In this engaging episode, longtime dental industry professional Joe Lovett shares his journey from his early days at FMC Publications to founding his own consulting business, Catalyst. 

He discusses the evolution of dental media, the importance of maintaining authentic relationships in business, and his passion for helping young dentists advance their careers. 

Through candid stories and reflections, Joe offers insights into corporate culture, ethical business practices, and the changing landscape of dental industry networking. 

In This Episode

00:03:05 – Fitness and mental health
00:07:40 – Business, sales and ethics
00:10:50 – Early career
00:24:30 – Fast Tracking Your Future
00:33:50 – Dental and social media
00:46:45 – Corporate culture
00:56:50 – Consulting and relationship building
01:17:35 – Career challenges and lessons learned
01:24:10 – Looking ahead
01:27:25 – Closing questions

About Joe Lovett

Joe Lovett is a prominent dental industry consultant and founder of Catalyst, specialising in helping international dental companies enter the UK market and mentoring the next generation of dental professionals. 

With nearly two decades of experience in dental media and business development, beginning at FMC Publications in 2008, Joe has established himself as a trusted advisor and connector within the dental community.

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[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The podcast [00:00:35] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:40] hosts Payman Langroudi [00:00:45] and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Joe Lovett [00:00:50] onto the podcast. Joe is a long time friend of mine. I think I was thinking about it at least 15 [00:00:55] years. We’ve known each other, Joe. At least. Which year did you join FMC?

Joe Lovett: 2008. [00:01:00] So since that’s not right, how can that be right? Was [00:01:05] there a global financial.

Payman Langroudi: Crisis when you.

Joe Lovett: Joined? 2nd of January 2008.

Payman Langroudi: Was [00:01:10] Lehman Brothers going down when you joined?

Joe Lovett: Yeah, quite literally. I finished [00:01:15] university.

Payman Langroudi: Was it your first job out of uni?

Joe Lovett: No, no, no, I had another one where I was telesales [00:01:20] selling corporate expense management, which I don’t even know what that is. [00:01:25] I genuinely did it for a year and I didn’t even know what I was selling. And then just stumbled [00:01:30] across this cool little funky offices in Shenley, [00:01:35] FMC.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So you were you were you were a junior sales guy and then [00:01:40] you became a senior sales guy. Then you became head of sales. I remember at one point, um, [00:01:45] and then moved on after all of that. Sure. Um, where [00:01:50] you started catalyst and catalyst, kind of. It’s an enigma because [00:01:55] on one side of catalyst is sort of introducing products from overseas [00:02:00] to the UK market. And by the way, if there’s anyone who does that the [00:02:05] other way around, I definitely want to talk to you. If you’re if you’re the Joe Lovett of Saudi Arabia, Thailand [00:02:10] or the US, then contact Payman at enlightened. Com. But [00:02:15] introducing.

Joe Lovett: Products. I know the people. Yeah of course introducing.

Payman Langroudi: Products to the UK and [00:02:20] getting the product fast tracked in the UK. If that’s what you want to do you contact catalyst [00:02:25] and then on the other side of it and it’s kind of linked to it as well, is kind of this, this focus you’ve got [00:02:30] on young dentists, influencers, um, [00:02:35] getting propelling people’s careers. And I’m very interested in that too. I’m very, very interested when [00:02:40] you.

Joe Lovett: Do really well.

Payman Langroudi: When I see a spark in someone, someone who really is interested, I really want to manage [00:02:45] to put my turbocharger behind that spark. You know, I don’t know, it gives me pleasure.

Joe Lovett: I would [00:02:50] say you’re really good at identifying, you know, up and comers. You’re like the [00:02:55] Simon Cowell of whitening.

Payman Langroudi: Simon Cowell. It’s a massive [00:03:00] pleasure to have you, buddy. Thank you very.

Joe Lovett: Much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this one for a while. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: A fitness freak these days, I’ve [00:03:05] noticed. Well, so how long has that been going on?

Joe Lovett: Ah, you know, the thing is, [00:03:10] pay is I think I’m like 95% of people, whereby [00:03:15] our default position is to be lazy. Right. I [00:03:20] am inherently a slob, if I’m being honest. So in [00:03:25] order to avoid that, what I do is I put these [00:03:30] things in the diary, these challenges, whether it be marathon or high rocks [00:03:35] or something like that. And then I think, shit, I’m gonna have to do [00:03:40] that at some point.

Payman Langroudi: I can’t make a fool of myself.

Joe Lovett: I don’t want to embarrass myself. Yeah, or I don’t want to let my [00:03:45] team-mates down or whatever. So, yeah. And it’s the same. It’s it applies for [00:03:50] lots of facets of my life as well, with work, with speaking and things like that. So I always [00:03:55] like to like to have something in the diary which I’m cognisant of and I’m like, hey, that’s [00:04:00] coming up, that’s fast approaching. Best not embarrass myself here. So yeah, it’s [00:04:05] it’s really a bit of a failsafe.

Payman Langroudi: So Gary Vee talks about this. You know, he realised that accountability [00:04:10] to someone else is his biggest driver not to himself. [00:04:15] And I feel that personally. So what he did is he got himself a personal trainer [00:04:20] guy um to travel the world with him. And you know, because [00:04:25] he has to turn up at 9 a.m. for that personal trainer, he’s not going to miss that. But if if it [00:04:30] was for himself, he would miss it. And it’s that unlock for you. It seems to be like this calendar thing.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. [00:04:35] Well and similar and team-mates as well. So playing football as well. And, but then I [00:04:40] always do it with a partner. Yeah. Um, for those people I’m such a high rocks [00:04:45] board these days, I have to really pull myself back because people are my family for sure are just like, oh, [00:04:50] Jesus, he’s talking about it again. Um, it’s essentially eight kilometres, [00:04:55] broken down into single kilometres with an exercise in between. So it’s like intense over [00:05:00] an hour.

Payman Langroudi: You run an exercise. Run exercise.

Joe Lovett: Run exercise run exercise. So it’s like sled pull sled push [00:05:05] burpee broad jumps. It’s over an hour of hell and I always do it as a partner. [00:05:10] And I’m always, always super aware of they are training. [00:05:15] They are working hard. They want to do well. And the last thing I want to do is let people down in that respect as well. [00:05:20] So yeah. When did this.

Payman Langroudi: Fitness kick of yours kick in? I mean, was it you’ve always been [00:05:25] that guy and I didn’t know about it or is it recent?

Joe Lovett: I would say the like the last [00:05:30] five years.

Payman Langroudi: Five years.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. Where I’ve really, really kicked [00:05:35] on maybe, maybe in lockdown as well. And we just like nothing to do. Uh, [00:05:40] and I was really it really is an important part of my mental [00:05:45] health as well. So I’m useless at the beginning of the day. I’m not going to lie, until [00:05:50] I’ve done my workout, when I’ve done my done my workout, release those endorphins. Have my shower, [00:05:55] shave. I’m then good to go. I feel like a completely different person. I just feel a lot more [00:06:00] balanced, a lot more energetic. It’s such an important thing. I don’t think [00:06:05] enough people.

Payman Langroudi: Um, make that link between mental and physical health.

Joe Lovett: Massively, [00:06:10] massively. I mean, if you talk to, uh, Gin and Kirsch from small Dental Academy, they’re [00:06:15] exactly the same. They’re converts of that belief as well. I think it’s just [00:06:20] so important.

Payman Langroudi: Simon chard.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, massively. Massively, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But. So when you say mental [00:06:25] health, have you had mental health challenges or are you like on this optimisation.

Joe Lovett: Sort of have [00:06:30] I had mental health challenges.

Payman Langroudi: Wrong podcast.

Joe Lovett: Sorry [00:06:35] wrong.

Payman Langroudi: We do another one.

Joe Lovett: Yeah yeah yeah. Bring Rona. Um uh, [00:06:40] no I would say in the grand scheme of things, no, [00:06:45] but to the point.

Payman Langroudi: That we’ve all had mental health challenges, I guess.

Joe Lovett: Of course, you know, we [00:06:50] have good days, bad days. Bad things happen to us. That’s just life. [00:06:55] Um, I would say a couple of years ago, I was in [00:07:00] a I had, like, a annus horribilis where I made [00:07:05] some mistakes in my personal life, and, um, I didn’t like who I was [00:07:10] at that period of time. And there was a bit of self-loathing, and I was probably in a bit of a [00:07:15] black hole retrospectively. And, you know, at the time, you don’t necessarily realise [00:07:20] it, but retrospectively, you look back at that period and think, that was a bit of a dark period. Um, [00:07:25] but I think by and large, I’m so fortunate that I’m [00:07:30] surrounded by great people, positive people, um, [00:07:35] that it’s never been a long term reoccurring issue.

Payman Langroudi: If I had [00:07:40] to characterise my relationship with you, Joe, in the workspace anyway, I [00:07:45] mean, we’ve had some great times outside of work as well, but in the workspace you bring [00:07:50] a sort of a ethically based sort of paradigm into [00:07:55] selling and into work in general. I mean, there’s been several times where I’ve [00:08:00] tried to buy something off you and you’ve told me not to, and I [00:08:05] really respect that a lot because, you know, generally a salesman will just say sold. Think think about it [00:08:10] later. Yeah, yeah. And and at the same time, I guess maybe because of that attitude, [00:08:15] I remember the biggest sponsorship deal I ever did was with you. And back then [00:08:20] this was I remember it well because it was 2008, 2009, and £10,000 [00:08:25] was a lot of money. It’s still a lot of money. It’s still a lot of money today. But back then [00:08:30] to us, the company that we were and, you know, inflation and all that. £10,000 was a lot [00:08:35] of money. I took a massive risk sponsoring whatever the hell it was. World aesthetic, whatever it was.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, [00:08:40] I remember clearly. I remember who you were with and everything where we were saying.

Payman Langroudi: Can I get this [00:08:45] and can I get that? And and coming back to sand And with my head in my head down, I [00:08:50] spent double what you told me to spend and all of this, um, that ethically [00:08:55] based approach to things. We’ll get to how and why that ended up. Because I’d [00:09:00] like that for my children and stuff. But it must lead you to getting hurt if [00:09:05] someone else isn’t that way. Like, does that happen? Because let me give you an example. Like someone [00:09:10] like Sanj, you know Sanj really well. Yeah. Great guy. The best. He’s he’s one of the most ethical [00:09:15] people I know.

Joe Lovett: And a cool dude as well.

Payman Langroudi: Cool, dude. My best friend is [00:09:20] my is my business partner at enlighten. Pretty much runs the whole show. Um, [00:09:25] sanj. If someone lies to him, it’s a cardinal sin. I [00:09:30] mean, cardinal sin. Now, I don’t like people lying to me, but for [00:09:35] me, it’s not as big a sin as it is for him. Or if someone’s late. [00:09:40]

Joe Lovett: Oh, right. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Like 20s late. It really [00:09:45] offends him. It properly offensive for me doesn’t really [00:09:50] bother me as much. So do you have that that, that sort of thing because you hold yourself up to [00:09:55] a high standard? Does that then disappoint you in others? Sometimes? Sure.

Joe Lovett: But, [00:10:00] you know, make no bones about it. I get it wrong some of the time as well. I [00:10:05] try to be hyper ethical all the time. Um, but, you know, I make mistakes like [00:10:10] any other person as well. Um, yeah. It does. I would say I’m [00:10:15] emotionally invested in what I do and the companies that I work with. I [00:10:20] think, um, when I first started catalyst, I’ve come from [00:10:25] a paid job at FMC, and it’s a bit like a [00:10:30] I’ve got a mortgage and bills to pay and expensive girlfriends at the time. [00:10:35] Um, I’ve got to pay these bills at the end of the month. So you’re a little bit [00:10:40] like, ah, I don’t know about this product or I’m not sure if I necessarily believe in this service or [00:10:45] So this person’s a bit.

Payman Langroudi: You took on things that you today necessarily wouldn’t.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, [00:10:50] exactly. So now, you know, seven years down the line, I can afford to [00:10:55] be a little bit more discerning. I can afford to be a little bit more ethical and go, you know what, I really like that. [00:11:00] I think that’s going to make a difference in practices. I think that is going to make a positive impact to the [00:11:05] Dental community. So I think, you know, it’s all very well [00:11:10] saying, being hyper ethical, but you have to be in a position in order to be able to do so. Mhm. [00:11:15]

Payman Langroudi: Who’s your go to. Like you see a new treatment. Who’s your go to dentist that you go to and say hey what do you think [00:11:20] of this. I’m sure there’s more than one right. Yeah multiple but but when I think of that for myself it’s [00:11:25] someone like Lewis McKenzie. If I wanted to think like get, get, get someone who I feel like [00:11:30] knows the whole the round dentistry in the round. Sure. I would call him bless his soul [00:11:35] and say, what do you think of my new sensitivity idea, for instance? Yeah.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. I mean, what [00:11:40] a great guy. Uh, no, it’s not as much as much as I love those guys. [00:11:45] If they want me, they tend to call me up for their five a side football team. My [00:11:50] go to guys are doctor Amit Patel up in up in Birmingham. Oh really? Yeah. Guy. [00:11:55] I, I’m so indebted to that guy. Um, personally [00:12:00] and professionally as well. He he has been worth his weight in gold for me and [00:12:05] my career and my personal life as well. And what I love so much about Amit is [00:12:10] his particular brutal brand of honesty. Yeah, he’ll go, [00:12:15] don’t bother with that. That’s a load of shit that’s never going to work. People are never going to buy it. [00:12:20] Right. But also is open to going well, you know, have you looked at it from this perspective [00:12:25] and stuff like that. So he’s not that dogmatic or obstinate whereby you [00:12:30] know, this is an opinion and just go, but, but you can have a real frank and honest discussion [00:12:35] with that guy and he will give you his brutal opinion, but but also be able to debate it as [00:12:40] well. So yeah, he’s been immeasurable to Reporter. Any partial success that I’ve had in this sector [00:12:45] for sure.

Payman Langroudi: So that would be your sort of primary data point?

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Then do you go to a few [00:12:50] young ones or whatever or.

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Owners. Practice owners.

Joe Lovett: And don’t forget, my partner [00:12:55] as well is a qualified dentist as well. Yeah, yeah. So, um, [00:13:00] it is quite funny. I’ll say. Hey, what do you think about this product? In fact, I got her [00:13:05] to try a new product on my dad, of all people, the other week. And just to give her feedback [00:13:10] on that. And she always says, you know, how much am I being paid for this? And like, we’ll go [00:13:15] to Wagamamas. We’ll sort it out. Yeah. So she’s she’s.

Payman Langroudi: Great. It’s a funny thing because, you know, I’m a dentist. [00:13:20] Um, and yet I need to call people, you know, because you don’t [00:13:25] know it all. Um, you want different people’s opinions, right? Market opinions as well. [00:13:30]

Joe Lovett: Yeah, absolutely. And and also, a lot of the time, you have the [00:13:35] right idea. I think you think you know it in your mind, but you need a sense checked and [00:13:40] to be able to consolidate it a it a little bit.

Payman Langroudi: I think also there’s like a, you know, you have to be an eternal optimist [00:13:45] to be you or me when when someone shows you something. I [00:13:50] walk around IDs sometimes. Yeah. There’s you’ve been there, right?

Joe Lovett: Yeah. For sure. I’m [00:13:55] looking forward to it again in March.

Payman Langroudi: Just 300 implant companies you’ve never heard of? Yeah. It’s wild. [00:14:00] Let’s imagine I was in the mindset of getting into implants, which I’m not at all yet. But if I was, [00:14:05] if I go and see some of these guys and I see this guy, he’s sort of the number two player [00:14:10] in Brazil. Yeah. And he’s got a good, interesting new idea. Or sometimes [00:14:15] I’m not looking for implants, sometimes looking for completely new treatments that [00:14:20] that aren’t around that people don’t know about. Sometimes you got to sort of just just listen to what the guy says and [00:14:25] people will pull out studies, you know, massive numbers of studies from so and so University, [00:14:30] um, you have to have an optimism that you [00:14:35] can make that work. Absolutely. But then you do need the realism of someone [00:14:40] asking difficult questions before you go and jump in deep and [00:14:45] commit to it. Of course, that’s that’s kind of what what it’s about, [00:14:50] right? Yeah.

Joe Lovett: I couldn’t agree more. I couldn’t agree more. Are you going to IDs?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for [00:14:55] sure. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: Do you recommend it to young dentists? Would you recommend people 100%?

Payman Langroudi: 100%?

Joe Lovett: I, [00:15:00] I’m always recommending it to young dentists, even to just go in and out on the day. Yeah. I think [00:15:05] like the first time I went to my the size of it, I mean, people like spending millions of pounds [00:15:10] on their stands. It’s insane. And the parties are wild and everything like that. [00:15:15] Just the the sheer magnitude of it you can’t comprehend. I think they have something like 150,000 [00:15:20] dentists throughout the course of the week.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. It’s huge. Although, although [00:15:25] that said, I’m more now leaning towards the Dubai show. Okay. Because Dubai [00:15:30] as a town can handle a giant show. Yeah. And Cologne as a town cannot [00:15:35] handle a giant, even though it’s the show centre, one of the show centres of of Germany, right? [00:15:40] Um, you know, all the hotels are full. The the prices are ridiculous.

Joe Lovett: I paid €25 [00:15:45] for a pretzel and a Diet Coke. I nearly keeled over. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: There’s [00:15:50] no taxis, you know.

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Whereas Dubai just can handle it. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: You know, the weather’s [00:15:55] better as well.

Payman Langroudi: The weather’s better. And the Dubai show every year doubles in size like it’s now the biggest show [00:16:00] per year for sure. That happens every.

Joe Lovett: Year. And as well, I feel like you can make a deal at the Dubai show.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:16:05] I agree with you. It’s it’s more like that than ideas [00:16:10] because ideas, you’ve got these sort of global companies and they’re just that everyone’s sort of [00:16:15] is the cup final of like showing off almost.

Joe Lovett: It’s it’s more corporate.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it’s a corporate. [00:16:20] Um, that said, I’ve had many conversations in the Middle [00:16:25] East that have gone nowhere and meetings that people haven’t turned up to and more than [00:16:30] I did from, from, from contacts.

Joe Lovett: I’ve been welcome to my world that I [00:16:35] spent a lot of time in China. How’s that? And, uh, I think we went over there four [00:16:40] times with a view to, uh, doing a licensing agreement to do dentistry. China. That [00:16:45] was Ken Finlayson, who was the owner of FMC. That was always his, like, Mecca, [00:16:50] you know, like, let’s go there. Let’s do this. I spent some time there.

Payman Langroudi: Big thinker. Thinker. Ken. [00:16:55]

Joe Lovett: Oh, yeah. Massive, massive. Um, and I had signed contracts and things like [00:17:00] that and came back and celebrated it. I’m like, hey, guys, lift me on your shoulders and all [00:17:05] this type of stuff. And then, yeah, just came to nothing as well. So that was a steep learning curve.

Payman Langroudi: Which [00:17:10] year was the last time you went to China? Oh, it’s a while ago.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, [00:17:15] I’d say like 20 1617 round.

Payman Langroudi: There because China’s a bit like Dubai [00:17:20] in that sense that it changes every year, like it continues to go forward. And they [00:17:25] they build that and all that.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. Oh my God. Every time I go back, it’s just like a [00:17:30] new building, you know, it’s like another shard, you know, just popped up in the space of six months. [00:17:35] Absolutely wild.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of a kid. Were you.

Joe Lovett: Kid? Yeah. [00:17:40] Um, so I was the oldest of five.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yes. Yes, yes. Your family is very interesting.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. [00:17:45] Like proper, like, sign on the dotted line. Full on Irish Catholic family. So, [00:17:50] like, my dad’s one of seven boys, and I’m one of five, four boys, one girl. [00:17:55] And there’s five of us. The oldest. I was the oldest. Yeah. So I [00:18:00] was like a little man at eight years old, because at that point [00:18:05] I had four younger siblings. I looked today, so I see my brother now, he’s [00:18:10] got two, and it’s just like you go around there. It’s a complete war zone, just with two. And it was [00:18:15] five of us under the age of eight. So I mean, Lord knows how [00:18:20] my mum did it. It was just must have been like a day to day. And we were all [00:18:25] so active as well, you know, like swimming lessons, football here or there, you know, like drama. [00:18:30] Uh, so yeah, your mum.

Payman Langroudi: I guess she was a full time mum, right?

Joe Lovett: Yeah. [00:18:35] She wasn’t working. Yeah. She was. Wasn’t working though. I mean, sorry, so wrong to say [00:18:40] she was working. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But not for pay.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. Not. Not for pay. Yeah. [00:18:45] Just. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And your dad, what did he do?

Joe Lovett: Does he do? My mum and dad [00:18:50] are very different characters. Yeah. My dad is the epitome [00:18:55] of old school, strong, silent type. Mhm. [00:19:00] Um, great to go to for business advice because he is just, like, unemotional, [00:19:05] very stoic. But he’s such a good man. [00:19:10] Right. So if you wanted a snapshot into my parents, [00:19:15] they do. They do a lot for for charity. My mum is like really well known in [00:19:20] the community for charity, but each year they do a quiz night. [00:19:25] It was quite fun last time. Um, I had a Dental table. So [00:19:30] I believe you had your wand doctor wand on there. She came up and yeah, everybody [00:19:35] was drunk. Arm wrestling and everything on the table. I’m like, guys, there’s a quiz going on. Please, can I get some help? [00:19:40] But if you wanted a snapshot. So my mom is front and centre with [00:19:45] the microphone. Drinking wine, singing, shouting [00:19:50] at people. Just very much like the life and soul. The energy [00:19:55] in the room. But my dad, he’s in the background. He’s doing the marking. He’s [00:20:00] doing the scores. So it’s like one can’t exist without the other. But they really dovetail [00:20:05] really nicely. Yeah. So yeah. Good people. Good people.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:20:10] your sister is the youngest?

Joe Lovett: No, my sister is fourth [00:20:15] out of the five. Four out of five. Yeah. And it’s interesting now because you’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Involved them in the company. [00:20:20]

Joe Lovett: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How many of them now?

Joe Lovett: So Jack and Sophie are [00:20:25] working at full time at Pearl, which is one of the companies that I consult for. [00:20:30] And then Ty’s ties. My partner is obviously a dentist, and she does a little [00:20:35] bit of clinical training for another company that I work with. And then when I do [00:20:40] my event, my mum’s insistent on coming down and being involved and and [00:20:45] welcoming people. It was quite funny. So my, my, my last event, um, [00:20:50] it was the first live one that we did. I was very naturally [00:20:55] like apprehensive. And, you know, there’s no money there, right? So I’m roping in all family members anyway. [00:21:00] My mum is at the front of reception getting people, [00:21:05] uh, welcoming people. Anyway, as people arrived, like three [00:21:10] young dental students, she’s just gone and hugged them and gone. Hi, I’m [00:21:15] Joe’s mum. And I’m like, oh yeah, yeah, this is supposed to be like an educational [00:21:20] conference or whatever. Like. And then I was like, she’s great. Yeah, yeah, she’s great. And I was like, you know [00:21:25] what you do? You love it. Like it was. It was just, you [00:21:30] know, we always talk about authenticity. It was very real, very natural. And it was quite funny. After [00:21:35] the event, I put a little thing on my Instagram saying, who would you like to [00:21:40] hear from next year? And so many people wrote, we’d love to hear from your mum. It was [00:21:45] like if it had been my pals writing, your mum might have been like, you know, like old school joke. But I [00:21:50] think it was like genuine, like, hey, get her up there and have her say something. So yeah. So Jack [00:21:55] and Sophie are full time at Pearl as well, and they’re doing really well, really enjoying it, travelling a [00:22:00] lot and loving the Dental industry.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, to your point, I was looking for a particular [00:22:05] podcast. It was called The Church of Something. Yeah, that was a comedy podcast and [00:22:10] it wouldn’t find it on Spotify and it just found this other thing. It was a [00:22:15] church marketing. Marketing for Churches in American podcast. [00:22:20] Yeah. Okay. And and I just the guys just started talking and I was like, I was the wrong bloody podcast. But then [00:22:25] I just thought, let’s listen to what they’ve got to say about marketing. Yeah. Like Because, you know.

Joe Lovett: Some [00:22:30] of those churches in America.

Payman Langroudi: But also as an organisation, right. You’ve got 2000 years of success, [00:22:35] right? You’ve got to you’ve got to you’ve got to take your hat off to that. Right. So I thought, [00:22:40] let me just see what they’ve got to say. And what they were saying was so interesting, man. They were saying, hey, you know, there could [00:22:45] be a coffee machine, but you would never just have a coffee machine. You would have someone serving coffee [00:22:50] and talking to people when they serve coffee, and you’ve got a car park, but you’d never just leave [00:22:55] a car park. You’d have a couple of people in the car park shaking people’s hands. Yeah. As as they walk in. [00:23:00] And we set a rule for our team that you’ve got to shake ten hands, [00:23:05] you’ve got to get touch, you know, hug, hug three people and get one person’s [00:23:10] deep story. And everyone’s got to get that. And you know, we look at it afterwards and [00:23:15] and I thought, you know that’s that’s what we’re talking about here. You know your your mom hugging these people. [00:23:20] Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: But I’m not telling my mom to to hug ten people I know.

Payman Langroudi: I know.

Joe Lovett: She’s doing it naturally [00:23:25] because anyway.

Payman Langroudi: They’re doing it naturally because they’re there to help their volunteers. Yeah, [00:23:30] but it’s an interesting thing. It’s an interesting point. Yeah. That that sort of contact, human contact [00:23:35] with, there’s so little of it these days that that.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, I kind of I loathe [00:23:40] the whole corporate thing. Like I’ve been to probably hundreds of conferences, [00:23:45] um, around the world. And it all just feels [00:23:50] very kind of like staid. And I used to hate doing [00:23:55] them because, you know, you’re in a suit for three days, so. So anything that I do, I [00:24:00] want it to feel a bit more relaxed. And, you know, still that [00:24:05] you’re getting educational value out of the event, but at the same time, you [00:24:10] know, not feeling like you have to come and you’re going to have to take notes, speak to people and think, I [00:24:15] want it to feel like a warm, friendly, inviting environment.

Payman Langroudi: Especially the event that it is. [00:24:20] Right. So. So explain what the event is. The fast tracking your future [00:24:25] event. What is.

Joe Lovett: That? Sure. So it’s really the genesis of a program that I’ve been doing [00:24:30] for the last four years. And funnily enough, going back to Amit Patel. He was the catalyst [00:24:35] for it. So, um, and going back to people like Simon Chard, [00:24:40] I was watching people like Simon doing all these amazing things during lockdown, [00:24:45] and it was great to see so many dentists and dental professionals giving [00:24:50] back to their communities and trying to do something positive in what ever, you know, sort of [00:24:55] small way. It was, and I and I was talking to am on the phone because we speak regularly and I was [00:25:00] like, what should I do? And I feel like I want to do something for our community. I’ve got [00:25:05] time on my hands. And he really spoke to me and said, you’ve got a bank [00:25:10] of knowledge that you take for granted that I built up over my years predominantly at FMC. [00:25:15] So things like, how do I enter awards, how do I get published, you know, how do [00:25:20] I build commercial relationships with companies? You know, how do I get a speaker gig? [00:25:25] And so I just popped something up on my Instagram, and [00:25:30] I had very few followers at the time, but it just absolutely snowballed. And I think [00:25:35] what happened was, I think, funnily enough, one day who you had on the other day was one of the first people that I spoke to, [00:25:40] and then they post it and then ten more people get in contact. [00:25:45] And I think in the May of the first lockdown, I spoke to 150 [00:25:50] young dentists, hygienists, nurses, and [00:25:55] it was really interesting. We get into a deep dive about the non-clinical side of the career, like, [00:26:00] what do you want? What do you what do you want to achieve at the time?

Payman Langroudi: What were you thinking you were getting out of [00:26:05] it? Was it just giving back or was it, were you were you being strategic?

Joe Lovett: Genuinely [00:26:10] not strategic.

Payman Langroudi: Just trying to give back somehow.

Joe Lovett: And fill up [00:26:15] the day? I was I mean, it’s a long story living with a racist American [00:26:20] at the time. Uh, yeah. Maybe [00:26:25] a story for after a couple of beers, but we were just, like, co-existing, [00:26:30] but, like, so diametrically opposed in our thoughts and opinions. I’d met [00:26:35] her on a trip, on a holiday, and then she was like, oh, I’m going to move in, like, okay. And then [00:26:40] day after she arrived, lockdown. Oh my.

Payman Langroudi: Goodness.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. Wild. [00:26:45] Um, so I was like, okay, I need to do something to fill my days. And [00:26:50] also, I enjoy talking to people. Like, I like meeting new people. I like learning about people. [00:26:55] It’s a passion of mine. And then all I was saying to people was, look, if you [00:27:00] get something tangible off the back of this call, donate £20 [00:27:05] to the NHS frontline. And it went so well. And I just decided to do it [00:27:10] each year. And it like nothing is truly altruistic. But [00:27:15] it didn’t go in.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of giving back during Covid. Yeah. Lots of us were thinking, what can I [00:27:20] do? Right? Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: But then the benefits of that was, was I [00:27:25] got to understand what young people were thinking about, you know, what are the reoccurring themes, [00:27:30] um, that are bothering them, giving them problems. We got into a real deep dive, [00:27:35] really got into the weeds with a lot of people. And then also it enabled me to make a lot of connections. [00:27:40] So I did that for four years and then last year and many.

Payman Langroudi: Many of the young sort [00:27:45] of influencers that we see out there now came through that program.

Joe Lovett: They were [00:27:50] so and a lot of them do say very nice things to me and, and acknowledge [00:27:55] and say, oh, you know, you were the catalyst and you were like, Joe the plug. I sometimes [00:28:00] get called as well, or Uncle Joe, I don’t like that one as much. Um, but, [00:28:05] uh, yeah. And what I say to them was these [00:28:10] guys were rising stars, you know, nothing was going to get in their way. Maybe [00:28:15] all I did was just facilitate a few connections a little [00:28:20] sooner. Than than they had. They’ve done it by themselves. That was. That was all. Um, [00:28:25] so then last year, um, my mom’s best friend, actually, [00:28:30] who worked at Dental directory, um, passed away of ovarian cancer, [00:28:35] and I was at lunch with my mom, and I said, look, let’s do [00:28:40] something to raise money for the hospice that she was involved with because we changed the charity each year. It’s [00:28:45] like, let’s focus on Lorraine’s charity this year. I was like, let’s go bigger and bolder [00:28:50] and let’s just try something. Let’s take fast tracking your future and do it live. [00:28:55] And I was so fortunate in that the [00:29:00] likes of Monique Rona Shumway. You went like [00:29:05] all these mega stars from from from dentistry. Agreed [00:29:10] to come on board that day and speak it and be part of it. And, [00:29:15] uh, it was a beautiful day. It was, it was it was really nice. It’s [00:29:20] just great meeting so many young dentists who are appreciative of of that day. I think the [00:29:25] speakers got a lot out of it because they made new connections and, you know, young [00:29:30] dentists were coming to them going, oh, I’ve been following you for such a long time. Can I get a photo? So they got that [00:29:35] affirmation and I think the sponsors had a good time as well. Because you know this, [00:29:40] you’ll see it as well. This new generation of young dentists [00:29:45] coming through, they are so ambitious. They really want to be doing things, [00:29:50] you know, very, very quickly. And being able to provide companies with a [00:29:55] platform in order to engage with them, I think was really great.

Payman Langroudi: You’ve kind [00:30:00] of answered the question that I’m about to ask anyway just now, but have [00:30:05] you heard of effective altruism?

Joe Lovett: Explain what that means to me. [00:30:10]

Payman Langroudi: It’s like if the goal is to raise the maximum amount of money for the charity. Yeah. [00:30:15] If that’s the goal. Yeah. Um, then why don’t you just go work [00:30:20] hard for a month and just donate that money? Like it should be more money [00:30:25] than you’d raise in a charity event. It’s a [00:30:30] bit. It’s a bit ridiculous, a bit reductive. Yeah. The reductive nature of it is. Hey, okay, I’m a dentist. [00:30:35] I go join Médecins Sans Frontieres, go to a war zone, pull out some teeth. [00:30:40] Yeah, yeah, but if I want to alleviate maximum pain, I should go be a dentist, [00:30:45] sell teeth whitening to rich people, and then donate money for dentists [00:30:50] in in Sudan to do the work, because that will get the most people out of [00:30:55] pain. But it’s kind of for me, nice to go over [00:31:00] and do my bit personally look into the eyes of the person.

Joe Lovett: Oh yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:31:05]

Joe Lovett: I’ve done that as well. So I’ve been involved a few times with [00:31:10] the Handicapped Children’s Pilgrimage Trust, where we’ve been taking a group of [00:31:15] handicapped children to to France. And, um, [00:31:20] he was real, like front line. No, but we’re exhausting.

Payman Langroudi: Are you there? Yeah, I was there because the [00:31:25] most effective thing would be for you not to be there. And you earning money and sending someone who’s minimum wage [00:31:30] there. So effective altruism. Then you could take double the number of kids. So. But [00:31:35] but the act of being there feeds you. Yeah. And it’s and [00:31:40] you know, you just talked about the the day. Yeah. The sponsors had a great time. Sure. The [00:31:45] charity got raised some money. The young dentists, you know, it was a it was a wonderful [00:31:50] thing. Yes. You answered the question already. Yeah. There’s more value to to these things than just [00:31:55] the goal. The charity goal? Sure.

Joe Lovett: I mean, not to sound like too much of a Holy Joe. Yeah. Like, literally. But [00:32:00] like, I’ve done the both. I’ve done the let’s take the ticket revenue and [00:32:05] donate it to the charity. And they can push it, apportion it accordingly. But then also [00:32:10] I’ve done the front line thing as well. Um, so yeah, I think both [00:32:15] is important.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s move on from this, because I’ve gone [00:32:20] down this rabbit hole before and I’ve always thought, why did I say that? Why, why, why am I bothering with that? Is that Sam [00:32:25] Bankman-Fried? Do you know him? No. He was this crypto billionaire who ended up in jail because he [00:32:30] took people’s money. But he was he was obsessed with effective altruism. So his whole thing [00:32:35] was, how do I make the world better? Like. And he was stealing people’s money to do it, right? [00:32:40] There it.

Joe Lovett: Is. I’m definitely not stealing people’s [00:32:45] money.

Payman Langroudi: Um, let’s talk about FMC.

Joe Lovett: Okay, cool.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant [00:32:50] organisation. Um, when when you joined FMC, [00:32:55] I was working with FMC every day. Yeah, I still work with FMC, but. But you know, [00:33:00] the way the media landscape has changed now with digital platforms [00:33:05] and so on, right? But what was it like? I mean, that company definitely has like a something special about [00:33:10] it for sure. In terms of the atmosphere when you go there, the way it feels [00:33:15] like everyone’s pulling in the right same direction, a little bit of style and [00:33:20] pizzazz and and then to, you know, you can’t you can’t ignore it at the end [00:33:25] of the day. Ken. Um, he he just knows how to hit, [00:33:30] hit, hit a nail on the head with some ideas of his, you know, top 50. [00:33:35] Yeah. Awards, these sort of things. And I can even appreciate these things come from other industries. [00:33:40] And he just applied it to the industry. But that itself, that itself is genius, right? He’s a true [00:33:45] dude. Tell me, tell me about the the process of getting that job and then working there.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, [00:33:50] it’s interesting actually, because I was speaking to Gabby Bissett from UK on the way over [00:33:55] here, actually, and I was saying to her we were just, I was saying, how’s things going and everything? And [00:34:00] she works remotely. So when she comes to the office she’s like, there’s so many new faces. But [00:34:05] from what she was telling me, the ethos that Ken, you know, first [00:34:10] laid the first bricks for it’s still there. It’s still that kind of hard working, [00:34:15] you know, high energy. So when [00:34:20] I first started working there, I distinctly remember it. You know, Julian English, [00:34:25] the enigmatic guy. He was walking around, uh, shoes off, [00:34:30] I think, shirt unbuttoned to the navel. He was editorial director with [00:34:35] this huge box of chocolates. I remember being in the waiting area. He was like, would you like one young [00:34:40] man? I was like, you know what Julian’s like? You just instantly fall in love with him. [00:34:45] And it was a cool offices, like low wood beams, converted barn. [00:34:50]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, you never went to the previous one?

Joe Lovett: No, I never went to the first one. I never went to the first one. That [00:34:55] was different. I was like, I remember being nervous for my second interview because I really felt the pressure of [00:35:00] my days. I want to work here. Like, oh, you.

Payman Langroudi: Wanted the job.

Joe Lovett: I really wanted the job bad. I was [00:35:05] I was always very like chilled out in interviews because I saw it as a matchmaking process. [00:35:10] But with this one I felt the pressure because I was like, I really want to be a part of this. And [00:35:15] honestly, it was just a riot. Like [00:35:20] for the first year. Fun. So much fun.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting, fun and hard [00:35:25] work together. It’s such a brilliant combination.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, and I didn’t realise that [00:35:30] I was working, because if you think about it, I’m not sure how many they have now, but back in the day we had seven [00:35:35] awards throughout the year and it’d be like Ireland, Scotland. So it will all be different [00:35:40] types of parties and drink. And then what you didn’t realise was when [00:35:45] you were at the bar at 2:00 in the morning and you were, I don’t know, with you maybe like you’re [00:35:50] making a connection, that’s work. But even at the time of my life and getting paid for it as well. [00:35:55] So it was absolutely brilliant. And don’t get me wrong, it’s [00:36:00] only now looking back that I was working hard throughout my 20s [00:36:05] when we were getting up at 6:00 in the morning and driving up to some lamp in Bradford [00:36:10] or wherever.

Payman Langroudi: Trying to sell him an.

Joe Lovett: Ad. Yeah. Bye bye. A half page advert in this publication. [00:36:15] And we were always told by Kimberly Finlayson, like, get the petrol money or don’t come [00:36:20] home, just cover the cost of the petrol. And I loved it. I loved meeting new people. I [00:36:25] loved the buzz of of selling. I love being at the idea of like being able to help people, [00:36:30] you know, achieve their goals. And, and I loved the people that I worked [00:36:35] with, you know, I’ve got some great friends from there as well. And we’ve had some wild times. [00:36:40] Wild, wild times. I probably can’t say too much about it, but it’s interesting. Actually. One [00:36:45] of my clients invited me over this week for their Christmas party in [00:36:50] Zurich, and honestly, it was so like respectful [00:36:55] was the word. We were handed him sheets. The corporate no, not even [00:37:00] a big corporate a Start-Up. Probably the similar size to what FMC was the time. And we’re singing like [00:37:05] Silent Night in German. Oh, God. And then. Yeah. And I’m thinking, wow, [00:37:10] you know, like back in the day of like, FMC was like casual nudity [00:37:15] and some sort of, like, soap opera going on and fights [00:37:20] like. Yeah, it was um.

Payman Langroudi: And, well, how do you feel when you see, uh, Craig [00:37:25] and Tim and Jason now buying the thing? I mean, like sort of that [00:37:30] management buyout that they did.

Joe Lovett: Good for them, man. What I would say about those guys [00:37:35] is they have an unparalleled work [00:37:40] ethic.

Payman Langroudi: Those individuals.

Joe Lovett: Uh, Craig and Tim on the roads. If [00:37:45] there’s people working harder than them in the Dental industry, [00:37:50] I’m yet to see them. Is that right? They are so dogged and [00:37:55] determined. They’re just relentless. And to have been working there for as long [00:38:00] as they have been, and to still have that determination and those levels [00:38:05] of energy. Because let’s be honest, most people you get comfortable in a [00:38:10] job, you find out the best way to cut corners. You get fat and happy, right? Yeah. [00:38:15] To still have that fire. All credit to them. And also not to be [00:38:20] too sycophantic to to coiner Ken Finlayson’s phrase. Um, [00:38:25] what they’ve done. So one of the catalysts for me leaving was we were very print reliant. [00:38:30] And I remember having a conversation with you actually, like, the world’s going digital, right? [00:38:35] And I’m here trying to sell you an advert in a publication. Yeah. What [00:38:40] they’ve done really, really effectively is segway into the digital world. Yeah. Really, really effectively. [00:38:45] Yeah, but you were a trailblazer in that field. I remember having the conversation [00:38:50] with you, like, look what I can do on these platforms and look what I can do with these partners. I [00:38:55] think you really cottoned on to it much sooner than.

Payman Langroudi: You were slow to get yours yourself. You were you were [00:39:00] you weren’t on social media at all. And then suddenly you were like a slow start. Slow starter. [00:39:05] Fast learner. Suddenly you were like, all about Instagram.

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:39:10] remember saying to you, hey, social media. And you were like, no, not me, not me, I remember that. Well, it was like, do [00:39:15] you remember those original guys who didn’t want a mobile phone? Indy?

Joe Lovett: Yeah, I didn’t [00:39:20] want a mobile phone. I think the term is a Luddite. I don’t know, I just [00:39:25] because Facebook was the big thing. Yeah, yeah. You did.

Payman Langroudi: You were even on Facebook.

Joe Lovett: You like Facebook? [00:39:30] You skipped altogether? Yeah. Completely skipped it. I don’t I [00:39:35] think probably it was more about like being present and enjoying the moment [00:39:40] and probably also an element of I don’t want anybody to take this photo and put it [00:39:45] up online, you know, tag me.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes we script ourselves, you know, like we just script ourselves [00:39:50] into, you know, for no reason. I didn’t fancy doing much, [00:39:55] uh, Google AdWords right now. I wish I had, but [00:40:00] I scripted myself into saying that’s not that’s not the way I want to Sell?

Joe Lovett: Possibly. [00:40:05] Maybe. I thought like it was a cool thing. I’d made a stance like. Yeah, you made [00:40:10] a stance about it. I think I did, and I think my.

Payman Langroudi: Brother did the same. My brother still isn’t [00:40:15] on social media. I’m telling him, hey, now jump into TikTok. Yeah. Yeah. And [00:40:20] you don’t have to be doing all the rest. Tiktok is amazing in that sense.

Joe Lovett: I [00:40:25] mean, would you tell him he could be pulled down within the next six months by the Americans? Tiktok.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:40:30] I think they’ll do a deal.

Joe Lovett: No, I don’t think it will happen either.

Payman Langroudi: Well you’re right. I mean, it’s actually [00:40:35] mid January is the date.

Joe Lovett: Yeah for sure.

Payman Langroudi: In America they’re gonna maybe close it, [00:40:40] but hopefully they’ll do a deal. I mean anyway my point on on [00:40:45] are you on TikTok? No, not on TikTok.

Joe Lovett: Not on TikTok. No, I [00:40:50] but I feel like I should be. Yeah, I just I don’t really [00:40:55] like it social and I’m glued to it all the time [00:41:00] and it irritates me.

Payman Langroudi: Well, yeah.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, we’re all struggling, but I, [00:41:05] I’m such a believer in the importance of it.

Payman Langroudi: We’re all struggling with that. [00:41:10] Yeah. But what I quite like, dude, about it is just the very simple thing that when [00:41:15] we met, when me and you met, if there was a young dentist who had something to say, yeah, [00:41:20] they would have had to have the sort of the luck of the.

Joe Lovett: Draw, sure. [00:41:25]

Payman Langroudi: Of meeting someone like you. And the chances of that were close [00:41:30] to zero. Yeah. And there could be a young dentist sitting in Folkestone who wants to say something about, [00:41:35] sure, about a nurses lot or something like that, and had no [00:41:40] way of getting that information out. And then you’d have the odd anointed people. Yeah. Mervyn [00:41:45] Drouin or, I don’t.

Joe Lovett: Know, young dentist. No no no, no. Richard Field [00:41:50] or somebody like that. No, no.

Payman Langroudi: Before Richard Field anointed experts. Yes. Expert. And they [00:41:55] were. But by the way, sometimes those guys were experts because they’d had to go up a university ladder [00:42:00] or whatever it was. They’d have to be someone, someone already very experienced. Those people [00:42:05] would have a voice and no one else would. And today we’ve got the opposite problem of everyone’s [00:42:10] got a voice and it’s congested with with.

Joe Lovett: Voices through the noise. [00:42:15] Yeah. But still.

Payman Langroudi: The good thing is if you when it’s got something to say and [00:42:20] she’s got something to say and it’s of value, she, you know, she can get it out. [00:42:25] And then the quality of what she’s got to say determines the reach. And that’s beautiful, [00:42:30] man.

Joe Lovett: It’s so beautiful. It’s great in that respect.

Payman Langroudi: It’s the democratisation of [00:42:35] of of of it, you know.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. You feel the burden a little bit of. Okay, [00:42:40] I have to promote my next event. Yeah. You know, [00:42:45] I don’t want to do it. I’d much rather be a little bit more organic and just using [00:42:50] it for fun, but it is a business networking tool, and it’s interesting. I get asked all the time [00:42:55] by young dentists like, oh, do I need to be on it? It’s like.

Payman Langroudi: Hell yeah.

Joe Lovett: Hell, [00:43:00] yeah is like, you don’t need need to be on it.

Payman Langroudi: Of [00:43:05] course not. You can. You can do.

Joe Lovett: Whatever you want. You could go and do your 9 to [00:43:10] 5 and enjoy it and and love your dentistry, but you will miss out on potential opportunities. [00:43:15] That’s just a fact. You will miss out on potential great connections. [00:43:20] You will miss out on being educated on certain certain things. [00:43:25] So there’s real value in it. Real value in it.

Payman Langroudi: You know what it is. Like, we don’t all have to. [00:43:30] We can. Some of us can watch a movie or listen to music and not necessarily make [00:43:35] a movie or make music. Yeah. That’s true. Yeah, it’s it’s [00:43:40] a medium of entertainment and education and whatever else you want to call it, news or whatever, [00:43:45] and you can just be a consumer of it.

Joe Lovett: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lurker I think [00:43:50] they call them.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So then but the problem is all of us are [00:43:55] consumers of it. All of us. Yeah. There’s very, very few people who are not consumers of [00:44:00] it. And so if that’s the case, if all the consumers, all the attention is there.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. And [00:44:05] I say this to particularly my clients, international clients, it’s like [00:44:10] everything takes place on social media. Yeah. If you were coming into this [00:44:15] country and you want to have a presence and you want to have your finger [00:44:20] on the pulse of the market, you have to be on social media and they go, okay, okay, okay. And like [00:44:25] they always within 6 to 12 months come to me. And they’re like, we [00:44:30] didn’t realise to quite what extent the dental industry and dental profession [00:44:35] takes place on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. In the U.K., in the U.K., [00:44:40] in the U.K., it’s interesting.

Payman Langroudi: So you’ve got quite a lot of sort of knowledge of other markets. Where would [00:44:45] you say we’re at in the UK regarding sort of how progressed we are or [00:44:50] how behind we are?

Joe Lovett: Yeah. Well, they always used to talk about UK dentistry was ten years behind [00:44:55] American Dentistry, which I don’t believe that at all. And social media has helped to [00:45:00] bridge that gap in terms of I can follow a dentist in Los Angeles or New [00:45:05] York and see what they’re doing and see how they’re operating their practice and, and emulate that here. [00:45:10] So I would say definitely not behind. Definitely not behind.

Payman Langroudi: Look [00:45:15] ahead though, as far as for instance, you’re saying social media. There must be markets where [00:45:20] I’m guessing the German market isn’t so run by social media.

Joe Lovett: No, no. [00:45:25] But would you then describe that as being ahead? Yeah. You describe it as being. You think the German market [00:45:30] will go that way? Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Payman Langroudi: In terms of I’m not saying ahead in terms of like quality ahead [00:45:35] of in terms of timeline, you know. So I do think oh.

Joe Lovett: Well in that respect then. Yeah, [00:45:40] UK dentistry is way ahead in terms of social media usage and [00:45:45] and using it as a platform to communicate and engage with patients and, and you know, [00:45:50] your peers.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But it must be happening everywhere right as well. Yeah. I had a [00:45:55] guy I mean, maybe because I’m an Iranian, these Iranian composite bonding dentists coming [00:46:00] up on my feed here, and they were using social media to get composite bonding cases, you know, like it’s like in [00:46:05] the same way as they do here, even even more production value and all that.

Joe Lovett: I get Indian [00:46:10] dentists ask me about jobs all the time. All the time.

Payman Langroudi: Some of the practices in India, I’ve seen some [00:46:15] beautiful looking practices from India, you know.

Joe Lovett: Did you spend time with have you been over there? No, no, no.

Payman Langroudi: Well, I’ve been to [00:46:20] India several times, but but not not for work. Um, but I just saw some, some some videos. [00:46:25] You know, it’s the same thing. It feeds you what you’re looking at.

Joe Lovett: The algorithm.

Payman Langroudi: And suddenly, you see, it’s like an echo [00:46:30] chamber, isn’t it? That’s. That’s the point of it.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So, okay, FMC, you [00:46:35] decided to leave and [00:46:40] set up your own. Did you decide to leave because you wanted to set up your.

Joe Lovett: Own, or [00:46:45] was I forcibly removed? No. Um, it was twofold. [00:46:50] I hit ten years and [00:46:55] I had a bit of an epiphany. I was like, what’s the next ten years going to look like? You know, you reflect, [00:47:00] but also look forward.

Payman Langroudi: Is this just a pre-COVID? Right?

Joe Lovett: Yes. Yeah, [00:47:05] exactly. Um, and I thought we were very print reliant and [00:47:10] I didn’t see us making that jump to digital. [00:47:15] Yeah, soon. And it made me nervous. I didn’t want to be approaching 40 and [00:47:20] be a dinosaur. So that was a definite catalyst [00:47:25] for catalyst. Sorry. Cringeworthy. Um, and then also, [00:47:30] I was like. I’d managed a team as [00:47:35] a sales director there, and I was crap at it, honestly. [00:47:40] I’ve always been sort of the oldest of five, you know, always been the football [00:47:45] captain. I’ve always thought I’ve been a natural leader, but [00:47:50] I didn’t realise at the time. Some huge gulf between being a good leader [00:47:55] and being a good manager. You know who I was? Pay. I was David Brent. I [00:48:00] just wanted everybody to love me and have a good time and everything like that. But that doesn’t lend yourself to [00:48:05] being a good manager. So I, I really didn’t enjoy that [00:48:10] element of people know I was, I was I was bad at it. I was bad at it. I [00:48:15] always struggle with with trying to rationalise with people. I remember we had one guy, I [00:48:20] won’t name him. He’s not in dentistry anymore.

Joe Lovett: But, um, he was cheating on his expenses, [00:48:25] right? And every month have a difficult conversation with him. I [00:48:30] remember one, one particular month and I would always let it [00:48:35] slide. But one particular month, he bought a bottle of champagne on a Saturday night [00:48:40] in a club. Right. And I pulled him up. I said, sorry, [00:48:45] what? From what meeting was this from? I was out with a dental nurse. Joe [00:48:50] was like, okay, you do realise we’re the department that sells ads [00:48:55] to enlighten Colgate? You know GSK? Yeah. [00:49:00] Excuse me, Joe, but their practice. They use FMC for CPD. [00:49:05] Right. Okay, but we’re not that. I think you’re out of order, Joe. You’ve changed since. [00:49:10] And I’m like, I’m trying to rationalise with somebody who’s been completely irrational, [00:49:15] and I just, uh, I really I wasn’t authoritative [00:49:20] enough. I hadn’t set the bar high enough in terms of my own standards to, [00:49:25] to, to, to, to be a good manager. So I was kind of a little bit fed up of that. [00:49:30] So yeah, that was a motivation for let’s do this, do it on my own and let’s see how [00:49:35] it goes.

Payman Langroudi: You seem to have done it in kind of a painless kind of way, but I’m sure there was massive trepidation [00:49:40] and risk and.

[TRANSITION]: Uh, you.

Joe Lovett: Know, [00:49:45] is the brutally honest answer. Um, [00:49:50] and I don’t want to sound conceited here, but I always felt [00:49:55] like I’d worked hard enough to build up enough relationships and a good enough reputation [00:50:00] whereby if it did go belly up, it was like, give it a year, let’s give it two years. [00:50:05] I could get a job back in dentistry. It is very much an industry [00:50:10] that takes care of its own. And and you will see it going to the shows. There’s a [00:50:15] lot of the same faces.

Payman Langroudi: And people moving companies as well.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, yeah. They will jump from composite company to [00:50:20] composite company. Um, so I don’t think, you know, I always [00:50:25] had that failsafe of I can get a job back in dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: It’s such a brilliant [00:50:30] point here, because I remember wanting to stop being a dentist, [00:50:35] and I grappled with it, and I hated it. And I did one day a week for six years, you [00:50:40] know, because I just didn’t want to stop being a dentist until Prav kind of [00:50:45] gave me permission to stop, Really?

Joe Lovett: But [00:50:50] for me, what you did. And not to blow too much smoke. But it’s a [00:50:55] much more significant jump than what I did. Because you’ve studied long and hard to be a clinician, [00:51:00] right? So to jump from being a clinician to a business person and an entrepreneur [00:51:05] and a business owner, and to have as many people here as you do, and I know it wasn’t [00:51:10] always the case, but to be responsible for people’s livelihoods, there’s [00:51:15] a huge amount of pressure.

Payman Langroudi: 15 or 16 years in. Yeah, I was still doing one day a week of dentistry. [00:51:20] And lighten was 15 years old at the time. Right. So enlightened was a going concern. I [00:51:25] knew I kind of wanted to stop a little bit, but at the same time, you define yourself by [00:51:30] your job somehow. And Prav gave me permission. He kind of kind of [00:51:35] said, listen, you’ll never make anything of enlightened if you don’t stop. Which I don’t think was true. I don’t [00:51:40] think it was true. But he was saying that. And then the other thing he said was he could always [00:51:45] come back and be a dentist again, which is which is kind of the point you just made. Yeah. And it’s for dentists. It’s actually. [00:51:50] That’s a very important point. Yeah. You can stop for five years. Yeah. [00:51:55] If your circumstances allow. Yeah. You can stop for five full years because plenty [00:52:00] of mothers do that and come back and become dentists. Yeah. And you could go back [00:52:05] and you can feed your family. Yeah. As an associate, let’s say it all goes belly up. [00:52:10] Terrible nightmare. Whatever you tried. Yeah. Come back. You’re going to earn your 100 grand as an associate [00:52:15] or whatever it is you’re up to as an associate. Feed your family. Start rebuilding again. [00:52:20] And when you’re young. Yeah. I was 28 when we started enlightened. Okay. [00:52:25] But that’s five years time. Now you’re 33. Yeah. [00:52:30] You know you can do it. It’s doable. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s knowing that you can come back [00:52:35] is such an important point. Because when you’re a dentist, even when you go on two weeks holiday, when you come back, you [00:52:40] feel a bit rusty. Yeah. Because the muscle memory.

Joe Lovett: Of that.

Payman Langroudi: Conversation. So the idea that you could [00:52:45] go away for five years and come back. Just seems ridiculous.

Joe Lovett: I think there’s also [00:52:50] a bit of a stepping stone that I’m seeing as well, with a lot of of dentists, whereby [00:52:55] they perhaps can do two days working with a company as [00:53:00] well and have that kind of blended.

Payman Langroudi: Role.

Joe Lovett: And think, oh, actually, I [00:53:05] don’t hate this. I could see myself doing a little bit more of it and moving more towards [00:53:10] it, but it’s just making that initial leap, which is the challenge.

Payman Langroudi: Do you empathise with these young dentists [00:53:15] who say, I want to work three days a week, full stop, and that’s the lifestyle I want? Because it’s [00:53:20] I do, I definitely do. I think it’s the future that people should be able to say that and it shouldn’t be a problem. But a lot of practice [00:53:25] owners don’t like it.

Joe Lovett: I can see why they have an issue with that because it’s difficult [00:53:30] to.

Payman Langroudi: Difficult to run their.

Joe Lovett: Businesses. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so many young [00:53:35] dentists that I speak to have got side hustles, you know, separate businesses. [00:53:40] Yeah. Yeah. They’re very entrepreneurial. Some of these guys and do [00:53:45] three days clinical, two days on the business or one day on the business.

Payman Langroudi: And what kind of [00:53:50] businesses?

Joe Lovett: Oh all sorts. Yeah, everything. Things in.

Payman Langroudi: The industry.

Joe Lovett: Completely. [00:53:55] You know, like some of them are personal trainers, some of them are doing app [00:54:00] development. Some of them are, you know, developing businesses within dentistry that, you know, products [00:54:05] and things like that. Toothbrushes, toothpaste. So I see all manner of different jobs and opportunities [00:54:10] out there as well for young dentists.

Payman Langroudi: But what do you what’s your advice? I get asked [00:54:15] a lot by a lot of dentists about toothpaste, a lot [00:54:20] almost every day. It’s becoming much more common thing [00:54:25] because toothpaste has become a thing right? Since Hismile and Moon. Yeah. [00:54:30] You know, like high end toothpaste has become a thing. That. And I get [00:54:35] asked a lot about this. My advice is beware.

Joe Lovett: It’s such a saturated [00:54:40] market.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not even toothpaste. Any business. Yeah, Where? Where? Right. Yeah. [00:54:45] Because people, people, people, people want to have their own business. Sure. Yeah. Go do it. [00:54:50] Do it. But I mean, you you went painlessly into your own business, consulting [00:54:55] businesses, at least one of those businesses. That is kind of low risk and. Sure. It took [00:55:00] me five years of massive pain and loss of I mean, you know, we lost three [00:55:05] quarters of £1 million in the first.

Joe Lovett: And also you’re having to invest heavily in R&D and stuff like that. [00:55:10] Me, it’s my laptop and my knowledge.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Putting your house on the line, begging, borrowing from parents [00:55:15] to just stay alive. You know what I mean? Beware is the thing. Now, once you [00:55:20] know that. Hell yeah. Go for it.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, I would say it’s really important to have enough [00:55:25] of a differentiator. Yeah. You really? Because like we said earlier, there’s so much [00:55:30] noise out there. If you can siphon through it, it has to be with something really stand [00:55:35] out, something really, really unique.

Payman Langroudi: I think particularly if you’re selling to dentists. Yeah. Particularly [00:55:40] for senator dentists. The consumers. Again, the the marketing needs to be unique. Yeah. [00:55:45] But you’re also right in that people think, oh, there’s 100 [00:55:50] fashion, there’s 100 hoodies you can buy. Each one of them is based on the brand. [00:55:55] Yeah. And people get themselves lost in the idea that brand is everything. And brand is not everything, [00:56:00] man. Yeah. Brand is something. It’s one corner. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: It’s a component.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:56:05] it’s a component. But people lose themselves in that notion that it’s only about brand. Yeah. [00:56:10] And it’s not.

Joe Lovett: No no no no no. It’s just a small facet for [00:56:15] sure.

Payman Langroudi: The companies that you’ve brought in. Paul. Yeah. Brilliant. Interesting. [00:56:20] Very interesting.

Joe Lovett: Cool. Right. It’s like sexy.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not, I [00:56:25] think, sexy as a product. Yeah. Yeah. Um, brand wise, I don’t know, but I had Ophir on [00:56:30] on on the podcast. Interesting.

Joe Lovett: Dude. Right?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So.

Joe Lovett: So one of these mega brains. [00:56:35]

Payman Langroudi: What a brain.

Joe Lovett: What? He’s irritating, I fear, because He’s [00:56:40] like obviously super, super intelligent, but he’s like nauseatingly handsome [00:56:45] as well. And he’s a cool guy. Like good fun to hang out with. I’m like, I don’t want to like you, but I [00:56:50] can’t not.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve never hung out with him, but I got the feeling from him like, it’s [00:56:55] an interesting thing. Like now everyone’s talking, I. Yeah. But I said to him, so when did [00:57:00] you start with I. It was like 2007, 2007. He was playing with [00:57:05] I. Yeah. And you really realised, you know, that notion of hey, don’t just follow the latest [00:57:10] trend because, you know, there’s people who’ve been working on something.

Joe Lovett: He’s a trailblazer. But you know, he’s [00:57:15] 1 in.

Payman Langroudi: 1,000,000 and the and the and the technology came from sort of this computer [00:57:20] learning.

Joe Lovett: Machine learning.

Payman Langroudi: Of logos where their previous company, they were measuring [00:57:25] the number of impressions of a logo across all media so that they could [00:57:30] have companies measure.

Joe Lovett: Predominantly in sports.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so I don’t know if AIG [00:57:35] sponsored Manchester United, they’d want to know how many extra hours of that logo? I [00:57:40] mean, genius in itself. But then he used that technology to train the [00:57:45] model for Pearl. Yes. Which is digital. So how did he come to you? How did that happen? [00:57:50]

Joe Lovett: It’s, uh. I’ve been very, very blessed in terms of new business, [00:57:55] in that it’s always been word of mouth. And [00:58:00] I think that because global dentistry is actually pretty small and [00:58:05] there are various players in each market, it’s like, listen, if you want a [00:58:10] quicker route to market, that’s the guy to speak to. So it was literally just a connection of an existing [00:58:15] connection. And it’s interesting because it feels very direct as well. [00:58:20] And um, he said, well, what can you do for us? And I told him some of [00:58:25] the things that I believed I could help her with. And he went, I don’t believe you can do any [00:58:30] of those things. Don’t be sorry. I don’t believe you can do all of those things. But for [00:58:35] that little amount of money, let’s just give you a try. I’m like, okay. Oh, did I quote that [00:58:40] price? That’s just the starter entry. No, but put your prices up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. [00:58:45] Um, but we’ve been working with them for, um.

Payman Langroudi: Just break it down for me. When when you’ve got that challenge. [00:58:50] What are you thinking? Well, I mean, now, but back then, you were just [00:58:55] a beginner. Now, if you see a technology you love and you think I can that’s [00:59:00] got legs in the UK, give me the cornerstones of of of what? How you’re thinking you’re going to introduce [00:59:05] it to the market. Um. Make it flourish. Sure.

Joe Lovett: Well, the first [00:59:10] hurdle is can you sell here in the UK? Yeah. So let’s look at all [00:59:15] the the regulatory the regulatory regulatory.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Joe Lovett: So there’s various people [00:59:20] there that I’ll call and speak and they’re already probably have an idea. Okay. [00:59:25] And then really hone down in how is this [00:59:30] going to help people do a better job by their patience. How is it going to make [00:59:35] more profit for their practice. And then how do we get it in front of people? Yeah. [00:59:40] What’s you know, again, going back to the noise. How [00:59:45] do we siphon through that noise? How do we put this in front of the right people? They go, you know what, [00:59:50] I like that. I’ll give it a try. And not only I’m going to give it a try, I’m going to talk about it. [00:59:55] And it’s just that snowball effect. So there is a process, but a lot of it is [01:00:00] dependent on where they are.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s imagine regulatory is taken care of. And you [01:00:05] reckon it’s a good business proposal for sure for a dentist. Now [01:00:10] we’re talking. I mean there is also the distribution and support bit after how [01:00:15] you get you know. Yeah. But how are you thinking around how do we get in front of people and get people [01:00:20] talking about it.

Joe Lovett: Well, well, the great thing is as well at this point [01:00:25] stage is there’s a burgeoning corporate market here. Yeah. [01:00:30] So you can have some very, very quick wins by saying, Look, I [01:00:35] can put you in front of the clinical director from Coliseum Group, and they have X [01:00:40] number of practices here, but they also have them throughout Europe. Or Bupa or wherever. My dentist. That’s [01:00:45] very, very appealing. You imagine if you could say to somebody from the US, [01:00:50] listen, I can put your product in front of the clinical decision [01:00:55] makers from my dentist. They are 550 practices. How does that sound to you? [01:01:00] You know, maybe they’ll look at, do a pilot and roll it out. That holds a lot of appeal. That is a very, [01:01:05] very big, quick, easy win when it comes to the high street. I’m [01:01:10] a bit like you. I’m a big believer in peer to peer recommendation. [01:01:15] So how do we get the right key opinion leaders. And [01:01:20] then going back to the platforms that they have, talking to the correct audience [01:01:25] about this new product or service, and whether that be on their socials, whether that be in articles, whether [01:01:30] that be speaking, you know, what are the are the platforms we’re using in order [01:01:35] to get it out there to the widest possible audience of people? So that’s that’s [01:01:40] now. And then we look at the schools. We look at media plan. We look at [01:01:45] then building a team out. You know, you’re going to need people on the road selling [01:01:50] or managing. Um, so yeah, it all depends on the [01:01:55] life cycle of the product and where they are and, and what their specific problems [01:02:00] are at that at that stage.

Payman Langroudi: And what are the financial arrangements between you and these [01:02:05] different companies? Is it always they’re just paying you consulting or is there sometimes a percentage [01:02:10] of sales. Kind of. So it could be whichever way they want it to be.

Joe Lovett: It works both. So I have [01:02:15] a standard monthly consulting fee or it might be a referral [01:02:20] fee for an introduction. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm. Mhm. And then [01:02:25] how many of those are you. I mean how far does does your influence go. I mean [01:02:30] Pearl came in what 2 or 2 or 3 years ago? Yep. Are you continuing to work for [01:02:35] them or.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. There’s still things that I can help them with.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re continuing to be there because [01:02:40] how many of these have you got going at the moment?

Joe Lovett: I would say 7 or 8.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yeah.

Joe Lovett: I [01:02:45] find I can do things very quickly. Yeah, I know, I know because it’s all on my phone. It’s interesting. My dad is like, when are you going to [01:02:50] do some work? It’s like, I’ve been working all day, dude. Like, just because I’m, you [01:02:55] know, at home in a tracksuit with a pizza on my chest, you know, like, [01:03:00] it’s. But. And people sort of say to me, like, I don’t really understand what you do. [01:03:05] What they don’t realise is the largesse of what I’ve [01:03:10] done was done in my 20s. You know, I’m coming on for nearly 20 years in dentistry. That graph [01:03:15] that shows, you know, getting up at 530 in the morning and driving [01:03:20] all over the country to speak to different people, or being that last person in the bar at [01:03:25] various awards. That was, you know, the early years of [01:03:30] building those relationships, building that relationship, those reputations that have, you know, [01:03:35] are serving me well now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So I used to, if I wanted to know or [01:03:40] I still still do now, if I wanted to know who to call at Clark Dental. Yeah, I’d call [01:03:45] you or I’d call Craig and I’d say, who’s the guy at Clark Dental? And you underestimate. [01:03:50] One does underestimate the power of that.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. And I think, [01:03:55] in fact, in other markets, they value it more than even we do. The power of relationships. Yeah. [01:04:00] You know, in America, they always talk about their their Rolodex. You know, my Rolodex of contacts, my Rolodex [01:04:05] of contacts. It’s like, no, my my Rolodex of contacts is [01:04:10] the people that I can DM on Instagram. It’s people that can WhatsApp and say, hey, how are [01:04:15] you doing? Listen, I’ve got this cool thing. Can I arrange for somebody to come speak to you? Yeah, sure. Joe. Let’s do it. [01:04:20] So, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I remember listening to Chris Barrow once talking about how he keeps his network [01:04:25] live. He’s very tactical on it, you know, like he [01:04:30] he picks the top 20 people in his network. It definitely has a phone conversation.

Joe Lovett: Smart guy.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, definitely [01:04:35] has a phone conversation with them once a week. Then the next 30 years, a different thing. [01:04:40] Yeah. Are you like that or. No. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: No, I’m always talking to people. I mean, and it’s not false [01:04:45] or anything, like I genuinely care. Like, a lot of these people, I’m. I’m very, very fond of, I’ve [01:04:50] become friendly with them. I socialise with them as well. So, you know, a lot of the time [01:04:55] we’re just chit chatting. Mhm. But then when it comes to hey listen I’ve got this opportunity. [01:05:00] Do you want to take a look at it and maybe we can work together. Cool. Yeah. Let’s do it. It’s just it’s [01:05:05] very organic.

Payman Langroudi: So having worked with so many companies and in [01:05:10] your FMC days as well, and I imagine from the smallest, like you said, one, [01:05:15] one man lab to some of the biggest companies in the world, right. When you look at the invisaligns [01:05:20] and the shines that the invista [01:05:25] some of the best companies in the in the world? Sure. Three. And all that. You’ve [01:05:30] seen so many different businesses. Yeah. And and the characters in those businesses and [01:05:35] and more importantly, what the way you talked about FMC and the sort of the vibe. Yeah. [01:05:40] In the business. What are your reflections? I mean, have you have you learned lessons from the way [01:05:45] people run their businesses, their buildings, their meritocracies? [01:05:50] What have people done really well? How have you found companies that [01:05:55] you work with or you’ve worked with that are even better at it than Ken was at FMC [01:06:00] or gone? Ooh.

Joe Lovett: Good question. Um, [01:06:05] culture is really important. Yeah. The culture of of the company and having [01:06:10] people bought into it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but give me an example of that. Good and bad. Like, [01:06:15] for instance, like Stroman famous for culture, you know, huge culture company. [01:06:20]

Joe Lovett: Well, I think I can speak about this, actually. I love Stroman now. I have a [01:06:25] really, really good relationship with them. I’m very grateful they’re going to be supporting fast Track in [01:06:30] the future next year. Great great people. We’re going back. Ten years was [01:06:35] one of the worst meetings I’ve ever, ever had was at drama. [01:06:40] Yeah. Um, can I talk about that? Is that okay? Yeah. Why not? Um, so [01:06:45] funny enough, I was at IDs and Brandon had this mega stand, and they had this, like, the [01:06:50] theme that year was Hells Angels theme or something like that. Anyway, [01:06:55] they had these temporary tattoos, and I knew that I had a meeting with strawman in a couple of [01:07:00] weeks, so I got one right. I brought it back and it was all going to be part of a big pitch. [01:07:05] Okay, I was going to have this tattoo on.

Payman Langroudi: The arm and tattoo.

Joe Lovett: And it was an implant [01:07:10] with these, like, big angel wings either side of it. So it was like the size [01:07:15] of my forearm. I was like, it was going to be part of a big unveil, like, do this [01:07:20] presentation pitch at the end, roll my sleeves up and go, here’s my commitment to working [01:07:25] in partnership with the Sram Group. I’ve even got a tattoo. Everybody will laugh. They’ll shake my hand. I’ll walk [01:07:30] away with the business. Anyway, the day of the meeting, I was due to go with Ken and, [01:07:35] um, one of Ken’s kids was ill, [01:07:40] so he had to go to the doctors with him and couldn’t make it. So I had to go anyway. Walked [01:07:45] into the room and there’s nine marketing managers there. Corporate types, [01:07:50] very corporate, very corporate. And the guy who was running the team at the [01:07:55] time, he went, where’s your guv’nor? I said, I’m really sorry, kid. He’ll [01:08:00] have to go to the doctors, but I’m here and I’ll do the presentation. Fuck’s [01:08:05] sake. You look like you’ve just come straight from your paper round. Immediately [01:08:10] on the back foot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, [01:08:15] back then I had a much more of a baby face, and it was hell. [01:08:20] So he’d set the precedent. These guys were grilling me. And honestly, [01:08:25] throughout the whole time I was sweating like a pregnant numpy, right? And all I could think about [01:08:30] was this god damn tattoo that I had on my forearm. I’m just like, pulling my sleeve down, [01:08:35] thinking, please, nobody see this.

Payman Langroudi: You realise you weren’t going to use that? No.

Joe Lovett: No, no. [01:08:40] Nobody ever knew about that tattoo, man. But yeah, I think [01:08:45] we went off a divergent path there.

Payman Langroudi: No, no, but we’re talking about sort of culture and we’re talking about, [01:08:50] you know, what you’ve seen. And obviously, you know, what you’ve seen is reflected by these meetings, [01:08:55] you know. So so where have you seen great, um, culture, where have you seen great [01:09:00] companies and, and what mistakes have you seen people make?

Joe Lovett: Yeah, [01:09:05] it’s it’s definitely changed a lot over the years. It’s become [01:09:10] a lot more corporate, a lot more corporate. And I don’t always necessarily [01:09:15] think that’s the for the better. You don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Enjoy it.

Joe Lovett: No. But people [01:09:20] don’t have the depth of depth of relationships with their customers that perhaps that they once did. [01:09:25] And I won’t mention any names. Um, [01:09:30] but there was a great company and everybody there was [01:09:35] a card, right? Like, you knew that if you were with them, you were going to have a great time. And [01:09:40] they were like that with their customers. They would take them out, wine them, dine them [01:09:45] and drunk the odd, you know, like un-pc joke and things. [01:09:50] And, and they did really, really well at the time. Really, really [01:09:55] well. They were kind of renowned.

Payman Langroudi: Like they corporatized. Yeah. They corporatized.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. [01:10:00] And now and it’s interesting like if you look, you know, one [01:10:05] of the final people from that era has just left and the interesting people are talking about are, you know, it’s the last bastion [01:10:10] of, of that particular company. And it’s met with [01:10:15] a little bit of, uh, there were good times. We had a good [01:10:20] laugh. I’m sure there’s reason and rationale for, you know, you can’t drink, you can’t [01:10:25] get dirt, you know, tell crude jokes and things like that. But I think [01:10:30] there is still an element of corporate.

Payman Langroudi: Corporate culture tends to be risk averse, for sure, and [01:10:35] sometimes risk averse first and foremost. Um, and whereas these come [01:10:40] these great companies, they don’t come they don’t they don’t get created by being risk averse. Right. They’re quite the [01:10:45] opposite. They are risk takers.

Joe Lovett: I think the company, if I, if I was [01:10:50] going to set up my own or join another company, I like the scrappers. [01:10:55] Yeah, I like the people, you know, like like you. You’re [01:11:00] always there. You’re always at the event. You’re always, you know, it could be 9:00, 10:00 at night, [01:11:05] but you’re at the bar, you’re talking to people, you’re building relationships. You’re understanding what their problems, their needs are. [01:11:10] I think with some of the big corporates, they move away from that. It’s like, right, it’s [01:11:15] 5:00, let’s go home. Yeah. You know, the show is finished. Time to pack up. Let’s [01:11:20] go. I know most of my my strongest [01:11:25] relationships are the ones that have [01:11:30] the most amount of fun with the ones that I can relate to them, the ones that I know about [01:11:35] their families, I know about their kids, and I and I, and I think sometimes people [01:11:40] get too far removed from that.

Payman Langroudi: So you don’t like the buttoned up corporate thing?

Joe Lovett: I [01:11:45] can’t do it.

Payman Langroudi: I get it.

Joe Lovett: I went to a funeral the other week.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, God.

Joe Lovett: It was quite funny, [01:11:50] actually. I was the only white guy. There was a black funeral, and [01:11:55] I was properly suited and booted. I felt so uncomfortable. I hate wearing [01:12:00] a suit these days. I absolutely loathe it. Anyway, my friend turned up and I said, look, please take [01:12:05] me to your mum and dad. I just want to pass on my condolences. And then I go, I’ll get back. I’ve got a meeting. And [01:12:10] we were walking through the room and everything like that, and he’s like, oh, this is my guy Joe and everything. And [01:12:15] I’m like, oh, come on, dude, I got to get out of here. Anyway, there’s a guy there and [01:12:20] he’s got a paper plate full of food and he’s eating chicken, right? And he finishes his [01:12:25] bit of chicken, throws it on the paint, and he passes it to me and he goes, take care of that [01:12:30] for me, will you, man?

Payman Langroudi: Like you’re the waiter. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: So I’m already feeling uncomfortable enough as [01:12:35] it is in my suit, you know? So I’ve gone. Okay. No problem. The minute [01:12:40] I’ve done that, they’ve all cracked up. You stupid idiot. Like, what are you doing? I was like, oh, no, I’ve [01:12:45] been completely stitched up. But yeah. No, I if and the minute I have to put [01:12:50] a suit on, I. Yeah, I just feel uncomfortable.

Payman Langroudi: These days, these days to wear a suit [01:12:55] all the time I remember. Yeah. Yeah. It’s one of those things once you stop, you just can’t go back to. [01:13:00] Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

Joe Lovett: I live in bees, man. It’s embarrassing.

Payman Langroudi: But other lessons you’ve learned from [01:13:05] companies.

Joe Lovett: From companies?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Anything. [01:13:10] Have you seen anything that felt like it was even better than [01:13:15] than FMC? Has a company. The culture, the way the people [01:13:20] were motivated or was at the peak of what you’ve seen.

Joe Lovett: It’s [01:13:25] difficult because you’re not in it. It’s [01:13:30] yeah, I’m not in it. I’m not seeing these people on a day to day. We were [01:13:35] the epitome of work hard. Play hard.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Lovett: I [01:13:40] don’t see anybody that is doing [01:13:45] it to that levels. We we probably. Here’s [01:13:50] me comparing myself to David Brent earlier. And I’m about to use a use [01:13:55] a David Brent type line. But we’ll probably play too hard from at times. [01:14:00] You know, there were things that went on that you would look at now and go, Jesus Christ, [01:14:05] like, if that was captured and put on Instagram, [01:14:10] you know, there’d be like group firings. So [01:14:15] it’s difficult to say. I don’t. I don’t [01:14:20] see that culture anymore, but not necessarily a bad thing.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the biggest mistake you’ve made [01:14:25] in your career?

Joe Lovett: Do you know what? Funnily [01:14:30] enough, you were involved.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, excellent.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. And I’m not just [01:14:35] saying this. So we talked a bit about Ken earlier. And [01:14:40] for those people that don’t know Ken, he was the founder and owner of FMC. [01:14:45] The F he was the F in Finlayson Media communications. [01:14:50] Anyway he started the company, sold it, bought it back, sold it [01:14:55] again. Bought it back. Shrewd, right. But when I [01:15:00] first started. He was in one of his times where [01:15:05] he wasn’t the owner of the company. And [01:15:10] we have a thing called schedule period at FMC. So [01:15:15] from September to December, people are working on their budgets for next year. What they’re going to do in terms [01:15:20] of their media plan and spend, say goodbye to your families, go out there and [01:15:25] sell, sell, sell, you know, length and breadth of the country, get to every single Dental company [01:15:30] and try and win business. Ken [01:15:35] then started a rival publication outside [01:15:40] of FMC Pete. Pete, is that.

Payman Langroudi: When you joined?

Joe Lovett: I was there beforehand, [01:15:45] so I was there a couple of years beforehand. And Julian and still to this day, I don’t [01:15:50] know if it was a white lie in order to light a fire under me, he [01:15:55] said, because a number of people went from FMC and joined PD. Right? [01:16:00] And he said the reason he never took you is because he doesn’t [01:16:05] think you’re up to it, right?

Payman Langroudi: Oh, that hurt. That must have hurt.

Joe Lovett: Ah, it [01:16:10] didn’t so much hurt, but it angered me and I was fuming. Right. [01:16:15] And it really lit a fire underneath me. And I really effective. Maybe from Julian, [01:16:20] right? I was driving up to 5:00 in the morning, 4 or 5 meetings a day, and I [01:16:25] was looking at the visitor books because it wasn’t these electronic logins. Then the visitor books, you had to sign [01:16:30] in, and I’d see I’d get them two days before I’d go, and [01:16:35] then two days before, three days before Tim. Tim Maloney. I’m like, damn it, they beat [01:16:40] me to it again. Are we driving? I’d get there and be like, yes, I’m here first. So because you’d see the log [01:16:45] book. Anyway, we were at an enlightened party, right? Which one? [01:16:50]

Payman Langroudi: Which town?

Joe Lovett: I can’t remember what year it was in London. Right. And I’d had a few to [01:16:55] drink. And I’m young, ignorant, obnoxious. And Ken [01:17:00] approaches me. And bear in mind, I. The reason I had an issue with Ken is because I’d never worked with him, and I felt that [01:17:05] he’d been saying these things about me. Anyway, he came up to me at this enlightened party and was like, Joe, [01:17:10] great to see you. I hear all sorts of good things. I hear you’re working really hard and doing a good job. And [01:17:15] I was a bit tipsy, young, full of vigour, you know, [01:17:20] ignorant kid, ignorant kid. I’m like, don’t you be talking [01:17:25] to me. You’ve got no idea about what I’m doing. You leave me alone. [01:17:30] You do your own thing. Oh, properly kicked off, I was like, [01:17:35] you know, pleading innocent. I never said those things. I never said those things. Um, [01:17:40] you know, it’s probably some choice language, right? Next [01:17:45] week, he bought PPD, comes through into [01:17:50] our office. Never seen anything like it. I mean, it was [01:17:55] it was a it was a tome. It wasn’t a publication. It was huge. Stuart Thompson [01:18:00] from um, uh, one of the rival publications at the time made the joke that when it [01:18:05] came through his letterbox, it killed his dog because it landed on his head. It was that heavy. And [01:18:10] I’m like, oh God, these guys have absolutely, like, kicked our ass. And [01:18:15] I’m like, ah, the enemy, you know, get pulled upstairs. This [01:18:20] is literally a week after I’ve kicked off. Guys, we’ve got some good news. All right. [01:18:25] You don’t have to worry anymore. Ken’s buying back the company. I was like.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, shit. [01:18:30]

Joe Lovett: Here’s me. I’m drunkenly kicked off with the guy the week before. And [01:18:35] the lesson I learned was right at the time, I [01:18:40] was playing checkers. Everybody else was playing chess, right? [01:18:45] There’s so much more going on the background. Sometimes you only see your [01:18:50] picture. You don’t see the full picture. That was a real big lesson for me that day. A real [01:18:55] big lesson. But off the back of a mistake. So yeah. Yeah. Big mistake.

Payman Langroudi: What [01:19:00] was your lowest day?

Joe Lovett: Personally [01:19:05] or professionally.

Payman Langroudi: Whichever [01:19:10] you want to talk about.

[TRANSITION]: Um. [01:19:15]

Joe Lovett: Yeah. [01:19:20] I mean, it would have been my time with, uh, [01:19:25] Global Dental collective and that coming to an end. Yeah, that [01:19:30] was, uh, really disappointing. Really disappointing because there had been a lot of, uh, [01:19:35] love and energy gone into that. So [01:19:40] to to walk away from that. Yeah. [01:19:45] It was it hurt.

Payman Langroudi: I bet because I, I enjoyed [01:19:50] you there.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, it was fun.

Payman Langroudi: I enjoyed having you there. [01:19:55]

Joe Lovett: It was, it was it was fun. And now when I look back on [01:20:00] it, um, I choose to look at the positives of it all, because, [01:20:05] Again. It was good to be part of something great. Um, [01:20:10] expanded my network, learned a lot from it, you know, and then also [01:20:15] was, uh, a stepping stone to being able to do fast tracking your future. So [01:20:20] I choose to look back at it positively.

Payman Langroudi: You got it. I mean, [01:20:25] look, life is full of problems like that, right? And and, you know, getting [01:20:30] the best out of it. Often. Often often. I was I was trying to talk to my son about this, like, [01:20:35] you know, I didn’t go to London to study dentistry, even [01:20:40] though I really wanted to. But then in Cardiff, where I did go, yeah, I met [01:20:45] my wife, I met Sanjay, and there would be no there would be no son of mine. There [01:20:50] would be no enlighten. Yeah. If I had gone to London like that. It’s [01:20:55] those sort of moments where I thought my whole world was over.

Joe Lovett: Yeah. At [01:21:00] that point, I would say for me, there was a [01:21:05] couple of vindicating moments off the back of, you know, being able to do fast [01:21:10] tracking of future was to, uh, get a, [01:21:15] uh, a message from Lorraine’s daughter, [01:21:20] you know, because the donation went to Saint Francis Hospital. That [01:21:25] really was a poignant moment then to get a letter from the [01:21:30] charity, you know, and to see how proud my [01:21:35] parents were, that felt like, okay, it’s so, so [01:21:40] corny, but things happen for a reason. These things have happened in order [01:21:45] to be able to do this, and we will do it again next year and we will, God [01:21:50] willing, raise double the amount of money for Operation Smiles. So I just think [01:21:55] it’s taking those negatives and trying to flip them on their head and, [01:22:00] and and build something even more positive.

Payman Langroudi: Things happen for a reason, God willing. [01:22:05] Are you? Um. Fatalistic. Are you religious?

Joe Lovett: No.

Payman Langroudi: Neither. [01:22:10]

Joe Lovett: No, I and I’m not not religious. I’m [01:22:15] the epitome of a lapsed Catholic. You know, we do our communion [01:22:20] and then we do our confirmation. The irony with the confirmation is it’s [01:22:25] supposed to be welcoming you into the church community. It’s 95% [01:22:30] for most Catholics. The last time they go to church. So very much a lapsed Catholic. My mum, [01:22:35] my mum and dad still go, but my brothers and sisters?

Payman Langroudi: No, I went to Catholic school. [01:22:40]

Joe Lovett: Did you? How did you find it?

Payman Langroudi: For 3 or 4 years? A very good school and [01:22:45] very disciplined because, I mean, I don’t know if being Catholic school made it that way.

Joe Lovett: Do you have Catholic guilt? [01:22:50] No. Okay, but I remember. Lucky you man.

Payman Langroudi: Hail Marys, I remember. [01:22:55] Okay. Ash Wednesday.

Joe Lovett: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, it’s so funny [01:23:00] because they would, they would, they would tell you, like they would put into your head. What is this? And [01:23:05] then the whole class would go gift from God. What is that? Yeah. And I remember [01:23:10] knowing all the answers to those, to those things.

Joe Lovett: When you do this eternal damnation. [01:23:15] You’re like, oh, what.

Payman Langroudi: Was that bit between heaven and hell? Purgatory. Purgatory?

Joe Lovett: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I used to [01:23:20] find purgatory. Really interesting idea.

Joe Lovett: I used to call it Coventry as a kid. But. [01:23:25]

Payman Langroudi: But what about the fatalistic. I mean, do you believe things happen for a reason?

Joe Lovett: The [01:23:30] older I get. Yeah. I’m not a spiritual person by any means, but I [01:23:35] believe that. Listen, if I if I try and do the right thing, and if [01:23:40] I try and keep it positive and I stick to my principles, more often than not, [01:23:45] things work out for the better. Yeah, of course you get the odd banana skin, [01:23:50] but that’s just that’s just life, right? You have challenges thrown at you. And [01:23:55] I think, like I say, if I remain positive, I keep that positive mindset [01:24:00] and I try and surround myself by good people. Then [01:24:05] the the trajectory is up. Where do you.

Payman Langroudi: Reckon you’ll be? Or what [01:24:10] would be an ideal sort of outlook for ten years time? Joe? [01:24:15]

Joe Lovett: Um. How old are you? I’m [01:24:20] 40, I turn 40. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Welcome to colonoscopy. [01:24:25]

Joe Lovett: Cake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had my 40th party, and it was quite funny, actually, [01:24:30] because it was brilliant, because I was able to get everybody from all walks of, [01:24:35] uh, all parts of my life. So, like my football team, they’re my old school friends, my gym friends. But [01:24:40] by far the most interesting were the Dental crowd. And [01:24:45] it’s quite funny because my friends were looking at these guys, you know, like Gin and Kirsch and John Nicholas, who [01:24:50] were like the antithesis of that, you know, pale male and stale dentist that they’re [01:24:55] used to coming and they’re like, who the hell are these guys? Like, these guys are dentists. Like, you’re joking. [01:25:00] You know, like, when did they become sexy and cool? So that was. Yeah. That was a great evening. Um, [01:25:05] what’s the next ten years?

Payman Langroudi: 50 year old? Yeah, 50 year old Joe.

Joe Lovett: Uh, [01:25:10] do you know what? If I’m doing the same thing, right? Uh, with a nice [01:25:15] clutch of clients, I still am able to add value. If I’m [01:25:20] able to put on a couple of events that people still really enjoy and get a lot [01:25:25] out of. I’ve got a couple of other projects that I’m developing, uh, [01:25:30] which, you know, may go well or may not go well, but, you know, idealistically, [01:25:35] in ten years time, if they’re off the ground and running. Yeah. I mean, [01:25:40] like, uh, it’s a blessing. What I do and what I’m [01:25:45] able to do. Look, like.

Payman Langroudi: You’re enjoying your.

Joe Lovett: Life. I, I really, really do. You really, really [01:25:50] do.

Payman Langroudi: You look like you’re enjoying your life back then as well, when you were at FMC. Because you were. Yeah.

Joe Lovett: But now. [01:25:55]

Payman Langroudi: Now there’s a there’s something about you. There’s a smile on your face that’s even broader. [01:26:00] Which is which is which is lovely to see because generally, as you get older, that sort of dulls down a little bit. No, [01:26:05] not not not not in your case. We’ve come to the end.

Joe Lovett: Dude, [01:26:10] it’s been a lot of fun. It has. I genuinely was really looking forward to this one. I wanted to come on Dental [01:26:15] Leaders for a long time. You and I have known each other.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you call me?

Joe Lovett: You’re not the.

Payman Langroudi: Type. You’re not [01:26:20] the.

Joe Lovett: Type to do that. To be asked rather than ask, you know. But you know, you and I have been good friends for the best [01:26:25] part of 20 years, in fact, actually, one final thing I know, and it was. And you taught [01:26:30] me another lesson, um, when we did that deal. So [01:26:35] circling back to what we were talking about at the beginning for the World Aesthetic Congress, one of the [01:26:40] parts of that deal was you used to sponsor the catering staff to wear [01:26:45] t shirts. Yeah. And, um, I remember I [01:26:50] took the t shirts home. I was living at home at the time. My mum washed them and ironed them. And then I gave [01:26:55] them back to you. And I remember you phoned me up and you were very like. It was really great to get that gratitude. [01:27:00] And I remember exactly the words you said above and beyond the call [01:27:05] of duty, dude. And for me, I think there’s a lesson in that. It was like, oh, I [01:27:10] learned a bit. Like, if you can put that little cherry on top of the cake, for sure. That kind of differentiates people. Remember [01:27:15] that. People remember it.

Payman Langroudi: People remember that. Very true man.

Joe Lovett: Well, I remember I’m not going to let you forget it, but [01:27:20] yeah. Thank you so much for your time. It’s a good.

Payman Langroudi: Finish. We’ll finish with our usual usual question. Fantasy [01:27:25] dinner party.

Joe Lovett: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Three guests, dead or alive.

Joe Lovett: You [01:27:30] know, like. What’s the word [01:27:35] I don’t really like, uh, celebrate celebrity. I’m [01:27:40] not really that fussed about it. I’m not bothered about icons. I always think when people answer this question like, oh, yeah, I’d like to go to [01:27:45] a dinner party with Genghis Khan. Like, what the hell am I going to talk to Genghis Khan about? Like, oh, [01:27:50] what about those guys over there in the Ming dynasty? What do you think they’re like, I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:27:55] who are you having?

Joe Lovett: I’m having. This is going to sound corny as hell, right? [01:28:00] I’m having my partner twice, and I. You know. [01:28:05]

[TRANSITION]: It’s so.

Joe Lovett: Cheesy and.

Payman Langroudi: Corny. No. I’m not. I’m not gonna lie. I’m not lying that she can come as well. You [01:28:10] need three others. I’m not allowing that. Why would you have your partner at one time where you’re not [01:28:15] going to have dinner with your partner? That’s the whole point of the question.

Joe Lovett: But I want her there. She’s absolutely hilarious. [01:28:20]

Payman Langroudi: Okay, okay. Yeah, I like that.

Joe Lovett: She’s your partner.

Payman Langroudi: Hi, doctor. Thais. Well done. [01:28:25]

Joe Lovett: Right. I know, I know, people are just going to [01:28:30] be retching now. Oh, that’s cool, that’s cool, that’s cool. But I’m so chill. [01:28:35] I find her hilarious. She’s good fun. She’s amazing. She’s great energy. She [01:28:40] always uplifted the room, but she always says to me, I’m not funny in English. I’m [01:28:45] funny in my native language, Spanish. And I’m like, no, I find it [01:28:50] funny. Anyway, we had, um, friends from Spain come stay some friends of mine. [01:28:55] And it’s my my friend and his wife and his two daughters. Right. And there’s [01:29:00] an she’s got an 18 year old and for want of a better phrase, the 18 year old is a bit of a cow, [01:29:05] right? She’s brilliant to us, but to our mum and dad, she’s very much a [01:29:10] teenager and she dictates the entire mood of the family. Right. Don’t, don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Send this port [01:29:15] to to.

Joe Lovett: Her. No no no no no no no no no. It’s cool, it’s cool. Like listen I would say this to them, you [01:29:20] know. No, no, I’m not telling tales out of school. All she wanted to do was come to Camden Market, [01:29:25] weirdly enough, and Notting Hill Market. But they came in the middle of that storm. Oh, yeah. [01:29:30] And honestly, it was hell out there, right? And then they cancelled the football. [01:29:35] They cancelled the Liverpool Everton match. Right. And I’m saying to these guys, look, the [01:29:40] only thing that stops us Brits from killing one another is the football, right, right. [01:29:45] And when they cancel the football, you do not want to be heading out into that. My friends. Having a full on panic attack. [01:29:50] She’s about to have a strop, right. Try to work that morning. She came back and [01:29:55] just totally took over. And she’s speaking in Spanish. Yeah. [01:30:00] And I can I pick her up? She’s, you know, calling me Mojito [01:30:05] and Gordo, you know, like, stupid little fat boy and stuff. So I’m picking up on this, but they’re in hysterics [01:30:10] and love it. She saved the day. They’re dancing to Latin music, and she was absolutely [01:30:15] brilliant. And she’s like that all the time, I guarantee you. Right. The only reason when we do these events, [01:30:20] people come along. It’s predominantly because of her, because she’s just such great energy. She’s amazing. [01:30:25] Yeah. Um, I want Julian English there. Really? Yeah. [01:30:30] He’s a dude, man. Like, let me tell you about Julian, right? So when I [01:30:35] was at FMC, we used to, like I said, we would get up early in the morning, [01:30:40] we would drive up to, let’s say we went to practice plan in North Wales and a big component [01:30:45] of what we would do when we would sell these, uh, advertising plans was [01:30:50] we’d intersperse it with editorial and there’d be some sort of agreement there that was blended, [01:30:55] right.

Joe Lovett: And we’d get up there in scheduled period and we’d be talking about the plan for [01:31:00] next year, and they go, we haven’t had these articles [01:31:05] and these months they haven’t turned up to this press launch. Right. You know, they [01:31:10] you know, there wasn’t this video done. I mean, like, honestly, I’d [01:31:15] be absolutely raging. You know, I’d be like, you worked hard all year and everything like that. And [01:31:20] I would be driving down the M6, the M1, fuming. As soon as I get in, I’m gonna swing [01:31:25] for that dude. I’m gonna give him a piece of my mind. I’m gonna throttle it. I’m gonna get him around the throat. I’m telling you [01:31:30] now, I’m going to get him around the throat, and enough is enough. He let me down. I’m working my chops [01:31:35] off him walking. The guy would be like, have his shirt off, [01:31:40] you know, trousers unbuttoned. And he’d be like, good day, old boy. And honestly, you [01:31:45] just melt. You do not know anybody with that With that level [01:31:50] of charm. He’s just such. He’s like, I think part of it is the way he looks. He’s this big, [01:31:55] like, lovable teddy bear. But yeah, how he would get away with it, I love it. Yeah, yeah. [01:32:00] And then. And then the the third and final one again I’m copping [01:32:05] out here. But it would be Emmett. Yeah. If we’re having a meal. He’s [01:32:10] fun. He’s I don’t know. He’s he’s not like me.

Payman Langroudi: He’s he’s a [01:32:15] cool dude.

Joe Lovett: He’s like un-pc in a time in which, you [01:32:20] know. Uh, but he’s got Heart of Gold. He’s got a heart of gold. [01:32:25] He’s kind of a nerd as well. Like, he’s into some interesting things. He’s just. I think [01:32:30] having those three there, we’re having a good time.

Payman Langroudi: Different to the usual Elon Musk, Gandhi [01:32:35] and, uh, Jesus Christ.

Joe Lovett: What am I going to talk [01:32:40] to LeBron James about, man? Or like, you know, I’m a Spurs fan. I want to sit there with Harry [01:32:45] Kane. Like I’m having fun. You know, like I don’t want to continue having fun.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:32:50] dedicate that one to Thais. Well done, Thais. Well done. Well done, well done for getting into that dinner party.

Joe Lovett: People. [01:32:55]

Payman Langroudi: What a.

Joe Lovett: Boring.

Payman Langroudi: Bastard. It’s been a massive pleasure.

Joe Lovett: Thank you so much [01:33:00] for having me.

Payman Langroudi: So much for coming.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, the [01:33:05] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [01:33:10] Your hosts Payman Langroudi [01:33:15] and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you [01:33:20] got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay [01:33:25] for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guests has had to say, because [01:33:30] I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. [01:33:35] And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value [01:33:40] out of it too. Thank you so so so much for listening.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating. [01:33:45]

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