Payman Langroudi: Anterior composites are an area that a lot of us have trouble with, and the [00:00:05] magic that you get from a patient where you haven’t drilled their teeth and yet [00:00:10] you’ve improved their appearance, is something that you know, the more whitening you do, the more aligners [00:00:15] you do, the more anterior composites you’ll have to do. If you’re not 100% on them, [00:00:20] get yourself on a course like Mini Smile Makeover with Depeche Palmer. Visit Mini Smile [00:00:25] Makeover for dates and details.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:35] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in [00:00:40] dentistry. Your hosts [00:00:45] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure [00:00:50] to welcome Sonia Rajput onto the podcast. Sonia is a young dentist who I [00:00:55] first met at Mini Smile Makeover. Because you were his PhD. Yes. Um, [00:01:00] meteoric rise in your career, Sonia. From Birmingham to [00:01:05] some of the most exciting practices in London. Yeah. Currently working. Where? [00:01:10]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. So I work with Mark Hughes in Beaconsfield in Buckinghamshire, and [00:01:15] I work at London small clinic, Tim Bradstock Smith’s clinic there in central London. So yeah, [00:01:20] I’m in those two places.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a very aesthetically orientated practices, full mouth type work [00:01:25] going on in those practices too. Yeah. Um, let’s let’s get back [00:01:30] to when I met you. Yeah. I mean, just to land the job [00:01:35] at practice, you must have had a strong CV before [00:01:40] you even did your PhD. Is that right?

Sonia Rajput: Um, to be honest, I’ve always been a bit of [00:01:45] a, like, a bit of a I don’t want to say nobody, but like, a bit of at the back of [00:01:50] the room, like, not really relevant to anyone. Um, probably throughout the whole of university and school, [00:01:55] I was really, like on the back burner. I I’ve worked hard, so I did [00:02:00] got my degree, I got my degree. So I think that was a real big thing that people liked. Not many people in my year got [00:02:05] honours. So then when it came to, um, my foundation year back then, it was [00:02:10] just like you had to do interviews. So depression wasn’t my trainer, but he was at the practice. So I really got [00:02:15] on with the trainer at the practice. And, um. Her name was Lena. She was a female dentist, [00:02:20] and I really got on with her, and I knew that was the kind of place I wanted to do my foundation training. And obviously having [00:02:25] Depeche there, I knew that would be super useful to learn all the kind of aesthetic dentistry. So [00:02:30] yeah, I ended up getting that place, but before that, I’m pretty much a pretty useless person. I’d [00:02:35] say.

Payman Langroudi: What are you saying? You’re an introvert.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, 100%. Really? Yeah. [00:02:40] Fully.

Payman Langroudi: Do you find it hard sort of networking and standing [00:02:45] on a stage? Maybe.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. I wouldn’t say public speaking is my forte, for sure. Um, [00:02:50] which probably sounds really funny now that I do kind of put my face out there on socials, but, [00:02:55] um, yeah, I think I was very quiet conservative for most of my life. [00:03:00] And then I feel like I just think, why do you need to? I just I just feel like I kind [00:03:05] of opened up as I got more confident in my, in my career and as life [00:03:10] progressed and things like that. So I just, yeah, got more, more comfortable.

Payman Langroudi: If we rewind to childhood. [00:03:15] Sonia.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What kind of kid were you?

Sonia Rajput: Girly swot and [00:03:20] girly kid. Quiet kid. Really boring. Um, I had two older brothers [00:03:25] at the time. I have a younger sister now, but she was eight years younger than me, so for most of my childhood [00:03:30] I was like, there was two brothers. I never really got to play because they were playing together. And then I was just like, okay, I’ll just chill [00:03:35] by myself in Birmingham. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And what did your parents do?

Sonia Rajput: So both my parents were medical doctors. My whole, [00:03:40] my whole, like my two brothers are medical doctors. My parents are medical doctors. So there’s always been medicine in my family. [00:03:45] Um, but my parents were the first ones to go to university, and they’re kind of like generation. [00:03:50] So they were always hot on education, kind of like for their kids. So I [00:03:55] think even up until my third year of dental school, my dad’s like, you know, you can still do medicine. I was like, no, I’m doing dentistry. [00:04:00] You’re probably even a fourth, fifth year. He was like, do medicine? And I was like, no, no, I really want to do dentistry. [00:04:05] So yeah, I’m the first dentist. And and now my sister’s training to be a dentist now, actually.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:04:10] what kind of doctors are your parents?

Sonia Rajput: General medical practitioner. So they do GPS. They’ve got their own clinic in [00:04:15] Birmingham. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Strange year, because I bet you’re happy you chose dentistry over medicine. [00:04:20]

Sonia Rajput: Oh, my God, 100%. I feel like it’s the best decision I ever made. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And my my brother’s [00:04:25] doctor, and he was telling me he’d. No way would he tell his kids to become doctors. Yeah, but your parents [00:04:30] were kind of keen.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, 100%. I think they just loved the passion. My dad’s super passionate, [00:04:35] so, like, he loves educating people. And I probably get a lot of that from him.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Um, [00:04:40] and my brothers, probably they did medicine because they didn’t know what else to do. They’re clever [00:04:45] people. They got what they wanted to be.

Payman Langroudi: Um, what kind of doctors are they?

Sonia Rajput: Again, GP’s as well. So they’re [00:04:50] all kind of partners at their GP practices. Um, so they’re all very successful in what [00:04:55] they do. But I just hate dealing with death. Like that was a huge thing for me. I don’t like hearing about people dying. [00:05:00] So I was like, I don’t want to do medicine.

Payman Langroudi: Strange thing is, yeah, like, you know, when we’re picking [00:05:05] right now, my kid’s doing his A levels. My my boy, um, when you’re picking medicine [00:05:10] and dentistry kind of fall in the same bucket. True. But the jobs are nothing [00:05:15] like each other.

Sonia Rajput: Completely different.

Payman Langroudi: Completely different.

Sonia Rajput: Completely different.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s a it’s a weird thing to say. I’m [00:05:20] picking between medicine and dentistry, and it tends to be ophthalmics and pharmacy as well. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah [00:05:25] that’s.

Payman Langroudi: True. And we get it, I get it. It’s all in healthcare.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: All four of those jobs are completely [00:05:30] different to each other. So when you picked dentistry and went against your parent’s [00:05:35] advice. Mhm. I mean there’s one side of that which is, you know, kind of independence [00:05:40] thought idea. But what was it, what was the influence on you. I mean, okay, [00:05:45] I don’t like death, but did you, did you, did you. You don’t have to deal with death. You could have been a.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Obs [00:05:50] and gynae or something.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. The worst thing that can go wrong with teeth in the nicest way is not [00:05:55] that bad. Let’s be real, you can’t really go too wrong. So I didn’t want that huge life or death [00:06:00] responsibility. I loved science, but the huge thing is it’s hands on and practical. I think [00:06:05] I would struggle with anything that’s like a desk job. I feel like I need something that’s kind of physical, [00:06:10] keeping me going. So, yes, it could have been a surgeon. Um, but that just didn’t appeal to me that the length of the pathway. [00:06:15] So I thought it was good. It was a good balance as a female to have this kind of career. Definitely. Yeah. For sure. So [00:06:20] like.

Payman Langroudi: For a woman. Great job. So then you got to Birmingham Dental School. Um, was [00:06:25] it the old one or the new one?

Sonia Rajput: I had half the old one, half the new one. So. Okay. It was good.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:06:30] your initial impressions were you living at home?

Sonia Rajput: I know I lived out for three years. Yeah. So I knew I wanted [00:06:35] to. I was going to come to King’s, actually. But the thought of London scared me at that time again, because I [00:06:40] was an introvert. So then being at home was Birmingham was like comfortable for me. But then [00:06:45] I wanted to live out and still enjoy uni experience.

Payman Langroudi: Do you not regret it now?

Sonia Rajput: No. I had the best experience [00:06:50] ever at uni. I’ve got.

Payman Langroudi: No. But do you not regret not leaving your hometown?

Sonia Rajput: I [00:06:55] think because I’ve moved now I’m fine. Because I’ve had that experience. Now, if I think I stayed there, then I probably would [00:07:00] have regretted not experiencing a new city at a certain point in my life. But because [00:07:05] I’ve moved now, I feel like I’m. I’m getting this now.

Payman Langroudi: I’m discussing that with my son now. Yeah. And I remember [00:07:10] at 17, 18 I wanted to stay in London as well, because you think you know it all, don’t [00:07:15] you?

Sonia Rajput: True.

Payman Langroudi: And then you think, well, everything’s good. I mean, one of the world’s top cities. I know people, I [00:07:20] know places. Why not just stay? Yeah. And then I didn’t get my grades. I didn’t get the grades. I wanted us to [00:07:25] go to Guy’s or London Hospital. I mean, they’ve changed their names now, but I wanted to go there. I didn’t get the grades end [00:07:30] up in Cardiff. But the best thing that ever happened to me because. Because I got there and [00:07:35] reinvented, you know, and reinvented doesn’t necessarily mean made [00:07:40] up a new person that didn’t exist. Sometimes it’s to do with there was a person in there that couldn’t [00:07:45] express itself to himself at the way, you know, with the parameters that were set with the friends [00:07:50] and whatever you had there.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And then. So now I’m telling my son, look, go somewhere [00:07:55] else. Somewhere else. But he wants to be an engineer. And, you know, Imperial’s strong on engineering. [00:08:00] And Imperial happens to be the building next door to his school.

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And I’m telling him, look, what [00:08:05] are you going to get from staying in the same part of London for university? [00:08:10]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So. But you don’t have that feeling. I mean, if you’d gone to Bristol or something.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t [00:08:15] you think there would have been a whole life there?

Sonia Rajput: Probably. It would have been. It would have been a whole new challenge for me. And were you scared [00:08:20] or something? Maybe I was scared. I don’t know, maybe inherently. I was scared to have too much change. I don’t like a [00:08:25] lot of change, but I’m here now, and I had to change. So. But I think, yeah, I think [00:08:30] you have to either be comfortable with the idea of moving somewhere new and just going with it, and also reinventing [00:08:35] yourself to a certain degree. Um, but yeah, maybe I was scared back then [00:08:40] and I just wanted.

Payman Langroudi: So then. So then you’re also scared this time when you moved to London?

Sonia Rajput: No, I was much. I was fine, really? [00:08:45] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So you are evolving a little bit.

Sonia Rajput: I evolved, I think I changed the most in [00:08:50] university, got confidence and things like that.

Payman Langroudi: So tell me. Tell me about university. Okay. What were you like? [00:08:55] What was the experience like? Um, did you have the great Lewis McKenzie?

Sonia Rajput: I did, yeah, he was [00:09:00] great. He was really cool. Um, yeah. So university was amazing. Um, I think when you have [00:09:05] a good bunch of friends to kind of encourage you, everyone says to support you. It’s not like cutthroat. [00:09:10] It’s a really great place to grow and flourish. So I think that was a huge thing. Um, I’m still [00:09:15] in touch with like 80% of the people that I’m friends with, which is like six, seven years later, which is really, really [00:09:20] nice. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it was a great place. I met my husband there. And so it’s always been a [00:09:25] positive life part of my life.

Payman Langroudi: So university you enjoyed and I’m talking [00:09:30] about dentistry in university. Did it hit you hard because it hit me so hard?

Sonia Rajput: It is very stressful. I think I [00:09:35] had breakdowns in my second year, like I don’t think I slept for about three days straight and lead up to exams. It’s extremely [00:09:40] stressful. Um, I passed everything so I didn’t ever struggle with that. I think [00:09:45] I’ve always been academically lucky. It takes a really long time for me to understand [00:09:50] something, but once I understand it, it’s like when it clicks, it clicks. So then I’m fine. [00:09:55] So I just have to sit in my room, probably for about a good few hours. And I’m a last minute [00:10:00] crammer, so me too. And the whole time of the year probably was like, yeah, sure, just getting by. [00:10:05] And then when it comes to crunch time, that’s when that’s when I like come awake at, let’s say midnight [00:10:10] two days before. And I’m like, crap, I have to actually focus on what I’m doing now.

Payman Langroudi: I’m quite interested in the question [00:10:15] of ambition.

Sonia Rajput: Um.

Payman Langroudi: So with regards to ambition, [00:10:20] do you like do you remember a time where you decided [00:10:25] I’m going to be really good and I’m going to try really hard? I’m going to be somebody in [00:10:30] dentistry. And when was that time? Was that just six months ago, or [00:10:35] was it early on, like, did you have a chip on your shoulder to prove your parents wrong or something? [00:10:40] Just to give me your thoughts around the question of ambition. Are you ambitious, number one?

Sonia Rajput: I think I [00:10:45] am very ambitious. Yeah, anybody who kind of sees me just thinks I have loads [00:10:50] of friends who are happy just doing normal standard dentistry, but I’m always trying to push myself to the next thing. Something [00:10:55] different, let’s say. Um, probably. I’d say. Yeah, maybe second year after I graduated. [00:11:00] That’s when it kind of hit me that I can do a bit more.

Payman Langroudi: So what, after your PhD? [00:11:05]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I probably would say Dipesh was really inspiring. I think he really pushed me to be like, you [00:11:10] can be a pretty epic, well-known person if you’re just damn good at what you do. I [00:11:15] think that was really inspiring.

Payman Langroudi: So you think before that you just [00:11:20] were working day to day becoming a dentist and had no real direction.

Sonia Rajput: I had no goal. I had no [00:11:25] idea what I was doing. Yes, I wanted to be a dentist. Yes, I wanted to be successful. But everyone’s [00:11:30] idea of success is different, right? Like it could just be. Yes, you have a good job. And you 9 [00:11:35] to 5 and you’re happy. Um, at one point, I thought being successful was having your own clinic. [00:11:40] Like having your own thing that you’ve created. And probably maybe like, 3 or 4 years ago. [00:11:45] I really wanted to do that. But for me, now I feel like I’m having [00:11:50] success is also having time to your family and do the things that [00:11:55] you want to do. Really? Do you know what I mean? For sure. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: For sure.

Sonia Rajput: So maybe in the future, having a clinic is something [00:12:00] that I would look at, but but just having, um, time to do the [00:12:05] things that I want to do and and enjoy. I love dentistry and I love doing what I do, but I love [00:12:10] taking a step away from it and having like, a whole life outside of it as well.

Payman Langroudi: So you went from the [00:12:15] practice to the great Scot arms?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, the great Scot arms. [00:12:20]

Payman Langroudi: For people who don’t know about Scot arms, just just give a little, little explanation [00:12:25] of what that is.

Sonia Rajput: Scot arms is a huge clinic [00:12:30] in Birmingham, which is mostly known as an emergency centre, to be honest with you. So I would say it’s [00:12:35] like 90% private, 10% NHS, but it’s like a, I want to say 25 surgery practice. [00:12:40] It’s huge. Um, you look at the front of the building and it looks like a house, but actually it’s like seven [00:12:45] houses connected.

Payman Langroudi: On and on and on. When you go in there.

Sonia Rajput: On and on and on in there for sure. [00:12:50] And um, yeah. So when you are in there, don’t necessarily feel you only meet [00:12:55] a few people when you’re at work. You don’t know everybody who’s in that building. There would be someone new every day. And I was like, oh, hi. I didn’t [00:13:00] even know you work here. That kind of thing.

Payman Langroudi: I was, you know, I talk to young dentists, right? And depending on [00:13:05] what they’re doing, I always think there’s this, there’s learnings to be had in every job, both [00:13:10] positive and negative. Right? Things. Things you pick up from someone else. Um, [00:13:15] and things you think. I would never do that as well.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And if I [00:13:20] had a friend in Scott arms, I would be like, get Shadow [00:13:25] Phil Tanquary.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And just figure out what that [00:13:30] guy’s brain is working like. How did he do this? What? How does he think about [00:13:35] it? True. Did you learn anything about that? Or like, you know, about managing huge numbers of [00:13:40] people? How many staff were there?

Sonia Rajput: I mean, I don’t even.

Payman Langroudi: Know hundreds.

Sonia Rajput: Hundreds, probably hundreds of stuff. I [00:13:45] don’t ever I used to have meetings with Phil, but he never really talked about the management side. So he obviously [00:13:50] went through numbers of how he’s tracking everything that’s going on in the clinic. But that’s the key [00:13:55] to his success. I can see he was tracking everything. We’d see this needs to be improved. That needs to be improved. You’re not doing so well [00:14:00] here.

Payman Langroudi: Was he very hands on?

Sonia Rajput: Uh, physically hands on, like in terms of dentistry? No. [00:14:05]

Payman Langroudi: Hands on?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. He’d be there all the time for sure. And like, checking through the numbers. [00:14:10] Um, so yeah, I didn’t really learn about it in that, in that respect. But the, the huge [00:14:15] benefit of being there was there’s so many people doing so many different types of dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: You learn from them 100%. [00:14:20]

Sonia Rajput: If there was an extraction, I was stuck on every, um, this guy would be upstairs, David, and I’d be like, David, [00:14:25] please, his tooth is broken. Please help me. He’d come and help me. And that’s how you learn, because you can practice knowing that [00:14:30] there’s someone kind of like a safety net there for you. So if I did do something wrong, it was kind of the best place to learn. [00:14:35] Um, and then I made some really good connections there. So orthodontists there. So if I [00:14:40] had a really tricky line of cases, she would be there to help me. If I’d be like, actually, it’s too much for me. I think you should do it. Pass [00:14:45] it on to her. Um, and Sharon was there. She’s like a huge Dental big sister for me, so she [00:14:50] really encouraged me early on in my career. So that was great. And yeah, so if I had a case where I was like, Sharon, [00:14:55] I think this is what I should be doing, but could you what would you do? She’d be like, yeah, I think that’s all fine. You’ve done all the right things. So [00:15:00] having a huge amount of people there to kind of support you was great thing. That kind [00:15:05] of pushed me early on in my career. So I stayed there for about five years.

Payman Langroudi: And what about socially? Because, [00:15:10] you know, Ft+ one year I found it really isolating. [00:15:15] Yeah, because in PhD, you’ve got your group and you’ve got your whatever Fridays that you go and see everyone [00:15:20] and all that. But the ft+ one I was, I was a nice practice, a four surgery practice. Yeah. [00:15:25] But that sudden realisation that it’s me, the nurse, this room. Yeah. And was [00:15:30] it all for this? Yeah. And I was outside my comfort zone. I was in Kent. [00:15:35]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And so friends weren’t around. So suddenly you get pulled out of your social [00:15:40] circle, you get pulled out of education. Now you’re in the workplace. Was it was this [00:15:45] socially? Was there stuff going on? Like did they do stuff that many people.

Sonia Rajput: Um, [00:15:50] you had to find your groups in there for sure. So I’ve got like a great group, group of [00:15:55] girls that I had there. And so we’d pop into each other’s rooms at lunches, and that’s the only social aspect. But altogether, [00:16:00] they’d probably just be a Christmas party or maybe like a summer thing, but it would tend to be like groups. So [00:16:05] nurses together, male dentists together, female dentists in a separate group. So yeah, it was kind of segregated in [00:16:10] that respect. Um, but that’s why I really like being in like smaller [00:16:15] clinics now because everybody talks to everybody. Like I like seeing my receptionist and chatting to them and things [00:16:20] like that. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I think, look, one massive learning from that practice is to have the insight [00:16:25] to bring patients in for emergencies. Yeah. Like that was the [00:16:30] for that clinic, the Night-Time opening or whatever.

Sonia Rajput: It was open till 11 p.m..

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, that [00:16:35] was the way that was the feeder of all those patients that grew this [00:16:40] practice to 25 chairs. And there’s another practice night. Dental. Are you aware of them in [00:16:45] Birmingham as well?

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Similar idea started that way. And now they’ve got several of [00:16:50] them. But that’s a massive learning right. To think outside the box from the perspective [00:16:55] of getting patients. Yeah. And you know, I’m sure there’s 100 other things he did right as [00:17:00] well.

Sonia Rajput: But that place was always busy. Like Scott Arms was just always busy. It’s pretty crazy. [00:17:05] But because there were so many patients, so many emergency patients, it did make me a really good dentist because I [00:17:10] literally saw any kind of scenario you could think of literally anything. So and I would be the dentist. [00:17:15] I was working till 11 p.m. on like a Boxing Day, and I was the only dentist on call in the whole [00:17:20] of Midlands. Like, you just have to deal with what you have to deal with. And so yeah, I learned so much and it really [00:17:25] developed me. So it’s a great place. It’s a crazy place, but it’s a great place. And I think you [00:17:30] need to be able to put in the hours and the time and effort to learn in your first few years of your career. So it’s yeah, [00:17:35] it’s a great place for me to learn.

Payman Langroudi: But it was mainly private.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, it was mainly private. So it was [00:17:40] a very.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting idea, right? You almost got an NHS experience? Yeah, in a private setting. [00:17:45]

Sonia Rajput: Very true.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, quite, quite hard to get both, you know, like volume and quality and price in [00:17:50] the same place.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. I guess they’re kind of reasonable on price. And when you compare it to kind of like London prices. [00:17:55] Um, but yes, it was still private rather than NHS. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And so was [00:18:00] it there that you kind of got into the aligned bleach blonde?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The facial aesthetics, [00:18:05] facial aesthetics.

Sonia Rajput: I started when I was at Birmingham, but I never really like grew up on it that much. I would say [00:18:10] it grew more when I moved to London. Um, I’ve always had it kind of in the back burner, but, um, [00:18:15] I just felt like there wasn’t. It was so busy at times I couldn’t ever talk about anything other than dentistry. Like [00:18:20] I just never got the time to do it. So, um. Yeah. No, I got into that line. [00:18:25] Bleach. Bleach blonde. Pretty much. So I did, um, worked at Depression Practices Foundation [00:18:30] year. Saw that I wanted to do that kind of dentistry. I would stay behind till 8:00 pm and watch him do cases because [00:18:35] I was like, he is so talented. I need to see how he’s doing, what he’s doing. And yeah, it gave me the push [00:18:40] to say, like, I want to do this kind of dentistry. Um, then I went to the mini smile makeover [00:18:45] and then I was like, yep, that’s going to, um, stuff I want to be doing. So then I landed up, [00:18:50] um, with my job at Scar Arms because I sat next to Sharon on that course. Really? [00:18:55] Yeah. So because I was sitting next to.

Payman Langroudi: Sharon videos we made of the two of you together. You didn’t know each other [00:19:00] before then?

Sonia Rajput: No, I literally I think he put me in the worst seat, sat me in the corner. He was like, you’re here. Just like [00:19:05] my friend. So just sit there as my little associate there. So you sit in the corner. And then Sharon ended [00:19:10] up sitting next to me. And it was a two day thing. Right. So we just and there was a dinner and stuff. So [00:19:15] yeah, we just got on so well. And then I was just saying, oh, I’m looking for a job. I don’t know what I’m [00:19:20] doing. Like I don’t know where to go. And she was like, I think you’d be great at the practice I’m at. So she was like, it’s got arms. [00:19:25] And then, um, that’s she literally took a selfie with me and said to Phil Tangri, [00:19:30] I think I found your next dentist, went for an interview literally the next week. And then. Yeah, that was my [00:19:35] job.

Payman Langroudi: He lost his PhD.

Sonia Rajput: He never asked me to stay on, you know. So, yeah. [00:19:40] No joking. Yeah. So yeah, that’s how how how it turned out. That’s how I ended up getting my job. But I was very [00:19:45] scared because it was a private practice and I was like, am I ready to be going into private practice? This is. Are you sure? [00:19:50] And Sharon was so good to me. She was like, if you’re doing the best that you can do and you’re early on in your [00:19:55] career, don’t feel like you’re not good enough. She’s like, you’re spending the time and effort to be doing the dentistry you want to be doing. [00:20:00] Then why? Why can you not be private? And I was like, yeah, fair enough. And it was really, really good advice. She she [00:20:05] probably shaped my first few years of being a dentist. So yeah for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So I come across [00:20:10] that worry quite a lot. Yeah. People saying am I ready for private. Yeah. And [00:20:15] I kind of flip it on its head and say are you ready for NHS? True. Yeah. Nhs is a massive [00:20:20] skill set, right. To be able to pull it off, I’d say it’s harder than trying to [00:20:25] pull off a private job. Yeah. As long as you know your limitations. I mean that’s that’s a key thing.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. [00:20:30] Knowing when.

Payman Langroudi: To say when can I refer.

Sonia Rajput: 100%?

Payman Langroudi: And I’d say, let’s [00:20:35] say, let’s say you’re an FD now and you’ve got ambitions of going straight to private.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. [00:20:40]

Payman Langroudi: Then I’d say if you manage to get the job and we’ll talk about that in a moment. Yeah. [00:20:45] If you manage to get the job then be a little bit overcautious with referring. [00:20:50] So refer slightly more stuff than you think you should to start [00:20:55] with. Yeah. Then you’re super safe. True. Yeah. You’re safe for the patient.

Sonia Rajput: You have to [00:21:00] be safe for sure. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Then, you know, they say, oh, go to the NHS and learn, you know, get experience. [00:21:05] Yeah. While you’re doing that, be in private and get experience of talking [00:21:10] to private patients.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. I think the way you communicate is. Yeah, [00:21:15] you just have more time to communicate about.

Payman Langroudi: It’s the most important thing to learn. Yeah. How do you [00:21:20] communicate and what’s the point of being in private practice if you’re not learning something? [00:21:25] Right. Of course. Learn the clinical skills. Go on courses, practice things. But but learn [00:21:30] the communication Communications side being gentle, painless injections. All the things that working [00:21:35] to time. Yeah. You know all the things that that private dentistry is.

Sonia Rajput: Tlc. [00:21:40]

Payman Langroudi: Tlc stuff, you know. And and you know, you asked me before we started. When did I stop [00:21:45] practising? Yeah. Um, I stopped practising, but you only really figure out what [00:21:50] you loved about it once you stop.

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And for me, it was that patient interaction talking [00:21:55] to people. You know, I don’t particularly miss the teeth.

Sonia Rajput: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I’m happy doing what I’m doing [00:22:00] rather than fixing people’s teeth. But I miss talking to humans.

Sonia Rajput: Absolutely. [00:22:05]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And a lot of the time when you’re a dentist, people are in the way of [00:22:10] what you’re trying to achieve because you’re trying to get this veneer prep done or whatever it is, [00:22:15] and you don’t realise how lucky you are that you’re exposed to all these human beings [00:22:20] and, you know, from different walks of life, and now you’re working in these super duper practices. I’m [00:22:25] sure you’re getting some super interesting people sitting in your chair.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:22:30] and the other thing I reflect on is I took over from my wife when she got pregnant. [00:22:35]

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and I used to come home and say Mr.. [00:22:40] Whatever is. He was like, I don’t know, head of business, um, journalism, [00:22:45] like in the PhD. Used to work in the PhD. He was the chief correspondent for Business pages, [00:22:50] a big job. Yeah. I’d say. Did you know this guy was in Davos? [00:22:55] You know, like talking to the prime minister of whatever. Yeah. And she knew nothing about it. She [00:23:00] didn’t even know that that was his job. Yeah. But she knew stuff about his family. And so the really interesting [00:23:05] thing about what interests you about another human being. Sure. Yeah. But those [00:23:10] conversations in private are so important. So, so, so important.

Sonia Rajput: I do love that. No. [00:23:15] You’re right. The kind of relationships you can build with your patients and the kind of people you meet and the things you can learn from [00:23:20] them and vice versa is. Yeah, it’s really cool.

Payman Langroudi: So now if a young dentist came up [00:23:25] to you and said, give me advice.

Sonia Rajput: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: What’s your advice.

Sonia Rajput: Good [00:23:30] question because I do get that a lot and I think it is put yourself out there. [00:23:35] I think you should put yourself out there and take any opportunity that you get. But also don’t just say yes [00:23:40] to um any patient case that you get, you have to know your limits and you have to be [00:23:45] good at the basics before you’re ready to move on to the next stage for sure. I see so many people so eager [00:23:50] to make a lot of money and do this kind of stuff, and it’s even in kind of like, let’s say [00:23:55] you get to hear what other people do wrong and do right. Um, people can rush [00:24:00] to become the best dentist possible, but you need to be good at the basics, get good at communication, and then [00:24:05] build a portfolio. Those are the foundations to having a successful associate career, I would say.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:24:10] did you start taking photos very early?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. So I did um like meniscus [00:24:15] focus course very early on, and I started taking photos from literally my first year of being an associate. [00:24:20] I took photos in PhD practice as well, but not stuff I like post, let’s say, but just to document [00:24:25] my work, but also to reflect and go back on it and see up close the things that were good and [00:24:30] things that were bad.

Payman Langroudi: So then in getting these jobs. So let’s let’s [00:24:35] talk about these two jobs that you’ve got right now. Tim Bradstreet Smith London smile clinic. [00:24:40] Yeah, one of the best, you know, one of the original original.

Sonia Rajput: The best. Honestly. [00:24:45] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: One of the original cosmetic practices in London. I mean, actually, Tim was in dentist’s before [00:24:50] that.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I know.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, that was the original.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. The original.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Um, with, uh, Chris or and, [00:24:55] um, you know, so many, so many people who shaped cosmetic dentistry [00:25:00] were in that practice.

Sonia Rajput: Iconic people, to be honest. Yeah. For sure.

Payman Langroudi: So. Okay, so how did [00:25:05] you get these two amazing jobs with Mark Hughes and with Tim Bradstock Smith coming from [00:25:10] Birmingham?

Sonia Rajput: Um, you ever not believe my story? It’s actually pretty crazy. So I knew I was going to get married [00:25:15] and moved to London, so I was moving to Buckinghamshire area. Um, and I was like, crap, [00:25:20] I need to find a job and where am I going to go? So I literally went on to Google Maps, looked where [00:25:25] I was going to live, and I was like dental practice near me and then saw them all. Then Mark Hughes practice [00:25:30] came up and it was really close to where I was going to be. Um, so I went on Instagram, looked [00:25:35] at the page. I was like, yeah, okay, it looks really nice. Mark Hughes is there must be really good. Just sent them a DM [00:25:40] from my my Dental page and I said hi. Like I’m moving to the area. I’ve been associate [00:25:45] for like 4 or 5 years. Um, I would love to like, know if there’s any jobs going. And then they replied [00:25:50] back, probably like a day later saying, um, yes please. Could you email Mark? So I emailed Mark, and then at the bottom of the email [00:25:55] pretty much said the same thing.

Sonia Rajput: Just put like a link to my Instagram because my Instagram had like dental work and like [00:26:00] some photos of a lot. Yeah, a lot like enough, like good cases. Um, I didn’t have [00:26:05] loads of followers. It’s probably maybe like, I don’t know, 3 or 4000, something like that. Yeah, quite a lot. Quite [00:26:10] a lot. But I wouldn’t say like I’m not like a huge dental influencer, let’s say. Um, but enough and then loads [00:26:15] of work and some patient testimonials. And he was he replied back to me. I remember he was like, [00:26:20] I love that you had the confidence to email me, let’s have an interview and then had an interview. We went to go see him [00:26:25] and that’s it. I got the job and he loved because he loved my work. He loved like the personality. And he could [00:26:30] see what I was like before I even had come to see him. So he knew what to expect. Um, [00:26:35] and then he said, yeah, I’m going to make a position for you, so let’s do it. So I was like, yeah, that was my job.

Payman Langroudi: That [00:26:40] sounds so painless.

Sonia Rajput: It was so too easy. Too easy. Right? But no, it was good.

Payman Langroudi: But, [00:26:45] you know, there were lessons in that story, right? Lessons that take photos, make a portfolio. Dm [00:26:50] people for jobs. Don’t just wait for jobs to come up.

Sonia Rajput: You can’t just wait for [00:26:55] jobs to come up. I mean, I messaged other people as well. Um, but that I knew that when [00:27:00] I knew that was Mark Hughes place and I went to see it, I was like, yeah, I want to be here. It’s really, really nice. Um, [00:27:05] and the potential that you could have.

Payman Langroudi: So, for instance, did you think, who do I know? Who knows Mark Hughes? No, [00:27:10] you didn’t have that thought.

Sonia Rajput: I didn’t even think that. No, I probably should have done that.

Payman Langroudi: Because you [00:27:15] could have called me. Yeah, you could have called me. I’ve known Mark Hughes for 20 years. Right?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. [00:27:20] True.

Payman Langroudi: If if you were super.

Sonia Rajput: If I was super switched on. Yeah, maybe I could have done that. I should [00:27:25] have done that. But, um, trying to go off my own merit, I guess. I don’t want to love it.

Payman Langroudi: I just love how painless [00:27:30] that was.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. That’s, um.

Payman Langroudi: So we’ll talk about that practice in a minute. Yeah. How did you get Tim Bradstock [00:27:35] Smith’s job?

Sonia Rajput: So then I was at Mike Hughes practice and the dentist. I worked with another lady there called [00:27:40] Michelle. She works at Tim’s practice.

Payman Langroudi: Michelle.

Sonia Rajput: Michelle Sawyer. And [00:27:45] so, um, she’s a Canadian dentist who moved over maybe like, a few years ago. So we got on really [00:27:50] well at Mark’s practice. So we’re there for one day. And then she just kept saying to me, you’d be amazing at Tim’s [00:27:55] place. And I was like, oh, really? I was like, why? She was like, just like the energy and and you’d fit in really [00:28:00] well. So I was like, oh, okay, cool. No space there. So it wasn’t possible. Then literally three [00:28:05] months later, one of the dentists left and I just got a phone call and she’s like, Sonia, you need [00:28:10] to come for an interview literally ASAP. And I was like, why? She goes, there’s a position opening. I’ve shown Tim your [00:28:15] Instagram page. He really likes your work and likes your kind of personality and presence. So, um, [00:28:20] coming for an interview, went for an interview, spoke through a case like a veneer case to show Tim [00:28:25] because he’s always by the book as well. So showed him a bunch of stuff and, uh, yeah. Then [00:28:30] he was like, yeah, let’s, let’s give this a go. So I’ve had it way too easy. It sounds like too good to be true.

Payman Langroudi: Check your Instagram [00:28:35] page.

Sonia Rajput: It’s not. No, no, it’s not that good.

Payman Langroudi: That’ll be amazing because.

Sonia Rajput: Like, that’s how I got my [00:28:40] jobs, which sounds so crazy, right?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. So painless. Both of those.

Sonia Rajput: So I [00:28:45] know it’s. No.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not just your Instagram, is it? I mean, people warm to you obviously. [00:28:50]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. I mean, maybe when I’m in person I’m a bit more like I take a while to warm up, but once I’m warmed [00:28:55] up. Yeah, they probably like that. Yes. I can see my patients seeing this person. Um, her works good. [00:29:00] And the fact that she’s making the effort to do this online stuff, maybe they like that. I had [00:29:05] the effort to do that. So you probably have to scroll back to all the cases if you go low. Don’t worry. Um, but, [00:29:10] um, yeah. No. Then I think also, to be honest, a lot of them wanted someone [00:29:15] who was willing to be the face of the practice, so they wanted to push socials a bit more. They wanted [00:29:20] to grow their page in a different way, and because I was willing to be on socials, I think they liked [00:29:25] that. I was happy to do that aspect of their practice as well.

Payman Langroudi: But you’re saying it doesn’t [00:29:30] come naturally to you to be on social?

Sonia Rajput: No it doesn’t. I’m probably super nervous at the beginning of this podcast. I’m [00:29:35] an introvert person, which you can probably tell, but I warm up after a while. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So. [00:29:40] So you recognised sort of the social media side as [00:29:45] a necessary evil?

Sonia Rajput: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: That you have to do. It’s like like like, I don’t know, [00:29:50] radiology. Cpd. Yeah. Yeah. A necessary [00:29:55] evil. Yeah, but many don’t. I mean, if you remember on MSM, we always ask that question, right? We [00:30:00] say, how many people here have a dental account. And it’s a very like of the 30 people [00:30:05] there tends to be 3 or 4.

Sonia Rajput: Really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And then maybe there’s another 3 or 4 who [00:30:10] haven’t put their hands up. Yeah. And then you say, well why not? And [00:30:15] people always say same few things, but I have time.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: This is. [00:30:20] I’m worried what other dentists will think of my work 100%. How did you get over that? I’m [00:30:25] proud of your work.

Sonia Rajput: No. Yeah. No, I’m really good. No. I’m joking. No. Absolutely not. I [00:30:30] think I do worry about that when you’re ready to post, I think I probably get, let’s say put, I don’t [00:30:35] know, 30 posts ready. Not that I do that. Let’s say ten posts already. I’ve made ten posts ready to post before and [00:30:40] after my work. Just as I’m about to click posts, I zoom in to like the nth degree, and [00:30:45] then I’m probably at five of those. I’m not going to post because I’m too worried about what people will say. If I showed [00:30:50] someone who’s non Dental such as my mum or I don’t know my husband, I’d be like, that’s great. Before and [00:30:55] after. Why are you worried? So I think you have to take it out of your head that other dentists [00:31:00] may judge you. But I made a page for patients. It’s not for dentists. Yes, dentists [00:31:05] will see it, but I wouldn’t ever judge another. Like I wouldn’t message somebody [00:31:10] and be like, your work is so bad, blah blah blah. I’ve had one person do that to me in my whole career saying, actually, [00:31:15] you should have done this differently or this differently. I appreciate that and I appreciate that you messaged it to me. I don’t think my [00:31:20] work’s the best, that it’s always like all my posts are not like the best work ever. I think I’m good at what I do and [00:31:25] I think patients can see that. And then yeah, so then I would say you should do it. I think you should. You should [00:31:30] make a social media page because the opportunities I’ve got from it, the patients that I get from it, patients can [00:31:35] see work is good. I don’t worry too much about the dentist, but I actually, surprisingly have a lot of really supportive [00:31:40] dental friends and community, and they all are supportive of me. If someone was genuine and be like, Sonia, [00:31:45] you should take that down, then fine. I would take that down. But um, touchwood, it hasn’t come to that at the point. So which is good. [00:31:50]

Payman Langroudi: But it’s your mindset, the kind of person that once you decide to do something, you go all in [00:31:55] on it.

Sonia Rajput: Um, yeah. I’m very, like, blasé. I’m kind of, um, I know [00:32:00] I want to do some things. I know I want to achieve some things. Um, I probably don’t overthink [00:32:05] things too much, because if I do, I probably will talk myself out of it. So I try and set some things [00:32:10] up, ready to do so. If I’ve made the page, I made a post. I have to keep posting now. [00:32:15] Like that’s it, I’ve done it. It. If I say, um, even booking this podcast. Yeah, I know, I [00:32:20] probably would be nervous to do it, let’s say. But if it’s in the diary, I’m just gonna have to do it. Don’t think about it till [00:32:25] the morning before or the night before, and then you’re kind of like you’re there. And that’s the situation. So yeah, [00:32:30] I’m a bit blasé. Maybe.

Payman Langroudi: So. Okay, let’s get down to tactics. Social media tactics. [00:32:35]

Sonia Rajput: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Like what’s your what’s your process regarding posting? Like you’re [00:32:40] taking lots of pictures.

Sonia Rajput: I took lots of photos, a photo, every photograph, everything with my nurses. [00:32:45] Um, but before I used to focus a lot on just before and after photos, but I’m finding a lot more, [00:32:50] um, the nurses want to get involved and make funny videos, and, you know, that kind of like it does [00:32:55] help to grow your page if you have that kind of content. So I’ve started doing a little bit more of that.

Payman Langroudi: Um, yeah. But but [00:33:00] literally like do you, do you decide today we’re going to be filming some stuff [00:33:05] with the nurses.

Sonia Rajput: Oh yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Before you even get there. And then and then and then you tell the nurses today [00:33:10] we’re gonna like I’m literally want to.

Sonia Rajput: Know.

Payman Langroudi: How because. Because people are thinking, you know, I’m going to [00:33:15] go see my patient now. The nurse is cleaning up. Okay. Okay. Now, someone didn’t turn up. So [00:33:20] now we’ve got some time.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I probably would.

Payman Langroudi: How do you convince everyone to get involved? The whole thing.

Sonia Rajput: You [00:33:25] kind of have to. A lot of the nurses send me funny videos. They’re like, oh, my God, we should do this. I’m like, okay, shall [00:33:30] we do it on Friday? Seeing a gap in the diary, shall we do that so that yeah, that’s the kind of situation I wouldn’t [00:33:35] say I have a strategy meeting planning this, this, this, this. They kind of send funny things. I’m like, yeah, okay, let’s [00:33:40] do this. We have a gap on this day. Let’s make sure we all kind of look a little bit cute that day, because then you don’t mind. [00:33:45] And then yeah, we’ll try and film it quickly. That’s the kind of like.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s the fun ones.

Sonia Rajput: That’s the fun ones. [00:33:50]

Payman Langroudi: We’ve got the before and afters.

Sonia Rajput: For and afters I can do and then educational ones I’m trying to do more of as well, but it has [00:33:55] to be on the time where you’re mentally prepared to be willing to sit there for a little bit. So I can’t do it at the [00:34:00] end of a long day, it’s too much. If I have, let’s say someone’s cancelled in the morning, I’d be like, okay, I [00:34:05] can do it then. Or if I on one of my days off, I might take 1 or 2 videos, for example. [00:34:10] And yeah, maybe something like that.

Payman Langroudi: And so is that more TikTok?

Sonia Rajput: No, I’m not really [00:34:15] good on TikTok. I’m really millennial. I don’t really know how to use it, to be honest with you. Really? Yeah, I [00:34:20] know it’s really struggling. I really struggle to use TikTok, so I focus on Instagram.

Payman Langroudi: All right. So then ideas for [00:34:25] those educational ones. They’re just the basic ones. Should I brush before or after breakfast. Those [00:34:30] sort of questions.

Sonia Rajput: Those kind of questions. Um, I just see whatever else comes up. And to be honest, [00:34:35] a lot of it is my nurses or my younger sister who’s like eight years younger than me. They’ll send me stuff which [00:34:40] is going viral, let’s say. So they’ll be like, maybe you should talk about something like this.

Payman Langroudi: Toothpaste.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, that kind of stuff. [00:34:45] So someone giving me insight of what they think other people would like to see, that’s. Yeah, that’s what I find.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:34:50] then go on the process that the process of filming one of those videos. Are you the type of person who, [00:34:55] I don’t know, types out every single word you’re going to say and learns it off by heart?

Sonia Rajput: Oh, no, I’m very, very [00:35:00] like blasé, spontaneous. Yeah. Put the camera on. Okay. Um, so have you. [00:35:05]

Payman Langroudi: Got the words? Do the words just come to you.

Sonia Rajput: Because blah blah blah? Really? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Because some people struggle [00:35:10] with that. Yeah. The camera goes on and the words don’t come to them and.

[TRANSITION]: They use.

Payman Langroudi: They say the wrong word. [00:35:15] Do you not even worry about that?

Sonia Rajput: I say the wrong word, but I’ll probably delete the first ten minutes and then I’ll [00:35:20] probably start again from there. So I just need to warm up and then I’ll be okay. That’s, that’s that tends [00:35:25] to be what I do.

Payman Langroudi: And then what about the actual production side of like do you use Canva? [00:35:30]

Sonia Rajput: Uh, no, I need to use Canva. I should probably start using Canva. I just use [00:35:35] Edit on Instagram and I’ve just downloaded Capcut recently, so I’m just starting to use Capcut, which is a good editing app. [00:35:40] So I think that’s something which makes things faster and easier. Does subtitles for you as those emojis on it, that [00:35:45] kind of stuff. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And how much do you pay attention to the metrics?

[TRANSITION]: Um.

Sonia Rajput: I’d [00:35:50] probably check it like, yeah, maybe. Yeah, I probably would check it like once or twice [00:35:55] a week to see how like it’s doing.

Payman Langroudi: In what metric are you most interested in?

[TRANSITION]: Views.

Sonia Rajput: Views [00:36:00] the areas that like you can see the kind of people that are viewing it like male, female, you can see the area that’s viewing [00:36:05] it. Kind of hashtags you should be using. Um, yeah, I look into that. So if I don’t know how, [00:36:10] I’m, I don’t know how much benefit it is to change certain things like hashtags and stuff like. [00:36:15]

[TRANSITION]: That, right?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah it does. Yeah, it does make a difference. But I don’t know. I haven’t measured those specifically, but if something’s [00:36:20] doing well, I’ll just try and do more of that same kind of content, let’s say. And then I’ll. Yeah. That’s [00:36:25] what I’ll.

[TRANSITION]: Try.

Payman Langroudi: Do you focus on the first three seconds?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I try to go on. [00:36:30]

[TRANSITION]: What do you do first?

Sonia Rajput: Three seconds. Do you brush your teeth like this? No. Because [00:36:35] yeah, you’ve got to have a hook and then be like, hi, I’m Doctor Sonia.

[TRANSITION]: That’s it.

Payman Langroudi: So did that just come naturally [00:36:40] to you? Was that obvious to you that the first three seconds had to be amazing?

Sonia Rajput: No. I think the more you start [00:36:45] looking at these things online, then the more more of the, you know, the algorithm hears you.

[TRANSITION]: Teaching you how to do.

Sonia Rajput: People [00:36:50] teaching me. So they’re like the three seconds, the visual hook, the audio hook up, those kind [00:36:55] of things. So I just.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Super interesting because there’s loads of videographers. [00:37:00]

[TRANSITION]: There’s loads that.

Sonia Rajput: Reach out and.

[TRANSITION]: No, no, but loads of.

Payman Langroudi: Videographers who don’t understand social.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, true. Yeah. [00:37:05]

Payman Langroudi: They like they want to they want to make they want to make three hour movies.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The idea I did it. The first [00:37:10] three seconds is important. You need like, someone if there’s going to be a, like [00:37:15] a Prav calls it a social media ninja. Yeah. In a practice, that person needs to be [00:37:20] totally native to social media. Understand that the rooms are different. Yeah. Like [00:37:25] for instance, if you did a LinkedIn post, that is a different post to your Instagram post.

[TRANSITION]: Exactly. [00:37:30]

Payman Langroudi: And by the way, a different post to your TikTok post.

[TRANSITION]: Exactly. Which is why I’m not good at TikTok. [00:37:35] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And it breaks my heart. Sometimes we get stuff that does really well on Instagram, does nothing on TikTok.

[TRANSITION]: I [00:37:40] know, and.

Payman Langroudi: Vice.

[TRANSITION]: Versa, and.

Payman Langroudi: Vice versa as well. Um, but it’s such an interesting time [00:37:45] because now we’ve got the number of followers you have is the is nowhere near as important [00:37:50] as it used to be. And that used to be a very convenient excuse for all [00:37:55] of us. Right. I’ve only got, I don’t know, enlightened, only got 25,000 followers. So we can’t get the reach [00:38:00] that someone else has got. But now the reach is determined by the content.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, [00:38:05] absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: That’s so interesting.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, it is so interesting. It’s so weird how it’s such a huge part [00:38:10] of what we do now as well. I find that very strange sometimes to think about. Um, but I guess it’s more [00:38:15] digestible, accessible information for the public. Like, it’s an easy entry pathway to [00:38:20] get education and learn more about things. So yeah, that’s probably why it’s such a huge thing now. [00:38:25]

Payman Langroudi: Have you gone on LinkedIn?

Sonia Rajput: I made one, and I think since I made it, I don’t think I’ve opened it properly. So [00:38:30] now I need to do that again properly.

Payman Langroudi: The reach is interesting though.

[TRANSITION]: Really? Yeah yeah, yeah.

Sonia Rajput: I do get the email [00:38:35] saying, you know, someone’s done this with your profile, but I should really look into it a bit more. Again, I’m very [00:38:40] I’m very like I’m just going with the flow with 90% of the things that I do.

[TRANSITION]: As you can.

Sonia Rajput: Probably tell, I don’t know how [00:38:45] I do what I do. I’m just kind of like, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting you say that, right? Because [00:38:50] on this subject that we’re talking about now, you’re very like, yeah.

[TRANSITION]: True, true.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:38:55] yet you’ve got it down as something I’m just bumbling my way through.

[TRANSITION]: I feel like.

Sonia Rajput: I am.

[TRANSITION]: Though.

Sonia Rajput: I feel like [00:39:00] if I’m really busy for three months, I probably would have neglected my socials. And then if I know, okay, I want to push it [00:39:05] a little bit more. I think partly because I was moving to a new area, I knew I needed to build my name up a little bit more. [00:39:10] So I spent the last year, 18 months, trying to establish myself in London because I was well known [00:39:15] in Birmingham, but then to move to a whole new area, nobody really knows who you are or what you do or, you know, referrals from patients, [00:39:20] things like that. It takes a long time to build up a name. So I think I spent a lot more time and effort. So for [00:39:25] me now, I focus a lot more on what are visual cues, what are the hooks, what are the things I should be talking about? How [00:39:30] can I kind of raise awareness and content in this area? So yeah, so that’s why I’m probably at the forefront [00:39:35] of it now in my head.

Payman Langroudi: You used the eye at all.

Sonia Rajput: No.

Payman Langroudi: You really should. [00:39:40]

Sonia Rajput: See I’m super okay. Yeah I should which I, which which I one. Like which one. [00:39:45] Oh, just any.

Payman Langroudi: Chatgpt Gemini.

Sonia Rajput: Come up with some ideas for this.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:39:50] many.

Sonia Rajput: Interesting things.

Payman Langroudi: That I had. So my, my family’s away at the moment. Yeah. Okay. So [00:39:55] I’m by myself at home. Yeah. I had a one hour conversation with ChatGPT.

Sonia Rajput: One [00:40:00] hour.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. One hour.

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And and the it was unbelievable. [00:40:05] Really unbelievable. Like it was like a shrink. Okay. And it [00:40:10] doesn’t stop because it keeps on asking a question at the end of its thing. You know, the voice version. So [00:40:15] I’ll tell you what. If you’ve got a half new iPhone. Okay. Yeah. There’s [00:40:20] that button, then the new button.

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: That button.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. I don’t have the new one.

Payman Langroudi: That’s.

Sonia Rajput: Got [00:40:25] the old one.

Payman Langroudi: But I think anyway, now they’ve, they’ve incorporated in Siri as well. Okay. I’ve mapped that button [00:40:30] to the voice of ChatGPT. Yeah. So like straight to any question straight away. [00:40:35] Just push that button and it’s in. It’s like it starts by itself. Um, but [00:40:40] the question doesn’t have to be tell me about Dubrovnik.

Sonia Rajput: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: I started [00:40:45] with tell me the difference between happiness, joy, contentment, pleasure. Yeah. [00:40:50]

Sonia Rajput: And that’s how that one hour conversation started. Oh, nice. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And and he went like, I’m [00:40:55] curious, are you struggling with this question? And I was like, yeah, yeah, a little bit because I’m confusing the difference. [00:41:00] And we went into my past. Yeah. And I suddenly realised, Jesus, man, Not only is, [00:41:05] uh, you know, salespeople going to lose their jobs, so are shrinks.

Sonia Rajput: That’s a shrink in your pocket, that is for sure. [00:41:10]

Payman Langroudi: So a podcast host, like, loads and loads and loads of people are going to lose their jobs. [00:41:15] You know, that’s. So let’s move on to these [00:41:20] current jobs and conversation.

[VIDEO PLAYING]: Breaking down the differences between happiness, [00:41:25] joy, contentment and pleasure can get philosophical. Did you come to any conclusions [00:41:30] in that chat, or was it more of an exploration.

Payman Langroudi: To see what finishes with the question? [00:41:35] Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Nice.

Payman Langroudi: Um, the jobs themselves. [00:41:40]

[TRANSITION]: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: I’d expect a little bit of trepidation here [00:41:45] before.

[TRANSITION]: So how do.

[VIDEO PLAYING]: People.

Payman Langroudi: How [00:41:50] do we turn it.

[TRANSITION]: Off?

Sonia Rajput: That’s why you were on there for an hour. We don’t know how to turn it off.

[TRANSITION]: Exactly, but.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:41:55] just keeps the conversation.

[TRANSITION]: Going. No. That’s good.

Payman Langroudi: Um, a bit of trepidation before walking [00:42:00] into these super jobs.

Sonia Rajput: Oh, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Did you have imposter syndrome?

Sonia Rajput: 100%. [00:42:05] Imposter syndrome? Yeah. You still. I still pinch myself to be like, am I really here doing what I’m doing? Is this, [00:42:10] you know, is this what I’m doing now at this point in my life? And, yeah. No, I’m so grateful. So happy [00:42:15] to be where I am. But I do sometimes think, am I good enough? You do question that for sure.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:42:20] so I remember the first time I went to a proper job, I’d call these proper.

[TRANSITION]: Jobs [00:42:25] proper jobs.

Payman Langroudi: The pricing blew me away. Like I couldn’t believe the prices [00:42:30] people were charging. And you know, a bit like when you come out of PhD and just [00:42:35] first time ever, you ask someone the price of something and you’re almost like scared of the number. [00:42:40]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah for sure.

Payman Langroudi: That happens every time you move to a more expensive practice.

Sonia Rajput: Sure you do. You [00:42:45] do think really are people like, you know, it’s big numbers to be charging for sure.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:42:50] I always it’s always funny for me how quickly you get used to those numbers.

Sonia Rajput: Right now.

[TRANSITION]: I’m not.

Sonia Rajput: Doing.

[TRANSITION]: Anything [00:42:55] less than this. No. I’m joking. It is pretty crazy.

Payman Langroudi: It’s acceleration. That’s exciting, [00:43:00] isn’t it? It’s not the speed itself. It’s like when you see those numbers for the first few times, you’re like, wow. But [00:43:05] then now the worst thing, the bad thing about it is, you know, God forbid something goes down. You want to leave these practices. [00:43:10] It’s really hard going the other way. Yeah. So just let’s let’s hear some [00:43:15] of the pricing. How much? How much is stuff in these prices?

Sonia Rajput: Um, so [00:43:20] the Beaconsfield I would say it’s, it’s, um, good for the area. So [00:43:25] occlusal composite is £200. Yeah, that’s pretty good.

Payman Langroudi: Uh, [00:43:30] occlusal plus one.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: £200. Veneers are like [00:43:35] nine, nine, five.

[TRANSITION]: Which.

Payman Langroudi: Is like a big mod composite.

Sonia Rajput: Um, probably like three 5300. [00:43:40] 350. Yeah. And then.

[TRANSITION]: Only.

Sonia Rajput: Only about eight, nine five. [00:43:45] I’d say quite reasonable. Those ones are from. If it’s a single tooth then 1400. [00:43:50] But if it’s, um, multiple then probably 995 per veneer.

Payman Langroudi: Whitening.

Sonia Rajput: Whitening. [00:43:55] Enlightened 700. Standard whitening 495.

[TRANSITION]: 195. Yeah. [00:44:00]

Payman Langroudi: Okay, so that’s Beaconsfield.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Central London. Um, includes [00:44:05] a composite 379379.

Payman Langroudi: For an occlusal.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: 379 for occlusal. [00:44:10] Mod would probably be like, 450. Uh onlays. I think [00:44:15] like 1100 crowns, probably 1100 veneers, about 1100 each. [00:44:20]

[TRANSITION]: Still not.

Payman Langroudi: As high as I thought it.

[TRANSITION]: Would be.

Sonia Rajput: Single tooth would be like 1800, maybe. Yeah. [00:44:25] Not too. But then you can’t outprice yourself, I guess, because there’s so much competition now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:44:30] so. But then how often are you doing multiple veneer cases in. [00:44:35] It must be quite a lot right in.

Sonia Rajput: There is a lot going.

[TRANSITION]: On there for.

Sonia Rajput: Sure. Yeah. There’s a lot. All the time. [00:44:40] Um, for me, I’m still building building my list, let’s say for example. So um, maybe [00:44:45] done like two, two in the three month, three, four months I’ve been there.

Payman Langroudi: And so [00:44:50] did you. With both of these jobs, were there no patients?

Sonia Rajput: Um, Beaconsfield? No, [00:44:55] it was like pretty much a squat practice. So, um, it’s it was like 18 months, two years old when [00:45:00] I joined. So they’re still building. Tim’s has been around for 20 years, so I have taken over the dentist who’s left. [00:45:05] But, um, a lot of the patients, um, are still sometimes still want [00:45:10] to. They were trying to find that dentist, let’s say. So then I’m still building up partially, but also I’ve taken over a list there [00:45:15] as well. But they get a lot of new patients there because it’s been around for so long. There’s a huge kind of referral system going [00:45:20] on there.

Payman Langroudi: And Mark Hughes practice. Where do they get patients from? Marketing.

Sonia Rajput: Marketing?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:45:25] Prav works with them as well. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Um, so are there quite a lot of new patients [00:45:30] there is.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. When the marketing is working really well, there’s a lot of new patients, which is really good, but it’s just finding [00:45:35] the balance of, um, initial free consultations and then paid consultations. So it does [00:45:40] I think being in a squat is very different to being in a well-established one. So I can really see the difference of the two. Um, [00:45:45] but, um, it was a great place for it’s been a great place for me to kind of [00:45:50] like have the time to do learn things and yeah, in that kind of way and learn other [00:45:55] aspects from Mark, which has been really good.

Payman Langroudi: Do you know a guy called Mike wise?

[TRANSITION]: No. [00:46:00]

Payman Langroudi: He was like, in my day, when I was your age, he was the undisputed [00:46:05] top dentist in the country.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, really? Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Everyone agreed there wasn’t anyone who would say there was a better dentist [00:46:10] than him. And his thing was, if you’re super busy, make [00:46:15] your appointments longer so that you can get through the work quicker. And obviously, [00:46:20] if you’re not super busy, make your appointments longer so that you can, you know, get to know these [00:46:25] people.

Sonia Rajput: Spend time.

[TRANSITION]: With them, spend.

Payman Langroudi: Time with them so that they refer friends and family.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:46:30]

Payman Langroudi: And I think that it’s an interesting thing because people want to leave NHS, go [00:46:35] to private. And sometimes I’ve done, I’ve introduced people to, to people who’ve got, you know, ten private [00:46:40] practices, always within ten practice private practices. There is space for [00:46:45] someone to build a new book. But people are worried about [00:46:50] that, right? Because it’s not patience. What’s your advice? What’s your advice? To go for a job like [00:46:55] that and make the most of it.

Sonia Rajput: You have to. I think if you know you want to go into that [00:47:00] kind of, um, if you’re say you’re new to private dentistry, I think you have to be willing to grow [00:47:05] slowly. Before Tim’s place, I was at another squad practice. Um, but then two squad [00:47:10] practices for me was just too much like, financially, it wasn’t working for me. Um, so I had to make that [00:47:15] decision to continue with masks. And then I was lucky enough to get Tim soon after. So then I had [00:47:20] the a stable one and then one that’s kind of like, um, Marx’s stable now. I’ve been there for over 12, [00:47:25] 18 months now, so. But at the beginning it was it was still new. Um, yeah. But you do need to put [00:47:30] in the time and effort and be prepared that it’s not going to be as quick as it was before, because especially when you’ve been in a [00:47:35] regular job. So I was in Scotland for five years before it was like referrals were coming through. It’s really easy for me, like [00:47:40] it’s kind of guaranteed, essentially essential work was there.

Payman Langroudi: How far ahead were you booked in Scott Arms. [00:47:45]

Sonia Rajput: Like 2 or 3 months in advance. I was really busy there. Like it was really good.

[TRANSITION]: And so.

Payman Langroudi: It’s getting your head around [00:47:50] the idea of only being booked sometimes 2 or 3 days in.

[TRANSITION]: Advance. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: As if that was like, oh my God, there’s so [00:47:55] many gaps next week. It scared me for sure. And, um, it was a big thing to get used to, a big financial [00:48:00] hit for me as well, because of moving to a new area and saying goodbye to certain, you know, regular [00:48:05] patients and work that you do. So yeah, it was a struggle. But I think you have to put in the [00:48:10] time and effort and therefore put more effort into socials or putting more effort into the patients that I was with. So I’d [00:48:15] spend longer with them, talking to them, asking about the family. And then they were like, actually, can I bring my kids to come and see you? [00:48:20] You know, that kind of thing. And it works really nicely.

Payman Langroudi: Where do you see your clinical [00:48:25] career going next?

Sonia Rajput: Good question. Um, I really like doing [00:48:30] a bit of everything, to be honest with you. I really like generally just talking to, um, [00:48:35] people, building upon, um, the regular recalls and relationships that you have with them. I love that aspect. [00:48:40] There was a period of time where I just did cosmetic dentistry, and I liked seeing them, but a lot of people [00:48:45] don’t continue after they’ve finished their journey, and I do kind of miss seeing people regularly. Um, so [00:48:50] I would always still keep a little bit of general. I do quite like seeing kids and families and things like that. So. And [00:48:55] then doing a line bleach blonde. But I do want to take on more of the more advanced cases. So I’ve done a few [00:49:00] kind of like full mouth rehabs, but I want to be doing a lot more of that because I just feel like it’s challenging, and I feel [00:49:05] like sometimes I need a good challenge to progress in the next stage of your career. So yeah, I’d like [00:49:10] to do more of that.

Payman Langroudi: So are you thinking Pankey like Mark Hughes [00:49:15] or.

[TRANSITION]: They.

Sonia Rajput: Have spoken about Pankey? Um.

[TRANSITION]: Just because.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, all [00:49:20] those, all those nice advanced heavy ones. So but like I said, it takes a while for me to understand [00:49:25] something and for it to click. But when it does, I think it’s going to go really well for me. So I need [00:49:30] to just find a place that kind of matches my kind of learning needs. So I do need to look into those probably the next two years. [00:49:35]

Payman Langroudi: By the way, this this place is here. You can do it as well. You don’t have to travel all the way to America.

[TRANSITION]: I know, but yeah. [00:49:40]

Sonia Rajput: Sounds.

[TRANSITION]: Fun as well.

Payman Langroudi: There’s this thing FMR. Summit. Um, I mean, [00:49:45] it’s all about full mouth rehabs, right?

[TRANSITION]: Um, even.

Sonia Rajput: Just full on occlusal occlusion courses. [00:49:50] Um, just to take it to understand that next level. Yeah, things [00:49:55] like that is probably my next step.

Payman Langroudi: What about facial aesthetics? Because [00:50:00] some people really make it work. And then a lot of people are very uncomfortable with [00:50:05] it. It’s a bit outside our remit.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about all this. What is all this about? [00:50:10] And like what is all that like? Like, are you having conversations with your patients about [00:50:15] the cream they put on their face?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: No. When you say it like that, it does sound pretty bizarre. But I got into skincare [00:50:20] because, um, my family’s medical, my brother’s a GP derm. [00:50:25] So skincare has always been in my family. I learned a lot about it from my own self over lockdown. [00:50:30] And then I thought, why not share this knowledge with other people? So I actually just started talking about it on kind of [00:50:35] like socials. I don’t talk about it a lot in my clinic, if I’m being honest with you. So my Dental environments, [00:50:40] I find it difficult to come up with a conversation. The probably most entry pathway I would get into facial aesthetics [00:50:45] is talking about the masters. Um, when I’m assessing their, you know, TMJ and feeling the [00:50:50] masters, then I’ll be like, actually, you should consider kind of Botox. Then I do facial aesthetics, all this kind of other [00:50:55] things that are available for you. So that’s the only real pathway I find is quite easy to add it to a dental examination. [00:51:00] Yeah. But if I was to be like to you, I have maybe once or twice said to somebody [00:51:05] only once I’ve met them a good few times. You’ve, I’ve noticed that dark pigmentation area on, on like [00:51:10] the side of the face when I was assessing this. Like, does that concern you and mention it whether they pull up like [00:51:15] ask me more questions about it, I won’t push it, but I do find it difficult to bring that up in conversation for sure. I [00:51:20] think it is tricky, but I think, um, the easiest one entry point would be kind of master Botox [00:51:25] and then progressing from there.

Payman Langroudi: How far have you gone into it yourself? I mean, are you able to do Botox? [00:51:30]

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I can do everything. Um, and then I did, um, work at a facial aesthetics clinic [00:51:35] for, like, one day a week for about six months. And I really enjoyed it. And it gave me really good exposure and knowledge and confidence [00:51:40] with it. So that’s why I’ve now preferred to kind of keep it separate to dentistry, like I’ll do it in central London. [00:51:45] I find there’s a huge demand for it. Patients are happy to come in to one dental clinic and do it, do everything [00:51:50] there. But in a squat practice where you’re still trying to build up dentistry, to then try and sell them aesthetics as [00:51:55] well, I do feel like it’s too much Sally. Sally and I don’t like being too Sally. Um, so then I prefer [00:52:00] to kind of keep it in a separate.

Payman Langroudi: But had you had all this training before you even got these two jobs?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:05]

Payman Langroudi: So was that a part of, like, the reason why people gave you the jobs, but like, maybe I.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. [00:52:10] That’s true. Actually, Tim really liked that I had the facial aesthetics knowledge. He thought it’d be a good thing to add to his practice. [00:52:15] Um, Mark did like that as well, but I don’t think we have loads of that there. Um, maybe it will grow more in the future. [00:52:20] But yeah, Tim for sure did like that. I did that aspect. So somebody in the clinic would be able to do those, those treatments. [00:52:25]

Payman Langroudi: Neither of them are marketing specifically for it.

Sonia Rajput: No. But since I got there, I said, [00:52:30] why don’t we send out a few emails? Because they have a huge patient list. If you’ve got a huge patient list, it makes sense to [00:52:35] kind of send something out. So yeah, we do send um, let’s say email marketing out to them a few times. Um, [00:52:40] because, yeah, I’ve been there for six months now. So we’ve sent like three, three email marketing’s out.

Payman Langroudi: What would you say for [00:52:45] someone who knows nothing about it to the point that you are now with your sort of experience [00:52:50] in.

[TRANSITION]: It, in.

Sonia Rajput: Aesthetics.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Facial.

Sonia Rajput: Facial aesthetics.

Payman Langroudi: What’s, first of all, what’s [00:52:55] the timeline from zero, 0 to 60?

[TRANSITION]: Like it is.

Sonia Rajput: Hard. I think it’s.

[TRANSITION]: Really [00:53:00] hard to.

Payman Langroudi: Training. Did you actually.

[TRANSITION]: Do? Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Training. I did a basic, um, [00:53:05] filler and Botox course. You can do that in 1 or 2 days. And I did acquisition aesthetics. [00:53:10] So that was probably about five years ago. Um, and I don’t think I felt confident coming out of that [00:53:15] for sure. You don’t, because suddenly we’re going from giving local anaesthetic to now going [00:53:20] on to bone levels and, you know, different layers of the face. Um, whereas when I did, [00:53:25] I did a derma medical course where I literally spent one whole day doing treatment on five [00:53:30] different faces and I could do any kind of filler I wanted to. It was like an advanced filler course. Um, that gave me the [00:53:35] kind of confidence that was about a year ago, gave me the confidence to treat literally anything. [00:53:40] But throughout that, I’ve been doing courses on kind of noses with like doctor to her Jabba. She’s really [00:53:45] good for noses. Non-surgical rhinoplasty, um, and the skin course I did in lockdown, [00:53:50] but I was doing training in lockdown and I just spent I had time to learn about it. But you have to be sitting, [00:53:55] sit there and willing to put in the time to learn about it. You can’t just be like one day course and I got it like it [00:54:00] does take time and effort, but because I enjoy learning about it and I like taking skin care aspects for myself, [00:54:05] I found it really, really useful.

Payman Langroudi: So what bits of it are sort of easy, you [00:54:10] know, low hanging fruits and what bits of it are worrying.

Sonia Rajput: I think Botox [00:54:15] is probably the easiest thing for any dentist to kind of get into.

[TRANSITION]: Unforgiving?

Sonia Rajput: I think so, [00:54:20] yeah. And it wears off. Um, but obviously once it’s in there, you can’t reverse it until three months later. I think filler [00:54:25] scares people more because it could do vascular occlusions. And unless you’re comfortable with, let’s say, [00:54:30] surgical stuff, um, it is a different kind of ball game. And to be confident in the different levels of [00:54:35] the facial layers of the skin and things like.

[TRANSITION]: That, I.

Payman Langroudi: Feel this isn’t only lips, right?

[TRANSITION]: Oh [00:54:40] no, it.

Sonia Rajput: Could be like the cheek. It could be kind of like tear trough. It could be like the jawline. The chin.

Payman Langroudi: Which areas? The worrying [00:54:45] areas near the eyes.

Sonia Rajput: Probably the nose.

[TRANSITION]: It’s quite scary.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, because it has, like the blood vessels that [00:54:50] can, um, cause blockages. Um, but also I feel like things [00:54:55] like chin and cheek are relatively straightforward. And I think things like chin would work really well for dentistry [00:55:00] because, you know, class two, skeletal patterns and things like that, you can kind of tie that into after you’ve done [00:55:05] someone’s ortho. So I think those are kind of the good basic ones to get into. But yes, it can [00:55:10] be really, really scary for sure. And I think you have to have good mentors. Luckily, I have access to good mentors. So, um, [00:55:15] to, um, like surgical doctors that I have access to, if I, um, [00:55:20] get any major struggles, they’d be like, right, I need some advice. What would you recommend? And they’re great. And they’re the ones I trained with [00:55:25] in Cockfosters. So they’re like a surgical medical team. So I’m quite fortunate to have some really [00:55:30] good mentors, to be honest with you.

Payman Langroudi: So now the kind of work you’re doing, there must be an [00:55:35] element of, for instance, plastic. Do you refer that [00:55:40] if you want to lift the gum or something.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Like gum.

[TRANSITION]: Lifts.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, yeah. [00:55:45] Send them. I refer those out, but I do internally. Internally Tim can do them. But in [00:55:50] Mark’s place I’ll send them out to kind of, um, like R.W. Perry, for example.

[TRANSITION]: Mhm. [00:55:55]

Payman Langroudi: And and how involved are you in that discussion? I mean.

[TRANSITION]: Quite a.

Sonia Rajput: Lot actually. [00:56:00] You know, I work really closely with one of the periodontists there. So like, well what’s up about a case. And I’ll be like how [00:56:05] much do you think we should lift this up. And so yeah, I’ve been. He also worked at Scott Arms with me. So I built a good relationship. [00:56:10] So I feel like I learned a lot in that stage and just build upon it. It’s always hard when you have to find new [00:56:15] people to send to, but luckily I’ve been able to keep that. So his name’s Devin and he’s works at RW [00:56:20] perio. And I’ve been a great he’s a great periodontist to work with and to learn a lot of things as well. If I have questions I [00:56:25] can ask him. I think.

[TRANSITION]: What else.

Payman Langroudi: Are you referring and what else are you doing? I mean, are you are you doing endo? [00:56:30]

Sonia Rajput: No, I don’t like.

[TRANSITION]: Endo.

Payman Langroudi: Referring it.

[TRANSITION]: All. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Just in-house. In-house Endo surgical [00:56:35] with some teeth I don’t do. So I’ll send that referrals in-house. Um, so yeah, [00:56:40] other than endo and Such cool wisdom teeth. I’ll do pretty much everything else, so I’ll do normal extractions. [00:56:45]

[TRANSITION]: Here we go.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I don’t mind perio.

Payman Langroudi: You don’t.

[TRANSITION]: Refer?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I quite like perio. Unless it’s really [00:56:50] bad. Then I’ll refer to RW perio.

Payman Langroudi: I do enjoy referring perio. You know, [00:56:55] I used to do a lot of perio. Yeah, I do a lot of deep scaling, whatever it was.

[TRANSITION]: It’s quite nice sometimes.

Sonia Rajput: Not all the time, [00:57:00] but it’s nice. Like, let’s say.

[TRANSITION]: Once, but.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s say, let’s say you’ve got an older patient, right? And now you’re [00:57:05] considering bridge or implant or whatever. Yeah. But for me I wanted the periodontist to make that decision. [00:57:10]

[TRANSITION]: Fine. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And the always often talk about, you know, what’s the difference [00:57:15] between a good periodontist and a great periodontist? For me, it’s the [00:57:20] great periodontist. The patient comes back pre-sold on all the rest of the treatment.

[TRANSITION]: Okay. True.

Payman Langroudi: You [00:57:25] know, like. That’s correct. You want the periodontist, say, right. This tooth and this tooth can take a bridge.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Until [00:57:30] the patient. That’s the right thing to do. Patient comes back. The expert said, let’s go ahead.

[TRANSITION]: True. [00:57:35]

Payman Langroudi: You know, so sometimes there was benefit in referring.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: To get this sort [00:57:40] of expert to corroborate your treatment plan. You know, and I always think in practices there should be [00:57:45] more of that.

Sonia Rajput: That’s true. Encouraging the other. Yeah. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: Hygienist.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:57:50]

Payman Langroudi: I’m the hygienist. Hygienist should be incentivised.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: On making on [00:57:55] on on turnover. Yeah. So then the hygienist you know follows [00:58:00] up and says what you just said.

[TRANSITION]: True.

Payman Langroudi: And you know why not. I don’t understand why not.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:58:05] I mean I do understand why it doesn’t happen.

[TRANSITION]: But.

Payman Langroudi: People get themselves all sorts of situations [00:58:10] with even whitening, you know, like who’s who’s doing the whitening, the hygienist or the or the dentist. Yeah, [00:58:15] but surely there’s a way of making it, like a three way relationship between you, the patient, the hygienist. [00:58:20] Yeah. And the principal as well.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get on to [00:58:25] the darker part. Undiscussed errors. Mistakes you’ve. [00:58:30]

[TRANSITION]: Made.

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about clinical mistakes so that everyone can learn from [00:58:35] each other’s mistakes.

[TRANSITION]: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: Because generally we tend to hide our mistakes, don’t we?

[TRANSITION]: Sure. [00:58:40]

Payman Langroudi: So in the spirit of learning from each other’s mistakes, what [00:58:45] comes to mind when I say what some of the biggest sort of clinical errors you’ve made?

Sonia Rajput: Um, [00:58:50] so there’s a reason I don’t talk. I don’t do endo because it’s I’ve perforated [00:58:55] a few. So those are huge clinical ones, which put me off it. I think literally as I was [00:59:00] leaving my foundation practice before going to private practice, my first, um, my last patient [00:59:05] was redoing this RCT, and it’s probably the last week before I was leaving and I perforated and I was [00:59:10] like, crap, I am I even ready to be going into private dentistry? And it was really, really scary. Um, but you [00:59:15] have to own up to it. And then I said to the patient, I’m really sorry. This is what’s happened. It’s like literally two central, [00:59:20] um, incisors doing. Um, but.

[TRANSITION]: Luckily. [00:59:25]

Payman Langroudi: Both.

[TRANSITION]: Of them.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. It was like going through these old crowns.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, honestly.

Sonia Rajput: It was so bad. It was so.

[TRANSITION]: Bad. [00:59:30]

Sonia Rajput: Oh, God, it was so bad. But, you know, he was fine. And he was like, oh, there’s no issue. So you [00:59:35] can be quite lucky in that respect. And I owned up to and explained the situation.

[TRANSITION]: Um, what.

Payman Langroudi: Did [00:59:40] you learn?

Sonia Rajput: It made me too stressed. I didn’t like how stressed I was doing it. And I thought, [00:59:45] there’s no point in going to work being this stressed about something, and I didn’t want to do any more after [00:59:50] that, to be honest with you.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But if we if we’re going to sort of say a learning [00:59:55] point from that. Yeah. Because some kid is going to be doing his first.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Drilling through the crown. [01:00:00] It’s the root axis that your brain should be completely focussed [01:00:05] on.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Not the crown axis.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes those [01:00:10] two things aren’t coincident.

Sonia Rajput: It’s because the front two central sizes were crowned. So [01:00:15] I don’t you don’t know what the original shape was like obviously underneath. So yes, they look straight, but actually [01:00:20] um, the root was obviously at the angle. So yes, you don’t go straight, you’ve got to go at the angle [01:00:25] of the root. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like constantly in your head you have to keep visualising where is [01:00:30] the root. Where is the root. Where is the.

[TRANSITION]: Root. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: That’s that was very.

[TRANSITION]: Scary for.

Sonia Rajput: Sure. Um [01:00:35] I guess difficult clinical scenarios. Not necessarily. [01:00:40] It was probably more so dealing with difficult patients, really, to be honest with you. So [01:00:45] I had I obviously when you work in a practice, people who work with you want to have some [01:00:50] work done. So let’s say your nurses or your, um, colleagues. So I had a colleague who wanted [01:00:55] me to do her treatment. So her Invisalign, um, and I said, yeah, okay, fine. I didn’t [01:01:00] really know her that well, I took her. I did it for her. But when you remove attachments, there’s always a risk [01:01:05] of scratches to the enamel. I scratch the enamel. Um, I didn’t see that I had scratched it, but she [01:01:10] was very upset about it, and so it got escalated. Um, and I said, okay, I’m [01:01:15] really sorry. I can buff it out for you. Um, it didn’t they didn’t want it to be buffed [01:01:20] out. Didn’t want me to touch the enamel any further. And so, yeah, I mean, that escalated for sure. So there are difficult [01:01:25] scenarios. There are difficult patients. Um.

[TRANSITION]: And it can be very question.

Payman Langroudi: Right. Because, okay, [01:01:30] that was someone in the dental profession. So they’re doubly focussed in. But you don’t think of removing [01:01:35] attachments is a difficult thing to do.

[TRANSITION]: Like the least stressful part of the whole of.

Sonia Rajput: The whole treatment, [01:01:40] right?

Payman Langroudi: So has that affected you? Like when you remove attachments?

[TRANSITION]: It does. I panic. [01:01:45]

Sonia Rajput: Every time I remove.

[TRANSITION]: An attachment.

Payman Langroudi: Outside the panic. But do you say something to the patient?

[TRANSITION]: Do you.

Payman Langroudi: Do [01:01:50] you do it differently now than.

[TRANSITION]: I probably.

Sonia Rajput: Do? Say to patients more now. Like there’s always a risk of micro scratches [01:01:55] on the surface of.

[TRANSITION]: Your stuff out.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. Which we can always buff out. And 99.9% [01:02:00] of people are going to be happy with that. Um, but yeah, I guess you learn from each [01:02:05] situation.

Payman Langroudi: It’s important though, isn’t it? Yeah, because we should all learn from that.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We should all learn [01:02:10] from.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: True story.

[TRANSITION]: For sure.

Payman Langroudi: What about like, in [01:02:15] the sort of under promise over deliver area? Um, because sometimes [01:02:20] let’s say you’re building up this patient list.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: At Mark Hughes’s place, and [01:02:25] you’re only booked two days ahead. Sometimes in that situation, you take on a case [01:02:30] against your better judgement or you over promise on [01:02:35] the result against your better judgement. Your better judgement would.

[TRANSITION]: Say to.

Payman Langroudi: Under-promise [01:02:40] on the result, right? Because that happened. I mean, we’re talking cosmetic dentistry as [01:02:45] well, right? So it’s such a subjective thing.

[TRANSITION]: True.

Payman Langroudi: Have you had have you had a situation where you’ve done the [01:02:50] smile and then the patient afterwards come back and said, not happy with the way it looks?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, [01:02:55] I have had that. I think more so. Um, luckily my earlier years I’ve had that, um, I touch [01:03:00] wood. I haven’t had anything in the last few years, but I’ve learned from. I never used to do like a trial smile [01:03:05] stage for anyone. So now for every patient, I’ll do a trial smile so they kind of know what I think looks [01:03:10] nice for them. And then they’ll also have that idea as well. Um, and then I always most people, you see all these [01:03:15] reaction videos where people say, wow, I love my teeth. But I can tell you that 90% of people, when they have [01:03:20] their composites done, they are shocked because they do not look too big. No, just generally they don’t look how they did. [01:03:25] They didn’t. They don’t know what they think they’re going to look like when you have your teeth done. So I always say before I [01:03:30] even give them the mirror, you might not like what you see initially it looks really nice from here, but just give yourself [01:03:35] a week to get used to it and any changes you want to make, let me know.

Sonia Rajput: I’m not going to sit here and do all these little changes for you right [01:03:40] now. Just go home and enjoy it. And then they already have that in their head that okay, maybe [01:03:45] I’m not going to like it. I say, look, it looks nice, but don’t panic if you’re not 100% happy. We’re going [01:03:50] to come back in a week and we’ll make some changes. The good thing with compensators you can change things anyway. So because I had a few [01:03:55] cases a few years ago where like, I don’t know if I like it, oh my God, I look so different. [01:04:00] And you know, me and the nurse are there. Like, it looks really, really good. So you have to give them a few days. They came [01:04:05] back a week later. They’re like, yeah, no, I love it. But it is a huge shock to people smiling. I think sometimes people don’t [01:04:10] know what to expect. Like you look at a perfect set of teeth online and then once you put that into your face, it is [01:04:15] different. Um, and not everyone understands that that’s how they’re going to feel. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I think [01:04:20] it’s also like you should give a health warning that that your friends and family will also be [01:04:25] like that the first time they see.

[TRANSITION]: It.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, because the first time the patient sees it, they might, you know, you’ve [01:04:30] already told them. You might not like it.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Then they get used to it. I’ve had patients say delighted [01:04:35] over the moon. Go home. Someone said something. Come back. Don’t like them.

[TRANSITION]: Anymore.

Payman Langroudi: You know, [01:04:40] you need to warn people that that might happen to you.

[TRANSITION]: True.

Sonia Rajput: But it’s like whenever I go to get my hair [01:04:45] done, they always ask you in the chair, do you like it? And you’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it. I don’t like it. I get, I [01:04:50] get in the car. The first thing I do is look through, look in the mirror up close, and I look at everything. And the only a week later [01:04:55] I’m like, okay, fine, I really like it. So it’s for me, it’s the same thing as when you go to get your teeth done or something [01:05:00] done, and they’re not going to say it straight away to my face. They need time for it to like, sink in, get used to it, and then their [01:05:05] face, um, and then come back a week later. And if there’s anything major, obviously I would fix it for them. But touch wood. I’ve [01:05:10] had no issues since I’ve started saying that to people.

Payman Langroudi: You know the funny thing, yeah, we think [01:05:15] giving our time is valuable and we measure things by the hour. But [01:05:20] when I’m a consumer, I want things done quicker. Yeah. And [01:05:25] it’s a funny thing. Yeah. Because like I’ve sometimes I’ve been at the hairdresser. Yeah. I [01:05:30] mean, you wouldn’t believe it. Yeah. Look at me now. But sometimes I’d be at the hairdresser and the guy’s taking too long. Yeah. [01:05:35] Being this sort of, I don’t know.

Sonia Rajput: I agree.

Payman Langroudi: Doing doing this, that and the other. Offering [01:05:40] me a cup of tea. Whatever. Like he’s doing the private dentistry thing.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah I agree.

Payman Langroudi: And really, I just want to be out [01:05:45] as quick as possible. I’m always time poor.

[TRANSITION]: Agreed.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And as at [01:05:50] the dentist, we’ve got this worry that if I send this patient out [01:05:55] with a £300 bill and he’s only been in my chair for 15 minutes, he might not see the value in that. [01:06:00] But it depends on the patient. Right.

[TRANSITION]: I think you have to assess the patient.

Sonia Rajput: Some people want to be out. And I just say [01:06:05] to them, I’m going to do this as fast as I can for you because I know you want to be out of here. So then they’re like, girl, thank you so much. [01:06:10] Even if the bill has been X amount for I know they’ve only been in the chair for half an hour rather than 90 minutes. [01:06:15] They appreciate that I’ve done it faster for them. But you’re right. You have to assess the patient and what’s important to them. [01:06:20]

Payman Langroudi: Beaconsfield patient is different to London patients.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the main difference?

Sonia Rajput: You get people [01:06:25] from all sorts of places in central London, don’t you? Like everyone. Um. And then making the time and effort [01:06:30] to travel somewhere in central London. So they probably would want you to spend more time doing the treatment, [01:06:35] whereas in Beaconsfield maybe get more, um, people who want to be done a bit faster, um, because [01:06:40] it’s somewhere local. They want to go more quickly. Um, I do find, yeah, I find it’s they [01:06:45] are different patients wherever you go.

[TRANSITION]: Depending more.

Payman Langroudi: Exacting in Beaconsfield. Like harder [01:06:50] to please.

[TRANSITION]: Harder to do in London.

Sonia Rajput: No, I’d say it’s probably [01:06:55] about the same. I don’t think that’s a big there’s a big difference with that.

Payman Langroudi: What about the willingness to go ahead like the conversion? [01:07:00]

[TRANSITION]: Conversion?

Sonia Rajput: I do find a little bit more tricky further out when there’s when there’s less people [01:07:05] and still more competition. I think they are price hunting. Whereas I think in central London, which [01:07:10] you would think is crazy because there’s so many places, there’s just so many people here. So I feel like once they kind of set and [01:07:15] chosen the place they want to go to, they will just go to that place. But I do feel like people shop more in the outskirts, [01:07:20] outskirts, because there’s a dental practice opposite the road or dental practice, um, just near their house in another [01:07:25] way. So then they will shop around in there.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, maybe that’s also reflected by the fact that that pack’s been there for 20 years. [01:07:30]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. True, true.

Payman Langroudi: People know what they’re going to get.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, true.

Sonia Rajput: It is, it is. It’s [01:07:35] not always as glamorous as it might look. It does. There’s not every patient is going to say yes to everything. Um, [01:07:40] so I just try and focus on educating them all and making everyone feel like they’ve learned [01:07:45] something from each consultation with me, not just here’s your treatment plan. So that’s what I try and focus on more so. And [01:07:50] then if they if they value it, then they come back.

Payman Langroudi: And the funny thing is, nothing is as glamorous as it looks from [01:07:55] the outside.

[TRANSITION]: Absolutely not. No.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, I know that there’s a thing about, you know, the first time you [01:08:00] get into Harley Street, Wimpole Street, it’s almost like this wonderful dream of childhood coming [01:08:05] true. And yet it’s a nightmare working in the West End. Yeah. [01:08:10] No walk by traffic at all. You know, massive competition everywhere.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:08:15]

Payman Langroudi: Um, most people in the West End booked 1 or 2 days ahead, you know, at the most.

[TRANSITION]: Really? [01:08:20] Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I mean, but there are there are notable exceptions, of course. Yeah. Um, [01:08:25] but, you know, from the outside things look so glossy. And then you get inside. [01:08:30]

Sonia Rajput: Reality can be very different.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I reflect that my kids go to school in South Ken. [01:08:35] Yeah. And I used to be. Every time I go south, I have this special feeling like, oh, South is [01:08:40] really nice. Yeah. Now that I’ve dropped my kids every day. And I was just, like, feeling like nothing. Yeah. [01:08:45] Like, it’s a similar thing, isn’t it? Like, if your practice could be in Knightsbridge [01:08:50] or something.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re so super excited the first day you walk in that there’s going to be this amazing place. [01:08:55]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But I reflect on I used to treat older patients in Kent [01:09:00] in the seaside town.

[TRANSITION]: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: And I was killing it man. Everyone was [01:09:05] so like amazingly like happy and and respectful and had time [01:09:10] and had money and everything was perfect. And then I thought, well look at me. I’m amazing.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:09:15]

Payman Langroudi: Let’s go for central London. I went to central London city and my God, it was different. The patients [01:09:20] were like. I was so hard to talk to.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Time poor. And you know, [01:09:25] all of them were salesmen in the end. And so they were like, looking out for being sold to. And, [01:09:30] you know, on paper, you might say older patients on a coastal town are [01:09:35] nowhere near as easy to sell high end treatments to as city boys. But actually. [01:09:40]

[TRANSITION]: Completely.

Payman Langroudi: The opposite.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, completely.

Sonia Rajput: It’s true. And I think it comes down [01:09:45] to. Yeah, it comes down to a few factors. Some might be the kind of people that you had and the relationships [01:09:50] you built with them were different. They had more trust in you, maybe in a different way, or they were seeing you for a long time. [01:09:55] Um, yeah, for sure. It makes a huge difference.

Payman Langroudi: From the outside [01:10:00] you look so happy.

[TRANSITION]: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: What are you struggling with?

Sonia Rajput: Um. Good [01:10:05] question. I try not to take on too much, too many stresses. [01:10:10] I feel like life is too short. Um, I think it can be really stressful doing [01:10:15] dentistry, so I like to make my life as stress free as possible. So I [01:10:20] do get anxious with things. I do have internal anxieties, but anything I can do to kind of relax myself, [01:10:25] I’ll focus on that and put a priority. Top of my list. Is self-care always going forward?

Payman Langroudi: What are [01:10:30] you? What do you reckon is going to be the sort of next move.

Sonia Rajput: Next move, [01:10:35] next move for me is probably just focusing on what I’m doing now. I don’t think there’s any huge thing [01:10:40] I want to tick off at any point in time. Um, maybe in the future it’s having a [01:10:45] practice. But for me right now, I’m happy doing what I’m doing and keeping this aspect of my life as it is, and then probably [01:10:50] focusing on family as my next, as my next point.

Payman Langroudi: So when you say maybe have [01:10:55] a practice, you’re really saying maybe, as in you’re really not decided?

Sonia Rajput: Not decided. No. [01:11:00] Um, before I probably would have said yes. I definitely want a practice. I definitely want to do that. But I think so [01:11:05] many other stresses come with having a practice. I kind of like having to go home and switch off. Whereas [01:11:10] I think if you have a practice, you take a lot of that home, don’t you? You never switch off if it’s your own business. So [01:11:15] I don’t know if that’s something I’d want to take on anytime soon. So for me, it’s a big question mark. [01:11:20]

[TRANSITION]: Well, how old are you?

Sonia Rajput: Uh, 29.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: You got plenty of time.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You can sit on your hands [01:11:25] for eight years and still be 37.

[TRANSITION]: But, you know, you feel.

Sonia Rajput: The pressures from everyone to to [01:11:30] do things sooner. I don’t.

[TRANSITION]: Know, competitive.

Payman Langroudi: Pressure.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Maybe a competitive person.

Sonia Rajput: I’m not competitive [01:11:35] person. But most people say to me, oh, when are you going to get your own practice? When are you going to do this? Like, do I need to be doing that? [01:11:40] Is that something I should be doing? But no, it’s not a desire for me right now. It used to be, but [01:11:45] not anymore.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s quite interesting to make a decision early. [01:11:50] I know, I know, it’s also incorrect to rule something out.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:11:55] I’ve come across people who make a decision early never to have a practice. And then they focus [01:12:00] on teaching. They focus on other aspects of life. Yeah. Like, for all I know, you’re going [01:12:05] to have two kids and work one day a week or stop working altogether. You know, that’s another way.

[TRANSITION]: Of.

Payman Langroudi: Doing [01:12:10] it. Yeah. Um, but if you’ve got, like, a thing in your head that says, I [01:12:15] will one day have a practice, it’s kind of interesting to make that decision earlier because [01:12:20] just from the simple point, as I said before, about learning from people.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:12:25]

Payman Langroudi: If you’re learning from associates on how to be a super associate is one thing, or [01:12:30] learning from principles about how to be a super principle is another thing. It’s another way of thinking. [01:12:35] And in the same way as I said to you, you know, like if I was in Scott arms, I [01:12:40] would have been shadowing that guy day and.

[TRANSITION]: Night just.

Payman Langroudi: To understand his [01:12:45] brain. Yeah. You’ve got Mark Hughes and Tim Bradstock Smith, you know that you could be [01:12:50] learning things from. Right. Um, it’s interesting that that point [01:12:55] is interesting, right?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. True.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s, let’s let’s move [01:13:00] on. And we’re near the end of our time. If you did have a [01:13:05] dental practice, what do you reckon it would be like?

Sonia Rajput: Um. It’d [01:13:10] be. Yeah, it’d be one of these nice, luxurious places. Of [01:13:15] course it.

[TRANSITION]: Has to be.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, it has to be. It’s like everything you see now, isn’t it? So I’m [01:13:20] quite like chill, friendly. I like, I quite like relaxed environment. So a small, [01:13:25] not too small, but small enough to, um, kind of have like a nice family feel [01:13:30] about it but have that luxury aspect to it. But um, yeah, who knows, who knows. [01:13:35]

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, things don’t necessarily have to be that way, right?

Sonia Rajput: They don’t. Maybe I could have. Maybe I could just buy [01:13:40] a running one that’s, you know, busy, busy already. And maybe that’s something I end up doing.

Payman Langroudi: But I’m saying [01:13:45] you don’t necessarily have to have this luxury practice.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. You don’t. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You could do all [01:13:50] sorts of things. Look at these guys. The twin dentists. Have you.

[TRANSITION]: Seen them?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, I’ve seen them.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Like they’re [01:13:55] exploiting the idea of people who want super cheap dentistry.

[TRANSITION]: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:14:00] And I guess they’re doing very well.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. True.

Sonia Rajput: But their clinics are still very fancy. [01:14:05] They know.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah.

Sonia Rajput: That’s the volume isn’t it. The volume of [01:14:10] um patients is there.

[TRANSITION]: I’m not sure what the.

Payman Langroudi: Business model is. Yeah. But, but there is a business model. Yeah. Which is [01:14:15] um, you know, direct to consumer aligners like Smiledirectclub.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:14:20]

Payman Langroudi: And then you’ve got very high end Invisalign and then this thing in between. And the [01:14:25] business model is that, I guess this thing in between where the dentist just takes a scan and then.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:14:30]

Payman Langroudi: But what I’m saying is, look, there are different positionings. Look, just in whitening, you’ve got you’ve got us. You’ve [01:14:35] got the boutique Positionings.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. You’ve got.

Payman Langroudi: To be valuable.

[TRANSITION]: Right? And I think.

Sonia Rajput: It depends [01:14:40] on the area that you’re in. If I’m being honest, I think it depends which location you’re in to decide what kind of practice [01:14:45] you’re going to be running.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but for instance, I know a couple of guys, they’ve opened a practice in Sheffield [01:14:50] and it’s very, very, very, very high end.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And and so, you know, [01:14:55] like on paper you might say, hey, if you’re in central London, go high end.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But in Sheffield [01:15:00] there’s no competition for high end.

[TRANSITION]: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: You know, so sometimes you have to think that way.

Sonia Rajput: Think outside the [01:15:05] box a little bit as well. Yeah. No. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: How have you found being away from your family?

Sonia Rajput: Um, it was definitely [01:15:10] a struggle for the first three months. I think three months it takes to settle in anywhere. A new environment, new situations, [01:15:15] new job, new family as well. So, um, yeah, that was [01:15:20] hard for sure.

Payman Langroudi: But then, you know, just being dragged away from your friends and family.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I know, it’s horrible.

Payman Langroudi: Making. [01:15:25]

[TRANSITION]: New friends.

Sonia Rajput: All the time and yeah, every, every other week I’m in Birmingham.

[TRANSITION]: It’s okay. Where are you?

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, yeah, I’m [01:15:30] a home home girl.

Payman Langroudi: I think you know what happens if you do have kids? Yeah. Then that’s when the new social [01:15:35] circle will happen.

[TRANSITION]: In a lot.

Sonia Rajput: Of. A lot of my friends are around London, so no one’s [01:15:40] too far away, which is good. Um, my sister’s at uni, like in London, so I still have [01:15:45] a network around, which is there. Um, I don’t feel too isolated. And. Yeah, my husband’s great. He’s been, [01:15:50] like, my number one supporter, so he’s really good.

Payman Langroudi: Is he one of those busy, busy finance guys? [01:15:55]

[TRANSITION]: Is he like.

Sonia Rajput: No. Absolutely not.

[TRANSITION]: No he’s not.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. No it’s good. He’s got a good balance.

[TRANSITION]: Oh well done.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah it helps me. [01:16:00] It helps me balance everything which is good.

Payman Langroudi: So this kind of millennial thing about sort of living your [01:16:05] best life.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s kind of a Gen Z thing too, right?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Living your best life rather than struggling. [01:16:10]

Sonia Rajput: I think that’s what it is like. I probably would have said, um, I’d rather [01:16:15] focus on having more time. I, I work [01:16:20] to live. I don’t live to work. So I will make sure I work hard and then I will have really [01:16:25] good time. Me and my husband focus on having that time and energy to do what we want to do. Travel. Do what we want to [01:16:30] do. Is it selfish? Maybe, but we’re just living the best for each moment that we have.

Payman Langroudi: What else is?

[TRANSITION]: What [01:16:35] else are you.

Payman Langroudi: Supposed to do than think about.

[TRANSITION]: Yourself? It’s true.

Payman Langroudi: But you know one thing I’d say to you? [01:16:40] The bit between getting married and having kids, which where you’re at.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:16:45]

Payman Langroudi: Such a valuable.

[TRANSITION]: Piece. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Such a wonderful time.

Sonia Rajput: So I think why stress with other things right [01:16:50] now? This is a time to be enjoying my life. So yes, I could be doing the next thing and buying a practice, [01:16:55] doing this, doing that. But I’m really happy, really content and focussed on being happy and content. And then [01:17:00] when I enter the next phase of my life, then I’ll start looking at the next struggles to.

[TRANSITION]: To [01:17:05] face.

Payman Langroudi: What I’m saying is like like make it longer.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, true.

Payman Langroudi: The longer the better. Yeah. Because it’s such [01:17:10] a carefree time.

[TRANSITION]: True.

Payman Langroudi: Such a great travel, you know, do things. Yeah. Because once the kids come, it’s [01:17:15] just, like, so hard. Especially for you. The mother.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The first 8 or 9 years, you’re gone. [01:17:20] Yeah. And does that worry you? The thought. Does that worry.

[TRANSITION]: You? You [01:17:25] know, I think.

Payman Langroudi: There is no you in, kid.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. It does.

Sonia Rajput: I think I do [01:17:30] struggle. I think one of my motivation, one of the reasons, one of the things that motivates me is I think [01:17:35] I want to show that females can be independent, strong, hardworking and still have it [01:17:40] all. So I think I will struggle when it comes to having kids to be like, crap. No, I’m I’m so. [01:17:45]

[TRANSITION]: Can’t have it all.

Sonia Rajput: No, but it’s. So why is that? Why is that the case? That’s so sad.

[TRANSITION]: It’s so.

Sonia Rajput: Sad. [01:17:50]

Payman Langroudi: No one can have it all.

Sonia Rajput: It’s very sad. So that does make me upset for sure. So maybe I’m just [01:17:55] trying to.

Payman Langroudi: It depends what all is.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What all is, but you’ll see what I mean. They, [01:18:00] they they just take over.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: And then you probably never hear from me ever again.

[TRANSITION]: No [01:18:05] no.

Payman Langroudi: No, not necessarily that. Not necessarily that. But something’s got to give you know.

Sonia Rajput: No [01:18:10] it will for sure.

Payman Langroudi: And so what is it the thing that gives end up being holidays or [01:18:15] the types of holidays? Sometimes. Sometimes, by the way, health warning, sometimes the relationship.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, [01:18:20] true. Yeah, true.

Payman Langroudi: Because work can’t and the kids can’t and you know so [01:18:25] but it’s a funny thing because in this sort of millennial I [01:18:30] want what’s best for me. And I want to sit on beanbags on Fridays and read, [01:18:35] read books. You know, the notion of children where it’s a complete sacrifice thing. [01:18:40]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It doesn’t sort of fit in very nicely in that.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I do, I do.

Sonia Rajput: Think, where is that puzzle? [01:18:45] Where is that piece going to fit in my puzzle? I do think that all the time. So it’s that’s why [01:18:50] that hasn’t.

[TRANSITION]: Ended up.

Payman Langroudi: Kicking in. You know, in a way. You know, it’s it’s much nicer giving [01:18:55] a present than getting one.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah. Always.

Payman Langroudi: Kids are a bit like that.

[TRANSITION]: Okay, fine.

Payman Langroudi: Kids [01:19:00] are in the end I class it as that. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. They will.

Sonia Rajput: Be amazing.

Payman Langroudi: You’re constantly giving presents to [01:19:05] your kids. I don’t mean presents. Yeah, but I mean you’re constantly giving.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah, constantly giving.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:19:10] giving is a nice feeling in the end.

[TRANSITION]: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: But. But I think it’s a funny thing [01:19:15] because, like, I feel like innocence is, you know, like, you know, when you were six years old, you realised [01:19:20] you’re never going to be Kylie Minogue or whatever. You know, I realise I’m never going to be a [01:19:25] footballer. And then when you’re 16, you realise I’m never going to be a spaceman.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And then when [01:19:30] you’re 26, you realise you’re never going to be Elon Musk. And then when you’re 36, [01:19:35] you realise. And then what ends up happening is you lose more and more and more innocence.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:19:40]

Payman Langroudi: By the way, your parents get sick and die. You know, your your peers get sick and die. [01:19:45] Things like innocence starts going away. And then you just craving innocence again, and then you [01:19:50] have a kid. And then this innocent thing comes into the world. Yeah, yeah. And then that innocent [01:19:55] thing starts losing its innocence.

[TRANSITION]: Cycle starts again. Cycle starts again.

Payman Langroudi: And what I used to struggle with the [01:20:00] most was the pain. Having to go through the pain of growing up.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:20:05]

Payman Langroudi: Again.

[TRANSITION]: All over again.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And people will focus on the pleasure of growing up. Yeah. The first time he [01:20:10] scores a goal, the first time he tries ice cream. Amazing things right? But the pain of the [01:20:15] first time gets bullied. The first time doesn’t get invited to a party. First [01:20:20] time, everything. You know.

[TRANSITION]: All you say.

Sonia Rajput: Like.

[TRANSITION]: That. True.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And having to go through all of those and you [01:20:25] do with your kid, you go through it even worse.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, I struggled with that notion. [01:20:30]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know, but good luck.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I know you’re.

Sonia Rajput: Really making it sound.

[TRANSITION]: Fun. No. I’m joking. [01:20:35]

Sonia Rajput: It is a whole new era.

Payman Langroudi: You’ll enjoy. You’ll enjoy. But all I’m saying now is delay.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:20:40] No, thanks. Good advice.

Payman Langroudi: Your freezer, eggs, whatever it takes.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Who knows?

Sonia Rajput: Who knows?

[TRANSITION]: We’ll see. We’ve had [01:20:45] a couple.

Payman Langroudi: Of podcasts on.

[TRANSITION]: There. I know, I know.

Sonia Rajput: It’s crazy though, because everybody wants to, like, [01:20:50] be successful for a long period of time before they enter that phase of their life. It is tricky. It’s hard being a woman [01:20:55] for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And look, it’s interesting on one side, you’re super ambitious.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:21:00]

Payman Langroudi: On the other side you’re saying, oh, my Fridays off it is.

Sonia Rajput: That is.

[TRANSITION]: Me.

Sonia Rajput: That’s literally me in [01:21:05] a nutshell for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Whereas in my day that those two things just wouldn’t fit together. I quite like the fact [01:21:10] that you can be that person now.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. And I.

Sonia Rajput: Like you, do have that flexibility in dentistry, which is really lucky. [01:21:15]

Payman Langroudi: Definitely.

Sonia Rajput: For sure, which I love.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to our final questions. Fantasy [01:21:20] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive. Who would you have?

Sonia Rajput: Um, [01:21:25] I’m a huge Ariana Grande fan. I would love to see her. Like you [01:21:30] will hear me singing her.

[TRANSITION]: Songs, you.

Sonia Rajput: Know, like, literally since maybe I was 18. No, I do love her. So it’d be [01:21:35] cool to see her. She’s really successful, um, and just insanely talented, to be honest with you. So I’d just [01:21:40] love to meet her. Um, I have huge respect for Rhona Eskander. I think she’s, like, actually [01:21:45] an icon. To be honest with you. It would be great to have.

[TRANSITION]: A dinner party.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, sure.

[TRANSITION]: Why not? Never [01:21:50] met her before.

Payman Langroudi: I can arrange it for you.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Never met her before.

Sonia Rajput: I think she’s done a lot for the profession, especially for [01:21:55] females in dentistry. So, yeah, huge respect for her. So it’d be cool to.

[TRANSITION]: Amazing. Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: Cool to chat to her, I guess. And, [01:22:00] um, last one is probably. I just really like when nice people are successful. [01:22:05] So I feel like Joe Wicks is, like the nation’s sweetheart, and I think he’d be a really cool person to me. [01:22:10] Learn more about did you see his little clip on Dragons Den where he, like, um, he was like a [01:22:15] guest on Dragons Den. Did you see.

[TRANSITION]: That? No.

Sonia Rajput: He seems like the nicest person, but still so successful. So I love [01:22:20] when people like that have done really well. So I just love to. Just like. Yeah. Speak to him and see kind of his situation. [01:22:25]

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting the question, do you have to be a nasty boss or not? Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I know everything. [01:22:30]

Sonia Rajput: I think everyone should be nice. Good things come to nice people.

Payman Langroudi: It just suits some people to be nastier, you know? And [01:22:35] when you have a business, sometimes you need a strong, strong arm, you know, like. But it’s not me. For me, it’s my [01:22:40] partner, my business partner.

[TRANSITION]: Good cop, bad cop. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, he’s not that he’s [01:22:45] particularly nasty, but for instance, he’s. If someone walks in two minutes late. [01:22:50]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Really gets to.

[TRANSITION]: Him. It really.

Payman Langroudi: Really gets.

[TRANSITION]: To him. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And he’s like, well, why can’t you set [01:22:55] your watch, you know, your alarm two minutes earlier.

[TRANSITION]: If.

Payman Langroudi: That’s, you know, whereas with me I’m like, whatever, [01:23:00] I’m scared.

[TRANSITION]: I’m scared of him because I’m the late one.

Payman Langroudi: Checking [01:23:05] you’re a bit ADHD.

Sonia Rajput: I don’t know, I don’t really like labels. I don’t know, maybe. [01:23:10]

Payman Langroudi: Like lose focus?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I.

Sonia Rajput: Struggle with focus for.

[TRANSITION]: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: Unless unless it’s something that really interests [01:23:15] you and then you’re.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Then.

Sonia Rajput: Yeah, then I forget. But if I have something to do, a task to do, and I know I have the [01:23:20] whole day to do it, I will probably start it at 9 p.m.. Like, that’s just the kind of person I am. It’s just so annoying. [01:23:25]

Payman Langroudi: It’s kind of spectrum stuff. It’s kind of an ADHD thing.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, a 5 a.m. person.

Sonia Rajput: I don’t think I could [01:23:30] ever do that.

[TRANSITION]: You know, when people.

Sonia Rajput: Get it done at 5 a.m., like, I just can’t.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. No, no, but I can’t. [01:23:35] I can’t stand, like, when homework, homework.

[TRANSITION]: Homework, homework.

Payman Langroudi: Some kids would come home, do their homework [01:23:40] straight away.

[TRANSITION]: No I can’t.

Payman Langroudi: I’d be like, you know, 1 a.m. or 5 a.m. the next day. [01:23:45]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, literally.

Payman Langroudi: Constantly putting things off. And it’s such a drag, man, because I’ve got stuff [01:23:50] I need to do now, and some of them are easy things, but somehow they just don’t want to do [01:23:55] it.

[TRANSITION]: I just don’t it’s hard.

Sonia Rajput: I don’t know why, but yeah, so that would be good if I could make myself not [01:24:00] like that, that would be pretty good.

Payman Langroudi: I like that, that’s good, that’s good. Sort of self-awareness, you know Yeah.

Sonia Rajput: I’m [01:24:05] aware that I’m very bad in those things.

Payman Langroudi: So are you spiritual?

Sonia Rajput: Um. I [01:24:10] haven’t reached that stage just yet. No. I’m not.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. It’s been such a massive pleasure. [01:24:15]

[TRANSITION]: Thank you. No, it’s really nice. Thanks for asking me to come. Thank you so.

Payman Langroudi: Much for coming all.

[TRANSITION]: The way.

Sonia Rajput: Thank you.

[VOICE]: This [01:24:20] is Dental Leaders, the podcast [01:24:25] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:24:30] hosts, Payman Langroudi and Prav [01:24:35] Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must [01:24:40] have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking [01:24:45] through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you [01:24:50] got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And [01:24:55] if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank [01:25:00] you so so, so much for listening. Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.