We’re super excited to welcome onto this week’s show wavemaker and Harley Street cosmetic dentist, Payman Sobhani.

Payman talks about success on Instagram, DJing in Ibiza and running an award-winning practice. 

Hear Payman cover the art of composite bonding, making memories at uni and working with family on Harley Street.



“Someone’s coming to you in pain, you’ve got them out of pain at a time when you didn’t have space to do it, and then I might do something weird, just be like, you know, don’t worry about it. Don’t pay for it this time. Just bring me someone else…” – Payman Sobhani


In This Episode


02.52 – Uni up North

06:31 – Having a brother on Harley Street

11.19 – Not having a closing time

18.18 – Qatar Embassy

19:33 – Beginning a business

24:26 – One-man-shows on Harley Street

25:20 – Bromley

29:43 – DJing

33:04 – Ibiza

33:30 – Dental beauty

35:50 – 49/51 split

39:08 – Portfolio critique

42:10 – Spotting potential

47:11 – General dentistry

50:42 – Implantology

54:24 – Staying within your scope

01:01:47 – Being a clinical director

01:09:44 – Legacy & last days on Earth


About Payman Sobhani


Payman qualified from Leeds Dental School in 2012 and held two associate positions in Stevenage and Harley Street. Payman’s interests lie in restorative and cosmetic dentistry.

Payman is a member of the British Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry and is the Clinical Director of Dental Beauty in Bromley and is also practising at 104 Harley Street, London.

[00:00:00] Someone’s coming to you in pain, you’ve got them out of pain at a time when you didn’t have space to do it, and then I might do something weird, just be like, you know, don’t worry about it. Don’t don’t pay for it this time. Just bring me someone else. Just random things like that. And they’re already shocked. Amazed, like they’re always like, oh, this is incredible. You’ve done so much for me. I’m so happy. I mean, I’m out of pain. And then you kind of just like, you know what another element of it, if I wanted money from you today, I’ve just I’ve done that before. If you want as an example of something that will just give you something to talk about. But then off the back of that, I’ve had patients. I’ve had I know I’ve had people come to me, I’ve had gifts given to be I’ve had concert tickets, all these sort of things come off the back of just making someone happy, you know, just doing something different.

[00:00:50] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging Leaders Dental Street. Your heist’s Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki

[00:01:07] Gives me great pleasure to welcome the other Payman from Dental Payman Kabani young dentist is making waves from, from my perspective, seeing your wonderful work on Instagram and and your wonderful work on the DJ decks. But he is

[00:01:24] A pleasure to have you both. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here.

[00:01:27] Tell me about your brother’s highly accomplished sort of Harley Street and the dentist. Is that the reason why you became a dentist?

[00:01:36] I probably wouldn’t say it is that I think he definitely had an influence on my choices career. But it was actually when he sent me to his friends so I could get braces that made me want to be an orthodontist to begin with, which is funny because now is my least favourite thing to do. However, it it definitely started something by seeing what he was he was achieving and what he was doing gave me an idea. But I kind of always wanted to be maybe a few different choices, you know, when to be a plastic surgeon. I still want to be a plastic surgeon. I still think I’d be great for plastic surgeons. But I think that with being an architect. But it was only when I really went to have my braces that I thought, yeah, dentistry is for me.

[00:02:17] Where did you study

[00:02:18] Study in Leaders class of 2012 qualified. Yeah, and it was it was a great time. Needs was I say I feel sorry for people that didn’t go to Leaders. I think everyone feels that way about their uni. But I think all this kind of student cities, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, all those places where people have real fun at uni. And I think I always highly recommend people asking me where to go. I always say get out of London and go to places like that.

[00:02:46] When you go up north, did you feel like an outsider being from London at all?

[00:02:52] I think there was there was a lot of Londoners that I think went there. And and Leeds is a city that is run by students. It’s you’ve got like two or three hundred thousand students, I think through five or six different universities is kind of you know, there’s a lot of different units there and it’s a huge one. So when the students aren’t there, there’s no one there. So, you know, people coming from all parts of all walks of life or different backgrounds, which is why I guess it’s such a fun place to be. Feni.

[00:03:21] Rove was very similar, actually, when when when the real students used to leave, when we were left there, when we were the longer terms. Exactly. You could feel the town just just go down

[00:03:33] Because it

[00:03:33] Was such a big part of the population. I’m sure Oxford was very similar to Prav.

[00:03:39] And I stayed there when a lot of the other students went home and it was just like bicycle’s chained to railings, left there for like six weeks or whatever, and it’s a ghost town. So that’s why my my friend Circle was always what we refer to as townies and then students. Right. So I had had quite a varied friends circle and, you know, and that was the reason why really, because when the sued most of the students, it called. I was still

[00:04:06] Hanging out there. So, yeah. What were you like, the Dental stupid. What was I like as Dental student? I think much the same as I was throughout school, throughout everything. I was just plain average, I think. I don’t think I was you know, I’ve never really excelled anything academically. I think I was always middle ground to the point where even though I actually I actually failed my A-levels, I’m one of those retake chemistry guys. It was never natural to me to be a science based person. I think I was always very English literature. I did for A-levels. I did art for a little while. And so those two were easy to me. I didn’t I didn’t struggle with those. That was something that but in the biology and chemistry, that was kind of like, OK, I need to spend some more time on this, but I never really wanted to. But I knew I wanted to be a dentist, I guess because of the art side of it, which made more sense to me as to anything else.

[00:05:02] Do you think now, like we were talking about kids and, you know, you haven’t got any kids yet. But let’s let’s project forward. Your parents were sort of the first generation immigrants, as were mine. And, you know, first generation immigrants tend to push their kids into these sciences sort of practical degrees. Do you think now you as a second generation, you know, fully established kind of kid, if your kid was more arts and literature based durcan, you’d push them into, not push them, but allow him to be a movie maker or whatever?

[00:05:35] Yeah, I think absolutely. I think I sometimes the back of my mind, I think what if I just did that path and see see what had happened and all that I was ever that great at. It was just something that I think came more natural to me than the sciences. But I think that for sure, if someone if you know, if my kids were into that and I think I’d want them to be into that, I’d want them to I I’d hope they were a little bit more into that bit more that creative side and a bit more. You can get more out of that. I think in some ways dentistry is is is great, but you’re kind of stuck as a dentist. I think that’s that’s what you know, there’s no there’s nowhere else you can go. I always kind of intrigued to know these are the degrees other people take up. The other courses are the degrees and they they go down different paths and start new careers. Everyone knows where dentistry is. No one knows what you do. If you end up doing something like arts or something that you end up you can go anywhere else with that, you know. So I think I would I would I would encourage it for sure.

[00:06:31] And your brother, I mean, when you became a dentist, he was already fully established on Harley Street.

[00:06:39] Exactly. It was.

[00:06:43] So you were kind of accelerated into that world?

[00:06:45] Yeah, I think I was. I don’t know. I don’t know how many people came out of dental school into Harley Street. I think that was that was that that was your. Well, I did vte. I did. And elsewhere. But towards the end of my Betsie, I’d already started working there. I didn’t even allow the things that we to go to like May. I think he went on holiday and he was like, you know, let’s see what you can do. And I remember he said that he was on our graduation day. Actually, it was always in his mind. I think that that would be the plan on my graduation day. He just said, let’s see what you can do if you fly or swim in that environment. And I went straight into that after towards the end of VTE. And, yeah, I’m still there. I’ve been there the whole time. And it was it was a gift, I guess that, you know, I always say it that way. It was always very fortunate to have been given that opportunity very early in my career. Some people come to me asking advice and what they can what they should do and what path they should take to get this job. And I’m like, you know, you’re probably not asking the right person because it was it was given to me. And which is a different situation to most, but I had to fit the role. I think that was that’s the difference as to where I had to go through my head to the game so I could fit in with that crowd, I guess.

[00:08:09] I mean, it’s a Prav, it’s his his brother’s practise is one of the most beautiful Praksis I’ve ever been to. It was stunning. Anyway, those buildings are stunning, aren’t they? Anyway, he’s done he’s done something wonderful with it as well.

[00:08:23] We’re moving we’re moving on to the new one next month, removing. Oh, really? Really. So we’re moving two to one to seven, which is opposite. He’s expanded the surgery there and he’s just in the midst of the build for that. So literally across the road. But that’s going to be an amazing practise. I mean, if that was anything to go by, which was 12 years ago, this is going to be a, you know, referral centre is going to have all the top equipment. Everything has been put into this place. So I’ve kind of went to see it when he first got the keys and I said, I’m not really going to go back until it’s done. And I’m kind of involved in my room and the planning of that. But I just I don’t want to see it. I’m just going to want to kind of just walk in and experience it. That’s kind of where I get that one really proud of me for doing it, especially at times. And I like to think I helped along the way maybe to get it to the point where it had been there for eight years. I like to think that it my baby on his say. But yeah, it’s exciting.

[00:09:24] Having a brother in the field is super useful. I mean, I’m thinking of Depay. She’s got one brother who’s a dentist, one brother’s technician. And are you aware of that? Do you do you feel that or not? You know, you could have any questions answered straight away by someone who’s fully experienced.

[00:09:43] I’ve tried to always keep that in the back of my mind that I’m lucky to have that. You know, I didn’t let that slip away from me. I think he was always a clinical dentist. Does he’s a clinician first and foremost as a as a mind over being a business owner or being a practise owner. But I think having him as a mentor from that perspective of clinical dentistry was one thing. But also, I think what I learnt way more than that, even from him is, is management of of patients and his staff for sure, because your staff are incredibly loyal to him. But management of patients has what I think is really stuck with me and how to speak to people and how to understand them and how to do things that they they don’t expect in order for you to stand out from the crowd. Give them give them a reason to talk about you, I think is at dinner. That’s what I always do, something that day to make your patient go home and tell their wife about you. Not just that. I went to the dentist today. I went to the dentist and you did this and it was my blue, like that sort of thing that was really strange. And expect that that’s what I’ve always seen him do day in, day out. And that’s what I think stuck with me and made me able to treat patients the way I do.

[00:10:56] So can you give us an example of either one thing? You brother, you’ve done the sort of things like stand out, you know, is it is it shock and awe service? Is it is it going above and beyond? And just some specifics in terms of what are you delivering that makes that patient not only say, hey, you know, I got my teeth fixed today, I’ve got a beautiful smile, but something else that sparks that conversation, I think

[00:11:19] I think we don’t have an opening line. We don’t have a closing time. I think that’s one thing. If you have an issue, you will be seen, I think is, you know, if you call us up and you say, listen, I’ve got this problem, I need to be seen by someone, we will accommodate that. Firstly, I think that’s because of our patient base, our patient base of ninety five percent, probably 90 percent Katari. So we’ve always worked on the basis of these guys. I’m going to be around. So you have to do the work when you don’t. But in the sense of what we may do for that patient is, you know, typically things that we you know, I personally had examples where a patient may come in excruciating pain first. They have accommodated them at the end of my day and maybe they’re two, eight, nine p.m. and then they always find a root canal example was really good. That’s probably why it’s been successful for him, is because someone’s coming to you in a lot of pain. You’ve got them out of pain at a time when you didn’t have space to do it. And then I might do something weird, just be like, you know, don’t worry about it.

[00:12:17] Don’t don’t pay for it this time. Just bring me someone else. Just random things like that. And they’re already shops amazed, like they’re always like, oh, this is incredible. You’ve done so much for me. I’m so happy. I mean, I’m out of pain. And then you kind of just like, you know, another element of it. If I wanted money from you today, I’ve just I’ve done that before. If you want as an example of something that would just give you something to talk about. But in the back of that, I’ve had patients I’ve had I know I’ve had people come to me. I’ve had gifts given to be at that concert tickets. All these other things come off the back of just making someone happy, you know, just doing something different. I don’t recommend it was not a great business model, but it’s a good way to kind of just because, again, for our practise, we’ve never we have never had a website. We don’t have a website. You won’t find us, really. And it’s. Always been like that is purely word of mouth, purely word of mouth, Payman.

[00:13:12] What is it about the point where there must be some energy in the room or something for you to turn around and say, no problem, buddy. This one’s on the house, right? I remember when my dad had the cornershop, he gave the old musbah away. Right. But what that was usually a connexion, right? Whatever it was. What is it about? You go through that treatment you did. And he said, you know what, buddy? Don’t worry about it.

[00:13:36] It’s I think I think it is Mitry that I think sometimes I just like to shock and surprise. And I think I think it’s when you’ve obviously had that rapport with them, you can tell that they’re really happy with everything. You can tell that they’re already going to talk about you. And it’s just adding that little extra thing sometimes that, you know, again, I could probably count on one hand, some have done that, but I know off the back of it and I think it’s just in that room, you just that patient is already so grateful that already you’ve already done everything that you needed to do to to to get them to the point where they’re happy with the service that you provided. But it may not still be enough to for them to talk to you about the talk about you over dinner with their friends on a Friday night. Just, you know something, just if I went to this amazing practise and it’s not going to be voicing that they had something for free, it’s going to be more waisting. I went to this beautiful practise. I saw dentistry. Listen to what I said. I didn’t experience any pain. It’s all those things that I expect they’ll remember and then then express to others.

[00:14:44] And just just the clarity of the business. Right. Is this a business that you control with your brother? Are you an associate there? What’s what’s the special?

[00:14:53] I’m an associate that practise. And this there’s been talks of of of things potentially in the future. But I’ve never seen it as that for me or, you know, I’ve seen it as my brother’s practise. I, I think if it was an opportunity or the right time, the right opportunity came across. Maybe, maybe that what would make sense down the line, I think it could well go that way. But I’ve done something else by my own practise separately to that to kind of just be like, you know, this is also there is another opportunity, something else that I can do.

[00:15:28] So question for you that if it wasn’t your brother’s practise, would you still give treatment away on the house?

[00:15:35] Yeah, no, I think that’s that’s what he would do. I do things that I. I see how he’s done it. All of these things are just kind of like what he’s done before. Yeah. I don’t think it’s these things that I’ve probably come up with by myself. It’s things that I’ve seen and it may not be that and it’s not always that, but there’s just things that we that we would we almost all our patients on my business call has my personal mobile number. Every patient after that will get that personal mobile number and they never call. You know, it’s not always like always giving that away. You know, it was going to bother you. I’ve been giving that call out for eight years and very rarely do I get any message. Sometimes I get like a happy birthday or something like a someone complaining about anything or any issues. But it’s that you see that in their eyes when you done that and you’ve given them that number and you said, that’s my personal number. And if you’ve got you can call me directly. You face something like, oh, wow, taken aback by it. And it’s just I think it’s an extra blanket of support that they know they have. Having been to that practise

[00:16:40] Payman a couple of questions. How did it end up being 90 percent Katari and how how does it differ from treating patients who don’t live here and, you know, the cultural issues that were there.

[00:16:56] So initially it came again, this is Leaders on perfectly to this because this whole business model came from one patient. So there’s again, that whole model comes from treating that one patient correctly who happens to be connected to the Qatari embassy. And that’s what we still see. That patient, my brother still sees him. And, you know, by having done that, he’s gone back to where he’s worked to be like, oh, we need someone to refer to. Let me send you all our patients. So then the embassy pays for their treatment mostly. But it’s like NHS. They won’t pay for some things. You know, there’s there’s an implant dentistry, the basic dentistry. I generally don’t pay for it. So if they want that treatment to be done, then they found that themselves and now they get it. Things change over time. They start to pay a little bit less. They start to prove less patient. But that patient base is difficult because they’re coming in with translators. So you’re only ever as good as your translator. They’re coming in with medical histories as long as your arm. I don’t know what it is about some of those countries, but it’s like, I guess some Iranians, they just don’t really you know, they sometimes I just think they can pay their way out of it or there’s someone that can pay their way out of it for them. So there’s long medical histories and they don’t know their medical history. They don’t really know what’s wrong with them, even, you know. And then you’ve got to have this whole conversation is to like you need all this work to be done. You’ve got two weeks to do it because they’re about to leave the country. You’ve got to get approval from the office for the treatment to go ahead. And they expect that they can pay for that. They always will pay for everything. So they like. Yeah, doctor, I want Hollywoods my. I can’t give you that, my friend.

[00:18:45] You say we consider that if you consider setting up a little branch in Doha.

[00:18:50] Yeah. That’s that’s you know, I always watch this space sort of situation with that one with me. It’s always, always had that in the back of his mind. And it’s and he goes there a lot. You go there every every six weeks or so to see patients are really six weeks to maybe six weeks, two months, something like that. You’ll go there to see patients. So, yeah, it it makes sense, I guess, but it’s weird. It’s become like a brand, you know, Savani, because we see so many of the patients and we see a lot of that. They’re important people let’s say. So I think they become a little bit of a brand. People want to come to see Savani. Just it just

[00:19:33] It just goes to show, doesn’t it? Prav, I know this would be resonating with you, that sort of hand-to-hand combat of the beginning of business where you haven’t got enough customers, patients, whatever, whichever business it is, and you’re going out of your way for every single one, you know, surprise and delight, shock and awe, whatever you want to call, just doing everything you can for the few customers that you’ve got and and that one customer patient becoming the source of twenty years. But instead of you know, it just goes to show how how important that human touch to service element is. Absolutely.

[00:20:14] And I think that’s that’s why it’s been so. For me, the other thing is I kind of I for everyone knows this because I’ve always been in it. I think it was always something that I thought that it’s just every practise does it this way. And so you realise that it’s not like that. And, you know, as I’ve bought my own practise, I realise that you’ve got to you’ve got to show people that you’ve got to train people to to have that mentality and to do things in that way, because it’s all about that patient journey. Right. From how it is when they pick up the phone to how it is when they they’ve left your practise and they’ve got your mobile number as a as a as a blanket, I guess, of, you know, is that sort of touch with things is I thought everyone did. And then I really realised it wasn’t that way.

[00:21:05] And, you know, that sort of high end level of service that you deliver, you know, not having in a close in time, for example, or just going above and beyond. Right. Or perhaps when you’re in someone’s mouth and you see something, I actually think, you know, I’ll just tidy up a while I’m here sort of thing, and I just go that extra mile and, you know, if I’ve just got my business head on right. And I’ve just got my numbers head on, I look at and I it’s not scalable as a business model.

[00:21:32] Right.

[00:21:33] But from the other from the other side, I look at it and think you’re providing a level of service that nobody else does. Right. And that and that’s your USP when you’re looking at, let’s say, the growth of your practise or the growth of your business or the growth of you moving forward, because staying open till 9:00 pm every night isn’t scalable either, especially when the kiddies come along. And although Payman might tell you to delay that process,

[00:22:01] He’s got his hand on. He said, I’ll get these days to get out right now.

[00:22:10] And what is what is the plan? Is is it to deliver like just the highest and service that’s delivered by you and people come to see you? Because I can’t see you having a team of six, seven, eight associates who will deliver what you deliver unless they come with the same family. And this has got to come from family values. Right. And unless they come with them, it’s going to be hard to find and replicate.

[00:22:36] Yeah, I think I think that’s definitely true, and that’s what I’ve always kind of said to me, just to like, what’s the plan? Like what where where is it going? Because he’s he’s 20 years old and he’s in his fifties now and he’s just building another practise and he’s thinking of you thinking this and that. And it’s like, where does it kind of stop? Where does it where does it go? Where’s the end up? I think we’ve got you got better as time’s going on. I think we go through periods where we call riding the wave. I guess if there’s if there’s an influx of patients here, then we will see them. So it’s not always like that in times we skate it back and we were less busy and, you know, we have more normal lives. But you’re totally right in that sense of where does it where does it go from here? How do you sell that sort of thing on which I guess one of the reasons that I started looking at other things in terms of what if I’m looking at a business perspective, it didn’t make sense to me for, you know, going in and buying that sort of practise is where does it at the moment? It didn’t. I think what I needed to do was to maybe get a little bit of a business experience in a little bit of money behind me or something that I could actually afford to run a practise that way, because I would like to I think ultimately I’d like to come back and have one practise that I work in and is run that way. And I don’t really mind about what’s going to happen later on. I think that’s how he’s he’s done it.

[00:24:10] Do you see this as a business sort of centred around your lifestyle, your values, what you want to deliver, rather than this machine that you want to multiply and grow and scale? Because at the end of it, you are the business, right? Payman.

[00:24:26] So absolutely, I think but I think that goes to say for pretty much all of the practises on Wall Street or or, you know, it’s it is that way. Holosuite practises are very One-Man Show. There is there is everything generally coming to see my brother first and foremost and he’s busy. So that’s kind of how it really works. But it’s but it is that show and it’s always it’ll always be generally is that game. And I think every practise that there is is a little bit that way. No one’s got multiple practises on Wall Street or has some history as multiple other ones, because it does take up a lot of your time to to grow a practise like that.

[00:25:08] What about when you bought your Bromley practise? The difference, I mean, that must be a totally different type of patients and probably did you buy it when you started?

[00:25:20] So I’m one of the Dental D.C. partners with with death. Oh, yes. So they’ve I’ve known them for for a long time, mainly for Amet. And a couple of other friends who I met were quite good friends at uni. We were at its wedding when I’ve known that before. But we got it. We started speaking about it really. And it kind of just made sense on the basis of the fact that if I am a clinician, I love clinical dentistry and I but I’ve always wanted to own my own practise. But I also feel like to do it in a in a way that I know makes business sense as well. I don’t want to just kind of put all my money into it and work there and not really get anywhere. I’d like to hit the ground running, I guess. And that’s what Dental beauty as a group will will allow, allows clinicians that a good dentist. Fundamentally, there are a lot of good dentists. What exactly this all this coming on board that that I know of. And it’s a movement that’s happening and it’s because you have that clinical freedom to do what you want to do and you can do it completely your own way because it is your your practise. But I wouldn’t have chosen you or you. They will do the practise with you if they didn’t think you were up to the standards.

[00:26:32] And that was important for me. I wasn’t I didn’t want to go in as a a corporate and be told I can’t audit this. I can’t do that. I wanted to be given complete clinical freedom to do the dentistry that I want to do, the way that I want to do it and the way that Dental butI know that I do it, which is why they chose me or wanted me to do the practise with. So there was an appreciation there that I felt which made sense. But Bromley is as a place it was it was it was a practise that they were already in the middle of buying. And it was it just made sense. It was it’s a big practise. If you’re going to do something, do it properly. So it’s six surgery practise with room to expand to eight, nine surgeries. If we going to it’s got legs to keep keep going if we wanted to. And the patient base is that’s what it is I didn’t know about before, but that’s what made me so happy being there is that, you know, just nice people. And I think it’s probably because I’ve been speaking in broken English ta to page to pay so much, so much Arabic if a fruit working with with with the Qataris.

[00:27:39] But I’m doing it in my hope. My whole console is so in between the two. But just it’s just nice to be able to sit and have a conversation with someone for forty five minutes for an hour and get to know them as a patient and to get them to experience what I’ve learnt through working with my brother, which they may not have seen the dentist that were seen by before, and then also to get the appreciation from those patients which I didn’t feel I was getting from some of the patients that I see in the west end of the street is not you don’t you don’t still get that if you go above and beyond for one of these patients, it’s a whole different story. And if you go above and beyond for a, you know, one of our patients on High Street, because it’s almost like they expect it, they expect they’re coming there, they expect that level. Whereas if you do it for someone in Bromley, it’s kind of like, oh, well, I’m going to go and tell everyone about you. I’m going to write you Google reviews. I’m going to I had a patient cry in my console because she was so happy about being the type of pricing.

[00:28:44] I always found it when when you go from a practise that’s cheaper to practise, is more expensive for about two days, you’re like, what the hell? The prices are high here and then you get used to going the other way. Let’s be difficult. All the prices lower.

[00:29:01] That’s that’s the other thing about I think generally the other good thing about Dental parties is because they know that delivering a certain level of quality, the prices aren’t that. You know, we all the prices generally have around about the same sort of price point, pretty much all of them. And because all the services, the way we do the I mean, just look at next as a dentist, he’s not going to be doing things. How fast is it? He’s going to be doing it every possible way it can be done. So he’s going to charge for it. And as we all do so, our price point isn’t that much lower. It’s expected to be a little bit lower. But, you know, I don’t I don’t I don’t see I don’t notice a massive, massive difference from that,

[00:29:43] You know, your other life as a DJ. So those were that whether that stuff

[00:29:55] I was deejaying from, what year of school was I like twelve, thirteen years old. And I was always I was like a garage deejay, like, you know, making mix tapes of. My friends, I’m seeing thinking we’re super cool, and then I went to uni and one of my biggest regrets is just not doing it for you and I was an idiot. Why would you go to uni and not carry on doing what you kind of always enjoy doing? But it kind of got to the point where I was, like, so annoyed that I didn’t do that at uni that I came out of uni and then went really hard into it. During my first few years after after Dental school, I did like a three month programme, which was like just to kind of catch up with what I’d missed over the last five years. I’m very much like that, by the way. I’ll do a course on something. You know, if I don’t know something, I’ll do a programme or something about learning about it. So I did that. It was like 12 hours a week after work that I’ll go, you know, three, two or three nights a week. And then I just started doing my, my, my, my brother in law. He’s got a couple of clubs and restaurants. My wife’s brother. So you tell him this. He says that I probably killed one of his venues. I started to, but I started doing that, started doing a couple of venues with that. And then I got in contact with Millard’s singing dentist lot again for a number of years since when he was like fifth year of uni. And I was a kid. We had family, friends that were similar. They were they knew each other.

[00:31:31] So I got in contact with him. And then he was like, yeah, OK, I’ll start deejaying together. And then we started doing like secret brunch parties and things like that. And, you know, we had a couple of paid gigs here and there. And then he got too big for me. I guess that he he did mention on this podcast that I was the first one to post this video. I did listen to that. He did shout me out there. So he he gives his success to me. Thank you. Thank you. He urged you. But, yeah, that’s that’s what it is. I think it was kind of it was a lot of it in like 12, 14, 15, 16, something like that. But then I realised that it’s kind of hard to side of the brain thing again. You know, it was I couldn’t do it. It was that that dividing those tunes and having one life that was doing the whole creative deejaying, taking and doing the other side, which was the the work and the clinical work I needed to eat. I needed to make some money. So I took the I took the road to dentistry and I this all those things that, you know, there was always things we always around the crowds of people that I could have taken it a little bit further but were never going to be massive. It was always a hobby. You know, it was always mainly me that I still love the music. I still love the scene. A little bit too old for it now, but I’ve had two years in lockdown, so I’m thinking I’m going to get back on it. But it’s it’s you know, it’s been a hobby of mine more than anything else.

[00:33:01] If you’re that first flight to be far away,

[00:33:04] There’s a couple of times a year we got married. There we go. It’s a very we were thinking of moving there last year. We’re not done. It’s one of those things even crossed our mind. But, yeah, it’s that’s and that’s like a second home.

[00:33:20] And the whole Dental beauty thing, how does it actually work? Did you Coleby a practise together? What was the what was the set when when you got involved with that process

[00:33:30] So that they were this practise they had already kind of put an offer in? Yeah. Normally how it works is if you if you know, it depends if you want to be partner. Yeah. Then approach them and then there’s like keys. As soon as you show any interest or anything with that view, you straight away beyond the most organised person I know you cuz you up there. And then I’d find I struggle to find how much time in the day to do things that he does, but he will call you there and then, and then he’ll get to know you get the information from you and then see where you want to have a practise. Fundamentally that’s the first and foremost thing I think he asks is where where do you want where are you? Where do you want the process to be? And then straight away and, you know, as soon as he finds something, he’ll go in together. You can view the place. If it works, the numbers work. And that’s where I needed the help with I don’t know what I’m looking at these sheets and I don’t know what the numbers mean. I don’t know where it relates to is, although I don’t have the buying power in the sense that when you’re going through a group like that, you’re more likely to get the practise that you want because the backing behind you, you know, there’s your easy ways. It’s easier to get the practise if they think you’re more serious. So as me going in, they don’t know who I am, they don’t know what I’ve got. So I thought, you know, if I did this on my own, it’ll probably get me take me two years to get to the point of just getting the practise to start with. Whereas with these guys, everything was just way faster

[00:35:03] And one foot forty nine. Fifty one model.

[00:35:06] Forty nine. Fifty one. Yeah. Yeah. So and I was fine with that. I did push back on initially but then I thought it makes sense if I was doing it, if I was them that’s how I would do it. You wouldn’t want someone to stop you doing things. You know this. Forty nine. Fifty one. But your decision share is still is to equal. They won’t do anything that I would say I wouldn’t want to do nothing to, but I still feel like the buck stops with me. I still feel like this is your practise. How do you want to run it that will give you advice on things and say, you know, so this, this and this reason when you’re looking at the numbers, this doesn’t make sense. But if you want to do it, go ahead. I guess. And that was important to me from the start.

[00:35:50] The forty nine. Fifty one, just for clarity. They own fifty one percent of the practise you own forty nine percent of it. And in terms of what you bought in, you paid for forty nine percent of the shares or. Exactly. Pound for pound. Or was that like a minority discount.

[00:36:06] It was a, I think it was, it was, it was pound for pound I think. Yeah. We went in that way in terms of getting finance so we didn’t put all the money up is it. Was I put up forty nine percent of the deposit, they put up fifty one percent deposit and then we get bank finance for the rest.

[00:36:23] And then as a as just more on the business side of things as well as you working in the practise doing dentistry, do you get remunerated as a standard associate. REI do you take a salary. How does that

[00:36:35] Work. Yes, initially we didn’t and now we do. So now I get paid as an associate, so it works really well. So, you know, you get you get an associate payout, you have a business. You know, as you do these things, you learn that actually you might not want as much of an associate there because it affects you are the sort of things that have an impact to the valuation of your practise. If you were looking to go down that route, you got to do some sort of things that you learn as you go through. And these are things I wouldn’t have known if I’d done it on my own. So yeah, but yeah, it works really well in that sense that I get associate pay, I get dividends if there are any. And yet the stake in the company, of course,

[00:37:20] And at the Top End, you’ve got this whole machine supporting you in terms of who you are and marketing and all of that.

[00:37:27] Exactly. So you kind of do as much of you as you want to do. You know, they give you autonomy in that sense that if you want to do it all, by all means, by all means, do it. You do it your way. But if you you want the most the people that they take on, as I said, a clinical Dental, if they genuinely just want to do the work and they want to, but they want to do it for themselves. So that’s my main focus is at the moment, my own clinical dentistry, but also kind of getting I’ve got younger dentists that work for me and I guess Kahu Instagram thing. I get a little bit of an Instagram following of younger dentists, you know, somebody who’s Instagram superstars. But there’s there’s people that want to know how I’m doing things. And a couple of those guys messaged me say I I’ll be lucky to work there. And you see that I’ll be a nice way of kind of mentoring a couple of people. Associates in the practise, and that’s what I’m doing now, so I’ve got a couple of younger dentists that I’ve set up, know Dropbox folders, we share photos, we share cases. I make sure that I’m always available if they need me to block of time to see a patient with them. If they want to do a case with me, I want to do that because that’s that’s how I spend my time rather than spending it on, you know, all of the other things that you don’t want to really be doing when you’re running a dental practise. I want to spend it on the clinical side and getting others to do the clinical side the way that I think it should be done or the way that I would like for it to be done if it was done on me. So that’s what I’m kind of doing at the moment. The practise is just showing people the ropes in that sense, I guess.

[00:39:04] And so what do you look for in an associate?

[00:39:08] If I was looking for an associate, I don’t I don’t think I have any interest in what your credentials are of your name. Personally, I think those days from my perspective, I think those days have passed. I think we can we can get top quality dentists now that are driven enough to just do things differently and not do things through the academic way of it being done. So first of all, it’s great if you’ve got those things, but if you haven’t got a portfolio to show me, if you haven’t got a picture, if you if you haven’t taken a photo in the right way of doing what I always say, I’m going to plug it here because it makes a difference. Menasche is caused on photography that focussed course, and the way that he styles the photos actually matters massively to me, because if you can take a photo in that way and you care enough to take the photo in that way, even if the work isn’t quite there yet, it shows you’ve got something to get it to that point where it needs to be because you care, you care about it being done in that in that right way. So I want to see that’s what I’ll be looking for fundamentally, is you show me a portfolio of work, show me how you’ve done it. I don’t actually really care if it’s done that that well at that stage because that will come. It depends on the age of the dentist, I guess. But if you show me the hunger for it, you show me the desire for it. Show me that the eye that you can align the photo in the right way, that that sort of stuff I think matters. I don’t know. I’ll make you go my own on that. But it does make a difference.

[00:40:38] I agree with you. I mean, I interviewed a dentist the other day. Well, shall we say, you know, went through the whole application process. I always say, can you send me your three best cases and and just send me some information about what happened? Not not on the clinical side, but on the emotional side. Yeah. So I want to I want to know, can they communicate and B, do they photograph their work well, et et cetera. And and this one one one lady that stood out and she laid them out properly, she’d cropped the images the way you’d expect them to sit side by side, just the basic stuff. Right. And then the emotional story was this lady came to see me and this is what she couldn’t do. This is what she struggled with. This is what she suffered with. And this is the after piece. And for me, totally in agreement with you is that actually I wasn’t really interested on what courses or postgrad education she done. Right. She was able to show off some some really good work, describe it in a way that was very human.

[00:41:43] Yeah, I think absolutely that. And I think I think that’s fundamentally one of the things if you if I’m looking at what there’s where there’s potential for someone is what I’m doing in that sense. But then it comes to I guess it’s always going to be that communication and how they’re going to be speaking to patients. I think if someone’s coming in to say, I want my teeth whitened, the question back from that should be, why do you want your teeth licence? It should always it shouldn’t be OK. This is what we can do is getting to know that patient and putting the time in to understand why they’re in your chair and why they’ve why they’ve come there, what happened in their life for them to want their teeth to be whitens. You know, that’s that I think is important to having that conversation and being able to hold that conversation and take and keeping it very personal to that patient rather than going down the route of this is how it’s done matters quite a lot, I think. And I think that’s that’s I guess that’s kind of like the latter thing and all of that. But it’s it’s I think it’s more than that. It’s just General. General, I guess you can’t call it sales, but it’s just general patient understanding, you know, knowing how to communicate with people. And influencing is what I’m looking for. I think it’s just generally being able to influence people.

[00:43:07] I guess it all comes down to the good old wolf of Wall Street, less of where the guy says, sell me this pen. Right? Yeah. He doesn’t want an answer where you’re talking about, well, you know, this is a ballpoint pen and this is a fountain pen and this shiny silver. And all the rest is more about, you know, why are you in the market for a pen? Why do you need a pen? What benefits would you get out of this? And just learning their motivations in the ways and that is ultimately I know in dentistry, they call it, you know, it’s not sales, but it is sometimes seen as a dirty word.

[00:43:39] And Prav believe that if we’re

[00:43:42] Right on

[00:43:45] The other side of the coin, where you’ve got the dentist jumps into the clinical hair and tries to explain to the patient the full value in a classically I want my teeth whitened old starts showing them syringes and trade and all of that. So even though you’re saying sales, this could just as well be service, you know, understanding patients, understanding motivations and connecting with people as opposed to just treating teeth.

[00:44:17] Yeah, for sure. That is that is 100 percent what it’s about. I think when I’m looking at now even dental practises and what I see is what should be a successful practise. I’m not going to look at other dental practises. I’m going to look at hospitality. I’m going to look at hotels and look at and I think that’s a lot of guys are doing now, Robbie Hughes and all of these that I know which are doing it that way. And but it’s still not enough. I don’t think I think there’s there’s still a huge market, huge gap for other practises to to do the same thing. That’s the best thing

[00:44:48] You could do for your staff in Bromley, is take them for a weekend to an amazing hotel to show an amazing

[00:44:55] Service. I can’t wait to do that because they you know, a lot of them have been to those places. I haven’t seen those sorts of places. It’ll be a pleasure to do that. I think that’s that’s that’s really what would be a lovely thing to do, especially after all of this stuff, because it makes a massive, massive difference, because, you know, I think that’s where the other aspects of you think everyone knows it. But that’s only because you may surround yourself with people that mean, you know, you hang out with people that go to the same places as you or you eat the same restaurants and things like that. So you see that sort of thing all the time. So you think it’s normal, but not enough people have experienced that sort of thing to to be able to deliver it to someone else, you know?

[00:45:38] And, you know, there’s also a kind of person who wants to be of service and a kind of person who thinks it’s demeaning to be you know, this is the kind of person thing, you know, when you said, how do you what do you look for in an associate outside of work? You mentioned some of the clinical stuff. That’s what I would look for is is it the kind of person who takes pride or pleasure, pleasure in being of service to other people?

[00:46:06] Yeah, yeah. It is key, I think, to the point where, you know, as a Dental beauty practises have an element of what a small my practise is, got a very small NHS contract. But if I’m seeing and I haven’t said that I won’t see NHS patients even though I haven’t seen any patient for a long time, because when the NHS patient comes in, I’m giving them that hour appointment, I’m giving forty and I’m doing it in the exact same flow because then that patient sees that level so they may not have experience it. They may again, they may not even be in the restaurant, but you can be the person that delivers it in your dental practise that converted. You know, you don’t have to then go through the the conversation that no one wants to have about this service. And they already see the difference. They already know they’re already kind of they’re like, yeah, OK, I get it. I see I’m presenting in front of them on a big screen with the photos that are dutifully taken, all of this sort of stuff. And, you know, they already they’re already on board. It’s just delivering it, I guess.

[00:47:11] Afterwards you said you can enjoy orthodontics, Invisalign so much. And I see your composite work on online a lot. Is that the kind of work you enjoy the most or is that just good for Instagram, what you enjoy?

[00:47:28] You know, a fallback is that you a lot recently in that I, I would have originally said, you know, it’s quite sexy sounding like you’re saying to people, I’m a cosmetic dentist, but I don’t actually think I am a cosmetic dentist. And that’s not what I do if I’m doing what I do day in, day out is general dentistry. And that is probably because I like doing general dentistry, not because I do like doing the composite stuff. It does the artistic side. That is enjoyable, but I love a root canal. I still do. I still do my own root canal. Generally, I think is what I said is, is that generalist thing? I think that is what is what I really enjoy just covering as many angles as I can, but doing them all well. And, you know, if you can do that, if you can do it all well, then why not write a note saying, I cannot, but I’m aiming to. I think that’s what I would I would love to be able to do. Well, I love to be able to do all right and be that kind general. And that’s probably what I want to be down the line. And that’s why I’ve started implants. And I again, I went full steam with that.

[00:48:38] I Fazila, your your your previous guest, she has been like a best friend to me, the froufrou the last three or four years. However, she was on I listen to her podcasts and I think how she came across on that is is how she is. She’s hot on the sleeve. She will do anything for you, you know, that has helped me massively. So mentoring is is key for any young dentist is find someone that you can have that relationship with physical. It took me under a wing and I went I took a day off work for two years before I bought the practise. I was there every Wednesday. I’m paid as my own choice as to take one day off and just to stand by her. Doing surgery was a great thing to do that that, you know, for any aspects of dentistry that you’re into, if you can find someone that will let you do that, she’d always take that opportunity 100 percent because those are the guys that have been through it. Again, seeing how she speaks to patients. And that it just resonated with me is we have a great understanding with each other. She she trusts me a lot. I think I think she’ll let me do her teeth.

[00:49:47] So, you know, all of this sort of stuff messes. And when you have that relationship with someone and you go with someone that way, whether it’s a friend, whether it’s a mentor or whatever, you know, you’ve got to you’ve got to ride that wave. You’ve got to you’ve got to find someone that you can do that with. But, yeah, dentistry is another thing that I’m trying to add to my bone physical because she’s very cute. She will help you. She will guide you, open all the doors for you. But are you going to make the step? Are you going to make the leap to do the work? But she you know, she’s she’s allowed me to teach the little stuff that I do know on her on our implant course, which is it’s a great course because it’s it’s not easy. There’s always there with infinite knowledge. But it’s good to be also shown the ropes by people that have just done it a couple of years earlier. To you, with her backing behind you, you say she is run by her, but it’s great for us to be able to input the little knowledge we have. Perspective, I think is a good thing.

[00:50:42] Payman, how did you just sort of approach Fazila and say, hey, I want to come and hang out with you every Wednesday or whatever it was, and I’m going to do this for two years or whatever was that? Was that the connexion with your brother or an introduction or.

[00:50:56] I think I said it’s another funny story. You speaks about her with her, about it. She was putting on a lecture. I didn’t want to go. It was a friend of mine that I’d put on the lecture and that she was she was doing I was I’m not that interested in parts of the outcome because, you know, we’re going to marry Shafter. So we just up I did like Charles. Like, oh, this is actually quite interesting. I was and I sat next to her at dinner. And for her, if if she if she sat next to someone, she would always make the effort to talk to you, get to speak to you and be as friendly as she is. So we got talking. Two days later, I signed up to a course and that’s how it all started. But then after that, to get to the point where, you know, she let me see her patients or to let me shadow her next to her patients. We became friends. We I was through her whatever her GDC thing, all this stuff we would be with, I was there for her. I wanted to be there for her. So we were we became good friends, I guess. And as a result of that, we are where we are,

[00:52:05] Right place, right time, serendipity

[00:52:07] And all that sort of thing as well. Again, I say to another thing I say to two other dentists or younger dentists is to expose yourself to as much as you possibly can, because I think she said it in her podcast that you want to listen to where she said that, you know, people do what they can do or what they know about. That’s what the dentist we only provide. We may only provide the care that we can personally deliver. But if you don’t know what is out there and what is possible to do, you’ll be very limited by what you can do, because what you can provide is a drop in the ocean as to what can be provided. So exposing yourself to as much as possible not only brings you contacts, brings you networking, but will also give you more knowledge even if you can’t provide it yourself. You know, there’s some that it can be done. I think that’s a different thing, that some some some sometimes take things like gum grafting and all this sort of perio stuff that I didn’t even know could be done. So I was slapping composite on that. It was like, no, actually, that’s not the right thing to do. You’ve lost gum in that area. Why am I putting composite there? You need gum. So let’s let’s send you to this guy to to do that, because that’s what you actually need say. And that’s, I guess, the the whole general thing. Again, people like Cora do that. People will do that. People like to do that. But it’s you know, it’s exposing yourself to as much as possible. As early as you can see that you’re aware of these things is is very important.

[00:53:42] How did you find. Look, I had this issue when I stopped dentistry, then came back to dentistry, and then when I came back to the industry that we didn’t need to be a dentist, it was I was just doing it because, you know, I was a dentist. Yeah. And I thought, I’m not going to do anything that isn’t to my top of my knowledge, as in as if there was someone better for the job. That other person should be doing that job and as well. But then there’s always someone better than me being a little bleaching, a little bit of it’s a difficult one with a patient.

[00:54:24] It’s a great question. There is always someone that I’d say you’ve kind of just made me think, oh my God, what am I doing? Anything you need to go somewhere, like what is going on? It’s probably I you’re you’re very right. I think definitely do things within your scope that is obviously very important, but not to the point where you limit yourself completely as well. So you get scared of everything. You know, I think that that’s that’s a massive thing as well. I think you’re always going to be a little bit a little bit brave and have the confidence in yourself. And if you don’t have the confidence, then get the confidence by getting the mentors and getting the experience. And, you know, I think my post is if you’re talking about my composite stuff, which I guess is what I guess is still what I’m best, that is pure in the numbers. You know, like I’m quite ashamed to say, I haven’t I haven’t done your course. I haven’t I haven’t done one cause I’ve done one composite course. And I don’t think that’s the right way. But I’ve done numbers. I’ve done a lot of composite work, you know, and that was because I had carries on carries with these patients that I’ve had with the embassy. And I’ve had the time because that’s the other aspect of it, is a lot of these younger dentists don’t have the privilege of the time to spend that day and told how long they can spend on a patient they’re being dictated to in terms of targets. So nothing takes away from having to do the work you’ve got. You’ve got to have done those cases. But I would still I would still send things on, though. I’m composite stuff, probably won’t. But, you know, I’m still not doing that many of my own implants I still get nervous about. I still think that way. More people that can do this better than me restoring them, I’ll do them very well. I do

[00:56:21] A comprehensive research form format, three apps and that sort of thing

[00:56:26] Formats the format. Rehab’s the the Fazila way, which is not which is the better way, which is, you know, the short span bridges, that sort of stuff. And, you know, I know you’re probably going to ask my, my, my clinical mistakes, but, you know, those are the cases that that sort of stuff I’ve noticed happening is those cases where I’ve taken on too much. I’ll take it, you know, and it’s case selection because both of those cases were my mum and my mother in law. They’re both the most by far the most complex cases I’ve ever even attempted. They were done with with Fazila. But a lot of the restorative element I kind of took on myself and Zyda probably laughing at me for doing it. I go and then if you could. But I think it’s one of those things that those cases, the ones that you really learn from this is like, OK, but it’s still doing it. You know, having done that, once I pick the right case because it was on the moment, not going to take me to the easy, at least I hope not. But, you know, those sort of cases, I’ve learnt massive, massive things about just just you know, the best thing about temporaries and stuff like that is that the hand skills from that came from those cases of just being able to to deal with those sorts of things. So you need to do them. You need to do the pick the right people to do them on that aren’t going to go you too many headaches and too many sleepless nights.

[00:58:01] What have been your biggest clinical mistakes?

[00:58:05] Biggest clinical mistakes, I think. So my answer to that question was going to be about it was going to be done, we’ve done we’ve done it all. I’ve put roofs and sinuses cafecito. I’ve just I’ve done you know, I’ve done the whole a patient can’t just decide to swallow on me as I’m like with forty thousand, I’ll be in my Gromit’s and Lingley and then suddenly you just in your seven time loop see the frenulum wrap around this thing. Will what happened that all those nasty things that that have happened

[00:58:40] To this one, something you’ve learnt from a mistake but you know you can help others with.

[00:58:47] Learn from a mistake. I was always is always going to be case champagne, I think is always the key thing for me is always just knowing what your limits are and what you learn from it is getting through it. I think having having done that, having messed that up, what can I take away from this is that we got through it. The patient still OK and assorted. The problem that, you know, you’ve got to if you can’t do it yourself, you’ve got to find someone who can help you do it. And once you get past that situation, then you don’t have to do it right. So that’s what you can take away from it because you’ve done it. You messed it up. You found out how to fix it and you fixed it and now you know how to do so. Carry on. You know that that’s the process. There’s that cycle that we go through every day. I think as young, younger than this, I think that’s that’s what we go for, at least the ones that are doing things. You know, I think the ones that are making any moves or that sort that we have, we’ve made mistakes because we’re brave enough, I guess, to attempt it in the first place. I don’t want a lot of people to go out and start doing things just to try them out now, but do it within your scope. But it’s that that, I think is what I’ve learnt in terms of

[01:00:04] Business Payman any business mistakes.

[01:00:07] You know, not not yet, because that’s because I’m not as experienced yet, I think actually, yes. One thing we have with with a practise like a group like Dental, butI. Is that we bought the practise we took over the next day, the day after that, we had builders in, right, because they had they know the model that they got in. And I know that having looked into this, more people are saying that for the first six months you shouldn’t do anything. You should just learn the business, learn the people that work for you, speak to the people that I’ve come into a practise that was 40 years established, maybe longer. I think we have wait even longer than that. But the people that had been there had been there for 30 odd years. A lot of them. Right. A lot of people have been there for 30 odd years. So you’ve got this new guy come in, come into the place and just destroy it. If these guys were saying that it was like a bereavement, that’s how they described us coming into this practise, because that’s that’s all they know. That’s that’s you know, you’ve come in so that you’ve come into their front room and you’ve just woken up and you’ve just trashed the place and you haven’t even really spoken to them about it. You’ve just come in and done that. So from a business perspective, is management of those people fundamentally is being able to communicate with those guys and be like and reassure them, show that everything’s OK. I don’t think anyone should go that quickly, but that’s how it’s done with NBC because they know how it’s going to work and it does work for them.

[01:01:47] And now we are six months down the line and we’re doing very well as a practise that the staff are getting on board. But we’re still not quite there because you’ve got an inexperienced guy as a manager coming in to deal with people that sometimes almost twice my age. Not quite. But a lot of people have been there for a long, long time, being almost told what to do by someone who they think hasn’t got a clue. So and they might be right. So it’s it’s a case of knowing the people that you’re working with, getting to know those people before you, making any drastic changes before you go in and really understand their concerns, understand what they’re what they’re worried about and address those concerns. I think that’s what I’m a lot more and that’s what I’m supposed to be learning in the role that I’m in as a clinical director. I suppose as Dental future. I mean, I’m more of a management position of managing the clinical aspects of that business. But also I’ve got to be there for all the staff. And that that aspect, I think is is probably what I’ve learnt the most about what I’ve done. And, you know, this actually came from this how much I suppose I’ve listened to this podcast at the time. I think it was Mark Hughes. He said, I’m quitting this podcast, Dental Leaders hearing

[01:03:16] Previous episodes keep coming

[01:03:21] Back in November 2010 when we

[01:03:25] Should citations list at the end of every podcast.

[01:03:30] He said he said that he wished you did an MBA. Right. So I was like, OK, that’s interesting. I’ve always thought about doing an MBA and I’ve just bought a practise. And he said that that would speed things up for him so much. So I was like, OK, the first thing I did, I bought the personal MBA book that I a very good book, recommended highly personal and be a contributor. I mean, it’s really good. But then I also start searching MBAs, and that’s not unless you do a short course, 10 week MBA essentials. And I’m seven weeks into that maths and I’ve just signed on to that

[01:04:07] One, seven weeks of it

[01:04:09] In two weeks. And this is intense.

[01:04:11] This is as a help with the Dental practise.

[01:04:14] So again, last week was the whole leadership management influencing all of that sort of stuff. Then it’s going to go on. Then it goes on to, you know, reading, finance, reading, accountancy, all of these sort of things that are the essential things that you need to. And I don’t I don’t I don’t know. Maybe some people will say you need an MBA is a Dental practise. I don’t think you don’t. But I think it was good to do that and to be in the process of it because I’m just relating everything back to the practise and being at it right at the beginning where I’m just kind of looking at it like, guess this means this, this means this. I can relate this to this. I can go in and start doing this and try this out as made an impact. I think I think that it made me more confident. I think I felt like a bit of an imposter.

[01:04:58] The thing is the thing is, did we as dentists, we think we need to do a course for everything. Yeah. Some of the some of the top business people in the country are corner shop owners and then in the course. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Listen, man, I’m no expert, but business is looking after your customers, looking after your people, looking after your suppliers. That that is the. That’s it. Absolutely. Do you do an MBA? Sure. Do an MBA. Yeah, but but you know, it’s not going to be the answer. Then the answer you’re looking for is Dental. We just think we have to keep doing courses like as if you want to do bone grafting, go do a bone grafting course. You know, when you look look on the high street man, there’s a restaurant. That guy didn’t go on an MBA to run his restaurant.

[01:05:52] It’s all right. So whatever whatever you’re learning, you have to apply it almost immediately.

[01:05:58] But I could see it’s a massive change for you to go from being an associate at your brother’s place, a tiny place like that, to basically the principal at this huge place.

[01:06:10] Yeah, I mean, we need to pay for staff.

[01:06:13] Yeah. What about the practise managers, the practise manager, an incumbent, or is that someone Dental but you’ve imposed.

[01:06:19] Yes, she came, she joined with us basically say yes. Yes. This year we added her. I have to I guess I have I have an existing practise manager that was there before. And so all the

[01:06:32] Staff issues she deals with is all right.

[01:06:35] Yes. I mean, they’ll go through her at times. At times, I think we do it all together. I think it’s going to have a meeting with everyone today, even just to say that I want everything to be done together. This is not just me telling you guys how my vision is for this practise. You’ve been here for this long. You’ve been here for a long time. Me and Sophie, as a person as you have just come in here. I want suggestions from you. I don’t just want problems. I want solutions to those problems. Are you going to give me a if you have a problem with something, I would like to know what your opinion is, how to sort it out, and I’ll give you my opinion on how to sort it out and then we’ll get to some sort of middle ground that we both understand and then we move forward from it. I think that’s how I’m trying to deal with it. And that’s how. Yeah, any staff issues or anything at the moment. I want to try and deal with as we as we go ahead. And these are things that I’m learning, these things that I’ve picked up, that it doesn’t work for me just to tell you this is how it’s going to be done, because that’s not going to make you committed to making any changes. It’s going to make you compliant. It’s going to make you say, OK, but then go away and then actually make a change and do things for the practise, for the benefit of the practise.

[01:07:49] Would you get up to if you got a half a day to yourself? No one I run, yeah,

[01:07:55] That’s my new thing, I guess, like lockdown thing, massive running at the moment. I’ve got a half marathon coming up, training quite intensely for. So that’s if I’m being good. If I’m being not so good, then it’s a different story. It depends on which side, which, you know, what time it is. What what type of day is that we can’t be talking about here or it’s

[01:08:20] Just that

[01:08:25] I think of myself. Yeah. I mean, normally at the moment it’s running in the morning. I live in a lovely place at the moment in lovely area. So, you know, there’s everything’s on my doorstep. I go to games and get a get a coffee and across, you know, I’ve got a nice Italian deli that I might go and get some nice stuff for lunch. Just general things. Now, I guess, you know, I’m enjoying the that side of life a little bit more now, I guess. Slowing things down a bit.

[01:08:55] And a DJ set up already in your house, like in your flat,

[01:08:59] If it’s a depends on what time of day you’re talking about. Again, the decks, the decks on sets up, there’s no enough space. It basically sets up. But people come around at the moment, of course. But you know well, previously, how we would normally do it is that people would have come round and yeah, we’ll get the decks out and some and some drinks out and we’ll have I’m looking forward to getting back to those times, you know, getting getting back to some sort of normality with that

[01:09:28] Prav likes to end it in the same way every time

[01:09:32] Payman seem strange asking Payman.

[01:09:35] And every time you say, is Prekop

[01:09:41] The old

[01:09:44] Legend, it’s your it’s your last day on the planet and you’ve got your your loved ones around you. And what three pieces of wisdom would you share with them?

[01:09:58] Yes, I thought about this one. I think all of these things are things that I would hope that I become more of rather than actually these things that I currently am. I think they’re just things that are important. And one thing that I’m noticing, more moment being comfortable, being uncomfortable is a is a good thing. I’m noticing that you came from running that one that says that that’s one of those things that taught me.

[01:10:22] I got the same one from my personal trainer.

[01:10:25] Oh, yeah, definitely, I think it’s yeah, I think yeah, it relates to a lot of things. I’m noticing that a lot more now. I think I spent a lot of time being comfortable again with the job that I was always given. Kind of kept me happy, just plodding along, doing what I was doing every day until I kind of just made that step to be like, OK, I now want to own my own practise. And it was an uncomfortable thing to do. And I’m uncomfortable every day, but I feel better every day as a result of that. I think that that was quite important. And living in practise, not Dental practises in live life in practise of whatever you’re doing. Never think that whatever you’re doing is the end, is always a process, is always learning, learning more every day. So you never perfecting anything. It’s always practise and always getting better at it that way. One one percent at a time. Right. And the other one that I put was form follows function. That’s one that I think is one that I would like to do more than I currently do. I do things now when I feel like it’s perfect to do them. Rather than starting and seeing how things go, like I guess that’s the whole course thing, right, because it’s like if I’m going to run a business, I need to do an MBA and be perfect at running a business. But it’s very much make a start and see where it takes you. I think that’s what I’m trying to do more of. It’s not natural to me to do that, but I very much think that that’s where people become successful in anything that they do. Mm hmm. And even even to form friendships to whatever, you know, raising a family could have just just do it. Have that baby. Don’t delay. That’s OK.

[01:12:29] And how would you like to be remembered? What would you like to leave behind as your legacy? So Payman was Dental to complete the sentence.

[01:12:41] I think there’s nothing better than being inspirational in some way. I think it’s. Whatever whatever you whatever we’re doing with it is nothing. There’s no bigger compliment. Then having inspired someone else to either do the same thing or to make a move in something. So I think that’s what I would like to achieve, I think I’m not there yet. I think it’s a long way to go to get anywhere near the. But having been inspired by so many throughout my life from, you know, my brothers, from mentors, from whoever, to be able to then be someone that inspires others, I think is will be beautiful.

[01:13:27] Lovely. And finally, she had 30 days left and you had all all your faculties intact, your health, and there were no budgetary constraints or would you be doing in that 30 days?

[01:13:43] I think I would do yeah, I think I think I’ll keep it simple. I’m not I’m not one that feels like I need to go and travel the world and see all of these extra things. I never really been and probably not a good thing, actually. But what I like to do if I’m going away somewhere, I like to be on a beach in a nice restaurant. Beach Club vibe sort of thing, kind of sitting there with my body. Rosie, I think I’m just like a basic bitch. But I think just being in the environment with my friends in the sun, having a good time listening to good music, taking over the decks. Yeah, 100 percent. I think that is that is very much my happy place to be.

[01:14:34] 30 days in the beach with it. Yeah.

[01:14:37] I’m just trying to not save us.

[01:14:41] Twenty four to six days in Formentera

[01:14:45] To come up with this. Yeah, I think it’s just I mean, the main point of that, though, is not the environment. Whatever it is, the people that I’ve had those memories with and spent time with, you know, I have a wife that had been with for 16 years. We’ve grown up together from me to spend that time, continue to spend that time with her would be a blessing and to be around the people that we have, the friends that we share. And all of that is in the family that we have to be so lucky to have would be, would be, would be ideal.

[01:15:27] As lovely man. Beautiful. It’s been a real pleasure having you, buddy. It’s been a long time coming.

[01:15:34] Thank you.

[01:15:38] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with Emerging Leaders Street. Your house, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[01:15:54] Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it

[01:16:09] If you did get some value out of it. Think about subscribing and if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it, too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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