From fleeing revolution-era Iran to building an eight-surgery practice in Norwich, Fariba Zolfaghari shares her remarkable journey of resilience and reinvention. 

Through arranged marriage, divorce, immigration, and starting over as a single mother, Fariba pursued her dental education in Sweden before establishing herself in the UK. 

She opens up about overcoming personal and professional challenges, including a difficult business partnership dissolution and bankruptcy, to emerge stronger. 

Today, she runs a thriving private practice while maintaining her passion for learning and digital dentistry.

 

In This Episode

00:01:50 – Backstory
00:16:35 – Journey to Sweden as an asylum seeker
00:19:35 – Dental education while raising two children
00:41:35 – Starting practice in Norwich
00:46:35 – Business partnership challenges
00:57:25 – Navigating bankruptcy and rebuilding
01:08:55 – Converting to private practice
01:14:35 – Current practice focus and digital dentistry
01:31:40 – Black box thinking
01:37:35 – Fantasy dinner party guests

 

About Fariba Zolfaghari

Fariba is a dentist who qualified in Sweden in 1997 before moving to the UK, where she established her practice in Norwich in 2000. 

She holds a master’s degree in orthodontics from Warwick University and has grown her practice into an eight-surgery facility. 

A champion of digital dentistry and continuing education, she focuses on orthodontics, cosmetic dentistry, and full-mouth rehabilitation while mentoring younger dentists.

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[VOICE]: This [00:00:25] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you get [00:00:30] to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:35] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav [00:00:40] Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Fariborz Zolfaghari [00:00:45] onto the podcast. Uh Fariba is a dentist who [00:00:50] had a turbulent journey to dentistry in the first place. And then, [00:00:55] you know, girlboss, um, started her own her own practice in 2000, [00:01:00] in Norwich. Dental. And it’s now a [00:01:05] thriving eight surgery practice. I see far more on the sort of lecture circuit. [00:01:10] Still going, still still learning, still curious. Which is so amazing to [00:01:15] see. Massive pleasure to have you. Thanks for coming.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Thank you for having me. Payman.

Payman Langroudi: So, um, [00:01:20] I like to ask a particular question that’s on my mind. Otherwise [00:01:25] I won’t, I won’t say it. And then I’ll be waiting to say it all the time and all of that. It’s [00:01:30] around this question of curiosity for the work. So [00:01:35] a lot of people, they get to a certain point and then they don’t continue to improve. [00:01:40] But some people, like you, continue to come and learn [00:01:45] and keep going. And in the educational sense, what’s [00:01:50] different about you that that makes you do that? And where the I’d say the majority [00:01:55] of people settle into a pattern and stay in that pattern.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [00:02:00] think I would always like [00:02:05] to give my patients the best service that I [00:02:10] possibly could, and I always want to keep myself [00:02:15] on the forefront of dentistry, at least having the knowledge [00:02:20] to be able to advise my patients about, even if I [00:02:25] don’t have the skills I would like to know.

Payman Langroudi: About, to send them.

Fariba Zolfaghari: An order, [00:02:30] where to send them, what’s possible. What’s possible.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but why, why why you [00:02:35] like that? And other people, I mean, no one, no, [00:02:40] no dentist is going to sit in front of me and say, I don’t want to know what’s the latest, but, you know, it’s one of the things [00:02:45] that in our profession tends to happen. I, by the way, the best way to stay interested in being a dentist [00:02:50] is to get better. I completely understand that. But, you know, are [00:02:55] you that type in every endeavour that you do or.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely [00:03:00] I am. I always want to be better than I was yesterday. Really [00:03:05] always, always in all aspects of my life.

Payman Langroudi: And so why? [00:03:10]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Because I want to grow personally [00:03:15] and in my professional field as [00:03:20] well. I think it’s very important for one’s, [00:03:25] um, confidence for one’s [00:03:30] growth in life as well as, um, in, [00:03:35] in our profession.

Payman Langroudi: I still I’m still not happy with the answer. [00:03:40] It’s not that everything you’re saying makes a lot of sense. [00:03:45] Yeah, but the question of why you found it important [00:03:50] to be the best. Other people want to be to be the quickest or [00:03:55] the kindest, or the richest, or the or the laziest or the, you [00:04:00] know, you continuing to improve at this point? I don’t see I’m on the education circuit a lot. You know, [00:04:05] I go to, you know, so many events and there’s a lot of young people at the events, loads [00:04:10] and loads.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Dentistry is evolving, isn’t it? Yeah. And you have to follow [00:04:15] with these. Yeah. Development of the equipments [00:04:20] and techniques in dentistry and the research [00:04:25] a lot of researches and that is happening. So you want to always be [00:04:30] knowing what’s going on about your [00:04:35] profession that you are in. I don’t want to be asked [00:04:40] a question from a patient and I said I will Google it for you. [00:04:45] Yeah, yeah, at least I have an idea to be able [00:04:50] to provide Aid guidance in that respect, and I think I always [00:04:55] wanted to improve myself in my profession and [00:05:00] personally as well. Um, so you said you’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Got a life coach?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes [00:05:05] I do.

Payman Langroudi: When did that start?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Um, I started [00:05:10] early this year.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about that. I mean, would you recommend it?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I would highly [00:05:15] recommend it.

Payman Langroudi: What happens? What does it mean? A life coach. What does that mean?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Well, um, [00:05:20] because of the events that has [00:05:25] happened to me all over the years. Um, I think there were [00:05:30] still issues that not healed with [00:05:35] myself. Okay. And, um, I realised that [00:05:40] I got a a need [00:05:45] to speak about those issues and to get a the guidance, [00:05:50] how I could help myself to heal, basically, [00:05:55] and to get over those issues. And because you [00:06:00] always want to know why it happened, why me and [00:06:05] why the other people behaved like they did. And. [00:06:10] Literally, it was the sadness [00:06:15] and the depression that I used to get. And [00:06:20] that’s one of the reasons I thought that I [00:06:25] need to speak with somebody to help me, guide me and go [00:06:30] through the healing process.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the difference in a life coach and a therapist? Is it similar [00:06:35] or is it different?

Fariba Zolfaghari: A life coach? It [00:06:40] will change your behaviour based [00:06:45] on what your needs Edith are a therapist. [00:06:50] You go and speak to them and they listen [00:06:55] to you. But they probably wouldn’t go deep into the foundation [00:07:00] of the problem. They can listen to you and give [00:07:05] you some guidance. But the life coach, it gives you [00:07:10] guidance, gives you tactics and tactics to deal with your [00:07:15] issues, even the daily issues that you have. And [00:07:20] luckily, she is not only a life coach, she is my business coach as well. So [00:07:25] I will, um, share with her um, day [00:07:30] by day issues. We have a session every, every week and she [00:07:35] gives me tasks to do. And, um, if I put the work in, we [00:07:40] will get the result.

Payman Langroudi: It’s excellent. That means you’ve still got a mentor now? Yeah. [00:07:45] And are you a you a mentor for other people too? Must be.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I am in the practice. [00:07:50] Yeah, absolutely. Because we have got several young dentists, [00:07:55] um, that have joined the practice. And obviously [00:08:00] clinically I have been teaching them, mentoring them. [00:08:05] Um, and that’s a great reward because I can see [00:08:10] the growth in.

Payman Langroudi: What kind of a boss are you?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think I am a [00:08:15] good boss. Yeah, I think I am. Do you enjoy.

Payman Langroudi: Being a.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Boss? I enjoy [00:08:20] what I’m doing. It’s at some points [00:08:25] it’s really hard because you’re dealing with people. You’re dealing with personalities [00:08:30] and having to deal with different personalities. [00:08:35] Sometimes you have to have a knowledge, [00:08:40] um, how to deal with people. A little bit of bit of psychology, [00:08:45] a little bit of background of knowing the individual and [00:08:50] coming down to their level when you want something [00:08:55] done or when you are speaking to them about the conflict.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:09:00] there isn’t anyone else that you’re partnered with. Now in the practice, it’s just.

Fariba Zolfaghari: You, [00:09:05] just.

Payman Langroudi: Me. It’s a little bit lonely sometimes when it’s you’re the only one, right? Hundred percent. I mean, I’m [00:09:10] in a big partnership. There’s four of us, but but I do. But it means I have [00:09:15] to split the profits four ways as well. Right. But. But I do recognise when things are really bad. [00:09:20] That’s when you call your partner and that’s not available. I guess you call your business coach. [00:09:25]

Fariba Zolfaghari: I do now, I do now, but a lot of time I [00:09:30] do share with my partner, who has had his own business [00:09:35] for many, many years. Um, and he’s very wise [00:09:40] and advised me about the issues, so I’m [00:09:45] quite lucky in that respect.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to the usual way we normally start this podcast. [00:09:50] Tell me about your childhood. What kind of a kid were you? Where were you? What happened in [00:09:55] your childhood that eventually ended up in dentistry? Well, that. That journey.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [00:10:00] was a loved child [00:10:05] and we had a family of five. [00:10:10] Uh, me and my two sisters and brother. Um, [00:10:15] my parents divorced at the age of 11 years [00:10:20] old. And at that time, um, it was really [00:10:25] taboo to talk about it at the school, in the society, in Iran. [00:10:30] And the culture doesn’t look very good. Um, [00:10:35] on divorce. So it was a shame that I carried with me [00:10:40] all over up to the adulthood. And [00:10:45] then obviously, when I finished [00:10:50] my A-level in Iran, um, it was revolution [00:10:55] and universities were closed. There was no [00:11:00] job opportunities for women. Um, as a result, I [00:11:05] had to marry a person [00:11:10] that was decided for me. So basically an arranged [00:11:15] marriage by my parents.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me, tell me just that that were [00:11:20] you at that time thinking this isn’t what I want? Or were you thinking, were you just playing the game?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Did I [00:11:25] did.

Payman Langroudi: They mention it to them and.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Mentioned it? And I broke the engagement. [00:11:30] But unfortunately, again, that’s like bringing shame to [00:11:35] your family. Um, and it wasn’t looked at, um, [00:11:40] very well. Um, in, in my culture. Um, so as [00:11:45] a result, I had to take it back and I had to marry. Um, [00:11:50] but like.

Payman Langroudi: How negative were you about it out of out of ten, were you, like 11 out of ten? [00:11:55] Negative. Or were you, like three and a half? Like, what was it? How bad was it for you that [00:12:00] idea. And before, before even getting into the relationship, the idea of not picking your own [00:12:05] husband.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was really.

Payman Langroudi: Bad.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was really bad. Really hard. Because, [00:12:10] um. I love somebody else. Oh. Did you? I did one [00:12:15] of my cousins. Um, but unfortunately, it [00:12:20] wasn’t approved by my parents. Yeah. Um, so it didn’t [00:12:25] go anywhere. Yeah. As a result, I had to accept what they [00:12:30] chose for me. Um, and I said to myself, okay, I [00:12:35] will go on with this and I will make it work. [00:12:40] I have to accept.

Payman Langroudi: What other choice did you have?

Fariba Zolfaghari: There was none. No [00:12:45] other choice. Then.

Payman Langroudi: 3 or 4 years into that war started in Iran [00:12:50] with Iraq. That’s right. Is it 3 or 4 years after that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right. Yeah. That’s right.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:12:55] so you just tell me that. Did you did you feel war was on or. No. You [00:13:00] were in a big city. I mean.

Fariba Zolfaghari: In my city. It wasn’t that [00:13:05] much as other places, but the hardship was the regime. [00:13:10] Yeah. Because we weren’t allowed [00:13:15] to be free as a woman. Yeah. You had to cover [00:13:20] yourself. And I remember at one point, um, we [00:13:25] had a long, um, dress with hijab [00:13:30] with, you know, cover over your head and hair. And I was going [00:13:35] with my youngest sister, who was nine years old, just [00:13:40] to pop down to the shop and get some chocolate for her. [00:13:45] And in my mother’s road, [00:13:50] there were cyclists, the regime’s [00:13:55] soldiers, with knife going on [00:14:00] me and wanted to, you know, attack me. So [00:14:05] that was a horrible event that happened. And as [00:14:10] a result of a few other things like that, and obviously [00:14:15] no freedom of speech, no.

Payman Langroudi: Freedom, you must remember pre-revolution [00:14:20] Iran. You must have been 15, 16, 17 around even as a [00:14:25] six year old, I remember that feeling of, uh, building works everywhere, skyscrapers [00:14:30] going up and a bit like, I don’t know, now you see Dubai or Dubai or something?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. [00:14:35]

Payman Langroudi: Optimism of a exploding economy and and so on. Do [00:14:40] you remember what was the feeling of the people around you regarding revolution? [00:14:45] Was it was the feeling optimistic at first before or. [00:14:50]

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was optimistic. It was optimistic.

Payman Langroudi: Because the Shah was a [00:14:55] dictator and that. Absolutely. But then did you not see the religious ones coming in [00:15:00] immediately?

Fariba Zolfaghari: We, we we were promised a lot of stuff. [00:15:05]

Payman Langroudi: Democracy.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. We were promised a lot of stuff that we we [00:15:10] all believed in. And then when they got their foot [00:15:15] in Iran.

Payman Langroudi: Suddenly everything.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Changed. Everything changed to the [00:15:20] worse. Do you remember.

Payman Langroudi: The revolution itself? Do you. Do you remember? I remember a six year old [00:15:25] trying to walk in the street. And I remember Chinook, you know, the double, double helicopters flying around [00:15:30] just before the Shah left. And then? And then I remember [00:15:35] statues being pushed over, you know. Yes. Because there were a lot of statues of the show [00:15:40] around. Around the place. And then I remember the fire. [00:15:45] There was fire in the cinema. We had hundreds of people died. Yeah. And it was like a [00:15:50] moment, that moment where suddenly everything changed.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I remember everything exactly [00:15:55] as you say. And we were all so [00:16:00] terrified of what was going to happen to all of us. [00:16:05] I mean, as as a young girl. Yeah. And you were [00:16:10] fearful for your life because at any time you [00:16:15] would have been attacked either by the mullahs or the free for. [00:16:20]

Payman Langroudi: All for a bit, wasn’t.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It? Yeah. By. Yeah. By people that were fighting.

Payman Langroudi: So then [00:16:25] war broke out and you decided you’re going to try and run away. Try and try and get away from war. [00:16:30] Of course. And Sweden was the only I mean, maybe for listeners, the reason why [00:16:35] there are so many Swedish Iranian dentists is because Sweden [00:16:40] was the only country that was even thinking about allowing anyone to to run away.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. [00:16:45] Sweden was the only country that would allow [00:16:50] you to be immigrant there, to go there.

Payman Langroudi: As refugee. [00:16:55]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Status. Every asylum seeker, asylum seeker, asylum seeker.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:17:00] tell me about that process. I mean, so you got to [00:17:05] Sweden. What was your first impressions of Sweden?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Very cold.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:17:10]

Fariba Zolfaghari: And the language was really hard to understand. Yeah. [00:17:15] It was. It is a completely different alphabets. [00:17:20] Yeah. Completely different pronunciations. And very [00:17:25] kind people. Very hospitable. We [00:17:30] were welcomed to their country and we were treated really [00:17:35] well as a family. Because I was married with a daughter who was [00:17:40] three years old.

Payman Langroudi: So now when you now that sort of immigration [00:17:45] and asylum seekers and refugees have been sort of weaponised by [00:17:50] politicians, it’s we’re in that phase of, of the cycle, right. Where, [00:17:55] where that’s become a thing again. How do you feel when when you [00:18:00] see you know, they talk about the boats coming over the, the channel [00:18:05] when you see someone on that boat, just do you, do you feel differently to the narrative [00:18:10] that they’re saying on I do on the TV?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I do absolutely, because [00:18:15] I was at one one of them in my, um, [00:18:20] younger age. I was one of them. I wanted to flee my country [00:18:25] to get to the freedom. I was one of them. So yes, [00:18:30] I feel for them. Definitely.

Payman Langroudi: So what happened next? [00:18:35]

Fariba Zolfaghari: So then I started to go to school to learn [00:18:40] the Swedish language and my degree [00:18:45] a level wasn’t approved in Sweden. So I had to go through the [00:18:50] whole A-level process again with Swedish [00:18:55] language. And I wanted to study medicine [00:19:00] because in my family we had a lot. My uncle was [00:19:05] a surgeon and my mother’s brother. They [00:19:10] both were doctors and veterinary surgeons. [00:19:15] So you know how Iranian culture is. You know, [00:19:20] it’s instilled in you that you either a dentist, doctor or [00:19:25] engineer. So I wanted to do medicine. But medicine [00:19:30] in Sweden is a very long years, and I had [00:19:35] two children, and I didn’t want to spend [00:19:40] more time outside of the house than I already [00:19:45] had done. So I chose dentistry because it’s you [00:19:50] go in the morning and you come home in the evening, and you don’t have to spend [00:19:55] in the hospital doing the shifts and doing all of the emergency [00:20:00] work. So yes, I started [00:20:05] the university school.

Payman Langroudi: And I think, you know, just to go back to the [00:20:10] asylum seeker thing for a second, I don’t want to dwell on it here, but we’ve [00:20:15] got a family member who works at UN, and she was saying that, [00:20:20] you know, when you see an asylum seeker. Often you don’t think [00:20:25] that their uncle is a surgeon. The brother is a veterinary. The you just think [00:20:30] is someone who’s running away, right? You don’t think about the actual story. And she [00:20:35] was saying she was working in Syria for a while, and she was saying the one of the heartbreaking things [00:20:40] was you’d get like a lawyer and a doctor who were married [00:20:45] and with their 11 year old kid and the 11 year old [00:20:50] kid was illiterate, didn’t know how to read and write because they were, for the [00:20:55] last four years, running around trying to just save their lives. Yeah. [00:21:00] And and you know, again, that that whole thing about the immigrant. Right. [00:21:05] You must remember in the UK when it was the single mum was the problem.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. [00:21:10]

Payman Langroudi: Do you remember that? Were you in Sweden? Maybe.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Back then I think I was in Sweden.

Payman Langroudi: The single mum was became [00:21:15] the thing. Oh, all these people, they want to get pregnant. However, they, you know, as [00:21:20] weaponise that story, you know. And now. Now that story’s gone. Now we’ve got this [00:21:25] story weaponized. Okay, so you decided dentistry. Where [00:21:30] were you living? In Sweden. Which part of Sweden were you? In?

Fariba Zolfaghari: The north of Sweden.

Payman Langroudi: Chilly, cold.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Very cold. [00:21:35] Dark, dark. And nine months of the year you had white snow [00:21:40] all over.

Payman Langroudi: So what’s your view on the difference in the society in Sweden to here? [00:21:45]

Fariba Zolfaghari: It’s very socialist [00:21:50] over there. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So high taxes. High, high, high services. [00:21:55]

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right. And the equality [00:22:00] is followed. You know, wherever you [00:22:05] are, whoever you are, you’re equal to the Prime Minister. You’re equal [00:22:10] to the doctors. You’re equal to your dentist because the income, [00:22:15] it doesn’t differ much. Um, so in that aspect it’s [00:22:20] completely different to UK.

Payman Langroudi: But what does that mean day to day? Does [00:22:25] that mean that society’s like a better place to live or not or not necessarily. [00:22:30] Because here’s quite the opposite. Right here is very much based on your level in society. [00:22:35] And, um, you know, my Swedish distributor I was telling him about, [00:22:40] oh, when he came here, I said, oh, we go to so-and-so to members club. Private members club. And [00:22:45] he said, Just in Stockholm, it just wouldn’t work. No one wants to be special above the rest. Everyone [00:22:50] wants to be the same. Yeah, totally different society, right?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. I think it [00:22:55] is a better society because then there is no competition. [00:23:00] Um, then there is no rushing, rushing, [00:23:05] rushing to get richer and get richer and get [00:23:10] to the next thing that you want to get the money, you want to get the.

Payman Langroudi: You know, [00:23:15] some people talk about socialism. They say, oh, socialism makes people not want [00:23:20] to be entrepreneurs and not want to make money or, you know, go forward. But [00:23:25] Sweden, some of the best companies in the world have come out of Sweden, right? Yes. They are in amongst all [00:23:30] of this. Yeah. Yes. Spotify or whatever. There’s several there’s several huge companies coming [00:23:35] out of Sweden. In fact, it’s a tech hub and they’ve really pulled it off. So [00:23:40] what’s the problem with Sweden? Why are you here? I mean, the [00:23:45] the.

Fariba Zolfaghari: So the reason I’m here because when I qualified in. No, no, but.

Payman Langroudi: Not not practically. [00:23:50] I mean, what’s the what’s better about here compared to Sweden?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Because you [00:23:55] can grow.

Payman Langroudi: But why can’t you grow there? You can’t, you can’t, you can’t.

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, [00:24:00] you can’t grow as you grow here.

Payman Langroudi: Can’t explain it to me. People [00:24:05] don’t put their head above the parapet. Is that is that what it is? [00:24:10]

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s it. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do people shoot people down who put their head above? Yes. You won’t get.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Anywhere.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:24:15] really? Really? I never knew that. And how about how about in terms of [00:24:20] the country, would you say as an immigrant, you’re more accepted there than [00:24:25] here?

Fariba Zolfaghari: You are accepted more in in Sweden. But there [00:24:30] is also the other side of the immigrants, where [00:24:35] there is a lot of racism as well in different areas in Sweden. [00:24:40]

Payman Langroudi: More than here.

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, I think equal.

Payman Langroudi: But a different character, [00:24:45] my understanding, a different character of racism. Like like someone told me, yeah, if the guy, [00:24:50] he’ll just tell you. Just tell you I don’t ride in taxis that are driven by immigrants. [00:24:55] Yeah. And he said they’re they’re just they’re totally cool with saying it. [00:25:00] Whereas here there may be racism that people just don’t talk about. Is that right? Or is that not right? [00:25:05] Well.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I’ll give you an example. In the new [00:25:10] universities, there were a lot of The Iranian studied [00:25:15] dentistry. And we found one of the professors, [00:25:20] um, that that was our teachers, [00:25:25] um, had this racism about her, [00:25:30] and it didn’t pass that easy. Iranian [00:25:35] students, and you had to be one of the best and [00:25:40] pass all her exams orally and written, uh, [00:25:45] to be able to pass that. So I think [00:25:50] it’s it’s more not an obvious racism. [00:25:55] It’s, it’s quite a hidden.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, I thought it was the other way around. Oh [00:26:00] no. I guess you get both. You both.

Fariba Zolfaghari: You get both. [00:26:05] Definitely. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so then the struggle to get into dental school, is [00:26:10] it difficult? It must have been.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It is very hard.

Payman Langroudi: So you had to learn the language?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I had to [00:26:15] learn the language. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do your equivalent of A-levels in Sweden? Well, within [00:26:20] a couple of years.

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Oh my goodness. And applied to dentistry and then get into [00:26:25] dentistry and then discuss biochemistry, physiology and Swedish.

Fariba Zolfaghari: In Swedish.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:26:30] did you do all of that in, in that sort of time frame? I did. Wow.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And there [00:26:35] is.

Payman Langroudi: And who was looking after the kids? I mean, what was what was the. Tell me the day to day how [00:26:40] you were studying.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. So when when I studied, I started to study. I had [00:26:45] obviously my ex-husband. And we obviously managed in between us [00:26:50] and to take care of the children and the house chores and what have you. Was he working? [00:26:55] He was working, um, and the second year [00:27:00] I was in the, um, school university. Um, [00:27:05] obviously we had disagreements over the years, and I [00:27:10] divorce him.

Payman Langroudi: In the second year of dentistry?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. Wow. [00:27:15] So I had my two daughters. How old were they? Um, four [00:27:20] and 11. And I had to bring them up at the [00:27:25] same time as I was studying. Um, can I ask.

Payman Langroudi: A silly, stupid [00:27:30] question? Why did you have the four year old? I know you love her and all that, but was that on purpose or by [00:27:35] mistake?

Fariba Zolfaghari: You said that again.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you have the second child?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, that [00:27:40] was a mistake. I wanted my daughter to have a sibling.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:27:45] have someone, yes. Even though you weren’t happy in the relationship. Yes, yes.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Interesting. Because [00:27:50] I have got sisters and brothers and they are [00:27:55] always so close and supporting each other. And [00:28:00] I. Because she was my first daughter, she was seven years old. And [00:28:05] I was just thinking, if something happens to any of us, she [00:28:10] wouldn’t have anyone to be with her and support [00:28:15] her. Supporting each other. So therefore, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think the definition of love, isn’t it, [00:28:20] to put their interests in front of your own interests.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And I couldn’t imagine [00:28:25] my daughter being the only child. And [00:28:30] obviously the another reason is that I wanted the relationship to [00:28:35] work.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Okay. So by bringing [00:28:40] another child.

Payman Langroudi: You thought that would fix it?

Fariba Zolfaghari: You were hoping that. Yes, [00:28:45] that would hopefully. But do you give.

Payman Langroudi: Do you give the advice that that never fixes it? [00:28:50] It makes it worse. Right? Yes. Now there’s more stuff to do in the same nightmare [00:28:55] situation.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. But the first reason was for my daughter. [00:29:00] The second one, which is following is.

Payman Langroudi: So how did that divorce go? How did [00:29:05] that happen? How did that. Talk me through it?

Fariba Zolfaghari: What happened? Yes. So I had to divorce [00:29:10] him because we didn’t get anywhere with each other. So [00:29:15] much different personality. Because obviously, being [00:29:20] in a arranged marriage, you never chose. [00:29:25]

Payman Langroudi: Was he older than you as well?

Fariba Zolfaghari: He was. How much? 13 years older than me.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, go [00:29:30] on then.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Go on. And then, obviously, um, I decided [00:29:35] that I need to separate divorce. Um, [00:29:40] because he didn’t want me to be an independent [00:29:45] woman, be an educated woman, and, [00:29:50] um, controlling as well.

Payman Langroudi: You know, when your parents [00:29:55] recommended this guy, did they not were they not thinking around that question? Oh, [00:30:00] they didn’t judge him, right? They didn’t realise or know he became insecure [00:30:05] halfway through. Why? Why would they recommend this guy if he wasn’t?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think they [00:30:10] went after a that. He is coming [00:30:15] from a very good family.

Payman Langroudi: They took it for granted that he would be okay after that. [00:30:20] Oh, interesting.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And obviously during the time of, um, [00:30:25] engagement, um, no one, no one will. Yeah. No [00:30:30] one will show themselves that how they are, you know, um, [00:30:35] how they will behave in, in a marriage towards your daughter.

Payman Langroudi: It talks to the current [00:30:40] situation. Being in dentistry is one of those things. If you’re a woman in dentistry, it’s very [00:30:45] possible that you’re the primary breadwinner in a family because it dentist makes good [00:30:50] money, even. By the way, hygienists come across a lot of hygienists who are the mortgage payer. [00:30:55] That’s right in their house. It talks to this question of, you know, the traditional [00:31:00] roles of, you know, man and woman. How much? How [00:31:05] many women were only staying in the relationship for financial security [00:31:10] when they actually wanted out? Number one. But number two, [00:31:15] what is the art of being a woman who [00:31:20] earns more than her partner? How do you do that with elegance? Because [00:31:25] men want respect. That’s [00:31:30] what a man wants. Respect. And if a woman earns more than the man, he’s just [00:31:35] intrinsically has lost a little bit of respect. So what [00:31:40] should the woman do or the man do to make that relationship work? [00:31:45] I think of many of I know ten people in my circle where the woman is, [00:31:50] is, is the breadwinner. I can only think of one out of the ten where they’re pulling it off. [00:31:55] What are your what are your thoughts around that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think love [00:32:00] Of if you.

Payman Langroudi: Love conquers all.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Conquers all. If you love [00:32:05] and respect your partner, that would never come into question. [00:32:10]

Payman Langroudi: But you do get my point.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I do.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:32:15] I mean I mean, okay. Love is all well and good, but tactically. In [00:32:20] a relationship where the woman is earning more than the man, what [00:32:25] should the woman do a little bit more or less of? To make that relationship work.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Just [00:32:30] be humble about it. Just look at it as [00:32:35] yourself. You’re treating yourself. You know it’s not a separate [00:32:40] human being from you. If that’s why you’re living together. And [00:32:45] by the.

Payman Langroudi: Way, also the way the law sees it. So tell me what happened. [00:32:50] What happened regarding that? Your divorce legally. [00:32:55]

Fariba Zolfaghari: What happened legally in Sweden? It went [00:33:00] really well.

Payman Langroudi: By the way. At this point you were just a student. You weren’t earning anything.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I wasn’t. [00:33:05] No. And it went really quickly. And, um, [00:33:10] the children stayed with me and they would go and see their father, um, [00:33:15] every couple of weeks and if, if anything, um, [00:33:20] but, um. Yeah, that that’s very easy in Sweden. [00:33:25] Um, it’s much more difficult [00:33:30] if you have got like here business together, houses together, [00:33:35] properties together.

Payman Langroudi: Which we’ll get to, I’m sure. Um, so then [00:33:40] you became a dentist?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Uneventfully. [00:33:45]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Who paid? Who paid? Did Sweden pay for that? Sweden. It’s free. [00:33:50]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Free? No, no. You get a student loan and [00:33:55] you just, um.

Payman Langroudi: Finish.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. Payback. I’m still paying it back. [00:34:00]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So you became a dentist? Yes. How did that feel?

Fariba Zolfaghari: It [00:34:05] felt great. Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: Must have felt.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Great.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing to go to the struggle of [00:34:10] all those things.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was really hard because I had my two daughters. Um, [00:34:15] I didn’t sleep well because I had to study [00:34:20] night time early mornings. Because I had to take care of their school [00:34:25] work and take them to school, feed them their [00:34:30] clothing, and, you know, everything that a mother would do. Um, [00:34:35] so it was a good achievement for me. It was really [00:34:40] good. And I did it on my own. I didn’t have anyone to help me. And [00:34:45] and that’s. I am proud of myself doing [00:34:50] that should be.

Payman Langroudi: Do you now? I mean, now you’ve had your own daughters. They’ve got married. And [00:34:55] have they? Some of them. One of them, maybe. Someone got married? Yeah. You’ve had your own daughters. They’ve got married. [00:35:00] Maybe they’ve got children even. They have? Yes. Excellent. So do you have now some empathy with your [00:35:05] parents as far as as far as they were doing their best or something? [00:35:10]

Fariba Zolfaghari: I do, I do. I had quite a resentment towards my, [00:35:15] my parents because I wasn’t happy in [00:35:20] my first marriage at all. And I had the resentment towards [00:35:25] my parents. And when I got my children, [00:35:30] I started to forgive my parents for what they [00:35:35] did. Um.

Payman Langroudi: So when it came to your [00:35:40] children having getting married, for instance, were you really sort of [00:35:45] trying to overcompensate and say, it’s completely up to you? I did, [00:35:50] I don’t want to say anything about it.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think I did to him. My first [00:35:55] daughter got married, and, um, [00:36:00] I didn’t have anything to say about it because obviously she was brought up in Sweden. [00:36:05] Yeah. Freedom. And then UK again. Freedom. Westernised, [00:36:10] um, culture, you.

Payman Langroudi: Know, but it’s a funny thing. Okay. You didn’t have anything to say about [00:36:15] it, but, you know, what about what is being a parent if it’s not saying something? [00:36:20] Yeah. Like if, you know, people say, oh, I let my children do whatever they want to study themselves, [00:36:25] they can decide, all right, they’re 14 or [00:36:30] 17. They decide they’re not deciding. You still have to say something, right?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. I think you [00:36:35] are there to guide them and direct them. But then you have [00:36:40] to let them do their own mistakes, do their own trial. Yeah. [00:36:45] And find out about the life lessons for themselves. You [00:36:50] cannot hold their hands forever.

Payman Langroudi: I want to continue with the story, but I’m [00:36:55] also really interested in the relationship with the grandchild compared to a child. [00:37:00] Like what? Apart from the obvious. What else can you like? What can [00:37:05] you what? What can you tell me about the difference between a grandchild and a child?

Fariba Zolfaghari: It [00:37:10] is amazing because you always compare them to their parents. [00:37:15] Really? Yes you do. And you remember? [00:37:20]

Payman Langroudi: They remind you. Remind you of their parents when they were kids?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. Really? Yeah. And it [00:37:25] is like they’re they’re more dear [00:37:30] than even your your children.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I know that that I know. [00:37:35] And you don’t even get a hello anymore straight around me to my kids. [00:37:40] But but also, I think that the most beautiful thing about having children probably, [00:37:45] is that the relationship between your parent and your child.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. Solutely. It’s, [00:37:50] um. We, me and my two daughters. We have an amazing relationship [00:37:55] because I was really young when I got my first child, and [00:38:00] again, young when I got my second one. And because [00:38:05] they have seen my struggles through life [00:38:10] and they have always been with me and [00:38:15] I had to have them, um, safe in a safety always, [00:38:20] and drag them everywhere with myself. And so we [00:38:25] are very close.

Payman Langroudi: Are they dentists?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. And no. One of them is [00:38:30] a lawyer and the other one is working for [00:38:35] insurance in America.

Payman Langroudi: Did you not think then did you say dentist [00:38:40] or you were there? Was there any chance that they were.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Going to be? My first daughter hated [00:38:45] university school, So she [00:38:50] was really artistic and she went to be a very famous [00:38:55] hairdresser in, in my city, Norwich. [00:39:00] Then she fell in love with an American guy and she moved to America. And [00:39:05] then she fell pregnant. She was a [00:39:10] house mom, a housewife, and she [00:39:15] didn’t train to be an insurance, uh, broker [00:39:20] in America and working for medical insurance. [00:39:25] And, um, my second daughter, [00:39:30] um, she went to be, uh, a doctor [00:39:35] in medicine, and. But she came [00:39:40] back from America. She went to America to study, and, um, [00:39:45] she came back and said, do you know, mom, I will study this medicine [00:39:50] and I will graduate. I get my license, I will give it to you, [00:39:55] but it is not for me. I said, [00:40:00] no, you don’t have to study. You don’t have to struggle. You [00:40:05] study what you want to, but you need to study something. And [00:40:10] she said, okay, I go down [00:40:15] the road of being a lawyer. So she studied really hard and [00:40:20] very successful. And she now. [00:40:25]

Payman Langroudi: Was a corporate.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Lawyer. Yes, for American Firm. Well, for a few [00:40:30] years. And, um, she worked really hard. There [00:40:35] was really long hours up to morning deadlines. Yeah. [00:40:40] So she was fed up with the corporate life. [00:40:45] Yeah. Um. And now she has opened her own business. [00:40:50] Dog grooming and dog care business in, um, [00:40:55] Battersea in London.

Payman Langroudi: Really?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. And, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Thriving. [00:41:00]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Amazing. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: So then what happened next in your in your Dental career, then [00:41:05] you became a dentist.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I qualified, um, 97, and [00:41:10] there was no work for me in Sweden.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, there were too many dentists.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Too [00:41:15] many dentists. So that’s why so many? Yeah. In UK. Yeah. And at that time, [00:41:20] UK had a shortage of dentists. So, um, I came to [00:41:25] UK and I started working in Norwich as [00:41:30] an associate. Um, how did you end.

Payman Langroudi: Up in Norwich? Because that’s where you got [00:41:35] the job? Yes.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And I came first for an interview in, [00:41:40] in a few cities, obviously, Beccles and Beccles and Norwich and Norwich. [00:41:45] I was accepted as an associate and I liked the [00:41:50] practice and it was a smaller city. Being a single [00:41:55] mom with two children, two daughters, I didn’t want to move to bigger cities [00:42:00] and to have a better control of bringing up my children. [00:42:05] And so I chose. I chose to be in Norwich. And yeah, [00:42:10] I started working and it was really hard for.

Payman Langroudi: Was that the [00:42:15] first time you’d worked as a dentist was in the UK? Yes. Oh, so you didn’t work at all in Sweden? [00:42:20] No. Did you have. You didn’t have to vote though.

Fariba Zolfaghari: In Sweden. Yeah, you have to.

Payman Langroudi: Oh [00:42:25] you have. You didn’t have to when you came here.

Fariba Zolfaghari: In here. No, no. You just registered [00:42:30] with the NHS. That was mixed practice.

Payman Langroudi: So did you find that very [00:42:35] third world compared to what you must, must have compared to university?

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was completely different. [00:42:40] Yes. Compared to Swedish.

Payman Langroudi: System. Plus you were in the [00:42:45] university there? Yes. So then. So then how many years did you stick at that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Uh, two and a half years. [00:42:50] I was an associate. And together with [00:42:55] the ex-partner, who was my [00:43:00] business partner as well, we started this practice in [00:43:05] Norwich. Yes. Yeah. Squad.

Payman Langroudi: 2000.

Fariba Zolfaghari: In year 2000, [00:43:10] with one surgery. Started with one surgery.

Payman Langroudi: So this. This [00:43:15] partner though was who?

Fariba Zolfaghari: This partner was the [00:43:20] brother of the owner of the practice. I [00:43:25] worked as an associate. Oh. So, um, [00:43:30] we got introduced and we [00:43:35] started to date and liked each other [00:43:40] and started to planning a life together. And [00:43:45] um, yeah, we then started living together and decided, [00:43:50] um, that obviously he had a business in Sweden. He was [00:43:55] also living in Sweden and moved to UK.

Payman Langroudi: Was he a dentist?

Fariba Zolfaghari: He wasn’t.

Payman Langroudi: No. Okay. [00:44:00] So he said, let’s open a practice. The two of.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Us. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And a squat [00:44:05] practice at that? Yeah. Quite difficult idea. Very difficult. On purpose or by mistake. Did [00:44:10] you know what you were getting yourself into? No. So you just went, like, let’s open a brand new business. That optimism [00:44:15] of.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I mean.

Payman Langroudi: Entrepreneurship.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I was never in, um, [00:44:20] to opening my own practice that early of my career. [00:44:25] He was into it, but he was into it, and obviously I was with [00:44:30] him. Yeah. Um. And I said yes.

Payman Langroudi: How did you feel? Like scared or excited [00:44:35] or both.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Very Get a lot of investment. [00:44:40] Yeah. Um. Very scared.

Payman Langroudi: Whether there’s money you’d saved all the way through, like those [00:44:45] as a dentist and all that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes, absolutely. And, uh, [00:44:50] very scared to begin with. Didn’t know what’s going to happen with people in that, [00:44:55] uh, village is going to accept me as a new dentist [00:45:00] coming into their community.

Payman Langroudi: Is it kind of on the outskirts of Norwich?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. That’s right. [00:45:05]

Payman Langroudi: Okay. But, uh. Found the place.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Found the place.

Payman Langroudi: Did the planning. [00:45:10]

Fariba Zolfaghari: And all the planning.

Payman Langroudi: Brought in the.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Equipment?

Payman Langroudi: Yes, absolutely. It’s a pretty place. I’ve seen pictures. [00:45:15] It’s a pretty.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Place. It’s beautiful now. It’s beautiful.

Payman Langroudi: It wasn’t purpose built, [00:45:20] was it? Was it? It almost looks purpose built. Like. It doesn’t look like the normal thing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was a bungalow.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:45:25] it was a bungalow.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was a bungalow that we converted. And, uh.

Payman Langroudi: And so how many chairs was it [00:45:30] on? That? Was it one chair?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Just one surgery for me to start with.

Payman Langroudi: So, [00:45:35] are you still in the same building?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I am still in the same building, but.

Payman Langroudi: Had scope to turn to eight. [00:45:40] Were you thinking about growing?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. As the year went [00:45:45] and my patient base grew and my workload was [00:45:50] getting heavier, then we decided to open one surgery after one surgery [00:45:55] each year. Up to now that is eight surgeries [00:46:00] in the same building. And [00:46:05] it was really hard.

Payman Langroudi: And obviously we were sinking every penny [00:46:10] back into it in a way.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: To get it, to get it to grow like.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Where, where it is. [00:46:15] And I still do, I still do, I still.

Payman Langroudi: Do, I still do. So then at what point was there [00:46:20] an issue with this guy? How many how many chairs in. So [00:46:25] were you eight chairs in.

Fariba Zolfaghari: We are eight chairs in. Um, [00:46:30] year 2013. December. [00:46:35]

Payman Langroudi: 13 years into the practice.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. [00:46:40] I had an awakening because [00:46:45] I was living with a narcissistic person, [00:46:50] controlling, abusing mentally and emotionally. And [00:46:55] to begin with, physically. Yeah. Um, [00:47:00] for over that period of time between 99 [00:47:05] to the end of 2013. [00:47:10] And it was nothing left of me. Um, [00:47:15] emotionally, I was like, so depressed. [00:47:20]

Payman Langroudi: And these days we call it narcissism and all that. But back then, [00:47:25] what were you thinking? What was you weren’t thinking? He’s a narcissistic personality. No. You kind of blaming yourself [00:47:30] or these sort of Of things.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Very controlling, very controlling, [00:47:35] and to the point that I wasn’t even allowed to go [00:47:40] and visit my sisters. Oh, this is.

Payman Langroudi: Going to sound like a really [00:47:45] stupid question. Yeah, but do you think there’s something about you that attracts controlling?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [00:47:50] think so. Go on. My childhood. Really? [00:47:55] My childhood. My father was very [00:48:00] old fashioned man, and [00:48:05] he was abusive towards my mum and my brother. And [00:48:10] I think something must have. I have blocked out quite a lot from my [00:48:15] childhood at that time, living with my own parents. And [00:48:20] I think something from that time that is in here [00:48:25] that has caused that I attract in these people. [00:48:30] Paper.

[TRANSITION]: Wow.

Payman Langroudi: So what [00:48:35] gave you the sort of. Not the strength, but, like, what was the the stimulus [00:48:40] for you thinking? You said awakening. What was it? What was that moment? What was.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It? That [00:48:45] moment? The veil was going to be taken [00:48:50] away from, lifted, lifted from me, and everything [00:48:55] was going to be revealed. And I knew that my [00:49:00] soul was suffering. I was crying within. [00:49:05] But no one knew what was happening with me. [00:49:10] But I was not happy inside because I [00:49:15] sacrificed everything in life for somebody who repeatedly [00:49:20] cheated on me, repeatedly stole from me, repeatedly [00:49:25] controlling in me. Name calling. And [00:49:30] not even letting my own [00:49:35] family. Being welcomed to my house, you know. So [00:49:40] at the end, there was just a wall. And I started to [00:49:45] study about this kind of personality. And [00:49:50] the name of narcissistic personality came up. And and [00:49:55] I then searched to see how to deal with this. One [00:50:00] day I had to do it. I [00:50:05] just took my suitcase. You had enough, I had enough. There was nothing left. [00:50:10] Nothing left because he was cheating at the same time, [00:50:15] right before I left. Um. And I [00:50:20] had found out. But he denied it, and that [00:50:25] was it. I had enough, and I took my [00:50:30] suitcase, my dogs and I went. And [00:50:35] I said to my family, even if [00:50:40] I have to lose everything, I will start again. I [00:50:45] do not want this life with.

Payman Langroudi: Him, with the kids grown up by this.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Time. [00:50:50] Yes. So my youngest one at that time lived [00:50:55] in London, going to college, university and my oldest one [00:51:00] of obesity. She was married in America. So they were in safe places.

Payman Langroudi: So. [00:51:05] I [00:51:10] mean, it’s a scary moment, right, to to make a change [00:51:15] like that. But but also like a moment that sort of gives you energy to [00:51:20] be become yourself, right?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Become you to find yourself.

Payman Langroudi: Find yourself. Here. Um, [00:51:25] how did it go? What happened next?

Fariba Zolfaghari: So [00:51:30] then I was homeless, and I had to [00:51:35] commute in between, um, holiday cottages until [00:51:40] I found a house where I could have my dogs [00:51:45] with me. I had three dogs at that time, and it was [00:51:50] a countryside about 4 to 5 minutes away from [00:51:55] the practice. And I lived there for about a year. [00:52:00] And then they wanted their house back, um, [00:52:05] for certain reasons. Grandma. Their their mother. [00:52:10] So then I decided, okay, I need to also live [00:52:15] closer to the, um, practice then, uh, [00:52:20] I looked for a room share. But [00:52:25] I couldn’t have my dogs, so I had to get my [00:52:30] two Lhasa apsos that I had for 13 [00:52:35] years to give them up. And that day, [00:52:40] me and my daughter. It [00:52:45] was like somebody dead. Somebody died. [00:52:50] It was. It was like we lost. One [00:52:55] of our family. Mom or dad? And we were both [00:53:00] devastated that I had to do this to survive. You know, I [00:53:05] had to still be living somewhere. And. And one of my dogs, [00:53:10] um, was living with one of my friend [00:53:15] who kindly took care of him. And, Yes. [00:53:20] So I lived in that house for another shared [00:53:25] house for another year. And then that lady wanted [00:53:30] the room back after a year. And how [00:53:35] did you feel?

Payman Langroudi: Did you feel like a failure or something? How did you feel at [00:53:40] that point? You know, it’s a strange.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was really lonely. [00:53:45] Yeah. Even though if I had, um, my family, [00:53:50] sisters and good supportive system, I [00:53:55] really felt lonely. And I felt from having everything. [00:54:00] Yeah. Doing, um, everything that I wanted. [00:54:05] I had a beautiful car, beautiful house, um, many properties. [00:54:10] And my practice obviously growing nicely, [00:54:15] I felt homeless, I felt lonely. [00:54:20] I felt that there is no [00:54:25] end to this. And. But I still didn’t want to go back to [00:54:30] how I lived before. In a way, [00:54:35] I was finding myself back to myself. And [00:54:40] that time was good because it gave me a lot of lonely [00:54:45] time. Alone time to find myself.

Payman Langroudi: Process everything.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Process [00:54:50] everything. Why I did accept. I did put up with [00:54:55] this and trying to find myself questioning myself. And [00:55:00] um, yeah, it was really, really hard. Really hard. [00:55:05]

Payman Langroudi: So what happened to the arrangements regarding the practice or the [00:55:10] properties? And were you continuing to work as in the practice during this period [00:55:15] as well?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I did, Um, continue working [00:55:20] as I did usual. But unfortunately, because, um, [00:55:25] when you’re dealing with the lawyers, you have to pay in advance. [00:55:30] And I wasn’t allowed to withdraw from the practice because [00:55:35] of what happened. And I had to work in other practices [00:55:40] as an associate. And they all said, why? Why do [00:55:45] you do that? And I had to say, what’s going on in my life? And I needed money. I needed [00:55:50] to work to provide for the law.

Payman Langroudi: Lawyers are [00:55:55] expensive.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Expenses. And, uh, [00:56:00] to a point that, um, he I thought that [00:56:05] is it. We’re going to go through the legal. Process [00:56:10] and we separate, um, in calm and peace. [00:56:15] But no, he wouldn’t stop.

Payman Langroudi: Well, narcissist [00:56:20] doesn’t like being shown up, right? It’s one of the one of the features of being [00:56:25] a narcissist that you explode if they’re sort of showing up. Um, [00:56:30] but it’s a difficult thing. The law is a ridiculous thing, really, because [00:56:35] at the time, where you need it most, right? Is where [00:56:40] you can’t afford to hire the best lawyer.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Like, it’s when you’re [00:56:45] financially in trouble that you need the best lawyer, but the best lawyer is so expensive that. [00:56:50] And if anyone hasn’t been in a legal situation, if you ever get [00:56:55] into a legal situation, the truth will not come out because it’s a legal situation that that’s [00:57:00] not the case at all. No more, I’d say. I mean, just on a [00:57:05] stupid level. I would say the person with the better lawyer will win. As simple as that, you [00:57:10] know? Yes. Uh, some people say. Yeah, always make sure your lawyer comes from a bigger firm [00:57:15] than the the the opposition’s. Yeah. Absolutely true.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely true. [00:57:20] Yes, I agree with that 100%.

Payman Langroudi: So a nightmare situation. And so what happened financially?

Fariba Zolfaghari: What happened [00:57:25] financially? Um, it was really I was in [00:57:30] debt to my lawyers. Um, I still carried on working [00:57:35] as hard as I could. Um. And pay.

Payman Langroudi: Did you end up with half of [00:57:40] the practice?

Fariba Zolfaghari: What happened? So that’s, um, [00:57:45] when this legal process were going on. Um, [00:57:50] as I said, it was on the rock bottom. The rock bottom [00:57:55] came back again with him [00:58:00] wanting to take me to the GDC. Oh, man. [00:58:05] So he and [00:58:10] his sister Falsified records. Wow. [00:58:15] Presented it to the GDC. Wow.

Payman Langroudi: Like what? What did they [00:58:20] say?

Fariba Zolfaghari: So one of them is a lot of accusations. [00:58:25] It was a big accusation. Obviously, they [00:58:30] were starting from when I started as an associate in that [00:58:35] other practice where his sister was the owner. And [00:58:40] then it carried on from when we opened my own practice. It [00:58:45] was a book of accusations, [00:58:50] um, the falsification of the records where they [00:58:55] had a, you know, one of those Brown record. Yeah. [00:59:00] Pre-computer. Yes. Nhs card. Nhs cards? Yeah. [00:59:05] They presented it full page. H. And [00:59:10] then I had to prove that this is not [00:59:15] my handwriting, because I didn’t treat him in that practice. I treated him [00:59:20] in my own practice. I had to go back to the nurse [00:59:25] that I had at that time, who is actually [00:59:30] a good friend of mine, and show [00:59:35] her the record. And she said, this is [00:59:40] written with one pen. And [00:59:45] one handwriting. Firstly, this [00:59:50] is not my handwriting. Secondly, how on earth [00:59:55] can one practice have all of this record [01:00:00] written during a couple of years with one pen? Yeah. [01:00:05] So David wrote that Without evidence. But [01:00:10] she got away with that. She was never [01:00:15] questioned by the GDC.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a funny situation, isn’t it? It’s a funny [01:00:20] situation. This is the sister of your ex?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And so [01:00:25] overall, the GDC nightmare lasted. How long?

Fariba Zolfaghari: 18 months.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:00:30] did you manage to prove everything?

Fariba Zolfaghari: 18 months. On the court hearing after [01:00:35] I brought many, many evidence, um, to [01:00:40] be witnessed on like zoom and the GDC [01:00:45] said to him that you are after discrediting this [01:00:50] lady. So you declared me innocent. [01:00:55] Wow. And he didn’t get anything?

Payman Langroudi: Nothing came of [01:01:00] nothing for him.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Nothing? Nothing.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a silly system, really.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Nothing. 18 [01:01:05] Months and you can worry. You can imagine a [01:01:10] booklet that you have of accusations. So you must.

Payman Langroudi: Have like a whole mass [01:01:15] of papers on this.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I did, and I had a very good [01:01:20] barrister, a very good barrister, and took all [01:01:25] the words out and proved the innocence.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:01:30] the GDC thing got out of the way. You must have felt so much lighter.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I did, [01:01:35] and I did.

Payman Langroudi: Found yourself for a short time I thought it was all going to get great. [01:01:40] Now go on.

Fariba Zolfaghari: For a short time. I was relieved and I [01:01:45] thought, okay, we need to get rid of all of this legal [01:01:50] process going on with the properties, the business shareholders [01:01:55] and everything that was going with [01:02:00] it. Um, there was a demand for a [01:02:05] partial payment for his share of the business because he [01:02:10] was a shareholder and which my lawyer [01:02:15] unfortunately ignored. And therefore it [01:02:20] was a court hearing about that [01:02:25] payment. And my lawyer said to me, it [01:02:30] won’t go anywhere because you are asset rich and you are waiting [01:02:35] for everything to be sold to pay him for his share. And [01:02:40] so it won’t go anywhere, so do not worry. It [01:02:45] was 1:00 the court hearing and he said, you don’t [01:02:50] need to come. I’ll go and represent you. 1:00 120 [01:02:55] he called me. I was at work lunchtime [01:03:00] and he said, I’m sorry, Fariba, I [01:03:05] couldn’t do anything. You were declared bankrupt.

Payman Langroudi: Well. [01:03:10] What did it practically mean? [01:03:15] What did that mean?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I didn’t know what it meant at that [01:03:20] time, but it means that you [01:03:25] no longer are allowed to be in that premises and work [01:03:30] as a director, as a dentist in that practice. And you’re losing [01:03:35] everything that you have. You have to give up every everything you [01:03:40] have assets wise.

Payman Langroudi: Wow.

Fariba Zolfaghari: So [01:03:45] that was. The [01:03:50] moment that within just 20 minutes, [01:03:55] your life. Upside [01:04:00] Sundown completely. You lose everything. I lost everything just [01:04:05] 20 minutes after the show.

Payman Langroudi: Because every [01:04:10] contract says on it. If in the event of bankruptcy, everything’s all the bets are off. So [01:04:15] go on. What happened then? What happened?

Fariba Zolfaghari: So the whole process, [01:04:20] um, I had to go to have a official receiver. Um, [01:04:25] and I had to go and interview with her and explain what [01:04:30] has happened, and, and that I, um, unfortunately, if my [01:04:35] lawyer before the judge make the declaration [01:04:40] called me and said, can you afford to pay this amount of money [01:04:45] because otherwise they’re going to declare you bankrupt? I would have [01:04:50] I had the money, I could have paid it. And I think the [01:04:55] official receivers, they she was on the pressure [01:05:00] on the other side. They wanted to put everything onto a trust, and [01:05:05] that would have been the end of everything. She refused. [01:05:10] Wow. Because I said to her that I’m going to find [01:05:15] this money because I was not allowed to access my account [01:05:20] anymore any longer. And I begged [01:05:25] her and asked her to give me a little bit of time to find this money. Finally, [01:05:30] after [01:05:35] trying me and my partner trying different [01:05:40] people, they come to my mind that [01:05:45] I need to reach to one of my patients who I [01:05:50] knew for a long, long time and explain [01:05:55] what has happened to me and I needed £200,000. [01:06:00]

Payman Langroudi: Who was he? A rich guy?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. [01:06:05]

Payman Langroudi: What did you say? Did you?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I explained. Explain what?

Payman Langroudi: You went for [01:06:10] a coffee? No. During the examination.

Fariba Zolfaghari: On [01:06:15] the phone first. Well. And then we met [01:06:20] him with my partner face to face, obviously. And the [01:06:25] lawyer? Because he accepted on the phone. And then we arranged with the [01:06:30] lawyer to have a written contract, obviously, that he is lending me the money [01:06:35] that I had to return when within a certain date, which [01:06:40] we signed. And after three months, [01:06:45] I managed to get the money and rescind [01:06:50] the bankruptcy. Wow. And the [01:06:55] judge who dealt with the bankruptcy, [01:07:00] rescinding the bankruptcy, said to me, [01:07:05] this should have never happened.

Payman Langroudi: Your lawyer was rubbish.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. [01:07:10]

Payman Langroudi: Like I just said, yes, I’ve been in that situation too.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Not [01:07:15] one of the cheapest.

Payman Langroudi: No no, no. Just not the one. The best.

Fariba Zolfaghari: One of the. Not one of the best.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:07:20] It’s funny, man. It’s a it’s a it’s a terrible, terrible, [01:07:25] terrible story. Up to that point. It’s a terrible story up to that point. [01:07:30] But so now that answers the the initial question I asked about why [01:07:35] you’re so busy getting good because you’ve been through these stresses to [01:07:40] get to the point. So then okay, so now you had your assets [01:07:45] again or half of your assets again.

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. Um, so everything [01:07:50] went back to the usual thing. The obviously 5,050% [01:07:55] of everything had to go to him or I had to [01:08:00] buy him out.

Payman Langroudi: So you did you let him have the houses or whatever, and you kept [01:08:05] the practice, whatever it was? Yes. Then you must have felt amazing right at this point.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It [01:08:10] was amazing. It was amazing.

Payman Langroudi: Fantastic.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Finally, [01:08:15] after seven years. What’s that?

Payman Langroudi: 2014?

Fariba Zolfaghari: That was, [01:08:20] um, from it took 20. From 2014 to [01:08:25] 2019.

Payman Langroudi: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. [01:08:30] So then 2019 Covid 19 Covid happened. [01:08:35]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Covid happened.

Payman Langroudi: Yes. Yes.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And I had to deal with that as well.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:08:40] then there was the growth after Covid. Exactly. Which was amazing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was amazing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:08:45] For all of us. What a story. What a story. A beautiful story [01:08:50] in a way. Um, but the resilience. Really, really, really look up [01:08:55] to you. Now let’s talk about your current practice. What is it? What’s the setup?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Is [01:09:00] a private practice. We converted to private from [01:09:05] being a mixed dental practice. Um, this year.

Payman Langroudi: Or this year? [01:09:10] This year? Really? Congratulations.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Thank you. And everyone [01:09:15] is thriving and practices.

Payman Langroudi: Did you have someone hold your hand? Yes. [01:09:20] What? Practice. Practice plan.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Practice plan.

Payman Langroudi: And so they sort of put letters. [01:09:25]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. They do.

Payman Langroudi: How to talk to patients? Yes. And then did you have a number [01:09:30] of patients that you had to keep and the number that if they left you’d be okay. And that. [01:09:35]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Sort of. That’s right. There were all these calculations going on.

Payman Langroudi: So what happened was the actual situation [01:09:40] better than.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Much better than I.

Payman Langroudi: Thought. So your patients were understanding [01:09:45] of it. And so what would be your tips? What would be your top tip regarding this [01:09:50] the subject, there must have been an element of nervousness, right? Of going fully private. What [01:09:55] will people say? What will the staff say? Tell me. Give me tips.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was really hard [01:10:00] for me, obviously, to take that decision and take the leap [01:10:05] of faith and believe and trust that [01:10:10] practice over 24 years had [01:10:15] been established and people knew about our ethos of [01:10:20] the practice, how it’s run, it’s a family practice. Yeah. And [01:10:25] that they would want to stay [01:10:30] with the practice that they have been. The children have been with us for many, [01:10:35] many years, but it was a scary and practice [01:10:40] plan helped us to convert. And, um, [01:10:45] every day, every moment I looked at the amount of people who [01:10:50] signed up, and it grew and grew. And to the [01:10:55] final point that we started January all being private. [01:11:00] It was a scary. Some people obviously didn’t like it because as [01:11:05] I said this, 20 fours of being NHS mixed practice. [01:11:10] You can imagine the amount of patients we had. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Did you convince the [01:11:15] staff.

Fariba Zolfaghari: They were happy?

Payman Langroudi: Every part of the staff bought in before [01:11:20] you made the announcement?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes, they were all on board.

Payman Langroudi: The [01:11:25] practice plan tell you to do that? Or was that instinctively you knew that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, no, I knew that they [01:11:30] would, because there would.

Payman Langroudi: Be they could see what it was like in the mixed system. [01:11:35] Right? Yeah.

Fariba Zolfaghari: They would benefit with that. Obviously they knew that it would be [01:11:40] a better working environment, working environment, wages, [01:11:45] Benefits and calm environment. You know, NHS [01:11:50] practices can be really stressful and chaotic, especially [01:11:55] a large practice with a large contract that we had.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:12:00] and so you the giving up of that contract, like what amount of money was that contract [01:12:05] per year?

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was, uh, almost over £1 million. [01:12:10]

Payman Langroudi: That must have been the scary bit, right? It was the where’s this million pounds going to come from [01:12:15] to pay everyone and.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: So, uh, we [01:12:20] already had a lot of private, I guess.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. Not a lot. [01:12:25]

Payman Langroudi: Not a lot. So were you planning, knowing that you were [01:12:30] going to lose the million? Were you planning that you were going to expand private? Do [01:12:35] marketing? What were you planning?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Marketing obviously helped [01:12:40] a lot. And just Explaining [01:12:45] for the patients what it entails. If they signed up for [01:12:50] practice plan because they came and sat in the practice. People [01:12:55] were queuing to sign up, you know, and.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:13:00] and I mean, I haven’t been part of it for a long time, but practice plan is that just [01:13:05] they pay monthly and they get exams and scale.

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And then everything else, they pay, [01:13:10] but they get a discount.

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right. They they get two check-ups and they get the [01:13:15] it’s different plans and one to, uh, you can choose to [01:13:20] have four times a year hygienist.

Payman Langroudi: And did you give option [01:13:25] that option and the pay as you go option as well. Well or did you just push everyone [01:13:30] into insurance?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Exactly. We wanted everyone to sign [01:13:35] for the practice plan for a membership because.

Payman Langroudi: That keeps them stuck to [01:13:40] you.

Fariba Zolfaghari: That’s right. And that is a monthly regular income that you could. [01:13:45]

Payman Langroudi: Relax.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Pandemic. You could rely on [01:13:50] every month, you know. Oh, by the way.

Payman Langroudi: I bet you had a great NHS time during the pandemic. That must have been [01:13:55] fun. Um, funny. Funny. I’m talking about financially.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It [01:14:00] was. It was.

Payman Langroudi: That’s when the private practice really suffered, right?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I know it was okay [01:14:05] for us. Luckily, um, because we were able to pay our dentists [01:14:10] and pay wages for the employees and get [01:14:15] the practice pay for all the commitments that we had, [01:14:20] um, and keep, keep us going.

Payman Langroudi: So now, in [01:14:25] the, in this private environment, what are you offering? What are the services are [01:14:30] you doing?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Implants are you doing are offering implants? Um. [01:14:35]

Payman Langroudi: Is that is that, you know?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, no, I have got an implant ologist. Who [01:14:40] is very good and she provides implant [01:14:45] and author. Author is myself, Invisalign, Invisalign [01:14:50] in myself and cosmetic dentistry and a full [01:14:55] mouth rehabilitation. Is that you? Yeah. That’s me.

Payman Langroudi: So have you trained? You’ve. Obviously. [01:15:00] You’ve been going to courses. Yeah.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, for many, many years. Yeah, yeah. And, [01:15:05] uh, obviously we still have got good general dentists [01:15:10] at the practice, and I now just take [01:15:15] internal referrals only. So I don’t do any [01:15:20] of general dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: Are you doing Invisalign the whole time?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Invisalign and [01:15:25] cosmetic dentistry. I do also indoor.

Payman Langroudi: You do your own [01:15:30] indoor?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. God.

Payman Langroudi: Well done. Well done.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I love it.

Payman Langroudi: Which [01:15:35] bit do you hate? Which treatment do you hate? What do you do you hate?

Fariba Zolfaghari: And what [01:15:40] do. What do I hate? Yeah. I don’t hate any of blood. I [01:15:45] don’t mind the blood, but I wouldn’t like to [01:15:50] do implant.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But blood. I mean, I don’t mind wisdom teeth and stuff like that, so.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [01:15:55] don’t do that.

Payman Langroudi: No flaps. Do you ever make a flap?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. I have got [01:16:00] a water laser. Oh.

Payman Langroudi: Have you? Yes. Oh. Have you?

Fariba Zolfaghari: So, um, anything [01:16:05] that needs.

Payman Langroudi: And from the ortho perspective, my [01:16:10] wife does a lot of Invisalign as well. And, you know, everyone’s trying to do [01:16:15] a lot of aligners, right? It’s a funny situation insomuch as now we’re [01:16:20] doing it ourselves with generalists are doing doing it ourselves. But if you’re [01:16:25] so specialised in on it that you’re getting internal referrals. What was your ortho education? [01:16:30] I mean, did you have a strong base to start with in Sweden compared to here? And then [01:16:35] you kept going somehow or. No.

Fariba Zolfaghari: No, I, I am, um, [01:16:40] qualified master’s degree in orthodontics from Warwick University. [01:16:45] Oh, you did that in UK? Yeah. And currently I’m doing a diploma in [01:16:50] aligner in Aligner Dental Academy. [01:16:55] A diploma in that. So I have been using [01:17:00] fixed orthodontics since 2010. Since then. [01:17:05] Since then. But since.

Payman Langroudi: 2026 months. Smiles. Type or [01:17:10] actual? Real fix. Actual. So where did you learn how to do that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Warwick Warwick.

Payman Langroudi: University. [01:17:15] Oh, is your Warwick thing was before that? Yes. Oh I see, I see. I did that too. [01:17:20] But the guy who does our, um, composite lecturing. He did.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, I know he’s he’s amazing. [01:17:25] And, um, so I used to do the fixed [01:17:30] with, um, a system American system. Damon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damon. [01:17:35] Cue system. And since 2020, I started with Invisalign.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:17:40] really? So quite late compared to.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, but I used to do clear step, if you remember.

Payman Langroudi: I remember [01:17:45] clear step.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. It didn’t last very long. Um, [01:17:50] and once they stopped, obviously I stopped and I [01:17:55] carried on with the fix still. And, uh, since 2020, um, [01:18:00] obviously, I bought Itero. And then since then, um, [01:18:05] Invisalign. Invisalign started since then.

Payman Langroudi: And so [01:18:10] the clinicians is it’s you. And you said the general [01:18:15] associates.

Fariba Zolfaghari: They are. How many.

Payman Langroudi: Humans? How many humans? [01:18:20]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Uh, we are eight of us. So it’s. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: How many humans? How many. [01:18:25]

Fariba Zolfaghari: People? How many people of dentists, you mean? No, people. People. I would say [01:18:30] I have got around about That 1516 employee [01:18:35] and dentist run about seven.

Payman Langroudi: Big [01:18:40] practice.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Is a big.

Payman Langroudi: Practice. A lot going on.

Fariba Zolfaghari: A lot going.

Payman Langroudi: Manager.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I’ve [01:18:45] got two.

Payman Langroudi: Two and opening hours.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Monday to Friday, 830 [01:18:50] to 530.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, you haven’t done the 8 to 2. 2 to 8.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Exactly. [01:18:55] We are going to start with that next. Next year. Yeah. Because [01:19:00] I think it will benefit the practice because some of the [01:19:05] patients are working and dealing with the school run and children. So [01:19:10] it’s more convenient to come in the evening rather than taking [01:19:15] a day off or a morning off.

Payman Langroudi: And do you do things like facial aesthetics?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [01:19:20] used to.

Payman Langroudi: Didn’t like it?

Fariba Zolfaghari: No.

Payman Langroudi: Someone else doesn’t do it.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes, [01:19:25] I have got.

Payman Langroudi: Someone doing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It. Two associates of mine who do [01:19:30] that.

Payman Langroudi: So from a growth perspective, like as far as like what other services [01:19:35] you might start, what’s on your list? Because on my list, if I was in [01:19:40] your situation, my next thing that I would try and open up is kids [01:19:45] Private Ortho.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Well, it’s open at the moment.

Payman Langroudi: You do a lot. [01:19:50]

Fariba Zolfaghari: No.

Payman Langroudi: So I think kids private ortho is a big growth area. [01:19:55] Big growth area.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It is. But I think people are [01:20:00] still adamant to be referred as an NHS to get it [01:20:05] free of charge.

Payman Langroudi: So many, many don’t qualify number one. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s the first thing. The [01:20:10] ones who do qualify, it takes time. Yeah. Yeah. And you’ve had kids. You’ve [01:20:15] had kids. You just. You had a kid even though you didn’t want to have a kid. Because for the other kid. Yeah. [01:20:20] Yeah. So like, what I was saying is like, it’s just [01:20:25] it’s just such an easy win. It’s such an easy win. And one thing you’ve got to Remember, [01:20:30] one thing I’ve got to keep remembering as well is it doesn’t take that many kids [01:20:35] to private Ortho’s here to get one orthodontist very [01:20:40] busy. It’s a very interesting idea that, you know. How many do you need? Yeah. [01:20:45] 100. 100 people?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, probably. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: If 100 [01:20:50] children came to your clinic at £4,000 each. Yeah. That’s [01:20:55] £400,000 of ortho. Yeah. And convincing 100 people to [01:21:00] have have it done right. Yeah. Not hard. Not hard. It really is. I [01:21:05] just really think that’s a massive growth area.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Something to think about.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And then with adds [01:21:10] my, my partner Prav my partner on the podcast Prav, he does those targets [01:21:15] ads around the private schools within five mile radius of people [01:21:20] who earn over £250,000 or whatever as a, as a couple. Yeah. And only [01:21:25] those people see the ads. You know, it’s. Oh, wow. But you know what I mean. In [01:21:30] Norwich, there is a guy who owns the shopping centre, [01:21:35] and there’s a guy who owns the Mercedes showroom, and there’s the guy who owns a chain of [01:21:40] Greek restaurants, and there’s the guy who you only need 100 of those [01:21:45] to send you their kids and grandkids.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: For for [01:21:50] a brilliant business. You know, a brilliant business. What’s on your radar as far as you know, the next [01:21:55] thing you want to do. I guess there’s no more space to add any more chairs.

Fariba Zolfaghari: There isn’t, I’m afraid. [01:22:00]

Payman Langroudi: No. Are you thinking of a second one?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Um, no.

Payman Langroudi: No [01:22:05] one perfect place. You’re trying to make it perfect.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think. Exactly. [01:22:10] I tried to get that practice to be. Obviously it is [01:22:15] at the moment. It’s one of the best practices in the whole Norfolk. Um, we [01:22:20] actually one of the few practices that are fully digital. [01:22:25] Are you? And that’s one of my passions, digital dentistry [01:22:30] and the whole.

Payman Langroudi: Are you good with computers?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes. That’s different. Yes, I do [01:22:35] exocad design. I mean.

Payman Langroudi: Computers in general dentistry. [01:22:40]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Are very good.

Payman Langroudi: Yes, that’s different, isn’t it? You don’t see many, many ladies from from our generation? [01:22:45] No I know. Good at computers.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I know, I know that that’s one thing that I [01:22:50] would like to teach a lot of younger women, especially [01:22:55] dentists.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it’s a good point.

Fariba Zolfaghari: To get in to digital dentistry, because [01:23:00] a lot of, uh, women nervousness around nervous about digital, [01:23:05] digital and technology. And it’s very easy, [01:23:10] very easy.

Payman Langroudi: So have you thought about teaching?

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes I have.

Payman Langroudi: Have you done [01:23:15] teaching? No I.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Haven’t. No, I would love to at one point.

Payman Langroudi: Definitely. [01:23:20] I think I think you’d be good at it. I think you’d be good at it. Um, because [01:23:25] I don’t know, sometimes with teaching or with mentoring in general. Yeah, there’s there’s [01:23:30] that. I wish there was someone like me in my life back [01:23:35] then. Back then to teach, you know, the big element of that. It’s a big, big element of that. [01:23:40] And, you know, you can think of the types of people you wanted around to to help you out [01:23:45] back then, rather than working it all out yourself. Yes. There must have been. I mean, tell me about this. I’m quite interested [01:23:50] in this here. Your partner that you divorced with with [01:23:55] in the business. There must have been bits that he was doing that you had no idea about. [01:24:00] I don’t mean bad bits, just bits of running, bits of raising money, bits of decorating. [01:24:05] What was he doing? That knowledge that he. Maintenance.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Maintenance. That’s [01:24:10] it.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really? He wasn’t doing finance or I don’t know. [01:24:15]

Fariba Zolfaghari: We had that content and everything was given [01:24:20] handed over. Handed over to accountant. Content. He was just doing maintenance.

Payman Langroudi: That’s [01:24:25] all. Because, you know, I thought, oh, maybe he was had a big part in the business. And then you [01:24:30] lost that knowledge. No, no. Good. [01:24:35]

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me. Tell me about inspiring [01:24:40] staff. I mean, I’ve talked to you a few times and just. You’re good with people. You’re [01:24:45] good. You’re a good conversationalist. But it’s different talking to a friend or talking [01:24:50] to a colleague or a staff. What’s your what’s your learnings on that? Because, [01:24:55] you know, 24 years, 25 years of stuff.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Is [01:25:00] a difficult conversation dealing with [01:25:05] the staff. Um, I think the [01:25:10] quality to dealing with this stuff is, first [01:25:15] of all, to listen to this stuff. Yeah, listen to [01:25:20] their problems and then try to help them [01:25:25] about their where they’re lacking. Of their knowledge and [01:25:30] where they could support. Um, we could support [01:25:35] them in their learning. Um, in their working. Sometimes [01:25:40] it’s just the environment. Sometimes it’s just, um, bitterness about [01:25:45] each other. You know, it’s really hard. And, um, I think [01:25:50] from my point of view, I always try to listen to [01:25:55] my staff. And if I can do anything for them, [01:26:00] I will do it. But with regards to the [01:26:05] working environment, if there is anything that we can support [01:26:10] them with, we will do it as a team.

Payman Langroudi: I think you hit the nail [01:26:15] on the head when you when you said help them, support them. Absolutely. Because there’s [01:26:20] two different types of bosses. There’s the servant boss, which is [01:26:25] that one? Yeah. Or there’s the, you know, boss boss, where the staff are the servants and [01:26:30] and and I really I think it’s the biggest, the biggest point in leadership is [01:26:35] to be the servant of your people. It’s like you work for them, not [01:26:40] they work for you is the key point. The key point. And it’s difficult [01:26:45] sometimes. By the way, if you talk to my team, I’m sure they’ll say this saying that, but he’s in a bad [01:26:50] mood or whatever. Yeah. Um, but I think it’s a key point, man. I think it’s a key point in success as [01:26:55] a leader.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think you as a leader, you [01:27:00] have to train leaders.

Payman Langroudi: True.

Fariba Zolfaghari: And in [01:27:05] my practice, it’s not. This is [01:27:10] what I’m saying. You have to do it. We sit on [01:27:15] a round table and we brainstorm, and [01:27:20] then we make a decision as a team, and then we have a big [01:27:25] meeting if there is any changes. And we introduce that change and [01:27:30] then we ask for feedback.

Payman Langroudi: That seems like a feminine [01:27:35] way of doing it. It’s quite nice. It’s quite a nice thing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. It’s uh would you. [01:27:40]

Payman Langroudi: Agree with that, that it’s more a woman thing?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think it’s more democratic. [01:27:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing this, I feel like. I feel like it’s more of a, [01:27:50] you know, they say that, they say, oh, women work more with consensus, you know? [01:27:55] And at the same time, women also I come across lots who don’t want to put themselves [01:28:00] up to be a teacher. You know, there’s that whole question, why [01:28:05] aren’t there more women teachers? Yeah. And whatever else you want to say, there is this aspect of [01:28:10] women won’t ask. They’ll they’ll be happy to be asked, but [01:28:15] they won’t ask themselves.

Fariba Zolfaghari: You’re right. Absolutely. [01:28:20] You. You have to put yourself forward. Yeah. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:28:25] if it’s not, it’s not in the nature of women to do it.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It’s not, I’m afraid. No, you’re absolutely [01:28:30] right.

Payman Langroudi: In the same way as it’s not in the nature of women to ask for a pay rise. I’ve noticed some [01:28:35] women. Some some some some women love it.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I think nowadays they do. [01:28:40]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I mean, certainly in my experience with, [01:28:45] um, lady associates, dentists, [01:28:50] um, they are not shy about asking for [01:28:55] a raise. They’re not shy.

Payman Langroudi: I really worry about it, though, because we’ve got people here. [01:29:00] Yeah. And I always think about this a lot. It bothers me badly that [01:29:05] two people doing the same kind of job. You know, we’ve got six people doing sales, [01:29:10] let’s say two of them in that department. If one of them is asking and [01:29:15] one of them isn’t asking and it’s just waiting, the one who’s [01:29:20] waiting ends up losing. Yeah, and it pisses [01:29:25] me off a bit. Yeah, because it’s not in some people’s nature to ask. Number [01:29:30] one. Number two, I quite like that idea of I’m not going [01:29:35] to. I’m sure they’ll come to me. I quite like and yet that person gets penalised [01:29:40] here and doesn’t get the pay rises at enlightened. You know, I’ve seen I’ve noticed it over the years. [01:29:45] I’ve tried to try to change for that as well, but over the years people tend [01:29:50] to be the ones who get even in pay rises. It’s difficult. [01:29:55]

Fariba Zolfaghari: It is very hard.

Payman Langroudi: My team aren’t listening.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It is really hard [01:30:00] because not only that, that person will get [01:30:05] probably the raise, but also there are other [01:30:10] people with more qualification, more experience, who never [01:30:15] come forward to ask for the raise. But then again, if you [01:30:20] are a fair boss.

Payman Langroudi: You notice that.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Notice that and you bring it. [01:30:25]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah. All right. That’s what. [01:30:30] That’s what I’m struggling with, you know? Yeah. It’s been amazing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Because at the end of the [01:30:35] day, yeah they will hear it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. You know what? Another thing I struggle [01:30:40] with is experience counts sometimes more than merit.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Absolutely. [01:30:45]

Payman Langroudi: No, no, but I don’t like it.

Fariba Zolfaghari: You don’t like it?

Payman Langroudi: No. I’m in the same way. You’re talking about [01:30:50] promotions, pay rises and all that. Pay rises because of the fact that you have been [01:30:55] there longer. Yeah. There’s something nice about staying [01:31:00] somewhere. Yeah. It is. But we’ve been guilty of this in the past of giving people pay rises just [01:31:05] for being there, and then other people who join later, Not [01:31:10] giving them huge pay rises because they just got here, you know. So it’s [01:31:15] almost like an experience versus merit pay rise. And I’m trying to change that though. I’m [01:31:20] trying to change that to how are you going to change it. We’re going to make it more meritocracy. Not not immediate [01:31:25] pay rises just because of another years gone by. Yeah. You know, that sort of thing. It’s [01:31:30] been massive, the pleasurable conversation. Um, there is two [01:31:35] parts we always do in this pod. Number one, your biggest mistake. Clinical.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It’s [01:31:40] only about whitening. [01:31:45]

Payman Langroudi: No way.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Enlighten. No. Thank [01:31:50] God. No. Don’t mention, don’t mention the name.

Fariba Zolfaghari: No. [01:31:55] Many years ago.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. May I [01:32:00] say the name? The brand name? No.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Okay. Um. Many years ago, the [01:32:05] in house whitening. Um, I bought a machine which I won’t [01:32:10] mention the name. And obviously you’re buying the whiting from [01:32:15] that company. And I’m not saying that anything [01:32:20] was or is wrong with the machine or the company’s, [01:32:25] um, Whiting brand material, because I’m still working with [01:32:30] that material in for in-house Whiting. Um, and I [01:32:35] still have got the machine. I love it, and patients love it. It [01:32:40] was early stages of me [01:32:45] going into in-house whitening with [01:32:50] the machine that I had bought. Um, I had [01:32:55] done a couple and it had gone really well. Um, [01:33:00] this lady came to me and she was going to get married [01:33:05] very soon, 2 or 3 weeks from [01:33:10] the date of the treatment. So [01:33:15] we did that, and at the end of the treatment, [01:33:20] she had big lips. [01:33:25]

Payman Langroudi: Allergy.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Allergy. And big, uh. [01:33:30]

Payman Langroudi: Ulceration, blisters and.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Things like burning. [01:33:35] Ulceration on her lips. And then when I got [01:33:40] in touch with the company, um, they said that. What [01:33:45] colour she was she white? [01:33:50] Red? Black. I said she is a fair skin [01:33:55] with freckles. Yeah. Reddish hair. And [01:34:00] that is quite a common Them with [01:34:05] their fair skin that they get this. They could [01:34:10] get this kind of. Ulceration, this kind of reaction. Mm. So [01:34:15] as a result, um, obviously I was really, really upset [01:34:20] for her because she was going to get married very soon. Did it.

Payman Langroudi: Not get better before the.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Wedding? [01:34:25] It did get better. She. I gave her some antibiotic antihistamine. [01:34:30] And just before she was getting married, there were [01:34:35] the swelling was going down. The ulceration was getting [01:34:40] down. Obviously, she had some cream that she got from her doctor. [01:34:45]

Payman Langroudi: But she was upset.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Really. She was really upset.

Payman Langroudi: So what was the error? The way [01:34:50] that you handled her upset or what did.

Fariba Zolfaghari: The lesson was [01:34:55] that I should have told her that this is a risk [01:35:00] for your skin type.

Payman Langroudi: But you wouldn’t. I mean, how would you know that?

Fariba Zolfaghari: I should have no [01:35:05] skin type.

Payman Langroudi: No no no no. I disagree with that. How are you gonna. [01:35:10] It’s such a rare thing.

Fariba Zolfaghari: It was rare. And they said it as well.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You don’t. You don’t need to tell [01:35:15] her. If it’s like, you know, less than a 5% chance of it happening. You know what I mean? [01:35:20] It’s like. It’s like saying I should tell someone when I take their tooth out that they could die. Well, [01:35:25] they could die. Someone has died when the tooth has been pulled out. So let’s [01:35:30] leave that 1 to 1 side. How did you handle her? Was she cool or was she. Was she not cool? No.

Fariba Zolfaghari: She [01:35:35] was really upset. Yeah. Not in a bad way.

Payman Langroudi: Just for her own wedding. [01:35:40]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, but it wasn’t a good experience for her or myself. [01:35:45]

Payman Langroudi: Have you got a better, better one than that one? Um, well, I like [01:35:50] that one because it’s whitening, but I feel like you didn’t make any mistakes [01:35:55] there.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I feel that I did. I should have warned her. No, you shouldn’t. [01:36:00]

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, that’s incorrect. Let’s talk about different mistakes. Yes. [01:36:05]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Um, the biggest mistake that [01:36:10] is you never treat your partner or family [01:36:15] and friends.

Payman Langroudi: Go on. I have, I’ve done a lot on my friends and family. [01:36:20]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Did you. Did you know what happened with the GDC? Because I was treating [01:36:25] my partner and they didn’t approve of that. Okay, okay. [01:36:30] So that was one of the big lesson I learned.

Payman Langroudi: Really? [01:36:35]

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah, both. That was.

Payman Langroudi: It’s funny because I still would treat my family, my friends, [01:36:40] my mom, actually, my.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Mom and my sister. Are you actually.

Payman Langroudi: Saying are [01:36:45] we actually saying that one. We should not treat friends and family. It’s weird.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [01:36:50] am actually saying do not treat your [01:36:55] partner.

Payman Langroudi: In case there’s a divorce.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Do not treat your friends. [01:37:00] Really? I would still do. My sisters, my brother, my mom. [01:37:05] Um, that I would do that because they would never [01:37:10] take me to court. But I would never, [01:37:15] ever again touch either a friend [01:37:20] or a partner’s taste.

Payman Langroudi: I like that one [01:37:25] more. I like that one. I do like that one. I do like that one. Final question. [01:37:30] Fantasy dinner party. Three guests, [01:37:35] dead or alive.

Fariba Zolfaghari: My [01:37:40] uncle. Was [01:37:45] very inspiring.

Payman Langroudi: My mom’s.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Brother. My father’s brother.

Payman Langroudi: My father’s brother.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Who was [01:37:50] a surgeon. Very inspiring. Um, [01:37:55] he would teach me a lot about. He was a businessman [01:38:00] as well. But business and about.

Payman Langroudi: Did you.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Know [01:38:05] him? I knew him up to the point that I moved from [01:38:10] Iran. Then after that there was no connection, [01:38:15] I’m afraid, but very inspiring. The [01:38:20] second one would be Wayne Dyer. [01:38:25] Doctor Wayne Dyer. Who’s that? He’s an American [01:38:30] guy. He died in 2015. He’s a [01:38:35] doctor in psychology, and he is a speaker, [01:38:40] was a speaker, and he is blending the spirituality [01:38:45] and psychology together. Oh, nice. And if you listen [01:38:50] to him, you just listen to him. And it will take [01:38:55] you to a different world.

Payman Langroudi: Wayne Dwyer.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Wayne. Dyer. [01:39:00]

Payman Langroudi: Dyer.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Doctor. Wayne. Dyer.

Payman Langroudi: How do you spell. Dyer.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Dyer. [01:39:05]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, okay.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Yeah. And the third [01:39:10] one. Jamie. Oliver. I like Jamie.

Payman Langroudi: I like Jamie.

Fariba Zolfaghari: I [01:39:15] love.

Payman Langroudi: Him. I like Jamie. Jamie used to live on my street at one point. Did he? I moved when I used [01:39:20] to live around here. Um, the reason why this office is here is because I always used to live around here. And [01:39:25] then I’ve moved to West London. I like Jamie, too.

Fariba Zolfaghari: He was amazing. He is amazing [01:39:30] guy. Amazing. And he’s. I love cooking, obviously, and [01:39:35] I just love watching him cook.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:39:40] been such a massive pleasure. Thank you so much for telling your story the way [01:39:45] you did.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Thank you for having me.

Payman Langroudi: Not easy to say it all either. You know, that’s [01:39:50] that’s it’s it’s really inspirational to to hear it from you. And [01:39:55] you know really well. Done. Really well done. With with your practice. And like I [01:40:00] say, I see people coming to events and you’re still coming. I love that I really love [01:40:05] that. Thank you so much for coming.

Fariba Zolfaghari: Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This [01:40:10] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go [01:40:15] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:40:20] hosts, Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [01:40:25]

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. [01:40:30] And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what [01:40:35] we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. [01:40:40]

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would [01:40:45] share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so so much for [01:40:50] listening.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.

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