Ala: Keyboard warriors. Sms’s misinterpreted. Pick up the phone. Speak to someone. [00:00:05] You have a totally different conversation, right? We all know that.

Ala: And you know, if you get the same when [00:00:10] you’re reading back your clinical record, because when you’ve written it yourself, you actually [00:00:15] hear a lot of the tone. If it’s AI generated, you lose some of what your tone was. So you actually [00:00:20] by only having the AI generated record, you can lose information that you would have otherwise [00:00:25] had if you’d sat down and read and written your notes for yourself. So there is a lot of nuance, and that’s [00:00:30] why for us, it is really important that we get clinical record just how that person wants it, [00:00:35] because there’s a reason that person wants it in exactly that way. That person has used [00:00:40] it in that way for ten years. They can look back at a record from ten years ago, and they can hear how they [00:00:45] felt about that appointment through how they’ve written those words. So yes, AI is amazing [00:00:50] because it does generate records really quickly. And actually I love it for the letters the most because that for [00:00:55] me is been so aspirational and easy to do. It takes 20s um, but [00:01:00] the it is important and that will be working on that with people to get there. We do work [00:01:05] on that already to get their record exactly how they want it to be or as close [00:01:10] as we can, because that is important.

[VOICE]: This [00:01:15] is Dental Leaders, the [00:01:20] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in [00:01:25] dentistry. Your hosts [00:01:30] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: It gives [00:01:35] me great pleasure to introduce and welcome Ayla and Adam to [00:01:40] the Dental Leaders podcast from Dan Dental audio notes. You [00:01:45] guys both came across sort of my radar. [00:01:50] Oh gosh, how long was it? Was it two years ago now or was [00:01:55] it there or thereabouts two years ago? Close to certainly. Yeah. And, um, you know, [00:02:00] we sat down, we spoke about Dan and what was really, really clear to me [00:02:05] more than anything else about your journey and your product [00:02:10] is that it was and still remains a labour of love. [00:02:15] And it’s almost like you guys are on this mission [00:02:20] to change the way patient records are stored, [00:02:25] taken, managed. And all of that works. Right. And it comes with various [00:02:30] questions and upsides and downsides and all the rest of it. And we’ll talk about [00:02:35] your product later. And but guys, what I want to learn about normally I’m [00:02:40] interviewing one person. Right. So I normally say, hey how did you where did you grow up? Tell [00:02:45] us a little bit about your upbringing, your backstory. So with YouTube I want you to [00:02:50] go one at a time. Give me a brief, brief history of sort of your [00:02:55] your backstory career and then how you guys actually [00:03:00] met. And then let’s go into the rest of your rest [00:03:05] of your narrative, guys.

Ala: Well, firstly, it’s such [00:03:10] an honour to be on Dental Leaders, especially with you. Prav. Um, we have [00:03:15] listened since right near the start and then when we hosted you at Gloucestershire Dentist and we [00:03:20] came to, you know, we got to have dinner with you and we got to, um, listen to your whole day’s lecture. [00:03:25] And we understood a little bit more about what you were about. We are really, genuinely honoured to be part of this. [00:03:30] And thank you.

Adam: Oh, don’t be silly. Don’t be silly. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you guys [00:03:35] on. So go.

Prav Solanki: On, you ladies first.

Ala: Um. [00:03:40]

Ala: So my background story is my [00:03:45] grandparents, all four of them were refugees in Second World War. They were taken in cattle trucks [00:03:50] to Siberia and in the work camps. And they survived horrendous things [00:03:55] and things which many hundreds of thousands of Polish people didn’t survive. [00:04:00] They then went on to the men, became part of the British Army. [00:04:05] The girls went on to be either nurses in the army or then got taken [00:04:10] to. If they were too little, then they got taken to. They were all over the world like Kenya [00:04:15] and and Italy fighting. Anyway at the end of the war they [00:04:20] then got demobbed in the UK and the Red cross wrote to my grandma.

Adam: And. [00:04:25]

Ala: Said, um, you know, here’s your men. They’ve been part of the British Army And would [00:04:30] you like to come and be a British citizen? And we feel incredibly lucky [00:04:35] that that happened. So my mum and dad both came from a family [00:04:40] where both of the parents were refugees. Both of the parents have gone through massive things [00:04:45] in the war, and they didn’t have good English skills, and they both came from very, very humble [00:04:50] beginnings. But all the way through there is such a rod of positivity [00:04:55] and optimism and such a hard work ethic. They [00:05:00] worked in factories. My grandma was a seamstress, and then she became a kind of went [00:05:05] with the fashion buyers to London as she got higher up in her role. And my other [00:05:10] grandma sewed buttons onto shirts and sewed.

Adam: Collars.

Ala: And with her mom. So, [00:05:15] you know, like it’s. We went to see my mum’s mom’s house when I was little and the house was narrow [00:05:20] and the car was long. My mum worked incredibly hard and my dad worked incredibly [00:05:25] hard in their careers. They’ve got a real service career and [00:05:30] background. So my mum was a dentist and um, she still is a brilliant [00:05:35] coach and mentor who’s super passionate about dentistry. It oozes out of her [00:05:40] and she’s like, glows with it. Um, and she always has through 40 years. She [00:05:45] worked her absolute socks off and built a beautiful practice [00:05:50] that served the local community for 38 years, and I had the absolute [00:05:55] privilege to work with her for a number of years. And I’ve learned from her, I think I was seven [00:06:00] when I first sat down and mixed the margin up for a friend of hers, which obviously isn’t [00:06:05] legal now, but feels fine at the time somehow. Um, but yeah, I [00:06:10] come from a really long line of dentistry. I think I was six months old [00:06:15] when my mum first went to a course in America, and she won it. It was a big deal. [00:06:20]

Ala: She went to the Pankey Institute and she came back and was just absolutely [00:06:25] inspired to build something beautiful. And she did. So, um, she won lots of awards. She’s [00:06:30] now a judge on some of the awards. She’s coach and mentor. Like I said, she’s worked very closely with deadpan, [00:06:35] who you know well, so she knows the people that you, um, that, you know, through their craft [00:06:40] and, um, yeah, she’s she’s, um, been a bit of a leading light. [00:06:45] Um, a lot of women don’t. But my grandma, her mum is still alive. And despite [00:06:50] all of her challenges, she is still the most optimistic. She still makes. She’s 93. [00:06:55] She still makes dinner for us every week. She still looks after the children. Um, [00:07:00] you know, it’s it’s been incredible. So it’s a big deal to come from [00:07:05] such humble beginnings. It’s a lot of responsibility. You have to make sure you make good decisions in life [00:07:10] and all the way through. You have to keep your nose clean because everybody knows that your mum is the dentist, and you’ve got [00:07:15] to see where she knows things before you’ve even got home.

Prav Solanki: So, so [00:07:20] on, on, on that front was, I take it mum inspired you to [00:07:25] become a dentist yourself, right? Was that your. That was your journey, right? Yeah.

Adam: She’s [00:07:30] massively.

Ala: It would have been really hard to be anything else.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. Was was there ever another [00:07:35] career choice for you.

Ala: International relations I considered and journalism I considered. [00:07:40] Um, but actually like seriously did consider. But I love working [00:07:45] in a team. I love working in the local community. I love serving like that. To [00:07:50] me, if I’m helping people, I’m yeah, I love helping people. And that’s kind [00:07:55] of. Yeah. And I like doing that. Not with life and death. You know, my brother’s doctor, [00:08:00] he’s had to deal with a lot of life and death. I like just dealing with teeth like that is the manageable size of. [00:08:05]

Adam: Responsibility for.

Ala: Me. Um, but I think that’s probably where we have a similar why [00:08:10] isn’t it that service that helping people? That’s probably where Adam had a [00:08:15] similar kind of background as like different places coming from.

Prav Solanki: So where did you go to [00:08:20] dental school?

Ala: I went to.

Adam: Cardiff.

Ala: Um, and that’s where I met that one. [00:08:25]

Adam: Okay.

Prav Solanki: So that’s where it all started.

Adam: Yeah.

Prav Solanki: So [00:08:30] you met at university and were you on the same year? Was it freshers week? What? [00:08:35] How did you guys come together?

Adam: Well, yeah. So it was.

Ala: My boy toy.

Adam: Is [00:08:40] nine months.

Ala: And one day younger than me, so. Yeah, I wouldn’t have known if [00:08:45] we were at dental school.

Adam: Yeah, for actually doing a different course. Otherwise no dentist would be seen dead with probably [00:08:50] two years below at uni. Well. But no, it’s uh, it’s the Wentworth [00:08:55] Club, actually. So all the windsurfers out there? Yes. Yeah. [00:09:00] So that’s where we first met.

Ala: And I first thought, [00:09:05] Adam, I decided my fault I was going to join the Winx Club. I first saw Adam in this great big gang [00:09:10] of colourful people outside the back of the union on a Wednesday night.

Adam: When all.

Ala: The Wednesday afternoon, when all the clubs [00:09:15] happened and I was driving along in my car, I was trying to look for my group and I was like, nope, they’re not my group. They’re not my [00:09:20] group, they’re not my group. Oh, look at all those colourful people. I like that group. That’s my group. And then, [00:09:25] yeah, Adam had long blonde dreads with beads in and really shook his head.

Adam: Out [00:09:30] on the floor. And you could hear it like, yeah, it.

Ala: Was, um. Yeah. Different styles now. [00:09:35]

Adam: Didn’t start. Yeah. Different style.

Ala: Yeah. I, um, I got put [00:09:40] in a car following him and his little blonde dreadlocks flopping out of the window, and I’ve been [00:09:45] following him ever since.

Adam: Ever since.

Prav Solanki: Amazing. And [00:09:50] what was that in the. In the first year of uni. Second year. At what point were you?

Adam: Fourth year.

Prav Solanki: Fourth [00:09:55] year. Right. Okay. Yeah. And what were you what were you studying at the time? Adam?

Adam: Engineering. [00:10:00] So I did mechanical engineering as a bachelors and then I did [00:10:05] an MSC Sustainable Energy and Environment, which was still very much engineering based as [00:10:10] well. Yeah, and then an MBA. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah. [00:10:15]

Ala: I was asked to be unmarried because I’m not sure I’d have stopped it through that otherwise.

Prav Solanki: And [00:10:20] so. So, Adam, take me through your story. Where did you grow up? Tell us a little bit about your upbringing. [00:10:25]

Adam: Yeah. I grew up in a lovely little village on the edge of the New Forest, which [00:10:30] is basically between Southampton and Bournemouth. So on that side there, uh, [00:10:35] it’s a wonderful place to be. Lots of outside play, biking, football, whatever [00:10:40] it was, it was really, really joyous place to to be. Mum, [00:10:45] uh, before she had me was, um, a chemistry researcher. [00:10:50] So she had a PhD and was working out of Southampton, and then she had three [00:10:55] boys over the course of seven years, and after that she became a teacher, [00:11:00] and first was science and then um, and then was just teaching chemistry and, [00:11:05] uh, continued. Yeah. Being a teacher till, till she retired, which meant that it was [00:11:10] really great because you always had mum around when you weren’t at school. We were very close, very close [00:11:15] relationship with mum. Dad did all sorts of different jobs and throughout [00:11:20] my teenage years he ended up working a lot of nights and things. So we were very much most [00:11:25] of the time it was being here with mum and and then we’d have adventures with [00:11:30] dad and it was possible. So yeah, it was our my world.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. [00:11:35] And I guess, um, both of you had I guess had experience of, um, [00:11:40] seeing parents graft. Right. Adam, whether it was your dad who maybe wasn’t [00:11:45] there because he was working or whatever, and then Ali [00:11:50] or your, your mum inspiring you to working hard in the dental practice and whatnot, [00:11:55] that you’ve both sort of experienced that and seen that first hand.

Ala: Yeah [00:12:00] for sure, for sure. And then. Yeah. And my dad as well, you know, he did an MBA [00:12:05] when I was little and he was, you know, had a huge career helping people learn difficulties [00:12:10] in his own right. And it is it is hard graph that you’re seeing. And it is [00:12:15] initially when you’re a teenager, you’re like, oh, I definitely don’t want to do that. Like I’m not gonna hard graph that much. [00:12:20] Um, but then actually it’s just part of who you are and there’s not very much you can do about [00:12:25] it. It’s just who you are. So. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: And so did you end [00:12:30] up working in your mum’s dental practice post qualification? And do you still [00:12:35] work there?

Ala: Um, I know I work with them. Richard Colbourne now.

Adam: Richard. Yeah. [00:12:40]

Ala: Who you’ve met, he’s a he’s a superb person. Um, now I’m [00:12:45] very lucky, um, to. But I worked with my mum for a long time. She did say you can go and practice on somebody [00:12:50] else’s patients when I first qualified. So I wasn’t there to begin with. I went through a whole year of having [00:12:55] to show her my cases and go on a couple of courses that she’d recommended before I was allowed [00:13:00] to come and work, because it’s all family, friends, you know, by the time you’ve been somewhere for 30 years, you [00:13:05] really know those people. You know, we’re talking about, um, listening to your podcast, Prav with the [00:13:10] Four Seasons guy, and that was incredible. Like, yeah, he was great. [00:13:15] We really resonated with that, with that kindness, with the service. [00:13:20] And you know, that’s what my mum’s achieved over 30 years. And you know, even now [00:13:25] I meet somebody I know they’re from Australia to be like, oh, you know I used to work there at oh Mrs. Ross [00:13:30] how is she. Oh send her my love. You know, it’s like right from the heart [00:13:35] and and it’s it’s, um. Yeah, I, I’ve been very lucky to work in that sort of environment, [00:13:40] in that sort of environment.

Prav Solanki: Amazing. Um, and so at [00:13:45] what point did you guys decide that, hey, we’re going to work together. [00:13:50] Right. So, Adam, you you did your engineering bit. Where did your career [00:13:55] lead you, Ali? You went down the traditional dentist route, got your qualification [00:14:00] practised on someone else’s patients before mum let you through the door and then [00:14:05] made your way through to, you know, Richard’s practice and you’ve got, you know, you’ve got an excellent facility [00:14:10] there. Adam, what was your what was your path after shaking all the sand out your [00:14:15] dreads? Um, what happened next for interviews? [00:14:20]

Adam: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So, um, so I worked for, um, [00:14:25] a few engineering companies, uh, some very big FTSE 100. Others were [00:14:30] more private equity owned and I was always in the field of industrial process [00:14:35] control and automation and its data monitoring. So [00:14:40] and I was then in the world of product management, which meant that I would have a suite of products that the company made [00:14:45] or was going to make or was going to retire. And your role is like, you are [00:14:50] you’re the father of these, these, these projects, these products that you’re looking after, those [00:14:55] in the marketplace. And so we would be doing a lot of connecting industrial equipment to the internet, [00:15:00] getting information out. So the experts who knew about this particular thermal system would [00:15:05] be able to advise how to be more sustainable, more efficient, and basically be more [00:15:10] efficient in the industrial space. And so that was a whole mix of electronics, [00:15:15] mechanical software, data. And so I was always in that, that crossover basically between [00:15:20] the real world and sort of the virtual, uh, virtual data world. But you’re [00:15:25] just a problem solver, you know, as an engineer, you and you’re rarely solving your own problems. You [00:15:30] work for a company that does something much, much bigger than you can usually do. And, um, [00:15:35] and, uh, you know, you just get exposed to lots of different technologies and your role [00:15:40] is to generally work out, given a problem, what’s the best technology [00:15:45] to apply to that to solve, to get whatever the output is?

Prav Solanki: So interestingly, this this [00:15:50] just sort of ties in with a current conversation I’m having with my daughter at the moment. Right? So [00:15:55] she’s doing an internship at the moment at a company called Jacobs, and they’re [00:16:00] sort of environmental planning company, whatever. And she knows what I do, [00:16:05] which is solving problems as well. Right? But the beauty of what I do [00:16:10] is I have the ability to identify the problem and [00:16:15] see that problem right through to fruition, solution [00:16:20] and success at the other end. And I’m involved in the end to end journey. Right. And she said, Jacobs, [00:16:25] she goes, you know, one of the things I’ve realised, it’s my dream job, the company, what [00:16:30] it stands for and everything. But she goes, I’m doing this tiny little report, which is part [00:16:35] of a much, much bigger thing. And this tiny little report. Yes, it might have some impact, [00:16:40] but there’s lots of other steps and bigger steps, and I never actually get to see [00:16:45] what the impact of that report is. I just play with spreadsheets [00:16:50] and do these numbers. And, you know, even though it’s, um, her [00:16:55] internship at the moment, she, she, she had that moment of [00:17:00] realisation that she’s not getting a full sense of fulfilment of [00:17:05] delivery. Right. Seeing that problem through end to end. [00:17:10] And we just had a conversation in the car about, well, is that really what she [00:17:15] wants to do? And that might be what she wants to do. Just solving micro problems to be part of [00:17:20] the bigger solution. Or does she want to do something similar to to to what [00:17:25] I’m doing? Not necessarily what I’m doing, but but being part of the end to end journey [00:17:30] of that problem you’re solving. And Adam, in that respect, what [00:17:35] role were you playing in these engineering companies and in these roles? Were there some elements [00:17:40] where you just felt like you were a very, very tiny part of that, or were you involved [00:17:45] in end to end and the bigger piece at a higher level?

Adam: So my specific role [00:17:50] within the organisations was product management, which means that you are very much in the centre of [00:17:55] all the different aspects of the company. So you had to go and meet customers. And [00:18:00] when you spoke with customers who job was never to sell, you just wanted to ask questions [00:18:05] and understand the customer learn, you know what they were trying to do. So you go to some factory [00:18:10] and you speak to the maintenance guy who’s running around like he’s just got ten minutes for [00:18:15] you because he just had to fix something because the production lines or whatever, and you just wanted to listen to [00:18:20] be like, well, tell me about that. And it’s getting them talking to you and understanding that. And so that you had to [00:18:25] understand your customers and all their nuances, what they’re trying to achieve. [00:18:30] And then you come to the engineering team and some of them would be mechanical electronic software, [00:18:35] and you’d be working with them to basically convert sort of the real world [00:18:40] into a set of requirements, for example. And then you’d be working closely with them throughout development [00:18:45] because you’d be sort of the steering lead. And it was my responsibility [00:18:50] to basically prioritise what we did and when, because everyone’s got a limited resource. [00:18:55]

Adam: But then you’re also engaging up with with the business and then the sales team on the more commercial side [00:19:00] and trying to help advise them how they can take this to market so that from that perspective, [00:19:05] product management is a wonderful job to be in because you’re all sorts. And if you’re going in an engineering [00:19:10] world down a more technical route, then you’re going to end up very deep and very narrow, um, which can [00:19:15] be fascinating. But you’ve kind of got to make sure that you’re choosing a niche that has [00:19:20] a long longevity to it. Um, but you are always in that world. [00:19:25] There’s so many things that need to come together to make the world modern [00:19:30] so well run, you know, like it’s it’s unbelievable. Everyone’s specialist. [00:19:35] I can think of some example about no individual could make the basic pencil. And you think [00:19:40] of all the process that it takes to get to that with this little thing. [00:19:45] And, um, there’s an appreciation of being part of something big, but it’s, it’s it helps [00:19:50] to know that you are able to make an impact. It also puts a lot of pressure on you and a lot of responsibility. [00:19:55] Yeah, I think we’ve enjoyed.

Ala: About about, um, running down [00:20:00] as you have enjoyed being able to see it through. Right back 15 years [00:20:05] ago, Adam and I had a conversation about him wanting to see a product all the way through and to see [00:20:10] it from beginning to end. And yeah, that’s that’s been what you’ve achieved [00:20:15] this time. Yeah. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: So. So when, when was, um, your first [00:20:20] baby born then when did when what.

Ala: 2017. [00:20:25] We had a boy and then 29. [00:20:30] 2020 beginning of 2020, we had a little girl and then, [00:20:35] uh, end of 2019, we had Dental alternate. So it was our third [00:20:40] baby became a third baby. For the second baby.

Adam: So [00:20:45] the embarking on the project itself was then. But we looked at this as a problem [00:20:50] like almost a decade before that.

Ala: Right.

Adam: Well, yeah. Well, [00:20:55] it’s there’s always been.

Ala: This thing I am. The problem, basically, is what’s happened the whole time [00:21:00] I didn’t bring with me as a dentist. I am the problem. I stay late writing my notes, and eventually I was just like, [00:21:05] surely we can fix this for you? Yeah.

Adam: I [00:21:10] mean, at the beginning it was just here that you can surely audio record this, but this was [00:21:15] before cloud was a thing and and it was like, well, here’s some software, here’s a microphone. [00:21:20] And, and then you sort of start to understand the challenges of handling all these audio [00:21:25] files and how are they actually kept completely private, yet you know [00:21:30] who they are and then secure. And here you are doing this on your laptop. Okay. So you start to uncover some of the [00:21:35] the challenges there. And again, that was even before GDPR. And then we looked at again [00:21:40] a little bit later, um, as sort of just a concept, just how can we help other. [00:21:45] And then when this opportunity came up at the end of 19, it’s like, okay, we can solve this properly. There are lots [00:21:50] of sort of regulatory and, and sort of important baseline [00:21:55] challenges that need to be fixed just to allow people to even make an audio recording. And then everything [00:22:00] from there is I mean, that’s that’s the gateway to all of the modern technology. Now, is that [00:22:05] that audio, you know.

Ala: We worked with some really great minds when we were at that stage, like thinking, okay, [00:22:10] let’s do this. So jumped in and was one of the guys who were the head educators for, um, uh, [00:22:15] Dental Protection Society. And he said that, um, you know, I remember being at one of his things [00:22:20] about ten years ago, being like, can’t you just audio record this? And he’s like, yeah, but you’ve got to make [00:22:25] sure it’s, you know, available to the right person at the right time. You’ve got to make sure that it is stored properly. And, you [00:22:30] know, these were the regulations that GDC regulations, the CG dent regulations or FTP as they were at the time, [00:22:35] you know, and you’ve got to make sure that you do all of that properly and it’s got to be in the patient’s [00:22:40] interest. That was their that was their major thing. Like, this has got to be for the patient in [00:22:45] the patient’s interest. Yes, it can be helpful to you, but it needs to have [00:22:50] that to be real and to be proper and to be ethical. So yeah basically [00:22:55] we just properly looked at okay, what do you need to jump through. Is this [00:23:00] possible to jump through. What will it take. And shall we do it. And that was yeah that was [00:23:05] it.

Prav Solanki: So the first problem was I was spending too much time at work. Sounds [00:23:10] like me. Yeah. Adam was like, when is my wife coming home? [00:23:15] Yeah. When is my wife coming home? Your dinner’s cold. Yeah. [00:23:20] Um, I’m gonna fix this problem using engineering, and [00:23:25] we’re gonna. We’re gonna create a piece of software that’s going to audio record [00:23:30] your notes, so you don’t have to stay behind. Take your notes, [00:23:35] and you guys can have some quality time. Um.

Adam: Yeah.

Ala: Do you know, it [00:23:40] came at the same time as mastery was happening for me, though, you know, and you’ve been out of dental school for a little while [00:23:45] and you start to be like, okay, cool, I’ve got the basics now. I want to get it really good. So you [00:23:50] go through the thing of your master, your check-up, you master your composites, you master [00:23:55] your crown preps you. You start adding a couple of strings to your bow, you start adding [00:24:00] sedation and you start, you know, doing all those things. And your record keeping was like a thorn in my [00:24:05] side. It’s like, I want to do this really well. And, you know, I was so lucky. I worked with amazing nurses, [00:24:10] some really good at it, so it was fine most of the time. And then one day I’d have somebody [00:24:15] else and it, you know, it would all fall apart and you’d be like, oh, I had it really good and it’s just falling apart. [00:24:20] So yeah, I think this was we wanted to I was going through the course courses [00:24:25] at the same time, and we thought about systems and systems being implemented well, so that then there, [00:24:30] you know, that happens to every patient every time. And that was one of the major [00:24:35] things that we wanted to achieve was the system for that.

Prav Solanki: So how did this idea [00:24:40] come? Like, you must have sat sat over the dinner one day and said, [00:24:45] do you know what this thing that we’ve been talking about for ten years, I’m going to sit on my computer [00:24:50] and start writing some code and make this tangible. Right? There must have been that [00:24:55] pivotal moment, right? Do you remember that?

Ala: Yeah.

Adam: There was [00:25:00] a there was a holiday we had before kids. So it was sort of a disco, um, just travelling [00:25:05] around in the van and yeah, all of those, all of the journeys, we were just like, let’s actually [00:25:10] just go through this and you start sketching out and and really starting to [00:25:15] I mean, that’s, you know, that’s kind of what I did in my professional life anyway, just in a different setting. So [00:25:20] like this really just flush out all the requirements that this will need to do and pencil sketches [00:25:25] what it could look like. But that’s really just trying to work out all the functionality that you’re going to need. Um, [00:25:30] and uh, yeah, that was that was an early start.

Ala: And have you must note from like working with [00:25:35] people that you love working with when you really respect and admire that person and you get to work [00:25:40] with them and that is fun. It is like we’re like, oh, let’s listen to you. Let’s listen to a [00:25:45] viable product. Let’s listen to like, let’s listen to, yeah, build something together. Um, [00:25:50] and that’s so instinctive to, you know, when you have people who, who enjoy using their brains, [00:25:55] but working together is actually really joyful, like, let’s do this, let’s sit on the beach and instead of talking [00:26:00] about, like, whatever, whatever, let’s talk about, okay, how would we actually make it work like that? How would it how it’s really [00:26:05] so.

Prav Solanki: It’s really cool, right? It’s really good. So from the outside looking [00:26:10] in, right, as I mentioned right at the beginning, yeah. It seemed to me that when I [00:26:15] met you both, right, you were so goddamn giddy about Dental audio [00:26:20] notes, it was just insane, right? Like the passion is just there. [00:26:25] Um, and and it’s so clear to me that you’re both in [00:26:30] as well as being in love with each other. In love with Dan, right. This Dental [00:26:35] audio notes. Um, and and and, you know, I know Adam’s the [00:26:40] guy sat there writing the software and coding it and having these late nights [00:26:45] and burning the candle and whatnot. But I’m sure when you look at your product at the end of it and think, yeah, I created [00:26:50] that, do you know what I mean? We did this together. Um, and then having the impact [00:26:55] on hundreds of clinicians right at the same time. And [00:27:00] God knows how many patients. Right. Must be quite, you [00:27:05] know, must be quite a feeling to.

Ala: We had a bit of a magical moment [00:27:10] about that the other day when you were sitting with people who are wise people, [00:27:15] um, in big indemnity organisations and when their top [00:27:20] leadership team turned around and said, we really like what you’ve made, it’s [00:27:25] the best we’ve seen. Like that moment was one of those moments where you’re like, that [00:27:30] is actually joyful. And as an has a little smile that steals across his face [00:27:35] and he doesn’t want it to, and he’s just feeling a little bit proud, like, yes, we did that, I made [00:27:40] that. And you know, these people who are wise in their professions and [00:27:45] who we respect. And but then to see it is. Yeah, that’s really truthful. [00:27:50]

Adam: Yeah, yeah. And this is um, showing now what we do because the audio is the start. [00:27:55] We transcribe that and then once you’ve got an accurate transcription, then [00:28:00] that’s where the magic opens up. Now with current technologies into the AI and generative [00:28:05] world, where we can now generate the whole written record, patient letters and summaries, [00:28:10] all from that transcription. But again, all of that is backed up by [00:28:15] the real truth, the ground truth, the audio. And it’s all about those foundations. [00:28:20] And having put that hard work in at that base level to now, at this point when we’re [00:28:25] able to really like, say, patient saved clinicians loads of time and make the whole [00:28:30] workflow so much more effortless, That’s built on top of this is the [00:28:35] best record you can have from the audio side, from your defensive side. [00:28:40] It’s the actual real, real, real truth of what’s there. Do you know what.

Ala: The records are [00:28:45] there? You want them concise and precise. You want them achievable. [00:28:50] You don’t want to have reams and reams of text, because actually you’re using those every day to look back and see what happened. [00:28:55] Quickly, quickly, quickly. Quickly. But actually, the whole point of the written record is to [00:29:00] give you credit for the hard work you’ve done, is to try to get [00:29:05] people, get you to understand what happened, where the patient is in the journey. But then if anything happens, [00:29:10] you want to understand what happened. So it’s a little bit like having [00:29:15] somebody who remembers can put you back in that moment of ten years ago, when you spoke to [00:29:20] Mrs. Jones on a cold and wet Tuesday afternoon about her implants. You know, you want to understand [00:29:25] if Mrs. Jones is saying you never told me about implants, you want to listen back and understand what actually happened [00:29:30] so that you can help her. And either way, it doesn’t matter if you said it or if you didn’t say it, you’re [00:29:35] still going to come to her with that same. Mrs. Jones. I’m really sorry that you feel that way. [00:29:40] If you said it, you can be like, here’s a snippet of our conversation from eight years ago when we did [00:29:45] speak about implants. I’m sorry you didn’t remember that. And you know, in hindsight, maybe we can revisit it more, but [00:29:50] how can I help you feel more comfortable about where you are in this, of this particular point in time, [00:29:55] or if you feel like you didn’t say it well enough or, you know, the the always [00:30:00] the danger is the current requirements get overlaid onto what were the requirements [00:30:05] eight years ago? Who remembers what was the right requirements eight years ago? Things change.

Ala: Right? [00:30:10] Things change. Yeah. So. But if you didn’t say it, you could say like, Mrs. Jones, I’m so sorry [00:30:15] that you feel that way. You know, looking back and thinking back on the visits, in hindsight, I wish I [00:30:20] had explained it differently. How can I help you to feel more comfortable about the situation you’re in now? [00:30:25] And you know when you’re coming back and you hear it, you [00:30:30] hear yourself differently. You hear the patient and you can understand [00:30:35] it’s a clinical situation on the table in front of you, and you’re not coming at it with all your emotions [00:30:40] of how you felt in that moment, but you are coming at it with a bit of hindsight, with a [00:30:45] bit of overview, with a little bit of wisdom behind you. And you can leverage the wisdom of wise people to help [00:30:50] you to make better decisions on how to move forward.

Ala: So actually, if you do have a complaint, it [00:30:55] doesn’t matter how many notes you generate like you can the AI generated notes. I mean, it is exciting [00:31:00] watching your notes appear in front of your very eyes. Like, that is cool. I’m not going to undersell that because [00:31:05] that is it is amazing. But the reality is that [00:31:10] if anything happens, you need to understand where that person is coming from and to [00:31:15] be able to ask, okay, this is what happened, what do I do? And the indemnity companies [00:31:20] love us because they can help, you know. They can hear that. What happened? They can say, [00:31:25] look, this is probably where the patient’s feeling like this. They can use patient’s own language in their response [00:31:30] to them. They can make it, you know, a much better, clearer local [00:31:35] resolution. And that is worth its weight in gold. And you don’t listen back [00:31:40] to the audio recording day to day. Of course you don’t. But when you need it, when you can search [00:31:45] back. So it’s searchable audio that we provide. So you can search back the word implants and [00:31:50] it searches through it. And it will highlight everywhere that you spoke about implants. So you know, you’re never going to have to listen [00:31:55] back to all of that audio. But when you need it, it is there.

Prav Solanki: I’m just going to go full [00:32:00] circle, guys, because we’re talking about something that we know about. And there are people listening to this [00:32:05] who maybe haven’t quite grasped what dental audio notes is. Right. Right? So what [00:32:10] I’d like you to do is just give me a summary of [00:32:15] what is the patient journey with Dental audience. What do you do? Do you wear a microphone? [00:32:20] What do you say to the patient? Yeah, I want you to talk me through [00:32:25] what the heck this thing is like where, you know, do you press record on [00:32:30] a screen? Like, just walk me through a patient journey? [00:32:35] I imagine a patient has just walked into your practice for their first consultation [00:32:40] about, I don’t know, orthodontic treatment and talk [00:32:45] me through your patient journey and your consultation having done by [00:32:50] your side.

[TRANSITION]: Okay, great.

Ala: So I go [00:32:55] and pick up my patient from the waiting room. I introduced myself, I welcomed the practice, like [00:33:00] bring them in and I let them get settled. And they haven’t heard any of that. Whilst I’ve been doing that, they’ve just [00:33:05] been thinking about walking through. So when they’re sitting down in their surgery, my [00:33:10] nurse presses record. I then sit down in the chair next to them, eye to eye level [00:33:15] and presses.

[TRANSITION]: Record.

Ala: Where.

[TRANSITION]: On.

Prav Solanki: What presses record where on.

[TRANSITION]: What. [00:33:20]

Ala: Okay, so, um, there is a button on Dental on. [00:33:25]

Adam: Uh, Dental audio node sits and runs on the local computer in [00:33:30] the surgery. So, uh, open up Dan and press the record. We have some [00:33:35] integrations as well. So any of the web based practice management systems, we can surface a little record [00:33:40] button in there. And that’ll just open down and start recording straight from your practice management system.

Ala: So [00:33:45] it’s super easy. There is literally a record like a, like a big microphone [00:33:50] button and you press it.

Prav Solanki: Okay, question, question. [00:33:55] Is this a cloud based based platform? I log into a website and I hit record, or is it [00:34:00] a piece of software that’s installed on the computer and [00:34:05] I press record?

Adam: Yeah. So, um, using Dan is a piece of [00:34:10] software installed on the local computer. The data is all stored in the cloud. [00:34:15] So think of it as a little bit like Spotify in that respect. There’s an application running [00:34:20] but the music is up in the cloud. So this is the same with the records. And what that means is that every [00:34:25] record that’s generated basically is automatically tagged with what surgery [00:34:30] and, and obviously practice it was in um, but also then all the the [00:34:35] application on the computer is basically the only place that any of the information can ever be [00:34:40] decrypted. If it was in a web browser, then essentially anyone can access it from anywhere in the world. [00:34:45] But this is where all the sort of security and encryption side goes to make sure the right [00:34:50] people have access to that is through the application. But you don’t need to deal with storage and [00:34:55] records because we handle that encrypted in the cloud.

Prav Solanki: So just from [00:35:00] a software perspective, and I get very geeky about this, guys, because I’m a I’m a SaaS [00:35:05] product owner as well. And so it’s really interesting conversation. Allah, [00:35:10] we’re going to come back to your consultation in a minute. Right. But I’m just going to get a little bit geeky [00:35:15] with it. Adam. Um, and so you’ve got this piece of software where [00:35:20] essentially all the security is there on that computer. Um, and then [00:35:25] you’ve got the cloud, which is essentially data storage, and then you’ve got a separate set of security in [00:35:30] and around that, your servers where that is firewalls, etc., etc.. [00:35:35] You mentioned possibly having something on a web browser and how how [00:35:40] different is that? Like if you were recording on a, let’s say, a web browser, [00:35:45] how does that impact security? And you know what just just popped into my [00:35:50] mind, right. Voice notes on an iPhone. Right? So I press the red button, voice [00:35:55] notes on my iPhone. It’s recording on my phone. And then it [00:36:00] fires it up to iCloud. Right. Which I guess is the equivalent. I’m sure you don’t use an iCloud, but but the equivalent [00:36:05] of the storage. Is that a similar analogy in terms of what’s going on on the computer? You you’ve [00:36:10] got an app or something on the computer that is carrying [00:36:15] out the recording and transcription function, the AI stuff. What’s [00:36:20] going on in the app?

Adam: Yes. So the the app is basically just dealing with collection [00:36:25] of the audio and then locally encrypting that and then sending the encrypted files [00:36:30] up to our servers. And then on playback, it’s doing the opposite. So it [00:36:35] receives the the encrypted files and then locally decrypts them [00:36:40] ready for playback. And so from that side, what that means is that obviously the communication [00:36:45] itself is is within Https. But it means that the the audio file that we hold [00:36:50] is encrypted. So it’s even if someone’s when it comes to security [00:36:55] it’s so many layers and a yeah, like [00:37:00] an onion basically. And um, you basically said that every single layer do the best that [00:37:05] you can so that by design, even if one layer was compromised or this layer was [00:37:10] compromised, everything is always in a narrow scope that the risk of, [00:37:15] of um, I’ve gone I’ve lost my [00:37:20] train of thought and.

[TRANSITION]: As well, you see?

Prav Solanki: Yeah. [00:37:25] No, no, it’s fine, it’s fine. And I look, um, I think the thing is here that [00:37:30] we’re talking about the security, right? And, um, the security benefits [00:37:35] of having an app on a computer versus recording [00:37:40] directly into a web browser. Um, and what what are the what are [00:37:45] the differences in the challenges and the security there?

Ala: You chose to do [00:37:50] that locally because that was the most security by design [00:37:55] way, that we could do that. And we feel very proud of the security level that [00:38:00] we’ve achieved. And, um, like speaking a little bit about beforehand, we [00:38:05] pay a lot of money to drop a penetration test is not only just to prove, [00:38:10] but also our friends know who the best of the best approved ones are, and those are [00:38:15] the people that we use to regularly, test and regularly make sure that it is actually secure. So, [00:38:20] you know, having it locally, um, locally encrypted is just one bit of [00:38:25] a huge design element, which means that we are very [00:38:30] confident that we have good security and we pay a lot of money to make [00:38:35] sure that stays good security long term.

Adam: Yeah, and there’s obviously security and privacy, [00:38:40] but it’s actually also quite integral to just making sure that the practice and the dentist are compliant with [00:38:45] the GDC and and if and content regulations, which [00:38:50] is like security and privacy is all obviously part of that. But it’s actually now this [00:38:55] is the patient record. Patient records needs to be kept in this way and appropriate. And these [00:39:00] people need to access it. And only those people need to access it. And so, um. [00:39:05]

Ala: The right person at the right time so that that patient has the benefit of all of their data [00:39:10] when they need it. So you can’t be, you know, looking at if you’re going to store it, [00:39:15] you have to store it properly as part of the patient record, we feel. But yeah, you know, [00:39:20] the indemnity organisations tend to have reverse on that. The systems the the practice [00:39:25] management systems tend to agree with us on that. So there is a bit of grey of course. But I [00:39:30] think for people who are in the majority of dentists, they want to know they’re doing the right thing. [00:39:35] They want to know that in the moment they press record, they are compliant and that is what we achieve [00:39:40] for them.

Prav Solanki: So back to your consultation earlier. You’re in the clinic, [00:39:45] You press record? Yeah. Now, tell me, exactly [00:39:50] what do you say to that patient at that point to get consent to record [00:39:55] the consultation. What are the words that you use?

Ala: Perfect. So I say [00:40:00] Prav. Welcome to the practice. My name is Ella. I’ll be your dentist [00:40:05] today. This is Carla. She’ll be your dental nurse. It’s really nice to meet you. What [00:40:10] we normally do at this point is have a really good conversation when we’re sharing lots of information [00:40:15] back and forth. Is it okay if I take an audio recording at the same time? It means that I [00:40:20] know my records are great. We can leverage the power of AI to write you a summary at the end if [00:40:25] you would like one, and it means I can concentrate my time on you. Is that [00:40:30] all right? And never in the time we’ve we’ve been doing it. Has anybody said no. Now [00:40:35] we we weren’t near GHQ. So we have people who are at the top level of security who [00:40:40] ask me questions. I have had three questions in about the last six years and that is it. [00:40:45] And if anybody ever felt they didn’t want to do it just to record, it’s so easy. If ever you get into a conversation, [00:40:50] into a part of a conversation that you think they may not want this recorded, just press stop. [00:40:55]

Ala: And then when it starts up again, you can just press go again. You know we’re set so that [00:41:00] however many times you press stop and go, that is part of that conversation. So you can [00:41:05] get the credit for the bits that you want credit for. You don’t have to have the whole thing recorded. If you don’t [00:41:10] want your personal bits recorded, just press stop. At that point, you know, it’s this is here to [00:41:15] give you credit for that. So, um, basically at that point when patient says yes, you tick the big [00:41:20] consent button to confirm that you’ve got consent and you’ve now got it in the transcript, and you’ve now got it [00:41:25] in the audio that that person can send it. You’ve got their voice saying it. Sometimes they’ll nod and I’ll say, can you just [00:41:30] say it out loud? And there is a little but you know, but um, but that’s yeah, that’s fine. And [00:41:35] because the first time you do it, sure you’re going to feel on show and you’ll be. But what [00:41:40] will happen is you’ll pull your.

[TRANSITION]: Socks.

Ala: Up. What will happen is you’ll look at that patient better. [00:41:45] You’ll communicate with that patient better. You will help them to understand better. [00:41:50] Because actually you’re aware that actually this communication is important. And I want to get [00:41:55] it right, and it actually makes you better. And we’re talking about wisdom before. And Kevin [00:42:00] Lewis sent us a little thing about it that was actually hit the nail on the [00:42:05] head. And it was um, it’s rung true the whole way through. And he said [00:42:10] it has the potential to do wonders for the quality of interpersonal communication between patient and clinician, [00:42:15] and that is arguably a more important dividend than the recall involves. And again, [00:42:20] you know, all the stuff we’ve talked about making connections with people, it allows you to do [00:42:25] that because it not only allows you to do that because you’re not having to think about your records, it makes [00:42:30] you do it because you’re more aware of how you’re communicating. And that is. Yeah, that’s, that’s [00:42:35] that’s the really good stuff. That’s when.

[TRANSITION]: You.

Prav Solanki: When you, when [00:42:40] you know, Dan is listening then, then then you’re on your toes. Right. You’re on best behaviour so [00:42:45] to speak. And um, um, you do things in a different way.

Ala: You are a [00:42:50] little bit, but yeah. Sorry. Um.

Prav Solanki: One of the things that, um, you know, [00:42:55] there’s lots of different tools out there that can record things. And one thing that, [00:43:00] um, sort of has always come to mind is that if you’ve got something recording [00:43:05] and it’s creating AI and it’s doing things, maybe you speak [00:43:10] in such a way that’s just a little bit more thorough than you would have done if you weren’t [00:43:15] dictating your notes, so to speak, so that, you know, you’ve got all boxes ticked and that that [00:43:20] then becomes muscle memory to you. Is that right?

Ala: Yeah, that’s exactly what it’s like. That’s exactly [00:43:25] what it’s like. You’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head and it becomes joyful because it’s like it’s like [00:43:30] you can gamify it a little bit for yourself and be like, yeah, did that yet? Took to that, yet took to that. But you [00:43:35] realise, you know, when you look at the length of the transcript, you remember, you realise how much you actually [00:43:40] interact with that person and how little your notes can actually give you credit [00:43:45] for that because, you know you can’t write all of that down. You know, we thought about copying [00:43:50] the whole transcription process. It’s too much, you know, it’s not usable. And that’s, I think, where [00:43:55] we’ve always come back to, yes, you can overlay AI and that is magical. [00:44:00] And yes, we do that. And yes, you know, I use it all the time. I send letters [00:44:05] out to my patients now because it takes me 10s to do, you know, and that is [00:44:10] and that is so aspirational for me. I’ve always wanted to be one of those dentists that sends letters out to each of their patients, [00:44:15] and I can do it in an email before we’ve even got home, you know.

Ala: So how well looked after? Are they feeling [00:44:20] like it is magical? And my nurse, it doesn’t matter which nurse I have, I have consistently great [00:44:25] records all the time. Yeah. Anyway, um, you’re saying about some makes [00:44:30] you feel a bit more on edge, I think, when you’re first using it, [00:44:35] it makes you pull your socks up. When you’ve been using it for a while, it makes you proud [00:44:40] of what you achieve. But how I feel now is that it’s my safety net. He’s my guy [00:44:45] in the corner who’s got my back. It doesn’t matter if the nurse has popped out to [00:44:50] get the next patient set up, or put some extras through, like I am getting credit for every sentence [00:44:55] that I’m saying. So I put more into my patient. And, you know, those emergency visits where it’s just like there’s [00:45:00] a lot going on and you’re trying to get consent and you’ve got all these different [00:45:05] things to talk about. It means that even when I’m taking the x ray, I [00:45:10] can be still talking. I can still be getting credit for that. It’s still giving me the notes. And that is. Yeah, I enjoy that. [00:45:15] Yeah.

Prav Solanki: So just out of curiosity there, let me [00:45:20] play devil’s advocate and I’m that dentist and I think, do I hell want to record [00:45:25] this? What happens if I say something that I don’t want to [00:45:30] be documented? Do you understand where I’m coming from? Like, yeah, what.

[TRANSITION]: Happens if I slip up and I say.

Prav Solanki: Oh [00:45:35] shit, I’ve just put my just put my foot in it. Right. What’s [00:45:40] your you must come across that, right.

[TRANSITION]: Well, what.

Ala: What we’ve come across before [00:45:45] is I’ve left it on. We now have a view on top, which means it’s [00:45:50] always on top. So you can always see if it’s recording. So that happens a lot less. But we have put a cut tool in so [00:45:55] that you can if you know the next patient’s in and you don’t want to be collecting their data yet [00:46:00] work and stuff, you can cut it. But equally you only record the bits you want to record. So [00:46:05] you want to record the bits that you’re doing. Good communication. So maybe at the beginning of the visit when you [00:46:10] say Mrs. Jones, you know you’re in here today for a really nice, easy filling. I know you [00:46:15] feel anxious about these things sometimes, but please be reassured. You know, this is a genuinely quite an easy one. We’re not even going to have to [00:46:20] use local anaesthetic and just paint it on top, you know, all that kind of thing. So you can just do that bit, or you can say it’s going to be [00:46:25] a bit deep or that kind of stuff, so you do it at the beginning. You can either keep it running, lots of people keep [00:46:30] it running and have it like a black box in the background. Or you can stop at that point and then just [00:46:35] press start again at the end. When you’re doing poster constructions, it is only a tool. It doesn’t have to be on all the time. [00:46:40] And that’s because we do the start and stop. And then it’s as it’s when you’re doing the eye records, [00:46:45] everything that you is in there is taken into the eye. So yeah, it’s a [00:46:50] neat solution that you can use at your whim. So it’s not going to record [00:46:55] stuff that you don’t want it.

Prav Solanki: Okay. Um, Fine. Talk [00:47:00] to me about the AI stuff. So you hit record it, transcribes it, and then [00:47:05] it produces. Does it produce your clinical notes? Does it? You [00:47:10] said it produces a patient letter. How good is that? Is it peppered with errors? [00:47:15] Do you need to adjust it when you adjust it. Are you training the AI [00:47:20] model. And the next question I’m going to ask you, which [00:47:25] just does spring to mind, is do you just plug it into ChatGPT and [00:47:30] take what it spits out through the API? Um, how does it work? [00:47:35]

Adam: Got great questions.

[TRANSITION]: Great question.

Adam: Um, so yeah, so [00:47:40] fundamentally an excellent transcription is what’s the essential bit of information to feed [00:47:45] into any AI and what we took quite a long considered approach [00:47:50] to how we were going to approach making AI available to [00:47:55] dentists through Dan. And because it’s such a rapidly changing field. I mean, [00:48:00] even let’s say, you know, the GP team is really sort of the public announcement to [00:48:05] the world that this technology is here and people can interact with it. And that was 18 months ago. [00:48:10] And in that time, we’re now at the point that we can start [00:48:15] to use AI in the real world for real use cases. And this use case is [00:48:20] absolutely saving heaps of time for dentists, making sure that their written record is [00:48:25] is excellent, and it can all be done in a click of a button. So fundamentally we’re we’re able to [00:48:30] create the clinical record. We also to create letters. But we also are [00:48:35] in a position that you can use the AI yourself by in [00:48:40] um, with custom instructions to basically shape whatever you want to do as a dentist, because we [00:48:45] felt that we couldn’t come to this problem or this field opinionated [00:48:50] in how you as a dentist need to input or output your information [00:48:55] like every dentist has their own approach, uh, their own templates or whatever.

Ala: So [00:49:00] carefully consider templates they’ve developed over the years like they it is important exactly [00:49:05] how your record comes out. And, um, the bit that Adam was talking about. So the first [00:49:10] time you use it, you literally you have a mic on and you ask the patient for consent, you just [00:49:15] record the record and then at the end you press. So for example, if it’s an exam, you press [00:49:20] examination and you press run and you see your examination appear in front of your very eyes, and that is magical. And [00:49:25] I think that is something that every dentist should experience for themselves once in their life, because [00:49:30] it’s leveraging all of the wow of AI for something that you are really passionate [00:49:35] about and something that you use every single day. And, and you know, that is a magical, joyous [00:49:40] moment. And I, I genuinely, you know, I want it for the dentists who don’t enjoy typing. [00:49:45] I want it for the dentist that can be doing their records the same all the way through their lives. I want it for the brand new dentists that you know. [00:49:50] I just have so much on their plates. They don’t need anything new. I want everybody to be able to see that happening once. [00:49:55] Um.

Prav Solanki: I guess look, I’ve got some fundamental questions here, and [00:50:00] you’re more than welcome to tell me to go take a run and jump when I ask me to ask you these questions, because there may [00:50:05] be trade secrets, right? But one of them is how do you get accurate transcription? [00:50:10] Are you utilising some kind of Amazon based sort [00:50:15] of tools that does this really well? And then secondly, are you just throwing this [00:50:20] into ChatGPT and training ChatGPT and getting that out? So let’s focus [00:50:25] on those two questions. First of all, how transcription. And then next is [00:50:30] it ChatGPT.

[TRANSITION]: It’s not going.

Ala: To just do that straight away.

[TRANSITION]: Um, [00:50:35] yeah.

Adam: So so transcription speech to text was always in the computer science [00:50:40] world, always going to be an AI problem. And that was really solved by OpenAI with [00:50:45] one of their models, which is called whisper. And that’s a model that they developed so [00:50:50] that they could then go and scrape YouTube to make all the information to go and feed into their, their [00:50:55] models. And that model is excellent. So that model is open source, as in [00:51:00] anyone has free and open access to using that model. And then again from us, from the privacy perspective, [00:51:05] we’ve run that model in our own infrastructure in AWS.

[TRANSITION]: So [00:51:10] Amazon Web.

Adam: Service, Amazon Web Services. Yeah. So we’re not sending [00:51:15] that then even from our servers over the internet to the US, [00:51:20] as obviously at that point it would be a decrypted audio file, but just sent to the [00:51:25] US for them to transcribe and come back again. So we use OpenAI’s [00:51:30] transcription model. We deploy that within our own infrastructure. And then in terms of the [00:51:35] quality output of there. So whenever you notice a mistake in the transcription and you listen [00:51:40] to the audio, you’re like fair play. Like, you know, you are just a computer. You’re [00:51:45] not really familiar with the goal to talking to. And so and he and.

[TRANSITION]: He was a mancunian.

Prav Solanki: There’s [00:51:50] no way there’s no way you’re going to understand the Mancunian. Right. So, um.

[TRANSITION]: You know, [00:51:55] it’s much more about.

Ala: It’s much more about quality of audio effort. Like, [00:52:00] it’s not that it handles accents really well, like, even like.

[TRANSITION]: I’m [00:52:05] telling you. Right? So yeah.

Prav Solanki: I use a piece of software called loom. [00:52:10] Yeah. Um, to record the screen and whatnot. And it does this transcription piece. Right. [00:52:15] God knows whether she’s been whisper or not. But let me tell you something. It thinks I’m Welsh. Yeah. [00:52:20] Um, it takes my Mancunian. Yeah. And definitely doesn’t type out English, so it gets [00:52:25] me wrong.

Adam: Um, yeah.

Prav Solanki: And and me and Jaz Gulati are always joking [00:52:30] about the fact that once loom figures me out, then we know it’s cracked its transcription [00:52:35] problem. Right? Right?

[TRANSITION]: But yeah, let’s.

Ala: See how you do.

[TRANSITION]: With that. That’ll be our next. Yes. Yeah. [00:52:40]

Adam: At a deep, deep Irish accent as well. So there’s always going to be nuances like [00:52:45] that. And so we solve those basically not I. So we’re not in the in the process [00:52:50] of training an AI model. Because that means that any data that we handle, [00:52:55] which is your patient’s personal sensitive information, would be, would be being compromised [00:53:00] in training. So, um, there’s lots of things you can do. Um, uh, so [00:53:05] we do lots of things basically afterwards. So we, for example, just have a dictionary of clinical terms. For [00:53:10] example, a classic is buccal or buccal. And you know, by default the I will [00:53:15] always put out buccal of your shoe. We know about dentistry. Change all of those to buckle. [00:53:20] And there’s lots of examples of that. So that is really [00:53:25] important thing to do. We we uh handle that in Dan. That is not I. [00:53:30] And that means that we know what the output is going to be, because one of the challenges with AI [00:53:35] is it is magical, and it is unbelievable that a computer can do this. And [00:53:40] then we as people are consistently anthropomorphising that trying to turn [00:53:45] it into a person, but it is not deterministic and you put the same information in, you [00:53:50] will get a different information out. The transcription is is quite good at consistent, but when it comes [00:53:55] to other things like the generative stuff, but the same input in twice or three times or however many times [00:54:00] you’ll always get a slightly different output. So there are some things where it’s good and some things where it’s [00:54:05] it’s not the right technology.

[TRANSITION]: Back, back.

Ala: To why it’s relevant. Um, that’s [00:54:10] why if you are using AI for your records, if the indenture [00:54:15] organisations would prefer for you to keep your source information because the [00:54:20] the output is different every time and you know, if you’re using tools, welcome to [00:54:25] use the tools that make that happen. But please understand that it’s they will [00:54:30] never know what really happened. And they you know, what will happen when the dental law partnership [00:54:35] come across an AI generated record? Nobody knows because it hasn’t happened yet. [00:54:40] And we feel that you’ll be in a stronger position, you know, like jazz does. He records all [00:54:45] of the visits and he keeps those recordings, you know, and what the [00:54:50] the challenges are coming with that, because you don’t know where that information came [00:54:55] from that made that AI record. And it’s okay because you can say, you know, I checked it over fine, [00:55:00] but we still don’t know what the dental law partnership will make of that. And, you know, they’re [00:55:05] quite good at playing games and trashing records just because there’s a spelling mistake. That’s the same in two records, you know. [00:55:10] So and we feel that it’s safer and certainly been done to organisations feel it’s safer to have the [00:55:15] source information still.

Prav Solanki: So what so what I’m hearing here is that [00:55:20] you record the consultation and that record that recording [00:55:25] is the that’s the baseline, right? That is the source [00:55:30] of truth. That record. Yeah. Yes I did yeah [00:55:35] that I that’s produced is some models interpretation [00:55:40] of that master record right.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: And so then you get [00:55:45] sued and you say here’s my notes. And the lawyer turns around [00:55:50] and goes, yeah, great. Where did those come from? Because I [00:55:55] don’t know how this has been extrapolated to produce that. Yeah. Have you used some kind of templating [00:56:00] model or engine or have you used something that when you say one buzzword, it spits [00:56:05] out half of your notes.

[TRANSITION]: And.

Prav Solanki: Says, yeah, I said, I said the word perio [00:56:10] and then it gives you all the pocket, this, that or the other and whatnot and spits it out in your notes. [00:56:15] Saves you time. But you didn’t actually say that, right? Um, yeah. So I can [00:56:20] see, you know, I can see how this software has its advantages, where you just say one thing [00:56:25] and it fires all this out. But then, then the downside is that, like you say, this isn’t happened [00:56:30] yet, but it’s only around the corner that when this when this if this came to a case [00:56:35] and they had they had your generative AI produced notes and letter [00:56:40] and all the rest of it, you could still always back it up with the original transcripts, but [00:56:45] more importantly, the actual voice recording between you and patient. Right? [00:56:50]

Ala: And that’s where the kindness comes in. That’s where you hear [00:56:55] how that patient was and why you maybe didn’t push them further and give them more information. Maybe [00:57:00] it wasn’t appropriate at that time to give them more information. You. And that was a really good conversation [00:57:05] with Rajaratnam where he said, you know, that kindness, that context, [00:57:10] that interaction with that person is always lost in a written record, whether you’re generating [00:57:15] it in AI or whether you’re trying to write it down at the time. And all of that soft skill stuff, [00:57:20] which is valued in the GDC guidelines and it’s valued in the, um, CG [00:57:25] Dental guidelines. You know, that that is always lost in any written, um, version. [00:57:30]

[TRANSITION]: Do you know what, guys?

Prav Solanki: It’s just clicked.

[TRANSITION]: It has literally. [00:57:35]

Prav Solanki: Just clicked for me. It has literally just clicked for me. In that moment, I’m [00:57:40] sat here right talking about this audio recording, and I’m thinking about Dictaphones [00:57:45] and all the rest of it and whatnot, and you’re doing this recording and then you’re spitting out this transcript. Now you’ve got [00:57:50] the transcript. The hell do you need this recording for? Right. It’s the it’s [00:57:55] the tone of voice. It’s the language in your words. It’s the kindness. [00:58:00] Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: The kindness.

Prav Solanki: And and I totally dismissed that. Right. And I’ve just realised [00:58:05] that actually if you have, it’s.

[TRANSITION]: Like listening.

Prav Solanki: To a bloody podcast, isn’t it. [00:58:10]

[TRANSITION]: Right. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: It’s like listening to a podcast. You can. You can hear [00:58:15] the banter. You can hear when someone’s serious, when someone’s upset, [00:58:20] when someone’s excited, you know, a bunch of words are just a bunch of this is what people said, [00:58:25] but this is how they said it. And, you know, often we say at home, right? [00:58:30] We say this at home a lot. It’s not what you say, it’s how you [00:58:35] say it.

[TRANSITION]: Yes, you can say the same thing.

Prav Solanki: Two [00:58:40] different words mean two totally different things. Right? And I guess I guess what [00:58:45] you’re alluding to is it’s not just having that master audio note record, [00:58:50] which is a record of the words, but it’s a record of the sentiment, [00:58:55] the emotions, the feelings as you resorted to [00:59:00] Allah. The kindness. Yeah or no? Yeah. Um. [00:59:05] During that, it’s just clicked. It’s just clicked to me.

[TRANSITION]: Right this moment. Just just had that moment. [00:59:10] I actually. Do you know how much that means? Let me see it. [00:59:15]

Ala: I’m really pleased that you get it. I’m really pleased you get it. I get it now. It’s, um. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: It’s [00:59:20] just. Yeah, I’m.

Prav Solanki: Just annoyed that I haven’t got it up until now.

[TRANSITION]: We’re [00:59:25] much better.

Adam: At showing them now. At telling. Yeah. Can you.

[TRANSITION]: Match it? It’s [00:59:30] really easy. We tell people that without having an hour to talk about it first. It’s [00:59:35] really.

Prav Solanki: It’s really easy, guys. It’s really easy. Guys like it. Dental Audio [00:59:40] Notes is your emotive record of the patient consultation? Yeah. Yeah. [00:59:45]

[TRANSITION]: It communicates I. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. It communicates [00:59:50] the emotional intelligence that takes place in you and the words. Isn’t that [00:59:55] right? That’s not that. It’s it’s the it’s capturing the [01:00:00] sentiment and the emotions during a consultation. Not [01:00:05] just words. Yeah. Words without sentiment and emotion [01:00:10] are meaningless. Yeah, it can be worse.

Ala: It can be [01:00:15] worse. If you just read a transcript, it can be worse. It’s like reading a text the wrong way.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah yeah [01:00:20] yeah yeah yeah yeah. I’m so pleased you get it.

Prav Solanki: Yeah, yeah. Keyboard [01:00:25] warriors. Sms’s misinterpreted. Pick up the phone. Speak to someone. [01:00:30] You have a totally different conversation, right? We all know that.

[TRANSITION]: And, you.

Ala: Know, if you get the same when [01:00:35] you’re reading back your clinical record, because when you’ve written it yourself, you actually [01:00:40] hear a lot of the tone. If it’s AI generated, you lose some of what your tone was. So you’re actually [01:00:45] by only having the AI generated record, you can lose information that you would have otherwise [01:00:50] had if you’d sat down and read and written your notes for yourself. So there is a lot of nuance, and that’s [01:00:55] why for us, it is really important that we get clinical record just how that person wants it, [01:01:00] because there’s a reason that person wants it in exactly that way. That person has used [01:01:05] it in that way for ten years. They can look back at the record from ten years ago, and they can hear how they [01:01:10] felt about that appointment through how they’ve written those words. So yes, AI is amazing [01:01:15] because it does generate records really quickly. And actually I love it for the letters the most because that for [01:01:20] me has been so aspirational and easy to do. It takes 20s, but it [01:01:25] is important and that we will be working on that with people to get there. We do work on that already, to get [01:01:30] their record exactly how they want it to be, or as close as we can, because [01:01:35] that is important.

Prav Solanki: So that’s customised per clinician.

[TRANSITION]: Well, [01:01:40] what.

Ala: We do is we because we have that.

[TRANSITION]: Source.

Ala: Of [01:01:45] audio, we can allow people and enable people to have control over the AI prompting, [01:01:50] and that’s really exciting. So you can interact with your records. [01:01:55] So Dan is like your guy who sits in the corner, he remembers everything, and [01:02:00] then you can ask him to do tasks for you so you can be like that guy in the, you know, like a customer, [01:02:05] you know, getting the waiter, go write me some notes, you know, um, get me some. Yeah. [01:02:10] Get me a letter to the patient. Get me, get me this, get me that. Um. Now do it more in bullet [01:02:15] points. Do it. I want more detail here. Do it like this. I want it to look like these [01:02:20] notes. Make it look like these notes. Like it literally. You can. And we’ve given you like, you can leverage [01:02:25] the power of AI for exactly how you want it to be. And because we’ve got that source [01:02:30] data, we can do that. We can let people have open access. You can play we have outbox box, [01:02:35] you know, like buttons you can press. So it’s easy. You don’t have to play with it. But if you want to play with it, you [01:02:40] totally can. And that’s fun.

Prav Solanki: And so you say it’s not [01:02:45] ChatGPT. What is it?

Adam: Yeah. So, uh, or ChatGPT itself is [01:02:50] a product that OpenAI have made of users, their models for people. [01:02:55] Right. And it’s obviously tempting for anyone to, to use it. And I’m sure many people have. [01:03:00] And you can see what’s possible. So we, the whole AI world is going [01:03:05] so quickly. So there’s OpenAI with their GPT models, there’s [01:03:10] anthropic with cloud models, there’s a Google with Gemini models. And whilst [01:03:15] ChatGPT is no by far the most household recognisable name, um, [01:03:20] yeah. All these models are basically consistently leapfrogging each other. So we’re in a position [01:03:25] that we are able to use whatever model is most appropriate for the problem we’re using. [01:03:30] We are able to use OpenAI’s models. And one [01:03:35] of the things that we have in place, there is a zero retention policy with the agreement with OpenAI. [01:03:40] So they do not store any information. It is always transient. So we [01:03:45] are if we are using OpenAI’s services then that is in place there. We’re [01:03:50] also be really clear.

Ala: That means that your patient data will [01:03:55] never live on ChatGPT. Yeah, and it will never be learned [01:04:00] from. So there I think as a patient, I would want to know. [01:04:05] And I feel like my patients have a right to not have their data learned from by an AI [01:04:10] model because their name could come back in some way. You know, People don’t know how it works. People are [01:04:15] looking at it all the time. It just feels wrong. Does that make sense?

Prav Solanki: Is there a consent? You [01:04:20] know? No, I get it, I get it. And I would want to give consent for someone to learn [01:04:25] on my, my stuff. Right. But but having.

[TRANSITION]: Having said that as an option. Yeah. [01:04:30] We’re not having.

Ala: Said we don’t.

[TRANSITION]: Know I get I.

Prav Solanki: Get that but but is there a consent issue [01:04:35] here. Like let’s say you guys said you know what? Screw this. Everyone who uses [01:04:40] Dan is automatically opted in to have us learn [01:04:45] from their patients for the betterment of everyone who’s using Dan’s. Every time it gets used, [01:04:50] it gets smarter and more intelligent and cleverer and [01:04:55] better at doing everything. And you can see you can start seeing that, right. But you guys [01:05:00] have chosen not to do that. Is that.

[TRANSITION]: Due.

Prav Solanki: To is [01:05:05] it a.

[TRANSITION]: Consent thing.

Prav Solanki: Or.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, the.

Adam: Patient should consent to that. If that’s the objective of what you’re [01:05:10] doing, then the patient needs to be able to consent. The challenge with us is being audio. It’s very impossible. [01:05:15] It’s impossible to say that nothing in here is personally identifiable. [01:05:20] It’s different with an x ray. It’s it’s, you know, a sort of a [01:05:25] it’s an image and there’s no name in there, you know, you can easily [01:05:30] remove that. And so from that side they’re completely different structures. But [01:05:35] it’s easier to kind of use for example x rays and keep learning from that when it comes to your [01:05:40] conversation and transcriptions. We don’t know what’s in there. And you can’t assume that it’s [01:05:45] going to. In fact, you.

[TRANSITION]: Must assume.

Ala: That there’s something in there which mustn’t make [01:05:50] it outside of your ecosystem. And that’s why, all right. And that’s.

[TRANSITION]: Why I’ll play devil’s.

Prav Solanki: Advocate with you. [01:05:55] Right. So cool. I’m with you on that. And you say, okay, we’re playing by the rules because [01:06:00] there could be personally identifiable information. I’m not going to let that live with [01:06:05] ChatGPT with a whole bunch of other patients records so that we can all learn [01:06:10] from it. But now let’s say we take the transcript. And we use some kind [01:06:15] of AI model to pull out personally identifiable information. So we [01:06:20] left with a base of information that we can now go and learn off. Wouldn’t [01:06:25] that be okay?

Ala: We don’t need.

[TRANSITION]: To.

Ala: We don’t need to. The AI [01:06:30] is travelling at the fastest pace it possibly can. Like, there is [01:06:35] no way that we could have a massive enough team to make proper use of that data anyway, like it’s [01:06:40] just not who we are. We are like.

Adam: Building and building a model is a very [01:06:45] different exercise to using a model, and where we [01:06:50] are dealing with speech to text and then basically text to notes. That’s [01:06:55] what large language models are great at. The people what make large language models are heavily invested [01:07:00] in by Microsoft Facebook meta. You know it’s it’s yeah. We’re not in the position [01:07:05] to do that. It’s a different story. For example, with the x ray thing, it’s a completely different thing. That is a niche [01:07:10] AI that does a specific thing, identify x rays and and assess them. [01:07:15] And that’s completely different to to words and and summarisation I think.

Ala: It comes down to trust though. Prav. [01:07:20] Yeah, yeah, you need to trust that your people are going to look after your information properly, and they’re not just going [01:07:25] to turn around and do that. And you have to choose your people. You know, you have to choose and you want to you want [01:07:30] to give that information to you because you are giving them your information. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: So [01:07:35] back to my original question. I said, is it ChatGPT? And you kind of said, [01:07:40] well, we can use a bunch of things, right? Like anthropic and a whole bunch of other [01:07:45] things, Gemini and whatnot. Are you telling me that your that Dan has access [01:07:50] to more than one AI platform?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:07:55]

Prav Solanki: And yeah, you say?

[TRANSITION]: Oh, yeah. Like one.

Prav Solanki: Of [01:08:00] course. What are you talking about? Yeah. Prav. Of course. What do you what are you talking about? Right. But [01:08:05] it’s not blindingly obvious to everyone. Right? But maybe it’s maybe.

[TRANSITION]: To you as. [01:08:10]

Prav Solanki: Uh, as the as the developer. But I’m really curious. [01:08:15] Right. How how does it decide? Like, today, I’m going to [01:08:20] use Claude, tomorrow I’m going to use ChatGPT in the next time I’m going to use, like, whatever, [01:08:25] Gemini, this, that and the other. Or are you, are you constantly tweaking that? Like [01:08:30] what.

[TRANSITION]: So yeah.

Adam: So so so it’s always [01:08:35] so at the moment we’re in the point that every six weeks [01:08:40] or so, someone has made a next big advancement in these models, [01:08:45] know what I mean? But they also are trained differently and built differently and [01:08:50] operate differently from each other. So they all have these metrics that they try and outcompete each other with. [01:08:55] You know, there’s a huge data set. We perform this well on this, but they all have their [01:09:00] nuances for which they’re better at and things that they’re worse at. So one of the things with anthropic, [01:09:05] for example, is that we’re able to deploy that completely within our AWS infrastructure. [01:09:10] So if someone, for example, a corporate wanted to adopt [01:09:15] that, we can spin up their whole entire damn system in an isolated network. [01:09:20] It never goes outside of the system. It’s separate to everything else. It’s all air gaps. And everything is then [01:09:25] within essentially their network. So even the models allow different levels of deployment. [01:09:30] And yeah, so we are continuously exploring what is capable [01:09:35] with each of those models. We’ve got good results at the moment with the models that we’re using for the [01:09:40] for the specific tasks that we offer at the moment. But I mean, this is just a start. This is the obvious [01:09:45] killer app, right? Right. My notes for me, it’s the obvious first app. And what [01:09:50] dentists are going to realise they want to do next is is just this [01:09:55] is the start of that. And from that perspective, we have to be open minded in where we are going to go and [01:10:00] be considerate from a technical perspective of how can we keep as many doors open [01:10:05] in the future for us to go through those in different, different directions?

[TRANSITION]: It’s going to go.

Ala: In a [01:10:10] really exciting, you know, it’s fun to watch it now. It’s it’s you know, it saves [01:10:15] me so much time. It makes me a better dentist now. But [01:10:20] the future direction is awesome. But yeah, there’s there’s cool stuff coming [01:10:25] too.

Prav Solanki: Wow, wow. So what does the future hold [01:10:30] for? For down then? You seem excited about cool stuff coming, right? [01:10:35] Are you able to talk about this cool stuff?

Ala: I think the first bit is making it accessible, [01:10:40] available to people really easily so that, you know, not just the early [01:10:45] adopters are using it, but just normal dentists are. And I want them to have the. [01:10:50] I think people are rightfully cautious about adopting new technology that’s, you know, there’s [01:10:55] no rubber stamp from anybody at the moment that any of this is actually okay to use. And that’s what we’re [01:11:00] hoping to bring to the table next is a rubber stamp of like, you know, if you [01:11:05] we’re happy for you to use this product. We feel that this will help you if something happens in your operatory, [01:11:10] or we are happy for you to use this to make you more efficient, because we believe that this is a good company [01:11:15] who treats your data properly and.

[TRANSITION]: Will do it right.

Ala: So that’s our next thing is actually [01:11:20] letting the majority of dentists know that no, if you do it with us, we’ll keep you safe, [01:11:25] we’ll keep you good. And it will, um, potentially really help you if something happens. [01:11:30] And in the meantime, you can have a lot of fun with it. Like, you can just have your notes written for you. That’s fine. [01:11:35] Yeah, I think that’s. And then.

[TRANSITION]: You.

Adam: So step to that is our currently working with lots of integrations [01:11:40] with practice management systems. And this really exciting [01:11:45] speak to those guys because like we’re not trying to take anything away from the practice [01:11:50] management system. That is the heart of the patient record. That is where you should be. So we’re like, [01:11:55] hey, look, we managed to do this. We should give it to you. So help us give you the record. [01:12:00] But then those kinds of collated so much together that it’s this [01:12:05] is like the next first building block for people to start making those next links or work by combining this [01:12:10] with the charting or with this or that. And people’s imaginations can go well [01:12:15] wherever they want. That’s one of the things I think I has done for the world at the moment, [01:12:20] at least the Western world. It’s irrelevant of necessarily what actual use case I have [01:12:25] done. I has totally broken down the stigma of we’ve [01:12:30] always done something this way, why would we change? And people are not. People [01:12:35] have got over that barrier and they’re starting to think, well, what could we do? Partly because [01:12:40] they’ve been told that anything is possible, but that is what we’re really excited about, is [01:12:45] is being able to listen to what people, where they want to take it and basically allowing that to be [01:12:50] to be real. And that’s always going to come from collaboration, because not one company, not one organisation, [01:12:55] whether you are the biggest factors management system or you’re just Dental audio notes. [01:13:00] No one organisation is going to be able to really do [01:13:05] that by themselves. It’s going to take collaboration between people. And so.

[TRANSITION]: We’re really.

Ala: Enjoying that. [01:13:10] Like that’s that’s been some of the best stuff that’s happening at the moment. It’s that industry [01:13:15] collaboration coming together to make like, yeah, to make use of these tools and make [01:13:20] it available to vendors to make it real. Like, yeah, there’s some really great minds on it, like proper [01:13:25] people who are actual geniuses working on it. It’s very cool.

Prav Solanki: And [01:13:30] then, you know, uh, the other thing that I wanted to just touch base [01:13:35] on because it clicked when it clicked for me. Right. Does AI [01:13:40] help with sentiment analysis of the conversation? [01:13:45]

Ala: Really does. It really does. And, um, I think it’s one of [01:13:50] the reasons that I love my AI output. Um, because actually quite often it says like the dentist [01:13:55] was crying throughout the appointment, checking the patient was okay at various points. And, you [01:14:00] know, like, it will it will pick up on that.

[TRANSITION]: You know, have you ah have.

Prav Solanki: You ever tried being [01:14:05] have you ever tried to be a mean patient to see if it will give you a mean output or anything like that? [01:14:10]

[TRANSITION]: We’ve played with it. Have you ever messed with it? You [01:14:15] should give it a go. You should give it a go.

Prav Solanki: Can’t [01:14:20] imagine you being a mean dentist. I just can’t imagine that happening. But maybe you should. [01:14:25] Maybe you should just try it.

[TRANSITION]: I’ll do it with you. Yeah.

Adam: Yeah. [01:14:30] So one of the modes we have. So it’s all about different modes for the prompting. You’ve talked about how it. [01:14:35] Yeah how we generate it. So a lot of it comes down to the prompt design and prompt structure. And we’ve made [01:14:40] that so that from the dentists perspective it’s just a template. And [01:14:45] then the ability to just embellish your template to give better guidance for the AI. [01:14:50] We deal with a lot of the things like the kind of just before it gets processed, [01:14:55] organising things that are kind of that prompt, and then making sure that the and handling the prompt when [01:15:00] it comes out, making sure it’s displayed appropriately, making sure you can use your Dental shorthand [01:15:05] because that’s obviously something that large language models don’t do very well themselves. So there’s lots [01:15:10] of post-processing that we’re able to do. And it’s it’s instant. It’s a computer doing it to [01:15:15] make sure that the output is what you want. And so with three general modes of writing up the clinical record [01:15:20] use, this template is write a letter, which is from the dentist perspective, is just give a vague [01:15:25] outline of how you want it to structure. You want it to sound. But we also are in a position to allow you to have a [01:15:30] custom prompt where the transcription will be included, but you can start to ask questions of [01:15:35] that, and that could be sentiment analysis. It could be, you know, just starting [01:15:40] to get those ideas. And if you do use ChatGPT, I’ll sketch something out like an email and [01:15:45] I’ll be like, how would you improve this? And, and you can start to do that to yourself and your own [01:15:50] float. And I do know people that are users that use use it for training and helping [01:15:55] their associates. So they’re like, I’ve had a conversation. I’ve sold [01:16:00] a high value treatment plan. This is how I spoke about it. [01:16:05] And they can go to their associates and, and, and walk through that journey with them, [01:16:10] um, because they have that there. And it’s really helpful for training and reflection [01:16:15] as well as saving you heaps of time.

[TRANSITION]: You haven’t even.

Ala: Touched on the patient stories of it. [01:16:20] Um, because one of the things that we do is enable listening through the benefit of the patient. So [01:16:25] we have listened links. So you can choose to send the audio to a patient. Now [01:16:30] that’s been amazing because do you do that. Listen. Yeah I do yeah yeah [01:16:35] yeah yeah. So um there’s been it’s not all the time. I tend to [01:16:40] offer it when I can see the person’s maybe worried about their understanding, you know, and they’re [01:16:45] getting into their 70s, 80s. They’re maybe a bit worried about being forgetful. They’ve come on their own, you know, a bit vulnerable. [01:16:50] And you think, do you know what this person might just. And, you know, they say, oh, I’m a bit worried about it. [01:16:55] Say, okay, follow me along as we go. I’ll take an audio recording, I’ll [01:17:00] send it to you or I’ll send it to your daughter in Australia. Or, you know, you can go home, listen to it with [01:17:05] your family. When you’re listening to it properly, you can hear it again, and you can [01:17:10] know that you have all the information you need to make your best decision for you. And that’s why the NHS [01:17:15] is so interested in us. Because for their special care dentistry, that is just golden. You know, you [01:17:20] can leverage the power of that person’s support network to help them make the best decisions for themselves. [01:17:25] And that is. But you don’t have to do any extra work for it. You literally just press send Alteringly you know, you don’t [01:17:30] have to re Re Re you know, because before you’d have to ring them at home and, you know, make [01:17:35] sure they had all the information they needed and then, you know, it’s just not achievable. Whereas like this [01:17:40] way you can do that and you can do it every time and it takes you 30s it’s. Yeah. [01:17:45]

Prav Solanki: So interestingly, they’re right. And I know you’re talking about these special care patients [01:17:50] and the older patients don’t quite get it. There might be forgetful. You think, oh, they’re not.

[TRANSITION]: Going to take this [01:17:55] patients.

Ala: You can’t hear it.

[TRANSITION]: Well, but.

Prav Solanki: I’m thinking it from from another point of view. Right. Because [01:18:00] I’m the sales guy. Right. So, um, I teach people how to sell [01:18:05] more dentistry, right? In, in in a way that’s a very natural, [01:18:10] easy.

[TRANSITION]: To.

Prav Solanki: Communicate and how to articulate themselves better. But what’s the most [01:18:15] common objection or excuse for not proceeding [01:18:20] with a dental treatment plan on the day was what’s the number one excuse you [01:18:25] always get?

Ala: I’ll go home and think about it. I need.

[TRANSITION]: To go home to my.

Ala: Family [01:18:30] to.

[TRANSITION]: Go. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yes, yes. And that for me [01:18:35] would be amazing. When someone says I need to [01:18:40] go and speak to my chat it through with my husband, my wife, they need to understand it’s an investment we’re making [01:18:45] together, whatever it is, right? We’re spending our family money on, on on my teeth. Right. [01:18:50] All right. I can send you a transcript. Cool. You got the words. But if I [01:18:55] send you the audio recording, you’ve got the sentiment, you’ve got the kindness, you’ve [01:19:00] got the emotion, you’ve got the response, the question. And it’s [01:19:05] the it’s the full picture, right?

Ala: You’ve got that opening up of yourself that [01:19:10] you trust that what you’re saying is good enough, that you are happy for that person to take it out into [01:19:15] the world. So you’re building trust, you’re building your relationship. And then we can tell, [01:19:20] um, how whether it’s being listened to, which parts then listen to and how many times it’s being listened to. [01:19:25] So you get a little bit of feedback coming back to you about that as well. So if you’re then interesting follow up on that. [01:19:30] You can follow up after they’ve listened to you and you can say like, oh, did you have time to listen to that? You know, have you listened [01:19:35] to that with that person? And, you know, we’ve had loads of stories of people, you know, one, one lady being able [01:19:40] to have an extraction without sedation because she went home and [01:19:45] listened to it with her family and another lady who went home and she’s a big philanthropist. [01:19:50] She listened to it with her accountant over a cup of tea to see if they could find £30,000 for all the [01:19:55] philanthropic groups to get her her full mouth implants. You know, there’s all sorts of stories.

[TRANSITION]: That. [01:20:00]

Ala: Way leveraging that. Yeah, but that was Adam’s bit because he was like, [01:20:05] I don’t know about Dental Street. You talk to me. I kind of listened. I kind of don’t listen. And I come home and I’m like, [01:20:10] well, I mean, the dentist next week can’t really remember what it’s for. That’s [01:20:15] the reality for most people.

[TRANSITION]: It’s going to cost a few quid. And [01:20:20] your wife’s the dentist. Yeah, [01:20:25] yeah, but.

Ala: I thought the same thing with my mum, incidentally. It’s quite funny, but. Yeah, it’s, um. [01:20:30] It is, it’s really, it’s really genuinely valuable for patients.

[TRANSITION]: And that.

Ala: Is [01:20:35] I.

[TRANSITION]: That.

Ala: Yeah, it’s a good thing.

Prav Solanki: I see, just because [01:20:40] of the reason that it clicked earlier on during this conversation. I [01:20:45] see the value of it now, even in sales, to be able to send the sentiment [01:20:50] and the emotion to your partner, your parents, your loved ones, [01:20:55] whoever it is, and for you both to sit down and listen to it and for them [01:21:00] to be able to hear the excitement, the fear, whatever it is [01:21:05] in your voices, right? And the genuine, you know, kindness [01:21:10] that comes from the from the clinician. It’s almost like they can have the consultation again, right [01:21:15] at their own pace. I think what’s really interesting is you guys get insight into how [01:21:20] many times it’s been listened to when they listen to.

[TRANSITION]: It.

Prav Solanki: So on and so forth. So your TCO [01:21:25] can pick up the phone and go, oh, I noticed, um, you spent some time sharing the [01:21:30] notes and so on and so forth. Did you have any further questions? Would you like to pop in again, [01:21:35] that sort of thing?

[TRANSITION]: Pretty cool line.

Ala: Prav that you say like, is there any more information [01:21:40] that you that I can give you before for you to make your decision? You know, it’s that kind [01:21:45] of you can utilise all of that. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Really. Absolutely.

Prav Solanki: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah yeah [01:21:50] yeah. Is there is there any more information that you need before you can make a decision on this, [01:21:55] um, treatment? Yeah. Have I missed anything out. Yeah. And that’s [01:22:00] you know what? I learned something from a TCO the other day, and, um, I was in a consultation [01:22:05] with her, and she said to. She said to the patient, so what are we thinking? What [01:22:10] are we thinking? Where’s your head at right now? Right. [01:22:15] And that’s to.

[TRANSITION]: Me. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

Prav Solanki: It’s I’m meeting you where you’re [01:22:20] at. Right. And we are thinking this through together. And it’s not like you’re not playing a guessing [01:22:25] game now is like, in your head, you’re probably thinking, shit, this is really expensive. [01:22:30] In my head, I’m thinking, is she going to go ahead with this treatment plan or not? Do you think it’s too.

[TRANSITION]: Expensive. [01:22:35]

Prav Solanki: Or do you think it’s too cheap? But if you say to that patient, what are we thinking, [01:22:40] right? We’re on the same side. And just in that change in sentiment [01:22:45] of language, you can make a big impact on, on on patients opening up at [01:22:50] the end and saying, you know what, it’s a little bit more than I expected, right?

Ala: Yeah. [01:22:55] And I imagine all of those hours that those dentists are giving their patients [01:23:00] with their tcos. And who’s writing those tcos notes for them? Right. How does the [01:23:05] TCO get credit for all of those beautiful lines that they say that help that person to make those decisions? [01:23:10] Like nobody’s doing that? So, but because we can be implemented across the practice, [01:23:15] you can have down in every single, in every single room with everybody using it doesn’t cost you any [01:23:20] more to do that. And it means that your tcos can use it, your hygienists can use it, your front [01:23:25] desk staff can use it if they have a private room, if they want to. You know, it’s it’s it [01:23:30] it’s genuinely for everybody to use for when they’re having those good conversations that they want [01:23:35] to get credit for. Like, I do this really well, actually. I want to get credit for that. I don’t want to rely on like my three lines [01:23:40] that I had time to write at the end before I saw my next patient. I want to I want to, you know. Yeah, I want to [01:23:45] show off.

Prav Solanki: Okay. Um, I’m mindful we’re getting we’re getting towards [01:23:50] the end of the show.

[TRANSITION]: Yes, absolutely.

Prav Solanki: And I’ve got a few more questions [01:23:55] for you, though. And one of them is, is just more of a for those people out there [01:24:00] who want to learn about Dental audio notes, maybe give it a whirl, um, [01:24:05] and try try it out. How can they how can they find you? We’re [01:24:10] going to put the link to your website in the show notes anyway, but how can they just [01:24:15] give Dental audio notes a try and and what’s involved? Do we need to go out and buy [01:24:20] a microphone on Amazon? Is it one of these that you can just clip onto your collar? [01:24:25] Can you use a wireless one? Does it have to be wired and hooked up to be. Well, how how do we get started [01:24:30] with that?

Adam: So getting started with Dan is super easy. Visit our website [01:24:35] Dental audio notes.com and you just drop in your email address and from there it’ll take [01:24:40] you to the system, setting your password. And you’re ready to go download that onto your computer. [01:24:45] And you will need a microphone for your very first go. If you happen [01:24:50] to be in front of your computer and it’s, for example, a laptop, that’ll work fine for you. But the very first [01:24:55] moment for the clinic, we do recommend a wireless microphone that just allows you to put it [01:25:00] on your tunic, and that’s a perfect position for your patient and for you for the voice [01:25:05] to get picked up.

Ala: Just a little side note on that. I find having it on the front of my tunic a bit [01:25:10] invasive, so I took it on the inside. So you just see the little blue light sticking out and the speaker sticking [01:25:15] out, and I find that patients don’t even notice it because you’ve got your loops on anyway, and, you know, lights and all [01:25:20] that kind of stuff. So they’re just expecting it. So it’s not so in-your-face. And the other thing you can do is [01:25:25] if there’s a magnet, you can click it on your you can just hit it on the chair. There’s normally a metal bit on the chair, so if you didn’t [01:25:30] want it on you, you can put it on the chair. Or if you’re in a small room, you could have a wired [01:25:35] one. But um, yeah, we found the wireless ones. Good. If you’re going to do it. And [01:25:40] if you’re really excited about it, then get yourself a rode wireless mic. Um, they’re really [01:25:45] good, and there’s loads of little things that they think about. You know, we hope that [01:25:50] it’s how you feel when you use our software.

Ala: There’s loads of little things that we thought about that just make life easy. [01:25:55] Just make it really good flow and some of the cheaper mics have got in the way of that a little bit. So [01:26:00] if you want to do it, go out and spend £100. Get yourself a mic. This is the way this is [01:26:05] going to be the new standard. This is going to be how people make their records for the future. [01:26:10] So it is an investment that, you know, this is happening. It’s not going [01:26:15] away. And you know how people used to just write like one line in pencil. How [01:26:20] are we doing notes now is going to look like that in another five years time. So of course it is making investment. [01:26:25] Do it. Do it right and you’ll get the best results. And if you get the best transcript [01:26:30] you’ll get lovely results coming out. So yeah, that’s that’s that’s amazing. Um, [01:26:35] you can do it because we don’t take any card details before people [01:26:40] have had a chance to use it. So you can use it. Just use it. It’s yeah, it’s [01:26:45] a no brainer.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. If I was advising you on this, I might have another different [01:26:50] conversation with you about.

[TRANSITION]: How you should approach your business. But let’s.

Prav Solanki: Not go there.

[TRANSITION]: Guys. [01:26:55] It’s a free. It’s a.

Prav Solanki: Free. It’s a free for all guys. Just get stuck in. Doesn’t cost. [01:27:00]

[TRANSITION]: You anything.

Prav Solanki: Um.

[TRANSITION]: Really doesn’t.

Prav Solanki: It’s not a charity. Um, but. [01:27:05]

[TRANSITION]: These guys.

Prav Solanki: Are running a business. Um, but but let’s not even go there.

[TRANSITION]: I believe.

Ala: That you. [01:27:10] We believe that people will really enjoy it. And really, you’re so confident.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:27:15]

Prav Solanki: You’re so confident about your product. People will fall in love with Dan and then put their credit card down afterwards. [01:27:20]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.

Prav Solanki: I get that and so far [01:27:25] so good. And final question and we ask this to all of our guests. So you know what’s coming up next. [01:27:30] Um, so so, Arlo, we’ll start with you. [01:27:35] Um, it’s your last day on the planet. You’ve got your babies [01:27:40] around you, and you’ve got to leave them with three pieces of wisdom. [01:27:45] What would you say?

Ala: So I would pass down the same [01:27:50] bits of wisdom that came from my family. So my grandma. [01:27:55] Be happy with what you have. My [01:28:00] dad legal, decent, honest and truthful. And [01:28:05] my mum. Fake it till you make it. So I don’t know where she came from.

[TRANSITION]: Legal. [01:28:10]

Prav Solanki: Decent. Honest. Truthful. Fake it till you make [01:28:15] it. Love it, love it.

[TRANSITION]: Marriage.

Prav Solanki: That’s amazing. [01:28:20] That’s amazing. And what about yourself, Adam?

Adam: Um, [01:28:25] well, obviously having a kids as well. You start to think about that a lot. And [01:28:30] I, first of all, make sure you have time to play and enjoy yourself. Like, [01:28:35] that’s really important.

[TRANSITION]: And so.

Adam: Explore, explore and be inquisitive. [01:28:40] So that’s asking questions and pushing boundaries. And um, and [01:28:45] hopefully that’s linked to play. Then you’ll just really enjoy things and finding new new ground. [01:28:50] Um, and then the third is to listen to those [01:28:55] who have been on this planet longer than you, because the older I get or the [01:29:00] stages of life that I go through, you realise that how how when you were younger, you’re looking up [01:29:05] and you know you’re questioning what you’re being told from, from up there, but you don’t appreciate [01:29:10] it that wisdom until later on. And so yeah, it’s it’s taken [01:29:15] on board. It’s not all gospel but taken on board and reflect on what, what [01:29:20] elders are telling you. And that’ll set you good.

Prav Solanki: That’s [01:29:25] nice. That’s really nice.

[TRANSITION]: Um, yeah. What would.

Ala: Yours be?

Prav Solanki: Oh, [01:29:30] crikey.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Ala: I’ve always been dying to ask you that one, because you’ve [01:29:35] picked up a lot over the years. There’s been a lot of good words of advice that have come through. [01:29:40] I put you on the spot so you could just.

[TRANSITION]: Bloody well have, haven’t you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [01:29:45]

Prav Solanki: So what? So what would mine be? What would mine be? Yeah. Um. [01:29:50] Enjoy yourself. Yeah. There’s very, very few [01:29:55] times I listen to everyone talk about, like, very, very serious things. Right on this, on [01:30:00] this podcast and stuff and around career and ambition. But [01:30:05] I think, you know, we’re here for a very short time. [01:30:10] Um, all of us. Um, the passage of time is really short. Bloody [01:30:15] enjoy it. Yeah. Enjoy the ride. Right. Happiness. Happiness [01:30:20] is is reflecting in that moment and enjoying that. You know that time, [01:30:25] right, with the people who are around you, right? So. So focus [01:30:30] on enjoying your time. Yeah. I think that’s one of the [01:30:35] most important things. Um, surround yourself with love. [01:30:40] And and what I mean by that is people who love you and people [01:30:45] who you love. Surround yourself by those people and [01:30:50] take some bloody risks. Yeah, go for it. Believe in yourself, [01:30:55] believe in yourself and take some risks. Yeah, those [01:31:00] would be. Those would be my three. Do you know what? I’ve never thought about it. I’ve [01:31:05] never thought in all the times I’ve been asking this question, I’ve never thought about it.

[TRANSITION]: Thank [01:31:10] you for sharing with us. Sorry [01:31:15] for putting you on the spot. No. That’s wonderful.

Ala: Every time I listen to it, I’ve [01:31:20] always been like, but what are yours?

[TRANSITION]: Wicked.

Prav Solanki: I’m glad you did. I’m glad [01:31:25] you did. Thank you. It’s been. It’s been a pleasure being a guest on the Dental Leaders podcast.

[TRANSITION]: Yes. [01:31:30]

[VOICE]: This [01:31:35] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:31:40] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:31:45] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:31:50] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And [01:31:55] just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had [01:32:00] to say and what our guests has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

[TRANSITION]: If [01:32:05] you did get.

Payman Langroudi: Some value out of it, think about subscribing, and if you would share [01:32:10] this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so so much for listening. Thanks. [01:32:15]

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.