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[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:35] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders [00:00:40] in dentistry. Your hosts [00:00:45] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great [00:00:50] pleasure to welcome Doctor Adeel Ali onto the podcast. Adeel is a very accomplished [00:00:55] implantologist um, multiple practice owner here and there, [00:01:00] buying and selling practices. Recently moved to Qatar. That’s right. Also [00:01:05] teacher. Mentor. Author. You do a lot. Dude.

Adeel Ali: You’re [00:01:10] making me blush, man. I’ve never thought of it like that. But you.

Payman Langroudi: Do do.

Adeel Ali: A lot. Yeah, just. Just done a little bit in the [00:01:15] seven years of being dentist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Have you always been that gap?

Adeel Ali: Like, [00:01:20] I’ve always been hard working. Hard work? I mean, that’s one thing that I’ve always [00:01:25] sort of focussed on. You know, I was never gifted with clinical skills. I’ll be very honest with you, but I’ve [00:01:30] just always had a relentless attitude to working hard. It’s in my DNA. I think [00:01:35] I’ve got it from my father, to be honest with you. He was in retail for 40 years and, you [00:01:40] know, didn’t see him much. Woke up at 5 a.m., got home late.

Payman Langroudi: Did he have his own [00:01:45] shop?

Adeel Ali: No, he didn’t have his own shop. So he worked for. He’s been he’s worked in sort of Wickes, Asda, [00:01:50] uh, Booker, cash and carry, that sort of thing. So I just, I just from a young age just saw my [00:01:55] dad working really hard and I thought that that’s that’s what I want to be like. Just, you know, he’s he’s ingrained [00:02:00] that into me that, you know, work ethic trumps everything.

Payman Langroudi: It really does.

Adeel Ali: It does. [00:02:05] It does. You know, especially if you’re not clinically gifted like me. You know, just [00:02:10] just work at it.

Payman Langroudi: Do you mean that you’re not? I mean, do you really mean that?

Adeel Ali: I honestly, I really mean [00:02:15] that because, I mean, in when I went to university, I was, you know, when it came [00:02:20] to clinical skills, working on phantom heads, I used to feel a lot of pressure. You know, I had [00:02:25] good friends, all my friends and colleagues that, you know, could really.

Payman Langroudi: You were picking them up slower than the others.

Adeel Ali: I was [00:02:30] picking up, you know, really slow. You know, everybody’s good with a flat plastic and composite. I just really struggled [00:02:35] at it. Um, it was only until my fourth year when I met a really good clinical tutor of mine. I mentioned [00:02:40] it in the book as well, Doctor Heaton, he sort of sat me down and just really empowered me, you [00:02:45] know, really giving me that pep talk. And sometimes he didn’t say anything profound, but he just believed in [00:02:50] me as a person, what I could do. And then I think I started to pick up a momentum from about fourth year, and [00:02:55] it was only probably until I qualified and met my first mentor. Uh, [00:03:00] PhD plus one, my first job. That’s when things really started to [00:03:05] to pick up for me.

Payman Langroudi: I see that sometimes here with some, some people are better in institutions. [00:03:10] Yeah, like my brother loves school. Loved university. Terrible at work. [00:03:15] Doesn’t like work constantly. You know, for the last 30 years, he’s been making the same complaints about work. Yeah, [00:03:20] but institutionalised in that sense. My brother’s kind of guy. He likes rules.

Adeel Ali: Rules [00:03:25] and regs.

Payman Langroudi: He likes rules, whereas I’m the opposite.

Adeel Ali: I agree, I’m a little bit like you.

Payman Langroudi: Totally. [00:03:30] And so does people like me and you. Sometimes we struggle through school and university, but. But we love the [00:03:35] world of work. Absolutely. Much more. And I find in work you can make a bigger difference [00:03:40] to yourself. Absolutely. By by by just your actions.

Adeel Ali: Absolutely. [00:03:45] And I think, I think working as a young, uh, young adult as well [00:03:50] really helps outside of dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: Did you do that?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah. So my first job was in a lady’s [00:03:55] shoe shoe store. That’s where I learned sales.

Payman Langroudi: Like Oxford Street or something.

Adeel Ali: No no no no no, [00:04:00] not as prime as that. It was north London wood green. Oh, really? Yeah. Really [00:04:05] handling some really difficult customers, you know. So I used to work on the shop floor as a 16 year old getting paid, [00:04:10] what, £3, 20 an hour.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve noticed that pattern too, when people sitting where you’re sitting. Yeah, a [00:04:15] lot of the most successful ones used to work when they were kids.

Adeel Ali: You just learned the value of money. And, [00:04:20] you know, I’ve said to my.

Payman Langroudi: Kids, work.

Adeel Ali: Well, I was just going to come on to that because I’ve said, my my son [00:04:25] loves Nando’s and he’s 14 now. So when he when he gets an opportunity to work when he’s 16. [00:04:30] So you’re going to work at Nando’s and you’re gonna learn to service people. You’re going to learn to service your [00:04:35] oldest. He’s my eldest. Yeah. That’s right. So I’ve got I’ve got three children. He’s the oldest. And I’ve [00:04:40] said to him, you’re going to learn to service people. You’re going to look him in the eye. When you shake somebody’s hand, you you have a firm grip. [00:04:45] And just these are cardinal principles, you know, that you need as an individual [00:04:50] to be very, very successful. I don’t mind what they do in their life, but they know they need to know how to network [00:04:55] with people, how to be confident, and how to have a presence about them for sure. [00:05:00]

Payman Langroudi: See, I did. My parents made me go to Oxford Street and get a job when I was around 16 or 17, and [00:05:05] they were absolutely right to do that because I was a spoilt kid, probably spoilt, [00:05:10] and I only stuck at the job for a couple of weeks. Yeah. Um, over a summer holiday. [00:05:15] Um, but I think back on those two weeks and think I learned [00:05:20] more in those two weeks than I learned in the whole of school, because you just the number of different people [00:05:25] you meet.

Adeel Ali: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: But I didn’t manage to get my son to [00:05:30] do. My son’s just done his A-levels. 18 and, um, it was always a [00:05:35] question of should he focus on studies or should he focus on on work. He’s very good at school. [00:05:40] And um, also another failure on [00:05:45] my part doesn’t need money. Yeah. And something that I found out [00:05:50] the people who had jobs here. The real driver wasn’t their parents saying, go [00:05:55] work like me. The real driver was they want to buy an Xbox or something and they didn’t have the money. [00:06:00] So that’s how they got the money.

Adeel Ali: Well, well, this is it, I think. I think we’re probably in the same boat here. It’s [00:06:05] a challenge. You know, look, my my kids have never been to a, uh, [00:06:10] other than a five star hotel. I’ll be very honest with you about it. And how do you instil that work ethic? [00:06:15] And then when they probably don’t really need it. I mean, I came from a position of very humble beginnings. You [00:06:20] know, I saw my dad, my mom and dad whenever they argue, most of the time it was about money, always about [00:06:25] money. I remember my dad, you know, shouting at the electric, you know, electricity company, water [00:06:30] company. Why is they build this much? And that just still rings in my head today. I remember one day, you know, [00:06:35] a guy comes in, I didn’t know who he was. He just went under the stairs, opened the cupboard, and he just switched something off and the [00:06:40] electricity was off. Do you see what I mean? So I just had a phobia of. I just didn’t want that life. [00:06:45] So for me, it came from the I’ve got to work hard because I just don’t want financial problems. [00:06:50] But we do.

Payman Langroudi: Do you not budget? I mean, like some people pull that off too. Yeah. Yeah. Extremely [00:06:55] rich people, but they budget the kid very tightly. So the kid understands money. [00:07:00] Now, not that I’m crazy buying my kids everything, you know, under the sun, but [00:07:05] they want something. It just tends to appear from Amazon. And it’s not. It’s not like. [00:07:10] It’s not like they’ve budgeted for it. And I’ve made a mistake there. I’ve made a mistake.

Adeel Ali: I just think you’re normal. [00:07:15] And it’s just about being real. You know, I’ve got all these intentions of, you know, putting a budget in place, but, you know, have you [00:07:20] heard of this Gohenry card thing?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. They’ve got it.

Adeel Ali: They’ve got it. Yeah. And then, [00:07:25] um, I’ll get something pinged on my NatWest app and then I’m shouting, oh, what have you ordered? It’s [00:07:30] probably a fortnight.

Payman Langroudi: I didn’t even realise I’d made this mistake until [00:07:35] one day I bought a car vacuum cleaner. I thought, that’s [00:07:40] a good idea. Car vacuum cleaner. It arrived. I was going to go try it out. And [00:07:45] I thought, wait a minute. This is the opportunity, isn’t it? Get the kids to do it. So they were both sitting there on their [00:07:50] phones and I said, I’m paying £5 to anyone who goes and vacuums [00:07:55] my car. They didn’t even look up from their phones. So then I was like [00:08:00] £10 and now we’re getting down to like £65.

Adeel Ali: No one on [00:08:05] the phone.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I know, and I realised I would have done it for £65 now. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:08:10] so they just don’t need cash. My kids. And so I’m going to try. My daughter’s 15. I’m going to try now. [00:08:15] Yeah. To instil budget.

Adeel Ali: I’m just I’m just hoping that they they get [00:08:20] a job. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Like, there’s got to be some sort of, like, reason to get that job. Right.

Adeel Ali: Well, [00:08:25] the thing is, you know, if they don’t like it, it’s going to be for me. It’s going to be tough luck. You’ve got to work at least [00:08:30] one day a week. Then you understand the value of money, how hard it is to earn, you [00:08:35] know, six, seven, £10 an hour and how easy it is to spend. I think that’s the only real way [00:08:40] they’re going to learn when they develop the value, you know? But I’m pretty I’m pretty strict with my kids [00:08:45] in terms of physical exercise. You know, we live in Qatar now. So they’ve got, you know, we’ve got a little bit more flexibility. [00:08:50] But you know, when we go to work in the summer holidays, you know, so make sure you do your half an hour run. Make sure you’re [00:08:55] doing 100 press ups 100 sit ups. You know, just trying to instil instil that.

Payman Langroudi: The oldest is 14.

Adeel Ali: And [00:09:00] then then we’ve got, I’ve got uh, a 11 year old girl and then my [00:09:05] princess, five year old.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s it’s hard.

Adeel Ali: To it’s hard man. You’ve got to have good, good [00:09:10] family dynamics. Just I think I attribute a lot to my wife as well. She’s been relentless in supporting me in my [00:09:15] Dental career. But being, you know, a great mother and supporting with the business as [00:09:20] well, I think, you know, for, for women, um, they’ve just got wear so many hats, [00:09:25] you know, it’s easy. I mean, it’s to be honest, people still do it. How have you done it? I was like, you know [00:09:30] what? I’ve just worked hard, but I haven’t had to think about multiple things. I’ve just had a really strong, [00:09:35] very, extremely supportive wife that supported me but hasn’t neglected the family [00:09:40] roles and upbringing of the children and so forth. So family dynamics. And I talk to my mentees a lot about [00:09:45] this is so key. You know, I usually I had a I had a mentee of mine, [00:09:50] um, showed me an x ray. You know, said, oh, look, doc, I’ve done these implants. What do you think about positions [00:09:55] and things? I said, yeah, it looks good, but what’s your relationship with your wife? At the moment? I’m more interested [00:10:00] in the family dynamics, you know, because as, as part of mentorship, it’s just not about [00:10:05] this transactional relationship where we’re just talking about clinical. I want to know about, you know, your wife, [00:10:10] how’s your relationship with your kids? Because certainly my mentor did that for me. And I think that’s one of [00:10:15] the gripes I have about mentorship. You know, it’s just what we see now is just like sort of [00:10:20] a clinical relationship. But we I like to go deep with my mentees. Yeah, 100%, [00:10:25] 100%.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, in order to to achieve what you’ve achieved, there [00:10:30] must have been a degree of sacrifice.

Adeel Ali: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re saying you [00:10:35] that sacrifice wasn’t with family. So where was the sacrifice? I mean, you’re you’re clearly looking [00:10:40] after yourself now.

Adeel Ali: No, I did sacrifice time with the kids. [00:10:45] Did you? But. But it’s how my wife explained it to [00:10:50] the children, right? Papa’s gone. He’s working hard. Why is he working hard? He’s working hard. So [00:10:55] you can go to school. You can go to private school. You can have food, you know. Papa, you know, takes [00:11:00] care of the bills. He does this so the kids have got a good image of their [00:11:05] father. That’s. That’s key, you know? Um. So do I regret not spending [00:11:10] time with the kids? I think a lot of people do. I don’t because I had no choice. It’s either we do this or we [00:11:15] don’t. Do you see what I mean? So, you know, I haven’t spent much time with the kids as they were growing up. I [00:11:20] have no regrets about it. I’ll be very honest about it because it’s either, you know, you either sink or swim. [00:11:25] You know, I haven’t had anything handed out, so you’ve got to work.

Payman Langroudi: Plus plus they learn by osmosis as well. Yeah, just [00:11:30] like you learn from your dad. Yeah, exactly. Like no one sat down and had to explain to you that dad has to be at work. He [00:11:35] just did it. Yeah, he just did it. But. But what I’m saying is, often in your situation, [00:11:40] you know, implant work, you have to prepare the surgery. You have to. You have to be there early and [00:11:45] then you’re staying there late. Yeah. So were there times where you weren’t seeing your kids during [00:11:50] the week, like literally leaving.

Adeel Ali: The house to drive? I mean, when I was working for corporate, I used to I lived [00:11:55] in north London, so I used to drive from north London to Southend on Sea.

Payman Langroudi: Oh [00:12:00] my God. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Oh yeah. That does I did that for ten years. Yeah. Wow. And then from Southend to Sea to do evening shift [00:12:05] in my first squad that I had in Wapping near Canary Wharf. And [00:12:10] then from there I used to come home so he’d come home at 11. So I did that. And then I used to work in Norfolk, [00:12:15] Norfolk two days back to back. So I used to drive there 2.5 hours, [00:12:20] then do a full day of implants, then drive back 2.5 hours.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t stay the night.

Adeel Ali: Sometimes you used to stay the [00:12:25] night, but sometimes you used to miss the family, you know? No, but, you know, sometimes staying the night [00:12:30] in a dusty old B&B that gets you even more depressed. I said, you know, screw that. I’m going to drive back [00:12:35] home, you know, back aching. And then what comes with that is bad lifestyle choices when it comes to [00:12:40] food. Yeah. So they used to be McDonald’s. Uh, drive thru, just fillet [00:12:45] burger. You know how it is. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, you know, you do that for five, six years, and that takes a toll on you [00:12:50] as well. So, um, so, yeah, there’s been huge sacrifices, but, uh, I’m [00:12:55] very grateful to God that he gave me these opportunities that I’ve had. And, [00:13:00] yeah, I haven’t spent as much time with the family, but the family understood what we’re trying [00:13:05] to do here, and which gave me the opportunity to to build the practice of my dreams. Now, I [00:13:10] kind of look at it, you know, I’m not comparing myself to David Beckham, but you know that him, his wife and [00:13:15] his children are all in sync. And as a family, they’re moving forward. And, you know, we try [00:13:20] and we try and think of us like this. Teamwork, teamwork. The kids are on. They know that [00:13:25] mom and dad are driving. And like you said, through osmosis that they’re seeing this. And [00:13:30] they say, you know what? Because I want them to to be inspired by us. I don’t want them to look at x, y, and Z. I say, this is what [00:13:35] your mom and dad are doing. You’re not just in the in the business domain, but in terms of, [00:13:40] um, you know, integrity, credibility, how we deal with people, you know, I want them to look up to us. So [00:13:45] it’s Team Ali.

Payman Langroudi: How old were you when you had your first kid?

Adeel Ali: 26. [00:13:50]

Payman Langroudi: So is there, like, left over me time? [00:13:55] You haven’t done.

Adeel Ali: With my wife?

Payman Langroudi: Just you. Just you, like, like [00:14:00] 26 is very young for the first kid.

Adeel Ali: Married at 24.

Payman Langroudi: So you came out, then scored. Married.

Adeel Ali: Married? [00:14:05] Yeah. So 26. Had my first one. 28. Had my second one.

Payman Langroudi: So was that on [00:14:10] purpose?

Adeel Ali: Like on purpose.

Payman Langroudi: You sort of fall into that or was that decide decide you were going [00:14:15] to get married.

Adeel Ali: Do you know what I just wanted? If I could, I’d probably do it again. [00:14:20] Um, because I’ve been very family oriented and I wanted to be a young dad.

Payman Langroudi: Why?

Adeel Ali: I [00:14:25] just wanted to grow with my kids. I wanted to be that cool, dad, you know? You know, I [00:14:30] do get a kick out of you. I still say to my kids, you know, I’m probably the toughest dad, you know, out of your mates, you [00:14:35] know, or, you know, like, I just. I always wanted to be a young dad growing with my kids. [00:14:40] Um, I’ve actually said to my eldest, you know, when you turn 20, I’ll be 46 and we’re going [00:14:45] to have a muay Thai sparring match, and I’m going, I said, you better get prepared because I’m preparing myself from [00:14:50] now. You know I’m not. The gloves are going to be on. I’m going to go all out. So he’s he knows that [00:14:55] at the back of his head.

Payman Langroudi: So I’m curious about that because I was the opposite. I was I was definitely [00:15:00] didn’t want to do that.

Adeel Ali: As in didn’t want to do the.

Payman Langroudi: Like have kids, young kids, young. I [00:15:05] wanted to have kids as late as possible, as.

Adeel Ali: Late as.

Payman Langroudi: Possible. Because it’s interesting. I thought that, you know, you’ve got to enjoy [00:15:10] your life before kids come along. Yeah. And then, you know, once kids come along, it’s all over. It’s [00:15:15] all. Do you know, that was the feeling I had in my head?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, I think I think you can do it with kids. I can do. And for me, I [00:15:20] just wanted to excel in every domain in my life. So, look, I wanted [00:15:25] to grow as an implantologist. I wanted to grow in business, but I wanted I didn’t want to. I wanted to grow the family as well. I just [00:15:30] wanted to move all the chips.

Payman Langroudi: At the same time. You didn’t want to grow as a single man.

Adeel Ali: Didn’t want [00:15:35] to grow as a single.

Payman Langroudi: Man. So you see what I mean? You chose. You chose where you wanted to go.

Adeel Ali: I knew this journey is going to be [00:15:40] tough in implant. And I needed my right hand person, which is my wife. I needed a good wife [00:15:45] because, you know, for me, um, you know, for me, it’s different [00:15:50] between having a partner and a and a wife that is there 24 over seven. You live and breathe every [00:15:55] day together, especially in this journey of implantology. It’s all, you know, glamour and [00:16:00] glitz that a deal is doing. This implant has a practice, I tell you, the conversations we’ve had at night when it’s just me and her [00:16:05] in the bed talking stress litigation. You [00:16:10] you need that.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a lot of. Yeah. Yeah, there’s a lot of I mean for you you have to constantly [00:16:15] worry if one of your mentees is messing up. Oh, mate. Yeah. Like people underestimate [00:16:20] the level of, like, background stress that that is like, if you’ve done a hundred [00:16:25] full arch cases this year, that’s a hundred what ifs.

Adeel Ali: What ifs. [00:16:30]

Payman Langroudi: Just there.

Adeel Ali: And remember, just.

Payman Langroudi: With.

Adeel Ali: Your patients in the country anymore. So I’m relying on x rays and things. But and you [00:16:35] know, when I go in for reviews, I’ve had to call some. I’m very tough. I’m very, very tough on my mentees [00:16:40] because. But they know I’m coming from a place of respect because I, I say to them, do you want me to treat you like [00:16:45] a mediocre so? Or do you want me to treat you like a high performer? Choose [00:16:50] a deal. I want you to treat me like a high performer. Then I just I just go in there and I said, that’s [00:16:55] wrong. That’s wrong. Why have you done this? You know, I had one one of my, um, one of my mentees [00:17:00] recently. He was doing a full arch, but he wanted to keep one of the molars. Fine. [00:17:05] Um, I reviewed the patient, and the molars still had caries in it. I [00:17:10] said, that is just totally unacceptable to me. And what it what it. And I spoke to him about it, [00:17:15] and I said, I know why you’re probably really tired. [00:17:20] Um, and he goes, yeah, but he needed a root canal. But I’ve, I’ve, [00:17:25] I’ve sort of made a judgement about you and your character just from that, that [00:17:30] you’re not going willing to go the extra mile.

Payman Langroudi: Attention to detail.

Adeel Ali: Attention to detail. Can [00:17:35] you see? I said to him. Can you see the impression that you’re giving me here? And I just [00:17:40] made him accountable for it. And now. But that’s how I am with my guys. But to succeed in [00:17:45] implantology you have, you can’t lose that sensitivity. You find a lot of implant surgeons, [00:17:50] just especially younger ones, that are getting into implantology so quick without a solid foundation [00:17:55] in restorative occlusion aesthetics. They just want to go straight into implantology and [00:18:00] they’re losing their sensitivity to to patient care to to, you know, just general dentistry. That’s dangerous. [00:18:05]

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about your journey, because it doesn’t sound the kind of person who [00:18:10] struggles a little bit in dental school, doesn’t sound like the kind of person who then decide to go into implantology. [00:18:15] So you said you had a flip?

Adeel Ali: I had a flip. Yeah. So [00:18:20] with my first one.

Payman Langroudi: So.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. So I applied for a I came [00:18:25] obviously I did my VTI in Northampton and came back home and I was looking for [00:18:30] an associate job. Yeah. So, um, we used to go to BJ jobs. [00:18:35] Yeah. Yeah. Is that still about BJ?

[BOTH]: Yeah. Bj jobs? No, there was [00:18:40] there was a practice in Willesden.

Adeel Ali: And, uh, I phoned the number up and, um, [00:18:45] left a message, put the phone down. Instantly I got a phone call back [00:18:50] and the gentleman’s name was doctor. And he said, you’re the. I’ve had so many phone [00:18:55] calls, but you’re the only guy that left me a voice message. Why should I hire you? I [00:19:00] was like, well, I don’t have much skill, but I’ll outwork anyone. That’s all I said. [00:19:05] He said, come into the practice tomorrow. So I went there, he showed me around and he took me to [00:19:10] the cafe next door. He opened up his laptop. Then he started to show me the implant work [00:19:15] that he does. Here’s a sinus lift. This is a block graft. All [00:19:20] of his cases. This is a nerve repositioning. I was I was bamboozled, I said, I’ve is this [00:19:25] dentistry? What is this? So I just got sucked into him.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. But if [00:19:30] if I’m projecting backwards to my own, if that had happened to me, I would have seen that [00:19:35] stuff and gone, oh, shit. Like like, you know, because the idea of I didn’t like [00:19:40] blood at all. Yeah. Yeah. Not even a surgical extraction.

Adeel Ali: I think I think my mum and my mum summed it up very, [00:19:45] very well. She said, you know, I’ve got an older brother and she said, you know Shariq [00:19:50] who’s my older brother, if there was a puddle, he would walk around the puddle. A deal would jump two [00:19:55] foot in.

Payman Langroudi: To that kind of all or nothing, all in person.

Adeel Ali: All in. I am [00:20:00] always all in.

Payman Langroudi: So you saw that and you decided almost there and then decided this is the kind of thing I want to [00:20:05] do. I mean, how interesting.

Adeel Ali: I mean, I’ve always been all in and I play risk. I mean, one of [00:20:10] my good friends, uh, he’s always said to me, man, you just know how to execute.

[BOTH]: I [00:20:15] love.

Payman Langroudi: That guy. I love that guy. I love I love that guy. I don’t know why.

Adeel Ali: I [00:20:20] mentioned him in the book as well, but we I mean, he runs the Implant Growth Academy with me [00:20:25] as well. Oh, really? I’ve got a lot of love for him. He’s just moved to Dubai.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Yeah yeah. So he’s [00:20:30] he’s a very close brother of mine. And he said there’s one thing about you, you know, I wouldn’t say I’m the most refined [00:20:35] person. I’m not a spreadsheet guy. I’m not an analytical guy. I’ll sometimes shoot from the hip, [00:20:40] but, uh, I’m, you know, if I if I think, you know, I believe in something, I’ll go [00:20:45] all in and then try and convince my wife it’s the right thing. And usually [00:20:50] when I get it wrong, I go against her.

Payman Langroudi: So I guess. What did you do? You shadowed this guy.

Adeel Ali: I shadowed this guy. [00:20:55] And the first case I saw, he was doing a consultation for a patient [00:21:00] in. In a practice in Angel. So, you know, you’re [00:21:05] speaking to the patient. He doesn’t do veneers or whatever he was going to do, and he quoted him £30,000. [00:21:10]

Payman Langroudi: Now, you’d never heard that number.

Adeel Ali: I swear to God, I was [00:21:15] I was looking at the floor. I was embarrassed to even look. I didn’t know where to look. I was looking [00:21:20] at the floor and my leg was shaking, I was shaking. I’ve never heard of [00:21:25] a figure like £30,000 before. And the guy just just said okay. [00:21:30] And he nodded his head. And then he just told the nurse to mix the alginate and started taking him.

Payman Langroudi: I want [00:21:35] to stop you there. Yeah, because these numbers seem big here. And [00:21:40] by the way, the much bigger numbers, as you know, much, much bigger numbers than 30,000 can come up. Right. Yeah. [00:21:45] And when we’re so fresh out of dental school where we were doing everything for free, then [00:21:50] we were some NHS crap for pounds 20, then maybe if you’re lucky, you were doing [00:21:55] a filling for £100 a crown. If you’re lucky, you’re doing £500. Suddenly 30,000 [00:22:00] sounds like such a big number. Who would ever pay that? But if I turn round and said to you, you know, [00:22:05] God forbid something’s up with your mum, something in any area of medicine, [00:22:10] and it will cost 30 grand to fix. You’d pay the day off tomorrow.

Adeel Ali: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:22:15] so we forget that sometimes.

Adeel Ali: We forget that. And we forget. Especially in what I’m doing with full arch dentistry. [00:22:20] You know, some patients, you know, even.

Payman Langroudi: Life changing, it’s life.

Adeel Ali: Changing. Changing? Yes. You know, um, [00:22:25] in this I was speaking to a colleague the other day and they said, you know, um, some [00:22:30] of the CEOs in America, when patients can’t afford it, they’ve got some relationships [00:22:35] with the bank where they can release their money from their house, remortgage their house, or at least 41414441401401K. [00:22:40] And that’s how [00:22:45] I think is that I said, well, think about it. You know, if my do I value bricks [00:22:50] and mortar more than my wife. If my wife needed it, you know, do I [00:22:55] you know, I’m not materialistic. You know what, bricks and mortar. If my wife is depressed or if a family member [00:23:00] is depressed, it makes sense. We should value our health. And that’s why I try and explain to my patients, you know, [00:23:05] but they know it themselves. You know, it’s worth more than your car and the holiday, your [00:23:10] house. You know, your own well-being.

Payman Langroudi: So tentative steps. You paid [00:23:15] attention. This guy said, 30 K. How did that translate to you sticking your first implant [00:23:20] in? What was the moment when you.

Adeel Ali: So yeah. So you know, I said, look, look This is the journey [00:23:25] I want to go on. I’m again. I’m all in. You’re my mentor. I think a lot of the times when people go [00:23:30] wrong, when they’ve got like ten different mentors, they just get confused. I’d rather stick with one guy. If he gets it wrong, he gets it wrong. [00:23:35]

Payman Langroudi: But he’s your boss as well.

Adeel Ali: He’s your boss as well. Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: So what was what was his? Who was his mentor like? What [00:23:40] had he done to get to him? Oh, he’ll.

Adeel Ali: He’ll take him. I mean, the godfather of him. Rest [00:23:45] his rest his soul. But, um, so he told me to do five years in the NHS to [00:23:50] get my hands moving. So, you know, I got a lot of experience. And then I did [00:23:55] the Tatum course. So, you know, when you’re taught by giants like Hilt Tatum, [00:24:00] I mean, the guy invented the sinus graft procedure. And you’re learning sinus grafting procedure [00:24:05] from him. You’re just in constant or so. It kind of stemmed from that. So we used to [00:24:10] do five days back to back for a year. So it was really intense, [00:24:15] a lot of hands on training. And then having that training and then learning [00:24:20] from my mentor Vicario, you know, he was an excellent at communication skills. I mean, the [00:24:25] the best. So I just go and watch him how he’d communicate with patients and then slowly translate [00:24:30] that into into.

Payman Langroudi: The restorative skills along the way.

Adeel Ali: Oh, restorative skills I’d say crystal. [00:24:35] I did crystal.

Payman Langroudi: Oh did you, did you.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Yeah I mean, you know, I love Crystal. Did his in 2010, [00:24:40] uh, his restorative program for a year. Um, and then I did [00:24:45] some Botox training with Bob, you know, like, like most guys do, and [00:24:50] then just really just went double down into implantology. Uh, thereafter, you know, [00:24:55] I’ve been to, um, Hungary, trained by Istvan Urban in bone grafting techniques. [00:25:00] But a lot of my training now is, um, just seeing world [00:25:05] class surgeons. You know, we’ve got some world class surgeons in this country. People like Guy MacLennan. Phenomenal [00:25:10] at making plans to spend a lot of time with him. Um, I’ve got very good friends in the States as well that I go [00:25:15] to see, uh, Juan Gonzalez, that we’re going to be running some. We’ve run a course in Brazil together, uh, [00:25:20] for, you know, zygomatic implants. You’ve got, um, just just what.

Payman Langroudi: Do you do in [00:25:25] Implantology?

Adeel Ali: What is that? Sorry.

Payman Langroudi: What don’t you do?

Adeel Ali: What don’t I.

Payman Langroudi: Do? Yeah. Like, what’s where’s your limit [00:25:30] in implantology? Do you do everything I can do?

Adeel Ali: Pretty much most procedures, but I choose I, [00:25:35] I only I choose to do the procedures that have [00:25:40] a tangible result. What I mean by that is, if I do [00:25:45] a full jaw, patients can see actually what they’ve done. Yes, I’ve had some pain and swelling, but you’ve. [00:25:50] Doc, you’ve given me a beautiful smile, so I choose to do that. I don’t tend to do very, very [00:25:55] complex grafting procedures because from a patient’s perspective, they can’t really see what’s happened, caused [00:26:00] them a lot of pain and swelling. And, you know, it’s it’s good for us to see. Yes, I’ve got a vertical bone [00:26:05] growth here. But um, for the patient it’s like, well was he really done? So [00:26:10] I just like producing tangible results. So I’ll do single implants, but most of my [00:26:15] cases are full jaw implants, especially atrophic cases where patients need like zygomatic [00:26:20] implants or pterygoid implants, that sort of thing.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re very comfortable doing both.

Adeel Ali: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Very comfortable. [00:26:25] Very comfortable. I’ve probably done about 800 full arches, probably 8000 implants.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:26:30] zygomas and zygoma.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: When you said on your training you were telling me this [00:26:35] tier one, tier two, tier three, tier one is a total. Like someone who’s never touched an implant.

Adeel Ali: Never [00:26:40] touched an implant.

Payman Langroudi: Just wants to.

Adeel Ali: Just see the guys with the right attitude.

Payman Langroudi: The very start, very start. We [00:26:45] get that. And does that go all the way to sticking one implant in? That’s right. Okay. And then tier two is. [00:26:50]

Adeel Ali: Hard and soft tissue grafting. So they’ll learn sinus grafting soft tissue grafting [00:26:55] around implants.

Payman Langroudi: So how how much work should you have done. How much experience in [00:27:00] implantology should you have had before you start getting into sinus graft, for instance?

Adeel Ali: I [00:27:05] would want them to, you know, there’s no hard and fast rules about it. You know, [00:27:10] I was very strict because I started teaching just full arch dentistry, a full [00:27:15] arch implantology. And I used to say, look, you have to place at least about 200 implants before you [00:27:20] can come on my course. Because, you know, I had a gut feeling that they they know how to work around the mouth, [00:27:25] they know how to raise the flat bed, etcetera, etcetera. But as time progressed, with more [00:27:30] knowledge available and younger guys getting into implantology a lot quicker, you know, and seeing [00:27:35] how quickly their their upskilling, I’ve sort of lowered that threshold. So I’ve [00:27:40] got a guy on my tier three course now he’s honestly he’s two years out.

Payman Langroudi: Now.

Adeel Ali: From [00:27:45] university. So he phoned me up and [00:27:50] I said, I’m not taking you on. I said, look, I don’t think this is right for you. He said, look, doc, I’ve done this, [00:27:55] I’ve done that. I’ve done grafting procedures. So I took him on the fly. You know, I said, look, [00:28:00] okay, come and join the course and let’s see how it goes. And I’ll tell you why. He’s probably the [00:28:05] best, of course. And it just really flipped the script in my mind. Um, because [00:28:10] obviously when I was training, there wasn’t much available. You know, I remember when I started for [00:28:15] lunch, not a lot of people were doing it. And I remember calling up different implant surgeons, [00:28:20] surgeons asking, what’s a multi-unit abutment? I’ve heard of this thing called a multi-unit abutment. What is it? Yeah. [00:28:25]

Payman Langroudi: So I don’t know.

Adeel Ali: What it is. What are you doing? It like [00:28:30] an all on four or a full arch. You know, sometimes with the with the distal implants, you have to [00:28:35] angle them at 45 degrees to avoid the sinus. Yeah, yeah. But then you need to sort of correct the angles on [00:28:40] it. So they come in like a 17 or 30 degree angle correction. I get it. So yeah. [00:28:45] So so nobody knew what it was. So that’s the sort of era I was training [00:28:50] in. But now there’s so much knowledge available. So I’ve totally sort of taken a [00:28:55] different stance on it.

Payman Langroudi: But see this, this cat you’re talking about, I’m sure he’s quite extraordinary anyway. Yeah, [00:29:00] but he hasn’t done the five years on the NHS piece.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah. Well that’s it. Yeah. [00:29:05]

Payman Langroudi: So, so now if you had to give advice to, let’s just say your son was graduating [00:29:10] as, as a dentist and he says, dad, I want to be like you. I want to be an implant guy? Yeah. [00:29:15] What would be your advice? Because you have to discount. This is one thing that young dentists always ask me. [00:29:20] What should I do next? And I always give them this advice that you should always discount that whoever’s giving [00:29:25] you the advice is, number one going to tell you to do what they did. It just is just the way it is. It’s [00:29:30] the way it is, isn’t it? Just the way it is.

Adeel Ali: But you got to put your biases.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve started like, for instance, I didn’t do one day of NHS [00:29:35] after. Yeah. And I don’t see why anyone should. Yeah. But [00:29:40] loads of people are like, do your five years on the NHS. Get your experience [00:29:45] in and all of that. But but you know that bias that we have for what we did ourselves. So [00:29:50] so it’s.

Adeel Ali: Hard. It’s hard to.

Payman Langroudi: So discounting for that bias, what would you tell your son now. [00:29:55]

Adeel Ali: I’d say go and listen to Payman. No I would I.

Payman Langroudi: Would.

Adeel Ali: Say [00:30:00] look, look, I think I think what the NHS does, does just doesn’t give you [00:30:05] volume of work but builds your mental resilience. You’re dealing with a lot of patients because if you [00:30:10] want to get into this game you need resilience. I mean, you’ve got.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah but mental resilience or surgery [00:30:15] job. That’s mental resilience.

Adeel Ali: I think mental.

Payman Langroudi: Have you ever done one of those.

Adeel Ali: I haven’t done one of those. [00:30:20]

Payman Langroudi: Man. But you know.

Adeel Ali: You’re probably thinking from a clinical aspect. I’m talking from a handling [00:30:25] patient perspective.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Well, 4 a.m. there’s like six people waiting with cuts in their faces. [00:30:30] You don’t know what the hell to do. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, but I think I think in my experience, you know.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:30:35] know what you mean. Nhs is like Nam. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: It’s like. It’s like, nah, I’m going to Nam.

Payman Langroudi: Do you think there’s [00:30:40] a de-skilling in it?

Adeel Ali: Well, in working in the NHS.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Because you can’t do things [00:30:45] properly at all.

Adeel Ali: You can’t, you can’t. And I think I wouldn’t say five years, I’d say look just because [00:30:50] look you make your like I’d say to myself, you may think you want to do what I’m doing, [00:30:55] but, you know, why don’t you sort of explore different things.

Payman Langroudi: Yes, yes, yes. But [00:31:00] but the reason I’m saying it is because there’s people out there listening who want to be implantologists. Right. So [00:31:05] what’s the best way? Let’s say they’re literally like that PhD plus one like you. Yeah. They don’t have a [00:31:10] mentor, a principal who’s first thing. First thing. What should I do?

Adeel Ali: So whether you listen, whether you’re [00:31:15] doing NHS, whether you’re doing private, it’s still the early years, right? But I think you need that foundational knowledge, you know, go on a restorative [00:31:20] course, learn that and learn occlusion you need. It’s like going if you want to learn implantology, [00:31:25] it’s like going into war. You need your shield. You need your chainmail. Right. So your occlusion, your restorative is your shield, [00:31:30] your chainmail, you know, that will give you a good basis to then go on to and be.

Payman Langroudi: Able to take teeth [00:31:35] out. Right.

Adeel Ali: Take teeth out. Yes. Where are you going to get the volume of that. You’re going to get [00:31:40] it. Probably more so in an NHS practice. True, true, yeah. Uh, believe it or not, I’ve had mentees [00:31:45] wanting to learn full arch. They still can’t take teeth out. Which is. Which is worrying, you know. Um, [00:31:50] but certainly if you’re going on foundation course in Implantology, I think. What, in the, uh, [00:31:55] in the Tatum course, you know, we were taught how to do, you know, impacted wisdom teeth. We were taught how to do soft tissue [00:32:00] surgeries like frenectomy. So it did go quite far and deep, uh, into it, but [00:32:05] certainly, you know, go on. There’s a lot of oral surgery courses now as well, so I’d probably [00:32:10] add that into it as well. So restorative occlusion and learn how to do extractions well. And [00:32:15] then and then go on a course maybe you know if, if you’re, if you’re looking for [00:32:20] sort of a course in implants because there’s loads of good courses. Right. Um, [00:32:25] I.

Payman Langroudi: Mean, you know, it’s all the way from a master’s program in America. Yeah, to a weekend course. [00:32:30]

Adeel Ali: So I think I think, you know, self-reflection comes, [00:32:35] uh, probably a little bit later on in life and you kind of know who you are probably a little bit later on in life. When you’re young, [00:32:40] you’re still trying to find your way, right? Yeah. But you’ve got to sort of tap into who you are and who [00:32:45] you’re going to resonate with, because that’s going to make the biggest difference whether you’re going to succeed in this thing. True. So true. You know, if you know, I [00:32:50] could easily take a delegate if there’s if there’s no sort of bond there, are they really going [00:32:55] to sort of excel in their career. So you’ve got to sort of vet out these courses, see if you get on with the people. [00:33:00] How are they going to train you? How are they going to sort of develop you over the years? And, you know, a part of it is, [00:33:05] is is a gut feeling. You know, if you’re more academically MSC might be the best thing [00:33:10] for you, I was certain. Like, I knew who I was. I’m a guy, that’s all in. And I’m [00:33:15] very practically based. So that’s why the Tatum course with, you know, the amount of practical that you do, uh, [00:33:20] just helped me a lot. And that’s how I run my courses, you know, that’s who I am. I don’t claim [00:33:25] to, um, appeal to everyone, but if you if you’re [00:33:30] that sort of person that wants to do a lot of practical work, obviously we have an academic blend to it, [00:33:35] but want to get in there stuck in. If you if we resonate in our mentalities, then our course might be the one for [00:33:40] you, but it’s not going to appeal to everyone.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk a little bit of clinical while we’re here.

Adeel Ali: Let’s do.

Payman Langroudi: It. [00:33:45] I mean, I don’t know enough about it to ask you the right questions to you, but I do like this sort of question of [00:33:50] aha moments. Like what? At what moment did you have an aha moment around [00:33:55] any aspect that you want to talk about? Let’s start with, you know, would you tell me.

Adeel Ali: And [00:34:00] aha in implantology.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So you’ve got, you’ve got a course right. Module one is this module two is that [00:34:05] module three. There are moments in your own career like situations that you were in that [00:34:10] made you think, I’m kind of trying to get to what’s the crux? What’s the difference between a good implantologist [00:34:15] and a great implantologist outside of communication skills? I think clinically, where [00:34:20] are the bits that that sort of made you where you thought, I get it now, where [00:34:25] I didn’t get it before.

Adeel Ali: I think what some differences between and [00:34:30] I talked to my mentees about this is um, between sort of a good implant, a great [00:34:35] implant surgeon, and, and how they perform surgery. So I look at mentees from a distance, [00:34:40] and if they’re sort of if they’re working with finesse, if they’ve got the right posture, [00:34:45] if they’ve got the right positioning around the patient. And I’m really strict with my mentees about this, you know, so [00:34:50] if they’re not hunched over, I’ll tap on the shoulder to the basics. It’s so important.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:34:55] basics. You forget that sometimes.

Adeel Ali: You know, I’ve got a big stick in my practice, [00:35:00] right? And, you know, if they’re if when they’re doing surgery, I’ll just gently tap on their shoulder, relax [00:35:05] your shoulder. Change your hand grip. I don’t want to see this. I want to see. Change your hand grip. [00:35:10] Why aren’t you changing your hand grip? You know, this was drilled into us from the time course, you know. So that’s the difference between, [00:35:15] you know, good and great. You might be the clinical outcome might be similar, but I want to [00:35:20] see it with finesse.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Adeel Ali: Do you see what I mean. I want to see that, you know after doing 2 or 3 arches [00:35:25] can you still go home and, and still operate. Can you still go to a gym. Can you still be a husband and a father and [00:35:30] see what I mean? I think that’s a big part of it. Uh, for [00:35:35] me, clinically, a big aha moment. Uh, it was big to me that when I was doing sinus grafting, [00:35:40] I always used to miss out placing some bone in a particular aspect of the sinus, [00:35:45] like the anterior part. I just kept on missing it, and I and I sort of talked to my mentor [00:35:50] about it and said, you know, if you come in from if you stand at this position and [00:35:55] then if you hold the instrument this way you can get access to the anterior sinus. That [00:36:00] was the big, you know, big thing. For me. It might not be exciting to make things interesting. It’s interesting. [00:36:05] Yeah, yeah. So are we really focus on chair positioning?

Payman Langroudi: I asked Andrew Dorward this question. He’s one of my heroes. [00:36:10] Yeah. And he said when he realised 3D thinking and [00:36:15] he was saying as an implantologist, you’re constantly looking at scans and things and he’s huge in imaging [00:36:20] anyway. Yeah. And he was saying 3D thinking, isn’t there so much [00:36:25] in restorative dentistry as it is in Implantology?

Adeel Ali: And that that’s actually a big [00:36:30] one? I’ve probably that’s probably another one.

Payman Langroudi: And the other thing, you know, you said about grafts [00:36:35] and, you know, tangible results. He was saying keeping things simple [00:36:40] because often, you know, there’s that sort of ego thing that says, I’m going to do this block [00:36:45] graft, I’m going to do that. And he was saying, not as what you’re saying. He’s [00:36:50] saying from the patient perspective, the simpler the procedure, the more successful the [00:36:55] procedure is going to be. So keeping things simple.

Adeel Ali: Well, I see I see practitioners, all they do is advance [00:37:00] bone grafting.

Payman Langroudi: Overcomplicate. Overcomplicate things.

Adeel Ali: And I tried. Like you [00:37:05] said, I try and keep my. Because remember, I’m also a business owner as well. I want to keep complications down. I want patients happy. [00:37:10] Right. Yeah, I that’s why we do sort of. We rely on native bone as much as possible. [00:37:15] I don’t want to do big grafting. And we do a lot of full arch work which has a very, very high success rate, you [00:37:20] know, so we have to think about the business element of it as well.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so I asked Nilesh Palmer. Yes. [00:37:25] And I’m completely surprised. Me. I’m not I’m not an implant. Right. But he said suturing. [00:37:30] He said for him, that’s the key difference between a great implantologist and [00:37:35] a good implantologist the finesse of.

Adeel Ali: How they suture as well. So again, with, you [00:37:40] know, they can they can suture with finesse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Finesse and how they look, you know, [00:37:45] so when somebody’s watching me, it’s like, you know, how did he have his shoulder position. How did he have his elbow position. [00:37:50] What. How was he changing his hand grip without even looking at his hands? You know that [00:37:55] these are the levels that we want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We go we [00:38:00] go quite deep into it, you know.

Payman Langroudi: How about we like to talk about mistakes? I like to, while [00:38:05] we’re here, let’s talk about mistakes. Like what mistakes did you make in Implantology? But let’s start Implantology. [00:38:10] Where did you make a mistake? Where you learned from it, and you’re never going to make that mistake again?

Adeel Ali: Yeah. [00:38:15] I mean, talking about suturing, um, I was doing a case recently, and, [00:38:20] you know, there’s there’s there’s something called a continuous locking suture and just [00:38:25] just a continuous suture. And this patient was medically compromised. We’re doing a [00:38:30] full arch on him. I spoke to my, um, anaesthetist as well, so we always discuss cases before. And anaesthetists [00:38:35] actually speak to the patient as well as heels on clopidogrel. So I did a full arch on him. Sutured [00:38:40] him up really well. No, no bleeding post-op. Fitted the bridge. So [00:38:45] we did that on a the surgery on [00:38:50] a Saturday or a Sunday or something like that. Um, four [00:38:55] days later he started bleeding.

Payman Langroudi: Four days later.

Adeel Ali: Four days later. [00:39:00] Can you believe it? Four days later, he started bleeding.

Payman Langroudi: Had you stopped the clopidogrel and then started it again? No. [00:39:05]

Adeel Ali: Because we. It was a sort of risk benefit situation here. You know, he had a heart. [00:39:10] He’s had a heart attack.

Payman Langroudi: So he didn’t stop it at all.

Adeel Ali: I didn’t stop it. You know, sometimes we stop it, sometimes we don’t. But we [00:39:15] felt in this case, we should keep the patient on. And we’d warn them that you could probably, you know, bruise a lot more, make [00:39:20] sure we had watertight closure on the suturing. Four days later, he started to bleed. And, um. [00:39:25] I’m in Qatar now. I get a phone call 1:00 in the morning saying that [00:39:30] the paramedics are there. Yeah, paramedics. And I’m totally dazed. I [00:39:35] was like, you know, the paramedics had no idea what to do. I was telling paramedics what you need [00:39:40] to do. You need to take maxfax and get some sutures and, you know, and, [00:39:45] um, when Maxfax came home again, still bleeding, and, [00:39:50] um, referred him to one of my colleagues, they went to the colleague. [00:39:55] I’m doing this from abroad now.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm.

Adeel Ali: And um went to my colleague. He said [00:40:00] it was fine. He he phones me. Yep. Everything’s fine. He goes back home, starts bleeding [00:40:05] again. And uh, you know, then I got one of my other colleagues to see him that evening. [00:40:10] Just take the bridge off, researched him up. But, um, you know, he needed a blood [00:40:15] transfusion afterwards, and that is really, really scary. But I tell you.

Payman Langroudi: What have you done? Would you have done something differently? [00:40:20] I mean, what stopped the clopidogrel?

Adeel Ali: I guess I probably would have stopped clopidogrel. Um, [00:40:25] but, you know, you got to really reflect on these situations. Um, and, [00:40:30] um, you can look at it in a, in a positive light as well, that I’ve got an infrastructure of surgeons that [00:40:35] we, that I could rely on. Mhm. Um, I [00:40:40] wish that I wish the hospital had dealt with the situation a little bit better, especially maxillofacial department. [00:40:45] Um, but just fortunate to have really, really, really good people [00:40:50] that I work around.

Payman Langroudi: But where was the error.

Adeel Ali: I think the error.

Payman Langroudi: Was the complication.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. It’s the [00:40:55] I think probably the area was in suturing. I mean, probably it was a continuum. Maybe I did thinking [00:41:00] back, maybe a continuous lock would have been better to really to really sort of get good, [00:41:05] really, really tight approximation. Uh, so one of my colleagues just, uh, did a continuous lock [00:41:10] and issue resolved. So lesson is, is that maybe stay [00:41:15] two weeks after surgery before flying out? That’s true. Yeah. So so you go really reflect. But I tell [00:41:20] you what.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not always possible, is it isn’t always possible. Doing implants all day, every day. Then you’re going on [00:41:25] holiday with your family to Canada the next day. There’s no way of [00:41:30] staying there. Well, this is it.

Adeel Ali: This is it, you know? And, um. So. Yeah. Yeah, that’s [00:41:35] probably a big one. You know, I’ve dropped, you know, whilst doing full arch has dropped an implant in the sinus. [00:41:40] I mean, that’s pretty, pretty straightforward.

Payman Langroudi: I think you do about that.

Adeel Ali: Pretty uh, pretty straightforward [00:41:45] to deal with. Yeah. So I probably that’s probably the biggest one. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And in your journey. [00:41:50]

Adeel Ali: But but on that point. Yeah. Building that goodwill.

Payman Langroudi: Good relationship with [00:41:55] the patient.

Adeel Ali: With the patient before the treatment.

Payman Langroudi: It’s everything.

Adeel Ali: It’s everything. Because that could have gone two [00:42:00] ways. That could have been like, you know what, we’re taking this further. Or you know what? You [00:42:05] know, you took care of us. You did what you did. And, uh, and they took it like that, you [00:42:10] know.

Payman Langroudi: Have you had a situation where it’s gone the wrong way?

Adeel Ali: Um, yes, I have, I’ve [00:42:15] had, uh, quite a few situations where it’s gone the wrong way. Um, I’ve [00:42:20] had, I’ve, I’ve even had a case, uh, of litigation that I never even saw the patient, [00:42:25] but I’ve had a dentist writing notes in my, you know, when you, when you, when you log into your practice [00:42:30] management software, writing it in my name.

Payman Langroudi: God.

Adeel Ali: I mean, you just come across so many different people, so. [00:42:35]

Payman Langroudi: But, I mean, how do you feel in these situations? I mean, I remember when I was dentist, I never had I was I [00:42:40] wasn’t dentist long enough to have enough problems. But I had a couple of complaints. And I [00:42:45] remember there was one particular lady where I’d gone out of my way for her to try and do, and it’s always those that [00:42:50] tend to come back to get you. And but the complaint letter had said he was careless [00:42:55] and he hadn’t. You know, something like this here and to this day, I think about that letter. Yeah. [00:43:00] Um, and it was inconsequential. It was nothing. But but I had someone sitting [00:43:05] where you’re sitting telling me he dropped a fluoride varnish in the patient’s eye. [00:43:10] Yeah. Because he didn’t have eye protection on. And it affected him for years. [00:43:15] Years? It bothered him. Yeah. You know, that’s the cat he was. So. So [00:43:20] how do you handle, like, how do you how do you keep on going when these sort of [00:43:25] things happen? How long does it affect you for? How do you see it? Do you see it as the intention? [00:43:30] Because that’s the best way to look at it. Is your intention was right.

Adeel Ali: The intention was right. And [00:43:35] again, having that infrastructure at home, I mean, for me personally, you know, having a wife to, to relay back [00:43:40] to me that you are a good person, you are conscientious and having [00:43:45] that repeated constantly, you know, you know what? Stuff happens [00:43:50] and you just got to move on. I can, you know, I can see why. It’s. [00:43:55] To be honest, it’s a good thing with with the dentist that you’re talking about. You know, he is conscious. That’s why it’s [00:44:00] affecting him so much. But you can’t let it get to a place where it’s sort of paralyses you from from moving [00:44:05] forward. And you keep sort of thinking about that situation.

Payman Langroudi: Was he was saying something around how a [00:44:10] lot of his identity is built in being a good dentist.

Adeel Ali: Right?

Payman Langroudi: Too [00:44:15] much. Too much of his identity is built in being a good dentist. Now, you could say your identity is to do with your [00:44:20] family, your wife, your religion, your gym. You know, a lot of there’s a lot of factors that contribute [00:44:25] to who you are. Yeah. But he was saying being a dentist was a big like the biggest part of [00:44:30] his identity. And when that was threatened, his whole identity was threatened.

Adeel Ali: Well, I think that’s [00:44:35] probably part of the problem as well. I think when you’re growing, and certainly for me, dentistry was a big part of who [00:44:40] I am, but slowly started trying to phase out of it to become a more well-rounded individual. [00:44:45] So, and, um, you know, if if a complaint does come, it doesn’t sort of [00:44:50] phase you. Phase you as much. Because you know what? I’m a human being. You know, I’m doing high risk, complex [00:44:55] work, and this is the part of life I’ve just learned to just swim in deep waters. Now everything’s. [00:45:00] You know, if it’s not dentistry, there’s gonna be something going on in family life or it’s not. It’s going to be in finances or in [00:45:05] business, whatever it is you just got to be. You used to be comfortable and.

Payman Langroudi: Roll with the punches. [00:45:10]

Adeel Ali: Roll with the punches. That’s life. You know, I used to think, you know, one day I could, you know, sit in some [00:45:15] money and be set. It’s, you know. No, that’s never gonna happen.

Payman Langroudi: Also in business, once you’ve been in business for a while, you realise [00:45:20] that is business.

Adeel Ali: That’s all that is the nature of business.

Payman Langroudi: Well, that’s that’s the part that is what [00:45:25] business is about. It’s about solving that problem.

Adeel Ali: Problem.

Payman Langroudi: Because. Because everything else in business is, [00:45:30] you know. All right. Relationships. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Make your customers happy, make your investors happy, [00:45:35] make your staff happy. You know, like that’s it. That’s all. That’s that’s everything. [00:45:40] But those missiles that come from nowhere. Yeah. You know, some manufacturer suddenly [00:45:45] loses his regulatory. And now I can’t supply my desensitisers. [00:45:50] Stick out of the blue. How do you. How do.

Adeel Ali: You. How do you pivot? You got to pivot quick.

Payman Langroudi: All [00:45:55] of business is managing those situations. You know.

Adeel Ali: On a on a daily.

Payman Langroudi: Basis. Brilliant member of staff who suddenly [00:46:00] decides to leave the country.

Adeel Ali: You know that one as well. Yeah. Associates that don’t want to turn [00:46:05] up or you know, like it’s just.

Payman Langroudi: About business lessons. Because one thing I’ve noticed [00:46:10] is that implantology is good for business. No doubt. No doubt about that. [00:46:15] Yeah. And often we can fool ourselves sometimes into thinking we’re [00:46:20] wonderful entrepreneurs in dentistry. Yeah. And we are. We’re entrepreneurs. [00:46:25] We have a business. Yeah. There’s no doubt about that. Um, but when [00:46:30] you set up a practice and, you know, you, you then sell it on and partner [00:46:35] issues and these things and you’ve done it a few times now you’ve [00:46:40] done it three times.

Adeel Ali: Now I’ve had I’m on my third business partnership. Yeah. [00:46:45] So you can have some good porn? No. Third or fourth. You can have good partners. You can have bad partners. There’s [00:46:50] a lot.

Payman Langroudi: So what are some lessons you’ve learned around both? Both the structure, the partnership thing. Like are [00:46:55] you the kind of person who can get into partnership with anyone? For instance, Prav we were talking [00:47:00] about. Yeah. That cat, she’s got partners left, right? He’s got so many partners. Yeah. [00:47:05] And he’s the kind of guy who will turn up to. He’ll insist on a board meeting. Yeah, he’ll sit [00:47:10] in the board meeting and he’ll get what’s his. Yeah, he will he’ll he’ll make sure everything’s [00:47:15] done correctly to the point that he will not get screwed. Yeah. And he doesn’t mind [00:47:20] about the character of the partner? Yeah. Me? No way could I do that. No way. I [00:47:25] could only get in partnership with someone who I 1,000% trust. So what are your reflections when you’ve [00:47:30] had a few different partners?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, I think I think the main thing for me why I went into partnership because I knew what I was good at, I [00:47:35] was good at clinical and I was good at sales. Yeah, I’m really strong at both.

Payman Langroudi: I would say I recommend partnership [00:47:40] because of that. Right. Because we’re not all good at everything.

Adeel Ali: Exactly. So, so for me, it just makes sense to have somebody [00:47:45] strong in sort of operational management of business. You know, I didn’t want to deal with HR compliance, don’t want to do any of that. I’m not good [00:47:50] at it. So for me, it was always, you know, partnerships are good in that sense. Um, [00:47:55] but.

Payman Langroudi: Are you, like, more like me or more like Prav?

Adeel Ali: I would probably be somewhere [00:48:00] in the middle because I’ve been, you know, burnt with partnerships as well. Have you? Uh, yeah. Yeah yeah [00:48:05] yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s just some crazy things, you know? Um, over. [00:48:10] Yeah. Just just just basic. Basic. I think I think a big part of, [00:48:15] uh, partnerships should be based on sort of trust and loyalty and [00:48:20] and living up to your values. You know, if I’m going to say this, just just just do it. [00:48:25] Um, obviously things change over the years, right? They they change over the years. You [00:48:30] know, people grow, you know.

Payman Langroudi: In different directions.

Adeel Ali: In different directions.

Payman Langroudi: But also it’s quite interesting what you said about [00:48:35] complementary skills. Yeah. Like my partner saying he is that operations. [00:48:40] He loves computers. He loves systems. Very organised, super [00:48:45] reliable guy. Yeah, I’m the opposite. Like, it’s probably [00:48:50] quite unreliable. Sales, marketing. You know that bit more like you. Yeah, yeah. [00:48:55] Um, but the basic principles are aligned, and [00:49:00] it’s that combination of basic principles being the same, basic principles being [00:49:05] how we deal with ethics, how we deal with people, how we deal with money, how the [00:49:10] basic principles have to.

Adeel Ali: Change as.

Payman Langroudi: Well. Yeah. True.

Adeel Ali: You [00:49:15] know.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting.

Adeel Ali: You know, I was talking to my business partner yesterday. Um, [00:49:20] we were just talking about the topic of loyalty, and he said, you know, because he’s he’s very pessimistic about [00:49:25] people, because he’s he’s been having.

Payman Langroudi: The worst about people.

Adeel Ali: Worst about people. I’m the guy [00:49:30] that wears my heart on my sleeve. So we’re very, you know, so so we complement each other in that sense. In that sense. Um, [00:49:35] he just expects everybody to screw him. So he’s very he’s got he’s very guarded. I said, I’ll never screw [00:49:40] you. And he said, you know what? You’re probably right. So I was like, that was a big, [00:49:45] big thing for him. But, you know, we we talk about, you know, like trust. And I was on a podcast yesterday and [00:49:50] giving some advice to a marketing team, and those 225 year old guys started marketing business [00:49:55] doing phenomenally well. I said, just just make sure you stick to some key principles. Be loyal [00:50:00] and grow each other. Yeah. And realise as you’re on this journey together, you’re [00:50:05] going to grow in different directions. You’re going to get married, you’re gonna have children. Your needs and wants are going to change. Just be always be [00:50:10] open about that and communicate with one another. You know.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s your advice on partnerships, how [00:50:15] to choose the partner you’re saying for you. You need to start with a [00:50:20] level of loyalty, level of trust. But you need.

Adeel Ali: You need you need to character assassinate [00:50:25] who you’re doing partnership with honestly. And you need to do your due diligence about the person. How do they have [00:50:30] integrity? You know, if they got integrity, you can work with that person. You know, I would I’d [00:50:35] always go for integrity more than skill set. Mhm. Integrity I’d say integrity and work ethic. [00:50:40] You know, those are the core fundamentals of of a partnership [00:50:45] that you need. Because I know say I’m in Qatar. I just don’t have any doubt about my [00:50:50] business partner.

Payman Langroudi: Not pulling.

Adeel Ali: His weight, not pulling his. He’s he’s he’s pulling his weight. I just know it. [00:50:55] I haven’t got that. Is he doing. Is he not. Is he actually you know I just know he’s pulling his weight. And I know he wouldn’t [00:51:00] lie to me because he’s he’s got integrity.

Payman Langroudi: And what about other lessons in [00:51:05] practice? Ownership. Squats. Staff customer acquisition. Patient [00:51:10] acquisition. What have you learned? I mean you’ve done it a few times now.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, I’ve done a few times. I think, you know, for [00:51:15] certainly, you know, doing the acquisition of a business as opposed to starting squad two totally different [00:51:20] models.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Have you done both?

Adeel Ali: I’ve done.

Payman Langroudi: Both. Okay.

Adeel Ali: I both if you are, if you’re asking what I prefer now as [00:51:25] I’m a little bit older, probably acquisitions, probably a little bit easier, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Less stress.

Adeel Ali: Less stress. And you know, [00:51:30] I would my philosophy now is I’d rather buy revenue than create it. So if I buy revenue, [00:51:35] I can easily add revenue onto it because you’ve got an infrastructure right and you can move a lot quicker.

Payman Langroudi: Although, although although [00:51:40] goodwill is overpriced a little bit good.

Adeel Ali: Goodwill is overpriced. But again, if you’re doing implantology [00:51:45] then you could probably pay a little bit over because if you bring some, you know, put some [00:51:50] CapEx into it, get your CT scans, get your intraoral scanners, put a basic patient journey together. [00:51:55] You can really grow the turnover. So we you know, my business partner at the time, me and him, we [00:52:00] bought a practice and we we we doubled the EBITDA in a year because we weren’t really aggressive with Implantology, you know. [00:52:05]

Payman Langroudi: So on the existing patients.

Adeel Ali: On the existing patients.

Payman Langroudi: So there wasn’t [00:52:10] a problem with trying to get new patients in.

Adeel Ali: Because it was a surgery practice.

Payman Langroudi: And so were [00:52:15] you looking for a practice like that where it was a big practice? Yeah, I always wanted we weren’t really doing the implantology.

Adeel Ali: That’s [00:52:20] it. And there’s still a lot of practices like that, you know. So I said to my mentees, you know, I think Implantology is still [00:52:25] in its infancy. If you look at the penetration rates of.

Payman Langroudi: In the UK, particularly.

Adeel Ali: Massive, massive. Yeah, yeah, [00:52:30] yeah. And I think Implantology needs to become more affordable for people. I’m a big advocate of that. More patients [00:52:35] need dental implants. You know I don’t And I’m probably going to ruffle a few feathers here about partial [00:52:40] dentures. You know, all my patients, I’d say 90 to 95% of my patients are patients [00:52:45] that are wearing partial dentures. They just can’t tolerate it or a complete denture. You know, I don’t I really don’t [00:52:50] believe they should be wearing these things. I think people should die with fixed teeth. And we should aim and drive to [00:52:55] make implantology more affordable for patients so they can benefit from it. So [00:53:00] what we did at smile, well, you know, I invested a lot into tech. I invested into a lab. Now we’ve just [00:53:05] bought some milling machines. So investing into technology digital technology. And so we [00:53:10] can put systems and processes in place. So then I can pass those savings on to the patient. [00:53:15]

Payman Langroudi: You seem very comfortable in the uncomfortable just [00:53:20] used.

Adeel Ali: I’ve been I’ve always been in there since school days. I went to a tough school. I, [00:53:25] you know, when you’ve got someone waiting for you after school with a hammer to [00:53:30] crack your head in, or you’ve got guys waiting for baseball bats after you after [00:53:35] a party There’s no more. If you could get through that anxiety, [00:53:40] dealing with complaints and things. It’s a joke.

Payman Langroudi: But when I say uncomfortable. A lot of people, myself [00:53:45] included. Yeah. The idea of you can see behind you. There’s a lab there. Yes. The idea of building [00:53:50] a lab was so painful to me, so uncomfortable for me, that we [00:53:55] didn’t do it. For the first 15 years of enlightenment, we were outsourcing the lab. Yeah. My [00:54:00] partner, he’s more like you. He’s like the idea of, like, digital printers and all [00:54:05] of that stuff. He just loves it. He loves computers. But. But what I’m saying is, a lot [00:54:10] of dentists will never set up a lab for that reason. Because it’s another thing.

Adeel Ali: Again, I don’t have to fully [00:54:15] understand it to invest into it. I’ll just pick the right people that know it. So I’ve got really good friend who’s well into digital, [00:54:20] and I just said, just give me a new, not a new, but a new [00:54:25] digital inside out as well. But a Rob I mean, he’s a very good friend of mine. He knows his digital inside out. So [00:54:30] just just tell me what I need to get. See, with my zirconia milling machine. He’s done all the research. I’ll just find a [00:54:35] rob. What am I doing here? What do I need to get?

Payman Langroudi: So is that the way you.

Adeel Ali: Sort of.

Payman Langroudi: Is that the way you navigate problems? Who? [00:54:40] Not what.

Adeel Ali: Exactly?

Payman Langroudi: It’s always interesting perhaps like that to you. We’re going to start a podcast, [00:54:45] he said let’s go find the world’s top podcast coach. I was like, what? What’d [00:54:50] you say? But he did. He went and found this guy. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Exactly. Just just [00:54:55] leverage of people’s skill sets. Yeah. That’s how you move. Move fast because, you know, the job’s [00:55:00] already been done. You just need to implement it. Right? So I don’t need to go. And on umpteen amount of courses [00:55:05] like you’re saying about, you know, my favourite course style, you know, would like to go on, I don’t really need to go on [00:55:10] because I just need to know, just put me in front of who’s doing it, who’s doing it. Well. [00:55:15] And that’s how I met Juan Gonzalez. I hit him up on Instagram. Uh, he taught me how to do pterygoids. [00:55:20] Um, and I’ve just implemented his way because it just made sense to me.

Payman Langroudi: Learning from the best is always a good idea [00:55:25] as well, man.

Adeel Ali: Always.

Payman Langroudi: You know.

Adeel Ali: It’s just not even learning. It’s, you know, if you’re in their aura, it’s [00:55:30] just something different about it. You know, being with Tatum.

Payman Langroudi: Them? Yeah.

Adeel Ali: It’s different. Honestly. It’s just.

Payman Langroudi: Who [00:55:35] would you say? Like, for me, it was Andrew. David is my hero. Yeah. Yeah. He’s my hero in dentistry. [00:55:40] Who’s yours?

Adeel Ali: Vicario. My mentor.

Payman Langroudi: He’s really.

Adeel Ali: Really. Yeah, yeah. So he’s still, you know, he’s like a second [00:55:45] father to me. You know, like.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t mean that. I mean, like hero worship hero. That kind of hero.

Adeel Ali: I’d [00:55:50] say he’s my hero.

Payman Langroudi: Honestly, because he’s he’s he’s like he’s too close to home to be a hero. You know what?

Adeel Ali: I you [00:55:55] know, I might sound a little bit controversial here, but I don’t really rate.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:56:00] anyone.

Adeel Ali: Anyone I don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Okay. Okay.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. No no, no. As [00:56:05] in, because if they’re doing well clinically, I want to see you in a three. I want to see you across [00:56:10] every facet of your life. Yeah. You’re doing the clinical world. But how’s the business? How do your team view [00:56:15] you? How’s your family life? How are you raising your children? I want to see it. And then it’s a case of, you know what.

Payman Langroudi: In [00:56:20] the whole.

Adeel Ali: In. Yeah, that’s how I start rating rating people. And so when if you, you know, if somebody’s [00:56:25] done a, like a, like a full life beautiful arch with pterygoid zygomatic implants, but [00:56:30] they’re failing in other aspects of life. Well, I don’t know. I just can’t can’t resonate with it as much. [00:56:35]

Payman Langroudi: I like that. Yeah, I like that. It’s a nice way of looking at, well, how much of your sort [00:56:40] of ethics and all that come from religion? Like, what’s your relationship with God and all that?

Adeel Ali: No, I’d [00:56:45] say everything.

Payman Langroudi: Everything?

Adeel Ali: Everything? Everything. I wouldn’t be the man if it wasn’t for my religion. [00:56:50] Honestly.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but. But let’s say you weren’t religious. Yeah, you’re. [00:56:55] You would have still learned from your parents, like.

Adeel Ali: I think I think parents can teach. I [00:57:00] think, I think sometimes parents can put a cultural, cultural spin on [00:57:05] religion and it becomes very murky. What is religion? What is culture? Yeah, I think the Indian culture does have [00:57:10] a lot of, you know, respect for family, for parents, for ethics, which [00:57:15] which is great. Uh, but sometimes you have to sort of sift between what is culture, because sometimes [00:57:20] culture can sort of lead you in a very sort of a different way. Uh, [00:57:25] as well, uh, which, which I found on my journey. You know, what is actually actually, this is counterproductive [00:57:30] as opposed to good. I find in Indian culture sometimes, you know, like letting [00:57:35] the children go, you know, find their own feet can be sometimes it can be a little bit restrictive.

Payman Langroudi: Of [00:57:40] course.

Adeel Ali: As well, you know, you’ve probably found that in Iranian culture sometimes as well. Yeah. Yeah. [00:57:45] Yeah, yeah. So, so you just got to sort of you navigate and as I get older, you know, at the age of 40, I can [00:57:50] sort of see what’s what’s good for me and what’s not.

Payman Langroudi: I’m talking about you’ve got the ethical [00:57:55] framework here. There’s some ethical question comes up. Yeah. And you decide to go [00:58:00] one way or the other. Yeah. You’re not surely telling me you’re sort of referring back [00:58:05] to religion for that decision. I because [00:58:10] I don’t have I don’t have religion. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like I’ve got ethics. Yeah, yeah.

Adeel Ali: No, no. Absolutely. You can have ethics [00:58:15] without religion, I just. But, um, for me, obviously God consciousness [00:58:20] is a big thing.

Payman Langroudi: Um, do you pray?

Adeel Ali: I pray, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Would you pray for.

Adeel Ali: I pray? [00:58:25] Well, as a muslim, I pray five times a day.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but would you pray pay for?

Adeel Ali: I pray for what I think. [00:58:30] Prayer for me is one. It’s incumbent on me. It realigns [00:58:35] me. Honestly. It gives me such a sense of realignment. Five times. Five times [00:58:40] a day.

Payman Langroudi: Five times a day.

Adeel Ali: I read five times a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not perfect. Sometimes I miss and I have to make [00:58:45] up and so forth when I’m travelling and this and that. I try my best to pray five times a day. And you know what? Especially [00:58:50] in Implantology, you know, you’re doing such risky work. You’re not just having that reliance that, you know, I put my head on the ground. [00:58:55] God, I’ve got a very, very difficult surgery to just keep my patient safe, keep [00:59:00] me safe, keep my hands, give me strength to to get through this mentally got challenges. You know, moving to Qatar has been a [00:59:05] huge challenge for us. Financial everything. You know, just put my head down and.

Payman Langroudi: It’ll be all.

Adeel Ali: Right. It’ll be [00:59:10] all right. You know? It’ll be all.

Payman Langroudi: Right. Yeah. I’ve got I’ve got a friend who’s got faith and he sometimes he does that with [00:59:15] me and I realise there’s strength in it. Yeah. The strength. He’s a surgeon as well actually. The [00:59:20] strength like something he’s, he’s his eyes will kind of glaze over. Not in a, in a good way [00:59:25] sort of thing. And he’ll go, I’ve got this problem, I’ve got that problem, but it’ll be all right. Yeah. And I’m like, how the hell [00:59:30] do you know it’s gonna be all right? Yeah, because I haven’t got.

Adeel Ali: See, my paradigm [00:59:35] is any. Anything that’s good or bad is always for. It was meant to be. Yeah. [00:59:40] This is how it was supposed to be ordained. So see the good in that.

Payman Langroudi: But what’s the downside like? So [00:59:45] there’s the upside of of faith. Yes. That in those moments when someone passes away unfortunately [00:59:50] there’s many upsides. Yeah. What’s the downside.

Adeel Ali: Downsides of faith. [00:59:55] I honestly I can’t see any downsides. I mean [01:00:00] downside it doesn’t I don’t feel I don’t feel restricted. Um I don’t feel that [01:00:05] I can’t do anything that I don’t want to do. Um, I’m not, you know, and it keeps it keeps [01:00:10] me in check. It keeps me. It keeps my integrity to where it needs to be. Keeps my credibility, keeps me [01:00:15] loyal. It keeps me engaged with people. Uh, it’s given me a really good framework [01:00:20] that gives me fun for the long term, you know? So for me, I don’t, you know, I’ve never done [01:00:25] drugs, I don’t drink, but those those. Those, [01:00:30] those, those sort of restrictions being put into place as so you [01:00:35] can have fun over the long term.

Payman Langroudi: Whereas the outside there must be downside. The, the [01:00:40] way I look at it is I’ve explained to you there’s a downside to not having a faith. Yeah, yeah. [01:00:45]

Adeel Ali: But what would you suppose like like a potential downside to faith.

Payman Langroudi: Because I have [01:00:50] a guilt feeling.

Adeel Ali: Um tempted guilt is good. I mean, like you again. [01:00:55] Like, from my perspective, people could go so deep, like like, you know, with that complications with [01:01:00] the dentist, you can go so deep into it. But, you know, I believe God is the most merciful and most forgiving. [01:01:05] So, look, you know, you can have it. You know, you just just brush it off. That’s how you know, you can make a mistake. You just brush [01:01:10] it off and just.

Payman Langroudi: You know, the classical questions that people ask, people who believe.

Adeel Ali: Go for it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And, [01:01:15] you know, I’m sure you’ve got a classical answer, but you know this. I’m [01:01:20] not even asking you the question, but hear me out. You say, oh, this child was born yesterday. [01:01:25] Tomorrow a bomb dropped on his head and he died. Why did God allow that? And then you’ll say something like, [01:01:30] God moves in mysterious ways. By the way, you saw that child. That child didn’t have a chance. You [01:01:35] did. You had a chance. You saw what happened there. So now go live your life well, like there’s [01:01:40] guilt right there. Yeah. There’s guilt. Now, me, I see that child. I feel [01:01:45] terrible for that child. Yeah, but I don’t have some feeling of. God showed me that child so that I would now. Yeah, [01:01:50] yeah. No guilt.

Adeel Ali: Guilt, guilt. And, um, you know, [01:01:55] in those obviously what’s going on in the world right now, it is it is really challenging [01:02:00] times, you know. Yeah. And people do lose their faith, uh, these sort of things.

Payman Langroudi: When were we closest to [01:02:05] like, when was it when was your faith most challenged.

Adeel Ali: Most challenged. When you go through [01:02:10] calamities. Yeah. When you go through calamities.

Payman Langroudi: You’re thinking, God, why have you done this to me?

Adeel Ali: I mean, it’s just [01:02:15] it’s just a.

Payman Langroudi: Calamity in particular comes to mind when.

Adeel Ali: School.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:02:20] really?

Adeel Ali: School, man. School was tough, man.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Adeel Ali: You know, and, um.

Payman Langroudi: Bullying [01:02:25] and.

Adeel Ali: Bullying. Bullying is tough, man. I tell you what, it is tough, you know, and, um, I’ve, you [01:02:30] know, I’ve, I’ve got you probably have noticed I’ve got a big birthmark on my face, so you can’t see it because. Because [01:02:35] of the beard now. But growing up with a big mark on your face. And you know why? You know why have I got [01:02:40] this on my face? You know, like, you know, other kids don’t have it, you know, getting, you know, teased about that. And then. [01:02:45] But I was still quite confident as well. So people didn’t like that, you know, and, uh, you know, just. [01:02:50]

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes that confidence to cover up the lack of confidence.

Adeel Ali: I talked about. Yeah. So I had to I [01:02:55] what I did was I tried to be overly overcompensate. Yeah. Overcompensated [01:03:00] for it.

Payman Langroudi: It’s funny, when you’re a kid, all you want is to fit in. And then when you’re an adult, [01:03:05] all you want to stand out.

Adeel Ali: As, like, you know, at the age of 40, I’m trying to cut the list. Do [01:03:10] you know what? I’ve got a hit list. Alright, we need to get around because I just want, you know, [01:03:15] peace and quiet. You know, the less people I know, the the better, you know?

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about Qatar. The [01:03:20] decision to move is a big decision. Yeah, and you told me you don’t know [01:03:25] anyone there.

Adeel Ali: Even I don’t know anyone there.

Payman Langroudi: Because, you know, I thought maybe you’d say you’ve got family there, you’ve got friends there, you’ve got something [01:03:30] there. What was that decision making process like? Like, did you start feeling, [01:03:35] I don’t want to bring my kids up in Britain as much as before.

Adeel Ali: Well, I talk about [01:03:40] it in the book and it was quite profound. So we went on a holiday to Qatar in August 23rd, [01:03:45] and a year later we were there. Right.

Payman Langroudi: Did you fall in love or.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, because we always wanted to. We always [01:03:50] like the Middle East. We’ve always been going to Dubai. My wife and I, you know, the kids. We’ve been going to Dubai quite a lot. My brother’s [01:03:55] there. Her family is there as well. So we’ve always wanted to to move at some point. [01:04:00] Um, we went there this time and we said, look, I mean, we’ve just remember we’ve just started [01:04:05] the business as well. We’re a year into it.

Payman Langroudi: The education business.

Adeel Ali: No, no, the the squad, [01:04:10] the squad. So and you know, with the private squad, it has to be clinically it has [01:04:15] to be owned and operated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You start making that into an associated business, you know, with the cash flow issues [01:04:20] with the starting business is very, very difficult. So if we don’t do it now, then our eldest [01:04:25] is going to be starting and we can’t pull him out of halfway through GCSEs. So we have to do it now or [01:04:30] never. So we sat down with our other business partner and said, look, this is what we’re planning. [01:04:35] And he just had a nearly had a heart attack. So. So we have to now remodel this business [01:04:40] so we can get out of the country and remodel it to an associate business. So, you [01:04:45] know, and obviously the cash demands for associated business is so much higher. So we had to just really, really pivot [01:04:50] on that. And um, we were sort of able to move. And the main reasons is we want look safety [01:04:55] for the kids. I think, you know, my son’s getting to an age where he wants to go out with his mates. I just don’t want [01:05:00] that.

Payman Langroudi: Do you feel unsafe now, like in Britain? Did you feel unsafe with the kids? I’ve [01:05:05] got that feeling that it’s unsafe. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Do you know what I know?

Payman Langroudi: It’s safe in in [01:05:10] in the very, very safe. I think I think it’s safe to a ridiculous extent. Yeah. [01:05:15]

Adeel Ali: Absolutely. But, um with with, with with, you know, kids walking on the street. I’m just [01:05:20] going back to, you know, my childhood. You know, nobody.

Payman Langroudi: You just didn’t want that. I didn’t.

Adeel Ali: Want that. I didn’t want that. [01:05:25] And to be honest, like in our day, you know, like you never think you could lose your life. You’d get beaten [01:05:30] up, but you wouldn’t lose your life for it.

Payman Langroudi: Knife crime.

Adeel Ali: Knife crime has gone through the roof, you know? And you know, again, [01:05:35] you know, with our kids, they’re in a very sort of, I’d say, protective environment. You know, as they grow older, they [01:05:40] may want to go out here or there. It’s it’s, you know, I wanted to give them that freedom.

Payman Langroudi: Is [01:05:45] there not a degree of racism in Qatar from the, um, like more than here? I [01:05:50] would.

Adeel Ali: Say. I would say I think there’s definitely a hierarchy in all of those in all of [01:05:55] those countries, right? If you’re from the UK, you do get treated a little bit better, you know, and [01:06:00] what you’ll see. And then you’ll, you’ll, you’ll have the working class people, you’ll have, you know, I’m Indian, so you’ll have Indian, Pakistani, [01:06:05] Afghanistan.

Payman Langroudi: What I’m saying, do they not see you as an Indian? And then we.

Adeel Ali: Haven’t felt.

Payman Langroudi: That.

Adeel Ali: We [01:06:10] haven’t felt that, you know, we haven’t felt that. I think when you when you when you start talking. And that’s what it’s all about, you know, [01:06:15] you’ve got to have presence. You know, like, you know, I always, you know, I try and stay in shape. I try and wear [01:06:20] good clothes, good clothing and, you know, and have a presence. And, you know, when you meet people, you know, these what we talked [01:06:25] about. You know, I think people view you a little bit differently there. And I think if you’re coming in as a business [01:06:30] owner, as opposed to I’m looking for a job, I think people sort of view it a little bit differently.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve only [01:06:35] ever landed there on, on the, on the way to Thailand or something, but it looks extraordinary. [01:06:40] It’s amazing from the from the window of the plane. Beautiful. But the difference between Qatar and Dubai, [01:06:45] would you say it’s just less frantic.

Adeel Ali: Way less frantic. And I’d say it’s much [01:06:50] more family orientated. You know, it’s it’s just very, very family culture. And that’s what we wanted, [01:06:55] you know, because, you know, after the years of working so hard and not spending time with the family, I just wanted to focus on [01:07:00] the five of us and really to build those relationships. So I’d say, you know, in the last year, my relationship with my wife [01:07:05] has got even better. You know, we put the kids to sleep. We don’t lock the door. We just go out, you [01:07:10] know?

Payman Langroudi: But so what? What does Dubai have that would allow [01:07:15] you to do that.

Adeel Ali: I would say Dubai is I think it’s just very hectic. I just [01:07:20] think it’s very hectic.

Payman Langroudi: In what sense? Traffic and all that traffic.

Adeel Ali: I mean, have you got an Uber and have [01:07:25] you taken Uber in Dubai recently? It’s crazy. Like and it’s it’s getting more and more expensive. Uber in Qatar [01:07:30] is dead cheap. Really cheap. Um, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think just stuff restaurants, [01:07:35] shopping, everything’s the same. Cheaper than Dubai or um.

Adeel Ali: I [01:07:40] wouldn’t say the restaurants are cheaper, but certainly Uber and travelling is a lot cheaper. There’s there’s [01:07:45] not many people there.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So that’s what that’s what I understood that it feels like Dubai empty. [01:07:50] It is Dubai empty.

Adeel Ali: And doing business there. Certainly harder as well. Really. So yeah, it’s [01:07:55] a lot more challenging. Yeah. And I’d say, you know, I get a lot of dentists asking me, you know, you know, what’s working in Qatar, like can [01:08:00] I get a job with you, etc.. I said I wouldn’t make the move if you didn’t have your solid roots in the UK. [01:08:05] Uh, because if you’re trying to sort of go to Qatar to work, you’re not going to earn like you [01:08:10] earn in the UK. Nowhere near nowhere near.

Payman Langroudi: The price of dentistry isn’t more. [01:08:15]

Adeel Ali: Way less.

Payman Langroudi: So why is that? Why are restaurants more expensive but dentistry cheaper?

Adeel Ali: I think I think [01:08:20] healthcare hasn’t moved with like the, the hospitality industry, which is, which is quite and that’s what we [01:08:25] wanted to bring. We saw that, you know, if you go to, you go, you know, you go to the Fairmont, you go [01:08:30] to whatever, all these lovely hotels, they’ll really service you. But you don’t you don’t see it in healthcare, [01:08:35] which is it’s still in Dubai. It’s, it’s it’s not like that.

Payman Langroudi: So, so that was a sort of niche that [01:08:40] you said.

Adeel Ali: Why, why aren’t we bringing.

Payman Langroudi: It.

Adeel Ali: So look, we we we we, we called [01:08:45] our clinic a very innovative name. We just called it London Implant Clinic. Get [01:08:50] the London in there. You know, you know the Qataris love London and Harrods and that sort of thing. Are we just, [01:08:55] you know, we just really want to bring that service to them. So because Qatar is love being serviced.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah I bet. [01:09:00] Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Yeah I guess everybody does.

Payman Langroudi: So if you’ve gone above and beyond on the deck. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: We’ve got a nice little coffee bar [01:09:05] in there. We’re going to make, you know, you know, coffees and things like that. And we’ve got, you know, really high [01:09:10] tech equipment. Got really good surgeons in there, and we were bringing sort of other services [01:09:15] that they don’t currently do in, um, in Qatar at the moment, like [01:09:20] like full arch dentistry. They don’t do it for, you know, they don’t do it. They’ll do the very traditional [01:09:25] where they’ll take the teeth out, they’ll, they’ll take out, uh, you know, then they’ll give them a complete [01:09:30] denture. Wait three months. They’ll stage the whole stage, the whole process.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting. And [01:09:35] how did you get your first patient?

Adeel Ali: We’ve got, uh, marketing. So we’ve [01:09:40] got an in-house marketing team there. Um, yeah, we’ve got a full time CAD technician there. So again, [01:09:45] we didn’t we didn’t have any of these connections, you know, so the first connection we got is when we [01:09:50] were looking for a practice, we, the real estate agent that was taking [01:09:55] us around, you know, his English was very good. He was young, good looking guy. And in the car, [01:10:00] you know, we were speaking. The three of us, the three business partners said, you know, this guy’s good. We should we should offer him [01:10:05] something. Yeah. So we offered him a job. He joined us.

Payman Langroudi: As the marketing guy?

Adeel Ali: Uh, [01:10:10] no. As a as a, like a like a manager stroke, uh, a treatment coordinator. He’s like, yeah, we sold him [01:10:15] the vision. What we’re trying to do. He came on board, he introduced his mate who was like, um, another [01:10:20] young guy, 24, 25 years old, marketing, uh, marketing guy.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s are [01:10:25] these locals?

Adeel Ali: These are all locals? Yeah. Yeah, they all in Qatar, you know, this this this marketing chap that works [01:10:30] with us now. He’s worked on projects like, like Marvel, FIFA, like done loads of stuff. So [01:10:35] sold in the vision. He’s come on board full time. Full time.

Payman Langroudi: Wow.

Adeel Ali: Full time. [01:10:40]

Payman Langroudi: Um, so what does he do?

Adeel Ali: He does all.

Payman Langroudi: Social media.

Adeel Ali: All social media, ad creatives, [01:10:45] design everything.

Payman Langroudi: Paid ads out there.

Adeel Ali: Doing paid ads. Your cost per leads a lot.

Payman Langroudi: Digital [01:10:50] only.

Adeel Ali: Digital only right now. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so so the paid I mean, you know, cost per lead is a lot less [01:10:55] there for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Is it, is it. Yeah. Less competition.

Adeel Ali: Less competition, less competition forwarding. Then we’ve got a full time [01:11:00] CAD technician. So I’ve been from Pakistan.

Payman Langroudi: So in a squat you’ve [01:11:05] got these three full time.

Adeel Ali: We leveraged that for the UK as well.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah. But three full time people. [01:11:10] No you need.

Adeel Ali: You need to have two specialists full [01:11:15] time to open up a clinic in Qatar. They need to.

Payman Langroudi: Be the.

Adeel Ali: Rule. [01:11:20] That’s the.

Payman Langroudi: Rule.

Adeel Ali: So, you know, just imagine you open up a squat and you have to pay two dentists full time [01:11:25] when you’ve got no patients coming through the door. Yeah, that’s that’s a big cash bleed, right. Yeah. So you have to you have [01:11:30] to account for all of this.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a lot of like the the cost of entry is gigantic. [01:11:35]

Adeel Ali: It’s massive. So so my advice is, you know, really think. Careful, careful. Yeah. [01:11:40]

Payman Langroudi: Did it end up costing you a lot more than you imagined?

Adeel Ali: No, no, we we budgeted. You knew that. Yeah. We know we knew what our breakeven [01:11:45] was going to be for that, you know, so you got to have a sort of 6 to 12 months. You know what? We’ve got to hit breakeven at [01:11:50] least 12 months.

Payman Langroudi: Did you know dentists out there at all?

Adeel Ali: Not really.

Payman Langroudi: No one. So how did you find [01:11:55] out all this stuff? Prospecting.

Adeel Ali: Just prospecting people. Just, you know, hard, cold. Just. [01:12:00]

Payman Langroudi: Were you busy, like, going around trying to talk to as many people as possible.

Adeel Ali: Talk to people, talk to doctors. [01:12:05] We got a you know, we met a lot of doctors. Doctors there. Um, UK doctors [01:12:10] put us in touch with people. Had loads of meetings. A lot of them time waste some good [01:12:15] prospects. Put me in touch with X, Y and Z. And that’s how.

Payman Langroudi: That’s how. How do you like what was your [01:12:20] mindset at this point? Because was your mindset I’m going to [01:12:25] go there, see what’s possible, maybe do something, maybe not. Or [01:12:30] are you like that? You were saying all in, you’re going to make it work.

Adeel Ali: And do you know what I would say? My wife was [01:12:35] more all in than me because, like, she’s moving and the kids are moving. They’re going to be there. Well, I’m travelling back [01:12:40] and forth. So I was like, you know what? We’ll build this up, but I’ve still got the UK and build that up as well. And [01:12:45] you know, I always had the back of mind if it doesn’t work we always come back. But she was like, she actually [01:12:50] really had a pop at me. She said, look, I don’t like you talking like this. Look, we’ve done it. It has [01:12:55] to work.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s go all.

Adeel Ali: In. We have to go all in because it’s not going to work with this mentality. You know, like you’re not. [01:13:00] You’re giving UK so much care and attention. You have to give this care and attention as well. Always, I’m [01:13:05] only one guy. What do you want me to do? She said no, no. Well, you know, you’re going to make it work. You’re going to put the effort here because the [01:13:10] team are going to see that as well. So she really rewired me. So we’re just guns blazing [01:13:15] on both ends now. Yeah. For sure.

Payman Langroudi: And so I mean, where are you at? Are you are you breaking [01:13:20] even or.

Adeel Ali: No no. Hell no no no no no. We’ve been open for what, a few months now. Two, three months. Oh is [01:13:25] that it. Yeah. Yeah. So remember the whole process has probably taken about a year [01:13:30] to open, a year to open, you know, your rent free finishes up what, after about four months [01:13:35] and then cash flow starts. Right. So yeah. And and then getting an appointment [01:13:40] you know the CQC equivalent is the mop there. So getting appointment there to check your clinic [01:13:45] you know from a compliance standpoint and compliance is very tough there. Cqc is a [01:13:50] walk in the park compared to Mop. Yeah yeah really really. Yeah yeah yeah really [01:13:55] tough.

Payman Langroudi: And are you sort of funding your life with the travel back to the UK sort of thing.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. So, so obviously we’ve got [01:14:00] the business and then obviously I come back and I do, I work as well. So we’ve got. [01:14:05]

Payman Langroudi: To literally you’re taking 12, 15 flights a year. Yeah. Yeah. Like you’re [01:14:10] constantly back and forth.

Adeel Ali: Qatar Airways is nice. They look after.

Payman Langroudi: It is it.

Adeel Ali: Is. You’ve got a nice qsuite. So [01:14:15] you get to rest because you know, if it wasn’t for qsuite, then I wouldn’t be able to lie down. And, you [01:14:20] know, because I’m straight into surgery, I work seven days when I come back like it’s back to back like tomorrow, [01:14:25] I’m, I’m mentoring a full arch upper and lowercase Sunday, I’m doing the same thing again. So I’m here [01:14:30] for three weeks now. I’m working seven days. Literally. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Careful, buddy. You know.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. [01:14:35]

Payman Langroudi: It’s it’s it’s tough flying. Flying even in business class. Right. Is is is damaging. [01:14:40] Yeah I do feel it. The reason I’m telling you this. Not because I’ve done it myself, but I have so many [01:14:45] friends and family, like the types who spend their whole lives on planes. And, uh, [01:14:50] you look like a healthy guy and all that. Yeah, they can catch up. Some of these guys were healthy guys. Yeah, [01:14:55] and they got sick, man. They got sick. You know, flying is tough.

Adeel Ali: See the pay [01:15:00] the pay right now Again. There’s no option, is it? It [01:15:05] has to be a short stint, and I’ve got to make it work. Um, but, you know, [01:15:10] there’s light at the end of the tunnel. That’s how I. How I look at it. As long as you know.

Payman Langroudi: You’re young enough. You’re young enough.

Adeel Ali: You’re not [01:15:15] as young as I used to be.

Payman Langroudi: Energetic. You’re energetic enough and all that is. All I’m saying is there’s an [01:15:20] area of caution in it. Yeah, even a one hour flight is is [01:15:25] a pain. It’s a pain. Yeah. For us guys who don’t fly every week.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Payman Langroudi: One [01:15:30] hour, two hour flight. You feel a bit groggy a bit. Crap. Just the whole airport journey. All [01:15:35] of that.

Adeel Ali: It’s that. It’s that.

Payman Langroudi: That does it as.

Adeel Ali: Well. It’s going early. Waiting. Yeah, that sort of thing.

Payman Langroudi: But. But a [01:15:40] six hour flight every three weeks.

Adeel Ali: And then straight into work as.

Payman Langroudi: Well and straight into work seven [01:15:45] days a week. Be a little bit careful, dude. You know, like work six days a week. You know what I mean?

Adeel Ali: So [01:15:50] the thing is, when the thing is, when I come to the because the lifestyle is so chilled in [01:15:55] Qatar, you know.

Payman Langroudi: You do get the rest there.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. It’s like three weeks. It’s like because I’ve got two [01:16:00] clinicians there. Right. So I’m not doing any work there. Okay. It’s very relaxed. I get to train a lot. [01:16:05] Um, relax. We go out quite a bit as well, so it’s quite relaxed. It’s not intense, [01:16:10] but when I do come back. Where are you living?

Payman Langroudi: Are you. Are you renting somewhere?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, we rent a villa.

Payman Langroudi: They’re trying [01:16:15] to figure out what’s what before you get by place.

Adeel Ali: Exactly, exactly. But I think I think the culture in [01:16:20] in Qatar and Dubai, these places probably just to rent. Not so much in Dubai because. But I think, you [01:16:25] know, uh, you know, from a, um, investment standpoint, I don’t think the properties [01:16:30] appreciate as much in Qatar as they do in, in Dubai.

Payman Langroudi: Is it is it, as you would imagine, just like state [01:16:35] of the art, everything beautiful.

Adeel Ali: As in the properties there?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Adeel Ali: You do have [01:16:40] state of the art ones. We live in a villa. It’s a it’s a little bit, you know, we had to adjust to the [01:16:45] different, you know, like the, the colour schemes and things like that, you know, very Arab style. I don’t know if I can do this [01:16:50] or not.

Payman Langroudi: Gold everywhere.

Adeel Ali: Gold and gold and all that. Yeah. But, uh, you know, the kitchen had had red [01:16:55] cabinetry. I was like, oh my God. But I was like, you know what? We It’s just a kitchen. Do you know what I mean? [01:17:00] So, uh.

Payman Langroudi: It’s fun. And a swimming pool and stuff.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. So you’ve got, you’ve got, you’ve got the swimming pool there, and it’s [01:17:05] in a complex with five other villas, and they’ve got a beautiful lagoon outside. So we [01:17:10] go kayaking. Me and my son go kayaking.

Payman Langroudi: And we’ve got people that live in your villa and help you.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, I’ve got one [01:17:15] made so that that that’s a godsend. I mean if.

Payman Langroudi: You can standard there. Right.

Adeel Ali: It’s a standard thing [01:17:20] there. But it just it just gives me my wife a lot more time, you know, like, you know, we, you know, [01:17:25] because you know, she doesn’t need to do the ironing and cooking and that she likes [01:17:30] to cook, but, you know, the preparation of the food, you know, chopping up the thing and, you know, washing the dishes and stuff. It just gives [01:17:35] us so much more time, time we can spend.

Payman Langroudi: And what do you miss the most about the UK or what do they miss the most [01:17:40] about the UK?

Adeel Ali: Kids don’t miss much. I mean they’ve got their they had their friends but they’ve made new friends. Now my [01:17:45] wife doesn’t really miss much. I miss it because I’m, I was at work. The working relationships [01:17:50] that I have, um, miss my obviously I miss my parents and so forth, but because I’m [01:17:55] still dipping in and out, Um, you know, I get to see them, I get [01:18:00] to see the staff. And when I do come back, it’s like a deal’s back. So let’s go out for a meal. We have a good time.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:18:05] funny. I’ve got. I’ve got one of my best friends lives in Iran. Yeah. And, um, then he moved here [01:18:10] for a while. Yeah. And we realised I used to see him more when he used to live in Iran than when [01:18:15] he moved here.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah, because you make an effort to.

Payman Langroudi: Make an effort because. Oh, he’s just come. It’s his first day. Let’s go. It’s [01:18:20] his last day. He’s going. Yeah. Make the most of him while he’s here.

Adeel Ali: I see my friends more now. [01:18:25]

Payman Langroudi: It’s weird.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, because they know. When are you back? I’m back on this. This and this state. Yeah, right. They’re [01:18:30] coming. So I’ve got some guys, you know, my best mate from Manchester. He’s coming tomorrow to see me after after work. And so [01:18:35] they make an effort. So we see them all now. So it’s it’s it’s all good in that sense.

Payman Langroudi: We’re going to finish off with some quick [01:18:40] fire questions. Best lecture you’ve ever seen.

Adeel Ali: Dennis Parnell’s [01:18:45] lecture about ten years ago he had a six hour online seminar. Best lecture [01:18:50] I’ve ever done. He went around the room, he went basically, there’s a whole, uh, cohort of implant surgeons. He [01:18:55] just. There was no structure to it. He just went around each room, each delegate, and he had [01:19:00] a whiteboard. Sorry. He had a flipchart. What did you struggle with in Implantology? People [01:19:05] say implant design, sinus graft. What is platform switching? [01:19:10] And he just went one through and it was the best thing I’ve ever seen. Honestly.

Payman Langroudi: Tunnel. [01:19:15]

Adeel Ali: Tunnel. Yeah. Yeah. So he he is he’s he’s another good father of Implantology. [01:19:20] And that I implement that in my training now so I do I go around the room.

Payman Langroudi: And so it could be different [01:19:25] every time.

Adeel Ali: It’s different every time. Look what we’re struggling with guys. Boom boom boom. We’ve got three topics. All right. Let’s go.

Payman Langroudi: Nice. [01:19:30]

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The best book. Are you not [01:19:35] a book guy?

Adeel Ali: I’m a book guy. I’m a book guy. Um. How to stop worrying [01:19:40] and Start Living by Dale Carnegie.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, he’s got his famous book, How to Win Friends [01:19:45] and Influence.

Payman Langroudi: I read that.

Adeel Ali: One. Yeah, but how to stop Worrying and Start Living. That helped me in my dentistry as well.

Payman Langroudi: Really?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah, [01:19:50] there’s a story in there about, uh, a guy in World War two. When he got captured, the American guy got captured by the [01:19:55] Japanese, and, uh, he just got accustomed to the fact he’s going to be executed. [01:20:00] So he just.

Payman Langroudi: Stopped worrying about it.

Adeel Ali: I’m going to get executed. That’s cool. And [01:20:05] then the Japanese just. Just saw him just being normal and laughing, and he’s like, what’s wrong with this guy? [01:20:10] So they actually pulled him out and said, maybe we can use you for intelligence or something. [01:20:15] He actually saved his life by just accepting the fact. So I kind of I try and use that in dentistry. [01:20:20]

Payman Langroudi: Sounds a bit like that. Um. Uh, man’s quest for meaning. Frankl. [01:20:25] Viktor Frankl, you know, concentration camp.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, sort of. Sort of. Once, [01:20:30] once he realised he has the only thing he can control is his own, you know, habits. [01:20:35]

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Well, this is.

Payman Langroudi: Everything else was taken from him.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. I mean, you know, to [01:20:40] be honest, you know, with with what I do, I’ve always had the back of the head. Maybe one day I’ll end up going to GDC [01:20:45] because it’s such high risk work. Right? Yeah. And, you know, how would I pivot if I got into that situation? [01:20:50] What would I do? And I’ve just tried to sort of custom myself with that. God forbid it doesn’t happen, but [01:20:55] if it does, you know, I think I’ll be able to to manage that.

Payman Langroudi: So two people sitting here [01:21:00] who medically had to stop, really, you know, whether they had the arm issue [01:21:05] or whatever it was, had to stop, you know, and neither of them had bought [01:21:10] any sort of insurance for it.

Adeel Ali: Um, but.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a funny thing, because you [01:21:15] just think it’s not going to happen to me. Yeah. But anything could happen, you know, like I was riding a lime [01:21:20] bike just now. Literally. Like I hit my knee. I crashed into some guy. Gosh. Yeah. [01:21:25] Like anything could happen at any time.

Adeel Ali: At any time.

Payman Langroudi: Um, well, [01:21:30] we haven’t talked about this yet, but we will. Um, if you could indulge me, [01:21:35] if time and money was not a factor. Of course you’d jump into.

Adeel Ali: I [01:21:40] would spend more time with Juan Gonzalez [01:21:45] in America.

Payman Langroudi: Even more time, even more.

Adeel Ali: Even more time with him. And I’d. And I’d. And I’d [01:21:50] want to learn some new techniques in Guatemala with him for sure. Just I just want to be [01:21:55] around him more often. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: He’s your hero.

Adeel Ali: He’s. He’s my [01:22:00] hero. Just, just, you know, and just sit down with him, you know, over, over some coffee or something [01:22:05] and just talk if I, if, if time and finances had had no bearing on it. [01:22:10]

Payman Langroudi: Favourite Dental book.

Adeel Ali: Favourite Dental book would have to be [01:22:15] Ashok Sethi’s book on practical implantology. When I was when I was studying Timur, I read that book. [01:22:20] It’s just such an easy read. I just told one of my associates this morning, actually to buy that book. Brilliant [01:22:25] book. Business influence as [01:22:30] in the person, Grant Cardone.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah. I’ve been listening to him for about [01:22:35] 13 years. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I just, I, you know.

Payman Langroudi: I’m jealous of him. He annoys [01:22:40] me how successful he is.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, but you know what? He recently, he’s kind of changed. He’s he’s he’s [01:22:45] much more flamboyant now. Before he used to be just raw, hard sales. Yeah, I bought his, uh, [01:22:50] automotive, uh, sales course. It’s like a 12 CD [01:22:55] box set.

Payman Langroudi: Did it help?

Adeel Ali: Massively. I used to listen to that thing on repeat. Really? Yeah. And I also did Ashley [01:23:00] Latter’s course many years back. And he had, like, a CD.

Payman Langroudi: On all these drives that you’re doing?

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I used to just. [01:23:05]

Adeel Ali: Just same thing over and over again. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about this then. This is called [01:23:10] scaled for success. The Komodo approach. Yes. What does the Komodo approach mean?

Adeel Ali: Komodo. [01:23:15] Well, that concept came from you.

Payman Langroudi: Just like that picture.

Adeel Ali: I just like that picture. [01:23:20] Yeah, it’s pretty cool. So the Komodo approach came really from training with my jiu jitsu [01:23:25] coach. So I do some Brazilian jiu jitsu and he’s actually blind and he’s [01:23:30] the strongest man I’ve ever grappled with. And you know, I, I don’t know if you know much about jiu jitsu, but [01:23:35] it’s, you know, grappling, grappling on the ground and, um, you know, typically, [01:23:40] you know, because I’m not as skilled as him, I’d be frantically moving around trying to get him out. Get him off [01:23:45] me. But he’s just so calm and measured in his approach. You know, he’ll he’ll just move his [01:23:50] arm one hand at a time, move his, you know, positioning, his hip positioning. [01:23:55] Just mastery. Just just just effortless.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Adeel Ali: But if you want to put on a submission, [01:24:00] you can just put it on just like that. So I said to him, you know, like, you [01:24:05] know, the way that you do Jiu-Jitsu, you you remind me of a Komodo [01:24:10] dragon. So he started laughing. I said, you know what? Also, the way that you do jiu jitsu [01:24:15] business should be done like that as well.

Payman Langroudi: But what’s the Komodo?

Adeel Ali: The Komodo approach is [01:24:20] a way that I’ve built up my career and done business. So I’ve moved at a very [01:24:25] measured. Although I’ve been all in. I’ve moved, uh, measured pace, learned [01:24:30] my craft, got in touch with the right mentors step by step. You know, just making [01:24:35] sure I know every aspect of that. And then when I was ready for the real business, which started after Covid, I [01:24:40] went into it hockey stick growth on my practices and bang bang, bang bang. So it’s about doing [01:24:45] I want it. And especially I wanted to write a book like this, because we’re just seeing the new generation of dentists [01:24:50] coming out that are being led a lot by Instagram. I mean, I was talking to a fourth year dentist [01:24:55] who came to shadowing with Qatar recently.

Payman Langroudi: Student.

Adeel Ali: Student who came to see me in Qatar. He’s he’s he lives in Qatar. [01:25:00] He goes to Manchester University. And I said what kind of conversations are you having? He [01:25:05] said, you know, most dentists I speak to, they just want to go into aesthetic cosmetic [01:25:10] dentistry. And I was like, well, that’s it’s just being led by [01:25:15] a lot of it’s being led by social media and Instagram, which is a little bit concerning for me. I’m, you know, we [01:25:20] should be sort of much more healthcare orientated, especially in our younger days. So I wanted to [01:25:25] write a book about sort of like kind of traditional ways of learning your craft. And [01:25:30] I’m telling you, if you learn your craft the way I’ve done it, patients will respect you more. You’ve put the hours in, you’ve done the hard work. [01:25:35] You’ve you’ve, you’ve you’ve given the time. And you know, when we speak to patients, I always try [01:25:40] and remind them that, you know, we we know this inside out. And I think patients will respect [01:25:45] you more for that.

Payman Langroudi: To learn your craft in a sort of ordered manner.

Adeel Ali: Ordered manner.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. What else does [01:25:50] it say in there?

Adeel Ali: It talks. It talks about my journey. It talks about when the right time is is [01:25:55] to scale your business and it focuses.

Payman Langroudi: How do you scale your business marketing? [01:26:00]

Adeel Ali: No, no, there’s more to it than that. You’ve got to feel right yourself.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Adeel Ali: When [01:26:05] you’ve sort of it all starts from mastering your craft first. Because if [01:26:10] you haven’t mastered your craft, you can’t win people. You know, I always say in my business and I always say to my dentist [01:26:15] before winning a patient, you have to win your team every day. I’ve been doing it for 17 years. I go in, win [01:26:20] the team, make sure they’re on Team Adele every day, every day. So you have [01:26:25] to know yourself first if you’ve mastered your craft because you can’t sell a poor [01:26:30] proposition, you know, to your team, to your family. Right?

Payman Langroudi: It’s a very good point.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, [01:26:35] 100%. I mean, look how you scaled your business, right? You know, you knew that you only did the lab after [01:26:40] 15 years, you said, but you could look at it as a negative. But, you know, sometimes you it was the [01:26:45] right time for you to do it, you know, and you had the backing and the support of your team to say, you know what, hey, [01:26:50] we should do this, but.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So so yeah, make sure you know your craft. Yeah. Make sure you hire good people [01:26:55] and you inspire them every day. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Exactly. But the hiring the right people, they they’ll [01:27:00] assimilate to your culture. They know who you are and what you stand for.

Payman Langroudi: So you’ve got that. [01:27:05] My team are good.

Adeel Ali: It’s good. And the proof is in the.

Payman Langroudi: Pudding that will come out to the patient.

Adeel Ali: You’re saying to the [01:27:10] patient the proof is in the pudding how you’ve scaled one site, right. So I’ve [01:27:15] grown multiple sites before. So I’ve done it. I’ve got proof in the pudding now I’ve scaled the score. So I’ve scaled an acquisition uh, [01:27:20] in revenue I’m talking about I’ve done a squat, grown A to X revenue in [01:27:25] a short period of time. Now that’s a good that’s a good package. Yeah, yeah. [01:27:30] We’ve got these sort of systems and processes in place. We can take that. And now move it along. [01:27:35] Don’t try and do it too early. You’ll just get stung.

Payman Langroudi: And the systems and processes themselves. [01:27:40] Yes. Did you chance on them? Did you ask?

Adeel Ali: That’s why. That’s why you need [01:27:45] good partners that are good in operational management. I can I can sit down with my business partner and say, look, I’m [01:27:50] gonna we have mine dumping sessions. I’ll say, look, someone who’s my wife or Adnan, [01:27:55] look, this is mine dump. I’m just gonna reel a few things out. I need you to collate this information [01:28:00] and put it into something. And we’ll tend to have mine dumping sessions all the time. It [01:28:05] may not make sense, but they take that information and they put it into a system, and then they’ll tweak and refine. And we’re constantly refining [01:28:10] those techniques. You know, I’ll, I’ll, you know, I’ve got my own sort of, um, eight [01:28:15] step system for how a consultation should be done. I’ve developed it myself over, over [01:28:20] the years. That’s going to be my next book, by the way. Cool approach to dental [01:28:25] consultation.

Payman Langroudi: Give us give us some tips on.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Okay. So you need to, um, consultation [01:28:30] doesn’t start in the room. It starts from your digital presence. It stands for what [01:28:35] a patient can research you about. Right. So with all my mentees they need You [01:28:40] need to have a website. You need to double down on your Google reviews. You need those digital assets [01:28:45] because the consumer or the patient is well informed today, especially if you’re doing [01:28:50] high end services like Implantology.

Payman Langroudi: So I noticed, for instance, your practice in Bournemouth, only five star [01:28:55] reviews, only five star and a good number of them like 60, 50, 65. [01:29:00]

Adeel Ali: And you know know we’re up to about I think 120 in.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:29:05] agree with you. I agree with you in a dental practice setting is quite easier than in other setting. [01:29:10] Yeah.

Adeel Ali: I remember most of my guys are probably travelling implant surgeons, so getting reviews from [01:29:15] patients that you see on a one off is difficult. So the first thing is you need digital [01:29:20] presence. You need so somebody can research you. Yeah. So what I usually do with my associates, I [01:29:25] just type the name into Google. Nothing. I said what’s patient going to read about you. Nothing. You [01:29:30] know, they need to be halfway in the sales journey before they even come into the consultation. When [01:29:35] they come in, how they’re treated by the staff. And, you know, it’s just normal business principles.

Payman Langroudi: Call them before they turn up. [01:29:40]

Adeel Ali: To us we. Well, we phoned them for like a reminder.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but [01:29:45] it’s an interesting idea. Yeah. That I’m your dentist. Um, is there anything you want to ask me before? That’s [01:29:50] good. It’s a brilliant idea. Yeah. Um, but.

Adeel Ali: I think you can do that on a one surgery site. It gets [01:29:55] a little bit harder when you’re scaling.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it’s that sort of scaling, the unscalable sort of idea. [01:30:00] But that’s.

Adeel Ali: That’s really good idea.

Payman Langroudi: Alright then. Then patient comes.

Adeel Ali: When we, when we, when we do, [01:30:05] when we get a lead in the staff know what to say on the phone. Okay. You’re going to be treated.

Payman Langroudi: Are they hyping [01:30:10] you.

Adeel Ali: They’re hyping.

Payman Langroudi: Me. That’s the part of the training.

Adeel Ali: Training part hype [01:30:15] all the associates. You’ll you’ll see Doctor Cosimo who’s done this and this fantastic surgeon. And remember, [01:30:20] those associates have sold their proposition to this team. So it’s actually it’s genuine. [01:30:25] Like, so if they’re selling me, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: In the training. Is it. So you’ve got some receptionist. Are you literally [01:30:30] saying doctor X. These are the three things you want to say about him. Doctor. Is it like. [01:30:35]

Adeel Ali: Not as it would be good if we did it like that. But what I usually get the reception we’ve had, we’ve just [01:30:40] had a new receptionist. I’ll get her into the surgery and say, look what we’re doing, and I’ll explain to her, look what we’re doing.

Payman Langroudi: And the goal [01:30:45] there is to inspire.

Adeel Ali: Inspire her saying, oh my God, you gave that teeth. Now it’s genuine when she’s speaking on [01:30:50] the phone, but.

Payman Langroudi: You do train her to say it.

Adeel Ali: We train it to say it, but now she can talk about, you know what she [01:30:55] means. She means it.

Payman Langroudi: She means great. Great. So she’s she’s selling. She’s selling the dentist [01:31:00] to the.

Adeel Ali: Selling the dentists selling. The practice patient comes. A patient will finesse them. Coffee, coffee, everything. [01:31:05] Finesse them. You know, we’ve got really comfortable chairs. We don’t have, you know, like the golds and the [01:31:10] whites. We’ve got very comfortable, warm environment. They get finessed. Bring the patient in. [01:31:15] I’ll always do something, you know, make sure that I have presence.

Payman Langroudi: Do you go and get the patient.

Adeel Ali: Uh, [01:31:20] if I’ve got time. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Got time?

Adeel Ali: Yeah. Yeah, sometimes. Or [01:31:25] sometimes I, you know.

Payman Langroudi: I really believe in that. I really believe in that. If you look at it from the [01:31:30] patient’s perspective, the dentist himself coming out. And I just think that you [01:31:35] set the agenda. Outside, you.

Adeel Ali: Do.

Payman Langroudi: The little, little handshakes, little touches, little thing that you’re saying [01:31:40] it’s.

Adeel Ali: Important.

Payman Langroudi: Little conversation as they’re coming in.

Adeel Ali: Especially if you’re an associate, if you don’t have control of your [01:31:45] environment. I’m very blessed. You know, I’m the owner, right? So I’ve got control of the environment. I’ve got control of the training of [01:31:50] the nurses. So they’re very warm and welcoming. If you’re an associate and you know you can still make it work. [01:31:55]

Payman Langroudi: The nurse is busy enough, right? The nurse is busy cleaning, doing all that. Now to get the nurse [01:32:00] to go out. She’s not going to be in the best, best frame of mind probably.

Adeel Ali: I’m probably just a little bit lazy, to be honest with [01:32:05] you, I think. I think to improve it. Okay, I’ll take your advice.

Payman Langroudi: Patients come in now.

Adeel Ali: I’ll. [01:32:10] I’ll always stand. I’ll have a big smile. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Because, you know, like I said, the first [01:32:15] five seconds, that’s when you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Doing it at that point, that that moment that I’m talking about.

Adeel Ali: And then I always [01:32:20] try and make the consultation entertaining. If I haven’t made my patient laugh in the consultation, [01:32:25] I’ve done something wrong. I’ve had some miserable patients, like just like, [01:32:30] like really miserable. But I’ve got to find an angle where I can make them laugh. So, you know, we obviously build [01:32:35] rapport. Ask very pertinent.

Payman Langroudi: Questions. Questions?

Adeel Ali: Open questions. Um, but [01:32:40] it’s got to be very direct as well because, you know, you got you got a set [01:32:45] time as well.

Payman Langroudi: How long is your consultation? One hour.

Adeel Ali: Always one hour. [01:32:50] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do you reckon at the end of that hour you pretty much know what’s going to happen next? Like you’ve worked [01:32:55] out the clinical situation and you’ve worked out the patients.

Adeel Ali: Sometimes it’s like when it’s very complex, [01:33:00] you know, I’ll say, look, I need to come back to you on it. But most of the time, you know.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, the clinical [01:33:05] decisions, you’ve done so many, you kind of know. But I’m talking about the patients, you know, like, these are big [01:33:10] things, big, big, big stories, big like commitments the patient’s going to go through.

Adeel Ali: Well, [01:33:15] the thing is, again, because if you don’t if you’ve done your prep work before, if you’ve got, you know, they’ve read your reviews, they kind of know [01:33:20] who.

Payman Langroudi: You are, what to expect already.

Adeel Ali: Look, if a patient’s coming to me, they’ve already they know they want a full [01:33:25] jaw. So we’ve put if you want to have a full jaw implant, you know Doctor Ali is probably [01:33:30] the best guy for you. We’re going to put you in with him. He’s going to explain the procedure, and patients kind of know if [01:33:35] they need all the teeth.

Payman Langroudi: Has someone already mentioned? Hey, by the way, this could cost 30 grand.

Adeel Ali: Yeah, yeah. So [01:33:40] we do give you we have given indicative figures. But again, even [01:33:45] I always try and make it affordable for patients. So we’ve got because we’ve got the the power [01:33:50] of the in-house lab. I’m very surgically efficient as well. So we can we’ve got that price [01:33:55] elasticity around it. And then if patients have really got a small budget, what we do is bring [01:34:00] them onto the course as a life patient. So so we don’t let I try not to let any [01:34:05] patient slip through because we genuinely want to treat them, you know, and we’ll work with them.

Payman Langroudi: In that hour. You [01:34:10] do all your investigations as well. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Typically we’ll do a cbct. Uh, if [01:34:15] we’ve got time, we’ll do intraoral scan, but we usually do the diagnostics like intraoral scans and clinical photographs if they commit [01:34:20] to.

Payman Langroudi: The treatment plan. Is that still within that hour? You’re saying this is what I think we’re going to do?

Adeel Ali: What we do. We [01:34:25] do a we call it handing over the baton. So I’ll have I’ll have a treatment plan and I’ll give [01:34:30] indicative figures to the patient. So you know Mrs. X.

Payman Langroudi: 30 to 40.

Adeel Ali: Yeah. [01:34:35] We try and keep our prices lower than that.

Payman Langroudi: 15 to 30. Yeah.

Adeel Ali: 15 to 2015. Yeah. Yeah [01:34:40] I need to work in your practice. But you know, your treatments probably [01:34:45] kind of kind of, you know, around 20 something like that. But. And the TCO is there. So [01:34:50] we do a good discharge and hand the baton over. So I’ll typically call the TCO [01:34:55] in. I’ll say, look, uh, Lindsay, this is Mrs. X. You know, we’ve talked about her. We’ve [01:35:00] given us her options. I think she’s leaning towards this option. I’ve told it it’s going to cost around [01:35:05] this much. But can you kindly go through, you know, each step, answer any questions and just, you know, [01:35:10] give her, you know, some costings and see how she’d like to proceed. And it’s a nice discharge to her. [01:35:15] So what I’ve done is I’ve reiterated everything. Yeah. The patient’s seen.

Payman Langroudi: In front of the patient. [01:35:20]

Adeel Ali: In front of the patient. Yeah. And then I’ve given a good discharge to Lindsay because she knows exactly what to do now. [01:35:25]

Payman Langroudi: And Lindsay gets to sign off. Yeah. How are they going to pay and all that?

Adeel Ali: She gets a. [01:35:30]

Payman Langroudi: Sign, and the very next visit you’re drilling, you’re.

Adeel Ali: Uh. No. So we’ll typically do a diagnostic [01:35:35] appointment as well. So we’ll do, we’ll do uh, we’ve already done the CT scan. So we’ll do the intraoral scans. We’ll [01:35:40] do clinical photographs. And then what my CAD technician does, he’ll take the CT scan. [01:35:45] He’ll take the intraoral scans.

Payman Langroudi: He’ll digital.

Adeel Ali: Digital. He’ll do [01:35:50] aura’s jiggery pokery and then and then and [01:35:55] then, um, the appointment after that, or sometimes, you know, the, the sales [01:36:00] will close the sale and then, you know, if they’re coming from quite far because we patients from sometimes they come [01:36:05] from Liverpool, Scotland, Gloucester, wherever it is, you know, I’ll typically say to Lindsay in front [01:36:10] of the patient, look, if Mrs. X is happy to, you know, get her to wait, I’ll do the scans. I’ll do the, [01:36:15] um, the intraoral scans today.

Payman Langroudi: And Qatar, literally. You’re doing the same thing. [01:36:20]

Adeel Ali: Literally doing the same thing. Totally different culture.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Adeel Ali: Totally different, um, mindset [01:36:25] and And care towards healthcare. Yeah, [01:36:30] very fortunate. In the UK we actually patients like care a lot about their health, dental [01:36:35] health, oral health. In Qatar we’ve we’ve seen a little shift in that, which is [01:36:40] you know I think sometimes aesthetics takes precedence over health. [01:36:45]

Payman Langroudi: Over everything.

Adeel Ali: Over everything. You know. So you know I’ve had patients with grossly carious teeth, veneers, veneers. No [01:36:50] no no no no no we’re not doing that. And sometimes when you have to give [01:36:55] them the raw truth about it, you know, we need to improve your your dietary [01:37:00] behaviours and we need to do a phase of stabilisation.

Payman Langroudi: Just they don’t want to.

Adeel Ali: Don’t want to know don’t [01:37:05] don’t come back. So but so you know it’s early days and we need to sort of find a [01:37:10] way to figure that out. And again we’re in deep waters. We’ll figure that out. Um, but yeah, [01:37:15] I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned from Qatar is, um, dentistry [01:37:20] in different countries and different cultures is totally different beast, totally different beast. [01:37:25] And the value of it as well. You know, we’re very, you know, coming back here, just realise [01:37:30] how much people actually value the healthcare. They may not have the affordability, but they still value.

Payman Langroudi: What thing is you’d [01:37:35] imagine over there everyone’s like really into this thing. But but it’s a different culture, different culture.

Adeel Ali: Different [01:37:40] thing. Dubai is probably the same as well. Yeah. Totally different culture. You know, they’ll spend people will spend [01:37:45] things on aesthetics and luxurious items, but they may not want to spend on [01:37:50] fixing their oral health. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been a massive pleasure, man. I’ve really [01:37:55] enjoyed it. And the thing I think I’ve learned the most from you is to be more courageous, very courageous guy.

Adeel Ali: You’re [01:38:00] a courageous.

Payman Langroudi: Guy. You’re a courageous guy.

Adeel Ali: You’re turning it down. You listen what you’ve done with enlightened, you’ve been established for what, [01:38:05] 20? How many years? 20. And you know, you you’re you’re the courage.

Payman Langroudi: I like the way [01:38:10] you jump into these sort of unknowns, man. It’s super interesting. It’s super interesting. [01:38:15]

Adeel Ali: I wouldn’t say always do it now. Now I’m getting a little bit older. I’m just trying to tame it down a bit. [01:38:20] But it comes it comes from a place of needing to do it [01:38:25] rather than wanting to do it, if that makes sense. It’s either we make it work or.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:38:30] just the way you look at it, though, isn’t it the context that you look at it? Super, super, super fun having you and [01:38:35] coming all the way, all the way in as well.

Adeel Ali: Thank you so much. I appreciate your time, man.

[VOICE]: This [01:38:40] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where [01:38:45] you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:38:50] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [01:38:55]

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. If you got this far, you must have listened [01:39:00] to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through [01:39:05] and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got [01:39:10] some value out of it.

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