[VOICE]: This [00:00:05] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you get to go [00:00:10] one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:15] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki. [00:00:20]

Payman Langroudi: One of the most common questions I get is how do I do more teeth whitening? The basis [00:00:25] of that is to really believe in it, and the basis of that is to fully understand it. Join us for enlightened [00:00:30] online training on enlightened online training to understand how to assess a case [00:00:35] quickly, how to deliver brilliant results every time. Next time. Whitening underwhelms. Try [00:00:40] and lighten. Now let’s get to the pod. It gives me great pleasure to welcome J.W. Oliver [00:00:45] onto the podcast. J.w. is a renowned author, speaker, [00:00:50] serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, started loads and loads of [00:00:55] companies from when he was 12 years old. But it’s all sort of Now accumulated [00:01:00] into the business process outsourcing area. Or I know you like to call it insourcing. [00:01:05] J.w. Zim works out of Zimbabwe and now really [00:01:10] focusing in quite a lot on the dental profession with support DDS, where you’re [00:01:15] a huge player in the US and recently started in the UK with with my [00:01:20] good friend Gina representing you here. Welcome to the pod.

JW Oliver: Oh thank [00:01:25] you. It’s a great, great pleasure. Shoot. I’m just lucky I’m able to be on here. And you use some words there [00:01:30] that, uh, renowned. I might have to strike that, I think. Just some some [00:01:35] words there. That may be a little much, but, uh, I’ll accept the compliment.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re sitting in [00:01:40] Texas right now. How’s the weather there?

JW Oliver: Uh, well, it’s cold. We’re [00:01:45] coming up, uh, here early December, and it’s been chilly. But, you know, in Texas, as [00:01:50] they say, just wait a few minutes and it’ll change, because I think it’s supposed to be, uh, [00:01:55] much warmer tomorrow, but it’s been freezing the last couple of days as well.

Payman Langroudi: Give [00:02:00] me a bit of your backstory. How did you how did you grow up and how did you chance [00:02:05] on outsourcing?

JW Oliver: Wow. Yeah. That’s a that’s an interesting [00:02:10] story. You know, I never thought I would be sitting here at 60 years old today and, [00:02:15] and, and running a business in Africa and Costa Rica. And so [00:02:20] that’s that’s a different story. You know, I grew up, uh, came from a very we were [00:02:25] well below the poverty line. Um, mom, dad divorced at age [00:02:30] five for me and and mom raising three girls. And I was the youngest a boy. So four [00:02:35] kids. And just luckily, we had good, good grandparents and support systems [00:02:40] that really helped us get through it. And and, you know, I remember Payman I remember when being in [00:02:45] high school. So 15, 16, 17 I was kind of introduced to some [00:02:50] folks that were really very wealthy, uh, some kids whose parents were very wealthy, I guess [00:02:55] I should say. Yeah. And I’m just I remember thinking, well, what did they do? What did they [00:03:00] do and why, why, why, why am I living where I’m at? And why are they where they’re at? You [00:03:05] know, is it luck? Is it hard work? And so I remember just developing this affinity [00:03:10] to thinking I didn’t want to be poor. I remember my mom used to, uh, [00:03:15] go to the grocery store, and I would be in the basket, you know, sitting there, and I [00:03:20] can really remember her, uh, putting stuff in the in the basket. And then she had a little calculator, [00:03:25] and she would take stuff back out of the basket and put it back up. Right. Just realising [00:03:30] not going to have enough money for these groceries. And so, you know, I remember [00:03:35] those kind of things and they were just impactful for me. So you know I went to university, got [00:03:40] my degree, I got a degree in political science. I thought I was going to be in law enforcement. Uh, [00:03:45] kind of fell into getting into the the dental equipment business way back in 1986. [00:03:50]

Payman Langroudi: What were you selling?

JW Oliver: Uh, we were selling actually refurbished [00:03:55] dental chairs, lights, X-rays. This was pre-digital, right? [00:04:00] So we were selling old film processors and, uh, but we were selling [00:04:05] refurbished. And it was, it was it got started by accident. I did it out of my mom’s [00:04:10] garage for a number of years, and then grew that into a fairly [00:04:15] large business. Sold that in 2010. Um, and, [00:04:20] and then was trying to kind of find my way as to what I would do. I got back into [00:04:25] the, uh, digital imaging was kind of making a force at that time. Let’s call this around [00:04:30] 2012. And so I got back into selling recertified [00:04:35] phone beams, uh, and other digital imaging equipment from [00:04:40] then and still have that company. It’s a company called Global Imaging. It’s a smaller company, and, uh, [00:04:45] it’s still very active and serves a purpose. But then how [00:04:50] I got to where I am today, in 2015, My wife and I went to this, uh, [00:04:55] Christian marriage conference. It was actually a fundraiser for a group called National Centre for fathering. And, [00:05:00] uh, I meet a guy from Zimbabwe. Uh, small group. Only 25 [00:05:05] couples were there. I meet a guy from Zimbabwe, and he was like, hey, we should get together and have [00:05:10] have meet sometime. I’m like, meet where? So we ended up meeting them. Oh, it was about eight months [00:05:15] later in Italy and just became friends with him. And he was like, man, we should get into [00:05:20] business together. And I thought, doing what? And he said, well, we got these great, great [00:05:25] people in Zimbabwe.

JW Oliver: They just don’t have jobs, but they’re well educated. They speak the [00:05:30] Queen’s English, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, I maybe could hire a couple for my company [00:05:35] and see how it works out. So we hired two. This was in 2017, [00:05:40] uh, end of 2017. And I remember going back to him and saying, hey, this works out pretty well. [00:05:45] They’re really smart. They’ve got they speak great. It doesn’t sound like you’re, you know, speaking to a foreign [00:05:50] country. It works. And so, um, I remember [00:05:55] in, uh, let’s see, February of 2018, we had eight [00:06:00] people working for us. And I’ve got a picture of us. We’re standing around, we’re in this big building that we didn’t have [00:06:05] full. And, um, I was thinking, man, where’s this going from here? And, um, [00:06:10] so today we’re at 1700 people. Uh, we’ve grown [00:06:15] grown enormously in the last eight years. We’re continuing to scale. Uh, we’ve got centres, [00:06:20] uh, two in Zimbabwe, 1 in 1 in Harare. We’ve got an IT centre in Vic Falls. [00:06:25] We have an office in Lusaka, Zambia, and then we have a bilingual centre down in Costa Rica. And we’re still [00:06:30] continuing to grow at somewhere between 30 and 40 new team members each [00:06:35] month, and a net of so. So yeah, it’s been fun. We’ve expanded into the UK and uh, [00:06:40] so that’s a, that’s a sorry for the long story, but it kind of tells you where we is, where we are [00:06:45] today.

Payman Langroudi: I’m interested. I want to take you back to when you sold that first company. [00:06:50] Was it for an amount that you could have sort of sat back for a while or not? [00:06:55]

JW Oliver: Well, interesting. Um, by that time, Payman [00:07:00] I had been I had been broke officially once and probably unofficially two more [00:07:05] times. And and at that time I was offered a reasonable [00:07:10] sum to sell it. And I was kind of tired of the business, to be honest with you, I, I scaled [00:07:15] it, I was kind of burnt out. And because we were doing a lot of things, I mean, we were selling like refurbished [00:07:20] view boxes, if you remember, old view boxes, you know, we would. I don’t even know why we’d bring [00:07:25] them in for $2, paint them and sell them for $30 or whatever. But we were doing also chairs and [00:07:30] and we just had an enormous number of, of problems and people. [00:07:35] And so they kept negotiating me down on the price. And finally I really almost [00:07:40] just gave it away. But I was really tired of being in the business. So, no, [00:07:45] I was far, far, far from being able to, um, sit back on a [00:07:50] beach for probably even a month, but, uh, I was able to I was [00:07:55] able to use it as a time to to think about what I wanted to do. And I [00:08:00] knew at that time. It’s funny because you your mind goes through these changes and, [00:08:05] and at that time I thought, you know what? I’m going to have me 1 or 2 employees, uh, I’m going to [00:08:10] operate this really small little niche business, make a decent living, and just [00:08:15] sit on a beach ride off into the sunset. Uh, and then that business grew, [00:08:20] and it’s not. It’s not big. There’s probably less than 20 people in that company now. It stayed pretty [00:08:25] small, uh, but, you know, scaled on the other side, right, with what we have currently now, [00:08:30] uh, to to the place we are. But yeah, it’s been it’s definitely been a journey.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:08:35] I mean, you’re clearly now sort of super ambitious about growth. [00:08:40] So do you feel like something happened was an inflection point where, [00:08:45] you know, you went from being this sort of small business guy to a, I guess, a [00:08:50] medium size or large business. Was that a shift in your mindset? [00:08:55]

JW Oliver: Well, I think it was purpose. Um, because, [00:09:00] you know, you you can get to a point where you have everything [00:09:05] you need and that’s probably realistically a pretty low number, right? I mean, I can pay the bills, I can drive a nice car. [00:09:10] I take vacations when I want to. But when we started employing [00:09:15] the team members in Zim Works and our current organisation, [00:09:20] um, my, my business partner and I said, well, hey, we’re doing other [00:09:25] businesses at the same time, so let’s give 51% back [00:09:30] to the kingdom, both coming from Christian backgrounds. We said, let’s do this with ministries. How can we help orphanages? [00:09:35] How can we help various groups? And so we decided we were going to donate [00:09:40] 51% of our profits. And this is right when we started in 20 2018, 2017. [00:09:45] Um, and I always kind of laugh at that. I tell people for the first 4 [00:09:50] or 5 years that was easy because 51% of nothing was nothing, right? I mean, like, that check [00:09:55] was easy to write. Um, sure. We’ll donate it all if you’d like us to, because it’s nothing. [00:10:00] But now that’s become a significant number that we’re able to to donate, uh, on a regular [00:10:05] basis.

JW Oliver: We actually have a VP of philanthropy, uh, who, who manages all this, [00:10:10] our workplace wellness, our VP of philanthropy systems. So, uh, now it’s a labour of [00:10:15] love. I mean, we’re seeing the passion from not only, uh, the ministries [00:10:20] we do, as I mentioned, through our support, but we’re providing a really needed [00:10:25] service to not only Dental, but other healthcare arenas where we’re helping people [00:10:30] to be able to, to to run their businesses and operate it more efficiently. [00:10:35] Uh, and then the team members, I mean, when you see people, you know, we’re in areas Payman [00:10:40] where the, the unemployment rates can be from anywhere from [00:10:45] 70 to 75% unemployment. Now there’s a lot of people working [00:10:50] in unofficial sectors, you know, selling soaps and oils and cooking utensils and handmade [00:10:55] crafts and things. But official employment is probably around 20 to 30%. And [00:11:00] so when you see people whose lives are changed because now they have a job, [00:11:05] they can pay their rent, they can probably support their children or their or their siblings [00:11:10] or their parents. That’s what really makes an impact. So that’s what really drives me today. [00:11:15] Um, probably more passionate about what I do today than I’ve ever been.

Payman Langroudi: Nonetheless, [00:11:20] giving away half of your EBITDA seems amazing [00:11:25] and so seems crazy. That’s that’s kind of the Christian side, right?

JW Oliver: Well, [00:11:30] and what’s what’s interesting is when you look at my I’ll [00:11:35] take my personal finances. I’m now making more personally than [00:11:40] I ever have in my career, But yet I’m giving away, uh, [00:11:45] you know, these are seven figure numbers. Now that we’re able to give away and make an impact. And [00:11:50] it’s a full time job for somebody. So when you when you see that you’re [00:11:55] able to to live out a greater purpose where you’re not only providing job but providing [00:12:00] a needed service and then also being able to, to to make an impact. [00:12:05] Uh, it really is it changes everything. It changes the way you approach today.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:12:10] guess it’s I guess it’s that thing where it’s a lot nicer giving a present than getting a [00:12:15] present, right? Yeah.

JW Oliver: 100% true.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s [00:12:20] go into support deeds. You are providing outsourced. [00:12:25] You like to call it in-sourced services to dental practices. [00:12:30] The kind of support is things like. What is it? I looked on your website. What does it mean? Director [00:12:35] of first impressions. What does that mean?

JW Oliver: Yeah. So, um, I [00:12:40] think and let me explain the insourcing piece, if you don’t mind just just real quickly. Uh, [00:12:45] we had a friend there. That was there. He was a dentist, and it was probably almost. Well, it was 2019, [00:12:50] I remember. We were we were there. And he says, you know, this is not really outsourcing. This is insourcing [00:12:55] because you’re providing team members who become part of an organisation. For [00:13:00] instance, if a dental office hires Gina to work in their office [00:13:05] from our Zimbabwe, Zambia, Costa Rica offices, we want that person to feel [00:13:10] part of their team. We don’t we don’t we don’t like the word because when you say that word outsourcing, it comes [00:13:15] with a little bit of a stigma, right? Like, okay, I’m going to be calling somebody overseas. I’m not going to be able to understand [00:13:20] what they’re saying. Um, and it’s just cheap, low level labour. Well, [00:13:25] ours is really very high in labour. Uh, again, university educated. [00:13:30] Uh, very we train them to go through these processes. So insourcing [00:13:35] is just that they become part of your interior team, if you will. Um, [00:13:40] the different roles have changed over the years. We first started with [00:13:45] just what we called a Dental coordinator, meaning they could do a host of functions. They [00:13:50] could help with front desk, they could answer the phone, they could help with scheduling. They could do, [00:13:55] uh, you know, the hygiene re care calling people back in for their cleanings, things [00:14:00] like that. And then we got to where it was becoming much more specialised.

JW Oliver: So a director of first impressions, [00:14:05] if you look across the gamut of of dental offices, whether it’s in the US or the UK, uh, [00:14:10] somewhere around 30% if not higher of incoming phone calls just don’t get answered. [00:14:15] So so many practices are saying, well, you know what I need? I need more marketing, [00:14:20] right? I need to spend more on digital advertising. I need to do more mailers. And we [00:14:25] say, well, first of all, just answer your phone. You know, let’s, let’s, let’s just keep it real [00:14:30] simple. Just pick up the calls. Um, you’ll you’ll solve some of your problems [00:14:35] right there. And so, um, what we’ve said is a director of First [00:14:40] Impressions is basically just that because, you know, as an, as a in a dental office can be super busy, [00:14:45] right? I mean, front person, maybe scheduling a call they may be having on the phone, they [00:14:50] may have somebody walking in, somebody walking out. So we say when you have a dedicated resource that [00:14:55] can spend time with you, find out what your needs are, have a little empathy with you on the phone. [00:15:00] Your success rate is going to be much higher to convert that to a to a long term patient. [00:15:05] So that’s, uh, the director of first impressions. And then there’s other things [00:15:10] we’ve got people doing. Uh, remote treatment coordinator work remote tcos who, uh, [00:15:15] we’ve worked with, we’ve, we’ve got all kinds of roles that can be performed, [00:15:20] accounting roles as well, obviously. Um, but but lots that can be done. [00:15:25] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Pay payroll and all of that payroll.

JW Oliver: Human resources. Kind of a [00:15:30] generalist, uh, helping with accounts payable. Uh, we even employ chartered [00:15:35] accountants. So people who are looking to do everything at even a higher level [00:15:40] is possible as well.

Payman Langroudi: So look, we’ve got enlightened. We’ve got, [00:15:45] uh, five of our employees in South Africa and, [00:15:50] um, it works very well for us. They actually we directly employ them ourselves. There’s no there’s [00:15:55] no middle middleman. Um, but if I had to sort of, sort of [00:16:00] straw man, the thing, it’s like, say, what is the worst thing about it? I’d say difficult [00:16:05] for us to get the culture over to [00:16:10] someone we’ve never met. And, you know, over after a while it does get through. But [00:16:15] we have been sometimes surprised, um, where someone’s done something that, [00:16:20] you know, we just wouldn’t think they would ever do and you suddenly realise, wow, I thought [00:16:25] I knew this person. But, you know, at the end of the day, I’ve never met this person. Now our people [00:16:30] are working from home, so they’ve I guess each one got their own [00:16:35] sort of culture, if you like their work ethic or whatever. Yours are all centrally. They [00:16:40] come in. So I guess they’ve got the culture of Zim Works or, you know, support des. Is [00:16:45] that right?

JW Oliver: Yeah. And look, I tell people all the time, [00:16:50] they have to they have to use what works. You know, I’ve had people say, you know, I can get somebody [00:16:55] for half the cost in the Philippines or India or maybe, maybe in down in Durban or Cape Town. [00:17:00] And what we do is, is we say, well, we just have a different model. Um, [00:17:05] we actually bring people in, put them through an interview process. We actually screen [00:17:10] them for language, skill sets, etc. they go through our our Dental coordinator program [00:17:15] so that they do get a skill set. They learn about the different practice management softwares [00:17:20] and and also just voice scripts, things they say and also the process. Um, [00:17:25] and then you’re right. Then we bring them into our culture where they’re going to be seated around other [00:17:30] people, other team members doing very similar tasks. We [00:17:35] employ subject matter experts, so if they’ve got a question, rather than having to call enlightened and say, [00:17:40] hey, I’ve got a question, how do this? They may be able to turn around and ask their subject matter expert, hey, how do I do this? [00:17:45] So it’s a little quicker. And as you know, um, working from [00:17:50] home and in places like Africa can have its challenges when one of the reasons [00:17:55] we don’t is, is many reasons, but but, uh, one, we want to develop that culture. That’s probably [00:18:00] number one. Number two power. You know, you need you need to have power full time and sustainability. [00:18:05] So, uh, we’ve got backup, uh, in place as well.

JW Oliver: Uh, [00:18:10] good internet connections is another one. But you’re right, creating that culture. I mean, Payman, [00:18:15] we’ve done all kinds of things. We now have a what we call the grind. It’s a it’s a coffee shop internal [00:18:20] to our own teams. We have it at all, all of our centres so they can go down. We’ve got a barista [00:18:25] that works there and they can get they can get cappuccinos and coffees. And I see you’re drinking a coffee now. See how it’s important [00:18:30] to have a little coffee And so they can go down and get that. We we do [00:18:35] events, we’ve got team sports, uh, we’ve got the fun zone where they can go down on their [00:18:40] breaks and, uh, play foosball or, uh, you know, they got we got bands that [00:18:45] happen, we got hot dog days. So again, all these things we, we do is intentional [00:18:50] to try to create a culture. I mean, our average age is, uh, just under 27, [00:18:55] 26.4 or 6 or something. And so, you know, they, [00:19:00] they, they really they love the professional environment. They kind of enjoy dressing up [00:19:05] nice and coming to work and getting a sense of self respect, if you will. Um, [00:19:10] so I think that’s why we’re different. But look, all, all modes work. It [00:19:15] really depends on the, the individuals. Some people don’t want to build [00:19:20] a centre because I gotta provide equipment or gotta provide, you [00:19:25] know, the workspace, etc.. So, um, I think we’ve just tried to be focussed in on what our [00:19:30] model is good at too.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s go through like a typical kind of use case. [00:19:35] I’m a practice in the UK. Let’s say I’m doing some [00:19:40] marketing with a with a local marketing agency. There’s leads [00:19:45] coming in. And you’re right, one of the biggest issues is I find the same thing. [00:19:50] There’s no point doing marketing if you’re not following up leads correctly. In fact, I’d say it’s [00:19:55] better not to do marketing, isn’t it? You go to the wrong place faster if people aren’t answering, [00:20:00] and we did a bunch of marketing for our users and listened to the phone calls and [00:20:05] it was so disastrous, um, that we stopped. We just stopped completely [00:20:10] doing that, and we realised we need this other entity that takes care [00:20:15] of this. So so I come, I don’t want to, you know, hire people here. So I come [00:20:20] to you and I say, look, I need a team for what happens. You sort of work out the scope of [00:20:25] the, the project, how how long, how many people so forth. Is that [00:20:30] right?

JW Oliver: Yeah. I think what we would if I, if I was doing what we call a discovery call with you, [00:20:35] I would say, uh, hey, doctor, tell me, tell me what you’re struggling with. You know what? What [00:20:40] are your main points? And you might just say something like, you know what? We’re we’ve got this marketing. [00:20:45] Uh, we got 500 calls. We only picked up 310 of them. [00:20:50] And then of the ones we picked up, we put them into our our CRM or our lead lead manager. [00:20:55] And, uh, you know, we haven’t we got a hundred of them we haven’t even followed up [00:21:00] with yet. And here we are three weeks down the road and and you know that. And that’s the reality of what [00:21:05] happens, right? You miss the calls. Some didn’t get followed up. A couple people didn’t answer the phone. When you [00:21:10] called them back. They set an appointment. They didn’t show up. And so that’s a [00:21:15] really good example. And maybe the best use case for the UK we found is is saying but [00:21:20] but there’s a trust factor here because you do marketing. And I was to come to you and say, you [00:21:25] know what Payman what I would do, I would push all of my new patient calls. [00:21:30] I would have it directed to this certain phone number. Right? I would push all those to our office and [00:21:35] we’re going to put two people together. They’re going to answer the calls from [00:21:40] 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.. So we’re going to catch early and late. And then the other thing they’re going [00:21:45] to do are things like, uh, we’re going to confirm the appointment they made.

JW Oliver: We’re going [00:21:50] to call them at least five times to to follow up on the call that they made. Uh, [00:21:55] we’re going to when they when they do schedule appointment, we’re going to follow up after the appointment [00:22:00] to, to see if they want to proceed with the treatment, etcetera, etcetera. So, you know, the new patient [00:22:05] journey is so important, as you know. Um, you know, I always get [00:22:10] cracked up when these, uh, some of these doctors will, will tell me, oh, yeah, we’re we’re [00:22:15] we’re we’re killing it. We’re seeing 162 new patients a month. I’m going. Well, [00:22:20] your back door must be wide open, because where where are your where [00:22:25] are your recurring patients going? Right. You must be losing them faster than you’re getting them. So there’s something [00:22:30] to be said about. Yeah, you have to have new patients, I get that, but you. There’s something to be said about creating [00:22:35] that user experience for these patients. Because you know this, you [00:22:40] can even send a marketing piece to a potential patient. [00:22:45] They read it, they go, they call your number, you [00:22:50] don’t answer. And they’re saying, man, I’ve really been wanting to do these clear aligners that, that, [00:22:55] that enlightened has listed here. Let me get online and see who else does that. Because you didn’t [00:23:00] answer the phone. They may drift off and they’ll call the next one on the line. Right. They’ll, [00:23:05] they’ll they’ll just pick up.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes that’s the, the decision making. I mean, I’m thinking of we do events. We do [00:23:10] events for dentists. Sometimes we want to do an event in a new city. [00:23:15] I’m trying to look for the best hotels. I contact the three best that I can find. Often [00:23:20] I end up working with the one that responds quickest and is most reactive. Often. [00:23:25]

JW Oliver: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: Absolutely. It’s an interesting thing because. Because you [00:23:30] forget how important that is sometimes. Um, you know, the the immediacy. [00:23:35] When I’m thinking about the problem, I’m looking for the solution, not 24 hours [00:23:40] later. Even, you know.

JW Oliver: Well, I’ll give you an example. This is a not related, but [00:23:45] it is related. I travel a lot. I’ve had two suitcases. [00:23:50] I’ve had suitcases. I’ve had all of these samsonite’s. I’ve had all the expensive ones. I’ve had [00:23:55] the cheap ones. Um, and when I’ve had to get service on many of those many times, I [00:24:00] have to send an email. They respond 72 hours later, they say, is it [00:24:05] under warranty? Did you file it with your airline? And I’ve got a little brand called noble. [00:24:10] Noble? Uh, I really liked it. I bought a few paces. I had one of the wheels [00:24:15] break. Send them an email within, I don’t know, a couple hours. They responded [00:24:20] back. Oh, Mr. Oliver, we’re so sorry that happened. Uh, we will be sending you an. We’ll send you a replacement [00:24:25] wheel out immediately. Didn’t ask me what happened. Didn’t ask me any questions, but they sent [00:24:30] me probably what amounted to AA3 dollars. We’ll probably what their cost was. [00:24:35] But now I’m like, oh, if I buy another suitcase, it’ll be noble. I mean, no doubt [00:24:40] about it. Right?

Payman Langroudi: You’re with them, with them forever. And you’re right. Yeah. The the way a company [00:24:45] handles a mishap really says a lot to the to the consumer really [00:24:50] does. That’s when you need them.

JW Oliver: More than when you do stuff better. Yeah. The way you handle something bad [00:24:55] says more than when you do stuff, right? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Absolutely right. Absolutely right. Tell me this. Um, [00:25:00] if you had to sort of say, what’s the worst thing about using your company, [00:25:05] what would that.

JW Oliver: Uh, I would say it’s the, the training [00:25:10] process, uh, because we’re going to train them on [00:25:15] the basic skill sets. Right? It would. And I would probably compare this to a dentist. You know, [00:25:20] you go to dental school, you get trained to be a dentist. But how good were you your first week? [00:25:25] How good were you your first month?

Payman Langroudi: You wouldn’t want to be that patient, I tell you.

JW Oliver: Yeah, yeah. [00:25:30] Please. No. Not me. Yeah. And and so I think what we have to [00:25:35] we, we we don’t have any long term contracts. We do these 30 day agreements, [00:25:40] but we have an initial 90 day onboarding p piece. And I think [00:25:45] that is the most critical because when I say look here’s Gina [00:25:50] we’ll keep picking on Gina here. But here here’s Gina. She’s been trained uh, [00:25:55] she’s got a very she’s actually done this for another office. Uh, she’s been trained in here. [00:26:00] You’re going to bring her in and you’re going to start using on her your software. Maybe you’re using Dental or [00:26:05] care stack or whatever. And you go, okay, now I gotta train them. The the worst part [00:26:10] is you have to train them for the next 90 days, because if [00:26:15] you’ll spend if somebody from the office will spend an hour a day. [00:26:20] Each morning. The first week. Maybe that’s four days a week and it starts to trail off. [00:26:25] You’re going to find at the end of 30 days, they picked up about 25 or 30% of what you need. [00:26:30] At the end of 60, maybe 50%. At the end of 90, they’re probably 7,580% [00:26:35] of where they need to be. So we try to set that expectation. But most [00:26:40] people are saying, oh, I can’t believe I did this. These people don’t know what they’re doing. Well, they [00:26:45] don’t know what you want them to do. And so that is probably where we struggle [00:26:50] the most is trying to explain that, that there is it’s it’s just like if you hired [00:26:55] somebody at your front desk, somebody’s got to train them, right?

Payman Langroudi: To train them.

JW Oliver: Yeah, you have to train them. So that’s [00:27:00] probably the that’s probably our biggest pain point and struggle is, is getting.

Payman Langroudi: That was when I was, I was [00:27:05] thinking when we were coming up to this point I was thinking, you know, could I use a company like this? And [00:27:10] uh, the first thing that came in my head is we use NetSuite as our, as our, um, [00:27:15] and netsuite’s really tough. And the first thing that came into my head was, [00:27:20] can I would I be able to train your team on NetSuite? [00:27:25] Um, I know we’ve we’ve trained these guys in South Africa on it. Um, and it took a [00:27:30] lot of work. It took a lot of work. So yeah, it’s interesting because that that’s that’s the sort [00:27:35] of pain point that you think that’s you think that’s going to be the obstacle. But you’re right in that even if I had someone sitting [00:27:40] in this office, I’d still have to train that person.

JW Oliver: Yeah. If you hired somebody, uh, [00:27:45] around the corner and they come in and out, you still gotta train them on NetSuite, right? Maybe a little easier because [00:27:50] you’re side by side, potentially. Yeah, yeah, but but the bottom [00:27:55] line is that there has to be some training, uh, as well. And you’re right, NetSuite is a a little [00:28:00] more complicated. As much as they have some sandboxes and some training videos and some libraries, there’s [00:28:05] there’s still a process.

Payman Langroudi: So I want to get into your faith in [00:28:10] so much as is it something that has evolved? [00:28:15] Is it something that you were just born into. And, you know, for the sake of the argument, you know, trained [00:28:20] into. And where I’m really interested is when was your faith most tested? [00:28:25]

JW Oliver: Mm. Oh, wow. Uh, that’s a really good question. [00:28:30] Um, so. You [00:28:35] know, I grew up in, uh, a faith based family. [00:28:40] So we, we went to the Methodist church. We grew up in a small church. Uh, um, even [00:28:45] from coming from a divorced family. Well, my mom made sure on Sundays we were [00:28:50] we were in church. Right. And, uh, we, of course, you had your Sunday best on and and, uh, you look the part. [00:28:55] Um, I definitely through high school, um, through [00:29:00] through through university and even post [00:29:05] schooling. Uh, I just kind of fell away. I wasn’t I wasn’t antagonistic, [00:29:10] I wasn’t, uh, you know, I didn’t become an atheist or agnostic. I just like, okay, well, [00:29:15] Faith’s over there and and not. I have to say, [00:29:20] um, there was a time I was, I was in it was in the summer [00:29:25] of 94. Um, I was business was not going that [00:29:30] good. I was weighing about, oh, £80 [00:29:35] more than I do right now. Which which is, I don’t know, 40, 45 kilos greater than I am [00:29:40] today. And and, uh, I was, I was, I was in a relationship that I [00:29:45] didn’t like. And, and my father passed away and, uh, kind of suddenly of [00:29:50] a heart attack and, and, uh, in the summer of 94 and a young guy, 62 and [00:29:55] so or 61 at the time. And I remember thinking, man, what am I [00:30:00] doing? You know, and that was when God just really kind of stirred in me that [00:30:05] I could live a different life.

JW Oliver: I could be in a relationship that I wanted to [00:30:10] be. I could treat my body as a temple and and eat better and and you [00:30:15] know and do different there and and I realised I was in love with this girl who’s [00:30:20] now my wife. We’ve been married 31 years now and, and so I just decided to make a holistic [00:30:25] change. But I think it was a nudging, uh, at the time, through some, through some tragedy [00:30:30] of loss of my father and, and through some realisation that I really [00:30:35] didn’t have a, a life based on anything. Right? I was just I was just going through the [00:30:40] motions. Um, and so that was a, that was a big, a big turning point with [00:30:45] me. And, and I tell you, what’s happened since then is my [00:30:50] Christian faith has become stronger because [00:30:55] every time something, any type of calamity happens and they’re all, you know, I [00:31:00] remember I read one time they said, you’re either you’re either coming out of a [00:31:05] problem, you’re going, you’re going into a problem, or you’re in the middle [00:31:10] of the problem. Right? It’s one of those three. You’re coming out, you’re in the middle or you’re you’re you’re coming out into one. [00:31:15] And I think that’s true. And I and I think what I have to do every time something happens [00:31:20] that I see is what short, you know, short [00:31:25] term could seem bad.

JW Oliver: You’re like, what do I need to learn from this? And, uh, and that’s what it’s really [00:31:30] taught me. I can I can lean on God, I can lean on Christ [00:31:35] and say, hey, man, I, I need to, uh, I need to figure out [00:31:40] what it is I can do. You know, I now carry these around with me all the time. It’s, uh. I don’t [00:31:45] know if you can see that. It’s my little Jesus. It’s very small. Um, I hand these out [00:31:50] all the time. I buy them and just hand them out, and I say, you know, sometimes, sometimes to get through the day, I [00:31:55] just need a little Jesus. And so it’s really helped me to stay centred. It’s [00:32:00] helped me to, um, I won’t get too deep into it, [00:32:05] but one of my, one of my favourite scriptures is Ephesians 429. It says, let no unwholesome talk come out [00:32:10] of your mouth, but only that which builds others up. And to me. Payman that I have [00:32:15] to look at how I treat people. Um. The words matter. [00:32:20] Words we say matter. And as a leader of an organisation, and [00:32:25] again, I think there’s a big difference between a leader and a manager. A leader of an organisation, the person casting [00:32:30] the vision. Man, you can lower the temperature in a room with just 2 or 3 words, or you [00:32:35] can raise that temperature.

Payman Langroudi: Body language even. Right.

JW Oliver: Body. Oh, yeah. Just coming in. [00:32:40] I mean, what if I came to this podcast and I said, hey, Payman, how you doing today? You know. [00:32:45] Yeah. Boy, it’s good to be here. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. You’d be like, [00:32:50] how do I get this guy off of here as quickly as I can? So, yeah. And so, [00:32:55] so to me, those simple things, uh, I love [00:33:00] the I love they asked when they asked Jesus, you know, what was the what was the most important scripture? And [00:33:05] he says, uh, love your neighbour with all thy heart and, uh, and and, [00:33:10] uh, and love God. And I think that was learning to love our neighbours and learning to love [00:33:15] ourself, uh, has been real important. It’s been that really good journey for me as well.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:33:20] think it’s it’s it’s a beautiful thing that you have a faith. It’s clear that, uh, it helps [00:33:25] you in your life. Yeah. I guess when, when you, when you’re a little bit lost, you kind of look [00:33:30] in that direction and get answers. Um. I don’t have a faith. Yeah, and it’s actually [00:33:35] quite hard. It’s actually quite hard. It can be hard. Um, I’ve got a friend. He’s a devout, you know, sort of, [00:33:40] uh, he’s he’s actually a muslim. Um, yeah. And sometimes he’s going through something difficult, [00:33:45] and suddenly his eyes were kind of glazed over and not in a bad way, in a nice way. [00:33:50] And he’ll say, but you know what? I know it’s going to be okay. And I’m thinking, well, how the hell do you know it’s going to [00:33:55] be okay? And with him, you know, he’s he’s got his connection to God. But [00:34:00] how do you process things like terrible things happening? [00:34:05] Kid gets born, dies the next day, you know, because of a bomb dropping on top of him or [00:34:10] something. What do you. How do you process that? Is that okay? God moves in mysterious [00:34:15] ways, if you like. But what about for that kid? I mean, what what happened there from [00:34:20] the God perspective?

JW Oliver: Yeah. Look, I think that’s as I think anybody of [00:34:25] any faith. That’s probably the hardest one, right? I mean, when we see, uh, why is there a war in [00:34:30] the Ukraine? Why is there war in Gaza? Why are why is there a shooting in Washington, D.C.? [00:34:35] You know, all this stuff that you, you, you realise [00:34:40] or you try to understand why? You know, people say, why would a good God do that? And I always say, well, why would a bad [00:34:45] devil do that? Right? So from coming from my background, we [00:34:50] believe that the the fall of man was, you know, Adam and Eve in, in the garden [00:34:55] and that and that by, by taking that bite out of the apple. And that [00:35:00] could be an analogy. But by, by stepping into the unknown, it revealed [00:35:05] the evil in the world. And and I don’t think God allows [00:35:10] bad stuff to happen. I think there’s evil in the world that does bad things. [00:35:15] Um, and I’ve had that stuff happen in my life. You know, my my wife lost her mother just [00:35:20] a few years ago. Suddenly it’s like, well, why did that happen? She lost a brother to a a drug overdose [00:35:25] suddenly at age 50. Wow. Why did that happen? Um, and so I [00:35:30] struggle with that one. But ultimately, I think it comes around to, uh, [00:35:35] in in my faith, it’s. I have to have trust. And [00:35:40] that’s the faith in something greater.

JW Oliver: Right? In that there is a greater [00:35:45] good. Uh, to be done. And all I can do is have that faith and [00:35:50] also be a light. I mean, have you ever. I’m guessing your friend, too. And hopefully with [00:35:55] me, I know I, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in a room Payman and I’ve said, uh, [00:36:00] talking to somebody and they’re just going on and on. Says, are you a Christian? [00:36:05] And nine times out of ten, maybe 99 times out of 100, they go, how [00:36:10] did you know that? And I say, man, it’s just written all over your face. Your joy, [00:36:15] your your your zeal for life, the way you smile, the way you put [00:36:20] yourself out there. And I think it’s true because when you have this, I’m not saying other [00:36:25] people can’t have it, but I think when you’ve got this light inside of you that shines pretty [00:36:30] bright, then it’s just it attracts other people as well. And I believe that to be [00:36:35] true. And I don’t look, I’ve, I’ve got great Muslim friends, I’ve got great non-believers, [00:36:40] I’ve got some really good friends who are Buddhists. Uh, and we can have great conversations [00:36:45] about who’s right and who’s wrong. But at the end of the day, I think you just got to love everybody, right? [00:36:50] I, I love people of no faith. I love people of other faiths. And I think that’s that’s [00:36:55] really the bottom line.

Payman Langroudi: I like that, I like that. Back to support [00:37:00] deeds. What are the headlines like? How many humans work for you now. So [00:37:05] you’ve got the two centres in Zimbabwe, one in Zambia, one in, um, Costa [00:37:10] Rica.

JW Oliver: Correct?

Payman Langroudi: How many humans are we talking?

JW Oliver: Uh, 1700. [00:37:15] We just went over the 1700 mark. Uh, our biggest one is [00:37:20] in Harare, which is in Zimbabwe, where we started. Uh, we opened up an IT support [00:37:25] centre for healthcare. So we we do it support for medical dental facilities [00:37:30] who are needing help with their, you know, merging their PMS with their imaging [00:37:35] software or they’re just having IT problems. Uh, so we developed that and then uh, [00:37:40] our bilingual centre in Costa Rica and then and then Zambia is growing quite rapidly, uh, [00:37:45] just because the availability of space there. And we’ll open up one more geography. [00:37:50] Uh, we haven’t announced it yet, but, uh, the first of the year, we’ve got one more spot that [00:37:55] we’ll go into, and, and then we’ll kind of settle into that, uh, at that point.

Payman Langroudi: Which [00:38:00] side of the world.

JW Oliver: Uh, be in Africa. Yeah. We’re looking at one more in Africa. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:38:05] then what about, like, the org chart? How many people do you have centrally [00:38:10] in the US?

JW Oliver: Uh, us very, very few. We’ve got, uh, I believe [00:38:15] about ten people. Maybe there’s 11 in the ten. I think it is in the US. [00:38:20] Uh, and the rest are all in Africa. And we have Gina in the UK.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:38:25] wow. I assumed there’d be, like, a big sort of head office in the US.

JW Oliver: No, [00:38:30] uh, we actually do not even have an office. We work remotely from our. Everybody [00:38:35] from home. Um, and, uh, then most [00:38:40] of our support teams and our administrative supports, I mean, we have them in each office. [00:38:45] Office, as you can imagine. You’ve got to have it support and talent acquisition and human resources [00:38:50] and whatnot. And then our Harare office probably has the biggest where they have, uh, [00:38:55] support teams there too.

Payman Langroudi: But then the sales role, your internal like your you selling [00:39:00] your services to dentists. Is that done from Harare as well?

JW Oliver: Uh, both. We’ve got, [00:39:05] uh, some, some sales executives in the US, uh, only about four that that [00:39:10] go to events and and participate in different, uh, you know, as you know, there’s [00:39:15] so many events in the US on a weekly basis. So we, we attend probably 40, 35 [00:39:20] or so a year. Um, and then we have a big, uh, what we call business [00:39:25] development teams and support teams for the sales in our Harare office, [00:39:30] which, uh, there’s probably another and, and Zambia as well. There’s probably another [00:39:35] 15, 12 that support the sales from that angle as well.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:39:40] would you say each of the operators in in Zimbabwe, for instance, works fully [00:39:45] for, for one company? Does that mean what if I need the guy one [00:39:50] day a week? Does he not. He works for another company for the other four days a week. Is that right?

JW Oliver: Uh, [00:39:55] yeah. We don’t we don’t do any part. Well, I shouldn’t say that. We’ve got a program now with our executive [00:40:00] assistants. We do provide personal assistants, executive assistants to to a large group. [00:40:05] We do do a half and half. So you could you could select hey, I need 20 hours a week and [00:40:10] then somebody else will work the other 20. But in the Dental space it’s full time only. So we [00:40:15] provide dental offices with a full time person. So they are fully employed [00:40:20] and tethered to one, uh, company on [00:40:25] this.

Payman Langroudi: On this pod, we like to talk about mistakes. And generally the guest would be [00:40:30] a dentist. So we could talk about clinical mistakes so that we can all learn from them. But [00:40:35] I’d like you you know what comes to mind when you think of business mistakes. And [00:40:40] we could all learn from yours.

JW Oliver: Um, yeah. You [00:40:45] know what I, I well, probably two things. Um, number [00:40:50] one, I think when, when, when and I’m going back to my equipment business [00:40:55] and the 2000. Um. I [00:41:00] think whenever I didn’t react fast enough to changing economics [00:41:05] when when the business slowed down. As an example, I was having this [00:41:10] conversation with a couple of people I used to work with yesterday. Um, and, and [00:41:15] matter of fact, it’s we’re the old company that I sold. And I said, you know, the biggest mistakes I made was, [00:41:20] was hanging on to a large group of people while the business was in decline. [00:41:25] So, you know, let’s say you had 80 people working and yet the business was off by [00:41:30] 30%. You’re like, okay, we’re going to we’re going to get our business back. And and [00:41:35] some of those really broke me. And, and, um, that was on me for, for trying [00:41:40] to, uh, invest in those people. In reality, I needed to protect the business. [00:41:45] So, so I would say not reacting quick enough to changing, uh, [00:41:50] economics or industry trends is number one. And I think that could apply [00:41:55] to a dentist as well, right? Maybe he says, I’m not going to do those, uh, [00:42:00] get into those clear aligners or I’m and or I’m going to keep doing clear aligners and nobody’s [00:42:05] buying them. And yet I’ve got five people that are focussed on clear aligners. Um, and then the [00:42:10] other one would be making sure and this is probably the biggest [00:42:15] one, you know, I love what Zig Ziglar said years ago. He said failure [00:42:20] is not a person, it’s just an event. And we [00:42:25] fail. I fail a little bit every day. And I definitely have had big failures, [00:42:30] financial, um, relational friendships. And I [00:42:35] think the key is to to really learn to, to to reflect and learn from those, [00:42:40] those mistakes and make sure they don’t happen again. So maybe a failure [00:42:45] to learn from your mistakes would be the biggest one. And reacting quick to those those changing economic times [00:42:50] too.

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting that you say that, you know, because your first point, [00:42:55] the resilience, if you like, definitely is one of the [00:43:00] key skills or one of the key sort of sort of important things that you need in business to stick [00:43:05] at it and keep showing up every day. Um, but as the environment [00:43:10] changes, sometimes resilience, if you’re that guy who never gives up, [00:43:15] it could be your biggest strength. But it could also be your biggest weakness.

JW Oliver: Your biggest weakness. [00:43:20] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I think.

JW Oliver: Pride gets in our way. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I’ve been guilty of it as well. Not even [00:43:25] pride. It’s like, I don’t know that giving up is an option. You know, like [00:43:30] it’s my blind spot. It’s it’s also it’s also my biggest strength as well because the first [00:43:35] six years of the company, we were making losses and just, just, you know, just trying to get through it. [00:43:40] You know, someone else might have given up after two years. Yeah. And so knowing, you know, [00:43:45] I guess that’s the skill, the pivoting kind of thing. And when you’ve had new businesses [00:43:50] and you’ve had a few, How long would you give it before? I mean, the [00:43:55] nature of entrepreneurship is you always. You’re so optimistic. You [00:44:00] always think the next thing that I’m going to do is going to be the big thing. How long do you give [00:44:05] it before deciding? How do you know what? How does one decide that.

JW Oliver: You know [00:44:10] that that that’s a that’s a really good question, because I [00:44:15] probably have always, uh, tried [00:44:20] to long with businesses that were, were, were failing. I remember I, I bought a, I [00:44:25] bought a gym years ago and it was struggling and I was like, oh, I’m, [00:44:30] I can make this work. You know, I’m, I’m super smart. And I was, gosh, [00:44:35] this is 20, 30 years ago now, 25 years ago, I remember I can make this work. I’m I’m great [00:44:40] at marketing. I’m a people person. And and, you know, I went in there and, um, [00:44:45] probably stayed around a year or two long and [00:44:50] realise, man, I probably lost half $1 million trying to make this thing [00:44:55] work. You know, I just kept pouring into it and pouring into it when everybody [00:45:00] around you, including my wife, was like, what are you doing? Like, give [00:45:05] it up. Right. Let’s just close it down. But you’re like, no, I think I can make it happen. [00:45:10] And that comes from I don’t know if you’re familiar with, like, the Enneagram charts. I’m a, I’m [00:45:15] a I’m a seven on the Enneagram. You know, I love new stuff. And I want to make it happen. And I want [00:45:20] to I’m excited about this new venture, and I’m always optimistic, but that’s definitely can be a detriment. [00:45:25] So what I would say to that is making sure you surround yourself with really [00:45:30] good people.

JW Oliver: For instance, I’ve got a really good, uh, CEO Rick and helps keep [00:45:35] me grounded in like, you know, he’s very he’s very tactful about it, but he’s like, yeah, you [00:45:40] think we should really do that? I don’t know about that. That’s. Let’s think through that. Right? You’re [00:45:45] like, okay, well, maybe I better heed a little warning to that or that’s not [00:45:50] working out. I do believe I act a lot faster now. I remember, uh, [00:45:55] a little over a year ago, we were going to give the the veterinary industry a try. And [00:46:00] so we went to some events, spent some good money, did some marketing, and really, we either [00:46:05] we just didn’t know enough about the business or it just wasn’t there. But I quickly [00:46:10] was able to say, all right, I’m done with that. You know, let’s let’s move on. And so I think [00:46:15] being able to, to to learn to make quicker decisions is good because you’re right, you’re going to be [00:46:20] the same as me. Like I can pull it out. I can do it. I’m just going to sell more. You know, [00:46:25] I used to say, I’m going to sell us out of this problem. It’s like, that’s probably a bad a bad [00:46:30] angle to go. It’s not a good action plan.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a similar question with people, isn’t [00:46:35] it? You know, like when I look around at my friends who run companies, everyone does it differently. [00:46:40] Some people will hire, hire, hire and fire quickly as well until [00:46:45] they find the right person. And then you get other people. I’m a bit like this. [00:46:50] I’ll make excuses for the person. I’ll blame myself. I’ll change their role trying [00:46:55] to make it work. And I guess it’s part of the same issue about not giving up, right? Um, [00:47:00] and, you know, it’s a similar thing with people as it is with, um, with, with projects. [00:47:05] But I had do you know, uh, Pearl. Pearl AI.

JW Oliver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:47:10]

Payman Langroudi: I had a fear on the, the CEO on this pod, and I was asking him, [00:47:15] I just had to fire someone once who had done nothing wrong. Um, [00:47:20] it’s simply the job had overtaken what this person could [00:47:25] do. And I remember thinking to myself, I will never fire this person because when Covid came, [00:47:30] they were just brilliant, brilliant, absolutely brilliant. You know, they said, look, don’t even pay me. [00:47:35] Um, whenever you get out of it, I thought, this is someone that’s going to be with me for life. [00:47:40] And then three years later, I’m thinking I need to fire this person. So I asked a fear. [00:47:45] I said, have you ever you know, he’s got a couple of unicorns. I said to him, um, [00:47:50] have you ever had to fire anyone who didn’t deserve it? And, you know kind of what you said, right? You had [00:47:55] this big team and you had, you know, not not all of those people or the ones that you should have gotten rid of [00:48:00] would have deserved it. They just, you know, the market had turned. And he said, every [00:48:05] single person I’ve ever fired has been like that. I was like, what do you mean? And he [00:48:10] said, look, uh, if they’ve done something wrong, they would have been fired by someone like their line manager [00:48:15] well below me. Yeah, right. Right. And he said he’s done it like, 300 [00:48:20] times.

JW Oliver: Well, you know, that’s interesting.

Payman Langroudi: I, I lost innocence.

JW Oliver: That’s that’s [00:48:25] a good I mean, that’s a really good point because, um, I’m like I’m, [00:48:30] I’m, I would lean towards more like you like, oh, that’s I’m what am I doing wrong? I’m not managing. I’m not leading [00:48:35] this person well. But you know, there’s there’s a there’s a couple of reasons [00:48:40] I think you have to let, let people, uh, go or relegate them to a different [00:48:45] role. Uh, one would be there. Just not a good culture fit, you know? And [00:48:50] I’ll just use a silly example. But, you know, you go to events and your leadership [00:48:55] team is getting up and having dinner, and they’re getting up and going to the gym at 530 the next [00:49:00] morning. Then there’s that one guy who stayed out and got drunk till two in the morning, and he waddles [00:49:05] in the conventions at 930. You know, you start to look around and go, is that person a good fit for our [00:49:10] organisation? Right. Is he does he have the same vision and values as where we’re going? Again I’m not. [00:49:15] Look, I drink too I’m not saying drinking is a bad thing. I’m just saying people have different ways that they [00:49:20] they look at things. And then I think there’s people, you know, we just we just started challenging [00:49:25] our executive leadership team, um, because we have an objective [00:49:30] by 2032 to get to 20,000 team members. So we’ve got a very aggressive growth [00:49:35] plan.

JW Oliver: And, uh, we’re, we’re marching towards that. But next [00:49:40] year we’re going to have some tremendous growth. It could be as high as about 60%. And [00:49:45] I’ve said, um, are you the person who can lead an organisation [00:49:50] that employs 3000 people in your team, whatever that [00:49:55] department was? And I’m trying to get people to self evaluate a little bit as well [00:50:00] to say, are you the right person? And, you know, somebody may come to you and say, [00:50:05] hey, you need to find a replacement for me. I’m not I can’t, I don’t I don’t even want to [00:50:10] do this because a lot of people, you know, Payman a lot of people will tell you, man, I want to grow. I want to [00:50:15] grow a grow this massive company, $100 million and making $10 million [00:50:20] a year. But they really don’t. They’re really happy with their status quo, [00:50:25] and they don’t really want you to upset that. They may agree with you on the rah rah side, but [00:50:30] in reality, they don’t have the capacity nor really the drive to do that. So, uh, [00:50:35] as a fear pointed out, I think I think what you have to do is, is say, do I have [00:50:40] the right people on the team? And you may have to let people go that have done nothing wrong. Um, they’re [00:50:45] just not the right fit to where you have the vision for where the company is going to.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting. [00:50:50] Very interesting that you go from running a [00:50:55] company of 20 people to running a company of 20,000 people in [00:51:00] a few years.

JW Oliver: And look, I questioned myself. I actually had a conversation earlier [00:51:05] this morning. I was like, you know, I don’t know if I’m the right guy. I don’t know if I’m the visionary to run a company that size. [00:51:10] I may have to bring somebody in and run it at a different level. I think self-awareness [00:51:15] is big.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about authoring. Authoring books, because to me it seems [00:51:20] like I mean, even if I was able to write one book, there’s [00:51:25] like, you know, they say there’s one book and everyone. Um, what’s the process [00:51:30] of even writing a book? Do you find it really easy? Like, is it is it [00:51:35] the words just flow from you, or do you use a ghost-writer or do you, uh, dictate [00:51:40] into a recording machine. How do you do it? What’s your process?

JW Oliver: I’ve done [00:51:45] it both ways. Um, and now we’re in the process. [00:51:50] I’m actually in the process of a couple of more books I want to do next year. One of them is more personal. Um, [00:51:55] uh, kind of a life, a little bit of a more of a life story. And then the others are some industry, and [00:52:00] I guess, you know what it was initially, I wanted to be [00:52:05] this guy who had a typewriter. And, you know, I blocked out the world. [00:52:10] And I sat on a beach, and I.

Payman Langroudi: Romantic. The romantic.

JW Oliver: Yeah. And I was [00:52:15] just visioning. And I closed my eyes and I could just type and write for hours. But [00:52:20] the reality is, my mind doesn’t work like that. My mind drifts into, oh, [00:52:25] I need to call Payman this afternoon at two. And then I start writing and go, oh man, I need to go pick up the [00:52:30] laundry, you know? And so that doesn’t work for me. So what I what we have now is we have [00:52:35] a creative team, um, that are creative writers. And so what I [00:52:40] do is, is I now set out what the agenda looks like, right? Like, [00:52:45] here’s the headlines, here’s the main chapters, and then here’s the the bits and pieces, and then [00:52:50] let them craft the chapters and the words. And then I can go edit and change that. [00:52:55] And I feel that’s better because I know what I want to say, but I’m and [00:53:00] I would think I have an okay vocabulary and I can write okay, and I can do it, [00:53:05] but I don’t want to do it, if that makes sense. Yeah. So it’s like I have the I have [00:53:10] the vision of what I want to get on paper, but then I need to let somebody else really put the pen to paper.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:53:15] what’s the motivation? I mean, let’s start with the sort of the business motivation for writing [00:53:20] your book. Are you trying to sell books and profit on the sale of the book? [00:53:25] No. You’re giving the books away to.

JW Oliver: Yeah, we give them away. Uh, I think it’s [00:53:30] two things. I think one, it does position yourself as a, as an authority [00:53:35] in the role. And, and quite frankly, we probably well we are we’re the biggest we’re the biggest [00:53:40] Dental outsourcing company in the United States or the UK, right? I mean, we we definitely [00:53:45] are positioned in that. So I can write from a position of authority, at least in that realm. [00:53:50] So that’s number one. You know, you yeah. You know I get amazed at people will come by [00:53:55] and they’ll pick up a book and sometimes they’re like, would you sign this for me? I’m going, look, this is not a this [00:54:00] is just a it’s like a lead magnet for me, right? I’m like, okay. Um, so I [00:54:05] think it’s I think it’s number one to position yourself, uh, from a position of authority. And [00:54:10] then I think the second thing is educating, uh, we do try to write them so [00:54:15] that the questions you’re asking right now, we put it into a I thought I [00:54:20] had one right here. It’s a, you know, it’s an easy read, 100 pages or something. You could read it on an aeroplane or [00:54:25] two flights or something to let somebody know, hey, here’s what we do, right? And here’s how we [00:54:30] do it, and here’s why we’re different. So I think it’s those two reasons. It’s it’s definitely, [00:54:35] to to put yourself in that position of authority and then also [00:54:40] to educate people. I’ve got a personal one. I want to write that. That’s more about my journey and [00:54:45] overcoming failure and coming from a divorced family and, and and I want [00:54:50] I might see that as again, not selling books, but could I help somebody? Could I really help somebody who’s [00:54:55] going through a difficult time to realise this is just a blip on the radar screen? [00:55:00] It doesn’t matter, you know, it’s just a small piece.

Payman Langroudi: I think coming from a divorced family [00:55:05] has, I don’t want to call it like an upside as such. But do you think that you’re sort of more [00:55:10] self-reliant, more grown up, because you [00:55:15] came from a divorced family? You know, you know how they say pressure kind of forms you. And [00:55:20] sometimes I worry with my kids, you know, they’ve got it too easy in a way. You know, um, I remember [00:55:25] when Covid happened. I remember thinking, this is the first challenge my kids [00:55:30] have ever been through. You know, suddenly schools closed. And in a way I was [00:55:35] happy about it. Of course, I wasn’t happy about people dying, but in a way I was happy about it just [00:55:40] for them to see. Because, you know, I come from Iran. We had a revolution. There was a, you know, [00:55:45] a fire with loads of people, died in a cinema, then caught, um, soldiers on the [00:55:50] streets and helicopters in the air and people getting executed and and then and then run [00:55:55] away. Come here. Um, when you came here, you were very well prepared for [00:56:00] difficulty because you’d had so much difficulty before. Um, so from that [00:56:05] perspective, do you think, do you think your, your childhood and the divorced family, with all of its issues, [00:56:10] formed you into a stronger person?

JW Oliver: Oh, there’s no doubt about [00:56:15] it. And and to a side note on that, I’ve, I’ve met so many Persians, uh, [00:56:20] Iranians that that I’ve met over the years. And most of them are quite successful. And, [00:56:25] and I think it’s because they saw this tragedy. They saw these things happen. [00:56:30] I think it was the reason there was so many, uh, successful people that came out of World War one, World [00:56:35] War Two, a lot of these, these the, you know, the, as I say, the last great generation because they [00:56:40] had this. And you’re right, if you think about if you think about our children’s lives, [00:56:45] my my kids are both around 30 years old. They’ve they’ve not faced any [00:56:50] wars. They’ve not faced any famines. They’ve not seen really big economic downturns. [00:56:55] You know, even the oh seven call that a bubble, right? I don’t think they haven’t really [00:57:00] seen anything. That’s, that’s you know, they haven’t seen violence in the really the streets and [00:57:05] they just haven’t seen any of that. And so you’re right, I think it, uh, um, why [00:57:10] we want to protect our kids. I think at the same time we, we’re like, well, yeah, you need to experience [00:57:15] some of this tragedy. But then his parents would go, well, wait a minute. Not that not that much. Hey, hang on. That’s that’s too much. Yeah. [00:57:20] Dial that back just a bit. Um, but but, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tough times [00:57:25] make soft people, right? That that old.

JW Oliver: Time. It’s it’s it’s exactly right. [00:57:30] And uh, and so, yeah, no, there’s no doubt. I mean, I [00:57:35] always tell, I think, I think coming from a poor family, [00:57:40] yet we had we had everything. I mean, I was in church on Sundays. We we had something to eat on the table. [00:57:45] We got one new pair of tennis shoes every year. Um, I went to a very, [00:57:50] uh, very, very poor elementary school with a bunch of kids who are still great friends [00:57:55] today. Right. I’ve learned to adapt to all these different levels, but no [00:58:00] doubt about it, you know, you know that diamonds are made under pressure, [00:58:05] right? And I think that when you look at that, how [00:58:10] you grew up, single parent, uh, mother and dad, uh, divorced [00:58:15] and, and really going through difficult times on my own. I think [00:58:20] you’re right. It does it does form you into who you are today and just make you a [00:58:25] much better person. You know, I the only thing. It’s funny how those little things affect you. [00:58:30] I gotta tell you this little funny story. I was, um, ten years ago. I was at a marriage conference. [00:58:35] My wife and I. I was here in Dallas, and I remember the, uh, the gentleman speaking. [00:58:40]

JW Oliver: He was talking about what happens when people go through divorces. He goes many [00:58:45] times if they if a parent has left them when they get married, they’re going to always [00:58:50] think that their spouse is going to leave them. And I literally my wife was sitting next to me and [00:58:55] I looked at her and went. I didn’t even realise for the first 20 years of our marriage [00:59:00] that I have always been afraid that you were going to leave me. Wow. Right. That I [00:59:05] was going to wake up because my dad literally left in the middle of the night and was gone. And, I mean, we [00:59:10] ended up with a great relationship as a father. But, you know, I thought that was going to happen to me. And until [00:59:15] that guy said that ten years ago, I was like, why am I so worried about, [00:59:20] is my wife going to be is she going to run off with somebody else? Is she love me? And I realised it was [00:59:25] back directed at my father. So yeah, we learned a lot as we go through and realising that, [00:59:30] uh, everything has leaves an indelible mark on us as well.

Payman Langroudi: But you managed [00:59:35] to keep the contact with your dad, did you?

JW Oliver: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, we actually had a great relationship. [00:59:40] Uh, he suffered. He was manic depressive, so he suffered from some some issues until the [00:59:45] day he died. But, uh, I spent my summers with him. He lived in North Carolina. I was in Texas, and. [00:59:50] But I spent, uh, probably 10 or 12, probably 12 years in a row. I spent my [00:59:55] whole summers out there. So he was really. And he helped form me, who I was a lot with, with discipline. [01:00:00] And it was yes, sir and no, sir. He came from a military background. So, you know, I picked up a [01:00:05] lot of good things from him, and I picked up a lot of good things from my mom, which which is how we get to where we are today. [01:00:10]

Payman Langroudi: You know, on that subject of of pressure forming, you, uh, I [01:00:15] know these days, uh, immigration is kind of, uh, it seems like it’s been [01:00:20] it’s been big up as the biggest issue in all these Western countries. Um, [01:00:25] but Sometimes, you know, you talk to the Uber driver who’s a [01:00:30] guy from Zambia for the sake of the argument. And you know [01:00:35] how you when you look at an older person, you sometimes forget that older [01:00:40] person was a younger person 20 years ago or 30 years ago. You just you just see them as that. And [01:00:45] when you look at a cab driver, you just see him as a cab driver. Um, but you [01:00:50] have a little conversation with him and you realise that this guy has a degree, [01:00:55] uh, was an engineer. He’s gotten up and come all halfway [01:01:00] across the world, which makes him, you know, a get up and go kind of person. You [01:01:05] know, maybe Uber driving for a for six months while he supports his family and, [01:01:10] you know, maybe starts a business, let’s say, for the sake of the argument. Um, it’s [01:01:15] interesting it’s interesting that often, you know, I don’t know, man, with everything [01:01:20] going on in the world today, um, I feel like immigrants are being used as, like [01:01:25] a cheap shot. Yeah, and we’ve had it in the UK before, you know, maybe 15, [01:01:30] 20 years ago. It was. They used to blame everything on, uh, people claiming benefits, you [01:01:35] know, uh, single moms, single moms used to, used to get benefits. Some of them used to get a [01:01:40] a council house. And people would say, yeah, these women, these these girls go and have children just to [01:01:45] get a council. And, you know, blaming someone, always blaming someone for the problem. And interestingly, always looking [01:01:50] down, not very often looking up. Yeah, exactly. [01:01:55] Um, how’s your view? How do you feel about everything going on in [01:02:00] the world? I mean, we don’t want to get politics, but you’re a politician.

JW Oliver: No, no, I think it’s a I think it’s.

Payman Langroudi: A politics [01:02:05] major. Yeah.

JW Oliver: No. And yeah, 100%. Yeah. I, I’m [01:02:10] always very interested in it. I think that I think what’s happened is we’ve crossed [01:02:15] a line between, uh, immigration and illegal immigration. Right. [01:02:20] Um, my, my wife’s own father at at [01:02:25] two years old, uh, was four years old. Was on a boat that came [01:02:30] from England to the US. He came with his mother and, uh, they were divorced and she resettled. [01:02:35] They ended up in Iowa. And. And his name is on Ellis Island. You know, it’s on the documents [01:02:40] when he came across in Ellis Island. And so, you know, I see things like that. [01:02:45] And those are great stories. But I always say they did it legally, right. They came across, they did it [01:02:50] the right way. They got the right papers and and look some of the I’ll give you a quick example. [01:02:55] Um, 6 or 8, eight months ago, I was taking an Uber from the airport [01:03:00] back home and a nice young man, BJ from Nepal, driving [01:03:05] the car. And I’m like, where are you from? He said, oh, I’m from Kathmandu. I said, oh, I went to Kathmandu a few years [01:03:10] ago, did Everest base camp. We got to talking about all this stuff and, and uh, he said, yeah, I’m a, [01:03:15] I’m actually, uh, have an engineering degree or a computer science degree, and I’d like to get into [01:03:20] this.

JW Oliver: I’m like, well, we’re looking to hire somebody at our imaging company there. I said the last [01:03:25] I talked to them, they were looking for somebody in it. So, um, I just said, well, here, I introduce [01:03:30] you to our general manager. And they went from there. Well, he’s he’s working there now, and he’s actually, uh, you kind of [01:03:35] understand this. He actually went out and is now installing cone beam X-rays and bringing them back in [01:03:40] for refurbishing. And I’m thinking, but this guy works hard. He was he was driving an Uber. [01:03:45] He was looking he was working two jobs at the time. Now he’s got a full time job. I think he [01:03:50] still does some driving on the weekends whatnot. But that’s a good story of immigration. And he also [01:03:55] came here legally. Uh, so I think we love those stories. [01:04:00] And those those typically are the stories you love to hear about [01:04:05] because they’re becoming self-made people as well. They’re making a difference, changing their family and [01:04:10] making a bigger impact. So I, I think those I think immigrants, uh, [01:04:15] if you want to hire some great people, it would be starting right there as well.

Payman Langroudi: I think [01:04:20] the US is amazing in that sense that I’ve got cousins who moved to the US. I don’t know, not [01:04:25] four years ago now, but four years ago, 20 years ago. And I remember, [01:04:30] you know, they’ve been in the country for four years and they’re like USA, they’re proper, [01:04:35] fully integrated into the US. Yeah. And then [01:04:40] again over here, it’s actually almost the opposite. It’s [01:04:45] almost like I mean things have changed. Things have changed a lot here. But there was a time I remember [01:04:50] in university thinking, you know, the dean of this university could never be anything other than a [01:04:55] white man. Like, impossible. And then I went to San Francisco for my [01:05:00] elective. You know, where you can do, like, a six month period?

JW Oliver: Yeah. Abroad? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Six week period, [01:05:05] actually. And, um, the dean in San Francisco was a black gay man, and [01:05:10] and I remember he took me for sushi and we talked and all that, and he was [01:05:15] totally. He was totally out and open about it. Yeah. And this was, I don’t know, 193. [01:05:20] I just remember, like my jaw opening, thinking, there is no way that [01:05:25] someone in the in the in that role in the UK could be black and gay. Now things [01:05:30] have changed here with respect to that as well. Um, but [01:05:35] you know that that that question of, you know what what is. I [01:05:40] mean, legal and illegal immigration is you’re talking about is, [01:05:45] at the end of the day, the same person. It could be the same human coming in because [01:05:50] there is no legal route. Yeah. That’s right.

JW Oliver: And if there’s no [01:05:55] legal route, then there’s a problem. Yeah, yeah. No, you’re exactly right. Well, and and I think you’re right. And [01:06:00] I think when I look at what people in, in the US think as well, Americans, uh, always [01:06:05] like to see us as we think. Um, I think that’s what we’re asking [01:06:10] is if you’re going to come here, assimilate into [01:06:15] the culture and become a About USA. Usa. What I think people have a problem with [01:06:20] is you have people coming into the US or the UK and other countries [01:06:25] and they’re saying accept me as a citizen, but you need to respect my flag from wherever [01:06:30] and I and it’s like, well, wait a minute, I don’t know if you can have both. You can be a [01:06:35] you can have proud heritage of your country you came from. Like you can be a proud Iranian, [01:06:40] right? But the reality is you are in the UK and [01:06:45] I think people coming to the US should come to the US. They probably need to speak English [01:06:50] and they they probably need to assimilate. Right. And I think that’s where it’s those those lines have [01:06:55] gotten a little blurred. Um, and I and look, I don’t take a stance on either side, I. [01:07:00]

Payman Langroudi: I think, I think it’s important, it’s really important to understand the other side of it. Yeah. Because we [01:07:05] had.

JW Oliver: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: We had some riots here. Um, uh, three, three, [01:07:10] three children got stabbed by, by, uh, the African guy and, [01:07:15] uh, they, they there was some sort of idea that had been covered up by the [01:07:20] press. They weren’t making enough of a sound about this guy being an illegal immigrant. It turned out he was he [01:07:25] was actually born here. But then there were riots, the riots in the streets. And then, you know, they were they were [01:07:30] going and trying to burn down hotels where immigrants were staying and all this. It was a [01:07:35] terrible thing. But I thought actually, at the time to understand why it [01:07:40] spilled over into a riot, you know, why is it that someone, um, feels [01:07:45] like they’re not getting from their own country the benefits [01:07:50] that that some immigrants are getting, for instance. And what’s actually going through? What [01:07:55] is correct, what’s actually going through their minds to understand the other side of the debate? I mean, even [01:08:00] in a war situation, Russia, Ukraine, whatever, you pick one of those sides. Super important to understand [01:08:05] the other side’s.

JW Oliver: Yeah, absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: Point of view, you know.

JW Oliver: Yeah. [01:08:10] I think you got to be careful in today’s world with just make an assumption. [01:08:15] Like like if you just said, oh yeah, all immigration is bad. Well, wait a minute. There’s there’s all kinds [01:08:20] of sides and pieces and there’s, there’s nuances as well. And uh, but [01:08:25] yet the UK and the US, either one can’t be the saviour to the world, right? I mean, we can’t [01:08:30] accept everybody that wasn’t that wouldn’t work either. Uh, we would we would have a broken system. So. Yeah, [01:08:35] that’s it’s a tough issue. I mean, it’s I think it’s one of the toughest ones we face today [01:08:40] is, is the, the whole immigration policy, right. It seems to be changing [01:08:45] on a weekly basis.

Payman Langroudi: I didn’t think our conversation would get to this point, but but [01:08:50] it’s been super, super fun talking to you. Um, we usually [01:08:55] end this on the same question, and it’s a fantasy [01:09:00] dinner party. Three guests, dead or alive. Who are [01:09:05] you having?

JW Oliver: Oh.

JW Oliver: Dead or alive? Uh. [01:09:10] Well, I would [01:09:15] say the first one would be Ronald Reagan. I was a big Ronald Reagan fan. I think he was [01:09:20] one of the great unifiers of the entire world. So I would say Ronald Reagan. Mhm. [01:09:25] Someone who’s become one of my favourites is Winston Churchill. So I would say [01:09:30] I would, I would love to have, um, a Winston Churchill [01:09:35] in the room with Ronald Reagan. And then um, [01:09:40] I would have to say and again, don’t please don’t read political views into [01:09:45] it. I’d like to have Donald Trump there as well.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting guy.

JW Oliver: Yeah. [01:09:50] I thought you were going to say I thought.

Payman Langroudi: You were going to say Margaret Thatcher. That she would have fitted very [01:09:55] well into that group.

JW Oliver: Well, I was going to actually I was, I was.

JW Oliver: Going to say Queen Elizabeth. I thought, well, [01:10:00] Queen Elizabeth, that was my last one. I was debating that, but I thought I kind of kind of leaders of the free world, [01:10:05] you know, as, as we kind of, uh, kind of by the way, I went to the, the I’ve [01:10:10] been to London dozens of times, but I just recently went to the, uh, the war room and, [01:10:15] uh, was was able to see that. And the funny thing, as I was, as I was, my [01:10:20] wife and I were standing there, we were at the front. There was not not it was a low time of day. Gentleman comes [01:10:25] walking out and I told the security guy, I said, hey, there’s a Winston Churchill. And he goes, oh, [01:10:30] uh, that’s one of his grandkids. And I went, oh, really? [01:10:35] He’s like, yeah. And he was kind of he looked just like him. You know, I thought I should have got a picture.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:10:40] that’s his grandkid was actually an MP. Maybe it was him. I forget [01:10:45] his, his name.

JW Oliver: Um, um, probably would have. Yeah, he was probably. He looked like he might have been in his 70s [01:10:50] now, you know, a little, little older guy. But yeah, he goes, yeah, he comes here. He comes here fairly [01:10:55] often. So yeah, it was kind of fun.

Payman Langroudi: What comes to mind when I ask what was the darkest day in this [01:11:00] journey for you?

JW Oliver: The darkest [01:11:05] day. Oh, that’s a good question.

JW Oliver: Um, [01:11:10] I don’t know what it [01:11:15] is. In the summer of 2000. [01:11:20] I remember I had [01:11:25] to, and I keep in mind I’ve only been married at that time, six [01:11:30] years, and my kids were [01:11:35] about four and two. We [01:11:40] were in a hotel room in Orlando. We were. We were on Disney. I literally had to I literally [01:11:45] had one of those big five gallon water jugs. Uh, we I used to put my change in [01:11:50] it. I remember I had to I had to take that change to the bank because [01:11:55] I promised we were going to take our kids to Disney, and I had to cash in that change. And there was about $1,400 [01:12:00] in there or something, and I was able to use that to go. But I remember that was [01:12:05] the moment I had to. I had to tell my wife that we were officially bankrupt [01:12:10] and and and I was I was [01:12:15] expecting this mad reply like, [01:12:20] you’re an idiot. You know, I’m done with you. I can’t believe you’ve done this to our family. [01:12:25] And I’ll just remember, she just. We were laying in bed. I remember she she reached over, [01:12:30] gave me a hug, I was crying and she says, don’t worry about it, [01:12:35] I trust you. We’ll get through this just fine.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

JW Oliver: And you [01:12:40] know, I remember the agony of trying to tell her that, and I thought, she [01:12:45] is going to leave me. I really thought she’s just going to leave me. And, uh, and that [01:12:50] that I remember that that was probably one of the darkest moments I ever had.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I, I give advice [01:12:55] to people. People are thinking about getting married or whatever. And I always advice I [01:13:00] give is marry the person you want to push your wheelchair because it doesn’t. It’s [01:13:05] not your actual wheelchair life is full of wheelchairs. Um, and we can all have [01:13:10] fun on Ferraris and private jets. And everyone’s a lovely person in those situations. But [01:13:15] it’s the person who, in that moment does that that’s the right person to marry. So [01:13:20] you chose well.

JW Oliver: Well thank you, I did. I got, uh, that’s the Lord blessed me with that [01:13:25] for sure. And it’s made, uh, it’s made going through those difficult times real easy. She’s [01:13:30] always been my greatest cheerleader, too. So that that’s that’s been helpful.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing, man. It’s [01:13:35] been a massive pleasure to talk to you. And and and, you know, before I met you, [01:13:40] I had you built up this, like, super executive guy. And actually, you’re just a just [01:13:45] a normal guy. Just a normal person. You mean?

JW Oliver: Man, I did wear my fancy t shirt today. [01:13:50]

Payman Langroudi: I’m sorry. Exactly.

JW Oliver: And my and my, I did put on a clean hat for you, so. Yeah. No, [01:13:55] you know what I want. I’ll leave you with this. One of the things [01:14:00] that I, that I take a lot of pride in is, is I treat the people. [01:14:05]

JW Oliver: We we.

JW Oliver: Uh, we call them our excellence team. The team that that, uh, you know, [01:14:10] sweeps the floor and cleans the bathrooms and all of our facilities. I [01:14:15] want to treat that person the exact same way as I treat [01:14:20] our C-suite. They’re all just part of our journey. We just [01:14:25] have different roles and functions. Uh, and so I think it’s important to to do that. And [01:14:30] to me, that’s a real that’s a real key, is just making sure that I don’t see myself [01:14:35] as I don’t let anybody call me mister. Uh, like, I’m not Mr. [01:14:40] Oliver. That was my father. I’m just J.W.. And so I think helps, hopefully keep me a little more humble and [01:14:45] grounded as we move forward as well.

Payman Langroudi: It’s like that famous thing in the Apollo program, isn’t it, that the janitor [01:14:50] who’s like, I’m helping put someone on the moon, but but I think even even beyond your [01:14:55] people, right? You show it with your philanthropy. The next human needs [01:15:00] to be treated with respect. Just the next human, whoever that is. It’s been a wonderful [01:15:05] conversation. Thank you so much for doing this.

JW Oliver: Hey, thanks for having me. It’s been a joy. [01:15:10] You’re easy to talk to you. You’re super fun. So, uh, thanks for having me on to [01:15:15] Payman appreciate it.

Payman Langroudi: Appreciate it. Man. Thank you.

[VOICE]: This [01:15:20] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one [01:15:25] on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:15:30] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:15:35] for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. [01:15:40] And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve [01:15:45] had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. [01:15:50]

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