Prav and Payman are finally reunited this week to welcome Dr Slaine McGrath to the show.

Spending too much time in the dentist’s chair can be enough to put youngsters off dentistry for life. But the opposite is true for Slaine, who was inspired into the profession following a dental mishap early in life.

Slaine talks about the pros and cons of being one of Insta’s most prominent dentists, how she landed a job at a top Harley Street clinic just two years after graduating.

She also explains the magnetic pull of London and reveals her plans for a new clinic opening soon in Edinburgh.


In This Episode

01.50 – Backstory
04.53 – Women in dentistry
06.36 – Work-life balance – a day in the life
10.18 – Dental school
12.51 – Into practice
19.47 – Social marketing
29.06 – Engaging with followers
32.22 – Lessons from top clinics
34.53 – Slaine’s vision
39.37 – Thoughts on Edinburgh
41.40 – Dark days and black box thinking
49.03 – Slaine’s top tips
56.15 – Last days and legacy

About Slaine McGrath

Slaine McGrath qualified Trinity College Dublin and worked in the maxillofacial department of Galway University Hospital in Ireland before heading for the bright lights of London.

She spent time on Harley Street with Rüh dental, where she focused on Invisalign and cosmetic treatment.

Slaine sits on the British Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry committee and is a member of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry.

She is currently embarked on setting up a brand new practice in Edinburgh.

[00:00:00] I think the people close to you are the people who are going to support you, and you always have to remember that, but you know you are. You have family and your friends who are going to support you in it. I think the harshest criticism comes from other dentists. And I think as long as I think you’re confident in what you have posting that you feel like you have done your best for that patient. And it’s very hard for somebody to criticise it. I mean, they can say, OK, that line angle is not perfect. But so what? Because it’s a learning curve for all of us. But I think as long as you know that you’re not posting a case where it was a young, an 18 year old who needed ortho and you put in 20 porcelain veneers, you know you’re posting your best work and you think you did right by that patient, then what? What’s the concern? Somebody can criticise that. It’s not perfect, but you know, nobody’s perfect.

[00:00:52] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[00:01:10] Sometimes in life, you come across someone who you connect with straight away and then you get to know them a bit better and you realise everyone is connecting with this person straight away. Our next guest, Slaney, McGrath, Stephanie, that kind of person for me. I came across her maybe three or four years ago, really. When Instagram took off, Stephanie’s career was taking off at the same time, and since then, I’ve got to know her a lot better. Worked with her a few times, had her lecture at some of our events and always been really wonderfully surprised by the level of openness and telling the whole story which you don’t always get from teachers. Lovely to have you on the show, Slaney.

[00:01:48] Thank you very much. What an introduction.

[00:01:50] Yeah, and it’s and it’s lovely to do one with with Prav because it’s been a while since me and Prav have done gone together. But you know, we tend to start these by just getting to your backstory. Where were you born? What did your parents do? Why did you think of dentistry? What kind of kid were you?

[00:02:08] Well, I was born in London in 1990 and I was there for about a year. And then from my dad’s work, we moved to Bristol. My dad works in. He works for large breweries. I guess he was working in Bristol at the time and we lived there until I was about 10 years old.

[00:02:31] Both of my parents are Irish and they both always wanted to move back to Ireland. So when I was about 10, we packed up. The car was taken out of school one day on Easter holidays and said, You’re not going back.

[00:02:43] And we arrived in Galway in the west coast of Ireland, which is where I kind of spent all of my secondary

[00:02:49] Schooling years and is where I call home. So I then moved up to the finish school to to Dublin to study dentistry. And I guess what made me want to be a dentist, actually, I think deep down was due to a trauma when I was about nine years old and I was, Oh, I must have been less than nine. I was maybe about seven and I was climbing out of an outdoor swimming pool. My auntie had taken me out for the day to this leisure centre, and I slipped on the ladder and landed on my teeth, and I smashed lots of my front teeth and spent a lot, a lot of time in the dentist chair as a child and adolescent, having root canals, having Crohn’s, having a lot of treatment done to rehabilitate it. And I think that kind of stuck with me. And when I was choosing where I what I wanted to study in university, I remember going to see my dentist and talk to him, and he was actually a dual qualified medick and dentist. And at the time, I kind of was choosing between studying medicine or studying dentistry. So I spoke to my dentist on being duly qualified. He had done medicine after his dental degree, but I think then chose or decided that the hospital lifestyle wasn’t for

[00:03:58] Him and ended up going

[00:03:59] Back to dentistry. And that stuck with me. But also he made a comment which at the time I didn’t really understand and I thought was a slightly sexist comment. And he said that

[00:04:09] Dentistry is a really amazing career from a lifestyle perspective, in particular for a woman, and I have never really felt that up until the last two years, I kind of thought we were really,

[00:04:21] Really hard. It’s quite stressful. It’s quite intense. I didn’t think it was an amazing lifestyle job, but since having had a family myself, my eldest daughter Maggie is now one and a half

[00:04:32] Being able to go back to work part time and that being quite comfortable to do has really made me see the benefits of dentistry from a lifestyle perspective.

[00:04:43] Yeah, definitely. I mean, your life has changed very much, very quickly. You’re not to 60

[00:04:48] Years from now. From everything I do,

[00:04:53] From young, free and single to not young, then you’re so young but not free and two kids. You did that in a real hurry. And so you can see the difference between those two situations. And you know, we talk a lot on this podcast with ladies about is is Dental more difficult for ladies or not? But how do you feel? How do you feel about, you know, the differences between those two situations? Were you always going to have kids and you always knew this was the way

[00:05:21] It was going to be? Yeah, I always

[00:05:23] Wanted to have a family, and I wasn’t sure how that would fit in to my career. I think when I was young, I thought, great. I’ll, you know, have children and I’ll be a housewife for a while and enjoy that. And I think you feel

[00:05:36] And I think still a lot of my friends and siblings who don’t have children like, Oh, you have it so easy, you don’t have to go to work. Oh my god,

[00:05:43] I feel like my children is a much harder job than a day in a Dental clinic. But since having children, I knew that. I mean, I really do love my career, so I don’t I don’t want to be a stay at home parent all the time, but equally, I don’t want somebody else to be bringing up my children. So I think having that balance is really important and I think. Dentistry is is really open to that

[00:06:06] Being a male or a female, because I think we have the scope to work part time. We are lucky that we probably earn enough to allow us to work part time. And a lot of my peers who have children have ended up not going back to work because the cost of childcare is almost the same amount as what they would earn.

[00:06:23] So there’s no point in them working to spend all their money on childcare. So I think for

[00:06:28] Dentistry, we can get away with working part time, being able to have that balance

[00:06:32] Of spending time

[00:06:32] With your children and, you know, building your career

[00:06:36] Slate in-house dentistry changed for you since having kids in terms of what you do in terms of treatments, are you more selective with who you treat or what you treat and how is your work-life balance? Sort of. If you were to give us a day in the life or a week and the life of Slaney now, how is it compared to what it was like back in the day?

[00:06:59] I think the balance has changed drastically. Not necessarily since I’ve had children, but since kind of promoting myself via social media. Before I started doing any online marketing, I kind of found myself just treating whatever came in through the door and almost like competing with your colleagues for like the nice cases and the cosmetic cases since marketing myself and having patients come directly to me. They do come looking for the treatments that I marketing, which is generally composite bonding veneers, whitening or Invisalign. And really, that’s the only treatment that I do. I think because I worked much longer hours and more days prior to having my children. I was maybe taking in other stuff as well if it was there. But since having children, I mean, I collect my daughter from nursery when I work, so I finish work. I need to be gone by five o’clock and I drop it at nursery in the morning, so I’m not starting earlier than 8:30 or 9:00. But I also want to make my day worthwhile, so I need to fill it with, I guess, cases that are paying well, but cases that are not too stressful. And I’m quite I’m quite strict on my timings. If I have a patient that’s running late, I’m not going to see them because I’m then going to run late. So it has. It’s made me, I guess it’s made me, what’s the word I’m looking for? I just I don’t know how to describe what I’m trying to say I am. I take no prisoners. I get on really, really well with my patients, and I think most of my patients understand that. But I’m not willing to sit around

[00:08:35] And wait for people, and I’m not going to see time

[00:08:37] Wasters. And my time is precious to me and my time with my children is

[00:08:42] More precious than with my patients.

[00:08:44] You’ve recently moved up to Edinburgh Slaney and you know, it’s a massive difference being an associate and being a practise owner. And I guess it’s a squat practise, right? You didn’t buy a practise or do you

[00:08:55] Have more practise? No, it is. It’s not up and running yet.

[00:08:59] So you’re you’re treating patients up there.

[00:09:03] Are you? You are. I’m not. Oh, no, no. Ok. My daughter is only two months old, so I’m I’m on maternity leave. I am planning on treating patients up here in Edinburgh and in Dublin. Dublin will probably happen sooner than Edinburgh because of the build and all of the work behind setting up the practise. Whereas in Dublin I am working as an associate and I’m just travelling over once a month. I’m not due to start in January.

[00:09:28] So you’ve not done that yet either?

[00:09:30] Haven’t. No, that was actually due to start November 2019. No. Sorry, that’s not right. No. Jan Quinn. Since September 2020, 20 years ago, it was due to start in

[00:09:47] November 2020, and then because of COVID, there was all the restrictions on flights and everything. So then it was January 2021 and then I still couldn’t travel at the time. Then it kind of got closer and closer to me having my second baby and I thought, Well, it’s actually too close now. So I kind of put a hold on it with a view to pick it back

[00:10:06] Up when I kind of thought my daughter would be old enough to be left for, you know, a day or a couple of days, as the case may be. So it’s going to be January 2022. We are finally getting started in Dublin.

[00:10:18] Slaney, take me back to you arriving in Dublin as a Dental student. Yeah, as a I guess, a small town girl, Galway girl,

[00:10:29] I would never consider myself Galway, the city, albeit a very small one.

[00:10:35] I mean, I see Dublin is a small town, but but but you how were you when you came to Dublin? Was it like bright lights, big city. Have fun university or that? Or were you one of these like bookworms?

[00:10:50] No, absolutely not. I scraped by. I failed my my best friend Ruth, and I failed our first

[00:10:58] Year exam in Dental Anatomy. And honestly, the exam was a photograph of a tooth and you had to name the tooth. And we both got it wrong, and we had to come home from our holidays in August to reset the exam to rename the tooth. So no, I was I was not the studious type. I was in Dublin to party and I was actually having that conversation with my mum last night. We were laughing, but nightclubs are just about to start opening back up in Ireland and saying, who even goes to nightclubs with the exception of students. And we had a nightclub seven nights a week. There was a night Toby would have gone to on each night and we probably went to five or six of them a week well, and we would stumble into the clinic the next morning. So no, I definitely wasn’t the studious type. I feel like I really, really enjoyed my time at university and I would highly, highly recommend that to any students out there and people who I mean, I get lots of questions and Instagrams and Dental students like, you know, about what they should be studying and what they should be doing afterwards and what speciality they should be thinking about. Just enjoy your time as the student because it goes so quickly as much as you can party. As hard as you can worry about. The rest of their

[00:12:09] Five students these days are very, very focussed, aren’t they? Yeah, it’s surprising the ones who ask me questions, my goodness me afterwards surprise on the level of focus in the third year. Dental student, you know.

[00:12:22] Yeah, I mean, you still hear stuff that I don’t think I know now coming out of students minds and you’re like, What are you learning about and why? Because, you know, you stress about it so much when you’re a student about, you know, who gets a first class on her and who gets a second class on her and who passes. And like, once you walk out the door, you never, ever, ever get that. Ask that question again in your life. Do you have a degree and are you registered with the Dental Council?

[00:12:46] Yeah, yeah. So, you know, enjoy it.

[00:12:50] I think

[00:12:51] So. What about your first shop, what was the first thing you did after

[00:12:56] I came to sew? I actually really wanted to stay in Ireland, I wanted to stay in Dublin and I wanted to go straight to private

[00:13:03] Practise, which was quite hard. They used to have foundation training in Ireland, but they took it away due to lack of funding a couple of years before I graduated. So the only option if you wanted to stay in Ireland was to go to private practise. There is no health service dentistry in Ireland,

[00:13:20] So that’s what I wanted to do. But it’s quite hard to get a job when you zero experience. I wasn’t quite sure how to go about it. And obviously you couldn’t apply for those positions until you’d actually qualified and got your degree. So when all of the foundation year one, training, interviews and everything were going on, I think we were about halfway through our final year, so I thought I’ll go over. It was in Bristol. Most of my class were going and I said I’d go just for the experience and, you know, try it out. So I ended up getting all through the Clinton Clinic in central London, and I didn’t think I was going to get offered one in London. I didn’t think the interview went particularly well, and I was like, Well, I would never consider going anywhere else other than London other than staying in Dublin. So when I got offered London, I thought, that’s probably going to be quite fun. Probably enjoy it. I’ll give it a go. So I was in a practise in central London, just off Great Portland Street. And I mean, I had an amazing time. It was so much fun. We really enjoyed ourselves, but I really didn’t like the dentistry. I actually have utmost respect for NHS dentists who do work to the best of their ability because it’s so hard to do that and you’re just not you’re not paid properly to do that. So I really didn’t like having spent five years in university being taught to do things to the gold standard and then ending up in a clinic where you’re given like five minutes to put an amalgam filling in, you know, shove it in and get the patient to buy it together and walk out. So I decided during the year that I didn’t

[00:14:53] Really want to complete the year, and

[00:14:55] I had been offered a position back in Galway, in the hospital on a exact team, which I guess the works slightly differently in Ireland. Or it did at the time because there was no training in the country. So you weren’t taken on as like, you know, an F1 or an F2 or an Saaho or any of that. You kind of just joined the medical team. So I arrived in and my badge was like,

[00:15:18] You know, Dr Slaney McGrath, oral and maxillofacial registrar, and I was one year out of uni and knew nothing about like five. But you know, you got paid as your title and I had a great time and I really, really loved it. So I thought after that year, this is actually what I want to do. I thought, I’ll go back and I’ll train, I’ll do medicine and I’ll get into my parts. And my sister is a doctor. And at the time she was on like, I think she was in her maybe foundation year two or something and

[00:15:51] Was doing a lot of night shifts and

[00:15:53] Was finding it really difficult. And she was like, You are mentor, like, don’t

[00:15:56] Go back and do this. It’s not a life. So between that and a flight over to London to meet one of my best friends on that year where I was flying over Hyde Park and I love Christmas more than more than what to call them an elf, Will Ferrell. We were

[00:16:15] Flying over winter

[00:16:17] Wonderland and I looked out of the plane and I saw all the lights and everything, and I was like, You know what? I just love London. I just want to live here again. So I thought, actually, I’m not going to go back and study medicine. I’m going to move back to London, but I’m going to get the job that I want. And I’m not going back to NHS and I didn’t have the option because I never completed my foundation year.

[00:16:37] I actually couldn’t get anywhere. So that’s how I ended up back there

[00:16:42] Was that was that the job with Mark and everyone on Harley Street?

[00:16:46] That was the one. Yeah, I am. I knew I would struggle to get into this job again with very little experience and especially in London. But I wasn’t in a rush to leave my job and Galway, so I was kind of happy to work there until

[00:17:01] I had the job I wanted. So I sent LinkedIn, which I’d never been on before, and I looked up a lot of private dental clinic owners in places that I wanted to work. I started messaging them and some of them got back to me. Some didn’t. Some were really helpful. Some weren’t. Mark was was really, really helpful, and I sent him my CV and he was asking, You know, do you have a portfolio? Do you have any qualifications other than your Dental degree? And it was like, No, I’ve actually got nothing and no experience. So he said, you know, no chance you can come and work in my clinic. But here is a list of things that you need to do over the next few years and tick these boxes and then come back to me. So I knew what I wanted to do. So within about six months, I think I’d done about 80 percent of the courses that he recommended and signed up to them.

[00:17:46] What was on that list to go through is what was on that list.

[00:17:50] Chris Orr’s yearlong course, the advanced Dental seminars, one in one, some fixed orthodontic training. What else was on there? There was certainly composite courses on there.

[00:18:04] He said he’s a pankey guy himself, did he?

[00:18:06] Did he ask you

[00:18:08] To do that

[00:18:09] Yet? No, he didn’t ask. Well, maybe he sent me some information about it. He didn’t ask me to do it initially before I started, but I certainly had done some stuff with them after I did start with him. Uh huh.. But yeah, so he sent me this big list and I worked my way through it. I got back to him a few months later and said, You know, I’ve done this and I’ve done this.

[00:18:26] And he said, OK, come over and meet me. So I flew over to London and met him, and he just kind of said, I like your attitude and I like that. You’ve, you know, put your heart into it and come aboard. So I started with him, and it really was an amazing, amazing experience. I learnt an awful lot from him and a lot of the other dentists that were there. It started off as a kind of training post. I was seeing general patients, but I was spending lots of time with the other dentists watching them do cosmetic works and what to then do implant work and that type of thing. And I used to go in on a Saturday and just pretty much do the oral surgery there because that was what my experience kind of was. So I did a lot of wisdom teeth and that type of stuff. So yeah, that was that was where it started. And I

[00:19:10] Don’t have imposter syndrome a little bit like working on in one of the highest profile practises in Harley Street two years out of

[00:19:18] If I think if it happened to me now, I would, but at the time didn’t even cross my mind like 24 on live in the time of my life, I was loving it like dress, not going to work and my dress and my heels pretending I was someone I wasn’t. And I loved it. I thought it was amazing, and I learnt a huge amount there and very, very grateful to mark for all of the team, for taking me in there. And it was it was a really great experience.

[00:19:47] And so Slaney, is that when you started your marketing and sort of generating your own patients or was that

[00:19:54] Know that was a little bit later? Yes, I started there in 2015. It was around 20 eighteen. Maybe that that I was working at. It was called an entry at the time. It’s now Ru Dental and I worked the whole time I was at Harley Street. I did three days there and then one or two days at the neem tree. Since Roots and the nurse who was working with me in room was Andy McLean’s nurse from Manchester, who moved down to London and she got a job at the neem tree. And she was working with me and she had pretty much started and these Instagram for him, and he was someone who was saying, You know, what is this Instagram thing? And she was pushing saying, You know, you’ve got to do this. It’s an amazing way of marketing. And his career just took off, and rightly so, because he’s an incredible dentist and he’s a lot of work to show for himself. But I think she helped grow that for him and with him. So she started saying it to me, You know, you’ve got to you’ve got to start Instagram. And I was I was just quite nervous about putting my work out there. At the time, I was very much doing general dentistry. I’d maybe done one or two cosmetic cases and looking back, you know, they’re not great. So I was quite nervous about the criticism, maybe, that I would get from posting pictures of teeth online and also the fact that a lot of my followers, the majority of my followers, were just my friends and they’d be like, What are you doing? Posting pictures of teeth?

[00:21:20] So she I caved eventually, and Kerry kind of helped me and we started building it and just it was just really, really quick the way it grew. I think at the time, there wasn’t a huge amount of people doing it. Now I think that space itself is is quite competitive because there’s an awful lot of people doing it. But at the time, there wasn’t so, so it was quite easy to build. And then the more you post, the more patients you get.

[00:21:46] So therefore the bigger the portfolio you can build, which is that was my struggle at the beginning was that I don’t really have enough cases to post. So I was like reposting the same stuff over and over and over. But yeah, the more you post, the more you get people coming in and then the more pictures you have to post. So it’s I

[00:22:02] Mean, we’ve got a credit Kerry publicly here because, yeah, as you say, she did. She did Andy. She did, she did yours. And then she did ours. She did enlightens Instagram at the beginning of when we were nowhere and it worked for us too. But what advice do you give because, you know, enlightens Instagram doesn’t have me all over it or my work all over it? Yeah, but we have these mini small makeover events, and we talk to the dentist there and say, Who’s got an Instagram for dentist account? Very few do. Still, yeah. What’s your advice to someone who’s worried about starting and what are the, you know, the things that I think people worry about is what’s number one my aren’t going to think and to no to the other other dentists going to think. That how did you get over that?

[00:22:52] I think the people close to you or the people who are going to support you? And you always have to remember that that you know you are. You have family in your friends who are going to support you in it. I think the harshest criticism come from other dentists. And I think you just as long as I think you’re confident in what you have posting that you feel like you have done your best for that patient. And it’s very hard for somebody to criticise it. I mean, they can say, OK, that line angle is not perfect. But so what? Because it’s a learning curve for all of us. But I think as long as you know that you’re not posting a case where you know, it was a young and 18 year old who needed ortho and you put in 20 porcelain veneers, you know you’re posting your best work and you think you did right by that patient, then what? What’s the concern? Somebody can criticise that. It’s not perfect, but you know, nobody’s perfect, you know?

[00:23:43] And I remember I remember when you when you when you spoke for us at the minimalist, I remember you. You addressed this point by showing photos of you showed other dentists work and you said, Look, I was seeing Dr. Duval’s work and Dr. APA’s work and thinking, I’m not anywhere near as good as then. But then you showed these other cases that were getting loads of love, and we could all tell they weren’t the best cases. And in a way, maybe that was the thing that you thought, Well, I can do this to you if these people are getting low, hopefully.

[00:24:14] Totally. And yeah, and those are the cases where

[00:24:17] The horribly

[00:24:19] Inflamed introvert calculus everywhere. And you know, they’ve they’ve extracted teeth to put veneers on rather than orthodontics. And yeah, and people are still like, this looks great.

[00:24:28] And we’re like, Well, whose eyes?

[00:24:31] So yeah, I mean, my advice is just start because I felt that exact same way when I was starting, I thought, I’m going to get so much criticism. But as long as you’re you’re posting your best work, you’ll be surprised at how little criticism you do get. And when you do get

[00:24:44] It, I guess it’s either totally ignoring it and not letting it affect you, or it’s managing it correctly and not starting an argument with somebody or, you know, just justify your point.

[00:24:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:55] You know, people are going to be out there to, you know, to troll you and to criticise you because they always are.

[00:25:01] So have you been trolled like in a way that that’s really affected? You ruined your ruined your day?

[00:25:08] Oh, once once.

[00:25:09] It was not, necessarily. Well, no, it was actually. It was. I was. I was talking a lot and I had been have

[00:25:15] Been recently about Dental tourism because I think it’s a really important subject that needs to be addressed to the general population in the UK

[00:25:23] And Ireland. And I was posting

[00:25:26] Some pictures and talking about them. That’s not in particular, but clinics abroad that were doing

[00:25:32] 20 zirconium crimes for everybody. And I had sent and a couple of my colleagues had done the same, sent in photos of our own teeth to them to say, What do you think I need? And I, you know, I have a couple of crowns and veneers on my

[00:25:44] Front teeth and root canals, and I know that I have work and I need some

[00:25:48] Work. But I send a photo of my teeth and I needed 20 zirconium crowns and I was like, No, I can

[00:25:53] Safely say, I need. Maybe I need three, but I don’t need 20 and there’s nothing wrong with my bottom teeth. So I was posting a lot about this, and a patient got back in touch with me, who was a girl from Ireland who had been to a clinic in Turkey and had her teeth done. And she basically was like, You’re only saying this because you don’t have the skill to get a result like this. I mean, they’re horrifying to me. I was like, I don’t even want a result like that. So it went back and forth, and I don’t even know why I was responding to her. But it just got inside my head and I spent most of the day like sending awful emails and texts back to her. And you’re like, I know I need to stay professional, but it really, really hard right now. And then I got home and I was like, I don’t even know why I responded in the first place. But aside from that, I mean, there’s the odd comment you get, but I do. I just ignore it because I think you start commenting and you start responding and you’re down a rabbit hole and it does. It starts to really annoy you for no reason and it will ruin your day. And so I just ignore it. But I am lucky that I don’t get a huge amount of it.

[00:26:56] So you get sucked into the the comments and things like that. So for example, does that take up much of your time? I know a lot of people have been on here and myself included right, that sometimes when you’re active on social and I go through bouts of being totally silent to being super, super active that you get a lot of questions, comments this, that and the other. And they can take over your whole day and be incredibly distracting. And especially when you’ve got kids, it’s even more distracting. You start feeling guilty, right? Do you have a way of switching off or does it impacts you where you’re always looking at your phone?

[00:27:34] It did when I initially started, I honestly think I spent most of my life on my phone responding to text, responding to

[00:27:41] Emails, I have gone the complete opposite way now, maybe to the detriment

[00:27:46] Of my social media that I mean it could take me a month to respond to a DM. But, you know, I think people understand that for me, it’s that I’m busy and I’ve got a new baby and I don’t have time to be sitting there responding to it constantly. And it’s also quite hard for me at the moment because I’m not actually doing any clinical work. So people are asking, when can I get an appointment? And like, Well, I don’t actually know right now. So if I think if I had a more definite answer for them, I’d be more inclined to be more active on it. But I do try to. Certainly, when I was before I left London, when I was working there, my train journey in the morning

[00:28:19] And the evening was my time to be on social media so that when I get home, I don’t have to do it because I find it too. It’s unfair. You come home to see your children and to be with your family, and then you end up sitting there on your phone and not, you know, you don’t even hear what’s going on in the background when you’re so sucked into the screen. So, yeah, I I’m not going to go back to that stage. I was at the beginning at any stage. And I think also when we have our own clinic that’s up and running, there will be somebody doing that for us and it won’t be me doing it myself. That being said, it’s quite nice to have a personal touch to it, though, and I do like that when patients contact me that I’ll send them a voice note back rather than kind of generic message. So I think sometimes we’ll have somebody responding as a kind of generic response, I think to everybody. But there does need to be a personal side to it, I think as well.

[00:29:06] Are there any tips or hints when you communicate and with patients lately, like you’ve just mentioned there, you’d send a voicemail back to a patient row, which a your voice is faster than your fingers, so it saves you a bit of time, but b, it’s a bit more personalised as well. Is there any sort of anything that you can share in terms of how you engage with your followers and to the point where obviously they see your work and the a lot of them probably decide, you know, they believe in the brand of you and your personal brand, and that’s why they’ve they’ve contacted you. But in terms of just engaging with them and I guess triggering a conversation and engagement, what would you advise?

[00:29:46] I think that really would depend on the type of social media page that you have for me on my. It’s predominantly based around work and the whole purpose behind it is just to bring patients into the chair. I have no interest in being an influencer. I have no interest in pictures of me or my family or anything else on there. But I am very aware that patients buy into you as a person, not just of tea.

[00:30:14] Now that obviously works differently for everybody because take Andy, for example, with Instagram, I don’t think of a single photo of him on it

[00:30:21] Or if it’s not, if it is, it’s him in the corner of the clinic somewhere. It’s very much just about teeth and before and after pictures are so amazing that that’s great and it works that way for him. For me, I think I have a slightly more personal page, so I do post pictures of my family and, you know, just because people engage with that and I think people almost bond with you over that. So for me, I think having that personal touch is quite important. If a patient contacts me, they usually aren’t just saying, Hi, I’d like to book in a few questions and and I think they just they’re buying into you as a person and not just your dentistry. So I respond to them. Sometimes it will be a typed message if you know, if it’s just a quick response, but it will always be from me and quite personal. If it’s a kind of longer, a more complex question, then I’ll send it as a video. Or, excuse me, as a voice note, I know Afan sends to a lot of what’s really still doing this. But when he was certainly starting his, he was sending all of his patients a video response because they just they know that you’ve taken the time to send that to them and you look slightly different if it’s not just that’s coming from their receptionist or that’s coming from their treatment coordinator.

[00:31:32] They know it is actually your advice and it’s come from you. I also I do also find that when if something has been like patients, you will say something to them on Instagram, like, you know, the consultation fee and when they can come in and then they’ll call or email reception to make an appointment. And sometimes it seems that it’s free and then it goes back and forth and back and forth and like, No, I would never say that it’s free. But I think that for people who think that that maybe they’re just talking to a receptionist or talking to somebody and they’re trying to get something out of you, almost. So I think having that voice note or a video or something like that where you say, you know, this is my consultation fee, this is what I’m available to see. This is what we’re going to do for you on the first visit. Then they know exactly what’s happening before they walk in the door. And there’s never any drama in the clinic.

[00:32:22] Solanki you’ve worked in some of the high profile clinics, clinics that have very strong social presences themselves. What have you learnt? You know you’re about to become principal. Say, I mean, you know, you’re going to have people working for you soon and all that. What have you learnt from the different clinics? Because we’ve had both Xaba and Mark Hughes and Adam Thorn on on this show? And I mean, all of them are extraordinary people. Do you think, you know, as well as you know, for actually for any of our listeners who who want the masterclass on what did what happened to Slaney? If you send me a DM, I’ll send you her her lecture from the minimalist. But what my point is on top of what you do? Or did the clinics do to help?

[00:33:09] I think the staff are the most important part, and that’s something that I’ve certainly taken away from me. From being through that I would like to replicate in my own clinic that the staff there build your clinic. I mean, the treatment coordinators in particular, having good treatment coordinators, having reliable nurses, having that friendly vibe in the clinic that your reception team are there to chat to your patients and make them feel welcome. It was that feeling of, I mean, it’s very difficult to to

[00:33:40] Not to criticise either clinic, actually,

[00:33:41] But they’re just both very, very different that the Harley Street clinic has the Harley Street vibe. You go in and everybody’s very well dressed and the classical music at reception and the patients sit silently in the waiting room. Whereas Rue, or like a more kind of social media friendly clinic, is more about young patients and it’s people coming in and it’s so friendly.

[00:34:00] The reception is so, you know, chatting away to the patients about just day to day life. And patients always say, like, I don’t

[00:34:06] Feel like I’m coming to the dentist. I just feel like I’m popping over to my friend’s house or I’m going to a spa or something like that. And that, I think, is really important. I really think that’s going to start. I mean, really, our job is just to do the dentistry, like everything else, can kind of be done by a good team and having a treatment coordinator who understands the treatment, but is also really, really good and caring for patients. Having nursing staff that know that they’re valued, that is a massive thing. I think in London in particular, the turnover of nursing staff and we’re just in and out, in and out because I think they often don’t feel valued, they feel overworked and underpaid. So I really want to find a good team and I want to treat them really, really well so that they stay with me. And I think that’s the primary thing that I’ve learnt from working in quite a few clinics over the years.

[00:34:53] And Slaney, your your clinic, you mentioned like you’ve got a the equivalent of the Harley Street classical music and all the rest of it. And then you’ve got the the Rue Dental social media ask, what if you were to sort of paint a picture of your vision for the practise? What would that be?

[00:35:11] My vision is aesthetically Harley Street, but emotionally rue Dental.

[00:35:20] And I think you can get the best of both worlds in Edinburgh because the buildings are just amazing. You try to go over the buildings, but

[00:35:28] Having that friendly, relaxed vibe once you walk inside the door.

[00:35:33] And in terms of the team, the set up of the team, obviously there’s going to be yourself at the forefront. Have you have you sort of got a team together who are going to support you in addition to?

[00:35:43] No, not yet, because I haven’t we haven’t got a fixed date to open, so I don’t want to start, you know, approaching that too early. I had about three or four people in mind who I was really, really hoping I could get involved. And over the last couple of months, I’ve been in touch with a few of them and I’ve just opened my own clinic. I’m like, Oh no.

[00:36:01] So there are there are people I have in mind and people who I would really, really love to come and

[00:36:07] Work with, but who knows they may or may not be available.

[00:36:12] I also think there’s a balance between having the people who have established themselves already and can help you grow it from where they are and having young, really enthusiastic dentists who can grow with you. And I think I’d like a combination of both.

[00:36:29] And have you got anxiety? Have you got anxiety about filling this clinic with patients?

[00:36:34] No. Maybe I should have. I, you know, I’m nervous about having my own. I say my own business, our own business. I Stuart, who is I call on my husband. We’re actually getting married on New Year’s Eve. So he was almost my husband.

[00:36:49] He’s an accountant by trade, but

[00:36:50] He’s going to be doing all the kind of running and the management and all that type of thing in the clinic. So we’re doing it together

[00:36:55] And the business side, and those worries are predominantly his and I’ll take concerns. But yeah, I mean, I’m nervous about putting everything we have into this. But at the same time, I’m quite confident that if we can provide a service that is actually not a huge amount of people doing in Scotland at the moment that that it will work.

[00:37:18] So I mean, you’re going to have to on day one or do you have a bunch of people already waiting? Is you?

[00:37:24] Yeah.

[00:37:25] Oh, I see. You know, that kind of helps. Would you say anxiety? A bit, I guess.

[00:37:36] Is there any ill knowns that you’re that you have anxiety about or anything like, I guess you’ve been in and out of, you know, Dental practises to see what’s going on right? But I guess when running a bit

[00:37:48] Different, being an associate, totally different being an associate than a principal.

[00:37:52] Yeah, yeah. And I think from a set up perspective, I mean, I’m lucky that I have been involved in the opening of a clinic before and from a secrecy perspective and all of that I’ve been involved

[00:38:01] In in interviews. And so I’m I mean, I know that’s a lot of work, but I’m, you know, I’m not otherwise working at the moment. So but my point,

[00:38:10] My point isn’t that my point is, you know, when you and Kerry working at Roux? Yeah, when you’re not the boss, there’s a different relationship with the staff and when you are the boss, right?

[00:38:22] Yeah, of course.

[00:38:23] And how that’s going to translate, what kind of boss are you going to be? What kind of boss do you think going to be?

[00:38:28] I think there’s a line between being too close friends with your colleagues because then it sorry, not with your colleagues, with your employees, because it

[00:38:35] Then becomes very, very difficult if somebody is not kind of working at the standard that you’d like them to be. So I want to be

[00:38:42] Very, very fair. I want to get on

[00:38:45] Very well with my employees, but I’m also not going to be going out with them on a Saturday night and partying every week or with anybody else for that matter. And I’ve got two children and I got, if I could, I might have that.

[00:39:00] We’re coming to Edinburgh in a couple of weeks on May four, and

[00:39:04] I have the babies that are in that. Neither party is

[00:39:08] Going to say Thursday the 11th. I hope you’ve got your baby sister sorted.

[00:39:12] I know I did actually have to message Susie because I have a babysitter for the Friday of I’m coming to see off the money talking on Friday, but I just don’t know if my

[00:39:22] Youngest will be able to stay on her own because she’s not great

[00:39:25] At reading the bottle. So I had to mess with Susie and was like, Can I take her? She was like, Actually, don’t care what anyone else says.

[00:39:31] I like babies become friends with the baby, but not on the Thursday night,

[00:39:37] The first day, Thursday, the 11th for any listeners as well. We’re having a big, enlightened party in Lulu in Edinburgh. So do do join us. How do you find Edinburgh as a town to live in? I mean, outside of OK, look, it’s so stunning. Every time I go there, it’s really surprises me. How beautiful it it. Yeah, but the people and how do you think the patients are going to translate or you don’t know?

[00:40:00] I mean, I can’t say for sure, but I have a relatively large network of people similar age to me here. And I guess the type of patients I was treating in London were young females. And what I was really trying to target were people at my age that young mums, because you’ve got something in common with them. So I have a relatively large network of those people here,

[00:40:25] And I feel like they will translate very similarly to the way my patients were in London.

[00:40:30] I don’t I don’t foresee a massive difference there. It’s obviously a much smaller place. A word of mouth is, I think, much bigger here. I actually saw I got my nails done last week by a lady that I was recommended to on Instagram, and she has a huge Instagram following. He had nothing to do with nails. She just was on maternity leave about two or three years ago and started, so I’ll just have some extra income and started getting some people over to her house to do their nails. And it’s such a good job that they recommended more and more people. And now she’s booked up for about four months in advance, and it’s all just through social media. But it’s happened really, really quickly for her because it’s just such a small place that everybody knows everybody. So word of mouth spreads really quickly. So I’m really hoping that that’s going to be the case for us, and I think that’s just down to people feeling really welcome and cared for. Obviously, I want the treatment to be the best treatment possible, be it done by me or one of the associates that are hopefully going to be working there. But I. I think as long as they feel really cared for and the relationship between the clinic and all of the staff on the patients are good, then I think a hope word of mouth will spread.

[00:41:40] Let’s get some darkness, so we’ve been very light up today. What’s been your darkest day? Workwise.

[00:41:53] So I

[00:41:54] I I was sued

[00:41:56] By a patient a year after I qualified. That’s not true. Actually, I was in private practise, so it was my first year in private

[00:42:03] Practise and I just come out of my next

[00:42:06] Year. So I was quite confident and I think competent in taking out impacted wisdom. And I was seeing a patient who was a gentleman who was about 30. I used to come to this appointment with his mom, which was slightly unusual because he was a 30 year old man.

[00:42:21] But I was extracting his lower right wisdom

[00:42:24] Tooth and the little drill bit in

[00:42:29] The Burr like the, you know, on the straight hand, this is like a little latch to clip in the bird. The latch was slightly wobbly, but I didn’t think very much of it.

[00:42:37] The birthing season and it was quite so patient was numb. I had a big retractor in his lip and I was tossing away bone and put away the bone. That was fine. Tooth came out, the assistant was holding, the lip retracted. The whole time tooth came out, stitched him all up, ready to go, took out the lip protractor and I caused this big burn, decided his lip where the bird wasn’t fully engaged in the hunting. So it was like slipping up and down. It was a huge friction burn. So it had to be on the side of his lip. And oh my god, I got the absolute fright of my life. So I just I stitched it back up and in a complete, complete panic to explain to the patient what had happened. And he was just, I mean, it wasn’t the easiest extraction in the world anyway. So I think he was just a bit like, I’m ready to just go home. So he left and I had a minor panic attack, major panic attack, maybe, you know, called Dental protection and everything else and thought, this is the end of my career. Oh my God. And you went away and I called him that evening and I called him the next day and he’d been fine. And then a couple of days later, I got

[00:43:39] Contacted by

[00:43:41] Cameron was on the phone. It was an email that by his mother and she was like, Oh, we’re just a bit worried about it. It’s a bit we maybe need to be or what are you learning to do about it? So I phoned back Dental protection and they said, offer them a referral to fax. But if you suit up the wound, what’s going to happen? You know, nothing else is going to happen. So luckily, I had quite a good relationship with Nick Cavazos, who’s a macrobiotics consultant in Harley Street and in Kings, and I sent some pictures to him and I contacted him and he said, Look, we’ve done everything we can do is going to heal, but it comes into us. We’re just going to tell him the same thing. So it kind of relayed that back to him and he was okay. He was fine. I reviewed him weekly and it had healed. And on the external surface, you couldn’t really see anything. You also always had a beard. It was like a tiny, tiny little line. And then on the internal surface, it was kind of a scar that went down, but it was on the inside. So you just disappeared for like two years. And I was like, Oh, he’s obviously fine. And then he came back out of nowhere, and it probably wasn’t two years. It was maybe six months. He came back on, originally rumoured to take out that wisdom teeth and then do some Invisalign and replace the front teeth in the new year. So we came back to music. I want the Invisalign, so we got started with the design and everything was fine. And then, like a couple of months into Invisalign, Monk came back in and she’s like, We want compensation for the issue with the lip. It was all just a bit awkward at the time because I was like, well, you know, it was quite a while ago, you come back to me for treatment. I’m now in the middle of a treatment plan with you, but what you want.

[00:45:13] So we’ve had a discussion about

[00:45:15] Reduction of the veneer or whatever it was for it, and they kind of went away to think about it. And we continued on with the Invisalign while this was going on and the correspondence was quite slow. And then eventually I got a letter from a lawyer that arrived to the clinic looking for all of the notes. I don’t I don’t think they fully understood that they were suing me personally and not the clinic because he was still coming to all his appointments. So then I had to sit down with them and say, Look, there’s a real conflict of interest here. You’re suing me for negligence, yet you’re attending all of your appointments with me and you want me to keep treating you. So in the end, I basically ended up referring him to a colleague because I was like, I can’t keep treating you. And it progressed with Dental protection. It went on for so long, and in the end, I think it got settled for £500. And think of all of that, I would have just given him £500 to save me the heartache at the beginning. And so I think that day when that happened was my darkest day in the clinic so far. I was so, so scared. What we got through it, and he’s still alive, and you can’t see the sign is lit from the outside.

[00:46:22] Would you say that’s also your biggest clinical error? Yes, I would.

[00:46:27] And well, yes, I would say there’s other you make other errors, don’t you, but that’s the only one.

[00:46:33] So what can we learn? What can we learn from that? You know, check your drill before you.

[00:46:37] Yes, absolutely.

[00:46:40] And I think jack the drill. And also,

[00:46:44] I mean, I think I did. I feel like I did from a communication perspective, handled as best I could because I was in constant contact with him. But then when he just kind of disappeared for six months, I had just assumed it had all healed. It was fine. I think the last time I’d seen him, it had pretty much healed and it was fine. And then we started proceeding with more treatment and then it came back to it afterwards. So that was all just kind of quite confusing. But yeah, I mean, I don’t know. Maybe it’s a red flag. I really apologise if anyone brings their mother with them to their appointments, but to somebody who’s over 30 and brings them over with them to appointments like maybe should have.

[00:47:25] I mean, when you’ve done something different, it sounds like it’s one of those ones where it’s just one of those, you know, freak situations, I can’t say

[00:47:32] I couldn’t have done anything differently. I mean, I could have checked the drill piece, but yet I mean, I am to blame and there’s nothing you can do about that, really. I did cut his lip and heals.

[00:47:47] I mean, I’m happy with that, although I kind of want your second biggest mistake now

[00:47:51] You ever pulled the wrong tooth out slowly.

[00:47:54] Haven’t, thankfully,

[00:47:58] Prav lives on. Then the reason why

[00:48:01] I love it. I have once I

[00:48:04] Have drilled, not taken out the wrong tooth, but I was

[00:48:07] Taking off an old veneer

[00:48:10] That had caries under it and a patient had six veneers and I was just replacing one and I started drilling

[00:48:16] Into the one on the wrong side. Oh yeah. And then I realised and I filled it with composite. And the other half

[00:48:26] You told the patient, No, you didn’t tell the patient how honest you did make that. How honest if you.

[00:48:34] I love that I have to be edited out.

[00:48:41] I love that you admitted that. Well, let’s go. Well, we’ll discuss this later on with you.

[00:48:47] Do you prepare?

[00:48:48] The veneer is we’re kind of coming to the end of their lifespan, so they were all going to need to be replaced, but it didn’t have caries under it. It wasn’t urgent.

[00:48:57] You would just you just doing half the job in advance. Were you to save yourself a bit of time later on?

[00:49:03] What about Slaney? Give us give us a top tip. Yeah, top clinical tip. You do so many align bleach bond cases. Yep. But you know there must be some, some little hack, something something that you know, something Slaney is going to add to this to this debate. Something something that would help someone who wants to get into that world or someone who is already in that world.

[00:49:26] These really hard questions off the cuff.

[00:49:27] You should have prepared me for this because I feel like anything I say is going to be the same as everyone else does.

[00:49:33] No, that’s not the case. That is not the case. No, no, no. It’s weird when I hear that from people, everyone does things differently.

[00:49:41] I think one thing for me, newish people into, I think the Invisalign

[00:49:46] System has changed with Invisalign go and the way they move now. But certainly for me, when I started with Invisalign, I found that a huge number of patients and cases at the very, very end were like, Oh, my vote doesn’t feel right, and I would end up in refinement after assignment, after assignment, trying to get these contact points in the right place. And it just still doesn’t feel right. And I think this just hit me when I had Invisalign myself that when I finished, I was like, Oh honey, I literally accrued on one tooth, and that’s it. But after about five weeks, she called together. Everything was perfect, and I have perfect in inverted commas class one occlusion, though, and all my teeth contact. So I think that is a big point that that took me a long time to realise. And I think had I not had it myself, I would still be doing refinement, refinement to try and figure that out. So I always explained that to my patients in the very first visit and also at every visit throughout that. When you finish the treatment, your bite is probably going to feel unusual. It is going to settle. And obviously, there’s case cases where you can see that bite not right, but where it looks right to you. But the patient is telling you it’s not working.

[00:50:57] What about what about with composite composite veneers?

[00:51:00] I think all all of composite is down to two things nine angles and polish. I think if your line angles are wrong, they look really wrong. And if you don’t have any line angle going, you see a lot of on the computer the computer holds up on Instagram. You know that they were certainly not true and not lifelike. And I think the the polish and the texture at the. The other thing for me, when I started doing composite, I spent 12 hours how long polishing with every desk under the sun and every borough you could find, you spent hours and hours at it. Now I applied for my composites with a lot of crystals. And I think that gives you pretty much finish to it anyway. I then use a coarse plastic soft disk to just kind of rush the thing of it. And then when that added in texture and everything, I just use that the A.S.A.P. needle points and polishing takes five minutes now. Quality used to take five minutes more. But I think it really, really gives. I guess it gives us kind of the perfect as the wrong word, but that lifelike end result. And I used to find taking pictures and always put some water on the piece to make them look shiny and looked like they were in real trouble. Whereas now I feel like I want to do the opposite. I want wanted to completely dry everything because the polish is there and the shine is there. So I think from getting your own angles correct, making the teeth really, really shiny are the two things that will set you apart from everybody else.

[00:52:41] Yeah, specifically, that means your line angle on the Centrals, right?

[00:52:45] I know if they’re not symmetrical that you gloss over

[00:52:49] The rest of it. People kind of ignore, but that one you can’t you can’t get that one wrong.

[00:52:53] Yeah, we get around one on a straight one. Oh, and then you actually get messages. Quite a lot of young dentists who are doing it and they’ll send a picture and say, What do you think I can change here? And that’s one of the things I see or comment on a lot is that things actually look really good, but they’re not symmetrical. One straight ones round. And that’s what throwing your eye off. And it’s really hard to think until you have some experience in doing that and knowing why they don’t look right because you put your callipers on you, like, well, they’re the same width. Why do one want to look wider than the other? So I think, yeah, just practises. I guess what gets you there? I put a picture I actually got caught out doing this, but I put a picture of a composite case I did about three or four years ago on Instagram compared to what I did at the moment. And it was a post aimed at young dentists who messaged me asking, You know, what courses should I do? And you know, and I always advise the courses that I think are really good, namely, my makeover and undies and monarchs is great, but you can do as many courses in the world unless you start practising doing it and so on. So I posted my one from four years ago and one from now, and I said, Look, I’ve done one or two courses between here and here, but actually it’s just doing lots of cases and the patient. I didn’t realise he followed me. The patient on the first case messaged me and is like, I’m so disappointed to see you using my case as a bad example of. He got rid of them.

[00:54:21] What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

[00:54:25] I think that’s nothing to do with clinical dentistry, and I think it is all to do with how you handle and manage your patients and how you speak to your patients. Because I think patients leave happy if they were treated well and they may come back to you and say, You know what? This truth isn’t exactly how I want it to be. I want you to change it. But as long as you’re really understanding and you’re empathetic towards them, you they’ll come back as many times they want to get their teeth to that perfect place. Whereas I think if there’s any kind of stand off business or, you know, hostility between you and your patient, they are much more inclined to make a complaint and it to be much more difficult for you than somebody that you got on with. So I think, I think have showing empathy is probably the best bit of advice I would’ve been given.

[00:55:14] Yeah. I mean, you know, since I’ve stopped practising 10 years ago and when I when I when I think back on my Dental career, I even though I used to love that piece, talking to patients and understanding who they are. I still think I could have done more from that perspective, you know? That really is even now, you know, friends and family having operations, the surgeon’s bedside manner is just as important as his reputation and, you know, in what he does. And with us, you know, it’s such a close relationship that that I absolutely agree with that slowly we end these things with Prav final questions. You’re not a fan of this podcast, but if you were, you’d be prepared for Prav final questions.

[00:56:05] I’m going to come out of it. So I’m just not a podcast listener in general.

[00:56:09] So that’s all right. That’s Prav. Go ahead.

[00:56:14] Slaney, imagine it was your last day on the planet and you were surrounded by your little ones, your loved ones who would not be so little anymore and you had to leave them with three pieces of wisdom. Or three pieces of life advice. What would they be?

[00:56:36] I was hoping for a desert island disc. I would have that one down.

[00:56:41] Let’s start with that. Let’s start with that while you think about this. What’s gone? Gone? What’s your foresee? What would be your desert island disc?

[00:56:48] Well, my my happy song is Clean Bandit rather be. Because I was one day in a really good place in my life and I was in Thailand with some pals and I just fed up with somebody I’ve been

[00:57:03] Trying to do for ages. I was really happy and I was walking down the beach and we had a good night the night before and I was a bit hung over and I had my earphones in and it was old school, pre ear plugs, wire hold holding my iPod and that song was on. I was like, God, life is great.

[00:57:19] Amazing.

[00:57:20] Plus my desert island disc. What are my three pieces of wisdom for my children and my loved ones? I think. Being. Confident in who they are, whoever they become. I’m not. I just think insecurity is one of the worst, most debilitating things that you can have. So I mean, I don’t know how you turn that into words of wisdom other than being confident, but that’s what I would wish for them.

[00:57:52] You’re one of the most confident people I know, Slaney. Do you think that was? That’s something that’s inherent in you? Or do you think it’s something your parents did

[00:58:00] To make you something inherent in me? I think when I was a child, I think my eldest daughter is quite like me as a child, but she’s just very outgoing, wants to chat to everybody. There is just no stop. I mean, it’s only one and a half. It doesn’t know, but I hope. I hope she’s always like that. I mean, me versus my sister, when my sister is much more introverted than I am was a much more timid, shy child and I wasn’t so. So I think I think that was just there all along.

[00:58:29] So be confident. Number two.

[00:58:32] Be kind, be kind. Yeah, I just think there are people out there who are just not coming because but I think, yeah, I just think you’re a happier person if you treat people well. I think having I fell out with a Payman, probably both of you probably know the story anyway. But I did pull out with an old clinical manager, I guess, in a clinic that I worked at a while ago and quite drastically fell out with him. And I remember thinking really horrible things about him afterwards, and I was like, I don’t know why I’m thinking this, because he’s obviously just so unhappy. It was actually, you know what I was doing. I was doing a meditation course randomly, and they were getting you to think nice things about people that you like and they think nice thoughts about people that you were indifferent about and then getting you to think nice thoughts about somebody that you really disliked and this person popped into my head. And I’ve always thought horrible thoughts about him, probably from the first day I met him. And then I just was like, I don’t know why I’m thinking, like, he’s a horrible person because you know me thinking horrible thoughts about him is not making him a nicer person. Me thinking my thoughts about him just makes me think that he’s just an unhappy little person. So I think being kind and thinking happy thoughts and not just not not disliking people because we’re all going to dislike people, but but I think limiting it. Yeah, this is a really, really hard question. Probably like I’m coming across like a total idiot. Exactly.

[01:00:10] I mean, exactly you’re talking about as well. We’ll just keep we’ll just leave it at that.

[01:00:19] And the third and even yourself, be kind.

[01:00:25] Party hard line, I think too short

[01:00:33] To take too seriously,

[01:00:35] Brilliant.

[01:00:36] Enjoy it.

[01:00:38] That’s lovely.

[01:00:39] And lady, how would you like to be remembered? Slaney was.

[01:00:46] You’re. You’re doing good, do you?

[01:00:51] How would you spell here, was it, Ari?

[01:00:55] Sorry. How would I like to be remembered? I would like to be remembered as somebody who worked hard but enjoyed themselves. And I think

[01:01:11] For me, certainly over the last couple of years, my outlook on life has changed quite a lot. And I think the family has changed that somebody really, really enjoyed their family and spending time with them. And I do. I mean, I find it really tough sometimes when the children are just screaming. But there are such good times where they just so much fun and so funny that I think I’d like to be remembered as a family person,

[01:01:40] Say on the working hard front. I mean, you flew in to Belfast and out within three hours. Heavily pregnant. I think when you must have been eight and a half months pregnant, when you did,

[01:01:54] That probably was around that. Yeah.

[01:01:57] To help me out for a marketing lecture, one hour lecture. You flew in and out of Belfast. Where? Where do you get your work ethic from? Is it? Do you put that down to your parents or.

[01:02:09] Oh, yes and no, I think I. I get a bit I get a bit addicted to doing things like when they start something and it’s

[01:02:18] Going well and doing it, I find it hard to just switch off and put it away. But then there’s the flip side of that where I’m going to say now or I’m not working well, I say I’m not working. I feel like I’m working really hard, but I’m not doing Dental, and I would find it quite hard to do something like that right now and said, fly over for a day and talk about dentistry. I kind of feel like I’m so switched off at the moment that it would be hard to switch it back on quickly. I need to build into that. And I think the things are going well and you’re enjoying it. I really enjoy it. That’s, I think, a big point of it or a big part of it that but it’s not. I mean, obviously, you wake up in the morning. It always feels like work when you’ve to get up to an alarm in the morning and leave your nice, comfy bed. But once I’m there, I really enjoy it. I enjoy talking to my patients. I enjoy treating my patients. I enjoy the difference it makes on their life. So, yeah, I think enjoying it makes you work hard.

[01:03:12] Very good point, very good point. And Prav, you got one, one final final.

[01:03:19] Yeah, which is.

[01:03:21] I mean, you’re going to enjoy this question slightly if you have 30 days left, but you had your health intact and everyone around you and all the money in the world. How would you spend those 30 days?

[01:03:36] I would get my closest friends and family, I would I was going to say yacht, I get seasick, so yacht maybe not the right idea,

[01:03:45] But I would want to go somewhere like really amazing.

[01:03:48] And no, you’re laughing at me there, Payman. It’s ridiculous, like scuba diving, one of my favourite hobbies that I get really seasick. I would want to go somewhere really, really amazing. I’m not quite sure where yet because I haven’t been to the place, but I find that place needs to have sunshine. It needs to have seaside and needs to have a really, really nice place to stay with a lot of good wine and music. And I would get my closest friends, my family,

[01:04:13] And we would just live there for the full 30 days, just everybody doing what they want to do,

[01:04:20] But preferably together. I don’t think there’s one specific thing I do. I also I’d like to do a

[01:04:24] Skydive and I haven’t, and I would. But if I only had 30 days left, I wouldn’t be that bothered about jumping out of plane on my own. I’d kind of just want to spend time with the people I care about.

[01:04:34] Yeah, you wouldn’t do that. One last composite veneers case

[01:04:41] For a souvenir that I shoved. Put me. Margaret Yeah, that makes sense. But years and years ago,

[01:04:52] It’s been an absolute pleasure to have you say the end. Thank you. I I feel like I feel like we didn’t make the most of you when you were down here in London, you know?

[01:05:01] But that isn’t

[01:05:02] Available out here. I’m very happy. Train or flight

[01:05:06] Is. Isn’t life strange that way? But I’m looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks time in Edinburgh. William, thank you so much for doing this.

[01:05:14] You’re very welcome. Thank you for having me. And it was lovely to chat to you both.

[01:05:18] Thanks, lady.

[01:05:19] Take care.

[01:05:21] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[01:05:37] Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you’ve got some value out of it.

[01:05:52] If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing and if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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