Teki: Now, obviously when you’ve got a bigger business and this is been my biggest challenge, [00:00:05] is you can have a small team that are bothered. Yeah, okay. Now try and get yourself a big team that’s bothered. [00:00:10] Where are we going with all this. Can you have quality and quantity? For [00:00:15] me it depends what your definition of quality is. For me, I [00:00:20] can say that I can’t have more than a practice, more [00:00:25] than one practice that’s bigger than four surgeries and still maintain [00:00:30] the quality that I want to give to my patients.

Payman Langroudi: You’re not up to it. Yeah.

Teki: It’s [00:00:35] either I’m not up to it, or I can’t find the people that are going to be able to match [00:00:40] the standards that I want for them to give to my patients.

Payman Langroudi: But do you accept? It’s possible, but you’re [00:00:45] just not up to it.

Teki: It’s possible. Yeah, but you have to know your own limitations.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:50] is Dental Leaders, [00:00:55] the podcast where you get to go one on one [00:01:00] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:01:05] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:01:10] gives me great pleasure to welcome techie suddenly onto the podcast, [00:01:15] otherwise known as Teeth by Teki. Thank you. One of the biggest brands in dentistry. [00:01:20] Massive Instagram I remember seeing of yours, and two practices [00:01:25] and a little bit of a teaching career in both aligners and composite bonding. [00:01:30] Um, take is, for me, being an enigma. Really. I’ve always [00:01:35] watched you from from from afar. Yeah. Um, but it’s a great [00:01:40] pleasure to have you here. Thanks. Thanks for coming.

Teki: Thanks. I know it’s taken a while to get here, but I’m glad to be [00:01:45] here. And actually, it’s made the episode even better because so much has happened in the last year, so it’s only going [00:01:50] to bring more to this discussion.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me, how did you even get into dentistry? [00:01:55] Why did you get into dentistry? What? What kind of a kid were you?

Teki: Yeah, dentistry wasn’t, [00:02:00] uh, it wasn’t planned necessarily a career. When I got to A-level [00:02:05] stage, I did a variety of subjects. My favourite subject at school was always history, [00:02:10] and I took it actually for A-levels and I remember doing food technology. I did maths, [00:02:15] but luckily I had my chemistry biology to allow me to go into anything [00:02:20] medical and towards the end of sixth form I [00:02:25] still didn’t know, but the the college was insisting that you did some kind of career. Uh, [00:02:30] we used to call it a careers room that you’d have to go to and show them what you were doing to find something. [00:02:35] And you typed in all these different things that you like doing. I like working [00:02:40] with people outside, indoors. And a few suggestions come up. One of them was a dentist [00:02:45] because I had that a little bit of an artistic side. And then based on that, you have to go and do work experience. [00:02:50] So I picked the closest dentist to the college to go and do work experience purely [00:02:55] ease. Now my experience as a patient, I had typical orthodontic [00:03:00] treatment from when I was younger for for extracted walking into [00:03:05] an old house which smells, you know, dentist didn’t say anything. I remember the nurse [00:03:10] being nice, giving you a sticker at the end and it just NHS. It wasn’t something that I hated. [00:03:15] It was just something that I, you know, I was a good kid like that. I understood I needed to go. Yeah. I [00:03:20] walked into this practice, um, down the road from my college.

Payman Langroudi: Which was where? [00:03:25]

Teki: Hornchurch in Essex.

Payman Langroudi: Is that where you grew up?

Teki: Yeah, I grew up in Romford [00:03:30] in Essex, and I was blown away. The practice was a private [00:03:35] practice, and it was like I’d walked into somewhere in LA, Beverly Hills. It was something [00:03:40] else. There was tiles everywhere. Flat screens at the time weren’t even a thing. But there was the the [00:03:45] dentist. The way that he treated his patients was [00:03:50] something I’d never seen before. And I remember at the end of the appointment he was doing, it was at [00:03:55] the time that people were having a lot of porcelain like smile makeovers.

Payman Langroudi: Who was [00:04:00] it shouting out?

Teki: He was? His name was AD Raman, and I don’t [00:04:05] think I’m not sure he’s still there. I think he moved away, but what he was doing, his [00:04:10] patients were crying because they loved their happiness. They were giving him a hug they [00:04:15] were coming in with. And it was something that I’d never seen before. They had a receptionist. I have to shout her out, [00:04:20] Gina, what she did for the patients, the level of patient care. It [00:04:25] was something I’d never seen before. And at that point, [00:04:30] for me it was like, it’s not necessarily what you’re doing, it’s how you [00:04:35] do it. He was successful. He was young. He was like kind of pretty much how old I am. [00:04:40] He was in his 30s. He was successful. He just treated people really well and he [00:04:45] was obsessed with what he’d done. I did not look, I can’t even remember the technical [00:04:50] things that he was doing. I wasn’t interested in the veneers that he was doing or what it was. [00:04:55] So I looked into it, applied, and I got an interview at Sheffield [00:05:00] University very quickly. Then I started to look into [00:05:05] it a bit more and realised how difficult it was to actually get a place. So I felt very lucky. Went [00:05:10] for the interview and then I’d never really been outside of of London [00:05:15] at that age and I rocked up in Sheffield and I must.

Payman Langroudi: Have been a culture.

Teki: Shock. [00:05:20] It was a culture shock. And I was at a tram stop and there was this, uh, 78 year old lady [00:05:25] with a shopping trolley, and she turned around to me and she said, hi, doc. [00:05:30] She was like, where are you off to today? And I was like, why [00:05:35] are you talking to me? Why should I? In London? She would be scared of me. She would move. [00:05:40]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Teki: I was going to Sheffield, so the others came in. Now, actually, when I applied, [00:05:45] I thought my dream was to go to study in London because I had a great life, great friends. I wanted to stay at home, [00:05:50] but no, instantly I fell in love with the place and I’m so glad that I did go and study there. [00:05:55] It was a great place to study five years. The dental school is incredible and but [00:06:00] the day that I finished, I knew I was coming home.

Payman Langroudi: I had a similar experience. I mean, I wanted [00:06:05] to go to London and ended up in Cardiff. Best thing that ever happened.

Teki: Beautiful Cardiff.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:06:10] right now I’m trying to persuade my son to leave London for university.

Teki: Best thing you could do, [00:06:15] you.

Payman Langroudi: Know another chapter to your life. Another. Another sort of angle on your life.

Teki: The skills [00:06:20] that you learn. Obviously, you don’t know at the time. Yeah, but now even the girls at work, sometimes I [00:06:25] get frustrated with them. And then I think, actually, they wouldn’t know unless you’ve moved out, unless [00:06:30] you’ve had to do your own washing and, you know, how would you know these things? So university does teach you. [00:06:35] I mean, we all.

Payman Langroudi: What were you like at Sheffield? Was it like your first taste of freedom? [00:06:40] Go a bit crazy or. No. Studying hard.

Teki: What you said in the introduction is probably [00:06:45] a little bit of this. Kind of labels always been carried with me throughout my life. A bit of a mystery. [00:06:50] Oh, I came, I was from Essex. I was the only guy in the year [00:06:55] that had a car. And I think everybody thought, oh, look who’s this kid? I was very being from [00:07:00] Essex. I was very into designer clothes. So I’d go into uni looking like I was not, [00:07:05] not like a typical student. So I think they so I got the label as a maybe [00:07:10] a bit of a rich boy actually, as it, as, as it went on. And by the end of the five [00:07:15] years, I actually worked out that my parents were probably the most, you know, gave me nothing. And I had everything worked [00:07:20] hard for myself. But I appreciate that. But there was that element of Mr.. I didn’t really get [00:07:25] too involved. My best friend’s actually from Sheffield were actually from Sheffield, not from actual [00:07:30] dentists. My very.

Payman Langroudi: Townies.

Teki: Yeah, yeah. I used to play football [00:07:35] with them. I worked in, if anyone knows, Sheffield in the shopping centre called Meadowhall. Yeah. [00:07:40] Um, so I made friends there and it was. It was great for me, you know, the dentists were [00:07:45] were nice. We worked together. But it was enough. Was enough. I needed that, that separation [00:07:50] from me. So I always had that, like, I was I think I was the only person in [00:07:55] our year that didn’t go to the graduation ball. As soon as I was done, I was like, see ya. God, [00:08:00] God. I was like, nice, nice. Knowing you.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a real outsider then.

Teki: Yeah, [00:08:05] I was inside the outside, you know, and now I see, I see, uh, just at Birmingham, I saw [00:08:10] some, uh, people that I studied with. We stay in touch now. We’ve reconnected. It’s lovely.

Payman Langroudi: Do [00:08:15] you think you’ve. I mean, have you have you always had an outsider mentality?

Teki: Yeah, I [00:08:20] think so.

Payman Langroudi: Even in even in Essex.

Teki: Yeah, I think so. Listen, you, you know, I’m from, [00:08:25] you know, my parents, both my parents are from Iraq. Um, were you born here? I was born here. Yeah. I [00:08:30] was actually born in Guildford in Surrey, but I only stayed there for a couple of years. I lived all of my life in Essex, [00:08:35] in a place where there are. There is no one that’s Arabic. Yeah. So you are an outsider, [00:08:40] you know, in my school. Secondary school. Third worst school in Essex at the time [00:08:45] I was there was one black guy and me. [00:08:50]

Payman Langroudi: How did your parents even end up in Essex?

Teki: My dad is a is [00:08:55] a university lecturer. Oh, so he was teaching at the University of Surrey. [00:09:00] Guildford. Chemistry.

Payman Langroudi: Chemistry.

Teki: So he then [00:09:05] moved to the University of Essex, which was um, in [00:09:10] Colchester. Well it still is and, but so he moved to Colchester but it was too much to move [00:09:15] to Colchester. It was um Romford was where we decided to live there. So that’s [00:09:20] where we’ve always just.

Payman Langroudi: Did your parents run away from Iraq the same way my parents ran away from Iran? Yeah. [00:09:25]

Teki: Well, obviously my dad being a chemist. And in that situation. Yeah, Saddam Hussein [00:09:30] wanted him. He wanted him. He wanted him to make him weapons. Yeah. So it was a case where. Yeah, they had to [00:09:35] cut off from all of our family. So we’ve got no family here. It’s literally just [00:09:40] mum, dad, brother, sister And so we grew up with. No. [00:09:45] So it was unconventional actually when you think about it, no cousins, aunties, uncles, grandparents. [00:09:50] When some of my friends, you know, they lose their grandparents, I see it’s such a big thing. It’s like losing [00:09:55] a parent to them.

Payman Langroudi: I feel like, you know, it’s similar for, for for us, [00:10:00] any immigrant. Right. You haven’t got many of your family around. And the [00:10:05] same thing at work. Right. You know, we’ve got people from all over the world working here. Yeah. And [00:10:10] you end up, I find substituting your friends as family [00:10:15] sort of thing.

Teki: That’s that’s exactly what’s happened.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a closeness you get with your friends. Absolutely. [00:10:20] And it might be that they’re in a similar situation. Um, once, once we had a meeting here, [00:10:25] we were talking. It was just a work meeting, and and I don’t know, at the time, I was I [00:10:30] mean, I’ve changed my mind about that now. At the time I was saying we are a big family and [00:10:35] lighten. Yeah, I kind of changed my mind about that now, now, now I’m more into the sort of sports team [00:10:40] angle. You’re exactly like me. But I was. But I was saying to the team, you know, we’re a big family [00:10:45] here who in this room has their parents in the country? [00:10:50] Yeah. And I looked up and everyone was crying, literally, you know.

Teki: And [00:10:55] I think maybe that is, you know, you that happens. But it’s only when you speak to people in similar [00:11:00] situations do you realise actually that’s the thing. Yeah. So for me, yeah, that always has [00:11:05] been that uh, outside of feeling.

Payman Langroudi: Absolutely. And almost. You’re comfortable in the Outsider.

Teki: Yeah. [00:11:10] For me, uh, that was where that was where actually I kind of thrived. [00:11:15] And actually, what I was telling you before we went live, before.

Payman Langroudi: We started, you said you want to do something different or.

Teki: Different. [00:11:20] Yeah. You know, so for me, being successful in, for me as a personal [00:11:25] thing is, is doing something good but doing something different.

Payman Langroudi: Are you easily bored? I [00:11:30] mean, why why different.

Teki: In some in from a work point of view, from a career point of view? [00:11:35] I wouldn’t say bored, but I would say I’m constantly looking for the next thing, because I think when you’re younger [00:11:40] you think, and especially if you’ve grown up in a family that doesn’t have a lot of money, [00:11:45] you think that it’s it’s about money. So actually, we’re constantly [00:11:50] climbing a ladder of money and then it gets to a point. I was very lucky as an associate with [00:11:55] what I was earning. It’s not money. So that was a big [00:12:00] moment and it’s taken me years.

Payman Langroudi: Did the did the Instagram kick off before you [00:12:05] even owned a practice like were you Were you?

Teki: Yeah. For me.

Payman Langroudi: Were you successful before the Instagram?

Teki: Relatively [00:12:10] I was I was just I would say I was your absolute bang [00:12:15] average associate. I always wanted more, but I never had the opportunities. [00:12:20]

Payman Langroudi: And sorry to interrupt you. So carry on. So you got the money. Got [00:12:25] money. You realised money isn’t.

Teki: It’s not the.

Payman Langroudi: Be all and end.

Teki: All what drives me. [00:12:30]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Teki: Because from when we were younger again, growing up in Essex, I had everything. Designer. I [00:12:35] had a car, you know, so there was nothing that I waited for. It was like we go and get it. [00:12:40] My first job was I was 16, I worked in Nando’s. You go and do what you needed to do. So [00:12:45] now, as a 39 year old, what do I go and do? Well, I still go to Nike [00:12:50] Town and buy my trainers that I want to buy. Well, I did that when I was 17, so there’s no difference [00:12:55] really, from that point of view. What it took for me to actually [00:13:00] start to think about what is it that drives me is actually Covid? Only when you stop [00:13:05] do you actually start to think because you were so.

Payman Langroudi: Busy running.

Teki: Right? Yeah. And I was [00:13:10] on this cycle of constant obviously, like many associates are, um, [00:13:15] burnout. Oh, really constant. Yeah. The cycle of burnout. And so I was [00:13:20] working, um. How many days a week? Five. Yeah, I think five. [00:13:25]

Payman Langroudi: Is too much. Five is too much if you’re working at a at a high level. Yeah. Yeah. [00:13:30] Like if you’re doing composite bonding a lot. Yeah. For five days a week. Yeah. It’s too much. [00:13:35] Yeah. It’s too much. The focus for five days. The being lovely to patients. And [00:13:40] you want you want you know you want it to be lovely to patients. Lovely lovely to staff in that five days a week. [00:13:45] And I really don’t think anyone should do it. No.

Teki: And for me, now, that is what I mean. I [00:13:50] do train dentists, but I’m here to there’s, there’s, there’s people [00:13:55] that are way better than me about training the technical aspects. I’m almost giving people my story [00:14:00] and giving them these bits of advice that I wish I knew. It’s as simple as that in [00:14:05] terms of career, in terms of how to things like working four days a week and how [00:14:10] it is with patients and how to balance these things.

Payman Langroudi: Um, people [00:14:15] do young dentists come commonly ask you, do [00:14:20] they want to be you? Is that is that is that what they’re asking? Um, I.

Teki: Think a few years ago, [00:14:25] yes. Um, I think there was less, um, of us on [00:14:30] Instagram when it first started. We’re talking 2016. And I [00:14:35] remember it was just me and Rona. She was the first dentist that I [00:14:40] remember thinking, is there anyone else on Instagram? And that was it. But [00:14:45] now it’s different. And actually, in terms of activity, I’m [00:14:50] really not active when it comes to Instagram. Again, a bit bored of it. Like [00:14:55] owning a practice. It’s a bit same same. So unless it’s something [00:15:00] different, unless it’s something that’s going to challenge me, I’d rather not. I [00:15:05] wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Instagram, but that’s very different to. [00:15:10]

Payman Langroudi: Enjoying it, right? I mean, enjoying it. I don’t like it. I don’t like social media.

Teki: And [00:15:15] the nugget, the piece of information that I say pretty much every day to every dentist [00:15:20] therapist that I’m training to the staff, you have to enjoy what you do. You [00:15:25] will never get good at what you do if you don’t enjoy it. So if you’re not enjoying it, [00:15:30] that’s what we need to work on. And if you don’t enjoy it, go and do another job. But you do enjoy [00:15:35] it. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But then is your advice to young dentists. Find out what you enjoy first and then, [00:15:40] you know, because I give opposite advice. You you know, I say get really good at something [00:15:45] and you will enjoy that thing. You can.

Teki: Do it. You can do it either or. Absolutely. Because sometimes. [00:15:50] But I think that sometimes what happens in your career, you will accidentally fall into a practice. [00:15:55] For example, if you work with a great, fantastic implant dentist. Yeah, yeah, naturally [00:16:00] you’re going to have a go at it. Naturally. That’s how you then it will flow. You know, I don’t think [00:16:05] anyone should sort of sit there, scratch their head. I want to do. Although, no, [00:16:10] obviously that’s not the way to go about it. It definitely is a journey. But you can do it either or. But the end result [00:16:15] is you enjoy it. A lot of people don’t know. I did a year long [00:16:20] implant course early on in my career. How many [00:16:25] implants did I place? Zero. I did it spent, I think at the time, [00:16:30] ten £12,000 doing it. And then at the practice that I was at, my, [00:16:35] uh, boss was asking me to charge the same as what a specialist [00:16:40] that we used to refer to was charging. I mean, who’s going to do that? So it was completely [00:16:45] blocked, whereas if it had a similar experience [00:16:50] with ortho with composite bonding. I went to go and work for Mohsen [00:16:55] at Dream Smile and he gave me the opportunity there. He was quite chilled. All right, you [00:17:00] do what you want to do. You know, my Instagram is actually ridiculed by places that I worked at before. [00:17:05] He was a little bit like, okay, he didn’t really get it. He was like, but as [00:17:10] long as you’re in that room and as long as you make enough loads of money, do what you want to do. So he gave me the platform. [00:17:15] Yeah. So that’s what I say to these young dentist therapists. [00:17:20] You do need to be in the right environment. And I get it, I get it. [00:17:25] But you need to stay because you need to see how good you are. But [00:17:30] I have moved in my career. And guess what? The patients will come. Whereas [00:17:35] before, if you left a job, you’re leaving behind all of your data.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah.

Teki: But [00:17:40] I can say, you know, I still see now patients that I did ten years ago. [00:17:45] So I’ve still got that. So you do need to put yourself in the right environment. Having a [00:17:50] practice for me was only for that reason. It was not about money. [00:17:55] It wasn’t about anything. It was just purely about being able to work in an environment [00:18:00] that I could work four days a week, that I could control how long I want my appointments, [00:18:05] I could set the prices.

Payman Langroudi: I think a lot of people start a practice for control. [00:18:10] Mhm. And it’s surprising that little things that can piss you off as an [00:18:15] associate where and I remember being an associate where I was giving my all. [00:18:20] Yeah. To the, to the business. Not even just to my patients. I was representing the business. [00:18:25] If a nurse said something I would always take the side of the principal. Absolutely. Always [00:18:30] try and get.

Teki: And then that was me.

Payman Langroudi: And then maybe the principal did [00:18:35] something or said something small. Small. And because I was a [00:18:40] young, sensitive associate, I was like, I’m giving you my all. And, you know, I talked [00:18:45] to other people who started practices or made the jump, made the leap to start because [00:18:50] a lot of dentists do start practising. But I asked that question of what was it tends to be a control [00:18:55] question.

Teki: Yeah. And I think, listen, was it.

Payman Langroudi: Something in your head about this [00:19:00] vision of the particular practice that you wanted that was the main driver, [00:19:05] or was it the sort of work life balance, work work life balance.

Teki: For me, 100%. In fact, [00:19:10] I said to Mohsen, I said, let’s go dream small. Number two. Oh, really? In Essex [00:19:15] really? And he said no. So I was more than happy to be an associate [00:19:20] because actually at the time, I thought I couldn’t do it because [00:19:25] I’d been put down in the past by my bosses. Funny story actually is [00:19:30] relevant now because the football’s on. So maybe ten years ago it’s the World Cup. Everyone in the country [00:19:35] is in Hyde Park and England are doing really well. And I’m working at I tried to get into [00:19:40] private practice and build a list. I’ve got three patients a day. I [00:19:45] have a elderly patient who’s coming in at maybe 5:00. I’ve got, you know, patient first [00:19:50] thing, one at lunch, one at the last day. England are playing quarter finals, semi-finals. And anyone that knows me knows [00:19:55] how obsessed I am with football. I asked the reception team to move the patient, [00:20:00] and I knew that my boss at the time would be a bit annoyed. He was a bit grumpy, [00:20:05] but I didn’t think that he would go in like he did. That [00:20:10] tipped him over the edge, and one of the things that he said to me was, you [00:20:15] see, that’s why you’ll never have your own practice because of the way you are as a person. [00:20:20]

Payman Langroudi: And that became a major driver for you. Wow.

Teki: For me, [00:20:25] actually, it didn’t.

Payman Langroudi: Oh it didn’t.

Teki: What? That did, I believed him. [00:20:30]

Payman Langroudi: Oh. Dented your confidence. To the point.

Teki: Where I said to Mohsen, you buy another practice, [00:20:35] I.

Payman Langroudi: See.

Teki: I’ll be your number two. There was no choice. I couldn’t be anybody’s [00:20:40] number two anymore.

Payman Langroudi: So you actively went looking [00:20:45] or did something fall in your lap? How did the first techie start? Yeah.

Teki: It [00:20:50] was. It was an interesting one. I called, um, I think it was Frank Taylor at the time [00:20:55] that I called, and I said, this is a little bit different, but I’m looking for a practice [00:21:00] that doesn’t have any patients because I’ve got patients. The [00:21:05] problem that I had was at the time, you couldn’t get the license easily for a premises. [00:21:10] It needed a D1 license.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. Which was this?

Teki: Sorry. This was so this [00:21:15] must have been 2019. Is it before Covid? So I was looking for premises [00:21:20] and I applied for change of use at a property in Essex. They [00:21:25] said no the council. So it was basically you have to buy an existing. [00:21:30] But I didn’t want any goodwill.

Payman Langroudi: You want to pay for goodwill.

Teki: Do you want to pay for goodwill because. [00:21:35] Well, I couldn’t actually, you know, treat them because they might be wanting root canals, which I hadn’t [00:21:40] been doing for a few years.

Payman Langroudi: So had you already at this point, you were focussed in on Invisalign [00:21:45] and composite bonding mainly.

Teki: Yeah, yeah. For me, I was exclusively probably [00:21:50] for about five years just doing aligners as [00:21:55] an associate.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, interesting.

Teki: And it was that was that was me. It was [00:22:00] just my diary was just Invisalign and composite bonding. So [00:22:05] that’s what the practice had to be because I already had the patients. Now they had already [00:22:10] come from either Instagram, so they were going to follow or they’d come with me from before. So [00:22:15] it was it was a it was a tricky situation because now I had to [00:22:20] be able to deal with them and there was a lot of them. So [00:22:25] I found this practice that luckily was perfect for [00:22:30] what I needed the location a A lot of people say, oh is it? Did you buy the practice [00:22:35] because it’s close to Arsenal? Because they know, obviously, how obsessed I am? No, but [00:22:40] it was just there. It was two surgeries. It was ready, hardly had any patients. [00:22:45] And that was that.

Payman Langroudi: Did you know that part of London? Well, by this time, [00:22:50] where did you live before?

Teki: Just all Essex. It’s for me. I’ve only lived.

Payman Langroudi: You were living in [00:22:55] Essex with this. All all right?

Teki: Live it. All I’ve ever done is either lived in Essex. Five years in Sheffield, [00:23:00] back to Essex. That’s me.

Payman Langroudi: And you still live in Essex now?

Teki: And I still live in Essex.

Payman Langroudi: Commute to Islington. [00:23:05] Yeah. Okay.

Teki: And that’s actually another one of the reasons that actually I’m [00:23:10] not finding the time to be able to do the other things that I want to do in the career [00:23:15] and in life is commuting. You know, we were just talking about it before. It’s a pain when you [00:23:20] add it up in in a week, it’s a lot, you know, what can you do in that time? [00:23:25] And one thing about me is I’m not shy of making bold decisions. [00:23:30] So, you know, when people are surprised, they might hear about a decision that I’ve [00:23:35] made as a rumour, maybe. And then they’re like, no, surely not. And then they think, [00:23:40] yeah, actually, because I’m not scared to do that. It might be slightly against what other people are doing [00:23:45] now, but that’s fine as long as I’m happy with that decision. That’s where we are today. [00:23:50]

Payman Langroudi: What surprised you the most about business ownership? Like what were you most [00:23:55] not prepared for?

Teki: Probably the same thing that every single business owner is going [00:24:00] to tell you. I was that guy when I worked for somebody, whether I worked in Nando’s [00:24:05] or whether I worked for Mohsin at Dream Smile, I treated it like it was my [00:24:10] practice. You either got it or you don’t. Once, [00:24:15] maybe a year ago, we were having a staff meeting. We were in a rush. We needed to get some food, so I ordered subway. [00:24:20] I haven’t ordered subway for years. Subway came and [00:24:25] I opened up the the sandwich, and then I kind of rewrapped [00:24:30] it, and I got all the stuff. And I said to him, look at this. It was [00:24:35] wrapped to perfection. There was a little triangle sticker inside. All the [00:24:40] tomatoes were all laid out perfect, like you see on an advert. Yeah. Now, normally when you [00:24:45] go to subway or you go to some, what do they do? Shove it all in, squash it down. Off you go. [00:24:50] And I said to him, look at this person in subway. They’re going places in life because [00:24:55] look at the attention to detail. And it reminded me when I was [00:25:00] working in Nando’s I used to be bothered. Mhm. You’re either bothered [00:25:05] or you’re not. And that is one thing that very, very quickly, when I have somebody to work for [00:25:10] me, I realised they’re either bothered or they’re not. If they’re bothered you can work with [00:25:15] them if they’re not. Now obviously when you’ve got a bigger [00:25:20] business and this is been my biggest challenge, is you can have a small team that are bothered. Yeah, [00:25:25] okay. Now try and get yourself a big team that’s bothered. Where are we going with all [00:25:30] this. Can you have quality and quantity? For [00:25:35] me it depends what your definition of quality is. What’s your [00:25:40] definition. Yeah. For me and and the definition of quality is a personal definition. [00:25:45] Yeah. For me I can say that I can’t have [00:25:50] more than a practice, more than one practice [00:25:55] that’s bigger than four surgeries and still maintain the quality that I want to give [00:26:00] to my patients.

Payman Langroudi: You’re not up to it. Yeah.

Teki: I it’s either [00:26:05] I’m not up to it, or I can’t find the people that are going to be able to match the [00:26:10] standards that I want for them to give to my patients.

Payman Langroudi: But do you accept? It’s possible, but you’re [00:26:15] just not up to it.

Teki: It’s possible. Yeah, but you have to know your own limitations. [00:26:20] At what module did I go to? Dental school, and what year or what? [00:26:25] What lecture did they give you on how to run a business?

Payman Langroudi: I’m with you, dude. I’m with you. Look at enlightened. [00:26:30] There’s many things I can’t do. Yeah, yeah. Lucky for me, I’ve got a co-founder. [00:26:35] Yeah, yeah. And he’s got very opposite skills to me. But if you walk into, [00:26:40] uh, Louis Vuitton in, uh, Rio de Janeiro, the standard will be the same [00:26:45] as if you walk into it in Bombay. Absolutely. And they’ve pulled it off, you know, they now okay [00:26:50] buying it, buying a handbag is not the same as having composite. But I get that, I get that. And [00:26:55] by the way, by the way there’s no issue with wanting one perfect place. Yeah, yeah. You know, I’ve had people in [00:27:00] this room get fantastically successful in everywhere, and they focus on one perfect [00:27:05] place. But, you know, what would be interesting is when you train people. [00:27:10] Yeah. Other dentists. Mhm. What. No one’s going to be you. Right. Because [00:27:15] you’re you. Yeah. But what is it. What are the, what are the six points. What are, what are [00:27:20] the tomatoes lining up on the subway sub and the folding equivalents [00:27:25] in dentistry. Like, is it teachable to have e.q. [00:27:30] Because I feel like you’ve got a lot of EQ.

Teki: Absolutely. I think it’s it’s pretty much we’ve touched on [00:27:35] those. It’s you’ve got to enjoy things. Yeah. You’ve got to enjoy it. But you’re right. [00:27:40]

Payman Langroudi: You’ve got to pick the right dentist. I get that right attitude you got. But then after that have you managed to sort of [00:27:45] even in that for surgery place, have you managed to have like touch points say look A, [00:27:50] B, C and D need to happen. Yes, absolutely. Consultation. Oh I’ve.

Teki: Written handbooks. [00:27:55]

Payman Langroudi: Have you, have you, have you.

Teki: But who’s going to implement them. Well that’s another team. Yeah [00:28:00] yeah yeah. You know we’re a business here. And at the end of the day, like how many people can you fit into [00:28:05] a space. So I expanded. It was two surgeries and [00:28:10] I. What you’re thinking and which is what people told me we needed the space. [00:28:15] Okay. So fine. We got the space so that we could carry. We could have offices so that we could have [00:28:20] this kind of level of operations. But then if you’ve got more space, you’ve got more overheads. [00:28:25] You need to fill those surgeries up. All you’re going to do then is to dilute the [00:28:30] quality, potentially, if you don’t find the right person. All of it is [00:28:35] leading. To what? For me? Distraction. It’s distracting [00:28:40] me from doing what I’m doing now. What I teach the younger guys that [00:28:45] ask me for advice is you’re is is not to think that the [00:28:50] grass is greener. If somebody says to me, you know, but I need a practice. No you don’t. [00:28:55] I was happy as an associate. And it’s a very, very good thing to be an associate. [00:29:00]

Payman Langroudi: Agreed.

Teki: Don’t be. And I say to them, don’t be [00:29:05] in a relationship and want to be single. And don’t be single. Wishing that you were in a relationship. [00:29:10] When you’re single, enjoy it. When you’re in a relationship, be in the relationship. Same [00:29:15] thing with associate and owning a practice. Enjoy it to the max. So [00:29:20] that’s the first thing I sit down with, with whoever it is that we’re talking to, and we go through their career [00:29:25] and how they’re doing things, but it’s about them being them. That’s [00:29:30] the power. That’s exactly what you said. Too many dentists. That’s the problem [00:29:35] with social media are trying to copy. You’re right. You can’t be me. Is [00:29:40] there space? Of course there is. That’s why people buy fake handbags. There’s nothing wrong with that. [00:29:45] But you can’t then pretend there’s the problem. The problem is, is when you go to your friends [00:29:50] and say that it’s real. No. Own it. If you. If you think it’s silly to spend that [00:29:55] much money on it. And it’s the same thing with with being a boo. Oh, but I [00:30:00] can’t do what you do. I can’t do people that know me.

Teki: I’m very shy. When’s [00:30:05] the last time that you saw me pick up the phone and say, hi, everyone. Welcome to Tuesday. Guess what I’m [00:30:10] doing today? I’m coming to do a podcast with no. People won’t know about it until it’s actually [00:30:15] been released, but that’s okay because that’s me and it’s authentic. [00:30:20] Yeah. If I was like that and then and I always say to them, I say to them, look, whatever you are [00:30:25] on social media, you have to make sure that what that patient sees [00:30:30] is the important thing. The patients is what they see. If they see me being [00:30:35] funny and having a sense of humour and being loud, and then they walk in after [00:30:40] waiting a year, travelling wherever and then realising that actually I’m quite dry and [00:30:45] quiet, well, then they’re going to think, well, what else isn’t real? Actually, maybe those photos [00:30:50] are edited. Maybe that composite isn’t real. So you’re breaking that chain of authenticity. [00:30:55] It’s about being exactly what you said, you being you and [00:31:00] capturing that and not being same, same. Be a bit different. That’s that’s the power of it. [00:31:05]

Payman Langroudi: Let’s move on to your skill sets. Skill set. Very interesting. [00:31:10] I’d say you’ve got at least at least 3 or 4 superpowers, right? Um, [00:31:15] and I’m going to ask. It’s a bit of an unfair question I’ve been asking, but [00:31:20] I like it quite a lot. It’s it’s around sort of aha moment. Like if you had to put it down [00:31:25] to one moment, aha it just for you as the crux and I’d like [00:31:30] to go into social media um Invisalign or aligner treatment, composite [00:31:35] bonding. What comes to mind when I say what was the moment when something clicked in your head and said, [00:31:40] oh, I get that. Now I understand what what’s the key thing in that?

Teki: Yeah, I think [00:31:45] two things. One of them is like one of them’s a little bit deeper. The more like one is actually [00:31:50] a good bit of advice for anybody that’s listening. If they don’t know, trust the experts. Um, [00:31:55] I think just just because we have a five year degree, just [00:32:00] because we have been to university, just because we are potentially high earners in society, doesn’t [00:32:05] mean that we know everything. How many dentists think they’re the best at marketing? Yeah. How many [00:32:10] dentists think they’re the best at being a businessman when they’re not? Yeah. [00:32:15] And that for me, is probably one of my biggest strengths, is that [00:32:20] I stay. Once I did a podcast, actually, the. It was Sandeep, my smile. [00:32:25] Oh, you did the podcast. And he said one thing about you, he was like, you’re always in your own lane. [00:32:30] And I was like, yeah, I know that. I can only do this and this, [00:32:35] and I do it really well. Is there a one trick pony? Yeah. That’s me.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:32:40] trust the expert. But in terms of social media, what was what was it that and what is it that made [00:32:45] you grow so quickly. Or what’s an aha bit of.

Teki: Well you see it’s linked to that [00:32:50] because when with social media some people know the story, some people don’t. But [00:32:55] with social media that was accidental because actually as a as a, as an individual, I don’t have social media [00:33:00] on a personal level. So I had at the time that I was starting [00:33:05] to do a line of treatment, composite treatment. I went through a situation [00:33:10] where I was working in a practice that wasn’t really supportive. It was a tricky one to work [00:33:15] in, but I had some patients that really believed in me. So what they so what they did [00:33:20] essentially is they took it for me and ran away with it.

Payman Langroudi: What? They started [00:33:25] your page. That’s it.

Teki: So the patient saw what I was doing. And then the sad part of it is [00:33:30] that at the time, I was diagnosed with cancer.

Payman Langroudi: Well. [00:33:35]

Teki: So that’s a key thing here. And I always say to [00:33:40] the, you know, it doesn’t have to be that deep. It can be burnout, it can be an illness, it can be something. [00:33:45] But don’t let that be the driving force. Don’t let rock bottom be there. Try and get there just before it gets [00:33:50] really bad. But then when I was diagnosed with that, obviously my [00:33:55] mind was elsewhere. The friends that I had at the time were [00:34:00] having a problem. The patients wanted to come to see me, but they [00:34:05] were calling the practice saying we want to go and see teki. And the practice was saying, oh, well, [00:34:10] you can’t see Turkey because he’s busy, he’s fully booked, he’s not well, whatever, but you can see his boss. So [00:34:15] then it was getting back round to me to be like, they don’t want to see anyone else. They want to see you. It’s [00:34:20] a fair point. So I said, look, what can I do? What [00:34:25] can I do? One day I’ll have my own place. But right now this is just a situation. And at the minute I’ve [00:34:30] got bigger things to worry about. Right. They said, send me them pictures. The ones you [00:34:35] know. Remember them before and after pictures with the black background. And I remember showing them a few pictures. [00:34:40] There was no Instagram. I just had them on my camera. They took it away and [00:34:45] they said, right, we’ve sorted it. We’ve started you an Instagram page. [00:34:50] And at the time, obviously I thought, okay, whatever, not that important, [00:34:55] by the way. What have you called it? They said teeth by Teki. And [00:35:00] I said no way.

Payman Langroudi: Didn’t like it.

Teki: Sounds cheesy now. [00:35:05] Kate, who was one of the girls? There was two. Two of my friends. One of them’s Kate, who’s actually now married to Rio Ferdinand. [00:35:10] She was quite she had a she was doing The Only Way Is Essex. So she was [00:35:15] using Instagram really well when it was first started. And then my other friend Michaela, [00:35:20] so they together came along and put this together for me. And I remember Kate [00:35:25] saying to me, I know, Instagram, you don’t trust [00:35:30] the experts. It was catchy. And then here we are [00:35:35] years later. Now, if I insisted on my idea at the time, I wouldn’t [00:35:40] have done it and b I would have called it something I don’t know, whatever I thought was good. [00:35:45] But they’re the experts and they were the experts at the time. So there is that that was a very and that lesson [00:35:50] has always stayed with me.

Payman Langroudi: Bounding is a funny thing because, you know, in [00:35:55] social social’s about people. So teeth by teki. It’s a perfect right. [00:36:00] But but then if you were going to open a chain of dental practices, I think it would be difficult [00:36:05] because people will want teki all the time, right? Yeah. It’s a funny thing. Do you want to talk about cancer? [00:36:10]

Teki: Yeah. Why not? I, um, it was a. [00:36:15] Maybe. I mean, you shouldn’t you shouldn’t say that you needed to go [00:36:20] through it, but it was definitely. If I didn’t if it didn’t happen to me, I wouldn’t be here. Because in a nutshell, [00:36:25] what it gives you is that. Fuck it. What’s the worst that’s going to happen?

Payman Langroudi: Hardens [00:36:30] you up. What does me.

Teki: Up? I was soft. You you didn’t get softer than me. [00:36:35] People pleaser. I was the definition of a people pleaser. Really?

Payman Langroudi: That was me. But [00:36:40] what did it mean to you? Did you have to take lots of time off? Were you worried you’re going to die? What was it for me? [00:36:45]

Teki: I think for me, what it what it it was a shock. [00:36:50] You feel that you’re invincible. You know, you’re young. At the time, I don’t know what I was 20, late 20s. You’re [00:36:55] in your prime. You’ve only just died to make some money. You’re. You’ve got over university. [00:37:00] You’ve got a house. You know, you’ve kind of got all that. But there was just something wrong. And [00:37:05] actually, I mean, so it was a rare type of skin cancer [00:37:10] that I had, which is not related to sunlight exposure. My [00:37:15] treatment was at the Royal Marsden. I mean, they’re incredible. I wouldn’t obviously wouldn’t be here. [00:37:20] I still have to go for sort of regular checks. But I kept on asking the consultant. [00:37:25]

Payman Langroudi: Why? Why did it happen?

Teki: I’m not. They kept on saying to me, you’re not. [00:37:30] There’s no history. You’re not the right skin type, wrong age, [00:37:35] not an area that gets exposed to sunlight. Why? For [00:37:40] me, the more I read into it, the more I asked about it, the more I did whatever I did my [00:37:45] personal research, it led me to one thing and one thing only trauma.

Payman Langroudi: Stress. [00:37:50]

Teki: Some people internalise things. Yeah, [00:37:55] and I do. And I was having, you know, the standard one is problems with your stomach. Oh, I had [00:38:00] it all. Cameras this way, cameras that way. Everything. But [00:38:05] it can also do more. Sure. And I personally believe [00:38:10] now if it wasn’t for the trauma and the stress that I was going through and the people pleasing, [00:38:15] why would I get it? Never smoked. No. No nothing. [00:38:20] No alcohol, no smoking. Like how does this work in operation? [00:38:25]

Payman Langroudi: Sorry. You have an operation. You had an.

Teki: Operation? I had a few operations. [00:38:30]

Payman Langroudi: Chemotherapy, radiotherapy and chemotherapy.

Teki: Now they. I [00:38:35] think that bit will just leave. Yeah. Leave it alone. Yeah. A little bit too much.

Payman Langroudi: How [00:38:40] long were you off for?

Teki: Um, I [00:38:45] still struggled into work. I [00:38:50] just, I think for me, the biggest thing at the time, which is crazy. Now, looking back [00:38:55] at it, I thought I was going to lose my job.

Payman Langroudi: With that focussed on your job. [00:39:00]

Teki: That shows how bothered I was. Mhm. And it’s so strange because [00:39:05] now when something happens at the practice, what, what the girls or the staff [00:39:10] might say oh my God this happened. And they think that it’s really a big deal. I say oh [00:39:15] they’re like you’re so not bothered. Of course I’m not bothered. [00:39:20]

Payman Langroudi: You’ve been through something. You’ve been through the war. The little. [00:39:25] The little battle doesn’t.

Teki: There was something that was bigger than that. That’s a little bit why [00:39:30] I paused after I got better and recovered. [00:39:35] I fell into depression. It’s common, though.

Payman Langroudi: Common because, [00:39:40] you know, when people go through medical problems, they [00:39:45] to just to survive that moment, you have to hold it together.

Teki: There was a lot going [00:39:50] on. Yeah, I had issues with my family. I had problems at work. [00:39:55] Um, I had there was just [00:40:00] a lot going on. And you’re you’re you’re you’re fighting your way through it [00:40:05] and you put on that face some of my patients, after I told them afterwards, they were like, oh my God, I didn’t [00:40:10] even realise. Yeah, you’re really good at putting a face on, but it’s going to come out at some [00:40:15] point. So I crashed.

Payman Langroudi: How did that how did that sort of manifest? Would [00:40:20] you not want to get out of bed in the morning.

Teki: Yeah, we’re talking severe. We’re talking. I couldn’t get out [00:40:25] of bed without medication. And I had to work [00:40:30] limited hours. I had Had no money. Yeah. [00:40:35] Like, where else can I say it was? It was rock bottom from every single [00:40:40] point of view. What got me out of it, friends, [00:40:45] that I didn’t necessarily think would be the friends that would get me out of it.

Payman Langroudi: They [00:40:50] say that, and they say you find out who your real friends are, and I did.

Teki: Yeah, [00:40:55] I did. And here’s one. My patience. So [00:41:00] when people are like, oh, you know, I’m indebted to. Listen, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Instagram. [00:41:05] Whoever it was that created it most in that dream. Smile big part of my career gave [00:41:10] me a platform, allowed me to be that associate that did what I did. Invisalign. [00:41:15] Haven’t used Invisalign for over two years. I will never [00:41:20] forget what they did, but in terms of who I owe [00:41:25] my career to and why I’m here now, and why I live the life that I do and [00:41:30] I’m healthy. It’s the constant backing of my patients. What [00:41:35] can I say? Well, you.

Payman Langroudi: Know what we said before. When you haven’t got family [00:41:40] around, you substitute.

Teki: They are.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s interesting you’re saying your patients because, you know, there’s [00:41:45] there’s a, there’s a, there’s a link between dentist and patient that can be very [00:41:50] strong. Right. Yeah.

Teki: And our patient base is, you [00:41:55] know, we’ve got, we’ve got, we’ve got, you know, between 20 and 40 their [00:42:00] recommendations. They’ve come through social media. They’re friends of friends. You know. They are they’re [00:42:05] great people. They’re great patients. And they’re all going through similar things in life. Um, [00:42:10] so yeah, they they are what make the place. So everything that I do now [00:42:15] from a work point of view. Before I used to do [00:42:20] too much for the team and I used to focus. I used to base it on. Right. [00:42:25] What do my team want? What does the associate need? What does the nurses need? Actually, now. No, I got that [00:42:30] wrong. You base it around your patients.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:42:35] Yeah, of course, of course.

Teki: But it’s back to the people pleasing now.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:42:40] mad that I said I started out this podcast by saying I’m watching you from afar. [00:42:45] Yeah, I’m watching you from afar. I heard in my head. But tastically happy, [00:42:50] successful career. You know what? It’s even though we all [00:42:55] know no career is like that. No. Life is without bumps. Yeah you do sometimes [00:43:00] get that feeling. When I looked at you, I thought, this kid is blessed, you know? Blessed. Yeah. Not [00:43:05] not lucky. Yeah. Not lucky. Then lucky is not enough. Yeah. To get, [00:43:10] like, sustained success. Yeah, yeah. But blessed, you know that he’s good [00:43:15] at what he does. He’s landed in the right places. And now you told me this story and and [00:43:20] you know, it’s important. It’s important to remember that.

Teki: It’s a it’s a struggle. [00:43:25] And for those that know that have had any of those two medical conditions, they [00:43:30] don’t really just go, you never really cured. You know, you’re constantly worried. You’re always [00:43:35] scared. Yeah. There’s, there’s there’s always that that, that that chance that things [00:43:40] you have to appreciate your body. But for me, more importantly. So a lot of people [00:43:45] what do they do. Okay. Right. I’m going to be healthy. I’m going to go to the gym. I’m going to eat well after they’ve [00:43:50] had a heart attack or whatever they do. For me, it’s simple. I need [00:43:55] to eliminate the stress, the trauma, the people pleasing. That [00:44:00] is my key to success as a person and as a clinician. As a businessman, [00:44:05] I have to do that. It’s difficult, very, very difficult. You’ve got to say no. [00:44:10] You’ve got to make some brave decisions. But if anybody wants [00:44:15] any proof of that and how it can go right, everything that I’ve done that’s gone [00:44:20] right in my career is when I’ve gone against what people say. You’ve [00:44:25] got to trust your gut.

Payman Langroudi: And you think that these, this stuff that’s [00:44:30] happened to you is now informing your decisions going forward in a way that you [00:44:35] wouldn’t have done. Like, for instance, you could have just gone into the next [00:44:40] practice, next practice, next practice. But you’re telling me that doesn’t interest you?

Teki: You know why? I mean, listen, it’s a [00:44:45] silly reason. I am quite artistic, I love tattoos, the main reason I have the tattoos, I don’t [00:44:50] really mean too much to anybody else. They’re a reminder for me this. And if you’ve got to put it on your [00:44:55] body to remind yourself of what you went through and so that it helps your decision making [00:45:00] in the future, do what you need to do. My mum hates them, but that’s what they’re there for.

Payman Langroudi: Really. [00:45:05]

Teki: After you’ve got to stay like that, it’s a slippery slope. [00:45:10] And I was lucky enough to escape before. Blessed. Don’t [00:45:15] make that mistake again.

Payman Langroudi: When you look back [00:45:20] and think. What was my hardest day? What comes to mind? [00:45:25]

Teki: I was an associate, probably 2 or 3 years qualified, [00:45:30] probably quite standard story, unfortunately, but at the time I [00:45:35] felt like I was the only one in the world and it literally got [00:45:40] me. I was working for an old lady dentist and [00:45:45] she she was close to retiring. She wanted to sell me the practice. [00:45:50] Very old school. We’re talking paper notes. We’re talking, you know, you’re [00:45:55] going back in time. And I went in there. I worked a day, a week just [00:46:00] to cover for her when she would go on her cruises, etc.. I [00:46:05] was popular there, you know, the patients saw a fresh approach. They saw something different. Then [00:46:10] all of a sudden, she changed their mind. So decided [00:46:15] that she wasn’t going to sell me for whatever reason. My problem at all. And [00:46:20] therefore I left. And we all know what happens when you leave a practice. She [00:46:25] didn’t give me my money. She didn’t pay you and pay me. What was the reason [00:46:30] she said that? What I’d been. I’d called it, I was [00:46:35] called I. I’d caused a mess, ruined people’s teeth, and she’d have to go [00:46:40] back in there, redo everybody’s treatment that I’d done.

Payman Langroudi: Which [00:46:45] amount of money didn’t she pay the retainer? Sort of money and a month’s wages as well?

Teki: Yeah, she was very, [00:46:50] very like she used to pay me by cheque. Um, so you get what we’re talking here. There wasn’t [00:46:55] really no contract. Anything like that.

Payman Langroudi: Happens all the time, doesn’t.

Teki: It? Happens.

Payman Langroudi: So. [00:47:00] Okay, what happened anyway?

Teki: She said you pay me the money. Yeah. Which was equated [00:47:05] to something like 12, £15,000. If you don’t, I’m going to whistle blow. [00:47:10] I’m going to the GDC and telling them how you have [00:47:15] done all this. Do you think.

Payman Langroudi: She believed it?

Teki: Yeah, she [00:47:20] believed it. I think when people lies, it gets to a point where they believe it. And [00:47:25] you have people around you that are going to confirm that, and they’re going to [00:47:30] come and they’re going to go. Yeah. Exactly. That it was it was what was it?

Payman Langroudi: What was it that you’d done that made [00:47:35] her think that.

Teki: The main thing, the main thing was the use of gizzy. So [00:47:40] obviously I come from a situation where you worked on the NHS. I don’t know what it’s like now, [00:47:45] but you could stabilise. For example, you’ve got a pregnant lady, okay? You’ve got pregnant lady. [00:47:50] Big carriers cavity. What do you put in there? You’ve got amalgam. Can’t carries. [00:47:55] You can’t because their oral hygiene is not satisfactory. So what do you do. You put GRC, [00:48:00] you stabilise. This is Rosen modified GRC. I don’t know if they still got it now Rosen modified. [00:48:05] You take your three udas. It was at the time. And then when she’s. And [00:48:10] that’s it She considered that me putting temporary fillings in to [00:48:15] people’s mouths. That was the main point. We’re talking two years [00:48:20] of not sleeping well and battered my confidence. Any [00:48:25] confidence that I had as a dentist was gone. I was I was shot to pieces and [00:48:30] it went through Dental Dental protection was who I was, who I had my indemnity with at the [00:48:35] time. There was nothing. They just said, this is purely a [00:48:40] young associate versus somebody that’s about to retire.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:48:45] for two years it went back and forth. And in the end.

Teki: Because because what would happen. And you get this with patients. [00:48:50] You know, when you get an Aggie patient, you reply to them in to within a day, within [00:48:55] an hour. Quick quick quick quick. Yeah. And then if you ever had it where they take three weeks to reply? Yeah. [00:49:00] But that’s all right because they’re not held accountable by the same thing. And it’s exactly [00:49:05] the same thing in her situation. And it is an issue that I had with the profession. I [00:49:10] felt very, very let down. Okay. So now that we [00:49:15] know that she was lying, and now that we know that she put me through all of this, shouldn’t [00:49:20] she go to the GDC?

Payman Langroudi: But I thought you said she believed it.

Teki: She believed it. [00:49:25]

Payman Langroudi: She wasn’t lying as far as she was concerned.

Teki: But when it was found. But then when it was incorrect. [00:49:30] But then when it was taken to the experts. Yeah. Now what? Anyway, [00:49:35] listen, whatever, whatever happened, happened. It was a tough, tough lesson. And [00:49:40] you go from that, then you you don’t even know if you want to be a dentist. Mhm. [00:49:45] Now when there’s people that leave the career it’s quite sad. Very very sad. That [00:49:50] was it could have been me.

Payman Langroudi: I think that when you feel like you’re doing [00:49:55] your best and then someone either a patient or in fact it’s even worse when it’s a dentist [00:50:00] or a colleague suggests that you were somehow not doing that. Yeah. [00:50:05] And it’s a it’s a horrible feeling. I had it once with a patient where [00:50:10] I felt like I was in my very best first patient, and a letter came in and [00:50:15] it kind of made out that. And it’s weird, man, because I gave up dentistry 13 [00:50:20] years ago. Yeah, it’s I still think about that letter. Yeah.

Teki: And [00:50:25] that’s not such a bad thing. You care. You know, if you care about something, then obviously [00:50:30] it’s going to upset you and obviously you’re going to think about it. But there is a thing about [00:50:35] caring too much. Yeah. And all of this was contributing to my trauma. [00:50:40]

Payman Langroudi: Did you know you were a sinus head and had [00:50:45] anxiety or. No. Was it even you yourself didn’t know you were burying?

Teki: It was not a thing. People a lot of people [00:50:50] think I’m younger than I am. I’m 39. So when I was growing up and when I was in my 20s, there [00:50:55] was no such thing. You know, I grew up, all of my friends were were male. We [00:51:00] played football together growing up with a family that’s, you know, Arabic. There’s [00:51:05] no such thing. There is no such even probably to this day. If you ask my parents.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right, you’re right. [00:51:10] It’s either in our cultures, they say either you’re crazy or not. Yeah, and [00:51:15] those are the two positions. Yeah.

Teki: That was that was it. Yeah. And that’s and [00:51:20] that’s that’s that’s sad. But listen, if what I’ve been through is going to help one person to be like, [00:51:25] actually, you know what? I’m not crazy. They need to know, you know, anybody that’s listening to [00:51:30] this younger, younger guys, especially girls, guys and girls, it [00:51:35] doesn’t happen like no one gets successful. No one [00:51:40] gets good at anything, especially in a career in dentistry. Without going through these things, [00:51:45] it’s just not going to happen. So if that helps them and gives [00:51:50] them a bit of confidence or whatever they’re going through right now, they might be going through a case right now with the GDC, you [00:51:55] know, Touchwood, I’ve never had that, but I can only imagine what that’s [00:52:00] like because I know what I went through with the potential of it going that far. The sleepless nights [00:52:05] and but all I would say is, is, is look for those [00:52:10] people that are truly going to be there for you. And it might not be the people that you think. [00:52:15] For me, it wasn’t my parents. I’ve got a good relationship with my parents now, but I’ll tell [00:52:20] you what, it wasn’t them that got me out of this.

Payman Langroudi: What do you think that was? They didn’t understand.

Teki: Didn’t understand it. [00:52:25] You can’t blame somebody that doesn’t understand something. No interest in understanding [00:52:30] it. Some would say. Yeah. Still your parents still love them. I don’t understand [00:52:35] what some things are like in life, but, you know, it’s all about, you know, seeing it from somebody else’s [00:52:40] perspective. And they gets to a point where you’ve just got to be like, okay, they’re different. [00:52:45] And. And, you know, we should celebrate that. You know, somebody in the [00:52:50] profession, if somebody’s in their career wants to do a particular thing, you know, let’s encourage them. Let’s not [00:52:55] put them down. Let’s encourage them. Let’s help them. There isn’t really that help. When I was, you [00:53:00] know, growing in my career, that’s the shame. Whereas I feel like now there is that support. I [00:53:05] think there’s a lot of dentists I’ve listened on this podcast, especially that are, you know, inspirational, [00:53:10] that are there. I’m sure that if anybody messaged them, I know I’m the first person to help [00:53:15] anybody that needs any help in any part of the. There was no one like that when I was [00:53:20] working my way through the career. No. No way.

Payman Langroudi: I think the other thing is we need [00:53:25] to take fear a little bit out of the equation as well. Yeah, because, you know, I had Linda [00:53:30] Cruz on. Yes. And he told me that GDC situation is completely different to [00:53:35] what it was. It’s so different in like six years ago when it was a peaking, [00:53:40] it was peak.

Teki: Yeah, I was there. Yeah. Yeah, I was there. The fear was there.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But even the young guys [00:53:45] I mean, when you talk to trainers, I had some can’t cons. You know him? He’s a vet, [00:53:50] uh, trainer. And he was saying they had to introduce quotas for vets. [00:53:55] Yeah, of complex treatment, because everyone was so scared of doing anything [00:54:00] more than fillings and scaling, I see it.

Teki: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So. So we need to take fear out of it a little [00:54:05] bit for the younger guys. Yeah. Because you know you can’t go into dentistry scared. [00:54:10]

Teki: We talk about the younger guys. How many messages do I get? Or phone [00:54:15] calls or meeting up at shows where people say to me, you’ve left Invisalign, [00:54:20] but how? But why? But but but but, but, but all the patients want Invisalign. [00:54:25]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, let’s talk about Invisalign.

Teki: That’s the fear. Yeah, yeah. That’s in people that have got I’ve [00:54:30] got I’ve had conversations with people. I’ve got 20 practices. Yeah. Yeah. They’re scared. [00:54:35] Yeah. So it’s not just the younger generation.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right, you’re right. Sometimes. Sometimes the more successful [00:54:40] you get, the more scared you get because you’ve got more to lose, right?

Teki: More to lose.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [00:54:45] talk about this line of treatment Invisalign. First of all, let’s talk about just clinically. Yeah I want a clinical [00:54:50] aha. Um, moment that [00:54:55] you realised.

Teki: It’s very recent.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, wow. Good.

Teki: Very [00:55:00] recent. Good. When we’re doing a line of treatment or [00:55:05] orthodontics. If. Biomechanics. Yeah, it’s actually [00:55:10] understanding how teeth move. And you know what we focus [00:55:15] on because we’re very kind of we’re humans. [00:55:20] We kind of focus on what we see. And what do we see when we look in the patient’s mouth? The [00:55:25] teeth. Crowns. Crowns? Yeah. What do we forget?

Payman Langroudi: Roots. [00:55:30]

Teki: Which make up.

Payman Langroudi: Three quarters of the tooth.

Teki: That [00:55:35] for me in a single answer, is the reason why I switched. [00:55:40]

Payman Langroudi: It’s very interesting because, as you say, if you if you’re looking at a clincheck and you’re [00:55:45] seeing these roots, you’ve seen these teeth move around, you could be forgiven for thinking [00:55:50] that’s what’s moving and forgetting what’s going on. Orthodontists always talk about this. What’s going. [00:55:55]

Teki: On? Being a general and not an orthodontist. Yeah, the [00:56:00] roots exist. The patients have roots.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. One [00:56:05] thing I’m not clear on is that, you know, you’ve got crestal bone. That’s the dense bone, and then you’ve got the sort of spongy [00:56:10] layer underneath. Butcher butchering it. I am butchering it, but. But when, [00:56:15] when a tooth moves in, in bone, is there like a pivot point on the [00:56:20] crestal.

Teki: Bone for every tooth? Is that correct? And and, uh, depends if you’re talking in the maxilla [00:56:25] or the mandible. Different bones, of course. Of course. Then you’re talking about the shapes of the roots. Then [00:56:30] you’re talking about what is the force that’s pushing it? Is it a fixed appliance? That’s when [00:56:35] you’re talking about different types of brackets with prescriptions in them. Is it.

Payman Langroudi: Directional.

Teki: Aligners? [00:56:40] Yeah. You honestly it is you two, two and a half years ago [00:56:45] my eyes were just opened.

Payman Langroudi: And was was it the [00:56:50] the clean check of spark that did that to you or what happened?

Teki: What was the moment? Listen, [00:56:55] the truth is I fell out with Invisalign.

Payman Langroudi: Not to do with the product itself. [00:57:00]

Teki: Not to do with the product itself. The product was. It was just what I [00:57:05] knew. Yeah, it was just what everybody was doing and it was okay. We [00:57:10] obviously it can’t be us, can it? So if somebody needs [00:57:15] a refinement and another round of aligners and it doesn’t work, it can only be two things. It can either [00:57:20] be the patient not wearing them or it can be. The Invisalign has got limitations. It [00:57:25] can never be us as dentists can it? Surely it’s not our education that’s not quite there. [00:57:30] So for me, [00:57:35] yeah, that was kind of, um, you.

Payman Langroudi: Want to talk about the falling out or not?

Teki: I [00:57:40] mean, I mean, listen, in terms of falling out, some of my some of my closest friends [00:57:45] work for Invisalign still. And like I said, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for Invisalign. I really appreciate [00:57:50] everything that they’ve done for me, but the falling out really comes from I just [00:57:55] disagreed with them when they grew. But we’re talking about Invisalign. Back in 20 1516, [00:58:00] small head office in Cannon Street. It was a different company and [00:58:05] I understand they’ve just grown massively and that’s just what comes with it. We experience [00:58:10] it with different other companies in the industry as well. When they’re small, like a lab, you know, it’s your lab technician [00:58:15] making you your crowns. Then he’s got 20 others working there. It’s different. That’s okay. [00:58:20] But what really bothered me was they just did not appreciate [00:58:25] the small, local independent practices. You’ve [00:58:30] either got loads of practices. You’re either a corporate and that would determine [00:58:35] how you were treated by them From my experience, for me, doing [00:58:40] at the height of it, we did. We had a two surgery practice, just me overseeing [00:58:45] every single, and I did every clean check. You know, we reached the point where we did [00:58:50] 444 cases in a year.

Payman Langroudi: Bloody hell.

Teki: That takes us [00:58:55] to Diamond Apex, which they call the top 1% [00:59:00] in Europe. Now I know. Please somebody correct me if I’m wrong, [00:59:05] but I think I was the only true Invisalign diamond apex [00:59:10] provider.

Payman Langroudi: You mean not a group?

Teki: Yeah. Even within practices, [00:59:15] there’s other associates submitting. Whereas for me, it was. [00:59:20] I was doing every treatment. No treatment would pass if it wasn’t through me. Yeah, it would have people take [00:59:25] off attachments. Yeah, I would have people scanning, but I’d done the treatment. Yeah. No one else [00:59:30] done that.

Payman Langroudi: So what were you asking for? Something unreasonable. I have to put my supplier [00:59:35] hat on. Absolutely. Now. Yeah. So. No. So totally.

Teki: No. You’re right.

Payman Langroudi: What [00:59:40] were you asking for?

Teki: What? What it really what it really comes down to is two things. We were growing [00:59:45] as a practice as, as a, as a business. So I was now going to [00:59:50] go for more having more associates, and we were going to grow our numbers and it needed a [00:59:55] push. Okay, not for me, but for everybody else. Yeah. So [01:00:00] on the On the Doctor locator site for me personally, [01:00:05] and I sat with the manager of Invisalign and we were literally I made him do it on his phone. At [01:00:10] the time he was the manager at UK. I said to him, type in North London, if you [01:00:15] type in North London and you type in Invisalign on [01:00:20] their Invisalign site, I’m pretty sure I should come up [01:00:25] as top or one of the top because I’m a speaker for [01:00:30] them at the time. I’ve done all the cases, etc.. We were on the sixth [01:00:35] page. Where’s the recognition?

Payman Langroudi: Was it on purpose or [01:00:40] by mistake?

Teki: For the last five years, they were saying [01:00:45] that they were working on it because I’d raised it before. Another thing, [01:00:50] when the patients are going to look for a dentist to do their Invisalign treatment, they’re [01:00:55] seeing people that haven’t practised dentistry would [01:01:00] be they don’t even. They don’t even practice dentistry anymore. They the practice owners. Oh, and [01:01:05] it’s under their name. Why? It shouldn’t be like that. It should be the person that’s practising [01:01:10] that should be there. Because if it is that case, then somebody like myself, [01:01:15] an independent will be top. But because we’re not, we’re being washed down. That [01:01:20] was one thing and other few other things when it comes to education. So I was told, [01:01:25] you know, I’ve been working on them for a while when it comes to when it when it came [01:01:30] to education. We’re going to develop a course together in, you know, [01:01:35] in collaboration etc.. Great, fantastic. We got to that point all broken promises. [01:01:40] I asked for something very simple, which was to promote the course on [01:01:45] the Invisalign site, and I was told, we can’t do that even though there are [01:01:50] other providers that they were doing that for. So what’s the difference? Let me let.

Payman Langroudi: Me one [01:01:55] thing I like a caution word of caution that I want to. [01:02:00] One thing I’ve learned tell me, is when you’re working with a gigantic [01:02:05] organisation, they are the biggest organisation in dentistry right now, 30, [01:02:10] $40 billion company or whatever it is. Yeah. Depends on the share price. But [01:02:15] you definitely mustn’t treat them as a person. Yeah, right. It’s important. [01:02:20] Yeah. So I remember when I was a younger supplier, I approached Henry Shine, [01:02:25] and that year Henry Shine said no. Yeah. And [01:02:30] the following year Henry Shine said, oh, why didn’t you come last year? Yeah. Now [01:02:35] the reality was I was talking to two different departments in Henry Schein. True. [01:02:40] Yeah, but as a young fool, I’m not calling you a fool. No, as a young fool myself. [01:02:45] Yeah. I was like, Henry Schein can’t make decisions. Yeah. Last year they said this. [01:02:50] This year they said that? Yeah. Henry Schein is not a person. Right? Henry Schein is this massive [01:02:55] thing that moving it left or right is a disaster. Yeah. You mustn’t think it’s like [01:03:00] your practice of 14 people or whatever that, you know, you can move it around. It’s a mistake I made. It’s [01:03:05] a mistake I made. And so maybe. Yeah.

Teki: And I don’t doubt, um. [01:03:10]

Payman Langroudi: At the same time as a customer, you’re willing. You’re able to be pissed off, right? Yeah. [01:03:15] And you were. Is that right? And.

Teki: Absolutely. And the thing. And with these bigger companies. [01:03:20] Yeah, they’ve got the resources to be able to look after groups that are [01:03:25] corporates. They’re able to look after individual ones. They can if they want to because they’ve got the resources [01:03:30] to do that. So they can turn around and say, okay, well listen, you know, this guy’s a speaker. [01:03:35] He’s done this many cases. We can recognise him in a certain other way. So [01:03:40] I think they can treating.

Payman Langroudi: It like a person again.

Teki: I [01:03:45] think of course they’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Got the resources. Invisalign could buy the whole dental industry tomorrow. Yeah, [01:03:50] yeah. So they’ve got resources. It’s just moving that tanker sometimes.

Teki: Which [01:03:55] is, which is exactly because on an individual basis, people are apologising for all [01:04:00] of these things. And these are people that I, you know, I like, you know, that work for the company. You’re right. It’s [01:04:05] a big organisation. And it just kind of like just.

Payman Langroudi: Slow moving.

Teki: Which is my choice as [01:04:10] a, as a small independent business is to work with people, you know. So even when it comes to suppliers, for example, [01:04:15] we like working when it comes to labs, we like working with individuals. We like to know who we’re doing. So [01:04:20] it’s a choice. But the thing that that really kind of annoyed me was [01:04:25] I treated a patient who’s a high profile patient, and back [01:04:30] in the day, Invisalign used to we used to work together and they basically used to pay for their lab bill, [01:04:35] essentially. And oh.

Payman Langroudi: They should send you influencers.

Teki: No, I used to have the influencers.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:04:40] they, they.

Teki: And then and then they would say, right, if you treat them and you through this line, then we’ll pay for [01:04:45] it. So I was the middleman. Cool. Then all of a sudden, they stopped doing that, because I know that a lot [01:04:50] of other dentists wanted to have the same agreement, and they couldn’t keep everybody happy. I didn’t really care because [01:04:55] by that time I was okay. But I did her treatment through no [01:05:00] collaboration with them, and it was all done by myself. Did her composite bonding? [01:05:05] Three months later, I find out through [01:05:10] the patient that they’ve contacted her and they want to work with her without telling me. Yeah. [01:05:15] And I just thought to myself, there’s no need. You know exactly [01:05:20] who’s done her teeth, you know. Exactly. There you go again, man.

Payman Langroudi: There you go.

Teki: Again. Because I am a person treating [01:05:25] the.

Payman Langroudi: Company as a.

Teki: Person.

Payman Langroudi: It’s all you do. The person who contacted her had no idea you [01:05:30] exist. You know, because it’s a gigantic organisation.

Teki: I did I did my research [01:05:35] and I spoke and I spoke to people and they know exactly that I exist.

Payman Langroudi: Okay, so that pissed you off.

Teki: And the patient [01:05:40] and the. That was the last straw. And for me, listen, we could be like the fear. Let’s talk.

Payman Langroudi: About [01:05:45] fear.

Teki: Like you said. Fear.

Payman Langroudi: Did you have fear that when you moved from Invisalign, your patients, [01:05:50] you know, there’s massive brand recognition there? Your patients were going to worry about that? Or [01:05:55] were you calm that your patients were going to go with whatever you recommended?

Teki: Yeah, I was calm because [01:06:00] what people, a lot of people didn’t know is that I still had the patients before I did Invisalign. [01:06:05] I was doing something called six Month Smiles. I remember patients were up for it. [01:06:10] What patients really want is treatment by that [01:06:15] particular person or dentist, especially if the end goal for them is to [01:06:20] have composite bonding. The straightening is something that they just need to do to get there, [01:06:25] and that can vary based on cost. That can vary based on so many different things. So [01:06:30] how did you choose spark? I knew I didn’t want to use [01:06:35] Invisalign, so I thought, what is everyone else using? And like anything, [01:06:40] who do we go to? We go to the specialists in our industry. Who are the specialists? Orthodontists. [01:06:45] So I looked around Europe and I knew from the Invisalign speaker [01:06:50] circuit and the people that I’d spoken to who were those speakers [01:06:55] for Invisalign and the elite orthodontists in Europe and the UK. So [01:07:00] I looked into what they were using because I thought, surely, surely, if I’m feeling this, these guys are [01:07:05] feeling this as well. And that’s what. And that’s where it led me to spark. I realised that that’s what they [01:07:10] were doing now. Obviously orthodontists have already got that association with onco. Yeah. [01:07:15] So onco has been around for you know they’ve been using onco longer than Invisalign through Damon [01:07:20] brackets like myself.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So onco was the world’s biggest orthodontic [01:07:25] supplier before it was like Eminem. Yeah. So?

Teki: So they were an orthodontist. Were aware [01:07:30] of that. And I was aware of that because obviously I’d used the Damien brackets [01:07:35] before, so that’s why I tried. And [01:07:40] um, and.

Payman Langroudi: What would you characterise as the main differences between the two systems?

Teki: It’s the product. The [01:07:45] product is just better because what I see now after [01:07:50] and listen, you can only judge something.

Payman Langroudi: Once you’ve had it for a.

Teki: While. Yeah, I’ve done two and a half years [01:07:55] of it. I’ve done hundreds of cases of spark. Yeah, and I’ve done thousands of cases of Invisalign. [01:08:00] So honestly, you can ask me what [01:08:05] I see now from an outsider’s point of view is that Invisalign, they spend a hell of a lot of [01:08:10] money on research and development, and it’s gone into [01:08:15] scanners. It’s gone into small architect all sorts. [01:08:20] But the one thing which is a product, I don’t see any development. [01:08:25]

Payman Langroudi: We see the product, the plastic, the plastic. Don’t they always talk [01:08:30] about their plastic?

Teki: They talk about it and it’s marketing and it’s good brainwashing. But [01:08:35] actually when you study the plastic or you try another plastic, yeah, you will see [01:08:40] the difference. You will see that things track better. And now there’s data on it, by the way. There’s there’s, [01:08:45] you know, scientific evidence for this. So yeah it’s [01:08:50] better. The plastic is better. There’s there’s ten. I even did a webinar ten, ten Reasons Why I switched to [01:08:55] spark the attachment template. You can visualise the roots and the approver software. [01:09:00] There’s there’s a lot that.

Payman Langroudi: Shows the roots. Yeah. There’s a.

Teki: Yeah. So the approver [01:09:05] shows the roots and that can really shift your mindset. Now did you try [01:09:10] others.

Payman Langroudi: No. Are you just trusted his authenticity.

Teki: Orthodontist. Yeah. At the time, [01:09:15] the only other one that was good to use was spark. Now [01:09:20] I know that there is another one which orthodontist would use called Angel, which I haven’t tried myself, but [01:09:25] from what I know, they’re the only three. Invisalign spark Angel are the ones [01:09:30] that really work effectively. Well, I.

Payman Langroudi: Had Sonia from 30 JuCo here last [01:09:35] last week. Have you looked at that? They they what they do is they, uh, the [01:09:40] case is planned by an orthodontist. Yes. Then they tender it out to 12 [01:09:45] of the biggest factories in the world. Yeah. For, um, that make the aligners. Yeah. And [01:09:50] then, um, you can see which kind of plastic you’re interested in and they can bring it. [01:09:55]

Teki: Back for you. I think there needs to be, you know, this is the problem with and the other thing with Invisalign [01:10:00] now is that it’s a very closed system and there’s a lot of handholding [01:10:05] involved, which is why it’s very attractive to dentists, because it eliminates [01:10:10] that fear factor. When you’re using another product, something like spark, you know you [01:10:15] really need to educate yourself. You really need to be. So I run beginner’s courses for spark, [01:10:20] and actually I insisted to spark. I said, look, I’ll be a speaker for you, and I don’t mind training [01:10:25] general dentists, but you can’t get on the course unless you’ve shown a commitment [01:10:30] to orthodontics. You need to have done something. You can’t just come along [01:10:35] and do it just because it’s like anything, You know, I haven’t done a root canal for ten [01:10:40] years. Really. So you have to educate yourself. You have to really, really practice evidence [01:10:45] based dentistry. Take it. Take down those Invisalign posters from your practice. [01:10:50] Because guess what? When a patient comes in, they don’t say to you, is [01:10:55] it okay if I have some empress direct on my teeth? So what makes you [01:11:00] think that they’re going to specifically want Invisalign? Yeah, we use the name right now in the practice. We still use the name. [01:11:05] If a patient says to me, oh, I forgot my Invisalign in the car, I’m [01:11:10] not going to say to them, correct yourself. No, Invisalign is. Some people call their [01:11:15] whitening trays Invisalign. Anything that goes in their mouth that’s clear is Invisalign. So [01:11:20] it’s that big as a brand. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s a good system that works well, but if you want [01:11:25] to push the levels and you want to do better, you want to practice evidence based dentistry and [01:11:30] you’re truly, truly impartial. You have to try all the systems out there. True. [01:11:35]

Payman Langroudi: True. Let’s talk composite bonding.

Teki: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: My [01:11:40] favourite massive interest in composite bonding. We do a course. We [01:11:45] we sell the materials. But I’m kind of interested in number one. Where [01:11:50] did you first learn composite bonding? Mhm. Number two again [01:11:55] back to this. Aha.

Teki: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about composite bonding.

Teki: Composite [01:12:00] bonding. And the journey is is a personal journey. Yeah I had four fours [01:12:05] extracted so I had all four orthodontic treatment. Now from [01:12:10] what I look at my teeth I think there’s no way that I would do that now to a patient. I don’t know why they did it before. So [01:12:15] I’m on this journey to educate and make sure that my [01:12:20] patients get the best. Yeah, rather than just the easiest because of an NHS contract or [01:12:25] whatever we’re doing it for. So it’s a personal thing. Yeah. And likewise composites the same. [01:12:30] So I finished my orthodontic treatment scuffs everywhere on my teeth because the brackets [01:12:35] were removed. Yeah. Now. So I get to two [01:12:40] three years into being a dentist. I don’t want to do something to my teeth. What [01:12:45] do I do? There’s only two options. One was a bit of a crazy [01:12:50] option. An option that wasn’t really done. Very, very few people were doing [01:12:55] it and the other one was porcelain. I was going to go to America. So I found [01:13:00] places in America that I was going to go for a consultation to get porcelain. And [01:13:05] then I thought, surely what I’m doing [01:13:10] on the NHS on a band three is composite. It’s kind of the same thing. [01:13:15] Yeah. Again, me being me before a Christmas, do I [01:13:20] decide to do my own teeth with composite? I [01:13:25] think it was Z 100 at the time, Z three or something like that. Yeah, shade, whatever [01:13:30] shade we had in the drawer and I put it on. What’s the worst that’s going to happen?

Payman Langroudi: What [01:13:35] did you etch bond. The whole thing. Yeah.

Teki: Oh well it was messy. And [01:13:40] I thought, well listen I have an etch properly. I haven’t bonded properly. It’s going to fall off [01:13:45] on Monday which is perfect. Yeah. Because then I can go and have it done properly. State. And [01:13:50] I was like, but how.

Payman Langroudi: How did it look?

Teki: How? Well, luckily for me, [01:13:55] I am a very because of the orthodontics I got very, very low lip like you can’t see it. So [01:14:00] I was the perfect case in that case to do it. It doesn’t need to look that good, but it lasted, [01:14:05] so it gave me the confidence to start doing it on my friends.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:14:10] so you didn’t go to court, you just started.

Teki: No. My course was NHS practice [01:14:15] in band three. Band two. Three.

Payman Langroudi: Ideas and practice practices. You [01:14:20] know, we get these people on the course here and, yeah, they think the course is the end of the journey is [01:14:25] of course, the very beginning. And practice is how you get good at it.

Teki: And actually [01:14:30] there’s, there’s logic in trying it first because when I have better questions. [01:14:35] Yeah they know what they’re asking.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So we kind of we really push people to come to our course twice. [01:14:40] Yeah. Yeah. The second time they don’t pay completely different.

Teki: It’s such a good idea. Yeah. Because you can [01:14:45] you can really tell the difference with people that have had a go. Yeah. So I had a go. So I practised I [01:14:50] knew the materials and I went on what was my first course. Jason [01:14:55] Smithson I hope he’s still.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah he’s still working. Jason was, was doing our course [01:15:00] before Depeche.

Teki: And I went to a course. I was invited by one of my friends who [01:15:05] went, and I’ll tell you what, I was blown away.

Payman Langroudi: He’s a master, he’s a master.

Teki: But [01:15:10] I tell you what, I also felt really shit. Why? Because I thought, there’s no way [01:15:15] I’m ever going to be able to reach this and do this. Yeah, I’ll go back to Monday. [01:15:20] I mean, my practice in Basildon with three bits, three shades of composite [01:15:25] and a flat plastic, if I’m lucky. How’s this going to work?

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:15:30] true. Because of that problem here on on [01:15:35] mini Starmaker where we have Depeche Mode most of the time, but then we have someone [01:15:40] else who’s been on the course who’s made a success of it, giving a one hour talk. [01:15:45] Yeah. And it’s important because you’re right. When you see Depeche work, you [01:15:50] everyone would say blown away. I’m never going to be able to do that.

Teki: And that’s a.

Payman Langroudi: Problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, [01:15:55] yeah.

Teki: So you have to kind of. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Bridget somehow got Bridget.

Teki: And really when [01:16:00] people say to me, are you doing your training academy? Listen, I don’t have a training academy. I’m the bridge. [01:16:05] What? I say, you’ve got to go and dip it. I can’t do a course like Depeche. I [01:16:10] can’t do a course like, uh, Jason did. But what I [01:16:15] can do is I can show you how I do it, how I do it in real [01:16:20] life on patients within two hours with in a, in a, in a live practice [01:16:25] setting.

Payman Langroudi: How many do you do in two hours? How many?

Teki: Um, [01:16:30] 6 or 8.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Two hours.

Teki: I’m quick. I’ve done over 6000.

Payman Langroudi: Bloody [01:16:35] hell.

Teki: You get, you get. But I’m very kind of. I’ve simplified it over the years. [01:16:40] I never really used three instruments. I’ve got my favourite three. I know exactly how I use them. [01:16:45] Very comfortable with the material that I’m using. Don’t forget my patients. Lucky [01:16:50] and unlucky for me sometimes. I’d love to add, I was actually at a, um, an [01:16:55] orthodontic course in Oslo. And the orthodontist, he was. He was a new composite. He was blown away by [01:17:00] my composite. And I said to him, listen, he was like, what? Why don’t you put the, you know, [01:17:05] the secondary, you know, the see through bits and the bottom. I said to him, I said [01:17:10] to him, Andre, my patients, honestly, if I put a see through edge on there too, I’d have a heart attack. [01:17:15]

Payman Langroudi: So patients don’t want that. They don’t want secondary or tertiary anatomy. [01:17:20] The vast majority. Now, what.

Teki: That’s helped me with is it’s made me focus on [01:17:25] the thing that actually really matters, which is primary. Primary anatomy, the line angles [01:17:30] and just getting comfortable and good. Now, I do have a growing number [01:17:35] of patients now that do want that. Yeah, just like I’ve got a growing number [01:17:40] of patients now that want fixed. Where on earth do they come from. They want fixed braces again. Why [01:17:45] is that? They know they don’t trust themselves because they’ve had aligners [01:17:50] before. Compliance. Compliance. They’re saying, I know I’m not going to be compliant, put a brace on [01:17:55] me, I don’t care, I’m going to I’m going to suck it up for six months. And there are a growing number of patients [01:18:00] that do want that.

Payman Langroudi: So I want to get back to before I forget dental monitoring. Do you use that?

Teki: Yeah. [01:18:05] Dental monitoring I have used it. So I use dental monitoring. [01:18:10] When I switched to spark it was a serious decision. So I needed [01:18:15] data to prove that it was better. Yeah, and the only way I could [01:18:20] get that, I’ve got my own personal data. So every person I put on Dental monitoring.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:18:25] for someone like you who’s got too many patients, it’s just the godsend, isn’t it? Like [01:18:30] you don’t have to see the patient as many times it’s.

Teki: I don’t use Dental monitoring for that. [01:18:35] Dental monitor.

Payman Langroudi: You’ll see the patient the same number of times. Yeah.

Teki: Because listen, they’re selling. And I always tell them this by [01:18:40] the way, we’ve got good relationship with them. You’re selling it as reducing chair time. Yeah I [01:18:45] don’t want to reduce chair time. Our practice is a experience based practice. [01:18:50] How are they going to have an experience if they don’t come? Our patients want to come to the practice. [01:18:55] So actually some of them might potentially see it as a bit of a fobbed off.

Payman Langroudi: Funny [01:19:00] you say that. You know, my daughter went through Invisalign with dental monitoring, and that was [01:19:05] the kind of practice it was. They they hardly saw her. I thought it was magnificent. [01:19:10] My wife, who’s also a dentist, was a bit concerned about how [01:19:15] little she was.

Teki: I use it, I like it, I like the product. I think there’s and now I don’t know if you know about [01:19:20] the smart STL. So now this is another good thing with with, you know, [01:19:25] with working with spark. So now with the Dental monitoring, they’ve got the scans to a level where [01:19:30] they can create for a refinement, an STL file.

Payman Langroudi: Of the Dental monitoring [01:19:35] scan with your phone. Yeah. Wow.

Teki: That means they can have a refinement [01:19:40] where they don’t come into the practice.

Payman Langroudi: I wouldn’t have thought that was possible.

Teki: Jesus, [01:19:45] is there an Invisalign?

Payman Langroudi: Just brought out their version, right? Which is free.

Teki: Yeah, Invisalign brought [01:19:50] out their version. Um, Uh, it doesn’t have, like, the smart STL stuff.

Payman Langroudi: They’ll catch up their version [01:19:55] of. Monitoring.

Teki: Monitoring. Yeah. Listen, it’s, you know, use it. But again, it goes back to what I said [01:20:00] about Invisalign before barking up the wrong tree. Get the plastic. Come back [01:20:05] to me. I will switch tomorrow. I will switch tomorrow. I’ll come. They keep nagging [01:20:10] me. They say I’ll come back. Come back. Do you want to come back? Of course I’ll come back. But show [01:20:15] me what you’ve done. That’s different. Show me the evidence. Tell me that you’ve created a plastic [01:20:20] which is more adherent, which is going to give us better tooth movements, which is going to lead to more efficiency, predictability, [01:20:25] and is going to enhance the experience of your patients and your [01:20:30] practice, and you’re going to make more profit. I’m back. See you spark.

Payman Langroudi: All right, [01:20:35] bro.

Teki: I’m a dentist.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to practice [01:20:40] management. Yes.

Teki: How long we got?

Payman Langroudi: Not long. Not [01:20:45] long. Yeah. Tell me what you know. I can I can imagine you [01:20:50] being great with staff. Great with patients. I can imagine that. That’s right. But [01:20:55] you told me before we started that you. The idea of practice running a practice isn’t interest [01:21:00] in you anymore.

Teki: I’ve done it. Yeah, it’s been four years. I’ve [01:21:05] done it. I’ve got the t shirt. Yeah. I don’t have any regrets. Yeah, but if I could go back [01:21:10] in time and I could change things, I’d change two things. I wouldn’t do it on my own. It’s [01:21:15] lonely. Yeah. And I think you need. You know, I see a lot of successful practices. There’s a there’s [01:21:20] a brother or a sister, uh, wife. Wife. It’s true. Yeah, I haven’t got. That [01:21:25] is me. That’s one thing. The second thing is keep it small. [01:21:30] Anybody that comes to me and says to me, do you think I should open a practice, I say, yes. Two [01:21:35] surgeries, three max. So that you can control it. [01:21:40] For me, it was two surgeries, and it was a tricky one. [01:21:45] Two was too small. The shot became available.

Payman Langroudi: You famously had this waiting list [01:21:50] of a year. Yeah. A year before someone could see you for Invisalign. It was even.

Teki: Longer than that. [01:21:55]

Payman Langroudi: Bloody hell, man.

Teki: Well, think about it. It’s amazing. It’s only me. Yeah. Yeah. So. [01:22:00] And. Yeah. Like, was it.

Payman Langroudi: Not an associate at all?

Teki: So I had an associate for [01:22:05] a period. She got pregnant and left and that kind of gave me another lesson. He’s going to come back to you anyway, [01:22:10] so only take on what you know you can do anyway. So we went from two surgeries, [01:22:15] which was fine. The shop next door became available, so it was almost like it’s [01:22:20] fate. It’s meant to be that we should have a four surgery practice. Yeah, and we had the [01:22:25] space and everything doubled, except for actually, [01:22:30] um, uh, profit every everything [01:22:35] just kind of. And it just became. And it is now, you know, before I never even used to check [01:22:40] the bank. I don’t need to check how much money we’ve got because I know we’re okay. As for [01:22:45] surgeries, you got to check your bank, and it’s just the.

Payman Langroudi: It’s the short run, dude. You got to [01:22:50] bear that in mind.

Teki: It’s the the short run.

Payman Langroudi: The four years is. I [01:22:55] lost three quarters of £1 million in the first four years that we practised. So after renovating [01:23:00] and putting in a couple of chairs in the short run for six months, you [01:23:05] have to look at your bank balance and in the long run, it would have been worth it right now that you’re trying to sell [01:23:10] it. I’m sure people are more interested in it because it’s full.

Teki: Absolutely, yes. Oh, yeah. There’s [01:23:15] no regrets there. But for me right now, I enjoyed running it as a two. I [01:23:20] c I don’t enjoy running it as a four, and it just deserves somebody [01:23:25] that hasn’t got that t shirt. Somebody that’s going to come in. Somebody that was [01:23:30] like me five years ago that just wants her. And what I’ve done is I’ve [01:23:35] taken away a lot of the difficult things about it. It’s on a plate.

Payman Langroudi: And the prospective [01:23:40] buyer is buying Teeth by Teki. It won’t be.

Teki: Teeth by Teki. Obviously it’s going to go through a rebrand. [01:23:45]

Payman Langroudi: Are you saying necessarily. Listen, you’re no longer interested in even working there [01:23:50] when someone buys it?

Teki: I’ve had some really nice conversations. Listen, I’ve had conversations [01:23:55] with the biggest culprits. The problem I’ve got there is obviously staying for [01:24:00] so long and being tied in for so long, I’d be. I think it would be suited. [01:24:05] And I’d like to work for a younger guys [01:24:10] that maybe have got 1 or 2 practices and.

Payman Langroudi: You’d rather do that.

Teki: Quite [01:24:15] personal. Like what we said, I think you kind of get the type of person I am now. If I find the right fit and somebody [01:24:20] that comes in, they’ve never had a practice, but they’ve got that enthusiasm and they see me as part of the [01:24:25] team, I’m ready to be captain. I’m saying to you, I don’t want to be the manager of this [01:24:30] team. Yeah, I want to be captain. I’ll be captain. I’ll be team leader. I’ll train, I’ll help. [01:24:35] I’ll gross a lot of money for you. I’ll be there. What? You want me for a day? Two [01:24:40] days a week. But you run it. This isn’t teeth by Teki. I’ve [01:24:45] got the t shirt now. The second practice that I’ve got is Teeth by Teki.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:24:50] it’s one surgery. Giant surgery? It’s one.

Teki: Surgery. And it’s designed [01:24:55] for teaching. For teaching so that I can have dentists and therapists come and mentor. We’ve got the space. [01:25:00] We can run small courses where we have live patient demonstrations, but actually [01:25:05] we’ve got space to do it. And for what the secret is, it’s actually two [01:25:10] minutes walk from my house.

Payman Langroudi: Haha.

Teki: I told you how I feel about Sussex, [01:25:15] so it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Uh, in the future. What do you reckon? As a guesstimate? Like in [01:25:20] let’s imagine this practice gets sold and whatever, let’s say in three, 4 or 5 years time, [01:25:25] what do you reckon you’re going to be doing?

Teki: I would like to, if you say to me how old [01:25:30] I think because the thing is, with the practice being sold, it could be tomorrow. Yeah, but [01:25:35] I’ve had offers from six months ago.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, these things take.

Teki: Time, so who knows? It could be. It [01:25:40] could be a year or two.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s imagine the practice is out of the picture.

Teki: Practice out the picture. It opens [01:25:45] up to. I’ve met some incredible people. Like now, more and more in the industry. [01:25:50] I’ll give a little shout out to Sonny as well, because he was the one that pushed me to do this podcast as well. [01:25:55]

Payman Langroudi: Sonny. Sonny. Grey.

Teki: Oh, Sonny. One of.

Payman Langroudi: My favourites.

Teki: He came to be an associate [01:26:00] with me for a little bit. We trialled opening on a Saturday because we thought everyone wants to come on a Saturday, [01:26:05] so Sonny was there on a Saturday. It didn’t work. But anyway. Best thing about it is we’ve [01:26:10] stayed in touch and I’m really, you know, supporting him from from the side. But people [01:26:15] like that. Talking to him, talking to people like you, talking to people, it just [01:26:20] fills me with like ideas, creativity. So I can’t tell you I’ve got [01:26:25] the idea yet.

Payman Langroudi: Are you just know that you’re going to do something else and you’re going to do what I.

Teki: Know is [01:26:30] that in order to get creative, you need a quiet space. You know, people are in the [01:26:35] shower or in bed. That’s when they get the idea. What I’m doing, essentially, is I’m creating a quiet [01:26:40] career. We know it’s not for the money. We know it’s not for the desire [01:26:45] of having three, 4 or 5. I mean, a lucky position pay. Like I could have had more practices. [01:26:50] I’ve had a practice. So I can tell you, it’s not that the grass is greener. [01:26:55] If, you know, if I was to go back and work at Dream Smile, I would be okay. [01:27:00] You know, it’s a bit deeper than that for me now. As long as I can do what I need to do in my personal [01:27:05] life and something exciting on a professional level, [01:27:10] wherever that may be, I’m up for it.

Payman Langroudi: It goes back to that five day, four [01:27:15] day thing, you know? Like I’ve said many times, there would be no enlighten if I was working five days a week as a dentist. [01:27:20]

Teki: No, no, no. And that’s, that’s, you know, before space you’re talking about. Yeah. And before maybe [01:27:25] I think wrong with it, I would look for inspiration when you first start and open a practice, you [01:27:30] look for inspiration in those that have got five, 10 or 15 practices. Yeah, but now [01:27:35] I can tell you I respect them, but there’s no way on this planet I aspire to be like them. [01:27:40] However, somebody like yourself, what you’ve created, somebody like things like what Sonny does [01:27:45] and what other people are doing, they’re a bit different that were different, that are different. That’s [01:27:50] what gets me excited.

Payman Langroudi: Think about I just came back from Dental forum. [01:27:55] You know, you know what that is. Yeah. They match up.

Teki: This is this is in [01:28:00] Spain. It was.

Payman Langroudi: In Spain. They match up corporates with suppliers. And um, talking [01:28:05] to these corporate corporates, some of them had 4 or 5 practices. They were they [01:28:10] were there. And then all the way up to, you know, my dentist, 650 practices and [01:28:15] many in between. You’d be amazed the number of people who own 30, 40, [01:28:20] 50, 60 practices. Yeah. And talking to them, you know, and it’s [01:28:25] a nice setup because it’s not only business, you know, you do you have breakfast, lunch and dinner and [01:28:30] a party. Nice. For two days. Yeah. Nice all together. Yeah. And they go [01:28:35] into, uh, you know, private equity, you know, raising millions [01:28:40] to buy. You’ve got to understand, though, that [01:28:45] this sort of perfection paralysis or. I’m [01:28:50] not I don’t know what the word is. Maybe you’re a perfectionist. Yeah. Being a perfectionist is [01:28:55] amazing. Yeah. Maybe you can’t stand the idea of someone treating [01:29:00] someone in a practice with your name on it. That was anything below. And hence that bothers [01:29:05] you? That’s correct.

Teki: It does bother me and I’m proud of that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Great. But [01:29:10] whatever life you set up for yourself next. Yeah. It could be [01:29:15] like I had an interview with, uh, you know, what’s the Ballantyne? Duncan Ballantyne. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And [01:29:20] he was saying, you know, I have one phone call a day with my head of sales. One phone call a day with my [01:29:25] head of operations. Yeah, pretty much it. That’s what he does. And there’s a gigantic [01:29:30] business running. Yeah, yeah, a huge one. Yeah, yeah. So what I’m saying is the [01:29:35] lifestyle can be there with the gigantic business if it’s the right thing. And and [01:29:40] perfection. Perfection. You know, it’s a cliche, but perfection is [01:29:45] a is an enemy sometimes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah it.

Teki: Is. And I’ve decided [01:29:50] to, you know, with all of this, it’s it’s almost saying, look, I don’t want to play that game [01:29:55] anymore. Yeah, it’s it’s really a case of. Right. The only game that I’m playing is going [01:30:00] back to the original thing that we said, which is, you know, look after yourself [01:30:05] and then all the, all the, all the other things. One of my favourite quotes, you’d be like a little quote, it [01:30:10] says, don’t spend your time chasing butterflies. Mend [01:30:15] your garden and the butterflies will come. Yeah, that’s what I’m doing. [01:30:20] You know I’ve done what I’m doing. All I’m doing is I’m just fixing myself. Looking after [01:30:25] myself. Enjoying what I do. Taking it back to the basics. Evidence based industry, education. [01:30:30] Hanging around elite people in the industry, having nice conversations [01:30:35] with my patients. Makes you happy. Makes me happy.

Payman Langroudi: Super [01:30:40] nice to hear you’re well world, melody. And.

Teki: And one of those things is being here with you today.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [01:30:45] finish it off with our usual questions. Fantasy dinner party. Three [01:30:50] guests, dead or alive. Who would you invite?

Teki: The problem is, [01:30:55] whenever people ask me these questions, my mind instantly it [01:31:00] just goes to football. Cool.

Payman Langroudi: Awesome. Bingo! Yes, we’ve had him before. [01:31:05] He’s been a regular guest at these Dental Leaders parties. Yeah.

Teki: Uh, [01:31:10] it’s Arsene Wenger. Yeah, it’s it’s actually, uh, Dennis Bergkamp. [01:31:15] Yeah. Who was my first growing up as an Arsenal fan was there. And Thierry Henry. [01:31:20]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, my God, you are a very, very Arsenal. Um, you’re a [01:31:25] what do they call you? Gooners. You’re a gunner. Cooler. Are you there all the time? [01:31:30] Yeah.

Teki: We’ve got a season ticket. Some of the players come. You know, that’s for me, really one of the best things [01:31:35] about, you know, being a patient. Yeah. A lot of our patients, they’re like, oh, you know, what’s he like? What’s [01:31:40] he like? I’m like, yeah, lovely. Great. So that’s one of the things that one of my proudest, uh, [01:31:45] things that I’ve done is be able to have a practice where people from all walks of life [01:31:50] in different industries are coming in for the same thing. So I do love it here.

Payman Langroudi: Final [01:31:55] question advice. If you had to leave three [01:32:00] pieces of advice for your loved ones on your deathbed, what would those three [01:32:05] things be? Yeah.

Teki: The first one, which is the one that stands [01:32:10] out straight away, is. Don’t judge. [01:32:15] Only judge when you’ve got all the information. Second [01:32:20] one would be you can’t pour [01:32:25] from an empty cup. Look after yourself first.

Payman Langroudi: That people [01:32:30] pleasing thing.

Teki: The people pleasing thing. And then the final one is whatever [01:32:35] you do, just enjoy it.

Payman Langroudi: Been a massive pleasure, man. [01:32:40] Thank you. Really? I’ve learnt a lot. I really have.

Teki: Thank you. Thanks for inviting.

Payman Langroudi: Me. Thanks [01:32:45] for coming, man.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, [01:32:50] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [01:32:55] Your hosts, Payman [01:33:00] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. [01:33:05] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me [01:33:10] and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to [01:33:15] say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about [01:33:20] subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get [01:33:25] some value out of it too. Thank you so so, so much for listening. Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star [01:33:30] rating.