[VOICE: This [00:00:05] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you get to go [00:00:10] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:15] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:00:20]

Payman Langroudi: One of the most common questions I get is how do I do more teeth whitening? The basis [00:00:25] of that is to really believe in it, and the basis of that is to fully understand it. Join us for enlightened [00:00:30] online training on enlightened online training to understand how to assess a case [00:00:35] quickly, how to deliver brilliant results every time. Next time. Whitening underwhelms. Try [00:00:40] and lighten. Now let’s get to the pod. It gives me great pleasure to welcome Amber Aplin onto the [00:00:45] podcast. Amber has a practice in the Scottish Borders, a [00:00:50] biomimetic practice very much including therapists and [00:00:55] teachers on all that. And I definitely want to talk about that. Um, a career that started [00:01:00] out in the military, right? Is that right?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Military? Yeah. Straight from [00:01:05] uni to the military. So. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Why did you join the military?

Amber Aplin: My [00:01:10] father was actually in the army as well. My father. So he kind of said, oh, I [00:01:15] saw the benefits of it through him.

Payman Langroudi: So as a.

Amber Aplin: Dentist. Yeah. As a.

Payman Langroudi: Dentist. Dad. [00:01:20] Yeah. As a dentist in the military.

Amber Aplin: I saw firsthand the benefits the travel through throughout the world and [00:01:25] everything. So I thought it would be great, you know, for even for a six years, it’s a great just start to [00:01:30] life and for experience. So I just went straight into it from actually third year of university, [00:01:35] joined cadetship for my last two years and got some [00:01:40] pay and some books, you know, and yeah.

Payman Langroudi: University was Newcastle.

Amber Aplin: Newcastle. [00:01:45]

Payman Langroudi: Huh. Yeah. And so let’s get into the military thing because I’m not really clear on it. [00:01:50] So what happens? What is there a deal where they say, we’ll pay you this much if you stay that [00:01:55] long?

Amber Aplin: The first. Yeah, the first step is about six years minimum, uh, [00:02:00] service. So they train you up, you go to Sandhurst. Um, I [00:02:05] think normal military would be a whole year at Sandhurst for officer training. [00:02:10] Um, and we go straight in as an officer from dental school because we’re qualified [00:02:15] with a postgrad. Yeah, um, but our Sandhurst is about five weeks worth [00:02:20] of the full year. Um, and it’s it’s pretty intensive, and it’s I [00:02:25] loved it, I loved it, it was. You’re marching around, you learn weapon craft [00:02:30] skills for shooting, um, your.

Payman Langroudi: Basic military training.

Amber Aplin: Basic training? [00:02:35] Up at the crack of dawn. You’re picking litter. Um, you’re out running at [00:02:40] six, seven in the morning, so carrying weight, going on, [00:02:45] um, mini kind of beds and stuff 3 or 4 nights away, um, all [00:02:50] really, really great fun. But they push you. They push you to you kind of near limits. [00:02:55] I think physically they try and break you a little bit.

Payman Langroudi: To then rebuild you at the point.

Amber Aplin: Um, I [00:03:00] think it’s a taster of, um, probably the full course and it’s kind of called Vicars and Tarts course, [00:03:05] I think. But actually, it’s pretty tough. You know, I was quite glad and quite proud to get through it. [00:03:10] Um, and then you go into other training at Keogh for dentist specific training, um, [00:03:15] learning about the military way of record keeping and just, you know, [00:03:20] other things like that and more kind of, um, staying away doing it’s [00:03:25] even doing lots of training in as if you’re in doing operational dentistry [00:03:30] and working with medics. So field kind of not surgeries but [00:03:35] you know, first aid and things and CPR and things. So that was a great [00:03:40] experience. You make great friends for life you know.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. So now you’re now you’ve kind of got the basic training [00:03:45] of both military and dental. Yeah. Then what you just in a dental surgery, like most [00:03:50] dentists, five days a week.

Amber Aplin: I was shipped out straight away to Germany. And, you [00:03:55] know, I remember arriving in my first camp, it was it was called Fallingbostel. And [00:04:00] it was near, um, near Paderborn, I think Paderborn. And, um, I arrived there about 11 [00:04:05] p.m. at night and no one was around. I thought no one was there to greet you. This is the first step [00:04:10] of the real life, you know, and as I kind of just newly fresh faced grad, um, [00:04:15] and then just had to find accommodation somewhere and just. But anyway, the job [00:04:20] itself is, is 9 to 5. Um, but you can [00:04:25] be called to go anywhere at any time. So you’ve got to be prepared to just go with [00:04:30] it really and not really question it.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s imagine there’s no, you know, security situation, [00:04:35] your day to day, 9 to 5 appointments as you would in a what NHS [00:04:40] type situation is that what it is or do you get longer.

Amber Aplin: You get as long as you need. We’re in year [00:04:45] I did over in Germany. Um, and then all the, all the kind [00:04:50] of new grads from that intake all met together kind of once every, I think every two [00:04:55] weeks for a day away somewhere social. It was very, very social. Very, very good fun and [00:05:00] training as well into that mix as well, of course. Um, but the day [00:05:05] to day work was kind of compared to now. It was very basic. I think our main aim is to get soldiers [00:05:10] fit for deployment. So lots of amalgams, extractions and not [00:05:15] much else. Not much else.

Payman Langroudi: So if a soldier wanted teeth whitening, he couldn’t come in and [00:05:20] say gimme teeth whitening. That wasn’t available.

Amber Aplin: Anywhere. I mean, this is a long time ago now.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Amber Aplin: I [00:05:25] mean, I qualified in 1980 something.

Payman Langroudi: I want, like, ortho. You couldn’t come in and say [00:05:30] I want.

Amber Aplin: There was ortho. Oh, there was actually more for kids in the in the forces and all. So I don’t [00:05:35] think soldiers got ortho. No. No ortho, no cosmetic stuff. Um, did anterior composites. But these [00:05:40] are young soldiers. Normally.

Payman Langroudi: So not.

Amber Aplin: That much. So not much. Not much kind of cosmetic [00:05:45] stuff. Mostly fit, healthy young men. And few, obviously women as [00:05:50] well. Over there. And and kids over in Germany as well.

Payman Langroudi: And then how [00:05:55] does the pay work. You salaried.

Amber Aplin: Salaried. Yeah. Great salary straight away. Um, yeah. [00:06:00] Other benefits. Lots of travel, you know, and, um, they encourage [00:06:05] training over there. So in the forces. So, um.

Payman Langroudi: Cpd training.

Amber Aplin: Loads [00:06:10] of CPD, they encourage you to do postgrads and study and yeah, you have meet [00:06:15] together to do training days and present cases. And I did my exams through [00:06:20] the military, you know, the mjdf and I think that was about it. But [00:06:25] other other kind of training courses within the Army as well.

Payman Langroudi: So then [00:06:30] how many years do you stay in each place? So you were in Germany for say five years?

Amber Aplin: Germany? I was [00:06:35] each postings typically 2 to 3 years. Well, VTI is one year and then we move after the VTI year [00:06:40] somewhere else. Yeah. So I was in Germany for most of my career actually, because I really enjoyed it over there.

Payman Langroudi: Did [00:06:45] you learn German?

Amber Aplin: Yeah, a little bit German. Yep. Learn enough to get by? Certainly. Order food and stuff. [00:06:50] Um, I couldn’t quite hold a conversation, but I did [00:06:55] enjoy it.

Payman Langroudi: So how about during those, say, 15 years you [00:07:00] were doing that? Yeah. Was there a situation where suddenly war broke out and suddenly you [00:07:05] were taken to Iraq or something or whatever?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. I mean, we did it [00:07:10] all the time. I actually missed out on an up to, I think it was to Bosnia at the time because [00:07:15] I had a skiing injury. Um, so I had an ACL rupture, so I wasn’t able to go. And fortunately, [00:07:20] um, I did go over to I was in Northern Ireland for three [00:07:25] years. That’s kind of a bit like a deployment. It’s a little bit, um, high risk at times. [00:07:30] Some interesting situations in Northern Ireland you could find yourself in if you’re not careful. Yeah. [00:07:35] Looking under your car for bombs and things and, um, certain areas that you [00:07:40] couldn’t go to. Um, but I was quite relaxed about it. You got to live your life [00:07:45] as well. And as long as you’re sensible.

Payman Langroudi: I guess the training must address that. Sort [00:07:50] of.

Amber Aplin: It does. And I think it expects you to have a certain bit of common sense as well, you know, which I didn’t always [00:07:55] have, to be honest. So I used to compete horses and stuff. And I had, um, I [00:08:00] remember times of taking my horse in a horse box around looking for [00:08:05] a venue somewhere near the border, and ended up finding [00:08:10] this funeral procession. Um, and it wasn’t nice [00:08:15] situation to be in, and very quickly saw the the holes lining up and and [00:08:20] you trying to get out and they’re starting to wonder, you know, what you’re doing. And they obviously knew that you weren’t supposed [00:08:25] to be there and things. And so just quickly had to try and do a U-turn and get out of there quick, smart [00:08:30] and just little bits like that I’d be really careful with. And I wasn’t the most sensible, to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: Um.

Amber Aplin: But [00:08:35] I still believe you’ve got to live life and make [00:08:40] the most of it and not not be scared to do things.

Payman Langroudi: So when [00:08:45] you look back on on those years, what’s the emotion that goes [00:08:50] through you? Is it is it okay? You had a lot of fun. You met a lot of people career wise. [00:08:55] Do you feel like you sort of stood still? Yeah. Dentally in that period.

Amber Aplin: I [00:09:00] kind of wish I, I mean, I loved it so much and I was ready to go when I went because I had a young family at the time. [00:09:05] So I’d, I think my three children just before I left the forces. Um, [00:09:10] and then just before you leave, you think, Crikey, I’ve been doing amalgams and extractions all my all my career, [00:09:15] and suddenly you’ve got to suddenly upskill hugely before you go [00:09:20] ready. Faced with looking for employment outside? Um, so [00:09:25] that was a time I really started to study and find training, and I [00:09:30] never stopped, really. But you’re right. I think had I left sooner and set up my own practice sooner, I’d [00:09:35] probably been slightly better off. I’m late to the game, basically with ownership, I would [00:09:40] say. Yeah, for sure.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, I mean, life [00:09:45] takes you where it takes you, right? That’s that’s that’s that’s an interesting whole question itself. [00:09:50] I do want to ask one other question about soldiers, because I wasn’t [00:09:55] really aware of this, that almost every single soldier who sees battle, [00:10:00] sees action, ends up with some form of PTSD. Is that [00:10:05] correct? Because I thought it was a tiny minority. But the soldiers I’ve [00:10:10] spoken to, they say themselves and everyone they know suffers [00:10:15] from some form of PTSD.

Amber Aplin: I would imagine so. I mean, I was very lucky not to witness anything [00:10:20] like that at all yourself. I’ve got I’ve got friends who have lost very close friends. [00:10:25] And, you know, I think that was certainly true. I would say I [00:10:30] was very lucky to come away without any of that kind of exposure, I would say. Um, I [00:10:35] mean, a great time. Loved it. Uh. Hard work. I think I actually learned a lot of resilience from the forces, [00:10:40] because you get told. Drop of a hat to go. I mean, I came back from having my third child, [00:10:45] and I was still actually feeding her at the time and straight back into work, and I was sent within a few days [00:10:50] over to Northern Ireland for just a two week, um, two week kind of visit [00:10:55] to this practice to cover some someone’s annual leave. And, um, you know, [00:11:00] I hadn’t been trained on the new system there for software, for note taking. So you just suddenly taken [00:11:05] away from all suddenly being off leave for six months, you know, and and then, [00:11:10] um, yeah, just without the proper training. It wasn’t always well thought out, actually, sometimes. [00:11:15] And, um, you just got to get on with it. It’s got to go find find the best way to get through it. And, [00:11:20] um. Yeah, I think it builds a lot of resilience. You can’t question it. You’ve just got to do what you’re told [00:11:25] to do, um, and make the best of it.

Payman Langroudi: But what I’m kind of getting at is, is a soldier [00:11:30] patient different? Sometimes? Yes. Because of these call it let’s call it mental [00:11:35] health struggles. Yeah. Do you have to did you come across [00:11:40] that situation from your patients. You know, there were people who’d been through something, and then.

Amber Aplin: I [00:11:45] was based mostly, I suppose, in recruit training places, I suppose, rather [00:11:50] than places where people came back from. Um, yeah. It depends where you’re based, I suppose. [00:11:55] And I wasn’t really based with anywhere, um, who were in the kind of fighting regiments as [00:12:00] far as I know. Um, so however [00:12:05] soldiers that we treat, the main difference is there’s no consent because [00:12:10] they don’t question it.

Payman Langroudi: Um.

Amber Aplin: You just say this is what we need to do to get your tooth [00:12:15] fit or stable. And they say, fine, you know, and and, um, it’s like [00:12:20] you need to know what I’m doing here. Is that okay? And, you know, and they don’t seem to, um, there was [00:12:25] no way they would. And again, they’re soldiers and were majors or captains. And in [00:12:30] the military, you’re not trained to question authority for even a second. So there was no consent [00:12:35] in my mind. And it was very tricky to.

Payman Langroudi: So when you came back into civilian land, [00:12:40] did you find that challenging because you had to overexplain things to people?

Amber Aplin: The biggest [00:12:45] challenge for me straight away was, um, making sure that I knew my worth, [00:12:50] because in the military, there’s no they don’t pay for the treatments over there in the transactions. There’s no transactions [00:12:55] at all for what you do. So everything is free at the point of, um, service. [00:13:00] Yeah. So, yeah. And I was straight into a job which [00:13:05] was NHS mixed private. I was there for like one year. And these patients that came [00:13:10] in that were fully private, I was like, I’m not good enough to treat these guys. You know, I’ve got just I didn’t feel like [00:13:15] I was worthy of looking after these people and I’d have to upskill so much. And [00:13:20] I felt I wanted to give them a fantastic service to make them feel they had value [00:13:25] for money. You know, it’s only I mean, this is going back, I think, you [00:13:30] know, 20 years now, um, 18, 20 years and and [00:13:35] maybe a private new patient would be about £80 at the time. And I was like, crikey! [00:13:40] You know, I’ve got to make this really, really great. Just so they know. They’ve had great value, great service. So that [00:13:45] was my mindset straight off the bat.

Payman Langroudi: I think people who come straight out of university into into private sort of situations [00:13:50] or near university, they have that same struggle and they probably am I worthy? [00:13:55]

Amber Aplin: Yeah, I would guess so. Um, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So how you got over that [00:14:00] in the end, right. Pardon? You got over that.

Amber Aplin: It took a while to upskill and train [00:14:05] and train and train till I felt like I was good enough. Good. And and very [00:14:10] good. And so I knew my skills were competent and great. It took a long time, actually, to be [00:14:15] fair.

Payman Langroudi: So what led you down this biomimetic route? I mean, upskilling could [00:14:20] have meant anything, couldn’t it? Yeah. You could have gone to Khoisan spear and.

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Been [00:14:25] prepping.

Amber Aplin: That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: Prep happy, I guess. You know, people call that, um. [00:14:30] Or you could have gone. You could have become an a line bleach blonde person or. Yeah, all sorts [00:14:35] of different directions. You could have gone. Yeah. What was. What was the influence that led you down this biomimetic route? [00:14:40]

Amber Aplin: I did lots of training, actually. So I have done the Tipton Restorative Long course. [00:14:45] Um, I’ve done Linda Greenwald tooth whitening. Um, I stayed away [00:14:50] from ortho, actually, to be honest, I didn’t fancy ortho or cosmetic anyway. Um, [00:14:55] yeah, I’ve done loads of training. Every. I’d always train all the time. Even did [00:15:00] a postgraduate Edinburgh um, diploma in private primary [00:15:05] dental care at the time. And that was a two year diploma. Um, I just fell upon [00:15:10] the course actually. The aliments. Who are these two Americans, father and son, who are the founders of it, really? [00:15:15] They came across to Scotland, to Glasgow for a two day course, and my work colleague [00:15:20] and friend Kira went to the course first. We’re doing two back to back courses. And Amber, you’ve [00:15:25] just got to go on this. It’s mind blowing. I said, okay, yeah, I was going to go anyway, but I wasn’t [00:15:30] really convinced because I thought I knew a lot. I thought I was great. And, [00:15:35] um, we just don’t know what you don’t know, you know? And this is me being very experienced and [00:15:40] working in private practice for about ten, 12 years, and, um, went in this two day course and [00:15:45] I literally straight away I was this is incredible, phenomenal learning [00:15:50] from this course.

Payman Langroudi: Can you think of a couple of things from that course that were the kind of unlocks [00:15:55] that made you think, shit, why have I been doing it this way?

Amber Aplin: I’ve been doing it wrong all my life.

Payman Langroudi: What kind of things [00:16:00] are we talking?

Amber Aplin: So one of the main things, one thing straight away, was they said, okay, just raise your [00:16:05] hands in this room. Who? Um. Which substrate bonds better? Enamel [00:16:10] or dentine? Enamel, of course. You know, it’s dentine and [00:16:15] dentine was the answer. And then they went into why. And then they proved it through the evidence and, and [00:16:20] um, dentine is a much stronger bond, but it takes longer to get [00:16:25] there. Oh yeah. So enamel bonds really quickly, easily. Anyone can bond to [00:16:30] enamel and it’s very predictable. Um, but denting it [00:16:35] takes time for that bond to mature. So it takes five minutes, actually. So once [00:16:40] you do the adhesive layers, you’ve got to wait five minutes before the, [00:16:45] the composites kind of layering and things for restorations. Um, but more than that, [00:16:50] it’s about the C factor and the cavity shape. That’s a big influence. Um, [00:16:55] so the bonds have to be greater than the stresses for the shrinkage [00:17:00] of the composite. Um, so C factor is really influential and [00:17:05] so is the occlusion as well.

Payman Langroudi: Do you believe in putting fibres in to affect that.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Is [00:17:10] that a real thing.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Yeah. Um so dentine bonds differently. Different parts of dentine. [00:17:15] So you’ve got superficial dentine which is just near the um enamel that bonds really, [00:17:20] really. Well, um, you have to make sure it’s obviously caries free as well. [00:17:25] So even things like they showed a photo of a tooth that looked crystal [00:17:30] clear of any caries. And then they said, well, who can [00:17:35] spot the caries here? And they picked me because I was one of the oldest on the course. I said, well, you can’t actually tell [00:17:40] really, um, where it is. That’s that’s right. You know, but they put the caries dye on and [00:17:45] it just showed caries everywhere, you know, and they did a series of photos, about ten [00:17:50] lots of photos where they cleaned the caries away and dried it, retested it with caries dye [00:17:55] again and then revealed more caries. And they kept doing this, you know, um, this [00:18:00] kind of system and protocol until it was caries free. Because you can’t spot [00:18:05] it, you can’t feel it. It’s very objective. Sorry. It’s very subjective, you know. Yeah. [00:18:10] Um, each clinician will find caries differently and take more or less away than anybody else. [00:18:15] But if you leave any caries there, it’s just going to fail, you know? And or at least.

Payman Langroudi: The bond [00:18:20] strength is going to be less secondary. Are you talking about secondary caries?

Amber Aplin: Secondary caries. It’s bond [00:18:25] strength. It’s the restoration not bonding therefore leading to gaps forming underneath and [00:18:30] sensitivity afterwards.

Payman Langroudi: So the old thing people used to say about sort of affected dentine and just with your [00:18:35] probe, sort of that’s that’s not good enough.

Amber Aplin: Not good enough. I mean it’s a real thing affected and [00:18:40] infected dentine. Um, but I don’t think you can feel with certainty with [00:18:45] a probe.

Payman Langroudi: It’s so interesting. I mean, there are other areas that look absolutely clear, [00:18:50] but there is, there are there is caries there.

Amber Aplin: I mean, I’ve got so many photographs and I keep meaning [00:18:55] to publish more photos, you know, I need to do more of that. Yeah. And, um, I do a photo of a cavity [00:19:00] I think is crystal clear, and I do a photo. And then I put the caries [00:19:05] dye on, and it’s just like caries everywhere. And it’s like, oh, it’s crazy.

Payman Langroudi: What [00:19:10] is caries detection? Do you know?

Amber Aplin: I mean, I use their products for cura or cura [00:19:15] products and it’s a pink dye. Um, it actually just detects [00:19:20] the, um, bacterial By-Products, not the actual bacteria themselves. [00:19:25] So, um, yeah, it just tested the [00:19:30] products themselves and it just clings on to them. It’s kind of the die itself. Well, you [00:19:35] wash, you wash it away, and then any remaining dye is where the caries is. So the [00:19:40] red dye is the infected and the the pink is the affected. Mhm. So [00:19:45] you have to make sure that the peripheral area is completely 100% clear of [00:19:50] caries and cracks. And then you know the bond is going to be phenomenal in the restoration. [00:19:55]

Payman Langroudi: So if I’ve got a cracked like if I’ve got a patient with [00:20:00] an amalgam and a crack on that tooth. Do you chase that [00:20:05] crack until it’s no longer there every time? Or are there some [00:20:10] cracks that are good cracks that you can leave? How can you tell which is which?

Amber Aplin: There’s both actually. So in [00:20:15] that peripheral 2 to 3mm, you want to try and create the 100% [00:20:20] clear peripheral seal around the whole tooth so that the bond is going to be phenomenal around [00:20:25] that area. You have to leave, um, cracks and caries, which are [00:20:30] over the pulp. Yeah, but you can measure that. Measure it. Measure it from the height of the [00:20:35] the tooth.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Amber Aplin: Or the adjacent tooth. It’s five millimetres down is where the pulp horns [00:20:40] are.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Amber Aplin: And follow the inclines of the tooth to, to, um, ensure [00:20:45] you’ve got the most caries and cracks away. So in that peripheral area, you [00:20:50] have to chase cracks right down to, to reach the bottom of them so you can get 11 12 [00:20:55] millimetre, um, channels almost where the cracks are. You don’t take [00:21:00] the enamel away from the outside, though, so you’re going down the very safe zone, which between [00:21:05] the kind of between the, the external root of the tooth and down between [00:21:10] where the, um, the pulp is. Yeah. So you get a real safe zone. You can, um, uh, [00:21:15] work to find the, the crack end point, but then you leave it [00:21:20] over the pulp area because you don’t want to expose.

Payman Langroudi: And then I mean, the number. I [00:21:25] mean, I haven’t done that for 12, 13 years now, but the number of teeth that have [00:21:30] cracks adjacent to amalgams are in the distal.

Amber Aplin: Always. [00:21:35]

Payman Langroudi: Or one of the cusps you can see it’s just cracked. So you are saying we have to kind of, [00:21:40] you know, you have to chase that crack down. Yeah.

Amber Aplin: Otherwise it’ll progress. Otherwise. [00:21:45] I mean, if if you’re concerned about perforating, if [00:21:50] you really think, oh, I just can’t go any further, um, you know, without risking perforating, [00:21:55] which is going to be a worst case scenario, you can you would leave it, you know, just to [00:22:00] kind of experience and, and the skills you’ve got. But then [00:22:05] you can mitigate that with various ways to restore the tooth afterwards. You can um.

Payman Langroudi: But [00:22:10] is your, is your, is your sense that a lot of dentists are not addressing cracks? I certainly [00:22:15] wasn’t when I was, when I was an associate, I certainly wasn’t addressing every crack [00:22:20] I was. I was removing caries.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:25] I mean, um, before this course, I wouldn’t know how. I mean, I did this [00:22:30] course first, the two day course, then I went to do the year long mastership, which is 135 [00:22:35] articles and, and, and, you.

Payman Langroudi: Know, where’s.

Amber Aplin: That lectures. It’s online lectures. And [00:22:40] then I went over to Utah as well, to work with Davey and his clinic for a few days. [00:22:45] Oh.

Payman Langroudi: What was it.

Amber Aplin: Like? Phenomenal. Just seeing the way he worked and and how, [00:22:50] um, his clinic ran and just he just does his day, day in, day out. This is what I love [00:22:55] doing as well. So over the over the time, I have learned how to [00:23:00] manage cracks in the best way. But, um, before that, I would have no idea. And if [00:23:05] a patient came in with pain on biting, I would know it’s a crack or cracked tooth syndrome, but I would never [00:23:10] know how to sort it. And, um, but now it’s so wonderful to treat [00:23:15] things predictably. I mean, you can diagnose it better and earlier [00:23:20] you didn’t want to wait till they become painful. You want to diagnose them before they show symptoms. [00:23:25] They don’t show any signs on x rays. Even so, a lot of my day to day job is, um, [00:23:30] explaining to patients of these high risk teeth, high risk of fracture, high risk of secondary care [00:23:35] like decay. Um, without. But I say, I know how you feel. You [00:23:40] know, I know you’ve got no pain and there’s no sign on the x ray, but there’s a really high risk, and [00:23:45] I can guarantee there’s a crack there. Um, so I’d recommend be treated it now [00:23:50] rather than wait. But it’s up to you and some patients, most of them actually do [00:23:55] at least one. And we pick the highest risk via various measurements of all the teeth [00:24:00] and where the occlusion is the heaviest. And then once they’ve had one done [00:24:05] and they’ve seen the photographs of their cracks and how bad it was and, and the decay there, they’ll [00:24:10] say, well, what’s next? You know, where’s the next tooth to restore? That’s my kind of [00:24:15] treatment comes from is just doing one onlay or layer overlay. Every now and again [00:24:20] on the same page.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know why. Um. Biomimetic dentists seem the most passionate. [00:24:25] Why is that? Um, but but that passion [00:24:30] itself comes through to a patient. Yeah. And and, [00:24:35] you know, in the end, dentistry is a game of trust in the end. [00:24:40] Yeah. You know that you could be the best in the world if people don’t trust you. And [00:24:45] of course, that could be that could be that could be used in a dark way, too, I guess. But but let’s stick to the normal. [00:24:50] You know, if people don’t trust you, you’re not going to be able to help them. And [00:24:55] that trust, of course, comes from, you know, doing what you say you’re going to do and all that. But [00:25:00] the passion. And why do you think biomimetic dentistry inspires passion [00:25:05] more than other kinds of dentistry? Why are they so happy? Biomimetic [00:25:10] dentists.

Amber Aplin: Are.

Payman Langroudi: What do you think it is?

Amber Aplin: I for me, um, I know it’s because [00:25:15] the it’s so predictable. It’s knowledge based, it’s evidence based. [00:25:20] So everything we say to patients is based on evidence and we know it and we can guarantee [00:25:25] treatments. The treatments themselves are, um, rewarding because [00:25:30] it’s slow, takes time. Relaxing rubber dam, you know, and, um, [00:25:35] and then the patient walks away, say this is going to be no bother at all. It’s not going to cause [00:25:40] any pain afterwards. There’s no need to do a provisional or temporary restoration afterwards. [00:25:45] If onlays, you can walk away pain free and we can sleep at night, [00:25:50] you know, and it works every single time you can imagine. You know, [00:25:55] it’s. That’s why.

Payman Langroudi: I guess. I guess it’s also, you know, it’s the bread and butter that we were [00:26:00] taught, you know, it’s it’s what every dentist does every day, but totally different [00:26:05] to, to to that. I mean, it’s still, you know, the day to day of dentistry.

Amber Aplin: It should [00:26:10] be in university. It should be taught at uni. Yeah. And it’s not.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, it’s a lot more of it than [00:26:15] than there was in our. I suspect we’re a similar vintage Dental [00:26:20] school wise, but there’s a lot more. But it’s not part of the course. What’s what’s happening [00:26:25] now is the students getting together and inviting lecturers themselves. Um, a lot [00:26:30] of that happening. Um, but yeah, I mean, I tear whatever hair I had out, [00:26:35] um, you know, uh, teeth whitening. Still not taught at dental school. Not taught, [00:26:40] you know.

Amber Aplin: Is that because it’s, um, government funded and it’s NHS kind of [00:26:45] directed?

Payman Langroudi: I think I think it’s, uh. I mean, you know, we’re not the [00:26:50] universities aren’t supposed to put out NHS dentists, they’re supposed to put out dentists, [00:26:55] you know, isn’t it doesn’t.

Amber Aplin: Feel like that.

Payman Langroudi: But it must be that, right? I mean, you [00:27:00] can’t you can’t have the university put out an NHS dentist because every year the NHS changes, [00:27:05] the university has to change, you know, as it gets, as it, as it erodes. Universities have to erode their [00:27:10] education. Yeah. Um, then, you know, dentistry density has to be a profession that [00:27:15] the university can put out. And we’re trying to be, you know, world class in the UK, for instance. Right. [00:27:20] But what I’m saying about bleaching, I think it’s historical. We’re bleaching. It was illegal until [00:27:25] 2012. Okay. But it’s interesting to see how slowly cogs move [00:27:30] that 13 years later, now that it’s legal and it’s one of [00:27:35] the most asked for procedures, the most it’s the safest thing. All the 80% [00:27:40] of the population would like a white spot. All those things. Yeah. Still hasn’t gone into any of the Dental courses [00:27:45] now. Hell, you know, I should do something about it. I should get together with all the other whitening companies [00:27:50] and do something about it and all that. But to me, it shows how slowly dental [00:27:55] education moves. You know, from my little world. I can see that part. Yeah. So [00:28:00] how long will it be before they teach immediate dentine sealing or something? They probably [00:28:05] do. Right. No, I would hope so.

Amber Aplin: I’d hope so. You know, I’ve got real [00:28:10] aspirations to try and help educate people and help them. Because I just know that once [00:28:15] you know these techniques and protocols, it’s just a game changer. You know, there’s no more kind of uncertainty [00:28:20] in your and it helps patients. You know, that’s the biggest thing we’re all here for is patient care. And [00:28:25] if we can give them composite restorations that last for decades, which is like unreal [00:28:30] or online overlays, again the bio based that we do over the tooth is permanent. [00:28:35] And that’s just amazing really. Um, is. [00:28:40]

Payman Langroudi: That what the the ideas? You mean.

Amber Aplin: The ideas? And a few [00:28:45] more layers on top of that, which is the dentine replacement? That’s kind of the the kind [00:28:50] of I tell patients, it’s the kind of shield for your tooth and that’s permanent. So that prevent any decay [00:28:55] leaking in or cracks forming or anything like that. So it’ll keep the tooth protected for life. [00:29:00] The top structure is designed to fail the onlay overlay, you know, after [00:29:05] decades, couple of decades is the evidence for that because you don’t want it [00:29:10] to, well, bonded because you don’t want to lead to a catastrophic failure. You want to have a fail safe somewhere [00:29:15] in the event of, you know, trauma or heavy occlusion or something. But the bio [00:29:20] basis is there for for life, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Is that is that controversial or [00:29:25] is that not?

Amber Aplin: I think so, I think so because it’s controversial. No, it’s not controversial. No, it’s not evidence [00:29:30] based. Evidence based.

Payman Langroudi: But people haven’t been doing it long enough to to know the [00:29:35] answer to that question.

Amber Aplin: They have I mean, the elements, um, they have restorations of [00:29:40] 26 years and counting. Yeah. So we I’m basing on their [00:29:45] evidence because this is what we’ve learned from and their protocols. So I [00:29:50] feel like we can transfer those that longevity into our practice. Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. [00:29:55] So I want to go on to a couple of other things. You know teeth that before [00:30:00] you might have not been able to restore. And now you feel like you can.

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like [00:30:05] what are the limits of that in your I mean Let’s call it hero periodontics. [00:30:10]

Amber Aplin: Yeah, I like a challenge, actually.

Payman Langroudi: Subgingival [00:30:15] sort of crestal bone level. The whole matrixing thing. Yeah. Where did you learn that? Was [00:30:20] that the.

Amber Aplin: Same? You know, I think you’ve got to be a little bit if you want to push the boundaries [00:30:25] a little bit. A bit bold. I’ve been quite, quite bold as long as patients are on board. If [00:30:30] a patient tells me they’re really keen to save a tooth, and I say to them, well, this one here, [00:30:35] I won’t be able to guarantee, you know, just as long as you’re honest with patients and say, this is a bit of, um, this [00:30:40] is really borderline restorable, but we’ll try our best. And, um, the [00:30:45] actual bonding is phenomenal, but it’s just as you say, it’s if it’s really deep subgingival near [00:30:50] where the bone is. But as long as you can get that, um, copper, um, [00:30:55] to get right down next to the PDL and you get [00:31:00] a really great seal, then it’s going to bond. So, um, yeah, [00:31:05] Somebody, I’ll say no. You know, if it’s, for example, gross [00:31:10] carries through half the tooth and the roots almost kind of chopped away through the caries then. [00:31:15] No, you know, but, um, that’s it.

Payman Langroudi: That’s [00:31:20] the extent of it. Everything else I’ll save. Yeah. Has there been a situation where [00:31:25] you’ve got it wrong?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Actually, recently, actually, um, one [00:31:30] thing we we can’t do obviously, is reverse engineer. If there’s a bacterial load in, [00:31:35] in the pulp that’s going to cause an abscess or cause the pulp to go non-vital. So [00:31:40] we can’t always tell. So if a tooth’s already symptomatic. Yeah. Um, and the caries [00:31:45] is already really close to the pulp and already deep, deep cracks there. Um, I’ll tell the [00:31:50] patient, um, there’s a high risk of needing root canal here, you know, but, um, [00:31:55] in this case, I didn’t really say it. That probably clearly maybe didn’t understand what I was saying. [00:32:00] Um, and a year later, and but it was a really crazy difficult one. And deep, deep crack [00:32:05] and everything. And I’ve got photographs as well. I always photograph every single stage. Went back and looked [00:32:10] at the photographs and it was pretty, pretty deep and difficult. Um, and then [00:32:15] he developed a big abscess literally about two weeks ago. We X-rayed it and thought, are huge abscess there. [00:32:20] And he was really cross. I’ve done about 4 or 5 onlays on this patient. So it’s a really [00:32:25] great patient, great rapport, really trusting you, said Amber. You told me this is a permanent [00:32:30] seal. You told me that it would never lead to leakage or, um, any more [00:32:35] decay or anything, or it’ll prevent the need for needing root canals. Um, you [00:32:40] know, but here we are a year later, there’s a big abscess needing root canal for £1,200. [00:32:45] Now, why should I pay for that? So I spent a bit of time and he wouldn’t accept a phone call [00:32:50] either. I was like, oh, I’d rather phone you about it rather than have to write to you. So [00:32:55] I wrote him a letter, a couple letters, and, um, but I but he’s [00:33:00] fine now. He understood. Now, you know, once the bacteria load is [00:33:05] really, um, too great in the tooth and the tooth can’t recover, then it’s going [00:33:10] to form an abscess. And we can’t help that.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got an amazing idea. Yeah, [00:33:15] like you seem so confident. Yeah, yeah. Just give [00:33:20] a lifetime guarantee. Charge more.

Amber Aplin: I would.

Payman Langroudi: Charge more.

Amber Aplin: I want to do that. I do [00:33:25] not.

Payman Langroudi: Charge more based on the lifetime guarantee.

Amber Aplin: A big practice. [00:33:30] So I believe we’ve got to do the same thing in practice. Yeah. I can’t do something different [00:33:35] to my. Well, you can, my colleagues.

Payman Langroudi: You can, you can, you can offer like. I mean, I’m not saying you have to. You’re right. [00:33:40] It’s absolutely right. If everyone’s doing it because it’s a brand thing then. But but you know what [00:33:45] the problem I see with it is if you come to sell this practice, someone then [00:33:50] has to take on that lifetime guarantee. And that that issue [00:33:55] is is the weirdness of it. But but I think like, you know, if you’re [00:34:00] hand on heart, think you are, you know, doing work that’s going to last 30 [00:34:05] years then and you’re telling patients that anyway [00:34:10] anyway, it’s causing this issue. I know it doesn’t happen often that you [00:34:15] get this issue, but that’s also part of the point of it. You’re not going to have not many people are going [00:34:20] to invoke their lifetime guarantee. And yet you can charge, let’s say, [00:34:25] one and a half times the price because of the lifetime guarantee. [00:34:30] Yeah. So any time it is invoked, it’s already paid for anyway by all those one and a half times that people [00:34:35] have paid. Yeah. I think it’s such an interesting idea. No, honestly.

Amber Aplin: This is what I want to do. And you’ve literally. [00:34:40]

Payman Langroudi: Are you going to do this?

Amber Aplin: No, I want to do this. I have this dream one day in [00:34:45] the future, um, a long time away of opening a squat somewhere and doing [00:34:50] that on my own. Because you can’t do it in a big practice. I don’t believe that our brand is so strong, and, [00:34:55] um, my colleagues are all doing the same thing. They’ve all done the year long mastership. [00:35:00] They’re all doing the same training all the same, because patients have to have the same experience no matter who they see. [00:35:05] So there’s four dentists there and three therapists. We all do the same protocols [00:35:10] for our restorations. So we’ve got to charge the same [00:35:15] therapists all charge the same for the for our treatments. Really? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Would [00:35:20] you tell the patient about the therapist?

Amber Aplin: In what way?

Payman Langroudi: About the fact [00:35:25] that they’re not a dentist.

Amber Aplin: I mean, they’re trained [00:35:30] to do, um, work within their scope. So the work they do, they’re the same training [00:35:35] level as is the work that we is. Is us really? Yeah. So that we tell them. [00:35:40] Yeah. Because they are.

Payman Langroudi: But is that what you say to the patient? Yeah. That this isn’t a dentist, but [00:35:45] the work they’re going to do is going to be at the same level as the dentist.

Amber Aplin: So do you mean if they do some treatment [00:35:50] on a patient? Yeah. Like a restoration or the.

Payman Langroudi: Patient has to know or don’t they? [00:35:55]

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So the patient has to know. Yeah. So when you tell them, what did you tell them?

Amber Aplin: Well, our [00:36:00] patients actually therapists first in our practice. So it’s therapist led care. So our therapists [00:36:05] do the private check-ups and the hygiene. And they then diagnose [00:36:10] treatments. They recommend the treatment plan. And then if the [00:36:15] treatment within their scope, they will do it themselves or at least offer the patient [00:36:20] they can do it themselves or they can refer to their dentist to do it. Yeah. Um, and [00:36:25] they refer things out with their scope to us to do so. So that question doesn’t [00:36:30] really come up because they’ve already diagnosed the problem. They’ve done the scan, the x rays, the photos [00:36:35] they’ve discussed with the patient about the secondary caries or the risk of cracks. They’ve [00:36:40] planned to do a composite restoration, for example. Um, and they’ll just [00:36:45] book it in with themselves. And the patients know their therapists, they know they’ve got the training, the skills.

Payman Langroudi: Has [00:36:50] it ever come up as an issue?

Amber Aplin: Um, [00:36:55] not that I’m aware of. When we first did the conversion, there was a handful of patients [00:37:00] that questioned it. You know, we’ve been seeing you for years, Amber. And why am I seeing a therapist now? Um, [00:37:05] and really, the truth of the matter is, I mean, we know as [00:37:10] dentists. Certainly for me, anyway, therapists are far better at the preventative [00:37:15] side of things. The far better at their prevention experts. [00:37:20]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. That’s right.

Amber Aplin: And our patients are all long standing kind of plan members as [00:37:25] well. Um, with generally good, stable dental health. So [00:37:30] our therapists are the experts in prevention.

Payman Langroudi: Yes.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. [00:37:35] So they see a therapist for that reason. Um, and they actually have a better experience [00:37:40] in my mind. Um, in terms of their check-up, their [00:37:45] plan member Check-up would be a longer appointment. They’re in one place for 45 minutes. They [00:37:50] have an Itero scan. They get to see their teeth, Photographs, [00:37:55] x rays, you know, have pearl, you know, communication tools and everything. So can [00:38:00] you imagine before that doing a 15 minute check-up with a dentist, then straight to a half an hour hygiene [00:38:05] treatment to now it’s a 45 minute double appointment like joint appointment [00:38:10] for it’s longer in the chair because you’re not having to walk, change surgeries, wait [00:38:15] five minutes in between, you know. Yeah, yeah. You know, and you’re doubling the conversation. You’re doubling the [00:38:20] the oral cancer screening. You’re doubling the kind of rapport building. So it’s all done in [00:38:25] one long appointment. It’s more relaxed, more tech, more information, more communication. And [00:38:30] for me, um, it’s certainly better conversions compared to us [00:38:35] dentists compared to the previous year.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re saying the therapist charges [00:38:40] exactly the same as the dentist, and you’re saying the standard of the work is as good as the dentist? [00:38:45]

Amber Aplin: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: And so what’s the difference? So you pay the therapist less than you pay the dentist. [00:38:50]

Amber Aplin: Our therapists are all employed. Salaried salaried.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. [00:38:55] So that’s the arbitrage from the practice perspective.

Amber Aplin: I mean, it’s not really about the money although [00:39:00] it’s about it’s about patient care. But but but the [00:39:05] business is more challenging as we go on. You know it’s getting more and more difficult to make it work. Yeah. [00:39:10] So it was a patient care thing and also a, um, [00:39:15] a business thing as well at the same time. But for business it’s phenomenal. For business. Phenomenal. Yeah. [00:39:20] Because we’ve got more time in our diaries for these high value treatments for dentists [00:39:25] and less time for these check-ups and things.

Payman Langroudi: And I’m super interested in it. I’m super interested [00:39:30] in a therapist led, private quality practice. I haven’t [00:39:35] really come across it. I have I’ve I’ve come across therapy. You know, we do a composite bonding, [00:39:40] uh, anterior composite course and we get therapists on that course. And their [00:39:45] work is better than most of the dentists. We used to give a prize out. Yeah, and the therapist would win it [00:39:50] a lot of the time. Yeah, although I thought maybe it’s self-selecting. You know, the kind of the kind of therapist [00:39:55] who’s going to pay me £1,000 to come on a composite course might be the real someone who [00:40:00] really wants to do. Well, maybe. Maybe it’s that. But. But when you’re teaching a new skill, [00:40:05] whether it’s a dentist or a therapist, it doesn’t mean the dentist is going to learn [00:40:10] it any quicker than the in fact, you know, there’s no there’s no reason to assume that, um, [00:40:15] but you would have thought in a private practice setting, patients [00:40:20] would object and you’ve kind of gotten over that.

Amber Aplin: I think it’s about communication [00:40:25] and trust. As you say, communication is key. We spent a long time writing the letter [00:40:30] to our patients, explaining about the change, the transformation [00:40:35] and the change in their care. So, um, I think the letter was the key thing, really. [00:40:40] And also before that, we were drip feeding it through our newsletters to patients about the how [00:40:45] great therapists are doing, you know, doing the, um, restorative photographs on our, um, [00:40:50] on our social media channels, just highlighting how [00:40:55] great therapists are at the practice, what therapists are doing currently, what therapists can do. Um, [00:41:00] just before the letter went out, we did a lot of that in the months preceding the kind of change just [00:41:05] help educate patients about what therapists could do, um, and what our therapists could do, because ours are [00:41:10] really great. You know, you’ve got to have therapists that really want to grow, want to learn.

Payman Langroudi: Of course. [00:41:15]

Amber Aplin: And love their job. You know, that’s a big thing, I think, as well. Like anyone, I suppose [00:41:20] any clinician. Yeah. Um, so yeah, the letter was important. So a lovely [00:41:25] letter. Two two things. One was a intro which is bullet points. So people who [00:41:30] prefer just a quick bit of info, they’ve got the knowledge that information there. Yeah. Accompanied with [00:41:35] a booklet that was beautifully branded glossy about with [00:41:40] more information about therapists and what they could do, examples of their treatments, testimonials and just [00:41:45] more information about how it’s going to be better for the patients moving [00:41:50] forward. Yeah, it worked great. We on the weekend, we, um, [00:41:55] we did the the letters went out about November, um, [00:42:00] 24 last year. Um, and the Monday afterwards, we [00:42:05] had all the phones manned, more staff in to cover any queries, you know, for reception phones [00:42:10] and the phone didn’t ring. I was like, what’s going on? It [00:42:15] was so weird. We were just, oh, right, this is good. [00:42:20] Did my list first rolled it out of my list first because [00:42:25] you have to trial it. Trial it because even though we thought we had everything right, you never know [00:42:30] till you actually trial it. Yeah. Um, and it was really successful. So we had a plan [00:42:35] to do everyone else kind of the year later, really. But it was so great. We just all [00:42:40] everyone done now. So the rest of the team were converted in [00:42:45] May of that same year.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, was this your own idea?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. This [00:42:50] idea actually, a long time ago, like I thought this this is the way to go. They [00:42:55] can do all this in their scope. Yeah, but at the time I thought, oh, it’s just massive, you know, it’s [00:43:00] huge change. And I wasn’t really confident with my team back then. And you could have a team who’s on board [00:43:05] with your vision I think before you can do that. And then I wanted to do it about three years ago, but [00:43:10] then I had two therapists on mat leave at the same time, so it wasn’t the best time either. So when [00:43:15] they both came from back from mat leave, um, it was the right time. Empty diaries, you know, and [00:43:20] perfect time to implement it. I need to push though I wasn’t I [00:43:25] knew, I knew it was right in my heart. But, um, actually I was working with, um, you know, Mike Hesketh at [00:43:30] the time, he said, I said to him when he first met me the very first day, this is I know [00:43:35] this is what we should do, Mike. I know this is the way we should go. He said, just do it. I was like, what? [00:43:40] Do it. So he gave me the nudge.

Payman Langroudi: To have him on. He’s been [00:43:45] behind a few of the few of the interesting practices I’ve come across now. Yeah, he’s [00:43:50] having you introduce me to him. Yeah.

Amber Aplin: He’s phenomenal. I must say, because we’re already doing great. [00:43:55] I must say the practice was already brilliant because the team are phenomenal. Um, so when he came, he was [00:44:00] like a great place here. And I had no social media at the time. Hardly. And he said, you’ve got to [00:44:05] shout about what you do here. And and it’s not really me. I’m quite quiet. I like to keep my [00:44:10] head down and. But you can’t really help people or patients or you can’t really recruit. I [00:44:15] don’t think if people.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t, staff.

Amber Aplin: Don’t know about you. So he encouraged me to join [00:44:20] LinkedIn and, and do more promotion about the practice and what we [00:44:25] do and all that. So he that’s, that’s that’s what his influence was for me and confidence that [00:44:30] we’re doing great as well, because you don’t really feel confident if you’re working in your own practice with your blinkers [00:44:35] on, you don’t really see the bigger picture.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Are you aware of others running something [00:44:40] like this?

Amber Aplin: Therapist led care.

Payman Langroudi: Private care?

Amber Aplin: No. No.

Payman Langroudi: So is that. [00:44:45]

Amber Aplin: I’m happy to.

Payman Langroudi: I’d love to run and all that. Is it. Is it based [00:44:50] on training people on that as well? Was it just the clinical skills?

Amber Aplin: I believe [00:44:55] it goes hand in hand actually. Yeah. So it’s been quite serendipitous how it’s all worked out [00:45:00] and didn’t know it would come together so well at the time. Yeah. So it’s two kind of parallel [00:45:05] journeys, I suppose. Or um, you know, uh, ways of changing [00:45:10] the practice. So, um, yeah, both kind of same in parallel. I [00:45:15] think the biggest thing about biomimetics and what we now teach directly from [00:45:20] what the animals taught me and all the evidence is how to diagnose things [00:45:25] predictably. So there’s four red flags for a tooth if it’s high risk [00:45:30] of fracture and things. So our therapist can measure the width of a [00:45:35] filling and can measure the width of a cusp, they can measure the depth of the filling. Look at the bite on the [00:45:40] itero scan and they tell a patient that’s a high risk tooth. It’s [00:45:45] black and white. It’s stuff you can hang your coat on. That’s what you need for therapists and clinicians [00:45:50] to plan treatment, you know. So I [00:45:55] think without having that, those kind of black and white criteria about what to refer to [00:46:00] the dentist and things, it would be very difficult for anyone to know which would benefit from an [00:46:05] onlay or a large composite. So that’s been a really great thing as the diagnostic, [00:46:10] um, element to that.

Payman Langroudi: And if it’s a large composite, generally the therapist [00:46:15] is doing it themselves.

Amber Aplin: We to be honest, we’re quite up to capacity with therapists now. Already [00:46:20] we’re looking for another a fourth therapist. So their books are pretty full with these longer um, [00:46:25] check-ups stroke hygiene appointments. They, they do do some treatments. They do all of our kids [00:46:30] dentistry as well. So they haven’t got a lot of scope for these treatments.

Payman Langroudi: Oh. So mainly [00:46:35] dentists are doing at the moment.

Amber Aplin: We’re doing a lot of stuff therapists could be doing. They will be doing some [00:46:40] composite restorations for sure. Um, I don’t think any of us do big composites anyway. [00:46:45] We if it’s kind of, um, I would say a third or half would be almost only [00:46:50] territory. So it’s either going to be a if it’s going to be a small amalgam, [00:46:55] it’s going to be a composite, a small class two or something.

Payman Langroudi: Between a direct only.

Amber Aplin: Um, [00:47:00] indirect, indirect indirect. So really, unless it’s obviously [00:47:05] a small amalgam you’re replacing, it’s going to be an onlay almost all the times because [00:47:10] our patients are older demographic, they’re all kind of 60 ish. Average age [00:47:15] all got big amalgams with cracks and things. So there’s it’s almost [00:47:20] always on those overlays anyway I would say.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. I understood you were doing [00:47:25] huge composites.

Amber Aplin: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: Well there [00:47:30] is.

Amber Aplin: My skill set is not there. I mean.

Payman Langroudi: There’s quite a lot of people doing those.

Amber Aplin: Things. Yeah, some people are doing [00:47:35] a lot of that. I think it’s where your skill sets lie and and really, um, I [00:47:40] prefer doing it on layers and overlays. A great lab works really well for us.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:47:45] so have you moved it on from quadrant to full mouth for yourself?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. [00:47:50]

Payman Langroudi: Are you doing full mouth rehabs and things?

Amber Aplin: I am, I am doing them. I don’t love [00:47:55] doing those. Um, but we have got a lot of patients with tooth wear. Yeah. So I have done that training [00:48:00] with Andy Chandra on the, the training that he’s learned [00:48:05] about. So I do use the Coy’s, um, protocols for some cases, [00:48:10] but only if it’s really great patients. If it’s a tricky patient, I’ll not be going near it because I [00:48:15] don’t do that many cases.

Payman Langroudi: And what else do you do? Do you do implants? Surgery? [00:48:20]

Amber Aplin: I have an implant dentist that comes along once a week. So we restore implants for [00:48:25] him. Um hum. Yeah. Surgicals not me.

Payman Langroudi: Not, you.

Amber Aplin: Know, no.

Payman Langroudi: Endo. [00:48:30]

Amber Aplin: Not me. I’ve got, um, I’ve got Wil Donovan, who does our endodontics. Yeah, [00:48:35] he He’s on a specialist pathway in London right now. So he’s finishing the Eastman um, [00:48:40] degree just next year. So he’s working one day, two days [00:48:45] a month right now with us on Saturdays, and he’ll work with us one day a week when he finishes [00:48:50] his degree. So yeah, he’s great. So he didn’t do any I don’t do any endo. I didn’t do [00:48:55] any ortho. No.

Payman Langroudi: I do kind of like a specialist, I do biomimetics. [00:49:00]

Amber Aplin: I do my therapist led care is so great because each clinician can [00:49:05] choose what they want it should look like for them and what where their passions lie. So [00:49:10] my day is full of probably three on laser overlays in one day, maybe [00:49:15] an implant restoration. And that’s about it, really. [00:49:20] I refer my extractions, the difficult ones. Sorry to my colleague who loves doing difficult extractions. [00:49:25] I don’t do any dentures because I’ve got two colleagues who like doing dentures. Just [00:49:30] refer sideways, you know, if you don’t like doing something and then the patients get the best. [00:49:35]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I took a break when we started the company. I took a five year break. Then, [00:49:40] um, I came back my my wife, when she got pregnant, I [00:49:45] came back and did some dentistry. And once I’d had the break, I thought if I did dentistry, [00:49:50] I’d just stick to the things I’m really good at and refer everything else. Um, [00:49:55] and even though obviously it’s different because financially it makes sense for you to [00:50:00] refer to your colleagues in your own practice. Whereas for me, I was losing money by doing that, but [00:50:05] I didn’t care about the money at all from dentistry because I was so focussed on this. So, [00:50:10] so I was just doing dentistry to do dentistry, you know, you define yourself as something. Yeah. [00:50:15] Um, and it is a kind of it is a happy life. It is a happy life because it’s, it’s two, [00:50:20] two different things. One, you’re doing the thing you love. Um, and so [00:50:25] that’s great. And you’re not doing the bits you don’t love. But two for everything else the patients getting [00:50:30] an absolute expert, It, you know. And so, you know, it’s brilliant [00:50:35] because the patients getting the best outcome and you’re getting the best outcome if you’re doing the things you love [00:50:40] only. Yeah, it’s a great way to live. And especially in your situation where you [00:50:45] pass it on sideways to your own associate. Yeah. So the practice is still thriving, [00:50:50] that that treatment isn’t lost or whatever, you know, as you think of if you’re an associate, you [00:50:55] know, um, it’s an interesting way to live. I like that.

Amber Aplin: I love it, honestly. In the corridor [00:51:00] we pass each other. I’m always smiling, always beaming. It’s a happy place, is it? Everyone’s just joyous [00:51:05] because we’re just. Everyone’s just working to their passions and their best skills, you know? [00:51:10] And I will take on difficult patients for my colleagues. You know, I guess being associates, you don’t have to treat [00:51:15] anybody or everybody. Sorry. So patients that they might find difficult, I’ll [00:51:20] just take them on and happy to do so I don’t mind. I quite enjoy a challenge sometimes. I love the [00:51:25] challenge of someone being quite demanding or difficult. Then I’ll kind of [00:51:30] assess whether or not they’re treatable in the practice or not, whether they’re for the practice, or whether they should be kind [00:51:35] of asked to go somewhere else. Moved on, moved on. But I love getting to know people [00:51:40] and seeing if I can work with them. It’s quite nice to succeed at that. If if, you know, [00:51:45] perhaps they’re nervous or something else, but, um, it’s quite nice to do [00:51:50] that.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve been to a lot of practices, right. I must have been to at least a thousand practices. [00:51:55] And you sometimes walk in and immediately [00:52:00] the, the receptionist sort of comes and opens the [00:52:05] door for you and says, Doctor Langroudi, we’ve been expecting you. Um, and then you hear [00:52:10] laughter coming out of a surgery, and then a nurse is going to the staff [00:52:15] room and says, hi, incidentally, you know, says hi and notices you and, and [00:52:20] and makes a joke and it’s a happy situation. Yeah. And then sometimes obviously the complete opposite. [00:52:25] Yeah. Stress. Um, it’s almost like an air of you [00:52:30] must have worked in a practice like this as well, right? An era of er of, um. When, when [00:52:35] I’m training the team, sometimes almost like I’m, there’s, there’s two camps that you’re dealing [00:52:40] with. Two, two different power bases. So sad.

Amber Aplin: It’s so sad when that happens. [00:52:45]

Payman Langroudi: But but but what I was going to what I’m getting at is do you think. Do you agree with me? I know [00:52:50] that that comes down from the top. You know, if you’re a happy person and relaxed, your team [00:52:55] will be. If you’re not, and if you’re indecisive, your team will be. [00:53:00] You know your team. Get that from the top.

Amber Aplin: I don’t know, probably [00:53:05] more than likely in most cases. Um, when I first bought the practice, though, it was [00:53:10] like that. When I first bought the practice.

Payman Langroudi: Two teams.

Amber Aplin: It was two teams. It was. But I didn’t [00:53:15] even see it. I didn’t see it. It was. It was kind of. It didn’t feel right. It didn’t feel comfortable.

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Amber Aplin: I [00:53:20] didn’t see it because I’m quite gullible. I’m quite naive. I’m very naive and very trusting and believing. [00:53:25] Um, I didn’t see it going on. It was bullying under the seams, under the kind [00:53:30] of behind my back, really. And it actually came out through lockdown [00:53:35] when the team were all kind of, you know, on social, on their kind [00:53:40] of groups and talking about me, complaining about everything, bitching about me. [00:53:45] And one loyal person, let me see what was going on. I was [00:53:50] like, oh my goodness, I wouldn’t have had a clue otherwise, you know? And and then [00:53:55] how.

Payman Langroudi: Did you feel?

Amber Aplin: Oh, that’s a low point. Was it? Um, I [00:54:00] kind of felt it a little bit.

Payman Langroudi: Betrayed or something, or.

Amber Aplin: I think it’s because I always [00:54:05] mean well and mean no harm. And when someone gets you wrong and [00:54:10] or it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Doubly painful.

Amber Aplin: Isn’t it? It was very hard, actually, and that was a very [00:54:15] low point. I didn’t mind lockdown at all. It was great because I actually well, it wasn’t great, obviously, [00:54:20] but um, it was the right time for me to look at the practice. I had it three years before that. So [00:54:25] it looked at the branding, the business, you know everything. All [00:54:30] business review over lockdown just while I had time. Um, and, uh, [00:54:35] I was actually answering the phone calls to patients every day. I was, I was the point of contact for all the incoming [00:54:40] calls. That was quite nice to, um, but I had a sense that [00:54:45] people weren’t quite on the same page as me then. You know, I had the occasional zoom call, and it just felt [00:54:50] very awkward. And I was like, because you can’t see them face to face. It was very hard, you know? [00:54:55] So, um, the first experience came back was the [00:55:00] practice manager, and the senior nurse had me called [00:55:05] me for a meeting. So before that, I let them kind of run the show, run [00:55:10] the run it in the way they had done before. I didn’t want to rock the boat at all. So anyway, I had them [00:55:15] call me for a meeting saying, um, the whole team, the whole team don’t feel safe to come back to work. [00:55:20] I was like, wow, that is that’s tough to listen, [00:55:25] tough to take, you know. But in reality, it wasn’t me doing the protocols.

Amber Aplin: It was kind [00:55:30] of them, you know what I mean? So I felt I had no control over or had control, but I felt, [00:55:35] how am I how is this coming across? What am I doing wrong to let that kind of be the message? [00:55:40] Um, of course, I was keen to get going because it was a business and it was [00:55:45] a private practice. We had no funding at all from the government. Yeah. Um, luckily [00:55:50] furlough was there to save us, which the staff loved. Of course, that was a great [00:55:55] time for them to. And, um, I was like, Crikey, this is, this is really, [00:56:00] really tough. And um, so I actually phoned Chris Barrow. I said, what am I going to do here? [00:56:05] And he was a great support. Great support. He said, Amber, they’re [00:56:10] either with you or they’re not. If they’re not with you, they can go the [00:56:15] famous saying on the bus or not on the bus. Well, I had that same conversation with [00:56:20] them the very next time. I said, guys, you know, this is what I need to do to get this practice going. This is [00:56:25] what we have to do and work, you know, eight till two, then two till eight. And and [00:56:30] didn’t agree with that. I said, this is what we’re doing. You’re either with me or not. So then next [00:56:35] week they kind of like five of them said, right.

Payman Langroudi: We’re going five of them, one [00:56:40] whole power base. My goodness.

Amber Aplin: In one go. Um, so that was actually. [00:56:45]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, listen, I’m sorry, I’m interested to see how you handled that. But for someone [00:56:50] to leave their job, it’s it’s huge, isn’t it? Yeah. There’s there’s consequences [00:56:55] to your household. I guess we’re talking some junior people as well, right? Some nurses [00:57:00] or whatever it was.

Amber Aplin: It was all the senior management team, really, I suppose. And [00:57:05] I should be fair. To be fair, two of them retired because of all the PPE and everything. So it was really [00:57:10] three of the power ones left and two others retired at the same time. So the two that retired.

[BOTH]: Were [00:57:15] were you kind of.

Payman Langroudi: Intentionally harsh was, you know, was it was it was, it was it was it a [00:57:20] massive surprise and a massive nightmare. Or were you kind of happy about it at the time?

Amber Aplin: This kind of conversation happening [00:57:25] with you is very calm, very much. This is the way it has to be. Yeah. You’re either with me or you’re not. [00:57:30] We can’t have a split approach here, you know. And so it was very calm, very nice conversation. [00:57:35] And, um.

Payman Langroudi: Did it surprise you when they walked out?

Amber Aplin: I was actually [00:57:40] kind of glad. I relieved. I was like, this is a weight off. At the same time as, like, what [00:57:45] we’re going to do with these patients, plan members who we owe check-ups. Oh, hygiene for the past three months. [00:57:50]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yeah.

Amber Aplin: Um, diary is full of patients that were there, that hadn’t been moved at that point with, [00:57:55] um, almost no team, you know, had a handful. Well, maybe three that were left.

[BOTH]: What [00:58:00] did you do?

Payman Langroudi: Did you hire.

Amber Aplin: Recruited?

Payman Langroudi: Hard to recruit.

Amber Aplin: Recruit? It was actually [00:58:05] a good time to recruit for us in the ward in the borders, because everyone, I don’t know, people have lost their jobs [00:58:10] because of the because of lockdown and Covid.

Payman Langroudi: Businesses. Businesses.

Amber Aplin: So [00:58:15] we had a huge pool of applicants each time. So I recruited from a lot of interviews. [00:58:20] We’ve got probably two each time and thought, you’re a great person, let’s find the job for you somewhere.

Payman Langroudi: Because [00:58:25] it was a really difficult time down here. I remember, you know, a lot of people had gone [00:58:30] back home. You know, London is full of foreigners, right? A lot of people have gone back home during, uh, [00:58:35] Covid and then hadn’t come back.

Amber Aplin: Right.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Um, there was inflation, [00:58:40] you know, like, uh, wage inflation. People wanted more money [00:58:45] than than than before.

Amber Aplin: That’s right. They chose to do a part time rather than.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:58:50]

Amber Aplin: A lifestyle choices.

Payman Langroudi: And, you know, like many, many of our team are now in a remote that, [00:58:55] you know, whereas they were full time. Many of our team are remote. And so you have to understand [00:59:00] from your nurse’s perspective, she has a best friend who’s working from [00:59:05] home. Yeah. And so the extra of course, some people love leaving home and meeting [00:59:10] people and all that. And those are the people you want to recruit, right? Yeah. But, you know, if you see working from home as [00:59:15] a benefit, um, then you’ve got to be paid more to work from a from [00:59:20] a place. Yeah. That’s true. You know, it just changed. Covid brought a whole lot of stuff into, [00:59:25] like, accelerated a whole lot of stuff. But for you, it was kind of good.

Amber Aplin: It was great.

Payman Langroudi: Did [00:59:30] you find good people?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. We just kept recruiting, actually, and then we ended up developing a practice [00:59:35] a year later from 4 to 6 chairs. Developed the whole top floor for more office [00:59:40] space, bigger staff room.

Payman Langroudi: Um, it was an amazing time in terms of patience. Patience had money in [00:59:45] their pockets.

Amber Aplin: Had money? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It was, it was. I remember everyone was so high in [00:59:50] dentistry thinking everything’s going to be all right.

Amber Aplin: But I wasn’t [00:59:55] very clever, though. I was pretty, I wasn’t very clever or wise because we did not charge nearly enough. [01:00:00] We were undercharging grossly undercharging for everything we did at the time. So I was working really hard [01:00:05] six days a week trying to recover from Covid and things. Um, I wasn’t [01:00:10] very smart.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about that because, Kelso, to me, maybe I’m wrong. Doesn’t [01:00:15] sound like the richest town in the world, is it? Are there pockets, by the way? [01:00:20] Every single area has people who’ve got a bit of money in their pockets. Right.

Amber Aplin: Um, [01:00:25] there’s a mix, actually. A big mix, like you say, from wealthy farmers who [01:00:30] like to keep money in their pocket. Actually, um, there’s actually lots of big castles around there and [01:00:35] dukes and things. Um, a lot of, I suppose, um, businesses [01:00:40] in the area, business owners. I mean, we have a whole range of patients. A lot of [01:00:45] them actually are probably semi-retired as well. Moving, moving there, um, for long [01:00:50] term retirement, I guess.

Payman Langroudi: What is the positioning of the practice as far as [01:00:55] you know? Is it do you do you position yourself at the top end as far as [01:01:00] how much things cost and the quality of care or Marks and Spencer or what? [01:01:05]

Amber Aplin: We don’t really look at anyone else. I just charge what we feel is right for us. You know [01:01:10] what we offer. So we are we charge quite high, high prices. As [01:01:15] far as I believe. I don’t feel it’s enough, actually. But I think because our patients have, um, [01:01:20] are long standing, loyal patients have seen the kind of since since 2021, 22, [01:01:25] 2020. They’ve seen the the almost the huge increases each [01:01:30] year, year on year. So I’m doing a little bit gradually. If I was on my own, I’d be charging [01:01:35] more. But I’m just doing it gradually as patients can kind of cope with [01:01:40] it. But again, I’m increasing fees by about 20% for the onlays and overlays [01:01:45] from from now from January. Quite a big step again, you know, um, so we’re [01:01:50] all we’re all getting there and getting there now where the prices should be. But um, not [01:01:55] quite, not quite.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, let’s just from a cold business perspective and I know that’s [01:02:00] not what we’re in. We’re not in a cold business. We’re in a warm healthcare business. But from a cold business perspective, [01:02:05] if you add 30% to the price of everything [01:02:10] and you lose 30% of your patients. You’re [01:02:15] way ahead.

Amber Aplin: That would work.

Payman Langroudi: You’re way ahead. You’re not in the same [01:02:20] place. You’re way ahead because you’re doing much less work for the same income. It’s true. And obviously, [01:02:25] you don’t want to lose a single patient. So if you can increase your prices by [01:02:30] 15, 20% and not lose a single patient, the compounding effect [01:02:35] of that three, four years down the line, people forget that, you know, the price [01:02:40] of a crown or whatever. If it goes up 20% a year or 15% a year, pretty [01:02:45] soon it’s doubling. You know that’s.

Amber Aplin: True. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: You know, um, I used to have [01:02:50] a boss. He was he used to say, oh, your your your patient should always be complaining about how expensive [01:02:55] you are. So really? Yeah. But he really, truly believed that. Yeah. You [01:03:00] know, he was saying if patients aren’t complaining about that, the prices aren’t high enough. Yeah. Um, and he’d [01:03:05] gone private in 1964, in, in Kent, on the seaside, you know, like.

Amber Aplin: I [01:03:10] don’t know. It’s a funny thing because I want to do right by our patients [01:03:15] too, and I want to be affordable for the majority of our patients. We can’t be for everyone, of course, [01:03:20] but a lot of our, um, our team, their family members come to us as well. [01:03:25] And, you know, it’s just a little bit of a balance there. So, um.

Payman Langroudi: Especially in a small town, you’re [01:03:30] kind of like the pillar of the community, isn’t it? You can’t. Like I said, it’s not a cold business decision. [01:03:35]

Amber Aplin: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Have you got any plans to do more?

Amber Aplin: In what way?

Payman Langroudi: More practices.

Amber Aplin: Um, [01:03:40] no. No. I mean, maybe one day, a single chair squat [01:03:45] somewhere alongside alongside alongside. Um. But I [01:03:50] love I love it so much, you know? And the team are all like family. It probably shouldn’t be, but [01:03:55] they are, I think a lot of them and, you know, very love working alongside them all and every [01:04:00] day is a privilege really, you know.

Payman Langroudi: So what do you mean? You mean you’re so happy that you don’t want to risk being unhappy [01:04:05] by opening a second one?

Amber Aplin: Um, no. I’m just I would never I would never want to [01:04:10] just move on from my practice. I love it so much and the team, I love working with them. [01:04:15] So it’s a hard thing, isn’t it? It’s a hard thing to know what to do for the best longer term. Really [01:04:20] haven’t really figured it all out yet, but I’m just very happy where I am now because it [01:04:25] just works a joy. And that’s that’s a privilege.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So important. [01:04:30] Let’s get on to the darker part of the pod. And you already discussed one [01:04:35] unhappy patient. But but if we’re talking errors, what errors [01:04:40] come to mind? Clinical errors.

Amber Aplin: Yeah I made I don’t know. One [01:04:45] that stands out was about, I don’t know, 6 or 7 years ago. [01:04:50] Um, and a patient walked in and she’s got a huge midline diastema, [01:04:55] and I couldn’t take my eyes off it. You know, just drawn to it all the time. And I said straight away to [01:05:00] her, you know, we can really help with that. You know, we can just show you how it can look with a bit of composite [01:05:05] bonding to the middle of it. And and she was horrified. And I just thought, oh, what [01:05:10] have I done? This poor lady. And she, she said, I like I like the [01:05:15] way my teeth look. And so terrible, horrible, horrible [01:05:20] person to do that. So I learnt very quickly and again through I think through actually that [01:05:25] training you learn really find out what the patient finds a concern, not what we [01:05:30] think is a concern. So I learned that really quickly from that. And I felt [01:05:35] awful afterwards. And I still see this lady and I still remember every now and again when I see her. My [01:05:40] mistake. Um, so yeah, learning that really quickly find out what the patients are [01:05:45] concerned about and not what we think.

Payman Langroudi: So do you ask [01:05:50] specifically? Ask?

Amber Aplin: Yeah, I do, um, I kind of use the [01:05:55] kind of 20 year kind of, you know, question or phrase, you know, say, [01:06:00] say when you’re kind of in your 70s or 80s, how do you want your teeth to look, feel [01:06:05] and function what’s important for you. You know, and and they always say, well, when I keep my teeth, [01:06:10] I want to have them for life. You know, and so. Well, we can help we can help you with that. You know, this is [01:06:15] what we need to do if you want to do that, basically. So it’s not just where we are now, it’s where we are in the future. [01:06:20] That’s I think, what’s important.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re saying that what the patient who [01:06:25] let’s say that patient. The patient, um, if she doesn’t mention the diastema in that [01:06:30] question, you don’t bring it up.

Amber Aplin: No, not at all.

Payman Langroudi: But if she does say I want them to look nice, then you do that. [01:06:35]

Amber Aplin: If no, I would say what? No, I’d say, what is it about your teeth you don’t like? If that was the thing, you know. And do [01:06:40] a photo, perhaps show on the screen and get her to show me exactly what it is. Because it could be a little [01:06:45] stain further back and miss the obvious thing in the middle of it. Yeah. So you’re always [01:06:50] patient led.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about the brand, the gentle touch. Because I bang on [01:06:55] in this podcast about gentle dentistry. Yeah. Is it. Did you inherit that or did you, [01:07:00] did you?

Amber Aplin: You know what?

Payman Langroudi: Name it.

Amber Aplin: I don’t love the name. I don’t love the name, but I inherited [01:07:05] it when I bought it and.

Payman Langroudi: I love the name.

Amber Aplin: I [01:07:10] mean, it could be a massage parlour. It could be kind of.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:07:15] hadn’t thought of that gentle touch, but we’ve got one [01:07:20] of our big users. Gentle Dental. Oh, yeah, but but I don’t know, man. I think we [01:07:25] forget when we’re in it. We forget how scary dentistry is. And I just think it’s the lowest [01:07:30] hanging fruit of all is we’re good with nervous patients. It’s [01:07:35] so obvious to me, you know, like half the population is scared.

Amber Aplin: I hate them, though. I hate nervous [01:07:40] patients. Oh, yeah. I find it hard. Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: Oh, well, then then you would have.

Amber Aplin: My [01:07:45] colleagues great with it, though. My colleague loves nervous patients. I [01:07:50] refer them to my colleague if they’re nervous. Um, no, I inherited [01:07:55] it and but made it work. So we’re gentle in more ways than one. So our branding is gentle. [01:08:00] You know, we’re subtle in our our kind of we do our aesthetics, you know, all [01:08:05] that kind of thing. But we’re subtle with that. We don’t do in-your-face lip fillers and all [01:08:10] that. It’s subtle, um, gentle to teeth. You know, we only have the guided biofilm [01:08:15] therapy. We don’t do all the everything else. So and obviously with [01:08:20] the biomimetics, we’re a preservative of teeth. We’re. Which is gentle. Really? Um, [01:08:25] yeah. Just gentle in the way we treat people and our.

Payman Langroudi: Could [01:08:30] you don’t tell patients these stories, do you? These are more internal stories.

Amber Aplin: This is it comes [01:08:35] through the brand, the branding that we do and how patients are made to how they feel when they come [01:08:40] through the practice, how they’re made to feel. You know, it’s all about what we do. And everything’s gentle. Everything’s [01:08:45] calm, quiet. Take our time, you know, professional. So [01:08:50] that’s kind of the way we want our patients to feel.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:08:55] are you aware of, you know, like from the. It [01:09:00] sounds like you’re very interested in the patient journey.

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So does that patient journey. [01:09:05] Are there specifics, touch points in that patient journey that you you [01:09:10] put in, or do you tell your team, just be really great to everyone you know, like, is [01:09:15] it very general or is it specific. Does does everyone get x, y and Z?

Amber Aplin: Yeah, [01:09:20] I mean, we’ve created this, um, kind of culture kind of culture [01:09:25] guide or culture deck.

Payman Langroudi: So in your team.

Amber Aplin: Yeah, for the whole team. [01:09:30]

Payman Langroudi: So what does it say? Stuff like you just talked about.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Exactly. Right. So everyone’s acknowledging every single patient [01:09:35] is treated like a human being. You know, there’s no scripts. Actually, we don’t do scripts. We don’t do that because [01:09:40] it might come across as inauthentic. So actually, all of our team members are brilliant people [01:09:45] in their own right. So they’re going to treat people with respect naturally. So they’re always made to [01:09:50] feel like they’re human beings. We don’t let patients walk throughout the practice without someone being with them. So [01:09:55] we’d always escort them everywhere except the kind of bathroom [01:10:00] of obviously, you know. Yeah, but you know what I mean. So there’s always handovers there. Always. This is so [01:10:05] and so when they go into a surgery, it’s always, this is my nurse, this is Gemma here or, you know, [01:10:10] this is Tamsin. So everyone’s treated with dignity, respect. Um, [01:10:15] and it’s like everywhere, you know, it’s patient focussed. So we [01:10:20] listen to their concerns and their goals and we go along at their own pace and the [01:10:25] patients are in control. It’s just a kind of a way to be treated, I suppose. And [01:10:30] this is what we we all do.

Payman Langroudi: But then tactics wise, do [01:10:35] you encourage word of mouth? Do you do you ask patients to recommend friends [01:10:40] to you? Do you ask for reviews? Do you?

Amber Aplin: Yeah, we do actually, to be honest, we [01:10:45] I mean, um, I mean, this is the one of our receptions called Jen. She’ll [01:10:50] put on a day sheet who has Google Gmail. Sorry. So they can obviously do the Google [01:10:55] reviews. Um, so we don’t ask anybody else because it’s a real faff. If you haven’t got the Gmail account, it’s a real [01:11:00] faff doing Google reviews. So we know who to who we can ask. Um, so we try and [01:11:05] ask them if they’ll do us a favour and ask for some feedback. Um, [01:11:10] we yeah, we’ve got little handouts we hand to our great [01:11:15] patients and say, look, we love treating you and we’d be happy to refer one of your friends or family if they’re, you [01:11:20] know, looking for a dentist or something, or.

Payman Langroudi: Is that incentivised [01:11:25] in any direction?

Amber Aplin: No, no, we used to give out vouchers, but not anymore. So. [01:11:30] Yeah, it’s actually all word of mouth. [01:11:35] We don’t really do any advertising at all. We used to do a little bit dabble for a while, but we haven’t done advertising [01:11:40] for a long time.

Payman Langroudi: Do you? I mean, is there a coffee [01:11:45] machine?

Amber Aplin: This is a bit of a debate right now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Amber Aplin: So I bought [01:11:50] I bought one for, um, for the courses I’m running in the practice. So I bought a machine for the delegates. [01:11:55] Lovely. All singing, all dancing. Coffee machine, which is a prime joy. So we now use [01:12:00] it in our staff room for the the staff. Um, so now we have the chance to offer patients [01:12:05] a coffee. You know, so it’s, um. I don’t know. How do you do that? Have you got any advice for us? [01:12:10]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, definitely hundred percent. Do it. Why not?

Amber Aplin: Before their appointment. What if it’s hot and they can’t finish [01:12:15] it before their appointment?

Payman Langroudi: I mean, look, I’m getting excellent coffee at the [01:12:20] BMW showroom when I take my car for garage. I’m not buying a car. [01:12:25] Yeah, just taking my car for a service. Yeah, it’s a car service area. Yeah. Marvellous. [01:12:30] Brilliant coffee. Excellent coffee. Um, beautiful seating area. [01:12:35] Like, by the time the guys even come over to say hi, I just feel like [01:12:40] I’ve spent 2 or £300 on that. You know, like, I feel it feels good. It feels good. Okay. So [01:12:45] in a place like yours. Why? Why not? I mean, if.

Amber Aplin: They’re going to have a treatment next. So if someone’s working in [01:12:50] their mouth, would they want to drink coffee before that?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. No one minds. No one minds about that.

Amber Aplin: We could try that. [01:12:55]

Payman Langroudi: No, it’s an amazing thing. Yeah, because I, I visited a thousand practices. [01:13:00] I’ve worked in many practices. I go to train a practice. They [01:13:05] say coffee sometimes. Not always, I [01:13:10] say sure. Yeah. Sometimes they’ve been Chris Barad and they’ll say something like, [01:13:15] oh, what kind of coffee? Yeah, I’ll go flat white. Yeah. I expect it to [01:13:20] be terrible. Yeah, but sometimes it’s excellent. Sometimes it’s excellent. I drink this excellent coffee [01:13:25] and I draw all sorts of conclusions. Even though I’m fully into I know everything. [01:13:30] I know there’s no link between your biomimetic dentistry and the quality of your coffee beans. [01:13:35] I know that. Yeah, but even I still drink this coffee thing. These [01:13:40] are good guys. They know what they’re doing. Yeah, they must know. You know, their dentistry if they’ve got their coffee. [01:13:45] Right. And I’m doing it knowing it’s incorrect. So from the patient’s perspective, [01:13:50] I mean, maybe I like coffee too much, but from the patient’s perspective, it’s just another way [01:13:55] of telling the patient it’s brilliant. It’s different to other places.

Amber Aplin: I’m thinking of doing it perhaps in December or something. [01:14:00] A takeaway cup branded, of course. And they have it to go away with after their appointment. This is [01:14:05] have it on us. Um, yeah. We’re working into our workflow somehow.

Payman Langroudi: I also think [01:14:10] that practices don’t have enough humans. You know, when compared to other [01:14:15] situations, you know, there’s it’s almost like we’ve got the very minimum [01:14:20] number of. Of course we do. We’re running a business. Right. You don’t want to pay another salary, extra salary. But [01:14:25] in a situation where it’s you feel so it’s so difficult. I’ve just had [01:14:30] some dentistry done and I hated it so much. But in a situation where the the [01:14:35] customer, the patient feels so scared, then [01:14:40] more people would help and practice seemed to run on the bare minimum. [01:14:45] Um, so my point is, if the coffee machine comes with a human Yeah. [01:14:50] Who has to? I mean, yeah, I don’t mean assigned to the coffee machine, but I’m just saying, if you need a few more people [01:14:55] to to serve coffee and clean up and all that, that’s.

Amber Aplin: A good.

Payman Langroudi: Idea. Those people you know, in those [01:15:00] minutes will also be raising the brand. The brand [01:15:05] of the practice. Yeah. Immeasurably. And and I know people like, uh, [01:15:10] Mike Hesketh and Chris Barry love to measure stuff. Yeah. But I’m sure [01:15:15] they’ll tell you. Right. Some of the most important stuff in dentistry is not measurable.

Amber Aplin: I would agree with that. [01:15:20]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Amber Aplin: Yeah, that’s a good idea.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. For sure. You should definitely do that.

Amber Aplin: You should have got [01:15:25] more staff. Actually, we have got more than the minimum staff as well because we like to have extra staff around. Um. [01:15:30] It’s important.

Payman Langroudi: What have you done around the sort of career progression part [01:15:35] for the team?

Amber Aplin: The team? We just find out what they’re, what they want to do and support that, [01:15:40] you know?

Payman Langroudi: But if you’ve got a nurse who is really keen. Yeah. Is she going to end up as [01:15:45] practice manager one day? Is that is that the way you think of it?

Amber Aplin: My husband’s actually doing that right now he’s running the practice. [01:15:50] Um, so he’s doing that job right now.

Payman Langroudi: Your husband’s running.

Amber Aplin: The husband’s doing it is he’s ops manager [01:15:55] or practice manager?

Payman Langroudi: Is he a.

Amber Aplin: Dentist? He’s not. No, no, no he’s not. He’s come from military as well. [01:16:00] He’s. Okay. Ex-military.

Payman Langroudi: And is that where you met?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Yeah. So he [01:16:05] runs a practice for us. He’s brilliant with the staff. Phenomenal. Um, so. Yeah, [01:16:10] which is great to have someone to go to as well, because I can focus on my patients focus. I’m literally [01:16:15] a dentist now. It’s all I do. Dentistry. Nothing else.

Payman Langroudi: So you were doing that [01:16:20] work? I was doing it until your husband came in.

Amber Aplin: When the PM left after.

Payman Langroudi: Lockdown. Okay, okay. [01:16:25]

Amber Aplin: I was doing everything pretty much. I was staying very late and, you know, doing all the wages [01:16:30] and things.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s a great lesson there, isn’t there? Just there. There’s a brilliant lesson. I [01:16:35] mean, with your husband, it’s someone you can fully trust. So it’s kind of even easier. But the idea that, [01:16:40] you know, if you’re having a hard time in practice doing everything, it’s possible [01:16:45] someone else could come and take over some of those responsibilities and do them even better than you.

Amber Aplin: Oh, [01:16:50] far better than me. Yeah, I really wasn’t great. You know, you’ve got to focus on where your skills lie, you know? [01:16:55] So going back to the staff, of course we support them. So we’ve got some nurses that run scanning clinics [01:17:00] and do Invisalign consults. Um, and you know, if [01:17:05] they want to do more, they can. And they’ve got the implant nurses that are really well trained. And we’ve got one nurse [01:17:10] who’s now or two CEOs now as well. So of course there’s progression within the practice [01:17:15] to do a lot more if they want to.

Payman Langroudi: What are you struggling with?

Amber Aplin: Trying [01:17:20] to I’m struggling with promoting why we’re different at the practice, [01:17:25] why our.

Payman Langroudi: Treatments.

Amber Aplin: Are different. Yeah, we can do it 1 to 1 as we go along, of course, but [01:17:30] it’s getting the wider knowledge out there because, as you say, no one knows what’s different about this white [01:17:35] filling, you know? Yeah. No one knows.

Payman Langroudi: It’s my struggle too. I’m in charge of communication [01:17:40] for enlighten. And yeah, it’s a struggle. It’s a struggle, particularly struggle when, [01:17:45] you know, like you’ve tried something, you’ve said something. And you know what I’ve realised? It has to [01:17:50] come down to one statement. You know that your your public not [01:17:55] only will won’t hear more than one statement, they can’t spread more than [01:18:00] one statement between. And what I’ve realised is that, you know, for instance we [01:18:05] we settled on this no ordinary whitening. Yeah, yeah. Although it sounds.

Amber Aplin: Good, I like [01:18:10] that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it sounds good. It’s not a talk trigger. You know, you’re not going to say one dentist is not going to say to another use [01:18:15] enlightened. It’s no ordinary whitening.

Amber Aplin: No.

Payman Langroudi: That’s true. Whereas whereas, uh, the one we had previously [01:18:20] really was a talk trigger and and.

Amber Aplin: What was that.

Payman Langroudi: One guaranteed whitening it was. [01:18:25]

Amber Aplin: I’ve seen that. That’s great.

Payman Langroudi: We had that in 2008. Back then it was a really important.

Amber Aplin: Thing that [01:18:30] true. Did that work? Is that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it has been since 2008.

Amber Aplin: Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: Um, but [01:18:35] but but you see what my point is this, that if the, if you want word of mouth. Yeah. [01:18:40] And you want word of mouth about the subject.

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That you want. And in your case, [01:18:45] it’s we’re doing this new thing and and it’s good for you old thing. Yeah, [01:18:50] exactly. Exactly. It’s good for you. And, um, we’re super excited about [01:18:55] it. Yeah. You have to encapsulate that in a, in a one statement that [01:19:00] people will tell each other. Yeah. And, you know.

Amber Aplin: It’s not just a feeling.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [01:19:05] I.

Amber Aplin: Know it’s not just it’s not a crown. We don’t do crowns anymore. I mean, you [01:19:10] know what I mean? It’s not just it’s like a thousand steps, 50 or 60 steps [01:19:15] rather than, I don’t know, ten.

Payman Langroudi: Do you love the accuracy of of biomimetics? [01:19:20]

Amber Aplin: I like the way an exactly every single step is the same. So I love [01:19:25] the way it’s so repeatable and predictable. You know, every tooth [01:19:30] is different. Every tooth is a bit of a mystery about how we’re going to solve the problem. [01:19:35] You know, the pathology led. Yeah. Um, so it is interesting for that reason. [01:19:40] Keeps it interesting, but all the steps are the same, so I do love that predictability of [01:19:45] it.

Payman Langroudi: What do you do in the five minutes while you’re waiting for that bomb to mature?

Amber Aplin: You actually can do, um, [01:19:50] if you go to, you know, a deep margin elevation, you can do the DME deep [01:19:55] part. You can do the little thin resin coat. So thin flowable [01:20:00] composite over the whole dentine surface. Um, or if it’s a class five restoration, [01:20:05] like a buckle, I would just do notes for five minutes because you can’t do anything else apart from have [01:20:10] to sit and wait. So yeah, I just couldn’t do my notes and tell the patient.

Payman Langroudi: The dam is still [01:20:15] on. The patient can’t. You can’t talk to the patient.

Amber Aplin: I say, look, I’ll just give you some time for [01:20:20] the for the bond to really mature. Um, have a rest, you know, can half close your mouth a little bit. I’ll be [01:20:25] over here doing notes and keep it really relaxed and keep it chill.

Payman Langroudi: Seems [01:20:30] so obvious.

Amber Aplin: So it’s quite good. It’s very relaxed. And I like that as well, you [01:20:35] know.

Payman Langroudi: Are you going to teach more? How much have you taught so far?

Amber Aplin: I’ve one [01:20:40] course so far in September, and I loved it, because you’re never going to know until you try it, right?

Payman Langroudi: Teaching [01:20:45] is fun.

Amber Aplin: It’s so good.

Payman Langroudi: And the first time is the hardest as well. You’ll find you’ll find it easier and easier [01:20:50] as you go.

Amber Aplin: I like about it as you have to know your stuff. You have to go back to the books, go back to [01:20:55] the papers again, and really make sure you can explain everything.

Payman Langroudi: To in case some clever [01:21:00] dick says something like quotes, a paper you don’t know or something.

Amber Aplin: You know it. You know how to do the protocols. [01:21:05]

Payman Langroudi: As a teacher, you’ve got.

Amber Aplin: To explain it, you know? So, um, I you know, I love that the next [01:21:10] one is in January, so.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really? Really.

Amber Aplin: So just for right now, it’s just the, um, I [01:21:15] call it intro or the level one, you know, for therapists and dentists for the direct composite [01:21:20] restorations. Um, however, dentists are asking me to do the level two [01:21:25] now, which is onlays overlays and semi-direct restorations. So I’ve got a [01:21:30] request for that for next year, but it’s quite a lot to do. So I’m not sure if I want to do it next year or not, whether [01:21:35] to defer another year. There’s quite a lot going on.

Payman Langroudi: Are you finding therapists [01:21:40] are disproportionately working on. Yeah.

Amber Aplin: Loads of therapists, which [01:21:45] is great. It’s great for them. Therapists and owners. Owners want to see [01:21:50] how it’s done because we.

Payman Langroudi: Also do go into that then.

Amber Aplin: So the first day is actually, [01:21:55] um, a theory, obviously hands on with real teeth. They see a real cracks, [01:22:00] real teeth in extracted teeth. And the caries dye obviously will work.

Payman Langroudi: Of.

Amber Aplin: Course. So that’s [01:22:05] really great. And then you just first the first half is getting rid of the caries and cracks and [01:22:10] you know the right way of doing that. And then the second half of the day is restoring it, doing [01:22:15] all the IDs resin Co and the composite. And then we [01:22:20] and also photography’s next day is a bit of photography. And then we also [01:22:25] shadow the therapists doing a therapist led care appointment and [01:22:30] also a restoration as well. And dentists will watch me doing it with microscope and a big screen [01:22:35] and thing.

Payman Langroudi: So this is all in Kelso.

Amber Aplin: It’s all in my practice. That’s the same building. So the training centre in one half [01:22:40] and the building is in the other half, the practice is the other half. So I can do both in one building. [01:22:45]

Payman Langroudi: So people I mean, do you get people travelling?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. [01:22:50] Yeah. From Exeter and Essex.

Payman Langroudi: Exeter.

Amber Aplin: All this [01:22:55] people travel. They don’t come from the local practices at the moment. They [01:23:00] travel more I suppose. Um a lot of therapists are coming along. So. Yeah, that’s [01:23:05] all good.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s a two day course.

Amber Aplin: Two day course all day and a half. They finish it by about 3:00 the next [01:23:10] day.

Payman Langroudi: Do you do like a social.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. That night. Yeah. Local restaurant and.

Payman Langroudi: Excellent. [01:23:15]

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Excellent. I’ve really enjoyed it. Um, learning from you. Um, [01:23:20] we kind of end with the same sort of quick fire questions. What comes to mind if I [01:23:25] say best education? You’ve had best lecture. You’ve seen.

Amber Aplin: It’s got to be the course in Glasgow. [01:23:30]

Payman Langroudi: Oh yeah.

Amber Aplin: Yeah. Life changing game changing course.

Payman Langroudi: What about your favourite [01:23:35] resource? Dental resource book. Website? Social media. Which one?

Amber Aplin: Social [01:23:40] media.

Payman Langroudi: From what accounts that you.

Amber Aplin: Are going to.

Payman Langroudi: Learn.

Amber Aplin: From [01:23:45] the greats. So the almonds. Well David almonds, the son who’s [01:23:50] doing everything. And Peter Farkas um, yeah. Just all [01:23:55] those kind of biometric dentists I guess, or a whole range, I suppose. But it’s always going to be [01:24:00] Instagram pretty much for that. Yeah, I like to zone in and [01:24:05] check everything out and just make sure you’re doing everything right yourself. Just it’s almost like reinforcing your [01:24:10] if you’re doing things right.

Payman Langroudi: If you had all the time and all the money in the world, what’s the course you’re desperate to go on? [01:24:15]

Amber Aplin: I, um, I think for some point soon I want to do [01:24:20] either or both. Um, Pascal Mani, um, going train with him for a [01:24:25] while. And also Peter Farkas phenomenal dentist [01:24:30] as well. So just again, more, I suppose more. Watching someone’s clinic [01:24:35] is quite useful. Watching how they work their workflows and things is really what I want to go and see now, because it’s [01:24:40] really great seeing Davies practice. Yeah, that’s really great.

Payman Langroudi: Have you looked at small stories as [01:24:45] well?

Amber Aplin: Yeah. That’s phenomenal.

Payman Langroudi: What an amazing sort of thought process. Those guys [01:24:50] are.

Amber Aplin: Phenomenal. I love what they do.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Um, okay. Final questions. [01:24:55] It’s a fantasy dinner party. Question. Three guests, dead or alive, [01:25:00] who would you have?

Amber Aplin: So I think Margaret [01:25:05] Thatcher would be very interesting. I really think a lot of her. She’s great. [01:25:10] She didn’t care what anyone thought. Stuck to her guns.

Payman Langroudi: You arrived in the UK [01:25:15] five years old in 1979.

Amber Aplin: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Me too. Six of six. Gosh. [01:25:20] The winter of discontent. It was really. Yeah. I mean, I remember getting [01:25:25] here thinking, what the hell place is. So you were a little bit. I was six, I was six. [01:25:30] There was. There was a general strike. Everyone was on strike. The rubbish [01:25:35] people said it was rubbish piled up everywhere. That’s right. The guys, the gravediggers were on strike [01:25:40] like everyone was on strike. And, um, it was Labour, you [01:25:45] know. It was. It was. Callaghan was the Prime Minister back then and Thatcher was, was the prospective. [01:25:50] Okay. You know, trying to trying to, trying to win. Um, [01:25:55] but then do you remember her as a child. Yeah. So [01:26:00] she was harsh at the time, if you remember. Did you like that? Yeah.

Amber Aplin: It’s more respect [01:26:05] for her, you know, and going for what she believes in. Yeah. And not listening to doubters and [01:26:10] staying different.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right. Actually, that’s that’s what’s missing right now. Yeah. Isn’t it? [01:26:15] It feels. It feels like people. People, politicians now they almost look at the market. [01:26:20] They look at they look at the and the votes. The electorate as a market. Yeah. Yeah. They think market’s [01:26:25] swinging this way so they’ll switch. Whereas Thatcher seemed to like have her ideology whether [01:26:30] you liked it or not. She was following a particular thought process that turned out [01:26:35] to be right, I guess in the end.

Amber Aplin: Exactly. No, I thought she was brilliant. Um, also, I suppose [01:26:40] my my my grandma and grandpa because I didn’t really know my grandpa at all. Didn’t meet him and my [01:26:45] mom’s side and my grandma. She died when I was about maybe 16 or 17, so I didn’t really know her [01:26:50] very well as an as a grown up. So I’d love to have.

Payman Langroudi: Both your mom’s parents.

Amber Aplin: Yeah, I’d love to kind [01:26:55] of have them again around a dinner table. It’d be quite cool.

Payman Langroudi: Nice. Final [01:27:00] question. It’s a deathbed question. Yeah. Three pieces of advice.

Amber Aplin: Lots [01:27:05] of advice. Because I’ve actually, you know, I’ve had had cancer a couple of years ago [01:27:10] and things. And it really makes you look at what’s important in life. It really makes you look. [01:27:15] So before that, I was really happy in loving life. And but I didn’t really, I suppose, know the true [01:27:20] value of life. So I’ve got loads of advice for this one. Um, I [01:27:25] think it’s the small things in life that really appreciate [01:27:30] small things like going for a walk, birdsong, sunrises, sunsets, [01:27:35] just very small things. Really appreciate them. Invest in yourself. [01:27:40] Keep learning. Keep investing in yourself for the longer term. Um, [01:27:45] just be kind. Be kind. That’s such a simple [01:27:50] thing to do. But not everyone does that. Um, and. [01:27:55] What else? There’s [01:28:00] just.

Payman Langroudi: The experience of.

Amber Aplin: Having the best version of yourself, you know, just be the best [01:28:05] version of yourself.

Payman Langroudi: Experience having cancer. So when you say the small things, is that did that come from [01:28:10] there, where your world suddenly turned upside down and then, yeah, even a simple thing like taking a walk [01:28:15] doesn’t feel right.

Amber Aplin: Yes. Because for a while when you’re first diagnosed, you don’t know if you’re going to survive for, [01:28:20] you know, two months or two years. You just don’t know until the tests come back. So for [01:28:25] that period, you’re really soul searching, like what is important for me right now. And [01:28:30] it’s of course, family. You know, how old.

Payman Langroudi: Were your kids? Just a couple of years ago.

Amber Aplin: Yeah, a couple of years ago. So it was back [01:28:35] in 2023. So it was spring. 23 kids [01:28:40] were. 18 and 16 and 14. [01:28:45] Yeah. But you know, I think as a parent you just [01:28:50] trivialise it. You know, you don’t say you don’t tell them the whole truth. Of course you [01:28:55] say you’re unwell for a while. They know what cancer is. But of course my little boy lost. Oh it’s sad. A friend of mine [01:29:00] died of it. The same thing and same age as his good friend, you know. And [01:29:05] so it’s really sad for him because he thought that was happening to me as well. And of course, it could have happened to me, [01:29:10] and it was a possibility at the time. So I went through all the operations and then had chemo. [01:29:15] When was that again? Forget. But you know, I didn’t really that wasn’t a [01:29:20] a difficult time for me, as I say that with It’s. There’s [01:29:25] truth to that. I kind of worked normally. I didn’t let deter me from my life at all. Didn’t stop me doing my [01:29:30] work. I still did more study. I did the almonds the year long course during [01:29:35] my chemo radiotherapy. I didn’t really kind of stop for [01:29:40] a minute. I didn’t really want to. I loved what I was doing, so I wanted to focus on that. I loved caring [01:29:45] for my patients still. Probably some distraction as well, I would say. But I loved to keep [01:29:50] doing what my day to day job was still important to me at that time, but [01:29:55] still made you kind of soul search as well. At the same time, what’s important? This is where I’m really keen [01:30:00] to do more now. This has given me a new zest for life. I think this is where the training has come from [01:30:05] because I want to just do more. I want to kind of help people, help dentists, help therapists, [01:30:10] help owners with therapist led care. You know, it’s all kind of I think stem [01:30:15] from that. I would say I would never have gone to America for a week. Right? But [01:30:20] I would never. I’m so glad to have done that.

Payman Langroudi: A funny thing, you [01:30:25] know, that. Things you might not have done. And why not? Like, why wouldn’t you have gone to America? [01:30:30] There’s no reason for it. You just kind of script yourself into into the life that you’ve [01:30:35] got in a way, don’t you?

Amber Aplin: You just think, well, I’m busy. You know, you just think your life’s too busy. But you’ve [01:30:40] got to just make time for these things and. And stay curious, stay learning. Do [01:30:45] things you wouldn’t normally do. I wouldn’t normally come on a podcast. You know, this kind of thing is my [01:30:50] the new me, you know? So, um. Nah, it’s all good. [01:30:55]

Payman Langroudi: And your kids, you said 18 at the time. So is he in university? [01:31:00] She.

Amber Aplin: Matilda? Um, she. No, she was at uni. Didn’t get on with uni at [01:31:05] all. Didn’t like it. So she lived in Edinburgh for a while and she’s now just [01:31:10] doing a college course for facial things I think scarring and things. She’s [01:31:15] going to Australia for a few months in December, which would be good. And then she’ll come back, probably [01:31:20] London, I suppose, and and find a job after that at some point.

Payman Langroudi: And do you want your I mean, have you had the conversation [01:31:25] with any of your kids about being a dentist? No.

Amber Aplin: No, no. I mean, I love it, but it’s [01:31:30] I always it’s just whatever they want to do and they’ve never mentioned it at all. They haven’t really until [01:31:35] it hasn’t really old.

Payman Langroudi: Are the other.

Amber Aplin: Two. Um, now they’re now 18 and 16. [01:31:40] Yeah. Matilda and the little one have had were really badly. Had ADHD [01:31:45] but diagnosed very late. So she was 17 when it was diagnosed. So she went through, um, [01:31:50] school not being understood really. And she’s always kind of troublemaker or that [01:31:55] kind of thing, but she just wasn’t understood. So super bright, but just couldn’t really realise that [01:32:00] academic side to her. So that never is on the cards anyway for for her [01:32:05] middle child. He loves the the military actually. So he’s loved doing [01:32:10] CCF at school and wants to go to the Marines. So he’s just doing a police degree now to get enough [01:32:15] points to do that. And my little one, he is um, yeah, quite a character. [01:32:20] He loves socialising. He wants to be an entrepreneur of some kind.

Payman Langroudi: But he’ll [01:32:25] be the billionaire.

Amber Aplin: He’ll be the billionaire. That’s. That’s hope.

Payman Langroudi: So in this journey [01:32:30] of, like doing everything that you’ve done, some, some might say you’ve sort [01:32:35] of got it all. Would you say you’ve been sort of super successful [01:32:40] at that or.

Amber Aplin: I feel very fortunate and very lucky. Privileged.

Payman Langroudi: Let [01:32:45] me put it a different way. You know, I say give a piece of advice, give a piece of advice about being something [01:32:50] that you wish you had done rather than what you did do. Yeah. Like it’s like [01:32:55] some people say, oh, I wish I was less risk averse. That’s you know that. Do you wish [01:33:00] you were what?

Amber Aplin: Um, I think my biggest thing I’m holding back right now is being too [01:33:05] much of a perfectionist. It sounds like a very, very typical answer, and I apologise for that. Um, [01:33:10] but I’m working very late right now, doing letters for patients with photographs on it, you know, arrows [01:33:15] and just. I just feel I’m giving too much of my personal time [01:33:20] right now, and I just try and cut down my admin somehow, but I’m finding it hard to find a way [01:33:25] to do that. Um, so, uh, you know, it [01:33:30] comes from a place of love. I love what I do, and I want to get patients to understand their issues and things or their [01:33:35] teeth problems. But I can’t be staying until half eight at night or 9:00, you know, doing. [01:33:40]

Payman Langroudi: No.

Amber Aplin: Writing to patients and things. It’s a bit over the top, I think. I don’t work full [01:33:45] time. I do three days a week, so it’s not too bad.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s just a case of like a recorder [01:33:50] while you’re on the running machine, or I guess you’re not on the running machine.

Amber Aplin: You should get a running [01:33:55] machine.

Payman Langroudi: Go out. You’ve got wonderful countryside there.

Amber Aplin: I [01:34:00] need to do more of that, actually, um.

Payman Langroudi: A voice recorder, anyway. You know what I mean?

Amber Aplin: I [01:34:05] just use AI. I mean, I use the clinical notes, which are AI, and then stick it into AI and form [01:34:10] a letter. It doesn’t take that much time, but I still want to add a photo in and annotate that. [01:34:15] Yeah, I want to do more, more, more social media stuff. With what?

Payman Langroudi: You’re [01:34:20] too hard on yourself.

Amber Aplin: Ah, I just I can’t let go. I think just to. [01:34:25] I can’t let go. It’s really weird. I can let go because my staff have got complete autonomy and [01:34:30] I trust them completely. So I’m not controlling in the slightest. But I think for myself, I’m quite controlling [01:34:35] about everything I touch. I want to be 100% perfect. So the courses I run, I want to be [01:34:40] a best experience for the delegates. I want to do really great handouts for them. You know, the booklet [01:34:45] for them is really great, you know what I mean? I just, I can’t do anything less than [01:34:50] the very best that I can do, I guess. So it’s probably holding back a little bit because, for example, [01:34:55] the new course I want to run, there’s a lot of work to be the level [01:35:00] I want it to be at.

Payman Langroudi: The thing with courses is that the more you care, the less kind of profitable [01:35:05] it is.

Amber Aplin: It’s not for money either.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not doing it for money, but it is. It ends up costing [01:35:10] to do, to do the things you want to do. Um, that’s.

Amber Aplin: My life, though. Your say, [01:35:15] I’m not very good at business because everything is there for the patients and the staff and, you know. [01:35:20] So.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Amazing. So lovely to meet you. Thanks. Thanks for coming all the way from Scotland [01:35:25] for this.

Amber Aplin: Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it and really enjoyed it as well.

[VOICE: This [01:35:30] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where [01:35:35] you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:35:40] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [01:35:45]

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. If you got this far, you must have listened [01:35:50] to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through [01:35:55] and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some [01:36:00] value out of it.

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