[VOICE]: This is [00:00:05] Dental Leaders the podcast where you get to go [00:00:10] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:15] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:00:20]

Prav Solanki: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Dental Leaders podcast. [00:00:25] On this particular episode, we capture a conversation between Kailash Solanki, my [00:00:30] brother, and Dev Patel. Having discussions around how Kiss [00:00:35] Dental has evolved over the last 20 years, this is a fly in the wall conversation [00:00:40] between the two of them that captures the essence of how it all started. [00:00:45] What has happened since and what the future is. [00:00:50] Without further ado, Kailash and Dev.

Dev Patel: I’m [00:00:55] Doctor Dev Patel. I’m the CEO of Dental Beauty Partners. Really excited today to meet with Doctor Kayla [00:01:00] Solanki, one of our key partners up in northwest who has been expanding the Kis dental [00:01:05] brand. And this year is a 25th anniversary. So, okay, um, you’ve obviously [00:01:10] set up this then to over 20 years ago now. Tell me how you first started the first practice.

Kailesh Solanki: And [00:01:15] so from 2005, I was working as a I had just finished, just started [00:01:20] as an associate ship and then Stockport and then just kind of wanted my own thing, really. [00:01:25] And so I found a clinic. Everyone told me not to buy it. So that was like [00:01:30] my, my career, like, let’s buy it then. And um, and so yeah, it was in Flixton, it [00:01:35] was um, just like a little suburb. The main thing that was around that area was [00:01:40] it was great for motorways. There was big motorway right next to the practice, and then it [00:01:45] was right at the Trafford Centre. And for me it was just that one big landmark [00:01:50] that I could say we’re close to this. Um, we’re not right in the city centre. We’ve got loads [00:01:55] of parking and then and come and see us? And so that was my play back then. And it was just [00:02:00] like, that’s kind of how I thought I wanted to do dentistry and not be in a city [00:02:05] centre environment originally, just be good quality dentistry in a suburban [00:02:10] area that everyone can can access. Really.

Dev Patel: And obviously you did it literally a year after or [00:02:15] two years after graduating, which is very early for most young dentists. So why did you take the leap so quickly?

Kailesh Solanki: I mean, [00:02:20] I am I kind of have always, always been into business. So when even when I was a at school, [00:02:25] I kind of helped my dad when he’s kind of sharp. Um, and then, you know, went to university. [00:02:30] I ran a computer business. Um, and so I kind of was that Wayne [00:02:35] Klein wouldn’t say an entrepreneur. That’s not going to work.

Dev Patel: Yeah, definitely.

Kailesh Solanki: Definitely. But I’d say I was just kind of [00:02:40] always wanting to kind of do something, make money somewhere, um, and find where to find what [00:02:45] I was good at and kind of work it. And then dentistry was just that next, that next level for me, [00:02:50] you know, I decided that that was what my career choice was. And so I just wanted to make a [00:02:55] career out of dentistry and make it a business that was viable and provided me. [00:03:00] I suppose the lifestyle. I’m on it. Really? Yeah.

Dev Patel: It’s obviously a big risk, though, and a big investment from [00:03:05] such a young age and going fully private without the guarantee of the NHS. So why did you decide to go fully private? [00:03:10]

Kailesh Solanki: Um, I do like lots of private courses. I’ve done, like all the Paul Tipton courses [00:03:15] and I’ve done lots of kind of courses abroad. And it just kind of [00:03:20] made me realise that, especially dentistry wise, it wasn’t really about going [00:03:25] private or staying in the NHS, it was just providing what I wanted to provide for the patient. And obviously [00:03:30] private dentistry leads itself really easily for me to do that. So when I set my [00:03:35] clinical, it was always going to be this is the this is what we want to provide. These are the [00:03:40] the treatments I want to do. Um, and this is how I want to benefit my patients. [00:03:45] And so ultimately, I couldn’t work in the room of the NHS by doing [00:03:50] that. Yeah. And so for me it was it was a big risk I think, you know, as back a [00:03:55] million quids worth of debt.

Dev Patel: That’s amazing. Yeah, yeah, it’s going to be expensive, right?

Kailesh Solanki: It was it was wasn’t cheap. Yeah. He [00:04:00] bought the clinic. I think it was about half £1 million, probably about half £1 million into a refurb. And [00:04:05] God took it out all on loans and all on kind of, you know, finance [00:04:10] to my eyeballs. Really? Yeah. And and. Yeah. Like your [00:04:15] young guy, you think you’re like, you’re fearless. Like nothing’s going to touch you. And so you [00:04:20] kind of do these things. But I do it again. I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s hard when you’re older and you’ve [00:04:25] got commitments and stuff like that. But back then I didn’t have as much. Um, so if I was [00:04:30] going to lose everything, what was the. What would I lose? Do you know what I mean?

Dev Patel: True entrepreneur man.

Kailesh Solanki: No no no [00:04:35] no. Take those risks like but and and. Yeah. You know, there was some hairy moments. Don’t [00:04:40] get me wrong. You know, moments where I thought, oh, this could go down the pan. Really? Yeah. [00:04:45] Um, but yeah, you know, you know, we’re 20 years on now and and amazing. It’s it’s [00:04:50] all paid off and, you know, took those risks and, and and it’s worked out but but yeah, it’s [00:04:55] it’s been, it’s been ups and downs definitely.

Dev Patel: I can imagine. And obviously you said obviously it’s been 20 [00:05:00] years on then. So what’s the key to longevity for you. I mean how have you kept, you know, so successful [00:05:05] and become one of the best brands in the UK and still one of the best bands in the UK even after 20 years? [00:05:10]

Kailesh Solanki: I think like for me, success is like my team. Um, and I would [00:05:15] say the strongest thing that kiss has got going for it is having a really consistent [00:05:20] long term team. You know, I’ve got members of my team, um, you know, 20 years old, [00:05:25] still young and now and essentially, you know, I’ve still got three, 3 [00:05:30] or 4 team members that have still been with me right from the start. Yeah. Um, and still the people [00:05:35] you can rely on, you know, everything’s great when everything’s great, when the shit hits the fan, it’s really [00:05:40] important to have certain kind of key people that you can say, we need to level up here. [00:05:45] We, you know, we need to knuckle down and we need to ensure that this business is going to do what we needed to do and [00:05:50] to rely on people like, you know, you’re not a lone Ranger, especially as your business grows. [00:05:55] You’ve got to understand that, you know, you have to rely on people. You have to delegate. You have to kind [00:06:00] of understand that it’s not all about me. And, and, and having that ability to, to have [00:06:05] those really key team members and trust them and, and rely upon them is a real key aspect. [00:06:10]

Dev Patel: Definitely. I think we can definitely feel that whenever you come over to kiss and meet the team members, they all like big [00:06:15] family, basically, right? And it’s just even though you’re growing, it still feels the same thing, which is great. What what would you say [00:06:20] has been the most difficult kind of year then? I’m assuming for the first, maybe 2008 was a good, difficult [00:06:25] year for you guys. Was that like, you know, to be honest.

Kailesh Solanki: Yes. No, it actually wasn’t. Oh yeah. So for [00:06:30] us, like I would probably say our initial growth okay. Because you know, it’s easy [00:06:35] now you’re 20 years on and you have a plan. And we open a new clinic and with obviously the [00:06:40] help of, of yourselves and it’s it’s structured, it’s well governed like [00:06:45] we’ve, we’ve tried and tested all these different marketing methods and. Yeah. And so we’ve got it. We’ve [00:06:50] got it. And really I would say we’re pretty solid. You know, you start a new business like that, you [00:06:55] know a little bit wet behind the ears, not really knowing what’s going on. People are coming at you use [00:07:00] us for marketing. Let’s do this. Let’s do that. You kind of look really back then [00:07:05] as well. You didn’t know what worked.

Dev Patel: Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Of course. And so the expenditure to get yourself [00:07:10] out there to, to be a brand, to be visual in an area, [00:07:15] it costs a lot of money. Yeah. And it got to probably about 2000 and I [00:07:20] would say 2007 before the financial crisis. And I remember these bills were coming in [00:07:25] and I was like, this is killing us. Like whatever money we’re making, kind of doing [00:07:30] the dentistry, we’re spending so much to kind of be visual. And [00:07:35] it almost bankrupt us, to be honest. You know, we got to a point where, you know, we were getting [00:07:40] 150 K worth of bills in back then on marketing. [00:07:45] Wow. In a three month period. And you’re scratching your head thinking, [00:07:50] how am I going to afford this? How am I going to pay for this? Um, but also in the same breath, without [00:07:55] that marketing spend, we weren’t getting the influx of the people we needed in. So [00:08:00] we were in a real catch 22 situation, and then it kind of hits over a curve [00:08:05] and then it starts to really self propagate. Yeah. And you can get past that. [00:08:10] You kind of then you’re laughing. You laugh it. And by 2008 to be honest, even [00:08:15] though the financial crisis hit, it was a reasonably strong year for us. And 2009 was. [00:08:20] And then from that point, because everything was self propagating, everything was [00:08:25] working for marketing, more word of mouth was coming through. You know, business takes [00:08:30] time to grow and word of mouth is great. Slope. Yeah. Of course that was now growing. [00:08:35] And so now we’re in 2009, 2010. And I’m purchasing another clinic and [00:08:40] another clinic because we’ve got that brand presence. We’ve got that awareness in [00:08:45] the Greater Manchester in the northwest area. And so for us it was more that [00:08:50] it was more growing. Initially, the initial growth, the speedy [00:08:55] growth that I kind of wanted was what almost kind of finished was really.

Dev Patel: I think it’s uh, it’s, [00:09:00] you know, whether you realise it or not, it’s probably one of the first real brands in the UK. And [00:09:05] back then obviously spend that much money even in this day and age, you know, 20 years on for [00:09:10] marketing costs. And one clinic with 3 or 4 surgeries is a huge risk. Yeah. And people will say you’re [00:09:15] crazy probably at the time. But, you know, it’s, uh, you know, it’s a really, you know, visionary thing to be doing [00:09:20] and that far, far, far ahead of the time. Right. And I think obviously, you know, there was a period where your brother came on board [00:09:25] as well. And obviously he helped with the marketing, how that kind of changed things.

Kailesh Solanki: So to be, to be honest, my brother, [00:09:30] um, obviously, you know, he won’t mind me saying he’s very highly educated, but that’s what the [00:09:35] doctor, you know, discovered something about the heart. I mean, like, [00:09:40] you know, I don’t think we’re actually biological brothers.

Dev Patel: I don’t think so.

Kailesh Solanki: Even on the basis of those [00:09:45] things. But ultimately, you know, he came back from university and he was probably going to live there, [00:09:50] and it would pull him back. Yeah. And I said, like, you’re a smart lad. Yeah. You don’t want [00:09:55] to. Do you want to be a doctor anymore? Yeah. You don’t want to be a lab rat anymore, which is essentially [00:10:00] what he was at university. So I was like, help me do marketing.

Dev Patel: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: I was like, [00:10:05] it’s not rocket science. You figure it out. Yeah. You do a bit of research and then start helping [00:10:10] me. Yeah. I was like, because it is killing me. And that’s why we were spending those real big books. Yeah. [00:10:15] And so we cancelled out our PR agency. [00:10:20] We cancelled loads of things. Practice took over initially just for us. Yeah, [00:10:25] just for kicks. And we trialled loads of different things. And he had some ideas and I had some ideas. We put [00:10:30] it all together, but it was costing us peanuts now. Yeah. Because he was doing it all and then all of a [00:10:35] sudden kiss the brand that said it turned that corner. Everyone started to get to know the brand. And at [00:10:40] that time I was teaching sex. I was going out across the country teaching cerec for Sirona, [00:10:45] and people would say, oh, we love your brand, who does your marketing? And I was like, well, [00:10:50] actually, you know, this guy does it. And it was hard. I didn’t want to say it was my brother. So I was like, this guy [00:10:55] does his thing. Why don’t you go like, see him, you know? He could maybe help you. Yeah. And slowly [00:11:00] that propagated his business and started pushing his business off. Yeah. And and. Yeah, you know, I [00:11:05] think we kind of helped each other, really. But back in 2008, 2009 [00:11:10] and, you know, that’s now obviously created the fresh and he’s got his own business in his [00:11:15] own right. And he’s, you know, just tremendous things out and about in the [00:11:20] dental world and in other worlds as well. And and I think that kind of pushed him [00:11:25] to be the guy he is today. Yeah. But yeah, he I would say pinnacle point [00:11:30] and again kiss Devils history was when he took over that marketing side and allowed [00:11:35] us to work together to really build the business.

Dev Patel: Did you always have the [00:11:40] vision of having more than one practice back when you had Flixton? Obviously I saw maybe a clip of [00:11:45] a video of you saying that one day a dream was having to attend a practice and then in central Manchester, which obviously [00:11:50] is a reality today. But was it always a vision to have loads of practices or three, 2 or 3 or what [00:11:55] was the plan?

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, for me it was when I first settled here. Sentinel, you got to remember, the clinic I bought in Flixton [00:12:00] was called Woodson Circle Family Dental Practice. Yeah. And I got a marketing [00:12:05] agency in to kind of wanted to create this brand. And I got a kiss, actually, from [00:12:10] the letters of my name. And I was messing about with, like, how to call what to [00:12:15] call the clinic. And then we branded it and they actually, if you look at the way stencil is written, it’s actually [00:12:20] written in the same font as the Tony and Guy font.

Dev Patel: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Tony, glad to get my haircut. Yeah. And [00:12:25] so I was looking at all these different brands that were out back then that were strong brands that had [00:12:30] branches, and I wanted to create exactly that, like something that I could. You [00:12:35] can’t take woods in a Woodson’s circle funded dental practice in the second one. Yeah, just not gonna work. Yeah. You know, [00:12:40] but Kiss Dental or whatever that brand was going to be, it would work anywhere. It [00:12:45] wasn’t. It wasn’t linked to an area. And so, yeah, right from the start, [00:12:50] it was my plan to open this, build it, open another one, build [00:12:55] it and grow. Really? Yeah. And obviously for me it was a slow process [00:13:00] because it’s time, energy, money. Personal stuff comes in the mix and you know [00:13:05] and and you do sometimes you have levels of steam or you kind of push forward and go hard, [00:13:10] and then you have levels where you back off and you, you know, you may be sometimes a little bit [00:13:15] like more focus on all the things. But it was always growth, growth, growth. [00:13:20] Yeah. And you know, by the time we got to that third clinic and, and obviously yourselves looked at [00:13:25] us, you know, I think we were a really strong brand with a really solid team. And [00:13:30] I think our only issue really was, was how are we going to grow more now? You [00:13:35] know, when how am I going to grow more? Because I was just spreading myself thin.

[BOTH]: Thinner. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And I think the [00:13:40] benefit with, with coming on board with you guys in dental beauty was, was the [00:13:45] education. And to say, okay, you know, this is how you’re going to need to grow [00:13:50] now.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, you’re not going to be able to carry on using the same model you’ve got because [00:13:55] it’s fine. It works with two, three, maybe even four clinics. You want eight, nine, [00:14:00] ten. You want, you want.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know why a legacy. Really? [00:14:05] Then this is how we’re going to do it.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And I think that was the the real important change that I [00:14:10] saw coming on board.

[BOTH]: Really.

Dev Patel: How do you, um. I mean, looking obviously, you know, in terms of [00:14:15] the growth you’ve had over the last 20 years, do you? Is it your expectations of where you would want [00:14:20] to be now or is it behind? Is it ahead of target?

Kailesh Solanki: Like what I’d probably say if [00:14:25] possible, I would have preferred to be like the number ten mark by now. And if I’m going [00:14:30] man. Yeah, yeah I think mean, like for me, like kisses, a great [00:14:35] brand. I think it’s it’s well marketed now. It’s well designed. We did [00:14:40] a redesign about 2020, and I feel like it looks much more modern now and [00:14:45] much nicer, more kind of fresh feel. Um, but for me, yeah, I feel like [00:14:50] we had a little bit of a slow period. I think 2023, 2024, [00:14:55] um, where we didn’t really heavily grow. But I think it was important because we consolidated [00:15:00] and we, we kind of just made sure all these newer clinics would be built. [00:15:05] We’re doing what they needed to do. Yeah. Which I also appreciate that process.

[BOTH]: Yeah, [00:15:10] yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Um, and now we’ve built very this year. So we’re at number eight, [00:15:15] and I would like to be probably by 2026, probably [00:15:20] like to kind of ten or at the end of 10 to 2026 at least. Um, [00:15:25] with some key key areas that we, we already have in mind.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Um, but yeah, [00:15:30] I feel like the growth is going well. I think every clinic we put in it [00:15:35] works. I’m not having to be heavily a part of it which which is the model. [00:15:40] And that needs to be the model. You know, I don’t want to carry on doing dentistry forever. [00:15:45] I love doing the teeth side of it, but I appreciate to oversee it. [00:15:50] I just can’t go into every clinic and do what I do.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And so I feel like, [00:15:55] can I just take my foot off the pedal in that respect and letting the letting the teams [00:16:00] do it and make, you know, make the money, you know, create the environment, [00:16:05] create that, that culture in each clinic. Um, and I feel it’s [00:16:10] working at the moment and guiding them and all the clinicians that we put in as partners, they understand [00:16:15] me, they understand what I expect and understand what Kiss has been for me up to now. [00:16:20] And I feel that they kind of take all that on board and then and then bring it into that clinic. So when I [00:16:25] go into those clinics, I do still feel that warmth, that that happiness, the, you know, the [00:16:30] staff being reasonably happy. You know, never going to get everyone happy. 100% of the time. [00:16:35] Yeah. But you do feel the warmth when you go into even the newer clinics, which I’m super happy about.

Dev Patel: That’s the most important [00:16:40] thing. I mean, obviously I’ve been through the same journey of being a clinician and having to step back and not do clinical. [00:16:45] And I think it’s it’s always a kind of a battle between working on the business and working in the business. [00:16:50] And clinically, you want to work with patients as a fun part of what we all enjoy doing. But eventually it gets to the point where actually [00:16:55] I can’t keep doing the best for the rest of the team if I’m working clinically, doing, you know, X, Y, and Z every day. Right. [00:17:00] So it’s a tough, tough one to battle.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, it’s a super struggle. And because I like doing the teeth.

[BOTH]: Bit.

Kailesh Solanki: It’s [00:17:05] harder for me. I mean I mean, I’m not saying that you did it, by the way. No disrespect. [00:17:10]

[BOTH]: Good for you. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: But I just think it’s like, uh. It’s because I’ve [00:17:15] done it for so long.

[BOTH]: Yeah. It’s like it’s it’s a part of that. Yeah. It’s like.

Dev Patel: It’s easier.

Kailesh Solanki: It’s easy. I love sitting [00:17:20] in there and just cracking on and doing a set of veneers or whatever it is and, and, and, and on Kingdom [00:17:25] Castle at that point.

[BOTH]: Yeah, I mean Yeah. Uh.

Kailesh Solanki: Nothing fazes me. Um, [00:17:30] but but. Yeah, you are right. I’ve. I’ve had to step back. Um, even though I’m doing quite a bit of [00:17:35] clinical now, I think my master plan probably in the next coming, coming years is, is to lay off a [00:17:40] bit more clinical each, each year and really focus on cases and maybe speed that [00:17:45] growth up.

[BOTH]: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Being like you are more hands on with how [00:17:50] that business runs as opposed to running in the business. I think that’s [00:17:55] where you see the difference. That’s where you see like the difference. And I can see it [00:18:00] and I’m running out of time.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: If I’m being brutally honest, you know, I’m, I’m doing [00:18:05] bits on my laptop and sending emails like, in between patients.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: It’s just.

[BOTH]: Not counted. [00:18:10] Yeah. It’s not.

Kailesh Solanki: Productive. So. So yeah, I think that’s probably going to be the next step. [00:18:15]

Dev Patel: No. Great. I think it’s, uh, it’s part of a natural transition anyway. Kind of as you kind of grow, especially [00:18:20] after you get 8 or 9, ten clinics, you physically can’t, you know, do both of them at the same time. And even though it’s easier [00:18:25] and more comfortable for us to see patients, and actually you’ve got your, you know, you’ve got one person to manage, you’ve got your patient and obviously a [00:18:30] nurse, and that’s it really. Yeah. So you start managing the whole teams and you have to start getting involved with all the other stuff. Right. Which is outside of our [00:18:35] comfort zone, isn’t it. Really. Yeah.

[BOTH]: Of course.

Dev Patel: It’s easier to just do what we do.

[BOTH]: Better.

Kailesh Solanki: About you. Insane. [00:18:40] Okay, this is happening. That’s happening. And I’m thinking. I just want.

[BOTH]: To see my patient.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, actually, I mean, this is killing [00:18:45] me off, but you’re right, you know, to be a leader. Yeah, you’ve got to [00:18:50] go lead, haven’t you? And ultimately, like, I feel like, you know, there’s been [00:18:55] times as well. And and that’s why, you know, having this conversation with you is really important because there’s [00:19:00] been times in the last coming couple, I probably say in the last year where I haven’t led [00:19:05] as much as I wanted to, just because I’m so in the tools and and you [00:19:10] feel it then because and you, you speak to staff and I speak to the staff still now a lot and [00:19:15] they’ll say, okay, this happened and this happened and this happened. I was like, oh, why didn’t you tell me, you know? And [00:19:20] they’re a bit like, well, you know, you’re busy. And I was like, I know, but I kind of really need to know these things.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Because I [00:19:25] can’t I can’t help if I don’t know.

[BOTH]: Yeah. You know. So.

Dev Patel: No, it’s a tough one, I think. [00:19:30] Um, but when I got a super strength, I actually from outside anyway, is finding talent [00:19:35] kind of guiding them and mentoring them and train them up. Right. And I think that skill set is very unique. [00:19:40] Dentistry. I know you’re very good dentistry, but I’m not saying not like anyone can do it. Um, whether it [00:19:45] be fast or slow, they can do it eventually. And it’s something that’s that we can always get. But one of your [00:19:50] very unique talents is actually building a brand. By building a team around you that all can do basically what you do [00:19:55] to a good level. So I think working that super strength and kind of pushing more than that would be probably better [00:20:00] for the brand, for the company.

[BOTH]: Going forward, right?

Kailesh Solanki: My favourite thing is, is like the BT scheme.

Dev Patel: That’s amazing, [00:20:05] isn’t it?

Kailesh Solanki: You know, I believe like having this BT scheme and we’ve had it for like nearly [00:20:10] seven years now and the amount of clinicians that come through it. And you’re right, you know, we look at some [00:20:15] of our really kind of lead clinicians that are now part owners of other clinics. We’ve [00:20:20] got course got Nabeel. And, you know, these guys started as vets. Yeah. [00:20:25] You know, with us and and the quality of what they produce. Some of these guys produced better quality [00:20:30] work than me, which I’m super proud of and super happy about, because it’s not about [00:20:35] me. Yeah, it’s about like using that guidance to making the best dentist they can be. Yeah. [00:20:40] And also, you know, making the best businessmen, that business people that can be. Because dentistry is a business. [00:20:45]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And, you know, I feel like learning both or having both hats allows [00:20:50] me to really educate these guys on both aspects of dentistry. And then then it’s nice, [00:20:55] isn’t it? Because then we get another partner and we can put someone in another clip that we trust, and [00:21:00] we know that they’re going to look after our patients, but they’re also going to look out after the PNL, and they’re going to make sure [00:21:05] it’s profitable. And all the things that has to be is, you know.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:21:10]

Kailesh Solanki: So, you know, I genuinely believe, like the vet scheme has been super great for me. [00:21:15] It’s been allowed me to keep fresh, keep young, keep understanding dentistry so I can talk [00:21:20] to them about.

[BOTH]: It.

Kailesh Solanki: But then also the business side as.

[BOTH]: Well.

Dev Patel: Just out of interest, I’ve actually asked this [00:21:25] before, but with the partner model. Um, did you have that in mind before we did a partnership together, that you [00:21:30] would actually have partners and put them in a new clinics, or was that something that we kind of like, you know, kind of made [00:21:35] up ourselves together when we did a partnership? I think it’s quite different model, isn’t it? No one does it really. You know, in the UK [00:21:40] generally.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: It is a different model. And, and the reason I initially did it, to [00:21:45] be honest with you, it was that was we were growing clinics. We’d gone to the three clinics and [00:21:50] obviously I’m not there all the time. Um, even when I was a part of Dental Beauty.

[BOTH]: So [00:21:55] yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Having these two that understood exactly how I wanted things to be done [00:22:00] and they then ran these things and, you know, you’re in this situation where now I [00:22:05] might be off for a week, but you’re my lead clinician there, and you’re my lead clinician there. And [00:22:10] I can trust you guys because I know it’s going to be taken care of. And then as these boots grew. [00:22:15] Yeah, 100%, you know I want to join a clinic. We can do a clinic together. [00:22:20] Yeah. You know, when was it, like, going to be a partnership, exact model that you then [00:22:25] set up and we kind of discuss? Probably not. Possibly not. It might have been. I’ll put you in as a lead clinician. [00:22:30] I’ll give you a small percentage of the business, but you help run it with me.

[BOTH]: Yeah, sure.

Kailesh Solanki: It could have been that.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:35]

Kailesh Solanki: That was probably more in.

[BOTH]: My head. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And to give them a larger piece of the pie, which is what we do now. [00:22:40] Yeah. And what they have like, obviously a lot more incentive in and a lot more incentive out. [00:22:45] I feel works even better.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, I feel like the model is really fair on everyone. [00:22:50] You know, it’s a fair of my associate who has given me lots of time and energy over the years, [00:22:55] and I want to reward them, and I want the business to reward them.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And obviously, we want them to stay.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:23:00]

Kailesh Solanki: And so, you know, it ticks all the boxes I think. So I feel like the model we’ve got now [00:23:05] where we we work it, we give them like that high percentage. They [00:23:10] they nurture that place is is definitely a winner.

[BOTH]: Good.

Dev Patel: I think it’s, uh, [00:23:15] it’s quite clear as well. You know, there’s been over the years, probably 20 years, you know, some high end brands [00:23:20] that have been kind of like, you know, up there with kiss and they’ve kind of come and gone and some of them still there, but none of them really [00:23:25] gone out past the 3 or 4 sites. They’ve all kind of plateaued there because of the fact it’s always been about the original [00:23:30] founder being the only person involved and never having that extra kind of next step of how to get to eight to [00:23:35] 10 or 12 afterwards. So I think you’re breaking that boundary, you know, in terms of the high end brands in the UK, which is great, [00:23:40] but the model obviously works. And I’m glad that all the culture and all the things that you wanted are still there [00:23:45] in all the clinics and the patients now, you’ve now treating double the amount of patients you did five years ago or three.

[BOTH]: Years. [00:23:50]

Dev Patel: Ago, right. So you’re actually helping more people get their smiles back, which is obviously the whole point of kiss, right?

[BOTH]: So yeah, of course it’s great [00:23:55] for us.

Kailesh Solanki: It’s amazing. Like, you know, and for me personally, it’s just nice to go to different [00:24:00] towns and see your brand there and see like it’s growing and also still gain keep [00:24:05] that reputation. Um, and that’s what the scheme is for me. It’s a, [00:24:10] it’s, you know, and the old kind of analogy Like, you look at, like football clubs and I’m [00:24:15] not even into football.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You looked at like what Alex Ferguson did with all the young kids, [00:24:20] and he grew them from the young. They all they played in these like [00:24:25] different foundations, came up to the top team. And then he’d nurture these kids [00:24:30] to be those players.

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And like, that’s kind of like what? And stay with the club.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know [00:24:35] what I mean? And that’s kind of like, that’s my. That was my vision in my head. Like, I want to make sure these guys understand [00:24:40] exactly how this is exactly how people should be treated. Yeah. You know, how patient should [00:24:45] be respected, what type of treatments and what quality is all about. And then hopefully [00:24:50] capture that and go right, do it over there.

[BOTH]: Yeah yeah yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: With [00:24:55] this brand. And then if you can do that and you can just grow that way, you’re [00:25:00] never reducing quality. You’re always just growing something that everyone is sustainable. [00:25:05]

[BOTH]: Yeah. And it’s scalable.

Dev Patel: And obviously you’ve been focusing more on the North West region for now, which has [00:25:10] got Liverpool now, which is the first one I have outside the Manchester area. What’s next? Terms of like, you know, places [00:25:15] that you want to ideally get to.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: For us I feel like we’ve done a lot of Cheshire, [00:25:20] which has been great, but it’s been it’s been a slower build, I feel. Um, you [00:25:25] know, we did Manchester in our Manchester. It was, was booming and it always is very, very busy. Um, [00:25:30] and our Liverpool site has worked really well. So I feel like for us now I would [00:25:35] want to do more cities.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And so, you know, our next step I would like to go [00:25:40] maybe over the pond and go to maybe Sheffield or Leeds would be great for us, I believe. Um, [00:25:45] and then like more into kind of even like the Lancashire side. And so I know we’ve [00:25:50] done bury but we could potentially do somewhere like, you know a bit further [00:25:55] along like Chester or Preston, a bigger city or um, you know, [00:26:00] even even going across to like places like, I don’t know, like even [00:26:05] further up like the, like Lancaster and the Lake District where we get a lot of patients from the Columbia [00:26:10] side. Oh, wow. Um, and so for them to travel all the way here, there’s [00:26:15] gotta be. There’s got to be a want for that kind of treatments and maybe those areas as well. [00:26:20] But yeah, like probably bigger cities for us to start with now. Yeah. Um, where we can really grow. [00:26:25]

Dev Patel: And where do you see yourself? Or what were your aspirations for this in five years time?

Kailesh Solanki: Um, for me, [00:26:30] like probably five years, it would be really nice to be kind of 15 plus clinics. I think.

Dev Patel: It’d [00:26:35] be quite.

Kailesh Solanki: Easy. Yeah. I’m thinking, like, realistic, you know, like like, you know, it costs a lot [00:26:40] to build each clinic and getting the right partners and stuff like that. So obviously we could [00:26:45] grow faster. Of course we could. Yeah. But for me it’s quality. Quality. It’s that [00:26:50] it’s the person that comes in as the partner. You know, I think all of these things make a real big difference. [00:26:55] And some of these growth and the growth back with my existing partners, they might want to have two great [00:27:00] clinics, but for new partners it’s just kind of how that grows. Yeah. And so for me yeah 15 [00:27:05] plus clinics would be amazing. Um, Uh, probably be doing one 1 [00:27:10] to 2 days of dentistry and then the rest of it just making sure these all these clinics [00:27:15] run well. Good. Yeah. Yeah. And yes, I think still being I think the key thing is it’s been my [00:27:20] baby since 2005. Yeah. And so just ensuring that, you know, I’m still a, [00:27:25] a force to be reckoned with in case. And everyone understands like this is how it needs to [00:27:30] be done. And and someone’s there just to ensure like not someone me essentially [00:27:35] there to ensure the quality is still maintained. And yeah the people it’s more and it’s more the people [00:27:40] relationships are still maintained and the staff is still happy. Yeah. Because that’s [00:27:45] as I’ve said, like right at the start where I believe our, our business has grown [00:27:50] and the reason our business has grown because everyone wants it to grow. Yeah. Anyone that worked for me [00:27:55] always wanted kids to grow. Yeah. You know, no one was, like, jealous of the situation or, you [00:28:00] know, like, thinking this isn’t for me or I want to leave here. [00:28:05] You know, everyone was always very, very positive about I want this to do well. Yeah. [00:28:10] And I think when they got a team like that, it’s gonna naturally do well.

Dev Patel: Yeah. For sure. So you’ve obviously got [00:28:15] a very unique scheme, which is basically a trainee dentist training dentist coming up out of university, [00:28:20] then wants to come straight to you rather than doing the traditional PhD scheme under the NHS. Tell me a bit [00:28:25] more about how it works and why do you kind of build it in the first place?

Kailesh Solanki: Okay, so um, I think the main [00:28:30] reason I built it the first place actually was, um, because I was struggling [00:28:35] getting associate’s in that not to my standard. And I think that’s the wrong [00:28:40] way to describe it, because there’s some great associates out there in the world. But you got to appreciate, like, kiss [00:28:45] works in a very specific way. Yeah, yeah. Um, the way we run our free consultations, [00:28:50] the way we kind of, I suppose, design our treatment planning [00:28:55] and and how we treat the patients and that kind of patient journey, you know, and [00:29:00] we’ve, we’ve kind of home that patient journey in over many, many years. It tried to get a streamlined [00:29:05] and also, you know, as I suppose as amazing [00:29:10] for the patient. Really. Yeah, yeah. And then you get an associate in and you say, okay, [00:29:15] like come and work for me. We’re busy. And they’re like, oh, great. And then, then I [00:29:20] might say, well, I don’t want to do a free consultation because I believe my time is really valuable.

Dev Patel: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And I’m trying to [00:29:25] explain saying, well, your time is valuable, but it’s only as valuable as the patient sitting in your chair. Yeah. You know, [00:29:30] and then they’re going. Yeah. But I’ve been to five years of done university. I’ve done all these courses. [00:29:35]

[BOTH]: I’m a very, very.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, I’m scratching my head thinking, you don’t get this.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And because [00:29:40] you don’t get it, it’s really. It’s a really hard sell.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: So dentist and then the dentist comes [00:29:45] in and then I would always play a long game. I always play always have. It’s the way I’ve done [00:29:50] it. And so patient comes in. They might have a problem I might fix that problem. But they might have another 3 to 4 problems. [00:29:55] That problem might fix that. They’ll say, do you know what. No charge. Yeah. Yeah. You just chill. [00:30:00] Come back. You’ve got these other three things to do, but the three things might be, I don’t know, whatever, [00:30:05] but I’ve now got a patient for life because that guy’s trusted me, because I’ve done something [00:30:10] just nice.

[BOTH]: My.

Kailesh Solanki: Person, they’ve come back and I’ve now done [00:30:15] some treatment for them, and now I’ve got a patient again, just kind of building that culture [00:30:20] into a dentist that doesn’t understand and has never done that. No chance.

Dev Patel: Yeah. Bad habits. [00:30:25]

[BOTH]: Right. Bad habits.

Kailesh Solanki: And it’s not even bad habits just the way they are.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, and that’s the way I am. [00:30:30] And but it’s worked and it’s worked in in droves. So essentially that’s [00:30:35] why are we so busy. And so then you get a VPN and it’s completely different because [00:30:40] they have no understanding of what it should be like or what it shouldn’t be. Yeah, sure. So anything a free consultation is [00:30:45] normal.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: They think, you know, looking after that patient and maybe saying that reinvent charge. [00:30:50] I’m not going to charge you today. But you know what? You need a new crowd. So come in. I’m going to do a new crowd for you. And that’s going to be, I [00:30:55] don’t know, seven, eight, £900.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And the patient holds their goals for the ground because [00:31:00] he’s. Oh, he’s such a nice guy. Didn’t even charge me.

[BOTH]: To.

Kailesh Solanki: Put it in today. You know, when those little [00:31:05] things matter. Matter?

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: 100% matter. The patient who signs up [00:31:10] for the 20 grand of treatment plan won’t be paying you £20,000. They’ll begrudge [00:31:15] you if you then put in nominal charging, maybe three quarters of the way through for £100 [00:31:20] or something.

[BOTH]: Yeah, they’re.

Kailesh Solanki: £100 that.

[BOTH]: Way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, and so it’s it’s understanding [00:31:25] patience. It’s understanding kind of like how to look after people. And the scheme [00:31:30] I think does three things. It really, really helps the dentist [00:31:35] understand how to speak, how to communicate with patients [00:31:40] on a really better level. Private dentistry is very different to NHS dentistry. [00:31:45] And everyone knows that. You know, you speak to all dentists and I’m a private dentist. I’m an NHS. [00:31:50]

[BOTH]: Dentist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Well yeah get that. But actually can you just speak to someone.

Dev Patel: The human beings.

Kailesh Solanki: And [00:31:55] they’re human beings. They’re not NHS on the for private rent on the floor. And so [00:32:00] essentially, though, how do you understand the communication of the different [00:32:05] people? Yeah. How can you communicate with everyone from the little old day that comes is 95 [00:32:10] years old? That probably doesn’t want anything doing. You know, she’s only just got a [00:32:15] few more years left and she’s still got a few teeth in the battle. She’s gotta keep on to the 20 year old kid who wants, [00:32:20] like, a full wall to wall seven ears. And how do you have different conversations with these people? So [00:32:25] communication is the key. Really it’s 100% the BT Group. Yeah. I think the other thing [00:32:30] is treatment planning. You know, you may and I may see the [00:32:35] same patient.

Dev Patel: But different.

Kailesh Solanki: Plans, completely different team plans. And why are they different. Yeah yeah yeah. [00:32:40] Which is better I’m not saying any better. Yeah, but what I’m saying is there is a reason why certain things are done [00:32:45] in certain ways. Because of what the patient’s expectations are. Yeah, yeah. And if you get that treatment [00:32:50] quite wrong, you fail the patient. Yeah. And so for me, it’s like understanding [00:32:55] about Out design and smiles, understanding about looking after the patient’s whole [00:33:00] mouth as a full yeah, singular thing as opposed to individual teeth. Dentistry [00:33:05] and like teaching the how to treat upon those cases, you [00:33:10] know. And that’s why my books are so successful because they’ve understood that they’ve understood [00:33:15] the treatment plan inside of it. And so, like, you’re going to factor in, you know, that they can do [00:33:20] the treatment planning, they can communicate with the patients. And then the last thing is [00:33:25] that business side, you know, everyone forgets about, everyone always thinks, well, we shouldn’t talk about money and we [00:33:30] shouldn’t do this. And we dentists, we clinicians, but Christ.

Dev Patel: It’s the selling product. Myself. It’s [00:33:35] like.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, patients, you know, no one’s gonna walk in. I’m gonna say when you need 20 plus [00:33:40] in veneers and they’re gonna walk out, I’m gonna do them and they’re gonna go and pay the bill. [00:33:45] Yeah. This doesn’t happen.

Dev Patel: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Does it happen? So unless you have the conversation and go, it’s [00:33:50] gonna cost you this. This is how you can pay. And this is like the situation. This is where we’re at. [00:33:55] It is gonna fall down.

Dev Patel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And ultimately, they need to understand [00:34:00] those basics of dentistry. Yeah. And then also the basics of why do I charge x [00:34:05] amount for something? Yeah. Do you understand? Do you understand why that person there cost me what this chair [00:34:10] costs me? Do you understand what this is like? I love bills and all the fundamentals. [00:34:15] Which creates the price of the crowd. Yeah. Or creates the price of adventure or whatever [00:34:20] it is?

Dev Patel: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Because sometimes they see this money coming in and they [00:34:25] just think it’s great.

Dev Patel: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: But actually, no longer than that. Now it isn’t amazing. [00:34:30] Yeah. At times. And so they got to appreciate that. And they’ve got to understand that I can’t just, [00:34:35] you know, have that issue where I don’t want to say I don’t want to say it, I don’t want to say it. And I’ll just say a price which is even lower. [00:34:40] Yeah. Because you do that and then you’re like, scratching your head thinking, we’ve made no money. Now you’re killing [00:34:45] me off.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know what I mean? Yeah. And so understanding those basic fundamentals, I [00:34:50] think, is just key. Yeah. And so if you learn all those three aspects, [00:34:55] like you said, the dentist is easy.

Dev Patel: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Any monkey can [00:35:00] do. The dentist. Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. Giving them time. And like you said, the muscle might do it fast. Some [00:35:05] might do it slow, some will be a little bit better than others. Yeah. And quality is one of those things either [00:35:10] beholder and all that kind of stuff. But ultimately it can be done. Yeah, it’s the other four [00:35:15] three fundamentals that no one teaches.

Dev Patel: And how long is the program lasting? So like if I was going [00:35:20] to come to a clinic, I’ve just finished university or to finish my PhD, how’s it work? So is it like a one year, two year for a year?

Kailesh Solanki: So [00:35:25] I generally do a two year program where year one, there’ll be a lot of shadowing.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:35:30]

Kailesh Solanki: And so not just myself but primarily most vets will shadow me a lot. [00:35:35] Um, and then we’ll get them to our other kind of specialist fields. Like if they want to show [00:35:40] an orthodontist, go to an orthodontist, they can shadow doughnut shadow with their dentist. We’ve got a really high [00:35:45] end in the dentist. They can shadow and they can sort of hone their skills on where they want to be. Yeah. So whether [00:35:50] it be general dentistry, cosmetic dentistry, endodontics, prosthodontics. It doesn’t really [00:35:55] matter. Yeah. We’ve got the skill sets in the group that we can shadow. Yeah, but it’s a lot of shadowing year [00:36:00] one with some dentistry and that dentistry will be very simple, but basic dentistry. [00:36:05] Moving on to more cosmetic dentistry as the year progresses. Moving on to them, [00:36:10] doing their own cases, you know, guided.

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And then we get them into year two. [00:36:15] And year two is really then learning how to be an associate. [00:36:20]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah. You know like now guys like, you know, you now gotta have a list of patients. [00:36:25] You’re going to have new patients and want to see how things progress now. Want to [00:36:30] see how busy your book can get. Yeah I want to see how you’re guiding yourself. [00:36:35] Are you pushing yourself on social media? You becoming a clinician that’s going to have their [00:36:40] own view and their own vision and their own kind of patient base. [00:36:45] And so now by year two, it’s still a salaried position. Year one in [00:36:50] year two. But year two. Salary goes up a little bit. And it’s not really about the [00:36:55] salary and the money year on year two.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Because what I’m trying to do is teach you how to do [00:37:00] that. Well, so you get to the end of year two and now you’re fully fledged associate [00:37:05] and the money will speak for itself.

[BOTH]: Yep.

Kailesh Solanki: And I’ve [00:37:10] got no concern about that. Yeah. All my teams do very very well.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: After their [00:37:15] trip is over. And if you ever spoke to any of them, they would. They would say. And you’ve seen the numbers regardless. [00:37:20] Yeah. And so that I’m not too worried about. But as long as the dentist isn’t [00:37:25] worried about it. Yeah it works.

Dev Patel: I think it’s quite a difficult one for most young inventors [00:37:30] these days. Right. Because they happen to essentially give up potentially some not a huge amount of earnings, [00:37:35] but, you know, salary for two years and not getting that, you know, self-employed income if they were doing [00:37:40] their normal associate work. It’s almost like doing a for three years. They do a potentially NHS one and then [00:37:45] doing two more years of you. View, but the benefits of investing themselves is ten times greater. [00:37:50] And I tell you, I’m going to do the same thing. If you’ve got one thing to do the first 3 or 4 years, it’s investing courses in yourself, and [00:37:55] they’ll pay ten times more than anything else you can do in dentistry, right? Rather than trying to work out like, you know, different [00:38:00] percentage of your before you split or your, your day rate or whatever it may be. Um, but some of them just don’t get it [00:38:05] in mind. And I think, right, like, you’ve got to get the right mindset of someone who’s actually willing to invest, willing to learn, and then they’ll just be [00:38:10] flying off to 2 or 3 years I’ve had.

Kailesh Solanki: Honestly, I interview a lot.

Dev Patel: I know, yeah, I.

[BOTH]: Know.

Dev Patel: We mentioned [00:38:15] last night.

Kailesh Solanki: And you know, ones that come in and tell me what they should, but I [00:38:20] should be paying them. And that’s actually my head saying, this is not this is not a negotiation.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:38:25]

Kailesh Solanki: You are going to see value in what we’re going to provide as a group.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And the value [00:38:30] is, is is as again is is very easy to see when you see the likes of course [00:38:35] Nabeel, um, Nelly, Molly.

[BOTH]: Calum.

Kailesh Solanki: Callum, [00:38:40] all of these guys who are earning probably I would [00:38:45] say without talking numbers, easily the top 1% of what [00:38:50] in the country of plenty certain.

Dev Patel: Of any.

[BOTH]: Age?

Kailesh Solanki: At any age. Yeah. You know, regardless of [00:38:55] whether 1 or 2 years out. Yeah. You know, these guys are killing it financially, [00:39:00] but they’re killing it financially because I’ve given them every single tool to ensure the [00:39:05] quality is met.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: They can communicate with the patients and they understand the business.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:39:10]

Kailesh Solanki: And for those three fundamentals essentially is what we teach. And so [00:39:15] when someone comes to me and says, well, it’s a low amount of money and I don’t know if I can do it, [00:39:20] then don’t do it.

[BOTH]: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Fully. Don’t do it. Yeah. Because you’ve got to be fully invested in this. [00:39:25] And for me, it’s. You shouldn’t even think about that salary that [00:39:30] I’m paying you. Yeah. Against what you could earn. Because what you could earn will always be capped. [00:39:35]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Because you won’t have the skill set to go past that cap.

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: That’s true. Yeah. So what I’m [00:39:40] teaching you is to kind of exceed that cap so enormously, like you won’t [00:39:45] even realise. Yeah, but you don’t know what you don’t know.

Dev Patel: I think, though sometimes I don’t [00:39:50] know if you do mention this to, you know, something like dentist, but that same course of what you’re teaching [00:39:55] them, whether it be, you know, a two day ethical selling course or a five day course of implant mentor or whatever may [00:40:00] be all your stuff in teaching them is like doing 5 or 6 one year courses in two years, and that [00:40:05] would have cost them hundreds of thousands of pounds, so that actually the salary they’re getting, plus the savings [00:40:10] they’re making for the actually net net is a huge savings, isn’t it?

[BOTH]: Yes.

Dev Patel: And they’re going to grow ten more [00:40:15] in two years time. Right.

Kailesh Solanki: So you said to me before you said.

[BOTH]: I.

Dev Patel: Wish I had done it that way, if I, if I was, you [00:40:20] know, at that age. But obviously I’m a bit off that now.

Kailesh Solanki: But you said to me at the start like how, how did you start a curse at [00:40:25] such a young age? Yeah, because I did loads of courses. So I did old pole tips and three courses [00:40:30] in over two years as well. I was a bit.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: So, so each one it [00:40:35] was like, you know like 15 grand here, 15 grand there, 15 grand there. So whatever I was doing, [00:40:40] I was just throwing back in courses. I had no money.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: So essentially, like, be that guy. [00:40:45]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And also doing costs is great. It doesn’t teach you any experience. Then you have to [00:40:50] do all those treatments. You need the patience to do them.

[BOTH]: Yeah yeah yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And then do enough of [00:40:55] them to get good at it.

[BOTH]: Yes.

Kailesh Solanki: So it’s a vicious circle. So, like, which bitch do you want? [00:41:00] Do you want me to then be able to look after you to ensure that all this is going to go well [00:41:05] for you? If you have a problem with any of these treatments you want to do. And there I’d [00:41:10] be. Comfort by the.

[BOTH]: Kit.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, yeah, I’m starting you out of things.

Dev Patel: And who else do you get off on?

[BOTH]: And are you getting out upfront? [00:41:15] Yeah. So you get all.

Kailesh Solanki: This wrapped up in one thing and still get.

[BOTH]: Paid? Yeah.

Dev Patel: You [00:41:20] have no pain.

Kailesh Solanki: No pain? No. Well, it’s hard because nowadays [00:41:25] dentistry is deemed as this profession. They go in, they earn big bucks, they see people [00:41:30] like me maybe driving around, and they’re somewhere in that and they’re saying, well, I want to be that guy.

[BOTH]: Yeah, [00:41:35] yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: By the way, this guy has taken 22 years to.

[BOTH]: Get to this. Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Don’t be fooled [00:41:40] by the situation and be fooled by the imagery in this vision, because it’s not [00:41:45] always been like that. Yeah, and there have been tough times and I’ve had to do what [00:41:50] these guys did.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: They don’t see.

[BOTH]: It.

Dev Patel: Um, so tell me, in the last 20 years, [00:41:55] what’s been the biggest kind of hurdle that you have to overcome?

[BOTH]: Okay.

Kailesh Solanki: Um, I suppose [00:42:00] we spoke initially, and I told you, like, when we was growing the business quickly, and [00:42:05] that was quite a hurdle. You know, it was a financial hurdle in which we had to get through [00:42:10] and get past. But even past that hurdle, I think, you know, in 2000 and [00:42:15] sure, it was like 2012. Okay. Um, Christmas came [00:42:20] shut down all the clinics. We had the three clinics by that point. And, and [00:42:25] on Boxing Day, on the day after Boxing Day, I got a phone call [00:42:30] from the alarm company, and they say, and your labs going off in your Flixton clinic. So [00:42:35] it must be, you know, something of nothing. It was. It was quite well secured, the clinic. So [00:42:40] I don’t think it was going to be anything major. So I needed to get in my car, drive down there. I opened the door and steam [00:42:45] hits me. Oh! Whoa. What’s going on? What’s that? And [00:42:50] all the windows. The whole practice was all steamed up. Less weird. So I opened [00:42:55] the door as I walk in. The only way I can describe [00:43:00] it, it’s like a like a tsunami hit the business. And the whole bottom [00:43:05] floor, top floor. All waters coming through all the ceilings. [00:43:10] It was hot water, so it must have been a hot water that had burst, [00:43:15] but the hot water just kept generating. So everything was like [00:43:20] vaporising the computers, the CT scanners, the dental [00:43:25] chairs. It was in every single room of the ground floor. So then we were upstairs to the top [00:43:30] floor. It was a leak that had occurred in the lab that we had currently at the clinic. [00:43:35] This this pipe had burst and it was going over it. So the whole [00:43:40] the top floor wasn’t as bad. It was pretty damaged, but the bottom floor was ruined. And [00:43:45] that’s ruined.

[BOTH]: Ruined.

Kailesh Solanki: Basically you couldn’t you physically, I [00:43:50] would say the business is gone.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: That was our only clinic that I think we would have been done. Oh, [00:43:55] because you couldn’t work in there?

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: It was.

[BOTH]: Gone. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: So obviously [00:44:00] what we’re going to do calls a meeting, um, and get all [00:44:05] my stuff to Manchester. And I said, guys, what a horrendous flood in [00:44:10] Flixton.

[BOTH]: Was this a.

Dev Patel: Boxing Day or is this after Christmas.

Kailesh Solanki: Just after. So this is Boxing Day after [00:44:15] boxing, I found out. Get everyone back on the first, first day of Jan.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And and [00:44:20] I did call this big meeting and at that time, we still have a decent level of staff to three clinics.

[BOTH]: And. [00:44:25]

Kailesh Solanki: So on and so forth, and some really kind of fundamental key staff members. So [00:44:30] everyone comes in, we have this meeting and I say, I don’t know how we’re going to do this, but logistically, [00:44:35] we need to move all our operations to our two existing clinics.

Dev Patel: Altrincham [00:44:40] and City Centre.

Kailesh Solanki: Altrincham City Centre and everyone to start working from there and [00:44:45] need all the books moving, all the patients, changing, making, making the [00:44:50] patients understand what’s going on. I think the clinic will be closed for 3 to 4 months.

[BOTH]: Wow.

Kailesh Solanki: And [00:44:55] so there at that point, I suppose that’s when your team [00:45:00] massively matters. You know, the people that work for you, the people that, like, care about the business. And [00:45:05] everyone really cared and everyone really pulled together and made that work. [00:45:10] And, you know, it was a really tough time for the business. That and probably for a good 3 or [00:45:15] 4 months, everyone was running around. Everyone was like working in in places they didn’t want to work in. Some [00:45:20] people were like changing childcare and all sorts of things were going on, and we were [00:45:25] trying to essentially just make sure this business came in on functioning.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Um, and [00:45:30] it did, and it worked really well. And then we kind of refer to flick, obviously flicks that had [00:45:35] to be completely redone.

[BOTH]: Um, did.

Dev Patel: You? You didn’t rebrand it at that time. Might you just get the same [00:45:40] brand?

Kailesh Solanki: You kept the same brand. You just basically, just as I said, just rebuild the.

[BOTH]: Inside of the business. [00:45:45] Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Um, and yeah, it was it was quite. It [00:45:50] was really sad when it happened. And it was a really happy time when we when everything came [00:45:55] back, went back to normal. Yeah. And you realise the people that are around you were around you and would always [00:46:00] help you kind of situation. Yeah. So it was like it was happy for that. Um, but I would say if [00:46:05] that was probably the biggest disaster.

[BOTH]: Oh, wow.

Kailesh Solanki: I never faced.

[BOTH]: It.

Dev Patel: I mean, just for perspective, [00:46:10] because maybe not everyone knows this, but you went from essentially only 13 chairs to eight, so literally, [00:46:15] like, almost half capacity within the space of, you know.

[BOTH]: Yeah. We had.

Kailesh Solanki: Four chairs.

[BOTH]: In it.

Dev Patel: I’ll get it.

[BOTH]: For.

Kailesh Solanki: Only [00:46:20] a chair for chairs in Manchester and two chairs.

[BOTH]: Here.

Dev Patel: Oh seven head.

[BOTH]: Six [00:46:25] six. Okay.

Kailesh Solanki: Five chairs.

Dev Patel: So you went home? Was half capacity over one week.

Kailesh Solanki: They were [00:46:30] doing.

[BOTH]: That extra late.

Dev Patel: Nights and weekends.

[BOTH]: And all that.

Kailesh Solanki: And and, you know, everyone [00:46:35] really pulled together.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah. What about.

Dev Patel: What about Covid then? Because obviously that’s a kind of similar [00:46:40] situation where like, you know, just shut down one day and next thing you know, the two months to come back together again and you have to rebrand and do that time. [00:46:45]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Dev Patel: What was the thought behind that? Because that was obviously a big, big kind of change.

[BOTH]: When.

Kailesh Solanki: Covid happened. You kind [00:46:50] of you kind of can take stock kind of like anything like you said, you know, you’re working in the [00:46:55] business all the time. You can’t really.

[BOTH]: See.

Kailesh Solanki: The vision. You can’t see your focus. You can’t see outside in. [00:47:00] And so obviously during that time I did and I saw outside in and I was a little bit like, you [00:47:05] know, we look a bit dated and we’re trying to be this brand. [00:47:10] You know, we, we want to we want to grow.

[BOTH]: Mhm.

Kailesh Solanki: And and [00:47:15] it really kind of like sunk home that you know we’ve got time now. [00:47:20] You know we’re not making any money. That’s fine. And but to that [00:47:25] point by 2020 we were pretty cash rich business so he could stomach the loss. Yeah. You [00:47:30] know, the government helped a lot with the furlough. Yeah. We had a few staff members [00:47:35] working. Obviously I wasn’t we weren’t the dentist, weren’t earning any money. But past that, I could structure [00:47:40] the business so it would still tick along.

[BOTH]: That’s good.

Kailesh Solanki: And so then it was just really kind [00:47:45] of understanding what was our next step here. And, you know, as then things started kind [00:47:50] of moving back in and things reopen, you can very much see people [00:47:55] that people’s mindset had changed. They were thinking, oh, I can’t go abroad. [00:48:00] I’m more based here. I’m now in the UK. What things do [00:48:05] I want to get done? What do I want to do? And I care about myself more. I want to get my teeth done. I want to, [00:48:10] you know. People were exercising more. They were outside more, weren’t they? They were kind of thinking. So [00:48:15] for me, it was just like, I understand why we’ve got this boom. [00:48:20] But if we got this boom, let’s now.

[BOTH]: Take a bite out of it.

Kailesh Solanki: Yeah, yeah, take advantage of [00:48:25] it.

[BOTH]: Showcases again. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Rebuild what we had, you know, to a better [00:48:30] standard. And at that point, just to be super transparent and open. [00:48:35] I was looking at selling the business pre-COVID and the sale fell through because [00:48:40] of Covid. And it wasn’t to yourselves. And so that app actually [00:48:45] didn’t want to sell after that. I was like, right, I’m done. That sale went through. It was it [00:48:50] was a touch of fate. And so for me now I’m going to grow this business myself.

[BOTH]: Yeah, [00:48:55] yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, but I’m going to rebrand it and I’m going to make it amazing again. And, you know, we spoke about [00:49:00] at times in business, you’ve got those real bursts of energy where you’re like, I’m gonna do this and [00:49:05] kill it. I’m gonna do everything I want to do. And then there’s times where you kind of just feel a little bit like [00:49:10] down hearted.

[BOTH]: Like.

Kailesh Solanki: Ground down by business. And I think Covid, like, [00:49:15] gave me that spur to go, you know, ground down those miles probably sell in, you know. And then [00:49:20] I dislike burst of energy and a little bit of a rethink. And I was like, I’m going to grow this and [00:49:25] I’m going to do it well and I’m going to rebrand. And that’s why we did the rebrand. And then you [00:49:30] came along and it like changed my mindset again, but in a better way because I [00:49:35] was I was motivated then at.

[BOTH]: Least.

Kailesh Solanki: I think I was selling for all the wrong reasons. The previous. [00:49:40]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And then you came along and I was then wanting to go into something bigger and [00:49:45] better with the right people.

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: It’s just a different mindset.

[BOTH]: Again, no, for sure.

Dev Patel: I think it gets [00:49:50] I mean, I’m sure you’ve had ups and downs over the years, but it gets a bit lonely and it eventually like, you know, you’ve got [00:49:55] three takes. You know, everyone since Chester, they don’t really see what you go through and all the stresses and pains. You know, [00:50:00] sometimes they’ve got much cash, they’ve got good cash. And like, they don’t see that all they see, they get paid and they do their job right. But [00:50:05] it’s it can be lonely. And I think that’s one of the reasons why as a model for partnership, you know, everyone’s [00:50:10] got different experiences. Some have, you know, been there for a long time and some have come in recently for the first practice. But, you [00:50:15] know, you’ve all been through the kind of same journey of running a practice now. And it’s it’s better to be together rather than on your own [00:50:20] and trying to figure out where you are. Right. Right. So, uh. That’s good. Technology has always been one of your passions. [00:50:25] Still is, even though you’re getting a bit older, you know, you’re still a technology expert, I would say. So, you [00:50:30] know, you’re one of the first users and, um, you know, some all the texts over the years. Tell me a bit [00:50:35] about like, you know, one, why you got passionate for dentistry in terms of the technology side of things. And what do you think [00:50:40] is the future for the next 5 or 6 years or ten years for dentistry?

Kailesh Solanki: For me, like tech’s always been something [00:50:45] that I am passionate about because, you know, I think that’s mentioned only around a computer business. [00:50:50] When I was young, I was super into computer, super into just like any, any bit of [00:50:55] tech. And the first person you see some new bit of tech on like Instagram or on some [00:51:00] on TikTok, I’d just.

[BOTH]: Buy it. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Oh it’s crap. You just come to the house and they’re looking, [00:51:05] I think I look.

[BOTH]: Shiny or.

Kailesh Solanki: I just, I’m just so interested.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:51:10]

Kailesh Solanki: And so when it came about, so interested. Like what? I make my own teeth in [00:51:15] a day, like for my patient. Amazing.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And then there’s some realities of it because, you know, [00:51:20] sometimes it’s quality issues and there’s this and none of things improve. And you know, so [00:51:25] for me, like tech now is essentially like what makes this run better.

[BOTH]: Yeah, more [00:51:30] efficient, more.

Kailesh Solanki: Efficient, allows me to reduce quarantines for patients but [00:51:35] allows me to keep quality.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And so yeah, 3D printers [00:51:40] now and scanners and all those kind of basic mod cons that I think a [00:51:45] dental practice should have and to create some restorations in-house to be [00:51:50] able to scan in-house without taking impressions and all these different things. Amazing. [00:51:55] Yeah. You know, dentistry is definitely progressed now with that. And I think people [00:52:00] aren’t doing that. They’re missing a trick.

[BOTH]: Really? Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, but then equally, you [00:52:05] know, I think like moving forward like where’s dentistry going to take us. You know, we hear now of like [00:52:10] robot robotic dentistry, you know, which is becoming you know quite I’m [00:52:15] not saying popular but it’s definitely He created some steam and some some lead clinicians [00:52:20] that we’ve spoken about and now heavily investing in that sort of tech and and [00:52:25] seeing where that’s going to take them.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And I’m not saying these robots are going to replace us.

Dev Patel: No, it’ll [00:52:30] be, I think, more scalable to get the quality higher, because no matter how good we are on your best day or worst [00:52:35] day, there’s probably about millimetres, two minutes of difference, right. And depending on where the implant goes. Whereas if you get a robot doing exactly [00:52:40] the same every single time, we still control it. But it’s the same as the way you look at it. If you look at DaVinci [00:52:45] in terms of, you know, medical kind of surgery, you can be in Australia controlling a machine that’s doing [00:52:50] a surgery in Italy, right? And that’s just, you know, the kind of level of scalability that you can have these days rather [00:52:55] than I always think it’s dentist. Our most important role is to communication and the trust. Right. [00:53:00] If we can do those two things with patients, the rest of it can be done by something else or someone else.

Kailesh Solanki: And I think there’s always [00:53:05] going to be you’re always going to have that niche market of the patient wanting to see a specific [00:53:10] person because they’re an artist.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And, you know, the robot will never take away the artist, right? [00:53:15]

[BOTH]: For sure.

Kailesh Solanki: It’ll I never take away kind of what we what we have in our hearts and what [00:53:20] we what we produce. But ultimately, like you said, certain things, certain [00:53:25] aspects of dentistry, if it is a robotic, robotic [00:53:30] size or whatever you want to call it, if it’s done in that fashion. I just think, like I said, the quality [00:53:35] will always be maintained. And so I don’t think it’s a catch all.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

Kailesh Solanki: I [00:53:40] definitely think dentists will go that way.

[BOTH]: Cool.

Dev Patel: Um, and I think the last question is just [00:53:45] in terms of young dentists. So if you were 20 years ago, what would you be telling [00:53:50] yourself now in terms of recommendations, advice to be doing in this day and age?

Kailesh Solanki: I knew what I knew now. [00:53:55]

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: I think it’s just more, you know, it’s easy, isn’t it, when you get to this point [00:54:00] and you’ve had some ups and downs, you’ve had some issues and some problems and you treat your patients, you probably shouldn’t [00:54:05] OB, you treat patients, you should and all that kind of.

[BOTH]: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And you know we all make mistakes. [00:54:10] Yeah. And so how do you mitigate that. Like how do you reduce that risk, [00:54:15] I suppose, and the advice I would give to young dentists is I’m [00:54:20] not saying it’s primarily me, but find someone like me.

[BOTH]: Yeah. You know. Mentor.

Kailesh Solanki: Have a mentor. [00:54:25] Have someone that you can just bounce ideas off. Showcase treatment plans. [00:54:30] Go through different things. You’ve got an issue. Can you chat to someone you know? Do you [00:54:35] understand what you’re communicating? Yeah. You know, my biggest, I suppose, my [00:54:40] biggest bugbear with my clinician sometimes, [00:54:45] like, talk to me.

[BOTH]: Like.

Kailesh Solanki: If you were to discuss this case with me, I would have just said, actually, maybe [00:54:50] consider doing it like.

[BOTH]: This. Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, because you’ve gone around about it in, like, [00:54:55] a completely, completely wrong way. And, and, you know, and that’s fine for me to say [00:55:00] in a closed room because I’m saying that in front of the patient. I’m not saying that in front of in [00:55:05] to the to the dentist to, to upset them.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Just trying to get them to [00:55:10] understand like that. There’s a right way in the wrong way to do things, and I’ve done a lot the wrong way.

[BOTH]: Yeah, [00:55:15] yeah, yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: Do you know what I mean? And I still sometimes don’t get everything right, but I get the [00:55:20] majority, right? Because I made the mistakes previously. So I’m here to. So you don’t have to.

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:55:25]

Kailesh Solanki: And so the mentorship about scheme, whatever you want to call it is [00:55:30] the key I think to a clinician growing.

[BOTH]: Yeah for sure.

Kailesh Solanki: Like [00:55:35] you said you can go on every course in the world. I did you did, um, learn [00:55:40] from some of the best people. Yeah. And that’s great. And you can take a lot of that home, but [00:55:45] a lot of it is just theory.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And when you’re in the chair and the patients struggle [00:55:50] in and you’re doing what you’re doing, how far does that theory take you?

[BOTH]: Yeah. [00:55:55] Yeah. For sure.

Kailesh Solanki: You know. And the practical aspects of what we do on a day to day basis, I believe are super [00:56:00] important. And how do you negotiate that and how do you improve that? [00:56:05] And so for me my advice find a mental [00:56:10] mentor. Find someone that you that will help you. That will be your comfort blanket that will allow [00:56:15] you to do treatments you want to do in a really controlled environment.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Dev Patel: Now, [00:56:20] I think that’s great advice. And I think it’s a it’s more and more important now where they’re learning less and less at university [00:56:25] level because they’re coming out with one crown experience or maybe one filling. And they say, I’m dentist now, right? And [00:56:30] then you’ve got literally no experience after because you’re just doing kind of, you know, NHS work.

[BOTH]: And all. [00:56:35]

Dev Patel: The stuff, which is not going to help you. So it’s so important right now to get.

[BOTH]: It’s.

Kailesh Solanki: So important. And the other thing that we [00:56:40] forget to mention is everyone’s scared in their own shadow nowadays. Yeah, because of the litigation [00:56:45] issues. And, you know, being a heavily litigated profession, no one wants to do anything. [00:56:50]

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: You know, so they see a patient and they see a tooth and they like scratching their head. And they’re giving [00:56:55] that patient a thousand options for that one, too, because they don’t want to miss an option out because they’ll get litigated. [00:57:00] And then they don’t want to do the treatment because they’ll probably get litigated. And then if it goes wrong, [00:57:05] they’ll get litigated. And even if it goes right in 20 years later, they’ll get this again. So they’re [00:57:10] so scared.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: And you’ve got to. You’ve got to kind of educate the dentist. Like, listen. [00:57:15] We’re here to treat patients.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: The rest is unfortunately, a [00:57:20] good and a bad of what we do.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Kailesh Solanki: But you’re there to treat patients who treat the patient, right? And [00:57:25] 95% of the time, they’ll thank you for it. They’ll trust you and you won’t. [00:57:30] And you’ll keep another patient. So just be a good person. Be ethical. Just treat [00:57:35] people.

Dev Patel: This is not, um, you know, intended in any way. Just words on the spot. But I always say [00:57:40] to everybody in our team, not even just in dentistry, but we’ve been, you know, our shared service centre. Just keep it [00:57:45] stupid and simple, which is kiss. Yeah, that’s literally what it’s about. You just keep it really simple. Don’t [00:57:50] overthink it. Don’t tell the patient a hundred different options for, like, one filling. Like, just keep it simple. Right. And then they’re [00:57:55] human beings that understand it, and that’d be.

[BOTH]: Good for them. What I think you should do.

Dev Patel: Yeah. But I think that’s one of your, [00:58:00] um, really one of your super strengths in terms of making a really complicated treatment plan of, like, implants [00:58:05] and veneers and this and that reason for the patients understand and they get.

[BOTH]: It right.

Kailesh Solanki: And they go, oh yeah that sounds [00:58:10] that I get that. And I said, do you understand what I’m.

[BOTH]: Going to do. Yeah, yeah I do.

Kailesh Solanki: Okay, cool.

[BOTH]: That’s great.

Dev Patel: That’s what [00:58:15] I.

[BOTH]: Tell you anyway. Let’s do.

Dev Patel: It. Cool man. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it man. And yeah thanks.

[VOICE]: This [00:58:20] is Dental Leaders the podcast where [00:58:25] you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:58:30] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:58:35]

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. If you got this far, you must have listened [00:58:40] to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through [00:58:45] and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some [00:58:50] value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing, and [00:58:55] if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so [00:59:00] so so much for listening. Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.