James Morrison: I had this one girl who’s had a bit of a strange request where she wanted goofy teeth. [00:00:05] She wanted big teeth. Like she didn’t want square. [00:00:10] She wanted, like, the front two to be a lot longer. And she was showing me all these pictures and I was like, [00:00:15] this is random. And I’m like, it’s not normally what I would do. But, you know, me being like Mr. [00:00:20] Nice People Pleaser, I’m like, well, you know, cosmetic dentistry is subjective. It’s [00:00:25] her opinion. At the end of the day, why? Who am I to judge and say that’s wrong? Yeah. But then [00:00:30] it kind of evolved because she was doing Invisalign anyway because the teeth are crowded. But then she was showing [00:00:35] me pictures of her teeth, the teeth that she liked. And I’m like, they’re a lot bigger than your teeth. So the only way to go get teeth that big [00:00:40] is to open up spaces with Invisalign, to then close those spaces with bigger teeth. [00:00:45] So we went through all that. I started opening up space.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:50] is Dental Leaders, [00:00:55] the podcast where you get to go one on one with [00:01:00] emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:01:05] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:01:10] gives me great pleasure to welcome James Morrison onto the podcast. [00:01:15] James is a long time friend of mine, a massive enlightened user. [00:01:20] Been on many small make over a couple of times too. Yeah. Uh, cosmetic [00:01:25] dentist in Bristol. Um, James, it’s good to have you. [00:01:30] I kind of want to sometimes. I’ve got, like, a burning question. I want to get out straight away. Of course. Yeah, go [00:01:35] for it. Um, but when did you switched over to being just cosmetic? Recently. [00:01:40] Right?

James Morrison: Yeah, around Covid time, just after Covid.

Payman Langroudi: The mindset [00:01:45] of a cosmetic patient is obviously more difficult than [00:01:50] a non cosmetic patient.

James Morrison: Yeah, definitely.

Payman Langroudi: What’s your top tip around managing [00:01:55] patients I’m not talking about the teeth Patient management of a cosmetic patient. [00:02:00]

James Morrison: It’s difficult for sure. And firstly, I want to say thank you for inviting me on, by the way. I’ve been a [00:02:05] huge fan of this podcast. I switch between this and diary of a CEO and like [00:02:10] every commute to work. And with the cosmetic patient, especially nowadays [00:02:15] with Instagram, they’re seeing these perfect teeth and the expectations [00:02:20] are just going up and up. And I’d say the hardest thing when you first [00:02:25] get into cosmetic dentistry is the fact that obviously you’re learning, right? You’re [00:02:30] not that good yet. It takes quite a lot of courage to get [00:02:35] through those. I would say at least the first year of doing this kind of work, because [00:02:40] you have to accept that there are going to be some revisions. [00:02:45] It might not be perfect, you might not meet that patient’s expectation, because I think that’s less demoralising [00:02:50] on you as the dentist. If you’re already prepared that you may have to tweak things, you don’t necessarily [00:02:55] see it as a failure. It’s more just like a first try.

Payman Langroudi: You prepare them for the fact that there might be revisions. [00:03:00]

James Morrison: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s what I learned early on. When you get that patient that’s [00:03:05] like, oh, it’s not quite what I wanted. Obviously over time that happens less and less. And therefore you’ve [00:03:10] become far more confident. And quite often you nail it first time actually. Often [00:03:15] cosmetic dentistry is subjective. There is no right or wrong. So, you know, you [00:03:20] do one thing on one patient, do the same thing on the next patient, and then the next patient is actually like, no, no, that’s not what [00:03:25] I wanted.

Payman Langroudi: But type of cosmetic patient is the type that you’ve come across [00:03:30] that’s been the most difficult. Like in your head.

James Morrison: Have them like in your head.

Payman Langroudi: Have them separated [00:03:35] into different types. Because I speak to Matty Parsons about this. Yeah. And he says the kind [00:03:40] of patient who comes in very exacting, knowing exactly what they want is actually [00:03:45] easier than the type that says, I’ll leave it up to you. That’s true, because the ones who leave it up to you [00:03:50] sometimes, you know, they’ve still got something in their head. Yeah, yeah. You’re just.

James Morrison: Not. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Confident [00:03:55] enough to say it. And the demo of your patients are generally younger. Yeah.

James Morrison: Younger patients I’d [00:04:00] say 18 to 35 because of all the Instagram promotion. So again, a.

Payman Langroudi: Different mindset with them [00:04:05] than I used to treat a lot of older patients. Cosmetically another different mindset. Yeah. [00:04:10] So tell me what comes to mind when I say which type of just.

James Morrison: The divas, you know, they come in [00:04:15] and they’ve got the lips and they’ve got the boobs done and they come in the early days.

Payman Langroudi: Body [00:04:20] dysmorphia.

James Morrison: Yeah, that kind of vibe. I haven’t done it often. [00:04:25] I would say in the early days when I realised, you know, some patients [00:04:30] can be difficult. There’s probably about a handful of patients I have written to to say that [00:04:35] I do not think I’m going to meet their expectations before you even start. Before I even start. Yeah. Yeah. And [00:04:40] they would be best. But the problem ones tend.

Payman Langroudi: To be the ones where you don’t spot it.

James Morrison: And [00:04:45] that actually happens a lot. Like a lot of people are nice in the, in the consultation. And [00:04:50] then once you’ve started treatment they kind of turn a bit and seem a bit [00:04:55] difficult, or you’ve run like ten, 15 minutes late and they’re like really angry about it. Yeah. [00:05:00] Causing a scene. To be honest, I haven’t had too many difficult, difficult [00:05:05] patients. I would say in a way, having social media advertising, because you’re kind [00:05:10] of presenting yourself and I try and actually keep my page quite personal. You actually do get a lot of people [00:05:15] who have kind of picked you out because they feel like they gel with you. So I actually [00:05:20] find I have less overall difficulty with [00:05:25] patients now that I’m this cosmetic dentist that has these patients come in through Instagram than I did [00:05:30] when I used to run like an NHS, you know, have an NHS list with varying ages because [00:05:35] it just gets easier and easier.

Payman Langroudi: On the first visit. They already think they know you, [00:05:40] so there’s an element of that.

James Morrison: Quite big on the patient journey and gelling with the patient. Anyway, [00:05:45] I do like to make sure I’m building rapport and all of that is in place before I start doing any work. [00:05:50] I would say it’s just easier when they’re coming in already with a similar mindset to you. Compared [00:05:55] to when I used to do the NHS work, or a patient in their maybe in their 60s, and you’ve [00:06:00] done a crown and they’re quite nervous. They’ve had all this history of bad dentists and [00:06:05] everything and they’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Come in with baggage already.

James Morrison: Yeah, they kind of see me in a way as this cool [00:06:10] Instagram dentist. So they often want to keep me on side, I find, and they [00:06:15] want to get on with me as much as I want to get on with them.

Payman Langroudi: So look what comes to mind. I used [00:06:20] to do cosmetic dentistry in the 90s when I was a dentist. I was a proper five days a week [00:06:25] dentist, and back then it was porcelain veneers. Yeah. And back then, the temporaries weren’t even. [00:06:30] You know what they’re going to get in the end. The temporaries were what they have right now. Yeah. That [00:06:35] way of doing it. And, um, I remember one case in particular where [00:06:40] the the patient was always very happy. She’d go home and then [00:06:45] come back with problems that are I can’t remember. But daughter [00:06:50] was saying they don’t look good. And it was a nightmare, man, because we [00:06:55] fit the veneers. I thought they were great. The nurse was like amazing hugs and kisses. It’s [00:07:00] all brilliant. Everyone’s happy. Go home. My daughter doesn’t like them.

James Morrison: Yeah, [00:07:05] that’s that’s the worry.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And then. And then adjust. Oh I’m happy again. Go home daughter. Something [00:07:10] else. Yeah. And I realised you know there’s a few things going on there. Number [00:07:15] one you know you, you put ten veneers on someone you’re talking about sometimes 15 [00:07:20] grand of work or something. So that £15,000 is an amount [00:07:25] that could change people’s lives sort of thing. You know, that, you know, maybe the daughter wants [00:07:30] a new car or whatever it is. There’s that aspect of it. Yeah. So we’re not talking small amounts of money [00:07:35] sometimes, of course. And number two, interestingly, I fitted some veneers on my own dad. [00:07:40] Right. I fitted them everything. He got up, nursed over the moon. [00:07:45] He looked at them and he went, I’m so proud of you. I looked at him and thought, that’s not my [00:07:50] dad. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. And what it is is that, you know, the gaps had gone. And [00:07:55] sometimes you you love someone for their weaknesses rather than their strengths, you know. [00:08:00] And so managing all of the, you know that that third party sort of side of [00:08:05] things. Yeah. Yeah.

James Morrison: It’s complex when it comes to porcelain veneers. I’m [00:08:10] quite big on doing the trial smile and actually doing it while polishing them up, putting the [00:08:15] glaze on like making them actually feel nice and are very close to what the real [00:08:20] final result is going to be, and then sending them away, letting them have those like [00:08:25] opinions from other people. Get them back in for review. What do you think this [00:08:30] is.

Payman Langroudi: Going to do that.

James Morrison: With composite? It’s very much like I just like to do it. And then if [00:08:35] the patient wants to change it, I’ll get them back and I’ll just like revise it at that point. My worst [00:08:40] nightmare would be fitting porcelain veneers. And then yeah, the patient turning around and saying, [00:08:45] I hate these or someone doesn’t like them and we need to change them.

Payman Langroudi: Now they’re fitted, right?

James Morrison: That is a worry. Yeah, [00:08:50] that is a worry. Yeah. I haven’t had that, luckily.

Payman Langroudi: So you you alluded to [00:08:55] being hot on patient journey. Go on. What does that mean to you?

James Morrison: You know you [00:09:00] get a lot of practices doing, you know, the whole treatment coordinator thing. Like, I like to just [00:09:05] be in full control from the outset. So I like to be doing the whole consultation [00:09:10] and everything. The workflow is very much like my wife does all my admin. Yeah. So she’s [00:09:15] answering all the DMs. Only because I was doing that once upon a time. But when Covid hit, it was [00:09:20] getting too much. And also you get patient on a Saturday night saying, oh, something’s chipped and you’re just a bit like, [00:09:25] oh God. Like just that anxiety it would create for me knowing that someone’s having an issue was [00:09:30] too much. Yeah. My wife does all the DMs so that I don’t really see that. And it’s very. [00:09:35]

Payman Langroudi: Percentage of your patients come from Instagram 100%. Pretty much word of mouth right from those [00:09:40] same patients. Yeah.

James Morrison: Yeah. I’m getting a lot of the mum mums coming in from a lot of my patients now. [00:09:45] So it started off a younger generation and now it’s a lot of older patients coming through as well.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:09:50] we’ll have to go into the Instagram thing too. But go on. Yeah. Go on. Let’s talk about the patient journey, the.

James Morrison: Message, the Instagram page. [00:09:55] My wife has a pretty much one template that covers all angles. She’ll essentially say [00:10:00] to book a consultation email info at Doctor Morrison. Co.uk. That then goes [00:10:05] to Rosie, my receptionist, and then she just goes to a little back and forth. Patient [00:10:10] pays for consultation, gets booked in with me. Interestingly, during Covid, [00:10:15] I actually started doing some video consultations only because [00:10:20] during Covid the Instagram page boomed and I couldn’t see anyone because obviously we [00:10:25] couldn’t go into the practice. So I designed this presentation with all the different [00:10:30] treatments before and after pictures, all of that, and I’d just do it on zoom where I do [00:10:35] a screen share go through the presentation. The patient patient would have sent me four photos [00:10:40] of their teeth from different angles. Occasionally, if it’s a complex case, I might say we need to confirm this in [00:10:45] person, say nowadays especially I can diagnose from pictures alone pretty [00:10:50] easily, you know? During Covid, I sort of polished that aspect out. So now what? [00:10:55] Because I still get quite a few patients travelling in from from far away I do every [00:11:00] other Friday I’m working from home just still doing them video consultations. I do like clean [00:11:05] checks for Invisalign as well, and just some simple reviews after bonding or whatever. So [00:11:10] I do like a work from home day, which is pretty cool. Like there’s not many dentists that can do that. And then I also do consultations [00:11:15] in the practice as well. But it’s very much like in the practice. For example, I go out, greet the patient, [00:11:20] bring them in, find out where they’ve travelled in from and what they’re up to today. All of them kind [00:11:25] of questions like, how long do you.

Payman Langroudi: Talk to them before even starting to look in the in the mouth?

James Morrison: Not long, maybe [00:11:30] five minutes. You know, it doesn’t need to be that long. It just needs to be a few questions. And I [00:11:35] find, you know, where have you travelled in from to to? Today is a nice one also. How did you hear about [00:11:40] it? Was it through the Instagram page or did you come through a friend? I like that one. Just for my own knowledge. Finding [00:11:45] out how many people are really coming through Instagram and how much is word of mouth. They asked us a few questions [00:11:50] just to chill them out. You can tell instantly they’re quite happy then, because you maybe had a little bit of a joke in [00:11:55] there. Trying to get them to laugh is actually priceless. I find if you can actually have a [00:12:00] bit of banter with the patient. Yeah, that’s like amazing. So and you can tell they’re almost [00:12:05] instantly on board at that point. Then I’ll take just a few brief photos because I get them [00:12:10] back for an examination after that anyway, so once they’ve booked in, they’ll get the proper photos. If I take a few brief photos [00:12:15] just to let them know I’ve got some, like, cool equipment basically.

James Morrison: Yeah. And then lying back [00:12:20] in the chair, scan the teeth to scan everyone, sit them back up and get the teeth up on [00:12:25] the screen. And then I’ll go through my presentation on a screen as well. It’s the ABC [00:12:30] presentation Align Brighton Contour. And you can tell the patient likes that [00:12:35] they’re on board at that point because they think, oh wow, he’s actually educating me. And I’m starting to actually understand [00:12:40] what these treatments are about the align Brighton contour align obviously is Invisalign Brighton [00:12:45] mainly enlighten and then contours either composite bonding porcelain veneers [00:12:50] and I’m very open with the fact that they can do it all. Or we could phase the treatment and do part of the [00:12:55] treatment. I’m not a pushy dentist in the fact that this is your one price and that’s [00:13:00] it. Interestingly, I find when you give people a few options, maybe [00:13:05] if you give them three options or at least two, go for the middle one, they’ll go for the most expensive every time. [00:13:10] Yeah. It’s interesting.

Payman Langroudi: So there’s a big element in that first meeting of rapport [00:13:15] and trust and all that because you kind of know what you’re up against clinically. Yeah. [00:13:20] Kind of already. Yeah. But right now you give them the three different plans. You get them to agree [00:13:25] or not if possible there and then to you most of the.

James Morrison: Time, to be honest, the patient has decided [00:13:30] what plan they want because it’s quite clear. You know, I talk through the payment options as well. At that point [00:13:35] I’m very clear about the financial aspect. You can do finance, they can part pay each visit all of [00:13:40] this. So I’m very clear about the money. I think that’s quite a big drawback for patients when when [00:13:45] that’s not clear they sometimes won’t go ahead with treatments. Yeah. They’ll go out to reception. And I would have said [00:13:50] either you can look at appointments in the diary today with Rosie and then it’s normally 500 minimum [00:13:55] deposit to book in or set up finance. So they could either do that or if they want some time [00:14:00] to think about it, which I do say, I’m constantly very adamant. I don’t want to seem [00:14:05] pressurising. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can email them the information, which is very much like [00:14:10] their treatment plan. And the great thing about my software actually at work now that I use is [00:14:15] you can send them the treatment plan and all the consent for each treatment option. So [00:14:20] they literally just have one document that has all the all the benefits, all the risks for each treatment [00:14:25] software. Is it um, I smile, have you heard of this one? Each treatment [00:14:30] option has its designated consent and you just click the tick and it would be on [00:14:35] that consent form.

James Morrison: So it’s all in just in one place and then they’ll get another email booking, [00:14:40] treatment and payment options. I’ll normally email them all my nurse. Essentially, [00:14:45] it will be the timeline of their appointments, whatever the time intervals are. And these are all templated, [00:14:50] so it’s all clear on there. The total fee payment options and then the patient could respond. [00:14:55] This is my availability. This is what payment option I want. And then Rosie will already have in that [00:15:00] email the timeline so she’ll know what to book. So I’ve streamlined that so that [00:15:05] it just seems quite slick and quick. So after the consultation, whether it’s in person [00:15:10] or on zoom, they will have all that information within five minutes of [00:15:15] essentially what their appointments are total fee payment options, a [00:15:20] treatment plan with all the consent. I don’t I’m a kind of dentist. I don’t like to have any kind of [00:15:25] admin outside of just being in the surgery. So I’m quite efficient [00:15:30] with just getting it done and like having it ticked off occasionally. Obviously I might run [00:15:35] late. And what’s your.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of positioning? Are you expensive? Cheap? [00:15:40] The same price as other dentists. The weird thing.

James Morrison: At the moment is I’m [00:15:45] getting to a point where my loops are higher. Mag, and I’m now 8.8 times [00:15:50] my skills are getting better, so I’m just. I’m seeing more detail and I’m actually [00:15:55] slowing down, right? Yeah, I would say just after Covid I was like a machine just smashing it out. [00:16:00] But it was almost like what you can’t see. You don’t know. Yeah, I could work very [00:16:05] fast at that point, but now I can’t really compromise on the quality. [00:16:10] So it’s getting to a point where I’ve done some price increases, but I probably should be [00:16:15] doing more given the quality that the patients are now getting and the time that I’m now spending. But [00:16:20] it’s £350 for composite bonding. You know, I know a lot of the London and guys [00:16:25] up north are sort of charging 400 at some point. I probably would go up to that. But [00:16:30] in Bristol the demand for cosmetic isn’t as high. So I don’t I don’t want to. And [00:16:35] are there.

Payman Langroudi: Other possible price objections? Or do I mean, is there, for instance, [00:16:40] I mean, in this sort of touchy feely environment that you’ve set up, it kind of would ruin [00:16:45] the conversation if someone said, oh, I’ve been somewhere else, and they do it for 300. Yeah. Is [00:16:50] that is that a red flag? When that happens.

James Morrison: That probably would be a red flag. And I’m like, well, no. Most of the time they’re charging [00:16:55] cheaper because it’s not as good a product. But I rarely ever have anyone say, oh, I can get [00:17:00] it cheaper somewhere else.

Payman Langroudi: Even with the brands like they say, Invisalign and Lighten, they look [00:17:05] it up. None of that. I think.

James Morrison: It’s because, you.

Payman Langroudi: Know, they’re sold on you from your page.

James Morrison: Yeah, I think in [00:17:10] London and up north, you know, there’s there’s so many dentists on Instagram, there’s so much choice. Whereas [00:17:15] it just seems in Bristol there isn’t many people doing what I’m doing. So they kind of see [00:17:20] it as I want to go to James because I’ve seen his work. So that’s [00:17:25] just the price and they don’t really bat an eyelid. Did you put the price up? I know at some [00:17:30] point I should. Yeah I did, and you said the.

Payman Langroudi: Ones that come from far and wide, is that a lot [00:17:35] or a few or um.

James Morrison: Ten, 20% maybe come from sort of [00:17:40] like Devon Cornwall area. So that side of the country, even.

Payman Langroudi: Fewer dentists down there. Yeah, even. [00:17:45]

James Morrison: Fewer down there. And they obviously don’t want to travel all the way to London. So I do get quite a lot of Devon, Cornwall, Dorset [00:17:50] that sort of areas. But majority are Bristol and Weston-super-Mare, [00:17:55] which is where I used to work. So yeah. But some you know, I did do a price increase with when Invisalign [00:18:00] put their prices up. I did the exact same increase. Yeah. But and I did a few just, you know, [00:18:05] a check-ups now £65 rather than 50. You know, little ones like that. It’s always it’s always a tough [00:18:10] one because you don’t want to like, do it and then see your numbers drop. And it’s always harder to reduce your price once [00:18:15] you’ve gone up. But yeah, the composite bonding one I you know, that’s one I’m looking at at the moment as how much [00:18:20] could I creep that up by. Because it’s the thing that I’m. Yeah. I’d say spending longer [00:18:25] on.

Payman Langroudi: You do a lot of them right. You’re good at them. It’s your price should reflect that. But [00:18:30] I think one other thing like let’s not even talk about dentistry. Let’s talk about any other business. Let’s [00:18:35] say you’ve got a restaurant. Yeah. One thing we don’t sort of get our head around [00:18:40] is that. And just to keep it simple, let’s imagine the restaurant doubles its price [00:18:45] for the sake of the argument, doubles its quality. Um, and [00:18:50] let’s imagine half the the people who go to that restaurant, the [00:18:55] customers don’t come back. Yeah, that restaurant is better off [00:19:00] with half the customers, of course, at double the price, of course. Yeah, because he’s doing half the amount [00:19:05] of work. Mhm. And making the same amount of money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that [00:19:10] double.

James Morrison: The price of composite.

Payman Langroudi: Bonds. No no no. But but it’s not about doubling right. It’s about you increase [00:19:15] it by a 20%. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s imagine there’s a 20% [00:19:20] drop off. You’re better off. Yeah of course. Yeah. Yeah. And but it’s not it’s not an equation we [00:19:25] get clear in our head. Now of course you don’t want to increase it so much that you’re not working. [00:19:30] Yeah. That chair needs to be busy. But but but understand that that if there is a [00:19:35] drop off. I used to have a boss here. He was like. Unless everyone’s completely complaining about price, we’re [00:19:40] not charging enough. And he used to constantly put the prices up. Yeah. This guy. Yeah. You should have [00:19:45] seen that. Patients loved him as well. You know, so there isn’t that relationship [00:19:50] between price and volume, you know. Yeah.

James Morrison: I think like my efficiency [00:19:55] I’ve managed to kind of nail down over time. And I feel like, you know, when you [00:20:00] just feel like you’re comfortable enough, you know, you’ve got a nice house and you know, you’re not really worried about paying bills. So [00:20:05] it’s sort of not like front of mind for me at the moment. But yeah, I do know at some [00:20:10] point I should because because ultimately I’m trying to reduce my days, if anything, [00:20:15] because, yeah, I’ve done the five days, six days work in the past. And, you know, I want to spend more time [00:20:20] with my son. And yeah, so, you know, it’s more it more be about that really like raising [00:20:25] the price so I don’t have to work quite so much. How many days.

Payman Langroudi: Do you work now?

James Morrison: Um, so it’s. Yeah. [00:20:30] Four. So four days a week in practice and then every other Friday, working from [00:20:35] home, then every other Friday off. So, um, that seems to work quite nice. I think [00:20:40] five days in practice is a lot. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: At the, at the kind of work you’re doing as well.

James Morrison: Yeah. It’s a lot. [00:20:45]

Payman Langroudi: I can’t do it well over five days I think. I mean some people can. Yeah some people can. Yeah. But but [00:20:50] I think four days as a practice owner, I’d say even three days. [00:20:55] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As a dentist. Because as practice, I mean, you’re kind of you’re I mean, you’re renting a room now. Yeah, [00:21:00] I’m renting a room. You’re not quite an associate. It’s a kind of different situation. Yeah. You’re kind of in an in-between as [00:21:05] a practice owner. There’s so many things that have to be done. Questions have to be asked, staff that aren’t getting on with each [00:21:10] other. So many things like that on top of the dentistry. Yeah, yeah. That I for [00:21:15] me, I’d say three days is enough for the practice. Yeah yeah, yeah.

James Morrison: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I’m not going to be popular with [00:21:20] people for saying that. Let’s get back to the way we normally start. Okay. Yeah. Where [00:21:25] did you grow up?

James Morrison: So I was actually born in America. Erica. So, yeah, I was born in Florida, a place [00:21:30] called Fort Walton Beach, Florida. My dad’s American. All our all his side of the family from Miami. [00:21:35] And. Yeah, but I only was there for about three years. And then my my mom missed her [00:21:40] family. She’s she’s from Liverpool. Uh, so, yeah, she, we we decided to fly back [00:21:45] and there was an American Air Force base in Alconbury, sort of East Anglia area, and my dad could [00:21:50] work. So we kind of resided in that area. And then. Yeah, I grew up in, grew up in Peterborough, [00:21:55] basically.

Payman Langroudi: And your dad did what?

James Morrison: American Air Force. What did he do with the [00:22:00] military? He was just fixing planes, basically.

Payman Langroudi: Actually fixing planes.

James Morrison: Yeah. Um, yeah. My dad’s. My [00:22:05] dad’s an interesting one. There was something about him and the fact that he just never really got anything done, like [00:22:10] the ultimate procrastinator. So I think growing up, me seeing that and seeing the [00:22:15] stress that used to cause, especially for my mum, has always been the big driver for me to be like, [00:22:20] okay, I need to work hard and be productive to actually like get anywhere [00:22:25] in this world. So I think in a way, like my dad, it was [00:22:30] sort of a reverse role model in the sense that I was like, I wanted to do what not to do. Yeah, [00:22:35] for sure, for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Although do you have any, like, thoughts that maybe he had like a severe ADHD [00:22:40] or something that we didn’t have a name?

James Morrison: He definitely has some sort of mental health. [00:22:45] 100% because I mean, he would be late for everything. And like, I’m [00:22:50] talking like he’d he’d be picking us up all the whole family up from the shops and he’d be [00:22:55] like, four hours late. Can we be, like, sat there, like, where have you been? And he’d be like, he wouldn’t really have a reason. [00:23:00] He misses every single flight he’s ever tried to get. Yeah. So like, every time he’s like, messages. I’ve missed [00:23:05] the flight. He just he just doesn’t really get around to to doing anything. But he’s [00:23:10] kind of innocent about it, you know, it’s like, I don’t, like, have any hard feelings towards him. I’ve [00:23:15] just learned not to rely on him for anything anymore. So I do think that was a driver for me, because my mum would always [00:23:20] say, oh, you’re nothing like your dad. Like you’re so like, I’d be in the gym and I’d be, like, working hard at school. [00:23:25] I feel like that was the big part that played was just seeing him not really achieving [00:23:30] anything. And ultimately he retired from the Air Force and now he actually lives back in America. [00:23:35] Do you still see him? Not much like my brother moved over to America as well. My brother is teaching out [00:23:40] there as well, so I don’t get to see my brother much either. Were you a very studious kid? Not really. [00:23:45] I mean, growing up, it was all about sport. I used to play a lot of football, so it was very much [00:23:50] like that was my life.

James Morrison: So yeah, I would say from the age of like eight, [00:23:55] up until the age of like 14, like my whole life was, was football. And I didn’t really care too [00:24:00] much about school. Yeah, I used to play for Leicester Academy. That was going to be the career. And [00:24:05] then yeah, unfortunately like overnight around about 14 years old, sort of started losing all my athleticism. [00:24:10] Got a lot slower and I had to quit basically, which was was really hard. And then yeah, I would say [00:24:15] just before GCSEs, that’s when I kind of knuckled down a bit more with school because I realised, okay, football’s [00:24:20] not going to happen. That’s when I started actually revising, I’d say GCSEs. I kind of winged it a little [00:24:25] bit. Got got through with I think it was like three stars, five A’s and three B’s [00:24:30] without any revision. But then when I went into A-levels, obviously I [00:24:35] got a, I got a U in my first biology exam, and that was when my [00:24:40] mum was like, right when you really need to knuckle down. And then I actually made the decision to do dentistry and [00:24:45] that’s when I. Why is that? That’s a random one. So yeah, I haven’t got any [00:24:50] sort of dentistry in the family in any way. It was literally my mate’s dad who was just one [00:24:55] of these like really knowledgeable guys who just seems to just have so much wisdom. He [00:25:00] was just like, after a night out, I just sat on his lounge floor and he was like, you [00:25:05] know what? I really want Andrew, who’s my mate.

James Morrison: I really want Andrew to be a dentist. And I was like, oh, right. [00:25:10] Why? He’s like, oh, well, you know, my brother’s a dentist. He’s got, you know, works whatever hours he wants. [00:25:15] Really comfortable life, nice house, nice car. And I was like, oh right. Okay. And he was [00:25:20] like, what do you want to be? And at the time, because I’d come from football background and I was doing [00:25:25] sciences. I was like, oh, maybe physiotherapy. He was like, there’s no jobs. You’re like, you’re going to get out there. [00:25:30] There’s it’s so competitive. You want to do a degree where you’re definitely going to get a job. So medicine, [00:25:35] dentistry, that’s what you need to do. And I was like, right, I never thought. And he was like, you really [00:25:40] need to think about not just the job. Everyone’s like, oh, do what? What you like. You know, do what you [00:25:45] love. Do what you’re passionate about. He was like, what you really need to think about is what life you want to live like [00:25:50] outside. Because that’s what’s going to make you happy. Like a job is a job at the end of the day. If you want to be going [00:25:55] on a certain amount of holidays a year or living in a certain standard of house, you need the job to supply [00:26:00] that. And that was like a light bulb moment. Something clicked in.

Payman Langroudi: Your little 17 [00:26:05] year old head. You know, it’s sort of.

James Morrison: Like, I want all of those things. So [00:26:10] and I think growing up where my parents didn’t have a lot of money and, and I saw the stress that [00:26:15] that can bring it, it literally just overnight was like, I’ll be a dentist. Then that was it. I [00:26:20] kind of booked on to do some work experience and that was it. You know, when I was there, the [00:26:25] funniest bit about the work experience was on day one, it got cancelled because the dentist decided [00:26:30] to go on a golf trip, which I was like, sold. I [00:26:35] want to do this job where I can cancel my day last minute to go play golf. And [00:26:40] yeah, the dentist that I did work experience with was really, really nice guy. And yeah, just [00:26:45] yeah, that opened up my eyes to it. And I just thought I’m just going to go for it and sort of knuckled down with, [00:26:50] with revision and, and to be honest, once I put my mind to something like even the teachers, it was overnight, [00:26:55] they were like, I went from dozing around really in class to suddenly knowing everything and answering all [00:27:00] the questions, and they were like, wow, okay, an A-levels. It got to the point where the Aqa, the [00:27:05] guys who run the exam used to just ask the same questions over and over. So I used to do all the past papers [00:27:10] and I’d know literally the whole mark scheme. I remember the teachers being like, are you cheating? [00:27:15] You know, it got to the point of getting 100% in exams and getting all A’s and a level. [00:27:20] And yeah, it was a sudden turn in me becoming a bit [00:27:25] more serious when it came to the academic side. So yeah, in Peterborough.

Payman Langroudi: At this point.

James Morrison: Yeah. Still in Peterborough. Yeah. [00:27:30] I mean the school I went to wasn’t great. It got very little help. So it was all very much like me just at home [00:27:35] self-teaching myself. It was just a very average state school. Most people don’t go [00:27:40] on to do dentistry or medicine. So it was a little bit outside of the box. And [00:27:45] then when you.

Payman Langroudi: Got when you got to Bristol, what was the feeling?

James Morrison: Oh, amazing.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a wicked [00:27:50] city Bristol. I love Bristol. I love Bristol.

James Morrison: It’s so, so good. And the years I had there at [00:27:55] uni, because I had a lot of them, I had did a six year degree because I did pre-dentistry, so I didn’t actually [00:28:00] do chemistry A-levels, ended up having to do pre-dentistry, which I don’t do anymore. So yeah, I did six year [00:28:05] degree, plus I took two years out because I had to have operation on my shoulders. So I ended up start to finish [00:28:10] being essentially a student in Bristol for eight years. So, you know, [00:28:15] it very much became like my home. Yeah for sure. And yeah, now I live there. I live there [00:28:20] now. I don’t see myself moving anywhere else.

Payman Langroudi: But what kind of a kid were you? I mean, were you, like, first [00:28:25] time out of the house, go crazy party kid? Or were you serious? Study? Yeah, [00:28:30] the first year, like first year?

James Morrison: Oh, yeah. I was very much not going to any lectures, getting [00:28:35] people to bring the handouts home so I could like.

Payman Langroudi: Was there a moment where in university [00:28:40] became serious as well?

James Morrison: Um, I think firstly because it was pre Dental, it wasn’t like quite [00:28:45] as serious, which I’m quite glad it went that way around. Yeah. I was very much like partying. [00:28:50] Yeah. Towards the end of the dentistry degree. Yeah I would say I knuckled down more [00:28:55] but I mean yeah, it got to the point. In my second year I started running all the club nights for, for the students. [00:29:00] You know, I started I started being a fully fledged event organiser, which was a lot of [00:29:05] late nights. Sometimes I’d have a few events on a week.

Payman Langroudi: So yeah.

James Morrison: Yeah, [00:29:10] yeah. I mean it’s not it’s not cheap being a student, especially in Bristol, but [00:29:15] so like that.

Payman Langroudi: Was kind of a mini business.

James Morrison: That was a mini business. Yeah, that was my first introduction, really to to [00:29:20] entrepreneurship and and business because it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Like, oh, go on, go on, tell me, tell me about the club nights, [00:29:25] funding, DJs and venues, all of it. How big was the biggest one?

James Morrison: Uh, [00:29:30] I’d say 3000 people. Maybe 3000 people. Yeah, one, one event actually [00:29:35] got shut down because so many people turned up. There were stampedes outside, you know, prism, you know, the, [00:29:40] the big used to be Oceana in Bristol. Yeah. Um, yeah. We had the police shut an event down [00:29:45] because so many people turned up and were trying to, you know, stampede to get in. And was it just. [00:29:50]

Payman Langroudi: You or did you have a partner?

James Morrison: So, so to start with, it was just me. So in my first [00:29:55] year, there was a guy going around selling tickets and I was like, why are you doing this? He’s like, oh, you sell the tickets. We keep the profit and the [00:30:00] venue get the money from the drinks. I’m like, what? I presume the club took everything. They’re like, [00:30:05] no, no, no. If you if you do it, especially on a midweek night where you’re bringing students to the door, you keep the promoter, you keep the promoter. [00:30:10] Yeah, yeah. So that was like a light bulb moment. And I was like, hang on a minute, because I was already struggling because my [00:30:15] parents weren’t giving me any help with with money and it wasn’t cheap living in Bristol. [00:30:20] So I had to do something in my second year. That was when Facebook just came out, so [00:30:25] I started. What year.

Payman Langroudi: Was it?

James Morrison: Uh, 2007. Oh yeah. So yeah, Facebook just [00:30:30] come out and people do it all the time now. But at the time I started creating profile like for like the Hall, for [00:30:35] example, Hiatt Baker Hall and I’d be adding people and like then they didn’t have all these like, you know, [00:30:40] systems to stop it. So I’d put up an event up, invite everyone they at [00:30:45] that time I was the only person doing it. And then, yeah, I just did a lot of my own events like and [00:30:50] I’d do maybe 3 or 4 a year. And then I kind of teamed up with another guy and [00:30:55] we did more like weekly club nights, you know, the more I got kind of like into it. But that was [00:31:00] another part I feel like I’ve learned a lot is when you spread yourself thin [00:31:05] and think, oh, more events. And that’s going to be like more money, actually, you, [00:31:10] because I wasn’t putting so much love and attention into each event it actually [00:31:15] the effort we were putting in and profit was, was starting to become less, less. Hence why [00:31:20] the first event I ever did was the highest profit, because the amount of love and attention that [00:31:25] I put into that was so much. So that was quite interesting. Now that in in [00:31:30] respect of with dentistry, I think I just want one good practice. I don’t want like 20 [00:31:35] okay practices, I like I want one good practice like quality over quantity. So [00:31:40] that was a big learning.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting discussion. That particular discussion you know, because [00:31:45] you know I’ve got a lot of respect for like I don’t know Gail’s the [00:31:50] the bakery. Oh yeah. It’s quality product. It’s the [00:31:55] same everywhere around the country wherever you get it. You know Gail’s. Yeah [00:32:00] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. There’s a lot of them in London. Yeah, it. Deal with it. Mcdonald’s? Yeah. It’s [00:32:05] not such a quality product, but it’s. The quality is the same every time. Yeah yeah, yeah. [00:32:10] And then you’re right. You’re right. There’s a type of practice. The amount of love [00:32:15] that you, the dentist, can give to that patient that isn’t something you can [00:32:20] replicate over 100 practices or whatever. Yeah, yeah, it’s very interesting. [00:32:25] As far as events go, I met the guy who did the manumission, Johnny Manumission, [00:32:30] whatever his name is. Okay. Yeah. And we were talking and he said, yeah, it never made a penny. [00:32:35] Yeah, yeah. And I said, what do you mean? And do you remember, did you ever go to the. Was it before your time. [00:32:40] It was, it was a gigantic. It was the biggest club in the world in Ibiza. Yeah. And, um, [00:32:45] gigantic amazing nights. Amazing nights. One of the most amazing nights I’ve ever seen. And this guy [00:32:50] did it for six, seven years. Was trending as, like, the best night in Ibiza. Mhm. And he said I’d [00:32:55] never made a dollar. And I’m like how could that be. Yeah. And he said I just reinvested [00:33:00] everything. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And you know events are a funny thing. I do events right. Mini spas. [00:33:05] Yeah. And then there’s loads of Dental events here. The the better you make the event, [00:33:10] the less money you make. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s true. It’s a funny thing. Yeah. [00:33:15] Like, even for a Dental event, right? You get an amazing AV setup. Yeah, yeah, yeah, [00:33:20] that’s less money right now, but you could take the one that from the hotel. Yeah, it’s interesting, [00:33:25] but I.

James Morrison: I’d say that gave me the spark of, like, marketing social media, like [00:33:30] the hype where, like, you get all the comments, the likes. Yeah. All these people attending events [00:33:35] and, like, it was like a drug, you know. I was gonna say.

Payman Langroudi: Did you take to it like a duck to water? I mean, how come [00:33:40] in 2007, you.

James Morrison: I just loved it. I loved the the risk [00:33:45] of, like, how is it going to go? Is it going to be a flop? Is it going to be a success? And I would say I’ve only ever [00:33:50] lost money once on an event. Like majority of the time it was normally a it was [00:33:55] an event. It was a buzz. Yeah, yeah. And then yeah, over time I then started working with another guy, [00:34:00] just because it gets a bit lonely doing these things on your own. You know, we started doing crazy stuff like hide, [00:34:05] hide out Kings Weston House in Bristol, which is this big like, like manor [00:34:10] House did a Halloween event. Oh, yeah. Everyone trashed the place, and obviously we never got [00:34:15] invited back, but, um. But, yeah, we did, like, a lot.

Payman Langroudi: I bet you were doctor popular at that point, right? Did [00:34:20] everyone know your name? And you were like, yeah, I mean, life of the party.

James Morrison: Yeah, exactly. It was, like, all about [00:34:25] who you knew and, like, you know, you know, I was always the guy. I knew a lot of people out and about. [00:34:30] And it was more about that. The money aspect helped, but it was quite good, just sort [00:34:35] of being known and connected. I’d say I’m less like that now. Like when you’re when you’re a bit younger, you want [00:34:40] to be the cool kid that everyone knows. But yeah, I’m a bit more of a recluse these days. Yeah, I would say [00:34:45] at that point it was a fun thing to be involved with for sure.

Payman Langroudi: And then you said you had two years out for [00:34:50] operations.

James Morrison: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that’s a bit of a crazy story, really. I mentioned [00:34:55] I did a lot of football growing up, and about 14, I had to stop playing because I lost my athleticism and I had no [00:35:00] clue what it was like. It was random and it almost felt overnight. And then I just quit football because it [00:35:05] became almost difficult to run. And so I went on to uni, did dentistry, and my second year [00:35:10] when I got on to clinic, it was the first time seeing a patient and I and I went to lift my arm up to [00:35:15] the light and I couldn’t lift my arm and I knew this thing was going on. I was like, my arm’s here. And [00:35:20] I just thought, oh, I need to go gym. I’ve sprained something or whatever. But I realised, yeah, this is a problem [00:35:25] like so I had to stand up to grab the light and pull it down. And I was like, [00:35:30] whoa, this, I need to talk to someone about this. So I just once I went back to see my mum one of the holidays, [00:35:35] I was just like, mum, I can’t lift my arms above my head.

James Morrison: She’s like, were you on about? I’m like, no, honestly. [00:35:40] Like, look. And I go to lift my arm and it’s like, there I’m like, wow, the shoulder blade [00:35:45] wing right out. Now I can get like decent, decent movement. She was like straight away, something’s [00:35:50] wrong. You know? She’s like, get you into the doctors. And even they didn’t know. They had no clue. They did some blood tests, [00:35:55] but they were like, I don’t know. And I was at home googling. I was like, what is going on with me? And I came across on Wikipedia [00:36:00] the type of muscular dystrophy that can affect your scapular stabiliser [00:36:05] muscles. So the shoulder blades start winging out. It’s called scapular winging. So as you go to lift your arm, the shoulder [00:36:10] blade like wings right out, puts loads of pressure on the skin. But interestingly, the biomechanics of that, [00:36:15] once it wings out the arm can’t go up. So and then it also set about can’t blow up balloons. So [00:36:20] I was like whoa. Like that’s true. I can’t blow up balloons like Jesus. So you actually figured.

Payman Langroudi: It out yourself. [00:36:25]

James Morrison: Facial weakness. Yeah, I was like and the difficulty in working with arms raised and all this. And I was like, this is [00:36:30] it. So I went back to the doctor. I was like, you need to do genetic tests for this because I’ve got all these [00:36:35] symptoms. They did it. And yeah, diagnosed with facial Scapulohumeral [00:36:40] muscular dystrophy, which is only about 1500 people in the [00:36:45] UK that have it.

Payman Langroudi: Oh my goodness.

James Morrison: At the time didn’t think we had any family history, so [00:36:50] it was just completely random. I always thought I was like the first mutation. It turns [00:36:55] out now since doing IVF with my wife so that we don’t pass on this condition, that actually my dad [00:37:00] has it. So we managed to find out that I got it from my dad. But yeah, essentially at that point. [00:37:05] I went into the dean of the dental school at the time, and I said to him, look like they can do an operation [00:37:10] where they fuse my scapula to the back of my rib cage, and it will allow me to lift my arms, [00:37:15] not fully, but much better. And it should help with like dentistry long term. [00:37:20] And they were amazing. Like Bristol Uni were like so supportive. I was worried actually, you know how people [00:37:25] got struck off. But you know label label like oh you know, fitness to practice all this [00:37:30] stuff. And I was like, they were really good about it. And yeah, there’s one surgeon in Oswestry [00:37:35] in Shropshire that’s done it like five times. And he’s like the most experienced because most people [00:37:40] just get on with it, to be honest. But yeah, I just thought I’m going to go for it and get it done. All done on the NHS. [00:37:45] He knew I was taking time out of dentistry and and yeah, he got me [00:37:50] in within a month or two for the first. They did do one at a time. They fused one side [00:37:55] upper body Spyker cast like your arms fused like this, right? This full [00:38:00] body cast with a bar going across it. And yeah, I had had to wear that for two [00:38:05] months. Sat at home with my mum. Interesting. Still kept the club nights going. [00:38:10]

James Morrison: So I was just there on Facebook. Yeah, I remember being in hospital at one point on the phone, like, [00:38:15] yeah, I had another guy, like being there at the event, like sorting things. So I still actually kept [00:38:20] paying my rent with my student mates because I didn’t really want to lose that. So. So yeah, I still [00:38:25] kept that kind of ticking over. Then I did the left side. It was a shame the first side got lots of complications [00:38:30] because I’m type one diabetic, so I got all these complications like infections, all this stuff. He [00:38:35] actually didn’t want to do the second, the second one because he was like, look, you went through hell and back by persuading him. I was [00:38:40] like, look, you can’t keep one side. You know? I’m like this like one side. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, [00:38:45] he did did the other side. Luckily that all went fine. And then I was hoping to only have a year [00:38:50] out, but it ended up being two years because of just the time it all took. And then yeah, interesting. [00:38:55] I then dropped down two years and rejoined second year and started second year again. [00:39:00] And the silver lining is I met my wife in that year. So yeah, she was in that year. [00:39:05] So I kind of see that as a, as a meant to be sort of thing in a way. Like even though it was [00:39:10] a crazy time, it gave me quite a lot of clarity because all my teenage years I [00:39:15] was like, why didn’t football work? What was that about? It was a huge question mark there. Yeah. Knowing [00:39:20] that was was quite important for me because I could sort of start to understand what was going on with [00:39:25] my body at the time.

Payman Langroudi: And muscular dystrophy. Does it only affect your scapula [00:39:30] or does it affect the rest of your body?

James Morrison: The fascia scapulohumeral sort of means fate is supposed to affect fate. I [00:39:35] do have difficulty blowing up a balloon, but I generally have pretty good facial function. Most [00:39:40] people with the condition can’t smile and have very limited facial expression, and [00:39:45] then scapulas the shoulder blades and then humerus upper arms. But since [00:39:50] like when I was first diagnosed, it’s evolved the diagnosis where it’s pretty random actually. [00:39:55] Like it affects like my left hamstring is shot. Like it’s really, really bad. I can’t run [00:40:00] anymore. Core muscles are really badly affected. So essentially if I don’t if I don’t [00:40:05] exercise, I waste like quick. So I’m quite big now on like prioritising [00:40:10] swimming gym but not from a like getting hench point of view. Just more from a physiotherapy [00:40:15] point of view. Yeah, I mean luckily it hasn’t impacted dentistry. And you know I do. [00:40:20] I have met other people with the condition and it’s affected their hands and things like that. Luckily my hand [00:40:25] strength is like abnormal. It’s almost gone the other way I think to compensate. So yeah, I’m [00:40:30] touchwood. I haven’t had many issues with dentistry other than occasional back pain, but that [00:40:35] is more when I just am not exercising. When I am exercising, the back pain [00:40:40] goes away. But I’ve tried to do all the things you know, like the saddle chair. I’ve got the loops [00:40:45] like the refractive, so I stay upright trying to change my position, things like that. So but [00:40:50] I think because of the core weakness, I’m always going to be prone to back pain.

Payman Langroudi: I think even more reason to do [00:40:55] fewer days, right? Yeah.

James Morrison: I mean, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, I’ve done it all like eight till eight, [00:41:00] five, six days a week. I’ve pushed myself to the extreme even with having muscular dystrophy. [00:41:05] And I know deep down it’s never it never ends well for me because I’m [00:41:10] like a cripple, basically. So yeah, I think if I could reduce the days not only for for my [00:41:15] health, but also just spend more time with my son. Really?

Payman Langroudi: So do you. You were [00:41:20] kind of. I class you as like a super associate. The kind of associate who had your own [00:41:25] following on social media and one of the biggest practices in the country. [00:41:30] The biggest practice in the country was in Weston super mare. Yeah. Um, how soon [00:41:35] did you get on to Instagram and figure out how to use that? Uh, [00:41:40] was it as soon as it came on it?

James Morrison: Interestingly, you remember the minimalist, the series of lectures you did and you [00:41:45] filmed.

Payman Langroudi: I forget the minimalist, the minimalist.

James Morrison: Like I was on a flight to America to go see my dad. [00:41:50] I bought it, it wasn’t a lot, £50 or whatever for the lecture series, and I just sat and watched [00:41:55] it and I was like, slim McGrath talking about Instagram. And you know you had Chris Moore on there. Depeche. [00:42:00] You were on there and I was like, Prav Prav was on there. And I was like, [00:42:05] this is good. Especially with the Instagram stuff. Yeah, that.

Payman Langroudi: Was my favourite lecture.

James Morrison: Yeah. You know, [00:42:10] when like I remember like Steve Jobs always said about his like creativity, he’s all about connecting [00:42:15] things and like it was like that, like dentistry fused with all the club nights [00:42:20] and the promotion. I was like, whoa, like that could work. And I was like, okay. [00:42:25] So yeah, when I got home, I was like, you know, I booked onto the Mini Smile makeover course, and and that [00:42:30] was another big light bulb moment for me in terms of just like, yeah, cosmetic dentistry and composite bonding. And [00:42:35] then, yeah, I just started doing it on like NHS patients and yeah, it just it just grew from there really. But I [00:42:40] would say like the transition like, you know, I was in that big Weston-super-Mare practice. Houston’s for [00:42:45] seven, seven years. I started off NHS, but it was very much like I was the [00:42:50] big UDA guy, very efficient. I was doing like 11,000 udas and [00:42:55] still doing quite a lot of lot private, but interestingly, you get that reaches a point where [00:43:00] you’re like, I can’t really get any quicker. I would say the transition from going from NHS to private was [00:43:05] just one day where BSA, you know, business service authority, instead of being like, oh, this guy’s hardworking. [00:43:10] This guy’s like putting in the hours.

James Morrison: It’s like full investigation as to why [00:43:15] I’m doing so many uda’s. They didn’t find anything. They were actually just like, this guy’s doing the normal [00:43:20] amount of dentistry that everyone else does, but just on a bigger scale. He’s not doing like a million night [00:43:25] guards or whatever, but it just made me think, like, do you know what? Like, there’s this. This is what you [00:43:30] get when you work hard in the NHS. Because I would be the guy if David was like, look, we’re behind [00:43:35] on Uda’s. I’d be doing like evenings and weekends and all this, but I was like, this [00:43:40] is the only kind of contribution that the NHS have shown me in terms of like what they think of my [00:43:45] work. And I was like, I don’t want this anymore. So I was like, I need to get into private, I need to go, I need to get [00:43:50] out of this. And and yeah, I got quite lucky break because David Houston [00:43:55] retired and because I was the big, you know, the big earner. He asked me [00:44:00] to take over his patient list, which I think was was a huge honour because then I went fully private. [00:44:05] And that really got me kind of in the private mindset. [00:44:10] The more quality over over speed for someone.

Payman Langroudi: For someone who doesn’t know about [00:44:15] that practice, just just tell, tell, tell some of the headlines [00:44:20] because I’ve been there like a little university, like the size of the place. How many chairs? [00:44:25]

James Morrison: 25. Maybe 25. I think it’s the biggest patients. I wouldn’t even know. Thousands. [00:44:30] I mean, it’s the biggest single site practice in the UK.

Payman Langroudi: It actually is. [00:44:35]

James Morrison: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How many hundreds or hundreds?

James Morrison: Yeah. Yeah. He just bought each [00:44:40] building on the road. So the houses there’s like one house in the middle who just were like just so, like [00:44:45] adamant they weren’t going to sell to him. So there’s just like one house in the middle that he’s been trying to buy for years. But [00:44:50] I think they’ve put in their will that he can’t like buy it or something. Um, but yeah, he’s got like, [00:44:55] I think 5 or 6 houses along the road. He’s bought the, the lab across the road and turned that [00:45:00] to a lecture theatre. I mean, it gets a bit of a bad rep. Houston’s in the southwest, but I think it’s more of a jealousy thing. But [00:45:05] actually, when I was there, David couldn’t have been a better boss. He asked me to take over [00:45:10] his patient list, and that was a huge break for me. And then, yeah, I started doing the Instagram. [00:45:15] You know, people like, you know, afan seguir. I went on his course. I was like a course junkie, [00:45:20] like I was like, once I got the inspiration from the minimalist, I was like, I’m just [00:45:25] going to go on loads of courses and just feel confident. So yeah, I went on like an Invisalign restorative [00:45:30] course. The mini smile makeover obviously did the Invisalign course. I think I did like 260 [00:45:35] hours of CPD that year. And then I started doing the Instagram [00:45:40] as well, posting some of my work. But I mean, it wasn’t like anything crazy at that time. [00:45:45] It wasn’t great. Amazing work. You just have to treat the right people like there’s like a one guy [00:45:50] who’s like a model in Weston-super-Mare who was luckily already my patient, and [00:45:55] he was like, look, I’m trying to why want composite bonding? I was like, oh, I’m trying to do Instagram.

James Morrison: He had 15 000 followers [00:46:00] and they’re the best ones, I think, like the real local influencers. Yeah, yeah, they can [00:46:05] put you on the map if you go for like big scale ones. I had one girl that’s like 350, 000 followers. [00:46:10] Nothing, got nothing back from it. And she was I ended up redoing her work seven times. Like that was [00:46:15] a big learning curve for me, and I got nothing out of it because all the all her followers are like, [00:46:20] international. Yeah, yeah. Whereas Ethan, this Ethan Smith guy, he’d post [00:46:25] instantly 20 people in and then literally just grew from there. Got to the point [00:46:30] where the Instagram was so busy that I had to pass all of David [00:46:35] Houston’s patients onto someone else. And I would say that was just after [00:46:40] Covid, because what happened while everyone else was like having a break from dentistry, I [00:46:45] was doing my consultations, video consultations. I think I did about 300, [00:46:50] right? And then when I went back to work, I had 300 [00:46:55] patients who were like, hadn’t spent any money on anything, who all ready to go, all [00:47:00] wanted to book in. And that was when I realised if you streamline [00:47:05] your business into something that people want, it can just explode. The [00:47:10] figures were ridiculous that first month when I went back after it was like 145 K revenue [00:47:15] month, and I was like, whoa, you know, [00:47:20] when you’re like, this is my wife. Look at this. Did you go.

Payman Langroudi: To the Porsche [00:47:25] garage?

James Morrison: We were like, jumping around. I was like, what has happened? But [00:47:30] it was just crazy. It was a crazy.

Payman Langroudi: Time, man. It was a.

James Morrison: Crazy. And then my boss was like. Right. David’s [00:47:35] patients, they need to go to someone else. You need to just do this. And that was it. And then I just. That was when [00:47:40] I decided to go fully cosmetic. Maybe a bit of the history of doing the club nights [00:47:45] meant I was a bit more savvy with making things look good and you know, to give.

Payman Langroudi: Some tips, [00:47:50] some top tips regarding Instagram.

James Morrison: It’s obviously harder nowadays, I would say.

Payman Langroudi: Are you on TikTok [00:47:55] by the way? No no no.

James Morrison: No I I’m not like one for like dancing [00:48:00] around.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not TikTok’s not dancing.

James Morrison: Oh I know if I do actually [00:48:05] set up my own practice and have associates, I need to fill chairs and I need the business. [00:48:10] I probably would do it right. At the moment I am like fully saturated [00:48:15] as a one man team. It’s a bit like, do I need it? Like if anything? Because I would say just after [00:48:20] Covid, I had a six month waiting list and I had about 50 [00:48:25] new patient inquiries a week. It was too much like I was like trying to [00:48:30] get patients in. The patient’s not happy because they have to wait. All of this stuff go on. The top.

Payman Langroudi: Tips, top [00:48:35] tips, top.

James Morrison: Tips. Competitions are good. Free smile makeover. Yeah, all [00:48:40] of that. Each time I’ve got a big increase of followers. It’s mainly because of the competition.

Payman Langroudi: Matty did [00:48:45] that too, I remember.

James Morrison: Yeah, that was crazy.

Payman Langroudi: Episode 107. For anyone who wants to listen to that, I’ve [00:48:50] recommended that episode to so many people.

James Morrison: Oh, mate, that was crazy. Competitions. [00:48:55] All of us were just sat eating popcorn watching this competition. Yeah, the competition still work. Not [00:49:00] as well, but they do. Still. They generate more. They generate followers, [00:49:05] but more so they just generate enquiries. So you just get more and more business really, when you do [00:49:10] competitions. Suddenly you’re just getting all these new patient enquiries because your page is hot and Instagram are putting [00:49:15] it like on everyone’s profiles. I think getting people to obviously share your before and after. So there are lots [00:49:20] of people are like your promoters because they’re kind of getting their friends to see the story and [00:49:25] then someone’s like oh right, okay. Who’s this? What’s this picture?

Payman Langroudi: Well, run us quickly through. What is it? What [00:49:30] is it? How does the competition work? Competition?

James Morrison: I mean, very much like, get someone to like, a picture, [00:49:35] comment and tag three friends. Matty, when he [00:49:40] really blew up, did it cleverly because it was like all three friends. You tag have to be following the page as well. [00:49:45] So that’s why he went up to like 100 K followers or 4000 or 4000. [00:49:50] I haven’t, like, blown up like that. You know, I think maybe the most I’ve got out of the competition is maybe like [00:49:55] 10,000 followers or something. Pretty good. It’s not bad. And then yeah, getting people to share your before [00:50:00] and afters helps because then they’re just spreading it amongst their friends. So your [00:50:05] friends, their friends are visibly seeing your work and then they end up inquiring [00:50:10] or maybe entering the competition themselves. I would say that’s important. Trying not to have like, [00:50:15] you know, just the blanket kind of stock image type stuff where it’s just like a random [00:50:20] person, like with like smiles saying, brush your teeth twice a day. And I think, I think [00:50:25] having like, authentic real life footage with whether it’s you, [00:50:30] whether it’s patients, whether it’s your own work, I think is is key.

Payman Langroudi: How often [00:50:35] do you post?

James Morrison: Oh, I’m so bad now. Like, I, I used to be more into it, I think since having [00:50:40] a child and then, I don’t know, just you just become, like, less often. [00:50:45]

Payman Langroudi: Did you post?

James Morrison: I’d probably. I did post, I still didn’t. Wasn’t posting enough, but [00:50:50] maybe 2 or 3 times a week I would say. Whereas now I’m like once a week. Yeah, [00:50:55] just because you kind of run out of ideas as well, right? With dentistry, it’s quite like limited, you know, just, you know, [00:51:00] teeth and like how really creative can you be with it. If I had a need there in [00:51:05] terms of I needed to put bums on chairs, probably would be posting more. But at the moment, because [00:51:10] I’m like mainly going through word of mouth, that’s enough. I’d say engagement now is a lot harder. [00:51:15] They’re obviously trying to go down the TikTok route, trying to get more like virality. So yeah, they’re [00:51:20] the kind of videos and pictures that are really blow up the big ones. I kind of see it as I try [00:51:25] not to read too much into the engagement, and I try and just think it’s essentially more like a portfolio, [00:51:30] like a patient of mine will say to a friend or, you know, go see James’s Instagram. I’ve had [00:51:35] work done with him. If you want to go see him, go on his Instagram. They go on my Instagram, they see my work, and [00:51:40] then they inquire. So that for me is the function of of the Instagram [00:51:45] page, more so now than necessarily getting loads of likes and loads of comments.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been in Mini Smile [00:51:50] Makeover a couple of times, where we asked that question about who here has a Dental page, and [00:51:55] out of the 30 delegates generally it’s like five have [00:52:00] a Dental page. I think it’s weird with dentistry there’s a lot.

James Morrison: Of like judgement, I think, [00:52:05] between dentists. Yeah. So so it’s like, I think it’s quite a scary [00:52:10] place.

Payman Langroudi: And we ask the question why not. Right. And people say, oh, I’m worried what other dentists [00:52:15] will say. I don’t want my auntie to be exposed to teeth the whole time. [00:52:20] And we get the reasons why. But if someone was going to start and, you know, there’s [00:52:25] people listen to this, they’re in dental school. Some of them are end of their careers. The whole [00:52:30] the whole spectrum of the profession is listening sometimes. Yeah. It’s always going to [00:52:35] start. How long would you say? I mean, now yours has built momentum to the point where you can post [00:52:40] once a week and you can still pay your kids school fees, right? You know, if you want to compare [00:52:45] it like that. Yeah. How long would you say you’d have to stick at it before seeing results? Because, I mean, you’ve [00:52:50] done so many small makeovers now that the critical mass builds of word of [00:52:55] mouth, you know, word of mouth is an exponential kind of thing.

James Morrison: Yeah. Of course.

Payman Langroudi: But if you were just starting out, [00:53:00] like I think that you have to, my advice is stick at it for a year.

James Morrison: I’d [00:53:05] say, yeah, six, six months or a year. I think if you want to elevate it in terms of your exposure, just treating [00:53:10] the right people and doing some kind of deals here or there, I really because I really wanted to do cosmetic [00:53:15] dentistry, I wanted to get more patients through the door. So I was doing things like giving [00:53:20] you even, not even big followers, but just giving people some free whitening, and then they just like [00:53:25] post about their free whitening on Instagram and tag my page. You know, I was doing quite a few things [00:53:30] like that just to get some exposure. I would say like really try [00:53:35] not to fear the judgement of others because ultimately we all start somewhere and you have [00:53:40] to obviously improve over time. So if I look back on some of my first posts, I’m like, oh my God, I can’t believe I posted [00:53:45] that. But actually, patients aren’t as critical as you think. And also dentists aren’t [00:53:50] as as critical as you think. People are actually quite supportive. And I think getting over that fear factor initially [00:53:55] and sticking at it. And then I’d say nowadays it’s harder to get your page out [00:54:00] there. So just getting patients to do that for you is is key.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [00:54:05] get to the darker part of the pod. The darker part. [00:54:10] We like to talk about mistakes. Okay. Yeah. What comes to mind when I say clinical errors or [00:54:15] it doesn’t have to be clinical error? It could be a management error like that. That patient you said you repeated seven times. [00:54:20] That sounds like a juicy story. Yeah.

James Morrison: Like I had only really started doing cosmetic [00:54:25] dentistry and she had like 400,000 followers. And I thought it would be a good idea just to do three. It was supposed [00:54:30] to start with just free whitening, but then she wanted composite bonding and I thought, oh yeah, no, that’s fine. [00:54:35] So I did a little bit of bonding, didn’t like it. I had to redo it, Didn’t like it again. And then you [00:54:40] realise I actually got pro clean teeth and that’s the problem. I’ve done a wax up just to show her what [00:54:45] it could look like. If I do it a different way, then I’m now doing composite bonding on six teeth to compensate for [00:54:50] the fact that these pro clined incisors aren’t great. I don’t want to do Invisalign [00:54:55] because that’s going to be a massive lab bill. So I kind of it kind of escalated [00:55:00] and I would say, yeah, it got to the point where I think I was like, yeah, on my seventh time of revising [00:55:05] this work that I’ve done.

Payman Langroudi: Completely charged to a dollar.

James Morrison: I haven’t charged her a.

Payman Langroudi: Dollar, and she’s. [00:55:10]

James Morrison: Done like one post and I got nothing from it. That was like [00:55:15] a real lesson where I’m like, okay, do I need the like [00:55:20] the big influencers? Because most of the time they are the hardest work. You know, they [00:55:25] often are the bigger egos and the more perfectionist OCD [00:55:30] patients. So I would say nowadays, unless I had to say if I bought a practice [00:55:35] and needed more, more exposure. I would say now I wouldn’t give any freebies [00:55:40] to to an influencer because just because I’m busy enough, because I also think when you give stuff for free, [00:55:45] you do run this risk of them not really appreciating it. Yeah. Um, what about technical [00:55:50] error? I had this one girl who’s had a bit of a strange request [00:55:55] where she wanted goofy teeth. She wanted big teeth. Like [00:56:00] she didn’t want square. She wanted, like, the front two to be a lot longer. And she [00:56:05] was showing me all these pictures, and I was like, this is random. And I’m like, it’s not normally what I would do. But, [00:56:10] you know, me being like Mr. Nice People pleaser, I’m like, well, you know, cosmetic [00:56:15] dentistry is subjective. It’s her opinion. At the end of the day, why? Who am I to judge and say that’s wrong? [00:56:20] Yeah.

James Morrison: But then it kind of evolved because she was doing Invisalign anyway because the teeth were crowded. [00:56:25] But then she was showing me pictures of her teeth, the teeth that she liked. And I’m like, they’re a lot bigger than your [00:56:30] teeth. So the only way to go get teeth that big is to open up spaces with Invisalign, to then [00:56:35] close those faces with bigger teeth. So we went through all that. I started opening up spaces. [00:56:40] Yeah. This is how adamant she was. She wanted big [00:56:45] teeth, right? So I open up spaces to then give her these massive teeth. Obviously, [00:56:50] she had a breakdown because she said she looked like a donkey, right? It was like [00:56:55] the first time where I was, like, being really led by the patient, where it’s a bit like, [00:57:00] oh, yeah, we’ll do that because you’ve asked for that rather than me put my foot down and say, look, I don’t I don’t think [00:57:05] that’s a good idea. So I then was then reversing what we’d done. So I was then like, well, the only [00:57:10] way to get these much smaller now is to open up the spaces again and then take the composite [00:57:15] away, close the gaps again.

Payman Langroudi: What a nightmare.

James Morrison: So yeah. So [00:57:20] we did like multiple invisaligns opening the spaces to then close the spaces. And yeah, I revised [00:57:25] her bonding 3 or 4 times. But yeah, we got the final [00:57:30] result in the end. Like she was really happy and and because she was on board with the fact that [00:57:35] what she was requesting wasn’t normal, and because she liked the fact that I was happy to do the [00:57:40] revisions at no extra charge, and I was generally just a nice guy about it, she she actually [00:57:45] was on board with the whole thing. She she didn’t complain or anything. Um, but she learned a lesson. [00:57:50] There was a lot of time, a lot of time wasted in that. The [00:57:55] patient has now moved to Australia, so we should be okay. We should be okay [00:58:00] now. Although she’s now sending me pictures of Doctor Duval’s porcelain veneers and [00:58:05] like, what do you think to these porcelain veneers? Do you reckon I should do this? I’m like, yeah, that guy’s like two grand a tooth. [00:58:10]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, they are beautiful.

James Morrison: I’m like, yeah, it works. It works for Nicolas. I don’t know, I guess [00:58:15] maybe just when I do my revisions, I’m doing it for free. I’m not charging the patient. [00:58:20] I probably do waste a lot of clinical time revising things at no charge, [00:58:25] but I don’t ever get any complaints. And people are happy and people recommend me. [00:58:30] But I would say I do Compromise myself. Like, well, actually, you [00:58:35] decided that shade and therefore it’s going to be X figure.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a feature of cosmetic dentistry, man. [00:58:40] It’s a feature of it. I mean, that’s why you need to charge properly for it in the first place. Well yeah.

James Morrison: That’s it. And [00:58:45] and I do think it doesn’t happen that often, especially now I’m more proficient with it. When it does happen. You are [00:58:50] like more clinical time, more you know, the priority.

Payman Langroudi: The priority is the patient recommends [00:58:55] another patient. Yeah. And you know, as long as there’s lots of new patients coming in, most [00:59:00] practices are going to be most problems will be solved by new patients [00:59:05] coming in. Yeah. Yeah. And it looks like you’ve you’ve taken care of that. Your your patients [00:59:10] are leaving delighted enough that they’re telling other people to come in a difficult city. Bristol isn’t [00:59:15] a cosmetically orientated. It’s not it’s not a Manchester or a London. No it’s not or [00:59:20] even a I’d say Glasgow or a Leeds even, you know, I mean even Leeds has become like this cosmetic [00:59:25] town. Yeah, crazy. But Bristol isn’t like that.

James Morrison: It’s not.

Payman Langroudi: Bristol isn’t, as you know, culturally, [00:59:30] not like that though difficult, in a town where it’s not so cosmetically orientated to to make [00:59:35] such a success of it. So, you know, my hat’s off to you. You’ve done this. Let’s [00:59:40] move on to the future. Um, what [00:59:45] do you reckon? If I had you here in five years time, what would be your sort of [00:59:50] ideal situation that you’ve got in five years time? I mean.

James Morrison: Yeah, my ambition. [00:59:55] Yeah, would definitely be to own a building. At the moment, I’m just renting a room. I’m very much [01:00:00] like a one man team. I’ve got employ my own nurse, my own receptionist. It’s nice. [01:00:05] It’s comfortable. Patients are happy. So if I lived like this for the rest of my life, actually, you know, [01:00:10] it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. But I think I am getting to a point where I’m getting itchy feet [01:00:15] to, like, for a new challenge. And I do feel like my dream has always been to own [01:00:20] my own practice. So, yeah, I mean, you know, there’s talks at the moment of potentially buying the building that [01:00:25] I’m working in at the moment, but not nothing too big, you know, I think 3 or [01:00:30] 4 dentists, each with their own speciality. My wife’s a dentist as well, so us two running [01:00:35] the practice, her doing all the behind the scenes admin stuff. She wants to do a bit of facial aesthetics so [01:00:40] she could do that as well. But yeah, just getting that really nice, high quality family feel practice, [01:00:45] which also kind of runs itself in the fact that we’ve got a good practice manager in there. [01:00:50] If I go on holiday at the moment, the business sort of just dies because I’m I am the business. [01:00:55] So it’s like that’s the business is still ticking over. I could actually reduce my [01:01:00] days and have passive income coming in. So I feel, yeah, that [01:01:05] that would be my dream. I think in the next hopefully in the next couple of years we’d have [01:01:10] have that I guess, see where it goes from there. You can’t say no to like, multiple practices, but I feel like I’m at the moment, I [01:01:15] feel like one practice would be enough.

Payman Langroudi: Nothing wrong with.

James Morrison: That for for me. And then, yeah, me [01:01:20] and my wife doing IVF at the moment and it’s been a long journey that. So hopefully [01:01:25] baby number two will be on the horizon. But if not, like we’ve got a two [01:01:30] and a half year old at the moment who’s like such an awesome little dude. I think just yeah, spending time with family. [01:01:35] We’ve just put an offer in for a house, which we’ll be moving into in the next few months. Definitely the [01:01:40] forever ever home, the big plot, just like, yeah, enjoying family life [01:01:45] and and yeah, hopefully having our own own practice as well.

Payman Langroudi: What if you [01:01:50] had an afternoon without any family work. [01:01:55] Nothing. No responsibilities. Mhm. That’s that seems like hasn’t happened [01:02:00] in a while. Yeah. What would you do really.

James Morrison: That really hasn’t happened for a while I really [01:02:05] just, I really, I really quite like a spa day you know, just like.

Payman Langroudi: You need a break. You [01:02:10] were like.

James Morrison: A little heated outdoor pool massage and just [01:02:15] yeah, read a magazine or a book, that kind of thing, which I like. Me and my wife were [01:02:20] talking about that at the moment. We’re like, yeah, we really need to book something. It’s all been like, [01:02:25] go, go, go for what feels like 3 or 4 years. Really, [01:02:30] I think just something super chilled. Maybe I maybe I’ll book a spa day.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [01:02:35] finish with the usual questions. Fantasy dinner party. [01:02:40] Three guests, dead or alive? Who would you pick?

James Morrison: I’m [01:02:45] obsessed with the iPhone and Apple, so Steve Jobs is [01:02:50] like, yeah, an incredible human being. His ability [01:02:55] to create and his vision is just like, so inspiring. I remember reading [01:03:00] in his autobiography about how he used to spend ages designing the inside of the iPhone. You know, [01:03:05] the actual mechanics, how that looked, knowing no one would see it, that attention to detail [01:03:10] about beauty, even when no one will even see it, I felt like has [01:03:15] stuck with me. So there’s times I’m doing my dentistry and I’m like spending ages on the back of [01:03:20] the tooth, which the patients are never going to see, and you just get to the point where you just become such a perfectionist [01:03:25] is that those little things matter.

Payman Langroudi: Listen, man, and most of dentistry. No one’s looking. [01:03:30] Yeah. That’s true. And that does come down to your professionalism as a dentist, right? Of [01:03:35] course. Yeah. And, you know, we said that what you alluded to it the the more you [01:03:40] you do it. Well the longer it takes. Yeah. And, you know, that’s [01:03:45] the sort of the way people pay you and all that needs to reflect that. Of course. Yeah. Go [01:03:50] on, Steve Jobs. He’s he’s been invited before. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s see who else you got. [01:03:55]

James Morrison: I’m a massive fan of of Michael Jackson, even though [01:04:00] I know strange character, especially towards the end with all his drama. But his [01:04:05] his work the the again, his creativity. I wouldn’t necessarily [01:04:10] even sit and necessarily listen to his music, but just his whole aura, his you know, I love watching his, [01:04:15] like, stage performances. Like if I’m like on a day where I just want a bit of inspiration, just watching [01:04:20] him like live at Wembley during like the.

Payman Langroudi: So you don’t talk about Michael having dinner with you? He’s just in the corner dancing. [01:04:25] He’s dancing away.

James Morrison: It’s [01:04:30] just like there’s something about that he’s.

Payman Langroudi: Come up before to go [01:04:35] on for.

James Morrison: Um. Oh, God. Who else? Who else do I have? [01:04:40] Maybe a sports person. Like, maybe. Yeah. Like, obviously football was a huge thing for football. Cristiano.

Payman Langroudi: Cristiano [01:04:45] Ronaldo.

James Morrison: Yeah. Cristiano. I’m a Manchester United fan. Yeah. Cristiano. Just. Yeah. His [01:04:50] his ability and just seeing what he can do even he’s an artist. You know the way he [01:04:55] plays and yeah how successful he’s been. Probably say Cristiano. [01:05:00] Yeah. Amazing for sure.

Payman Langroudi: I mean because like Michael Jackson [01:05:05] dancing in the corner. You, Cristiano and Steve Jobs chatting. [01:05:10] Final question. It’s the deathbed question. Mhm. If [01:05:15] you had to leave three pieces of advice for your loved ones on [01:05:20] your deathbed, what would they be.

James Morrison: A big thing that I’ve learned, which actually happens with, [01:05:25] I guess, with age, is you sort of just just to care a lot less about sort of the judgement [01:05:30] of other people just not having that fear of judgement because [01:05:35] I feel that holds so many people back. I feel like just being confident with who you are, with your [01:05:40] flaws and warts and all, good at, yeah, whatever you’re good at, whatever you’re bad at just just staying true [01:05:45] to yourself and being confident with that because we’re all just we’re all individuals. We all have our own unique [01:05:50] things. But yeah, I think as soon as you start trying to, like, change yourself to try and suit other people, [01:05:55] I don’t think that’s a healthy way to live. And I think since having Quinn like my son, that’s really [01:06:00] I think that’s really important. I think just generally like, do whatever makes you happy. [01:06:05] Life’s far too short. And yeah, you don’t want to live with any regrets. So just, just do [01:06:10] what’s going to make you happy. You know, they say like money can’t buy happiness, but that definitely [01:06:15] helps, you know, maybe get a good job in there as well. Because because I’ve lived growing up without a lot of money, it can be [01:06:20] stressful.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been brilliant. It’s brilliant. It’s been lovely to have you. [01:06:25] Yeah.

James Morrison: No, I’ve enjoyed it.

Payman Langroudi: Finally. Finally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks [01:06:30] a lot for taking the time to come all the way down here. Really appreciate it.

James Morrison: I really appreciate it. It’s been a lot of fun.

Payman Langroudi: Enjoyed [01:06:35] that. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, [01:06:40] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [01:06:45] Your hosts, Payman [01:06:50] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If [01:06:55] you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and [01:07:00] pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, [01:07:05] because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about [01:07:10] subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get [01:07:15] some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating. [01:07:20]