Payman Langroudi: One of the most common questions I get is how do I do more teeth whitening? The basis of that is to really [00:00:05] believe in it, and the basis of that is to fully understand it. Join us for enlightened online training on [00:00:10] enlightened online training to understand how to assess a case quickly, how to deliver [00:00:15] brilliant results every time. Next time. Whitening. Underwhelmed. Try and lighten. Now let’s get to the [00:00:20] pot.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:25] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you [00:00:30] get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:35] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav [00:00:40] Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Pat Sabi [00:00:45] Sabi onto the podcast. An Iranian, uh, friend of [00:00:50] mine who is a Viti.

Patric Saraby: Yes, I’m Viti. It’s really nice to be [00:00:55] here. Thank you for having me.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a pleasure. It’s a pleasure. So Pat has qualified from Barcelona [00:01:00] and is now working in a Bupa practice in Bournemouth. [00:01:05]

Patric Saraby: Yes, exactly. Now I’ve just started a few months ago, so um, [00:01:10] I graduated in July and then I moved over in September to start working at Bupa in [00:01:15] Westbourne, in Bournemouth. Um, and honestly, it’s been a great experience [00:01:20] so far. I’m working at NHS um, private. Um, and [00:01:25] I’m honestly just trying to discover what I want to do further [00:01:30] on later down the line at the moment.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but first job is a nightmare, right? [00:01:35] I mean, on when when you first start.

Patric Saraby: The.

Payman Langroudi: First in the real world. [00:01:40]

Patric Saraby: Three months, I would say were difficult.

Payman Langroudi: How long? How much? How many months have you done [00:01:45] so far?

Patric Saraby: So I’d say I’m just coming on to about 9 or 10 months, but now I’m kind [00:01:50] of getting the gist of it, to be honest. So, um, every week it’s better. [00:01:55] Um, the first few months there was a lot to work out because in university [00:02:00] they don’t train you to come out into the working world. [00:02:05] Yeah, I mean, clinically, they obviously show you what to do, but [00:02:10] there’s a lot more to that than just, um, clinical practice and dentistry. There’s [00:02:15] communication, patient relationships.

Payman Langroudi: Um, but let’s talk through it. Let’s talk through [00:02:20] it. You start a new practice. What? What surprised you the most?

Patric Saraby: What surprised me the most [00:02:25] was that, um. So I didn’t do foundation training because I came [00:02:30] over from Boston. Uh, so I have a mentor. Uh, and at the start, I [00:02:35] felt very much thrown into just the deep end. First day. Yeah. You have a crowd? [00:02:40] Well, examination a few days later. So you have a crown prep. First one [00:02:45] not supervised root canal. First one not supervised. You have [00:02:50] obviously a mentor next door that you can ask questions, but everything’s down to you. So there’s [00:02:55] no one to tell you what to do. Um. And, uh. Yeah. No. You can feel like [00:03:00] you’re you’re swimming and ultimately drowning, but. Yeah, um, you [00:03:05] have to do your best to just stay. Keep your head above water. And, uh, now [00:03:10] I feel like over the time, it’s it’s a lot better. There’s still things that I’m [00:03:15] definitely not 100% sure, but, um, I think the important thing is [00:03:20] to always present to the patient that you’re confident about what you’re doing. Because [00:03:25] the worst thing is to have someone under your hands who’s not confident [00:03:30] in your ability, and they can see.

Payman Langroudi: That you agree with that at the same time. At the same time, you [00:03:35] know that as a one thing I love to hear from someone [00:03:40] who’s trying to do something for me is I don’t know. Yeah, yeah. [00:03:45] You know, as a young dentist, you do think that you need to be fully confident and [00:03:50] so on top of it, that the patient needs to feel so right. But actually from [00:03:55] the patient perspective. Yeah. The idea that you don’t know something and that things [00:04:00] may not go to plan. Yeah, is actually quite reassuring in so [00:04:05] much as they think this person has an idea of what could go wrong. Yeah. Now, I understand [00:04:10] on day one of the job that you can’t say that. Yeah. Because you haven’t even got the [00:04:15] complications behind you yet. Yeah. But my point is, don’t overstress yourself about [00:04:20] looking super confident the whole time. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, that makes sense.

Payman Langroudi: Because, you know, the [00:04:25] patient being by sitting in your chair, they’re already saying [00:04:30] I trust you. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: That’s true. That’s true. I do sometimes say that [00:04:35] I’m going to call in a colleague to just consult with me when I’m not sure. So I call him my [00:04:40] mentor and we’ll have a conversation. And the patient understands. They know that I’ve newly started [00:04:45] working in the practice, and they can tell by looking at me that I don’t have the most experience [00:04:50] Compared to the colleagues in the practice, so I feel like they probably [00:04:55] do appreciate the fact that I do ask questions as well.

Payman Langroudi: But what surprised you the most was the appointment [00:05:00] times. Yeah, no, it was that unexpected.

Patric Saraby: Nhs appointment times is it’s. [00:05:05]

Payman Langroudi: What are we talking.

Patric Saraby: We’re talking. I have a check up 10 [00:05:10] to 15 minutes and I have to do, obviously all the beeps, all the X-rays. [00:05:15] Um, do a treatment plan in that time frame, explain [00:05:20] the treatment plan to the patient, try and give them private and NHS options and [00:05:25] explain the difference between those. Um. And you feel a bit like Slim Shady [00:05:30] sometimes just rapping on a beat, like as fast as you can to get everything out. Um, and then [00:05:35] it’s that one out, next one in.

Payman Langroudi: And typically what’s the next one and how [00:05:40] long have you got.

Patric Saraby: Well it fits. Depends. So if it’s, um, an amalgam filling, we’ve got 20 minutes to [00:05:45] anaesthetise make the whole.

Payman Langroudi: Beginning to.

Patric Saraby: End. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: 20 minutes.

Patric Saraby: Begin to. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:50] That’s. It’s quick. Like it’s really quick. You see?

Payman Langroudi: About [00:05:55] what? About Crown prep.

Patric Saraby: Crown prep. So Crown prep I take longer because [00:06:00] I feel like I can’t I can’t do good quality job [00:06:05] in the time frame. So if it’s a NHS one, I will still try and [00:06:10] put an hour, an hour or so because I need to get it right. If the margins aren’t right then the patient [00:06:15] could get an abscess or something when they come back, and ultimately that would be my fault because I didn’t spend [00:06:20] enough time prepping it. If it’s a private one, then I’ll probably do an hour and 20 or something just to make sure everything’s [00:06:25] 100% correct. Um, but yeah, no, uh, Crown, perhaps [00:06:30] one of those things that because obviously you’re taking the tooth apart and taking so much and it’s a really invasive [00:06:35] treatment, you need to get it right. So a feeling I don’t mind because of feeling [00:06:40] ultimately it’s it can go wrong, but it can’t go as bad as a crown prep. If you [00:06:45] do a bad crown prep it’s it could be very serious.

Payman Langroudi: So yeah, I [00:06:50] think it’s possible to do a filling in 20 minutes. It is possible, yeah. But you do things like numb the patients, [00:06:55] send them back in the waiting room, that whole thing.

Patric Saraby: Um, I know I just numb the patient as soon as they come [00:07:00] in, and then whilst the nurse is getting everything prepared, and then by the time everything’s set up, then we [00:07:05] just start the filling straight away. But the first thing I’d do is I sit the patient in the chair, numb them as soon as they walk in because [00:07:10] that way we we save five minutes. So step one is. Hi. Nice to [00:07:15] see you again. Sit down in the chair. Gonna numb you. And, um, after that, are you [00:07:20] ready to start the filling? The only thing about amalgam is that we didn’t learn it at uni. [00:07:25] It doesn’t exist in Spain. It’s. It’s, uh, it’s something that I literally [00:07:30] on the first day I had to watch YouTube videos on. I’m making it, undercutting [00:07:35] all the preparations, uh, so that the filling stays in there. Obviously it’s it’s [00:07:40] it’s nothing that we ever touched on in uni because in Europe, I think starting the [00:07:45] 1st of January 2025. They banned amalgam in all European countries [00:07:50] except the UK. So yeah, no. Amalgam is something that I, I [00:07:55] don’t fully agree with because I it’s a good material against decay [00:08:00] for sure, but I, I feel like as um [00:08:05] a country we could probably do better than amalgam. Uh, and I feel like composites [00:08:10] are much better material in, in many aspects.

Payman Langroudi: And much worse material [00:08:15] in many aspects to. Yeah. I mean, it’s much harder to get a composite right than amalgam. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. [00:08:20] The thing about.

Patric Saraby: 20 minutes for composite would be very difficult, actually. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The thing about amalgam is, is quite [00:08:25] forgiving, quite forgiving. Um, it’s funny you say that, though, because I qualified [00:08:30] without doing a single posterior composite.

Patric Saraby: Oh, wow.

Payman Langroudi: Because posterior composite back then [00:08:35] was considered incorrect treatment. Yeah, because it is harder.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, it is.

Payman Langroudi: Hard to control.

Patric Saraby: It [00:08:40] takes a rubber.

Payman Langroudi: That’s not a thing.

Patric Saraby: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: No, it was only for Endo back then. [00:08:45] Um, although I quickly stopped doing amalgam myself because we went straight to private practice. [00:08:50] Yeah. So do you. What else? What else surprises you [00:08:55] about the business of dentistry? So what did you what was something that you thought was [00:09:00] going to be one way? And is actually a totally different way.

Patric Saraby: One thing that was never really touched upon [00:09:05] in university is that communication is 50% of the job. So when you sit [00:09:10] down and you speak to a patient, um, you can board them with explanations or you [00:09:15] have caries, you have decay. Um, you I feel like the communication [00:09:20] is probably the most important part of the job. So what I try to do is I try and sit the patient [00:09:25] down in front of a computer and show them pictures. Because if if you’re just throwing words at me and I [00:09:30] have in no sense any sort of education on caries decay, a class two, [00:09:35] class one, whatever, uh, I’m going to have no idea what you’re speaking about, and I’m probably not [00:09:40] going to be very engaged by the treatment plan that you’re drawing up for me. So if you take some sort [00:09:45] of photos or you show them the x ray, and you try and educate them on the x ray and explain what you’re [00:09:50] seeing, then your case acceptance rate is probably a lot higher. So at [00:09:55] the start I was doing a lot of amalgam fillings, but now I would say I’m probably [00:10:00] doing 3 or 4 a week maximum because most people would rather do a composite [00:10:05] filling, because when I go through the pros and cons, they appreciate the fact that I’ve actually [00:10:10] tried to make an effort to explain everything to them.

Patric Saraby: And I’ve shown them that aesthetically [00:10:15] and functionally, a composite filling can be much better than amalgam filling, although they [00:10:20] have to sit in the chair for much longer. In the long term, it’s much more worth it. So people [00:10:25] prefer to do composite fillings, um, if you give them the time and [00:10:30] the physical, um, explanation with photos so they know what [00:10:35] the difference is. Um, another thing that I’ve started doing is [00:10:40] I prefer to do zirconia crowns over the PFM crowns because [00:10:45] the PFM crowns, after a while they tend to chip away. So they’re [00:10:50] stronger because they have metal. But the patients will come back and say that [00:10:55] this crowns. Obviously there’s got a bit of metal showing because the crowns chipped away, the porcelain chipped away [00:11:00] over time, so koalas might not be as strong underneath because [00:11:05] it’s not metal, it’s an alloy. But if it does chip away a bit it’s still white. [00:11:10]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But I mean the the crown chipping is such a like a [00:11:15] something something’s been done wrong in the in the first place if the crowns chipping. Yeah yeah I wouldn’t, [00:11:20] I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t worry about that as the main issue as Laconia is bloody strong. So yeah it’s the strongest [00:11:25] thing in the world. Um, but I mean there’s other options, right. There’s, there’s Emax crowns. [00:11:30] There’s, there’s only so many things you could do. But your mum’s a dentist, right?

Patric Saraby: Yeah, [00:11:35] exactly.

Payman Langroudi: So you had an idea of what it is to be a dentist from her.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. [00:11:40] No. I used to go and spend time in her practice when I was younger. Um, [00:11:45] work experience, things like that during my free time sometimes.

Payman Langroudi: But was there ever, like, an [00:11:50] idea that you were going to be doing something else? Or were you always going to be intense?

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No. When [00:11:55] I was younger, I probably, if I’d be honest, I ever wanted to be a footballer. I’m nowhere near good enough [00:12:00] so that that didn’t work out very early on. Um, I also like the idea of [00:12:05] being a lawyer, because I feel like in series of films, they make [00:12:10] lawyer out to be like a really crazy job where you go to court, you’re having court battles. [00:12:15] Yeah, looks really exciting. So he’s kind of sold me on that. Um, and then [00:12:20] I have, uh, we have a family friend who’s a lawyer, and he told me it’s nothing like that. Yeah. [00:12:25] So, um. Yeah. No, I remember just going to watch my mum. I also [00:12:30] shadowed an orthodontist for a while. Um, and while Also. [00:12:35] I mean, some people absolutely love it. Um, but I personally, [00:12:40] I found it a little bit boring. But some people love it. But I thought it’s a really [00:12:45] clean job. So you spend time planning. Um, and [00:12:50] it’s also really rewarding because you have, like, kids coming to you that they grow [00:12:55] up knowing you essentially, and they come with obviously, um, [00:13:00] crowding or different classes of teeth that don’t match up together. And [00:13:05] when they leave, you’ve obviously done them a real big favour.

Patric Saraby: And they, they leave with straight [00:13:10] teeth. And I feel like it’s a really rewarding job at the same time. Um, and when I was shadowing [00:13:15] the orthodontist, I just saw the kind of the, the pleasure that he got out of his job. Uh, [00:13:20] and that’s something that’s very important. I think you need to have a job which [00:13:25] kind of sets your soul on fire and makes you feel like you’re doing [00:13:30] good things and benefiting the environment around you. So [00:13:35] a lot of the dentists actually in Bournemouth. Everyone knows them because obviously they work [00:13:40] local. It’s Bournemouth. It’s not that big of a place. Yeah. So you walk in the street, you go [00:13:45] to a fish and chip shop. You go to a coffee shop, you’re going to see some people that are your patients. Um, [00:13:50] and depending on the type of dentist you are, you’ll be well received or not [00:13:55] well received. So it’s important to try and put that good energy out. I think, uh, and [00:14:00] people will reciprocate it to you. And, uh, that’s one of the things I love about being [00:14:05] a dentist, because every day I go to work, I feel like I’m. I’m doing a good thing.

Payman Langroudi: Good [00:14:10] thing for society, you mean?

Patric Saraby: Absolutely. Yeah, especially. That’s another thing that [00:14:15] even if I start working. So I work private one day a week, fully private. Um, [00:14:20] um, I do work private the other days, but I have, like an two hour slot [00:14:25] to do private, and the rest is NHS. And sometimes I do NHS, [00:14:30] and if I see that the patient doesn’t have the funds. [00:14:35] Um, but they are very nice patient. I’ll just do a composite filling instead [00:14:40] of an amalgam because, um, it makes, well, 20 minutes difference [00:14:45] for me, but for them, they walk out and they’re really happy I made their day or something like that. [00:14:50] And, um, I feel like small acts of kindness like that not only [00:14:55] make my patients feel happier, but they make me feel happier as well. I feel like I’m doing [00:15:00] a good thing. Um, and I feel like I’m putting good energy out. So maybe [00:15:05] if I do a small favour for someone every day, then other people start doing that to other [00:15:10] people as well.

Payman Langroudi: Do you believe in karma?

Patric Saraby: Uh, I don’t believe. Well, yeah, no, I [00:15:15] do, but I wouldn’t call it karma. So as you, as you touched upon, my, um. I’m Persian, [00:15:20] and we believe in Zoroastrianism. Yeah. So good words, good [00:15:25] thoughts, good deeds. Um, and those three words my parents have [00:15:30] been saying to me for as long as I can remember.

Payman Langroudi: So use the restroom.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, [00:15:35] well, I’m not a proper Zoroastrian, but I follow the.

Payman Langroudi: Paid attention to what it says. [00:15:40]

Patric Saraby: Yeah, I paid attention to to to the, um, guidelines, [00:15:45] essentially. Um, we do all the Iranian traditions, like New Year’s [00:15:50] jumping over fire. This was the Russian stuff. But, um, I mean, I don’t believe in [00:15:55] Ahura Mazda like that. No, but.

Payman Langroudi: I believe in God.

Patric Saraby: I believe in a greater power. [00:16:00] Yeah. Greater power.

Payman Langroudi: And what’s it like? What’s. What’s the story with it?

Patric Saraby: Um. [00:16:05] Uh. So. Well, you. I was born in Sweden. I didn’t really believe [00:16:10] anything when I was in Sweden, because I was. I don’t really remember that much. I moved here when I was six, came here, went [00:16:15] to a Church of England school. I had to read the Bible a lot. Go to church a lot just because [00:16:20] of school. Um, didn’t really believe in that 100%, obviously [00:16:25] in Iran. Um, Islam is a big thing. I went to Iran when I was five. [00:16:30] I saw all my family. Obviously headscarves and all that stuff didn’t [00:16:35] really resonate with me either. Um.

Payman Langroudi: But the greater power that [00:16:40] you’re talking about is what? What’s it doing? Is it.

Patric Saraby: Watching? I don’t believe that someone created [00:16:45] the planet like that, but I believe that there’s definitely a thing where if you are [00:16:50] a good person, good things come back to you as well.

Payman Langroudi: Like karma?

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Like karma. [00:16:55] So that’s what I mean. Not karma in the religious sense of it, but karma in the in [00:17:00] the sense of the word. Yeah, I definitely believe in.

Payman Langroudi: But do you think that’s just like, practical [00:17:05] or do you think it’s supernatural? Because obviously [00:17:10] if I’m nice to you, you’re nice. Back to me. Yeah. It’s practical.

Patric Saraby: Well, it could.

Payman Langroudi: It could. [00:17:15] Some people.

Patric Saraby: Could be a combination of both.

Payman Langroudi: Supernatural. But some. Some people believe that if [00:17:20] I find £20 on the floor. Yeah. And I put it in my pocket and I don’t [00:17:25] look around and say, does this belong to anyone? Yeah. And then I go and buy something [00:17:30] with that £20. Yeah. That thing will come back and get me somehow, [00:17:35] because of my bad karma, that I.

Patric Saraby: Get a sense of your conscience eating away at you as well.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:17:40] that that’s so. So. I’d say that’s more practical.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, well, that’s what I mean. That’s what I mean by. [00:17:45] It could be a combination of both things. So if you put your £20 [00:17:50] note up in the air and you wave it around and you ask, does this belong to someone? [00:17:55] If you afterwards put that £20 note in your pocket after no one’s.

Payman Langroudi: Feel good about. [00:18:00]

Patric Saraby: It, you don’t feel bad about it. Yeah. So there’s the practical difference. And [00:18:05] there’s also a supernatural sense of, well, I mean, I asked to wave the £20 note around [00:18:10] maybe with that £20 note, you go and buy a sandwich for a homeless person or something like that, because it’s [00:18:15] this money you found on the floor.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s an interesting question, right? I [00:18:20] used to bother myself a lot with is there a god or isn’t there a god? Yeah, but now [00:18:25] I’m much more bothered with this idea of should there be a god or shouldn’t there be a good.

Patric Saraby: See, [00:18:30] I, I struggle with there being a God because.

Payman Langroudi: But what I mean by God [00:18:35] is third party something, some power. Yeah. Assessing [00:18:40] what’s going on. That that question. Should that be a thing or should [00:18:45] it shouldn’t it be forget whether it is or it is.

Patric Saraby: I struggle with that idea.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re saying you don’t like there to [00:18:50] be a third party looking down? Checking.

Patric Saraby: I would like it. And you.

Payman Langroudi: Should.

Patric Saraby: Be. I [00:18:55] would, I would like that idea. Yeah. But the. So so I [00:19:00] have to bring this back to my education as a child. Yeah. Iranians, [00:19:05] we have a complicated relationship with religion because of what’s happened in [00:19:10] our country.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a good way to put it.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, it’s definitely a good way to put it because [00:19:15] they used scripture to essentially take over the country. Um, [00:19:20] and they managed to pull the wool over a whole 70 million [00:19:25] people’s eyes, which is incredible. And they managed to do that with the Word of God. Now, [00:19:30] the reason I struggle with it is if God was watching [00:19:35] the people who were in charge of Iran using His Word in the way that they’ve used it for [00:19:40] the last 40 years, to essentially clamp people’s voices [00:19:45] and freedom in the country, surely God would do something about that. And there’s there’s [00:19:50] much worse example.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, there’s some some child was born today and tomorrow [00:19:55] the bomb dropped on the child.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, that’s what I mean. There’s much worse examples than that as [00:20:00] well. But but I just I just struggle with this concept of, um. [00:20:05]

Payman Langroudi: No, but but but people who believe think, you know, God moves in mysterious ways. [00:20:10] You know, like like you’re not qualified to. And that’s like, that’s.

Patric Saraby: Such a vague answer is.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [00:20:15] yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patric Saraby: You can get away with saying anything if you’re going to be a god. God works in [00:20:20] mysterious ways. Um, and I do believe that religion is also [00:20:25] something to do with family.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Of course. It’s it’s from your roots. A lot of [00:20:30] people identify it with their culture. Um, and. Yeah. No, because [00:20:35] I’m Iranian, I just have a different sense of it because obviously, [00:20:40] I don’t want to say, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Pigeonhole yourself like that. I [00:20:45] mean, my point is this. Yeah, that some people think if there is no God, there is [00:20:50] no good. Some people believe that. Yeah. And so they think, well, if there [00:20:55] wasn’t someone looking over you, we’d all go kill each other and, you know, [00:21:00] steal from each other or something like this. Yeah. My point, though, is when a herd of elephants [00:21:05] is walking across the. So the savanna, the the grassland. [00:21:10] Yeah. They’re not messing each other up and fighting each other like they’re just being a [00:21:15] species. Yeah, absolutely. And so all morality doesn’t have to have come from [00:21:20] this higher power. Like morality in itself is like a boomerang. [00:21:25]

Patric Saraby: It’s a different.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a moving target in itself. Yeah, absolutely. But it doesn’t [00:21:30] mean just because I don’t believe or haven’t got the rule book looking down on me [00:21:35] that I’m going to go and steal from you. Yeah. You know, there’s separate things like, you know, as I say, [00:21:40] the elephants aren’t messing each other up.

Patric Saraby: Perhaps, perhaps. I mean, the world [00:21:45] has changed a lot. Mhm. And when religion was really big, uh, in the, I [00:21:50] mean, the Catholic Times in Europe, they didn’t have the [00:21:55] police, the technology um to, to stop thieves and things like that. [00:22:00] So a really good way of stopping people from doing bad things.

Payman Langroudi: Certainly people use religion, [00:22:05] right.

Patric Saraby: It’s by saying, well, there’s God and His word is this, uh, [00:22:10] and therefore you shouldn’t do.

Payman Langroudi: But but, you know, people misuse all sorts of stuff, right? People misuse the internet. [00:22:15] Yeah. But I still want the internet. Yeah. You know. You know what I mean? Like the misuse part we all get, [00:22:20] right? All the wars, all the everything that can happen because. But I’m talking about that notion [00:22:25] of third party. Yeah, it’s quite interesting because if we could arrange it. Right. Cameras everywhere [00:22:30] could have some.

Patric Saraby: I think big.

Payman Langroudi: Brother. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Do we want that [00:22:35] or not? Is that. Is that. Would that make the world a better place? Listen, man, I don’t think so. Yeah, I.

Patric Saraby: Don’t [00:22:40] agree as well, because I think that you need to have your own privacy. Yeah. And [00:22:45] honestly, decision making should come from within. I mean, you shouldn’t do [00:22:50] something because you think, oh, that’s right. The big man upstairs would want me to do that. You should do it [00:22:55] because you want to do it.

Payman Langroudi: That’s also a brilliant point, right? That’s also a brilliant point. So funny aside. [00:23:00] Let’s keep going. So you wanted to go [00:23:05] to dentistry in the UK? Yeah. That was your goal?

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No. Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: 18 [00:23:10] year old.

Patric Saraby: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What happened?

Patric Saraby: Um. So I took my A-levels. [00:23:15] Um, and honestly, A-levels are difficult, so I probably [00:23:20] underestimated my A-levels a little bit. Uh, and I thought that, you know, I’m a, [00:23:25] I’m at a grammar school, like, I’m. This should be like a walk in the park. I [00:23:30] get some results, and I open the envelope, and I had a, a, B, and [00:23:35] my offer was a a start. So through [00:23:40] clearing, I had another option for another university, which did accept me. [00:23:45] I’m not going to name the university. Um, just out of respect for them. But I went and had a look [00:23:50] and it wasn’t where I saw myself living for the next five years.

Payman Langroudi: Didn’t let it down. [00:23:55]

Patric Saraby: No, no, no. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And you were brought up in Bournemouth. So you were looking [00:24:00] forward to coming to the big city. London?

Patric Saraby: Exactly. I mean, Bournemouth was one of those places where if [00:24:05] you go to Europe and you tell people I’m from the UK, they’re going to say, where are you from? And I’ll [00:24:10] be like Bournemouth and they’ll be like, where’s that? And I’ll be like, well, London basically, because they don’t say [00:24:15] they don’t know. So you just have to round it up to the nearest big city. And in the south of [00:24:20] England, that’s London. And then they start asking you questions about London. You’re like, Are Southampton? [00:24:25]

Payman Langroudi: Bombers cool though I’ve been to pools. [00:24:30] Very cool.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Pools. Nice pools. I actually live in pool. Do you do.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. [00:24:35] No, pool is nice.

Payman Langroudi: So. So you wanted to go and then what? You were heartbroken? Obviously.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No. Absolutely. [00:24:40] Like, um, that’s one of the things they don’t tell you about resorts. They like, if it doesn’t [00:24:45] go to plan, there’s nothing to pick up the pieces except you. Your parents don’t know what to do. My parents [00:24:50] didn’t grow up in this country. They have no idea how it works. Yeah. Um, the teachers, I mean, they’re they’re [00:24:55] just going to console you on the day, but they’re not going to help you fix everything afterwards. [00:25:00] So the immediate routes you’re left with is the UK route. Okay. I get somewhere [00:25:05] else through clearing, which is not my first choice, but I take whatever’s on the table, which I really didn’t [00:25:10] want to do because I had everything planned out. Um, and I was really sad that it didn’t go the way I planned [00:25:15] out.

Payman Langroudi: We didn’t even try to find another place.

Patric Saraby: Um, I didn’t, I [00:25:20] just.

Payman Langroudi: In.

Patric Saraby: The UK? No. I just thought, if it’s not London, then I don’t want it. Which in hindsight, [00:25:25] maybe I could have looked like up north or something like that. But I was just [00:25:30] 14.

Payman Langroudi: There’s 14 dental schools for me.

Patric Saraby: There’s not enough dental schools as well. I actually genuinely [00:25:35] believe that. So in the south of England, in Southampton, Bournemouth, we don’t have any. There’s [00:25:40] Bristol and then there’s London. But those are 2.5 hour drives away. Yeah. So there’s [00:25:45] absolutely no university. I know Portsmouth have just started a dental therapy course [00:25:50] or something like that, which is really good because we need more, uh, people in dentistry in the UK, [00:25:55] but still there’s no cause for dentistry or anything like that. Plymouth [00:26:00] is, I mean, not too far away, I guess, but it’s it’s in the corner of the country. So. [00:26:05]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But Bristol, Cardiff. Manchester. Birmingham. That’s true. Glasgow.

Patric Saraby: That’s true, but it’s [00:26:10] not.

Payman Langroudi: You did not want those.

Patric Saraby: It’s another thing is because I’m from Bournemouth. [00:26:15] I’d never been to any of those places. Do you know? I’ve been to London and I [00:26:20] grew up for years just thinking. London. London. London. So. So [00:26:25] if you’re going to say like Liverpool to me, I’m just thinking, wow.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing.

Patric Saraby: Amazing [00:26:30] town. It could be anywhere. I’m sure it’s amazing town. I think I’ve been in John Lennon Airport once, [00:26:35] but I’ve never actually seen Liverpool.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing.

Patric Saraby: It’s like, um, it was just unchartered [00:26:40] territory.

Payman Langroudi: But but then so. So then you thought what [00:26:45] had the idea of abroad even come across your mind before this moment? [00:26:50] Like, was there something you heard that said, if I don’t get into things, I’m going to look abroad? Or did that happen [00:26:55] after you got your results?

Patric Saraby: I think it was, I know, no, it happened after I got [00:27:00] my results 100%.

Payman Langroudi: In the All on Kings.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, yeah, I pinned everything on Kings. Um, that was [00:27:05] that was the choice. That was what I wanted to do. Um, and then.

Payman Langroudi: So then you spoke [00:27:10] to your parents?

Patric Saraby: I spoke to my parents, and my parents said, look, um, [00:27:15] my my parents obviously didn’t study in the UK themselves. They studied in Sweden. [00:27:20] So they said, well, you could look at going to another country such as Sweden [00:27:25] because you’re Swedish. You have a Swedish passport. If you go to Sweden, University is free there. And [00:27:30] I looked into Sweden and I just thought Sweden’s cold Sweden [00:27:35] is really cold and there’s no sunlight in the winter. So it’s. [00:27:40]

Payman Langroudi: In Sweden. Were you for the first six years?

Patric Saraby: Stockholm. Stockholm. So it’s really, really great [00:27:45] place. But it’s cold and it’s dark. And I just. I remember the cold in the [00:27:50] dark. My sister doesn’t remember it. She loves Sweden because she’s a bit younger than me. But I remember Sweden [00:27:55] at its worst as well as its best and at its best. It’s a fantastic place, [00:28:00] really good culture, really nice people. Um, and then I just started thinking, well, [00:28:05] if I if I’ve got a kind of free hit here, then let’s have a look at all of [00:28:10] Europe. And I have cousins who are from the Canary Islands. So [00:28:15] I’ve been to Madrid, I’ve been to Barcelona, I’ve been I’ve been to Spain quite a few [00:28:20] times and I just really like Spain. Another thing about Spain is [00:28:25] that the culture is not too far away from my own culture. At home there really warm [00:28:30] blooded people, as we would say in Persian. They’re very kind. They’re willing [00:28:35] to help you. They’re quite inviting.

Payman Langroudi: Um, great countries.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. It’s fantastic, [00:28:40] but the culture is what makes it so, so, so great. Like, um, [00:28:45] I’ve for my friends watching this, I always tell them, like Iran, if [00:28:50] if the ayatollahs aren’t there, it’s an amazing country. And people just treat you so [00:28:55] nice. They’re so happy to receive tourists. Actually, they will literally take the shirt off [00:29:00] their back and give it to you. And I feel like Spain is quite similar in terms of that [00:29:05] culture, which was really important to me. I never felt like, um, like I [00:29:10] was treated as if I was Spanish. No one ever said, you, you look different or [00:29:15] you speak different or anything like that. I mean, maybe I could get away with looking Spanish, but they just treated [00:29:20] me like I was one of them. And that was probably the nicest thing that anyone could ever do [00:29:25] for you. When you leave your parents and your country to live somewhere else. [00:29:30] Um, and that warmth really helped me excel [00:29:35] at uni. So I just picked up the bat and I just kept running [00:29:40] with it and it was incredible.

Payman Langroudi: I can relate to what you’re saying because funny [00:29:45] is that might sound to you. Yeah, I felt like that in Cardiff. Yeah. Welsh people very, [00:29:50] very different to English people. Yeah, yeah, very warm family sort of orientated. I [00:29:55] was like, wow, I’ve lived in London for 30 years or whatever. It wasn’t, but by that time it was like [00:30:00] 18 years. Yeah, actually 12 years. Yeah. Because [00:30:05] I came at six. Um, I’ve lived in London for 12 years, and yet in Cardiff, somehow I [00:30:10] feel more at home a little bit in a weird, weird way.

Patric Saraby: There’s also a weird culture in the UK, [00:30:15] though, and I feel like I’ve noticed this since I’ve come back. And don’t get me wrong, I love all my friends [00:30:20] in the UK, but there’s this weird culture of if you see someone driving a Ferrari [00:30:25] in the UK, you look at the car and you’re like, oh, what a show off! [00:30:30] Yeah. If you see someone driving a Ferrari in the United States or in [00:30:35] Spain or whatever, you go up to the guy and say, what do you do for a living? And how can I get to where you are? Yeah. [00:30:40] So there’s not that culture.

Payman Langroudi: Where you get it right, because Sweden is even more.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, yeah, Sweden is even [00:30:45] more like that. But this is a weird culture, right? Because I mean, okay, he’s got [00:30:50] a Ferrari, but why does it upset you?

Payman Langroudi: What you do, you don’t get it from the Sweden perspective. [00:30:55]

Patric Saraby: I mean, I do that’s about showing off and that’s embedded in their culture. But [00:31:00] in the UK it is difficult because it’s almost like I feel like sometimes [00:31:05] people don’t want you to see you doing better than them. I genuinely feel like that in the UK and sometimes, [00:31:10] um, it spikes people. Um, and I feel [00:31:15] like abroad there’s not as much of a culture as as that. I mean, [00:31:20] in the United States, they’re very obviously embedded in capitalism and doing well. And, uh, they [00:31:25] love their podcasts and stuff like that. They get people.

Payman Langroudi: On. Have you been to America?

Patric Saraby: I have been to America. Yeah, [00:31:30] I actually was in America in the summer, but I was in Miami, so everyone spoke Spanish. It was. Yeah, that’s not America. [00:31:35] It’s not really America.

Payman Langroudi: That’s the thing. I of course I know what you’re talking [00:31:40] about. Of course I hear you. Like, if I was going to raise money for a new business. Yeah, [00:31:45] I would rather do that in America than here. Or somewhere like Dubai. Somewhere. [00:31:50] Somewhere can do. Yeah. Where you say, I’ve got a new idea for a business.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, that word can [00:31:55] do. That’s pretty much. Yeah, that’s pretty much it actually.

Payman Langroudi: I get it. But also, [00:32:00] I prefer living here to living. Living in America.

Patric Saraby: Oh, yeah. No, [00:32:05] it’s not necessarily.

Payman Langroudi: Some people prefer living in America. That’s true. Yeah. And the reason is [00:32:10] I find America a little bit aggressively capitalist.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, definitely.

Payman Langroudi: That’s almost the [00:32:15] only thing that matters is how much money you have.

Patric Saraby: Well, I would say.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Now, by [00:32:20] the way, by the way, by the way, at least you know what it’s about. It’s about money.

Patric Saraby: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So at least we know [00:32:25] what it’s about. It’s like here. It’s kind of like a moving target. Yeah. Like you’re not really [00:32:30] sure. Like, it doesn’t matter how much money you’ve got. You may never get into that. The gentleman’s [00:32:35] club or whatever it is. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: You can’t compare America with any other country in the world when it comes [00:32:40] to money. Like they are just work.

Payman Langroudi: Out all about the money.

Patric Saraby: All about the money. They [00:32:45] they take. What is it? Two weeks of vacation a year?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Two weeks in your whole year. [00:32:50]

Payman Langroudi: I remember, I remember once I was in skiing in America, and I broke my goggles. [00:32:55] I went to get some new goggles, and I looked. And you know how the service, the service [00:33:00] over the moon, the amazing service. And she was opening up all these boxes for me. I [00:33:05] was trying them on. I was asking questions, and then I genuinely wanted to buy [00:33:10] one of them. Yeah. Put my hand in my pocket and I’d left my wallet on the table in the restaurant with [00:33:15] my friends, and I said, oh, I’m sorry, I haven’t got my wallet yet. And this person who was [00:33:20] like, so super sweet and lovely, she suddenly looked [00:33:25] at me like, I’m some sort of like, thief. Yeah, but put everything away and that [00:33:30] switch. Yeah. Like it was scary. It was scary, right? Yeah. Who’d been to Canada? [00:33:35]

Patric Saraby: Um, I’ve not, but I’ve got family in Canada. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Canada’s like, got everything America’s got, but with [00:33:40] nice people. It’s a nice thing about. Yeah, it’s a nice thing. I haven’t [00:33:45] been to Australia.

Patric Saraby: No, that’s that’s on my list. I’ve got a friend who just moved out there recently [00:33:50] and he is. He’s absolutely loving it. And he’s moved to Sydney and he’s saying it’s basically [00:33:55] a better version of the UK, but they have better weather. The only [00:34:00] problem with Australia is just too far away. I couldn’t live there. I’m like, I [00:34:05] couldn’t not see my parents for a long time. Like it would be difficult living out [00:34:10] there.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a funny thing. Like if I said to you, what is the better place to live? Stockholm [00:34:15] or Barcelona? If you look at that in a linear way. Yeah, [00:34:20] linear and in a linear way, it would be like, alright, let’s count all the things that are right about Stockholm. [00:34:25] All right. This. It’s clean. The people are law abiding. Oh, yeah. All those hundred [00:34:30] things that are amazing about Sweden. Yeah. And then if you count the same thing about Spain. [00:34:35] Yeah. And you might have Sweden might come in with 67 brilliant things [00:34:40] and five bad things, and Spain might be even the other way around. Yeah. If [00:34:45] you’re thinking in a linear way, you’d say, well, obviously Sweden’s a better place to live than Spain, [00:34:50] but sometimes it’s those 4 or 5 things are the or [00:34:55] so important, so you can’t think of it in a linear way.

Patric Saraby: Complicated topic. So I [00:35:00] speak about this topic with my Spanish friends and with my girlfriend a lot. And [00:35:05] the issue with Spain is, as you said, there’s pros [00:35:10] and cons, the pros, there’s an incredible quality of life. Like people, they don’t [00:35:15] drink much in Spain. They go out, they have some food with their friends, they go play tennis [00:35:20] or paddle or they’re out and just doing stuff outside, which is really [00:35:25] great. But the working hours and the money you’re paid in Spain, as a dentist, it’s nowhere [00:35:30] near what you would earn in the UK. So if you have to sacrifice one [00:35:35] thing to get another thing, so it’s it’s ultimately up to [00:35:40] you. I mean, you have to write down the lists of reasons on a piece of paper and you have [00:35:45] to think, well, which one is more important?

Payman Langroudi: So What? What is the important one?

Patric Saraby: You [00:35:50] can do that for any country, I think. Yeah, yeah. Of course. So that’s, um. I think [00:35:55] as a student, actually. Spain was the most incredible country I could have gone through because. [00:36:00] No. No responsibilities. Um, honestly.

Payman Langroudi: What was the what was the process [00:36:05] for getting into Barcelona like?

Patric Saraby: So I sent my, uh, [00:36:10] A-levels. They had no problem with that. Really happy with that. They told me, we want you to get a [00:36:15] flight over, um, and do an interview and, like, um, entrance examination to [00:36:20] join our English, uh, course for the first two years and then after.

Payman Langroudi: English [00:36:25] language dentistry course.

Patric Saraby: Exactly. So the first two years, purely in English, uh, and they give [00:36:30] you that as kind of like a buffer zone to learn the Spanish language and then go into the third [00:36:35] year.

Payman Langroudi: You just gave your A-level results and they said, cool, you’re coming. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: They said, they said, come and do an interview. [00:36:40] So they wanted to speak to me. I went to do the interview and they had a weird exam that was [00:36:45] I feel like it was their version of the UK cat like shapes and nothing to do with dentistry. [00:36:50] A bit of general knowledge and an English exam actually as well. Which which was funny [00:36:55] because, I mean, I’d never been asked to do, um, an English exam since GCSE, [00:37:00] so I didn’t take it for A-levels and the exam was, well, I don’t want to be rude, but it’s [00:37:05] really easy because it was to try and see who’s got like a B1 level, which is not not.

Payman Langroudi: Like [00:37:10] testing someone who’s coming from.

Patric Saraby: But then I had.

Payman Langroudi: Somewhere else.

Patric Saraby: Had like French kids sing to my side and [00:37:15] I could see they were like pulling their hair up, really, really stressed out. Like this exam is really difficult. And [00:37:20] I was thinking what a privilege that I, that I grew up in England and I, and I came here, um, [00:37:25] did the interview, another thing which no one told me about, and I had absolutely no, no clue about [00:37:30] the British accent abroad is that it’s really something over [00:37:35] there, like here. You don’t notice because everyone has it. Yeah, but you go abroad like I remember. I’m in [00:37:40] the interview and I, we just started talking and she’s looking at me like. And [00:37:45] I was thinking, well, no one’s ever looked at me like that before. Um. And. Yeah. No, it’s [00:37:50] it’s something that if you stand up, you do a presentation or you do a speech or something, people just immediately look at you like, wow. [00:37:55] And that’s something that people here don’t really realise. If you go and you work abroad for a little bit [00:38:00] or you do a course or something abroad, like, uh, just immediately because of your accent, people really take [00:38:05] to you and they want to hang out with you as well because they want to improve their English. It honestly, it works [00:38:10] like that. I had a lot of Spanish people that became my friends just because at the same time as I was [00:38:15] learning Spanish, they were learning English. So it was a vice versa kind of relationship.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:38:20] so what did you when you said, I’m going to have you interviewed? They [00:38:25] said, okay, you’re in.

Patric Saraby: Did the interview happen? In the interview they said, yeah, we’re going to give you the place.

Payman Langroudi: What were the [00:38:30] costs?

Patric Saraby: Um, so the cost was €12,000 a year, [00:38:35] which equates it to about £10,000 a year, which is more [00:38:40] or less what you pay in this country to go to university as well. The living costs are a [00:38:45] part, I’ll be honest. My parents had to help me out with that.

Payman Langroudi: Um, they paid for the university.

Patric Saraby: The [00:38:50] the the the university.

Payman Langroudi: They they also.

Patric Saraby: Paid. Yeah, they paid for that as well. But [00:38:55] the living cost was something that obviously didn’t come into the equation.

Payman Langroudi: Like, how much did you spend?

Patric Saraby: Well, [00:39:00] probably I’d say it was around 20,000 a year, [00:39:05] more or less.

Payman Langroudi: On top of the 10,000.

Patric Saraby: No no no no. In total. Oh, really? Yeah. Like [00:39:10] this. This is another thing. So Spain is not that expensive compared to here. [00:39:15] And you’re obviously we use British pounds here. So the conversion rate when [00:39:20] you’re using £1,000 is like 1.2, 1.3, something like that.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:39:25] that thousand pounds a month or whatever was paying for your rent, your food, your everything. [00:39:30] I travel everything.

Patric Saraby: I to be honest, I didn’t need to spend [00:39:35] that much in the first few years because I didn’t really have any friends at the start until [00:39:40] I met my classmates. Um, and yeah, we would go out and stuff, but it was it wasn’t [00:39:45] anything too over there. We wouldn’t go out and get tables and nightclubs, for example. Yeah. Like, uh, and [00:39:50] you try and save up. So if you went on a skiing trip or something, you had enough funds. [00:39:55]

Payman Langroudi: So the first two years was only with kind of foreign [00:40:00] students.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: In English. And what did that cover?

Patric Saraby: Um, was [00:40:05] that non-clinical? The first year was absolutely non-clinical. We did a bit of. We did a bit of dental anatomy. [00:40:10] We generally anatomy. Now they have this really good thing in [00:40:15] Spain where if you finish first in the exam in the year, they pay you back [00:40:20] the subject. So they just give you one point K off 1.5 K off the next year. So I [00:40:25] had no idea. And I think Dental asked me, I got it in like the [00:40:30] anatomy of the human body. And then there was an English for dentistry, which was really, I [00:40:35] mean, directed towards the European.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: And um, I got it in that as well, obviously, because [00:40:40] English is like a first language to me. Yeah. So, um, my, my [00:40:45] dad comes into my room and it was Covid times and he goes like, I’ve just got an email from the union and [00:40:50] I’m thinking.

Payman Langroudi: Something’s gone.

Patric Saraby: Wrong. What have I done? I’m just going through the list of [00:40:55] things in my head. And he said, yeah, they’ve they’ve taken off like 4K for your for your feet next [00:41:00] year. Amazing. I was thinking wow. So I had no idea about what’s called the matrix. And [00:41:05] this is a thing in Spain where if.

Payman Langroudi: You only if the guy who comes.

Patric Saraby: Top. Yeah. Only for the guy or it’s the top [00:41:10] three or something like that. So if it’s very close, it’s like top three.

Payman Langroudi: Did you study your butt off?

Patric Saraby: Um, [00:41:15] I would say so in the first couple of years. Yeah. And then when we went [00:41:20] met the Spanish kids, then it was much harder because then it was.

Payman Langroudi: Because the fun [00:41:25] started.

Patric Saraby: The fun started, but also the language changed.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yes.

Patric Saraby: Yes, yes. So to [00:41:30] come in the top for the Spanish.

Payman Langroudi: Guys was hard.

Patric Saraby: Right? Yeah. Well, um, [00:41:35] not only because they had a massive advantage with the language, they [00:41:40] were also at home, so they go home. Foods in the fridge. Like in [00:41:45] Spain, you don’t go to a different city or town, or you go to uni where you’re [00:41:50] from. Oh really? So most of them live at home. If you’re living at home, it’s it’s much easier [00:41:55] to I mean, you don’t have to wash your clothes. You don’t have to go to the supermarket. [00:42:00] Life’s a lot easier when you live at home. Um, and we [00:42:05] had to obviously compete against that. So it was more difficult in the last few years to to try [00:42:10] and really get the tricolour. Um, I think now [00:42:15] in my last ever grade, I got, I got one with my dissertation, which was really nice [00:42:20] kind of send off from university, but yeah. No, it was it’s I feel like, um, [00:42:25] it’s a nice carrot.

Payman Langroudi: And did you have to learn both [00:42:30] Spanish and Catalan?

Patric Saraby: No, I had to. So you have to learn [00:42:35] Spanish for to speak with the patients. That was the first thing that really hit [00:42:40] me because in third year we started clinics. And immediately you’re you’re [00:42:45] sat with people who don’t speak English as your patients. So you have to speak [00:42:50] Spanish. You don’t have a choice.

Payman Langroudi: Who taught you Spanish? Was that part of the course or not? Separate. You had to learn that [00:42:55] by yourself.

Patric Saraby: So this is actually funny because if my dad watches this whole life. My dad lived in Madrid when [00:43:00] he was younger. He moved from Iran, and the only country that accepted him before Sweden was [00:43:05] Spain. So he moved to Madrid and he learned Spanish by just going out and [00:43:10] speaking to people. Yeah. Um, so he told me I didn’t have any lessons. And [00:43:15] conscious of the fact that my parents were paying for everything, I said to my dad, well, I’m not going to need lessons as well. So [00:43:20] I just we just used to go to, like, house parties and then over [00:43:25] time managed to just pick up a bit of Spanish, got better, met [00:43:30] my girlfriend and that that really, um, brought me to another level with the language. But [00:43:35] you have to learn then, because then the parents are involved.

Payman Langroudi: The grandparents in [00:43:40] a language. So, like, how long did you think it took before you thought, wow, I can speak a bit [00:43:45] Spanish.

Patric Saraby: Wow. So I honestly, I’ll be I’ll be real. I came home in the [00:43:50] summer of after the second year, and my parents told me, you need to study Spanish because next [00:43:55] year is in Spanish. And I thought, no, like I’m. You already know [00:44:00] I was. I was thinking like, I’m a pretty good student. Like, this should be easy. It [00:44:05] wasn’t easy. The third, third year I started and I had no clue what I was doing, and [00:44:10] then I then it hit me like I need to, I need to start putting effort in. And then third [00:44:15] year was when I failed an exam for the first time, actually in uni I had and I remember [00:44:20] just getting the result and I was thinking like, this can’t be real, this, this can’t be possible. Um, [00:44:25] and then I really started putting effort in and I’d say by For [00:44:30] fear I. I learned Spanish enough that [00:44:35] I could speak it to people. Speak it to patients. Answer exam questions. By [00:44:40] the end of fourth year, I was really decent at Spanish. And [00:44:45] by the end of fifth year, I started understanding Catalan as well. So [00:44:50] now I’m in a pretty good place with both of them. I’m better at Spanish. But if I had to hold [00:44:55] a conversation in Catalan, I think I could do so quite comfortably.

Payman Langroudi: But how did that happen?

Patric Saraby: Just [00:45:00] by being around people who spoke Catalan. So the words is [00:45:05] different from Spanish, but it’s not super different. So if you’re listening to [00:45:10] people who just speak Catalan, which I had a lot of friends who they didn’t like speaking Spanish because [00:45:15] they spoke Catalan at home. So they preferred speaking Catalan. Um, [00:45:20] and I’d just be sat around them. I had, um, I’d be with their family sometimes as well [00:45:25] because they’re really inviting. They’re like Persian people. They’re like, come to our house, we’re going to have some food and [00:45:30] you stay the whole day there with their family. And slowly the words start to make sense. [00:45:35] Slowly start translating and putting sentences [00:45:40] together in your head. And then one day, just inadvertently, I realised. [00:45:45] So I heard someone speaking and I thought, I understand everything. It’s [00:45:50] like it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Really Z’s and X’s in Catalan, huh?

Patric Saraby: Yeah, there’s a lot of X’s. Z’s? [00:45:55] Yeah. It’s it’s it’s, um, it’s it’s a difficult language, actually. I think it’s a very [00:46:00] difficult language, but when you kind of learn a few [00:46:05] phrases and you start to put together sentences, then it’s suddenly not so difficult. Like, um, [00:46:10] I remember I went to a football match, Bournemouth, Man City, and, um, [00:46:15] I was trying to get a picture with Pep Guardiola because I’m, I love football, [00:46:20] I love pep and what he’s done in football. And there was loads of [00:46:25] kids lined up saying shouting please, please come for a photo. And [00:46:30] I just thought, well, I’ll give it a shot. And I shouted please in Catalan. And he turned around [00:46:35] and looked at me and he went, we’ll get a photo. Yeah. I just [00:46:40] remember thinking like that, that if I didn’t speak the language, he would never have even [00:46:45] looked at me. So that’s what I mean by when I said earlier, languages are like a like a key to someone’s heart. [00:46:50] If you speak the same language as someone, immediately the respect goes up for you. Especially [00:46:55] if you’re not.

Payman Langroudi: From Spanish speaking Spanish people.

Patric Saraby: Definitely. But this is this [00:47:00] is an officer. I, um, I met a guy who’s German and he spoke Farsi, [00:47:05] and I was.

Payman Langroudi: Hal.

Patric Saraby: Awestruck. So he worked in an [00:47:10] embassy in Tehran when he was younger.

Payman Langroudi: I met one like that.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, I was, I was [00:47:15] just amazed. You can speak Farsi. No, no one can speak Farsi unless they’re [00:47:20] from Iran with their parents.

Payman Langroudi: A couple of English guys who can speak vastly better than most people I’ve ever [00:47:25] seen.

Patric Saraby: It takes you back, though.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Patric Saraby: You just can’t believe it.

Payman Langroudi: For.

Patric Saraby: Sure. The same way I [00:47:30] went to Mexico in the summer with my uni mates. Um. And the Mexicans couldn’t [00:47:35] believe that I spoke Spanish, but I’m from England. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My parents are Iranian. [00:47:40] How do you speak Spanish? And they were just really, really impressed by it. And I was thinking, like, [00:47:45] it’s a nice feeling when someone says that to you as well because you’re like, okay, I put the effort [00:47:50] in to learn the language.

Payman Langroudi: You know, some places in Barcelona, I’m going to have to talk to you afterwards because I’m going for that Dental forum [00:47:55] event. Oh, yeah.

Patric Saraby: You might see you might see a few of my professors there, actually.

Payman Langroudi: Well, go for [00:48:00] it. It’s an event that it’s an event where they speak date corporates.

Patric Saraby: Oh [00:48:05] right. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. With suppliers from here. Yeah, but it’s all done over there.

Patric Saraby: It’s all done over there because it’s a nicer [00:48:10] place.

Payman Langroudi: To get people there. Yeah, just get people to it.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. It’s nice.

Payman Langroudi: Actually. And we’ll be there.

Patric Saraby: I’m sure. [00:48:15] Yeah. It’s a nice way to expense your holiday as well. No, it’s a good one.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it is for them. Right. So [00:48:20] the corporate, the corporate corporate free. Yeah, yeah.

Patric Saraby: Even pay it off. I don’t think of that.

Payman Langroudi: And then they charge [00:48:25] us. But it’s actually a very good business model.

Patric Saraby: Because they might have to ask Bupa if I can represent [00:48:30] them out there.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I think they will. Yeah. So you’re [00:48:35] going to tell me about special places in Boston? Absolutely. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, of course I’ve got a list actually.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [00:48:40] talk about let’s talk about the course. Was there quotas. Did you have to do a certain number of root [00:48:45] canals, a certain number of crowns or so.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. They had that in theory. But like [00:48:50] they gave us a list of that in the last year. Um, you have to do this many of this May treatments, [00:48:55] but the treatments you get, it’s down to luck that you have a patient [00:49:00] that comes in, sits down in the chair, and you do the, um, exam. You [00:49:05] obviously tell the patient you need this, this, this, this. I mean, it’s it’s completely [00:49:10] up to luck. If some people got, like, five root canals because they had a patient that needed five root [00:49:15] canals, some people had one root canal because they just didn’t have any patients that came in with a [00:49:20] root canal. So.

Payman Langroudi: So they didn’t hold you to the quotas?

Patric Saraby: They didn’t hold us to the quotas. [00:49:25] And they said they would, because I feel like they needed to give people like, um, [00:49:30] a kick up the ass to to say you need to do everything and you can’t have the fear [00:49:35] of of doing so. You can’t shy away from doing something because you have to meet the quota. And we got to the end [00:49:40] of the year. And then like the last two weeks, they were like, no, I mean, if you didn’t hit the quota, we’re not not going to let you [00:49:45] graduate. But like we said that so that people would have gone for a treatment instead [00:49:50] of thinking like, okay, I’ll pass this over to my partner because I don’t feel 100% confident, [00:49:55] which I think is actually a good idea because, uh, you need to put people out of their comfort zone, especially [00:50:00] when they’re studying. Um, I think that you need to try and do treatments [00:50:05] because like I said, when I started working NHS the first few months, [00:50:10] there’s there’s no one to tell you what to do. So if you haven’t done the treatment before in Unit, [00:50:15] then I can imagine it’s a very stressful experience. You’re watching YouTube videos or something to [00:50:20] try and get the steps right for a root canal. It’s not. You don’t want that pressure as well when [00:50:25] you’re doing a root canal for the first time. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But you’re doing that all [00:50:30] the time right now.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You’re doing things for the first time every every week.

Patric Saraby: I remember [00:50:35] I had, um, a case where a patient came in. I think this was about two months into [00:50:40] university, and, um, she said, yeah, I want to do composite bonding [00:50:45] on my front teeth, and we need to reshape them everything. And she said, can you do that? And I thought, [00:50:50] I thought, yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I thought, I can do that. I did it [00:50:55] and it actually it came out really well. I took photos and everything. I was really happy. She was really happy. She actually called [00:51:00] Bupa the next day to to say that. Please don’t let him leave. Like, he did a really [00:51:05] good job. I’m really happy with the outcome. And I just remember whilst I was doing it and then [00:51:10] I finished, I gave her the mirror and I was just sad, like please say it’s good. And she, she [00:51:15] said oh I love it. And the nurse looked at me like, oh, you’re poor. Have [00:51:20] you done that? Like many times. And I was just thinking, it’s my first time. And I was like, yeah, I’ve done it before. [00:51:25] But there’s a lot of things like that. You’ve never done it before, and you just.

Payman Langroudi: Know for you [00:51:30] it’s going to be every every week, something new that you haven’t done before. And by [00:51:35] the way, it’s the only way to enjoy dentistry is to keep on improving. [00:51:40]

Patric Saraby: I feel like dentistry. There’s like a gradient or a graph where risk [00:51:45] and reward touches each other. So you do. There is a certain element of risk. I mean, obviously [00:51:50] I’m I’m not quite there yet, but when you’re placing implants or like a, [00:51:55] a treatment with a surgery involved, the risk is a lot higher. Obviously the reward is a lot [00:52:00] higher as well because you’re paid a lot more for it. But there’s definitely a gradient where you accept a certain [00:52:05] level of risk in the treatment. Um, and you get paid more for [00:52:10] it. But if you don’t take those risks, then you’re not going to get that reward in your career [00:52:15] as well if same for business, really, but there’s always an element of risk. Um, [00:52:20] and you just need to make sure. So when I, whenever I do, I go home. Um, [00:52:25] at least for the first three months of when I was working, I would just watch YouTube videos every [00:52:30] single day. Like, probably.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting.

Patric Saraby: 2 or 3 hours. Just YouTube videos. [00:52:35] Because I feel like a lot of dentistry is actually self-learning as well. I mean, you can do you have [00:52:40] to do what you have to do in university to get the title, but just because you’ve finished university [00:52:45] and you’ve started working, it doesn’t mean that you need to stop. You’re nowhere at [00:52:50] that point where you don’t know anything.

Payman Langroudi: Still literally nowhere.

Patric Saraby: So I’m and this is another thing. My [00:52:55] parents, obviously my mom’s a dentist. She didn’t have this when she was younger. There was no YouTube. There was no videos. [00:53:00] Now you can watch 20 videos on doing a crown prep on this specific tooth [00:53:05] that you’re going to do the next day. You can find little tricks on how to find the canals. [00:53:10] Doing a root canal that didn’t exist back then. Um, and I feel like obviously [00:53:15] our, my generation were very lucky because there’s so many [00:53:20] resources now online, the free resources as well, that you can just have a [00:53:25] look at um, and learn from. And when you go in the next day, you do feel a lot more confident [00:53:30] because you’ve watched this over and over and over again. So it’s, [00:53:35] uh, it makes you feel a lot more calm when you’re working as well, which is really important. [00:53:40] Um, and when you’re calm, the patient feels that [00:53:45] calm as well. 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Should we get to the darker part of the pod?

Patric Saraby: Yeah, absolutely. [00:53:50]

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about mistakes.

Patric Saraby: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What mistakes have you made?

Patric Saraby: Um. [00:53:55] Wow. So, honestly, this is something that [00:54:00] they don’t tell you in university. When you make a mistake in [00:54:05] dentistry, it ruins your whole week. You go home and you think about it over and over [00:54:10] and over and over again. So. So a mistake I’ve made once. [00:54:15] Which I haven’t done since, is that I did a crown prep and I was rushed [00:54:20] because you have different elements in the day. You’re your [00:54:25] minds everywhere. You have to do the treatment plan. You have to type up the notes. Didn’t take [00:54:30] a PA of the crown before. Now sometimes [00:54:35] you might get away with that. But the crown had a bit of an abscess and [00:54:40] I didn’t take the PA, so I did the crown on the tooth and the patient [00:54:45] comes back with pain. And I’m checking to see if the PA.

Payman Langroudi: Is how long. [00:54:50] How long after you fitted the crown or before you fitted?

Patric Saraby: No, no. The patient came back about a week [00:54:55] after I fitted the crown. I said, I’ve got I’ve got a pain.

Payman Langroudi: I fit day.

Patric Saraby: Right now a week, a week after fit that. [00:55:00] Yeah. Permanently cemented. Permanent cemented. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:55:05] then you took a pa.

Patric Saraby: I took a pa. Yeah. I’d see the abscess and I went, where’s where’s my pa [00:55:10] from before? And I’m looking for it. I can’t find it. I check every [00:55:15] resource for X-rays that we have on the computer. I couldn’t find a PA, and [00:55:20] I was thinking, oh, wow.

Payman Langroudi: So what happened?

Patric Saraby: Um, she had to have a root canal. So [00:55:25] the patient has the root canal, and I offered to redo the crown. Obviously 100% [00:55:30] free under a warranty. Redid the crown. Um, now it’s fine, [00:55:35] but the patient had to have the root canal. Um, fortunately, it was a very nice patient, [00:55:40] so I didn’t have a problem by. I could have had.

Payman Langroudi: It referred the root canal.

Patric Saraby: I referred the root canal. [00:55:45] The private patient. The private patient. So, yeah, I mean, it’s my mistake [00:55:50] on my behalf not taking the PA the first time, but I guess now I know [00:55:55] these things happen. Um, you just need to. You need to give yourself the time [00:56:00] to do all the steps right before you do a treatment. Yeah. Um, and. Yeah, no, it [00:56:05] obviously is a learning experience.

Payman Langroudi: You know, the learning point from that. Yeah, is [00:56:10] that, you know, the difference between you and your professor of restorative [00:56:15] dentistry. Yeah, of course there’s many things here. But honestly, [00:56:20] it comes down to doing the basics, right? Yeah. That [00:56:25] when when you refer something to someone who’s an expert, what that expert does [00:56:30] is not skip a single step, does every step exactly [00:56:35] how it’s supposed to be done. It’s not it’s not a magic thing, you know? But but [00:56:40] when you’re thrown in NHS level, you’re speeding up, you’re not sure what [00:56:45] you don’t know. And then sometimes, man, we forget things. Yeah, yeah. And and you, [00:56:50] you can’t be too hard on yourself for being a human. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: This the thing that it [00:56:55] does affect you. It does.

Payman Langroudi: It better. But it’s good that it affects you. If it didn’t affect you, [00:57:00] that would be a problem.

Patric Saraby: I was really sad for like, I for a few days, like I just go to work and [00:57:05] I don’t want to speak to anyone because I was just so angry about two days.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got I gave up dentistry [00:57:10] in 2012. Yeah. And I still sometimes think about this patient in 2008. [00:57:15] Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Who? Um. It was different. It wasn’t. Well, [00:57:20] she was unhappy. Yeah. But I was trying my very best for her. [00:57:25] And she wrote this letter saying he was being careless or something. You know, like some [00:57:30] something like that. Yeah. Still, I still think about it. I still sometimes think about it. Now imagine. [00:57:35] Yeah. You’re a dentist, too. [00:57:40] That patient is now guessing. Yeah. And you’ve started [00:57:45] to get questions around. Are you going to get erased from the register? [00:57:50] Yeah. And now you’re thinking my kid can’t go to that school anymore because I can’t pay [00:57:55] for that school anymore. And on top of that, you were doing your best. Yeah. Thousands [00:58:00] of our colleagues are in that situation. Yeah, I know, I know many. In that who’ve been through [00:58:05] that.

Patric Saraby: And that to me sounds like the worst stress [00:58:10] imaginable. Like this complaint from like GDC. Obviously you don’t know if they revoke your [00:58:15] license, you get struck off.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, you’ve got some experience of it from your mum.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, my mum’s [00:58:20] told me all about it.

Payman Langroudi: Studying abroad. You don’t get this fear of God [00:58:25] put into you studying abroad.

Patric Saraby: They don’t even take proper notes. [00:58:30] Yeah, yeah. So this is this. This was amazing to me. So NHS, I come in and I’m, I’m, I’m doing [00:58:35] my notes and my mentor comes in and says, well what’s this? And and I’m [00:58:40] like, well it’s my notes. And he went, no, no, no, that’s not the notes.

Payman Langroudi: You need to write an essay.

Patric Saraby: You need a template first. [00:58:45] And I’m thinking, what what’s that for? They need a template so you can speed up. It [00:58:50] needs to be an essay of at least the whole page with all the bases covered. And [00:58:55] he’s explaining to me about NHS, GDC complaints and all all this and how [00:59:00] this, this is the biggest stress in dentistry. Um, and then I’ve [00:59:05] got friends in Spain who are writing their notes on a piece of paper. So? [00:59:10] So it’s a completely different thing over there than it.

Payman Langroudi: Changed [00:59:15] here recently. Well, not really not that recently, but when I was a dentist, thank God there wasn’t that. [00:59:20] Yeah, yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Well, this is the thing, though. The notes they lock after [00:59:25] 24 hours. Yeah. That’s right. So you don’t even if you’ve missed something you can’t change it. Yeah. [00:59:30] It looks like you’ve tried to cover something up if you try and change it.

Payman Langroudi: You know, notes are supposed to be contemporaneous [00:59:35] or whatever.

Patric Saraby: That’s cool. Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: So tell me about tell me about the experience with [00:59:40] Bupa. Did you did they kind of sponsor you back [00:59:45] or how?

Patric Saraby: So I actually I wanted to work NHS, [00:59:50] so my mum’s practice is private and I felt like I need NHS [00:59:55] to get experience, good experience before I start working private because [01:00:00] it’s someone coming straight out of uni, going straight into private. I mean, obviously it [01:00:05] can’t be done, but the level is nowhere near what private needs to be. Um, private needs [01:00:10] to be a level above NHS. So that’s why I said we need to start NHS for experience. So I actually [01:00:15] applied to my dentist and Bupa and I got a job offer at both. [01:00:20] Um, and so this was the fact.

Payman Langroudi: Intentionally [01:00:25] go for corporate.

Patric Saraby: Yes, I went intentionally because I thought a corporate is somewhere [01:00:30] where it’s quite organised. Um, there’s organisation from [01:00:35] above. They use good materials in corporates, uh, because they’re [01:00:40] backed by multi-million pound companies. So the composite, [01:00:45] the adhesive, all the materials that they use are pretty good materials. And [01:00:50] the dentists working there, I feel like it was quite easy to ask [01:00:55] them for to come and give me advice or help me with the case, because [01:01:00] they’re not running the practice. They’re associate dentists as well. And they obviously know [01:01:05] my situation that I’ve just come over. So it was um, it was [01:01:10] almost like, uh, I felt like there was less responsibility working in a corporate [01:01:15] than working in a private, um, or independent practice. Um, and that’s one [01:01:20] of the reasons that I like to do it. Another thing was that so corporates [01:01:25] have a really good golden hello, which is a [01:01:30] fee that the practice will give you for joining or relocating [01:01:35] to the town. So I had my [01:01:40] dentist and Bupa and what I decided was I’m just going to play them off each other and say, well, they’ve offered [01:01:45] me this and they’ve offered me that.

Patric Saraby: And Bupa gave me a really, really good offer that my dentist [01:01:50] wouldn’t match. Um, and I decided that But [01:01:55] you’re also going in the practice. I like the vibe a lot. Um, [01:02:00] so I decided Bupa was the one I wanted to do. Um, and actually, [01:02:05] I feel like Bupa is a very well-run company. Um, my dentist is probably [01:02:10] also a very well-run company. Um, I know other corporates, which I’m not [01:02:15] going to name, which aren’t necessarily I haven’t heard the best stories, but [01:02:20] Bupa, there’s a lot of potential for private, um, especially [01:02:25] in the area where I’m working in. And there’s also [01:02:30] this sense of like everything in the practice [01:02:35] was really modern. So they had scanners. Um, they had ops, stuff that in independent [01:02:40] practice you might not find because they cost a lot. So and independent dentists [01:02:45] might not necessarily be able to afford an OPG machine or a Eteria scanner [01:02:50] or stuff like that. So I came into the practice and I thought, I want to [01:02:55] learn dentistry with the newest technologies because I feel like in ten years [01:03:00] everyone will be using a scanner.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so what, you didn’t even look at independence at all?

Patric Saraby: Um, [01:03:05] well, my my mom’s practice is independent.

Payman Langroudi: Um, no. But someone else’s practice.

Patric Saraby: No, no, [01:03:10] I didn’t I didn’t even have a look at this. But I also think that the [01:03:15] independence most of them in my town have gone private.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Patric Saraby: That’s [01:03:20] a that’s a big thing because there is a real struggle to find NHS dentists. [01:03:25] Corporates are good at finding NHS dentists because they have a good [01:03:30] liaison team to find dentists from abroad, or that their reach is [01:03:35] a lot bigger than an independent. An independent practice will put an advert in indeed, and then [01:03:40] hope fingers crossed that someone’s gonna get in touch with them and they can set up an interview or whatever. [01:03:45] Corporates have recruiters and they themselves are actively searching for people. [01:03:50]

Payman Langroudi: So you were like looking to expose yourself to the NHS somewhat, [01:03:55] and yet have good equipment and good organisation and a basic [01:04:00] minimum standard that you knew you were going to get from a corporate. It’s interesting. I’ve never, never thought about it [01:04:05] like in those terms. I think that and Bupa, did they make promises to you about like [01:04:10] what your future was going to be like? What you know. Tell me some of the stories [01:04:15] about okay. Then then you started. Anything surprise you? Anything was better than you thought or worse [01:04:20] than you thought.

Patric Saraby: Um, honestly, people did tell me some things. So the [01:04:25] first thing was that, um, obviously they gave me a performance related bonus, [01:04:30] which is a gold golden hello, which, um, was, uh, it was a good deal. They [01:04:35] told me that the scanners or the like, they have all the scanners, [01:04:40] like the I hero, and all the nurses knew how to use them. Um, [01:04:45] I mean, not all of them knew how to use them, but, yeah, some of them did. So [01:04:50] it was. It was good. Um, they kind of told me that after [01:04:55] I get my NHS performer number as well, I can renegotiate my contract, which is something that [01:05:00] I thought was quite a good deal. Um, and they offered me a really good UDA rate, [01:05:05] which is also important because for a new grad, the rate [01:05:10] that they offered me, I don’t think I know anyone who got that. Um, and [01:05:15] I feel like because of this desperation to find an NHS dentist, they [01:05:20] were willing to pay that because there is no one in Bournemouth that’s really worth working [01:05:25] NHS apart from a few practices. Um, most dentists [01:05:30] obviously after a few years of working, maybe ten years, 15 [01:05:35] years, they feel like they’re good enough to go private and they don’t want to work with the NHS anymore. Um, [01:05:40] and Bupa made me feel very welcome as well. Uh, [01:05:45] they said we have lots of resources to do courses, which is another thing. You get a lot of [01:05:50] discounts if you work for a corporate to do a course to go up to London or Manchester, [01:05:55] let’s say you can do a course on anything corporate bonding, Invisalign, whatever you want to do. [01:06:00] Um, a corporate have the contacts for you to [01:06:05] go to the course, you get a discount, or you go with the Bupa team or whatever. [01:06:10] Um, and I feel like it’s an independent practice. Obviously you can do the same thing, [01:06:15] but maybe there’s not the structure or organisation in place that the corporate has for you [01:06:20] to be able to facilitate that.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the worst thing about working there?

Patric Saraby: The worst thing about [01:06:25] working there? Wow. Well, [01:06:30] I hope I didn’t get fired or anything, but, um, no, [01:06:35] it’s, um, I probably say the worst thing about working there. Sometimes [01:06:40] the in different rooms, they have different materials. So in one room they [01:06:45] have stuff for orthodontics. So I’ll be working with a patient. And sometimes there’s a nurse coming in [01:06:50] or a nurse going out. Um, which personally I, I’m not [01:06:55] too keen on. I suppose they have to do it because they need to get certain materials [01:07:00] out of the room. But I feel like when the patient is sat in the chair, nobody should enter the room [01:07:05] like it should just be dentist, nurse, patient. And then when the treatment is over, then you [01:07:10] can come into the room. But the worst thing is you come into the room.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know what does that [01:07:15] believe?

Patric Saraby: Because imagine you come into the room and you pick something up like a box or something, and I’m working with the patient, [01:07:20] and you drop the box and the patient jumps up or something. I’ve got a burr in his mouth. If the burr goes in [01:07:25] his tongue, the burr just goes like that. So it’s just going to collect the tongue tissue or.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:07:30] they literally get in your way.

Patric Saraby: No, no, they don’t literally I mean, they go around the side and [01:07:35] stuff, but there’s noise.

Payman Langroudi: There’s there’s a worry.

Patric Saraby: I just know if I was a patient, especially [01:07:40] if I’m a private patient and I’m paying however much for a filling or a [01:07:45] crown of stuff. I don’t want any external noise. Um, I just want the dentist [01:07:50] to be focusing on what he’s doing. I mean, it’s not a massive problem, but it’s something that grinds my [01:07:55] gear sometimes. And so someone will walk in and I won’t even look up to, like, acknowledge [01:08:00] them. I’ll just continue doing my work. And I just thinking, like, go outside right now, but it’s not like a [01:08:05] rude thing. It’s just I feel like.

Payman Langroudi: Nah, it is a good thing that, you know, you know what? We [01:08:10] end up as dentists doing this sort of thing. Yeah. Big mistake, big mistake. [01:08:15] The best thing you can do as a dentist in that moment is look up and smile.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Okay. [01:08:20]

Payman Langroudi: Honestly, I see that some of the messages we send out with our body language [01:08:25] here. Yeah. Yeah. And then. And then the net effect of that. Yeah. Is that that [01:08:30] nurse then goes out to the reception and says he’s in a good mood or something. Yeah. Some crap [01:08:35] like that. Yeah. And you know. Okay. It pisses you off because people walk into. [01:08:40] I mean, I thought you were going to say something much more serious. Much more serious than that. Yeah, but I had [01:08:45] the CEO of Bupa sitting. Yeah. Sitting where you’re sitting. And, you know, their whole [01:08:50] thing is about making the associate happy. Yeah. You know.

Patric Saraby: They’re good. [01:08:55]

Payman Langroudi: At that. They’re really focussed that my wife works at Bupa. Yeah. Um, sometimes [01:09:00] in corporates decision making. Slow.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, I feel [01:09:05] like I feel like that. Definitely. And there’s a lot of, um.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, you’re kind of the kind of guy who knows what [01:09:10] he wants. Let’s imagine you decide you want something to get approval [01:09:15] up the chain. Sometimes that can take time.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, I do write emails quite a lot. Do you? Yeah. [01:09:20] There’s. Sometimes I just don’t get a reply. But yeah, I do. I do write a lot of emails.

Payman Langroudi: Did you go to that [01:09:25] event they had in Wales?

Patric Saraby: Um, so so I started working like, um, two months before that event. [01:09:30] So not yet, but I’m. I’m hoping I get invited next year. Um, and I get [01:09:35] nominated for one of the categories because I’ve been working towards that.

Payman Langroudi: Um, towards an award.

Patric Saraby: I [01:09:40] tried to get patients to leave, like, reviews. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. No, I’m [01:09:45] really big on that. If patients leave reviews, there’s there’s like a written [01:09:50] statement that you’ve done good work. And the more of those you have when [01:09:55] a person goes to book online.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a win for everyone.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Yeah, it’s a win for Bupa is a win [01:10:00] for me. Because if someone goes to work with Bupa, they have a platform called Dental, which, um, that’s used [01:10:05] in all Poopers. So with Dental, you can book from the website. If [01:10:10] you go on Google and you type in like, like a restaurant, if you’re going to a restaurant, you’re going to look at [01:10:15] how the reviews are, what foods, what plates might be nice, what people [01:10:20] like to eat there. So with the review, if they put my name in it and [01:10:25] people see that, hang on, there’s like 20, 30, 40 reviews on this guy. He [01:10:30] he must know what he’s doing.

Payman Langroudi: Walk me through the process. What do you say? Literally. Do you ask everyone? [01:10:35]

Patric Saraby: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: Not everybody. The ones who are very happy.

Patric Saraby: It’s. It’s the ones who are very happy are when I feel like [01:10:40] I’ve done a quite a nice treatment. I took a before and after photo. I show the patient the photo, [01:10:45] and I see that they’re as happy as I am about how the treatment has gone. [01:10:50] And then I say, because there’s like a barcode on the door of my practice [01:10:55] room, and I say, if, if it if it doesn’t bother you, then you could just scan that and leave me [01:11:00] a review. And yeah, no, if they are as happy as I am about the treatment [01:11:05] then they’ll do that. So yeah, I probably have about 40 or 50 reviews. I used to do [01:11:10] it more. Now I do it less than I used to just because like I’m [01:11:15] more focussed on the work, um, aspect, but it is something [01:11:20] that is very conscious and I think in the future Google reviews [01:11:25] will be a big thing.

Payman Langroudi: The big thing.

Patric Saraby: Right now, yeah, they’re a big thing right now. But like, like [01:11:30] a month after I started doing all these reviews and stuff, I sent out an email saying that we [01:11:35] have a competition between all the practices and the southwest region for Google reviews. So [01:11:40] like we were already in the lead because I was doing it inadvertently [01:11:45] because I thought it’s a great thing to do.

Payman Langroudi: Also, is that the prize you’re going for? Oh [01:11:50] yes.

Patric Saraby: It was that.

Payman Langroudi: Was the number one review.

Patric Saraby: You get like pizzas or something. But, [01:11:55] um, no, no, it’s it’s.

Payman Langroudi: It’s the which prize are you going for? The one you said. Oh, I’m working towards a [01:12:00] prize.

Patric Saraby: I’d like to be like a, like a, like, best young dentist in [01:12:05] Bupa or something like that. That’s definitely something that I think about. Yeah, I know it’s something. I think about it. I [01:12:10] feel like it’s important to have these little things in your head. When I was at university, I [01:12:15] had this in my head since day one. I don’t know why, I just thought I wanted to do graduation [01:12:20] speech. I just had that. I don’t I’m not sure why. Um, but [01:12:25] I just kept saying it to myself, like every week, like I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it. And [01:12:30] then we got around to fifth year and they voted for me to do it. [01:12:35] So it happened. And that’s that’s the real thing. I really believe that if you if you talk [01:12:40] yourself into something like manifest. Yeah, exactly. Manifestation. Like I’m going to do this. You [01:12:45] can’t do it.

Payman Langroudi: You can’t.

Patric Saraby: Do anything. If you tell yourself enough that you’re going to do it. You [01:12:50] have to stay true to your goal, so you have to.

Payman Langroudi: Work.

Patric Saraby: At it. Work [01:12:55] out how the pathway works. I realised that if I become the delegate of the year [01:13:00] at uni, then it would be a lot easier for me to gain people’s trust. And then in fifth year they would vote for [01:13:05] me to remain delegate, uh, and then become the guy who [01:13:10] gives the graduation speech. So in fourth year, I wasn’t the delegate. Actually, they voted for someone [01:13:15] else. That’s just very disappointing. But then in fifth year, they voted for me after this.

Payman Langroudi: Why was it important [01:13:20] to you to give the graduation speech?

Patric Saraby: See this? This this is, um. Honestly. [01:13:25] And I’ve watched one of your other podcasts, and I really [01:13:30] resonated with it. Resonated with me as, um, I feel like my parents gave [01:13:35] me this thing called immigrant mentality. Yeah. Where you just have to strive like [01:13:40] you have this mentality that I’m going to take over. And I feel like a lot of immigrants [01:13:45] in the UK have that as well. And I feel like watching my parents grow two businesses when [01:13:50] I was younger.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Inadvertently, somehow that passed on to me. So I’m in this country, [01:13:55] in Spain with no family. Um, obviously my friends and [01:14:00] my girlfriend and stuff, but I’m there like, I want to take over at uni. I want to [01:14:05] be the guy that the professors are looking at at the end of the year giving the speech. I want to be the guy giving [01:14:10] the speech to my classmates. And another thing was, I didn’t have my parents for five [01:14:15] years and my parents and my grandparents, which is very important to me, are coming [01:14:20] for this one day, okay, to sit in the audience and watch. Okay, I [01:14:25] want them to see me up there.

Payman Langroudi: Because graduation, when they give you your [01:14:30] robes and.

Patric Saraby: All of that.

Payman Langroudi: They give you the robes. One guy talks two guys.

Patric Saraby: So there’s two. There’s [01:14:35] the delegate and there’s the sub delegate. But I was delegate, so I was up [01:14:40] there and I gave the first speech.

Payman Langroudi: So you made them really proud.

Patric Saraby: I literally had like, um, so [01:14:45] people want us, but we have dance from where I’m from in Iran. Um, Bandari. And I [01:14:50] literally had my grandma, like, standing up in front of the crowd, just going crazy with her [01:14:55] hands, just taking in the moment. I remember just looking down and I thought, [01:15:00] you. You guys deserve this because I like people don’t know. But Iranians went [01:15:05] through very hard situations to get to Europe. They [01:15:10] lost a lot. Um, they had they had to suffer to get [01:15:15] to the places they’re at. Um, especially a lot of the friends. [01:15:20] My parents have, a lot of the family we have. It was difficult to [01:15:25] start with nothing and then build it all up from there. Um, and I just remember looking [01:15:30] at them and thinking, you guys deserve this. Like this. This one’s for you. And that’s that’s something [01:15:35] that drove me, like, I just thought, like, my parents have supported me through uni. And [01:15:40] if I can do anything, just give something back. I know that this speech [01:15:45] would really make them happy. And I genuinely think, like my grandparents [01:15:50] will remember that forever. Just that moment of.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, for sure.

Patric Saraby: Yeah for sure.

Payman Langroudi: For [01:15:55] sure.

Patric Saraby: Like it was. It’s something that will stay with me forever as well, and [01:16:00] that’s why I manifested it every day. I just remember thinking like, my grandad, he’s going to be really happy when he sees me [01:16:05] up there. And yeah, it’s small things like that though. They can push you to [01:16:10] do a lot.

Payman Langroudi: So what are you manifesting right now?

Patric Saraby: Oh, so right [01:16:15] now it’s, um, I mean, it’s it’s we’re we’re we’re a long, long [01:16:20] way away. I what I do is I have little things like on [01:16:25] the road. So like the super thing that award I subconsciously I think about it sometimes. [01:16:30] Um, but the, the ultimate goal would be I don’t [01:16:35] want to I would want to be a multi practice owner, but not too not too big, not too big. Because I [01:16:40] think the bigger the chain of practice is, the more difficult it is to to run it well. [01:16:45] Yeah. But, um, if you could have a practice in different [01:16:50] cities, maybe in three different cities, um, but you need a brand, you need a [01:16:55] marketing team and everything, but it’s something like that. I’m not sure about specialising. I used to think [01:17:00] I’m 100% going to specialise. I think I’ll do implants and prosthodontics or something like that at [01:17:05] the moment, but I was really set on specialising. But I don’t want to limit everything [01:17:10] to working in one speciality all the time. I mean, I’m [01:17:15] sure because I like the fact that I have very [01:17:20] generalist. Yeah, I like the fact that I do different things all the.

Payman Langroudi: Time, [01:17:25] man. People come up to me your age all the time. Say, what do you think I should do? Yeah, [01:17:30] yeah. And then some of that, I say, well, what are you thinking about? And some guy might say, [01:17:35] I want to be an endodontic. Yeah. And I said, do it. Yeah. Or another guy [01:17:40] might say I want to own 100 practices. I do it and then. But which one? Which [01:17:45] one of these should I do? Yeah. Yeah. You should do any of them. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Any other [01:17:50] way. That’s a good way to.

Payman Langroudi: Think about any and all of them. But when I say any of them, my point is this. [01:17:55] You know that whether you can see yourself being a periodontist or [01:18:00] an implant allergist or an endodontics, all [01:18:05] of those three things will set your heart on fire. Was that [01:18:10] the phrase use all of those. All of those three things will set your heart on fire. If [01:18:15] you’re really good at them. Yeah. The reason that orthodontist was enjoying his job so [01:18:20] much was because he was so good at it. Yeah. Yeah, but being good at it is much more important. [01:18:25] That’s true than than the subject itself. Yeah. I [01:18:30] agree with you that like owning a hundred practice is very different to being in endodontics. [01:18:35] That different those are different things. Yeah. But in general, the sooner you decide, [01:18:40] the better. So you can start aiming in that direction sooner. [01:18:45]

Patric Saraby: Yeah. That’s true. You know that’s.

Payman Langroudi: True. So but but why do you think multiplex is just one up your [01:18:50] mum.

Patric Saraby: Because she has one practice. No it’s not, it’s not about that.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:18:55] but but it’s an interesting question. Yeah. Why three. Why not 300. You know what I mean. Like so why why why not one? [01:19:00] Because one is beautiful.

Patric Saraby: I feel like one is amazing.

Payman Langroudi: But one is a beautiful. [01:19:05]

Patric Saraby: Thing. One. One is beautiful because you focus all your attention on that one. You know, the patients in the practice, [01:19:10] they know you as well. But I feel like we really have one practice in our family. [01:19:15] My girlfriend’s parents are also both dentists and they practice like there’s already [01:19:20] in Barcelona. Yeah. So there’s foundations to build on there. Yeah. Um, and imagine [01:19:25] if in 30 years I can work in [01:19:30] Barcelona when it’s the winter here, when it’s cold, and then when it’s the summer here, [01:19:35] I come back and I work here. Yeah. I just need a GDC number, and I need a, uh, [01:19:40] to be. Obviously.

Payman Langroudi: Although you’re in the wrong profession for that.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: If [01:19:45] that was your.

Patric Saraby: Goal, I really. I realised that too late, though. Yeah, yeah, I realised that.

Payman Langroudi: Some people pull that off, [01:19:50] man. But if that was your goal, you’ve gone in the wrong profession.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, I realised that way too late. But it’s. [01:19:55] It’s not impossible. It’s not impossible. So also something that I [01:20:00] would love to do is teach. I think I’ve just, I just like, [01:20:05] um, speaking, um, with people interacting.

Payman Langroudi: Like being on the stage, [01:20:10] like you said.

Patric Saraby: It’s not. It’s not just that. It’s it’s it’s like, um, I, I [01:20:15] love being sat in the chair and working, But I feel like there’s also more to that. [01:20:20] Like if you if you can teach people, it’s a it’s a nice thing for you and it’s a nice thing to them. [01:20:25] And it’s very social as well because you meet a lot of like minded people.

Payman Langroudi: Teaching is fun. Fun.

Patric Saraby: It’s [01:20:30] like a vocation, actually. If you’re if you’re really good at what you do, then it’s a vocation because you’re [01:20:35] just pulling up cases that you’ve done or experiences that you’ve had, and you’re giving them to [01:20:40] other people who are obviously less experienced. And I feel like it’s [01:20:45] it’s a fun way, social way as well. Um, to to work. [01:20:50]

Payman Langroudi: Did you have fun? There’s no doubt about that. Yeah. Um, and it’s you’re right. In [01:20:55] so much as dentistry. Four walls.

Patric Saraby: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: A bit lonely in that sense. [01:21:00] So it’s nice to get out. Um, at the same time, it’s. [01:21:05] I mean, teaching is within the profession in so much [01:21:10] as, you know, like that, your your mentor shows you how to do something. You [01:21:15] ask someone on Instagram, how did you do that? Like, we’re constantly all of us [01:21:20] teaching each other continuously. Yeah. You know, like, as a profession, you [01:21:25] end up being like that. You know, there was a apprentice kind of situation before. [01:21:30] Um, your generation all want to teach all of them. I haven’t spoken to a [01:21:35] single one who says I don’t want to teach. Um, and [01:21:40] that needs to be thought about a little bit, you know, because I don’t know.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. [01:21:45] Not everyone can teach.

Payman Langroudi: Everyone have to.

Patric Saraby: Teach. Yeah. No, everyone doesn’t have to teach. But [01:21:50] I like what you’ve just said about my mentor, because I didn’t even think about that. You [01:21:55] could just teach by mentoring someone who’s come from a different country.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Impacts the funny [01:22:00] thing. Yeah. Like, you know, like this, that moment on the stage when your [01:22:05] grandparents and all that and, you know, that’s a high impact moment. Yeah. But it [01:22:10] impacts the funny thing. When I was your age, I used to think about it in a linear way. I think I want [01:22:15] to impact the maximum number of people. Maximum number of humans. And then my mentor said [01:22:20] to me, much more interested in impacting a few humans very deeply [01:22:25] than lots of humans. Very little.

Patric Saraby: Superficially.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And [01:22:30] he was he was that guy. He was very interested in that, you know. And [01:22:35] so the way that you think about what dent you’re going to [01:22:40] put into the world.

Patric Saraby: I think the quality of the dent is probably better the smaller the sample [01:22:45] size.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, it’s an interesting thing. I’ve always thought like like from a parent’s [01:22:50] perspective, you’re maybe a bit older than my kids, right? But from a parent’s perspective, [01:22:55] yeah, I would if I could do anything for my kids, it would be to have them be confident. [01:23:00] Yeah, yeah. And that’s a difficult one. Yeah. Because you get arrogance and confidence [01:23:05] that they can have.

Patric Saraby: Like in Persian we have the saying like a [01:23:10] tree. The more apples it has the lower its headers.

Payman Langroudi: Right. Right. So [01:23:15] so I mean by the way common sense is very different but in the same ballpark. Um, [01:23:20] I want them to be kind. Yeah, definitely. And I want them to [01:23:25] want to make a dent in the world. Change the world a little bit. Um, [01:23:30] my own personal thing. Listening to you. Yeah. You [01:23:35] do also want to do significant things. You want to help?

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Of course. That’s one [01:23:40] of the. If you don’t if you don’t want to help in your in dentistry or in the wrong profession, I [01:23:45] think.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Agreed. Yeah I agree it’s not. It’s not. So some people want [01:23:50] to be dentists because of financial drive and stuff like that, that I feel like that’s completely the [01:23:55] wrong way to go about it. And that’s how you get in trouble as well.

Payman Langroudi: Well, that said, [01:24:00] you’re very open about your financial motivation as well though. Yeah. Like you’re not making any excuses, but you’re like [01:24:05] the primary motivation.

Patric Saraby: When I’m working I always think. Don’t get greedy.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:24:10]

Patric Saraby: That’s because if you get greedy, then you start playing outside the lines [01:24:15] or doing something shady.

Payman Langroudi: At your stage. At your stage, just remember that the better [01:24:20] you do, the more money will come by itself. Yeah, that’s.

Patric Saraby: That’s [01:24:25] exactly how I think. But I so I know of dentists who I [01:24:30] don’t want to say that they’re, I don’t want to talk about their work, but necessarily sometimes [01:24:35] they, they do what’s best for them, not for the patient in terms of treatment planning. Um, [01:24:40] which is it’s a shame. And I mean, I there’s people like this in every profession, [01:24:45] but you shouldn’t be a dentist if you’re financially motivated. [01:24:50] And to that extent you should be financially motivated. I’m not saying don’t be financially financially motivated, [01:24:55] but you need to be financially motivated to an extent where you do everything by the book and in the best interests [01:25:00] of the patient, always.

Payman Langroudi: Absolutely.

Patric Saraby: Um, and that’s [01:25:05] the main thing that I always think, like even even I mean, I’m, I’m in my first year. So [01:25:10] when I said, don’t get greedy, I mean, take your time. Yeah. And [01:25:15] really analyse all the situation. Don’t straight [01:25:20] away just think. Yeah. We’ve got to do a crown on that tooth. What if the patient has period. You need to check if the patient has perio [01:25:25] stabilise the period. There’s so many steps to go through. If you just go straight up [01:25:30] and say let’s do the most expensive treatment that later down the line, you’re going to get a complaint and everything’s [01:25:35] going to become a lot more stressful. So don’t get greedy means don’t be in too [01:25:40] much of a rush to start coming back home with insane [01:25:45] numbers, because there’s there is no real rush as long as you’re doing everything in the right order. [01:25:50] Like you said earlier about a specialist, the specialist does every single step, right?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: So [01:25:55] if if you can do that, even on a general dentist scale, for sure, then you’re [01:26:00] going to be a very good general dentist for sure. So sure, that’s the main thing, but don’t [01:26:05] get greedy. It’s almost like being humble at the same time. Yeah. Which is very important. [01:26:10] Um, and don’t get too ahead of yourself as well. Don’t start. Like, for example, [01:26:15] I’ve been working for a year, and I still don’t do upper sevens as [01:26:20] I don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Do as an.

Patric Saraby: End. I don’t do them. I’ll be honest. And I’m just going to say I don’t do [01:26:25] them. Why do I not do them? Because I just don’t feel like I’m [01:26:30] at that level yet where I can go for those sort of teeth. Hopefully [01:26:35] one day I’m going to be there and I feel confident doing it, but I [01:26:40] can’t do it. Or not. Yeah or not. And it’s okay if not, like it’s not the end of it. That’s what specialists [01:26:45] are for as well. But um, yeah, no I won’t do them [01:26:50] because I, I feel like something could go wrong. And instead of accepting a patient’s money, I’ll just [01:26:55] be like, it’s better if I send you to someone else. Um, even if you really want me [01:27:00] to do it, I can’t.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s end up with our [01:27:05] quick fires.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: What do you remember? Is your favourite lecture you’ve ever been to?

Patric Saraby: My favourite [01:27:10] lecture was actually I went to a Perrier lecture, so I absolutely [01:27:15] loved Perrier at university in Barcelona. It was the [01:27:20] most beautiful subjects of dentistry for me because Perrier is.

Payman Langroudi: What [01:27:25] do you like about it?

Patric Saraby: Perrier is pure communication with a patient, educating [01:27:30] a patient because, okay, the patient comes in, you do the deep root scaling, [01:27:35] whatever steps you need to do for oral hygiene. But after that it’s how [01:27:40] well you’ve touched the patient. Motivate them motivated the patient [01:27:45] to maintain their health. And sometimes a patient will come back and you’ll you’ll [01:27:50] see that you’ve not managed to break through. And it might be hopeless, and it might make [01:27:55] you sad because you spend a lot of time on the case and you really tried to to get them to get [01:28:00] into the right habits. But I feel like if you succeed in [01:28:05] Perrier, it’s really rewarding because you have someone whose teeth might be at the point [01:28:10] of falling out. And then over time, you manage to recuperate that and you build [01:28:15] a real good relationship with that patient as well. Um, which it’s probably [01:28:20] easier to do than in other branches of dentistry. Um, I also had a really [01:28:25] good professor, so he was called Doctor Rosengart, and he’s [01:28:30] one of the best periodontist in Europe, I think. And he came into the lecture, and [01:28:35] so I didn’t speak great Spanish in third year.

Patric Saraby: And he started doing the lecture in English. And [01:28:40] so I used to go to lectures when I didn’t speak Spanish. And I’d sit there, I’d be like, [01:28:45] oh, here we go again. Just they’re going to be speaking super fast [01:28:50] and like they’re passionate. So they get caught up, they start speaking fast or slow or fast slow. It’s [01:28:55] really hard to keep up. And he starts speaking in English. And one of the Spanish kids said, um, Well, [01:29:00] why are we not doing this lecture in Spanish? And he went, well, it’s, uh, International University. [01:29:05] I could do Portuguese if you like. I just started laughing and immediately I just sat forward like [01:29:10] he’s got charisma. And he started explaining Perrier, and I just. I [01:29:15] loved it, not only the fact that I could understand it, but the way he was explaining it. Um, and it [01:29:20] was the first lecture where I watched the lecture and I thought I’d, [01:29:25] I’d love to be in his position like a professor teaching kids in different languages, [01:29:30] uh, with such confidence as well.

Payman Langroudi: Do you liked him more than the particular [01:29:35] lecture he was giving was his aura. He was giving.

Patric Saraby: His aura was. It was [01:29:40] definitely special. But also he was so composed in another language. [01:29:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. Like and that, that that’s really something.

Payman Langroudi: Those top guys. English. They have to. Yeah. Yeah. [01:29:50] Because he’s getting all over the world. Yeah. Yeah. Lecturing right.

Patric Saraby: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: It is. It is always interesting to see that when, [01:29:55] when a top guy comes along from Brazil or whatever. And his English is so amazing. [01:30:00] And you think that’s a that’s not his first language?

Patric Saraby: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: No, absolutely it is. It is nice to see that you agree. [01:30:05]

Patric Saraby: And it’s it’s just it’s charisma. Like if you if you, if you can captivate [01:30:10] the audience that you’re speaking to, some people can some people can’t. But if you [01:30:15] can do it, then you get everyone suddenly leaning forward in the seat, holding [01:30:20] on to every word. Um, and it takes a special kind of teacher, [01:30:25] let’s say, to do that.

Payman Langroudi: You’re fascinated by that, huh? But the moment of touching the audience. [01:30:30]

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No, I think it’s interesting. I think it’s important, um, not only an audience, [01:30:35] the patient as well. Yeah, like your case. Acceptance. [01:30:40] It’s only going to be really high if you can capture the patient’s attention. [01:30:45] Um, if if you’re giving a monotonous explanation, they’re [01:30:50] not going to want to continue the treatment or maybe even do a bit more [01:30:55] on top of the treatment plan that you’ve suggested. Like if you’re doing composite [01:31:00] fillings for a patient, um, you’ve restore all the teeth that have decay. [01:31:05] And then the patient says, well, I’ve seen the teeth that you’ve done. How about we’ve changed my [01:31:10] old amalgam fillings out? But that means that you’ve done a good job of explaining, of showing [01:31:15] the patient the difference before and after, um, and that they [01:31:20] trust you as well. So they’re literally saying, take my money and change these amalgam fillings. [01:31:25] Um, so it’s not only on, um, the scale of an audience, [01:31:30] this can be just one person as well, but you have to be [01:31:35] engaging, uh, charismatic and confident, like you said about [01:31:40] your kids, the confidence. That’s that’s a real big thing in life. Because [01:31:45] you can strive to be good at anything if you have confidence. True. Another [01:31:50] thing about languages is that some people might not want to learn a new language because [01:31:55] they’re not confident about saying a word wrong or getting corrected in front of her. I’m like, yeah, [01:32:00] well, it’s a real thing.

Payman Langroudi: I could almost speak French, but I never do. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Well, [01:32:05] that’s the thing, because some people think that I’m gonna go and speak and they’re [01:32:10] going to correct me, and I’m going to look like a fool in front of everyone. But my experience actually in Spain [01:32:15] was that if I did try, people.

Payman Langroudi: Love it.

Patric Saraby: When it would correct me, but they would love.

Payman Langroudi: It. People in Spain love it when you [01:32:20] try to speak Spanish. Yeah, they really do. I think more than the next country, you know, like for some [01:32:25] reason they just love it.

Patric Saraby: It’s fair play. Like you’re just trying. So. And [01:32:30] it’s the same thing. If they spoke English, I would never try and embarrass them or anything. Like if [01:32:35] they made a mistake and we’re in private, then I just. I try and help them with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If we’re in a crowd, I wouldn’t do [01:32:40] that. But I think like he’s he’s speaking English right now and like, fair play to you. Yeah. So if [01:32:45] you, if you’re outside of your comfort box then I think it’s, it’s very rude if someone [01:32:50] tries to knock you down off your perch. So Uh, sure. Yeah. No, I do love that. [01:32:55]

Payman Langroudi: So out of the four languages, which, how would you rate them? As far as not [01:33:00] not like how good you are is English. Are you best at English?

Patric Saraby: I’m better. [01:33:05] Yeah. Yeah. By far. English is the.

Payman Langroudi: Best. English number.

Patric Saraby: One. Do you know, I feel [01:33:10] like I’m good at Farsi, but I can’t read or write.

Payman Langroudi: Um, I read or [01:33:15] write like a six year old.

Patric Saraby: Can’t read. All right, I’ll be honest.

Payman Langroudi: I got one so soon? I think number two.

Patric Saraby: Spanish might [01:33:20] be two. And my Spanish friends are going to laugh at.

Payman Langroudi: That.

Patric Saraby: Because they’re gonna be like, this guy doesn’t [01:33:25] have a clue, but.

Payman Langroudi: We’re gonna throw Catalan in as well. Yeah.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: No Swedish [01:33:30] or Farsi.

Patric Saraby: After, I think Farsi after Farsi speaking. Why is it [01:33:35] second? But overall, because of the reading, I’m gonna have to put it third. Yeah, Swedish [01:33:40] would be fourth and Catalan fifth. Catalan is fifth by, but Swedish [01:33:45] as well because I left when I was six. So I also have the vocabulary of a six [01:33:50] year old like, um, but it’s enough to get around. Like I went to Sweden to do my [01:33:55] passport, uh, last year, and I was able to navigate myself with the Swedish of a six year [01:34:00] old. So it’s okay. And there’s not that many Swedish people in the world. So that’s [01:34:05] it’s not the end of the world. But, um. Yeah. No, my parents are going to be surprised by that [01:34:10] ranking. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Final questions then. Fantasy [01:34:15] dinner party. Oh. Three guests.

Patric Saraby: Wow.

Payman Langroudi: Dead or alive? [01:34:20]

Patric Saraby: Dead or alive.

Payman Langroudi: Who would you have?

Patric Saraby: So the first one might [01:34:25] surprise you, but I’m actually going to go for Freddie Mercury. I think Freddie [01:34:30] Mercury is just an enigma. I loved him when I was younger. Well, he was dead, but [01:34:35] I’d watch Freddie Mercury on YouTube. I’d listen to his music. And then I watched [01:34:40] that, uh, the film that came out, Bohemian Rhapsody. And I was actually crying in the film because [01:34:45] it just came across as the most confident And guy ever.

Payman Langroudi: The [01:34:50] actor played it very well.

Patric Saraby: He played.

[TRANSITION]: Amazing, but.

Patric Saraby: He didn’t care what [01:34:55] anyone thought. And I think that’s quite important. Not in the sense of like, [01:35:00] do whatever you want. Don’t care what anyone thinks, but you should just be you. Mhm. And [01:35:05] if people accept you as you then they accept you as you. And if they don’t then don’t worry about [01:35:10] it. Like that’s not in your hands. Don’t worry about it. And Freddie [01:35:15] Mercury was just this guy. Like obviously he.

Payman Langroudi: Was different than.

[TRANSITION]: Homosexual. [01:35:20] He just didn’t care.

Patric Saraby: He’s different in that time as well. Came out such a good singer. [01:35:25] And you’ve got. He makes this music that people [01:35:30] tell him. Don’t make that music. It’s not going to work. Yeah, yeah. Bohemian Rhapsody, for example. They told him [01:35:35] never going to work. No one’s going to listen to seven minutes on the radio. Yeah. And he puts [01:35:40] out all this music and everyone’s loving it just because he. He backed [01:35:45] himself. He had that confidence to say that I know better than that. These guys who are the experts [01:35:50] from geniuses?

Payman Langroudi: I mean, you know, one of them.

Patric Saraby: 1 in.

[TRANSITION]: 1,000,000.

Payman Langroudi: That’s your that’s your [01:35:55] first.

Patric Saraby: That’s why he gets invited to the dinner.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I like that.

Patric Saraby: Um, the [01:36:00] second, uh, people, I mean, might not know [01:36:05] this, but I’d actually invite the last Shah of Iran.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, yeah.

Patric Saraby: I think the last Shah of Iran [01:36:10] was very educated, a very classy person, [01:36:15] and a very well thought person. He wouldn’t speak without thinking first. I don’t know him, but I’ve seen [01:36:20] interviews of him speaking English like it was his first language. I’ve seen him speaking French [01:36:25] like it was his first language. Um, every time I’ve seen [01:36:30] anything of him, it’s just he has this real class.

Payman Langroudi: You know, the interesting [01:36:35] thing that, you know, you see it on Instagram or something. But back then, there [01:36:40] wasn’t. Right. I showed my parents and they said, oh, we’ve never seen, like, [01:36:45] all of this stuff? Yeah, because back then. Either you caught it on the TV if it was [01:36:50] on or you didn’t, and that was that.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. No. Absolutely, absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: But that’s not the first [01:36:55] time he’s been invited. Um, and the third guess.

Patric Saraby: The third. See, [01:37:00] I’m not actually going to go for a celebrity. I’m going to go for my grandma, who passed away [01:37:05] when I was in fourth year.

Payman Langroudi: Of dental.

Patric Saraby: School. Yeah, because, um, my grandma really wanted to be [01:37:10] a doctor. Then she wasn’t able to because certain things happened in Iran. Um, [01:37:15] and I just remember telling her when I was younger, like, I’m going to do it and I’m going to I [01:37:20] this is another thing. I was like, I’m going to do the graduation speech and you’re going to be there. Oh, so she passed away, [01:37:25] and, uh, I was actually in the middle of exams, so I couldn’t really I couldn’t really take it [01:37:30] in properly. I just remember I was really upset, but I couldn’t take it in. But then I [01:37:35] feel like when the time passed, I just had this real fire inside. Like, it was just. [01:37:40] I was real angry and that that actually helped me through [01:37:45] that period. That really helped me because everything I did, I thought, well, I’m doing it [01:37:50] and she’s watching and I’m going to fulfil the dream like no prior. There was no questions asked. So [01:37:55] when I went into that final year of uni, it was just a matter of getting my head down and I’m gonna absolutely [01:38:00] tear through this year. Um, and she will be there that day. She’ll be watching. And [01:38:05] I mentioned her in the graduation speech, and I said, it’s not just my grandma.

Patric Saraby: Five [01:38:10] years is a long period of time. And there was a lot of my companions [01:38:15] and, uh, colleagues who had also lost people. So I said, this is this [01:38:20] is for all of them as well. All the people that you’ve obviously lost over this five years, especially [01:38:25] the ones that we moved away from our countries to a different country. So we weren’t able to see our families. [01:38:30] I said, well, don’t worry, because they’re watching. And it’s [01:38:35] important to, to to remember that and remember them on a big day like [01:38:40] that for there for all the families involved. Um, but yeah. No, that’s, [01:38:45] uh, if that’s another thing, like, one of the most important things [01:38:50] to always remember is kindness. And that’s, that’s one [01:38:55] thing I wanted people to feel after I finished my speech. Um, [01:39:00] and, uh, I felt like that moment where I included everyone’s families, [01:39:05] people quite enjoyed that. And I enjoyed it myself as well, actually. Um, but, [01:39:10] yeah. No. Like the family. Not not just in Spain, in Iran and [01:39:15] all sort of Mediterranean countries is so important. Um, and I was happy to [01:39:20] be able to give that send-off to my grandma and also to their families who [01:39:25] they’d lost.

Payman Langroudi: Was that your mum’s mum or your.

Patric Saraby: It’s my dad’s mum. Yeah. [01:39:30]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. So mum’s parents were the ones who were.

Patric Saraby: Yeah. My mum’s parents were there. Uh, and uh, they had [01:39:35] a really good time. That’s beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. But I was thinking of obviously my other grandma [01:39:40] as well, and she would have loved it too. But that’s life, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: So [01:39:45] that’s beautiful man. I say we end it on that.

Patric Saraby: Yeah, well, it was an absolute pleasure. Thank you for. [01:39:50]

Payman Langroudi: Having me so much, man. Thanks for coming.

Patric Saraby: All the way. I’ve really enjoyed myself here. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This [01:39:55] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go [01:40:00] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:40:05] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:40:10] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. [01:40:15] And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what [01:40:20] we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. [01:40:25]

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