[00:00:00] Obviously, when it comes to implant dentistry, it’s a very critical field if you place your implant one millimetre to labial, the whole thing going to fan and you’re going to get Middleville recession. So it makes or break the case, the correct implant positioning. It’s like domino effect. If the first block isn’t drive, everything else would be wrong. So when it comes to implant dentistry, it’s all about plotting, planning, planning, planning and sharing that plan with your mentor, discussing double checking and having no ego whenever you get ego playing. That’s when things go wrong.

[00:00:44] This is Dental Leaders podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders and dentistry. Your heist’s Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[00:01:01] It’s my great pleasure to welcome Hassan McGeary onto the podcast, one of the foremost authorities on implant ology and the country teacher. Been a long time. I’ve watched Hassan from a distance for a long time. Your reputation is growing and growing, but lovely to have you on the show. Hassan, you know this podcast, we try and get to the back story. So let’s start with that. What was your childhood like? Where were you born? What were you like as a kid? Was the first time you looked at dentistry?

[00:01:32] Thank you so much. Payman Prav for the kind invitation privilege to be one of your guests on Dental Leaders podcast. I was born in Malcolm Lancaster, and when I was two or three years old, my parents moved back to Jordan. My dad was a urologist at the time, having his training in England and Scotland. And then I grew up in Jordan, did my high school in Jordan. And I’ve always wanted to be like my dad because for me, my dad is my hero. He’s the one who’s been there for us. He’s the one who’s always, you know, even in the extended family. He’s the one people come to him for his advice. So I’ve always wanted to be a surgeon like him, a urologist even. And I remember when I was 15, 16 years old, I would go and join him in his theatre just to watch him operating. And I did my high school and I’ve applied for medicine and I had to go to university, is accepting me one in Cairo, in Egypt and in Belfast, and obviously I wanted to come to Belfast. And my mom at the time, she didn’t want me to be far away from her. So she sort of convinced me to go to Cairo because it’s only an hour flight from Amman, Jordan, where I grew up in Jordan. It’s a funny story. I landed to Cairo and then the procedure was for me to go to the Jordanian embassy, get my paperwork, and then go to the to the medical school so I can start my journey. Funnily enough, I went to the embassy and I found my papers prepared to go to the Dental school, not medical school.

[00:03:23] And I was a bit upset. And I remember making a bit of a scene in front of the ambassador and the counsellor and even accusing the ambassador of being corrupt person, taking my position in the medical school, passing it to someone else of his relatives and moving me to the Dental school. So the ambassador at the time, actually, he was really nice kind person. He sort of let me talk and talk and talk for long, five minutes. And then at the end he said, Have you finished my son? And I said, Yes, I have. And he was like, Right. Your dad called me two days ago and asked me to move you to the Dental school. And I did this because of your dad’s request. And I was like, oh my God, I literally wish the Earth would just open and swallow me. I’ve felt so embarrassed because I was there full of passion, talking and shouting for five minutes, and then realised that it was my dad who put the request behind the scenes that I’d be moved to the Dental school, not medical school. So I went back and called my dad and said, Dad, why did you do this? And obviously for me, dad is my hero, so I always trust him. But I felt so bad about him doing this behind the scenes. And at the time, he talked to me and he said, Hassan, I know you very well, you’re not going to do well in medical school. You don’t like long surgeries. You are you’re an artistic person. Because when I was young, since I was young, I always like to draw and craft things.

[00:05:04] And, you know, my dad watched me being an artistic person and apparently my dad’s best friend was a dentist. And my dad always admired the lifestyle of that dentist. You know, my dad would be called in the middle of the night to go and see emergency patients and hospital and all that. And somehow I felt he envied his best friend, the dentist. So he made that decision. And obviously, in the Middle Eastern culture, you would respect your dad’s wishes. And John Dentistry in Cairo University, but I always loved surgery, so the first thing I’ve done the moment I finish my dentistry, I’ve sort of written and sent my CVS to Max Fox units in the U.K. and I started my oral surgery training because I wanted to come back to surgery. Funny enough, I worked in hospital for three, No. Four, five years as senior house officer and then as a staffer, great. And I reach a point in my life when I realise I don’t like hospital life. I felt bored. I I felt there was no challenge for me. You know, I didn’t like the fact I had the boss. I don’t like the fact that it’s like six hours. I need to give six week notice before I go on holiday. And I felt that’s not me. So I told my dad, he said, Dad, you know what? You were right. I’m going to go back to my dentist. And the guy just shows you that, you know, parents. No, no. You know, they know us very well. And this is my story.

[00:06:52] What a great story. It’s really interesting what you say that has done. I think me and Payman have been having conversations about bringing up children. Right. And also as a 20 something year olds thinking we would like. Yeah, the whole thing. And Dad would say to me, don’t do this, do that. I’m doing this for your own good, whatever. Yeah, but but then we thought well I thought at the time he was just being an arsehole. OK, that was my brother. In our culture we’ve got the respect and we follow whatever I guess. But looking back, you see all the reasoning behind it and why you’ve ended up where you are and all the rest of it and now is having that conversation with our kids new generation. Things have changed through and you kind of think, I do know that. But for me, I’m thinking they’ve got to figure it out for themselves. They’ve got to make their own mistakes, even though we know what’s what’s right. OK, and in ten years time, I’m going to say I told you so.

[00:07:55] I know. I know. But, you know, I think somehow my dad wanted the best for me and he knew me very well. And interestingly enough, I have my youngest brother. His call on my dad encouraged him to go to urology and he’s now urology urologist, consultant in Germany. So somehow my dad knew that Hasan is better as an artist, as a dentist, while Omar is better as a surgeon, as a urologist. And I respect him for that. I really respect him for that.

[00:08:30] So how sad. By that time that was your move to the UK, right? Doing all that. All surgery.

[00:08:34] Yes. Yes. Back in two thousand and two thousand and one.

[00:08:39] So then were you when you when you thought I’m going to leave hospital dentistry, were you thinking implant surgery, was that a predetermined thing or did you go and start doing some scale and polishers.

[00:08:52] Interesting. One thing, one thing. I mean, don’t get me wrong, when I did my junior training, I did it. I told Royal Infirmary in East Yorkshire and I had an amazing consultant. I still remember him. Chris Blackburn, he was the most human Max Fox consultant you would ever meet. And I enjoyed that. But then I started shadowing one of the other consultants doing Dental implants. And that’s when I start to like doing dental implants. And I remember going back to Jordan in the summer attending some dental implant courses because believe it or not, Dental implants in Jordan were so much more popular than UK in the private practise. And I remember I was very young doing my first dental implant for my mother under supervision of a mentor over there in Jordan. And I thought, this is what I like. You know, the beauty about dental implants. It’s a mix of everything, proper treatment planning, which is to do with dentistry, prosthetic work and then surgery and then a bit of perio management and then bit of mechanics and a bit of prosthodontics planning and such as finishing the cases. So for me, that made sense. A mixture of everything. I like everything. I loved art, dentistry and oral surgery. So yeah, I was kleve. And that’s why the moment I finished my hospital job, I went and joined my MASC at Manchester University. We were the first cohort at the time where we had two fantastic course directors, Paul Coulthart, who’s a maxillofacial surgeon, and Marco Esposito, who’s like a big figure in the world of evidence based implant dentistry.

[00:10:49] You know, people do good things and people marqués positive things when it comes to implant dentistry. He’s written more randomised controlled trials and implant dentistry more than anyone else in the world. So I was lucky to have them both, but I had a clear vision, I now remember my first day in my MCE were going to introduce myself to Marko telling him, Marco, I’m your student in this two year MFC course. And he was like, Hello, my son. And I said, I’m not here for the embassy. I’m here to be like you. I want to be a lecturer. I want to publish. I want to do research. I want to be someone who’s teaching in dentistry just like you. And this is day one, MFC. And he looked at me top to bottom. As a kid, you haven’t even started what you’re talking about. But then this is the thing behind the scenes. Even when I was at high school, I would always go. I was very active as a scout and I always had a passion for teaching leadership. And I love that I used to go and teach English for the younger people. I used to go and teach science. So teaching being been part of my passion all the time. And for me, to be honest, MASC was not a target as much as just a little step towards achieving my passion. And that’s why I did my M.S. and dentistry.

[00:12:21] I had to play some implants and hospitals already or not.

[00:12:25] Yes, but it was completely different to what we do now because, you know, we’re talking about two thousand and five where even Maxford surgeons would just follow the bone. Obviously now implant dentistry is completely different. It’s all about what we call reverse treatment planning. You find the prosthetic envelop, you decide where it’s the ideal position for that perfect restoration. And then you check the bone and the body’s in there. You grow the bone. While in the past it used to be like put an implant wherever the bone is and send best wishes to the prosthodontics. It’s different. It’s different nowadays.

[00:13:08] Hassan, you spoke about your international sort of exposure to implant ology in Amman. And I remember once at the Dubai show, I saw you lecturing there and there was a massive fall. I wanted to have a chat with you about to wake. Wait, I know

[00:13:22] I remember that

[00:13:24] Because so many people were coming up to you, but you’ve got kind of a global angle on implant ology. Where are we now in the UK? Because last time I saw ElectraNet, we had fewer implants going in per head than Germany, France, all of all of Europe. Have we caught up on

[00:13:42] That through my personal

[00:13:47] And we have good with it is what do you guys see as the future? I mean, on the one hand, people are living longer and so they’re going to need more input. On the other hand, people aren’t losing t is implant ology something that’s going to get bigger or smaller ultimately for me?

[00:14:04] Yes. I mean, my personal opinion that UK is still behind compared to the rest of the world when it comes to the number of implants being placed per population. And that’s to do obviously, I think, with the fact we don’t have enough courses training younger people in implant dentistry. The undergrads have very little training on implant dentistry as part of their five year curriculum. And I think people in the UK for a long time being very conservative when it comes to implant dentistry. Having said that, more recently, you could see things are changing. Now, we have great figures in the world of implant dentistry in the U.K., the level of aesthetic implant dentistry is picking up and starting to compete on a global level. And that’s from the quality point of view, from the quantity. Yes, I totally agree with you. We still have huge, huge space for more implants in the UK market. And that’s why I think a young dentist who has passion for surgery to do is to get into implant dentistry and, you know, go to Germany, Italy. Every single practise will have an in-house implant dentist. I don’t think we have this still in the UK. And therefore, I you know, I think for a long time in the UK implant dentistry is going to be a very popular field of dentistry. And also not to mention like people lose teeth, like it or not. And because, as you said, people are living longer now. People are thought to be more aware of their health. In a recent statistics from the American Academy of Dentistry, they said about 70 percent or 65 percent of people who are of our age in the in the early 30s.

[00:16:10] Right. Will this number of people, 65 percent of people in their 40s will lose a single tooth? This is in the States. And I think we could apply the same in UK, if not more. And people are more educated. I start to get people coming to me and say my dentist wanted to give me a bridge. I don’t want to have a bridge. I want to have an input. And you know what? GDC makes it clear, even if you don’t place implants, you should mention as one of the treatment options, otherwise you could be in trouble. So I still believe UK is one of the best places to start and dentistry. And what I like about employing dentistry in UK, unlike Italy, unlike Germany, that we’re focussing on quality, we’re still expensive. So as a dentist, you can still charge more and spend more time with your dentist, with your patient and focus on quality. And actually implant dentistry is much, much cheaper. And obviously, when you do things cheaper, that means you cannot afford giving a lot of time for that specific patient because you have to just do things quicker and that’s where things start to go wrong. Now, I have heard that UK is maybe after Netherland, the second most expensive place to have an implant as a patient, which is good news for us as dentists, because, as I said, it allows us to focus on quality and give our patients the time they need so we can achieve top standards and dentistry.

[00:17:56] So so hasn’t the whole thing about us being behind on implants, the two things that are bouncing around my head and one, you’ve just you’ve just brought to the surface, which is price. And could that be a factor as to the number of implants going into people’s heads? And the second thing is something that resonates with me all the time in any aspects of my life is you don’t know what you don’t know. And so there’s so many dentists out there who see a missing tooth and the only thing they know to prescribe is a bridge or a partial. And this whole thing about actually there’s a lot of dentists out there that don’t even know that’s an option. And certainly in my own clinic, we see a lot of patients that come in with loose dentures. Right. They don’t even know implants exist yet. When you explain to them that you could have an implant, assisted denture or fixed teeth, it’s like you just won the lottery in terms of the excitement on their face, in terms of the possibilities of being able to eat food again, the possibilities of being able to throw away actually. Yeah. How much of how much of this do you think relates to people not knowing, dentists not knowing what they don’t know, patients not knowing what they don’t know and then expense.

[00:19:13] Prav, this is an amazing point, and I’d like to build on this and say it is not an excuse nowadays you cannot be a dentist without building some knowledge about implant dentistry. OK, even if you if you know, it’s not for you, you’re not a surgeon. You don’t want to get involved in implant dentistry. You need to at least build a minimum level of knowledge about implants, dental implants, because as we said, and I know this is a true story, friend of mine, young graduate. So this patient giving him a fantastic three unit bridge, this patient goes down, like to meet his friends in a pub and apparently one of the other friends had an implant. And it’s a true story. Patient comes back after a year complaining to that lady why she didn’t offer him an implant and bless that lady decided to keep it in-house because she knew if he goes to the GDC, she’s in trouble. She decided to pay me to give him an implant instead of his bridge. So it’s happening, you know, so it is not and it’s not an excuse for the dentist, not to mention dental implants nowadays. Now, on the other aspect, I think what’s happening, though, is that people are not comfortable mentioning or talking in detail about dental implants because there is a fine balance between offering to the patients what they need and being. And you don’t want to be seen as a hard sell person. You’re not you know, with dentists we don’t want to sell. And that’s is where things go wrong. I’m talking about over dentures.

[00:20:57] I’m in the middle of preparing a lecture for part of my implant course and it wasn’t over dentures. And whatever you update the lectures, you go on the research. And I found some interesting research showing that, well, number one, we had what we called Magal consensus. So a group of prosthodontics more than ten years ago met in McGill in Canada on a global level. And they decided or they came up with a consensus that the absolute minimum standard of care for someone with a Dental, a lower jaw is to implants and over densha. So between two brackets, giving them a conventional lower Dental is inhuman. This is according to make it now, you might say, oh, these are Canadians. These are Americans. Now, the same group met in York a few years ago and had the second consensus with the British society of prosthodontics, and they confirmed these findings. So I said as a dentist, you should not be offering, according to the Dental literature and evidence based research, he should not be offering lower dentures, conventional dentures to our human patients. That’s No. One further. Furthermore, interestingly, they did a research comparing conventional dentures with implant dentures. And this research basically based on patient satisfaction and meeting expectations. And they found people with lower implantable dentures will have better quality of life, better stomach, better ability to chew and believe it or not, better ability to enjoy sexual activities. So they asked him about that and they said even sexual activities, kissing and all that has improved with people who were restored with improved dentures and a

[00:23:00] Sign

[00:23:02] That, well, the patient surveys, they go to them and they literally they ask them how many times in the last week you you’ve slept with your partner compared to those with conventional dentures. This is evidence based research implants, man, dental and dental implants, nothing else.

[00:23:27] Hassan, I’m just about to change my entire marketing strategy around me.

[00:23:33] I’m happy to share that research with you. And it’s part of my lecture. So, yeah, it’s there.

[00:23:40] Let me ask you something about two things. You’ve got you’ve got you’ve got the students who you teach now. Yeah. And you’ve got the people who like me as a dentist. When I was a dentist, I had absolutely no interest in becoming a surgeon. And that’s the reason I went to dentistry so that I wouldn’t come across surgery. What was the idea? I do. I don’t want to be that guy. So of those two categories and you said especially what you said about the GDC and dentists having to know the basics of implant ology, what are the. The things that a lot of people don’t know about Implant told you that they really should. Let me give you an example in my world. There’s a common myth. All bleaching gels are saying, yeah, yeah. I mean, if once you try three or four or five with 20 years experience, that’s absolutely not true. But on the surface of it, you might think that because they’re named by percentages. So what in your world, first for the group, the choose implant allergy and come in. What’s one misconception they’ve got? And what about the other group who don’t choose it? And what what, what? For instance, I don’t know about grafting teleportation. Is there enough bone there or not.

[00:24:53] So pay if I may just divert the question first into what do we expect from a general dentists in UK to know about implant dentistry? All right. I would like to look at you as a dentist. You have a choice of one out of three levels. Level one, which is the basic minimum level, is to know that dental treatment is a treatment modality and speciality. It’s the treatment option should be mentioned to every patient before having your tooth out, OK, because the last thing you want is coming to you and say, should I have known the implant? Is that expensive, I wouldn’t have had that tooth removed. So it’s something you need to mention even before taking the tooth that OK, you say, right, Mr. Smith, you’re having this, too, that today and your treatment options are Densher pros and cons adhesive breg pros and cons, fixed breg pros and cons, Dental and pros and cons. And there are all or nothing. Exactly. And there are courses out there, whether they’re online or one day or evenings, which will provide you this level of knowledge. OK, so it is not an excuse not to know this. And then level to say, you know what, I have a restorative dentist, I enjoy being a multidisciplinary dentist, but I don’t want to do surgery. So you can choose to restore dental implants and be involved in the planning for dental implant as part of a multidisciplinary case.

[00:26:40] And then level three is to say, do you know what my patients like me, my patient, trust me. And I do mostly every aspect of the of dentistry. So I want to keep my implant patients in-house. And then you could then attend one of these courses, which will teach you from A to Z, like the course we run at the Barrett Academy. We take people assuming they’ve never done a flap or suture in their life, and then we go through an intensive one year course where we go, then take them from basic level to the advanced level, because according to the international team of entomology, which is the biggest global organisation to do with dental implants, the cases are classified into simple or straightforward. Sorry, there’s nothing, nothing simple. Let’s call it straightforward, advanced and complex. The moment you move to the interior region, it’s called advanced. And you and I know most of our patients in the United Kingdom will be more worried about a gap if it’s in the anterior region. So I go and tell my delegates that the bread and butter of dentistry in the United Kingdom at the moment is advanced cases in the anterior region. And that’s why in the course we teach straightfoward an advance in one year, OK, because it’s not fair just to know the straightforward and then struggle later on to learn the advance.

[00:28:15] Now, when we go to your questions, if you go back to your question, people need to understand that the success criteria for dentistry has completely changed since they were first introduced in the mid 80s compared to what we have now in the mid 80s. If their flight is fully integrated and it’s not causing pain and there isn’t massive bone loss or pus discharge, that’s success nowadays. It’s all about the peak. It’s all about the peak aesthetics around the dental implants. So if anything doesn’t look natural and doesn’t integrate with the surrounding soft tissue and bone of the natural teeth, this is failure. And to get into that, you need to follow a strict system. You don’t need to be super experienced to tackle these cases. As long as you have a system you follow without cutting corners, without compromising. And this is where we go. And plus are not all the same, 100 percent in all the same. You know, there are premium and plus systems which have good surfaces, good internal connexion. They give you less leakage and there are cheaper systems which basically you cannot maintain the bone level around them and you cannot maintain healthy soft tissue around them. And obviously there are many other factors such such as patient selection, such as plotty prosthetic, reversible of planning and all these aspects, like

[00:29:51] That’s something that I’m just going to go back to the basic requirements of the GDP. I think what you’re saying is really, really important and it really resonates with conversations I’ve had with a completely different discipline. Orthodontics, right. He says that he will not sit in your chair for a Check-Up unless you have a reasonable basic understanding of orthodontics and how to move all the time. Not not that you can fit Sprocket’s in wires and all the rest of it, but that you will understand the basic concepts and also you understand the teeth are always moving, etc., etc.. And I think you’re probably saying the same thing, that as a general dentist, there is a responsibility to at least understand treatment options, the basics of treatment planning, even if you can’t carry it out. Now, that’s clearly not that’s not happening today. Even a lot of dentists that I speak to today, you mentioned the word orthodontics and instils fear, right. That’s an orthodontist job. You mention the word implants and that’s blood and surgery. And it creates fear amongst some dentists. What do you think needs to change with the curriculum? Make maybe even before postgraduate education right in your site in order to create what I would deem to be a. Complete GDP. OK, well rounded, complete GDP, who would come to the surface to know that actually, you know, if you’ve got a missing tooth, as you said earlier, these your options, if you’re missing all your teeth, is meant to do this. Yeah. What do you think needs to change curriculum wise? Does that need to be like in your one year postgrad fundamental training? Does something need to be introduced at Dental school, a basic level? What are your thoughts on that, being a teacher in the field? What do you think needs to change?

[00:31:53] To be honest, Prav to be fair. I mean, I know the curriculum varies from one Dental school to another. Let’s make that clear. And I know some Dental schools start to integrate more sort of lectures, more focussed on Dental influence. But definitely as a dentist, forget about treatment options. Let’s say, you know, anyone can say, yeah, you’ve got a job, I’m going to send you to unemployment dentists to have a look. But imagine let’s have a scenario. You’re doing a Check-Up, right? And as you do the Check-Up, there are two Dental implants in this patient’s mouth. And somehow you have a duty as a dentist to check is everything OK or not? Because the idea of the check up is prevention better than cure and just pop things at early stage. So you as a dentist, you need to somehow have the knowledge of. Right. What is a successful and what looks like and what is an unhealthy implant looks like. And, you know, it’s a huge debate. Do we probe, do we not probe the how do we know this is Pierrepont Mucositis or per implant itis? Is that implant crowd fully seated or not fully seated? Is it loose? You know, there are so many things as a dentist you need to work on to be able to provide the absolute minimum. And it will be really nice, as you said, if this is a straight forward information are incorporated within the undergrad curriculum,

[00:33:38] Let’s do our bit. Let’s do our bit to to redress that. What do you do? Do you prefer that you are OK?

[00:33:45] This it it depends on which school you belong to. OK, now there is one school which says you should probe because probing is one of the most important things to double check whether the patient has some sort of gum disease about your implant, because bleeding on probing is one of the early signs of disease around the dental implant. Now, the other school says, well, actually, we know that the sulcus around that implant is a very weak sulcus with no proper dates. So if you if you put a carrier probe that you might initiate a trauma and introduce bacteria into the area. So personally, the way I do it, the way I’ve been doing doing it for a long time and teaching, I say we need to use the Perry probe, but rather than go and sort of go epically, I would just get my period in the initial part of the sulcus, which is the one millimetre, and then start to move sort of in circumferential movement, because by doing this, if the gum is not healthy, it will bleed. And that would be a sign. But without needing to disturb the energy he made this Muzzammil attachment or the sort of deep connective tissue attachment. Having said that, what I also do if I see there is a bit of bleeding and I’m a bit worried I would remove my crown and then I will get my period probe and I start checking for loss of attachment around the implant itself in a direct vision. OK, because there is no way you can probe and implant with the tooth on the top or what you do. Are you proposing a metal abutment? Unless you have a fibre optic flexible Perrier probe which goes around the emergence profile of your apartment. So for that reason, nowadays there is a huge shift into screw retained restorations which are easy to retrieve. And then you would go and check the loss of attachment around your Dental itself. But then according to that

[00:36:03] At the top and my qualified to do that or not. Well, this is probably the glass and I refer

[00:36:10] I would say that if there is a bit of bleeding, I would say go to the patient, say, all right, we have. An early sign of gum disease, I think you definitely will need to go and see your dentist, and if anything, I tend to educate my referrals to say, you know what, your life safety net, you just spot things go wrong or just spot things that early stage and leave it for me to treat and manage. Because usually this sort of management is going to be offered complementary to my patients who come on regular basis. So it doesn’t cost us much, but the earlier we intervene, the better.

[00:36:56] And what about what about the maintenance from the hygiene perspective? Do you believe in metal instruments or plastic ones or what?

[00:37:03] Let me tell you something, and this is in agreement with Marcus postictal and another perfect friend and mentor, Crowfoot Bain, who’s a professor I’ve met in Dubai. He used to be the head of the department in Dubai and now moves back to Glasgow. And I’m proud to have him as one of the speakers on our birth course. What we say we would rather have is scratched and clean abutment rather than polished and dirty abutment as simple as that. So for me, cleaning is priority. OK, yes, we do have now a titanium hand scalars which are good. But sometimes if you need to use ultrasonic, I have no issues with using a proper ultrasonic, even with a metal tap. Nice.

[00:37:55] When you have these people on your course. How many was the cohort number.

[00:38:00] Well, I mean, interestingly enough, we used to run one cohort every year and we would go from 15 to 16. And during the lockdown we noticed lots of dentist has made the decision to upscale and all of a sudden our courses start to be such a huge demand. So now we run to cohort’s and we have 20 dentists on each cohort. So we’ve improved the infrastructure. We improve the number of mentors, we increase the number of mentors, and we are running to cohort’s every year. And yeah, we do it one in October, one in January. Usually dentist needs to book one year in advance because our October cohort is fully booked and our January 22 is now half booked.

[00:38:53] So what’s the worst investment in time and money?

[00:38:58] Well, that’s a good question, because there are different courses and one of the main issues, like people want to learn and plans and they don’t know where to go. And for me, you either start right or you don’t start. So there are different courses who have different durations. And then we can talk about another question, MSE or one year course that we can talk about in a few moments now, because, as I said, I made a decision to incorporate straightforward and advanced skills in the one year because I personally feel to be successful and dentists in the private sector, you need to tackle entier cases properly, because what happens is some people go and do the straightforward courses and then they don’t have the skills to tackle anti-terror cases. They still do that and they have failures. So our course is nine modules each module three days, so twenty seven days over a nine month period. And in our course we will provide our delegates with patients and Implats. So as part of the course, each delegate will be allocated patients to treatment plan and then later on to place in place for them and then later on to restore these cases. And then they document the cases and they present it in our final exam, which is an exam we do in front of an external exam.

[00:40:27] Every year we will invite one of the deans, one of the authorities, and implant dentistry in UK as an external examiner just to add validation to the course. And then we have an optional module ten, where we go to Athens for the weekend. And once they develop the knowledge they want, if they want to increase their experience, they come with us to Athens, where each dentist plays more than six to seven, plus get involved in another twenty five implants altogether. On top of that, this is the most important part we have in nationwide mentoring scheme because pay one thing, developing the knowledge and one thing getting the theory and having initial training, unless you start placing importance in your practise, you will never be a successful employer dentist. So we strongly believe in providing mentors who will visit the participants in their own practise, help them to sort of plan, start an entire career within that practise and then we mentor them. Depends on how many level, how many visits they need until we feel they’re safe to go solo.

[00:41:43] So we have this problem now on a composite course that some of the people who come on the course go on and become some of the composite people in the country and others don’t even start their first case. And I see it as a failure of ours, actually, because, I mean, influences are much more involved thing. But if a guy’s been on, by the way, it’s only a two day course. Right. But because being on a two day course with a spend that amount of time with us and then never really took it on, I feel like we made an error, rather, of course, this responsibility on both sides. But what percentage of people are like that with you, dude? What’s it for? Twenty seven days with you. Is there anyone who says, man, it’s not for me.

[00:42:29] I have to be honest with you. We’ve been we’ve been running this course for 11 years now. So this is something we started actually 12 years. We started 2009, as you know, when we started the course. It’s something I started myself and the story came out like I finished my masters. And I have passion for teaching and sharing my knowledge. And I realised there are lots of colleagues who want to learn and plus without going into assignments and thesis. So I started this course with literally five dentists, OK? And then gradually the course starts to grow and it grows by word of mouth. And I have to tell you, so far I only had one delegate who had two in the 11 years to pull out because she had to have the wedding and travel with her husband to another country. So she sort of she didn’t half way through should not continue. But out of the people who continued the course, I can with confidence tell you. Ninety five percent of them are placing implants. And I know this because we follow them up and we have our own WhatsApp group where all our dentists as part of the group and I have it’s in my passion. I keep calling them and checking on them how many cases you’ve done. And we also do every two years like a reunion. So all our best graduates come together for a full day when we do a full day symposium, when they present their cases. And it’s it’s a bit of fun. And when we meet together and we sort of try to develop a community where you finish the course and you get what’s the after sale service, and this is the most important part is the follow up, the encouragement, the mentoring. And, you know, we even try to contact companies and get them special offers. Like that’s the thing people invest in your course, the company or the importers, and they think this is it. They don’t realise, well, actually, they have to invest even afterwards with getting proper care, proper instruments, marketing skills. And that’s what they need to understand. It’s a journey.

[00:44:44] It’s the beginning of the journey.

[00:44:47] Not exactly. Exactly, but with the bird, because we’ve been there for 11 years now, people start to sort of acknowledge the brand and companies come to us and say, right, how we can help you. So like, for example, I’ve got here already offering more than 50 percent discount on our microsurgery kits for our delegates. We’ve got Woodpecker giving us a discount on the merchants. We’ve got Stralman, our fantastic supporter, giving us implants at discounted rate for the bed graduates. So the only way we teach them, but we literally support them to start the career because it is in my best interest that every delegates of my course become a successful dentist. And this is our passion. And this is, I think, what made us special.

[00:45:38] Your passion for this is is obvious, is palpable. You also have the same passion for practise life, of course.

[00:45:47] Yeah.

[00:45:48] Which one do you prefer?

[00:45:51] It’s literally like having two to two sons girlfriends. Yeah, exactly. Because for me I wouldn’t be able to be a good lecturer without a dental practise and I wouldn’t be able to practise well if I wasn’t lecturing. So both motivate me to be a better person because you don’t pay when you lecture, you somehow have this in your subconscious to become a very good clinician because you need to practise what you preach. They go to Dental and if you lecture, you need to have great cases to present. So you know both ways encourage each other.

[00:46:38] Hassan, recently we had a few conversations and what screened out to me, which is totally normal to you, is the way you operate with patients as a team. Right, and associate with an associate lecturer, stroke instructor who has a right hand. I was about to say winchman, but its wing woman and co-pilot, co-pilot, Batman and Robin, as I called it the other day when we spoke. But I guess what really struck out to me is every patient that you treat gets to implant Dentists’ for the price of one, OK, two sets of eyes, et cetera. And I spoke to so many dentists over the last 15 years, I’ve never come across this concept before. So what I’d like you to do is, first of all, tell me about how you met this doctor, right? Yes. Yes. And what really, really struck out to me is that you going up to your mentor when you were doing your mouth and saying, I want to teach, I want to research, I want to do this. Is the story similar? And then how did you become pilot and co-pilot? And sometimes you are a co-pilot, right?

[00:48:03] Oh, yes. Yes, please. So basically, you know, the whole thing goes back to the bare dichotomy, OK, you know, as I said, when I teach, I teach because I want to spread my passion. This is my number one. If you speak to any of our delegates, I’d like to think and they tell me they come and tell me one thing they get from the courts is the passion, OK? And to be honest, what really motivates me to to lecture, to update my lectures, I could be up till midnight, just going to research, to update my lecture. What really motivates me that some of these delegates, they drive all the way from Edinburgh or from Exeter or from Devon to Leeds, so they drive six hours just to come and join my cause. And this is something they do twenty seven times every year. So that motivates me a lot. But then when you find someone who’s willing, not only driving 200 miles. No. To fly like thousand five hundred miles or even more, twenty seven times, that sort of shows you how motivated that person is. And this is the story of Victoria. I mean, we have Victoria and we had other people flying from other countries. But Victoria, the story started. I was lecturing in Bulgaria and she was there as one of the audience and we were talking and she said she wants to become an dentist. And, you know, me being nice, I said, yeah, I’m running an import course and leads by all means you could join. And this conversation was in December, September. Afterwards, she joined the chorus, so she moved to UK and she decided she moved specially to do this course.

[00:50:03] And then she tends to be one of the bright candidates we had. So I offered her a job to be my associate. And at the time I thought, you know, what? Would it be nice to have a younger dentist who can restore my cases? That’s how it started. But then as we progress, I’ve divil of discovery that she’s very good in her perio, in her surgery, as well as her restorative work. And she told me that she loves implants. So now we reach a point where literally we are pilot and co-pilot and we swap that sort of these roles. So sometimes we always do the consultation together. And by doing this, we brainstorm behind the scenes about the best treatment plan for that specific patient. When we do the surgery, we both there. Sometimes she places and I retract and other times I place and she retract. We do the GBR together, we do the soft tissue grafting together, and then we would continue restoring the case as a team. And people like people like it because as you said, somehow they feel safe. They feel comfortable having two dentists discussing the case and getting the best treatment plan for them. It’s a concept, you know, at the beginning, people say, why would you do that? And to be honest now, I highly encourage every single implant dentist to look into this. And this is what we do with Berendt Academy. Now, I encourage all my delegate. To see who is the nearest another bird graduates in their city and do the cases together because the margin of error or the risk of error becomes less and less and less, and it’s a win win for everyone.

[00:51:53] So let let me turn that right. I mean, I think it’s absolutely amazing. And, you know, if I was to get an implant placed in my head to have two highly experienced surgeons, two sets of eyes, two brains, you would just think you’ll get an exceptional value for money. Right. As well as feeling incredibly safe. Does it come at a higher cost than I would go and sort of pay for somebody else in Leeds, for example, to have an implant? I don’t know. We can have the whole conversation about value and everything like that. But let’s let’s treat it like a commodity for now. And I hate doing that. Yeah, that’s a good price.

[00:52:32] Should be higher than delegates for.

[00:52:35] Well, to be honest, Prav and pay. I’m not I’m not the cheapest employed dentist in Leaders. We we we look after our patients. We have special interest in cosmetic and dentistry and we spend good time in surgically managing the soft tissue and prosthetics, managing the soft tissue and getting things look as natural as possible. And because of that, you know, we like to spend good time with our patients. Were never interested in what the efficient implant industry or Quicken 23. Now we like to cook on a slow mode for things to work really well. Having said that, we do immediate loading. So don’t get me wrong, patients sometimes have their immediate loading done and I have special research and rather controlled trials on immediate loading. So I believe in the concept. But what I want to say will not ship. That’s number one. We are good and I’d like to think we are one of the best, but we’re not the cheapest. We’ve never put our prices up because there’s two dentists. I think we’re just more efficient between us to we work at 150 percent efficiency. So sometimes I will be working in one practise and Victoria would be working another practise like the restorative work. But the planning is always done together. And the surgery, we do it together. So if anything, if you want to ask me personally about my records, since my associate joined, my numbers went really doubled, if not tripled, because we are more efficient.

[00:54:20] So Hassan just has to put numbers to this single tooth implant in the back of the mouth, and then they’re going to say it varies from patient to patient and all the rest of it. Just give us a ballpark.

[00:54:31] Ok, I’m going to be honest the way I do it and will happy be happy to share this little tech. I was watching a panorama on BBC and it was to do how restaurants make money. OK. And that changed the way I sell obviously ethically to my patients. They they brought a plate and on that plate they had a bit of rice, beef, chicken salad, bowl of peas, and then went with this plate in the streets to people and say how much you would pay for this meal. And everyone was like 15, 18, 20 pounds. And then they went, they got a tray and a tapas system, like a little plate with rice, little plate with chicken little plate with the same content, but in small plates. And then they went to people say how much you would pay for this tray. And everyone was like five pounds per plate altogether. Five dishes. Twenty five pounds. So that sort of struck me in a way, you know what, you could offer better service and justify what you’re charging. And this is what we do now when we have whenever we want to present a treatment plan, we sort of break every little stage. If I was a patient, I would like to know what I’m paying for. So we do of planning. This will cost much study. Modern Surgical Guide. When it comes to implants, I go and I’m honest with my patients and say, do you know what implants. They’re just like cars. They come in different, makes different prices. And I go and say in the U.K. market there are more than two hundred and make having said that, to keep it easy for our patients, I tell them I’ve shortlisted three systems and I go and say there is a budget system and this will cost fifteen hundred and then there is a middle of the range system which is seventeen fifty, and there is a premium system which is two thousand.

[00:56:29] And then on top of that they will have to pay for the GB ah if needed the soft tissue graft if needed. And the final Quraan which we charge eleven hundred. So I get my patients to get involved in building the case and then them sort of knowing how much they’re paying and what for. And to be honest with a bit of education, I would tell you, ninety five percent of my patients come to me and say, give me the premium system. I don’t mind paying the extra five hundred for the premium system. It’s all about getting them involved. You know, one thing I’ve learnt in implant dentistry, new care, this is what I love about UK. It’s all about involving the patient in the whole journey. You know, I mentor and I mentor internationally as well. Not only in UK. I get invited to mentor in Dubai, the Middle East and sometimes in Croatia, Bulgaria, different countries. One thing I love about UK, the about involving patients in the treatment plan, and this is how it should be. So, yes, for a single molar crown, it can be around three thousand five hundred. For an interior, it can be five hundred. Depends on the case.

[00:57:49] And for me, the what I would look at is two levels rather than three levels. Because with three levels, people tend to go to war for the middle. And, you know, we get this in all sorts of areas and then street. But I like I like what you’re saying there. And how much of your work is actually placing and the clinical side, how much of it is research, how much of it is teaching and how much of it is pre covid travelling? Because I know you travel all over the world lecturing, right?

[00:58:22] Yes. I mean, this is what I used to do, pre covid and this is what I miss travelling and, you know, just meeting different people, learning from different people. Don’t get me wrong, I still attend courses. I make an effort every year to go at least one or two courses myself to learn. So this is very important. And this is you know, I feel it. It’s my responsibility as a teacher to learn more, to bring this knowledge from different countries to my delegates in Leaders or in the U.K. I would say at the moment or three covid, I would say 60 percent to 70 percent towards clinical work and 30 percent between teaching and research. Now, I think it’s the same because the only difference I’m teaching more in the UK compared to what I used to do before. So before I would teach 50 50 International you. Now, just as I said, we have to cohort’s with having more courses running. So covid helped bend. If anything covid made better the better academy so allowed me to focus more on Berridge Academy.

[00:59:42] Cozart, you have a tick account.

[00:59:45] No, you know my daughter has one.

[00:59:48] So you have Instagram.

[00:59:50] Yes, I have an Instagram and

[00:59:53] The social media and Yeoval.

[00:59:56] Oh yes. Social media is like a double edged sword for me. Social media, I have to be honest. Social media helped me a lot and helped Barrett a lot because literally, believe it or not, for the last two years, the the bird academy work tripled at very little marketing needed because thanks to social media, whenever and if the dentist’s girls say, I’m looking for an implant cause my delegates have the passion towards the cause, they go and start to write about the cause. And I people say, will we join your cause because we feel the passion from your graduates. It must be really good for them to write that. So social media helped me a lot. Having said that, social media did hurt me a few times. I know I am an opinionated person when it comes to implant dentistry. I’m a biology driven and dentists and I believe in certain things and I believe in research. And and I’ve noticed sometimes we have what we call now the University of Facebook, where people show things and mislead others. And I don’t like that. And sometimes I put my opinion and people don’t like it. Another thing, you know, sometimes, you know, as any other business, you will have some differences or some disagreements. And what happened over the years, more than one occasion where the other party decided to take their disagreement to social media and the problem with social media, it’s given a platform to people to write anything they want without being questioned. And obviously, it is a common mistake where people jump to conclusions. So, yeah, social media did hurt me a few times. But you know what? It taught me to have a broad shoulders be above it and not go down to the level and start sort of arguing and all that. And, yeah, you know, it’s it’s just so it’s a double edged sword for me.

[01:02:08] I said, let’s take this conversation to work life balance and just more about who are you, what do you do, what’s your typical day? What time do you wake up? What’s a typical week for you? You mentioned your daughter earlier. How does this all feature in in the busy life of a Olympian’s surgeon like yourself who’s teaching and running your clinics, et cetera, et cetera? Just tell us a little bit more about you.

[01:02:34] I’m a person who sleeps very little. I usually go to bed around midnight and wake up around half past 6:00 in the morning. So this is somewhat this what I’ve been doing for a long, long time. Wake up in the early morning and an idea of what I would do some work. I haven’t done any recently, but that’s what I would do. I have my little son when he’s eight and usually me and him are up before everyone else in the house. So this is our half an hour time or our one hour time where we spend time together either on his Lego or him showing me what he’s done on his YouTube channel or whatever. He’s very, very clever young boy. So this is one hour we spent together. And then obviously I go to work and I’m lucky because I have my associate. I don’t need to be there always like nine o’clock sharp. So sometimes, like today I’m going to be there at ten o’clock. It’s OK because I know my patients are safe with my associate, Victoria. I work till eight, maybe around seven.

[01:03:46] And then the evening I try my best to keep it from my family. And this is where things go wrong sometimes because, you know, by the time you want to read research or update the lectures, you know, I feel I’m not giving enough time to my family. And if you ask me one thing I regret and I want to change and improve is to give time to my family. I have two daughters as well. One of them is 18, doing her A-levels and another one is 15. The eleventh one is autistic. She DROs, she paints. She’s amazing. Lana and Janša, she’s into sports. She plays for netball, leads a netball Yorkshire. So I go and watch her playing a few times. So yeah, this is my family and obviously my wife who’s who’s an ex dentist. She made a decision not to practise and just focus on the family. And if it wasn’t for her, I wouldn’t be able to do what I’m doing. I’d like to think I’m balancing things, but I know I need to spend more time with the family husband.

[01:04:53] Tell me about a situation where this balance really came, was really, really loud to you in your mind or your head or whatever. I’ll give you an example and just see if it resonates with you. And it’s the for me, it was the social media side of things. Right. And I was I was watching TV with my daughter, but I wasn’t. And I had my phone in my hand. Yeah. And I was responding to a message that someone sent to me. And that message was so important that it was more important than watching TV with my daughter. At least that’s what I thought. And she touched the phone out of my hand and said to me, Daddy, put your phone away. And I said, 3:00 a.m. telling me that right at my house. Yeah. That’s when I realised actually what I was doing. And it’s a constant challenge trying to strike that balance when you’re running businesses, when you’re trying to provide a service and be responsive to people. Have you got any examples like that that you could share with those of similar episodes where where the work life balance is just sort of struck a chord?

[01:06:02] This is the painful part, is that, you know, we all are guilty, you know. Yeah, I would be having dinner with them. And, you know, people who know me very well, they tell me I’m addicted to my phone. And this is you know, it’s a disease. I think it’s a disease. I get my my best friend’s, my wife, my children. They tell me, Hassan, you’re addicted to your phone. And I would be having dinner. And without even me knowing or noticing, I would be checking my phone and just a couple of times my little own, he would hide the phone from me, literally hide it. So if I press my phone and then everyone would start laughing at me and say, oh, have you met your best friend or something like that? So you’re right. I think I think it is a big mistake and it’s something I’m still guilty of and I need to work hard on, you know, getting that balance right. But then. You know what I’m sure you share with me? We have this passion of giving and being great and doing this, you know, we’ve got energy inside us and that sometimes disturb the balance.

[01:07:21] And, you know, I struggle with that right a lot. And the counter argument is that there are times where that energy and that passion and everything needs to be directed to the people who will be there for you if you were ill and if you were in hospital or whatever that is, those people who would be there caring for you. And so I still do. I have techniques to to help me with it, but I often falter as well as it is some quite passionate about because I’m just like you, quite guilty of doing what you’ve just done.

[01:07:56] You think you don’t need to punish yourselves about this anywhere near as much as you are Prav Prav especially not punishing myself. Let me go. When you when you were a kid and you were having dinner with your dad around that table and he didn’t have a phone here, I’m sorry to have to break this to you now, Prav. He wasn’t one hundred percent thinking about you. Doesn’t have a phone call about other things to

[01:08:26] Somebody, you know,

[01:08:30] Listen to love.

[01:08:31] So let’s let’s blame it on technology and on the era. We’re living in

[01:08:35] An orderly manner and get through.

[01:08:41] And, you know,

[01:08:43] Guys, it’s.

[01:08:44] Yeah, yeah. No, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, you’re right. You’re right,

[01:08:48] Alhassan. It’s nice to hear from someone who’s so accomplished as you that you’ve made some mistakes and we’ve all made mistakes. But but on this show, we like to talk about the clinical errors and what other people can learn, what you learn from a clinical error and what obviously other people can learn from that. Can you think of.

[01:09:07] Yeah, I obviously we all majorettes, we wouldn’t be humans if we didn’t make errors. And, you know, one thing talking about the pilot co-pilot concept is all about, you know, what can we do to make it better for our patients? And I again, you know, if I want to take one, send one take home message to my friends and colleagues is please think about working as a team. It does help. It does help. You know, let’s put our egos down and think, you know, working as a team. One thing I really regret and it really hasn’t hurt me for a long time. I treated this lady. She was my number two patient in UK, in the private sector. And I had a mentor and I invited someone who I used to think he’s a great person because I was very young and he was very popular. I paid him from my own share as an as an associate to come and deal with me that Saturday. And I treated this lady. And now, you know, fifteen years on, I realised that that mentor was literally standing there doing nothing. I he sort of supervised my errors. I placed and put in the wrong direction a place in place to labial. And the patient ended with recession and with metal display. And it sucked because I thought I had my safety net behind my shoulder and I realised now that he didn’t do a good job.

[01:10:51] So that sort of, again, motivated me. When I accept to mentor someone, I take it there seriously. I’m there 100 percent as if this is my patient. And that’s what every mentor needs to do. You know, it it saddens me to see people claiming to be mentors when they’re not ready to be mentors. And when I say ready to be mentor, not only clinically, but you need to have the passion and the patience to be there as a teacher, which is harder than being just a clinician. So that’s something I would, you know, I would regret doing, not knowing the right people to teach me and learning and then teach me how to do things at the very beginning. Obviously, when it comes to implant dentistry pay, it’s very critical field. If you place your implant one millimetre to labial, the whole thing in a film and you’re going to get Middleville recession. So it makes or break the case, the correct positioning. It’s like dominoes effect. If the first block isn’t right, everything else would be wrong. So when it comes to applying dentistry, it’s all about plotting, planning, planning, planning and. Sharing that plan with your mentor, discussing double checking and having no ego, whenever you get ego playing, that’s when things go wrong.

[01:12:17] So, I mean, do you forgive me for not understanding things correctly, but in a surgical sense? Yeah. Does that when you when you when you use that, does that mean the placement now is taken care of?

[01:12:30] Well, provided the planning was done right. Surgical guide, if it’s surgically if it’s ready, graphically designed or digitally designed. Yeah. It’s literally a sleeve showing you where to put the implant as per your virtual planning.

[01:12:45] So I go

[01:12:47] And mentor people where virtually they plan things wrong. So the guy is going to show them I’ll make the place implants wrong. So so it’s all about the biology, the understanding and then sort of planning things. Right. And obviously decision making that implant dentistry. We can have a full hour talking about which bone graft material you need to use. Are we going to use the one which Facebook recommended or the one which evidence based research showing it works? And for what uses there is no one magic powder you could not use. You know, how do I know that this person isn’t a good employee, dentist or not? If I go and see that they have one bone graft material and one implement design in the cupboard, you know that this person has developed a proper knowledge in implant dentistry.

[01:13:45] It’s different levels, isn’t it? This is as you get to that higher level, you know, um, well, we like to end this on the same question every time as I know you’re pushed for time.

[01:13:59] Prav guy I get away with Passan.

[01:14:04] Imagine it’s your final day on the planet and you’ve got your you’ve got your kids around you and you need to leave them with three pieces of mentoring, advice, wisdom. Call it whatever you want. What would they be.

[01:14:21] Right. OK, my first one, and this is something I’ve been telling my daughter now who’s just turned 18 and my friends as well, you need to be the reason of your happiness. Never, ever allow anyone to be the reason of your happiness. Because the moment you start relying on other people for your happiness, this is when. You might get disappointed in life and then I’ve seen people getting too close to to giving up because they get disappointed by others. So you need to be number one reason for your happiness. That’s my first advice.

[01:15:06] Great advice. Great advice.

[01:15:09] Number two advice. Be humble and kind. You know, ego will do nothing other than just destroying you and making the nice people run away from you. So, you know, just no need for ego in this life. And number three, be an honest person, you know, just be an honest person. And it doesn’t cost much to be kind.

[01:15:38] Very nice.

[01:15:40] And how would you like to be remembered? So Hassan was and then complete the sentence. What would you like your legacy to be?

[01:15:52] Can I be honest with you, because I’ve been listening to your podcasts over the last few weeks and I have seen, you know, you always ask this question to people and, you know, different people give you different answers. Sure. But, you know what? Would it be bad if I say I don’t care?

[01:16:14] You can I can

[01:16:16] Say a lot of people will remember me. I don’t care how would people remembered me after I die, I would care more how people feel about me when I’m alive. This is what I want to do, you know, I think I think I want to be good to people now when I’m alive, I really don’t care what they think of me when I’m when I’m dead.

[01:16:42] And so I just you know,

[01:16:46] I just, you know,

[01:16:49] I like that. So while you’re here, what would you like people to see?

[01:16:58] I like them to know and I like them, I like them, you know, I like them to know that everything I do is out of passion, of honesty and out of kindness. I mean, sometimes I’m human and, you know, I do errors. I never aim to upset another person. I never aim to fall out with another person. People fall out with me for stupid reasons, and I reach out and say, listen, it’s not worth it. But then their egos top them, you know, accepting that I’m really you know, I really don’t want to fall out with people. I don’t want to upset people. Life is too short to worry about that. I think we should all be happy and kind to each other.

[01:17:50] Oh, lovely hustle. And I don’t think that resonates with these three pieces of advice that you’d give out. Right. Is that is that’s pretty much how you live your life and want to want to be known. Now, imagine you have 30 days left and you had your health and everything in sight for those 30 days. How would you spend it?

[01:18:12] I would spend them with the people I care about and the people who care about me the most, my mom, my dad, my family and my best friends. I would I would be happy, I, I would do everything to make them happy and just enjoy life, I might do one or two lectures because I love lecturing. When I do this as I am, I do this one last implant case because I enjoy my clinical implant dentistry

[01:18:47] And I like that.

[01:18:50] But I know what I would have my fun with me as well because I’m still addicted.

[01:18:57] Need to have some beautiful eyes and thank you so much for your time. It’s been incredibly insightful, not just not just on the personal level, but also the unique way you do things. Right. And the bits of knowledge you’ve just shared with us today, I think would be very useful for anyone listening. So thank you. Thank you.

[01:19:15] So thank you. It’s a great privilege to be here with you. And thank you so much for the kind invitation. It means a lot. Thank you so much.

[01:19:22] Thank you very much.

[01:19:25] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders on the street.

[01:19:36] Your house, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

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