Payman Langroudi: One of the most common questions I get is how do I do more teeth whitening? The basis of that is to really [00:00:05] believe in it, and the basis of that is to fully understand it. Join us for enlightened online training on [00:00:10] enlightened online training to understand how to assess a case quickly, how to deliver [00:00:15] brilliant results every time. Next time. Whitening underwhelms try and lighten. Now let’s get to the [00:00:20] pod.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:25] is Dental Leaders. The podcast where you [00:00:30] get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:35] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav [00:00:40] Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Jawad Quinn [00:00:45] to the podcast. Um, Rawa is a dentist who’s [00:00:50] now branched out into tech. Yeah. Um, with your Medicube product. [00:00:55] That’s correct. I’m very interested in that whole founder journey. Um, [00:01:00] everything that it takes. And I haven’t done it myself. Right? Yeah. The sort of Earth’s [00:01:05] gravitational pull, which I call dentistry and, you know, coming out of that [00:01:10] and, uh, your, your journey so far with, with the investment [00:01:15] co-founders, all of that really want to get into all of that. Yeah. [00:01:20] Lovely to have you.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Payman really appreciate it.

Payman Langroudi: All the way from Belfast. [00:01:25]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. So I live in Belfast now.

Payman Langroudi: How long have you been there?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So I’ve been there for four years. [00:01:30] Um, it’s a great place. It’s very safe. Like you can leave [00:01:35] stuff anywhere and people won’t steal. Yeah, because everyone knows each other. Um. [00:01:40] So. No, I love Belfast. It’s really good.

Payman Langroudi: Where were you before? Belfast.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So I used to live in South London, [00:01:45] so I was like round Clapham.

Payman Langroudi: You grew up in South London?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, I grew up on the Kings Road. [00:01:50] Did you? Yeah, but we weren’t, we weren’t well off like we lived. Um, we lived [00:01:55] in a flat on the Kings Road.

Payman Langroudi: Um We’re both.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So literally [00:02:00] like it was, I think it was called there was a Guinness building. [00:02:05] We weren’t the Guinness building, which would be ironic. Me living in Belfast now. Um, [00:02:10] no, it was um winch house, that’s where we lived. So it was like right in the centre [00:02:15] of the King’s Road that like our flat is worth so much money. Now if we bought it, [00:02:20] but we didn’t. Um, and yeah, it was a nice upbringing. Well it was, [00:02:25] I went to Ashburnham School. It was a little school, like right near it. And [00:02:30] actually the community was so lovely. Like none of us like were very well off. [00:02:35] Um, you know, like high, like low socioeconomic. Um, [00:02:40] you know, loads of like very low household income families. [00:02:45] Um, but it was a really nice community and I’m like in touch with loads [00:02:50] of my friends from school.

Payman Langroudi: Um, they’re the best.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: They’re really nice.

Payman Langroudi: They are the best.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:02:55] Like I really wish them well. And they’re very sweet. Like.

Payman Langroudi: You know, I’ve got friends from school, from university [00:03:00] family, all that school friends or something else.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Weird, isn’t it? What I find really [00:03:05] interesting is how little people change. You know, when we’re all 50, whatever, 52, whatever it is, 53. [00:03:10] Um, same character as the kid was when he was 11, you know?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: God, [00:03:15] I’ve had that realisation recently. Yeah. Like, I think even from the age of three, you [00:03:20] can kind of tell someone’s character. Yeah. And it sort of doesn’t ever change. [00:03:25]

Payman Langroudi: And where did you study dentistry?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So I studied in Liverpool. Um, [00:03:30] and it was great. Yeah, I really enjoyed. I’m still in contact with some of the lecturers actually, and they’re [00:03:35] very helpful. Um, with Medicube as well. They’ve been fantastic.

Payman Langroudi: Was [00:03:40] that on purpose you went to Liverpool or by mistake?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No. Well, I wanted to get out of London, to be honest. [00:03:45] Yeah, I did, I was like.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a good foresight to have that foresight to want to get out [00:03:50] because I didn’t.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Want.

Payman Langroudi: You know, when you’re 17, you think you know it all. I didn’t want to get out. I was [00:03:55] forced out like I didn’t get the grades. I ended up in my reserve place. [00:04:00]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s typical though, isn’t it? Yeah, it happens to so many.

Payman Langroudi: I adored it. It was the best thing that [00:04:05] ever happened. And then I forced my son, who just went to university, to leave London. Really? He [00:04:10] was thinking of Imperial College, which is like the building next door to his school. And he goes to the [00:04:15] lycée. The French school.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: And I said, listen, like, [00:04:20] leave and reinvent. And when I say reinvent, I don’t necessarily mean make up a new [00:04:25] person. It’s almost like this. This there’s someone in you who you’re not letting out because [00:04:30] of the, the guardrails, the kind of the framework that you’re growing up in. And [00:04:35] then you get to the new town. Were you like that when you got to Liverpool?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I think Liverpool. I went there and I [00:04:40] did go mad and I was away from like family.

Payman Langroudi: Which year was it?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, so [00:04:45] God, it’s so long ago, 2009. So I was, I went mad, [00:04:50] I was wild. Were you, were you. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Excellent.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: And I think that was what was so funny. Like [00:04:55] even those friends that I made, they’re still in touch with still really good friends. Um, it’s [00:05:00] harder now to reach out, like as often, but whenever we see each other, it’s like nothing’s changed. [00:05:05] But they, they must have thought I was absolutely nuts because we’d [00:05:10] go on a night out. We’d have, like, so much fun would be wild and whatever. And then it [00:05:15] got to like February and I just like started to become really elusive and [00:05:20] they like, wouldn’t see me anymore and I would be in the library, like constantly because [00:05:25] the other side of me came out of like, oh my God, I’ve been having too much fun and like, I’m [00:05:30] gonna fail.

Payman Langroudi: Wait, were you like a girly swot in school?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, no, [00:05:35] I was a real, um, I think at school, I was like a drifter. [00:05:40] I was always a drifter. Just drift between different groups. Um, and [00:05:45] then. But I would work really hard because, like, I am actually like dyslexic. [00:05:50] Um, and that was diagnosed very late, that was diagnosed at university. [00:05:55] So I had a lot of coping mechanisms and strategies. I used to like work really, really [00:06:00] hard. And, um, university was hard for me. Like academically, [00:06:05] I’ve really actually found it very difficult. Um, so yeah, my friends would find it so funny [00:06:10] because like from February to June, you wouldn’t see me. I would be in the library like, [00:06:15] so.

Payman Langroudi: Put it, verbalise it for me. Like the feeling of being dyslexic. Are [00:06:20] there certain concepts you just can’t pick up and others that you find really easy?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No. Like [00:06:25] now honestly doesn’t show for me. My dyslexia is like really not obvious, but I’ll [00:06:30] explain it like this. When I was a kid learning about the world, I couldn’t [00:06:35] grasp why things were done a certain way. So like when I was taught the [00:06:40] alphabet and the time, those were two times I specifically remember at school being [00:06:45] incredibly frustrated. I would like, I just couldn’t understand because I was like, [00:06:50] really? I was smart, but when it came to those two things. I couldn’t understand [00:06:55] what they were teaching me. Why they were teaching me, what was the value of what I was learning. [00:07:00] And it really frustrated me. And I would like get I would get really upset and [00:07:05] like, that’s.

Payman Langroudi: Because you were undiagnosed as well.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes, yes. And back then [00:07:10] it wasn’t like dyslexia wasn’t a thing. It was like, okay, you’re not listening. You’re not focusing, [00:07:15] you know, so I that was what I found really hard. Um, but actually it’s been [00:07:20] a bit of a superpower, if I’m honest, like.

Payman Langroudi: Some of the most successful people are dyslexic.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, [00:07:25] yeah, I mean, only recently I’ve been able to like account a lot of my success to [00:07:30] my dyslexia. The upside is huge. Like so, okay, so things like this, like [00:07:35] I can read loads of different books and topics that are completely unrelated [00:07:40] and I can see like a thread of how they link and I can like reapply [00:07:45] concepts. So it’s really fun. Like I am a big picture thinker, so [00:07:50] I can see I can like basically learn something about, yeah, completely unrelated topic, reapply [00:07:55] it somewhere else. And it’s really fun. I love doing that. And that’s how I’ve always learned [00:08:00] actually, even, um, I think with maths, even I loved learning [00:08:05] to do things the long, hard way because that meant I understood them [00:08:10] and I can re-apply pieces to different. Um, so.

Payman Langroudi: Is that when you, when you’re looking [00:08:15] at something, do you have to understand it fully?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Some people, some people [00:08:20] like that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: And I am like that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s a pain, but it’s also brilliant because yeah, once you [00:08:25] understand it fully, then you can really like adjust it and make it yours.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Totally. [00:08:30]

Payman Langroudi: I noticed that with people I know who are like that, but if you want to explain something to them, you can’t just gloss [00:08:35] over it. You have to go from the beginning.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, that’s what’s frustrating for a lot of people. [00:08:40] Like explaining stuff to me, especially my husband. He gets so wound up trying to explain [00:08:45] stuff, but it’s because like, so where it’s been so beneficial is [00:08:50] in dentistry as well. I struggled so much to learn [00:08:55] dentistry. And then when I came out into practice, I don’t know what happened. [00:09:00] It just like all came together so fast and like I could see, um, [00:09:05] I can’t explain it. Like I just, I was so focussed on like, okay, [00:09:10] this is what I want to do in my career. I had this goal three years in. I was like, I want to be the best [00:09:15] dentist in the world. And that was like what I was working to. And very early on, I worked [00:09:20] in really high end private practice and I was mentored. Actually, [00:09:25] I had lived in Belfast in 2017 and 2018, just for a year and a half, worked [00:09:30] at a really high end practice there called Gentle Dental Care, was mentored by the dentist there. [00:09:35] She is incredible. Like I would still.

Payman Langroudi: Chat her up.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Worship her. Lucy [00:09:40] Stock she’s amazing. She’s amazing. Dentist. Um, and then [00:09:45] I did like the crystal course and um, that was incredible as well. Really good foundation. [00:09:50] Everything just came together and I just realised, um, I [00:09:55] think I just, I like really my career just leapt forward really fast. Right? And I got [00:10:00] really good at doing dentistry, but then I realised that it [00:10:05] just sort of came crashing down really early where I was like, this isn’t enough. [00:10:10] Like this isn’t going to make me happy. I can’t do this forever. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That [00:10:15] feeling too.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How old were you when that happened?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Uh, 29. [00:10:20]

Payman Langroudi: 28.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Were you? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know what, I was sitting. I figured out how to do veneers. [00:10:25] I think it was at the time. There was no Invisalign back then. I’d figured out veneers, and I was really happy [00:10:30] about veneers. I was making loads of money, and I suddenly had this moment [00:10:35] where I thought, even if I do the best [00:10:40] job in the world, my impact is five miles radius of [00:10:45] this building. And at the time I was in Folkestone somewhere. You know, I was in. Yeah. V t plus [00:10:50] one kind of job. Yeah. And I wanted more impact. I childishly, [00:10:55] if I have to be honest, be honest with you. It was a bit childish because you can have impact, right? [00:11:00] You can open 100 practices if you’re man enough or woman enough. Yeah, yeah. So I could have had impact. But [00:11:05] somehow in that childish moment, I thought my impact has to be something other than being a [00:11:10] dentist.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I totally see that. I do see that completely. And I think [00:11:15] for me, there was, there was a bit more of a frustration, not [00:11:20] the impact so much. What I found was like, you could build [00:11:25] a really strong foundation in one practice. Then if something [00:11:30] happened to that job and you were not happy and you had to move to another practice, you’re starting again training [00:11:35] a team, um, building that trust in the [00:11:40] team and the workflow and everything. And that was a huge problem for me. And [00:11:45] then what I found was I’ve worked at a lot of practices, by the way, I’ve worked at 16 practices [00:11:50] and I’ve really and that’s another one of my superpowers that really gets [00:11:55] underestimated. I can walk into a practice. I can work there for [00:12:00] maybe two weeks. And I can tell you exactly, uh, pretty [00:12:05] much who shouldn’t work there, who’s not interested, who’s, who’s not trainable. [00:12:10] You know, there are people who take on jobs, and you can’t train [00:12:15] them to be any better than they are because they’ll never care. Um, I get that sense really fast. [00:12:20] And, um, so.

Payman Langroudi: It’s like an EQ thing rather than an IQ thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I don’t [00:12:25] know, I don’t think.

Payman Langroudi: I have emotional intelligence that you sort of understand people quickly.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I don’t think I have great [00:12:30] EQ, I honestly don’t. Like I’m not, I’m not that like, you know, there are people that are really charming [00:12:35] and they can like sell anything. I don’t think I’m like that, but I don’t, I. [00:12:40] I don’t know what it is. I can just tell straight away, but usually I have to work with someone. I have to get [00:12:45] a sense of their, um, how they complete their tasks.

Payman Langroudi: Like a member of staff, [00:12:50] a nurse or something.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Their attention to detail, reception team, pretty much everyone. I get like a strong sense of. [00:12:55]

Payman Langroudi: I definitely want to talk about this then because whenever I talk to a specialist. Yeah, you know how specialist, a [00:13:00] lot of them jump between 16 practices.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: I’m really fascinated by the notion of, [00:13:05] so what lessons do you learn from like good and bad from different practices? [00:13:10] I do want to go there.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Not right now, but I do want to go there because, you know, it’s [00:13:15] one of those I’ve only ever worked in for practices. So and [00:13:20] each one was completely different. And so, you know, your experience and practices is [00:13:25] quadruple mine, right? So I’m interested to hear those lessons.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: And even like I’ve worked at big [00:13:30] practices as well. So you see huge teams. Um, so you’re exposed to a [00:13:35] lot of people. So I’ve worked at really big, really small NHS private, high end bog [00:13:40] standard. I’ve done, I’ve done it all. I think that was also my my piece of my dyslexia. [00:13:45] Being like, I really need to understand dentistry before I really know where I want [00:13:50] to place myself. That probably is part of my I mean, I don’t know if it’s dyslexia or my personality [00:13:55] really.

Payman Langroudi: But a couple of things are a bit of a rewind. You said you were in, uh, [00:14:00] Chelsea. Westminster. Sorry. Chelsea and Kensington. Kensington, Chelsea in [00:14:05] a low socioeconomic group, but both your parents are doctors.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So how [00:14:10] does that play out?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, um, so we so basically we used to live [00:14:15] in Kuwait, um, when I was young, and then the war broke out between Iraq [00:14:20] and Kuwait and I’m Iraqi while.

Payman Langroudi: Living in Kuwait.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: While we were living in Kuwait.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:14:25] Iraq was number one.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Which is so interesting because like, I’ve never in my [00:14:30] life really been able to understand, like actually what [00:14:35] happened to us in like a, like visceral sense because like we had [00:14:40] all of our assets seized. Um, so my parents lost everything. Like [00:14:45] we were living a great life out there. You know, they were doing very well. Um, what.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of doctor’s.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Orders? Um, [00:14:50] so my dad’s a paediatrician. He didn’t do that anymore. He went into GP and my mum, I [00:14:55] don’t think she actually specialised in anything. She was just a general, um GP [00:15:00] uh, sorry. General doctor went on to be a GP and um so yeah, [00:15:05] we had all of our assets seized. It was me, my brother and sister, you know, I was like [00:15:10] three at the time. My sister was um like ten and my [00:15:15] brother was like eight. And uh, yeah, we just had to.

Payman Langroudi: Run [00:15:20] away to the UK.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Came to the UK.

Payman Langroudi: Um, start from completely zero.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:15:25] And it was really difficult as well because back in those days, like you would. So my dad would was [00:15:30] trying to get recruited to be in the army and all of this stuff. And it was really hard. So it was, it was [00:15:35] really uncertain time. But anyway, we got to the UK. Um, and then yeah, [00:15:40] we didn’t really have anything and my parents had to basically train up from being like the equivalent [00:15:45] qualify. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Because they studied in Iraq.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, essentially. Yeah. [00:15:50] Well they studied in Egypt.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. So they had to kind of, um, [00:15:55] start as a v t basically not a v t um.

Payman Langroudi: During the doctor.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Junior doctor. [00:16:00] Yeah, exactly. Which I think was a bit of, you know, it’s a bit humiliating for [00:16:05] a doctor who’s worked so long and has done so well for themselves. And now you’re just training with like new [00:16:10] grads. So, um, and they were working a lot. They were doing a lot of night shifts, [00:16:15] um, different parts of the UK, like my mum [00:16:20] was in Doncaster at one point, my dad was in Wales. Um, but at the time.

Payman Langroudi: Was [00:16:25] it enough to put you off medicine?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: 100%. Oh my God, 1,000,000%. [00:16:30] Like I see, I see people now that are doctors that are married and [00:16:35] I just I listened to their story now and they’re like, yeah, we don’t have kids because we [00:16:40] don’t know how we’ll make it work. So I think now it’s like people are very responsible. When [00:16:45] you bring a child into the world, you want to have a good, you know, a good [00:16:50] life for them. And I think it’s put a lot of doctors off, but it’s very unfair on them. [00:16:55] Like I don’t think it gets enough publicity on like how hard it is for them to raise kids, [00:17:00] how traumatising it is for their children. I mean, that was a huge part of like, [00:17:05] um, you know, my upbringing was like very much like my, my sister [00:17:10] when I mean, my mum had to kind of go and work when I was maybe like six, [00:17:15] um, my sister was 16 and it was really difficult, like [00:17:20] my sister was taking on like the role of caring for me. Um, and [00:17:25] that was hard. That was really.

Payman Langroudi: Underestimate it when both parents are in medicine. I mean, I know [00:17:30] loads of people where one of them is a surgeon and the other one is running everything at [00:17:35] home. But then I know loads of people, two doctors, and either one of them has to take [00:17:40] a real break on their career or, you know, nannies come into [00:17:45] play.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Payman Langroudi: But that notion of, you know, my brother, my brother and his [00:17:50] wife are doctors, both of them. And right now at this moment, they’ve got two young kids. And [00:17:55] there isn’t one day that all four of them are together. Yeah, even during the weekend.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s so.

Payman Langroudi: Sad. Which [00:18:00] is which is difficult, right? It’s so hard trying to address it, but yeah, but you’re right, it doesn’t get talked about enough. [00:18:05] Tell me about the ambition piece because you’re clearly very ambitious. It’s very [00:18:10] obvious.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Is it.

Payman Langroudi: Obvious? Yeah. Were you always know? [00:18:15] Was there an inflection point?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, God, I was. So this is actually I think this goes a lot back [00:18:20] to my upbringing. I was very underestimated as a child. Oh, yeah. So I, um, look, [00:18:25] I grew up in a, in a household where I, you know, I had to figure a lot out for myself. [00:18:30] And it was it was very difficult. Like it wasn’t like I wasn’t [00:18:35] like read bedtime stories and I wasn’t like, you know, I, I just got on [00:18:40] with it. And it was hard. Like it wasn’t a nice, um, [00:18:45] upbringing. And I think what that did was it created a sense [00:18:50] of, okay, so as a child, it created a lot of confusion. [00:18:55] Um, because I.

Payman Langroudi: They were positives, right? Self-reliance, that sort of thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, but as a child, you don’t [00:19:00] see it that way. As a child, you think everyone has your life. So then [00:19:05] you go to school and you pick up on things like, I don’t know, really unusual things [00:19:10] like just how cared for people other people are. And you do sort of [00:19:15] think, huh, that’s weird. Like, you know, just it just, [00:19:20] it just occurs to you and you don’t really understand why they’re living such a different life to you. [00:19:25] Um, and then as you get older, you kind of realise a [00:19:30] bit more what happened. And then I think it takes a really long time to process your childhood. I think a lot of people [00:19:35] in their 30s are still processing their childhood. And for me, um, very [00:19:40] early on, I realised that being a child was it just was [00:19:45] it sucked. And the reason it sucked is because I had no say in what I do. So after [00:19:50] that, it was like, when I’m an adult, I’m going to take full control of my life. And [00:19:55] I think what happened was I just realised that there was like, nothing I couldn’t [00:20:00] do if I put my mind to it. So the ambition piece comes from the self-belief [00:20:05] of like, I genuinely know that there’s like nothing [00:20:10] that I can’t do. Like if I. It might take me years, it might take my whole [00:20:15] life. But if I put my mind to it, like I’ll do it. And [00:20:20] so I think it’s just, it’s self-assurance, it’s belief.

Payman Langroudi: Um, it’s interesting, [00:20:25] you know, like some people thrive in like, institutional setup? [00:20:30]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I noticed that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Some people love school and uni love rules. You know, [00:20:35] like they like hard lines. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, almost it [00:20:40] breaks their heart when someone breaks one of those rules and, you know, they almost feel like, well, how come [00:20:45] I’m following the rule and this person isn’t? For the sake of the argument and other people thrive in [00:20:50] the opposite situation where, you know, like you say you can in your life and business, [00:20:55] you can make massive leaps if you make the right moves. Whereas in school, you can’t, [00:21:00] you can’t. You’re stuck in that system and people thrive in that. You [00:21:05] know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s actually so interesting because that’s what I picked up on like at school. I was so [00:21:10] underestimated.

Payman Langroudi: So are you the type of person if someone says, I don’t believe [00:21:15] you can do that, that drives you to.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I just find it funny when people say things like [00:21:20] that because I’m like, how do you know what I can do?

Payman Langroudi: No, but I used to live with a guy and he was a medic. [00:21:25] Yeah. And we were getting to the end of our course, and this guy was scraping through, continuously scraping through, [00:21:30] almost getting kicked out. And then we got to the end and he said, yeah, I want to be a surgeon. And I went, [00:21:35] come on, man.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know, why don’t you just become a GP? Yeah, because, you know, and he went [00:21:40] on to become one of the world’s top surgeons in his area. Wow. And I had dinner with him and he said, [00:21:45] you know that thing you told me? That’s what made me do because you underestimated me. And [00:21:50] so I was like.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I love.

Payman Langroudi: That.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. I mean, I think there’s a bit of that. [00:21:55]

Payman Langroudi: It’s like a red rag to a bull, you know, like.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. But I think honestly, I think, um, sometimes you’re [00:22:00] underestimated.

Payman Langroudi: Underestimated your parents.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, I.

Payman Langroudi: Would.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Say, I’d [00:22:05] just say everybody, like I would say everyone probably in my early life underestimated.

Payman Langroudi: Why? Because [00:22:10] you were like, uh.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Quiet, quiet. I was very quiet.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t come across quiet.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m [00:22:15] not anymore. Yeah, but this is the thing. I think you have, like.

Payman Langroudi: That reinvention piece in Liverpool. [00:22:20]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, well, I think I’ve reinvented myself so many times, but now I’m like, I [00:22:25] think after a while you’re sort of like, who actually am I? And then you remember who you are, who you are deep [00:22:30] down and stuff. So a lot of it is like, for me, I honestly don’t care if people [00:22:35] think I can do something or not. I’m very stoic about things now. I’m like, if I need [00:22:40] you to believe in me, I will put some energy into that, [00:22:45] right? But if I don’t, then you can do what you want. I’ll do what I want. We’ll move [00:22:50] in our own circles. So I just have this thing where I’m like, I conserve my energy for what’s important. [00:22:55] And in terms of like, there’s a lot of self-belief, [00:23:00] but there’s a lot of feeling like I need to do things because, um, [00:23:05] it’s weird. Sometimes I feel like you’re guided by something like I definitely feel guided, [00:23:10] like I feel guided by, I don’t know whether it’s a higher power or um. [00:23:15]

Payman Langroudi: But you said you don’t believe in.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m not religious, but I believe in God. Yeah. I do believe [00:23:20] in God. I mean, I don’t believe in like God in the same sense that like necessarily how [00:23:25] other people talk about God. But I do believe in like a higher power. Um, I believe we’re all connected. [00:23:30] I’ve always believed that, um, pray, I pray at [00:23:35] night time, but my prayer is more like, um, so I do a lot of, um, uh, [00:23:40] gratitude and, uh, I just pray for just people to be well, [00:23:45] um, and yeah, and just, yeah, just be, I just be grateful for a moment [00:23:50] and I just like thank, um, like I usually just thank the universe, but that’s for me, that’s the [00:23:55] higher power that I’m thanking. Um, but yeah, I think, I think the key thing is, [00:24:00] I do believe we’re all connected. So that’s a huge, um, part of how I live my [00:24:05] life. Like I don’t do things to hurt people because I’m like.

Payman Langroudi: Like in a karmic way like that. [00:24:10]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think that we’re all kind [00:24:15] of the same person walking different lives. We’re all connected. You just need to want well [00:24:20] for everyone. So, you know, when it comes to like, if I need people [00:24:25] to believe in me, it’s got to be like, you know, if I need do [00:24:30] you know what I mean? Like it’s got to be stoic. So I want well, for other people, if they don’t believe in me, I’m not going to be upset about [00:24:35] it. But yeah, it does drive me sometimes because I’m like, but also [00:24:40] not really anymore because I know where I’m going. I know what I’m doing. I know why I’m doing [00:24:45] it. If someone doesn’t believe in it, then I don’t care. How old are you? I’m 35.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:24:50] you look a bit younger. Do I? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: How old did you think I was? That’s [00:24:55] compliment. I like being.

Payman Langroudi: Told. I wasn’t saying that for a compliment. Just like. No, but. But there is something [00:25:00] I don’t know. Do you think women take longer to get to this point that [00:25:05] you’re at, or sort of knowing yourself?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, I don’t think that actually. [00:25:10] I think the opposite.

Payman Langroudi: I come across 1 or 2 women who say that, right? They say, oh, you know, for a [00:25:15] woman, knowing yourself takes longer. And, you know, in uni, I didn’t think that [00:25:20] I come across, you know, 18 who know themselves quite well.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. I [00:25:25] think do you know what’s really interesting? I think I really got to know myself after I, um, [00:25:30] got pregnant and that’s really strange. But when I got pregnant, I felt so spiritual [00:25:35] and it was like, it was very, it [00:25:40] was really, really like spiritual amazing time for me. Um, [00:25:45] and then after when I, you know, had my little girl, I think now I just feel so connected [00:25:50] to her. Like I almost think we’re telepathic sometimes. Like it’s just so strange. [00:25:55] Like, I’ll have a thought and she’ll have a thought. We’ll wake up at the same time and think loads of weird [00:26:00] things. And she’s three and a half.

Payman Langroudi: Is you any kid?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, she’s my only child. Yeah. [00:26:05] God, I don’t think I can handle going through it all again, but no, I think, I think, [00:26:10] um.

Payman Langroudi: How do you feel around the subject of, like, wanting it all.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: About what?

Payman Langroudi: Wanting it [00:26:15] all.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: What do you mean, wanting it all?

Payman Langroudi: You know, like you want a child, you want a husband, you want [00:26:20] a business, you want a.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I want it all. I do want it all. Yeah, yeah, I want it all. And I don’t think that’s a problem. [00:26:25]

Payman Langroudi: I think. Do you think like, something’s going to give? Like something has to give? In this situation. [00:26:30] So. So then what gives? Right? So yeah, so so let me tell you what I think. Like [00:26:35] your relationship with your child is not going to give.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, I know.

Payman Langroudi: You’re not going to let your business give [00:26:40] because the moment you let your business give. That it goes away all together. Yeah. And it tends [00:26:45] to be either your own health and happiness. That gives or [00:26:50] your relationship sometimes being the. I find the second kid does that more. [00:26:55] Than the.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: First probably. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But but you know that notion that we’re sold that I can have it all. I [00:27:00] found it’s a little bit toxic, a little bit toxic in that in that, you know, what is all. [00:27:05] Uh, the next person could say all is 100 practices. Yeah, yeah. So can [00:27:10] you have 100 practices and a Start-Up and a woman and a child and a had, um, [00:27:15] Anushka from the mirror.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, yeah. Cool.

Payman Langroudi: Three children, 600 employees, 43 [00:27:20] practices.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: She’s done well. She’s done amazing. I remember applying for a job with one of her [00:27:25] practices in like 2015, 2016, and I think they had half the number they have now. [00:27:30]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: She’s amazing. Yeah. She sounds brilliant.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, I think of Linda Greenwall [00:27:35] for children. She’s written books. She travels all over the world. Lecturing has her own [00:27:40] massive practice at the same time. But something my point is, wanting [00:27:45] it all will lead to disappointment. Yeah, and it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. It’s fine. Yeah, [00:27:50] but the notion of something’s going to give. And then don’t let that break your heart.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:27:55] Look, I agree with you. I know when I started this journey, [00:28:00] especially with the business that something was always going to have to give. [00:28:05] And founders will say it all the time. No, you’re hard. [00:28:10] Like know what you’re willing to give up. And I know what I’m willing to give up there is [00:28:15] like I’ve said, I’ve, you know, said it very clearly. [00:28:20] Even when like I do set my intention for the day, I know exactly what [00:28:25] I’m focussed on and what will suffer. And for me, it’s not a choice. [00:28:30] It’s just what I have to do to make this business go. And it just means I don’t have [00:28:35] like, you know, there’s loads of people that have an amazing social life. They’re out all the time partying, having fun. [00:28:40] I just know I can’t do that. Like with what I’m trying to achieve at this point, like I can’t [00:28:45] go out and have fun. I can’t go drinking whenever I want. I can’t, [00:28:50] you know, do all these things. I have to be really focussed. I have to [00:28:55] be, you know, like, and with my daughter, it’s hard. Like I did find there was a period where I [00:29:00] wasn’t spending as much time as her with her as I should, but what I did was I changed that [00:29:05] narrative to the time I spend with her is ring fenced. It’s precious. [00:29:10] We spend really rich time together and, um. Yeah. [00:29:15] And, uh, and that’s funny. No, we don’t have a nanny. We have. No, [00:29:20] no, we don’t have a nanny. It’s just we just manage like, it’s really hard, but [00:29:25] we have like. Yeah, to be fair, I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: How you wouldn’t [00:29:30] do dentistry without a nurse.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Doing a child and a business without a nanny.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:29:35] You’re right.

Payman Langroudi: It’s hard.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: You’re right. To be honest, in Belfast, it’s not that easy to locate nannies. [00:29:40] Um, you can get. Yeah. It’s not part of the culture. You can get [00:29:45] babysitters. So we have babysitters. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, we work really hard. Even [00:29:50] me and my husband work really hard and it isn’t easy. Um, and yeah, so that, that [00:29:55] we know that things.

Payman Langroudi: But this thing you’re saying about quality time. Yeah. Rich time nanny [00:30:00] really is perfect for that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. That’s good. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: Like, I don’t know, it’s [00:30:05] a bit like, do you have a cleaner? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, like in the time that the cleaner is ironing, [00:30:10] you could be having quality time with your child. Yeah, yeah, it’s a similar kind [00:30:15] of thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right. As this business takes off and you’re nowhere, right? 23 is [00:30:20] nothing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You might have to be in Europe [00:30:25] once a month. You might. You know, it might be.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I know. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: My top customer [00:30:30] was in Amsterdam for, for years. You know, like it was, you know, that was where he was. Um, [00:30:35] it’s just, it’s just, you know, especially if you have a second.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:30:40]

Payman Langroudi: Are you saying you’ve ruled that out?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Haven’t ruled it out? I don’t know how we’ll do it, but [00:30:45] you’re right. Maybe that’s it. A nanny?

[BOTH]: Yeah. Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: There you go. I’ll take that on board.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s [00:30:50] go on to. Okay. You. You qualified?

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You started working in different [00:30:55] dental practices and these 16 practices you worked at.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s go on to that piece. [00:31:00] What were the what were the lessons you learned, good and bad?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, [00:31:05] the main one, I would say, and they say this a lot, but as [00:31:10] an associate, I think a lot of associates don’t pick up on this, that your reception [00:31:15] team is a huge part of why you might be getting [00:31:20] complaints. So your reception team can be really upsetting [00:31:25] and annoying patients without you knowing. Um, and what it tends to do [00:31:30] is kind of upset the patients, but not enough that they’d complain. But then as soon [00:31:35] as something else goes wrong, they’ll complain. Then they’ll write a letter. And what was [00:31:40] frustrating for me is when you receive those letters where like most of it, [00:31:45] is about how the practice is run or like their dealings with the reception [00:31:50] team, and then like maybe two lines on something that happened clinically. [00:31:55] And then as an associate, you’re given that complaint to handle and you’re sort [00:32:00] of thinking, yeah, but is this really is this really towards me? Um, [00:32:05] so I picked up on that a lot. Um, I think reception teams are essential. [00:32:10]

[BOTH]: They’re like, do you think it.

Payman Langroudi: Emanates from the top though?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Like, yeah, I do. Absolutely. I think [00:32:15] the culture comes from the very top. I worked at some practices where the [00:32:20] owner was, uh, amazing. I mean, he was like on [00:32:25] site every week with the practice managers getting [00:32:30] an outline of how people were performing. And he would have reviews [00:32:35] with each dentist. He would have like performance reviews. Um, he [00:32:40] had internal courses. And I think I learned a lot from observing [00:32:45] that because, you know, most practices don’t do that. They don’t speak to their associates like [00:32:50] the owners will not, you know, especially if it’s corporate won’t really speak to their associates. Um, [00:32:55] so I think embedding a structure and a culture in [00:33:00] your practice is really important, but it’s a tricky one because associates [00:33:05] are self-employed. They don’t like to be over scrutinised. Um. I don’t think [00:33:10] there’s like a perfect answer, but what I have um, found and this was a huge part of why [00:33:15] we launched Medicube is that you’ve got to give your associates [00:33:20] the tools they need to make money. Like if you’re trying to make cuts and you’re [00:33:25] sort of like, oh, we can’t really get an optra gate or we can’t get like that [00:33:30] clamp you want or whatever it or even like a face bow like they [00:33:35] are, you know, get them a face bow, for God’s sakes. Like if they’re asking you, they’ve done a course, they want [00:33:40] to get it for them because they’re going to generate, you know, ten X that in revenue or whatever, [00:33:45] just do it. But I see a lot of, um, practices trying to make cuts. If [00:33:50] you’re not going to give your associates the tools to make money, they’re not going to make money.

Payman Langroudi: So true, man. [00:33:55] I don’t know, maybe it’s the one moving part they can affect. [00:34:00]

[BOTH]: I mean, yeah, but.

Payman Langroudi: The total cost to the practice of all the materials [00:34:05] they buy, if it’s a crazy spender, is, [00:34:10] I don’t know, 8%. And if it’s a totally tight guy, [00:34:15] it’s like 6%.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s not going to make a big difference to the final. [00:34:20] Yeah. But you’re right about the associate. If there’s a material or a technique [00:34:25] that is the right one, and then you can hand on heart, tell your patient, I can do [00:34:30] this. The tonality in your voice is going to make that treatment go through. You’re going [00:34:35] to do it right. You’re not going to get an unhappy patient at the end of it. Like all these little things. Yeah, but [00:34:40] but somehow it’s like people are more focussed on the cost of things than on the profit [00:34:45] that they can generate.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: And they’ve got it so wrong. And you know what’s really frustrating [00:34:50] when you’re dealing with a, um, you know, a [00:34:55] head nurse or something and you have to go through the head nurse to get this piece of equipment, [00:35:00] but it makes no sense.

Payman Langroudi: It’s in the corporate setting.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, I’ve seen that a lot, not [00:35:05] just in corporate settings. I think they, they, you know, often be done to, [00:35:10] you know, ask that person and then that person has a budget and, you know, and it’s [00:35:15] kind of like, okay, but it’s going to take me an hour longer to, [00:35:20] you know, and at my hourly rate. Is that really going to make sense? What if we [00:35:25] order this tool, we have it and you know, everyone’s happy. Patients are happy, [00:35:30] you know? So I think that I think there is maybe there’s just actually [00:35:35] a bit of a problem with how dentistry is structured. And like, I really [00:35:40] enjoy like thought experiments and like disruption. I really, really like love things [00:35:45] like that. I do think like the whole head nurse thing, [00:35:50] like, does it work? Like, does it really work? You know, head nurse ordering stock, [00:35:55] um, and things like that. I don’t know if there needs to be like another. [00:36:00]

[BOTH]: Um, what you often.

Payman Langroudi: See the opposite problem, where they haven’t [00:36:05] assigned any one head nurse and someone like the owner himself is, is doing the work [00:36:10] that the owner shouldn’t be doing, you know? So you see that side as well?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. And then you [00:36:15] see the other thing where sometimes the practice manager does everything and they’re non-clinical and they don’t [00:36:20] understand. And so I don’t.

[BOTH]: Know, you’re.

Payman Langroudi: A hooper now.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m at Bupa now.

[BOTH]: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And have you been [00:36:25] at other corporates as well.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’ve been at a lot of corporates.

[BOTH]: I’ve probably.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Been at five [00:36:30] different.

[BOTH]: Corporates.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: About five corporates. And then independence. So I [00:36:35] worked at Smart Dental for a bit. I worked at Obex. [00:36:40]

[BOTH]: Oh were you? I worked at.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Inspire. I think [00:36:45] it’s called inspire. Um, um, I honestly, [00:36:50] I need to, I need to look at my CV. No, I nearly took a job with my dentist. [00:36:55] I didn’t take one in the end with them. They use R4. I’m not really keen on R4.

Payman Langroudi: Any [00:37:00] war.

[BOTH]: But they don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about now.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, so Bupa is good. [00:37:05] Bupa is good. I like the way they run. Um, but no, I don’t [00:37:10] have a lot of opinions really on the way. And also I find with Bupa as well, like I [00:37:15] know I’ve spoken to management a few times like the higher tier management. Um, [00:37:20] and they’re not that open to receiving feedback either, [00:37:25] which I find really interesting. Um, so I think generally in the Dental world, you do find like [00:37:30] they don’t, people just sort of don’t want to know if you’ve got feedback for them. [00:37:35]

Payman Langroudi: I don’t think generally you can, you can, you can generalise about that. Yeah. Because there are lots of very [00:37:40] innovative dentists out there with the corporate you have to understand, right. 8000 [00:37:45] people under Mark Allen, you know.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: 8000.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:37:50] With over 100 number of sites they’ve got.

[BOTH]: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Um I mean [00:37:55] I get it as well, insomuch as even if he wants to do X, Y, and Z. Not possible. [00:38:00] That’s a tanker.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I find quite interesting in that they they sort of high [00:38:05] on their own supply of, of that question of we’re a non-profit, which is cool [00:38:10] in a way. Yeah. It’s nice. It’s a nice thing, you know, that profit isn’t the absolute [00:38:15] centre of everything.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And yet in the end, profit is. Right. [00:38:20]

[BOTH]: So yeah, you’ve got to.

Payman Langroudi: Someone’s got to be responsible for budgets.

[BOTH]: And.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:38:25] all of that. But it’s just nice to hear them talk the way they were.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s very [00:38:30] idealistic.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, but you know, I’ve looked at I looked at buying a dental practice [00:38:35] a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. So I really explored what I was going to do for a long time before I decided [00:38:40] I was going to do this. Um, and I looked at the [00:38:45] margins of dental practices and I can see how they are very tight at [00:38:50] like it is hard for dental owners. I wouldn’t, I don’t envy all of their positions [00:38:55] too, To because at the same time, like I’m talking as an associate, and if I was [00:39:00] in that situation.

[BOTH]: Very.

Payman Langroudi: Different.

[BOTH]: Very.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Different, I would fully understand. Like their margins are tight. You [00:39:05] know, you’ve got a lot of moving parts. You’re keeping a lot of people happy.

[BOTH]: People short staffed, [00:39:10] all of this.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got a friend. He’s, uh, doing a nuclear power station. [00:39:15]

[BOTH]: Oh, cool.

Payman Langroudi: Sounds like a crazy notion, right?

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I was asking him, you know, like, [00:39:20] like, where do you even start? Like a nuclear power station, you know? And [00:39:25] he said, you know, there’s not that many humans involved. Yeah. And, and, and it’s humans [00:39:30] that are the problem.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Humans are the problem.

[BOTH]: I think.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s so terrible to say.

[BOTH]: But, but.

Payman Langroudi: In dentistry, right? It’s, [00:39:35] it’s only humans, right? It’s patients, it’s staff, you know, it’s all about humans. [00:39:40]

[BOTH]: And so it’s such an unknown.

Payman Langroudi: Um, thing. And I [00:39:45] was in a restaurant last night. Yeah. And you realise even in a restaurant, you realise it’s only humans. It’s [00:39:50] not about food. You know, the food is a very simple process that they’ve, they’ve got down to a t.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: They [00:39:55] know how to make their food. But, you know, there was a rowdy table on one side. [00:40:00] There were people walking in saying they had a reservation even though there wasn’t a table available [00:40:05] for them. Like just stuff like that.

[BOTH]: Yeah, I’m watching.

Payman Langroudi: Watching the staff, you know, because you do when you, [00:40:10] when you when you’ve been in business for a while.

[BOTH]: You start watching how.

Payman Langroudi: Is the business operating?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’ve noticed [00:40:15] that.

[BOTH]: About.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: When I go to dinner with other business people and they’re like, I was left waiting at the door [00:40:20] for ten minutes and can’t do that in Mayfair.

[BOTH]: Yeah. And I remember.

Payman Langroudi: Going to [00:40:25] a private practice in the city, um, from Kent. I [00:40:30] was in Kent in a private practice and I thought to myself, I’m killing in Kent. [00:40:35] I really was, I was having a great, I was doing these veneers.

[BOTH]: Amazing. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And then, and then I thought, if I go [00:40:40] to the city, imagine I’m going to destroy. I’m going to be amazing.

[BOTH]: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I got to the city and totally [00:40:45] different patients. Yeah. Number one and a nightmare to to sell anything to them because they’re [00:40:50] all salesmen themselves, right? Um, but number two, if you kept them waiting. Five [00:40:55] minutes. Five minutes. Yeah. I had a massive complaint because I was five minutes late for [00:41:00] someone. And by the way, he didn’t even wait. He left. He left. His [00:41:05] appointment was, you know, 130, whatever it was. At 135, he was out. Yeah. He left and made a [00:41:10] massive complaint, you know, and it’s like such a nightmare. It’s like humans, right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [00:41:15]

Payman Langroudi: Um, give me your private practice.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Experience.

Payman Langroudi: Experience. [00:41:20] But also, you know, there’s a bunch of people who in the health service were in mixed [00:41:25] and they’re looking to go private.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What are your sort of takeaways from [00:41:30] surviving and, and excelling in private compared to NHS?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: This [00:41:35] is so it’s do you know what I would say. Payman like I thought [00:41:40] I worked NHS and I work private and I always thought it was greener on [00:41:45] the other side, you know, like, oh, it’s better if you work private. Oh it’s better if you work NHS because you get all [00:41:50] these updates, you know what you’re getting and vice versa with private. But I don’t think [00:41:55] there’s one easy answer. I think with NHS, you’re [00:42:00] just. The key element is you’re switching tasks regularly. So [00:42:05] that’s very hard on your, uh, brainpower basically like a lot. There’s a lot [00:42:10] of people that don’t do well with task switching and especially your nurse is [00:42:15] probably going to ask you, oh, what were you doing for the next one? What am I setting up? Do you want to make tricks? Do you want this? And [00:42:20] that’s quite hard, right? But whereas when you’re seeing when you’re doing private, you’re only seeing maybe like [00:42:25] ten, 12 patients, but you’re having a lot more discussions, you’re having to document [00:42:30] more. Um, it’s just, it’s just different. I mean, personally for me, [00:42:35] I am somebody that doesn’t like task switching. So for that reason, I prefer [00:42:40] private, I enjoy private, I enjoy doing big cases. I do a lot of full mouth [00:42:45] rehab cases. Yeah, yeah, I do. And I love them. I absolutely love them. They’re my favourite thing. [00:42:50]

Payman Langroudi: Did you learn those? Chris Hall, Chris or.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I also did the Dawson Academy course. They were fantastic. [00:42:55] Yes. Yeah. Before he, uh, closed. I was so lucky to get in before he closed. [00:43:00] He was amazing. And. But I go to. I will go to America sometimes [00:43:05] for conferences, you know, like the New York Dental conference, the Chicago Dental conference. I’m going to [00:43:10] do that more and more now. Um, because I love American dentistry. I think it’s [00:43:15] amazing. Like I love.

Payman Langroudi: I love their optimism around [00:43:20] it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I just love Americans and the way they are. Like, they just, [00:43:25] I don’t know, they’re just so funny. Like there’s, they’re just so optimistic about everything. Yeah. [00:43:30] Um, but yeah, I think, you know, going back to what you said about like, what’s [00:43:35] better, I think private practice, you are seeing less patients. [00:43:40] It’s usually more methodical. It’s less stressful in that [00:43:45] sense. The patients tend to be like paying, you know, some form [00:43:50] of insurance now. So I don’t know, we get that a lot on Bupa where they’re like, you know, sometimes you get dem [00:43:55] plan patients or you get people on.

Payman Langroudi: Have you been benefiting from this Bupa thing where they’re sending you patients with £300? [00:44:00] Uh, what.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Do you.

Payman Langroudi: Mean? Well, if you’ve got Bupa health insurance, maybe it’s not the same. If [00:44:05] you’ve got Bupa health insurance, Bupa is now saying you can turn up at Bupa dentist with [00:44:10] £300 credit and spend.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh no, they’re not doing that where I am. No no no I [00:44:15] haven’t seen that. No no. Do dentists like that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Oh okay. Suddenly books are full of people [00:44:20] who’ve got £300 to spend.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Good. Yeah, that is good.

Payman Langroudi: Obviously from the Bupa perspective they spend £301 [00:44:25] before anything, before they get any credit, keeping their dentists happy, [00:44:30] you know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s true. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I’m sure other people are a bit pissed off about it. But but but then, you know, if Bupa [00:44:35] doesn’t leverage this sort of thing, what’s the point of having a Bupa, you know?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. So is it coming off of Bupa kind [00:44:40] of revenue.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Yeah. They’re they’re giving each medical [00:44:45] I suppose. Look their main business is medical insurance, so keeping those people happy is their main business. [00:44:50] Keeping their dentists happy is their second business. You know, when you own a corporate, the way [00:44:55] to think about it is your customer is the dentist.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: You know, because.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That is [00:45:00] true.

Payman Langroudi: Dentists turnover is the most expensive thing that can happen.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, God. You’re absolutely right. I [00:45:05] mean, they pay like a lot of money for these sorts.

Payman Langroudi: Of things.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Right? Yeah. [00:45:10] No. It’s crazy.

Payman Langroudi: Um, let’s get on to consent. Medicube. [00:45:15] Why did you go in this direction? So we’ve got the basic idea [00:45:20] of why you were having sort of these existential thoughts. Because I don’t know, man, if [00:45:25] I, if I didn’t know that you started this business, I’d say, here’s a real super happy dentist. [00:45:30] Oh, you’re doing high end stuff.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’ll tell you what it is.

Payman Langroudi: Practice. You know, like things [00:45:35] are good.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, I’ll tell you what it is. So the question you asked me about why NHS, why private. That’s [00:45:40] that’s very relevant. Because what I realised was I realised very early on, like I did a bit [00:45:45] of everything and nothing. Um. Firstly, nothing was keeping me happy, but [00:45:50] also if a complaint happened, it was so detrimental to my [00:45:55] health and wellbeing I would be so stressed about it. I’d be up like, you [00:46:00] know, probably for two months. I’d be like really ruminating over it.

Payman Langroudi: Listen, I gave [00:46:05] up dentistry 13 years ago. Yeah, one letter still bothers me. Nothing. [00:46:10]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Nothing came of it. It’s a real thing, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: But it was the sentiment in the letter.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But [00:46:15] the interesting thing is that’s not that’s not actually understood outside of dental [00:46:20] circles. So the pressure and how much it impacts you. And in [00:46:25] addition, because I worked at so many practices, seeing how other people’s behaviour [00:46:30] can actually like pass a liability on to me. It made [00:46:35] me think, I can’t do this job because I can’t actually control anything. Like [00:46:40] it’s too unpredictable. There’s no system. I start from scratch every [00:46:45] day, pretty much everywhere I go. Then I’m given a random new nurse, or there’s a new person [00:46:50] or reception who doesn’t know how I work. I was like, I can’t do this. This is impossible. [00:46:55] And I thought, even private practice doesn’t really mitigate that stuff. So then realistically, [00:47:00] it was like, well, what’s going to fix this? And that was exactly why Medicube [00:47:05] was born. Um, because now like my interaction with [00:47:10] the patient, okay, we have an interaction in the surgery, but within seconds, [00:47:15] like I’ll say them, I’ll say to them, by the end of the day, you’ll receive a personalised information pack about you, [00:47:20] about what we discussed. Um, if you’re happy to go ahead, next steps, get yourself booked into, [00:47:25] um, you know, your digital smile design appointment will start planning.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, [00:47:30] you know, I’ll lay out that foundation, they’ll go home, I’ll send them the information pack. [00:47:35] Everything they need to know is on there. They’ll sign it, they come in. I ask, have you got [00:47:40] any questions? And they’re generally happy. And it’s just super easy. Like, I don’t even need [00:47:45] a treatment coordinator. I don’t need anything. Like I literally [00:47:50] can just make, I can secure high ticket sales by myself without [00:47:55] having to ask a receptionist, can you send this for me? Or having to ask anybody [00:48:00] else, can you do this for me? So it actually creates a little bit of consistency for me. It creates my own [00:48:05] workflow. Like I have my own images that I embed in there. I tell them all the risks that I want to [00:48:10] tell them. Like in addition to, you know, your standard risks, um, it’s something [00:48:15] I can control and I can control it. So, you [00:48:20] know, so to such a high degree that it just gives me that absolute peace of [00:48:25] mind, but not only me.

Payman Langroudi: But where are we at with the product? I mean, is it way past minimum viable [00:48:30] product?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Like, yeah, it’s live, it’s live.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a live working.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s live in Dental practices. [00:48:35] Um, it’s, uh, not many. We’ve got a closed, um, group of [00:48:40] pilot users.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and so talk me through it. So why is, why is it so easy to [00:48:45] produce this document?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, so we have, we basically, so we’ve, we’ve piloted this [00:48:50] for two and a half years. We’ve been talking to users. We’ve had like over 130 dentists use it [00:48:55] and tell us what, what they. Um, so.

Payman Langroudi: What were the insights?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So the insights were huge. Like we [00:49:00] found out things like people want extra signature functionality, which [00:49:05] we built in. Um, some like implant dentists want to be able to send videos. [00:49:10] So we looked at that. So we came up with a solution with that. Um, we, [00:49:15] you know, found that for a lot of dentists, like they can’t explain things like what onlays [00:49:20] are and they’re using like Google search to like, find images and then show it to patients. [00:49:25] So we came up for a solution for that.

Payman Langroudi: So now video library of.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. So now we basically [00:49:30] have a product where we have like we’ve built AI into it as well. So we’ve got like an AI letter [00:49:35] generator. So in seconds you can generate a letter based on like appointment [00:49:40] information, for example.

Payman Langroudi: Based on the notes.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So usually based [00:49:45] on the notes, that’s like the easiest way to do it. Um, and you can have a, um, [00:49:50] just a friendly letter. You can embed your consent forms, you can add different [00:49:55] signature functionality. You can, um, add like Google search images [00:50:00] that are unlicensed and things like that. Uh, you can add videos. It’s [00:50:05] super easy. And the associate in seconds can compile that, send it to a patient because it has an integration. [00:50:10] So that’s it. Like it doesn’t take you any time at all. You [00:50:15] can do it for ten, 12, 15 patients that day if you wanted. [00:50:20] Um, it’s just a completely different way of working. And those patients [00:50:25] feel so cared.

Payman Langroudi: For, plugged into all the different softwares. The patient.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s a web application, so [00:50:30] you just log in. Um.

Payman Langroudi: But how do you get into your care [00:50:35] stack or your.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So, so we have an integration with Dental at the moment. So [00:50:40] Dental users are the other key focus at the moment. But we are going to build a [00:50:45] Non-integrated version that’s standalone. Um so other users [00:50:50] can enjoy the benefits as well.

Payman Langroudi: So for now you’re only focussed on Dental.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: For now we’re just focussed [00:50:55] on Dental. Yeah. Um, but we’ve done like two and a half year pilots and in that time we found that [00:51:00] complaints firstly, like very few complaints happen. When they do [00:51:05] happen they de escalate so quickly because you’re covered. Well no, not because you’re covered [00:51:10] because you just say to the patient, by the way, do you remember that information pack I sent you? Can you look over it again? They’ll, [00:51:15] you know, you can resend it to them because you still have access to everything. We don’t delete [00:51:20] anything. And patients literally have chosen [00:51:25] to de escalate complaints. They’ve literally said, okay, fair enough. And [00:51:30] they’ve just not taken it any further. We’ve had no refunds. We’ve actually had like half £1 [00:51:35] million worth of private work go through our process. No refunds, no [00:51:40] complaints, no escalations. So it really speaks for itself. We’ve done [00:51:45] very long pilots, and there’s very few products that can [00:51:50] say what we can say, like, you know, patients actually love it. [00:51:55] And we also give patients a survey at the end and like the of [00:52:00] the patients that fill in the survey, like 96% of them are glad that they were sent that additional information. [00:52:05] Um, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got 40% of patients [00:52:10] saying they trust their dentist. More, 60% are saying they’re more relaxed going into their next appointment. So [00:52:15] we’ve got like really key data points.

Payman Langroudi: So just, just, just walk me through it like a [00:52:20] child a little bit. Yeah. So you’re giving them this document, which is part treatment plan, part [00:52:25] consent, and you’re just saying it’s easier [00:52:30] to produce this document really quickly and really and dotting all the I’s [00:52:35] and crossing all the T’s. Yeah. So. But but how? So I’m going to treatment plan a [00:52:40] whitening composite bonding. Yeah, I don’t know. Green. Amber, red. Yeah. In the, in the [00:52:45] in the long run. Full mouth rehab.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So we, we do an integration with Dental. So you’re doing your [00:52:50] dental visit.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve put that in the notes.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: We have an integration handles that. Yeah. So you. [00:52:55]

Payman Langroudi: And what does it do? It says whitening. These are the risks. These are the benefits.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So you basically set up your [00:53:00] own templates on our site, on our platform. And we’ve done like a really [00:53:05] nice, um, onboarding, um, with semi semi-automated, [00:53:10] the onboarding. So you can set yourself up with your templates really quickly. Uh, once you’ve got your templates [00:53:15] set up. Yeah, it will pull all the right treatment data, um, from that. [00:53:20] So basically, if you’ve got a treatment plan with whitening, um, veneers and your templates, [00:53:25] uh, look a certain way, it will pull them together. You can add an AI generated [00:53:30] letter. We’ve got a little, um, library, you can select, uh, images [00:53:35] and then you click next. There’s a video section, you can skip it or you can add videos from our stock [00:53:40] library or embed them from third party videos. [00:53:45] Uh, yes, we did. Yeah, yeah, we made them with videographers and then we got dentists to check them and things. [00:53:50] So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So I mean, I expect you can reverse engineer it to some extent. I [00:53:55] know, you know, obviously the whole point of this is to save time and make it, yeah, a clean process. [00:54:00] But I could copy and paste my identity notes into Gemini and tell it to write a [00:54:05] letter and, you know, do it myself.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, you can, you can, but then you’re [00:54:10] still having to, uh, paste that all into. Okay, so there’s a few things [00:54:15] here. So you’re having to paste that into your, uh, interdentally send it to the patient. [00:54:20] You also get no, so you get no information about whether the patient’s opened it. [00:54:25] You get no information about how even how many times you’ve sent that email, um, [00:54:30] how the patient has interacted with it. We log all of that in a report that you’ll [00:54:35] be able to see.

Payman Langroudi: So it’s a receipt from the email.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Uh, well, no. So the [00:54:40] there’s like summaries. So you can like go into that patient’s summary and see what’s happened. So.

Payman Langroudi: But how do [00:54:45] you know he’s opened it? It says it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: In the patient summary. Yeah yeah yeah. So we’ve got like [00:54:50] so patient summary can go in there. You can see you can just refresh your memory. What did I send them? What [00:54:55] videos did I send them? How much of it is watched? Like we actually log how [00:55:00] much as well is watched? Um, so you get like a lot of intelligent insights. [00:55:05] And we’ve had cases where some of our users have said to us, [00:55:10] some of our dentists have said to us, oh, patient, a patient said they didn’t receive the email and [00:55:15] then they’ve logged, they’ve logged in, looked at the summary and it said, patient’s logged in [00:55:20] and it gives you a time. So like, it’s just so funny because it [00:55:25] helps a lot. Like you do have some patients say, oh, I didn’t, You know, I’ve [00:55:30] had loads of cases where patients say, oh, you quote me a crown. It was a different price. And I’m like, no, [00:55:35] log in, have a look. You’ll see it. Um, it’s so easy and it’s really [00:55:40] easy for patients to log in and verify. Um, I can’t [00:55:45] go into too much detail about that, but we’ve like, you know, we have, our [00:55:50] team is really strong by the way.

Payman Langroudi: So let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that. So you decide to do this company. [00:55:55] Where did you find your co-founder? Did you go to an accelerator? You did, didn’t you accelerate her. [00:56:00] What was that I saw?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. So basically in 2019, um, [00:56:05] I decided I was either going to buy a dental practice [00:56:10] and create my own corporate with a few other people, or I was going to like not [00:56:15] do dentistry at all and go into tech. Tech had really, um, interested me because [00:56:20] I had, I was listening to a lot of podcasts about tech. I was obsessed actually [00:56:25] from 2017. I was obsessed with tech and listening [00:56:30] to things about AI and how AI was going to change the world. I mean, they knew there were going to be job losses, [00:56:35] like they suspected in 2018, that there would be 40% of people [00:56:40] jobless because of AI. That was back then. And so anyway, I used to go to a lot [00:56:45] of tech events. Um, and I went to one. It [00:56:50] must have been completely, um, a stroke of luck from the universe [00:56:55] genuinely, because this event was put on Eventbrite, right? It was [00:57:00] actually for UCL students and it shouldn’t have been on Eventbrite, but I saw it. It was a hackathon [00:57:05] at UCL. I was like, it was sponsored by Microsoft.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I was like, I am going. Absolutely. [00:57:10] It was on my day off. I went, um, and the, the lecturers [00:57:15] there were like, oh, we’re so sorry. This is actually just only for students, but you can stay if you like. [00:57:20] So I did, um, and I kind of watched what the students were doing and what they were building [00:57:25] and it was so interesting. And they’re so brilliant, those students. And, um, my [00:57:30] co-founder was doing his PhD at the time. And so I started speaking [00:57:35] to all the PhD students and we just, we just like really got on and we kept [00:57:40] in contact. And then I think it was about six months later, he contacted me [00:57:45] and he said, like, the students need to do something healthcare related. Do you have a project [00:57:50] in mind? And that’s when I started working with the students and building prototypes with them. And [00:57:55] I started doing lots of courses on UX and UI design and learning about [00:58:00] just tech and how to manage a team and how to manage sprints and all of this. And, [00:58:05] um, then.

Payman Langroudi: Is that what you do? You do sprints?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. We do. Yeah, yeah. Basically, [00:58:10] I wouldn’t say I’m the best at it, but like, to be honest, I’ve been managing a team for like [00:58:15] five years.

Payman Langroudi: Two weeks sprints.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, we do two week sprints. Yeah. So you just basically [00:58:20] we use Trello and we just have like list our requirements. [00:58:25] And, you know, it’s actually very simple. Um, and so now [00:58:30] we’re like UCL bronze part, we’re a UCL bronze partner. So we go, we, we work with students a lot, [00:58:35] um, which is really incredible because they are so brilliant and we work with master’s [00:58:40] students now. Um, so.

Payman Langroudi: You’re basically getting that for free, huh?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Through my co-founder. [00:58:45] So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Otherwise you’d have to pay for all that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, you’d have to pay a lot of money for [00:58:50] it.

Payman Langroudi: So did you raise cash as well?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: We, um, won a few awards, so [00:58:55] we put in some applications and we won awards and they came with cash awards. So it was [00:59:00] like tech starts. So, um, so basically they’re grants and some of them were [00:59:05] awards, some of them were grants, um.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of better than an investor, right? Just cash. Yeah, [00:59:10] yeah. How much like how much can you get from something like that?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So it varies. Um, but [00:59:15] I mean, in total, we, I mean, we haven’t taken a crazy amount. We’ve, we’ve built our product [00:59:20] with about Thousand of pounds worth of money that we were awarded [00:59:25] from various different grants.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, we’re super [00:59:30] lean, we are super lean. But then also, you have to remember that like my co-founder is [00:59:35] a professor at UCL and his time is worth a lot. So he puts in all this time. [00:59:40] So it’s all the goodwill as well.

Payman Langroudi: Um, but does he own some of the company?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, [00:59:45] yeah. He’s a co-founder. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, and yeah, it just, [00:59:50] it was just so interesting, our journey and then we just started to onboard users.

Payman Langroudi: Test pilot not [00:59:55] profitable yet.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Uh, no, no, I think so.

Payman Langroudi: What’s your runway? I mean, how much longer have you [01:00:00] got.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Now that I can’t talk about that I can’t talk about.

Payman Langroudi: You must be like you’re [01:00:05] aware of that number.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, 100%. We’re fully aware.

Payman Langroudi: You have to raise money.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So [01:00:10] we are looking to raise um, and yeah, I think we’ve, [01:00:15] we’ve not wanted to, we’ve held it off. We’ve bootstrapped for pretty long actually. We’ve [01:00:20] done really well. Um, because we were like, we are revenue generating.

Payman Langroudi: That’s interesting, isn’t it? [01:00:25] Crowns and fillings are kind of paying for this company.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I was the same with an item. It was the same. It [01:00:30] was the same with the lighting. My wife’s dentistry and my partner’s denture. I gave up altogether and [01:00:35] just focussed on this for the first five years. Yeah, but my three I’ve got three partners are [01:00:40] all dentists. Yeah. And they were paying me like some ridiculously small amount of money [01:00:45] to, to, to, to do this. Right.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Amazing. Is that how it worked? Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [01:00:50] yeah. But but but I mean, it was a different time. Yeah. It was. Yeah. They weren’t things [01:00:55] like accelerators and.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve, I mean, [01:01:00] I think you’re right. So the accelerator thing we got on that um, through that NatWest [01:01:05] and you know Barclays Eagle labs do that. So we apply for a lot of things and we get a lot [01:01:10] of things to be honest like but.

Payman Langroudi: So the journey from dentist. [01:01:15] Yeah. You’re clearly talking all the language of Start-Up now.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah Sorry.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:01:20] know it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing. But the, the I’ve seen people go through [01:01:25] that process, right, of someone who comes to me. People come to me all the time with little ideas, right? [01:01:30] Try this, try that. And you can see this person is clueless. There’s no idea [01:01:35] what the hell they’re talking about. And then I’ve often my. These days, my advice is often [01:01:40] just go to an accelerator because they tend to weed. Weed out.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: And then [01:01:45] sometimes they get going on an eight week accelerator, not even a long thing, and come out the [01:01:50] other side talking a whole other language. Yeah. And, and much clearer [01:01:55] on where they want to go with a co-founder. And, you know, we’re making investment pitches left, right. [01:02:00] Yeah. And it’s a wonderful thing. It’s a wonderful. So is that what you know? Is that your education? [01:02:05] I mean, you’re saying you’re saying you you were going to tech conferences on your own back.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, yeah, [01:02:10] for me, it was very different because again, like 2019 was quite a different time. So [01:02:15] for me, I did a lot of research into tech, really understanding what I wanted to do.

Payman Langroudi: Tech. How [01:02:20] did it come about? Tech. Have you got like a brother or a sister or a friend or something?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, no, I tell you what it was, it’s funny. [01:02:25] There was one moment like there was actually one defining moment for me. And that was, um, so [01:02:30] I was, I was watching, uh, it must have been like it was [01:02:35] a documentary. It was either like horizon or something like that. But they were talking about, [01:02:40] um, how they were creating AI, GPS and that was back in [01:02:45] 2018 again. And Babylon Health was doing it and they, the GP could [01:02:50] diagnose a human just through asking a set of triage questions with 80% [01:02:55] accuracy. And a human did it to the same level of accuracy. The single issue was [01:03:00] that sometimes it missed highly risky, um, you [01:03:05] know, misdiagnosed a highly risky case. That was the only reason they couldn’t release [01:03:10] it. Now since then.

Payman Langroudi: 2018.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Now fixed that by now.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [01:03:15] And I think a lot of um, the, the way culturally people have changed, [01:03:20] like the way people think about AI. That’s happened a lot in the past 2 or 3 years. And they’ve been saying [01:03:25] that like the Turing test, Turing test was like, basically, do [01:03:30] you know what it is? Yeah I do. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Say it, but say it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. So basically where, you know, can [01:03:35] an AI pass as human? And people were saying for a long time, no, that won’t ever happen. [01:03:40] And like we’ve completely.

Payman Langroudi: Gone.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Past that and no one [01:03:45] spoke about it. And I remember hearing that on a podcast recently and thinking how funny that was.

Payman Langroudi: But I’ve talked to my team, [01:03:50] you know, people who pick up the phone and I’m trying to explain to [01:03:55] them, you know, that, you know, that’s not going to go on for much longer. And [01:04:00] sometimes they’re sceptical and they say, oh, there’s no way a machine can do better than me. And [01:04:05] then I kind of remind them that, you know, like I go on Amazon and I buy something. [01:04:10] I don’t want to talk to a human. I go on Amazon, I pick the thing, I push the button. [01:04:15] It arrives. Yeah. And the notion that everyone wants to talk to a human. I [01:04:20] kind of don’t want to talk to a human. Yeah. You know, I.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Think that’s a London thing, by the way. [01:04:25]

Payman Langroudi: But if I want to buy a flight or something, there was a time. If you wanted to buy a flight, you had to talk to a human. [01:04:30] Yeah. Now we all take it for granted. Yeah, yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, totally.

Payman Langroudi: You know, so the world [01:04:35] is going to change. Your job is not going to get taken by an AI. Your job is going to be taken by someone who knows how to use an [01:04:40] AI, right? You can who can leverage. And this thing you’re saying about 40% of jobs [01:04:45] will go. It’s highly possible.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But it really depends on the number of new jobs that are [01:04:50] made by AI.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s it. So I think that’s the. So I listened to a lot of things like Ray [01:04:55] Kurzweil and, you know, Geoffrey Hinton and all this and what they’re saying.

Payman Langroudi: About who wants to meet his dad. [01:05:00] His dead dad.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It would be amazing, but I do [01:05:05] honestly, those there. I mean, they are the most pioneering, [01:05:10] you know, AI specialists out there. And they’ll say things like, you [01:05:15] know, that it’s very like, okay, Geoffrey Hinton is saying like, things are really worrying and stuff. But [01:05:20] aside from that, in terms of the jobs they are saying, you know, realistically, [01:05:25] even 100 years ago, the jobs we had were very different. We lost all [01:05:30] of those jobs and new jobs.

Payman Langroudi: Agriculture.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Exactly. So it’s very likely there will be new [01:05:35] jobs. It’s just people have to be adaptable. That’s the key thing in [01:05:40] this world. You have to be adaptable, open minded.

Payman Langroudi: You know, what’s interesting is there are some [01:05:45] things, some services and products that this elasticity of [01:05:50] demand. So let’s say something. If something gets cheaper, [01:05:55] it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be the same number of that thing being sold. There [01:06:00] are some areas that if the thing gets cheaper, the volume goes through the roof. And so [01:06:05] those things are going to benefit massively. Yeah. So I take the example, my [01:06:10] brother radiologist eyes can read these scans. Yeah, but there’s [01:06:15] way more scans being asked for now.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Interesting. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: There’s still medicolegally. The [01:06:20] radiologist has to sign it off. So his life has actually gotten a lot better in a way because [01:06:25] they used the AI tool. A doctor has to sign it off. So he’s still getting paid for being [01:06:30] the doctor. And yet they can put a whole lot more scans through than before. And surprise, [01:06:35] surprise, the the the doctors are asking for the scans are asking for way more [01:06:40] scans. Yeah. There’s elasticity in it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. That’s great.

Payman Langroudi: So those areas, whatever [01:06:45] they are, like whatever business you’re in, if, if more of it cheaper is going [01:06:50] to get more demand. Yeah, those areas are going to be amazing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I think you’re right. Like, [01:06:55] I think we’re just pushing towards being more of an efficient civilisation really. That’s like [01:07:00] the key thing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But there’s someone’s job in enlightened to answer, uh, lab [01:07:05] problems. Yeah. Now her job, the number of lab problems [01:07:10] coming in isn’t going to increase even however good we good we get [01:07:15] at answering those questions. Yeah. The number of lab problems that come in are the number of lab problems. So [01:07:20] her job is a much more dangerous position than someone whose job they’ll increase. [01:07:25] Ai will increase the amount coming.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, absolutely. And I think also well, [01:07:30] I think they’re talking a lot about now like AGI, because if you can create [01:07:35] artificial general intelligence, then, you know, it can be used for multiple [01:07:40] tasks realistically. That’s kind of the way it will go. So you’ll still need humans [01:07:45] in the loop is what they call it, where humans are maybe specialists in [01:07:50] areas and they’re managing, you know, the AGI.

Payman Langroudi: Loads [01:07:55] of loads of robots.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. I mean, it’s like, I like my co-founder is the best [01:08:00] person to talk to about this because he’s got all these like great opinions that, you [01:08:05] know, he, because he, he’s like, he even said we had a meet up yesterday actually [01:08:10] with some dentists and he was some of them were asking him about AGI and he was saying that, [01:08:15] um, you know, he, because he’s got contacts in like that are working on Google DeepMind [01:08:20] and all of that. So his opinion is a lot more, um, configured to actually [01:08:25] what thing, what’s out there? Um, whereas I think for most of us, [01:08:30] we’re speculating on, you know, what, what we’re gauging, but we don’t [01:08:35] see the full picture. There’s a lot happening in the labs that we don’t know about. [01:08:40] And there’s a lot of breakthroughs that we don’t know about. And we won’t know about them for another few years. So [01:08:45] I think that’s kind of the what makes people feel a bit uneasy.

Payman Langroudi: Along [01:08:50] with along with, you know, you know, we’ve all had it hallucinate like her. [01:08:55]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And yeah, and that sort of non-zero risk that something crazy [01:09:00] will happen by by mistake. Yeah. Not even on purpose. Yeah. I worry more about the on purpose [01:09:05] thing. Like if someone’s got some AI that’s much more powerful than everyone else. That person [01:09:10] can rule the world, right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing I worry about the most. I’m not actually worried about AI. I’m worried [01:09:15] about the humans controlling the AI. Um, and it’s a big, it’s a big thing. Like, [01:09:20] you know, people talk a lot about diversity and I think it gets such a weird [01:09:25] polarity of opinions. But I think realistically, because we have [01:09:30] AI and we’ve got super, super computers, quantum computers, [01:09:35] all these things, you do actually need representation at these top levels [01:09:40] because if you’re not getting it, you’re going to have, um, well, it’s just, [01:09:45] it’s like things are not going to be very user friendly, like to put them in a very simple term, [01:09:50] because if they’re building worlds for people like themselves, it’s not, it’s not going to be good for [01:09:55] everyone. And realistically, I think children get forgotten about a lot generally [01:10:00] in the world. And I think by having representation, you are going to build [01:10:05] a better world for children. I think that’s the most important thing. Like, we can’t just think about the [01:10:10] world for ourselves. We do have to think about the children growing up and what their experience [01:10:15] is going to be like, and how we can ensure that they’re not going to be growing up in a world that’s [01:10:20] like quite dangerous, really, or savage towards them.

Payman Langroudi: I reckon. I reckon [01:10:25] mine and your kids yours particularly because younger um, [01:10:30] could easily date a robot. God, I really believe that. Yeah, I honestly [01:10:35] believe that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Would you be okay with it?

Payman Langroudi: Well, I just believe it’s going to happen. Yeah. Because. Yeah, [01:10:40] you know, like your for you page on Instagram, let’s say the robot knows you better than you know yourself [01:10:45] like that, like that for you page knows you better than you know yourself. And how far are we from [01:10:50] a humanoid robot, right? That’s affordable.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, not that far.

Payman Langroudi: I.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Think.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Let’s call [01:10:55] it four years.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I think they’re releasing them now. There’s like a £30,000 one [01:11:00] going on the market or something.

Payman Langroudi: There you go. But let’s say, let’s say it’s it can do everything a human [01:11:05] can do. And the brain, a brain of four years [01:11:10] time. Chatgpt.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So you know what’s interesting about that? Yeah. I think what that’s doing [01:11:15] is playing to our very, uh, reptilian [01:11:20] minds of basically us being fooled [01:11:25] on a subconscious level.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not talking about shagging the robot. I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, naturally, [01:11:30] that probably is.

Payman Langroudi: I think the version of that will be with a pair of glasses that messes with your brain, [01:11:35] you know, like you dream it or something. Yeah, but my point is, if the robot can do everything a [01:11:40] human can do in terms of motor skills and spraying is ChatGPT from four years [01:11:45] time. Yeah. Like it’s not only people sitting in front of a screen whose jobs are going to go. [01:11:50] The plumber’s job’s going to go, you know, like the dentist job is going to go potentially potentially. [01:11:55]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, potentially. Yeah. I mean, it’s difficult to imagine what the world would be like, but like [01:12:00] I’m talking on an emotional level, emotional level as well, like partners and stuff. [01:12:05] It could be that, yeah, people start competing with robots for, [01:12:10] for partners. Like that would be insane. But I think that, you know, hopefully [01:12:15] there’s still a human need for companionship that [01:12:20] an AI that knows you really well and says exactly what you want to hear can’t [01:12:25] necessarily satisfy.

Payman Langroudi: Really knows you.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But that’s not [01:12:30] necessarily going to tell you what you want to hear. It could give you exactly what you need. Yeah, yeah. The unpredictability [01:12:35] of a human. Yeah. I find this really interesting question. Yeah. That [01:12:40] if we could transfer your brain to a robot. Ray Kurzweil’s dream come true. Yeah. [01:12:45] If you could transfer your brain to a robot and that robot can look like you and act like you, then [01:12:50] when you die, that robot can carry on as you. Yeah. [01:12:55] Now, for you, it doesn’t really work. Yeah, but for everyone around you, it does in a way. Yeah, I.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Think [01:13:00] no, I don’t think so. I don’t think so.

Payman Langroudi: I think because your soul’s not there.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, well, no, no, I [01:13:05] would say, look, I’ve battled with the soul question a lot and I’ve listened to Sam [01:13:10] Harris. And I honestly, if I’m honest, I can’t really actually stand the guy. I think he comes up with some really [01:13:15] terrible theories.

Payman Langroudi: Um, I like him apart from his Islamophobia.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, [01:13:20] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I like him. Honestly, I like him.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: He I think he he’s very [01:13:25] flawed, actually, in the way he thinks he’s he’s very emotional. That’s what I’ve picked up on him with [01:13:30] him. Um, his theories don’t really make a lot of sense. But in terms of the, in terms [01:13:35] of if you’ve ever loved someone in your life, like really loved them and lost them, [01:13:40] um, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a connection and a magic [01:13:45] about it that you’re, you’re easily not [01:13:50] be satisfied by a robot that just looks like them, says what they want to say or says, you [01:13:55] know, kind of is extrapolated from their past data points, essentially, because [01:14:00] it’s really just making a prediction on how they would behave. But [01:14:05] I just don’t think that’s there’s something missing. There’s like a magic in connecting [01:14:10] with that person. And maybe it goes back to my belief of thinking that we’re all connected, that, you know, you can’t possibly [01:14:15] really connect with a robot. Um, but then what connects us? I [01:14:20] don’t know, it’s difficult. I don’t think I’ll ever have an answer to this question. I’m just.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a funny thing. [01:14:25] I went to a friend’s house. They had a puppy.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You know, they say puppy eyes. Yeah. [01:14:30] I was staring at this puppy’s eyes. There was something, man. There was some sort of connection, [01:14:35] like you say. Yeah, between me and that puppy. And it was just like. Yeah, [01:14:40] like a love. Just pure love coming out of this puppy’s eyes.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, yeah, but there is, there is something. [01:14:45] There’s something like, you know, they say that we’re mostly made of [01:14:50] space. Um, you know, we’re just like, like most of us [01:14:55] is empty space, right? But we perceive each other. I mean that if [01:15:00] you think about that, like that’s completely separate, we’re sensing each other. And [01:15:05] so how can a robot replicate that? What we’re sensing of each [01:15:10] other that electromagnetic.

Payman Langroudi: The thing is, though, you know what I think about sometimes, let’s [01:15:15] say, um, let’s just keep it really simple. Let’s say you get drunk. Yeah. [01:15:20]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And and you know, the way your mind and and, and vision [01:15:25] and decisions are when you’re drunk. Mhm. Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I know what you [01:15:30] wanted to say. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Now, let’s say that that is [01:15:35] that was normal. Yeah. And this was drunk. Yeah. [01:15:40] Yeah. And there’s no reason why, you know, anything is normal or not. Like. Like if we could [01:15:45] see X-rays and if we could see radio waves, this would be a very different [01:15:50] room. Yeah. They’d be crap going through. Yeah, but we can’t. Yeah. So. So I [01:15:55] often wonder about that. You know, like, is my chemistry maybe slightly different [01:16:00] to your chemistry? Yeah. And you’re seeing my orange is blue and I’m seeing your blue as [01:16:05] red. Yeah. And then, but then real the experience piece, you know, like you’re saying, you seem [01:16:10] so sure that we’re all connected. Yeah. Why?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, I think, um. [01:16:15]

Payman Langroudi: You’re experiencing it somehow.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, like, a lot of, uh. What’s [01:16:20] really interesting is like, your body grows your brain and your brain [01:16:25] controls your body. And there’s like that connection between your brain and body and, [01:16:30] but your brain chemistry is a lot of it is kind of environment. It’s part environmental, [01:16:35] part inherited. So you’re going to have traits that run through your family [01:16:40] and your perception will likely be similar to, yeah, your, your, [01:16:45] your family and you could turn out very different, but that’s going to be the perception piece of [01:16:50] maybe how you perceived your environment. Um. But [01:16:55] yeah, it’s, it’s, you’re right. There’s a lot. I think we have to be very [01:17:00] mindful of our limitation that we have, um, a human brain, which isn’t, [01:17:05] you know, even the capacity to which it functions at is quite low. Yeah. Isn’t it [01:17:10] like 10%?

Payman Langroudi: Probably.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s something really like stupidly low. And have you [01:17:15] heard that? Apparently we’ve got 36 sensors, something along those lines.

Payman Langroudi: I can imagine. [01:17:20]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That we we’re not aware of apparently.

Payman Langroudi: Like time space.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. Loads like [01:17:25] loads of things like, um, like even, uh, you know, they say one of them is like when you [01:17:30] think someone’s going to call you or you think about someone and then they call you, you know, that one?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I’ve got a theory [01:17:35] on that one.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Go on.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So let’s imagine me and you are buddies, like, like like your buddies with your friends in [01:17:40] Liverpool. Yeah, but you and one of them. Yeah. Call each other, like, [01:17:45] within a five week or five month timescale. [01:17:50] Yeah. And there’s actually a very accurate clock in your head. That’s counting [01:17:55] that time potentially.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s a subconscious clock in your head. [01:18:00] It’s a feeling you get when that time comes around. When you’re four and a half weeks in, the clock in your [01:18:05] head is going, haven’t. It’s about time I contact that person. Yeah. And [01:18:10] it’s similar with the clock in her head. And so you’re thinking about it and then suddenly it rings.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I [01:18:15] feel like that’s way more complicated than telepathy. It [01:18:20] could be. I mean, I’ve had situations where I, I’ve got friends that I don’t message really [01:18:25] like ever. This was at school even, um, and I remember messaging [01:18:30] somebody and he messaged me at the same time and it was so [01:18:35] bizarre. And we were like, did you just message me? And I was asking him about a school project or something. But [01:18:40] things like that have.

Payman Langroudi: An element of assigning meaning to coincidences.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right. I want to [01:18:45] make meaning of the world. You’re right, by the way. I’m not rejecting it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: Who’s to say? But [01:18:50] you know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: A thousand years ago, no one understood light or electricity or whatever, you know. [01:18:55]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. But I think I do think that, um, with human experience, I think sometimes when [01:19:00] you experience stuff, you know, it’s real and it’s just intuition. You don’t know how you know it’s [01:19:05] real. You can’t explain it to anyone because you’ll sound crazy, but you just know.

Payman Langroudi: But you know, the reason [01:19:10] I’m saying about, I think experiences and AI and all that is, you know, you have a dream [01:19:15] feels really real. Yeah, yeah. Is it real? It’s not, [01:19:20] it’s not. Well, there are certain chemicals going on in your head that making this dream happen. Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So [01:19:25] that’s a good point.

Payman Langroudi: Once, once they figure out those chemicals. Yeah. They say, oh, in his dream, like, [01:19:30] state what you can, you can download a dream into someone’s head. Yeah. Then like [01:19:35] the sky’s the limit.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s true. It’s interesting. Why do we dream? And I mean, they’ve done a lot [01:19:40] of research into it.

Payman Langroudi: How do we dream? Why? I get some sort of processing or whatever for the information. [01:19:45] But if you could do that, if I could download a James Bond dream into your head and [01:19:50] you can now go and have that experience. Yeah, like it’s as real as it could [01:19:55] possibly be while you’re asleep. You feel like it’s really happening sometimes. Yeah. I haven’t [01:20:00] dreamt for a long time.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But again, you have people that say things like, [01:20:05] I had a dream about something.

Payman Langroudi: And then it.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Happened and then it happened. And so how do you explain that? [01:20:10] You know, again, it could be coincidence. It seems like a very unusual coincidence when you have [01:20:15] deja vu where you’re like, I have dreamt this before.

Payman Langroudi: So deja vu, I heard someone was saying, it’s like the left [01:20:20] and right side of your brain, right? There’s a there’s a lag between the communication.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Between. [01:20:25]

Payman Langroudi: Left and right. Well who knows? But that’s what I read. There’s a lag between the connection between the left and right. And so in a way, [01:20:30] you feel like you’ve been here already.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But that’s I’ve had a lot of very, [01:20:35] very spiritual experiences in my life. Actually, when I, when I think about it, what do you.

Payman Langroudi: Mean by that? [01:20:40]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, it’s weird stuff. Weird.

Payman Langroudi: It’s difficult to put it into words. Yeah. Because by its very nature, [01:20:45] you say spiritual. It’s almost like words. I know it sounds.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: So crazy [01:20:50] and airy fairy and stuff, but no, I’ve had I’ve had dreams where, um. Oh, and [01:20:55] I honestly don’t talk about it a lot because it’s weird, but I’ve had dreams where like, [01:21:00] um, I’m, I’ve woken up really emotional and [01:21:05] it, it tended to be when I was younger, like I don’t get them as much anymore. But when I was really young, I would have, uh, [01:21:10] I had a really crazy dream about my grandma contacting me and [01:21:15] I didn’t see her face. I just saw her hands. But I knew it was her. And she was passing on a message and a few things [01:21:20] that happened in the dream, like played out in the next 20 years. And it was just really [01:21:25] highly emotional. And my mum had kind of done a reading for her the day before, which I didn’t know about. [01:21:30] Um, and uh, yeah, it was just, it was honestly [01:21:35] very strange, but she would, she had basically told me, um, that she was [01:21:40] really not happy in this dream. And it turned out like we, yeah, we had [01:21:45] a few really awful things happen in our family over the next 20 years. And then when I look back at the dreams, [01:21:50] I realised kind of the scenes that were happening, what they meant. [01:21:55] Um, so it’s just very hard to explain, but that [01:22:00] was a really unusual moment in my life. Like I’ve probably, that was probably the only one [01:22:05] time. And, um, I’m certain that that was [01:22:10] something extraordinary and not normal. Um, and that’s happened a few times [01:22:15] to me. And another time when I was pregnant, I had, um, an experience and, [01:22:20] um, sorry, my boots are rubbing and, um, [01:22:25] and, um, yeah, I had an experience and I know that it was just very [01:22:30] strange. It could have been somebody from the other side. And I know that sounds so crazy, but [01:22:35] you’re so sure of it because it’s, it’s, it’s [01:22:40] a collection of things that would be too much of a coincidence otherwise. Um. [01:22:45] But anyway, at the risk of sounding like.

Payman Langroudi: Well, you can’t rule any of this stuff out, man. You can’t rule any of [01:22:50] this stuff out. We don’t know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But I’m really into physics, right?

Payman Langroudi: And that’s I find that quite interesting. Right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Physics [01:22:55] is physics talks about, you know, different universes.

Payman Langroudi: Multiverse. [01:23:00]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Thing that’s ever that could possibly happen has happened. Um, there’s, [01:23:05] I think physics is so wacky that [01:23:10] anything’s possible. It almost gives you a reason to believe this stuff. [01:23:15]

Payman Langroudi: Like quantum entanglement.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like I.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Couldn’t explain what it is, but yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:23:20] but it’s like you get two, two particles entangled, right? And it doesn’t matter if they’re [01:23:25] on the other side of the universe. When this one moves, that one will move. [01:23:30] Yeah. And we know the speed of light, you know? Question. So how the hell are these [01:23:35] two associated with each other?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That far away, like it seems impossible, [01:23:40] right? But but it’s a real thing. Quantum tunnelling is a real thing. Yeah, they’re talking about that’s how we would [01:23:45] eventually, once Elon gets to Mars, that’s how we’ll communicate. Because if you if [01:23:50] you rely on the speed of light, it takes eight minutes to get to Mars or whatever. Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: These [01:23:55] are all this is like literally how things should be innovated. Like you use these concepts. [01:24:00] Yeah. And, um, and I think, yeah, maybe that’s, maybe that’s why I am, I come across [01:24:05] so wacky is because like, I don’t, I think anything’s possible. No, no, genuinely like I think [01:24:10] anything’s possible. And I do think that, um, you’ve got to trust your intuition [01:24:15] a lot. Like as a human, we’re very lucky. Yeah, yeah, 100% trust my intuition.

Payman Langroudi: Have you always. [01:24:20]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, it’s more of a recent thing.

Payman Langroudi: Me, too.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So I used to be [01:24:25] the opposite of intuition. Yeah, I used to, so not believe in it. Yeah. That if [01:24:30] I felt like, oh, I should turn right here or whatever the decision was, I’d go the [01:24:35] opposite. Just to prove that I’m a scientist, although. And it would just, it would get me in all sorts of trouble [01:24:40] and then sometimes, or a lot of times you see like really successful people [01:24:45] and they say, just feel it in my stomach. And I go with that feeling. And I thought, let’s try that. [01:24:50] In the last ten years, I’ll be much more like trying to be intuitive. Yeah. And it serves you. It’s like, it’s [01:24:55] almost like you’re skiing downhill instead of uphill. Yes.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, it’s very true. I think if you’re very [01:25:00] clear on, I think with intuition, if you’re very clear on your goal, you’re [01:25:05] very clear on where you’re going and why you’re going there, then intuition will guide you. Like [01:25:10] I’m a big believer in that.

Payman Langroudi: But do you get like a bad feeling about [01:25:15] someone and for no reason? My business partner is like, he doesn’t he doesn’t like that guy. He doesn’t [01:25:20] know why.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Do you know what’s funny? I have had that in my life. And then sometimes I realise that it’s because they [01:25:25] remind me of someone I don’t like and I’m like, oh, damn, that’s that’s like my reptilian [01:25:30] brain just being stupid. So no, you have to, you kind of have to obviously like, but [01:25:35] look, I think when you’re we’ve got to be More nurturing [01:25:40] towards that side of our human self that perceives stuff that [01:25:45] we don’t necessarily know is happening. And I think that’s what is important to trust [01:25:50] in your life, you know? Um, you know, if you know who you really are and you know [01:25:55] why you’re doing something, then naturally you’ll trust your intuition. [01:26:00] It is going to guide you. It’s going to help you see the right opportunities. And it’s subconscious. [01:26:05] I think like a lot of it is kind of your internal calculator [01:26:10] sort of being like, oh, this is the right path. You got to trust it because I also like doing [01:26:15] what I do. I speak to a lot of business mentors and I get really frustrated actually, [01:26:20] because like, I’ve got a lot of business mentors that are amazing and they, they will tell me exactly [01:26:25] like what I’m doing right, what I’m doing wrong. And they will almost tell me where [01:26:30] I’m going to go wrong and they’ll get it right. And that’s like, oh, I should have listened to them.

Payman Langroudi: Where do [01:26:35] you find these business mentors from the, oh, like accelerator programs?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. Different programs like accelerator [01:26:40] programs. Um, honestly, sometimes I just meet them randomly. Um, [01:26:45] like, again, really weird coincidences, like met one business [01:26:50] mentor on the plane when I was flying with my nine month old daughter. I [01:26:55] was flying for a business thing as well. And, um, I just started talking to him about my business [01:27:00] and he’s been one of my best mentors and he’s like guided me through a lot of [01:27:05] stuff. Um, and we just kept in touch and he’s been great. I think a lot. You know, that’s intuition [01:27:10] though, isn’t it? Like you start speaking to someone.

Payman Langroudi: I reckon you’re a real sucker for, for [01:27:15] kismet. Like for for for for fate. Yeah. And coincidence. [01:27:20] You know, someone could take massive advantage of you that way, you know, like, maybe, you know, that notion of [01:27:25] arrange. You can arrange a couple of coincidences.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I [01:27:30] am very.

Payman Langroudi: You’d fall for that?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, not at all. I’m super sceptical. I mean, my [01:27:35] upbringing, like I have to figure things out.

Payman Langroudi: And have you heard of that? That that idea? Let’s [01:27:40] imagine that you go to the play and [01:27:45] someone’s sitting next to you, and then you sit on a plane and that person sitting next to you. Like for you.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, no, [01:27:50] I’m not like that.

Payman Langroudi: For you, that would that would tell you all sorts of stories. No.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m [01:27:55] not that gullible.

Payman Langroudi: You know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m really not.

Payman Langroudi: Well, that’s an amazing coincidence.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’m really not. Like [01:28:00] when I, when I talk about, um, people that I’ve built these relationships [01:28:05] with, it’s been over years, you know? So I [01:28:10] gauge character over a long period of time. I’m not someone that’s like, oh my God, [01:28:15] like a coincidence. We must open a business together. Like, [01:28:20] no, I’m, I am a very I’m actually a very sceptical person. Um, but [01:28:25] I realised how wacky I probably sound with. But no, I [01:28:30] genuinely think when you learn about physics.

Payman Langroudi: Your mind opens.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Your mind [01:28:35] opens.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I agree, massively.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Massively.

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about mistakes on this [01:28:40] pod.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Of course I want to talk about clinical error and I want to talk about business mistake [01:28:45] you made.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Of course. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s start with the business mistake. While we’re on business.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Business mistakes, I [01:28:50] would say. Oh, God.

Payman Langroudi: So many. Right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I think [01:28:55] no, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, no.

Payman Langroudi: There’s so many to choose from. For me. [01:29:00]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s a difficult one because I think you you never know when you’re going right or wrong in business. [01:29:05] You actually see.

Payman Langroudi: In retrospect, you.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: See the aftermath after. Right? So I would say for me. [01:29:10]

Payman Langroudi: I suppose he only been two years, isn’t it?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, we start we started.

Payman Langroudi: Business.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: In 2022. [01:29:15] End of. Yeah. Uh, launched our pilot six months later. We’ve been running them for two [01:29:20] and a half years. Um, I guess I won’t really know my mistakes till a couple of years down [01:29:25] the line. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a bit early.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, but I think.

Payman Langroudi: But would you like, for instance, for instance, [01:29:30] some people might think. I wish I’d gotten into it earlier.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, I think my, my, my mistakes [01:29:35] genuinely are not being. Sometimes more assertive. And that’s what I’m learning. [01:29:40] Like.

Payman Langroudi: Um, with staff and stuff.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Uh, so with teams. [01:29:45] Yeah, so that’s, I’m learning like to manage a team basically now. Um. And [01:29:50] I think again, when you’re feeling a bit like I’m not getting what I [01:29:55] need out of. Certain people and are they right for this role? Like now I’m a lot [01:30:00] clearer on that and I’m. A lot more kind of self-directed. Um, so I think.

Payman Langroudi: Do [01:30:05] you have a staff or are you.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, we do, we work. We have like eight people and they’re all amazing. Um, [01:30:10] but we have had in the past, like very early on where we’ve, you know, we’ve shifted a lot. We [01:30:15] had like different staff members we were working with. So I think that’s a big thing. [01:30:20] I’m learning, like if it, if you feel like you’re not getting the best out of someone, you need to explore [01:30:25] that feeling. And I would say that’s probably been connected to my biggest [01:30:30] mistake in business, like not speaking earlier. If something [01:30:35] doesn’t feel right, if I’m not getting the results I need. Um, you’ve got to be like direct. [01:30:40]

Payman Langroudi: Avoid conflict kind of thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I think look as okay, if you want to talk about being a woman, right? [01:30:45] Being a woman, you’re taught to be a good girl. You’re taught to be [01:30:50] go with the rules, play by the rule book. And what I’ve learned is I [01:30:55] have to do things my way. I’m not a man. I can’t behave like a man. [01:31:00] I can’t adopt, um, male styles of leadership. [01:31:05] I’m still a woman, and I still have to find my style of how I’m going to do this. I think that’s [01:31:10] confusing for people. So when I work with people, they’re often a little bit unsure. [01:31:15] Um, of yeah, of how it’s going to go, how my leadership [01:31:20] style is going to be. And that’s okay. It takes time. Um, but also having [01:31:25] the confidence to be assertive, like I’m definitely at a point in my life now where, yeah, I don’t [01:31:30] I don’t think very much about what people think about me because I’m not really interested. I know what, what we [01:31:35] need to achieve, where we’re going. And I think that takes a lot of, um, pressure [01:31:40] off of myself. And as well, it’s good for other people to feel [01:31:45] that because then they’re not so self-conscious about what they’re doing. I’m very forgiving with, with people [01:31:50] I work with as well. Like they can win things back. But I have to trust that [01:31:55] if I’m not getting the best out of them, you know, you have to talk about whether it’s the right role [01:32:00] for them.

Payman Langroudi: Have you fired anyone?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: We had to let go of someone. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You [01:32:05] know, once once you get in it for a few years. Yeah, yeah. You end up like [01:32:10] sometimes you have to find someone who’s done nothing wrong.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Why would you do that? Just because [01:32:15] of costs.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes it’s costs. Sometimes it’s the role has overtaken [01:32:20] them. Um, you know.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: How did you find that.

Payman Langroudi: A nightmare? [01:32:25]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s horrible letting people go. A to a nightmare in itself, but then you realise [01:32:30] later on you realise like that’s many, many people get fired through [01:32:35] no fault of their own. Yeah, like many people like my buddy with a nuclear [01:32:40] power station, he let 2000 people go. No way in in one moment. [01:32:45] Yeah, because you know that that’s what the business needed it to do.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Wow. That’s [01:32:50] cutthroat.

Payman Langroudi: But he had no choice. He had no choice in that moment. Yeah, yeah. And [01:32:55] I was talking to the guy from Pearl AI. He was saying every single person he’s ever fired didn’t [01:33:00] deserve it. Yeah, because. Because he said if they deserved it, someone else would have fired them. [01:33:05] So by the time it gets up to his level, he’s got a thousand employees or something.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s the thing. Yeah, [01:33:10] it’s it’s heartbreaking. Yeah. And I guess you just that’s being a [01:33:15] leader. You have to do things.

Payman Langroudi: You know, you sort of like the different businesses, right? You’re the culture [01:33:20] of your business. Could be this family thing. Mhm. And that’s not very useful [01:33:25] when it comes to firing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: People.

Payman Langroudi: Because, you know, you can’t fire people in your family. Um, [01:33:30] but you know, these are all business in the end is just solving problems like [01:33:35] this. Yeah.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It’s all about learning.

Payman Langroudi: About clinical errors.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Clinical errors. [01:33:40] Um, so yeah, I’ve been quite lucky. I’ve not done a [01:33:45] lot of clinical errors. Um, I the.

Payman Langroudi: Most difficult patient.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [01:33:50] I had a patient that actually, that’s a really good question because I did have a patient that, [01:33:55] um, was quite crazy. I’m not sure if they had a little bit of [01:34:00] like, uh, Alzheimer’s or something. Um, I had a patient [01:34:05] like, um, basically do really bizarre things. [01:34:10] And he was, he agreed to a treatment plan. We prepped [01:34:15] two of his teeth. He had like very worn down like laterals. And [01:34:20] we, um, we had in order to save them, we had to crown them. So we prepped them. [01:34:25] He came into the fit appointment and said he doesn’t want the crowns anymore. And [01:34:30] we were like, we’ve done like a full consent on you. You know, this was actually before Medicube [01:34:35] as well. So we were like, we’ve done a full consent and we’ve spent quite a bit of time on that. And um. [01:34:40]

Payman Langroudi: The funny time to get buyer’s remorse.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Was like, we prepped your teeth, like under those temps, [01:34:45] you’ve not really, you’ve got stumps, you know that. And, uh, and then anyway, he left. [01:34:50] Um, and then he stood outside of our, um, surgery and he was [01:34:55] listening while me and my nurse were sort of trying to understand what happened.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:35:00] juicy.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. He was like listening and so and so.

Payman Langroudi: Listening, like his ear to the door. Yeah. [01:35:05]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. So me, me and my nurse were sort of like.

Payman Langroudi: You were bitching about him. [01:35:10]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Well, no, but I mean, we were confused. We were we were stressed out by the situation. And I [01:35:15] was sort of saying to her, did I was it something I said, do you think, do you think I wasn’t very [01:35:20] clear? And she was saying, well, no, he knew exactly what he was doing. You don’t go to Sainsbury’s [01:35:25] and at the checkout like go. Oh, like I’m gonna. [01:35:30] Like you don’t take the food home basically and go, oh I don’t want to pay for it. So um, anyway, he heard that [01:35:35] and then, uh, called the practice and like started being really weird with us. And [01:35:40] it was just really bizarre. We didn’t know what was going on. That was one of the hardest.

Payman Langroudi: Resolve or [01:35:45] didn’t resolve.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um.

Payman Langroudi: Did you what did he do? Did he go on with the with the temporaries? [01:35:50]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No. Like I just I fit them in the end for free. No, [01:35:55] no, he he paid, we gave him money back. We did give him some money [01:36:00] back.

Payman Langroudi: Is it for no reason at all.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But for him it was. I was a bit like. Does he have something [01:36:05] psychological? Like I wasn’t sure I was like Alzheimer’s or.

Payman Langroudi: Whatever it could [01:36:10] have been.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Or bipolar. We really weren’t sure. I still haven’t resolved that one, but [01:36:15] that was the one time I was I was really caught out with the patient. I was like, there is something quite [01:36:20] unusual about his personality that.

Payman Langroudi: What about what about what about. I’m not looking [01:36:25] for a terrible story. Yeah, I am, really. But but but what about, you know, you [01:36:30] do full mouth rehabs? Yeah. What about the stuff you’ve done that you’ve [01:36:35] learned from? You know, like we learn from our mistakes a lot of the times. So, [01:36:40] you know, what? Were you doing something a certain way. Realised that wasn’t the best way of doing it. Now [01:36:45] you do it a different way or you know what are gems around? Full mouth rehab, man. It’s a big [01:36:50] thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, it’s a big thing. But I think if you.

Payman Langroudi: What have you, what have you broken it down into? Like, what’s [01:36:55] the crux of it? If I’ve never done one occlusion, I’ve done.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Essential. Everyone talks about occlusion, [01:37:00] don’t they? But like the key thing is like, I hear a lot of dentists say like, oh, get, get [01:37:05] like, um, their back teeth, like their bite through [01:37:10] their back teeth. And I’m like, what are you talking about? Like the, the key thing is you always [01:37:15] need solid anterior guidance. Like that is like number one thing in occlusion, like you [01:37:20] need solid anterior guidance and you need. You know, if you can get good solid [01:37:25] anterior support, that’s like the beginning of a full mouth rehab. And [01:37:30] then you go on to your posterior contacts because if you work the other way around, [01:37:35] that patient is going to feel very uncomfortable. Their bite is going to feel really uncomfortable. So [01:37:40] that’s like my big take home message for like, if I’m talking [01:37:45] to like, you know, other, um, dentists earlier on in their career in [01:37:50] my practice.

Payman Langroudi: But is it, is it that that’s an awesome thing? And there’s another way of doing it that starts at the back. [01:37:55]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I mean, I think all the institutions basically say, even Chris all [01:38:00] said, like, you know, when you think of occlusion, you think of your jaw joint and you think of an anterior stop. Basically, [01:38:05] that is like the solid it seems.

Payman Langroudi: Right.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Basis of occlusion. Yeah. [01:38:10] Everything else. Okay. Canine guidance. You know, they talk. I [01:38:15] think Frank Speer talks about modified canine guidance, which is where you guide on your premolars anterior [01:38:20] guidance. I think I’ve heard anterior guidance might be a myth from [01:38:25] one of them, I can’t remember. Anterior guidance or canine guidance. There’s like this this like, oh, maybe it’s [01:38:30] a myth, I don’t know. But that’s kind of going really deep into the topic. But I think the basis [01:38:35] of it is, yeah, um, you know, your TMJ and an anterior [01:38:40] stop, that’s like the key thing and you really can’t go wrong from there. Like if you get that right. And then [01:38:45] also, you know, there are, it does get more complicated when you’re, um, going [01:38:50] into like centric relation and stuff like that. If you’re doing like a reorganised approach. [01:38:55]

Payman Langroudi: Did you have a moment like were you doing a reorganised approach and couldn’t get [01:39:00] it right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Um, I think, um. No, [01:39:05] I.

Payman Langroudi: Haven’t done a reorganised case.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, no, I have done them. So basically you just, [01:39:10] you need like a leaf gauge. I mean, the most annoying thing is when your nurse loses your leaf gauge and you’re like, oh, for God’s [01:39:15] sakes, like, I need this. And I have had to have situations where I’ve had to get them [01:39:20] to bite on like, um, no, I’ve had to like, I’ve had [01:39:25] to like do a workaround basically where I’ve got like I had, and this was really, really like annoying [01:39:30] because we couldn’t find it anywhere, but I had to get them to buy on, um, some [01:39:35] gauze and grind forward and back, forward and back and squeeze because we didn’t have a Lucia [01:39:40] jig as well. And sometimes you’re just in situations like that where you have to like make things work and [01:39:45] then, you know, you get the bike ride and you, you know, do that. So there’s ways around it. Like I wouldn’t, [01:39:50] I wouldn’t want to publicise that, but that’s like situations where you’re like, ah, what am [01:39:55] I going to do? Like the patient’s here. We, you know, are we going to really like rebook them our diaries [01:40:00] full? Um, so you do find workarounds sometimes, but.

Payman Langroudi: Comes to mind if I say, what’s the best [01:40:05] dental education you’ve had like lecture wise or course wise?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, I would say [01:40:10] definitely Crispr is amazing. And, um, the Dawson [01:40:15] Academy, I’d say both of them. I’d say they are incredible. And I would say like, there’s a lot [01:40:20] of, um, for me, I think if you get functional, if you get functionality correct, [01:40:25] the cosmetic side comes with it.

Payman Langroudi: So the link between those two [01:40:30] is quite interesting, isn’t it? Because we sort of see them as separate things we do.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a bit like mind body like. [01:40:35] Yeah, they’re not separate things.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. And I think because they say that your, your um upper [01:40:40] central incisors, like the position of them is the most important in the whole mouth. [01:40:45] If you get that right, then things just fall into place. But I think, you [01:40:50] know, occlusion is taught in a way that it’s so complicated. It sounds like a bit of wizardry or something, [01:40:55] but it’s really not that complicated. You just want, you know, there’s like five pillars [01:41:00] of occlusion. I think that Dawson teaches and you just so I would say reading his book, um, [01:41:05] now I’m not somebody that like reads and highlights every chapter, [01:41:10] but I get, I get the gist and I’m like, yep, I know what I’m doing. Um, but yeah, [01:41:15] I would say, I would recommend that to dentists trying to get good with occlusion. That’s like.

Payman Langroudi: Dawson.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Dawson’s [01:41:20] book is amazing.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s your.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Book? Yeah. And Dawson lectures. Um, [01:41:25] I think they’re worth their weight in gold for teaching you. And, like, not just. It’s not just for full mouth rehabs, [01:41:30] though. If you’re doing like a single crown, you need to understand how to check the occlusion [01:41:35] properly on. Yeah. You know, protrusive movements, lateral [01:41:40] excursions, you need to understand what you’re looking for. And he’ll just like lay it down in a way that’s really [01:41:45] simple.

Payman Langroudi: One of the very obvious, very simple things that people don’t do. [01:41:50] And it’s when you when you figure it out, it seems so obvious, right? It’s look at the occlusion before [01:41:55] you start drilling.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. That’s true.

Payman Langroudi: So damn obvious.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Yeah. [01:42:00]

Payman Langroudi: Even for filling. Yeah. Like look at where’s the occlusion on this this. Yeah. That’s true. We [01:42:05] all do it at the end.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. You’re like, oh, should I check this at the start? I know I [01:42:10] used to actually check it at the start, but I’m way less way less uptight with my dentistry now. [01:42:15] I’m a lot more relaxed. And yeah.

Payman Langroudi: How about none? Dental. So you [01:42:20] said you went to all these conferences where was like an aha moment in those tech [01:42:25] in the tech space?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, in the tech space. Oh, what do you mean? Like an [01:42:30] aha moment where I was like, oh, I know where I’m going.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, like, for instance, you know how to conduct [01:42:35] a sprint. Yeah. Well, I don’t know if I talk to you. Four years ago, you wouldn’t know what a sprint is.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, [01:42:40] no. But that’s all boring stuff. That’s all.

Payman Langroudi: Okay, so what was it?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: What was it? Learning online and stuff.

Payman Langroudi: Um, what [01:42:45] what is it in the moment in the entrepreneurship tech, particularly [01:42:50] tech entrepreneurship. I mean, the SaaS space, right? You’ve got yourself into like a space that’s quite [01:42:55] competitive.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, there are competitors out there too. Your product. [01:43:00]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Who does dentistry? Does one.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. There’s loads.

Payman Langroudi: Are there loads? [01:43:05]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. There’s not like a handful. There would be. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:43:10] anyway, in in that area of tech entrepreneurship, where [01:43:15] did you learn something? What was an aha light bulb moment for you?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I honestly just think every [01:43:20] time I go to a tech conference, I’m like, this is insane. Like, I went to the AWS conference [01:43:25] about a year ago and it was incredible. And I was like talking. It’s so funny.

Payman Langroudi: Web [01:43:30] services.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, yeah. And what was so funny is like, you talk to dentists and they’re really impressed [01:43:35] with all these services. And then you go to these tech conferences and you see like how [01:43:40] much of them there are like the market you [01:43:45] follow? Mm.

Payman Langroudi: Do you follow?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: What do you mean, do I follow?

Payman Langroudi: When you go to an AWS talk, [01:43:50] do you understand what the hell’s going on? Do you understand what they’re saying?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, dude, [01:43:55] I do, but I’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Been hard to follow that sort of thing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Tech conferences for, like, six years. I mean, [01:44:00] I’m not a developer, so there would be, you know, there would be a.

Payman Langroudi: Massive.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Gap. Yeah. [01:44:05] And I sort of say to my co-founder, what does this mean? You know? Or I’ll go on ChatGPT and just research [01:44:10] it and come back to him with all this spiel. And he’s like, what, ChatGPT? [01:44:15]

Payman Langroudi: One of my buddies from school, he’s a mycologist. Yeah, a fungus expert, right? [01:44:20] And he’s global, globally famous guy. And he just became a professor [01:44:25] and he said, oh, come along, come along to my. They have a professorial lecture. [01:44:30] They give. And I said, sure, of course I came. And you know, I went through [01:44:35] dentistry. I thought a little bit, one slide in, I didn’t, I couldn’t follow anymore.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: One slide. Yeah. [01:44:40] But that’s fungus. That’s fungus. It’s a bit different.

Payman Langroudi: It was a 45 minute lecture [01:44:45] about his research. Yeah. After one slide that was lost.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: But I do think because we use tech [01:44:50] products that actually you’ll be surprised how much you will understand.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:44:55] plus you, you’re filtering for that, right? You’re like, yeah, in a way, your algorithm is now sending [01:45:00] you tech stuff and you know, you’re chasing, you end up seeing what you’re after in a way.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. I [01:45:05] mean, when I go to tech conferences, I know exactly like what I’m looking for, like whether I’m looking for [01:45:10] specific partners, whether I’m looking for like what innovations happened? Um, yeah, [01:45:15] so, but I would, I would say, like, honestly, being a founder is so [01:45:20] hard. I don’t think you have aha moments. I think every day is like, God, [01:45:25] there’s so much like, like I had a call just before I came here with, [01:45:30] uh, one of my mentors and I was like, so confident we knew exactly what we were [01:45:35] going to do. And he just like threw everything, threw a spanner in the works. Basically. [01:45:40] He was like, why don’t you do this, this, this, this, this, this is what you should do this. And then like, you’re [01:45:45] going back to the drawing board and going with your team and then trying to manage everything. You know, you’re trying to manage like [01:45:50] your users, like your accounts and then your roadmap, and then you’ve got [01:45:55] your mentors saying crazy things all the time and you’re just trying to make sense of it. So [01:46:00] it’s, I get less of those aha moments because I don’t think your brain has the freedom to just be [01:46:05] like. You know, free. Um, it’s [01:46:10] just so intense. You’re just constantly, um, but it’s fun. It’s why [01:46:15] I do it. Like, I love the challenge. I don’t think I could live not doing it. Like [01:46:20] now I find dentistry so unstressful. It’s so funny how like I’ve recalibrated. [01:46:25] Yeah. As my break. Yeah, yeah. I’m like, this is like a chilled [01:46:30] out day, like the.

Payman Langroudi: Number of mothers I come across. So they say dentistry is their me time.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That [01:46:35] is the craziest thing.

Payman Langroudi: I hear that a lot.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I hear that from [01:46:40] patients when they lie back and they’re like, oh, this is so relaxing. And I’m like, oh, [01:46:45] you have a child.

Payman Langroudi: Saying it was the most relaxed part of her day was [01:46:50] seeing a patient.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That’s hilarious.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been it’s [01:46:55] been a massive pleasure, man.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, thank you Payman. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [01:47:00] I’m gonna leave you with the final question.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: Fantasy [01:47:05] dinner party.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, yes.

Payman Langroudi: Three guests.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Dead or alive?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: I’ve [01:47:10] got. I’ve got a really funny one, but I would have to have this guest. Um, [01:47:15] Stephen Hawking, I absolutely love Stephen Hawking. He actually inspired [01:47:20] me so much as a child. Um, so Stephen Hawking [01:47:25] definitely.

Payman Langroudi: Was the first superstar scientist, wasn’t he? It’s interesting.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah, but do you know what? Do you know [01:47:30] why I love him so much? Actually, there’s the key reason I love him so much is [01:47:35] because if you saw Stephen Hawking in a nursing home without his equipment, you [01:47:40] would think that, you know, he was incapable and there [01:47:45] was nothing. You know, you wouldn’t think that he was having all these thoughts. Um, he I [01:47:50] mean, I don’t think there’s been a single person in history that has made such a movement like [01:47:55] he did without even being able to really so much as lift a finger. I [01:48:00] just find him like one. He’s he’s literally 1 in 1,000,000,000 or 1 in [01:48:05] 1,000,000,000,000.

Payman Langroudi: He’s wrote beautifully. You know what I found with I, I knew who Stephen Hawkins [01:48:10] was. Yeah. But I wasn’t following particularly. Um, then I got, I got my [01:48:15] phone broke and had to take it to the Apple shop. Um, they said, yeah, we’ll need it for 2.5 [01:48:20] hours. I was in Cardiff. I wasn’t even at home. So I’m like sitting around without [01:48:25] my phone, like completely addicted to my phone. Right?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, now I didn’t have satnav. [01:48:30] I didn’t know where to go. I couldn’t get an Uber. I couldn’t get a line bike. [01:48:35] I couldn’t do anything. It’s totally debilitating. Yeah. So what should I do? I saw a bookshop. I [01:48:40] went to look and it was a second hand books. And the one out of all the ones that were there [01:48:45] was his.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Which one did you pick? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I had three hours [01:48:50] to just sit and read, which I hadn’t done in such a long time. But he wrote so beautifully. [01:48:55]

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh he’s amazing.

Payman Langroudi: It wasn’t just scientific. It was really like.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like experiential. [01:49:00] Almost like.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: It. Yeah. See, I think he’s he’s a very intuitive thinker. Yeah. And, [01:49:05] um, it’s just so interesting because I think, yeah, I think the way [01:49:10] he thinks is more intuitive than scientific actually. And I think a lot of breakthroughs [01:49:15] are made that way. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, because people think differently in that situation.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Not even [01:49:20] differently. I think sometimes, again, it’s like a reflection of like another concept you’ve seen [01:49:25] and you’re likening it. So there’s a, there’s a thing, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this, but there’s like [01:49:30] in a philosophy, like there’s the saying like as above, [01:49:35] so below. And that is meant to be like how, um, in astronomy, [01:49:40] um, the stars, how they kind of move sometimes that reflects things [01:49:45] that are happening down here and that’s used in like hermetic, hermetic philosophy. [01:49:50] So a lot of the times in philosophy, a lot of those movements [01:49:55] were affected by the observations they were doing in the universe [01:50:00] at the time. So Aristotle and Socrates were all like around at a similar time where they were making [01:50:05] massive breakthroughs about the universe, like the known universe. So yeah, so [01:50:10] I think that’s why I love physics so much. I think there’s so much to learn, even.

Payman Langroudi: It’s the best science. [01:50:15] It is.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Oh, it is, it’s not. I feel like it’s not even a science. It’s, it’s bigger than a science. It’s like [01:50:20] a science and an art mixed together. It’s amazing. But yeah. So Stephen Hawking’s second guess. Um, [01:50:25] I think David Attenborough, he always really inspired me as a child too. Um, and [01:50:30] I really struggled with the third guest. The third [01:50:35] guest, I just, um, I really struggled, but I think for [01:50:40] the sake of this podcast, I’m going to.

Payman Langroudi: Say you struggled. You couldn’t think of anyone.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: No, I could think of someone [01:50:45] and I couldn’t. So like.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, your grandma. How about that? No, as simple as that.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yeah. [01:50:50] She was she was an absolute boss, that woman. Yeah. Um, but yeah, like probably [01:50:55] a family member that we’ve lost, like that would be my natural intuition to [01:51:00] like pick that person. But for the sake of this podcast, I’m going to say, um, Andrew [01:51:05] Carnegie because I would love to know more [01:51:10] about what he did 100 years ago with the steel business and all of that.

Payman Langroudi: I like [01:51:15] that. I like Andrew Carnegie. Before, actually, I’ve never had any of those before. Yeah. [01:51:20] Amazing.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Weird bunch.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve really enjoyed it, man. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. [01:51:25] I’m really super impressed with what you’re doing. Oh, by the way, it’s a product available to buy now or no it is. So [01:51:30] how much is it?

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Yes. So for associates, it’s £43.50 a month. [01:51:35] For dental practices, it’s £180 a month. So that.

Payman Langroudi: Covers. Can you put in [01:51:40] there.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: That actually is unlimited at the moment. We’ve kept it. Yeah, very very simple. And if you go on to Medicube [01:51:45] site, just register your interest and just drop your email and [01:51:50] we’ll contact you and we’ll sign you up.

Payman Langroudi: Seems fair to £43 [01:51:55] a month. Later. The first treatment plan. Oh my.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: God. What I didn’t mention, which I really wanted to mention, [01:52:00] is how much my income has like doubled since using Medicube.

Payman Langroudi: Just [01:52:05] because it sells things easier.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Easy. Like I don’t have to book endless reviews, you know? You get a lot of patients [01:52:10] that are just so like they want the treatment. They know, like their veneers.

Payman Langroudi: What is it about [01:52:15] it that does that? Is it like pleasant? Honestly.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: You’ll have to ask our patients. But, [01:52:20] um, but I think for patients, they just want that moment of like, okay, first, [01:52:25] firstly, having a personalised information pack about you is really like nice. [01:52:30] And I think they enjoy that moment of having, of reading about themselves. And [01:52:35] in addition to that, I think it gives them a time to research [01:52:40] at home rather than otherwise they’ll be going on Instagram and maybe looking up like, oh, [01:52:45] what is like, what are veneers? What are, what is a root canal or whatever? And you can’t control what content [01:52:50] they’re looking at. So there’s that huge explosion of like misinformation Online, and [01:52:55] you’re kind of controlling that by sending them a personalised info pack. They are getting. [01:53:00] Yeah, the content that you’ve verified essentially, and you know the specific [01:53:05] information that is relevant to them. So it’s really nice for them because they don’t have to [01:53:10] go and search for that information somewhere else. You’d be surprised how patients feel really misinformed [01:53:15] generally.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing man. I keep thinking back to [01:53:20] when I was three years in to this business. I was nowhere near as organised [01:53:25] as as, as, as relaxed as you are. I didn’t [01:53:30] have those, uh, grant payments that we were just constantly, constantly [01:53:35] underwater.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Must have been very hard for you to be fair to have Dental partners. And it’s like [01:53:40] having investors, though, isn’t it? Yeah. Like we’re lucky we’ve not got investors, but as soon as we have [01:53:45] investors, it’s going to be intense. Like I know it will be, but we’re ready for that. I think [01:53:50] we’re we’ve actually spent too long in this phase. I think we’re ready to to move on. And we’ve [01:53:55] got a really like.

Payman Langroudi: But you know, you’ve done very well, man. You’ve got you’ve got the products ready and you know where [01:54:00] you are. You know who you are. You know what you want to achieve. It’s a beautiful thing. So thank you. Thanks [01:54:05] so much for coming.

Rawa Jawad Quinn: Thanks so much for having me. I’ve really enjoyed being here.

[VOICE]: This [01:54:10] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one [01:54:15] with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:54:20] hosts Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:54:25] for listening guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just [01:54:30] a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say [01:54:35] and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you [01:54:40] did get some value out of it, think about subscribing and if you would share this [01:54:45] with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks. [01:54:50]

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.