Mark Becker: And I’m going to be guided by you. The old days of the dentist sitting there and saying, you have to have X, Y, and Z are over. [00:00:05] You have to. You know, I hate the phrase co-discover, but that’s the truth. At the end of the day, you [00:00:10] have to explain to patients, show them and say, you know, own. Own what you want. If you [00:00:15] want to leave things alone and wait for emergency dentistry, that’s fine, but own the responsibility [00:00:20] of that. If you’re going on holiday or something breaks, don’t be upset about it. That was your choice. [00:00:25] Yeah. And alternatively, if you want to, you know, gradually rehabilitate your mouth and fix everything, [00:00:30] you know, own the fact that, yes, it’s going to cost you some time. It’s going to cost you some money. You’re going to have to invest in yourself, [00:00:35] but own that, you know, you they have to take the responsibility on themselves [00:00:40] and treat them like the intelligent people that most of them are, but document everything.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:45] is Dental Leaders, [00:00:50] the podcast where you get to go one on one [00:00:55] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:01:00] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:01:05]

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome doctor Mark Becker onto [00:01:10] the podcast. Mark is a veteran of general practice.

Mark Becker: Makes me sound [00:01:15] like I’m 92 years old.

Payman Langroudi: Almost right.

Mark Becker: I might feel my joints might be 92, [00:01:20] but I’m not.

Payman Langroudi: Several practices all the way from squats. Um, [00:01:25] West End start ups, sort of, uh, existing [00:01:30] practices now culminating in a practice in Brent Cross in the shopping centre. [00:01:35] And, um, Mark’s on my radar because he’s one of the biggest enlightened users in the country. [00:01:40] Um, but I want to get from this conversation, Mark, sort of lessons [00:01:45] you’ve learned and, and things you’ve, you’ve, you’ve learned from people to do and not to do, [00:01:50] because along that journey you must have met a bunch of people. And also I’m quite [00:01:55] interested in before we started recording, we were talking about your dad, who had one of the first sort of multi [00:02:00] practice chains and what that gave you. So welcome to the [00:02:05] pod.

Mark Becker: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Payman Langroudi: So dentistry was dentistry always [00:02:10] going to happen for you.

Mark Becker: No. So dentistry wasn’t always going to happen for me. So my father was a dentist as you [00:02:15] said. He had a chain of surgeries. He employed a lot of dentists. If any South Africans are listening, [00:02:20] they’ll probably remember him, especially if they’re around my age. Um, I always [00:02:25] grew up with with South African dentists around or Australian dentists, you know, some of them were Springboks, [00:02:30] even some of them were in. We even had a couple of All Blacks work, you know, who were dentists at the time, who worked with dad. [00:02:35]

Payman Langroudi: What was the name of the group again?

Mark Becker: Tommy Parades and Barker Parade and.

Payman Langroudi: Becker.

Mark Becker: And um, [00:02:40] dad wanted me to do dentistry, but he was wise enough to know that, like any father, if you tell your son what [00:02:45] to do, chances are they’re not going to do it. Yeah. So I went off to, uh, [00:02:50] Southampton and did physiology and pharmacology first. Okay. Yeah. And I remember doing the [00:02:55] milk run, as they used to call it that they don’t remember because they’ll call it that. You’re looking for a job and the jobs [00:03:00] weren’t that impressive that were available. I think it was. You go and do some research studying for Mars or something, [00:03:05] and I thought, hmm, maybe not. And then I was going to apply for a PhD [00:03:10] in I think it was foetal endocrinology at those days, I think. And that never really amounted [00:03:15] to much. And my dad said, well, maybe you should look at something else. It doesn’t matter. You’re a bit [00:03:20] older now, but you can still do it. So of course, listening to my father, I thought, I’ll try medicine. [00:03:25] So my cousin was Colin Pogo and Colin Pogo was pogo [00:03:30] anaesthetics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and he had a. That’s your cousin. That’s my first cousin. Yeah. [00:03:35] He passed away, um, from pancreatic cancer, like my father. Um, and [00:03:40] I went to Colin, and he was working in Tunbridge Wells at the time, and I don’t know what my father said to [00:03:45] him at the time. My father being his uncle. Um, I go down there and I have never [00:03:50] heard. I spent three days down there with Colin. He was doing anaesthetics there, and I’ve never heard people moan [00:03:55] as much as the doctors and nurses that I’m sitting there and I’m thinking, I don’t ever hear the dentist [00:04:00] moaning as much as this. Maybe I’m cutting off my nose to spite my face here. So [00:04:05] I changed my mind and applied for dentistry, figuring I’ve got a degree, I can always do something. [00:04:10] And yeah, I got to say, for the moment I started, I really enjoyed it. I went to Leeds [00:04:15] and yeah, they, they work as hard. But I got to say a nice, nice load of people [00:04:20] there. Were you South.

Payman Langroudi: East based at the time I.

Mark Becker: Was, yeah I was, I was Southampton, London and I [00:04:25] grew up in London then went down to Southampton University, went, went up to Leeds [00:04:30] and.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. How did that strike you.

Mark Becker: Yeah that was yeah. We might have to dub this bit out actually. [00:04:35] Um, the truth is what.

Payman Langroudi: Is this 80s. We’re talking.

Mark Becker: Um, [00:04:40] we’re talking, uh, late 80s. No. Yeah. 88, 89, 89 went up to Leeds and [00:04:45] I’d never really been to the North. And don’t get me wrong, it’s a lovely place. There’s some beautiful places I’ve been to. [00:04:50] But my abiding memory of going to Leeds the first day was turning up [00:04:55] and yeah, we’re going to have to dub this bit out. Um, and watching, um, some lady pull [00:05:00] her kid’s pants down in the middle of the street for the kid to wee in the street. And that was my first day in Leeds, was genuinely [00:05:05] my first day in Leeds. And I’m thinking, you know, I’m still not in Kansas type scenario, but that [00:05:10] that was that was actually the worst of it. The rest was great, to be fair, but I just remember that happened to be my first day. Did [00:05:15] you enjoy the course? Yes, I think I did. Um, [00:05:20] I don’t think it prepares you for the real world at all. No. Um, and but I [00:05:25] can’t say I didn’t. I did have the advantage, however, of having done my degree beforehand, that some [00:05:30] of the harder first year subjects, which no one’s really that turned on by Typekit were relatively [00:05:35] easy for me, though. So. And that was more mature.

Payman Langroudi: Than the rest.

Mark Becker: Yeah, actually we had quite [00:05:40] a few, I think I think about there were about eight mature students in my year actually. There’s quite a few, a couple [00:05:45] of doctors as well who’ve gone on to be surgeons. Right. Um, well, they’re probably retired [00:05:50] by now.

Payman Langroudi: What were you like? Were you top of your class? Were, you know, Swot?

Mark Becker: No.

Payman Langroudi: Party animal. [00:05:55] Which which which.

Mark Becker: Certainly not a party animal. Never been a party animal. Never been accused of that, ever. [00:06:00] And if my if my wife heard me been accused of a party animal, she thinks I might be a pod [00:06:05] person, you know, being swapped over or something. Um, no, I’ve never been a party animal. [00:06:10] Being studious, I’m dyslexic, so I’ve always had to. Reading for me doesn’t come very [00:06:15] easily, so I’d always have to have a I’d go into the lecture [00:06:20] theatres and take the great big whiteboard and write everything down. And that’s the only way I got to remember stuff. So [00:06:25] for me to read and retain, it was always a little bit more difficult. But, um, yeah, [00:06:30] it gives you other advantages at the end of the day. And yeah, the course was yeah, [00:06:35] I look at it back at it fondly. I’m sure there’s days I hated I’m pulling my hair out. But [00:06:40] like every student.

Payman Langroudi: When you’ve got a dad who’s been so entrenched in dentistry, [00:06:45] having met so many dentists before even starting the course, did you have sort of an [00:06:50] idea of the kind of dentist you wanted to be early on?

Mark Becker: It wasn’t so much that it was like, [00:06:55] so I’d see things like, I remember going to my dad’s practice in Greenford Road in [00:07:00] Sudbury Hill, and he had a laboratory there and a dentures. In [00:07:05] those days it made loads of dentures. I remember sitting there playing with the wax at the age of six. My dad didn’t really want me in the office, [00:07:10] but it was half term and my mum didn’t need me in the house. So daddy, daddy Day-care and [00:07:15] daddy Day-care was a rex. A guy called Rex who used [00:07:20] to sit there and make dentures. And I remember just sitting there playing with the wax and playing around with that. And that [00:07:25] did help me a little bit later on, whether I remembered it or not. But I do remember doing [00:07:30] that. Did you have an.

Payman Langroudi: Idea of the type of dentist you wanted to be?

Mark Becker: No I didn’t. For me, dental dentistry was [00:07:35] just you are a dentist and that was it. It was there. Was there were you were you either want to be a specialist or [00:07:40] you were a general dentist. And that that was it. And I in general dentistry itself, I don’t think there [00:07:45] was there was so much division as to what you could do. You know these interests in [00:07:50] type topics. So whether it’s whitening or straightening teeth or, um, [00:07:55] you know, restorative work.

Payman Langroudi: Did you feel the weight of what your dad had had achieved? But, you [00:08:00] know, it’s.

Mark Becker: No, because I was always very different from him, because dad was more the business [00:08:05] of dentistry and he gave up dentistry, you know, probably when I [00:08:10] was really young, I mean, he he used to tell me the story of working on a patient, [00:08:15] doing a denture try and getting disturbed by six phone calls to do with other surgeries [00:08:20] and issues going on, and the patient just losing his rag at him and saying, you know, who are you paying [00:08:25] attention to? Your bookie? Because he thought he was gambling, wasn’t it? Was the dental surgeon. He was gambling in a different way. Yeah. [00:08:30] And, um, and he just said at that point he realised, you know, he’s got to either concentrate [00:08:35] on the business of dentistry or be a dentist. And truthfully, he probably made the right decision. [00:08:40] I probably made the wrong decision. I’m lucky, however, in that I’ve actually always loved doing it. Even to this [00:08:45] day, I still love doing dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: You’ve got to do what suits you in life. You know, if if owning ten [00:08:50] practices was right for him, it doesn’t mean it was right for you. But. But was he was he absent [00:08:55] a lot because he was so busy?

Mark Becker: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Or did he manage fatherhood changed. [00:09:00]

Mark Becker: Yeah, I.

Payman Langroudi: That was the norm.

Mark Becker: Back then. Yeah, I think it was the norm. I mean, I remember being [00:09:05] at home and he’d come in and he’d go straight to his office and do some work. And, you know, I call him when the news came on [00:09:10] TV or something, and he might come and watch the news with me. Um, and I think that’s just [00:09:15] the way things have changed. I mean, uh, maybe a little bit closer to the mark than I really wanted [00:09:20] to discuss. But things like, I remember when he was dying and he would turn around [00:09:25] and say, you know, you’re a better father than I was. And that’s, you know, I can understand [00:09:30] what he’s saying to me was the world, but for for my for myself, [00:09:35] you know, it wasn’t so much that I was a better father. We’re just different times we grew up in, you [00:09:40] know, the fathers expect to do more hands on things today. And, you know, those days, it [00:09:45] just wasn’t it was very much, you know, mother does mother’s role and daddy does daddy’s role.

Payman Langroudi: And although, you know, that’s the.

Mark Becker: Way [00:09:50] it was.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve had people sitting where you’re sitting. Um, incredible. I mean, a women [00:09:55] sometimes with children who owns 40 practices. Yeah. [00:10:00] Yeah. And you think, how is that possible?

Mark Becker: I don’t know how they got time to do it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. And then. But [00:10:05] then they’re incredibly sort of guilt ridden sometimes talking about how they can’t spend as much time with their kids [00:10:10] as they’d like to.

Mark Becker: I think that’s true of any, any, any woman working in the workplace and worried about balancing life [00:10:15] and.

Payman Langroudi: But but what I, what I always try and impress on them is that you do as a kid learn [00:10:20] by osmosis, you know, like in that same way if you’re sitting in the kitchen while your mum’s chopping [00:10:25] an onion, she doesn’t have to show you how she’s chopping the onion for you to sort of just pick it up. Yeah. [00:10:30] Yeah. And in the same sense, did you get any of that from your dad? Um. [00:10:35]

Mark Becker: Did I get any of that? What did you.

Payman Langroudi: Learn from him?

Mark Becker: From my hard.

Payman Langroudi: Work. [00:10:40]

Mark Becker: Hard work was the main thing I learned from my father. I mean, very different characters. I mean, he was a [00:10:45] collector. He collected everything. Stamps, coins, you know, pickle forks, I mean, you name it, he collected [00:10:50] it. Um, and he was, you know, he’d he’d be travelling, he’d, you know, [00:10:55] very, very family motivated. He’d literally pick up when we were going on holidays as a family, we’d be in a city [00:11:00] we’d never been to. We’d literally open up the, um, guidebook, you know, Telecom [00:11:05] telephone. What was it called? Yellow pages. Yellow pages. That’s it. And he literally opened the yellow pages and looked for family [00:11:10] names, find the family name of and literally start making phone calls. Were you related? You know, that he literally [00:11:15] go through the book and. And he found people. He found someone in, um, uh, Pittsburgh. [00:11:20] He found a family member we never knew he had. He found we were in Pittsburgh and we found a relative.

Payman Langroudi: What a character. [00:11:25] Yeah.

Mark Becker: So, um. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: All right, so let’s talk about did you have in [00:11:30] your days, I was.

Mark Becker: The first year compulsory. First compulsory. So you remember [00:11:35] the ball. You remember the ball that year?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mark Becker: Yeah, I was the chairman of the ball that year. Oh. You’re [00:11:40] kidding. Yeah, I was the one saying, please be quiet. Everyone’s screaming over there and there’s [00:11:45] no control at all. It was in Bloomsbury.

Payman Langroudi: So your first boss?

Mark Becker: My [00:11:50] dad.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, is that your dad? Yeah. So he was your boss, in fact.

Mark Becker: No, he wasn’t my boss. [00:11:55] Uh, a guy by the name of Mark Kaplan was one of my dad’s partners. And I’ll actually [00:12:00] be forever indebted to him for, like, teaching me dentistry, because I really think a lot from [00:12:05] him.

Payman Langroudi: The first boss sets you on a particular trajectory, and almost those [00:12:10] first lessons stick with you longer than other lessons because you start making up your mind.

Mark Becker: You [00:12:15] work from there. I mean, I think it was branches of a tree at the end. That’s where you start, and it sets you off along the right route at the end [00:12:20] of the day, and you or the right branch might be more appropriate.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so what sticks out? What sticks out [00:12:25] about that year? And like, what did you learn that year?

Mark Becker: I remember the stories that [00:12:30] happened. I mean, I was down in Stockwell. I remember my first day in practice. I [00:12:35] mean, it’s not a learning experience, but I remember turning to a patient and saying, [00:12:40] when was the last time you went to a dentist? He goes, ten years. And I said, why has it been so [00:12:45] long? He says, well, I’ve been away. And I turned around very maturely and said, why have you been [00:12:50] away that long? He says, where have you been? He goes detained at Her Majesty’s pleasure. Oh, this [00:12:55] is his first day. That’s how. That’s how green I was behind the ears. And, um, you know, [00:13:00] people turning up with hammers, knocking them on the door because, um, they were tracking down the [00:13:05] gentleman who was having an affair with their wife. And, uh, you know, the stories like that and, [00:13:10] um, panic alarms at the door. And, you know, although my favourite story was the, [00:13:15] uh. Yeah. I haven’t thought this in years. My favourite story was the, [00:13:20] uh, nothing to do with dentistry. Those were the fun ones. Um, the gentleman who was [00:13:25] basically CID came round and he’d left [00:13:30] his dental appointment card in the back of the getaway vehicle, and they [00:13:35] came and arrested him at the surgery. It actually happened a couple of months before I got there. I waited [00:13:40] for his appointment and literally came out of the appointment. Was arrested.

Payman Langroudi: How funny. Yeah.

Mark Becker: But, uh, that [00:13:45] that was that was an interesting stories.

Payman Langroudi: So then what did you do? A couple of associate jobs, [00:13:50] so I.

Mark Becker: So the first couple of years, I literally was the handyman who fell [00:13:55] in, you know, whenever dad’s surgery was empty. You know, there’s a job in Luton. We’ve got dentists [00:14:00] that you need to go up to Luton today and work in Luton for the day.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, filling in all those.

Mark Becker: Places, filling in so [00:14:05] and in in many ways it was a great experience. That was after my. So the uh, South [00:14:10] uh, was um Stockwell and learnt a lot there. Um, [00:14:15] interesting place to work. Um, but after that 2 or 3 years, I [00:14:20] was literally running in, filling in. It might be Putney one day and Tring the next.

Payman Langroudi: And I [00:14:25] bet you learnt a load.

Mark Becker: Yeah. Because all different types of communities and different types of people and different types of dentists [00:14:30] as well. So you learnt a lot and the staff were all different and you went from everyone, [00:14:35] you know, different. One practice where they’d be talking about their summer holidays. They’re going on to [00:14:40] another practice where they’re discussing their mate. John’s just been done for GBH [00:14:45] and, um, you know, and everything in between. Everything in between you’d meet. So, yeah, it was [00:14:50] a great learning experience. Didn’t appreciate it at the time. At the time it was just quite a different surgeries to go [00:14:55] to. And I’ve got to remember all the names and you know where. Where’d you moved out.

Payman Langroudi: At this point? Were you, were you living [00:15:00] with your parents?

Mark Becker: No, no, I’d moved out. I was living in Maida Vale. So, uh, talking [00:15:05] about life’s regrets, though. Don’t sell property if you don’t have to. I had a lovely apartment [00:15:10] in Maida Vale. We sold. Um, yeah. And I’ve noticed.

Payman Langroudi: Every time I’ve sold a property, I’ve then [00:15:15] gone and bought a very similar property 3 or 4 years down the line, and regretted.

Mark Becker: Selling the first one.

Payman Langroudi: Might as well [00:15:20] have just kept that first one. Exactly.

Mark Becker: Yeah. So, yeah, try not to sell property if you can help it. Yeah. [00:15:25]

Payman Langroudi: Um, but so where did the career go next.

Mark Becker: So the career. So [00:15:30] with my, my dad wanted to set me up, you know, like a father worrying about his son. So [00:15:35] he he got me involved in a new surgery they were buying. There was a [00:15:40] friend of his who was always looking at surgeries, and they [00:15:45] came up with this practice in Islip and they got me to run it there. [00:15:50] And that was an interesting experience because I was quite young. I was only about 4 or 5 years [00:15:55] experience when I was running a dental surgery with five associates there, um, where we built [00:16:00] it up. I built it up to five associates. When I took over. There were three partners there originally, and there were more [00:16:05] rooms and availability. So we had a was it mixed? It was it was NHS at the time we took [00:16:10] over, it was NHS. And then that’s when the inverted commas new contract came out. And [00:16:15] I just looked at it and I thought this just isn’t workable. And one of the things that really [00:16:20] wound me up and one of life’s things that I found unfair, was that if you were [00:16:25] an ethical dentist, you made much less money, you got paid a lot less. So [00:16:30] we were offered, I think it was £16 a UDA and I know the guys down the road were [00:16:35] on £32 on UDA and I’m like, what? We’re doing the same thing as them. Yeah. And I and that’s [00:16:40] when I just literally chucked the towel in for NHS. I said I’m not doing it. I took the whole practice [00:16:45] private with it. We kept a kids contract as you could in those days, and we went private and we and everyone [00:16:50] was like, you know, I’ve got to say, there was a few sleepless nights, to say the least. Yeah. And we lost some [00:16:55] patients. But you know, what’s the ratio? Did you did you.

Payman Langroudi: Go with them plan or someone to sort of hold [00:17:00] your hand in that.

Mark Becker: Process. Start with then plan and and and funnily enough I’ve [00:17:05] just left them this week for the first time. I’ve gone to practice back then.

Payman Langroudi: Plan, then plan was the only. [00:17:10]

Mark Becker: Yeah, it was the only game in town. Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: I remember, I remember at practice I was working at that [00:17:15] did the exact same thing. But you know, there’s going to be someone or lots of people listening to this who [00:17:20] are in mixed practices. I apologise.

Mark Becker: Now then.

Payman Langroudi: No, no, but mixed practices and have had enough. [00:17:25]

Mark Becker: So the truth is, you know, we don’t as dentists in this country, my personal opinion, [00:17:30] we don’t really value ourselves. And I think it comes down to and I’ll probably [00:17:35] get some hate mail off the back of this, the NHS and the problem with healthcare in this country, [00:17:40] as far as I’m concerned, is we all grew up not so true now, but we grew up at a [00:17:45] time where it was pretty much free. Yeah. And it was free. And the problem with giving patients [00:17:50] something that it’s not really free, they’re paying for it in their taxes, but the perception is it’s free. [00:17:55] So if someone comes in and they’re paying, I think the maximum charge for treatment is £200 [00:18:00] or something at the time, if I remember correctly. You know, if that’s the value that is applied to it, [00:18:05] then there is no value to the person receiving it, and there’s also no value to the person [00:18:10] who’s providing it. And therefore I think we undervalue ourselves because [00:18:15] of the way we all grew up with this inverted comma free system, which, [00:18:20] you know, just undermines, you know, how we feel about ourselves and how we value [00:18:25] ourselves. And it’s very difficult to move away from that very large, [00:18:30] embracing system that controlled our lives. And it’s a scary thing to move away from. [00:18:35] I think what people have to understand is that, you know, you’re valued more by your patients [00:18:40] than you think you are.

Mark Becker: Mhm. Um, and you have to have a leap of faith at some point [00:18:45] because you can’t be tied to a, to a paymaster who [00:18:50] doesn’t respect you at the end of the day. Yeah. And you know, whatever they say, they’ve never really [00:18:55] made up for the loss of our salaries. Patients don’t understand the difference [00:19:00] between how medicine is funded and how dentistry is funded. They don’t know that. You know, [00:19:05] you’re taking a mortgage against your personal home to finance your [00:19:10] surgery at the end of the day. And when you tell patients that they look at you like they’re mad because they honestly [00:19:15] believe. And if you ask your patients, they honestly believe that whatever money they give you goes straight into your [00:19:20] pocket. The dentist owns everything. So you know that £600 for a crown [00:19:25] or whatever it was, you know, that goes straight in there. They don’t know anything about lab bills? They don’t know anything about [00:19:30] the CQC compliance. They don’t know about your materials, your equipment. They don’t know. There’s no reason why they should. It’s never [00:19:35] explained to them. Yeah. And if they if they could understand that, they’d probably have a little bit more understanding [00:19:40] of the situation we’re in at the end of the day.

Payman Langroudi: But let’s talk about let’s say I’ve had [00:19:45] enough. I want to leave. I want to go all private top tips, because [00:19:50] I’ve seen that process a few times. And I’d say one. One top tip is [00:19:55] start making the place better before making that jump so that your [00:20:00] patients.

Mark Becker: Start to see something.

Payman Langroudi: Different. Yeah. So your patients start to feel really lucky to be treated in a place like. [00:20:05]

Mark Becker: Sure, they’re seen on time as well.

Payman Langroudi: Of course. Yeah. To make everything better before the jump.

Mark Becker: Yeah. You’ve [00:20:10] got you’ve got to, you know, give them something to understand why you’re suddenly charging [00:20:15] them more, why you’re leaving it. I’d try and avoid the word private. I try and use the word independent [00:20:20] rather than private. Private has pretty bad. I remember those days as well. Yeah. So I [00:20:25] try and stay away from that. But, um, and.

Payman Langroudi: Take your staff with you.

Mark Becker: So, no, if you don’t [00:20:30] have your staff with you, then you might as well just shut shop because you’re going to go nowhere. I mean, really important, right? If [00:20:35] you can’t keep your nurse and you can’t keep your hygienist and you can’t keep your receptionist. No, but.

Payman Langroudi: What I mean is [00:20:40] mentally, psychologically, your staff have to be 100%.

Mark Becker: On board in if they don’t buy in, [00:20:45] you know, your staff have to understand it. You will get a person, you know, one of the staff who you know will have [00:20:50] a moral and ethical grounds, and you have to just sit down and maybe explain to them, listen, [00:20:55] I don’t want to pay you a decent salary, and I can only do that if I’m making the living [00:21:00] to do that at the end. We want to do decent work.

Payman Langroudi: We want to be.

Mark Becker: Proud of what we do.

Payman Langroudi: That’s the key thing, isn’t it? [00:21:05]

Mark Becker: You know, you’ve got to have pride in what you do. I mean, I lose contact when I still if I miss a contact point, [00:21:10] I’ll lose sleep over it. It really bothers me, you know, and I, [00:21:15] I know it sounds silly, but that’s, you know, the nature of the beast. At the end of the day. [00:21:20]

Payman Langroudi: I think so many people will relate to that.

Mark Becker: It’s just and you see other stuff that you see coming a lot of the time. [00:21:25] Some work done abroad and you see what’s been done and you think, and I lose sleep over a contact point, you [00:21:30] know, really and you know, and some of it and stuff. And that’s always the frustrating [00:21:35] thing about dentistry is you know that endo you know, you look at it and you think, how was that dentist not struck off? [00:21:40] And the patient says to you, it was done 40 years ago and it’s never bothered me. And you’ve got that beautiful [00:21:45] one done by you or a specialist, and you’re proud of it or impressed with what the specialist did. And [00:21:50] they go, yeah, there’s five canals and one’s like an S shape. And you think, how do you do that? It’s brilliant. [00:21:55] And the patient goes, yeah, but it bothers me every day. And you’re like, you roll your eyes and you think, oh really? [00:22:00] That’s that’s that’s the that’s the that’s the job we’re in.

Payman Langroudi: Not not to mention no [00:22:05] one’s looking over your shoulder. Not even not even the nurse. Well, [00:22:10] yeah. So.

Mark Becker: So it’s your own. It’s your own compass. It’s your own moral compass.

Payman Langroudi: It’s your own professionalism. [00:22:15] And at the end of the day, we called the profession for a reason. Right? It’s what happens when no one’s looking. But [00:22:20] but you know, the you can take it to the nth degree, right? You can [00:22:25] check every every contact point. Every every matrix can be perfect. Every wedge can [00:22:30] be perfect. And then you’ll find someone else who does even more than you do.

Mark Becker: Oh, absolutely. There’s, you [00:22:35] know, there’s always someone better. Yeah. There’s always a.

Payman Langroudi: Question. My question, though, is [00:22:40] this podcast has been brought to you by Mini Smile Makeover. Mini smile makeovers are two day anterior [00:22:45] composite course led by the extraordinary talented doctor Dipesh Palmer. Two [00:22:50] days of full on, hands on composite training. Purely focussed on anterior [00:22:55] work composite veneers, polishing, finishing, shade matching. You also get a free [00:23:00] enlightened kit on that course. Plus we have a great time and a party in the middle. Find out [00:23:05] the dates. Mini smile makeover.com. Now let’s get back to the podcast. How do you keep [00:23:10] up to date and keep interested enough to keep up to date technology? Are you [00:23:15] driven by that?

Mark Becker: Yeah, I’m driven by by technology and buying the latest [00:23:20] kit and going on courses and understanding and moving on and I because lots of people [00:23:25] stagnate.

Payman Langroudi: Right?

Mark Becker: Well, well that’s interesting because my my back to my father, my father’s generation, you know, you [00:23:30] qualified in the 60s and that’s type of where you stopped and you were working in [00:23:35] the in the 90s and you were still doing 60s dentistry. Yeah. And even today there’s a couple of dentists who retired [00:23:40] who have got fantastic hands. Their work is amazing. I mean, but you look at the mouth and you [00:23:45] think, well, those amalgams were, you know, that’s what people were doing in the 60s and 70s and they’re still providing them. [00:23:50] Now, don’t get me wrong, they last well, but you look at and think, well, there are other things that can be done for patients [00:23:55] these days. And patients haven’t been given the options.

Payman Langroudi: But but the difference between someone who’s staying in [00:24:00] touch and do you use rubber dam for instance? I don’t not.

Mark Becker: Use rubber dam. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Well I mean.

Mark Becker: If I [00:24:05] all my my nurse laughs I mean I even been known to do my preps under rubber [00:24:10] dam. Yeah. So you know I just find it’s more pleasant for the patients.

Payman Langroudi: But so what I’m saying is some people [00:24:15] will continue to keep on changing their behaviour, continue to learn. I [00:24:20] don’t know, maybe start using loops when they didn’t used to before scanners. Just everything [00:24:25] that’s new. There is so much some people won’t at all. It makes it.

Mark Becker: So much more enjoyable. [00:24:30] Yeah, it really does. I mean, I bought a [00:24:35] scanner. I’m trying to blank on the name. Um, no, actually, I’m buying a [00:24:40] nightmare at the moment. I’ve got a three shape at the moment, and I bought it during Covid [00:24:45] and my wife wasn’t impressed. It was like spending money. And I said, is she.

Payman Langroudi: Involved [00:24:50] in the practice?

Mark Becker: No, no. But she’s like, wants to know what’s going on at the end of the day, you know, buying an expensive piece [00:24:55] of kit, she’s going to want to know. Um, and she’s very supportive. Yeah. And I remember [00:25:00] buying it during Covid. And I said to her, look, the problem is that if I don’t buy it now, [00:25:05] when I can sit down, play with the equipment, learn how to use it once the surgery [00:25:10] opens up again, I’m going to be mad busy again and I don’t have time to sit down. [00:25:15] So I took it as an opportunity, you know, to [00:25:20] to learn something new. And I was always very much against it. I was like, well, how do you [00:25:25] get your margins subgingival margins, you know, what are you going to do with a post core? And you know, all [00:25:30] that type, those questions that, you know, some things you just can’t do with your scanner, you just need to get [00:25:35] your heavy body impression.

Payman Langroudi: Is that the answer? And say.

Mark Becker: Yeah. Is that the answer? That’s the answer. Sometimes you have to know what [00:25:40] the equipment, what your what it’s going to work for. At the end of the day, there are certain things where the preps to [00:25:45] subgingival you’re doing a post core and crown. Well, you can’t get that with a scan. Um, [00:25:50] you know, I’m sure someone will come up with some type of implant related post to put down, or [00:25:55] something will happen, but not at the moment. And you just have to get your heavy body out and take take [00:26:00] your impression and hope you haven’t forgotten your techniques too much.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about Ruislip. [00:26:05] So then what? What made you sort of shut that one down or sell it and move on? [00:26:10]

Mark Becker: So Ruislip became um, it was [00:26:15] a large practice. I had five, 4 or 5 associates, two hygienists, a [00:26:20] surgeon coming in, and it became I enjoy dentistry, I don’t enjoy the business of dentistry. [00:26:25] And I found it was I found it too distracting for me that [00:26:30] I wasn’t doing what I wanted to do, which was at the coalface, and the [00:26:35] practice prices were going up at that point. And I thought, you know what? Let’s let’s put it on the market. [00:26:40] And I got a nice number for it. And I took some time off, and then I got very [00:26:45] bored playing golf with people 20 or 30 years older than me. Um, and uh, realising [00:26:50] that actually you’ve got to get back to dentistry because I was missing it. How old were you there? Uh, 42, [00:26:55] 43, something like that.

Payman Langroudi: She had it for a good few years.

Mark Becker: Yeah, I had rice for a while. [00:27:00] I had it for ten years or so. Ten, 12 years, something like that.

Payman Langroudi: And by the time [00:27:05] you sold it, it was a private.

Mark Becker: So when we sold it, it was a private practice with the children’s contract, and there were still [00:27:10] five instead of three dentists working, there were five dentists working there. So you know that that fear [00:27:15] of jumping out the NHS. Actually, you know, I remember buying the practice and I remember [00:27:20] the appointment books and I it was higher than these microphones. It was thick. There were five minute appointment books. [00:27:25] Literally they were booking on the five minutes. And I just looked at like, oh, this is absolutely madness. They [00:27:30] also didn’t they also didn’t take credit cards. It was cheque and cash only. And this was this [00:27:35] is like the early 1990s. It’s not like, you know, in the 60s or something. They didn’t [00:27:40] take they didn’t have a credit card machine. And I thought this is all madness. So first thing that came in was a credit card machine or a debit machine, [00:27:45] and then get rid of these five minute diaries. They were so big, you just had to you could only have so many reception. [00:27:50] They just took up so much room. I don’t think you could buy those anymore. I remember those they were. You wanted. [00:27:55] You didn’t need to go to the gym. You just pick these things up and, you know, you get your work up. Lifting the five minute [00:28:00] diary up so that that went out the window and we went to a [00:28:05] computer as well. And I think it was I think it was called Arthur, the original system rather than Arthur. It [00:28:10] was Arthur. Yeah, yeah. And we had that. And um.

Payman Langroudi: So you sold it. You’re now [00:28:15] playing golf, getting bored?

Mark Becker: Yes. And, um, decided a [00:28:20] friend of mine who’s a doctor, um, said to me, you know, I was telling him I was getting a bit bored, and he said, well, go and [00:28:25] talk to these doctors who were just opening up a private medical centre called Chase Lodge Hospital, [00:28:30] which was in, uh, not far from where I was living at the time. And my kids were at school around the [00:28:35] corner. So I thought, this is fantastic. So I can go and work there, and I can go and watch my kids play rugby [00:28:40] or football or whatever the game they’re playing. And I opened up a squat and [00:28:45] I remember the first day, the first week I had one patient booked in and, um, [00:28:50] the patient phones up and says, you know, I’m terribly sorry. I’ve got to move the appointment. [00:28:55] When are you available? You know, have you got any availability? I said, oh, let me have a look. I’ll see what [00:29:00] I can find. When would suit you? And funnily enough, I was available when you could come in. Um, [00:29:05] but. Yeah. And I built that up gradually. And, you know, one [00:29:10] of the difficult things I found this was a life lesson. It sounds silly, but [00:29:15] I remember having to give a patient having to swallow your pride [00:29:20] a little bit when he opened a new practice. Or if you go private and sends the patient and say, look, here’s [00:29:25] my card, you’re happy with what I’ve done? Yeah, please recommend me. You know that. You [00:29:30] know, you find that.

Payman Langroudi: Hard to do. I found that.

Mark Becker: Really hard to do initially. The first ten, 20 times. Really [00:29:35] hard to swallow my pride. I need your I need my patient’s help to build my practice. Yeah. And [00:29:40] like, please recommend me. And you know, patients generally most of them want to help [00:29:45] you. Most of them are good people. You get the occasional one who will turn around and say, well, why would I do that? Because I don’t want them to be busy when [00:29:50] I want to come and see you and you roll your eyes and think, well, I might not be here with, I won’t have a business if I don’t have any [00:29:55] other patients. So, um, but most patients are lovely.

Payman Langroudi: And I think that that process, [00:30:00] I mean, when you look at people building practices, the process of asking for reviews and. [00:30:05] Yeah, I know what you mean about the sort of the distasteful nature of it or [00:30:10] somehow implying that you’re not very busy. But on the other hand, like you say, [00:30:15] people want to help people that they trust and like. I mean, sometimes.

Mark Becker: You read the reviews and [00:30:20] you think, whoa, thank you. I mean, that’s a bit over the top. But, you know, that’s how they felt at the [00:30:25] end of the day. And we’re not paying them for the review. And people, the truth is most people are [00:30:30] nice. Yeah. Most people are good people. And because it reminds me of you talking about [00:30:35] student times, I remember that you probably had a similar lecture that, you know, the defence unions come [00:30:40] in to give you a lecture before you qualify. They put a great big picture up of Oxford Street at the Christmas sales, [00:30:45] and they go in there. Someone’s going to make your life miserable. You don’t know which one it’s going to be. Yeah. [00:30:50] And we’ve all got those patients where you see them in your diary and you think, do I want to take a sickie [00:30:55] today? Really? And the amazing thing is they always manage to, you know, you might have four out of 4000 patients. [00:31:00] And those four patients like they they get on the WhatsApp said, let’s go and make Mark’s life difficult today. We’ll all [00:31:05] turn up on the same day. Yeah. And it’s just amazing. They all pitch up on the same day. Those four difficult patients. [00:31:10]

Payman Langroudi: And, uh. But so, look, we before we were talking about as the [00:31:15] technology changes, some people keep up, some people don’t, some people like it, some people don’t. But [00:31:20] as everything else changes. So for instance, this thing on reviews, stuff [00:31:25] on CQC, stuff, you know, all that stuff’s changing. Look. And you’ve been through [00:31:30] it over, what, 30 years? Yeah.

Mark Becker: I mean for me enlightened is a great example. Yeah. Yeah. I [00:31:35] mean I traditionally haven’t done a lot of whitening. I mean, you know, how many I do and [00:31:40] you do a lot I know, but I traditionally haven’t. Yeah. And the reason I traditionally [00:31:45] haven’t was the system I did I was one of the first to get the bright smile machine, the pod when [00:31:50] it first came out. And I was there till 12:00 at night, you know, literally patients stacked [00:31:55] up to do it and relaunched the same.

Payman Langroudi: Day as them back, back in 2001.

Mark Becker: Okay. So [00:32:00] um, and then they had um, then there was a zoom [00:32:05] came out and you get the odd patient who still wants to isn’t going to use trays, and you just have to accept [00:32:10] it and you keep the machine there for the odd case. And then there was the biolase one as well. Um, do [00:32:15] you have a laser? Yeah, I have, yeah. I was one of the first people involved with lasers as well. So I’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Got [00:32:20] hard tissue.

Mark Becker: As well as the water laser. And by the epic ten year. Oh, both. Yeah. So. [00:32:25] Yeah. So, yeah, I’ve had them for a while, although I’m lucky I’ve got a periodontist on my team [00:32:30] now who uses a lot of laser, so it’s getting more use than it normally does to be honest. There was a [00:32:35] short period of time where I was sitting there as a cup of tea holder, but, uh. But I know [00:32:40] it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Used a lot. Crown lengthening with the laser.

Mark Becker: Crown lengthening with laser. Yeah. Um, a lot of perio [00:32:45] stuff with laser. Um, yeah. I mean, I find that [00:32:50] particularly useful on your margins, but whenever you’re doing a, you know, a little bit of, um, troughing. [00:32:55] So no more electric surge at all. I gave my electric surge to my surgeon many years ago. [00:33:00] Oh, really? Yeah. I just gave it to my surgeon. I just haven’t touched it in. I used to use. I used to use electrosurgery [00:33:05] a lot. Terrible smell. Um, but, um, you know, I gave that up as soon as I had a laser. [00:33:10] I haven’t looked back. And the lasers are great. I mean, I know a lot of dentists. Pooh Pooh them, but I’ve [00:33:15] seen some fantastic results with them. Really fantastic.

Payman Langroudi: If you know what you’re doing. Yeah, well, it’s like everything else. [00:33:20]

Mark Becker: Well, it’s. Again, back to, you know, something’s working in your hands and some things don’t. You’ve just got to know the protocols and you’ve got to [00:33:25] be able to, you know. Blend with it almost that it works in your hands.

Payman Langroudi: So for, [00:33:30] for a for a crown lengthening. Does only the periodontist take care of that. Would you do that.

Mark Becker: Well I’ve got to pay down some stuff [00:33:35] so you know why not.

Payman Langroudi: He’s there the whole time, is he.

Mark Becker: Oh [00:33:40] no no no no, she’s there a couple of days a month.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So she’s always available.

Mark Becker: Yeah, she’s always [00:33:45] available.

Payman Langroudi: So we might as well. Fast forward quickly to what’s the setup right now.

Mark Becker: So [00:33:50] we’ve literally been there six months. Yeah. It’s been a very there’s [00:33:55] a real big learning curve moving into a shopping centre because the landlords don’t [00:34:00] understand the difference between a retailer and a healthcare practitioner. [00:34:05] Yeah. And they are very different. I mean, silly things like the Brent Cross Shopping Centre wouldn’t let me put anything [00:34:10] on their windows to obscure. But CQC needed the the reception [00:34:15] area, the sitting area there blocked out. So you end up making a compromise that doesn’t look brilliant and you [00:34:20] do the best you can at the end. Silly things like that. And there was a lot of silly things like that. Um, [00:34:25] but now we’ve got two associates coming in. They do three days between them. I’ve [00:34:30] got a periodontal staff. I have an implantology starting as well. Um, and, you [00:34:35] know, it’s, um, it’s growing. It’s it’s still every day you see patients like the [00:34:40] dentist in Brent Cross. It’s like they just don’t know. It’s not. It’s more of an American model than a UK [00:34:45] model, but for patient convenience. And we were talking earlier about, you know, looking for [00:34:50] the right site to relocate my surgery to. It was just a shot in the dark, sitting with a friend [00:34:55] in a car, literally saying, you know, after being depressed by looking at so many not [00:35:00] awful but unsuitable premises when I was looking to relocate, [00:35:05] you know. The main thing is parking. Your patients want to be able to park somewhere. And I said as a joke [00:35:10] to him, I said, you know, someone should open up in Brent Cross. And he literally picked up his wife, didn’t pick up his phone, he speed [00:35:15] dialled them on the on the car phone, and he happened to know the person who was involved with Brent Cross. [00:35:20] And that’s how I got fortunate to do it. But negotiations with the landlord are very difficult. They [00:35:25] just don’t get it. Um, as in.

Payman Langroudi: What costs are higher? If costs.

Mark Becker: Are, costs [00:35:30] are definitely higher.

Payman Langroudi: And you have to jump through hoops loads. As in what? Prove prove [00:35:35] that you’re going to look a certain way and be a certain way.

Mark Becker: Or there was just there were so many [00:35:40] hoops that, you know, my brain just is like, put them in a corner of my mind, put a [00:35:45] lock the key away and said, don’t open that box again and don’t think about it because, you know, they [00:35:50] didn’t make it easy. The legal stuff, I mean it just backwards and forwards, the same [00:35:55] questions and, you know, saying we can’t do that. We’re a dental surgery. And they’re going, but [00:36:00] you know, they always wanted mannequins in the window. I mean, we’re dancers. You wouldn’t be [00:36:05] up in the window, I mean.

Payman Langroudi: And is there a massive footfall they’ve got?

Mark Becker: Yeah. The footfall for [00:36:10] breakfast is large. Um it is. Yeah. There’s, there’s, there is a significant [00:36:15] footfall.

Payman Langroudi: So are there loads of people compared to a normal.

Mark Becker: Oh no. We get lots of [00:36:20] walk ins. Actually the biggest walk in thing is for the hygienists. Uh, direct access for the hygienist [00:36:25] is, is is big. We will have 3 or 4 patients a day for that sometimes. And they translate.

Payman Langroudi: To [00:36:30] patients in the end. Right.

Mark Becker: They will eventually. We’re only six months in. So, you know, we’ve seen a few of them transfer [00:36:35] over and you know, but that that takes time. And, you know, it’s a snowball [00:36:40] effect building a surgery. You’ve just got to, you know, keep people happy and make sure you give your cards out. [00:36:45] And I do moan at my associates, you know, if your patients are happy, give them your card. Yeah. You know, they’ve [00:36:50] got brothers, they’ve got sisters, they’ve got relatives, they’ve got friends, they’ve got family. You know, if they’re happy with you, [00:36:55] let them spread, let them talk about you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know, I had someone here, he said. [00:37:00] He’s got a very successful West End practice, and he said the whole thing, [00:37:05] he puts down to one patient from the Qatari embassy or something. [00:37:10] One patient, he says without that one patient, none of this would happen. Because he blew [00:37:15] the socks off one person. That guy sent him another ten. And then the thing the ten.

Mark Becker: Did they send you another [00:37:20] ten each?

Payman Langroudi: The thing built up the importance of that relationship with each patient who’s really [00:37:25] happy with you. You can’t underestimate. Especially if you’re trying to build something. Right.

Mark Becker: Look, you’ve [00:37:30] got to love what you’re doing. You’ve got to really care for your patients as well. You’ve got to really, you know, be [00:37:35] sensible with things. You know, things. Sometimes things don’t go wrong. Own that. You know, if [00:37:40] something doesn’t go right on your patient’s mouth at any dentist who ever tells me I never get any [00:37:45] problems, nothing ever goes wrong. Nonsense. You know, if you’re not having problems, then you’re not doing anything because [00:37:50] there’s always something that’s not going to go right. You’re not going to explain something right to the patient. You know that [00:37:55] deep feeling? Well, I forgot to warn that it might turn into a root treatment. You know, it’s the old [00:38:00] story. If you tell the patient at the time and you say, look, and and one of the biggest things for me [00:38:05] is photos. I photograph everything, you know. So my patients can see you tell them what you want. But if you can [00:38:10] show them a photograph, you know, show them the deep feeling. Show them where the decay was. Show them where the nerve was. Showed them. She’s [00:38:15] a.

Payman Langroudi: Real camera. Intraoral intraoral.

Mark Becker: Camera. It’s just a nice, quick, easy. Gives everything. [00:38:20] I think probably of all the expensive stuff I have in my surgery, the internal camera is probably the [00:38:25] most important thing because if you can show your patients, it’s like taking your car in, you know, [00:38:30] to the service, and they suck in air and they, they twist their head over and and [00:38:35] you don’t know what they’re talking about at the end of the day. And you know, you know, it’s all you know is how much they’re asking you for. [00:38:40] But if you can sit down and you can sit down with your patient and you can show them the picture, look, this filling, you [00:38:45] see the big crack through the filling here that’s leaking. That’s going to cause a problem. I’d rather deal with it now before it caused you root treatment. [00:38:50] If it’s a deep filling, take the photographs or take 3 or 4 photographs. I probably take 20 photographs. [00:38:55] For every filling I do, I delete 12 of them, probably, or 16 of them, and I keep the poignant ones. [00:39:00] But the patient can see what’s going on. If the patient understands you, tell them beforehand, look, there’s a chance [00:39:05] this is going to give you a problem. If it does, I’d rather not treat it. Now, if you come back in pain, then [00:39:10] unfortunately, you know we’re going to have to do a treatment, but I’d rather give it the chance of healing, you know. And [00:39:15] please don’t be upset if it comes back. Please just here’s my number. Just call me if there’s a problem. You know, all my patients [00:39:20] have my WhatsApp number. I don’t look at my phone all the time, but it’s a problem. Just give me a call. You know, [00:39:25] WhatsApp me. Say, Mark, does it feel right?

Payman Langroudi: Amazing how people respect that as well. The mobile number [00:39:30] thing.

Mark Becker: That.

Payman Langroudi: I give my mobile number to every enlightened user, I never get called. Very rarely. [00:39:35] Very people think that, you know, overstepping because you.

Mark Becker: Remind me to get your number at the end.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:39:40] in the training. But okay, [00:39:45] so those those basics, right. The basics of treat people well. Be a professional. [00:39:50] Tell me the basics of running teams staff.

Mark Becker: You’ve [00:39:55] got to be prepared to to bring your staff with you on the journey. [00:40:00] You’ve got to keep them happy. You’ve got to listen to them as well. Because the my, [00:40:05] my nurse the other day I was busy, you know, treating a patient and she said, you know, she gets the fat [00:40:10] out and she says, well try this, you know. And I was busy talking and I noticed I hadn’t [00:40:15] actually thought about it. I was some new product I was going to use on the patient, and I tried it. And you [00:40:20] know what? The patient was delighted. It was a great improvement. And, you know, you’d be amazed at what your nurses and your and your [00:40:25] staff know. I mean, most of them are clever, clever people. You know, they’re switched on. [00:40:30] They want to help. They they want to be involved. They’re massively experienced. And, [00:40:35] you know, if you think you can remember everything and do everything well, I’m sorry to upset [00:40:40] you and burst that bubble. You can’t, you know, you need a decent team around you and you’ve got to treat them [00:40:45] with respect. You’ve got to look after them and you have to listen to what they say.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I remember my first proper [00:40:50] associate job after. And the boss was very clever, insomuch [00:40:55] as he said to shadow for a couple of weeks before starting the job, [00:41:00] the guy who was going to leave. I know that this guy was a brilliant dentist. I hope he’s a brilliant [00:41:05] dentist and another South African trained guy. And [00:41:10] in that two weeks, I honestly learned more than I did in the whole of it because this guy was just so brilliant. But [00:41:15] then the nurse, when I started working, the nurse started pointing things out [00:41:20] and saying, you should be doing more crowns. And I just hadn’t, you know, hadn’t figured [00:41:25] in my head like, you know, I was doing these heroic restorations, right. And, [00:41:30] you know, the simple cues from, from those two people were more valuable than the whole [00:41:35] of it for me.

Mark Becker: But but you can say that also about how many times have you gone on a days lecture, [00:41:40] and you sit there and you listen to the I am dentist telling you I did this and I did that. [00:41:45] Yeah. And they they sit preaching to you and I, you know, I remember [00:41:50] one course I don’t remember. I don’t even remember what the course was on. But I do remember at lunch time I sat [00:41:55] down with a couple of dentists, and the one dentist turned to us and said, gagging patients, [00:42:00] salt on the tip of your tongue. What? There you go. Get [00:42:05] a patient who gags when you put a film in their mouth. Yeah. Put a little salt on the tip [00:42:10] of their tongue, and that helps. You’ll be amazed. Nine out of ten times the gagging [00:42:15] stops, whether it’s distraction. But I’ve remembered that from that course. So whatever happened to you? I [00:42:20] don’t even remember what the course was on. I think it was in Holborn or something. I don’t remember what the course. Not a clue what the [00:42:25] course was on, I can’t remember. I remember sitting there having lunch and hearing that, and that’s been a huge, [00:42:30] you know, how often I turn to my nurses to get me some salt and it works nine out of [00:42:35] ten times.

Payman Langroudi: Hit me with another couple of mini tips like that. They were. They were good. Yeah, yeah. What [00:42:40] else.

Mark Becker: What else, what else, what else, what else?

Payman Langroudi: Little hacks that these.

Mark Becker: Things come off the top of your head.

Payman Langroudi: Little hacks as [00:42:45] you think of them. Tell me. I should do another section called things I hate about Dental courses, [00:42:50] because I’ll tell you my bugbear, where it’s normally it’s someone who’s [00:42:55] who’s like maybe a university guy lecturing. Yeah. And it’s a [00:43:00] title. And then four bullets and he’s literally reading. [00:43:05]

Mark Becker: Yeah. Because I can read as well as you, mate. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, dentistry, one of the most visual [00:43:10] things in the world. Yeah.

Mark Becker: Yeah. And they don’t show you pictures.

Payman Langroudi: It should be pictures, right? It should be only pictures. [00:43:15]

Mark Becker: Should be a picture of the tooth.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mark Becker: And I get that. Does my head.

Payman Langroudi: Teeth. And I think, I think there should [00:43:20] be a bit of technology. I’ve been talking about this for a while. There’s a bit of technology where everyone in the audience has a button. [00:43:25] And if more than 60% of the audience press.

Mark Becker: The button on next lecturer.

Payman Langroudi: Know the slide. [00:43:30] The slide forwards by itself. Yeah. Because how many times have you sat there and you’ve got the point? [00:43:35] Yeah. It’s just time to move it forward. Right? Yeah. It’s.

Mark Becker: Yeah. The old [00:43:40] slide. That’s good. They move on before you can take a photo of it in any case.

Payman Langroudi: There’s that one too. Tell me about [00:43:45] the West End. Reflections on that. Because you were there. For how long?

Mark Becker: About five years. For five years. [00:43:50] So it was, um.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a difficult thing. I mean, people dream of going to the [00:43:55] West End. Was that you? Why did you go there?

Mark Becker: I because I was young and naive and silly. And so [00:44:00] for a similar reason. Yes. You just you just think that’s the be all and end all of everything? Yeah. You [00:44:05] know, we were very, um, West End centric view of things, and.

Payman Langroudi: People don’t realise [00:44:10] the frustrations of it because it’s not a single walk in.

Mark Becker: You don’t get any walk ins. You have nothing. [00:44:15] But I mean, Harold, the warden’s the landlord round there who’s in their way or. No way. I mean, they make [00:44:20] Hammerson look like, you know, Brent Cross, like, look like nice. The nicest guys in the world. Um, [00:44:25] and, um, Hammerson were difficult to deal with. I mean, they actually charged me. Scheduled [00:44:30] a day when it closed down, even though they were gutting the building and renovating [00:44:35] the whole thing. And that was like a massive argument to say, well, you’ve moved. You’ve moved us out. [00:44:40] You still want to charge us for Central Dilapidations even though you’re gutting the building? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:44:45] know, there’s are some tactics that landlords use anyway.

Mark Becker: But, um, no. So the other thing is, I mean, [00:44:50] I always remember, I mean, you throw a brick out of a window in Wimpole Street and you hit a dentist. Yeah. I mean, [00:44:55] there’s just a dime a dozen there. And, you know, there’s definitely a place for West End dentistry. And I think, [00:45:00] you know, there are some fantastic dentists in the West End. But, you know, at the end of the day, [00:45:05] if they were practising in Shoreditch or they were practising in Swiss Cottage [00:45:10] or any other part of London, at the end of the day or the UK, their dentistry is going to be the same. You [00:45:15] know, there’s obviously a difference to the fee. They can control command in [00:45:20] different parts, but their dentistry is not going to change. They’re still the great dentists they were. It doesn’t really matter where they’re [00:45:25] working.

Payman Langroudi: So look the frustrations are no walk ins to many dentists. Howard de Walden. Yeah. What [00:45:30] are the benefits? There must be some benefits. Like you can charge more, right?

Mark Becker: You can charge more. [00:45:35] But, you know, I think it’s it’s a bit like buying a nice car. It’s a vanity [00:45:40] project many times. Yeah. You know, have that nice car. Makes any sense, you know? You know, you [00:45:45] can’t just do vanity projects your whole life. You know, it’s nice to have it. Your ego feels good going [00:45:50] into the West End today to work, you know. And I think a lot of the time it’s a vanity project. It’s [00:45:55] not necessarily, you know, a business, a so much of a valid [00:46:00] business model. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So you felt like you weren’t doing well then?

Mark Becker: Well, no, [00:46:05] we were doing okay. We were treading ground. We certainly weren’t setting the world alight, but we were doing okay. And then [00:46:10] Harold Warden wanted to, as I say, they wanted to, um, turn this particular building into residential. [00:46:15] So the alternatives just. I looked at my partner and [00:46:20] I looked at each other at the time and just said, you know what, let’s call it a day. It’s not worth it. [00:46:25] And we did, but we had our other practices to go to work. So it wasn’t the end of the world. [00:46:30]

Payman Langroudi: And you were telling me before that if you had to pinpoint some regrets, [00:46:35] that would be one of them going to. Yeah.

Mark Becker: Going to the West End was probably a regret, because I [00:46:40] turned down the opportunity of buying another practice near Islip, which I should have been [00:46:45] involved with, and I should have concentrated on what I knew and what I [00:46:50] enjoyed at the time, the opportunity. Yeah, I should have done that. And, you know, the dentistry, not [00:46:55] so much now because property prices are so high compared to the relative profitability of dentistry. [00:47:00] But if you, you know, in the 90s, you could still, you know, make enough profit [00:47:05] that you’d actually could pay your building off relatively quickly. And, um, you know, a lot of people [00:47:10] have done well in dentistry, have done well off the back of the properties as well. Yeah. You know, you sell your property at the end [00:47:15] and, you know, a surgeon who just sold in Hendon recently, not [00:47:20] far from where I am. And it’s not a dental surgery anymore. It’s, you know, the value of the property [00:47:25] as a dental surgery is nowhere near what it’s worth as a residential. Mhm. Um, and you know [00:47:30] why, why keep them in, you know where you’re going to sell it. Sell it to residential. Yeah. That’s a [00:47:35] good point. That’s the way it is. Whereas before it used to be very much the other way round. Yeah that’s right. You had a nice income from your dental surgery [00:47:40] but with that, that profit isn’t there of that much anymore.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get [00:47:45] to the darker part of the pod.

Mark Becker: Oh, it sounds evil.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Um, we [00:47:50] like to talk about mistakes. So based on. Have you read the black [00:47:55] box thinking that.

Mark Becker: You like.

Payman Langroudi: The black box thinking. [00:48:00]

Mark Becker: No.

Payman Langroudi: It’s about plane crashes. Plane crashes. [00:48:05] They go look into why?

Mark Becker: Okay. And they’ve got the black box. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Look at the black box. But [00:48:10] what they do is they share with the whole pilot community the findings. Okay. [00:48:15] And no one’s ever to blame. And it’s just the whole point of it is to learn from [00:48:20] each other.

Mark Becker: And make accidents less likely to.

Payman Langroudi: Happen, make accidents less likely to happen. But in in medical. And it actually [00:48:25] does. It segues into medical and it says in medical. Generally blame [00:48:30] is the first thing that people are looking at because blame is the first thing.

Mark Becker: Blame the lawyers for that. [00:48:35]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. But but you know, there’s plenty of lawyers in aviation too. It’s just I think it’s more like [00:48:40] a cultural issue, because blame is such a big thing. In medical. We tend to hide [00:48:45] our mistakes, run away from our mistakes, then we don’t all learn from each other’s [00:48:50] mistakes.

Mark Becker: And so there’s an embarrassment. There’s a embarrassment.

Payman Langroudi: Exactly.

Mark Becker: You know, you [00:48:55] know, anyone who I think I said this earlier on, anyone who says they they’ve never made a mistake as a dentist, [00:49:00] you know.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. We don’t accept that response.

Mark Becker: It’s nonsense.

Payman Langroudi: So to buck the trend, tell me, give me, give me [00:49:05] what comes to mind when I say clinical error.

Mark Becker: Clinical error? Yeah. [00:49:10] Probably the one that always brings to mind was an Invisalign case. And [00:49:15] I should have used elastics and I didn’t. And the occlusion just wasn’t right at the end. [00:49:20] And you know, I had to I had to hand hold my hand up to the patient and say, you know what? I [00:49:25] just haven’t got this one right. And I had to take my cap in hand to my local orthodontist [00:49:30] and say, Mr. Orthodontist, I need your help here, please. And he he was [00:49:35] very nice about it. He charged me to fix it, which he’s entitled to do. And I paid him myself out of your [00:49:40] own pocket and my own pocket. I paid it out of my own pockets, which was more than I got paid for the Invisalign case. But it’s a [00:49:45] learning case. Yeah. So, you know, I’ve been I was doing Invisalign from. I was in the first training group in the UK [00:49:50] at Heathrow Airport when it first came here. Wow. And, um, that’s one of my regrets. Be [00:49:55] a bit more careful what you take on. But as I’ve got older, generally.

Payman Langroudi: Did you know you didn’t like [00:50:00] you were going wrong or you had no idea? You didn’t know what? No, no, I.

Mark Becker: Didn’t get to the end of treatment and realise I [00:50:05] could see halfway through this was going wrong. You know, the occlusion, the teeth we had slip here, we had some [00:50:10] slippage here and it just wasn’t right.

Payman Langroudi: And you didn’t know what.

Mark Becker: To do with it? No. Just didn’t know how to do it. And my head’s [00:50:15] thinking, you know what? I’m not going to bs the patient. I just told the patient this isn’t going right. And I wanted to see an orthodontist. [00:50:20] And I said, you don’t have to put your hand in your pocket. I’ll deal with it. And it was done.

Payman Langroudi: How was the patient? [00:50:25]

Mark Becker: Patient was, I think, the patient the patient was fine about it. But I think part of that’s because I was [00:50:30] brutally honest saying it’s gone wrong in my hands. And and the very [00:50:35] words I said to her was, I’m going to put this right at my expense. You don’t have to worry about that. I’m not sending it to [00:50:40] making you pay the bill again. So I think that’s allowed it. And I think she was a reasonable [00:50:45] person as well. And, you know, that allowed us to deal with that situation. Um, but I [00:50:50] think honesty is, you know, where it has to start at the end of the day. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, that’s a good story, but I don’t like [00:50:55] it insomuch as it went very well. How about one that didn’t go very well, huh? [00:51:00]

Mark Becker: Is there any wood to touch [00:51:05] around here? You touch it.

Payman Langroudi: You’re touching it right now.

Mark Becker: No, I generally [00:51:10] I’ve been fortunate.

Payman Langroudi: Well, okay.

Mark Becker: Maybe so it doesn’t have.

Payman Langroudi: To be a mistake. It doesn’t have to be. Who is your most [00:51:15] difficult patient? What comes to mind when I say that.

Mark Becker: Is, I [00:51:20] just saw a member of their family today. So I’ve got a patient, highly educated. [00:51:25] Yeah. Highly educated. You know, sometimes a bit of education is a bit dangerous. [00:51:30] So, you know, and someone who likes to apportion blame. And [00:51:35] the one name you see in the diary, you think I want to take the day off? Thank you very much. I’d rather ditch the [00:51:40] whole day to see this client. What happened? What happened? And no, it’s more [00:51:45] a matter of, um, even after you’ve referred them because you don’t [00:51:50] want to touch them. The referral hasn’t gone right as well. And then it’s a bit. Well, you told [00:51:55] me to see them, and this hasn’t been right. And this hasn’t.

Payman Langroudi: And blaming that on.

Mark Becker: You as well. Yeah. Because you [00:52:00] get blamed for the referral as well. And you sit there thinking, hang on, I just tried to do the right thing here. Yeah. And [00:52:05] yeah I’ve that’s and she’s because it’s almost like trying [00:52:10] to as a dentist we’re not really to argue. Yeah. So if you’ve got someone who’s got legal training [00:52:15] and they’re like a barrister or that type of ilk, I find myself [00:52:20] very ill equipped to deal with with a client. It’s very easy to sit there afterwards and think, I [00:52:25] should have said A, B and C. Yeah, but actually, at the time, your brain’s thinking, that’s a fair [00:52:30] point. That’s a fair point. Actually it wasn’t. But, you know, your brain is sitting there because they’re so articulate. [00:52:35]

Payman Langroudi: When they when they do. Well, you know, having listened to that, I used [00:52:40] to work in a place where at least half my patients were lawyers, and they’re [00:52:45] pretty good patients. I mean, I’d say this is yeah, lawyers.

Mark Becker: Can be lawyers can be good patients. I mean, it [00:52:50] reminds me of a patient I had come to see me, and I looked at her mouth and I’m like, you know, there’s [00:52:55] a couple of problems here. And she said, well, this was only done recently. There was a and [00:53:00] I’m 2 or 3 visits into treating her, and she and I finally [00:53:05] get to the point of, what do you do? And she goes, I’m a lawyer. And I said, you know, not not [00:53:10] a medical lawyer. She goes, no, I am. I said, you’re joking. She says, no, seriously. I said, [00:53:15] well, I haven’t documented this for a minute. She says, do me a favour. I deal with it every day to do [00:53:20] it in my own life. Yeah, I’m not interested.

Payman Langroudi: That’s what I felt.

Mark Becker: And they just. They just wanted that. [00:53:25] The job’s a job. And then there’s their own lives as well. And they don’t want all the. They don’t want to bring work home [00:53:30] with them.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. What about from the business perspective? What was the darkest time? [00:53:35] Well, it’s.

Mark Becker: Interesting now having taken a big loan to open at Brent Cross, but that’s [00:53:40] an interesting time. I wouldn’t say it’s dark, but you’re doing well now, I think. No, it’s going very well. I [00:53:45] think the biggest one was leaving the NHS. That was the darkest time. That was the most stressful time, [00:53:50] you know.

Payman Langroudi: But I thought it went quite well.

Mark Becker: The move. But no, the worry, the [00:53:55] worry went well. But that, that was the stress was the. Have I made the right decision? Are [00:54:00] my patients going to stay with me? You know, are enough patients going to stay with me? Will my patients understand? [00:54:05] Because in the 90s, when I left the NHS with the inverted commas new contract, [00:54:10] I, you know, no one, not many people had done that. You know, there were private practices, [00:54:15] but not many practices that had gone, you know, left the NHS and gone private. You’d open up as a private [00:54:20] practice. The conversion conversion wasn’t a wasn’t a big thing then. Well if it was I wasn’t aware [00:54:25] of that. So if you say to me what was my most stressful RESTful period. Almost [00:54:30] certainly that you know that having the faith that my patients like [00:54:35] me and respected me enough to understand that I had to make a move and they would follow me. And that, [00:54:40] you know, a couple of months that was that was yeah, I think there was a darkest time and a worrying [00:54:45] time. That was it being brave to make the decision. And I don’t get me wrong, I never looked back afterwards. [00:54:50]

Payman Langroudi: Did you send a letter to everyone explaining the reasons why, or did [00:54:55] you talk to them every time they came in? That’s a great.

Mark Becker: Question because I honestly [00:55:00] don’t remember. I must have written to them, but I certainly spent more time explaining it to patients. And it wasn’t [00:55:05] a quick job. It wasn’t. We just left overnight. It was, you know, no, we did do a [00:55:10] letter 100% because.

Payman Langroudi: I was I was in a practice when they did a conversion. And I think their advice [00:55:15] was that they there was a letter, but also there was an extra step [00:55:20] before seeing the dentist as they saw the dentist. They also went through this [00:55:25] dental plan person and yeah. And the dentist explained to every patient and then moved [00:55:30] them over. And I think it was a tiny minority who didn’t stay on. I mean, maybe [00:55:35] 15% didn’t stay on. I mean, you.

Mark Becker: Have to take that. Remember, you’re going to be booking your patients in for [00:55:40] longer. You probably truthfully want more than 15% to leave you. I mean, you probably don’t, but, you [00:55:45] know, from a from a logistics running the surgery at the end of the day. I mean, I’ve gone to a [00:55:50] well, that book was originally a five minute appointment book. I don’t do a check up in less than [00:55:55] half an hour now. Yeah. And the scary thing is, if I’ve got to squeeze a patient into a 20 minute check-up, [00:56:00] I struggle. You know, you tell other dentists you struggle to do it. They look at you like you’re mad, you [00:56:05] know? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Because there’s going to be a bunch of people listening to this who do five minute check-up. Yeah.

Mark Becker: So. [00:56:10] And my hat’s off to you because I don’t know how you can do it day in and day out.

Payman Langroudi: Because is it that you’re [00:56:15] looking at the occlusion and comprehensive? I mean, what are you doing in the extra 15 minutes to 25?

Mark Becker: A lot [00:56:20] of that is look, I’m sure everyone does a thorough check-up, and I’m sure [00:56:25] my check-ups are probably no know better than everybody out there. Okay. But the difference I have, and truthfully, [00:56:30] what I use my time for a lot is getting to know my patients. Yeah, get to know my patients. [00:56:35] How are their kids? What are they doing? Where was the holiday? You know, how’s the family doing? Everything okay? [00:56:40] You know I do care about them. Yeah. And they’ll ask me about my family, and I’m open about that. [00:56:45] And most of my patients, I would almost turn friends.

Payman Langroudi: By [00:56:50] the way, having stopped practising whenever it was 12 years ago. The bit I missed [00:56:55] the most are those conversations. I mean, I know you’re a technology guy, you’re a good dentist. [00:57:00] You’re, you know, you probably love sticking things in. And personally, it’s only you [00:57:05] only realise once you stop the bit you really miss. The bit I really miss are those conversations because [00:57:10] interesting people, number one. Yeah. The people are doing different lives. So many people [00:57:15] who you’ve been following every six months for, for a long time, you know their lives. You [00:57:20] never know what.

Mark Becker: Your patients are. I had a patient in not long ago. He was actually on [00:57:25] the committee for the Nobel Prize. Wow. You know, not not a young gentleman, but [00:57:30] fully compos mentis. Smart, I mean, intelligent. I mean, conversation with him was [00:57:35] just fantastic. I mean, he was just. Still is. I mean, he’s alive still, [00:57:40] but but, you know, you just don’t know who you’re talking to at the end of the day. And some of our patients are just [00:57:45] special people. I mean, they really are.

Payman Langroudi: So then in that period, [00:57:50] you’re talking you’re they’re your friends anyway. You want to catch up with them. [00:57:55] Right. But give me some. Give me some sort of nuggets around. Okay. [00:58:00] What is it when they’re talking. Is it just listening to exactly what they’re saying [00:58:05] to then what informs your treatment plan and and what going forward? [00:58:10]

Mark Becker: So for treatment planning is I remember and I tell this story to patients [00:58:15] quite often. I remember going to a lecture in Mount Vernon many years ago, [00:58:20] and they put up a slide of an 80 year old gentleman and OPG and [00:58:25] I don’t know, there might be people in the room who are listening to this who were there as well. And the room [00:58:30] literally broke down into a it was almost a physical argument. I mean, it got rather nasty [00:58:35] between dentists saying, well, this guy’s 80 years old. Leave him alone. [00:58:40] You know, he doesn’t need the aggravation. You know, what does he need this for? To the other room saying, well, he [00:58:45] might live 20 years. And, you know, dentistry is going to get harder for him physically and financially. [00:58:50] And you’re best off treating him now. And they couldn’t see each other’s point. And I do [00:58:55] use that one as a life lesson because I tend to patients. And I say, look, they were both wrong, [00:59:00] both groups, because the truth is they should turn around to the 80 year old gentleman and say, look, what do you want? [00:59:05] This is the situation. What do you want? And I use the [00:59:10] analogy I use for I use for my patients.

Mark Becker: And if my patients here, they’ll be [00:59:15] laughing and saying, yeah, Mark said that to me. It’s a bit like having teeth is about like living in a house. [00:59:20] You know, you’ve got some patients, you know, some people in their house, they live there 30 years and every [00:59:25] room is immaculate. And every six months they’ve got their decorator in. And the house after 30 years is [00:59:30] beautiful and fantastic. Yeah. The drawback of that, obviously, is you’re always having decorators and you’re always having [00:59:35] work done. You’ve got other people live in a house for 30 years, and the carpet’s frayed and the windows cracked. There’s a damp patch in [00:59:40] the ceiling, and until someone trips on the carpet or the damp patch becomes a flood, they don’t even see [00:59:45] it. And one’s not wrong and one’s not right. It’s knowing which one you are and owning the responsibilities [00:59:50] of the decision you’ve made. So if you’re the latter and someone trips on the carpet [00:59:55] and hurts themselves, well, you’ve got to own that at the end of day. Or if your blood breaks, you’ve got to accept as an emergency. [01:00:00] And it’s the same thing with teeth at the end of the day.

Payman Langroudi: Lovely way of putting it, actually.

Mark Becker: You know, it’s like the teeth. They’re your [01:00:05] teeth. I mean, where the analogy falls down is obviously you can’t sell the teeth and give them to someone else and move somewhere else. But, you know, I [01:00:10] suppose that’s the full case implant job. But, um, at the end of the day, you know, I [01:00:15] think you’ve got to say, to treat your patients like an intelligent person that most of them are and say, look, take your [01:00:20] photographs. Say, look, I can leave this. Yeah. And it may not bother you for [01:00:25] ten years, but if you buy it and nut on it tomorrow and it breaks, we’re going to have trouble because we didn’t [01:00:30] crown it. And I don’t mind leaving it. But you need to understand that that’s a [01:00:35] choice we’re making. And I’m going to be guided by you. The old days of the dentist sitting there and [01:00:40] saying, you have to have X, Y, and Z are over. You have to you know, I hate the phrase co-discoverer, [01:00:45] but that’s the truth. At the end of the day, you have to explain to patients, show them and say, you know, own. [01:00:50] Own what you want. If you want to leave things alone and wait for emergency dentistry, that’s fine, [01:00:55] but own the responsibility of that. If you’re going on holiday or something breaks, don’t be upset [01:01:00] about it. That was your choice. Yeah. And alternatively, if you want to, you know, gradually [01:01:05] rehabilitate your mouth and fix everything, you know, own the fact that, yes, it’s going to cost you some time. It’s going to cost [01:01:10] you some money. You’re going to have to invest in yourself, but own that, you know, you they [01:01:15] have to take the responsibility on themselves and treat them like the intelligent people that most of them are, but document [01:01:20] everything.

Payman Langroudi: I guess that’s what takes time, right? Yeah.

Mark Becker: That’s right. That’s [01:01:25] half an hour.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. Having that conversation properly answering the odd question, the amount [01:01:30] of trust that builds important, but also just.

Mark Becker: Giving your WhatsApp number and say look. [01:01:35] And I use this on patients often, I’ll say, and this is the advantage of [01:01:40] being private obviously. But I’ll say to patients, look, don’t make a decision. Now, [01:01:45] I’m going to make another appointment for you to come back and chat to me and do me a favour. Bring a member of your family or [01:01:50] write down some questions, because you’ll walk in and you’ll forget. And if you want to email me the questions in advance, email [01:01:55] me the questions in advance, or bring someone with you so that you can chat and you can hear, especially [01:02:00] husbands and wives and parents and kids, you know, so that you can have a three way [01:02:05] conversation and make sure you thrash out everything before you start. Because if [01:02:10] you get something wrong. Yeah. And it’s been explained the risks beforehand. [01:02:15] Most patients are. Yeah, I get that. But if you don’t explain it to them, it goes wrong. [01:02:20] Suddenly the very same reason is now an excuse and then you’ve got problems.

Payman Langroudi: How [01:02:25] do you feel about the defensive nature of sad? Yeah. Me [01:02:30] too. I feel like the lawyers have won in a way.

Mark Becker: Oh, they they’ve they’ve won completely. [01:02:35] I mean, you just don’t even bother fighting doing the fight anymore because you’re not going to win. I mean, one of the. I just remember [01:02:40] many years ago, one of my associates in writing that he did a crown on a patient. He wasn’t 100% [01:02:45] happy with it. He put it on with temp bond. He said to the patient, come back next week. I’d like to review it. See what’s happening. [01:02:50] £89 on the NHS. I think it was at the time, and the patient comes [01:02:55] back three years later and his associates of course, left. The crowns come off and the patient’s not happy. [01:03:00] Never came back for the review of his bond. Yeah. Yeah. He lasted three. It was three years as well. [01:03:05] So I’m thinking what was the problem? And the patient’s now lost the crown, got all upset about it. [01:03:10] And I spoke to the Defence Union because another associate was dealing with it. And they said, oh, we’ll just give them the money back. [01:03:15] God. Yeah. It’s cheap for them to pay them the £89 back. Yeah. Than to say, [01:03:20] look, actually, you’ve got to own some responsibility. You didn’t come back. The dentist clearly documented. And you [01:03:25] can see where the appointment had been cancelled in the computer. You know, the patient never came back. So the patient gets [01:03:30] their £89 back and, you know, thinks that they were right at the end of the day. [01:03:35] And that type of thing is really sits. It’s sad. That’s the only word [01:03:40] for it. But it’s not just dentistry. You talk to any healthcare professional or any any [01:03:45] any professionals. They’ve all got the same issues. I mean, you can take this further, you can take this and look at [01:03:50] so I look at things like, um, uh, when [01:03:55] we were, when we were young dentists, you know, NHS patients used to be you’d get, they’d get letters [01:04:00] to go to inspection. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, some would at least look at your dentistry. Yeah. [01:04:05] What’s that? Yeah. It was.

Payman Langroudi: Dire.

Mark Becker: Yeah. The audio. Audio.

Payman Langroudi: Audio.

Mark Becker: The regional [01:04:10] dental officer. Yeah. And you’d send your patient. You’d hope you get some good reports that most of us didn’t have any problems [01:04:15] at the end of the day, provided you treat your patients well, your dentistry was, you know, of a decent standard. You were [01:04:20] okay. Yeah. And today, what really upsets me, I think, most about dentistry is [01:04:25] this this issue of, you know, all the paperwork you have to do to keep compliance [01:04:30] happy at the end of the day. Because and I say to my patients often, you know, you could be a great [01:04:35] dentist, but if you haven’t got all your paperwork in place, you’re in trouble, you’re going to get [01:04:40] struck off. And you could be the worst dentist in the world. But if all your paperwork is in place, everything’s [01:04:45] okay. Yeah. And that really sticks in my throat. And I think it’s a bad thing for the profession. [01:04:50] I think it’s a bad thing for patients. And I think we need to try and find [01:04:55] a way out of that. And I just don’t know how you do it, though. I mean, there’s people a lot brighter than me out [01:05:00] there who must be thinking how to solve the situation, because at the end of the day, you know, not [01:05:05] dotting your I’s and crossing your t’s can’t be the only way forward in dentistry. You know, it [01:05:10] has to be about the quality of care provided to your patient, not whether you’ve got, you know, paperwork [01:05:15] ticked off and boxes.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s it’s going to only get worse.

Mark Becker: And it’s not just [01:05:20] dentistry. It’s everything. Yeah. You talk to your patients who are accountants or lawyers and they’ve got [01:05:25] the same thing. They say exactly the same thing. It’s, you know, it’s pervasive in society.

Payman Langroudi: You’ve [01:05:30] hired and I guess fired a load of dentists [01:05:35] in your time.

Mark Becker: I haven’t actually.

Payman Langroudi: Hired.

Mark Becker: I’ve hired? [01:05:40] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What do you look for in an associate? Can you. And [01:05:45] are you good at spotting a good associate in the limited? I don’t interview [01:05:50] situation.

Mark Becker: The only way you can judge an associate. Because they’ll turn up with a book of. I’ve [01:05:55] done all these cases at the end of the day. They’re not going to show you the bad cases, obviously. Um, I [01:06:00] think you the only thing you can do is really hear how they talk. Listen. Listen in and hear how they talk [01:06:05] to the patients. Yeah. You know, by then, obviously, you’ve made your decision. They’re already in the door. Yeah. But, you know, and [01:06:10] you have to be there and be a sounding board for them at the end of the day. And you know.

Payman Langroudi: But you don’t [01:06:15] I mean, you have no idea, right? You’ve put an ad out, the guy sitting in front of you who’s showing you pretty.

Mark Becker: Pictures has no idea. You’ve [01:06:20] got. No, you could have, you know, he had all the awards at dental school. Yeah. But, you know, he sits down and can’t talk [01:06:25] to the patients at the end.

Payman Langroudi: So the way he’s talking to you in the interview, that itself is a key thing, right? [01:06:30]

Mark Becker: Absolutely. The presentation and whether they come over, can they talk? Can they can [01:06:35] they, um, keep your your eye contact [01:06:40] with you? Yeah. You know, do they listen do they, um, do [01:06:45] they understand what’s happening with the situation and how, you know, how they treat [01:06:50] their patients? You can give them ideas. Say, what would you do if. Yeah. Yeah. But the truth is, I mean, [01:06:55] most of us know the answer to those. And it’s a tick box answer as opposed to.

Payman Langroudi: Especially young ones. [01:07:00] Now, they they they know their timing is brilliant and they know these answers doesn’t mean they’re [01:07:05] going to execute you.

Mark Becker: It doesn’t mean they’re going to execute it at tool. And I [01:07:10] think at the end of the day, they are so much more tech savvy than we ever were, and they’re [01:07:15] much more aware of what’s going on.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and there’s so much more resource out there for them [01:07:20] to draw on, like social media and all that. So is it harder now? Is my question. Is [01:07:25] it harder now to distinguish the good from the bad, or has it always been the same problem? Well, what’s. [01:07:30]

Mark Becker: A good association? What’s a bad associate?

Payman Langroudi: Well, someone who keeps their patients happy keeps the team happy. Yeah. You got to keep. Keeps [01:07:35] you happy. Let’s face.

Mark Becker: It. Yeah. And they’ve got to pay their way at the end of the day unfortunately as well. And that’s, of [01:07:40] course, a very, very difficult pyramid to.

Payman Langroudi: I mean you said you don’t enjoy that. You don’t enjoy [01:07:45] the business side. Does that mean you’re not really focussed on the numbers and things or [01:07:50] you are. You have to.

Mark Becker: Focus on the numbers at some point.

Payman Langroudi: So do you know you know, like each room has to make this much per [01:07:55] hour to. Yes. And you’re paying attention to you know, that room is losing me money right now.

Mark Becker: I’m the type [01:08:00] of at the moment got to the point where I’m concentrating on quality of care for [01:08:05] the patients and keeping new patients happy. The money will follow later. I’m not sitting there in [01:08:10] nickel and diming and watching every single penny. You can’t. You’ll drive yourself mad. Yeah. Um, I [01:08:15] remember, uh, I think it was probably my father who said this. At the end of the day, [01:08:20] uh, he said something along the lines of, you know, don’t worry about the money. [01:08:25] You know, you just got to set your fees fairly and treat the patients fairly. [01:08:30] And if you balance those two correctly, the rest you’ll make a living. The rest will follow. You can’t sit there. [01:08:35] And you know, this only took X this day. And it wasn’t enough. It didn’t even pay my notes. You’ll [01:08:40] drive yourself to distraction. I mean, you can’t live like that.

Payman Langroudi: But I think there are plenty of practices out there where associates [01:08:45] are losing the money, but they’re not aware of it because they haven’t got a good understanding [01:08:50] of the numbers.

Mark Becker: They. Yeah, I mean associates.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:08:55] by the way, associates who are not aware of it themselves.

Mark Becker: Yeah. Well, the associates don’t really know what what it, how [01:09:00] it, how much it costs to run a surgery at the end of the day. And, and neither do the patients, obviously. Um, [01:09:05] the, uh, I [01:09:10] think the associates for me, there are a couple of big advantages of them. I mean, I [01:09:15] worked a single handed for like 15 years. So when I wanted the ones to go on a holiday, [01:09:20] it was like the phone comes with me and I answer every call. And yes, there were some very handy dentists to answer [01:09:25] it, but I never actually got away and didn’t take my phone with me and answer calls and answer [01:09:30] emails. And my wife would rightly look at me sometimes and say, well, get away from work. Come on, you’ve got to have a break. [01:09:35] And so having associates is a it may not necessarily make you money, [01:09:40] but it can buy you some sanity at the end of the day. Because I just went on a holiday recently and [01:09:45] it’s the first time I, you know, totally switched off. I switched off, I mean, my patients could still get me by email, [01:09:50] but I could turn around and say, listen, there’s a dentist there and they can deal with this for you. [01:09:55]

Mark Becker: And you know, that that I hadn’t done in years. And that was really nice. It’s also [01:10:00] nice having some other dentists around you, you know, just to bat ideas of because they’re so lonely, [01:10:05] very lonely. It can be a really lonely job. So having ideas bounce off of them. And, you know, the [01:10:10] latest bonding agents, which I, you know, I’ve been using the same bonding agent for, you know, 7 or 8 years [01:10:15] and it works for me. But why? Why change? But the associate turned around and said, well, this is the new one. And it’s, you know, new materials [01:10:20] and I’ve got materials. And, you know, they were they move on, you know, which [01:10:25] one do you um, for me composite wise, helium or HP I’ve loved [01:10:30] for years. Oh, really? Yeah. It’s just a heavy body. You can pack it nicely. It works. Well, it’s a [01:10:35] little bit expensive, but, um. And bonding, I see. Um. Opti bond solo. [01:10:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: An anterior composite. Um, [01:10:45] do you get involved with composite bonding like I do?

Mark Becker: I do a fair bit of composite bonding, but [01:10:50] I started that’s. It is an it’s an interesting story to me and probably no one else. [01:10:55] I remember when I took over the practice in Ruislip, the one of the partners [01:11:00] who stayed behind Hind comes up the stairs and he knocks on my door. He says, could you just come and have a look at this patient? [01:11:05] I’ve been treating him for a while and I’ve been watching him, and he’d basically been watching him grind [01:11:10] his teeth up to nothing. So I go downstairs and I’m [01:11:15] aghast. I don’t know what I’m going to do. He’s got nothing left. And I think it was Mount Vernon [01:11:20] I referred him to. But anyway, I got a letter back from the professor wherever it was, and described [01:11:25] this Dahl technique build up. And I thought the guy was absolutely pots. I mean, it was a silly [01:11:30] idea. Composite building up teeth is never going to work. Smash it to pieces. And he explained he opened up [01:11:35] the bite, and then he give it some time, and you crown the teeth and you’ve got you’ve opened up space for yourself. And, [01:11:40] um, I remember doing the first case and [01:11:45] it worked. This is 25 years ago, and I’ve been doing [01:11:50] Dahl and what a lot of people now call bonding since for 25 [01:11:55] years. And I can put my hand on my heart and tell you [01:12:00] that I’ve never once crowned one of these teeth. It’s just not necessary. [01:12:05] And you say to the patients. Look, I can crown them for you. We’ve opened up the space down there. I’m happy where I am. I’m [01:12:10] happy. It’s a.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant modality.

Mark Becker: It’s fantastic.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, only very UK centric. [01:12:15] I didn’t know that. It’s not. It’s not used much in the US. People don’t know about it. It is.

Mark Becker: I find it. Absolutely. [01:12:20] The amount of patients and it’s an immediate result. I don’t even have to numb them up to do it. [01:12:25] You know, there’s no anaesthetic.

Payman Langroudi: No. I mean, I’m talking about.

Mark Becker: I’m. I’m saying. But it’s a nice a nice [01:12:30] patient. I don’t need to numb them up to do it.

Payman Langroudi: Oh of course. Yeah.

Mark Becker: I mean, I must [01:12:35] be honest, I tend to do most of it freehand still, because I’ve been doing it for so long. But the matrices work really nicely [01:12:40] as well. Yeah, but.

Payman Langroudi: I’d say if, you know, if if you can’t do it freehand then [01:12:45] yeah.

Mark Becker: They are great.

Payman Langroudi: I’m a bit concerned about that. But you know there’s, [01:12:50] there’s these injection moulding ways of.

Mark Becker: Yeah. Yeah I’ve seen them. I went on the course they just I. [01:12:55]

Payman Langroudi: Think there are, there are situations where it makes sense. But But you need to know the freehand. [01:13:00] You need to understand the.

Mark Becker: The freehand to me is just it’s just such a lovely technique to do. And this [01:13:05] is where enlightened comes in for me because I.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s go into that. Why? What is it you do differently to the [01:13:10] next man that makes you do so much enlightened?

Mark Becker: Um, I honestly don’t know. But [01:13:15] what I do know is that I just give my patients their choices. So for me, if I’m doing a bond, if I’m [01:13:20] doing a build up and there are a lot of patients out there grinding their teeth pieces, [01:13:25] um, the first conversation I have is, look, if you want to whiten your teeth, you really need to [01:13:30] do it now before I do the style on you, because afterwards I’m not going to be sitting there playing around [01:13:35] and trying to match the colours up. So.

Payman Langroudi: So do you do a lot of those and hence you do a lot of enlightened. [01:13:40]

Mark Becker: And typically you guys are always very fair because you make me another whitening tray after I finish the case. [01:13:45] And the fee is very reasonable for that at the end of the day. So I do appreciate that. So just the.

Payman Langroudi: Volume of [01:13:50] work is that are you not mentioning whitening to patients who need nothing?

Mark Becker: Oh no, we meant no. Absolutely. Mention the patients. [01:13:55] You know you have to handle how you how you mention it to them. And I’ve got an enlightened [01:14:00] little display thing in front and I’ve always got my photographs. I take loads of photographs and [01:14:05] look, the truth for me, for enlighten, [01:14:10] is that it’s the first time I found a dental product that’s predictably whitening my patient’s teeth. [01:14:15] That’s what it comes down to, provided you can get the patient to commit. And they have to understand they need [01:14:20] to commit to the regime that they need to do, you know, it works. It says what it [01:14:25] says.

Payman Langroudi: But how do I unlock that dentist who just isn’t doing much? You [01:14:30] I you know, that’s my you know, that keeps me up at night, which is why I’ve got you here, right? [01:14:35] I mean, look, I.

Mark Becker: The I think the dentist, [01:14:40] it’s just about giving your patients choice at the end of the day. And you have to be, have to have [01:14:45] a frank conversation with them. Because the other thing is that if you don’t go and do that technique on [01:14:50] them and they want it and they’re too embarrassed to bring it up, they’ll go to their friend’s dentist. Who [01:14:55] did it, you know, and you’ll lose that patient to another surgery. So at the end of the day, you [01:15:00] have to provide that. At least offer it. I mean, whether they want it or not, that’s a different [01:15:05] question. You’re not going to convince anyone, and nor should you try and convince anyone to have something done they don’t want to do. Yeah, [01:15:10] but at the end of the day, these people have a right to know what their options are and for [01:15:15] what, three weeks of treatment, you know, an occasional top ups. You’ve got a patient who’s going to have lovely [01:15:20] white teeth and can make a big difference to their lives very easily. You know, I had a patient [01:15:25] in yesterday literally beaming a smile when she came in and it was so nice to see. [01:15:30] And she a lovely lady and she was just happy. She was genuinely happy. She [01:15:35] didn’t think she’d get the result. And she did. And it’s nice to see. And you ask those [01:15:40] patients to give you a Google review or something and they are really happy to. [01:15:45] And the truth is, as a dentist, we haven’t really done that much. The chemicals have done it for [01:15:50] us. You know, we we’ve told them how we’ve told them the secret of doing it, [01:15:55] and we’ve given them stuff and we’ve taken a scan or an impression. But that’s all you’ve really done, [01:16:00] and you’ve made sure you talk your patient through it and send them, you know, I send them. I don’t know whether you’ve actually [01:16:05] got I meant to ask you if you’ve got a YouTube video for how to load trays up. Yeah. Yeah. I need [01:16:10] to get that one from you.

Payman Langroudi: Also, new desensitiser coming out. Yeah. The pen format. Okay. In [01:16:15] two weeks time. Okay, cool. You’ll enjoy.

Mark Becker: That. Cool. I must be honest. I thought we get some sensitivity in. The expression [01:16:20] I use to patients is you can’t make omelettes without cracking eggs at the end of the day, so expect some sensitivity. [01:16:25] You’ve got to handle that expectation that you may well get some sensitivity, [01:16:30] but it’s going to be short term, and it’s not going to be not going to damage your teeth. And [01:16:35] you know, if there was a problem with whitening, it would have been sued out of existence by now, especially in the United States, [01:16:40] obviously. So for me, enlighten I do class [01:16:45] as a premium product compared to my normal one. If I don’t think I’ve done any of my traditional whitening. [01:16:50] I used to do a lot of zooms. I used to do a lot of bright smiles and, you [01:16:55] know, much more sensitivity. And how are you going to top it up? How are you going to keep them white at the end of the day? Yeah. [01:17:00] You know, the beautiful thing about enlightened is you just sell them a top up gel and they keep it white [01:17:05] afterwards and it’s done and they’ll send their friends to you. And if you don’t do it, someone will.

Payman Langroudi: You make it sound so [01:17:10] effortless yet? And yet we get people who think they’re going to embarrass [01:17:15] the patient by bringing up teeth whitening, and you get people who [01:17:20] don’t want to look like they’re a pushy salesman, so they don’t bring it up. I think, you know, it comes down to, you know, the need [01:17:25] question and the want question. You know, what’s desired profession stuck in need.

Mark Becker: Yeah. But it’s [01:17:30] but it’s it’s I think you have to look, there’s no patient I would ever discuss enlightenment with as my first [01:17:35] thing, you know, and I break it down to patients. There is dentistry [01:17:40] you need. You’ve got caries, you’ve got an abscess. You need treatments. You know, that’s [01:17:45] need. You require that treatment. Then there’s the desire driven dentistry, [01:17:50] you know. And, um, in fact, before there’s, there’s a, there’s dentistry [01:17:55] that’s advisable preparing a crab, putting a crown on a phase.

Payman Langroudi: One, phase two, phase three.

Mark Becker: So, [01:18:00] you know, the stuff that you should do, which isn’t needed right now, but it’s going to help your [01:18:05] general health. You know, maybe some crowns, or it may be changing some fillings or something, but, you know, you [01:18:10] can’t say it’s urgent to the patient, but it’s something they should think about. So it’s like think, you know, need to think [01:18:15] about dentistry. And then there’s desire driven dentistry. And the desire driven [01:18:20] dentistry is, you know, often what patients want at the end of the day. But I think you do need to explain to them [01:18:25] that, you know, you need to you need to get these things done in the right order at the end of the day. And, um, [01:18:30] most patients react quite well to that, especially if you’ve got your photographs back to photos, [01:18:35] have your photographs explain the reasons. Have some pictures of some patients you’ve done with enlighten. [01:18:40] I mean, I’ve got a lovely big screen in front of my chair, 60 inch [01:18:45] TV screen I’ve got in front of my chair, and I’ll put up a picture of a before and afterwards, because your. [01:18:50]

Payman Langroudi: Intraoral camera will also come up on that.

Mark Becker: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, I think I think, you know, now I’m thinking [01:18:55] back here, I remember if my intraoral camera, the light was gone on it. Oh it [01:19:00] would ruin my day is ruined. Ruin my day.

Mark Becker: Oh, 100%. I’d rather shut the surgery. Can’t stand it. [01:19:05] In fact, I’ve even been known to try and use my iPhone. Get a mirror Dental mirror. Oh, and at the same [01:19:10] time, because my camera wasn’t working so I could get the picture, it doesn’t work that well. The lighting [01:19:15] is very difficult to do. I mean.

Payman Langroudi: To be honest, that top tip here because you just remind, like I’d forgotten [01:19:20] all about it. And now I remember thinking at the time, you know, the before picture, the during picture, the caries, [01:19:25] the cleaned up tooth and then the after picture, those four pictures. Although sometimes [01:19:30] I do remember wanting that during picture to be so nice that I’d be removing [01:19:35] too much of the affected dentine exposing sometimes [01:19:40] exposed ones just trying to make it look pretty.

Mark Becker: Pretty. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Okay, so so stop taking that picture before [01:19:45] caries.

Mark Becker: Nice little blood spot.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, that did happen to me. Yeah, the red.

Mark Becker: Stuff’s not great. [01:19:50]

Payman Langroudi: But. But those four pictures, I remember thinking back in the day, I [01:19:55] remember thinking they’ve added 30% to the price of the treatment. As in the satisfaction. [01:20:00]

Mark Becker: Of the price. The value, the value.

Payman Langroudi: There you go. The value.

Mark Becker: I think, is the value. It’s not price, it’s value.

Payman Langroudi: I used to give a surprise [01:20:05] and delight free electric toothbrush at the end of some ridiculous treat, like some some [01:20:10] ten veneer treatment or something. I’d give a electric toothbrush and the [01:20:15] the joy that it just came from nowhere, but that these little things are so important.

Mark Becker: You [01:20:20] remind me of when I left the NHS now because we were talking about earlier, and I’d forgotten about this. [01:20:25] When you did NHS treatment, you do, you know you do. You used to be able to do quite [01:20:30] large cases on the NHS and the patients paid 200 or £600, whatever it was.

Payman Langroudi: What was that thing you.

Mark Becker: Said of the [01:20:35] treatment.

Payman Langroudi: Approval.

Mark Becker: Or the prior approval? Prior approval?

Payman Langroudi: Yes, sir.

Mark Becker: And the patients would very [01:20:40] rarely say thank you afterwards. And what I do remember is when I went to private, [01:20:45] Privates you charge that appreciate your time. You’d enjoy the quality of the work you’re doing, [01:20:50] and it’s amazing. The patients said thank you afterwards.

Payman Langroudi: Because because you had the time to build the relationship, [01:20:55] the value in NHS, there was no time to build the relationship.

Mark Becker: And I do remember not [01:21:00] only wasn’t earning necessarily more because I was seeing a lot less patients, [01:21:05] but I was enjoying what I was doing more and I could build a better relationship with my patients. [01:21:10] But it was the appreciation you felt from the patients.

Payman Langroudi: You know, they talk about [01:21:15] the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, why do people come to work? And [01:21:20] there’s the money and then there’s the social side. As a dentist, I remember thinking a [01:21:25] really heartfelt thank you was the thing that would make the job worthwhile. [01:21:30] Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it’s a strange thing because on paper it doesn’t really [01:21:35] make that much sense. You know why? But but but it does make sense. Insomuch as we’ve all [01:21:40] got. You’re going out of your way for that patient without him really knowing that you’re going out of your way, you’ve got that little ego. [01:21:45]

Mark Becker: And also you’re competing with that that patients previous dentists as well. And [01:21:50] you know it’s like ego there. Yeah. We’ve all we’ve all got an ego. It’s like uh it’s [01:21:55] nice to be appreciated.

Payman Langroudi: Before I get to the final, final questions I do want [01:22:00] your input on, we have another podcast which is mental health based. Mhm. [01:22:05] Why do dentists end their own lives more than other [01:22:10] professionals and divorce.

Mark Becker: More.

Payman Langroudi: And divorce more? Yeah. Why why why dentists. [01:22:15]

Mark Becker: I think the answer to that is the nature of the job. Because at the end of the day, you’re [01:22:20] performing non-stop. There’s no if you’re a lawyer, you sit down, you don’t answer the phone, [01:22:25] you take a break. You can manage your time differently. You’re not expected [01:22:30] to have an immediate answer if you’re an accountant. Same thing. And same thing with GPS. [01:22:35] They’re sitting behind a desk. They’re giving advice. They’re not. We’re operating constantly. [01:22:40] Yeah. You know, you’re you’re invasively treating someone on a live patient. A live patient, [01:22:45] not sedated. They’re not asleep. And it’s one patient after the next. And [01:22:50] it’s constantly running to time, providing the quality of care. And it’s the nature of the beast of what we do [01:22:55] at the end of the day. And I think the stress from that over the years builds up. And [01:23:00] I really think that and and how you get around that really difficult. [01:23:05] But certainly seeing less patients a day is one way forward. And guess what? You have [01:23:10] to go private to do that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s been a massive [01:23:15] pleasure. I’ve learned so much. Um, we’re going to end we’re going to end with the same questions that we [01:23:20] always end with. I don’t know if you’ve had time. You could have.

Mark Becker: Emailed them a couple of days.

Payman Langroudi: I thought they did.

Mark Becker: I [01:23:25] thought they.

Payman Langroudi: Didn’t. You know, people come on to this show from different angles. So you [01:23:30] came in from a you do a lot of enlightened angles. Okay.

Mark Becker: Fair enough.

Payman Langroudi: But whatever [01:23:35] comes to mind, whatever comes to mind. Fantasy dinner party three. Three [01:23:40] guests, dead or alive. I think it would.

Mark Becker: Have to be in both of them. Oh, yeah. I mean, I just [01:23:45] remember he’s alive, right? He’s alive? Yeah. I just. I just remember that those test [01:23:50] matches against Australia, where he single handedly saved England. And to me, as a kid, that was everything. [01:23:55] That was fantastic. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Did you do you play cricket [01:24:00] now?

Mark Becker: I know, I know now. No I don’t. I did as a kid, but no, I mean, I enjoy [01:24:05] watching it still. Um, but no, definitely. Um, I think, [01:24:10] um, probably Peter Lorimer. I was [01:24:15] an old Leeds fan. He’s a footballer. Yeah, he was a footballer for Leeds United.

Payman Langroudi: When Leeds were doing really well.

Mark Becker: Back [01:24:20] in the 70s. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Um, certainly. And then I would probably go [01:24:25] with, I’d probably go with someone like. [01:24:30] Um, [01:24:35] I wouldn’t go with anyone in the movie industry. I just find that a bit [01:24:40] vain. I’m not. I’m just trying to think of who’s.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s [01:24:45] your Dental hero?

Mark Becker: Probably the guy who’s trained me, to be honest. [01:24:50] Oh, really? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What about very.

Mark Becker: Unassuming. But I do still have dinner with him, [01:24:55] so I can’t add into my fancy table.

Payman Langroudi: Well, he could. Why not? Why not? Um. But. But I don’t mean that. What [01:25:00] what what comes to mind? What was the best course you ever went on?

Mark Becker: Uh, easy. [01:25:05] Um. American dentist. Ronald. [01:25:10]

Payman Langroudi: Goldstein.

Mark Becker: Goldstein.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, the original cosmetic dentist. Yeah. Well, it was.

Mark Becker: More about how [01:25:15] to place posterior restorations. And from that day, [01:25:20] I’ve used a rubber dam on every single patient.

Payman Langroudi: Was that in London?

Mark Becker: Yeah, it was in London. That was, I think, [01:25:25] the course that changed the way I provided dentistry more than anything else. Because before that I’d placed [01:25:30] a couple of posterior composites. Everyone got sensitivity afterwards. The contact points weren’t [01:25:35] great. And he in one afternoon, and I think it was one day. And then there was an afternoon and a [01:25:40] morning session where you sat down as a practical on phantom heads, and [01:25:45] that, that, that is the I think, of course, that changed my dentistry more than anything else.

Payman Langroudi: Favourite bit [01:25:50] of kit.

Mark Becker: Intraoral camera I suppose, to be honest, it has to be that. I mean, there’s loads [01:25:55] of kit. I love my lasers and my, um, scanners and I’m [01:26:00] looking forward to trying out the new, um. I should be getting it shortly. New Itero [01:26:05] Lumina. Is it? I think they call it. And that’s.

Payman Langroudi: Have you used that feature on the scanner [01:26:10] where you can, um, scan twice and see the where? Yes. [01:26:15] Is that good?

Mark Becker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Some patients can see as well.

Payman Langroudi: So that that [01:26:20] must be a real good educational tool. No, that’s a.

Mark Becker: Good educational tool. And they can see the difference. But you’ve got to wait a [01:26:25] certain amount of time and then obviously you’ve lost some tissue. I mean, I’m very big into using a [01:26:30] night guard for patients. And just saying to the patient, look where the night guard is. Six months time you [01:26:35] come back and you’ve He’d been wearing. It’s brand new. I’m not going to worry. But if you’ve destroyed it in three weeks, we’ve got a problem. [01:26:40] But, uh. Yeah, but. Yeah, a bit of kit. Yeah. Unsure camera.

Payman Langroudi: Final [01:26:45] question. Um, we’ll get back to you. A third guest. Um. This [01:26:50] a deathbed question? Yeah. On your deathbed, surrounded by [01:26:55] your loved ones? Yeah. Hopefully in many years from now, three pieces [01:27:00] of wisdom you’d leave them with. What would they be?

Mark Becker: Don’t [01:27:05] worry so much, because stress never helps anything. At the end of the day. [01:27:10] I wish I could take that advice myself, but I can’t. Um. I [01:27:15] try not to fight with people. Most [01:27:20] people are good and they don’t mean to cause a grievance. Try and [01:27:25] find the good time to see the good in people. Try and accept that you know what? You might have been a little bit [01:27:30] at fault as well. And try not to fight with people because ultimately, especially family. I [01:27:35] try not to fall out with family if you can help it. So true. Um. You know, they’re the only. You know. [01:27:40] That’s your blood at the end of the day and try not to fall out with them.

Payman Langroudi: And so often that does happen.

Mark Becker: And [01:27:45] I suppose don’t only worry about, you know, [01:27:50] what’s in the bank or what you’re driving. Because the truth, at the end [01:27:55] of the day, it doesn’t change who you are as a person. You know, we all thankfully [01:28:00] have pretty good jobs. We all do generally very well. But it’s not a matter of, you know, [01:28:05] just worrying about what’s in the bank. You can’t you’ll drive yourself [01:28:10] mad because there’s always going to be someone who’s got more than you. And unfortunately, human nature, [01:28:15] you tend to look up. You tend to be jealous of the people above you, and you forget how many people [01:28:20] are aren’t, and how many people are below you. And I don’t mean below as an insulting term, I mean [01:28:25] as in the quality of life. And you know, we don’t appreciate how lucky [01:28:30] we are. Well, and don’t get me wrong, I wish I could take those three pieces of advice and live by them myself. [01:28:35] It’s not easy. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Um, but I think if I could impart those three things, I think that [01:28:40] would be.

Payman Langroudi: It’s that kind of a question. You can either say it, answer it in a sort of I did this and [01:28:45] it worked for me. Or you can say.

Mark Becker: I’d want to be better.

Payman Langroudi: That way. I wish I did do this, you know. [01:28:50]

Mark Becker: Well, I wish I could be more of those of those things at the end of the day.

Payman Langroudi: And you’ve got kids, [01:28:55] right? I’ve got.

Mark Becker: Four.

Payman Langroudi: Four.

Mark Becker: I’ve got four.

Payman Langroudi: My goodness. Tip [01:29:00] my hat off. How old’s the youngest? The youngest is.

Mark Becker: 15. Just starting GCSEs.

Payman Langroudi: Oh. Mine too. [01:29:05] Yeah. So. And the oldest.

Mark Becker: 28 this year.

Payman Langroudi: Wow. [01:29:10]

Mark Becker: We had three under three and then a nine year gap. And the number four.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Mark Becker: No. [01:29:15] But I’m proud of them all.

Payman Langroudi: Any of them dentists.

Mark Becker: Know how [01:29:20] much I love dentistry? You have to do it because you’re interested in it. And I think my [01:29:25] my my oldest son is an accountant. My second son’s a computer, uh, works [01:29:30] with computers and I can’t quite understand what he does, but it sounds clever. Um, and, [01:29:35] um, my third son, um, is trying to is a struggling actor. [01:29:40] Oh. So, uh, he wants to. He was [01:29:45] studying to be a barrister, and he said, I don’t enjoy it. And to be hats off to him. He had the the [01:29:50] strength of personality to say, it’s not for me. I don’t want to do this. Yeah. And he’s trying [01:29:55] his hand. He’s trying to be an actor.

Payman Langroudi: Love that. Yeah. I love the fact that, you know that it doesn’t have to be [01:30:00] maths, physics, chemistry and dentistry and law, you know? [01:30:05] You know, someone’s.

Mark Becker: My daughter. Still might be a dentist. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But you know what I mean. We’d never have [01:30:10] movies. We’d never have plays we’d never have if someone didn’t become an actor. Exactly.

Mark Becker: No. [01:30:15] And they’re very I mean, they you talk to most if you meet [01:30:20] actors and I know a few, they are incredibly intelligent people. I mean, they they [01:30:25] the ability to learn their lines and to to integrate them is It’s just incredible. I mean, [01:30:30] I can’t, you know, I certainly could never do something like that, but, [01:30:35] uh, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Been such a massive pleasure. Thank you so much for coming all the way as well.

Mark Becker: It wasn’t that far, but it’s [01:30:40] a pleasure. It was good to meet you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You too.

Mark Becker: Thank you. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This [01:30:45] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get [01:30:50] to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:30:55] hosts, Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [01:31:00]

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole [01:31:05] thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening [01:31:10] to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value [01:31:15] out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if [01:31:20] you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, [01:31:25] so much for listening. Thanks.

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