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[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders, [00:00:35] the podcast where you get to go one on one [00:00:40] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:45] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:00:50] gives me great pleasure to welcome Yohan Oduwole onto the podcast. [00:00:55] Yohan is a young dentist who is making real waves in [00:01:00] the profession. Um, she had an interesting story getting to dental school, which we’ll talk about [00:01:05] a bit of an influencer on the old social media wonderful YouTube channel, which [00:01:10] is where I saw an interview with Bill Dorfman, I think. Yes. Yeah. Um, years [00:01:15] ago, um, an avid listener to this pod, thank goodness. And, um, [00:01:20] someone who, you know, for me, just has positivity. Is that like, [00:01:25] you just you just scream positivity. You. And it’s a massive pleasure to have you.

Yewande Oduwole: Thank you so [00:01:30] much. It’s an honour to be on the podcast. I’ve actually been listening to it since I was a student, so [00:01:35] it feels weird to be on the other side. So thank you for having me.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a pleasure. [00:01:40] You want to tell me your backstory? Where [00:01:45] were you born? When did you first think dentistry? [00:01:50]

Yewande Oduwole: So I was born in Nigeria. Um, I came [00:01:55] here when I was about two, two years old.

Payman Langroudi: She don’t remember?

Yewande Oduwole: No, I don’t. I don’t [00:02:00] remember much of Nigeria, but I stayed there long enough to understand the language. So I’m very grateful [00:02:05] to have had my early, early days in this earth, in my [00:02:10] motherland, because I was able to learn Yoruba. And then I came here with my mum [00:02:15] and dad and like a lot of, you know, ethnic minorities just looking for [00:02:20] a better life here. Um, I just remember my mum doing a lot [00:02:25] of different jobs. So it was my dad moving from house to house. Um, [00:02:30] I even asked my mum, what does she remember about me growing up? What was I like as a child? [00:02:35] And she was just like she used to take me to work with her because she used to work as a carer. And [00:02:40] the old ladies would be like, oh, your daughter is so, so sweet, so positive. I’d want to like, help her. [00:02:45] I was probably like 4 or 5 at the time, but I’d want to do the work with her. [00:02:50] Um, so yeah, growing up, it, I just remember just seeing [00:02:55] my parents work really, really hard. And.

Payman Langroudi: Are you an only child?

Yewande Oduwole: No. [00:03:00] I’m the eldest of three. Oh, okay. So I am the eldest daughter. [00:03:05] If there are any old daughters listening to this podcast, you know what it’s like to be the eldest [00:03:10] daughter of the family. They call it eldest daughter syndrome. You have to look after everyone. [00:03:15] So I look after my two younger brothers growing up, and when my parents were out [00:03:20] working, it would be me. Um, so yeah, and growing [00:03:25] up as well, unfortunately, my parents didn’t stay together, so I had to, you know, witness [00:03:30] that journey of separation. So how old were you? Uh, probably about ten when [00:03:35] they split up.

Payman Langroudi: For that to happen.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. No, it was tough. I just I remember going to [00:03:40] school and seeing all these, you know, happy families and just thinking, oh, it would be so great to [00:03:45] to have that kind of dynamic. So yeah, childhood was [00:03:50] wasn’t the most.

Payman Langroudi: It was turbulent.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. Turbulent. [00:03:55] I was watching a show on Netflix the other day, actually called made, and I really [00:04:00] resonated with it. Seeing her journey, looking after her child. And they said in that programme that [00:04:05] if a child doesn’t grow up with stability, that child is more likely [00:04:10] to have problems. And I definitely didn’t grow up with stability, so I probably would have [00:04:15] been a part of the statistics to grow up with problems. Stability [00:04:20] is really important.

Payman Langroudi: Gabor Mate talks about it. Have you looked at any of his work?

Yewande Oduwole: No. What does [00:04:25] he say?

Payman Langroudi: He’s sort of traces all of addiction back to childhood [00:04:30] trauma of some sort.

Yewande Oduwole: Well, it’s true, obviously, if you’re growing up in [00:04:35] that environment, you kind of maybe people tend to seek happiness and pleasure from [00:04:40] elsewhere, but.

Payman Langroudi: So then, so then, so then on that point is that is there any [00:04:45] sort of leftover from that childhood experience [00:04:50] now? Like for instance, do you look for stability more than you look for excitement [00:04:55] or whatever? Like what resonates if I say that what’s [00:05:00] left of that turbulence in your childhood today.

Yewande Oduwole: I feel the fact [00:05:05] that I’ve gone through that just makes me want stability for my future. Which is why [00:05:10] I think, obviously when we start talking about my career, I have been so determined to make sure that [00:05:15] I create a solid foundation for myself, because eventually [00:05:20] I want to have children and I don’t want them to have to go through what I witnessed, because [00:05:25] you kind of become a you’re a child, but you’re a parent at the same time. And [00:05:30] I think children should be allowed to be kids rather than thinking, oh, you [00:05:35] know, how are we going to afford this? Or what can I do to help my parents, etc. as [00:05:40] a child, thinking about all of that, obviously it gives you builds resilience in you. Yeah. Um, I’m [00:05:45] sure you have kids when you they’re probably in a fortunate situation where they don’t have [00:05:50] to kind of go through all of that. But I think going through that does build a certain level of resilience. [00:05:55] And you, you, because you’ve gone through it and you’ve seen it firsthand, you don’t want that [00:06:00] for your children.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know, my, my my wife was ill and [00:06:05] an ambulance came to our house to take her away recently, years ago. [00:06:10] Um, but I was talking to my daughter, and, uh, out of the blue, she. She said [00:06:15] that was the worst night of my life. And that was, like, maybe seven years ago, and. [00:06:20] And I had no idea. Yeah. You know, you had no idea that that. I mean, I knew she she was she was [00:06:25] around.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But, you know, at age 14, she’s telling me when [00:06:30] she was seven, that was the worst, worst day of her life. You know.

Yewande Oduwole: That just shows like that just.

Payman Langroudi: Goes to show. Yeah. [00:06:35] And often as a child, you sort of bury that stuff, and and or [00:06:40] you suffer in silence. Like. Like with my daughter’s example. Like she’d not mentioned it once before. [00:06:45] Not once. Um, and but then it did come out in that conversation for whatever reason, [00:06:50] you know? Wow.

Yewande Oduwole: It just shows how childhood trauma is. Really. You think you’ve forgotten about [00:06:55] it, but as an adult, it does play a role. And for your daughter to remember that, it just shows [00:07:00] the effect it has on her thinking. Is mom going to be okay? Is she. Was she okay? [00:07:05]

Payman Langroudi: She was okay.

Yewande Oduwole: Okay, good.

Payman Langroudi: So now, I mean, looking at you from [00:07:10] the sort of from a distance, right? Or. I mean, I think social media is a distance, isn’t it? [00:07:15] That you get this sort of highlight reel of someone’s.

Yewande Oduwole: Life 100%, and you look.

Payman Langroudi: So happy and so wonderful, and [00:07:20] you’re really making waves in the Dental world especially, you know, where you’re at so early on [00:07:25] in the journey. What are you struggling with?

Yewande Oduwole: Good question. [00:07:30] Um, I think a lot of my career I have [00:07:35] struggled with imposter syndrome. Really? 100%. I feel even though I [00:07:40] get the accolades, you know, even literally last weekend I won the [00:07:45] award for best young dentist. South East. You felt.

Payman Langroudi: Like you didn’t deserve.

Yewande Oduwole: It? No, I felt great. [00:07:50]

Payman Langroudi: Do you believe in that sort of manifesting?

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. Like, my faith plays a huge part in my [00:07:55] life. Um, definitely believe, you know, in God and just [00:08:00] trusting that what is for you will always be for you. And I feel [00:08:05] like my path has been laid out already, but it’s up to me to, [00:08:10] to to seek it. So yeah, when I won the award, I was just like, this has actually happened. But then I had this [00:08:15] overwhelming just, oh my gosh, am I deserving of this? People are going to look at me [00:08:20] and think, oh, she’s only four years qualified. How has she won this award? I think that’s one of my [00:08:25] biggest struggles, thinking so much about what other people think. And it’s [00:08:30] so funny because I do social media and people probably think, oh, she she doesn’t.

Payman Langroudi: Think you don’t care.

Yewande Oduwole: No. [00:08:35] Yeah, I care, but I think the difference is I just convinced [00:08:40] myself that people always have an opinion, and it’s not up to me to change that if [00:08:45] they want to. People probably think, oh, she doesn’t deserve that or oh, she, she [00:08:50] hasn’t, she hasn’t done this clinical cases why she won this award. But at the end of [00:08:55] the day, I know there’s a reason why God set me on this path. So I’d like.

Payman Langroudi: To break [00:09:00] that down into two aspects. Go for it. One, your sort of faith. Yeah, [00:09:05] because I’ve got a friend who’s quite religious. One of my best friends. Mhm. And [00:09:10] there are moments in, in life where you know, where a challenge has happened. [00:09:15] Right. And he’s a, he’s a top surgeon. You know challenges happen to him all the time. Right. [00:09:20] And we were talking and he was saying he was having a difficult life. And he’s he’s [00:09:25] got backache. He does 12 hour operations. Um, and [00:09:30] and the operations no one else in the country can do. Oh, wow. And, you know, sometimes he can’t get out of [00:09:35] bed, but there’s a 12 hour operation that, you know, the guy might die if he doesn’t. It’s a nightmare situation. [00:09:40] You’d imagine. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: Of course.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes when he’s talking about these situations, his eyes [00:09:45] kind of glaze over and he goes, but you know what? It’s going to be okay. 100%. [00:09:50] And I’m like, how do you know? And he goes, no, it’s going to be okay. And [00:09:55] I suddenly realised that that’s his faith. Yeah. And so I don’t have faith. [00:10:00] Right. So I don’t have that moment. Yeah. As my wife was being taken away in the ambulance, [00:10:05] I didn’t have that moment of thinking. It’s going to be okay. Someone’s looking out for me. Yeah. So there [00:10:10] are moments when when someone dies here, I don’t have that moment of thinking they’ve gone to [00:10:15] this better place, that they’re looking down on me or whatever. You know, religion tells you. Yeah. [00:10:20] Um, and, you know, there’s that famous phrase about, uh, there’s no atheists in a bomb shelter [00:10:25] sort of thing. Yeah. And, you know, or if I’m really need something [00:10:30] to happen, I don’t. I can’t pray to someone to say, please make this thing happen. Yeah. [00:10:35] So, so there are downsides to not having faith.

Yewande Oduwole: Of course.

Payman Langroudi: But there are downsides [00:10:40] to having faith as well. So tell me about those. I mean, do you do you have massive [00:10:45] guilt or something?

Yewande Oduwole: So it’s a lot to unpack there. What you’ve just [00:10:50] said, I think firstly, my faith, I feel like I wouldn’t be where I [00:10:55] am today without my faith. It has genuinely, genuinely been [00:11:00] such a catalyst in my success. And obviously, for someone like you [00:11:05] that you said you don’t have faith for you, that probably just sounds strange. Like, no, you feel that I did it all myself, [00:11:10] but I genuinely feel in moments. For example, if we take it back to when I didn’t get into dental school. [00:11:15] Yeah, that was the biggest test of my faith. I remember [00:11:20] when was it 2013? I first applied to dental school [00:11:25] over ten years ago now, which feels so weird. I prayed so much. I [00:11:30] was like, I want to get in and I didn’t. I got two offers. I [00:11:35] got an offer from Manchester and Liverpool. So I was thinking great because I wanted to be in a [00:11:40] city. I was thinking, it’s all working out.

Payman Langroudi: You missed it by 1%.

Yewande Oduwole: I’ve heard this. Yes. So [00:11:45] I had got these. Imagine you have two offers from these top dental schools [00:11:50] and you do your exams. I had done countless of past papers. Right? [00:11:55] I’m a I’m a hard worker. I’m not someone that’s naturally smart. I have to work hard. [00:12:00] So I did so many past papers revise, revise, revise. And it got to the day Payman [00:12:05] did the exam finished and I remember the invigilator coming round. She picked [00:12:10] up my paper, turned it around and said, oh, you didn’t want to answer this 25 [00:12:15] mark question at the back.

Payman Langroudi: You just didn’t see it.

Yewande Oduwole: I didn’t see it until this day. [00:12:20] Every time I tell this story, I feel that moment all over again. I literally [00:12:25] burst into tears. I was thinking, can I have that back? I can answer it. I can answer it. It was a question about [00:12:30] the heart or something. It was a biology exam and I was just like, how did I miss that? And I [00:12:35] think that’s one of those moments when you’re like, God, Why? Yeah. Like I’ve literally [00:12:40] I could see those offers that I had flying out the window. Because if I’ve missed out this whole question, there’s no way I’m going [00:12:45] to get my result. Yeah. So I think that year I was really depressed because [00:12:50] obviously the results came out. And to make matters worse, it was 1% [00:12:55] off. You got.

Payman Langroudi: Everything else right, I.

Yewande Oduwole: Guess. So even if I just answered like a few other things, I would have got it. [00:13:00] So I was thinking, how could this be? And I was really battling with God, saying, what’s [00:13:05] what’s going on here? Like I prayed, I got the offers. What is going on? Um, I even paid for a remark [00:13:10] that year. I had to, like, work. By the way, I’ve had like seven jobs. I’ll get into that later, [00:13:15] but I had to work during my gap year because I didn’t want to, like, burden my parents with the finances. [00:13:20] Um, I had to remark my paper. It was £200 at the time. £200 was a lot money. [00:13:25] I was like, oh, to remark a paper, but I wanted to make sure.

Payman Langroudi: And it came back 1% off again, [00:13:30] 1% off.

Yewande Oduwole: Uh, so.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, I guess you’re going to tell me then you had [00:13:35] a great year and then you realised what God’s big plan was, or something like this. But. But we [00:13:40] were talking about Uchenna before. Yes. And I had Uchenna on this pod and [00:13:45] she said to me, her sister passed away in her 30s. And [00:13:50] I said, and she was a very religious person. Yeah. And I said to her, did that not shake [00:13:55] your belief? Of course. And she said it strengthened her belief that I don’t understand, [00:14:00] because I do understand your your one. If the following year you had this great year. Yeah. You found yourself. [00:14:05] And that was God’s big plan or whatever. But what was God’s big plan in taking her sister? And [00:14:10] it’s really interesting that if your dreams come true, if your prayers come true, that [00:14:15] strengthens your resolve. But if your prayers don’t come true, that strengthens your resolve [00:14:20] again. And that’s the interesting part of it for me, that second part.

Yewande Oduwole: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: So explain that to me. [00:14:25]

Yewande Oduwole: So there’s a scripture in the Bible, Proverbs three verse 5 to 6, which says, trust in the Lord [00:14:30] with all your heart. Do not lean on your own understanding. Um, seek his will in all you do, and he will show you [00:14:35] which path to take.

Payman Langroudi: He moves in mysterious ways.

Yewande Oduwole: So I think the answer to that question [00:14:40] is that there is a greater understanding that we don’t have. And if you sit in that moment, [00:14:45] for example, Uchenna, may God bless her soul, she in that [00:14:50] moment when her sister passed away, she didn’t know what was going on. You know, death [00:14:55] is something nobody wants, but God sees it all and [00:15:00] he understands. And I think that’s where we talk about faith and it comes in. It is comforting. And [00:15:05] from that, her legacy lives on. You don’t know what that could, could [00:15:10] drive. So I think give me give me another example.

Payman Langroudi: A child is born [00:15:15] three days later, a bomb drops on him and he dies. It just happened. So many, so many children have died [00:15:20] that way in Palestine. Apparently there’s something like 300 children who were born after [00:15:25] October the 7th that died today. Yeah. When you look at that, what [00:15:30] do you literally just outsource that to God? Moves in mysterious ways? No, obviously. [00:15:35] How do you feel about that?

Yewande Oduwole: Things like that. It’s it. Obviously it breaks my [00:15:40] heart and what’s happening in Palestine.

Payman Langroudi: But the god, the God part of it. I’ll tell you what. Muslims, Muslims [00:15:45] say something like this. They say you saw that? Yeah. That child [00:15:50] was innocent. That child’s got going directly to heaven. But you saw that. And [00:15:55] so if you don’t learn from that, that’s your test. Yeah. [00:16:00] That’s what Muslims say about that. Yeah. What do you think?

Yewande Oduwole: God gives us free will. And we cannot [00:16:05] control what humans do. Like, for example, the people that are [00:16:10] obviously bombing and the world leaders, they’ve been given free will. And that’s the thing about Christianity. We believe that everyone [00:16:15] has been given this free will. So you can’t necessarily control what other people do, but it’s [00:16:20] how you respond to it. So it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Similar.

Yewande Oduwole: It’s it’s so [00:16:25] tricky and I don’t have all the answers. But what I do believe is that there is power [00:16:30] in faith and prayer, and not all the time it’s going to go the way you want. You know, I wish I could pray [00:16:35] today and end everything that’s going on in Palestine. But again, it’s so complicated [00:16:40] and there is an element of free will. And ultimately [00:16:45] God sees it all and he knows the final plan. So.

Payman Langroudi: But not to mention [00:16:50] in that war, both sides think God is on their side. Yeah. [00:16:55] Both sides. Both sides deeply believe that. Yeah. And so, you know, religion. [00:17:00] You know, I don’t have to spell it out for you. There’s all sorts of problems with religion, of [00:17:05] course.

Yewande Oduwole: And we could talk about religion for ages, but it’s not the purpose of the podcast. And I know, I’m [00:17:10] so sorry. No, no, no, I know, but it’s one of these things like religion can cause [00:17:15] wars. But the thing about religion, there’s a difference between religion and relationship. Religion. Religion [00:17:20] is where people are like, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. You’ve got to act in this way. [00:17:25] But I believe in like a relationship with God, and I see.

Payman Langroudi: You believe in.

Yewande Oduwole: Karma. [00:17:30] Karma? Oh. I [00:17:35] feel like I if you do good, you can’t always expect good to come [00:17:40] back to you. Like good things happen to bad people, you know? And it’s one of these things I think you. [00:17:45] I believe in just having control over what you do and not worrying. Oh, if I do [00:17:50] this, is this going to happen to me? Like like you said in the beginning, I, I quite a positive [00:17:55] person. My mindset is that if this makes me happy, I’m going to [00:18:00] do it. Okay. Somebody else like, for example, I was talking to my friend about this the other day. [00:18:05] I’m the kind of person I will help other people, right? You know, if someone needs [00:18:10] you and you know I need connection with this person, or I want this job or. Yeah. Me too. Me too. Yeah. [00:18:15] I was the person in uni I would give people like. I remember there was this top secret [00:18:20] revision bundle that you had to pay for. I’d be like, oh, I’ve got it, you know, have it. [00:18:25] You know, I believe in an abundance mentality where everybody can win, but I [00:18:30] know there are people that I will do stuff for them that they will never do for me. But if I got so bogged [00:18:35] down by, oh, this person’s not going to do this for me, why should I do it for them? I think that it [00:18:40] can just, you know, cause so much negativity. So yes.

Payman Langroudi: You wouldn’t be [00:18:45] true to yourself, right?

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. And I think if you are true to yourself in everything that you do, [00:18:50] naturally, good things will come.

Payman Langroudi: To you about the other part of it, the [00:18:55] awards. Oh, yeah. And, you know, congratulations. Yeah. A couple of things I [00:19:00] want to talk about awards. Number one, were you tactical about winning this award [00:19:05] like is because I get the feeling that you can’t win it without being tactical. Like, did you call up a bunch [00:19:10] of people and find out what it is? What does it take to win the award? Did you what [00:19:15] did you do? What did you do to win? If, let’s say there’s someone else, there’s a young Dental student right now listening to this. [00:19:20] Yeah. And he’s thinking, I want to win an award. What did you do to win [00:19:25] the award? And number two, do you have empathy with a large group of [00:19:30] people who say, you know, these awards are divisive? Um, [00:19:35] there’s a top dentist somewhere who would never enter awards. And now, now, now, now [00:19:40] they’re telling him the top dentist in your town is this other guy.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, [00:19:45] Awards. I think firstly, for the first part of the question, I [00:19:50] didn’t call people up. I didn’t I didn’t even know I was going to win. Like, I, people were [00:19:55] telling me, oh, did you know you were going to win? Do you have so many contacts? No, none of that. I literally followed the. [00:20:00]

Payman Langroudi: The guidelines.

Yewande Oduwole: The guidelines and just.

Payman Langroudi: Ticked them off.

Yewande Oduwole: Literally. I’m that kind of person where [00:20:05] I would go through everything. Okay. So they asked for you need to talk about your, you know, clinical [00:20:10] skills. You have to I put a case in there that I’ve completed, um, what you do outside of dentistry, [00:20:15] any charitable work I’ve done volunteering in Ghana. But I did that. I didn’t do it [00:20:20] because I wanted I wanted to enter into a war later. But that’s just what I did whilst I was in uni. [00:20:25]

Payman Langroudi: Interestingly, I was talking to one of the judges and he was saying more than half the entries get thrown out because they just don’t [00:20:30] don’t answer the questions on the form. Literally more than.

Yewande Oduwole: Half. That’s crazy. So [00:20:35] you can win an award if you just follow. Yeah, even my friend. I [00:20:40] encouraged her to apply for her practice and she followed the guidelines and they [00:20:45] ended up winning as well. Oh, cool. So she, you know, so you don’t have to be. Some have [00:20:50] loads of Instagram followers. People think it’s about Instagram followers or who you know. No, just follow [00:20:55] the guidelines, make sure it looks good. Your presentation I literally did like [00:21:00] a.

Payman Langroudi: Pretty.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. The judges, they’re giving up their time to read these awards. They don’t get [00:21:05] paid for it. Yeah, they literally have to volunteer to go through all these stand out. You need to stand out. Yeah, [00:21:10] I put together I think it was like 30 page PowerPoint presentation.

Payman Langroudi: 30. Okay.

Yewande Oduwole: That’s good. 30 [00:21:15] page PowerPoint presentation highlighting everything that I’ve done in my career. You [00:21:20] know what I do outside of dentistry and my work with the Black Dental Network, my volunteering [00:21:25] podcasts I’ve been on and all these things. I think [00:21:30] being a dentist, obviously it’s a given. We’re all going to be, you know, [00:21:35] I hope we all aspire to have great clinical dentistry. That’s a [00:21:40] given. Everyone’s going to be good. It’s like when you go to university, you all have good grades, you know. So [00:21:45] to enter, it’s given that you do good dentistry. I think what the judges are after, they want to [00:21:50] know, okay. Apart from that, what makes you a well-rounded dentist, [00:21:55] by the way?

Payman Langroudi: By the way, I went to the awards. Yeah, after the BCD, it was on the same night, [00:22:00] and the FMC did a fantastic job. The last time I’d been [00:22:05] was like 5 or 6 years ago. All right. And it was, it was, you know, they call it the Oscars of dentistry. [00:22:10] It literally felt like the Oscars.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, we’re.

Payman Langroudi: Talking Grosvenor House 1000 [00:22:15] people. Yeah. The production quality. I mean, it was [00:22:20] just it was just a beautiful, beautiful setting. You know, it was really was beautiful. And I came away from [00:22:25] it. You know, I don’t particularly give a damn about awards one way or the other, you know? But I came away [00:22:30] from it thinking I’m going to that every year.

Yewande Oduwole: Because.

Payman Langroudi: It was almost the gathering of the year. [00:22:35] Yeah. And and why not at the gathering of the year? Celebrate success. I’m not hating [00:22:40] on it. Of course I’m asking is, do you have empathy with the people who do not [00:22:45] like it?

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. And I, I, I know a dentist. [00:22:50] He applied the year before I did, and I wanted him to win so badly. Like, because [00:22:55] he’s so amazing. His work’s amazing, you know? And I really emphasised that these [00:23:00] people that do amazing dentistry, they won’t always get the award. And I’m just like, it [00:23:05] shouldn’t be like that, you know. But then I think that’s where you have to kind of be like, I don’t need this [00:23:10] award. Even if I didn’t win, I still feel good in myself.

Payman Langroudi: Um, are you in the top 50 as well? [00:23:15]

Yewande Oduwole: Yes. Are you? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s was another divisive issue.

Yewande Oduwole: That was that [00:23:20] was in 2022. But again, it’s because I choose to put myself out there. Sure. And [00:23:25] at the end of the day.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me, do you take these back to your mom and say, look, mom, my.

Yewande Oduwole: Mom’s [00:23:30] really proud. No.

Payman Langroudi: I think that look, if I had ever won. I’ve never won an award. But if I’d [00:23:35] ever won an award, I feel like that would be the most fun moment. Taking it back to mom.

Yewande Oduwole: And [00:23:40] that’s what I do it for, to be like, look, mom. And she’s so proud. She’s telling [00:23:45] all her friends she’s posting on Facebook, telling all the aunties and uncles and just that feeling of just knowing [00:23:50] that the.

Payman Langroudi: Conclusion of her struggle. Yes. I love that.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, I do love that. [00:23:55] And I and even if you know these awards, for me, it’s just I [00:24:00] do it for knowing that I’ve made my parents proud. And regardless, [00:24:05] I don’t want people to listen to this and feel like, ah, I need to get an award to feel like, [00:24:10] validated. You are validated if you do great dentistry, if you care about your [00:24:15] patients, patience. If you love dentistry, if you’re if you’re a great dentist, you do not need an award. So [00:24:20] I don’t want to feel like I am saying, oh, you know, you [00:24:25] need an award to be the best dentist, you know? So I get where you’re coming from, and there’s so many dentists [00:24:30] out there that do not have the best young dentist title, but you are still a fantastic, amazing [00:24:35] dentist. Um, yeah, because it is problematic.

Payman Langroudi: Dental [00:24:40] school in Plymouth Peninsula? Yes.

Yewande Oduwole: Peninsula [00:24:45] Dental School. How did you feel.

Payman Langroudi: When you got there? Um, from the sort of workload perspective, [00:24:50] because I was talking to my buddies last night and I was telling them dentistry [00:24:55] was the hardest goddamn thing I’d ever like. They were all saying A-levels was the hardest thing [00:25:00] they’ve ever done.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, but.

Payman Langroudi: I felt dentistry was harder than A-levels.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, gosh. Honestly, [00:25:05] I found it really hard. I did the International Baccalaureate. I was a bit more prepared [00:25:10] because you have to do IB, you do six instead of four A-levels. [00:25:15] So when I got to dentistry, when I got to dental school, firstly Plymouth, I didn’t. I wanted [00:25:20] to be in a city. Like I said, I applied, I wanted to be in Manchester, Liverpool, these big cities, Birmingham. And then when I got [00:25:25] Plymouth, I was like, where? Where is this place? But I was happy. I got you, you get what you’re given that [00:25:30] the second time round I applied. That was the only. What did.

Payman Langroudi: You think of it when you got.

Yewande Oduwole: There? I just thought.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:25:35] were in middle of nowhere.

Yewande Oduwole: I thought I was in the middle of nowhere.

Payman Langroudi: The naval base, whatever.

Yewande Oduwole: Literally. [00:25:40] But I grew to love it. Yeah. And I’m glad I went to Plymouth. Um, those [00:25:45] five years, I look back at dental school. Honestly. Amazing. Um. Imagine [00:25:50] no one else can say that they. Well, if you went to Plymouth, you can say. But you studied by [00:25:55] the sea, would go out to the beach. And it was really lovely place to study. And I made amazing [00:26:00] friends there. We still we’re still friends till this day. Um, and that’s [00:26:05] where I did a lot of my YouTube videos in my room.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, that’s where it started.

Yewande Oduwole: That’s where it started. [00:26:10] So as soon as I got in, I said to myself, I want to. I’ve made it now [00:26:15] into dental school. There’s probably loads of other young dentists, especially, you know, young black [00:26:20] female dentists that they don’t have anyone to look up to. Like I was saying [00:26:25] before we started this podcast. Doctor Uchenna Okoye, she was one of the first black female [00:26:30] dentists I saw on a Sensodyne advert. And I saw her. I was like, oh my gosh, someone [00:26:35] that looks like me, I can do this. So that’s why I said I need to put myself [00:26:40] out there.

Payman Langroudi: It was that influential that seeing someone who looks like you made [00:26:45] you think, I can do this. It really was that.

Yewande Oduwole: Representation is.

Payman Langroudi: Key.

Yewande Oduwole: Because [00:26:50] if you don’t see someone that looks like you, you kind of feel or script.

Payman Langroudi: Yourself [00:26:55] in other directions.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. And even in dental school, I think I was one of two black people there. [00:27:00] So it’s. Yeah, I wrote an article about this [00:27:05] on dentistry. Co.uk during black. It was me, Doctor Media and Chinwe. We wrote an [00:27:10] article on Black Lives Matter. Yeah, during Black Lives Matter time on the importance of representation. [00:27:15] Um, so that was a big deal for me. That’s why I put myself out [00:27:20] there on YouTube to make these videos. And since then, I’ve had so [00:27:25] many people, like, reach out to me like you, and you’ve helped me get into dental school. Thank you for your video. [00:27:30] And that feeling alone made it all worth it. Yeah. [00:27:35] So what about.

Payman Langroudi: Just from the, you know, being away from home for the first time and, like, [00:27:40] were you the party animal type? Were you not? Were you bookworm? [00:27:45] Who were you at dental school? Did you find were you were you passing exams every [00:27:50] time? First time or.

Yewande Oduwole: I’m a bit of both. I like to say I’m a social butterfly. [00:27:55] But when it’s time to study up, you won’t find me. I’ll be in my room.

Payman Langroudi: Did you pass your exams? [00:28:00]

Yewande Oduwole: Um, there was one, actually. The medical emergency. One. I remember this, I remember I [00:28:05] failed it because I was doing my chest compressions too lightly. So I had to do that one again. [00:28:10] But I wasn’t like, you know, top of the class or anything. I’d get by. I’d [00:28:15] get I’ll do what needed to be done to get to get through to the next bit. Thank God I didn’t have to like retake [00:28:20] a year whilst in dental school. Um, so I did what was needed. And [00:28:25] during my time in dental school as part of a choir gospel choir again, um, my [00:28:30] faith, I’d go every Thursday. We had like Bible study fellowship. So that really grounded me. [00:28:35] And I also ran an eyebrow threading business in uni. Really? Yes. So [00:28:40] I wrote that in my personal statement, actually, the manual dexterity aspect. I taught myself how to thread [00:28:45] eyebrows in secondary school, so I’d be on the playground, sort of like threading eyebrows. [00:28:50] They’d pay me like £3 per eyebrow. And then in uni I put the price up a bit. So I’d had that and I bought [00:28:55] like this whole. I was like the main eyebrow lady in Plymouth, where people would come to [00:29:00] me from like different courses to to thread their eyebrows. So I had that little business going [00:29:05] on on the side and the.

Payman Langroudi: Confidence to do that. Did you get that from your year out working [00:29:10] in retail?

Yewande Oduwole: Oh yeah. So I like to I’m a very hard [00:29:15] working person. Like that’s one thing I would whatever it is, [00:29:20] I’ve been a cleaner I’ve worked in. Yeah. Derriford hospital during.

Payman Langroudi: Covid.

Yewande Oduwole: So [00:29:25] that was in the pandemic. Um, I stayed in Plymouth and I decided to work in the hospital. [00:29:30] They needed people there. In my year out, I worked in retail in All Saints in Stratford. [00:29:35] Okay. And then I worked in Apple and.

Payman Langroudi: One of those kids with [00:29:40] the t shirts.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. Literally, you’d walk into Apple. I’d be the person there. Give me, give me.

Payman Langroudi: Some [00:29:45] takeaways you got from retail. Because I was 17, my parents said you’re a spoilt bitch. [00:29:50] Go work. Yeah. They they made me work in Oxford Street. Oh, [00:29:55] wow. I only lasted two weeks to say the truth. Did you? But I learned so much. Yeah. And the primary [00:30:00] lesson I learned was I never want to be the guy who works in Oxford Street. You know, like that, you know. [00:30:05] Because I was spoilt little 17 year old getting everything, getting everything I wanted. [00:30:10] And then I saw, wow, this is like people’s lives, people’s careers. And [00:30:15] I’ve told this story before on the pod, but I used to spend more than I used to earn.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: Like [00:30:20] every day. Like I’d take a taxi to work. I’d have steak at lunch. I [00:30:25] Payman go shopping. Whatever. Like, literally, like, [00:30:30] spent more than I was earning. But that was a lesson in itself. Yeah, the lesson into what a [00:30:35] bitch I was, number one. And and you know, the fact that there were other people there who had their [00:30:40] whole lives was that. And you know how lucky I was. I didn’t realise that there was a 17 [00:30:45] year old doing anything to you. So go on, tell me takeaways you got from working in Apple or [00:30:50] working in Allsaints? What kind of takeaways did you take?

Yewande Oduwole: I feel like everyone should work in retail. I felt that it [00:30:55] really made me see the value of just communication [00:31:00] with people. It’s really helped in dentistry, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember in All Saints we had a [00:31:05] target. We had to sell X number of leather jackets during the week and having [00:31:10] to really just you, you had to be a people person. You had to. I hate being salesy, but [00:31:15] it really made me realise the importance of just speaking [00:31:20] to people that you might not necessarily speak to.

Payman Langroudi: Of all types.

Yewande Oduwole: Of all types. You know, when you’re working [00:31:25] in retail, you meet all kinds of people and you have to have great customer service, [00:31:30] um, which is transferable in dentistry? A lot of dentistry is all about the communication. [00:31:35] Um, and it just taught me the importance of just hard work. And there [00:31:40] were people there that were like double my age and they were grafting. And I was thinking, oh, I don’t want to be working [00:31:45] here in like ten years time. So I think it just about Apple.

Payman Langroudi: What’s it like working for [00:31:50] Apple?

Yewande Oduwole: Apple. Apple was great. That was one of the best jobs. Their ethos [00:31:55] with Apple they hire people based on personality. So you don’t have to know everything about [00:32:00] how to fix a the phone. They will teach you that. Yeah. So literally when you go into Apple, you realise that [00:32:05] everybody’s there. Really. They’re there to help you. So I remember the interview stages of [00:32:10] Apple. It was really it was a lot of like teamwork, communication. And they [00:32:15] want their brand to be built on the people. And I think when you go into that shop, [00:32:20] you can’t stand there for more than five minutes without someone coming up to ask you, do you need help? [00:32:25] Are you okay?

Payman Langroudi: And they literally teach you that. Like if they look out on the floor for people.

Yewande Oduwole: They hire [00:32:30] people that are like the type.

Payman Langroudi: Of person that I.

Yewande Oduwole: Like that already. Um, what.

Payman Langroudi: About the targets? I mean, [00:32:35] do they? You said leather jackets are awesome at Apple. Are they like, we’re making £3 million a day?

Yewande Oduwole: Apple. [00:32:40] They’re already making money. So it wasn’t target. They care about customer experience.

Payman Langroudi: And how [00:32:45] much does one of those big stores make a day? Or do they not share that with you?

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, I didn’t they didn’t [00:32:50] really share that with us. I mean, I but I went there because I needed to make money during my gap year. I didn’t [00:32:55] really go into the business side of all of it, but probably like a fair amount.

Payman Langroudi: I was thinking about that because [00:33:00] I saw some stat that per square metre, an Apple Store makes more money than any other [00:33:05] store. But what’s crazy about that is they’re giant stores. It’s not [00:33:10] like they’re tiny stores. The number two is Tiffany’s.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, really? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So Tiffany’s, you can see it’s a small [00:33:15] store. Expensive products. You can understand it. Yeah. But Apple. Then I was thinking about it, and I thought, I’ve never [00:33:20] in any other situation do I go in and out of the store and spend as [00:33:25] much as I, because I go in knowing what I’m going to buy. So like I literally walk in saying, I’m looking for a MacBook [00:33:30] Pro one seven minutes later, I’m walking out having spent £2,000 [00:33:35] or whatever it costs, right? Yeah. So you can understand it when you think of it that way, but just [00:33:40] the size of those stores. And then, and, you know, the American ones are even bigger. Yeah. So so [00:33:45] interesting. So okay, then you did.

Yewande Oduwole: Um, [00:33:50] VAT throwback.

Payman Langroudi: I love that you do.

Yewande Oduwole: You know what? I [00:33:55] wanted to work in London. And then again, I feel like I always end up where I [00:34:00] don’t pick my first choice. Always the.

Payman Langroudi: Bridesmaid.

Yewande Oduwole: Literally. I ended up in Gravesend [00:34:05] and I know Gravesend. There was a lot of deprived. It was a deprived area and I think it was the [00:34:10] best place I ended up because I did a lot of experience. Yeah. Experience and nitty gritty [00:34:15] dentistry. I loved my educational supervisors, Raymond [00:34:20] and Sarita. Raymond was a dentist. He’d been working for over 40 years in the same practice. He’s [00:34:25] retired now, but he really took me under his wing and [00:34:30] taught you. Taught me so much about just dentistry [00:34:35] and working in the same practice. I think there’s beauty in working in the [00:34:40] same practice for a long time. You see your failures for sure. Um, which [00:34:45] is why the practice I’m at at the moment, I’ve been there for a few years now, and it’s quite nice to see your work [00:34:50] coming back and learning from it. Uh, so yeah, my foundation year was was [00:34:55] was brilliant. And it was during Covid actually.

Payman Langroudi: So actually you were one [00:35:00] of those Covid Covid babies.

Yewande Oduwole: Covid baby. Pandemic baby.

Payman Langroudi: So your experience level was [00:35:05] less than most. By the time you came out of dental school, is that right or not?

Yewande Oduwole: I [00:35:10] feel going to Peninsula Dental School. We had an advantage because unlike a lot of dental [00:35:15] schools, we have to see the patient from the very beginning and treatment plan everything as [00:35:20] you would in practice. Whereas I know other dental schools they have.

Payman Langroudi: This is a bit different in that sense. Department. So you’ve seen [00:35:25] a little bit seen.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, I feel like I had actually had good experience. So I’m really grateful to Peninsula [00:35:30] for that. And there are quite a modern dental school where they teach us photography and like the [00:35:35] importance of these things. So I was already quite I take pictures of my work. Um, so [00:35:40] I felt like I went into foundation training with a good understanding. But [00:35:45] like everyone knows, dental school doesn’t teach you everything. You got to learn a lot on the job. [00:35:50] Yeah. Um, but during the pandemic, we had to wait for like fallow [00:35:55] times and AGP procedures. We had to get the mask. [00:36:00] Thinking about it. Yeah. So I remember I was so excited to get fit tested because [00:36:05] I could finally do an AGP procedure. Oh those times.

Payman Langroudi: So this is your.

Yewande Oduwole: This [00:36:10] is my. Yeah. So it was it was like before I actually got to do dentistry [00:36:15] was a lot of hoops to go through. And after you did the procedure you’d have to wait [00:36:20] outside for a bit for the room to clear. So did you not.

Payman Langroudi: Consider staying on in that practice [00:36:25] or you just really wanted to get back to London?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, I wanted to get back to London. Um, but they [00:36:30] they wanted me to stay, but I think I did. I did my time in Gravesend [00:36:35] and the, the supervisor that was seen me, he was retiring as well. And, [00:36:40] um, the practice I ended up going to actually I remember two green Dental. It wasn’t [00:36:45] it was like 40 minutes, 30 minutes away. I remember during my [00:36:50] foundation year I had a case coming up, um, a composite bonding case, [00:36:55] and I wanted. I was literally doing these cases like, to, to, like, practice. [00:37:00] But then we didn’t have a certain composite that I wanted to use enamel. We’ll [00:37:05] say it’s enamel. So I remember contacting, [00:37:10] um, Rajiv, which one was it called?

Payman Langroudi: Which was?

Yewande Oduwole: It was impressed, but also [00:37:15] reliable. So I wanted to do the case, but I didn’t have the composite. And I wanted to, you [00:37:20] know, obviously do it nicely. So I contacted the practice, and he actually gave me the composite and [00:37:25] guided me through the case. So I think the fact that he helped [00:37:30] me through that, my first case in PhD year, I was like, this seems like someone that [00:37:35] will invest time and knowledge into me.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, Rajiv, I [00:37:40] was very, very, very impressed with him when I spoke to him. I grabbed him during [00:37:45] bacd and we recorded a little 15 minute section.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. [00:37:50]

Payman Langroudi: And I mean, I know who he is. I’ve been following him. But I was very impressed with this. Just like [00:37:55] curiosity of the guy and the amount of different things he does. [00:38:00] And I haven’t been to the new one boutique. It looks beautiful. [00:38:05] Yeah, it looks. And it’s a sister as well, right?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. So, um, they [00:38:10] have their they have three practices and they’re such great businesses.

Payman Langroudi: Called [00:38:15] two.

Yewande Oduwole: Green. No, no. Two green. Dental. Two green boutique and the figs Marsh Dental. Okay, so they’re all different, [00:38:20] but the way they’re very meticulous with the way they handle their business. And they [00:38:25] put a lot into their associates. So a lot of young associates, I would.

Payman Langroudi: Pay attention [00:38:30] to the non-clinical learnings in a place like that. Yeah, [00:38:35] yeah. Because it’s it’s a unique setup that it’s such a big [00:38:40] practice. And, you know, he’s after quality and he’s after bringing [00:38:45] people up, bringing people through. And I look back on all the jobs I’ve done as [00:38:50] a dentist. Not that many because I quit at whatever it was, but but out of those jobs, [00:38:55] I think back, and I think I learned this from that guy. I learned that I learned not to [00:39:00] do this from that person. Yeah. Mhm. Um, and I’m sure, you know, he’s great on clinical [00:39:05] because he is he’s one of those guys who likes to do a lot of everything.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh he loves clinical. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But what [00:39:10] I was going to say was try and learn the other side from someone like Rajiv, you know, because, um, he [00:39:15] seems to do it sort of effortlessly from the outside. I don’t know whether he’s like a swan. He’s, like, running [00:39:20] quickly under the water.

Yewande Oduwole: No, he’s not bothered. He he just does things. And I think we all kind of look at him. [00:39:25] Oh, he just gets on with it. And he loves his work. And I’ve learned so much [00:39:30] in that practice. Does he go for awards? No. So I actually applied for the practice. [00:39:35] So I put together a presentation for best team. No [00:39:40] input from Rajiv. But do you see what I mean?

Payman Langroudi: So something like that. He could win an award? Yeah, I’m sure if he went [00:39:45] for it, he’d execute on that as well. Right.

Yewande Oduwole: But just not bothered. Yeah. And this [00:39:50] is the thing you can. It just depends how you like. If you’re not bothered and you know you’re doing good dentistry. You don’t [00:39:55] really need the award. But I thought this is a great team. I’m going to put together a presentation. And we [00:40:00] ended up winning. So. But you did win. Yeah we won.

Payman Langroudi: And is it a happy team?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. [00:40:05] Honestly, I love my team. And I think this is why I’ve stayed in the practice for three years now, going on four [00:40:10] years, like, me and my nurse were like yin and yang. She. I basically trained she’s [00:40:15] basically like a dentist. So if my rubber dam is slightly [00:40:20] not on properly, or if, you know I haven’t done the last bit of polishing, she’d call me [00:40:25] up on it. She’ll be like, oh, you wonder, you haven’t done this, or we’ll both look at it together. [00:40:30] So I love the fact that I think it’s so important to have a good nurse by your side. [00:40:35] And she we constantly build each other up. She started not knowing how to speak [00:40:40] proper English, so I helped her with her English. And where’s she from? She’s from Romania. Simona. So [00:40:45] we we we really we’ve grown together. And I think there’s a beauty in having someone. [00:40:50] You work, you’re in a room with your nurse every all the time, you know. So it’s so important to have that [00:40:55] relationship where they can call you out. And I like that. I’m like, please call me out if [00:41:00] you think there’s something that’s you call your patients. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: So do [00:41:05] you call them patients or does your nurse or does reception?

Yewande Oduwole: So I, I [00:41:10] need to get out of this habit, but I’ll stay behind after work. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Call [00:41:15] everyone from the previous day or that day.

Yewande Oduwole: Not everyone. But, like, if I.

Payman Langroudi: Wanted 2 or 3 key people.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. See how they’re going, and [00:41:20] they really appreciate it. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I used to get my nurse to do it.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, but it’s [00:41:25] different when it comes from the dentist.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, of course, of course. But what was amazing was how much she enjoyed that job. [00:41:30] Yeah. She used to love that job. You know, she said people are so appreciative when you call them 100%. [00:41:35] And and you know, it came down to it started off with me saying, all right, call this guy, this [00:41:40] guy and that guy. And then obviously you can decide who to call like that. And then she used to [00:41:45] come in every day and tell me, oh, this guy was so happy that I called him. It’s a lovely thing.

Yewande Oduwole: It’s nice. [00:41:50] And patients really, really appreciate that. But then it gets to a point where I’d be at work because [00:41:55] we work in shifts at two green, 2 to 8.

Payman Langroudi: 8 to 2. Yes, 8 to 2, two eight.

Yewande Oduwole: Exactly. [00:42:00] So Monday I do 2 to 8. Tuesday I do 730 in the morning to eight at night. Well, Wednesday [00:42:05] is my day off, which is today, Thursday 730 in the morning till 130.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:42:10] it’s are you a four day week?

Yewande Oduwole: Four days. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I like that [00:42:15] too.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. You need a day to just. Yeah. Do stuff like this. Um, [00:42:20] so I’d be at work. Let’s say I finish at eight. Sometimes I won’t leave till like 10 or 11 because I’m doing [00:42:25] treatment plans. Extra stuff. Treatment plans, calling patients. But then I [00:42:30] like to leave knowing it’s done. I don’t like to bring things from the next day into another day [00:42:35] that really messes me up. I like to do what’s needed on that day and [00:42:40] then get it done. So yeah, the shift patterns at the moment, everyone’s like, oh, how do you do it? But it works. [00:42:45] Right now I feel like I haven’t got a family yet, so I can afford to be [00:42:50] at work till that time. But obviously there’s going to be a time where it’s not going to be sustainable. [00:42:55]

Payman Langroudi: What kind of dentistry do you do? Is it all cosmetic? [00:43:00]

Yewande Oduwole: No. So I do a lot of general dentistry. Cosmetic dentistry. I like [00:43:05] to be good at all the basics. So I love restorative dentistry I [00:43:10] love endo. Do you. Yeah, I really I actually do. I actually considered going down the endo route, but [00:43:15] um yeah I love it. Endo um. [00:43:20]

Payman Langroudi: Do you take out wisdom teeth?

Yewande Oduwole: So that’s, that’s my limitation. The extractions. Yeah, [00:43:25] yeah. Surgical implants, that kind of stuff. Yeah. That’s [00:43:30] that’s not my forte, but restorative. Onlays. Um, Endo. [00:43:35]

Payman Langroudi: Are you getting more comprehensive as well? Like, are you doing more than sort of single tooth [00:43:40] quadrant. Have you done any, like, full mouth stuff or.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, definitely. Those are my favourite cases. Cases? [00:43:45] Yeah. Where you’re able to. Definitely. Yeah. That’s good I [00:43:50] feel the thing is you need mentors to help you with these kind of things. So [00:43:55] I’ve completed a diploma in restorative and aesthetic Dentistry, which won a [00:44:00] Smile Academy, Gin and Kirsch and many courses. So I think [00:44:05] by doing these courses, developing my skills, you gain the confidence to do these kind of tough cases. [00:44:10] And obviously there’s going to be times where things don’t go to plan. That’s where you lean on [00:44:15] your mentors and people to advise you on what to do. Would you say.

Payman Langroudi: To a patient when [00:44:20] it’s the first time you’re doing something? Do you tell them?

Yewande Oduwole: Obviously you want [00:44:25] them to have confidence in you like it’s a massive problem.

Payman Langroudi: We were thinking talking about this. I was talking to Simon Thackeray [00:44:30] about this yesterday. Yeah. First time you’re doing something, you’ve got to do it right so [00:44:35] that you get to your second time or your third time or your fourth time. Yeah. I found back in [00:44:40] my day I telling the patient that I have a mentor was [00:44:45] was really the right move. But you need a mentor in order to do [00:44:50] that. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: No. As a foundation dentist, I’d always say, you know, my supervisor will come and check this, but [00:44:55] when you’re a few years qualified and let’s say you’re just trying out this new thing you’ve learned on a course. Yeah. [00:45:00] To tell the patient that. Oh, by the way, I’ve just.

Payman Langroudi: But when was the first time you did six veneers on [00:45:05] someone?

Yewande Oduwole: Probably my first year out of foundation. Yeah, yeah. To [00:45:10] be fair, I told the patient because it was one of my friend’s friends. So I said, by the way, you’re [00:45:15] the first person I’m doing this for. And I think because she knew [00:45:20] the kind of person I was, I’m a bit of a perfectionist where I wouldn’t leave you with rubbish. [00:45:25] I would make sure that I’d get it right. So she had faith in me. But [00:45:30] if it’s someone that I just didn’t know at all, it might be a bit different. Um, so yeah, [00:45:35] I did that and she brought me more patience after that, after I did her case.

Payman Langroudi: I think one thing, [00:45:40] one thing as a dentist, right, is some people make the mistake of thinking that [00:45:45] confidence breeds confidence in the like. Let’s [00:45:50] say you’re looking at a case. Yeah. Well, let’s leave it out of dentistry for a moment. [00:45:55] Yeah. If I’m talking to a lawyer and I ask him a question, one of the responses [00:46:00] I respect the most is I don’t know.

Yewande Oduwole: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I’d much [00:46:05] rather hear, I don’t know in a way. When someone says I don’t know it means you [00:46:10] do know what you do know. And you do know what you don’t know and you don’t know the answer [00:46:15] to this question. Yeah. Where you get the feeling that this guy’s just answering all my questions and reading [00:46:20] it off. Sometimes I’m thinking, is, is this guy’s timing just brilliant? You know, is he just talking? [00:46:25] It’s just, honey, just come out of his mouth, and I’m worried. I’m more worried about the guy who’s answering [00:46:30] everything than the person who says. I don’t know a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And so now [00:46:35] let’s translate it to dentistry. You don’t need to, to to project this. Fully [00:46:40] confident has all the answers. Thing is that that’s [00:46:45] not the key. And I’ve had some top world renowned experts here. Yeah. And [00:46:50] you know, they say the same thing when you tell people all the things that could go wrong [00:46:55] and what you think particularly might go wrong here, that’s not going to put the guy off. That’s going to make [00:47:00] the guy think this guy knows what he’s talking about. This guy’s got some experience, you know, like so. [00:47:05] But as a young dentist, it’s a troubling thing. Yeah. The other thing I noticed young dentists [00:47:10] make a mistake is they they almost download everything in their head [00:47:15] to the patient. Mhm. And that’s not your job. Your job is not to tell the patient [00:47:20] everything in your head. Your job is to say the right things in the right way to that [00:47:25] person. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: You should not overload the patient with too many options. Yeah. [00:47:30] Um, one of the courses that I feel has been really important in my career. Exam cycle [00:47:35] run by Asif Saeed. He teaches on that course to communicate [00:47:40] the right recommended option for the patient, rather than saying everything, everything [00:47:45] because they’re going to leave thinking, oh my gosh, what do I do? They’re still going to leave more confused [00:47:50] than when they came in. So I agree. And on that note of being a [00:47:55] young dentist and you know what? You don’t know, I’m very happy to say I don’t know this. I [00:48:00] need to seek help. I remember when I first started posting on Instagram, I was [00:48:05] so nervous to post my cases because I knew they weren’t polished, perfect, and I know a lot of young dentists. [00:48:10] They struggle with posting their work online because of the critique I’m. [00:48:15]

Payman Langroudi: Used to that, you know, like I’m amazed how few do know.

Yewande Oduwole: Because dentists are worried. [00:48:20]

Payman Langroudi: About other dentists.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, you know, you don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Mini smile makeover. We always have 30 delegates. [00:48:25] Yeah, we have a marketing bit. We always ask who here has a dental Instagram [00:48:30] page.

Yewande Oduwole: Maybe four because people are scared. And my favourite thing [00:48:35] to say is feel the fear, but do it anyway. Yeah. If you let fear paralyse [00:48:40] you, you’re not going to do it. And a lot of you know that saying the richest place is [00:48:45] the graveyard, because there’s just a lot of dreams that have just died there because of fear and what other people think. I [00:48:50] posted cases, if you look on my Instagram, if you go far back, there are cases I look at and I’m [00:48:55] like, oh, I should really delete this. But that was me. At a time where I was growing, I [00:49:00] was learning, I wrote a paragraph saying, oh, I could have done this better. And it was a reflection. And I think [00:49:05] the reason why people started following my journey is because I was just unapologetically myself [00:49:10] and just, I know I’m not here yet, but I am constantly improving, constantly [00:49:15] learning, constantly growing. So I think if you can be humble enough to know your limitations. [00:49:20]

Payman Langroudi: But what’s really interesting is that even some of the top guys [00:49:25] suffer with this dipesh Suffers with it. Hee hee hee. [00:49:30] Won’t like post.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Uh, and by the way, even less like [00:49:35] George the Dentist. He will. He will post here. But even George’s dentist. [00:49:40] There’s a guy better than him, right? So he could have that fear.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, of course, [00:49:45] but there’s always going to be someone better than you.

Payman Langroudi: But Kunal kind of gets around [00:49:50] this mentally in his own head. As in, this isn’t for dentists. This is for patients. [00:49:55] Yeah. And I don’t care what dentists think about it. But. And some people have that sort of, uh, that, [00:50:00] that chip in their head that can just switch off. Yeah. That anxiety.

Yewande Oduwole: It’s about your why [00:50:05] at the end of the day, when I started my page, I my why was to inspire students [00:50:10] and help them with their dental school applications. So a lot of my things [00:50:15] that I was posting was to help students then. Now it’s turned into, you know, I want to [00:50:20] speak to patients because when people come to see me, they’ve already got a glimpse of my personality [00:50:25] and who I am. From my page, I describe Instagram as like, if you’re going to a restaurant [00:50:30] and you’re going to look on their page to see, to get an expectation of what.

Payman Langroudi: You’re getting, the food.

Yewande Oduwole: Whatever, exactly. [00:50:35] So for dentists having your Instagram page, okay, you might want to post for [00:50:40] dentists to help other dentists clinically. But then again you may want to post for patients [00:50:45] so they know what to expect. A little preview into who you are. I want [00:50:50] a dentist, a patient to feel like they know me before they’ve stepped into my.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:50:55] what percentage of your new patients come from your Instagram? Is it [00:51:00] a large number a month or so? Are we talking 1 or 2?

Yewande Oduwole: So obviously, because [00:51:05] my Instagram is largely was set up for students and dentists, not really. But now I’m [00:51:10] seeing a lot more from like TikTok and um, yeah. So I get a couple a month from [00:51:15] like Instagram.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about TikTok. Yeah, because I’m having real [00:51:20] trouble with TikTok. I adore TikTok, adore it myself as a as a user. [00:51:25] I’m on it all the time. Too much? Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: Really? What do you watch on TikTok?

Payman Langroudi: Whatever.

Yewande Oduwole: You [00:51:30] know what I mean. The For You page.

Payman Langroudi: My TikTok will give me, like, crap that your TikTok won’t give you. But [00:51:35] like, it’s funny because sometimes it gives you something that you don’t even know you were into. Yeah. Like [00:51:40] I’m into bent cops. I didn’t know that, but I am. He keeps [00:51:45] sending it to me and I keep watching it.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh my gosh.

Payman Langroudi: But dentistry on TikTok. Yeah. [00:51:50] Like dentistry on Instagram. We all kind of know what it is before and afters. It’s pretty stuff. Whatever. Then [00:51:55] on TikTok, to me so far, like the people who’ve got some traction with it, they’re [00:52:00] either, um, education sort of videos with, you know, pointing to stuff [00:52:05] behind you on a green screen or some sort of salacious kind of turkey [00:52:10] teeth story. You know something? Don’t do this. I’m a dentist. I’m telling you, don’t do this. [00:52:15] And the. And I’ve got a team of people working on TikTok for enlightened. Yeah, we’ve [00:52:20] got three agencies working on it right now. One on the shop, one on the grid one. It’s [00:52:25] a pain in the ass but getting nowhere with it, getting nowhere with it. Having real difficulty [00:52:30] having a brand work on TikTok. And then I see other brands exploding on TikTok. Yeah, so [00:52:35] I’m not going to stop, just like all of social media. Yeah, you kind of keep going, keep going 100%. [00:52:40] But what are your insights on TikTok?

Yewande Oduwole: Tiktok is all about organic content. Yeah, [00:52:45] people don’t like to see curated, well polished things on TikTok. You literally [00:52:50] have to just talk to the camera. I remember I was making a video. I was just walking to my friend’s [00:52:55] house, and I just wanted to make a video on, oh, you shouldn’t rinse your mouth out with toothpaste after [00:53:00] brushing. Yeah. Just simple information like that. And that got loads of views. So [00:53:05] I think when you make it too curated, people will swipe off. People love real stories [00:53:10] on TikTok. And what I.

Payman Langroudi: Love about it is it’s the content [00:53:15] is the driver of the reach. Yeah, it’s not about followers.

Yewande Oduwole: No. [00:53:20]

Payman Langroudi: That’s amazing. You can reach.

Yewande Oduwole: So many people. Like, you know.

Payman Langroudi: You just met Richard. Yeah. The [00:53:25] videographer. I would say Richard, you know. Dude, like, literally, you could reach 30 million people [00:53:30] if you made the right video. Yeah. It’s not about followers.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, people adore that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:53:35]

Yewande Oduwole: No, people like Shaadi Onkar. Yeah, they’re out there. Rona.

Payman Langroudi: Rona says she’s [00:53:40] getting much more growth out of tick tock.

Yewande Oduwole: Tick tock is the new thing now. Um, I feel like Instagram [00:53:45] is, you know, polished work or where people go to kind of get a gist of who you [00:53:50] are. But tick tock, that’s where you can get new clients. I had someone come and see me from Tick Tock [00:53:55] because they felt that they watched my video and they said, I felt like, yeah, I can relate to you [00:54:00] and you’re someone that I’d want to treat me. Um, so is that.

Payman Langroudi: The kind of video you’re doing? Sort of the educational [00:54:05] type educational? I’m a dentist. This is what I think. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: Also, like patients speaking [00:54:10] about their treatment.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. So it works. That works before, like, I [00:54:15] like.

Payman Langroudi: Reveal.

Yewande Oduwole: Reveal videos. People love that. People like to see [00:54:20] what’s going on behind the scenes in the surgery. So yeah, TikTok. If [00:54:25] I think a lot of people thought TikTok was just about dancing, I remember when it first came out, it’s not. That was years ago, but [00:54:30] it’s changed. It’s evolving. And social media is, I think not every dentist needs social [00:54:35] media. I always say this just because you don’t have social media doesn’t mean you’re not a great dentist. [00:54:40] It’s one of these things where the best dentist probably don’t even have social media, but it’s just getting yourself [00:54:45] out there and putting yourself on the forefront for people to find you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. So so when we [00:54:50] ask at the course, we say, who here has Dental, Instagram, whatever. [00:54:55] And four people put their hands up and then is it. Who here has Instagram. Yeah. [00:55:00] Who here goes on Instagram.

Yewande Oduwole: And everyone puts their hand. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And that’s the thing right. [00:55:05] And like I’m looking at the number of hours I spend on TikTok personally. Yeah. You know like it.

Yewande Oduwole: Takes [00:55:10] 1.

Payman Langroudi: To 3 a.m.. I’m rotting my brain. I’m flicking through.

Yewande Oduwole: I’ve got a timer to [00:55:15] say how long I can be on Instagram for. Oh, really? My phone shuts off after, like an hour. What’s that [00:55:20] called? It’s just timer. You go on your iPhone.

Payman Langroudi: And just put a timer.

Yewande Oduwole: On. You put a timer? No, you. You can [00:55:25] put a restriction on an app. Oh. Can you. To tell you that you have to.

Payman Langroudi: Show me how. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: Because it [00:55:30] can be a slippery slope. Sometimes I’ll just post and I’ll come off it because I just don’t want to spend all [00:55:35] day scrolling. Yeah. Um, so, yeah. No. Instagram, TikTok. [00:55:40] The world of that and a lot of dentists have been actually coming to me to get them to help [00:55:45] with their social media. So currently I’m helping a dentist with his course, setting up his social media, [00:55:50] um, creating a presence on there. So are you charging him? Yeah, [00:55:55] because it’s my time. But, um.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about all of that then. Um, you’ve got a [00:56:00] couple of brand deals going. Going on, right? You’re working for Colgate? Yeah, [00:56:05] for dental protection. Mhm. Like, what is that brand ambassador. [00:56:10] Mhm.

Yewande Oduwole: So.

Payman Langroudi: So what do you have to do. What’s your side of the deal. What [00:56:15] do you have to do.

Yewande Oduwole: Obviously these companies, they want to, um, put themselves [00:56:20] out there. They want to have a positive, um, reputation so [00:56:25] they find someone that fits with their brand morals. And I like Colgate. Um, [00:56:30] and then you do a video together and.

Payman Langroudi: But what is it like a number of videos per [00:56:35] month. So you have a contract?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. So you have a contract? It might be for reals. Yeah. [00:56:40] Um, it might be. You need to do this, uh, content for their page, [00:56:45] a TikTok video, um, a podcast. So we call it activity. [00:56:50] So the activity that you do, um, you get paid for it.

Payman Langroudi: And then are we going to see [00:56:55] you on, on a, on a Colgate ad? Is that.

Yewande Oduwole: Your dream.

Payman Langroudi: Come true?

Yewande Oduwole: Uh, maybe one day. [00:57:00] Maybe one day. Colgate. They don’t really do TV ads. It’s more Sensodyne that does that. [00:57:05] Um, but yeah, I like that stuff. I’m. Why not.

Payman Langroudi: Why not, why not? [00:57:10] I mean, you got into it yourself because of your channel, right?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: There’s nothing wrong with [00:57:15] it. And then the protection. Similar. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: So I’ve done YouTube videos for [00:57:20] them. Um, obviously they want to try and get a lot of young dentists to to join them. [00:57:25] Um, and just because they need someone that has been in that position themselves, [00:57:30] if you just get, I don’t know, Mandy, from the dental protection team to, to say that it’s not [00:57:35] going to hit home the way it would somebody that’s gone through it. Um, and because I do a lot of [00:57:40] work with students and young dentists anyway, I guess I was their perfect poster girl. [00:57:45] And likewise, there’s other students as well that are following that same trajectory. Getting [00:57:50] the sponsorship deals. And I think with dentistry, there’s enough room for everyone to there’s so [00:57:55] many companies out there that need people to represent them in a positive way. Um, I do a lot of work [00:58:00] with my colleague Chinwe. So she’s doing stuff with. Um, do I remember there was a time where I was with dental protection. [00:58:05] She was promoting stuff for do so. Um, it wasn’t like a rivalry sort [00:58:10] of thing, but it’s just we you both have like a unique sense of [00:58:15] of where you can communicate with people. And I think that’s what the companies like for sure. [00:58:20] So yeah, I love I love doing that stuff.

Payman Langroudi: And you, I mean, you’ve been qualified. How long?

Yewande Oduwole: Four [00:58:25] years. 20.

Payman Langroudi: 20 I just feel like you’re so very connected in [00:58:30] four years.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, I was going to networking events as a student. Really? [00:58:35] I was a b, c d student rep. Oh. Were you? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I always tell those guys like that. [00:58:40] That is a good thing to be, man.

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. Any students listening, be involved. Yeah. [00:58:45] You know, I signed up for RDP. They were doing student awards. It’s funny [00:58:50] because.

Payman Langroudi: When I was a student, I wasn’t involved in anything. Nothing. I almost stayed away from [00:58:55] everything. And now my my advice to all students is get involved in all these.

Yewande Oduwole: Things.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:59:00] you can see it. You know, I remember Simon Chard was the the BCD rep. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see what [00:59:05] that did for him. You know, like, by the way, he’s a great guy.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. Of course.

Payman Langroudi: But you know, when you [00:59:10] watch that trajectory of second year dental student to president of the BCD and all [00:59:15] the things that he’s managed to do, you just realise all getting jobs. Yeah, 100%. [00:59:20] It’s so important for getting jobs and it’s who you.

Yewande Oduwole: Surround yourself with. So from that I was able [00:59:25] to connect with different dentists, get an insight into what’s going on. Even one of my YouTube videos [00:59:30] that I put so much work into, I got 30 dentists together to give advice to [00:59:35] students, dentists from America, dentists from the UK, and from [00:59:40] that video alone it was able to reach so many people and I was that student. [00:59:45] I was annoying student. I’ll message them and be like, hi, can I get you my YouTube video? Can I talk to you about this? I’d [00:59:50] be on the case, and I think there’s a point where you can’t ignore that person. So even [00:59:55] like in my fourth year of dental school, I went to, I messaged Rhona, can I [01:00:00] shadow you at Chelsea? And she she had me there for during my year we made a YouTube video together. [01:00:05] Um, I wanted to just get involved. I’m [01:00:10] the kind of person where it’s like, If I’m in this profession, I go at it like all in. [01:00:15] Can’t be half hearted. So as a student, I’d be the annoying [01:00:20] student as well when I was recording videos to be on my YouTube.

Yewande Oduwole: I remember a lot of my [01:00:25] colleagues would look at me like, what’s she doing? Like, I almost felt embarrassed. The fact that I was vlogging [01:00:30] and doing all these things because nobody else was doing that. I almost [01:00:35] got in trouble. I actually got in trouble. One of the deans, um, took me to a side and said, oh, we see you’re doing this [01:00:40] video content because Dental schools there can be quite strict about obviously not [01:00:45] confidentiality. But after we had a talk about what I was actually doing it for, they [01:00:50] got it. Yeah. They realised actually she’s not doing anything. I [01:00:55] was in actual fact, I was building up the reputation of the uni and um, [01:01:00] so yeah, I think even though it’s not something normal, sometimes you’ve just got [01:01:05] to go against the grain And I believe in serendipity. Things. Good things [01:01:10] happen to you without you trying. Just putting yourself out there and just waiting for the opportunities [01:01:15] to come. Because if you don’t, you never know what will happen.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:01:20] you, you know, I struggle with, um, teeth whitening, [01:01:25] getting dentists to talk to their patients about teeth whitening.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:01:30] You’d be amazed. You’d be amazed the number of dentists who never do never mention it to [01:01:35] their patients. I know you use enlighten all that. What do you do to get [01:01:40] patients to go ahead with teeth whitening? Do you do you have a routine? Is it something in your examination [01:01:45] that mentions shade? Yes.

Yewande Oduwole: So I’ll take I’ll bring out my shade guide. Yeah. [01:01:50] And during the exam I’d actually take a shade of their teeth.

Payman Langroudi: Yes. And [01:01:55] then mention it to them.

Yewande Oduwole: I’ll leave it on the side for them to look at. Because obviously [01:02:00] when you’re doing the check-up patients are listening. Yeah. So then at the end.

Payman Langroudi: So what do you say to your nurse [01:02:05] shade A3.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. So they’re like, oh what’s that? And then they see the shade [01:02:10] guide by their side and they’re like, oh, I heard you mention this colour, where am [01:02:15] I on that scale? And I said, okay, during your clinical examination you are this colour. And [01:02:20] then they’re asking me, oh, how can I get to this colour? Um, and I also asked them, are you happy [01:02:25] with the colour of your teeth at the moment? So if you don’t have the conversation as a dentist, you’re the only one [01:02:30] qualified to have this conversation with them. If someone from the street said, are you happy with the colour of your teeth, [01:02:35] it would be offensive. So when you’re when you’re in the in the check-up, the check-up is the most [01:02:40] important thing because they trust you and you’re not saying it in a way that [01:02:45] you need whitening. It’s just something you’ve observed. And from [01:02:50] there, that’s where a lot of patients actually, I would like to be whiter and and natural [01:02:55] white, I think is the most important thing, because I think people have this misconception about whitening [01:03:00] that you’re going to be like, have Simon Cowell, Rylan Clark. Teeth [01:03:05] whitening, especially a lot of older patients. They’re kind of whitening has this [01:03:10] stigma. So I think when you explain to them we’re just getting your teeth to how they were [01:03:15] when you were in your 20s.

Payman Langroudi: I found with older patients saying to them, it’s really [01:03:20] good for your gums. Mhm. Almost, almost gives them an excuse to go ahead. Like like [01:03:25] they, they want to go ahead. Right. But they can’t admit like they said older man. Yeah. Yeah. [01:03:30] Can’t admit to wanting a whiter smile. Can’t admit it because they.

Yewande Oduwole: Think it’s being [01:03:35] vain. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: They can’t like looking vain in your 70s as a British guy. Just [01:03:40] doesn’t feel right. When I used to say to them. Oh, by the way, it’s good for [01:03:45] your gut. Oh, good for my gums. Suddenly that’s like. That’s something that can hang it on. And then. And then [01:03:50] they go for it. I never it’s funny, I never used to teach people to talk about the health benefits of [01:03:55] teeth whitening because it’s so obvious. Everyone wants white teeth. But there are nuances. There are times where [01:04:00] you should. And then I realised loads of people sell aligners, Invisalign and Ortho [01:04:05] based on health benefits, which is being like 100% [01:04:10] honest here. Like you wouldn’t go ahead with aligners if there wasn’t [01:04:15] an aesthetic benefit.

Yewande Oduwole: You’d be surprised there are patients.

Payman Langroudi: You as a patient, go [01:04:20] through the risk and time and cost of aligners to make your teeth easier [01:04:25] to brush, or whatever the hell they sell it on.

Yewande Oduwole: Obviously, if you’re if you’re if your teeth are, you know, crowded, [01:04:30] of course you want the aesthetic component, the.

Payman Langroudi: Aesthetic component, 80% of [01:04:35] it. And then but then there’s.

Yewande Oduwole: Functionality as well. I’ve had patients.

Payman Langroudi: 20% of functionality. But when I listen to dentists [01:04:40] talking to patients, yeah, the 20% is taking centre stage.

Yewande Oduwole: Because [01:04:45] people need a reason to justify it. You know.

Payman Langroudi: As dentists we love saying you need and we really [01:04:50] hate saying, would you like, you know, it’s part of our culture. [01:04:55] You need, you need, you need, you need, you need. And you know, as we’re saying that all day, Um, but [01:05:00] it’s funny when people tell me, oh, I don’t want to embarrass my patient. I get it. Yeah, yeah. But, [01:05:05] you know, every time you tell a patient you’re not brushing your teeth properly, you’re embarrassing the hell out of them. Yeah, [01:05:10] you’re embarrassing, but you.

Yewande Oduwole: Wouldn’t say it like. Like you’d. You’re there to educate [01:05:15] them at the end of the day. And I think a lot of people, when you talk about aligners, the functionality [01:05:20] part actually sells big part. No.

Payman Langroudi: Like it sells you [01:05:25] people can’t.

Yewande Oduwole: You know, there’s times where people’s occlusion doesn’t allow them to to eat properly. [01:05:30] Yeah. You get it, you get it. I get.

Payman Langroudi: It. Let’s let’s get on to the darker part of the of the pod. [01:05:35]

Yewande Oduwole: Oh.

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about clinical mistakes so that we can all learn from [01:05:40] each other’s. It’s not often talked about, but what comes to mind [01:05:45] if I say clinical error or if I say most difficult patient? Like sometimes [01:05:50] those two things are the same thing sometimes. Pick whichever you like. [01:05:55]

Yewande Oduwole: The clinical error Was on the most difficult patient that [01:06:00] I’ve had. There you go. So it was a double whammy. I. It was. I [01:06:05] was two months in to my associate role. Two months. It [01:06:10] happened in that time. And I had just come off this wave of the whole, [01:06:15] um, adhesive dentistry bonding zirconia. Um, professor Marcus [01:06:20] Blatt’s talking about, you know, we can bond zirconia now. And this patient, they needed a bridge. [01:06:25] 3 to 3. Um, and usually people do conventional bridges [01:06:30] where they prep the threes. But I decided, oh, I now know how to bond. I’m going to bond [01:06:35] it. I’m going to do wings.

Payman Langroudi: Resin retained.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. From 3 to 3 which is [01:06:40] distance. It’s a distance. And it’s a big job um especially bonding [01:06:45] zirconia. But I had it was zirconia wing. Zirconia wing. Oh.

Payman Langroudi: What [01:06:50] heroics.

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. But obviously I’d spoken to Rajeev about [01:06:55] this and he, he said, yeah, you can do it. So I was like, feeling confident. Yeah, I can do it.

Payman Langroudi: Um, prep. [01:07:00]

Yewande Oduwole: Prep plus, prep plus.

Payman Langroudi: Go on then.

Yewande Oduwole: So I went through my protocol, [01:07:05] you know, all the steps, bonded it, and [01:07:10] it was great for a few months. It was it was fantastic. It stayed on. And then [01:07:15] I get a call and she said, she calls in like my [01:07:20] bridge is broken. And I literally my head, I was thinking, oh my gosh, I’ve done all the bonding, what’s gone wrong? [01:07:25] And when she came in, it had actually broken on the connector [01:07:30] part. So my wings were actually still stuck on, but the connector part had snapped. And [01:07:35] I remember obviously it’s her front teeth, so she was fuming. And this is where [01:07:40] patient management really had to come in. I was literally like managing her [01:07:45] like trying to calm her down. And I had to speak to the lab because [01:07:50] I was like, why is it broken? Because I was like, clearly my my wings are still on. It must be something to do with [01:07:55] the the.

Payman Langroudi: Flex, right? Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: So then they made another one.

Payman Langroudi: You [01:08:00] went resin retained again?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah. Okay. Because we [01:08:05] didn’t want to prep the threes. So we made another one and it [01:08:10] broke again. That lasted you know a few months again it was like a year or so. And [01:08:15] then it broke again. And then that’s when we had to look into occlusion. And that’s when I was like, oh she [01:08:20] hasn’t got enough posterior support, which is why this part of the bridge keeps on breaking. [01:08:25] Yeah. So obviously I spoke to Rajiv about it and we really delved into it. [01:08:30] And I think if I went back and did that again, I would not have suggested that I would have told her to [01:08:35] get her posterior occlusion better before we went on to doing that bridge. I think I [01:08:40] just got really excited. You know, when you learn something new and you’re just like, I’m gonna try it out. Got [01:08:45] excited. But, you know, one.

Payman Langroudi: One big learning point from that era. Yeah. Is when something [01:08:50] breaks, your first point of call shouldn’t be the lab to say why did [01:08:55] it break? Your first point of.

Yewande Oduwole: Call should be.

Payman Langroudi: Occlusion.

Yewande Oduwole: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Stuff breaks due to [01:09:00] occlusion. Yeah, I’m sure once in a while, stuff breaks because the lab puts a crack in something or whatever. [01:09:05] But the vast majority of stuff breaks due to occlusion, and so occlusion is the first place to look.

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. [01:09:10] But when that happens to you, you’re looking for like, oh my gosh, yeah, it wasn’t me. But I’ve learned [01:09:15] so much now.

Payman Langroudi: Now to what ended up happening in that case. Then you did the posterior support. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: So we she [01:09:20] now, you know, had posterior support and you know she’s she’s good.

Payman Langroudi: Now and a conventional bridge or [01:09:25] you’d still resin bonding.

Yewande Oduwole: The bond is still bonded. The wings are still on there. It’s [01:09:30] literally the reason why it kept on breaking was because of her occlusion. So now she knows she needs that posterior support. [01:09:35] What are you doing?

Payman Langroudi: Like drilling off the zirconia wing to make a new one?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah, so [01:09:40] a nightmare. I know, so the bonding worked, thank God, but it was just the occlusion that failed. So [01:09:45] biggest lesson? That’s where everything starts from. Occlusion.

Payman Langroudi: The patient say, were they pissed off? [01:09:50] Of course.

Yewande Oduwole: She was.

Payman Langroudi: Did she have to spend more money to get the back?

Yewande Oduwole: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:09:55] was she cool with that?

Yewande Oduwole: Of course not.

Payman Langroudi: But how did you work it out?

Yewande Oduwole: I [01:10:00] had to. This is where Rajiv stepped in. We spoke to her together. [01:10:05] Yeah. Um. And that’s where I think, because I had built a good relationship with her [01:10:10] in the beginning. She trusted me. And I think she could see that I genuinely [01:10:15] wanted to do the best thing for her. And patients don’t sue dentists [01:10:20] they like. Yeah. So I think that’s key. She liked me enough not to to [01:10:25] go down that route. Um, and obviously you stepped in and we were able to get her to [01:10:30] come to an understanding where she realises [01:10:35] that, oh, okay, this is a problem that I need to sort out with my back [01:10:40] teeth. I think we take a lot of ownership for patients problems and we make it [01:10:45] our issue. But it’s important to explain that okay. So due to obviously [01:10:50] you’ve lost these back teeth, we need to get it back to function. She understood that. So yeah [01:10:55] with the help of communication and getting things right, it’s all good. But I remember oh my gosh, for that to [01:11:00] happen in your first few months, it was really it was really big.

Payman Langroudi: Was there a call [01:11:05] to the defence.

Yewande Oduwole: No that I’ve never had touch wood. I don’t even want [01:11:10] to say it now. No, nothing like that has ever happened. But I think it’s because of the [01:11:15] patients can really see that I am trying my absolute hardest for them. [01:11:20] And I think as a patient you can sense that.

Payman Langroudi: Is it a mixed practice. Yeah. [01:11:25] Yeah. So that’s the thing with with private you have time to make that connection. [01:11:30] Whereas in mixed sometimes you haven’t got time, you know, and you’re doing [01:11:35] your very best. And I mean in this situation you could have easily have recommended a fixed fixed bridge. Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: But [01:11:40] I was trying to be conservative, be conservative.

Payman Langroudi: Like, you know, there’s almost like this question of should [01:11:45] you have communicated the fact that you were trying to be conservative. Like, for instance, back to that [01:11:50] question about looking confident. Yeah. In that situation, you can say, look confident, [01:11:55] say, I’m going to do this for you and it’s going to be okay. Or you can say, [01:12:00] I want to do this to you because for you, because I don’t want to drill your teeth, but I’m taking a risk [01:12:05] here. You know, sort of taking this risk. We’re taking this risk together.

Yewande Oduwole: 100%. [01:12:10]

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting. Like, if if it was framed that way, maybe she wouldn’t have been this pissed off. [01:12:15] Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: And I’ve learned. Now.

Payman Langroudi: Now it’s your choice. Like, it’s almost like that, you know. Do [01:12:20] you want. Do you want us to to do this or do you want us to go the other route? You know, like, it’s an interesting [01:12:25] point.

Yewande Oduwole: It shaped the way I discuss risks now. And I will always make sure that [01:12:30] if I know there’s even a chance of this not lasting or going wrong, I will make it absolutely [01:12:35] clear. And after that, I had a patient where she wanted to save her [01:12:40] tooth with, um, an endo. I told her, you know, it may fail, and she had [01:12:45] some perio, but she still wanted to save this tooth, so I did it for her. Eventually it did fail, but she was happy because [01:12:50] she was like, oh, you told me that and I need to sort my gums out. But at the time she wanted [01:12:55] to save this too. So I think now that’s really helped me with my communication before it happens [01:13:00] rather than explaining. Because if you explain at the end it’s an excuse rather [01:13:05] than explaining in the beginning. So come to.

Payman Langroudi: The end of our time, crazily. [01:13:10]

Yewande Oduwole: That went really quickly. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, I’m going to end it with the usual questions. Um, [01:13:15] fantasy dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive? [01:13:20]

Yewande Oduwole: Mhm. So the first person would be [01:13:25] you probably won’t like this answer, but it’s going to be Jesus Christ. Well, no, because I [01:13:30] know at the beginning you said about the faith, but I think because of how much faith has shaped [01:13:35] my life, I really want to sit down and just ask questions about Christ. Yes. [01:13:40] Love. Forgiveness. Um, just get getting insight into how [01:13:45] Jesus lived his life.

Payman Langroudi: Wow.

Yewande Oduwole: Um. Second would be Doctor [01:13:50] Uchenna Okoye.

Payman Langroudi: Really? Yeah.

Yewande Oduwole: Because one.

Payman Langroudi: Of my favourites.

Yewande Oduwole: One [01:13:55] of the last things we said we’d always talk back and forth on Instagram. Yeah. But [01:14:00] she said we’re going to meet up one day for dinner. And she would always be, you know, following [01:14:05] my journey, praising what I’ve been getting up to. And I’d be praising her. But we never got a chance to [01:14:10] have that dinner. So I’d love to just sit down with her and just speak about [01:14:15] her experiences as a black female dentist.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:14:20] I used to have dinners with each other.

Yewande Oduwole: Really? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, the third.

Yewande Oduwole: Third [01:14:25] would either be. I couldn’t pick [01:14:30] but Michelle Obama or Viola Davis. Viola Davis. So [01:14:35] she is an actress. She is, um, a very powerful [01:14:40] woman that she’s gone through a lot of adversities in her life, but she’s she’s made it in the [01:14:45] acting scene, and she’s one of those people that I know if I was to [01:14:50] sit with her, I’ll leave feeling like ten times better about myself and just the confidence [01:14:55] that she exudes, and I love that. Um, I think the [01:15:00] difference. So the last thing I want to say, actually, the difference between smart [01:15:05] people and bold people, is that bold people, they see the glass as [01:15:10] like half full. And if I think the secret to getting everything you want in life is just [01:15:15] to be bold. Smart people will think, oh, what could go wrong? But bold [01:15:20] people will say, well, what could go right? And I think that’s how I’ve tried to live [01:15:25] my life. Just being bold, even when I don’t feel like it.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about the black [01:15:30] Dental network event. That’s.

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, yeah. So we’re having a conference. [01:15:35] Um, next year. Um, black Dental network was founded in 2022. [01:15:40] I run the Instagram page with Doctor Arnold. Um, and [01:15:45] we basically we’ve created a group to fill this gap with [01:15:50] the representation of the lack of sort of black. Less than 2% of dentists in [01:15:55] the UK are black. So going back to what I was talking about, the representation. So we have this [01:16:00] conference that we hold every year between April and May. Um, Chris Hall came to the [01:16:05] last one. He was a speaker and Martin Wayne Dyer as well. So, um, [01:16:10] we’d love for you know, you don’t have to be black to come. Please come support. And it’s just [01:16:15] about bringing everyone together and representation.

Payman Langroudi: So what’s the page called? Black Dental.

Yewande Oduwole: Dental network? [01:16:20] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And were you one of the co-founders of it?

Yewande Oduwole: Oh, so no, doctor Jamie and [01:16:25] Toyin founded it, but we’re I’m part of the the lead, the core group where we delegate [01:16:30] roles. And it’s all non-for-profit. We just do it because we want more representation [01:16:35] in the dental field. So yeah, everyone can feel free to get involved.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. [01:16:40] It’s been lovely talking to you. It really has. I really, really enjoyed it. Thank you. And [01:16:45] I feel like we could have kept going for a long time, but I.

Yewande Oduwole: Know the time.

Payman Langroudi: Is.

Yewande Oduwole: Gone by so [01:16:50] quickly. Thank you so much for having me.

Payman Langroudi: For coming all the way here.

[VOICE]: This [01:16:55] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:17:00] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:17:05] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:17:10] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just [01:17:15] a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say [01:17:20] and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

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