We’re pleased to have Dr Rupert Monkhouse on this week’s show. Rupert’s growing reputation in the world of dentures has led him to become pretty influential as we talk dentistry and Instagram.

Hear us chat about the ins and outs of prosthodontics, the ideal methods and techniques to create the most beautiful dentures and the best ways to communicate with patients.

Rupert shares his experiences in travelling, coaching, swimming and the big switch from NHS to private practice. 



“You know, for any patient, psychology is really, really important… It’s all about sort of drip-feeding your thoughts throughout it. If you tell them it might be a mistake at the start it’s consented. You know, if you say after the fact, then you’re making excuses.” – Rupert Monkhouse


In This Episode


01.16 – Growing up in the Midlands

02:29 – An athlete’s mindset

05.12 – A change of pace

08.59 – 543

16:22 – Prosthodontics

18:10 – Building good habits

23:01 – Ideal materials

25:29 – Gingival focus

31:55 – Travelling

34:59 – Going into teaching

37:53 – Pushing yourself

39:25 – Opening a practice

43:51 – NHS to private

46:05 – The psychology of the patient

48:35 – TMJ

52:02 – From Worcester to the big city

55:28 – Having a partner in the profession

56:43 – Legacy & last days on Earth


About Rupert Monkhouse


Rupert is from Worcester and qualified from King’s College in London. He then spent some time in Hull as part of his foundation training before moving back to West London where he still lives today.

Rupert’s main interest lies in prosthodontics where he plans to train further. His reputation as ‘The Denture Guy’ is partly thanks to his growing following on Instagram where he has set the standard for clinical photography as well as quality prosthodontics. 

Away from dentistry, Rupert enjoys travelling, photography and swimming, which he still coaches. You can follow Rupert on Instagram at @dentistrupert and follow the Dental Leaders Podcast at @dentalleaderspodcast.

[00:00:00] You know, for any patient, the psychology are really, really important, but it’s all about trying to gauge if you’re going through the process of making a set of five appointments or whatever it is you end up doing. It’s all about sort of drip feeding your thoughts throughout it, saying it’s very much know people would say it’s if you tell them at the end it’s a mistake, if you tell them at the start it’s 10 cents or whatever. You know, if you say after the fact, then you’re making excuses.

[00:00:29] This is Dental Leaders the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging Leaders Dental Street. Your hosts, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki,

[00:00:47] Gives me great pleasure to welcome Rupert Monkhouse onto the podcast, may be known to most of us as dentistry, but on Instagram I come across Rupert, who’s managed to make the unsexy, sexy. Good to have you back

[00:01:05] To just having me on

[00:01:06] The list. We’ll get to how you got so heavily, heavily into removable prosthetics. But let’s start from the beginning. What’s your background story? Where did you grow up? Why did you become a dentist? What kind of kid were you?

[00:01:19] Yeah, I grew up in in the Midlands, in Worcester. And yeah, a lot of what I was doing it sort of early on school days was I was doing a lot of swimming at the time, so I was very heavily involved in that and think dentistry. I got involved sort of 15, 16, a GCSE, I think it was. And I was just at my but my dentist and he was doing fish sealants another and I found it interesting. What’s this? What’s that. And the week for work experience was coming up in the next half term or whatever it was, wasn’t I hadn’t got anything lined up yet. So I said, can I come with you? And that was it. And I thought, this is quite cool and went from there. So it’s sort of solons. It really is not something I’ve been thinking on for ages. And it was just sort of these last two years and I was quite science Yanyuwa. So that had limited myself with subjects. But yeah, it just sort of came from that.

[00:02:11] Did you say swimming?

[00:02:13] Yeah, yeah. I was a competitive summersaults doing like 16 hours a week in the pool. Oh my God. I was in the gym and that kind of stuff until third year of being asked to stop training and then carried on coaching for the last two years at uni. So I didn’t really have much time to do to do anything else

[00:02:29] That, you know, we’ve had a few people on here who were to have athletes of one one description or another. I mean, I’m thinking of Robbie Hughes was a big martial artist and a few. Do you find that that sort of athlete’s mindset, are you applying that to dentistry in any way, you know, that sort of beating yourself and going up against your, you know, being better today than you were yesterday and the discipline and the he said obsession. Do you think it does relate somehow?

[00:03:01] Yeah, I’m definitely quite a perfectionist, but I think I was about that like just personality anyway. But I think definitely of the discipline was is like a really big thing. So, you know, the three days a week I was getting up at quarter five to get in the pool at half past six. So I caught to get in the fourth quarter to six and then go straight to school and that kind of stuff. So you had to balance your work really well and you have to be disciplined with getting stuff done. And like our final was like in fifth year I was coaching rather than actually swimming at the time. But I was in Sheffield for two weeks, the two weeks of finals and I was in Sheffield. Well, I literally had my summer in the morning, went down Saturday exam and came back the same day. And that was there for another week afterwards. And I had to really balance getting all the revision done. And but it gives you that ability to do it because you had to do it. So I think it definitely is a part of that discipline side of it.

[00:03:58] So what level were you swimming at and teaching? Coaching.

[00:04:02] So as a as a swimmer, I went to the Commonwealth Trials 2014, so I was like top twenty. That came seventeenth. And then coaching I coached to National Tewson is where National Medals, British British championship medals under fifteen on the seventeen. Well so pretty, pretty high level.

[00:04:24] And so it’s a way past just the question of swimming. Right. Was everything else, the nutrition side and all, all of that sort of jazz.

[00:04:34] Yeah, definitely. Like sort of the, it was a lot of self-taught stuff, I mean and researching and there’s loads of articles and forums and things and going into that and then the coaching, I’ve I’ve done my qualifications, so I’m not qualified to be a like a head coach if I wanted to and things like that. But that was more just from my own experience of of being an athlete. Yeah. That’s on the of the backup career. If I want day or.

[00:05:01] Commentator Oh yeah.

[00:05:02] Oh that’s great. I’ll be off to Tokyo. The idea.

[00:05:08] So tell me about the Dental school. Where did you qualify.

[00:05:12] I was it kings qualified four years ago out twenty. Seventeen. So that was, that was good. So then I was still doing some training stuff the first couple of years and then it just got too busy after that. So then just sort of but still doing the coaching but not, not getting in the pool and then at King’s up in the up and Guys Tower really enjoyed a bit of a change of pace from little old town of Worcester. So it’s a great place to be in. Such a big school, you meet so many different people then, and we take them, and that’s where a lot of the stuff really started for me because I like children. So they’re very, very passionate. CHUTER you know, those kind of teachers that are sort of dragging you on and who was there in his name is Andre Topolice. He’s back out in Cyprus now, but he was running the Matchbox prosthodontics guys as well. So it was a bit of that. Still, he’s just a fantastic teacher and it really got him enthused. And and he sort of just drove down, sort of let you dive into it. And that’s that’s where it all sort of came from, that really.

[00:06:14] So, I mean, you know, I talk to a lot of people and, you know, it is a standard advice that people give to become really good generalist first and then look at, you know, specialising in. And when I say specialising, I don’t even necessarily mean the specialist, you know, name of being a specialist. But, you know, dialling it into something very specific for me. Some of the most successful people I’ve met in dentistry specialised really early. You know, they started knowing what they wanted to do really, really early on. What do you say to that? I mean, I know you’ve got you’ve got a very good general knowledge of dentistry. And just by listening to your life sessions, you can say that you’re definitely a Dental geek of sorts.

[00:07:00] Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:02] But it sounds like you’re saying you’re telling me in your third year of dental school you decided you were going to get dentures

[00:07:10] And that it was definitely in third year. That’s where that started. Yeah, but then in fourth year, I had a really good perio tutor. And I like, you know, I’m sort of one of those I like. I’ll dive into it and then get really, really drawn into it. So then I was like 40. I loved. Yeah. And then in fifth year it was just like just the good life. Really good General Collins tutors and just really enjoyed sort of GDP and it’s very much just just like that. But then the more it moved on, it’s sort of that the pro side of it, I did enjoy more and more. But again, it was just sort of fluky. So I went up to to Yorkshire for my birthday. I went up to hope and they had

[00:07:51] A lot of full. Full. Yeah. Right.

[00:07:55] Yeah. Very, very, very high needs. Very high needs. We have an in-house lab so the technicians on site and you can pop in and plant stuff and chat through things. But we also had the station contract like East Riding of Yorkshire, so they would come in for an assessment and then the next month it was like the first Monday of the month, I think it was. And then the next month they’d come in. And if they hadn’t been made immediate and by their GDP, they got sent to me to make seven dentures. So it meant that erm I, FDR just made tons and tons and tons and just got the ball cap rolling. And then my first practise outside of FDR down the road in Fulham, again, just like really, really high needs and just it just carried on like that and then started the work where I am now with my prosthodontics Dental and I’ve just been as just sort of spiralled like that. It’s just sort of all fallen to guide me down that path.

[00:08:49] There was a practise in how it wasn’t the one year. It wasn’t this gigantic one five something five five,

[00:08:59] Four, three. Yeah it well yeah it

[00:09:02] Was really amazing. Amazing what a place. Just I mean I don’t know what it was like now but I went there maybe twelve years ago or something.

[00:09:15] Are they both houses since then.

[00:09:17] I mean they owned every single house on the block.

[00:09:20] Right. Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:22] And is it still the same. Was that the Doctor Green Bridge.

[00:09:26] So it’s his sons run it now.

[00:09:28] Yeah.

[00:09:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:09:31] But what a crazy place that is. I mean they’ve literally bought every single house on the on the block

[00:09:37] And yeah I think it’s five terraced houses. Might be six now. It’s a crazy place but it was an awesome place to do today and they’re so, so supportive and you could just do whatever you not whatever you want to. But, you know, there’s a one way if you want to be a good GDP in the NHS, doing loads of stuff will teach you that. If you want to focus on doing really nice composite work, go for it. If you want to do loads of whatever it is, is like will help you to do it because there were so many dentists there. I think it’s sort of sixteen, seventeen dentists you’d find even if it wasn’t a training, you could find someone to mentor you and help you with something

[00:10:17] What a crazy cause is. And what were the Christmas parties like? I mean, how many how many people, how, how many employees were there? Just like giant. It was like a Dental hospital.

[00:10:26] Yeah. It must, it must be like fifty, forty fifty surely

[00:10:31] More than

[00:10:33] A massive, massive. I think we had about eight receptionists and nine receptionists or something. Well it probably was over. If they actually but it’s it was an awesome, awesome place and super lucky to have as my foundation because I thought my got it got Leeds or Yorkshire won or whatever it was. And I was, but I wouldn’t change it for the world. I want to I wanted to stay in London. I was hoping to carry on my coaching in South London and things like that. And I was actually quite sort of gutted, really. I sort of got but went back and it was sort of similar to what’s a similar size, similar sort of demographic and things. But then the practise was just completely lucked out. I wouldn’t change it at all.

[00:11:13] And then you went straight from there to a practise in full and you say,

[00:11:16] Yeah, so the big one on the North End Road. And it’s just until I read that the big blue one year 30th is quite it was quite sort of similar similar sort of patient base, similar sort of size as well, because that one’s fourteen surgeries, VSS, isn’t it. Yeah, yeah. It’s it’s huge. There’s two new ones too. And then there’s Bassman as well and there’s an upstairs surgeries too.

[00:11:44] So we should we should, we should let everyone know that. I mean you live five minutes away from the once one seats away from each other. Yeah.

[00:11:53] Not too

[00:11:53] Far. And yet we’re doing this overservice. We should go for that beer right after this.

[00:11:59] You look looking good if you want to follow suit.

[00:12:06] Ok, explain it to me, man, because I’ve got a interestingly similar early story to you as far as prosthetics goes. Yeah, because I did a house job. It was called it was called restorative dentistry, but a good third of it was prosthetics. And and there was a I study in Cardiff. And Cardiff was one of these high needs, sort of awful towns as well. And I had a teacher I had a consultant who I loved as well in Cardiff. You used to just really just make it interesting. And then my job was with a guy called Nick Mahindra. Have you come across him now? So he does this thing now where he raises increases vertical dimension by like ridiculous amounts. Now, this doesn’t seem like such a big thing to do, but back then they used to tell us, you know, like three millimetres at most you can add. And he was like doing thirty, but he was doing it. Indentures was doing in the benches and changing faces. So I watched him. He would even set up the teeth himself, you know, and I remember him getting, you know, talking about sort of the mindset of the the Dental patient and all that. And and then I remember thinking as a young guy, I felt like I just didn’t want to just have older patients, you know? And he was in Harley Street and I used to go over there and everything. And it was that was exciting. And then we looked at bleaching and. But what about you? I mean, do you not think that was the story there? I mean, OK, you like it, right?

[00:13:40] But why not? Why that and not long bleach and blonde. Yeah. Yeah. I like like you said, the changes you can make, I really enjoy that. And the more the more I’ve gotten into it now and the more I’m working with my awesome technician, just all these incredible things, you know, the more I think it’s a blank canvas and you can get a bit arty with a really and you can make massive, massive difference and then you can do it with other bits as well. But I like the planning side of it. I like the big picture and really getting sort of thinking things through. And as you say, like changing, changing over there and opening them up or putting them back in the right position. And almost at the start of side of it, I do sort of always will. Maybe I can do some story. I don’t I don’t mind the Orlando, you know, I could do a bit of a start to move it, but I think I just like the scope that you have with it. And not just I still do all general dentistry, but I just enjoy this and I, I share it only that’s the only stuff I share that I still enjoy all sides of that. I’m not that bothered about cosmetic stuff, but I think it’s more that in the practise that I’m in now, we’ve got the ended on this. We’ve got the periodontist, we’ve got the guy who loves all of his invasion bonds which go, if you’re going to come here, you may as well go and see the guy is going to do it better. And I have no qualms in doing that because I get I get really stressed about doing the bonding and things like that. I just I just feel more comfortable doing doing the pro side of it

[00:15:15] And is is is getting a high needs area. I mean, how are you doing so much for forwork. Are you getting referred it

[00:15:22] So the it’s all private where I am now and it’s mainly referrals or it’s it’s a lot of self referrals. So I’m working under essentially under my boss, Nick Fay. He goes across the dentist and most of the cases. I’ve been sharing on Instagram from literally since we came back from lockdown so that literally within the last eight, nine months and it’s things like when we came back, we’ve been running sort of adverts for teeth in a day and things like that. And if they that comes through and they say maybe it’s not quite what I had in mind or budget or whatever they say, or you can have a sense of self complaints and then they come my way. So that’s why I’m doing a lot of cases. Actually, it came from it came from that. And the girls on the phone know now that if someone calls asking about dentures, they get some strange as a new patient rather than one of the other generalists.

[00:16:18] But are you not going to get involved with implant retained and

[00:16:22] See, I do some I do the actual I’m starting to move the prosthodontics side of it. So the Fed, if they are going to have a property in danger. Yeah. Then if they currently don’t have implants, they get sent to me to make the complaints and then they have them for a couple of months and then they review again with Nick. And then Nick uses that and says, right, well, this is the procedures we’re happy with. I need to put the implants here, here, here and here in the right position does it and then retrofits them onto that. So that’s how we started to do it now. And we’re looking at these can do the training with with all of us training on more of the restorative side of it as well to look at doing that. And I do want to pursue it more. I’m looking at applying to sort of empty and then in the next few years, hopefully, and then go down that route. Yeah, yeah. But it’s just finding the finding the time to even be a part time for years and the money as well.

[00:17:18] That’s a big commitment. It’s a big,

[00:17:20] Massive commitment there. And there is definitely the group. I think I want to go down, but I’m still sort of figuring out how do I want to do a Start-Up, 95 percent certain that that’s the way I’m going to go.

[00:17:32] So give us give us some clues. I mean, look, there are some people going to be listening to this thinking this is a lost art. And, you know, it’s like something something they’re not going to be doing much. I mean, I’m thinking of first, my wife works in a city practise with within an insurance company that I’m sure she’s not doing much removeable at all like four years. But there are clearly other people who are doing quite a lot of prosthetics. So for you, what are what are some of the key points that most dentists don’t know and should know or could know easily? Most. Most of us are missing out.

[00:18:10] The main thing is, is on the impressions side of things. I think it’s everyone falls into really bad habits really, really quickly. And it’s not very straight. And don’t try. And the mouth just put the alginate in there and go for it. Rather than adapting your primary, try and using different materials and build in that impression and things like that. That’s a big thing that we’ve tried. You mentioned the lives and stuff we’ve been doing and we’ve been doing a few about above that kind of thing. I think it’s something that people just don’t you get taught it, but then it’s just so easy to fall into those bad habits when you come when you come out and go into a mixed practise practise and you’ve got 50 minutes to do a set of primary impressions. And it’s, you know, go, go, go and get it sorted. But, yeah, I think that’s that’s part of it. But you say like it’s a diet, but there’s still aspects of it, even if you’re not doing it that are important. So if you’re doing important work and you’re doing a full Arche, it’s still the basics of how to make a complete Danja OBD aesthetics or if you’re doing cosmetic stuff as well, it’s still small design is still using those principles. So even if you’re not going to touch the Dental special tree over again, the principles of it are still really, really valuable. Even if you’re doing Edmondo, looking at your ratios and things like that, it’s important to appreciate that.

[00:19:30] You’re right. I mean, back back in my day, the only thing we would have been taught about small design, would it be in prosthetics? But what about when you qualified? Was there anything else?

[00:19:42] No, it’s I think it

[00:19:43] Was Dental course. Does it move over?

[00:19:45] It doesn’t change. It doesn’t have I I was just I met a couple of friends the other night and we were chatting about how we’re all doing these tabletop onlies and things and bondies stuff that we weren’t we weren’t all from conventional teaching in fourth year, fixed prosthodontics or whatever it was. As you do that, you go and do these courses or you read these biomimetic articles or whatever. And if again, we’re being told this thing, I only graduated four years ago from, you know, this great place in London. Why are we is it hasn’t it hasn’t moved that much. And we didn’t I think it’s one of those things that you do a day of Implanon, a day on impulse. You do maybe a day or one lecture on this is what this is or it’s you know, someone comes in and does an after after uni thing for the Dental society on small design or something like that. But it’s still not part of it. I think that’s not what the universities are for making Vitrano, although they’re not making private dentists or anything like that. But it’s still is principles of that. And you’ve still got to break it down into those basic building blocks and then you can use it. And it’s sort of that’s that’s why I think with the prosthodontics as well, there’s not is seen as a bit of a dark art, but there are still there it is. But it’s still sort of there are the basic principles. And then you just extrapolate on those and you can work out more difficult things.

[00:21:14] Yeah, I know. I know you do this thing, the Impression Club. Right. But is there digital? Can you take scans of potential disasters or not? So I don’t know.

[00:21:24] So some people think, yeah, so I’ve done I did a case where we used a digital file to make a set of special trays simply because we were it was a case that was being planned for some implants and naked, already done the work up and all this. And he’s got a digital wax up and things like that. And then he the patient had some medical issues and couldn’t go through with it at the time, but needed some teeth. So so as I I’ve got space tomorrow and my lab on Dental place printed off these prints off the files and made me a tray. And I picked it up that evening and we did the impressions the next day. But it’s still got its I don’t think the potential of

[00:22:04] It’s the second we wouldn’t be able to do the.

[00:22:07] Yeah, it’s because I’m not going to get aggressive. Yeah. You don’t, you don’t know what the. Yeah. You don’t want the tissues are but also actually getting back to the main things that you want. Yeah. You can’t, you can’t get a functional sulcus, you can’t really get right back and get the tuberose these really nice or retracting the cheeks out of the way because the scan doesn’t do that. So this tray that I had was really, really short. Actually spend longer adapting it with silicone or whatever, that I may as well just toss a stock three hours and probably even got the same impression, but twice as fast. So I think for certain things, like maybe making a little bounded saddle chrome denture, but the digital, you might be added to it, but still always be taking a conventional secondary because it’s just I don’t think it’s there yet.

[00:22:54] And as far as materials, what are your favourite materials for full and for partial

[00:23:01] Silicon, silicon, for anything that’s adventurous and the primary impression and then alginate on top and then for the is for Parshall’s is alginate and retentionist is silicon putty like body image and body depending on the size of the underlying tissue so that you’ve got more balance. If the pressure Seper Lightbody where you’ve got loose tissue and medium body, where you’ve got firmer tissue, and Putsy, where you’ve got really, really strong tissue so that across the board you’ve got a nice, nice balance with silicon silicon all the way for the attention of the don’t touch, don’t touch the constitutional level.

[00:23:40] The issue is that just you or is that is that the way it’s a.m..

[00:23:46] I had a while ago, actually, since I sent the case to two and 200 to that changed of third. And it was like, what are you doing is greenstick? And Zawia, like I taught you for years. And I was I’m just trying this. I’m just trying this. The silicon stuff based out of the guy in Japan, Dr. Arby. So that’s sort of based on reading around what he’s doing there. Yeah, they’ve all got that place and certain things. It’s that I just prefer the handling of the silicon’s and it just works reliably for me. I know that it works well as I try and do something else and then worry that I’m not going to get the result that I want.

[00:24:23] And then as far as registration, are you doing something different to what we were all talked

[00:24:29] About in this RIM’s nothing too fancy. Haven’t really mentioned the Gothic arch tracing it. It’s I need I need to probably just to see if it’s going to make I haven’t felt the need to, but I probably haven’t had enough cases where I probably needed to to get it done. So I had my my one to one on the line with Ellenburg. And so that was good. Yeah. So I know I need to do it now for this one.

[00:24:55] The really the really beautiful thing about the work that you’re putting in is for me, OK, you’ve got you’ve got the, the small rotations and the teeth and so on, but the gingiva the thing. So I guess that’s the technician. Right. Are you, have you got input in that. Well, how does that work? I mean, how do you make something so life. I even noticed you had the attached bit was darker than the which is when you think about it. Why haven’t we always done that? But how does that work? Do you have to sell that to the patient that it’s going to be? Or do you discuss it with the patient? How does that work?

[00:25:29] Yes, and even even the rotations and things, you know, we sort of start from the get go and even that the consultation. I’ve obviously got a bunch of photos of different cases now. And I sort of say, you know, you can have this, you can have this. I was initially doing like a two tiered sort of system. But generally now where with where I’m at now, I’m just I’m just doing the fancy ones, the sort of this is what we do. And if you want if you don’t want to have that, you can have the guns more simple if you want to. But it’s all it’s all the same sort of thing. But yeah. You sure. In a few cases and see what they like. Some people don’t don’t want a really fancy gun work and it’s fine. Or we get them to bring in pictures and stuff for the angles of the teeth and things like that. So that’s all sort of the patient feeds that in that the gun work is all with photos. So we’ve got actually a ginger shade died. So my my technician, Ricardo, he works exclusively with either cloud product. So I’ve got an overclassified guy out of all these different shades of paint and he’s got some more purples and yellowy tins and things like that. So it’s about six six thirteen different colours and exactly the same as you would be taking shade guys photos for teeth, the lips and take the three photos of the three different tabs. So then he can sort of see the idea of what the gums look like anyway. And then he’s got all the different colours and he actually processes that is normal and then he’s adding those on. That’s actually a composite of different coloured composites that he’s actually adding over the top and then glazes the whole thing. And this is actually additional layers that he’s adding onto it rather than coming out of the flask in one piece like that.

[00:27:11] And what’s what’s been the reaction of of young dentists to, you know, putting these beautiful pictures on Instagram? And it’s the last place I mean, you know, these platforms sort of, you know, developed in the. But if three years ago you told me the going to be a guy who’s going to be taking pictures of complete dentures and making them. Exciting and sexy on black with with reflections, I believe that was supposedly people’s reaction. I mean I mean, you must have inspired a bunch of people.

[00:27:44] I I’d like to think I think I get a lot of a lot of really nice feedback. I do see a few people doing a few pictures and it’s quite, quite similar. It’s cool. It’s no one’s no one’s original. Someone was doing the same kind of things as well that I haven’t seen nothing. And it’s all about the photos of soldiers. What Menasche pictures on his phone. When did that cause? Two years ago. And I thought, well, I’m going to do it for what I want to do that I had really, really nice feedback. And I think more people, just obviously people were doing Dental cases. But I’m seeing more maybe I’m just following more people, but I’m definitely seeing more people who are doing on the page sort of composite work and actually posting the odd Dental case, which is almost that people weren’t thinking, well, let’s not share the Dental cases, but yeah. Yeah, definitely. And more more of it coming up. Which is which is cool. Yeah.

[00:28:37] I mean, the thing is, we were all trained in that much more than we were trained in composites. So it kind of it kind of takes you back to that whole whole bit of Dental story. But at the same time, it’s interesting, you know, that that is still the case. I really didn’t think that thought. I thought by now the Dental course would be much more sort of digital planning, none of that. Right. Scanning or scanning both

[00:29:04] Of your calls. So you knew it existed. You knew it existed. But we didn’t we didn’t have a scanner on the postgrads to the postcard. Obviously, they have scanners and things like that because they have to do all that side of it, that we didn’t have anything outside that that maybe it’s changed in the last four or five years, that it’s still not not a

[00:29:26] True even even in the last four or five years, a lot’s changed in scanning in terms of the penetration market penetration of it. Yeah. What else do you get up to, man outside of work? What’s your biggest interest?

[00:29:41] Well, I was doing a bit of coaching still for the swimming stuff that the covid sort of killed that off. And I don’t do normal photography, not adventures that again, covid sort of curtailed that a bit because it was more when I would travel. I’d try and go away sort of two or three times a year and do photography there. Obviously, living and living in London, you can still go and do some some nice photography. So I spend spend most of my time doing doing that and just sports in general. Watch a bit of a bit of cricket. Maybe I might get roped into a Sunday game next week. I think the shorts some players, I’m going to go and turn the arm over, but yeah, photos, not adventures is usually what I’m doing. And I found that I’m just doing more and more of the work, work, photography, so I need to bring it back the other way, I think.

[00:30:26] So were you a photographer before you were Dental photographer?

[00:30:32] Yeah. So I’ve been doing sort of photography as a sort of serious hobby for about five years. Mostly I like stuff about being in London at uni and going around it then travels and saw landscape photography and cityscape photography and things like that. So I knew I knew my way around a camera before I went on. Yeah, that’s one of these goals and stuff. Yeah. So it’s then that that’s the beauty of our course is that it’s still had so much, so much to offer because you have the full range of people on that course and still somebody within 100 which we which to hold on sort of thing that you can catch up on. But the BBC, that is the whole black backdrop things of that is so simple to do once you know how to do it. But it just until you know how to do it is it’s crazy, but says I still enjoy it. And that’s why I think partly I do all these do all these Instagram photos, because it’s just it makes me enjoy the work that I’m doing. And I enjoy the sight of him making a nice picture, whether it’s over a mountain range somewhere or of an impression, I just enjoy the process of actually producing it, producing an image.

[00:31:48] And when you when you went on your travels, what were the most beautiful places that you saw and photographed?

[00:31:55] We did Machu Picchu a couple of years ago, and we did all the mountains and lakes and the salt flats in Bolivia and the same trip, which is pretty awesome. And just all of all of Vietnam, just the most beautiful place that we tried to get around a fair bit in the last few years that we did in the last 18 months, not doing anything. So, yes, it means that work since taking over, isn’t it? That has been the same for you. Just suddenly realised that I’ve been back for 12 months straight and not really taking a break. I think it’s quite

[00:32:27] Interesting at the moment. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, it’s not the same for me because I’m not clinical. Right. But but my wife is so. So I get the I get the feedback and I mean, it’s weird that it’s now kind of normal, right. That you what you’re having to do in the clinic and everyone’s just accepted that it is what it is. And I don’t know, I find she’s much more tired now when she’s come back from a day of work than than she used to be before all the precautions and at the PPE and all that. But at the same time, you know, she’s been really lucky to have almost a single dentist who’s not happy. Obviously, there’s the associate story. Some associates have been treated badly and there’s the technician story. Quite a lot of technicians. The NHS was definitely in issues. You’ve got a lot of technicians follow you, right?

[00:33:22] Yeah. Yeah. I’d say probably 30, 40 percent of them are actually technicians,

[00:33:27] Whether because of the just because of the work.

[00:33:31] I think some people think I’m a technician as well. Generally, I think I think they do think I’m a technician. Yeah. I think they just enjoy seeing their work or what they do highlighted in the way that it isn’t normally highlighted, I guess. And and my guys, Ricardo, is very, very, very good at what he does. So it’s it’s almost that. And because all my stuff is exclusive, he has you know, it’s almost it’s it’s a fanpage for him almost. So the technicians will want to follow that. Yes. But I think as well, they like a lot of the feedback we get from the technicians is how I talk about what I do and how I go about it and the relationship I have with Ricardo. And I think they don’t always feel that they get that level of communication or whatever it is back. So I think they quite that’s a lot of the feedback I get as well, is that it’s a bit different maybe than what they get from from their clinicians

[00:34:30] When you look back at your your short career. But for your your sort of back story and how it’s all panned out, there’s an element of discipline from the sports. There’s an element of teaching from the sports. Yeah. Do you think that’s the way you’re going to go? You’re going to be a teacher? I feel like, you know, it’s one of those things anyone could or could not be a teacher, but some people really thrive in it.

[00:34:59] Yeah, I just I definitely enjoy I think I’d love to go back to the guys and do a Friday afternoon or something, and I definitely would want to go and do some decent teaching a bit down the line. And yeah, I enjoy the sort of that’s where the live sessions started out, was partly saying, well, let’s go through a few cases. Men, men retire to go through a few cases, partly to stop or to give me something to quickly send when I received the same didn’t like all the time. But how to do something like his his a thirty minute video and then it just sort of shifted a little bit because I had good feedback and people saying Do you want to do one. But that was partly the intention of it as well, was to do a bit of sort of almost indirect teaching that just sort of share the passion, share the knowledge as I guess. But no, definitely, definitely enjoy the teaching side of it is and still be quite happy to retire as a swimming coach at some point as well. Really? Yeah. That love still go back to that, although in twenty five years or something go back and do that. He’s ever coached by us. He was going round with a with a walking stick. I think he coached until the day that they all over the great fun,

[00:36:11] The essence of it man. I mean the few swimming lessons I’ve had. I was surprised, amazed at the the difference. Keeping your fingers together, you know what I mean? Like the small changes you can make in Sydney and the huge difference that makes. What’s the essence of it? Could you tell? Could you tell? Someone’s going to be amazing when you first start teaching them. Can you turn them into something amazing? How important is. And how important is physiology

[00:36:39] Is that you can definitely you can definitely see talent, you can do anything. This is the same thing that you said about like dentists is all that you’ve seen on the courses and things that you can see the talent, but you’ve got a bunch of sort of junior some, as you can see, which ones are and whether it’s a physical talent. You know, they’re naturally a foot and a half taller than everyone else or hyper mobile, hyper flexible. That was me. I got my knees and got me shoulders. The 30 percent more mobile than they should be helpful. Yeah, you get extra range of movement and things like that. And and so you get you get that side that you can see. It’s still hard work. I still I wasn’t the most talented athlete. I worked really hard. I worked smart. I was talented, more talented than than some, but definitely. And that’s why I never got that that extra I got the top the top 20 or whatever it was, you know, is never going to make the make the team that I had friends and did junior level far more far more talented people.

[00:37:43] How does that how does that feel when you’ve been doing that amount of training and then you realise you’re not going to make it? And I mean, it must be soul destroying in a way, too, right?

[00:37:53] I mean, I, I never I never thought I would, you know, it was never I loved the sport. I loved doing it. I was really happy to get to get to the championships, get to the trial. Then that was that was enough. That was basically I got to that as some of that event. I said, yeah, I’ll do I’m quite happy here because I could carry on for the next two years at uni and not and not get any better and not make that final two percent to do it. And that’s what you do when you say you’re doing something like the fine margins as it was, is it sounds bonkers when I said it’s sort of two percent, three percent. And that’s that’s what it is. You know, if I was ninety eight. Ninety seven percent of the way, that’s all, isn’t it, then it was never I just love the sport and love doing it and it’s that personal thing again. If you can’t use racing against yourself, if you don’t know you’re up against other people, but you can sort of always push yourself internally. And that was the day I stopped when I knew that I’d done everything I could. I’ve given it a given everything. And that’s fine, because I think it’d be worth it if I felt like I’d, you know, not push myself as hard or done something.

[00:39:03] You did your best and you feel good that.

[00:39:04] Yeah, because I knew that I’d reached the absolute limit I could I could reach, which is higher than I ever expected. So, yeah, I know. I’ve no sort of regrets with that.

[00:39:14] At your stage in the game, are you thinking of. You know, I’m not I’m not saying you’re going to open a practise tomorrow, but are you thinking of opening a practise one day? And what do you what do you think

[00:39:25] From that of the. I don’t know. I don’t know. I think initially a while ago I thought about it. And I think it’s more that you think I would be really cool except accepted practise in like high. But for mates that we just have a laugh and and we’ll all do our little things that we enjoy doing. But I think it’d be a long way away. It’d be something would be quite enjoyable. But obviously the the other side of it, there’s a lot of the business side and the obviously the stresses that will go with that and highlights it massively with, you know, with Kobe must be such a tough time for the principles, especially that Woodbridge we made a big expansion and stuff and put two, three, three new surgeries in the year before and things like that. And there must have been very tough on on the bosses and stress that people are seeing all around the country that people are in those kind of concerns. It’s not quite quite like turning up and do my thing and then going to do something else.

[00:40:19] Yeah, it’s a nice time. I remember very well the bit between qualifying and doing something serious, like starting a business is a beautiful thing. And as much as it’s it’s impressive when people qualified, open and practise quickly missing out on that piece, it’s almost it’s almost like that bit. I don’t know, you’re going out with a girl, but you’re not married to her sort of feeling. Well, it’s a lovely time that some people miss out on you. I found in my day, in my time that that was a real defining time for me where you’re still so energetic about your new career and and you’d be amazed that the moves you’re making now, you will end up being really amazing, like building blocks of the final things you become. But when I say starting practise, do you share with me that when I was at your stage, I keep on thinking, wow, you know, I can do so much better than this. By the way, I’m not saying Knicks practise, and that’s a great practise. Right. But as as as a young as a young guy, you know, you have ideas this share some ideas with us.

[00:41:28] But I think I always I always joke with it because because. Because I’m living in. I’m living in and I’m travelling out. All that, you know, they always mention and in sort of huddles means like, oh yeah, let’s hope ambitions at some point to open a second practise and like, you know, Richman’s quite nice and

[00:41:49] I could help you in that one, maybe

[00:41:52] As I always have a bit of a joke with them about that. But at this stage I’m at the moment, I would never dream of running a place. I just think, yeah, I just

[00:42:04] I think I’d be quite good at it, though, dude, because a lot of a lot of things about the teaching thing is about communicating and and in the end, running a practise is all about that and communicating your vision. Yeah. To to others.

[00:42:19] Yeah, I think it would be the kind of thing I’d enjoy doing, but I feel like this at this stage now, you know, it’s I like if I’ve got anything, I can go to any of the other senior guys and get some advice on something I’ll feel if I was the boss, I need to be giving all those answers that I just don’t feel that I have. You know, we’re still while we’re all we’re all learning, always Dental practises and that we’re all still learning in that path. But and I think as well, I’ve got a lot of sort of loyalty to Nick and Sarah because of the way that I’ve ended up there. It’s very much sort of they took a took a chance on me and I’m more than I’m over the moon to be working in a place like that full time at the stage of my career that I am.

[00:43:02] Is that your first first private job? Did did.

[00:43:05] Yeah. Yeah. So I started I started the two months after finishing up on Saturdays because I met Sarah during F day whilst on a course in Birmingham. I won tickets for it. It was in Birmingham. I was in how. We’ve got to take two tickets. You can apply for them as the deanery and I was I’ll go home for the weekend afterwards. I’ll be all right. I won them and then end up chatting to this lady and did. And then a year later I started and some subsidies. And then a year later I started shadowing Nick on a Wednesday morning. And then it just sort of when my mother so it just all sort of fell into place that way. And I just yeah, I’m so happy to be where I am. I don’t think the change

[00:43:51] Of pace from NHS to private. Tell me about how that felt the first day, because that’s a great day, scary day to day lives.

[00:44:00] I mean, the actually doing it switching over full time was that was the bigger change rather than when I started just doing some Sacerdote is sort of like because you try and get in the mode of even when you’re doing your and it just sat there trying to book in more of these sort of private work and things like that. So when I first was just doing the alternating exercise, it didn’t feel like that that big a step when it was suddenly all the time just in private, that definitely felt like a big a big change because it was, um, sort of coming off the the rush of doing like thirty patients and then. Yeah. Going the next day of doing sort of a Sunday. I’m always seeing a 10, 12 patients or whatever it is. And that was where it felt really different. But it’s enjoyable as well because I said you can do the work you want to do. That’s the beauty of what I said is and if I want to do an end, I’ll do it. If not, then the doctors can do it. That’s the the beauty of it. You can just focus on taking time and doing the things that you like

[00:45:05] As far as your reputation builds and your reputation is building quite beautifully in the profession for someone at your stage. But as your reputation builds in the community for being the denture guy. So it’s funny that one thing you’ll find maybe you’ve already found is you’ll get people coming to you with more psychological problem than a clinical patient. Maybe tell me if this has happened to you already where you feel like based on all the parameters that you you’re in control of, everything looks pretty good. You’re getting you’re getting suction everywhere and everything’s really stable. Everything’s great, looks good. And yet the patient’s unhappy. And what tends to happen is it’s the better you get, the more you attract that crowd of people who never you know, the is not in the mouth. It’s it’s it’s different. Have you come across it? It’s you definitely.

[00:46:05] Will I look forward to this? I’m not I can’t I wouldn’t have had anything, anything like that. Yeah. But I think the the psychology of it is for any patient is massive. For any patient. The psychology is really, really important. But it’s all about trying to gauge if you’re going through the process of making a set of Dental five appointments or whatever it is you end up doing. It’s all about sort of drip feeding your thoughts throughout it. So it’s it’s very nice. Yeah. People would say it’s if you tell them at the end it’s a mistake, if you tell them at the start it’s ten seconds or whatever. You know, if you say after the fact then you’re making excuses. So you’ve got to try and break down and work out. But it’s just sometimes with those kind of patients say that it’s a classic like five or the other way. And it’s like the classic one that turns up with six, six punches in a bag. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes actually I think just sit there and just have a chat and work out rather than doing the same thing for the seventh time and just sort of um because you do have it anyway. You sort of, you say, oh it’s just the patient. I just a bit so let’s just get on with it and get them out of the chair.

[00:47:16] And I don’t mean to be dismissive of. Because a lot of Dental patients haven’t been served very well at all. Yeah, and and so I’m not saying that at all, but having hung with neck, my neck doing includes doing you know, he was a very high end dentures, but very high end anything. If you talk to the to the top guys, they’ll tell you this. When you build a reputation, that’s what happens. You tend to attract that patient sometimes. I remember, you know, I told you I had a mentor who was into process. And he said when a patient used to say they’re too tight, you should get angry about that. That used to really get to who he would. He would turn around and he’d say, no problem, I’m going to put them on the Dental stretcher and then we’d walk out together and would have an espresso. We’ve come back and it’s the end of the great, you know,

[00:48:15] The bentgrass technique, putting it just putting it on the side behind and doing something and making it sound like,

[00:48:21] You know about that.

[00:48:24] Is that running the running the straight handpiece behind and just sort of just pretending it is tapping on something else like that, you know, sitting up. The psychology is massive. The psychology is massive.

[00:48:35] Yeah. Are you also involved with the TMJ sort of issues or

[00:48:41] Do the odd. I do the odd splinter, the odd little bit that nothing nothing that much. It’s certainly something I want to look into more

[00:48:48] As an element of crossover,

[00:48:51] Where you can look at it from those occlusal areas and you know, and working into it like that. I think that’s that’s probably the next course. But it is jazzes. Yeah, of course. And then down the road for me and reading so much by that, that that’s that’s the kind of thing there is so many people have, I assume. And it’s something that’s so under so under undertreated. Yeah. I’ve had a couple of ones wrote me these little little chest side sort of kig to sort of see if it works. I’ve done a few of those and I’ve worked really nicely now and I found that really interesting. I thought, wow, this works and there’s got to be more, more to this than I’ll just fall down that rabbit hole as well.

[00:49:35] So and I saw something on your Instagram that was like a windowed Sackets special tray was that

[00:49:45] The fibrous, red, flabby ridges, so that we’ve got the lower, lower teeth usually going up against an upper comp.. Yeah. Turns the insides of a pillar and all that kind of area more fibrous and so on. Yeah. So if you do a uniform impression, you’re going to compress that to make one area more than the other. And then when you put the acrylic in, it’s going to just squeeze into that and then it slips down at the back. You lose the sale and falls out. So you do your window impression, do exactly the same and complete that you’ve you’ve asked for a hole in the tray over the area. So then the material flows through the press they right in and then take it out. You cut out the window, press it back in again, and then just lightly syringe the light body over the top. So then it’s only the weight of the silicon’s pressing there. And then the technician relieves a little bit foil so that actually when they’re fully loading it in, it doesn’t actually touch. It’s almost like the the fibrous issues hanging inside. So then there is uniform support. It doesn’t go anywhere.

[00:50:50] You’ve got you’ve got you’ve got compression everywhere else, but not there.

[00:50:54] Yeah, absolutely. So then when when it is loaded, everything else is compressed and that there is still not being contacted at all

[00:51:01] And then you don’t. Is that is that a similar story for those Tauri.

[00:51:05] Three, if you want to get away from those and then release them? Because they tend to be very painful because they’re so the Geneva so thin over those edges, relieve those and sometimes in the impressionable in the trail, get them to put a little relieving area not necessary. Do it like a window, but just allow the material to flow out a little bit so there’s not as much there.

[00:51:28] It’s amazing coming back to

[00:51:32] Rewind the clock back. Yeah, yeah,

[00:51:33] Yeah it is for me. Yes it is. But it is, it’s, it’s funny man. I think it holds a special place for us all. You know, your education to doesn’t it takes you back to the how was it coming from a small town like Worcester. Worcester was three was the worst I know was the worst. To the big city.

[00:52:02] Yeah, is it I mean, it was it’s everything’s different when you go to it anyway. I mean, I’ve got family in London as well, so we would we would do pretty well. More West at my aunt’s actually up the road in Fulham as well. So I know the side a bit more. But it was it was exciting. It’s always different, isn’t it? I think going to as I said, the big cities is a bit of a change. But I’ve stuck around for another eight years, so there must have been. What do you

[00:52:29] Think’s going to happen? You think you’re going to end up going back eventually to Worcester?

[00:52:34] Yeah, and I don’t think I was working for a little bit in Worcester early last year before I had to said she was able to go in full time and ready, which is the things that it was quite nice was then I was doing even more travelling and I was bouncing, bouncing sort of up and down and staying with family and things like that. So it was quite nice because I tend to I’m one of those people I to go home for like six months at a time. So it’s quite nice to go back, go back to of every week. But I enjoy it, I enjoy it down here. I think I would mind drifting a little bit further out, maybe a little bit less of a commute. But at the moment. Yeah, but it’s a good it’s good that today, as

[00:53:15] You know, I’m kind of new. I’m kind of new in Fulham. I’m kind of new for them. So I’m just finding my way, really. I still I still feel much more at home in North London. My office is there and I was brought up, brought up there. So every time I go back that way, I’m like, this is home. But it is nice. Yeah. I mean, the Champions League was what they call that they.

[00:53:39] Did you hear all that last night. It was pretty is pretty rowdy. Yeah. We were walking back after the game and it was obviously a lot closer to the stadium than you are, but it was round last night.

[00:53:51] I could hear it from here. There you must have heard it all.

[00:53:53] Yeah. Yeah, it was it was great. We had loads of sirens as well, which is.

[00:53:57] Yeah. Yeah I saw that. I saw that. It reminded me of my days in A&E

[00:54:03] And the flashbacks.

[00:54:06] Yeah. Yeah. Because I did this house job that was half restorative half surgery. And I remember in Cardiff. Yeah. When it was a lovely day during the day you have this bittersweet feeling of tonight. It’s going to be tough. Yeah, it’s

[00:54:22] Going to be a go.

[00:54:24] Yeah. And when it was a rugby game would depend on who was playing. But if it was Wales, England, there was going to be trouble that night. And it’s funny because during the day it was a wonderful day and the night would be, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever done any like man, is it a proper, tough, tough evening, you know, stitching up faces and, you know, undoing the good work of the bouncers. Of course.

[00:54:58] I mean, I haven’t done that side of it. I mean, my my my girlfriend. I’m I’m a flatmate here. They’re both they both on their visas and backpacks and things like that. Yeah. So I’ve heard all the stories. Not for me, not for that.

[00:55:12] So you think that you your girlfriend, you said was doing some teaching in F.T. said. Right.

[00:55:19] Yeah. Teaching is looking do some also. So doing all that side of it.

[00:55:25] Did you guys meet in the Dental school.

[00:55:28] Third year. They’re paired up partners.

[00:55:33] We had the I met my wife in Dental school to actually put the thing I found with you know, some people think having having a person, the partner who’s in the profession is difficult because, you know, you’re constantly talking about that. And I liked it. I liked it a lot. You know, I like it a lot in so much as, you know, you can you can you can talk to someone about it.

[00:55:56] Yeah, they can. And you can share that passion with it as well. It’s sometimes there are times the other other you want to think about it for that. But I think it works, it works well to sort of share that. And they talked about it if you want to. I think it would be tough to have a bad day or something. And not everyone has a profession that is everyone’s bad days in every profession is different as well. So definitely helpful. And she’s also probably the reason why we move not too far, because she’s a north west London Iranian as well. So she really took off is to get it down to Fulham.

[00:56:30] So it’s like, well, all right, buddy. Well, perhaps not here to ask his final questions.

[00:56:41] I was going to avoid them.

[00:56:43] Okay. You are a bit too young. You’re too young. You are a bit too young for it. But I didn’t ask you about your biggest clinical mistakes. Are these people going to have to ask you the. It’s your last day on the planet and you’ve got your loved ones around you. One of the three pieces of advice you can leave them with.

[00:57:05] Things I’ve been thinking about this all day, and I still don’t know

[00:57:09] If it’s your final is your final swimming lesson,

[00:57:16] I think I think based on sort of my sort of work pathway so far, I think the first thing. But I take opportunities and take your chances and sort of trust. Trust. Well, it is this is a swimming thing, I would say, without trust the process. And I believe that you’ve got the right idea of what you’re doing and you’re going to do it and you’re doing the right thing and just take chances, take the opportunities that arise because. Yeah, because chances are it’ll work out so. And if it if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. But I think just trust that, you know what you’re doing, you know where you want to go, and that this is going to be the right thing for it. And I guess it’s sort of the same kind of thing, but especially if you’re in this situation that you last. I think I just do things because the things I experience things or whatever it is, because what you I think you’ll regret things. You don’t do so much more than things that you do that take yeah. Take say yes to things. Go and travel and learn, learn new things and learn to meet different people and do things like that. And then I’ll steal it. Paraphrase a Savage Garden song and don’t don’t let the sun set on an argument then get a bit angry because life’s too short. I just get on it and get it done. Well that day.

[00:58:33] That is good advice. Although Prav discussions are three parts, I wonder if you wonder whether his next question is kind of it’s kind of similar, but it’s a legacy question. Rupert Monkhouse was. How would you like to be remembered

[00:58:54] As the guy that my Dental is set to get in there? I think I’d want to be remembered. I’d like to think I’m that person that you could call in data. Dependable. Yeah. Yeah. That if you needed them, that would be. That would be a. And also, my dentist actually

[00:59:17] Gets security as final question, I’ve got a feeling I know where it will be. Got 30 days. Yeah. To do whatever you want to do.

[00:59:30] Hojjati. A lot of them said trouble, yeah, that is the thing is, I mean, it’s difficult for me because my mom hates travelling. She won’t fly. She likes flying. So I wouldn’t get to spend over 30 days away. I’d have to spend some time. Some time here

[00:59:46] Would be put on a train

[00:59:48] Together with me on the other side,

[00:59:51] Hyperloop. By the time it comes to your last 30 days, there will be other relatives. Maybe. Let’s imagine your mom can come a long way.

[01:00:00] But we’ve we’ve been having this thing. We’re trying we’re trying to do the the wonders of the world before we turn 30. And we’re doing all right. I was three. I was three down.

[01:00:08] But what are the wonders of the world?

[01:00:12] Great Wall of China. Oh, Machu Picchu, Colosseum. I see you on one side. And that’s the end in Christ the Redeemer. Yeah, Christ the Redeemer. In Brazil, we forget mortar fire. That was the plan. So I think that they’re pretty cool. Thirty days to get around the world and just go and say, just go and see the awesome things. Because if he is going to China and you go on the Great Wall and you say the pretty clever and some amazing stuff happens and yeah, go there, go and take off the Seven Wonders, do it and one dig around the world. And they’re dragging them kicking and screaming when their guys.

[01:00:54] It’s been lovely having you

[01:00:55] Really enjoyed it. Thanks. Thanks for having me on.

[01:01:00] This is Dental Leaders the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders multistorey.

[01:01:10] Your house, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki. Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because

[01:01:28] I’m assuming you’ve got some value out of it if you did get some value out of it. Think about subscribing and if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it, too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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