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[VOICE]: This [00:00:35] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:40] podcast where you get to go one on one with [00:00:45] emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [00:00:50] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:00:55] gives me great pleasure to welcome Megan Chard onto the podcast. Megan, I’ve [00:01:00] known you. I was thinking about it today, at least a decade since you [00:01:05] qualified. Basically, I think I knew Simon, you’re a little bit famous husband maybe two [00:01:10] years before that. I knew since he was a student. And you’ve got an even more [00:01:15] famous aunt. Um, we’ll get to that. Um, lovely [00:01:20] to have you.

Meghan Chard: Thank you for having me. It’s a privilege. And, um. Yeah, [00:01:25] I’m happy to. I’m excited to have a chat and, uh, see where things go.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:01:30] tell me, Megan, you are principal of roughly. [00:01:35] How do you say it?

Meghan Chard: I know it’s a tricky one. Yeah. I think technically it’s roughly lodge, roughly [00:01:40] Lodge. It’s basically it’s named Rothley Lodge because Simon’s parents got married in a place called [00:01:45] Rothley Lodge in, um, Quorn up in sort of the East Midlands, whatever it [00:01:50] is, Leicestershire. And so when they bought the practice they called it that. And that’s why it’s called Rothley [00:01:55] Lodge, but it’s kind of spelled Rothley Lodge, and I think no one really knows how, how it’s meant to, you know.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:02:00] yeah, that was, that was Simon’s dad’s practice or parent’s practice. Yeah. And you guys bought that [00:02:05] in 20 1716.

Meghan Chard: That sort of eight years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And expanded. [00:02:10]

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so I’m interested in all of that really. [00:02:15] So you know, your, your, your plans when, when you think back to [00:02:20] you qualified, how many years you were a dentist before you decided we’re going to [00:02:25] buy the practice? Yeah. Your plans there, all of that.

Meghan Chard: So [00:02:30] um, so Simon and I were trained together. So we’ve always sort of, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [00:02:35] go on. How did you meet? Go on, go on. I’ve heard it from Simon. I need to hear it from you.

Meghan Chard: Uh, so basically [00:02:40] I did the five year undergrad course and Simon did the four year [00:02:45] undergrad course. So he did pharmacology at Bristol first. So, you know, you can [00:02:50] do the, um, what’s it called? I don’t know, I can’t remember now too many years ago, but you can sort of bypass the first [00:02:55] year and coming to the second year. So that was my first year and I was like, there’s just [00:03:00] no one here for me. I’m not marrying a dentist. There’s no one here for me. I’m just gonna have a good time. [00:03:05] All good, you know, you know, whatever.

Payman Langroudi: So this is kings.

Meghan Chard: This is kings. Yeah. And so the [00:03:10] first day of the second year, um, I was, I went on the first day, didn’t make an effort, [00:03:15] you know, didn’t put my lenses in, just put my glasses on and you know, just went to the lecture just thinking [00:03:20] again, same, same crew, just first day of the second year, but [00:03:25] they did not tell us is that there’s a whole new cohort of fresh meat. And [00:03:30] I remember walking in and being like, oh my God, who are these? [00:03:35] Like, it was like, and it was like, there’s an excitement in the air. And I noticed Simon in the lecture [00:03:40] theatre, he was wearing a red hoodie and I thought, oh my God, Crikey.

Payman Langroudi: And the tallest guy in the room.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, [00:03:45] yeah, exactly. And even taller with his hair. His hair was quite spiky then. Yeah. And, [00:03:50] uh, and actually I was living in Chalk Farm at the time, so I was walking up Camden High Street and I was on the phone to my mum and I was like, oh [00:03:55] my God, mum, there are some hot people in my ear. It’s very exciting. So that’s kind of when I first sort [00:04:00] of saw him. And then that night was the truffle shuffle, which was this 80s night. So everyone got dressed [00:04:05] up. I looked like I’d fallen into a bag of clothes, like brightly coloured clothes. And we started [00:04:10] talking and we both liked electro music, talking about our like, favourite DJ’s and then sort [00:04:15] of just friends for a little while. And then, yeah, after a couple of months, one thing led to another and um, cheesy [00:04:20] saying, but the rest is history.

Payman Langroudi: But but I remember his version of events. He had a girlfriend at that [00:04:25] point. Oh, did you know this?

Meghan Chard: Um, not at first. Um, [00:04:30] not until.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t tell.

Meghan Chard: You didn’t tell me at first. Uh, and then. Yeah, kind of, um. [00:04:35] Yeah, you find out in the end, don’t you? But um. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You were leaving it at that.

Meghan Chard: It [00:04:40] was, it was pretty much on its last legs anyway.

Payman Langroudi: So you know, that’s cool. [00:04:45]

Meghan Chard: It’s fine. We’re married now. It’s all good. It’s all.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. Yeah, yeah. So. Okay. Yeah.

Meghan Chard: I [00:04:50] didn’t realise he told you that bit. So you’ve just caught me a bit, you know, in the spotlight.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:04:55] then what? You okay? You went out. I remember first time I met you. You weren’t married? [00:05:00]

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, yeah, you and I was saying delay, if you remember, I was. I always [00:05:05] say delay. Um, but you got married. And so then what? You were both [00:05:10] associates.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. So both associates doing our own thing. And then we actually worked part time for size [00:05:15] parents as well. Mhm. Um, so that’s kind of where we got our feel for the practice. Um, [00:05:20] and then, you know, sort of one thing led to another. And then Simon’s parents wanted [00:05:25] to retire and it’s sort of kind of just the momentum sort of happened and it just kind of was the next step [00:05:30] really. So we worked as associates for, I think like what, 2013 [00:05:35] to 18. So five years, we’re associates there. And then we took over bought, bought [00:05:40] it off them. And then, um, yeah. And then the biggest thing though was that we bought the practice [00:05:45] literally a month before I gave birth to our eldest. Wow. So that was like, that [00:05:50] was mega. You know, I remember being in labour in the hospital trying to figure out how to pay people for the first time. I hadn’t paid people. [00:05:55] Yeah. Um, so that was like a, that was like two major milestones happening, colliding, [00:06:00] should I say, at the same time. So that was quite major.

Payman Langroudi: You you’re more involved [00:06:05] in running it than he is. Is that correct?

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: He’s he’s out and about lecturing.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. But he’s [00:06:10] he’s more he’s more business minded. If I’m completely honest. I didn’t train to be a business person. I [00:06:15] trained to be a dentist. So it doesn’t come as easy and as naturally to me to do business things. [00:06:20] Yeah. Um, whereas it’s very, very easy for Simon. And, um, so we have like our strengths [00:06:25] and weaknesses and I’m more kind of, you know, so yeah, I mean, I don’t run it day to day [00:06:30] because, you know, we’ve got managers, but like there’s always something to do and there’s, you know, you’re always having to chase up on something or, you [00:06:35] know, like what, you know, something’s been left in the past. I’ll pick it up and say, what happened with that? And you’re always having to think that [00:06:40] way. But I’m definitely more ops sort of, um, ops minded and size [00:06:45] more like kind of direction leading, leading that way, you know.

Payman Langroudi: So then what? He who [00:06:50] does the hiring and firing, do you both.

Meghan Chard: Um, so now we’re sort of delegated [00:06:55] the hiring of the nurses to our managers. Yeah. And then the associates, [00:07:00] I would probably, I’d probably interview them and then I would probably um. [00:07:05] Yeah. I think I’ve interviewed mostly sometimes I’ll bring Sai in depending, but some, a bit of both, [00:07:10] but mainly me, I would say.

Payman Langroudi: And you get like you must do, you must get fan boys and girls [00:07:15] saying I want to work here because it’s you too.

Meghan Chard: Uh, I think Simon does. They don’t really message me that much, which is fine [00:07:20] by me. But yeah, I think more for Sai. He does? Yeah. He gets.

Payman Langroudi: So does that mean the associate that turns [00:07:25] up at your interview is expecting more than just patients in the practice. [00:07:30] He’s expecting like some form of mentorship. Or is that something you offer to get the [00:07:35] right associate or what.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What’s the deal for an associate at Rothley Lodge?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, [00:07:40] I think so. Cider’s like one to ones with them and stuff like that. Um, and [00:07:45] do you know what it is? We’ve had like a really large NHS contract for so many years.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:07:50] did you carry that on when you bought it?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, it was massive [00:07:55] and it was.

Payman Langroudi: Still in NHS.

Meghan Chard: We still have some NHS but it’s much smaller.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Meghan Chard: We [00:08:00] had to reduce it because it got to the stage where we’d actually, even with size profile, we couldn’t actually find [00:08:05] it really hard to get associates. Mhm. Um, because they didn’t want to do the NHS and the NHS basically. [00:08:10] So now kind of in a slightly different situation where, you know, we’ve got [00:08:15] a much smaller NHS contract. So dentists now, you know, it’s much more easier [00:08:20] to get really good associates now I would say.

Payman Langroudi: And talk me through. I mean, Simon’s [00:08:25] both his parents are dentists. You said your uncle is a dentist. Talk me through the [00:08:30] sort of the I don’t know the I want to call it privilege that [00:08:35] that gives you in dentistry because now my my daughter’s announced that she wants [00:08:40] to be a dentist. And in a way I’m thinking, well done. At least someone. One of our kids is [00:08:45] because both me and my wife were dentists.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Um, so, [00:08:50] you know, when you went, how much planning? I mean, knowing Simon, you guys probably had [00:08:55] a big plan for what you were going to do to this place outside of building work. I mean, you did building work. [00:09:00] You expanded it.

Meghan Chard: In the practice. You mean. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But I’m thinking of like the, the mindset [00:09:05] going in. Were you going in thinking we’re going to make big changes?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Yeah, I think [00:09:10] so.

Payman Langroudi: Did that annoy people. It must have done. It’s like there must be there must have been people who were [00:09:15] working there thinking everything’s been stable, everything’s been fine. Now these guys are talking about digital [00:09:20] or whatever it was marketing, whatever it was.

Meghan Chard: I don’t think it ruffle any feathers because I think [00:09:25] we weren’t sort of saying how it was done before was bad because it wasn’t it was, you know, his parents were [00:09:30] did an amazing, amazing job. Yeah. Incredible job. And they grew it from like a two surgery practice [00:09:35] to a five surgery practice. Um, but, you know, just naturally, you know, [00:09:40] the younger, the younger you are, the more sort of in the know you are of the newer techniques and technology. [00:09:45] Right. Um, so it’s just kind of a natural progression that we could see things that were happening, [00:09:50] um, and could and, and saw we could incorporate that and improve and grow the practice. [00:09:55] So it didn’t ruffle any feathers. And I think, you know, um, I mean, my dad still works at the practice [00:10:00] and he. Yeah. And he’s, and he like, he, you know, he was still owning it when we bought the Sarasin. And [00:10:05] so he’s always up for kind of trying new things. Yeah. Um, so no, it was, yeah. It was, [00:10:10] it was um and we implemented things slowly. You know, it was like bit by bit. So I think it was, it was a [00:10:15] natural transition.

Payman Langroudi: And you had to pay him for it properly, right? Because size got brothers [00:10:20] and sisters.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, we got it valued and we had to.

Payman Langroudi: Get it handed to you.

Meghan Chard: We bought it. We bought it at market, [00:10:25] market price.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And so were you involved in sort of the financial [00:10:30] planning as well?

Meghan Chard: Uh, with all of that when we bought it. Yeah. I mean, it’s a bit yeah. I mean, I’m [00:10:35] very lucky that, you know, my in-laws are amazing. Um, but obviously it can [00:10:40] be quite tricky with like knowing each other’s insides and outs and business [00:10:45] and things like that is like a very fine line that we have to be careful treading on. Um, but, you know, we [00:10:50] manage, we manage it, we kind of navigate our way through it. And, you know, we still have a really [00:10:55] good relationship and things like that. So we’re quite lucky that way. But it has been challenging.

Payman Langroudi: But you know, what I mean is what I [00:11:00] mean is anyone who’s buying any practice has to have a good understanding of the numbers and [00:11:05] understand that the numbers are very different. Once you bought the place because you’ve bought the place for [00:11:10] a huge number that needs paying off. Yeah. So, so this is my [00:11:15] point. Like if I’m going to start a practice, what do I have to learn? Did you, did you [00:11:20] have to go and, you know, watch YouTube videos or whatever and learn anything about this? Or did [00:11:25] you find.

Meghan Chard: Running a practice? Do you mean?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. But the numbers, what do we need to grow?

Meghan Chard: I’m still we’re still figuring it out now, [00:11:30] to be honest. Really, it’s still like, you know. Yeah. Because I mean, as you say, you know, [00:11:35] you’re just your dentist, aren’t you? So you’re kind of learning on the job.

Payman Langroudi: You know. Do you have a handle of it now? Like running [00:11:40] costs like these?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Yeah. But it’s taken a few years to get that way. To be honest, I’m not gonna lie. We’re winging it [00:11:45] quite a lot of the time. But now I do.

Payman Langroudi: This.

Meghan Chard: Business. Yeah, I do feel like now we’re definitely. And [00:11:50] I think parlour has massively helped with that. Oh, really? Yeah. To be honest, because, um. [00:11:55] Size, I had to learn about how to actually, you know, so in dentistry, you know, it’s quite, uh, [00:12:00] the money’s quite patients come in coming in and so not easy to make money, not [00:12:05] that way, but.

Payman Langroudi: Compared to toothpaste.

Meghan Chard: Like. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, your patients come in and it’s quite, you know, [00:12:10] you don’t have to do too much, especially if you’ve got, you know, an NHS contract and patients come in and see you regularly and they’re coming in. So, [00:12:15] so whereas with, with parlour, he had to, you know, really know the numbers and really sort of [00:12:20] um like reject. Yeah. And also just really, um, you [00:12:25] know, expenditure, you know, what the expenses are really have a handle on what’s incoming and [00:12:30] outgoing and things like that. So that’s sort of translated into our practice. Um, so that’s [00:12:35] been amazing because I’ve kind of learned from him then and now. We definitely have a much better handle [00:12:40] on it. And we know, you know, what materials are and this and that and the percentage. And, you know, we’re kind of finally [00:12:45] getting.

Payman Langroudi: Surprised you the most about practice ownership. Like even [00:12:50] though you’ve had all these people in your history who’ve been dentists, someone going into [00:12:55] practice ownership as an associate, what surprises you?

Meghan Chard: I [00:13:00] think the staff management is really tricky.

Payman Langroudi: Trickier than you thought it was.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:13:05] and then also the legality side of that, you know, like, you know, just.

Payman Langroudi: Kind.

Meghan Chard: Of. Yeah. And [00:13:10] yeah. And all like your actual responsibilities and like pensions and this and that. And actually this is so it’s [00:13:15] like, it’s a whole, a whole job in itself is people have HR departments. Yeah, yeah. And that’s, you [00:13:20] know, you’re learning all that as you go along and you make some mistakes and you have some hairy moments and you’re like sugar, [00:13:25] you know? Um, so that I think is the hardest bit of, and I think when you ever speak to anyone [00:13:30] who’s a business owner, they will always say it’s managing the staff that is so challenging. Um, [00:13:35] so yeah, that’s what, that’s what I would say.

Payman Langroudi: So what are the top tips for managing staff [00:13:40] that you’ve learned in the last what is it eight years.

Meghan Chard: Top tips.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:13:45] let me give you an example. One thing I’ve learned, and I should have known this a long time ago, is that almost [00:13:50] body language is super important as the principal, you know, as, as the guy [00:13:55] at the top, when you walk in, you know, you gotta.

Meghan Chard: Bring the energy, you gotta bring the.

Payman Langroudi: Energy. Yeah. [00:14:00] It’s super important. Yeah. Um, there’s a, there’s a responsibility to being the boss. [00:14:05]

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So like you say, bring the energy, but go on.

Meghan Chard: It’s like, it’s almost like being a parent in some ways. Like you’ve got [00:14:10] to show up every day and like, even if someone’s like annoyed you or someone has done something that you think is [00:14:15] really disrespectful, it’s gotta let it go. And like the next day it’s wake up and turn up and just bring [00:14:20] the energy. You can’t if you’re in a bad mood and you’re leading the team and you come in and you’ve given this negativity, [00:14:25] then it’s just going to infiltrate in throughout the team. So you have to show up every day and just bring the energy. And remember, [00:14:30] they’re looking up to you. Um, And you’re trying to lead them and trying to bring them on your [00:14:35] on this journey that you’re visualising with you.

Payman Langroudi: Then. Okay. I mean, you know, we’re [00:14:40] talking about delegating, for instance. Yeah. And some people are really good at it naturally and [00:14:45] others aren’t. You know, like I’m not delegating. Yeah. Yeah. Um, some people will say, look, [00:14:50] this is the goal. These are the milestones. This is how we’re going to check in on each other. Yeah. This is what success [00:14:55] looks like. This is what failure looks like. And really, you know, stick to that. Yeah. That’s a great delegator, right? I’m [00:15:00] more like, yeah, this is the end. Go figure it out. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Which one would you say you are? [00:15:05]

Meghan Chard: Um, what I probably do is give them the end. Then I realise it’s [00:15:10] not working and I have to backtrack and say like, okay, this is actually how we need [00:15:15] to do it. Um, but I think, yeah, it’s all in the communication, isn’t it? But it takes a while to delegate. I mean, at [00:15:20] first I was definitely doing everything, trying to do everything myself.

Payman Langroudi: Trusting.

Meghan Chard: Anyone. But then you can’t do it all. [00:15:25] Yeah. So you just gotta delegate and just. And then just keep checking in, I suppose. But, um.

Payman Langroudi: But I see, like, look, [00:15:30] I know Simon so well. Okay. I’d say his super strengths are he’s laser [00:15:35] focussed, he’s super ambitious, and he thinks in long [00:15:40] time frames. What would you say are your superpowers?

Meghan Chard: I [00:15:45] am like a little bit hyperactive, like in terms of like, I [00:15:50] can’t sit still. Some might call it ADHD. No, I joking. I don’t know who [00:15:55] knows what it is, but I just like to get things done. So like.

Payman Langroudi: Do you make decisions quite [00:16:00] quickly?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Which might be borderline impulsive.

Payman Langroudi: Do you trust do you trust your gut? [00:16:05]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I do actually, especially with people. Do you. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:16:10] a.

Meghan Chard: Super strength. And actually I think I’m really empathic. Like I’ll know if someone, something’s off with someone. [00:16:15] I’ll just sense it immediately.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a super.

Meghan Chard: Strength. Yeah. And that’s what I think. And I’ll be like that. [00:16:20] Something’s not quite right there.

Payman Langroudi: I remember in the early days when my wife was involved in enlighten, [00:16:25] I remember sometimes we used to sit at night talking about one person’s life, one person’s [00:16:30] issues in their life and, you know, so involved with the team that it was almost like a [00:16:35] family nightmare sometimes.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Does that does that resonate? Did you do that before, [00:16:40] or did you manage to dissociate and have the manager take.

Meghan Chard: There’s so many team. You do get sad, obviously [00:16:45] about certain things, but I think you just have to like you [00:16:50] can’t take everything on, on your shoulders. You’ve got your own stuff to deal with and you’ve only got a certain amount [00:16:55] of emotional bandwidth. Yeah. Um, and I think, I think you can’t take everyone’s, you know, worries [00:17:00] and struggles on. So you can, you can do what you can to help. But I think we’re quite good [00:17:05] that way. I mean, I’ll feel a bit say you hear some really bad news, you’ll feel really sad about it and down about it for [00:17:10] a little while. But then, you know, you’ve got to, you know, just you’ve got to crack on with other things, I suppose. But yeah. [00:17:15]

Payman Langroudi: You’ve had you had kids or pregnancy right at the beginning. And so [00:17:20] maybe that gave you some sort of understanding, some sort of, you know, like, you know, you gave some, some difference to like [00:17:25] your home life. And whereas we didn’t have kids when we started the company. Yeah. And I guess it was like a kid [00:17:30] in a way.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me about the juggle.

Meghan Chard: The juggle? The juggles a [00:17:35] lot.

Payman Langroudi: It is.

Meghan Chard: It’s a lot. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Mothers who I have here, you’ve [00:17:40] got three kids. How old are they?

Meghan Chard: Seven. Four and one.

Payman Langroudi: Oh my goodness.

Meghan Chard: You [00:17:45] know, we’ve just in the.

Payman Langroudi: Past month you manage to [00:17:50] do it.

Meghan Chard: All. I know. Honestly in the past month though my youngest has started sleeping through like properly. So I’m getting [00:17:55] seven hours of sleep now. So I feel like we’re entering a new era. Mhm. Um, are [00:18:00] the you know, what I find really hard is obviously [00:18:05] you’ve got the drop off and the pickup and all that sort of stuff, but I find it really hard to have like a clinical brain and [00:18:10] then a business brain and then a home brain and then like a wife brain. [00:18:15] I find it really hard to switch between all those things. And I think just being a mom alone, you’ve got [00:18:20] thousands and thousands of decisions you have to make, you know, and think about, you know, all the homework and what uniform [00:18:25] they need, because every day is a different uniform or they’ve got a party coming up, so you need to buy some presents, and they’re [00:18:30] growing out of those clothes and they’re going away next week. So we need to like get some new socks or some new shoes, like the decisions, [00:18:35] you know, you go out for the day and you’re like, right, I need, you know, I’m thinking, right, spare clothes and nappies [00:18:40] and snacks because we might not get home just quite on time. So I need to make them snacks and dessert.

Meghan Chard: And I think [00:18:45] I know Simon’s got a lot on his plate, but I think the difference between a mom and a dad [00:18:50] is that we take that all that on. And I think it’s draining. I think it’s like it just [00:18:55] your brain never stops. Um, so I find that hard trying to switch between [00:19:00] the different roles and even at work, you know, um, I’ll sedate [00:19:05] patients sometimes and things like that. So I was running late in the morning and I was sedating [00:19:10] a patient for two other dentists. So they were waiting for me to finish and I was running late. So [00:19:15] I was getting a bit flappy, and I had to nip upstairs to the office to get all my sedation stuff [00:19:20] out. And then my manager was like, oh, Meg, um, just need to a. Quickly talk to you about fire the staff [00:19:25] fire training. So I booked into it and I was like, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t like switch [00:19:30] to that brain. And that’s what I find really hard. Like I’m always multitasking and switch and switch tasking [00:19:35] and I just find that really draining. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it’s, I think that’s hard when [00:19:40] you’ve got like different elements going on.

Payman Langroudi: My wife used to say that she used to see doing [00:19:45] the actual clinical work as me time. Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Because you can just focus on [00:19:50] one thing at a time.

Payman Langroudi: Sad state of affairs. Man with crown prep is me time a. [00:19:55]

Meghan Chard: Real.

Payman Langroudi: Luxury?

Meghan Chard: Uh, yeah. No, I can relate to that. I can understand, so yeah, it’s [00:20:00] it’s, um.

Payman Langroudi: But, you know, I look at Instagram and I know this is the way Instagram looks, right? [00:20:05] You look like you’ve got it all, you know, you’re on one minute you’re on holiday, next minute you’re [00:20:10] on a, on a one on one date night with Simon. And there’s kids and clearly [00:20:15] none of us have it. All right.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. No. And I don’t think you can have it all either, to be honest. [00:20:20]

Payman Langroudi: It depends what all is. Right.

Meghan Chard: And everyone’s all is different.

Payman Langroudi: You know, you’re.

Meghan Chard: I mean, I do have it all in some ways, but, [00:20:25] you know.

Payman Langroudi: Of course, but.

Meghan Chard: You.

Payman Langroudi: Could be 100 practices. You haven’t got that right.

Meghan Chard: And clinically I’m, you know, [00:20:30] like I’ve been, to be honest with you, um, you know, I feel like I’ve been hiding under a rock for the last eight [00:20:35] years because I’ve been trying for a baby, pregnant, having a baby, trying for the next baby [00:20:40] pregnant.

Payman Langroudi: This is what I was going to ask. What gives? Yeah. For you. So you’re saying your clinical [00:20:45] progression gave a little bit?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, I don’t think I could. You can’t. For me, that was [00:20:50] for me. I’ve always wanted a family that was like a priority for me. Yeah. So that was what I wanted. [00:20:55] Um, so as a result I had to take a step back from clinical and then, you know, you’ve got the practice side of [00:21:00] things as well. So maybe if I didn’t own a practice, my clinical would have gone that way. But then we have a practice. So [00:21:05] that gives us our lifestyle and things like that. So, um, and our flexibility and our autonomy. [00:21:10] So that’s kind of the priority in that. So, um, so clinical has definitely taken [00:21:15] a step back. Um, and now if I’m being completely honest, I feel [00:21:20] after three kids there’s probably about a three three brain cells left in there, so it’s really hard. My [00:21:25] memory is gone and it’s a real thing. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, um, you know, [00:21:30] we’re friends and I know my friend’s kids names, but in the moment I’m talking and I’m.

Payman Langroudi: Like, yeah, I know that.

Meghan Chard: I can’t think [00:21:35] of like my best friend’s kids names and it’s awkward and you’re like, oh, you know, you know, your [00:21:40] little love, you know? And so it’s, I find that really challenging. Like, I find it really hard to kind of get clinically [00:21:45] kind of keep remembering things and trying to learn things, you know, because I feel like I’ve got, you [00:21:50] know, a million plates spinning in your brain and there’s only so much you can hold on to, you know, [00:21:55] so that’s, that’s challenging because I used to be, you know, I used to be, you know, like [00:22:00] I used to be really like, really on it, you know, and love learning and doing all the new [00:22:05] techniques and things and, and then, you know, for the past eight years, I’ve had to take a step back, which is fine because [00:22:10] I’m so happy with what I’m so happy with what I’ve, what I’ve got. I’m like, I’m so happy. So, but [00:22:15] something has to give essentially.

Payman Langroudi: To give is the point, right? And you know, it’s not going to be the children. Yeah. [00:22:20] It’s not going to be the business. Yeah. Um, looks like you’re not you know, you’re taking care of yourself. [00:22:25] You’re going for runs and things often it’s that.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. No, exactly. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The relationship. Yeah. Let’s [00:22:30] not you know let’s not beat about the bush. The relationship needs time as well. Right. Um, but something has [00:22:35] to give and I speak to people.

Meghan Chard: You need to have a holiday.

Payman Langroudi: Holidays. Holidays. Do you have a [00:22:40] nanny? Yeah. You need a nanny? Yeah. You need a.

Meghan Chard: Village. You need a village, to be honest with you. [00:22:45] Do you know we. For my third, I thought I’m gonna treat myself to. So we have, like, um.

Payman Langroudi: A night [00:22:50] nanny, a night nurse.

Meghan Chard: No, I never, I never had a night nanny.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Okay.

Meghan Chard: Just just [00:22:55] it was a martyr for that one. Just did it for all three. Just took the took the hit. But it’s [00:23:00] fine. You know what? It’s you know, it’s part of part of motherhood. Um, yeah, we have a nanny now. Um, [00:23:05] my two clinical days that I go to work, she comes in at 6 a.m. and she stays at 6 [00:23:10] p.m. and that means that’s why you might see, you know, an Instagram me and Sy in the same room because [00:23:15] we have that time to exercise. Otherwise we never exercise together. Otherwise we have to tag team it. [00:23:20] But on those two days we get to exercise at the same time. And like this morning we did some hierarchy [00:23:25] training. We went for runs and and that’s amazing. And I remember when [00:23:30] I just had two kids, you know, we didn’t have a nanny that would come in the morning and I would basically [00:23:35] do my workout, get the kids ready, you know, get our lunch ready, get our scrubs ready. And like, it was just, [00:23:40] it was just so busy. And by the time I got to work, I was just so stressed, like dropping one kid off here and another kid off [00:23:45] here. And I remember thinking, oh my God, it is such a juggle. And then third time around, we just treated [00:23:50] ourselves to a nanny and she’s amazing. And, um, yeah, I’d say she comes at 6 a.m. and [00:23:55] we come to work and I’m like, right, I’m ready to take on the day. It’s so nice. Honestly, it’s worth [00:24:00] every penny. And it’s just to kind of give your life some harmony and some balance. Yeah. Of course. Um, that was [00:24:05] a game changer. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Of course, I think it’s so important for a woman to have a career so [00:24:10] important, you know, why not? Yeah. That’s correct. That piece of your head that [00:24:15] that addresses progression and being good at something and, you know, you [00:24:20] know, giving something to the world, it’s giving something back to the world. It’s a really important part of your brain. [00:24:25] Um, God forbid something happens. You can, you could, you can feed your children. There’s [00:24:30] that obvious, obvious part of it as well.

Meghan Chard: But we’re so lucky in dentistry. Yeah. Because not a lot of flexibility. [00:24:35] Yeah. You know, when you speak to other mums in the playground, like they don’t [00:24:40] work because they can’t have something that’s flexible or the money’s just not enough that it’s not worth, [00:24:45] you know, the sort of childcare and things like that. Or you have to work full time. It’s really tricky. So I feel very [00:24:50] privileged that way.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t want to talk about kids the whole time. But you said [00:24:55] you definitely wanted children. Have you always definitely wanted children, or was there a time where you weren’t [00:25:00] sure or, you know? Because I come across lots of teams, team members say, oh, I never want [00:25:05] a kid now have three children. Yeah. What was that like? Do you relate it back to your [00:25:10] own childhood or what was it about you knowing that you want to be a mom?

Meghan Chard: Just always loved [00:25:15] babies. When I was a kid, I was young, you know? I was the youngest of four. Okay. So I think I always wanted my parents [00:25:20] have another baby, but obviously I’m the youngest of four. They already had enough. And [00:25:25] so they obviously never had any more. And I always wanted a younger brother or sister. And so any time [00:25:30] there was a little baby around, I always loved like playing with them. Um, and so yeah, that was that was [00:25:35] it really just love, love kids.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and that decision just stuck through to adulthood. Yeah. It’s interesting, [00:25:40] isn’t it?

Meghan Chard: I know, and like I wanted my own family since I was a little girl when you were a child yourself. It’s very strange, [00:25:45] but obviously it’s that internal drive, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: Of course. Yeah.

Meghan Chard: You know, it’s biology.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah.

Meghan Chard: So, um. Yeah, [00:25:50] always, you know, always wanted kids. Um, kind of always wanted it all really. That’s the thing, you know, I wanted the [00:25:55] kids wanted to have like a career, um, always fiercely independent. I’ve always wanted to be able to like, [00:26:00] support myself as well. That was kind of my main focus. Um, so [00:26:05] yeah, that’s kind of my background really.

Payman Langroudi: So well, [00:26:10] While we’re there, let’s talk about your aunt. Your your aunt by marriage [00:26:15] was president of Ireland. Yeah, it’s pretty.

Meghan Chard: Major.

Payman Langroudi: Mary [00:26:20] McAleese. Yeah, I’m a massive fan. I’m a. That’s good. Your aunt’s way more famous than your [00:26:25] husband. Um, I’m a massive fan of hers. But tell me that. I mean, [00:26:30] the question of, like, in your family history, was there something about, you know, women being empowered, [00:26:35] educated? I know she was an academic, wasn’t she?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, yeah. But she came from like, she’s [00:26:40] the eldest of nine kids. Really? I don’t think they had a lot of money, but yeah, she, I think so [00:26:45] my, my parents and, and my uncle, my auntie, they’re from Belfast. So like they were Catholics. [00:26:50] Um, and I guess going up during the troubles, they were like second class citizens. Um [00:26:55] and so I think for them just to get out of poverty, you know, there are a lot of jobs that weren’t available for Catholic people and [00:27:00] things like that. So for them, education was like, number one, to get out of poverty and get out, [00:27:05] you know, to get yourself up in the world. So.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so in your house, was that like an ingrained [00:27:10] to you kids ingrained?

Meghan Chard: My parents were both teachers. So and, you know, obviously, you know, [00:27:15] they, they gave us everything they had, but they had four kids and they gave us piano lessons and this lessons [00:27:20] and that and that. So we didn’t have a lot of money. Don’t get me wrong, you know, we weren’t on the breadline, but we didn’t have we didn’t have luxuries [00:27:25] growing up, you know, we didn’t go on like holidays and things like that. Like, you know, we’d go to Ireland on holiday. [00:27:30] That was a holiday to see family. Um, but.

Payman Langroudi: They were you not in Ireland.

Meghan Chard: Or. No. So basically [00:27:35] they left Ireland because of the troubles.

Payman Langroudi: Oh I see.

Meghan Chard: And my parents met in Manchester, [00:27:40] they went to become teachers in Manchester and then they never went back to Belfast because it was 80s. [00:27:45] And it was like stuff was, you know, shit was going down. So they actually went to the Bahamas [00:27:50] interestingly. Well, yeah, like completely different. And when I think about that, I think, wow, like [00:27:55] going from Belfast to like a tiny island in the middle of like, oh my [00:28:00] God, like a completely different, um, so they went there for a few years and then eventually they decided [00:28:05] to go back to Manchester because the troubles were still going on. So yeah, I kind of grew up a bit in Manchester [00:28:10] and then went back to Ireland for my secondary school and then we came back to Manchester. [00:28:15] So I’m kind of like an Irish Mancunian is how I describe myself basically.

Payman Langroudi: Belfast. So interesting. [00:28:20] My dad studied at Queens.

Meghan Chard: Oh really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And back in the 60s. And he [00:28:25] said because he was neither a Catholic or Protestant, they always used to [00:28:30] come to him to, to like him and his friends, to like be president of the students union or whatever. [00:28:35] Brilliant.

Meghan Chard: You know, neutral territory. I love.

Payman Langroudi: That.

Meghan Chard: What did he study? [00:28:40]

Payman Langroudi: Economics. Economics. And it was like a big group that used to get sent by the oil [00:28:45] company to, to study abroad. And for some reason Belfast was a place that they studied.

Meghan Chard: But [00:28:50] it’s so random.

Payman Langroudi: But my dad’s like a very strict atheist. He’s [00:28:55] very much does not believe in God. And he was saying how funny it was that these, these two groups that [00:29:00] were so close to each other trusted him. So he doesn’t believe in God.

Meghan Chard: And [00:29:05] they’re fighting over and.

Payman Langroudi: They’re fighting over the smallest thing.

Meghan Chard: I know.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:29:10] the troubles, I mean, we go to Belfast a lot with our course and [00:29:15] what a great town it is now. What a great. It goes to show, doesn’t it, that if you let a let a people [00:29:20] thrive, they can thrive.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And yet your parents had to leave. Yeah. Because [00:29:25] of the troubles. Yeah. It’s really tough, man.

Meghan Chard: I know, but it’s a great place. The people are [00:29:30] so friendly.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. It’s hard. I can understand the accent, but I can imagine other people cannot [00:29:35] understand.

Payman Langroudi: You say, come again?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, the accent is great. [00:29:40] I mean, Simon couldn’t understand my dad at first. My dad would be like, could you pass the salt, please? [00:29:45] And I’m like, you have no idea.

Payman Langroudi: Boy, can they drink. Yeah. You know, when [00:29:50] we go out on the social. My goodness, everyone’s out till 3 a.m. and [00:29:55] then the next day, everyone looks like they’re completely okay.

Meghan Chard: Like I I’ve lost those that [00:30:00] ability. I’m like, you know, the hangovers are unreal for me now, but, um.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, so [00:30:05] look in amongst all of this now you’ve found an interest in airway obstruction. [00:30:10]

Meghan Chard: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: And childhood airway obstruction.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Which is super interesting. So [00:30:15] let’s, let’s talk about that because airway dentistry is becoming very fashionable. [00:30:20] Mhm. And I guess we’re talking about sleep apnoea and snoring and all of that. And devices [00:30:25] you can put in adults. Yeah. For a start to help with that. But let’s talk about what are the for [00:30:30] children? What are the firstly, the signs and symptoms of a child who’s having airway [00:30:35] obstruction. Yeah. What should we be looking out for. And then what are the treatments.

Meghan Chard: So [00:30:40] the thing is sleep disordered breathing is kind of the sort of big headline the title. [00:30:45] And essentially it’s like a disruption in a child’s, you know, you know, even [00:30:50] adults obviously can have sleep disordered breathing. And essentially it’s a disruption in their normal breathing [00:30:55] habits while they’re sleeping. And it’s a spectrum. So it ranges from kind of mouth breathing at [00:31:00] night to sort of some snoring to upper airway resistance syndrome, to obstructive [00:31:05] sleep apnoea. So it ranges from kind of resistance and restriction. So not getting as much oxygen [00:31:10] in um, all the way to kind of complete collapsing of the airways and getting no oxygen in at all. [00:31:15] And what that means is, um, it affects the amount of oxygenation that’s occurring in [00:31:20] your body at night when you’re sleeping and it affects your ability to get into deep restorative sleep. [00:31:25] And, you know, obviously deep restorative sleep is essential. You know, you have so many.

Payman Langroudi: Sorts of different.

Meghan Chard: Systems, everything, [00:31:30] everything in your body, you know, you need to sleep, you know, if you don’t sleep, you actually will die. So, um, [00:31:35] you know, during deep restorative sleep, you have, you know, your brain is flushed out of toxins and [00:31:40] waste products. Um, and actually build up of these products is linked to kind of Alzheimer’s and dementia. So [00:31:45] it’s really important that, you know, when you’re sleeping, you have continuous deep sleep. So this process can keep [00:31:50] happening several times throughout the night. Um, so obviously.

Payman Langroudi: You on, on one of the posts, you [00:31:55] had a picture of an MRI of someone who slept really well.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And someone who hasn’t slept is massively different. [00:32:00]

Meghan Chard: Yeah, the firing up there, the brain, you know, and you know, those areas are involved with memory, decision [00:32:05] making, problem solving. So if they’re not firing up properly, like, you know, you know, [00:32:10] it’s like, for example, sleep deprived parents, you know, they struggle. They’re like, you know, your memory, you know, your.

Payman Langroudi: Brain [00:32:15] fog.

Meghan Chard: Brain fog, you can’t think, you can’t really function. It’s really tough. Um, and the reason [00:32:20] why I’m so passionate about it with children is because children are going through such rapid [00:32:25] growth and development. It’s like it really affects them way more than an adult. And with an adult, [00:32:30] it’s really bad. Like, you know, it can cause depression, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, stroke. It’s linked, [00:32:35] you know, with all these things. But in a child, they’re like massively growing, you know, and. [00:32:40]

Payman Langroudi: The mental.

Meghan Chard: Stuff. And they need that oxygen. That’s their powerhouse, you know, and so, [00:32:45] um, then therefore it’s going to affect them massively at school with their learning, with their behaviour. [00:32:50] You know, I know I’m emotional wreck if I’ve not had a good night’s sleep, but you know, with children, um, [00:32:55] with their focus, with their attention, Um, you know.

Payman Langroudi: It’s so crazy, isn’t it, that even when [00:33:00] you were a kid, you remember there was some kid who used to come to school like, um, naughty [00:33:05] or. Yeah, you know, something. And, and, you know, okay, nowadays we call, we call that [00:33:10] ADHD, but I heard sleep apnoea has something to do with that.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. So, so, so [00:33:15] sleep disordered breathing is kind of linked with like, so let me [00:33:20] rephrase. So 50% of ADHD cases have sleep disordered breathing.

Payman Langroudi: Really? [00:33:25]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. So what you should always do is if your child’s been diagnosed with ADHD is always [00:33:30] look at the sleep. It might not be the sleep, but always look at the sleep because there’s a 1 in 2, 1 in 2 [00:33:35] children sleep anyway. Right? Exactly. Um, but obviously if your child is, [00:33:40] say, mouth breathing, which is kind of the main things that I’m trying to like educate people on [00:33:45] if their mouth breathing, it’s limiting the amount of oxygen that they’re getting in. Imagine, you know, with an adult, [00:33:50] you know, we provide them with a, if they’ve got if they’re snoring, we provide them with a the mandibular [00:33:55] advancement splint. Yeah. And you’re doing that because it’s opening up the airways, right. [00:34:00] So if your mouth breathing as a child. And that’s because when they’re snoring, their snoring, because their mouth [00:34:05] the mouth’s open and the snoring with the, with the oropharynx is it’s like kind of that vibration, right? So [00:34:10] same thing was the child. When the mouth is open, the jaw hinges back and [00:34:15] it compresses the airways. Yeah. And actually, um, which I find mind blowing, an [00:34:20] average seven year old’s airways is seven millimetres in diameter. Uh, [00:34:25] and if that mandible hinges open just by half an inch, it can actually close it up by [00:34:30] six millimetres. I’ve actually got some straws in my bag to show you. Can I show you? Sure. Of course. [00:34:35] So this is an average sort of airway of a seven year old. And if their mandible drops open by half an [00:34:40] inch, it can actually do that, right. So can you imagine trying to breathe all your essential oxygen when [00:34:45] you’re a child through something like this?

Payman Langroudi: So we’re looking at a massive straw and a tiny straw, basically. [00:34:50] Yeah. Yeah. That really that shows it.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Right. So, um, and so then what happens [00:34:55] is the child is getting fragmented, deep restorative sleep. So they’re basically sleep deprived. [00:35:00] And so it affects their body in so many different ways. And what that looks like that they, they, the symptoms, [00:35:05] the outward symptoms of this are basically they look to the outside [00:35:10] world when you don’t know that they’re linked, they look random. So they could be, could be bedwetting, tooth [00:35:15] grinding, um, ADHD symptoms, um, you know, sweaty, restless sleep, [00:35:20] morning headaches, eczema, asthma, um, you know, all these [00:35:25] things and people then start treating them separately, right? So if you’ve got like eczema, you need all these lotions, [00:35:30] if you have asthma, your inhalers, if you’ve got ADHD medication, [00:35:35] you know, or you know, you’ve got anxiety, you know, if [00:35:40] you don’t have enough sleep, you’re anxious the next day, anxiety, a case of therapy or whatever, or medication. [00:35:45] So all these things are kind of looked at separately.

Payman Langroudi: And do we have any idea what percentage [00:35:50] of children are having this issue.

Meghan Chard: Well, there’s lots of different studies [00:35:55] that show different things. I mean, I’m linked with this company by which, you know, we can talk [00:36:00] about later or not. I don’t mind forever, but um, the baby, um, they have done some studies [00:36:05] and I know obviously it’s, they’ve done their own studies, but it’s just an indicator of the scale of [00:36:10] the problem. So they did a study on 500 children, and nine out of ten of those [00:36:15] children were displaying at least one sign of sleep disordered breathing. And there were other studies that [00:36:20] are showing 70%, 60%, 80%, but a lot of children.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Are [00:36:25] like, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Um, suffering.

Meghan Chard: Suffering from this. It’s an endemic. And, [00:36:30] you know, in America, in Australia, they are all over it. All the American academies. [00:36:35] So the American, uh, paediatric, orthodontic, the Ada, they all [00:36:40] say that dentists should be screening for sleep disordered breathing in children. Um, [00:36:45] and in the UK, unfortunately we’re quite behind, uh, in that.

Payman Langroudi: We tend to be. Yeah, but [00:36:50] tell me. So when you say screening, what do I do as a dentist?

Meghan Chard: So you, um, so [00:36:55] I use a sleep questionnaire and what I would do is I would do when I see a child for an examination, [00:37:00] the first thing I look at is basically any tooth wear. And I’m parents come to me all the [00:37:05] time. I’m like, oh, they’re grinding their teeth. I can hear them through the next door. Is that normal? And before I knew [00:37:10] any, any of this, I used to think, oh yeah. I mean, you know, they’ll just kind of grow out of it. Didn’t really know what to [00:37:15] do and couldn’t make them a night guard because their teeth were exfoliation. Right. And you’re like, you know, unless [00:37:20] their parents are millionaires and they want to every six months, you know. Um, but now I [00:37:25] know that it’s a bit of a red flag. And so if I see tooth wear, I’ll then look at the palate and I’m like, oh my goodness, [00:37:30] the palate is really high and narrow. Or I look at the baby teeth and there’s no spacing between the baby teeth that [00:37:35] they’ve got the perfect aligned teeth already. And they shouldn’t have that because they need the space for the adult [00:37:40] teeth to come through or, you know.

Payman Langroudi: So as you see these signs, one after the other, it [00:37:45] gives you it’s almost like detective work. Yeah, exactly. You get you get the sort of stronger and stronger inkling that there is a problem. [00:37:50]

Meghan Chard: And then I’ll say, so, you know, I had an emergency patient in a couple of weeks ago and they came. The parents were worried [00:37:55] that a tooth had come out and was coming, you know, just something that wasn’t really an emergency. But they were, you know, how [00:38:00] some parents can be a bit bit worried about a tooth coming through in the wrong place or something. So they came through [00:38:05] and she was five or something, and all her baby teeth at the front were like perfectly aligned, [00:38:10] no spaces. And then I looked at her palate and it was narrow and her teeth were a bit worn. So I just [00:38:15] said to them, does she snore at night at all? Like, how’s her sleep? And they were like, yep, she snores. [00:38:20] She’s so sweaty. She’s up several times in the night. She sleeps in [00:38:25] all these funny positions. So she’s there like she sleeps with the neck always like this. And that’s, [00:38:30] that’s the child’s way of trying to body’s way of trying to keep the airway, trying to keep the airway open.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Meghan Chard: And [00:38:35] all these things. And they’re like, we’ve been to paediatricians and they just said she’ll grow out of it and this and that. And, [00:38:40] and they were so relieved I’d actually asked these questions because they knew deep [00:38:45] down that something wasn’t right. But no one knowing the no. You know, no one knew what [00:38:50] was going on. And so when I was asking these questions, I felt like a massive relief that actually, oh [00:38:55] my goodness, there is something going on here.

Payman Langroudi: So by the way, such a beautiful moment. That moment.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, yeah. I mean, [00:39:00] honestly, I get like, I get goosebumps and like teary every time. Yeah. The parents like, because the parents get really [00:39:05] emotional. Um, because they know something’s not right, but they don’t know what and they go to the GP [00:39:10] and, you know, we’re not trained on this sort of thing. So no one really, obviously I’m in a group, [00:39:15] so I know lots of people now in the industry, but it’s kind of like, you know, on Instagram, the algorithm, it [00:39:20] knows that I’m into airway space now. So all I see is airways. So I think there’s, I think everyone knows about [00:39:25] airways, but really not really that many people do. So I feel really passionate about trying [00:39:30] to, um, spread the word on this because, uh, yeah, I think it’s, it’s mega.

Payman Langroudi: I think the moment [00:39:35] of diagnosis. We need to talk about it more. It’s such a beautiful moment. It’s such a beautiful thing. I think when, [00:39:40] when I’ve had a parent or someone who’s had a particular issue, we don’t [00:39:45] know what it is. And then someone definitively says that x plus y plus [00:39:50] z equals this diagnosis. And at least, you know.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, it’s a relief, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: Yes. And, [00:39:55] and one of the privileges of our job really, because, you know, there’s things like taking people out [00:40:00] of pain. Yeah.

Meghan Chard: It’s massive, isn’t.

Payman Langroudi: It a beautiful thing? But then I expect once you do [00:40:05] the treatment, does the parent is the parent now expecting bruxism to stop? So [00:40:10] what do you say about that?

Meghan Chard: I mean so I mean. When [00:40:15] you say treatment. So I mean there’s obviously lots of different. So what is [00:40:20] really important to note about sleep disordered breathing is that it’s a massive jigsaw puzzle. Yeah. And there’s lots [00:40:25] of different pieces at play. So it’s not one. You can’t just wave a magic wand and [00:40:30] fix things because there’s usually several things going on at the same time. So it could be that, you know, they’ve got massive [00:40:35] adenoids and tonsils and that’s blocking the airway. So so they might be mouth breathing because [00:40:40] the adenoids are massive and they can’t breathe through their nose, so they’re opening their mouth. So that’s [00:40:45] kind of one element.

Payman Langroudi: Do you end up do you look for that?

Meghan Chard: Yeah, I look for that. Look for the tonsil size now and I’ll refer out [00:40:50] if they’re if they’re big in T.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Um or I’ll tell parents [00:40:55] that’s really big. You need to go and speak to your GP and get referral or whatever. But again, a lot of GPS are not really [00:41:00] don’t really know about it. So I’ll just do referral to ENT now myself to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: Um, but ENT [00:41:05] is on to it.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Well, I don’t know. I’m in, I’m in like a, a [00:41:10] a a group, you see, so I know certain, but I don’t think all of them, I don’t think there’s that many paediatric ents. [00:41:15] Mhm. Um because I think most people think you take your tonsils out for tonsillitis, [00:41:20] but you don’t, you take them out for airways. That’s kind of the reason why you would take them out more than tonsillitis. [00:41:25] Um but what else. You know, if the tongue isn’t like working properly, [00:41:30] then you need to train it up and strengthen it with myofunctional therapy. Because as dentists, I mean, [00:41:35] do you know how important the tongue is? The tongue’s like so important and we just were not trained on it at all. An undergrad. [00:41:40] But actually the tongue like positions. It shapes your palate.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:41:45]

Meghan Chard: Um, and we all know if you’ve got a thumb sucker, we know about a low tongue position. Well, it’s mega because [00:41:50] you know, that palate is so narrow. And if that palate is so high and narrow, that’s going to interfere [00:41:55] with the nasal airways, then, which then means that child can’t nasally breathe as efficiently. And [00:42:00] that’s going to impact them into adulthood because nasal breathing is like really a basic pillar of health. [00:42:05]

Payman Langroudi: Um, so let’s keep going step by step. So you start noticing some of these signs and [00:42:10] symptoms. Yeah. You look for the other stuff that might need referral. Yeah. They filled out a form [00:42:15] and all of that. Yeah. What do we do as far as treatment [00:42:20] from a dentist side?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. From a dentist. So if you’re. So it depends on what stage the child’s in. [00:42:25] Yeah. Because if they’re kind of in their mixed dentition. Um, and you know, they’re adult, you know, the adult teeth are starting to [00:42:30] come through now then I would probably at that point and I can see this crowding, there’s not enough space for like the [00:42:35] twos or threes to come through. Then at that point, I would refer to an early interceptive orthodontist. [00:42:40] So we have Doctor Yasmin George who works for us. She’s amazing. I know a few, you know doctor [00:42:45] she’s amazing. There’s lots you know doctor Stefan Decker there’s a few early interceptive orthodontists [00:42:50] who will try and expand the palate at that point to then optimise, optimise [00:42:55] the space the teeth to come through, but also open up, you know.

Payman Langroudi: With a with a device. So that’s a [00:43:00] device maxillary.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Um expansion.

Meghan Chard: Expansion. Yeah. Um so at that point [00:43:05] and then, you know, you let the teeth come through and then, you know, hopefully there’s more, there’s less, less crowding [00:43:10] less need less chance of needing teeth taken out. So that’s obviously amazing. Um, [00:43:15] so it depends on what.

Payman Langroudi: What age group can you do that in. Rapid maxillary expansion.

Meghan Chard: I think I mean [00:43:20] it depends. It depends on what what your sort of um I mean I’m not an expert. [00:43:25] Can I just point out on this. You know, I’m obviously learning as well.

Payman Langroudi: As you send it to them and they.

Meghan Chard: Said to them, yeah, but I mean it depends [00:43:30] on what it depends on the nature of the child. You know, I think if you’re, if your child’s really compliant, then maybe [00:43:35] five, you could even do it from. Yeah, but I think usually 7 or 8 is probably a good age because they’re kind of [00:43:40] a bit more aware and a bit more compliant at that point. Like my daughter is going to go for it. I’m going to get her a expanded. [00:43:45]

Payman Langroudi: Much of intercepted you. I don’t know if you know this, but how much of interceptive orthodontics [00:43:50] is airway led and and how much of it is actually like alignment [00:43:55] led.

Meghan Chard: Or linked though. That’s the thing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But but but when, when they see a patient or [00:44:00] orthodontists onto the airway question.

Meghan Chard: Are orthodontists in general. Yeah. [00:44:05] Um, I mean I don’t want to speak out of turn or anything like that. So, um, I think [00:44:10] it’s becoming more and more commonplace. Yeah. But I think the issue is the NHS is so like integrally [00:44:15] tied into orthodontics that it’s tricky.

Payman Langroudi: You can’t get any of this on the [00:44:20] NHS.

Meghan Chard: You can’t know. That’s the thing. Um and it’s really tricky because, you know, I think if money [00:44:25] was no object and in an ideal world and we lived in an ideal world, you know, all children [00:44:30] would be assessed by 6 or 7. And then in America they do that. You have your first orthodontic orthodontic assessment [00:44:35] by seven. So in the UK, that’s what I would, you know, I would love to see happen, but [00:44:40] there isn’t the funding for that. That’s the issue. Um so orthodontists hands are tied. Um and then the [00:44:45] issue is even if you do expand the arches, they may still need orthodontics later. So it’s [00:44:50] quite expensive. Um and again, not everyone can afford that. But in an ideal world, I [00:44:55] think you would start early, expand as much as you can, and then hope that everything [00:45:00] you know is optimum and you don’t need people. Children don’t need extra well or less. Children [00:45:05] need extractions and things like that.

Payman Langroudi: I guess it depends on the percentage of those that actually do benefit. [00:45:10] Yeah, that would make the big difference as to whether or not you’d sort of screen everyone. If [00:45:15] we’re talking from the alignment perspective. Yeah. But the airway perspective.

Meghan Chard: From the airway perspective, because I think.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:45:20] much more compelling.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, 100% because it’s, it’s wellbeing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: It’s like a, it’s how [00:45:25] your, it’s your body, you know, it’s, you know, by just nasal breathing alone, you get 18% more oxygen. [00:45:30] So, you know, oxygen is like it’s your powerhouse, right? It’s your energy source.

Payman Langroudi: Um, so [00:45:35] last week I was, I was, I was in Sweden and, um, our business [00:45:40] development manager gave me one of those stickers to put on my nose.

Meghan Chard: Oh yeah.

Payman Langroudi: To open my nostrils. And [00:45:45] I had the best night’s sleep ever. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah. I got on Amazon and bought, like, 100 of them. Um, [00:45:50] is that a thing?

Meghan Chard: I’ve not. Do you know what.

Payman Langroudi: Is.

Meghan Chard: That? No, I think it is. I mean, [00:45:55] I’ve never used them because I feel I’ve got quite good nasal. Yeah. Like patency I suppose. [00:46:00] Um but I. Yeah. People swear by them and I’ve mouth taped a few times. Um I’ve [00:46:05] quite often I mouth tape not every night because sometimes I’ve got that many lotions and potions on [00:46:10] my face. It won’t stick to my oils. Um, you know, mouth [00:46:15] tape.

Payman Langroudi: Kids, do you ask, do you tell parents that they should do that?

Meghan Chard: I don’t know. I mean, I wouldn’t tell anyone to do that [00:46:20] because it’s like I just but but it.

Payman Langroudi: Seems a bit.

Meghan Chard: Much. I’ve done it on my own kids. Oh. Have you? That’s my kids and that’s my [00:46:25] responsibility. Yeah. Um, but I won’t tell anyone else’s. You wouldn’t. I wouldn’t do it in a dental professional Like [00:46:30] capacity. No way. Because I just think like. But even you can, [00:46:35] but I wouldn’t.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. If not us, who who’s going to do it?

Meghan Chard: No, I know, but I think there’s so much like, you [00:46:40] know, like you need to make sure, you know, Nick can easily breathe. And, you know, there’s all this, like, what if they’re sick in [00:46:45] the night and, you know, all this sort of stuff. But I mean, I’ve, I’ve done it with my kids. Um, [00:46:50] and it’s been fine. And I, and I know people who have done it with their kids and they’ve had really positive responses [00:46:55] from it. Um, but I as a dentist, not saying that, you know.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:47:00] get it.

Meghan Chard: And that’s just my personal sort of thing.

Payman Langroudi: And so tell me about the association with this, with [00:47:05] this product, what in what capacity are you associated?

Meghan Chard: So kind of a consultant for them in a way. [00:47:10] Yeah. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And how did it come about?

Meghan Chard: I know it’s a bit random, but [00:47:15] basically so, you know, it kind of all started, I did a snoring course when I, you know, a couple of years ago [00:47:20] for adults. So I’ve always kind of been interested in the airway space. And I’ve known Doctor Yasmin [00:47:25] for a while. In fact, Simon had his first job with Yasmin. Oh, really? And so we’ve [00:47:30] always known she’s been into early interceptive orthodontics and how it’s kind of linked with like bedwetting and things like [00:47:35] that. So I’ve always found that whole thing really interesting. And then I read Breath by [00:47:40] James Nestor. Have you read that?

Payman Langroudi: Well, yeah, we had someone on who was talking a lot about it. I haven’t read it. Oh.

Meghan Chard: Jamie, [00:47:45] you probably have. Jamie. Anyway, um, it’s an amazing book, I love it. I’ve read it several times. It’s [00:47:50] really, it’s fascinating. Um, and so I’ve kind of got into that. And then my second, my [00:47:55] middle child is a thumbsucker. So like, you know, it kind of stresses me out as a dentist [00:48:00] because I have no control over it. I’ve tried everything and I can’t get him to stop it. And his palate is so high, [00:48:05] narrow, and his teeth are like, he’s got an anterior open bite and his teeth are crowded at the front. And I and I’m [00:48:10] like, I know too much.

Payman Langroudi: I know.

Meghan Chard: Too much. I wish I didn’t know as much. So it causes me [00:48:15] a lot of stress. Um, anyway, we were um, in Portugal about two years ago [00:48:20] and um, we went for lunch with Miguel, and Miguel suddenly went for lunch with Miguel and his family. [00:48:25] And my son, um, was sucking his thumb.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: And we were talking, you know, about airways [00:48:30] and things like that. Um, and then and I was saying I was interested in and actually Miguel’s been [00:48:35] involved with this company, um, for a while and he was saying, oh, this company’s amazing. My children are [00:48:40] wearing this device. It does this, it does that, you know, and he’s.

Payman Langroudi: So ahead of his time, isn’t.

Meghan Chard: He? I know he’s yeah, [00:48:45] he’s very inspirational.

Payman Langroudi: I feel like we’re all going to be doing dentistry. Like Miguel’s been doing like in 20 years time [00:48:50] or something. Exactly.

Meghan Chard: He’s going to be doing it in a rocket or something then. Um. [00:48:55]

Payman Langroudi: And so his kids were on the same device.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. And so he got me, he kind of [00:49:00] introduced me to the CEO, um, Leslie of B boy. And they’re called.

Payman Langroudi: An American company.

Meghan Chard: An American company. [00:49:05] They’re called Atherton. And actually Leslie is the daughter of the founder and he’s [00:49:10] a professor, Professor Burgess. And he was a specialist orthodontist. So he designed he created these [00:49:15] in the 1960s. Um, and he, you know, he studied like cephalometric cephalometric [00:49:20] radiographs, like the growth of children. Like he really knows what he’s talking about. So he created these [00:49:25] appliances. And then he’s kind of it’s a family business. And I just love their ethos. Like they genuinely do [00:49:30] really care. And they, you know, they, they like, they’ve been evolving this appliance over the last [00:49:35] however many decades. And so I kind of really aligned with their values, um. [00:49:40]

Payman Langroudi: Different ones. Or are they all the same appliance?

Meghan Chard: There are different appliances. So [00:49:45] there’s, there’s some, there’s a habit. The one that I’m sort of like trying to educate people on is a habit [00:49:50] corrector. Mhm. Um, and there are several different types, um, different brands [00:49:55] available. Um, I’ve chosen, I think, uh, b boy is [00:50:00] um, is different to anything else in the market because it’s got myofunctional therapy inbuilt [00:50:05] within the device. Whereas with other devices, you need to have myofunctional therapy exercises alongside [00:50:10] it, which is not necessarily a bad thing. You know, it is good to have myofunctional therapy is, is really, really important. [00:50:15] But at the same time, you know, um, compliance is really, I know that I personally, [00:50:20] I’m so busy with my kids and my life that I just, I’ve got homework to do this and that. It’s like [00:50:25] another thing to think about, and I get that. And whereas so when it’s inbuilt within the device, when [00:50:30] the child is wearing it at night and they’re swallowing hundreds of times a night, they’re doing these little kind of myofunctional [00:50:35] therapy exercises. So that’s why I think it’s quite unique.

Payman Langroudi: It’s kind of a mandibular advancement.

Meghan Chard: It’s [00:50:40] not advancement. It holds. It’s a class one. It holds the child, but it stops it from slipping backwards. [00:50:45] So hold it in a class one position and then it encourages more forward growth, [00:50:50] which is better for the airways.

Payman Langroudi: And encourages the tongue up.

Meghan Chard: It puts the tongue up and it encourages the tongue [00:50:55] to swallow in the right way as well, which is which is really important because the tongue.

Payman Langroudi: And that itself [00:51:00] makes expansion of the.

Meghan Chard: Tongue. The tongue is like nature’s natural palate expander.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:51:05]

Meghan Chard: So when you’re swallowing, it’s such a thick, heavy, strong muscle that when you’re swallowing properly, [00:51:10] it kind of that continuous light pressure helps to.

Payman Langroudi: And how long, how long does the treatment last? How [00:51:15] long does it take? How many months do they have to wear that?

Meghan Chard: Well, I think they say treatment is kind of well, [00:51:20] they say like you need to wear it about for a year or so, but, um, it kind of depends. [00:51:25] You know, it depends. It’s not every child is different and some lips are really flaccid and, [00:51:30] but even then it’s kind of like even after a year or so, the child gets such benefit [00:51:35] from it and feels like they’ve had such a good night’s sleep from it. It’s kind of really comforting.

Payman Langroudi: Oh they continue.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. They continue [00:51:40] to wear it because it’s like it’s directing everything. It’s still helping. Uh, you know, it’s helping to put the tongue [00:51:45] in the right way and direct, you know, forward growth of the airways. Um, and, um, [00:51:50] also the amazing thing about it is that it’s not custom made, it’s stock. So it’ll actually last. So, you know, you [00:51:55] don’t have to take impressions every six months. It’ll last them. So for example, it ranges from 2 [00:52:00] to 4 and then 4 to 6.

Payman Langroudi: When there is it kind of boil and bite. [00:52:05] No, no just no.

Meghan Chard: And it’s it’s made like, no, it’s not, it’s not silicone. [00:52:10] It’s not, it’s not, you know, it’s not no far, it’s no, you know, um, BPA, it’s [00:52:15] like non-hazardous. Um, again, which I think makes it different from other appliances on the [00:52:20] market, I think. And it’s made an American factory. Yeah. So basically it’s 4 to 6. And then when [00:52:25] the child’s first adult molars come through, then it’s six plus, and then that child has that appliance until [00:52:30] their second molars come through. So you can have, you can have that, you know, say the second molars come through in the 10 [00:52:35] or 12. You can have that appliance for 4 to 6 years technically. And because it’s, it’s, [00:52:40] it’s like it’s just one device, you know. So that’s why, that’s why I think it’s great because it can last them a few years. [00:52:45]

Payman Langroudi: And what does success looks like? Well, the child’s having better sleep and all that. Exactly. What does failure look [00:52:50] like? I mean, do some cases not work?

Meghan Chard: I guess compliance can be an issue. You know, you’re dealing with children so [00:52:55] compliance can be an issue. Um, and then, you know, I think so. So one study was done [00:53:00] with this device, um, on over 220 children. And [00:53:05] out of those 220 children, 75% of the cases improved, their symptoms improved. And they, [00:53:10] they investigated symptoms such as headaches, sore throats, um, bedwetting, um, [00:53:15] you know, sweating, you know, tooth teeth grinding. It was 2000 symptoms altogether, and [00:53:20] in total, of all the children and 75% of cases had an improvement, which [00:53:25] is amazing. And out of those symptoms, 38% had a 100% correction. So completely [00:53:30] went. However, 75% means that 25% didn’t notice anything. [00:53:35] So you have to always explain to parents, and I always explain to parents, look, this works in most people. Most [00:53:40] children, um, if they’ve got symptoms, obviously, if they’ve not got symptoms and they [00:53:45] don’t need it, um, but you’d make them um complete a sleep questionnaire first. So obviously [00:53:50] they have to, they have to be positive on certain things to make to, to, to show that they actually have, [00:53:55] you know, a strong signs of sleep disordered breathing. Um, and so yeah, I always explain [00:54:00] to patients to parents that, you know, in 75% of cases it’ll improve, but there’s always a, [00:54:05] there’s always a chance it might not. So you have to take the risk, obviously with that.

Payman Langroudi: And so you’ve been doing it long enough to see [00:54:10] some kids then thrive.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. You know, I’m still early on in it all. You know, I’ve [00:54:15] I’ve you know, so as I say, I’m my disclaimer is I’m not an expert. There’s people out there who’ve had [00:54:20] way more experience and things like that. But, you know, you’ve got to start somewhere. And I’m just passionate about getting the message out. And [00:54:25] do you know what I’m going to use, Simon? Use all the hard work that Simon’s done. You know, [00:54:30] he’s got his platform and you know, just just helps get the word out there basically. So, [00:54:35] um, yeah, I mean, I’ve had one, I’ve had several cases, but one particular case, um, [00:54:40] he was struggling with English, sorry, struggling with his reading and writing. Um, [00:54:45] he was very fidgety and difficulty in focusing at class. So [00:54:50] they gave him a stand up desk and he was to be assessed for ADHD. He [00:54:55] would sort of wet the bed every month. He would have sore throats, tonsillitis every couple of months, needing antibiotics, [00:55:00] time off school. Um, he, his mum would report his sleeping, [00:55:05] you know, he was very sweaty, very restless. Would knock things off the shelves up in the night, [00:55:10] wake up. Unrefreshed dark circles under his eyes. Um, and then basically [00:55:15] after like six and a half months, seven months of wearing the bee bite, um, he has had not one bedwetting [00:55:20] episode, not one sore throat. I’ve seen him for like a year and a half review now. [00:55:25] He’s never had tonsillitis since wearing the bee bite. Um, when he was having it every other month. He’s [00:55:30] not wet the bed once.

Payman Langroudi: Um and the mum, the mum’s attributing all of this to the mums like. [00:55:35]

Meghan Chard: Yes, like.

Payman Langroudi: He wakes up.

Meghan Chard: Feeling. Yeah. Honestly, I literally it makes me teary. Like he wakes up feeling [00:55:40] refreshed. He has won, uh, the headmaster’s award coming on leaps and bounds with his English, his [00:55:45] reading and his writing. I’m like, it’s incredible because I guess you’re just giving someone a good night’s sleep. Basically. [00:55:50] I’ve had another another case, for example, has had has eczema and the mums [00:55:55] tried like loads of different creams over the years.

Payman Langroudi: Steroids.

Meghan Chard: Everything, nothing worked. You know, just [00:56:00] after one month of wearing the bee bite, the kid was like, I’m less itchy. Like, isn’t that [00:56:05] mad? And again, school reports like the parents evening, normally the child’s like a bit sort of, you [00:56:10] know, not listening very well, you know. A bit fidgety, a bit distracted, really positive teachers [00:56:15] reports and things like that, you know?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I can imagine someone listening to this feeling very [00:56:20] sceptical about all this. Yeah. But at the same time, when you take it back to.

Meghan Chard: The basics of [00:56:25] what it.

Payman Langroudi: Is, a good night’s sleep for a child. Yeah, it’s completely foundational. [00:56:30] It makes sense, doesn’t it? A good night’s sleep. Water nutrition. Yeah, exactly. A bit of [00:56:35] brain and exercise.

Meghan Chard: That’s.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. That’s all a kid needs. You know, there’s those things [00:56:40] we’re talking about one of the four pillars of childhood. And then you really would [00:56:45] think anything’s possible with a better night’s sleep.

Meghan Chard: I mean, if you’re if I’m in a funky mood [00:56:50] or I feel a bit low or something, I just I just know I need a good night’s sleep. I just know I need to go to bed early, [00:56:55] get a good night’s sleep, and the next day I’ll be a different person. Yeah, it just makes you bring it back to [00:57:00] the basics. It just makes sense. You know.

Payman Langroudi: Once I didn’t sleep for two nights in a row [00:57:05] cramming for finals or something, cramming for something. It was some exam. Two nights in a [00:57:10] row. Yeah. We found these caffeine tablets if you’ve ever tried them.

Meghan Chard: The pro [00:57:15] plus ones.

Payman Langroudi: On the second night, they weren’t working anymore. And then someone, someone [00:57:20] found this, like this orange powder. That was for, like, bodybuilders. Yeah, but [00:57:25] it was, it was it kept you awake. It kept you awake. So I had that.

Meghan Chard: But were you even productive, though? I [00:57:30] mean.

Payman Langroudi: This was this was going to say the reason we did two nights in a row was because it was two exams [00:57:35] in a row. The first one, I was like, thank God, because, you know, there was no way I would [00:57:40] have passed. Yeah, I needed that night. Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Just to kind of get the last bit in.

Payman Langroudi: But the second one I [00:57:45] was, it was all surgery. And the question was differential diagnosis of a swelling in the palate. [00:57:50] Yeah, I was writing bullshit. Yeah. I knew I was writing bullshit, but I couldn’t [00:57:55] stop myself. It was almost like an inhibitory mechanism wasn’t kicking in. You know, like, you [00:58:00] know, like, I don’t know if maybe this is just me. You know, you’re driving your car and you think, should I just drive straight into an oncoming car? [00:58:05] And you think, no, no, I better not. You know that inhibitory thing? Yeah. That [00:58:10] wasn’t kicking in. Yeah, I was writing crap. I wasn’t even using like, like medical terms. [00:58:15] I was like, yeah, if you have a hot pizza and stuff.

Meghan Chard: But [00:58:20] I mean, I have either that is why.

Payman Langroudi: Two night’s sleep.

Meghan Chard: It’s like the Japanese is a form of torture.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, [00:58:25] yeah, yeah. You’re right. And then, you know, people who take their own lives often can’t [00:58:30] sleep.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And again, I’m sure there’s an inhibitory thing going on.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:58:35] yeah, I’m sure it affects everything. I want to talk about parlour. [00:58:40]

Meghan Chard: Um.

Payman Langroudi: How’s that been for you guys? I mean, it’s a I’m [00:58:45] in toothpaste, right? It’s a bloody hard business. Bloody hard. Anything that’s [00:58:50] like, you know, £10, you have to sell hundreds of thousands of them.

Meghan Chard: It makes dentistry look so much [00:58:55] like easy, doesn’t it? In some ways. Like you just do a filling. Yeah. How many, how many, how many, how many toothpaste [00:59:00] tubes is a filling?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lovely thing about a dental practice is you need about, you need to convert [00:59:05] about a thousand people’s opinions. Yeah. And you’re done. Yeah. If a thousand people love [00:59:10] you, you can have an amazing Dental practice or practice or whatever. But in a business [00:59:15] like that, literally, you need to move the market. Yeah. Um, and I [00:59:20] remember when we started the first six years were disgusting. I mean, disgusting, [00:59:25] terrible. We were literally firefighting for the whole of that time. [00:59:30]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. I can, I can, I can very much, you know, imagine relate that.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:59:35] tell me. Yeah. Tell me about that. The what [00:59:40] did you think it was going to be like before you started? What was it like as you started the, [00:59:45] the. Simon told me the moment. The moment it got into boots, he thought that was the end of it. And [00:59:50] he thought. He thought that.

Meghan Chard: Was.

Payman Langroudi: Everything’s everything’s over. He’s made.

Meghan Chard: It. Yeah yeah yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah [00:59:55] yeah yeah, exactly.

Meghan Chard: Um, do you know Simon gets his ideas? And I was kind of let [01:00:00] him go with it. You know, he gets lots and lots of ideas. Like sometimes this is kind of a bit.

Payman Langroudi: Of a it’s a massive strength, [01:00:05] by the way.

Meghan Chard: Oh, it’s amazing, honestly.

Payman Langroudi: Of yours, of yours to let him.

Meghan Chard: To.

Payman Langroudi: Let.

Meghan Chard: Him go. [01:00:10]

Payman Langroudi: Go for it. Yeah. Like you could have, you could have just extinguished that flame in a moment if you wanted [01:00:15] to. Right.

Meghan Chard: You know? Yeah. But, you know, I think that’s why I obviously love love about being [01:00:20] with Simon. You know, like, um, I feel like I’m on, like, a rocket ship, to [01:00:25] be honest. I’m strapped in and, you know, I think for me, you know, [01:00:30] you know, this has. So for me, just to be a dentist was basically my ultimate goal. [01:00:35] Right. And for me, I was like, I’ve made it. I’ve done it right. That’s like his. [01:00:40]

Payman Langroudi: Boots.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. I was happy with that. And I genuinely was so happy. I was like, right, jump through all these hoops I’ve got [01:00:45] there now. I’m so happy. I’m so proud. That’s great. And I’d be happy. [01:00:50] I would have been happy plodding along, but I would have probably lived a very ploddy life and a very like [01:00:55] autopilot life, to be honest. Um, happy, but like a bit, but not living [01:01:00] to my full, full potential. And I feel like with being with Cy, he keeps pushing [01:01:05] our like boundaries to the next step, which is amazing because now the [01:01:10] life that I’m living now is something that I could never have even imagined. Like I literally [01:01:15] am living my best life, you know? I’m so lucky. Um, and but he keeps pushing [01:01:20] even still, you know, which is a blessing and a curse in some ways. I can imagine. Um, but for me, [01:01:25] I’m just happy to go along with the ride because it’s not my mental headspace thinking about this. I’m [01:01:30] just like the OP. So if Cy has an idea, I’ll just kind of go along with it. But it doesn’t [01:01:35] like, like I’ll take one step at a time and go along with it. But I’m not, it’s not the [01:01:40] headspace for me to like, be thinking about all this, you know? Yeah. Um, so, um, yeah, [01:01:45] so my point is, sorry, I digress here. So my point is, yeah, when Cy had this idea with, you know, [01:01:50] the toothpaste. And to be fair, my caveat is like actually at uni, he did say he always wanted to [01:01:55] make his own toothpaste toothpaste. I remember like, you know, studying and.

Payman Langroudi: I was a BS just now and [01:02:00] I bet a thousand people want to make their own.

Meghan Chard: Tv. Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Doing it.

Meghan Chard: That’s exactly [01:02:05] so. Well, exactly. So when he said, you know, when he said he was going to do it, I was kind [01:02:10] of like, okay, fine. You know, I didn’t really think much of it. I just thought, you know, he’ll try it and that’s it. But [01:02:15] because he’s trying to do something else before in the past, he tries to do some smoothies, I guess, make a smoothie with his brother. [01:02:20] Do you know about that?

Payman Langroudi: I remember I met his brother, it’s.

Meghan Chard: A great name. Blends with, blends with benefits. [01:02:25] It’s quite good. And we used to do all the tastings. I know he’s got this entrepreneurial sort of [01:02:30] spirit, so I just thought, let’s just, you know, you know, I encourage it because, you know, I otherwise [01:02:35] he’ll just leave a very he’d lead a very bloody life with me otherwise. So I let him just like fulfil [01:02:40] that sort of, you know.

Payman Langroudi: But, but okay. But so then they started. But I want to get into the [01:02:45] sacrifice that, that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don’t know, every time we bring a new product out, I [01:02:50] feel like the whole year before that, and particularly the final [01:02:55] 2 or 3 months before the product comes out, this massive sacrifice. I mean, there’s [01:03:00] brain time that’s going to it. There’s missing stuff. There’s meetings where you don’t know what the hell [01:03:05] you’re talking about. Yeah. I mean, the hopes and dreams. Agony and ecstasy. Yeah, [01:03:10] that comes with it.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. So it’s honestly an emotional roller coaster.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Because you [01:03:15] have some amazing highs, like incredible highs. You also have a lot of lows. Yeah. So it is an emotional [01:03:20] roller coaster. But I’m really proud. So a lot of sacrifice. You know we’ve got three young kids. So he [01:03:25] he tries to be as disciplined as he can. But like on holiday, like you can’t ever switch off. And [01:03:30] we have that with our practice as well. We always you know, it’s hard to switch off anyway. But you have that and [01:03:35] parlour. So we’ll have to do certain things whilst on holiday.

Payman Langroudi: Credit you guys with the [01:03:40] reason why we took 80% of the plastic out of our Evo.

Meghan Chard: For what [01:03:45] what from like inspo sort of like from parlour, you mean.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but actually it [01:03:50] was you. It was me. Yeah, me. Yeah, it was you. Because we were somewhere and [01:03:55] I said, hey, you’re doing this, environmentally friendly thing, right. And then you said [01:04:00] something like, every time I throw some plastic in the bin, it makes my heart race. [01:04:05] Yeah. And I said, really? And you went, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, kids, I’ve got kids. [01:04:10] And. And when I saw I saw that up to that point, I was thinking, oh, these guys are jumping on some [01:04:15] green bandwagon. Yeah. You know, at the time I remember like green became an issue. [01:04:20]

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. There were the pictures of the, the.

Meghan Chard: The turtle and the straws and yeah. But it just kills [01:04:25] me.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s emotive. It is emotive. But but I’d seen the picture of the turtle as well. But [01:04:30] then when you you said you really feel it and, and you weren’t, you know, messing around like you [01:04:35] meant it. Yeah. And I saw that and I went, oh, shit. It’s real. Like, this is real. And then [01:04:40] we were doing the next version of evolution and we said, look, let’s take as much plastic out of it as [01:04:45] possible.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. That’s great.

Payman Langroudi: So yeah.

Meghan Chard: That’s good. Well, you know, no, I mean, I try and be as eco [01:04:50] friendly as possible at home. Yeah. Genuinely, you know, have compostable cloths, you know, like just yeah, just, [01:04:55] you know, like I buy bars of soap and, you know, cardboard, like don’t buy plastic hand soaps and, you know, just [01:05:00] try, you just try what you can, you know, that’s all you can do, really.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get to the darker part of this [01:05:05] pod.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: We like to talk about mistakes, clinical mistakes. But I kind [01:05:10] of want to. Before we do, I want to hear about what would you class as your darkest day from [01:05:15] the professional perspective in this ten year, ten years, eight years, eight years. [01:05:20] When did you.

Meghan Chard: Call it holding a practice or qualifying for 14 years. Oh, really? [01:05:25] Uh, yeah. 14 years.

Payman Langroudi: Old enough. Thank you. So, [01:05:30] yeah.

Meghan Chard: So there’s lotions and potions.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Meghan Chard: Toothpaste.

Payman Langroudi: What comes to mind when [01:05:35] when I, when I say that what the darkest days in this journey.

Meghan Chard: Um, I mean, Covid [01:05:40] is pretty bad.

Payman Langroudi: Oh yeah.

Meghan Chard: That’s pretty dark.

Payman Langroudi: So after you bought the place, right.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:05:45]

Meghan Chard: That was two years. So you still trying to find your feet? And [01:05:50] I mean the stress of that. I mean, that was quite, you know, before you knew everything, you know, once you got into the swing of [01:05:55] things, you’re right.

Payman Langroudi: But once the word furlough came.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. And like we were like, honestly, you know. Well, yeah, exactly. [01:06:00] Before furlough though. So I remember in March, we actually closed. We actually closed, decided to close the practice before [01:06:05] we were even told to close the practice because all the staff were panicking. Yeah. And we were like, we’re gonna [01:06:10] close the practice. I remember me and sign looking at our bank account being like, okay, right. How many months can we pay the staff [01:06:15] for? Like, like, how much have we got in the bank to pay the staff? And, and we were like, we’re [01:06:20] crying because we’re like, okay, we can only do a couple of months, really only two years into owning a practice. And we’re [01:06:25] like, and then you’re also like, and how, how are we going to survive? Like, what are we going to do? And, you know, furlough [01:06:30] hadn’t even been mentioned at that point. And you were thinking, oh my God. So that was really like, I remember we was [01:06:35] crying. We were just non-stop crying at that, like that day. That was.

Payman Langroudi: Hard. We had all our team up here and [01:06:40] we said, we’ve got two choices. We lose half of you or everyone takes pay cut. [01:06:45] Yeah. And they said, oh, everyone take a pay cut.

Meghan Chard: Oh that’s good.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. You know it was that was that.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Yeah. It [01:06:50] was really bad. And then furlough fellow came in and you’re like, oh my God.

Payman Langroudi: You guys had NHS income or you weren’t even sure.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, we did have [01:06:55] NHS. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You weren’t.

Meghan Chard: Sure about. No, we didn’t know about that until later.

Payman Langroudi: Income at.

Meghan Chard: That point. No, no, [01:07:00] that’s what I mean. We didn’t um you know it was fine in the end. But [01:07:05] before you knew about all that, it was totally not fine. And then there was the threat of us going to the Nightingale. [01:07:10]

Payman Langroudi: Oh of course.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. We were like having to go to the we were having all these emails saying, you’re gonna have to go in. [01:07:15]

Payman Langroudi: Such a crazy.

Meghan Chard: Time. And we were like, oh my God, we’re gonna die. Even though we wouldn’t have died because it’s Covid, it’s like, [01:07:20] you know, we’re fit and healthy. It’s fine.

Payman Langroudi: But I remember I bought these FFP, whatever, three. I remember [01:07:25] that. Yeah, I bought these.

Meghan Chard: And the fit testing and all that.

Payman Langroudi: I bought these ten masks, ten [01:07:30] for £160, £16 each.

Meghan Chard: Oh my.

Payman Langroudi: God. Yeah. [01:07:35] To give to my brother who’s a doctor. Um just to, to wear in, in hospital. [01:07:40] Yeah. He went in with one and they told him he’s not allowed to wear it because [01:07:45] everyone else hasn’t got one. And then I think it was like [01:07:50] six days later, six days later, he wasn’t allowed not to wear it.

Meghan Chard: It was.

Payman Langroudi: A complete [01:07:55] it.

Meghan Chard: Was a it was a shit show.

Payman Langroudi: But the nice thing about Covid is that that massive [01:08:00] peak after Covid.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: None of us really expected. Yeah. Was extraordinary. [01:08:05] And so when you think back to Covid, you always had that feeling as well. The nice feeling.

Meghan Chard: So sunny [01:08:10] as.

Payman Langroudi: Well. Yeah. Yeah yeah. That’s right.

Meghan Chard: Like the garden. Uh, no, but that was like, that was like one of the, that was the darkest [01:08:15] day. And then I mean, I mean, there’s been lots of ups and downs. Um, I mean, [01:08:20] you know, I can’t.

Payman Langroudi: What we like at Dental school. Did you, did you find it easy or did you find it [01:08:25] hard?

Meghan Chard: You know, I.

Payman Langroudi: Who finds it easy.

Meghan Chard: I know I find it quite hard, [01:08:30] but I was like I came from I went to a state school. So [01:08:35] I had this sort of had this sort of chip on my shoulder, to be honest with you, that like.

Payman Langroudi: An inferiority.

Meghan Chard: Complex. Yeah. [01:08:40] And I remember the first week my sister was a lawyer and she worked in bank across the road from London [01:08:45] Bridge. So I remember after the first week there was this panic. Everyone went to the library and were getting all these books out [01:08:50] and I was like, oh, I don’t know what book to get. So I literally went to the library and I got like, honestly, the worst. I don’t even know [01:08:55] what books I got, but they were like thick, thick, heavy anatomy textbooks. And I put in my bag. The [01:09:00] bag was like carrying basically a bag of bricks. And I remember panicking. And I remember like, [01:09:05] after the first week, I went and met my sister for a drink. And I remember I just sobbed and cried and I was like, I’m [01:09:10] not clever enough to be here. I’m not good enough to be here. It’s quite teary. I was like, I’m not. I’m not [01:09:15] clever enough to be here. Shouldn’t be here. Because like, I was just so not used to like all these, all this confidence [01:09:20] and like, you know, when you go to a state school and everyone else has went to private [01:09:25] school, you do have this inferiority complex, to be honest.

Payman Langroudi: So I’ve heard that before [01:09:30] from people.

Meghan Chard: So yeah, it’s like, and I’m not saying, oh, feel good private school, like it’s not like that, but [01:09:35] they have this like.

Payman Langroudi: And then you go out with the poshest guy on the planet. Yeah, exactly.

Meghan Chard: And he goes the [01:09:40] roughest girl on the, you know, you know, the, you know, the Irish, Mancunian and [01:09:45] and um but you know, so I, but it was good in some ways because it really pushed [01:09:50] me to work hard. Yeah. And you know, I, I actually graduated second in the year [01:09:55] in the end. Um, so I was really proud of myself that way. But again, like always, like I always [01:10:00] after every exam, I thought I failed it, every exam, I was crying, I failed, I failed it and didn’t fail. I got like, you [01:10:05] know, like I did really well in it. So it’s just a constant like inferiority thing that I, I’ve had [01:10:10] to kind of develop like just kind of work with and overcome.

Payman Langroudi: Um, it’s such [01:10:15] an interesting thing because my, my daughter’s about to go to a levels and she’s in this [01:10:20] French school in.

Meghan Chard: French.

Payman Langroudi: School. Yeah. In South Kensington. And by its [01:10:25] very nature, the French people who decide to come to London tend to be like hotshot bankers. [01:10:30] Yeah, yeah. So she’s been surrounded by these rich people throughout school. Yeah. [01:10:35] As I was, as I was. But then now she did an entrance [01:10:40] exam for this school for underprivileged children.

Meghan Chard: Really.

Payman Langroudi: And it’s very unlikely [01:10:45] she’s going to get in.

Meghan Chard: It’s turned around now. It’s flipped, isn’t it?

Payman Langroudi: Well, it’s very unlikely she’s going to get into that school because [01:10:50] the first four sort of qualifiers she doesn’t qualify for. Yeah. So they’ve said yeah if [01:10:55] you if you have to pay for your school meals, if you do this, if you do that, if you qualify, and then there’s a number [01:11:00] five, which is like, if you’re a complete genius, you know, and there’s like 800 to 1 trying to [01:11:05] get that one. Yeah. And we were having this discussion of, let’s imagine she gets in. Yeah. [01:11:10] It’s a very good school. They send loads of people to Oxford and Cambridge. Let’s imagine she gets in. Should she go or shouldn’t she [01:11:15] go, you know. And my wife was saying, well.

Meghan Chard: Well, because they’re kind of getting any [01:11:20] as in because it could they’re basically prioritising underprivileged over [01:11:25] intelligence.

Payman Langroudi: Well no, no there is they’re all very intelligent.

Meghan Chard: Okay. So there has to be intelligent. [01:11:30]

Payman Langroudi: Should she carry on where she is being surrounded by these super dupers banker’s children? You know, [01:11:35] those are the people who are going to inspire her. Or should she go to a school where everyone around her is underprivileged? [01:11:40] Yeah. And I was saying she’s she’s already done the banker piece. [01:11:45] Let her do the underprivileged piece, you know, to see the someone who’s got whose parents haven’t [01:11:50] been able to give him everything she’s had, who’s managed to be even cleverer than she is. And [01:11:55] but my wife was saying, no, no. Um, you know that 17, 18 is when you [01:12:00] really want to be inspired by the people around you. And for her point, it was I wouldn’t have [01:12:05] started enlightened if I wasn’t surrounded by my buddies who had conglomerates all over the world. You know, there’s this sort of question. [01:12:10] Yeah, yeah. You know, what you’re speaking to is, you know, I lived with one of [01:12:15] my partners and enlighten, you know, the guy had nowhere near the privilege that [01:12:20] I had. And he inspires me. He inspired he was top of our our class. [01:12:25] Yeah. And I was scraping through, you know. Yeah. So it’s an interesting question. [01:12:30]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. It’s difficult because you want to you don’t want to muddy cuddle your child either. Do you want to like, but [01:12:35] then you also want because I think I think um it’s [01:12:40] the connections as well are really important. I think you don’t underestimate who you know, and the [01:12:45] connections and not necessarily they give you a leg up, but like, it’s just, it’s important to say inspiration [01:12:50] or aspiration. I think, um, yeah, I don’t know. I’m not sure.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:12:55] did you get over the, let’s call it inferiority complex by coming top of your class?

Meghan Chard: Like, yeah, [01:13:00] I think I think fix.

Payman Langroudi: It for you.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, I think that, yeah. But funny enough, I won an award. So [01:13:05] they kind of give you awards, you know, once you’ve graduated, whatever. And I didn’t check [01:13:10] what the award was for. I just kind of was like, um, so I didn’t know I came second in the year by the way. Oh, [01:13:15] I see, um, I just knew I graduated with honours, whatever it was. So I didn’t know I came second [01:13:20] in the year and I received the Saunders Award and I was like, oh great. Yeah. And [01:13:25] um, it was only when I was like, what was the award for? I was like, oh, I don’t know. He like rang up for me and [01:13:30] was like, what’s the Saunders Award for? And they’re like, oh, it’s for coming second in the year. And I was like, wow, I like, you [01:13:35] know, I did not even know that. So yeah, I think that that really helped.

Payman Langroudi: Not a joke in King’s coming second. [01:13:40]

Meghan Chard: Well, well, hold on to it until I’m like. I’ve done nothing since then, but I’ve got to hold on to that [01:13:45] till I’m like, on my deathbed, you know what I mean?

Payman Langroudi: It’s a bit mad, though, that your aunt was president of Ireland [01:13:50] and you still had an inferiority complex. Is it crazy? Um, I get I get it. [01:13:55] Yeah. So your aunt could be whoever. You still have an inferiority?

Meghan Chard: Exactly. Auntie. My auntie. Like [01:14:00] I’m incredibly proud of her. Like, from where she’s come from, where she is. And what I love about her [01:14:05] now is that, you know, she’s lived in the Arizona, in Ireland, which is basically the white House [01:14:10] is a copy of it, this big, big white House in the middle of Phoenix Park. And I’ve been there like I’ve [01:14:15] stayed there. I took me there when I was dating him. I took him there because he was president for 14 years. [01:14:20] But like, she’s so down to earth. Yeah. And she like EFS and Jeff’s like, [01:14:25] she’s Irish. Obviously it’s like second language, but she EFS and Jeff’s and she’s so down to earth and, um, [01:14:30] you know, she just like would get on the bus with her like pension with her, like bus pass sort of thing. That’s what I [01:14:35] love about her. You know, they’re just like, um, yeah. Um, just genuine people.

Payman Langroudi: I encourage anyone to listen [01:14:40] to that interview that I listened to the first time I listened to, properly listened to her. I remember her being president, [01:14:45] but the first time I probably listened to it was it was a leading interview [01:14:50] with, uh, Rory, um, and Alastair, Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart. Brilliant, [01:14:55] brilliant.

Meghan Chard: She’s got some amazing stories. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So brilliant.

Meghan Chard: She was like friends, [01:15:00] not friends. Okay, let me take that back. We tried that. She wasn’t friends with Gaddafi, but [01:15:05] she’s met Gaddafi and she’s gone to stay with, um um Nelson Mandela [01:15:10] in his like villa in like Zimbabwe. She’s been there. Like the story she can tell you are unbelievable. [01:15:15] You know, when the new pope was ordained, is the Pope ordained? I don’t know, um she’s [01:15:20] Ireland, right. And that every um country’s leader was there and it’s alphabetical [01:15:25] order. So she’s Ireland. Right. And she was in between Iran and Israel. So [01:15:30] she had to be like the peacekeeper between these two people So I’m like, oh my God, [01:15:35] the stories are unreal. I bet she has got some stories. Yeah, it’s really, really funny.

Payman Langroudi: What insight have [01:15:40] you got about public life from, you know, being a being close to her?

Meghan Chard: Um. [01:15:45] What insight? She’s the queen. The queen came, you know, [01:15:50] she’s the queen around. And like.

Payman Langroudi: Honestly, surely the privacy question, I mean, that must be an [01:15:55] issue, right?

Meghan Chard: I think she’s like, I think it’s I think I think being the president of Ireland [01:16:00] is quite chilled. I think people aren’t trying out to get you. I think I think everyone likes the idea. Everyone likes [01:16:05] the Irish don’t they?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah that’s true.

Meghan Chard: I don’t know about the security side of things now. Um, [01:16:10] no, I don’t think like my cousins, they don’t have any security.

Payman Langroudi: Perfectly normal.

Meghan Chard: Oh, [01:16:15] they’re so down to earth like. Like they are like absolute jokes. Like you would not know this. They’re [01:16:20] like so clever, but like, they’re so again, effing and jeffing like it’s [01:16:25] yeah, they’re so they’re lovely. They’re really down to earth, lovely people actually. Let’s get.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s get [01:16:30] to the clinical errors.

Meghan Chard: Clinical errors.

Payman Langroudi: What comes to mind if I say, you know, from that sort [01:16:35] of black box thinking, we want to learn from each other’s clinical errors rather than in medical. [01:16:40] We tend to hide our errors because blame is such a big thing. Um, whereas if [01:16:45] we could all learn from each other’s errors, then yeah, that would help everyone. What comes to mind when I say [01:16:50] that?

Meghan Chard: Um, I mean, there’s like, there’s like the safe error [01:16:55] that I could tell, you know, that there’s a safe, there’s a safe bet that I could tell you.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, kind of, I’ll probably reject that one. And then [01:17:00] we’ll have to get to the dangerous one. But go on.

Meghan Chard: Um.

Payman Langroudi: So now that you’ve put [01:17:05] it out there, I know, I know.

Meghan Chard: Um no, well it’s not even safe, but basically it [01:17:10] was really embarrassing, to be honest with you. But you know, those CCD X-ray images, [01:17:15] CCD, right? So, you know, the sensors with the with the with the wires.

Payman Langroudi: The wires back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:17:20]

Meghan Chard: We had some of those at the practice.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: And it’s really embarrassing. But basically, I mean, you might say it’s lame. [01:17:25] But anyway, I had one patient and I was taking some X-rays on her. And normally the way my surgery was [01:17:30] positioned, I’d put the X-rays in sort of behind that kind of to the side of the patients behind the [01:17:35] patient, so that the wire was in front of me. So but on this one occasion, I [01:17:40] was like, in front of the wall, I was on the side of the wire. Right. So I put the, the, [01:17:45] the right wing in and taking a bite wing X-ray and I step over the wire, but I trip over [01:17:50] the wire.

Payman Langroudi: Tug rips the thing out of his. Does he, does he get [01:17:55] hurt?

Meghan Chard: And thank God there’s no teeth or anything. But the patient’s like are obviously in agony [01:18:00] and I’m like mortified. Um, and I was like, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. [01:18:05] And then obviously I, like sent some flowers and I just but like, it was a lady. She was so nice. I [01:18:10] wrote her a letter. I said, I’m so sorry. Like I’ve learned from it. I’m now will never do that. I’ll [01:18:15] always make sure I step this side. And she was fine. She came back and saw me as a patient, so [01:18:20] it was okay. But that was like really quite mortifying at the time.

Payman Langroudi: I like that one, but I don’t I’m not [01:18:25] gonna accept it for two reasons. Number one.

Meghan Chard: I know I don’t do you know what?

Payman Langroudi: Number one. Number one. There’s [01:18:30] nothing you could have done about that. Yeah. You know that you tripped. Yeah. Okay. You could say you had a good, good [01:18:35] relationship with her. And people who like us don’t see us. Not that she’s going to sue you for tripping. Um, [01:18:40] but number two, it was a happy ending. Yeah. I’m [01:18:45] looking for a more unhappy ending from a situation that you could have had more [01:18:50] effect on.

Meghan Chard: You know.

Payman Langroudi: I’m trying to tell me something. Something [01:18:55] around it happened in your practice. It doesn’t have to be your own error. Tell me something about [01:19:00] maybe a treatment modality that you thought was great. I used to put stick veneers on everyone’s teeth, and then [01:19:05] for six years down the line, it didn’t look so good. Like something like that. Or if you’ve [01:19:10] got it in your head, the dangerous one. Just tell them. Tell me, and then we’ll cut it out.

Meghan Chard: So. [01:19:15] Well, I mean, there’s one that keeps jumping to my mind and it’s really annoying because I’m like trying to [01:19:20] suppress it and like, forget about it. Yeah, yeah. But I’m like a really honest person. So if you ask me [01:19:25] something, I can’t lie.

Payman Langroudi: Basically, I love that too.

Meghan Chard: But you know what? Like, I’ve [01:19:30] listened to some other podcasts and I think some people have been really open about it. So I think, you know what, the whole point of the question, [01:19:35] whatever. It’s fine. And yeah, it’s quite a sad ending, to be honest with you. So it’s not really [01:19:40] it’s not light-hearted or anything, but basically I had this patient who was lovely. I’d seen her [01:19:45] for a couple of years and she was a teacher and she was about to retire. And, [01:19:50] um, she had this really niggly tooth, a lower right six, uh, [01:19:55] had a furcation involvement. She had a little bit of perio ongoing, so she’d see the hygienist regularly. [01:20:00] And this lower right six had a root treated as well. And [01:20:05] she was getting like aching and pain a little bit around there and a little bit of swelling around the gum. And [01:20:10] it was ongoing for like probably a year or so. And like, you know, I kept trying to clean it and like, give it some, give [01:20:15] her some antibiotics didn’t really seem to settle, but I just didn’t think anything of it because it just because I had [01:20:20] a root canal treatment in it and it had furcation and a bit of perio. I just thought this was like an inflammatory situation. [01:20:25] Um. Oh my God, I’m feeling quite serious now actually. Um, and then [01:20:30] she went away and then it bulged [01:20:35] it like fungating essentially. Yeah. And um, and essentially, [01:20:40] uh, she came back and it was a squamous cell carcinoma. And um, basically [01:20:45] even at that, even at that point, it kind of gave it a little bit, but I still was [01:20:50] so like, sure of my, so I’ve seen squamous cell carcinomas before and I’ve referred [01:20:55] before, like white patches under the tongue and things like that.

Meghan Chard: But this was like just really threw me because, [01:21:00] because it was treated and it had furcation and a bit of perio just thought it was inflammatory. [01:21:05] So even then, I still didn’t think it was like, like cancer, the [01:21:10] big C and, um, one of my colleagues like, no, it definitely is an urgent referral. And anyway, um, [01:21:15] I felt really bad because she’d like built like she trusted me in what I, what I thought it was, I thought it was just [01:21:20] like a infection. And anyway, it turned out to be squamous cell carcinoma. And like her husband [01:21:25] basically sent me a really like. Like a really angry letter. Understandably, because she’s about to retire this person. [01:21:30] Um, and he sent me a really angry letter being like, you know, he basically thought [01:21:35] I was like incompetent essentially because I was quite young, young dentist. Um, and, you [01:21:40] know, I was like, so I literally when I found out I was like the worst day because I literally, I [01:21:45] literally, I thought I’d killed this person and, you know, like, I don’t know what [01:21:50] happened to her. In the end, she went and got her jewellery, but I never knew what happened to her. Um, but [01:21:55] I remember just crying because I felt so guilty, um, that I’d, like, missed [01:22:00] this thing. Sorry.

Payman Langroudi: It’s easy to, it’s easy to miss.

Meghan Chard: And.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:22:05] easy to miss.

Meghan Chard: But, you know, anyway, I wrote him a letter being like, I’ve literally, I’ve [01:22:10] literally got a letter from another patient saying I’ve saved his life because I’ve referred so early. I caught something so [01:22:15] early and I’m. And I’m and I, and I rate myself an oral medicine. I’m quite like Simon always gets me in for [01:22:20] oral med. Format. Quite good with oral med.

Payman Langroudi: But it’s easy to miss. It’s easy to miss.

Meghan Chard: There’s no doubt about that.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:22:25] there’s no doubt about that. And what a brilliant one to bring up. Yeah, because that is important, [01:22:30] isn’t it? That and the way you talk about it is very, very clear. As soon as you said endo and [01:22:35] you said perio, what’s going off in my head is perio endo perio endo lesion. [01:22:40] Not for a second did I consider you were going to say this. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, [01:22:45] but but the letter. Yeah. I stopped practising 14 [01:22:50] years ago or something and still a letter where someone sort of questioned my [01:22:55] intent.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Still sticks with me. And it was, it was nothing like this, [01:23:00] but that, that question of, you know.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, yeah. It’s your intent.

Payman Langroudi: Your intent is completely [01:23:05] there.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s easy to miss. And yet a patient thinks that and that can hurt. [01:23:10]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. I mean, I wrote him a letter back and nothing ever happened from it. And, you know, um, [01:23:15] and I obviously said sorry, but I didn’t I said like, you know, she was a non-smoker. She didn’t drink alcohol. [01:23:20] She was none of the risk factors. But yeah, anyway, that was like, that was like [01:23:25] the darkest clinical day for me. Um, and then, you know, since then I’ve referred patients [01:23:30] where the teeth have like lost bone and like, I’m like, oh my God, that’s definitely cancer. And it’s like, no, it’s just perio, [01:23:35] you know, anyway, you know, but yeah, I got caught out at that time and um, yeah, really, really [01:23:40] sad story really.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re really brave to share that I really do and well [01:23:45] done for doing it because honestly, honestly, that you sharing that can save another life. You [01:23:50] know, 10,000 people are going to listen to this. Yeah, 10,000 dentists are going to listen to this. And [01:23:55] all of them are now going to be looking out a little bit more. Yeah. For that. And you [01:24:00] know, it’s weird that we learn from our own mistakes. You know, next time you’re going to think [01:24:05] about that thing more. But we can learn from each other, right? Yeah.

Meghan Chard: That’s it. You know, you know, like if [01:24:10] you read that, um, that book black box thinking where like actually pilots share [01:24:15] all their errors.

Payman Langroudi: This is about that.

Meghan Chard: You know, they share all their errors and actually, like medical professionals are [01:24:20] so scared to like be sued or be blamed that they have to like, not hide them, but they won’t share them with other people [01:24:25] because, you know, they’re embarrassed or ashamed about.

Payman Langroudi: You know, there’s a really famous one, isn’t it, about [01:24:30] the big, uh, plane crash where the junior guy could tell [01:24:35] that what the captain was saying was going to cause a crash, but he was junior and [01:24:40] the captain was very senior. And the learning from that was that if you’re a junior, you have [01:24:45] to say it. If you think you know, the captain said. Right. Engines full ahead. Yeah. And he kind of went, are [01:24:50] you sure? And then he just shut up. And that was recorded. And the flight recorder was it. And then they spread that [01:24:55] around the whole pilot community. Yeah. That doesn’t matter how junior you are. You know.

Meghan Chard: You’ve got a concern.

Payman Langroudi: Kind of like [01:25:00] safeguarding. Yeah. It doesn’t matter how small. Yeah. How little. You think it might [01:25:05] be a problem. Bring it up. Yeah. You won’t get in trouble. Basically. You know, that. That sort.

Meghan Chard: Of thing. I think it’s [01:25:10] so important. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Super important that we talk about these things super important and [01:25:15] you know, the way you feel is totally normal and missing it is totally normal. Let’s [01:25:20] face it. You know, we mustn’t punish ourselves about missing something like that in [01:25:25] that situation. No, thanks for doing that. So going [01:25:30] forward, I bet Simon’s got a plan to open 100 of these practices. [01:25:35]

Meghan Chard: Going, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think.

Meghan Chard: Well, strap yourself into [01:25:40] the rocket.

Payman Langroudi: Has that be the question?

Meghan Chard: Yeah I think.

Payman Langroudi: Are you going to get a second one.

Meghan Chard: I think we will. [01:25:45] Yeah. I think we’re just you know like our youngest is not even two. It’s one. You know I think we’re just trying to. But [01:25:50] yeah, I think it’s definitely something we want, we want to do.

Payman Langroudi: Um, and 20 like, [01:25:55] is that the way I bet he’s thinking like that.

Meghan Chard: Probably, you know, it’s like, I mean, one at a time [01:26:00] to be fair.

Payman Langroudi: Um, it’s not though, is it? I mean, you could go for private equity. You could, you know, you could. [01:26:05]

Meghan Chard: Yeah. I mean, it’s the thing is one year to the next so [01:26:10] much changes. Yeah. So you know we’ll see.

Payman Langroudi: But your operations you’re working on today?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. [01:26:15] I’m like, how much, you know? Um, but yeah, I think so. I think so like, like definitely in the future, [01:26:20] nothing immediate, but yeah, definitely. I think in the future, I think I would aspire to have more.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:26:25] you’re Catholic.

Meghan Chard: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: Do you believe in God?

Meghan Chard: You’ve [01:26:30] got a few times on your podcast haven’t you? Do I believe in God? Um, not [01:26:35] as like a not like I believe in something. I believe in a higher power, I think, but [01:26:40] I don’t believe like in a man made religion that makes sense. Like I believe in [01:26:45] like a collective, like a collective kind of like.

Payman Langroudi: Oneness of humanity [01:26:50] and everything.

Meghan Chard: And like connected to everything, like nature and the universe and energy and like, you know, we’re [01:26:55] made of stardust.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah.

Meghan Chard: Like there’s more. I, I believe in something. [01:27:00] I’m not an atheist. Um, and so I just think there’s so much we don’t even know. Like I can [01:27:05] sense when someone comes in and there’s something not right. I can sense that. I mean, it’s proven there’s like neuro [01:27:10] you’ve got like a sort of force field around you and your energy is sort of mixed. And there’s some [01:27:15] people that your energies really combine with and some that you don’t. Like the what is that about? Like it’s [01:27:20] got to be something bigger.

Payman Langroudi: But then but were you brought up as a Catholic.

Meghan Chard: A Catholic, and went to church until [01:27:25] I was 18 every.

Payman Langroudi: Sunday. Do you remember a moment when you sort of thought, screw this? Like, I’m [01:27:30] not going to go into I’m not going to go after organised religion?

Meghan Chard: Probably not.

Payman Langroudi: I think [01:27:35] not that late.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. I [01:27:40] mean, my parents, my mom especially has very strong faith. She prays like every day.

Payman Langroudi: My wife does.

Meghan Chard: Um, [01:27:45] and I love that. And I think I’m a bit jealous, really, that she’s, like, so strong in her faith. Um. For [01:27:50] me, um. Yeah, I went to church until I was 18, mainly because I had to.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:27:55]

Meghan Chard: I was forced by my parents, um. And Easter. [01:28:00] Oh my God. Thank God when I got to uni, the Easter celebrations, I didn’t have to do any more because there’s so [01:28:05] many church ceremonies. There’s like Good Friday is about three hours long. Then there’s like Easter [01:28:10] Saturday, Easter Vigil, then there’s Easter Sunday. Oh my God.

Payman Langroudi: So I [01:28:15] went to a Catholic school for three years.

Meghan Chard: They really know how to.

Payman Langroudi: Like.

Meghan Chard: Really long things out, don’t they?

Payman Langroudi: And [01:28:20] long ceremonies as well.

Meghan Chard: Oh, you know, I just think, you know, the.

Payman Langroudi: Buttons up a little bit. Buttoned [01:28:25] up, you know, like. Yeah, it’s not fun.

Meghan Chard: Chanting and chanting and up and down. It’s about chanting.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not supposed to be fun.

Meghan Chard: You don’t [01:28:30] need to change it up a little bit. Yeah. But I do believe I do think we’re missing. I do think religion and [01:28:35] community is what we’re missing in today’s society. I think a lot of young people are lost now because there’s no sense of [01:28:40] community, and it’s all very much about themselves. And what do I want and what do I need, which I think that was that’s our issue. I [01:28:45] think, you know, decades ago is very much like the community, you know, the bigger [01:28:50] picture. So I think that’s what we’re missing now. So I think there’s.

Payman Langroudi: So you’re kind of alluding to what used to go to [01:28:55] church on a Sunday. Yeah. And you’d meet your your community there. Yeah. And there [01:29:00] was a warmth and a society there. Yeah. That people haven’t got now, which is true. Like, [01:29:05] I don’t really know my next door neighbours. Really?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. It’s really sad, isn’t it? Everyone keeps [01:29:10] themselves now and then. Then we’ve got like, loads of loneliness as well. So I think we’re missing [01:29:15] something there. Um. But am I religious? Um.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not.

Meghan Chard: Spiritual. [01:29:20] You know what I mean? I feel like energies, but then.

Payman Langroudi: Okay, but you know how it’s, it’s kind [01:29:25] of helpful to be religious sometimes, right? When someone passes away. Yeah. You [01:29:30] feel like.

Meghan Chard: It helps you to process death and what it means and things like that.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Well, you know, there’s lovely things like going to a better [01:29:35] place or looking down on me or all of these things. Do you still have those sort of feelings [01:29:40] or have you become like me where I think, oh, when someone dies, they’re dead? And that’s a [01:29:45] terrible thing, right? Because.

Meghan Chard: No, I do believe in ghosts. I do believe in spirits. Spirits?

Payman Langroudi: Do you believe in karma?

Meghan Chard: Um. [01:29:50] Kind of. Yeah. Well, I kind of believe that, you know, because [01:29:55] I know I just listened to a podcast for you saying like, is it selfish? You know, like you’re being nice, [01:30:00] you have good energy back. But I just think it’s more harmony, you know? So I think, yeah, I do kind of do [01:30:05] believe in karma. And I think like you kind of get what you give. And I think if you’re not always, obviously, because [01:30:10] sometimes life is unfair and things happen that you have no control over. Um, and [01:30:15] I don’t necessarily believe in fate. Sometimes I don’t know, I don’t know how I believe in fate because, you know, I just think the children and, you [01:30:20] know, Gaza, like that’s not their fate. I don’t know, but I, um, [01:30:25] I, yeah, I kind of deal in good energy. I believe in good energy and bad energy. And I think if you’ve [01:30:30] got bad, bad energy, it’ll come around in a different way because of what you put out to the world. If you’re like positive [01:30:35] and you’re kind.

Payman Langroudi: Practically, yeah.

Meghan Chard: Then, you know, if you’re smiling at someone, yeah, they’re gonna smile [01:30:40] back to you. It’s that kind of thing. If you’re, if you’re growling at someone, you know, that’s it’s that kind of reciprocation. [01:30:45] I think. So, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I do see you talking about the future. [01:30:50] You and Simon sort of carried on the practice from his parents. Do you feel like you [01:30:55] guys are kind of looking to pass whatever businesses you [01:31:00] do onto your kid? Do you think of it that way, or would you like if someone came along and said, here’s [01:31:05] 20 million, you’re going to leave? Because I don’t know if you listen to the episode with Anushka. No. Dental [01:31:10] she’s she’s on 43 practices now.

Meghan Chard: 43 wow.

Payman Langroudi: And, [01:31:15] and three kids.

Meghan Chard: That’s what I mean. I’m like, how, how do you go from. That’s what I mean. It’s like, it can’t be. I, [01:31:20] I can’t imagine it, but I’m like 1 to 2 must be the biggest step.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. 1 to 2 is huge.

Meghan Chard: Because [01:31:25] then I’m like, how do people I meet people all the time and they’re like, yeah, I’ve got three, I’ve got five. And I’m like, what? [01:31:30]

Payman Langroudi: But I’m, I’m constantly telling people not to go from 1 to 2 until they’ve squeezed everything [01:31:35] out. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, even if you want to own two or 3 or 4, you should be sweating [01:31:40] those assets. You know, if if your practice isn’t open seven days a week, then what you’re [01:31:45] doing going from 1 to 2. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Keep one away. Yeah. And late hours and all that. Yeah. I [01:31:50] know it’s hard. I know it’s hard. I’m talking like I own a practice.

Meghan Chard: I know, I know, I know, yeah. [01:31:55]

Payman Langroudi: But you know sometimes I go to places right. There’s plenty of space for redevelopment. Like you added those rooms and [01:32:00] they’re talking about the second practice and there’s a vanity.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, there is an ego and ego. [01:32:05]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. So so so how do you think about succession?

Meghan Chard: Do you know my [01:32:10] kids are, you know, very young, you know, so we’re not we’re not you know, what if they were a bit older? I mean, they’ve they’ve said they wanted [01:32:15] to be a dentist, you know, but, you know, they but also, like my middle one said, he wants to be a T rex when [01:32:20] he’s older. So you’ve got to take that with a pinch of salt. Um but you know our second [01:32:25] he lines things up. He’s very everything’s, you know, I think he’d be a very good cosmetic dentist. Um, [01:32:30] but no, there’s no pressure. But if they wanted it to be then. Yeah. Um yeah. I mean, [01:32:35] but they’re so far away from that actually being a genuine like question that like, it’s [01:32:40] not really something we need to think about right now.

Payman Langroudi: The weird thing is though, yeah, that often they don’t know what they want. [01:32:45] I mean, my son did, but my daughter didn’t at all.

Meghan Chard: Well, why would you like [01:32:50] 16 to 18? I think it’s reasonable. Like you should almost do it how the Americans do it, to be honest. It’s like do [01:32:55] an undergrad, see what you like. But you know.

Payman Langroudi: How did you end up in dentistry? Was it your uncle? [01:33:00]

Meghan Chard: Well, indirectly. So. You know, we lived in Manchester a [01:33:05] lot, and. And between Ireland and Manchester. But like. I didn’t see my Uncle Martin that much. Like we only [01:33:10] saw him occasionally. So he didn’t have like a direct, a direct influence, but it was more. I knew that he was [01:33:15] a dentist and to be honest, we went to visit his house in Ireland. They were even there. They were [01:33:20] off because like Mary obviously had a big political career before she became a the president. We [01:33:25] went to their house and had a big harp in the hallway.

Payman Langroudi: Was it Mary’s husband? Who’s the dentist?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. [01:33:30] Oh I see. Yeah. Okay. And, um, we went to the house, an amazing harp in their hallway and, like [01:33:35] a beautiful house. And, like, you need to put two and two together, you’re like. Mm. You kind of just work things [01:33:40] out a little bit. Like, you know, we didn’t have a half in our house. There was no space [01:33:45] for half in our house. But so, you know, um, I think, yeah, I think, um, [01:33:50] and then I always like, you know, I always had, like, I know it sounds lame, but I always had a good experience going [01:33:55] to the dentist as a child. I never had braces as a child. So I was quite fortunate that way that my teeth were quite aligned [01:34:00] and.

Payman Langroudi: There are loads of people become a dentist because they love their orthodontists.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Really? [01:34:05]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Meghan Chard: Because you spend so much time there. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah. Weird. And then do you know what I, I never [01:34:10] even thought I could do it because I was always a bit like average in the class. I was never like, you know, I was like just in the middle and [01:34:15] um, for my GCSEs, I did really well. And like, that was the first time I was like, oh [01:34:20] my God, I actually could do, I actually can do this. So, um, and then [01:34:25] just, you know, you kind of think, oh, and actually I was told in my careers by the careers person at college that I couldn’t do dentistry [01:34:30] because I didn’t have the right subjects. So I did biology, chemistry and performing [01:34:35] arts because I really, I at least love acting and singing and dancing. And I did that as an A-level. [01:34:40] And then they said I wouldn’t be able to do it. And I thought, I’ll try [01:34:45] anyway. And actually it is a perfect, it’s a perfect actual, um, compliment [01:34:50] because it’s communication and it’s like kind of showing up and being a persona and making a patient [01:34:55] feel welcome. And so actually, yeah. Anyway, I got in the Kings obviously felt it was [01:35:00] suitable and I got in. But yeah, so I just kind of jumped the hoops and that’s kind of, you know how I got in really. [01:35:05]

Payman Langroudi: I know this is really hard to imagine for you now. Yeah. But just for the sake of the argument, [01:35:10] let’s say you had a day off from everyone, including [01:35:15] Simon. What would you do?

Meghan Chard: A day off.

Payman Langroudi: Like [01:35:20] no one, nowhere to report. Do whatever the hell you want.

Meghan Chard: Okay, [01:35:25] so I’d get up in the morning, I’d do some exercise. I’d probably go in the [01:35:30] sauna. I’d go for a walk. Actually, in a forest.

Payman Langroudi: By yourself?

Meghan Chard: By myself?

Payman Langroudi: Bathe [01:35:35] in the forest.

Meghan Chard: No music? No. Yeah. No podcast. Just like. Yeah, just [01:35:40] like the nature kind of, you know, that’s what I would do because I feel like I never go walking in a forest because [01:35:45] when I’m carrying a million kids and they want snacks and they want to be picked up and they want, you know, so [01:35:50] I just love to go to a forest. Um, what else I do me like a massage or a facial or something, you [01:35:55] know. Um.

Payman Langroudi: But then, but then friends or.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. [01:36:00]

Payman Langroudi: Dinners or I don’t know, drinks or like.

Meghan Chard: I mean, I mean, [01:36:05] you know, I can keep going, can I? Lovely. Okay. I thought I’m going to pick up the kids right now. So [01:36:10] I’m not picking up the kids today. Um, yeah. Then I go for like a nice boozy lunch with some friends and [01:36:15] dance in the kitchen, basically. Probably.

Payman Langroudi: What’s your favourite place in the world? You’ve been in so many places. What’s your favourite place [01:36:20] in the world?

Meghan Chard: Oh, favourite place in the world? Um, I really like Cape Town.

Prav Solanki: I [01:36:25] love Cape Town.

Meghan Chard: It’s like got a magnetism.

Prav Solanki: I love.

Meghan Chard: The mountains, I love it.

Prav Solanki: It’s got it [01:36:30] all.

Meghan Chard: It’s got it all. Love, love.

Payman Langroudi: Mum from there.

Meghan Chard: She’s not, she’s from [01:36:35] Joburg.

Prav Solanki: Okay.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. Um so Cape Town I really [01:36:40] love I mean we’ve just come back from the Maldives. That’s just a very special place. Like I just feel so [01:36:45] switched off there. Um, that’s probably like the favourite. Yeah. Favourite places basically. [01:36:50] Um, is that a bit boring I don’t know. How about you. What’s your favourite place?

Payman Langroudi: I like, I like Cape Town a lot. Yeah, [01:36:55] I like Thailand.

Meghan Chard: Thailand.

Payman Langroudi: I like the food. I like the people. And you know, there’s enough. Enough. [01:37:00] Germans and Dutch guys have gone to Thailand to find themselves a bride. And those guys, when they build [01:37:05] villas, they don’t mess around. Yeah. You know, like they build these amazing villas. You [01:37:10] get, like, amazing.

Meghan Chard: Would you go to a villa if you went there? Would you go to a hotel?

Payman Langroudi: I [01:37:15] do, yeah, I prefer Airbnb to hotels.

Meghan Chard: You know, I’ve got three young kids, so I’ve tried. We [01:37:20] tried that in October. We went and did an Airbnb. And then after a few days we were like hotel. [01:37:25]

Payman Langroudi: It depends. It depends. I went to Dental forum. Do you know about that? It’s like [01:37:30] the power room in dentistry. It’s like it’s all the all the corporates and all the suppliers. [01:37:35] Right. And then you do speed dating, right? And for us, it’s a massive deal, right? It sometimes it [01:37:40] takes months to find out the name of the human that you have to focus on to get your product into [01:37:45] some big group. Yeah. Now, now you sit with the CEO of the group, CEO of the next group, CEO of the group. [01:37:50] So it’s a really good thing to go to. Yeah. Um, but, um, why am I, why am I [01:37:55] talking about. Oh, yeah. The last time, last time we went, it was they, they got the venue got messed [01:38:00] up and they had to in a hurry. They had to get another venue and we ended up in the W Hotel [01:38:05] in Barcelona.

Meghan Chard: Oh, nice.

Payman Langroudi: And it totally whipped me up to what [01:38:10] it is to go to a cool hotel. Yeah. You know, because I’ve been I’ve been stopping going to hotels for [01:38:15] the last ten years.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And the, as soon as I got my room key, wherever I wanted [01:38:20] to go, some guy would say, show me your key, please. Room key, please. Room key please. I was like, what the hell? Why do they keep [01:38:25] checking my room key, man? And then, uh, the one day later, you [01:38:30] realise, oh, that’s why they’re checking for the room key. Because the benefits of being in the [01:38:35] hotel, like sonar was on during the time we were there and they were having [01:38:40] a massive event in the pool. There was a whole queue. The whole town was there trying to get [01:38:45] in, but your room key would just get you straight into that event, you know? Yeah. You it’s certainly understood [01:38:50] that. Right?

Meghan Chard: I love a nice hotel. Just like. Come on, just relax. I don’t want to cook. I don’t [01:38:55] want to clean. I just want to relax when I’m like on holiday.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But in Thailand and in South Africa, they [01:39:00] have cleaners in Airbnbs.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like it’s standard. Like when we were in Cape Town, the guy [01:39:05] didn’t even bother to tell us that every day a cleaner would come. He just took it for granted.

Meghan Chard: Really [01:39:10] love.

Payman Langroudi: That.

Meghan Chard: That’s the dream.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. A couple of quick fire questions [01:39:15] for you. Best lecture. What comes to mind or course if you want.

Meghan Chard: Course. [01:39:20] Well, I mean, do you know what like I’ve been, as I said before, I’ve been hiding under a rock for the last [01:39:25] eight years, you know, so clinical hasn’t been my priority. And part of me has been like, I can’t [01:39:30] what’s the point in spending money and doing a course and doing this? Because I’m literally on maternity leave and I can’t get, [01:39:35] you know, but I actually went on a really interesting, um, I attended a lecture, an interesting [01:39:40] lecture in September, a guy called Malcolm Levin kind, I think he’s a paediatric dentist. [01:39:45]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: He is. Do you know him?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Fascinating. Basically, the connection between children’s [01:39:50] teeth and their posture.

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Meghan Chard: Fascinating. And he basically analyses [01:39:55] the child, and he has these mirrors around him and a mirror on the top. And the child has to, like, [01:40:00] stand. And so you see from all angles the child’s posture and, you know, this is linking [01:40:05] it back to airways. But a child who’s got an airway issue hyperextends their neck forward. And that’s the body’s [01:40:10] way of trying to open up the airways. So quite often you’ll see these children like this. And when he corrects the bite [01:40:15] and corrects the airways, the child’s posture just naturally is more straight. Mhm. [01:40:20] What blew my mind was this one child who was sucking her thumb and sucking her thumb [01:40:25] to the side. You know, you can obviously suck your thumb in different ways. She was sucking her thumb to the side, and [01:40:30] when he got her, when he took a photo of her, just her natural [01:40:35] pose was like one leg was slightly bent and she was kind of to one side. Right? And [01:40:40] he took a photo. Then when she put her thumb in her body, Uprighted. And [01:40:45] I found that. I found that mad. I was like, so her body is doing what? The body [01:40:50] is so clever. The body knows that. Like for some reason, by putting the thumb in there, it [01:40:55] kind of aligns her body to open up the airways and, you know, make her straight. And then when you take the thumb out again, [01:41:00] the kind of postures back and everything’s all it was just blew my mind. And I think, you [01:41:05] know, we kind of, I think we should be more integrated with osteopaths because. [01:41:10]

Payman Langroudi: We do that thing, don’t they, where they put an appliance in the mouth and then suddenly the power of the arm gets more.

Meghan Chard: It’s [01:41:15] crazy. Yeah. And I think there’s so much, you know, it makes sense. It’s like the airway thing. It makes sense. [01:41:20] Like the teeth. If the bites completely out, then that’s connected to the jaw joint. The jaw joint [01:41:25] is connected to the head and the neck.

Payman Langroudi: The song of the body.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, exactly. It’s like we learnt it when we were six. [01:41:30] The spine was connected to the, you know, it’s like, um. So that just blows my mind. I think that’s [01:41:35] like, that’s what I love about what’s coming up now. I think we’re integrating it all more with the body.

Payman Langroudi: Body connection [01:41:40] has become a huge thing. It’s become a huge thing. And not before time, you know. Yeah. Um, [01:41:45] and like you say, we tend to be behind on these things in the UK a little bit. What about resource? [01:41:50] Like what comes to mind if I say what’s your favourite dental resource?

Meghan Chard: Instagram.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Is [01:41:55] there a particular account?

Meghan Chard: Um, no. Um.

Payman Langroudi: I mean like like George dentist. [01:42:00] His accounts are amazing. Yeah. I kind of stay in touch with that end of restorative dentistry [01:42:05] through him.

Meghan Chard: Really?

Payman Langroudi: That bit of it. You know, that sort of.

Meghan Chard: Um, might be him. [01:42:10]

Payman Langroudi: Or is there a book.

Meghan Chard: You know, like I’m kind of on the airway thing now. I find it so fascinating. I found, [01:42:15] um, Shereen Lim. Do you know Shereen Lim? No, she’s Australian dentist. It’s called breathe, [01:42:20] sleep thrive. That was an incredible book. It’s like breath. James Nestor, like [01:42:25] incredible book. But Shereen Lim is like more dental focussed.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Meghan Chard: And it goes through everything from like, the [01:42:30] importance of breastfeeding and why breastfeeding is really important and things like that that has like got so many, um, [01:42:35] like really interesting and like, say saved by the mouth by Katie Lee. I love that book, you [01:42:40] know, talks about, you know, like, well, the mouth body connection. So they’re kind of like, I love those books [01:42:45] basically.

Payman Langroudi: Are you on the sort of longevity kick the way Simon is? Is he is he ploughing, ploughing, ploughing drugs down [01:42:50] you every day? Yeah, we’re still.

Meghan Chard: On most nights. Honestly, I’m obsessed with the sauna and cold plunge. Cold [01:42:55] plunge is a bit more six monthly. Like the winter is not really getting that much. You might see that a bit less on the Instagram, but [01:43:00] in the summer. But it’s coming to spring now, so I’m going to have to start getting into it. No, but it is amazing. But you [01:43:05] know, Brian Johnson has said that the sauna is like the number one thing for detoxing your body. Honestly, I’m obsessed. [01:43:10] Every night I feel so good just like sweating it out.

Payman Langroudi: So what do you do before [01:43:15] bed?

Meghan Chard: For bed? Yeah, it’s really great. Just like no TV, no phone, nothing like no book. Even [01:43:20] like just being, you know what I mean? No distraction. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Just a form of meditation [01:43:25] in itself. Yeah. So how long do you spend in there? What, ten.

Meghan Chard: Minutes. And sometimes me inside, [01:43:30] like so like that’s basically our business like planning as well. Like we basically start our business out when we sauna as well, [01:43:35] but like solving all the business issues during that sauna. So sometimes it goes really quickly [01:43:40] as well, you know. But um, no, I love it. And like it just apparently it’s really good for, for detoxifying against [01:43:45] microplastics in your body.

Payman Langroudi: Really?

Meghan Chard: Yeah. So I love it. Obsessed. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Look at the [01:43:50] end of our time.

Meghan Chard: Oh, it’s been so much fun. So quick. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Final questions. Fantasy [01:43:55] dinner party.

Meghan Chard: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Three guests. Dead or alive. Who [01:44:00] you got?

Meghan Chard: I find these questions really hard to answer, but yeah. Had a little think about it. [01:44:05] David Attenborough. Right. I just think what a legend.

Payman Langroudi: Like he’s the number [01:44:10] one in the country, man.

Meghan Chard: I mean what I mean what’s going to happen. I mean I don’t even dare dare to think so. Um, [01:44:15] yeah. I mean, he’s been on the screen since I was a child, right. So I would just love to have him there. I think he’d be [01:44:20] a legend. I absolutely love him.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not the first time he’s been invited, is it?

Meghan Chard: Not really.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Number [01:44:25] two, Tara Swart. Oh. Do you know Tara Swart.

Payman Langroudi: Rings a bell.

Meghan Chard: She’s [01:44:30] a neuroscientist and, like a medical trained doctor. She’s been on, um, Stephen [01:44:35] Bartlett’s podcast a few times. Okay. I just think she’s like, so she’s neuroscience, but she’s also quite [01:44:40] spiritual. And I love how she kind of like links the two together. So that should be quite interesting. [01:44:45] And then the third one I found really hard to think about because I was going to go for like, you know, like [01:44:50] Nelson Mandela or someone, you know, someone like that. But yeah, you know, and I’ve gone for something a little bit different. I think Davina [01:44:55] McCall.

Payman Langroudi: I like Davina McCall.

Meghan Chard: She’s like.

Payman Langroudi: Like, I like, I liked it when she was [01:45:00] young and I like her now as well.

Meghan Chard: Yeah, she’s brilliant. And I think, you know, she’s really fun. I think she has a really real [01:45:05] zest for life. She like is really into fitness. I think there’s not many like 50 [01:45:10] year old like, um, kind of who’s your inspiration? Who’s your role model? I think in certain [01:45:15] ways she’s like a role model to me. So like, I think Davina would be quite fun.

Payman Langroudi: She even talks about menopause, which [01:45:20] is like super important.

Meghan Chard: Yeah. And she’s like a brain tumour recently and yeah. And I think she actually [01:45:25] got breast cancer as well. Now I know, and, but she’s like so positive and like, she’s into her fitness and she’s [01:45:30] like, just fun. I think. So yeah, I think that would be my three be a bit interesting, a bit of an interesting one. Um, [01:45:35] but yeah, maybe those three.

Payman Langroudi: I like that. What would you have done differently?

Meghan Chard: Well, [01:45:40] career wise.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Meghan Chard: Oh, no. Okay. Um, what [01:45:45] would I have done differently? I think, you know, I always wanted to, to, [01:45:50] to, to work in Australia for a few years. I really wanted to do that, like live abroad, [01:45:55] um, before we had kids and like live that life where you were earning and working in the sun [01:46:00] and things like that. But to be honest, I am Irish. So like.

Payman Langroudi: You’re kind of doing.

Meghan Chard: My skin like I’m 100%. [01:46:05] I’m not 100%, but I’m like 88% Celtic. My genetics. So [01:46:10] like, I think it’s actually like a, it’s like not really reality. I’d have been burnt. I’ve been like a red, a [01:46:15] red sweaty mess to be honest. So, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Do you like Australian?

Meghan Chard: Um. My brother lives there. [01:46:20] So yeah, I do like it’s very far away. Yeah. So I’ve been a couple of times, but, um, [01:46:25] yeah, the vibe.

Payman Langroudi: Is it more like South Africa? Yeah. Like America. I’ve never been.

Meghan Chard: It’s like South Africa, [01:46:30] South Africa kind of vibes. Yeah. It’s like really beautiful, like lots of nature walks. [01:46:35] Like everyone does their fitness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s quite and [01:46:40] quite similar culturally to like England. I would say it’s a.

Payman Langroudi: Massive, massive pleasure. I really [01:46:45] enjoyed it.

Meghan Chard: Oh, thanks for having me on. Payman. I really enjoyed it.

[VOICE]: This [01:46:50] is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one [01:46:55] on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your [01:47:00] hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav. Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks [01:47:05] for listening guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. [01:47:10] And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve [01:47:15] had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. [01:47:20]

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would [01:47:25] share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. [01:47:30] Thanks.

Prav Solanki: And don’t forget our six star rating.