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[VOICE]: This [00:00:35] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:40] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging [00:00:45] leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:50] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:00:55] gives me great pleasure to welcome Alisha Sagar and Natalie onto [00:01:00] the podcast. It’s a new format of podcast. Haven’t even got a name for it. What [00:01:05] should we call it? You guys can. You guys can decide the name. It could be like future. [00:01:10]

Alisha Sagar: Like sidekick. I don’t know something. What do you think? Sidekick?

Payman Langroudi: The. [00:01:15] But the format. What? The format is. What the idea of the format is, is that we get [00:01:20] two young dentists or two young students or whatever, and, um, talk [00:01:25] to them about obviously where they’re at, how they got there, but then also repeat the podcast in [00:01:30] three years time. Talk about hopes and dreams, and then in three years time, see if the hopes and dreams come [00:01:35] true.

Alisha Sagar: Did they really make it?

Payman Langroudi: Did they make it? Did they? And my my thesis is is just by [00:01:40] saying it, you’re going to want to make it more just by putting it down, [00:01:45] making it real. That’s my first thesis. My second thesis is I’m going [00:01:50] to try my best to make things happen for you guys as well, to see, to see whether I can help. So [00:01:55] what should we call it?

Alisha Sagar: Um, I like, did they make it sound quite. [00:02:00] It’s good.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, we can come back at the end.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. By the end [00:02:05] of this, we’re going to have a good a good name. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So you two are best friends from [00:02:10] uni?

Alisha Sagar: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: We are kings.

Alisha Sagar: Yes. Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Actually, you know what we should do? We should rewind [00:02:15] right before you got into dental school. What did you think dental school was going to be like and [00:02:20] how different was it?

Alisha Sagar: Um, I think I kind [00:02:25] of wanted to be a dentist since around high school, like year, year 11 ish [00:02:30] and I follow. So it’s quite funny because at first it was I wanted [00:02:35] to be a lawyer because I thought I was going to be really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally that was the reason. And then I think [00:02:40] I quickly realised that humanities subjects weren’t, you know, I was very strong in them and I [00:02:45] enjoyed sciences more. And I didn’t grow up with the typical Indian parents who were like, you have to be [00:02:50] a doctor, a dentist or a lawyer, otherwise we’re going to disown you. Um, they were very my dad always said to me, [00:02:55] whatever you do, just do what’s going to make you happy. And even if that means you’re a garbage collector, he said [00:03:00] that to me. Um, but funnily enough, he put the idea of being a dentist in my head. So I think there was some [00:03:05] reverse psychology going on there. Um, and it was actually when I, I had orthodontic treatment [00:03:10] when I was younger. And my last appointment, as we were leaving the dental practice, my dad just said to me, have [00:03:15] you ever thought about doing dentistry? And this was sort of in year nine, year ten, when like, you’re kind of starting to [00:03:20] think about what you want to do in your GCSEs. And that kind of stuck with me. And I was like, you know what? I think [00:03:25] I would probably enjoy that because I always used to go into the dental practice looking around, wondering what they were doing. [00:03:30] So that put the initial idea in my head, and I’m the type of person where when I have an idea in my [00:03:35] head, I kind of stick with it until something really puts me off it. So that was the initial, [00:03:40] um, yeah thing that got me into dentistry. And then I did some work experience. [00:03:45] Really, really enjoyed it. Did a about.

Payman Langroudi: Did you enjoy about it? Because I remember doing work experience. [00:03:50] I got to see what the hell was going on. Yeah, I’m sitting there. What was so good about it?

Alisha Sagar: True. I do [00:03:55] think, looking back at it now, I didn’t know what was going on and I probably forgot why I enjoyed it so [00:04:00] much.

Payman Langroudi: Just liked the guy or.

Alisha Sagar: Whatever. I did two weeks of shadowing in Zambia, which is where I [00:04:05] live, and then I did one week in the UK and I just really enjoyed [00:04:10] a lot of the interactions that the dentist had with patients. I really liked that sort of looking [00:04:15] at that rapport that they built and just confidence as well, like seeing a lot of people walk [00:04:20] out feeling a lot more confident in themselves. So that was like a big thing.

Payman Langroudi: You grew up in Zambia?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I grew up in [00:04:25] Zambia, so I was.

Payman Langroudi: There till 18.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. No no, no I was there till my GCSE so [00:04:30] 16 and then I came to the UK, went to boarding school for A-levels. Um, [00:04:35] because education is not very good in Zambia, there’s not a lot of good schools. And so the school that [00:04:40] I was at was okay until GCSE. I had to do a lot of extra tuition, stuff like that. But [00:04:45] A-levels was kind of like not, not going to cut it. Yeah. So that was when yeah, [00:04:50] I came to the UK. So I was here for two years and then stayed on for university. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:04:55] what surprised you the most about Dental Dental school?

Alisha Sagar: Um, I think the people I [00:05:00] think I met a lot of people who are very similar to me. I don’t know if it’s [00:05:05] dentists in general, maybe kings. There was a lot of people who I met in [00:05:10] dental school who had very similar upbringing, very similar values, and I found that difficult when I was growing up, I [00:05:15] didn’t I had just maybe 1 or 2 really good friends, um, at my school in Zambia and then in, in [00:05:20] the UK as well, who have kind of still in touch with, um, but I think when I came to [00:05:25] King’s and, you know, it’s 150 of us, but we all got on really well and I found that [00:05:30] we were all very similar. So I think that was like the biggest thing for me was the people.

Payman Langroudi: Liked it for that reason. [00:05:35]

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I think the people definitely made dental school for me. Over, over.

Payman Langroudi: What about the course itself? [00:05:40] Was it what you expected?

Alisha Sagar: Um, I think first year was a bit of a shock because it [00:05:45] was obviously not. Not dentistry. You’re just learning biomedical sciences and stuff like [00:05:50] that. And, um, I found it quite difficult. I’m not gonna lie. I found first year quite difficult and tough. And I think when you come [00:05:55] out of school where you’ve got the best grades and you’re going into dental school and you’re finding it [00:06:00] hard and you’re surrounded by everyone who’s just as smart or smarter than you. I [00:06:05] think that was also, um, a bit tricky. So I think that was a bit. Yeah. First year in terms of the [00:06:10] course itself, I found quite difficult. I thought we were going to jump in and start doing fillings in first year, [00:06:15] very hands on. Um, but first year was very theory based. Very. I’ve [00:06:20] forgotten everything basically from first year, to put it that way, nothing related to dentistry. So that was [00:06:25] yeah, that was not what I expected in terms of the course. But then from then on it got better when [00:06:30] when Hanson started getting introduced, that was sort of what I saw and imagined dental [00:06:35] school to be like.

Natalie Gabrawi: I think because Covid hit us end of first year as well.

Payman Langroudi: End of your first year, was.

Natalie Gabrawi: It first [00:06:40] year. Yeah. And then yeah, because I think we did our final exams in first year online. [00:06:45]

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. It was in I think we started university in September and then around April [00:06:50] time, we were we were off. We only had like one exam in person, which was our [00:06:55] first summative. Um, and then, yeah, went all of us just got sent home. All [00:07:00] of a sudden.

Natalie Gabrawi: You got sent home with me for a little bit because you couldn’t go back to Zambia. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And that’s when [00:07:05] you got to dental school.

Natalie Gabrawi: So the reason why I wanted to do dentistry, so [00:07:10] slightly different to Alicia, but I grew up in a very medical family, parents [00:07:15] or doctors, and they were like, don’t do medicine. I’ve seen that. I’ve seen them do night shifts, [00:07:20] seen seen how difficult it was for them. They’re like, we don’t want you to do it. But I also grew up with a twin sister [00:07:25] who does the opposite of my parents say, so she did medicine and then. Yeah. And then I was [00:07:30] really self-conscious of my teeth growing up. I had my two front teeth. My brother and sister would call me [00:07:35] Bugs Bunny as a little kid, which as a kid, yeah, it does hit you a little [00:07:40] bit. And then I had braces growing up, had them taken off, and it improved my self-confidence [00:07:45] so much and made me smile. And I think I’m quite known for my smile now. So I do think [00:07:50] that I just want to have that impact on someone else’s life.

Payman Langroudi: And where did you grow up?

Natalie Gabrawi: I grew up in Sheffield. [00:07:55]

Payman Langroudi: Sheffield.

Natalie Gabrawi: Up north.

Payman Langroudi: I was in Sheffield last weekend.

Natalie Gabrawi: No way.

Payman Langroudi: The BSA?

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The sports. [00:08:00]

Natalie Gabrawi: Sports day. Yeah. Yeah. Love, Sheffield. Wouldn’t go back there. But I do do love [00:08:05] it as my hometown. My parents are still.

Payman Langroudi: Why do you think you’re a Southerner now? That’s it. You’re staying down.

Natalie Gabrawi: Here? Yeah. [00:08:10] Down south, people say, oh, you’re northerner. Up north, people say you’re Southerner.

Payman Langroudi: And you want to.

Natalie Gabrawi: Say, I do want [00:08:15] to stay down south eventually. Yeah, just long term. I think my brother’s here, and there’s a lot more [00:08:20] going on in London than in Sheffield. So I’ve just got so used to it being at uni for five years [00:08:25] as well. Yeah. You can’t. London hooks you. You can’t leave. Leave the city once you come. [00:08:30] But yeah I do.

Payman Langroudi: Although both of you weren’t growing up in London, so coming [00:08:35] to London for uni is quite a good idea. But yeah, a lot of people who grow up in London stay in London. I think that’s a mistake. [00:08:40] You know, they did you on that subject. Did you reinvent yourself from [00:08:45] being a school girl to when you arrive from Sheffield to London? Definitely. Did you end up as this [00:08:50] other person? Like, what was the person that.

Natalie Gabrawi: You came out?

Payman Langroudi: Came out in King’s, [00:08:55] I think.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah. Growing up north, I was quite the minority. And then in coming [00:09:00] to London, suddenly everyone’s everyone’s the same. Yeah. And I do think [00:09:05] there’s. You can be yourself more in London. You’re less judged because there’s so many different personalities. And [00:09:10] I think just being at uni in general, you have that space and that freedom. I moved [00:09:15] away from home for the first time, so that was a big thing. I learnt how to cook for myself. Still learning? [00:09:20] Yeah. So yeah, you just you I think you. Yeah, grow to be yourself a bit more.

Payman Langroudi: And you two [00:09:25] are living together now? Yes. But you said during college, during university you [00:09:30] were more with the non dentists and you were with the dentist.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. I didn’t have many [00:09:35] non dentist friends, but Natalie was the one who sort of.

Payman Langroudi: So which kind of groups were you in. Humanities like lawyers and [00:09:40] this.

Natalie Gabrawi: So my accommodation. So my flatmates in first year none of them were dentists [00:09:45] So I had war studies, I had English. I had a few medics as well, and we just got on [00:09:50] really well. I was quite lucky to get on with my flatmates and then became friends with them. I did end up living with [00:09:55] a medic so still in the medical field because of guy’s campus. But [00:10:00] over time I realised that I hang out with dentists more so although I didn’t live with dentists, [00:10:05] I did gravitate towards them a bit more. And now most of my friends are [00:10:10] dentists.

Payman Langroudi: And did either of you ever hang out with non-students?

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh. [00:10:15]

Alisha Sagar: As in, as.

Natalie Gabrawi: In, I have a lot of I’m Egyptian, so I have a lot of Egyptian friends. [00:10:20] And because my twin sister was also in London, I used to hang out with her friends. So in that sense, [00:10:25] yes, I think I hung out with her.

Payman Langroudi: But she was in medical school, right?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, she was in medical school.

Payman Langroudi: Like, for instance, when I was in Cardiff. [00:10:30] Okay, there was the dentist, the medics, there was a dentist. And but then there was the townspeople [00:10:35] who were the coolest. They were the coolest. Yeah. He’s the guy until 6 [00:10:40] a.m. with those cats.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: I know. I don’t think I did. I [00:10:45] think most of my friends were students, but I think also because possibly in first year that’s [00:10:50] when you meet loads of different people. But for us it was like first year was cut short. And I think [00:10:55] that’s why you kind of just ended up being friends with people in your course for majority of the time [00:11:00] as well.

Natalie Gabrawi: It’s very much split. Medics, dentists and then humanities.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, [00:11:05] yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: And things like that.

Payman Langroudi: So you told me before we started. You told me that you, Natalie, [00:11:10] like a restorative. Yes. And has that. Is that something that [00:11:15] you’re both an Ftir now? Yes. Is that something that crystallised for you and Ftir, or did [00:11:20] you like restorative all the way through?

Natalie Gabrawi: I’ve always liked restorative. I’m very artsy, so I [00:11:25] draw a lot of like fine detail drawings of animals. So I’ve always loved the intricacy of [00:11:30] restorative dentistry, always got on really well with composite at uni, and really [00:11:35] like the whole Crown prep side of it, and it wasn’t something that I knew I liked. I just, I happened [00:11:40] to be better at that than I was at things like, yeah, taking teeth out. [00:11:45] So I’ve always wanted to, um, yeah, just become better at that because that’s what I was good at. And then in [00:11:50] foundation year, I realised, yeah, I, I could spend hours doing composites [00:11:55] in Crown Preps all day, but taking the teeth out, I just want to get them in and out as quick as possible. So [00:12:00] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You don’t like blood?

Natalie Gabrawi: I don’t like perse. So I think every time I have [00:12:05] to drain an abscess, I get really excited. Like Alicia shows me that pimple popping videos. I [00:12:10] can’t stand them. Yeah, not a biggest fan.

Payman Langroudi: But surgery [00:12:15] is a concept, like flaps these sort of things.

Natalie Gabrawi: So I’ve done them. I don’t mind doing them, but it just doesn’t [00:12:20] excite me as much as yeah, other parts of teeth, which sounds a bit weird to say out loud, but [00:12:25] yeah, but you.

Payman Langroudi: Alicia.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. Complete opposite, I think. Um, I [00:12:30] so there’s an implant dentist who comes to my practice, uh, once a month. Uh, [00:12:35] so I go shadow him on that day. And I just remember the first time [00:12:40] I got sort of exposure to proper implant dentistry was when I shadowed him, because in university you don’t we don’t get [00:12:45] taught really, other than theory. The theory side of implants, we don’t ever get to see the practical side. [00:12:50] And yeah, I found that really interesting. I find I started to realise quite quickly [00:12:55] in foundation year that I was enjoying oral surgery a lot. Um, yeah, just sectioning [00:13:00] teeth, getting teeth out. I don’t know, I just really enjoyed that. And, um, even at university I enjoyed oral [00:13:05] surgery. Like when we had oral surgery clinics. I would look forward to it a lot more than just our regular clinics [00:13:10] on on floor 21 or 25. And, uh, yeah. And [00:13:15] then I also shadowed tan, my good friend who works at Evo. He well, now he’s gone [00:13:20] to the US, but he was working at Evo Dental, so I went and shadowed him. And they do like full mouth.

Payman Langroudi: How [00:13:25] long did you do that for?

Alisha Sagar: Uh, I only went for a full day just to shadow him. Um, but, yeah, I found [00:13:30] that really, really interesting. And I follow a lot of social media accounts that post about implants, and I just [00:13:35] find that side of things. Yeah. Really interesting, I think.

Payman Langroudi: Is that since you’ve qualified or is it [00:13:40] like before you qualified, you were making decisions?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. No, not in university. I didn’t even have any. [00:13:45] Yeah, because we weren’t exposed to it. So I think that was in university. We were exposed to orthodontics, [00:13:50] fillings, endo. And so I kind of was like maybe, maybe ortho. Um, [00:13:55] and I guess I didn’t maybe push myself to do a lot of stuff outside of university to get that exposure. [00:14:00] I didn’t realise how big it was because at university we don’t get taught it. Um, and then [00:14:05] when I was exposed to it after university in our study days or shadowing the implant dentist, I quickly came [00:14:10] to realise this is something I can see myself doing in the future. And I think similar to what Natalie said, I think. [00:14:15] I think nowadays a lot of people end up doing something that they’re good at. I think [00:14:20] when you’re good at something, you I don’t know what you think about that. You enjoy it then. Yeah. Yeah, [00:14:25] I, I would like to think that hopefully one day I would be good at placing implants and. Yeah. [00:14:30] So I think that’s sort of side of.

Payman Langroudi: My general advice, right. When cats like you say, [00:14:35] what should I do? Yeah. My general advice is to choose something like something.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. [00:14:40]

Payman Langroudi: And notice now that you’ve kind of chosen. Yeah, yeah. You go and shadow Tony [00:14:45] in Ivo Dental. Yeah. And some people the general advice isn’t that general advice is oh [00:14:50] go and do the NHS do see a lot of things. Yeah. And then decide [00:14:55] which one you like. But what you said before about you end up liking whatever you know more about.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. [00:15:00]

Payman Langroudi: Then, um, just pick something. Yeah. Now it’s very different. Those two things you’ve [00:15:05] picked. Yeah. So when you said restorative composite, I mean, what’s going on in my head is [00:15:10] get you onto our mini smile makeover course, push you into it and all of that. Yeah. But, [00:15:15] um, you know, there’s the question of, are you thinking of specialising or [00:15:20] not?

Natalie Gabrawi: I was debating specialising. So I’m doing DCT and restorative dentistry next [00:15:25] year. But before, before then I was like, you can do so many courses. [00:15:30] There’s so many things out there. You can have a special interest rather than a specialist. So that’s more [00:15:35] towards what I’m leaning leaning towards now. But I’ve shadowed Riyaz Khan, [00:15:40] who’s an insane dentist, and he was saying, just do. There’s so many courses out there, there’s [00:15:45] people do PG certs and diplomas for a year, and there’s a lot of topics that you might [00:15:50] not be interested in. So just stick to the ones that you like and things that you want to improve on. [00:15:55] And then you’ll get you’ll as long as you’re always continually learning and doing [00:16:00] things that you’re yeah, that pushes you to be not just a better dentist, but communicator. [00:16:05] Learning the basics of occlusion. That’s something that I really want to get the basics of correct, [00:16:10] and then the rest will come with time.

Payman Langroudi: So one thing I would say is two [00:16:15] things I’d say number one, always discount the fact that [00:16:20] when you ask someone for advice, most people just tell you to do what they did 100%. [00:16:25] Yeah, discount that factor in. Yeah. When someone like Shiraz tells you, yeah, this, [00:16:30] this and this often, it’s because Shiraz did this, this and this. Now we understand why that is. Yeah, because [00:16:35] that’s the process. You understand the best because you went through that process. Yeah. But discount that in. Yeah. [00:16:40] So one thing I would definitely say is don’t rule out specialising because a lot of people do that rule [00:16:45] it out straight away for no reason. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: Because I was going to rule it out and then I wouldn’t. Yeah I was. [00:16:50]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Because you know, let’s let’s start with this. Yeah. If you want to be a referral based [00:16:55] dentist. Yeah. Are you going to refer your mother to a non specialist who says [00:17:00] they’re really good at whatever. Yeah. You by the way I would there’s several I know. Yeah several [00:17:05] I know who are specialist and are better than having a specialisation. Doesn’t mean [00:17:10] much. You know it depends on which one you do. But there is that. Mhm. Um [00:17:15] number two there are certain jobs that only specialists can get. Yeah. And [00:17:20] you know, if you’re that West End sort of orientated person, there are [00:17:25] practices who only hire specialists. Yeah. Um, restoratives are a difficult one though, [00:17:30] because a lot of dentists think they can just do it. And so they don’t refer. Um, [00:17:35] either way though. Whatever you do, it’s going to be hard. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You can [00:17:40] do occlusion courses. You can do spear and course in the US, thousands of pounds in [00:17:45] time and all that. Or you can specialise or you can do whatever, you know, either worthwhile stuff as [00:17:50] you know.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s difficult.

Natalie Gabrawi: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: But yours. Yeah. [00:17:55] Implants.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um my first thing about it is there aren’t [00:18:00] enough women in surgery. Yeah. And so good you know. And [00:18:05] what’s popping in my head is go and shadow someone like Fazeela Khan [00:18:10] Osborne. Do you know her?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. Yeah. Um. Another woman? Implantologist. [00:18:15] Yeah. Like to just see that. You know what? It’s possible. And it’s cool and all that. Because [00:18:20] a lot of women are scared of it, by the way. A lot of dentists are scared of blood. Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: But not at all. [00:18:25] I’m just, like.

Payman Langroudi: A lot of women, for some reason, are scared of it. It’d be good to have more women doing surgery. [00:18:30]

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Uh, but if you pull it off, I mean, right now, it’s the [00:18:35] most profitable thing you can do, right? I mean, all on for all that stuff you saw. [00:18:40] Ivo Dental.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, yeah, that was insane.

Payman Langroudi: Per hour. It’s insane income. Yeah. [00:18:45] And life changing dentistry. So then let’s start. Let’s start. Let’s start dreaming. [00:18:50] Let’s start dreaming.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, yeah. Let’s go on then.

Payman Langroudi: So in three years time, [00:18:55] we’re going to come back to this and we’re going to see how you went. Yeah. Give me two scenarios here. One [00:19:00] like where you hope you’re going to be. Yeah. And one is like [00:19:05] hitting it out of the park. Like like if I could dream really big.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How big your [00:19:10] dreams are. So let’s let’s talk. We’re going to start with work and we’re going to move on to life [00:19:15] as well.

Alisha Sagar: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Workwise. Who wants to go first?

Alisha Sagar: Uh, I don’t yeah, [00:19:20] I can go first. That’s fine.

Payman Langroudi: So three years?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You would have done your DCT. Yes. Which is one year. [00:19:25]

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Starting soon.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Then what do you think?

Alisha Sagar: Okay, [00:19:30] so it’s a really tricky question to answer because I think I just looking at this past year, I’ve already [00:19:35] changed my mind. So I don’t want to close any doors off. But if someone was asking me right now based on what [00:19:40] I’m thinking. So DCT one, I’m doing it in oral surgery and maxfacts at Southampton and [00:19:45] then possibly looking at doing DCT two, I think that would, uh, might be beneficial [00:19:50] as well in oral surgery if I’m going down the speciality route of, of oral surgery, which I [00:19:55] have thought of quite strongly, possibly doing speciality training in oral surgery. And [00:20:00] alongside that. So if we’re looking at three years time, DCT one, DCT two, and [00:20:05] then if I decide to go down the speciality training route, I would be doing hopefully not DCT three, [00:20:10] but in my speciality training if I get in. Um, and then alongside that, having [00:20:15] done it, I would hope to have done an implant, a good implant course out there. I think the difficult thing is I’m deciding which one [00:20:20] to do this so much out there. There’s just courses, there’s masters, and it’s just like, what do you go for? [00:20:25] And I’m trying to figure that out. Speak to people who are doing implants, what they advise. But again, as you said, [00:20:30] everyone I’ve spoken to, it’s just what they’ve done that they’ve advised. So I think it’s kind of coming to a personal decision [00:20:35] as well.

Alisha Sagar: So yeah, three years time hopefully in speciality training for all surgery, [00:20:40] starting to place some implants or or doing a course. Um, and then yeah. [00:20:45] So that’s the, that’s the where, you know, that’s the more realistic thing if I, if I want to [00:20:50] have all those hopes and dreams out there, then I would say, yeah, um, speciality [00:20:55] training. But then alongside that also working in practice maybe locum. [00:21:00] I do also think in the future I might go down doing some bonding and alignment. I [00:21:05] do find that a little bit interesting. Not as much as Natalie, but I can see myself doing it and not just pulling teeth [00:21:10] out and placing implants. Um, so that’s if I was, you know, dreaming really, really [00:21:15] big. And if I enjoy that, I would also have some, some of that in, in, in, [00:21:20] in my work. Yeah. But I would just hope that overall looking at it, I really enjoy work. I think that’s [00:21:25] the biggest thing. It’s not about like what you’re doing. I just want to go into my work in three years time being excited [00:21:30] to go into work. And I think with Foundation, I, I do look forward to going to work, but not [00:21:35] its foundation. Everyone says foundation is like the year where you’re not gonna you’re not gonna love it. You’re [00:21:40] going to learn a lot.

Payman Langroudi: I love that, yeah.

Alisha Sagar: Oh, really? Did you love it? Yeah, no, I do, I [00:21:45] do, I, I love it, but I can’t see myself doing what I’m doing now in three years. I think in foundation [00:21:50] you’re working in a very busy NHS practice. You [00:21:55] don’t in foundation, you can give the time to patients because you’re on a salary. You’re not [00:22:00] being paid per un. I think something that I came to quickly realise in my foundation years, if [00:22:05] I was being paid per UDA, I would be broke because I’d be given the [00:22:10] time I’m giving my patients and what my skill set entails and what I want to be as a dentist. [00:22:15] It doesn’t. It doesn’t work if I continue like this. And yeah, [00:22:20] it’s the sad truth to it. Um, but yeah, I think that’s I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:22:25] you don’t have to be an NHS dentist.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, yeah. No, for sure I do. I do agree with that. But [00:22:30] I’m just trying to see what, what I can get into that I feel I’m going to go into work [00:22:35] and I’m going to really look forward to. I’m not going to feel like I’m being rushed. I’m giving my patients even.

Payman Langroudi: More fascinated by [00:22:40] the runnings of a practice like.

Alisha Sagar: Oh yeah, no, I think, I think.

Payman Langroudi: For me that was a shock.

Alisha Sagar: Like, yeah. [00:22:45]

Payman Langroudi: How does a practice even work?

Alisha Sagar: Oh yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How big’s your practice?

Alisha Sagar: Um, it’s not very big. [00:22:50] We have three dentists and two hygienists working every day. Um, it’s on [00:22:55] high street reading, and it’s quite. It’s not too big. Yeah, it’s it’s a two storey, um, but [00:23:00] a bit smaller.

Payman Langroudi: Do you live there? No, I live here.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, we live in reading. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. [00:23:05]

Payman Langroudi: How’s that.

Natalie Gabrawi: Working out?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, it’s been good. It’s. It’s nice to. As much as we miss London, [00:23:10] like, we come back to the busy London life and we’re like, oh, we miss it. But then there’s also some aspects [00:23:15] that we love about reading. I think also that certain calmness after five years being in London has been great and [00:23:20] like living together has been amazing.

Natalie Gabrawi: So yeah, I come home in and feeds made. I should have done. Like [00:23:25] the housewife. And then I just do the driving.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s literally [00:23:30] like that.

Natalie Gabrawi: No. It’s been. Yeah, it’s been great. I think because reading’s so close to London as well. [00:23:35] We still, we come to every week or so.

Payman Langroudi: So are you on the Elizabeth line a lot?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yes. We all [00:23:40] get the train, the trains a lot faster.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. The fast trains. 22 minutes to Paddington. Yeah, it’s been really easy. [00:23:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So how have you found your foundation here?

Natalie Gabrawi: So I’ve loved it. I’m a bit weird in that sense. I’ve [00:23:50] just loved being in practice. I do see myself in private practice in the future, and [00:23:55] I didn’t think I would enjoy it as much as I have. I love talking to patients, and I think because we [00:24:00] have the luxury of time in as a foundation dentist, like going from three [00:24:05] hour check-ups at uni. Yeah. Um, I just, I learned to, I just like [00:24:10] finding out about patients and listening to their life story. Yeah, it’s not as easy in an NHS [00:24:15] practice as well, but I have yeah, enjoyed it a lot. I’ve had really supportive team [00:24:20] as well. So my supervisors have been great. And I think because my practice is quite big, we’ve just [00:24:25] expanded to six surgeries as well. It’s I have as an implant dentist, [00:24:30] there’s people that have special interest in endo and cosmetic dentistry. So I’ve shadowed them a lot. [00:24:35] And I think they’ve because it’s more private, there’s not a lot of NHS dentistry. I do most of [00:24:40] it with the other foundation dentists. So I’ve seen how much better private [00:24:45] dentistry can be. I don’t want to say better, but you just get more time with your patients and the materials [00:24:50] you use are a lot more advanced. So I do see myself. Yeah, in private in the future. [00:24:55]

Payman Langroudi: Like, what have you gotten really like surprised by how good you’ve gotten at something [00:25:00] in Foundation year? Um.

Natalie Gabrawi: I think quick check-ups um, [00:25:05] I didn’t realise how fast I could work if I’m put under pressure, but I do think [00:25:10] just the seeing patients for the whole year, you’ve got you get to see. [00:25:15] I had a patient who was so nervous, hated going to the dentist, had a massive phobia And then seeing [00:25:20] how now she loves coming to the dentist and her confidence. Yes. Was [00:25:25] it I get I get embarrassed saying, trying to be humble, but it was my [00:25:30] case at the time as well. So I put in a lot of effort and she was really struggling to [00:25:35] find a dentist. So the fact that I even saw her to begin with, she was really grateful for and she never used to smile [00:25:40] before. And now she says that all her friends say that she smiles loads and she’s a lot more confident, which [00:25:45] is the reason I wanted to do dentistry in the first place. So just realising that we as [00:25:50] foundation dentists, we can have that impact on patients lives. Yeah. You don’t realise. [00:25:55]

Payman Langroudi: And going forward, you know, being a gentle, kind dentist. Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:00] Is the best marketing in the world. Yeah. The best. Yeah. Painless injections. [00:26:05]

Natalie Gabrawi: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Get to that like painless NHS. It’s very difficult but but [00:26:10] yeah. Totally painless injections. Yeah. Really. Your patients will follow you around the country [00:26:15] because of that. You know, I don’t know what you guys probably never had any dentistry done on [00:26:20] you.

Alisha Sagar: Um, when I was much younger, other than ortho and when I was much younger, maybe 1 or 2 [00:26:25] fillings.

Natalie Gabrawi: And I’m getting Invisalign.

Payman Langroudi: I had a filling recently. Yeah, it’s horrible [00:26:30] man. It’s much worse than you think. It’s awful. Yeah. And in a way, like, [00:26:35] once the needles gone in. Yeah. Then you’re okay, right? But it’s actually quite nerve wracking. [00:26:40]

Alisha Sagar: Oh, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: So now going forward, what are your hopes and [00:26:45] dreams? Three years.

[TRANSITION]: Three years.

Payman Langroudi: So are you thinking two years of DCT as well?

Natalie Gabrawi: So leaning more towards [00:26:50] one year. I think if I’m really enjoying it then definitely I’ll do DCT to think about. Yeah, [00:26:55] speciality training, but I think I’m taking it a year at a time because I didn’t think I’d even be doing [00:27:00] DCT next year. So yeah, we’ll see what I learn from that. And then [00:27:05] if not, courses private dentistry, thinking of maybe a masters [00:27:10] in Cosmetic and Aesthetic dentistry. I think that’s something I want to do if I want to specialise as well. [00:27:15] And yeah, I just I love the whole full mouth rehab. I’m [00:27:20] really interested in toothwear. I know it’s a bit of a stretch for three years, but maybe thinking, why [00:27:25] not full mouth rehab?

[TRANSITION]: We’ll see. But why not? Yeah. Why not?

Payman Langroudi: If let’s say [00:27:30] you said your goal is that in three years time you want to be doing full mouth rehabs. Okay, shadow people [00:27:35] for three years. Yeah, you’ll know loads about it. By the way, there’s a there’s a, there’s [00:27:40] a course called the full Mouth Rehab course. Fmr course. Yeah. It’s [00:27:45] like a, it’s a one year course.

[TRANSITION]: I think I’ve seen it on Instagram.

Payman Langroudi: Um. Devang [00:27:50] Patel.

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, or of course, you know, you could go to Seattle [00:27:55] and, and and.

[TRANSITION]: And.

Payman Langroudi: Those guys. So what did you say? So three years in year three, where will [00:28:00] you be?

Natalie Gabrawi: Same. It just it changes all the time for me. So most likely most likely I’ll [00:28:05] do DCT for one year and then hopefully go into private for then two years and then see where it takes me. [00:28:10] But yeah, if I love it, then speciality training if not.

Payman Langroudi: Although you know.

[TRANSITION]: Like your. [00:28:15]

Payman Langroudi: You know, like your I know it’s not it’s never going to be a forever job. Yeah. But you’re you’re forever job [00:28:20] tends to be the one after the one you’re in now [00:28:25] not counting DCT.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So so let’s say you’ve done DCT. [00:28:30] You go into a private practice. The one after the next job after that tends [00:28:35] to be the one, you know, the one that you want to.

[TRANSITION]: Really.

Natalie Gabrawi: Stay on as a foundation dentist.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:28:40] also it’s also amazing, by the way, because you can see your own work fail and all that. You learn [00:28:45] a.

[TRANSITION]: Lot.

Payman Langroudi: From it. What about life wise? So you just got engaged?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:28:50] Congrats. A bit.

Payman Langroudi: Early.

[TRANSITION]: Right?

Alisha Sagar: So I get that a lot. I think.

[TRANSITION]: A lot. [00:28:55] You get a lot? Yeah. It’s not just because.

Alisha Sagar: But, um, I do have a couple of friends in our [00:29:00] friend group two. Two of them are also. Yeah, half of our friend group is engaged, I [00:29:05] think.

Payman Langroudi: Is there a date for the wedding?

Alisha Sagar: No.

[TRANSITION]: So this is.

Alisha Sagar: So this is the thing? Yeah. So for [00:29:10] me, it was the only thing that I think about that’s stressful when [00:29:15] it comes to getting married is is the wedding? Um, so both my partner and I were quite well on the same [00:29:20] wavelength in terms of we’re not in a rush to have the wedding tomorrow, and it’s just based on when [00:29:25] we feel like we’re ready, when things are a little bit sort of stable in terms of my DCT, [00:29:30] once I’m in, you know, into the role of things and a bit more comfortable, [00:29:35] then we can start to think about having a wedding.

Payman Langroudi: So he’s a medic.

Alisha Sagar: No, [00:29:40] no, no, he’s a dentist. Yeah, he’s a dentist as well.

Payman Langroudi: So from your year.

Alisha Sagar: No, he’s two years above. [00:29:45]

Payman Langroudi: Oh. What’s he up.

[TRANSITION]: To?

Alisha Sagar: He’s working at a dental practice in Alton. Yeah. And he’s [00:29:50] also now just started part time working at Heroku as well.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:55]

[TRANSITION]: So. Okay.

Alisha Sagar: Um, yeah. So he’s doing that. Um, so yeah, I think although I am young [00:30:00] compared to a lot of people, you know, they get married. I’m 24. I have to think [00:30:05] about that. Yeah. But yeah, I know a lot of people sort of get married more towards 13 hour [00:30:10] days, but for me it was just about where I am in my life. If I feel like I have [00:30:15] a clear plan of what I want to do in a few years, and I know that being engaged or getting married isn’t going to affect that, [00:30:20] because I think a lot of people put getting married on hold because they want to focus on their employment, [00:30:25] their job, but nothing I don’t that’s not going to affect me in any way. [00:30:30] And my partner’s very supportive. So if I, you know, if I’m not ready to have a wedding, even if it’s [00:30:35] next year because I’m too stressed about DCT, there’s no rush about that. My parents are very chill [00:30:40] about that as well. And my brother’s getting married next year, so.

[TRANSITION]: He’s going to get married first. [00:30:45]

Payman Langroudi: You recognise it’s a little bit early. So yeah. Where’s the imperative? Like where did it come from? [00:30:50] Why is it happening if it’s.

[TRANSITION]: So I think the only.

Payman Langroudi: Reason. Did you push for it?

[TRANSITION]: Did he push for it? Are your parents pushing [00:30:55] for it?

Alisha Sagar: The only reason I actually think it’s early is just because I know that a lot of people nowadays [00:31:00] don’t get married like.

Payman Langroudi: It.

[TRANSITION]: Is early. Yeah, but so what?

Payman Langroudi: My point is, why [00:31:05] is it early? Is someone pushing?

Alisha Sagar: No, not really, I just think.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah I think we beat. [00:31:10]

Payman Langroudi: The question like that. Was it?

[TRANSITION]: Oh, no, I totally I’m super nosy.

Alisha Sagar: And so [00:31:15] I did know and I think I was also at a stage where I was, I was ready to be like, I [00:31:20] knew he was the guy who was going to marry. So for me, it was just about, you know, if we’re going to get married and [00:31:25] I’m going to have a ring and, you know, we have that next stage of commitment. Like that meant a lot [00:31:30] to me as well. So, yeah, I think the only thing for me is just I think weddings [00:31:35] are super stressful. Just seeing my brother plan his wedding is really stressful, but nothing else, I [00:31:40] think to me makes it seem like I’m too young. I feel like I’m ready emotionally and I’m, you know, I’m [00:31:45] at a stage in my life where I was ready to to get engaged.

Natalie Gabrawi: I think what’s different with you as well? A lot of people [00:31:50] get engaged and married a year after, I think, because you’re not putting any pressure on the wedding. Yeah. Like you’re [00:31:55] you want to enjoy engagement life.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: That’s a big thing.

Payman Langroudi: This this thing you’re saying about. The most stressful [00:32:00] thing about being married is the wedding.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. I feel like that.

Payman Langroudi: Is not the case.

Natalie Gabrawi: That my brother said [00:32:05] that when he got married.

[TRANSITION]: I feel like everyone.

Alisha Sagar: I’ve spoken to, they’re just like, oh, my God, my brother’s like.

[TRANSITION]: Just elope.

Payman Langroudi: Wedding is a stressful [00:32:10] thing.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Of course. But it’s not the most stressful thing.

[TRANSITION]: Like being.

Payman Langroudi: Married. But being married is stressful. [00:32:15]

[TRANSITION]: What is the.

Natalie Gabrawi: Most stressful.

[TRANSITION]: Thing?

Payman Langroudi: Being with the same person for years.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Even. Even? Even. [00:32:20] Yeah. I was reflecting on this. Yeah, we just had our reunion, uh, of dental school, and, [00:32:25] um, I the guys I live with, actually, the guys who my partners enlighten [00:32:30] as well. Yeah. And I was thinking, when I was your age, I was a bit younger than you. Yeah. Living with my [00:32:35] best friends in university. Having the time of my life. It was still hard living [00:32:40] with them. Yeah. It’s like, you know, the Big Brother house.

[TRANSITION]: Because the first.

Payman Langroudi: The first day, [00:32:45] everyone’s friends.

[TRANSITION]: And then three.

Payman Langroudi: Weeks later, some bananas causing.

[TRANSITION]: An argument. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s [00:32:50] hard living with someone who, even if they’re an angel, it’s hard. Or you’re an angel. It’s [00:32:55] hard.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Whereas if you’re not, it’s a bit easier. And when you say it’s not going to affect [00:33:00] me, it might affect you. Yeah. Because you might want to get a job in Edinburgh. Yeah. [00:33:05] And he’s down here.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So it might affect you career wise?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, [00:33:10] I think I haven’t thought about it that I don’t know if it’s a bad thing. I just think I’m very much, [00:33:15] like, live in the moment. If it feels right. It’s meant to be. And for.

[TRANSITION]: Me. How long have you been together?

Alisha Sagar: For [00:33:20] almost five years. Yeah. So we’ve been together for a long time, and [00:33:25] I think we we know each other on that level. It doesn’t feel rushed or anything like that. And [00:33:30] so I felt ready. He felt ready. And yeah, I just think it was it felt like the right time. [00:33:35] Um, because I feel like there’s.

[TRANSITION]: Always.

Payman Langroudi: In three years time from this perspective. Yeah. From the marriage perspective, [00:33:40] where do you expect to be?

Alisha Sagar: Good question. So on a personal side of things, [00:33:45] I think in three years time we probably would have had the wedding by then, to be honest. So yeah, [00:33:50] it wouldn’t be.

[TRANSITION]: That far away to be.

Payman Langroudi: Married.

[TRANSITION]: Now. Yeah. So [00:33:55] married. Uh, not.

Alisha Sagar: Thinking of kids in three years time?

[TRANSITION]: No. No.

Alisha Sagar: Um, but, yeah, just enjoying, [00:34:00] like.

[TRANSITION]: Holidaying.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, just holidaying and also having a [00:34:05] good balance in terms of like, I think it’s really important to have that balance with personal [00:34:10] and professional life as well. Um, and then, yeah, I’m trying to think like.

[TRANSITION]: Would.

Payman Langroudi: You say [00:34:15] you’re more the sort of work to live type or the live to work type?

[TRANSITION]: Oh.

Alisha Sagar: I [00:34:20] think you should answer that for me, I don’t know.

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh that’s good. I think you’re more work [00:34:25] to live, right?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Work life balance.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Whole [00:34:30] thing.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: I don’t let’s just say.

Payman Langroudi: Just just fast forward again. Yeah. [00:34:35] Let’s say okay, ten years time. What do you what would be. What do you reckon?

Natalie Gabrawi: I’m an auntie. [00:34:40]

[TRANSITION]: So you have to I don’t know know.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s interesting. Like, is it that when we say, you know, work to [00:34:45] live or live to work, are you going to be like two days a week? Dentist.

[TRANSITION]: Shopping, [00:34:50] having.

Payman Langroudi: A great time, kids, like, where are we? Where do you think you’ll be like, when do you think you’ll [00:34:55] have kids?

[TRANSITION]: Um.

Alisha Sagar: Maybe closer to 30, maybe. Yeah, around [00:35:00] around like 36 years time. Yeah, maybe around then. But again, I’m I’m not I [00:35:05] haven’t put like a number on it, to be honest. I think it’s just about when I’m ready. Um, but.

Payman Langroudi: Six [00:35:10] years time, it’s only six summers.

Natalie Gabrawi: We’ve been married. [00:35:15]

[TRANSITION]: Six years, five and a half.

Payman Langroudi: Summers, you know, like like is there, like, maybe if [00:35:20] there were seven places you wanted to visit?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You can’t or you can’t. You can. You can be married and.

[TRANSITION]: You [00:35:25] never.

Natalie Gabrawi: Know what’s going.

[TRANSITION]: To happen.

Natalie Gabrawi: Next year. So I think it’s hard to predict.

Payman Langroudi: So kids, kids or no, not interested.

Alisha Sagar: When, [00:35:30] when? Oh, no. Kids. Yeah. Eventually kids. Um. But oh I don’t it’s such a hard question. [00:35:35] I don’t want to put a number. I just think when, like, I don’t know, probably around 30, I’ll say around not [00:35:40] earlier than 29. So I’ll say yeah, around 29.

[TRANSITION]: To. [00:35:45]

Alisha Sagar: 33.

[TRANSITION]: Let’s, let’s.

Alisha Sagar: Do a range.

[TRANSITION]: For 4.

Payman Langroudi: To 6 summers left.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah [00:35:50] yeah yeah. But also.

Alisha Sagar: You change so much every year [00:35:55] and.

[TRANSITION]: You realise.

Payman Langroudi: That.

[TRANSITION]: If it was me, if.

Payman Langroudi: It was me, yeah. The pressure I would feel under [00:36:00] to make those four summers the best four summers in the whole wide world. Yeah, because after that. Because I’ve been there. 18 [00:36:05] year old.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: After that. Yeah. As a as a mother. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. I [00:36:10] mean, it’s good to think about. It’s not.

Payman Langroudi: The same. It’s not the.

[TRANSITION]: Same. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: In terms of summers.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:36:15]

Payman Langroudi: It’s not for about eight years.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re out.

Natalie Gabrawi: I [00:36:20] think that’s your mindset on it. I do.

[TRANSITION]: Think.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, I [00:36:25] do think you’re very much a. Yeah. You live in the moment. I think you’re going to make every summer your [00:36:30] best summer with or without kids I think. But I know it’s different because.

[TRANSITION]: We’re.

Natalie Gabrawi: Talking from it from a point of view where [00:36:35] we’re not married.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: Things change. And going back to your previous question, where you were saying, like, do you [00:36:40] will you be working two days a week? And I think if you ask me that question a year ago, I would be like, oh, I want [00:36:45] to work two days a week. I want to be like, I want to be a mom. I want to be like with my matcha [00:36:50] in the morning. But like now when I actually when I have a day off, I get so bored. I literally [00:36:55] when I’m at home and Natalie’s at work, I just don’t know what to do. I get so bored and I [00:37:00] that’s I’m a very like I have to keep myself busy. I have to get some work done. [00:37:05] I don’t like being unproductive in the day. So I think if I definitely don’t want to work full time [00:37:10] like dentistry, but I would love to do maybe 1 to 2 days of something [00:37:15] else that I enjoy. I don’t know what that passion is yet. I actually saying that I, [00:37:20] I’ve always wanted to teach as well. So literally since uni, I’ve always been [00:37:25] the person who’s like wanting to help the younger years, like I’m not getting paid or anything for it. I just love [00:37:30] helping like people younger than me who are learning still, and I’ve always seen myself [00:37:35] tutoring as well. So even that is dentistry like so it would be kind of full time dentistry. But [00:37:40] two of those days I would love to be teaching rather than the dentist, if that makes sense. So [00:37:45] I think I could see myself doing that. And I always say that I think that’s something that’s never changed since uni.

[TRANSITION]: Teaching.

Payman Langroudi: Is. [00:37:50]

[TRANSITION]: Fun teaching.

Alisha Sagar: I’ve always wanted to get into teaching. Yeah. And like even when we had like study groups for [00:37:55] finals, like when we’d, like hire a room in the, in the library and I don’t know what [00:38:00] I would just like. I would be a different person up there teaching about like squamous cell carcinoma. I loved oral meds, so. [00:38:05]

[TRANSITION]: You’re.

Alisha Sagar: So good at explaining it. Oh, thanks. And you were really good at restorative. So I think that’s something that both [00:38:10] like I just really enjoy like sharing knowledge and also gaining knowledge from peers. Yeah. So that’s [00:38:15] something I can see myself doing actually. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: I the idea of working three days a week a [00:38:20] week was great. As in, I thought I’d always do that. But I have a lot of side hobbies. [00:38:25] Like I love dentistry as it is, but I do really like my art, like drawing. I love [00:38:30] sports, so I’ve gotten to paddle recently, which is really great. It’s so fun. [00:38:35] We actually need to do that one time. Um, and I get a lot of my [00:38:40] social energy from hanging out with my friends and and doing other things. I do like the [00:38:45] idea of Botox in the future, maybe, and facial aesthetics. So I think dentistry would [00:38:50] be good for 3 to 4 days max and then doing things. I think work life balance [00:38:55] is so important and a lot of dentists get sucked into the they have to, especially [00:39:00] at our age, to do all these courses, do so much to get to where we want to. But I think [00:39:05] it’s so important to focus on your mental health and do other things that you enjoy as well, because it’s [00:39:10] easy to get sucked into.

Payman Langroudi: And so how about from the personal perspective, where do you think you’re going [00:39:15] to be in three years time?

Natalie Gabrawi: Great question. Um, hopefully.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the situation [00:39:20] now?

Natalie Gabrawi: At the moment? Um, yeah. Single. Not talking to anyone. Yeah. And I think I wanted [00:39:25] to just focus on me for a bit. And again, I think I’m too young at the moment. [00:39:30] I know a lot of people have different opinions, like Anita’s engaged, which is great. But I think for me personally, [00:39:35] I’m not ready to. Yeah, settle down just yet.

Payman Langroudi: Too much drama, [00:39:40] right?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, I live with me. I get all my drama from [00:39:45] Alicia and.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. No.

Natalie Gabrawi: As in, I think I didn’t know where I was going to be [00:39:50] next year a few months ago. So I think it’s for me to put. [00:39:55] Yeah put.

[TRANSITION]: That.

Payman Langroudi: But then, but then we’re trying to predict in three years time. Three years. Where do you think you’re going [00:40:00] to be from a personal perspective?

Natalie Gabrawi: I hope I’m. Yeah. Talking to someone, maybe thinking about. Yeah. [00:40:05]

[TRANSITION]: Getting serious with someone.

Natalie Gabrawi: Getting serious with someone, settling down somewhere. I think that’s important [00:40:10] because I think especially for women as well, we have a shorter timeline. I think a lot of [00:40:15] maybe by like late 20s. Yeah. Serious for someone, hopefully. [00:40:20]

Payman Langroudi: But either of you considered freezing eggs?

Natalie Gabrawi: I actually have you know, I think a [00:40:25] lot more people are doing it at the moment. I think people are getting married later. Yeah. And [00:40:30] yeah, I would think about it. But also if it’s meant to be [00:40:35] or it will be.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We’ve had two episodes on on egg freezing. Yeah. [00:40:40] And um, you know, the younger the better.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s why it makes a massive difference. Yeah. [00:40:45] Like each year is like a dog year or something.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Dog years. Seven years. Yeah. [00:40:50] Yeah, yeah. Like from from.

Payman Langroudi: The egg perspective.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:40:55] but I don’t know, man. After those two pods, I’ve been just going around telling everyone, freeze your eggs.

Alisha Sagar: You [00:41:00] know what? Thanks for the advice. Maybe I’ll do.

[TRANSITION]: That, because why not?

Payman Langroudi: Because why.

[TRANSITION]: Not? Yeah, exactly. You lose.

Alisha Sagar: Nothing. [00:41:05]

[TRANSITION]: From it.

Payman Langroudi: Well, there’s a bit of money. There’s a bit.

[TRANSITION]: Of.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a little bit. It feels funny or whatever with hormones and all [00:41:10] that. So there is, there.

[TRANSITION]: Is that put less pressure.

Natalie Gabrawi: On the future.

Alisha Sagar: Though I do think. Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s more to gain probably [00:41:15] from.

Payman Langroudi: So have you both decided you do want kids?

[TRANSITION]: I think.

Alisha Sagar: I’ve decided. Yeah. I would [00:41:20] like to have kids in the future.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. I’m not sure.

Natalie Gabrawi: Not sure I would in the future. I think because [00:41:25] I’m thinking right now I wouldn’t. But just imagining a mini nanny running around, I think that would.

[TRANSITION]: Be an auntie.

Alisha Sagar: Though. [00:41:30] You have.

[TRANSITION]: To.

Alisha Sagar: Have a kid.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, definitely. In the future, at some point. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’ve decided [00:41:35] you do. You do want them.

Natalie Gabrawi: It changes all the time. I do, I do. It depends [00:41:40] what day you ask me. Um, now I definitely do want kids. I think it’s it’s just what [00:41:45] puts me off having kids is bringing them up in a world I don’t know what the world is going to be like in [00:41:50] a few years. And I think that’s what scares me the most, is I always want what’s best. I’d want what’s best for [00:41:55] them, and to bring them up into a world that is quite unstable at the moment, I think is [00:42:00] quite a scary thought. But yeah, I know people that have kids are like, yeah, as [00:42:05] soon as they have their first kid they can’t think of, that’s like the best thing that’s ever happened to them. [00:42:10] So I do think, yeah, there’s probably more to it that I haven’t thought about. Yeah. Just.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, I think [00:42:15] so.

Alisha Sagar: I was just gonna say I agree with Natalie. The only thing that sometimes puts me off having kids is [00:42:20] the thought of, like, what? The world, like the world is changing so much, just. And, like AI scares me [00:42:25] a lot. So I think that’s like a big thing as well is just like, what type of world will our kids grow up [00:42:30] in and future generations? It’s just scary. But I think, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Fear. Fear is part of these [00:42:35] sort of moves. Right? But yeah, I mean, the trend is your kid will be in a better world than we [00:42:40] were. You know, the general trend is that. Yeah, I know you worry. Yeah, yeah. [00:42:45] Um, it’s the way you got to look at it. It’s almost like a, you know, like a wave pattern. [00:42:50] Yeah. You can take no risks and do nothing. Just be single and don’t start a business. Don’t start [00:42:55] a family and you’re you’re sort of amplitudes like this. The highs are there and the lows are there. Then [00:43:00] you get a partner, you get married. Yeah. The highs are higher. The lows are lower. Yeah. Bear that [00:43:05] in mind. Yeah, yeah. Then you get a kid, the highs are higher. The lows are lower when your kid’s [00:43:10] sick and stuff. Yeah. Or when your kid gets bullied the first time or bullied. Yeah. God forbid your kid bullies [00:43:15] another kid. Yeah. It’s an awful, awful situation to be in. Yeah. Uh, you [00:43:20] go through all the same pain as you just finished. Yeah. With your kid again? Yeah. And all [00:43:25] the same. Pleasure. Yeah. First ice cream. The highs and lows. Start your own business [00:43:30] again. The highs are higher, the lows are low. And it’s a question of. Some people think, well, if I’m going to live life I’m going to live life. [00:43:35] I’m going to experience these sort of highs and lows.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, but [00:43:40] this worry that you’re talking about, I had the exact same thing I said to my wife, I don’t want kids. Yeah, the [00:43:45] world’s such a terrible place. And her angle on it was, well, we want to put out good cats into [00:43:50] the world who are going to make the world a better place.

[TRANSITION]: That’s true. That’s a different.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s quite an interesting way [00:43:55] of looking at it.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: For sure.

Payman Langroudi: Do you think you’ll have you’ll have businesses. Do you think your business owner types. [00:44:00]

Natalie Gabrawi: I would love to have a.

[TRANSITION]: Business one.

Natalie Gabrawi: Day I.

[TRANSITION]: Think.

Payman Langroudi: Have you got that entrepreneurial kind of.

Natalie Gabrawi: I’ve just [00:44:05] always wanted to have. You just have? Yeah. Something that I can call the shots. [00:44:10]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: Because I’m quite a people pleaser in general, so I think. Yeah, I’ve [00:44:15] always wanted to do something on the side or not make. Yeah. Just not guilty the whole.

Payman Langroudi: Well, no. [00:44:20] When I say business could be a Dental business.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Could be a.

Payman Langroudi: Principle of a practice.

[TRANSITION]: You could.

Payman Langroudi: Be. But you’re. [00:44:25]

[TRANSITION]: Saying.

Payman Langroudi: A different business altogether.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yes and yes, I think different business altogether, [00:44:30] but also running a business. I’ve seen how difficult it is for my supervisors point of view. Like it’s [00:44:35] stressful. Yeah. And but it’s something I think I could manage in the future. [00:44:40] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Especially if you’re good with people.

[TRANSITION]: Right. I think that’s the most important thing. Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: I [00:44:45] think, yeah. I mean, a couple of years back I would [00:44:50] would have said yes, but I think now I’m a little bit in the middle. I’m not sure if I were to ever [00:44:55] move back to Zambia, then I would 100% want to open my own dental practice and, [00:45:00] and run that as, um, as a practice owner. But I just think there’s different challenges [00:45:05] that come with doing that in the UK as compared to Zambia a lot. There’s a lot of litigation, a [00:45:10] lot of different stresses that come about here. So I, I think seeing that side of things, I’m a little bit put off [00:45:15] owning a practice. I think you can have more of a work life balance, just [00:45:20] working at a really good practice, having a really good boss as compared to running the practice itself. [00:45:25] Um, and yeah, I think that I’ve got that advice from a lot of people who own practices and [00:45:30] they’ve sort of said, if you’re really gonna, you know, if you’re willing to cut out [00:45:35] a little bit of that work life balance and you’re looking to put in 100% into, like for the first few [00:45:40] years into that business, then go for it. But it’s going to be tough. And I think if [00:45:45] I do it, I, I need to sort of be 100% with that idea.

[TRANSITION]: Which is.

Payman Langroudi: Tough. That tough, is it? It’s [00:45:50] not that tough. Yeah, I’d say I’d say it’s just as tough becoming an Implantologist. Yeah, it’s an all [00:45:55] in kind of thing. Implantologist. Yeah. It’s not it’s not a sort of dabble.

[TRANSITION]: I feel like.

Alisha Sagar: With that you’re [00:46:00] just managing yourself. But whereas when you’re owning a practice, you’re literally having to [00:46:05] manage so many different people, so many different personalities, alongside the other stresses [00:46:10] that come with owning a business.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And especially your parents, both doctors. And [00:46:15] what do your parents do?

Alisha Sagar: My parents are both accountants. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So definitely [00:46:20] dentistry’s better than being a doctor in that sense. I’m talking from the business sense.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:46:25]

Payman Langroudi: And accountant. I mean, look, any business is difficult. Yeah, [00:46:30] but what I reflect on in dentistry is that. Oh, by the way, it’s hard, right? You’re breaking your back, and now you’re having [00:46:35] to please your patients.

[TRANSITION]: And.

Payman Langroudi: Please your please your staff. And you know everything. [00:46:40] It’s not an easy, easy ride. But I reflect on I visit dentists [00:46:45] all over the country, you know, and, um, they’re doing well, man. They’re doing well. Making loads.

[TRANSITION]: Of money.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:46:50] making loads of money. And the key thing is they’re just being [00:46:55] nice to their staff. Nice to their patients.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Most fields that’s not you say oh a business in [00:47:00] a different area. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s hard making money in general. It’s hard making money [00:47:05] dentistry let alone in.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah I mean 50% of businesses fail.

[TRANSITION]: Within their first year.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:47:10] But what do you reckon. What kind of thing are we talking? I mean, uh, Alicia [00:47:15] said teaching. What’s this sort of extracurricular thing that we’re. Are you going to [00:47:20] buy properties? Are you going to become an influencer? Sell something on Instagram?

Natalie Gabrawi: Alicia [00:47:25] definitely will be an influencer. As in, I have [00:47:30] been thinking, I do want to make a product that will benefit other people.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, Dental.

[TRANSITION]: Product. [00:47:35]

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, I have.

[TRANSITION]: I can I can.

Payman Langroudi: Help a.

[TRANSITION]: Lot.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I can help a lot.

Natalie Gabrawi: I’m still like thinking [00:47:40] about I have like a notes app where every time I think of a new business idea, I write it down. So there is. [00:47:45] But nothing’s stuck with me just yet, I just. I want to have a positive [00:47:50] influence on the world or do something that will make someone’s life better. And I think, yeah, I could own [00:47:55] a dental practice, but that’s very minimal. I want to do bigger than than that or reach [00:48:00] out. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do you know what at your very stage, I had that very thought.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And [00:48:05] years later, I realised it was childish.

[TRANSITION]: Well, I’m glad you’re [00:48:10] telling me this now. That’s good. No, I was saying. I was saying.

Payman Langroudi: In my room with my nurse [00:48:15] thinking, is this it? Yeah. And I thought if I was the best dentist in the whole [00:48:20] town, I’d still be this town. And impact wise, it [00:48:25] was doing my head in. I spoke to my boss about it, and he was like, number one impact. It could [00:48:30] be depth, not breadth. You know, like impacting one person in a deep way is just [00:48:35] as valuable as impacting the whole country in a shallow way. That’s true. Alright. He’s right about that. But then, [00:48:40] um, later on. That’s why I did enlighten. You know, I’m going to have impact. [00:48:45] Impact? I wanted to make adverts or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, later on, I realised I could have had 100 [00:48:50] dental practices. If you want to have impact.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You could. You could stick in dental practices and [00:48:55] have impact. Products are hard. That’s much harder than services. Much, [00:49:00] much harder. So I can I can definitely help you not lose half £1 million, [00:49:05] which is how much.

[TRANSITION]: It cost.

Payman Langroudi: How much it costs. Yeah. And it’s that risk, right? If let’s say Alicia [00:49:10] said, I’m going to take my half a million, I’m going to start a practice or I’m going to buy a practice, something like that, something very [00:49:15] safe, um, or a house and rent it out. And you said, I’m going to put my 500,000 [00:49:20] into a toothpaste.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re you’re in a much.

[TRANSITION]: Bigger.

Payman Langroudi: Chance [00:49:25] of losing your 500,000 than than you are. But people make products, right? [00:49:30] Like.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, you got my teeth whitening, so I’m not complaining. Yeah. [00:49:35] It’s interesting. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: Going back to the, um, having that one like its [00:49:40] depth. Not. I do think I do enjoy changing someone’s smile [00:49:45] and having that impact on someone’s life. I think, yeah, there’s just so much there’s [00:49:50] so much more to dentistry than just sitting in a practice or owning a practice. And I think that’s what [00:49:55] we’re both trying to explore at the moment.

Payman Langroudi: How are you guys feeling about AI?

[TRANSITION]: Because [00:50:00] this is going.

Payman Langroudi: To be interesting. In three years time. We’re going to it’s going to be much clearer what AI did [00:50:05] to us.

Natalie Gabrawi: We are in one of the safest professions, I think. I don’t think AI is going to take over our jobs [00:50:10] at any point, which we’re lucky.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, but we were listening to a podcast literally the other day. It [00:50:15] was diary of a CEO, and it was about, um, how AI is changing the world. And that got me really thinking. [00:50:20] And it’s scary. I think that was also when, you know, when you start thinking, [00:50:25] oh, do you want your kids to grow up in a world like this? It’s just taking over so quickly, and I’m gonna take [00:50:30] myself accountable for even with some small things, I have to go on ChatGPT and I’m [00:50:35] using it because of the ease of it. And it’s scary because you can’t stop yourself to some.

[TRANSITION]: Extent with [00:50:40] it.

Alisha Sagar: There’s nothing wrong with it. But I think sometimes you just stop thinking for yourself. Sometimes [00:50:45] when.

[TRANSITION]: You.

Natalie Gabrawi: Barely had it at uni and now there’s people at uni that are using it.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: For everything. [00:50:50]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I don’t know. What about you?

Natalie Gabrawi: I just I think it’s making [00:50:55] people work. Yes, it’s making people work less, but they’re [00:51:00] not working as hard, I think, to get the same.

Payman Langroudi: You got it wrong. I think it’s only because we’re. [00:51:05]

[TRANSITION]: In.

Payman Langroudi: The transitional phase now. Yeah. Where people only had their own [00:51:10] head to work with. Yeah. So? So the amount of work that’s expected is a lot less. [00:51:15] If if it was expected that everyone had access to super intelligence, [00:51:20] the what people will want from you is way more than what you’re putting out right now. Yeah. You know, [00:51:25] like we were looking at our social media. Um, yeah. Uh, output.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We’re [00:51:30] putting as a as enlightened. We’re putting four posts a week. Yeah. [00:51:35]

Natalie Gabrawi: It makes your life easier in the sense that it’s so much better to get AI to do the mundane jobs, or the little [00:51:40] things like or marketing advice, things like that. And I think it will make it will free us [00:51:45] up from.

[TRANSITION]: To.

Natalie Gabrawi: Do more, which I do agree with.

Payman Langroudi: By the way, what you said about we’re not going to get replaced. [00:51:50]

[TRANSITION]: Um, no.

Alisha Sagar: I don’t.

[TRANSITION]: Know.

Payman Langroudi: Well, well, well, well, the way it’s going, the [00:51:55] way it right now, it’s going. For instance, the driverless cars.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: There’s hundreds [00:52:00] of thousands of, of of rides being had in driverless cars right now. Waymo. Right. Yeah. And the way the way it’s [00:52:05] going is that one driver is driving 30 cars.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So the cars there [00:52:10] are moments where the cars don’t know what to do. And they go back to base. And the guy there’s a human in [00:52:15] base takes care of whatever it is. It could happen in industry easily, man. It could [00:52:20] be a little unit you stick on the teeth. Yeah, some. Some nurse sees the patient and some guy sitting in Indonesia [00:52:25] pushes the button, and he’s doing 400 fillings at a time when [00:52:30] it could happen.

[TRANSITION]: I have thought about that.

Natalie Gabrawi: But then that means all your patients have to be sedated. No, as Because I [00:52:35] don’t think if you tried to get a kid to sit down still, that’s difficult enough as it is. But then to get an [00:52:40] AI machine to then do a filling on them, I think there’s.

[TRANSITION]: From.

Payman Langroudi: The patient perspective is [00:52:45] weird anyway, right? There’s a machine that’s.

[TRANSITION]: Just you’re just opening your mouth.

Natalie Gabrawi: Like the. [00:52:50]

Payman Langroudi: You’re right though, it’s not going to be the first thing that goes, I mean, sales, marketing [00:52:55] these things.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Even, uh, psychiatrists, radiologists.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Those guys [00:53:00] are in more trouble. Anyone sitting in front of a screen is in massive trouble.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: I [00:53:05] think that’s what I think about more, is just how much the rate of unemployment is going [00:53:10] to go up as AI takes over, and that scares me because when that happens, then people are gonna there’s [00:53:15] going to be more crime. And when that happens, there’s a whole butterfly effect. And I think that’s what scares me of how bad it can get. [00:53:20] Um, so yeah, I don’t know. That side of things really stresses me out when I think about it, [00:53:25] to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, look, you’re right, these are dangerous times because there’s [00:53:30] wars and things and but there’s always been wars. Was during Covid. I was thinking [00:53:35] about like some, some poor guy who was born during the First World War, you know, [00:53:40] like First World War. Then you had your Spanish flu thing from 1920. [00:53:45] Then the Second World War. Yeah. And all through that innovation, TV, [00:53:50] radio, electricity, like planes, jets, rockets, bombs, nuclear [00:53:55] bombs, you know, that stuff has been happening for humanity for a long time. And you can [00:54:00] choose to look at the fear side of it, and you should. Right? Because with AI, there’s this non-zero. [00:54:05]

[TRANSITION]: Risk.

Payman Langroudi: That literally it’s going to some AI is going to.

[TRANSITION]: Make a mistake and like, suck [00:54:10] all.

Payman Langroudi: The oxygen out of the world.

[TRANSITION]: Or something.

Payman Langroudi: Like it’s possible, right? So we need to worry. But [00:54:15] but I wouldn’t worry to the point that I’m seriously worried. I’m much more hopeful in that a lot more work could [00:54:20] get done. It’s interesting.

Natalie Gabrawi: Humans are very adaptable as well, I think.

[TRANSITION]: And what?

Natalie Gabrawi: Humans are very adaptable. [00:54:25] I think we do change with the times very easily. So I think a lot [00:54:30] of good can come from it, but I don’t know if there’s enough good people that want the same goodness [00:54:35] in the world. Does that make.

[TRANSITION]: Sense?

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to like, spirituality. Were you born here or were you born?

Natalie Gabrawi: I was born here. [00:54:40]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Are you Coptic?

[TRANSITION]: Yes.

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh. You’re not.

Alisha Sagar: I’m Hindu. [00:54:45]

[TRANSITION]: Hindu? Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So, do you believe in God?

Natalie Gabrawi: I do believe in God. Yes.

[TRANSITION]: And you [00:54:50] do?

Alisha Sagar: I believe in an energy. That’s a positive energy. I would, I’d if [00:54:55] that’s what I would call God, then. Yes, but I don’t really say that I believe in God. I just believe that there’s this [00:55:00] energy that kind of goes around that keeps everything balanced.

Payman Langroudi: Like a [00:55:05] good energy.

Alisha Sagar: There’s good and there’s bad energy. Yeah. But, um, I think there’s just like a a [00:55:10] powerful. I sound like I’m in Star Wars now, but I was going to say a powerful force.

[TRANSITION]: That’s [00:55:15] what.

Payman Langroudi: I’m interested. Have you always thought this or has your has your belief, like.

[TRANSITION]: Evolved [00:55:20] to this?

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. It’s evolved, I think when I was younger growing [00:55:25] up in my parents are they’re not very, very religious. But you know, we’d always say like, oh, let’s pray to God [00:55:30] together. Let’s do this. Let’s do that. And, um, my brother’s atheist. So, um, hearing [00:55:35] his views, hearing my parents views, I and then having my own personal views, meeting so many different people [00:55:40] and hearing their views, I think it just kind of changed over time. And I yeah, I mean, I [00:55:45] do still pray.

[TRANSITION]: Um.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I do pray.

Payman Langroudi: Uh, when you’re in trouble or every.

[TRANSITION]: Day [00:55:50] when I.

Alisha Sagar: Have exams. Um, no, I do try pray once in a while. I think when I’m [00:55:55] going through it, then maybe I’ll pray a bit more, which is really bad. I should probably. I don’t [00:56:00] have that continuous. I don’t yeah, I don’t know what the right word.

Payman Langroudi: What are you doing when you’re praying? [00:56:05] Are you asking for stuff?

Alisha Sagar: I don’t ask for stuff for myself. But I’ll pray for, like, my family’s health [00:56:10] and things like that, and I don’t. That’s the thing is, I don’t know who I’m praying to. I’m not like, as per putting it on, I’m praying to God, [00:56:15] but I just I find like there’s a peace that comes within me when I when I do that. And [00:56:20] that’s enough for me to say that. Yeah, I pray for that reason. So yeah, I wouldn’t say I’m [00:56:25] the most religious person. I don’t go to the temple a lot. Um, but I [00:56:30] do. Yeah. I do still pray to to this this positive.

[TRANSITION]: Force.

Natalie Gabrawi: Going [00:56:35] through stressful times as well. It’s it’s not always a bad thing to pray when you’re stressed. [00:56:40] But I do think that when we it the fact that you’re going to [00:56:45] pray or you want that you’re going to God or to, um, whoever you believe in [00:56:50] through that stressful time shows that that’s what your fallback is. That’s what you rely on. So I used to always feel guilty [00:56:55] when I didn’t pray, when the times were good, and I only prayed when the times were bad. But I don’t necessarily think that’s always [00:57:00] a bad thing, because that’s who you turn to when things are hard.

[TRANSITION]: So yes.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:57:05] important to forgive yourself more in life, right?

[TRANSITION]: For [00:57:10] sure.

Payman Langroudi: It’s, you know, to worry about that. So are you quite Christian?

[TRANSITION]: Are [00:57:15] you?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah. So I do go to church every week and.

[TRANSITION]: Oh. Do you?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, I do try. My parents will kill [00:57:20] me if I didn’t. No.

[TRANSITION]: Joking.

Natalie Gabrawi: Um, no, I think it’s not [00:57:25] even just going just for the religion part of it. But I think just meeting people that believe the same as [00:57:30] you, and I think.

[TRANSITION]: That’s why we’ve got something.

Payman Langroudi: Nice about.

[TRANSITION]: It. There’s something nice about it.

Natalie Gabrawi: And I think it’s I’m a very optimistic [00:57:35] person, and I think that is because I’m religious, because I just leave it all in God’s hands. And [00:57:40] like you’re asking, what am I going to do in the future? It’s in God’s hands. I if it if he wants me to go [00:57:45] a certain way, I’ll go that way. And I think that makes me put less pressure myself. And [00:57:50] it has. Yeah. Just made me think more positively just about life in general, because I don’t have [00:57:55] time to stress. Well, maybe sometimes, but most of the time, yeah, I just yeah, if it all [00:58:00] works out in the end, I think.

[TRANSITION]: I think also.

Payman Langroudi: From an identity perspective, right. In that region, [00:58:05] it’s very important to the Christians to be Christian [00:58:10] because a minority and being there for thousands of years and Christ was in that sort of region, [00:58:15] and it makes a lot of difference to sort of be part of that identity. Right. But [00:58:20] the question of, you know, like, does it help or not? Or sure, I’m [00:58:25] sure it helps. Yeah. When have you been most tested? Like when? When did you. Like, when was [00:58:30] your faith most tested?

[TRANSITION]: Really?

Natalie Gabrawi: Good question. I think it’s quite deep, but I had [00:58:35] a family member that was really unwell. Didn’t think they were going to make it. And it got [00:58:40] to a point where I had to accept that if that was God’s plan for [00:58:45] them to to go, then it would be. And I think that gave me a bit more peace. And I think, yeah, of course I [00:58:50] prayed that they would get better. And I was like, why, why, why them? Um, and I think [00:58:55] then it then they got a lot better. And then it came back a few years later and I think [00:59:00] I was like, well, like, this is so unfair. And I think just [00:59:05] having to yeah, just go through that period with my family as well. And I think [00:59:10] I learned a lot that if it’s just to look at the positives of that [00:59:15] and yeah, there is suffering in the world and things like that. But as long as [00:59:20] you’ve got a good support network, you’ve got good people around you. You have that faith [00:59:25] in God to get you through it. So I always knew no matter what happens, even when I do go through tough times, [00:59:30] I know God will get me through it. So that’s how I try to stay optimistic. Optimistic [00:59:35] about things because it’s so easy to be like to think, why me? Why is [00:59:40] this happening? Why them? And I think you’re not going to gain anything from thinking that way. So [00:59:45] yeah, that definitely then. And I think that’s why I have such a positive outlook now on [00:59:50] life.

Payman Langroudi: Hopefully you stay positive. Hopefully hopefully you do.

[TRANSITION]: You know it’ll.

Natalie Gabrawi: Take a lot [00:59:55] for me not to.

[TRANSITION]: I think. Big smiles.

Payman Langroudi: On.

[TRANSITION]: Both.

Payman Langroudi: Of your.

[TRANSITION]: Faces. Nice to see you.

Payman Langroudi: Nice to see. But you know [01:00:00] that that question, uh, how do you feel when you when you see someone else? I mean, not even your own life. Yeah. [01:00:05] You see some some kid got born today, bombed three days later. Died?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How [01:00:10] do you. What do you. What’s the God perspective on that? What do you how [01:00:15] do you.

[TRANSITION]: It’s so hard to.

Payman Langroudi: Process.

[TRANSITION]: That.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah. Because I do think like why me why why am I not that kid? [01:00:20] Why why have I been put in this position. And I think maybe it [01:00:25] is difficult because like, why does God allow suffering in the world? That’s kind of what you’re asking.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, [01:00:30] yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: And I think it’s we. [01:00:35]

[TRANSITION]: In.

Payman Langroudi: Mysterious.

[TRANSITION]: Ways.

Natalie Gabrawi: We have free will at the end of the day. So I don’t think God can control what everyone [01:00:40] I think people do do wrong because they’re inherently not great [01:00:45] people. And I think if God was to interfere with that, then we wouldn’t have free will at the end of the day, and then [01:00:50] we wouldn’t have this whole heaven and hell. And that’s what I believe in personally. But, um, [01:00:55] yeah, if if everything was all good, I just we would be like robots. [01:01:00] We would be like the AI, we wouldn’t have a say in in what we do.

[TRANSITION]: And yeah, [01:01:05] I think.

Payman Langroudi: I think it does.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I think an interesting question is should there be. God. Um, [01:01:10] yeah. Like should there be a third party?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Looking over [01:01:15] everything we’re doing all the time. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: If I, if there wasn’t, I think I’d go crazy. [01:01:20]

Payman Langroudi: No. But should there be like should, should, should when I’m on my own?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Should there be [01:01:25] someone looking out for me? Like looking out? Not for me.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: Looking out.

Payman Langroudi: Looking.

[TRANSITION]: Over.

Natalie Gabrawi: The [01:01:30] Truman Show. Like people.

[TRANSITION]: Just watching. Yeah, yeah, like.

Payman Langroudi: We could arrange it.

[TRANSITION]: Right?

Payman Langroudi: If [01:01:35] it’s. If it’s the right move. Yeah, we could arrange it. It would fundamentally change what it is to be a human. [01:01:40]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But you believe that anyway, right? You believe God is constantly [01:01:45] looking.

Natalie Gabrawi: Out for me than looking directly [01:01:50] at me. Does that make sense?

Payman Langroudi: Works for you.

Natalie Gabrawi: I [01:01:55] think if everyone thought like that, everyone would be Christian. Then not so, I do think.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: While [01:02:00] we’re on this show, let’s just hit the darker part while we’re at it. What was your darkest day [01:02:05] so far in dentistry?

Alisha Sagar: In dentistry? I think for [01:02:10] me, it was probably in first year when we had our first summative, and I [01:02:15] think it was a huge kind of like I just had to pattern myself because I [01:02:20] realised I had to put in a bit more work. I think coming from school, where you’re always excelling at grades [01:02:25] to get into dentistry and then you’re in.

[TRANSITION]: The first.

Payman Langroudi: Time you ever got knocked back.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, it was [01:02:30] my so I didn’t. Thankfully, I didn’t fail this exam, but I literally passed by like a couple of marks. [01:02:35] But no.

[TRANSITION]: I know the whole of my dental [01:02:40] school.

Payman Langroudi: The whole of.

[TRANSITION]: My GCSE A-levels, I.

Alisha Sagar: Think.

[TRANSITION]: I don’t know why it.

Alisha Sagar: Hit me so hard that day. I think [01:02:45] it’s.

[TRANSITION]: Just because you’re.

Payman Langroudi: This perfectionist.

[TRANSITION]: Person.

Alisha Sagar: I think, yeah, you just kind of grow up thinking that you’re [01:02:50] super. I think that was like a day where I came to terms with the fact that, like, I’m not the smartest.

[TRANSITION]: It’s humbling. [01:02:55] Humbling.

Alisha Sagar: It was a humbling experience, and I think I just realised that I [01:03:00] need to put in a bit more work. And I was I was falling behind on, on lectures. And [01:03:05] I think that when I got my results for that, I think a lot of my friends as well did really well. Um, and [01:03:10] then I got my grades and you compare yourself because this is the first time where you’re in a room of people who are [01:03:15] super, super smart, everyone, they’re smart, and you start to compare yourself and say, what am I doing wrong to? To [01:03:20] not be getting the grades I should be getting. But I mean, over time, I. I did become a lot more, [01:03:25] you know, to terms with the fact that in dental school you’re not going to always get the best grades. And it’s okay, especially [01:03:30] in first year when I was learning things that were not relevant to dentistry, and [01:03:35] it was just a lot of theory heavy. So that was like a humbling experience, I think. Yeah, that day [01:03:40] got me down, but I don’t know if that’s. Yeah, I’m trying to think if there might have been a darker day.

Payman Langroudi: Have [01:03:45] you made any errors?

Alisha Sagar: Um, the one error that I, I think we haven’t been [01:03:50] doing dentistry that long for me. I think they will come a day and I’ve come [01:03:55] to terms with that, that people will make mistakes that are big. But, um, one, [01:04:00] uh, experience I always go back to and I think it’s funny to look at it now, [01:04:05] but it taught me a good lesson of counting teeth was, um, I didn’t extract the wrong tooth, don’t worry. But [01:04:10] it was in second year. First patient. First patient was my now fiance. So he [01:04:15] was my boyfriend Then I was like, can I book you? And he needed, I think, a fissure sealant or something. [01:04:20] And I was like, I’ll book him in. It will be good. First patient, nothing to worry about. [01:04:25] And the tutor, just for experience sake, was like, put a rubber dam and clamp on just so that, you know, even [01:04:30] though you’re just doing fissure sealant. Good experience. So put the rubber dam and clamp on. And [01:04:35] I think we all know where this is going. I thought I did a sick job, I was like, wow, my rubber dam looks amazing. Call [01:04:40] my tutor over. And she looks at it. She’s like, what do you think you did wrong? And and she was. And [01:04:45] I was thinking, this looks amazing. I don’t know what you’re asking about. And I was like, um, did I just start being, [01:04:50] like a little bit critical and things I didn’t actually think were true? And she was like, you’ve clamped the wrong tooth. And I was like, [01:04:55] oh my gosh, this is so embarrassing. And, uh, yeah.

[TRANSITION]: I.

Natalie Gabrawi: Didn’t break [01:05:00] up with you.

Alisha Sagar: And yeah, that that experience taught me that. Don’t [01:05:05] be overconfident and count your teeth. And silly mistakes like this [01:05:10] can happen.

[TRANSITION]: So you’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Never perforated.

[TRANSITION]: You’ve never I haven’t perforated.

Alisha Sagar: I was close to perforating [01:05:15] for one of my patients, but thankfully I kind of. I was like, this access cavity [01:05:20] is too big, I need to call my EOS in. She was like, take an x ray, took an x ray. She was like, you can’t go [01:05:25] any further, um, because you will perforate. So these mistakes do happen. But touchwood, [01:05:30] that hasn’t happened.

Payman Langroudi: What about a learning point? Clinically, like you saw, you did something. It didn’t [01:05:35] work. You realised to pay more attention to something.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What was that? Surely you must have had [01:05:40] a few of those.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I think I think probably my communication. I think my communication is good. But when it [01:05:45] comes down to you having all these patients and you’re basically making [01:05:50] the decisions now, you’ve not got a tutor standing behind you to back you up. So I think I’ve had a couple [01:05:55] of situations where I reflected on possibly I could have communicated something better, [01:06:00] and I’ll reflect on a specific case with a patient who came in for a check-up. And I [01:06:05] took some X-rays, very deep caries, probably 6 or 7 carious lesions, very close [01:06:10] to pulp, three of them. And I did put across that, you know, very high risk root canal treatment, [01:06:15] um, extraction that. But I think one thing I didn’t touch upon was post-operative [01:06:20] pain, and, uh, did a couple of fillings. Fine. Then it came to the [01:06:25] one of the molars where I treated, and a couple days after he called reception [01:06:30] and he was like, I’m in so much pain. And it was excruciating. The tooth ended up needing [01:06:35] to have a root canal, but I reflected a lot on that case in terms of communication. And yeah, [01:06:40] I think that’s obviously the biggest thing. But yeah, I think making sure that [01:06:45] you touch on every single possibility and it wasn’t something that I purposely left behind, I just didn’t [01:06:50] really emphasise it as much as I probably should have. So that’s happened. But it taught me, and I think that’s [01:06:55] why I’ve loved Foundation, in the sense that you just hit a lot of learning curves and you learn so much [01:07:00] in terms of your communication and how that can improve every day. I’m learning, and I think.

[TRANSITION]: In.

Payman Langroudi: A situation you’re [01:07:05] super proud of, like something you did in the last year, that’s really been amazing.

Alisha Sagar: Oh yeah. So this was my case [01:07:10] presentation Patient for foundation year. Lovely patient. She came in and she [01:07:15] didn’t even want to smile at me. And when I looked at her teeth, I. I understood why. To [01:07:20] be honest, it carries everywhere. Was that typical green caries on the on the anterior teeth? And, [01:07:25] uh. Yeah. Planned for a couple of extractions, couple of fillings and dentures. And [01:07:30] honestly, like, when we fit the denture, I was really worried because it was an immediate fit [01:07:35] and I didn’t think it was going to fit right. Um, but if it amazing and like [01:07:40] that was the first time where I, I saw like a huge impact on, on a, [01:07:45] on a patient. Normally it’s just like a, you know, a small thing. But she when she looked in the mirror and she smiled [01:07:50] like that literally just made my day and she just she kept hugging me and the nurse, she was like, I can’t believe this. Like it.

[TRANSITION]: Was.

Natalie Gabrawi: Unrecognisable. [01:07:55]

Alisha Sagar: Yeah. And it was. Yeah. And like the first picture before was just of the teeth because she didn’t [01:08:00] want to smile to the camera. And then when we got her to smile to the camera and she smiled, it [01:08:05] was just like a new person. So that’s something that case is something I’m super proud of. Um. But [01:08:10] yeah, it taught me a lot. And.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, so amazing. You know, that genuine thank you from a patient. [01:08:15]

Alisha Sagar: That that feels. I think.

[TRANSITION]: That’s.

Alisha Sagar: The.

[TRANSITION]: Best feeling in the world.

Payman Langroudi: Part of.

[TRANSITION]: Dentistry.

Alisha Sagar: Oh, 100%.

Payman Langroudi: It’s such [01:08:20] a weird thing.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: No, I, I don’t you just feel a different way when, like, you can and you can see [01:08:25] it on their face. It’s not just like, you know, obviously patients are grateful and most of the time they will say thank [01:08:30] you. But when you see that when I saw the expression change, just a whole new personality come through, [01:08:35] that was something that I was super proud of and it made me like, want to do that for every patient. But obviously I [01:08:40] know not everyone’s gonna need a, you know, full mouth transformation, but.

[TRANSITION]: But.

Payman Langroudi: Implants, you [01:08:45] can really you can change lives with implants more than the rest of dentistry because, you know, not only [01:08:50] the way you look, the way you eat. Yeah. You know, there’s there’s so many people, like, embarrassed of removable [01:08:55] items in their mouths.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You change someone’s life completely.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: And I think I saw that when I was shadowing [01:09:00] Tony when he did an all on four and all on six case, and like, it [01:09:05] was just a different person when when when they looked at at this smile and these [01:09:10] were just the temporaries and looking at the cases together and just seeing what could be done to achieve [01:09:15] that result was amazing. I couldn’t even when one of the patients walked in for a review, I, [01:09:20] I was shocked that that was all implants in his mouth. It just looked so natural. [01:09:25] So him you wouldn’t even be able to tell that that was a different smile before. [01:09:30] Yeah. And then when you look at the before pictures, you’re like, wow, that’s insane. Like the transformation. [01:09:35] Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Natalie.

Payman Langroudi: If we’re talking darkest day.

Natalie Gabrawi: So I [01:09:40] unlike Nietzsche, I do have a specific patient. Um, so I’ve broken [01:09:45] a file before in a patient’s mouth. And that day when, when that happened, I was [01:09:50] like, oh, my gosh, I am the worst dentist ever. And I felt not only bad for the patient, [01:09:55] I just felt how could I? The patient came in needing a root canal has broken [01:10:00] out with a file in her mouth. I was like, that’s crazy. And then after talking to the dentist, [01:10:05] it does happen. And even when I’m going to do DCT next year, we do file retrieval and things like [01:10:10] that. And that’s what pushed me to do that more. And but what I realised, the main thing [01:10:15] I took from that is one make sure you only fair enough. But two the patient [01:10:20] left apologising to me. She felt bad that I broke the file in her mouth and I was like no, no, no. [01:10:25] Like it’s fine. Like it’s just the way her anatomy was. It was a very curved upper right six. [01:10:30] And I realised with that good communication, it doesn’t all have to be like the scariest [01:10:35] thing in the world. Not every patient is going to, um, yeah. Like they do understand if you’ve communicated the [01:10:40] risks and the benefits and what can happen, then it will be fine. But I remember thinking, am I going to Alicia [01:10:45] and going to the fact I was like, oh no, Alicia, you’re never going to guess. Like, I just feel like it’s such a bad dentist [01:10:50] and.

[TRANSITION]: It’s so easy. Fast break. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: I didn’t realise that in the moment.

[TRANSITION]: It’s not one of those.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not [01:10:55] even one of those mistakes you can learn much from, you.

[TRANSITION]: Know, because.

Natalie Gabrawi: I’ve.

[TRANSITION]: Kind of felt what you’ve done.

Payman Langroudi: Differently. It’s weird. [01:11:00]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: That’s I probably would have referred earlier maybe or referred on the NHS, But then. [01:11:05]

[TRANSITION]: So.

Payman Langroudi: Are you saying when I say darkest day, that that error caused you proper [01:11:10] anxiety?

[TRANSITION]: Like I caused you stress, anxious person.

Natalie Gabrawi: So not a lot will cause me [01:11:15] stress, I think. Yeah, I felt really bad for the patient. But darkest day in dentistry. [01:11:20] There was one time we got our sjt results and I didn’t rank that great. [01:11:25] And then me and Alicia had like, oh, we were going to live together. We’re going to be in the same practice or next to each other. [01:11:30] And then we got our results. This was before we knew where we were going to, what practice we were going to be in. And [01:11:35] I was like, oh, we’re going to be so far. We’re never going to get to live together. I think that for me was probably [01:11:40] worse than anything I’ve done.

[TRANSITION]: To to.

Natalie Gabrawi: Oh.

[TRANSITION]: I know friendship, [01:11:45] honestly.

Alisha Sagar: And I was like, no. Then we were like, we will make it work. If you’re in Southampton and I’m in reading, we’re living [01:11:50] in Basingstoke. Yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: And then it works out. We’re both reading really good practices. [01:11:55] Um, but yeah, I think I put a lot of expectation on myself to live [01:12:00] with Alicia or be near her because I knew she was also going to be [01:12:05] with her fiance for a few years, so this was the only chance we would have had. And yeah, it worked out eventually, but I think [01:12:10] in the moment I was like, no.

Payman Langroudi: So we’re planning this little living together [01:12:15] thing to go on for how long? At least.

[TRANSITION]: A year.

Alisha Sagar: So next year she’s in London and I’m in Southampton. [01:12:20] So the journey ends here.

Natalie Gabrawi: It’ll be the furthest we’ve been apart.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:12:25] you’ve already decided you’re going to do two years?

[TRANSITION]: No, no.

Alisha Sagar: It’s. So Southampton is one year. [01:12:30]

[TRANSITION]: Oh, sorry.

Alisha Sagar: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So next year we won’t be living together.

Payman Langroudi: Next year you won’t be.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s [01:12:35] already kind of like.

[TRANSITION]: Coming to an end.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, but it’s been a good year.

Natalie Gabrawi: It’s been a great year. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What else [01:12:40] can we say in three years time. What do you you could you want hopes and dreams like. Like [01:12:45] I mean, I don’t know, like financial goals. Like this year you’re earning [01:12:50] nothing, right? It’s like terrible. Yeah. I remember getting more in debt this year.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like. [01:12:55]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: When rent took out a big chunk of our. [01:13:00]

Alisha Sagar: Paycheque.

Natalie Gabrawi: This year. Yeah, I want to. I just want to. I think most my [01:13:05] paycheque, if I get a decent amount, I want to donate it and reinvest it back into people. [01:13:10] I think a lot of people have done a lot for Shanghai throughout uni. We’ve had a lot of mentorship and [01:13:15] I think I just want to give back and help other people get to where we are. If we’re somewhere very [01:13:20] successful in three years.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, I think similar to Natalie, I want to be at a place where [01:13:25] financially I can help others as well and then also have enough [01:13:30] to travel more, I think.

Natalie Gabrawi: Do you go to Australia?

Alisha Sagar: Yes, [01:13:35] I do want to travel more, and I just want to be at a place where I don’t. I think it’s important to budget. I’ve [01:13:40] always been quite good with budgeting, even if I’m earning a lot. Let’s say [01:13:45] I don’t like spending money on things that I know are pointless. So I’m. I’d [01:13:50] like to think I’m quite smart with my money, so I just want to. Yeah. So yeah, financially, [01:13:55] I’d want to be at a place where I’m comfortable and can also help. I want to give some money back as well [01:14:00] to some of the places in Zambia as well that I grew up around. Like there’s a couple of orphanages around [01:14:05] where I lived that I would go and volunteer at, and they they have nothing. So [01:14:10] just giving back to the communities.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, I know you had Andrea on here and he does [01:14:15] the mobile smile. So I really want to get involved in that and.

[TRANSITION]: Do.

Natalie Gabrawi: More of their mission trips. Looks [01:14:20] insane. Yeah, they they do a lot. And I think I’ve always said I wanted to do one of their missions. [01:14:25] So hopefully one day I will.

[TRANSITION]: Do you know him?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah. We grew up together, actually. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: So. [01:14:30]

Natalie Gabrawi: Uh, so because he was from Derby, so it’s.

[TRANSITION]: Oh that’s.

Natalie Gabrawi: Similar. Yeah. So we used to go to the [01:14:35] same church growing up.

[TRANSITION]: Really?

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah. Um, but yeah, I do want to. I think it’s [01:14:40] such a good cause and great stuff that they’re doing. Lovely guy. Yeah. Good guy.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [01:14:45]

Payman Langroudi: Alright, so we do want to end this pod with, um, a fantasy dinner party. I’ll [01:14:50] be interested. Maybe in three years time. You have different.

[TRANSITION]: Answers to that question.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but right now, [01:14:55] if you could have dinner with any three people, dead or alive, who [01:15:00] would you choose?

Alisha Sagar: Do you want to go first?

Natalie Gabrawi: So I think I’ve never met [01:15:05] my grandads. I definitely from either my mom or dad’s side. Yeah. So I really want to meet them, [01:15:10] ask them so many questions about what my parents were like as kids, because my parents seem like such great role models now. [01:15:15] But I know my dad’s probably spilt milk somewhere or done something cheap, you know? Um, so yeah, [01:15:20] either one of those or maybe both of them. I don’t know if this is a cop out answer, but maybe my younger self. [01:15:25] Yeah, I think I would probably tell her to, um. Yeah. Just to [01:15:30] keep smiling. Don’t let anything get to you and just tell her that. Yeah, we are where we are now. And [01:15:35] I think just to stay positive.

Payman Langroudi: It’s going to be alright kind of thing.

Natalie Gabrawi: Yeah, it’s going to be all right. And [01:15:40] lastly, maybe Lewis Hamilton I think I’m [01:15:45] really into formula one. Yeah I really love it. And he was one of the drivers [01:15:50] that his dad had to work three, three, four jobs to get him to where he is. And I think [01:15:55] he sounds like he comes from a very humble background, and I just would love to just sit down and just [01:16:00] chat to him and see. See what? Maybe drive a formula one car one day. Maybe [01:16:05] that would be my three year goal.

[TRANSITION]: But yeah.

Natalie Gabrawi: I think those would be my three.

Alisha Sagar: Um, so [01:16:10] first I’m going to go with is my granddad. He is alive. He lives in India. [01:16:15] Um, he and my grandma, they grew up. They [01:16:20] were in Zambia as well. So we grew up around them a lot. And they played a huge role in the in the person who I am today [01:16:25] and in my upbringing. So honestly, any day that I could pick [01:16:30] anyone to have dinner with, if it was every day I would pick my granddad. I was very I’m still very, very close to him. [01:16:35] Call him every week. We just have really good chats and yeah, he’s just such a wise guy. I [01:16:40] learn a lot from him every time I talk to him, so I’d pick him up. This one, [01:16:45] this one’s probably a bit of a random one, but I’m a very curious person and I love to read up on conspiracy [01:16:50] theories. So I’m going to go with someone from the Egyptian empire, because I’d want to know how the pyramids [01:16:55] were built. So I’m very intrigued about that sort of stuff. So I’d go with that. [01:17:00] And then finally, I’d probably go with maybe [01:17:05] Princess Diana because every Asian mom is obsessed with her. So [01:17:10] I grew up with my mom being obsessed with her, with my aunties being obsessed with her, and I’ve just watched a lot of her [01:17:15] interviews. I think she’s seems like an amazing person. She did a lot of humanitarian work, brought [01:17:20] a lot of attention to a lot of world topics that previously didn’t have attention. So I think she would just be a [01:17:25] phenomenal woman to talk to and just, yeah, get her insight on. I think she also humanised the royal [01:17:30] family in certain ways, and that was amazing to to watch as well. And how open she was. [01:17:35] Very true to herself, very like Boss Woman. Didn’t care what other people thought. Yeah. I just think she [01:17:40] would be amazing to me. So yeah, her.

Payman Langroudi: As a conspiracy theorist.

Alisha Sagar: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: What do [01:17:45] you think happened to her?

Alisha Sagar: Oh I’m not.

[TRANSITION]: I don’t say anything.

Alisha Sagar: I don’t want to say anything.

[TRANSITION]: On. [01:17:50]

Alisha Sagar: On video.

[TRANSITION]: I do want to know what happened. Yeah.

Alisha Sagar: I just want to know.

Payman Langroudi: That’s why you wanted the party, right? [01:17:55]

[TRANSITION]: I mean, yeah.

Alisha Sagar: That’s that’s.

[TRANSITION]: Literally.

Alisha Sagar: Yeah, but [01:18:00] there’s three people. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I really enjoyed this.

Alisha Sagar: No. Same. This has.

Natalie Gabrawi: Been amazing.

Payman Langroudi: Thank [01:18:05] you so much for coming.

[TRANSITION]: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.

[VOICE]: This [01:18:10] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one [01:18:15] on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:18:20] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:18:25] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. [01:18:30] And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve [01:18:35] had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. [01:18:40]

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