Payman Langroudi: This podcast is brought to you by enlighten. Enlighten is an advanced teeth whitening system. Join [00:00:05] us for online training where I’ll take you through everything you need to know about how [00:00:10] to assess a case quickly, how to use the system, how to talk to patients. Because when [00:00:15] you know you can deliver brilliant results, it’s so much easier to talk about it. To book your course, which takes [00:00:20] only an hour. It’s completely free. Visit enlighten Online training.com. [00:00:25] Now let’s get to the pod.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The podcast [00:00:35] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:40] hosts, Payman Langroudi [00:00:45] and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Ali [00:00:50] Hashemi Zadeh onto the podcast. Ali, he’s a friend of mine who I’ve met across [00:00:55] different sort of young dentist stuff, even might have even been when you were a student [00:01:00] stuff. Yeah, because you’re only 27 now. Yeah. But I always see sometimes [00:01:05] when you go, you go to a wedding or something, and I don’t know, in a wedding you’ve got on one [00:01:10] side, you’ve got your, your side of the family and, you know, the other person’s. And I always think [00:01:15] about that when I look on the other side and I look at humans on the other side, look at faces. And sometimes you can [00:01:20] just make out who’s amazing and who’s who’s who’s bitter by looking [00:01:25] at someone. And with you. I just thought from the moment I saw you, the first time I saw you, I thought, this kid’s amazing. And [00:01:30] then you turned out to be amazing. You’ve got a lovely smile on your face and always insightful. [00:01:35] So lovely to have you on the pod. And well done for coming all the way from Newcastle today.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Thanks very [00:01:40] much for having me. I’ve, I’ve sort of listened to this podcast since, since I was a student. So, so it’s [00:01:45] really exciting to be here. Yeah for sure. I mean, I think the first time we met was my first ever be [00:01:50] a CD Young Dentist day. I remember really like very vividly.

Payman Langroudi: Where was there.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Somewhere [00:01:55] in London. Yeah. I can’t remember exactly, exactly where it was, especially like, go downstairs and it was a [00:02:00] big hole. Um, yeah, I think that was the first time we met. And then there was the enlightened stuff afterwards [00:02:05] as well. And then off the back of that, it’s been, I feel like numerous times a year we crossed [00:02:10] paths all the time. Yeah. It’s usually at a party of sorts. But, but [00:02:15] but yeah, we usually cross paths.

Payman Langroudi: So you, you, you know, um, but by the [00:02:20] way, we’re going to be crossing paths again at the Ministry of Sound. Yeah. Of course.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I’m looking forward to it [00:02:25] for sure.

Payman Langroudi: But you’re, you’re a young dentist who, um, for me based [00:02:30] on you’re only 27 doing a lot, doing a lot. You, [00:02:35] you’re working up in private practice in Newcastle and Sunderland. [00:02:40] Yeah. And, uh, kind of focussed in on endo um [00:02:45] as a sort of dentist with a special interest. Yeah. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um so [00:02:50] yeah, I mean, I think it’s, I sort of fell into it. Uh, I’ve, I’ve always liked [00:02:55] tender. Since uni it’s always been quite interesting. I think the intricate problem solving [00:03:00] kind of tickles a part of my brain. But going [00:03:05] into that sort of pathway of doing general dentistry with loads of endo alongside it kind of fell [00:03:10] into my lap. It was just fortunate timing. Um, and then I ran with it, you know, it worked [00:03:15] and I enjoyed it. So I’ve just kind of kept going to be honest. So it [00:03:20] was like a fortunate accident, I guess, as a way to put it. So, um, yeah, I mean, [00:03:25] I can’t complain at all. Both my practices are great. Get on with everyone really well. And [00:03:30] the opportunity I’ve had to do everything, you know, all sorts of treatment is [00:03:35] for my age as well. It’s been it’s been so much fun. You know, I can’t fault it [00:03:40] at all.

Payman Langroudi: So, you know, I’m learning while you go at [00:03:45] your stage in your career, it’s inevitable, right? Because you start with a [00:03:50] low base. So you’re learning all the time. Yeah. Yeah. But Definitely is. One of [00:03:55] the keys to being a happy dentist is to keep on improving and [00:04:00] many don’t. Many get to a certain stage and [00:04:05] and sort of stay at that stage. And then many do. And from my perspective, [00:04:10] I see people come from whenever when I saw you must have been a final year or something.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. [00:04:15] Just graduated.

Payman Langroudi: I see people, you know, final year just graduated, just finished PhD, whatever it is. [00:04:20] And then, you know, some people know very little. And then in my arc of, [00:04:25] uh, work, you know, five years is nothing. It’s five years later, you [00:04:30] see them being super good at some stuff and, you know, and it’s a really lovely thing to see, number [00:04:35] one. But my, my general advice is keep that curiosity for [00:04:40] the job itself going continuously. And, and you must [00:04:45] see it in your bosses, right. You work at Ken Harris’s place.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah. I mean, like their, [00:04:50] their The undying attention to detail, right? Like the constant [00:04:55] improvement is, is like so inspiring. And something I noticed, um, [00:05:00] was that the last BACD conference last year, um, I was sat in the second row [00:05:05] and the row in front of me was all the fellows. So you got like Ken and all the other guys [00:05:10] who’ve been, you know, there towards the end of their career, they’ve, they’ve peaked, they’ve done everything. There’s [00:05:15] some of the best clinicians. And you look around and middle of the lecture, you look around and [00:05:20] the only people taking notes was that group of people. And everyone else is on [00:05:25] the phone, like scrolling or paying attention, not paying attention and just, just listening, like me included. [00:05:30] I was just listening, trying to take it all in. But all of those guys were just sat there scribbling notes after notes, after [00:05:35] notes. That’s amazing. It’s like this dedication to always learning and always just being better and better and better. [00:05:40] It’s yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I know, I know he was he, [00:05:45] there’s a, there was a practice. Mike Wyse’s practice. Okay. He he was the undisputed [00:05:50] best dentist Britain has ever produced, right? Everyone agreed at the time he was just another level. [00:05:55] Yeah, he’s written the book failures. Failures in the Restored dentition. Quintessence, a brilliant, [00:06:00] brilliant book. But he was just undisputed number one. Yeah. And he sold his practice [00:06:05] to an oyster. Yeah. So. And, you know, he’s a very accomplished dentist. You know, he [00:06:10] was clinical lead at one of the big corporates. And then he does a full mouth dentistry on [00:06:15] international clients all the time. He came to many smile makeover. And I’ve never [00:06:20] seen anyone take as much notice as this guy. And he’s like, no, I don’t know, 58 [00:06:25] or something. Yeah. Still like so many notes. I saw [00:06:30] him halfway through the day on the first day, and he had maybe 12 pages [00:06:35] of notes and he’s like.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You know, you’re like, you’re, you’re learning never ends, [00:06:40] right. And you know, especially no matter what the topic is like, he’s probably in sensational [00:06:45] doing composite bonding or, you know, composite veneers or whatever. But there’s still going to be loads of tips [00:06:50] and tricks that he’s going to learn along the way, whether that’s even someone who’s like just graduated or someone [00:06:55] who’s towards the end of their career, there’s also something you can learn, but I guess that’s a.

Payman Langroudi: So can I [00:07:00] run something by you? Right. Were you at all involved in the a, c, d as far as the [00:07:05] you know how it worked. The conference. You had something to do with it, didn’t you?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Not not a whole lot, to be honest. [00:07:10] Um on the day. Yes. A lot of helping out where I could, you know, put myself. [00:07:15] But amongst the organising of the actual event less so, um, hopefully in the next [00:07:20] few years I’ll be more involved in that stuff.

Payman Langroudi: But so the reason I ask is that, you know, when [00:07:25] I qualified and when you qualify like 20, 30 years apart from each other, everything’s [00:07:30] changed in dentistry so much, but events haven’t, events haven’t moved on. [00:07:35] Yeah, yeah. Events have been basically the same. The not much change. Yeah. Guy standing [00:07:40] at the top talking for an hour. Mhm. And then, you know, we go to events [00:07:45] and every time I go to an event, I do pick up 1 or 2 things. Yeah. And that question [00:07:50] of is it possible to distil those 1 or 2 things into much shorter presentations, [00:07:55] Ted style, if you like. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s interesting. Ted is [00:08:00] 17 minutes. Yeah. And 17 minutes is not long enough to go deep into [00:08:05] a subject. Yeah. Yeah. And yet we’ve all listened to loads of Ted talks and [00:08:10] big subjects have been discussed. I don’t know which ones you think of. I [00:08:15] think it’s the Simon Sinek, the concentric circles or whatever. I saw one on education. There’s [00:08:20] so many. And 17 minutes is a long time for the audience, but a tiny amount [00:08:25] of time for the lecturer. Yeah. And I was thinking this notion of like, this thing we’re doing at ministry, [00:08:30] like we got 30 speakers. Yeah. Okay. And let’s say each speaker’s got two nuggets [00:08:35] in their, in their head, their donation to the world of dentistry. I [00:08:40] think for enlightened, I have two nuggets in my head. Yeah. We don’t talk [00:08:45] about that. So but if you come out of that event, 30 speakers, let’s say you manage to catch 15 of [00:08:50] them and 15 of them give you the two nuggets, because the whole point of the event [00:08:55] was to distil the the signal from the noise. Yeah. Yeah. Then [00:09:00] you walk out of that event with 30 nuggets. Yeah. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting [00:09:05] idea.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Smart. Yeah. It’s a smart way of doing it as well because.

Payman Langroudi: It’s difficult as the lecturer. I don’t know [00:09:10] if you’ve ever given a lecture.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I have less so clinical based. But yeah, it’s tricky. It’s also tricky knowing what people [00:09:15] want to want to learn. Right. The, I guess the beauty in having long form content is [00:09:20] people can can decide what is their nugget. Because what I’ll find is a nugget [00:09:25] will be different to yours, right? Yeah. So if, if you’re you as a lecturer, go up with a 20 minute lecture and [00:09:30] you’re like, okay, I’m dead set on these are the two most important things part of the lecture that I think people will [00:09:35] want to learn. Yeah. You might find that 80% of the crowd actually want [00:09:40] certain other things. Yeah. There’s there’s pros and cons to both, right?

Payman Langroudi: No, I get that. But isn’t [00:09:45] it an interesting notion? Right. Even even at your stage in your career? Yeah. There are two things [00:09:50] that are Ali things. Yeah. By the way, you sometimes you have to look deep [00:09:55] to think about what are those two things? Yeah. But there are two things. Yeah. If I gave [00:10:00] you the challenge, I said, look for the next week. Just sit back and really think about your two contributions [00:10:05] to the profession so far. Yeah. It could even be one of them. Could be. Listen, [00:10:10] do more self-development podcasts. Yeah. Or the full distillation of all the self-development [00:10:15] podcasts that you’ve done is for me. I don’t know, planning ahead is a great idea. Goals are a great [00:10:20] idea. Whatever it is. Yeah. But you know, we all have two that we, we think are our, are [00:10:25] our we’ve got five or 6 or 1 or nothing, you know, that we think are our contribution to [00:10:30] the profession. It’s an interesting notion.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I mean, it’s going to be interesting to see what it what it comes [00:10:35] out like on the day, right? When you’ve got all these different speakers with different nuggets to come across. Yeah. [00:10:40] It’ll be interesting when you ask people afterwards.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Of the 30 speakers, how much [00:10:45] did you get? Probably loads, you know. But it would be interesting when you speak to the speakers, how they found [00:10:50] the process of distilling all the content into such short form.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:10:55] but how do you feel it’s a 27 year old with a TikTok, um, attention span, whatever. I know this is a cliche. [00:11:00] Yeah. How do you feel about what I’m saying about Dental events? Do they need a shake up or not? I [00:11:05] think, am I wrong about it? Like there’s that.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I think for sure. I mean, you [00:11:10] know, you speak to younger people in general. Our attention spans are pretty.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:11:15]

Ali Hashemizadeh: But what do you think. Terrible. But so I think I think it’s difficult. It’s [00:11:20] difficult until you experience it. But it would make sense because our [00:11:25] attention span is so small. You know, we’re so used to short form content. It’s rare that people [00:11:30] sit and watch a movie without going on their phones and whatnot. So like it it does [00:11:35] make sense that it would work and it would work pretty well. Um, the, I guess The hard [00:11:40] part is when you bring into into presentations, when it comes to like clinical aspects, you know, workflows through [00:11:45] cases, you might just be a case of one case, one case, you know, one big case, the one, and [00:11:50] then the one big case and then going, okay, this is the, this is the key part here, this, [00:11:55] this section. Now this is what I want you guys to take home. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, the other thing we’re doing is treatment planning [00:12:00] forums, right. As a young dentist, you must come across whether you’ve got Ken Harris to go to with your treatment [00:12:05] plans. Right. But, but what I’m saying is, you know, you’ve got a case, right? Which way should it go? Yeah. [00:12:10] And we know we all know three dentists for treatment plans, right. So we’re trying to do that. Like one guy, Chris Hall, will [00:12:15] come up and say this is the case. Then these three experts will say what they think it should happen. Then [00:12:20] the audience votes with, you know, mentimeter vote for which and then Chris Hall says what [00:12:25] he did. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Because, yeah, it shows you that there’s [00:12:30] no right way of doing it, you know? Yeah. But ultimately, I think for us as young dentists, the hardest part [00:12:35] is the right treatment plan. Yeah. Because, you know, the more you learn, the more you [00:12:40] realise you don’t know and the harder these cases get. Yeah. Um, and then you’ll go to different mentors [00:12:45] and be like, okay, well, how do I approach this case in a, B, C? They’ll give, like you said, like four different treatment plans. [00:12:50] But I guess the beauty in that will show that there isn’t a right way. It’s just personal [00:12:55] preference. You know, Chris, I was going to do it totally differently to someone else, but the outcome is going to be as, [00:13:00] as I can imagine, amazing. You know.

Payman Langroudi: So or not, right?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Because [00:13:05] or potentially not.

Payman Langroudi: But by the way, another thing I wanted to do, but I haven’t figured it out in [00:13:10] time, I think is failures. Yeah. I want the whole event called [00:13:15] failures. Yeah. People keep telling me, no, no, no, people won’t won’t do that. And I just can’t believe it. I [00:13:20] just think, why wouldn’t you? I love like talking about your failures like a the [00:13:25] best way to learn it says like, I learned this because of this failure. Yeah. Yeah. [00:13:30] And you must in your short career, you must remember a couple of things.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You.

Payman Langroudi: Learned [00:13:35] because something failed.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I mean, it’s the only way you really learn.

Payman Langroudi: You really is.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, [00:13:40] yeah. Because it’s the ones that it’s like anyone, you know, all the cases [00:13:45] that have been successful. Yeah. Don’t really stay in your mind that much. But the case is that week, [00:13:50] week to week are difficult or not going to plan or always in the back of your head, you’re [00:13:55] always thinking about them. Those are the ones that stand out, and those are the ones you’re going to learn from the most. So yeah, definitely. [00:14:00] I think an event on failures would only work, I think.

Payman Langroudi: You think. But no, the people tell me, speakers [00:14:05] tell me that other speakers won’t share their failures. I just think that’s not kind of the case.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It comes down [00:14:10] to who you pick. You know, some speakers. Yeah, some speakers are probably going to be a bit more, um. [00:14:15]

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know. It’s a, it’s a weird.

Payman Langroudi: Thing, man. Like why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you share? [00:14:20] We’ve all got them. Why wouldn’t you share them? But yeah, so have you been, you seem [00:14:25] to me right now to be super sort of focussed and super optimistic about work. [00:14:30] And you’re really enjoying your work. Have you always been that cat or was there like an [00:14:35] inflection point?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Are you more suited to work than study? For instance, [00:14:40] I was.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I think with work, I’ve [00:14:45] always had a pretty optimistic, I think I’m quite an optimistic person in general, but my [00:14:50] approach to work has always been trying to make it as enjoyable, as fun as possible. Because like, I guess my fear [00:14:55] would be to wake, you know, it’s like Sunday night and you’ve got the absolute fear of waking up like that [00:15:00] is something I want to avoid in totality. So if I can make work, fun, work, [00:15:05] make it enjoyable, then that’s like the ultimate goal. So the benefit now [00:15:10] is I can pick and choose what I do and what I don’t do. So I’ve got that that’s, you know, really [00:15:15] fortunate. So, you know, waking up on a Monday morning is easy. You know, I enjoy it. But now, [00:15:20] I wouldn’t say it’s always been like that. When I first, first qualified PhD, [00:15:25] it was great. I really, I had a really good time. But then when I went into my first job, [00:15:30] so I was a mixed practice associate not long in London. In London, not long [00:15:35] into the year, I think three months in maybe. I had a [00:15:40] complaint that totally like.

Payman Langroudi: Knocked.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You rocked my world.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:15:45] was no.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It was honestly, it wasn’t even it honestly was a [00:15:50] mixture of like poor communication, me trying to be as fast as I [00:15:55] could because that’s what I thought I had to do. Yeah, you get that, you know, you get that pushed on you a lot where [00:16:00] you need to work fast to earn a living. No one’s going to hire slow Dental, especially on [00:16:05] the NHS. And so I had this like playing in the back of my head, like, I need to get fast. I need to get faster. I’ve always [00:16:10] been a slow dancer’s, I’ve not been particularly quick and.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t even want to know. Exact [00:16:15] situation, but I want to know what about the complaint hurts the most? [00:16:20] So is it what what I think intent? [00:16:25]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I think.

Payman Langroudi: They question your intent.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It was the [00:16:30] the complaint came down to. They were just like they felt [00:16:35] wronged. I guess like the outcome of the treatment wasn’t what they wanted. And they wanted some, [00:16:40] I guess, like payment for what happened. But the worst, the worst part of [00:16:45] the complaint wasn’t that because that got handled really easily. It was super easy. Like I spoke to indemnity and they sorted. It was great. But [00:16:50] the harder part was they didn’t complain to the practice they complained to [00:16:55] like the NHS straight. Yeah. So that opened a whole can of worms [00:17:00] that made things way more complicated.

Payman Langroudi: And yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So much more dramatic. Um, [00:17:05] and because there was the element of me trying to rush through treatment, then like note taking wasn’t [00:17:10] as good as it could have been. And so slowly sort of holes were picked in the process. [00:17:15] And that’s where it became this whole like way bigger beast that was not [00:17:20] easy to manage. So yeah, that was definitely the roughest period was, [00:17:25] you know, it was a couple of months it took for all to just like calm down. And you have [00:17:30] that like meeting and you go through everything that’s happened. You discuss what you’ve done to improve. You [00:17:35] know, you’ve spent loads of time on CPD watching the videos and stuff, writing reflections. And ultimately [00:17:40] they’re like, yeah, there’s no ill intent. Nothing’s been done. Nothing wrong has actually happened. [00:17:45] It’s just poor management. It’s fine.

Payman Langroudi: What was the emotion going through you like fear. [00:17:50] Oh, shame.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Shame fear, definitely. Because, you [00:17:55] know, you’re always thinking of like, am I going to lose my job? I’m going to lose my licence. Am I going to do I need to [00:18:00] think of something else to do? What on earth am I going to do as a, as a one year, one year in and [00:18:05] I can’t be a dentist anymore. What on earth do I do? Yeah. So. And you, you sort of you [00:18:10] make it so much bigger in your head and it gets bigger and bigger and becomes this whole big thing. And, um, [00:18:15] yeah, shame. Like you’re just dreading the outcome. You’ve no idea what [00:18:20] to expect that that was really tough. And I guess it, it makes you question [00:18:25] how good you are. Yeah. And whether you should actually be practising, [00:18:30] you know, you you really quickly think because I’m actually not a. Am I a good [00:18:35] dentist? You know, I’m actually bad at this.

Payman Langroudi: But also also we tied up with our identity so much because [00:18:40] you spent so much of your life doing this and dreaming about it. And since you were 14, you. [00:18:45]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Know, at that time I was a dentist, you know, like it made up who I was. So to question that [00:18:50] and think, am I actually am I good at it? Or should I even be doing it was yeah, that [00:18:55] was it was really tough.

Payman Langroudi: And what helped?

Ali Hashemizadeh: So the typical stuff, you know, like [00:19:00] family, friends you could speak to. But it made me really change [00:19:05] my perspective the way I like look at things. And I, I really had to take [00:19:10] a step back and think, okay, well, there’s nothing I can do in this situation. I can’t change what’s [00:19:15] happening. All I can do is work through what I’ve been told to do my indemnity, do the bits, [00:19:20] and hopefully it will be fine, but there is no point in me worrying, [00:19:25] you know, because I can’t change. All I’m going to do is not sleep. So [00:19:30] I may as well just take a step back and accept whatever happens, happens. Hope for the best, do what [00:19:35] I can and then just leave it.

Payman Langroudi: So what would you say? Like, I mean, [00:19:40] I know other young dentists, this exact same thing has happened to them and they quit. Quit dentistry. Mhm. [00:19:45] What would you say is like your trait that like manages to take a negative, [00:19:50] like take a lemon and turn it into lemonade and that positive outlook? [00:19:55]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I think, I think it comes from like just years and years of spending time on like [00:20:00] self development, self help books, you know, podcasts, [00:20:05] books, all that kind of stuff is what I spent a lot of uni like totally engaged in. So [00:20:10] I think it was always in the back of my head that perspective change. It’s just I didn’t have anything to, [00:20:15] to switch it on to when this happened. Then I really saw a change in the way I saw everything. [00:20:20] So, you know, I assign less of my identity to dentistry now. You know, [00:20:25] I, I love it, but if something goes wrong on Tuesday [00:20:30] and I get home, it’s like it never happened. Like it stays at work because [00:20:35] it’s it’s work. It’s not me. I’m not that clinical decision or whatever happens, you know, but [00:20:40] that took a while. And I think that the experience I went through [00:20:45] so early on in my career was actually a really good thing. I’m quite [00:20:50] thankful it happened. I’m thankful it went well, but I’m thankful it happened because it changed the way [00:20:55] I see dentistry. It changed the way I, I do everything really, but it was [00:21:00] it was good because then it really was the first step in sort of igniting the [00:21:05] push to away from the health service and going in towards, towards private [00:21:10] dentistry, because then I realised that time constraints and all, [00:21:15] all of the stuff that comes with it just wasn’t going to work for me. So, so I’ve initiated that change. [00:21:20] So that was also a positive that came out of it, really.

Payman Langroudi: Of course.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You know.

Payman Langroudi: And to be [00:21:25] to be in private at your stage, it’s hard. It’s hard. Not not many [00:21:30] do it. Yeah, I did it, but not many. I took a pay cut and changed towns [00:21:35] and all of that. Um, but, but also, you know, like the learning [00:21:40] curve of private dentistry itself, right? It’s a whole other [00:21:45] way of working, you know, with positives and negatives.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. It’s huge. Like my [00:21:50] transition was less than a year after [00:21:55] PhD. And when I first moved to the practice, one of the practices I work in now, um, [00:22:00] I moved because I liked a lot. I really liked endo and they [00:22:05] were looking for someone who could do a lot of the root canal treatment at the practice. So I [00:22:10] arrived being the endo guy.

Payman Langroudi: This isn’t Ken Harris’s [00:22:15] practice.

Ali Hashemizadeh: This is my other practice, which is it’s it’s in Darlington in Middleton, Saint George. So it’s like a little town [00:22:20] outside of Darlington. So just south.

Payman Langroudi: Which was the name of the practice.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Middleton. Saint George Dental. Yeah. [00:22:25] Okay. Um, and, you know, I was I was lucky a friend of mine, Harry Craig, you know, [00:22:30] everyone seems to know him. Uh, he put in a good word with the boss, and he took a [00:22:35] punt on me, and it’s worked so far. It’s been great. And I loved being [00:22:40] given this sort of role of, okay, you’re you’re taking on the endodontic [00:22:45] burden of the practice. You’re the guy. So that learning curve was ginormous. [00:22:50] You know, it was it was huge because going from doing.

Payman Langroudi: Were you already [00:22:55] a little bit into endo or.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, already. Like it was a passion. I really enjoyed it. But I wasn’t doing [00:23:00] I was doing a lot of primary treatment, you know, on the NHS, occasional [00:23:05] private work, but I just understood it quite well, I think. And then [00:23:10] with a portfolio I showed him, my now principal was like, well, yeah, I think this [00:23:15] will work. And I was really lucky. You know, he’s given me such a such a big [00:23:20] area to, to grow into. You know, there wasn’t strict like everything [00:23:25] needs to be perfect. You need to bring all this material. There was nothing like that. It was like, what material [00:23:30] do you need? I’ll get it in for you. What what instruments do you need? I’ll get it in for you. Um, here [00:23:35] are patients for you to work on, you know, crack on. And, well, that that process has been [00:23:40] like my ability, my experience has skyrocketed just [00:23:45] because someone took, I guess took a punt on me. So it’s worked, you know, and I’ve been doing [00:23:50] treatments I would never have thought. I mean, we’ve done a few apicectomy together. And if you were [00:23:55] to have asked me during PhD if I would have done anything like that within two years [00:24:00] or something, there’d be no chance I would have thought that.

Payman Langroudi: But I think it’s amazing. I think it’s [00:24:05] amazing for one thing. And there’s a brilliant, brilliant thing. You don’t have to sell anything to anyone. [00:24:10] No. Um, it can be very calm work if you know what you’re doing. [00:24:15]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Payman Langroudi: Um, on the other hand, if you’re doing [00:24:20] things like apicectomy and you’re happy with flaps.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:24:25] kind of flaps are kind of the thing that keeps a lot of dentists away from implants. Yeah. Yeah. And so [00:24:30] at your stage, you might want to consider, I’d say those two things. If you are happy with things like [00:24:35] if you like blood.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I’m still I’m still learning that part. I’m still getting used to surgery. [00:24:40]

Payman Langroudi: You’re nowhere. You’re nowhere. Yeah. You’re very, very, very young. You’ve done a lot considering how [00:24:45] young you are. Um, I mean, it depends. I would say, like, if [00:24:50] it was myself. I don’t like blood. Yeah. Yeah. So I would jump deep into [00:24:55] endo. Deep, deep, deep, deep as deep as possible.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: For sure. Even even to the point of getting another qualification. [00:25:00] It’s there’s not enough endodontists in the country. Yeah. And they do well. [00:25:05] And it’s a lovely job. It’s a lovely, lovely job. It depends though doesn’t it. Depends. [00:25:10] How are you thinking about it?

Ali Hashemizadeh: This this is.

Payman Langroudi: Like if you did endo all day, every day, would you be happy. Dentist? [00:25:15]

Ali Hashemizadeh: I think so, I think. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it’s quite nice to have a mix throughout [00:25:20] the day. You know, back to back to back. And it can be draining. You know once [00:25:25] you get the rubber dam on everything’s quite calm. But there’s still.

Payman Langroudi: But then there’s, there’s, there’s. [00:25:30]

Ali Hashemizadeh: There’s so much problem solving going on constantly in your head. Um, and [00:25:35] as soon as something starts going a bit off course, it’s like, okay, how on earth, how on earth do I get this back? [00:25:40] Um, but yeah, there’s always like a tug of war in your head, especially as a young dentist when you’ve got a particular [00:25:45] interest is, do I go all in now and just hit [00:25:50] the ground running, or do I keep my options really broad and open and just see where I [00:25:55] end up? And it’s so it’s so hard. I don’t think I’ll ever come to a decision without [00:26:00] being like, forced into it because the idea of being a really good general dentist is [00:26:05] great. You know, if you were to buy a practice, you’re that reliable principal. You can do a bit of everything. Um, [00:26:10] but at the same time, if you know you’re good at something and you know you like it. Why not just go [00:26:15] head first and just do? In my case, do loads and loads of it and just just do [00:26:20] endo. I don’t know, it’s a really tough decision. I can’t make up my mind at [00:26:25] all.

Payman Langroudi: It doesn’t.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s so hard.

Payman Langroudi: I think in these situations often it makes sense just to make [00:26:30] up your mind.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Not even not even think about it. Just make up your mind and jump in and go. Um, [00:26:35] on the other hand, you know, you’re young enough to, you could do nothing for [00:26:40] five years.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Nothing. Sit on your hands. Yeah. And at the end of all of that, you’ll [00:26:45] be 32. Mhm.

Ali Hashemizadeh: And still time.

Payman Langroudi: You could do whatever you want. You [00:26:50] know what I mean? Yeah. The big the big disease of the 20s is impatience. Mhm. It [00:26:55] really is. I remember I was impatient, you know, it started enlightened because of it. [00:27:00] Yeah. Yeah. Um, but don’t worry about the wrong decision. Yeah. [00:27:05] You can just reverse the decision if you have to. It’s I remember when I was like giving up dentistry finally, [00:27:10] you know, I’d gone five days a week, four days a week, three days a week, two days. One [00:27:15] day, one day for about five years. And then I just didn’t [00:27:20] want it to stop, and I couldn’t. I couldn’t get myself to stop. I kind of needed permission [00:27:25] to stop.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Well, it’s because you worked so hard to get to [00:27:30] that point.

Payman Langroudi: But then Prav told me, you know, Prav Prav told me, listen, stop. If you want to go back, [00:27:35] go back. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You don’t think [00:27:40] the door closes? But it can just, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Because, you know, you take a two week holiday, you come back a bit rusty.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. [00:27:45]

Payman Langroudi: I took a five year holiday.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That definitely felt rusty that first.

Payman Langroudi: Id [00:27:50] block. That first ID block when I came back [00:27:55] was tough. Really nervous. Patient. Yeah. And because I was taking care of [00:28:00] my wife’s patients. Yeah. She’s really into nervous patients. Yeah. Right. And he goes, the only reason [00:28:05] I’m coming in is because you’re her her husband. And she would have told me. Told you all about [00:28:10] me. And I was like, actually, you know, so [00:28:15] so he could hardly walk in the room. And it was my first one for five years. Yeah. [00:28:20] It was a moment. Nerve wracking. I came home with back ache that day. The first time you [00:28:25] forget about those things. Yeah. So you qualified in Newcastle, but you grew up in [00:28:30] Aberdeen. Mhm. How did an Iranian kid end up in Aberdeen? Is your dad in oil? [00:28:35]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Dad’s in oil. Yeah, dad’s an oil. So dad, um, moved [00:28:40] here when he was quite young then, like, did his university degree. [00:28:45] Um, did his PhD.

Payman Langroudi: Chemical engineer.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Mechanical engineer.

Payman Langroudi: A mechanical.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Engineer. Yeah. And then [00:28:50] moved around a little bit and then ultimately found a job in Aberdeen and settled there. So then I was [00:28:55] born a year later and then they’ve stayed there since. It’s a great place. [00:29:00] It’s honestly amazing.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve been there.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I’ve been there. Yeah, it’s just a bit grey. That’s grey [00:29:05] and cold is the main complaint. But but yeah, no, I mean, I don’t think I’d move back [00:29:10] to be honest, but it’s, uh, it’s interesting. There’s a huge Iranian community there, massive [00:29:15] because of oil and gas. So, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Is that the.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Reason? Yeah, yeah. So like my parents have got, [00:29:20] I think my parents probably have a busier social life than I do. You know, they’re always out, always doing stuff [00:29:25] with.

Payman Langroudi: Their group of buddies.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, or when I was younger, you know, we’d go to [00:29:30] like dinner parties and stuff and you’re talking like 60, 70 people are all crammed into a house and [00:29:35] it’s just packed full of Iranians just having a great time. So it was a lovely environment to grow [00:29:40] up in because.

Payman Langroudi: People don’t realise. People don’t generally realise that Aberdeen is the oil and gas capital [00:29:45] of the UK, but it is 100%.

Ali Hashemizadeh: For me it was all I was raised around. Like [00:29:50] all, most of my friends are in oil and gas. I wanted to be an engineer to begin with, you know, I didn’t want to be a dentist. [00:29:55] I didn’t want to do healthcare. But, um, I guess here we are. Here we are not [00:30:00] an engineer.

Payman Langroudi: I kind of do hear your Scottish twinge there. Now, at the beginning I said, I [00:30:05] can’t hear it, but now I can kind of hear.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Some people pick it up really quickly. Some patients pick it up like straight away and [00:30:10] some and some don’t. Some think I’m like, from here from London. Um, so it’s just [00:30:15] yeah, it’s just depends.

Payman Langroudi: I went to Aberdeen about ten years ago and I saw the, the [00:30:20] one thing that had changed at that point in the UK was you could get great coffee, great Thai [00:30:25] food, great stuff everywhere. Before that, like maybe 20 years ago, if you [00:30:30] went to Aberdeen to try and find a great coffee, there wasn’t even in London. There wasn’t much. There was no [00:30:35] yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But that’s something that’s moved on in the UK now. You can get [00:30:40] great everything everywhere now, which is really.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Everything at your fingertips.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. Which means you can live anywhere. [00:30:45] Really?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So then why Newcastle?

Ali Hashemizadeh: So [00:30:50] I guess the journey to Newcastle is quite.

Payman Langroudi: Well. What kind of kid were you? What kind of kid were you?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um [00:30:55] to begin with. Quite, you know, like your general boy, you know, just [00:31:00] like messing around and things. But not long into school, I kind of realise [00:31:05] that, you know, hard work pays off. And I think I saw that a lot in my parents and my sister [00:31:10] primarily. She was studying pharmacy at the time, and I would see [00:31:15] her like revise all day. She’d sit at the desk for hours and hours and hours, [00:31:20] and then I’d go sit there for like an hour and think, that’s probably enough. And I’d look at [00:31:25] her and think, okay, maybe I should do some more. And quite young, that whole idea of hard [00:31:30] work, you know, it’s like typical immigrant story, right? You know, hard work pays off eventually. Um, [00:31:35] so yeah, really quickly then develop that, that sort of mindset of just like, okay, I need to work hard. [00:31:40] I need to work hard. And definitely came from my parents a lot. You know, a lot of pressure [00:31:45] is not quite the right word, but a lot of encouragement to work hard and achieve something [00:31:50] that you can proud of at the end. Um, so that’s where I wanted to be an engineer to begin with. [00:31:55] And my parents were like, well, you’re, you know, you’re terrible at maths, so maybe, maybe don’t [00:32:00] do this. Do something else. And it came.

Payman Langroudi: Surprising how much math there is in engineering math? I didn’t realise just [00:32:05] too much. My son’s an engineering right now. My God, there’s loads of homework as well. Man, it’s a difficult [00:32:10] degree.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I’m so happy I didn’t do it. I’m so happy I listened to their advice.

Payman Langroudi: But my dentistry. [00:32:15]

Ali Hashemizadeh: It was it was a toss up between medicine, dentistry and pharmacy. Um, medicine [00:32:20] and did some work experience at a hospital and I hated it. I really didn’t like it. So left the [00:32:25] other two. Um, I was working in a pharmacy since I was about 15 or 16 because my sister did. So [00:32:30] I just kind of followed in her footsteps and did some work experience in a dental practice. [00:32:35] I was like, yeah, I was pretty sold. It was quite fun. And then applied. [00:32:40] Didn’t get in the first time. So I applied to a Scottish unis didn’t get in. And I [00:32:45] think at that point I was like, okay, well, the universe has decided for me, I’m not going to be a dentist. I got [00:32:50] into pharmacy. I’ll just be a pharmacist. This is great. Like, I’m very happy with this and started studying, really [00:32:55] enjoyed it, made really good friends. And my mum was like, let’s reapply. Just [00:33:00] apply one more time and see. And I was really against it. I was dead set on I [00:33:05] think it was the idea of being, uh, the idea of failing again, I was yeah, the [00:33:10] idea of rejection.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I really didn’t want to experience it again. So I was like, okay, no, um, I’m not going to apply again. [00:33:15] And she drove with my dad from Aberdeen to Glasgow, picked me up and drove me to Inverness [00:33:20] in the same day to sit my UK cat again whilst I was at university. [00:33:25] But the only place I could apply without leaving pharmacy was Newcastle. [00:33:30] So I applied to Newcastle um and didn’t get in again. So [00:33:35] after that I was, I was like I’m done. No more of this. Like that is the end. I’m not going to be a dentist. [00:33:40] And then I got a phone call in summer. Uh, I was just at home for a summer break and pick [00:33:45] it up. It was Newcastle Dental School. Like, we’ve got space for you through clearing. Do you want [00:33:50] to take it? And I was like, wow, like earth shattering. You know, it was like the best feeling ever. So [00:33:55] I was like, yeah, absolutely. Like I ran through to my mom’s room. I was like, mum.

Payman Langroudi: Those Iranian mums, [00:34:00] man. They’re tough.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Like I went through and I was like, mum, I got.

Payman Langroudi: She was right there.

Ali Hashemizadeh: She was always [00:34:05] right. And she like, burst into tears. Yeah, they’re always right. I’ll never tell her. I’ll never [00:34:10] tell her she’s always right. But they seem to be right all the time. So yeah, it was [00:34:15] a it was a long process getting into dentistry. Um, but it’s difficult. Like when you start, when [00:34:20] you start it with that, like fear of rejection because you’ve been rejected a few times, [00:34:25] then you go into university.

Payman Langroudi: It’s such a, so hard to get in. So getting my daughters [00:34:30] going for it now, which is 16. But you know, the idea that what if she doesn’t get in, what happens [00:34:35] next? You know that.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So you put all your eggs in one basket as well, you know, and then you don’t really know where you [00:34:40] go from there. Yeah. So.

Payman Langroudi: So tell me about Newcastle. Did you know Newcastle? [00:34:45]

Ali Hashemizadeh: No, I did not want to go to Newcastle. Oh really? No no no. When I came from interview, I [00:34:50] was in like a rotten mood. I was like, this is the worst place ever. I’m not coming here. And then [00:34:55] when I got, when I got in, I was like, I can’t wait.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a cool town, man.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s honestly [00:35:00] the best city ever. It’s great. It’s got everything you need. It’s brilliant.

Payman Langroudi: Good people, good people. I like [00:35:05] the people.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Everyone’s just so lovely, you know? The patients are lovely. People are lovely.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s [00:35:10] a total. It’s a totally different working environment to what I experienced here. And just in general, [00:35:15] the people are just so different. It’s a great city.

Payman Langroudi: So which student were you.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Uh, to [00:35:20] begin with? Really? I worked really hard because [00:35:25] it was.

Payman Langroudi: What.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Happened? Yeah. Because I was like, I can’t fail. And now I’ve made it like, I just [00:35:30] need to get through. And then the first exam we saw, it was, um, I think it was like a, it was, it didn’t [00:35:35] really mean anything. It was like a, just a, you know, the first test, just to see how you get on. And I didn’t pass [00:35:40] and I was like, oh, like here, here we go. Like, this is, this is the beginning of the end. This [00:35:45] is really bad. Yeah. Um, but after a while, I learned, I really learned the way I [00:35:50] revise, like the way I learn. And once I picked that up, so once [00:35:55] I picked that up, then I didn’t really mind. Like then the whole the environment of [00:36:00] the environment of university changed and it became a lot more relaxed, less [00:36:05] worried about revising all the time and really embrace like the social aspect. So like [00:36:10] the first like six months was really intense.

Payman Langroudi: And that that self-awareness [00:36:15] piece. Yeah. It’s so interesting because it’s quite hard to teach [00:36:20] it. But I think you develop self-awareness as you go. [00:36:25] And like, for instance, I’m a bit of a like a procrastinator type. So knowing [00:36:30] that you are means you can have like a tactic. [00:36:35]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: For like for the first 38 [00:36:40] years of my life, I wasn’t aware of it properly. But now I’ve got a tactic, [00:36:45] you know, if like, if something’s happening in 60 days time, I pretend it’s actually 30 days time. Yeah. And it’s [00:36:50] like you.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Only learn that through experience, right? So So once I picked that up, then [00:36:55] I knew, okay, this is how I revise. This is the time frame. I need to revise it. And then I didn’t really [00:37:00] need.

Payman Langroudi: To worry as in general. I mean, were you a party animal guy at one point or did you not do that? Did you do sports? [00:37:05]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like did you pick it up quite quickly? Dentistry, the clinical side.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, [00:37:10] I don’t think I was like particularly like talented clinically. Um, I’d [00:37:15] say I was pretty like bang average when it came to clinical itself. Um, socially, I [00:37:20] think we spent a lot of time going like the dental hospital and the dental, the dental [00:37:25] school and Newcastle had a really good social aspect. You know, a dental SoC was incredible. [00:37:30] It’s like, it’s definitely the best dent SoC in the UK. Not a non-biased opinion, [00:37:35] but so, you know, you’d be going out all the time with people in every year. So you’d socialise [00:37:40] amongst years a lot. And because the cohort is quite small, it’s like 70 odd people per year. [00:37:45] You really became friends with, you know, if you’re in first year, you had friends in fifth year and you [00:37:50] get really close across across years, which is so good. But I think naturally when you’re in [00:37:55] Newcastle you end up going out a little bit more than other places because it’s just the type of city it [00:38:00] is.

Payman Langroudi: But do you think.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. It’s like it’s a.

Payman Langroudi: Fun.

Ali Hashemizadeh: City. It’s well known for it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:38:05] But so is Manchester. So it’s Liverpool. So there’s so many places. Yeah. [00:38:10] Um okay. So then your first [00:38:15] job you decided to come to London?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. It was like it’s always been a dream to work in London since [00:38:20] I.

Payman Langroudi: Was that the idea?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Bright lights, big city.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Since I was a kid, I was. I’ve always been obsessed [00:38:25] with working and living in London. My sister moved out not long before I did. So [00:38:30] she loved it. I was like, well, I’m gonna love it too. Did my foundation year here, [00:38:35] which was good. You know, I got a lot of experience. Funnily enough, my s at the time was big [00:38:40] into Indo, so hence I really enjoy it now too.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so is S the [00:38:45] direct boss or is that the boss of the boss?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Your direct.

Payman Langroudi: Boss?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Boss? Yeah. Like your trainer.

Payman Langroudi: Your trainer?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah. [00:38:50] So my trainer was really big into Endo. So then I ended up doing what’s.

Payman Langroudi: The new name for the the TPD. [00:38:55] Tpd.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Tpd. Tpd yeah. What was it before?

Payman Langroudi: I [00:39:00] can’t even remember. I can’t even remember. Tpd so S is the guy [00:39:05] in the practice.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: He’s the guy in the practice. Yeah. Sorry I keep forgetting.

Ali Hashemizadeh: And then like the [00:39:10] other one like.

Payman Langroudi: The higher up.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah yeah. Okay. Cool. Um and, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Did you find [00:39:15] it difficult? You said you did. You didn’t like the job? The mixed job. Yeah, yeah. I found it really hard going from [00:39:20] 50 to 50 plus one.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s like a whole different step because [00:39:25] the when you’re an PhD, you’ve got all the time in the world to do whatever you want. There’s no rule the rule. But [00:39:30] like, you know, you’re, you’re kind of like a baby. And then you go to mixed practice or your feet plus one and [00:39:35] you’re sort of on your own. Yeah, there’s a lot more. I actually really enjoyed the practice. The people in the [00:39:40] practice are great. My principal there is like one of the best principal I’ve ever had. He [00:39:45] was so supportive.

Payman Langroudi: Um, shut him out.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Uh, Rishi Nagaria. It’s such [00:39:50] a great guy. Um, but the, I [00:39:55] guess what I was doing clinically just wasn’t fulfilling. You know, I just didn’t enjoy that part of it that much. [00:40:00] So I really had to like figure out a plan to get from where I, from [00:40:05] where I was to where I wanted to be so.

Payman Langroudi: And so outside of the job, did you find [00:40:10] living in London not as fun as you expected it to be?

Ali Hashemizadeh: No, I think it was totally [00:40:15] different to what I expected. Um, I think also it didn’t help, you know, you’re [00:40:20] you you come there and your salary is not particularly big and it’s an expensive city to [00:40:25] live in. So in your head you sort of expected to be, you know, you come here on the weekend and you do everything. [00:40:30] You see everything you do as much as you can. But when you live here, it’s a totally different city. [00:40:35] Um, and I think I, what I didn’t like was being so far away from like the [00:40:40] outdoors, you know, like wildlife and stuff. So Newcastle is great. You’ve got country parks all over. [00:40:45] You’re close to Scotland. It’s like the perfect balance for me. Um, so London, [00:40:50] although I’m here like all the time, it just wasn’t the place for me.

Payman Langroudi: What do you do in the outdoors?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Cycle ending cycle [00:40:55] run cycling, run camp, hike. Like anything.

Payman Langroudi: Anything outside you’re doing [00:41:00] that common? Yeah, commonly.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Yeah. Like me and a group of our friends are doing a Ironman [00:41:05] 70.3 in a couple of months and, um. Oh, wow. But like that, [00:41:10] I don’t think I would have ever signed up for something like that if I lived here.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Because there, I can [00:41:15] just, I don’t know, it’s just access to the outdoors is so [00:41:20] easy, so convenient. It’s so nice.

Payman Langroudi: So I used to, I used to be in Cardiff for [00:41:25] uni and there was a, there’s a, there’s a thing about a town that [00:41:30] size, I think Cardiff and Newcastle probably Newcastle’s a little bit bigger, I don’t know. But. But a [00:41:35] town that kind of size is, it’s large enough right, that massive things can [00:41:40] happen. You know massive band will come. Yeah. Whatever. Coldplay playing [00:41:45] Cardiff, but it’s also small enough that you bump into people [00:41:50] all the time in the street, and even people you don’t like. You don’t know them, [00:41:55] but you keep seeing them again and again. Yeah, people like that. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I think it’s so easy. I think London [00:42:00] can be quite an isolating city. Yeah. You know, it can be quite lonely and it’s quite hard to, like, break into a group [00:42:05] of friends here if you don’t know anyone. Yeah. Whereas places like Newcastle, Cardiff was about, I think it’d be really. It’s [00:42:10] really easy to go if you don’t know anyone there to break in and find find like [00:42:15] your place, find your people there. It’s so much easier.

Payman Langroudi: But bearing in mind you did have five years to get to know everyone. [00:42:20]

Ali Hashemizadeh: You know, it made it so much. They made that transition way easier. You know, the move back was convenient because [00:42:25] also loads of friends stayed after uni, so I didn’t need to do that. Um, so I didn’t have that [00:42:30] whole that period of like, I don’t know anyone here, but I’m pretty sure I’m pretty certain [00:42:35] that the transition there would be easier than it would be in London.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting. I could have lived [00:42:40] in Cardiff, I could have, yeah. And when you think about the kind of towns that you could live [00:42:45] in. Yeah. Not many like I mean, I guess because we know these towns. Yeah. But like, when [00:42:50] you think about it, what comes to mind? Like if, let’s say if I said move. Mhm. Where would you move [00:42:55] to?

Ali Hashemizadeh: I think somewhere like Edinburgh, I wouldn’t mind [00:43:00] living in Edinburgh. Manchester, I don’t know too well, but strikes me as somewhere I would like to live. [00:43:05] So, you know, Manchester is so close to the lakes. So you’ve got the convenience of proximity [00:43:10] to lakes. Close enough closer, I guess, than I am now. Edinburgh [00:43:15] is the same as close to the Highlands, so places like that I would, I would like um living [00:43:20] in Glasgow. Glasgow is an amazing city, I loved it. It’s, it’s like a.

Payman Langroudi: People are amazing Glasgow.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. [00:43:25] You know Glasgow is really similar to Newcastle in my head.

Payman Langroudi: Did you study in Glasgow for pharmacy?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I did [00:43:30] a year there. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m still friends with loads of internationally.

Payman Langroudi: Like have you been to Canada? [00:43:35]

Ali Hashemizadeh: I’ve not been to Canada. No, no no, I’ve always wanted to though. I’ve got a cousin who lives out there and it [00:43:40] looks.

Payman Langroudi: I live in.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Canada. Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: I live in Canada. You would. It’s like. It’s like America with, like, cooler [00:43:45] people. Kind of cuter people. Yeah. Um, South Africa, [00:43:50] everyone bangs on about crime and all that, but I didn’t notice anything, but. But I love that country, man. [00:43:55]

Ali Hashemizadeh: I’m going to this year. So I’ve never been. Yeah. I’ve never been.

Payman Langroudi: Before.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I’m [00:44:00] looking forward to. I’ve not been to Australia. That’s that’s like Australia is like the the place that all UK [00:44:05] dentists move to. If they’re moving, they’re moving there.

[BOTH]: It’s just such lovely. It’s so far away.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve not [00:44:10] been I’ve not been. So maybe if you go. But you know, like these sort of English speaking countries. [00:44:15]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I guess if you spoke another language, maybe if [00:44:20] you spoke French, maybe you. Guadeloupe.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Where [00:44:25] else would you would you would you move to like the Middle East?

Payman Langroudi: My, my [00:44:30] business partner just moved to Dubai. Um, and he was [00:44:35] enjoying it before the war. Mhm. He was enjoying it. Um, I live [00:44:40] in Dubai. If just war to one side. I live in Dubai. If it was on a limited [00:44:45] time basis. I kind of don’t want to die in Dubai. Yeah. Okay. [00:44:50]

Ali Hashemizadeh: I see that. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But I would. I mean, Iranians love to hate on Dubai [00:44:55] somehow, man. And I don’t share that. I mean, I think I think it’s a great place.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. We’ve got loads of family [00:45:00] in Dubai and they love it. I, I think a lot of people in the UK also hate Dubai [00:45:05] as, as, as a place. But I would live there short term as well. Like I wouldn’t live there long term, [00:45:10] but I could definitely see like, yeah, I could see myself there at some point. But [00:45:15] if I wasn’t doing dentistry, I think working as a dentist, a whole different kettle of fish.

Payman Langroudi: How [00:45:20] would you classify yourself? Like, I don’t mean I don’t mean sort of externally. You [00:45:25] could call yourself a British Iranian or whatever, but is there like, do you think of yourself [00:45:30] as Scottish?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I do like my, I guess [00:45:35] my, my identity is very Scottish, Iranian.

Payman Langroudi: Scottish, Iranian Scottish Gas thing. Yeah, because. [00:45:40]

Ali Hashemizadeh: That’s all I’ve been raised around. You know, my friends from home have always been [00:45:45] Scottish, you know, especially in Aberdeen. There’s not that diverse of a place. [00:45:50] So I’ve only been exposed to Scottish and Iranian at home. Um [00:45:55] yeah definitely Scottish, Iranian you know know know.

Payman Langroudi: A bit of a Geordie. [00:46:00]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Know Geordie.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Scottish with a sprinkle of Geordie. Now it’s probably the best way to put it. [00:46:05]

Payman Langroudi: So on this pod we like to talk about mistakes. Is [00:46:10] yours going to be that one or do you have another mistake. We can talk about clinical error. Have you got an Indo mistake? [00:46:15] That’d be nice.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, yeah. I mean, there’s been plenty of times where [00:46:20] I’ve struggled and I’ve had to refer on or we’ve just accepted that it’s, [00:46:25] you know, stopped there and accepted where we are.

Payman Langroudi: But have you got [00:46:30] better at being able to predict.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, way better.

Payman Langroudi: Give me some like top tips. How?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Well [00:46:35] the biggest change I found has been, um, cbct has [00:46:40] been the, the biggest change because there’s so many times you look at a case and you have, you don’t know if there’s [00:46:45] going to be an MM2 there potentially. You don’t know if it’s curved. You don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: Can you always see it on CBC?

Ali Hashemizadeh: You can’t [00:46:50] always see it, but there’s enough signs. There’s enough signs to indicate there is an MM2 or there probably will [00:46:55] be one. But yeah, a lot of times you can see if it’s there or not.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s what, what else apart [00:47:00] from the MM2, what else does it show you that the overall anatomy. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So the anatomy curvatures does [00:47:05] it have something like a C shape molar like a lower seven often has like a C shape. [00:47:10] So it’s like a broad um pulp chamber. So something like that. You need to approach [00:47:15] it with a different set. Yeah. You know, you need to look at a different way of operating it. Um, [00:47:20] but if you didn’t know that until you’ve opened it up, then you’re like, okay, now I need to go and get that material. What if [00:47:25] I don’t have that material? Or, um, so that’s been the biggest game changer because you go into [00:47:30] the case with a lot of predictability and you know what to expect, You know, if it’s got [00:47:35] like a really like a really strong curve, let’s say on the canal, you [00:47:40] can, you know, where that starts, you can measure it. So you can approach the [00:47:45] case appropriately. Whereas before you kind of just aimlessly put your files in and hope for the best. And that’s [00:47:50] when you get mistakes. That’s when you get ledges and perforations and stuff. But the other, the [00:47:55] other biggest tip I got was from a mentor and he told me to use like [00:48:00] safe ended files. So files that don’t cut on the tip.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So when [00:48:05] you’re scouting to get to the apex, it’s like totally game changing because it’s only going to follow [00:48:10] the anatomy of the canal. Sure, you need to do a bit of cutting and shaping to allow that to [00:48:15] happen, but whereas before you’re going straight in with a K file and you risk ledging [00:48:20] once you’ve ledged, it’s so hard to bypass it, you can avoid that whole [00:48:25] headache of just using the appropriate files. But I guess all these types, all these [00:48:30] things you only learn from mistakes, you know, I’ve alleged so many canals, [00:48:35] and that’s when I was like, there must be a better way. Other than maybe [00:48:40] I’m just bad at this, but there must be a way of not doing this. And that’s when I got to. Okay, these [00:48:45] are the files you need to try out, and it’s made my life so much easier.

Payman Langroudi: Did you render [00:48:50] as well?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Some. Not loads. I’ve just not come across that many. Um, [00:48:55] most of the cases I get sent have been primary, which makes my life easier, you know? [00:49:00]

Payman Langroudi: Um, maybe they’re not sending you render.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s just there aren’t any, like in the practice of our [00:49:05] practice, there’s not many renders that need treatment. Um, a lot [00:49:10] of times we find the ones that do come up. It’s a, it’s a conversation to have with a patient, [00:49:15] you know, do you want to give it another go? Potentially it’s failed because the ender was poor [00:49:20] or potentially it’s failed because there’s a crack or something else going on. Or do you want to go for extraction [00:49:25] and implant? The practice I work in, where I do most of the Ender work is and [00:49:30] they do loads of implant work as well. So the decision [00:49:35] to go to implant is quite easy. I guess because the implant surgeons we’ve [00:49:40] got are amazing at what they do. We’ve got an older population, [00:49:45] so they’re less inclined to worry about, you know, they’re in their 70s, so they’re less inclined to worry [00:49:50] about trying to save that retreat, retreat and end a retreat, a molar rather [00:49:55] just take it out and put an implant in because it’s, you know, it’s going to last long enough, I guess. So [00:50:00] not that many, but, um, I think that’s just circumstantial really.

Payman Langroudi: You’re [00:50:05] really brilliantly positioned, man. It’s because you’ve got endo, you’ve got implants, [00:50:10] you’ve got Ken Harris, uh, Richard Coates. Yeah. The full mouth rehab [00:50:15] kind of. Yeah. Maybe you should push all of them forward slightly at a time. And maybe you [00:50:20] become this, like, super dentist, you know, you come across them.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So this is this is what I was [00:50:25] saying earlier, you know, do you go all in on something you’re interested in or do you stay [00:50:30] a little bit more, you know, take a step back and try and cover every topic to a pretty high standard, [00:50:35] but maybe not to a specialist level. Um, and I think that’s more the [00:50:40] direction I think I want to go down.

Payman Langroudi: I knew I knew a guy who was double specialised. Okay. [00:50:45] You can, you can specialise in implants in, uh, Germany where he was. [00:50:50] So he double specialised implants and endo.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s an interesting [00:50:55] combination, isn’t it? Because you’re sort of fighting yourself on both sides. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re like almost. You’ve got both angles, [00:51:00] like saving that tooth or not. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: But I guess the benefit of that is you can then let the [00:51:05] patient make the make the decision. Then you can do both whichever one they go down.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:51:10] Although one, the one thing I would caution you against in that respect is, you know, [00:51:15] you know, that sort of. Here are three treatment plans. Mhm. Now you decide.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Yeah. [00:51:20]

Payman Langroudi: That’s right. But it’s incorrect. Yeah. Insomuch as that’s, [00:51:25] I’d say the difference between a good dentist and a great dentist. It’s a great dentist, says, [00:51:30] I think option two is the correct one for you. Yeah, yeah, that’s what you want from your dentist. Yeah. Of course [00:51:35] it’s his decision. Mhm. Yeah. But your recommendation, I just think, [00:51:40] is so key. Mhm. It’s so, so, so key and, and I, I don’t know why you [00:51:45] think as a, I used to even think that I used to think. Yeah. Patients choice with full [00:51:50] consent. Yeah. And it is theoretically.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. List of treatment plans [00:51:55] like ten different options. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Have you done much, uh, training on sort of that side of [00:52:00] dentistry, the treatment planning. No, the soft side, you know, communication, [00:52:05] ethical selling that those things.

Ali Hashemizadeh: No, none of them really resonated with me. You [00:52:10] know, I’ve considered them. You see them all the time. But I found for me the the way [00:52:15] I’m positioned in both my practices, I don’t really need to speak about money at all with patients because we’ve got [00:52:20] treatment coordinators. So that’s good. I don’t the conversation of like how much it’s going [00:52:25] to cost, how cost. How are you going to fund? It never comes up in surgery. It’s always then given to [00:52:30] treatment coordinator and they’ll go through all that and they’re way better at the conversation than I am.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:52:35] that’s interesting. So so that’s why you’re kind of saying it’s up to them. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So my, my decision [00:52:40] is solely clinical based. You know, I’ll give my opinion, but I’ll say, [00:52:45] you know, clinically this is what I can see. These are what we could do. This is probably my recommendation, [00:52:50] but go have a chat with the treatment coordinator. She’ll go through the fees, she’ll go through the timescales, she’ll [00:52:55] go through the appointment breakdown and just see what suits you best. You know, if if you can’t commit [00:53:00] to a full mouth rehab because you’re busy with work or you’re travelling or whatever, then it’s [00:53:05] not an option. There’s no point me spending an extra 40 minutes, half an hour going through all of that. [00:53:10] It’s just a waste of time. Same way should, you know, treatment can go through all of the different financing [00:53:15] options that I don’t need to worry about. And I think that it’s quite nice to separate the two, because then [00:53:20] the patient’s less inclined to think you’re trying to upsell Yeah. Work you’re trying [00:53:25] to you know, all dentists have that bad reputation, I guess, but it’s quite nice to [00:53:30] keep it solely clinical. You know, this is what I see. This is what we should do. Go have a word with someone else and [00:53:35] figure out what you’d like to do. And if you’ve got any questions, you can come back to me. But I’m not the one who’s going to be making.

Payman Langroudi: Both [00:53:40] your practices like that.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it’s a good fortunate [00:53:45] balance. You know, it’s quite nice that way. So I don’t I don’t really have that worry [00:53:50] I guess because it’s a difficult.

Payman Langroudi: No, it’s a brilliant it’s brilliant. If they can if people are trained [00:53:55] properly.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a brilliant.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Thing because the with like ethical selling [00:54:00] and the conversation stuff, I think as long as you are, as [00:54:05] long as you can communicate with your patients appropriately, you know, there’s no need to try [00:54:10] and upsell a lot. A lot of it comes down to when you’re speaking to them. Once they feel [00:54:15] they can trust you, then they take your word for a lot of the recommendations you have. Then it’s [00:54:20] easier to just say, you know, have you ever considered whitening your teeth? And then they’d be like, oh yeah, actually I have. But if [00:54:25] it’s really pushy, then it comes across really terribly as well.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Although [00:54:30] I think the point of it is, is not, not, not to come across really pushy. And [00:54:35] by the way, if you’re, if you’re treatment coordinators are converting a lot of those treatment [00:54:40] plans, they’re doing the ethical selling part.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Themselves outside of the the clinic. [00:54:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Although there are there are good tips in these cases. Yeah. You know, I, I remember [00:54:50] someone selling to me like the way that the ethical selling then the [00:54:55] dental trainers tell. And it’s a basic it’s basically he was trying to sell me a mortgage [00:55:00] or something and he said, look, what are the things that are important to you about the mortgage, A, B or C? [00:55:05] Yeah. I said oh C, and he said, okay, so question, [00:55:10] question, question, question based on the fact that you said C is [00:55:15] important to you. They’re based on the fact that you said A is important to you on this subject. I’ve [00:55:20] I’ve looked at these three solutions for you. And if [00:55:25] you do these three solutions and they repeat back to me the things that I said were important to me. So [00:55:30] it’s a simple trick of the mind. Yeah. This patient. What’s [00:55:35] important to you on my wedding photos? Yeah. At the beginning. Then at the end. Well, if we do this, this, this. [00:55:40] I think you’re going to be amazing on your wedding day. Yeah. Whatever it is. Whatever. I want to bite into [00:55:45] steak. Oh, well, you know, this is with this approach, then you’ll be able to buy steak again. [00:55:50] Yeah. And it’s just there’s some, some sort of like I’ve been heard. Yeah. Feeling.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Well [00:55:55] I think one of the I use that a lot when it comes to endo like root canal [00:56:00] consults a lot of the time because because the population is a little bit older. Yeah. I always, I [00:56:05] always ask that is saving the tooth your number one priority or is it just convenience [00:56:10] being out of pain? Is it you don’t want something to worry about long term?

Payman Langroudi: Everyone [00:56:15] says saving.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Because if they say saving, then.

Payman Langroudi: Everyone says.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Saving. I mean, a lot of times now they don’t a [00:56:20] lot of they used to, I guess. But if they say, you know, I just want something that’s predictable, I don’t need [00:56:25] to worry about it. It’s in it’s done. It’s done then. Okay, well, maybe this really broken down molar is [00:56:30] maybe one we don’t try and save because yeah, like it’s probably not the best option for you. But [00:56:35] if for you saving every single tooth is a priority, then cool. We’ll go down that path. But [00:56:40] it’s complicated and might not work and you need to be accepting of that. So I guess you, [00:56:45] you end up picking up these sort of tricks. So I suppose [00:56:50] when, when you end up spending so much time speaking to people all day.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about other inflection [00:56:55] points. Yeah. Because three minutes ago you were a dental student. Yeah. Now you’re [00:57:00] talking about, you know, cbct and you have other inflection points, [00:57:05] things, things that happened that made you realise X happened, made you realise Y, then [00:57:10] you looked into Z or like other inflection points that got you to this place. I [00:57:15] guess a lot of conversations with with mentors, right?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, that’s the biggest one, I think because [00:57:20] the, the, the beauty of dentistry is how many people [00:57:25] it’s not that big of a community, right? There’s not loads of us. So it’s quite easy to then [00:57:30] get to know so many people who are way more experienced than you and just see what they think. Um, [00:57:35] even people who are like a little bit more experienced is always quite nice because there are only like five years older [00:57:40] than you and they’ve only got five years more experience. They’ll, they will have faced the [00:57:45] problems I face now more recently, you know, if I ask someone who’s in their late 50s [00:57:50] 60s about stuff that I’m struggling with now, they probably yeah, [00:57:55] they’re too far the way the landscape then was so different for them.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, that’s [00:58:00] a very good point.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So I think having.

Payman Langroudi: Finding those guys was that because what you’re saying about Newcastle, uh, [00:58:05] playing sports or whatever or going out with people?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Like the dent SoC [00:58:10] is like Newcastle Dent SoC was how I made most of my friends in [00:58:15] dentistry. Now it’s coming a lot through courses and you know, like the B, A, C, [00:58:20] D, for example. That’s where I meet a lot of a lot of my newer, I guess, dental associates [00:58:25] and friends. But that’s the best way is just, I guess with like Instagram and social [00:58:30] media, it’s the easiest way. You know, you, you follow someone, you like their work, you message them [00:58:35] and then before you know it, you’re like really close friends and you’ve maybe not even met before. Um, [00:58:40] but those are the type of people I ask questions all the time. I’m in everyone’s DMs [00:58:45] all the time. Are you? Yeah, all the time. Depending on what the subject is, whatever the topic is, I’ll [00:58:50] ask a certain person a certain question because that’s their area. That’s who I can ask, you [00:58:55] know.

Payman Langroudi: How did you land these two brilliant jobs?

Ali Hashemizadeh: So when [00:59:00] I was in London in my mixed practice, um, there was a moment [00:59:05] I left work. I remember it vividly. Um, and I was on Instagram and [00:59:10] my friend just announced he got a job at this all singing, all dancing [00:59:15] practice just outside of London. I was like, how do I get that the same age as me? How do [00:59:20] I get that? That’s what I want. So I sent it to another friend and who’s a bit older [00:59:25] and he was like, well, clinically it’s not the problem. It’s no one knows you. [00:59:30] You know, that’s where your issue is. So just get yourself out there. So then [00:59:35] that’s what I did, you know, really pushed on Instagram, went to the b, a, c, d events, went to [00:59:40] as many events as I could find and slowly but surely with by [00:59:45] design, you know, it was very intentional. More and more people knew who I was. And [00:59:50] off the back of that just makes it so much easier to land a job that you probably are maybe not quite qualified [00:59:55] for at the time, but they can see that, okay, you’re engaged, you know, maybe [01:00:00] if you’ve got enough recommendations from people that know you, you’ll, it’ll be far easier to land [01:00:05] a job that that you really want.

Payman Langroudi: But did you approach them? Did you [01:00:10] CV drop or was there a job?

Ali Hashemizadeh: No. So the first job I got was my one in [01:00:15] Darlington in Middleton, Saint George. That one I was actually coming up, so I knew I wanted to leave [01:00:20] London. Yeah, I was I was willing to move anywhere in the UK at that point. I was like, just, [01:00:25] I want to leave the city. Um, and I applied to a few jobs in the northeast. [01:00:30] One of them fell through, but he recommended me this practice. But [01:00:35] at the same time, Harry Craig was also working there. So he was like, I’ll put in a good word. And then [01:00:40] just off the back of that, I met up with the principal, Chris, and we got on really well and then it [01:00:45] just worked. So it was, I guess, off the back of a job that didn’t work out. I [01:00:50] then got referred on to this one. And then the practice, Ken’s practice was [01:00:55] they he’s reducing his time because he’s retiring. So they’re looking for someone to step in and [01:01:00] take over some of his days. Um, and I just knew the team, I knew [01:01:05] Ken, I knew Richard, I knew Harry, I knew them pretty well. So then they sort of approached me with [01:01:10] the offer and said, well, we want someone we know. Um, and the good thing there is [01:01:15] for both of them is because I’ve joined so young, is given them the opportunity to create [01:01:20] an associate that they want, you know, someone they want to work with so they can sort of shape you. Okay. [01:01:25] We prefer if you do things this way. Example. Um, so [01:01:30] like Richard, for example, Richard is an absolute titan with composite bonding. You [01:01:35] know, if you look at any of his cases, it’s just, it’s just insane. Um, [01:01:40] so a lot of times if I’ve got anything composite related anteriorly or anything aesthetic, [01:01:45] you know, makeovers, veneers, whatever, he’ll always come into my room [01:01:50] without a doubt. Without me asking, he’ll come in and be like, oh, I think this is a bit off. Maybe [01:01:55] change this, maybe change that.

Payman Langroudi: An angulation, a colour.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Whatever, just like a cancer bit off or, or [01:02:00] the colour’s a bit off or change this and that opens your eyes to seeing, [01:02:05] okay, that’s how I need to be approaching these cases. Not this way. Um, so it really starts [01:02:10] to shape the way you look at everything. You know, the way I do. You know, like a like a new [01:02:15] patient consult changed after working there because you see how it’s different. You know, the clinic [01:02:20] in um Middleton MSG that practice is really digital. Everything is [01:02:25] by design and both practices are kois trained dentists. [01:02:30] So it follows a lot of the protocols. So Chris at Middleton’s [01:02:35] got a really specific way. He likes the check-ups to be done because they follow a certain [01:02:40] pathway. You know, scans are really important in practice. Everyone’s got a scanner so you can [01:02:45] show patients everything. Um, so yeah, I mean, the way I am now has [01:02:50] been totally shaped by those two clinics. Definitely.

Payman Langroudi: Now I’m thinking you should [01:02:55] do this course as well.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Oh I’m considering I would really like to, I would really [01:03:00] like to. It’s like a, it’d be like a dream course to do for sure.

Payman Langroudi: Oh no. That was going to be my next like [01:03:05] one of my, one of my questions here, like, is that the answer? No. No time or money constraints. [01:03:10] What course would you do?

Ali Hashemizadeh: 100% course. Yeah, 100%. It is. It’s a huge investment [01:03:15] time and money. Um, so we’ll see. We’ll see. Definitely. I’m definitely interested [01:03:20] in doing it. It looks amazing. It’s it’s just like everything, you know, [01:03:25] um, it looks really cool. And I, because the practice I work in, I use a lot of the [01:03:30] philosophy already. Yeah. So it’d be quite nice to then get the formal training for [01:03:35] it rather than the distilled version.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the biggest difference in [01:03:40] these two practices?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um. That’s [01:03:45] tough. Ken works in a very unique way. [01:03:50] And his patients are unique as well. You know, they, they, [01:03:55] they’ve all been with him since he started the clinic.

Payman Langroudi: So it tends to happen. Your [01:04:00] patients reflect you somehow. Yeah. Over the years, you.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Speak to you speak to his patients? And they [01:04:05] are like, obsessed with him in like a really good way. Like he knows everything about [01:04:10] these patients. They the dynamic is really interesting.

Payman Langroudi: The clinic big [01:04:15] shoes to fill. If you’re seeing some of his patients.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Massive shoes to fill. [01:04:20] And there’s like.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a real honour, man.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I mean, it’s [01:04:25] it’s it’s amazing. You know, the, the patients are really understanding [01:04:30] as well. You know, you’d think if I was a patient and I’ve been seeing someone like that for so long, [01:04:35] and then you come in and you see this young kid, you might be taken aback, but a [01:04:40] lot of them are really understanding. I think the idea that he sort of endorsed me [01:04:45] or endorsed Harry, because Harry is really young. He’s only a year older than me, and we both work there, endorsed [01:04:50] both of us. They’re really open and understanding that, okay, like, this is who I want to put my trust [01:04:55] in now. And don’t get me wrong, I know my limitations. I’m not going to start trying [01:05:00] to bang out cases like he’s done. No, Definitely not. But it’s the it’s the right environment [01:05:05] to slowly make my way to that side, you know, to that type of dentistry. [01:05:10]

Payman Langroudi: I had a guy, Mike Hesketh on the podcast. Listen to that one. No he doesn’t. [01:05:15] Yeah. He does, he does. He did, he did this thing where he, he, I don’t know. The [01:05:20] highlight is the number. Highlight is he bought the practice for £250,000 [01:05:25] four years later, sold it for 3.4 million to Bupa. And [01:05:30] then he bought another one for 700,000. And three years later it’s worth three point [01:05:35] whatever million. And he’s got a military background. And he said something about just following following [01:05:40] instructions. So he followed the instruction of his first coach or whatever. But [01:05:45] one of the things he does is he makes the clinical lead [01:05:50] in the practice, the youngest person.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And [01:05:55] it’s so surprising. It’s surprising. Yeah. And he said, yeah, the clinical lead [01:06:00] right now the practice practices 27 year old and she’s, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I said why but why [01:06:05] her?

Payman Langroudi: Like, why would you have the least experienced person? And he said two very interesting things. Man [01:06:10] one um, she’s not at all involved in the numbers of the practice. So [01:06:15] all the decisions are being made for good clinical reasons. Okay. Yeah. Whereas he’s fully involved [01:06:20] in the numbers, right. Yeah. And number two, she’s the one who’s closest to [01:06:25] university. So she’s the one closest to, you know, organised learning, latest [01:06:30] things, audits, these, these sort of things. And it’s such an interesting [01:06:35] notion, right? That of, of, of that because it just seems so counterintuitive.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. You never [01:06:40] have thought that’s the right way to do it.

Payman Langroudi: Would you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it works. It works like, you know, obviously [01:06:45] it’s kind of working here where Ken Harris is, is trusting his patience with you. Yeah. [01:06:50] Knowing he’s there, knowing that he’s got things in place that, you know, like [01:06:55] procedures in place in the practice and knowing that, you know, his patients trust [01:07:00] him enough that his choice for someone is going to be something that they’re going to accept, [01:07:05] right?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s interesting when you, when you fall, like, I [01:07:10] mean, putting all that trust in a young dentist, especially [01:07:15] for like a clinic that you’ve spent all your money on is bold.

Payman Langroudi: But there’s [01:07:20] an idealism in youth, isn’t there? You know, like you’re not tainted. Yeah, yeah, [01:07:25] yeah. Summer, spring in your step. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, there’s that. [01:07:30] Let’s, let’s ask some of the key questions that I like to ask. What’s your [01:07:35] favourite educational experience lecture course.

Ali Hashemizadeh: The [01:07:40] the most eye opening, like the one that stands out in my memory is [01:07:45] the first conference I went to in London. Um, [01:07:50] I walked into the lecture hall, sat at the back.

Payman Langroudi: Who were you, a student at the [01:07:55] time or PhD?

Ali Hashemizadeh: So yeah, so not long after I met you for the first time. Walk [01:08:00] in, sit in the back. I was running late lectures just starting. And it was Lucas Lassman.

Payman Langroudi: Mhm. [01:08:05]

Ali Hashemizadeh: And that lecture blew my mind just.

Payman Langroudi: The [01:08:10] about it.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Just the attention to detail. No stone left unturned. Everything [01:08:15] was covered and everything he basically everything he did, you know, [01:08:20] he started talking about airway dentistry as well. And that my I [01:08:25] left totally mind boggled, you know, but the.

Payman Langroudi: The good [01:08:30] way.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I mean, like I left with so much enthusiasm and motivation to. Okay, that [01:08:35] is cool. I want to do that at some point. How do I get there? And I just need to [01:08:40] do whatever I can to, you know, get better because that that is really interesting. And it’s just, [01:08:45] I can’t describe just being sat there and thinking about this type of [01:08:50] outcome is not something I could ever imagine doing. I don’t even know if this was possible. And I just [01:08:55] put it on the screen like it was nothing, you know, like it was just another day at work for him. So yeah, [01:09:00] that by far stands out. Definitely.

Payman Langroudi: Any others.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That [01:09:05] that is like a frontrunner. I don’t think everything pales in comparison to that. [01:09:10]

Payman Langroudi: Go on. I mean, what what was it about it the course that the guy himself everything. But so [01:09:15] was the treatments that that blew you away.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It was, it was.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yes. Like, [01:09:20] how on earth did he get these patients from, you know, a totally broken down mouth? Everything’s [01:09:25] collapsing. That patient can go to 100 dentists, and 50% of them would [01:09:30] say, you’re not getting any treatment here because it’s way too complicated. And he’s taking it and he’s made it [01:09:35] simple. He’s done it and it and it’s worked really well and his years of recall, [01:09:40] but actually it’s really complex work. But he’s made it look so easy. [01:09:45] And, and how can one person have all of that knowledge and skill at the same [01:09:50] time just blew me away. You know, it’s the same. You look at you listen to Ken speak, [01:09:55] or you look at any of his his recalls. I get to see it now, you know, you see the recalls and [01:10:00] it’s it’s real. You know, I’ve seen him lecture a few times and he puts on the [01:10:05] screen before and after and then shows you the next 15 years of recalls every [01:10:10] six months. And you’re like, this stuff lasts and nothing’s changed. Every [01:10:15] photo looks the exact same almost. And then you see the patient, the patient in real life and you’re like, [01:10:20] yeah, it is the exact same. Nothing’s changed. It’s been like 20 years, you know, and [01:10:25] it’s just how do you that is just amazing. [01:10:30] It’s like so inspiring that you can just get to that level of that level of dentistry [01:10:35] in your careers.

Payman Langroudi: Crazy love that. What about if I said, what’s [01:10:40] your favourite resource? Like it could be a book, it could be a YouTube [01:10:45] channel, it could be a podcast. It could be let’s have both dental and non-dental because you [01:10:50] seem into the A self-development piece.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, in Dental. [01:10:55] Um, Dental a lot of my learnings come from the internet, you know?

Payman Langroudi: Um, yeah, [01:11:00] but.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Comparatively, comparatively, I’ve done not too many courses and YouTube’s one of [01:11:05] the, the highlights, the, the, the Indo YouTube channel I watch [01:11:10] the most is this guy called I love, I love the pulp. I love pulp, I think is it I don’t know. Yeah, I [01:11:15] don’t know. I’m not actually sure of his his actual name.

Payman Langroudi: Something.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Like that. But his, his account [01:11:20] is amazing because he breaks down educational. Yeah. So it’s case by case learning. [01:11:25]

Payman Langroudi: So the dentist obviously.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. So it’s, you know, treating this complex [01:11:30] upper right, six curved canals, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But he breaks that. It’s [01:11:35] all recorded through his microscope and it breaks down every step. Why he’s deciding to use this file. [01:11:40] Why is he doing this type of an American? He’s no, he’s British. He’s from like the northwest. Oh, [01:11:45] really? Um, and it just breaks down every single aspect of the treatment. You’re like, oh, That’s [01:11:50] what I should be thinking, you know? Or it will be, you know, file retrieval, [01:11:55] render, whatever, whatever, any sort of type of treatment and endos he’s covered [01:12:00] and he’s covered really well and in detail. So it’s so easy to oh, I’ve got this type of case [01:12:05] coming up. I’ll just go on his YouTube channel search, whatever the main aspect of the [01:12:10] case, the difficult part of it will be, and he’s sure enough has made a video on it and made a really [01:12:15] good video on it. So his videos I watch all the time.

Payman Langroudi: I love that you don’t know his name. It’s beautiful. Like his [01:12:20] handle.

Ali Hashemizadeh: His handle is just. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s like me and the guy from Red [01:12:25] bull. Yeah, exactly.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You don’t need to.

Payman Langroudi: Know his name.

Ali Hashemizadeh: The brand.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, [01:12:30] but apart from that Instagram, you know, I’m sure.

Payman Langroudi: As you’re flicking, you’re saying. Or is [01:12:35] there a place specifically that’s giving you the most value on Instagram?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Like specifically you’ll go [01:12:40] on to, you know, you follow certain accounts, you know, are educational, you know, you [01:12:45] know, that are going to provide value, you know, like Prof. Blatz, for example. You know, everyone knows him. Everyone [01:12:50] follows him because you know, okay, I’ve got, you know, I’m fitting X, Y, Z, whatever. [01:12:55] What is the right way to do it? Just go on his page and you’ll find it. It’s brilliant. But also [01:13:00] you can follow different accounts. I follow so many people and everyone does their own niche. [01:13:05] And you can just pick up tips from everyone. You know. Um, there’s a guy in Dublin, [01:13:10] his Instagram’s Dublin endodontics. I don’t know anyone’s name. There’s no.

Payman Langroudi: Handles. [01:13:15] That’s how we know them.

Ali Hashemizadeh: But his, his cases are like just amazing. [01:13:20] You just, I don’t know how you can get that sort of outcome just with what [01:13:25] he’s doing. It’s I can’t explain it, but he recommended a book that [01:13:30] I’ve just ordered. It’s, um, I can’t remember. It’s [01:13:35] an ender book, something, something, a desk reference or something. Um, and it just, [01:13:40] he was like, yeah, this, this chapter, this chapter, this chapter, these are the ones I really focus on because these are really [01:13:45] interesting. This covers what I do. Yeah, brilliant. I can just go by that and learn.

Payman Langroudi: I love the fact [01:13:50] that, like, you’re passionate about endo. Like there’s someone else listening to this gig. This guy is off his [01:13:55] trolley. Yeah. For sure. So what’s what’s endo porn for you? Is it like those, [01:14:00] uh, those ninja access or. No, no, it’s.

Ali Hashemizadeh: The ones that are just so [01:14:05] broken down and they’re doing there’s like Herodotus, you know, they’re doing.

Payman Langroudi: All sorts [01:14:10] of.

Ali Hashemizadeh: They’re doing all sorts of wacky things, matrixing designs [01:14:15] to get it together.

Payman Langroudi: And yeah, it’s just, it’s just so.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s just because I’ve [01:14:20] you try that kind of stuff, maybe not to that degree, but you try it and [01:14:25] you know how hard it is when you see someone perform it to that level on Instagram, you’re like, [01:14:30] how? Just how, how have you achieved that type of outcome? Um, but it’s [01:14:35] good because all that stuff’s so inspiring. You know, you look at it and you can either see it and be like, I’m never going [01:14:40] to get there. I’m never going to achieve this. Or you can look at it and think, actually, that’s amazing. [01:14:45] How do I get there? And it just, you know, lights that fire inside you and you get excited about work [01:14:50] and then you can go in and be like, okay, I want to try that new technique I saw online. Um, [01:14:55] which is a lot of my learning has come from, you know, that’s where a lot of the new techniques, I’ll just see [01:15:00] it online and think, yeah, that’s what I need. That’s really useful and I can implement it on Monday. But, [01:15:05] um, outside of dentistry, I [01:15:10] think if it, if you can apply it to dentistry, um, perspective is a really [01:15:15] good one, right? So as I said earlier, when you have a really tough day and you can just step back and think, [01:15:20] you know, it’s fine, this will be okay. Um, there’s two books [01:15:25] I read them at uni, but the really good, uh, being mortal and [01:15:30] a man’s Search for meaning.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, I love that.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Both both of them put everything into perspective. Because [01:15:35] then you realise.

Payman Langroudi: That mortal I haven’t come across.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s so good.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the key?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Like, it’s about, [01:15:40] uh.

Payman Langroudi: You’re gonna die one day.

Ali Hashemizadeh: So it’s. Yeah, it’s essentially all about death, but [01:15:45] it’s a very personal story. You just read it and you understand that it [01:15:50] really puts everything into perspective that, you know, it doesn’t actually matter. You know, all the little things that you’re worrying [01:15:55] about, especially day to day. I’m like, oh, what’s that? Did I do that perfectly? Probably [01:16:00] you didn’t, but it’ll be okay. Like it’ll work and it’ll be fine, you know? But it’s so [01:16:05] easy to get so brought down by, by, especially if you go online and you [01:16:10] see people posting amazing work and you’ve just come home from work and you think you’ve just done a pretty bad [01:16:15] day’s work, you know, um, but it’s good. It’s really important today that it gives you that [01:16:20] chance to take a step back and think it’s actually okay. You know, it’s not that it’s not the end of the [01:16:25] world, you know, otherwise you just get so consumed by it all.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:16:30] you said modern wisdom as well.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Modern wisdom, the podcast that I’ve listened to since [01:16:35] uni, one of my me and one of my closest friends, we’ve been like modern wisdom junkies since. [01:16:40]

Payman Langroudi: It is good. It’s good. He makes me feel bad about myself because. Because he’s so focussed and [01:16:45] he’s from he’s from Newcastle. Is he is he, is he?

Ali Hashemizadeh: So I [01:16:50] think we must have been like second year or something. We’re on a night out. And we walked past the club that he was [01:16:55] working for or his club, and he was doing like tickets or whatever outside. And I was like, no [01:17:00] way, that’s you. And we went over and spoke to him and like, because it was so early on in his podcasts [01:17:05] career, he was so surprised to meet like us fans. You know, it’s quite [01:17:10] funny. It’s a funny interaction, but, um, no, such a good podcast.

Payman Langroudi: And okay, like, [01:17:15] listen, man, this, this podcasts are good for you. Like that one. Do you [01:17:20] have like a guilty pleasure?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, a guilty pleasure would be Phineas Finn [01:17:25] versus history. So he’s like a comedian and him and his co-host, they [01:17:30] talk about historical anything, you know, they’ll talk about [01:17:35] the arena revolution, for example, but they do it from a comedic perspective. [01:17:40] So they’ll go into detail of the history, but at the same time.

Payman Langroudi: It’s really sugar to sweeten. [01:17:45] The pill.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Is made to be really funny, and they go off track and it’s.

Payman Langroudi: What’s [01:17:50] it called, Finn versus history.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Versus history. It’s a bit crude, but like it’s really entertaining. And another [01:17:55] one I listened to all the time is, um, have a word. So it’s these Scouse [01:18:00] lads and they’re all comedians. And if you just need your commute home and you need to just laugh. [01:18:05] Yeah, you put it on and you’re yeah, you’re in tears within like ten minutes again. It’s quite a rude [01:18:10] podcast. It’s quite, you know, you have to be willing to endure some.

Payman Langroudi: I’m enjoying this, [01:18:15] this guilty pleasures. Let’s go into other guilty, other guilty pleasures like guilty pleasure, [01:18:20] fast food. Mine is KFC, man.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That’s [01:18:25] a good one.

Payman Langroudi: On a cold day, I can’t I can’t walk past KFC without thinking, oh. [01:18:30]

Ali Hashemizadeh: I’d have to be like shawarma when I lived in London, the. The [01:18:35] good thing is there’s not much near me in Newcastle Otherwise, when I lived here, it was all the time. [01:18:40] It’s so easy.

Payman Langroudi: Guilty pleasure. Um. Music.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Oh.

Payman Langroudi: Go [01:18:45] on. Oh.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That’s tough. That’s tough.

Payman Langroudi: This should be a whole new [01:18:50] section of my pod, man.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You could, you know, recently I guilty [01:18:55] about a friend of mine was like, you need to listen to a song again because everyone knows [01:19:00] it. Katy Perry, teenage dream.

Payman Langroudi: Which was that? How’d it go? Oh, I’m not singing [01:19:05] it.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I think it’s called Teenage Dream at least. Um. It’s so good. So good. So that’s [01:19:10] your. That’d be that would have to be currently. Currently it’s you know, it swings. [01:19:15] I love that about yourself. What have you got?

Payman Langroudi: Some, some some like crappy love song. [01:19:20] You know, like. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Sounds about right.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:19:25] KFC though, for sure. For sure. Um, I listen [01:19:30] to a lot of politics podcasts. Mhm. Yeah. And it’s interesting, like [01:19:35] things I do for me, right? I listen to restaurant podcasts, food, podcasts, chefs. [01:19:40]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Mhm. Yeah, yeah. A lot of that’s what my YouTube is made up of. A lot of. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. There’s a, [01:19:45] there’s a series I used to watch at uni all the time called Chef’s Night Out.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. [01:19:50]

Ali Hashemizadeh: So they, they just spend an evening with a chef. So they, they go [01:19:55] to the restaurant, see what it’s like. Then that chef will take these, you know, [01:20:00] the camera crew and a group of their own friends on their favourite night out. So it’s like all their favourite [01:20:05] restaurants, all their favourite bars. And it’s all.

Payman Langroudi: Is it a YouTube thing?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. And it’s all the places that [01:20:10] they go to regularly their.

Payman Langroudi: Friends.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Bars, their friends restaurants. And at the end they go back to their restaurant [01:20:15] and they cook for everyone.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, what a great show. Definitely send me the link to that.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I will. It’s so good. [01:20:20]

Payman Langroudi: It’s my favourite, favourite, favourite Anthony Bourdain. Oh yeah. Like my favourite.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Without a doubt.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:20:25] watch, I watch and listen like I’ve. I think I’ve seen it all now. Seen everything he’s ever done. [01:20:30] Yeah. But now I even listen to episodes that I’ve watched.

Ali Hashemizadeh: You go back through it, it, don’t you? Yeah, yeah. [01:20:35] Um, there’s a, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, [01:20:40] so I attended his, uh, Dental disruptors thing the other day, the other week, [01:20:45] and he gave us a book, um, unreasonable hospitality.

Payman Langroudi: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. [01:20:50] It’s, uh, I’m like halfway through it. And that is brilliant book. That was brilliant.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That is so good. And [01:20:55] the same the podcast with Chris on Modern Wisdom with Will the right, the author [01:21:00] of the book. Yeah. So good, so good that it opens your mind up to that [01:21:05] restaurant business that I’ve never even considered.

Payman Langroudi: Maybe I’ve got friends at [01:21:10] all levels in the restaurant world. Yeah, yeah. It’s a nightmare business. Like we [01:21:15] complain.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah about us. But like, you know, like if you go to a restaurant, you order something [01:21:20] for £49. It seems like quite an expensive plate. [01:21:25] Yeah, yeah. But when we do a filling for £49, it seems like a really cheap filling. [01:21:30]

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But you know, you can’t charge more than 49 or once [01:21:35] in a while. I’ve paid £100 for a steak or something. Yeah, that’s kind of the limit [01:21:40] of it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so it’s hard to make money, man, because you [01:21:45] have to buy that stuff. You have to cook it. You have to do all of that, make it better than everyone else’s. [01:21:50] Yeah. Um, although when it works, it’s amazing. You know, like I heard Dishoom had like a $100 [01:21:55] million, $200 million, uh, valuation or something.

Ali Hashemizadeh: It’s crazy.

Payman Langroudi: And did you [01:22:00] that the guy, uh, caring. Richard caring. He just sold, um, [01:22:05] Ivy group for 1.4 billion. So. Ivy. Lucky [01:22:10] cat. Whatever.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: But [01:22:15] think how many restaurants fail.

Payman Langroudi: There must be so many loads. Loads.

Ali Hashemizadeh: There must be so [01:22:20] many.

Payman Langroudi: Such a hard job. Some of them were my friends had, like their dads had one restaurant. [01:22:25] You know, just the commitment, the work and just [01:22:30] the not knowing what’s going to happen next kind of thing. Let’s go like end it by kind [01:22:35] of projecting forward. What do you reckon? What comes to mind if I say your ideal five [01:22:40] year, ten year outcome?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Just [01:22:45] good ten year.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That’s good. Ten year, ten year. I think ten year as long as clinically. [01:22:50] I don’t think it really matters what I’m doing as long as it’s [01:22:55] fun, you know, as long as you still wake up.

Payman Langroudi: Enjoying the.

Ali Hashemizadeh: As long as you still wake up on Monday and you’re you [01:23:00] don’t have to be, you know, super excited about work, but you don’t hate it. You know, you’re, you’re looking forward to what you’ve got that [01:23:05] day. I think that’s important. Um, I think it’s too hard [01:23:10] to, to plan and predict ten years ahead. Even five years is so hard because things change [01:23:15] so much.

Payman Langroudi: Ai.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah. Or God knows what’s gonna happen. But, um, as long as, you know, as long [01:23:20] as there’s a balance between, you know, work is still fun and I enjoy it enough and I don’t hate it. [01:23:25] Yeah. Then I can’t really ask for much more really, because otherwise, you know, but.

Payman Langroudi: You’re not giving me any further [01:23:30] details. You’re not saying like, oh, I think I might be a practice owner by then. I might own a hundred [01:23:35] practice, like whatever. I mean, I might be a specialist.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. I mean, you don’t could, I could go down the route [01:23:40] of speciality by ten years time. I don’t think I will. I think I’d more likely I’m going to edge [01:23:45] towards saying a general dentist, but covering more things in more detail. Yeah. Hopefully [01:23:50] in ten years time I’m doing a lot more just complex work. So like rehabs [01:23:55] would be the goal. That would be really cool. Um, practice ownership hasn’t [01:24:00] it’s not something I’ve considered really. I think it if [01:24:05] you asked me this when I was at uni or three years ago, I would say 100% [01:24:10] no, I would never do it really, because it just seems like so much of a commitment [01:24:15] to what’s like a, it’s like a baby and it’s so all [01:24:20] consuming, you know, it becomes your life. And I’ve seen it in principles before. You know, that that [01:24:25] is everything to them. That’s what they’re working on all the time. Um, and I think that pulls you [01:24:30] away from your personal life quite a lot. And I don’t want that. I think the beauty [01:24:35] of being an associate is you can arrive, you can do your job, you can earn a living, [01:24:40] and then you can go home and not worry about the rest. Whereas I think as a practice owner, you don’t have that [01:24:45] luxury. And I don’t want that. You know.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, there’s there’s few jobs [01:24:50] as brilliant as a happy associate.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Happy associate. I mean, there’s very many [01:24:55] unhappy associates. Yeah. But you don’t look like one of them. No, no.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Fortunately [01:25:00] not.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, it depends on what makes you happy as well. Right. Um, but there is few jobs. But [01:25:05] I remember being a happy associate around your stage. Mhm. Man, you’re king of the world, right? [01:25:10] You’re making money. You’re laughing with your patients. You’re laughing with your team. [01:25:15] Like you say, 530, it’s all over. Do what the hell you like after that. It’s [01:25:20] a good point, man.

Ali Hashemizadeh: But you never know. You know, in ten years time, you might think, actually, I want to. All this [01:25:25] time I’m investing into work. Why not have something to show for it? That’s not just [01:25:30] my monthly wage, you know. Why not have something that’s like, an asset, I guess. Um. Which [01:25:35] which I see on the.

Payman Langroudi: Side on the business side, you know, obviously you can make more being an associate [01:25:40] depending on how well you operate. Of course. Yeah. Um, but often, you know, it’s like [01:25:45] a kind of one of the reasons people switch from associate to principal. [01:25:50] The key reason it’s like a control point. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you [01:25:55] know, your, your idea of what the patient journey could be diverges, [01:26:00] you know, even it could be on a building kind of level. It could be a [01:26:05] geography thing. It could be, I mean, I mean, obviously I get to see a lot of practices. Yeah. There are some [01:26:10] really extraordinary practices out there, man. There are some there are some really interesting [01:26:15] looking places you’ll see at ministry when I’ve invited people for that, [01:26:20] particularly that alternative patient journeys that they’ve done different looking places. [01:26:25] Some places they, they, they filter. Um, I’m thinking [01:26:30] of small stories. They filter patients. By the time the patients sitting in [01:26:35] the chair, he’s already going to go ahead. Yeah. You know, like kind of in your situation. [01:26:40] But you know, that’s practices have been built up over 30 years. Yeah. This practice that was [01:26:45] set up last year. Yeah. Um, so some that [01:26:50] might be the reason why you decide to go out on your own.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. You find a lot of times like clinical freedom [01:26:55] as well. Right. You know, you want to be doing it in your way because you’re always what you think is best. [01:27:00] But yeah, we’ll see. Ten years, a long time, maybe in ten years time. If we have this conversation again, [01:27:05] I’ll have a practice. But I’m not convinced at the moment. At the moment, practice ownership is not on my it’s [01:27:10] it’s not on my radar, but it’s so early.

Payman Langroudi: Although although although some people, you know, I had Anushka [01:27:15] from, uh, DiMera.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Mhm. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: She, she had decided she wanted a corporate [01:27:20] in dental school. Wow. Yeah. And now she just got her 50th practice, and [01:27:25] she told me 50 was her goal.

Ali Hashemizadeh: There you.

Payman Langroudi: Go. She was 34 or [01:27:30] something. 41 when she came on the pod. Yeah yeah yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. It’s crazy. That’s spectacular. [01:27:35]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Three children as well. Um, let’s end it with [01:27:40] the fantasy dinner party.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Three guests, dead [01:27:45] or alive.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. This is we, you know, we spoke a little bit about [01:27:50] you.

Payman Langroudi: Telling me you don’t like to idolise people. No. Go on then.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Because I think no matter who you idolise [01:27:55] for this dinner party, let’s say you, you you have to [01:28:00] idolise them. In my head as a whole, as a person. So if you take someone, you really [01:28:05] you really like their work ethic, right? But then you don’t know what’s going on beyond [01:28:10] that. You know, you don’t know what’s going on in their family life, what they’re like at home. So I think for me, my [01:28:15] answer has always been, I’ve listened to this podcast for ages. So I’ve thought about this a lot has [01:28:20] always just been my mum and dad and my sister, which you said is a cop out, [01:28:25] which I understand because I could just go home and have dinner with them all. Yeah. But the [01:28:30] way I, the way I’ll justify it is you speak to someone who’s, I [01:28:35] guess, you know, you speak to someone who’s older on their deathbed. Generally their advice is going to be what? [01:28:40] Have fun.

Payman Langroudi: Spend more time with your.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Family, spend your time with your family and there maybe work a little [01:28:45] bit less, worry about money less. But if they weren’t alive, you would take the answer, [01:28:50] right? You’d say, yeah, it’s an understandable answer to give, you know, like great.

Payman Langroudi: Because it’s called a [01:28:55] fantasy dinner party. That’s why.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, yeah. But it’s like your great grandparents, your grandparents and things. [01:29:00] But for me, it’s, you know, the only people I’ve looked up to idolised, I guess, [01:29:05] is my family.

Payman Langroudi: So maybe, maybe the idle word is just constricting for you.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Maybe.

Payman Langroudi: Who would you [01:29:10] like to meet?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, if I had to pick someone, a [01:29:15] Chris Williamson would definitely be one because I’ve consumed all of his content before. [01:29:20]

Payman Langroudi: You’ve met him already, but. Okay.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You want to talk to him?

Ali Hashemizadeh: Met him in passing. Met him in person. [01:29:25]

Payman Langroudi: To talk to him. Yeah. Okay.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um. Brian Cox. Professor? [01:29:30] Yeah, professor. That’d be a really.

Payman Langroudi: Cool guy, man. What a great guy.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Third one.

Payman Langroudi: Did [01:29:35] you go to the event where he was speaking in Dental showcase?

Ali Hashemizadeh: No, no, I didn’t, but I did see on [01:29:40] my phone. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Avi Banerjee was interviewing him. [01:29:45] Yeah. Do you know have you.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Not personally, but I know.

Payman Langroudi: He’s brilliant, but but he he [01:29:50] he said it was it was like one of the biggest days of his life.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Understandably.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, he’s a professor [01:29:55] himself, right? Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, it’s a beautiful thing.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Um, a [01:30:00] third one.

Payman Langroudi: Sports someone.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I [01:30:05] think I would go with. Oh. I’m [01:30:10] stuck. Let’s go with. Can I give you two? Can we stick [01:30:15] with those two?

Payman Langroudi: Of course, of course. Cause we’re breaking all the goddamn rules.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I can’t give you a third one. [01:30:20] Maybe I’ll come up with one later, but.

Payman Langroudi: Give me two. Two more you were going to give me?

Ali Hashemizadeh: No, no, [01:30:25] no. Let’s go with those two.

Payman Langroudi: No, no. Come on. Who do you admire most in business? Who do you admire most in sports? Who do [01:30:30] you admire most in, you know, just. Just hit me. Oh.

Ali Hashemizadeh: I [01:30:35] think I would go with the. The [01:30:40] guy who wrote Atomic Habits, the book. I can’t think of his name, but [01:30:45] it’s a cool book. I really liked it. I read it when I was at uni and it.

Payman Langroudi: The problem with atomic habits, dude, is [01:30:50] that if you are like me, you’ll never finish the book, so [01:30:55] you can never build a habit. Yeah.

Ali Hashemizadeh: That’s the problem. That’s what you need to read the book.

Payman Langroudi: You need [01:31:00] to read the book. Yeah, yeah. You need to get like ChatGPT to summarise it first and then. [01:31:05]

Ali Hashemizadeh: In summary notes or even Simon Sinek who you mentioned earlier, he’d [01:31:10] be a really cool person to meet because he’s yeah, he’s pretty spectacular.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing [01:31:15] man. I had such an amazing time talking.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah. Me too. Thanks for having me.

Payman Langroudi: Flown by like [01:31:20] an hour and 40.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. Thanks so much for coming. And I’m going to see you in ministry, man. [01:31:25] Yeah, it’s gonna be lots and lots of fun.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Yeah, I’m looking forward to it.

Payman Langroudi: Take care everybody.

Ali Hashemizadeh: Thank you very much.

[VOICE]: This [01:31:30] is Dental Leaders, the podcast [01:31:35] where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:31:40] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav [01:31:45] Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. If you got this far, you must [01:31:50] have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking [01:31:55] through and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you [01:32:00] got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And [01:32:05] if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank [01:32:10] you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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