Payman Langroudi: Anterior composites are an area that a lot of us have trouble with, and the [00:00:05] magic that you get from a patient where you haven’t drilled their teeth and yet [00:00:10] you’ve improved their appearance, is something that you know. The more whitening you do, the more aligners [00:00:15] you do, the more anterior composites you’ll have to do. If you’re not 100% on them, [00:00:20] get yourself on a course like Mini Smile Makeover with Dipesh Parmar. Visit Mini Smile [00:00:25] makeover.com for dates and details.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:30] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:35] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders [00:00:40] in dentistry. Your hosts [00:00:45] Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: It [00:00:50] gives me great pleasure to welcome Cheyenne Patel onto the podcast. I don’t [00:00:55] know if I’m going to call this one of the, you know, future Dentists kind of series [00:01:00] or because shines a dental student, but a bit different to most dental [00:01:05] students. It’s the reason you’re here, my buddy.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you’re having a slow day at the office and I [00:01:10] got the call, but I appreciate the invite.

Payman Langroudi: Payman fifth year of dental school [00:01:15] in Liverpool.

Shyun Patel: In Liverpool? That’s correct.

Payman Langroudi: And recently come off your BDS, a conference which [00:01:20] was unbelievable. Really, really massive, massive thing to have accomplished.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, I really appreciate that. [00:01:25] A little bit more grey and probably taking a couple years off my life, but here we are.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:01:30] where did you grow up?

Shyun Patel: Grew up in a place just outside Birmingham called Hagley. Mhm. [00:01:35] A little town and went to Kezia School in Birmingham. I [00:01:40] think a lot of dental students have actually been to that school, so yeah. Um I [00:01:45] went to that school as well, so yeah, quite a small world, but. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:01:50] did you know Tony?

Shyun Patel: Yeah, yeah, I was really, I was almost best friends with, um, his younger brother. [00:01:55] Oh really? So he and his younger brother have been to India together and Canada together and knew that. [00:02:00]

Payman Langroudi: So is he like a banker now?

Shyun Patel: Yes. He’s, uh, working at.

Payman Langroudi: Something [00:02:05] in.

Shyun Patel: Blackrock, I think. Yeah, something like that. So he’s doing really well.

Payman Langroudi: So were [00:02:10] you. Did you always know you were going to be a dentist, or when did you realise?

Shyun Patel: No. So it’s [00:02:15] a funny story. Growing up, I actually went to my GCSEs. [00:02:20] I chose German, which I turned out to be not not so good at because I was set on being an engineer. Um, [00:02:25] that was down to the fact that I love doing things in my hands. Pretty generic. And I ended up playing three instruments [00:02:30] growing up. So I thought, okay, um, engineering was, was the play for me as [00:02:35] I got older and especially going to, to quite a good school, you think you’re good at maths until you meet [00:02:40] someone that’s really, really, really good at maths. You know, the guys that introverted and can’t hold eye [00:02:45] contact but are exceptional at maths and physics. And I thought, I can’t compete with these guys. So [00:02:50] did my work experience, tried engineering and wasn’t [00:02:55] a conclusion I came to, but always been told, you know. I’ve known myself. I’m good in my hands. But I talk a little bit too [00:03:00] much. Married the two together and thought dentistry is a is a profession for me. [00:03:05] Played with the idea of medicine and just enjoyed the the autonomy aspect of [00:03:10] dentistry and the rest has kind of been been history. And yeah, so I’m loving, loving [00:03:15] the course. It’s gone gone by in a flash.

Payman Langroudi: What about the process of getting into dental school? Because my, my daughters [00:03:20] just said she wants to be a dentist.

Shyun Patel: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And looking into it, it’s much more difficult than we went [00:03:25] in.

Shyun Patel: Year by year. It gets harder and harder. I don’t know if I want to go back if I get in. I was very fortunate that [00:03:30] I got all of my offers, so I got into King’s Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool. And [00:03:35] when people say you got into King’s, didn’t choose King’s. Everyone’s gobsmacked. But um, no, I’m, I’m [00:03:40] a avid Liverpool supporter, which is why I.

Payman Langroudi: Football.

Shyun Patel: Football. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: That’s why you.

Shyun Patel: Went. That’s why I went to Liverpool. [00:03:45] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So people talk about King’s. But London [00:03:50] is not a good town for a student.

Shyun Patel: You went to Cardiff right. Yeah. How did you find that campus uni.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. [00:03:55]

Shyun Patel: Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: I love that. I went there by mistake. I mean, when you’re 17, [00:04:00] you think you know it. All right? Yeah. So I want to stay in London. I didn’t get my grades. And then Cardiff [00:04:05] said, yeah, you can come in. I missed it by one.

Shyun Patel: Very beautiful uni I’ve heard. Picturesque.

Payman Langroudi: Just that the Welsh [00:04:10] are amazing people, amazing people, fun, funny, family [00:04:15] orientated. Very very different to what?

Shyun Patel: Well, it’s what you’re saying about the Welsh people I find with the Irish. [00:04:20] But Scousers are almost not English. We say we’re Scouse, not English. Yeah, [00:04:25] yeah. And they’ve got their own community. They’ve got.

Payman Langroudi: An Irish sort of tinge to.

Shyun Patel: Them. Yeah. They’ve got North Wales and [00:04:30] they’ve got Irish and it’s a mix of cultures.

Payman Langroudi: People in Liverpool are amazing.

Shyun Patel: They’re funny, they’re kind, they’re welcoming. [00:04:35] I love Liverpool. Yeah. And um one thing for me I’ve realised that [00:04:40] we’re we’re very fortunate that people have different stress points. So I say my [00:04:45] my brother did geography at UCL and he had stress when he graduated and he was looking for a [00:04:50] job. Whereas for us, we walk into a job, but the stress comes during the ucat [00:04:55] doing the interviews, all those processes. So it was it was definitely difficult that in [00:05:00] a way. Now come to the end of my studies, to some extent, everything I’ve done [00:05:05] from primary school to secondary school has led up to this, this moment. [00:05:10] So from GCSEs and I didn’t actually do A-levels, I did something called International Baccalaureate.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, my kids are doing [00:05:15] that.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. So. Oh, I’m so sorry that they’re doing that.

Payman Langroudi: It’s they’re not doing that. They, they chose A-levels, [00:05:20] but their school does it.

Shyun Patel: Yes. It’s, um, an interesting, interesting [00:05:25] choice. But it was, it was something I wasn’t very confident of getting in. Um, [00:05:30] I applied and academia was never my strong point. But once I got an interview, [00:05:35] I’m quite comfortable in that environment. So I think it’s just understanding what they want, [00:05:40] how to convey yourself, portray yourself and, uh, fortunately got through the process. But like you said, year [00:05:45] by year, these kids are coming out like superstars. Um, but then there’s, there’s a mix because [00:05:50] you’ve got one side of the process is a lot harder. And the second side, if you look at the [00:05:55] new generation coming through, they say they’re a lot less social. So. So it’s hard [00:06:00] to marry those two up where you’ve got a harder process, but then you’ve got a society [00:06:05] that’s more and more glued to their phones and less social. And, you know, I said at the conference, we’re not in the [00:06:10] teeth business. We’re in. We’re in the people business for sure.

Payman Langroudi: For sure. And I think it’s an interesting question, [00:06:15] right? That is it that the the best students in a level [00:06:20] make the best students in dentistry and do they make [00:06:25] the best dentists compared to my time, then she wasn’t that hard [00:06:30] to get into. It really wasn’t. Yeah. A lot of the year were failed medics. Okay. Back [00:06:35] then. Um, and it just wasn’t. So you used to get pretty practical types of people [00:06:40] into dentistry, some of them good at good at communication and all that. And like you said, communication is [00:06:45] really.

Shyun Patel: The foundation of everything.

Payman Langroudi: The key skill in dentistry.

Shyun Patel: Understanding people is everything. [00:06:50] I think. I always say, um, someone could I try to explain to, to [00:06:55] a, to a patient, you could have someone come up to you that gives you a composite filling. [00:07:00] Let’s say it’s at the back and you can’t tell. And it’s a, a ten out of ten filling and someone else comes and gives you a [00:07:05] 7 or 8, seven out of ten dental filling. And if it’s functional, you’ll [00:07:10] know and I’ll know, but the patient will know. Yeah. But the patient, the guy that gave him [00:07:15] a, the patient, a seven out of ten filling, they go, how’s your holiday? How’s your family? You know, what have [00:07:20] you been up to? It’s more likely to, to be seen and be more popular and be more successful, quote [00:07:25] unquote, as a dentist than that one that’s done a fantastic job, knows all the morphology, but in [00:07:30] and out. And I think that is something that I feel that in my opinion, my generation and being [00:07:35] in dental school is something that’s not stressed upon as much. And I think something that was very integral to your generation [00:07:40] is people and, you know, psychology. And I think that’s I.

Payman Langroudi: Mean, if I had to pick [00:07:45] between those two scenarios, you know, like a seven out of ten. Technically ten out of ten communication or [00:07:50] the opposite. I definitely go for the communication guy.

Shyun Patel: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Because it’s heartbreaking. [00:07:55] We both know people who are very technically good, of course, and very bad on the [00:08:00] other side. And it’s heartbreaking, man, because the patients don’t know they’re good 100%. [00:08:05] Their staff don’t know they’re good. Yeah. And they might have the best matrixing, the best whatever it is. [00:08:10]

Shyun Patel: Definitely.

Payman Langroudi: Um, of course the best is if you had both sides for sure. Um, but [00:08:15] I don’t know, pick a surgeon based on his bedside manner rather [00:08:20] than his technical skill.

Shyun Patel: I don’t want to put disrespect. Maybe that’s the wrong podcast to say this on, [00:08:25] but you could teach a lot of people how to do dentistry, what you could teach a lot of people how to dentistry. [00:08:30] I feel like you could get someone to spend enough time with them. You know, these days.

Payman Langroudi: You think you can teach the communication side. [00:08:35]

Shyun Patel: I’m very you know, I think this goes to quite a deep philosophical [00:08:40] debate that we can go into where I was talking to my friends about how much can you change someone [00:08:45] you know, can, if I was some sort of, you know, mastermind [00:08:50] puppet master and I could take a baby from birth, could I turn them into Payman Langroudi with the right [00:08:55] inputs and outputs? And I kind of think, you know, when you think of standard deviation on a graph [00:09:00] and you’ve got a point here, and I think everyone in terms of balancing nature and nurture is [00:09:05] somewhere on a graph, and there’s only a top barrel and bottom barrel in which someone can [00:09:10] change. So I think majority of people can learn communication, but there’s an extent [00:09:15] to maybe which they naturally. Yeah, comes naturally. And I think [00:09:20] that learning communication is a lot harder than learning a skill because communication is all around [00:09:25] us. It’s people. It’s actually a lot more intricate, I feel. I think conversations now you [00:09:30] feel, I always say they’re like a tango, you know, it’s knowing where to step and when to push and when to pull. And [00:09:35] there’s some guy I used to get wrong a lot where people would say, hey, I [00:09:40] went to this place on holiday and I go, that’s fantastic. I went there and I’d talk about.

Payman Langroudi: About.

Shyun Patel: Yourself. Yeah. But it’s [00:09:45] more me trying to share the experience, but it doesn’t come across right. So you’ve got to actually, with time, learn how to [00:09:50] balance a conversation. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I think.

Payman Langroudi: I think conversations are not [00:09:55] like any other art, right? There’s a big part of it is curiosity for sure. Um, [00:10:00] but you’re right in that one of the traps people fall into is talk about themselves, you know, like [00:10:05] if any sentence starts with I is always a bit of a weak sentence, you know, most definitely. Um, [00:10:10] at the same time, it’s unavoidable as well.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. I guess it’s showing relatability. [00:10:15] Yeah. It’s an interesting concept actually. So there was a book that I [00:10:20] was reading a while ago and it was Dale Carnegie. And he goes and he says [00:10:25] the key to being successful is making friends. And the key to making friends is not to be interesting, [00:10:30] but to be interested.

Payman Langroudi: How to win friends and influence.

Shyun Patel: People, of course. And [00:10:35] I know everything about me, but I don’t know everything about you. So and I think that kind [00:10:40] of feels kind of steps into my ethos that you can learn something from everyone. And [00:10:45] I don’t know whether you find it in the dental industry, but in life you have people that kind of turn their nose up to that [00:10:50] person. I can’t learn something from this, but someone can teach how to tie their shoelaces in a different way. And I [00:10:55] just think having an open mindset that every person you interact with is almost [00:11:00] can add to your toolbox of becoming this more fulfilled, better person. I think you have more enriched experience [00:11:05] of life.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And you know, the way you’re framing it there is [00:11:10] like, in the end, it’s a successful way for yourself to be [00:11:15] interested in people. But I think there’s almost like a respect question [00:11:20] for sure that the next person walking down the street, whoever that is. [00:11:25]

Shyun Patel: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Is deserving 100% to be seen by you [00:11:30] 100%. At the same time, I know friends, people who say, look, time on this [00:11:35] planet is limited. I want to spend time with people who can, you know, push me forward. And [00:11:40] they’ve got that sort of weird outlook on things as well.

Shyun Patel: Do you feel [00:11:45] so in your journey to where you are today? I feel like you don’t know what you don’t know. [00:11:50] And I found that the things that have propelled [00:11:55] me, I’ve not even gone to places directly. Let’s say you go to a conference. Fine. It’s oftentimes [00:12:00] at the restaurant or at the bar after that, have the best conversations that propels you. So it’s. Have you found you [00:12:05] find that sometimes just that conversation you thought for the pleasure of the conversation. Yeah. Takes you somewhere you don’t [00:12:10] even realise. Yeah. I think maybe that perspective would be.

Payman Langroudi: And look, this is why I’m doing this Ministry of Sound thing. [00:12:15] Yeah, yeah. Because, um, at events. What do you want from the event? Yeah. The there’s [00:12:20] the education on the screen. Mhm. But you know, you went through Covid, we [00:12:25] can get a lot of that online. Sure. Then there’s the sort of people [00:12:30] you meet. Yeah. There’s the people you meet and the enjoyment on the day. But [00:12:35] really a key thing is, can I call you later on.

Shyun Patel: And [00:12:40] build a relationship.

Payman Langroudi: Build a relationship. If I’ve got an issue, can I call you? Yeah. And you know, right now, me and [00:12:45] you can call each other, of course, because we we’ve been to ten events together. [00:12:50] Whether that event was a party, an enlightened party, or whether it was PDSA [00:12:55] where I.

Shyun Patel: Of.

Payman Langroudi: Course, you know, we see each other enough times and you get to a point of trust and, [00:13:00] hey, give me your number and all that. But I, whoever I meet, I give my number [00:13:05] to like whoever.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, including at a conference, a first year dental student. [00:13:10] I give my number to everyone.

Shyun Patel: How do you find that? So when I see you, it’s such a pivotal [00:13:15] figure in the industry. Well, I do, you know, and, uh, [00:13:20] as well as are friends now, thankfully to say. And one thing about [00:13:25] I found following PDSA is that I’ve got this, this platform and you’ve got this platform and [00:13:30] you go from maybe not yourself, but I thought I went from being a nobody to, you know, I’ve got dentists saying, [00:13:35] you’re the most popular dental student in Europe now. Everyone knows you had dental school. And I’m like, I’m just I [00:13:40] go home and make Lego sets. You know, I’m not nothing extraordinary about me. How do [00:13:45] you balance, you know, public perception of you? So one question I like to [00:13:50] ask people and I’ll ask you now is, what do you think’s people’s biggest misconception about you? [00:13:55] You know, you interact with so many different people.

Payman Langroudi: When you say [00:14:00] people, you know, like if we’re talking work, um, people [00:14:05] first of all think if you stopped practising dentistry, it must be because you’re a billionaire. [00:14:10]

Shyun Patel: Right?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And I stopped practising dentistry 16 [00:14:15] years ago or something. Like several times I stopped, actually. We stopped. I stopped [00:14:20] for five years as soon as we started enlightened. And in that period, I [00:14:25] was losing hundreds of thousands of pounds. Like hundreds of thousands. Yeah. The first 5 [00:14:30] or 6 years we, I think we lost a good half a million back then, which was a lot of money back [00:14:35] then, you know. Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Well even now, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. But back there was a lot of money and I used [00:14:40] to have friends and people meet me and say, oh, you don’t practice anymore. And I say, no. And they think you’ve [00:14:45] made it so successful.

Shyun Patel: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Not to practice. Yeah. That’s one misconception. [00:14:50] Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Was that stopping practice from shifting focus or did you. [00:14:55]

Payman Langroudi: In the first five years there was no choice. I mean, there was so much going on. I just I just had to I had [00:15:00] partners, so they continued to practice and they were basically funding me. Yeah. In that period. Um, [00:15:05] but then I went back and I started doing one day a week, two days a week, that [00:15:10] sort of thing. And then I had a bad day one day and I said, forget it, you know? Yeah. I spoke to Prav. Yes. [00:15:15] My co-host and I said he used to be a doctor. Okay. [00:15:20] He studied in Oxford, and he became, like, top of his class and [00:15:25] then did research and then never practised as a doctor. Okay. Because [00:15:30] his brother Kailash has, um. Dental.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. He’s down around the corner [00:15:35] from me in Manchester, isn’t he?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And Caitlin Prav is a very clever guy. So Kayla said to him, look, [00:15:40] you’re a clever guy. Just find out about marketing. And so he read up a bit, found out about Google, [00:15:45] all that. And his practice went berserk. And and then perhaps I thought, I’m going to start doing this [00:15:50] instead of being a doctor. Yeah. And he’s got this very interesting story where he talks to his tutor in Oxford [00:15:55] and said to him, look, I’m thinking of going into marketing instead of [00:16:00] becoming a doctor. And the guy told him, um, definitely do it. [00:16:05] Really? Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay.

Payman Langroudi: Um, he sort of said to [00:16:10] him, look, if you if you if you want my advice, go. Yeah.

Shyun Patel: I think that about [00:16:15] life. You know, honestly, sometimes you don’t have it all figured out. And one thing that ethos I take is that I remember [00:16:20] Mark Zuckerberg said if he knew everything about Facebook before he made Facebook, then Facebook wouldn’t exist. And somebody’s [00:16:25] got to jump and figure it out on the way.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I mean, Jensen from Nvidia says the same thing.

Shyun Patel: Did he [00:16:30] say same thing? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Which is crazy, right? Because you think that’s the world’s most successful company. Sure. And [00:16:35] he said, if you knew the pain, he would never. And there’s massive pain.

Shyun Patel: Oh, of course. [00:16:40]

Payman Langroudi: You’ve got, you know, you’ve you’ve just done PDSA, right. And you can see there’s a thousand [00:16:45] moving parts.

Shyun Patel: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: And um you don’t, the profit isn’t even [00:16:50] a big part.

Shyun Patel: No.

Payman Langroudi: Of what you’re doing.

Shyun Patel: No.

Payman Langroudi: But what I’m saying to you about the first five years of enlightenment. [00:16:55] I was putting out fires left, right and centre and losing money at the same [00:17:00] time.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s painful.

Shyun Patel: It is painful.

Payman Langroudi: It’s painful. Especially as a dentist. [00:17:05] Right? Because all your friends are now buying practice.

Shyun Patel: And they’ve got a nice shiny.

Payman Langroudi: Shiny [00:17:10] car. It’s hard and it’s not like I’m I was doing it, sticking at it. [00:17:15] I had no choice. Yeah. All our houses were on the line. Yeah. It’s hard. Um, [00:17:20] but the other thing that people get wrong, especially younger dentists. Yeah. They think [00:17:25] there’s this sort of like, master plan kind of thing and it’s not. No, [00:17:30] it’s exactly. My head feels exactly the same as when I was your age.

Shyun Patel: Do you know [00:17:35] what someone asked me right after the conference? They go, how do you feel? And I feel exactly the [00:17:40] same. And it’s almost the the weird thing. And I don’t know if you’ve ever felt this. It’s almost a selfish thing [00:17:45] to say. It’s almost a selfish thing to say. Um, but [00:17:50] I think there’s a time where you feel a bit unprepared and you’re not sure of something. And like you said, we’ve both jumped in [00:17:55] different retrospects and over a prolonged period of time, there’s a point where you can kind of sit and [00:18:00] it’s not like in front of anyone. You’re by yourself and you look in the mirror and you go, you know what? I was, [00:18:05] I was right. It’s that that weird feeling of like, I was right to stick with this thing that I wasn’t sure. And [00:18:10] I, I’m a very big fan of like mental frameworks to get me through times [00:18:15] because I think motivation dies and dedication at times of good days and bad days. But [00:18:20] if you kind of set your brain in a certain way. I remember reading, uh, James Clear [00:18:25] Atomic Habits and he mentioned something about an ice cube. You familiar with this, this concept to [00:18:30] me so.

Payman Langroudi: So I’ve read it.

Shyun Patel: So remember he he gets an ice cube. And, um, let’s [00:18:35] say an ice cube is at minus ten degrees and you heat it up and it gets to minus eight, minus seven, minus six. There’s [00:18:40] no change. And you’re keeping up four, three, two, no change. And then hit zero. And all of a sudden starts melting. [00:18:45] Now does that mean that from heating from -10 to -5 that that wasn’t beneficial. [00:18:50] And sometimes I feel like in a society where there’s social media and even [00:18:55] go to the gym, there’s some sort of fast returns. You know, they say the two best time scales [00:19:00] to, to work on are within the hour and ten years, you know, which is quite juxtaposed. [00:19:05] But what am I gonna do in the next hour? And it comes back [00:19:10] to, um, another part. Have you heard of this? Um, I’ll try and summarise [00:19:15] it. The parable of the there’s all these different Chinese farmer. Have you heard this one before? It’s not, not [00:19:20] my coin. So I’m not going to take credit for it. But they talk about this, this farmer in China and [00:19:25] he’s running this farm and um, He’s got one horse [00:19:30] on the farm and his child is there and he’s feeding the horse. And one day the horse [00:19:35] runs away and the child runs to the Chinese farmer and he goes, dad, the horse ran away. This is really bad. [00:19:40] And he goes, well, maybe. And so the sons confused and [00:19:45] wakes up the next day and he’s doing the crops himself now.

Shyun Patel: And the horse comes back over the hill bringing ten [00:19:50] wild horses. And the son runs to the father and goes, this is amazing. Like there’s these, all these new horses. We [00:19:55] can go into the horse business and the Chinese farmer goes, well, well, maybe. Okay. So then [00:20:00] the sons then goes the next day and he’s training the horses, the wild horses, and one of them bucks and kicks him and he breaks his arm. And [00:20:05] all the people of the village go to the farm and go, this is awful news. Your sons broke his arm. And he goes, well, maybe [00:20:10] in the next day the conscription officer comes and goes, we’re going to war. And you take your son and he goes, well, my son’s arm [00:20:15] is broken. He can’t go to war. And so he doesn’t go to war. And then everyone goes, it’s amazing. He goes, well, maybe. And the point of the story is that [00:20:20] you never really know if something’s good or bad for you in the moment and something maybe, [00:20:25] you know, maybe you shouldn’t say this in case my parents are watching this, but cocaine on a two hour span [00:20:30] is not actually necessarily bad for you. But then if you take that to maybe three, four, five hours, ten hours [00:20:35] a week, these things that are things are only good and bad on a, on a certain time frame. And I feel like with, I [00:20:40] think.

Payman Langroudi: You’re right, you’re right, insomuch as a lot of us fall into the trap of thinking, is this thing good or [00:20:45] is it bad? And rather than what you’re saying, it’s good and bad. [00:20:50] Sure. Depending on what happens. And definitely, I think people’s biggest strength [00:20:55] is their biggest weakness. Mhm. Whichever wherever the strength is, you know, if you say, [00:21:00] oh, his strength is attention to detail, great.

Shyun Patel: But then they should see how [00:21:05] quickly you’re getting stuff. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. Like they become like massive over perfectionists. [00:21:10] Or you could say he’s the kindest person I’ve met. Great. Yeah. But [00:21:15] then he can’t fire anyone.

Shyun Patel: They say it’s hubris in Greek. Greek mythology, where the character’s [00:21:20] fatal flaw is his own strength. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And often, [00:21:25] you know, what you’re saying is you start becoming known. It’s weird because people [00:21:30] have sort of expectation and all that. And the hubris that you can get from [00:21:35] that can really ruin your life. Sure. Because you the thing [00:21:40] that makes for me the biggest sense is that if someone likes this podcast, yeah, [00:21:45] they like this podcast because I’m just being me. Sure. Yeah. Now, if 100,000 [00:21:50] people like this podcast, it’s being me. That was the point [00:21:55] of it. If I’m now change through hubris, become this other person [00:22:00] that ain’t what they were into. They were into me.

Shyun Patel: It’s not. They don’t benefit [00:22:05] from it. But also you go home thinking they like a version of me that doesn’t really exist. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:22:10] you know, you’ve heard this thing that they say, don’t over dwell on your failures, but [00:22:15] don’t over celebrate on your successes because both of them are sort of temporary [00:22:20] things.

Shyun Patel: They say when you’re, when you’re at the top, when you’re successful, when you do something well, [00:22:25] they go, you’re not actually that good. And when you’re when you feel like you’re the worst in the world, you’re not actually that bad. Yeah, yeah. [00:22:30]

Payman Langroudi: It’s very true. It’s very.

Shyun Patel: True. And that’s why I think it’s important to have a why. Anything you do, [00:22:35] you need to have some sort of why for us.

Payman Langroudi: Tell me this though, dude. Like [00:22:40] you’re obviously obsessed with self-improvement. Sure. Um, were [00:22:45] you that five year old? Like when when what was the inflection point when you [00:22:50] became this person?

Shyun Patel: Okay, let’s let’s go back. So, [00:22:55] uh, I’m very privileged. I had a very good upbringing. Um, but my mum and dad both [00:23:00] came from a lot of poverty and built themselves up to do, to do quite well.

Payman Langroudi: What [00:23:05] did they.

Shyun Patel: Do? So my my dad’s actually a dentist. Oh, really? And my mum did business and then worked [00:23:10] my dad and they have a practice now and they’re slowly thinking about winding down now. [00:23:15] Both my parents had hardship, but in very different ways. So my, [00:23:20] my mum’s parents owned a corner shop. Typical Patel and, um, but [00:23:25] her parents worked 364 days a year, and so often she [00:23:30] would be left at home with no food, and she’d have to eat chocolate from the cupboard and left very [00:23:35] independently. And hopefully my mum doesn’t mind me saying this, but there was one point where I think my [00:23:40] mum was asked, uh, she graduated and it was hard for, for girls back in that [00:23:45] age. And um, my nan didn’t really understand graduating. She goes, do I have to come to graduation? She was very [00:23:50] neglected. Whereas my dad had very, very, very strict parents, typical [00:23:55] Indian parents were.

Payman Langroudi: Were they both here as kids?

Shyun Patel: They were both here as kids. Yeah. Um, [00:24:00] in the West Midlands. And my, my dad wanted to go play and he couldn’t go play [00:24:05] because he had to do work. Anyway, fast forward. So that kind of amalgamation of the two polars [00:24:10] of having poverty, but in a very strict way where [00:24:15] you’re thankful in the long term, but it’s very difficult and free, they say, is it freedom or loneliness? You know, that’s [00:24:20] another thing people. And it kind of created me where I felt growing up there wasn’t. [00:24:25] My parents were very not like typical. There wasn’t a lot of pressure on me, but [00:24:30] they would talk about other kids in such a positive way that it kind of created insecurity in me. So I’ll give you an example. [00:24:35] In primary school, there may be a kid that was really clean around the house, and then [00:24:40] I’d be compared to this child and I’d be like, I’ve got to be really clean. Then a completely different kid who’s really good at sport, really [00:24:45] good at sport. And I know it’s really clever. Then I’d be really. So I’m competing against these five kids, you know, [00:24:50] I’m just this one trying to fight all these, these these battles off. And then what happened is [00:24:55] my parents never really. And they do now. But I think it just comes with like, the Asian mentality never gave me [00:25:00] that validation. So that kind of built on insecurity in me. So then growing [00:25:05] up, um. I paused that thought and come [00:25:10] back to it.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Shyun Patel: About three years ago, I read something that really gave me kind of fulfilment [00:25:15] and kind of gave me some reassurance was they did a survey called the Great Survey, [00:25:20] where they interviewed people that regard as great. Could be Cristiano Ronaldo, Roger Federer, [00:25:25] scientists, philanthropists, just people that were regarded great in their in their career. Yeah. And they [00:25:30] asked them, what is it that makes you great? Yeah. And like an overwhelming like 70, 80% of people [00:25:35] said, I don’t strive to be great, but I’m running away from a sense of inadequacy. And I resonate [00:25:40] with that a little bit, that that feeling of not feeling good enough drove me to want to do [00:25:45] things. When I have that little voice that goes, shine, you’re not smart. I will need to create fundamental evidence, [00:25:50] so I’ll have to. I got five offers for a hard course, so I can’t be that that stupid or you’re not [00:25:55] creative, so but but shine. You play three instruments and I’m in a band, so I can’t be that not creative [00:26:00] or, you know, you’re not that charitable then I’ve worked with this, so I’ll have to create fundamental evidence for [00:26:05] myself to battle this insecurity.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:26:10] then you’re saying your parents set up this insecurity by mistake?

Shyun Patel: I think so. It’s weird. [00:26:15] Right? So it’s weird because everyone’s very quick to [00:26:20] thank their parents and I’m very grateful. My parents had a very privileged upbringing, but also everyone [00:26:25] has their upbringing is what makes you who you are in some sense, your environment. And everyone asks, [00:26:30] I wish my parents did this, this and this, but then I wouldn’t be who I was if it wasn’t for those [00:26:35] sets of events. Yeah. Um, you.

Payman Langroudi: Haven’t got any kids, have you?

Shyun Patel: No. Not [00:26:40] yet.

Payman Langroudi: Good.

Shyun Patel: No time soon. How do you find it? From being.

Payman Langroudi: The thing? The thing with kids. And it’s very [00:26:45] similar with employees as well. Yeah. It’s that. Let’s look at employees for for a second. [00:26:50] Okay. I’ve got a sales team. Yeah. The sales team are incentivised on [00:26:55] sales. Mhm. Yeah. You think that sounds like a great idea, right? Yeah. They need to get [00:27:00] sales and they’re incentivised on sales. Yeah. But what ends up happening there is you get an unintended [00:27:05] consequence of everything you put in place with [00:27:10] employees. Yeah. So on that on that simple example of if if I incentivise my team [00:27:15] on sales. What ends up happening is they go for the big sales because [00:27:20] that increases their numbers. Yeah, yeah. That’s good. Right. We [00:27:25] want big sales. But most people come to enlighten, you know looking [00:27:30] to try it once. Yeah, yeah. That’s that guy who’s just about to spend £18,000 [00:27:35] on a elite partner status with enlightened was [00:27:40] one day that guy who came in trying.

Shyun Patel: The foundation of your whole.

Payman Langroudi: Trying it once. Yeah, right. [00:27:45] And then he went up the escalator. Then they said, oh, if you buy six, you don’t have to pay shipping. Oh, okay. [00:27:50] You buy 12. Now we’re looking for one partner in each town who’s our elite partner. But he went [00:27:55] through that. Mhm. Now, if you incentivise only on sales that side of the funnel [00:28:00] where people are coming in gets ignored because this guy’s buying 1 or 3 [00:28:05] or something. Yeah, they’re not very focussed on him. Yeah. So. Oh I know, [00:28:10] I know what’s the answer to that. Incentivise new customers While you’re at it. [00:28:15] All right. Now we incentivise new customers.

Shyun Patel: A shift.

Payman Langroudi: There’s a shift there. There’s another unintended [00:28:20] consequence that comes out of that incentivise growth. Yeah. It puts [00:28:25] massive stress on the team, massive stress because it then incentivise annually [00:28:30] or by month or by quarter. Yeah, you do it by quarter. You get this thing called [00:28:35] quarter switching. Yeah. Where they take the foot off the pedal for the first quarter. Or [00:28:40] let’s say they go berserk selling like hell in the first quarter, the second quarter. No one needs anything because they’ve [00:28:45] sold so hard. They take their foot off the pedal there. Then the following quarter, they push again, and [00:28:50] then in the following year, switch it around because that second quarter was very slow. So now they can [00:28:55] build on it, you know, and it’s not their fault. You set up the system.

Shyun Patel: And there’s flaws. Like [00:29:00] I think it’s what we said about the hubris of a business. Yeah, we could almost shift it to that.

Payman Langroudi: But then, but then [00:29:05] parenting same story, man.

Shyun Patel: 100%.

Payman Langroudi: Like your parents, when they were pointing out that kid [00:29:10] who’s good at football. Yeah. Or good at studying or good at that. They were trying to get you to be good at [00:29:15] those things, for sure. But the unintended consequence of that, this feeling of not being enough.

Shyun Patel: Yes. [00:29:20]

Payman Langroudi: Well done. Yeah. You take that feeling. Some people crush under that feeling. Yeah. [00:29:25] You take that feeling and use it as fuel. Yeah. But my question is, [00:29:30] when did you become so tactical? Because it’s very early on. Yeah, I did, I, when I, [00:29:35] yeah, I went to PhD. Yeah. And I started reading self-development books. Yeah. [00:29:40] But you’re really early on this journey. Like when, when was it, how was it? So was it, was [00:29:45] it one book in particular? Was it one?

Shyun Patel: Was it one book? It was, it was.

Payman Langroudi: It was success itself. [00:29:50]

Shyun Patel: And unintended conversations. So what I mean by that. Fast forward to secondary [00:29:55] school. Yeah. Because I wanted to then be good at a lot of things. I wanted [00:30:00] to be good at a lot of different things. And they say the course of a, a person that’s a jack of all trades, jack [00:30:05] of all trades, never gets anywhere. Jack of all trades. Yeah. I liked music and I liked science [00:30:10] and I liked Like sport, and I liked all these different things. So I’ll talk to the the guys that were good at gym. [00:30:15] I talked to the guys that were, you know, starting businesses and the guys that were good. And I’d pick up different [00:30:20] things. And over time from just doing this out of pure interest of like wanting to better myself, I thought, do [00:30:25] conversations. Sometimes a new person would come into a group and no one would know what to say to them. But I [00:30:30] had some little link to them from another conversation and it started becoming beneficial to me. [00:30:35] So I thought, I enjoy talking to people, I enjoy learning about people, but actually the knowledge I gain [00:30:40] from even this conversation will actually benefit me in some way.

Shyun Patel: And then I thought, how can I [00:30:45] like with anything, get the reps in master skill? And we talk about reflection [00:30:50] a lot in dentistry. I think it was after every conversation, [00:30:55] it almost a subconscious way and it is a double edged sword. You do tend to [00:31:00] analyse the situation and think, could I have said this more? Could I ask more? How could I have made. I think it [00:31:05] comes down to how could I have made this experience better for the other person? And that allows me to reflect on myself. [00:31:10] And then I thought, well, there must be Will Smith [00:31:15] said. The two the two most important things in life are running and reading, running because you fight the little voice in your head [00:31:20] and reading because you’ll never face a problem in life that someone else in history hasn’t come [00:31:25] across, or in a book about it. So I started reading and sharpening the tools, and now I [00:31:30] feel like relatively comfortable talking to people or anyone.

Payman Langroudi: Is there a is there a [00:31:35] book that really resonated for you? More than the others?

Shyun Patel: I’d [00:31:40] probably say Atomic Habits was pretty good for me. Yeah, I’d say one of [00:31:45] the first ones is pretty stable for a lot of people, but just helped me streamline [00:31:50] my thoughts because sometimes I can go on tangents but [00:31:55] helps me keep things quite narrow.

Payman Langroudi: And what’s interesting is, you know, like whatever [00:32:00] frame of mind you were in at that moment might have made that the case. You [00:32:05] know, like you could read it again now and get different things out of it. Yeah, yeah. Maybe the moment [00:32:10] that you read it was the moment.

Shyun Patel: Sure. I think that about people in general. I [00:32:15] said to, um, my my, uh, close friend of mine went [00:32:20] for the Dental society presidency. They didn’t get it. I didn’t get it when I went for it. We can talk about that later. [00:32:25] And I didn’t.

Payman Langroudi: Get.

Shyun Patel: It. No, I go into that story actually. So I [00:32:30] wanted to make an impact on people. And, you [00:32:35] know, we were talking about events just before the podcast started. And sometimes you see these guys at events, you won’t name names [00:32:40] that they’re in a nice suit and tie. They’re on stage, look super polished. And I thought, I’m not, I’m not [00:32:45] that person. I’d never be that person. And, uh, you can, of course, a bit of disparities in [00:32:50] like, there are those kinds of people and there are these kinds of people. And I always felt I’m these kinds of people. I’m never going to be like that and [00:32:55] I’m going to go for dental society president. I put Liverpool on the map [00:33:00] and I’ve got these contacts, and I thought I could do good for the society, worked the whole year, did a bunch of campaigning [00:33:05] and stuff, and I went for it and I didn’t get it.

Payman Langroudi: It crushed.

Shyun Patel: You. Yeah. [00:33:10] You. Yeah. Crushed me. I didn’t leave my room for two days, actually. Uh, yeah. [00:33:15] Just didn’t take it well.

Payman Langroudi: So interesting, dude. Yeah. Because it was some guy sitting in the back of the room who [00:33:20] didn’t even get to the point of asking to be president. Sure. [00:33:25] Like me, by the way. Yeah, yeah, I didn’t get involved one little iota in dental school. Yeah. And [00:33:30] you. And by the way, I’ve got a friend. His dad, unfortunately, took his own life. [00:33:35] Why? Because he didn’t win the Nobel Prize.

Shyun Patel: No way.

Payman Langroudi: That [00:33:40] was his goal. And, like, by the way, it’s not like as as as as [00:33:45] obvious as that.

Shyun Patel: Maybe, but. Sure, but.

Payman Langroudi: Trying.

Shyun Patel: To.

Payman Langroudi: Win the Nobel Prize broke [00:33:50] him mentally. And then he didn’t win it, so he had nothing left, whatever [00:33:55] it was, of course, whatever combination of things it was, his mother told him, you’ll never amount to anything, [00:34:00] for all I know. Yeah, yeah, but but it’s so interesting, isn’t it? Like for him, it was a [00:34:05] Nobel Prize for you. I didn’t even think anyone would ever want me as president of anything, so [00:34:10] I never even put my hand up. Yeah. So, like, how far you were ahead of me, but. And yet crushed. [00:34:15]

Shyun Patel: Yeah. Crushed. And it came to me very recently that it’s not, you know, people talk about like, you know, [00:34:20] the financial aspect of dentistry or these achievements and goals and accolades. Now it’s just my younger brother who told [00:34:25] me this, um, call it an arbitrary hypothetical situation, having [00:34:30] £1 million in the bank. Sure. Fine. And he said to me, it’s not about having $1 [00:34:35] million. It’s about who you have to become to be worth $1 million.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a nice.

Shyun Patel: Nose. I like that, and [00:34:40] I thought, you know what? I don’t I don’t see, uh, Payman and think, oh, [00:34:45] he’s got all this stuff. I think, what must that guy have gone through? Who must he have [00:34:50] had to become to be a person that can do all these things mentally? And so for me, that’s. [00:34:55]

Payman Langroudi: The really interesting thing is if I push a button, £1 million drops your account, not a single thing changes. [00:35:00]

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: To the in the moment, like nothing changes. Yeah, yeah. [00:35:05] Nothing.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You’re not any different at all.

Shyun Patel: It’s not the destination. Right. It’s the.

Payman Langroudi: The company. [00:35:10] That’s what a brilliant speech that was. Um, but [00:35:15] you know, like, by the way, let’s call it £1 billion. Yeah. Like proper life changing. [00:35:20] Yeah. Amounts of money still right now we’re still.

Shyun Patel: We’re.

Payman Langroudi: Still, we’re sitting here talking. Yeah. [00:35:25] You’re still worried about your grandmother’s illness? Yeah. Now. [00:35:30] Okay. What can you do with that? Money can buy things, which is like, really? There’s [00:35:35] nothing. No, there is not a thing I’ve ever bought that’s made me happy. Fulfilled longer [00:35:40] than. Longer than about a week.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Nothing. Yeah, I don’t know, maybe someone [00:35:45] else has, like, had this life ambition to get a Rolex or whatever, and that was, you [00:35:50] know, important to them. Now they got it. But the thing itself, there wasn’t a goddamn thing.

Shyun Patel: It’s [00:35:55] who you become in the, in the, in the you, you can.

Payman Langroudi: Buy experiences. Yeah. That’s good. [00:36:00] That’s good. Yeah. I’ll go off to Burning Man and then travel [00:36:05] the world and go on every private jet or boat or whatever [00:36:10] turns you on, you know, like the opposite of that. Yeah. You know, sit on a top [00:36:15] of a train in Pakistan, if you will.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Experiences are cool. Experiences are [00:36:20] cool, of course. But in the end, as like a dentist guy. Yeah. What are [00:36:25] you gonna do? You got, like, I don’t know, four weeks off.

Shyun Patel: Mhm.

Payman Langroudi: You could go on some five star hotels. [00:36:30]

Shyun Patel: It just ends. And you’ve got to have purpose.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Shyun Patel: Purpose. Do you do you feel like you [00:36:35] ask yourself those those some people shy away from it. They think I don’t need to think about. I’m just going to take [00:36:40] day by day. But do you ever think about your purpose and what drives you and keeps you going? [00:36:45]

Payman Langroudi: It happens to you is what I found. So some people may maybe, maybe you can sit on an [00:36:50] Anthony Robbins seminar and write it down and then go and make it happen. But [00:36:55] it happens to you, this podcast itself, this podcast. Yeah, it started off as a business [00:37:00] decision. We need to improve our, you know, reach on social media. [00:37:05] Um, so how should we do that? How much can we talk about toothpaste and teeth whitening? [00:37:10] Let’s talk about dentistry and people. Yeah, it started off that way. Yeah. But [00:37:15] now it’s a whole other thing. It’s it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s closer to a hobby than [00:37:20] to a business decision.

Shyun Patel: Passion project.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And what is a hobby? You know, something you [00:37:25] enjoy for sure. Something you try and get better at. You know, something where there’s a community of [00:37:30] you or whatever. Yeah, it’s much closer to that 100%. And then if I have to look back on it [00:37:35] and say, oh, what are you most proud of? What are you most proud of? That tube of toothpaste, [00:37:40] by the way? I really am. You know, like, of course, it took a long time to get that right. Or [00:37:45] these conversations, I say these conversations. Yeah. Because these are real, [00:37:50] right? And, uh, I bang on about this. Three of my guests are no longer with us. Mhm. [00:37:55] Yeah. And one day, you’re no longer going to be with us, of course. And this conversation is still [00:38:00] going to be there.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. Well, that’s the thing.

Payman Langroudi: When you say.

Shyun Patel: Purpose, they say, um, I, I, it’s [00:38:05] actually quite sad. I said at my grandfather’s funeral, I said, um, [00:38:10] nobody lasts forever, but you can create something that will. And whether that be a message, [00:38:15] something, something in someone. And so I think we should strive to [00:38:20] for positivity, strive to leave a positive impact on people because that’s, that’s really what [00:38:25] matters.

Payman Langroudi: I find interesting though. Yeah, there are some people who aren’t paying [00:38:30] attention to what’s going on. Yeah, they’re too busy in their [00:38:35] own world. Then there are other people who are paying attention, um, [00:38:40] but aren’t doing anything about it. So [00:38:45] I’m like that in our politics. I’m paying a lot of attention in politics. Yeah, [00:38:50] I, but I didn’t even vote for. I voted once in my life.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:38:55] Um, but then there are some people who know what’s going on and want [00:39:00] to act on it, want to do things. Yeah. And you look at your year [00:39:05] in Liverpool, you see all three of those types, most definitely.

Shyun Patel: Well in dentistry and in [00:39:10] my year in life. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Of course I’m interested in the transition. Yeah. Or [00:39:15] do you believe that it is some people are just like that from the beginning because there [00:39:20] is I’ve been all three of those people.

Shyun Patel: I think I have as well for sure. I think [00:39:25] even so, perspective that you may or may not get is, um, you [00:39:30] speak to young people, young events, and it’s easy for someone like you or, you know, I [00:39:35] always say to my good friend Joe Lovett, he always says to me, oh, your generation is killing it. I wasn’t like this. I was doing this. But [00:39:40] even those young people that you meet that are doing said things have gone through that [00:39:45] journey. Well, some of them, maybe not all of them, but they have gone through that journey. Um. I [00:39:50] think it comes from an experience, a conversation [00:39:55] where you think about why am I doing what I’m doing? And [00:40:00] maybe the thought that no one’s. Maybe it’s the thought for me that no one’s gonna save you. I think [00:40:05] my mum said to me once, it’s self-reliance. Yeah. No one’s gonna, you know, bad things [00:40:10] happen to everybody. And at the end of the day, if something happens. [00:40:15] Yeah, you’ve got your family and friends, but you’ve really got, you’ve really got yourself to pull [00:40:20] yourself out of holes. And whether it be in business, whether it be in life, whether it be friends, uh, it’s [00:40:25] equipping yourself that, you know, maybe [00:40:30] not on every case, but I found that certain experiences in my life have got certain [00:40:35] things have got easier as I’ve got older and I’ve realised that the they’ve not got easier [00:40:40] because the dragon is any smaller.

Shyun Patel: I’ve just got stronger. When [00:40:45] you slay that dragon because you’ve got used to failure, you’ve got used to rejection. So [00:40:50] I think it’s different for different people. Um, for me, I can’t think. Pinpoint it to one moment. [00:40:55] Well, actually no, no. Okay. Now I think about it a little bit [00:41:00] more. There was a little bit of a pivotal thing that happened in my life that kind of shaped me. [00:41:05] I’d say probably, maybe I haven’t consciously thought about it until this moment, which is why I didn’t [00:41:10] go in with it. So, you know, I’d be a little bit vulnerable [00:41:15] here, but when I was, um, and a lot of my friends know about this, but when I was 19, [00:41:20] I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. And. I [00:41:25] self self-identity is a big thing. You know, you’re, you’re, you’re [00:41:30] a young guy, you’re a dentist, your student sports, whatever you want to identify as and identifying [00:41:35] as an ill person, but not an ill person that you can’t get rid of your illness is quite [00:41:40] a was quite a weird experience for me.

Payman Langroudi: So people mourn it. [00:41:45] People mourn.

Shyun Patel: People mourn it. Right. And I didn’t want to identify something where [00:41:50] you almost become the thing you think about. So yeah, I say to people, um, [00:41:55] after how many times of playing the piano to become a pianist, right? [00:42:00] If you wake up one day, go, I’m a pianist or you go, I’m a pianist. What would a pianist do today? They play piano. Then you, [00:42:05] you know, kind of self-fulfilling become the thing that you want to be. So I [00:42:10] had this illness and, you know, so without going into too much detail, I have [00:42:15] to go to hospital every six weeks for an infusion for the rest of my life. Right? [00:42:20] Which is, you know, one day you wake up and the next day and I think they say [00:42:25] you have 100 problems, you have a health problem, then you have one problem. Yeah. And I [00:42:30] think for me, it was like, okay, this is something that affects me. You know, I get extreme fatigue sometimes [00:42:35] and, you know, all these other issues [00:42:40] and struggles that come with it. But I never really wanted to let that stop me. [00:42:45] And it kind of made me put life into perspective.

Shyun Patel: And I think you asked me about where did this kind [00:42:50] of drive? You know, when you say the word drive in the word, it’s like you’re accelerating. You know, you’re going [00:42:55] somewhere. Yeah. Through the reflection of my own health. And, you know, there’s periods of time where I [00:43:00] think the end of my second, my biggest achievement, despite everything. And we can talk about more things in PDSA. The biggest achievement [00:43:05] of my life was in second year. It was my second year dental exams [00:43:10] and I was extremely ill in that period. Did my second [00:43:15] year exams and I finished my exam at maybe 3:00 [00:43:20] in the afternoon. I’d get home and I’d be so tired [00:43:25] that sometimes I’d get home in my jacket, lie on my bed kind of sideways, and I’d be stuck there [00:43:30] till the next morning because I’d be so I couldn’t even move. Right. And after my last exam, my [00:43:35] mum came and picked me up. I was really ill. Took me to A&E and I was in hospital for two and a half weeks. [00:43:40]

Payman Langroudi: Wow.

Shyun Patel: But I still passed all my exams. I made it my mission to turn up for exams on the same day.

Payman Langroudi: And [00:43:45] this same problem.

Shyun Patel: The same, the same, the same, the same thing. Right. And, um, it’s, [00:43:50] uh. Yeah, it’s more just for me that, um. [00:43:55]

Payman Langroudi: So you feel like when that, when you got that [00:44:00] diagnosis, you feel like now I’m gonna try and make things count.

Shyun Patel: It’s more like my [00:44:05] parents. Your parents, everyone’s parents are only getting older. My grandparents are getting [00:44:10] older. Yeah. Everyone says life’s short. Yeah. Everyone goes, you know, um, it will [00:44:15] come, right? It will come to you. You get, you know, and some things do come to you. But people look at their lives. [00:44:20] You just woke up and got into dental school or you have to work for you have to kind of make a conscious. You woke up and made a podcast and you made this toothpaste. [00:44:25] No, you you sat and you thought and you made it happen. So with anything in your life, you know, you [00:44:30] could wake up, I could wake up at 30 or 40 and, um, you know, but I, [00:44:35] my, my life now, I think is, is fine. Like I’m not like a ill in that sense, but [00:44:40] it put in perspective the value of life. And I remember every [00:44:45] day I’d go to the sit outside for an hour and look at the car park and go, you know, this weird car park is now [00:44:50] my freedom. I never looked the car parks the same way. And so I thought, you know, I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow [00:44:55] or in three years time. I’m gonna act now. I’m gonna do it now. I’m not just gonna get in good [00:45:00] shape. I’m not going to go and live this fulfilling life. I’ve got to make it happen. So I just that day, I thought, yeah, I’m [00:45:05] gonna go and make it happen and then made it happen.

Payman Langroudi: I love.

Shyun Patel: That. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I love that. One of the [00:45:10] important things is dealing with life’s issues is gratitude. [00:45:15] Gratitude for what you do have. Sure. The other thing is with with, with things like [00:45:20] illness, often it’s a thing where if you meet other people or [00:45:25] hear of other people who’ve who’ve got it or had it or lived with it, [00:45:30] somehow it’s something about that makes it like, okay, it’s [00:45:35] not just me, you know.

Shyun Patel: This is the reason I, I can tell you now, I’ve told [00:45:40] about six people and I’m putting on a podcast. And I, funnily enough, So [00:45:45] I called my mum before I was walking in. I said, I’m going, I’m going on this podcast. And I said, should I, should I mention this? [00:45:50] Is this something, you know? And she goes, how do you feel about it? And I go, uh, I [00:45:55] was embarrassed about it or scared about it, or you shy away from these things and you realise, you know what, like I said, [00:46:00] in the kitchen, I feel like I’m at a point now where I’ve done Bdsm, I’ve [00:46:05] got this platform and I feel somewhat of a responsibility that through [00:46:10] the grace of my life and whatever there is in the universe, I have this [00:46:15] ability to I’ve built confidence over time, you know, from whatever means that’s come from. [00:46:20] And someone else may be suffering with the same thing, someone listening, a dentist, a student somewhere. [00:46:25] I think, well, if this average kid that’s ill can do this, then maybe [00:46:30] I can do do it too. And I feel.

Payman Langroudi: There’s huge value in that, dude. Huge [00:46:35] value. I had someone we ask a question. I mean, I don’t know if you’ve listened to this pod before, but [00:46:40] we ask a question about mistakes. Okay. And this. This dentist had made a mistake [00:46:45] that she was ashamed of.

Shyun Patel: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And at the beginning told [00:46:50] me, look, I don’t want to discuss it. Mhm. And then I said, well, what is it? And then [00:46:55] it was such an important thing. Yeah. Why do [00:47:00] I ask about mistakes? Not to take my guests through pain? Right. No. It’s so that we all learn [00:47:05] from our mistakes.

Shyun Patel: For.

Payman Langroudi: Sure. Yeah. It was such an important thing. And I said. I said, look, of course [00:47:10] it’s up to you. It’s your podcast. You can take it out if you want. Yeah. But [00:47:15] it’s the most valuable thing that happened in this podcast. It was the most valuable thing [00:47:20] that was said in, in that whole podcast. And maybe in the last 30 podcasts [00:47:25] that I’ve done. So that was the most valuable thing. So yeah, you owe it to yourself. [00:47:30] The rest of us.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. The rest of us to talk about it. How have it embarrassed you are about [00:47:35] that mistake. Yeah. Mhm. Um. And we’ll see. We’ll see. [00:47:40] Well, of course, of course. It’s not my decision, right? It’s that person’s decision. Yeah. Um, [00:47:45] but we’ll we’ll see how that ends up in the same way. Of course, it’s your [00:47:50] right to keep any or all of this, any and all of this confidential for sure. But [00:47:55] there’s people listening who’s going through this and need.

Shyun Patel: I think so I think there’s a point where you look at [00:48:00] yourself and you think, why was I put on this planet? You know, I am a bit of a [00:48:05] sucker. I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic. I, I, I, I don’t know if that’s the [00:48:10] right word to put it. I, I you’re a girlfriend. I don’t actually, I was, I, um, I’m [00:48:15] actually building a dating app.

Payman Langroudi: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. You said you said, okay, let’s talk about that. Yeah. How did [00:48:20] that come about?

Shyun Patel: Okay. So I don’t [00:48:25] like being put in a box, you know? So I like living my life in paradoxes. So I [00:48:30] am a dental student that’s, you know, run a half [00:48:35] marathon that, you know, is in a band that is called the extractor. Shout out [00:48:40] to my band The Extractors. And I like doing things where you go on stage and then, you [00:48:45] know, we’ve been at the bar plenty of times. So this juxtaposed of life and I thought, okay, you know why? Why? Okay. [00:48:50] Good question. I’m not I’m [00:48:55] not majorly religious, but I believe in God or there’s something out there, right? And so I [00:49:00] believe I, I believe in God, but I don’t believe in a religion right now. [00:49:05] The issue with that maybe call it an issue with the wrong word is that you have to find what is [00:49:10] your purpose. And I had to sit and think, what was the purpose of life for me? And I found that [00:49:15] the purpose, life for me is to feel things the good, the bad, angry, sad emotions. And [00:49:20] you get emotions from striving for things. You know, the process of building a company builds emotions. And [00:49:25] so with experience, I thought, what is the one thing that builds the most emotions? It’s meeting people, speaking [00:49:30] to people. People bring the most emotions. So I thought by [00:49:35] doing a bunch of different things, I’m actually going.

Payman Langroudi: Exposing, exposing.

Shyun Patel: Things. Yeah. The [00:49:40] why, why why why why. Comes back to, you know, my purpose of life. I like feeling things. Everything will come back [00:49:45] to that. So me doing different things, me, you know, going in paragliding in Vietnam [00:49:50] and then, you know, sitting in volunteering for a charity exposes me to two different kinds of people, [00:49:55] which selflessly, I have a really good conversation with [00:50:00] that person. Hopefully they enjoy it. But also selfishly, I get to experience two different sides of life. [00:50:05] And that’s my why. That’s why I like doing a bunch of different things.

Payman Langroudi: So keep going. The app [00:50:10] then.

Shyun Patel: So then I thought, okay, um, they say don’t, don’t. When [00:50:15] kind of doing a Start-Up and creating a business, don’t try and solve [00:50:20] a problem for everyone else. Try and solve a problem that you have and assume that other people have that same problem. Yes. So [00:50:25] I thought, okay, um.

Payman Langroudi: You were having dating problems.

Shyun Patel: Say problems. It’s, um, [00:50:30] it’s more that it’s looking at the world [00:50:35] and seeing which direction is the world going in and the world is going to a more a more digital way. [00:50:40] And sure, people try and push these apps where you meet in real life, but everyone’s [00:50:45] free to do that. And I think that comes from within. And you don’t need a platform to go and meet people, you know, on the street. You can have [00:50:50] conversations and whatever the way the world is going a certain direction, and I have some amount of influence. So [00:50:55] I thought, okay, the way apps are sorted now, where there’s different little bits of information, [00:51:00] there’ll be information like you support Liverpool FC and I support Liverpool FC, so that means we’ll get on and [00:51:05] that gets you so far or you’re like Iranian compatibility. Yeah. Well [00:51:10] it’s more like your.

Payman Langroudi: Common interests.

Shyun Patel: Common interests. You have common hobbies, but you don’t have common alignment. [00:51:15] Yeah. First, second or third day. Fourth day. And then what are you talking about? You’re talking about how many kids do [00:51:20] you want and where do you want to live? And you know, what’s affected your your perception of love? What’s your relationship with your parents [00:51:25] like? Right? Yeah, I actually believe that there are about 20 questions that [00:51:30] you could ask somebody that would give you a pretty, like I could give you a sheet of 20 questions and you have 100 [00:51:35] words for each question. And I could say to you, knowing you, if you’d get on with that person or not from [00:51:40] the talk, you could probably tell yourself, I think maybe you get it wrong certain times with more, with a lot [00:51:45] of probability. I feel like you would be able to tell if you were to get on with that person or not. So [00:51:50] I.

Payman Langroudi: Hear.

Shyun Patel: You. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But look, you know, the notion of like, opposites [00:51:55] attract.

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: Are you, are you is that is that.

Shyun Patel: It’s not, it’s not, it’s not, it’s not pairing based [00:52:00] off the same answers. Yeah. It’s pairing based off. So the obstacle 21 [00:52:05] questions. Um, and I’m trying to build an MVP at the moment.

Payman Langroudi: So, so what are [00:52:10] those say four of the questions like the good ones.

Shyun Patel: Um. What, [00:52:15] what, what is a reoccurring [00:52:20] issue you’ve had in relationships that you want to change, for example? Right. And [00:52:25] I think these are questions that I see someone sat in bed a long [00:52:30] day of work on the phone, on the sub, reading someone’s answer to something about the relationship. It doesn’t [00:52:35] have to be.

Payman Langroudi: I see, I see, I see, I can see other people’s answers. Yes. Yes. Raw.

Shyun Patel: Raw. [00:52:40]

Payman Langroudi: Oh, I see.

Shyun Patel: And then you almost fall in love with that person through the way they speak. But all that does is the [00:52:45] the real life interaction still needs to happen, right? That’s the fundamental.

Payman Langroudi: But how interesting.

Shyun Patel: Instead of [00:52:50] meeting someone at like, let’s say the person you’re gonna date is typical [00:52:55] dating apps get you 60 to 100% and every person on date falls within 60% compatible, 70, [00:53:00] 89 to 100. I’m trying to get you to 90 to 100 where you might not get on with everyone, but [00:53:05] for every date you go on, you know, at least.

Payman Langroudi: You know the person quite well. Yes.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. You’ve [00:53:10] hit the ground a little bit runny. You’ve opened this conversation’s something I did actually, in a different format. Um, [00:53:15] one of the feedbacks from Leeds was they wanted more networking. Yeah. I thought, look, I’m [00:53:20] confident I can come to you and talk to you about anything. Some kids can’t. So we had we had networking [00:53:25] tables and we had a stand that goes, I want to be an orthodontist. I’ve got imposter syndrome. And everyone that sits [00:53:30] at the round table. And we had one dentist on each one gets to start a conversation already. Oh, you got to, I got to [00:53:35] and then yeah, start a conversation. So yeah, something I, I, um, [00:53:40] more passion project, but.

Payman Langroudi: But how far are you with it?

Shyun Patel: Uh, early stages. Um, [00:53:45] I’m working with a developer using a bit of AI now, so AI is cool. And, [00:53:50] um, like I said, building an MVP. So it’s, um, a really viable [00:53:55] product. So it’s how quickly can I, when you start a business, it’s how quickly can I test [00:54:00] this for the cheapest amount of money to the most people? So the best way I describe is, [00:54:05] uh.

Payman Langroudi: Have you read lean Start-Up?

Shyun Patel: I haven’t no. Do you recommend.

Payman Langroudi: That’s where MVP came [00:54:10] from.

Shyun Patel: Oh okay.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Definitely.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Definitely.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:54:15] but have you come across lovable right.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, I built, I built the website [00:54:20] with lovable.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. So MVP can make day after tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Literally literally. [00:54:25] Yeah. I was looking at cloud cloud AI as well. I think there’s a good couple systems. But yeah, I think [00:54:30] the thing was you probably had loads of people go, I’ve got this idea, but how fast can you execute is the [00:54:35] basic test.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a funny thing about business ideas because [00:54:40] I was talking to my son about this, you know, like he’s, uh, doing aerospace engineering.

Shyun Patel: How’s he finding.

Payman Langroudi: That? [00:54:45] Hard? Hard, like difficult course. Yeah. Loving it. He’s loving it. He’s having a great time. Um, but, [00:54:50] uh, you know, he’s only the first year. Yeah. And I was like, okay, what are you going to do with [00:54:55] your life after that? And he’s not sure. Like one of the reasons he’s engineering was because [00:55:00] he wasn’t sure.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. It gives you options.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But like, does he want to be an aerospace engineer? [00:55:05] Maybe maybe he’s very into it. There isn’t that much money in it [00:55:10] number one. Yeah. Um it’s mainly defence. Yeah. And [00:55:15] that’s tough if you’re, if you come from the world I come from. Sure. That just gives you PTSD [00:55:20] every time you see it. Um, so there’s those things and then, you know, all his friends are [00:55:25] kids of bankers. Okay. So should he become a banker? And that’s bloody [00:55:30] boring. Yeah, but, you know, loads of money in that. Sure. And so what’s he going to do? Yeah. So I throw out [00:55:35] into the thing. Oh it could be like an entrepreneur guy. He’s like yeah but do what? Which what? [00:55:40] And I think like, I don’t know man. I think everything’s crap.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. [00:55:45]

Payman Langroudi: Everything’s rubbish.

Shyun Patel: Do you find that do you find that as a business owner, I find that I walk into restaurants or look into something. [00:55:50] I could make this better.

Payman Langroudi: No. Everything’s rubbish. Yeah, yeah I know. The only things that aren’t rubbish are maybe my AirPods, [00:55:55] but my latest ones, the rubbish.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. I’ve never been a big airport guy.

Payman Langroudi: But I’m saying I [00:56:00] can’t think of anything. Like you go to like a seven star hotel and it’s rubbish. Yeah, [00:56:05] sometimes. Yeah. There’s plenty of rubbish that everything is crap. Everything could be a bit better. There could be better [00:56:10] coffee at every moment in your life if you’re a coffee guy. Yeah, like there could be [00:56:15] much better everything. I agree. And so it’s so interesting because that means you could do so many [00:56:20] businesses.

Shyun Patel: Look around, look around.

Payman Langroudi: Make it make something better.

Shyun Patel: Yeah yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Have you been skiing? [00:56:25]

Shyun Patel: I’ve been skiing. Yes.

Payman Langroudi: So you know those, fully DOS party places on the mountain. [00:56:30]

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Like that guy didn’t invent the idea of a party on [00:56:35] the mountain. Yeah. Yeah, he just made it better. He made it good. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah.

Shyun Patel: You have [00:56:40] to reinvent the wheel. You’re right.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah, yeah. But when you’re young, you think you do. You think you’ve got to be an inventor?

Shyun Patel: Yeah. [00:56:45] I remember that the, the whole solar panel car that everyone goes through.

Payman Langroudi: And you think to invent something [00:56:50] like the number of times I’ve tried to invent some sort of interdental electric brush thing.

Shyun Patel: I think [00:56:55] everyone has had that. Yeah. Self brushing thing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. But just [00:57:00] like if you could have, I don’t know, the best anything.

Shyun Patel: Find a little margin on something that already exists. [00:57:05]

Payman Langroudi: If you had the best anything anywhere.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Well, like if you could in Liverpool [00:57:10] make the best anything, anything. The best burger, the best [00:57:15] hotel, the best anything. Yeah. You’d be great a great business. Yeah, [00:57:20] yeah. Then okay. The best, whatever it is in the whole country.

Shyun Patel: Just expand your niche.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. [00:57:25] The best. Whatever it is in the whole world. Yeah. Okay, now. Even better. Now you’re really talking. That’s where the investors [00:57:30] get interested. You know, total addressable market is like $10 billion.

Shyun Patel: Or.

Payman Langroudi: Whatever it [00:57:35] is. Yeah. So if your dating app, you know, it doesn’t have to even be the best dating app, the best dating app for the [00:57:40] type of person.

Shyun Patel: Who.

Payman Langroudi: Wants that.

Shyun Patel: Kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah. But you’ve got a niche though. I think that’s what [00:57:45] things are. You just businesses are just attacking niches. Yeah. And you know, to.

Payman Langroudi: Start.

Shyun Patel: With, yeah. So [00:57:50] that’s what I’m starting with a niche, starting in a small city, building a culture, a culture building is a big thing. You’ve got it with the podcast. [00:57:55] So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Something I’ve come across, I mean, is this, is this, am I talking [00:58:00] crap? Why are Patel so like good at business? Like, what’s that about? Is it [00:58:05] true?

Shyun Patel: Yeah, there’s, there’s.

Payman Langroudi: My partner’s a Patel, my business partner.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. There’s a whole I [00:58:10] have had that as well. I said at the conference, the last thing we need is another Doctor Patel. But it’s probably [00:58:15] going to be another 50 come through next year. Um, I don’t know. Maybe [00:58:20] it’s culturally rooted. I’m not sure. Maybe it’s the Asian background. [00:58:25] Maybe it’s just we come from a background of they say Patel’s a shopkeeper’s. You know, they say [00:58:30] there’s always this joke. Or was it at school? Um, what? Patel’s don’t play football [00:58:35] because every time they have a corner, they build a shop. That’s what they say. Right. Um, [00:58:40] and I think just having that there’s a difference from working in a factory [00:58:45] that kind of style and having your own business, no matter how small it is. So I think maybe that entrepreneur [00:58:50] has always been a thing. And then I’m not sure. I think I think maybe as [00:58:55] Patel does something, you look at that Patel would do something and then herd mentality. Herd mentality is a thing, [00:59:00] isn’t it? Um, and then you’ve got this auntie saying this and this uncle saying this and you think, okay, I’ve got to [00:59:05] be this. I think that’s what it is. I’m not sure. What have you come across a lot?

Payman Langroudi: Patel’s yeah man. [00:59:10] Yeah. A dev told me, you know, dev from Dental beauty, he told me, yeah, he’d [00:59:15] be sitting in, in rooms where people were just discussing business plans when he was [00:59:20] six, and he was paying attention to that. And he said by the [00:59:25] end of it, like what.

Shyun Patel: Education.

Payman Langroudi: What he knew about business was way more because [00:59:30] it was openly discussed in the family.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Payman Langroudi: He said, might have been a Patel trait.

Shyun Patel: That [00:59:35] is true. That is true. Your family gatherings and there’s just politics or this person’s done this and you start to think, [00:59:40] oh, maybe people everything comes.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, you know, people underestimate osmosis as [00:59:45] a way of learning, you know, because my me and my brother, we used to be [00:59:50] in the same place all the time when we were kids. Yeah. But I was happy sitting [00:59:55] in the kitchen. Yeah. And my brother wasn’t. Yeah. And I wasn’t sitting in the kitchen [01:00:00] to learn how to cook. Yeah, but you can’t help it. Like your mum or your grandmother are chopping an onion. [01:00:05]

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: I realised many years later, my brother doesn’t know how to chop an onion. [01:00:10] Yeah, yeah. And I do not, because anyone came and taught me because I was sitting in the room 100%. [01:00:15] Osmosis is such an interesting.

Shyun Patel: Way of, I say to students like now, as if I’m not a student, but [01:00:20] the power of showing up, right? Just show up and just. Yeah, just show up and sit there and just.

Payman Langroudi: I’ll tell you the other thing that you’re [01:00:25] very good at that more people should be like you. Yeah. Just asking [01:00:30] you be amazed at myself. The number of people who will never [01:00:35] ask for something. Yeah, I think I, I learned it when I was 45. [01:00:40] Really? Just like if you want something, ask for it. Yeah, yeah. And the number of times people have [01:00:45] asked me for something and for no reason, I’ve just said yes because it solves [01:00:50] my problem. Just because it feels good to help someone, right?

Shyun Patel: It takes a lot to ask, [01:00:55] I think. Yeah, it takes a lot. Takes a lot to ask.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But some people find it really easy and ask loads of questions and they [01:01:00] they get a lot further.

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: And some people find it really hard and don’t even think to ask. [01:01:05]

Shyun Patel: I guess asking question is technically taking a risk. You’re taking a risk. You’re putting yourself in a position of you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Putting [01:01:10] yourself out.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But I mean, you could even before you were this famous student. Yeah, you [01:01:15] could have, you could, you could send an email to Corey Ferran. And [01:01:20] ask him to shadow for a week. Yeah. And he’s the kind of guy who. Well, listen, by the way, don’t [01:01:25] do that. Not not you. I’m saying I’m not. I’m not encouraging everyone to email. Email Corey. [01:01:30] Who knows? But he is the kind of guy who might just say, yeah, come turn up to my unbelievable [01:01:35] practice in in Wimpole Street. Yeah. And stand around for a week. He might say that [01:01:40] as a as a student, you think, why would he say that? Yeah.

Shyun Patel: But actually [01:01:45] why not? I actually, I actually flip, I actually flip what you say on its on its head about why [01:01:50] would a student say yes. So I started this whole not entrepreneurship, [01:01:55] but this whole dive into the dental world through Andy [01:02:00] Acton, you know, um, your ex rival podcasters, podcasters. [01:02:05] Yeah, I don’t know, friend, frenemy, frenemy, I don’t know.

Payman Langroudi: He’s, he’s a good friend.

Shyun Patel: He’s [01:02:10] a, he’s a, yeah, he’s, he’s probably the first guy that I’ve reached out to in the dentistry that gave me, gave me a [01:02:15] hand. And, uh, I just, I just, I just sent him a sent him a message. And yeah, I [01:02:20] remember the last thing I said in this Instagram DM because we don’t have, you know, messenger pigeons or, you know, that’s the [01:02:25] millennial way. Um, I said, uh, I think he has the same question. Like, which three people would you, would [01:02:30] you want to eat dinner? And I think I said, oh, I maybe next time someone asks me, I can [01:02:35] put, um, Andy acting next to, I think Cristiano Ronaldo and, uh, Joe Rogan and [01:02:40] then you go, sure, let’s go for dinner. We went for dinner. And I find that what I [01:02:45] said now it’s a different game. It’s a bit more saturated than when I first took the dive for whatever [01:02:50] reason. Is that the second you graduate, the second you get your GDC number, it becomes [01:02:55] a lot harder. It becomes a lot harder, I feel, because in some minds of some [01:03:00] people, not everybody like yourself, your competition, right? When you when you’re a student, you’re just, you’re [01:03:05] just a student that’s asking for help. And you people want to help you. If you’re young and you ask for help, I feel like people want [01:03:10] to help you. And I found that when I, when I was coming through my perspective.

Payman Langroudi: Jesus Christ, man.

Shyun Patel: I, [01:03:15] I find that that’s the best thing that I’m talking about. Andy said to me is that [01:03:20] we’re not none of us are competing. We’re competing against someone buying a new car or a new holiday. [01:03:25] You know, there’s enough patience to go about, which is what I believe. But I think my [01:03:30] generation, maybe a little bit older, there is that kind of competitive streak between people, unfortunately. [01:03:35] And I think.

Payman Langroudi: It goes back to the type of person who can get into dentistry [01:03:40] these days. It’s a competitive type of person.

Shyun Patel: True, true. You can’t blame I guess it’s, uh.

Payman Langroudi: I [01:03:45] find it overwhelmingly people don’t see each other as competitors. I mean, people see [01:03:50] each other as competitors when they’ve got practices on the same road.

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: I can see that [01:03:55] we we kind of play on that a little bit as suppliers. Yeah I do. Yeah. Um, [01:04:00] because we have one partner who is that status in that town [01:04:05] and people want to be that partner. Sure. You know, um, but people practices [01:04:10] on the same road maybe. Yeah. Sometimes teachers get competitive. [01:04:15]

Shyun Patel: Do they?

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes. Sometimes teachers get competitive. But [01:04:20] it’s definitely not the case. Overwhelmingly.

Shyun Patel: I find people want. Every person I’ve reached out to [01:04:25] has helped me, and I feel like I’d encourage students that people want to help you. They have no reason not to help you. You know. [01:04:30]

Payman Langroudi: Let’s go to PDSA. Sure. Yeah, because I was massively impressed by [01:04:35] the Leeds one passer did. Yeah. Um, just the scale [01:04:40] of the thing.

Shyun Patel: He smashed it.

Payman Langroudi: I had no idea. I hadn’t been to that part of [01:04:45] PDSA for years anyway. Yeah. But I had no idea how big it was. Yeah. 1000 [01:04:50] students, 1000 humans. Yeah. Anything times a thousand is a nightmare. Like [01:04:55] if you want to put a leaflet out for a thousand people. Yeah, that’s one, two, three, 4000. [01:05:00]

Shyun Patel: So when you see, when you see it, you’re like, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Just a leaflet, one leaflet or [01:05:05] you want to put you guys ask us for toothpaste for you put a thousand toothpaste into a thousand [01:05:10] tote.

Shyun Patel: Bags. Our living room saw it, you know, living room.

Payman Langroudi: So anything. Tens of thousands. [01:05:15] Tough. So tell me about did you volunteer for it?

Shyun Patel: Yeah. So [01:05:20] I, we talked about me not not getting Dental SoC. Yeah. [01:05:25]

Payman Langroudi: And how long did it take you to get over the crushed feeling? Were [01:05:30] you still not over it?

Shyun Patel: Still crying. I’m weird. It’s it’s it’s. I’ll [01:05:35] get past things because you can’t dwell on things. But also, maybe this is the wrong approach. You’re sensitive, [01:05:40] but having. Yeah, I take things personally because I feel like that drives me to want to go. And that’s cute. [01:05:45] Yeah. Close the loop. Got to close the feedback loop on everything so.

Payman Langroudi: You got.

Shyun Patel: Over it. The bracket was open. Yeah. Well, I [01:05:50] said everyone has a selfish and selfish reason for doing everything. Yeah. My selfish reason [01:05:55] was the same as Dan soccer wanted to show people you can be anyone and do anything. Yeah. My selfish reason was [01:06:00] I wanted to, you know, make my parents proud. Essentially, I wanted them to see me on that stage. And I said, at the [01:06:05] Dental, the president’s parents got to go on stage, got to come to the ball. They’re the only parents who [01:06:10] come to the ball, and they were going to see me on stage and be like, oh my God, I didn’t get it. And I was like, oh. So I [01:06:15] thought, okay, I’m gonna go for it. So I went for it, but I thought, if I’m going to go for it, I’m gonna fall flat on my face. So just [01:06:20] a week after Leeds. Bear in mind the AGM for voting was in July. I was like, I’m gonna start planning now. [01:06:25] You know, like I’m gonna give them irrefutable evidence. I’m going to do this. So I [01:06:30] viewed all the venues. One week after Leeds went to all the venues, went to the M&S Bank arena, went to the cathedral, went to all these [01:06:35] venues, planned it and made a logo before the thing even existed.

Payman Langroudi: Before you were the guy.

Shyun Patel: Before I was the guy, [01:06:40] I made the logo and I went to, uh, Jay Jay Patel, super [01:06:45] lovely guy, worked with aspire and we made this video, this trailer that has gone around [01:06:50] and yeah, went, went there. And I said to them, well, [01:06:55] what would you want? I thought, what would they want from someone going for this role? And when you’re pitching [01:07:00] yourself, I find everyone goes, I’m a rapper. This, this, this, this, I do this, this, [01:07:05] this, that’s fine. But if you give them an experience where you’ve got the logo, you’ve got the venue. [01:07:10] And the one thing I said is that everyone can say x, y, z. But I said, you might not remember every lecture. [01:07:15] You might not remember every drink at the bar, but you remember how you felt, right? [01:07:20] And people come back to me and say, I remember that. And they go, I gave them something that almost existed in their mind, and [01:07:25] them not voting me would have taken that away. It wasn’t something to gain. It was something to lose. And [01:07:30] so I got this. And little did I know that again. Um, fast forward [01:07:35] to November, October. There were points where if I was to go back, I probably [01:07:40] wouldn’t have done it. We talked about this naivete and my.

Shyun Patel: So [01:07:45] I got the conference. I built a committee of about 20 people, [01:07:50] average age about 21. I thought, okay, you know, leads cost about [01:07:55] 160 grand. We’re in for 190. We’ll make something. And maybe this is just poor [01:08:00] budgeting. The issue with Bdsm, which I think it’s almost harder than some businesses, is [01:08:05] that you have some sort of financial plan with the business. You know, you go, we’ve got these, you know, nails [01:08:10] and we know this is going to come in and it’s going to be north or south of this. This is what we’re planning for. It should be to say is that [01:08:15] you you sign a bunch of contracts like I’m going to spend this money. And then it’s like, well, we’ve got zero. We’ve [01:08:20] got to make this money now. And one thing that I found is that when I’m set on something, maybe it’s this obsessive [01:08:25] trait or issue that I have, I’m set on it, I want this, I want this to happen. [01:08:30] So instead of budgeting, I made more money, went from 190, became 200, 200, 210, 210, [01:08:35] 200. And in the end it was me and three other three of my team. We made, we made a quarter [01:08:40] of 1,000,000 in 8 months.

Payman Langroudi: And in total.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, in total.

Payman Langroudi: So that’s sponsorships, [01:08:45] ticket sales tickets.

Shyun Patel: So yeah, we sold, uh, 950 tickets in nine minutes. [01:08:50] And what? Yeah, we sold it in nine minutes. We sold out in nine minutes. [01:08:55] How we did ticket drop and sold out in nine minutes. We did three, four ticket drops.

Payman Langroudi: The anticipation [01:09:00] thing.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. Well, that’s the thing. I thought one thing I said, which thankfully paid off for [01:09:05] me from the second I got it, I go, this is the biggest undergraduate Dental conference in history. And it [01:09:10] wasn’t it didn’t exist. It hadn’t happened. But I just said that. I said that from the July. And [01:09:15] it was a risk but self-fulfilling. It became the biggest Dental student conference in the history of the UK from. [01:09:20]

Payman Langroudi: It’s interesting with students, the. The virality is gigantic. It’s much more. I’ve [01:09:25] noticed that when I get students on this. Yeah, the virality is way more way. [01:09:30]

Shyun Patel: Really.

Payman Langroudi: Than when I get.

Shyun Patel: Why do you think that is?

Payman Langroudi: Because you guys are just more connected, more connected [01:09:35] to each other. I mean, like, for instance, the notion that you have to download the society app. [01:09:40] Yeah. To buy a ticket. Yeah, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds mad, like from a, from a business perspective. [01:09:45] What more friction? Sure. Yeah. But the, you guys know that [01:09:50] you have to download the society app and that, that news travels, you try and get that news [01:09:55] out to dentists. Yeah.

Shyun Patel: So many steps.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Come, come and buy a ticket to my event. [01:10:00] By the way, download this app first. Who’s gonna do it like with students Just news [01:10:05] travels.

Shyun Patel: I think I think what you do in your events is very similar to BSA. [01:10:10] And I’ll tell you why I want to ask you about it. So I’m not naive enough to know that not [01:10:15] every student cares about education. Want to spend a weekend learning, right? Not every student wanna do that, right? [01:10:20] But when it comes back to the thought that you don’t know what you don’t know. So you’re having an event at Ministry of Sound. Yeah, [01:10:25] that’s a cool place to be, right? Some people just want to go to ministry. Some people for [01:10:30] me just want to go to the boat party. Some people just want to go to the cathedral. This is a party. Yeah. And [01:10:35] they go for a party, and they end up walking into a lecture. Oh, I learned something there. So it’s almost like I played [01:10:40] on the people that want to learn are going to come anyway. The people that want to come for a boat party want to come to create [01:10:45] an aspect of FOMO, want to come to a big gala dinner, are going to come for that as [01:10:50] a by-product. They’re actually coming for the the conference is the by-product and they end up learning and meeting. [01:10:55]

Payman Langroudi: Someone said, we get this on our composite course. Yeah, people pay 1500 pounds for a two day hands [01:11:00] on and a number I wouldn’t say the majority. Yeah, a [01:11:05] number are just like trying to get out of the surgery.

Shyun Patel: Really?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s hard. Being a [01:11:10] dentist is hard. Yeah. You have four walls and a nurse. Yeah. If you don’t get out once in a while, see the world, [01:11:15] see what’s going on, you get tired? Yeah. Um, and by the way, they’re on [01:11:20] the course. They’re on the course. But their primary driver is to maybe sometimes [01:11:25] 2 or 3 of them will get together and you know, from pals from dental school now they’re like [01:11:30] eight years in or something and they’ll say, oh, let’s have a weekend in Manchester together. Yeah, we’ll do it on the course. [01:11:35] Yeah. But their main driver isn’t to learn the skill, but they’re [01:11:40] in the course. Yeah. So sometimes we’ve had uh, warehouse project on [01:11:45] at the same time as mini smile makeover. And sometimes we turn up for the second day and [01:11:50] half the class didn’t make it.

Shyun Patel: Somehow.

Payman Langroudi: To the.

Shyun Patel: Second day. Yeah. [01:11:55]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And they paid £1,500 for the, for the, for the learning. Yeah. Um, [01:12:00] I mean that’s rare when half the class don’t make it. But.

Shyun Patel: But it happens.

Payman Langroudi: What? Your point [01:12:05] is, people do things for lots of different reasons. What events? You know, [01:12:10] like ministry for me is, is the idea with it was that I, [01:12:15] it started out with, I’m pissed off with gala [01:12:20] bloody dinners.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Like I get.

Shyun Patel: Subpar food.

Payman Langroudi: You know, why? [01:12:25] Why do we have to dress up like James Bond?

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Like, why? I mean, then you say, oh, it’s [01:12:30] a chance for the ladies to put their dresses on. Okay, fine. Yeah. And the other thing I [01:12:35] got really pissed off with is, uh, fancy bloody dress. Yeah. [01:12:40] I don’t like fancy dress. I do not like it personally. Okay. So then. Then I was talking to. Who [01:12:45] was it? Nick Sethi from bath. They’ve got a big fancy dress party. Okay. And I said, why is it we have to turn [01:12:50] up either as James Bond or Spider-Man? Why can’t we just turn up as us?

Shyun Patel: Yeah, yeah. For yourself.

Payman Langroudi: So [01:12:55] that that idea of let’s let’s do a party where it’s just us. Yeah. Was [01:13:00] the initial thoughts? Sure. Yeah. But then with events, as you know, the two [01:13:05] big costs or it depends on your, your focus, right? But for me, the two big [01:13:10] costs are the a V because all AV is terrible everywhere. Yeah. I mean everywhere.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, [01:13:15] yeah.

Payman Langroudi: If I come across a single place where the AV is any good.

Shyun Patel: Amazing.

Payman Langroudi: So you have to bring it in [01:13:20] yourself. Of course. It’s a goddamn nightmare.

Shyun Patel: Expensive as hell.

Payman Langroudi: I mean, the setup that [01:13:25] you have. How much did that cost? That was unbelievable. How many.

Shyun Patel: Screens? So?

Payman Langroudi: So [01:13:30] it was one gigantic screen.

Shyun Patel: It was one gigantic. And it fed in. So our overall setup for the [01:13:35] the whole thing was V6O8V30.

Payman Langroudi: Well that’s all.

Shyun Patel: Bad. It’s not bad, [01:13:40] but a lot of AV came with our room, which our room hire itself was 60.

Payman Langroudi: Oh [01:13:45] okay. Okay.

Shyun Patel: So then yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So for me AV is a massive problem. Yeah. Getting a nice [01:13:50] good screen. Yeah. Feel sound. Everything correct. Um, so Minister [01:13:55] of Sound’s got amazing AV in place, like the world’s best sound systems.

Shyun Patel: Did not come from just. You want a good [01:14:00] AV and ministry and just married the two AV.

Payman Langroudi: And then the second thing is the party, [01:14:05] the social. Yeah. Mhm. Um, for me, that’s important because of everything we said, because I [01:14:10] have fun number one. But number two, so everyone can have fun, everyone can have fun and meet each other and [01:14:15] ministries ministry. Yeah, it’s already it’s already in place.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So I suddenly realised those two [01:14:20] things are in place. Yeah. And then so the idea of a nightclub event was, [01:14:25] was the thing. And then we said, like which nightclub?

Shyun Patel: The nightclub. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Let’s have a look. [01:14:30]

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I realised I was looking at Coco as well, which is in Camden.

Shyun Patel: Okay.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:14:35] name recognition wise. Yeah. Ministries Ministry.

Shyun Patel: Of [01:14:40] course.

Payman Langroudi: Well, and it’s so interesting. Yeah. Because if I said the minimalist at Queen [01:14:45] Elizabeth’s second conference centre. Yeah, yeah. Now you don’t know what [01:14:50] that is. You have to fully trust me on what the education is going to be like. Even if I had an [01:14:55] amazing party at Queen Elizabeth and party. It’s a cell. It’s difficult [01:15:00] to know what that is. Whereas you kind of know what this ministry events going to be anyway, [01:15:05] because it’s a nightclub event, we’re trying to make it different.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And make it very fast paced [01:15:10] and education that’s different. And treatment planning, audience participation [01:15:15] on nice. You know, which way did it, should it go? Experts say what they think. And [01:15:20] the.

Shyun Patel: Audience.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And only 15 minute lectures. Um feel different. [01:15:25]

Shyun Patel: Yeah. That’s what people want. We talk about like businesses. You don’t have to be better. You have to be different.

Payman Langroudi: Not [01:15:30] only different in a stupid way though. I just think like education’s a bit stuck.

Shyun Patel: What do you [01:15:35] think it’s going like?

Payman Langroudi: It needs to go and what it needs a shake up [01:15:40] like definitely needs a shake up dude. Yeah. Because like education hasn’t changed.

Shyun Patel: Dentistry [01:15:45] has changed. Education hasn’t changed. Yeah, yeah. It’s lagging. Um.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve always thought [01:15:50] if I was the BAC, d or the a d, you know, like rich organisations. Yeah, [01:15:55] I would take a blank canvas event. Yeah. Have you seen it when you’re looking for [01:16:00] venues?

Shyun Patel: No.

Payman Langroudi: Some venues they’ve got things. They’ve got bars and all that. And [01:16:05] this blank, blank canvas.

Shyun Patel: Oh, you can build it.

Payman Langroudi: You can build it, whatever.

Shyun Patel: Where you have the expense there. The expensive, expensive. [01:16:10] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But but the notion of while you’re watching the lecture, we’re doing this at Missouri [01:16:15] while you’re watching the lecture, food and drink are available while you’re watching the lecture.

Shyun Patel: Nice. [01:16:20]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Shyun Patel: So it’s an experience.

Payman Langroudi: If I yeah. If I want to have a beer while I’m watching this lecture, it’s [01:16:25] there. Yeah. And there’s, there’s waiter service in the VIP, you know what I mean. So, so it makes [01:16:30] going and I think of it as a cinema. You know, I’m not a massive movie fan. Okay. [01:16:35] Yeah. But if I ever go to a movie, I definitely go to one of those ones where there’s amazing food, [01:16:40] amazing sofas. Yeah. Because if.

Shyun Patel: The movie.

Payman Langroudi: If the movie’s rubbish.

Shyun Patel: This [01:16:45] experience was something.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I’ve got I’ve still got the experience, you know, that that was the thinking.

Shyun Patel: No, [01:16:50] I like that. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So then tell me a okay Massive risk.

Shyun Patel: Massive [01:16:55] risk.

Payman Langroudi: Not knowing whether you’re going to pull it off financially. All of that. These 20 [01:17:00] people were you like, did you did you ask like, what’s the best way? Or did you [01:17:05] think of it yourself?

Shyun Patel: There was.

Payman Langroudi: Was each of them in charge of one aspect?

Shyun Patel: Yeah, there was a lot of I’m a strong [01:17:10] believer that anything that you do, you stand on the shoulders of those before you. So so with Lina and Parsa, um, [01:17:15] both did amazing successful events. And, you know, we had my committee, [01:17:20] you had the exec committee, you guide me. But ultimately I had a vision. And the vision is [01:17:25] not made up of anything physical. It’s just kind of these ideas of feelings.

Payman Langroudi: How you want people to feel.

Shyun Patel: Sure. [01:17:30] And I thought sometimes it’s just you have dreams of stuff like, would it be cool to be in a boat party [01:17:35] and see fireworks? I thought, let’s just make that happen. So did it. Um, and I wanted [01:17:40] people to step in there and feel I’m not, I always say the phrase, I want the least interesting thing about [01:17:45] me to be that I’m a dentist.

Payman Langroudi: Okay.

Shyun Patel: Right. So, you know, [01:17:50] we’re in the people business. So you don’t talk to people about being dentist or talk to patients about being [01:17:55] a person. So come to the event I thought I want, whether you’ve got imposter syndrome, [01:18:00] you’ve got you want to be an orthodontist or you want to have 50 practices, there’ll be, there’ll be someone there [01:18:05] for you. And, uh, with the committee, it’s hard to motivate people. You’re not paying. Yeah. [01:18:10] And what I’ve learned is that people are motivated by different things in business. It may be [01:18:15] I can. Now, you might come up with a couple more, but in business, I narrow it down to three things. Motivate [01:18:20] by money, move by time, motivate by how much can I progress my career? Okay. [01:18:25] I guess committees like understanding each person’s individual, knowing what drives them. And [01:18:30] I said, the harder it is, the more fulfilled you’ll feel. And you make a name for yourselves. And we had [01:18:35] a little, um, kind of reality TV show that Artemis, uh, was [01:18:40] doing for us on our social media team. And I realised that I am, I have [01:18:45] an understanding of everything, but I’m not the best at anything, you know, maybe, you know, talking to sponsors [01:18:50] and onboarding clients. You know, I feel like I’ve got some grasp back, but the social media guys, [01:18:55] they’re better than me. You know, the people doing the ball, they’re better than me. All these different teams, all these different [01:19:00] people were better than me. So I think to be a good leader is to understand you are good at this. You [01:19:05] be in charge, you give them guidance and you can, you know, have to reshape some emails and, [01:19:10] you know, well.

Payman Langroudi: Well, that’s an important point, dude. Yeah. Because yeah, I [01:19:15] like Virginia. Yeah. We know we both the Virginia. Of course. Hey, you take care of this. [01:19:20] Yeah. Whatever the thing is. Yeah. The the delegation [01:19:25] of that task to her. Yeah. There’s one sort of easy way of [01:19:30] thinking about it is I want people to feel this way. Go for it. Yeah. And leave it all [01:19:35] up to her. Yeah. Yeah. That’s one way. Yeah. That’s not great leadership.

Shyun Patel: No, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:19:40] great leadership to even say, I want someone else to do something, I trust you. Yeah. That’s one level [01:19:45] leadership. But the next level is Success looks like this. Yeah, [01:19:50] failure looks like that. The milestones towards success [01:19:55] are five. So we’ll meet five times as [01:20:00] each of those milestones happens. Yes. And we can work out together. What’s the best thing and what’s [01:20:05] in your way and how I can help you.

Shyun Patel: Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Well, it’s not my natural way.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. No, [01:20:10] my.

Payman Langroudi: Natural way is. Go ahead and do whatever you want. Have to do.

Shyun Patel: Do you feel like it comes out [01:20:15] the way that you want it or you. You’re okay with that? Do you go with.

Payman Langroudi: My natural way? Man, I’m. I miss those [01:20:20] five meetings. Really? Yeah.

Shyun Patel: I kind of see it as the. I kind of see it as [01:20:25] like there’s a, B and C players in kind of businesses, companies, how good they are, how [01:20:30] good they are. But sometimes people.

Payman Langroudi: You can leave them.

Shyun Patel: Ace. Like, you know, I’m going to tell you, do [01:20:35] this, do this, do this, do this. B’s going to be like, I want this, but these are the landmarks on here. And [01:20:40] C’s like this is the goal. Make it happen. And, and I think, you know, [01:20:45] Dave and Virginia, for me, very much like could tell them things. Of course, sometimes it’s not exactly how I wanted [01:20:50] it. Sometimes it’s better than how I wanted it. But that’s when you delegate. Delegate is a tough, tough.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:20:55] one of the toughest.

Shyun Patel: It’s.

Payman Langroudi: How did you find sales? Did you find that [01:21:00] very simple? It came.

Shyun Patel: To me. I’m a. I’m a Bryant Dental rep.

Payman Langroudi: So of [01:21:05] course you are.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. Been been doing sales and.

Payman Langroudi: I just had. I just had them on. Did [01:21:10] you and Connor.

Shyun Patel: Connor. Nice. How did it go?

Payman Langroudi: Amazing.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. It’s um with [01:21:15] sales. I think it’s just understanding. People say, how can I provide value to this person? I think if [01:21:20] you’re trying to sell something when it comes across wrong, but you miss the point, the whole point of sales, [01:21:25] I feel, is to what value add can I add to this person? What experience have [01:21:30] they had? So what people don’t ask the question, what conference have you been to? You’re a dentist. You’re went to BACD. What [01:21:35] was really good for you? What didn’t go so well for you? And then how can we focus [01:21:40] in on the things that do provide you value. Um, and understand look.

Payman Langroudi: And then delivering [01:21:45] is the.

Shyun Patel: Delivering is hard.

Payman Langroudi: It’s hard when there’s so many. You guys, we have 3036 [01:21:50] sponsors.

Shyun Patel: Well, that’s the thing. It’s you know, I think overall there was a positive experience. [01:21:55] Someone had an amazing experience. Some sponsors didn’t have um, as [01:22:00] positive as others, but they’re all positive. But then it’s like different people want different things [01:22:05] out of it. And when you push in one direction, something else gets taken. And it’s [01:22:10] for me, the hardest thing with BSA was everyone talks about like, okay, undersell overperform, [01:22:15] but then when you’re scared of selling 1000 tickets, you kind of got to market it. So do I, do I over market [01:22:20] it and like make it this big phenomenon? Do I under market and no one comes to it. It’s that [01:22:25] balance is very tough for me and I will not be doing it again. Events for a long time, but [01:22:30] I’d have a lot more insight going forward.

Payman Langroudi: You learn loads, you [01:22:35] learn loads. Um, but I find, you know, what I find hard about selling is intention [01:22:40] to buy. Yeah. Is kind of this cloudy thing. [01:22:45] Sure. Saying yes, I will buy. Yeah. Like the yes moment. Yeah. [01:22:50] It’s difficult to.

Shyun Patel: Even even after the yes.

Payman Langroudi: The than the payment. Oh, yeah. Like payment for events. [01:22:55]

Shyun Patel: We’re still waiting as.

Payman Langroudi: A as a sponsor myself. Yeah. I personally hate paying [01:23:00] for an event before the event. Like, yeah, like with me, I like paying one week before if I [01:23:05] have to. Sure. I kind of like paying for it after the event. As, as the organiser though, you need [01:23:10] that money, especially with you guys, right? There is no other money.

Shyun Patel: There is no other money.

Payman Langroudi: There’s some other money [01:23:15] I.

Shyun Patel: Was seeing the account were down, down, down the invoices. And you’re waiting for. Yeah. And then the Po [01:23:20] number and all these things come up.

Payman Langroudi: But but then, but then, but then the cardinal sin, the cardinal sin is [01:23:25] being very attentive until the moment that people say yes. And then and then [01:23:30] just leaving them. Yeah. And it’s, it’s almost, it’s almost like a natural thing [01:23:35] because your motivations are that way. Like right now I need this headline sponsor for [01:23:40] Ministry of Sound for sure. Yeah, I need it. Yeah. So I’m following up people. I’m like, [01:23:45] hey, did you look at the thing? What do you reckon? You know, I need it badly. Yeah. So I’m following [01:23:50] up. Then when the person says yes, I’ll be the headline sponsor, your natural thing is to breathe. [01:23:55] Okay. That’s done. I don’t need to contact him.

Shyun Patel: You still need to deliver.

Payman Langroudi: Actually, you do need [01:24:00] to contact him and say, hey, let’s talk about how we’re going to make this a massive success for you.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, sure. And that’s what [01:24:05] I think. I think the event was so big, it was trying to balance. One thing I wanted to do was the experience for the sponsors. [01:24:10] So typically have trade fairs and you dot people. I allocated committee members [01:24:15] to groups of stands. I said, look, if no one said go make conversation, talk to them, bring people over. I wanted everyone to [01:24:20] have a good experience. Um, and it is a hard balance to, you know, when you’ve got the next [01:24:25] thing to the next thing to do. But ultimately the, the sponsors and I think students realise this [01:24:30] really allow the events to go to this size, then investing in the next generation [01:24:35] and hopefully there’s some value add is what makes these events possible. So I’m forever indebted to the sponsors because [01:24:40] some of them won’t realise those points. My back was against the wall and it’s not like it’s [01:24:45] very easy for me to say, but there’s a there’s a there’s a [01:24:50] point that could be argued. I don’t want to compare them where you’re in business. And sure, [01:24:55] if your house is up for sale and your back’s into one of your kids, food’s on the plate, you’re in dire situations. But if [01:25:00] I’m in a business and I could have made money and lose a bit of money, fine. But this was national humiliation. This was [01:25:05] I can’t make I can’t make a loss. I have to chase it. And when we were going to, to [01:25:10] January. Um.

Payman Langroudi: It’s so funny, isn’t it? The driving force is [01:25:15] I don’t want to be humiliated and I want to make my parents proud.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. [01:25:20]

Payman Langroudi: Like, it’s a funny thing, you know, like from the outside, you’d say, hey, here’s an ambitious [01:25:25] kid. Whatever. He’s doing his event, whatever. Yeah, but the driving force is to make my parents [01:25:30] proud.

Shyun Patel: We signed the contract, and then you sign your life away. And I was like, that’s it. Life was gone. Didn’t see my friends, didn’t [01:25:35] do it was, uh, it was a tough year. It was, uh, I was, I would say to people I did about 40 hours [01:25:40] a week on top of. Give us an.

Payman Langroudi: Example of something that went badly wrong that you didn’t expect.

Shyun Patel: I [01:25:45] did something bad that came around to be a good thing in the end. Um, so we were initially, [01:25:50] every year there’s, there’s been one venue, if you’ve been to them, the dinner and the conference [01:25:55] in one venue. And so we went to the M&S Bank arena. We wanted to have everything in one venue. That’s what happened. [01:26:00] They have in-house catering, so we didn’t know that we were set on this place. It was [01:26:05] the only place that could hold that number of people. So we either can do a conference that was smaller than last year, or have [01:26:10] to push it to 1000.

Payman Langroudi: You’d made the promise, right?

Shyun Patel: I made the promise conference. I [01:26:15] had to go for it. 1000 signed it. Everything was good before I signed it, had conversations and they would go, okay, [01:26:20] you can’t use any of the catering. And they use this company called, I won’t say this company. They have to use an in-house company. Now [01:26:25] they’re catering for all the people. And bear in mind, I’ve never done events. So I just went off what passed and I [01:26:30] go, okay, catering for the ball 13,000. Okay, okay, cool. [01:26:35] But 13,000 went to these guys.

Payman Langroudi: For a thousand people.

Shyun Patel: I don’t know how he does it. Don’t know how he did it. But [01:26:40] they had an in-house company, I think £15 each.

Payman Langroudi: Amazing.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. They they got some Indian companies [01:26:45] going. This company. Okay. Um. How much? 8000. I [01:26:50] go, oh, okay. We’re not gonna have to have a dinner. How we can do it. So then okay, [01:26:55] I’ve got I’ve got a new venue. Can I find another venue? Do the a v for everything. Less than eight hours. I found one, they could bring it down. [01:27:00] Okay. I did it at the had the cathedral set it up. As we’re going along [01:27:05] they go. We had a really bad experience bringing in an external caterer. You’ve got two caterers to choose [01:27:10] from and this and the price for catering was like 5000. And [01:27:15] I was in a point where we weren’t going to have a gala dinner. There was going to be no gala dinner for BSA [01:27:20] for the first time ever. And it was in those times I went and spoke to Dean Virginia. It was I sat in my room [01:27:25] and my head was on the table. And I just thought, what am I going to do? So we tried [01:27:30] and tried and tried. I tried asking him, tried this sort of stuff, had a back and forth about trying to make stuff okay. We tried to build trust. Oh, [01:27:35] we’ve got the backing of the city. We can do this. We can sit down and talk to us. And one day, the [01:27:40] top guy of the cathedral sent a letter and he goes, no, no, no, you [01:27:45] got to use these guys got 50 K. And I got to Virginia and Dave got this email and I was in clinic and I got [01:27:50] this email and go, okay, so we’re not we’re not going to have a dinner. Okay. We got to figure out what we’re going [01:27:55] to do now. Panic stations. Remember the committee don’t know. It’s almost like we’re the parents and we [01:28:00] know something bad’s going to happen and they don’t know, and.

Payman Langroudi: You don’t want them to lose their.

Shyun Patel: License and [01:28:05] nobody knows. And you’re here and your heart’s palpitating. I remember we got told about, um, ten, [01:28:10] 10:00, okay. And I said to Virginia, [01:28:15] I go, okay, a sense of almost I call it delusion, [01:28:20] a delusion. It was complete delusion, complete long shot. I go, you know what we’re [01:28:25] gonna do? And this was after months of back and forth, go to wardrobe and find [01:28:30] your best suit and put and put your best suit on. And we’re going to go and knock on the front door of the cathedral tomorrow. [01:28:35] So we’ll put on our suits next day. Completely hopeless. They and [01:28:40] they, we’ve had conversations like what? They told me. They just humoured me. They just humouring me. I [01:28:45] had this delusional ideas put on our suits. Three piece suit. One suit just went to the cathedral, knocked [01:28:50] on the front door. They were like, look surprised.

Payman Langroudi: Without an appointment.

Shyun Patel: No, no appointment. [01:28:55] Just turned up, turned up to the front door and we went in there and I sat down and they see [01:29:00] this and go, look, I’m running this event, this three day event. And we’ve worked so [01:29:05] many months on this. And the last piece of the puzzle is getting this dinner sorted. And we’ve tried for months [01:29:10] and we’ve had ups and downs. And I want to look at you. And I said, look, you’ve never had a student event here. You have [01:29:15] no reason to trust me. Right? And I gave him all these reasons to why this, all these reasons, what I will [01:29:20] do will work for the team. Da da da da da. And he goes, okay, get this, get [01:29:25] this caterer. You want to bring in, get him to sign a proposal. Like two weeks later, I wrote a proposal, got it approved, [01:29:30] and I flipped it around. But it was it was no logic. It was nothing. It was just a sense of just [01:29:35] let’s just go. And I think no analogy for life. Just go knock on the front door and just amazing. Just see. Yeah. [01:29:40] So lots of ups and downs, a lot of, uh, grey hairs gained. But, uh. [01:29:45]

Payman Langroudi: Let’s talk about practice.

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: What do you want to tell [01:29:50] me about?

Shyun Patel: Yeah. So, uh, your practice. Yeah, yeah, it’s [01:29:55] an interesting thing to say to me. So I’ve got a pretty [01:30:00] interesting, interesting story. I have a dental practice. Now. [01:30:05]

Payman Langroudi: How did you fund it?

Shyun Patel: I [01:30:10] had an interesting business. So when I was 19, I, [01:30:15] you know, like typically typical young Asian [01:30:20] kid, like I got a whatever I do in life, I wanted to make an upstream impact on upstream and wherever [01:30:25] I landed on for me, I wanted to make impact, you know, in terms of as a clinician, you impact your patients. Like, how can I impact [01:30:30] the, people, the dentists, the impact the patients and make as much impact as possible. I like talking [01:30:35] to people. That’s my strength. I’ll, I’ll go down the group of practices. And my plan was I was going to get [01:30:40] one in my first year, my first one two years out. But I thought, okay, to [01:30:45] to do this goal, you need some capital. And I was 19, I tried dropshipping, I [01:30:50] tried trading, tried forex, I made a couple thousand, lost more thousand, didn’t really do much. [01:30:55] Right. So and then one day I was, I was in my living room at home. I was scrolling [01:31:00] through Facebook Marketplace and everyone’s probably watching this saying, you should go touch grass, go [01:31:05] outside. But there I was scrolling through this marketplace and I saw that people were selling fridges on Facebook Marketplace. [01:31:10] But the weird thing was that they were selling them for free. I was like.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, [01:31:15] just take it away from me.

Shyun Patel: Take it away from me.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, it’s a problem, right?

Shyun Patel: Yeah. And I was so have you seen like a [01:31:20] fridge or a sofa on the side of the road? People often see them. And I thought, why, why, why do people do this? [01:31:25] Did what? Research? And turns out there’s CFCs and chemicals in and fridges that make them really [01:31:30] hard and dangerous to dispose of through landfills. It’s quite expensive process. Yeah. And, um, [01:31:35] I thought, okay, sat and I thought and I thought and I thought and I thought, okay, the same way Uber [01:31:40] don’t make cars and Trivago don’t make hotels. I’ll connect product to consumer. [01:31:45] So I one day went on Facebook [01:31:50] and I reached out to a guy selling a fridge and, um, [01:31:55] said I hired, I think the first one was with my car like a small one. And I went [01:32:00] and picked up this fridge and put it in my polo. And then I did a bit of research about, [01:32:05] you know, it was in pretty good shape this first one. And then I sold it.

Payman Langroudi: Was it working?

Shyun Patel: It’s working, [01:32:10] it’s working, it’s working. All of these ones are working.

Payman Langroudi: The guy just wanted.

Shyun Patel: To just.

Payman Langroudi: Get rid of rid of it.

Shyun Patel: They want new [01:32:15] fridges, but they wanted.

Payman Langroudi: To sell it on Facebook Marketplace.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, we did a bunch of someones Facebook Marketplace, uh, [01:32:20] eBay, bunch of different stuff.

Payman Langroudi: Got it for free from Facebook Marketplace and then sell it.

Shyun Patel: And then what I did is, [01:32:25] um, is that I realised that there’s something here, you know, being the middle man. And [01:32:30] I then used to, like, you know, hire vans, uh, pick up fridges from all over, all [01:32:35] over. I was at uni.

Payman Langroudi: Facebook marketplace.

Shyun Patel: Facebook marketplace, eBay tree, [01:32:40] bunch of different websites.

Payman Langroudi: Loads of people were trying to get rid of fridges.

Shyun Patel: Fridges, fridges, and sometimes there’s [01:32:45] forums just this. You find crazy stuff online and pick them up and then we just [01:32:50] sell them. And I hired a bunch of people, um, knew what to look for [01:32:55] and things were faulty. You got to be careful because you need specific engineers to drain the gases and stuff and. [01:33:00]

Payman Langroudi: Fixing them.

Shyun Patel: Not not fixing them. It’s more like just taking a good, well, well, [01:33:05] um, fitted fridge that was functioning, cleaning it down. If [01:33:10] parts change. We did that, we kind of, um, freelanced that I bought relationships through the years and [01:33:15] then you sell them and then, uh, made a good amount of money and, uh. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:33:20] this is in dental school.

Shyun Patel: This is in dental school. Yeah. And, um, something that I don’t really talk about too [01:33:25] much, but yeah, I just thought, let’s now look at anything like TV. Microphone. There’s cup. I think someone’s [01:33:30] made 100 grand or a million off.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. This I look at fridges now and I think yeah, it’s great. [01:33:35] And unfortunately like the, the legislation, um, around fridges [01:33:40] has changed to change the chemicals and things. But that was something I did and it was, uh, just a gap in the market I saw. [01:33:45]

Payman Langroudi: So interesting.

Shyun Patel: And yeah, just used to be the fridge man and just, uh, buy and sell [01:33:50] fridges and did pretty well and then got a bunch of capital and [01:33:55] from there, you know, did a little bit in forex and then pushed it a little bit. [01:34:00] And then.

Payman Langroudi: When was the Bryant thing in this.

Shyun Patel: Bryant thing was more [01:34:05] in.

Payman Langroudi: Before or after fridges? Uh, during.

Shyun Patel: Towards the end of it, [01:34:10] Brian wasn’t really for monetary value. Brian was I wanted to learn, uh, [01:34:15] sales. Um, I think like a lot of people that have had contact with Bryant, the people [01:34:20] and the company, it’s very electric. I talked to George a lot And just [01:34:25] it’s just a forward thinking company. And I think like, you don’t know what you don’t know. And people [01:34:30] go and say, yeah, I want to build this big DSO big company. But like DSO is not structured the same way that [01:34:35] a single practice is, you know, these, these practices are almost structured more like a corporate company. [01:34:40] So having insight into manufacture, having insight into companies and [01:34:45] structure and people. And also, like I said, sometimes I’m talking to students, sometimes talking to my tutors. [01:34:50] And when you’re selling to, to dentists, it’s quite an intimate thing. So you’re having a conversation and they’re being [01:34:55] vulnerable with them. And as a person, a lot of most of these guys are sales reps, but I was a dental student. [01:35:00] So you learn a lot from talking to these guys. So yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah. Listen, working for Bryant might be one of the best things [01:35:05] you could do as a dental student. Yeah. But what I find really interesting is their insight to [01:35:10] understanding the students will make good salespeople. Yeah. Because no one else is. No [01:35:15] one’s really done that.

Shyun Patel: I think only now recently other companies are catching on. But yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So it could be anything, [01:35:20] anything.

Shyun Patel: Sure.

Payman Langroudi: But that insight is a really interesting insight that they kind of built their.

Shyun Patel: Shoes [01:35:25] are hungry now more than ever. They want, they want, they want to.

Payman Langroudi: But, but, you know, you going into [01:35:30] 100 practices or whatever, however many you went into meeting 100 dentists, you could get [01:35:35] a job with one of those guys if you want. You’re more like the employer type than the employee. So [01:35:40] you made all this money?

Shyun Patel: Yeah. And then what happened was I would [01:35:45] so, so so I figured that clinical dentistry people talk about my tooth. I took [01:35:50] my tutors now and they go as people come out of dental school, they’re coming out. Maybe this isn’t true, [01:35:55] but this is just a thing that some people say. Maybe five trainers say that, oh, they’re coming [01:36:00] out worse and worse every year. And maybe there is not for everyone, but [01:36:05] an arrogance to some people coming out. And I feel that I am completely average dental student, average [01:36:10] every year. Nothing, nothing extraordinary academically or in terms of my with my [01:36:15] hands, I feel like it’s going to take me time to be a good dentist. I’ve got a lot to learn. I can learn off anyone. I don’t claim to be anything [01:36:20] special, but the business of dentistry. There are people, there are books. There [01:36:25] are videos you can learn about CQC. You can learn about comply SEO. You know, you can [01:36:30] learn about these things. You can learn about how to order products, and you can learn how to structure companies. [01:36:35] And I feel like this information, I’m very privileged to be born in the generation I am, [01:36:40] is out there, and I advise people to go out there and just learn about these things. And so. [01:36:45]

Payman Langroudi: You know, it’s it’s drives me sometimes. Yeah, there’s some question. [01:36:50] I’ve got a question. Yeah. Whatever the question is, it could be sure chemistry thing with [01:36:55] I wish I paid more attention in chemistry in school nowadays. And now I’m having to hire a [01:37:00] bunch of chemists. Yeah. But it could be a chemistry. It could be any question. Yeah, sure. And you’re thinking, God, what’s the [01:37:05] answer to this question? You’re feeling a bit down about it. And then you’ve got to just wake yourself up and say, [01:37:10] dude, you are better placed to answer this question.

Shyun Patel: Than anyone in history.

Payman Langroudi: Anyone in history. [01:37:15] Now with AI.

Shyun Patel: Takes me like 10s. Yeah, you know, everything. The thing. So I think now [01:37:20] it’s.

Payman Langroudi: But it drives you.

Shyun Patel: Forward because it’s so it’s so it’s so easy to find [01:37:25] the answer to this people. And it links into the people side of things. But also you can do self-learning or [01:37:30] have more informed conversations about people. And instead of acting, asking, you know, agencies, oh, [01:37:35] like you can ask them what’s a good yield? Or what should you look for? Or what grade building should you look for [01:37:40] or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, uh, you know, a [01:37:45] practice popped up and, um.

Payman Langroudi: Were you signed on with [01:37:50] Frank Taylor Associates?

Shyun Patel: No, I talked to Andy, but.

Payman Langroudi: For the sake of the argument.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You [01:37:55] were signed up to all these.

Shyun Patel: All these things. And my dad helped me, like, because he has a, he’s [01:38:00] a. Yeah. So so you look, you look at practice and you understand where there’s margins, whether they’re closing early, [01:38:05] whether there’s sort of more practices, capacity, you know, all these different things that you can really spend [01:38:10] time and learn about where the margins can be for practice. And I thought found practice with good margins. I thought, I can’t [01:38:15] take a, I’m not going to take a really thriving practice. I’m practice. I’m not naive enough to, as a 2122, [01:38:20] turn to even more thriving practice, but I thought, you know, there are margins here. Heavily referral practice, [01:38:25] ortho practice. People do clear aligners. You know, people asking this, this lady, oh, do do do do [01:38:30] composite bonding, do do this, this. And they said, no, no no no no. Well, okay.

Payman Langroudi: Was there an aspect of you here [01:38:35] that was like wanting to be the youngest guy ever to buy a practice, like something like that. Because I [01:38:40] remember the first time I met you.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: You specifically came and asked me, do you know of anyone younger than me? [01:38:45] Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. So, so joy is I think it’s, um. [01:38:50] Well, that was a bit of naivety there probably in a little bit of, um, you [01:38:55] know, overconfidence.

Payman Langroudi: You driving you achievement of being, um, someone who does that [01:39:00] in Dental.

Shyun Patel: I think it sounds good, but over a long term, long term it doesn’t [01:39:05] fulfil me. It’s more that they see comparison unconscious comparison. Um [01:39:10] is is can [01:39:15] cause arrogance, I think, or can cause pain, but conscious comparison can cause [01:39:20] growth. So compare yourself to yourself, but also looking at everyone else around [01:39:25] you and almost looking at sure can look at Dental, but can look at dentists as well and say, look, where am I placed? [01:39:30] Because you go from, look, let’s be real. You go from being a and being like, okay, whatever hypothetical [01:39:35] place you want to put yourself in, dental students, then you graduate and then you’re back. You’re just a student, just [01:39:40] a dentist. Then you’re not the.

Payman Langroudi: Most junior dentist in the.

Shyun Patel: World. Yeah. And so then for me, it’s, [01:39:45] it’s, I can’t say I’m where I want to be in ten, 15 years time, but you can look [01:39:50] at trajectories and look at look, if I’m, you know, doing this in my second year, then [01:39:55] I might be doing this my fourth year. So people bloom at different times. But yeah, I mean, it’s cool [01:40:00] to have something so young and it’s scary because no one’s done what you’ve done. So it’s navigating a field [01:40:05] and no one really understands or conceptualises it. But like [01:40:10] I said, it comes down to talking to people, you know, someone’s some of the guys on this podcast an extraordinary [01:40:15] younger than me, um, doing these start-ups doing things that [01:40:20] and it’s easy to look at someone else, you know, maybe even yourself on this podcast, look someone else like they’re doing amazing [01:40:25] there. But oftentimes I look at other people think, you know, they’re killing it. I could dream to be this person or even the things [01:40:30] you’ve achieved. It’s and people don’t give themselves a lot of credit. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Do you think there’s [01:40:35] a, like a downside to all of this insomuch [01:40:40] as chasing something? No, I mean, you’re a dental student, [01:40:45] man. You know, there’s another dental student in Liverpool right now who’s just going out, getting [01:40:50] drunk, kissing girls, whatever, whatever his thing is. Yeah, yeah. He hasn’t got the weight [01:40:55] of the world on his shoulders. Um, which is correct when you’re young. Sure [01:41:00] not to have the weight of the world on your shoulders. And by the way, when he qualifies, [01:41:05] he may suddenly turn into this tactical dude who wants to become a specialist endodontist or whatever [01:41:10] it is. Yeah, sure. But do you do you feel like, I mean, every every big endeavour comes with [01:41:15] sacrifice, right?

Shyun Patel: Lots of sacrifice.

Payman Langroudi: And we can say about like, if you put it in a bracket, [01:41:20] say a big endeavour sacrifice, right? All these extra hours [01:41:25] that you spend relationships.

Shyun Patel: Relationships, friendships, friendships.

Payman Langroudi: Birthdays you didn’t go to. [01:41:30]

Shyun Patel: Yeah. No. And it’s true. And I think the funny with these, it’s like you think you work hard until you actually work [01:41:35] hard. I found that, you know, it’s it’s this, this phrase people [01:41:40] say is that you sacrifice time, you sacrifice time to get money to get time. Yeah. [01:41:45] Right. So, you know, um, and I played with this idea that, oh, I want to spend more time with my [01:41:50] family, so I’m gonna work really hard and have freedom and spend time my family and spend time my family now. So [01:41:55] it’s like, what? Um, and it’s a, it’s an interesting concept. And I [01:42:00] think contentment is something that is something that I really try and think about that I’m [01:42:05] extremely grateful for where I am, you know, from a health perspective for me, but [01:42:10] also, Like I said, for me, it’s, uh, the pursuit, you know, it’s [01:42:15] the pursuit. It’s the range of emotions I will feel getting to that point. When I get to the point, I want to feel something [01:42:20] else. So I might chase be more creative, I might chase friendships, [01:42:25] and I try and find the balance. You know, I don’t feel like I’m someone that, um, I’m [01:42:30] quite content with someone being more successful than me because I want to have an enriched life.

Shyun Patel: You know, I like music. [01:42:35] Uh, I mentioned I was in a band and I like running, like going to the gym. I like [01:42:40] going to the pub with my friends. But there is a point where when [01:42:45] you’re so invested in business and work, I [01:42:50] felt like this. I became very obsessed where I couldn’t turn, I couldn’t turn it off. And every time [01:42:55] I was with my parents, I could tell I was knowing them. And I was knowing my friends that I’m in the room, but I’m not really in the room. [01:43:00] And the cogs are turning and I’m checking my phone. I’m saying, one second Payman, I need to, uh. And it’s [01:43:05] hard because then it’s where does the contentment end? When? When are you content with life? Because not [01:43:10] being content, if not content with how you look, you go to the gym. If you’re content, you don’t do anything. So it’s like, where [01:43:15] is the balance? And that’s not an answer that I have right now. I could ask you the same question. Where does it go [01:43:20] with you to push for the next thing? Because the reason you go for the next thing is because to [01:43:25] some extent, you’re not happy with how things are right now. But then where does that.

Payman Langroudi: I find it hard, man, [01:43:30] this question of contentment and progress. I think it’s [01:43:35] bursts of each. Yeah, because they seem like they’re in opposition with each other. If I’m content, [01:43:40] why am I progressing? I’m content. Right. Sure. Um, there’s [01:43:45] another thing that when you, when, when you got your diagnosis. Yeah. That, you know, [01:43:50] that thing that spurred you.

Shyun Patel: Spurs you back into the.

Payman Langroudi: As you get, as you get older, it becomes a question [01:43:55] of how many years have I got left in this business? Yeah. And did [01:44:00] I, did I achieve, did I live up to my, to my potential?

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting [01:44:05] question. Potential. Yeah. You know, I remember had Robbie Hughes. It was episode [01:44:10] six or something, and he was he was saying he’s an obsessive guy. [01:44:15] He’s one of the most obsessive guys I’ve come across. Yeah. Um, but what really drives [01:44:20] him is living up to his potential.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. And I think Matthew McConaughey says in one speech is that I’m chasing [01:44:25] myself in ten years time. And when I get there, I’ll chase myself in ten years, I’m never going to catch, you [01:44:30] know, my hero or myself. But that’s the joy of it.

Payman Langroudi: But the reason I bring it up is I [01:44:35] look at I sit here, look at you and think, wow, man, at this age, so focussed, so [01:44:40] like interested and interesting and, you know, you’re gonna I feel [01:44:45] like from the business perspective, everything’s going to be just fine. There won’t be a problem.

Shyun Patel: But [01:44:50] that’s the fact that I’m not sure of that is what drives me.

Payman Langroudi: There won’t be a problem. Yeah. It depends on what [01:44:55] your goal is. If your goal is a thousand practices, then you may not get. Yeah. [01:45:00] You know what I mean? Who knows? Yeah. I just feel like from the business perspective, you you love it so much [01:45:05] that you will be successful. But the question of the question I asked about, what [01:45:10] are you missing out on? Yeah, you’re definitely missing out on something for sure. Now you’ve got this [01:45:15] rounded career, right? You’re in a band. I, if I were you, I would [01:45:20] just stop, smell the roses and think a bit more about that. I know you’re in your final year [01:45:25] now, but your your next 2 or 3 years. Yeah. After [01:45:30] that, you’re not really young anymore.

Shyun Patel: No, it’s it’s like you said, [01:45:35] the balance of. Yeah, you can go back to Spain when you’ve got [01:45:40] all these millions and. Yeah. But there’s something beautiful about going with your friends and staying in a hostel and being a bit [01:45:45] broke.

Payman Langroudi: That speech you made, I don’t know, like, is that was that original content or whatever?

Shyun Patel: Yeah, it.

Payman Langroudi: Was.

Shyun Patel: Beautiful. Yeah. [01:45:50] So, uh.

Payman Langroudi: To summarise.

Shyun Patel: So for.

Payman Langroudi: Someone who wasn’t.

Shyun Patel: There. So so I asked [01:45:55] at the beginning of the conference, what’s better, the journey or the destination? And [01:46:00] I said to people, the question I’ve been thinking about a lot and one day, you [01:46:05] know, people might have grandchildren. The grandchildren come running up to you and they’ll go, grandma, grandma, what was better? You had [01:46:10] this amazing life, this amazing career. What was better, the journey or the destination? And I told everyone [01:46:15] to pause and to take a look to their left and look to the right. And in the end, it’s not [01:46:20] about the journey, not the destination, but it’s about the company. For it’s not where we’re going, nor how we get [01:46:25] there, but the people we do it with. And I think this podcast and the, the philosophies [01:46:30] that this podcast shows that it’s not really where it’s going or how it got [01:46:35] the people and the conversations you have through the process is really what makes life enriching. And [01:46:40] I guess for me, it’s, it’s, it’s not about it’s not even where I’m going. I [01:46:45] think all these things I’m doing just open doors to meet new people, you know, whether [01:46:50] success allows me to go to the depths of India and meet, you [01:46:55] know, people there or, you know, through the process, I get to meet even. That’s one thing that [01:47:00] drives me as a dentist, you know, who, who’s going to sit in your chair and have such interesting conversations and I.

Payman Langroudi: Miss [01:47:05] the thing I miss the most about being a dentist.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: And I think.

Shyun Patel: When it comes back to you, what you said about why, why, why, why, [01:47:10] why the one why that I can’t answer. The one why that I don’t have a why to is I [01:47:15] genuinely like on my like hand and heart. I love talking to people. I get [01:47:20] such a thrill. I love it, I talk too much, I love it, it’s, uh, it’s. And I can’t tell you why. [01:47:25] It’s just love the conversation, love feeling. And [01:47:30] I think that’s why I like films, you know, someone talks to you and they take you on. And I was like, what do we like to to have [01:47:35] enlightened run a podcast? I’m hearing you speak and you’ve got a son like, yeah, I never thought about life like that. And it just [01:47:40] enriches my experience of, of life.

Payman Langroudi: What’s been the biggest mistake you’ve made?

Shyun Patel: The [01:47:45] biggest mistake.

Payman Langroudi: Clinically.

Shyun Patel: First. Sure.

Payman Langroudi: Clinically [01:47:50] be perforated.

Shyun Patel: I have perforated. Yeah, I [01:47:55] have perforated.

Payman Langroudi: That’s a moment isn’t it.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. It’s your heart drops. You know.

Payman Langroudi: I have, I have. [01:48:00]

Shyun Patel: But the first time is.

Payman Langroudi: When the blood doesn’t stop at all.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, yeah. I remember the [01:48:05] first time I took out a tooth, uh, fractured it. That was, uh, that was definitely something. [01:48:10] I remember it really, really funny one. I think it was my, my second patient, Liverpool [01:48:15] was really good. My second patient ever had. We had patients, we see patients from first year. And [01:48:20] I remember this one time vividly. Um, I [01:48:25] had a patient and he had, he had two first names. So for the sake of argument, let’s [01:48:30] call him.

Payman Langroudi: Uh, Harry Tom.

Shyun Patel: Like Steven Adams, Steven Steven Adams, [01:48:35] right? His name is Steven Adams. And I go, oh yeah, Steven Adams. Come to the Steven, Steven. [01:48:40] Mr. Steven Adams and I realised about a month in that his name was Adam Stevens. [01:48:45]

Payman Langroudi: Oh.

Shyun Patel: So that was that was one thing. Um I’ve had, I’ve had, you know, [01:48:50] you know, we know each other in Liverpool, so you see some stuff. Mhm. Um but [01:48:55] yeah, clinically I’ve been pretty, pretty sound. But yeah. Breaking routes um exposing [01:49:00] popes. All of that stuff. And, uh.

Payman Langroudi: Which aspect [01:49:05] of dentistry do you like the most at the moment?

Shyun Patel: Do you know what, general? I really enjoy everything in dentistry, but [01:49:10] the thing that sparks excitement to me, which is, you know, ironic because I’ve just talked about breaking roots, [01:49:15] is oral surgery. I really like oral surgery. Don’t know if it’s because it’s more scarce than other things. [01:49:20] And for me at Liverpool Dental School, when I just take it out, I just feel like.

Payman Langroudi: Have you ever cut [01:49:25] a flap?

Shyun Patel: I’ve not done that yet, but I’m grateful to be a [01:49:30] shameless A.D. rep plug. Um, and good friends with like Amit. We [01:49:35] had George at the conference as well. Manraj Rickey So I’ve gone to like ag events where they do mainly [01:49:40] focus on implants and peri dental school is very different. [01:49:45] I don’t know what to say to you. Periodontics is very different. Perio post post-grad and [01:49:50] so much more interesting. So oral surgery, perio implants [01:49:55] went to Shadow Evo not so long ago.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, how’d you find that?

Shyun Patel: I loved it. I really.

Payman Langroudi: Loved it. [01:50:00]

Shyun Patel: No, um.

Payman Langroudi: Just on their program.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. Yeah. No, I know, I did it. I think he, um. [01:50:05] I’d spoken to him about it. Um, but I spoke, I was with a guy called Amar [01:50:10] who also went to my school maybe 15 years before me. And it [01:50:15] was just for me, you know, getting people out of pain. It’s almost a superpower, right? It’s a [01:50:20] superpower that we have that we have a responsibility to do. And there’s a multitude of ways in which we get people out of pain. But [01:50:25] one of the ways is, you know, unfortunately or fortunately, taking out teeth. Yeah. Now, if you [01:50:30] have longitudinal care with a patient, you should take out the teeth and socket. But, but I think something about fixing [01:50:35] that gap with a, with a prosthetic. And that’s where kind of the, the close bracket [01:50:40] of that treatment, it kind of almost feel like when I take a tooth out and the happy and they go away, I almost want to [01:50:45] close that gap. Yeah. And I feel like watching them do full arch implants and just [01:50:50] they’re so skilled and their workflow was amazing. Just set a fire.

Payman Langroudi: And the work is very [01:50:55] important work, you know, like, like giving someone a set of teeth. Yeah. Fix teeth. Yeah. [01:51:00] Change their life. Yeah. Change their life. You understand? Like it’s hard to imagine [01:51:05] for people like you and me. Sure. What it’s like not to have any teeth. Yeah. But. But for [01:51:10] a second, for sure. Go there. Yeah. Imagine. Teeth. Yeah. Like that. [01:51:15] I can’t eat, I can’t kiss, I can’t, you know, these are fundamental. [01:51:20] Even fall in love. Who’s gonna fall in love with the person with no teeth?

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. I can’t fall in love. Like, these [01:51:25] are major issues in life.

Shyun Patel: Of course.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And so, like, the great thing about Implantology [01:51:30] is it’s serious work. Number one, the work itself is serious, but it’s serious consequences [01:51:35] is in good consequences for sure.

Shyun Patel: And I think the fact that.

Payman Langroudi: If you’re into it.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. [01:51:40]

Payman Langroudi: Jump in man. Um, do you think you’re going to be a proper working dentist or have you one of these guys who wants [01:51:45] not to be?

Shyun Patel: You know.

Payman Langroudi: What?

Shyun Patel: From the beginning, I’ll be hand on heart. I love [01:51:50] clinical dentistry, and it’s all good and fine and dandy doing all these other projects [01:51:55] and businesses, but it’s almost like the business aspect of it. So I think people make decisions [01:52:00] a lot on financial. I think people make financial decisions. Most people. I want to do cosmetic dentistry. [01:52:05] Yeah, I like it. But I thought about, I don’t know, peds as well, but I went with it because equal. [01:52:10] But this has paid better. Yeah. A lot of people do that.

Payman Langroudi: I hear that a lot.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. I don’t want finances [01:52:15] to ever be affecting the choice of something I’m passionate about. And so the business [01:52:20] side of it is just keeping me afloat, paying for me to live the business, do the business things. And [01:52:25] that’s why businesses are there. I have a passion for that. But dentistry, I want to think, I want to do implant if I [01:52:30] didn’t get paid.

Payman Langroudi: Like a hobby.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. If I didn’t get paid for it, I genuinely am fulfilled from the work I genuinely fulfilled from [01:52:35] going there and doing dentistry. And of course you can graduate and you don’t know what you don’t know. So I don’t be naive [01:52:40] and say, yeah, I’m going to do this and streamline it and I’ll come back to you. And I’m an orthodontist. Who knows? Um, but [01:52:45] yeah, right now that that’s.

Payman Langroudi: My advice is go like, you know, my advice is opposite [01:52:50] to all your friends, your mentors advice is to, yeah.

Shyun Patel: Tell me, tell me.

Payman Langroudi: Most people say try [01:52:55] lots of things. Decide. Find out what you love and chase that. I’m like, pick [01:53:00] anything.

Shyun Patel: And then just.

Payman Langroudi: Go and get really good at it and you’ll end up loving it.

Shyun Patel: Sure. [01:53:05] That’s very true as well. I think the hardest thing in life is knowing what you want to do and then taking the steps. [01:53:10]

Payman Langroudi: I mean, within dentistry, like if you had some outsider, you know, someone had nothing to [01:53:15] do with our world. Yeah. And he was listening to you and he was like, oh, you can’t make up your mind whether you’re going to focus [01:53:20] on gums or root canals or, or whatever. You know, like restorative [01:53:25] or. Yeah. Can’t make up your mind on that outside of like, what the hell, like get good [01:53:30] at any of them.

Shyun Patel: Do you know what? Even even for me, I like I like general dentistry. I know, I [01:53:35] know, I know, um, maybe a lot of young people I’ve heard speak, like have a speciality. I [01:53:40] like general, I love, I love it and you know what? Even just.

Payman Langroudi: That’s the thing to get really good at. [01:53:45]

Shyun Patel: As well. I’ll tell you one thing as well. Even if I was to have, you know, whatever success in business, [01:53:50] I, I do like the. And I’ve not lived it. So people are probably listening to this like, no, get out. I [01:53:55] like the hustle and bustle of like NHS dentistry. I want to I, [01:54:00] and I think it’s, I think some.

Payman Langroudi: People like it, some people.

Shyun Patel: Like it. I want to build foundations.

Payman Langroudi: Some people like the fast moving [01:54:05] nature of it.

Shyun Patel: I’m not saying forever. I’m not saying forever.

Payman Langroudi: But some people love the fact, the consequences a little bit [01:54:10] less because your patient hasn’t really properly paid for it.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, but I’m not one of those.

Payman Langroudi: Some people like the fact that it gives [01:54:15] you lots of experience very quickly. Yeah. That’s that’s where you’re when you [01:54:20] ask your teachers, they’ll say this. They say, go do something, you know, get your miles in. Yeah. It’s true. [01:54:25] Yeah. Um, but I don’t, I wasn’t into it at all. [01:54:30] I hated it, I hated it. I remember in f d on the first day of f d when they said, [01:54:35] oh this is what, and it was firstly the practice itself, um, [01:54:40] didn’t make me.

Shyun Patel: I know there’s lots of red tape and I know there’s lots to it, but I wonder if [01:54:45] the financial implications. And I know there’s a multitude of maybe things that people want. But if financial [01:54:50] finances were there, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Listen, I’m wrong about this. Yeah, it’s just [01:54:55] my own bias. Yeah. Yeah. But a patient is a patient. Yeah. An NHS [01:55:00] patient needs care.

Shyun Patel: Of course.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And so if you’re involved in the care of that NHS patient, [01:55:05] you know, that’s dentistry. Sure. Yeah. I’m pissed off with third party telling me [01:55:10] what to do.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s between me and the patient. I understand patient’s got a problem. I’m the dentist. I don’t [01:55:15] want any third party telling me what to do. Sure. That’s what really annoys me the most about it.

Shyun Patel: And I think there’s [01:55:20] so much to it. And that’s a conversation we’re having. You know, this three year tie in and all [01:55:25] these things. Because when you’re with the PDSA, you go to these meetings and they have these conversations. [01:55:30] It’s interesting. I don’t know where the industry is going to be for young people.

Payman Langroudi: Do you think you’re going to be one of these DSO types? Would [01:55:35] you like to? Would you like to have multiple practices?

Shyun Patel: I would like to yeah. And it’s not it’s, [01:55:40] uh, I don’t come here thinking that I [01:55:45] can I’m better or I know something more than anyone else, But in my head, I think [01:55:50] you have to believe you can do it. I always say, if you think you’re going to succeed, you might not necessarily succeed. You’re gonna [01:55:55] fail. You’re 100% fail. And and people. My mum always tells me, don’t set expectations. [01:56:00] Expectations so high. You know, you’re gonna be crushed when you don’t get it. And I always say, you know, if you shoot [01:56:05] for the stars, in worst case, you land on the moon.

Payman Langroudi: No, I know, but but like, [01:56:10] some people wouldn’t see multiple practices as the stars.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, sure.

Payman Langroudi: I think for me, [01:56:15] it’s a particular character.

Shyun Patel: For me, I want that because I want to have, um, if [01:56:20] I’m going to go into details more, look, you can run a [01:56:25] single practice in a certain area and a certain demographic with a certain amount of stuff a certain way. Okay. And [01:56:30] for me, I want to have impact. Remember, my goal is to have as much impact. And there’s different [01:56:35] ways you can create a product technology. But for me, you know, having a group practices and impacting dentists, [01:56:40] impacting their day to day, impacting patients, having their own. But if I have one practice run a certain way [01:56:45] and I go Payman run a practice, you go. Well, you don’t know that this is a very specific circumstances. [01:56:50] If I have a practice in Norwich and I practice in London, I practice in Newcastle and I practice in Spain [01:56:55] and they’re all happy, they’re all doing well and they’re all slightly maybe this maybe this kid is [01:57:00] way of and I don’t know this, you know, I could be completely wrong. Maybe the way that he does things works [01:57:05] to some extent. And maybe that’s a selfish thing, like a selfish thing. But I really [01:57:10] want people to have a good experience day to day, because the people [01:57:15] that work for you, they come in and little things.

Payman Langroudi: But, but but, but the, the, let’s say [01:57:20] the vast majority of dentists who start a practice or work in a practice, own [01:57:25] a practice, own one. Mhm. Yeah. One. Sure. And it’s [01:57:30] much easier having a happy workplace in one practice.

Shyun Patel: Sure. [01:57:35]

Payman Langroudi: Than in ten. Sure. Like a much, much, much easier.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, I can imagine that.

Payman Langroudi: So so [01:57:40] if your goal is to have a happy workplace.

Shyun Patel: My goal is to my main goal is to impact as many patients [01:57:45] as possible.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But then impact, I used to say this when I was your age. Yeah. Um, I [01:57:50] hate dentistry for that reason. What my impact is going to be. Yeah. This room and [01:57:55] the people. But impact is as much about depth than it is about breadth. [01:58:00]

Shyun Patel: Sure. And I think.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a difficult.

Shyun Patel: Needle. That’s the balance, right.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a difficult needle to dance on. Yeah. [01:58:05] But you know impact. All right. 10,000 people will download this podcast. [01:58:10] Yeah. Impact. Yeah. Is that is that enough or do you want [01:58:15] sponsorship for this podcast? Is that impact? Sure. Yeah. It’s just a funny thing.

Shyun Patel: How do you find [01:58:20] it? Scaling versus keeping quality because that’s always the balance.

Payman Langroudi: Everything’s everything’s hard, man. Everything’s [01:58:25] hard. Believe you me. Like a hundred practices. Yeah. All working. [01:58:30]

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: It’s a massively difficult thing to pull off massively. We got to, I [01:58:35] don’t know, 29 employees. I remember it was that’s where it was at 29 employees. [01:58:40] We had a massive situation with employees. Yeah. Like someone was bullying some. Some [01:58:45] manager was bullying a bunch of people that we had no idea about. We didn’t know. [01:58:50] Yeah. Yeah. 29.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: In the same building. Yeah. Yeah. Um, [01:58:55] so, so, so my point is it gets harder and harder and harder. Now you’re saying you’re up for hard [01:59:00] things. Great. Yeah. But but you.

Shyun Patel: Have to be aware, I think I think that’s the thing. No, no, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: It’s understanding [01:59:05] like the it’s important that the driving force behind the. [01:59:10]

Shyun Patel: Decision.

Payman Langroudi: That you’re after.

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Is based on something that actually [01:59:15] makes a difference because, you know, like sometimes it’s convenient for it to be, I want to make my parents [01:59:20] proud. Yeah. But your parents are proud.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. No, that’s not the driving factor into the practices, I think. [01:59:25] Look, like you said, you can.

Payman Langroudi: Impact is huge.

Shyun Patel: Yeah. And there’s different ways of making impact. There’s [01:59:30] there’s different ways we all make impact.

Payman Langroudi: I’m still trying to make it.

Shyun Patel: Clinicians clinicians make him back. Clinicians make him back, you know. [01:59:35] Um, but.

Payman Langroudi: You know, you know, one of the things that dentistry does have that a lot of professions don’t is [01:59:40] that sort of Heartfelt thank you from a patient. Yeah, [01:59:45] you’d be amazed the number of professions that don’t have that. Yeah, yeah. Like if your lawyer does a great job [01:59:50] for you, sometimes your accountant does a great job for you. It’s not it’s not the same heartfelt. Thank [01:59:55] you. Yeah. And so what I’m saying is some of some of the golden bits about being a dentist. Yeah. [02:00:00] Are less impactful than you might realise. Yeah. And so impact [02:00:05] on one person. One person. Sure. Deep impact on one person [02:00:10] might be more important than shallow impact on a thousand.

Shyun Patel: And that’s why I’ll never give up clinical [02:00:15] dentistry. Yeah. Because I think there’s different impact you get. People say like, what makes you happy? It’s not [02:00:20] one thing. It’s not one thing that makes you happy. There’s some things on a really high frequency that make [02:00:25] you happy. Some things like going on a walk make you happy. Yeah. And so for me, like.

Payman Langroudi: For me, depth [02:00:30] of impact has become much more interesting to me than breadth of impact as I’ve gotten older. [02:00:35]

Shyun Patel: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. When you’re young, you just feel like, oh.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, I.

Payman Langroudi: Practice [02:00:40] in every city in the world.

Shyun Patel: And I think that as you get as I get older, you know, where I start [02:00:45] and where I end may not be because you learn things and you change. I’m not, I’ve [02:00:50] got, I’ve got, I think I’ve got a good balance of being focussed, but also being open that the [02:00:55] thing I think is the right thing to do may not be the right thing to do. Yeah. And I have one conversation that could change that or I could [02:01:00] start this. This is not really what I wanted. This isn’t worth it. This isn’t the goal. And then [02:01:05] you change. And being adaptable, I think they say, I think they said this century the best skill [02:01:10] to have is to be adaptable. Things change so quickly.

Payman Langroudi: Darwin.

Shyun Patel: Right? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Um, what about what stands [02:01:15] out as the best lecture you’ve been to? Like what comes to mind if I say what’s a lecture that stands [02:01:20] out?

Shyun Patel: Do you know what I think? Just [02:01:25] something that someone said in the lecture. So, uh, Christian Joshi did a lecture. It [02:01:30] was in a clinical lecture at the dentistry show. And he said something. He goes, you can’t connect the [02:01:35] dots forward. You can only connect them backwards.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Shyun Patel: That’s true. And it really just made me think, [02:01:40] you know what? I’m sitting here trying to plan doing this, this, this. So this is gonna be, I don’t know, all I can do is [02:01:45] sit here now and be like, that happens. I can meet this person. So this could happen. And so they say [02:01:50] what life can only be live forward, but only make sense backwards. And the way he just emulated that really just made me think, [02:01:55] you know, yeah, plan. But also you don’t know what’s going to happen. [02:02:00] You just sometimes have to go with the flow.

Payman Langroudi: What about.

Shyun Patel: Clinical. Clinical I would say. Manraj [02:02:05] Kalsi and Ricky Bhopale I [02:02:10] went to the a d I went to like a the road show and [02:02:15] just some of the ways they were talking about implants. And for me, it’s interesting that, [02:02:20] um, I, that for me was like really, really [02:02:25] informative. It’s a whole day hands on, but some of the stuff they were talking about, some things they could do, some things I didn’t know were possible. [02:02:30] And then that partnered with my experience at Evo where it wasn’t really a lecture, but I thought the whole day was kind of a lecture learning [02:02:35] experience. Um, really for me stood up.

Payman Langroudi: What about like, what’s your favourite resource? [02:02:40] Like it could be anything. It could be a book, it could be a website. It could be a [02:02:45] Instagram page.

Shyun Patel: Um. I’d say [02:02:50] Instagram in general is a, is a big resource. And I’d say as [02:02:55] much as I want to pinpoint it to, to one thing, uh, the multitude of different, different Instagrams, [02:03:00] um, some of the, you know, I look at some guys in, [02:03:05] in London or America really good at marketing. Some guys have really good clinical cases here. Um, I [02:03:10] think, yeah, there’s no, there’s no specific Instagram page, but the more [02:03:15] of them all together and then, you know, little things like, um, revising for exams [02:03:20] and also like, I know it sounds quite cliche, but the BSP and all these guidelines you can [02:03:25] read and just stay on top of them and yeah, standard resources.

Payman Langroudi: And [02:03:30] what would you say is your hero?

Shyun Patel: My hero. Um, [02:03:35] I’d probably say my hero is my dad. I [02:03:40] said, my dad’s my hero because. [02:03:45] From [02:03:50] achieving success, but coming from a humble background made me realise that no [02:03:55] matter where you go, who you become, where you come from, you should always, like, stay [02:04:00] grounded. He’s values people. He [02:04:05] always puts people first, even at the detriment of himself, which, you know, there’s a healthy balance. And I think [02:04:10] just having that humility in life, it’s so easy, especially not to get caught up in [02:04:15] noise and stuff. And I always say, you know, you [02:04:20] can go around dental school and it’s great. And people say shine, they shine that. But when I come home to my friends, [02:04:25] some of them are tradies, some of them are lawyers, some of them are unemployed. Go [02:04:30] home to the same pub, and in that pub we’re all we’re all the same. We’re all just a bunch of losers. Just [02:04:35] sat with our pint in our jackets and old friends. Yeah. And it’s just like, you know what? No matter what, I always want to [02:04:40] have those core values of what’s important in life, what’s important in my. Why did I choose to do dentistry? [02:04:45] Why not choose to do business? You know, keep in sight of the core values and not getting [02:04:50] caught up because when you’re young, when I was in first year, you can get caught up in university and things, but as I got older, I think [02:04:55] they were important things in life. My dad reiterates to me, you know, you’ve done all the successful. No, we’re just gonna, [02:05:00] you know, my mum as well. My mom’s are always six to a bag, which won’t like me saying this, but she’ll freeze milk, [02:05:05] you know, you know, my parents doing okay, but because it’s, you know, we can’t waste food. [02:05:10] And these are important, right? You just you can’t just waste life, not be grateful [02:05:15] for little things and recycle clothes and do your part for the community. These things are important. [02:05:20] So I think, yeah, my dad especially makes sure that I stay on the straight [02:05:25] and narrow.

Payman Langroudi: That’s nice. My buddy. Yeah. Fantasy dinner party, three guests. Who you got. [02:05:30]

Shyun Patel: First I’m going to say Sam Altman. [02:05:35] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think we like him. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Would you like the product?

Shyun Patel: I like [02:05:40] the product, but I want to know, like I said, what mine take what? What mind? Um, [02:05:45] you know.

Payman Langroudi: Y Combinator.

Shyun Patel: Yes yes yes yes [02:05:50] yes. And just talk to him about his story, how [02:05:55] he thinks, how he got to where he is and just how he sees the future going. Because I think [02:06:00] AI is really shaping not just like things, but education and how we process education, information, [02:06:05] everything.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Shyun Patel: Uh, then second to that. Okay. [02:06:10] So let’s take Sam Altman as someone that’s going to represent my future, someone that’s going to represent [02:06:15] my past. I’d say someone like, uh, Marcus Aurelius, right?

Payman Langroudi: The stoic. [02:06:20]

Shyun Patel: Yeah, the stoic principles of life. And one thing, Marcus, I like touching on the, [02:06:25] the last point about my dad is that he had a slave. Have you heard this? Yeah. The slave that he used [02:06:30] to ride on his chariot. And, he was a Roman emperor. Everyone used to like, you know, his head get massive and, you know, like [02:06:35] hubris. You know, the thing that makes you great could also kill you. And he had a slave that sit behind him in his chariot, and [02:06:40] he’d whisper to him, um, you’re just a man. You’re just a man. And I [02:06:45] quite like that. And I think, you know, sometimes just you’ve got to realise, you know, you just had to be yourself. [02:06:50] But I’m just a just a kid, you know, I’m just figuring it out. I’m not. Nothing more. Nothing less good on the stream. [02:06:55] No, no.

Payman Langroudi: You were a popular kid for a couple of days after the essay.

Shyun Patel: Yeah, but, you know, you [02:07:00] know what? It’s just my friends are the same friends. You know, everyone. Everyone. Everyone can be friends. Um. [02:07:05]

Payman Langroudi: And who’s the third?

Shyun Patel: The third would be da [02:07:10] Vinci. Oh, yeah. Um.

Payman Langroudi: Just the, the different things he invented.

Shyun Patel: Just [02:07:15] just I don’t like being put in a box. And, you know, he did anatomy and art and science, and I thought [02:07:20] he pushed limits on all sides and I thought someone else could do it. Why couldn’t I do it? How [02:07:25] did he balance the three? And, uh, yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So, you know, since since you are [02:07:30] at that age and, you know, we had this series going on future Leaders [02:07:35] kind of series. Nice. Three years time. If everything went [02:07:40] perfectly for you, what would it look like? Or if it a bit longer? Five [02:07:45] years time.

Shyun Patel: Five years time? No, I don’t [02:07:50] want to jump too far to think, but I, I would hope that I’m, you know, still [02:07:55] working five six days. I. Would [02:08:00] hope to have a couple clinics at that point [02:08:05] and just enjoying life, but finding the understanding that I’m content where [02:08:10] I’m at and that everything I’m doing is for the right reasons and not [02:08:15] because I’m chasing some unattainable goal and getting lost in it. So yeah, I think enjoying [02:08:20] dentistry.

Payman Langroudi: Clinics.

Shyun Patel: Three. We’ll [02:08:25] see. Maybe I’ll leave my. I’ll probably eat my words. Who knows? [02:08:30] I’ll have some clarity and go down a different route. But yeah, that’s I think.

Payman Langroudi: Are you Underpromising and Overdelivering? Is [02:08:35] that is that the.

Shyun Patel: I’m being extremely delusional based off nothing. So we’ll see. Uh, [02:08:40] not.

Payman Langroudi: That it’s a joke to have two clinics in five years out. Not that it’s a joke, but I just feel like you’re [02:08:45] going to be accelerated a little bit.

Shyun Patel: We’ll have to see. You know, I’ll have to believe it for it to happen. [02:08:50]

Payman Langroudi: Amazing. Well, I’ve had a really interesting time.

Shyun Patel: Talking to you. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Payman Langroudi: It’s been an [02:08:55] easy, easy conversation.

Shyun Patel: It’s been a good two hours.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [02:09:00] really been simple. I really appreciate I learned a lot my buddy. I learned a lot. Thank you.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening guys. [02:09:05] Hope you enjoyed today’s episode. Make sure you tune in for future episodes. Hit subscribe [02:09:10] in iTunes or Google Play or whatever platform it is. And [02:09:15] you know, we really, really appreciate it. If you would, um, give.

Payman Langroudi: Us a six star rating.

Prav Solanki: Six star [02:09:20] rating. That’s what I always leave my Uber driver.

Payman Langroudi: Thanks [02:09:25] a lot, guys.

Prav Solanki: Bye.