Kiran Malviya: And that’s the thing that for me has helped me throughout my career, and I also try to do that [00:00:05] a lot. Is the difference between potential and performance, right? When you’re hiring young [00:00:10] talent, uh, there will not be any performance because they’re just too young to have proved [00:00:15] anything at all. Right? But if you see the potential and you give them a chance, they [00:00:20] can do wonders. And for me, I’m very, very grateful to Reiko. Uh, because [00:00:25] she was the one who took a chance on me. I remember there were supposed to be 2 or 3 rounds [00:00:30] in that interview, and I didn’t have any, so I only spoke to Rica. And Rica basically [00:00:35] said, this is your chance. You either take it or leave it. I said, okay, I at least need to take permission from [00:00:40] my husband. Can [00:00:45] I please give him a call and ask him? Amazing. [00:00:50] And yeah, my husband was busy in a patient, so I had to, you know, just take a call. And. [00:00:55] And that’s how it began. So.

[VOICE]: This [00:01:00] is Dental Leaders. The [00:01:05] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [00:01:10] Your hosts Payman [00:01:15] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Ladies and gentlemen, [00:01:20] it gives me great pleasure to introduce Kiran Malviya to the Dental Leaders [00:01:25] podcast. She’s the vice president of Enterprise Solutions [00:01:30] at Strawman Group EMEA. But [00:01:35] that’s just a long title. And when I first met a guy called Stuart Thomson [00:01:40] at one of these DSL summits, he said, you’re going to meet Kiran next week. She owns [00:01:45] a third of the world when it comes to scrum, and you’re really going to [00:01:50] get on well. But our journey and our connection, actually, Kieran started much [00:01:55] earlier than that and I received a LinkedIn message from you on [00:02:00] the 29th of January this year. I’m going to read it out. It [00:02:05] says, hi, Prof. I came across your name multiple times and [00:02:10] I’m impressed with your work. I thought we should not only be connected, but also [00:02:15] probably meet when I’m in the UK or you’re in Europe. Regards, Kieran. [00:02:20] I thought, who’s this? That’s a random message. And [00:02:25] then I saw your title and your seniority and strawman. [00:02:30] Then I reached out to my man in the know Astrum and Guy Bellamy. Right. [00:02:35] And I said, Guy, do you know Kieran? She reached out to me and she and [00:02:40] he said to me, Kieran is a these were his words. Kieran is [00:02:45] a force. She’s such an amazing leader. And you guys are [00:02:50] going to get on. Right. So that was my introduction. And then a few months later, [00:02:55] probably about six months later, we met. Okay. And when we met, you said [00:03:00] a few things to me. And we had we’ve had numerous conversations which we want to bring to the surface [00:03:05] today, but one of them was actually when you [00:03:10] guys were engaging with me as a speaker in the DSO summit, and [00:03:15] you said it was a bit of a risk to [00:03:20] hire you. Prof. It was it was a risk for me. Right. We’re going [00:03:25] to go into your story and everything, but what I want to do is I want to give people just a flavour [00:03:30] of our relationship before before we get stuck into your story. Right? What [00:03:35] was the risk? What was going through your mind?

Kiran Malviya: Well, um, when [00:03:40] we are organising these events. Right. Uh, it’s, uh, I think [00:03:45] the only thing that’s in my mind is that if somebody is taking their time out [00:03:50] and attending these events. Yeah, they got to be worth their time. Yeah, [00:03:55] and nothing else. It’s not really for me to promote the products that strawman [00:04:00] sells. It’s not really to promote people from inside strawman or the brand strawman, [00:04:05] etc. all that can subtly happen. But the most important point for me is if [00:04:10] somebody is coming and sitting in that room for a day and a half, they have to take [00:04:15] something back. And that’s why the speaker selection process for me, [00:04:20] I’m a little too, uh, you know, deliberate in that one. Yeah, [00:04:25] of course, it didn’t come automatically. We have had some, uh, bad choices in the past, uh, [00:04:30] because of which you you create a process that works. Uh, and that’s why when I [00:04:35] said that there is a risk, it’s more to trigger or [00:04:40] to kind of, uh, you know, nudge you a little bit in seeing what [00:04:45] is your motivation towards coming and speaking at an event like that?

Prav Solanki: Wonderful. [00:04:50] Well, look, that helps, but I think we should get into your story. And [00:04:55] if I, if I was to just spend a moment going through your LinkedIn profile, we’d all be able to see [00:05:00] how the incredibly decorated career, right from having your own dental [00:05:05] clinics to numerous leadership positions over a decade at Philips [00:05:10] at different leadership levels, and now in Stralman as Vice President [00:05:15] of Enterprise Solutions EMEA. Um, before we [00:05:20] get stuck into your career and your role and your journey on on the work side of things, [00:05:25] and I want to understand what Kieran was like as a little girl [00:05:30] growing up, your childhood. Take me back to your childhood and your [00:05:35] upbringing. How would you describe that?

Kiran Malviya: Well, I think, um, [00:05:40] I feel that I possibly have [00:05:45] now become what I was as a girl. But through the journey somewhere, I was completely [00:05:50] opposite of what I am today, right? So as a as a little little girl, I [00:05:55] was really, you know, very carefree, wanted to play with boys all the time, did [00:06:00] not want to do anything which is any remotely homely. Yeah. And, uh, [00:06:05] my father’s, uh, you know, little angel, uh, and, uh, was [00:06:10] a very, uh, how should I say, law abiding good girl in the [00:06:15] sense that I remember a story where. Oh, actually, once my teacher basically [00:06:20] told me that, uh, you will never figure this out. Forget it. So [00:06:25] I went home and I closed my bags, kept my books aside, and I was, [00:06:30] uh, chilling. And my mom was like, don’t you want to do homework? And I was like, my teacher said, you’re never going [00:06:35] to figure it out, so why bother? So, you know, so I was that [00:06:40] dumb, I would say. And there’s another time. My brother, basically. Uh, in Indian mythology, [00:06:45] you take water, you pour it on somebody and you kind of curse them that you will [00:06:50] never be able to ride a bicycle, for example. And then I never bother even trying. [00:06:55] Right. So I was really a very, no wise, dumb idiot [00:07:00] girl. Back then, however, I had this carelessness in me which I see still [00:07:05] coming to me at this stage. Of course, I have come a long way in [00:07:10] courage and being brave and, you know, speaking up and all those things. But I think [00:07:15] that carelessness and that taking people on the face value, trusting people [00:07:20] part is still there. So yeah.

Prav Solanki: Interesting. And where was it that you grew up, [00:07:25] Kieran?

Kiran Malviya: I grew up in, uh, in India, uh, in the centre of India, there’s [00:07:30] a city called Nagpur. Uh, it’s also called the Orange City. It’s famous for its oranges. [00:07:35] They are, in fact, exported across the globe. Uh, that’s where I grew up. Yeah. It’s a [00:07:40] very warm place. Very, uh, 45, 50 degrees in the summers. [00:07:45] So, yeah, that’s where I grew up.

Prav Solanki: And what was what was that you mentioned [00:07:50] that, you know, you were a little bit you had a, you know, carefree spirit to use it as [00:07:55] a young girl. Right? If, if, if somebody said, you’re not going to do this, you were like, screw it. I’m not going [00:08:00] to do it anyway. Right? And, and whatnot. And you just took that sort of approach. And [00:08:05] what what was your upbringing like as a child? Your parents, were they strict? [00:08:10] Were they carefree? And were there any sort of stereotypes that [00:08:15] you kind of hear about as a Indian girl growing up? Never mind in [00:08:20] India, even here in the UK, right. Can you just add a little bit of colour to that in terms of what [00:08:25] your upbringing was like?

Kiran Malviya: And we spoke about this job, right? I mean, I had a very comfortable, [00:08:30] privileged childhood. Dad was a timber merchant. Uh, [00:08:35] so he did have sufficient money. But the stereotypes [00:08:40] of raising a girl child in India do exist, Right. So, for example, there [00:08:45] were different rules for me and my brother when it came to going out wearing clothes. What [00:08:50] sport is allowed and what sport is not allowed and stuff like that. Right. Yeah. And [00:08:55] then there is this very typical Indian parenting style where the girl [00:09:00] is prepared for the worst because they believe that the girl is anyway is gonna [00:09:05] be, you know, going to another house where they will have no control over what her life will be. [00:09:10] So we want her to be like having all the survival skills. And she should know [00:09:15] how to, you know, survive even in the worst conditions. She should be, you [00:09:20] know, educated and groomed enough to also survive in the best conditions and so [00:09:25] on. So they’re made very, very versatile in, in what style can [00:09:30] take. And that’s, that’s what my childhood was as well. Right. And uh, yeah, [00:09:35] I think I mean things like I wasn’t allowed to wear sleeveless [00:09:40] dresses.

Kiran Malviya: I wasn’t allowed to swim and things that I wasn’t allowed to. But on the [00:09:45] other hand, there was a whole lot of things that I was taught as well. Right. So, um, [00:09:50] of course, cooking is not a skill. I was supposed to be learning that, but I didn’t pick it up. [00:09:55] But, uh, but a lot of other things. Right? Wherein, [00:10:00] uh, how do you care for elders? Uh, how do you respect everybody no [00:10:05] matter what? And more core values of, uh, of love and [00:10:10] care? Uh, because the intention was always to make you ready for [00:10:15] running a household in the future. So, yeah, that’s [00:10:20] a little bit how, uh, my upbringing was. I won’t say that it was very strict. [00:10:25] It wasn’t strict, but it was traditional and conservative. And I’m very, very [00:10:30] thankful for my parents, to be honest, to be able to also inculcate those values in me. [00:10:35] Because when I see this generation today, that is something that is big time lacking. So [00:10:40] I would say that we were, in fact the lucky ones who did get best of both [00:10:45] worlds.

Prav Solanki: As a child growing up. Did you feel that [00:10:50] at the time? Did it feel unfair at any point or that that hey, you know, [00:10:55] why can my brother do this and I can’t do that, or or did you just accept that, [00:11:00] hey, this is Asian Indian culture.

Kiran Malviya: And I did not accept it. I was [00:11:05] quite a rebel. I was quite a rebel right from the start. And I remember writing these poetry’s [00:11:10] about all, you know, women empowerment and and feminism [00:11:15] and all of those. And I was made fun of it, um, by my brother, [00:11:20] by my dad, uh, by my friends. I was too much of a feminist. I have [00:11:25] to say. Of course, the definition of feminism has evolved as I grew older, [00:11:30] but I always felt for women’s rights. I always felt that, uh, why should you [00:11:35] have different rules? Uh, why can’t you do it all? Like I would. I [00:11:40] would rebel in small things. Like I wasn’t allowed to ride a bike. For [00:11:45] example, the one with the gears I was giving to one, which was easy. The one which did not have [00:11:50] any gears and could just go up it kind of thing. Right?

Prav Solanki: Because girls can’t do that.

Kiran Malviya: Exactly. [00:11:55] Because it’s not what girls write. Right. Girls don’t write the bikes. The. Yeah, the enfields [00:12:00] and the bullets of the world. But I just took my dad’s scooter and went away one day. [00:12:05] And, you know, the rammed it into a into a wedding hall. And [00:12:10] I came back home with a few bruises and just a kilt. Uh, but [00:12:15] I was I was quite a rebel right from the start. And I think that has also been [00:12:20] my strength in a way. Sure. Um, you know, just challenging the status quo, asking [00:12:25] questions. Uh, probably. That’s why my parents [00:12:30] were a little bit worried that I might, you know, completely break the [00:12:35] societal norms and they decided to marry me off super early. But [00:12:40] I do believe that that was probably why that’s that’s the streak that they saw in me. [00:12:45]

Prav Solanki: Really, really interesting conversation here. And so you mentioned [00:12:50] earlier on the, um, you were being prepared to run a home. [00:12:55]

Kiran Malviya: Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. The your upbringing, everything revolved around running a home. So, [00:13:00] you know, normally we, we look at our children now and we say, look, you know, I want my [00:13:05] daughter to be happy. She’s doing economics at university. Um, [00:13:10] and I just wanted to get a career and find something that a she’ll be successful [00:13:15] in. Whatever she deems to be successful should be super happy, independent, [00:13:20] and she’ll find a great life with somebody. Right. And but but in your in your [00:13:25] sense, I guess maybe your brother was given the given the, the basis [00:13:30] that actually what he’s going to do is he’s going to provide for the home. Right? Being the man of the house. [00:13:35] And you were going to go there and run a home. What did you understand? [00:13:40] Your future or your fate to be? Did that mean you could afford [00:13:45] to be less academic or. No. What was the what was the general message [00:13:50] from your parents at that point there?

Kiran Malviya: It’s a very, very interesting perspective, and I have tried [00:13:55] to ask this multiple times, and what I understood of what my dad had in [00:14:00] mind is he made sure that I had a professional qualification. That’s why I’m a dentist, [00:14:05] right? So I went into the dental school, um, although I did not [00:14:10] have any inclination for medical biology or whatever, but he believed [00:14:15] that dental education is a five year degree program. In five years, [00:14:20] you have a professional qualification in your hand. So if you want, you can also be independent [00:14:25] and working part time or whatever. And you can also take care of your family. [00:14:30] So you can basically have a nice work life balance. Uh, and that’s [00:14:35] why. And plus, my dad always believed that for a woman to [00:14:40] be educated is very, very important for the next generation to be good [00:14:45] human beings. So there was no question of not being academic at all. And that is probably [00:14:50] my my Asian upbringing as well. And my parents Asian thinking [00:14:55] parenting style, where they believe that academic is, is is mandatory. [00:15:00] That’s like a hygiene factor. There’s no you know, you can’t be based around it. Exactly. [00:15:05] That’s the basics.

Prav Solanki: It’s like switching the lights on. Right.

Kiran Malviya: But that’s that [00:15:10] has been with us. I mean, I’m an Asian parent as well, and I think that is something that all [00:15:15] of us who are from Asian origin carry with us, uh, that you have to [00:15:20] you have to be good at math. You have to be good at science. That’s a no. That’s [00:15:25] a no compromise, uh, you know, situation, uh, and, uh, everything beyond that [00:15:30] is fine. You can do whatever else.

Prav Solanki: But you were being [00:15:35] prepared to run a home, essentially. And then what you said after that was interesting, which was my [00:15:40] father married me off young, okay. Like it [00:15:45] was his choice to marry you off. Absolutely right. Like [00:15:50] you were his property. And it was up to him to say [00:15:55] you will now marry this person or whatever and marry you off. Right. I do want to dig a little bit into your [00:16:00] education.

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely, absolutely.

Prav Solanki: I want to understand what what that means. In today’s [00:16:05] world, when someone marries you, was your husband chosen for you? Were you introduced [00:16:10] to him? What was what? What was being married off? I want to figure out [00:16:15] what. What that what that was like back in the day.

Kiran Malviya: Well, um, there [00:16:20] are few steps to it, right? Number one, you’re not allowed to fall in love. Why? Because [00:16:25] you have to study and you have to, you know, make your academics ready. [00:16:30] And if you if you fall in love, uh, in college, you’re basically going to be distracted. [00:16:35] Yeah. Uh, plus, if you fall in love with somebody outside your religion, outside your, you know, [00:16:40] the scope, uh, then you’re also going to ruin it. Ruin the family name. So. So those [00:16:45] were kind of the boundary conditions, uh, of falling in love. Number one. Right. [00:16:50] Number two, about love. A very basic thing that was taught to me. And it I completely [00:16:55] believed and lived by was that if you live with anybody for six [00:17:00] months, 24 hours, you’ll fall in love. It’s easy. So it’s, uh. Everything else is overrated. [00:17:05] So? So no point in wasting time on something as trivial as that. [00:17:10] Right. Yeah. Now comes the point of getting married, right? Getting married? What is [00:17:15] the right time? Who is the right guy? Uh, you know what is the right family in [00:17:20] the arranged marriage system in India? You generally don’t give the girl a lot of choice. [00:17:25] Joyce, uh, you typically, uh, you know, meet after your parents have [00:17:30] decided who you want to be, uh, you know, married to.

Kiran Malviya: And [00:17:35] then you kind of give a cursory yes or no. Which is which is really doesn’t [00:17:40] which doesn’t really matter at all. It’s it’s kind of decided. Decided. And then, uh, [00:17:45] yeah. You don’t really have the choice to say no most of the time. And in my [00:17:50] case, uh, well, my, my husband, uh, he was my teacher at [00:17:55] university, uh, and he knew my logic of not falling [00:18:00] in love. And he also knew that I’m gonna marry whoever my dad says. Yeah. Uh, so he [00:18:05] preferred to kind of let me know that I can tell my dad that this guy is interested, and [00:18:10] then everything else can then be arranged. And I was still in my final year. And [00:18:15] then my dad convinced me that this was the right time. The guy was the right one, the family was [00:18:20] the right one, and so on. And which is mostly get convinced or get convinced. Kind of [00:18:25] a conversation. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I got engaged, uh, when I was still [00:18:30] in my final year, which is, uh, when I was 21. I got married when I was 22, [00:18:35] and I had my daughter when I was 23.

Prav Solanki: Amazing, amazing. So [00:18:40] it sounds like you kind of reversed engineered this situation, right? [00:18:45] But but still went along. You were in lockdown boundaries, those guardrails that were [00:18:50] given to you and you respected those, but you kind of reverse engineered it.

Kiran Malviya: Oh, [00:18:55] absolutely. And I think Prav back then it was way easier. It didn’t feel [00:19:00] like, oh, I mean, I had not seen any other side of the world. Uh, [00:19:05] so it it felt super easy. It felt to be the right thing to do. It felt [00:19:10] like the right choice. Right? So I don’t think I have any regrets. But once you grow up [00:19:15] and you see the other side, you see other people, you see love. Uh, you can also, you know, [00:19:20] uh, code people and you can have some trial runs before going for the final [00:19:25] one is then you realise, oh, so I didn’t, I did not get that chance.

Prav Solanki: Yeah, yeah yeah. [00:19:30]

Kiran Malviya: But no. But all said and then I, you know, I fell in love with my husband [00:19:35] after I got my child. So after we got our daughter is when we [00:19:40] started to get really, really attached morally, uh, you know, um, [00:19:45] so yeah, uh, and it’s beautiful because.

Prav Solanki: And relationships [00:19:50] are a funny thing, right? When I, when I spoke to my father about arranged marriages, um, [00:19:55] and and just out of curiosity. Right. I was asking him questions. And he always used to [00:20:00] say to me, this, that. Look, you know, people have a checklist for their [00:20:05] sons, for their daughters. And and if those checklists match, um, then [00:20:10] the parents agreed, right. Your daughter will marry my son or whatever, and and [00:20:15] whatnot. But but usually you’re aligned in terms of ambition, culture, Earth status, [00:20:20] whatever you want to do. Whatever’s on your checklist. Right. And. And I used [00:20:25] to say, well, what about falling in love? And he said, what about it? He [00:20:30] said, you get married and then you fall in love with that person. You don’t fall [00:20:35] in love with the person you’re going to marry. Right. And that whole thing is so foreign. [00:20:40] Right. And but it works, right? It works. That’s [00:20:45] the long and short of it. Right. And.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah. But, you know, if I were [00:20:50] to just diverge for a second. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe we we include this or not include [00:20:55] this. Doesn’t matter. But I do believe that, you know, love and [00:21:00] marriage are two different concepts. Right. Yeah. For [00:21:05] a marriage to work. It’s a 50. It’s a gamble that you make in life. [00:21:10] You have equal number of love marriages that have failed as an arranged marriage.

Prav Solanki: Completely. [00:21:15]

Kiran Malviya: Right. But love is a different story. Love can happen in different ways. [00:21:20] You can fall in love with somebody at school. You can fall in love with somebody at college. [00:21:25] You can fall in love with somebody you’re married to, and you can fall in love with somebody at work. It’s [00:21:30] really nothing to do with being married or not being married to that [00:21:35] person, right? So for me, this particular concept of love being essential [00:21:40] for marriage didn’t make sense back then. Doesn’t make sense now.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. [00:21:45] And look, I [00:21:50] think relationships are a really interesting thing. I know, you know, during my relationship with [00:21:55] my wife and we we did fall in love, right? But let me tell you, during our [00:22:00] marriage, we’ve also fallen out of love and back in love. Right. And [00:22:05] and we’ve been on that rollercoaster that. Yes. We fell in love. We got [00:22:10] married, okay? And we’ve had our ups and downs. And there’s been times where we’ve been completely [00:22:15] out of love with each other. You know, I’m glad to say that we are very, [00:22:20] very much in love with each other right now. Right. And things may change right up and down [00:22:25] in that roller coaster. Right?

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely. And, you know, I in fact, you know, I have this crazy [00:22:30] idea which I when I tell my husband, he said, don’t tell it to anybody outside the world, I [00:22:35] say the marriage should be a five year contract up for renewal every five [00:22:40] years, you know, based based on how well you have performed, based [00:22:45] on if the terms and conditions have been met, you should be renewing it every five years. [00:22:50] I mean, just imagine if you knew that it’s going to be closed [00:22:55] every five years. You’re going to work so hard on it.

Prav Solanki: Just then, just in the last six months of the five [00:23:00] years. Right? Yeah, that’s that’s an [00:23:05] interesting concept. It’s a really interesting concept. So and talk me through, [00:23:10] um, your career. Right. So you went into dental school? [00:23:15] Okay. So as a kid, I’m assuming you were a swatty academic. You [00:23:20] got the grades to get into dental school or in India? Is it a little bit different? Right, because [00:23:25] I interviewed them. I interviewed Devon Patel, who’s a full mouth reconstruction [00:23:30] educator here in the UK, and he said to me, look, he said, [00:23:35] I’ll be honest with you. He said, I bought my way into dental school. I failed my [00:23:40] exams, but the right things were said at the right time, to the right people [00:23:45] and I kind of made myself there. He said, listen, if I was a complete idiot, I wouldn’t have got [00:23:50] in, right? There’s no amount of idiocy that will get me in there. But, but, but that was the case. [00:23:55] Talk me through. I’m not necessarily saying that that’s what happened to you, but I’m. [00:24:00]

Kiran Malviya: Just, you know, like anything else in India, everything is possible. Everything has a workaround. [00:24:05] So you will get people who have just bought their way into [00:24:10] a medical school, and you will have people who have slacked their way to the medical school as well. I think [00:24:15] I’m somewhere in the middle because for me, first of all, as I said, I did not [00:24:20] really have any interest in biology, etc. but it was more like my brother [00:24:25] was an engineer. I had to become a doctor. So, you know, that’s something [00:24:30] which is decided for you.

Prav Solanki: So it’s just like your husband, your career was decided for you, [00:24:35] right?

Kiran Malviya: Exactly. So it’s it’s more like a choice that you don’t really have. Yeah. So, [00:24:40] uh, so I did, uh, give all the examinations. I scored fine. [00:24:45] Uh, you know, and if you’re academically oriented and you don’t want doing anything else in your life, [00:24:50] you might as well study. Right. So I was a decent child, decent student, [00:24:55] and I got through, uh, the dental school. Uh, one thing that is also very interesting [00:25:00] in India is that you do not really have a dedicated examination for dental [00:25:05] admission. You give a medical admission test and the top scorers go [00:25:10] into to MBBS medical. The ones who are the next level. Going to enter the [00:25:15] guys after that go into physiotherapy and then.

Prav Solanki: It’s that right? Is that right?

Kiran Malviya: Exactly. So [00:25:20] you you typically are going into. Dentistry because you did not make into the into the MBBS. [00:25:25] Right. In my case, however, I did not want to make my dad pay for [00:25:30] my MBBS degree. So I had a choice between a private medical exam medical [00:25:35] college versus a dental college. And it all boiled down to the [00:25:40] amount of money that my dad would have to spend. So I decided to go for dental because I did not want [00:25:45] him to pay too high for the medical because of my self-made, you [00:25:50] know, approach. And I wanted to do things on my own merit and all that. Right? And [00:25:55] that’s how I ended up in dental. I was a decent student, I have to say. I [00:26:00] was the guinea pig batch when they had changed the curriculum from writing [00:26:05] long essay based answers to multiple choice answers and so on. So I [00:26:10] would say it was very easy for me. Uh, coming from a CBS education, multiple [00:26:15] choice questions is rather easy. If you have decent communication skills, you can kind [00:26:20] of crack the waiver. Uh, so I would say dentistry was quite easy [00:26:25] for me. I didn’t have my heart and soul into it, but passing dentistry wasn’t rocket [00:26:30] science. So yeah, I did pass dentistry decent enough. Uh, [00:26:35] I did.

Prav Solanki: And at what point you had your child, uh, at what, [00:26:40] age? 20?

Kiran Malviya: I was 23.

Prav Solanki: Yeah, you was 23. Just [00:26:45] just finished dentistry at that point. Finished and just finished dental school at that point.

Kiran Malviya: I was [00:26:50] married immediately after I finished dental school. So in India, dental school is five years, including [00:26:55] the internship. Yeah. So immediately after those first five years, I was married, and within [00:27:00] the first year of my marriage, I had my daughter. Wow. So. Yeah. [00:27:05]

Prav Solanki: Well. So. And then what happened after that? Because in a way, you’ve got your own dental [00:27:10] clinics, right? Were you destined for business or to run your own business, or did [00:27:15] you do your work somewhere else after that?

Kiran Malviya: No. Well, um, so I was I [00:27:20] was married into a into a joint Gujarati family, um, where I was basically [00:27:25] living in a house with, uh, eight other people, uh, and, uh, [00:27:30] you know, typically when you are a daughter in law, in a family, your life is all about cooking [00:27:35] and taking care and so on. And, uh, unfortunately, um, none [00:27:40] of the women in the family were allowed to work. So I basically [00:27:45] landed into, uh, this house. Uh, and I wasn’t really allowed to work. [00:27:50] So, you know, four months into the marriage, I was like, what’s going on? I [00:27:55] mean, I’m a doctor. I, I need to I need to be useful. I need to work. I can’t [00:28:00] just be cooking. Four times a day. Yeah, that’s that’s not what I can.

Prav Solanki: And you were a mother model at this point. [00:28:05] I’m just trying to I’m just trying to paint a picture of.

Kiran Malviya: What was going on. Immediately after marriage the first year, I realised [00:28:10] that I cannot work. So the first four months when I wasn’t allowed [00:28:15] and then I started the fight and rebel and, you know, started to make a case for, uh, [00:28:20] for being able to.

Prav Solanki: Kieran, how does this manifest itself? You move into a house with eight people [00:28:25] and and you’ve got this career ahead of you, you’ve got your dental [00:28:30] degree, which you breezed through, and you think to yourself, right, I want to go and put these skills [00:28:35] into into practice. And someone tells you what is was it an unwritten [00:28:40] rule? Or as you entered the house, it was like, because everyone, every other woman in this household [00:28:45] is not working, it would just be frowned upon. What was it stated [00:28:50] to you?

Kiran Malviya: What was? It’s more, um, so how should I say it’s. Well, when I got [00:28:55] married, when the entire process was going on, etc., there was no question asked [00:29:00] of whether I’ll be allowed to work or not allowed to work. My parents assumed that it’s a given [00:29:05] that if the girl is a doctor, she’ll probably have her own practice. She’s marrying to a dentist. [00:29:10] So they have their own practices and they will basically practice together. [00:29:15] It’s a given, right? But when I land into this house, I realise that. Well, [00:29:20] that’s not okay. Uh, you know, women don’t work, so you need. Because [00:29:25] other women don’t work. You should also not go and work because otherwise it will cause, you [00:29:30] know, rift in other women and so on and so forth. So for months, I basically sit and [00:29:35] think, how do I get my way out of this? You know, how do I how do I convince [00:29:40] or get convinced? So that’s also my life motto, been either convince somebody [00:29:45] or just get convinced. But don’t just sit and do nothing. Right. So [00:29:50] I think I started to make a case for part time work. So [00:29:55] the first job that I got was like a two hour at a charitable trust hospital, [00:30:00] as a as a general dentist. And that’s how I started to work. I was [00:30:05] pregnant back then. Um, um, so also it was easy, uh, because then [00:30:10] I anyway worked full time. And before that I started to just go [00:30:15] and assist my husband in his practice, and that was okay as well. [00:30:20] That okay, she’s just going with her husband, she’ll come back home, blah, blah, all of that.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, it was okay. And [00:30:25] then eventually, uh, there was a time when my daughter, um, was [00:30:30] well, it was my I was full term or something. I don’t remember exact timeline [00:30:35] when I had that conversation, but I basically said that, hey, look, this is not what [00:30:40] I want my life to be. I cannot be sitting at home cooking four times, doing nothing, watching TV. [00:30:45] That’s just absolutely not the life that I really want. And I remembered also telling [00:30:50] my dad that, hey, this is something that’s not working out right. And my husband, [00:30:55] he he knew he understood the problem, but he also did not know how to fight his [00:31:00] family. Right. So he basically told me that. Why don’t we start a little at [00:31:05] a time, right? And then when my daughter was, I think one or something was [00:31:10] when I basically put my foot down and said, hey, I want my own practice. I [00:31:15] want to be, you know, if I’m if I’m a dentist, if I’m capable of it, I want to be [00:31:20] running my own practice. So when my daughter was one, uh, we basically [00:31:25] set up my own independent practice, which was different from my husband, uh, still under the same brand name. [00:31:30] And that’s how I, I started a full time working [00:31:35] journey. Uh, it was very, very interesting time because, you know, um, we were not allowed [00:31:40] to have a cook in the house, so you can have servants for pretty much everything, but [00:31:45] not a cook because, uh, you know, you only have to eat the food cooked by the [00:31:50] women of the house.

Kiran Malviya: So, you know, you you basically are cooking, uh, four [00:31:55] times a day. You’re managing your practice. You’re managing your newborn, [00:32:00] and, uh. Yeah. So it’s it’s pretty, um, you’re kind of taking care of the family [00:32:05] and the elders and everything. So it’s a it’s a different lifestyle. I won’t say [00:32:10] it’s bad or good, but I have to say it’s a different kind of lifestyle that you [00:32:15] that you get used to, you know, and I, I was fine with [00:32:20] it. I mean, there was one thing that I also believed was bloom, where your planted. I think my sole [00:32:25] aim in life was to be a good mother, to be a good wife, to be a good daughter in [00:32:30] law, to be good to my patients and just be good at whatever I have been [00:32:35] presented with. Right. So it never came to my mind to to fight for something or [00:32:40] to conflict or to go against anything. Right. And I believe that is also something [00:32:45] that is been a significant part of my personality. I have [00:32:50] obtained whatever I wanted to, not by fighting, by permissions, [00:32:55] by approvals, by making people agree to it. It’s been quite for me. [00:33:00] It’s been quite natural when I think back, based on what we had spoken of the other day, [00:33:05] it feels like a very, you know, arduous journey or or a tedious way of [00:33:10] life, etc. but it doesn’t really feel that way for me.

Prav Solanki: But, you know, [00:33:15] you came into this house, there’s this eight people in there. I’m assuming there’s a there’s a head [00:33:20] of the home or whatever, right. Who calls the shots? And then you said, you know, [00:33:25] you you voiced yourself to your husband. And he said, let’s just do this a little [00:33:30] bit at a time. So it felt like for me, that conversation, he was on your side and you were working [00:33:35] on a strategy together? Yeah. Um, and perhaps correct me if I’m wrong. [00:33:40] Maybe he was a little bit scared of offending the wrong people. Um, or [00:33:45] or sending the wrong message to the wrong to to the people. Because, um, you know, maybe maybe [00:33:50] his parents were felt that he should do as he’s told. Um, [00:33:55] and as as his wife would do. And even if they he threatened to leave the home [00:34:00] with his wife, that would be a disaster, right? An absolute [00:34:05] travesty of of, you know, whatever. You know, this this is betrayed his parents [00:34:10] or whatever. Like what?

Kiran Malviya: You know, a very interesting thing about Indian [00:34:15] joint families that I have come to realise. And I also try to tell some [00:34:20] of the other girls, uh, in India, who are still going through [00:34:25] this kind of, uh, uh, system. You know, I believe that when you are married [00:34:30] into a family, right? You really need to embrace the family as your own. You first [00:34:35] really need to be part of them. You know, just consider them to be [00:34:40] your family for the rest of your life. Yeah, and exactly like you would probably tell [00:34:45] your parents about what you want to do. Slowly, slowly and steadily [00:34:50] and see the moods and, you know, make one step at a time is exactly the way [00:34:55] that you kind of navigate your way into getting what you really want. And I think for [00:35:00] me, that’s exactly why it worked out. So I did not, from [00:35:05] day one, say, hey, I won’t do this or I won’t do that, or, you.

Prav Solanki: Know.

Kiran Malviya: This is all you know, you [00:35:10] guys don’t know how to live or whatever, right? It really had to be subtle, and it really had to be [00:35:15] slowly, steadily change one thing at a time, etc. for example, they were they were very religious, [00:35:20] and I’m not at all religious. Right? But then I can’t really go in [00:35:25] and make fun of what they have.

Prav Solanki: Respect.

Kiran Malviya: Right. Exactly right. [00:35:30] So you respect it, and you suddenly tell them that, hey, this is great, but this is [00:35:35] not something that sits with me. But I won’t come in your way and stuff like that, right? And of course, there’s [00:35:40] just one person who you need on your side. That’s your husband. And if that’s there, [00:35:45] then everything else kind of is a piece of cake, I have to say. But but yeah, you [00:35:50] have to pick your pick your battles, the right ones at the right time and navigate through them. [00:35:55] And that’s the way to kind of get what you want in a joint family.

Prav Solanki: That’s great. And [00:36:00] so what happened next? What did you did you then move out after a period of time or. [00:36:05]

Kiran Malviya: Not really. I think once I started practising dentistry, uh, we were doing [00:36:10] pretty well. I think between me and my husband, um, there was one, uh, financial, [00:36:15] how should I say roller coaster that we had to cross because, uh, his [00:36:20] dad was in a in a in a business in a cloth clothes business, and, [00:36:25] uh, his shop had basically burned down, so he had undergone a [00:36:30] massive amount of losses because of that. And, uh, we had to kind of, [00:36:35] uh, you know, take over that debt that he had because of all these [00:36:40] financial losses. And back then, insurance and all was never existing. Right? So if you if you [00:36:45] lose, uh, stuff in your business, it’s basically your loss. Somebody has to cover up, right? So [00:36:50] we got those. And then, uh, that was all the more reason for us working hard. [00:36:55] A blessing in disguise. Because that also established me as a professional quite [00:37:00] well. Uh, and we started both of us started earning four hands. [00:37:05] Uh, you know, we we we collected money, we, uh, and then, you know, [00:37:10] we we we gave ourselves seven years to build our life again.

Kiran Malviya: We said, okay. First [00:37:15] seven years of our life, we are going to just earn on and on. Uh, because both of us really [00:37:20] wanted to study. Both of us really wanted to explore the world. Uh, we were full [00:37:25] of, you know, dreams and desires. But this thing around fulfilling our liabilities, [00:37:30] fulfilling our debt, etcetera, was, uh, was necessary back then. Uh, [00:37:35] he also had some, uh, siblings that had to be married off and so on and so forth. Right. So [00:37:40] there’s a lot of liabilities that had to be taken care of. So we said, okay, we give ourselves seven years [00:37:45] and we did it. So we earned we. We made properties, we cleared the debt. [00:37:50] And at the end of seven years, we basically were at that juncture. I [00:37:55] remember we had just moved in to the new house that we had bought and built. Actually, it had been [00:38:00] four months and we were thinking of a second child. Uh, it had [00:38:05] been the right time, in the right moment in time, where we thought, okay, maybe we [00:38:10] take the next step in our life.

Prav Solanki: You need a five year contract? Yes. [00:38:15]

Kiran Malviya: Seven years, in fact.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: And, uh, and that’s [00:38:20] when, uh, basically we said, okay, let’s let’s try different things. Let’s try to explore [00:38:25] what’s there. Uh, our clinic was running very well. So we knew for a fact that, [00:38:30] uh, if we could either expand our clinics vertically or horizontally, [00:38:35] basically, both could work. Uh, and when I say horizontally, I mean set up more chains across [00:38:40] the city and the and the state and vertically, which means that we were planning on [00:38:45] buying a building and converting it into a dental hospital. But [00:38:50] both of these needed somebody to know more about business, somebody to know more about, [00:38:55] uh, you know, marketing strategy and stuff like that. So that’s [00:39:00] when basically, uh, I was the one who was good at math and English and [00:39:05] communication and all of that. So I went for my MBA, and which was [00:39:10] also a big thing, because I went for a full time MBA at the Indian School of Business, [00:39:15] uh, leaving my seven year old daughter, uh, at home. Uh, and [00:39:20] which was very, very unconventional. So, you know, I mean, you can’t imagine [00:39:25] how much people would say, oh, you’re gonna, you know, how can you even have a life [00:39:30] outside your family after you have had a child? Right. So that’s still [00:39:35] and I believe that many, many women, even today, they feel that, okay, [00:39:40] once you’re married and once you have a child, the end. But for me, it was the story, [00:39:45] right? So I, I kept my daughter with [00:39:50] my parents, and I went for a full time MBA. Uh, in order [00:39:55] to learn, uh, strategy, marketing and entrepreneurship. And then on [00:40:00] the campus. Yeah. I met an amazing woman leader who basically [00:40:05] took a plunge and hired me on Philips. And that’s how my corporate journey began. [00:40:10] And I never looked back after that.

Prav Solanki: What was your. So when you were doing your MBA, [00:40:15] was your plan ever to go back to dentistry and expand the clinics and use this [00:40:20] knowledge to grow that business?

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely. I mean, the intention was and the reason [00:40:25] why I could, you know, leave my daughter and go, was that okay? I have to go back and [00:40:30] I have to go back to the family. I have to go back to the daughter, and I have to go back to the clinic. So, [00:40:35] yeah, that was all along the plan always to go back and do it. But I think the, [00:40:40] the the curiosity bit. Yeah. The bit where, uh, we are [00:40:45] brave enough to try things out helped us to also evaluate this offer [00:40:50] from Philips. Seriously. And I remember when, uh, when her name is Rekha Ramanathan, [00:40:55] and she still is my, uh, you know, uh, first teacher, so to say. Because when and [00:41:00] you can imagine. Right. I’m a doctor. Yeah. I have no idea what corporate guys do [00:41:05] I have. I had never worked in a corporate before. And there is this, uh, you know, [00:41:10] head of marketing of the Indian subcontinent talking to me about a role, uh, and [00:41:15] which was a commercial leadership program. Uh, and I, she asked me everything about [00:41:20] what I do, my background, etc., and I tell her about how an Indian wedding is organised [00:41:25] and how I was, you know, how do you run a joint family and how [00:41:30] do you run a dental practice? Everything, which has nothing to do with, uh, corporate [00:41:35] and complexity in a corporate world.

Kiran Malviya: Right. Then that’s the thing that for me has helped me throughout [00:41:40] my career, and I also try to do that a lot. Is the difference between potential and [00:41:45] performance, right? When you’re hiring young talent, uh, there will not be any performance [00:41:50] because there’s just too young to have anything at all, right? But if you see the potential [00:41:55] and you give them a chance, they can do wonders. And for me, I’m very, very [00:42:00] grateful to Reiko. Uh, because, uh, she was the one who took a chance on me. I remember [00:42:05] there were supposed to be 2 or 3 rounds in that interview, and I didn’t have any, so [00:42:10] I only spoke to Rica. And Rica basically said, this is your chance. You either take it or leave [00:42:15] it. I said, okay, I at least need to take permission from my husband. Can [00:42:20] I at least give him a call and ask him? And [00:42:25] uh. And yeah, my husband was busy in a patient, so [00:42:30] I had to, you know, just take a call. And. And that’s how it began.

Prav Solanki: So how did you meet [00:42:35] Reiko? What was it? Some kind of like careers. Fair or chance meeting? [00:42:40]

Kiran Malviya: No. In India, in Indian, uh, B-schools. Uh, [00:42:45] you have, uh, campus interviews. Okay, so the companies come [00:42:50] on the campus for recruiting. Mhm. Um, because that is one [00:42:55] of the key, let’s say, value proposition of Indian business schools that they offer a job. Their job [00:43:00] guaranteed.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: So yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. So you met her there. You [00:43:05] had that interview she took a shine to you saw the potential. And the [00:43:10] rest is history. Exactly as they say. So your husband said yes.

Kiran Malviya: Um, [00:43:15] well, he wasn’t available.

Prav Solanki: He wasn’t available to take it. All right. Okay.

Kiran Malviya: But [00:43:20] I think also for him, that was the moment after which he never had to take a, you know, give permission [00:43:25] because then it was, uh, you know, life was completely different. I believe that one year at ISB [00:43:30] changed me, changed my personality. I remember when, and in lectures [00:43:35] in ISP, you have, uh, key points. It’s called class participation [00:43:40] points, right? Wherein whatever is being taught in the class, you have [00:43:45] to give your opinion on what you think. And if you participate, you have some bonus points for [00:43:50] that.

Prav Solanki: Okay.

Kiran Malviya: I came from a background where you never express your opinions. [00:43:55] So, you know, I had no idea that you can have opinions, you can express your [00:44:00] opinions and you can gain some points for it. So, you know, it was kind of a complete [00:44:05] learning of a new life for me. And in that one year of MBA [00:44:10] and I came across a lot and a lot of things which I had never, ever seen in [00:44:15] my, you know, traditional, conventional life and that kind of, you [00:44:20] know, opened me up completely. So I think that that that broke all the [00:44:25] inhibitions, hesitations that I had, everything that I had not yet seen. And [00:44:30] yeah, that made me ready for the for the future. What was coming when [00:44:35] I joined Philips.

Prav Solanki: And just I’m just going to switch slightly on that on that period [00:44:40] when you were doing your MBA. Um, well, how far were you from home at [00:44:45] the time? How often were you seeing your husband and daughter at that time during that full step? [00:44:50] But if you were to just paint a picture of what your life was like there.

Kiran Malviya: So, um, the school [00:44:55] that I went in at School of Business, it’s in Hyderabad in India, and it has a [00:45:00] beautiful campus. And at campus you have two choices of accommodation. [00:45:05] You can either take a studio, which is generally for families, or [00:45:10] you can take like a, you know, a flat with four rooms which is generally taken by [00:45:15] bachelors. So of course I took the studio hoping that my family, whenever they want, [00:45:20] they can come and stay with me and go and so on. Right. However, the the catch [00:45:25] here is that they have compressed a two year your program into a one [00:45:30] year program. So for that one year, you are basically sleeping [00:45:35] for two hours a day at best. For the rest of the time you are studying, [00:45:40] or you’re doing a case assignment, or you’re working on a certain project, or you’re [00:45:45] working in a study group or your party, right? So so you don’t sleep. So which [00:45:50] means that for a family to come and stay there was futile. There’s there’s [00:45:55] no point in that. So we agreed that whenever my daughter [00:46:00] would miss me, too bad we would bring her. And she can then stay [00:46:05] with me for a night and a day or two and then go back because even my husband had to [00:46:10] work. Yeah, and she had school, too. So that was kind of the arrangement. So there was no like, [00:46:15] set pattern back then because she was too small. She was just seven. Yeah. So, you [00:46:20] know, you can have these the, you know, need to see mom kind of moments. Uh, [00:46:25] and then she would just come over on an average. I think in a year we would have met like 12 [00:46:30] times or so. So on.

Prav Solanki: An average.

Kiran Malviya: Month. Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. [00:46:35] And then straight into Phillips. Yeah. From there. [00:46:40] And so where was that in relation to home.

Kiran Malviya: Well that was the that was in Delhi. [00:46:45] So it yeah it it needed us to move to Delhi. Okay. And [00:46:50] now we have two practices back home in Nagpur and move to Delhi as a family. [00:46:55] It basically needed us to either close the clinics or have a long [00:47:00] distance kind of a life as we have now. But I think back [00:47:05] then since, as I told you, even my husband wanted to explore a point and [00:47:10] the clinic was running very, very well. It was one of the top 5% [00:47:15] clinics in Nagpur back then. Right? So and he’s a brilliant doctor. So we thought, uh, [00:47:20] okay, we, we outsourced the clinics to another couple who were running it for us. [00:47:25] We were still having this, you know, arrangement where we were still getting [00:47:30] a share of the revenue and so on. And then we moved to Delhi, and my then my husband enrolled [00:47:35] himself for a study program in Delhi, and that’s how I landed in [00:47:40] Philips. Although for the first two years in Phillips I was travelling heavily. [00:47:45] I went to Middle East and Turkey, stayed there for around 8 or 9 months, and then [00:47:50] the rest of the time I was in marketing. And as you can imagine, marketing is all about your weekends [00:47:55] or doing events.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: So a lot of travel, uh, and [00:48:00] Delhi was uh, was a very, very new place for us, uh, for somebody [00:48:05] who’s never lived in Delhi. It needs some getting used to.

Prav Solanki: Okay.

Kiran Malviya: Because in India, Delhi [00:48:10] is the power capital of India, and Mumbai is the business capital of India. So we come from [00:48:15] the Mumbai area where people are kind, and you talk to each other and you smile at each other. And [00:48:20] Delhi is like the snob place. So you basically nobody talks to each other. You [00:48:25] know, everybody is throwing around their power for some reason, so it needs some [00:48:30] getting used to it. But now then. So of course. But back then it needed some getting used to.

Prav Solanki: And [00:48:35] then what was the what was this whole situation at that time? You moved to Delhi. [00:48:40] You had your daughter with you at the time? Yes.

Kiran Malviya: So when we moved, we only [00:48:45] the three of us moved. So the, the, the extended family, we made them comfortable as [00:48:50] we had just built a house back home. They were they still are living in that house basically. They were well [00:48:55] settled there and we moved here. And for my support system, right. My [00:49:00] mother and my mother in law, they would take turns of coming and visiting and staying with [00:49:05] us because I was completely against keeping my daughter with a nanny, because [00:49:10] I believe that the value system that I have are because of the parents. And [00:49:15] I absolutely wanted her to have the grandparents instil the value system in her. So [00:49:20] yeah. And it turned out to be fine. She. She’s raised okay.

Prav Solanki: She’s [00:49:25] turned out all right. You’ve done a great job.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, yeah, we did a great job. I mean, how [00:49:30] parenting is really a group effort for sure.

Prav Solanki: For sure. And I’m sure she’s turned [00:49:35] out for the better. Right? I’m sure she’s independent.

Kiran Malviya: Yes, I think [00:49:40] I think she’s turned out to be a very, very mature person, very resilient. [00:49:45] Um, uh, in fact, she is my go to person when it comes to, [00:49:50] uh, you know, getting a perspective about things these days. So it’s it’s amazing. [00:49:55]

Prav Solanki: How.

Kiran Malviya: The tables have turned.

Prav Solanki: How old is your daughter now?

Kiran Malviya: She’s 20. [00:50:00] She’s turning 21in November.

Prav Solanki: What you got? You you go to [00:50:05] her now for her perspective.

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely, absolutely.

Prav Solanki: So talk [00:50:10] us through talk us through your career at Philips. So you’ve got you did that [00:50:15] first job. You were travelling all over um, Various [00:50:20] events. Getting to learn the ropes. But you ended up spending, what, at least [00:50:25] a decade at Phillips?

Kiran Malviya: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think well, [00:50:30] Phillips was if I have to summarise [00:50:35] my Phillips experience into 2 or 3 words, [00:50:40] I think I would say it’s curiosity, it’s [00:50:45] hard work and it’s just the courage to speak. [00:50:50] And why I say this is because, you know, when I got in [00:50:55] the first job that I got after the leadership stints, the rotational [00:51:00] program was sales. And back then there was [00:51:05] I was the only salesperson or saleswoman across the industry, uh, [00:51:10] in India. So across Siemens, GE and Philips, there was no other [00:51:15] sales woman. So and I was I immediately got the role of [00:51:20] strategic accounts to the CEO back then, Krishna Krishna Kumar. Uh, [00:51:25] he was my first mentor, so to say, because he was setting up a team to [00:51:30] manage key accounts, dedicated, and he picked up 2 or 3 people from [00:51:35] across India, and he groomed them personally in order to manage these large accounts. [00:51:40] And we are talking about big hospitals, Fortis, Max, Apollo’s and so [00:51:45] on. Right. And he believed personally that in order to manage these large accounts, [00:51:50] you need a slightly different profile. You don’t really need your sales guys who are [00:51:55] selling, uh, the, the magnet and the coils to go to these large [00:52:00] accounts and talk about business. They simply can’t. Yeah. So what he had decided was he [00:52:05] was setting up this key account team. He called them Eskom and he was personally grooming [00:52:10] them. And now when I say personal grooming, it literally means grooming. From what should [00:52:15] you wear? How should you behave? You know, how should you? What? What [00:52:20] should a sales look like? What should you talk to them about? How often should you talk to them about.

Kiran Malviya: So [00:52:25] basics right basics of key account management. And I’m talking about 2012 2013 [00:52:30] time when key account management as a concept was quite new in in the corporate world. Yeah. [00:52:35] So you know and I was this young person. Yes, I was [00:52:40] a dentist, but I had never worked in a corporate, never done sales in my life. And [00:52:45] it was a for sale stint and I didn’t even know the products. I didn’t know what markets [00:52:50] cath labs do. I was simple dentist. I had never, you know, complex equipment. [00:52:55] So I think early on I realised and I remember Krishnakumar telling me that, hey, [00:53:00] till you do your first sale, get out of the office. You cannot come to the office. So [00:53:05] go and figure out your first sale. And when you are in key accounts, even today, [00:53:10] everybody wants to go and work in a key account. You will have the head of sales going there. You’ll have head of [00:53:15] product going there. You’ll have the CEO going there. Up-market everybody wants to go to the key accounts [00:53:20] and talk to customers. So managing that customer relationship while there is a, [00:53:25] you know, plethora of leadership, wanting to go and engage with that account is very, very difficult, [00:53:30] especially if you are new, you, you know, you have no background, etc.. Why will the customer [00:53:35] take you seriously at all? Right. So I think early on I realised that if [00:53:40] I want to learn commercial sales, I need to figure out what [00:53:45] is it that I bring to the table.

Kiran Malviya: Right. And I also figured that I [00:53:50] will never be able to understand the market in such short time completely. I will never [00:53:55] be able to learn everything about the technology completely. Neither am I a radiologist nor [00:54:00] am I an engineer. Right? So I will never be able to crack that one. What I can [00:54:05] basically do when there was a gap back then, was that financing solutions was [00:54:10] not something very well understood by the sales guys. So I thought, okay, this is the [00:54:15] sweet spot and this is if I crack this one. This is probably something that can be my entry [00:54:20] point. And that’s exactly what I did. I went to the finance team at Philips. I told them, teach me. [00:54:25] I want to learn everything about, you know, financing, ballooning, [00:54:30] leasing, etc., etc. and then they they’re very kind to teach me. And that [00:54:35] became my vehicle to succeed within Philips. And I think right from the sales role, uh, [00:54:40] to the sales, uh, you know, business development role to the X-rays [00:54:45] and the digital pathology, that one thing of financing, structuring financial [00:54:50] solutions, outsourcing stuff, you know, modelling, all of that became like [00:54:55] my, my thing. And then that kind of helped me succeed. I think there was the [00:55:00] other thing that Philips, which I really, really appreciate, and I try to bring [00:55:05] that to Stroman too, is are giving young talent [00:55:10] an opportunity to work on strategic projects outside their domain.

Kiran Malviya: And [00:55:15] Phillips did that very well. So they every year they used to have like these 2 or 3 strategic [00:55:20] projects where they picked up people from different functions, different business units, and they [00:55:25] made them work on a completely different strategic project. And there you can, [00:55:30] you know, not only force your mind to do some market research, you are forced to [00:55:35] work and talk to other people. You’re forced to stretch beyond your day [00:55:40] job in order to deliver something good. And it gave visibility to be able to present [00:55:45] to the top management and probably shine your way out. Right. So that I think I did a [00:55:50] lot of those. So every year, pretty much one project I was always engaged in and [00:55:55] I was this hungry, want to be very young, you know, employee, [00:56:00] uh, wanted to prove, uh, I think there was a little bit of an imposter [00:56:05] syndrome there. Overcome that, you compensate, you try to do [00:56:10] a lot more. Uh, and that’s probably why, uh, within Phillips, I [00:56:15] had such a massive, you know, range of exposure [00:56:20] that I could, uh, within one company. Because typically, for the amount of work that I have [00:56:25] done, you need to go to 2 or 3 different companies to be able to get that range of [00:56:30] exposure. Right. Yeah. But then in Philips, uh, I was lucky enough to be at the right time [00:56:35] and the right moment with the right people in order to be able to, you know, participate in [00:56:40] a lot more things.

Prav Solanki: But you create your own look, right? I mean, when I speak to [00:56:45] people about you, they say you’re an amazing leader, right? And you inspire people. And [00:56:50] as Guy Bellamy said a couple of occasions I mentioned your name. He will say she [00:56:55] is a force, right? That is it. She is a force, right?

Kiran Malviya: I don’t know if it’s a positive [00:57:00] thing or not.

Prav Solanki: It’s a it’s a very positive. It’s a very, very positive thing. Right. Because [00:57:05] it’s not how you say it. It’s not what you say. It’s how you say it. Right? And, um, so [00:57:10] you’ve you’ve become known or you’ve, you’ve, you’ve your career has [00:57:15] shifted from this person who got involved in marketing and events to [00:57:20] sales, figuring out all the bits and pieces, and then you naturally levitated [00:57:25] into sort of leadership positions. Right. How did that happen? At what point [00:57:30] during your career in Phillips, did you know that you were going to be a [00:57:35] leader and that you were good with people? And what does leadership actually [00:57:40] mean to you? What what would you say are the key elements to being a [00:57:45] good leader?

Kiran Malviya: Well, honestly, I still don’t consider myself to be a leader. [00:57:50] Leader. Yeah, I still feel that there’s a lot of work to be done for somebody to think [00:57:55] that you are just a leader, right? You’re never just a leader. Yeah, you’re really a [00:58:00] hands on employee. When you’re working in a company, whether it’s your own or it’s somebody [00:58:05] else’s. I think for me there were 2 or 3 turning points which pushed [00:58:10] me into becoming so pushy for, of course, so to say, when [00:58:15] I was, when I when I was asked to lead the sales operations function [00:58:20] for Philips India. That was when they had just undergone an audit, [00:58:25] and they were completely red in the sales process and 100% [00:58:30] manual, and they wanted somebody with a sales background and [00:58:35] a bit of a structured approach to set that entire function up for them. So [00:58:40] for me, that was a step back, because when they asked me to do [00:58:45] it, I felt as if I’m being asked to go out from the commercial function because, [00:58:50] you know, when you’re doing commercial, a back end function is considered to be a step back or a [00:58:55] demotion. So for me, it was in fact a big, you [00:59:00] know, blow to my, you know, a fast moving career, [00:59:05] so to say.

Kiran Malviya: But then I still took it. Well, I didn’t have a choice, but [00:59:10] I still took it as an 18 month assignment, hoping that in 18 months I’ll figure [00:59:15] my way out of this. So, uh, but but that those 18 months was [00:59:20] the most fulfilling part of my career because of a couple of reasons. Right? Because [00:59:25] that gave me an insight into how systems work. So I was able to roll [00:59:30] out Salesforce in Philips India, bringing an entire cpq, [00:59:35] you know, methodology and process, wrote down the policies for how a distributor [00:59:40] management should look like, what in the entire business transformation, [00:59:45] uh, you know, daily management boards and the agile methodology and all of that. [00:59:50] So so you imagine that all those back end stuff, which we consider as commercial sales [00:59:55] guys to be somebody in the office to do it, is so powerful Because [01:00:00] that’s something that makes companies capable to scale, right. [01:00:05] And that backbone that is required to make a company [01:00:10] successful is something that I could learn in those 18 months. And [01:00:15] the kind of people that I had on my team back then were people who are just punching orders day in [01:00:20] and day out. You can’t really expect them to create a strategy or think through and, you know, [01:00:25] give you a PowerPoint or whatever, right? So working with those guys, training the sales [01:00:30] guys on all these new change management, the processes, tools, etc., I think [01:00:35] was my turning point that pushed me towards so-called leadership.

Kiran Malviya: And the reason I [01:00:40] say that is because on an average, I believe around [01:00:45] 80 to 90% or more sales guys on the field have no idea [01:00:50] how systems work, what policies are. What does the you know, what does a [01:00:55] SAP system look like? What do you really need to do in order to, you know, [01:01:00] make sure that you are compliant as an organisation. Right. And to be able to have that [01:01:05] knowledge was my age. So when I finally entered the global arena [01:01:10] with the digital x ray business, that was something that kind of helped me [01:01:15] push my way into becoming responsible for the entire globe, for [01:01:20] digital x rays at some point in time. So I started with just one market because [01:01:25] they believed I only had experience in India. So yeah, you managed Japan for for now. Then [01:01:30] they added China to it, then they added Russia to it. And eventually, yeah, I ended up managing [01:01:35] the globe for that.

Prav Solanki: Amazing, amazing. And what would you say? I [01:01:40] know you also say they’re saying, well, you know, I [01:01:45] don’t consider myself a leader or whatever, but, but but you’ve you’ve held positions in leadership. [01:01:50] Right. And what do you think are the are the key skills or or [01:01:55] core Qualities of a good leader, right? Because. Because a good leader [01:02:00] will, I guess, inspire their team members, but also [01:02:05] get the best out of them and the most out of them. And you’ve already alluded to the fact [01:02:10] that, well, if you challenge them and allow them to do something off project or whatever, [01:02:15] right. But, but but what what is it about you that, that that you think makes you a [01:02:20] good leader or what are the qualities that have, um.

Kiran Malviya: You know, um, so [01:02:25] I, I try to learn something from [01:02:30] every person that touches my life at any point in time. Right. So I have this thing with [01:02:35] my daughter where whoever she meets or whoever I meet, we exchange notes [01:02:40] on what did we learn from this person, right. Whether it’s a good interaction or bad interaction. So [01:02:45] that kind of, uh, introspection, uh, gives me the ability to kind [01:02:50] of put into my subconscious mind what it is that I also want to hone at [01:02:55] some point in time. Right. And because of that, I believe I’ve learned a lot from the [01:03:00] leaders who have either taken a chance on me or who have pushed me, or who I have [01:03:05] looked up to throughout my life. Right. And so I still am very grateful to them and [01:03:10] I keep learning from them. Right. Mhm. So based on what I have learned from [01:03:15] people and what I have observed to be things that have proven to be successful for [01:03:20] my growth, I think that there are 2 or 3 things that I try to follow. Uh, [01:03:25] as a, as a, as a leader.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: One is to be able to create [01:03:30] a vision. I need to be able to create a vision for the team and [01:03:35] for the organisation around me on what good would look like. It’s my job. It’s my [01:03:40] duty, right? I cannot expect anybody to deliver on anything [01:03:45] if I don’t tell them. What are we trying to achieve? Right. So that’s for me one first [01:03:50] thing. Right. I cannot assume that they know it.

Prav Solanki: Can I ask you a quick question before we move on to the next [01:03:55] thing, which is where does that vision come from? Does that is that vision? Download it. It does. [01:04:00] Does that make sense? Does somebody tell you somebody above you tells you this is the vision. [01:04:05] Now go deliver it to your team. Or is that vision yours within [01:04:10] boundaries and guardrails?

Kiran Malviya: I think it is. It is a [01:04:15] mix of your understanding of what a company wants [01:04:20] to achieve and your understanding of [01:04:25] what is needed in the in the current, [01:04:30] let’s say, landscape of the market to create the guardrails, so to [01:04:35] say. Right. So nobody really tells you what the vision is. You need to be able to create it. And [01:04:40] I have to say I am good at it. I’m a bit of a visual person. So it comes [01:04:45] naturally to me. I can actually visualise things a little bit better. [01:04:50] So. Yeah. So so so once you have once I have created a vision [01:04:55] on what good would look like. It’s also about communicating what good would look [01:05:00] like to the people and clarifying what exactly is required from them. The second [01:05:05] element of of, of being able to lead properly is [01:05:10] letting people try and fail and try again. [01:05:15] Right. And that, I believe, is a is for me a [01:05:20] very, very important point because on one hand I’m tougher, [01:05:25] I’m tougher on results and I’m very tough on, uh, you know, uh, standards [01:05:30] and output and so on. But at the same time, I’m ready to take chances. [01:05:35] I mean, you have seen with Chris, you’ve seen with a couple of other people in strongman as well. [01:05:40] I mean, I think we believe in trying and failing and trying again and [01:05:45] that that that attitude is not just me. It’s also in some of the other [01:05:50] leaders that we have within strongman, and that really helps a lot.

Prav Solanki: Is [01:05:55] that a strongman thing or a Phillips thing or just a you thing? You know this [01:06:00] this this. Fail forward. Fail fast. This this I hear [01:06:05] it a lot from strongman people.

Kiran Malviya: Um, same. So I, I see that more in strongman. [01:06:10] Uh, I did not really see that a lot in Phillips. I did come across that a lot in India [01:06:15] in the Phillips leadership within India when I was a young leader. But that was also because [01:06:20] that phase of company within Phillips India was fast moving, scaling up, becoming [01:06:25] from number three to number one kind of an environment. So I do believe that if if [01:06:30] that stage, if a company is going through that stage, you probably need this a lot more. [01:06:35] And strongman is exactly in that stage where we we do want to expand and grow, right. Uh, [01:06:40] so it’s it’s probably a strongman thing or it’s probably a, you [01:06:45] know, stage of growth. Company thing? Exactly. Yeah. And then the third [01:06:50] thing really is authenticity. I think that is a very, very commonly [01:06:55] used word, but also not well understood, because authenticity doesn’t really mean [01:07:00] being transparent about everything. Not really. For me, authenticity is [01:07:05] really about, uh, you know, just being human. You [01:07:10] know, I have good days, and I have bad days. There are days when I am absolutely [01:07:15] happy and excited about work. And you bring me anything on that day, and [01:07:20] I’ll probably be, uh, you know, thinking with you and being very constructive and so on. [01:07:25] And there are days when I just don’t want to talk to anybody. So. And I have nothing to [01:07:30] hide. And my if, if I’m able to be authentic, uh, to the [01:07:35] people, then I’m, you know, the the facade is not there.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. [01:07:40]

Kiran Malviya: So they, they feel that it’s okay. Even I can have days like that. It’s it’s okay. Right? [01:07:45] So for me, authenticity plays a very, very big role in in being a [01:07:50] good leader. And yeah, other than that, I think the fourth topic [01:07:55] which which guy keeps referring to is, uh.

Prav Solanki: What is that? What do you think that is? [01:08:00]

Kiran Malviya: Well, I think I don’t take no for an answer. Uh, that’s [01:08:05] that’s, uh, less to do with leadership, more to do with [01:08:10] my personality type. Uh, yeah, I have, uh, I have come too far away. Uh, [01:08:15] if I had taken no for an answer, I probably wouldn’t have done, you know, 90% of the things [01:08:20] that I could do. So, yeah, I don’t take no for an answer.

Prav Solanki: And [01:08:25] so just tell me a little bit about the cultural differences [01:08:30] between Phillips and and Stroud and I, I spoke to I caught up with Rob about this [01:08:35] a couple of weeks ago on, on on the podcast that’s probably coming out next week. And, and he [01:08:40] talked talked a little bit about about the differences in the culture. They’re both [01:08:45] very, very positive experiences from both companies. And, you know, he he felt that [01:08:50] Philips really did help shape him as a human being. But just talk to me about what [01:08:55] your view on that is, what your lens is on, on the differences in culture between Philips [01:09:00] and Stralman. And then I want to get your I want to get your perspective of [01:09:05] what culture actually means.

Kiran Malviya: So, um, maybe [01:09:10] I talk about the two company cultures as I perceived it. [01:09:15] Yeah. And then maybe we can try to draw similarities or differences. I think that would be easier [01:09:20] for me. So at Philips, first of all, it’s a Dutch [01:09:25] company. And when it’s the Dutch company, it comes with its own, uh, importance of [01:09:30] work life balance and, uh, you know, a pace with which things happen [01:09:35] and an alignment approach. Right. So [01:09:40] at Philips, the the most important point or most important trait that people [01:09:45] value is the alignment for any decision. You [01:09:50] have to align realign with the [01:09:55] people who are involved before you actually go ahead and make a decision.

Prav Solanki: Okay. [01:10:00] Makes sense.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: And this is something to be taught. This [01:10:05] is not this doesn’t come naturally to people. Right. Because I mean, for me, for example, [01:10:10] when I was a young, not too experienced employee, if [01:10:15] I have made a business case or if I have made a pitch, I would [01:10:20] assume that if I’m walking into a room and making a kick ass pitch, it should be [01:10:25] accepted. Uh, you know, that’s the that’s the place where you’re actually [01:10:30] making a decision and having a conversation and concluding it, giving a go, no go, etc.. [01:10:35] No. You know, I learned the hard way that that room [01:10:40] is only a confirmation that everybody else is already on board or [01:10:45] not on board or whatever. So before you walk into that room, you exactly know who are the [01:10:50] guys who are in your favour, and you only pitch to the guys who are not completely bought yet. [01:10:55] And and that I put this thing into culture bucket [01:11:00] because this need for realignment, this need for, you know, [01:11:05] uh, having, having, uh, well prepared meetings [01:11:10] forces people to be prepared, forces people to be detail [01:11:15] oriented. Right. And that is something which is a deep seated [01:11:20] culture within Phillips. The flip side, or the disadvantage of this is it’s very slow, [01:11:25] right? It’s painstakingly slow in order.

Kiran Malviya: This this process takes time, right. So the decision [01:11:30] making can sometimes be really, really slow. Right. And that is the flip side of it [01:11:35] right now if we come to strongman strongman. As I said earlier, we [01:11:40] are a very ambitious, aggressive warrior. Kind of a company, right? So [01:11:45] we make decisions fast, we fail fast, we improve ourselves and we move on. [01:11:50] Right? If you have a bright idea, pitch it to the right people. You will be at least given [01:11:55] a permission to do a pilot. And if the pilot works, you can take it to the next step. Right. [01:12:00] So this particular culture of trying, failing, moving [01:12:05] on, I think is very, very useful when it comes to the speed with which we do things. Now, [01:12:10] the flip side of this is the alignment sometimes goes for a toss, right. [01:12:15] So you might see that in a matrix environment, not everybody is aware of everything [01:12:20] that’s happening across the organisation. So so you might you know, [01:12:25] and that can probably be covered up with our positive culture because [01:12:30] the culture of player learner, of believing in each other, of not going below the line. So [01:12:35] these these words and these methodologies that have been kind of, you know, uh, [01:12:40] put into.

Prav Solanki: Your.

Kiran Malviya: Start, pretty much infused into your system, kind of enables [01:12:45] you to not go below the line very easily.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: So, yeah, both [01:12:50] have flips and uh, uh, good and bads of it.

Prav Solanki: Pros and cons. Um, [01:12:55] so what does this play in live in? This is what I hear a lot. I see on social [01:13:00] media a lot is this player learner culture? Is this about failing? [01:13:05] Is this about just sort of, um, feeding from your peers and [01:13:10] your mentors and working together? This is about taking chances. What is this whole [01:13:15] player learner culture about? How would you how would you articulate that to somebody who knows nothing [01:13:20] about drama?

Kiran Malviya: I think it’s, uh. Well, it’s a it’s a it’s a well-established [01:13:25] methodology in the organisational behaviour domains. It [01:13:30] basically says that the opposite of player learner, which is basically lower. [01:13:35] So if you are if if you hear something or you come across something, you [01:13:40] have two options. Either you say, yeah, I know everything about this. So you behave in [01:13:45] that way wherein you are placing yourself superior to somebody because you know everything about [01:13:50] it and you stop actively listening versus you [01:13:55] switch your gear into becoming a player and learner where you’re [01:14:00] constantly saying, okay, even if I know stuff, I’m basically, you know, open to actively [01:14:05] listening and understanding, learning about it and then playing along with it. So it’s a [01:14:10] it’s a fundamental difference in the way that you react or you behave in [01:14:15] situations which are very easy to go. Tricky, [01:14:20] right.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. So as [01:14:25] you’ve progressed in your career, have you stepped back in [01:14:30] terms of the number of hours that you went because based on what you’ve just spoken about, like [01:14:35] getting two hours sleep at night during your studies, right? And then working [01:14:40] across all these different areas within Philips to work your way up. Right. [01:14:45] You don’t do that on an eight hour shift. I’m pretty confident about that. Right. [01:14:50] And even even at the Stralman DSO event where [01:14:55] I saw you, and even at the event in Barcelona, where [01:15:00] we knew Kieran was in the building, but nobody knew where she was because she [01:15:05] was working and then made an appearance to say hello and whatnot. [01:15:10] Right. And, and cropped up at the times when she was needed. Yeah. [01:15:15] How hard are you working right now? And what’s that look like throughout [01:15:20] your career? What sort of hours are you putting in?

Kiran Malviya: Um, I don’t count, honestly. [01:15:25]

Prav Solanki: I mean, I know you, I know, I know you don’t, right? And nobody counts, right?

Kiran Malviya: No, nothing. [01:15:30]

Prav Solanki: Paint a picture.

Kiran Malviya: Um, that’s [01:15:35] a tough one, because, uh. Well, I think I love what I [01:15:40] do. Uh, that makes it way more easy for me to not look at it as [01:15:45] work. Work? Yeah. Um, however, I do value downtime. [01:15:50] And I do respect the fact that family needs you, and your body needs you [01:15:55] and your friends need you, etc.. So I’m. I’m very religious [01:16:00] about taking my weekends. I do not work on weekends at all.

Prav Solanki: Brilliant.

Kiran Malviya: But [01:16:05] the Monday to Friday when I am, uh, on on working, it’s it’s in all [01:16:10] mode pretty much all the time. Uh, I do recognise, and my team [01:16:15] knows that very well. Initially when I just took over this role and they would [01:16:20] receive emails from me at odd hours and, uh, you know, yeah, they [01:16:25] would be confused on What’s going on? When does she escape? And [01:16:30] am I supposed to respond? And so on. But thankfully we we agreed on a way of working [01:16:35] with a new leader, a simulation exercise which basically enables you to also understand, [01:16:40] uh, how what the leadership expectations are and what your expectations [01:16:45] are and so on. So I think my team is quite well comfortable with my modus operandi [01:16:50] now. But I do see some people getting a little, uh, you know, uh, curious [01:16:55] about how does this go on. But but it’s it’s true for pretty much all, [01:17:00] uh, leaders that at least I have come across, uh, where, you know, you just [01:17:05] become so passionate about what you’re doing that it doesn’t feel like work anymore, you [01:17:10] know? So you. And especially in my job. Right. I meet so many [01:17:15] interesting people. I mean, I wouldn’t have met you if I wouldn’t be working. If I would [01:17:20] have been, uh, you know.

Prav Solanki: We wouldn’t have crossed paths, right? That’s for sure. Exactly. Um, but [01:17:25] but during all of this. Right. Obviously, there’s been a lot of positivity [01:17:30] during your career. Um, and you’re very positive about [01:17:35] the fact that you love what you do. It’s, you know, it’s inspiring. You get to inspire other [01:17:40] people and you get to do great things. Tell me about some of the darkest [01:17:45] moments during your career. Right. There must have been some moments where [01:17:50] maybe you hit rock bottom. It was really hard, and maybe it was a a [01:17:55] work life or a personal thing. Or perhaps there was [01:18:00] a project that really got you down. Was there have you had some really dark moments [01:18:05] and what were they during during your career? It can’t have all been sunshine and rainbows.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, [01:18:10] but I honestly have. I [01:18:15] can’t really think of a dark moment, so to say. Of [01:18:20] course there are. Of course there are moments where you know [01:18:25] you either do not get the result that you expected or [01:18:30] you do not. Uh, you know, you’re not able to. You’re [01:18:35] not able to crack a certain personal problem or [01:18:40] you’re not able to, you know, run fast enough as you had expected, [01:18:45] etc.. But I haven’t really come across okay. So from a career perspective, [01:18:50] I don’t think I have yet come to a rock bottom or a [01:18:55] dark place ever. I have never. I have never had to look for [01:19:00] a job. I have never had to, you know, uh, take a step back in my [01:19:05] career and so on. Right. So that has thankfully, yet not come. Yeah. [01:19:10] But when it comes to the work that I do, the projects that I do, the people that I interact [01:19:15] with, I have had some tough moments. I have had an employee just not ready [01:19:20] to trust me. And I had no idea. How do I, you know.

Prav Solanki: Deal with.

Kiran Malviya: That? [01:19:25] Exactly how do I deal with that? How do I. And that was, for me, a very, [01:19:30] very difficult leadership challenge, so to say, because, uh, you know, when you are a woman [01:19:35] leader, you dance between super strong and [01:19:40] super weak moments. You know, there’s hardly anything in the [01:19:45] middle in, in women leadership, unfortunately, which I believe should not be [01:19:50] the case and I hope will not be the case going forward for for the upcoming, uh, [01:19:55] women.

Prav Solanki: Do you think it’s harder to be a woman leader?

Kiran Malviya: I think [01:20:00] it is not super easy. Uh, [01:20:05] but it’s not. It’s not too hard either. It’s not [01:20:10] super easy. But you have to. And why I say that is you. You have to accept [01:20:15] that you have these styles which are different from a traditional male leadership [01:20:20] style. Right. Yeah. You. If if you accept that, then it’s fine. [01:20:25] I mean, we are we are as women leaders, uh, sometimes very, [01:20:30] very strong. Strong, opinionated, uh, expecting, uh, you [01:20:35] know, high standards and so on a little bit too much more than male leaders. And [01:20:40] we also have our limitations around, you know, intolerance [01:20:45] for certain behaviours and so on. So I think as long as we [01:20:50] make peace with that and the people around us have made peace with that, uh, it’s all good.

Prav Solanki: And [01:20:55] the people around you making peace with that. Have you, have you ever had a situation where, as a female [01:21:00] leader by a male, that you felt that there’s [01:21:05] been a prejudice or a challenge from your perspective?

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, [01:21:10] I mean, I was I was working in India, right? And. Yeah, [01:21:15] uh, I told you I was the only Only female. Female. The entire industry? [01:21:20] Yeah. And a part of why I was given that back end role was [01:21:25] also because I was a woman. And, you know, women are better suited in office roles [01:21:30] and so on. Right. I think that happens all the time. I think there is this prejudice [01:21:35] around. Females cannot do commercial leadership roles that exist [01:21:40] in males. Uh, male leaders mindset. Right. You can’t really fight [01:21:45] it too much because it’s a fact. There aren’t many women in the commercial [01:21:50] leadership roles across industries. But at the same time, [01:21:55] you can’t really be too touchy picky about, you know, somebody making a [01:22:00] comment like that or somebody, you know, living on that prejudice, etc.. It does hurt. [01:22:05] It does pinch. I mean, you spent two days mulling over it and then you basically just, [01:22:10] you know.

Prav Solanki: Crack.

Kiran Malviya: On. Exactly. So you either confront and clarify [01:22:15] or you just, you know, forget it and let it go. But that’s true with pretty much [01:22:20] all, all biases, right? I mean, as of as an Indian I’m leading [01:22:25] EMEA. Right. So it’s it’s quite a, quite a you know, [01:22:30] I don’t speak any of the European languages and, but I speak five Indian languages. [01:22:35] It doesn’t help me here. Right. But I think beyond the point as [01:22:40] I said. Right. If you are curious, if you are, if you are culturally oriented enough [01:22:45] to accept the differences, I think you you survive and [01:22:50] thrive. In fact.

Prav Solanki: What is the future of your career look like? [01:22:55] And I know you’ve not. You’ve not been at strawman for a long time. Um, but but what what [01:23:00] is the future of your career look like?

Kiran Malviya: Why? I, I see myself in strong [01:23:05] and developing and growing with the company. Uh, I think I’m completely [01:23:10] convinced with the vision. I think that’s what I signed up for, uh, I also, [01:23:15] uh, completely, you know, respect the leadership that we have at Strom and the [01:23:20] especially the leadership values that are strong and, uh, you know, [01:23:25] values is is very, very different. You know, even if you [01:23:30] have done very well in the what, the how is equally important. [01:23:35] And for me, that that’s a place where I would want to be. Right. Uh, [01:23:40] plus, I mean, uh, there’s just so much fabulous work that we are doing. Dentistry [01:23:45] is just, uh, you know, at a, at a juncture where we are going to unlock [01:23:50] a lot of, uh, digital transformation, integrated ecosystem. You [01:23:55] know, taking, uh, a lot of pressure out from the clinicians and the staff using [01:24:00] AI and so on. So if there is any place to be in at this point in dentistry, [01:24:05] that’s strong. And and so I don’t see myself, uh, yeah. Working with strongman, [01:24:10] uh, and and growing with strong.

Prav Solanki: And I see a lot of what what [01:24:15] you spoke about today about the culture of strawman and the the fast decision making. [01:24:20] So I’ve been on the other end where I’ve worked with Phillips and I’ve [01:24:25] worked with Stroman and I’ve worked with all the corporates. Right. There is nobody that makes decisions [01:24:30] as fast as strawman does. And it’s and it’s ridiculous. Like [01:24:35] to the point it would take a three man dental practice longer to make the same decision as [01:24:40] it does with strawman. Right. And and I find it insane and crazy, but some of my [01:24:45] best work and some of my most exciting projects that I’ve worked on have been with [01:24:50] strawman because of that.

Kiran Malviya: That is that is so good to hear because, [01:24:55] you know, as an outsider, you have probably experienced this, uh, [01:25:00] firsthand.

Prav Solanki: It’s game changing, right? It’s absolutely game changing. And, and, [01:25:05] and the other piece is the culture piece, right? Which is whoever I speak [01:25:10] to, and I mentioned this during, um, Rob’s podcast as [01:25:15] well, is that when I ask somebody, what does strawman mean to you? [01:25:20] Yeah, family is the most common word that comes out right. [01:25:25] Um, which speaks volumes about culture. Right? Does that resonate with you straight [01:25:30] away?

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, you know what is family, [01:25:35] right? You you always say that, you know, family is where you feel [01:25:40] home.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: It doesn’t really have to be your blood relationships. [01:25:45] Yeah. But, uh, for me, I think, uh, that’s the kind of environment [01:25:50] that strongman wants to create.

Prav Solanki: Mhm.

Kiran Malviya: So yeah I think I agree. [01:25:55] We generally never say welcome to the team. We always say welcome to the family.

Prav Solanki: So yeah. [01:26:00] And what was the what was the reason for the transition from Philips to Stram. And what brought that [01:26:05] on. Were you headhunted. Were you you had no idea.

Kiran Malviya: In fact, I never [01:26:10] wanted to go back to dentistry when I was, uh, doing very well at Philips. Right? I thought, [01:26:15] okay, I have moved on from dentistry. It’s so far away. It’s like, you know, look at cardiology. [01:26:20] Look at radiology. But when I was headhunted by Sabina, she basically [01:26:25] said, just talk to the leader once. That’s it. So when I spoke to Rama, uh, [01:26:30] who was my, uh, hiring manager and my. And my, uh, leader when I joined. [01:26:35] Yeah, she showed me one slide, and that slide carried her vision [01:26:40] on where she wants to take enterprise solutions. And that’s it. I was sold on that idea. [01:26:45] I was like, I did not have a job description. I did not know what I’m going to join then do. [01:26:50] Uh, but I just. Yeah. Joined it.

Prav Solanki: Wow. And [01:26:55] looking back now, over your career, what would you advise your [01:27:00] younger self that that 23 year old looking back now, Would [01:27:05] you change anything during that career?

Kiran Malviya: Honestly? Well, [01:27:10] I won’t change anything because, you know, I have come to believe that [01:27:15] is despite all the struggles that I had in my early married life, [01:27:20] despite of the, you know, challenges that I had as a establishing [01:27:25] as a sales person within Philips. I, I am [01:27:30] what I am because of the experiences that I have had in my life. Right? So I would definitely [01:27:35] not change anything, but I would definitely ask my younger self [01:27:40] to have the courage to speak up. Always. I think that is [01:27:45] something that I learnt a little later. Mhm. Uh, I would have probably [01:27:50] uh spoke up. There is a difference between speaking up and respecting. [01:27:55] Just because you’re speaking up to people above your pay [01:28:00] grade or above your, you know, age Each grade doesn’t necessarily [01:28:05] mean that you’re disrespecting them.

Prav Solanki: It’s a difference.

Kiran Malviya: And that’s something that I would [01:28:10] say I would have probably done better.

Prav Solanki: I spoke up sooner. [01:28:15]

Kiran Malviya: Yeah.

Prav Solanki: And interestingly, the the interactions [01:28:20] and the conversations we’ve had, right. I’ve learned more in just the tiny little exchanges. Right. [01:28:25] So, um, I remember we were stood in that room. I know, I know, you know what [01:28:30] I’m going to ask you now. And I said, tell me about the tattoos.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah. [01:28:35]

Prav Solanki: Yeah. Um, and you told me a little story about what the tattoos [01:28:40] were and what they mean. And somebody once told me that every tattoo has [01:28:45] a story behind it. Yeah. And I think you’ve told us a lot of the story. [01:28:50] Right? But just just just just tell us what the tattoos are and [01:28:55] what that signifies and what that means to you.

Kiran Malviya: Well, I have two tattoos. One is [01:29:00] on my wrist, which is basically a queen of hearts, and this [01:29:05] one is, uh, uh, selected by my daughter, uh, because she believes that it [01:29:10] signifies the way that I do my things. Right. Uh, not only that, I am [01:29:15] a wife, a lover, a mother and everything, but she says that [01:29:20] the way that you do your things is is significant. Is is is what they start [01:29:25] to basically say. Because, um, I never [01:29:30] have conflict with anybody. I always have my words to get what [01:29:35] I want to do, and I have my way around it. So it’s basically even if [01:29:40] I get what I want, the other person feels that they are permitting me to do what I have to do. [01:29:45] So, you know, the skill of convincing somebody [01:29:50] in that way, she believes, is a is a unique thing. And that’s why she asked me [01:29:55] to put this one. And the other one is basically, uh, says freeboard, God. And [01:30:00] that is.

Prav Solanki: Because on your shoulder.

Kiran Malviya: Right shoulder. Yeah. And that one, [01:30:05] I think is more because of the upbringing that I had. I was [01:30:10] always I felt or I still feel that as human [01:30:15] beings we are caged either to society [01:30:20] or to family or to duties, you know, or to situations, [01:30:25] etc. but your soul is really free. And as long as you are able to manage [01:30:30] the two and you know, know that your soul is still free of everything else. I [01:30:35] think that’s what I want to carry with me. I want to remind myself that I my soul [01:30:40] is free. I’m a free bird in my mind here, irrespective of the you [01:30:45] know, what is expected of me and situations around me.

Prav Solanki: It’s been a really [01:30:50] interesting perspective that that that the free soul and [01:30:55] and also the piece that you say about the Queen of hearts where you’ve spoken about getting what you [01:31:00] want, but going about it in the most respectful way in [01:31:05] which you can write. Because I’ve spoken to. I spoke to many people in the situation [01:31:10] that you found yourself in, living in an extended family. Okay. Not [01:31:15] necessarily. Not necessarily. That being the the ideal situation [01:31:20] for you, but living with it, blooming where you’re planted. [01:31:25] Right. Accepting it, but knowing that some way, shape [01:31:30] or form, I’ll get to where I want to be. It might just take me a little bit of time, right. And just [01:31:35] accepting that in the moment where it is. Um, and, and I’ve not come [01:31:40] across anyone who hasn’t actually said, screw this. I’m in this place. I [01:31:45] don’t want to stay with you. My in-laws are. Do you see what I mean? Like like they end up in that [01:31:50] situation. And actually, do you know what? We’re not just talking India here, right? Yeah. I’ve got friends [01:31:55] who are dentists, male friends who are dentists. Who are living with their extended [01:32:00] family. Their wives are telling them they’re not happy. And they are scared [01:32:05] to tell their parents that the best thing for everyone’s relationship is to move out. [01:32:10] And those people listening to this podcast know exactly who they are. Right. Yeah. And, and [01:32:15] and actually, you’ve taken a complete U-turn on that situation and [01:32:20] you’ve said, hey, I’m going to accept this. I’m not going to respect it. I’m still going to get where I want to get. Don’t [01:32:25] you worry about that. Right. I’m confident in that piece, but I’ll just figure it out another way [01:32:30] without conflict. And I think that’s really, really cool, right? And your current [01:32:35] situation couldn’t be any further from the position you started in. Right. [01:32:40] So just tell us about that. Because I found that really, really interesting when [01:32:45] we spoke.

Kiran Malviya: Well, you mean the current personal situation? [01:32:50]

Prav Solanki: Absolutely.

Kiran Malviya: Oh, absolutely. Um, well, when I moved to Netherlands. [01:32:55] I live in Amsterdam now, and when I moved to Netherlands around six and a half [01:33:00] years back, my husband moved with me. Uh, so me and my husband and [01:33:05] my daughter, we moved for Philips, and then we had big [01:33:10] dreams and big hopes of, uh, you know, exploring the other side of the world. Uh, and [01:33:15] we thought we will be able to buy a dental practice in Netherlands and run it while [01:33:20] learning the language, etc., so that, you know, everything is sorted. [01:33:25] When we came in here, we realised that in order to even buy a dental practice, you needed to [01:33:30] learn professional level Dutch uh, in order to register in something called a big registry. [01:33:35] And that takes around 4 or 5 years. And then if you want to practice, [01:33:40] you need to also, uh, give exams in Dutch for all [01:33:45] the, uh, you know, subjects. Now, my husband, he had successful practices back [01:33:50] home in India, a well, running business, and he lands here for the wife’s career [01:33:55] and then finds himself in this dilemma where his personal life is basically [01:34:00] identity or whatever professional life is, is taking [01:34:05] a toss. He’s still learning the language, and my career has taken off so [01:34:10] well that it’s like skyrocketing and best place to be in, right? So we are in this place where, uh, [01:34:15] yeah, it’s it’s not a win win situation, right? And then, uh, in that first [01:34:20] year of being here, Covid hit and, uh, you know, uh, we realised [01:34:25] that if we wanted to be one, uh, happy, happy people for [01:34:30] a longer time, if we wanted to be a happy parents and do our duties well, [01:34:35] we first needed to be individually successful as well.

Kiran Malviya: And so we [01:34:40] took a call and he went back to India. Uh, and he lives now in Delhi. And he’s running [01:34:45] the practices. And I continue to stay here with my daughter also because we wanted her to have, [01:34:50] uh, you know. Get our education here. Uh, and we meet, uh, every [01:34:55] eight weeks. So we did a lot of, uh, you know, uh, [01:35:00] trial and error. Uh, and we decided that if it’s more than eight weeks, [01:35:05] then we get cranky. And if it’s less than eight weeks, then it’s too soon to watch [01:35:10] too much. Yeah. So we meet every eight weeks, and that’s kind of the perfect, uh, you know, [01:35:15] for us. Uh, it’s not always easy. It’s, uh, starting to get more difficult now [01:35:20] that our daughter has moved out. Um, but, yeah, so far, it has worked perfectly [01:35:25] well. And, uh, we are also, I think, one thing that has worked very [01:35:30] well in our favour, which we were very scared of, was when we moved, our daughter was [01:35:35] a teenager. Yeah. And we weren’t sure what impact will have. Will the [01:35:40] daughter father daughter relationship have. Mhm. And I think that turned out to be [01:35:45] amazing because now for her the dad is the pillar of strength to [01:35:50] go to whenever she screws up in life. And then mom, is this, you know, lovey [01:35:55] dovey person teddy bear. Or she can come to every day. Yeah, I think it ended up to be [01:36:00] super good ultimately.

Prav Solanki: And it couldn’t be further from where you started, right? [01:36:05] That’s what blew my mind. That’s what really blew my mind. Right? Because, you know, [01:36:10] some people, you know, convention tells us the relationship should be like this. You both live [01:36:15] under one roof. You see each other every day. You share a family meal together. You all [01:36:20] sit down. Do you know what I mean? You piss each other off and you have some arguments, and then you kiss and make [01:36:25] up. And that’s what relationships are about, right?

Kiran Malviya: Exactly. And that’s the thing, right? I [01:36:30] mean, we have made so many decisions in our lives which are so [01:36:35] not ordinary, not traditional. Right. We we going [01:36:40] and studying in full time MBA with a seven year old child. Uh, me taking up a job [01:36:45] in Delhi, uprooting my husband from his place of work and taking him [01:36:50] to become unemployed again, and then again uprooting him from India and bringing [01:36:55] him here, etc. there was a lot of times when his family basically [01:37:00] kept wondering, what is he doing? Why is he, you know, there is a phrase in [01:37:05] India where, you know, you basically are just following your wife around and it’s [01:37:10] not a very positive phrase. So there were times when he when the [01:37:15] poor thing, he, he, he did face all these things also from, uh, you know, very close [01:37:20] people. But but that’s the thing, right? We have been we have just stayed [01:37:25] put. We would never, you know, speak against anybody. No need to prove [01:37:30] anything to anyone with words. Right. Our actions and our success and what we have [01:37:35] been able to do speaks. And our daughter, she’s a yeah, she’s a [01:37:40] successful project for us because whenever she’s speaking and and and [01:37:45] she’s presenting and she’s a performer. She dances in the same. Okay. [01:37:50] And she composes her own music. Uh, so whenever she is basically out there, [01:37:55] you know, in a family, how your child has turned out to be [01:38:00] is kind of a testament of how you have been as a parent, whether you’ve done a good job [01:38:05] or not.

Kiran Malviya: Because whenever we did all these decisions, the first thing that came to people’s mind [01:38:10] was what will happen to the child? What kind of value system would you give to the child [01:38:15] if you are, you know, not following the societal norms and so on. When we look at [01:38:20] her and the way that she’s turned out to be so far, I think it’s a [01:38:25] testament in itself. We don’t really need to explain ourselves anymore. You know, [01:38:30] in fact, there are so many people who get inspired by this kind of thing that I’m amazed because [01:38:35] there’s so many people who face this situation today where the girl gets a job [01:38:40] somewhere, the boy gets a job somewhere else. How do we manage life? We have taken [01:38:45] a plunge in getting married. Having the child. What next? Should we compromise on our career? [01:38:50] Or should we just, you know, chase the dreams? What happens to the family? [01:38:55] You know, I believe that. I strongly believe that if you have a clear communication [01:39:00] and you have a belief that you want to make it work, it [01:39:05] will work. You can have it all, you know. There’s no reason why you cannot. [01:39:10] So yeah.

Prav Solanki: I think I think it is really inspiring. [01:39:15] Right. And, you know, I want to hear what your definition of success is first [01:39:20] before I ask the next question. But if you have to define success in your world, in [01:39:25] your world, what does it mean?

Kiran Malviya: I [01:39:30] think it starts with having a loving family. I [01:39:35] have well wishes from my family, which for me is that they’re happy. [01:39:40] And they are there proud of what we have done with our life in general. For me, that’s success. [01:39:45] Number one, I think the second definition, the second piece [01:39:50] of a successful life for me, is also the fact [01:39:55] that I have been able to make an impact wherever [01:40:00] I have been, whether it is to the company or numbers, or it is to the people [01:40:05] around me, or it is to a structure, a process, a thing. Right? [01:40:10] So making an impact in general for me is also success in whatever capacity I have been. [01:40:15] I believe that is also success to me. And three, I think this realisation, [01:40:20] the self realisation that I want to experience the joy of giving. [01:40:25] You know that also for me doesn’t really come to everyone, [01:40:30] but does come to people at some stage of their life. And and for me, if that [01:40:35] is the realisation that has come to me, I do feel that I’m successful in that sense. [01:40:40]

Prav Solanki: Mhm. See, for me when [01:40:45] I hear you talk about your daughter, you know that that’s where I see all your success. [01:40:50] Yeah. Because of the non-conventional dynamics [01:40:55] that you have navigated through. Right. Shifting around [01:41:00] with without father family distance, all the rest of it. [01:41:05] Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: But but that’s not my success.

Prav Solanki: No, no. It it’s [01:41:10] it’s it’s the it’s the product of their upbringing, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s [01:41:15] the environment she’s been nurtured in. Right. Every little juncture that you came across. You [01:41:20] asked yourself your question, right? What would happen in this situation? Right. What would the impact on her [01:41:25] and and and the other thing I think for me is when all is said and done and we’re old. [01:41:30] When we get to that stage. Right. What [01:41:35] do our parents one. What do our grandparents want? What’s the [01:41:40] one thing they want?

Kiran Malviya: Want us to be happy?

Prav Solanki: For us to be happy a more time with [01:41:45] us?

Kiran Malviya: Yeah.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. And if you get to a point. And this is where. Where I [01:41:50] see when I see successful people and I’m not talking about work. I’m not talking [01:41:55] about careers making zeros on the end of bank balances and all of that. Because when [01:42:00] all is said and done and we get to that age, I see successful [01:42:05] people as the ones who are walking around hand in hand with their daughters. [01:42:10]

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely. I think you know about my daughter. It’s [01:42:15] all her. Honestly, the amount of changes that she’s gone through, [01:42:20] both with the like. When I was doing MBA, she was with her father and my parents, and [01:42:25] then she was with me here and so on. Right with the amount of changes that she’s gone through, [01:42:30] it’s her resilience that has, you know, helped her. It’s it’s [01:42:35] it’s all horror. I think so I would not want to take away that as my, [01:42:40] uh, you.

Prav Solanki: Know, you’re not taking anything away. You’ve got a great relationship with your daughter, [01:42:45] right?

Kiran Malviya: Well, absolutely. She’s my life.

Prav Solanki: And she’s your life. You speak to her regularly.

Kiran Malviya: She’s [01:42:50] yours every single day.

Prav Solanki: And you compare notes about people you meet.

Kiran Malviya: Absolutely. [01:42:55] We have something. I mean, I have constantly been in touch with her throughout. Whether I was [01:43:00] around or not. I would write letters, hide them at places for her to find. [01:43:05] I would, uh, you we would go for dates and we would have questions that are supposed [01:43:10] to be discussed on dates. So we are very heavy on, uh, you know, conversations because [01:43:15] I, I, I like to write and, uh, I stop when [01:43:20] I’m travelling and I’m not, you know, and when that scarcity of time [01:43:25] and so on, and she’s the one who pushes me to write. So I think in general, she, [01:43:30] she in fact, recently on a mother’s day, this Mother’s Day. Actually, the gift that she [01:43:35] gave me was, uh, she took me to a cafe, and [01:43:40] that place was called, uh, offline [01:43:45] cafe or something like that. Okay. And she had prepared a list of questions [01:43:50] to ponder. And you basically go and sit there. And she said, and questions were like, [01:43:55] um, you know, very interesting. What does silence speak? You [01:44:00] know, deep questions, right? Deep philosophical questions. And she basically forced me to think about [01:44:05] those, right about those and so on. You know, so she she really knows [01:44:10] what to do with me in order to bring me [01:44:15] back on track whenever I am a little down or whatever. So, yeah, as [01:44:20] much as I have parented her, she is parenting me. I have to say it’s beautiful.

Prav Solanki: Absolutely [01:44:25] beautiful to hear that. Right. And that’s and that’s your relationship, right? I know you say it’s all her, [01:44:30] but but, but as a team, you’ve. You’ve created her, right? You’ve put her in those situations. [01:44:35] You could have gone off and done your NBA and know stayed in touch. Right? You could have just got stuck into [01:44:40] your work and not had the time. Right. And it’s that whole piece about being present and being there [01:44:45] because you’ve got 100. And one of the distractions that I feel anyway in [01:44:50] my world is a measure of success, right? Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: Because before getting married, I wanted [01:44:55] a daughter. I wanted a child. You know that that badly? I wanted to be a parent, [01:45:00] you know? So I did not have in my mind that I want to get married. But I did have [01:45:05] in my mind that I wanted to become a child. Yeah. You know, so I think for me, that is [01:45:10] one thing, which was my dream, that that I have fulfilled properly.

Prav Solanki: It’s [01:45:15] amazing. Um, Kieran imagined is your last [01:45:20] day on this planet and your daughter’s next to you, [01:45:25] and you have to leave this world giving her three pieces of [01:45:30] your wisdom. What would they be?

Kiran Malviya: I [01:45:35] think it’s, uh, it’s it’s very, very clear for [01:45:40] me. Uh, because that’s something that I also tell her, uh, all the time. Be [01:45:45] a good human being. Be. Could be good to be good, right? Don’t. There’s no point [01:45:50] in, uh, your success getting money, etc., if you have, if [01:45:55] hurt, uh, people a lot. Right. So. So be good. Be a good human [01:46:00] being in general.

Prav Solanki: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: I think the second thing that I would tell her is to live, be [01:46:05] impulsive, live. Do what you want to do. You know, it’s, uh, don’t [01:46:10] fret over a submission. Uh, you know, uh, proving [01:46:15] yourself at work or whatever. Just live. If you feel like it, just do it right. [01:46:20] And the third thing I would tell her is it’s [01:46:25] more of a saying or a or a phrase that I like to, you [01:46:30] know, go by. It’s a little bit deeper, but, uh, that’s something [01:46:35] that I really, really feel and hope that she goes by in her life [01:46:40] is to, you know. For [01:46:45] the inner circle, take that extra mile.

Prav Solanki: Um.

Kiran Malviya: You [01:46:50] know, so first, be very careful in whom you bring to your inner circle. [01:46:55] Yeah. And once they are in your inner circle, take that extra mile. So [01:47:00] that’s very, very important.

Prav Solanki: Beautiful, beautiful. [01:47:05] Karen, how would you like to be remembered? Kieran was [01:47:10] completely sentence.

Kiran Malviya: Um. [01:47:15] Full [01:47:20] of life.

Prav Solanki: Yeah. [01:47:25] I [01:47:30] like that. I’ve got a final question for you, Kieran. Fantasy [01:47:35] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive, [01:47:40] who would they be?

Kiran Malviya: You know, for me, stories [01:47:45] and conversations are very, very important, right? So for [01:47:50] me, of of a dinner party or fantasy dinner party would be successful. [01:47:55] If I have really good debates and really good conversations [01:48:00] stored during during the dinner. Right. So I would say I [01:48:05] would call, uh, my all time favourite Mahathi. Yeah. [01:48:10] Lord Shiva basically.

Prav Solanki: Mhm.

Kiran Malviya: And then I would have, uh.

Prav Solanki: You [01:48:15] know, religious though, right?

[TRANSITION]: No.

Prav Solanki: Okay.

Kiran Malviya: I’m not. [01:48:20]

Prav Solanki: But but you know, you have a good conversation, right?

Kiran Malviya: Yes. Exactly. Yeah. [01:48:25] Uh, then I would I would probably [01:48:30] want to have, um, a rebel. Somebody who [01:48:35] has always rebelled in their life, probably a woman [01:48:40] who has always rebelled but has been successful. You know, somebody like [01:48:45] a Princess Diana, for example. Mhm. Because then she comes with, uh, you [01:48:50] know, she’s she comes with class, she comes with, uh, a different kind of an [01:48:55] approach towards life. And I think thirdly, I would want a writer [01:49:00] of my choice, uh, probably somebody like, uh, you know, Amitav [01:49:05] Ghosh, uh, because I, I really, really enjoy what he writes.

[TRANSITION]: Um. [01:49:10]

Kiran Malviya: Yeah, that would probably make a good conversation. Conversation? [01:49:15]

Prav Solanki: Yeah. That’s wonderful. Kiara just leaves me to say thank you so much for being [01:49:20] so open today discussing things with such depth and openness. [01:49:25] At the beginning of this conversation, I always ask guests, are [01:49:30] there any no go topics, anything that you don’t want to discuss? Friends, [01:49:35] family, you know, personal business, areas [01:49:40] of work that you don’t want to discuss? And Karin, you just said, I’m an open book. [01:49:45] Let’s just go for it. And I just want to say thank you for that, because not everyone does [01:49:50] that. And I think it’s come through in this conversation.

Kiran Malviya: Thank you so much [01:49:55] also for, for for this opportunity, I think when I met you, you are a natural [01:50:00] conversationalist. So it’s, uh, it’s it’s very, uh, understandable that you are doing this, [01:50:05] uh, you know, this job that you’re doing.

Prav Solanki: What’s interesting there, [01:50:10] Kiran, is that the conversations that you have with people and and I actually got this from [01:50:15] Rob, and I’ve referred to Rob a couple of times. Right? It’s all about the energy. It’s [01:50:20] all about the energy. So if the energy is balanced between [01:50:25] two human beings, yes, you can be a natural conversation. Believe it or [01:50:30] not, you and I can be in a room with somebody. I can meet them. We can say three words to each of them, [01:50:35] and I can’t get anything else out. Right, because the energy isn’t there, right? [01:50:40] So I think it’s there’s a lot, a lot to do with it that the energy in the [01:50:45] room or that you create. I think that’s really.

Kiran Malviya: But it’s also genuine [01:50:50] interest. Right. I have seen you and I’ve seen you interact with people. Right. And and what [01:50:55] I’m really appreciative is you do have genuine interest in people and people’s [01:51:00] stories, right?

Prav Solanki: So I’m really curious. Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: For sure that that makes you, makes you, [01:51:05] makes it so easy to have a conversation with you and [01:51:10] just open up with you. You. That’s a skill. I think that’s not very common. I have to [01:51:15] say it’s a it’s it’s a uh, it’s, uh, I think your your, your children [01:51:20] also must be really, really lucky to have you. Then [01:51:25] they feel comfortable. They have somebody to talk to that makes so much of a difference. Right.

Prav Solanki: So [01:51:30] yeah. And I think I think the thing with kids is, is really, you know, for me [01:51:35] allowing them to be themselves and, and we, [01:51:40] we try really, really hard not to impose [01:51:45] our. Stereotypes [01:51:50] and opinions. Even even with my ten year old [01:51:55] now she’ll come out with things. She’ll tell me things that [01:52:00] she won’t tell my wife. Uh, but once a week I take her to dance class and she [01:52:05] does this hip hop R&B dance, and she loves it. Okay. Right. I was like, [01:52:10] what happened to my little girl? Right? And. And so I take her every week and all they’re watching, [01:52:15] but on the drive down the drive back, she’ll tell me things that she won’t tell [01:52:20] anyone.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Kiran Malviya: Yeah. I’m not surprised at all. Bravo.

Prav Solanki: And. [01:52:25] And you know what? Although I go back and report someone, we have this thing where [01:52:30] we can’t break that trust. Right. Because she has this [01:52:35] sort of thing that she can tell me. And you know what? I think it’s so special when a [01:52:40] child will open up to you and tell you things that perhaps, you know, [01:52:45] maybe, maybe they went up. They wouldn’t be the sort of things I’d share with my parents, that’s for sure. [01:52:50] Do you know what I mean? Um, so, you know, with with with the kids is. It’s [01:52:55] a tough balance, right? But I would rather have somebody who rebels, [01:53:00] goes against my values and what I believe, but [01:53:05] will happily tell me that they’re doing it. Do you know what I mean?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:53:10]

Prav Solanki: It’s tough. It’s tough.

Kiran Malviya: The space to explore and then feel comfortable about it. [01:53:15] I think that’s such a powerful gift that you can give to your child. Really?

Prav Solanki: Yeah. Yeah. And confidence. [01:53:20] Yeah. Kieran. Thank you.

Kiran Malviya: Thank you so much. And. Yeah. [01:53:25] I’ll see you soon.

[TRANSITION]: See you soon.

Kiran Malviya: Bye.

[VOICE]: This [01:53:30] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:53:35] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:53:40] hosts, Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:53:45] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to.

Prav Solanki: The whole thing. And just [01:53:50] a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say [01:53:55] and what our guests had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you [01:54:00] did get some value out of it, think about subscribing, and if you would share [01:54:05] this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so, so much for listening. Thanks. [01:54:10]

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