Awaz Sharief: I was doing this research, like I told you, and I was like, I need to get this word out there. And I just had this vision. I’m going to be speaking [00:00:05] at the British Dental Conference. So I called and I emailed and they [00:00:10] were like, okay, yeah, you can talk, but you need to find a sponsor. Yeah. That’s what I was.

Payman Langroudi: Saying about is there a company behind.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, [00:00:15] yeah. You need to. And then I’m like, where am I going to find a sponsor? And they’re like, well, you’re just gonna have to find someone, right? [00:00:20] So so I contacted Septagon and they were like, oh, they were quoting, you know, [00:00:25] the conference. They were like, oh, it’s going to just for that, I think 45 minute session. They were quoting [00:00:30] like 2 or 3 grand and Septagon is like, no, we’re not going to sponsor that. Like we don’t even know who you are. [00:00:35] Yeah. Like you don’t you’ve not even built your credibility. And I just thought, right, okay. And then I tried the European. [00:00:40] No. What was it, the British endodontic society. But they’d already given their slots to someone [00:00:45] else. And then I tried to get in contact. I think Dental Directory were doing one as well, and my dentist [00:00:50] would do one, but they’d all given their slots away. So I’m like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And then, um, the [00:00:55] lady on the phone that I kept calling, she saw how passionate I was. And you know what she said to me? She said, do you know [00:01:00] what call us like. Like message us or contact us. A month before, because [00:01:05] sometimes some people drop out. Sometimes we have empty slots and if no one else takes them, we’ll just give them [00:01:10] to you. Like we can see how passionate you are. So that’s what I did. A month before I’m like, you know, have you got any empty slots? [00:01:15] And then so that’s when they gave me my first session, so I didn’t even have to have a sponsor.

[VOICE]: This [00:01:20] is Dental Leaders, the [00:01:25] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging [00:01:30] leaders in dentistry. Your [00:01:35] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:01:40] gives me great pleasure to welcome our Sharif onto the podcast hours. As a young dentist with a special [00:01:45] interest in minimally invasive endodontics, which doesn’t mean what I thought it meant [00:01:50] before I looked into it. Um, so we’ll get into that. Um, also [00:01:55] lecturing on Endo, um, the turbulent early early [00:02:00] career. And now, on top of everything, we haven’t seen a dentist so excited [00:02:05] for a little while. So lovely to have you. Ours.

Awaz Sharief: Thank you. Thank you very much. It’s lovely to be here.

Payman Langroudi: Coming all the way from Manchester [00:02:10] as well? Yes, yes. Which you’re saying it’s raining in Manchester? No, yesterday. It was raining yesterday, to be honest.

Awaz Sharief: This morning [00:02:15] it was raining as well. And I come into London and it’s nice and sunny and I’m so hot and I’m like not dressed for it. [00:02:20]

Payman Langroudi: So listen, I want to sometimes we normally start with the backstory but but sometimes I’ve [00:02:25] got a burning question and I just need to get the burning question out first and then whatever else happens, let’s go for [00:02:30] it. So minimally invasive endodontics. I thought it meant these [00:02:35] sort of very tiny access cavities. Access. Um, yeah. Preparations. [00:02:40] And then trying to get this access preparation to be as straight line as possible. So you’re removing [00:02:45] as little dentine as possible. And I thought that was that. But reading [00:02:50] your work and everything about what you’re doing, that there’s a pulpotomy [00:02:55] approach to it where you’re not doing the full endo and kind of trying to save the vitality [00:03:00] of the tooth. Yeah. Um, firstly, I [00:03:05] could just hear dentists all over the country saying, Thank God. Celebrating. Yeah. Celebrating [00:03:10] that they don’t have to do a full endo. So how come we haven’t heard about this? How new is it? [00:03:15] Is it that I don’t know what I’m talking about or is it very.

Awaz Sharief: So, you know, that’s a really good question. And [00:03:20] that’s why I wanted to get the message out there, because I’m actually doing a master’s in endodontics. And [00:03:25] we had a lecture and it was on this topic, and I was just blown away. And [00:03:30] I thought, whoa. Like, this is this is the first time I’ve heard of this. And then when I’m, when I, in [00:03:35] my final year, do my dissertation, I decided that I wanted my research topic to be on this topic because I [00:03:40] wanted to actually apply it in clinical practice. And I thought, well, what better way to research this topic [00:03:45] than actually choosing this as my research topic? So when I started researching into [00:03:50] it and I was fascinated, I was reading so many papers and articles and, and, [00:03:55] you know, randomised clinical trials. And I was shocked to see that a lot of like more [00:04:00] than 90% of these randomised clinical trials were getting above, you know, 95% [00:04:05] success rates. Um, and that’s just traditionally diagnosed with irreversible pulpitis. But it [00:04:10] has to be vital. And I’m just thinking, okay, how do I get how do I replicate those results. So [00:04:15] I looked at all of those studies that were randomised clinical trials that had above 90% success [00:04:20] rates. And I went through their protocol and and over time, after reading so many articles, [00:04:25] I realised that there was a pattern. They were using the same procedure. So I replicated that procedure and I [00:04:30] applied it in my own clinical practice, and I was getting very similar results.

Awaz Sharief: And so then I [00:04:35] just thought, oh my gosh, this is mind blowing. This is amazing. I’m finally starting to get predictability. And even when it came to [00:04:40] I mean, I’m sure everybody I think everybody dentist, every dentist relates to this where you get a [00:04:45] patient who comes in, they’ve got deep caries and it’s like, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You always [00:04:50] warn the patient, you know, I can go ahead and fill it. The patient is asymptomatic, but you might be in pain. [00:04:55] Or do we just do an elective root canal, or do we just remove a little bit of the caries? You [00:05:00] know how much of the caries you actually remove. So that that’s a dilemma I think every dentist can relate to. And obviously as a general [00:05:05] dentist, I had those cases all the time. So I thought, well, let me do the research to see what does the research [00:05:10] actually say. And actually by doing the research, I was able to make that distinction and I [00:05:15] had confidence to know, okay, well, I know now when I go and do a root canal, I [00:05:20] know now when I can just remove some of the caries. And I know now when to do a pulpotomy, [00:05:25] I guess. So um, once I started to get that predictability and I, you know, [00:05:30] I hadn’t using this technique, I haven’t had a single patient come back to me in pain, you know, with those who’ve got deep [00:05:35] caries, and which is great because as dentists, we never want patients to be in pain.

Awaz Sharief: And it’s [00:05:40] always unfortunate when we get a patient who comes in, they’re not in pain. And you tell them, look, you [00:05:45] need a filling doing. And they’re like, you know, not convinced because they’re not getting any pain. And then you do a filling and now they’re in pain [00:05:50] and they think it’s your fault, even though you’ve worn them. So to have this predictability, where none of my patients are [00:05:55] coming back in pain, I just knew that every dentist would relate to it. So I just had [00:06:00] this aha moment and I was like, I need to get this message out across to as many dentists as possible. And it just came from a [00:06:05] genuine, pure place of I want to help other dentists. And that’s what really inspired me [00:06:10] to, um, you know, start talking about this. I went to and started speaking at various [00:06:15] different conferences across the country and actually got a lot of a lot of dentists who were like as as [00:06:20] excited and passionate about this as I was. So, um, that’s how it started. But in relation to what you would [00:06:25] what you initially said about minimally invasive endodontics, a part of it is that minimal access. But [00:06:30] another part of it is, yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: A different part of it.

Awaz Sharief: It’s a different part of it. Yeah. That’s the part that I’m really interested in. [00:06:35]

Payman Langroudi: So look, by the time something makes it onto a master’s course, [00:06:40] it’s already been around 15, 20 years.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, it has actually this started [00:06:45] in the year 2000. So it’s been about what, 24 years. But that’s when it so. [00:06:50]

Payman Langroudi: Interesting how it hasn’t made it like out of Indo masters. Like the story’s [00:06:55] not really out there that it’s. So my understanding is that traditional [00:07:00] way of diagnosing sort of reversible or irreversible pulpitis isn’t [00:07:05] so helpful in this situation, is that right? Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Actually there’s there’s been talks about scrapping [00:07:10] the whole, um, diagnostic, you know, the old diagnostic system of reversible, irreversible [00:07:15] and actually just having different levels of pulpitis. So you’ve got initial pulpitis, you’ve got, you know, [00:07:20] and then severe pulpitis, moderate severe. Yeah. So, so.

Payman Langroudi: So then just I know I know, you know, you’ve [00:07:25] done your research on it but but just distil it for us. If I’m a dentist [00:07:30] it’s a deep hole. At what. How do I know when I should remove all the caries [00:07:35] and risk going into the pulp, or when I should definitely do that and do a pulpotomy? [00:07:40] Yeah. Is a pulpotomy different to what it was when I learned it in dental school?

Awaz Sharief: Not much.

Payman Langroudi: No, no. [00:07:45] What are the materials? Is it MTA?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Mta or by COVID-19. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So tell [00:07:50] us, tell us that. Just that. That simple story of it. It’s a deep amalgam. I get there, I’m [00:07:55] near the pulp. How do I know? How do I know whether I should not go in or whether I should go [00:08:00] in?

Awaz Sharief: Very good question. So the first thing is, if you know that it’s a deeply carious tooth, you need to make sure [00:08:05] that you’ve got what we call an aseptic procedure. So that means that you need to have rubber dam. You [00:08:10] need to make sure that there’s no saliva getting contaminated because a lot of research has been [00:08:15] done. And there’s a very popular research that’s quoted in the In the Endodontic World by [00:08:20] Takahashi back in 1965. And that is that as long as you can keep a bacteria free environment, [00:08:25] the pulp has the ability to regenerate itself. So if you can keep a bacteria [00:08:30] free zone, there’s differences of opinion. But going back to the scenario that you [00:08:35] said about the amalgam, you know, or like you’re you’re drilling out all of the carriers, you’re close to the [00:08:40] pulp. And the way I would do it is that if I’ve got an aseptic procedure. So I’m using [00:08:45] rubber dam. They also recommend that you actually disinfect the tooth as well before you go in with the burr. With what? [00:08:50] And so just use you can either use like um chlorhexidine or you can use sodium [00:08:55] hypochlorite, just a cotton pledget. And the idea is if there is any bacteria on the surface of the tooth, [00:09:00] you’re just disinfecting it. So when you go in with your burr, the, you know, the bacteria isn’t actually going [00:09:05] into, into, you know, the deeper, um, areas of the tooth. So, um, [00:09:10] if, if I removed all the caries and I can’t see the pulp, even though I know it’s close at that point, what I would [00:09:15] do is I’d do I’d use by dentine and then I’d put, you know, GIC over the top of that resin, modified [00:09:20] GIC, and then I would just restore it.

Awaz Sharief: And we don’t really do amalgam so much now. So I do composite, you [00:09:25] know. Of course. And that’s what I would do now, um, if I went in and I actually had a pulp [00:09:30] exposure. Um, so I removed all the caries. I had a pulp exposure. What I would do at that point [00:09:35] is that I would actually have to monitor how the pulp looks like. So you would need magnification, you [00:09:40] would need good light. And then there are certain clues that would indicate there’s actually a necrotic pulp that you’d need [00:09:45] to remove. So telltale signs obviously it’s not bleeding if you’ve exposed and it’s not bleeding, [00:09:50] that’s a telltale sign. However, if it is bleeding and it’s bleeding profusely to the [00:09:55] point where you can’t achieve haemostasia. And so haemostasia is basically where you apply pressure for [00:10:00] about five minutes. And if the bleeding doesn’t stop, that’s that’s basically classed as a an inflamed [00:10:05] pulp. So you’d need to just remove, keep removing and part of the pulp until you’re [00:10:10] actually able to get down to healthy pulp. And healthy pulp looks like it’s got to be bleeding, [00:10:15] but it’s not bleeding profusely, so it’s not bleeding outside of the actual cavity. So so [00:10:20] long as the and I’ve got pictures, um, as well, I’ve actually published a paper, um, [00:10:25] with the dentistry magazine. So I’ve got a picture of actually how a healthy bleeding pulp looks like. So once [00:10:30] I get there, then I stop and and that that would basically be my benchmark. So it’s every tooth [00:10:35] is different. So having a one size fits all isn’t really going to work because stop.

Payman Langroudi: And then MTA [00:10:40] or bio.

Awaz Sharief: Dent. Yeah yeah. But yeah basically by Dental and then fill it and that’s it. But [00:10:45] obviously if you’ve got a multi-rooted tooth, you have to do that with all of the all of the canals.

Payman Langroudi: So then is [00:10:50] there has there been there must have been studies on how far does the bacteria from the caries [00:10:55] get into the pulp. So it’s at the point that that you’re removing the infected [00:11:00] part of the pulp.

Awaz Sharief: Yes, yes.

Payman Langroudi: That’s it. The rest of the part is not infected. It’s [00:11:05] affected. Yes. Is that what.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. So it’s. And [00:11:10] that’s how it all came about because they realised that with them they did a research study and [00:11:15] they actually looked at teeth who were extracted and diagnosed with irreversible pulpitis. And they [00:11:20] looked at it through histology. And they realised actually the majority of the infection and inflammation [00:11:25] is just in the pulp chamber. So that’s when they said, so why are we why are we removing the whole pulp when the [00:11:30] pulp when in the majority of these cases it’s just limited to the pulp chamber. So that’s why [00:11:35] and obviously how infected it is and how deep it is, is dependent on each tooth. You can’t really that’s why [00:11:40] you have to.

Payman Langroudi: And what if it is necrotic that. Does that mean that that needs an RCT full stop? Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: So what [00:11:45] I would do is I would keep drilling until I get down to the canals. So if I remove the pulp chamber and it’s still necrotic, [00:11:50] then that’s when you know, it’s a true you know, it’s truly necrotic, then that needs a root canal. [00:11:55] But um, the tooth is actually can regenerate itself if you can remove the inflamed infected pulp, [00:12:00] that as long as you’ve got healthy pulp that’s there, the body can take care of itself. As long as that’s why [00:12:05] Byzantine is so good for that, because actually encourages the healing. Um, in the past we didn’t have [00:12:10] Byzantine, so that’s why we weren’t able to use this technique. And it wasn’t as effective in the past. [00:12:15]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but but is there ever a situation where I go into the pulp? It’s not bleeding. I drill, drill, [00:12:20] drill, and then suddenly it’s bleeding? Or is that not something that can sometimes happen?

Awaz Sharief: Oh, really? If you remove the necrotic [00:12:25] portion.

Payman Langroudi: And now I hit blood, now I can stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I get haemostasia. [00:12:30]

Awaz Sharief: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Is that. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And and I take it if there’s any sign of [00:12:35] periapical infection then that’s.

Awaz Sharief: A very good question. Actually, there’s quite a few papers that were published [00:12:40] publish that. If you can see a periapical radiolucency, as long as the tooth is still vital, you should give the tooth the benefit [00:12:45] of the doubt, because the peripheral radiolucency doesn’t actually doesn’t always indicate that the tooth is [00:12:50] necrotic. All right. Yeah, it’s very interesting, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: I suppose if it’s multi-rooted right, one [00:12:55] root could be and one. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: So that’s why seeing the healthy bleeding pulp is important. As [00:13:00] long as you see healthy bleeding pulp, you’re good to go.

Payman Langroudi: How interesting is that?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, man.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:13:05] your interest in endo is not only in this kind of endo. It’s like fully [00:13:10] endo like you get you get you get referrals I get referrals.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Referrals.

Payman Langroudi: So endo. [00:13:15]

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. So basically all kind of like, you know complex cases I do get referrals within the practice outside [00:13:20] the practice. And so I do I mean I love endo I love endo from dental school. And I knew that I wanted to take [00:13:25] it further. And it’s just that when I did my master’s and I thought, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

Payman Langroudi: What was it? Was [00:13:30] it was it one particular teacher or what was it? Because all of us hate it. But in dental school, [00:13:35] you know.

Awaz Sharief: I went to Liverpool and I think that the teaching at Liverpool was really good back [00:13:40] in my day. I don’t know what it’s like now so.

Payman Langroudi: I’m sure it’s great.

Awaz Sharief: Um, so [00:13:45] it was really good. And um, I just remember just reading, you know, just we had [00:13:50] like a course like, you know, like a operative skill suite course and on the Phantom Heads. And I [00:13:55] just remember being fascinated. I just, I was so fascinated with how precise it is, and it kind of. It’s in line [00:14:00] with my personality, I would say, like, I’m someone who is willing to put [00:14:05] the effort in and then see the results after. I’m not like a quick fix kind of person. And [00:14:10] I love the idea of saving teeth. So for me, I was just fascinated with the with how precise it was and how accurate it was. And [00:14:15] step one, step two, step three. Like, I just loved it. Um, so then I just remember, um, just [00:14:20] like reading, reading around the subject and then it just clicked. And for me.

Payman Langroudi: Go on, go on. When you say [00:14:25] it clicked. Yeah. What was the moment where just a regular window clicked for you?

Awaz Sharief: I [00:14:30] was at dental school. I was at dental school. And, um, I just remember, um, [00:14:35] just doing, you know, researching, um, you know, reading around the subject within the phantom [00:14:40] heads with regards to endodontics and just like reading and then just thinking to [00:14:45] myself, okay, right. This this makes sense to me. You know, all the steps that you go through in terms [00:14:50] of like, coronal flaring and then shaping and cleaning and, um, you know, disinfection, [00:14:55] irrigation, all of that. It was just solid in my mind. And then I did it on a patient and [00:15:00] I got so much, you know, good feedback from, from the tutors that I had that I was like, you know, I love this. And I think [00:15:05] I think it really does make a difference. If you start off having good experiences, you’re obviously going to get bad experiences [00:15:10] down the line, but those bad experiences aren’t going to really put you off as much because you know you’ve got good experience. Whereas [00:15:15] I think for a lot of dentists, they tend to not have good experiences. And then it just kind of really puts them off and [00:15:20] they just want to refer everything out. So I think for me, dental school really gave me a solid foundation. And, [00:15:25] you know, it was um, you know, I’m quite religious. And it was I just remember [00:15:30] being, I think I was in my third year dental school, and it was just such a random thing that I [00:15:35] prayed for. And I was like, I really pray that because at one point I didn’t really understand Endo. And I just remember [00:15:40] praying that I hope that I understand endo so much, that I love it and [00:15:45] it becomes my passion. And I can’t believe that it’s that now I’m actually living, living that prayer.

Payman Langroudi: So, [00:15:50] you know, you know, like if you pray for something and it happens. Yeah, that [00:15:55] sort of reaffirms your belief in the thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do you ever get the opposite? [00:16:00] Like something terrible happens in your life and you think that’s so [00:16:05] unfair? And I, that’s not the God I believe in. Does that ever happen?

Awaz Sharief: No, that’s never happened. [00:16:10]

Payman Langroudi: Because do you also get positive feedback if something awful happens as well? Yeah. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: I mean like like, [00:16:15] you know, there’s always there’s always something positive out of everything. So so I’ll tell you something. At [00:16:20] dental school, I actually, um, I actually failed one of my years and it was the [00:16:25] clinical side. Um, and that was the clinic. So I was fine [00:16:30] academically. I’ve always been fine. I’ve always been a straight A student. But. And when it came to the clinical side, it was always [00:16:35] something that I was it was just a confidence thing. Like like I told you, I’m very precise. And for me, if [00:16:40] it wasn’t perfect, it wasn’t good enough. And I just felt very self conscious that, oh my gosh, it’s not perfect. So it’s not good enough. [00:16:45] And you know, I just used to get really worked up and I actually failed my fourth year. Um, [00:16:50] and again it was just purely clinical. Sorry.

Payman Langroudi: Which subject was it?

Awaz Sharief: It was the clinical. [00:16:55] I did just the clinical. It was just the clinical side. Yeah. Because, you know, every time we went on the clinic.

Payman Langroudi: Why are you telling [00:17:00] me you failed? Why, why where were we? Why were you telling me the story?

Awaz Sharief: So about about faith and [00:17:05] God and how things go wrong? Yeah. Go on, go on. So, yeah. So I actually did fail it. And, um, [00:17:10] you know, obviously I was devastated at the time, but it actually turned out to be one of my best years [00:17:15] when I, when I reset that year, because I reset that year and it just allowed me to reset [00:17:20] everything. It found.

Payman Langroudi: The good in it.

Awaz Sharief: Like I found so much good in it. You know, at the end of the year, I was like, I don’t [00:17:25] want this year to end. Like, I’m going to go into final year now. And, um, it’s just really gonna, um, you [00:17:30] know, obviously the stress of but on the.

Payman Langroudi: On the faith point, on the faith point. Since we’re talking about faith.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. [00:17:35]

Payman Langroudi: Has anything ever made you go? I question my faith.

Awaz Sharief: Not [00:17:40] really. No. Love that. What about you?

Payman Langroudi: Are you quite religious enterprise? [00:17:45] No, no, no, not at all. Not at all.

Awaz Sharief: Not at all. Do you believe in God?

Payman Langroudi: No.

Awaz Sharief: Oh, that’s a shame. [00:17:50] Yeah. Have you never believed in God? It’s difficult.

Payman Langroudi: Not believing.

Awaz Sharief: Isn’t it hard, [00:17:55] though? Like, do you not find it depressing like that? You just die and that’s it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. [00:18:00]

Awaz Sharief: Gosh.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s harder. And it’s also harder. Like, you know, [00:18:05] like I’ve got a friend. I was with him last night, and, you know, if if life’s getting really hard. [00:18:10] I mean, he’s a he’s a top surgeon, one of the world’s top surgeons. Yeah. And he and he was talking about, [00:18:15] you know, there’s some operations that some situations where he doesn’t know what to do and [00:18:20] what, you know, and, and he thinks it’ll be all right. Yeah. Because someone’s looking out [00:18:25] for me. Yeah. Yeah. I haven’t got that. Yeah. And there have been moments in life where I wanted [00:18:30] that.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: But have you ever prayed then? No. Have you never [00:18:35] been so desperate that you just call out and pray? Sure.

Payman Langroudi: But I don’t believe anyone’s hearing me.

Awaz Sharief: That’s right. [00:18:40] But then. But then when you prayed out, was it answered like, did you [00:18:45] find relief after it?

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know.

Awaz Sharief: Well, I mean, look at you now, [00:18:50] so obviously.

Payman Langroudi: No, but I’m just saying. Well, it’s an interesting thing, but I guess it’s [00:18:55] down to the way you were brought up. Right. In the end. Yeah. Yeah. You just end up. I wasn’t brought up to. To believe in God. [00:19:00] That you were. And there it is. But what I’m saying is, it’s interesting that, like, when [00:19:05] a good thing happens. Sure. You. You’d say. Of course. Yeah. You know, I believe I asked I [00:19:10] got, but when, if you ask you didn’t get. And then it’s interesting, I’ve asked other [00:19:15] religious people this question and you know like terrible things kid died their their child [00:19:20] died. Yeah. Didn’t that make you question your faith? No. Made it stronger. And I find that weird. [00:19:25] Yeah. Weirdness in.

Awaz Sharief: It. It is. Because then. Because, like. Because every single, I would say every [00:19:30] single trial that I’ve been through. You find out later on that actually there was a big you [00:19:35] know, there’s a big benefit to that. So now that when I do go through trials, then I know from my past [00:19:40] experience, like, I know, I know there’s going to be something bigger on the other side of it. And [00:19:45] actually every single time I found that that’s.

Payman Langroudi: A brilliant podcast called How to Fail. Yeah, it’s all about [00:19:50] that. Yeah. They come in and talking about their three biggest failures in their life. Yeah. And then what? [00:19:55] What it got them.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re you’re Iraqi [00:20:00] Kurdish. I am, yeah. Were you born here or did you.

Awaz Sharief: I was actually born in Iraq. Um, but [00:20:05] my family came to the UK, I think I was about two years old, so I don’t I don’t really remember Iraq [00:20:10] when I was a baby, but I’ve been a couple of times since.

Payman Langroudi: And your. [00:20:15] Was it due to the war or not? It was just immigration.

Awaz Sharief: It was. There was the Kuwaiti war [00:20:20] at the time. The first.

Payman Langroudi: Iraq War?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s why they came to, um.

Payman Langroudi: But you were too young to even remember [00:20:25] arriving here. Or do you remember?

Awaz Sharief: I don’t remember, no, I don’t. My first memories, because I lost [00:20:30] my dad as well when I was quite young and, um, um, and he actually [00:20:35] died from lung cancer because he was a very heavy smoker. Um, and I don’t remember him at [00:20:40] all. And I think, I think my mum said I was about a little over two. Um, [00:20:45] so I don’t I don’t remember him at all, but I do, I do remember when I was like three years old. [00:20:50] Um, but I don’t remember anything before that. I don’t remember him. I don’t remember Iraq. [00:20:55] I just remember, you know, my first memories is me being in this country with my mum and my brother, and [00:21:00] that’s it.

Payman Langroudi: And what did your mum do then? Like it.

Awaz Sharief: Was. [00:21:05] So. Do you know what it was? So she’s like my biggest inspiration. So, um, you know, it was really hard for her. [00:21:10] So, um, she didn’t have any family here, so she came. It was really hard. She was a single mum, [00:21:15] and she refused to get married again. She was like, I want to. I want to spend, you know, um, raising [00:21:20] my two kids. So it’s just me and my brother, and we’ve got, like, a year and a half age gap between us. I’m the eldest one. [00:21:25] Um, and then. So she was on benefits for the longest time, and she wanted to make us have the best education. [00:21:30] And, you know, I just commend her. And I look at her because she was the one who believed in me, and she was [00:21:35] the one who always, you know, wanted me to be better and better and better at everything I did. [00:21:40] And my success goes down to her. So, you know, I’m a dentist now and my brother is a lawyer, and, you know, we’re helping [00:21:45] her and, you know, she’s she’s in a much better place. So. But we will never forget.

Payman Langroudi: What she did. [00:21:50] What did she end up doing?

Awaz Sharief: So she was actually, um, she had like, a side business where she was just doing tailoring, [00:21:55] like, she was just tailoring clothes. That was the only thing that she knew how to do. She didn’t even have any qualifications. [00:22:00] Um, but, yeah, she would be teaching us, you know, like, we, you know, she we used to go to Arabic school as well [00:22:05] because she wanted us to learn Arabic. She’d be teaching us in both, like she was the one who taught me maths, you know, basic skills. And [00:22:10] she would teach us. And, you know, she was a great teacher. And I think she really instilled within me the, you [00:22:15] know, the desire and the passion to want to teach as well. Um, so she was like juggling, [00:22:20] you know, trying, doing her side business, like she was like self-employed, like she was just she’d she’d get [00:22:25] clients coming in to her. She was working from home, you know. She was trying to be a mum, cooking, cleaning, being [00:22:30] there for us. And she’s amazing, you know? Um, and, you know, she’s she’s [00:22:35] really proud of me and my brother, and we were so proud of her as a mum.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:22:40] haven’t got kids, have you?

Awaz Sharief: I do, I’ve got a little boy.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: You do? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So I get. I [00:22:45] get this quite a lot with, uh, women dentists who are working really hard or, [00:22:50] you know, like, now you’re doing teaching and, yeah, let’s say throwing a practice. Let’s say you’re in a practice [00:22:55] in there as well. I’ve had people, you know, lady dentists owns 20 practices. Yeah. Whoa. [00:23:00] With three young children. Yeah. All done through her kitchen table. Yeah. And [00:23:05] quite a lot of guilt. And I get it. I mean, children are all about guilt. Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:10] Um, but the question of, you know, what I think about that is [00:23:15] when that child sitting in that kitchen watching his mum setting [00:23:20] up an empire. Yeah. 20 practice empire. Yeah. When he [00:23:25] grows up, he will see that as work ethic.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: As as [00:23:30] tactics. As, you know, working smart. Not, you know, like so many different things that the kid [00:23:35] will learn by just watching. By osmosis. Yeah, exactly. In the same way as you might have learned [00:23:40] how to chop onions, because you were in the same kitchen as your mom when she was doing, she wasn’t [00:23:45] saying, hey, this is how you chop, chop an onion. Yeah, yeah. You were just in the same room. Yeah. So you saw [00:23:50] that that onion being chopped in that same way. Kids do learn from their [00:23:55] parents work. Yeah. You know, um, so it’s nice [00:24:00] to see a mother who’s doing all of this. How old’s your son? He’s three.

Awaz Sharief: I actually took him along with me. [00:24:05] And the last conference that I was at, which is the in Bristol. He sat through my whole lecture, [00:24:10] and at the end of it, he was like, well done, mum. Good job with the thumbs up. And I just it just made my heart melt. [00:24:15] So I mean because he’s understanding things now. And I told him we’re going to this conference and he was [00:24:20] seeing everything and I’d love for him to be a dentist. Personally, I think dentistry is a great career. I would never push him. But [00:24:25] you know, just this morning on the train, he was like, see me mom, say I’m a dentist. But [00:24:30] yeah, yeah, we’ll see what kind of career path he wants to go down.

Payman Langroudi: But you’re not with [00:24:35] his dad anymore?

Awaz Sharief: No, no. So, um. Yeah. So I’ve [00:24:40] become a single mom now. Um. So. Yeah. Um. Yeah. [00:24:45]

Payman Langroudi: Do you want to talk about that story or not?

Awaz Sharief: Um. Let’s see. [00:24:50] And I don’t really know how to introduce it. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Well, you [00:24:55] were married and then. And then and then it started going wrong. Right? [00:25:00]

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Let’s talk about that. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: What was the character of it going wrong? What was how [00:25:05] what was it like?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Okay. So yeah. So I was married and, um, [00:25:10] I was married for about eight years, and, um, I just became very unhappy. [00:25:15] Um, and then I managed to finally leave. Um, obviously, [00:25:20] having a son played a big role in deciding, um, what decision I wanted [00:25:25] to make, but in the end, I wanted my son to to be in a healthy household. [00:25:30] I wanted him, I didn’t want him to see an unhealthy dynamic and think that that was [00:25:35] that that was okay, because either he will replicate that or he will accept tolerate [00:25:40] it, I guess. Um, so, um, yeah. So I decided to, [00:25:45] to end things. Um, it wasn’t it wasn’t easy. Um, it did get messy, but, [00:25:50] you know, thank God we’re like, in a in a stable place right now. But what I will [00:25:55] say is that going through all of that, it was one of the hardest things I ever had to go through because, [00:26:00] um, there was I’d spent so long suppressing my emotions and how I really [00:26:05] felt. And when you go through a divorce, I don’t wish it upon anyone. But when you go through a divorce, [00:26:10] it’s your emotions come through. Like every day is like an emotional battle. [00:26:15] Every day you’re having to sit through so many different emotions and I’ve never had to do that before. [00:26:20] I’ve never had to sit through so many emotions, like one day you wake up and you’re feeling hopeful, and the next [00:26:25] day you’re grieving, and the day after that you’re angry. And you know, it can be several emotions at once. [00:26:30] And there was a time where I literally woke up. I would wake up and my mom was staying with [00:26:35] me for for some time, just whilst I was finding my two feet, and I’d wake up crying, telling [00:26:40] my mum I don’t want to go to work today and thank God I never actually went through with it.

Awaz Sharief: I always went [00:26:45] to work and I always felt better going to work, but it was one of the hardest things I ever had to go through, and I had to get professional [00:26:50] help because I was like, this is really slowing me down. And and then I was I was juggling obviously being [00:26:55] a single mom with my son. I had to be, you know, I had to be present with him. So I was like, I need to get [00:27:00] I need to get extra support. I need to get professional help so I can go through this. And it actually was the best [00:27:05] thing ever. Because through being really honest with myself about these emotions, I was able [00:27:10] to learn so many lessons and I was able to rediscover myself. So you just kind of get these, those, these [00:27:15] emotions that are coming to the surface of what you’ve been suppressing for so long. And every single one of your [00:27:20] emotions, they’re trying to tell you something. And I think, you know, sometimes you grow up feeling like emotions are bad. [00:27:25] Emotions are getting in your way. Actually, your emotions are there to help you and you just need to welcome [00:27:30] it, acknowledge it and ask, what is this emotion trying to tell me? There’s a lesson in every single one of [00:27:35] those emotions. Those emotions aren’t going to go until you actually address it. So this was the first [00:27:40] time I was able to address things that hadn’t in years, and I was able to actually get to the core of why you think.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:27:45] were suppressing emotions, like, give me an example of that.

Awaz Sharief: So, um, suppressing [00:27:50] emotions, like, for example, anger is wrong. You know, um, I think it was it was always [00:27:55] like, um, I thought I just grew up feeling like being angry was wrong.

Payman Langroudi: Or [00:28:00] a lot of women, a lot of women are taught.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. Like it’s kind of more of like a or for.

Payman Langroudi: A man, being [00:28:05] sad is wrong.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Or crying or. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but actually there’s, there’s a [00:28:10] lot of lessons to be learned in anger. Some anger is an indication of injustice. And when you [00:28:15] don’t confront that, that injustice will go on for longer. So it was the first time I was able to [00:28:20] welcome it and accept that this anger is an emotion that’s trying to tell me something. And had I listened [00:28:25] to it, maybe earlier on down the line, I probably wouldn’t have gone ahead with the marriage.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:28:30] read a book. I mean, here comes the amateur psychologist, right? Yeah. I read a book and it was [00:28:35] saying suppressed anger is the cause of long term depression in [00:28:40] women.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: One of the major causes. Yeah. There’s 100 causes, but but, you know, [00:28:45] like, you know, as the older you get, the more likely you are to get depressed as well. So [00:28:50] it could be that in your 60s you’d hit a major depression. Yeah. [00:28:55] Because you’d suppressed. Suppressed anger. Yeah. All that time?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. [00:29:00]

Payman Langroudi: It’s a crazy idea. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: And the thing is, once you suppress. Because the thing is, in order for you [00:29:05] to enjoy all the emotions, the happiness, the joy, and you have to be able to express all [00:29:10] of those emotions. So by suppressing one, you’re suppressing all the others. So even things like having my ambitions, my dreams, [00:29:15] my hopes, what I really wanted, I even suppressed those parts. And so once I was able to just [00:29:20] fully feel everything and tap into, well, what does my heart want? How do I want to live my life? What do [00:29:25] I really want? So that’s when the passion for endo came through. And I want to be a speaker, [00:29:30] and I want to be a young dentist of the year, and I want to teach dental students.

Payman Langroudi: Never that person before. [00:29:35]

Awaz Sharief: I think it was there. I never really believed in it. You know, it was. And that gave me the [00:29:40] courage to be like, no, why not me? Like, why can’t I be young dentist of the year? Why can’t I speak even though, [00:29:45] like I never spoken anywhere, but I’m like, I have a passion and I know this will benefit people. And actually I got so many [00:29:50] people coming to me. This one lady, she was like, do you know what? That was so amazing. After I did my talk in one of my conferences, [00:29:55] she was like, you know, it’s making me so emotional. Like, I, we need more dentists like you with this [00:30:00] passion that you have. And and I’m like, I’m so glad I went ahead with it and believed in myself because the [00:30:05] old me would have been like, oh, who am I to to speak at a conference? Like I’m not even a specialist, you know? [00:30:10] Um, so, so much good came out of it. And then I was like, I struggled as a dental student, you know, I told you [00:30:15] I resat the year and because of my clinical side. And then it just clicked for me and I was like, you [00:30:20] know, unfortunately back, you know, nine, ten years ago when I was a dental student, I didn’t feel like I got a lot of [00:30:25] support from the tutors. It was very much like they wanted to mark you down. They were trying to find something that [00:30:30] you were doing wrong. And so that that sparked a passion within me. I want to teach now. I [00:30:35] want to be that mentor or that coach or that tutor that I never got.

Awaz Sharief: So [00:30:40] then I was like, I want to teach dental, you know, foundation dentists. So I’m actually teaching them, um, [00:30:45] on their endodontics on their study days. I recently got a job teaching dental [00:30:50] students at Manchester Dental Hospital. So all of that sparked from they were all there, [00:30:55] by the way, I always had this passion, but by going through this, it was like it came up to the surface. [00:31:00] And because I was able to fully feel it, like, yeah, I really want this. And when you fully feel something, [00:31:05] you know, the law of manifestation, when you can really feel it and feel like it’s yours, I’m like, yeah, [00:31:10] I’m just going to go after it. So I was emailing and chasing and calling and doing whatever I needed to do to actually [00:31:15] make it a reality. So actually accelerated all the dreams that I already had. And some of them I had actually suppressed, [00:31:20] all because of the Break-Up that I had. Um, and that’s what really inspired [00:31:25] me to want to share my story, because, I mean, I know, like, as dentists, we’re not we’re not immune to divorce [00:31:30] and we’re not immune to, like, relationship issues. And maybe it’s not something we really do talk about, but it doesn’t [00:31:35] have to be, you know, going back to faith. Like, it doesn’t have to be the worst thing in the world. And actually, for me, it was [00:31:40] a major breakthrough. And I’m seeing a side and a version of me that’s so much better than [00:31:45] who I was before I actually got into that relationship.

Payman Langroudi: Was there an element of, I mean, as [00:31:50] a woman firstly, but as a middle eastern woman of of like you felt like a failure.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, [00:31:55] it.

Payman Langroudi: Must be right.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah I did.

Payman Langroudi: That’s an understandable emotion for.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. And [00:32:00] that’s it’s exactly why I stayed longer than I should have because I noticed it. Yeah, [00:32:05] I noticed it very early on, but then I was like, oh, what are people gonna think? Like, I just got married. I just [00:32:10] had my wedding. Um, and then. And then for me, I’m always a hard worker, and I’m like, I’m not bailing. Like, [00:32:15] I’m going to give this every last drop that I can, which is.

Payman Langroudi: Just which is what a marriage is, right? Yeah. At [00:32:20] the end of the day, you’re saying that, aren’t you saying exactly.

Awaz Sharief: When you’re making.

Payman Langroudi: That commitment? Yeah. Yeah. So [00:32:25] I understand you work at it, right? The classic work at it thing. Yeah. So do you remember a defining [00:32:30] moment? Like a moment when you said, no, I’m going to get divorced. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: I [00:32:35] tried to leave several times, by the way. Oh, I did. And I think our families, like my family and his [00:32:40] family, really wanted to make it work. And I think that’s what kept us together for as long as we did. Um, and, [00:32:45] you know, they they were really sad, you know, really disheartened that it didn’t work out. But for me, I tried [00:32:50] to leave several times. Um, and then it was like, okay, let’s try this, let’s try that. Let’s do counselling. [00:32:55] We even did counselling. We did. We tried everything. So I can say, hand on heart, I gave it my all. [00:33:00] He tried really, you know, really hard as well. And it’s just it’s just one of those things. But I just remember at one point [00:33:05] my body just shut down and I was like, I can’t do this anymore. Don’t go anywhere near me. I [00:33:10] don’t trust you anymore. Like, it was just that for me was the cue that I had physical symptoms. [00:33:15]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. It was just, like, completely shut down. I can’t do this anymore. I just [00:33:20] yeah. And that was it. And then I remember my mom being really gutted because she was like, oh, but you have a son. [00:33:25] And I’m like, mom, I really I can’t even look him in the face anymore. Like, it just literally reached that point. [00:33:30] She was like, maybe it’s just a phase. And I thought, okay, let me wait it out. I waited a couple of months. Nothing changed. In [00:33:35] fact, if anything, it became stronger. Um, and that’s when I knew. Yeah. It’s not it’s not going to happen. [00:33:40]

Payman Langroudi: And you said there was an element of sort of narcissism in it.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. [00:33:45]

Payman Langroudi: What does that mean?

Awaz Sharief: So narcissism is a personality disorder [00:33:50] basically. Um, and it, it describes, um, some people who basically [00:33:55] lack empathy. Um, and there’s a lot of different elements to it. But essentially [00:34:00] what it is is that, um, I actually feel really sorry for, for narcissists because, [00:34:05] you know, they are at the core. They’re very insecure. And they [00:34:10] are they kind of hate themselves and they don’t really want to [00:34:15] admit to themselves. You know how much self-loathing I guess they have. So they create [00:34:20] this wall around themselves where even they are not honest with themselves [00:34:25] about who they are. And so they project this image of who they want to be. And [00:34:30] by the way.

Payman Langroudi: We were all probably doing some of that.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, of course.

Payman Langroudi: This is just an increased version [00:34:35] of what we’re all doing.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. No, of course, of course. Um, so [00:34:40] I think.

Payman Langroudi: So, but but then day to day, what does it mean to live with.

Awaz Sharief: So it’s kind of like [00:34:45] it’s almost living with someone who’s almost got like, a double life where they’re [00:34:50] with, with their with their friends and with their family. They’re a certain way. And with you, [00:34:55] they’re completely different. Um, and if you don’t know about this stuff, you’ll be [00:35:00] like, oh, but, like, they’re so nice to other people. Like, maybe it’s just me. Like, maybe if I just did this or I [00:35:05] just did that and, um, then then, you know, you kind of blame yourself and think, well, [00:35:10] there seems to be really nice to everyone else. Um, and the thing is, they keep changing the goalposts. [00:35:15] So it’s like, yeah, you know, I don’t like your cooking or I don’t like how you talk or I don’t like how you do this, [00:35:20] and you change those things.

Payman Langroudi: And the gaslighting thing.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. You change those things and then [00:35:25] something else just keeps coming up. And then you realise at one point, wait, it’s not me. Like [00:35:30] I’m doing everything I can and nothing I do is actually good enough. And it’s just like, you know, the criticisms, [00:35:35] the putdowns, feeling like belittled, feeling like nothing that you do is enough. Um, [00:35:40] and, you know, in some aspects I’m grateful because it actually [00:35:45] made me want to be the best version of myself. Like, I never knew how to cook before I got married. [00:35:50] Um, and then, like, now, I love cooking, I love baking, and I know if I’d have been with someone who wasn’t, you know, too [00:35:55] fussed about it. I probably would never have gone down that route. So, um, you know, I’m grateful for a lot of [00:36:00] the skills that it gave me, but it just reached a point where I was like, yeah, this is just taking the mick. Like, I’m doing everything and nothing I’m [00:36:05] doing is actually enough.

Payman Langroudi: So I think it’s a credit to you and to your kids. [00:36:10] Dad though, that that even with all of that, you kept it in [00:36:15] a sort of civilised sort of way, insomuch as the relationship between your child and your child’s [00:36:20] dad is still good, right?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, it’s very good. Yeah, that’s a really important thing.

Payman Langroudi: A really important thing, because. [00:36:25]

Awaz Sharief: He’s a great dad. He’s a great dad, and, you know, his son loves him so.

Payman Langroudi: And your son’s [00:36:30] also thriving. Yeah. He is. Yeah. Which is important. But often in these situations, the [00:36:35] parents, you know, obviously it’s a difficult situation. But parents don’t look out for their kid enough. [00:36:40] You know, the fight between the parents is so bad that the kid suffers. And [00:36:45] in your situation, it hasn’t happened as much. I mean, you know, it’s never going to be clean. Clean, right? But [00:36:50] yeah, it’s a.

Awaz Sharief: Civilised, you know.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a credit to you and the families, I guess.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. [00:36:55] Yeah, yeah. No. Of course. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: All right. Let’s talk about now as [00:37:00] far as Dental and what you’re going to do with this information here, [00:37:05] because the information is out there. But but you’re popularising this form of [00:37:10] endo. Yeah. So tell me about when you first lectured on it and how you felt and where [00:37:15] it was. And.

Awaz Sharief: You know, it was actually at the British Dental Conference. Um, and dentistry [00:37:20] in Birmingham.

Payman Langroudi: That’s the hardest, hardest place to lecture because there’s all that noise. Yeah. They give you [00:37:25] a little plasma screen.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Have you lectured before? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But to do your first lecture [00:37:30] there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just want to tell you that that is that is not what lecturing is about. Yeah. That that’s [00:37:35] the hardest, hardest, hardest. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: I really enjoyed, actually. But you know what? Like, the story [00:37:40] is, I was doing this research, like I told you, and I was like, I need to get this word out there. And I just had this vision. I’m going [00:37:45] to be speaking at the British Dental Conference. So I called and I emailed and [00:37:50] they were like, okay, yeah, you can talk, but you need to find a sponsor. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s what I was saying about is there a company [00:37:55] behind?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah. You need to. And then I’m like, where am I going to find a sponsor? And they’re like, well, you’re just gonna have to find someone.

Payman Langroudi: Right? [00:38:00]

Awaz Sharief: So. So I contacted Leptodon and they were like, oh, they were quoting, you [00:38:05] know, the conference. They were like, oh, it’s going to just for that, I think 45 minute session. They [00:38:10] were quoting like 2 or 3 grand and Septuagint is like, no, we’re not going to sponsor that. Like we don’t even know who [00:38:15] you are. Yeah. Like you don’t you’ve not even built your credibility. And I just thought, right okay. And then I tried [00:38:20] the European. No. What was it? The British endodontic society. But they’d already given their slots [00:38:25] to someone else. And then I tried to get in contact. I think dental directory were doing one as well. And [00:38:30] my dentist was doing one. But they’re all giving their slots away. So I’m like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And then, um, [00:38:35] the lady on the phone that I kept calling, she saw how passionate I was. And you know what she said to me? She [00:38:40] said, do you know what? Call us. Like like message us or contact us. A month before, [00:38:45] because sometimes some people drop out. Sometimes we have, um, empty slots. And if no one else takes them, we’ll [00:38:50] just give them to you. Like, we can see how passionate you are. So that’s what I did a month before. I’m like, you know, have you got any empty slots? [00:38:55] And then. So that’s when they gave me my first session, so I didn’t even have to have a sponsor. So then I went there [00:39:00] and I got such good feedback. I got so many people telling me, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Getting my email [00:39:05] address. Can you send me the lecture slides? I had people asking me if I was doing a course on this, and [00:39:10] I just laughed it off and I was like, me, of course, like I’m still trying to figure everything out myself.

Awaz Sharief: But then I [00:39:15] actually spoke at the British Dental Conference this year as well, and I also got a lot [00:39:20] of people asking me the same thing. And then I got so many delegates coming up to me and they’re saying, like, you know, you really should do a course, [00:39:25] that I actually started to take it more seriously. So then I went and I [00:39:30] contacted the Max course team, which is like the deanery. They they organise their own [00:39:35] um, courses. Um, and they gave me a slot. So I’m actually going to be doing [00:39:40] a course on the 2nd of December, which, um, you know, I’m, I’m really excited for because [00:39:45] it’s going to be hands on. So the first session is going to be like, um, the theory. So we’re going to talk about vital pulp [00:39:50] therapy. We’re going to talk about when do you do a pulpotomy when you don’t when do you just do. Because vital [00:39:55] pulp therapy is about managing deeply carious teeth as well. It’s all about maintaining the vitality of the [00:40:00] pulp. And then in the afternoon, we’re going to be doing a pulpotomy on an anterior tooth, a premolar [00:40:05] and a molar. So, um, yeah, I’m really excited for that. I never, ever thought that it would lead to [00:40:10] this. Like, I just had a vision and my heart was like, spoke. And I just listened to it and I was like, okay, I need [00:40:15] to do this. And I never thought it would lead to this. So I’m so happy.

Payman Langroudi: It’s such an important topic though. [00:40:20]

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people were fascinated just the same way that I was, and they were like, yeah, what bird [00:40:25] did you use? And what about this? And they were giving me, you know, clinical scenarios. And that’s why.

Payman Langroudi: You know, [00:40:30] like, I’m not a dentist anymore. Yeah. The two things that about dentistry that give [00:40:35] me PTSD now are, number one, the situation you described. Yeah. [00:40:40] Because there’s no way around that situation. Yeah. Deep filling right. Deep filling.

Awaz Sharief: No. Damned if you do, damned if [00:40:45] you don’t.

Payman Langroudi: No pain. And it’s the risk of causing pain and okay, the only way around it is to warn the patient of [00:40:50] the risk of causing it, but it’s. Yeah, it’s really not a nice, nice thing to happen. Exactly. And the other one is, [00:40:55] you know, when a patient just says, I don’t like the way they look. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like [00:41:00] there’s there’s no way of arguing it. I mean, of course you can temporise and you can make them look [00:41:05] exactly the same. You can get patients to sign off. But in the end, whatever the cosmetic [00:41:10] treatment was, if the patient just says, don’t like them. Yeah. There’s really nowhere to go. [00:41:15] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Apart from replacing them or changing them? Oh, I’ve had that.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I mean, it’s [00:41:20] a cosmetic dentist. Sort of happens. It happens. It happens a lot where it happens a lot [00:41:25] to cosmetic dentists. They do the work. Patient loves it. Goes home. Family member. [00:41:30] Yeah. Makes a comment. You know. You know what it is about love. All sorts of love. Like [00:41:35] one of the big aspects of love. People define it as loving people’s weaknesses rather [00:41:40] than their strengths. You know, like from from the movies. It feels like, oh, you know, the girl’s pretty. She’s [00:41:45] kind, she’s cool. Whatever the. Yeah. But actually, like, if, if your [00:41:50] if your uncle has got spaces between his teeth, That is what. That is who you love. [00:41:55] The guy with the spaces between his teeth. Yeah. Once he fixes it. You don’t think of that [00:42:00] as your uncle anymore?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. And so it’s not. It’s not like a malicious thing. [00:42:05] It’s part of the human condition of the family. So what a lot of cosmetics dentists do is actually warn the patient [00:42:10] that that’s going to happen. Right. Okay. Yeah, it’s. [00:42:15] Unfortunately, I feel like the lawyers have won in the industry. You know, that’s the thing. All [00:42:20] right, so in the meantime, you’re practising in my dentist.

Awaz Sharief: Yes, [00:42:25] yes.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re getting internal referrals for endo. Yes. So you’re doing endo [00:42:30] all day or are you doing.

Awaz Sharief: No I do, I do general dentistry. But then I get referrals for endo as well. I actually [00:42:35] do like I do composite bonding and I love anything to do with like minimally invasive. I love, you know, saving [00:42:40] teeth is my thing. So even when it comes to, um, minimally, minimally invasive [00:42:45] dentistry. So like, um, aligning, bleaching, bonding, you know, I like that, all of that as well. I do [00:42:50] that not a lot, but I do like to dabble into it because it’s all about you get to preserve the tooth for as much [00:42:55] as you know as much as possible. So I love doing that stuff.

Payman Langroudi: So tell me, clinically in a day, what’s a typical day? Is [00:43:00] there an endo every day or is there not.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. So there’s at least or at least a consult [00:43:05] or something. Um, or.

Payman Langroudi: A retreat every week. Is there a retreat every week?

Awaz Sharief: No, [00:43:10] to be honest, especially with internal referrals, I find that in the practice I’m working with my dentist, I do get [00:43:15] retreats, but not not as often. It’s it’s mainly just they don’t like doing the endo, so they just send it over to me. They [00:43:20] send the.

Payman Langroudi: Retreat to to the Endodontist.

Awaz Sharief: No, they do send retreats as well. Um, I [00:43:25] just find that there’s a lot of them. I do get a lot of referrals for just the, you know, just the regular endos. Yeah. [00:43:30]

Payman Langroudi: That’s nice. Yeah. So then in a typical day, you’ve got, let’s just say one endo and then [00:43:35] just like any other dentist, few exams and then an aligning that sort of thing. Is that [00:43:40] your typical. Yeah. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Clinical day. Yeah. Yeah. So you know extraction you know odd extraction. Odd um filling. You know, [00:43:45] like composite bonding whatever. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And is the, is the referral internal to the building or do [00:43:50] they send from other my dentists?

Awaz Sharief: They send from other nearby my dentist practices as well. Yeah, [00:43:55] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So you could even increase that, right? If you tell them, look, I’m up for way more. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: So the [00:44:00] thing is a lot of people are doing endo now, so, um, we do. I’ve, I’ve done like lunch and learns [00:44:05] and, like, nearby practices and, um, because I just find that when you go into the practice and they see you and you’re able [00:44:10] to connect with them, they’re much more likely to refer into you. So, um, but then you’ve got like, other practices [00:44:15] where they’ve got someone who’s doing endo. And so when I asked if I can go and they’re like, oh, [00:44:20] well, we already have someone who’s doing endo within the practice. So, um, yeah, I try to, you know, try [00:44:25] to just get my name out there on social media as well. Um, and, you know, at the conferences. [00:44:30]

Payman Langroudi: So, so look, with enlightened, we do a lot of work with my dentist here. And I went [00:44:35] into it thinking one thing and came out of it thinking something totally different. The dentists are actually [00:44:40] much more happy than I would have imagined in in my dentist.

Awaz Sharief: What did [00:44:45] you think? That they were unhappy as a corporate?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Awaz Sharief: I’m really happy with them. I’ve been with them since I qualified [00:44:50] and they’ve kept me happy.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And yeah, I mean, one thing is I think they’ve changed. Yeah, [00:44:55] but ten years ago they didn’t understand. The most important thing is to keep the dentist happy.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, [00:45:00] but they understand that now.

Payman Langroudi: Losing a dentist is the most expensive thing that can happen to you. Exactly right. [00:45:05] Yeah, but they’re really on to it now. And I went in thinking, Morale’s going to be really low or [00:45:10] there’s going to be, I don’t know, people doing their first ever job in the UK or something where they have to be [00:45:15] there and then they’re going to leave straight away. But, you know, you come across a lot of people who’ve liked their whole [00:45:20] careers been at my dentist. Yeah. And and the one someone told me and I never [00:45:25] this never used to happen back in my day where someone would choose to leave an [00:45:30] independent practice and go to a corporate. Yeah, yeah. That would never happen, that no one would do it by choice. [00:45:35] Right back in the day. Back in the day? Yeah, someone told me. And someone like I know her well because she [00:45:40] does a lot of enlightened and all that. And she was saying, yeah, um, I’m going to my dentist [00:45:45] because I know what I’m going to get there. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s a really interesting point. Like it’s like it’s like, [00:45:50] you know, you go to a McDonald’s, you know what you’re going to get or a Starbucks, you know what you’re going to get. Yeah. [00:45:55] Yeah. Whereas if you go to an independent practice you can’t be sure. Yeah. Yeah. And however [00:46:00] much you research, you never know what a practice is like until you’re actually in it.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. I’ve never actually [00:46:05] worked with an independent practice. I’ve just found I just found the corporates have just really looked after me, you know. [00:46:10] And I remember very early on in my career, like, I bargained for quite a high UDA rate. And that’s, that’s how [00:46:15] they kept me in, to be honest. And my dentists were very accommodating. And I think they realised that actually if we [00:46:20] keep the dentist, then that is going to be the most profitable for them as a business.

Payman Langroudi: Definitely, definitely. [00:46:25] And it is. It’s an important way of running your practice anyway. Yeah. As a as a principle. [00:46:30] Yeah. The best thing would be really just to think of your customer as your associate. Yeah. [00:46:35] You know, it’s one of the ways of running a practice. Yeah. So. All right. Um, what [00:46:40] are your plans going forward? Do you think you’re going to open your own one day, or do you know what? [00:46:45]

Awaz Sharief: I don’t think I’ll ever will. Really? Yeah. It’s just. It’s just not my thing. Like just the stress. Like, I think [00:46:50] I love the idea of doing my own practice and, like, interior design. And I had this vision [00:46:55] once because I know, like, patients hate endo, but I was like, I’d have this practice and they [00:47:00] could have like a foot massage whilst they’re having their endo done. Yeah. And so I had this vision and then I just [00:47:05] thought, like, there’s just so much to it that I don’t know, I just, I feel like I’m liking the [00:47:10] education side of dentistry a bit more, you know, like speaking and, you know, doing the doing courses. [00:47:15] Hopefully, you know, more courses in the future. Like I’m leaning more towards that. And, [00:47:20] um, as well, because of my own experiences, I’m getting developing a side passion [00:47:25] for I’d love to be a trauma coach and help, like other women in particular, who’ve gone through narcissistic [00:47:30] abuse or just any kind of trauma. And just, just I want to motivate and inspire women [00:47:35] to live their best life. And, um, for, for them not to be held back because [00:47:40] I believe, you know, as humans, as human beings, we all have gifts.

Awaz Sharief: We all have talents. Everybody’s got unique [00:47:45] talents and gifts that they can give to the world, and it’s just a shame that so many people die and they don’t know what [00:47:50] their talent is, and they’ve not left their mark in the world. And so I’ve just just through my [00:47:55] experiences, I’m just like, I’d love to be a source of inspiration, motivation, like a site. This is like a side [00:48:00] thing that I’d want to do, like and just start off, you know, very small doing coaching, helping women in [00:48:05] particular women, just because I’m a woman and, you know, I’m I know, I know how hard it can be and I can really relate [00:48:10] to other women. And so that’s the kind of thing that I want to go towards. But actually the the [00:48:15] idea of me having my own practice is just I can’t really see it. Like if I’m looking ten, 20 [00:48:20] years, I can’t really see it. Yeah. More towards the education side of things and coaching [00:48:25] and teaching I guess.

Payman Langroudi: Why not? Why not? Yeah. Um, I had Jason Smithson on [00:48:30] here and he was saying running a practice and being an international. He’s an international [00:48:35] lecturer. Yeah. Running a practice and being an international lecturer is impossible. Yeah. Unless you’re [00:48:40] willing to give up your family life, have a divorce or something? Yeah, yeah. Which I don’t want to do. Yeah. Um, [00:48:45] and there’s a there’s a lot to be said for that. Like knowing. Knowing what your strength is. Yeah. Um, [00:48:50] I, Jaz Gulati, you know. You know him from Protrusive. No. Um, he’s [00:48:55] brilliant. And he’s got a podcast, and. And he was saying he never wants to have a practice. [00:49:00] Yeah. Because he wants to focus on his podcast. And he’s an associate. Good for.

Awaz Sharief: Him. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:49:05] I can think of others. I can think of others as well. So it’s not a bad way [00:49:10] to be. It’s not a bad way to be. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: It’s just it’s just never really appealed to me. Like I said, I like the idea of it, but I’m [00:49:15] just like to put the time and I don’t know, like what? What would be the benefits?

Payman Langroudi: Cash. [00:49:20]

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. I mean, you mean as in, like, just passive income?

Payman Langroudi: Like, it’s not only cash though. The the [00:49:25] main reason people start their own practice is control.

Awaz Sharief: They can do things their way. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:49:30] And I’ve seen people in really brilliant situations who still go ahead and start their own [00:49:35] practice because of the control. They want a particular patient journey.

Awaz Sharief: Right, [00:49:40] right, right.

Payman Langroudi: And the only way to do that really is to have your own practice. Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:49:45] on this pod, we like to talk about mistakes. Yeah. So based on, you know, black [00:49:50] box thinking where the plane crashes and they want to find out what went [00:49:55] wrong rather than rather than who’s to blame when I say clinical mistakes, [00:50:00] what comes to mind? What what can you share with us? Something that someone else can learn from?

Awaz Sharief: Okay, so, [00:50:05] um, I think the biggest clinical mistake I’ve ever made, I was actually a dental student, and, [00:50:10] um, I was it was my first mos, um, [00:50:15] and I, I just remember, like, researching [00:50:20] so hard and planning so hard for it. And then, um, I was doing [00:50:25] like, we had, I had the x rays, and I had already planned out how I’m going to be [00:50:30] designing the flap and then, oh my gosh, it’s just giving me flashbacks now. So [00:50:35] then I was I had the scalpel and then I was trying to, um, to [00:50:40] outline the like on the actual patient outline, the, um, the flap. [00:50:45] And then I was with my with my tutor, and then I was pushing down and it wasn’t I think [00:50:50] I hit like a bony prominence. It was like a lower five. And then my tutor was like, no, harder. And [00:50:55] I pushed harder, and the patient’s lip actually ripped, and there was blood [00:51:00] everywhere. And I’m like, I’m a dental student. Oh my gosh. I burst into [00:51:05] tears. And then I just left the room. And then I just remember the patient jumping up in his chair, like [00:51:10] like you just don’t expect it. And there’s just blood everywhere. And I just burst into tears. I left [00:51:15] the room, thank God, and I was with it because I was with like a clinical partner. She’s the nicest girl. [00:51:20] She’s called rower. If you’re listening to this. Thank you. Rower. She was so supportive. She’s doing well. [00:51:25] Um, anyway. And she was so supportive. And then I was just crying, and I went to the other room. I was [00:51:30] crying, and she was like, no, it’s going to be okay. Don’t worry about it. Like it happens. You’re a student.

Payman Langroudi: Who stitched it [00:51:35] up.

Awaz Sharief: The the actual, um, the tutor who was a consultant, and then someone else came as well. I think [00:51:40] another consultant came up and and then, you know, and I remember them telling me, [00:51:45] you know, that the patient might sue. Um, and so I was expecting the worst. And then, [00:51:50] and then the consultant came up to me and said, how, you know, how how how how are you coping with everything? How’s everything [00:51:55] going? I’m obviously traumatised. And he said, you know, the patient, every time I come to see him, all he does is ask [00:52:00] about you. He wants to know whether you’re okay. And he didn’t really sue me or, you know, he didn’t do anything. He was just [00:52:05] concerned about me as a student. He felt sorry for me and she was like, don’t worry about it. We’ve stitched it up. You can’t even [00:52:10] hardly see anything. Like it always looks worse. You know, when there’s so much blood everywhere, it always looks worse than it actually [00:52:15] is. And I’ve actually saw the patient after that. That was my biggest clinical mistake. I know now for a finger [00:52:20] rest, because that’s why obviously my my finger slipped. So yeah, even.

Payman Langroudi: As I [00:52:25] mean that was a good one. That’s that’s a juicy one. But I’m not gonna I’m not gonna allow it [00:52:30] because you were a student. It doesn’t really count.

Awaz Sharief: Okay. So you went under the clinical mistake. [00:52:35] Yeah. Okay. So. So this was a recent one. Oh, good. Um, [00:52:40] so I’m like, I’m just just, you know, I told you, I kind of do a bit of Invisalign. Yeah. This patient comes into me, [00:52:45] and she’s a severe class two, and she’s like to me. Yeah. Um, I want I [00:52:50] want straight teeth. And she comes in. She’s not. She’s never seen a dentist for. She’s not seen a dentist for a while. So [00:52:55] there’s a lot of, um, maintenance that we needed to do. So there’s a lot of caries, a lot of things that, you know, her gum [00:53:00] disease and everything. So I was like, okay, let’s stabilise everything. And then if everything’s stable, then we can consider cosmetic work. [00:53:05] So she actually actually did really well. She came back to me three months later. Everything was stable. And [00:53:10] then I gave her the options of the, um, she wanted Invisalign. And I said, look, you know, [00:53:15] um, because she was a severe class two. I said, you’re going to need extractions to to correct the crowding [00:53:20] and to improve your profile. But she was like, no, because her her workplace was actually down the road [00:53:25] from us. And she just wanted it was convenient for her to come to us. So she was like, please just do the best that you can do. [00:53:30]

Awaz Sharief: You know, anything would be better than what I’ve got. So I’m just like, naive. I took the case on, I wanted to help [00:53:35] and and then took the case on and the thing I’ve done Invisalign on my own teeth. [00:53:40] And the thing is what you would have been really happy with, you know, at the beginning of your journey, by [00:53:45] the time you get to the end, you’re just like, you get very picky. You become really picky. So I went through that [00:53:50] with my own teeth and I’m a dentist, so I kind of had that at the back of my mind. But her [00:53:55] teeth look massively different. You know, with the aligners we did, we did like I think 14 aligners. She knew [00:54:00] that I couldn’t correct the Overjet completely. We did have a reduction in the overjet and showed her the clincheck. [00:54:05] She was happy. Let’s go ahead. Whatever. And and then she comes to the end of it. She’s like, oh, my teeth are still protruding. [00:54:10] And I said, okay, we can do some additional aligners, but there’s only so much that we can do because I’ve already done quite a lot of IPR. [00:54:15] And so then I did, we did the additional aligners and I showed her the clincheck [00:54:20] and then she was a little bit more fussy this time she was like, no, I’m not happy.

Awaz Sharief: I want a full refund. And and [00:54:25] then at the time I was just like, um, I was like, no, I put a lot of time and, you know, I [00:54:30] made it so clear to her at the beginning, she just said, do your best and I did my best. And you [00:54:35] know you can change your mind, but that comes at a cost. Yeah. Um, but she wasn’t having any of it. [00:54:40] She was threatening legal advice and, you know, whatever. So then in the end, I was like, you know what? Just give her the whole the full [00:54:45] damn refund. Um, and I did. And, you know, she’s she’s happy about it now. But the [00:54:50] main thing that I, that I learned from that is to, you know, if you, if you have I think [00:54:55] sometimes it takes for you to go through these cases for you to realise what is outside of your remit and what isn’t, and [00:55:00] going through something like, you know, something that would have, should have been a specialist, you know, job to begin with. [00:55:05] And even if the patient, however much they try to convince you, you have to be the one to say no, this is out of my [00:55:10] remit. It’s in your best interest to go elsewhere. Yeah. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And I think, you know, [00:55:15] what happens with with experience. You start to feel it. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: There’s certain [00:55:20] it’s almost like a people, like a spider sense, you know, the way you look. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Like a gut feeling that you should [00:55:25] go ahead with this, I should.

Payman Langroudi: Something’s up here. Yeah. Um, you know, [00:55:30] like, you’ve got those classic situations of Patient walks in with 20 dentures. And you know that’s. But there’s. [00:55:35] There’s loads of levels of that. Yeah. Um, and even in my short career, [00:55:40] I remember a couple of situations where I feel like that was a close one. I’m glad I got out of that [00:55:45] one. Yeah. What do you do regarding childcare and all that? Does your mum look after your child?

Awaz Sharief: So my [00:55:50] son is actually at nursery now, so I actually work around his nursery times. I work ten till two. They’re amazing hours. [00:55:55]

Payman Langroudi: Are they cool with that?

Awaz Sharief: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Love that. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: No. Amazing I love I really hope I never have to [00:56:00] change those hours. Um. So. Yeah, before my mum was. Was helping me a lot. But then [00:56:05] he started school in January, so I just work around his nursery times.

Payman Langroudi: So on [00:56:10] the subject of women and teaching this question [00:56:15] of why? Why aren’t more women teaching dentistry? Good [00:56:20] question. It’s come up a lot on this podcast. Yeah, yeah. And people will say [00:56:25] things, different things. Yeah. People will say, oh, men run the organisations And [00:56:30] he only asked their buddies to come lecture. Right. I think there’s an element of that, [00:56:35] you know. Fine. Yeah. But there’s other people say men [00:56:40] sort of put themselves up in a confidence way more [00:56:45] than women do.

Awaz Sharief: I agree.

Payman Langroudi: Do you agree with that?

Awaz Sharief: I agree with that. Because like I said, through my story, [00:56:50] you.

Payman Langroudi: Had similar story.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So so then when you say help women here. Yeah. [00:56:55] What would you say regarding that question for a woman? I mean, there’s there’s plenty of talented dentists, [00:57:00] women dentists out there right now. Yeah. And teaching. I mean, at the end of the day, there’s. [00:57:05] It’s not a magic thing, right? Teaching is about, you know, your view on [00:57:10] what’s out there. Yeah. So let’s say we’ve got someone who’s a really good, like, knows [00:57:15] what she’s doing. Would love to take a day off a month to teach. Yeah. But just doesn’t [00:57:20] think she has never been asked. Yeah. Yeah. You were asked. Yeah. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: To be honest, I was [00:57:25] the proactive one. I think maybe women are just waiting for that opportunity.

Payman Langroudi: What advice are you going to give? What advice [00:57:30] do you give to women like that?

Awaz Sharief: So I would say that if you have I mean, it starts with a passion. [00:57:35] Like if you have a passion for something and you like something or you want to help or you know, whatever [00:57:40] it is, and don’t be afraid to be proactive and search for these opportunities yourself, because [00:57:45] that’s what I had to do. You know, I had a vision I wanted to teach and I went after it.

Payman Langroudi: What is it that’s holding you [00:57:50] back? Like, when is it like the confidence?

Awaz Sharief: It’s. You just feel like, you know, the older me would have [00:57:55] been like. Like, who are you? Like, what do you actually know? Like, you always feel like. Maybe there’s more that I need to learn [00:58:00] about this subject. I’m not an expert. I’m not a specialist. You know, maybe until I become a consultant or whatever, [00:58:05] then I can teach. And maybe that’s what women feel like. They have to reach that level before they can actually start teaching, [00:58:10] when actually it comes from a place of passion. And if you’re passionate about something, that passion shines [00:58:15] through. And if you feel like you have value to add a new you, you know that [00:58:20] this will be of benefit. I would say look at it from that place, rather than how higher [00:58:25] up are you in the hierarchy and how much experience you have under your belt. And, um, [00:58:30] you know what? What kind of status do you have? Um, it’s more about what value do you do you [00:58:35] believe that? Do you believe that? You can you can offer that kind of help, you know, because I think women can be more [00:58:40] sympathetic. You know, I’m just generalising. Yeah. You know, we tend to be, like, the more of the emotional ones, [00:58:45] more sympathetic, more caring, whatever. Um, and we need that kind of. We need teachers [00:58:50] like that. You know, we need, you know, mentors, coaches, whatever. Like, just going back to my own [00:58:55] experience, being a Dental student, I wish there was someone to hold my hand and say to me, you got this. [00:59:00] I know you can do this. And I hope that I could be that for someone, for someone [00:59:05] else who’s going through that same journey.

Awaz Sharief: And I could be the one to be like, look, I know you can do this because nobody really said [00:59:10] that to me. It was almost like waiting for me to fail so that they could mark me down. Like, that’s the kind of energy that I got. [00:59:15] Rather than, what can I do to help you? I wish somebody had said to me, I’ll go out of my [00:59:20] way. I’ll sacrifice my lunch. Maybe you need a 1 to 1, because I did a postgraduate certificate in medical education [00:59:25] and everyone has their own learning styles. Some people thrive with 1 to 1. Some people are [00:59:30] okay with group teaching. I know for me personally, I thrive with 1 to 1 and I realise that [00:59:35] later on. So I would love to be that person who would be proactive and see someone who’s struggling [00:59:40] as a dental student and be like, look, I can see that, you know, consistently on the clinic because I was like that. I was always [00:59:45] the last one on clinic. And do you need any help? You know, I’m here to help you. I can I can [00:59:50] do like a 1 to 1 session with you. Maybe that’s your kind of learning style. And I think maybe, maybe women [00:59:55] are more likely to do that. I don’t I don’t know, like, I know I would, um, so I would say [01:00:00] you as a woman, don’t just look at your credentials and don’t look at your experience, but just look at what [01:00:05] you could what other value that you could offer in the teaching sphere.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting [01:00:10] because let’s say when you when you come to start teaching, there’ll be 20 delegates [01:00:15] in the room. Yeah. And a couple of them will be slower.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, [01:00:20] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Than the rest. It’s always, it’s always like that. There’s a, there’s a couple faster than everyone. Yeah, [01:00:25] of course there’s a couple slower than everyone. And then the general in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. And where you put your [01:00:30] attention actually is quite. It’s quite an important question. Right. Because sometimes you think we’re [01:00:35] the ones who are slower. They’ll never get it or something. And yeah, you’re right. They’re the ones who need more attention.

Awaz Sharief: Exactly. [01:00:40]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Should focus more on them. Yeah. It’s a very good point. I [01:00:45] mean, this this question of men and women and diversity in general. Yeah. [01:00:50] Diversity in general is a good idea in organisations. Yeah. And [01:00:55] whether the organisation is a teaching organisation or a Dental or a business organisation. If [01:01:00] everyone’s reacting the same to everything, then you’re not you’re not going to be able to move quickly enough to [01:01:05] to change. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s my feeling on it. All right. Well, let’s let’s get to our [01:01:10] final questions.

Awaz Sharief: Okay. Go ahead.

Payman Langroudi: Fantasy dinner party. Three [01:01:15] guests, dead or alive. Who would you have?

Awaz Sharief: Okay, [01:01:20] so the first one I would say would be, did [01:01:25] you say fancy fantasy?

Payman Langroudi: Fantasy?

Awaz Sharief: Fantasy. Dinner party.

Payman Langroudi: As in Dead or Alive. The guests can [01:01:30] be deadly.

Awaz Sharief: I see, I see. Dinner party. Okay, so, um, I would love to, um, [01:01:35] have a dinner party with my dad. Oh. Um. Yeah. Because, um, you know, like I said, [01:01:40] my mom did such a great job, and I just. I look at my mom, and I’m like. He did well, like, he chose. He chose a good [01:01:45] woman to look after his kids. And, you know, I just love to just catch up with him and be like, you know, look at me [01:01:50] now, you know, and and my brother and, you know, you, you chose well in, you know, choosing, [01:01:55] choosing our mom to look after us. Look how hard she worked. And, um, you know, just for him to be happy. [01:02:00] Because actually, when I became a dentist, my mom said, I believe in this stuff, by the way. Like, my mom said that she had a dream, that [01:02:05] she saw my dad in her dream, and and she was telling him, oh, like, do you [01:02:10] know, like, um, your daughter’s become a dentist. And he was so happy and he was smiling, you know? And so [01:02:15] I’d love to, because he was an engineer and, you know, he was he was hard working as well. So I think he would be so proud [01:02:20] of his kids and how far they’d come, so I’d just love to have a catch up and just let him know about how everything [01:02:25] is and how much I miss him. And and actually, when I was going through my divorce, um, [01:02:30] one of the again, one of one of the suppressed feelings that I had was that I actually miss my dad, [01:02:35] but I never gave myself the opportunity to feel that because I’m like, I don’t even remember him. But, [01:02:40] you know, just the feeling of, you know, like they used to say that I was like, daddy’s little girl. And, you know, just back in the day. And [01:02:45] I see, like, videos of how, like, you know, my dad would play around with me.

Payman Langroudi: Your dad knew you as long as you’ve [01:02:50] known your son.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: That’s important. Right? Yeah. My my uncle [01:02:55] passed away when his daughter. My cousin was three. Yeah. And, um. [01:03:00] It breaks my heart that my cousin doesn’t remember him because he loved [01:03:05] that girl. He loved that girl.

Awaz Sharief: That’s what people said about me and my dad.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. And [01:03:10] it. And she doesn’t remember. Right. She doesn’t. Neither do I. She was three, right? Yeah. [01:03:15] And just breaks my heart, you know, just that fact breaks my heart.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Yeah. And [01:03:20] it didn’t actually at the time made me really emotional because going through that divorce, you know, some it was, [01:03:25] you know, I was just going through like a mixture of emotions because I never felt like I had that fatherly figure, you know, like growing [01:03:30] up. So for me, like I go, you know, I go to his grave more often than I used to. And, and [01:03:35] because I never felt that connection before, and it’s because I never allowed myself to feel like I missed him. Because logically, you think, [01:03:40] how can I miss him when I don’t remember him? But I think, you know you, I don’t know, I guess it’s just the metaphysical [01:03:45] where you just emotionally, I feel emotionally connected to him. So I’d love to have that, [01:03:50] you know, that kind of chat with him. And just to catch up of how much I missed him and, you know. Yeah, [01:03:55] basically. So he’s he’s one person and the other person that I would [01:04:00] um, is I don’t know if this counts, but my son like 20 years down the line. Does [01:04:05] that count?

Payman Langroudi: I like that. I like that.

Awaz Sharief: I’d love to. I’d love to see, like, what career [01:04:10] path has he gone through and how has. Because I do you know you get mum guilt. I’m like does has [01:04:15] this divorce impacted him. How is it going to impact him? What kind of boy is he going to grow up to be? And obviously I [01:04:20] can only do my best, but I’d love to see what he’s like 20 years down the line and what kind of things he remembers, [01:04:25] because I love to create memories with him. But how much of it does he actually remember? I don’t know, so [01:04:30] I’d love to have that.

Payman Langroudi: That’s that’s a new one. I did have someone saying, oh, my 16 [01:04:35] year old self in as one of the guests, but, but but but that’s a new one. [01:04:40] Good good good. And the third.

Awaz Sharief: Guest and the final guest would be the Prophet [01:04:45] Muhammad. Um, yeah. Peace be upon him. So, Prophet Muhammad, he’s a very, um, [01:04:50] um, uh, you know, very important aspect of our of our of [01:04:55] our, um, religion. And I’ve heard so much about him. I’ve read so much about him. I’d love to [01:05:00] actually speak to him in person and just see, because there’s so much written work about how his [01:05:05] character was and how his, you know, behaviour was. I’d love to see that in action. I’d love to to [01:05:10] let him know how much he’s inspired and, and, you know, inspired so many Muslims as a result of him. [01:05:15] So I’d love to have, you know, just a just a catch up with him, I guess.

Payman Langroudi: My goodness, [01:05:20] you are aiming higher then.

Awaz Sharief: You’ve not had anyone say that yet I have.

Payman Langroudi: Actually I have. [01:05:25]

Awaz Sharief: You have you.

Payman Langroudi: Have. He’s he’s shown his face before. Okay. Podcast. [01:05:30] The final question. It’s a deathbed question.

Awaz Sharief: Right. [01:05:35]

Payman Langroudi: And I know you’re nowhere near your deathbed, but let’s just imagine in many, many, [01:05:40] many years to come, you’ve got your great grandchildren around you, right? [01:05:45] Three pieces of advice to leave for your family and for the world. What would they [01:05:50] be?

Awaz Sharief: Okay, so for me, faith is a very big part of, of my life. So it would be hold on [01:05:55] to your faith. Um, and the second part would be to, um, [01:06:00] be be true to, you know, be authentic, be true to yourself. And for me, the [01:06:05] biggest lesson that I’ve learned is being, you know, your emotions are who you are. Basically, [01:06:10] your emotions are your heart’s way of speaking to you and you understanding more about yourself. So, um, [01:06:15] that would be that would be my number one. If I could send a message out to the whole world, [01:06:20] it would be that, like, listen to your emotions, listen to your feelings, be true and authentic to yourself. Um, [01:06:25] and the third thing that I would say is, um, [01:06:30] um, I can’t think. Now, on my [01:06:35] deathbed, I think I can only think of two. Is that okay?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But, you know, be kind. [01:06:40] Enjoy. You know, like these sort of.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. Be kind to others. Be kind. Be [01:06:45] kind to others and to yourself. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I’ll [01:06:50] take that. I’ll take that. No. It’s been a massive pleasure. My advice [01:06:55] to you in this moment that you’re sort of free flowing with emotion and manifestation. [01:07:00] Yeah. And energy. Yeah. Remember that. It [01:07:05] won’t always be like this. Yeah, yeah. Not not to put a downer on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But [01:07:10] to say, look, if you really want to.

[TRANSITION]: Be a.

Payman Langroudi: Counsellor of women. Yeah. Go go go. [01:07:15] Jump in. Yes! Jump in. Now, while you’ve got everything aligned. Yeah. [01:07:20] I mean, I remember being your age and wanting to bloody change the world, man. Yeah, it doesn’t [01:07:25] like that now. It doesn’t last sometimes, like, you know, if only life was constantly [01:07:30] like that, man. Yeah. So so go for it. Now. In all directions with teaching. [01:07:35] Yeah. And teaching. Dentistry. Teaching. The other thing.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, [01:07:40] yeah. The trauma. Yeah. Because for me, it’s just if we can raise a generation of kids and I think they’re already starting to do [01:07:45] that now, where where the. My friend was saying, like at nursery, they’re teaching them to say affirmations like, I [01:07:50] am worthy, I am enough. Yeah. That kind of thing. You know, if we can raise a generation of of [01:07:55] kids or, you know, adults who have such strong self-esteem and strong sense [01:08:00] of who they are, and they trust themselves and they they are unapologetically, you know, [01:08:05] authentic, then you there’s no room in the world for abusers because once [01:08:10] you’re that authentic, you’re just not going to tolerate abuse. And abuse occurs because we accept [01:08:15] it and we tolerate it. And then also the abusers also have their own story because they grew [01:08:20] up not having that validation, and they grew up not feeling like they’re confident, so they feel the need to put other people down. [01:08:25] So if we raise a generation of people who internally feel enough and internally feel [01:08:30] like they have confidence within themselves, and they learn how to validate themselves and teach themselves these [01:08:35] important skills, then then I believe that we we can raise a kinder place [01:08:40] and a place where we don’t have these so many psychological disorders and, [01:08:45] you know, psychological illnesses as well.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, you know, what? We do that mental [01:08:50] health podcast as well. Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But the I mean, the funny thing about it, [01:08:55] I think that the latest generation of the kindest generation that’s ever been around. [01:09:00] Right. But on the other flip side of it, the phones. Yeah. [01:09:05] Are, are actually, you know.

Awaz Sharief: I mean it’s troublesome for us. So I don’t, you know, we didn’t even have this. [01:09:10]

Payman Langroudi: Everyone knows the phone is ruining everyone’s mental health. It’s. There’s nothing. Nothing we can do about it. Yeah. [01:09:15] Yeah. And so that generation, you know, hopefully, um, [01:09:20] will come out. They’ll figure it out. Yeah. Net positive. Right? Yeah.

Awaz Sharief: Yeah. There’s there’s so [01:09:25] much positive. You know, all this stuff about narcissism we didn’t know back in the day. People just thought it was. It existed. But [01:09:30] I guess people didn’t have a name tolerated. It didn’t really have a name. But people are just becoming more aware of it now, and that’s [01:09:35] that’s great. It’s just validated the lives of so many people.

[TRANSITION]: I mean.

Payman Langroudi: Adhd, yeah, [01:09:40] so many things that didn’t have a name. I mean, I remember a kid when we were younger, [01:09:45] he, you know, now looking at it, thinking about it, he was a severe ADHD on [01:09:50] the brink of autistic. Yeah. We should call him weird. He was just. He was just weird. Yeah, [01:09:55] exactly. It was just a strange kid. Yeah. And every now and then, he’d hit one someone really [01:10:00] badly. And, you know, no one, no one knew. No one had the right names for these things back then.

Awaz Sharief: Or [01:10:05] even like postpartum depression.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. So many things. Like. Well, it’s been a massive pleasure. Look, like [01:10:10] I say, I haven’t met someone so, so enthusiastic and passionate about about dentistry [01:10:15] as you for a little while now. So it’s palpable. It’s really nice to see that. Yeah. So [01:10:20] thanks a lot for coming on this. Oh, no.

Awaz Sharief: Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure.

[VOICE]: This [01:10:25] is Dental. Leaders the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:10:30] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:10:35] hosts, Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:10:40] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And [01:10:45] just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to [01:10:50] say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If [01:10:55] you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would share [01:11:00] this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks. [01:11:05]

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.