[00:00:01] Next up,

[00:00:04] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast, where you get to go one on one with emerging Leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[00:00:22] The world has changed because of social media in many ways, it’s changed more than most of us care to admit. It’s had its effect on dentistry, too. Some people love it, some people hate it. For me, it’s a reality. What we’ve done for this show is to compile some of the best bits from dentists who really used social and used online reputation to enhance their careers. We’ll be hearing from the late, great and Máni, who was very loved on social and very loved in life. So that’s what I’m quite interested in. You know, the idea of you build it and they will come. Yeah, seems like you’ve done that a few times. But in that moment of waiting for people to come and some of the steps, some of the steps or some hacks that you would suggest for people who the people are going to do this again and again, set up practises from squat and have no patience. What are some of the some of the tricks, some of the things you should look out for? You know, cash flow. Give us give us some insight, because you’ve done this a few times. Yeah, I’ve done it one, two, three times. Yeah. So in terms of my recommendation to people is one is controlling of overhead. Be very careful in overhead control, controlling expenses especially. You’ve got to make a lot of sacrifice in your own personal life as well. You could control your own expenses because it’s going to be no income coming through. What’s very important in any if you start no score is what is your USPI? What is your differentiator compared to your locals? You know, and that’s going to be so important in terms of your marketing, because you can’t put blanket marking now in terms of I do X, Y or Z, because

[00:02:09] Every practise does X, Y, Z.

[00:02:10] You need to have A, B, C that no one else has got. And that’s so important. And I think from a very early stage, I’ve always done lots and lots of courses. You know, I did a lot of courses, implement anything. And I think that’s important. Building up a skill level that your local. Piers can’t deliver. You know, I still get even. And you were marketing that fact is that it is that in techniques that they weren’t doing.

[00:02:35] So, you know, implant

[00:02:38] Smarmy Covid type Ventry, cosmetic dentistry back then, that was. Yeah, tooth whitening procedure and interest in confident dental care was which yeah. That was probably about 20 or so inches of marketing back then was a totally different thing to different to today website. We had a website. We had a website. So we had a website at that time. I’m not sure. Prav, we we came in shortly after that. Yeah. He still had the practise then.

[00:03:04] I did.

[00:03:05] Yeah. Well, some of the hack smacks some of the marketing, so that goes on. So the first what he said was don’t overspend. Yeah. Keep, keep, keep an eye on keep your eye on the growth. Now, the key for me was to have one at least one patient a day. You know, if because that patient’s journey. Because you got all the time to devote them. Yeah. Just make sure that that patient’s journey is extempore. Yeah. Go ojito on it. To the point of view, you know, you’ve you know, when they come in the way they’re greeted, the way

[00:03:37] That we see we had tea, coffee and the drinks, et

[00:03:41] Cetera, we had the fridge. You know, find out a little bit about you. I mean, you say obviously, but but there’s lots of practises today that don’t do coffee and drinks. It seems obvious to you that it’s important to differentiate. Yeah. The USPI is not just your claims. It’s the differentiator in the clinic. You know, we had a clinic that you walked in. There was no corporate dentistry as such in those days. So having a brand, having a logo that was a thing, and having a clinic that was designed, you know, had an interior designer coming that was doing interior design. I mean, we just put Mongolia

[00:04:11] Up, you know,

[00:04:12] So we had colour themes in there. We had we look different. We stood out. And as someone said to me, wherever there’s dirt, it’s always money, you know. So even though we were looted, you know, a lot of people who had money had cash, money, and we had a lot of air travellers come to see us preparing for their weddings. We had that was quite big part of my market. We had a lot of people who knew how to run the local businesses or Covid sales, you know, so and they were coming in afterwards and treatment that they they weren’t getting within the unintrusive system. But were you leafletting or. We did. We had the website we used to leaflet market. We need to the Arndale Centre, which is a shopping centre. So we need to draw a district leaflet said we even had a little stand. So you even bought a stand in the on this little stand in there? Yeah. So and we were the one dentist doing this at that time. You know, it just wasn’t being done. And so we got patients come in. We offer the free consultation back then as well. Back then. Back then, I was fully private from day one. Fully private. Nice. Pretty private. And weird things like hygiene is in those days as well. It was we always saw the hygiene as being the rock in the clinic, because I measure how successful my clinic by habit’s my hygiene is. So because they’re the barometer, because if you got patients return regularly to see a hygiene issue, you know, you’ve got a health clinic.

[00:05:32] Yeah. So that’s always a strength. When I see quite high Jenice, I know my business is in trouble. So that’s why we always had hygiene is from day one, because they develop rapport, they develop the maintenance, the loyalty, you know. The other thing I would recommend is try and develop some small practise plan. So, you know, you get patients encouraged to join the clinic and a membership scheme, and it just helps them to maintain their loyalty and, you know, make it sort of worthwhile. It’s a benefit for them. It’s cheaper than if they paid outside. But again, it’s just an experience thing. You know, then when it came to selling this clinic, then you decided you wanted to let someone approach you. Who was able to. We we we sold it to a colleague of mine. Can I quickly just go here? Know. Yeah. We sold it to Josh and his associate Kings’ with me. Colophon is about two years below me. And the reason for selling it was actually at that time I was starting up Edgware Road. So because I wanted to go head more towards the West End because my dentistry. So why open up Edgware Road with them became a problem of logistics, just like being in two places. Simon, chod. Maybe the sort of the poster boy for for young, energetic dentists that really everything he touches seemed to seems to work. And then particularly, you know, he works hard on keeping his online reputation. You know, just perfect.

[00:07:01] The most important characteristic that I’ve tried to try to push out into this social environment is humility, because I’m very aware of my inadequacies and the fact that I am young and the fact that I shouldn’t be out there saying I’m God’s gift to dentistry or or anything. So I think trying to be humble is is the most important thing in the way that I carry myself, specifically online. And that’s why I. I never engage with anyone who wants to engage in a negative way on social media because there’s plenty of people wanting to engage with the negativity on social media, I’ve had people call me out for wearing too much Brylcreem and stuff like that. Dental I’m talking about here, not even just random us, but I used to get that. But yeah, I think that’s been my my the main pillar of if you’re saying how how do I want other people to I would like them to view me as humble, because traditionally I’ve had a lot of people, for whatever reason, assume that I’m arrogant without actually giving me the opportunity to engage with them and interact with them. I think, you know, you put yourself out there no matter who you are. You know, whether you come across as a polished character, you’ve obviously very successful at what you do.

[00:08:16] And people are going to take shots no matter who you are or what you do and whatever business you’re in. From your perspective, you say that, you know, what you want to get across is, is humility. What would you say your biggest weakness is? Ok, my my biggest weakness for myself is my thin skin. We talked about this before. My anxiety for me is my weakness and my inability to control that because I’m a complete control freak. I like everything to be exactly where it should be. I like every element of my life, whether it be family work, how I dress, how my health is. I want everything to be perfect, which is completely unrealistic. And that drives me to be better in everything that I do. Sure. But naturally, failure is is present in everything. And so that generates a lot of anxiety for me at the same time in the fact that when I when things don’t go right, I get very anxious about it. And so if you’ve got a particular example that you can share with those that made you feel particularly anxious, maybe a comment on Instagram or on your social media that that sort of fired you or like you said earlier, you don’t respond to negativity.

[00:09:26] You hold back and cope with it in a certain way. Yeah, I think the main negativity that I receive on social media is very rarely from the general public, even though I’m I’m quite present with regards to the general public, i.e. with the number of followers I have on Instagram and that sort of thing. I try to target my posts and my communications both towards professionals, but also to the general public to to help with communication with dentists and patients. But the main negativity that I’ve experienced on social media is from older dentists trying to cut me down, I guess is that is the best way to say it. For whatever reason, there’s been I can’t remember an exact specific right now, but whether it be my treatment, planning, doing lecturing from such a young age was a big one. When I first started, I started lecturing on on CEREC, on digital dentistry after using it for two years full time. That wasn’t enough for some people. I was at that point. I was teaching on in a very, very basic level. But I think this is how you use the machine. But if you do get it, I get on

[00:10:34] Worries about the teacher. Two years of

[00:10:36] Teaching. Absolutely. I mean, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t. I’ve been offered so many opportunities to talk on stuff that I don’t have sufficient knowledge on. And my anxiety would not let me do that, because if someone was to call me out, my constant worry is I’m going to get called out for not knowing enough, which is why I put so much effort into every single letter I do that if you speak to Meghan every even now, every morning, if I’m lecturing on the day, I’m up at like four thirty in the morning, putting the finishing touches to my lecture, because I don’t think it’s good enough. I don’t think any of my lectures are good enough. Even if you’ve delivered the same lecture before. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, obviously, the the ones that I get more frequently I’m much more comfortable with. But anything that is called advanced or. Yeah, basically all the advanced stuff that I do, because I now teach every single level to do with digital energy from non-user up to very, very experienced users, especially when there’s an advanced element to it. Even though I’ve given that exact lecture, God knows how many times I will always be adding little bits, making sure everything is current, making sure everything’s fresh, because I’m constantly concerned that I’m going to get called out for not knowing enough memory.

[00:11:46] Baloji, who left dentistry and then got into heavy content creation around the personal goals and development. What’s your advice? I mean, you’ve you’ve got this coaching career. You’ve got this burning desire to push you. What’s your advice for a regular dentist who’s who’s maybe maybe interested in, you know, whatever they’re interested in? It could be interested in sports or interested in cars or whatever. Should they think about, you know, the classic Gary V side hustle? Start talking about cars and sports on on the Internet. Make a business out of that and go into that. Or should they find a coach or. What should they do? What’s your advice to that person? It doesn’t really know what else they can do. I think is the way I kind of look at in the industry, there’s that one type of person who knows that they don’t know dentistry and then they just want out. Ok, there’s the type of person who’s within dentistry, but like, for example, there in the NHS right now, and they want to yet and they know they want to go into private practise, but they just don’t feel they’ve got the say they can. Yeah, they’ve got the skill or there’s that person. Then there’s another person who’s kind of an associate who wants to be a principal and they don’t know how to make that journey. I think generally it’s kind of around those three areas for the person to want to get out. Yeah. I’m asking you because you’ve gone out recently for the person who really wants to get out work.

[00:13:07] What are they going to find out about yourself? What is it that you love to do? How can you add value into into this world? Because it’s all about value, right? That that if you can I can add enough value into your life. Ok, then I become very important in your life. How is it that you you can add value and the way if you reverse engineer that, the way you can add value is by finding out what you love to do and what you’re good at. And if there’s a market for that, okay, like if you were to making paper aeroplanes, I don’t know, maybe maybe there’s some sort of avenue you can pursue there. But generally, like most people will have something that they really would like to do that they’re good at, but they just don’t have the confidence to know that it’s possible. And what I would say is I would say start it. And you’ve never lived in a day in an age when it’s easier to start a business. You’ve got YouTube, you’ve got Instagram, you’ve got Facebook, you’ve got Snapchat, you’ve got Pinterest, you’ve got Lington. Never been a better time to start. Get someone to help you see how it goes and then slowly tailor things off. Yeah, but don’t just carry on in dentistry because you have to, because you feel it’s the only way, because it’s not the only way.

[00:14:15] Just because you think it’s the only way to not get someone out there. Get me to someone who can show you what’s possible and goes like I’ve done it. And if honestly I could do it, then you could do the same. And I know that’s a cliché thing to say. I want to associate let’s say I’m the main breadwinner, so I’m paying the mortgage and all that. You can’t sell out like you did and have a year’s buffa. All right. I’m hating my job. I’m hating my nurse. I’m eating my patients. Litigation’s on me all the time. What’s your advice? Your first bit of advice? What should I do next? If you really wanted to get out like somebody gave me two options, OK, it is summer practise or remortgage my house. I went to the practise, you know, find a way to find a way because I had to burn bridges, because I knew that if I’m that if I’m still attached to the practise, I’ll get called and I’ll get this. I had to burn my bridges. Ok, so there was that option where I could have tried to remortgage my house. You know, whoever owns the house right now, they’re more than likely can have enough equity that they can pull out for Guinnevere. That was OK. And then, you know, you’ll find a way to make it by reason why things find a way that you’re an associate, you’re working, you’re working. So I’ve always worked. I’ve never worked more than four days a week.

[00:15:23] Why not? Because I spent one day chilling, because I always knew that I need if I wanted to do something else, I got to be in a place where I’m able to receive that. If I’m in a clinic for five days and then there’s my family, where am I going to receive that? Where am I going to get it from? I use the extra one or two days in my week to try new things on a social media agency. I was trading on trade forex commodities options. I used to do a lot, and I took the training courses, seminars, you know, meeting people. Why? Because I realised that in order for me to find what I really wanted to do, I got to be out there being ready to receive. So the best advice I can give is knock a day off. Yeah, everyone can afford to knock a day off. Why? Because they can work an extra one hour, two hours on the other days. They can make it happen. If you had to slice part of your income of, say, for example, you had to take a 20 percent haircut in income, you’d find a way to survive. Right. So, yeah. So just imagine that. And anyway, taking a day off doesn’t necessarily mean earning less. Exactly. It just means working more efficiently on the other means. Five, four, three, two and one. I’ve never done six days. Ok. As a dentist, no. And whenever I hear anyone who does do six days, I think it’s an error.

[00:16:25] But it’s right for some people like this. But if you took a day out and you solely use that day to just to just put yourself out there to think, to listen, we you Tuman, you know, like, you know, parents like my dad came my parents came from Uganda when I mean, chucked them out. They had no place. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, and then my daughter. So, yeah, I think that Tancredo liquid something in his pocket and he built up a massive business from that. I imagine if they had the gift of YouTube, imagine they had the gift of what we have. You know, it’s laughable that our parents never had what we had, but yet they managed to do so much. You know, we don’t have to work in a shop seven days a week to feed our family. There’s all the ways we can do it. So I think there’s so many ways, so many ways cut a day out and just start with totally agree with you that now is the best time to do something of a 100 percent. You know, with the with with just out town, so much so much resource these days of that that thing from olis million. One of the first places to really get on the social media wave with Facebook. So what was the first thing you did marketing wise to get some first few patients to do so?

[00:17:37] I think we did. We were looking at. I think we looked at radio ads as a great way to look at trying to bring people in

[00:17:44] At the at the get go.

[00:17:45] Yeah. From the get go. So, yeah, it was them into. I mean, you have interest. We had interesting conversation with various different people and actually. No, sorry, let me liar. I did we didn’t do radio at the beginning. We did that a little bit later. And what we did do is we just did some simple stuff, which was just basically a little bit of brand awareness around where we were. Do we just had a few posters lined up. We decided to do some stuff with the train stations and things like that around it as well. And that’s yeah.

[00:18:06] Leaflet drops. Yes. If you apers.

[00:18:09] We did a little bit of newspapers. Not as much as we hoped we would. But then I think when we did our first Invisalign open day back in January 2009, that’s what we use when we use railyards for the first time. And that was that was

[00:18:22] What really kicked us off after that.

[00:18:24] We’d opened in November 2008 and we had a beaver. It’s been a bit of a soft opening for two or three months leading up to that. But then after that January, it’s just kind of been we just went pretty much for a lot.

[00:18:34] Which station was it? Station called Radio City. The one with the tower? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what was it? It was it was it just like as you would expect anything?

[00:18:43] No, it was just when we when we did it, it was like a very specific advert for Invisalign Open Day that we were going to do business in a certain price and it was going to be on this day at this time. They wanted to come in and they had to sort of they had to call up and make an appointment to come

[00:18:56] And see us on that day. But you still do. Radio advertising went on

[00:19:00] Sporadically, sporadically. I think that, you know, there’s better ways to look at trying to spend that kind of car.

[00:19:05] Does it cost to advertise on the radio in Liverpool? To be honest. And cost as much

[00:19:09] Or as little as you want. All right. It’s like if you had a budget for five and upon a month, even going out for five in Panama, you want to spend a million quid, Amanda. They give you this as well to that as well. So, you know, it comes down to sort of it comes it just comes down to sort of how much you really want to look at trying to spend. It’s great for creating awareness. You know, we because we’ve been doing it for so long, you know, people do kind of recognise us on the radio.

[00:19:33] We have a jingle. Yes. Go sing it. No, I’m on a landline.

[00:19:40] Absolutely.

[00:19:42] Just it’s not happening. What’s your tagline? What’s your tagline? One smile at a time

[00:19:46] Where individual smiles have started. So we just rewind a little bit. The name Holly and I only she found out about this. But 10 years later, where it

[00:19:54] Came at the minimalist humans.

[00:19:56] Yeah, I think it was then. So I’m sure a lot of our listeners are in the same position as me. Would you just like to enlighten us? Yeah. Straighteners? Yeah.

[00:20:05] Is there a tag line to follow? No. No. Okay.

[00:20:08] Well now. So the name only. Words that come about. So my real name is Harambee. Very few people can really say properly first time around. And it’s easy to get this question. Sorry. Say that again. So what happened was, is that when I first when I was first born, my sister can say my full name properly. And I still blame my sister to this day for this. But so she read all the toys at the time and she started calling me all of them. So for my entire family, all I heard him call me Ali. And it’s just it’s just name. That’s the name that state. When I went to the school in Saudi, my name was Oliver saying it was just basically that’s what it really is, is like my yearbooks all have all of this thing and it’s quite something. But then when I when we moved when we moved back to England, I was like, you know,

[00:20:47] All of this thing does have a printer. Yeah, you’d be surprised.

[00:20:50] Right. But, you know, it’s when we moved back to when we moved back from Saudi, I moved into you moved back to Yorkshire. You know, it was made aware to us, as I maybe should start using a real name now and then. So I use my real name. And then that eventually just got shortened down year after year, down to like three letters does. So I went through sort of school and uni be known as dads, and that was fine. I had no problems about. But we’re coming up with names at the clinic, Sudar. She’s my business partner. Naturally, her nickname is Dosch and Expense. Yeah. So that made sense.

[00:21:19] How did you meet us? Again, we used to work in the same clinic together. She was OK. Yeah, she was.

[00:21:23] She was working in another clinic at the time, and it just came to a head where we just felt that we just need to do our own thing. And it just you know, we we have a great business relationship and it works really, really well. We’re business partners first and then we’re friends seconds, which I think works quite well for both of

[00:21:38] Us, to be honest. You must be nice before she does exist, right? Yeah, she does.

[00:21:43] She’s there on our website for those of those. Yeah. No, it’s it’s quite it is quite interesting. I get called Ohly and also some sort of Jekyll and Hyde thing that I have seen

[00:21:53] Ulda, Colonel Sanders of the brand somehow here. And listen, I’m the sons of Enlightened. I’m astonished does more than I do in light of the Prav world will

[00:22:03] Attest to that. You play more table tennis. Yeah.

[00:22:06] Somehow I didn’t do it on purpose.

[00:22:08] Now, did you say. No, it’s definitely it’s definitely you know, it’s you know, we both have different lives. You know, now she’s she’s got a lovely husband and she’s got two at the time. When we first opened up, she had two really young boys. Karen, her youngest had I think was probably less than a year old, I think, when we opened up. So her time, I mean. Her time she wanted is maximise between her family and the clinic, so she had no time for any other opportunities that all dash may have looked to try and afford. And so basically, I was just you know, it was just me. I didn’t I don’t have any sort of dependents. I don’t have any family. And it was just basically, you know, whenever one of these things kind of came about, when an opportunity came about, I’m like, yes, I’ll just say yes. And we’ll work out how to do it later. Which is kind of when it’s happening

[00:22:48] In the middle of the Suzzy, sort of the suzzy takes care of the staff. Yeah. Issues. She takes care of a lot of the patient contacts as well. Are you involved with the staff matters? Does she was literally handle that? You know,

[00:23:00] One of the things that one of the challenges that we’ve had as a business, as we’ve grown, is that we’ve grown from an idea into an actual business. And, you know, the process of being a business is this is that you need to be able to look at delegating things in and amongst yourselves and

[00:23:16] James Golnik and see how much on social anymore. But at the time when when Facebook started, he was maybe the most influential dentists’ on there. He was all over it. I think he made an active decision to step back.

[00:23:31] What was your first marketing campaign that drove patients through the process? Ok, so I’ve done a few done lots of different marketing campaigns, some of which didn’t work. I actually had a good majority to work. I mean, the the best one that’s worked is actually going around to every single local business in the area and just saying hi. So I went to every single business in the area and went to I went to the hairdressers. I might see beauticians. I went to the investment bankers and said, just to let you know, I’m James. Are local dentists around the corner? I’d love to take care of you. You get 10 percent off any treatment if you come see us, come and say hi. So I got to know the community as close as I could do. And at that stage, there were less big chains. There were still big chains like Starbucks and stuff, but there were less big ones. So I went in everywhere. And so they got to know us. We also put the best investment ever had in marketing. It sounds a bit crazy as a board. It’s been a broad industry. We’ve got a really narrow street in Berlin, pedestrianised tree, and at lunchtime it’s heaving. So we just put an abort out with that. And it was easy stuff to try and stop people going. Have you had your mouth checked for mouth cancer? And it’s like were was enough to stop them. Yeah. And the other thing that worked really well is apples. So we used to give our apples with stickers of bolade on.

[00:24:50] So it was a theme which is there at lunch time, we gave out 250, 300 apples all for free. And it was just awareness, OK, I’m getting an apple. Why am I getting apples? They stop and they look at us taking as a dentist. They are in my head. This dentist is purple. It’s called Bolon Wambo Lane. And then six months later, they break it to the guy who wasn’t there, then to somewhere, and then they remember it all. So it’s just getting them to know about their local area. Do you remember patients walking through your practise and saying, you were the guy that gave me the apple or. Yes. Yeah, it was it was brilliant. And it was also at that stage, every new every patient. I knew all their names because they only had six. I know all about them. But it has been brilliant. And there was one great thing about being somewhere for so long is that I get I get to see them when they were new city, really vibrant, excited, happy about their life, get to see them. And then I see their partners and then I see their kids. And then sometimes then I see the girlfriends and then I see the second partners. And there’s one patient. They’ve actually seen all four of his wives now. So slowly, they obviously gets divorced and each one and then the new one comes along. So I get to see them all. I make sure they’re healthy.

[00:25:58] Talking of divorce. Ok. Ok, Mara Khawaja, I have a lot of respect for she’s started a mental health sort of content and something called the mental health ninja. I believe on most of the platforms you can find her. So did you find yourself in a position of overwhelm and had to implement some of this stuff? And that’s why you want to now talk about it. So what happened?

[00:26:30] Yeah, definitely. I would say it’s a journey, really. So my first couple of experiences straight out, V.T. were really negative. I was working in toxic environments

[00:26:43] And

[00:26:43] Expand OLMA. So the first couple of principles, I had really focussed on teaching in a shaming way. So they’d come and they’d watch my crown, perhaps, for example, and then they’d criticise the crown Prav in front of a patient. Yeah. And they’d take photos of my work, but not just mine, you know, the whole team. And and then they’d be criticising those those things in front of us. So I went into work feeling very panicked and feeling very uncomfortable and already not really knowing my place when I’d come out of Dental school and really. You want your point anyway?

[00:27:29] Exactly.

[00:27:30] You know, you’re not quite sure where you fit in, what can you give to your patients? I’m not quite sure yet because you don’t have the experience. So it was it was really negative. I’ve call it bullying and harassment, but that’s how I would label it now. But at that time, actually, I normalised it so well. You know, they’re trying to help me. But, um, and maybe this is normal. This is how how people are taught.

[00:27:56] So I Dental school that that the that’s that way, too, isn’t that.

[00:28:01] Yeah. To an element of 2010 from

[00:28:04] Kenya writes a bit different to when they call for armament than school. That being a

[00:28:09] Teacher came

[00:28:10] From some of the teachers anyway. Yeah, I can think of. Do you think the bullying.

[00:28:15] Directed to you in particular, is it because you’re a woman and were they any other sort of male vitis at the time or associates that were treated any differently? Did you feel like you were singled out at all?

[00:28:30] In my experience, so personally, there were a few other men there, but they were senior. So the conversations were different them. So I think in part, perhaps me being female and younger, that the principal could felt the authority to speak in a certain way. But I think it goes to show it really reflects the principal kind of attitude and his own psychology. And, you know, someone who wants to be little, who wants to tear someone down probably has been torn down as well. You know, and he’s got an interesting psychology as well. So that was my first few experiences of coming out of Dental

[00:29:14] School at the time and recognise it for

[00:29:16] That. I didn’t recognise. And actually I stayed in that position for a cop for about six months. This is after V.T.. And looking back now, I wouldn’t bet I felt that I had a job and I felt I wasn’t really sure if there was much else out there. And like I said, I normalised a lot of this toxic behaviour. And then I went from that to a marriage as well. That was like psychologically abusive. And I came out of that just feeling, not really feeling lost, not really knowing who I was and really looking inwards to find ways of progressing and to become a, you know, more calm, peaceful person, to reclaim that I feel like I lost.

[00:30:13] Zainab Al Mukhtar, one of the people who does beautiful composite work, beautiful, you know, facial aesthetics. What I love most about her is when she got onto social without an agenda, without reading up all about it. And, you know, the authenticity so often the thing that works best on social media was the thing that that, you know, shone through.

[00:30:37] But you’re right. You know, social media and it’s had a huge influence. And I would say that it is put the word out there is it has essentially been a huge source of advertising. That’s it really. That’s been huge. People that know where you are, who you are, what you’re up to, the quality of your work, and it reaches far and wide. So definitely has been a big influence. I didn’t start it thinking it would be, but it has.

[00:31:02] When was the point? What was the like, the turning point where you thought, crikey, this Instagram stuff is really working? Was it was it after a month, a year, six months? What was the

[00:31:13] Point where

[00:31:15] It was about two years ago? So I first started my Instagram about five years ago, four or five years ago or six. Maybe now I’m losing track of time. And but I think two years ago, when I really noticed and I just I started posting more. So when I first started, I was just posting sporadically here and there. Nothing really consistent. It was making a bit of a difference, but it was a small circle that it was exposed to. And then the following slowly, slowly grew. And as it grew, the enquiries grew. And I got busier. I found it harder to post, but because I saw that it was helpful and because patients would come in and say, I’ve seen this photo, can you tell me more about it or I’ve seen what you wrote in your caption? It was actually really informative and I hadn’t ever come across comfortable. And I thought, OK, captions make a difference. Let’s explain this properly. And I felt quite responsible about what I was sharing. So it just started to think more about what to share. And I’m doing it whenever I could. And I just gradually noticed that it was working. You know, patients would come and mention it. And we have a feedback. We have it in our registration forms and the practises. Where did you hear about the practise? I’d see Instagram a lot. And I thought, well, actually, this is actually really influential. So, yeah, about two years ago.

[00:32:30] And did that change your focus of how he was going to approach Instagram? Like if you got a strategy, hashtags of pictures, right hand side dentistry, middle column life style, that sort of thing.

[00:32:42] Have you got a strategy or. I know that’s like noses and lips, left hand side and things like

[00:32:50] That just come about by chance or review the craft of Instagram and hacked the algorithm?

[00:32:57] I definitely haven’t had any algorithm. I’ve been hearing that there is an algorithm and I don’t quite know what it means. But what happened is I was just posting without any themes, and I had a lot to post, lots of content. And I sit there and think, oh, I don’t know which one to push. I post this one on this one and I look at my page. It just looks a bit messy and. You know, being a being an aesthetic dentistry or aesthetic medicine, you are all about being visual about things. And I thought, I really want to make this look neat. So and I’m doing lots of different things. And I don’t know how people will understand really how woman and posting teeth in the next minutes a nose and then the next minute something else. And then randomly I’ll put something miscellaneous. And I just thought, why don’t I just do a column one to beach and actually looks nicer? And I just carried on doing it.

[00:33:44] Wow. And in terms of business now, where does the majority of your new patients come from?

[00:33:50] They still Instagram

[00:33:51] Word of mouth. So families now. So it’s the sisters and the moms and, you know, and it’s it just grows like that. Instagram is still been a big part of it because it’s reaching people further out who live far away. But I’m now seeing lots and lots of siblings and friends of friends and so on. And as far as even, which is really nice, if a Dental student comes in shadows, they’ll bring their mom next time. And it’s really nice. It’s just growing in that way.

[00:34:19] And how much personal content do you put on there? Like real life stuff? Do you do? Do you put your personal life what you’re up to going here, here on holiday shopping there?

[00:34:29] Sort of. I didn’t used to. I thought of it as this is just a professional page. I’ll just show my professional aspect and nothing really personal. And then friends of mine said, you know, it would be nice if you just shared a bit about used. I think people would like to see it. And I ask patients if they’d come in and I’d get to know them a bit, etc. They’d mentioned Instagram and then they’d say, Oh, I saw you were doing this or that. And I thought, yeah, what do you think about do you think I should share more personal stuff? And they’d say, Yeah, I think it’s really nice for people to connect and see what you’re about. So I had the encouragement and just thought, right, I’ll do a little snippets. I’m still quite reserved. And it’s just still very much little snippets. But I think slowly, slowly, I’m willing to share a little bit more with time, but it will always stay. It still is predominantly a professional page, and it will always, I think, just be snippets

[00:35:16] To show built a whole tribe online and on social Dental Dental tuples is bigger than most other things. And these people who sit and say actually we’ve asked the government are they’re not listening. Listen, government’s never going to listen because it’s an extrinsic problem. We as dentists have super values within us. We want to deliver top quality care for our patients. We want to look after people. Ultimately, that’s why you went to dentistry. And the money comes as a side effect of that, because you do this, you’re building trust with another human being. All these things. Right. I want to build a community of the right values, people, people who want to help each other, because you know what? That community of dentists in the future is going to go out to the public and engage with the public to change the face of dentistry as a profession, to say we are not the money grabbers and fast car driving people. We are interested in you. There’s a whole you know, we’re building this pathway. And if we can engage the public, guess what’s going to happen? A real momentum boost for the profession. But you need a really powerful community. So beyond education and motivating people, it’s a bigger picture thinking. Why do you think why do you think dentistry suffers with the disunity that we sometimes see? It suffers from the disunity that we see now and then is because we’ve never touched down to the values.

[00:36:38] If you think about dentists. Dentists were taught to deal with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And ultimately, they think like that. They think small, they think detail. They think that bigger picture thinking is missing. True leadership in dentistry is thinking leadership is here’s a vision, here’s a vision. Let’s go towards it. What’s his name? I have a dream. Who kind of sat there? And that was the King Luther King. And there were thousands of people there. Do you think those thousands of people were there because they saw Martin Luther King’s dream? No, they were there because they had the same dream as him and their values aligned. And he said, you’ve got that dream I have here. I have a vision. This is where we will go. Dentistry needs that. Dentistry is disunited because all these people with different values are not being brought together under one vision, under one mission. And that vision is very clear. It’s we’re looking after patients. How we look after them is different. And what people end up doing because of the detail. They start looking at how you do something and what you do and how you do something and what you do and what house maybe different or what’s maybe different or why is the same. And there’s nobody who has worked hard enough to bring that y together in one side of it is because we’re interested in patient care and we seem to be interested in patient care, sometimes gives you the licence to be rude to each other because we’re so worried about the patient.

[00:37:58] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, but that’s the how. Yeah. I’m rude to you because you’ve done patient care y the way I wouldn’t do the patient. Yeah. Yeah, right. And then I think you didn’t skin the cat the way I skin the cat. But if I sit there and say, listen, help inspire connecter with three powers are I’m going to help that. And I’m going to inspire them and motivate them to look after their health. And I’m going to connect them with other patients who are like that. I mean, how now we’re thinking from the same hymn sheet, and if we sing from the same hymn sheet, we’re going to say it’s fine. You scan that a different way. But you know what? Brilliant. And obviously, I think UK society doesn’t celebrate success as much as I do an American or Indian or other societies. If you’re doing well, UK society likes to almost bring people down who are rising up. I’ve seen this differently. And do we celebrate success better? Do we celebrate that someone’s done something well for patients? Is this an initiative we should take? In fact, I’ll put it out to you, your products and lighten the composite use with the enamel.

[00:38:59] They’re going out to changing patients lives, aren’t they, all day long? Can we use this as an initiative to say, how did this change a patient’s life? I don’t know. But we think there’s some power amidst all this. You know, certainly with tubules that purpose driven endeavour. Yeah. People can see when something’s purpose driven, New Jersey well with the concrete with the turbine group. Surprising, correct? You know, there’s so many niches that social seems to fill. Women make babies. They have a connexion with human beings that no man can ever have, you know, no matter how good a father you are. I’m sure the connexion with in utero is, you know, surpassed and they’ve created something. We don’t create a lot, really, apart from this. So actually, we probably look for mechanical things to nurture. Yeah. So whether that’s a or a car or aeroplane, we want to have something. We want to have a relationship where they want to have experiences with it. I mean, I put my car into its pyjamas at night. You know, it’s almost like a child, you know, the car Covid goes on, really? And I know people who kiss their cars goodnight and you niftiest fixing cars. And now I’m terrible. I like engineering. Yeah. And obviously, you know, having placed a few implants and stuff, you understand the thought of that side of it.

[00:40:20] And I try and watch YouTube things, but I know there’s lots of people who are much better at it than I am and understand it more. Luckily, electric cars are quite easy to understand without an internal combustion engine. But no, I’m not tinkerer changing gears. I remember, no pun intended. The first time I met you, I think, was at Perry’s practise, I think in and go in cities nearby. Yeah, he’s just bought a new car, which I helped him with a 911 GTZ. I’m sure he won’t mind me saying so. You really worked hard for that lovely car, whatever. But be a nice guy. What I remember about you back then was and I see it, it’s common practise now. But back then you had you you would talk to your patient and your nurse would be typing, typing away. And I remember even back then thinking this guy is going to be really good as a boss. He’s going to be able to inspire his people because he was so into what she was doing. Remember that? Are you’re the boss. Am I good boss? I think the boss being a leader has so many facets to it. And that’s what we’re looking at nowadays. And, you know, we’re talking through quite a lot about leadership skills. And, you know, we helped grow the study club from one to 50 and we created Leaders within those groups and leadership.

[00:41:34] I mean, you must do it with enlightened is about passion. And you’ve got passion. You’re halfway there if you believe in what you do, if you’ve got a it’s a mission statement or something in your mind that you want to do, which is, you know, we want to really help people. We want the best practise in England. We want to do things really well. I want my team. People are rewarded and everyone to be happy. You know, it’s a basic kind of premise of what we’re about. People can get behind that. Yeah. Who doesn’t want to be happy, you know? And I’d love to, you know, double my nurse’s wages and give them a great life and be a successful practitioner and and change lives and smiles, you know. But then, you know, we’re all human beings and we all falter. So sometimes we better than others. And I noticed the really successful Dental, if they’re so disciplined, I wish I was a bit more disciplined. But people like Mark Hughes and Rajul and Jobar, you see these guys and all you had earlier on, they get up in the morning and they do the work that they’re machines. Yeah, I’m probably having not been married and no kids. I’m still probably an overgrown teenager a little bit.

[00:42:31] And, you know, and haven’t had that drive. I think when you have children, the drive to kind of do something better for them comes in. So I think I’m a reasonably good leader, but I could be better. You practise in in village. It is, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s our old well, it’s sort of a it’s a Roman little village. Different dwelling on city. Yeah. Well, and gotten sort of a come about from the new town, the old Whelans really charming and full of history. Right. I remember when you open that and I remember the early days, you were you were very worried and quite rightly so. We were all. How far in was it when you thought, I don’t need to worry anymore? Three years. Three years? Yeah. I think the you know, again, you know, we’re dentists. We’re not really business people unless you’ve got that kind of family background, which I haven’t had. So you naively go into it thinking, I’m just going to make a nice practise and be nice to people. I know how much it’s going to cost to build. I know much I need to earn to live, which was not a lot for me because on my own. And I thought, right, this is going to work. And it did work, but I didn’t realise it was actually that overheads. And you and if you talk to associates now and you show them the overheads, which I like to do, because it’s good that they know about these things, but they’re shocking our roads.

[00:43:46] A shocking in dentistry and whether that’s VAT, whether it’s the exchange rate, whether it’s staff costs, whatever, you know, pensions. So it really had to borrow my way out quite a few times in the first two years just to keep going. And I was fortunate, again, whether it’s friends, family, banks, whatever, to to have the opportunity to do so. But if they hadn’t supported me, the business would have gone. And you didn’t go in with a giant building and, you know, no small place. The two surgeries small little place bought the freehold wasn’t. Expensive. Well, you can you can see where, you know, some people overstretch on, you know, on size and on. Yeah, I think we all should. We have our dreams of what we want. But actually, sometimes you have to break down the dream into little pieces sometimes. And there are huge risks in running a private practise. There really are. You haven’t got squat from school as well. And what would you say? What would you say are your top tips, like if someone was going to do that? Some of the thinking about doing that right now, what are your top tips? I think one is have a good surplus of money in more than you think, probably double more than you think.

[00:44:48] I think look after your health, because when everything goes to pot and being men, we just throw ourselves into it. So, you know, the week goes on eating badly. You don’t exercise because you feel a bit of a martyr to it. Interest you away people money. You think I can’t I shouldn’t be happy because, you know, I’m not in the place where I should be. So you sort of demonise yourself. Yeah. So I spoke for two years. I was just my worst enemy and didn’t look after myself and still, you know, has effects. Now, I’m not super healthy yet. And I remember going to speare and sort of nicking the bread from lunchtime to have it dinner, you know, and getting buses and paid for a year. I paid for. And on the overdraught, I had to steal the bread. I know, but it was priorities and I speare changed my life and it without speare that practise wouldn’t have succeeded for social. Baylee, today’s dentistry updates. I know loads of people enjoy those daily updates that that he does. His podcast is one not to be missed. Trials and tribulations that you go through with that podcast. One of my personal favourites. But so fast forward to when you bought a practise. So yeah. So the guy I was working for in Clacton, he decided to sell up.

[00:46:03] The new voice came on board. They were very business orientated. You know, I was the lead associate, so, you know, and I could do anything that I wanted. Why? I was doing seventeen thousand years a year. All right. So was just on my own. The average, I think, is about six and a half thousand per person. Me how when I actually left, they had to actually replace me with three dentists. Were you working ridiculous hours? No. Basically, every single appointment that I had was effectively like ten minutes. And then you just catch up on the time and make it up somehow. But yeah, my my days were between 50 and 70 patients a day out here every day. And then at the weekends, I’d actually do all the nursing homes in Denver in the whole of Dental District Council. I did every single nursing home, 32 of them. Danger is extractions visiting. Yeah. Yeah, from one to the next to the next next. Wow. Yeah. So then you save some money by this time, so. Yeah. So I buy a practise. Yes. Mom and dad came over obviously for graduation and stuff. And that was really, really nice. That’s when I actually you know, again, it was that second head and wave of the love I’ve got for the university now, because I walked in and I remember the dean of the Dental School in the last six months.

[00:47:19] He said, Right, Baish, we’re going to give you a hundred and fifty quid a month for the science of war. And he goes, well, you’re going to tell me what you’re going to use it for. Is it? Oh, I’ve got these two people that to me for that to pay for it. He goes, give me the check back because I want to see you in the student union every Friday. I’ve been a couple of drinks. At least that’s what you start off with. Whatever’s left, you can do what you want with it, you know? And that was lovely. My graduation. I didn’t have the money to pay for it. So the guy was running the whole graduation thing. He said, we just forgot to charge you. I went in the day after, you know, to actually say to the guys that the accommodation office said, look, guys, I haven’t got the money, but here’s a self-willed affidavit, you know, appeared as soon as I got the money. Now it’s been comfortable and it just, you know, and I just thought, well, you know, mom and dad were here. My friends gave me their credit cards, you know, just spend whatever you want. But it’s fine. It’s fine. We were all we’re all doing this together, you know, so it was just fantastic. He is absolutely brilliant, you know, but when mom and dad came, I took them over to Clacton and said, look, this is where I’m going to be staying.

[00:48:22] And so funny enough, I’m staying with the boss that I stayed with them for three years and I just saved, saved and saved and saved. So within four years, I actually paid off 110 grand and I bought two houses, paid off, paid off all the cousins and people who everyone had a ledger, actually, and I paid off every year. Funny enough, one guy, he gave me eighty pounds and I phoned him six years later. I just happened to remember his number off the top of my head. And I phoned him. I said, Hey, buddy, how’s it going? He was Daesh. And I was like, yeah, you know, how the hell are you, man? So, yeah, I’m just glad you got the same number. And we had a bit of a catch up. And he goes, What’s going on? I said, listen, I’ve called you for a reason. He goes, well. And I said, I borrowed eighty quid off you in two thousand and this is like eight or something like that about the trip back, you know. So, you know, I don’t forget if someone helps me out, if someone does something, it doesn’t matter how big or small. That’s not you know, that’s not what I’m about. It’s more about the gesture, the thought, you know, and being human.

[00:49:28] I guess the message is from your dad, right, that last day.

[00:49:30] Yeah, that’s what I was just thinking about right now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So then the Dental ity that I saw being built, the state of the art private looking thing was when you’d moved site. Right. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So you had it. Yeah. That wasn’t the previous one wasn’t called Dental that, you know, so it was called Hawksbill Dental practise. It was nearby. It was just around the corner sort of thing. It was the usual Dental practise sort of setting the stage and downstairs on one side, funeral directors, on the other hairdressers behind them. Through a dark corridor, you go up to the Dental practise, which just thinks it looks horrible. So I left my associate job because I didn’t like the way things were run, you know, and it was no fault of the guys who took over. They were there to make money, which is fair enough, you know, for people to have a business. Some people do a lot of dentistry. And I just thought I’m going to be horrible here, you know, and I’m going to fall out with these guys. Big task before that happens. Just Gole, because they paid their goodwill. At the end of the day, they don’t need grapple thing you associate, you know. So I just got off I go. And the only practise that I could afford was just one that I bought. I always wanted to be in Hertfordshire. Why? Because I’ve got family in East London. Sorry. And Mum’s family’s all in West London. It’s a little nice halfway house sort of thing going, you know, keep in touch with everyone. So I moved there when I I sorry when I bought up.

[00:50:55] And the change in name was very, very personal to me because I’d been through a lot through through our university and all the rest of it spoke with a lot of people were just just disgruntled Leaders, unhappy with dentistry. And I think generally that’s the way the feeling is. You know, dentists and lot can be a happy profession, you know, and I just thought, you know what, I want to change the way people think I want. And not only, you know, patients, but your team and, you know, your peers and your colleagues and other dentists, you know, because everyone has something that goes not according to plan at some point in their lives. So I just want to change the way they think. Word mentality came up in my mind because I actually just took them off and put a D on it. And yeah, that was it. And that’s how Dental. So when I when I saw it, it was a triple shopfront. Yeah, I remember that. Like the biggest shock I’d ever seen on the High Street and like modern. And there were people. Drilling away to with people working, and I said to him, wow, look, as far as I really know, how have you let you’ve gone for it, man? I guess have I? I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’ve definitely gone for it. And he goes, I you know, I just think you need to build it and they’ll come around. I remember exactly what words were. To the Payman actually said to me, close. I don’t mean to be OK. I’m here to help you.

[00:52:23] Yeah, I remember Yadu six years BMW, they drove into a parked off at the back and said, Vash, with all due respect, you’ve got a cornershop, you just got a bottle of freaking FESCo extra. How are you doing? And I said I said, yeah, I know it’s it’s big, but that there’s a reason for this. And he goes, yeah, but you know what? This question needs to be stocked. You can’t have an empty desk, extra newsagent’s like, you know, he’s about five foot by five foot. Right. So everything in one place within arm’s reach. Right. He was you can’t just have a dedicated corner in this open shop floor for the rest of it. But to your credit, how long did it take before you filled it up? It was full properly fully running within two years. Yeah. So it just you know, the practise went from strength to strength, and it was all to do with just being open and honest and trustworthy, you know, in a small town. Good news travels fast. So does bad. Know, I think you could look Veliko to the psychic and that maybe the best connector in the whole profession. And a big part of that is his online presence and reputation. The guy who knows more dentists and than anyone else that I know I had the privilege of being in veti with Saki’s have watched that journey from the beginning of his, you know, post qualifying career. It is so many different things. You you work as an implant ologist in lots of different practises. The drop in that brooming sort of.

[00:53:56] Yeah. Peripatetic. Yeah. Is that what I used to do that I don’t do like not much anymore. Funny story is, is that, you know, when the recession kicked in 2009 and you know, I’d meet a lot of my friends that did implants and they’d be like, yeah, it’s a bit slow. It’s really hit us and I’m not doing that anymore. How about you? And I’d be like, I was busy as hell, you know, I was like, no, I’m it’s great. It’s you know, it hasn’t affected me at all. The difference was, is that they sat in one room, in one location, in one clinic area. That area. Yeah. Whereas with me, I was like I got off my arse and I actually found the work. And a lot of people said, oh, yeah, you know, do you like what you do going around, whatever? It’s like, you know what? At least I was busy. At least the money was coming in and I made lots of connexions and networks and. And then when, you know, when we opened our practise stuff, I started reducing, although I didn’t want to travel so much back then. I used to even go up to Scotland. I used to do all on fours. Really? Yeah. I did a couple of even Fellin Haly up there in Cherry Bank when I was you know, we go to Gleneagles every year, one of these timeshare things like that. And even once I was there for a week, she’s like, can you come over?

[00:55:16] So, you know, I was going to ask you, though, you you you’ve visited lots of practises. You can see lots of different ways people work. What are some of the takeaways? I mean, what are some things you learnt that you then put into your own practise?

[00:55:29] Well, one thing I learnt was the bigger the practise, the harder it is. I mean, it’s obviously just common sense, but it was exponentially harder because you’d have to keep everyone busy and you’d have lots of, you know, staff turnover. It was it just seemed a lot harder. And on the face of it, people look at these practises from the outside and think they’re running smoothly and whatever. However, when you’re on the inside, it doesn’t it’s not always like that. And that’s why we did something small. So when there’s a recession, when times aren’t great or there’s less patients coming in, I don’t have to worry. I still remember shortly after setting up my practise with with Dominique, my dad got ill. I had a phone call from my sister. I was actually at a bank board meeting. And of course, that’s like you got to come right now. I literally took the next flight out and I was away from our new clinic for seven weeks on the trot. And I was all I was thinking about is like, God, what’s going to happen? I’m the one doing the high end implant, you know, treatments, thousands of pounds, and I’m not there. The nice thing was that the rent is low. It’s a small practise. There’s not a huge sort of monthly expenditure on staff wages and all that. There is, but it was manageable. Now, if I had a much bigger sets up and I remember talking to several people and they’re like, you know what, you’re so lucky you’ve done something small. And whilst you say, I was ambitious and wanted to open up multiple surgeries. That’s my comfort zone. I’m happy like that. And I’m happy also working and placing implants for other people, which I still do to this day.

[00:57:14] Nicole Sondergaard, Sa’id Hashmi. You know, Nicole and she’s been involved in so many different things in the treatment, particularly strong on the social side and side to this pretty easily, you know that the charity work around the industry. The boy who went to being a dentist, I mean, what is it about you that, you know, I didn’t stick to be an artist either, but what is it about you?

[00:57:41] I think it goes back to Prav. First question to Nick. What’s your background? My my family been in business for a hundred years. My granddad was a banker. My father was was a banker is he’s retired now and not the banker in the sense of in this country. So they were in the exchange of currency and business. And I grew up in meetings in our living room that was always meeting and variety of people coming and going and asking questions about, you know, business and doing business. I have a passion for that. I definitely have a passion for business and I love dentistry. I’ve got so much respect for dentistry. Dentistry has given me so much that any other occupation wouldn’t have given me otherwise. And I wouldn’t for a second say I wouldn’t stop being a dentist. I love doing dentistry, but I like to do dentistry while I’m enjoying it. I like to have financial freedom. I like to go to the clinic, do the treatment, just because I enjoy doing that, not because I’m dependent on the money that is going to be made from that that treatment. Not everybody has to have have that luxury. And it hasn’t been easy for me. I’ve been working seven days a week for the past 15 years to to achieve that. I auditioned recently, cut down on my days. You can tell he’s a grafter because he says work four days a week and then you’ve got another three days a week to work.

[00:59:02] But to be honest, if I gave you a billion tomorrow, would you still draw teeth?

[00:59:08] I would and you know, and I tell you why one of my cousins is actually a fine, you know, son of a billionaire family in Iran, and he’s a dentist. He’s one of the reasons I actually do dentistry. He does still practise. They’re all over 50 factories. He’s still practise. And I saw one of his patients recently in London because he would only send his patient to me because they moved to London. And I was up my hands were shaking, just amanat not to make a mistake. I had to do a you know, a very deep feeling. So, yes, because, you know, it’s not about the money. I definitely know from my background I know more money does not bring you happiness. Hundred percent. It just doesn’t. If I do have a family, I’ve got kids. I would never, ever work seven days. And I don’t recommend anybody doing that. But in the same time, everybody’s different. I’m just not going to sit there every night watching Netflix until I fall asleep. It’s not my character. Some people like that. And they might they might do that. Nothing wrong with it, you know? Everyone is different.

[01:00:08] Victoria Holden, one of the best moderators out there. I’ve been moderated by myself. Very fair. Definitely involved and interested.

[01:00:19] I limit the time I spend on social media to about 15, 20 minutes a day. I don’t spend a lot of time on Facebook for various reasons. So that part of it doesn’t take an awful lot of time, really. Like you moderate that forum in 15 minutes a day. Yeah, well, people might say that it’s not maybe a very well moderated forum. I know the criticism that comes up, and that’s maybe the reason why. But yeah, I mean, I’ve done a lot of moderating since about 10 years ago, because that’s not how moderate the GDP you pay for it. So I’ve been involved in that for quite a while, actually. And I think generally people behave OK on forums. There’s not that much stuff that needs moderated. You might get an expression upset that somebody is offended by a post or something that’s inappropriate for the self, promoting their own causes a bit too much or whitening is getting promoted and in fact, et cetera. And we tend to deal with those and then and then move on. Really? Yeah, it doesn’t it doesn’t take a lot of time. Not really wants to sit down on Facebook, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling through the threads. I’ll go on and have a quick look, see if anything’s been selected from the forums and then all.

[01:01:36] Well, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode of our social media Leaders, the compilation of the best bits that we could gather together on their social media journeys. The next part will be next week. We broken up into two episodes. I hope you look forward to that season. This is Dental Leaders,

[01:01:56] The podcast, where you get to go one on one with emerging Leaders in dentistry. Your host, Payman Langroudi, I’m Prav Solanki. Thanks for listening, guys.

[01:02:11] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both for me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it

[01:02:23] If you did get some value out of it. Think about subscribing and if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it, too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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