Payman Langroudi: One of the most common questions I get is how do I do more teeth whitening? The basis of that is to really [00:00:05] believe in it, and the basis of that is to fully understand it. Join us for enlightened online training on [00:00:10] Enlightened Online Training.com to understand how to assess a case quickly, how to deliver [00:00:15] brilliant results every time. Next time whitening Underwhelms try and lighten. Now let’s get to the [00:00:20] pod.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:25] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you [00:00:30] get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:35] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav [00:00:40] Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Mojdeh Rampur [00:00:45] onto the podcast Doctor Moj, otherwise known as Doctor Moj. Um, good to have [00:00:50] you, buddy. Nice. Nice for you to come round the corner from where you live, right?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, it’s actually very, [00:00:55] very, very close. Unlike some of your guests, I imagine have had long, long, arduous journeys. Mine [00:01:00] was pretty quick. It was a 12 minute Uber Uber journey. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So and your practice [00:01:05] is very nearby.

Moj Dehghanpour: Practice is very nearby. So yeah. Well, first of all, firstly, thank you for inviting [00:01:10] me. My pleasure. Um, you know, I’ve watched many of your podcasts in the past [00:01:15] and, uh, it’s it’s it’s it’s a pleasure to be here today. Uh, but. Yeah. [00:01:20] So as you said, doctor moj is, uh, uh, [00:01:25] people call me sometimes, but, um, but yeah, it’s just moj watch.

Payman Langroudi: I see you around at [00:01:30] the dental education events. You’re always at all of them. Um, and, [00:01:35] uh, I always think, what a cool dude, man.

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh.

Payman Langroudi: Were you always cool?

Moj Dehghanpour: Well, [00:01:40] I wasn’t actually. No, I was the genuine inflection point.

Payman Langroudi: Um.

Moj Dehghanpour: It [00:01:45] was a good question. Um, I don’t yeah, I mean, I don’t I don’t think I consider myself [00:01:50] cool now, so I don’t think that that point has actually been reached quite yet. But anyway, it’s very kind of you [00:01:55] to say so. Um, no, it’s. Listen, I. I. You’re [00:02:00] right. We always do tend to bump each other sort of on the Dental circuit at various events [00:02:05] and, um, you know, the the. Yeah. The reason for that, really is that [00:02:10] I do love dentistry. I am a bit of a dental geek, so. And, um, [00:02:15] maybe less so now, but I used to be also a one of those sort of cliche course [00:02:20] junkies as well. So I was, you know, every course you could think of from a very, very early stage.

Payman Langroudi: When [00:02:25] did that kick in? I mean, were you a very conscientious dental student, very conscientious A-level person, [00:02:30] or was it after you qualified some people was after.

Moj Dehghanpour: It was after. [00:02:35] Look, in all honesty, I can remember and, you know, we can touch on this, but, you [00:02:40] know, I was born in Iran, um, and I [00:02:45] actually studied, uh, sort of the first, my first year [00:02:50] at school there. And then we moved here when I was around sort of seven years old.

Payman Langroudi: Do you remember?

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, [00:02:55] I have very vague recollections of of the school in Iran. [00:03:00] Um, I did have a one month stint after that because we went back for [00:03:05] for a few months. And I do remember that. And that was a couple of years after we first moved here. And that was [00:03:10] that was nice, because all I remember is the, the, um, the deputy head in the classroom with [00:03:15] a some kind of weapon to, to sort of beat kids. I think it was [00:03:20] like a baton, literally. Um, so he called a few kids up to the front and sort [00:03:25] of asking them questions, and if they didn’t know, they got, you know, sort of whack on the palm of the hand. But I do remember [00:03:30] that, and I probably was around 9 or 10 years old then. Um, but um, but [00:03:35] yeah, I wasn’t. I do remember when, when we first moved here in one [00:03:40] of the parents evenings. I can’t remember when it was, but it was pretty. I must have been quite young. Uh, [00:03:45] one of the teacher said he’s quite bright, but he doesn’t pay attention in class, and he’s, you know, constantly, [00:03:50] like losing focus and things like that. I do have this sort of recollection of that being said [00:03:55] or my mum telling me afterwards, um, so I was never I wouldn’t say I was an amazing [00:04:00] student. Um, I went to, um, [00:04:05] pretty, in fact, pretty, pretty bad schools, [00:04:10] uh, up until my A-levels. Uh, I went to [00:04:15] a comprehensive, uh, down in London. Maybe. [00:04:20] Maybe, I don’t know. I don’t know if I should mention the name or not.

Payman Langroudi: Why not? Why not?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, it’s called Westminster [00:04:25] City. Uh, it’s in Victoria Common. Very easily confused with Westminster [00:04:30] School, which we could not be more further apart. Right. [00:04:35] So usually whenever I say to someone. Westminster City, Westminster School, you know about half of Parliament’s from there, [00:04:40] you know, and um and but it’s like no, no, no that word city [00:04:45] at the end, it makes a massive difference to the equation. Um, but interestingly, [00:04:50] the health secretary was actually my year. Which health secretary Wes Streeting.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Moj Dehghanpour: So [00:04:55] if you’re if you’re, if you’re.

Payman Langroudi: In your.

Moj Dehghanpour: Year in my year and we were sort of we weren’t close friends [00:05:00] but you know, it was someone I would you know, we would play and, you know, play playground [00:05:05] and, you know, break times and lunch times I would see and, uh, so whereas if you’re watching this [00:05:10] fixed dentistry, so you probably don’t remember me, but I [00:05:15] do remember him quite reasonably well. Uh, he was he was definitely a lot more studious than me when I was, [00:05:20] when I was younger.

Payman Langroudi: Do you remember your sort of impression of Britain and school [00:05:25] when you got here compared to Iran? I mean, and.

Moj Dehghanpour: It was a lot more relaxed. [00:05:30] It was a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, first few years I, you know, I in all honesty, [00:05:35] I found it sort of I found it very easy and sort of child’s play really. Uh, [00:05:40] the first few years at least, until sort of my, my system readjusted to, to sort of the [00:05:45] British system. Um, but.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t speak the language.

Moj Dehghanpour: I didn’t speak the language. No. [00:05:50] So, um. So, yeah, it was difficult. It was difficult, um, when we when we [00:05:55] in fact, when we first came, um, I remember, uh, first [00:06:00] few days in, in a winter school, uh, you know, not far [00:06:05] from here and, uh, primary school, you know, we were sitting on the floor. The teacher was [00:06:10] there sort of blabbering away. I didn’t have a clue what he was saying. And, uh, [00:06:15] so I was, you know, I sort of looked across and saw this boy next to me sort [00:06:20] of drawing in his little exercise book, and, uh, and [00:06:25] I sort of looked and he was drawing a tank, and I thought, okay, it must be, it must be art [00:06:30] class. So, so then I, you know, had a pencil or whatever. And then I started doodling away and [00:06:35] drawing a tank as well. And then next thing I know, the teacher comes across and um, starts [00:06:40] sort of, uh, in a sort of slightly irritated voice saying, you know, [00:06:45] I imagine at the time said, what are you kids doing? You know. And then I quickly realised, actually, [00:06:50] it’s not art. This idiot next to me was just was just doodling away.

Payman Langroudi: So so [00:06:55] funny. What sticks with you, man? Because, yeah, my first day of school here, I actually used to go to an [00:07:00] English school in Iran. But, you know, obviously my English wasn’t great because, uh, the [00:07:05] teacher kept shouting. Silence, silence. And I thought silence was this person, [00:07:10] you know, like this real naughty kid that could have confused with Simon or something. [00:07:15] Yeah. And that stuck with me, you know.

Moj Dehghanpour: Until now. It’s funny.

Payman Langroudi: But my first impressions [00:07:20] of the UK, when I came, it was a difficult time. In the UK, it was [00:07:25] the summer, winter, winter of discontent. Yeah. So 1978, [00:07:30] the oil price because of Iran.

Moj Dehghanpour: Had gone.

Payman Langroudi: Through the.

Moj Dehghanpour: Roof, through the roof.

Payman Langroudi: And everything was [00:07:35] broken in Britain. Everything. Nothing was working. There was there was rubbish piled up. [00:07:40] There was a general strike. Everyone was on strike, including, you know, the guys who bury, [00:07:45] you know, for burials.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And so there was a [00:07:50] funny smell and it was a it was dark and it was raining. And I remember thinking, what the hell [00:07:55] happened to our family, man? You know, like, you know, like we’ve been downgraded. Yeah, yeah. What was your what was your [00:08:00] initial feeling?

[TRANSITION]: Um, I mean, look.

Moj Dehghanpour: So, uh, we moved [00:08:05] in. Um, it was 89, so. Yeah, I guess some.

Payman Langroudi: Years, ten years [00:08:10] later.

Moj Dehghanpour: The stench had probably disappeared largely by then.

Payman Langroudi: No, 89 Britain.

Moj Dehghanpour: Was a great place, right? [00:08:15] So, yeah. Um. Um, yeah. No, it’s. I can’t say [00:08:20] I’ve got a lot of memories I can remember vividly, but I [00:08:25] just remember it being we didn’t have any family here. Right? Um, [00:08:30] so it it was me. I had, uh, we were a family of three boys. I’m [00:08:35] the eldest. Um, the youngest is also a dentist. He’s an endodontist. [00:08:40] My brother, um, and my middle brother’s sort of in finance. [00:08:45] He does something completely different. Um, but we came here, you know, as as I said, we didn’t. I didn’t [00:08:50] speak English as my mum was at home. Uh, and, um, [00:08:55] you know, my dad would go to work, and then it was just my mum and the three boys basically at home, you know, sort of housewife, [00:09:00] sort of, uh, being a housewife and looking after the kids. And it was difficult. And it was challenging because [00:09:05] my actually the first sort of within the first sort of 6 to 12 [00:09:10] months of us being here, my dad was taken sort of ill into hospital and he wasn’t well, [00:09:15] um, and um, they couldn’t quite figure out what was going on. They said issues with [00:09:20] his kidneys and, um, and then I think they finally said, oh, it must be kidney stones or something. [00:09:25] And they were going to operate. And he was in hospital for, for some time. And, you know, we were at home by [00:09:30] ourselves and very you know, my [00:09:35] background is for a very humble background.

Moj Dehghanpour: It wasn’t you know, we weren’t sort of, um. Apart [00:09:40] from each other. We didn’t have a lot. I would say, um, [00:09:45] one memory I would have is, uh, one of my dad’s colleagues. [00:09:50] Actually, one day he came and picked me up and he took me out, you know, to sort of [00:09:55] whilst my dad was in hospital. And, um, he bought me a [00:10:00] Happy Meal. And I remember that was like, wow. You know, it’s amazing. It’s such a great day. You know, just because [00:10:05] the fact that I’ve got this Happy Meal and I’ve got the toy, which normally I wouldn’t get when my dad was there and, [00:10:10] um, you know, it’s just in terms of what Britain was [00:10:15] like, um, I guess. More than anything [00:10:20] that sticks with me now is that that those, those sort of memories of, of [00:10:25] it was, you know, it was it was a bit of a struggle. In all honesty. I didn’t I didn’t see [00:10:30] the, the positive aspects necessarily of Britain. Okay. In a different [00:10:35] way to yourself. Like, you know, um, I didn’t think oh great. Oh we’re in, we’re in, we’re in England [00:10:40] now, England now. You know, life’s great, you know. It wasn’t. I missed my cousins. I missed the family, you know, [00:10:45] etc.. Um, and, you know, those days there was no WhatsApp video [00:10:50] call or zoom or whatever you call.

Payman Langroudi: You underestimate how long it takes to assimilate into a new [00:10:55] culture. Yeah, because we’ve got people working here now. Yeah, they’ve been here three years. Four [00:11:00] years sometimes. And that’s some of the most difficult times, you know, because three, four years in [00:11:05] you definitely don’t fit in here yet. Yeah. And and interestingly you don’t [00:11:10] fit in back home either. Yeah. Because for 3 or 4 years, people I mean, you were saying Iran-Iraq War. [00:11:15] Yeah. If you, if once you’d gone back to Iran, people had been through like a bit of [00:11:20] war that you hadn’t been through. Exactly. And people underestimate it. It takes I think it takes [00:11:25] a good 7 or 8 years before you start calling the new place home. Yeah. Or feeling like it’s home? [00:11:30] Yeah. So you were in this sort of tough, comprehensive school?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. So, [00:11:35] yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: So I went to. So after I after finished at that was a primary school. [00:11:40] Went to a secondary school that uh upon advice of one [00:11:45] of my dad’s friends. His son was also there. This was a school in, uh, like I said, [00:11:50] it was in Victoria, Westminster City. And, uh, he was ill [00:11:55] informed that this was a good school and it was far from it. I mean, we had the, you know, [00:12:00] the whole full shebang of drugs and, uh, knives [00:12:05] and stabbings in the school. And I witnessed someone one, one a student, [00:12:10] fellow student in the class get stabbed. You know, this boy, I’ll never forget it. He [00:12:15] just came into the class and he said something along the lines of, um, I don’t know. His uncle had passed away, [00:12:20] and, um, he basically was just like, look, you know, I’m not in the mood today. No [00:12:25] one sort of bothered me. And one of the other boys, it was this was a boys [00:12:30] school, one of the other boys who was sort of a known bully, let’s say, didn’t [00:12:35] sort of take that, didn’t sit well with him being told what to do. And he [00:12:40] literally just sort of grabbed him, you know, by his collar and pushed him against the wall and said, who [00:12:45] do you think you are? You know, kind of thing. And at the time, that boy was cutting something up with a pair of scissors, [00:12:50] and all I saw was just like him just going.

Payman Langroudi: Wow.

Moj Dehghanpour: Stabbed him in the arm. Obviously wearing white [00:12:55] shirts and ties and whatever uniform just arm just went full on red.

Payman Langroudi: Wow. [00:13:00]

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, teacher got raped outside school gates.

Payman Langroudi: Whoa.

Moj Dehghanpour: This is, [00:13:05] you know, uh, it’s. I mean, we had to work. I mean, I, I got bullied, I got bullied, [00:13:10] so when I first joined, I was like the new kid, right? I didn’t join in year seven. I was slightly later for some [00:13:15] reason, because we.

Payman Langroudi: Stood out somehow.

Moj Dehghanpour: New kid. Yeah. Got the new kid treatment. Um, [00:13:20] uh, I remember I used to get sent out, um, various points throughout the [00:13:25] day. There would be like, uh, go and scout some penny sweets, you know, cola bottles. You’d get these [00:13:30] from the local corner shop, you’d get these little bags of, you probably remember, uh, bags of sweets, [00:13:35] 2020 cola bottles for like £0.20 or something. And so, you know, [00:13:40] I was in year eight or year nine, you know, we weren’t allowed to go out to school grounds, but I had to go to school, [00:13:45] you know, next to the school gates, make sure there’s no one around, run to the shop, buy them the [00:13:50] sweets from my with my own money, run back, make sure no one sees me. And then? And then this [00:13:55] can continued for a while until I thought, you know what? Enough’s enough. I’m not going to take this no more. So I sort of [00:14:00] went to the deputy head one day and I said, listen, this is what’s happening. And, [00:14:05] uh, yeah, it’s just basically ruining my life here, you know, kind of thing. [00:14:10] So, um, anyway, so all this went on, it was, it was, it was not a [00:14:15] great school. So. So then.

Payman Langroudi: You switched an A-level to another.

Moj Dehghanpour: A-levels. Somehow, miraculously, [00:14:20] I did well in my GCSEs. Yeah. And I ended up in a school [00:14:25] called QE Boys in High Barnet, which is, I think, even to this day, is one of the best [00:14:30] state schools in the country as a grammar school. And and again, there were worlds apart, you [00:14:35] know, all of a sudden I was like the rebel of this school, you know.

Payman Langroudi: So can I ask, what did the Westminster [00:14:40] City, whatever you called it, the Westminster. Westminster City, what did it give you? I mean, did it give you street [00:14:45] smarts?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Like getting on with all different types of people?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yes. Um, [00:14:50] so what I would say is, and and this I do, [00:14:55] I do genuinely believe that my journey uh, to, to [00:15:00] till today and, you know, we’ll go into sort of various aspects of it has [00:15:05] definitely shaped who I am and [00:15:10] shaped how I, how I behave around people outside of work [00:15:15] and also with patients. And I think thanks to those types of experiences [00:15:20] now, I don’t necessarily wish it on other people or my own kids, for example. Um, [00:15:25] but as a result of that hardship, I now can [00:15:30] relate to certain people that maybe one day my son will never be able to. For example, or [00:15:35] some of my friends who have not had their same experience can’t. You know, I and and and [00:15:40] I’ve sort of I realised the importance of this after. [00:15:45] Sort of witnessing certain other people throughout my journey as well. One of. One [00:15:50] of whom actually was at university was, uh, my friend Millard [00:15:55] as well. Millard. Singing dentist.

Payman Langroudi: Were you University with them?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. It was, it was three, 2 or 3 years above me [00:16:00] at uni.

Payman Langroudi: And Nilesh.

Moj Dehghanpour: And Nilesh. Yeah. Uh, so Nilesh obviously, I think. Same. [00:16:05] Yeah, yeah. Um, I have one memory of Millard at university. He probably [00:16:10] won’t remember it, but I remember it clearly to this day. And where we [00:16:15] were in the oral surgery clinic, and we were I was probably at the time it must [00:16:20] have been second year or third year. So I was just starting up and I saw this like fourth year or fifth year student, you know, we would, you know, [00:16:25] at that time with God.

Payman Langroudi: With.

Moj Dehghanpour: Hair, uh, I think he did you’re right. I think, yeah, [00:16:30] he did have hair at that point. Um, and, um, and, uh, [00:16:35] well, he’s apparently looking at his new song. He’s got hair again all of a sudden. Um, so he [00:16:40] we’re in oral surgery. He was a bit. He was getting a patient into one of the oral surgery bays, and I, we [00:16:45] went to Barts, so, um, and he literally [00:16:50] got the patient, and the patient didn’t speak English very well. Or maybe at all. All [00:16:55] I remember is saying to this patient, come here, darling, put your something [00:17:00] like bum cheeks or buttocks or something like that. And he’s tapping the, the the dental [00:17:05] chair. Right.

Payman Langroudi: Like that. Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Put your buttocks on here. Come on, come on. And I remember thinking, [00:17:10] thinking, man, what are you on about? You know, how can you talk to someone like that? But listen, you know what? [00:17:15] The lady had a smile on her face. Millard, as as per usual, always has a smile on his face. [00:17:20] And I was like, you know, wow. You know how he could just create that sort of bond by using [00:17:25] unconventional terminology? Let’s just say. So [00:17:30] he was he was one guy. I’ve got this memory of him. Right. And how he managed to connect with that patient. [00:17:35] Um, and then I, you know, there’s been other people. [00:17:40] Sort of along this journey that we can go through. Um, but as a result of going to that school. [00:17:45] Uh, and the experiences and the sort of the it was and it was tough. It was really [00:17:50] tough. And I genuinely didn’t enjoy being in that school. Um, [00:17:55] you know, um, I do feel I’ve got thicker skin. Yeah. [00:18:00] And I’ve managed to then go on and do things and sort of, again, relate to people on a different way. You [00:18:05] know, it was it was something else, you know, that school was something out of Top Boy or something. Like, you know.

Payman Langroudi: You think about it regarding [00:18:10] your own kids because I.

Moj Dehghanpour: Do, I do and I’ve had this chat. Multiple times with multiple people. [00:18:15] Um, and, um, you know, the whole thing about state [00:18:20] schools, private schools. You know, all of that stuff. And and to be honest, look, my [00:18:25] son now goes to, yes, a prep school. Okay. He’s five going [00:18:30] on six and he’s and he’s completely different world to what [00:18:35] I had in all honesty. Um, and yeah, the, the the resilience [00:18:40] that perhaps I had is just a kid born in Iran. [00:18:45] Came here, went through that journey. That’s it’s just not there. Well, at least not yet anyway. As [00:18:50] much as I would love for it to be there. Yeah, it may. It might be that actually, it’s [00:18:55] just unfair for me to have that expectation.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I mean, look, it’ll end up like they say. They say [00:19:00] character is forged by pressure. Yeah. And and the kind of pressure [00:19:05] your kid is going to be under. It’d be a whole different.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’ll be a different pressure.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And they’re under pressure. These [00:19:10] kids now hundred percent.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s a lot, you know, thanks to or thanks or no thanks to the world we live in and [00:19:15] the pace of life and AI now and social media and all that. You know, there’s so [00:19:20] much more competitive than it was. Right.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting. You know, like, for instance, Prav, he [00:19:25] puts down a lot of his success down to his dad’s corner shop. And the [00:19:30] point was, he said, you meet the whole of society in that corner [00:19:35] shop from the poor granny who had no one to talk to, to the rich businessman [00:19:40] who was in a hurry, to the young kid who he said would come back with a balaclava on and steal [00:19:45] from you. Yeah, but but you know, when he handled all these different types of humans, he knew how [00:19:50] to talk to everyone. And if you listen to Prav talking, he just talks so well.

Moj Dehghanpour: I have listened to that episode and [00:19:55] he’s spot on. He’s spot on. I think my own dad, he was he was a guy who [00:20:00] my my granddad, he would he would echo that my my dad’s dad. So [00:20:05] my paternal grandfather owned a fruit and veg shop in Iran. My, [00:20:10] my dad used to work from, I don’t know, the age of five or 6 or [00:20:15] 7 or something, apparently delivering milk to, to sort of. Yeah. And um, and he [00:20:20] says and to this day he he he works full time. My dad still works full time. He’s [00:20:25] got a sort of flooring business and he’s he’s another person [00:20:30] along the, you know, on, on on my journey obviously the OG of [00:20:35] of who I’ve seen and you know to a degree try to emulate because he’s amazing [00:20:40] with people. Now my dad obviously born and raised in Iran, [00:20:45] he went to the States. He’s got an MBA from from America. You know this is pre us [00:20:50] moving here and him getting married. He went back to Iran, got married. Then we came here um, [00:20:55] and then uh, opened up his own business and doing flooring and whatnot.

Moj Dehghanpour: And [00:21:00] you know, to this day he speaks in a very thick Iranian English accent. Of course, you know exactly [00:21:05] what that’s like, right? Yeah. So, um, so he and yet [00:21:10] he’s working in central London, he’s got business in central London. And, uh, he mingles [00:21:15] with some extremely affluent people, very normal people. But somehow. And I’ve seen him at [00:21:20] play in his domain, and somehow he manages to connect with a [00:21:25] guy who maybe has come from all types, all types, you know, and it all sort of [00:21:30] somehow connect with him and build bonds and rapport. And, you know, they call him up and, you know, and, [00:21:35] um, and he’s that type where he will sit in a taxi you can go on holiday with. I mean, I remember we went on a [00:21:40] family trip into Turkey and he’s like in Istanbul, sitting in a taxi, and he starts talking to this guy who could barely speak English, [00:21:45] and he just connects with people. He’s that type. And and I’ve always admired [00:21:50] that for sure. Um, and I think such a within dentistry is such [00:21:55] an in fact, I.

Payman Langroudi: Might be the most.

Moj Dehghanpour: Important. The most important. You know, there’s that classic thing [00:22:00] of dentistry, you know, I remember someone telling me it’s like 70% or 80% communication or 90% communication, [00:22:05] 10% what you do with your hands. And that’s something, you know, I was a trainer at one point or what they call [00:22:10] ISS, I think now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, you know, um, that’s something [00:22:15] I’ve always said to my younger sort of friends and colleagues. And, you know, something [00:22:20] I tried to remember as well is it’s not so much what you do with your hands that matters. It’s what [00:22:25] comes out of here.

Payman Langroudi: Um, you know, we underestimate as well not only patients. Yeah. [00:22:30]

Moj Dehghanpour: Day to.

[TRANSITION]: Day life. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Teams. Right? Yeah. It’s builders. You know, you’ve you’ve done this beautiful [00:22:35] practice. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. You’re, you’re you’re having to sell your vision to the electrician. The [00:22:40] plumber 100%. In a way. You have to talk. The communication skills are really important there. Yeah. Yeah. Let [00:22:45] alone patients, let alone patients. But you know, why did you choose dentistry? [00:22:50]

[TRANSITION]: Um.

Moj Dehghanpour: The classic sort of chose, [00:22:55] I want to say chose me. I don’t know if it chose me. I actually from, from when [00:23:00] I was around five. And this is going to sound very cheesy and completely cliche, but it is the [00:23:05] truth. From around the age of five, I wanted do medicine. It [00:23:10] was that sort of, again, classic thing of my my [00:23:15] mum’s mum, who was very close to. She’s still alive today, uh, had heart issues [00:23:20] and I say, oh, granny, granny. Don’t worry. You know, I’ll grow up and be a heart surgeon and fix you and you know, that kind of thing. [00:23:25] And so anyway, fast forward now to the time where, you [00:23:30] know, I’m doing my Ucas personal statements and I’m doing work experience and my A-levels and, [00:23:35] um, I did a load of work experience in various hospitals, you know, all over sort of London.

Payman Langroudi: So you [00:23:40] were thinking medicine?

Moj Dehghanpour: Oh, yeah. For sure. All the way, you know, from, like I say, from age of five, this is now, [00:23:45] what.

Payman Langroudi: 17?

Moj Dehghanpour: 17. Yeah. Basically 17 set 12 [00:23:50] years. Medicine, medicine, medicine. You know, everything was geared and it was like and obviously, again, sort of, uh, [00:23:55] sort of classic sort of Iranian parents, you know, like doctor, you know, I’ve heard that other fellow [00:24:00] Iranians say the same thing, or Asians say the same thing. You know, it’s that immigrant mindset. Um, and [00:24:05] then but interestingly, wherever I went and in particular, I remember one [00:24:10] experience, I was in UCL hospital UK. In the A&E department, [00:24:15] one night at around seven 8:00 at night I was there doing work experience [00:24:20] and one of the A&E consultants sat me down and [00:24:25] never forget this pen and paper. And he said, he sort of said, this is how much you’re going to earn. [00:24:30] This is how you’re going to do. This is what you need to do. This is your life broke. It really [00:24:35] broke it down right into numbers, but also more than that. And [00:24:40] he basically said, listen, do you want to be taking urine samples at 2 a.m. for less [00:24:45] than what the cleaner in the hospital will make? And I just looked at him and this [00:24:50] is at me, 17 thinking, no, not really. You know, I don’t [00:24:55] think I love it. All of a sudden, I don’t think I love medicine that much. And I think by that point my grandma was a bit better as well. So, you [00:25:00] know, I didn’t feel as guilty. Um, um, so after [00:25:05] that, my dad had a, a friend who, uh, was a dentist, [00:25:10] uh, was actually his.

Moj Dehghanpour: My mum and dad’s dentist. Basically, it’s like an NHS NHS dentist. [00:25:15] And um, I went there. I did work experience there and for [00:25:20] two weeks and this guy said, you know, these days I think all the grade requirements are all about the same, whether it’s medicine, [00:25:25] dentistry. Even in my time it was the same. Um, but back then apparently it [00:25:30] was medicine was slightly higher. So he said, listen, I didn’t get the grades to get into medicine, [00:25:35] but I thank God every single day that I didn’t. And, you know, I have more control over my hours. [00:25:40] It’s I enjoy it more, you know, it’s not as hectic, etc., [00:25:45] as medicine, but I’m still treating patients and I’m still, you know, you’re still in healthcare, so help [00:25:50] people, etc., etc.. So it has a lot of the positives and maybe fewer negatives. Yeah. [00:25:55] And so I was there for two weeks and I thought, you know what? Actually maybe he’s got a point. Um, and [00:26:00] so very as soon as I got back to uh, sixth form, uh, after [00:26:05] the summer break, this was during the summer September. It would have been, I don’t In [00:26:10] 2000, I think it was, um, I went back, changed [00:26:15] my personal statement to I’ve always wanted to do medicine to I’ve always wanted to do dentistry. [00:26:20] And that was it. Never looked back. And to be honest, now it is the best thing that happened to me, that work I [00:26:25] did. And I thank the person that, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Shout him out. Who was it? Do you know.

Moj Dehghanpour: His name was actually someone you probably [00:26:30] know or you’d certainly know the brother. It’s, um, Doctor Al-nahar, whose daughters are also, [00:26:35] uh, Safa, uh, has opened a practice, [00:26:40] but it’s, uh, it was Zuhair Al-nahar. So Bashar’s brother. [00:26:45]

Payman Langroudi: Was the practice in Kensington.

Moj Dehghanpour: In. Yeah, near Hammersmith. Kensington area.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:26:50] yeah yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, yeah. So I did that there. And, um, this is obviously, you know, going back so. [00:26:55] Yeah. Thank you. If you, if you do hear this and actually at the recently I [00:27:00] saw, uh, I.

Payman Langroudi: Should have him on the someone from that family needs to come.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. [00:27:05] 100%. 100%. Yeah. An interesting story. Yeah. So, you know, obviously there were twin brothers [00:27:10] who were sort of dentists and I think there was a there was a third brother from my memory who’s sort of practice manager [00:27:15] type, you know, but it was because of him. It was because of one of the two twins. Um, [00:27:20] and, uh, that is the, you know, why London.

Payman Langroudi: Did you have a [00:27:25] sort of thing that you were going to stay in London?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, I mean, listen, I’ve spent [00:27:30] London’s home, right? Um, I’ve spent most of my life in London, so. And and even to [00:27:35] this day when I go elsewhere, you know, I always consider London home. So. So [00:27:40] why why did I sort of.

Payman Langroudi: Stay in.

Moj Dehghanpour: London? Stay in London? Oh, for university, you mean? Yeah. Um, I [00:27:45] mean, I applied to I did apply to both London universities. It was, you know, [00:27:50] kings and Queen Mary’s and, um, and, um, and, [00:27:55] and I also applied to Birmingham. Manchester. Um, and so what happened was [00:28:00] I, I didn’t actually get the grades. I got four offers. Um, [00:28:05] and my intention. I did want to stay in London. I, I know, I know. [00:28:10] Um, there’s definite, I think, um, positives in [00:28:15] moving out. Um, and actually, I’ve spent probably a lot of time away [00:28:20] from home. Post-qualification. Funnily enough, uh, as you know, I’ve been to other places, [00:28:25] but, um, I didn’t get the grades. I think I was one [00:28:30] sixth of a percent off an A in. I [00:28:35] think it was. No, I needed a B in maths, I think, and I think I got a C in maths. So I ended up getting a b [00:28:40] c, which wasn’t quite enough. But somehow, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Queen Mary said.

Moj Dehghanpour: Queen Mary said come, [00:28:45] but not this year. Next year. So then I ended up taking a gap year.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, what did [00:28:50] you do with your gap year?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, I did, um, so what I did was I actually. Yeah, I helped my dad out with his business for [00:28:55] a few months. Um, I because I didn’t know I was going to get that offer. I was in the [00:29:00] process of retaking my A-levels, and I did that. So for the first sort of three months [00:29:05] up until January. So after September, you know, so you’ve got this results in the summer and in September, October, November, December, [00:29:10] up until January, I retook my levels, I actually did I ended up getting, I think it was like three days or whatever at the [00:29:15] end, but but it was already too late. I got the offer from and I thought, okay, I accepted it, but [00:29:20] it was for the following intake. So January till summer I think. I held my dad out a little bit [00:29:25] with, with work. Um, and then um, I think I did [00:29:30] a bit of travelling and. Yeah, that was about it really. It didn’t really do an awful lot. I probably could have made better use of it, [00:29:35] to be fair. Um, and then started university. Okay. [00:29:40] Um, started university. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: How did you feel about Whitechapel Market? First time you saw that? [00:29:45] So.

Moj Dehghanpour: So I I’m not going to lie. And the guys [00:29:50] from King’s are probably going to be happy to hear this. I did want to go to King’s, and [00:29:55] I remember I’d never been honestly, I’d never been to the East End, ever. [00:30:00]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: I had no reason to go to the East End ever so. I remember the day I went [00:30:05] out for, I think it was for my interview in Whitechapel, and I came out Whitechapel Market, [00:30:10] and I was just like, you know, I was, you know, I’d grown up in like Saint John’s Wood. And I came out and I was.

Payman Langroudi: Like, hell yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: What [00:30:15] is going on? Is this London? So, um, but you know what? [00:30:20] I had the best five years of my life.

Payman Langroudi: I grew to love whichever area you universally loved. It’s actually [00:30:25] a very unique area. It’s actually a very unique.

Moj Dehghanpour: And another thing is, it’s not only [00:30:30] did I love the area, it’s obviously it’s changed my palette because I could not. And [00:30:35] my dad’s the same. Now you know how Iranians are. Food is not spicy, right? So I cannot tolerate any spice whatsoever. [00:30:40] Probably a spicy chicken burger. I couldn’t even handle. But now I, [00:30:45] you know, I’ve got Bangladeshi friends and, you know, there’s like, their spice point is [00:30:50] tolerance is very high. And, you know, I can handle spice as, as, as much as them. So it [00:30:55] completely changes things and absolutely, absolutely loved it. And I’m so glad I went.

Payman Langroudi: You know, my my my buddy went to [00:31:00] Queen Mary’s as well. But in any university that you’ve been in. I went back to [00:31:05] Cardiff to see some of my friends, and when you look around, it’s a tiny little triangle [00:31:10] that we used to hang out in. At the time, it felt like the whole world was was in that triangle. [00:31:15] But my my buddy said to me, he said when he walks around Whitechapel, he feels like, you know, he’s [00:31:20] he’s been like over the moon. When he passed an exam. He’s been [00:31:25] down in the dumps when he’s failed an exam. He’s been in love on those roads. You [00:31:30] know, he’s been.

Moj Dehghanpour: Brings back the memories.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. He’s been scared as hell trying, you know, doing a new procedure [00:31:35] and all the different things that happen during a five year degree. Yeah. [00:31:40] And and you think of those emotions that are going through you because [00:31:45] you don’t know whether you’re going to even make it as a dentist. You don’t know. You might fail twice or whatever it be. Exactly. [00:31:50] Right. Yeah. So you look back at that with fondness.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, I mean, I yeah, [00:31:55] I.

Payman Langroudi: Look good or not. Uh, you pick it up easily.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, you asked me to. I think earlier [00:32:00] you were saying about, you know, was I. I wasn’t a great student up until, uh, and to be honest, [00:32:05] in A-levels, I didn’t really get the grades either. So, um, I wouldn’t particularly [00:32:10] say I was an amazing student.

Payman Langroudi: Um, I’m not talking great. Did you like it? Did you like it?

Moj Dehghanpour: Like I loved [00:32:15] it.

Payman Langroudi: You were treating patients. Were you, like, into it?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yes, I really liked it. And I still do. You [00:32:20] know, I if I hand on my heart. I’m not just saying this. If I were to go back in time, I [00:32:25] would still pick dentistry over anything else.

Payman Langroudi: Nice.

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, even though since [00:32:30] doing dentistry, my eyes have opened to other avenues. And, you know, we, [00:32:35] I think as dentists, we sometimes, or all dentists don’t realise that the world’s a lot bigger place than [00:32:40] just dentistry. Um, you know, and, um, but, but but still, [00:32:45] I would go back and do dentistry because I think really and truly, that’s, that is where [00:32:50] my strengths lie. Um, and, um, uh, [00:32:55] yeah. I mean, as a student, I was okay. Um, I wasn’t I wasn’t [00:33:00] the top of the year, but I wasn’t, you know, I was doing alright. I did quite well at university. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:33:05] that’s what you meant as well.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. So some con. Yeah. Shout outs to some is [00:33:10] uh, is obviously, you know, a good friend of mine now, uh, but at that time he was actually my oral surgery [00:33:15] tutor, and he was a force to be reckoned with. He still, you know, he still is. And, you know, [00:33:20] you wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of him, but honestly, he’s got a heart of gold, and I’ve got a lot of respect [00:33:25] for him. And he was he was actually one of my, in fact, probably one of my, my [00:33:30] very first Dental mentor, certainly with implants anyway. Um, [00:33:35] and I actually I’ve got a, I’ve got a WhatsApp group with him and, uh, another friend [00:33:40] of mine, Victor Ghani, and. Yeah, yeah, it’s another great guy and I [00:33:45] call it the, the groups called implant uncles, you know, because I call it my implant uncles.

Payman Langroudi: So was it quite [00:33:50] early on that you got exposed to implants? Was it in university you got exposed?

Moj Dehghanpour: No, not not No. University. [00:33:55] Um. It wasn’t it really wasn’t all. Back then, you know. You know, I qualified. 2007. [00:34:00] Yeah. So I’m in my 18th year now as a dentist. Um, so, but [00:34:05] I, I ended up in, in Norfolk, um, for my [00:34:10] PhD, uh, or as it was called back then, um, and, [00:34:15] um, you know, little market town called Dereham. Uh, East Dereham, um, [00:34:20] I think a population of around ten, 15,000 or something. Literally. Um, [00:34:25] busy NHS practice, you know, patients crawling through the windows. [00:34:30] You know, I remember one day, I think as a, as a vet or PhD, I [00:34:35] saw 44 patients in one day. Right. It was crazy. Um, [00:34:40] high demand, high treatment needs, etc.. But that gave me really good experience, right? Um, end [00:34:45] of my, uh, PhD year, I was I was really lucky, [00:34:50] I guess. And I got on well with my trainer And, um, he offered me partnership [00:34:55] into the practice, which I thought, wow. You know, I was like 23, 24, you know, years old. [00:35:00] All of a sudden, it’s sort of owning your own, well, at least a share of a business, right?

Payman Langroudi: And [00:35:05] so why do you think why do you think he did that? Did he recognise that you were kind of a force [00:35:10] to be reckoned with? Like, sometimes, you know, you get a young guy and you think if you’re [00:35:15] an older guy, you think I’ve got experience, he’s got energy. And together we can make something because [00:35:20] it seems like.

Moj Dehghanpour: I think there was a bit of that. I think there was a bit of that. Um, I [00:35:25] think, um, his I don’t necessarily [00:35:30] think his passion was in clinical dentistry as such. If I think [00:35:35] he’d probably say the same, I think, um, but he was another. So [00:35:40] adding on to the guys or girls who helped me along my communication journey. [00:35:45] So I’ve mentioned my dad. Another guy was a dentist called Majid [00:35:50] Tehrani.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s this guy?

Moj Dehghanpour: Who’s my feet? Trainer. Uh. And, [00:35:55] uh. So what did he.

Payman Langroudi: What did he teach you? What did he teach you about communication?

Moj Dehghanpour: So basically, [00:36:00] I mean, this is a type of dentist who, by his own admission, he wasn’t necessarily clinically the best dentist [00:36:05] in the world. Okay. He would keep patients waiting an hour. Not [00:36:10] intentionally, obviously, but he would run late all the time. He loved to talk. He loved to [00:36:15] laugh. You would constantly hear laughter from his surgery. And he had the front surgery. [00:36:20] And I was all the way down at the other end. You know, I was sort of, you know, bottom of the food chain, right, [00:36:25] of the PhD. Got the smallest room with no windows. Um, but [00:36:30] I could always hear Majid and his patients, like, absolutely cracking up right from [00:36:35] the other end. And I’m like. And I look in his diary on exact. I remember he said, look, it’s got like, [00:36:40] three patients waiting. What’s he doing? They all going to get pissed off, right? And you know, I would run [00:36:45] for five minutes. And he said, oh, you know, patients I’d get a little message come through on instant messaging. How much? How long are you [00:36:50] going to be? You know, it’s like, you know. But somehow he never got a complaint. [00:36:55] Ever.

Payman Langroudi: Patients would sit there.

Moj Dehghanpour: Absolutely loved him. Right. And, [00:37:00] um, he just had a way with with [00:37:05] patients and to keep them happy. And, you know, and, um, so I learned that very quickly [00:37:10] that actually clearly. And he’s, you know, he’s got a very loyal following. His patients [00:37:15] would only want to see him. Obviously, he’s been there for a while. So that that helps you naturally sort of, you know, [00:37:20] filter out patients and you sort of end up, you know, always that saying, you know, you end up with a list you deserve [00:37:25] or patients you deserve. And some of that is that basically over time, the ones who don’t like you or don’t [00:37:30] get on with your personality are filtered out.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting thing, what you’re saying here about the laughter. Yeah, because [00:37:35] I must have visited a thousand more dental practices. And there [00:37:40] are certain cues in a dental practice that make you think, oh, that’s interesting. Or [00:37:45] or the opposite, of course. Yeah, that’s not interesting. And for me, [00:37:50] the way you get the receptionist greets you. Yeah, yeah. You know, the first [00:37:55] time. The first. Of course. The first time you look around and see, you know, the cobwebs [00:38:00] on the ceiling. And yeah, that the people in the practice don’t see anymore. Yeah. Mhm. Um, but [00:38:05] then laughter. Laughter it’s such an interesting point. When I, if I go into a practice [00:38:10] and I hear laughter, whether it’s the team or much better still patients [00:38:15] and it’s a bloody good sign man. It’s a bloody good sign.

Moj Dehghanpour: I agree, I agree, I agree. [00:38:20] Um, and, and you know, sometimes I think [00:38:25] um, because I’m a bit loud as well, you know, and even with my patients and [00:38:30] stuff like that, you know, I sort of laugh and joke and sometimes, um, you know, um, you know, even [00:38:35] the guys, you know, I’ve got associates now I work with or perhaps when, when I had, when I was a [00:38:40] PhD trainer, you know, people were sort of a bit shocked as to sort of the [00:38:45] type of things, I’d say, or how I’d be around patients. Right. Um, but [00:38:50] I think I love that I picked up from, from from from him. Um, and it was, [00:38:55] you know, ultimately the people, you know, it’s yes, we are professional and yes, we’re here to provide a [00:39:00] service and yes, we are healthcare, but ultimately you’re dealing with another human being, right? Um, [00:39:05] and if you can take away all of that and just relate on a [00:39:10] human to human level, you, you build a much more stronger bond and [00:39:15] genuine relationship. And which is actually then, um, you know, [00:39:20] I’ve got patients now who have followed [00:39:25] me from other practices miles away, right miles away. And I didn’t even [00:39:30] there weren’t even long standing patients. I’d only seen him a handful of times, you know, but clearly something [00:39:35] happened within a very limited number of appointments. Right. That relationship was built. Now, clearly [00:39:40] I didn’t do it for everyone, but something happened.

Payman Langroudi: It comes naturally to you because of the way you you [00:39:45] were brought up, let’s say. But, you know, it’s weird how some people feel [00:39:50] like you’ve got to assert your authority as the dentist and to have a boundary [00:39:55] between you and the patient. And that totally for me, is such a massive error. I agree. [00:40:00] But then also the second thing, young dentists get this wrong all the time. Yeah, I don’t know about you, [00:40:05] but for me, when I talk to a bunch of different professionals all the way from SEO [00:40:10] specialist, all the way to corporate lawyer to some surgeon [00:40:15] who’s going to do something on my dad, let’s say one of the things that I trust the [00:40:20] most, one of the things that I respect the most, is when a professional says, I don’t know. Yeah, yeah, [00:40:25] but when you’re young, you think you can’t say that. You’ve got to have all the answers [00:40:30] and you’ve got to have all the answers there and then. Yeah, yeah. And that’s one thing where I, we know when you get the inkling that the [00:40:35] guy doesn’t know, but he’s saying that. Yeah that’s worse. March 1st hundred times worse.

Moj Dehghanpour: 100.

Payman Langroudi: Times worse 100 [00:40:40] times worse. I really respect it, and some of the top people I work with often say, I don’t [00:40:45] know. Yeah. And so the combination of what you said, the human connection. Yeah. And then [00:40:50] little things like this, you know, like of being authentic. Yeah. Is the [00:40:55] reason why some people follow you from practice to practice, you know.

Moj Dehghanpour: But also I think, you know, look, it’s, [00:41:00] um, I think, um, a lot of this also comes with experience.

Payman Langroudi: Of [00:41:05] course.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, how I am with patient, you know, I can go in and say the same [00:41:10] thing, you know, sometimes, you know, let’s say, uh, again, whether it’s the practice [00:41:15] now or in the past or PhDs, whatever, you know, they would they would come to me so [00:41:20] much. Can you just come in and sort of explain this to the patient or whatever, or give a second opinion kind of thing? I would go in [00:41:25] and maybe say exactly the same thing, but it’s how I’ve delivered it, with what [00:41:30] confidence? I’ve said it, you know, things like what you’ve alluded to, you know, just say if it’s not clear [00:41:35] or if we don’t know the answer to it, just say we don’t know. Simple as that. But I think I think. I think you’re [00:41:40] right. I think some of the, uh, more newly qualified dentists, [00:41:45] um, they feel like they, they. Because now they’ve got the BDS, [00:41:50] they’ve now like, you know, they must be seen as this oracle of wisdom when it comes to dentistry. [00:41:55] And actually, the reality is, you know, I only started learning about dentistry after I qualified.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, I think [00:42:00] 6 or 7 years.

Moj Dehghanpour: In all honesty, the game changer for me, where I think where [00:42:05] I can handle my heart, say, you know what? I felt like [00:42:10] a proper dentist where I knew what I was sort of talking about was actually after [00:42:15] I finished my MSC, which was in 20 1516, which is what.

Payman Langroudi: Nine.

Moj Dehghanpour: Nine years [00:42:20] post qualification? Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve done other I’d done other stuff before that, you know, courses [00:42:25] and qualifications and stuff like that, you know. So I think it was only then and [00:42:30] since then it sort of changed again, you know, sort of another nine years later. So that was halfway point. You know, I’m 18 [00:42:35] years in now.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re still probably learning every day. Right. Because you’re digital right now, you’re having to [00:42:40] relearn everything 100% for digital, 100%.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. For sure.

Payman Langroudi: So what happened with the practice in [00:42:45] Norfolk? So you partnered.

Moj Dehghanpour: There? Yeah. So partnership there. Basically we were there, [00:42:50] um, up until I was there full time. Um, you [00:42:55] know, because I was very much a city. London boy.

Payman Langroudi: Weren’t you worried? If [00:43:00] it was me, I would have been worried that I’m now laying down roots in Norfolk, whereas [00:43:05] I want I.

Moj Dehghanpour: Was worried, I was worried, and in all honesty, if you were to ask me, you know, if [00:43:10] you were to go back, would you change anything or do you have any regrets, anything [00:43:15] like that? I would possibly say that me [00:43:20] buying into that practice was a double edged sword. Yes. It [00:43:25] gave me a certain advantages. Yeah. Um, some of which, for example, [00:43:30] it gave me, uh, freedom of being able to go off and do whatever courses I wanted [00:43:35] to do because I didn’t have to worry about telling my principal, I need this amount of time off. I just took the time off. And when I did, [00:43:40] and I did loads of courses very, very early on, I jumped into implants. A year or [00:43:45] two after qualifications, I jumped into facial aesthetics. I jumped all that stuff very [00:43:50] early. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Were you always that surgeon type? Um. You [00:43:55] like blood?

Moj Dehghanpour: Not, I never was. I was never put off by blood. Um.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:44:00] seems a bit early to jump into it.

Moj Dehghanpour: But the thing is, bear in mind, I was working in Norfolk, right? I was working in Norfolk. [00:44:05] Uh, you know, you’ve got with that sort of, uh, the sort of the the common [00:44:10] stereotypes about Norfolk. You you, you know, loads of my patients [00:44:15] were very sort of average people. Some of them were [00:44:20] farmers. Oral health wasn’t, wasn’t necessarily top of their priority list, [00:44:25] let’s just say. And so spending money it will be on the NHS to, to sort of [00:44:30] keep teeth wasn’t again high on the list. Right. So. So [00:44:35] as a result and my trainer was possibly because of the environment, [00:44:40] he sort of was the same. You know, it was the same as well. So we did loads [00:44:45] of extractions. You know, I’d say I’ll never forget I told a patient once, I think I [00:44:50] did like an occlusal cavity or something. And I said, yeah, tooth needs a filling. And he’s like, oh no, I’m not going to pay. [00:44:55] I don’t know whatever at the time, whatever.

Payman Langroudi: £32.

Moj Dehghanpour: £30 or whatever to fill the tooth and then five [00:45:00] years later have to have root canal or a crown or extraction or whatever. And I was like, no, you could [00:45:05] have a filling. And then that could be it. For 20 years, I don’t know. No, no, no, no. Just take it out. [00:45:10]

Payman Langroudi: Oh my God.

Moj Dehghanpour: And I’m like, it just needs a little occlusal. I’m not. And I remember I’ll never forget. [00:45:15] And this is going back to what you’re saying about being having the confidence [00:45:20] of, uh, saying to someone I don’t know or, or equally importantly, [00:45:25] saying, no.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not going to do that.

Moj Dehghanpour: I’m not going to do it. I’m not going to break [00:45:30] my professional sort.

Payman Langroudi: Of Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah yeah. Boundaries. And you know what my opinion is? So I said [00:45:35] to the guy, you know what? And I’ve done this even recently as well with another patient. I said [00:45:40] I’ll temporarily fill the tooth for you for free. Don’t even pay me. It’s fine. [00:45:45] Okay. But I’m not going to take your tooth out. And then he was like, well, why don’t you just take it out? It’s fine. I’m not [00:45:50] going to. He was always like, listen, I’m not going to complain. I’m not going to sue you. I said, it’s not about that. I don’t think it’s [00:45:55] the right thing to do. So I’m not going to do it. You can find another dentist who’s going to do it for you if you want. So I remember I put a [00:46:00] bit of caveat or something like that in the tooth, and I said, see you later. Um, and [00:46:05] um, you know, that’s very, very important, right? You know, in terms [00:46:10] of, um, being having the strength and conviction to say no to someone as well, um. [00:46:15]

Payman Langroudi: I would have permanently filled it for free because he would have then gone [00:46:20] and shouted about you.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, you’re right, you’re right. Yeah, yeah, but I was, you know, I was.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:46:25] I get it, I get it.

Moj Dehghanpour: I get it.

Payman Langroudi: It’s just.

Moj Dehghanpour: So then NHS man, I had about five patients waiting.

Payman Langroudi: How [00:46:30] did you exit that situation?

Moj Dehghanpour: So anyway, we practice [00:46:35] in Norfolk. What happened was, um, I’d done my MSC Restorative [00:46:40] at Eastman. Um, and I wanted to do more and more private work. I wanted [00:46:45] to do. And I had this constant dilemma and battle, internal battle. [00:46:50] Every single patient that sat in front of me, the type of dentistry I want to do, the [00:46:55] type of dentistry I’m almost forced to deliver because of time, because of [00:47:00] materials, because of X, Y and z and money and all the rest of it, you know? So, um, [00:47:05] and hats off to anyone who can make the system work for them. I couldn’t. [00:47:10] Right. And so it’s something had to give. And what had to give was I had [00:47:15] to get out of the NHS. And so what I did was, um, I moved back down [00:47:20] to London part time. I was still doing a couple, two, three days. And so by the way, I was there [00:47:25] for a good eight years. I only ever stayed in eight years. One weekend [00:47:30] up there Fridays. No disrespect to Norfolk. Norfolk. Life. Um, [00:47:35] Friday afternoons. Come down to London, socialise, see [00:47:40] friends, family, blah blah blah. Sunday evenings go drive back. And I did that for eight years. Every single [00:47:45] weekend, bar one weekend I remember I think I’d like something, maybe like something to do with my MSC or [00:47:50] something. And um, I remember it clearly because it was a Wimbledon final as well. And I thought, you know what, let me just [00:47:55] stay there and do a bit of work and I’ll watch Wimbledon in peace and that’s it.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, uh, came back [00:48:00] down to London. I did part time, um, in practice, very close to here. [00:48:05] Um, didn’t like it. It was a mixed practice. Hated it there as well. [00:48:10] And I was like, look, I need to go fully private. You know, I’ve skilled myself, [00:48:15] I’ve invested, I’ve spent tens of thousands on this course, you know, over the last few years and [00:48:20] other courses. And so I need to, you know, I need [00:48:25] to get a job that allows me to happen. And I was looking at buying other practices and, you know, etc. and looking for associate [00:48:30] jobs, maybe. And as it happened, one of my friends who was living out in [00:48:35] Qatar said, oh, why don’t you come out here, you know, sun, sea, sand, tax [00:48:40] free, you know, all that stuff. He’s not a dentist, by the way. Well, um, and [00:48:45] you know what? And I’ve, I’ve got this sort of slightly sort of risk taker, [00:48:50] gambler type personality as well. I do take risks. And I have done throughout my [00:48:55] life I thought, you know what? Why not let me just go for it? You know, I’m looking at selling the practice anyway, [00:49:00] so moved out to went through the whole sort of process of [00:49:05] actually getting gained the qualification, doing exams, blah, blah, blah to be able to register there. And it was a, [00:49:10] you know, it was, it was a bit of.

Payman Langroudi: A sold.

Moj Dehghanpour: Not quite at that point. So this [00:49:15] is January anyway, I started the process of 2014, January 2015 [00:49:20] I moved out to Doha. Um, I sold the practice actually, 2016, [00:49:25] uh, to friends of mine, Jin and Kish, a small clinic [00:49:30] group. Uh, so I sold to them.

Payman Langroudi: So you met them first on the mosque?

Moj Dehghanpour: On my mosque? [00:49:35] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And also you.

Moj Dehghanpour: Sold. Yeah. So we were friends at this point. We. I started doing the mosque in 2012. [00:49:40] So five years after qualifying. Um, um, so [00:49:45] they bought the practice, and, um, that was it. You know, in Doha, I was doing [00:49:50] sort of fully private dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: What happened to the partner in North Norfolk?

Moj Dehghanpour: We all sold together. [00:49:55]

Payman Langroudi: What happened to him?

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, he stayed on.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, he.

Moj Dehghanpour: And his wife, actually. Yeah. And [00:50:00] then another partner as well. We all sold and.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Moj Dehghanpour: Sort of did their own thing.

Payman Langroudi: You get to Doha. The [00:50:05] exams were very difficult because there’s a bunch of people looking to move nowadays.

Moj Dehghanpour: Oh, man. I’ve got [00:50:10] I’ve got friends who’ve moved over the last year. Yeah. To Doha specifically. Um, [00:50:15] the exam I. To be honest, [00:50:20] I didn’t really revise for it. It was multiple choice at the time. I don’t know if it’s changed. I think it’s the same. [00:50:25] Still, uh, it’s all done in a sort of centre in London somewhere. And, [00:50:30] um, there were there were aspects to it because it’s sort of a, it’s very much like an American [00:50:35] Canadian type questions. You know, there were certain questions that I had absolutely no idea about. Even the terminology [00:50:40] was a slightly different. So but I sort of made educated guesses. And I passed first time, [00:50:45] you know, maybe I was lucky. I don’t know if I would be able to pass every single time. It wasn’t easy, but [00:50:50] it some of it was sort of.

Payman Langroudi: The one multiple choice paper.

Moj Dehghanpour: One, it was three hours, [00:50:55] I think one multiple choice from um, from memory. And then after that once, um, and then you had to do loads of stuff [00:51:00] to attest your paperwork and get your, uh, BDS transcripts [00:51:05] from the university and then take it to the embassy and get police checks and, you know, all that. [00:51:10] There’s sort of a few steps, uh, it took it took about six months to do. Um, [00:51:15] so January 2015, I moved there and I was there for about 20 months in. [00:51:20] It was actually the British Dental centre there.

Payman Langroudi: As.

Moj Dehghanpour: Owned by a owned by an English [00:51:25] lady who’d gone there 20 years ago.

Payman Langroudi: As an associate.

Moj Dehghanpour: As an associate. So I went as from [00:51:30] a partner to I mean, I was I did a bit of associateship in London as well for about.

Payman Langroudi: Was the [00:51:35] job in hand? Have you got the job before?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. So what in the process of. So how it works [00:51:40] is that in order to get your visa.

Payman Langroudi: You need a.

Moj Dehghanpour: Job. You need a job, you need a job offer.

Payman Langroudi: Aha.

Moj Dehghanpour: So [00:51:45] whilst I went to visit my friend, the very first time I was, I was there for a week [00:51:50] prior, maybe, I think a few days or a week before going. I googled all the practices in [00:51:55] Doha, send them all in a generic email with my CV and I think a portfolio. Um, [00:52:00] and I said, hey guys, you know, I’m going to be in town next week. Um, [00:52:05] if you’re looking for an associate from, from the UK, you know, British qualified, [00:52:10] um, you know, um, let’s sort of talk [00:52:15] um, and I got, I can’t remember how many emails I send, maybe 3040 emails to various [00:52:20] practices. And I’ve got, I think like three responses and all three of them gave me a job offer once they met me. Um, [00:52:25] and I ended up working in the practice I thought was the best one.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:52:30] how would you characterise it? Practising in Doha?

Moj Dehghanpour: Very different. Very different. [00:52:35] Um, it almost all virtually all insurance based for, [00:52:40] for for starters. And it’s a bit of a funny system because you sort of you’re, [00:52:45] you’re not paid on production as they call it. It’s very much Americanised. You know, [00:52:50] you’re paid on collection. So when the insurance company pays you get paid. Yeah. And that can take [00:52:55] sometimes six months. So you could do a crown now and get paid six months later for it, you know.

Payman Langroudi: And the price [00:53:00] is set by the insurance company.

Moj Dehghanpour: Prices. No, there were limitations. Obviously everyone’s got, you know, an allowance [00:53:05] but generally are quite generous a lot of the time. But you know and it does that [00:53:10] system does have advantages because you know patients then don’t for basic stuff are not they don’t [00:53:15] necessarily think twice about it if they need a filling. Okay, go and have it. If my insurance covers it, let’s get it done.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:53:20] mainly expats.

Moj Dehghanpour: 99% expats, I’d [00:53:25] say. Yeah, well, certainly over 90% expats. Um, we did have some Qataris as well, [00:53:30] some really high. It was a high profile clinic. So if, you know, I treated [00:53:35] some very high profile like royal family level, very close to the king [00:53:40] or the emir. Um, and, you know, it was good. I enjoyed. [00:53:45]

Payman Langroudi: Life in Qatar, like as a young man.

Moj Dehghanpour: It was a bit dull. It was a bit dull and, [00:53:50] and and you know, it was nice for the first six months, uh, in all honesty. And it was all very luxurious and everything [00:53:55] was like valet parking. And, you know, if anyone who’s been to Dubai and sort of places like this, sort of it’s [00:54:00] that similar kind of although Doha is much more quiet. Um, you know, first [00:54:05] time I wanted to I’ve been Dubai a lot. Um, the very first time I went to Dubai was [00:54:10] 1999. Doha sort of reminds me of [00:54:15] Dubai of the 90s, you know? I mean, because of the World Cup, obviously they built [00:54:20] and I did go back for the World Cup as well.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, because I had tickets [00:54:25] to Iran, England in the World Cup. Did you. Yeah. And um, so I went back and it was interesting. [00:54:30] You know, they’ve, you know, they’ve built loads of fancy really nice places, [00:54:35] shopping malls and restaurants and everything’s there. There’s just not enough people there, you [00:54:40] know. So you would go into a shopping mall and walk shop after shop after shop, and it would [00:54:45] just be a ghost town. It would just be these sort of. I felt so sorry for them. It’s just like people just standing there, the [00:54:50] workers and just waiting for almost begging you to come in just so they can talk to you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. You [00:54:55] know. Um, so it’s a it was a little bit, but it was really nice. And, you know, quality of life [00:55:00] was good, and, you know, it was it was easy and, you know, and um, um, [00:55:05] I did enjoy it. It was a good experience. I probably [00:55:10] wouldn’t go back myself. But I do know that I’ve got friends of mine, close friends of mine who’ve gone recently. [00:55:15] Uh, in fact, a couple of them have work in the same practice I did. Um, and [00:55:20] I know a few other people.

Payman Langroudi: Free.

Moj Dehghanpour: Tax free. They sort of, um, I’ve had people sort of, you know, [00:55:25] contact me on Facebook and stuff like that, and I’ve spoken to quite a few people over the years because I was probably, you [00:55:30] know, 2015 there wasn’t Qatar was not talked about.

Payman Langroudi: No.

Moj Dehghanpour: Nowadays [00:55:35] I think a lot more people talk about it. Um, so, um, I think over the years I’ve spoken to quite [00:55:40] a lot of people, sort of telling them how I did it, etc.. Um, but, you know, at the time [00:55:45] it was I guess it was a bit of a ballsy move to, to all of a sudden go from practice ownership [00:55:50] to, oh, I’ll be an associate in a foreign country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but listen, [00:55:55] it was a very nice clinic. Very nice clinic. I mean, I had panoramic views of the of the [00:56:00] Gulf.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you leave? Like, what was the main driver?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, like I said, I just [00:56:05] wanted to get out of the NHS.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you leave Qatar?

Moj Dehghanpour: Why did I? I just found it a bit [00:56:10] for multiple reasons. A it was. I just found it a bit dull and boring. I really, you [00:56:15] know, I’m quite a sociable person. I was homesick. I remember I came [00:56:20] back, um, I had a because obviously, uh, I had a meeting, I think, with my accountant [00:56:25] or something here, and he said, you know, you do realise you can’t really spend much more time here [00:56:30] because then because of the tax implications. And I realised I was very close to spending [00:56:35] 90 days here. And I was like, hold on, if I’m spending so much time here, what am I doing? You know [00:56:40] what’s something’s not quite right. And I remember every opportunity. I would just come back here. I wouldn’t even go on holidays [00:56:45] sometimes, you know. And, um, you know, if I were to go [00:56:50] back now, maybe with kids and stuff, it might be different.

Payman Langroudi: Um, were you single at the time?

Moj Dehghanpour: No, I was I was married, but [00:56:55] no kids, no kids. And my wife was bored, and she’s a pharmacist, and, you know, she she [00:57:00] was just, you know, I mean, we lived in a service department is almost like a five star [00:57:05] hotel, right? She didn’t even have to sort of clean up. Nothing. Nothing. Right? Her, her, [00:57:10] you know, one bit of excitement would like, you know, go down to the luxurious shopping mall [00:57:15] to buy some milk or something, you know, and it was literally connected to where we lived. Yeah, yeah. [00:57:20] Take the lift. Go down. It was connected straight into the mall. Um.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s funny. I’ve been there many [00:57:25] times. I’ve landed there many times, but I’ve never been out. Oh, right. Oh.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s nice. Listen, it.

Payman Langroudi: Looks [00:57:30] beautiful from from.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. It’s. The Corniche is beautiful. I mean, the skyline is [00:57:35] stunning. Um, and it is nice and people are nice, and, you know, quality [00:57:40] of life is amazing. There’s just not much going on. Okay. At least for me, [00:57:45] at that time, it just wasn’t happening. Okay. Um, and I went back in for the World Cup, [00:57:50] and I found I. I felt the same thing. It was like, loads of places, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t, you know, no [00:57:55] vibe. There’s no vibe. Um, and so, anyway, I it [00:58:00] was weird because I was back in the UK and the other reason I came back and this is answering your [00:58:05] question, was For? I missed the Dental circuit, right. [00:58:10] And in fact, it was interesting because one of the guys was probably, in fact, probably the closest [00:58:15] friend I had whilst I was out there was a guy who used to work in central [00:58:20] London, had a very successful practice in the West End, um, and he [00:58:25] had moved out there a few years before. And, um, we met on a [00:58:30] course out there and he sat next to me, and then we started talking and he was, oh, you’re from you’re from London, you know, and he was [00:58:35] from like, you know, um, from the West End. And we started talking and he had some eastern connections, and I’d [00:58:40] just done this MSC and, and we sort of gelled. He was at [00:58:45] the time, I think, 70, um, he’s probably [00:58:50] my oldest friend at the time. Probably still is. I haven’t spoken to him for a little while.

Moj Dehghanpour: So, des, if you’re if you do [00:58:55] see this, I hope you’re well. And, um, anyway, we got really, you know, really [00:59:00] well because of the density we both missed that, you know, sort of being almost disconnected [00:59:05] from the Dental wall. It was very different out there. Very different. Um, and, [00:59:10] um, so I used to come back for courses and I came back for. It was actually a digital dentistry show or something like [00:59:15] that. And whilst I was back, I was looking for jobs. Um, [00:59:20] and I was looking at moving to Dubai because I’ve got a lot of friends in Dubai. Most of my close friends over the years, they’re all [00:59:25] in finance and law. They’ve moved to Dubai from here. But Dubai wasn’t great, [00:59:30] financially speaking. It was. It’s not as because it’s so saturated. Yeah, right. [00:59:35] Um, so I was looking to come back here, and then I saw this advert [00:59:40] in the jobs section whilst I was here for this course. And [00:59:45] it was, it was a job in Kent. Right. I’d never even been to Kent up to this point. [00:59:50] Um, quite honestly. And, um, so I said, um, let me just check it [00:59:55] out. And the advert seemed really promising, and I checked the practice. I was like, oh, wow, this practice is phenomenal. Right. [01:00:00] It’s, um. So it’s a place called Hospital Lane Dental Implant Clinic out in Kent [01:00:05] was set up by a couple of guys, um, Tony and Richard, Tony [01:00:10] Auger and Richard Ebanks. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: Quite famous clinic.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, it’s I [01:00:15] would say there’s probably not many clinics. It’s now a Bupa practice.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:00:20]

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, I know you’ve had Mark Allen on here. Yeah. So Mark knows the practice. Well I’ve had [01:00:25] yeah. He’s been to hospital and we’ve had dinner and stuff like that. Is is pretty much [01:00:30] boopas or certainly flagship. Flagship is that and Brian Wallace really we’re sort of up [01:00:35] top of the tree and maybe the Wessex.

Payman Langroudi: So you’ve got a job there.

Moj Dehghanpour: I’ve got a job there. So I went for an [01:00:40] interview. I met with Tony.

Payman Langroudi: Did you know how to do implants by this point.

Moj Dehghanpour: I did, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, okay, I did.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. [01:00:45] So I started implants. Like I said, uh, 2000 I qualified 2007, did my [01:00:50] 2007, 2008. I probably jumped into implants. I was doing implants by 2009.

Payman Langroudi: What was [01:00:55] your training?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, so very [01:01:00] Not great initially. So, uh, so people [01:01:05] ask me now, you know, oh, how did you start your implant journey? And I said, listen.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t take advice from me.

Moj Dehghanpour: Don’t [01:01:10] take advice from me, because how I did it is not how you should do it. But what [01:01:15] I did was so 2009, as I said, I was a partner. Um, so I had clinical [01:01:20] freedom. I had had a bit of money to spend as well, you know, luckily at that time and I was spending [01:01:25] on courses, all my money was going on courses. Uh, I remember coming across this, [01:01:30] um, implant company called, um, Osteocare. I think it was [01:01:35] it’s a British company, I think, but some connections to Egypt and [01:01:40] anyway seemed good hands on experience in Egypt. And, you know, I think there’s some [01:01:45] courses now, some I think runs a course as well out there. It’s a lot more better structured and organised. [01:01:50] Um, and uh, it was actually, funnily enough, at the time of the [01:01:55] Icelandic ash clouds, I don’t know if you remember the volcano. Yeah, yeah. So I [01:02:00] booked this course out there because of the whole ash cloud thing. Everyone cancelled. [01:02:05] But the crazy Iranian and the crazy Iraqi delegate oday [01:02:10] again shout out to him. He’s a friend of mine. Uh, we were the only two who were nuts [01:02:15] enough to actually fly through the ash clouds and actually go to Egypt at that time. Everyone else on the course cancelled. So [01:02:20] as it happened, we turned up within, I’d say 45 [01:02:25] minutes of of start course day one. I’d probably [01:02:30] start. I went into surgery place. My first implant patient was already numbed up. The [01:02:35] guy who was doing it, uh, was like, okay, you [01:02:40] do the one on the right because we’re doing lower ball ball attachment, sort [01:02:45] of for for overdentures a day. You do the one on the left, you do on the right. Patients already numbed up. He’s like, okay, [01:02:50] flapless, no CT scan, nothing. It’s just like obg with ball bearings [01:02:55] to calibrate it. Drill.

Payman Langroudi: Back then it was more common.

Moj Dehghanpour: That’s how [01:03:00] it sort of was ish around there. You know, we’re talking basically [01:03:05] 16, 15, 16, 17 years ago. Um, so we did [01:03:10] it. Place ended up placing all the implants for the whole group because they had these patients lined up that [01:03:15] they just pulled off the street. Um, so we placed all the implants as well on top for.

Payman Langroudi: Quite [01:03:20] a lot.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. We’ve got good hands on experience, you know. I think I can’t remember how many we placed, but we placed more than what we [01:03:25] should have. And um, so anyway, we came back and thought, okay, Mr. [01:03:30] implant ologist. Doctor moj. Um, I had a patient at that point who’d been [01:03:35] a patient since the start of FDA, so I’d been seeing him for a couple of years now at this point, 2 or 3 years. Uh, it was [01:03:40] a really nice guy. He’s actually a solicitor and. But really nice guy. And, [01:03:45] um, he needed some implants. I thought, okay, I can do this now. I’ve been on a course. What could go [01:03:50] wrong? So, um, and this is [01:03:55] probably, if I were to. And [01:04:00] I’m going to almost pre-empt one of you because I have to watch this podcast. And I know you asked this question about one [01:04:05] of your clinical mistakes.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Let’s go.

Moj Dehghanpour: This is probably, uh, I [01:04:10] would say, the biggest clinical disaster [01:04:15] that I encountered.

Payman Langroudi: On a lawyer.

Moj Dehghanpour: On a lawyer.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, [01:04:20] so I thought this is module of 2009 [01:04:25] ten was a good idea to do a full NHS list. Nine till five. Get [01:04:30] this guy in at 5 p.m.. End of my day, as my very first implant [01:04:35] case ever in practice without a mentor by myself with [01:04:40] my nurse who wasn’t really fully trained, didn’t never seen, didn’t even seen an implant before.

Payman Langroudi: Of course.

Moj Dehghanpour: Not. [01:04:45] So I thought, okay, well, lunchtime, I think we set up the motor and the drill and, you know, I was like, yeah, I’ve got the [01:04:50] implants ready. And and I didn’t really go. I didn’t do things by halves. It didn’t go [01:04:55] easy. Like, you know, like an upper premolar or molar or something like that. Easy case. The anterior [01:05:00] zone. Immediate implant. Immediate. Immediate. Back then [01:05:05] was like, you know, sort of not unheard of. Upper left two, upper [01:05:10] left one and upper right three immediate. Now, anyone who does oral surgery [01:05:15] knows that upper canines sometimes can be bloody hard teeth to remove. You know, you’ve got these solid canines [01:05:20] with long roots. So anyway, I took the upper left. And to [01:05:25] this day and now, you know, in a tight gap with a central and lateral, I wouldn’t even place two implants all the time anyway. [01:05:30] But back then, I had three implants ready. I thought, okay, this guy’s paid for three implants. He’s going to free implants. [01:05:35] That’s how it works. So I took the two out, took the lateral [01:05:40] out, placed my first immediate thought. Oh, this is good. You know, this is happy days. [01:05:45] Then, uh, I went to place an implant next to it in the central position. [01:05:50] And as I’m sort of drilling and an implant going in. I’m like, hold on, there’s something not quite right here. [01:05:55] The sort of the threads of the screws are almost intertwining, right? I was like, okay, this isn’t [01:06:00] right now.

Moj Dehghanpour: So this clearly was you know, it’s horrific. Now I think about it. Right? [01:06:05] And I’m like, man, I’m so lucky to. Nothing happened. But [01:06:10] one thing I’ve always if I were to look back, think I sort of had [01:06:15] this a to a degree without blowing my own trumpet. I tried to [01:06:20] sort of have a strong moral compass when I’m doing treating patients, but [01:06:25] also know when something’s not right and it [01:06:30] just needs to kind of, uh, I need to sort of stop and do something else. Abort. Right. So [01:06:35] it’s like mission abort. I’d unscrew the implant, put it in the bin, and [01:06:40] then just closed up. Then I want to take out the upper right three. Take out the upper right three. As I’m taking [01:06:45] it out. It’s really long routes. And I had this big long six. It’s like 16 or 17 millimetre long implant [01:06:50] which I’d not really touched these days. No need. And I’m putting it in [01:06:55] as I’m putting it in. It was like really thin buckle, bit of bone on this canine. It’s normally quite thin plates [01:07:00] for those who do implants will know. And it was like I could just see the buckle bone. [01:07:05] Just like opening, like the gates of hell. Like an implant. Just like dropping [01:07:10] out of the jaw. Right? So.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re sweating.

Moj Dehghanpour: I’m, like sweating. My nurse [01:07:15] is looking, thinking. Hold on. This isn’t right, you know? So anyway, long story short, the guy came in [01:07:20] with three implants. I threw them that second implant in the bin as well. The guy paid for three. Uh, [01:07:25] well, he thought he was going to pay for three. He walked in, walked out [01:07:30] with one implant, and basically got a refund on the other two. And then I think I made him, like a temporary denture [01:07:35] or something like that the next day. And then I made him some bridges or something, and I fixed him and he was happy. And to the day [01:07:40] I left, everything was fine, but I got away with it. So then after that, [01:07:45] and I think I did 1 or 2 other cases, I thought, okay, this isn’t right. This isn’t going how it used to go in Egypt, right? [01:07:50] There’s all these problems. And then actually, I started.

Payman Langroudi: You don’t know what you don’t know.

Moj Dehghanpour: You don’t know what [01:07:55] you don’t know. Absolutely. It is 100% that right. And so and then that’s [01:08:00] when I got some involved. He was my first implant, basically my mentor after [01:08:05] my PhD trainer. And, um, and I got him involved and he [01:08:10] would come up to Norfolk and, um, you know, do a day with me and I’d have a, you know, 2 or 3 patients lined up, [01:08:15] and then you’d do the cases for me and then go back and, you know, amazing. And and then I did courses [01:08:20] and, you know, and then I did a diploma at the Royal College, you know, etc.. So it’s been a process and built [01:08:25] on it. Right. And then obviously I did the restorative MSC, I had an implant component, you know, etc..

Payman Langroudi: Can [01:08:30] you remember when you felt like I get it with implants and what was like, [01:08:35] what is it? What’s what’s what’s a key? Learning that made you.

Moj Dehghanpour: Think I don’t think I’ve, I [01:08:40] don’t you still.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t feel that. I don’t still feel.

Moj Dehghanpour: That way to be honest. Because you always get caught, you [01:08:45] know, as things go wrong And, you know, not that long ago I was I was placing an [01:08:50] implant and and actually, that was another clinical mistake. And I probably [01:08:55] talked a little bit more than I should have. An implant went into the sinus and then it was a, you know, it was, [01:09:00] it was then it was, oh, God, I’ve got to get the implant out the sinus and then sort of do a, cut a window [01:09:05] and get suctioned implant out and, you know, and again the nurses are looking at me thinking, oh God, [01:09:10] what have you done? You want to go, go, go to lunch. And, you know, okay. The good thing is, and [01:09:15] this is what I will tell anyone who’s getting into implants and to be honest, any dentistry or anything [01:09:20] really you’re bound to you’re obviously going to make mistakes. Things are going to go wrong. [01:09:25] Right? If, if, if they don’t, you’ve not done enough. That is the truth. And anyone who says [01:09:30] otherwise is either not telling the truth or or they’ve not done enough.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, but [01:09:35] it’s important to know how to manage the problems. And [01:09:40] if you don’t know how to manage, you should ask for help. And always be honest with [01:09:45] the patient. Okay? You have that duty. Let me say duty of candour [01:09:50] or, you know, etc. to be upfront and generally if you’re honest with people, you [01:09:55] know, with that guy I told him, I said, listen, I’m really sorry, but actually I want to place an implant [01:10:00] in your bone and actually end up in your sinus. Okay, I’ve got it out now. Luckily, it was fine and he was fine about it and he healed up. And [01:10:05] actually subsequently, I went and placed the implant and and he’s one of the cases, you know, I’m [01:10:10] really proud of actually, because we did a lot of work with him for over, over one and a half, two year period. [01:10:15] Uh, his full mouth. Um, but, you know, it’s it’s it’s [01:10:20] important to know when to say, okay, something’s not right and not just keep going [01:10:25] and digging that hole for yourself.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but okay. But what’s what’s a misconception that people have about implantology? [01:10:30] Like, for instance, I, I before talking to lots of people about [01:10:35] it, I used to think it’s, it’s about the implant and bone and all that, and then talking to a [01:10:40] lot of people about it, it turns out that prosthetics that the, you know, knowing [01:10:45] what the teeth end up as is as important as the implant, [01:10:50] the bone, for sure. And then there’s the suturing side and the emergence profile side. And there’s [01:10:55] so much to it. Right?

Moj Dehghanpour: There’s so much. I mean, look, the reality is this, like most things in life, it’s [01:11:00] there’s so.

Payman Langroudi: Much.

Moj Dehghanpour: More.

Payman Langroudi: Complicated.

Moj Dehghanpour: More complex, you know, um, my, uh, you [01:11:05] know, I’ve had this chat with my, uh, I’ve got a business partner in the practice at your [01:11:10] dental wellness, and, um, he’s not a dentist. Um, and, uh, I’ve always sort of [01:11:15] spoken to him about how, um, you know, he was from a completely [01:11:20] different line of work. He was in sort of fab and, you know, restaurants and cafes and stuff. [01:11:25] And I was just, oh, man, you guys are so easy. You just make teas and coffees [01:11:30] and whatever. Give them some cupcakes and whatever, you know? And, uh, he was [01:11:35] like, you know, you haven’t got a clue about business much, you know, um, because you don’t understand what goes [01:11:40] into a business. If you’re if you’re going to say that to me and it’s so true, you [01:11:45] know, um, it’s implants. Similarly. Yes. Classically, generally [01:11:50] they use there was this thing of, uh, tissue is the tissue and bone [01:11:55] sets the tone. And it was all very much bone driven implant dentistry and these days is a lot more [01:12:00] aesthetically driven. But the truth of it is it’s a combination of all those things. You know, it’s never one [01:12:05] single aspect, right? It is the bone, it is the tissue, it is the prosthetics, everything. Right. And you’ve [01:12:10] got to in order to be a if, if I were to sort of, uh, make up the perfect implant [01:12:15] dentist, I would say they probably need to have very good periodontal knowledge.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yes. [01:12:20] We obviously competent surgically, but also be a very good, uh, [01:12:25] restorative slash prosthodontist. That is the truth of it. And, you know, I know in the [01:12:30] States they have implant perio prosthetic programs, which are quite long and they’re, [01:12:35] you know, the guys I’ve seen some of the work that some of those guys are phenomenal. Phenomenal because they are then, [01:12:40] um, sort of they can see all those issues and facets at play. Right? [01:12:45] Um, and it was interesting not that long ago. Um, it [01:12:50] was um, at a, um, it was at the Dentinal Tubules conference [01:12:55] Congress, uh, the one that just went, um, there was a speaker there [01:13:00] I met who I probably, I would say. Quite [01:13:05] possibly the best all round dentist I’ve ever seen. [01:13:10] This guy called Guido Fichera. Um, phenomenal. Phenomenal, [01:13:15] right. The guy is just, you know, absolute phenomenal dentist and clinician. And he’s he’s a prosthodontist, [01:13:20] he’s a periodontist and he’s an orthodontist. He’s got all three specialities [01:13:25] under his belt. Right. I clearly must have no life outside of dentistry. Um, but [01:13:30] phenomenal. And but that’s you know, it’s crazy.

Payman Langroudi: You mentioned your partner [01:13:35] in your current business?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s not a dentist? Yeah. Why [01:13:40] did you partner with not a dentist? Or why did you partner? Did you need his money? His skills? [01:13:45] His.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, okay. So basically, the story with him is that, you know, I’ve [01:13:50] known him for, uh, 20 odd [01:13:55] years, uh, since beginning of uni. Um, so over 20 [01:14:00] years now, probably. I’ve known him and we met socially, you know, um, whilst we were, we [01:14:05] were at uni, and, um, he’s not a dentist. He’s his background. He did a sort [01:14:10] of a marketing sort of degree or something like that. Um, he [01:14:15] never really used it directly, at least. Um, and, um, he, [01:14:20] as I say, he was in sort of food and beverage and sort of that kind of that line of [01:14:25] work and, and anyway, fast forward a number of years and we used to sort of meet up socially [01:14:30] and stuff like that. And um, uh, he, he wanted to [01:14:35] He always used to say how much I would love to sort of get into healthcare and open a. Can we just open a dental [01:14:40] practice together, please? You know, blah, blah, blah. And I’d like a sort of a stable business, you [01:14:45] know. Um, and I was I was always like, yeah, okay. Yeah. But [01:14:50] what do you know about the industry? You know, you know, kind of thing. And then anyway, fast [01:14:55] forward to about 2019, he sort of we had the chat a bit more seriously [01:15:00] a few times. And I was like, you know what? I’ve known him a long time.

Payman Langroudi: Trust him.

Moj Dehghanpour: I trust [01:15:05] him. He’s a nice guy. We get on really well and [01:15:10] he’s quite a yeah, he’s quite an intelligent guy when it comes to business and [01:15:15] stuff. And, um, um, so [01:15:20] I was like, okay, fine, let’s let’s go for it. We found a practice in London that, um, [01:15:25] someone I knew used to work in. Seemed like a really good opportunity. Uh, [01:15:30] we were going to. It was a mixed practice, but a lot of private potential. Uh, we were going to buy. [01:15:35] We didn’t agree on price with the seller. Okay. Um, this was late [01:15:40] 2019. It still fell through. End of story. [01:15:45] Uh, two weeks later, he sort of. I remember we went to. We went out for a coffee [01:15:50] or whatever. We sat down and he was like, okay, I’ve got something else for you. And I said, what is it? [01:15:55] And he said, what do you think about investing in a car wash? I was just like, [01:16:00] hold on. Literally 2 or 3 weeks before this, we were about to spend, [01:16:05] I don’t know, it was like 2 or £3 million buying this big practice right together. [01:16:10] And then now you’re telling me this? And he was like, no, no, just hear me out. So anyway, [01:16:15] we spoke, um, initially I was just sort of laughed and, um, and then when he, as he [01:16:20] spoke and spoke and spoke and we looked at the numbers and I thought, you know what? Uh, [01:16:25] relative to a dental practice is like a, like, insignificant investment. He [01:16:30] was happy to run it, so he didn’t really require that much time. At least [01:16:35] at least what I thought initially anyway. Um, so. And as I said to you, I’m [01:16:40] a bit of a gambler slash risk taker. I thought, you know what? Let me just go for it. Why not? So [01:16:45] I went through sort of the process and 10th [01:16:50] of January 2020, we were the owners of [01:16:55] this car wash business with 4 or 5 car washes across London.

Payman Langroudi: Five car washes. [01:17:00]

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. So, uh, four, four car washes. Uh, [01:17:05] quite a big operation. One of them’s 24 hours, you know, so it’s quite a big operation. Um, anyway. [01:17:10]

Payman Langroudi: So half of that business.

Moj Dehghanpour: I own half, 50% of this business, and. Yeah. [01:17:15] And, uh, you know, he was running it, and he took, like, a little sort of management sort of [01:17:20] car and, you know, etc. and I thought, you know, I was sort of silent partner that’s that, you know, I’d help [01:17:25] out. And then, um, uh, obviously a couple of months later, [01:17:30] Covid hits.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: So I was we’re both like, oh my God. We just [01:17:35] put, okay, we’re not going to go bankrupt. But it’s you know, it’s a reasonable amount of money. [01:17:40] We’ve just sunk into this business two months in lockdown, the works. And so then [01:17:45] I think, uh, and we had a lot there was a lot of overheads going out. Right. It’s it’s [01:17:50] quite a big operation.

Payman Langroudi: How many people.

Moj Dehghanpour: There’s about, uh, [01:17:55] I don’t know about at that time, but we probably had about probably I’d say about 70, [01:18:00] 80 people on payroll. Right. Big operation. It’s a big operation. Um, [01:18:05] and there’s a lot of contracts, and, you know, this and that. And [01:18:10] so we had to get one of these cbils loans out, you know, at the time, there were Covid loans to keep us [01:18:15] afloat because there’s the money just coming out and nothing coming in because of the lockdown. Right. And [01:18:20] anyway, once lockdown finally ended, we can open again. Uh, [01:18:25] the other problem we had is like staff, and it’s he’s like, you know, we had all these European staff that come back, [01:18:30] you know, and then they were stuck or they couldn’t come back or didn’t want to come back because they were worried about [01:18:35] Brexit at that point, you know, all this kind of stuff. So um, anyway, so [01:18:40] doctor, doctor moj when Monday to Thursday doing [01:18:45] all on fours and implants and full mouth rehabs in a in a fancy referral [01:18:50] clinic. Hospital lane. Hospital Lane. Yeah. You know to on [01:18:55] when I, when I was at Hospital Lane. So I started in 2016 and I properly left [01:19:00] uh, actually just the last this this last December was my final day there. Um, [01:19:05] I was I only ever did four days when I was working, and [01:19:10] so Fridays was my day off to catch up with life. And I do feel like that’s a good.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:19:15]

Moj Dehghanpour: Good number of clinical days, especially if you’re doing sort of heavy clinical work.

Payman Langroudi: Agreed.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, and [01:19:20] actually, I think it’s, it’s, um, it’s it’s probably, I’d say more productive than doing five days in [01:19:25] some ways because you sort of feel a bit more fresh and, um, so Friday, Saturday, Sundays, [01:19:30] me and my friend were washing cars, doing mini valets. [01:19:35]

Payman Langroudi: Because you just couldn’t get the teams because.

Moj Dehghanpour: We somehow this operation had to run. Right. So, [01:19:40] you know, I don’t know if I’ve showed you the videos, but I’ve got videos of me and him jet washing cars and washing cars. [01:19:45] And, you know, there’s sort of the customers sort of looking at me and thinking, this guy doesn’t [01:19:50] look like your average carwash bloke, you know? And, um, and, you know, a couple of times, [01:19:55] you know, I would say, oh, you know, you move, move across or whatever, you know, you’re holding up [01:20:00] the queue. And then they would turn around and say, who are you? You know, who are you? Tell me. You know, I’ve been coming to this carwash for ten [01:20:05] years. I’ve never seen you here. And obviously I would never want to say, yeah, but actually the owner. So, [01:20:10] I mean, listen, it was. What are.

Payman Langroudi: Your.

Moj Dehghanpour: What are your.

Payman Langroudi: Reflections [01:20:15] around the carwash business as a business.

Moj Dehghanpour: As a. Well, just generally.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Is [01:20:20] it similar to any other business like is dentistry similar to a car [01:20:25] wash. Of course.

Moj Dehghanpour: Listen, any business has its own stresses and difficulties, [01:20:30] right? Um, so anyone who thinks and this is going back to say anything, [01:20:35] one of the things any business is easy. They’re either stupid or naive.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:20:40]

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Um, no. Business is easy. No, successful business is easy. You know, there’s that [01:20:45] there’s that sort of famous e-myth book about entrepreneurs. You know, I think it’s like [01:20:50] one out of, you know, it’s like, what was it like 60% of businesses fail within [01:20:55] the first year. And then, you know, eventually after five years or ten years, there’s only like 10% or 20% survive. [01:21:00] Right. Um, because of that whole sort of entrepreneur slash technician scenario where [01:21:05] people think, oh yeah, I’m a great dentist, I can run my own practice, or I can, I know how to wash cars, I can run a [01:21:10] car wash or whatever. Um, it doesn’t work like that. Every business has got its [01:21:15] own challenges. It’s a very different set of challenges. Yeah. Granted. Um. And [01:21:20] you’re, Um. It’s not easy. It’s very difficult. It’s very challenging. [01:21:25] Different, varying, sort of. You know, we’ve had some weird stuff happen, you know, [01:21:30] with, with, um, you know, in the car washing some funny stories, but it [01:21:35] it’s, um, uh, I enjoyed it. I don’t regret it one [01:21:40] bit. Um, and it’s so different to dentistry. I loved [01:21:45] it, it was it’s like a release, right? Because I could almost, you know, truly be myself. [01:21:50] You know, you can shout, you can swear, you can, you know, and you don’t have to be all sort of maintain [01:21:55] that completely professional sort of front. Um, and um, [01:22:00] and so it almost like was like a release for me. I actually loved it. You know, people say, oh my God, I can’t believe you [01:22:05] were like, you’re standing there getting all like, you know, wet and muddy.

Payman Langroudi: I can understand [01:22:10] how it’s something different, but, you know, owning it is a whole different matter, right?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Owning is different matter. It is. It is different. [01:22:15] Right. Um, so.

Payman Langroudi: So then at what point did you get to actually owning a dental practice with [01:22:20] this guy.

Moj Dehghanpour: So then so then obviously this situation was continuing. I was still at Hospital Lane.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, [01:22:25] and, and then sort of help out on weekends and whatever. I mean, that was a rough period. It [01:22:30] lasted about a year or so, and then it sort of things started running smoothly. And to be honest with you, he [01:22:35] managed to turn a loss making business and plus Covid [01:22:40] complete and Brexit completely sort of demolishing that sector really, [01:22:45] along with like retail and other leisure places into actually a business that’s, [01:22:50] that’s doing well.

Payman Langroudi: So he’s he’s a smart operator.

Moj Dehghanpour: Smart operator. Um, and he’s [01:22:55] a very interesting guy. You know, he because he’s we always have this [01:23:00] sort of, um, you know, I, I laugh because he again, he came [01:23:05] from very humble backgrounds and, you know, he’s, you know, sort of again, [01:23:10] wasn’t born here, came in the 90s, actually. And, um, he’s [01:23:15] quite heavily dyslexic as well. Right. And, um, and, uh, [01:23:20] but somehow he just when he looks at numbers and patterns and [01:23:25] he can analyse things differently to how I can and most other people. Right. And that’s [01:23:30] where his strength lies and, and obviously, I, I know that now to [01:23:35] be honest, I didn’t necessarily know it at the time we went into partnership.

Payman Langroudi: So is he involved in that side of [01:23:40] the Dental business as well? Yes. So he’s the sort of the the yes. He helps with CFO kind [01:23:45] of.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He does a lot of that. He helps with a lot of the sort of the, the, [01:23:50] the, the sort of, uh, business aspects and sort of marketing and numbers and stuff [01:23:55] like that. And he’s, you know, he does a lot of stuff that most dentists don’t like [01:24:00] doing. Right? Because we want to be clinical and stay in our surgeries. Right? Yeah. Um. [01:24:05]

Payman Langroudi: So Dental wellness. Yeah. We’ll go on. Do you have something else?

[TRANSITION]: I was just I was just [01:24:10] going to say.

Moj Dehghanpour: So I was going to talk about your dental.

Payman Langroudi: Well, your dental wellness. When I look at it, [01:24:15] I’ve walked past it by mistake once. I was like, oh my goodness. Yeah. [01:24:20] Beautiful. Um, beautiful. Thank you. Beautiful place.

Moj Dehghanpour: I mean, to be honest, [01:24:25] the something I’m really proud of and, you know, people have commented on [01:24:30] it and yeah, you know, we it was a complete shell. It [01:24:35] was an old Bang and Olufsen showroom.

Payman Langroudi: Is that what it was? Yeah. Oh.

Moj Dehghanpour: Complete shell. We had to gut it out completely. [01:24:40] And, um, and I’ve had quite a few people ask me. Oh, yeah? Who was your interior designer? [01:24:45] Who was your architect and whatever. We didn’t actually have one. Um, we it was inspired [01:24:50] by, uh, a video of a spa we saw [01:24:55] in Dubai, um, and also partly Apple Store in [01:25:00] Oxford Street, Regent Street. Um, that’s sort of the colourings and the sort of neutral tones and stuff. [01:25:05]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I can feel that. Yeah, I can feel that.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, and that was the vibe we wanted to go to. But equally, we wanted to keep it professional [01:25:10] in the surgeries. It’s sort of quite bright and. Yeah, um, a lot of it was, [01:25:15] was down to my partner. Um, you know, we liaise and, [01:25:20] you know, the good thing is, because I’ve worked in different places and, you know, this isn’t this is, you know, when people look [01:25:25] at something, they think, oh, it’s easy or it’s, you know, it’s happened overnight. It didn’t happen overnight. The [01:25:30] truth is, your Dental wellness didn’t happen overnight. It’s probably a combination of, for him, 20 years [01:25:35] of running business, various businesses, etc. and for me, working in different environments Norfolk, [01:25:40] Kent, Kentish Town and Doha and, you know, places [01:25:45] like that and taking sort of little nuggets.

Payman Langroudi: The process of finding the place [01:25:50] and all that. I, you know, I’m sure you must have looked at loads of different shops and things and then [01:25:55] doing it up, all the normal issues people have with doing places up. Did you have all those, I guess, right. But [01:26:00] then inevitably I’m interested in day one or maybe pre day one [01:26:05] where you start shouting about it. There’s no patience is there? So the process of [01:26:10] getting patients for a squat to the point of, you know, it’s obviously loss making on day one to [01:26:15] the point of profit. Yeah, that must be a real painful journey. It is. Tell [01:26:20] me some of the tactics you use to get patients.

Moj Dehghanpour: I mean, we look, we we knew I [01:26:25] mean, I know there’s practices out there, and I know I’ve spoken to a few people in the past who’ve somehow [01:26:30] managed to open practices with a load of patients, [01:26:35] you know.

Payman Langroudi: Get people to pre-register.

Moj Dehghanpour: Pre-register and stuff like that. And we, we reality is we [01:26:40] did a bit of that and we had like QR codes outside the practice. And, you know, on the shop front when there were people [01:26:45] are working and stuff like that. But and we did open day one with a few patients. [01:26:50]

Payman Langroudi: That you brought from other practices.

Moj Dehghanpour: No, no, no, they just they had registered people registered.

Payman Langroudi: Registered.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. [01:26:55] Using that QR code or, you know, or the sort of their landing page that was up.

Payman Langroudi: From [01:27:00] day one. Had you already kitted it all out for.

Moj Dehghanpour: So it’s so currently [01:27:05] and actually today the fourth surgery’s gone in literally today I was sort of [01:27:10] there. Um, uh, we started with two. So we started with [01:27:15] dentists and hygienist. Now, when I started it, I never, to be honest with you again, going back [01:27:20] to that sort of technician, operator, entrepreneur, sort of. I never wanted your dental wellness [01:27:25] to be about me. Okay. Uh, as much as I love doing [01:27:30] dentistry, and I very much consider myself still as a dentist. Yeah. Um, I didn’t [01:27:35] want it to be about me, because bear in mind, when we. So when we opened, I was seeing patients Mondays [01:27:40] and Fridays. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays. I was actually at Hospital Lane.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Moj Dehghanpour: Okay. For for about a [01:27:45] year. Um, I’m not saying necessarily that’s the best way of doing it, but that’s how [01:27:50] I had to do it for cash flow reasons and all the rest of it. Right. Um, and [01:27:55] now it’s I’m full time. Okay. Because I stopped Hospital Lane pretty much September last [01:28:00] year. Um, and, um, so I still only see patients two days [01:28:05] or one and a half day, and then the other days, I’m sort of helping manage and grow the business. So [01:28:10] working on the business rather than in the business as that. But yeah. Okay. [01:28:15] So and the truth of it is, um.

Payman Langroudi: It’s still very early days. [01:28:20]

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s still early days. We’re open July 2023.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: The fourth surgery is [01:28:25] gone today. We are opening a second site, uh, in, uh, in London as well. [01:28:30]

Payman Langroudi: So that’s a bit early, isn’t it, to do that?

Moj Dehghanpour: It is, but, um.

Moj Dehghanpour: I [01:28:35] know that area well.

Payman Langroudi: Meadville.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Made about, um. And I [01:28:40] think there is a.

Payman Langroudi: The opportunity was too good to miss.

Moj Dehghanpour: That opportunity was too good. Yes. You know, sometimes, you [01:28:45] know, your opportunity presents itself and you just got to. Sometimes you just got to go for it. Right. And and the truth of it is, [01:28:50] look, again, like any other business you start up, no one can say 100%. And, [01:28:55] you know, I know you’ve had guys on here who’ve got many corporates and corporates [01:29:00] and dsos and stuff, who’ve got multiple practices. And for example, I listened to a really [01:29:05] good podcast by Kunal now looks like a tooth club and and I know he’s got a whole team and set up, [01:29:10] but I’m sure even Quinn will tell you. You know, he never really know how a business [01:29:15] or practice is going to go when you set it up right. 100%. No one knows, right? It’s a business, right? There’s an [01:29:20] element of risk. But, you know, you do your homework. Uh, I know the area. Well, I [01:29:25] grew up. I spent 30, 40 years within a short distance of that [01:29:30] area. There’s not that many practices there. Um, so [01:29:35] we’ve done the homework on that on that side. And, um, you know, I think, I think [01:29:40] our branding and, um, the sort of clientele we’re going for, [01:29:45] it fits within the demographic of that area.

Payman Langroudi: Um, what is the positioning? [01:29:50]

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, so I think we’re we’re quite a, um, I mean, we’ve got [01:29:55] we’ve got quite.

Moj Dehghanpour: A clean, modern looking brand. Um, the name, [01:30:00] to be honest, I came up with myself. Um.

Payman Langroudi: But positioning is in.

Moj Dehghanpour: Terms. [01:30:05]

Payman Langroudi: Of as in what end of the market is it? How far up.

Moj Dehghanpour: Or down we’re [01:30:10] not? I wouldn’t say we’re we’re sort of Uber you know, Uber premium high [01:30:15] end levels of private industry looks pretty good. It it does look premium but but you [01:30:20] know if you’re if you’re trying to and again I know sort of listening to Kunal’s uh [01:30:25] pod you know he mentioned you know you’ve got to you’ve got to you’ve got to hit a bit of a sweet spot [01:30:30] if you want to grow at a reasonable rate. You know, there’s, it’s it’s too risky to [01:30:35] try and aim for that 1% of the Uber wealthy who can afford your fees? Yes. [01:30:40] At Hospital Lane, I was actually charging a lot more than I am now for for for the [01:30:45] work I do. Same work. I actually use the same technician still. Okay. Uh, thanks [01:30:50] to digital just goes across. Right? Except before it was just the guy upstairs. Because [01:30:55] it’s got an on site lab there. Um, so, you know, um, [01:31:00] but but if I were to price myself at that in that bracket. [01:31:05] You know, we’re we’re a practice that’s been open for a year and a half, right. Or just over a year and a [01:31:10] half. Can’t compete with practice being in Kent without a practice in that local vicinity [01:31:15] for 20, 30 years. Right. So and London’s obviously we know it’s very competitive [01:31:20] and, you know, saturated. Right. You know in in Islington where we open within [01:31:25] a 15 minute walk radius, there’s eight practices right. Including [01:31:30] a huge, for example, Dental beauty, 16 surgeries. I think it’s like one of the probably the biggest one, the [01:31:35] big one. Yeah they’re massive. They’re big one. Right. And and about 6 or 7 practices on the [01:31:40] same road. We’ve got Bupa ones around the corner. We’ve got other sort of squats and.

Payman Langroudi: Positioning is an [01:31:45] interesting thing.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s a difficult.

Payman Langroudi: One because because, you know, health and beauty aren’t price sensitive [01:31:50] in the same way as commodities are.

Moj Dehghanpour: They’re not. They’re not. But listen. [01:31:55]

Payman Langroudi: I’m not I’m not saying anything about where to position yourself because no no no no no there are different positions [01:32:00] to go in. Yeah yeah, yeah, I get what you’re saying about the. You don’t want to be right at the top of [01:32:05] the thing. Yeah. Um, at the same time, you don’t want to be at the bottom.

Moj Dehghanpour: No you.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t.

Moj Dehghanpour: So we price [01:32:10] ourselves somewhere, I would say, in the somewhere between the middle [01:32:15] and higher end.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So in the Waitrose, Marks and Spencer department. Yeah, yeah. And my [01:32:20] point though on it is, my point on it is, you know, you know as well as I do here that it’s [01:32:25] about trust more than anything. Yeah. No 100% like let’s say I’m a member of [01:32:30] the public. I walk into the practice, I meet you. Yeah, I trust you. Yeah. If your [01:32:35] only is £950 compared to if your only is £650, [01:32:40] I still have to trust you to give you my 650. I’ve got to trust that you can [01:32:45] pull this off. Yeah, yeah. It’s not like. Oh, now I’m thinking, do I trust him to 950 [01:32:50] instead of do I trust him to 650? You know what I mean? It’s it’s not it’s not price [01:32:55] and and volume in the way that people think of, I don’t know, some some piece [01:33:00] of, uh, electronics.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And so deciding where [01:33:05] to pitch yourself. It’s kind of interesting thing because you’ve made it look state of the art. Yeah. [01:33:10] And maybe that’s part of the fun of it, right? Because you look at it, you think, wow, that looks nice, [01:33:15] by the way. Put off a number of people because of because because of how nice it looks. [01:33:20]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And there’s this other group of people who come in expecting to pay loads and loads and might [01:33:25] be quite, you know, surprised by the price. So all I’m asking is, was it on purpose or by mistake? You know, like, [01:33:30] um.

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, look, the the reality is, if we are starting, uh, [01:33:35] I completely agree. But ultimately the price two [01:33:40] degree does matter.

Payman Langroudi: Of course it does. Of course.

Moj Dehghanpour: It does. So, you know, if I take the same practice, [01:33:45] put it in a different area, which maybe is not as affluent, for example, [01:33:50] I’m not saying Islington is fairly affluent. You know, it’s got a mixed crowd. You know, it’s got some very affluent people.

Payman Langroudi: For instance, [01:33:55] are you going to charge more in Maida Vale than in Islington?

Moj Dehghanpour: The fees will be different.

Payman Langroudi: Oh they.

Moj Dehghanpour: Will. Yeah. You look at [01:34:00] the area and then you price accordingly. Yeah, right. Certain things we might price the same. Certain things will [01:34:05] change. Right. I think our fees are reasonable for the area we’re in where we are in Islington. [01:34:10] And there will probably be reasonable for the area in Maida Vale. But it will probably be [01:34:15] higher than what they are in Islington. Okay. Because the area is different. It costs a lot more and costs. Yeah, exactly. [01:34:20] I think that’s that’s fine. In terms of where we positioned it. So I knew we didn’t [01:34:25] want to be too low because that’s not our brand. It doesn’t. And to be honest with [01:34:30] you, um.

Payman Langroudi: That’s not what you’re good at.

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, I, you [01:34:35] know, when when I first opened the practice, I sort of met up with all the guys in the practice [01:34:40] that I’d recruited, all the dentists that sort of the day or two before, um, and [01:34:45] son had showed him around, and actually, we went for dinner, and I thought it was a nice way of sort of, [01:34:50] uh, sort of people to meet because they all work on different days and we’ve got a shift system and, you know, etc.. So we’ve got [01:34:55] quite a large team. Um, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s about, I think 17 [01:35:00] or 18, uh, dentists from day one virtually. Right. [01:35:05] I had on a, on a sort of a shift based system, you know, obviously including all the special we’ve got all the specialists in house. [01:35:10]

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, and, and yeah, some people thought, what’s going on? Whenever I tell people, [01:35:15] you know, at that time we only had two surgeries, but we had like 18 people on our website, but we genuinely it wasn’t [01:35:20] made up. We genuinely had those people working. But it’s just the practices.

Payman Langroudi: One day a month.

Moj Dehghanpour: The practice is open seven days a week. [01:35:25] Yeah, we’re open 8 to 8, Monday till Thursday, extended hours and it’s a [01:35:30] bit of a shift system that’s happening okay. And obviously the specialists are they come as and when sort of we need [01:35:35] we need them. And now as they get busier sort of regular days. So [01:35:40] um, uh, in regards to the, the [01:35:45] sort of the pricing strategy I knew our brand was we’ve got all the specialists in-house. We [01:35:50] are a quality brand. And when when the guys came in, they were like, oh, like, how much? You know, the practice is really [01:35:55] nice. And I said, what do you guys think? You know, because it was like, okay, I’d sort of part owned the [01:36:00] practice before, but this was like my baby. We started from scratch. It was different, right? I was actually a bit nervous [01:36:05] about what do others think?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s always like it’s normal, right. So [01:36:10] and one, you know, one of the, one of the guys, one of the dentists said to me, he was like, oh, it’s clear [01:36:15] you didn’t cut any corners, right? And I said, you know why? Because I [01:36:20] built this practice for me to work in. It’s a little bit like if you build a house for [01:36:25] yourself versus a buy to let. Yeah, the carpet’s different. The furniture might be from Ikea [01:36:30] versus, I don’t know, whatever John Lewis or something, you know. Uh, and so that’s [01:36:35] that’s what it was. I genuinely did it for me to work in. And I’d worked in an amazing practice in, [01:36:40] in Kent Hospital. And I worked in a really nice practice in, in Doha. And so [01:36:45] I took sort of various aspects from these, you know, you know, it sort of amazes me, for example, to this day [01:36:50] when Patients come in and say, oh, wow, you’ve got TV on the ceiling. It’s like, really? I’ve had a [01:36:55] TV on a ceiling for the last ten years, literally in Doha. Right. I had a TV in the ceiling from then [01:37:00] and in Kent. It’s like, I don’t I don’t think that’s new, but but [01:37:05] but I’m surprised that it still is.

Payman Langroudi: You know. Kunal. Of love teeth. Yeah. Kunal Patel. Yeah. [01:37:10] I mean, they they do up their practices really nicely.

Moj Dehghanpour: Really nicely.

Payman Langroudi: He still says the thing most people [01:37:15] talk about is.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, TV.

Payman Langroudi: On.

Moj Dehghanpour: The ceiling is so weird, right? And it’s such a simple thing to potentially [01:37:20] do if you’re opening up a practice. But.

Payman Langroudi: So what have you done about marketing?

Moj Dehghanpour: So marketing. [01:37:25] Look, we’ve tried everything. Absolutely everything. We’ve spent loads [01:37:30] of money on sort of digital stuff with various agency known, well-known agencies. [01:37:35]

Payman Langroudi: Um.

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, we spent money ourselves, um, [01:37:40] on, you know, obviously the usual stuff like Google and pay per click SEO, all that kind of [01:37:45] stuff. We’ve done leaflets, we’ve done going to local businesses. We’ve done, [01:37:50] uh. The most successful one, in [01:37:55] all honesty, is still, to this day, word of mouth recommendations. Yeah, because the patients are higher [01:38:00] up the sort of the purchasing sort of, uh, cycle cycle. Uh, [01:38:05] Google’s been pretty good. That’s been pretty fruitful. Uh, we spend a lot of money on agencies. [01:38:10] For us, it didn’t work.

Payman Langroudi: Did you manage to get your head around, like, cost per acquisition? [01:38:15] Yeah, yeah, the cost per lead. Cost per actual. Yeah. So, so so how much was it? [01:38:20] What was the kind of cost for one guy to be sitting in your dental chair?

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, [01:38:25] sort of. It’s changed as time’s gone on based on. So I can tell you for, for example, [01:38:30] for, uh, Google at one point, it went as, as high [01:38:35] as £100 for a patient to sit in the chair.

Payman Langroudi: I’d say higher. I’d say.

Moj Dehghanpour: It [01:38:40] was.

Payman Langroudi: Around today.

Moj Dehghanpour: Now it’s lower for us because we’ve we’ve managed to [01:38:45] tweak it and get better at it And you know but but but [01:38:50] we at at one point for, for our Google stuff it was around £100, £110 there [01:38:55] or thereabouts. Right. And so when you know, search associates.

Payman Langroudi: Implants, [01:39:00] Invisalign, these sort of search terms.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah a lot of them, a lot of.

Moj Dehghanpour: Them sort of they get sort of implants and Invisalign [01:39:05] or just new patients, you know, general dentistry dentists. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Dentist, dentist, Islington.

Moj Dehghanpour: Dentist [01:39:10] near me, Islington or whatever. You know, all this stuff. Uh, and so when I would speak to the, to the [01:39:15] dentist and the practice associate, I’d be like, look, guys, we’re spending a load of money on this, right? [01:39:20] I want you to know this. Not because I want you to sort of feel like, oh, I’m doing you a favour, [01:39:25] but I want you to just appreciate every single patient that’s in your [01:39:30] chair. Just use it, um, as almost like a gift. [01:39:35]

Payman Langroudi: Right?

Moj Dehghanpour: A they’ve shown trust in us that they’ve come sit down in the chair. Right. And also, [01:39:40] uh, do them justice, right, by offering [01:39:45] All your talents and skills and services. So I know you. One of the things you always [01:39:50] talk about is like, have you ever asked a patient, what do you how do you feel about your smile in a medical, you know, all that stuff. It’s just [01:39:55] basics, right? Why not? Why not just I’m not saying, you know, [01:40:00] you have to sit there like some car salesman and throw them, throw stuff at it, just [01:40:05] have very casual conversations, say, oh, yeah, you know, so I don’t know. So how do you feel about [01:40:10] it? You know, by the way, how do you feel about the colour of your teeth?

Payman Langroudi: You know, Frank spear talks about, uh, [01:40:15] if you took your dad to a cardiologist. Yeah. Would you want the whole story? [01:40:20] Yeah. Or not? Yeah. And, you know, there is a whole story in every mouth, you know, like, once [01:40:25] you get to tooth surface loss. Yeah, yeah, there’s a whole story, a story.

Moj Dehghanpour: There’s a story you’d want [01:40:30] to know. And so you want you want that clinician to sort of delve into the, the, [01:40:35] the the whys and hows. And you know what’s happened there. Right. You’re paying for that professional [01:40:40] advice. And so they’re not there to you. I think sometimes [01:40:45] there’s that misconception, you know, and it’s sort of where, where, where some people get a bit uneasy about the whole selling thing. [01:40:50] Right? It’s no one is saying you have to force [01:40:55] or push stuff on, on a patient. Right. But [01:41:00] I think it’s you’re not doing them or you are doing them a disservice [01:41:05] if you feel they could benefit from something and you don’t offer it. Yeah. Okay. [01:41:10] So if you think their teeth are yellow, just say, how do [01:41:15] you feel about your teeth? And if they say it’s fine, okay, move on, I move on. That’s it I don’t then [01:41:20] you know, that’s when you become a, you know, like a dodgy car salesman or a.

Payman Langroudi: You know, up to you. [01:41:25] How how exactly you handle this.

Moj Dehghanpour: Just very casual. Very. It’s just like, you know, how, uh.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:41:30] the difference is interesting, right? The difference between Moj associate and [01:41:35] Moj practice owner. And I know you were you went from VC to practice owner, but practice owner [01:41:40] in the NHS system that it’s the exact opposite situation.

Moj Dehghanpour: You’ve got I mean.

Payman Langroudi: Thousands [01:41:45] of patients.

Moj Dehghanpour: Listen, I remember I had one day is like 44 patients. [01:41:50]

Payman Langroudi: But what I’m saying, the difference in you where you’re noticing each patient’s going £120 [01:41:55] to get in the door. Yeah. Is to have that conversation with your people and say, [01:42:00] look, this is gold. Yeah. And if not, not only sell to these people. Yeah. [01:42:05] Treat them really well. Don’t treat.

Moj Dehghanpour: Them. Treat them.

Payman Langroudi: Blow their socks off.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. I mean, the danger [01:42:10] is, you know, and the the, the and what you know, I’ve done [01:42:15] is I’ve provided all the gear and all the tech and all the gadgets and scanners and cameras and TV [01:42:20] in front of the chair. Tv above the chair. You know, you put your X-rays in on the TV in front. [01:42:25] You put your scan, scan, connect the scanner to the TV in front and photos the full shebang. Right. [01:42:30] And and I’m I’m a big believer in, um, educating patients with visuals. [01:42:35] Right. Because I think it’s massive, massive aid. Right. And I take loads of photos and scans and all the rest of it. And [01:42:40] again I said to these guys, I was, look, you’ve got all the tools here. You’ve [01:42:45] got CT scanner, OPG, digital radiography, photo cameras, [01:42:50] DSLRs, scanners. Just use it. Don’t use it. I’m not saying don’t go and scan patients for [01:42:55] unnecessarily CT scans or whatever, but if there’s a need, do it. And you know and I know [01:43:00] some principals, I think they sort of charge their associates for use of certain things and whatever. Yeah. [01:43:05] And, and I’ve been in practice where that’s been done myself where, you know, it’s [01:43:10] there. I’ve put the money in there. I want you to use it.

Payman Langroudi: What about the split? I mean, [01:43:15] you’re investing in marketing. You’re investing in CapEx. Yeah. Is your split with your associate [01:43:20] 50, 50? 60, 40? What is.

Moj Dehghanpour: It? It’s not. It’s 42%. Okay. Which [01:43:25] I think for London and where we are and the type of practice I think is reasonable. Um, I know there’s a [01:43:30] there’s a sort of big push for a lot of places to go lower. And I know they go lower than that. I’ve had [01:43:35] associates come to me and they’ve got. But, um. Uh, what [01:43:40] we’ve done is we’ve done a bit of a sliding scale. So then it’s like, and I’ve had [01:43:45] the frank discussion with him and say, look, this are this is our fixed costs hourly. [01:43:50] Um, if you hit above this, [01:43:55] there’s, we split the reward basically. Yeah. Or you get rewarded more, you know, and that’s [01:44:00] what we’ve done. And I think that’s fair. And actually, um, when I, when I spoke to the associate, actually, [01:44:05] you know what? This is reasonable.

Payman Langroudi: And your reflections on associates like hiring, [01:44:10] uh, do you reckon you’ve.

Moj Dehghanpour: Hired every single person in the practice?

Payman Langroudi: Reckon you’re [01:44:15] good at it?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, I don’t know, I don’t know, I never [01:44:20] I don’t think I’d like to say if I’m really good at something, because I think it’s probably usually [01:44:25] for other people to judge that. But all I will say is up [01:44:30] to now and it’s early.

Payman Langroudi: Days.

Moj Dehghanpour: Up to now. Up to now.

Payman Langroudi: You’ve done well.

Moj Dehghanpour: I’ve [01:44:35] done well.

Payman Langroudi: But how can you tell? Can you tell?

Moj Dehghanpour: I can tell.

Payman Langroudi: By talking to someone.

Moj Dehghanpour: Oh, oh, how [01:44:40] can I tell? How can I make the judgement?

Payman Langroudi: Can you tell by talking.

Moj Dehghanpour: To a lot of the time? Yeah, I know, I mean, I do, [01:44:45] um, um, you know, we’ve recruited now nurses and receptionists and stuff [01:44:50] like that, and I’ve got and I’ve got an idea in my head as to sort of who, who I can get on with. Um, [01:44:55] and it’s going to be different for different people. Um, but a [01:45:00] lot of the time I know within the first 30s and I [01:45:05] make judgements with that. Now, sometimes that might be wrong, I don’t know, but I’ll still make the judgement. And until [01:45:10] I’m proven wrong, maybe you.

Payman Langroudi: Trust your instincts.

Moj Dehghanpour: I go through and I think [01:45:15] and I think up to now touch wood. All the guys I’ve recruited [01:45:20] have pretty much are still with us.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But you know, my point is this. Let’s say you’ve got I [01:45:25] mean, you’ve almost answered it already, but but someone’s got a beautiful portfolio, [01:45:30] a brilliant CV.

Moj Dehghanpour: Everyone’s got a really nice portfolio these days.

Payman Langroudi: But but you don’t connect.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:45:35] then the opposite. Someone who doesn’t have the best portfolio.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. This is something [01:45:40] that if you speak to my practice manager, she knows. Yeah. I repeat every single [01:45:45] interview. I’m more interested in the personality than the skills. And [01:45:50] that’s whether it’s the nurse, whether it’s a receptionist, whether it’s the dentist or hygiene therapist [01:45:55] or whatever. Okay. I’m the person for me, is more important. They have to fit within the vibe [01:46:00] and ethos of the practice, and that is positive. And I always say [01:46:05] I’m interested in positive vibes.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, because negative [01:46:10] people are toxic. They are. One negative person will bring down your whole practice [01:46:15] and patients will pick up on that. You have one negative person as a nurse. Dentist. Reception. Patients [01:46:20] walk in, they notice that, you know. I’ve had instances where, for example, one of the [01:46:25] guys got to get a bit stressed out, you know. Um, for example, I think it was [01:46:30] and for good intentions, he was getting stressed because he’s because of trying to look after a patient, but the keeper wasn’t working or [01:46:35] something, I don’t know. There was like a conflict with the Bluetooth or something. It was wireless keyboard and [01:46:40] he’s like running around, you know, etc. and I’m and I’m like, listen. And [01:46:45] sort of maybe, um, one of the receptionist was getting a bit upset because this, [01:46:50] this person was getting a bit stressed. And it’s like, I’m thinking the [01:46:55] patient’s not going to know whether that keyboard is working or not, but they will know when they walk in, when [01:47:00] the receptionist is like, you know, a bit miserable and you know that, that they pick up on the atmosphere [01:47:05] and the tension like you’ve said, right? Yeah. And that’s really important. And that positivity [01:47:10] is extremely important within a team.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Everyone’s and I’ve said this to receptionists [01:47:15] I said, look I don’t care. I’ve had receptionists who from Dental non Dental same [01:47:20] with nurses. Um and again with the dentists and therapy hydrogen therapists as well. [01:47:25] I’ve said, you know, everyone’s got they bring me I asked for a portfolio [01:47:30] of course to know that there are certain calibre. At least they know how to use a camera. Yeah, [01:47:35] yeah. But. And some of the photos are beautiful. Way better than mine. Some [01:47:40] are. The composites are way better than mine and some are not. Right. But I’m interested in the person [01:47:45] if that person is motivated. And that’s key. Um, and [01:47:50] wants to do good dentistry and wants to look after people and wants to be part of a good team. [01:47:55] Team. That’s the most important thing for me. So that’s how I know when I speak to someone. It’s just a feel I get, [01:48:00] you know, like, you know, you’ve you’ve been to thousands of practices, right? You walk in just like you said. You [01:48:05] get a vibe of the place and whatever you hear laughter, little things like that. Sometimes you can’t put your finger on it.

Payman Langroudi: I had the clinical [01:48:10] director of my dentist on and she was saying she can she can tell within the first ten minutes [01:48:15] of a zoom call. Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: So now basically a lot of the time what happens is, yes, my practice [01:48:20] manager will do zoom calls, for example, which she’s been doing recruiting for Maida Vale. You know, I’m sort of in their [01:48:25] background. I’ll have a, you know, maybe poke my head through, say hi or whatever, and [01:48:30] then I just stand there for about 10s. Sometimes I just close my eyes and [01:48:35] then just see how they speak, how they respond to just how they say hello.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [01:48:40] yeah, yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: Just that first five words, you know.

Payman Langroudi: And then super important man, they’re going to [01:48:45] say hello to 30 people or 15 people a day whatever it is. Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: And um, and then [01:48:50] I just look at the practice manager, I’d be like or or. Yeah, bring him, bring him for [01:48:55] a trial, literally. It’s like, don’t waste your time 20 minutes on this because it’s not [01:49:00] going to happen. Yeah. Just because of the way they’re holding themselves sometimes body language etc.. You know, [01:49:05] these things are important. And I think and I think, you know, um, sometimes, [01:49:10] um, I’ve always been a bit OCD maybe [01:49:15] about how and actually, I think a [01:49:20] lot of it came from Tony, the guy who owned Hospital Lane. And he was I’ll never [01:49:25] forget it. I started the hospital in on 2nd September 2016. Within the first few [01:49:30] days of me being there, he walked into the surgery. He was talking to me. Oh, how’s it going? You know, how’s things? I [01:49:35] could just see his eyes are just like, you know, wondering, right? And then he’s fixated [01:49:40] somewhere behind me, and I’m like, what’s he looking at? And he looked at, like, one of the one of the drawers. And [01:49:45] he was like, oh, it’s a little chip on there. I need to get that fixed. And I was like, I’ve been here for a week. I’ve [01:49:50] not even noticed that, you know, little things make a difference to people. [01:49:55] We sometimes forget as dentists how that when a patient walks into [01:50:00] the practice and then into the surgery, the things that go through their head when [01:50:05] they see a coffee mug on the side of the worktop, when they [01:50:10] see, you know, the dentist or nurse or whatever is a bit scruffy looking or [01:50:15] not presentable, and the scrubs are all like creased and whatever, uh, [01:50:20] loads of clutter on the worktops, you know, you, you know, I was telling [01:50:25] selling my novels. I listened because I had a sort of training with me as a trainee. Recently I said, listen, I’m really fussy [01:50:30] about making sure you don’t have, like, the last patients, like x ray up on the TV or [01:50:35] something before, you know, make sure you get rid of all that. Put the music on. I like this channel, put this [01:50:40] on. You know, all these little things.

Payman Langroudi: It’s more important in dentistry than in most businesses [01:50:45] because in dentistry, the patient can’t see what you’re doing.

Moj Dehghanpour: Thank you. So when they walk [01:50:50] in.

Payman Langroudi: They only cuz they’ve got are these cuz.

Moj Dehghanpour: Exactly. They use this to form an opinion [01:50:55] based about what you actually do with your hands.

Payman Langroudi: Look, you could say the same thing about a restaurant. Yeah, but then [01:51:00] eventually the food’s going to come and you’re going to taste the food.

Moj Dehghanpour: The proof’s in the pudding.

Payman Langroudi: Proof’s in the pudding. Whereas with the dentist, [01:51:05] you have no idea.

Moj Dehghanpour: No idea.

Payman Langroudi: You have no idea. All you have are these non non, uh, [01:51:10] teeth clues. Yeah. Yeah. And so like you say that the handle of the [01:51:15] door. Yeah. Is more important than the amount, the filling. Now I’m sure you can [01:51:20] do the filling very well. Yeah. But from the patient’s perspective he has no idea whether he did that thing well.

Moj Dehghanpour: And this [01:51:25] goes back to the whole communication thing and how why communication is so important. It’s not so much what you do with your hands, you know, when, [01:51:30] um, uh, the, the changeover, um, to [01:51:35] Bupa happened on Hospital Lane. Uh, and apologies for this, Mark, but if you, [01:51:40] if you, if you do listen to this Mark Allen. Um, but we used to have Molton Brown hand washes [01:51:45] in Hospital Lane, you know, quite affluent clientele there. Right. And I [01:51:50] remember when Bupa took over the Molton Brown hand washes disappeared. Right. [01:51:55] Got some sort of cheaper brands, I don’t know whatever whatever the bulk buyers [01:52:00] you know. So I had a patient come in saying, oh I need this is the truth. [01:52:05] I noticed how since Bupa has taken over, the Molton Brown hand washes have changed, have gone. [01:52:10] And I was like, bloody hell. Do you know what never even occurred to me? What ambush we’ve got in the toilets. [01:52:15] Right. But people pick up on this stuff and I remember again, I had to [01:52:20] For, and it wasn’t really my place because I was an associate of Spirit Lane. [01:52:25] Right. But I loved the place, and I still do.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s phenomenal. Amazing practice. Right. [01:52:30] Um, and I, you know, when I was leaving, I put an advert up on Facebook. I [01:52:35] don’t know if you saw it or not. It put some photos up. I’ve got so many messages and likes on the post [01:52:40] and stuff like that, you know? Um, and I [01:52:45] had to fight really hard to get some, you know, they’re going to [01:52:50] change the chairs. And I was like, I can’t look, patients here are of a certain calibre. They [01:52:55] appreciate quality. And you know that premiumness of the product. Yeah. It’s got everything’s got [01:53:00] to fit. You can’t put a cheap chair in a practice like that. Now it might work in another practice, but not in this. [01:53:05] Right. Because people pick up on these things and people not you know, we’ve got to we’ve got to respect [01:53:10] people because people are not stupid, right? They they know when they walk in, they [01:53:15] pick up on the vibe. They see how clean the practice is. They pick up on the tech, they pick up on the gadgets. How [01:53:20] presentable the staff are, how they greet them, their coffee, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Payman Langroudi: It goes back [01:53:25] to positioning. Yeah. It does. You know, that’s that’s the thing it does. You know, [01:53:30] what is the position.

Moj Dehghanpour: Maybe in answer to your question because you said was it intentional or not? Yeah. [01:53:35] In all honesty, if I were to look [01:53:40] at the product we are offering, actually, maybe we should be higher up [01:53:45] near the right at the top of the sort of the the food chain, [01:53:50] if you like. If I’m being honest. But because maybe. [01:53:55]

Payman Langroudi: He was scared, I was scared, you know, I want to put them.

Moj Dehghanpour: On seats, right? I [01:54:00] want to put bums on seats and I want to get patients through the door. And I’ve got overheads and bills.

Payman Langroudi: Like you said.

Moj Dehghanpour: Rather than [01:54:05] charging £1,500 for a crown like I did in Kent like you now charge.

Payman Langroudi: You know, we never know [01:54:10] how a business is going to turn out, you know, and fear is a big part of business, you know that. You know, that [01:54:15] sort of they talk about it in in the stock market Fear and greed index. Yeah, it’s a big [01:54:20] part of any venture. You know, we’re doing any new product. Massive fear. Massive fear. [01:54:25] You know, because you spent the whole year testing this stupid sensitivity. Ben. [01:54:30] Yeah. And now what’s going to happen to it? Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: 100%. [01:54:35] But also, you know, you got to bear in mind, you know, I, um, had I gone [01:54:40] to sort of more conventional route of, okay, I’m going to open a practice and it’s going to [01:54:45] be me and one nurse and maybe a receptionist and then maybe one hygienist. The overheads are much lower. [01:54:50] You know, I’d gone for a big, almost like corporate skill from the word go. [01:54:55] Right. So I’d taken this risk. Now it’s like, okay, well, that model of okay, I’m going to charge like two [01:55:00] grand for a crown. Um, it’s a it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Is there a [01:55:05] plan that you and your partner have decided on already, or [01:55:10] are you, you know, going on it one day at a time, seeing what opportunities come along [01:55:15] or, you know. Have you said, hey, we’re going to grow it to this number or this amount of turnover [01:55:20] or this amount of profit or anything like that?

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, no, [01:55:25] we’ve not we’ve not put a fixed number or anything on there. Um, [01:55:30] I think we’ve, we some would say we’ve grown, [01:55:35] uh, to that second practice too quickly or it’s really quick. Everyone gets shocked. But actually for [01:55:40] us I think it’s the right it feels comfortable doing it at this pace now. I think, [01:55:45] uh, that practice one is sort of running reasonably smoothly. I’ve got stable [01:55:50] team now. It wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t like that day one. This is. Yeah, man. I’ve had it’s been a stressful [01:55:55] 18 months. Yeah. Um, juggling a lot of things at the same time. [01:56:00] And, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Are you, are you on purpose going for squats then. Because you know, you’re [01:56:05] going for, like, this sort of clean slate approach?

Moj Dehghanpour: Uh, I mean, initially, yes. Um, I’m [01:56:10] not saying, you know, never say never. I don’t know what, you know might be that an [01:56:15] opportunity would come. What I do know is that I’m not interested in touching anything with a NHS [01:56:20] element. I’m just not. I know it works for some, maybe, but it’s [01:56:25] not for me. Um. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: Definitely more difficult the way you’re doing it here. Because one [01:56:30] pattern. One pattern I noticed when I sat down with loads of different multi practice [01:56:35] owners, the vast majority of them, the way they got their funding and everything was because they [01:56:40] were NHS element in the practice. Yeah, of course there’s many who haven’t done that. Done [01:56:45] it privately. Yeah. But um more difficult, more, more risky.

Moj Dehghanpour: It is more difficult. [01:56:50]

Payman Langroudi: It’s probably it is more risky. If I was ever going to own a practice, I wouldn’t bother at all with it.

Moj Dehghanpour: I [01:56:55] just it’s just not me.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s just not me. And I and I can’t. [01:57:00] And like I said, I still see myself [01:57:05] very much as a practising dentist, and I just. That’s not me. So it feels [01:57:10] it doesn’t. I would almost have to sort of go against the grain of who I am [01:57:15] today, mixing myself up into that world. I understand [01:57:20] though. Yes, in terms of funding and finance and stuff, like it’s probably a heck of a lot easier and less work, in all [01:57:25] honesty. I mean, the metaverse, you know, taken us quite a long time relative to Islington. Um, [01:57:30] and, you know, you go through all these building shoes and planning and this and this [01:57:35] and neighbours and, you know, all that kind of stuff. Right? And then recruiting everything from scratch. And [01:57:40] but it is difficult. But ultimately I know that what I’m putting out there now actually it’s [01:57:45] all me. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s amazing.

Moj Dehghanpour: It sort of fits.

Payman Langroudi: We’ve come to the end [01:57:50] of our time. Yeah. Two hours in. Wow. Enjoy.

Moj Dehghanpour: The time flies when having fun, huh? [01:57:55]

Payman Langroudi: Final questions.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Fantasy dinner party. Three [01:58:00] guests, dead or alive.

Moj Dehghanpour: Okay. Uh, [01:58:05] it’s a bit of a tricky one. Um, because, Uh, weirdly. [01:58:10] And I don’t want this to come out. The sound the wrong way, but I’ve never really [01:58:15] had a whether it be someone I look up to in that or idol [01:58:20] or whatever, you know. You know, so I know some people go for big sports figures and whatever [01:58:25] musicians and I don’t know. Michael Jackson or Muhammad Ali or people like that. So [01:58:30] having said that, when I was a kid, I loved football. Uh, I probably play more than [01:58:35] what I watch now. I watch big games and World Cup and things like that. But the only [01:58:40] real when I was a kid, um, or younger, uh, the only real sort [01:58:45] of sports hero, if you want to call it that I had was a guy called. You probably [01:58:50] remember him. Roberto Baggio, the guy. Italian guy with the ponytail who missed that famous penalty [01:58:55] in the World Cup against Brazil. I don’t know why. I just used to love him. I really, really [01:59:00] liked him. And because of him, I really got into Italian football. It was James Richardson, the [01:59:05] guy on Saturday, Sunday mornings on channel four. Uh, so I used to watch that [01:59:10] and I started to sort of support Juventus as well as a result. So Roberto Baggio, just [01:59:15] because as a kid, it’s sort of it’s just my favourite, favourite footballer. Uh, [01:59:20] and then the second person I think it’s [01:59:25] going to sound again, a bit of a weird one, but I think with the current, uh, [01:59:30] events in the world especially, I think [01:59:35] I would really like to sit in front of Donald Trump.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:59:40] yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: I think it would be entertaining.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Moj Dehghanpour: And I think it would be. Yeah. [01:59:45] Interesting guest to have. And I’d just love to see if what [01:59:50] we see is the real Donald Trump. You [01:59:55] know, he obviously, you know, people love some people like him. Some people hate him.

[TRANSITION]: But [02:00:00] I just want to.

Moj Dehghanpour: See is there more to him than.

Payman Langroudi: What.

Moj Dehghanpour: We see. And I think there is. I think I think [02:00:05] he’s a lot smarter than at least what he portrays.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. With with all of these politician [02:00:10] types, you know, they all are a lot smarter than you think. Yeah. Yeah, they they are. [02:00:15] And he’s famously very charming. Yeah. Very funny.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Well, he’s definitely very funny. I mean, you [02:00:20] know, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: But he he is a narcissist, I’m sure. But I’d like to. You’re right. It’d be [02:00:25] fun to have it.

Moj Dehghanpour: I think it’d be entertaining. I think anyone, no matter what you think of him. And you know.

Payman Langroudi: What [02:00:30] you would think of him?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, it’d be interesting, because Badger’s quite an introverted guy. Uh, from [02:00:35] all the interviews I’ve seen, uh, and or clearly Donald Trump is anything but that. Um, [02:00:40] but I think he’ll be entertaining, and I think it’ll be interesting. The third I’m going to make, I’m going to put [02:00:45] a bit of a weird twist on it, uh, if it’s okay if you allow me to do so, and [02:00:50] I think I’m going to go, am I allowed to go for someone in the future?

Payman Langroudi: I’ve never had that before. [02:00:55]

Moj Dehghanpour: Okay, so I would like to invite my [02:01:00] son when he’s my age. So I’m 42 now. When [02:01:05] he’s 42.

Payman Langroudi: How interesting.

Moj Dehghanpour: And I would like to see sort [02:01:10] of the man he’s become. Okay. But [02:01:15] now hopefully you never know. I might still be alive then.

Payman Langroudi: How interesting.

Moj Dehghanpour: Okay, um, but [02:01:20] I would like to see what the type of person he’s become. And I would like to listen to his journey. Similar [02:01:25] to my journey. I want to see. And I just want to compare the difference in experiences. [02:01:30]

Payman Langroudi: How interesting.

Moj Dehghanpour: Right. You know, I want to see. Did he ever get bullied at school? Did he ever have this? You know, I [02:01:35] mean, obviously he’s only five now. He’s going on six, but I would I’d [02:01:40] find that interesting. Yeah, weirdly, I actually found this app the other day. Uh, [02:01:45] it just came on, I think my social media or something. And then I downloaded it and it was called Clone [02:01:50] Eye. And you put a, like, a baby photo or a kid’s photo [02:01:55] in there, and it basically projects what they look like. Yeah. When they’re 75.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, wow. [02:02:00]

Moj Dehghanpour: And it was weird. It was really watch. And he does a sort of timeline of like when they’re 20, 30, 40. So [02:02:05] I put my both my son and daughter’s photos on there. A bit freaky, but, um, interesting. So yeah [02:02:10] I’ll put I’ll put is.

Payman Langroudi: It’s funny when when your kids are young that’s that’s a constant thing that [02:02:15] you think I did. I always look at that kind of thing. What kind of adult is this kid going to be like?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, [02:02:20] I’d like.

Payman Langroudi: To, but the you know that all the I find the older I get, the more I realise [02:02:25] all of the clichés are real. All of them. Yeah, yeah. But particularly [02:02:30] the ones around time flies and, you know, like, and be present with your kids and all that. I remember [02:02:35] at age five I was like, God, this is taking so long. So difficult. Yeah. And suddenly [02:02:40] you blink and they’re 17. Like literally. And things change a lot [02:02:45] around 11, 12, 13, 14, you know, every year. Totally new person comes.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s already [02:02:50] in the first five, six years is like a different completely changed.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve never had the future person I’ve had. I’ve [02:02:55] had my previous self, my younger self, that sort of thing.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to the final question. [02:03:00]

Moj Dehghanpour: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a deathbed one. On your deathbed, surrounded by your loved ones. Three [02:03:05] pieces of advice for them and the world.

Moj Dehghanpour: I think, look, [02:03:10] I would say try and, um, [02:03:15] try and be aware of the [02:03:20] people around you. Try and not be self-centred. If there is, if if there is someone or people [02:03:25] around you that you can help, try and help them. You know, um, often [02:03:30] it doesn’t cost a lot to just give a bit of time to people. Um, and [02:03:35] I think long term it whether you, [02:03:40] you shouldn’t do it to get something back. But inevitably the way the world [02:03:45] and karma and whatever you want to call it, the way the universe works, you do often [02:03:50] get get it back and, you know, in abundance and sort of having that abundance sort of mindset, [02:03:55] I think is important. And I think that is I know my dad’s always had that, um, you know, [02:04:00] he’s helped loads of people, you know, over time, whether and never necessarily returned. But somehow [02:04:05] he always says like, you know, oh, I’m so lucky and whatever. And I just things just generally tend to [02:04:10] work out for him.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s important that you don’t expect anything back. Yeah. No. For sure. I [02:04:15] get what you’re saying. You tend to get it back in some in some way.

Moj Dehghanpour: Don’t do it. But I think it’s [02:04:20] it’s you know, I’ve had it recently. For example, I had, um, a couple of young [02:04:25] guys apply for work experience, for example, at a practice. Right now, I know what it was like when you had to apply [02:04:30] to this business and that business, try and get all these hospitals and then wait a month for them.

Payman Langroudi: There’s nothing in it for the [02:04:35] practice, is there?

Moj Dehghanpour: There’s nothing. Right. But other.

Payman Langroudi: Than just.

Moj Dehghanpour: I think one kid came in, um, [02:04:40] into the practice and, um, and, uh, said, oh, can I do work experience? And I think [02:04:45] my manager said, listen, we can’t do it. You know, whatever. We’re busy and, you know, send him away. Right. [02:04:50] And then I saw an email that that I think they’d originally emailed [02:04:55] in, and then they came in And then I saw the email and I said, oh, what happened [02:05:00] to this? Did someone respond to this? Uh, this boy. And she said, oh, yeah, he actually came [02:05:05] in. I said, oh, sorry, we can’t. I said, why? Why would you say that? Fine. Just let them come in like [02:05:10] it’s not. It’s not a problem. So I actually then myself emailed the boy back saying, [02:05:15] listen, you know what? It’s such an amazing email. I genuinely wanted to meet him when he came [02:05:20] in. It was like phenomenal. This kid, like 15 send this email. The way it was so eloquently put. [02:05:25] And I remember he came in with his mum and I said to him, I’ve got a question to ask you in front of his mum. [02:05:30] Did you write this email or was it ChatGPT or was it your mum? [02:05:35] And then the mum said no, honestly, I didn’t even know he’d applied. It was all him. And he goes [02:05:40] no I didn’t, I didn’t use it. It’s just I just. And I said, wow man, you’ve got such a bright future. [02:05:45] There’s so well put this email. I said, yeah, of course. Just stay the whole week. Right. It’s fine. And [02:05:50] I’ve had other people messaged me.

Payman Langroudi: By the way, even if you said ChatGPT well done, right.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. Just having the, sort [02:05:55] of the initiative to do that. Right? Absolutely. It’s like, you know, these little things just I mean, just a small example, [02:06:00] but it doesn’t cost anything. But you could make a real difference to someone, right? [02:06:05] Uh, and I think so that’s, that’s one.

Payman Langroudi: Thing around sort of kindness and.

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah, exactly. You [02:06:10] know, if you, if you can do it. Yeah, it’s, you know, um, I [02:06:15] think, um, also look, as I said a couple of times, I am a genuinely [02:06:20] taken risks and punts in my life on various things. And I think [02:06:25] it although I get the, the, you know, people want to play [02:06:30] it safe sometimes and etc., but I think unless sometimes you take those risks, you know, I [02:06:35] had a practice and I was doing fairly well out of it. Sold it, went to went to a foreign country, [02:06:40] you know, wasn’t it. So everyone was like, oh my God, you’ve never been in a situation? Because I remember I’d jumped from a PhD [02:06:45] straight into partnership. Right. You’ve never been in, so you’re going to hate it, blah blah blah, etc.. Actually, it was fine. [02:06:50] This best thing I ever did it. Going to Norfolk in the first place was a risk. Then [02:06:55] coming out of Norfolk was a different risk. And then going to Kent and then opening a car wash, you know, [02:07:00] all these things and it’s actually been the best things of all sort of that have happened. So I think [02:07:05] it’s sometimes just you just got to take that step and be brave and bold and sort of do it. [02:07:10]

Payman Langroudi: Especially, you know, action. Yeah. Is is the point. You know, I [02:07:15] often come across people I haven’t decided if I’m going to do Indo or Perrier. Yeah, yeah. And then they might spend three years [02:07:20] thinking about Perrier. Either of them would have been great to just do it.

Moj Dehghanpour: Just do something. [02:07:25]

Payman Langroudi: Do something. Because the action itself.

Moj Dehghanpour: Is better than no action sometimes. Right. And I’ve got a friend of mine who’s a bit like [02:07:30] that, and I said, look, man.

Payman Langroudi: Come on, stop.

Moj Dehghanpour: Procrastinating. Just do something right and then have a goal and [02:07:35] then work towards it. Right. You know, it may work out. You might not I don’t know, you know, people said, oh, what do you open in the second [02:07:40] practice or the first practice? Whatever do you think? How do you think? I said, I want to see I don’t know, I don’t know, [02:07:45] you know.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the final one?

Moj Dehghanpour: Um, and then the final one, I [02:07:50] think. I think it’s. It’s [02:07:55] a good quality to have to be dependable. Mhm. I think [02:08:00] one thing again this is from my dad. My dad generally when he promises someone something [02:08:05] he.

Payman Langroudi: He delivers.

Moj Dehghanpour: Maybe doesn’t 100% always deliver. But he tries his goddamn [02:08:10] hardest to deliver. Right. And I think I’ve always had that in me as well. So [02:08:15] if I say to you, I might be absolutely shattered right on a day. But if I said to someone, I’ll meet you for dinner or even, [02:08:20] like, even, like, social events, you know, I’ve got friends who just bail last minute. That’s all right, but I’ll turn [02:08:25] up. Right. If I make. If I say if I say to you, I’m going to see you at 2:00, I will turn [02:08:30] up at 2:00, no matter what.

Payman Langroudi: Or we’ve all got friends of both types, right?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. [02:08:35]

Payman Langroudi: So be the dependable.

Moj Dehghanpour: But I think. But I think because of that, I think I’ve managed to, you know, people [02:08:40] have taken me seriously because I know that I’m just like, okay, dependable. You can trust that he will deliver, [02:08:45] you know, and I think, you know, one of the things, for example, I do feel Tony says. [02:08:50] Do you know what I like about you is that, you know, you you sort of, uh. Okay, [02:08:55] you sort of have this ability to attract people and make people sort of like. And I think that’s very important as [02:09:00] well, by the way, you know. But but equally, you can sort of you can rely on the fact that, okay, you’re just [02:09:05] going to be a man of your word kind of thing, you know, as much as possible.

Payman Langroudi: Which I’ve been asking people this, the final, final thing. [02:09:10] Yeah. The way you answer that question, a lot of a lot of us answer it the same way. It’s like, I’ve [02:09:15] done this. It’s worked for me. You should too. Yeah. What about something [02:09:20] that you haven’t done that you would advise people to do? Or [02:09:25] a way of being that you’re not one way you wish you were. That you would tell your kid to be [02:09:30] like, all right, let me give you a lesson. I’ve got my silly example. I tell my kid, go to the gym more. [02:09:35] Not because I go to the gym a lot because I don’t go to the gym enough. So what kind of thing comes to [02:09:40] mind when I say that?

Moj Dehghanpour: Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I only started going to the gym a couple of years ago, and I wish I’d gone sooner, so, um, [02:09:45] but I do feel much better. And actually, my neck and back and everything, [02:09:50] it’s a lot better for it. Um, I think. Look, um, [02:09:55] I am generally, I’m a bit impatient. I [02:10:00] am an impatient guy, and I’ve got sometimes, um. So it can be a good [02:10:05] thing. Can be a bad thing. But I am, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes bored easily.

Moj Dehghanpour: I [02:10:10] get bored very easily. I’m not the type who can sit at home and, you know, you know, people say, oh, yeah, I can’t wait to [02:10:15] retire. And it’s like, yeah, but what are you going to do then? You know, it’s like, I can’t sit still for more than [02:10:20] five minutes. You know, even this is probably the longest. I’ll sit still. And, you know, I do have this thing of [02:10:25] like, you know, bit, sort of ADHD type, sort of.

Payman Langroudi: Me too. So be patient. [02:10:30]

Moj Dehghanpour: Be patient, be patient. And, um, and maybe [02:10:35] sometimes, I mean, again, going back to sort of the, uh, [02:10:40] being too quick to judge, maybe sometimes I’m a bit too quick to judge. And I was saying that about the [02:10:45] interviews and it can work out sometimes quite well, but equally can be sometimes a bit too quick. [02:10:50]

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. Yeah, it’s been a massive pleasure. I’ve learned so much.

Moj Dehghanpour: Likewise. Thank [02:10:55] you for inviting me.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been great. Well done. For, for for being so open.

Moj Dehghanpour: It’s a pleasure.

[VOICE]: This [02:11:00] is Dental Leaders, the podcast [02:11:05] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [02:11:10] hosts, Payman Langroudi and [02:11:15] Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, [02:11:20] you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually [02:11:25] sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming [02:11:30] you got some value out of it.

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