[VOICE]: This [00:00:05] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you get to go [00:00:10] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:15] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:00:20]

Payman Langroudi: This podcast is brought to you by enlighten. Enlighten is an advanced [00:00:25] teeth whitening system. Join us for online training, where I’ll take you through everything [00:00:30] you need to know about how to assess a case quickly, how to use the system, how to [00:00:35] talk to patients. Because when you know you can deliver brilliant results, it’s so much easier to talk about [00:00:40] it. To book your course, which takes only an hour. It’s completely free. Visit Enlighten Online [00:00:45] Training. Now let’s get to the pod. It gives me great pleasure to welcome Nasser [00:00:50] Sayed and she’s bright. On to the podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you guys. [00:00:55] Um, Nasser is a dentist with special interest in oral surgery, sedation. And [00:01:00] I’m finding out now, um, quite an entrepreneurial spirit. Lots of practices [00:01:05] just go through how many you’ve got.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. So thank you very much for the invite. [00:01:10] It’s a pleasure to be.

Payman Langroudi: Here for coming all the.

Nasser Syed: Way. Oh no, it’s not a problem through the storm as well. So I got here. Um, [00:01:15] so we have um, two practices in partnership. Uh, and we’re buying a third currently [00:01:20] in partnership. Um, I have two on my own. Uh, and then my business partner has another four, so [00:01:25] there’s a bit of a group, uh, formulating, um, and. Yeah, [00:01:30] I like to buy another two soon as well. So. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So how clinical are you?

Nasser Syed: That’s. [00:01:35] I was very clinical up to about 2022. Um, so I [00:01:40] was nearly 5 to 6 days clinical where I was doing mainly oral surgery on a referral basis that [00:01:45] was part NHS and part private. Um, but then after that I realised I could probably [00:01:50] only do one thing really well. So I can either run the business and grow [00:01:55] that, or I can be a carry on doing the oral surgery with the implants and so on and so forth. [00:02:00] And I thought, well, no one’s going to look after the business better than I am. Um, so [00:02:05] I thought, well, and I can get a good implantologist in. So I thought, well, where [00:02:10] is my time best spent? So I thought, well, running the business. So I now [00:02:15] reduce my clinical capacity where I do a lot of training. So I train a lot of people in [00:02:20] conscious sedation. So I run a course called Manchester Sedation Course which [00:02:25] is SDC accredited. So we can train beginners as well. Um, so about [00:02:30] 2 to 3 days of my week is done with training dentists in conscious sedation which is [00:02:35] IV sedation midazolam drug only. And then I do one day a week teaching at Manchester Dental Hospital. [00:02:40] Uh, that’s my, uh, charity day, I call it, where I give back. Um, [00:02:45] so I teach undergraduates, postgraduates in the oral surgery department at University of Manchester, [00:02:50] and, uh, I really enjoy that. And then the other two, 2 [00:02:55] or 3 days, I will be between the practices. Just trying to put [00:03:00] out few fires if.

Payman Langroudi: You’re doing a lot.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, it can be quite. [00:03:05] I enjoy it. I think that’s the main thing. Um, I think if I didn’t enjoy it, I think. [00:03:10]

Payman Langroudi: Were you always this hard worker? I think something something [00:03:15] sort of.

Nasser Syed: I think I get it from my father. Um, my father was a considerable hard [00:03:20] worker. You know, came to this country in the 60s, late 60s. You know, grafted, [00:03:25] you know, got a job with Ford and then from there, then [00:03:30] opened his own business. Um, and then in the weekends would do some work [00:03:35] in the marketplace. You know, so he was always doing something. So I think growing up, that’s [00:03:40] what I saw. Uh, my brother, who’s nine years older than me, who’s Professor Rioja, [00:03:45] uh, he’s a very hard working as well. So I think it’s sort of [00:03:50] within the blood. Possibly, but, um, but mainly I enjoy it. Which which is important, [00:03:55] I think if you don’t enjoy it, it can become quite torturous [00:04:00] really. But I think if you’re enjoying it, it can be your hobby. Fun [00:04:05] time.

Payman Langroudi: Do you find, like there was a time earlier on in your career where like, I don’t know, Apicectomy [00:04:10] was was was turning you on and now now business turns you on.

Nasser Syed: Apicectomy [00:04:15] still turns you on, if I’m being honest.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. However [00:04:20] sad that is. Um. So.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, I still like to keep my hands in the oral surgery, so I, you know, [00:04:25] I get referrals from colleagues or or associates and so on and so forth. So I still like [00:04:30] to do that. But, um. It’s about managing [00:04:35] people. I don’t see it as I’m seeing myself as a businessman. I don’t see myself as an entrepreneur. I [00:04:40] see myself as so on, who can manage [00:04:45] people and get try and get the best out of people, and whether that is my associates or whether that [00:04:50] is my, um, employees. Um, I’m really interested [00:04:55] in what they want to achieve, what they want to get, and how are we going to do that together.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:05:00] then give you some top tips on that? Well, because I’m really interested in that too. [00:05:05] Okay. But I’m not executing as much as I’m interested in [00:05:10] it. Okay. Like do you have things that you do. Do you, do you sit down 1 to 1 with every member of staff every six [00:05:15] months or whatever?

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Well, if I focus on the associates. So we take on a lot of Fhd+ ones [00:05:20] at all our sites. And so these are really sort of fresh faced, um, dentists. [00:05:25] And I teach them at undergraduate level. So most of the time and I can understand by [00:05:30] the time they qualify, they probably haven’t done a lot of, of, of stuff, you know, [00:05:35] 15 extractions, maybe 1 or 2 endos. And so really they come [00:05:40] to me really wanting to get a lot of experience in all aspects of dentistry, [00:05:45] but also to be mentored. So we generally just meet up, I go [00:05:50] through what I offer and that can be Yes. Every month we’ll will have a performance [00:05:55] related meeting. So we can look at how you’re performing from a private [00:06:00] sector, from a UDA perspective, from from a performance perspective, from patient [00:06:05] complaints or whatever that may be. But then also what I’m interested in is how [00:06:10] has the month been? Have you had any ups and downs? What have you enjoyed? What have you disliked? And [00:06:15] as time goes on, you tend to find that some associates will, will, will like a certain [00:06:20] aspect of dentistry more than other aspects.

Nasser Syed: So it could be that they really like oral surgery [00:06:25] or composite bonding. Then we go. Right. Well now you start to enjoy something. Let’s see [00:06:30] how we get better at it. Because once you once you find out what you enjoy, you can now [00:06:35] excel because it now doesn’t become a job or task, it becomes merely a hobby for you. [00:06:40] So we then look at courses and our brothers well connected with people around [00:06:45] the country, so we can direct them to the right people to be taught properly. [00:06:50] And then it’s then putting that in practice. So then the team gets involved. So [00:06:55] say for example they want to do an Onlay. Well [00:07:00] they can go and see a man who’s fantastic or go and see my brother and learn how to do an onlay. [00:07:05] But now the treatment coordinator needs to be needs to ensure that that next [00:07:10] week they’ve got an onlay in their diary because the worst is you learn [00:07:15] a skill and then you haven’t done it in six months time. And then and then you’ve lost all that. [00:07:20]

Payman Langroudi: So you’re not the first to say this to me. And, and but at the same time, it’s not completely [00:07:25] obvious for practices to do that, but it makes so much sense.

Nasser Syed: Yes. [00:07:30]

Payman Langroudi: So much sense. It’s I mean, if the practice can give something back to the associate on top [00:07:35] of the usual stuff, this is amazing.

Nasser Syed: Well that’s it. I think that’s [00:07:40] what young associates want. Yeah, yeah. When you sit down with them, you know, they’re not negotiating [00:07:45] on UDA rates. They’re not negotiating on percentages. They really want to know how [00:07:50] are you going to develop their career? How are you going to make them better? They want something. Right [00:07:55] now you’ve got to then present to them what you’re going to be offering them. Because [00:08:00] there’s a shortage of dentists. Dentists and their associates have got a choice. They can [00:08:05] go to five other different practices. So why are they going to pick you up?

Payman Langroudi: So are you working [00:08:10] at the hospital? Part of that is the recruitment angle that that gives you for finding dentists.

Nasser Syed: It [00:08:15] does help. Yeah. I mean, my one day a week and I say it to my business [00:08:20] partner, you know, I give up one day a week. So it helps with recruitment. Um, because they [00:08:25] get to know me at undergraduate level.

Payman Langroudi: Plus you can pick the best guys as well.

Nasser Syed: Oh, well, [00:08:30] if they stay in Manchester, uh, that might help. Yeah. So.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:08:35] how soon can you tell? Because you’re seeing undergrads. Yeah. How soon can you tell who the stars are going to [00:08:40] be? Very early on or later? Or. And this thing that you’re saying about, [00:08:45] they get to find out what they enjoy. Yeah. How does that take? Because for me, [00:08:50] you enjoy whatever you’re good at.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So in a way, pick something, [00:08:55] anything. Pick it out of the air. Yeah. The only the only caveat I would put to that is oral surgery, because oral [00:09:00] surgery just seems like a different skill skill set, different mindset to all the rest of dentistry. [00:09:05] Yeah. But if you pick Endo, perio, ortho, any of those subjects. Yeah. 100 [00:09:10] practices I want to open or whatever. Sedation, whatever it is. Yeah. The [00:09:15] nervous patient. Yeah. Pick one and go deep into it quickly. And soon you’ll [00:09:20] enjoy it, won’t you?

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Well, how was it take. How long did you tell me? How does it take before they figure [00:09:25] it out? What they enjoy before they start going into it?

Nasser Syed: So, um, I [00:09:30] think that some people pick a speciality that they [00:09:35] want to develop their career into for sometimes the wrong reason. So you have people [00:09:40] who will join us and go and they know I do implants and they’ll go, oh, I want to be an implantologist. [00:09:45] So I go, okay, tell me about. What does an Implantologist do? Tell me the skill set [00:09:50] required and they get stumped. They don’t have an answer to that question, so they haven’t. They haven’t looked [00:09:55] into it. But what they see is maybe price tags, you know, whatever and [00:10:00] so on and so forth. So I’m not interested in that side I’m interested [00:10:05] in. Look, I need you to do lots of everything to start off with because only and only [00:10:10] then will you start to think, oh, I really enjoy that. And I say, look, you’ll get a feeling [00:10:15] when you see your day list the next day and you’ll see a certain treatment in there, and it will put a smile on [00:10:20] your face and then you go then that’s a feeling that I want to develop. To [00:10:25] answer your question about the undergraduates, I get undergraduates from fourth year, so I don’t get anyone [00:10:30] younger.

Nasser Syed: But why? Why? I want to see from someone who [00:10:35] I think I can develop is somewhere. You tell them what to do. They listen, [00:10:40] they reflect, and they act on it. Okay, so if I tell them how to use a cupola [00:10:45] and to extract that operates, and I give them the technique. The ones [00:10:50] that really I can see that could go far, or I believe I could, [00:10:55] I could take him to a, you know, a higher places when they, they [00:11:00] take that on and I see them do it and there’s a lot of time you tell them how to use it and [00:11:05] they’ve, they’ve either not digested that information and they don’t effectively [00:11:10] perform it. And you think, well, you’ve not listened to what I’ve just said. So then you could say it twice or a third [00:11:15] time or a fourth time, and then you’d get into a point where they’re still not doing what you can say. So the, the, [00:11:20] the student who picks that up really quickly and can act on it, you think. Right. [00:11:25] Yeah. You’re you’re listening, you’re reflecting and you’re acting. And I think I can do something with that.

Payman Langroudi: Some people are more [00:11:30] coachable than others. Right. But you’re saying that’s a key thing? Coachability is [00:11:35] a key thing. The only one thing I’d say is there’s a lot of people who in university are, you [00:11:40] know, not the most serious people. And then when they start working, they [00:11:45] suddenly switch.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I get that. You see that? And by the way, the other way around as well, people who are [00:11:50] very good in university and then come to work and not very good. Yeah. They like institutions [00:11:55] and rules and things like that. That’s the only caveat.

Nasser Syed: No. Absolutely. And, you know, [00:12:00] it’s not a proven fast rule. You know, it depends.

Payman Langroudi: But you’ve been doing it for a while. So you kind of know. [00:12:05]

Nasser Syed: Yes. Yeah. And you can sort of pick it up. And you, you know.

Payman Langroudi: How long does [00:12:10] it take before they figure out what they like.

Nasser Syed: So that also depends. That can be that can vary. [00:12:15]

Payman Langroudi: A couple of years longer.

Nasser Syed: I’ve had dentists who joined me at PhD plus one and they go, I know what I want to [00:12:20] be. You know, I want to be a super duper prosthodontist. Right. And they are [00:12:25] switched on and they’re booked on the right courses and they’ve gone to see the right people.

Payman Langroudi: That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. [00:12:30] Just pick something. Go. Yeah. I’m even saying at dental school pick something.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, absolutely. [00:12:35] But I would say out of all the associates I meet, 90% of [00:12:40] them are going, I don’t know, I don’t I don’t know, right?

Payman Langroudi: But the advice people give here [00:12:45] is do five years of NHS. Get [00:12:50] your mileage on the NHS, get your 10,000 hours and your experience. [00:12:55] And I just see that as a, as a D sort of skilling period. [00:13:00] In a way you learn how to do things quickly and all that. Yeah. But that’s [00:13:05] the advice, right? Do a few years on the NHS and figure out what you like and then start. And [00:13:10] my my point. No, just just go say Endo in the third [00:13:15] year of dental school. Start seeing endo wherever you look. Go on courses on [00:13:20] Endo by the fourth and fifth year of dental school. Go to America for your for your whatever. [00:13:25] Uh, elective on endo with the world’s best endodontist. Come [00:13:30] straight back and go on an endo program and come out as an endodontist, having done no fillings [00:13:35] at all. Yeah. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Nasser Syed: No there’s not.

Payman Langroudi: And that is the American way, by [00:13:40] the way. Like, I know people who’ve gone from here qualified the very next day. Got into [00:13:45] pros program in Harvard. Okay. Yeah. Without even doing a day of dentistry.

Nasser Syed: Risky, [00:13:50] though, right?

Payman Langroudi: No. Don’t worry. At the end of his program in Harvard, they’ll make him a safe prosthodontist. [00:13:55]

Nasser Syed: I get that, but is it is risky.

Payman Langroudi: And it might have been the wrong move. Yes, [00:14:00] but this guy’s been focusing on it for three years already.

Nasser Syed: And there is a small percentage [00:14:05] of people who are that focussed and know what they want. Right. But I would say the majority don’t. [00:14:10] And I think when you say sort of going into most of our practices are have an NHS contract. [00:14:15] So they, so we, we tell them right. Exactly what you say, come in and do some [00:14:20] NHS dentistry. But I don’t have the thing about they have to [00:14:25] be quick and they have to get loads of udas. I keep them on a very low UDA target and to be fair, [00:14:30] they ask for not many udas.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s time.

Nasser Syed: It’s time. Look, [00:14:35] every patient that comes through your door is an opportunity. You spend time [00:14:40] with them, you educate them. And that might be through scans, photos, X-rays. [00:14:45] And so every one of our surgeries have a big, massive TV screen in front of the [00:14:50] front of the chair. And these are predominantly NHS practices. But the thought [00:14:55] process is they come in and you educate them about the problem and you tell them the solution, [00:15:00] and that takes time. That doesn’t take five minutes, that doesn’t take ten minutes. I’m sorry. So [00:15:05] yes, you’re not going to do many udas, but at least you’re going to start to practice dentistry in the way [00:15:10] I think it should be practised. Right. Um, and so in that way, we, we don’t we have [00:15:15] very large practices. So there we have 112 surgeries. So really [00:15:20] we can reduce the amount of udas each surgery has to perform to meet contracts. So that’s how we [00:15:25] sort of look at it like that.

Payman Langroudi: So then with all of that in mind, [00:15:30] how has your career progressed into these practices? [00:15:35]

Chez Bright: In a pretty big way. So, um, so I [00:15:40] joined NASA two years ago, but before I joined NASA, um, I was a TCO [00:15:45] and a business development for a smaller practice. So I’d kind of reached my scope [00:15:50] because it was only a small practice, and it was just. Yeah, there wasn’t anything else to do. Um, [00:15:55] NASA obviously has many, many projects, so his [00:16:00] brain is like a minefield. Um, but it’s really interesting and I’ve [00:16:05] learned so much just in a short space of time, and there’s just so many different [00:16:10] projects to sort of get stuck into.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re working on several of his [00:16:15] projects?

Chez Bright: Yeah, yeah, NASA keeps me busy. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: It’s like my right [00:16:20] hand, uh, lady too. Yeah. So she, uh, she she she joined me two years [00:16:25] ago. I think I was at a point where, um, so my business partner [00:16:30] had, um, two pass at the time, and, uh, and [00:16:35] I didn’t have one, uh, and he just sat me down and he goes, what are you doing? And I said, I [00:16:40] don’t feel like I need one. He goes, you do. And then he said, why? What’s [00:16:45] stopping you? And I thought, well, look, it’s the extra cost. I’ve got to pay this and I’ve got to pay that. He goes, he just said to me, he [00:16:50] goes, do you believe in yourself? And I said, and I just thought and reflect. [00:16:55] And I thought, actually, he’s got a point. If I believe myself, I’d need these people around me. [00:17:00] So I said, yeah, nervously said, yeah. So. And then from that point, [00:17:05] I’ve just, uh, you know, uh, I’ve put an advert out. We met, we sort of [00:17:10] got on. Um, I think that’s a really important feature, just being able to get on, have a conversation. Um, [00:17:15] and then, yeah, it’s two years later, we’ve done several other things, and I don’t think I would have [00:17:20] been able to achieve it without her.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s go through that process then. You know, let’s say there’s a new project. [00:17:25] Yeah. What should we call it? One of the practices you want to introduce [00:17:30] SEO services into it, let’s say.

Nasser Syed: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And what do you say how [00:17:35] often do you check in? I mean, have you got a process or is it [00:17:40] something that you sit down for a coffee and a dinner and explain it to her, and then let her get on with it? [00:17:45] Yeah. Is that kind of more.

Nasser Syed: It is. It is like that. So we’ll I’ll have an idea and [00:17:50] it might even be loose in my head. I haven’t put it together. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Ideas are like that. [00:17:55]

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Absolutely. And it’s a bit of mish mash. And then really I’ll sit down with, uh, [00:18:00] with Ches and I’ve got my practice manager called Artie, and I’ll just. I’ll [00:18:05] just talk it out. Yeah. Right. And at any point in the.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of like a brainstorming. [00:18:10]

Nasser Syed: Brainstorm, I.

Payman Langroudi: And they input their bits.

Nasser Syed: I like whiteboards. Yeah. Right. So I’ll [00:18:15] have an all practice with whiteboards everywhere. So and I’ll start writing things off and [00:18:20] I’ll start spider diagramming and I’ll go add in whenever, whenever. And I’m really keen to get [00:18:25] their opinion. Um, and because it’s going to be things that I have not thought about. Yeah. And then we’ll [00:18:30] sort of come out, we’ll come out with it. And I think come out of it. We come out with a list of tasks, and [00:18:35] by the end of that meeting, we’ve got at least 1 to 4, 1 to 5, whatever it may be. Um, and, [00:18:40] and then we sort of build it from there, and then. Yeah, I do then leave them quite independent at that point, [00:18:45] uh, they can check in with check in with me and go, look, I’m doing this, I’m doing that. [00:18:50] And and I might ask the question where we’re up to with this, but otherwise I sort of [00:18:55] like to leave them to it. So they’ve got that freedom.

Payman Langroudi: See? Look, that’s what [00:19:00] I do. Yeah. Same thing, but I feel like I’m bad at it. Yeah. My business partner, he’s [00:19:05] very process orientated. Yeah. Okay. So he’ll say this is what success looks like. [00:19:10] Okay. These are the milestones towards success. Yeah. Um, when will [00:19:15] we get to milestone one. Let’s let’s make them two week periods. Yeah. [00:19:20] Then they’ll have a sprint to milestone one. At the end of milestone one they’ll meet and then they’ll say okay, milestone [00:19:25] two is another two week sprint. And along the way he incorporates like changes [00:19:30] in the thing and. Yeah. And and then you know by the fourth week they’ve they’ve done [00:19:35] so much going and the person knows what success looks like. I think with me and you, [00:19:40] our goals are too lofty. Yeah. Yeah. I want to do a massive first time ever [00:19:45] event in London. Yeah. That’s a lofty goal. Yeah. My partner keeps these things quite small. [00:19:50] Quite easy. Yeah. But then he. He does go forward along the way. [00:19:55] But the thing is, you’ve got to turn up to those meetings yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And of course [00:20:00] you do. Yes. Um, and just that for me, is a nightmare. Yeah. [00:20:05] Just turning up to that meeting. I hate meetings. Yeah.

[ALL]: Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. [00:20:10]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Different types of brains. Yeah. Is your is your other partner much more sort of process orientated, organised [00:20:15] guy like.

Nasser Syed: Um, I wouldn’t say it was organised.

[ALL]: Um.

Nasser Syed: You’d [00:20:20] hate me for saying that, but. Yeah, I sort of have to drag them along sometimes. Um, I [00:20:25] think he’s probably a bit more process driven than I am. I can’t be like that. I don’t think [00:20:30] my brain operates in that way. Um, and I, I would, I would actually like a bit [00:20:35] of that. You know what you just said there? I’d love a bit of that, because that I think sometimes [00:20:40] our projects can sometimes slow with no defined dates and so on and so forth. [00:20:45] And you think, where are we up to with that? And then another idea comes into our heads and then we’ll start, we’ll [00:20:50] start going into another.

Payman Langroudi: Thing is the funny thing is though for putting in [00:20:55] three implants. Yeah, you’ve got a complete process that you stick to step by step [00:21:00] by step by step. Yeah. But for this other stuff, yeah.

Chez Bright: Why wouldn’t you have that routine.

Payman Langroudi: In [00:21:05] place for. But I totally get it, man. I totally get it. I was the same kind of dentist. I wouldn’t do [00:21:10] dentistry like that. Yeah, because you can’t do that.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah. [00:21:15] Things will go wrong pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Which of these hats do you like the [00:21:20] most? Or do you love the fact that you’re doing so much different stuff all the time?

Nasser Syed: I do like that. I do like [00:21:25] the variety of what I do now, I don’t think I think the idea of going back [00:21:30] to be a dentist and go back to one surgery and a list of patients. I think, [00:21:35] um, I would do it if I need to do it. So of all my plans, go to pot.

[ALL]: Yeah. [00:21:40]

Nasser Syed: Um, and, uh, have to put the house on on, on on sale then. [00:21:45] Yeah. I’m ready to lift up my sleeves and get on and do some dentistry, but I think, um, I [00:21:50] really enjoy what I do now. I my, my week varies, my [00:21:55] days vary. Um, I can be in one place and then have to be in another place. [00:22:00] Um, and I enjoy it. I enjoy that element of it.

Payman Langroudi: You still in Liverpool? [00:22:05]

Nasser Syed: Still in Liverpool. Born, born and raised in Liverpool. Scouser. Um. [00:22:10] And yeah, stayed stayed at home during university, which I loved.

Payman Langroudi: Are you older than your brother? [00:22:15]

Nasser Syed: No, my brother’s nine years older than me.

Payman Langroudi: Nine years.

[ALL]: Old. Yeah. So yeah. I’ll [00:22:20] take that as a compliment. I [00:22:25] love that, actually. Yeah. If he’s.

Payman Langroudi: So what [00:22:30] was it about your house that made like, you guys not only become dentists, but also like dentists [00:22:35] with an interest. Your brothers. One of the country’s leaders on occlusion. You’re very [00:22:40] good at. You know, the bits that you’re doing.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Was it. Was it a house of excellence? Was it was [00:22:45] it like there was no choice but to be good at everything?

[ALL]: No.

Nasser Syed: Not necessarily. I wouldn’t [00:22:50] say that. I think I think, you know, it was a traditional Asian household. You know, your [00:22:55] parents wanted you to be a doctor, dentist or a lawyer.

[ALL]: So have.

Payman Langroudi: You got kids, by.

[ALL]: The way? [00:23:00] Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Have you told them to become doctors and dentists?

Nasser Syed: Um, I’ve got two boys, uh, 15 and 13. My. [00:23:05] My eldest is doing GCSEs at the moment. Um, I’d like him to [00:23:10] do dentistry because I. I’ve enjoyed it, but I don’t think that’s fair. [00:23:15] Um, so he’s got freedom. But, um, I think what he [00:23:20] says to me, he wants to be a dentist, but I don’t know whether that’s something he wants me to. He’s saying something [00:23:25] I want to hear. So there’s still years, Yes, I mean 15. I mean, what do you know, 15? [00:23:30]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. My daughter is 16, and we’re kind of very gently pushing her to become [00:23:35] a dentist.

Nasser Syed: Okay, interesting.

Payman Langroudi: Because both of us are dentists and and just be a shame if [00:23:40] one of our kids doesn’t. Yeah. You know, they get massive advantages.

Nasser Syed: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: Um, at [00:23:45] the same time, this notion. I hear a lot of people in this room sit here and tell me, yeah, the kid can do whatever they like, but [00:23:50] most of the time they haven’t got any idea.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, yeah. They need guidance. They need need [00:23:55] to be directed in a certain way. And you’re right. A second generation in the same field, they [00:24:00] can really they can really build on and take it to another level and you’ll, you’ll, you know, you’ve [00:24:05] seen people who are second generation dentists or third generation, you know, they can take their business [00:24:10] to a different level.

Payman Langroudi: At the same time. My daughter’s 16, right. So by the time she becomes dentists, we’re [00:24:15] talking eight years time.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Eight years time, man. [00:24:20] Robots are.

[ALL]: Gonna be.

Payman Langroudi: Like, there’s gonna be a totally different world. Yeah, it [00:24:25] really is. Have you seen those robots with their hands? They’re like making other robots.

[ALL]: Yeah. Yeah. [00:24:30]

Payman Langroudi: And imagine, with the ChatGPT of eight years time in its head. Yeah.

Chez Bright: We’re [00:24:35] talking about this before, wasn’t we? About the world of AI and how sort of dominant [00:24:40] it is now?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Chez Bright: Um, and we were just saying that, like, we’re kind of feeding. [00:24:45] How old are you? Um. 38.

Payman Langroudi: So you remember you just about [00:24:50] the 2001.com bubble?

Chez Bright: Um, yeah. [00:24:55]

Payman Langroudi: Just about. You were like you were a child, but I remember you were younger than me. Yeah, I [00:25:00] remember it. It was. It was just the exact same thing. Yeah. Any company that had.com written on [00:25:05] the end of it was, was a massive, like, investment thing. Everyone was buying their [00:25:10] shares and everything and then most of them went bust. But then when it happened, [00:25:15] those six or 8 or 10, that really made it, it was even bigger than [00:25:20] we thought it was going to be. Right. So I think we’re in that phase of AI. That [00:25:25] it’s anything that says AI investors are in. Everyone’s in. Um, but [00:25:30] when it really comes, like, I don’t know, man, it’s scary. I think even they [00:25:35] themselves are scared of it. The people making it are scared of it.

Nasser Syed: And I think you can see why. I mean, [00:25:40] really, um, and we were saying this, you know, is it really going to dumb [00:25:45] down the population?

Payman Langroudi: No, no, no, I don’t think that. I don’t think that what I think is that, you know, humanity’s [00:25:50] in the end, constantly trying to sort of do each other in, get each other’s resources. [00:25:55] Yeah. And now this race to make the best AI is really a race [00:26:00] to dominate other countries. Yeah. Yeah. So that [00:26:05] risk, it’s like, you know, like the attack. Certainly we’ll all be paying £200 [00:26:10] a month for AI protection for our house.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know, because, you know, it’s something I could [00:26:15] come and destroy you. The one. The one that makes the the the real [00:26:20] super brain. He’s the one going to be charging us £300 a month for security.

[ALL]: Yeah, [00:26:25] yeah, that’s a good business, isn’t it? Yeah.

Chez Bright: You’ve just given him another [00:26:30] idea.

[ALL]: Yeah. No.

Payman Langroudi: No, but, but but you know, I’ve been discussing with my team [00:26:35] see these pictures that you can see here.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: These are humans. Yeah. These are pictures [00:26:40] of people. Models. Yeah. There was a creative director. One of the world’s top photographers [00:26:45] took the pictures. We had to get a studio to rent the studio, the hair and makeup, [00:26:50] clothes, the all the different types of creatives. Yeah, yeah, it was a massive [00:26:55] cost and hassle. Then I said to my team, obviously we’re never going to have to [00:27:00] do this again. And all of them were like, no, no, no, no, we’ve got to AI, you can tell [00:27:05] and all this sort of thing.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I told my team, listen man, it’s not AI is not going to take your job, [00:27:10] but someone who knows AI is going to that. That is real. Yeah, yeah. And then the jobs [00:27:15] that will be in proper trouble are the ones where there’s no elasticity of demand. [00:27:20] Yeah, yeah. So something that can be done. My brother’s a radiologist. Ai can read [00:27:25] X-rays, but they’re asking for a thousand times more X-rays now because they can do them [00:27:30] more quickly. Yeah. So that’s just a growing thing. Yeah, but if your job is to sit [00:27:35] and answer the phone or be in front of a computer doing a task, that demand [00:27:40] side isn’t going to increase.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re an all sorts of trouble.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And what’s going [00:27:45] to happen in the future? It’s very, very difficult to think about as far as jobs.

[ALL]: It is.

Nasser Syed: Um, [00:27:50] I’d like to think that she’s maybe slightly protected to a certain degree. Maybe it takes a little [00:27:55] bit longer before AI take over it.

[ALL]: But I.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t think a lot. Yeah, there’s something for our kids. [00:28:00] Yes. Yeah. In eight, ten years time.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: There will be a treatment coordinator type person. [00:28:05] Yeah, and a machine. And [00:28:10] my brother says it’s amazing in radiology right now because the AI is reading the scan. Yeah, but from the regulatory perspective, [00:28:15] the doctor has to give it the okay, okay. So he’s saying it’s amazing because you’re getting [00:28:20] paid a lot more because you’re doing you’re okaying a lot more scans because the AI is reading the main bit of the scan, [00:28:25] you’re not going to miss things.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And the AI is learning each time it reads a scan, right? So it’s [00:28:30] getting better and.

[ALL]: Better and better. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: It’s crazy.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: I [00:28:35] don’t think I’d ask my kid to be a radiologist though, but I think.

[ALL]: But yeah, but otherwise. [00:28:40]

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Um, yeah. I think, you know, you build something, you want to pass it on, you want to preserve [00:28:45] it. Um, and so, yeah, it would be nice, like your daughter. My son. It would be nice for them. [00:28:50]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, okay. So tell me that. So is that what you’re trying to do? You haven’t. You’re not thinking of [00:28:55] selling this business and.

[ALL]: No, I.

Nasser Syed: Don’t take any card off [00:29:00] the table. Yeah. Um, so, you know, it may get to the point that I still sell the businesses, [00:29:05] and I, you know, if he is a dentist, I can help him. I can help him open one. [00:29:10] I’d be more keen on that. To be fair, he can use all my contacts know how and experience. [00:29:15] But whether someone wants to inherit a business or whether they want to [00:29:20] do it their own way. I’d like to think he’d have his own one, his own freedom of doing it his way. And [00:29:25] I could certainly help him with that. But but otherwise, to give it to him maybe [00:29:30] a little bit too easy for him. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Do you know Anushka? Uh, um. [00:29:35]

[ALL]: Yes. Uh.

Nasser Syed: The, um. Corporate. [00:29:40]

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The mirror.

[ALL]: Mirror? Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: She wants to. She’s a third 42 [00:29:45] practices.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And she wants to at 50. Stop and give it to her children. [00:29:50]

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So none of them are. None of them are dentists.

Nasser Syed: Is [00:29:55] one of them.

Payman Langroudi: Was in dental school. Yeah.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one’s.

Nasser Syed: Getting.

[ALL]: Better, but. [00:30:00]

Payman Langroudi: No, but what I’m saying she completely ruled out selling the business.

[ALL]: Really?

Payman Langroudi: She, you know, [00:30:05] she has that succession plan.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re not at that level.

[ALL]: No. Well. [00:30:10]

Nasser Syed: Well we’re not at that sort of numbers.

[ALL]: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: But that, that level of thinking like that, you definitely want [00:30:15] to sell or you definitely want to pass it on?

[ALL]: No.

Nasser Syed: No, no. Definite in anything. [00:30:20] Uh, no cards off the table. So it may be that, you know, you don’t know what’s going [00:30:25] to happen, but, um, my son might want one particular practice, or we. He might not. [00:30:30] I’m. I be my personal, um, opinion would be. I’d like to think [00:30:35] he could. He could do something on his own with my support and help. So, um, set [00:30:40] him up something like a squat or something like that, but, um, but, yeah, rather than just passing [00:30:45] him the keys over, I’m sure would shy away.

[ALL]: Too easy. It is, it is. [00:30:50]

Nasser Syed: And also, you know, um, you want to realise all your hard work that you’ve put in as [00:30:55] well. And, um, sometimes you need to sell to do that. Um.

[ALL]: Yeah. [00:31:00]

Nasser Syed: And then from there then with that, you can help your children [00:31:05] in different ways.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about the sedation course.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: So the sedation [00:31:10] course I set up in 2015, um, it was just at the time when the new [00:31:15] ISO standards came out. So it was it was probably awful timing to set up [00:31:20] a sedation course, to be fair. Um, but we we set it up. I saw I was doing [00:31:25] a lot of sedation, so I was doing about 20 sedations a week, uh, in secondary and [00:31:30] primary care. So I was, I was getting through some significant numbers and I, you know, I was, [00:31:35] I was, I was good at it. Um, and I was teaching at the dental hospital at the time, um, [00:31:40] and I thought, well, um, why not just think about setting up? Of course, because the [00:31:45] nearest course was, I think was in Yorkshire. There was one um, there was sort of [00:31:50] something in Liverpool at the time, but there was certainly nothing in Manchester.

[ALL]: So.

Nasser Syed: Um, [00:31:55] we set it up. We went through the application of getting it accredited through the stack. [00:32:00] Uh, that was a bit of a rigmarole. They lost my application first time round. I [00:32:05] had to ring them a few months later. They then, um, you know, within six months. So thankfully, [00:32:10] I got accredited. And then every six months, we take on a cohort [00:32:15] of dentists and dental nurses. Uh, and that can be the beginners, [00:32:20] completely new to sedation. And then we train to spend six months training [00:32:25] them to an independent practitioner stage.

Payman Langroudi: Um, how many times a month?

Nasser Syed: So [00:32:30] they the course will consist of, uh, if you’re a complete beginner, it [00:32:35] will consist of five, five days. Uh, one day is in top dental school in Manchester [00:32:40] called Mondak. It’s a lovely lecture facility. Um, and we’ll do all the theory the [00:32:45] second day they come and see me out in practice and we book in live consultations. Because consultation [00:32:50] is key. It’s how you save your patients out. So the patients that you’re willing to treat [00:32:55] and the willing patients you’re not willing to treat. But more importantly, why? Why are you willing why are you not willing? And [00:33:00] that’s what we’re trying to get across. And also it’s the experience. You’ve got the team supporting [00:33:05] you and the practice you’re in. It’s not just about you. It’s got to be you. You know, there’s certain [00:33:10] sedations that I will do in certain settings, but I wouldn’t do it in other settings. But I’m the constant.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:33:15] are we talking inhalation solution as well as IV?

Nasser Syed: This is all intravenous sedation with single drug. Yeah [00:33:20] with single drug inhalation. Sedation I did do that as a senior house officer. Um, [00:33:25] many years ago. I think I inhaled more than nitrous oxide inhalation. I [00:33:30] came up with this really bad headache by the end of the day. Um, and, [00:33:35] you know, it’s it’s quite, um, hypnotic and it’s suggestive, and there’s a whole story [00:33:40] that you have to give with it. Um, where?

Payman Langroudi: Give me the typical avatar of the delegate [00:33:45] and the patient. So the type of delegate that comes, are they looking to [00:33:50] sedate and treat the same patient, or are they looking to go around helping other dentists for sedation? [00:33:55]

Nasser Syed: Um, they mainly come to treat their own patients.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s like an [00:34:00] implantologist or something. He wants to learn that.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, a lot of them are implantologists. So they’ll, [00:34:05] they’ll, they’ll come to me knowing that they’ve, they’ve met patients where local anaesthetic is just [00:34:10] not good enough. Yeah. Uh, and rather than the hassle of trying to find a, you know, installation [00:34:15] just to come to your practice, which is a hassle, there’s very few of them are about. Yeah. Um, they [00:34:20] thought, well, I might as well get trained in it myself. But, you know, there’s certain cases that where you still [00:34:25] have to bring a separate sedationist, you know? So, um, yes, the majority of cases they can be a sedation [00:34:30] operator, but sometimes you just have to be an operator and bring a separate sedationist. [00:34:35] And then we also get that across during the course as well. So um, by the second day they’ve [00:34:40] done the consultation and then they spend three days with me where I get through 20 cases. [00:34:45] So I supply all the cases. The all patients that are from our practices, um, [00:34:50] generally need oral surgery procedures because that’s what I do. And, um, they come in and [00:34:55] it’s all prepped for them. They, they do about seven per day and they’ll leave about 2021 [00:35:00] cases by the end of three days.

Payman Langroudi: And you’re there. So it’s all cool.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Well I’m mentoring through the whole [00:35:05] case. So there’s a lot of we do a lot of reflection after each case.

Payman Langroudi: And so for five days [00:35:10] you’re trained.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s good.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, it’s quite efficient. It costs, [00:35:15] um. It costs for the full five days. It’s just a little over £6,000. [00:35:20] Yeah, yeah, but it’s a [00:35:25] supply. Supplying the cases is the hardest thing about the course because you’re getting 20 patients [00:35:30] per day. Per delegate. Yeah. Um, you know, thankfully I’ve got another team, um, that, [00:35:35] that run the course, which is actually led by my sister. Um, she runs the sedation [00:35:40] course for me. She’s a dental nurse. Um, so she’s, uh, [00:35:45] she’s worked with me in rehab for years. Okay. Um, and so it was a complete no brainer when [00:35:50] she, um, wanted to help support the course. So she she runs it. So she’s [00:35:55] the contact person. All the dentists contact her.

Payman Langroudi: And two days a week, you’re busy on that? [00:36:00]

Nasser Syed: Two days a week? Yeah. Yeah. It’s usually Friday. Saturday.

Nasser Syed: Because a lot of people don’t want to take time out of their working [00:36:05] week. So they’ll come and see me on a Saturday.

Payman Langroudi: So, look, just I’m. You don’t have to answer [00:36:10] this question here, but what’s your motivation for doing this?

Nasser Syed: I [00:36:15] enjoy teaching, I enjoy taking someone from [00:36:20] not having experience with something to someone who’s competent. [00:36:25]

Payman Langroudi: Teaching is fun. Teaching is fun.

Nasser Syed: And the variety of people that you meet. [00:36:30] Yeah. You know, I’ve met people on the course that, you know, they’ve they’re, [00:36:35] you know, cryptocurrency traders. Yeah. Um, and, [00:36:40] and so you’ll end up talking to them and you’ll end up learning a lot, a lot of stuff from them. You know, I’m teaching you [00:36:45] sedation, but you’re giving me so much in return, and it’s so much fun that it’s the.

Payman Langroudi: Plus [00:36:50] their implant guys. So you’re networking on that side, right? You’re, you know, you’re learning from each other.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:36:55] That’s it. We can talk about cases. Um, a lot of them want some surgery experience as well. [00:37:00] So, you know, when they’re actually doing the cases it could be an impacted wisdom tooth that’s in, you know, and they go [00:37:05] well how do you tackle that. And then we’ll go through that as well. So yes, you’re getting the sedation experience. But [00:37:10] we can we can do some flap designs, we can do some bone removal, we can do some sectioning. And [00:37:15] so they get that aspect of it as well, which I think they really enjoy. But if a if a delegate comes to me and goes, [00:37:20] look, I only want to focus on the sedation. You do the surgery, that’s cool as well. But if they go look, I wouldn’t [00:37:25] mind getting my hands a bit dirty as well while I’m here. I’m happy with that. So it can be [00:37:30] sort of a combination training session as well.

Payman Langroudi: So as if you’re not [00:37:35] busy enough, you then come out with this idea of sort of renting out [00:37:40] Dental rooms to sort of super associates.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:37:45] So, um.

Payman Langroudi: What’s it called? Tell me the.

Nasser Syed: Name. It’s called hire a dental [00:37:50] surgery. Com so, so we’ve abbreviated [00:37:55] it to HDS. Um, so when we talk about it, we say HDS, don’t we share? [00:38:00] It’s a dental surgery. Com.

Payman Langroudi: We buy any car. That’s that [00:38:05] method of marketing.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. Um. Which I realise you couldn’t sort of paint or you couldn’t [00:38:10] trademark, but, uh. Um, but anyway.

Payman Langroudi: So there’s a building.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:38:15] So we’ve purchased a practice. Um, we purchased a practice in Hale Village in Cheshire. Uh, [00:38:20] so a really lovely area of the world. And it’s a force. It’s going to be a [00:38:25] force surgery practice. It’s two surgeries currently, but we’re doing some building work. It’s going to be for surgery [00:38:30] practice. It’s going to have cbct. It’s going to have intraoral scanners. It’s going to have a microscope. It’s going to have, uh, [00:38:35] you know, whatever you, wherever you need. Um, and really, it’s for [00:38:40] the idea for those, as you said, you call them super associates, for those associates who are able to [00:38:45] accrue their own patients. Right. They’ve got a good social media following Facebook, Instagram, [00:38:50] TikTok, whatever it may be. And they need a site, right. So what they’re doing currently possibly [00:38:55] is they’re going back to their principle led practice and they’re giving a significant portion percentage [00:39:00] away. Um, but really they just need a facility and they may not want to own a practice. [00:39:05] They may not want to have the headache of owning a practice and all the HR issues, hiring, [00:39:10] compliance or everything that goes with running a practice. Uh, they just want to focus [00:39:15] on their dentistry. And so what we what we thought was, well, we’ll give them a facility. So it would be for [00:39:20] surgeries that they can warm surgery, they can hire out, they can bring their patients to that surgery. [00:39:25] They can treat their patients, they can take their own payments, and they just pay for a fee for hiring. [00:39:30]

Payman Langroudi: And it’s the idea that the the term can be how short? Like, how can I hire it [00:39:35] for a day?

Nasser Syed: Yeah, you can hire it for a session.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, nice.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. So you can do an am [00:39:40] PM session. You can do a full day. You can do multiple bookings. You can do a weekend booking. [00:39:45] You can do an evening booking. So there’s real flexibility. And also I’m not interested in buying [00:39:50] credits. You know they have to buy upfront ten credits and use it. I’m not interested in that. Whenever [00:39:55] you want it, use it. You know it’s there for you. So you you pay [00:40:00] for when you you’ve got a patient that you know you’re doing composite bonding, or you’re doing full arch implant [00:40:05] work and you’ve got a patient sitting there, you know you’re going to turn over a significant profit, but you need a [00:40:10] facility. Well, go and hire it. So you’ll. You’ll go on the website and you can do it all online. Uh, [00:40:15] there is a bit of onboarding that needs to be done. So obviously there’s going to be some compliance checks that [00:40:20] you’ll need to go through. But we’ve we’re we’re in the process of finalising.

Payman Langroudi: That the [00:40:25] sort of regulatory nightmare of it. What hoops have you had to jump through to sort of figure [00:40:30] that out. Like the CQC bit.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. So we got a QC registration [00:40:35] and our, our statement of purpose states of exactly how we’re going to utilise the surgery. [00:40:40] So they’re well aware that um, that people are going to reside with [00:40:45] on with our, within our CQC registration. But if that is the case then there’s [00:40:50] certain things that we’re going to have to do. So we’re going to have to perform audits and we’re going to have to do checks, and they’re going to have to do [00:40:55] certain things. And as long as they’re willing to do that, then they can reside within our CQC registration. If [00:41:00] they get to a point where they’re that super duper dentist and they’re accumulating. [00:41:05] You know, 4 or 5 days a week, patients of the and they’re doing lots. I would probably [00:41:10] personally recommend them to get their own CQC registration at that point. I think that that makes sense. And [00:41:15] we can also help with that if they need if they need that. Um, but in within [00:41:20] they can reside within our CQC registration and we have got that approved.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:41:25] you’ve done your sums right to make this work and to undercut existing [00:41:30] practices, you’re going to have to have a rate of it being filled up. Right. [00:41:35]

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And and so your, your challenge now is to get people to take [00:41:40] this on.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Right. So so I mean are you clear on that. How [00:41:45] how how full it has to be. But I’m not saying tell me but yeah.

[ALL]: No, we are we’re clear. We’re [00:41:50] clear on that. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And it’s not as much as you would think, to be fair.

[ALL]: Um, you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Charging a lot [00:41:55] per hour.

Nasser Syed: No. Well, we’re charging £500, uh, for a full day.

Payman Langroudi: For [00:42:00] full day.

Nasser Syed: Session, now £300 for a session. Um, we’re trying to keep [00:42:05] this quite economical. Um, I mean, the associates can bring will bring their own equipment because these composite [00:42:10] bonding guys and these implant guys, they bring their own stuff, right? They know. They know what composite they like, and they [00:42:15] know what implants they want to use. I’m not I’m not here to to to supply any of that stuff.

Payman Langroudi: But are you supplying basic [00:42:20] composites and all that we’re supplying?

Nasser Syed: We’ve got a list of, of an inventory of what [00:42:25] we’re supplying. But it’s basic stuff. You know, Mirror Pro, you know, bibs, glasses, you [00:42:30] know, materials. Uh, materials. No no no no no. Because again, I’m not [00:42:35] second guessing what people want.

[ALL]: Um, and.

Payman Langroudi: Are there any other value adds that you’re providing?

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:42:40] So they can if they wanted to store, uh, equipment at the practice, [00:42:45] then they could we provide facility for that. So if they’re using our facility 2 or 3 times a day and [00:42:50] they are 2 or 3 times a week, and they sick and tired of bringing back and forth equipment, you know, they can store [00:42:55] the use of the cbct is obviously chargeable. Then they will have no [00:43:00] motor, will have a surgical motor, will have a microscope, and these are little add ons that they’ll [00:43:05] have to pay for depending on how long they want it, session or full day.

Payman Langroudi: Nothing around. Sort of, uh, [00:43:10] follow up or payments or. No no no no [00:43:15] no reception TCO type support.

[ALL]: No not not yet, not yet.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:43:20] We’re just trying with the idea off the ground. Uh, and then from there, yeah, these things, you [00:43:25] know, if our clients are asking for it, then I’m happy to look into it. Um, but it [00:43:30] may be that they want to deal with a lot of these issues themselves. Yeah, these [00:43:35] are all presumptions they’re making. And I’ve got to prove these presumptions.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But I think it’s it’s probably [00:43:40] clear I don’t know for sure, but I reckon every town will [00:43:45] end up with depending on size of the town. Yeah. Town. Town like Manchester [00:43:50] like South Manchester will end up with at least two of these one, one [00:43:55] basic one and one sort of higher end one.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Because [00:44:00] there is space for a higher end one as well where they give you other services, you know, like follow up your patients treatment [00:44:05] plans and, and all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone who wants to be the dentist only.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. [00:44:10]

Payman Langroudi: Um, yeah, I think so now. But whether whether you’re going to be that guy or [00:44:15] not, or whether you’re just happy to do one that works or whatever it is. Yeah. Um, [00:44:20] I think there is going to be demand, right?

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Well, I hope so. And yeah, and I think these [00:44:25] add ons, I mean, we’re looking at other ways of sort of marketing and help supporting dentists [00:44:30] with helping accruing their own patients, because I think that’s going to be a barrier, isn’t it? There’s going to [00:44:35] be a dentist that might not be as hot on, on, on social media platforms, and they [00:44:40] might want some help and support. So that’s another side that’s interesting. That’s a little bit of a side business that we’re [00:44:45] looking at creating. Um, and that’s in its infancy. But yeah, we think that [00:44:50] whatever the problems these people have, these associates have or these dentists have, you [00:44:55] know, we want to help and provide a solution. We’re open to that. Just being another another [00:45:00] meeting with me and Artie to discuss it.

Payman Langroudi: So are you mainly working on this now? [00:45:05]

Chez Bright: It’s been. Yeah, this has been probably one of the busiest projects. Um, [00:45:10] but it’s kind of nice to see it. Um, when we initially started off with the ideas, [00:45:15] it coming to life. So, you know, seeing the site [00:45:20] being built and the website being put together, um, I [00:45:25] mean, we were just talking about sort of the, the points of how the process was going to work [00:45:30] from the dentists and how they were going to operate on the website and how to use it and navigate [00:45:35] around it. And all of that’s kind of come together now, hasn’t it? And everything [00:45:40] that we’ve like, sort of visualised has kind of become a reality.

Nasser Syed: And I think that’s really [00:45:45] nice, isn’t it? You got an idea? We had an idea.

Chez Bright: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And I think that’s the bit that’s the really exciting [00:45:50] bit of it coming to life. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s just I get a major [00:45:55] boss.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Name something.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And then a customer calls up and asks for that thing. [00:46:00]

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, we call it enlightened serum. Yeah. That that becomes [00:46:05] a moment where you have to name it. Right? Yeah. You have to get the logo. You have to get the logo. [00:46:10] You have to get everything right. And then three months, six months later, something’s up. I’m looking [00:46:15] for some enlightened serum. Yeah. The thing that actually exists. It came from your head. It’s [00:46:20] a wonderful thing. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And I think also the other thing that we were chatting on the train here [00:46:25] is actually, um, about mentoring as well, in addition to the hire service. So you’ll [00:46:30] have an associate who might be doing something, um, like a loan [00:46:35] for sort of immediate load sort of thing. And, you know, they might want [00:46:40] someone there by the side of him, um, who’s very experienced. And so we’re also looking at a [00:46:45] side thing where they can we can offer up mentoring services, because in Manchester we’ve got great clinicians [00:46:50] like my brother with pros. We’ve got, um, you know, uh, Professor Julian Yates [00:46:55] for implants. Um, we’ve got Julian, who’s phenomenal. You know, we’ve got [00:47:00] really some top clinicians. I mean, I know I actually listened to his podcast before I came on. I’m [00:47:05] a big fan of I.

Payman Langroudi: Love that guy.

Nasser Syed: He’s a he’s a lovely bloke. Um, and so, [00:47:10] yeah, you know, these people might want to they might want to get a help and support [00:47:15] as well.

Payman Langroudi: So you know what it is like, the value add that you want to put here is [00:47:20] something that’s easy for you to arrange. So what you’re saying there, you’ve got a lot of contacts, specialists [00:47:25] that you can bring in easier than I can for instance here. So so [00:47:30] then you put that value add onto it. Um, but I think the there [00:47:35] might end up being in this business, an element of even attracting people away from other [00:47:40] dentists. And are you expecting nastiness in that respect?

Nasser Syed: Yes. [00:47:45] Um, I think even when I set up my sedation course, it got a bit sort [00:47:50] of, uh, nasty in 2015. Um, you know, people wondering who [00:47:55] I was, why I was setting up, and because they felt, you know, I was encroaching into their market [00:48:00] space. Yeah. You know, and I was a young guy, you know, I was I was at that point, uh, [00:48:05] nine years qualified, you know. So. Yeah. So these guys were, you know, [00:48:10] in their late 40s, you know, so, um, and so, yeah, that doesn’t [00:48:15] deter me. That doesn’t put me off. I think that’s just the nature of the game. Right? When you start to change things and you start [00:48:20] to do things and you start to move forward, there’s always someone, uh.

Payman Langroudi: That might. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s [00:48:25] almost sort of being ready for the fact that that’s going to happen and not being [00:48:30] hurt by it, you know, like.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, I’m fairly I’m fairly thick skinned right [00:48:35] into that sort of stuff. And um, if it, you know, it is going to be the nature. There’s [00:48:40] a lot of things that we’re going to learn. I’m going to have to learn quickly, and there’s going to be a, you know, [00:48:45] certain things that are going to happen that’s not so nice. But I think, you know.

Payman Langroudi: And is your plan if this works to open [00:48:50] lots of them.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Yeah, I’d like to think so. I’d like to grow up, [00:48:55] you know, in other major cities. Um, you know.

Payman Langroudi: If you’ve got, like, a private [00:49:00] equity guy that you’ve got online that you’re going to put.

[ALL]: No, no. So that’s what.

Payman Langroudi: That’s what you should be doing [00:49:05] now.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: No I haven’t actually I haven’t got a private equity. Um, I’ve [00:49:10] got some wealthy friends, but whether they, uh, whether they’re interested, um, but, [00:49:15] um, yeah, I, until I, until I prove the concept and I [00:49:20] know it’s working and I can get this a this initial practice is in the right location. It’s a beautiful area. [00:49:25] If I can start to fill up the surgery space and it’s starting to work, then. Yeah, I think I’m going to need some serious [00:49:30] money to help to grow it, because then I’m probably every city with a dental school probably would need one. Yeah, [00:49:35] and that’s probably where I would start.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a funny thing, man, to say, because every city needs everything, [00:49:40] right? You could say, oh, go borrow £50 million and open a cool ping pong bar [00:49:45] in every city. Yeah. Whether it’s going to work or not, it depends on a bunch [00:49:50] of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Um, and you’re particularly strong in Manchester. Right. So is [00:49:55] is it transferable? That’s the key question. Yes, that’s a key. Key, key question. [00:50:00] Like in a town where you don’t know everyone. Yes. Have you can you build the brand to the point that [00:50:05] when the thing touches down, the dentists know what it is?

[ALL]: Exactly. Yeah, that’s [00:50:10] the key.

Payman Langroudi: And my advice is you need some form of virality. Yeah. Um, [00:50:15] and by virality, I’m not just referring to TikTok. [00:50:20] I’m talking about word of mouth virality.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So [00:50:25] what I learned, we enlightened sort of, uh, strapline used [00:50:30] to be B1 guaranteed.

[ALL]: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: That strapline it it [00:50:35] went from mouth to mouth to mouth to mouth. It just went everywhere.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Then after ten years [00:50:40] of that, we thought, oh, we’ll change the strapline. We went to this no ordinary whitening.

[ALL]: Yeah. [00:50:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. That doesn’t travel. Yeah. That that’s why it’s not like one dentist is not going to [00:50:50] say to another dentist, yeah, I love enlighten because it’s no ordinary whitening.

[ALL]: Okay. [00:50:55] Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Although we were at the time we were thinking oh consumers. Consumers. [00:51:00] Yeah. But so, so then you know, right now people talk about [00:51:05] enlighten and they think cost. Yeah. And we want to now change that to [00:51:10] profit.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know at the end of the day yeah it’s a bigger margin. Yeah. Right. [00:51:15] And so now we want but you can’t say profit because you know consumers will [00:51:20] see that on TikTok. Yeah. So now that now we’re having to make like [00:51:25] gated walled off Instagram you know private Instagram [00:51:30] enlightened for professionals that you have to come in with the GDC number so that we can we can [00:51:35] put that in. Yeah. But my point is this virality question, this is this. [00:51:40] When it’s something new, virality is kind of easier to to achieve [00:51:45] than when there’s 20 competitors? Yeah. So I like the name. You know, [00:51:50] we we we buy any car. I like that. There’s something about that.

[ALL]: Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:55]

Payman Langroudi: But something, something something something. Like, what’s the strap? And [00:52:00] like I say, in marketing, you can only get one message through.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We also, [00:52:05] like, interested in our own business. Yeah. That you think? Oh, I can say I’ve got refrigerated [00:52:10] gel. I’ve got the tightest, but it’s not. Yeah. There’s one message you can get [00:52:15] through and you’ve got the opportunity for that.

Chez Bright: We’ve kind of got one.

Payman Langroudi: What is it? What is it?

Chez Bright: What is it? Be your own [00:52:20] boss.

Payman Langroudi: Be your own.

[ALL]: Boss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we we. [00:52:25]

Chez Bright: We’ve got a few to play.

[ALL]: Around.

Chez Bright: With because we we did sort of, um, test the waters a bit on [00:52:30] the strap lines, and we, we, we kind of created the website based on these little punchy [00:52:35] kind of points. Yeah. So and.

[ALL]: I mean.

Nasser Syed: Even to the point we were naming [00:52:40] surgeries and we were calling we were calling surgeries independence.

Chez Bright: It’s all.

Nasser Syed: In freedom, you [00:52:45] know, so it’s based around the fact that, you know, the associates don’t need to be [00:52:50] tied down like.

Chez Bright: There’s no stress associated with it. You know, it’s freedom [00:52:55] and.

[ALL]: It just focuses.

Nasser Syed: Just focus on the dentistry and, and sort [00:53:00] of take care of the rest for you and, and keep, keep the profit, you know, um, [00:53:05] and really that’s that’s. Yeah. So be your own boss. Yeah. I know, thank you for [00:53:10] your advice. I think we probably need to go back to our whiteboard at the practice.

Payman Langroudi: That’s [00:53:15] just the strap line, but I’m talking about everything.

[ALL]: Understand?

Payman Langroudi: Everything. So let’s [00:53:20] say this independence thing is a is a feature. Yeah. Then I come in on, on day one, something [00:53:25] happens that makes me feel like independent. Yeah. Because, you [00:53:30] know, like something that’s in brand. You’ve got the thing, you’ve got Prem. Right. He’ll, he’ll, he’ll do like a, [00:53:35] he’ll bring a donkey to a, to a, to a trade show. Yeah. And that, you know, you’re gonna have to stop and look at that [00:53:40] donkey. But but then there is the other idea that in brand ideas. Something [00:53:45] that’s correct for the. And the lovely thing about it is right now you can build the brand.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Exactly [00:53:50] as you wanted. Yeah, yeah.

Nasser Syed: No. Well that’s it. I think we’re really excited. It’s [00:53:55] really, um. We’re.

Payman Langroudi: So how far are we with it? Is it finished?

Nasser Syed: So, [00:54:00] um, we’re probably about two weeks away from the building work being finished. The website will be live [00:54:05] in probably within a month. Um, and then we’re just we’re going to do, [00:54:10] like an open, open event, um, where race is, is going [00:54:15] to sort of lead on that and, and really offer the mentoring side by side with that, because I think [00:54:20] that’s, that’s a really unique feature because, yeah, you can have other competitors that.

[ALL]: Can that’s a great. [00:54:25]

Nasser Syed: Thing. But you know yourself, you know, you you want sometimes you just want someone by the side [00:54:30] of you when you’re doing something complex and, and that security that you can have that within [00:54:35] the facility that we’re offering. You know, when, you know, I thought it was a brilliant [00:54:40] idea. I thought it was fantastic. It goes hand in hand with what we’re trying to breed, which is independence, freedom, [00:54:45] less stress and all this sort of stuff. And at the end of the day, the patient gets the best result [00:54:50] and that’s a win. It’s a win for win for everyone, and that’s always nice.

Payman Langroudi: I think it’d be really interesting, [00:54:55] like having a per year case treatment planning [00:55:00] fee, you know, like they do with Invisalign. Yeah these guys, that’s what they do. Yeah. [00:55:05] Other people send them their checks. Yeah. They send that what they would for £250. [00:55:10] Yeah. You should have that. You should have pros from Riaz.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:55:15] an ortho one, an implant one that you will do the treatment planning for an extra [00:55:20] £200 per case. It’s interesting.

Nasser Syed: The actual thing would be it’s going to we’re going [00:55:25] to automate it. And that’s what we were trying. What we were talking about is, is, um, they’ll be able [00:55:30] to, to have a one hour meeting with Reince before, before actually the mentoring session. [00:55:35] And, and they’ll need to submit some data. But then Riaz will sit down with them and go, here’s the pitfalls and the [00:55:40] stresses and the problems with what you’re trying to achieve. And that one hour might [00:55:45] be enough for that clinician to go right. That’s exactly what I needed. Now I can go and do it. Or they might [00:55:50] go, you know what? That was really good, actually. I want you by the side of me when I’m doing [00:55:55] this because I’m still not all there. And I go, great. And Riaz will offer [00:56:00] his services. So there’s going to be a mixture of a bit of online and a bit of, um, mentoring [00:56:05] that way and a bit of face to face whatever the clinician needs. Right? It’s what do they want? [00:56:10] What? And giving them the flexibility in that decision making.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing [00:56:15] man.

Nasser Syed: Oh thank you. Yeah it’s.

[ALL]: Been.

Payman Langroudi: I love how busy you are. And then you decide to do something. [00:56:20]

[ALL]: On top.

Payman Langroudi: Of that.

[ALL]: As well.

Nasser Syed: There’ll be another thing soon I think. Um I think.

Chez Bright: I’m [00:56:25] sure there will be.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Chez Bright: But I enjoy it. It’s really exciting, and I think [00:56:30] I like the element of doing. I’m always, like, doing something different. It’s never, [00:56:35] never the same. So. And I do enjoy it. So.

Payman Langroudi: No. And amazing to learn without. [00:56:40] Without the risk. Yeah, he’s taking it with every project. He’s taking a risk.

Chez Bright: I’m learning something.

Payman Langroudi: I’m [00:56:45] learning any.

Chez Bright: Risk at all? Yeah.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah.

Nasser Syed: We [00:56:50] plan to sort of, um, work together until we both retire to a fair.

[ALL]: Um. [00:56:55] But. Yeah, but, um.

Nasser Syed: No, it’s good. And I say I can’t do it without [00:57:00] a team. If you don’t have the team supporting you, it’s only there’s limitations on [00:57:05] what you can do. So thankfully, you know, these guys are here supporting me and allows [00:57:10] me to be creative.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to the darker part of the pod. [00:57:15]

Nasser Syed: Okay?

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about mistakes.

[ALL]: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Clinical errors.

[ALL]: Yeah. [00:57:20]

Payman Langroudi: You must have made a few.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, I think, uh, definitely.

[ALL]: What comes to mind? I [00:57:25] think one.

Nasser Syed: That comes to mind is very early on [00:57:30] in my career, uh, probably probably 2 to 3 years. You know, [00:57:35] you were in that position where you just want to make the patient happy. You just want to please the patient. You want to do exactly what [00:57:40] the patient wants. And the patient came in and had a postcranium with no endo. And [00:57:45] there was periapical pathology. Right.

[ALL]: Um.

Nasser Syed: You know, so some.

[ALL]: Old, old, good old.

Nasser Syed: Days. [00:57:50] Right? And she had some pain and symptoms and I thought, oh, well, I could take that post out [00:57:55] and I’ll redo it and I’ll put a new one in and. Yeah. Um, very quickly perforated [00:58:00] and, uh, all went horribly wrong. A bit hypochlorite went into the soft tissues. [00:58:05] Yeah. And then, um, she kindly went to go and see a solicitor afterwards, and and [00:58:10] that was that. So, uh, you know, and I think you then you very quickly start to learn and things like this [00:58:15] have to happen because you understand, actually, why did I do that? You have to [00:58:20] reflect on it and go, well, what made me do that? And where’s my limitations? Where’s my skill set? [00:58:25] Um, and so, yeah, I think, um, that was a very valuable lesson.

Payman Langroudi: So what are the answers? [00:58:30] What? Why did you do that? You were trying to keep the patient happy.

Nasser Syed: I just yeah, I think it was just to please, [00:58:35] um, I think my personality at that, my personality [00:58:40] was you. Look, you know, I can do any you know, you come out with cocky maybe a little bit after [00:58:45] dental school and you think, yeah, I can do these things.

Payman Langroudi: Also, we’re we’re in a yes business. Yeah, we’re we’re in a [00:58:50] service business.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We’re saying yes is what you’re always trying to do. And [00:58:55] I think experience gets you to that point of when it’s like an alarm.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Don’t [00:59:00] say yes to everything. Yeah, but what happened? So she sued you, and then she got paid out. [00:59:05]

Nasser Syed: She got paid out in indemnity.

Payman Langroudi: Was it quite quick or was it stressful?

[ALL]: Um. Stressful? [00:59:10] Yeah, it was my first one.

Nasser Syed: You know, I think that’s why.

[ALL]: And you were young.

Nasser Syed: That’s that’s why it’s sort of [00:59:15] probably stained into my brain. It was my first one. I went in with the best intentions, [00:59:20] you know? Um, and I felt, you know, hurt because of that. Um, [00:59:25] I think, um, and, you know, I understand things didn’t go well, and I understand [00:59:30] there was complications to that, um, and I yeah, I just I think that’s why [00:59:35] it it’s stuck into my head. But you know, you learn and I say I’m much more comfortable to say no. Now, [00:59:40] you know, if I see a patient and they want something and I don’t think it’s right, or I don’t think I [00:59:45] can do it or whatever it may be, I just go, no, you know, and I, you know, and [00:59:50] I try and get that across to my training, my associates, my, my FDA plus ones because they all come in [00:59:55] similar personality, you know, the, the sort of want to do lots [01:00:00] of everything. And they want to want to challenge themselves. And, and you say, look, you know, you [01:00:05] need to calm down a little bit. You know, you, you know, you’ve got to build up, you’ve got to I would [01:00:10] say lay your bricks. Right. You know, everyone wants to see this fancy wall where the wall is made up of individual [01:00:15] bricks, and you’ve got to lay one on top of each other to create the wall. So that’s going to take time. Um, [01:00:20] so don’t rush. Um, and, and they’ve got that relationship with me [01:00:25] where they’ll call me and go and say, I’ve got this case, what do you think? And I’ll give them my opinion. Um, and [01:00:30] so it hopefully deviates some of these problems That I experienced [01:00:35] early on my career.

Payman Langroudi: I think, you know, what you said about intent is is so huge. [01:00:40] Yeah, because I stopped practising 20, 12, 13 years ago. In [01:00:45] 2009, I got a complaint letter where [01:00:50] I was really trying to do my best, and this patient put something out. [01:00:55] He didn’t care or something. And I really took it personally. I’m talking [01:01:00] about it. 12. What was it? 14 years later I’m still talking about. It was a letter. [01:01:05] Yeah, but you know how they. The advice they give you is not to take [01:01:10] these things personally. Yeah, you have to take, you know, the error personally [01:01:15] so that you don’t make the error again. Yeah. And the error in that situation and in [01:01:20] my situation is a communication error. Yeah. I did not communicate that. My [01:01:25] intentions were brilliant. Yeah. I mean, of course some people the odd patient here and there [01:01:30] will even though they knew your intentions were brilliant, the lawyer will persuade them to write that they weren’t. Yeah, [01:01:35] but but what I’m saying is taking full sort of. What do you call it? The responsibility [01:01:40] for the error and knowing that the error wasn’t necessarily the perforation, [01:01:45] it could have been the communication. Yeah. You were a young dentist. And number two, the [01:01:50] other thing where you say no to a patient. And I always reflect on this [01:01:55] like some of the people I respect the most. And, you know, I deal with [01:02:00] like, I don’t know, commercial lawyer. Yeah. All the way to some expert [01:02:05] on, you know, German regulatory affairs or Indian are trying to [01:02:10] get toothpaste into India. A total nightmare. Yeah. Um, and some of the ones I respect the most [01:02:15] say, I don’t know all the time. All the time? Yeah. And [01:02:20] when you’re young, you feel like saying I don’t know is a weakness.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Because. [01:02:25] Because you don’t know much. But some experts will say I don’t know. [01:02:30] And you think, well, well done. Thanks for saying that. Yeah. Not making it up, right.

[ALL]: No.

Nasser Syed: Well I, [01:02:35] I went to a course. It was a, it was a soft tissue implant course. [01:02:40] It was, uh, about connective tissue graft from the palate. And, um, there was a specialist [01:02:45] periodontist there. Um, and he, he was, um, he was telling us [01:02:50] about how he consults his patients, and he does a lot of, uh, gingival recession work [01:02:55] around teeth and, and, you know, a lot he gets a lot of referrals from, from [01:03:00] surrounding colleagues. And he just says to patients, you know, they go, will this work? [01:03:05] And he’s like, I don’t know. Um, I hope so. But, you know, no guarantees. [01:03:10] And and he says the patients just look at it in blank face like my, my, my dentist [01:03:15] has told me to come and see you because you I’ve been told that you’re the best and you’re going to correct my problem. [01:03:20] And now you’re going through all this, and now you’re saying you don’t know. And he’s like, no, but I don’t, you know. [01:03:25]

[ALL]: That’s a.

Payman Langroudi: Degree of confidence to.

[ALL]: Say, oh yeah, that’s the point.

Nasser Syed: And they don’t they still buy services. [01:03:30] I think sometimes when they actually look back at it, they they appreciate the honesty. [01:03:35]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Plus plus, you know, you’re having to go through consent processes all [01:03:40] the time right. What could go wrong. Yeah. You’d imagine if you start telling them all the [01:03:45] things that go wrong, you’ll put them off. Yeah. But actually that builds trust as well. This guy’s been around the [01:03:50] block. He knows what could go wrong here.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And again, another mistake of young dentists. [01:03:55] Um, other mistakes I’ve seen with young dentists, communication errors here where they, they almost [01:04:00] download everything in their head into the patient.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Which just seems so, like, obvious [01:04:05] when you’re young. Yeah, but I’m going to just tell you everything I know. Yeah, but the patient doesn’t want everything. The [01:04:10] patient wants. Distilled version.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I find a lot of, you know, like this. You’ve [01:04:15] got this choice, and you’ve got that choice and you’ve got that choice. Yeah, I see that as a bit of a cop [01:04:20] out. Yeah. Like you’re the professional. Okay. You’ve got six choices. Yeah. Which is the one?

[ALL]: Yeah. [01:04:25]

Payman Langroudi: Which is the one? That’s the difference between a good lawyer and a great lawyer [01:04:30] is the one who’ll say, okay, there are these four choices. If it was me, I would do that.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. [01:04:35]

Payman Langroudi: But as a young dentist, you just think, oh, I’ll just get everything.

[ALL]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can do absolutely everything. [01:04:40]

Nasser Syed: But again and I get that, I get the young dentists are sitting with me through consultations [01:04:45] and I tell them, you know, I like how I converse. Actually, funnily enough, there was one [01:04:50] patient that I just finished restoring an implant yesterday, and [01:04:55] the two young associates said, can I be in with you while restoring the patient? And I said, yeah, [01:05:00] come in. And, um, restored the patient. Everything fine. And, um, I [01:05:05] said, so why do you think how did it go? And they just said they were surprised how relaxed [01:05:10] the conversation was between me and the patient, you know, and I said, yeah, but that’s [01:05:15] what the patients want. You know, they’re already a little bit anxious about coming to dentist and generally don’t [01:05:20] like being here. And you’ve got to calm that whole situation down. And in essence, [01:05:25] you become quite friendly. Um, Uh.

Payman Langroudi: And also that’s your default. [01:05:30] Like, you’ve got to not underestimate like some dentists when they become dentists. You’ve [01:05:35] been a nurse before with other dentists. Yeah. When did the dentist this sort [01:05:40] of high and mighty person. Yeah. And but some people, this disposition isn’t that. [01:05:45]

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I’m definitely from the patient perspective. They want to know you care before anything [01:05:50] else. Right.

Nasser Syed: Well that is I mean, even this the patient that I was talking about, you know, he [01:05:55] came to me and I placed implants on him before, and I said, look, I’m really quietening down now. I’m [01:06:00] not doing much surgery. You want to go and see my other guy? Uh, he’s, you know, he’s [01:06:05] really good. And the patient went, no, I want you to do it. But I said, look, really, [01:06:10] you know, I am really quietening down. I don’t really want to. And he goes, no, [01:06:15] you’re doing it. And I went, okay, fine.

[ALL]: And so I.

Nasser Syed: Begrudgingly [01:06:20] agreed to it and I finally just finished it off. Um, but yeah, you get you know, [01:06:25] I think that takes time and experience to develop that sort of communication [01:06:30] skills with your patients. But that’s what I’m trying. And still within the associates, [01:06:35] you need to be able to gain the patient’s confidence to the point that they they only just want you [01:06:40] and they’ll follow you because they do. Patients are quite loyal.

Payman Langroudi: What [01:06:45] are you really bad at? Maybe I should ask you.

[ALL]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What’s he really bad at?

Nasser Syed: That’s a good one. [01:06:50]

[ALL]: You can be honest.

Chez Bright: Don’t worry.

[ALL]: Go [01:06:55] for.

Chez Bright: It. Um. I don’t know, to [01:07:00] be honest, I don’t think there is anything that you’re bad at. I think.

Payman Langroudi: There’s [01:07:05] lots of things, I’m.

[ALL]: Sure. Yeah.

Chez Bright: I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: What [01:07:10] do you mean by that? You know.

[ALL]: Um.

Nasser Syed: I’m. [01:07:15] I’m probably a bit sort of jumpy, [01:07:20] so I jump around in different ways. Yeah. So sometimes [01:07:25] I just need to calm down a little bit. Um, um.

Chez Bright: I [01:07:30] think actually go on. Probably just having a bit of [01:07:35] a chill and a day off. A day off?

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Chez Bright: You can’t really, can you? That’s [01:07:40] probably one thing that you are bad. Actually.

Nasser Syed: I struggle with that. Yeah. Switching off even when [01:07:45] I’m abroad. Um, so I actually one of, one of my most favourite holidays [01:07:50] was I went to Thailand. Um, and the reason it was [01:07:55] really good, because by 10 p.m., you know, the kids are going off to bed and everyone’s [01:08:00] in chill mode, but it’s 2 p.m. in UK, so I can really get on top of [01:08:05] some work in the evening. Really check. Some emails are still open and I can [01:08:10] still check in and everyone. So how was work and everything? So I’ve done all the fun stuff [01:08:15] during the day and then I can still do some work in the evening. Yeah, I think I do.

Chez Bright: And then.

Nasser Syed: We’re just [01:08:20] catching.

Chez Bright: Up. When you’re on holiday now, just have a day off. Like, just chill out. [01:08:25] Just switch off, unwind, recharge and then come back with a fresh head. [01:08:30]

Nasser Syed: I always feel a little bit better when I come back. To be fair, but, um, but.

Payman Langroudi: You [01:08:35] know, the the Archimedes theory of fluid displacement. Eureka. That guy, [01:08:40] when he figured out how to figure out whether it’s a real gold crown or not. Yeah. You know, [01:08:45] so he was some scientist. The king said to him. I’ve got this crown. Is it [01:08:50] is it gold or isn’t it? Yeah. He wasn’t sure in the face. The [01:08:55] story goes, he was in the shower. He went to have a bath. His wife told him, stop working. [01:09:00] You need a bath. Okay. Yeah. His wife makes him a bath. He drops the the the [01:09:05] crown in the water, the displacement of the water. He figures out that, [01:09:10] um, you know, that you can tell that the density of the metal from [01:09:15] the amount of displacement. And then he runs in the streets naked, saying, Eureka, Eureka! [01:09:20] That’s where the eureka comes But the point of the story is the wife, the [01:09:25] wife saying, slow down and have a bath. Yeah. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And sometimes when you’re [01:09:30] away, I get that, you know, you sort of out of the out of the mayhem and [01:09:35] sometimes you’re able to have these sort of eureka moments.

Payman Langroudi: And I’m not [01:09:40] very busy right now. Right now. Okay. As I was in the first ten years [01:09:45] of enlighten. Um, and I remember in the first ten years, I used to go [01:09:50] to my parents place in Spain, and the first two days I’d be walking around the pool with [01:09:55] my phone, you know, like, completely not. And then I’d notice by day 4 or 5, [01:10:00] I’m slowing down. By day 7 or 8, I’ve forgotten where the phone is. Yeah, it was back then. [01:10:05] You couldn’t. You couldn’t scroll, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but sometimes [01:10:10] we’re not built for it either. Right. You know, some people want to keep going continuously. [01:10:15] Yeah, they’re good at that.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. No.

Payman Langroudi: Are you an early morning person [01:10:20] or late night person.

Nasser Syed: I’m definitely an early morning person. After sort of [01:10:25] ten half, ten, 11, I’m. If I’m working still, I [01:10:30] can see that, you know, things aren’t making sense anymore. My emails are just a gobbledegook. [01:10:35]

Payman Langroudi: So work every night?

Nasser Syed: Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. [01:10:40]

Payman Langroudi: So you come home from whatever you were doing?

Nasser Syed: Yeah, I spent a bit. I spent time with family.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:10:45] when you work again.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Every night.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. But [01:10:50] I’m not as bad as my brother, so my brother’s listening. He’s much worse than me. [01:10:55]

Payman Langroudi: Ask yourself, though, do you go to the gym and all that?

Nasser Syed: I do try, I do try. I should go a bit [01:11:00] more often, but I try and get sort of to 2 to 3 times a week. I do try.

Payman Langroudi: So there must be a [01:11:05] moment of me time. When is that? 5 a.m.. Well, what time [01:11:10] do you wake up?

Nasser Syed: Um, I’m usually up by by about 530. Yeah. Yeah, [01:11:15] five.

Payman Langroudi: Do you spend an hour by yourself doing nothing?

Nasser Syed: Um, What? I usually everyone’s [01:11:20] still asleep, so that’s why I really enjoy that time.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Wait, you don’t work at that point?

Nasser Syed: Well, I’m sort [01:11:25] of getting ready, but then I might just do a few bits and pieces. Yes, depending on what’s going on. [01:11:30] Uh, I think we’re just going to get busy and busy with some of these projects. So, um, but [01:11:35] yeah, I think, um, my mornings are it’s peaceful. It’s really peaceful. [01:11:40] Everyone’s still asleep. I can just.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of your me time. Right.

Nasser Syed: That is kind of my me time. Yeah. And then I try [01:11:45] and get to the gym when I can, and then that’s a bit of me time. Um.

Payman Langroudi: I’m amazed you thought you didn’t [01:11:50] need a PA and all that going on.

Nasser Syed: I didn’t, and you know what? I’ve [01:11:55] got a few friends who are, uh, growing practices now, and that’s [01:12:00] the exact same information I say to them who don’t have PA, I say, you must get a [01:12:05] pa, um, because you’ll notice how your life changes. Um, funnily enough, there’s there’s [01:12:10] a chap in in in Wales. He’s he owns a few dental practices and I met up with him [01:12:15] and I told him about my situation, how things have improved since I’ve got people around me. [01:12:20] He’s done exactly the same thing, and he’s hired. And he sends me messages saying, that was the best [01:12:25] advice you’ve ever given me, because you can’t do it on your own, and there’s only so much you can do, [01:12:30] and you need good people around you.

Payman Langroudi: Especially if you’re a dentist. If you’re a dentist, you’re most of your day is taken [01:12:35] up by patients. Yeah, yeah. Like it’s crazy that, you know, you’ve only got the lunchtime [01:12:40] and the whatever before patients and after patients to do something. Yeah. It’s [01:12:45] mad. Yeah, yeah. So if you want to do things you need help.

Nasser Syed: And that was the that [01:12:50] was the early stages where I owned a few practices and I was still doing a lot of clinical dentistry. So it was [01:12:55] I would sort of in between patients, go and answer some telephone calls and deal with some matters, and then [01:13:00] I’ll say lunchtime and then on the way home from work and so on and so forth. And it was [01:13:05] it was 2022. I thought, this isn’t working. Um, and you [01:13:10] have to make a decision.

Payman Langroudi: What’s been your lowest point?

Nasser Syed: In [01:13:15] dentistry or in just everything.

Payman Langroudi: I’ll have whatever you want to give me.

Nasser Syed: Um. [01:13:20]

Payman Langroudi: Well, let’s talk work first.

Nasser Syed: Um. Lowest point. Um, so [01:13:25] I attended for some oral surgery contracts. Um, and, [01:13:30] you know, I put a lot of work and effort into it and a lot of money into it, and, um, [01:13:35] and, um, and it wasn’t successful, [01:13:40] and it was just on a stupid error that that’s the bit that annoyed me the most. It was [01:13:45] a real stupid error. Um, and it was just the point. It, [01:13:50] you know, there was you could blame this person and that person and so on and so forth. But ultimately I [01:13:55] was responsible. Um, and so I had to take on the chin. Um, but [01:14:00] that that’s that has always hurt because, um, because I’m a oral surgeon. [01:14:05] Right. And to have an oral surgery contract just makes sense. Yeah. And I know I do a great job of [01:14:10] it. And I knew the patients would be treated fantastically. I knew all the people of the workforce would be great. And he [01:14:15] had it all in my mind. I had it all mapped out and then it was just a stupid error. [01:14:20] And, um, I didn’t win. Um, and I think that that that really [01:14:25] hurt.

Payman Langroudi: But okay, I understand the, the notion of it would have been good [01:14:30] and you’d put in some hours. Yeah. But did you have some sort of existential crisis saying like [01:14:35] that? That mistake was made because I’m a loser kind of, I, [01:14:40] I thought because because when I say low point, I was expecting a lower point [01:14:45] than that.

[ALL]: Okay. Yeah. No. Professionally that that was [01:14:50] quite low for me to me.

Payman Langroudi: Because with all the stuff that you’re doing, all those practices, all those associates, [01:14:55] all that implantology for that to be the low point, you.

[ALL]: Know, [01:15:00] it’s all been.

Nasser Syed: A blessing.

[ALL]: To be fair. [01:15:05] Um, I am very blessed. Um, but yeah.

Nasser Syed: That was that was that I took that. [01:15:10]

Payman Langroudi: I believe in God.

Nasser Syed: Yes, yes.

Payman Langroudi: When was it? It? When? At what point was your [01:15:15] faith most tested?

Nasser Syed: Um, [01:15:20] well, for me, um, my my mother passed away in 2022. [01:15:25] Um. Um, and that that that [01:15:30] was a massive test. Um, it’s still a test. It’s it’s [01:15:35] still painful every day. Um, you know, when you have your moment, um, the [01:15:40] person that you can’t do no wrong. Always there for you always got your [01:15:45] back. Never going to leave you, never gonna, um, do anything to harm you or [01:15:50] do anything wrong. You know, for you, you know, to lose that person [01:15:55] is. It rips. It rips a part of you [01:16:00] away. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Did you still have your dad or. No. At that point?

Nasser Syed: No. My dad had passed away before, [01:16:05] but, um, me and my mum was released. It was was. We were very close, you know, [01:16:10] every day from I would finish work, I would go and see my mom. Whoa. And [01:16:15] I’d go in, and it don’t matter how bad your day was, but as soon as you came in, it [01:16:20] just relieved. You’re stressed or relieved because your mum would just sit [01:16:25] you down and feed you, give you tea, give you biscuits and put the TV on. She’s not interested [01:16:30] in what what what you got? You know what you’re going to give her, what you’re going to do for or [01:16:35] what you’re going to. You know, she’s just there. She was just there to make things better. [01:16:40] Um, and, um, and then I it didn’t matter if I was there for 5 minutes [01:16:45] or 2 hours. It was enough of a refresh [01:16:50] for that. I could leave that, leave my mum at that point and go. Mm. I feel a bit better. Um, [01:16:55] and when you lose that part of your life, that’s, um. It’s. [01:17:00] Life’s never the same.

Payman Langroudi: No. And losing both parents, that moment of there [01:17:05] is no parent. Right.

Nasser Syed: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How does that feel?

Nasser Syed: It’s. [01:17:10] It’s difficult. [01:17:15] I mean, I’m sort of blessed with with with with my siblings, you know, I’ve [01:17:20] got my brother, um, I’ve got an older sister, two older sisters, um, and [01:17:25] my elder sister. We’re very close as well. So she gets my daily telephone calls, you know, [01:17:30] once or twice a day where, you know, we can talk about anything. Um, she’d [01:17:35] tell me about her day. I can tell, and that’s what I need. I, you know, it’s just an outlet where, [01:17:40] you know, it can be. We can be talking nonsense. It doesn’t even need to make sense. But [01:17:45] it just something where you can just outlet, where there’s no barrier, there’s no. I need to [01:17:50] think about what I say before I say it. And that constant thought [01:17:55] on your mind. And you just have a period of time where that doesn’t matter, you [01:18:00] know, it can decompress you. Um, and [01:18:05] so, yeah. So I’m quite blessed in that we all live quite close to each other. You [01:18:10] know, my eldest brother is ten minutes from my house. My other. My sister’s 15 minutes away, you [01:18:15] know. Um, so in that way, we’ve been very supportive of one another. And I think that’s [01:18:20] really helped. I think without that, things could have been very different.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:18:25] then when you say your faith was most tested at that moment, what do [01:18:30] you mean? Did you pray to God that your mum would make it and she didn’t, and that made you think [01:18:35] there is no God?

Nasser Syed: No, no, I don’t think I don’t think my faith was was ultimately tested. [01:18:40] It was a difficult part where we.

Payman Langroudi: Were you saying the opposite? Are you saying that’s when your [01:18:45] faith really helped you?

Nasser Syed: Yes, exactly. Yeah. I think, you know, that’s where my faith came into it. [01:18:50] Uh, in a sense that we we sort of believe we are going to be tested. Life isn’t [01:18:55] going to be easy. It’s all not all going to be roses. And, uh.

Payman Langroudi: And when [01:19:00] someone passes away. Right? I don’t believe in God. Right. So it’s very hard. Very [01:19:05] hard.

Nasser Syed: It’s very.

Payman Langroudi: Difficult. It’s very hard anyway. Yeah, but. But what I’m saying is, if you believe in God, [01:19:10] then you think, okay, they’re looking down on me. They’re with. They’re in a better place. They’re [01:19:15] with their own, uh, parents or whatever, you know, other people who’ve passed away. Yeah. All of [01:19:20] that stuff is kind of soothing a little bit. Of course it’s soothing, but, [01:19:25] you know, a little bit. Yeah. For me, I don’t believe in that. I don’t, I don’t, I really don’t I wish I did in [01:19:30] a way because I see it helps. Yeah. I believe when someone dies, they die. That’s gone. Yeah. [01:19:35] You’re left with almost nothing. Yeah. No one’s looking down. Yeah. They’re not in a better place. [01:19:40] None of that. Yeah, yeah, but I want to understand the other side of it. When was your faith most tested? When [01:19:45] did you think maybe there is no God? Like, what happened to you that made you.

Nasser Syed: I don’t think I’ve ever [01:19:50] been in that situation, if I’m being honest.

Payman Langroudi: A child getting run over two days old, don’t you think? [01:19:55] Where was God in that moment?

Nasser Syed: I don’t think I see it in that way. Um, I don’t, you [01:20:00] know, I don’t see that, um, that if something bad [01:20:05] happens, Then there is, you know, why did God do that? I don’t think, I don’t think. [01:20:10]

Payman Langroudi: I think.

Nasser Syed: Like I don’t question it.

Payman Langroudi: Really?

Nasser Syed: No. I think my faith, um, says [01:20:15] what will be, will be. Uh, and really, our faith will get it. Get, [01:20:20] get you through this.

Payman Langroudi: In the end.

Nasser Syed: In the end, um, and in the end, we, you know, we ultimately, [01:20:25] as as humans don’t understand the whole, uh, logistics. [01:20:30]

Payman Langroudi: God moves in mysterious ways.

Nasser Syed: And all that sort sort of way. And who [01:20:35] are us to who are us to question it? Um, and so when we’re faced with these [01:20:40] calamities or difficulties, um, my, my faith is my [01:20:45] support. Uh, what will be will be.

Payman Langroudi: No. [01:20:50] Calm, calm. That’s more kismet, right? Yeah. Karma. Kind of. If I do, good, good will [01:20:55] come back. Yeah, if you believe in that.

Nasser Syed: I believe in doing good. Um, not [01:21:00] necessarily in getting something in return.

Payman Langroudi: But do you think it will? And by the [01:21:05] way, the opposite. Yeah, like of course, of course. Well, you’re good to me. I’ll be good. Back to you. Yeah, but I’m talking about sort of supernatural [01:21:10] karma.

Chez Bright: The energy that you put out into the universe. It comes back to you in the same [01:21:15] way that you put it out there.

Payman Langroudi: Someone drops something, you pick it up, and you don’t ask who, [01:21:20] who, whose £10 note is this? You go and buy something with that £10 and that thing fucks your life. [01:21:25] Yeah. Do you believe? I believe in that.

Nasser Syed: I believe in that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: I do believe [01:21:30] in that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think.

Nasser Syed: I think that we.

Payman Langroudi: You know.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. If you [01:21:35] do, if you, uh, and especially around money. Right. Because money is the root of all evil. [01:21:40] I really, truly believe that. I think money is evil. Um, if you if you if [01:21:45] your primary focus is just being rich and buying stuff.

Payman Langroudi: It tells you to.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, yeah. Because [01:21:50] then, you know, you you you’ll cheat someone to get some more money and so on and so forth, and [01:21:55] then. But that money will never be good for you. That money will never. That money will. [01:22:00]

Chez Bright: Wanted.

Nasser Syed: It’s tainted. Right? It will come. It will come out plus some, right? [01:22:05] In other ways. It will happen. And it’s [01:22:10] only when you truly reflect and go, why did that thing happen?

Chez Bright: It’s because of that. [01:22:15]

Payman Langroudi: It’s $10.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, and I lost. Yeah, whatever. And. [01:22:20] Yeah. But, um. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Do what comes to mind if I say, what was the best lecture or lecturer [01:22:25] or course that you’ve been on?

Nasser Syed: Uh, lecturer I, I, I [01:22:30] was thinking about this, and I was, um, there was one lecture when I was again, a very [01:22:35] young, uh, dentist by a prof. Ibbotson.

Payman Langroudi: I remember him, yeah.

Nasser Syed: And [01:22:40] he’s just a charming.

Payman Langroudi: Charming.

Nasser Syed: And he was a fantastic speaker. You [01:22:45] know, he could really hold your attention. So it didn’t even matter what he [01:22:50] was talking about. I don’t think, you know, he just had that charisma. And, um. [01:22:55] And so he always comes back to mind. And when I try and lecture, I try and get a little percentage [01:23:00] of Yeah, why? He could. I can never achieve it. But he was. I [01:23:05] like to talk when I. When I do like I like to talk about stories. You know my experiences. [01:23:10] So yes, I’ve got 15 slides and I’ve got 20 pictures and yeah there’s [01:23:15] a, there’s, there’s, there’s a formality of what I’m going to teach you, but really I [01:23:20] want to tell you about my stories because you’re going to learn a little bit more and it’s real life and [01:23:25] you can relate to.

Payman Langroudi: It programmed to, to learn through stories.

Nasser Syed: And so I tend to just [01:23:30] tell experiences. Um, um, and so we can spend a whole two hour lecture [01:23:35] on and I could cover a few stories and, and, and then things then work off that, you [01:23:40] know, they’ll ask questions and so on and so forth. And I really enjoyed that part of lecturing rather than slide [01:23:45] one to slide 20. And I always say at the start of lecture, one lecture in particular [01:23:50] I’ve got about, you know, 120 slides, I said, if I get anywhere [01:23:55] close to halfway, something’s not going right because you’ve not [01:24:00] engaged, right? Um, and so the best time is I get to [01:24:05] lecture, I get to slide 2530, and it’s the end of time. I think that’s that’s really useful [01:24:10] because now it’s interesting. I’ve now answered your questions. Not what I think [01:24:15] you should know. Yes, I’ve got that there. And you can always come back to me anyway about it. But you’ve [01:24:20] had questions and I’ve answered those and that’s valuable.

Payman Langroudi: Have you got a favourite book Dental book [01:24:25] or resource?

Nasser Syed: Um, I do like a Dental update. Uh, yeah, I [01:24:30] do like a Dental update from time to time. Bit of a coffee and some tea and some Dental [01:24:35] update is is quite good. Uh, I should plug my book. Actually, to be fair, [01:24:40] he’s got he’s got he’s got a book that. [01:24:45]

Payman Langroudi: You haven’t read yet.

Nasser Syed: Yeah, it’s very big, but, [01:24:50] um. Yeah. So, um. Yeah. Dental updates. Quite fun.

Payman Langroudi: Excellent. I’ve really enjoyed [01:24:55] that. I’m going to end with the same question as you always end on. A fantasy [01:25:00] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive. And you’re going to share them, right? Yeah, [01:25:05] you’re going to have two and you’re going to have one. Is that right?

Nasser Syed: Let’s do that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Well, [01:25:10] you want to go the other way round. Do you want to have two or you can have three. You can have three.

Chez Bright: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: What are yours. [01:25:15]

Nasser Syed: My, my my two. So I’ll leave one for. For shares. Um, I think what [01:25:20] I grew up around Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. So Will Smith. Will Smith would be a cool [01:25:25] dinner. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And even after he punched that guy. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: Will [01:25:30] Smith during Fresh Prince of Bel-Air time.

Payman Langroudi: Oh. That was. Yeah, he was cool. He was. [01:25:35]

Nasser Syed: Will Smith.

Payman Langroudi: He was funny.

Nasser Syed: That would be really good. And the second one. Don’t judge me. Would be, uh, Pablo [01:25:40] Escobar.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Nasser Syed: I think that would.

Payman Langroudi: Be an interesting.

Nasser Syed: That would be really, [01:25:45] really interesting. Just his life. And put the drugs to one side. But, [01:25:50] um.

Payman Langroudi: Did you watch the serial? Um. Narcos.

Nasser Syed: Narcos? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The actor was brilliant. The [01:25:55] one. The one who played Escobar.

Nasser Syed: Brilliant.

Payman Langroudi: Fantastic Argentinian guy. He was brilliant. Yeah.

Nasser Syed: And [01:26:00] elements of that was based on on on his life, you know, willing to pay off the national [01:26:05] debts.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know, he was interesting guy.

Nasser Syed: That is.

Payman Langroudi: Just.

Nasser Syed: Insanity. Right. But [01:26:10] the balls. Right?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Nasser Syed: The courage and and so I think that would be quite fun.

Payman Langroudi: Good accommodation. [01:26:15] Yeah. Accommodation.

Chez Bright: And you see, I was going to say Channing Tatum. [01:26:20] But now I’m thinking I want to say Chris Rock because he said Will Smith to see if they kind of squash [01:26:25] this beef with Jada Pinkett thing.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting.

Nasser Syed: That would be good [01:26:30] actually. Yeah.

Chez Bright: So yeah, I’m gonna say Chris Rock now.

Payman Langroudi: Excellent.

Nasser Syed: Might end up being a [01:26:35] referee during that one. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Really enjoyed that man. Really enjoyed that. I think what [01:26:40] I’ve learned the most from you is, uh, to work a bit harder. No, [01:26:45] but but but you do it with a brilliant smile on your face. And when I came [01:26:50] to your practice, everyone seemed so happy. And for me, that’s. It’s difficult [01:26:55] to pull that off, man, when you have the number of people that you’ve got to deal with, and everyone in [01:27:00] that room was so happy. Well done.

Nasser Syed: Thank you so much.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not easy to pull that off.

Nasser Syed: And thank you [01:27:05] for coming to lecturing actually. They really, really enjoyed it. So thank you.

Payman Langroudi: Good to good to have both [01:27:10] of you.

Nasser Syed: Yeah. Thank you.

Payman Langroudi: Thank you.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, [01:27:15] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders [01:27:20] in dentistry. Your hosts [01:27:25] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. [01:27:30] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both [01:27:35] from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest [01:27:40] has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, [01:27:45] think about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you [01:27:50] think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so so so much for listening. Thanks.

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