[00:00:00] When we’re building a website, a business conversation revolves around if somebody calls, you practise and it goes to voicemail. Tell me what happens. Yeah, they get an automated message. Have you got a human phone answering service on the other end? Who takes a message when someone fills out a contact form? Is there an automated follow Payman response? Is there a text message that comes off the back of that? Is there a guaranteed response time? What is that response time? Is there enough that hours response time service, you know? And so we waxed lyrical and we go back and forth just doing a bare brainstorming in terms of what happens next. And that really does guide the user experience.

[00:00:46] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging Leaders Dental Street. Your heist’s Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki

[00:01:03] On this episode. We want to talk about digital marketing websites, all of that. I mean, the reason we’re doing it is because I’ve just engaged perhaps company for enlightens the website. And the process has been an eye opener for me. But really, Prav, I wanted to sort of take it round to, you know, not not about sort of our process so much, but more about what happens with dentists when they come to you. It must be a similar process that you’re following. I mean, the types of dentists your customers tend to be people who are pretty well versed already in digital and they kind of want to take it to the next level. What are the things people saying to you when they arrive and say, look, I want a website? Why? Why are they changing their website?

[00:01:49] So let’s let’s just take this back to its grass roots. Right. Is the you know, if somebody is coming to us and saying, I want a website and it’s a whole whole host of reasons, right from I’ve got this, I want something better. It could be I haven’t got anything. And I’ve been thinking about, you know, one of our slides, Hassan Hassan McGeary. Right. The guy should the guy should have had a website a long time ago. Right. He’s in the public eye. He teaches, etc., etc.. And, you know, my conversation with him was very much along the lines of, well, he said he’s been looking for the right person. And when he launches his website, because everyone’s been saying to him, where the hell is your website? Why haven’t you got one? Why haven’t you launched one yet? He doesn’t have a website. No, no.

[00:02:37] How does he sell tickets?

[00:02:39] There’s a course bad website that’s been done somewhere else. And even that is not true reflection of the. Let’s not go there. Yeah, yeah. He hasn’t got a website. Right. So the conversation he had with me was Jean-Noel Prav is a perfectionist, paralysed by perfection, this guy. Right. So he said, I think I’ve he’s found us right. And he’s been through all the usual suspects. Right. In in and outside of our industry. And he’s chosen us. And, you know, we seem to align. And he said when I launched this website. What I want people to think is is not had one before, but, my God, has he arrived yet? And does it speak? Does he speak in the language, in the tone? And does it reflect him personally? And does it reflect him ethically? Does it reflect his work? Does it reflect his TTG methodology to so many things? Right. And and then another client comes to us and says, hey, I want a website because my one needs revamping. OK, I want a website that performs better. This whole thing comes down to and I’ll break it down for dentists. It’s a patient consultation patient comes to you and says, I want a new smile. Right. And it’s your job as a dentist to understand the why. What is it that’s motivating that patient for a new smile? Is it is a functional thing? Is it the fact that they can’t chew into a crusty bread? Is it the fact that they, you know, they haven’t been able to eat a steak, their dentures keep slipping? Is it the fact that they could put their hand with their mouth? Is it the fact that they can’t go on day, socialise, perform at work, whatever? There’s always an underlying why I think a big part of this process, when we talk about websites, what Dental is, what what any client wants, what your team want, Payman is figuring out what the Y is.

[00:04:39] And that comes down to very, very basic sales. OK, so even when we start with this process, there’s a sales process and my understanding of sales is earning the right to make a recommendation. Yeah, and that’s the simple process of sales. Right. So when we talk about, let’s say what you and your team want, we talk about the user experience. We talk about when, you know, the conversation we had on the Zune the other day. You know, we look let’s say we take the above the fold experience on the enlightened website. And the one question I asked is if there was one thing that you would want a dentist to do when they landed here, what would that be? OK. Very, very important question. OK, and then as we scroll down, what’s the next priority thing as we scroll down, what’s the next priority? So take away fancy designs, take away beautiful copy, take away photography, and let’s get down to the, you know, the brass tacks of it all, the grassroots, OK? And walk what you wanted to do functionally, what you wanted to achieve.

[00:05:49] You wanted to book more appointments. Do you want to tell your story? Do you want it to push the message that this is an exclusive club? OK, and so what is it? So the conversation we had pay us what I really want them to do. Is enrolled in my free online training, whitening education, that is the first step I want any dentist to take before moving further down the journey. OK, so it was the Get Me trained piece. Another dentist may say, you know what, I my personal brand, I want to be recognised as the dentists dentist. I want to be recognised as the guy who teaches implant dentistry to a level that involves scientific, peer reviewed backing and literature, but communicates it in a way that’s non jargon because I’m not capable of doing that. So we have a discovery process and, you know, usually over a call, maybe a couple of hours, a couple of sessions, it’s me, my project manager, my senior copywriter, Bob. And we will sit there and we will go through a whole bunch of questions. We will learn about what their goals are, what their objectives are, what’s the voice that they speak in. Yeah. In terms of what is it that their patients want? What is it that your customers want? You know, when we talk about enlightened, we’re not building a website where you start campaigns selling cheap rice.

[00:07:18] A hundred and eighty degrees from there is a premium product. You’re at the top end of the market and you are speaking in that language, OK? And then when I dug deeper into your process and learnt that and know I’ve experienced this myself, you know, I’ve been in your office and there’s been some gel that’s been out there on the side. And I say, what’s happened? And you’ve thrown it in the bin. Right. And I’m like, WCF, you do in there. And you go, well, that gel’s bit out of the fridge. That’s no good to anyone. Right. And it goes straight in the bin. And I’m sitting there thinking, what a waste. And you’re sitting there saying, hey, these are our values, buddy. Yeah. If that’s been out in the fridge for this period of time, it goes in the bin. It’s not going anywhere near my customer. So I’ve experienced the. How do I articulate that on your website so that a dentist understands. But what’s the difference between this experience that you’re delivering and another experience that they may get a, you know, a cheaper price? It’s that. And the same with a dentist when they’re delivering all on four same day teeth treatment or whether they’re delivering porcelain veneers or whatever is we really need to dig into the detail of it. So we go through this discovery process. And this dude,

[00:08:38] Sorry, sorry to interrupt you. What percentage of people who come to, you know, what they’re about and then you must get people who come to you just don’t say I’m a dentist.

[00:08:50] Listen, by the way, I look at it is the vast majority of people who think they know what they’re about. Figure out what they know there about once we’ve had that conversation. Yeah, and and that’s not to do with the fact that we feel that way, that we’ve got all the answers is actually they’ve got the answers. We just need to pull it out of that

[00:09:15] Is what I my feeling about that day was that you’re looking at it from the target perspective. So my target on the let’s say the dentist website is the dentist. So so I say, oh, enlightened, we’ve got our system. We do this. When you keep looking at it from when I’m coming onto this website, how do I feel about it?

[00:09:40] Yes. So what you’ve just said there in my role in this whole thing is to be the chameleon, OK? And so if I’m speaking to a dentist, I want to step into that. I should choose whoever that patient is. And I want to ask them, who am I, how old am I? Where do I live? Where do I hang out? Yeah, and what does my disposable income look like? OK, those sort of things, so I can step into that individual shoes as a chameleon and then start speaking in their voice and see and see if there’s a there’s an alignment. And sometimes we have that conversation and it takes two or three of those attempts to figure out who is the patient or who are those groups of patients. Right. And so when I stepped in the shoes of a dentist for you guys that day, I was stepping in the shoes of a dentist who knows what he’s doing. I was stepping in the shoes of a naive dentist and I was stepping in the shoes of several of my clients, both new and old, experienced and inexperienced with whitening conversations that I have had with them and whitening conversations that you’ve had with them. Right. And then taking all the audience into account. How do we articulate what you want to articulate to them in a language that isn’t Pei’s language, that is your own lexicon, that your team understand, but maybe they don’t. Right. And so in answer to your question, how many people know what they want? There’s a lot of people who think they know what they want. Once we break it down, it’s an education for us and them and think.

[00:11:25] Let’s get to let’s get to tone of voice. Yeah. Because, you know, your process seems to be that its first copy Leaders led first and foremost by what we can to say. Yeah. Is that is so you find that’s the easiest way of doing it or the right way of doing it. But go. Oh, I was going to say, look, we had an in-house copywriter, which we no longer do. And then you’ve got a couple of superstrong copywriters, dude. I mean that tone of voice question short. So surely you did Rona’s website here and and you also did Hassans website.

[00:12:04] You make doing assessment process in the process. Yeah.

[00:12:08] Yeah. But do you find that you I mean, I know. Put your copyrightable to absolute star, but can he chameleon himself into into being Rona’s voice and, you know, young fun, you know, lady and also Hassans voice and be different enough every time. I mean, he’s having to do that week in, week out

[00:12:31] The somebody’s way better than I can possibly imagine. Yeah. And it’s amazing, you know you know, the experience I went through before hiring Bob. OK, yeah. And how many frogs I needed to kiss along the way. And and my look, I can write well OK, I’m an OK writer. And, you know, one of the prerequisites was that somebody who writes for us and us has to be able to write and exceeded my expectations. Right. So Bob has got this ability to be able to have an in-depth conversation with someone and distil it down to what that person wants. Let me just give you a couple of examples. We’ve talked about Rohner and we’ve talked about Hassan. Yeah. So I’m just going to it’s going to bring those two experiences up on my screen. Hassan is a work in progress. Wrona is a a work comp.. OK, so if we look at this and we just start reading the headlines of Rona’s Right. From a boutique practise in the heart of Kensington and Chelsea trailblazing, Dr. Rhona Iskander is shaking up dentistry with a fresh approach to small transformations. Her modern cosmetic style has earned a legion of loyal fans both at her London clinic and online, where her signature hashtag, Chelsie Look, is Instagram’s famous.

[00:14:04] Favore is also seen Rohner attract a who’s who of celebrity clients while becoming the media’s first choice voice on burning Dental issues. Dot, dot, dot. OK, so that’s Rohner tone of voice, a stepped into Roen issues. We spent a lot of time interviewing and we’ve got that out. Let’s flip to Hassan. What’s the science of new possibilities? I couldn’t be a successful cosmetic implant dentist without clinical research and lecturing. It’s all of those things together that motivate me to be a better clinician. Consumate implants ology when dentists want to study the art and science of implant dentistry. Dr Hassan Megaera is the educator of choice. Hassan’s work as a cosmetic implant dentist, researcher and educator has cemented his name amongst Implants College’s leading lights whilst helping to define and advance the field. Dot, dot, dot. OK, you can see there that we have two tones of voice that are 180 degrees apart, and I think I’m confident enough to say without disrespect to Hassan or disrespect to Rohner, that Rona’s patients won’t go to see Hassan and Hassan’s patients won’t go to see Roanne, OK, that they will polarise and attract and detract patients appropriately just through that.

[00:15:38] So, yeah, you know what? Do what we were impressed as a team, what we were impressed with with him, as was how quickly he managed to immerse into what we were saying. So, yeah, not not in this conversation in the previous one and how long it took for me to get my in-house copywriter to immerse in enlighten. You know, it could have probably months. And Bob did it within one Zoome call, immersed himself and got the essence of it. But the other the other thing. That’s one thing. The other thing is there wasn’t a single word that isn’t necessary, you know, like the Naked Chef or whatever there is. There is a single single ingredient in there. That’s Domun is almost a minimalist on words is,

[00:16:26] You know, what he says to me, right. Is when he’s editing my work. Yeah. He takes what I’ve said and applies brevity to it. Yeah. It says it in less words. Yeah. Articulated in a much better way, but still in my voice. Yeah. And I think there’s a lot to be said for trimming things back, shorter sentences and making things punchy.

[00:16:50] Or perhaps. Look, we’ve got the words now, but surely before the words, there’s a skeleton that says, you know, the website is going to be this is going to be the basic scaffolding we’re going to build on about this. That is the word, literally.

[00:17:04] So, I mean, the first thing in the in discovery before we talk sitemap. Right. And what that is, is what was the architecture of the site? And we start with homepage. So what are the key for six elements that you want to communicate once somebody lands on your homepage? What’s the priority of those four, six, eight elements in terms of what’s going to stay above the fold? What’s going to come next? What the key headlines that we’re looking at and what’s the key information that we want to get across? OK, this is a home page skeleton. Then we move on to, well, what in the pages are they? So there may be a team page, there may be an individual profile page, there may be a section on orthodontics or GDP or so or cosmetic braces or missing teeth. And then we go into like single implants, implanted dentures, fixed teeth, immediate loading, etc, etc. and all of that stuff. So we sit down and figure out right at the beginning of this project, what’s our scope. Yeah. Yeah. How many pages. What are those. What the page structure, what are they going to contain. And then we dig into the words. OK, so, so and part and parcel of that process when when I, when I spoke to you about tone of voice and learning prior to that call, will spend a lot of time reading their Facebook and Google reviews. So you would be so surprised at what you learn from the patient’s voice about the dentist. OK. OK. And listening to how their own customers talk about them has a huge impact on our view of things and then helps to shape the questions during that discovery call, which is really, really important. So so, you know, we get to the point where we have the copy ready to go.

[00:18:54] Ok, OK, so so we’ve got a basic sort of architecture of what the site is going to show. We’ve got the copy and the copy breaks down into, you know, hero copy bullets and details, right? Yeah. Then I guess you need what images

[00:19:08] Then it comes down to videos, assets. Right. So what assets? And it depends on the client. I mean, we’re fortunate enough and busy enough now to be able to specify what we want from a client before we agree to proceed. OK, so one of the things and look, this is has been a an evolution in our own business, right? So we want to produce something that we’re proud of. We want to produce something that clients are proud of. So we almost entirely insist on a photo shoot and we inform our client about this before even taking them on, because what we wouldn’t want to do is then say, OK, now let’s go and find some stock photography on Shutterstock or iStock or one of these Stopford and then ends up looking like every other website. Right. So we go through this process of working with a photographer, either one of us or somebody local to them. And we produce curated what’s called a shot list for the website.

[00:20:10] So we the shoot

[00:20:11] Before the shoot. Right. And this is the most valuable part of the photography process. Right. A photographer will just go in there, trigger happy, presses button a thousand times and deliver a load of photographs. What I’ll do is I instruct that photographer on which shots I want, which angle you.

[00:20:30] Are you the creative director

[00:20:32] On this piece? Yeah. Yeah, on this. Prelinger Yeah, absolutely. And what I will say about that is because we’ve done so many shoots, we actually provide the photographer with a visual shot list. So we say, hey, we’ve got this picture here, put my other dentist in here, stick a nurse there, and I want a wide angle with clinical background.

[00:20:55] Ok, yeah. Yeah. And because you’ve used the same photographer a few times, you guys speak each other’s language. Another.

[00:21:01] Yeah, yes. But we, we, we’ve recently worked with I’d say probably three or four photographers we’ve never worked with. And you’re not. The feedback from the photographer has been that was the easiest shoot I’ve ever done. If all of my clients were like you, yeah. It would be a dream because you told us exactly what you wanted. So they went in ready to put their finger on the trigger and shoot exactly what we wanted. And they had a shot to check off to set doneness, doneness. Doneness. Got this.

[00:21:29] Yeah, that’s how we do it with with our shoots too. So. Yeah. OK, so now you’ve got you’ve got some, some pictures of the practise and the dentist and so on. Yeah. Tell me about UX Prav.

[00:21:43] So user experience is, I think, probably one of the most important parts of of of the journey when building or putting together a Web based experience. And, you know, right at the beginning of this conversation, you know, I said to you, well, what did we speak about when we had that call? And it’s above the fold. What is the one thing that you want your customer to do? You want them to click on a button to sign up to your free online whitening education, webinar training? Call it whatever you want. Right. And so sometimes it can be it can be really interesting when having this conversation with dentists and they say, I want a book online, but I want a smile. May or upload your selfie. I want a contact form. I want a phone number. I want a floating bar that says, are you a dentist? Refer a patient, write. And then we go back to basics and we look at their existing website and I say, get me some data. Do you know your book online bookseller that sits on your website? Can you tell me over the last three months how many patients booked online and out of those patients? The bottom line, how many we knew and how many were existing patients? OK, and lead with that day so we can make some user experience decisions on what should appear? Well, yeah, it’s not like every website should have a book online at this or that, because you get to the point where you experience this thing called choice overload. Right. Given too much choice, they get confused and they don’t know what to do.

[00:23:22] Prav, it must be a nightmare with dentists because they’re so busy and they haven’t got people to do this job for them. I mean, how the hell do you get all the assets and all the info and all the data from them that you must have issues? Right.

[00:23:36] In some respects we do. Right. There’s one thing that we discussed before working with the client is we set out very clearly what we expect from them and we tell them what they should expect from us. Right. We ask for the contact details of those individuals are going to facilitate this process. And in some cases, it’s then in the majority of cases, is this receptionist that PM or this TCR, OK, who’s going to handle this piece of the work? So as long as we can delegate responsibility, it’s fine. The other thing that we’re very mindful of is dentists are very time poor and short attention span. On the whole, I’m not going to put them all into one box, but on the whole, that’s what we experience. So how have we designed our process to ensure that is easy to manage? OK, so just go back to the copy. Once we’ve once we’ve written the home page copy, Bob, we’ll ask for 10 minutes of their time, lunch hour, whatever. Right. And he will spend that 10 minutes reading the copy to the dentist. Close your eyes. I’m going to read to you now, OK? Just like you would read a story to a kid, that process in itself accelerates our web development process hugely because if you email that word document to the dentist and then that in your own time, get back to me.

[00:25:00] Yeah, just add two weeks to the project, comfortably insulated in that a couple of emails and a had a chance to read the copy. Have you got round to it. Yeah. Just give me 10 minutes at this time of books and with your PM at this point we read it, we have an instant feedback rather than over six emails. Yeah. Boob job done. Rinse and repeat the same process for the other pieces. Right when we go, when we are moving forward a bit. But when we move over to design. Yeah. What I’m going to present is the MVP, right. The minimal viable product to the dentist. One step outside is your home page. This is what it looks like is the UX. This is what that looks like. This is how it functions. Let’s not talk about the team page. Let’s not talk about your Invisalign page. Your implant pages.

[00:25:54] Are you is the home page your actual home page or is a version of it? It will be a witness. So when you say MVP, though, will it look like it will look correct?

[00:26:09] Correct. It will almost be. It will be a graphical wireframe of the home page,

[00:26:16] But it won’t be working.

[00:26:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That includes photographs and stuff. But it won’t be coded. It will not be coded. Right. So a prototype. But the Boompa in this whole process is that we want to make sure that every single step of this process that the dentist has got the minimum amount of work to do to make a decision, OK, and when we go down that decision making tree, there’s two options. Do you prefer this or this? What do you think about this option or this option? What do you think about this list? The same applies to booking appointments for patients Monday or Tuesday. I’ll take a Tuesday morning or afternoon. I’ll take an afternoon. I’ve got a four o’clock or five o’clock. I’ll take the five o’clock great books and tell the patient to pick their own times. Yeah, see, in 20 minutes, you still haven’t bought the appointment yet. So we need we lead that conversation and we guide our clients along along the right path. But take us back. Four or five years ago, this whole process was a disaster. I you know, web development projects, emails, feedback, emails, feedback, mistakes, all of that. And I’d like to say that, you know, we’ve honed our process and after every single projects that have what’s called a post-mortem, so we sit down as a team and say, OK, so what were the positives? What were the negatives? What could have we done better? How could have our process been improved, et cetera, et cetera? Right. And who needs some more training on this than the other? And then the next one’s better and better and smoother and so on and so forth. Right. It’s about continually improving. So what do you want? So we’re going back to this thing. What do you want that patient to do? OK, now if I find out,

[00:28:05] What do people say? I mean, people say, I want to. I want to. I want the patient to contact me.

[00:28:10] Absolutely. OK, so then we go down the route of, OK, so what’s priority, phone calls or emails, OK?

[00:28:18] Do some people say email?

[00:28:20] You have a lot of people say I’m not losing it because, you know, prior to that, we’ve had a conversation about their reception. Yeah, we’ll have dug in to say, OK, I’m going to ring your practise 10:00 a.m. What are the odds that someone’s going to pick up? In fact, sometimes during those calls, we’re on a Zoome call similar to this. And I’ll pop their practise number into my mobile and I’ll ring the practise. And I say, look, you’re going to experience what your practise are about to deliver to me right now. Right? Just hot seated there and then more often than not goes through to voicemail. OK. And that in itself, you know, it really does open up, you know, a sense of reality for that, for their own dentist practise or whatever. And so we’ve got to think about, if you missed the call, what’s the experience? OK, if you get the contact details, what’s the experience, what happens after and user experience? You’ve got your your question about user experience is the one we’re building a website, a business conversation revolves around. If somebody calls, you practise and it goes to voicemail, tell me what happens if they get an automated message? Have you got a human phone answering service on the other end? Who takes a message when someone fills out a contact form? Is there an automated follow Payman response? Is there a text message that comes off the back of that? Is there a response, a guaranteed response time? What is that response time? Is there enough that hours response time service? And so we waxed lyrical and we go back and forth just doing a bare brainstorming in terms of what happens next. And that really does guide the user.

[00:30:05] It hit me, hit me, hit me with a gold gold standard. If you could have everything you know fully, you know, you’ve got you’ve got all the resources in the world. What’s the gold standard for the form? Phil comes in? What happens next?

[00:30:25] Ok, so the phone still comes in on the phone, so what I want to do is ask for depending on the type of phone, right. And depending on what your goal is. Right. Do you want. Low volume. High quality, do you want high volume, medium quality? You’ve got someone to process that. So once we’ve been through that and let’s assume they just want volume for now and we can talk about other ways of generating lower volume, higher quality. Right. But let’s say they just want high volume. So the minimum date the High want to see is a name and email address. A mobile number and then whatever they’re interested, how can we help? What would you like to change? Something like that? OK, so we get those pieces of information and then the first thing that should happen is a text message goes back to that patient saying, hey, Prav, sorry,

[00:31:26] Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. If the person doesn’t fill out one of those full fields, he can he still send it or

[00:31:34] Know that those would all be required fields.

[00:31:37] But doesn’t that put some people off then or you don’t care.

[00:31:40] Don’t care, because for me, I would say that you

[00:31:43] Want the minimum

[00:31:45] Buddy, that’s that is like the bare bones minimum, a mobile number and an email. Yeah, OK. It’s a barebones if I’m just collecting email, then it’s a lead magnet or something like that. Right. And I’m sending some automation off the back of that and I’ll get the mobile number later. Yeah, but that’s the bare minimum. OK, so, so

[00:32:03] Suddenly it comes in,

[00:32:05] That lead comes in, they get an instant text message. Hey Prav. So they put my first name from the name field. And so if I put Prav Solanki in there, the software will look for Prav space rejects. Take my first name and insert that in the text message. Right. A Prav. Thanks for your Dental implant enquiry. This is joal a kiss Dental. When would be a good time to talk. Questionmark. And that’s fully automated, fully automated now if that patient then texts back. Straight away, straight away. Step one was the most important thing when we talk about enquiries, right, is starting a conversation, right? You have just started a conversation with someone and somebody responded. When you send an email to someone, what is the one action you want them to take? Respond. Yeah, not book an appointment. Just respond. Yeah. When you say hello to someone, what you want them to do, say hello back. OK, that’s all we’re looking to do is start a conversation so that text message conversation starts. OK, is that person somebody who wants to respond on text or have this mini conversation on text call. So, so we go back and forth with one of our team and they may get them booked in.

[00:33:27] In the meantime, we remember the first one was an automated one. The patient responded now. Now the team member gets on her phone or somewhere. So alert and alert and she comes back and says, starts talking, starts talking to us, finding out about them.

[00:33:43] Yeah. So they engage some nice some may not respond. OK, yeah. At the same time, at the same time, an automated email response goes to the patient. Hey Prav, thank you for enquiring about Dental implant’s here at our practise. We love changing patients lives through implant dentistry is Joanne story. She was southbury as a loose Dental aware of the many years and bla bla bla bla bla.

[00:34:14] We really look into it. So, so, so, so, so. So was there a drop down that said I’m interested in dental implants?

[00:34:22] No.

[00:34:22] Bellison So how, how did the automation know it was an implant.

[00:34:27] So two things. Two things. Number one, sentiment analysis. Yeah. And number two, I’ll talk to you about it in second. And number two. Is that phone set in the Dental implant page? Yes, we see it seems so strange. All right. But so if I’m stuck on a Dental implant page and enquiring about dental hygiene. Yeah. So here’s the piece. The if I’m going to order some off the back of an implant page, then if I’m going to hedge my bets on that enquiry’s implant related nine out of 10 times, I’ll be right. Probably nine point five. So that’s how that’s how we know. Yes. So an automated email goes out, tells them about who we are, what we do, what our experience is. And by the way, here’s some social proof, OK? Case study, video, embedded, Google Review, whatever, just to share some social proof, OK? It also speaks to the fact that a member of our team will be with you shortly. To specifically answer your question, what’s really important is automation is fantastic. OK, it’s brilliant. OK, but you cannot replace the human element. OK, so the human then comes in at a later date, a later time, and then speaks to the nature of what that patient’s issue is. It might be a phobia. It may be something to do with a loose denture, whatever. They may have a price query, whatever that is. And, you know, we could do a whole episode on Just Communi, the digital communication piece, right? Yeah.

[00:36:10] So in general, in general, in the practises that you work for and in your own practises, that human is is one person, irrespective of what the enquiry is about or if it’s an implant enquiry, somehow the right human gets onto that.

[00:36:27] So so in my place we’ve got three people who who do that full time. Three full time. Three full time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now. Those three people have had product knowledge training so that they know implant dentistry, orthodontics, general andoh as well as each other. Part of their training has has involved spending time in surgery, seeing these procedures right at the beginning.

[00:37:02] And some of them, some of them who Dental nurses as well,

[00:37:05] Some of them are either Dental nurses or maybe, you know, in some clinics apart. And Dental nurses have sort of graduated from that role. But as I said right in the beginning. Right, the sales process of sales is just earning the right to make a recommendation. Right. How on earth can you make a recommendation if you haven’t witnessed or experienced or seen what you’re capable of delivering? Right. So a big part of this process is training, making sure that your team know the ins and outs of what you’re talking about. Right. When someone speaking about Invisalign and give you a simple example. Right. When a patient asks about an attachment. Right. I’ve heard I’ve heard this with my own ears. So we spend a lot of time listening to recorded calls between patients and our team. OK, she rings up and says, hey, you know, I’m interested in this line, but I’ve heard about these attachments that have to fit to the T. And my team member turns around and says, what catchments? Right. When the patient is educating you about your own product, yeah. Something’s going wrong. Right. But that is not the fault of that individual, right. That’s that’s our fault. As business owners and Leaders know, it’s in our team on that process. Right. To that education piece that I think when we talk about Praksis growth, one of the key areas is education. Yorty. Yeah.

[00:38:35] And education and enlightened when we’ve got, you know, leads and customers. Yeah. So Dental practise the way that would be a lead so far because they haven’t yet become a patient. Yeah, correct. For us we have a process from lead to customer. That’s the CRM customer relationship management process. It’s all there. Yeah. Emails get shut off and all that. What do they used. I mean Sofra Vixen’s and things haven’t got that in place if they

[00:39:06] Know they haven’t. And look, we when I started, you know, when I started out in dentistry probably 15 years ago, this was a problem I wanted to solve. We started solving it with spreadsheets. Then we moved to Google Sheets. We had a traffic light system, you know, so and so the whole process becomes unmanageable. Right? Then you get CRM systems like Infusionsoft Drive, Dangaioh, whatever right is. There’s all sorts of shapes and flavours of them, but nothing ever quite like the box. And it’s a long story short, once again, we could probably do a whole episode on this, but I’ll quickly skip over it is that we developed our own custom CRM system that manages the entire digital patient journey in a way that was mapped out in my head. And that was that was definitely served my practise incredibly well in terms of growth and some of our top, top end clients as well in terms of growth, because in order to be able to employ something like that, you need the problem first.

[00:40:11] So what does it what’s the main? The main problem it solves is that it keeps the team and and the business owner aware of where everyone is on that path from becoming from a lead to a customer.

[00:40:23] So there’s a few key things. And I think I’ll be able to highlight this is just one example. OK, yeah, I’m a patient and I’m at the process in the journey where, hey, I’ve got loose dentures. They piss me off, you know, I can’t eat what I want, but I know nothing about implants. I’ve heard just heard about just seen on Facebook. So I fill out a form. I’m not quite ready to jump to make the investment and I’m actually not ready to speak to a human being about it. Right. So I’ve just I’m not chameleon who stepped into the shoes of that one individual is at that stage in the sales cycle. And what happens is that I send an email and some salesperson rings me up, leaves me a voicemail, I ignore it. They send me some cases. I think, oh, this is interesting. I’m going to jump on Google, find out a bit more. Still not ready to make an appointment. Still already I learn about price maybe at some point within a two to three week period. I have a phone call with someone still not ready to come in and speak to a human being about it. I’m embarrassed. Whatever. And then six months later, I think, you know, my son’s getting married. Yeah, I want to be able to eat at his wedding. Yeah, anything could be an event that triggered me right. Of steps into the shoes. That ain’t right. But guess what? You know, that practise that I was in touch with six months ago, they shared stories with me, the shared cases and content in a non-intrusive way. Yeah, the team have been trained to be really gentle in terms of their approach.

[00:41:55] And now I’m going to pick up the phone and go in and see Dr. Bidjara. I’m going to have that consultation. I’m going to learn more about the process and the funding and the finance. And I’m ready to rock and roll is if the team hadn’t stayed in touch with me, I may have jumped back onto Google or Facebook if. The team hadn’t stayed in touch with me, I might I may have gone to another team, OK? And in the same respects, if the team hadn’t got in touch with me, you know, there’d be a whole new consideration journey. Right. So what is the CRM system doing? Is staying in touch with the Payman automatically in an automated fashion is prompting my team to stay in touch with that patient. But it’s allowing us to do that at scale because I have just given you one example of a single patient with a single problem at a particular stage in the buying cycle. Multiply that by numerous stages, different treatment modalities. A thousand enquiries, then you got a problem on your hands, right? And so that is the problem the CRM system fixes. And what I’ll tell you what usually happens in busy practise is they get so complacent because they’re busy, the detail of the individual disappears and gets pushed to the side. Well, let me tell you something that we have patients who contacted us 12, 18 months ago who then come in and spend in excess of 30, 40 thousand pounds on July each, implant dentistry just because we were bothered to stay in touch. Yeah, and that is a huge loss when you multiply it across the board. Solanki question.

[00:43:54] I love that. I love them. So now let’s imagine, Duga, that the patient contacted you, was contacted back. You did the content thing where you kept in touch with them. They decided to come in. They saw the dentist. The dentist made a recommendation for a twenty thousand pound plan. And they say, I want to think about it. Beautiful things, beautiful, but a lot of energy getting to this point, haven’t we

[00:44:25] Met huge amount of energy, right? So at this point, what are that what are those patients objections? Right. The biggest mistake we make either is clinicians, ticos whoever’s managing that process right. Is not getting to the bottom of the why. Yeah. Is it a price. Is someone else making that decision for you. Is it perhaps not the right time. Have I not provided you with all the information that you need to make an informed decision. Is there something missing here? Yeah. Have I articulated this in some kind of jargon, a lexicon you don’t understand here? Have you or anyone else got any unanswered questions? So let’s assume that piece has been taken care of and they still need to go away and think about it. OK, there is a whole follow up process.

[00:45:18] Is that is that the software as well? The same software, correct?

[00:45:20] Correct. Correct. So let me just describe the journey that it handles from the first interaction of getting their contact details up until the point where they’re referring their friends and family members post treatment and leaving a Google stroke Facebook review. OK, and every step an interaction in between, OK. And and in the ideal world, the dentist figures it out there. And then but let’s say that doesn’t happen. Right? And they go away and they escape. OK, always see that when a patient walks away from the clinic not having said yes, you’re not now or if they don’t say no always means maybe later. Yeah, it’s a philosophy I’ve applied to all aspects of my life, including marrying the woman of my dreams. Yeah, not now, maybe later. And so, you know, what is that process in that follow up afterwards? That is just the start of the sales process again. OK, now my team will say, hold on a minute. I’ve called this patient four times. I’m pissing them off. Yeah, it’s winding them up. They said they’re not ready. They said they’re not. So then what do we do? We come up with a library of excuses, a library of reasons to bring that patient up. So what happens is that a patient goes away. The first one is, hey, Mr. Smith, can you just give us some feedback on your consultation? Was there anything that you found confusing, anything you didn’t understand? Or would you like to come back in and have another conversation, let’s say that goes nowhere, and then a week later, they get a phone call and it’s Hajja one here from the practise again, you know what I forgot to give you when you left the practise our PDF guide to same day teeth.

[00:47:17] It’s a full step by step approach. It’s got some patient experience that if I got your permission to just send that to you. Yeah, second contact, OK, third contacts, another time lag. There has been and it’s Mr. Smith. We’ve just finished treatment on Sean. And Sean really reminded me of you. I’ve got these photographs. And with your permission, I’d love to be able to send them to you, by the way, if you’ve got any questions. OK, so when my team come back to me and say, hey, we’re really winding patients up now with our follow up, I see that as a challenge. I step into that patient’s shoes. I think how can I maximise the volume of contacts without winding that person up and sounding to saleslady and continually seek permission and increase rapport with every contact? Yeah, yeah. And it’s just a process, right? It’s been an evolution. So it just develops and develops and develops. And, you know, the most important part of this we should keep coming back to is the team training. Yeah. Yeah. I want everyone might be able to deliver that message in the same way.

[00:48:35] What about what about the dentist? But I mean, is there an emotionally intelligent type of dentist who understands why that patient isn’t going ahead? And then the opposite kind of dentist says, hey, I did it, I talked about it, and I don’t know why they don’t come in and they don’t get to train dentists, do we?

[00:48:54] Do we do. And what you know, whether it’s on a one to one coaching basis or we come in and fix the team or whatever, but a big piece of that comes down to what we discussed at the beginning of this call where you said when a dentist comes to you for a website, do they already know what they want? OK. And the big thing is they don’t know what they don’t know. And the same thing about this whole consultation process, some of them saying, hey, I went through the questions to ask them. I did this, I did this, and I did this in a robotic manner. Yeah. I did everything I could have done during that consultation. But when we when we break it down to to the core elements and figure it out, sometimes you find little gaps and holes. Right. Sometimes you figure out that. You know, the reason why this patient came into practise was nothing to do with implant dentistry. It was to learn if that dentist is going to handle their phobia sensitively. Yeah, the implant dentistry was just an excuse. Yeah. And it’s figuring out that these some dentists are far better skilled at this, you know, than than others.

[00:50:04] And for others, it’s just a learning, training and evolution process. But. If you think as a dentist, you can turn up to a one day or a two day course. Learnt sales ethic or whatever it is, yeah, and some great trainers out there, great trainers who can teach you the, you know, the key elements. Right. And then go in and deliver that to a high standard the next day. And carry on doing that. You’re kidding yourself. Yeah, it’s like anything, right, learning a new skill you need to keep repeating, you need to continue the training process. OK, so the clients that we’ve seen who have excelled really well have been those that who’ve invested in themselves, continually believed in that and then gone on to grow. And then it becomes second nature. And and then those team members go on to train other team members internally. Right. You always need an external person. Once you get it, you get it. And then you can go on to be the ambassador within your own practise.

[00:51:10] All right. But so I’ve got a website. I’m really good at sales because I know how to sell. And it’s second nature now. And I’ve got a good team that you’ve trained for me and I’ve continued training. I’ve got the software now. I’m looking to massively scale because I want to buy practises around the corner and I want to I want to be like, you know, the guy now then what’s what’s what am I thinking now as far as the thing turns into like a scaling story? Let’s talk about ad adverts, social media, Google. What’s the split would you recommend between social ads and and pay per click? Does it differ depending on the location, this sort of thing?

[00:51:52] And this is the biggest misconception that most Dental stuff. Right, is the statement that you’ve just made. I want to scale how much do I need to spend on marketing, how much on Facebook, how much on Google, blah, blah, blah? Right. Scaling in itself is a business problem that you need to solve before marketing. OK, that involves people, processes, execution, strategy and marketing. All right. So that what you just said there is literally classical everyday conversations I’m having with potential clients or existing clients. I want to grow on a scale. OK, so the question I ask them is this. Tomorrow I’m going to deliver a hundred new enquiries into your practise. Talk me through who’s going to handle them? How are they going to be handled? On average? Every is going to involve fifteen minutes to twenty minutes of processing time. Have you got the human power to do that at the moment. OK, and then how many more patients do you want? How much time do you have, do you have the dentists to deliver that in the right treatment modalities. And then once we fixed and figured out that piece, OK, then we go back to the marketing phase and say, right, OK, so we need to do we need to fill six hours of implant dentistry chair time. How many consultations does that look like? How many enquiries do I need to generate to deliver that, how much talk time have we got with the team, the CRM team in managing them? And then work backwards. OK, and then we can then we can confidently say, you know what, if you want to send 80 cases over the next two months or three months or whatever, whatever that number is and time period is, this is what we need to do to deliver it.

[00:53:53] It’s very interesting. So each each person is a totally different answer to that, to those questions, depending on the sort of bandwidth, basically completely.

[00:54:02] And look, as an agency, if I turned around and said, hey, no problem, I’ll deliver you 50 enquiry’s. Yeah. Your team can handle it. That’s your problem. Yeah. Shit leads, good leads, whatever your problem. And then they get to the other end and say, well, how many more date cases have you done over the last three months? And it’s like two. Yeah. And I tell what we’ve delivered is three hundred leads. Where the hell have you been up to. Yeah. Whose fault is that. Where did that go wrong.

[00:54:34] You I remember having this conversation with you two, seven, eight years ago, and you used to blame the dentists at that 100 percent, but it seems like nowadays you’ve taken on that mantle yourself. You know, when someone says to you, I want a website and you say it’s a lot more of you. This is the kind of thing you’re talking about.

[00:54:58] Right, because I’m a practise owner now. Right. And seven, eight years ago was. Yeah. So I’ve got an appreciation of what happens in that black box when those cogs are turning. And I feel a sense of almost feel a sense of responsibility for delivering success. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to be more involved. You know, that’s part and parcel of our unique difference in the way that we operate. And and all of that has come through in education of being a practitioner, seeing those problems, making lots of mistakes and trying to fix them

[00:55:35] And even even

[00:55:37] To present day. We’re tweaking things and making mistakes all the time and fixing them and then and then passing that on to our clients where we can.

[00:55:45] Ok, so let’s move on. Let’s move on. I’ve given you the answer to all those questions. I’ve hired the right people and now I want to I want an influx of patients. What questions do you ask me regarding OK, I say to you, OK, what kind of patients do we want? I’m looking for clearer Leaders whitening, a lime bleach blonde type patients.

[00:56:08] Mm hmm. All right.

[00:56:09] You what are you going to start to ask me the locations around my practise where the rich people live? How are you going to.

[00:56:18] There’s an element of that, but it depends on. So once again, in the questioning process, what type of patient do you want to attract? OK, are you OK? So so. So that’s OK. So are you the dentist who wants the discerning patient who will pay six K for straightening and you will do you will go above and beyond and spend more time with that patient or do you want to stack them in a two nine or two.

[00:56:44] Eight six. I want six.

[00:56:48] You want six. OK, so then comes in terms of the marketing piece. OK, comes back to the copy. What is our web copy say. What is the landing page say. What does the how does the advert speak to that patient. Right. So advert A vs. adverb adva a cheat. OK, yeah. Today we’re hosting an Invisalign Open day and on this day we are giving away

[00:57:13] A bunch free this free that free this

[00:57:16] Year Rollergirl because this is the best deal that will never be repeated again until next month. OK, yeah. So either A at the B meet Dr. Hughes. Who was honed his training skills on Harley Street for the last 25 years, patients travel across the country to have an experience dentistry with him. Those discerning patients want picture perfect results, demand the best materials are generally time poor and want appointments fitted around them

[00:58:00] To totally different patients,

[00:58:02] Completely different patient, completely different patient. Right. So what are we looking at? Cosper Enquiry A vs. B? What do you think the difference is? It’s mental. It’s huge. OK. But then let’s look at the cost per processing enquiry. Do you want to process 200 enquiries that came in cheap or do you want to process 10 enquiries? We’re having really positive conversations with discerning patient. You can have longer conversations and they’re not slipping through the cracks. All right. So it really does come down to what what you want. You want the six cases. You want the two. Nine, OK, how will we go in? What was the language piece going to be? What’s the targeting going to look like? So when you talk about you target affluent areas. Right. So then we look at where are the pockets of affluence around that practise? How far are patients willing to travel? Where are the private schools? OK, let me stick a pin point on that private school and target moms, because if I target moms and I pinpoint that around that private school, the odds are it probably got kids there that targeting works really, really well, by the way, especially for children’s private orthodontic campaigns

[00:59:21] Can

[00:59:23] Push that to one side. Whatever tactic we use. You know, when it comes down to the brass tacks of marketing, who are we speaking to? What language are we speaking to them in? And then what? Marketing does not necessarily have to be about discounted dentistry, of course.

[00:59:41] And don’t get me

[00:59:42] Wrong, it works. Yeah, the option A works and it’s great to scale and I use it in my own practise. So I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it, but you need the infrastructure to deal with it.

[00:59:55] And so where are you at regards pay per click. Are you still doing the.

[01:00:01] It may and it delivers phenomenal results. Right. We let let’s just look at you know, if we just compare social to paid search, we’re talking Google ads vs. Facebook stock. Instagram ads. Right. Yeah, Facebook and Instagram ads are intrusive. Yeah. The reason I will jump on Facebook or Instagram is to record a video about me trying to lose weight or fasting or see what Payman is up to, what many small make over or whatever. I want to know what my buddies are up to. I want to know what my mates are doing. I don’t jump on Facebook or Instagram to find my next dentist. That’s not my intention. OK, any ad that I see is targeting me. My behaviour and my attributes, my location and Facebook know more about me than I know about myself. So those ads are very targeted but intrusive. I may not necessarily be in the market for that at that point.

[01:00:56] Ok, you say that, but it’s it’s even more clever than that, isn’t it? Because if you haven’t bought or haven’t pushbuttons, it doesn’t send you as many ads. And if if we if you have it does

[01:01:09] The A.I. and the smartness behind that is beyond mine in your comprehension. Let me just put it like that, OK, it’s super, super smart. Push it. Also pushing all that to one side. The experience is intrusive.

[01:01:24] Yeah, it’s well there’s a push processor approach. Yeah. I get it.

[01:01:28] Yeah, it’s intrusive. I jump on Google and I say implant Dental is near me. Yeah. Those are my penis implant dentist near me. An ad pops up that says your local five star implant dentist hundred and fifty five Google reviews, balkwill free video consultation, something like that. I click on that. There’s some congruency between the ad that I’ve clicked on, on the page that I’ve landed on. I fill out the form, I ring the number, I get attached. We go through this process and I can right the hit rate, the conversion rate of somebody who converts through Google ads versus Facebook. It’s a much easier process. Yeah, quality is higher, but the cost of desire to usability is higher. But there’s a neat little trick that you can do, which is that if somebody has landed on your page via Google and you can retarget them on Facebook and Facebook and. Yeah, yeah. And that works. And I pull up face words. Yeah, it’s Facebook and outwits mixed in,

[01:02:42] And you have to have you know, we were talking about Carter Boort, talking about what Carter bought. People who like any human, they’re going to buy something. And they Vandeman is it is their version of that in the form filling piece that when they went to the dentist, when the patients filling out the form and they don’t push send is their version of it because they put their email address in Dumanis and pixelate it money.

[01:03:14] Yeah, I was all over that. Right. So this is GPS so that he types their email address in and doesn’t hit send. I’m sending them to other. Yeah, that was all cool. Right. But if they’ve landed on that landing page I’ve got them pixel now. Right. I can retargeted them with an ad that says, hey, yeah. What’s going on. Did you get disturbed? I can speak to them, I can send them. So what are my options when I’m retargeting someone who’s already seen it? I can send them in the same direction. I can send them one step ahead. I can choose to educate them. Yeah, you can send it over and send it off the right. So so what I could do is like fill out that form and maybe the next step is they fill out the form of video consultation. I could show them an ad that takes them to the next step and say book video consultation. I can send them an ad saying Download a free guide to implant dentistry. Yeah. Or an ad that takes me straight back to the same place.

[01:04:19] So how about this? How about this. How about this? Let’s say all other things being equal because it’s all in the same practise. Yeah, the sales ninja’s, the same sales Nanjo, the the the Leaders it all came from the same pipe. What’s the difference between from one dentist to another order of magnitude. Are we talking as far as lead to conversion to word of mouth. Is it huge.

[01:04:43] Sorry, I don’t understand your question.

[01:04:46] So, so. So you’ve got that within within the same practise. You’ve got three dentists. Yeah. It’s all the same practise of the process that everyone went through. The patients went through to get to those dentists was the same. Yeah. So the only variable now is the dentist. Yeah. Out of those three dentists. What are we talking as far as conversion rate and what is it, what’s the difference.

[01:05:12] Huge outrage. Yeah. You put all the systems and processes in front of them and behind them into the side of them. Yeah there are. So, you know, there are there are some human beings who just manage to connect at a level with patients that, you know, they just they convert, OK? And there are some dentists, you know, who at best do a mediocre job, OK? And we see that, you know what? We pull the numbers each month and look at the conversion rates of of people across the board per treatment modality. Right. Fellows, break it down into treatment because we know, like, you know, what’s the conversion pay was conversion rate on average. Ortho patient is an average implant patient versus someone who has been referred for Endo. Right. Why is that random guy got a hundred percent conversion rate base? It’s been referred. Yeah. And so we always break it down into the different treatment modalities. But even when you’re looking at it, let’s just say also constantly, you’ve got three clinicians who do also in your practise is huge.

[01:06:18] And so you take it back to the

[01:06:20] We feed back to them and we help them to improve. OK, that’s the important thing. And some of them I mean, example, some of them want one particular dentist just used to take too long for his consultations. Right. And it was it was information overload for the patient. So the conversion rate was really low. So we sat back, we went through the consultation process and we filmed it all down. And I said, I know you want to deliver this, right? I know you want to deliver this. Do it at the treatment plant. Hand over, please. Yeah, do it. Do it at the stage where the patient said, yes, you do with the consent you do in the handover. And given the extra detail at this stage, this is the salient information you want to get from the patient. This is the salient information you want to deliver. And and we and we see a list. Right. So there could be a whole range of reasons why they’re not converting as well. But, you know, may you run courses for dentists all the time, OK? You’ve got your you’ve got your charismatic guy or girl in the room. You can speak to anyone from any background and flow and have a conversation.

[01:07:29] No, I get it. I get I thought I thought maybe there’s an element of coordinator who’s so hot, you know, getting down to the do you want to go ahead and and maybe there’s an element of you can bring the dentist right back to clinical and you’re suitable or you’re not. And then the weather. Do you want to go ahead? Peace gets taken over by someone else. And the systems

[01:07:55] In many cases is a done deal. OK, in many cases it’s a done deal. And here’s the thing. Well, I always say about consultation and it depends on every practise is different. Every has got to know. Every practise believes in the TCO philosophy. OK, typical example, my brother. OK. My brother does not have a car, but he knows the inside. Seven to 10 minutes, he will convert that case. He will build rapport

[01:08:27] And he will get himself or himself.

[01:08:30] Right? Of course. And that’s OK. So everyone’s different. Everyone’s different. And so there are certain cultural practises where actually by the time it gets to the dentist, the finances are agreed, the details are figured out and they’re dealing with the clinical piece and just signing them up and consent them. It does happen. Yeah. In my practise, we don’t have a cold process as such, but we have what’s called earth is the leading edge, right? I’d call them Prisco or somewhere in between Absconder and the lead ninja where they’re not walking into the practise and having a consultation with the dentist without an indication of approximate price points. Yeah, and that’s the most expensive part of of a complementary or paid consultation is a patient. Come in and sit down in your chair thinking that they can get their teeth straightened for eight hundred quid or think in the case of an implant drilled into their head for a grand. Right. Isn’t they just you’re wasting their time. You’re wasting your time is not helpful for anyone. So giving them a realistic guide prior to that happening is a point of triage that happens with the lead ninjas. OK, and then after that is the piece that happens with the dentist, which, you know, can sometimes fall apart. Sometimes there’s just not that rapport bill or that connexion built or whatever. And, you know, and it doesn’t go ahead, but it plays an important part. What that piece also does is it helps you to shape the conversation based on how busy your business is. So a lot of consultants, coaches, whatever will say you must take one approach. Never see the price, always give of indication of price, just give a starting from price and then people coming or Prav.

[01:10:17] What’s your what’s your piece of advice and the answer that question is it depends if my dentist is sat there twiddling these thumbs for seven hours a day. Yeah. I’d rather have patients sat in front of him having conversations, him earning the right to make a recommendation. OK, and for those patients, I might give them just a starting from price. Our orthodontic treatment start from two thousand five hundred pounds upwards. That’s it. To take my practise at this current moment in time to get a patient in the chair for braces six to eight weeks. What do you think the conversation is that we have with the patients, and why is that different to the other guy? We can afford to be more aggressive because the more patients I put in front of the dentist who haven’t been triaged had. And at wasting time, right, conversion rate goes down to the conversation we have is the hour orthodontic treatment start from two and a half to six thousand. And sir, let me tell you that the vast majority of patients. It’s it’s slap bang in the middle of those two values now, that conversation is completely different because the patient’s expectations when they’re walking through the door is somewhere between, say, three to six grand. Yeah. And they’re walking in with within their head somewhere between four to five. Right. Four and a half grand, whatever. OK, they’re not pre framed with the two and a half K figure and being sold. Yeah, yeah, to answer that question, there’s no one size fits all for every practise or every business depends on the situation as usual.

[01:12:07] But as you say, it’s been an education, but it’s been an education. I know we’ve only just scratched the surface, but it’s been it’s been an education. Lovely. Lovely to get to the bottom of it with you, buddy.

[01:12:23] Pleasure. My pleasure.

[01:12:26] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders want history. Your house, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

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