Payman Langroudi: This pod is brought to you by Mini Smile Makeover, which is a two day anterior [00:00:05] composite hands on course led by Depeche Palmer. Loads of people [00:00:10] do A-line, bleach, bond, and there’s plenty of people who find the aligning bit [00:00:15] and the bleaching bit more comfortable, but the bonding bit a lot less comfortable. [00:00:20] And the bonding bit is the bit. Is the sugar on top of the case? My advice is practice, [00:00:25] but if you want to go on a course, the best course I know is called Mini Smile Maker all the way from [00:00:30] class three, four, five to diastema closure, composite veneers, the Basics [00:00:35] and the advanced Monochromatic Polychromatic Restorations mini Smile makeover. If [00:00:40] you’re interested, let’s get to the pod.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:45] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:50] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [00:00:55] Your hosts Payman [00:01:00] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome [00:01:05] Sharon Walsh onto the podcast. Sharon is a dentist who had a pretty conventional [00:01:10] first half of her career, and then a pretty unconventional second [00:01:15] half, where she has had several issues around associates, [00:01:20] um, alcohol misuse, GDC [00:01:25] complaints and has now come out the other side of it all and, [00:01:30] um, wants to talk about it, wants to talk about her journey. Massive pleasure to have you, Sharon. [00:01:35] Thank you. Thanks for coming all the way. Um, also a contemporary [00:01:40] of our friend who’s episode three on this podcast, one [00:01:45] of my best friends who went to university with him, I think, and put us in touch. He did? [00:01:50] Yeah. Sharon, we’ll get to the the whole enchilada, [00:01:55] you know, as the as the conversation goes, goes forward. [00:02:00] Well, sometimes I’ve got like a burning question that I just want to ask. And if I don’t ask it and I’m thinking [00:02:05] about it the whole time, but when in a moment of adversity, you [00:02:10] sort of alluded to me that you now have sort of the tools [00:02:15] to manage adversity better than before in [00:02:20] a moment of adversity. What is the way to get through the other side? What [00:02:25] are the first 2 or 3 steps? [00:02:30]

Sharon Walsh: I think you have to learn to to come into acceptance. I [00:02:35] think that you have to begin to trust [00:02:40] yourself within and be patient. And I think [00:02:45] one of the most important things, the most important thing for me, Payman, is to learn to live in the moment [00:02:50] because there is no past and there is no [00:02:55] future. There’s that’s just here and now. And if I can keep [00:03:00] practising and being here and now with with what is then [00:03:05] the mind quietens. And so everything’s [00:03:10] okay.

Payman Langroudi: The acceptance first [00:03:15] of your situation.

Sharon Walsh: You have to accept because [00:03:20] if you resist what’s going on, [00:03:25] you just create more suffering. And by not resisting it and by letting [00:03:30] a life almost flow through, then it [00:03:35] is what it is.

Payman Langroudi: So, Sharon, you had a practice of your own, a private practice? [00:03:40] Yes. Where was that lead?

Sharon Walsh: No, it was near Rochdale. Rochdale. In the Pennines. Nice. [00:03:45] Yeah. It was.

Payman Langroudi: Give me the flavour of that practice. What were things [00:03:50] like before things started going wrong for you?

Sharon Walsh: Well, I took the practice [00:03:55] on. It was a shed, and I did the whole place out from the floor upwards, [00:04:00] literally. And it was beautiful. And [00:04:05] I think I created a, I created [00:04:10] a safe space for people. Patience. I know a lot of patients said to me they didn’t think it was [00:04:15] like going into a dentist’s surgery. So like, I’d have water and coffee in the waiting [00:04:20] room. And before it was fashionable.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it was still [00:04:25] probably still not fashionable. Apologies.

Sharon Walsh: No, it’s all [00:04:30] right, but I did. I had, you know, I just tried to treat people like I would want to be treated. [00:04:35]

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Sharon Walsh: And you know I yeah [00:04:40] I loved it and I just think it was a warm welcoming space.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:04:45] what kind of size was the practice. How many dentists. How many nurses. How many.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah [00:04:50] it was just little Payman. It was um, [00:04:55] the end of a row of terrace with a chops. And, [00:05:00] uh, was it.

Payman Langroudi: Just yourself working there?

Sharon Walsh: No, there [00:05:05] was a. Yeah, an associate too. And I had two hygienists. Yeah. [00:05:10]

Payman Langroudi: And the atmosphere, how would you how would you sort of categorise the sort of the work atmosphere. Was it very [00:05:15] friendly and.

Sharon Walsh: It was it was sweet and it was very difficult. [00:05:20] It was very difficult with the associate. Um, [00:05:25] I think that he held a lot of resentment [00:05:30] against me from the minute that I came in. So. So he [00:05:35] was.

Payman Langroudi: Existed. He was there before you came in.

Sharon Walsh: He’d been there a long time.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. The incumbent? Yes. [00:05:40] So you bought it, and then it didn’t feel good from the beginning.

Sharon Walsh: It felt difficult with [00:05:45] him. From the from the word go? Yes.

Payman Langroudi: What was his bugbear like? If you had to [00:05:50] strawman man. His argument. Like what? Make it make his case for him. What [00:05:55] would he say?

Sharon Walsh: I think he’d been there a long time. I think he thought it [00:06:00] was his. He was a man’s man.

Payman Langroudi: And you came in with ideas. [00:06:05]

Sharon Walsh: And I came in with ideas. And I wanted to do great dentistry. [00:06:10] And I think that deep [00:06:15] down, he really resented that. So it was always difficult. But, you know, [00:06:20] it worked clinically. And at that time I was married with two young children, [00:06:25] and I had a mum who was on her own. My dad had passed and [00:06:30] her mother in law, who was on her own too. So it was it was hard. You know, [00:06:35] I it’s hard being a mom and a wife and then owning a business. Of course. [00:06:40] And then, you know, working in it. Clinically, it’s juggling [00:06:45] all those all those things.

Payman Langroudi: And as far as the as the dentistry itself, [00:06:50] what kind of dentist are you or were you back then? What [00:06:55] kind of work did you do or didn’t you do?

Sharon Walsh: I was a conscientious [00:07:00] dentist. I’m absolutely passionate about dentistry and I’ve never lost my passion for [00:07:05] it, like in my early days, restorative. And I learned with [00:07:10] some of the best. And then I went on to be a member of the Bso’s. [00:07:15] Oh, really? So I knew Roy Hixon really well. Oh, really? Yeah. And then [00:07:20] I kept going back and back and back every year to the, um, [00:07:25] the weekends that they did with Bill. And, you know, some of the really [00:07:30] great, um, daddies of dentistry in the modern era. And [00:07:35] so I found that, you know, when I learned about occlusion, the boring stuff that made [00:07:40] me a good dentist does.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. And then in the [00:07:45] in the latter years, well, my dad came to work with me, with me and he used to do the prosthetics.

Payman Langroudi: He’s a dentist. [00:07:50]

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. He was. Yeah. I worked with him for the first seven years of my career, and [00:07:55] he came to work, just did the prosthetics. I was never interested and didn’t really understand it.

Payman Langroudi: Dentures. [00:08:00]

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, yeah. And then he died. He died really suddenly. So [00:08:05] he left me cases to do. And I really didn’t really know what I was doing. And [00:08:10] then about 3 or 4 months after he died, I came across John Beresford. Who [00:08:15] was just one of the most wonderful human beings I’ve ever met. [00:08:20] And I went to hear him speak down at Schottlander. Yeah. [00:08:25] And I went on his course and I was mesmerised. Payman.

Payman Langroudi: For those who don’t know him, [00:08:30] very bespoke, sort of set up teeth in a natural way. Yeah. [00:08:35] The way the patient used to look when they were younger, that sort of thing. Right.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. He’s just about. [00:08:40] He’s real. He’s a he’s a true gentleman. He’s real about [00:08:45] life. And he, um, [00:08:50] what he taught me was, was to look at patients as [00:08:55] human beings. And, you know, I think it’s very difficult when you’re in practice, you know, you put. Why [00:09:00] did you have to put up so many walls and defences? And it’s hard [00:09:05] sometimes to look at another as a human being. And he made me [00:09:10] do that. And he made me realise that not having teeth is actually a physical disability [00:09:15] and creates a lot of problems [00:09:20] and a lot of people’s lives. So when you start to look at clients [00:09:25] in that way, it changes the whole way you practice. So that’s what.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:09:30] I mean, I, I stopped practising in 2012 and [00:09:35] I found you only really realise what you loved about it [00:09:40] when you stop.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What was that for you. For instance, I found I was [00:09:45] much more interested in the conversations, the people than I was in the teeth. The treatment plans, the [00:09:50] Meccano bit of it. How about you? When you stopped, did [00:09:55] you crystallise what aspects of it you really loved?

Sharon Walsh: I [00:10:00] didn’t want to stop. I was in the prime of my career, but [00:10:05] health took over, so I [00:10:10] didn’t have a choice.

Payman Langroudi: What did you miss about dentistry, though?

Sharon Walsh: What [00:10:15] do I miss now about it? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What aspect of it? See, I’m very happy not to [00:10:20] being a dentist. Very happy not practising. But I really miss the people part. I really do. [00:10:25]

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, I understand that, Payman. I miss the connection with people. And [00:10:30] I miss the challenge of it, to be honest with you.

Payman Langroudi: Problem solving? Yeah. [00:10:35] Clinically?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. I was one of those people, you know, you came in, I could sit and [00:10:40] I’d look in the mouth, and within a few moments I could see from [00:10:45] A to Z. So my biggest challenge was like stopping and saying, right, [00:10:50] stop and now go A, B, C, D and plan it properly. [00:10:55]

Payman Langroudi: Um, what were you like as a business owner, as a sort of staff motivator [00:11:00] or that kind of person? Were you good at that or not? I think I [00:11:05] found.

Sharon Walsh: It quite hard. You know, I think it’s being a boss is the most loneliest [00:11:10] thing in the world. And, you know, everybody thinks that you’re making, [00:11:15] um, so much more money than them and that you’re just, you know, when you’re not there, you’re [00:11:20] gallivanting around and and they all want a bit of you and however much you [00:11:25] do as a boss, I found people just want more and more and more. There’s never a it’s like [00:11:30] you can never do enough. So I don’t know if I really got the [00:11:35] the lesson about being a good boss. I remember the stuff you said to me, oh, you’re so lovely [00:11:40] and you’re such a good boss, but I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: There’s [00:11:45] definitely that loneliness element that you mentioned. And I think however touchy [00:11:50] feely a business is, however happy a business is, there are moments where [00:11:55] it becomes an us and them between management and team. Yeah, that certainly happens. [00:12:00] You know, over a period of time that’s going to happen sometimes. And I found in [00:12:05] those moments are the moments that I value having partners the most. [00:12:10] And you know, in those moments I didn’t have a partner. I could imagine that being very, very lonely. [00:12:15] It was.

Sharon Walsh: Very lonely. I mean, my ex husband was a lawyer, [00:12:20] so contract and employment. So, you know, he could come in on those areas that [00:12:25] I absolutely had no clue about. Um, which is what [00:12:30] I wanted to touch on, really, when you asked me about the GDC.

Payman Langroudi: Because let’s talk [00:12:35] about how this all started going wrong for you, because it sounded like you were in a private practice [00:12:40] where you liked your work, liked your patients, your patients liked you. How [00:12:45] did it go wrong?

Sharon Walsh: Um, I’ll tell you the [00:12:50] day. It was February the 4th, 2017, and the associate handed his noticing.

Payman Langroudi: Well, [00:12:55] you remember the day?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, I remember where I was. I was having my I was having my [00:13:00] nails done. Go on. He sent an email through, [00:13:05] and my first thought was, thank God. And [00:13:10] from that moment onwards, I [00:13:15] don’t know, something inside me knew that I was. Something inside me knew that my [00:13:20] life was going to change. And it did. [00:13:25] And from that moment, the practice began to get [00:13:30] quiet. My patients weren’t coming in, and [00:13:35] it began to become obvious after a very short period of period of time that there [00:13:40] was stuff going on behind the scenes, like communication to patients that [00:13:45] he was going through him and the receptionist, that everything [00:13:50] was being planned. And. So [00:13:55] it was really destabilising. [00:14:00]

Payman Langroudi: So he left and you [00:14:05] found suddenly the books were also becoming quieter at the same time.

Sharon Walsh: I [00:14:10] found that he ended his notice and he took garden leave for three months, and [00:14:15] he went four miles down the road to a supposed friend and colleague who took him in. [00:14:20]

Payman Langroudi: And a bunch of your patients ended up in the new practice?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. [00:14:25] Because he was telling everybody. So. And when you work [00:14:30] in a village and you get around really quickly.

Payman Langroudi: Good and bad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:14:35]

Sharon Walsh: So.

Payman Langroudi: Were you already like in a financial [00:14:40] crisis point? Because losing an associate itself is an expensive thing and [00:14:45] even the best of times, but losing an associate and losing a bunch of patients with [00:14:50] them, that can really hurt a practice.

Sharon Walsh: It did.

Payman Langroudi: So did you feel financially pressured [00:14:55] to?

Sharon Walsh: Uh, not at first. You [00:15:00] know, Payman, when you have a nervous breakdown and your whole nervous system blows up and [00:15:05] you feel like you’re dying, the last thing on your mind is money. I [00:15:10] couldn’t stand up. I couldn’t sit down, I couldn’t eat.

Payman Langroudi: I was what was causing that problem. [00:15:15] How did it initiate? Was it. Was it? I mean, this is an important question. [00:15:20] Were you on the edge of a breakdown anyway before [00:15:25] this happened? Or was this this event itself [00:15:30] the cause of the breakdown?

Sharon Walsh: I think this was the was the catalyst [00:15:35] for it. And nobody’s ever asked me this before, and I haven’t, you know, like I sometimes pray [00:15:40] on it and I say, why is this happened? Why? I [00:15:45] was going through.

Payman Langroudi: Your head before, you know, when, you know, rather than the crisis [00:15:50] point, what was going through your head that this I’m going to lose the business. What was the what was [00:15:55] the sort of, you know, what main problem?

Sharon Walsh: I think that I started to go into panic mode because I [00:16:00] thought, how am I going to cope with 1500 people on my own and then go home and be [00:16:05] a wife and a mum and keep everything going? Um, and I [00:16:10] just panicked. I think I just went into total and utter panic and [00:16:15] I couldn’t come out of it. Um, and I interviewed [00:16:20] people and I did take somebody else on, and he lasted about three days. It was [00:16:25] just awful. He came in and sat in my surgery and everything started like the chair [00:16:30] broke on the first day and It’s like oil started pouring out on the [00:16:35] floor from the chair and he couldn’t use the hand pieces. And I’m like, oh, God. It’s just, um. [00:16:40]

Payman Langroudi: And where were you then? When when it when it finally hit, you were [00:16:45] at home in bed. Is that how it was? Where were you? How were you feeling? [00:16:50]

Sharon Walsh: I carried on for three months, and, you know, I had. I took [00:16:55] on a new manageress, and she was doing a very best to, you know. Call [00:17:00] patients, bring them back in. Who [00:17:05] knows? I think it’s. It [00:17:10] was just meant to be underpinning [00:17:15] everything. I have a deep inner search. And I think when when you’re [00:17:20] born with that, when you’re born with the question that underpins everything of what is the meaning and [00:17:25] purpose of all of it, then you are. I think I [00:17:30] had to be totally and utterly smashed to to [00:17:35] begin to taste life in a different way. So I don’t [00:17:40] know who does know why. You know, why do these things? Why does it happen? I [00:17:45] mean.

Payman Langroudi: How does it feel?

Sharon Walsh: How did it feel when [00:17:50] I had the breakdown? It’s [00:17:55] a feeling of being totally and utterly [00:18:00] lost. Smashed, not able to function. You [00:18:05] can’t eat. You can’t drink. Well, you can’t talk. [00:18:10] Hardly. You can’t sit. You can’t stand. It’s [00:18:15] revolting.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:18:20] must be tough.

Sharon Walsh: It was.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:18:25] what happened next? You were stuck in that situation.

Sharon Walsh: I [00:18:30] am. My ex took control very quickly [00:18:35] and after three months I went to the doctors and I fell in to [00:18:40] the doctors and she gave me. She put me some antidepressants and she said, come back the next [00:18:45] week. They didn’t even hardly touch me. And within [00:18:50] two weeks he gave my practice away for a pound.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:18:55] were still married at that point.

Sharon Walsh: He gave the practice away [00:19:00] for a pound payment to a nurse who was working there as a locum nurse.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:19:05] were there debts? Was that the problem?

Sharon Walsh: No.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you do that?

Sharon Walsh: Because [00:19:10] he couldn’t cope. And he’d lost work, too. He’d. You know, his work had [00:19:15] reduced at the university, and he was ten years older than me. He was looking to retire. And, [00:19:20] I mean, I was happy to carry on. I would have carried on until I dropped, probably. And [00:19:25] I think he panicked, and he just. He gave it away. [00:19:30]

Payman Langroudi: How did he manage to do that without your consent?

Sharon Walsh: Because [00:19:35] I was in no fit form to to do anything. [00:19:40] And he told me that legally, if you [00:19:45] can’t work for a period of two weeks, that it’s it’s illegal to keep working. [00:19:50] And I don’t know if that’s correct, but that’s what he told me at the time. [00:19:55] And so this woman and her, um, [00:20:00] avaricious, greedy partner took it. Um, [00:20:05] and that was it. And I just broke more and [00:20:10] more. And the next thing I know, I was starting to drink gin and tonics. [00:20:15]

Payman Langroudi: I bet.

Sharon Walsh: And [00:20:20] one gin and tonic became two.

Payman Langroudi: And were you and your husband separated at [00:20:25] this point, too, or not quite yet.

Sharon Walsh: No, I mean, this was only early on. This was like [00:20:30] May 2017. So the associate had left. I’d had a, you know, another guy [00:20:35] come in that hadn’t worked and he’d given the practice [00:20:40] away. I just didn’t know what to do. I knew in my heart that it’s like, what? What [00:20:45] the hell are we going to do? You know, I’d I’d put my everything into [00:20:50] this place. Made it beautiful. Spent probably the best part of 300 [00:20:55] grand on it that I did myself. Wow. And [00:21:00] I just thought, well, you know what? I’d go back and work in the NHS. [00:21:05] I didn’t want to do that because it nearly killed me working in the NHS. We all know [00:21:10] what it’s like. Yeah. Um, [00:21:15] so I just. I had to accept [00:21:20] where I was, I guess. But I started drinking. And the [00:21:25] thing is with alcohol Payman is that there’s an invisible line. And [00:21:30] once you cross it, you are in, um, [00:21:35] you’re in serious trouble.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:21:40] how long was that going on for? Was it very quickly [00:21:45] that you fell into that?

Sharon Walsh: Uh, I think it was quite quickly that I fell into it. Yeah. [00:21:50] And then, um, Martin got me admitted [00:21:55] into hospital till I stopped. And at that time, I worked really [00:22:00] hard. And it was, you know, I, I was just struggling to [00:22:05] hang on. But I’ve got such a strong will inside [00:22:10] and a strong faith that I just went with it. And by the end of the [00:22:15] three months, they consultants had you fit to go back to work. So I [00:22:20] came out and I did. I went back to work. I went to went to work for another corporates. Between [00:22:25] March 2018 and November and I started working five [00:22:30] days a week in the NHS. Wow.

Payman Langroudi: That must have felt very different.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, [00:22:35] well, it was.

Payman Langroudi: The years of being in private.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. Back to like, 20 odd people [00:22:40] a day being treated so horrendously by the management. Just, [00:22:45] you know, I mean, I think the corporate world is just I think it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Improving, [00:22:50] though. I think it’s improving a lot.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. I don’t know because I’ve not been in it for five years. But [00:22:55] it was they’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Realised they’ve realised the most expensive thing is losing an associate.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. You [00:23:00] can’t treat people the way that you treated. You know, you can’t treat people like that.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s very [00:23:05] site dependent as well. You know the particular branch that you’re in sometimes, you know, what [00:23:10] I found with the corporates is the practice manager. And the area manager [00:23:15] are the two most powerful people in the organisation. And if you [00:23:20] happen to have a bad combination of practice and engineering manager in that particular [00:23:25] location that you’re in. Everyone’s life can be ruined by that, and [00:23:30] vice versa as well if you have a brilliant ones. I’ve seen some very, very, very happy, happy [00:23:35] branches and sad branches in the same corporate, same business. [00:23:40] And you’d expect it, you know, the 600 branches. It’s going to be both types of directors. [00:23:45] Sure, but the dentist is less important. The associate [00:23:50] is less powerful than in an independent situation I found. [00:23:55] So were you drinking? The drinking had stopped at this point. Or were you [00:24:00] undercover drinking?

Sharon Walsh: Um, well, my husband [00:24:05] left me, and he went to go back to. He took my little girl and he went to go back and live in Manchester. [00:24:10] So I was working and going home to a big empty [00:24:15] house, and I was drinking, like, four cans of gin and tonic at night. [00:24:20] Passing out. Waking up in the morning. Going to work. Not eating. Coming [00:24:25] back. I managed to function for about eight months.

Payman Langroudi: That’s. That’s a reality [00:24:30] for more of us than we want to admit to. Sometimes [00:24:35] there’s a there’s a number of people functioning alcoholics. [00:24:40] Right. That’s what that is who you know, just and I guess the way it [00:24:45] works, I mean, I’ve never really, really understood been there myself, but but the way I understand [00:24:50] it is if you have a heavy night and then you go to work, work is [00:24:55] so hard that at the end of work you just want to drink just to the fact that you [00:25:00] got through it and that cycle repeats.

Sharon Walsh: It is it’s like [00:25:05] a to begin with. It’s it’s just a cycle. And I guess [00:25:10] the reality is when you for me going back to an empty home without [00:25:15] my husband and my kids there and knowing that the business that I loved [00:25:20] was ten minutes up the road and it wasn’t mine anymore. I [00:25:25] just, I drank. Why? Because it numbs the pain. [00:25:30] It numbs and it dumbs and it. [00:25:35] And then it begins to take a hold and you can’t [00:25:40] stop. And that’s the scary part.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:25:45] that went on for eight months. Yeah. And then. How [00:25:50] did you how did you feel about the fact he’d taken your child away? I mean, [00:25:55] that that kind of been comfortable. Were [00:26:00] you in touch?

Sharon Walsh: Um, no. Not really. He wouldn’t let me see her. [00:26:05] And my big one was still in and out. She [00:26:10] was working towards going to university. I [00:26:15] think I don’t blame I, [00:26:20] I don’t I have to work on forgiveness. And [00:26:25] this is what acceptance is. It’s forgiving and and knowing [00:26:30] that whatever’s happening is meant to be and is for a reason. So I [00:26:35] don’t blame him for what he did. I wouldn’t want to live with an alcoholic, somebody [00:26:40] who becomes useless and not functioning. I [00:26:45] would do the same in his position, and all I wanted was [00:26:50] for my girls to be okay and they are okay, so. I [00:26:55] have to accept it. Payman I you know, I [00:27:00] can’t. You can never force a relationship with another human being and that [00:27:05] and that’s something I have to, you know, that comes into my mind every [00:27:10] day. You can’t you can’t force somebody. You can’t beg somebody. You [00:27:15] can’t chase somebody. It’s relationships come and go, and [00:27:20] some people stay for a little bit. Some people stay for longer. [00:27:25] And ultimately we’re all on our own. It’s you know, [00:27:30] it. Ultimately, the the path is each of our paths is different. And. [00:27:35] And I truly believe [00:27:40] now and I feel this more and more deeply. I am I’m just I’m [00:27:45] here for a little bit longer, you know, and I’m just something that’s [00:27:50] within a body that’s here to learn lessons. And that is the [00:27:55] that is the meaning and purpose behind it all. So [00:28:00] where my life was so much in the outer world and about [00:28:05] success and trying to be the best dentist and the best mom and the best wife. It’s [00:28:10] actually [00:28:15] about for me anyway. It’s about the soul learning what it [00:28:20] needs to learn in this, in this incarnation and this journey.

Sharon Walsh: And [00:28:25] when it’s learned what it needs, I’ll go. But [00:28:30] saying that, I think there [00:28:35] has to be now for me anyway, there needs to be a merging with the inner and the outer. So. [00:28:40] There’s things that I’d like to [00:28:45] do now, but I’m not scared of death anymore. I’m not scared [00:28:50] of telling the truth. I’m not scared of standing up and being vulnerable. Um. [00:28:55] I want to tell the truth, because I think that unless people [00:29:00] do say and tell the truth, we’re not going to change. Unless I stand now [00:29:05] and say, you know, this is what happened with me with the GDC. And I hope somebody who works [00:29:10] for the GDC listens to listens to this because unless they change what they’re [00:29:15] doing, more people are going to keep taking their own lives. More people are going to become [00:29:20] addicts, and they sit there in their lofty positions, in their jobs, [00:29:25] thinking that they have power over people. Well [00:29:30] they do. False power. But what they don’t understand [00:29:35] is that they’re crushing other souls. He has to change. They [00:29:40] can’t treat other human beings like they’re doing, you know, a professional [00:29:45] people. Why do we beat dentists? Why did I choose dentistry? Because I wanted to help other [00:29:50] people and heal them. They say that they protect the [00:29:55] public. Well, who is the public? And [00:30:00] why do they take a hefty fee off us and not protect us? [00:30:05] They don’t give us any protection. What they do is crush [00:30:10] crushers for the most inane. A lot a lot of stories I’ve heard for the just [00:30:15] the most ridiculous mistakes that any human being can make. And [00:30:20] then they they’ll crush somebody and stop them from working and earning a living.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:30:25] think it’s better GDC wise as [00:30:30] well. Talking to people involved. Um, but [00:30:35] tell me about the GDC experience. What was it? How long did it take.

Sharon Walsh: The pain [00:30:40] on my neck for? Seven years.

Payman Langroudi: Seven years? Yeah. Seven [00:30:45] years. So you’ve got mountains of paperwork and [00:30:50] just lawyers and. Yeah. Seven [00:30:55] years. And the crux of [00:31:00] it.

Sharon Walsh: Never give up.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:31:05] the crux of what they were saying. The fitness to practice thing. Do [00:31:10] you want to talk about that.

Sharon Walsh: Or you don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Mind? You don’t have.

Sharon Walsh: To. I don’t mind talking about it. I mean, the last review was [00:31:15] in November. They used evidence that [00:31:20] was incorrect against me. Two major things. One, [00:31:25] they employed a doctor consultant psychiatrist who I met three times [00:31:30] over a zoom who asked me the most banal and inane questions [00:31:35] that were one dimensional, and then decided he’d make a diagnosis [00:31:40] that nobody else has diagnosed me with. And [00:31:45] when it came to the actual review, he was sat there and then he said, can I go now, please? [00:31:50] I’ve got other activities. And [00:31:55] then by no, I mean, it’s three years now. Come March, [00:32:00] I’ve, you know, since I’ve touched a drop of alcohol. And I never will again as long as I live. [00:32:05] But they based it on the fact that I hadn’t drunk for 18 months because of a hair sample. That [00:32:10] said, there was nought point, nought, nought something percentage of alcohol [00:32:15] in it, which I’d said to my lawyers, it’s well, it’s not alcohol. The only thing [00:32:20] that can be is the hair sample. So. So [00:32:25] they were going on the fact that I’ve not drunk for 18 months, which [00:32:30] is a lie. And then you sit there, you’re not allowed to say anything [00:32:35] that times they. Well, first of all, they weren’t on time [00:32:40] through each session they were late. And then they start cracking jokes with [00:32:45] each other whilst you’re sat there helpless, watching them discussing your life. Is [00:32:50] antiquated. So they go back to [00:32:55] her. There was an older chap there who was obviously a lawyer, and he, you know, he just [00:33:00] kept talking about the exacting points of law, which you don’t [00:33:05] even, you know, you can’t even begin to comprehend it. And as a, you know, as [00:33:10] a healthcare professional, we’re not lawyers.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I mean, I’ve been involved in one [00:33:15] legal case. And for those who haven’t, I think the most important thing [00:33:20] was that the first time you were ever involved in a legal situation, the GDC. [00:33:25] So the first time you go into it thinking, well, you know, the truth will out and [00:33:30] a lawyer is a lawyer and you know that that’s that’s the way I was going [00:33:35] into it. The truth will come out finally. But then you realise [00:33:40] actually it’s a it’s a real specialised situation of its own and [00:33:45] kind of how good your lawyer is is the most important variable [00:33:50] in the whole thing rather than what actually happened. Yeah. And often [00:33:55] the if you’re, if the other side and whoever the other side is [00:34:00] understands the law, they can really manipulate that outcome. And [00:34:05] obviously the other side does understand the law.

Sharon Walsh: So I [00:34:10] don’t trust anything in our life anymore. Really I don’t. Because [00:34:15] out of life and because we function from an ego, and [00:34:20] it’s not until you taste that and begin to detach from it [00:34:25] that you see that there is no, um, there’s no winner and loser in [00:34:30] outer life. And you’re right, the law is, um, [00:34:35] the law is for people who specialise in the law. But you get involved with these [00:34:40] people and they will use that to batter [00:34:45] you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Tell me about recovery. What [00:34:50] was the moment? What was what was the sort of inflection point? Were you the sort of classical [00:34:55] hitter all time low and decided you had to make a change [00:35:00] situation? Or how did it did it.

Sharon Walsh: Happen with the.

Payman Langroudi: Alcohol?

Sharon Walsh: Well, [00:35:05] the journey then after I finished working for the corporate, [00:35:10] it’s been six years. I’ve probably been in about 16 different places, [00:35:15] passed from pillar to post, rehab [00:35:20] to rehab because my ex didn’t want me back, breaking more and more. I [00:35:25] went to Italy on my own. [00:35:30] That was the last time I saw him. Had come out of hospital again and I thought [00:35:35] I was homeless. He’d taken my inheritance from my mum. I [00:35:40] had nothing. Apart from a suitcase with a few old clothes in it. He sold my house. [00:35:45] Taken every single thing. So I got to saw my girls. And him for the [00:35:50] last time was in October 2019. And I got [00:35:55] on a plane to Italy. And [00:36:00] then there was another two years of [00:36:05] trying to make a life in Italy and then going to Thailand and spending eight months [00:36:10] there. And then I came back and I fell into into big time drinking. [00:36:15] And I was, um, I was dying. And [00:36:20] one day I got [00:36:25] up and there was one person in my life called Jack, who was an 88 year [00:36:30] old Ex-gangster who lived two doors away from me, and he [00:36:35] saved my life. Payman. And because I used, he [00:36:40] gave me a reason to live. And I got up one day and I had half [00:36:45] a bottle of wine in the fridge. And I stood there at the sink and I poured it down the sink. [00:36:50] And I’ve never touched a drop since.

Payman Langroudi: But what was it? What was it? What was [00:36:55] the reason that at that point?

Sharon Walsh: Because I didn’t want [00:37:00] my daughters. To know that their [00:37:05] mum had died of being an alcoholic.

Payman Langroudi: So when you say you were dying, you [00:37:10] could feel that your health was getting worse every day or something. How could you? [00:37:15] How could you feel that you were dying at that point, rather than six months before that point, or [00:37:20] one year before that point? What happened?

Sharon Walsh: I was lying in [00:37:25] bed because I didn’t get out of bed that much for a while, and I closed [00:37:30] my eyes. And. In my [00:37:35] mind’s eye, I saw two angels stood at the foot of the bed.

Payman Langroudi: Whoa! [00:37:40]

Sharon Walsh: And. [00:37:50] I [00:37:55] just knew that I had to stop and I knew that. [00:38:00] I knew that I needed to carry on.

Payman Langroudi: Well, [00:38:05] were you spiritual [00:38:10] before?

Sharon Walsh: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t sort of find some. [00:38:15] I mean, this the way you were talking about outer world. Inner world? Yeah. [00:38:20] Were you always spiritual?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, since I was a kid. And then with my husband, I had a long spiritual [00:38:25] search. So my life has started again. Is [00:38:30] based around prayer. I go, um, I love going and sitting in churches. I [00:38:35] have a Sufi sheikh, so I go and sit with. I go and sit with him. [00:38:40] I’ve been to. Yeah, I’ve met some amazing people. I [00:38:45] spent time with a Zen Buddhist monk called Thich Nhat Hanh in France. I [00:38:50] went to live with him for a while Um. [00:38:55]

Payman Langroudi: So the journey, the journey from that moment of [00:39:00] realisation that you wanted to choose life and [00:39:05] you poured that wine down the sink to [00:39:10] the person you’ve become now to seems resilient because, [00:39:15] you know, in substance abuse, a lot of times you’re sort of not resilient. [00:39:20] And you turn to the substance to how have you, how have you [00:39:25] done that? How have you, have you? Have you? Is it is it like, have you gone into the spiritual side and learned more [00:39:30] about it and learned more about yourself? And is that what it is?

Sharon Walsh: For [00:39:35] me, and I think if it’s for me, then it’s probably for [00:39:40] for most of us, really. There comes a time when you have to go [00:39:45] within and you have to start peeling back [00:39:50] the layers that we hide behind. And [00:39:55] as painful as it is, and as as [00:40:00] tough as it is to look at all the all those [00:40:05] masks, all those fears, those anxieties, the doubts, [00:40:10] the selfishness, the lies, the deceit. When [00:40:15] you start to walk into it, then [00:40:20] the fear and the anxiety start to dissipate and you [00:40:25] start to dissociate from it. So.

Payman Langroudi: Is [00:40:30] that what you mean by acceptance?

Sharon Walsh: Yes. It’s [00:40:35] not that it goes away. I was scared coming down here today. [00:40:40] I was I didn’t, you know, I thought, My God, I’ve not really [00:40:45] I mean, Anil said, you’ve got to plan for it and make sure you go and you look smart. And [00:40:50] I’m thinking.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Sharon Walsh: I.

Payman Langroudi: Was always worried about how everyone looks.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. He [00:40:55] was like that when he was at dental school. I love you. I know, honestly, I love him to bits. We do. And [00:41:00] do you know what, I adore him. He’s just. Honestly. Which I’m [00:41:05] so blessed with. Good friends at Payman. And, you know, it’s what [00:41:10] makes life really connection to beautiful people. And [00:41:15] then accepting and rejection from others, walking [00:41:20] away from others that hurt your soul. But when you’re with them and those people. [00:41:25] Now I’m beginning to kind of look at that as a blessing, because [00:41:30] those that hurt you and try to destroy you, and whose souls you [00:41:35] bang up against, his personalities you bang up against. They’re your greatest teachers. [00:41:40] Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: You know that. Have you, have you had any [00:41:45] sort of guilt along the way that you’ve had to sort of forgive yourself for.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. [00:41:50] I’m always giving myself a hard time.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I mean that learning to forgive yourself [00:41:55] is a big skill in itself, right? I mean, all of us are a bit too hard on ourselves sometimes.

Sharon Walsh: I’m [00:42:00] very hard on myself. But then there comes a point. Sometimes you have to say, do you know what, [00:42:05] Shaz? Just. Forgive yourself [00:42:10] and be kind to yourself. Even if it’s just for half an hour a day. Mhm. [00:42:15] Because, you know, I don’t know what you’re like but people you know, give me compliments and, [00:42:20] and I was like oh. So. Um [00:42:25] but yeah I think you have to learn [00:42:30] to start forgiving.

Payman Langroudi: And how did you feel for [00:42:35] instance did you when when these things are happening, do you think what will people think [00:42:40] of me, piers? The shame [00:42:45] of sort of GDC, hearing that sort of thing.

Sharon Walsh: Well, you know [00:42:50] what? I guess there’s a lot of people out there who [00:42:55] who think that they know me. The thing underneath it all is that [00:43:00] nobody really knows anybody else. So you will no doubt [00:43:05] have judgements or thoughts about others, but. And judgements [00:43:10] and thoughts about me and our little meeting. But you don’t really know the whole of me, and I don’t know [00:43:15] the whole of me either. So I know that some people will [00:43:20] think that I’m a, you know, will you and will want to batter me if they wish to, with [00:43:25] the fact that, you know, I’ve had mental illness, anxiety and depression and a nervous breakdown, [00:43:30] and I became an alcoholic. So therefore they were probably thinking in [00:43:35] their own mind that because they haven’t had that, then they are somewhat superior to to [00:43:40] me. And that kind of when you feel that superior ness, it kind [00:43:45] of gives you a little buzz inside. You know, you stick your chicken breast out and you think I’m better than you are. [00:43:50] Do you know what the greatest people on the earth are? Those who are homeless. The [00:43:55] greatest people I’ve met are those who are alcoholics and addicts. [00:44:00] Those who suffer and get real. I [00:44:05] know what it’s like to be wealthy. Yeah, I, uh. [00:44:10] So does it hurt? Yeah. [00:44:15] It does. Of course it hurts. What people think about you. But [00:44:20] the truth is, human beings all talk about each other, don’t we? We all [00:44:25] talk about each other behind each other’s back, so. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:44:30] it’s interesting what you’re saying in that, you know, you take the person before [00:44:35] all of this happened, the perfect mum, principal wife. [00:44:40] There were massive unresolved issues [00:44:45] in that person who looked so perfect. And then you’re saying, [00:44:50] now the best people in the world are homeless alcoholics, and it’s because [00:44:55] they’ve been broken to the core, which inevitably is a beautiful [00:45:00] thing. Yeah. The core.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, the core of somebody. Yeah. [00:45:05] Yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: A beautiful idea.

Sharon Walsh: Well, you know, Jesus said, didn’t he? In the Bible, [00:45:10] the meek shall inherit the earth, right? The thing [00:45:15] is that the outer life, it’s like the desires that we have. [00:45:20] We think that, you know, if we can make lots of money, we [00:45:25] think that, you know, I’m a doctor, I’m a dentist. If [00:45:30] I’ve got, you know, a beautiful partner and [00:45:35] two kids and I live in a five bedroom house and I drive an Audi Q3. And [00:45:40] you think you’ve made it. And that’s. But [00:45:45] it’s an illusion. The whole thing [00:45:50] is an illusion. Payman. Yeah, it’s an illusion.

Payman Langroudi: I reflect on [00:45:55] that all the time. You know that your relationship with your car is the [00:46:00] same whichever car you drive. It really is. [00:46:05] You know, I’ve had terrible cars and I’ve had brilliant cars. And your relationship with [00:46:10] your car is not worth talking about. It’s not, it’s not. It’s not a relationship. But [00:46:15] people people will will, you know, lay their lives on the line to, [00:46:20] to get that car, you know, to work on a Sunday, work on a Saturday to [00:46:25] pay for that car. And it’s the same with all things, all possessions and and [00:46:30] even achievements. And I mean, now you’re saying even you’re going even deeper than that and saying the [00:46:35] whole shebang. The whole shebang is an illusion.

Sharon Walsh: Well, I don’t [00:46:40] have, you know, I was I Sir. I was very wealthy and I come from [00:46:45] a very wealthy family. And now I’m not. I’m relatively [00:46:50] poor, so. But you know what? [00:46:55] I bought a new car last week for the first time in eight years, and it’s the best thing [00:47:00] that’s happened to me. It’s not an Audi Q3. It’s a tiny little Nissan [00:47:05] Micra, but I’m grateful for it. And every time I sit in it, I think thank [00:47:10] you. The hardest thing I find is to be grateful. I [00:47:15] have to work on that every day, get up and think I’m still alive, right? [00:47:20] Go for a cup of tea. I am grateful for this cup of tea because it’s [00:47:25] not until I’ve been stood on the street homeless. Once I [00:47:30] was homeless, with a suitcase with tattered clothes in it [00:47:35] and a bank card that my ex-husband was in control with. And I’m telling you, when you have got [00:47:40] nothing. It’s the most scariest feeling in the world. Got [00:47:45] nowhere to go. No one to go to.

Payman Langroudi: So what were you doing? Where were you sleeping?

Sharon Walsh: I [00:47:50] was in. It was the last rehab I was in, in Scarborough. And [00:47:55] they threw me out because I just couldn’t take it anymore. I lay in bed one day, [00:48:00] and then the manager came and he said, right, you got 20 minutes to get out. I’m like, I’ve got nowhere [00:48:05] to go. He said, I don’t care. Get out. Wow. So I packed my bag and I stood [00:48:10] there on the street.

Payman Langroudi: Did that feel like a rock bottom? [00:48:15] Must have.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, it was really scary. [00:48:20] So what did you do? I went to a bed and breakfast. [00:48:25] And then [00:48:30] there’d been a guy who’d picked me up from Heathrow airport when I came back from Thailand [00:48:35] that my ex had somehow sorted out. And [00:48:40] I phoned him and he came to the bed and breakfast and [00:48:45] I phoned my sister. And she [00:48:50] said, come here. [00:48:55] My sister saved my life twice. So [00:49:00] I went I went to my sister’s.

Payman Langroudi: Where [00:49:05] was she?

Sharon Walsh: In Leeds.

Payman Langroudi: Where [00:49:10] you now live as well?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, [00:49:15] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Whoa! What a story. Now [00:49:20] you can practice again after seven long years. Yeah. How [00:49:25] are you feeling about that?

Sharon Walsh: Nervous? I [00:49:30] don’t know if it’s what I want to do anymore. I’ll always [00:49:35] feel passionate about my profession. Um, [00:49:40] I have a close friend who’s offered for me [00:49:45] to go up and shadow her in her practice, and then she said, well, you look, [00:49:50] Sharon. She said, we could maybe book some patients in for you and just do some check-ups and some [00:49:55] hygiene. And I’m thinking, well, why not?

Payman Langroudi: Does she know your [00:50:00] whole story?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, yeah, she’s one of my closest pals.

Payman Langroudi: A lovely friend, a lovely friend.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. [00:50:05] So. So I’m going to do that. And. [00:50:10] Like I said, I just.

Payman Langroudi: See where you go from there. [00:50:15] Yeah, I.

Sharon Walsh: Just take I just take one day at a time. Literally. I have to live in the now [00:50:20] because I can’t.

Payman Langroudi: So are you worried [00:50:25] that you won’t want to do the job anymore? Is that what it is or that you weren’t? You’re [00:50:30] not up to doing the job anymore.

Sharon Walsh: I think I’m worried that. Yeah, both, I guess.

Payman Langroudi: Nah, you’ll be [00:50:35] fine. I took I took six years off. Did you? I mean, you know, [00:50:40] albeit when we started the company and then I went back and they [00:50:45] the first two weeks were tough, but after that it was fine. Yeah. Um, [00:50:50] you’ll be fine. Regarding pulling it off the, the clinical, you know, aspects of it that what you say to patients. [00:50:55] All of that is hardwired in after you’ve done it for as long as you’ve done it. Um, but [00:51:00] the question of would you want to do it? I think that’ll be the bigger challenge because, [00:51:05] you know, you’re a different person now to [00:51:10] the person you were then. Yeah, I am. That [00:51:15] said, we’re lucky in dentistry. You know, we can do one day a week if we want [00:51:20] to, two days a week. I think two days. I’ve done all [00:51:25] of it. I’ve done one day a week for years, but did not anymore. But I did for 5 or 6 years. [00:51:30] It’s not correct. You just you don’t get into a rhythm, Them. But two days a week [00:51:35] I think is wonderful life. Dentistry for two days is amazing. And [00:51:40] you know, we’re lucky in that in two days we could make as much money as most people could make in a week.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. [00:51:45] You’re right. And that’s what I’m thinking of. You know, two [00:51:50] days, two days a week would be enough.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:51:55] And then pursue something else. You know, I mean, I asked [00:52:00] you, why are you here? Why? Why have you come to tell this [00:52:05] story? Well, you know, on, on, on paper, you might think this is something that you might want [00:52:10] to sort of keep quiet. And you said, tell me. Well, tell [00:52:15] tell me again. Come down. Yeah. Why? Why are you here?

Sharon Walsh: Because [00:52:20] I’m standing up for truth and reality. And [00:52:25] if one person listens to this, who’s on the edge of whatever [00:52:30] they’re on the edge of either in the working life or the [00:52:35] home life, and they’re about to turn to drink or drugs, [00:52:40] or they’re facing a GDC hearing, or [00:52:45] they’re thinking about doing something inside that they know that they [00:52:50] shouldn’t. Then I stand as that voice to say, never give up. And. [00:52:55] I know that in your heart [00:53:00] space and know that within there is a guide that guides us all. So [00:53:05] and that compelled me to come down. Really? So [00:53:10] you asked me where you think I’m going. I’ve started to write a book and [00:53:15] I’m being guided by my sheikh. He’s helping me, [00:53:20] and I think I’m going to call it the naked Soul, because [00:53:25] that’s how I feel. I am Payman, I [00:53:30] feel like I don’t. I don’t really feel in this life anymore. I [00:53:35] don’t feel like I fit. I never really felt like I fitted in anywhere I [00:53:40] don’t. I feel less and less. I see and taste life in a different way. It’s crazy. [00:53:45] The truth is, it’s crazy. And when you really look at what we’re doing, [00:53:50] what are we doing and what’s it all about? And having been around [00:53:55] people, addicts, people who have got close to and lost. Yeah, [00:54:00] you see that? You know, we could go any time. [00:54:05] So I think my next step is I’m writing this book.

Payman Langroudi: And then so [00:54:10] the book is about your story. Yeah, yeah. [00:54:15] And how far are you in it? You near the near the end or near the beginning?

Sharon Walsh: No, I’m near the beginning. [00:54:20] I get up each morning and I sit and pray, meditate, pray. And then I just [00:54:25] talk into my phone about. I just [00:54:30] talk? I talk and and tell my journey like I’ve been telling you. And then I’m [00:54:35] going to get it written.

Payman Langroudi: And is there catharsis in it? I mean, does it? [00:54:40] Yeah. Does it heal you to talk about it, to think about it?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. It does. And [00:54:45] I mean, it’s been so much to deal with, so little kind of I think [00:54:50] my mind allows certain things to come in when I’m ready to see it. [00:54:55] Like, I still find it very difficult to even think about my ex-husband. [00:55:00] It’s so painful. And then think about [00:55:05] my children. It hurts a lot, but [00:55:10] I’m starting to, you know, to look at it and and feel just [00:55:15] just be with it. Be with everything that comes up.

Payman Langroudi: Does [00:55:20] your. Feeling [00:55:25] towards your children. How [00:55:30] would you characterise that?

Sharon Walsh: It’s [00:55:35] a depth of love that never [00:55:40] goes away. I [00:55:45] miss my [00:55:50] little girl very much. [00:55:55] Um. And I just pray every day that she’ll [00:56:00] come back into my life. And she did text me at Christmas, which was really [00:56:05] sweet. And so I just, um, I send a little messages most days [00:56:10] with pictures about what I’m doing. And then my big ones [00:56:15] were close, so that’s really lovely. But [00:56:20] she’s in New Zealand.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so are you waiting for your younger one [00:56:25] to invite you back into your life.

Sharon Walsh: Is that I guess I am. Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah, I think [00:56:30] I am. I’d love it to be back in my life.

Payman Langroudi: That [00:56:35] must hurt.

Sharon Walsh: It does.

Payman Langroudi: That must hurt. We [00:56:40] on this pod, we like to talk about mistakes. Clinical mistakes generally. [00:56:45]

Sharon Walsh: But yeah, I guess I made a lot of those.

Payman Langroudi: Leave. Leave clinical to [00:56:50] one side. What mistakes have you made? I mean, outside of the [00:56:55] obvious. What? I’m good at making mistakes. Yeah, but what mistakes? [00:57:00] Like when you go, when you think back on the journey. I mean, [00:57:05] I’d say in this journey, maybe from what, the tiny bit of it. I understand the mistake might have been marrying [00:57:10] that man, you know, like, it could be that.

Sharon Walsh: I [00:57:15] don’t have any. I don’t I don’t have any regrets.

Payman Langroudi: I think of it like that.

Sharon Walsh: No, because it has. [00:57:20] Everything is as it is, as it is. And you do what you do at the time. Mistakes. [00:57:25] I wish I’d been strong enough not [00:57:30] to break and to just ride through the process with the practice. [00:57:35] And in fact, there was a lady who came for interview and we bonded and [00:57:40] we’ve stayed in touch. And I really wish that. I [00:57:45] really wish that I’d taken her on because, [00:57:50] I mean, she went on to have her own practice and then she’s actually had a lot of problems and she’s left the country. [00:57:55] She’s gone to start a new life abroad. But I suppose mistakes. [00:58:00] Yeah. I think if I’d have taken her on, maybe it would have worked. [00:58:05] Clinical [00:58:10] mistakes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about those.

Sharon Walsh: I [00:58:15] was thinking about this when I was coming down, actually, because I saw it in you on the [00:58:20] email. I just thought it was a funny one that one that came to mind. I was working with a new technician [00:58:25] prosthetic. Technician. And I was making two sets of four falls [00:58:30] with him. And the trains were great. And I was really happy [00:58:35] with what we were doing. And it came to fit. And the first person. Came in, and I [00:58:40] took the dentures out and tried to fit the upper, and it just went nowhere near.

Payman Langroudi: The wrong [00:58:45] patient.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. And I was like, you know, when you try to run and I’m thinking. The train was [00:58:50] perfect. And I’m like.

[TRANSITION]: Oh.

Sharon Walsh: No, he put the dentures in the wrong [00:58:55] bags. So you.

Payman Langroudi: Tried the other set, ready to.

Sharon Walsh: Try the other [00:59:00] set ready. But it didn’t even cross my mind. And I’m just thinking, what have I [00:59:05] done wrong?

Payman Langroudi: Oh I see.

Sharon Walsh: So that’s one of the funniest [00:59:10] things. Ever. It wasn’t funny at the time.

Payman Langroudi: What did you do? You apologise to the patient and, [00:59:15] uh. Called the lab.

Sharon Walsh: I can’t even know. I think I had both sets there. I [00:59:20] think I think I went back in. I think I actually after about half an hour of trying to shove this [00:59:25] up attention, I went in the back and thought, My God, I think that the back, the dentures [00:59:30] are in the wrong bags. Oh gosh. I [00:59:35] think. You know, when you’re younger, I remember thinking [00:59:40] I needed to try and save every single tooth and every single person’s mouth. Yeah. [00:59:45] And as you get older, you realise you can’t do that.

Payman Langroudi: Some hero antics.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah [00:59:50] I tried, yeah, I tried to be a hero dentist.

Payman Langroudi: In my, in my early career [00:59:55] when before I understood this, I used to go subgingival caries [01:00:00] removal. It would become an RCT and it would all be subgingival. And I’d [01:00:05] still think I can do this. Yeah. And, you know, try and keep this, find that canal [01:00:10] and keep it all dry. And then you realise you can’t. You can’t.

Sharon Walsh: No you can’t. [01:00:15]

Payman Langroudi: Even on the times that it worked, it probably didn’t work for long. No.

Sharon Walsh: You can only [01:00:20] do what you can do. Um. And [01:00:25] it’s hard. You know, I think as dentists, we’re in this little surgery on our own a lot of the time, [01:00:30] and we’re having to make decisions on the spur of the moment. [01:00:35] And, you know, if you are, if you come [01:00:40] from a place where you’re empathetic and you care and you’re compassionate, you just want to help everybody. [01:00:45] But as time goes along, you realise you can’t. You can’t do that. [01:00:50]

Payman Langroudi: Why do you think dentists take their own lives more than others?

Sharon Walsh: I. [01:01:00] Well, I’ve. Dentistry is the only job I’ve ever known, but [01:01:05] I think that it is. I think that it’s a very [01:01:10] lonely job. Payman. I think it is. You know, obviously you are with another [01:01:15] being and you pick up the up the energy from the other being. And [01:01:20] a lot of the time when they’re coming, it’s, you know, it’s negative. They’re scared. They’re anxious. [01:01:25] They don’t want to pay you. And you pick this all up. And [01:01:30] I think that it’s a constant endurance test, [01:01:35] you know, working with another human being in the mouth, which [01:01:40] is the most intimate part of another person’s body. [01:01:45] And it takes its toll. Yeah. [01:01:50] It takes its toll on you. And, you know, physically, it takes its toll. And I used to be really [01:01:55] stiff physically. And then I found yoga, which is where I’m going back to it. [01:02:00] It just booked in yesterday.

Payman Langroudi: Nice. But my cousins are eye surgeon and [01:02:05] he was telling me on his GAA days he [01:02:10] has a lovely relaxed day, but on his LA days they’re twice as [01:02:15] stressful. Yeah. And and you know, they’re having to put injections in the eyes and [01:02:20] it’s a similar a live patient who you’re potentially going [01:02:25] to hurt. And every time you give an LA potentially you’re going to cause [01:02:30] pain there. Yeah. But you’re right. You take on that stress [01:02:35] from every patient. Yeah. You do the four walls, [01:02:40] the loneliness of it. I completely accept as well. I mean, even though [01:02:45] it’s a people job, the only person who’s there the whole time is your nurse. [01:02:50] And I’ve often thought, you know, I got on with most of my nurses, the [01:02:55] vast majority. But if you don’t, if there’s a situation where you’ve got a clash with [01:03:00] your nurse, your nurse hates you. Let’s say for whatever reason, [01:03:05] now you’re coming in every day to a room with someone who you’re not getting [01:03:10] on with, and then you’ve got this stress of each patient Then [01:03:15] throw in a GDC case. Yeah.

Sharon Walsh: So to [01:03:20] answer the question, isn’t it? Yeah. You know, a human being can only take so much.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:03:25]

Sharon Walsh: I can’t believe I’m alive. I don’t know why I’m alive.

Payman Langroudi: Did [01:03:30] you ever have the sort of suicidal ideation? Did you think about taking [01:03:35] your own life?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like how how how much? Like, [01:03:40] explain that to me. Should talk me through that. You got to a point of saying I’m going [01:03:45] to do it, or the feeling of wanting to do it kept coming up in [01:03:50] your head. Yeah.

Sharon Walsh: It had enough. Sometimes. I’ve had enough now. Yeah. [01:03:55] You still.

Payman Langroudi: Think about.

Sharon Walsh: It? Um. I would never take my own [01:04:00] life, but I go to. I often go to bed, you know, and I.

Payman Langroudi: Get to an edge.

Sharon Walsh: I get to an edge, [01:04:05] and I think I’m tired. I’m tired of, you know, every day. Every day [01:04:10] is hard. Every day is a challenge. Alonge [01:04:15] and I. And sometimes I think I say, Dear God, [01:04:20] I’ve had enough. I just want to go home. I’ve tasted death. [01:04:25] And you know what? It’s actually very beautiful. It’s [01:04:30] actually a release. And [01:04:35] so what’s there to be scared of? Annie [01:04:40] Lennox, you remember the. Yeah. She wrote some words and she went in [01:04:45] this song. Dying is easy. It’s living that scares me to death.

Payman Langroudi: Nice [01:04:50] twist at the end.

Sharon Walsh: It does scare me to death. I [01:04:55] talk to my shake. I’m like, I don’t know what to do anymore. What do I do? My [01:05:00] husband’s gone. I don’t own a home. My kids are not [01:05:05] there. I’m in a little flat that hardly has anything [01:05:10] in it. It’s like [01:05:15] I have no partner in my life and I’m alone a lot [01:05:20] of the time.

Payman Langroudi: So as you said, they were all alone.

Sharon Walsh: We’re [01:05:25] all alone. And actually, you know, you learn a lot about yourself when you’re alone. [01:05:30] You learn what? And you learn what you don’t want.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Sharon Walsh: But [01:05:35] when you try and and put yourself out there again and get rejected, [01:05:40] you think oh I can’t be bothered.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:05:45] It’s been a massive [01:05:50] pleasure listening to you.

Sharon Walsh: Thanks for having me.

Payman Langroudi: Of [01:05:55] course. Um, as soon as I read your initial email, [01:06:00] whatever it was text, I thought I’d have to talk to you and see what what what’s [01:06:05] going on here? We tend to end on the same Questions. Fantasy [01:06:10] dinner party. Three guests.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. I was thinking about [01:06:15] this. Dead or.

Payman Langroudi: Alive?

Sharon Walsh: Two. [01:06:20] Two who have passed and one alive. George [01:06:25] Ivanovich Gurdjieff, who was [01:06:30] a master. He died in 1949. I [01:06:35] just read his books. He developed [01:06:40] the fourth way. Like learning in life. He had a passion. [01:06:45] He had his burning passion was who am I and what’s it all about? Read [01:06:50] his books. Been involved in the Gurdjieffian work? It’s what bonded [01:06:55] me and my husband together. So him.

Payman Langroudi: What was his name again?

Sharon Walsh: George Ivanovich [01:07:00] Gurdjieff. Mr. Gurdjieff. He was a seeker of the [01:07:05] truth. And he was born. He was Greek, Armenian, born in, [01:07:10] I think 1866, just had the most amazing life. [01:07:15]

Payman Langroudi: And the name of the book.

Sharon Walsh: He’s written several books.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:07:20] but the best one, the.

Sharon Walsh: Best one is [01:07:25] called something. I have to look it up. Payman. My short term memory isn’t good. That’s [01:07:30] a lie. Yeah. Life is only real. When I, um. [01:07:35]

Payman Langroudi: When I am, when.

Sharon Walsh: I am.

Payman Langroudi: Real.

Sharon Walsh: Life is only real [01:07:40] when I am.

Payman Langroudi: I’ll check.

Sharon Walsh: It out. Yeah. So him. And then the [01:07:45] second person, Paramahansa Yogananda, who [01:07:50] was an Indian who came to the West and brought, [01:07:55] um, was one of the first people to bring yoga to the West. And I broke my Achilles [01:08:00] about, um, 12 years ago. And [01:08:05] so I had to stop. I had to sit. And I read his autobiography. [01:08:10] It’s absolutely incredible. It’s [01:08:15] one of the most incredible books I’ve ever read. So I’d love to have had dinner with him. [01:08:20] Living. I’d like to meet the King. Charles. [01:08:25] Charles? Yeah, I think that. I [01:08:30] think that he’s a deep soul. And [01:08:35] and I admire him. I admire him. I mean, I just that family’s [01:08:40] been through such hell. I don’t care how much money you’ve got, how many houses [01:08:45] you’ve got, what status you’ve got. At the end of the day, you go to bed on your own, you get up [01:08:50] on your own. And we’re all human beings on a journey. And I just think [01:08:55] that he’s he’s been through so much in his life and, you know, [01:09:00] to stand up and reign after his mum, who reigned for 70 years. That’s tough. [01:09:05]

Payman Langroudi: Would you not want the Queen herself?

Sharon Walsh: I loved the Queen. I’d have loved to have [01:09:10] met her.

Payman Langroudi: You could throw her. Should we throw her in a fourth? Have a fourth guest?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, I’d [01:09:15] love to. I’d have loved. I mean, what a woman she was. I mean, just extraordinary. [01:09:20]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I think with the royals, you end up. [01:09:25] I mean, you must have seen Charles since he was a teenager. Yeah. So you end up watching [01:09:30] every part of their life all the way up from a teenager to cancer [01:09:35] diagnosis. Yeah. And all the bits in between. Yeah. And so you [01:09:40] do end up having a sort of different appreciation of that life than many others. Yeah. [01:09:45] It’s a funny thing. Well, I.

Sharon Walsh: Think when you start to get older and [01:09:50] you start to get on the other, you know, I mean, I’m nearly 60 now. [01:09:55] You see things in a totally different way.

Payman Langroudi: I just [01:10:00] remember, I’m not a royalist at all. I’m happy for the royal family to disappear. But [01:10:05] when the Queen died, I felt I felt something. The first time [01:10:10] I felt something for someone I didn’t know, you know. Of course. Friends, family, those [01:10:15] people. Sure. But. But someone I didn’t know at all. I just felt something there. And I [01:10:20] was thinking about. Why is that? Why am I feeling something when I don’t believe in royalty? I don’t believe [01:10:25] in, in in that system at all. And and thinking about it, I thought [01:10:30] what I said about you watch someone and often, often you’re crying [01:10:35] for yourself. I didn’t cry, but but I could have. Often you’re crying for yourself rather than that person as well, because [01:10:40] it’s also your life that when what? Charles be a 15 year old. Charles [01:10:45] be a 25 year old child? Where was I when he was there? Where was I? It’s an interesting. [01:10:50]

Sharon Walsh: Thing. Ultimately, I think we’re all connected. We’re all connected. [01:10:55] And do you.

Payman Langroudi: Think your belief in God has strengthened [01:11:00] Since you’ve been through all this?

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, massively.

Payman Langroudi: Because [01:11:05] you’ve gotten through it.

Sharon Walsh: Yeah. God is. I feel like I’ve. I [01:11:10] don’t know who or what God is. And I used to be embarrassed to talk about [01:11:15] God. I’m not anymore. Because. Because [01:11:20] ultimately, who and what created [01:11:25] all of this? I mean, you know, what am I? My greatest wish is to become [01:11:30] a nothing. Nobody. And I [01:11:35] just feel that you can break and break and [01:11:40] you can lose. Like, I have lost. Lost most everything. But there is a flame [01:11:45] inside that burns. And there is an inner guidance. And there is. [01:11:50] There’s a calling. It’s almost like a [01:11:55] calling. It’s interesting. We all talk about [01:12:00] God so much, don’t we? You know how many times a day do we say, oh God or [01:12:05] oh, Christ or and we don’t even know what we’re saying.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:12:10] blasphemy, you mean. Well, yeah. Strictly speaking, [01:12:15] yeah.

Sharon Walsh: But we say it, don’t we? So where’s it coming from?

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:12:20] in the language, right? It’s in the it’s in my my my wife’s parents always laugh at me. [01:12:25] They’re staying with us right now. I say Jesus a lot. And there they are, actual Christians. [01:12:30] And I’m not talking about Jesus again. [01:12:35]

Sharon Walsh: Yeah, it’s, um, it’s an interesting one. [01:12:40] I mean, and also, you know, I think that our language, we don’t have the words [01:12:45] in the English language to describe a lot of what [01:12:50] goes on. It’s not it’s we just don’t have the [01:12:55] words to talk about what’s in here?

Payman Langroudi: Final [01:13:00] question. Yes. On your deathbed.

Sharon Walsh: On my deathbed. [01:13:05]

Payman Langroudi: Surrounded by your loved ones. What three pieces of advice would you give [01:13:10] them?

Sharon Walsh: Never give up. [01:13:15] At some point, turn within and start facing everything [01:13:20] about yourself. Trust that everything is going to [01:13:25] be okay.

Payman Langroudi: Right now. A [01:13:30] massive pleasure. Thank you so much for coming in.

Sharon Walsh: Thanks [01:13:35] for having me.

Payman Langroudi: And for doing this in the first place. A lot of respect for [01:13:40] people who do that.

Sharon Walsh: You know, a friend texted me this morning. A dentist who. And [01:13:45] he’s really struggling. And he said to me, he [01:13:50] said, Chaz, I’m so proud of you for doing this. [01:13:55]

Payman Langroudi: Definitely. And and being so open and authentic. There [01:14:00] was a question I asked, and I asked all sorts of questions that you didn’t truly [01:14:05] answer. Look. Look for the real truth. So thank you. [01:14:10]

Sharon Walsh: Thank you.

[VOICE]: This is Dental [01:14:15] Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders [01:14:20] in dentistry. Your hosts [01:14:25] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. [01:14:30] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both [01:14:35] from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guests [01:14:40] has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, [01:14:45] think about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you [01:14:50] think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so, so much for listening.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our [01:14:55] six star rating.