Payman Langroudi: Talk about it. The whole point of this is talking about it. Yes, true.

Giovanni Martino: The reason why I’m getting upset [00:00:05] is because the NHS has a great potential, but it’s [00:00:10] an unexpressed in dentistry. It’s true because it’s [00:00:15] where I learned treatment planning and I a [00:00:20] lot of people were putting pressure on me. Patients manager and I was [00:00:25] I was mentee. So the mentor. Et cetera. Et cetera. Yeah. Uh, and I had [00:00:30] the strength of not compromising my dentistry. Uh huh. What [00:00:35] I mean is, I was not the as good as today, but I [00:00:40] was putting the rubber down.

Payman Langroudi: You were doing things right?

Giovanni Martino: Yes. In the right, I was taking pictures. I was [00:00:45] taking.

Payman Langroudi: Making no money. Right.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:50] is Dental Leaders, the [00:00:55] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [00:01:00] Your hosts Payman Langroudi [00:01:05] and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to [00:01:10] welcome Giovanni Martino onto the podcast. I first met Giovanni in [00:01:15] Bristol. Yes, on mini spa makeover. Correct? Um, but [00:01:20] also, uh, working with Alfonso and Massimo where you were the correct director [00:01:25] of the Delta.

Giovanni Martino: Correct?

Payman Langroudi: Academy. Yes. Which is like a [00:01:30] getting some of the top guys in Italy to come and teach. Yeah. In [00:01:35] Bristol.

Giovanni Martino: The Delta is, uh, one [00:01:40] of my is still one of my dream jobs [00:01:45] because, uh, what I do there is, um, organise [00:01:50] the study club, but more specifically [00:01:55] connecting people. So I contacted the guys that these guys coming to [00:02:00] speak and, uh, come to here, come to have fun, basically. [00:02:05] Then we, we we drink. So we got drunk at [00:02:10] the end of the day, uh, and, uh, fun fact, I, I, [00:02:15] I met a patient just out of the Delta, um, headquarter [00:02:20] and they say, oh, but what are you doing here? No, we are doing this this [00:02:25] study club. I was trying to explain what was a study club. And I sum it up [00:02:30] like it’s a room full of dentists that is getting drunk [00:02:35] and they’re getting drunk. And he said, this is exactly how I imagined the [00:02:40] hell in a room full of dentists drunk. But [00:02:45] yeah, that’s what happened.

Payman Langroudi: I imagine you also learn a lot by attending [00:02:50] all of that, right? Because I say.

Giovanni Martino: That very loudly. Because that’s [00:02:55] the reason why I do it. I, I, I learn from the speakers, of course, [00:03:00] but also from the, the guys that come to attend to the to the study club. Yeah. [00:03:05] Yeah, I learned a lot. Even if it’s in pills. Yeah, but there is [00:03:10] where the tips are coming from.

Payman Langroudi: Are you teaching on it as well or are you just organising it? [00:03:15]

Giovanni Martino: I’m organising it. Um, the reason why I’m [00:03:20] not the kind of person yet or like that kind of [00:03:25] philosophy, like constitutionally that, uh, has [00:03:30] that kind of confidence to say, now I’m teaching you something [00:03:35] that you didn’t know or like, I’m going to change your career [00:03:40] or whatever. I’m not that kind of, you know, you [00:03:45] see, a.

Payman Langroudi: Bit young for it, right?

Giovanni Martino: I’m 31.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, you look younger. [00:03:50] You look younger than 31.

Giovanni Martino: Thank you very much.

Payman Langroudi: Although, although these days people are teaching straight out of university.

Giovanni Martino: Exactly. [00:03:55] And I don’t understand. I mean, of course you can learn from everybody. Don’t get me wrong. You can learn [00:04:00] also from me, but, uh, I’m I’m I will I will [00:04:05] probably do it in a in a second moment of my life. I’m in a second stage of my career. But [00:04:10] at the moment, I’m not the kind of person who say, you know, I know how to do this. [00:04:15] I’m going to teach it to you.

Payman Langroudi: You’re more humble than that.

Giovanni Martino: I actually in the learning curve still. [00:04:20] So I don’t want to teach you anything that.

Payman Langroudi: Annoys me a bit when you talk to a young [00:04:25] dentist and they say, I want to teach, and you say, well, you know.

Giovanni Martino: He’s [00:04:30] it’s very nice to have that kind of ambition, don’t get me wrong. But, [00:04:35] um, but and I love connecting. I love [00:04:40] staying with people. I love speaking in front of a crowd. I’ve done some lectures there [00:04:45] as well. Um, no lecture talks. Yeah, but, uh, I’m [00:04:50] not I’m not the kind of person to say, today I’m going to do a course. I’m going to put down [00:04:55] a course. Yeah, I can do some stuff, but not not.

Payman Langroudi: But your CV is quite impressive for someone [00:05:00] of your age. Oh. Thank you. Um, from what I could see of it, there was a lot of endo [00:05:05] in there. Yeah, I lost a lot of digital.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And implants too.

Giovanni Martino: I did, [00:05:10] I did the Alphonso’s course with, uh, with placing implants. I placed the implant in that [00:05:15] course. Um, but I didn’t have the chance to place it yet, [00:05:20] as I would like to. Um, not not really. I [00:05:25] don’t want to become an implant ologist.

Payman Langroudi: That’s the thing. Implants is almost an all or nothing, isn’t it? It’s one of [00:05:30] those areas.

Giovanni Martino: Can I tell you a little thing that I’m starting [00:05:35] to believing into? The the. [00:05:40] There is a problem in this country. I mean, probably this is not the right way [00:05:45] of saying it, but, uh, the Initialisation uh, [00:05:50] field uh, is difficult to access. Exactly [00:05:55] as you say. The implant is, uh, all in [00:06:00] all, you do implant or you don’t do implants. Uh, I [00:06:05] I’m not I’m not a huge fan of this kind of also. And I’m not a huge fan of, say, I [00:06:10] don’t Leonardo. Uh, I believe more in the.

Payman Langroudi: Generalist with an with [00:06:15] an interest.

Giovanni Martino: Not even super general, super [00:06:20] general practitioner. So people that, for example, I love doing endo [00:06:25] and I love doing high standard. I love I love doing composite and [00:06:30] I love doing high standard. I don’t I love doing indirect restoration [00:06:35] and I love doing in high standard. I don’t love doing denture, but I do it as [00:06:40] as better as I can. Uh, but yeah. And orthodontics. [00:06:45] I like doing orthodontics and I try to do my best and whitening, [00:06:50] I try to do my best and etc. etc.. An implant of course. Implants. You need to know a little [00:06:55] bit more of all the fields that you need [00:07:00] to know a lot of period. You need to know a lot of procedure. You need to know a bit of everything to put [00:07:05] your feet in implants. So you need to be cautious. But yeah, this is the.

Payman Langroudi: More traditional [00:07:10] way of looking at it, right? Back in the day, that’s that’s what people used to do. But these [00:07:15] days you do get young dentists saying, I only want to do x, Y or Z.

Giovanni Martino: That’s [00:07:20] the vertical.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the reason that you believe in this generalising.

Giovanni Martino: Uh. That’s [00:07:25] pretty. It’s not about, uh, um, so sorry. The [00:07:30] question is what the reason why I believe in the generalised super is I call it super [00:07:35] dental general practitioner. Like, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Because there’s more interesting.

Giovanni Martino: Uh, [00:07:40] no, I think that we get into a level of knowledge [00:07:45] and skills technique that we can learn, uh, that [00:07:50] give us the, the, the actually [00:07:55] the skills of referring out very little amount of jobs, extreme cases. [00:08:00] Um, something that, for example, you are not skilled to do. [00:08:05] You didn’t learn to do. For example, I’m speaking about like, uh, [00:08:10] full arch or something quite.

Payman Langroudi: A niche, a [00:08:15] paragraph.

Giovanni Martino: Or a paragraph, a paragraph. Actually, it’s very easy to do. Is it? Yes. [00:08:20] The. Yeah. The point is that we see it as, oh my gosh, [00:08:25] that’s going to be very difficult. If you speak with the patients and you spend time with [00:08:30] them, which not a lot of people does. Yeah. Uh, yeah. They [00:08:35] are going to accept the fact that you are not a specialist, but you are going to do [00:08:40] what they want.

Payman Langroudi: Particularly if you’ve got mentors. I mean, I think mentoring.

Giovanni Martino: Is a essential. [00:08:45] It’s essential.

Payman Langroudi: It’s essential if you want to be that kind of dentist. Right. Because if you’ve got [00:08:50] someone like Massimo around the corner or Alfonso around the corner, sure take on a huge [00:08:55] job and knock on the door when, when when you don’t know what to do. But the guy sitting in a [00:09:00] practice in, you know, outside Birmingham, he hasn’t got he hasn’t he [00:09:05] hasn’t got. These experts agree.

Giovanni Martino: But your mentor doesn’t [00:09:10] need to be next door. Be all the time. Agree what what [00:09:15] the mentor needs to need to give you is the skills [00:09:20] of, uh, or the knowledge of, of case selection. Mhm. So [00:09:25] you need to know exactly what is the case that [00:09:30] is most likely to be successful, rather than a case that [00:09:35] you don’t know. And you try and you fail. Yeah. Uh, even if [00:09:40] My best investment in dentistry [00:09:45] and I can put the hand on the fire is the camera. And [00:09:50] the reason why I like, I think, is the best investment that I’ve done [00:09:55] in my life. It was actually Alfonso’s graduate [00:10:00] graduating present, my first camera, and I started doing [00:10:05] my picture with that. Nice. Uh, but the reason why I like that [00:10:10] I actually invested a lot in it is because I can actually [00:10:15] see what I’ve done with the something that is objective [00:10:20] and is something that is stay in the time. In fact, [00:10:25] I always say that the one that I’m going to do is the best restoration [00:10:30] that I can give, because I always improve from [00:10:35] my mistakes.

Payman Langroudi: And by looking at photos. By looking. [00:10:40]

Giovanni Martino: At photos. That’s the the first thing that you need to do that. That I’m doing. [00:10:45] Luckily, I have a lot of, uh, SD cards in my bag. [00:10:50] So that’s what I.

Payman Langroudi: Was going to ask you. Is that in a day, are you taking literally like 50 photos [00:10:55] a day?

Giovanni Martino: At the beginning, yes. But now I have the I, I select a little bit more [00:11:00] which one I’m going to, which case I’m going to take the pictures of. Even if, [00:11:05] even if the the case is not like it’s not, I know [00:11:10] that it’s not going to be Instagram level. Uh, I take the [00:11:15] pictures. The reason why is because I can show to the patients what was underneath [00:11:20] the restoration that they had and, um, and [00:11:25] what are the limitations that I have to build up the tools if in case [00:11:30] of, of of composite in case of crowns or. Yeah. [00:11:35] That’s the optional doing pictures. The [00:11:40] rest is needed. For example, I think about orthodontics. I do a lot of, uh, orthodontics, [00:11:45] I do a lot of lighting, I do a lot of whitening. And you need a picture. [00:11:50] You cannot go ahead.

Payman Langroudi: And do real orthodontics or I do.

Giovanni Martino: I do fix cases [00:11:55] as well. Yeah. Because I’ve done a master’s degree in Italy with, uh, yeah. With [00:12:00] uh, with orthodontist. And they taught us how to place place, [00:12:05] um, brackets and, um, [00:12:10] yeah, a few patients say me yes, because it’s slightly cheaper and yeah, [00:12:15] they don’t mind brackets. So I am doing actually I’m still finishing [00:12:20] it. And in that case I have multiple mentors that are not next door [00:12:25] that I’m telling you in this. Now you need to do that. Now [00:12:30] you need to do that in one month. Do that. So that’s [00:12:35] how important is having a mentor and give them presence as well? Of [00:12:40] course. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: So you’ve been in the UK now for five years, correct? [00:12:45] Is it five? Yeah. How many years did you practice in Italy?

Giovanni Martino: Oh, [00:12:50] barely. Not even one. Oh, really? Yeah. I barely worked in Italy. [00:12:55] If you think if you consider working as a [00:13:00] paid remuneration. Remunerative, remunerative [00:13:05] occupation. I was not getting paid anything down there in Italy [00:13:10] because there’s that toxic, uh, behaviour [00:13:15] from the boss. So they say you need to learn first, which is fine, [00:13:20] but I was actually finishing university, and my mother was not happy to pay any more [00:13:25] for.

Payman Langroudi: For everything.

Giovanni Martino: For everything. And I say I need to make some money. So [00:13:30] if you are not paying me, I need to leave. So I came [00:13:35] here because of course, it was a necessity. Actually, I came in 2018, [00:13:40] at the end of 2018 and before to get the qualification [00:13:45] in the UK, the GDC registration number, I’ve done [00:13:50] reception and and um, uh [00:13:55] trainers proudly reason because [00:14:00] I was I was paid minimum wage. Uh, I [00:14:05] was anyway be able to pay the rent because I was sharing a house [00:14:10] at the time. Uh, I was studying English to get the qualification. I [00:14:15] was speaking at the phone with people to book the appointments, learning [00:14:20] how to use. Yeah. Oh, that’s that was. That was very difficult. [00:14:25] And of course, doing nurses, uh, the nursing with someone [00:14:30] that then become my colleague. What? Why? [00:14:35] The reason why, I’m saying proudly. Because [00:14:40] there are a lot of dentists and they are next to me, next door to me, [00:14:45] that are complaining all the time about patients, about complaining [00:14:50] about everything, about also the money to the nurses. And that’s [00:14:55] something that, uh oh my gosh, I can I, I you [00:15:00] cannot do that because you are in a privileged [00:15:05] position. You for sure were more lucky [00:15:10] than, than the nurse in life because you were able [00:15:15] to study something that is super interesting. And even [00:15:20] if you work part time, you make more money than them. And, [00:15:25] uh, so you need to know where the people [00:15:30] that come that works with you, for you to, to make you charge what [00:15:35] you’re charging to press the button there are struggling with uh, [00:15:40] and that’s something that, uh, a lot of people, because we live in a bubble, [00:15:45] we live in a bubble that doesn’t make see [00:15:50] through the bubble that we live.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. And but that’s something happened [00:15:55] also with patients because we live in this bubble. Dentist, [00:16:00] dentist. We met each other multiple times because [00:16:05] you are in you are in London. I am in Bristol. But the world of dentistry [00:16:10] is very small. We live in a bubble and we know that we can [00:16:15] afford going on holiday. We know that we can afford a nice car, we know that we can [00:16:20] afford the mortgage. And. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Even if nowadays, not [00:16:25] even that is that Granted. Uh. But the patients [00:16:30] have a struggle life that when they when they sit on our chair, [00:16:35] they are like, oh, my gosh, how much is going to charge me? How [00:16:40] hurt, how much is going to hurt me? And and this is the reason why [00:16:45] they hate us and we don’t spend time [00:16:50] with them. We don’t know our patients. So I really think that the, the reason [00:16:55] why of having a great conversion rate is spending [00:17:00] time with them, knowing them how I can [00:17:05] do the same treatment plan to a builder. Don’t [00:17:10] get me wrong about the job. I don’t want to be any with the with the honour of being a builder or to a [00:17:15] teacher, right? Because the builder can [00:17:20] take some time off the teacher only in summer or afternoon. [00:17:25] So and knowing what they do, knowing what [00:17:30] they their lifestyle is make you. Mhm. [00:17:35] Um, make you create [00:17:40] a custom made treatment plan that is more, much likely more compatible than [00:17:45] this is the, the bills that you need to pay. This is one, two, three, four, five fillings [00:17:50] for sure. And the the reason why I’m talking too much probably [00:17:55] you would like to ask your podcast.

Payman Langroudi: Yes.

Giovanni Martino: I podcast [00:18:00] with my patients. So I ask open questions like you did now and they [00:18:05] start speaking to me. Yeah, they I start with what did you what did what did you do today? [00:18:10] And they start thinking, they start saying, uh, nothing. Today is my day off. [00:18:15] Uh, so what what do you do in the other days? Or, like walking [00:18:20] the dog? So I start meeting them. And the fun thing is [00:18:25] that I came across two lovely stories. Yeah. [00:18:30] Do you know the Aardman, the the film production? Oh, yeah. [00:18:35] That is based in Bristol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the artists is my patient, and I work [00:18:40] in a dental practice. This is a super general practitioner. And the practice, I mean, like, is [00:18:45] what’s the name of the character? The the the one that they do the Muppets. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What’s it [00:18:50] called?

Giovanni Martino: Aardman. Oh, they did a lot of movies. They did like the, the.

Payman Langroudi: Famous [00:18:55] one where they won an Oscar and all that.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. They did. Yeah, I guess. Which one? I don’t remember the [00:19:00] dog and the postman. Yeah, yeah. But also chicken run. The running [00:19:05] chicken. Chicken run. Yeah. So yeah. They’ve done. And one of the. I say tell [00:19:10] me more, tell me more about what do you do? I don’t want to know [00:19:15] how much can you afford. Because if you work and you need to pay your endo, you [00:19:20] can save up. You can also pay in finance if you want and you can afford it. [00:19:25] So it’s very difficult nowadays to [00:19:30] don’t afford something if you work, if you don’t work, if you’re on benefit, that’s another matter. [00:19:35] That’s another kind of conversation. But if you work [00:19:40] and if you spend time with your patients, your conversion rate should be should [00:19:45] be acceptable for sure.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, it’s very interesting what you’re saying [00:19:50] because the you know, now I’ve stopped practising 12, [00:19:55] 13 years ago, like.

Giovanni Martino: You know, I’m joking.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Well, I get that quite [00:20:00] a lot. I get that quite a lot when I say it, but, but and it’s very fashionable these days to want to stop [00:20:05] being a dentist. Yeah. It’s like a, it’s a, it’s a thing people are talking about. Now, I can tell you once [00:20:10] you stop being a dentist, you come to realise really, what was it that [00:20:15] you liked and disliked about the job? Yeah. And I think it’s different for different [00:20:20] people, of course, but for me, this, that those conversations were [00:20:25] the most important part of the job for me. Yeah. The more important than [00:20:30] definitely the Meccano, you know, putting the Lego part of dentistry. Yeah, yeah. I [00:20:35] didn’t particularly enjoy treatment planning because I wasn’t very good at treatment planning. Okay. So I found it a very dangerous, difficult area. [00:20:40] I didn’t like blood very much, you know, surgery, any of that? Yeah. Yeah. I kind [00:20:45] of needed to do some some adhesive dentistry, which I did enjoy. Like you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:20:50] but what I miss is people. Yeah. Humans. Yeah. And and [00:20:55] and friendships, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And and I used to work in places where, you know, [00:21:00] you’re saying the patient can’t afford it. I just work at places where the patient was many times richer than me. [00:21:05] Sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, big time international banker guy. These [00:21:10] guys can teach you so much. Or the guy was, I don’t know, a journalist. Um, you know, head of head of [00:21:15] some political journalism at the feet or something.

Giovanni Martino: The guy with the amazing stories. [00:21:20]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And then I realised back then, and I with my dentist friends, I see it [00:21:25] now. We’re talking about any any subject at all. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever the subject is, my dentist friends [00:21:30] will say one of my patients told me that I’ve got a patient who does that and keep referring [00:21:35] to their patients. Yes. And I don’t have that resource anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s the thing I [00:21:40] miss the most. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: But the people can be also the [00:21:45] downside for many other dentists. So people patients, [00:21:50] let’s call it the right way. Yeah. Uh, can be, uh, the reason [00:21:55] why a lot of dentists leave dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: Of course, of course. I mean, because because. [00:22:00]

Giovanni Martino: They don’t have that soft skill.

Payman Langroudi: And also people are kind of in the way sometimes in industry, when you’re [00:22:05] a dentist, you were turning up every day. You want to get on with the work that, you know, it’s the teeth. And suddenly [00:22:10] people are in the way of that. Yeah. But you’re right. You’re right. People who don’t have the skills and, you know, you get some people [00:22:15] who have not the best dentists in the world, but they never get [00:22:20] sued. Never.

Giovanni Martino: Never.

Payman Langroudi: Or you met them? Some people technically brilliant [00:22:25] and yet get sued all the time.

Giovanni Martino: Complaining patients.

Payman Langroudi: And that’s. [00:22:30] That’s the exact thing that you’re talking about, you know?

Giovanni Martino: Um, do you know the Woody Allen movie? Which one? [00:22:35] Um. Whatever works. I don’t know. No, [00:22:40] it’s actually one of the one of least success. Oh, really? Uh, the [00:22:45] point is, whatever works, whatever is the balance of your [00:22:50] dentistry, you cannot reach [00:22:55] the soup. I mean, like, you can be the best in something [00:23:00] vertical. Well, we were speaking about verticality of the field. I’m [00:23:05] doing dental implant and doing implant only. Or composite bonding and doing composite bonding [00:23:10] only. If you start from today, in ten years, you’ll be the best. But [00:23:15] you’re missing out. You’re missing out. Something else that [00:23:20] is speaking with the patients about periodontitis. [00:23:25] And the reason why they got the periodontitis. Because they [00:23:30] stopped smoking for, like, whatever. I mean, like, there is a lot of [00:23:35] things that is a huge field of dentistry. It really.

Payman Langroudi: Is. Which [00:23:40] bit of it do you love the most?

Giovanni Martino: Oh, well, the one that I can do without [00:23:45] with rubber dam. Oh, I. Because first of all, patients don’t talk with [00:23:50] that.

Payman Langroudi: Having said everything you just said.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. No, [00:23:55] but.

Payman Langroudi: Once you start, you don’t want to talk anymore.

Giovanni Martino: Finally, I finished first. [00:24:00] Finished talking with them? No. I’m joking, I’m joking.

Payman Langroudi: But you were into the biomimetic. [00:24:05] Kind of. Oh, yeah?

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Pascal man is my father. Oh, metaphorically. [00:24:10] Of course. Yes. Um, also some a guy that is called, [00:24:15] uh, Marco Veneziani. Uh, a little tip to the [00:24:20] dentists in general. If you don’t find a course that suits for [00:24:25] you, but you think that you want to know a little bit more instead [00:24:30] of wasting money to a course by a book. Uh, the one that we used [00:24:35] to do at university. I still do it. I still buy books. For example, [00:24:40] I bought the book from Pascal Magni, and I learned much more from there. [00:24:45] Uh, that for a course.

Payman Langroudi: Interestingly to say. Yeah, because a book, even the [00:24:50] most expensive book is £300.

Giovanni Martino: Exactly. And Steve is yours forever. [00:24:55] Yeah, if you keep it.

Payman Langroudi: Of course, a lot of information in that book there.

Giovanni Martino: Is the there are [00:25:00] some I call the Bibles, for example, the Pascal one or the one for [00:25:05] endodontic Retreatment Castellucci. They are Bibles [00:25:10] for what we do. Of course. Don’t offence to Jesus. Right.

Payman Langroudi: We’ll [00:25:15] get to that. We’ll get to that. We’ll get to that. Oh, my gosh. [00:25:20]

Giovanni Martino: That conversation is getting fun.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got an Italian in front of me. I’ve got to [00:25:25] bring up Jesus. Jesus. Tell me, when was [00:25:30] it when you first decided you want to look at dentistry?

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Very good question. [00:25:35] So, um, where.

Payman Langroudi: In where in Italy were you living?

Giovanni Martino: I am [00:25:40] from Caserta. Which is.

Payman Langroudi: Where?

Giovanni Martino: Which is, uh. Imagine [00:25:45] Vasile. Yeah. That did the wrong choice in life.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:25:50]

Giovanni Martino: Uh, that’s Caserta, so [00:25:55] I’m just giving you a bit, a bit more information about it. So, [00:26:00] um, Caserta is a city half an hour from Naples. Like Versailles is from [00:26:05] Paris. Um, where there is a huge royal palace like very [00:26:10] similar to the Versailles one actually in how. But it’s not as famous as because [00:26:15] first of all, Naples is not the capital of Italy. But that’s another matter. Uh, but [00:26:20] uh, but because it’s a very difficult area nowadays, [00:26:25] um, better lately, like in the last few years. [00:26:30] But when I grew up there, it was a difficult area.

Payman Langroudi: In terms of crime.

Giovanni Martino: In terms [00:26:35] of crimes, in terms of, uh, as a kid. [00:26:40] Um, you cannot really, really see that, but it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Just normal for you.

Giovanni Martino: Right? [00:26:45] Yes. Because, for example, I remember exactly that as a kid. I was playing [00:26:50] with, uh, with, uh, nephew [00:26:55] of a boss, uh, and, [00:27:00] uh, they were untouchable. Untouchable in a way that they had to play [00:27:05] all the time. They if you were like, you know, kids fight all the time. [00:27:10] They fight like if. Yeah, you could not. They were. But [00:27:15] at the end of the day, they are amazing guys. One is a lawyer, one is [00:27:20] uh, is and they were the richest around us [00:27:25] and. Yeah. And I grew up in that kind of environment [00:27:30] where you need to know who you are talking to. Otherwise [00:27:35] you may risk something. And that’s probably the reason.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:27:40] know, culturally, Italy. I mean, I used to try and sell my [00:27:45] toothpaste in Italy at one point, and somehow the [00:27:50] cost space, there were more mouths to feed in the middle. Yeah, yeah. Somehow [00:27:55] it was like, yeah, localised distribution.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, I get what you mean.

Payman Langroudi: And then the question of [00:28:00] like, you know, every country’s got the things that make it amazing. Yeah. And [00:28:05] the things that hold it back. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes it could. Italy is the kind of country that even if you have [00:28:10] 100 things that hold it back, the 3 or 4 things that make it amazing are worth it. You [00:28:15] know, like it’s one of those if.

Giovanni Martino: You think about as an analogy, as metaphorically, [00:28:20] dentistry. Yeah. We have really nice excellences down there in Italy. [00:28:25] Yeah. People that change the field. Yeah, yeah. But we have a lot of [00:28:30] people that are not dentists that work as a dentist. [00:28:35] Bam!

Payman Langroudi: Both the high end and the bottom end. Exactly. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: And [00:28:40] for a person like me, for a kid like me down there. Uh, [00:28:45] yeah, I was struggling there. Uh, back to the question. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: When did you first think of becoming [00:28:50] a dentist?

Giovanni Martino: So, yes. Um, when I was like 17 or 18, [00:28:55] I was not giving a shit about dentistry. Of course, I was doing music [00:29:00] with my best friend Francesco that I say hello to him. That is only listening [00:29:05] to Dental podcast. Leaders is not a dentist. I’m joking. So no, [00:29:10] I’m joking. But I was doing music with him, I was producing, I was DJing [00:29:15] with him and electronic. Yeah. House music. Yeah. House. The house, the house. [00:29:20] Uh, and with the discrete success actually. So we were under [00:29:25] labels, we were sponsoring, we were going around playing gigs. Um, [00:29:30] but then I was, I was making some [00:29:35] money, but I was, I was see that the thing was, uh, you had [00:29:40] to grind a lot to make it happen. Uh, so, in fact, [00:29:45] in some point happened some events that made me think, I [00:29:50] love music, but it need to be a hobby for me. It cannot be professional. Otherwise I’m going [00:29:55] to hate it. And that’s the reason why I kept as a aside. I [00:30:00] do music all the time, but not as a professional, um, [00:30:05] paraprofessional. Someone told me that I am a paraprofessional music maker. All [00:30:10] right. Uh, so at the time, I was doing music all the time, [00:30:15] and my family said, what do you want to do? And, um. [00:30:20]

Payman Langroudi: Are your parents medical at all?

Giovanni Martino: No, not at all. Okay. Give a little bit [00:30:25] of background just for the people that is listening to the podcast to [00:30:30] close it right now. I grew up in a family of four sisters. My my [00:30:35] father died when I was one year and a half. Never met him. Oh, wow. Yeah. And, [00:30:40] uh, my mother grows up. Everybody has a degree, so I don’t know how [00:30:45] she did it. I am a daddy myself now. I didn’t told you. Uh, and I’m [00:30:50] struggling so much. It’s tough. Uh, my my mother. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Alone [00:30:55] with the.

Giovanni Martino: Youngest, I. I was the youngest until I was 18 years old. [00:31:00] Then my mother got married again and she did another sister of [00:31:05] mine, and now she lives with my mother. Uh, everybody else [00:31:10] is out. All right. And do you.

Payman Langroudi: Remember it being a struggle for your mother? Um. [00:31:15] Or was it just normal for you? I guess also, in Italy, the family structure is more.

Giovanni Martino: It’s [00:31:20] more compact, more cohesive. The, uh, the the struggle [00:31:25] for my mother was, uh, I think when summer [00:31:30] stuff like that. Summer holidays. Yeah. Uh, I had to go with [00:31:35] my grandmother because she was working. Because she was working.

Payman Langroudi: Just to support. She’s a she’s [00:31:40] a teacher.

Giovanni Martino: She used to be actually, uh, because he’s he’s, um, [00:31:45] he’s, uh. Um, how can I say not graduated? She’s, [00:31:50] um, in pension. Uh, she used to be a nursery teacher. So [00:31:55] imagine kids at school and kids at home. Stressful. Yeah, it’s very stressful. [00:32:00] Uh, so I don’t know how she managed. She. She made us study, [00:32:05] as. I mean, everybody, we are quite successful as family, [00:32:10] and, um. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So. Teeth. Yes. Did any of you sisters [00:32:15] go into teeth or. No. No no no.

Giovanni Martino: No. Only me.

Payman Langroudi: Only, uh.

Giovanni Martino: Because for me, I was good [00:32:20] in biology. Chemistry at school. Uh, but not very good in math. I was very [00:32:25] interested in physics. Um, so I spoke to myself, saying what [00:32:30] I want to do. I want to do something related to that. But I don’t want to do math or [00:32:35] like, physics or chemistry, something that doesn’t lead you to anything. I wanted to do something practical [00:32:40] because I am a more pragmatic person, so I wanted to do medicine. I [00:32:45] try to get into medicine, I try to get into dentistry, and I [00:32:50] try to get into that. Actually, I, I succeed to get [00:32:55] into vet veterinary school the first year that I tried because the the [00:33:00] tests down in Italy is completely different from here. Um, so in [00:33:05] fact, from a few sliding doors I was speaking with, uh, someone [00:33:10] else in another podcast called The Veterinary Vet Leaders. [00:33:15] Uh, but not Dental Leaders [00:33:20] podcast. Best post, best podcast in Camden. I will say, [00:33:25] and and consequentially London. Um, back [00:33:30] to teeth. Uh, so I tried.

Payman Langroudi: You got into vet [00:33:35] school. Why didn’t you go?

Giovanni Martino: I didn’t say anything to anybody. Oh.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t.

Giovanni Martino: I received [00:33:40] I received the email and my mother and my father in law at the time, they [00:33:45] were pushing to to for dentistry. And we had also a plan B, which was [00:33:50] if you don’t get to the to the to you. If you don’t [00:33:55] pass the tests, you go to Spain for one year and then [00:34:00] you try the next year. So with a bit of knowledge of of Dental and see if [00:34:05] you like as well, because Italy.

Payman Langroudi: Was more competitive than Spain at the time.

Giovanni Martino: Imagine that. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. [00:34:10] Imagine that when I get the, the the place I, I was very lucky [00:34:15] anyway. I am a very lucky person overall. But I was very [00:34:20] lucky. Imagine that in my classroom there were 17 people [00:34:25] in total. The full class of dentistry of my year were 17 [00:34:30] people. Wow. And the competition was about thousands of people. That was trying the test. [00:34:35] Wow. So the reason why I’m I’m very lucky person that is that [00:34:40] next year I tried, uh, in L’Aquila, which [00:34:45] is a city hit by a earthquake Strongly in 2009, [00:34:50] and I tried it in 2012. And still the university [00:34:55] was struggling to find people to go there to the university. So they open a [00:35:00] few places more. And so I get the place the day after. [00:35:05] And the difference between the exam [00:35:10] in Spain examined in Italy was totally different. Probably Spain is more similar to [00:35:15] here than how is it in Italy? The Spain exams were [00:35:20] multiple choice questions. Everything was written in [00:35:25] two weeks apart. All the exams in Italy, you know, in Italy [00:35:30] you have multiple sessions and the interview is face to face oral. [00:35:35] So it’s super fun because the studying is totally different. [00:35:40] You need to practice how to speak the subject [00:35:45] and how to explain to someone one the subject. Uh, [00:35:50] rather than understand memorising information into your head, they probably never [00:35:55] verbalise it. Um, so I love that. In fact, I succeed. [00:36:00] Quite. I was not a great student in Spain. In Italy, I succeed [00:36:05] quite badly. Never been a great student. Anyway, in school I didn’t give a fuck. [00:36:10] But. But probably because I was. I was.

Payman Langroudi: In Madrid. By yourself?

Giovanni Martino: By [00:36:15] myself? Oh my gosh, that must.

Payman Langroudi: Have been fun.

Giovanni Martino: That was very fun. It was traumatic.

Payman Langroudi: Scary [00:36:20] as well. Right?

Giovanni Martino: Um, I wanted to go out anyway, so I wanted to be, like, [00:36:25] out.

Payman Langroudi: From a good town for a young man, right?

Giovanni Martino: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. Your. You [00:36:30] want to persuade your son to go somewhere else for university?

Payman Langroudi: Leave London. [00:36:35]

Giovanni Martino: Leave London? Yeah. Somewhere else. Yeah. Do it, do it. Son of Payman.

Payman Langroudi: I’ll [00:36:40] play this back to you. Because you know what? When you’re 17, you think you know it all. [00:36:45]

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, but first of all, you can be the person that you want because nobody [00:36:50] knows you. Yeah. So you’re right.

Payman Langroudi: Invent yourself. Right.

Giovanni Martino: You reinvent yourself and you [00:36:55] can be your best, the best person that you want there. Of course, [00:37:00] then the best personality that you have is going out. For example, I was doing DJing in Madrid [00:37:05] and then I did DJing as well. I deejayed as well in, in laquila in back [00:37:10] in the, in the I was, I was, I was DJing all the time because it was my job, I was [00:37:15] making money from it. And uh, yeah, I mean, my, my [00:37:20] parents were giving me money, but not they could not afford a lot of money. [00:37:25] Uh, so I was making some money DJing. But the life of a DJ [00:37:30] is is is.

Payman Langroudi: Horrible, isn’t the life isn’t the the glamorous side of being [00:37:35] a DJ is the glamorous side of being a DJ the way you would think are all the girls trying to get with you? And [00:37:40] like, that was the.

Giovanni Martino: First reason why I get into deejaying, [00:37:45] I will say. But does it lose.

Payman Langroudi: Its specialness [00:37:50] when you’re working at, you know, doing so many? No.

Giovanni Martino: Imagine that. Uh, first of all, [00:37:55] you need to you need to prepare your DJ set all the time. You need to be [00:38:00] fresh all the time. You cannot repeat your DJ set in particular because DJ listened [00:38:05] to you. And if I listen to the same DJ set of DJ that [00:38:10] I like happened the big DJs at big DJs, I got upset. [00:38:15] So.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re constantly having to listen to new music to find all the good stuff, [00:38:20] right?

Giovanni Martino: You need to you need to put new music in your wardrobe [00:38:25] all the time.

Payman Langroudi: So that takes hours in itself.

Giovanni Martino: Exactly. In the day. Plus, [00:38:30] you don’t stop playing before 11. [00:38:35] If you’re lucky, you’re lucky. Yeah. Or, like, late in the day. Yeah. And, uh. And [00:38:40] Is a full on mind job. You [00:38:45] need to be super concentrated while you are DJing. If you didn’t sleep enough. [00:38:50]

Payman Langroudi: You mess it up.

Giovanni Martino: No, it’s just struggling. Or you need to [00:38:55] use some strong coffees or something else or [00:39:00] you’re struggling. So I was DJing, but I was deejaying operative. I was digging [00:39:05] from 6 to 10 and then home. That’s it. Uh huh. Uh, [00:39:10] and then I in fact, I specialise in doing a parody music for a parody. In [00:39:15] fact, I then I learned how to [00:39:20] be a clinical director, not clinical artistic [00:39:25] director. Sorry. Clinical director was was another month. Was [00:39:30] dentist, you know, artistic director. In fact, I’ve done producing and artistic direction [00:39:35] for a lot of projects down in Italy. Uh, and [00:39:40] this might and that is, this is my dream job. Because what I was doing, I was selecting the [00:39:45] music for eight hours, and of course, I was not doing [00:39:50] it for eight hours long. There were other DJs doing it for like, together, [00:39:55] but the music was the thing was, I’m doing this now. [00:40:00] Then I’m going to do this in 3 in 3 hours time that the BPM is going [00:40:05] to be in that way, and the music that needs to lead in that kind. [00:40:10] Yeah, yeah. And you can do. Yeah, it’s very creative and you can do [00:40:15] it for and you can apply it to the study clubs that we were speaking about. [00:40:20] I learned that thing there. I learned how to organise an event from the beginning [00:40:25] to the end there. In fact, you need to start [00:40:30] at the beginning. Start these people getting drunk. Yeah. And [00:40:35] the second bit people, the speakers just start speaking if he’s not already [00:40:40] too drunk and etc. and then it needs to be fun. The study club needs to be fun. [00:40:45] The people need to enjoy. Otherwise it’s boring. Dentistry is boring. [00:40:50] Then we need to make it glamorous. You’re making glamorous very much. Actually, thank you very much. And [00:40:55] your voice is amazing through the podcast. Can [00:41:00] I ask you some questions? Sure. How do you make. How do you end up doing podcasts? [00:41:05] I mean, what was the the reason why you started doing podcasts.

Payman Langroudi: To start with? I [00:41:10] was listening to a lot of podcasts, and then there was a sort of there was definitely a commercial [00:41:15] reason to do it. Of course, that was that was the first reason we said we [00:41:20] decided to go down a content approach on marketing. Very good. Um, and, [00:41:25] you know, the commercial side of this is really irrelevant, of course.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. [00:41:30]

Payman Langroudi: But the idea was that we were going to pixel each of the listeners and then [00:41:35] serve adverts to that pixel and we do that. Yeah. The, the [00:41:40] fact that I’m, you know, constantly talking about enlightened in my life means it comes up. Yeah. [00:41:45] And, but now it’s turned into like a hobby. And [00:41:50] I don’t have many hobbies. I mean, like you do. Right. You’ve got music. You’ve got you’ve got.

Giovanni Martino: Now, my [00:41:55] my hobby is to be with my family now. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So what is the hobby? Right. It’s something [00:42:00] you’re doing for enjoyment. Yeah. Something you’re trying to get better at? [00:42:05] Yeah. Yeah. And so I never had anything like that, you know? So for me, this [00:42:10] is the closest thing I’ve got to a hobby now. Um, so I don’t even look at the number of listens [00:42:15] or anything anymore. Yeah. No, no, not interested in that anymore.

Giovanni Martino: But you came up with a lot of amazing [00:42:20] stories. Probably. Yeah. You you only the the the fact [00:42:25] that someone is telling his stories in the podcast is the price of it.

Payman Langroudi: They’re important stories, [00:42:30] you know, that we’ve had two of our guests have passed away. Oh, really? Three of our guests [00:42:35] have passed away. And, you know, I’m really happy that we’ve got those stories. [00:42:40] Of course, you know.

Giovanni Martino: Of course.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s kind of like the the life story that you’re [00:42:45] telling me. Your dad passed away when you were one. Yeah, I mean, I [00:42:50] when you said it, I remembered I’d read it on your thing, but, you know, it wasn’t something I knew about you.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:55] I’m. I never met my father. Yeah. That’s something that, uh. That’s.

Payman Langroudi: How does [00:43:00] that impact your relationship with your kid? Like, are you thinking about him now all the time?

Giovanni Martino: Um, [00:43:05] then, of course, I’ve done a lot of therapy, uh, through [00:43:10] the years. I started during the pandemic because. Exactly. I was not [00:43:15] a good person down there then. Oh, my gosh, don’t let me go down there in the cave [00:43:20] in the in that cave of paranoia during the pandemic was horrible. [00:43:25] But I started doing therapy then and I realised that, um, knowing [00:43:30] only my mother. Being only with my mother, I [00:43:35] get a lot of non-natural behaviour for me because [00:43:40] I was. I’m assuming that I am very similar to my father, [00:43:45] uh, and acknowledging it [00:43:50] or just want to be in that way. I want to be [00:43:55] in that way. Uh, I feel that I am a little [00:44:00] bit my father. So with my son, I just need to. To [00:44:05] be who I am. Luckily enough.

Payman Langroudi: How old is.

Giovanni Martino: He? How old? My. [00:44:10] My son. Yeah. Six months. Oh, he’s. Yeah, I, [00:44:15] I cut a few days from practising. And this is the best, best [00:44:20] time of my life. I’m very happy to spend time with him and [00:44:25] my my partner. Because apart from that, is moving [00:44:30] so fast. It’s growing so fast that I know that it’s going away very, very [00:44:35] soon. Uh, but then, um, I want to be super present [00:44:40] for him a little bit as my father, but not was [00:44:45] not his fault was not present for me. Yeah. Uh, but, [00:44:50] yeah, I think it’s.

Payman Langroudi: A sad thing. When my uncle passed [00:44:55] away. When his daughter was two. Mm. And [00:45:00] I remembered how much he loved her. Like he loved, I think. [00:45:05] I think that he loved this girl so much. And now my cousin, he [00:45:10] she doesn’t remember her. Doesn’t remember anything about him. Doesn’t. She was two. Yeah. And it always [00:45:15] made me sad because I always remember how much he loved her. Yeah. And and the fact that he didn’t recognise [00:45:20] her. But this this connection. Now that you’re thinking about your dad, when you’re when you’re talking [00:45:25] to your kid or when you’re looking after your kid, it’s very interesting.

Giovanni Martino: I’m telling you one story. Um, [00:45:30] my mother, I don’t think, never [00:45:35] went over the. Got over it. Go over the the loss [00:45:40] of her husband. Of course. And the reason why I’m telling you [00:45:45] is because I remember doing therapy, uh, that I was a kid, [00:45:50] and I came a knowledge about the word widow, I didn’t know. What does it mean? What? [00:45:55] What did I heard somewhere, and I asked my mother. What does it mean? Widow? [00:46:00] And she reacted very badly. She started shouting at me. [00:46:05] Of course. Then I say, yeah, I mean like then she reacted very badly. [00:46:10] Back to the to the story that I was telling you. Now, [00:46:15] the reason why I think that my I am more similar to my father than to my mother, [00:46:20] and this is the reason why of the struggle that I go through my life. My [00:46:25] mother, my father, my heritage from my father, kind [00:46:30] of 200 vinyl records and [00:46:35] I play, I do DJing, yes, with digital, but [00:46:40] mainly with vinyl records. Oh, really? And he he was super [00:46:45] passionate into music. Wow. And I, I knew because [00:46:50] I knew that there was these things at home that was from him on the bookshelf [00:46:55] somewhere. Yes. And of course. But only when I started DJing [00:47:00] and producing filtered, I felt it. Yeah. And I felt [00:47:05] the passion. The passion. When you put a vinyl record [00:47:10] on and you listen to it and you go through from the beginning to the end, [00:47:15] it’s lovely. It’s a lovely thing that you do [00:47:20] with the air, because music is a vibrating, Rating. All right. Um, [00:47:25] and, uh, it’s. Yeah, it’s, uh, and I, I recently felt [00:47:30] it again because I bring all the vinyl records at home, and I have, like a nice [00:47:35] shelf of all the vinyls that I go through. I still buy vinyls. I mean, like, [00:47:40] I’m that kind of person.

Payman Langroudi: It’s kind of in now, isn’t it? To be like vinyls [00:47:45] come back big time, isn’t it?

Giovanni Martino: They’re very expensive now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about your first feeling when [00:47:50] you got to the UK. Had you been before? Yeah. For holidays or.

Giovanni Martino: Let’s [00:47:55] say in Italy it’s very common. Also in all Europe it’s very common [00:48:00] coming to UK to learn English because a school is not very like you don’t go in depth [00:48:05] in English. I, I came to UK uh, to do that as [00:48:10] a kid, as a 15 years old. Uh, the full summer learning English [00:48:15] was was shocking for me because I loved the UK. I [00:48:20] at that time I loved UK, I was.

Payman Langroudi: Whereabouts was that?

Giovanni Martino: Don’t laugh if [00:48:25] I tell you. Lincoln.

Payman Langroudi: Lincoln.

Giovanni Martino: Up north. I loved that [00:48:30] I was 15, and, uh. But nothing was happening there. [00:48:35] Uh huh. Uh, then I came to Bristol and then. And I [00:48:40] loved it even more.

Payman Langroudi: Great city man.

Giovanni Martino: I love it.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a great city.

Giovanni Martino: I love it, I [00:48:45] love it in a lot of things happening there [00:48:50] still as a small city. I’m in London today, and I love London, [00:48:55] don’t get me wrong. Cartman. Cartman is my favourite place in the world. But [00:49:00] it’s too much. It’s too much for me. Uh, I am from Caserta, so it’s a small [00:49:05] city. Bristol is just bigger.

Payman Langroudi: Feels right to you?

Giovanni Martino: Yes, it feels right [00:49:10] for me.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a different thing that that size city. There’s some things about it that. [00:49:15] That you don’t even think about when you live in a this size city. Because I went to [00:49:20] Cardiff. Yeah. For university?

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And there, you know, you’re constantly [00:49:25] bumping into people, you know, in the street.

Giovanni Martino: But ultimately still you do it. I do [00:49:30] because I am. Yeah. I’m not going I know a lot of. No I cannot. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You bump into [00:49:35] people. That’s. Yeah. Even let’s talk about total stranger. You see a total stranger. Yeah. You see [00:49:40] them again? Yeah. Somewhere along the line. Yeah. That’s. Yeah. That’s a different dynamic. Yeah. Because [00:49:45] if you know that that’s possible, then people treat each other differently. [00:49:50] Yeah. Than if, you know it’s the opposite. I’m never going to see this person ever again. Yeah. If you if you [00:49:55] walk down Oxford Street right now, you will never see these people ever again. Yeah. You could you could act [00:50:00] whichever way you want and you will never see. Now, that said, I don’t think humanity’s, like, so selfish. [00:50:05] You know, like, we do things that are illogical in a way. [00:50:10]

Giovanni Martino: I believe in the humanity. Yeah. Me too. Yeah, I believe that the the [00:50:15] most Important, um, resource [00:50:20] is people that works [00:50:25] with us, that stay with us. And uh, and they are they [00:50:30] can be. Yeah. Apart from the fact that you can meet patients as well in Bristol. And [00:50:35] that’s lovely because they say hello to you and, uh, that’s lovely. Uh, but [00:50:40] uh, but yeah, all the people that you work around, I love Bristol specifically.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:50:45] love the architecture. I love the hills and things. I’m sure you guys get sick of that. Yeah. No, [00:50:50] no, no, no, I always.

Giovanni Martino: Work with my my son around.

Payman Langroudi: Do you have an electric [00:50:55] bicycle? Not yet. I thought I would definitely get an electric bicycle if I was in Bristol. Yeah. [00:51:00]

Giovanni Martino: Or Vesper.

Payman Langroudi: There’s good restaurants, good restaurants for the size town. It’s [00:51:05] got a lot of good going for it. There is a.

Giovanni Martino: Lot of events, musical events. Yeah, people are cool.

Payman Langroudi: People [00:51:10] are cool. Yeah. That’s the other thing. Yeah. Hence the events and exhibitions.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:15] And I liked.

Payman Langroudi: It. Isn’t Banksy from Bristol? It is.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, he is, he is. I [00:51:20] say it is because probably it’s not human, but. Yeah, but. But [00:51:25] yeah, he is full of Banksy’s down there.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me, when you finally came as a dentist to Bristol, [00:51:30] what was the question?

Giovanni Martino: Because what was the.

Payman Langroudi: What was the sort of the, the best [00:51:35] thing and the worst thing about moving to Bristol from.

Giovanni Martino: Italy. I didn’t. Okay. [00:51:40] First thing that I want to say, I didn’t start working as [00:51:45] a dentist in Bristol.

Payman Langroudi: Dental nurse.

Giovanni Martino: And yeah, that was in Bristol. But as a [00:51:50] dentist, my first job was in Manchester. Oh, okay.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. That’s beautiful.

Giovanni Martino: Too. That’s beautiful. [00:51:55] But during the pandemic.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, was it during the pandemic?

Giovanni Martino: There was. I started working in 2019. [00:52:00] Middle 2019 was June 2019. And I [00:52:05] would say eight months after pandemic hit, I just put [00:52:10] the head inside the the Dentistry. And to be honest [00:52:15] with you, I was not enjoying it anyway. I didn’t like the NHS working, but if [00:52:20] my my partner said that I don’t have to speak about that because I can be offensive. [00:52:25] No, no. Some people can take it wrongly. Reason [00:52:30] why I got upset about it?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Talk about it. Look, the whole point of this is talking about. Yes, true. [00:52:35]

Giovanni Martino: The reason why I’m getting upset is because the NHS has [00:52:40] a great potential. But it’s an unexpressed. Yeah. In dentistry, [00:52:45] it’s true, because it’s where I learned treatment planning, and [00:52:50] I. A lot of people were putting pressure on me. Patients [00:52:55] manager and I was I was mentee. So the mentor. Et cetera. Et cetera. [00:53:00] Yeah. Uh, and I had the strength of not compromising my [00:53:05] dentistry. Aha. What I mean is, I was not the as good as [00:53:10] today, but I was putting the rabbit down.

Payman Langroudi: You were doing things right?

Giovanni Martino: Yes, [00:53:15] in the right. I was taking pictures. I was taking.

Payman Langroudi: Making no money. Right?

Giovanni Martino: Probably not [00:53:20] as many as my colleague, but who give a fuck about money. At the end of the [00:53:25] day, you need to do. And I’ve never had complaints.

Payman Langroudi: Dentistry is one of the only fields where [00:53:30] the the. The more conscientious you are, the less money you make. [00:53:35] Yeah. And that’s that’s an important point, right? Well, not it’s not necessarily [00:53:40] because you can set it up correctly privately. Right. You can set it up correctly to make loads of money. Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:45] But definitely NHS dentistry. The more conscientious you are, the less money you make. [00:53:50] Correct. And that’s, that’s such a weird like situation. Yeah. [00:53:55] Yes.

Giovanni Martino: Correct. And this is the reason why I. [00:54:00]

Payman Langroudi: It’s broken and you shouldn’t talk about it. Right? Exactly.

Giovanni Martino: I know, but the point is that [00:54:05] I, I, I actually did a contract at the NHS and I hated [00:54:10] it. And then the reception saying, oh, you are losing money. Why? [00:54:15] Because I’m doing white filling instead of a black filling. You could sell it privately, [00:54:20] but in my opinion, as I at the beginning of the conversation, I said today, [00:54:25] I’ve done the best restoration that I have done in my life. How can I [00:54:30] compromise my dentistry? You’re looking at it.

Payman Langroudi: As education instead of earning at that point. And that’s, by the way, [00:54:35] that’s the right. That’s actually the right way to look at it still now. Yeah, it’s still now.

Giovanni Martino: Because it’s a marathon. We [00:54:40] need to work 30 years with patience and you need to deliver your best. Otherwise, [00:54:45] if you think if you are driven by money. Don’t get me wrong. The [00:54:50] motivation can be multiple and can be honourable. But if you are only [00:54:55] driven by money, you are. You cannot be all the time [00:55:00] ethical. Yeah, that’s my constitutional opinion and that’s something that I’m [00:55:05] not going to cut.

Payman Langroudi: You’re in the wrong job if you’re only motivated by money in [00:55:10] dentistry.

Giovanni Martino: But then I told, I mean, we [00:55:15] earn a lot of money compared to the other people, and [00:55:20] we can work less. Yeah. If you work smart and you [00:55:25] are probably making £1,000 more than me, or like, [00:55:30] who else you get, you’re not making a billion [00:55:35] and I am making 1000. Yeah. Or you get. You don’t make a lot of difference. [00:55:40] More. That probably is the one that the the 1000 [00:55:45] more that you make. You risk the I things you risk a lot of things. You risk complaints. [00:55:50] You risk the probably something in some some one mouth [00:55:55] and etc. etc..

Payman Langroudi: But also and also the the definition of being a doctor, [00:56:00] a professional right is is what you’re doing when when no one’s looking. [00:56:05]

Giovanni Martino: Correct.

Payman Langroudi: And in dentistry, no one’s looking. Yeah. The nurse can’t [00:56:10] see what’s going on. The patient definitely doesn’t know what’s going on. Yeah. I mean, and so, you [00:56:15] know, that trust question when you go into a professional who’s got a certificate [00:56:20] on the wall and there’s a thing before his name that says doctor. Yeah. All of that is [00:56:25] saying, listen, when no one’s looking, I’m not gonna betray [00:56:30] that trust. Right.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Very good, very good. I didn’t I never heard of it, but, [00:56:35] uh, I’m going to tell to the patients now. Even [00:56:40] if I take pictures so I can show them.

Payman Langroudi: Best and worst things about [00:56:45] the UK compared to Italy. Um, what was your [00:56:50] initial feeling when you first got there? And now that you’ve been here for five years? [00:56:55] Like, what do you miss the most? And what what do you love the most about the UK?

Giovanni Martino: I miss the most [00:57:00] the seaside mate. Cornwall is beautiful, don’t get me wrong. My Mediterranean [00:57:05] is something else.

Payman Langroudi: The Adriatic?

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. [00:57:10] No, this is not the best. Yeah. Naples? Yeah, exactly. The [00:57:15] Tyrian terrano is called. Uh, that’s what I miss the most. [00:57:20] But you have lovely places as well here, so I can compromise. Uh, best [00:57:25] thing the culture, mate. The car. So even if [00:57:30] we are living in a moment of riots of extreme right and probably geopolitical [00:57:35] instability. Et cetera. Et cetera. I see [00:57:40] a lot of diversity. Yeah, I see a lot of diversity that [00:57:45] is, uh, mixed all together. And this is something that, uh, [00:57:50] is difficult to find, but all everywhere in Manchester. [00:57:55] As in Bristol, as in London, everywhere in the UK is cultural. And this diversity [00:58:00] can only make you grow. Cannot put you down.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:58:05] want to we shouldn’t. We shouldn’t sort of skate over the riot situation without [00:58:10] talking about it. True. From my my view on it. I mean, depending on [00:58:15] when this is going to go out. Right. But right now. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: When is it going to. Going.

Payman Langroudi: Not sure. Two, three weeks let’s say. Okay. [00:58:20] Right now we’ve been through a week of riots in the UK. I came back from holiday and the country was on [00:58:25] fire. Right. Yeah. Um, my initial feeling on it was. It’s such a strange [00:58:30] thing that you’ve got. The Prime Minister was an Indian. Yeah. Yeah. So many of the top [00:58:35] jobs went to to foreigners. That wouldn’t have happened in any other country, you know, necessarily. [00:58:40] I mean, can you imagine in Italy, the the president being an Indian or something, it’s [00:58:45] unlikely that that on one side and on the other side, you’ve got the crowd, [00:58:50] this mob. Right. Who, as you can call them, whatever you want to [00:58:55] call them. But we’ve got to someone has to acknowledge here that This. [00:59:00] There’s a grievance. Yeah, yeah. And what is the grievance? It’s the same grievance [00:59:05] that they voted for. Brexit. Yeah, there’s there’s a part [00:59:10] of society that hasn’t benefited from globalism, [00:59:15] global investment and which all of those things end up in multiculturalism, [00:59:20] um, as well as we need to. One other point that [00:59:25] I would say on this subject is next time we’re going to support a war somewhere. [00:59:30] Understand, these people are running from something. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: Are you for [00:59:35] for from Iran, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So, like, you look at the people coming in on a boat or [00:59:40] whatever. Yeah. Yeah. They’re all Syrians and Afghanis and Iranians. The places [00:59:45] where there’s been wars and and hassles. But I’m confident we’re going to get over [00:59:50] this. What are your views? Are you all.

Giovanni Martino: Right? Um. I am talking [00:59:55] being Italian, by the way.

Payman Langroudi: Italy’s had way [01:00:00] more, way more invented.

Giovanni Martino: Fascism. We invented [01:00:05] in 2019, 1920, 1920. Fascism. And we had [01:00:10] way.

Payman Langroudi: More immigration as well, right? Oh, yeah.

Giovanni Martino: No we don’t. I want to go a little bit [01:00:15] more. Sure, sure. That that that is a wave that [01:00:20] is hitting by the propaganda to people that, uh, [01:00:25] that is easy to influence. Yeah. And because [01:00:30] in the UK, you have a lot of [01:00:35] culture. Uh, that’s a wave that is going to. Is it like [01:00:40] a wave, like in the seaside? A wave that is going to go up and down naturally. [01:00:45] Uh, probably hit because not only there was [01:00:50] the riot people from fascism, extreme right, etc., etc. but it was there was a lot [01:00:55] of people protesting against them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so [01:01:00] that way was heated by that and probably is going to calm down in the next few weeks. [01:01:05]

Payman Langroudi: Weeks, hopefully.

Giovanni Martino: Yes. Yeah. Um, but [01:01:10] what worries me mostly is [01:01:15] at the moment is the the international geopolitical [01:01:20] situation.

Payman Langroudi: This is the reason why.

Giovanni Martino: You are Iranian. [01:01:25] Yeah, yeah. And, um, and I don’t know, [01:01:30] honestly, but I’m scared a little bit. Not for me or [01:01:35] for my family. Uh, not even for you. Uh, but, [01:01:40] uh, that balanced geopolitical balance is good.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got family [01:01:45] in in right now in Beirut who can’t get out.

Giovanni Martino: You can’t. They can’t get out [01:01:50] because.

Payman Langroudi: There there are flights, but there aren’t tickets. I’ve got family in Tehran who want to.

Giovanni Martino: Because [01:01:55] UK government asked them to come or to come or to go somewhere.

Payman Langroudi: Else. There’s [01:02:00] no.

Giovanni Martino: Tickets. There is no.

Payman Langroudi: Tickets. Some of them have British passports. My wife’s family that they have, [01:02:05] they have British passports, but they still can’t get out. Um, I’ve got family in Iran who can’t get out. And I have [01:02:10] friends who have family in Israel who can’t get out. And and so, you [01:02:15] know, we went to we went to a place of thinking all of that was over. Um, until, um, [01:02:20] Ukraine happened and all that. Oh, no. Um, but, you know, we were in this moment of wars [01:02:25] and things aren’t going to happen anymore. It was like a false sense of security about it.

Giovanni Martino: And [01:02:30] that’s linked as well with the with the things that I was going to say that I was [01:02:35] saying to the, to the fact that the propaganda can hit someone that [01:02:40] has not a level of understanding. Um, I [01:02:45] am I’m just I’m just sorry. [01:02:50] Because at the end of the day, the victim of these conflicts [01:02:55] are the people. Like poor people? No, no, no, people [01:03:00] in general. Also that some people that can afford a flight ticket but they cannot take it and they [01:03:05] are obliged to suffer someone else’s decisions. Um, so [01:03:10] I’m more upset about this, that the the NHS. I have a great idea. [01:03:15] Imagine doing a, uh, [01:03:20] a TV show. Bbc TV show as, [01:03:25] um, as MasterChef, something like that. [01:03:30] Or someone that goes, like at the restaurants, like, uh, Hell’s Kitchen. Yeah, [01:03:35] but with dentistry. So, um. [01:03:40] And so you raise the. So imagine that you go to [01:03:45] a dental practice that is not in the right standards. It’s [01:03:50] not as glamorous. This is like struggling to sell things [01:03:55] like treatment because they still are in the old fashioned [01:04:00] dentistry. They are struggling to get over that. Imagine that. Uh [01:04:05] uh, like a TV show composed by all the [01:04:10] people from the UK. Like the singing, dentistry, the singing, dancing. I’m very bad with [01:04:15] names. So the singing dance so raw now that goes there and do the marketing thing [01:04:20] or like the I get it. Yeah. And [01:04:25] they check on the filters not being cleaned discussed. Yeah. This kind of [01:04:30] stuff.

Payman Langroudi: Um, you’re not talking about this TV show being for for the public, are you? Yeah. [01:04:35] Oh, really? Yeah. I don’t think that’s a good idea. Why? For us? [01:04:40] Yeah. Like someone someone in dentistry should make that show for dentistry. But no, I imagine [01:04:45] the public seeing the filter not being clean, but then.

Giovanni Martino: Oh, yeah, I get what [01:04:50] you mean. No, no, no, I get what you mean. But yeah, you.

Payman Langroudi: Know, I think about sometimes, you know, [01:04:55] in NHS practice, sometimes they see 40, 50 patients in a day. By [01:05:00] the way, I’ve heard of.

Giovanni Martino: Dentists per.

Payman Langroudi: Dentists. Yeah, I’ve heard bigger numbers as well. But I just leave them. Yeah, but [01:05:05] 4050. Um, in between each patient, you have to clean up, right? Yeah. So, [01:05:10] I mean, let’s let’s make it the quickest cleanup in the world. Yeah. Two minutes. Yeah, [01:05:15] that’s an 100 minutes of cleanup. Yeah, yeah, [01:05:20] that isn’t being done. Yeah, yeah, is what I’m saying. It’s that [01:05:25] difficult seeing 4050 patients. Yeah. Hello and goodbye is [01:05:30] what you cannot. One minute, two minutes. That’s 100 minutes of hellos and goodbyes.

Giovanni Martino: It’s [01:05:35] impossible to industrialise dentistry. And [01:05:40] this is what the NHS try to do with the system. I’ve done also [01:05:45] two other contracts with the NHS, which was a stabilisation [01:05:50] contract and a per capitation contract. Now, per capitation [01:05:55] contract, if you are not ethical, you just you just steal money. [01:06:00] Stabilisation contract I was getting only [01:06:05] patients emergency from 111 and I was with the [01:06:10] with a patient that was doing what I was going to say. And I was starting [01:06:15] from prevention. I was starting from cleaning. Let’s clean today. If you come back next time [01:06:20] with your teeth cleaned, I can do your feelings. Otherwise let’s clean again. And [01:06:25] I’ve done lovely jobs in that kind of, uh, [01:06:30] in kind of contract. And I improved so much in [01:06:35] treatment planning from A to Z, a mouth [01:06:40] in order to make it stable. And that’s under [01:06:45] smart contract from the NHS. I was, I was getting paid [01:06:50] locum. But yeah, I liked it.

Payman Langroudi: So if you were the Minister of [01:06:55] Health, that’s what you were.

Giovanni Martino: First of all, the TV show. Let’s [01:07:00] do something to make that.

Payman Langroudi: One of the problems is that the percentage [01:07:05] of spend on teeth. Yeah. On from the health budget. Yeah. [01:07:10] Is about 2%. 2.5%. Yeah. And that’s not going up. Yeah. [01:07:15] There’s so many other things to spend. Money, you know, cancer care and elderly care. There’s so many things you need to spend money on. Psychological. [01:07:20] Yeah. Um, care. So the amount of money [01:07:25] is set? Yeah. Now, the question is, is there a better way to spend that money? Yeah. [01:07:30] And for me. Yeah. Have it for the ones who need it the most. Exactly.

Giovanni Martino: Stabilisation [01:07:35] one on one. I’m in pain. I cannot go to the specialist. To the private. Can I [01:07:40] see someone today? Yeah. Yeah. Go there. That was the Stabilisation Corps. It was an [01:07:45] emergency. And then in the best. So, for example, I was [01:07:50] I was seeing someone from jail. So the jail, a [01:07:55] jail, like in the castle, guy was in pain. The. I don’t know [01:08:00] what happened in the hospital of the. I don’t know if there is a hospital in the jail. I don’t think so. I mean, but [01:08:05] where we are in Sweden? No, but yeah, [01:08:10] I don’t know. Anyway. Someone with the police came to [01:08:15] make me do some instruction on this guy. And it was something for this guy. [01:08:20] Helped him and I gave him some antibiotics, for example. And that is [01:08:25] the way that I was most efficient in [01:08:30] the NHS. Because you find the one that, uh, is [01:08:35] in the jail and will never come back to you anymore. [01:08:40] Biting pain with the swollen face, or you find someone that has [01:08:45] a job can, if you speak with them, can be converted as [01:08:50] a private patient. And it’s beneficial for the [01:08:55] the practice as well.

Payman Langroudi: So how many years did you do NHS in siren sister?

Giovanni Martino: Uh, [01:09:00] I was stuck there because it was uh, during [01:09:05] the time, uh, for three years. So three.

Payman Langroudi: Years. Right.

Giovanni Martino: And in some point I [01:09:10] was doing, uh, private in somewhere else and NHS in somewhere in there. [01:09:15] Uh, and the reason why I didn’t want to mix up is because I hate [01:09:20] saying to the patients, as we were saying, we were [01:09:25] talking before, I’m doing a less glamorous job if you don’t pay me, but [01:09:30] if you pay me, I’m doing a better job or like higher standard job for me, [01:09:35] there’s no no, no, there is no, not. There is not in my constitutional [01:09:40] makeup. Makeup. In part because I swear. Do [01:09:45] you swear here to I swear like swear. Yeah. To [01:09:50] hypocrites. No. The when you when you say I swear [01:09:55] that I’m going to be ethical.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, like the Hippocratic.

Giovanni Martino: Hippocratic oath is [01:10:00] swearing oath.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Swear an oath. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant swear. [01:10:05] Like.

Giovanni Martino: No no no no no no no, you don’t swear, professor.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re saying. You’re [01:10:10] saying that your oath tells you you can’t do that? No.

Giovanni Martino: And because I need to deliver [01:10:15] the best as, as any time I can have a down day. A day that I’m not, like, [01:10:20] performing. Great. But I need to deliver the best. No, I [01:10:25] for me, for me, I get it.

Payman Langroudi: I get it, I get it, of course I get it. But, um, [01:10:30] that.

Giovanni Martino: I can of course my knowledge.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know what I decided? I stopped dentistry [01:10:35] for five years, and then. Then I went back because my wife got pregnant and [01:10:40] I took over her patience. And when I went back, because I’d been out [01:10:45] of it for five years, I said, look, I’m only going to do the things that I know I can do very [01:10:50] well, and everything else I’m going to refer you to. And guess what, man? I was referring [01:10:55] everything exactly. But there’s always someone who can do it better than me, [01:11:00] right?

Giovanni Martino: Yes, but. But there is also.

Payman Langroudi: I know I [01:11:05] don’t like the idea we talked about this with, uh, you know, Andy Moore. We just [01:11:10] put out that episode. Yeah. The Swiss implant. Yes, yes. And the Iranian implant. Right. [01:11:15] I don’t like it. Yeah. But but there is some reality in, in, you know, [01:11:20] you can do things to a basic standard or you can do it to a higher standard. [01:11:25] It’s possible.

Giovanni Martino: But there is a there is also. So you [01:11:30] need to charge as well what is in the standard of [01:11:35] your practice. Okay. So if I do an endo [01:11:40] and I charge x okay. Then if you want [01:11:45] you can get it from Cristiano Ronaldo vendo. But which [01:11:50] is Massimo by the way. Yeah. Ciao, Massimo. Um, uh, and [01:11:55] this is going to charge x per five for x. Yes. Yeah. Uh, [01:12:00] the patients say look, I trust you. Do your [01:12:05] best. And I am going to deliver a high standard that you can the [01:12:10] high standard because I’ve trained. I had a lot more than doing the courses. Do you know what? Apart [01:12:15] from the books, uh, shadowing is I. I think [01:12:20] I am a very lucky person. As I said before, I am thanking [01:12:25] the God. Each kind of God.

Payman Langroudi: Who did you shadow? [01:12:30]

Giovanni Martino: I shadow everybody I could, eye shadow. Massimo Alfonso. Recently [01:12:35] I shadowed Roddy Thomas. Yeah, apart [01:12:40] from that, he’s a super talented person. I mean, like, [01:12:45] and as Cristiano Ronaldo, that talent doesn’t come for free. You need to train [01:12:50] badly. But what I loved him, like what [01:12:55] I loved, I learned he was. That is a super charming [01:13:00] guy that makes you feel so good while you are. While he’s delivering. [01:13:05] What he’s doing is very calm and [01:13:10] very calm and very, uh. And that’s something that as an experience [01:13:15] from a patient, you love it. Yeah. Apart from [01:13:20] the fact that he’s very good in what he does, and that’s the verticality [01:13:25] that we were speaking about. If you do composite veneer for and also [01:13:30] only composite veneer and porcelain veneer [01:13:35] for ten years. You’re going to become the best. But what [01:13:40] I learned, of course, the tips that you can learn from a course, but better [01:13:45] if you shadow. If you see someone working. Because what you learn is from [01:13:50] your eyes. Where is the fact that he was treating the patients [01:13:55] as a I am a [01:14:00] cheese gender heterosexual guy, a beautiful woman. I [01:14:05] will I treat I mean I tend to treat beautiful women like [01:14:10] because I’m Italian. I have a soft spot and beautiful woman, but I don’t know where to get out from here. [01:14:15] Please.

Payman Langroudi: Exactly. There was there was this 12 minute section of a podcast [01:14:20] I had to cut out because I knew. I knew from the first moment I said [01:14:25] it that this was wasn’t going in the right direction.

Giovanni Martino: Get me out from here. Get me out from here.

Payman Langroudi: But. [01:14:30] Yeah. How long do you think you have to shadow someone to get the good stuff? [01:14:35] Do you reckon one day is enough? Do you reckon.

Giovanni Martino: As much as you can? As much as you can. If you can one day. [01:14:40] Do one day if you can. Weeks. The weeks.

Payman Langroudi: I think people are open to it as well. Right?

Giovanni Martino: I [01:14:45] think I had someone shadowing me. Yeah. From student. A student [01:14:50] that was coming to the study club. Yeah. And she she was interested in me [01:14:55] in in what I was doing. She came to the dental practice shadow for [01:15:00] a few days, and she said, I loved it, thank you very much. And [01:15:05] I learned x, y, and Z. I mean, like then, for example, I think [01:15:10] that that student that is going to become a, a dentist [01:15:15] in some point is going to be always a friend of mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I shadowed [01:15:20] a guy for that. It was it was actually a very good thing to do. The principal [01:15:25] gave me a job, And he said, part of this job is that for the first three weeks, you [01:15:30] have to shadow the guy that you’re going to replace. Yeah, this the guy I shadowed [01:15:35] here was a brilliant dentist, but I learned more in that [01:15:40] three weeks. Yeah, yeah.

Giovanni Martino: Before shadowing. Shadowing, shadowing. Yeah. [01:15:45] If you can take take one day off a week and go somewhere to shadow.

Payman Langroudi: Great education. [01:15:50]

Giovanni Martino: That’s the best thing that you can do for your career. But yeah, [01:15:55] because you don’t learn only learn the skills.

Payman Langroudi: No, there’s loads of nuance, [01:16:00] man. Loads of nuance.

Giovanni Martino: Exactly. Something that nobody can teach you in any [01:16:05] other way. Better than mentoring is actually shadowing. But [01:16:10] mentoring. You don’t lose money shadowing. You lose money because [01:16:15] you don’t work. If you think about it that way. But it’s an investment. Yeah. And to be honest [01:16:20] with you, for people that I Know that [01:16:25] I can learn. I will also pay. But honestly, I [01:16:30] would love to pay to to to to shadow Depeche. Yeah. [01:16:35] Because yeah I’m done. I’ve done the course twice. Yeah, but [01:16:40] I think that shadowing him is something.

Payman Langroudi: It’s different being in the surgery when he’s doing the thing, [01:16:45] man. For sure.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. So I had I was [01:16:50] very lucky. I was very, very lucky to have the opportunity to shadow these people. [01:16:55]

Payman Langroudi: I’m going to ask you a question now, you might have heard it before if you listen to the podcast before, but [01:17:00] it’s a really unfair question, but I’d just like to ask it in [01:17:05] the end, though. What was your aha moment?

Giovanni Martino: What [01:17:10] do you mean aha, aha.

Payman Langroudi: Like, like when you suddenly something clicked and you understood. Like [01:17:15] what was. What was it. Oh.

Giovanni Martino: Oh, I get that, um, [01:17:20] opening thousands of teeth. Access. [01:17:25] Access. Access. Extracted teeth. Yeah. Getting there and [01:17:30] opening the chamber. Oh.

Payman Langroudi: Extracted teeth.

Giovanni Martino: Extract. And you cannot. You cannot. No. I thought [01:17:35] you.

Payman Langroudi: Meant it was like just doing that. No, no.

Giovanni Martino: No no studying. So that [01:17:40] is where I go to the patient and know exactly where I need to go. [01:17:45] Then, of course, you need to know. You have to have a protocol. For me, what is indispensable [01:17:50] is the ultrasonic. Some people say, well, are you using ultrasonic [01:17:55] for indoor all the time? That’s the most the thing that I mostly use. Reason [01:18:00] to.

Payman Langroudi: Irrigate.

Giovanni Martino: Ultrasonic. No, no, no. To open the shutter.

Payman Langroudi: To open.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, [01:18:05] yeah. Because the ultrasonic [01:18:10] is something that goes in the in the minority [01:18:15] resistencia place of the tooth, which means from Latin because I am [01:18:20] Italian, which means the most fragile part of the tooth. [01:18:25] If you don’t, if you want to be conservative, ultrasonic [01:18:30] give you the access. Very conservative. Oh, so you’re getting.

Payman Langroudi: You get close to the roof. No, no, no.

Giovanni Martino: I open [01:18:35] it.

Payman Langroudi: You open it and then open it out with the ultrasonic. Exactly, exactly. Yes, [01:18:40] yes, yes.

Giovanni Martino: I get into that and then I scale around. Of course you need to. You [01:18:45] need to have first of all tips and don’t take tips. And then you need [01:18:50] to know how to.

Payman Langroudi: I noticed I follow a couple of endodontists here and I noticed the access cavities are getting [01:18:55] so small, man. Yeah. Yeah. So small.

Giovanni Martino: I’m not a huge fan of small. [01:19:00]

Payman Langroudi: I mean, I guess I guess in the world of endo, that’s the the the kudos that they give between [01:19:05] each other, right?

Giovanni Martino: Yes, yes. I small one millimetre, I open one millimetre. You open [01:19:10] one and a half. You are worse.

Payman Langroudi: Because in from my memory of endo [01:19:15] the bigger the better. It was because you you kind of kind of. And I know the reason why they’re [01:19:20] trying to be a conservative. Right? I get it all. I get it.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. But of course, uh, [01:19:25] I’m not a dentist, I use loops. I’m not using [01:19:30] a microscope. Um, and you need to have a [01:19:35] comfortable access from your files and your GP points. And if you’re very [01:19:40] small, without, uh, the right tools. Also, a CT scan is essential [01:19:45] in that case. So you exactly know where to drill from the beginning to find all [01:19:50] the canals.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a brilliant tip to to to take extracted teeth. Where did you get the teeth from? [01:19:55] Just from.

Giovanni Martino: Uh, Delta.

Payman Langroudi: All of Alfonso’s clinics.

Giovanni Martino: Delta. [01:20:00] Delta. Delta is full of extracted teeth. Educational [01:20:05] side also universities was full of extracted teeth. Informally and steal [01:20:10] it. Now in dental. In dentistry. You cannot really do it anymore. But when [01:20:15] you take a tooth out, you need to be in it. But before you could [01:20:20] or you can, you can actually put it in the autoclave. And if [01:20:25] you have alpha number three in in the surgery is a nightmare because [01:20:30] you need to use water. Otherwise it’s smelly badly. And from [01:20:35] for the patient it’s not very nice. But if you have an access to Delta, [01:20:40] uh, or for example, one guy contacted me, [01:20:45] a friend of mine say I’m doing the course of Masimo. Any tip, anything that [01:20:50] I take, take all the thing all the time that you can. Opening teeth, opening [01:20:55] teeth opening.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What about an adhesive?

Giovanni Martino: Adhesive dentistry. [01:21:00]

Payman Langroudi: Aha.

Giovanni Martino: Adhesive dentistry is my favourite thing in the world.

Payman Langroudi: But the aha [01:21:05] moment, the.

Giovanni Martino: Aha moment when you understand how much of the company [01:21:10] to cut for putty can only.

Payman Langroudi: Go on.

Giovanni Martino: Um, so [01:21:15] that’s something that Marco Veneziano’s book is saying. Um, [01:21:20] a the cusp is a kind of a pyramid. Okay. [01:21:25] If is empty underneath or partially emptied with an undercut, [01:21:30] you need to get it strong. So you need to go back to [01:21:35] the shape of a pyramid. And the pyramid is never going to fall down.

Payman Langroudi: Aha.

Giovanni Martino: So [01:21:40] yeah, if you have a pyramid in the cusp, that’s the right moment to play.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:21:45] if it’s if it’s unsupported remove it totally and go get back to a pyramid. I don’t. Is that what [01:21:50] you mean?

Giovanni Martino: No. Imagine a cusp. Yeah. Of a molar.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s the undercut of decay or whatever. [01:21:55] You’ve cleaned it out.

Giovanni Martino: Go down until the base of the pyramid. Oh I [01:22:00] see. Is strong.

Payman Langroudi: I see, I see, I see.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Yeah. I have, [01:22:05] I have been, I have done, I have, um, I [01:22:10] had an intervention from uh, from some [01:22:15] principle, uh, saying, uh, why you, you [01:22:20] use adhesive, uh, prosthodontics rather than full crown. [01:22:25] We actually want that you do full crowns, they last longer and the patient [01:22:30] pay more for that. And in that moment, I say, I [01:22:35] want you to bring me the book and the surgeon and say, study this, and it’s going to change [01:22:40] your life. But, uh, I felt I am not [01:22:45] working with for someone that, uh, disagree [01:22:50] with my, my knowledge, my education, because [01:22:55] what he was speaking was about, uh, I’m, I’m wording [01:23:00] this as a crown, and you need to deliver a crown. Yeah. Once [01:23:05] that you are wording it as a 3D piece of puzzle. Yeah. And [01:23:10] the patient understand even more. If you show them a picture of what is it they understand [01:23:15] even more. And they prefer being conservative rather [01:23:20] than being. But my mantra is be conservative as much as you can. If you have [01:23:25] a root that is decayed before to take it out, do an end. Yeah. [01:23:30] My mantra is that so that you.

Payman Langroudi: Can pull it out with the. [01:23:35]

Giovanni Martino: I also done an extrusion orthodontic extrusion of a root [01:23:40] is one of the of the of the cases that have submitted for dentistry. [01:23:45] It’s fun because if you explain to the patients what you are doing, they accept [01:23:50] it because it’s fun. You be creative, you are being creative. So [01:23:55] of course, um, they need to trust you and [01:24:00] never, never, never you [01:24:05] against me. So your approach never need to be you against me for sure. I’m here to help [01:24:10] you if you want. I can help you in this way. Shall we try? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. For sure. This needs to be the [01:24:15] approach for sure, because I have very, very good friends that are great [01:24:20] clinicals, great dentists, and they have tons of [01:24:25] complaints and they don’t give a fuck about it. They don’t want change the [01:24:30] a comma about what they are doing. They just that’s [01:24:35] my indemnity. Talk to them. I don’t care because I am better than you. [01:24:40] What’s. No you just need to explain a little bit better. Yeah, you need to spend time [01:24:45] with the patients.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a lot of ego in our profession, you know, somehow it comes in [01:24:50] somehow, man. Yeah. Um. And look, there’s loads of people. Did you know Gianfranco [01:24:55] Politano?

Giovanni Martino: No. Who is this person?

Payman Langroudi: Passed away. Passed away recently? Sorry. [01:25:00] Gentle dentist. Really wonderful guy. Like the way he was talking about, um, what [01:25:05] you learned from, uh, Rodri? That gentleness?

Giovanni Martino: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Um, part [01:25:10] of the simulation, uh, group?

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know why I brought him up just because [01:25:15] he’s an Italian. No, unfortunately.

Giovanni Martino: Not all the Italian knows everybody. All the Italians, [01:25:20] unfortunately.

Payman Langroudi: What was the aha moment in ortho? I’m liking how [01:25:25] you’re coming up with them straight away.

Giovanni Martino: Um, once I start [01:25:30] doing my own ortho, because I had a long time working for [01:25:35] under another name for Invisalign. That’s very common. Yeah. And [01:25:40] I was taking all the sheet, but not all the benefits from it. I was not learning. [01:25:45] So once I start. So I was only taking the complaints from the patient without doing [01:25:50] my my prediction. When I started doing my own ortho, I [01:25:55] learned how to plan it in a way and deliver [01:26:00] that to the patients in particular. Because with Without. Nowadays, [01:26:05] you just need to learn to listen to the patients. They are the leading and [01:26:10] then you do whatever they want because we can do the class. We can [01:26:15] deliver class one. Yeah, but the patient doesn’t want the class one. And we are wasting [01:26:20] two years of their time. And they got fatigue. They got like there is a I [01:26:25] do very little amount of fixed braces because it’s not it’s not [01:26:30] that cheaper to justify the hassle and the fact [01:26:35] that it’s not cosmetic. So I do a lot of aligners with [01:26:40] aligners. You need to keep it simple. You need to see the patient. And [01:26:45] this is something that I learned speaking with the patients. Say what do you want this tooth [01:26:50] I want that, show me something. Show me pictures. What do you what do you [01:26:55] have in your mind? Because I’m telling you if I can do it or not. Because if we see [01:27:00] a patient as a book, We fail. And [01:27:05] this is the problem with the specialists. They don’t know the patients that they are treating. They [01:27:10] are actually delivering orthodontists. They are delivering class one. The patient doesn’t give a fuck about [01:27:15] class one. They have they want to have straight teeth.

Payman Langroudi: Your aha. Is that to to involve the patient [01:27:20] in the final. In the pro.

Giovanni Martino: They need they need to approve it. I’m I [01:27:25] am I am a I’m become of course I’m becoming more. [01:27:30] I am what I say all the time to the patients. I am at your service. [01:27:35] What do you want? What? Where do you want to achieve? Let’s see where [01:27:40] if we can achieve to. Then of course there are cases where there are [01:27:45] cases in cases. But you need to speak with the patients to know. My Aha [01:27:50] is starting planning in the way that I want, and the way that I want is [01:27:55] patients driven. Of course, if there is a patio, there [01:28:00] is a nice joke that I can tell. There is two ways of telling this. I was doing [01:28:05] an implant on a patient into an elevator and [01:28:10] it was wrong on many levels. That’s [01:28:15] a joke. But there is a joke that say the truth. [01:28:20] Of course, I cannot do orthodontics on everybody is an elective treatment, but [01:28:25] if there are the right choice, you need to know those conditions. And [01:28:30] then you can you can you can deliver what they want. Probably [01:28:35] they don’t want like back teeth straight. They don’t want to get [01:28:40] over the crossbar. It just want to, you know, or someone they [01:28:45] want to have a nice nicer bite. You can you can you can do it. You can [01:28:50] do better if you speak with them.

Payman Langroudi: So on this pod we like to talk about mistakes. Yeah. Clinical. [01:28:55]

Giovanni Martino: Dentistry. No, I don’t know the other field [01:29:00] of medicine. I hope less, but dentistry is [01:29:05] based on learning from mistakes and some people don’t [01:29:10] take it wrong. They don’t take it very good. Good, because I [01:29:15] have learned more from an online that broke [01:29:20] than from the successful one. Because the successful. [01:29:25] You don’t see it again. Yeah. The one that I took the picture from, I took the scan from. [01:29:30] And I know that there was a contact point that I had to clean a little, cut it a little [01:29:35] bit more or into approximately, or they don’t go in or [01:29:40] I love, for example, for fruit. I rarely do full crowns. Nowadays, [01:29:45] when I do full crowns, I love vertical prep and [01:29:50] a lot of people don’t know and a lot of technicians. I heard the podcast from [01:29:55] a few episodes ago about the technician technicians.

Payman Langroudi: They’re like, no, [01:30:00] they can’t see a line.

Giovanni Martino: Exactly. They don’t know where to start from. But that’s the beauty. [01:30:05] You can start from wherever. Actually, you can induce the gum to [01:30:10] grow as you want, like an abutment. Move it.

Payman Langroudi: Right.

Giovanni Martino: Yes. [01:30:15] Because you you can go in as much as you want with the materials. For [01:30:20] example, zirconia, hyper polish the in the gingival septum. [01:30:25] I mean like that. Don’t want to get very technical in that. But there [01:30:30] are some people that reject these these some technicians that reject some dentists [01:30:35] that don’t know that they can do that. Their life is simple if they do vertical [01:30:40] sometimes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So but what we were talking about something. [01:30:45]

Giovanni Martino: You were speaking about the wow of something, the wow of the yields. [01:30:50]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So so now going forward. Yeah. Do you [01:30:55] think your sort of ambition is to open your own? [01:31:00]

Giovanni Martino: Do you know that? Um, I. Yes. [01:31:05] The answer is yes, but I don’t know [01:31:10] yet what layout the dental practice [01:31:15] has to have, or what principal needs to [01:31:20] be in the constitution of the dental practice. Reason is [01:31:25] because I’ve worked for a lot, a lot of people, not only [01:31:30] for Alfonso, for like Massimo, etc., etc. I worked for a lot [01:31:35] of people and principle can be toxic for [01:31:40] an associate. But not only also for the the. And, uh, I [01:31:45] need to. I need to find [01:31:50] the the way of opening [01:31:55] a sound and organic business. [01:32:00] And that’s I don’t know how to do it yet. So. But my ambition is. Yes. So. [01:32:05]

Payman Langroudi: So then are you constantly on the lookout? You’re looking. No no no no no, I don’t mean for business. I mean for [01:32:10] for these principles.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re thinking [01:32:15] I learned this from Alphonse. I learned what not to do from doctor X. [01:32:20] Whatever. Yes.

Giovanni Martino: Yes, yes.

Payman Langroudi: So. So just indulge [01:32:25] me, man. Imagine. Imagine you met a billionaire and he gave you. I don’t know, [01:32:30] he said, look, I don’t care how much it costs. Yeah, yeah, make make a clinic. Yeah. [01:32:35]

Giovanni Martino: Um, first of all, I would like to spend a little bit more. Where would.

Payman Langroudi: It be? [01:32:40] First of all, Bristol. Do you feel like Bristol? Do you feel like Bristol is now your your forever? [01:32:45]

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, yeah, it’s my.

Payman Langroudi: Forever home.

Giovanni Martino: At the moment. Yes I have 25 years.

Payman Langroudi: Mortgage. [01:32:50]

Giovanni Martino: So.

Payman Langroudi: At.

Giovanni Martino: The moment need to be there. But yeah, let’s imagine Bristol. Okay, first [01:32:55] of all I will invest a little bit more in paediatric dentistry. Okay. That’s a [01:33:00] field that the money are there on the floor and nobody is taking it. Yeah. Just [01:33:05] just to let you to understand and, uh, and [01:33:10] you have a great opportunity to, to make, uh, the thing traumatic [01:33:15] for kids. Yeah. So I will say to this millionaire, [01:33:20] uh, a good amount of this money to a paediatric [01:33:25] session of the practice, need to be a part of [01:33:30] the practice where kids are coming without booking appointments, [01:33:35] two hours of their life. Spending time [01:33:40] in the waiting room with parents is like, uh, exactly. [01:33:45] Putting two people together by kids and then one by [01:33:50] one, I will see them.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know if you know Kunal. Um. Love.

Giovanni Martino: Of course I met [01:33:55] him, I went to, I went, I went for an interview there. Oh. Did you. Did you? Yeah, but for [01:34:00] the. For the fun of it.

Payman Langroudi: He’s got two kids. I love that kids only clinic. Did you go there?

Giovanni Martino: I [01:34:05] went there, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting.

Giovanni Martino: It’s very interesting. That kind of stuff. Kind of thing. That kind of stuff. [01:34:10]

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So the kids element. What else?

Giovanni Martino: Um. Full [01:34:15] time, full time associates? No. Part time.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really? [01:34:20]

Giovanni Martino: I think, uh, that, uh, an associate is [01:34:25] like a football player. A football player cannot play for two teams. And [01:34:30] the only moment where I was working [01:34:35] and I learned from my mistakes, and, uh, [01:34:40] I was earning the best money, was working full time for that [01:34:45] four days a week in the same practice.

Payman Langroudi: So to have the sort of the [01:34:50] ethos, the commitment.

Giovanni Martino: Yes. But no, not for me or the principle [01:34:55] or the practice, even for them, for you, it’s, it’s it’s not [01:35:00] good going somewhere else. Take the toxicity of somewhere else. Bring it somewhere. So [01:35:05] if you want to improve, improve where you are. Then if you don’t feel [01:35:10] in the right place anymore, go somewhere else but full, full [01:35:15] time. If I am the principle, I work in my dental practice. I work [01:35:20] with the team.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but then you might want to open more. I mean, it’s [01:35:25] possible, isn’t it?

Giovanni Martino: And that’s, that’s something that, for example, you need to become [01:35:30] you need to you need to change your business. Um, um, [01:35:35] model, model. Exactly. You are becoming a franchise. And you need [01:35:40] to lower your standards and standardise. You cannot have [01:35:45] someone better than one someone.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting question, isn’t it, that that question of do you have to lower your [01:35:50] standards if you. I mean, it’s definitely the biggest danger of growth.

Giovanni Martino: But that’s an [01:35:55] inevitable, uh, process to grow it back again. I [01:36:00] know.

Payman Langroudi: I know, but but what I’m saying is that if I walk into a Gucci shop. [01:36:05] Yeah. In. But that’s in Mumbai. Yes. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, that’s.

Payman Langroudi: The experience will be similar [01:36:10] to the Gucci shop in, in London. Yes.

Giovanni Martino: But because the training is the same [01:36:15] so you need to standardise it. Yeah. All right. But if you don’t standardise [01:36:20] it you are going to you’re going to have problems because first of all price [01:36:25] why spending less money there and then more money here. Yeah. Uh why [01:36:30] this patient cannot this dentist cannot deliver me this and that. So you need [01:36:35] to standardise. And unfortunately, it’s difficult to standardise dentistry unless you do it in [01:36:40] a very low level, like my dentist, not low level. Basic level. All right. Because there [01:36:45] are great clinician anyway. But basic level then of course in the same structure you can [01:36:50] do whatever you want. But the standard base standard need to be the same.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:36:55] So look, just before you were here, I had a guy, uh, he’s got 12 [01:37:00] practices all the same.

Giovanni Martino: The orthodontist one.

Payman Langroudi: No, no. [01:37:05] This morning.

Giovanni Martino: All right. So they didn’t go out yet? No, no. All right.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So 12 [01:37:10] practices all the same. He and he was saying that all he wants to change dentistry and whatever. [01:37:15] And, uh, he’s not a dentist himself. All right. Um, and he was talking [01:37:20] about the waiting room and the smell and this and that and the greeting [01:37:25] and the follow up. Okay. And he was saying all of that the same. But in the dental chair, [01:37:30] we don’t tell them anything, is it? And it’s a really.

Giovanni Martino: Good point.

Payman Langroudi: Actually. [01:37:35] You know, it’s interesting idea.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. Because dentists are artists, you cannot really [01:37:40] tell what they have to do. It’s difficult.

Payman Langroudi: To change dentist behaviour.

Giovanni Martino: But the standardised [01:37:45] dental reception and wet nurse the way. How [01:37:50] is your customer service that can be standardised? Yes yes yes. [01:37:55]

Payman Langroudi: And even even to your point, my dentist. They’ve got some gigantic clinics. [01:38:00] Yeah, yeah.

Giovanni Martino: 14, 16 years.

Payman Langroudi: I was in a meeting [01:38:05] with them and I said, oh, I’ll turn up to any clinic that has more than eight chairs or something. [01:38:10] You’re thinking, how many of those could there be? And it turned out that the whole business model was to [01:38:15] go to a town by 4 or 5 practices and turn them into one giant practice. [01:38:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s impressive the way they run some of those studios. Yeah. I think about [01:38:25] sometimes, you know, when we went from 30 staff to 40 staff, it was really difficult to manage [01:38:30] that process. And new people, they’ve got 650 practices [01:38:35] man. So to keep anything standardised Across that sort [01:38:40] of number is difficult, is difficult.

Giovanni Martino: This is the reason why you need to simplify it. Yeah, but the other thing.

Payman Langroudi: I’m [01:38:45] finding some associates now. Yeah. Saying they’re going to corporates never back [01:38:50] in the like eight, nine years ago. You would never hear that. You never hear an associate saying, [01:38:55] I’m going to go for a corporate job from an independent job. And the only reason [01:39:00] is because it’s standardised. They know what they’re going to get. It might not be the best thing in [01:39:05] the world, but they know what they’re going to get. And knowing that sometimes it’s [01:39:10] compared to an independent where you don’t know what you’re going to get.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. I worked for a corporate. Interesting. [01:39:15] Yeah. You know exactly where they are going to fuck you up and [01:39:20] you get get the you get that. You know, with [01:39:25] Roderick’s. I was with Roderick’s.

Payman Langroudi: Yes.

Giovanni Martino: Which they treat me very, very good. I mean, [01:39:30] like, um, during the pandemic, they were paying us. Of [01:39:35] course, that was the NHS thing, but they were. And if was not because of that, [01:39:40] I was back in Italy now. Really? Yeah. Because I was not working. [01:39:45] I was a mentee. I was forcing at home, I was a, I was I [01:39:50] wanted to work, but I was forced at home. So the hubs that they organised, they [01:39:55] didn’t let me go there.

Payman Langroudi: Well, we’re coming to the end of our time. [01:40:00] Oh, no. I feel like we haven’t even started.

Giovanni Martino: Oh, no. Did we started? Ha [01:40:05] ha ha.

Payman Langroudi: Um. Biggest mistake. Biggest mistake. Clinical mistake. [01:40:10] Biggest what? A patient that stands out in your mind, a difficult [01:40:15] patient.

Giovanni Martino: Um, the clinical.

Payman Langroudi: Something [01:40:20] someone else can learn from.

Giovanni Martino: Clinical. Uh, [01:40:25] the non non-planning. Right? Right. Uh, a thing like [01:40:30] a treatment, for example. Um. I’ve [01:40:35] done an extraction that was a difficult extraction.

Payman Langroudi: Didn’t realise before and.

Giovanni Martino: I [01:40:40] didn’t realise that was that difficult. So I didn’t go surgery. [01:40:45] I didn’t have, um, uh, separate routes. I didn’t go that direction. [01:40:50] So I end up breaking a bit of bone and the patient start, like, [01:40:55] not complaining, but, uh, you know, felt it for a long time. Loss [01:41:00] of bone and. Et cetera. Et cetera. Planification. So my, my, [01:41:05] the mistake was the tooth came out so clinically it was not a mistake because can be [01:41:10] in the actual, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Which was it, the tuberosity.

Giovanni Martino: Uh, no, it [01:41:15] was a bone of a seven. So some people not even think about [01:41:20] this as a mistake. But if I was sectioning the roots.

Payman Langroudi: That wouldn’t [01:41:25] have.

Giovanni Martino: Happened. Yes. Yeah. So for me, my mistakes are in the planning or communication. [01:41:30]

Payman Langroudi: That’s like, come on, that’s not a big mistake.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah. I was thinking I made a bigger mistake, a mistake, [01:41:35] but, um, it was my.

Payman Langroudi: Mistake. It’s not a mistake. Some people [01:41:40] mistake that question. They think, oh, I dropped something and forget [01:41:45] that. I’m talking about a difficult patient who’s who? Who comes to mind when I say, [01:41:50] who is your most difficult patient?

Giovanni Martino: The one that you need to go to holiday. I, [01:41:55] uh, I cried once because two people complained [01:42:00] in my face. Not like escalator on a formal complaint, like a face to face complaint, because [01:42:05] I was not able to deliver the them a feeling on the spot [01:42:10] in 20 minutes in the in the NHS because they were going [01:42:15] on holiday and someone else was complaining because I was not able to deliver like a temporary [01:42:20] crown on a frontal tooth, on the spot, on an emergency appointment, something [01:42:25] like that. And they were complaining me face to face and [01:42:30] I back. I went back home crying. Kind of. Yeah, [01:42:35] yeah. I mean, like, but then I realised that you need to be firm with patients. [01:42:40] We need to. I’m not the right dentist for you if you want this, because you’re not. So my [01:42:45] my mistakes are in the communication. Probably. I don’t know if I made a [01:42:50] huge mistake. Probably that’s that’s I’m speaking about something that I’m [01:42:55] ignorant of. Probably I’ve done a huge mistake that I don’t know. No.

Payman Langroudi: You’re also too [01:43:00] young. You’re also too young to have made lots of mistakes.

Giovanni Martino: Probably. I don’t have the actual follow [01:43:05] up follow up of something, but my mistakes are in the communication. In [01:43:10] the communication, and yeah, in the planning. And that’s a big those are big mistakes actually. [01:43:15] If I if you think about it, a full mouth rehabilitation without planning it, without [01:43:20] planning in the right way is a mistake. You’re you’re doing a mistake. [01:43:25] That is a hassle.

Payman Langroudi: How often do you do that?

Giovanni Martino: Full mouth Rehab every [01:43:30] time I do ortho.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: Uh, but, [01:43:35] um, with ortho quite often, because [01:43:40] when I start doing my own ortho, I start realising, [01:43:45] uh, that, um, yeah, the teeth were able [01:43:50] to go in a better position, even in a better bite, even [01:43:55] building up some with composite or with veneers if the patient wants, or with crowns [01:44:00] if it’s needed. So most of the time is when I do big [01:44:05] ortho cases, I do every time it’s in. The thing is full mouth rehabilitation [01:44:10] because you’re rehabilitating the bite of a person if you think about it. True, [01:44:15] true. So that is true.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to the final questions.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Fantasy [01:44:20] dinner party.

Giovanni Martino: I thought about it. Three guests.

Payman Langroudi: So dead [01:44:25] or alive.

Giovanni Martino: I, I came up with two, but then I will. I [01:44:30] will tell you some one freestyle. The third one. The first one is my father, [01:44:35] of course, because I would like to have a dinner with him. Of course. Uh, the second one is Berlusconi. [01:44:40] I don’t know if you know Berlusconi character.

Payman Langroudi: Yes, [01:44:45] but what was he like? A bit of like a Donald Trump plus.

Giovanni Martino: Yes. [01:44:50] And, um. Uh, it was, it was a Donald Trump, but with better [01:44:55] jokes. Plus.

Payman Langroudi: Plus.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah, but funnier, much funnier. And, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Richest man [01:45:00] in Italy, right? No. Was he not? No.

Giovanni Martino: No. But, uh, very rich. Probably. [01:45:05] Yes.

Payman Langroudi: One of the.

Giovanni Martino: Richest. Non non non non non [01:45:10] gangster.

Payman Langroudi: Non gangster. Yeah.

Giovanni Martino: Oh that’s debateable as well. [01:45:15] Um the third person uh. [01:45:20] Pascal man. Why not. I mean like, because I’ve never met [01:45:25] him, and I think he’s a genius in what he does, not only clinically and researching, [01:45:30] but also in the way that he communicates the stuff. So it’s funny. I think so [01:45:35] why not?

Payman Langroudi: He’s good. You’ve never met.

Giovanni Martino: Him? Never met him. I imagine [01:45:40] going into in Miami and doing his course. Oh.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing.

Giovanni Martino: At the moment I just have [01:45:45] the books.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. Your great books? Yeah. And the final question. It’s [01:45:50] a deathbed question.

Giovanni Martino: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s difficult for someone as young as you, but. But, yeah, [01:45:55] let’s just say on your deathbed, surrounded by [01:46:00] your loved ones. Yeah. Three pieces of advice. What would they be?

Giovanni Martino: Three [01:46:05] pieces of advice. One for sure. [01:46:10] For sure. Don’t take life too seriously because [01:46:15] it doesn’t need to. I mean, like, yeah, of course life is shit. It can [01:46:20] be. But don’t take it so seriously. Simplify things because it is [01:46:25] always a phase. It always will pass. The second thing. [01:46:30] Eat good, drink good. And [01:46:35] the third thing. Love. Love something or someone that [01:46:40] makes you a better person. But I just freestyled it. I didn’t know that you were [01:46:45] doing. Yeah. Love something or someone is make you passionate about. So love. [01:46:50] Love music, love something. Love speaking to people, love your wife [01:46:55] or whatever. Love. But it seems that I am a five years [01:47:00] old. That doing an essay. Yeah, I love someone know, but get passionate in something. [01:47:05] Come on. All right.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing, [01:47:10] man. I really, really enjoyed it. Like I say, I think we could have kept going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, [01:47:15] unfortunately.

Giovanni Martino: I don’t know. I have a train, actually, to go back.

Payman Langroudi: Thank [01:47:20] you so much for doing this.

Giovanni Martino: Thank you for so much. I was very excited to do that.

Payman Langroudi: I can’t believe you know [01:47:25] when you were talking. I can’t believe I’ve only known you for 3 or 4 years. It feels much longer than that. Oh, really? I’m [01:47:30] a.

Giovanni Martino: Daddy now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Amazing.

Giovanni Martino: Thank you very much. Thank [01:47:35] you so much. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This is Dental. Leaders [01:47:40] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [01:47:45] Your hosts, Payman Langroudi [01:47:50] and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If [01:47:55] you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay [01:48:00] for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had to say, [01:48:05] because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

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