Payman Langroudi: This podcast is brought to you by enlighten. Enlighten is an advanced teeth whitening system. Join [00:00:05] us for online training, where I’ll take you through everything you need to know about how to [00:00:10] assess a case quickly, how to use the system, how to talk to patients. Because when you [00:00:15] know you can deliver brilliant results, it’s so much easier to talk about it. To book your course, which takes [00:00:20] only an hour. It’s completely free. Visit enlighten online training.com. [00:00:25] Now let’s get to the pod.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The podcast [00:00:35] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:40] hosts Payman Langroudi [00:00:45] and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: And you guys are both judges on [00:00:50] awards. You’ve done.

Vinne Attariani: Awards. We’re both doing it on.

Payman Langroudi: This private dentistry.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And what awards have [00:00:55] you judged before?

Vinne Attariani: So I’ve done private dentistry. This is third year. [00:01:00] Third year. I’ve done private dentistry, and I did the dentistry awards a couple of [00:01:05] years ago as well. I’ve done this year. I was judging, um, [00:01:10] I’m trying to think now. We did best team. Best team, the [00:01:15] best team for a couple areas.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, is that how it works? You only judge one of the categories.

Vinne Attariani: You [00:01:20] get one category usually assigned to two dentists, and you’ll get one category, but then [00:01:25] certain areas of the country. So we had North and I had London. And [00:01:30] then somebody else might have best team in the other regions.

Payman Langroudi: So how does it work. How [00:01:35] do you how do you even become that judge? Do you ask or do they ask you, how does it work?

Vinne Attariani: I was invited.

Martin Attariani: Yeah. [00:01:40] I think initially you were invited. And then and then this year I, I got invited. [00:01:45] So, um. Yeah. I don’t think it’s anything you apply for, it’s you just wait [00:01:50] to be invited. And I think that’s what happened.

Vinne Attariani: Or if you keep entering too many awards [00:01:55] and you’ve won quite a few, then they sometimes make you a judge.

Payman Langroudi: Have [00:02:00] you entered them as well?

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. So our practice got, um, for Leamington. Our practice got best [00:02:05] practice, UK best patient care. Oh. We won. Um, we won best team [00:02:10] for our area as well. So that was after Covid. So it was 20, [00:02:15] 2020.

Payman Langroudi: And so when you judge these awards they what what are the kind of [00:02:20] typically what comes in. Do you get some super professional PR company [00:02:25] bits come through and then some other people not so professional or what comes what happens.

Martin Attariani: To [00:02:30] be honest, I mean there is a criteria that they have to fulfil obviously. So there’s a set criteria [00:02:35] and then you can have anything come through. You [00:02:40] got entries that are very bespoke and very professional. Um, [00:02:45] and you know, you can tell that, you know, money has been spent [00:02:50] on it or even a lot of time spent on it. And you can have just entries that are just, just [00:02:55] basically a word document.

Vinne Attariani: Like a one A4.

Martin Attariani: Page. One page. So [00:03:00] what’s the instruction scale?

Payman Langroudi: What are the instructions or the instructions to ignore the [00:03:05] quality of the production?

Martin Attariani: I think it just comes down [00:03:10] to the to the content of it really. And one of the most important things that [00:03:15] the majority of, of the entries failed at is to deliver the [00:03:20] required criteria.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re taking more.

Martin Attariani: So [00:03:25] exactly. So you’ve got a list to go through. Make sure that everybody [00:03:30] fulfilling the criteria initially.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s a.

Martin Attariani: Bunch of all of [00:03:35] a sudden. Exactly. You got 50% 60% just just out of uh yeah. [00:03:40]

Vinne Attariani: You do get some entries which are like 200 slides, you know, and it’s supposed to be a word count [00:03:45] of about somewhere. 1000 or 1500 word count is supposed to be.

Payman Langroudi: So that that excludes [00:03:50] those ones.

Vinne Attariani: The ones that are really long. Yeah. Because there is there is five sort of sets of [00:03:55] criteria. And you do. If you are not fulfilling even the basic criteria, you’re out. [00:04:00] Which is a shame because some of the entries are absolutely fabulous. But then, to be fair.

Martin Attariani: There.

Vinne Attariani: Has to.

Martin Attariani: Be. [00:04:05]

Vinne Attariani: Fair and consistent.

Martin Attariani: There is.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah, there is a grading for each of those. [00:04:10] And you you can’t go outside that really. Because I mean, to be honest, some of the best ones were the [00:04:15] ones that were literally just two sides, and they had supporting evidence for the [00:04:20] points that were sort of asked in the criteria. But they were. So it doesn’t it doesn’t [00:04:25] take, um, you know, a company to have to put your entry together for you. You can literally [00:04:30] do it even if you’re not savvy on the, on, you know, PowerPoints and computers. It’s the content [00:04:35] and it’s the, um, hitting all the criteria basically.

Martin Attariani: And actually standing [00:04:40] out.

Vinne Attariani: Standing out.

Martin Attariani: Doing.

Vinne Attariani: Something different.

Martin Attariani: Your category, you know, you want to be able that [00:04:45] they are actually contributing to, you know, something new within industry and, [00:04:50] uh, doing something unique. So yeah, then it doesn’t matter how [00:04:55] good the presentation is. Uh, as long as they manage to get that, [00:05:00] you know, message through.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So awards are a bit polarising, right? I mean, I know [00:05:05] people who hate them and I know people who love them. Let’s first dispel some myths. Right. [00:05:10] That silly myth that goes around about, uh, it’s a fix.

Vinne Attariani: It’s not a [00:05:15] fix.

Payman Langroudi: Buying the ticket, buying the table at the event.

Vinne Attariani: Because the tickets. The tickets, the. [00:05:20] We’ve decided the winners. The winners are decided. You buy your ticket.

Payman Langroudi: The tickets even start being sold. [00:05:25]

Vinne Attariani: You buy your ticket.

Martin Attariani: I was one of them myself before I got involved. Probably [00:05:30] thought.

Payman Langroudi: Conspiracy.

Martin Attariani: Pay more money and you have the bigger table. You’re gonna. You’re [00:05:35] gonna win.

Vinne Attariani: It’d be closer to the front.

Martin Attariani: And this is before I was involved in any way. Uh, [00:05:40] whereas now I can see how robust the judging is. And, yeah, it [00:05:45] doesn’t matter.

Payman Langroudi: It doesn’t make any sense from the business perspective for them to fix it. I mean, why would [00:05:50] they.

Vinne Attariani: Oh, no.

Martin Attariani: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: It just makes no sense whatsoever to fix it.

Martin Attariani: And you know, when you [00:05:55] go, there is a group of very respectable [00:06:00] professionals, really, uh, who are there spending a whole day on this? Having [00:06:05] spent probably a few nights even beforehand because we get the entries, uh, [00:06:10] ten days, two weeks before we meet up. So you already spend a lot of time going through the [00:06:15] entries, and then on that day, obviously, you got all these people turning up. So, you [00:06:20] know, people are not going to turn up if something’s fixed, obviously, uh, and put their names to it. [00:06:25]

Payman Langroudi: So let’s put that to one side. Let’s put that to one side. But what about the thing that people say [00:06:30] about the downside of the awards. Do you do you relate to that at all or. No. [00:06:35] You know, should we should we put them out? What would people think about.

Vinne Attariani: What do people.

Payman Langroudi: Think? Well, I mean, there’s there’s one [00:06:40] one aspect that says, you know, if I’m a really great dentist, but I’m [00:06:45] not applying even to be in these awards, the guy down the road applies with a PR company, [00:06:50] and suddenly the guy down the road is called Best Practice London and [00:06:55] yeah. And I’m not right. And that and that misleads the public [00:07:00] is one way of looking at it.

Martin Attariani: You know, that’s kind of that’s kind of life. Look at the bigger shows. [00:07:05] Look at Britain’s Got Talent. Obviously, you know, the hero does [00:07:10] I don’t know the guy who does a magic show on that, uh, program. Uh, [00:07:15] doesn’t mean that he is actually going to be the best magician in the country.

Vinne Attariani: He just. [00:07:20]

Martin Attariani: Put himself.

Payman Langroudi: But that’s the name of the award. That’s that’s the thing. I mean, I can look, I [00:07:25] didn’t really get it until someone turned around to me and said, how would you feel if one of your whitening [00:07:30] competitors was called Best Whitening System in Britain? Yeah. Just because they’d applied. [00:07:35] Yeah. And you hadn’t. And I kind of understood it like anybody.

Martin Attariani: Anything else? I mean everybody can [00:07:40] apply. So, you know, it’s down to you whether you want to do that or not. Um, but on the [00:07:45] flip side of it, you do have practices who actually go out of their way. They start to [00:07:50] improve themselves.

Vinne Attariani: They do some amazing improvements. You know that you did best. [00:07:55]

Martin Attariani: I was going to say improving the most improved practice. And to be honest, I was looking at [00:08:00] how people actually spend money and time to improve their practices. [00:08:05] And deep down I’m thinking, you know what? This is very good for our patients because we are [00:08:10] increasing the standard of dentistry in the UK. So who benefits from [00:08:15] this? Patients, obviously. And I’m all for, for that. Uh, so [00:08:20] you know, I think obviously you can have a look at it from both sides. Uh, [00:08:25] but in reality I think is, is is very good. It does actually, uh, [00:08:30] you know, uh, encourage people to make changes within their practices, [00:08:35] but then obviously it’s going to come down to individual, um, businesses whether [00:08:40] they want to enter or not.

Vinne Attariani: I think the newer wards, like now they have they have best clinical work as well. Right? [00:08:45] Which is I think.

Payman Langroudi: That one’s a bit different.

Vinne Attariani: It’s a bit different. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s Number.

Vinne Attariani: One. That one’s [00:08:50] a bit different. So I think that obviously. Yeah. We’re not assessing. We get photos of the clinical work [00:08:55] right. So obviously dentists are presenting their standards. They go we’ve got x rays and photographs [00:09:00] and testimonials. But yeah you are going by what’s presented in front of you. You’re not [00:09:05] physically in the practice. Um, so I mean, I think the best I [00:09:10] mean, when we won the awards, the main thing, right, is such a morale booster for your for your business [00:09:15] and your practice. It wasn’t I’m not going to say that. Oh, we got loads of new patients from it. No. So [00:09:20] but no I don’t think.

Payman Langroudi: It’s hard to measure isn’t.

Vinne Attariani: It. It’s hard it’s hard to measure that. But I think for [00:09:25] a team because my team is about 35 people. Our Leamington practice 35. Right. And you think about [00:09:30] how much hard work you put in. You know, everyone is working hard and that’s probably every dental practice. [00:09:35] We as a profession go above and beyond. I think compared to any other profession we [00:09:40] really take to heart, whether our patients are happy, our staff are happy, our business is doing [00:09:45] well. And this is just a little it’s a boost, isn’t it? Is a boost to your morale. Your staff [00:09:50] get energised by oh yeah, we’re doing something great and it just perks up your, [00:09:55] you know, and.

Payman Langroudi: I bet you learn a lot from as judges when you look, look at these applications. [00:10:00] You must get a few good ideas out of them.

Vinne Attariani: But you know, one thing I did, I really noted this [00:10:05] well, more so this year, I think, is that I was just thinking, wow, the standard of everyone’s [00:10:10] practices, like we are all up there. It was very difficult [00:10:15] to give these.

Payman Langroudi: When you think of something, you learned an idea that someone else had put [00:10:20] in place.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah for sure.

Payman Langroudi: What kind of.

Martin Attariani: Things? We’re sitting in a in a good position. They’re going through all this and [00:10:25] thinking, wow, this is really good.

Payman Langroudi: I’m going to put that in place.

Martin Attariani: In my.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah. Like what.

Martin Attariani: I think. Uh, [00:10:30] so for example, um, we’ve had um, it was this practice who’ve [00:10:35] been, um, doing uh, quite a lot of they’ve changed the whole [00:10:40] journey for the patient and how the patient comes through the door, how they are [00:10:45] mats from from one they meet uh, a non [00:10:50] dental professional initially uh, and then just a very easily [00:10:55] eased into the whole process and everything, which I thought was it was really good. So it doesn’t have [00:11:00] to be or you booked in with a dentist and you’re just going to go see the dentist straight away. So, [00:11:05] um, you know, for them to be able to see, uh, and interact with the entire team [00:11:10] first initially, um, I think that’s that’s pretty good. Uh, having having [00:11:15] a separate reception area that deals with phone calls. [00:11:20] So you’re not talking in front of patients sitting in the waiting [00:11:25] room. I think that was amazing way of doing it. And and to be honest, that doesn’t [00:11:30] need to be on site. Even you can have staff working from home, but taking [00:11:35] all your calls, which frees up a lot of space for the reception staff as well, [00:11:40] dealing with people face to face. I think that was a very good idea [00:11:45] for any practice really.

Payman Langroudi: There is room for improvement.

[EVERYONE]: And there’s, you know.

Vinne Attariani: There’s lots of things that you see. [00:11:50] I really liked them. Um, there was one practice. They each patient gets an allocated [00:11:55] individual on the patient services team or like reception we call it patient services contact [00:12:00] person. So they’re speaking to the same individual all the time. And you know what.

Payman Langroudi: That is nice. [00:12:05]

Vinne Attariani: That was nice. Like on your file the patient has like this is a dedicated person. So all their questions [00:12:10] all their queries.

Payman Langroudi: A bit like us. We’ve got account managers.

Vinne Attariani: It was really nice. I thought do you know what then you don’t have a he [00:12:15] said she said or something gets missed or someone doesn’t translate the you know, the communication, the conversation [00:12:20] correctly. I thought that’s something that I took away. I thought that definitely want to introduce that.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I [00:12:25] uh, have visited maybe, I don’t know, 500, 1000 dental practices. [00:12:30] Right. I must have by now. And that initial greeting. And [00:12:35] sometimes it’s awful. Yeah. Not even not. I [00:12:40] don’t blame the individual. Even. Yeah. Because I think we’re undermanned in dental practices in general. Yeah, [00:12:45] compared to the size of business that we are compared to that, the number [00:12:50] of people working, um, outside of the clinic clinical setting to [00:12:55] me is a bit low. I mean, sometimes I turn up to a practice and no one even acknowledges me for [00:13:00] for 6 or 7 or eight minutes. Yeah. Now, normally they’re busy. [00:13:05] Yeah. Sometimes no one even looks up from their computer. Busy? Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: Like private. [00:13:10]

Vinne Attariani: Practices.

Payman Langroudi: It could.

[EVERYONE]: Be both. Both? Really?

Payman Langroudi: By the way, the opposite to the opposite [00:13:15] to some practices. I could think of a few. Yeah. That. That someone gets up, opens the door. Doctor [00:13:20] Langroudi, we’ve been expecting you.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, each one of our patients is coming on an [00:13:25] appointment. We know the name of that patient. Yeah. You know, not many businesses have that. Yeah. It’s [00:13:30] the shops and things don’t have that. And then I compare that to when I take my BMW for service. Yeah. [00:13:35] It’s a garage, man. It’s a car garage. But they’ve got the place [00:13:40] I take my car to. They’ve figured it out, man. First of all, my car comes into this super [00:13:45] like. The garage is. So you eat your breakfast off the floor of how beautifully shiny [00:13:50] and clean the garage is. Yeah. And then someone opens the door. Doctor Langroudi, we’ve [00:13:55] been expecting you. We know how that works, right? He’s got my number plate. Yeah, yeah. Take me up. Lovely [00:14:00] coffee. Yeah, it’s a garage. Yeah, yeah, it’s just like you say. Standards in [00:14:05] general are going up, and we need to. As practices.

Martin Attariani: That is crucial. I mean, I always say to my staff, you [00:14:10] are the, the the face of the business. You are the first people that [00:14:15] that patient’s going to to see.

Payman Langroudi: First and last.

[EVERYONE]: Right. It’s super important.

Martin Attariani: It’s extremely [00:14:20] important that, you know, the patient feels welcome as soon as they open the [00:14:25] door and see you guys. That’s more important than seeing me later even, because [00:14:30] that first impression stays with them. With the patient. So, um, I think that [00:14:35] is, you know, something that any practice should, should embrace. Really.

Vinne Attariani: And [00:14:40] again, that’s what makes you different. Right? Because it is it is a competitive business [00:14:45] in some places, right? I mean, practices, I’m sure like in London, for example, [00:14:50] there’s a lot of competition from what I hear. Well, compared to where I am, it’s it’s not [00:14:55] as bad as here. So you having an award or you doing something different or you’re doing some sort [00:15:00] of eco friendly thing or. I don’t know, you do blogs or you do, or you read something [00:15:05] to make you say you’re doing something. You almost have to be doing something a little bit different to [00:15:10] attract the patients, because again, in the day is a we are in healthcare, [00:15:15] but we are a business as well, right?

[EVERYONE]: So and you have to feed your.

Payman Langroudi: Competitive [00:15:20] doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to pick your practice over yours. It’s not necessarily that it’s the [00:15:25] number of people I tell to come and see you. Yeah, the number of word of mouth. I mean. So if you’re not doing [00:15:30] any of this stuff, you might get a one point for word of mouth. If you’re doing all this stuff, maybe you [00:15:35] get a three point for word of mouth and that grows businesses, right?

Vinne Attariani: Word of mouth is is so important. [00:15:40] We do no advertising whatsoever.

[EVERYONE]: I was going to say, I mean.

Martin Attariani: We’re talking about the benefits of [00:15:45] entering awards and everything, but I think end of the day, even if you got six awards [00:15:50] sitting on your, on, on, on, on your windows screen, you know, it’s still going to come down to [00:15:55] your people, your, your service, your you know how good you are with your patients. [00:16:00] I don’t think people are going to choose you only because you won awards. You know, I [00:16:05] know of of corporates who’ve won lots of awards. But, you know, they got empty, um, [00:16:10] practices, um, because, you know, they’re not run efficiently [00:16:15] or people don’t get that personal touch with them.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:20] Agreed.

Vinne Attariani: Could you could tell from some of the awards there was some that were really basic, but do you know what they felt so warming [00:16:25] like when you read and saw how they because mine was best team and the things that they were [00:16:30] doing for their team, how the principal was like literally going above and beyond the most basic [00:16:35] entry I found like, wow, I want to work there. That’s how I felt when I was judging [00:16:40] it. It’s like I want to be working at that practice.

[EVERYONE]: You must.

Vinne Attariani: Have been.

[EVERYONE]: Approached.

Payman Langroudi: By companies who were willing to [00:16:45] sell you an award, though. Has that happened to you? It happens to us all the time.

Vinne Attariani: Um.

[EVERYONE]: No. [00:16:50]

Payman Langroudi: You pay £499 and you get called.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, I’ve had local, um, [00:16:55] organisations do that. Never, never, never, never entered [00:17:00] into any of that, to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: You know what I mean? In a way that also sort of marks, [00:17:05] you know, we’re talking about is it a fix and all of that. You just because there are many awards [00:17:10] you can just purchase. You can just literally purchase a nice, nice Crystal Award. Yeah. Um, [00:17:15] and and you know, I, I don’t I don’t like to be the one to say, oh, I hate awards [00:17:20] because I don’t I think it’s a fun night out and people.

[EVERYONE]: And then it brings.

Vinne Attariani: People together doesn’t it? The [00:17:25] people who like to socialise.

[EVERYONE]: Like 12, 1300 people. How do you feel?

Payman Langroudi: How do you feel about [00:17:30] the top 50? Fmc?

Martin Attariani: Well, Vinnie.

[EVERYONE]: Was how do you feel about it? Were [00:17:35] you on 50 for a few years? She was.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, she.

[EVERYONE]: Was a few years.

Vinne Attariani: Not anymore. Now.

[EVERYONE]: Okay.

Vinne Attariani: 29 [00:17:40] 2020 and 21, I think.

Payman Langroudi: Was that peak Vinnie. [00:17:45]

Vinne Attariani: Peak peak peak Vinnie is kind of like, you know, mull down [00:17:50] a bit, but it’s I think I was saying this to you previously as well. I think [00:17:55] people just know that I’m there and I feel like if my position, whatever it might be, [00:18:00] is probably more like mentoring or somebody wanting advice or reaching out to someone, [00:18:05] um, maybe because I’m a female or I’ve done lots in my career [00:18:10] that is not just dentistry focussed. I think people are quite interested in that. [00:18:15] So they they do. I do get asked quite a lot, you know, like on messages and um, [00:18:20] people reaching out like, oh, how did you do this? How did you manage this? Um, you know, I had my kids [00:18:25] at university, so everyone kind of gets really wowed. Like how I think it’s just I see myself more like [00:18:30] a support system for people who want it. And I’m quite happy to talk and give [00:18:35] that support and advice, and I think that’s probably what more people see of me. And then obviously we [00:18:40] used to do a lot of like courses. We used to do some lecturing together. I was doing a lot more a [00:18:45] few years ago.

[EVERYONE]: It used.

Martin Attariani: To be very active.

[EVERYONE]: Back in 2019, 2020. I’m kind of like.

Martin Attariani: Trying to do [00:18:50] well. The amount of webinars we did.

[EVERYONE]: During.

Martin Attariani: Covid and everything, try to contribute as [00:18:55] much as we can really to to the community.

Payman Langroudi: What do you think of top 50?

Martin Attariani: Uh, [00:19:00] to be honest, I don’t know who picks the, um, [00:19:05] top 50 people.

[EVERYONE]: Now.

Payman Langroudi: Fmc picks.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, but I don’t know the the judging [00:19:10] system behind that.

[EVERYONE]: They just.

Martin Attariani: Exactly. So so I’m, I’m, [00:19:15] um, I don’t know if I like the idea, and I don’t know how the selection [00:19:20] criteria is. I mean, compared to the, the, um, well, compared [00:19:25] to, to the judging that we.

[EVERYONE]: Do now, I don’t think.

Vinne Attariani: I’m top 50. I don’t think.

[EVERYONE]: I’m top criteria [00:19:30] and there’s no judging.

Martin Attariani: Panel behind and everything. But I don’t know how top 50 is, is just people just [00:19:35] selecting which obviously I mean you can see it. It’s it’s a selection of people [00:19:40] who are, you know, doing a lot within dentistry and, and make contributions. [00:19:45]

[EVERYONE]: Especially people who are influential in a.

Martin Attariani: Lot of people who do contribute a lot. [00:19:50] And they’ve never been in that list either. So, you know, you see the same people [00:19:55] coming back over and over again.

Payman Langroudi: I was talking I was talking to the guys from FMC, and they were saying that the most difficult [00:20:00] bit of that, that is people who were in it who aren’t in it anymore.

Vinne Attariani: I don’t mind [00:20:05] because.

[EVERYONE]: I.

Vinne Attariani: Think there’s amazing people doing way above what I’ve got to [00:20:10] offer. And I was kind of shocked. I was a little bit kind of, I wouldn’t say embarrassed. I was like, okay, what? [00:20:15] I didn’t realise I was contributing that much because you, you almost [00:20:20] just get used to what you’re doing because you enjoy what you’re doing, right. So you don’t see anything special in it. But [00:20:25] maybe it’s just nice that someone’s acknowledged you wherever you are doing it, providing it’s it’s [00:20:30] appreciated. So from that point of view, I thought, that’s quite nice. But no, [00:20:35] I mean, there’s there’s amazing dentists out there that.

[EVERYONE]: I’m sure.

Martin Attariani: That that, [00:20:40] um, comes from from the dental community. Yeah, I think. [00:20:45]

[EVERYONE]: I.

Vinne Attariani: Think that’s how it was.

[EVERYONE]: Wasn’t it.

Payman Langroudi: Was it was the there was a voting, uh, thing in it, but people.

[EVERYONE]: Were.

Vinne Attariani: Mine. [00:20:50]

[EVERYONE]: Was voted.

Payman Langroudi: People were getting votes coming in from all.

[EVERYONE]: Over the world.

Martin Attariani: Friends and everything. Yeah, [00:20:55] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about your Kilimanjaro expedition. How [00:21:00] did where did it where did the idea come from?

Martin Attariani: So the idea came from my amazing wife.

[EVERYONE]: Really? [00:21:05]

Martin Attariani: So, um.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah. Are you a.

Payman Langroudi: Are you a Trekker in general?

Vinne Attariani: I just [00:21:10] like to. I like to.

[EVERYONE]: Do stuff very sporty. I do like to.

Vinne Attariani: Be kind of. Okay, what can [00:21:15] I do next? I think I was sitting there one day. This was 2016.

[EVERYONE]: 2016. [00:21:20]

Vinne Attariani: 2016. I thought, I want to do something. I want to do something just, you know, crazy, like, I, [00:21:25] I didn’t hike before then. I never I had no idea about it. I was like, I just, you know, [00:21:30] looking at what can I do? What can I also want to do something for charity. So I want to do something for charity, right? [00:21:35] I think we looked at the bridge to aid. Yeah. Um, charity. And [00:21:40] kind of looking through there and I thought, oh, this looks great. This looks fun. Mountain, you know, [00:21:45] go up it, earn some money.

[EVERYONE]: Challenge as well.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah, but I probably didn’t have no idea of [00:21:50] what this was going to entail, I’ll be honest. Okay. So I booked it. I was like, right, we’re going to Kilimanjaro. [00:21:55] He’s like Kilimanjaro, like, yeah, I booked us on. We’re going to go in September 2016. And then for some [00:22:00] reason we couldn’t go. Something came up and it got pushed to the following year, which actually [00:22:05] was great because our team was amazing. The people we went up with. So they were just a collection of [00:22:10] it.

Payman Langroudi: Was anyone.

[EVERYONE]: There.

Vinne Attariani: Was no dentists, no, no dentists.

[EVERYONE]: No one.

Martin Attariani: Dentists, but everybody were [00:22:15] doing, uh, for.

[EVERYONE]: Charity as well.

Martin Attariani: So it was all different, uh, from different, um, [00:22:20] walk of life.

Payman Langroudi: And then how hard was it?

Vinne Attariani: It was I found. [00:22:25]

[EVERYONE]: It.

Vinne Attariani: How.

[EVERYONE]: It was hard.

Martin Attariani: Um, it was, I [00:22:30] would.

[EVERYONE]: Say exactly.

Vinne Attariani: The same route we.

[EVERYONE]: Took.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, physically it probably [00:22:35] wasn’t as challenging as as mentally. Oh, the mental challenge. I think [00:22:40] it was. For me at least, it was more. It wasn’t like, you know. [00:22:45]

[EVERYONE]: It.

Vinne Attariani: Wasn’t physical.

Martin Attariani: Steep hiking as.

[EVERYONE]: Such.

Martin Attariani: You know, like.

[EVERYONE]: What.

Payman Langroudi: Was [00:22:50] the mental challenge?

Martin Attariani: Um, so initially [00:22:55] you start off and you’re all very energetic and excited about this, but, you know.

[EVERYONE]: How long [00:23:00] does it take? So, um.

Martin Attariani: Five days to get to.

[EVERYONE]: The summit?

Martin Attariani: Yeah. When you [00:23:05] start to get to the, uh, into the camping, uh, situation [00:23:10] and.

[EVERYONE]: There’s no toilets.

Martin Attariani: You start.

[EVERYONE]: There’s no toilets, there’s no toilets.

Martin Attariani: There’s no showers. [00:23:15] And then we start to pass, um, maybe 2500, [00:23:20] 3000, 3000m. Uh, the oxygen level obviously [00:23:25] starts to play tricks on you. And then that’s when you start to feel of of of everything. [00:23:30] Um, and, um, I found that more mentally challenging [00:23:35] than physically because, I mean, every day we were trekking for maybe 6 or [00:23:40] 8 hours, but, you know, it was fun. We had an amazing group. So we were [00:23:45] like singing, chatting, helping each other up. So it was [00:23:50] it was actually we really enjoyed it. But, you know, come night time when you’re sleeping and. [00:23:55]

[EVERYONE]: You’re.

Vinne Attariani: Like minus ten, you know, at night when you’re.

[EVERYONE]: Sleeping.

Vinne Attariani: You slept with your like [00:24:00] literally everything on.

[EVERYONE]: Because it was that.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. Your down jackets, all your gear in [00:24:05] a sleeping bag, gloves on, hat on as well.

[EVERYONE]: So it’s, it’s.

Martin Attariani: Cold.

[EVERYONE]: And [00:24:10] then.

Martin Attariani: You’re not.

[EVERYONE]: Showering. You’re not showering the toilet facilities.

Martin Attariani: All that [00:24:15] mentally drains.

[EVERYONE]: You, really, doesn’t it?

Martin Attariani: So, um.

Vinne Attariani: The altitude. [00:24:20]

[EVERYONE]: And the.

Vinne Attariani: Altitude.

[EVERYONE]: Really got the higher you.

Martin Attariani: Go. Altitude is, is very difficult. [00:24:25]

[EVERYONE]: To.

Martin Attariani: Deal with. And for me was very bad after 4000m. Uh. [00:24:30] Vinny started to have headaches. I had headache, but yours was.

[EVERYONE]: Was [00:24:35] both headache.

Martin Attariani: And nausea and everything.

Payman Langroudi: And along the way, are you seeing just [00:24:40] amazing views?

Vinne Attariani: There’s so much to see. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The. It keeps changing [00:24:45] the higher up you go. So, like, all the the nature, the trees, the type of animals that [00:24:50] you.

[EVERYONE]: Saw, you start from.

Martin Attariani: From down bottom where you’re in the jungle and it’s 20, 30 degrees [00:24:55] of heat enjoying it. And then as you go up it’s just getting colder. Colder. [00:25:00] But the vegetation completely changes as well. You see trees and plants [00:25:05] that you would never.

[EVERYONE]: See.

Vinne Attariani: Down.

[EVERYONE]: Here.

Martin Attariani: Down below. Down, down. Uh, [00:25:10] normal altitude once. Especially once you pass 3000, 3500. [00:25:15] These plants only grow at that altitude. So. And [00:25:20] then. And then after the third day, was.

[EVERYONE]: It third or fourth?

Martin Attariani: You walking above [00:25:25] the clouds?

[EVERYONE]: Oh, that’s So surreal. The clouds are below you. You’re like them, right? [00:25:30] Cloud completely.

Vinne Attariani: Above you.

[EVERYONE]: Underneath you.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve experienced [00:25:35] that in skiing and stuff.

[EVERYONE]: Oh. It’s beautiful.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah, but it’s quiet. Okay. Your phones. [00:25:40] There’s no reception. So we were, um.

[EVERYONE]: No Wi-Fi.

Vinne Attariani: Can’t connect with anybody. Okay. So that was a little [00:25:45] bit strange, because with our kids, we’re, you know, we’re calling texting all day long. So for five, [00:25:50] five, six days, we.

[EVERYONE]: Didn’t we.

Vinne Attariani: Out of reach.

[EVERYONE]: Nothing. We didn’t know any news about [00:25:55] the world.

Payman Langroudi: Any hairy moments like danger moments.

Vinne Attariani: Well, they [00:26:00] wanted to send me down. I think I had.

[EVERYONE]: The.

Vinne Attariani: Altitude. It was really bad. They [00:26:05] were almost going.

[EVERYONE]: To force me to go down.

Martin Attariani: Wasn’t.

[EVERYONE]: It? So the very last.

Martin Attariani: Summit night, the last night, which was [00:26:10] probably the most challenging, physically.

[EVERYONE]: Challenging.

Vinne Attariani: Physically challenging, I was going.

[EVERYONE]: To say.

Martin Attariani: Is, is [00:26:15] the summit nights where, uh, you get back to camp around 5 or 6, you got [00:26:20] a few hours to sleep, and then you leave the last camp at 12 at night and [00:26:25] it’s pitch black and it’s minus ten degrees outside. [00:26:30]

Vinne Attariani: Are we cold?

[EVERYONE]: I think.

Martin Attariani: Frozen, maybe.

[EVERYONE]: More.

Martin Attariani: You’re freezing, you’re tired, [00:26:35] and it’s pitch black. You only got torches.

[EVERYONE]: And it’s completely.

Vinne Attariani: Uphill.

[EVERYONE]: Very steep. [00:26:40]

Vinne Attariani: Bit steep. Yeah.

Martin Attariani: And that was mentally and physically challenging. [00:26:45] But then you were just completely.

Vinne Attariani: I completely went I had full on, [00:26:50] um, altitude sickness.

[EVERYONE]: Altitude like textbook altitude sickness.

Vinne Attariani: They probably should have brought [00:26:55] me down, I was gone.

Martin Attariani: We managed to bear. We barely managed to.

[EVERYONE]: Get her, barely [00:27:00] got.

Martin Attariani: To the summit. And I was getting stressed out because I had planned to, [00:27:05] uh, propose to to.

[EVERYONE]: Vinny.

Martin Attariani: At this summit. So that was the. [00:27:10]

[EVERYONE]: Highlight of my trip. So you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Like, keep going.

[EVERYONE]: Keep going. And that’s the only.

Vinne Attariani: Reason they let me go. [00:27:15]

[EVERYONE]: To the top.

Martin Attariani: I already told the guide that, look, I’ve got this plan because [00:27:20] he said.

[EVERYONE]: She needs to go down.

Martin Attariani: Might not be. Well wasn’t my wife at the time, but [00:27:25] she said maybe Vinny might not be able to make it. I said, no, no, no, she has to make it. I’ve got a ring. [00:27:30] I’ve got five days I’ve been trying to hide this ring.

[EVERYONE]: You know, I’ve been moving it from.

Martin Attariani: From, [00:27:35] you know, one part of the back because we had two duffel bags. [00:27:40]

[EVERYONE]: And obviously on the woman. So I’m organising all over my 24 seven.

Martin Attariani: I’m trying to hide this, [00:27:45] this ring that was more challenging than.

[EVERYONE]: Than, you know, I [00:27:50] can.

Martin Attariani: Get manjaro. So I said, no, no, this has to happen.

Payman Langroudi: Is he a romantic? [00:27:55]

Vinne Attariani: Yes.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah, yeah he is.

Payman Langroudi: Does he pull lots of romantic stunts? [00:28:00]

Vinne Attariani: He’s done a lot of lot.

[EVERYONE]: Of lot of things. Wow.

Vinne Attariani: Always, constantly. [00:28:05] Always surprises me.

Payman Langroudi: So then were you surprised?

Vinne Attariani: I was shocked. I did not [00:28:10] expect that at all. We got to the top of top six.

[EVERYONE]: 5895m. [00:28:15]

Payman Langroudi: No, but how shocked were you? Like. Like did you.

[EVERYONE]: Not?

Vinne Attariani: Did you not? I was. [00:28:20]

Payman Langroudi: No. No. But did you not expect him to be proposing to you at all?

Vinne Attariani: No, because I.

Payman Langroudi: Think not on [00:28:25] this mountain.

Vinne Attariani: I don’t I didn’t expect because we both had this discussion probably a little [00:28:30] while ago. Anyways, like I said, I don’t want to get married again. Ever. You know, I just that’s it. I’m kind [00:28:35] of done with that whole thing. And you probably also felt the same. [00:28:40] So I was I did not expect it at all. I was completely shocked.

Martin Attariani: I picked [00:28:45] the perfect time because she was completely out of it.

[EVERYONE]: She probably doesn’t even remember my [00:28:50] head.

Martin Attariani: So. And I got a yes. And that was it. Like, you know, I got photos. I got the video. [00:28:55] That’s it. Excellent.

Vinne Attariani: It was all a blur, really. And then.

[EVERYONE]: Within seconds, they. [00:29:00]

Vinne Attariani: They carried me.

[EVERYONE]: Down really.

Martin Attariani: Quickly.

[EVERYONE]: How much.

Payman Langroudi: Money did you raise.

Vinne Attariani: Or. All together? [00:29:05]

Martin Attariani: I raised 5895, which is the height of Kilimanjaro. [00:29:10]

[EVERYONE]: Oh.

Martin Attariani: And you raised about 5 or 6000?

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: I was. [00:29:15]

Vinne Attariani: About. It was about 50,000 altogether.

Martin Attariani: The ten of us, we raised £55,000 [00:29:20] for various different charities. So, [00:29:25] you know, it was very rewarding.

[EVERYONE]: It was.

Vinne Attariani: Oh, yeah. It’s nice. And it gives a card every year, which is really [00:29:30] sweet. The bridge. And then we still meet up with our group. We still have get togethers once a year, [00:29:35] all of us. Yeah. So all the good friends now. Friends for life. Really?

[EVERYONE]: But it was it.

Martin Attariani: Was [00:29:40] an amazing experience. I mean, we really recommend.

[EVERYONE]: It to.

Vinne Attariani: 100%.

Martin Attariani: To anyone because. [00:29:45]

[EVERYONE]: It’s.

Payman Langroudi: So what about the.

Martin Attariani: Cost of so the cost of it you pay yourself obviously. [00:29:50]

Payman Langroudi: You paid that yourself and then.

[EVERYONE]: The.

Payman Langroudi: Sponsorship you give to the charity.

[EVERYONE]: Yes.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. So we paid ourselves. [00:29:55] Right. But obviously if that doesn’t work for some people you can use.

[EVERYONE]: Some sponsorship.

Vinne Attariani: Money. [00:30:00]

[EVERYONE]: Yeah you can.

Vinne Attariani: Because for everybody it’s not it’s not easy for everyone right. But I think even just getting [00:30:05] support so you can do something like that, I mean I’ve got some of my staff have gone to Cambodia and they’ve [00:30:10] done all sorts of like charity work out there, but they’ve used their sponsorship to help fund it, otherwise it wouldn’t be in a position [00:30:15] to do it. But they’ve come back like, you know, transformed, eyes opened and seeing [00:30:20] things that they’ve never seen, helping people that you know that need the help. So it’s [00:30:25] really rewarding.

Payman Langroudi: Have you heard of effective altruism? Effective altruism? [00:30:30]

[EVERYONE]: No.

Payman Langroudi: No. It’s a bit of a strange. It’s a bit of an interesting concept. Concept? [00:30:35] The concept is like, what’s the goal of let’s let’s say you decide [00:30:40] to go to Cambodia and treat some teeth. Yeah. Yeah. What’s the goal of that? What is the goal of [00:30:45] it? To alleviate pain.

Vinne Attariani: To alleviate pain.

[EVERYONE]: To give us. To give. [00:30:50]

Vinne Attariani: Us. Yeah. To help.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah. Make a.

Martin Attariani: Contribution.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. Um. It’s to give [00:30:55] help, make change. Give something that you. They can’t reach themselves.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:31:00] effective altruism says if that’s the goal.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The best way you can achieve that goal [00:31:05] of getting the maximum number of people out of pain is by staying in Leamington, earning loads [00:31:10] of money and paying people to go out there and and and do it. [00:31:15] And so, you know, so so so well. Well it’s not, it’s not that cool because you [00:31:20] can keep on taking it on and on and on, and the final end game will be just go [00:31:25] become a banker and earn as much money as possible and then give it all away. Right.

[EVERYONE]: I think I’d like to do it myself. [00:31:30] What you said.

Payman Langroudi: About doing it yourself.

Vinne Attariani: Doing it yourself, is.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a there’s a power [00:31:35] in that. Yeah, there’s a power in that.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And there’s a [00:31:40] grounding in that. Yeah. But but what I’m saying is, if the goal is for me [00:31:45] to get out of the world of one millimetre, uh, changes for patients, [00:31:50] cosmetic treatments and see something real. Yeah. Then you’re you’re getting that goal. [00:31:55] But if the goal is to alleviate pain over there.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. No.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a very interesting.

Vinne Attariani: Kind of weird. No, [00:32:00] it is interesting because I kind of feel like, you know, you can give to charities and give to charities, but you never really [00:32:05] fully see what happens with it. So I kind of feel like if I was doing it, yeah, it would humble me 100%. [00:32:10] It’s like going to any doing any charity work is humbling because you get to see with your eyes [00:32:15] how somebody else is living right or or appreciate what they’re going through. It makes [00:32:20] you value your life more. Or so there is that.

[EVERYONE]: Personal fulfilment. [00:32:25]

Vinne Attariani: Isn’t there? Is that element and also you’re helping as well. So I agree with what you [00:32:30] say. If you want to alleviate.

[EVERYONE]: Pain, always do both.

Vinne Attariani: Do something.

[EVERYONE]: You could you could do both. Yes.

Martin Attariani: I mean we’ve got charity set [00:32:35] up. You know we do monthly. So and I think that’s just, you know, an [00:32:40] obligation.

Payman Langroudi: Have you heard of give directly.

Martin Attariani: But.

Payman Langroudi: Give give directly. It’s [00:32:45] about not charities going out anywhere giving cash [00:32:50] directly to to people. Yeah. Yeah. And the the idea is if let’s let’s say there’s someone [00:32:55] in where, where did you say Colombia. No.

Vinne Attariani: Cambodia.

Payman Langroudi: Cambodia. Let’s say there’s a, there’s a guy in Cambodia [00:33:00] who needs help. Yeah, yeah. One way is I pay Oxfam. Oxfam [00:33:05] goes out there and helps him. Yeah. Another way is I go and myself go [00:33:10] and help out through Oxfam or whatever. It turns out if I give $500 [00:33:15] to him. Yeah. Directly. Yeah, the benefit to him is way, way, way more. [00:33:20]

Martin Attariani: Than.

Payman Langroudi: If we send a couple of doctors out who get paid by [00:33:25] Oxfam. Right. And the amount of wastage that happens. Yeah. It’s a very interesting idea.

Martin Attariani: The middlemen, [00:33:30] don’t you. And all.

[EVERYONE]: The.

Martin Attariani: Expenses. It’s just finding that contact though, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: But the idea is he [00:33:35] knows where best to spend the £500. Yeah. $500? Yeah, yeah. He’s [00:33:40] got specific needs. Right. He might need to, I don’t know, buy a generator or send his kid to [00:33:45] school or whatever it is. Whereas the charity just does a sort of a thing that they figure out that isn’t [00:33:50] doesn’t help him as much.

Martin Attariani: What would you do that? Through my family on [00:33:55] my dad’s got contacts in Iran. And then what we’d do there is that we give it directly [00:34:00] to people who we know. Yeah. Uh, are helping people directly. So, [00:34:05] um, um, we’ve got a charity who helps people who want to get married, but [00:34:10] they don’t have money to start a life together as a couple. Um, [00:34:15] but again, it’s just having that contact.

[EVERYONE]: It’s knowing someone.

Martin Attariani: That that money.

[EVERYONE]: Is. [00:34:20]

Martin Attariani: Actually go going to go to to to to the right.

Payman Langroudi: Do you ever give money to someone on [00:34:25] the street?

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do you?

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do you?

Martin Attariani: Yeah we. [00:34:30]

[EVERYONE]: Do.

Payman Langroudi: I do. Yeah, but but but there was a time where we were, [00:34:35] uh, during Covid, our hotel. Um, everyone shut all the hotels except [00:34:40] this one hotel. Yeah. And they. And then we managed to get our courses to keep going because, hey, we’re [00:34:45] training doctors and dentists. Okay. And so we ended up by the Mayfair Hotel. Yes. [00:34:50] You know it? Yeah. So we had, I think, ten of our courses, one after the other at the Mayfair [00:34:55] Hotel and at the Mayfair Hotel. Once you’ve done it ten times, you see [00:35:00] ten times the same people covering the same patches.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. [00:35:05]

Payman Langroudi: Um, yeah. And I remember, actually, I lost a lot of innocence around [00:35:10] this subject here because I was happily giving money to anyone in the street that [00:35:15] I don’t know. Maybe it was an eye contact or whatever it was. I even used to think some of these guys [00:35:20] may be just the charlatans here, but I’m happy to give to a couple of charlatans if it means [00:35:25] the others get money. But in that, in that 1010 course thing [00:35:30] I realised around the Mayfair Hotel, it’s a massive organised crime business.

Martin Attariani: They [00:35:35] put up tents and everything.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean.

[EVERYONE]: A massive.

Payman Langroudi: Organised crime business. Yeah. It’s [00:35:40] jaded me a little bit, you know, in a weird way. Um, now, now I’m giving gifts on [00:35:45] TikTok. Yeah. Giving a little dopamine rush. Giving this sort of £0.63 to some [00:35:50] poor guy sitting in a camp in Syria. Yeah. Probably many of them are taking [00:35:55] my money and, you know. Yeah. It’s like.

Vinne Attariani: A thing. It’s like any anything, there’s always going [00:36:00] to be someone who abuses the system.

[EVERYONE]: We had.

Martin Attariani: That in Turkey, didn’t we, when we were in Turkey last year.

Payman Langroudi: Together. [00:36:05]

[EVERYONE]: Yeah. Where are you? What happened?

Martin Attariani: And and and, uh, I came out of, uh, our hotel, [00:36:10] and it was this, uh, lady, quite young.

[EVERYONE]: Sitting with.

Vinne Attariani: The.

[EVERYONE]: Baby.

Martin Attariani: I [00:36:15] mean, the baby was only maybe two years old, and she was going through the garbage [00:36:20] bag, the bin bag, and she was taking out.

[EVERYONE]: Breads. [00:36:25]

Martin Attariani: And bread and.

[EVERYONE]: Food.

Martin Attariani: And cleaning them, putting to one side and oh my [00:36:30] God, it broke my.

[EVERYONE]: Heart.

Martin Attariani: It broke my heart. And I came [00:36:35] up, I said to Vinnie, we have to go down and help these, this, this, [00:36:40] this. Um. Mom. And we did. We. I don’t like [00:36:45] giving money if I can give food, uh, instead. [00:36:50] So that’s what we did. We took them to a grocery shop just around the corner. And then [00:36:55] before we know it, it was another a girl and a boy who came up to [00:37:00] us as well. And they they wanted help. So we started buying groceries for them, [00:37:05] and, uh, and and, um, they after we [00:37:10] were telling the, um, one of the staff in the hotel that [00:37:15] this is, you know, it’s for us. It’s very heartbreaking to see, you know, scenes like [00:37:20] that and it’s like, oh, these these are, you know, it’s very common here. They’re all part of Mafia. [00:37:25] And, you know, I was like.

[EVERYONE]: Because.

Vinne Attariani: I got warning signs when we were in the store because she goes, [00:37:30] we’ll have that, we’ll have that, we’ll have that.

[EVERYONE]: It was literally she knew.

Vinne Attariani: And the guy in the shop, I think he knew her as [00:37:35] well. They they cleaned up the shelves. You know, there.

[EVERYONE]: Were.

Vinne Attariani: Bags.

[EVERYONE]: Of.

Vinne Attariani: Food.

Payman Langroudi: I read an article [00:37:40] when a lady was walking past someone with a baby. Yeah. Every day [00:37:45] as she was going to work. And, um, she said every day for 200 days in [00:37:50] a row, the baby was asleep, and she thought to herself, well, how can that be? How can the baby always [00:37:55] be asleep? Right? Started looking into it. And the it turns out [00:38:00] the baby isn’t the baby of the the beggar and the baby’s drugged to [00:38:05] sleep. You know, so they can just hold it. Hold it there. And. But what I’m saying, [00:38:10] it’s such a shame.

[EVERYONE]: It breaks.

Martin Attariani: Your heart.

[EVERYONE]: Doesn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: But no. It’s such a shame that it jades you from [00:38:15] giving.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know, because now. Now, every time I’m thinking of giving to someone, I’m thinking. [00:38:20] Oh, God. Is. Is that money? Is it? Yeah. Yeah.

Martin Attariani: Is it genuine or not?

Payman Langroudi: Is it [00:38:25] genuine or not? Exactly.

[EVERYONE]: Absolutely.

Vinne Attariani: We were in the car earlier today, and there was a chap by the lights, and I put the [00:38:30] window up because we just had an incident like about a month ago, right in London. And I’m [00:38:35] like super like, just keep the windows closed. I’m not letting don’t let anyone approach us. Don’t [00:38:40] go to anyone. Don’t.

[EVERYONE]: And that could have.

Martin Attariani: Been a genuine.

[EVERYONE]: Person. But it was a genuine person doesn’t it.

Vinne Attariani: Doesn’t [00:38:45] get help because obviously what we’ve had happened to us before. I think having a [00:38:50] charity just makes you feel safer because you feel there’s like a middle man. But then even then, you just you don’t know where your money’s [00:38:55] going or how it’s being distributed. Right? That’s why I feel like if I go, I would like to go [00:39:00] somewhere to help, because I feel like that gives you a bit of a sense of, you know, of just, again, [00:39:05] humbling and helping others. And also, you get to see that you’re actually doing something physically [00:39:10] right. And if you want to give money, you’re giving it to the places where you.

[EVERYONE]: I mean, the intention.

Martin Attariani: Has.

[EVERYONE]: To be the [00:39:15] end of the day.

Martin Attariani: The intention is good. And then.

[EVERYONE]: I think as a dentist.

Payman Langroudi: You can always do that with your own [00:39:20] patients as well, right? If there’s a patient who genuinely can’t afford something.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah, well I’ve done that before. [00:39:25]

[EVERYONE]: You know what?

Martin Attariani: We’ve done that many times.

Vinne Attariani: Quite a.

[EVERYONE]: Few times.

Vinne Attariani: We’re even, like considering in our practice, [00:39:30] like we’re having, like, discussions of arranging a day where anybody can come for [00:39:35] healthcare.

[EVERYONE]: Like.

Vinne Attariani: So. So just, you know, if you can’t find dentists, you got pain. Just come see us. [00:39:40] And that’s something that we’re organising at both the practices.

[EVERYONE]: I think as a profession I [00:39:45] think yeah we are.

Payman Langroudi: It’s incumbent.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, yeah.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah I think you can any, any, any [00:39:50] dental practice can afford.

[EVERYONE]: To open one.

Vinne Attariani: One day I don’t.

[EVERYONE]: Know.

Vinne Attariani: Every six months or something [00:39:55] or even, even if you did it once a year and just literally said, look, anybody come if you [00:40:00] need help and you haven’t got dentists not registered, we’ll help you out and just get people out of pain, you [00:40:05] know, just there and then I think that’s huge. You know, is this about giving [00:40:10] back, isn’t it?

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We went out for dinner once, and [00:40:15] the after dinner entertainment was Martin doing [00:40:20] magic tricks.

[EVERYONE]: Oh.

Payman Langroudi: And not just silly [00:40:25] magic tricks. Like super impressive crazy magic tricks and crazy. [00:40:30] Like, I remember just my jaw dropping. How the hell did he do that? When did [00:40:35] that start? When did this magic dentist stuff start? Is it something from your childhood? [00:40:40]

Martin Attariani: It probably started. I mean, I’ve always been very inquisitive type of person. [00:40:45] I always wanted to know.

[EVERYONE]: How.

Payman Langroudi: People do.

[EVERYONE]: Things.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, how things are made. [00:40:50] And, you know, uh, probably since I was about 13 or [00:40:55] 14, I was just very intrigued by magic, the unknown and, [00:41:00] uh, and, uh, I always wanted to know how things work and, you know, how [00:41:05] things become magic. So it probably started when I was 14 and I [00:41:10] had that community. There was a magician, uh, I [00:41:15] started to pester this guy, bless him. Still in touch with him, but I started to pester him. [00:41:20] No, you have to teach me and teach me. This is in Sweden. Yeah. And, uh, it started [00:41:25] with him. Uh, he started to to teach me, uh, you know, magic tricks [00:41:30] and, um, uh, uh, start to get into [00:41:35] it more and more and start to pay and buy more magic tricks. And and [00:41:40] that’s how it started off. Uh, um, throughout my life, it’s always been [00:41:45] there. Uh, at one point, I was doing it professionally. I was performing on stage. I [00:41:50] had big illusions, I had assistants.

[EVERYONE]: You’re kidding. Yeah.

Martin Attariani: Yeah. You know, so, you [00:41:55] know.

[EVERYONE]: Even no wonder.

Payman Langroudi: Stuff.

Martin Attariani: No, no, uh, I did that [00:42:00] for many years because I, um. So around that time I started to play drums as well. So I was [00:42:05] in a music band, and, uh, it just happened to be that, you know, [00:42:10] I would, uh, for, uh, you know, when we went for gigs and everything, I would do [00:42:15] magic show in between the breaks. So, you know, extra money [00:42:20] coming in, and, uh, I was studying at the same time as well. So, [00:42:25] you know, any extra cash would obviously was always welcome. And that’s just, you [00:42:30] know, I just managed to carry that, uh, on throughout my, my life. Really. Um, [00:42:35] and, uh.

[EVERYONE]: It’s just now.

Martin Attariani: Amazing hobbies.

Payman Langroudi: How does it manifest now?

Martin Attariani: Yeah. [00:42:40] So. So now, obviously.

Payman Langroudi: Except for dinner with me.

Martin Attariani: Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: That’s probably not Friday.

Vinne Attariani: Nights [00:42:45] with.

[EVERYONE]: Me.

Martin Attariani: I mean, I still keep it going, you know, with friends and family and [00:42:50] all that, and, uh. Uh, what what happened? The recent events [00:42:55] that happened, uh, probably last year was that, uh, I came [00:43:00] in contact with, uh, Somebody called, [00:43:05] um, uh, Nicky Rowland. Um, and, um, she, [00:43:10] um, wrote a book, um, called The Magic Dentist, [00:43:15] and her daughter did all the illustrations and, [00:43:20] um, uh, a really nice book, uh, for children, obviously, uh, promoting [00:43:25] dental health and oral health. And, uh, I came [00:43:30] in touch with her through a Facebook post. Uh, she was looking for [00:43:35] dentists and magicians who could help with her campaign. Um, [00:43:40] uh, which which is promoting, uh, oral health and oral care to [00:43:45] to children. Okay. And I called her up and I said, well, [00:43:50] guess what? I’m a dentist and I’m a magician. So, um, [00:43:55] that’s how we started off. And, uh, we’ve been doing some events together. Uh, [00:44:00] we worked on a, um, an education material, [00:44:05] um, again, promoting and teaching oral care to dentists, [00:44:10] which we are trying to get sent to all the schools, um, around, [00:44:15] around UK. Um, and um, it’s we’re [00:44:20] trying to encourage other dentists or dental professionals to get [00:44:25] involved, uh, whether they do magic themselves, um, or whether [00:44:30] they get involved with magicians, um, local to their area [00:44:35] and visit, uh, the schools, the, uh, local schools [00:44:40] and promote oral, oral health.

Payman Langroudi: So if you come across other dentists who are magicians because I know [00:44:45] one.

Martin Attariani: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Ju.

Martin Attariani: Ash.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Martin Attariani: Ash. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I know two. You [00:44:50] know, I know two. There’s one that came on mini smile makeover as well. Okay. Yeah. [00:44:55]

Martin Attariani: Ash does magic as well. Um, he’s he’s involved in the magic dentist. Uh, [00:45:00] so it’s a great campaign. And, uh, I’ve been I’ve [00:45:05] been doing school visits since I bought my practice in 2008. So I [00:45:10] think educating our younger generation and and their parents [00:45:15] is paramount in what we do. I mean, it’s not about, you know, repairing [00:45:20] damages. It’s it’s about prevention, obviously. And I think that [00:45:25] is something that is we need to invest more on in this country. [00:45:30] Educating the younger generation.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting. Like bugbear on this subject, here [00:45:35] is we manage as a profession. Yeah. Haven’t managed to get out [00:45:40] the frequency of sugar being [00:45:45] people. Everyone. If you ask anyone, they say, yeah, brush your teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t eat sweets. [00:45:50] Yeah. But the frequency point. Exactly. We haven’t managed to get out.

Martin Attariani: Exactly.

[EVERYONE]: That’s what I’m saying. [00:45:55]

Payman Langroudi: And it’s mad that.

Vinne Attariani: We talk about it or talk about it.

[EVERYONE]: We talk about all the time. Profession? Yeah. [00:46:00] I’m saying that’s what I’m saying.

Martin Attariani: We’re failing in that, to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, if you go out in the street and ask 100 people. [00:46:05] Yeah. Very few. Well, maybe, I reckon 98% will know. Don’t [00:46:10] eat sugar and brush your teeth. Yeah, but the frequency of sugar, like, not the amounts, [00:46:15] right. That we didn’t manage to get out as a as a as a profession. It’s mad.

Martin Attariani: You know, I think I [00:46:20] think, uh, a big chunk of [00:46:25] the NHS fund should go towards educating the, the wider [00:46:30] public. You know, we should have adverts on, on, on TV and [00:46:35] newspapers everywhere. Uh, about the easiest [00:46:40] thing, like you said, just cutting down the frequency, which is the key. You know, [00:46:45] we haven’t managed to to.

[EVERYONE]: Because, you know.

Payman Langroudi: You told my daughter.

[EVERYONE]: Don’t eat sweets.

Vinne Attariani: It’s not going [00:46:50] to happen.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not going to happen.

[EVERYONE]: No.

Payman Langroudi: She’s going to want her cake or whatever she wants. Yeah. You explain to [00:46:55] her. Listen, have your cake once a day. Yeah. Instead of a tiny thing every half [00:47:00] hour. Exactly. Yeah, that would make a difference in frequency.

[EVERYONE]: It’s mad.

Vinne Attariani: That is part of our. [00:47:05] That is part of our education when we talk to our patients. Every patient gets that.

Martin Attariani: Even [00:47:10] the school, we’ve done school visits together.

[EVERYONE]: As.

Martin Attariani: Well, haven’t we? And even there it’s [00:47:15] always an eye opener to to even the teachers sitting and listening, [00:47:20] uh, thinking, you know, even to them, it’s it’s it’s news.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah. [00:47:25]

Vinne Attariani: And it’s a wider it needs to be on a wider scale. Doesn’t like you said NHS TV.

[EVERYONE]: I think even [00:47:30] diet.

Payman Langroudi: Itself isn’t as as prominent in people’s heads as brushing.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah, [00:47:35] absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: People think brushing is the key.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But diet’s the.

[EVERYONE]: Key. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Right. And [00:47:40] we didn’t manage really to get that story out properly either as a profession, which is crazy [00:47:45] when you think about the, the billions that are spent, as you say, on dentistry. [00:47:50] The key thing, this preventable disease, we’re not getting that message out properly.

[EVERYONE]: Exactly. [00:47:55]

Martin Attariani: And when you.

[EVERYONE]: See.

Martin Attariani: When you read in the news, how many is [00:48:00] 10,000? 14,000. Uh, thousands of of, [00:48:05] um, uh, dental extractions that are carried out on children under [00:48:10] GA.

Payman Langroudi: The most common cause of GA for children.

Martin Attariani: It’s it’s heartbreaking. It’s [00:48:15] absolutely heartbreaking. I think that is our duty as.

[EVERYONE]: A as a profession. [00:48:20]

Payman Langroudi: In Sweden, they’ve got this right.

Martin Attariani: Yeah, absolutely. Got it right. Many years ago. [00:48:25] Yeah. Probably 20 or 30 years ago. That’s why the oral hygiene is, is [00:48:30] is very good over there. People are very educated in you know, we have [00:48:35] something that which is something that I’ve been trying to promote here in Sweden. We’ve got something [00:48:40] called Saturday candy.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a candy.

[EVERYONE]: Yes. Sweet.

Martin Attariani: Saturday. [00:48:45] Sweets. Saturday. Pick and mix. And if you go to the shops, the signs [00:48:50] say, say, say. Or can say Saturday. Uh, goodies. [00:48:55] Gordis let us go this which is Saturday Suites basically. So [00:49:00] parents are already informed and educated. [00:49:05]

Payman Langroudi: Encouraged.

Martin Attariani: In in in trying to cut down on the amount of sugar [00:49:10] that children have throughout the week. So Saturday is is a good day. It’s a family [00:49:15] day. Have your sweets, have your.

[EVERYONE]: Whatever.

Martin Attariani: During the week, you know, try to cut [00:49:20] down on that frequency. Um, so fluoride is very big in Sweden. We’ve [00:49:25] got fluoride tablets.

[EVERYONE]: We’ve got supplements.

Vinne Attariani: There. Right. Because I’ve got.

[EVERYONE]: Patients from.

Vinne Attariani: Scandinavia, they’re like.

[EVERYONE]: Oh yeah, you [00:49:30] can have my supplements, you can buy fluoride tablets.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

Martin Attariani: So you [00:49:35] know, we’ve got we managed to get that message through many, many years ago.

Payman Langroudi: Canada [00:49:40] took the fluoride fluoride.

[EVERYONE]: Trays.

Vinne Attariani: Every, every time.

[EVERYONE]: When the dentist.

Vinne Attariani: You had fluoride tray [00:49:45] treatment in the back.

Payman Langroudi: We have a hygienist used to work for us. She was a Canadian hygienist and she used to say [00:49:50] fluoride and bleaching. Yeah. Um, are gigantic parts of the The hygienist repertoire [00:49:55] in Canada, but not here at all in Sweden.

Martin Attariani: Every [00:50:00] hygiene session is finished by fluoride. Application.

Payman Langroudi: Routinely. [00:50:05]

Martin Attariani: Routinely.

[EVERYONE]: Really?

Martin Attariani: Routinely. I was shocked [00:50:10] when I came here. I was like, what? No fluoride after. And then. And then you see, you hear from patients [00:50:15] saying, you know, reporting how sensitive the teeth are after they had a hygiene session [00:50:20] because they’re not getting fluoride.

Payman Langroudi: Well, are you aware of fluoride is getting a bit [00:50:25] of a bad name now? Are you aware of that?

Martin Attariani: Of course there is. I mean, I’ve got patients [00:50:30] who don’t even.

Payman Langroudi: Use.

Martin Attariani: Fluoride toothpaste.

Payman Langroudi: Even amongst dentists, like, there are some [00:50:35] dentists saying now, um, that why risk fluoride when you have hydroxyapatite? [00:50:40] Um, and it’s a funny thing, you know, because we did [00:50:45] a hydroxyapatite toothpaste 14 years ago when we were formulating. [00:50:50] We couldn’t. It was very difficult to put this out with fluoride in [00:50:55] it because, you know, fluoride, fluoride binds to hydroxyapatite. You get fluorapatite, right? You [00:51:00] don’t. That’s how it protects your teeth. But you can’t have fluorapatite in the tube. Yeah. [00:51:05] Applying fluorapatite to your teeth isn’t the same as applying fluoride or hydroxyapatite. [00:51:10] And we knew this and we went. I had to jump through so many hurdles [00:51:15] because we had to put fluoride in it, because without fluoride in it, no dentist would buy it from us. [00:51:20] Yeah. And in the end, I think we put out a worse product because of it. Yeah. [00:51:25] Because, you know, it’s bound. We used a nano form of hydroxyapatite [00:51:30] that doesn’t bind to the form of fluoride that we put in it. But, you know, it became a much more expensive [00:51:35] product and much less effective product because we had to put fluoride in it. Yeah. Now [00:51:40] there’s this conversation around hydroxyapatite. Of course, people are trying to say they [00:51:45] want things, not the things they don’t want. Yeah. So they don’t want SLS. Uh, [00:51:50] sodium lauryl Sulphate. They don’t want parabens. They don’t want fluoride. [00:51:55] It’s become very common and interesting thing. One of the ladies who works here, she [00:52:00] told me, my son, I put him one day, fluoride toothpaste one day, not fluoride toothpaste [00:52:05] because I’m a bit worried. And I said to her, well, that’s, that’s that’s huge. You’re halving [00:52:10] his fluoride. Yeah. And she’s like, yeah, I’m a bit worried. And I thought this really interesting idea of like, [00:52:15] if I don’t want fluoride, what’s the best toothpaste. Yeah. And [00:52:20] it’s a dangerous conversation almost for a dentist to have. Yeah. Um. Uh goolnik [00:52:25] put something out and, and someone else said, oh, I’m really sad that the [00:52:30] dentist is saying this, and it’s become like a it’s a funny moment regarding fluoride. [00:52:35]

Martin Attariani: I think you just have to go by the evidence out there, obviously [00:52:40] the science behind it and everything. And, you know, not until things are proven, uh, [00:52:45] you know, um, concretely, um, [00:52:50] I think, you know, the general, uh, conception is going to be, you know, fluoride [00:52:55] is good for prevention, so.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but there’s, you know, there’s some, you know, you can find evidence, whatever you want to find it. Right? Because [00:53:00] there’s this there’s this evidence about how fluoride is affecting kids. Yeah. Learning [00:53:05] and so forth. You know, whether whether we believe it or not. Yeah. It’s always been this fraught thing, [00:53:10] hasn’t it.

[EVERYONE]: No.

Martin Attariani: Of course. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about what plans you two have together as [00:53:15] far as business.

Vinne Attariani: Um, well, our plan [00:53:20] at the moment, we’ve got the two practices, Leamington and in Brackley, and [00:53:25] we’re both working there independently, which, um, is working for now, [00:53:30] but they ultimately want to do something together. So the aim is to do some [00:53:35] sort of business venture, whether it’s Dental or not. Dental uh, together, not [00:53:40] Dental it could be not not Dental entirely. Um, I [00:53:45] quite like the idea of Something a bit more, [00:53:50] uh, holistic or whole body centred as opposed to just being teeth. That’s [00:53:55] something that I quite, um, I’m quite interested in. So, you know, I’ve done dentistry [00:54:00] for 24 years. Love it, enjoy it. But I’m thinking just to go a bit wider [00:54:05] than just teeth. So I don’t want to say exactly, exactly [00:54:10] what just yet, but that’s that’s kind of where.

Payman Langroudi: Definitely a trend [00:54:15] I’m seeing more of. Yeah.

Vinne Attariani: Just because it’s like it’s again, like you said, like, okay, we can treat the teeth, but [00:54:20] then we’re not teaching or maybe don’t have the time. Private practices. You do have a bit more time [00:54:25] to educate your patients, but um, about okay frequency. How does your diet affect, [00:54:30] you know, your teeth? How does your lifestyle affect your teeth? How is your sleep [00:54:35] pattern affecting your teeth? How so looking at the body as a unit as opposed [00:54:40] to just the teeth. And that’s something I’m quite interested in. You’re you know, you [00:54:45] you’ve got some different viewpoints. But I think have.

Payman Langroudi: You looked at oral microbiome testing at.

Vinne Attariani: All? Just. Yeah. [00:54:50] So, like, you know, like, um, gene testing. Look at microbes do it. [00:54:55] I sort of feel like there’s so much more than just the teeth. You know, there’s [00:55:00] so much more information that feeds into your health, which then obviously you get results. [00:55:05]

[EVERYONE]: You forget.

Martin Attariani: That it’s actually part of.

[EVERYONE]: The. Yeah, it’s part.

Vinne Attariani: Of because we look, we’re so zoned in like it’s just. [00:55:10]

[EVERYONE]: Your.

Vinne Attariani: Diet.

[EVERYONE]: But then, yeah.

Vinne Attariani: You know, why are people eating that way? What are they healthy. [00:55:15] Are they. What’s their lifestyle like? What is their stress like. What are their sleep patterns like? I think [00:55:20] it’s, um, it’s more about the whole package.

Payman Langroudi: Look where where.

[EVERYONE]: You may. [00:55:25]

Vinne Attariani: Be.

Payman Langroudi: Like definitely onto something is that there’s not many places [00:55:30] where it’s, I think half the population. And it’s sad in Britain is only half the population, [00:55:35] but half the population visit twice a year. Yeah, yeah. [00:55:40] There’s not many things like that. Half the population don’t visit twice a year, their GP. Yeah. Or [00:55:45] any other thing.

Vinne Attariani: But people want to know. Do I have a problem?

Payman Langroudi: They’re coming. They’re [00:55:50] coming twice a year. Yeah. Super interesting. Okay. Do the dental exam. But now this, [00:55:55] that and the other. Now, whatever your idea is this, that or the other. Um, [00:56:00] it’s an interesting thing because you’ve got people coming in so often. Let’s [00:56:05] say there’s a I mean, I saw a machine. I was quite interested in the idea. Um, it was oral, [00:56:10] but they put it in the, um, like a piece of blotting [00:56:15] paper into the pocket of either an implant or [00:56:20] a tooth. Stick it into the machine and it comes out with a number for collagen [00:56:25] breakdown. Yeah. And the claim was six months before, uh, peri [00:56:30] implantitis. That number starts moving. Yeah. And so what I’m saying is, let’s [00:56:35] imagine that was a routine thing that you would do in your oral, wonderful, holistic [00:56:40] centre. Now, every six months we’re seeing early warning system of that. That’s just [00:56:45] one example. It could be anything.

Vinne Attariani: It could be anything.

Payman Langroudi: It could be any. Any aspect of. Of [00:56:50] wellbeing.

Vinne Attariani: That’s why I think we’re very much into like wellbeing and, you [00:56:55] know, self-care and prevention. You know, I’ve got patients who will not miss their six month [00:57:00] check-up. Like I’m going to see Vinnie. There’s no way, you know, you can cancel me because they are like clockwork [00:57:05] every six months. They want to know is, am I starting to get a problem? If I am, how can I fix it? What [00:57:10] can you do? What do I need to change? So you want to apply that to your whole health, [00:57:15] not just your teeth, right? Try making an appointment with your GP every six months for a health check. It’s [00:57:20] one is not going to happen on the NHS privately. Yeah. There there there is [00:57:25] you know scope for something like that. I’m, I’m probably because I’m approaching that age now I think [00:57:30] I wonder how everything’s working in my body. So if I need to make changes, I want to start making them now. [00:57:35] I don’t want to wait till I’m ill or I have to take medication, you know? So I think that’s [00:57:40] that’s a concept there. I think that can that were.

[EVERYONE]: You.

Payman Langroudi: Attracted to that sort of whole body MRI [00:57:45] scan.

Vinne Attariani: Um, I don’t I’m not that far yet. [00:57:50] I think, I mean, what’s the what’s the story with that then?

Payman Langroudi: So you go in, they scan, you. [00:57:55]

Vinne Attariani: Scan everything.

Payman Langroudi: And.

[EVERYONE]: Then.

Payman Langroudi: It goes further, actually. They do all the cancer [00:58:00] markers.

[EVERYONE]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, blood tests with, like, I don’t know, I think it’s 60 [00:58:05] things. They’re looking.

[EVERYONE]: For everything.

Payman Langroudi: And, um. But my brother’s a radiologist, and he said, look, if you have a MRI, [00:58:10] all three of us will show something that could be just something slightly [00:58:15] away from the norm. He’s like, what are you going to do? Are you going to go and have do an operation on that thing? Yeah. [00:58:20] You know, you can bring up issues that actually weren’t going to be a problem.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: That’s a [00:58:25] problem. That’s that’s a problem with it. The more you know, the more you kind.

Martin Attariani: Of worry about [00:58:30] it. I think to some extent you just have to like, you know, live your life.

[EVERYONE]: And trust [00:58:35] the process.

Vinne Attariani: As.

[EVERYONE]: There is, you know.

Martin Attariani: Leave.

[EVERYONE]: The unknown.

Martin Attariani: To the unknown.

Vinne Attariani: But I mean, like, just simple [00:58:40] things like weight and, you know, sleeping patterns is such a big thing. And fitness [00:58:45] Dental health. What you’re eating, what you’re drinking? Are you smoking? You’re not smoking habits and [00:58:50] even like community things are you like integrating, doing things with community because that gives you wellbeing [00:58:55] factor as well. So some people are still like in their little shell after Covid, they [00:59:00] probably still got patients who still sweat leaving the house because they’re worried they’re going to catch Covid. It makes [00:59:05] me really sad. One patient, she comes like she’s the first patient of the day. She gets there like 15 [00:59:10] minutes earlier. She’s sitting on her own in the waiting room. She can’t be around people and I’ve seen her go like downhill. [00:59:15] I’ve been seeing her for 12 years and she’s so withdrawn. And you get upset [00:59:20] when you see that. So there are probably a lot of people like that who just don’t reach out, right? [00:59:25] You just don’t know of them because you don’t see them. So I think the whole I think looking at [00:59:30] everything, that’s what I’m interested in. So yeah, that’s what I want.

Payman Langroudi: Have [00:59:35] you planned to do this or not yet?

[EVERYONE]: We’ve been talking about it.

Martin Attariani: And, uh, you [00:59:40] know, I think it’s a great idea. A very different, different approach. [00:59:45] Uh, so, uh, we got, you know, plans [00:59:50] to hopefully materialise that at some point in the future. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Just, you know, sometimes [00:59:55] when it’s a new thing, it’s, um, you know, like you said. Oh, you [01:00:00] got to have your point of difference. Yeah. And you make a mistake sometimes where [01:00:05] you try and invent something completely new, and then it’s difficult to describe [01:00:10] it. Yeah. And then let’s say I give you a limited marketing budget. [01:00:15] Yeah. And your budget can’t describe what? Because people don’t know what this [01:00:20] thing is. You know, a bit like Ronan was telling me with the, um, toothpaste tabs. Yeah. [01:00:25] It’s a it’s a habit of a lifetime. Brushing your teeth with toothpaste? Yeah. You try and change that something. [01:00:30] Um. And so my my, the general point I’m making is [01:00:35] you don’t always have to completely reinvent the wheel to to make a successful [01:00:40] or a thing that makes you happy in a way. Like if you think of it like [01:00:45] a restaurant. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be a completely new concept. It [01:00:50] just has to be a better restaurant. Yeah.

[EVERYONE]: You know, I’m not thinking of.

Vinne Attariani: Doing, like, a massive.

[EVERYONE]: Chain.

Vinne Attariani: And [01:00:55] take over the world, but, like, when my patients come in, sometimes we’ll do it. We’ll have a 20 minute appointment. [01:01:00] And the last thing they want to talk about is teeth. They want to tell me about their skin problems. They want to tell me about. [01:01:05] Oh, you know, I don’t know the game pains they give you.

[EVERYONE]: They give you pains [01:01:10] and.

Vinne Attariani: Health issues of everything else. And then you’re doing a bit of psychology talking with them. So I’ve gone on the internet to [01:01:15] search something with them, you know, side by side. So the patients, they trust you, [01:01:20] right. Having a dentist that you’re happy to see every six months, there’s so much trust in that, [01:01:25] you know, they really trust what you say. And it could be about anything, you know, not just [01:01:30] the teeth, because they you’re in a really strong position.

[EVERYONE]: Their position. Yeah.

Vinne Attariani: Yeah. So [01:01:35] if you can help them like I quite enjoy talking about okay. I don’t know They start a new drug [01:01:40] and they gained this sort of interaction. I’m not playing medical, but I do like help them. Kind of like break [01:01:45] it down, digest what’s happening and give them little tips and help them look up, you [01:01:50] know, things that they’re probably not thinking of or they get. I get spoken to about [01:01:55] all sorts of things, you know, and I think that’s nice to tap into that somehow. Yeah, it keeps [01:02:00] me. I get interested by it. I feel like I’m venturing out a.

[EVERYONE]: Little bit more than just [01:02:05] more meaningful, more personal.

Vinne Attariani: It’s more personal then. So it becomes a bit even more [01:02:10] personal when you’re looking after other parts of their health. Not not just Dental. Right. [01:02:15] And you’ve got time to educate them as well. You know, you spend the time on the oral health [01:02:20] education, the however you want to. So it’s having the time. It’s having [01:02:25] it’s having the the ability to be able to spend as long as you want with that individual. [01:02:30] And there I think there’s a market for that. I would pay for that. If there was, I would happily [01:02:35] pay for a six month health check. I’m like, I see value in it, knowing that, you know, [01:02:40] everything’s ticked, ticked off, and I’m doing all the right things. Do I need to change what I’m doing? Do [01:02:45] I need to, you know, eat different, drink different, sleep different. You know, so there [01:02:50] is value in that?

Payman Langroudi: Sure. Amazing.

[VOICE]: This [01:02:55] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:03:00] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:03:05] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:03:10] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And [01:03:15] just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had [01:03:20] to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If [01:03:25] you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would share [01:03:30] this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks. [01:03:35]

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.