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[VOICE]: This [00:00:35] is Dental Leaders. [00:00:40] The podcast where you get to go one on one with [00:00:45] emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:50] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:00:55] gives me great pleasure to welcome Masa Bali Onto the [00:01:00] podcast. I get two different types of guests on this pod. The type [00:01:05] that, uh, you know, comes to me and says, I want to be on. And then the type [00:01:10] that, you know, I go to them and say, hey, you got to be on. And Massa was one of the ones that was [00:01:15] very, very, very difficult to persuade to come on. And, uh, you said to me, my story is [00:01:20] not special. And I said to you, your story is the most common story in dentistry, [00:01:25] right? And apart from the fact that every single story is special, um, [00:01:30] but a story of qualifying first as an [00:01:35] engineer in dental materials, then studying abroad, then [00:01:40] working as an associate, and then finally starting or buying your own [00:01:45] practice, juggling all that with kids. Um, those are stories [00:01:50] that need to be told, um, so that most of us go through these sort of [00:01:55] juggles. I remember we started the company, I got married and [00:02:00] we moved house in the same year. And you know, it’s a struggle. It can be a struggle. So [00:02:05] lovely to have you.

Mahsa Balaie: Thank you so much. Thank you. It can be a struggle. I feel like sometimes [00:02:10] you’re so deep in it. Yeah. You’re like, just got to make it to the end.

Payman Langroudi: You’re running? [00:02:15]

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, I’ll see the finish line at some point.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, [00:02:20] I actually ran my first half marathon two weeks ago. Oh, okay. Randomly didn’t train for it. My [00:02:25] PT couldn’t do it. And just having this part of the conversation, it’s [00:02:30] quite symbolic, actually, because, um, I ran, like, half my mouth is 13.1 [00:02:35] miles, right? And I never look at the time on my watch. I never look at the distance because [00:02:40] it bores me like, oh my God, I’ve got another five kilometres left. So, um, [00:02:45] all I knew from the route was that start and finish were pretty much [00:02:50] parallel. I didn’t realise they weren’t the same point. So my husband calls me, um, [00:02:55] because he brought the kids. It was in Brighton and he was like, hi, we’re here. And I was like, well, you’re late. He’s [00:03:00] like, I’m on my headphones. Where are you? I was like, well, I’m at the finish line. [00:03:05] He’s like, that’s an hour and a half. I was like, yeah, exactly. You’re [00:03:10] welcome. You know, I did great. Little did I know that actually, [00:03:15] you had to do this massive, um, three mile loop to [00:03:20] the finish line. Um, and the reason I talk about it is because I [00:03:25] was running and I was like, well, you come this far. I saw ten miles, and I was like, I can’t do it.

Mahsa Balaie: I [00:03:30] cannot do it. My legs started to seize up. Mentally, I hit a wall. Um, and I was [00:03:35] like, you know what I can say, I tried. If I bow out now, that’s okay. I tried, and [00:03:40] I was going to bow out and, um, I don’t know what just kept going. [00:03:45] I walked for a little bit, and then I was like, you know what? You’re walking. You might as well run. Um. [00:03:50] And I kept running, kept running, kept running. And then I just saw the finish line and I [00:03:55] sprinted for it. Payman! I was like, you’ve done it, you’ve done it. Like get to it. [00:04:00] Also, your husband thought you were hour and a half. You’re like half an hour late. Go. They’re waiting for you. And [00:04:05] it’s quite symbolic because when you said, you know, you bought your did your business, got married, bought a house [00:04:10] all in the same year, at some point you see that finish line and then you [00:04:15] start to like breathe and you’re like, okay, let’s just get it done really quickly. Let’s just get it over and done with. And I think, [00:04:20] um, not all of but some of my life has been that way. I’m just so [00:04:25] deep in it.

Payman Langroudi: On the fitness front. Yeah. How long [00:04:30] have you been doing that?

Mahsa Balaie: I am I don’t know if a lot of people can say this, [00:04:35] but I am about to hit my one year anniversary of of Just [00:04:40] Fitness. A whole new, yeah, whole new life. I don’t recognise me from [00:04:45] this time last year.

Payman Langroudi: Just one year.

Mahsa Balaie: One.

Payman Langroudi: Year.

Mahsa Balaie: One year. Um, I [00:04:50] think if anyone who does know me is listening to the They’re like, oh, here she goes again. It’s so [00:04:55] boring. Um, but it’s a really big achievement for me. Um, I lost like, 40 [00:05:00] kilos.

Payman Langroudi: 40.

Mahsa Balaie: Um. Um, and it’s [00:05:05] been life changing, and it’s one of those things where I have just [00:05:10] not looked at the watch, not looked at the distance. I’ve just kept going. And I’m like, at some point I’m going to get to where I need [00:05:15] to be. And I have um, and I [00:05:20] think actually this podcast is great for that because in the run up to it, it’s [00:05:25] given me so much time to reflect. I never do. I just get on with it. But [00:05:30] I practice, get on with it, have kids, get on with it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: But it’s really nice [00:05:35] to have been able to spend the last few weeks just reflecting. What am I going to talk about? Um, [00:05:40] what significance does it have? And um, for the first time actually [00:05:45] ever, I’ve sat down and be like, do you know what? Like you did it. Well done. You [00:05:50] know, pat on your back.

Payman Langroudi: Um, what was the trigger?

Mahsa Balaie: Oh, God. Um, [00:05:55] so I had my son, um, end of Covid, put on a load of weight [00:06:00] there who didn’t in Covid. It was barbecues and alcohol.

Payman Langroudi: Lovely weather, wasn’t it?

Mahsa Balaie: I remember [00:06:05] my husband, so he was working from home and I was triaging. So at the time, obviously [00:06:10] I was an associate, I was triaging, I was at work. I was like, hi, what are you up to this guy? He [00:06:15] had run an Ethernet cable from our living room all the way through our dining room, through our kitchen and our conservatory, [00:06:20] into the garden, set up the pool. We had [00:06:25] a blow up pool like a 12 foot pool. And he’s put the mouse. I hope none of his people [00:06:30] are listening to this. Well, he’s left that job now anyway. He’s put the mouse on the enter button to show he’s online, and he’s [00:06:35] like having a beer in the pool.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: I was like, but we were doing that tonight [00:06:40] with our neighbours who we were bubbling with anyway. So, um, I had my [00:06:45] son and then, um, I had my daughter. Um, [00:06:50] and she was about six. I’m going to say [00:06:55] about two weeks old. Um, and I just, I started having I thought it was [00:07:00] a panic attack. I then thought it was a heart attack. And I just remember thinking, [00:07:05] what’s happening to me? Like, is this it? My daughter’s a few weeks old. I’m breastfeeding. What [00:07:10] am I what are we going to do? So my head is hanging out the bathroom window and I’m like, I need air, [00:07:15] I can’t breathe. Anyway, then it passes and I’m like, what just happened? [00:07:20] Turns out I had a hot gallbladder, but they couldn’t [00:07:25] operate because it was so hot. So I don’t know how [00:07:30] it works, but it can be so much inflamed and infected. But if it goes over that, you have [00:07:35] to wait. So we waited. Um, and then when my daughter was seven months old, I [00:07:40] had to go in for surgery. And I go to the pre-op and they’re like, can you just [00:07:45] stand on the scales? We need to take your BMI. And I looked at the scales, I was like, I’m so sorry. [00:07:50] Um, I think there’s something wrong. I think they’re broken. She was like, okay, no problem. Jump off and jump back [00:07:55] on. It went up and I was like, what? What? When did I [00:08:00] weigh that much? So then I went into that surgery, came [00:08:05] out and something just clicked for me. I was like, I can’t live like this. Um, [00:08:10] I have two young children. I have a business, you know, um, my husband, [00:08:15] if he takes another wife, I’ll be livid. Right. I need to live.

Payman Langroudi: Had [00:08:20] you put the weight on because of the pregnancies.

Mahsa Balaie: I mean, I’ve always been a little bit bigger. Um, [00:08:25] I’ve. I can honestly say I’ve never been skinny. Um, thanks, dad, for that, [00:08:30] actually. Yeah. Anyway, Iranian genes. Um, and [00:08:35] so then just progressively, over time, I started to put on weight. Um, [00:08:40] and then you, like, get into a relationship and you put on weight there and then, um, Covid [00:08:45] and, you know, x, y, XYZ. Then I hit Max when I had my son. [00:08:50] Um, then I never really lost the weight. And then when I got pregnant with my [00:08:55] daughter, I was like, look at me. I’m not putting on any weight. Turns out, like, I was at my max. Like I couldn’t possibly put on any more weight. [00:09:00] Um, so just over those maybe five, six years, it sort of spiralled [00:09:05] out of control. Um, and then I think moving because we were in Portsmouth, [00:09:10] um, I had my associate job in Portsmouth. Um, and when we moved to East Sussex, there [00:09:15] was no just eat, there was no delivery. There was no UberEats. And suddenly [00:09:20] we were having to like meal prep and meal plan and that made a massive difference. Um. [00:09:25]

Payman Langroudi: So what do you do? What was like, did you make a plan to.

Mahsa Balaie: No, I we were at Kids Swim one [00:09:30] Saturday at our local gym, which we had been paying for for two and a half years and [00:09:35] never used apart from a Saturday afternoon swim. And, um, I was just looking at the board. [00:09:40] I was post op. I was actually like five days post-op from my gallbladder. Um, [00:09:45] and I started looking on the board and I saw this, um, business card [00:09:50] for a TT. Honestly, I just liked how it looked. I was like, I’m going to go to her because I like how [00:09:55] it looks. Um, and she was there and she was like, you’re right. I was like, is this yours? And [00:10:00] she goes, yeah. And I was like, look, I need to make a change. Can you help me? Turns out, you know, when like, I’m a [00:10:05] massive believer, I’m not terribly religious, spiritual. And I really believe [00:10:10] in, like, stars aligning. And I was just in the right place at the right time. I was meant to meet her, and [00:10:15] I was like, I need to make a change. Like, come on, you know, let’s try. And I was like, can we start tomorrow? [00:10:20] She was like, you’re five days post op. Can we get some clearance from your doctor? I was like, they’ve discharged me, but [00:10:25] I’m willing to give you two weeks. So two weeks to the day after my surgery. [00:10:30] So I had my surgery on the 14th of March. My first PT session was 29th of March. [00:10:35] And it just it just something clicked and I think [00:10:40] I could have, um, tried to start this journey [00:10:45] a year ago. Two years ago? I don’t know, um, but I don’t think [00:10:50] my body was ready. I don’t think my mind was ready. Um, because as soon as I started dropped [00:10:55] off.

Payman Langroudi: So what do you do? Did you go to the gym every day or.

Mahsa Balaie: Um. So [00:11:00] I think when you’re a parent, especially as a mum, you’re like, oh, are they going to survive? [00:11:05] You know, they’re going to survive without me. So it was really hard. I told myself 2 to 3 days a week [00:11:10] is my minimum, so I’d have two days a week, PT, um, and then one day a week I’d [00:11:15] go by myself. And then that just crept up because I realised that the practice took over [00:11:20] a lot of my, like, mental stability. Um, [00:11:25] and then I’d be at the gym, I’d put my headphones on, and the world was just here [00:11:30] and I could just focus on me. That was an hour for me. So [00:11:35] I became a bit addicted to it. Um, and I was like, I just need some me time, you know? It made me a better person. It made me [00:11:40] nicer to be around. Um, so, um, I started going sort of four days [00:11:45] a week, and then I’d like creep up to 5 or 6, then I’d join a run club. And then my husband was like, we need [00:11:50] to have a chat because I can’t do this every morning with the kids. So, um, [00:11:55] yeah, like I’ve toned it down. But at first I was there all the time because I saw [00:12:00] something that was giving me results, and I just wanted to go back and go back more. And I felt good, and and I [00:12:05] was, you know, um, so definitely six days a week was [00:12:10] not sustainable. Um, but, yeah, toning it down. [00:12:15]

Payman Langroudi: And you changed your diet in a big way.

Mahsa Balaie: Massively, massively. I’m Iranian. I was brought [00:12:20] up on rice and lamb and, you know, um, okay, fine. We swapped out, [00:12:25] um, full fat meat oil for olive oil, but still, [00:12:30] um, and the one thing I said to my PT was, I, I’m not making two meals a day, like, [00:12:35] I’m not making one meal for me, one meal for my family. Um, but then slowly but surely, [00:12:40] I saw, um, I saw a difference. So I was like, okay, maybe I won’t have as [00:12:45] much rice. Maybe I won’t have that bit of tadig, you know? Um, and then I started [00:12:50] making two meals. It just happened. Um.

Payman Langroudi: But were [00:12:55] you, like, strict as hell?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Really strict.

Payman Langroudi: So strict. That trait of [00:13:00] of making a decision and then going all in on it. Some people [00:13:05] have that right. And I don’t know whether it’s a strength or a weakness. Right. Because sometimes when you [00:13:10] know you’re that cat, you can let yourself go a little bit in whichever area [00:13:15] we’re talking about. And then because you know that once you click into the new [00:13:20] way, you’re sort of obsessively do that. Were you always like [00:13:25] this or.

Mahsa Balaie: Like, um, you know what I said at the beginning about how this has given me time to reflect? I [00:13:30] would never have said so before, but I look back on everything that I’ve done. I’m like, it’s 100% UMass. [00:13:35] You know? That’s exactly me. I start something, take a deep breath, jump in, [00:13:40] and then I’m like, at one point I’ll float, you know, all in or in. [00:13:45] Um, and it’s a very similar story with like, [00:13:50] engineering. Um, that was I didn’t, so I got into [00:13:55] dentistry. I then didn’t make the grade. So I was like, my dad was like, why don’t [00:14:00] you just defer every year, redo your A-levels, um, or A2 at the time and [00:14:05] reapply. And I was like, no, this was my plan. A-levels, university. He was [00:14:10] like, okay, but do.

Payman Langroudi: You regret that decision? Because, you know, that’s very good advice that he gave [00:14:15] you. But it’s fantastic when you’re in it, you kind of feel like you’re going to be behind your [00:14:20] class or something. It’s almost a stigma.

Mahsa Balaie: I think at 18 years old, you’re sort of like, [00:14:25] I don’t want to be the 19 year old. Yeah, right.

Payman Langroudi: But now, on reflection, that one year would have made no [00:14:30] difference at all, right?

Mahsa Balaie: No, it wouldn’t make any difference at all. I feel like it would have changed my trajectory. [00:14:35] The trajectory of my life. Massively. Um, and there’s pros and cons to that. [00:14:40] So what I said at the beginning about sort of being spiritual and, and [00:14:45] believing in the stars aligning, I would never have met my husband. I if I hadn’t [00:14:50] met my husband, I wouldn’t have been.

Payman Langroudi: My life would have been completely different.

Mahsa Balaie: I wouldn’t have gone to Spain. And genuinely, [00:14:55] you can meet me at any point in my life. And I will tell you that Spain was the best time of my life. [00:15:00] It doesn’t matter, you know, I’ve had kids, I love them, they’re the best thing that happened. But [00:15:05] Spain was the best time of my life. And it’s not because I partied all the time. Or. And if, you [00:15:10] know, if you meet anybody that I studied with or around, I was heading [00:15:15] back. I had a full time job while I was studying. Really? Yeah. Doing what? Selling shoes, teaching English. [00:15:20] Um.

Payman Langroudi: Did you have to learn Spanish at the same time? [00:15:25]

Mahsa Balaie: So, um, I don’t know if you want to do this chronologically, but I’ll dip in and dip out. [00:15:30] So when I finished, um, engineering, um, I was going [00:15:35] to study dentistry because that was always the plan, always, always the plan. And you could have asked me when I was six years old. [00:15:40] In fact, that’s when I first decided, um, so anyway, I was [00:15:45] like, you know what? Um, I’m going to defer a year. Then it didn’t matter [00:15:50] to me, did it? I could have deferred a year when I was 18, chose not to, but I was like, do you know what I’ve studied? [00:15:55] Um, engineering. You can take a year out and then I’m going to go to dentistry. Um, and my parents [00:16:00] have a house in Spain. Um, and I was, um, it [00:16:05] wasn’t a good time for me. I was in a really bad mental state, [00:16:10] and I went to my doctor and my GP, and he was like, you need to make [00:16:15] a change. You either move out of your family home or [00:16:20] I put you on these antidepressants. And I was like, it’s a no to the pills. I’ve always been that way. [00:16:25] I’m not taking pills. No judgement to anyone who does. It was not [00:16:30] for me. Um, so I went home and I was like, I’ve booked a ticket to Spain.

Mahsa Balaie: My [00:16:35] mom was like, cool, when are you coming back? I was like, I’m not. And my dad was like, what? I [00:16:40] was like, just give me the keys to the house. I need to go. I don’t know when I’m coming back. I haven’t got a return [00:16:45] flight. Um, anyway, so I went out to Spain, um, [00:16:50] like a week later, got there, and suddenly I [00:16:55] was fine. I was mentally fine. Like, I woke up in the morning. I was like, cool, what are we doing today? So, [00:17:00] um, I wrote up a CV and I went to a few dental practices. [00:17:05] Um, and I was like, do you know what? I’m not going back. I feel so good. I’m not going back. Um, and [00:17:10] I stumbled across this practice. Um, walked in. I was like, can I assist [00:17:15] for you? Um, and she’s one of my closest friends to this day. I [00:17:20] consider her one of my biggest inspirations. She’s a mentor to me. She’s [00:17:25] incredible. Um, and she was like, I’ll take you on. But [00:17:30] there’s one condition. I was like, what is it? She’s like, not a word of English. This is Alicante. Like [00:17:35] we have a lot of English clients. Um, it’s not quite Benidorm. It’s a little town in [00:17:40] Alicante. And I think now I know, and I sort of came to learn. [00:17:45]

Mahsa Balaie: A lot of her patients were English, but she was like, not a word of English. You will learn Spanish. [00:17:50] It’s like, okay, um, and we come back to if I’m [00:17:55] in, I’m all in. I changed my phone to Spanish. I put my TV in Spanish, my laptop, everything [00:18:00] was in Spanish. I would, um, listen to Spanish music. I’d walk from my house [00:18:05] to the practice, and I’d read everything that I could see in Spanish. Then [00:18:10] I’d get to work, and I made so many mistakes. But there was so patient with me. Um, and in four months [00:18:15] I learned it, and my dad came to visit me. He didn’t speak to me for six weeks after I left. And then he [00:18:20] was like, well, I’m coming to see you super Middle Eastern. Well, I’m coming to see you. I was like, cool. And [00:18:25] then he saw that I could really communicate and he was like, sat me down and he was like, are [00:18:30] you sure you want to come back to England for dentistry? I was like, yeah, you know, that’s that’s the [00:18:35] plan. He was like, but isn’t it a waste? Um. Sorry. [00:18:40] That [00:18:45] was quite pivotal. Um, because my dad, who was like, you’re not leaving the country. [00:18:50] You’re not doing it. Suddenly he was like, let me help you.

Mahsa Balaie: And [00:18:55] it was a really pivotal moment, because if it wasn’t for him, I probably would have, you know, I would have applied [00:19:00] back for dentistry. I probably would have not got in again or. Um, so I [00:19:05] just started applying to dental schools out there. I was like, dad, it’s a lot of money. He was like, I’ll pay for it. This is your dream. [00:19:10] So then I applied, um, didn’t know what I was [00:19:15] doing. They they have their own sort of Ucas system, which I had no idea about. I just wrote a load of letters to, like, [00:19:20] Granada universities. I was like, well, they’re not writing back. Um, and [00:19:25] then I did all my validation of my, um, engineering degree, GCSE, [00:19:30] A-levels etc. and applied to the University of Valencia and at the [00:19:35] time they had a part time course which lasted a bit longer, but [00:19:40] it meant I could commute, stay there for a few days, do it, come back and keep [00:19:45] my job. Because I loved my job. I loved nursing there. Okay, yeah, absolutely loved [00:19:50] it. And I was learning so much. Um, but then they closed that. I went to the interview [00:19:55] and they were like, yeah, we’d love to have you on the course full time. Um, [00:20:00] and that’s what I did. Just went with it all in.

Payman Langroudi: So before we go into the [00:20:05] course, what was it about home that meant [00:20:10] that you had to run away?

Mahsa Balaie: Um, I suppose it was running away, wasn’t it? Um, [00:20:15] I’d done a degree that wasn’t necessarily fulfilling for me. Yeah, [00:20:20] um, I didn’t like it. I barely scraped through. Um, I [00:20:25] had I didn’t have this sort of fantastic, [00:20:30] constant group of friends. Um, because my [00:20:35] parents growing up were quite strict. So, um, you know, I was like, can I go out clubbing or whatever? They’re like, no, [00:20:40] are you stupid? You’re Iranian. You can’t do that. And so then, [00:20:45] um, no, but it was. I worked at House of Fraser [00:20:50] in the Home Department after I graduated because I was like, I don’t want a job in dental materials. [00:20:55] I don’t want to do dental materials. So let me get a summer job. Went to House of Fraser, [00:21:00] and I think everyone has that really horrible boss, one [00:21:05] really horrible boss that tips you over the edge. Um, and I wasn’t like [00:21:10] in, in the, like, fashion department or even in the cafe. I was [00:21:15] in the home department. It was boring as hell. And one day she was like, oh, Martha, [00:21:20] um, I need you to go and, like, stock the fridge or something. [00:21:25] And it’s like this massive human size. It’s about the size of this room. And I was [00:21:30] like, what the hell am I doing with my life? This is not what I want. Um, [00:21:35] and that’s, I think, what tipped me over the edge. I was like, there’s got to be more to life than this. [00:21:40] There has got to be. And and, you know, I think about it now, I’m like, you knew that was short term, but my [00:21:45] short term even has to make me happy. My every day to day. I’m [00:21:50] a massive believer in you’re not um, you’re not going to be 100% [00:21:55] happy all the time. But even if you’re, like lower than 60% happy for me, [00:22:00] that’s not okay. And I yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And the materials [00:22:05] degree itself, was it, as you would imagine it. I mean, how [00:22:10] what was it?

Mahsa Balaie: I don’t know what I imagined about it all. I knew that through clearing they were telling me, if [00:22:15] you get a certain percentage by year two, we can transfer you directly [00:22:20] onto dentistry. I was like, done deal.

Payman Langroudi: And then has it been useful? [00:22:25]

Mahsa Balaie: It saved me some money when I was doing dentistry, because I’d done certain [00:22:30] modules that they were also going to do, so they validated it.

Payman Langroudi: No. But like you’re you’re sort of understanding [00:22:35] of dental materials that it’s not useful as a dentist.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, yes. [00:22:40]

Payman Langroudi: Maybe you could help me a little bit with my products. I mean, look, I.

Mahsa Balaie: Was so uninterested [00:22:45] in it.

Payman Langroudi: You weren’t all.

Mahsa Balaie: In on it? No. I then had to go back and relearn it [00:22:50] all when I wanted to understand something. And there’s a really, really big difference [00:22:55] between who I was as a student in engineering and who I was in dentistry, because [00:23:00] in engineering I was rubbish. You know, [00:23:05] I was living for the party life. Um, and [00:23:10] I would like, turn up not or I didn’t really know how to study. I didn’t [00:23:15] know how to sit this exam, um, and I, and I now know that that’s because I just wasn’t [00:23:20] passionate about it. I didn’t care for it. I didn’t love it. And then I got to dentistry [00:23:25] and. I can’t say I barely studied [00:23:30] because that’s not true. I spent every waking hour, um, you know, going through [00:23:35] lecture notes and taking notes and lecture, going home, rewriting them and rereading them. And then my, you [00:23:40] know, bedtime reading between jobs was, you know, um, reading [00:23:45] up and this, that and the other and, and if I ever got anything less than like out then it was out of [00:23:50] ten. If I got anything less than 9.5, I was like, why are you failing? Um, but [00:23:55] that studying came naturally to me because I loved [00:24:00] it so much. Like, I it wasn’t an effort for God to sit down and learn about blah, blah, blah. I [00:24:05] loved it, absolutely loved it. And I think if my kids ever came to me [00:24:10] and said, you know, what do I do? My dad, when I was younger, he was like, [00:24:15] I don’t care if you end up being a bin man, just do something you love. Um, [00:24:20] he always obviously advocated and encouraged that we study something so we have something to fall back [00:24:25] on. I don’t think that’s life anymore. I don’t think you necessarily need to go [00:24:30] to university. Um, but I think if my kids ever said to me, what do I do? I’d just do something [00:24:35] you love. Doesn’t matter what it is.

Payman Langroudi: It sounds great. It sounds great. But the the reality [00:24:40] sometimes, I don’t know, in my case, anyway. The friends of mine. The reality sometimes is [00:24:45] the kid says, I don’t know what I love. So then the kids looking to you again? Yeah. [00:24:50] And even though I wanted to be this touchy feely dad who says, hey, go write a [00:24:55] screenplay. In the end, you tend to fall back into, hey, do something professional. [00:25:00] You know, like it’s.

Mahsa Balaie: You’ve got more security that way, don’t you? You know that you’ll have a [00:25:05] job at the end. You know what that job will be? Um, and as a parent, that [00:25:10] sort of. Gives you a bit of peace. As [00:25:15] a parent, you’re like, okay, you know, they’ll be okay. Yeah. And I would love to be [00:25:20] that touchy feely person, but I spend every day I’m like, do you want to be a dentist? Like mommy to.

Payman Langroudi: My.

Mahsa Balaie: Son? He’s like, [00:25:25] yeah, sure. Why not? Um, and I’m really hoping that’s what he loves to do. But if [00:25:30] it isn’t, that’s okay. I’m okay with it. My parents never pushed us. We are all medical professionals. [00:25:35] My sister’s a GP. My brother’s a pharmacist. I’m a dentist. Um, [00:25:40] but I don’t think they ever planned.

Payman Langroudi: Your parents in medical.

Mahsa Balaie: No, no, my mum was, um. She’s retired [00:25:45] now. Um, she was like a nurse in a nursing home. And my dad is a [00:25:50] civil engineer. Retired civil engineer. So, um, you know, we are the first people, [00:25:55] I think. Yeah, the first people in our family, um, to be doctors [00:26:00] and medical professionals. And they didn’t plan it that way. They just said study something. Mhm. Um. [00:26:05]

Payman Langroudi: And you’re the middle, um middle child. [00:26:10] So then tell me about the course in, in Valencia, because there’s quite a lot of English, [00:26:15] um, you know, students, foreign students in in Valencia. Now, was [00:26:20] it the same then?

Mahsa Balaie: No, I was the only one.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Mahsa Balaie: So I, um.

Payman Langroudi: Which year was it?

Mahsa Balaie: So I [00:26:25] started 2011.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, okay.

Mahsa Balaie: The English course started in 2012.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Mahsa Balaie: So I [00:26:30] actually, um, my cohort was the Spanish lot. I just integrated, and because I could speak Spanish, they [00:26:35] were like, yeah, why not? And at the end of my first year, they were like, look, we’re introducing an English course. Do you [00:26:40] want to switch? I was like, why would I do that? I love, I loved learning it in Spanish. And I think it’s because [00:26:45] so, so in that, um, you know, first year is all anatomy and all the rest of it, and it’s all Latin [00:26:50] anyway. Yeah. And I just found that because I could speak Spanish, I could remember that a bit [00:26:55] better. Mhm. Um, but then I loved my Spanish. Um, well there’s a lot of Spanish [00:27:00] and Italians actually in the Spanish course. I loved my colleagues and, and I didn’t, I became [00:27:05] friends with the people in the English courses in the lower years. Um, but it was never [00:27:10] appealing to me to move over to the English course. It’s weird. Really weird, because actually, the people [00:27:15] in the English course and the English cohorts. They had to learn to speak Spanish for clinics anyway. Yeah, yeah. [00:27:20] So.

Payman Langroudi: So did you find the course? Did you take to it easily, [00:27:25] or did you find it hard?

Mahsa Balaie: No, I didn’t find it hard at all. And I was. [00:27:30]

Payman Langroudi: Working in the practice as well. Kind of gives you an insight.

Mahsa Balaie: This is what brings me back to why. That the [00:27:35] dentist who took me on to be a dental nurse is my mentor. Every time they would [00:27:40] introduce something that was new at university, I’d be like, I’ve seen Laura do that, you know. Oh, I [00:27:45] remember how she used to do that. This is how she used to put a matrix band on. This is how she used to mix alginate. Blah blah [00:27:50] blah. And so I honestly, I have so much to [00:27:55] owe to her because she was so concise in everything. And she was she’s a natural born teacher. [00:28:00] So she knew that my intention was dentistry. Her husband didn’t like it very much. So he was like, [00:28:05] oh, why don’t you just stay here earning peanuts? Um, but she knew that my intention was [00:28:10] dentistry. And so she made it her mission to make sure that I was going to go to university and be okay. [00:28:15] And I feel like part of the reason I was okay is because of that. She gave me all her notes. You know, she she’d [00:28:20] graduated from Venezuela, she’d come over to Spain, and she’d then had to validate her [00:28:25] degree. So she had to do an extra three years in, I think she did the University of Granada. She she had a note. [00:28:30] She gave all those to me. And so when it did come to that, I didn’t [00:28:35] find it difficult. Um, I found it stressful. I found, like it was a [00:28:40] lot of information, but I just felt like, um, my brain retained it better. [00:28:45] And there’s something to be said for the American system where they have to do a [00:28:50] pre-med.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: And then go on to do medicine or dentistry. Um, [00:28:55] and a yes, 100%. You have to be passionate about it. But secondly, I feel like my brain [00:29:00] was that little bit more developed, a little bit more mature. Yeah. Um, and [00:29:05] for me, it worked perfectly because.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:29:10] so did you consider staying?

Mahsa Balaie: Sorry.

Payman Langroudi: Do you consider say staying in Spain. Yeah. [00:29:15] Yeah. As a dentist.

Mahsa Balaie: I put off my GDC registration for so long. That’s why I stayed there for a year. [00:29:20] My mom was like, have you applied? I’m like, no. Oh, yeah. I sent off my forms. Um, but I haven’t [00:29:25] heard it. I hadn’t sent off my forms. They were in my bag. And then, um, Brexit happened. [00:29:30] So they all voted Brexit. And then my mum was like, this is getting serious now. We don’t know what’s going to happen. My mum’s the [00:29:35] sort of person who, if they say Brexit has been voted, she’s like come home [00:29:40] now. It took three years to enforce right.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, so [00:29:45] actually one thing that put me off coming to England was, um, [00:29:50] I sat the, I set, I sat the exam, I went to the interview [00:29:55] for, um, to get a place on a PhD at the time. And [00:30:00] I ranked something really silly, like 400 in the [00:30:05] country. And for me, that was a massive achievement. Um, because I was like, I’ve come from Spain, [00:30:10] why have I not got a place. Um, so I wrote to them. Didn’t hear anything. [00:30:15] I was like, look, I’ve ranked really well. And it turns out that they obviously give places to the UK [00:30:20] students first. And then if there’s any spaces left, they then take that in [00:30:25] rank order. I didn’t get a place. Um, so that really put me off. I was like, if you [00:30:30] don’t want me, I don’t want you. Um, so I [00:30:35] had a colleague, um, who had a practice from before over there. It works a bit [00:30:40] differently. So, um, you can own a Dental lab and own a dental practice at the same time. So [00:30:45] this guy owned a dental lab, one of my very good friends, and he was like, do you want to come work [00:30:50] for me? Um, at his practice, I was like, yeah, sure. Why not? Great. By the beach? Why not? [00:30:55]

Payman Langroudi: Um, in Valencia?

Mahsa Balaie: No. Alicante. So, um, between Alicante, [00:31:00] Valencia, like Moreira sort of area. Um, so [00:31:05] I was working there and I loved it. I, um. Oh, sorry. Um, [00:31:10] And I was not earning a lot of money. I was clocking in sort of 8 [00:31:15] a.m., clocking out at 9 p.m. but I loved it. And my mom was like, [00:31:20] are you coming home anytime? Like are think about it. Um, but then I was forced to. [00:31:25] So then I had to hand in my GDC registration form.

Payman Langroudi: Because of Brexit.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. [00:31:30]

Payman Langroudi: I mean, in case it didn’t work anymore.

Mahsa Balaie: But, you know, I think so. I was 28 when I graduated. [00:31:35] Um, when I qualified from dentistry, I was 28 years old. And, um, I [00:31:40] always knew that I wanted to sort of get married and have children. And, you know, as a woman, [00:31:45] time starts to tick and you’re like, oh, my goodness, I haven’t even met anyone yet. Yeah. Um, [00:31:50] so I was like, right, I’m earning this much from [00:31:55] being the only dentist. And it wasn’t very much. It was enough to sort of pay my rent, pay for my car, [00:32:00] pay for like, nice food. Few few meals out, but not enough to save. [00:32:05] I was like, what are you going to do? You don’t even at that time it was important. You don’t even own a [00:32:10] property. You don’t own a car. What are you going to do? You can’t do that here. And that was a pushing factor as [00:32:15] well. Um, for me.

Payman Langroudi: And so your reflection on being a dentist [00:32:20] in Spain or being a dentist in the UK, what comes to [00:32:25] mind? Like, what are the main differences?

Mahsa Balaie: Regulations like regulatory [00:32:30] bodies. Um, there’s a lot more sort of rules and regulations that you have to follow [00:32:35] here, obviously. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Is it obvious?

Mahsa Balaie: Well, yeah. I mean, [00:32:40] over here, you’ve got the GDC, you’ve got the CQC, you’ve got NHS. If you’ve got an NHS contract.

Payman Langroudi: Then they have equivalents. [00:32:45]

Mahsa Balaie: No, they like GDC and that’s it. Indemnity. That’s it.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:32:50] what about the patients? They’re more respectful.

Mahsa Balaie: Er, yeah. Massively [00:32:55] more respectful. And you know.

Payman Langroudi: That fear of being sued isn’t there so much.

Mahsa Balaie: It’s [00:33:00] not. It really isn’t. I mean, if I was to go back and look on my go back and look at my notes, [00:33:05] it’s only because I’m a very comprehensive person that my notes are so detailed, but, [00:33:10] you know, sort of like the olden days GRC come [00:33:15] back again six weeks. I don’t know. Um, but, um, you’re [00:33:20] definitely not looking over your shoulder the whole time. Um, and if [00:33:25] they complain, you’re sort of like, okay, here’s your money back. I’ll [00:33:30] do it again for you. I won’t charge you. Um, but there’s definitely less [00:33:35] of a formal complaint culture.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and is there a state and a private [00:33:40] sector, or how does it work?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. But the state is literally just the local [00:33:45] hospital or just one hospital in the city that does extractions on kids. That’s it. You [00:33:50] can’t get anything else. Um, on the state.

Payman Langroudi: The rest is private.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. The whole thing is private, [00:33:55] and they don’t really pay into insurances like the USA, for example. Um, [00:34:00] but, um, they all know, you know, they, they save towards, um, orthodontic treatment [00:34:05] for their kids. They know. And even though it’s private, they don’t sort of just go to the dentist [00:34:10] when they’ve got a problem. You’ve got six monthly patients, you know, um, [00:34:15] when you recommend something, they go for it. Um.

Payman Langroudi: So would you say the trust [00:34:20] is higher there between patient and dentist?

Mahsa Balaie: Not necessarily. I think [00:34:25] that’s very dentist dependent, you know. Um, I think that has a lot to do with the rapport [00:34:30] that you have with your patients and how you make them feel. And, you know, I could be the best [00:34:35] dentist of the world, but if I’m not exuding trust, [00:34:40] then they’re not gonna trust me. It doesn’t matter where I am in the world.

Payman Langroudi: True. So [00:34:45] you came back? Yeah. What do you do?

Mahsa Balaie: My sister, um, lives in [00:34:50] Hampshire. My sister lives in Hampshire. And, um, she [00:34:55] at that time had three kids. Yeah, three kids at the [00:35:00] time. She’s got four now and all. I knew I didn’t have anything that sort of. I don’t [00:35:05] have a boyfriend, don’t have a husband. Nothing. I was like, I could go anywhere in the country, let me be [00:35:10] near my nieces and nephew. So, um, I went towards Hampshire and [00:35:15] then I found a job in Portsmouth. Um, and they offered to mentor [00:35:20] me, um, because I had to do the PLB. So it’s, um, [00:35:25] like vocational training by equivalence. So I had a portfolio and all [00:35:30] the rest of it to get my performer number.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, I.

Mahsa Balaie: See, um, and I loved [00:35:35] it there. And that’s where I stayed for like five years, actually, until I bought my practice. Um, and [00:35:40] it was just very plain sailing. I would sort of, um, I had an associate job, um, [00:35:45] there. And then I had another private associate job. Um, a little bit further out. I’d [00:35:50] go to work, I’d get up in the morning, go to the gym, um, go to work, come home, [00:35:55] have a nap, do it all again. You know, it was a very simple life. Um, [00:36:00] I miss it sometimes.

Payman Langroudi: Seaside again? Huh? Huh? Seaside again?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Yeah, [00:36:05] yeah. Didn’t realise it. I mean, very different. Very different. Seaside. [00:36:10] Um. But, um, it was nice. I mean, you know, I reflect [00:36:15] back on it. I’m, like, not the nicest part of the world. Portsmouth. But it [00:36:20] served me, um.

Payman Langroudi: Portsmouth can be fun. Um, but, you know, I’m interested in in [00:36:25] in how easily you jump between Croydon, Portsmouth, [00:36:30] Spain, and now Tunbridge Wells. Like, a lot of people would have [00:36:35] stress and anxiety about moving around so much.

Mahsa Balaie: With an 11 month old.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:36:40] Yeah. You know, it doesn’t bother you as much as the next man.

Mahsa Balaie: Dive in. You’ll [00:36:45] float at some point. Yeah. If you know how to swim, you dive. And at some point you’ll [00:36:50] come up for air. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And just the just the basic stuff [00:36:55] of being away from friends and family or, I don’t know, not knowing where to get your [00:37:00] hair cut. This is a change. Changing location is stressful, isn’t it?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, [00:37:05] those are probably the more the things that stress me more. So I know that, [00:37:10] you know, for me, an hour and a half, two hour commute to my parent’s house is not much. I don’t mind [00:37:15] doing it, and I would never expect them to do it. I’ll go back every weekend. It’s not a problem. Um, you [00:37:20] know, my sister’s an hour and a half away. That’s cool. We can do that. I mean, at the time, she was 20 minutes away. [00:37:25] Um, yeah. I don’t I don’t know what to say about [00:37:30] that. I, you know, I just sort of get on with it. Some people say to me, oh my goodness, you studied [00:37:35] in Spanish. And then and then you did the whole of dentistry. I’m like, yeah, that’s what that [00:37:40] those are the cards I was dealt with.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: What do I do with them?

Payman Langroudi: Tell [00:37:45] me about the clinical journey. Like what kind of dentist were you and then what kind of dentist [00:37:50] are you? What kind of dentist do you want to be?

Mahsa Balaie: Um.

Payman Langroudi: General dentist, [00:37:55] right? Yeah. For instance, we met at Mini Smile Makeover. Yeah. So you’re not just the [00:38:00] general dentist doing general dentistry. You’re looking to get better and. Yeah. Composite [00:38:05] bonding. So tell me a bit about clinical journey. Where are you at?

Mahsa Balaie: Um, so when [00:38:10] I first. Where am I at now? Um, yeah, I’m definitely focusing on more, um, [00:38:15] aesthetically driven treatments. Um, and [00:38:20] perfection. So I’m really trying to just, um. [00:38:25] That perfection is a journey, right? You’re never perfect. Um, but I’m [00:38:30] definitely striving for perfection. Um, but I [00:38:35] would say that I’ve always been a perfectionist. So even if my clinical skills were a [00:38:40] little bit lower, say, at the beginning start point of my journey, I was still perfect [00:38:45] at being that little bit less perfect, right? I don’t know if that makes sense. Um, and [00:38:50] the start of my journey, it was actually quite it was actually quite difficult because you [00:38:55] go from being a fully private dentist in Spain to having all these really nice composites. And you say [00:39:00] to a patient, you need this, this. And they’re like, yeah, sure, no problem. Um, to being [00:39:05] an NHS dentist. And that’s quite hard actually. That’s really [00:39:10] hard.

Payman Langroudi: Um, learning the regulations.

Mahsa Balaie: Learning the regulations. I mean, you know, [00:39:15] in Hampshire they run this like ten day course. Um, and it’s like introduction [00:39:20] to NHS one, two, three, ten. Um, but [00:39:25] you really do just learn on the job and you have to make mistakes. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:39:30] from, from the perspective of volume of work, like how many patients a day were you seeing in Spain and then how [00:39:35] many patients in Spain, in the NHS.

Mahsa Balaie: Maybe like 12 [00:39:40] a day in Spain, 30 a day. It was quite a high. It was quite a big [00:39:45] NHS contract. And actually, um, I didn’t have PhD training. Yeah, I went [00:39:50] straight into it. So whilst I was waiting for my performer number, I was nursing at that same [00:39:55] practice. Tests. Um, and just to sort of a get a bit of money [00:40:00] in um, but b learn the whole shebang and um. [00:40:05] Day one 15th of May, 2017. Bam! In you go. And [00:40:10] I’m like, okay, what do I do now?

Payman Langroudi: So suddenly working quickly.

Mahsa Balaie: Working really fast. And I had fantastic [00:40:15] nurses. Yeah. Um, there’s two nurses, um, who spring [00:40:20] to mind on my first day. And they were like, don’t worry, we’ll do your notes for you. You just review them, [00:40:25] um, you know? Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Go ahead. Um, this is how the system [00:40:30] works. And so they’d obviously worked in the practice for a long time, and they were [00:40:35] GS they were my guiding stars. Um, but, yeah, it [00:40:40] was high volume, fast. But then even then, I was [00:40:45] not, um, compromising my quality of care. And [00:40:50] you know.

Payman Langroudi: How.

Mahsa Balaie: I don’t know, I don’t [00:40:55] know.

Payman Langroudi: We’re using rubber dam.

Mahsa Balaie: Okay, maybe I did compromise. Okay, [00:41:00] yeah, but, like, the quality of my composites was [00:41:05] not terrible on the NHS.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I’m sure. I mean, it’s a whole skill [00:41:10] in itself, right? I mean, I don’t think I could pull it off. Yeah. I, you [00:41:15] know, it’s hard to do things quickly and.

Mahsa Balaie: Well, it really is.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And it’s like, what what aspect [00:41:20] of it do you give up? You know, obviously, you know, in private you can make the posterior [00:41:25] restoration look beautiful in NHS. You might say, well that’s not so important. Just functionally [00:41:30] I want it to be right for the sake of the argument. What I found the hardest about [00:41:35] I only did it in NHS, but what I found hardest about it was no time to talk. [00:41:40] Yeah. And when? When when all day [00:41:45] you’re drilling and filling, you come out of it sort of a bit. Oh I did, I used to come out of it [00:41:50] thinking I’m just this, like carpenter guy. Yeah. You know, whereas for [00:41:55] me, the biggest difference between private and NHS was the human interaction. [00:42:00] Right. And even though I was still a carpenter, but but I was having a few conversations.

Mahsa Balaie: In between.

Payman Langroudi: A few [00:42:05] conversations in between. And the other thing I hated was [00:42:10] the third party thing. You know, you’ve got you and your patient. There’s [00:42:15] a problem. Here’s the solution. Having this third party telling you what you can and can’t do. [00:42:20] Break my heart is to hate it. Yeah. So did you stay in a mixed practice all [00:42:25] that time until you bought your Tunbridge Wells? Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Really? Stayed in one practice. I had [00:42:30] another associate job, which I had to leave in Covid, and then I started another one. But [00:42:35] that whole my constant was that one mixed practice. And, um, from the [00:42:40] from the get go, I was mixed.

Payman Langroudi: So you were doing private items on these?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah, I [00:42:45] was. Um, and I was hitting my udas, but I was also doing private. It was it was good. [00:42:50] It was a nice gig. Yeah, it was a nice gig. You know, I bought my car. I bought my house.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:42:55] saved up for your practice.

Mahsa Balaie: Saved up? Um, I mean, my husband helped a little bit with that, and, you [00:43:00] know, if he’s listening. Thank you. Um, but, you know, I, um.

Payman Langroudi: Where did you meet your husband in this journey? [00:43:05]

Mahsa Balaie: I’ve just at this random party in London.

Payman Langroudi: No, no, but at what point?

Mahsa Balaie: Oh. 2018.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:43:10] that was early on in the NHS.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I actually told a white [00:43:15] lie because he was in Bristol, I was in Portsmouth, and he was like, where are you from? And [00:43:20] I’m like London. Not a lie. Technically not a lie. And then, [00:43:25] um, at one point he like, should we meet up? And I’m like, yeah, um, about that, he was like, what do you [00:43:30] mean you’re from Portsmouth? Um, but yeah. So we met in 2018, got [00:43:35] married 2019.

Payman Langroudi: That was quick.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. When I know, I know [00:43:40] all in all in at some point I’ll float.

Payman Langroudi: Were you in kind of a hurry? No [00:43:45] no.

Mahsa Balaie: No. When we met.

Payman Langroudi: Were you like. I mean tell [00:43:50] me this as a as a lady. Do you. Are you calculating? Oh, I want to [00:43:55] have a kid by this age.

Mahsa Balaie: I bought my car.

Payman Langroudi: My second kid by that age. Work [00:44:00] backwards. I got to meet someone now. No. There is an element of that. A [00:44:05] little bit.

Mahsa Balaie: A little bit. When I bought my car, it was my present to myself for my 30th birthday. [00:44:10] I was like, I’m going to go brand new. After that, we’ll buy second hand if we need to. And, [00:44:15] um, I went for like a little mini SUV, not SUV [00:44:20] like it was a four, 4×4.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: And everyone was like, why would you do that? You’re single. Like, [00:44:25] barely dating. Why would you do that? Like, because I want kids in the next five years. I don’t want to have to change my car. [00:44:30] Um, so I might as well buy something I like. And everyone was like, that is so weird to me. It [00:44:35] made sense. Um, so do I. Am I working backwards? No. But am [00:44:40] I sort of planning for the future? Yeah, that’s sort of part of my character.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’s kind of the same thing, right? [00:44:45]

Mahsa Balaie: Not really. No, because I wasn’t like, I want to have kids by, I think when I met my when I met my [00:44:50] husband.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not a you don’t have to worry about it. I mean, we all, we all make calculations in [00:44:55] our lives as, as as as a as a lady. You have to. I mean, unless you’d frozen [00:45:00] some eggs or something.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. And, you know, I think if there was, if I was more informed about [00:45:05] it, that might have been a route I went down. I’ve sort of heard Rhona talk about it. Um, and I [00:45:10] massively respect her for that because she’s taken that step. And. Yeah, that’s planning in itself, isn’t it? [00:45:15] Um. I knew that, I knew I wanted [00:45:20] to get married and I knew I wanted children. That’s what I knew, and I knew that that’s something I wanted to work [00:45:25] towards. Now, I wasn’t just going to marry any Tom, Dick or Harry and just randomly.

Payman Langroudi: Have [00:45:30] kids.

Mahsa Balaie: But I knew it was part of my plan. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So the [00:45:35] new practice, the one you’re in now, I know [00:45:40] Tunbridge Wells a little. I wouldn’t think of it as particularly [00:45:45] cosmetically orientated town. Um, certainly there’s money there, you [00:45:50] know, people, people, people are quite well-to-do from my experience, from my time there. [00:45:55] I didn’t work there. Um, but older patients, is that right? [00:46:00]

Mahsa Balaie: Um, bit of everything. We’re starting to get more and more younger patients in, um. [00:46:05]

Payman Langroudi: By the way, old patients are the best.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The best.

Mahsa Balaie: You know, we, um, we’re converting [00:46:10] over to patient plan. And, um, the majority of our people are old people. And I was thinking [00:46:15] the other day, not old, like over 60s. Right. And the other day, I sat down and I was like, [00:46:20] in like 20 years time, there’s going to be a drop.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:46:25] God.

Mahsa Balaie: We need to work, like, harder to get the younger people to join. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:46:30] Um, but yeah, like older people, um.

Payman Langroudi: The best patients. [00:46:35] I used to work in Folkestone. Yeah. And, um, they were all older, and they were so respectful. [00:46:40] Um, so, so trustworthy. Like. And they do [00:46:45] what you what you recommended, they wouldn’t bother with too much with.

Mahsa Balaie: Also quite [00:46:50] sceptical, also quite sceptical. I feel like the older you are, the more experience you [00:46:55] have and you might have been burnt a few times. I feel like I have to build a much [00:47:00] more stable relationship with my older patients. Um, but [00:47:05] once I’ve gained that trust, that’s it.

Payman Langroudi: Then they’re in.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah, all [00:47:10] in. And I love that. You know, I’m the sort of dentist who, um, not just dentists. [00:47:15] I’m the sort of person who I remember. Birthdays, weddings. Um, [00:47:20] my my colleagues always say to me, oh, who’s [00:47:25] this person? Like? They’ll show me a bite ring. And I’m like, it’s that person. Or like a picture of their tooth. I’m like, oh, yeah, I remember that person. [00:47:30] I have that sort of ability. And I think the patients love that. Oh, you know how [00:47:35] I was. And I’m not the sort of person who will pop up. Note has daughter’s wedding and [00:47:40] I’ll remember it. I will genuinely.

Payman Langroudi: By the way, if you’re not that kind of person, it makes sense to put it. Yeah. Put [00:47:45] it on. Absolutely.

Mahsa Balaie: 100%, 100%. What I’m saying is I have not had to.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, actually. [00:47:50]

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s fantastic to put the pop up notes. It’s great to build that rapport.

Payman Langroudi: Really, really important. [00:47:55] I mean, like, I don’t know the the difference between a good dentist and [00:48:00] a great dentist is that, you know, that that rapport piece.

Mahsa Balaie: Absolutely. [00:48:05]

Payman Langroudi: But tell me about your process. What happens. I mean, have you got a scanner? Yeah. Do you scan [00:48:10] every patient?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. More or less. Yes. Yeah. [00:48:15] Intraoral photos. More than I need to get better at it. Where?

Payman Langroudi: In your [00:48:20] camera.

Mahsa Balaie: Or use.

Payman Langroudi: A normal.

Mahsa Balaie: Camera. Intraoral camera and a DSLR. Yeah. Um, [00:48:25] both.

Payman Langroudi: And do you run that sort of, um, people say the [00:48:30] sort of, uh, red, amber green sort of where you tell the patient [00:48:35] this is the stuff that needs doing. Now, this is the functional stuff, then this is the aesthetic stuff. [00:48:40] Sort of a staged treatment plan.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I will always. I’m [00:48:45] not. I’m not out there to, like, rob anyone. I’m not out there to be, [00:48:50] um. You know, this fake. You need this. You have to have this. [00:48:55] This is necessary. I always say to my patients, we’re going to split this appointment. We’re going to split it. [00:49:00] And what needs to be done under my recommendation. And if we had a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, this [00:49:05] is what we could do. And I always, always take them through their bitewings, [00:49:10] their pa, their photos. They. My objective is that this patient is fully [00:49:15] in control of their treatment plan. And so there’s never a question of but why are we doing this? Doesn’t [00:49:20] matter if there is. I will explain it again. Um, and I think my patients massively appreciate [00:49:25] that. They’re like, I don’t need to get it done, but I understand why she’s asking me to get it done. You know, um, [00:49:30] like replacement of amalgams. I’ll go through it. I’ll go through it. I’ll show the photos. Like, can you see that little hairline fracture [00:49:35] there? Can you see this void here? This is why I’d recommend it. Is it essential? You know, are you going to be in [00:49:40] trouble in the next six months if you don’t do it. No. That’s up to you.

Payman Langroudi: But this involves massive trust [00:49:45] anyway to say that.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, because I’ve taken photos if [00:49:50] they’ve chosen not to go ahead with that, um, when I see them in six months time, I’m like, how’s that [00:49:55] amalgam doing? I’ll take another photo. I’m like, look, this is what the progression is. And that’s when they’re like, [00:50:00] let’s just do it.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about the non-clinical side of owning a practice. [00:50:05] How good are you at that? I hate it.

Mahsa Balaie: Do I hate it?

Payman Langroudi: Does your husband help? [00:50:10]

Mahsa Balaie: No.

Payman Langroudi: Manager.

Mahsa Balaie: He. He, um, gives insight. We should [00:50:15] be doing this. But at the end of the day, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Manager.

Mahsa Balaie: Sorry. There is a practice manager. We have a [00:50:20] fantastic practice manager. Amy. Um. And she lightens the load massively for [00:50:25] me.

Payman Langroudi: The transition. The transition between associate and principal. And it’s [00:50:30] different. I mean, you were you were never an associate in this practice, were you?

Mahsa Balaie: Um, just for [00:50:35] the period where we were waiting for the sale to go through. Yes, I was. Okay. Yeah, for [00:50:40] two months.

Payman Langroudi: But you know, the stuff that we were talking about before, about the way you talk to [00:50:45] patients, the way you stage treatment, all of that, that’s all very associate territory. That’s [00:50:50] that’s the actual act of working in the business. But then the working on the business, [00:50:55] the rules and regulations, the, you know, compliance, the [00:51:00] numbers. The numbers. Yeah. Um, hiring and firing. Give [00:51:05] me, give me, first of all, a sense of what are we talking how many how many people [00:51:10] have you got? How many rooms?

Mahsa Balaie: Um, I’ve got two rooms. Um, and I have. [00:51:15]

Payman Langroudi: You and a hygienist. Or is there an associate?

Mahsa Balaie: I’ve got an associate. Uh-uh, um, an implant guy and [00:51:20] a hygienist.

Payman Langroudi: So they share that other room?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah. Um [00:51:25] hum. Um, and, um, what were [00:51:30] your questions? Yeah. So, um, I am like this with everyone. It [00:51:35] doesn’t matter who you are. You could be, you know, the top implant surgeon in the world. [00:51:40] You could be cleaning my practice. I’m exactly the same with everyone. And I think, um, [00:51:45] that can get quite hard when you’re running a practice because, you know, you [00:51:50] can’t always be everyone’s friend.

Payman Langroudi: That’s right.

Mahsa Balaie: I’m a massive [00:51:55] people pleaser. Massive people pleaser. I will put myself out to make other [00:52:00] people comfortable.

Payman Langroudi: Um, you’re saying it as a weakness.

Mahsa Balaie: I think it’s a massive weakness. [00:52:05] Absolutely. Just now, when Richard spent my name wrong, I was sat [00:52:10] here and I was like, don’t tell him. Don’t. It’s okay. He went to that much effort. You don’t have to tell him. And then [00:52:15] like, something here was like, just tell him. Yeah, he’ll be fine with it.

Payman Langroudi: You know, you don’t like confrontation.

Mahsa Balaie: I [00:52:20] hate it.

Payman Langroudi: But there are as a business owner, there’s going to be moments, right?

Mahsa Balaie: Those are the only times [00:52:25] where if I have to step in, I’ll get my husband to step in as well because he’s he’s [00:52:30] he’s a director, you know, he’s not clinical. He has nothing to do with it. But if I feel [00:52:35] like I need somebody who isn’t a friend. I’ll get him in, like, appraisals [00:52:40] and stuff. He’ll be in there. And the reason for that is because I also work with these people every single [00:52:45] day. It’s a small team. You want, you know, I, [00:52:50] I see them pretty much as the same amount, if not more, than I see my family. We [00:52:55] need to be on good terms. But there’s a limit, right? [00:53:00] Um. And I’m. I find it hard to find that limit sometimes. Um, but I’m [00:53:05] new to it. I always sort of try and make myself feel a little bit better. Like you’re new to it. [00:53:10] As long as you’re learning from it, we’re okay. Um. And [00:53:15] this is why sometimes I really miss being an associate. Because, you know, you can just clock [00:53:20] in, clock out, be nice to everyone. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: What’s been the biggest challenge? [00:53:25] I mean, what’s been the darkest day in in practice? Ownership. [00:53:30] I’m not talking about in your whole life.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, I fell pregnant, in [00:53:35] year one, so we bought the practice in July. This I went through and in October I found out [00:53:40] I was pregnant. And the first two years are like really [00:53:45] important. So, um, those [00:53:50] nine months, um, from, uh. Let’s, [00:53:55] let’s call it a year, uh, from finding out. And then [00:54:00] for a year. That was a really hard time for me. Really hard time for me. I was waking up [00:54:05] having panic attacks. What are we going to do? We can’t find an associate. We can’t find a locum. I’m going to pay through my nose [00:54:10] for a locum. Um. I want to breastfeed my child. I want to [00:54:15] be at home with my child because you don’t get maternity leave, right? Um. [00:54:20] I was lucky enough to get a few months with my son, but [00:54:25] even as an associate, um, you have to plan for it. So I went back at [00:54:30] five months, and, um. That was a really hard time for me because [00:54:35] the person we did find had no interest in the business. Um, didn’t [00:54:40] care, was getting their daily rate, and, um, really messed up [00:54:45] the business for us. Really messed up the business for us.

Payman Langroudi: Give me an example. What do they [00:54:50] do?

Mahsa Balaie: Just randomly not charging patients. Um. Private [00:54:55] patients. So the rule was, um, you know, we only have a certain number of udas, [00:55:00] and, um, anyone else is private. And so he would see that person [00:55:05] privately realise that they needed, like a number of extractions, refer them on the NHS [00:55:10] to have those extractions, although they could have been done in-house. Um, and then not charge them for the checkerboard [00:55:15] X-rays and I’m like I still have overheads to pay all this time trying [00:55:20] not to stress too much because I’m at home with my newborn baby and I’m having a gallbladder flare up [00:55:25] and I’m in and out of hospital and, you know, um, so that was a [00:55:30] really dark time for me. I went back to work.

Payman Langroudi: Fired him?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Found that really hard [00:55:35] as well. Found it really hard to fire him cause I was like, oh, but he’s coming to work and he’s earning money. And what [00:55:40] if it turns out he’s got, like, eight horses and lives on, like, ten acre land? He [00:55:45] doesn’t. He didn’t need my day rate.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, firing people was the hardest, hardest bit of [00:55:50] business ownership. I don’t know if you’ve ever had to fire someone who did nothing wrong. No. [00:55:55] That’s particularly painful. Yeah. I’ve noticed. Um, and, [00:56:00] you know, you might be thinking, why would you fire someone who’s done nothing wrong? But sometimes the job overtakes [00:56:05] the person. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I’ve had people who [00:56:10] laid their life down, you know, like, fully go for it. Part of the family, [00:56:15] if you like. Yeah. Who then? We’ve had to fight as it’s tough.

Mahsa Balaie: I [00:56:20] hope not to be in that situation because like, say, for [00:56:25] example, if something’s not going quite right, I will always try and find a way of like, How can I [00:56:30] train you? How can we make this better? How can we keep you? That’s. That’s the sort of sort of.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: And [00:56:35] I think at some.

Payman Langroudi: Point I was talking to the CEO of, of, you know, Pearl. Pearl.

Mahsa Balaie: I [00:56:40] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I was talking to the CEO about this very subject. And I said, have you ever had to do that? [00:56:45] And he said, every single person we fire is that person. He said, because by the time it gets [00:56:50] to him.

Mahsa Balaie: They’ve been through so many stages.

Payman Langroudi: Through so many stages. And he says, he says, I’ve [00:56:55] done it hundreds of times. Yeah. And it’s that question of, you know, how do you [00:57:00] handle that? I think that you have to obviously, as the owner, you have to think of the best [00:57:05] interests of the business first. Yeah. Hard to do that when [00:57:10] you’re thinking about people’s lives. Yeah. But one method of coping [00:57:15] with it is to understand you’re doing the person a favour, too. Yeah. Yeah. [00:57:20] I think not necessarily. Right. You know, if the person needs that money [00:57:25] to pay for their medical bills or something. Yeah. Something you know but but understand from [00:57:30] the work perspective. You’re doing that person a favour.

Mahsa Balaie: Absolutely. I mean, that [00:57:35] one year when my daughter was born and everything was going to pot. [00:57:40] Um, it was horrible. But on this side of it, I [00:57:45] remember that. And I’m like, we can’t go back there. We cannot go back there. Like, [00:57:50] physically can’t go back there. So a lot of the decisions I make now, they’re a little bit cut throat, [00:57:55] um, I get, you know, not in terms of employment or, you know, um, staff, [00:58:00] but the business decisions I make now, I’m like, it’s so that we don’t go back there. Um. [00:58:05] I hope not to be in that position where I have to.

Payman Langroudi: What [00:58:10] about hiring? Are you the one who does the hiring?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: All [00:58:15] of it. Yeah. Nurses? Yeah. Associates. Specialists. For [00:58:20] me, it’s kind of. It’s weird, isn’t it? You’ve never done it before. And now suddenly you’re hiring [00:58:25] people Any any insights? Like, were you good at that or [00:58:30] bad at that or. I have no idea.

Mahsa Balaie: You live and you learn is what I can say. You live [00:58:35] and you learn. Um, I’m definitely learning on the job. Um, and [00:58:40] I feel like I do that a lot. Anyway, like, in a lot of aspects of my life, [00:58:45] um, I’m definitely better at hiring than I am firing. [00:58:50] Um, because I know what I’m looking for. And I’ve definitely gotten better over time. Had I been a little bit [00:58:55] more selective when that person who was going to cover my maternity had come through the door, um, [00:59:00] I probably would have found a better person and I probably would have retained [00:59:05] them. Or, you know, they would have become a part of the family, let’s call it. Yeah. [00:59:10] Um, but I’m learning from it. I’m definitely more selective when I’m [00:59:15] looking for, um, an associate or a nurse now. Um, or even we were looking [00:59:20] for a receptionist the other day. Had about 70 different applications. [00:59:25] I knew what I wanted.

Payman Langroudi: What did you.

Mahsa Balaie: Want? I wanted [00:59:30] somebody. Look, um, I find it really hard to delegate. Really [00:59:35] hard, because I want to be the person who does everything. I want to be the TCO. I want to be the [00:59:40] receptionist. In fact, I sit on reception a lot of the time on my lunch break. Mhm. Um, and answer [00:59:45] the phones, answer emails, whatever. I want to be the nurse. I want to be. I want to be everything. And so [00:59:50] one of my biggest requirements of my staff is I need you to be an extension of me. I [00:59:55] need you to respond to that email in exactly the same way I would. I [01:00:00] want you to answer the phone in exactly the same way I would. And so you [01:00:05] get a vibe, don’t you? You do it a few times, then you get a vibe from a person. You’re like, that person is not going to do [01:00:10] is not going to fit with my criteria. And then we did find, [01:00:15] um, a lovely receptionist who, yeah, just fit the [01:00:20] bill.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a bit limiting. Yeah. That way of thinking. Yeah. You’re [01:00:25] never going to sort of grow properly. No. If you want everything [01:00:30] to be exactly right all the time.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right. You know, it’s obviously being a perfectionist. [01:00:35] There are benefits to it, but there are big disadvantages. And this is one of them.

Mahsa Balaie: I mean, [01:00:40] I’d like them to be exactly perfect all the time. They’re not.

Payman Langroudi: No, I think it’s [01:00:45] almost the opposite. Yeah. You have to. You have to. When? When you delegate a job. Let’s imagine I’m [01:00:50] I’m right now I’m running the social media for Dental Leaders podcast myself. [01:00:55] I mean, we’ve got social media professionals working on our other [01:01:00] accounts. I’m doing this for myself because I want to. Yeah. Um, the moment I hand that [01:01:05] over to someone. Yeah. Um, unless it depends. If it gets some major [01:01:10] expert, that’d be different. But generally, standards will change. They’ll drop.

Mahsa Balaie: Absolutely. [01:01:15]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. And you have to understand that that will happen. And you have to not mourn [01:01:20] that. Yeah. Standards will drop now. Look, the amount of [01:01:25] work we’ve put into the brand. Enlighten. Yeah. It’s huge. Yeah, [01:01:30] it’s 24 years we’ve been building.

Mahsa Balaie: Congratulations.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but. But, yeah, [01:01:35] someone takes over the social media and might do something that we really don’t [01:01:40] like. It might be a it might be an aesthetic thing. It might like, by the way, you know, sometimes [01:01:45] you get a social media person who has nothing to do with dentistry and then says something that in a Dental world [01:01:50] you would never say, yeah, doesn’t fit. Or it might spell carbamide wrong because [01:01:55] they’ve never, never come across the word carbamide peroxide, you know? But whereas in our world it seems so obvious. Yeah. So [01:02:00] sometimes there are mistakes that are just, like, painful to see. Yeah. But you [01:02:05] have to understand that to grow, you have to. That dip will [01:02:10] come. Yeah. And then eventually they’ll end up doing the job better than you. Yes. [01:02:15] And it’s that’s the key thing that they’ll end up doing the job better than you because their [01:02:20] whole world will be answering that phone. Whereas, you know, answering that phone is only one part of your [01:02:25] life. Yeah, it’s understanding that. And which leads me to the question [01:02:30] of ambition for the future. Because I come across [01:02:35] a lot of mothers. Right. Particularly mothers who kind of want it all. You [01:02:40] know, they they literally want to go to the gym. They want their kids to be Oxford [01:02:45] and Cambridge. They want their business to be whatever it is. And what [01:02:50] are you willing to sacrifice for what? Because, [01:02:55] I mean, I don’t need to tell you. Everything you do comes with sacrifice. Yeah. Yeah. [01:03:00] I mean, I had Anushka Brogan in front of me. She’s got three children, 43 practices. [01:03:05]

Mahsa Balaie: I listened to that podcast. Incredible. Absolutely. Just inspirational.

Payman Langroudi: Really incredible [01:03:10] lady. But. Okay. What are you willing to sacrifice? To [01:03:15] get what?

Mahsa Balaie: Sleep?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. To get what?

Mahsa Balaie: Everything. [01:03:20]

Payman Langroudi: That’s what I mean. Ambition. What’s the ambition? Are you the multiple [01:03:25] practice type? No. You’ve decided already. You’ve ruled it out. You’ve ruled it out? Yeah. [01:03:30] Why?

Mahsa Balaie: I don’t know. I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: I say no. By the way, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. [01:03:35]

Mahsa Balaie: With that.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, nothing wrong with having one. One. Brilliant practice. I feel like.

Mahsa Balaie: I’m very early on in my journey. [01:03:40] Yeah. Um. And I feel like it’s only just starting to do this [01:03:45] and go up. Yeah. Um, because it was so low before, you know. And through [01:03:50] no fault of anyone but my own, you know, I had a baby in the middle and and all the rest of it. [01:03:55] So I put that spanner in the works. Um, if I was [01:04:00] to set up another practice, it would be, um, a [01:04:05] squat, and I would.

Payman Langroudi: Why?

Mahsa Balaie: Because [01:04:10] I want it done my way aesthetically. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Or do you [01:04:15] mean the people know?

Mahsa Balaie: Aesthetically, I’d want it done my way. Yeah I would. And [01:04:20] I really hope my husband would love this. He’d be like, I told you, we should have done a squat. [01:04:25] I yeah, I didn’t we didn’t have the financial backing to do a squat to begin with.

Payman Langroudi: Squats are very [01:04:30] risky and painful.

Mahsa Balaie: So risky. And so I would want to be in a position where I can risk. [01:04:35] Doing that and potentially not making [01:04:40] anything for two and a half years. Three years until it takes. Um, um. Martina [01:04:45] Hodgson. Yeah. So she, I met [01:04:50] her, I did the, um, small Dental Academy ortho pgdip. Okay. Yeah. And she she came to [01:04:55] lecture, um, once for Invisalign, and she was talking about. Or was she on [01:05:00] here?

Payman Langroudi: She was on my.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, she was talking about when she was setting up the dental architect. Right. And [01:05:05] I loved that story. I was like, that’s incredible. You know, and it takes massive [01:05:10] guts to do that. Um, and I’d love to, but I want to do it [01:05:15] without any anxiety. I don’t know if that’s ever going to be possible because I’m an anxious person. Right. [01:05:20]

Payman Langroudi: New business with that anxiety is like.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, exactly. But I want to be able [01:05:25] to build it how I want to build it. I want to be able to kit it out, um, how I want to get it out. [01:05:30] Um.

Payman Langroudi: I like that, I like that. So so you’re saying you’re saying there is this little sort [01:05:35] of kernel of ambition.

Mahsa Balaie: Devil in me.

Payman Langroudi: That tells you you want to open a squat. And [01:05:40] by the way, all of us as dentists, we have that right. Our dream practice. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. [01:05:45] But I kind of with you, I think as an exercise, it makes a lot of sense whether [01:05:50] or not you’re going to open a squat to pull yourself out of [01:05:55] this one. Yeah. Because it’s not in your sort of instincts to, to do that [01:06:00] you need to do it. Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Do what?

Payman Langroudi: Like systemise it so that you’re not necessary [01:06:05] to it.

Mahsa Balaie: Yes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I agree as an exercise that obviously if you want to open 42 [01:06:10] of them, you’ll have to do that because you know you’re not going to be in 42 places at once. Yeah, but I’m saying [01:06:15] as an exercise. Systemise it. Yeah. And get over this notion of everything has to be done. [01:06:20] Exactly right. Yeah. So because because I was there for the first eight years. Yeah. [01:06:25] And it was an error.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Our practice manager, um, [01:06:30] I put her on a pedestal. She’s incredible. Actually, all of our members of staff are. They’re [01:06:35] great. Um. And I, we’re going away.

Payman Langroudi: Was she from Dental? Was she there already? [01:06:40]

Mahsa Balaie: She’s been, uh. Well, she started, actually, same day as me. Yeah. So, um, when [01:06:45] I started there as an associate, as we were, the sale was going through. She started as a dental [01:06:50] nurse. Um, so we’ve been there exactly the same amount of time. She’s been a dental nurse for years. Over [01:06:55] ten years. Um, and the opportunity arose, and [01:07:00] she’s the sort of person I want to retain, I must retain. She’s great. And I said, [01:07:05] you know, um, would you consider training as a practice manager? And she was like, [01:07:10] oh, you know, I love the clinical side. I don’t want to go nonclinical. It’s like, that’s okay. You [01:07:15] can still be clinical, but kind of do both. Anyway, she [01:07:20] did her course.

Payman Langroudi: What course was it?

Mahsa Balaie: Um, she found it. [01:07:25] I paid for it, I don’t know, sorry. Yeah. Um, but she’s she’s she’s very [01:07:30] pernickety. So she looked for. Yeah, looked for courses for months and then was like, I think I [01:07:35] found the one I want to do. I offer, I always offer training to my, um, staff. So [01:07:40] what do you want to do next? How do you want to progress?

Payman Langroudi: So anyway in the appraisal. [01:07:45]

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Yeah, always.

Payman Langroudi: And you pay for it. Always. Yeah, I like that.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. And, [01:07:50] um, anyway, so, um, the other day we sat down and I said, well, Amy, [01:07:55] um, we’re going away. So we’re going away for three weeks in April. [01:08:00] First time ever. Pretty much.

Payman Langroudi: Where [01:08:05] are you going?

Mahsa Balaie: Just going back home. Back to Iran. My in-laws haven’t met my daughter, so we’re going to go.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:08:10] nice.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. And I said, what do we need to have in place for [01:08:15] you not to need me for three weeks? And she turned around and was like, I don’t need you.

Payman Langroudi: Ooh.

Mahsa Balaie: And [01:08:20] I was like, I beg your pardon? I don’t need you. I have all the passwords. [01:08:25] The only thing I need you to do is make sure payroll is set up. And our accountant does that anyway. Make [01:08:30] sure it’s so that everyone gets paid on time. I won’t call you. I won’t text you. [01:08:35] I don’t need you.

Payman Langroudi: What a star.

Mahsa Balaie: And for the first time, I trusted her. [01:08:40] I trust her. Not past tense. I trust her, and I was like, cool. And [01:08:45] I don’t think you realise. Maybe you do. After this conversation. What [01:08:50] a pivotal moment that is for me to be like. Cool. She’ll deal with it. I’m. I’m. [01:08:55] Let’s go on holiday. Are we going to the lounge first? You know. Um. [01:09:00] And I could not have done that a year ago. There’s no way I could have done it a year ago, but definitely not two years ago. Go [01:09:05] away for three weeks and not think. Now I’m going to [01:09:10] be thinking about the practice. I’m going to be thinking about everything.

Payman Langroudi: No, but the fact that you’ve got the confidence that.

Mahsa Balaie: I don’t need.

Payman Langroudi: To. [01:09:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: I love that.

Payman Langroudi: You know, like, I think you should lock her down [01:09:20] 100%. Make sure she doesn’t leave you. Um, but at the same time, as [01:09:25] you know, the employee is a combination of [01:09:30] the person and the nurturing. Yeah. [01:09:35] The situation you’ve put in place. Yeah. Yeah. It’s important to bear that in mind. Yeah, that [01:09:40] that, you know, the person has a sort of like a, for instance, this [01:09:45] thing you’re saying about training. Yeah. For you to say to someone, [01:09:50] what do you want to learn? And I will pay for it. Yeah. Isn’t the normal situation in most practices? [01:09:55]

Mahsa Balaie: I’ve come to realise that, um. You had somebody. I don’t remember his name. [01:10:00] Um, you had somebody on the podcast. Um, and they, um, he [01:10:05] was basically talking about, you know, how do I incentivise incentivise my staff? Yeah. [01:10:10] And that really struck a chord with me because I was like, why would they stay [01:10:15] otherwise? You know, if it’s the same day in, day out. It’s [01:10:20] very common practice to look for a new job. Um, very [01:10:25] common, especially with LinkedIn. All the rest of it. You’re constantly looking for a new job. What can I [01:10:30] do to make my staff want to stay? Because if I’m doing [01:10:35] all of that and they still don’t want to stay, you’re not good enough for me anyway. You’re not. We’re not the right match. And I always [01:10:40] say that to, um, if I am hiring, um, I always say, you [01:10:45] know, I want you to be here as much as I want you to be here. And I always offer [01:10:50] a, um, one day where they come and shadow like a like a trial day. Yeah. [01:10:55] Because there’s no point in getting them straight in, um. And [01:11:00] two weeks, two months down the line, they’d be like, this isn’t for me.

Mahsa Balaie: I want them to have an [01:11:05] idea because where there is no hierarchy in our practice, I own the [01:11:10] practice because that’s my position. Um, and reception because that’s their, you know, [01:11:15] that’s their job title. But there’s no hierarchy in the practice. That’s a good and a bad thing. Um, I think [01:11:20] um, but that’s not to everyone’s liking. Some people need hierarchy. [01:11:25] Yeah. Um, and I need them to know that before they enter my practice under contract. [01:11:30] Um, but, yeah, you know, things like offering training [01:11:35] for me, that’s the least I can do. Um, I want I why [01:11:40] do we go on so many courses? You know, um, why why did I come to Mini smile makeover? Why do [01:11:45] I do as much CPD apart from the fact that I have to? Why do I do? It is because I want to progress. I want to [01:11:50] learn. I don’t want to just live a monotonous life where I. I [01:11:55] know the same amount about composite as I did when I studied it in year two, you know. [01:12:00]

Payman Langroudi: And what about financial incentives?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. We do. I mean, we weren’t in [01:12:05] a position, for example, a year ago. Um, no. Uh, yeah, [01:12:10] the year before that. They’re very understanding. But because they can [01:12:15] see how much effort we go to, they can see what a non-toxic [01:12:20] environment it is, and they can see how much we do outside of monetary [01:12:25] incentives. They’re like, it’s cool. Just whenever you can. I know that, [01:12:30] I know that bonuses are not a given. Um, but I like to give them if I can. [01:12:35]

Payman Langroudi: And did you like, I don’t know, dinners, drinks?

Mahsa Balaie: Loads.

Payman Langroudi: Really? [01:12:40]

Mahsa Balaie: Well, we have a practice meeting every month. Um, and I provide lunch [01:12:45] for that. We, um. I’m working with Jack at store Small. Um. And [01:12:50] he was like, should I bring lunch? Um, and we’re having a lunch and learn. And I was like, don’t worry, I’ll [01:12:55] provide it. He’s like, okay, you know, just sandwiches. I’m like, no, we get like, I really like supporting [01:13:00] local businesses. So I’ll do like either the local cafe or the local Thai or the local Chinese. [01:13:05] And he’s like, oh my goodness, you’re really setting the bar high. I love that sort of thing. Um, I the [01:13:10] practice I worked in in Portsmouth, there were a few members of staff that were really long [01:13:15] standing there, like 12, 15, 20 years, and they always used to reminisce about [01:13:20] how the old bosses used to take them to like the West End for theatres and stuff. I’m like, okay, [01:13:25] I’m not going that far, but I’ll do as much as I can. Um, whatever is within my capacity, I’ll [01:13:30] do. Um, we try and do once a year, twice a year socials. Um, [01:13:35] so we’re hoping for a spring social, so, I don’t know, we’ll just go for dinner or something [01:13:40] a little bit more creative. I don’t know, I really want to do tufting. So we’ll probably do that somewhere. Um, and then [01:13:45] obviously Christmas party.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get on to the darker part. Errors. [01:13:50] Clinical errors. Yeah. What comes to mind [01:13:55] when I say that? What errors can you tell us about that someone else can learn from? [01:14:00]

Mahsa Balaie: Um, the one that comes to mind. I was quite a [01:14:05] recent graduate, um, in my first job. And, um, [01:14:10] you just sort of thrown in the deep end, right? Um, and there’s this. Bless her. This 15 [01:14:15] year old girl, massive decay on her lower right six. Um, [01:14:20] and she’s then going to go in for orthodontics afterwards, so she needs this restored. [01:14:25] And I don’t know what came over me. I just kept drilling [01:14:30] and then perforated it, and [01:14:35] I didn’t know what to do. Um, so that was my clinical [01:14:40] error. But on reflection, we’re only human, [01:14:45] right? Like, I was a new graduate. Probably should have had someone holding my hand [01:14:50] a little bit more than they were. Um, but then I just communicated it. They were so understanding. [01:14:55] This comes back to Spain versus England. I’m like, this is the situation. I’m [01:15:00] so sorry. I did try my best, but you know, X, Y and Z, and they were so understanding [01:15:05] about it. Um, but that was my first clinical error. Um. [01:15:10]

Payman Langroudi: And I’m not really going to accept [01:15:15] that. It’s not very great. There must have been bigger clinical errors than that.

Mahsa Balaie: I [01:15:20] don’t know. I honestly, I, you know. [01:15:25]

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Management error. Like a, like a your most difficult patient.

Mahsa Balaie: My [01:15:30] biggest management error um, is [01:15:35] going above and beyond.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Often that’s the situation when it happens. Right?

Mahsa Balaie: It is [01:15:40] honestly, the people I think I’ve become a little bit, um, I [01:15:45] don’t know if I should say this and put it out in the universe. A little bit immune to complaints. Um, [01:15:50] but the only people, the biggest complaints [01:15:55] have come to the people who I have gone above and beyond for, um. [01:16:00]

Payman Langroudi: Just tell us about it.

Mahsa Balaie: Oh my goodness. I’m not sure I am. I allowed I’m not [01:16:05] sure.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s going to stop.

Mahsa Balaie: You. I don’t know, I don’t know, no. So, for example, I had a patient [01:16:10] who came in, um, and I always my mentors, um, [01:16:15] in Portsmouth. Fantastic. Um, and they really taught me [01:16:20] everything I need. Not just NHS, everything, consent, um, communication, [01:16:25] etc.. Notes. Um, my old boss used to go through my [01:16:30] notes in lunch break and be like, you forgot this, you forgot that. And at the time it was really offensive. But actually I really [01:16:35] appreciated it. So anyway, this patient comes in and, [01:16:40] um, I consent him. I say, look, I think you should be referred for this extraction. He’s like, oh, [01:16:45] don’t worry, you know, and we’ve always had very good rapport. Um, he’s like, no, it’s [01:16:50] cool, I trust you. If anything goes wrong, don’t worry about it. Um, and he himself is [01:16:55] a retired medical professional. Um, so [01:17:00] I feel like we’re on the same page. He understands me, I consent him. It’s all written. It’s all scanned. [01:17:05]

Payman Langroudi: What were you thinking to refer? Was it particularly difficult?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, I could see the sinus. I could see, you know, you [01:17:10] get a vibe, right? And I’m, like, broken down. Yeah. So he’d come [01:17:15] in with pain. Um, I had diagnosed a hairline fracture. He was like, [01:17:20] I don’t think it’s that. I was like, let me open a dress, see if I can at least get you out of pain. Pain worsened. [01:17:25] One of these, like, don’t shouldn’t have touched it to begin with. So a specialist. So [01:17:30] then every time he’s calling first thing in the morning, I’m like, get [01:17:35] him in. Don’t worry, I’ll get him in. I’ll go. The amount of times I gave up my lunch break for this guy. Yeah. Um, [01:17:40] so then I get an email. Anyway, [01:17:45] so we ended up having to take the 2000. Look, there’s nothing I can please let me send [01:17:50] you to a specialist. No, I want the tooth out. I think we should. We should send you for a restore ability assessment. [01:17:55] No, I want the two that I was like, okay, sign here. So then I’m [01:18:00] taking it out. Obviously it breaks. The palatal root is probably [01:18:05] touching the sinus. He’s in excruciating pain. I’m like, I’m going to abandon the extraction here. I am [01:18:10] going to refer you to, um, have the root out by oral surgery. So [01:18:15] then it goes away. Um, anyway, he [01:18:20] obviously pulls a few strings getting gets in with Imus quicker, gets it [01:18:25] out, etc. and then, um, about maybe six [01:18:30] months later, I get an email from the GDC.

Payman Langroudi: Or GDC.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah. [01:18:35] And my heart dropped.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: I was like, what is this? Um, and he basically [01:18:40] put in a fitness to practice complaint. Um, she’s not safe [01:18:45] for the community. She doesn’t know what she’s doing, etc., etc.. Um, [01:18:50] and I, I take everything to heart.

Payman Langroudi: You’re [01:18:55] gonna. You’re gonna. You know, that’s.

Mahsa Balaie: More than anything. I’m like. I [01:19:00] did everything for you.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: I gave up my lunch breaks. I was very concise. I, [01:19:05] um, you know, I tried to send you to a. I tried to [01:19:10] send you to someone else, or you didn’t want it.

Payman Langroudi: What was your emotion? What was. What was what was what was it? What was?

Mahsa Balaie: I got gallbladder [01:19:15] flare up straight away.

Payman Langroudi: What was the main emotion? Was it like betrayal?

Mahsa Balaie: Betrayal? [01:19:20]

Payman Langroudi: Was it. Was it.

Mahsa Balaie: Betrayal?

Payman Langroudi: Did you get on with him?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, massively. [01:19:25] Hey, how are you doing? How’s the family so far? Yeah. Um, he knew that I was pregnant. He [01:19:30] knew I’d just given birth, and I was. And I felt like it was a personal vendetta. [01:19:35] And for somebody who, um, was in the medical profession, I [01:19:40] won’t say what sector. Um, he knew that the heartbreak this was going [01:19:45] to cause, and he knew the stress it was going to cause. And that’s why I felt it was personal. Um, um, [01:19:50] but, you know, it all came back and they were like, yeah, he’s got no reason. It took a little while, [01:19:55] but it was thrown out, you know, straight away.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:20:00] on reflection, um, what was the error?

Mahsa Balaie: I, [01:20:05] I think if I had the same situation today, I would [01:20:10] say I, I will not treat you.

Payman Langroudi: So you insist on the referral [01:20:15] more?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. I’d insist either for a restore ability assessment with a specialist [01:20:20] or for an extraction with a specialist. And I think I’ve started to get a vibe for these sorts [01:20:25] of patients. Um, and it’s not nice to generalise.

Payman Langroudi: No, it’s an experience thing that [01:20:30] you can.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. So I would just be like, it’s in your best interest and mine [01:20:35] that we refer you on. Um, because.

Payman Langroudi: But do you think that, [01:20:40] do you think it was the difficulty of the case itself, or do you think you [01:20:45] had a bad feeling about the person?

Mahsa Balaie: I felt like I owed him something because we [01:20:50] got on so well.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, because.

Mahsa Balaie: I was like, let me. You know, he’ll be fine. If it doesn’t go right, [01:20:55] he’ll be fine because, you know, sometimes it doesn’t go right. Um.

Payman Langroudi: How [01:21:00] long did that GDC thing go on for?

Mahsa Balaie: Um. Over [01:21:05] six months.

Payman Langroudi: Six months of pain. And your notes were [01:21:10] really good. Were they.

Mahsa Balaie: Always airtight?

Payman Langroudi: So is that what sort of swung it that you’d put all of this [01:21:15] in the notes?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%, 100%. And you know what? I had a feeling. I had a feeling.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:21:20] you did better on the notes than than usual.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, sort [01:21:25] of like I’m always quite very comprehensive. Anyway, um, but this [01:21:30] patient came back and said, um, I’ve been taking my wife’s antibiotics. [01:21:35] Can you just top them up for her? And I was like, pardon? And that [01:21:40] I put, like, very long notes in, um, being like, [01:21:45] no, sorry. That’s not that’s not right. Um, but [01:21:50] yeah, that was that was not a very nice time in my life. [01:21:55]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I bet, I bet. The weird thing about being a dentist is any [01:22:00] day, any patient could lead to six months or 12 months or 24 months [01:22:05] of pain and that.

Mahsa Balaie: Or infinite pain. Because actually, [01:22:10] actually, it could ruin someone’s life. Um, and [01:22:15] I think what we, I think what people lose sight of is [01:22:20] that we’re human, right? Um, yes. We’re dentists. [01:22:25] Yes. We have a certain amount of training and qualifications, but we are human. It’s [01:22:30] human error. Um, and that [01:22:35] is something that is very overlooked.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, I stopped [01:22:40] practising in 2012. Yeah, but I still remember one patient complaint. [01:22:45] To this day, I mean, probably 2009. It’s exactly what you said when I was [01:22:50] going out of my way for someone I was really doing above and beyond. [01:22:55] And then the complaint, it was just one word in the complaint letter. It never went to GDC or [01:23:00] anything. There was one word in the complaint letter about I can’t remember, but it was like that. [01:23:05] He wasn’t helping, you know, like something like that. And because I was really. [01:23:10]

Mahsa Balaie: Above.

Payman Langroudi: And beyond. Yeah, it can really get to you. It’s such a weird thing. You know, [01:23:15] like, we all understand not to take these things personally, but. But you do.

Mahsa Balaie: How [01:23:20] do you not? How do you not? Because you know, you you have gone [01:23:25] above and beyond, and you’ve given up your time and didn’t need to. Could have said, sorry, [01:23:30] this is my lunch break. Come back later or wait for the next gap, or I don’t have an emergency slot till Friday. [01:23:35] That’s when you’ll wait to because guess what? You call the GP and if there’s no appointments, there’s no appointment. They won’t make [01:23:40] space for you. Um, so yeah, I take it. I take it personally, you know? No. [01:23:45] Um. Yeah, I can see why you took it personally.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [01:23:50] that’s that’s much better than the, uh, perforation. We learn from that, right? We learn [01:23:55] from that. Let’s get to the final questions. Fantasy [01:24:00] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive. Who [01:24:05] are you having?

Mahsa Balaie: So I really struggle with this question. And every [01:24:10] time you ask it on the podcast, I’m like, who would I have? Who would I have? I asked my husband. Right. [01:24:15] And I was like, babe, I’m going on this podcast. He’s probably going to ask me this [01:24:20] question. What’s your answer? Was that dinner? He was like, you three, like me, [01:24:25] my son and my daughter. And I was like, no. Pretend we’re.

Payman Langroudi: There.

Mahsa Balaie: Do better. And [01:24:30] he goes, uh, okay. And he named his three best mates. And he’s like, well, I’ll just have a piss up. [01:24:35] And I was like, at first I sort of thought, come on, [01:24:40] do better. And then I thought, this guy’s really content with his life. He just wants to have [01:24:45] a good time with his three best mates or his three family members, and [01:24:50] that’s good enough for him, right? So then I got thinking and I thought, I don’t really [01:24:55] idolise anyone, I don’t. If you say to me, who’s your favourite actor? I don’t know. Right. Who’s your favourite [01:25:00] singer? I don’t know. I like, I like music, I like movies, but I don’t idolise anyone. Um. [01:25:05] One person. One [01:25:10] person I would have. I promised myself I wouldn’t [01:25:15] do this. One person I would have is my older brother. Who? [01:25:25] Um. He [01:25:30] died when he was really young, and I was really young. Um. And I [01:25:35] just feel like I’d love to have him there. Um. [01:25:40]

Payman Langroudi: How old was.

Mahsa Balaie: He? He was 12.

Payman Langroudi: 12.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. Um. [01:25:45]

Payman Langroudi: What happened?

Mahsa Balaie: He was really unwell. Um, yeah. [01:25:50] He was really unwell for a very long time. Um, so I [01:25:55] think a lot of us, like, we just didn’t let it go and sort of, um. I [01:26:00] just wondered how he’s doing. The [01:26:05] other person I would have, um. And everyone’s just sort of like, why would you have that person is. R.r. [01:26:10] Tolkien, who wrote Hobbit. And I just felt like someone [01:26:15] with that sort of imagination is so worth talking to. Sure, you’re going to have so many cool stories at that [01:26:20] table. Um, and I really don’t know who the third person [01:26:25] would be. Yeah, definitely those two people. Um, I don’t know, just [01:26:30] for the fun of it. My husband, he’s quite cool. He’s a cool cat.

Payman Langroudi: Fair enough. [01:26:35] Final question. Deathbed piece [01:26:40] of advice. Three pieces of advice for your friends and family. Yeah. On your deathbed. [01:26:45]

Mahsa Balaie: And. Just dive [01:26:50] in. Dive in. Take that chance.

Payman Langroudi: Go all in.

Mahsa Balaie: Go [01:26:55] all in. Learn to swim. Learn to swim in the shallow [01:27:00] end. And then once you know that you can do it. Dive in, dive in. And at some point you’ll float. That’s [01:27:05] the first one. Second one would be to never [01:27:10] compromise your values for anyone. [01:27:15] Um.

Payman Langroudi: Like a ethical thing?

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. [01:27:20] Yeah. So, like, if you believe in something, follow that through. [01:27:25] Yeah. Um, I feel like as people, we should be malleable to [01:27:30] a certain extent. But that one sort of belief and drive [01:27:35] should always be there. And, um. And the third one [01:27:40] is, um, life is not 100% happy all [01:27:45] the time. There’s pockets of happiness. And as long as you take the [01:27:50] time to really take them in, the rest doesn’t really matter. The rest is sort of travelling [01:27:55] from one pocket of happiness to the next. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s interesting. Yeah. That’s [01:28:00] interesting. That’s. I’ve never heard that one before. What about something that, [01:28:05] you know, like these, the ones you said are sort of, uh, I [01:28:10] dive all in, so you should too, or I. What about things that you wish you’d [01:28:15] done and you haven’t? I mean, for the sake of the argument, [01:28:20] go to the gym more because I didn’t, you know, something like that. What would you say? [01:28:25]

Mahsa Balaie: Um, sorry. Ask the question [01:28:30] again so I can.

Payman Langroudi: You know, the way you can answer that question is these three things really worked for me. [01:28:35] So you should do them too. Yeah, but that’s that’s one way of answering it. Another way of answering it [01:28:40] is I wish I was more risk taking. I wish I was more so, you [01:28:45] know, to be more risk taking be, you know, whatever, whatever the thing is. So what’s that thing that you wish [01:28:50] you were more, um.

Mahsa Balaie: I wish I was more invested in my mental [01:28:55] health prior to when I became invested in my mental health earlier. Yeah. Yeah, [01:29:00] definitely. Um, I don’t think it would have changed the trajectory of my life, [01:29:05] but I definitely feel like it would have helped me deal with things a little bit better. Um.

Payman Langroudi: So, [01:29:10] I mean, when you say invested in your mental health, are you now is there [01:29:15] a is there a bit of your head that’s like masses, mental health. [01:29:20]

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: And what you do for that 100% really, really 100%. And [01:29:25] it wasn’t there before.

Mahsa Balaie: No, no, before I was on auto drive.

Payman Langroudi: Just go. [01:29:30]

Mahsa Balaie: Right. Um, and then if I felt a bit iffy, I’d be like, oh, just get out of the funk, you know? [01:29:35] But I never did anything to nurture my mental health and [01:29:40] to to sort of nurture positivity.

Payman Langroudi: And so what do you do now? I mean, like, look, [01:29:45] your physical health journal. Oh, really?

Mahsa Balaie: Really a journal. Yeah. So I follow this [01:29:50] broadcast on Instagram. Um, that is very sort of, um, like cosmic. [01:29:55] And, you know, Saturn is in there, but it’s really nice because it gives you, [01:30:00] um, something to think about that day. So think about [01:30:05] what you want to, um, let go of. And so I sit down and [01:30:10] I journal that and I’m like, I would like to let go of blah, blah, blah. This is how I’m going to do it.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:30:15] so is it an app that asks you that question?

Mahsa Balaie: No. On Instagram, it’s a broadcast. So [01:30:20] every day she’ll send out this broadcast to everyone who’s following.

Payman Langroudi: What’s it called?

Mahsa Balaie: I don’t know, I’ll have to [01:30:25] tell you. It’s really cool. I’ll show you. Hold on. Where are [01:30:30] we?

Payman Langroudi: And then when you journal, do you look back on things you wrote a [01:30:35] couple of months ago and think, God, I can’t believe I was worried about that then or.

Mahsa Balaie: A little bit. I mean, I haven’t [01:30:40] been journaling for that long. Um, but yeah, you sort of look [01:30:45] back and you’re like, okay, well, where are we now in comparison? Mhm. Um, [01:30:50] did anything really bad come of it. No. And you sort of just learn from it [01:30:55] that way. So yeah, I, it’s called cosmic community.

Payman Langroudi: Cosmic cosmic. [01:31:00]

Mahsa Balaie: Community.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, so I do that um, and honestly, the [01:31:05] gym, I just, I know that that is me filling my cup for the day [01:31:10] and once I’ve filled my cup, um, and sort of. That brings me on to my next point [01:31:15] that I would sort of, I wish, I, I wish I took more time to fill my cup because unless my, my [01:31:20] cup is full, I cannot fill everyone else’s. Um, and [01:31:25] that’s. Yeah, that’s something I believe in massively now.

Payman Langroudi: Because people people pleasing is a disease [01:31:30] in itself. Mhm. Yeah. And it’s it’s one of the most difficult ones because [01:31:35] the type of people who people pleasers are wonderful to be around because they spend [01:31:40] all their lives making you happy. Yeah. And you kind of put them on a pedestal in that [01:31:45] sense. Yeah. And yet it can it can be it can be a real problem.

Mahsa Balaie: And then you [01:31:50] don’t know what demons they’re fighting behind the scenes.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Because you’re not filling your own cup, as you say. Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. [01:31:55] That that was a really big process for me. That was a really big process for me because I [01:32:00] would beat myself up about it. And oh, but, you know, I’d go home [01:32:05] and it would really get me down. Um, but now [01:32:10] I just a trying to be less of a people pleaser. Um, [01:32:15] but not massively. I think it’s a good trait to have as well. You know, like, make people around you happy. Why [01:32:20] not? Of course. Just not at your own expense.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Um. But, yeah, filling my cup, I [01:32:25] would, I would encourage everyone to do something. Doesn’t doesn’t matter what it is. [01:32:30] Fill your cup.

Payman Langroudi: You seem to have a lovely relationship with your husband, who I’ve never [01:32:35] met. But what’s the secret to that? I mean, it’s difficult when two kids come along. [01:32:40] Business, all of that. Do you work on that?

Mahsa Balaie: Do you work on our relationship? [01:32:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, like. Like, you know, like you’re saying to work on your mental health. Yeah. [01:32:50] Sometimes with the relationship. Sometimes the relationship is what gives first or [01:32:55] gives the most. Because you’re not going to let your kids situation give. [01:33:00] You can’t let your business give. Sometimes the relationship gives. So [01:33:05] I mean, do you do date nights? I mean, what is it? What is it like?

Mahsa Balaie: Do we do date nights? Our kids are four and two. Yeah. What [01:33:10] do you think?

Payman Langroudi: Well, do you not have.

Mahsa Balaie: A.

Payman Langroudi: Babysitter?

Mahsa Balaie: No. No, we.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:33:15] think the problem with moving around so much.

Mahsa Balaie: This is.

Payman Langroudi: It.

Mahsa Balaie: Well, well, this.

Payman Langroudi: Is.

Mahsa Balaie: It. I think my my relationship [01:33:20] with my husband is touchwood, as fantastic as it is. Um, because we [01:33:25] have no one else. We have no choice but to be good. You [01:33:30] know, we we know that at the end of the day, we can fall back on [01:33:35] each other. He is very. He’s, um, you know, very positive. [01:33:40] And he’ll be fine. Oh my goodness. The one thing he will always say when I was worrying. [01:33:45] Don’t worry. Don’t worry. Oh, yeah. Cool. I’m done worrying. Okay. Um, but [01:33:50] he’s that sort of person. And I think, you know what? On reflection, I probably [01:33:55] should put we probably should put a bit more effort into nurturing our [01:34:00] relationship. I think we’re in that season of our life where maybe we can’t because there’s so much [01:34:05] else going on.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: Um, first and foremost, we are both [01:34:10] very much set on the fact that there’s no way out. So this either thrives or [01:34:15] it thrives. That’s it. Um, but I think we both are [01:34:20] sort of at peace with the fact that we have each other. [01:34:25] And doesn’t matter what, where the pockets of sunshine are. We’re [01:34:30] still we’re going to get there and we’ll get there together and that’s fine. Um, I think [01:34:35] being quite isolated demographically at the moment sort of geographically. [01:34:40]

Payman Langroudi: Makes that happen.

Mahsa Balaie: It makes that happen, definitely. Um, but even then, [01:34:45] like, um, you know, we are always talking about, um, trying [01:34:50] to find new sort of parent friends, um, to spend our time with. And [01:34:55] we always come back to the fact that we have so much fun together, just us four. We love it, and I don’t [01:35:00] I don’t necessarily, um, encourage only being in your family unit, [01:35:05] but I think it’s quite nice when you comfortably can be.

Payman Langroudi: Um, definitely, definitely. The thing is, new friends. [01:35:10] I mean, who needs new friends when you’ve got old friends? That’s. That’s my feeling on that.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. I [01:35:15] think when you when your new parents and we have been moving around like, loads. One of [01:35:20] my best friends, she’s got this NCT group that she just goes back to every single time because she’s been in the [01:35:25] same place. We don’t have that. And our son was born in Covid. There was no NCT then. And [01:35:30] so the friends that we, one of my best mum friends I met on an app called peanut, which is [01:35:35] a tinder for mums, right?

Payman Langroudi: Um, Tinder for mums.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s great to find friends. [01:35:40]

Mahsa Balaie: So, um, it’s basically. Yeah. You sign up to the app and you swipe [01:35:45] on, you have a profile.

Payman Langroudi: Go.

Mahsa Balaie: On and you swipe right or left.

Payman Langroudi: To find friends. [01:35:50] Yeah. Buddies. Mum friends. Other mum. Friends.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: In the area. Yeah. Oh, [01:35:55] God.

Mahsa Balaie: Yeah. So you set your radius.

Payman Langroudi: What’s it called? Peanut.

Mahsa Balaie: Peanut?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Mahsa Balaie: And one of my best [01:36:00] friends. Hannah. Yeah, we met on there. We were both, like, six weeks pregnant with our son.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:36:05] you look at the face of the person, decide if they’re going to be your friend or not.

Mahsa Balaie: Well, no. There’s [01:36:10] a small description. Yeah. Small description. Um. It’s crazy. Right? Like, [01:36:15] looking back on it, you’re like, geez, I must have been really desperate. Um, [01:36:20] but one of my best friends, one of my best mum friends comes from there. So, um.

Payman Langroudi: This [01:36:25] podcast is brought to you by peanut, the Tinder for moms. I didn’t [01:36:30] have no idea. It’s been a massive pleasure. I really enjoyed it.

Mahsa Balaie: Thank you so much for having me.

Payman Langroudi: Thanks for being so open. [01:36:35] So open. You know, always, um, a lovely thing. Thanks a lot.

Mahsa Balaie: Thank you. [01:36:40]

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, the podcast [01:36:45] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:36:50] hosts, Payman Langroudi and [01:36:55] Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, [01:37:00] you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually [01:37:05] sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming [01:37:10] you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. [01:37:15] And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. [01:37:20] Thank you so so so much for listening. Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.