Payman Langroudi: You must have had the conversation about sort of rebranding all of them in the same brand, [00:00:05] because they’re all in the same area, same area. And when there’s that concentration in [00:00:10] the same area that the branding thing actually makes a lot more sense. Yes. Have you have you thought about [00:00:15] that?

Polly Bhambra: So we we thought about rebranding under Dental. Yeah. Payman. [00:00:20] We learned very quickly, very early, very quickly that each practice has their own [00:00:25] idiosyncrasies. Yeah. And if you are a little practice, two surgeries in a little [00:00:30] village in Codsall, and then all of a sudden you’ve been bought out by Dental. Oh, my [00:00:35] God, it’s gone all corporate. Yeah.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:40] is Dental Leaders, the [00:00:45] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [00:00:50] Your hosts Payman Langroudi [00:00:55] and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome [00:01:00] Polly Bambera onto the podcast. Polly is a owner [00:01:05] of a group of dental practices, a part owner of one of three. I guess [00:01:10] that’s why they’re called Tri Dental, because there’s three of you, um, a group of ten dental practices [00:01:15] in the West Midlands. Polly’s own history is very interesting. Started as a dental nurse, [00:01:20] um, and with your brother and a dentist. Started [00:01:25] this group. They’re not branded, are they?

Polly Bhambra: They’re all individual, um, under [00:01:30] their own names that we bought the practices under.

Payman Langroudi: So you bought all of them? Existing?

Polly Bhambra: Existing? Yes. [00:01:35] All existing retiring dentists. So we thought we could purchase these practices [00:01:40] and add value to them.

Payman Langroudi: So we’ll get we’ll get to your backstory because I’m very [00:01:45] interested in your backstory, but I like to start with the burning question in my head. And the burning [00:01:50] question is, as a nurse, someone who’s done nursing. Yeah. How [00:01:55] different is it for someone who works as a nurse in the group now. [00:02:00] What have you done differently? You know. What were the. What are the frustrations that itch that you scratched? [00:02:05] Do you are your nurses in a different situation than everyone else’s nurses?

Polly Bhambra: Yeah. I remember [00:02:10] being, um, when I was nursing Payman. You know, the dentist on the spot would do [00:02:15] treatment, and, you know, patients come in for a check-up and they’ll just do a treatment, [00:02:20] run into lunch. You’d work through your lunch and you didn’t say anything, and you just got on with it. [00:02:25] And we’ve tried to really change that, instil that in our dentists that we’re a team. Everybody’s [00:02:30] equal. Running into lunch is not acceptable. The long days as it is. And [00:02:35] nurses, dental nurses, it’s quite challenging in the fact that you want everything [00:02:40] to run smoothly. So, um, we’ve changed. I’m really restricted. Dentists running into [00:02:45] lunch hours, running late. Um, and if you are wanting to run late [00:02:50] or you want to do a patient after work, it’s not just a given. A nurse will be available. You’ve got to [00:02:55] ask your nurse. Are you happy for that? If you can’t do it tonight. Can it be another night? So it’s a mutual respect [00:03:00] for each other. I ensure that our equipment and materials are readily available. [00:03:05] There’s nothing worse. As a dental nurse, you’re running in and out of surgery because you haven’t got the stock [00:03:10] or your suction stop working or something’s not right. So we really try hard as [00:03:15] as a group to ensure that our equipment is up to date. No surgeries have got air con, [00:03:20] you’ve got intraoral cameras. So there’s other ways of having conversations. And nurses [00:03:25] are involved in that patient’s journey. We love for our nurses to scan all our patients. [00:03:30] We’ve got itero scanners and other scanners within the group. We want them to [00:03:35] excel, to carry on, to do other roles as TCO front [00:03:40] of house marketing. So it just doesn’t stop. As a dental nurse, there’s no such thing as I’m [00:03:45] just a dental nurse that’s gone for me. There’s no such thing as [00:03:50] I’m just a nurse.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a big issue in our profession. Yes, that is difficult. [00:03:55] Not impossible as you’re showing. Right. But it’s difficult to organise career progression [00:04:00] within practices. You get lots of breaks. I’ve been to thousands of practices. [00:04:05] Where? Yes, you’ve got a receptionist who’s been there for 22 years. Yes. Doing the same job for 22 [00:04:10] years. Or a nurse who’s been there for years and years. What are you doing about progression, or do you have stories? [00:04:15] Do you have stories of someone who joined you at 17 and is now regional manager or something like that? [00:04:20]

Polly Bhambra: So we’ve got, um, our success stories, I would say. So [00:04:25] it just goes back from recruitment. When we recruit, we look at can they do the job? [00:04:30] Have they got the qualifications? Will they do the job, the mindsets or the attitude? The [00:04:35] skill set? Will they fit in? And the fourth element [00:04:40] of that recruitment policy is can we help them develop. So can we help them develop this. [00:04:45] You know, you’re a trainee nurse. You’ve become qualified right. Get onto the radiography course. [00:04:50] What else can you do. Suture removal, impression taking, scanning the TCO role. [00:04:55] And I’ve got one of my nurses who started back with me about 15 years ago at [00:05:00] one of my practices. She started off as a trainee straight from school. She’s our lead nurse [00:05:05] and as we are developing, she will probably become sort of my clinic [00:05:10] manager, the ops manager for this particular practice, which is nine surgeries and she’s [00:05:15] got all of her post qualifications. We’ve supported her. She went on to the implant training course. [00:05:20] So she’s implant trained, she’s radiographer. She’s done, you know, all the other [00:05:25] post-operative qualifications that you possibly can. So there is room for development. But it also [00:05:30] comes back to the nurses that they want to develop.

Polly Bhambra: Some are happy just coming in, doing [00:05:35] the job, going home. But it’s important that there’s a process that they [00:05:40] follow when you are on site. You know, one of our other receptionists, she was a receptionist, non [00:05:45] dental non-clinical from retail and now she’s our head receptionist. And [00:05:50] when I mean she’s got reception on lockdown, she is amazing and [00:05:55] everything has a process, so it negates the whole blame. Like she didn’t do this or [00:06:00] he didn’t do that. That’s why it’s gone wrong. So it negates all that blame culture moving [00:06:05] away from that, where people were too scared to speak up if they’d made a mistake [00:06:10] or they’d broken something and they obviously I don’t have poker face, [00:06:15] but they can say, Polly, your face gives it away when somebody comes and tells you that, oh, I’ve broken [00:06:20] the apex hook and I’m trying to be, oh, it’s okay, accidents happen. But my face [00:06:25] is saying something else. So we’ve moved that blame culture away. So speak up. Have [00:06:30] a voice, you’ll be heard. But let’s move together. We all make mistakes. Let’s move together [00:06:35] and we can resolve them.

Payman Langroudi: And look, these. You’ve become ten practices by acquisition. [00:06:40] Yes, yes. Do you sometimes buy a practice? And then once you once [00:06:45] you’ve bought it, the staff are just amazed at your approach compared to the previous [00:06:50] owner’s approach, because there’s a massive problem with hierarchy and lack of [00:06:55] respect in our profession. I mean, there’s been a lot of talk recently about women in dentistry [00:07:00] and why more women don’t lecture and so on. But I’ve been banging on about this. The biggest [00:07:05] issue with women in dentistry is the way that dentists treat nurses, hygienist, receptionists sometimes. [00:07:10]

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, I think it’s just it’s such a shame because they have there is this element of arrogance with [00:07:15] dentists that dentists are, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Some dentists, right.

Polly Bhambra: Some, [00:07:20] some, some not all because we have got some fantastic dentists in our group. We did have some [00:07:25] dentists who thought equals dentist equals God, but they’re no longer part [00:07:30] of our organisation. And it’s such a shame. Payman because the dental [00:07:35] nurses, the hygienist reception team are so valuable and sometimes they [00:07:40] fail to see, you know, we use this analogy of the jigsaw puzzle. Every piece [00:07:45] is equal to each other to have the full picture to work as a team. One piece is not [00:07:50] aligned. Your values are not aligned. You haven’t got the full picture. The patient. [00:07:55] What we say the patient first ethos that is not applied because they have got their own agenda, [00:08:00] they don’t abide by, say abide, but they don’t follow the same values as what we want them [00:08:05] to do. So yes, there is that. Nurses are not fairly treated or hygienists [00:08:10] aren’t. But we try and have these open forums within our teams. We have [00:08:15] our Training and skills day where we train together, where you learn and you train together. You connect [00:08:20] and you learn from each other. Where we share our practices down for a day and [00:08:25] we’ll have a hands on session for the clinicians. The practice managers will have their own session [00:08:30] regarding anything from handling patient complaints, mental capacity, and [00:08:35] nurses will have theirs.

Polly Bhambra: Anything from, um, you know, cross-infection to nursing [00:08:40] skills, how they can apply that. And then they come together in the afternoon and we have, [00:08:45] um, like a motivational speaker. Last year was managing change [00:08:50] with motivation, and it was, um, a young lady who from a [00:08:55] from a young lady to a male transgender and how they manage their change [00:09:00] and how they manage that. And it was amazing. So if you if that person had asked me, could you [00:09:05] show me where the toilets are, I would be directing them to the men’s toilets. That’s how fantastic [00:09:10] the journey had been for them. And they talked about their whole journey from from a young lady [00:09:15] to a male transgender. And so it’s getting them to understand things can be difficult. Yes, [00:09:20] we have to what we call flex ourselves when we’re at work and you have to go with the flow. We’re [00:09:25] not rigid. And yes, things happen and things go wrong from time to time. But as [00:09:30] a team, as a collective, we have to be supportive of each other and not have [00:09:35] that blame. It’s a process. Hence, all these processes are in place that [00:09:40] you have a process, you follow it if you don’t follow the process and [00:09:45] you feel it’s broken, let’s have a conversation.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but my question do you get resistance [00:09:50] to that change sometimes?

Polly Bhambra: Oh, yes.

Payman Langroudi: When you buy a practice.

Polly Bhambra: Oh, yes. You [00:09:55] must do right. Yes. So when first practice, 2010. I bought the practice [00:10:00] in July. First Christmas I said, okay, let’s get the Christmas tree out. Let’s see [00:10:05] what it’s, you know, let’s spruce the place up. And the tree looked a bit haggard. So I thought, you know [00:10:10] what, I’ll nip into town, order it. In those days, Amazon wasn’t as active that you could [00:10:15] pick up the phone and, you know, online book something so nipped in town, bought a Christmas tree and I [00:10:20] bought I think it was pink baubles and pink, you know, all the decorations. And [00:10:25] I got told by one of the receptionist, we don’t have pink baubles, we only have green and red baubles. [00:10:30] So I suggest you return the tree because we’re a traditional family practice and [00:10:35] we only have traditional Christmas tree with green and red.

Payman Langroudi: How interesting.

Polly Bhambra: How interesting. How [00:10:40] did you handle that? Guess what? The pink baubles went up and everything turned [00:10:45] pink in that waiting room and they were not impressed. Even to the silliest things. Payman [00:10:50] one practice we bought the practice and I purchased like you buy the the shopping [00:10:55] and you know the tea and coffee. I bought a different brand coffee. Yeah. And I [00:11:00] was told we only drink Nescafé here, so I suggest you go and buy Nescafé. I [00:11:05] mean, that’s how petty some of the change that we’ve had to handle. Change from answering [00:11:10] the phone. They’d leave the phone ringing. I’m like, guys, answer the phone. Answer it with a [00:11:15] smile. It’s not dental surgery. Can I help? No. You know, it was little [00:11:20] things. So resistance has been there. So therefore external sort of mentors [00:11:25] have had to come in and support reception teams, the nursing team, the clinicians. And [00:11:30] yes.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, it’s a fine line, isn’t it, between, you know, you come in, you might be there’s a lot of [00:11:35] first of all, people worried, you know, the new boss, right. Yeah. Change Change is going to change [00:11:40] or not? Yes. And I don’t know what you know. You’ve done this enough times. Now that you can [00:11:45] tell me what’s the best advice is the best advice not to immediately change [00:11:50] stuff and just reassure everyone that everything’s going to be okay. And then evolution [00:11:55] or, you know, Dev Patel’s angle is like, rip the place down [00:12:00] so that no one could even recognise it and start.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, I get that. We [00:12:05] I think we tried that one the, the whole Dev Patel strategy. But for us, I think [00:12:10] because we’ve kept the same names of the practices, obviously they needed a spruce [00:12:15] up because by the time the retiring dentist is.

Payman Langroudi: The reason you were buying them. Right? Because they had [00:12:20] some potential potential.

Polly Bhambra: So we’re buying practices that needed add value. So they were not computerised. [00:12:25] No digital X-rays. They were still using, you know, wash dry, fix [00:12:30] dry. You know those liquids. Well let’s go.

Payman Langroudi: To let’s go into it. So are you looking for I mean are you [00:12:35] looking to buy any more? At the moment.

Polly Bhambra: We have ten in our group. So we’ve been consolidating and [00:12:40] making sure that everything is absolutely watertight. And yes, if a practice comes [00:12:45] on the market and we get approached saying, okay, this is a situation for your.

Payman Langroudi: Target [00:12:50] kind of practice, what’s your ideal target practice? How many chairs NHS private. What’s the story? [00:12:55]

Polly Bhambra: Definitely three plus like four chairs which is great. You could have three clinicians [00:13:00] and a hygienist. Stroke therapist. That works really well. Yeah. Plan which is really, [00:13:05] really important in.

Payman Langroudi: Place in.

Polly Bhambra: Place because I feel we are very plan [00:13:10] heavy and that saved us during Covid. Yeah. If we had been fully private we would be having a [00:13:15] different conversation now. We are heavy on plan. We we have a plan [00:13:20] and we have practice plan. And honestly, we made a point of ringing every [00:13:25] patient over the age of 70 vulnerable basically, and had a call with them during Covid. [00:13:30] We sent out every plan patient, some interdental brushes with a letter saying, I [00:13:35] know we’re closed, but we’re here for you. We’re on a phone call away, so that helped. So definitely [00:13:40] our strategy is three plus chairs plan and where we can add value [00:13:45] or not necessarily. We have some mixed. But again it’s back to yes [00:13:50] it’s back to because then you have a certain way what patients expect from you from a private practice. [00:13:55] And the clinicians expect a certain way of materials, equipment, the look, [00:14:00] the feel of the practice of private. So and and it works. So then you are [00:14:05] setting your patient journey what they expect from the minute they even land on your website or they land [00:14:10] on your car park, what they will expect. Not that we’re saying NHS should be treated any differently, because [00:14:15] if you went into any of our practices, NHS patient is treated the same as [00:14:20] well as a private patient as in the journey, but the clinicians are refusing to [00:14:25] treat NHS. I’ve got a lovely, lovely clinician, probably about three years in [00:14:30] from university and served a couple of weeks ago. Polly, I’m really struggling.

Polly Bhambra: I can’t do this NHS [00:14:35] list anymore. If you can offer me a list private, which obviously we can. I’d love [00:14:40] to stay. Otherwise I’m going to have a look elsewhere. All my friends are private. Only [00:14:45] you know they’re doing this and I’m not. And I feel I’m limiting myself to my [00:14:50] skill set, which I can’t deliver on the NHS. These are the sort of barriers that we’re coming. I [00:14:55] can’t understand it. Yes, absolutely can understand. And he is a fantastic clinician, what [00:15:00] we call safe pair of hands when we you know, once a clinician has been in a few months we do [00:15:05] these 360 reviews and we have the lab involved as well. So where they send the work obviously [00:15:10] I’m a dental nurse. I don’t know what happens in the mouth. I know between right and wrong, but [00:15:15] we need the lab, their feedback, peer to peer reviews. If another clinician has seen their [00:15:20] patients as an emergency, what the mouth is, how healthy they are. So we get [00:15:25] feedback in that sense. But yeah, I get it. You know, associates are [00:15:30] moving away from NHS dentistry. So we’re trying a different avenue with dental [00:15:35] therapists. So seeing how that works. And yet we’re getting resistance from the clinicians [00:15:40] saying, well, what happens if the filling doesn’t work out? Who’s going to go? Am I liable [00:15:45] for litigation? How are we going to claim the udas? So it’s having those reassuring conversations [00:15:50] saying, look, this is how it will work. So yeah, let’s see. Let’s see what [00:15:55] happens with that.

Payman Langroudi: And what are the like the headline numbers I mean so okay ten practices, how many [00:16:00] staff in total.

Polly Bhambra: So approximately about 130 staff.

Payman Langroudi: Including. [00:16:05]

Polly Bhambra: Everyone. That’s yeah the nurses.

Payman Langroudi: Salaried and the self-employed.

Polly Bhambra: So we’ve got employed [00:16:10] there’s about 130, there’s 40 about 37 clinicians [00:16:15] and then about ten hygienists. So 47 clinicians, but around 8090 [00:16:20] odd nurses, some part time, some full time. So and a lab technician and [00:16:25] a technician and our prosthetics lab. Yeah, we have a prosthetics lab at one of our sites. He’s been with us 39 [00:16:30] years.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a lot of humans. It’s a lot of humans to worry about, especially operations. That’s you. Right? [00:16:35]

Polly Bhambra: Yes. Well, my day starts around 6:00 in the morning with phone calls of [00:16:40] can’t make it and I’ve moved away. I don’t want to text. I want to speak to you for [00:16:45] a reason for not coming to work. And nine times out of ten, it is genuine that they are poorly. We [00:16:50] have really good staff who are committed because they see the [00:16:55] impact it has on the team if they don’t come to work. So when they do fall insecurities [00:17:00] genuinely, they are poorly or they will come into work. And we have to say, you’ve got to go home, [00:17:05] you’re really seriously not well, go home. Yeah. So managing the team, it’s [00:17:10] the personalities. Payman you have these conversations or we’ll have meetings. Great. [00:17:15] We agree. Something perfect. I will write an email to confirm [00:17:20] that we’ve had this conversation. I get response and I’m thinking, hang on, we didn’t agree [00:17:25] that I’m sure we agreed something else because I’m a sucker for writing everything down. I have a book, obviously. [00:17:30] I bought it and tagged it along with me today. I write everything down so the goalpost changes. So it’s [00:17:35] managing those kind of personalities and conversations.

Payman Langroudi: And how deep do you get [00:17:40] into the sort of characters and the. Because you can I mean, I remember when [00:17:45] we were seven people. Yes. And I remember going home in the evening and talking deep [00:17:50] with my wife about these seven humans, you know, like, oh, all about their lives and everything. Yeah. And [00:17:55] now we’re like 38 people or whatever it is now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you’ve got 138 people. [00:18:00] Yeah. So how do you keep. I mean, it sounds it sounds like you’re very touchy [00:18:05] feely with.

Polly Bhambra: With terrible.

Payman Langroudi: With these teams.

Polly Bhambra: Yes, I am.

Payman Langroudi: So are you taking on a lot of [00:18:10] their problems and, you know, like, sort of. It’s a bit it’s a bit difficult, [00:18:15] isn’t it? Because what if it was 4000 people? You couldn’t you. Yes.

Polly Bhambra: My [00:18:20] my, um. Problem maybe. I don’t know what it is. The word problem. I’m [00:18:25] so emotionally invested in these people? Yeah. So their problem sort of. Somehow becomes [00:18:30] my problem. And I feel I have to. I’m solution driven. So find a solution. [00:18:35] What’s the problem? Let’s work together. Let’s sort it out. And it could be anything from, [00:18:40] you know, like somebody said, I can’t, you know, I haven’t got money to pay for the taxi to get to another site. [00:18:45] Okay, let’s book your Uber for you. She texts it, you know, 7:00. Polly. I’m struggling. Um, [00:18:50] haven’t got money on my phone for the Uber. Fine. Don’t worry. I’m booking your Uber. It’s done. It’s dealt [00:18:55] with. Obviously, they put the receipts in. They claim their petrol back. Yeah, so it’s that kind of stuff. A conversation [00:19:00] with a nurse whilst I’m on the train coming down here about how she’s struggling with her course. [00:19:05] Polly, can you help me with the charting? I said, look, I’m on site Thursday. Grab me for five minutes. [00:19:10] I’ll go through it with you. Not a problem. Because of my Dental teaching background. Yeah, you know, it’s different [00:19:15] on charting on paper than it is on the computer and understanding. So yes, [00:19:20] and same with the clinicians. But I think equally they are because we we treat everybody [00:19:25] as a person who they are, we get to know them. Our onboarding is quite robust, [00:19:30] so we get to know them as people. We.

Payman Langroudi: What do you mean? Our onboarding is robust. What [00:19:35] is it.

Polly Bhambra: So. So dental nurse for example are an associate comes on board. Um [00:19:40] they will have the induction of who’s they buddy up with somebody then [00:19:45] um like a nurse would go in. They’re not just brought in on the first day and thrown into surgery. They’ll [00:19:50] have a week with another nurse shadowing her or another practice. Then they have [00:19:55] the training on our software. So from R4 to Ergilio to Dem plan, having [00:20:00] the conversations, how we speak to patients, how we do things here. And [00:20:05] it’s always like, oh, but we’ve always done it like this at our other practice. Exactly. So leave that at the door. [00:20:10] This is our process. This is how we work. This is how we answer the phone. This is what we [00:20:15] do when the patient walks in. This is what we do whilst the patient is in the surgery. This is what we do when the [00:20:20] patient leaves. This is how we follow up with an email texts. A Google review. We [00:20:25] ask everybody. So these are all processes. That’s onboarding. And it’s managing [00:20:30] expectations. So people say oh I don’t know how to do that. Nobody told me it negates [00:20:35] all of that nonsense conversation after oh, I don’t know when you ask the question [00:20:40] or there’s white space, how come there’s white space in the diary? You know the process. [00:20:45] You know what you need to do to fill the white space so it stops that. Oh, I didn’t know. Oh, I didn’t [00:20:50] know. I thought somebody else was doing it. Everybody has a role and a responsibility and they’re held [00:20:55] accountable. You can’t, you know, expect somebody to do something if you’re not going to hold them to [00:21:00] account.

Payman Langroudi: How did you learn all of this?

Polly Bhambra: I’m [00:21:05] a sucker for reading books, podcasts and just as you as you grow. [00:21:10] Because I’ve got as the.

Payman Langroudi: Business grows, you grow as an operator. Yes. [00:21:15] Yeah. That’s true. Yes. But but nonetheless. Yeah, it’s not a joke. [00:21:20] What? You know, it’s a, it’s a big beast to to to to to [00:21:25] systemise.

Polly Bhambra: You learn very quickly. Yeah. When mistakes happen, when people say stuff [00:21:30] or things happen and you see stuff and you get told Prime [00:21:35] example, we had a clinician about five, six years ago was doing something that I didn’t [00:21:40] approve of when I pulled him up and said, look, I don’t like what you’re doing. It’s [00:21:45] wrong. What’s he doing? He, you know, claiming something [00:21:50] that he shouldn’t be claiming. Chrome charging the patient privately for a bit of Chrome, but, [00:21:55] uh, you know, putting these dudes through and a lab bill. And when my lab technician [00:22:00] said, look, you know what, poly? I’m sending you the lab bills. I just want you to be aware of what’s happening. [00:22:05] And this is the thing that is brilliant. It’s the open door policy allowing [00:22:10] people to speak up when they see something’s not right. Ten practices. You’re not in them every [00:22:15] single day. So when something gets told to you and if you don’t action it or you don’t address [00:22:20] it. You are the bigger fool. Because somebody said, look, I’ve told you something’s happening [00:22:25] and you’ve turned a blind eye. That’s worse because you know something’s not right and you’ve done nothing [00:22:30] about it. So when somebody gives me an inkling, something’s just not right. I just want you to know. [00:22:35] So. Okay. You know, leave it with me. I know what’s happening. So I addressed it with the associate. I said, look, this [00:22:40] is not right, and I don’t like what you’re doing. It’s unacceptable. It needs to stop and literally Payman. [00:22:45] You know what he said? He said, what do you know? You’re a dental nurse.

Polly Bhambra: You’re a. His words, [00:22:50] quote unquote. You’re a jumped up dental nurse with a silver spoon in your mouth and walked [00:22:55] out the door. I’m like, wow. Wow. I come from a working class background. [00:23:00] My parents are immigrants from India, from the 60s. You know, my mom was 16. [00:23:05] My dad was 18 when my dad was 14 when he arrived. He married my mom when he [00:23:10] was 18, and he worked in a foundry. And my mom was, you know, a housewife. [00:23:15] And they had these shops and they built their little empire together. And he [00:23:20] walked out and literally I was like, jumped up Dental nurse with a [00:23:25] silver spoon in your mouth. And literally I and he walked out the practice. It was an evening, so I [00:23:30] thought I’d wait till everybody’s gone and then I will speak with him. It was awful. And I just emailed him that night [00:23:35] and said, please do not return back to this building. You’re not welcome. You’ll be able to come. You’ll be escorted into [00:23:40] your surgery to collect your belongings, and that will be it. And I’ve never seen [00:23:45] him since. Or heard of him. Yeah. Sometimes you have to make decisions and [00:23:50] you have to. The harsh? Yes, they’re harsh, but it also sets the precedence [00:23:55] for everybody else that it’s not accepted when you’re doing something which is wrong because it opens [00:24:00] you up to lots of different things, not just NHS litigation, but fraud. People [00:24:05] think, oh, it’s okay. They allow this kind of behaviour, but it’s not, it’s not acceptable. [00:24:10]

Payman Langroudi: So let’s talk about hiring and firing. [00:24:15]

Polly Bhambra: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about hiring.

Polly Bhambra: First hire slow. Fire fast. [00:24:20] Yeah. Hire slow. I went through my learning, my own learning. When [00:24:25] you make mistakes and you’re desperate to just fill the Dental nurses gap or need [00:24:30] a receptionist. So you hire somebody quick, get them in, get them and get them trained. Get them on reception. And [00:24:35] when they arrive and you think, oh God, they’re making it’s worse than having [00:24:40] the empty chair because they’re booking them patients where they shouldn’t be, not [00:24:45] charging, not, um, following up. Those processes are not being [00:24:50] followed. So the sooner you find you have those conversations with the person and you say, [00:24:55] look, it’s not working. Either you adapt your style and you follow the process or this practice [00:25:00] is not for you. And if it’s not for them and you quickly realise it’s not for them, [00:25:05] when you ask somebody to contact a patient and say, could you call the patient, do this, [00:25:10] do this, do that, and they don’t, and they send a text instead. So my question is like [00:25:15] I’ve asked you to call the patient, have that conversation and explain what’s going on. [00:25:20] Why would you share with me? For what reason would you send a text called it’s [00:25:25] not personal. It’s you know, what is going on here. I don’t like making phone calls. [00:25:30] I don’t like speaking to patients. Then you’re in the wrong profession if you’re sitting on reception [00:25:35] doesn’t work. So you need to exit.

Payman Langroudi: And is that always you [00:25:40] doing the firing?

Polly Bhambra: Nine times out of ten, myself and Gulu, who is [00:25:45] the other partner? It’s between us two. We do it. And jazz is great and [00:25:50] but it’s usually left to us to to do the firing and the hiring we do together [00:25:55] as a three. The three of us we do together. Because again, we need to make sure that [00:26:00] not only, you know, the clinical values fit, but the personal values [00:26:05] fit. Not just professional, but they are. They’re coming on board for a reason to develop, to grow, [00:26:10] to, um, put the patients first.

Payman Langroudi: The top tips. What are your top tips for hiring? Well. [00:26:15]

Polly Bhambra: Hiring? Well, I would say, um. Get the get [00:26:20] the person in. Let them come and do a trial day. See them in action. See [00:26:25] how they speak to their peers. See how they speak to patients, how they are around you when they’re [00:26:30] not working at lunchtime, at coffee time, when they’re standing in the kitchen or grabbing ten [00:26:35] minutes, you’ve got a gap. Let’s grab a coffee, how they are, and you’ll get to see that quite quickly if [00:26:40] they are for us, if they’re our team. Yes, you’re nervous and so you’re a bit shy and your first day. [00:26:45] But one of the top tips is get get them in, have a phone [00:26:50] call first. Understand exactly what they’re looking for. And what is it that they’re not looking [00:26:55] for. Yes, we can list all the things I want somebody who’s, you know, got [00:27:00] knowledge of dem plan and R4 and this and the other, but it’s equally as important to ask [00:27:05] them what kind of practice are they looking for. Are they looking for career development? Are they looking [00:27:10] for a family practice a little practice where there’s only two chairs and they don’t like a huge practice [00:27:15] because we’ve got hygienist who’s amazing. And probably about a month ago she came in. Polly. I [00:27:20] love working for you, but this practice is too big. I want I’ll carry on working, but [00:27:25] can you find me an opening in one of your other practices? So, of course, two days at a smaller practice [00:27:30] where it’s one chair for the dentist, one for the hygienist, and she loves it. So [00:27:35] it’s knowing the needs of the individual. It’s all very well saying, we want this, we want that. They’ve got to [00:27:40] be doing this and they have to have this and these post qualifications. But it’s what do they want and [00:27:45] what kind of practice are they looking for. So um, telephone conversation first [00:27:50] face to face interview trial day. And then it’s, you know, it’s references [00:27:55] and get them in.

Payman Langroudi: But I mean, what I’m saying about that is, you know, I know people [00:28:00] who’ve got really brilliant, very exhaustive hiring procedures. You know, [00:28:05] they make people fill out forms and do trial days and presentations. [00:28:10]

Polly Bhambra: Yes, we got PMS do.

Payman Langroudi: And yet, yes, the person ends up being a turkey. [00:28:15] Um, it’s it’s not an exact science, is [00:28:20] it?

Polly Bhambra: It’s it’s funny you say that because we hired two PMS at the same time. [00:28:25] One we call was our racehorse and the other was our donkey. Same [00:28:30] training, same induction, same everything. Different person and different person. [00:28:35] It’s a mindset. The mindset was, well, I’m a PM. I’m sitting in my back office, this door shut. [00:28:40] Don’t disturb me, don’t call me if you need me, I will come out. The other one [00:28:45] is like I am the face and the eyes and the ears of the practice. I want to sit at the front desk. I want to have, yes, [00:28:50] my office. But I want to be here, there and everywhere. Totally different. So [00:28:55] what jobs.

Payman Langroudi: Did you do yourself in a dental practice? Were you practice manager at any practice? [00:29:00]

Polly Bhambra: I was never a practice manager, so I started off as a trainee dental nurse at Birmingham Dental Hospital [00:29:05] back in 1990. And then I went into practice [00:29:10] and I worked as a dental nurse. Loved it. I did on call at a local [00:29:15] practice where I worked in the evenings, so I did that. Um, and [00:29:20] then I went back to the hospital, worked on the oral medicine department, which I absolutely loved, [00:29:25] I loved it. Interesting. Yeah, oral med, oral surgery, ortho, oral med, all of those kind of stuffs. [00:29:30] Endo. Not my cup of tea. I’m not one for smelling bar broaches, but, um. Yeah. [00:29:35] Ortho. Endo. Ortho an oral med was great. Worked at the hospital [00:29:40] and then my parents moved in 1995 to [00:29:45] Preston. They bought a residential care home. So with that came [00:29:50] this shift. But my father, my elder brother and myself, we moved together [00:29:55] up north. So I gave up dental nursing for a short period, kept my GDC registration [00:30:00] and worked in a care home and managed a care home.

Payman Langroudi: I bet that was invaluable. [00:30:05]

Polly Bhambra: Horrible that was. That was invaluable in those days. It wasn’t cold and sexy, [00:30:10] which is now didn’t exist.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Polly Bhambra: Yes. And, um, and that’s 24 [00:30:15] hour care. So that again was wow. And again stop [00:30:20] some form of patient care. But it’s 24 hour care and worked as on [00:30:25] on the, you know, shop floor with as a care assistant. So one minute you’re [00:30:30] feeding somebody, the next minute you’re wiping their bum, you know. So that was um, very [00:30:35] a very steep learning curve, which was great. And then um, and [00:30:40] then.

Payman Langroudi: I guess some someone doesn’t turn up who’s supposed to do the night shift.

Polly Bhambra: Oh, Polly. [00:30:45] You’re on. Yeah. And literally Payman I’d do from 7:00 [00:30:50] in the morning till 10:00 at night, and then they’re like, oh, um, and it’s always a Friday [00:30:55] or a Saturday evening that somebody wouldn’t turn up, and then you’d be back [00:31:00] on shift until the following day. I mean, at one, one week, I think we recounted. I did about 100 and [00:31:05] something odd hours, which is wrong for you both. And I and I found myself. I remember [00:31:10] I’d get to about 70 hours, 80 hours, and my dad would say, oh, I think she needs a [00:31:15] break. She’s getting a bit crabby. I’m like, thanks, dad. I’ve only been on the go constantly. So [00:31:20] but it was brilliant because that gave me an opportunity to work really closely with my dad. My dad again, [00:31:25] like I said, an immigrant from the 60s who built his business over time. And there was a time [00:31:30] back in the 80s and, and where he had a row of shops and he [00:31:35] would like open one and, um, it’d be a grocery store. The next one was a hardware [00:31:40] store, the next one was a a fish and chip shop. He’d closed the grocery store, opened the fish and chip shop. [00:31:45] We’d come back from school and he’d be saying, right, you stand behind the counter, you get yourself down to the [00:31:50] cash and carry on one of five siblings. So we all had an input in our family upbringing. [00:31:55] What an.

Payman Langroudi: Entrepreneur.

Polly Bhambra: Yes. And even the siblings. Yeah. All my siblings had, you know, [00:32:00] entrepreneurial older brother. It’s property. The other ones. It’s like nurseries. [00:32:05] As in plant nurseries. My sister day nurseries. She got to a point last [00:32:10] year. She had five day nurseries and we sadly lost our [00:32:15] mum. Two years ago she woke up and said right, enough’s enough. Sold within [00:32:20] six weeks of making a decision Payman she said no, I’m not doing this. I’m [00:32:25] selling look what mum, what happened with mum? So she sold and she’s [00:32:30] retired and she’s not even 50. And then obviously there’s myself, my younger brother as well. He’s [00:32:35] got their care homes and rest homes and property portfolio. Yeah. So we’ve got this five [00:32:40] siblings of us.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s an interesting thing, you know, where I speak to a lot of women [00:32:45] and they, for a start, got like a perfection thing going [00:32:50] on. They want everything to be perfect. And that’s self-imposed kind of, I don’t know, society imposed [00:32:55] whatever it is. Um, and but then when you’re someone running a [00:33:00] business, in your case, a complicated business. Write ten practices with [00:33:05] kids. Yes. Yeah. And the question of, you know, I feel [00:33:10] guilty that I’m not spending time with the kids. Yeah, that whole thing. Yeah.

Polly Bhambra: That’s been [00:33:15] huge.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But. But I’m sure your dad was busy. Yeah. And [00:33:20] your mum? Yeah. Busy? Busy? Yeah. Didn’t spend time doing quality touchy feely things with [00:33:25] you? No, but my point is, they learned by osmosis. Yes. Yeah. [00:33:30] Like when they see you. Yeah. They see you doing what you’re doing. It’s not only the number of hours. [00:33:35] Yeah. Like you can do hours of work not making a massive impact. Yeah. Or [00:33:40] you can do hours of work making you. Look, my mum made that impact [00:33:45] on the world that inspires them to do the same. Right. And you were telling me, you know, your kids [00:33:50] are really high achievers and all that. Yeah. It didn’t happen by. By mistake. Like. Like, you know, you [00:33:55] weren’t there looking over their homework every day. No, you didn’t have time to do that.

Polly Bhambra: I [00:34:00] mean, my, um. I’d bought tree Tops in July 2010. [00:34:05]

Payman Langroudi: What’s that, a practice?

Polly Bhambra: That’s one of our practices. And, um, I [00:34:10] think I was six months pregnant. Probably. So Gumare came in December and [00:34:15] the 13th, and our Christmas party was like the 21st. He came to the Christmas party and [00:34:20] he was in his car seat underneath the table. And literally I’d be like, oh, it’s time to go and [00:34:25] breastfeed him. Quick ten minutes in the toilet, back again under the table and you carry on. So [00:34:30] and I think the kids know they don’t know anything different. So they’ve been they’ve they’re [00:34:35] part of that sort of, you know, cycle that I’m in. They come to work with me. [00:34:40] School holidays. Yes. They would be booked into every possible club. Yes. Tennis dance, [00:34:45] this that and the other. But they’d come back and they’d come back and sit in the office and like, right, you’re here now. You can do the [00:34:50] shredding. You need to do that. You can start franking these letters so they they have that work ethic [00:34:55] in them.

Payman Langroudi: With Chris Barrett don’t you. Yes. Yeah. And he says something about hiring practice managers who come [00:35:00] from families where their parents had businesses. Yes. So they understand [00:35:05] the work ethic.

Polly Bhambra: The work ethic is so important. And it’s having that can do attitude. [00:35:10] You might not know what you’re doing, but you know what? Let me have a go. Let me see if I can make it work. [00:35:15] So let me see if I can, you know, sort of work my way around it. So it’s that attitude and mindset [00:35:20] is above all. So when it comes back to recruitment, can they do the job? Will they [00:35:25] do the job? It’s the skill set. Yes, you can teach the skills, but you can’t teach the attitude and [00:35:30] the attitude comes from having that. Okay, you know what? Let me have a go. So the kids, they [00:35:35] don’t have a choice. They’ve been part of that journey with with me. And you’re [00:35:40] just going to have to crack on guys. Mummy’s busy. I’ve got CQC inspection at one of the sites, so [00:35:45] you need to come and make sure so they have their little checklist. Can you make sure that everything in this surgery has got this, this, [00:35:50] this, this, this and um, but yeah, it’s been fun and they’ve learnt along the way and they, they’ve [00:35:55] learned that you you work hard or you work smart, but then you also have a nice [00:36:00] life. They go to good schools. They’ve got nice stuff around them. But that doesn’t come just by sitting on your bum. You have [00:36:05] to do something. And it’s it’s not easy. As I was saying earlier, it’s not. It’s not [00:36:10] classed as old money. This is money that we’re working hard to make sure that you have got these nice things [00:36:15] around you, but you also get opportunities to be around good people. I’ve got [00:36:20] a great team and they learn the kids learn from them, how they work and how we do things. [00:36:25] So it’s important.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the org chart like? There’s you three at the [00:36:30] top. Yes. Who’s next.

Polly Bhambra: And then we have obviously we have our own individual PA [00:36:35] who do our little admin stuff behind. Then we have ten practice managers. [00:36:40]

Payman Langroudi: Then any area managers.

Polly Bhambra: See we used to have an area manager. [00:36:45] We’ve had a couple of area managers Payman. And what we found that it was just another [00:36:50] layer and our message, what we wanted to portray to our teams. It just [00:36:55] got muddled up and the message the.

Payman Langroudi: Other way round as well.

Polly Bhambra: And the other way round. And the area manager [00:37:00] would always come with, oh my God, there’s a problem. Oh my God, there’s a problem. I’d be like, okay, I get [00:37:05] it, there’s a problem. We’ll come with a solution. If I’m going to you’re telling me the problem, [00:37:10] I can work that out for myself. There’s a problem. But how are you going to help me solve it? So you know, the whole [00:37:15] that layer of area, the the other layer after us, we’ve got it. Practice [00:37:20] practice managers and and what also happened these we bought brilliant area managers on [00:37:25] board. But as we grew their skill set was limited. Yes 2 or 3 at a push. But [00:37:30] ten practices, ten PM’s managing them. The whatsapps going crazy over morning looking [00:37:35] for staff and you know, authorisation for agency staff. And so it’s [00:37:40] just easier now.

Payman Langroudi: Do you see your primary role yourself. Yes. As managing those ten [00:37:45] practice managers.

Polly Bhambra: Practice managers.

Payman Langroudi: Yes. So how often are you in touch with them? Each every day. [00:37:50]

Polly Bhambra: Every day? Every day. Whatsapp is literally every day, if not 100 [00:37:55] times a day on that WhatsApp chat. And it could be anything from, you know, staffing. I haven’t got a nurse.

Payman Langroudi: You know, [00:38:00] there’s stuff. Stuff will come up day by day. But what about like meetings or.

Polly Bhambra: So three days [00:38:05] I’m at. So the Thursday we have two admin days a week. So that’s when I’m [00:38:10] going on site. So because our practice is in Stourbridge are all walking distance from each other. [00:38:15] You could be one day and you’ve done those three sites. There’s only one practice which [00:38:20] you have to devote the full day to, which is in Barwell, Leicestershire and Carlton [00:38:25] House. So if you’re going from Wolverhampton, you know you’ve got to wipe. The whole day is dedicated [00:38:30] to that practice. But if you’re in Wolverhampton you could be at treetops, you know, 9:00 [00:38:35] in the morning, but by 11 you could go to Codsall, which is around the corner. Larch home every day. So [00:38:40] it’s it’s easily commutable and contact is there every day conversations that [00:38:45] we can have.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re doing that as well. You’re doing that journey. You’re visiting every practice [00:38:50] every month. So at least.

Polly Bhambra: Weekly, weekly, every Thursdays, Thursdays [00:38:55] and Fridays is what we call our Stourbridge days, because we’ve got three practices [00:39:00] and Stourbridge and a couple of the practices are the ones where we are really struggling [00:39:05] with recruitment, so we have to be seen to be supportive of the [00:39:10] PM. She’s like, Polly, I’ve got I’ve spent 17 grand on agency and I’m having palpitations [00:39:15] over the last quarter and I’m sharing these figures because they’re coming from our bookkeeper, Clarence, saying, [00:39:20] you’ve spent 17 grand, what the hell’s going on on agency staff? So I’m [00:39:25] speaking to the PM saying, look, what’s happening with your recruitment. Are you what are what are the ads saying? What [00:39:30] can we change? What is the wording that we need to change? What who do we need to be contacting. So [00:39:35] and then we have staff who have left and come back through that revolving door. So [00:39:40] yeah we are.

Payman Langroudi: The PM or the PM’s incentivised with regards to the bottom [00:39:45] line of their particular practice.

Polly Bhambra: Pm’s PMS are we’ve we’ve not done it as incentivises [00:39:50] the PMS. We incentivise the whole team because it’s a team effort. The PM [00:39:55] yes, is the orchestrator of getting the team together to achieve get X amount of Google [00:40:00] reviews, grow our plant patients by 10%. You know, whatever the incentives are [00:40:05] or the KPIs that we’ve set for each practice. So when they get something.

Payman Langroudi: The same right.

Polly Bhambra: There, [00:40:10] same for the other team. Yes. That each practice the three that we are struggling with [00:40:15] staffing and recruitment. Therefore, if we’re struggling with staffing and recruitment, the [00:40:20] decline in taking on plant patients because the conversations are not happening when we’re our own [00:40:25] team in front of house, it’s a natural patient comes in. Yes. Right. You know your plan. [00:40:30] The dentist has already done that. The CEO would have had the paperwork completed already and the [00:40:35] receptionist having those conversations. So not only would decline in recruitment, it’s a decline in plant patients. [00:40:40] It’s a decline in Google reviews. It’s a decline in this. So that’s where either myself or [00:40:45] the other two partners have to go in and say, right, how can we support you? What can we do to help you? [00:40:50] Yeah. So we we’re very much hands on. And to be fair, Payman, [00:40:55] we’ve always been we had the hiring manager. We tried that for about five years. [00:41:00] And for the last I’d say 3 or 4 years we’ve been.

Payman Langroudi: So is there a [00:41:05] head office and head office roles or not?

Polly Bhambra: So back office roles we have marketing [00:41:10] a lady.

Payman Langroudi: Centrally.

Polly Bhambra: Centrally looks after the sites, and we have an accountant [00:41:15] bookkeeper who does all the dentist salaries and payrolls payroll. So that’s [00:41:20] all sort of back office roles. So HR back office. And even though the [00:41:25] managers do the recruitment and all their personal files, but there’s a separate [00:41:30] HR, separate accounts and separate marketing, those functionalities are all from home. [00:41:35] There is.

Payman Langroudi: There is there a central place to all go to.

Polly Bhambra: Stourbridge? [00:41:40] Yes, it’s one of the practices. One of the practices upstairs has got a boardroom, so they all live out of that. Clarence [00:41:45] lives in Preston, so, um, everything’s there because we really. We don’t want it [00:41:50] to be. Oh, I’ll just work from home and I’ll just do it from there. It needs to be on site. You can’t do marketing. [00:41:55] Yes. You possibly say, well, I can get stock images and I can do that. You can’t do marketing [00:42:00] sitting at home. You need to be on site. You need to get your collateral, those patient testimonials. You have to be [00:42:05] the face on the forefront asking for Google reviews, that team engagement. You know, nowadays [00:42:10] somebody I recruited and they said, oh, I see you don’t have a TikTok page. So [00:42:15] it’s frowned upon. So, you know, guys, we need to stay above and beyond the trends. We need a [00:42:20] TikTok page. So getting staff who’ve been there for 15 years, asking them to do a TikTok, they’re like, [00:42:25] I’m not doing that. That’s not part of my job. I’m a dental nurse. I’m not. I’m not making TikTok. So [00:42:30] it’s a case of guys, come on, if we want to stay, you and they say, well, I’ll work somewhere else. But [00:42:35] and I remind them, yes, you might leave and go somewhere else, but eventually that practice will [00:42:40] then catch up as well and saying, well, that is the trend. We have to be visual on social media. [00:42:45] We need to be doing all the stuff that need to be to recruit younger patients, [00:42:50] because that’s what they want. That’s, you know, that’s the norm nowadays.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, plus [00:42:55] TikTok would give it another year and it won’t be younger people.

Polly Bhambra: It’s like aunties [00:43:00] like me on it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I’m on it. I’m on I’m on TikTok more than I’m on Instagram now.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:05] So it’s like my kids don’t Google. They don’t use Google. They’re on TikTok. That’s where they get their like [00:43:10] if.

Payman Langroudi: I, if I, if I was in I don’t know I was in Italy. Yeah. Or in Istanbul looking for whatever [00:43:15] it was, whatever it was I guess. Tiktok.

Polly Bhambra: Tiktok. Absolutely. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Obviously talk [00:43:20] to locals, but but but TikTok is where I go for that kind of information.

Polly Bhambra: Information? Absolutely. [00:43:25]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And so that’s where our patients are going to go to. There’s no doubt about it.

Polly Bhambra: Especially the younger ones. [00:43:30] If you’re trying to recruit Gen Z, Gen X and millennials are probably not on Facebook but Instagram. [00:43:35] But TikTok is where they all sort of hang out. I see from my own children.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah [00:43:40] yeah yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I mean, I’m very interested. [00:43:45] I mean, you seem to take to all of this so naturally. And [00:43:50] did you always have that sort of organiser mentality? [00:43:55] Um, you sort of give off this very positive vibe. [00:44:00] And I think it’s really important. Right. To, to have to have your staff morale. [00:44:05] Yes. High enough. It takes a positive person. Yeah. And what [00:44:10] you said about bad news and keeping a straight face when there’s bad news. And you [00:44:15] know what I think a lot of people should understand. I’ve worked in practices. Yeah. Where the guy would blow up [00:44:20] when something went wrong. Yeah. Guess what? No one ever told him when stuff went wrong. Yeah, because. [00:44:25]

Polly Bhambra: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: No, because he was going to blow up. He’s going to lose his. He’s going to lose it. Yeah. Yeah. So? So [00:44:30] everyone was just hide everything from this guy. And so this guy didn’t know anything about his own practice [00:44:35] because he was. And maybe there’s that ego thing the dentist game was a. By the [00:44:40] way, dentistry is a highly stress job.

Polly Bhambra: It is very.

Payman Langroudi: Stressful.

Polly Bhambra: I see it so stressful and it’s very lonely as well. [00:44:45] Payman it’s very lonely. I see the clinicians. Yes, we’re a big team. We’re huge. But when they’re in that surgery, [00:44:50] yeah, it is stressful and it’s lonely. So I understand when associates are you [00:44:55] know, we say, oh, he’s being a diva or she’s being a diva. She’s being a diva because she’s she’s [00:45:00] demanding. It’s stressful, but she’s demanding certain, um, things for her patients. [00:45:05] She wants to do things right. So if she’s expecting a certain type of composite or a certain material [00:45:10] or equipment because she wants to do.

Payman Langroudi: Right, you’ve got Polly. You’ve got the numbers in front of you. Yeah, [00:45:15] you can see the numbers. Yes. The cost of materials is not. Yeah. The make [00:45:20] or break for a practice or for even the bottom line. It’s not because of the if [00:45:25] you go berserk on materials. Berserk. Yeah. It might end up being 5% of your [00:45:30] turnover if you save to the, you know, cut to the bone, you might end up being 3%. [00:45:35] Yeah, but that’s not what’s causing. But people focus in because it’s almost the only thing they can [00:45:40] see.

Polly Bhambra: Yes, absolutely. But um, but yeah, like.

Payman Langroudi: Keeping your associate happy because [00:45:45] they’re using what you said, right? He’s trying to do the best for his patient.

Polly Bhambra: That’s what he does.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s what you [00:45:50] want, right? You want that’s the associate you want.

Polly Bhambra: So why not support them if they. And you know, sometimes [00:45:55] you’ll get the manager. Oh, she’s being a diva. She’s asked for this and I’m over my budget. And it’s [00:46:00] like there’s a reason she’s asking for that because the patient is paying for it. So if the patient [00:46:05] is paying for the time and the material, her expertise, you’ve got to get that stock in. Yes, [00:46:10] you’re over budget. It’s fine. But you know she needs it. So it’s so important that [00:46:15] those associates are supported who do right by their patients. But you talk about, [00:46:20] um.

Payman Langroudi: It’s funny, I get associates come to me, they say, oh, I really want to use enlightened, but I can’t persuade my [00:46:25] boss. Yeah. What’s the answer to that? Sell some enlightened, right. Sell some the [00:46:30] moment it’s sold. Yeah. The boss isn’t going to say no. Exactly. There’s a [00:46:35] patient waiting. Pay. Exactly.

Polly Bhambra: And, you know, I move away from the word selling to our associates. [00:46:40] It’s giving patients a choice. Sure, it’s a choice. And it’s allowing them to make [00:46:45] that informed decision. Saying these are the choices. Mrs. Smith. You can have this, or you can have this. [00:46:50] These are the choices, and these are the price points. You decide what you would. You know, it’s very well [00:46:55] I can recommend what I think would be great for you, but it’s giving back to the patient the choice again [00:47:00] about that patient experience. And patients value the clinician’s decision because [00:47:05] it’s back to like what do you think would be better for me. Yes, I think it would be this. But these are the options. So it’s [00:47:10] back to that. So patient dentist clinicians should have that choice of what is available. [00:47:15]

Payman Langroudi: What’s what’s your finance model? I mean when I say that people [00:47:20] think people hear ten practices and they think you’re a multi-millionaire. Yeah. But [00:47:25] what people don’t understand is you do not get to ten practices by spending the [00:47:30] profits, right. You get to ten practices by reinvesting, reinvesting, reinvest, reinvesting. So what’s your [00:47:35] plan? Is it who funds it? Is it bank funded?

Polly Bhambra: Is it bank funded and private? Ah, [00:47:40] our self self-funded. There’s no private equity. There’s no other third party, would [00:47:45] you? I don’t think we would. Because then it takes away the control. [00:47:50] Being the control freak that I am. It takes away the control and then the targets [00:47:55] and, um, the demands. What we then have to keep. It’s like a, [00:48:00] you know, hamster wheel that we’ve got to produce for the private equity firms. This is what you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Working for, someone else.

Polly Bhambra: You’re [00:48:05] working for somebody else? Yeah. So it’s self-funded. We met.

Payman Langroudi: We met in Alicante. Yes. [00:48:10] Yeah. And in Alicante, there was a definite. Well, just to explain to the [00:48:15] audience. It was where they bought a bunch of corporates together to meet up with a bunch of.

Polly Bhambra: Speed dating. [00:48:20]

Payman Langroudi: Flyers.

Polly Bhambra: Dental corporates.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But there was a clear difference between the private equity backed [00:48:25] ones and then the non private equity.

Polly Bhambra: Funded or bank funded. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: And that question of do [00:48:30] I go for private equity. Deputy. Um, it’s an interesting question, right? Because [00:48:35] have you got ambitions of more more [00:48:40] and more and more like.

Polly Bhambra: I think there would be, because at the moment we’re consolidating our practices. One of our practices [00:48:45] is having a huge renovation to the point where it’s gone from nine surgeries to 15 surgeries. [00:48:50] This is the one where I’m based at, and I call it my baby because it’s one of our first. And [00:48:55] it is about ensuring that each practice offers something [00:49:00] to everyone. So this particular practice, treetops I’m talking about, it’s it [00:49:05] will at the end of it. This literally the spade goes into the ground on the 1st of October. It [00:49:10] will have a gym for our staff. It’s got a boardroom, training facilities. We’ve got our own dental [00:49:15] nurse training academy, so training will be done there, additional surgeries and [00:49:20] more of a wellness centre where you’re offering these IV, um, vitamins and [00:49:25] hair loss and fat freezing and all this fancy stuff that you can do now Because [00:49:30] clinics are not CQC registered. So they’re coming to us and saying, look, we’d love to have [00:49:35] some space if you’ve got your practice to offer because ideal location. [00:49:40] So yes, we would potentially grow, but again it has to be the right practices. [00:49:45] And for us, what we’ve got. We want to make them better before we move out and [00:49:50] say, right, okay. Because we when we set off back in 2015, we [00:49:55] said, you know, let’s see how we go at ten years, we’ll have a rethink. Where are we at. That’s next year [00:50:00] we’ll be having conversations about, okay, are we selling, are we moving, are we buying more? Are [00:50:05] we consolidating? Are the three of us going our separate ways. And we, you know, selling [00:50:10] the goodwill and just meet every couple of years to pick up the rent check and say hi or [00:50:15] what are we doing. So those conversations will be happening next year or do we grow? And [00:50:20] then we buy another ten and we grow the portfolio. So let’s see. You don’t know. [00:50:25] Not yet. For me, I, um.

Payman Langroudi: It sounds like you’re having fun.

Polly Bhambra: I’m [00:50:30] enjoying it. I love going to work. You know, I walk in and they’re like, oh, she’s arrived because I’m like, morning. [00:50:35] They’re like, oh God, she’s here. But I enjoy going to work. And Payman, I don’t [00:50:40] feel I actually go to work because that sadly I have no friends, I don’t have a social life, I don’t drink, [00:50:45] I don’t smoke. So yeah, work is my social life and I love [00:50:50] work. I love what we do. The teams are amazing. The people that we surround ourselves with, they’re [00:50:55] brilliant. And again, you know, it comes from the top. If you’re walking in with [00:51:00] a face on the team, are like, oh God, she’s here again. But if you’re positive [00:51:05] and you have that, you know, it’s okay. Stuff happens, but we’ll work through it. Yes, you get patient complaints, [00:51:10] yes, you get staff leaving, you get grumbles. But you know we will deal [00:51:15] with it together, collectively. And again, back to the values. If there’s a problem, [00:51:20] we address it straight away. We don’t let it linger and it’s dealt with [00:51:25] there and then. My motto in life is an everlasting [00:51:30] positivity. Whatever it is, we will find a positive out of it. Something’s [00:51:35] gone wrong. Somebody left, somebody handed. They’re noticing, you know, at one practice, we’ve got five [00:51:40] nurses leaving five.

Payman Langroudi: So same time, same time.

Polly Bhambra: So [00:51:45] from anything from maternity leave to, um, our success stories, what we call [00:51:50] when we go, can we help them develop. One went is working for the GDC full time on [00:51:55] the fitness to practice board. She’s heading that. So wow. I’m like how amazing. [00:52:00] And the other nurses leaving to do general nursing. So again another success [00:52:05] story. So those kind of stories you’re proud okay. It’s hitting the business because we’ve got five leaving [00:52:10] maternity leave to this and one is leaving to go to moving back down south and [00:52:15] the other to move to just a must be.

Payman Langroudi: Constantly recruiting, right. Constantly, constantly, constantly [00:52:20] looking for for staff. Always of all types.

Polly Bhambra: Of all types. Yeah. From reception to nurses. [00:52:25] To therapists. Dental associates. Yep. Nhs associates to even come [00:52:30] on board. There is no conversation. There’s nobody. Nothing. Even if you say. Right. Okay. [00:52:35] Let’s negotiate. Uda. Uda rate. No.

Payman Langroudi: It’s up to that rate.

Polly Bhambra: It’s got [00:52:40] to that. Yeah. Honestly, it’s so sad. It is so sad. And then you’ve got. Yes. Overseas [00:52:45] dentists. Some are absolutely amazing, some where we’ve learned the hard way because the [00:52:50] thinking is different, the cross-infection is different, the standards are different. So there’s a lot [00:52:55] of mentoring. And when all of our all of our practices are associate led, it’s [00:53:00] hard to find a mentor because, well, okay, what’s in it for me then? What?

Payman Langroudi: Is there a lead [00:53:05] associate in every practice?

Polly Bhambra: Yes, I would say so. Definitely. Definitely there. Is that what we call our linchpin [00:53:10] at each practice? And a couple of them are the ex principals.

Payman Langroudi: The [00:53:15] previous which.

Polly Bhambra: Are brilliant. Yeah. Um, some were ex owners, but they forget [00:53:20] they have sold the practice and they no longer call the shots and they forget that you have to be reminded you’ve [00:53:25] had your bag of silver. Now, please let us let the practice move on. Because when there’s an issue, [00:53:30] they’d go back to the ex principal. And so those have been the tricky you know, when managing [00:53:35] change. We talked earlier. It’s that kind of change. I bet there’s an issue. Why are you going back [00:53:40] to the ex principal? If he wanted to make that change he should have done that under his leadership.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:53:45] you but you encouraged the ex principal staying on.

Polly Bhambra: Generally, yes, because they are the goodwill if you think [00:53:50] about it. Patients. We yes. You can buy a massive plan. You know a list of [00:53:55] goodwill. But patients stay because of the name of the ex principal. [00:54:00] Yeah they stay. We’ve had principals stay ex principals tied in so-called [00:54:05] between 3 to 5 years. After the five years they still stayed. Said, you know what? [00:54:10] I’m loving it. Why would I want to give up this position that I’m in all [00:54:15] the air, CQC, the logistics, the staffing is taken off me. I’m [00:54:20] coming in. I’m delivering good ethical dentistry and I’m going home with, you know, [00:54:25] a lovely little package tied in.

Payman Langroudi: Is it like an earnout?

Polly Bhambra: We haven’t done any earnouts. Obviously [00:54:30] the usual retention, but there’s no earnout. It’s always been amicably that they [00:54:35] stayed three years. Minimum. Agreement. Agreement. Three years. We’d like you to stay on until [00:54:40] we get, you know, the practice stability. New dentist comes in and then, you know a couple of our [00:54:45] dentists who the the practice we bought in 2010, the principal, the ex principal [00:54:50] only left what, a couple of years ago and then sadly passed away last year. And [00:54:55] two of the other principals are still with us. And they were bought back in 2015. Yeah. [00:55:00] So they’re still with us. So that’s that’s really good. That’s positive. And you.

Payman Langroudi: Must have had the conversation [00:55:05] about sort of rebranding all of them in the same brand because they’re all in the same area, [00:55:10] same.

Polly Bhambra: Area.

Payman Langroudi: And when there’s that concentration in the same area that the branding [00:55:15] thing actually makes a lot more sense. Yes. Have you have you thought about that?

Polly Bhambra: So we we thought about [00:55:20] rebranding under Dental. Yeah. Payman. We learned very quickly, [00:55:25] very early, very quickly that each practice has their own idiosyncrasies. Yeah. And [00:55:30] if you are a little practice, two surgeries in a little village in Codsall and then [00:55:35] all of a sudden you’ve been bought out, try Dental. Oh my God, it’s gone all corporate. Yeah. And [00:55:40] it was the case of the conversations and again, putting it out there. Oh the Asians, [00:55:45] it’s Asians. It’s going to be you know I don’t know this horrible connotation of Asians. It’s [00:55:50] a group of bought it or will it be a they turned it into a care home. Is it going to be a restaurant. [00:55:55] No, it’s a dental practice and it will stay as a dental practice. And yes, it will be [00:56:00] the same principle and the same staff. Nothing’s changing. So we kept the same [00:56:05] names and yes, we have like the back office type of thing is under Dental. But [00:56:10] front facing for patients, for staff is the name of the practice that we purchased. [00:56:15]

Payman Langroudi: So there’s no dream or sort of plans to ever know.

Polly Bhambra: I ran them at the same at all. [00:56:20] No, I think it’s individuality, and I think that stays with the practices because they’ve been long [00:56:25] established. 1930s, 19, you know, 20s, they’ve been established and under that [00:56:30] name. So we’ve kept them under under the same name. I think my.

Payman Langroudi: Dentist was like that. And then one [00:56:35] day they decided, yes, to change all of them to my identity. Well, they weren’t called my dentists at [00:56:40] that point. They h h yes. When the when the name change came in. Yes. You [00:56:45] know, in this journey, building this this, you know, business. You. There must [00:56:50] have been some dark days. Mhm.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah. Covid was one of them. What comes to [00:56:55] mind.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. What comes to mind when I say dark.

Polly Bhambra: I think just [00:57:00] comments that you hear from people about um, [00:57:05] you as a nurse, that you’re just a nurse. What do you know. It won’t last long. Her [00:57:10] business will fail. She doesn’t know. So those kind of comments. And I suffer hugely [00:57:15] with imposter syndrome. Believe it or not. Massively. I [00:57:20] pull up onto the drive and I’m like, oh my God, somebody’s going to come and tap me on the shoulder and say, excuse [00:57:25] me, you need to be aspirating. And, you know, instruments need doing in decon. What are you doing sitting in [00:57:30] the boardroom? You know, doing this you need to somebody’s going to tap me on the shoulder and say, wrong office. You need to be in the surgery. [00:57:35]

Payman Langroudi: Imposter syndrome is a feature of of growing quickly, though. It’s whatever you’re [00:57:40] doing.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, but I’ve always had it, even as a younger person, that should I be doing what I’m doing? [00:57:45] When I went for my dental nursing to working for Procter and Gamble, I worked for Procter and Gamble for 1012 [00:57:50] years, heading oral care in Western Europe. I’m like, oh my God. I’m sitting in a boardroom [00:57:55] with Procter and Gamble, and then I’m in Cincinnati. When Oral-B had the acquisition [00:58:00] with P&G back in 2006. And I’m in a boardroom thinking, am I meant to be [00:58:05] here? Oh my God, what is happening? So that has always stayed with me. And the dark days [00:58:10] are very much about, um, you know, sadly, comments from not very [00:58:15] nice people about you’re just a nurse, what do you know? But when they see stuff and [00:58:20] things happening, Covid was horrible. Covid was not nice because it took some [00:58:25] of our practices out of the ten to bounce back longer than we anticipated. [00:58:30] Patient loss was huge at some of our sites. Um, and again, it came [00:58:35] back to how our managers and how our clinicians engaged some of our practices, [00:58:40] our managers and clinicians like I get we’re going to have an on call phone. I’m [00:58:45] taking all the calls, I will triage, I will do the prescriptions, I will fax it or email it [00:58:50] to, um, the chemist, the pharmacy. And I will do all of that. And with the others like, [00:58:55] well, hello, I’m I’m off. It’s Covid. I’m not doing anything. Call me when you open [00:59:00] it. Was that so? Those were really horrible days. And you actually saw from [00:59:05] your own clinicians who were with you and who were like, well, sorry, mate, it’s [00:59:10] Covid. Call me when you your practice opens and I’ll be back. Otherwise I’m off.

Payman Langroudi: Did you feel [00:59:15] like a sort of existential crisis? Like you might. The whole business might. Might shut down. [00:59:20] We we did, we did.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, I can imagine. But some of our sites, [00:59:25] we thought, especially two of our sites which are drained, you know. Were draining patients, literally [00:59:30] draining patients. I think we’ve got to turn this ship around. We’ve got to do something and do it. It’s a [00:59:35] case of right communication, communication. Get the teams back in talking to patients, [00:59:40] ringing patients. We did the first batch, you know, back in March. It was March [00:59:45] the 23rd or whatever it was 20 and 2020. Every patient right. Get [00:59:50] their teams get them access to our system and then get them talking [00:59:55] to all the patients. And then we thought, fine, we’re back in June. Then we had the other lockdown. [01:00:00] So we thought and some of the practices didn’t quite open till August. September time with [01:00:05] the others were open June the 8th, I think it was. And we’re like, right, come on, we’re on it, we’re on it. Bang on. [01:00:10] I was literally right. Get these signs up. Get everything up. Let the world know that [01:00:15] we have arrived. Oh, literally. Gulu had sourced these ffp3 masks from three [01:00:20] M literally, you couldn’t get them and how he got them. It’s contact [01:00:25] of a contact and everybody. I went on a testing course. [01:00:30] Right. We’re going to I’m going to do all the fit testing myself. And that’s what I did.

Payman Langroudi: Imagine all [01:00:35] these.

Polly Bhambra: New words I.

Payman Langroudi: Know all.

Polly Bhambra: New words furloughed. But [01:00:40] yeah, we’ve got a huge garden, one of our practices. And literally that’s where we had all of our fit tests. And it was [01:00:45] like getting the cue, get fit, tested. Get your mask back on site Monday morning over [01:00:50] a weekend. We did it. Yeah. The gowns or this, that or the other. Yeah. [01:00:55]

Payman Langroudi: And then that crazy period after Covid [01:01:00] where, I mean, our business went through the roof [01:01:05] and like all Dental businesses did. Yes. It’s interesting. I was talking to a colleague from Lithuania. [01:01:10] She was saying same thing happened there. Yeah. And then I looked into. I [01:01:15] wanted to find out. Did that happen after that Spanish flu? Yeah. And it did. [01:01:20] It was like when, you know, like, spending is a funny thing. Like, if you can’t spend them, it [01:01:25] comes out in one go.

Polly Bhambra: To spend and literally.

Payman Langroudi: So you must have seen the growth [01:01:30] go berserk at that point, right.

Polly Bhambra: Crazy new patient appointment because it was all everything was on zoom. [01:01:35] All of a sudden you started analysing your cheekbones, your jowls, your lips, your [01:01:40] teeth, your forehead, the amount of inquiries for street Invisalign. [01:01:45]

Payman Langroudi: People had money, they.

Polly Bhambra: Had money, they had money they had not been spending. They had money. But [01:01:50] we also found it was they wanted it instant. They weren’t waiting. They want it now. [01:01:55] And obviously the younger folks like that total instant gratification. [01:02:00] They want it. They want it now. I’ll pay for it later. Get me finance. I’ll finance rocketed [01:02:05] how much we were providing. It was amazing. It was amazing. It tailed off. Now we’re [01:02:10] at a steady ship again. Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Your your story [01:02:15] with your dad. Your mum. Yeah. The care homes.

Polly Bhambra: Yes. [01:02:20]

Payman Langroudi: Shops working shops, working in dental practices. [01:02:25] Yeah. Procter and gamble. Yes. You know Procter and gamble. Another big bit of [01:02:30] your career.

Polly Bhambra: Massive. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, how much of it how much [01:02:35] of how much of your skills do you attribute to each of those things? I know it’s a silly it’s a silly question. [01:02:40] Right. Because it’s it’s a really good question. It’s a blend of those. Right. But but but but what did you learn [01:02:45] from your dad that you put in place in Procter and Gamble. Yes.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah. Really [01:02:50] really good question. It’s such a fantastic question. So for my dad was a work ethic. You [01:02:55] carry on, you work, you do things right and you do things properly. And it was very much of [01:03:00] you don’t give up. It’s that can do attitude. I definitely learnt from my mum and my dad. [01:03:05] My mom would take a risk. Take a risk? The risk versus the value and the outcome. [01:03:10] The reward. Definitely. He would risk something. And, you know, you’d think, how [01:03:15] is he going to turn this around? And you know what? He he would. And at one time Payman in [01:03:20] Birmingham. I grew up in inner city Birmingham. We had a row of shops, and [01:03:25] my dad owned all of those shops. And then, um, he would literally go and deliver [01:03:30] the food. He’d send myself and my brother to go and deliver food to, um, the elderly round [01:03:35] on that street. And when those people would sadly, um, pass away, they would write [01:03:40] in their will to give Mr.. He was known as Mr. Singh. Give Mr.. Singh the opportunity to buy [01:03:45] my house first before you put it on the market. And he was one of these cash deal? Yes. Fine. Put the deposit. [01:03:50] Cash done. And he had a row of houses, the whole street, the Broadway. Mr. Singh, and even [01:03:55] to this day, you know, he’s still well known in that area. So it was definitely the skill set of [01:04:00] can do, work hard and do things properly.

Polly Bhambra: Have an honest and true [01:04:05] living PNG was the networking. How to engage. [01:04:10] How to talk to professionally. Professionally? Totally. Listen. [01:04:15] I’m a girl from Perry Barr, Birmingham and then talking to professors in [01:04:20] you know Geneva. We that was our European head office. I [01:04:25] learnt a lot and that really helped me with the practices. So when I would be at conferences or [01:04:30] it was one of my managers, when we were still Oral-B back in 2006, and [01:04:35] then we came over to Proctor and Gamble. Before that, she I [01:04:40] was taken on as a territory manager or be where you’d go to each practice, sell your range of [01:04:45] power brushes and your manual brushes. And we, the managers would come out [01:04:50] and do a field visit. And she came out with me once and she said, oh my goodness, Polly, by I [01:04:55] think 1:00 she said, stop, you are doing what we call in the business, the milk [01:05:00] round. You’re going in. You know everybody. They buy from you. You know the practices. Sadly, [01:05:05] I asked you a question. You know, the phone number and you know the post code. Stop. Go home. [01:05:10] Turn your phone off. Turn your laptop off. Make me a business plan where you think we need to be. [01:05:15] Go away and come back and we’ll have a conversation. And she obviously saw something in me [01:05:20] and I back from my dental nursing at the dental hospital.

Polly Bhambra: I thought we never had the reps coming in. They [01:05:25] never spoke to the students, they never spoke to the nurses. So I went back and I said, Penny, we [01:05:30] need to do grab them at grassroot level at the hospital. So they leave the dental [01:05:35] hospital with our power toothbrush. And so that’s all they know the hygienist, what [01:05:40] do they have? So our usage and recommendation are U and R for power brushes skyrocketed [01:05:45] when we targeted hospitals. So I did all the hospitals. That was my best dental schools. [01:05:50] Dental schools grabbed the students at that work with the key associations [01:05:55] like the BSP. So the BSP guidelines, let’s sponsor that. [01:06:00] Obviously they were like, well, sponsorship, we don’t want to be exclusive to one, but if we could [01:06:05] devise the BSP guidelines and we will print all your merchandise. They were happy [01:06:10] with that. I brought that to the table. That was great. Stephen Hancox, let’s do presentations, [01:06:15] but let’s get CPD. I worked with him and we had our own CPD, um, [01:06:20] presentation that we gave out to students and then in practices. So it was that and [01:06:25] I learned so much from there, which now in business I replicate that. So when we [01:06:30] have our training and skills day CPD, you’re doing the dentist do something else. The nurses do something [01:06:35] else, you know.

Payman Langroudi: But so you were in the professional relations for.

Polly Bhambra: Yes. For them it was called [01:06:40] Pearson Professional Scientific Relations Organisation. What was the.

Payman Langroudi: Size [01:06:45] of the bill? I mean like how how much were they selling in toothbrushes.

Polly Bhambra: Oh, huge. Ah.

Payman Langroudi: Did [01:06:50] you get did you get anything on, on the consumer side like numbers.

Polly Bhambra: Huge. [01:06:55] I mean we were very because we were more the science and the professional relations. We [01:07:00] never got to. I mean, sometimes we would go to the factories and see how super floss is made, and [01:07:05] we’d do we. I’d take the hygienist from, um, the Hygiene and Therapy [01:07:10] Association and do like a weekend visit for them to have CPD and go and see our, um, [01:07:15] factories in Ireland. How super Floss was made. And you’d sort of discreetly look at the numbers. You’re [01:07:20] like, oh my God, it’s only costing them £0.04 to make. And you know, it’s they’re selling it for [01:07:25] £2.50 or whatever it was in those days. So it was 2 or 300% mark up [01:07:30] mark of what it was. Manufacturing is like manufacturing.

Payman Langroudi: Factories like that. It’s huge. But, you know, I [01:07:35] would imagine the whole professional side is only there to support the consumer.

Polly Bhambra: Consumer. Yes, [01:07:40] absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t get any figure like how many toothbrushes were they selling a year to the public? [01:07:45]

Polly Bhambra: Oh, huge. I can’t even think back how much it was. And we were talking, um, it [01:07:50] was huge. I can’t even think that was back. I started there [01:07:55] in 2002, and I left in 2010 when I bought the practice, so. [01:08:00] Oh, wow. So it’s a it’s a while, but yeah, huge. And at that time there was transition [01:08:05] from manual to power was huge. Yeah. Because the manual power, our sort of [01:08:10] goal was to get as many power brushes in people’s hands and away from [01:08:15] manual, manual, manual, manual. And the Cochrane report really supported us because it’s it said. [01:08:20]

Payman Langroudi: Toothpaste and toothpaste really a thing.

Polly Bhambra: In your day? The launch I think they launched [01:08:25] paste in places like India First because that was 2008 [01:08:30] or 9. They launched paste because in India, obviously, [01:08:35] you know, like we say, oh, I’ll just do the Hoover. It was the brand name rather than [01:08:40] it was all Colgate, Colgate. And that was their biggest competitor market. So we look I [01:08:45] say we P&G launched um toothpaste in India. The big sort of markets [01:08:50] that they had to.

Payman Langroudi: Crest was P&G wasn’t it. Yes.

Polly Bhambra: Crest was P&G. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: But Oral-B To Crest [01:08:55] Press doesn’t exist anymore, does it?

Polly Bhambra: Not in England. I think it’s in Europe still, but not in [01:09:00] the UK or probably, you know, B&M and pound shop type of things that they are there, but [01:09:05] not mainly in supermarkets, but Oral-B, paste, Colgate was our sort of brand competitor. [01:09:10] That was their target audience where they needed to target and get market share. Yeah, [01:09:15] so I learned a lot from P&G. So when it came, came to skill set, P&G taught me [01:09:20] a lot. And the contacts, you know, I could pick up the phone to somebody and say, I [01:09:25] need a perio specialist. You know, one, I need somebody. Do you know anybody in the area.

Payman Langroudi: Visited hundreds of practices, [01:09:30] hundreds of practices, practice. A good practice was. Yes. I mean, you know, you must resonate [01:09:35] with this idea, right? That sometimes I walk into a practice and the [01:09:40] receptionist looks up, comes, opens the door for me. Doctor Langroudi, we’ve been [01:09:45] expecting you. Yes. Coffee. And sometimes the opposite. Right. Yeah, sometimes the opposite. [01:09:50] And I’ve always been very careful about who’s at [01:09:55] blame in that. I don’t think it’s the receptionist. No, it’s not the receptionist.

Polly Bhambra: It’s [01:10:00] the culture. It’s the culture. It’s the.

Payman Langroudi: Practice. Sometimes it’s not enough people. Yeah, it’s all fast paced. [01:10:05]

Polly Bhambra: I haven’t got the time. I haven’t got the time. We’re short staffed. Yeah, and it’s always something I remember. [01:10:10] And the practice that I bought walked in and the receptionist [01:10:15] was sitting on reception, eating pot noodle with a hoodie on [01:10:20] and UGG boots and leggings or something. Okay. Front desk. Front desk. Oh, nice. And I’m like, [01:10:25] wow. And if you go back to that same practice now, 15 years later, all black. [01:10:30]

Payman Langroudi: She’s still sitting there.

Polly Bhambra: She’s still sitting there. Minus the pot noodle, minus the leggings, but all black. [01:10:35] Like red bowl, like scarf. And you know, the clinician used to say, oh my God, they look like air [01:10:40] hostesses now on reception. And they have a certain way they and it’s they’re all [01:10:45] presentable. So. And again that again is back down to the culture how you look, how you [01:10:50] feel, how the patients are made to feel, because if you’re rushing and the patient walks in and you don’t even [01:10:55] look up to them or acknowledge them, you might be on the phone, but give them eye contact, let them know. And if [01:11:00] they’re running late, offer them a coffee. But again, it’s back to the staffing, the culture, [01:11:05] what we expect. So managing staff expectations that they know what [01:11:10] we expect from them at recruitment and what they will expect from us and how we want them to make our [01:11:15] patients feel because they represent try Dental or tree tops or whatever it [01:11:20] might be. They are the faces of the practice, but they represent me. So when a visitor comes and you give them a [01:11:25] mug, that’s not me. Where’s a cup and saucer? You know, the process of visitors, they [01:11:30] sign in, they get the lanyard, they get seated, they offer tea and coffee. It comes in a [01:11:35] cup and saucer, not a builder’s mug, you know. So it’s little detail like that. That. [01:11:40] Yeah. I can’t help myself being getting twitchy. Yeah. [01:11:45]

Payman Langroudi: What was it like growing up? I mean, did you feel? I mean, [01:11:50] I don’t want to cliché it. Your family might have been a totally different thing, but, [01:11:55] you know, a girl in a in a Sikh house. Did [01:12:00] you feel like the expectation on you was that you were going to be this [01:12:05] super successful person, or did you not? Like what? Tell me. Just give me some remarks [01:12:10] about what it was like then. And what do they think about you now? Like, what do your family think about you?

Polly Bhambra: Oh, they just [01:12:15] laugh at me. That. Oh, she’s just honestly growing up, I’m one of five, so I’ve got two older [01:12:20] brothers who were literally two older brothers. You the. [01:12:25] And then I’ve got a younger sister and a younger brother.

Payman Langroudi: Are you the middle? [01:12:30]

Polly Bhambra: I’m right. Middle child syndrome. So. And being the girl. Yeah. So my parents. And [01:12:35] quite because my parents were immigrants from India. They weren’t educated, they weren’t westernised. [01:12:40] They came from little villages back home in Punjab. And so when they came here, they [01:12:45] quite quickly, you know, they got married. My dad worked in a foundry. He had. He bought [01:12:50] his first shop. My mom would sew. It was massive back in the 70s and 80s. Asian [01:12:55] women would sew from home and jackets and wax jackets and stuff. So she would sew and then serve customers [01:13:00] in in the shop. Yeah. And so she’d be backwards and we would be doing the same. So growing [01:13:05] up, you were never sort of allowed to be seen to be sitting doing nothing. [01:13:10] You weren’t Payman. Honestly, I think it’s actually scarred me. I come back, I [01:13:15] say to my dad, I was like, dad. And he’ll say to me, Will you just sit down for five minutes? Just sit down, Polly. [01:13:20] I was like, dad, you’ve been. You’ve so innate in me. I can’t sit down. So if you’re not, [01:13:25] you know, if you’re not serving customers, you were helping your mum and my sister would be in the kitchen. She [01:13:30] would be cooking. From the age of ten, she’d be preparing a full meal for the family. And I would be helping [01:13:35] my mum. So. And if I wasn’t sewing, I was serving customers. So there was that [01:13:40] and it was expected. You are having an arranged marriage. You will get married where we ask you to.

[TRANSITION]: We? [01:13:45] You will.

Polly Bhambra: Um, you know. Yes. You’ll have an education.

Payman Langroudi: It was fully arranged. [01:13:50]

Polly Bhambra: Fully arranged.

Payman Langroudi: When was the first time you met him?

Polly Bhambra: Oh, um.

Payman Langroudi: Are you telling me you had no choice [01:13:55] in the matter? No, no.

Polly Bhambra: They were very good. Because. Oh, you had a variety of boys that you that you were.

Payman Langroudi: Introduced [01:14:00] to a few, and you’re introduced to a few?

Polly Bhambra: Yes. So, um, because my parents lived in Preston, [01:14:05] there wasn’t very much a big Sikh community. The Sikh temple only opened on [01:14:10] a Sunday, and there wasn’t very much. So back in 1995 when my parents moved [01:14:15] up north, it was a very small Sikh community, so my parents would commute backwards [01:14:20] and forwards to Birmingham. And, um, one of our Sikh temples had like a matrimonial, [01:14:25] um, book. Book. Yeah. Pages. My mother would have [01:14:30] that posted out, and then she’d spend the evenings ringing each line. Well, she’d highlight [01:14:35] the ones that she’d want to call. She’d call, find out. And it would say something like, um, you [01:14:40] know, Sikh girl required. Must be at least five [01:14:45] foot something fair skinned. It’s like you can tick that off, mom, because I’m not fair. Must be [01:14:50] this must be that. You know, it was. It was really bizarre. And, um, so my [01:14:55] parents had this list. They highlighted a few. And one Sunday afternoon off the top totalled [01:15:00] my mom, my dad and my brothers. So five of them off they go [01:15:05] to Birmingham and go visit these families who had sons, eligible bachelors. [01:15:10] And I remember them coming back and I’m like, okay, how did you get on? And my brother’s [01:15:15] like, yep, think we’ve got the guy for you, Polly. Absolutely amazing. I think we’re sorted. [01:15:20] We’ve invited them back to come and see you, you know, in a couple of weeks. Okay. So do you want to tell me a little [01:15:25] bit about him? Yes. His name’s A-grade. Amol. He doesn’t go out. He doesn’t smoke, he doesn’t [01:15:30] drink. He’s got no friends. Perfect. I was like, oh great. So totally the [01:15:35] opposite.

Polly Bhambra: Not that I drink or smoke, but you know any other personality like, no, no, it’ll be fine. And literally [01:15:40] two weeks. I obviously met a few, but nothing sort of came of it. But [01:15:45] I met Emma and do you know what? He was genuinely lovely and nice [01:15:50] guy. Met a couple of times. So we met in the September of 98, [01:15:55] and we were married on the 4th of July 1999. So within [01:16:00] a year, your so-called allegedly dating in those days, we didn’t have [01:16:05] mobile phones and I lived in Preston. He lived in Wolverhampton. So it was. And then if [01:16:10] we were meeting, we were chaperoned. Oh, it was chaperones. I’m like, great. You’re sitting there having [01:16:15] a conversation. And then he’d come up on the weekend to with his mum and dad to visit me, and we’d sit in the, [01:16:20] you know, the front room having a cup of tea. I’m like, should we just go for a walk? And we’d walk round the grounds [01:16:25] and of my like, my mum and dad’s the rest home and have [01:16:30] a chat. I’m like, fine, see you in a couple of weeks then. And then I got married. First time I’d been to Wolverhampton. [01:16:35] I’d never been to Wolverhampton before I got married. That was some shock. Cultural? [01:16:40] Yes. Like what is that erected out of the roundabout? And it’s, you know, because it’s [01:16:45] industry and steel and whatever else. And it’s like, oh, that’s culture, that’s culture. But [01:16:50] yeah, 25 years later, we’re still going strong. Somebody asked me, [01:16:55] what’s the secret of a long married life? I said, I’m always at work, I’m never at home. [01:17:00] So it works.

Payman Langroudi: But he’s not involved in your business at all?

Polly Bhambra: Not at all. He’s [01:17:05] in it. And he’s got his own property portfolio. He works from home. My mother in law [01:17:10] is quite poorly, so he’s more or less her full time carer. Yeah. [01:17:15] So. And we live with my mother in law lives with us. So again [01:17:20] it’s so.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting within, within two, three generations. Yeah. You could your, [01:17:25] your kid could marry a Swedish person, [01:17:30] correct.

Polly Bhambra: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Whereas with you you [01:17:35] couldn’t even marry a different cast of person, let alone a religion or country.

Polly Bhambra: Country know [01:17:40] how times have changed, and I think this is the difference now with our children. And [01:17:45] maybe that’s why they’re so driven. It’s everything that you weren’t allowed to do or have. So [01:17:50] you’re giving those kids the opportunity. My oldest daughter, she’s 22, finished [01:17:55] the law degree. I would I mean, you weren’t allowed to go off and off to university. [01:18:00] My daughter’s had a year in Singapore, part of a university, which would have been unheard of. I [01:18:05] would be too scared to come home to say to my dad, oh, dad, I’m going to university and it’s abroad. It would [01:18:10] not have happened. Yeah, as a girl, it would not have happened. All my brothers would have. They would have been fine. Oh, [01:18:15] yes. Go. And they would be really proud. But as a girl. No no no no.

Payman Langroudi: I think Sikh men [01:18:20] are men. Oh, yeah. And women are, you know, women are women.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah, but there is that shift, I think. Yeah. [01:18:25] Sikh women are like, come, bring it on.

Payman Langroudi: I know loads of women who are amazing businesspeople. [01:18:30] Yes, loads. I mean, you guys are good at business generally, yes. Yeah, I know loads of Sikh women. [01:18:35]

Polly Bhambra: Strong Sikh women. Yes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And so as a society, we seek society. [01:18:40] A matriarchal society. The women are in charge of the men.

[TRANSITION]: I would say it’s shifted.

Polly Bhambra: The women [01:18:45] are now the matriarchs of, I would say, of society. Yes, there’s I would say Sikh [01:18:50] men are still very, you know, manly, strong, manly, affluent Sikh [01:18:55] turban and, you know, the beard, the presence. Obviously, a Sikh man walks in with [01:19:00] a turban into a room. He has a presence. I’ve got three brothers. One of them wears a [01:19:05] turban out of the three. But when he walks in the room to be taller, big, tall, broader beard, [01:19:10] there is a presence. There is a certain thing about him that, um, he [01:19:15] he has compared to my other two brothers, they’re equally as charming. However, there’s something more spectacular [01:19:20] about him because he wears his turban with pride. That’s his crown. And his beard. [01:19:25] He dresses very vibrant. Orange is his colour. So that kind of thing. Yeah, [01:19:30] but women, I think Sikh women are definitely, definitely holding their own and [01:19:35] standing shoulder to shoulder to Sikh men, in business, in family, in [01:19:40] entrepreneurship. Definitely.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, we were talking [01:19:45] I was talking to one of my other friends. He was saying having a daughter, when [01:19:50] he tells his parents there’s a disappointment.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How [01:19:55] long do you think that’s going to go on? I’m hopeful. Are we at the end of that now?

Polly Bhambra: My, [01:20:00] um. My experience with that. You’ve touched a nerve. I have two daughters. [01:20:05] Yeah. And I’ve had two miscarriages in between. And one being [01:20:10] was a miscarriage. Was a daughter because I was literally six months pregnant. And [01:20:15] then the the baby died. It still had to deliver, still had to have the funeral. [01:20:20] And the reaction from my family members was, it’s okay, it was a girl. It’s fine. Don’t [01:20:25] worry. And you think it’s my child? It’s my child. Doesn’t matter if it’s a boy or a [01:20:30] girl. I’ve still lost a child. And even after I’ve had my first daughter. Yeah. Fine. It’s [01:20:35] a girl. The second daughter. Oh, it’s a girl. Oh, and I remember going [01:20:40] to the Sikh temple. So we leave the hospital. I’ve got discharged. I go to the Sikh temple and [01:20:45] like an aunty asks, oh, is it a boy or a girl? I said, it’s a girl. And she went, never [01:20:50] mind, she’ll bring her brother. Her brother will follow, don’t worry. And literally you think what [01:20:55] you know, this has got to stop. But even with my own experience. Payman, I had two [01:21:00] girls and after I had my son, my. Who’s my third child? Only [01:21:05] then you felt that you’ve been accepted in society, in your own [01:21:10] family, that you’ve had your son. Now you’re good, you’re fine. And I’m hoping that stops [01:21:15] with my generation. So my children don’t have to feel that, because they won’t. [01:21:20] They won’t accept it. And the children coming forward now, my daughters, they would probably want [01:21:25] daughters because they see the relationship they have with their own mother. They would want that. So [01:21:30] I’m hoping that is he’s stopping. You still hear some stories of the [01:21:35] grown women who are lawyers and.

Payman Langroudi: In your culture, the daughters then goes, yeah, that’s [01:21:40] not the same in our culture, for instance. Yes. And maybe that’s that’s that’s element of it.

Polly Bhambra: It’s the [01:21:45] family name. It’s the daughter is they always say the daughter is somebody belongs to somebody [01:21:50] else. They have to leave their.

Payman Langroudi: Yes.

Polly Bhambra: Isn’t it. It’s mad. They have to leave their family name. They changed [01:21:55] their name. They change their their identity. They’ve given to another somebody else. That’s their [01:22:00] daughter. They leave. They’re never really their families. And that’s where the issue is. I don’t belong [01:22:05] to my my own family because I’ve got to leave. I go to my in-laws. I don’t really belong there or [01:22:10] fully accepted until I’ve had the son. Where am I, you know, felt wanted [01:22:15] or it’s mine in your own home. So yeah, it is. I’m hoping that [01:22:20] that cultural sounds awful nonsense will stop. It will stop with [01:22:25] our generation. You know, I’m 50. I’m hoping it stops with us. And it doesn’t [01:22:30] go on for generations. And again, it comes back to seeing our girls, [01:22:35] like, thrive and how well they’re doing and looking at Asian women. It [01:22:40] makes me proud when you see Sikh girls, girls doing so well in society, [01:22:45] in business, in law, you know, you think, wow, that’s amazing. Yeah. [01:22:50]

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, there was Indira Gandhi was president of India. Yes. Way before there [01:22:55] were women, women in charge of many other countries.

Polly Bhambra: Bhutto for Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto.

Payman Langroudi: Yes, [01:23:00] exactly. Yeah, exactly. So it’s it’s time. It’s time, it’s time.

Polly Bhambra: Absolutely. It’s time. [01:23:05] Yes.

Payman Langroudi: And you know, as much as it’s nice, it’s a nice thing for your daughter to marry a Sikh. Yeah. [01:23:10] Because the traditions and all that, as much as that is nice, it would be nice as well [01:23:15] if more people married out. Yeah. You know.

Polly Bhambra: And I think it’s coming.

Payman Langroudi: Societies, [01:23:20] you know, it’s coming. Do you see it more?

Polly Bhambra: Yes. But however, there is an issues [01:23:25] with our Sikh temples, the gurdwaras, As if it’s a mixed marriage.

Payman Langroudi: They’re not allowed to [01:23:30] have it.

Polly Bhambra: It’s frowned upon. You’re not allowed. So does a.

Payman Langroudi: Person have to sign a piece of paper saying they [01:23:35] are now a Sikh or.

Polly Bhambra: Something? Yeah, I’m assuming people.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t want to do that.

Polly Bhambra: They don’t want to do that. They don’t want to do that. And you’re [01:23:40] not allowed to take our equivalent of our, um, of our Bible out [01:23:45] of the Sikh temple now, because if there’s alcohol being served or meat is being served in big [01:23:50] stately homes and you think, well, I’ll have my wedding at a, you know, a lovely venue that that’s [01:23:55] frowned upon. I mean, even to the point where you can where now girls are not allowed to wear a certain dress. [01:24:00] Um, in the Sikh temple that stopped. It’s got to be fully covered trousers. [01:24:05] And, I mean.

Payman Langroudi: It’s gone backwards.

Polly Bhambra: It’s slightly. Yes. With that, because I think, [01:24:10] um, the Western cultural dress and combined with like the [01:24:15] Sikh langar that’s gone to westernised where they’re saying it’s too much [01:24:20] exposure of skin, you can’t just have, you know, your cleavage out and think you’re in a place of worship. Please [01:24:25] have some decorum for them. Respect. Yes. So that’s where that is. [01:24:30] I don’t think it’s gone back. It’s just setting the sort of values again. Yeah. What you mentioned [01:24:35] not meant to do in a Sikh temple. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been a massive pleasure having you. It really has. [01:24:40] Let’s get to our final questions. It’s been fascinating conversation. Thank you. Payman really [01:24:45] learnt a lot from you. Oh.

Polly Bhambra: Bless you.

Payman Langroudi: Thank you. The final question is always the same. Fantasy [01:24:50] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive.

Polly Bhambra: Oh, [01:24:55] definitely my mum. My mum. Honestly, it’s been two years [01:25:00] in August since my mum’s passed and Payman. Honestly, there’s not a day that goes by that [01:25:05] I don’t miss her or don’t think of her. Having her now sitting at this [01:25:10] table, it would be I would learn something from her every day. I’d learn something and even, [01:25:15] you know, silly things. I would be cooking, I would drink. It’s like, mum, what do I do next? [01:25:20] I’m going to FaceTime you. Tell me what I’m missing from this. Why does this not? Curry does not. Look how you make it. So [01:25:25] having my mom back just to have another conversation, hear her voice, the touch [01:25:30] that you speak.

Payman Langroudi: To her every day before.

Polly Bhambra: Oh goodness. On my. Honestly, it [01:25:35] was my routine. And when she passed, my friends sort of tried to fill that gap. My dad tried. It’s [01:25:40] not the same. So I would drop the kids off. That was my duty in the morning, drop the kids off, pull up at Costa, [01:25:45] grab my coffee, drive to work, and my mom would be my call from my Costa to [01:25:50] work and we would be having a chit chat. Chit chat. I’d get to work. I was like, mom, I’m at work now, call [01:25:55] you on my way home. And that would be twice a day, morning and night.

Payman Langroudi: Twice a day.

Polly Bhambra: Twice. [01:26:00] And because she lived in Preston, I tried to do that with my dad. Payman. It’s lovely [01:26:05] as it is. I love my dad to bits. It’s not the.

Payman Langroudi: Same. But imagine, imagine if you didn’t have those, you know, like there’s plenty [01:26:10] of people who don’t have that conversation.

Polly Bhambra: And then.

Payman Langroudi: Some, and then the person passes away. [01:26:15] Yeah, I’ve.

Polly Bhambra: Had some fantastic conversations. At least.

Payman Langroudi: At least you have the conversations. You know, you [01:26:20] have beautiful conversations.

Polly Bhambra: So many.

Payman Langroudi: People don’t. Know.

Polly Bhambra: I know why. I mean, I see it myself with [01:26:25] my own friends circle. They don’t have a relationship or a bond with their parents. [01:26:30] And it’s. And yeah, it’s very sad. So my mom would definitely be at the top of that list. [01:26:35] Yeah, she would be there and she and if I’d cooked, she’d be telling me off. That meal’s not good enough. This is missing. [01:26:40] Not enough salt or too much chilli or you’ve made it wrong. So definitely my mom. [01:26:45] Definitely. Um, another sort of powerful person because my mom has [01:26:50] a the traits of these other two women, as in Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady. [01:26:55] My mom had an element of her in her because she was resilient. [01:27:00] She had the grit. She came to England at the age of 16, couldn’t speak English, [01:27:05] and between her and my dad, they had their own little empire, five kids, [01:27:10] nursing homes, Preston restaurants.

Payman Langroudi: And she was like the the driving force. [01:27:15]

Polly Bhambra: She was the driving force. And as much as my dad might say, he wears the trousers and he’s [01:27:20] the man. My mom. He couldn’t.

Payman Langroudi: He couldn’t have done it without her.

Polly Bhambra: You’re saying she told him what colour trousers to wear? That’s [01:27:25] what it was. That’s what it was. He might wore the trousers, but she told him what colour. But she [01:27:30] was the matriarch of our family, as are the even within, you know, our [01:27:35] wider family. She was definitely. So Margaret Thatcher comes to mind. I think they would both have [01:27:40] great conversations because the 80s we had our shops and the Cold War and, you know, Margaret [01:27:45] Thatcher put herself on the map. And even till the end, Margaret Thatcher, she was self-sufficient. [01:27:50] She didn’t allow anybody to look after her. She booked herself into the Ritz, died at the [01:27:55] Ritz and my mum was very much the same. She passed away with a massive [01:28:00] pulmonary embolism in Antigua, sipping a cocktail, sitting on the beach. I [01:28:05] spoke to her in the morning. She was fine. Next thing, I get a phone call from my brother that my mum’s [01:28:10] passed. I said, that can’t be possible. He went. She was. She’s just been on the beach. [01:28:15] Um, had she’d been in the like, had a spa, came back sat, [01:28:20] had a massive pulmonary embolism and died in Antigua. I was actually in Singapore when that happened. [01:28:25]

Polly Bhambra: So then to bring her back to the UK, then do the funeral, then take her ashes back to India. [01:28:30] So traumatic, so traumatic. So Margaret Thatcher and my mom have [01:28:35] great traits in between that the Iron Lady and the [01:28:40] other trait of my mom had very much about sisterhood and about women and nurturing [01:28:45] and caring would be Mother Theresa. So the three, the four of us would have great conversations [01:28:50] about women, sisterhood, how to leave [01:28:55] a legacy behind, how to, you know, stand up for adversity. [01:29:00] And my mom was very much about that. Yeah. So those are my and if we’re going [01:29:05] to add a male to the combination, go on. Alexander [01:29:10] Bell. The guy who invented the the phone and saying, come on, did [01:29:15] you ever think that we were going to have You were going to invent something that we can’t live without. It’s glued to [01:29:20] our ears. It’s it, you know. Did you ever think that he was a Scotsman? [01:29:25] I think because my pa goes on about this Alexander Bell, how great he was. [01:29:30] And she’s Scottish. She’s Scottish. Yeah. Yeah, they’re very proud. Yeah. They’re very proud. Yes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Final [01:29:35] question. Yes. There’s a deathbed question.

Polly Bhambra: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s all supposed [01:29:40] to be horrible. It’s like it could be. It could be a different question. But it’s a deathbed question. You’re on your deathbed in many, [01:29:45] many, many years from now surrounded by your grandchildren’s grandchildren. If [01:29:50] you had to leave them three pieces of advice, what would they be? [01:29:55] Mm.

Polly Bhambra: You know, simple, simple things that we [01:30:00] just take for granted. We say, oh, it’s nothing. Sometimes those simple things are the big things. [01:30:05] Just simple. Be kind, be nice. You know, being you might [01:30:10] not have an education, you might not have money. But being kind and being nice will get you so far in life [01:30:15] you don’t realise and really treasure those moments. And you know [01:30:20] what? Don’t live to somebody else’s expectations. Don’t live to somebody [01:30:25] else’s. What they think you should be like or what they expect you to be like. Live for yourself [01:30:30] and do right by yourself what your heart says and the you know. And it’s the usual [01:30:35] work hard, be a kind person. But it is those. Be kind. Live to [01:30:40] your own expectations. Have a voice and always strive to be better. Thrive to do something [01:30:45] more. Don’t just give up at your first hurdle and it’s back to that. In [01:30:50] our Sikh culture, we have a state and it’s a state of mind which is called chardi [01:30:55] kala, which means everlasting positivity. No matter what throws at you have [01:31:00] that everlasting positivity. It will get you through anything. You know, the death of my mother [01:31:05] was so sudden, so traumatic. But I find every day that piece [01:31:10] of positivity that she left behind us. And you.

[TRANSITION]: Know, I.

Polly Bhambra: Still talk to her, say something. And lo and behold, [01:31:15] I get some. You know, the universe gives me that message. I’m like, thanks, mom. I get it, you [01:31:20] know? So it’s that so just. Yeah, that that would be my advice to my [01:31:25] young family behind.

Payman Langroudi: That’s going to be I reckon that’s going to be the name [01:31:30] of the episode.

Polly Bhambra: Everlasting positivity. Chardi Kala, my practice manager, [01:31:35] has that tattooed on her leg. [01:31:40] Can you believe it? She sent.

Payman Langroudi: Me a Sikh at.

Polly Bhambra: Least. No, she’s.

Payman Langroudi: Not.

Polly Bhambra: She’s not. [01:31:45] She’s white as they come. She’s amazing. She’s left. Actually, she again, that’s another [01:31:50] success story. Started off as a PM, did really well. And now she’s heading some [01:31:55] part of Portman somewhere and she’s got it on her thigh. Because that would be my mantra. Keisha [01:32:00] will get through anything. Just be positive. We’ll find a way. And she’s had that tattooed on her leg. Chardi [01:32:05] Kala.

Payman Langroudi: I’d like to have you back. You know, like in five years. Time to see what’s happened. [01:32:10] It’s one of the I can see. It’s a beautiful story so far, so I really, really, really enjoyed that. [01:32:15] Thank you so much for coming all this way.

Polly Bhambra: Thank you so much for your kindness. It’s been lovely. Honestly, I feel so humbled to be invited [01:32:20] to be in the same room as you and to be having this conversation. It’s lovely. So thank you. [01:32:25] Honestly, thank you so much.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, [01:32:30] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders [01:32:35] in dentistry. Your hosts Payman [01:32:40] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. [01:32:45] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from [01:32:50] me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has [01:32:55] had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think [01:33:00] about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think [01:33:05] might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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