Rhona and Payman meet Talitha Price, the founder of the successful hair extension business Fox and Vamp.
Talitha shares her entrepreneurial journey, from her early days in the beauty industry working for Virgin Atlantic and major cosmetics brands to starting her own salon and product line.
The conversation delves into the challenges and triumphs of building a business, including the loneliness of being a sole founder, the importance of having a supportive partner, and the difficulties of juggling motherhood and entrepreneurship.
Talitha also opens up about her personal struggles, growth, and overcoming her lowest moments.
In This Episode
00:02:00 – Starting in business
00:09:20 – Entrepreneurial spirit and intuition
00:19:20 – New business challenges
00:27:25 – Transition from service to products
00:32:40 – Motherhood, family and business
00:44:00- Low points
00:49:45 – The Prince’s Trust charity
00:51:30 – Vision and challenges
00:58:45 – Teamwork, support, and vulnerability
01:00:20 – Family health crisis
01:01:40 – Unhappy clients
01:06:55 – Provide a brief episode summary
About Talitha Price
Talitha Price is the founder of Chelsea’s Fox and Vamp hair salon and hair extension products.
Rhona/Talitha: Found a loneliness is a really big thing. If you’re a sole founder, it’s much lonelier [00:00:05] than people having co-founders. And there’s some people that fail at their first Start-Up, and it’s only them they actually [00:00:10] prefer. They’re like quite traumatised at the loneliness aspect of it on every level. You know, we’ve.
Payman Langroudi: All [00:00:15] started a business. Yeah. And it’s quite interesting that if you tell friends and family, [00:00:20] I’ve got this idea yours was a hair salon, was it? Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: Well it was. Yeah. [00:00:25] Exactly. Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: Or you were going to do what you did. I remember you pitching it at me, telling me [00:00:30] this is what you’re going to do. Yeah, a lot of people will tell you it’s a bad idea.
Rhona/Talitha: Honestly, my I [00:00:35] will never forget my auntie. I love her dearly, but she looked at me in pity, like she looked at me like she was going [00:00:40] to burst into tears. And she was like, you’re leaving this corporate role. You know you’re doing. Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: And some people will live their own fear [00:00:45] out in you.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: But it’s really interesting that if loads of people tell [00:00:50] you it’s a good idea, it’s not a good idea. So true. Yeah. Because the reason is if it’s such [00:00:55] an obviously good idea, then there’ll be many competitors that be loads of people doing [00:01:00] it. If everyone’s telling you it’s not a good idea, it may not be, but [00:01:05] it may be. Yeah. And it’s that, it’s that that when you say does [00:01:10] someone have entrepreneurial spirit in them, it’s that question when people are telling you it’s not going to work, [00:01:15] and yet you still have this voice in your head, go.
[VOICE]: This [00:01:25] is mind movers. Moving [00:01:30] the conversation forward on mental health and optimisation for dental professionals. [00:01:35] Your hosts Rhona Eskander and Payman [00:01:40] Langroudi.
Rhona/Talitha: Welcome to another episode of Mind Movers, [00:01:45] the mental health podcast in dentistry, where today we’re speaking with Talitha mackey, the creator [00:01:50] force and successful business owner of Fox and Vamp. I had the pleasure [00:01:55] of meeting Talitha on another podcast and was blown away by her story and journey. [00:02:00] She is an incredible woman who has been balancing motherhood, [00:02:05] mental health and offers valuable insights and inspiration. So join us as we delve [00:02:10] into her story. Welcome to Leesa. Thank you. So lively, so [00:02:15] weird to hear. Talitha mackey. I mean, that is my name. It’s my married name, but every [00:02:20] day I never use it. Oh my god. But it’s nice to hear my husband [00:02:25] will be delighted. What’s the, um. The price like? I managed to leave. The price is everything [00:02:30] on everything on print. Even when I send it off, I’m always leave the price. And he’s like, why? But you know what? We [00:02:35] had this whole debate. We’re not going to get into this debate now. But I did a podcast with my really good friend Shivani, and [00:02:40] we did the whole podcast about would you change your surname? Yeah. And I think it was it was a really [00:02:45] controversial conversation and obviously all the like Andrew Tate lovers came for us and were like, these women are going [00:02:50] to be single forever and like, no one’s going to marry them. But I think there was something about the identity [00:02:55] of your maiden name with your business because I’m Doctor Iskander, my dad’s Doctor Iskander, because he’s [00:03:00] a doctor.
Rhona/Talitha: Um, and I am, I feel like Doctor Iskander. It’s just [00:03:05] like it just goes to, you know, and I quite enjoy that. So, like, Talitha Price might [00:03:10] be like. It just feels. It feels I can’t I feel my husband’s going to listen to this. It [00:03:15] feels better. But equally my children’s surnames are murky. Yeah. So I love machi. Machi is a very cool [00:03:20] okay smell of it. This is the first bit though. So Talitha, I want to ask [00:03:25] you about the creation of Fox and Vamp. Okay. So we, you know, it’s [00:03:30] always so inspiring to have a business woman here. And I want you to tell us a little bit about Fox [00:03:35] and what it is and how it started. Yeah. So I have always been [00:03:40] really passionate about her beauty makeup. And since [00:03:45] a very young age, I basically dropped out of college before I was thrown [00:03:50] out of college and had to go, had to go and get a job. And I remember my mum [00:03:55] being like, if you don’t get a job in one week, she’s like, you are going back to college. [00:04:00] It was the end of the summer. At this point. She was like, you are going back to college in September and you’re going to be down a year at that point. [00:04:05]
Rhona/Talitha: And I was like, oh my God. Frantically trying to find a job, I phoned up every single [00:04:10] salon, and at that point I was too old to be taken on because it’s government funded. [00:04:15] So you have to be of a certain age, um, to be taken on. I was already 17. You have [00:04:20] to be like 16 when you’re doing it. Anyway, I begged the salon. They asked me what my GCSEs were. [00:04:25] I actually got really good GCSEs. I just wasn’t focussed in college. It wasn’t what I wanted to do anyway. [00:04:30] They took a risk on me, so I started doing hairdressing. How old were you then? I was [00:04:35] 17. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I had to complete the course in two years where usually I take three and [00:04:40] a half to four, I disappear. So they had to fast track me through the course. Um, so really [00:04:45] enjoyed it. But I lived in a really small town and just had really itchy feet. [00:04:50] Um, so I actually ended I didn’t speak about this on the other podcast, [00:04:55] but I ended up working for Virgin Atlantic. Oh, wow. Yeah. Which was amazing. [00:05:00] And I did that again. I was actually one of the youngest to ever fly with Virgin Atlantic. Oh my [00:05:05] God, what is that of Richard Branson saying? I was one of the youngest people too. Wow. Um, [00:05:10] were you.
Payman Langroudi: An air stewardess? Yeah. What’s it like?
Rhona/Talitha: Wow, that’s so young. It’s [00:05:15] hard work. Yeah, I was young at the time. It was amazing. But I was literally driving from [00:05:20] Southport, where I’m from, which is up north.
Payman Langroudi: Tiny town. Liverpool.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, past Liverpool. [00:05:25] And I was driving to Heathrow or Gatwick to fly, so [00:05:30] I would spend all my money driving just to do the flight to go away for a few days, [00:05:35] which was amazing. And so it just really wasn’t kind of sustainable. When I was on board, [00:05:40] though, I kind of fell in love with like, um, selling makeup products. And this person [00:05:45] who at the time, I didn’t know who it was, she handed me a card and she turned out to be one of [00:05:50] the head people in Estee Lauder. She was like a sales manager and like the highest sales manager in Estee Lauder. [00:05:55] And she’s like, if you ever want a job, let me know. So I ended up getting in touch with her, moved to London. [00:06:00] And this is, by the way, I didn’t just get in touch with her. This was like maybe a year later, moved [00:06:05] to London. Like I said, I’d always loved makeup beauty, I loved hair, but I [00:06:10] didn’t want to go back into it. At that point, I fell into working in makeup, started off in a makeup counter [00:06:15] a year and a half later, was an area manager. Yeah. Worked for LVMH, [00:06:20] worked for Estee Lauder Group, ran Selfridges, Beauty Hall and Oxford [00:06:25] Street. The whole two hall. Yeah, a 250 staff under me. Wow. How old [00:06:30] were you then? 21. 22. She’s young. Yeah, [00:06:35] amazing. I feel like a fast border. I feel like I’m speaking. But while I was [00:06:40] doing this. I’d had like a really unfortunate hair experience [00:06:45] and I found myself needing hair extensions. And listen, I’m a northern girl. Having hair extensions [00:06:50] is very normal.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, I’m always pretty much had hair extensions. But anyway, my hair had been really compromised, [00:06:55] so I just couldn’t find anywhere good in London to get [00:07:00] them. And I was travelling back up north to Liverpool to get them. I was literally hopping on a flight to Marbella [00:07:05] to get my hair done. When my mum was leaving to go to the person she was using [00:07:10] who was amazing, and I was like, oh my God. I mean, I literally did this for a year and I was like, [00:07:15] why isn’t there somewhere in London where you can go with a really high quality hair extensions [00:07:20] that’s affordable? Of course, there are places, there’s a handful of places, but it was a bit unattainable [00:07:25] to me at the time because it was too expensive, or you’d have to compromise on quality. [00:07:30] And I was like, there’s a real gap in the market here. This should be good hair available [00:07:35] at a better price. So really, that’s kind of how the business [00:07:40] was formed. I trained on my days off to do hair extensions. Obviously, somewhere back in my [00:07:45] mind I did have the skill set technically being a hairdresser, so it’s not like you can just pick [00:07:50] it up where you left off. Obviously I had to train and retrain and really that’s how the brand was [00:07:55] started and that’s how that’s how it began. I left my corporate role. [00:08:00] I started doing it out of my flat. My husband, who now my husband, who was my boyfriend at the [00:08:05] time, said to me, if it doesn’t work out, you’ll have to get a job. I’ll give you three months. And [00:08:10] I was like, yeah, fine, I’ll get a job.
Rhona/Talitha: I’m a hustler. I’ll get a job. That’s fine. They did work out. So we [00:08:15] are. So I think, you know, one of the fascinating things is, is that people [00:08:20] I mean, actually I’m going to put it out there to both of you. Do you think that some people are [00:08:25] just born with entrepreneurial spirit and some people aren’t? Or do you think it’s something [00:08:30] that you can get into, as it were? You know, because what I’m hearing, you know, Talitha was kicked out [00:08:35] of school, clearly conventional school didn’t, you know, left school was almost kicked out. She didn’t [00:08:40] want to pursue that role, but still became incredibly successful and had that [00:08:45] drive from a young age. Do you think entrepreneurial spirit is something that you’re born with, or do [00:08:50] you think that you do? Yeah, I honestly have always my mum was like, I remember [00:08:55] I had a fascination with like designer handbags when I was young and my mum was like, well, [00:09:00] you know, they’re so expensive. And I was like, well, I’ll get a job. Yeah, I was 14 or 15 at the time. I had [00:09:05] three jobs. At 15, I would literally work in a designer clothes shop for a day. I would go to work [00:09:10] in a restaurant at midnight, and then I would go glass collect in a nightclub. I was 15 [00:09:15] and I bought my handbag. After two months, I saved up myself. So it’s just in me. Yeah, I am not [00:09:20] afraid of hard work anywhere. I’ll do any of the work. I wouldn’t ask anybody to do anything that I [00:09:25] would.
Payman Langroudi: Put the question to answer. The question is interesting, insomuch as like you were very successful at what you were [00:09:30] doing, you know, you were running the floor, 250 people working. You’re obviously very [00:09:35] good at sales. It’s clear, but entrepreneurial. You’re. Yeah, that’s true. [00:09:40] There’s an element of risk. Yeah. That some people really shy away from.
Rhona/Talitha: Correct. [00:09:45] Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: And there’s a loneliness to it as well that some people can’t handle and some [00:09:50] people are fine with. Yeah. There’s definitely a loneliness to it.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. There is, there is, there is like [00:09:55] these communities now because we went to this parlour event a few weeks ago. Yeah. And at this [00:10:00] parlour event there were loads of like start up brands. And they said that like founder loneliness is like [00:10:05] a really big thing. Like if you’re a sole founder, it’s much lonelier than people having co-founders. [00:10:10] And there’s some people that fail at their first Start-Up and it’s only them they actually prefer. They’re like quite traumatised [00:10:15] at the loneliness aspect of it on every level.
Payman Langroudi: You know, we’ve all started a business. Yeah. [00:10:20] And it’s quite interesting that if you tell friends and family, I’ve got this idea yours [00:10:25] was a hair salon, was it? Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: Well, yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: Or [00:10:30] you were going to do what you did. I remember you pitching it at me, telling me this is what you’re going to do. Yeah, [00:10:35] a lot of people will tell you it’s a bad idea.
Rhona/Talitha: Honestly, I will never forget my auntie. [00:10:40] I love her dearly. But she looked at me in pity, like she looked at me like she was going to burst into tears. And she was like, [00:10:45] you’re leaving this corporate role. You know you’re doing. Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: And some people will live their own fear out in you.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. [00:10:50]
Payman Langroudi: But it’s really interesting that if loads of people tell you it’s a good idea, [00:10:55] it’s not a good idea. So true. Yeah. Because the reason is if it’s such an obviously good idea, [00:11:00] then there’ll be many competitors to be loads of people doing it. If [00:11:05] everyone’s telling you it’s not a good idea, it may not be, but it may [00:11:10] be. Yeah. And it’s that, it’s that that when you say does someone have entrepreneurial spirit [00:11:15] in them is that question people are telling you it’s not going to work, and yet you still have [00:11:20] this voice in your head, go.
Rhona/Talitha: But I want to ask you, Talitha was your background. Did you grow up in a privileged background or [00:11:25] a like normal background, a working class background? What was your background working class? [00:11:30] I would say I did go to private school, but my mum like struggled to put us through private school. My dad [00:11:35] wasn’t very present, so yeah, I was. Did that drive you? I think [00:11:40] so I’ve done some. Therapy. And actually I was literally just thinking that. And I think that I’ve [00:11:45] done in a child work and all sorts. And I think that actually she came to the conclusion of [00:11:50] you are the way you are, and you’re so determined because no one else was going to look after it was up [00:11:55] to you. You felt very determined to be able to look after your mum, and [00:12:00] I would have never come to that conclusion on my own. It’s just how I am. Yeah, I’m happy [00:12:05] to work and I’m happy, but potentially that is because, [00:12:10] I mean, look, obviously Payman made some really good points because we talk about like being a nepo baby and [00:12:15] all that sort of thing. So sometimes when you come from a very privileged or very rich background, it’s sometimes even harder [00:12:20] to prove yourself because people just assume you are where you are because of who your parents are or like, and [00:12:25] sometimes that’s more difficult. I think definitely when I think about my own childhood, when we [00:12:30] first came back to the UK after my dad had left, like we did not have any money, and I remember my dad [00:12:35] taking us to Asda and I wasn’t allowed to buy like normal coke.
Rhona/Talitha: We had to buy Asda’s like [00:12:40] best or whatever. Yeah, and I remember my parents like your mum, she, [00:12:45] my mum was like, we have to put them in private school because the schools were so rough and education was always like the highest [00:12:50] pillar in life. So like again, my mum was like working two jobs. My dad was paid really [00:12:55] badly on the NHS at that time, and every single penny went to school that we didn’t take holidays, [00:13:00] we didn’t go out for meals, it just went on schools and then going to the school because we couldn’t [00:13:05] afford school uniform and had to buy it from the charity. I was bullied because mine had holes or whatever or whatever. [00:13:10] Yeah, and then I remember the children’s. I was always popular because I was always a sociable person, but the children’s [00:13:15] parents didn’t want their kids to hang out with me because my parents were never present. So they [00:13:20] thought I’d be a bad influence because they never picked me up or would never come to any of these clubs, and we couldn’t afford it. But [00:13:25] it was that as young as like six years old, that was like, I’m going to prove all these parents wrong, [00:13:30] like on a subconscious level, because I was so protective of the way that they thought so negatively of my [00:13:35] parents.
Rhona/Talitha: And I recognised the power of having like financial freedom was. So [00:13:40] I think that drove me to a certain extent. That’s amazing to think what you’ve achieved now. [00:13:45] Well, no thank you. But but I, I honestly I think what you’ve achieved is amazing. And back [00:13:50] to Paiman’s point though, you say like if someone says the ID is really good, [00:13:55] then it’s almost like it should deter you. But I’m going to put something out there. Here is [00:14:00] something that’s been around for a really long time, and how businesses haven’t thrived in [00:14:05] the way that it’s thrived with you. So why do you think, like, what do you think is [00:14:10] has made Fox and the success and tell us about like what happened during the pandemic as well? Because I know [00:14:15] that’s when you had the launch. Yeah. Of course. So we actually opened the Chelsea Salon in um, [00:14:20] uh, 20 19th December. Obviously we were shut in March of [00:14:25] 2020. So that was a really obviously difficult time. I’d [00:14:30] just opened the business up for it to just be closed, and obviously it was such a risk at the time. And I remember [00:14:35] like when I was given the rent at the time, like working it out per client, how many clients I’d have [00:14:40] to do by yourself.
Payman Langroudi: Would you have a co-founder?
Rhona/Talitha: No, just by myself. So I took this on by [00:14:45] myself and I’d taken only one employee on. At that point.
Payman Langroudi: I saved up loads of money [00:14:50] and put it all in. Yeah, actually. Fund it.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. It’s just so lucky. I know a detour [00:14:55] now, but it is actually an interesting story. And actually I love this story because, um, it just shows [00:15:00] about being a good person. So I had when I was renting a space in Wandsworth Town, I had a client, [00:15:05] super nice client. However, when you’re just starting off and [00:15:10] you have appointments, you’ll know yourself and someone lets you down. It’s quite a big deal. Huge deal. Huge. You [00:15:15] take it so personal because that that appointment is everything to you. Yeah. And she had actually done it [00:15:20] to me a few times maybe like 2 or 3. So obviously you feel really defeated. [00:15:25] Anyway, she’d messaged me she wanted to come in. I was like, I’m just gonna of course I’m gonna, you know, [00:15:30] welcome her in. And I was just super, super nice to her as I would always be. And we were [00:15:35] just chatting. But I was a bit deflated in this appointment and she said, you just don’t see me like yourself. I said, well, I’ve started [00:15:40] looking for premises so expensive. I was like, I can’t believe it. Like, I just feel like [00:15:45] I’m never going to be able to get a salon. Like, how on earth do people take it on? They need X, Y and Z. And [00:15:50] anyway, she was quite and she was like, this is really strange, but my next [00:15:55] door neighbour has a salon in a house and the people are moving out to Notting Hill because they’ve expanded. She [00:16:00] was like, she’s actually changing it back into part of the house, but do you want me to speak to her? And I was like, [00:16:05] yes, we show me pictures, show me the images.
Rhona/Talitha: It’s amazing. So I met with her that [00:16:10] night, signed for it the next day. Amazing. Yeah. So there was no like big and obviously it [00:16:15] because it’s technically residential. It was done in a very different way. And I [00:16:20] think actually now, like I would never want a salon that was different to what the salon is now [00:16:25] because it’s within a townhouse. It’s, it’s it’s stunning. It makes it really special in [00:16:30] the same place, still in the same place. It’s on Sydney Street and Chelsea. So just around the corner from yourself. It’s [00:16:35] a beautiful space. And I think coming back to your original question of what [00:16:40] what makes it. You know what makes it? I don’t want to say thrive, but what makes it different [00:16:45] is really the experience. I’ve obviously, I’m I worked really hard building relationships [00:16:50] with clients and anybody that I brought into the business. I’ve waited, [00:16:55] even if it’s meant that I’ve taken more on myself or it’s been super stressful. I’ll only [00:17:00] bring on people who really align with my values just so that we can keep the business [00:17:05] at a certain level. We try to keep ahead of the curve [00:17:10] in terms of any different methods. I’m not like set in my ways that it has to be done [00:17:15] this way. I’ll very much pivot exactly what we were mentioning before the podcast, before I’ll pivot [00:17:20] when needed.
Rhona/Talitha: And I just think it’s about really being honest, having integrity. [00:17:25] We know we’ve got a we’re lucky that we [00:17:30] same as you, you know, we work with a lot of influencers, but we don’t hunt down the influencers. We never, ever [00:17:35] get in touch with them. Yes, exactly. These are people coming to us because they want the service. And, you know, that’s [00:17:40] because we’re providing a good service, which I think, again, says a lot. Yeah. Um, [00:17:45] what? So during lockdown then what happened? We [00:17:50] obviously could not open. I mean, like, did you panic? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. [00:17:55] Panicked. Um, panicked, was worried about money, [00:18:00] had to continue to pay the rent because I’d just taken it on. I was so scared of losing it. [00:18:05] So I had to pay the rent fully for around nine months, I think. [00:18:10] And then I was just like, I just can’t do this. And then we negotiated to bring it down to half. I didn’t [00:18:15] have any help, any government help because it was classed as residential. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So [00:18:20] that was really hard. Did you have lost stars by that point? No. So I didn’t have too many [00:18:25] staff. And the staff that I did have were self-employed. So that was probably better. But then equally you worry that you’re not going [00:18:30] to have those staff back. You feel guilty because you’re not able to look after them even though you want to. I wasn’t in a position [00:18:35] where I could, so yeah, there was a lot of panic. There was a lot of obviously crappy [00:18:40] days, like, of course, for everyone.
Rhona/Talitha: And the only thing I would [00:18:45] say, though, looking back on Covid is my business really [00:18:50] thrived after Covid. Yeah. How long were you guys allowed open for? Because that’s same with dentists. Like three [00:18:55] months after the announcement. Yeah, we were allowed to go back, so we were [00:19:00] allowed to go back much earlier. Yes. I also had just bought the clinic and I suddenly had all this staff and [00:19:05] everything. Yeah, I switched to doing like online consults and I pivoted and I was just quite, [00:19:10] you know, I really did my best to try and stay with us. I completely forgot that [00:19:15] actually. Yeah, yeah. So I would literally have to put my face on, like, obviously like in my pyjamas and exactly the same. [00:19:20] Yeah. I’d be doing online consultations, getting everyone booked up. We had waitlist upon waitlist. Same. Yeah. [00:19:25] We would go in at six in the morning. We wouldn’t leave till 11 at night like we were just round the clock. And it was [00:19:30] actually such a weird, great momentum. Everyone was just so happy to see us, so happy [00:19:35] to be there throwing money at you. Let’s be honest, because people had it. They had money in their pocket. Money? [00:19:40] Yeah, they were so happy to spend it. So I always think, I don’t know if my [00:19:45] business would be the same actually, because actually, you know, I try to look out the positive from it. So off [00:19:50] the back of it we did. Well, you know.
Payman Langroudi: There’s a massive similarity between dentistry [00:19:55] and hairdressing.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah that’s massive. But also a lot of our dentists are self-employed. [00:20:00]
Payman Langroudi: Well let’s let’s start with dentists I know hairdressers the very early days.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. [00:20:05]
Payman Langroudi: The very before university started teaching dentistry, [00:20:10] it was just like.
Rhona/Talitha: What.
Payman Langroudi: Was the hairdressers that were doing the tea.
Rhona/Talitha: No [00:20:15] way.
Payman Langroudi: 100 years ago. Right.
Rhona/Talitha: I heard more than a hundred years ago and 50. My [00:20:20] goodness, clothes on. Electricity. We have the same skill set. But no. But then I [00:20:25] see.
Payman Langroudi: There’s a very similar in that if someone doesn’t turn up, you’ve lost money.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, [00:20:30] it’s client facing, you’ve got intimate.
Payman Langroudi: Owner and you’ve got, we call them associates, but you would call them. [00:20:35]
Rhona/Talitha: Clients.
Payman Langroudi: Well no. The other.
Rhona/Talitha: Oh sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Payman Langroudi: Uh, hairdressers who work.
Rhona/Talitha: For [00:20:40] you, you know, of course, the stylist.
Payman Langroudi: The stylist, they’re on a percentage of what they. Yeah, it’s very similar.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. [00:20:45] What it is. Yeah. What I’m.
Payman Langroudi: Interested in is, as a new business.
Rhona/Talitha: Medieval Europe. [00:20:50] I’m just putting out there medieval Europe, 1745. This is not 100 years [00:20:55] ago.
Payman Langroudi: 150.
Rhona/Talitha: 250. But [00:21:00] but.
Payman Langroudi: But then. But then as a new business. Yes. And let’s face it, Sydney Street. Yes. [00:21:05] That’s not a cheap place to rent, right where you’ve got. I know you had a few [00:21:10] clients from, from your Wandsworth days, but where you’ve got essentially empty seats. What [00:21:15] did you do marketing wise to get patients in, get patients to get [00:21:20] clients in.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. No. Well but you know I yeah it’s [00:21:25] interesting. Listen there’s always going to be ups and downs. Sometimes we’re super busy. Sometimes obviously it’s quieter. I [00:21:30] don’t really sweat the quiet times now because I understand the business enough to know that [00:21:35] we will go through the motions. At the time, of course, I sweated it more. What I would do [00:21:40] is we’re very present. On social media. I think that it’s really easy [00:21:45] to show the results that instant. So it’s very easy to show visual, very [00:21:50] visual. So I think having our clients are a really good asset and they’re obviously willing [00:21:55] to be on the Instagram. We’ve always utilised that really well. We do quite a lot of Q and A’s that [00:22:00] we get so many consultations on the back of, and honestly, [00:22:05] word of mouth. I’ve never really worked with marketing at all or PR [00:22:10] and yeah, I’ve just literally relied on word of mouth, [00:22:15] relied on doing a good job. And of course, were you very strong on.
Payman Langroudi: Social media before you [00:22:20] even started?
Rhona/Talitha: No. Literally absolutely shocking. And I also know did you start when what [00:22:25] year? 2008, 2019. So yeah. So the beginning of so the most.
Payman Langroudi: You [00:22:30] didn’t have thousands or hundreds of thousands of followers.
Rhona/Talitha: No. Still don’t sadly. But you [00:22:35] can a pretty decent following. Yeah. No we have we have we have a nice following and we have an engaged following as well. [00:22:40] But, um, you know, I’ve worked with different influencers. I mentioned on the other podcast that, um, Sophie [00:22:45] Milner’s one. Sophie Milner is one of them. Laura Will’s fashion book blog. I speak about her on every podcast [00:22:50] because she really was a pivotal mindset. She’s my Melissa’s wardrobe. Yeah. Go on. Yeah [00:22:55] she is. She was a pivotal moment within the business. She is somebody that [00:23:00] doesn’t look like your typical extension client. And I think there’s obviously, [00:23:05] you know, the people’s thoughts behind extensions aren’t necessarily true. [00:23:10] Like maybe mine doesn’t look like extensions, but it is it’s full head of extensions, you know, and that’s maybe not where their head goes. [00:23:15] And in Laura Wales is a very Chelsea mum, very natural looking [00:23:20] and her style is incredible. And I think [00:23:25] she really drove the women in, in the area into the salon. And I [00:23:30] always say to her, I wouldn’t have been. I actually always say I don’t think I’d have been able to keep the salon if it wasn’t for you initially. [00:23:35] And but, you know, she’s still a client today, and I think that says so much that she’s been with me from [00:23:40] the beginning and she’s like, I can never she actually always says, I can never take my hair out.
Rhona/Talitha: It’s my superpower. [00:23:45] Yeah. And I’m like, that’s amazing. The fact that she’s still coming speaks volumes. You know, we don’t [00:23:50] always post it. We don’t. You know, it’s not the same. It’s the same age. Melissa. She’s a paying client now. Like I [00:23:55] would never take it. But she insists, you know. And like she’s just loves her hair. And yeah, I [00:24:00] think that your hair is like. I mean, so your hair. Yeah. [00:24:05] Like, I know you can’t relate. So that’s like my hair. You know, my [00:24:10] hair is something like, I’m lucky because I’ve always had, you know, Middle Eastern [00:24:15] hair essentially. But last year I was going through quite a lot, and I lost a lot of hair. And then [00:24:20] I went to a trichologist and a doctor and they basically were like, look, you’ve got signs of androgenic [00:24:25] alopecia, um, because of all the stress. And I just felt like I wasn’t myself. So people [00:24:30] underestimate and hair is one of those things that it does reflect your state of mind. Yeah, 100%. [00:24:35] So I think, you know, that’s really, really important. Um, influencer marketing is always something [00:24:40] that I talk about and the power of that, and if you’ve got the right influencers and I think the formula that people get wrong, I see [00:24:45] it in dentistry as well, is that people bombard a load of influencers and they expect [00:24:50] stuff, or they start putting these KPIs on them, and it doesn’t work like that because they’re also human beings. [00:24:55]
Rhona/Talitha: And you’ve got to understand that when they want to post something, they it is their job [00:25:00] and they want to be like credible and authentic, because that’s the whole reason the audience aren’t going to believe [00:25:05] you if you’re paying to promote a service essentially 100%. And listen, it [00:25:10] doesn’t, I think you’ll agree it doesn’t really have the same hit these days. Yeah. It doesn’t. You know, [00:25:15] it’s great if you get a great influencer that really makes a difference. But I don’t [00:25:20] see it impacting the business. Maybe because we’ve grown or maybe because it just people [00:25:25] just don’t buy into it as much. But I think working with really well aligned [00:25:30] influencers is the right thing to do. Somebody asked me the other day, would you stop working with them? [00:25:35] And I was like, no, I think it’s actually more damaging for them to go somewhere else, you know, get their hair done, [00:25:40] happy to have them, you know, the right people in the salon. But like I say, we don’t really reach out there. [00:25:45] Of course, there’s like people on my wish list. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Manifest. [00:25:50] Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: So are you then turned it from a service business to a product [00:25:55] business.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, exactly.
Payman Langroudi: That was a big step, right?
Rhona/Talitha: It was a big step. Yeah. It [00:26:00] still.
Payman Langroudi: Made you do that.
Rhona/Talitha: Because. But also for those that don’t know. So yeah. Telethon [00:26:05] now sells. Yeah. Go through go through that. So we have a product [00:26:10] line now. So we sell the hair. So we sell it in clippings. We sell it in taping [00:26:15] method and we sell it in the keratin bonds. I’m also wholesaling the methods as well so we can [00:26:20] wholesale into other salons. We’re actually starting in Dubai at the moment. Um, [00:26:25] and the reason it was created is purely because every supplier [00:26:30] I was working with just wasn’t quite right. So I [00:26:35] started looking for the hair literally in 2019. I have only just got the hair, by the way, to [00:26:40] the point. Where it’s ready to wholesale. It’s taken years. It’s taken thousands of pounds. [00:26:45] It’s taken lots of breakdowns, loads of tears, loads of giving up. Don’t want to do it. Absolutely [00:26:50] hate it. To get to this point now. And I still feel like we’ve got a long way to go. You know [00:26:55] a lot. But the product side I’m really excited about because obviously that’s how you can start to scale your business. [00:27:00] And again, I’m just always it was never going to be I will never stand still. [00:27:05] I just think that’s the way I am. It’s probably my best quality in business, my [00:27:10] worst quality in home life, because nothing is ever quite enough. [00:27:15] Like I’m always looking for the next thing. But yeah, that’s that’s basically it’s here [00:27:20] that you sell. So sorry. Yes, it’s fair that we sell. We have hairbrushes as well. We have scrunchies, the accessories side, [00:27:25] and we are launching three products next year as well.
Rhona/Talitha: Why did you decide [00:27:30] to transition into that space? What motivated you to transition just because [00:27:35] she never made sense. Yeah. And also it made sense I couldn’t have [00:27:40] I couldn’t get it off a supplier. So I had to create it ourselves. So we created the different hair lines ourselves. [00:27:45] Like the hair I know, I know, it’s I’m talking about hair extensions. Not everybody gets it, but [00:27:50] in every shade of hair extensions it’s like six different colours going through. That’s what makes it look [00:27:55] super natural. Whereas like if it’s not as dimensional, it doesn’t look as natural. And obviously [00:28:00] our whole thing is that it looks really, really natural in your hair. And also, I actually had a fall out with one [00:28:05] of the suppliers when I spoke about this, and she actually I was, you know, we were spending a lot [00:28:10] of money with her, and she dropped me due to somebody coming to work for me that used to work for [00:28:15] her, and that was probably the best thing that happened. I feel like it was the universe. [00:28:20] Obviously at the time it left me in a really difficult, yeah, difficult situation [00:28:25] because our main hair supplier cut us off. Um, but it really forced [00:28:30] me into taking the leap that I needed into putting the money down. [00:28:35] It’s expensive to create your own hair line, right? You can’t just order hair by [00:28:40] the pack. You have to order in the kilogram like kilograms of hair.
Payman Langroudi: And are you selling direct to [00:28:45] consumers as well as to salons?
Rhona/Talitha: So we sell online as well. So that book just for [00:28:50] clippings and tapes. So these are things that they can take to the hairdresser or do themselves at home. [00:28:55] Because I’m aware that not everyone can get to Chelsea. Right. Not everyone can come to Chelsea.
Payman Langroudi: Different skill. [00:29:00] Right?
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, exactly.
Payman Langroudi: I mean, what are you doing to address that? Are you. So you’re now getting good at ecom [00:29:05] and. Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: Or did you get a team? I got a team to do the website. I [00:29:10] am really trying my hardest to get my head around it, but I enjoy [00:29:15] Shopify because I like Shopify is pretty easy, right. And if you’ve used it, it’s [00:29:20] yeah, it’s pretty basic. So I can I can wrap my head around that. I’m still terrible [00:29:25] on e-commerce and all these kind of things. I need to get better. Yeah. But, um, yeah, it’s a different side of [00:29:30] the business. And again, it’s all pretty new. The products have only just launched within the past like two, two and a half [00:29:35] months. So yeah. Yeah. Right at the beginning. Yeah. We’ve had the products to sell directly [00:29:40] to our clients in salon for over a year, but I didn’t want to take them online [00:29:45] until we, you know, one.
Payman Langroudi: Big difference between products and services, yeah, [00:29:50] is that services can be profitable immediately. Products very rare that [00:29:55] they’re profitable in the first place.
Rhona/Talitha: He used to be a dentist. He gave up dentistry and he did you what? Whitening [00:30:00] systems like whitening. I would love to use your whitening. I don’t use any. I haven’t whiten my teeth in about two years. [00:30:05] Enlighten is the one to Payman Owens enlighten. Amazing.
Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but but but [00:30:10] my point is that with products. Yeah. If you’re not profitable for [00:30:15] three four years, really? That’s normal.
Rhona/Talitha: Well I was I’ve always had services.
Payman Langroudi: It’s [00:30:20] very unlikely. And for services you.
Rhona/Talitha: Tend to be.
Payman Langroudi: Profitable in the first year you know. [00:30:25]
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah I had this image because I’m obviously very naive in this [00:30:30] world that I would, you know, launch them online and ding dong. Yeah yeah [00:30:35] yeah yeah. So I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. What do you mean sorry? Why are they just sat online [00:30:40] like we’ve done a few posts. What’s happening here. Let me just start to get some traction. Actually [00:30:45] the last week was brilliant. We’ve just got loads of traction from American. I just don’t know why nothing was [00:30:50] said. Nothing was done that I can see on social. And yet most of our clients that are buying [00:30:55] online are literally 70% is from the US.
Payman Langroudi: Oh, crazy.
Rhona/Talitha: It’s [00:31:00] really, really interesting. I want to ask you though. What is [00:31:05] your home life situation? Yes, because this is one of the most [00:31:10] important things for me to understand. Like, obviously I see a strong, empowered boss woman [00:31:15] here in front of me and you know, you, from what I understand, were working day [00:31:20] and night. So when you first met your partner, was that challenging on the relationship? [00:31:25] Was it also difficult for you to like ease into a space where [00:31:30] you, you know, are trusting somebody or giving to a relationship, you know, how [00:31:35] did you navigate through that? So when I met my partner, I was still working in Selfridges. [00:31:40] So it was a different, different kind of job. I’m lucky that he’s really [00:31:45] supportive. He’s obviously now my husband. Um, and he also is works hard, [00:31:50] right? He’s not always he’s he’s busy as well, which helps. When [00:31:55] I left to start up the business, I think the biggest thing, rather than me being [00:32:00] so busy day and night, the biggest thing that you had the problem of is probably just the constant meltdowns [00:32:05] that you had to support me through. And like, I mean, making the right decision. What am I doing? [00:32:10] And I think, you know, he has definitely I’ve never said this to him, my God. So when he listens to [00:32:15] this podcast, I’m sure you listen to his podcast. Like, I probably couldn’t have done it without him. Like [00:32:20] he was such a support. No, but I think it’s really important that you have [00:32:25] some kind of support. You have that right. And he was just a stable person that I could [00:32:30] just have those meltdowns to constantly. But ideas off before [00:32:35] that, did you find that you weren’t having those sorts of interactions and relationships for [00:32:40] sure. Yeah, yeah. And also, yeah, just a completely different relationship I [00:32:45] can’t are you married him?
Payman Langroudi: Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, exactly. That’s why I’m married though. So like, I know it sounds weird, but I [00:32:50] also can’t really remember not being with him. We’ve been together almost ten years. Yeah, well it’s quite. We’ve been together almost a decade. [00:32:55] It’s been quite a while. Obviously been with a few shockers before him. [00:33:00] We’ll have to go through them. We all have to. Yeah. And I can’t imagine being with them. And I tried to set up my business. I probably, maybe [00:33:05] wouldn’t have even tried to sell my business, because maybe they were putting me in a place where I wouldn’t have felt confident. Yeah. [00:33:10] You know. Yeah. Whereas he’s always treated me so well or he’s believed in me. And I think that’s a really important thing. [00:33:15] My mum as well, my mum is such a solid and she’s amazing. And I always say [00:33:20] when I obviously I don’t have a relationship with my dad and I always said I, I’m sure [00:33:25] obviously I’m affected by it, but I never feel like I am because she’s such a solid. Yeah, she’s such a [00:33:30] she feels like both. Yeah. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Payman Langroudi: My hair. But what about the juggle [00:33:35] with kids. Yes.
Rhona/Talitha: Well we’re going to get on to that. So. So the relationship was solid from the start. [00:33:40] Yeah. You felt that he could support your visions and your dreams which is great. And [00:33:45] the breakdowns can totally relate to that sort of relationship. But yeah. [00:33:50] How did you ease into motherhood? Let’s talk about that, because I feel like people don’t [00:33:55] really talk about that side of things. I my. I got pregnant with my [00:34:00] first son, Jagger. He’s three now. So we had him we got pregnant with him in lockdown. So [00:34:05] lockdown babies, lockdown babies. Everyone loved having a baby like that, which [00:34:10] I now look back on again. And I know obviously so many people had a terrible time, so I obviously [00:34:15] wanted careful what I say, but for me with the lockdown, because obviously I had Jagger and [00:34:20] it was a time that I was at home. Everyone was kind of at home. It was actually probably [00:34:25] the perfect time to have. Yeah, I know that. I don’t want to speak out of turn, but it was perfect for [00:34:30] us because. I didn’t have the pressure of work. Of course, I had the pressure of [00:34:35] not being open, but I didn’t have the pressure of work, which I just had with my daughter. So it was almost like your maternity [00:34:40] leave, basically. Yeah, exactly. And and actually, so we reopened. [00:34:45] Jagger was born in January. We reopened in the April 21st. [00:34:50]
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, it must have been. Right. So we fully reopened in April 21st. And I was back then, so [00:34:55] I’d had January, February, March, I’d had like that time off with him where I didn’t have to feel guilty. [00:35:00] For me. It’s a guilt thing, right? I didn’t have to feel guilty about not being in the business or not being [00:35:05] present in the business. I could just enjoy my baby. Whereas it was a very different scenario with my daughter. [00:35:10] Now, Sloane, who’s eight months old, we were literally doing [00:35:15] photo shoots when I was nine months for the products. Wow. We were like staffed down. [00:35:20] I was interviewing like a maniac, like out here about to pop, afraid my water [00:35:25] break at any point. We were in negotiations with Dubai about all sorts. Things like [00:35:30] deals were dropping. It was a very stressful time, and we’re in the process [00:35:35] of creating some products that we have to constantly be speaking to different factories about. And I [00:35:40] remember being on a call, a zoom call two days after Sloane was born, and I was late to [00:35:45] the zoom, and I was like, I’m so sorry, I’ve just had a baby. And they were like, okay, but you know, we need an answer. And [00:35:50] I was like, wow. Um, yeah. They didn’t care. Like, we talk about [00:35:55] this sort of stuff all the time, though, that like, there was a we had a female dentist as well that was [00:36:00] freaking out because they wanted to do, I think, um, caesarean.
Rhona/Talitha: And she [00:36:05] said, I have to be back at work like in two weeks, like, no, it’s not an option. And even though I like [00:36:10] dental chairs are like designed and things like this, like, you know, there are still, I think, so much [00:36:15] to understand about what women need, you know, during this time. So [00:36:20] it’s really difficult. It’s really listen, I struggle with this juggle with two children [00:36:25] for sure. I find it really hard. Also, Sloane is at an age where technically it [00:36:30] would be very normal for me not to be working at this point. She’s. Yeah. So people do take years off. I mean, I [00:36:35] couldn’t, you know, of course they take a year off and they’re perfectly entitled [00:36:40] to do so. But I barely had any time off since she’s been born. And then [00:36:45] the guilt of not being with her is bad. But the, the guilt when I’m [00:36:50] with my business that it needs, you know, I need to be with the business. I have to focus on the business. I [00:36:55] have the guilt of not being with the children. When I’m with the children, I have the guilt about what’s going on in the business, [00:37:00] and I. I feel that all the time. It’s really what gives. What [00:37:05] gives? Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: The relationship. Right?
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah, absolutely.
Payman Langroudi: Yeah. It’s not going to be the kid [00:37:10] of the business.
Rhona/Talitha: The only thing I have with it. Well honestly at times, sometimes I think is it worth [00:37:15] it? But you know, it is. The baby was my first baby was my business. Yeah, I believe [00:37:20] in it. I believe in what I’m trying to create here. And [00:37:25] that’s ultimately what will keep me going. Yeah. And I also just try and be really [00:37:30] present with the kids when I am with them.
Payman Langroudi: When you are with them. Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: A [00:37:35] really important I put my phone away. Good. And literally I’ll do that and [00:37:40] I’ll put it on the other side of the room because I’m too distracted. My phone doesn’t stop. You’ll know yourself, your phone doesn’t stop. Right. And there’s always something. [00:37:45] There is always something. So I’ll just put it away. So when I’m with them, [00:37:50] I’m with them. And also I of course have helped. She’s eight months old, right? But I [00:37:55] don’t. I spend at least an hour and a half with her in the morning and then set on my day. So [00:38:00] I’ve spent that with her, dropped him off at nursery and then on to work. I go and [00:38:05] it’s not for everyone. Definitely not for everyone. It’s hard. [00:38:10] But also, I feel like society kind of puts you in a box sometimes of like, you’re this [00:38:15] mum and you’re this amazing mum that’s at home with your children. You want to be, you know, you’re [00:38:20] just with your children. You’re the best mom ever because you’re always present or you’re working, [00:38:25] right. You’re one or the other. And it’s like, actually, you can be both. Like, I [00:38:30] really enjoy my children, I enjoy motherhood, but I also really like to work [00:38:35] and like to do all things. I think one of the scariest thing that’s happening online, particularly, is [00:38:40] that we’re having extremist views, like things have become so polarising. Recently [00:38:45] I posted about that NFL player Hunter. Did you see that whole [00:38:50] controversy? Here’s this NFL player and he went to a school [00:38:55] graduation, a female school graduation. And he was like, I want to congratulate you on your like whatever. [00:39:00] And he’s like one of the biggest lies that you’ve ever been told is [00:39:05] that, like, motherhood is actually the most important thing that you’ll ever do. Pretty much. Okay. [00:39:10] And that’s the kind of the lines. He’s super Christian. So like there was definitely this, um, sense of him, [00:39:15] you know, like talking about Christianity and that rhetoric. However, [00:39:20] obviously it riled up a lot of women because essentially.
Payman Langroudi: What was his point?
Rhona/Talitha: He [00:39:25] was he was basically like motherhood and having kids is way more important. And the biggest lie that you’re ever told is that, like [00:39:30] education and being successful is. Oh, so he was actually sticking up for mum? [00:39:35] Yes. Correct. And I just feel like again, we’re having this polarised. And it was really interesting because I was like, what [00:39:40] do you guys think? I talked about it on my social media. And a couple of dentists actually [00:39:45] had also said to me, like, I think that he’s really valid. Me and my partner have talked [00:39:50] about it, and I actually think that, you know, you can’t do it all. Like someone has to be the caretaker [00:39:55] of the children and someone has to be the provider. Now like that, that’s [00:40:00] fine. I understand, and a lot of women in the comments obviously were riled up. They were like, what? So you expect me not [00:40:05] to have an education and like, wait for a prince to just turn up on my door? And then I obviously made [00:40:10] the point that was, you know, imagine if you are in an abusive relationship and you don’t have any qualifications or education. [00:40:15] You can’t get out of the situation because you’ve not got this. Anyways, my point is, is that [00:40:20] again, like everything on social media, everything has become so polarised. It’s [00:40:25] either you’re the perfect mum and you’re at home, or you’re the boss woman. And it’s like there’s these like polarised [00:40:30] categories.
Payman Langroudi: Social media to one side. Yeah, right.
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah.
Payman Langroudi: Starting and running [00:40:35] and making a business successful. Yeah. Is a massive sacrifice. Yeah, [00:40:40] yeah. Whoever you are. Yeah. You could be a mum. As a mum, it’s even harder because [00:40:45] you’ve got that massive guilt thing. But yeah, let’s say you’re not a mum. Let’s say you’re not even a dad. [00:40:50] Let’s say you’re just a single guy. Yeah. You won’t, you will not see your family as much as. Yeah, you’re [00:40:55] going to miss birthdays. You know, it’s it’s that kind of. It’s like being in the army or something. Yeah. [00:41:00] It has its upside, but it has its downside. Yeah. And we’ve got to, we’ve got to just be open with [00:41:05] that. Yeah. That your kids will miss out on you a little bit. They will. [00:41:10] It’s going to.
Rhona/Talitha: Give their you know.
Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And they’ll learn. Yeah. If I watch my mum create [00:41:15] an empire. Yeah. Like if you put one of these salons in every capital city [00:41:20] or something. Yeah, well I’ve learnt massive things just by being around you.
Rhona/Talitha: This is what my husband says [00:41:25] to me. Yeah. He literally says the same. He’s like, one day they’re going to look at you and be like, wow, look at my mum’s. [00:41:30] Done. Um, so let’s hope. How did your.
Payman Langroudi: Mum was your mum working when you were growing up? [00:41:35]
Rhona/Talitha: She was working, but she’s not entrepreneurial, like, um, I that’s not even a main thing. She [00:41:40] isn’t. You know, she just worked hard. She worked hard to put us through education. So. Yeah. [00:41:45] Really different. The one thing I will say as well about having kids is obviously I started my business pre-kids, [00:41:50] so probably took a lot more risks because there was a lot less to risk. There [00:41:55] was a lot less risk to have. Whereas now things obviously, you [00:42:00] know, I have to try and make things work and make sensible decisions because we have a family. [00:42:05] I think that’s what a lot of people struggle with. Right? Like, you know, you hear people and often [00:42:10] I go back to the deathbed situation and, you know, they they did. A [00:42:15] nurse talked about how people had their deathbed regrets about their life. And I think [00:42:20] one of the most difficult thing is like, if you’re somebody, for example, that worked in finance or a corporate job and then it [00:42:25] you ever wanted to try something, but you’ve got family to look after. Like it’s so difficult, [00:42:30] like to kind of be like, right, I’m sucking off my 100 K salary to try something, and I [00:42:35] have no idea if it’s going to work. It’s a really difficult thing, and I think the younger you take [00:42:40] the risks or miss, the better, dare I say for sure, I think so, right? And I think [00:42:45] that anyone it takes balls right, to be able to do that, whoever you are, whatever age you are. But [00:42:50] if it pays off, it pays off.
Rhona/Talitha: And I just think there’s nothing better than something working [00:42:55] out when you put the work into it. Honestly, anything that’s been successful in my life and I know [00:43:00] that we’ve worked so hard for, it’s so much more enjoyable. Yeah. Like, it’s back to your [00:43:05] point as well. If you were given something, it’s you’re never going to look at it the same, are you. So [00:43:10] you’ve earned it. Yeah. I do think pain is necessary sometimes. And pain [00:43:15] discomfort is the thing that really gets you into growth. You know, someone [00:43:20] once said to me, A comfortable or okay situation [00:43:25] is much worse than a really difficult situation, because if it’s easy for [00:43:30] you to just be in that situation where it’s just, okay, it’s not awful, it’s not amazing, yeah, you’re going to stick at it. Whereas [00:43:35] if you have something that causes you incredible pain, it forces you to grow. And I think it is really [00:43:40] important, you know, in some way I don’t wish pain upon my [00:43:45] life. But now I understand that it’s a part of the necessary journey to get me [00:43:50] to where I need to be regardless. Driver. Exactly, exactly. So speaking [00:43:55] of which, though, what was your lowest point in [00:44:00] the last ten years? Um, [00:44:05] that you felt that you were struggling. I think [00:44:10] when I moved initially, when I moved to London, I was doing the corporate role. I felt very [00:44:15] like I was on a hamster wheel. I felt like I was, you know, I had all these teams. [00:44:20] I was under immense pressure. I mean, I’m under pressure now, but the pressure that I was, it’s intensified. [00:44:25]
Rhona/Talitha: They call Selfridges the Beast and he would like. It’s a known thing. You’re working really [00:44:30] long hours and you’re under incredible pressure for, let’s face it, not much money. Yeah. [00:44:35] And I was head to toe in psoriasis at the time. Wow. Literally from stress [00:44:40] head? Yeah. From stress. I still suffer with it now, but very like. It’s like it’s [00:44:45] under I manage it. I just felt like I had no social life because I was just [00:44:50] always exhausted. But I was this young girl trying to work all the time. When [00:44:55] I went out, I was meeting the wrong people, drinking too much when I went out, probably because I was [00:45:00] just trying to mask the fact that I just wasn’t happy. But equally, I’d moved to London. I’d left a relationship [00:45:05] that nobody could understand why I left as I went back up north, up north, I suppose. The guy for a long time, [00:45:10] his family were very successful. He was very successful. He’d have married me. If I’d have done that, [00:45:15] I would have had a very nice life, till to this day would have had a very nice life. It just wasn’t enough. And [00:45:20] I just knew I had this point to prove. I couldn’t go home. And [00:45:25] I was just really unhappy and felt really lonely and moved to London with [00:45:30] one of my closest friends, and she met somebody and got pregnant within six months. So then I [00:45:35] had to change a lot of my friends now, really. And then I always had to live with somebody that I didn’t know.
Rhona/Talitha: So again, I was [00:45:40] just lonely. And then I actually, like we said about the therapist, I started speaking to this therapist and [00:45:45] did a lot of inner child work. Then within six months I met my husband. Oh wow. But I think you have to do that work [00:45:50] first. Yeah. So do you feel because you had those pain points quite early on that now when [00:45:55] you have challenges, it rarely affects your mental health, if that makes sense. Because you understand [00:46:00] the triggers. Yeah. So you can like even if you’ve got something at work [00:46:05] that triggers you or something with your kids like you, you understand how to manage it. Now [00:46:10] because so many years ago you had understood. Yeah, all [00:46:15] those different things. Listen, I’ll still go through times I like I said, I, I have [00:46:20] found it after having Sloan like not so much with my son, but after my daughter, [00:46:25] I even found social media really intense. Like being on there. Because [00:46:30] I always say one of my favourite sayings is comparison is the thief of joy. But you can’t help [00:46:35] it. Especially like when you feel like you almost have an out-of-body experience. When you have a child, [00:46:40] you don’t really recognise yourself because you don’t look like yourself. It looks [00:46:45] on social media like everybody is doing so incredibly well. Yeah, yeah, you feel [00:46:50] like you’re not. Listen, if ten of people looked at my social media, it looks like I’ve had this amazing baby. [00:46:55] You know, she’s beautiful. I’m running a business. No one knows what’s going on behind social media.
Payman Langroudi: But [00:47:00] is there a loss of identity in becoming a mother? Must be right. There must be [00:47:05] an element of that.
Rhona/Talitha: I just, I just yeah, I [00:47:10] would say that I did struggle with, like I said, with the social side of things and the comparison [00:47:15] side of things, but. Equally. I do always try and bring myself back to [00:47:20] one. I’m very lucky to have healthy children and amazing children. And yeah, the identity thing. I [00:47:25] would just say that you become a little bit more. For me personally. I’m not saying you have to be a [00:47:30] mother to be empathetic at all, but like for me, I just found myself being a lot more empathetic, a lot [00:47:35] more patient because you have to be with children, which I had zero patience before. [00:47:40] I mean, my patience isn’t great now, but it’s better.
Payman Langroudi: I think. I agree with you, it makes you a better person, [00:47:45] but I think it’s.
Rhona/Talitha: Unfair to say, yeah, I think it’s fair to say because, listen, not everyone’s [00:47:50] going to have kids. It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it makes you for me. It’s taught [00:47:55] me those things. I’m more empathetic. And also I don’t sweat the small stuff as much because [00:48:00] of the children. Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, at the end [00:48:05] of the day, everybody’s experiences are different. And like you said, some people may [00:48:10] choose, may not choose. I think the nuanced way of thinking is [00:48:15] so, so important in the world that we live in today. And I think it’s recognising that [00:48:20] mothers will have struggles. And if you do want to be a stay at home mom, you be a stay at home mom, right? If [00:48:25] you want to be a boss girl that doesn’t want to have children, that’s your choice too. If you want to do a bit of both, [00:48:30] which I’m hearing that you do, and I’d like to do eventually, that’s cool too. [00:48:35] I think what we’ve got to recognise is, is that it’s not one fits all. Yeah. And [00:48:40] I get it. Like women are biologically programmed to have children, [00:48:45] as it were. But not all women can have children either. Exactly. You know, whether or not they’ve been gifted that. So [00:48:50] I think it’s it’s really, really important. And the social media thing, [00:48:55] I think the whole like sort of mummy influencers or all of the stuff around [00:49:00] motherhood, I think it’s difficult, even me, who’s not a mother yet.
Rhona/Talitha: I look at [00:49:05] that stuff and like you say, I’m like, how are they doing it all? And there’s so much on there that I think can be quite overwhelming [00:49:10] if people don’t show the real behind the scenes, because there are behind the scenes of everything. Of course, [00:49:15] it’s a struggle. It is a struggle for most mum, most mums, of [00:49:20] course, people just take to it. But I am a really good mum. I am like, I can’t say [00:49:25] that because I am but I struggle of course and sometimes, you know, like when everything’s [00:49:30] going on with the business, one of the kids is sick and you know you’re torn and it is just constant, [00:49:35] but you’ve just got to ride that wave. They’re not always going to be this little. Yeah. So I just have to try and enjoy it, do [00:49:40] the best I can and that’s all I can see really. So tell me a little [00:49:45] bit about the Princess Trust and your involvement with them. So we recently [00:49:50] did an event with them, which was amazing. And with my client now friend Stacey Gololo, [00:49:55] who has Galileo Italia, which is an amazing brand. And she actually came to me with the Princess [00:50:00] Trust as a charity to support women supporting International Women’s Day. But they have [00:50:05] an amazing program and Women supporting women, where they actually [00:50:10] empower young girls from all kinds of different backgrounds, [00:50:15] underprivileged backgrounds, if you like.
Rhona/Talitha: And they help put them into job [00:50:20] roles, they help educate. They do all sorts. So yeah, I’ve just [00:50:25] started working with them now and we are going to be taking on somebody to help within the salon. [00:50:30] And again, it’s just such a small thing for me to be able to do, but it’s so nice to be able to work [00:50:35] with such an incredible charity. I love that so much. But tell us about how they’ve been working with you [00:50:40] as well. Sending the girls. Yes. So the girls will come into the salon [00:50:45] and then you’re asking kind of like, what? What does that mean? Like what? And I was like, well, anybody [00:50:50] that’s reached out to the Princess Trust first, please, because they want to make a change within their lives. So these are people [00:50:55] who really want to make a change, haven’t had privilege necessarily privilege. And they want to learn [00:51:00] this isn’t going to be their job forever in the salon, but they just want work experience. So that’s what we’re [00:51:05] able to offer I love that, I wish we could do that in dentistry. Imagine maybe you get nurses like [00:51:10] nurses and things like that. But but you have to like training nurses and all that stuff [00:51:15] is you could potentially do it as a receptionist. Really like that. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. [00:51:20]
Payman Langroudi: If, if you could, if I had like a magic wand and I [00:51:25] can you could, you can for your business in the next sort of five years, [00:51:30] what would be your sort of dream outcome. What are you looking to do. Are you looking to have [00:51:35] more salons or.
Rhona/Talitha: Manifest it here? Yeah, let’s manifest it when you say it comes true. Um, [00:51:40] actually, having more salons is actually not on my radar because I want to wholesale [00:51:45] to salons. So wholesaling out the hair into LA, New [00:51:50] York, Dubai, Abu Dhabi would be definitely be within the next five years. More states for [00:51:55] sure. In America, potentially another salon. I’m just going to put it out there. Why not? [00:52:00] And, um, if it’s a magic wand. Yeah. And then the products [00:52:05] that we’re bringing out were actually in talks with really exciting buyers. So it would be to be I can’t I’m [00:52:10] under NDA about the products, but that they would be stocked in these dream stores [00:52:15] around the world. One being in America, one being in Australia, and that [00:52:20] it’s very, very successful. And I’m still loving what I’m doing and we’re [00:52:25] constantly evolving. And that would be really the dream. The dream? Yeah. [00:52:30] And you wanna tell us any more about Dubai? Yes. So Dubai. I [00:52:35] recently just got back and can you believe we were there when that my whole work week was there when the floods were [00:52:40] happening. Oh gosh, I know. So that was tricky because I’d actually, uh, [00:52:45] me and my husband were like, we really need a holiday. So we were going to work. He has an office over in Dubai while his [00:52:50] company has an office. So we’re going to work the first week. Second week we’re on holiday and we we got hit with [00:52:55] the floods on the first week.
Rhona/Talitha: So we ended up working our whole holiday in the second week. That’s what I mean. Things always [00:53:00] happen, right? We’re supposed to spend it with the kids. And like every morning I was out by half. Seven missed breakfast most [00:53:05] days, didn’t see the kids till 3 p.m. on our holiday. But anyway, whatever. So yeah, [00:53:10] when we’re when I was over there, I was originally supposed to do a pop up. But, you know, I always think things always [00:53:15] happen for a reason. I always believe in my gut. And I just didn’t feel right. I changed things last minute and moved it to [00:53:20] September. And actually, it would have been the week of the floods. Oh my gosh, I know. [00:53:25] So actually that was amazing. But while I was out there, I had meetings with, um, different salons and it’s all just [00:53:30] about wholesaling the hair into their salons. So that’s all in negotiate final negotiation stages. [00:53:35] Now one of the salons is incredible. They have 30 salons in Dubai in UAE. So that [00:53:40] means our hair will be able to be available to them. We’re doing a pop up in Atlantis The Royal in September. [00:53:45] So yeah, that’s that’s kind of the amazing. And the whole family came out with you whole [00:53:50] fam came. Love it. Yeah. That’s how you take the tribe. You never say anything still.
Payman Langroudi: Right. [00:53:55] You go Liverpool. London. Virgin suffragette. Sally, what do you [00:54:00] reckon is the sort of the driver. How how did this come about?
Rhona/Talitha: The driver for just not [00:54:05] standing still.
Payman Langroudi: Yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: Do you just think it’s in you I think [00:54:10] is it just. Do you hate it when you have to stand still? I was just about to say I actually [00:54:15] really enjoy a night in on my own and sometimes being in silence, which I [00:54:20] couldn’t do years ago when we were talking about that stage when I worked in Selfridges, I could never be on my own. I [00:54:25] used to literally have panic attack anxiety. I would really struggle to be on my own, be in my own head. [00:54:30] I enjoy time on my own now because I enjoy the quiet. But I even [00:54:35] if I’m on a night on my own, I’m always thinking, planning what’s next. And I don’t know, [00:54:40] I think is it just my personality? I’m the same. I’ve started crying on Saturday because I was like in [00:54:45] and reading a book, and I said to my partner, I was like, I hate this. And he was like, you need to [00:54:50] find joy in things that you don’t feel like you’re being productive. And sometimes I can get really stuck [00:54:55] into, like a Netflix series, you know, like I watch Baby Reindeer and I finish, like, every episode, you know, [00:55:00] like, I can and like, I, you know, I really hate it when people are like, oh, I don’t watch television. [00:55:05] It’s a waste of time. I’m like, no, because actually I learn loads from like documentaries and films [00:55:10] and things like that. And I, I actually think it can be a really nice way to escape as well. You know, [00:55:15] it’s a switch off. Yeah. Exactly. To switch off is it.
Payman Langroudi: But is it some sort of like ADHD [00:55:20] trait? Do you know.
Rhona/Talitha: What I actually have done? Like a few online quizzes to see if I have ADHD? [00:55:25] Because I am sure I do. It’s obviously a lot more common than we think [00:55:30] maybe. And also we think of like, I think sometimes when you think of ADHD, you think of the extremes, right? Whereas most [00:55:35] people probably have some aspect of ADHD within them. I don’t know, maybe I should go and be diagnosed. [00:55:40] Yeah. But I think I think also I mean, ultimately I had a chat with my therapist [00:55:45] and she’s just referred me to be checked because she was like, I just think you do have ADHD and a lot of my friends do. But [00:55:50] it’s, you know, they say that on the one hand, it makes people really successful because [00:55:55] I think when when I thought of ADHD like ten years ago, 15 years ago, I think of those really hyper children I was going to [00:56:00] say having done like really climbing up the walls.
Payman Langroudi: But it’s being this thing [00:56:05] being her biggest strength and her biggest weakness. I think it’s really insightful, you know? Yeah. [00:56:10]
Rhona/Talitha: Personal life. Not great business. Great. Yeah. And that’s and I think [00:56:15] that’s the thing like they they talk exactly about that that you can multitask, get stuff done, [00:56:20] etc.. But it’s in the personal life that it can become more difficult. So it is really [00:56:25] interesting. Um, is.
Payman Langroudi: There an aspect of your business that you hate?
Rhona/Talitha: Aecom. [00:56:30] Yeah, I mean, I listen, [00:56:35] there’s this isn’t there’s no way.
Payman Langroudi: Yeah, yeah, [00:56:40] I think there’s to hire a person to do that. Exactly.
Rhona/Talitha: Me too. I [00:56:45] hire people for the things obviously I’m not good at, and that’s obviously just a smart way to do things.
Payman Langroudi: So what do you think [00:56:50] you’re not good at?
Rhona/Talitha: I’m really not good at numbers. Figures. Me too. Me too, [00:56:55] me too. Um. Me too. I just got because that’s not the way our brain works. Yeah, because we have [00:57:00] ADHD. Yeah, I literally, literally, I hate it, I know I do it, I can’t do it. [00:57:05] And even like the accounts at the end of the year, now I give them the accounts were like sitting there and it’s like your [00:57:10] head’s like, oh my God, I’m so overwhelmed. I would literally rather do anything else. I have to speak to my accountant, actually, [00:57:15] when I get out of here and we’re running through a few things and I’m already, like, overwhelmed. [00:57:20] Yeah, I just don’t want to even the thought of it. It’s just not where I comfortably sit. My husband [00:57:25] comfortably sits there. He deals with my guys. Exactly. Finance. Right. Exactly.
Payman Langroudi: He’s in finance. [00:57:30]
Rhona/Talitha: He’s in finance. So I can sometimes send him things and he’ll break it down. Like [00:57:35] he really helps with that aspect. But yeah, I absolutely hate those side of things. But of course it’s important you’re running [00:57:40] a business. You need to kind of know where the figures are at. So it’s somewhat important. Yeah. I [00:57:45] think at the end of the day, if you are an entrepreneur that sits more in the creative space like you [00:57:50] and I do, marketing also is like, you know, the thing that I love, you need [00:57:55] people on your team who trust, and you need people that can help you make those decisions. And I think it’s not [00:58:00] about trying to put the pressure on yourself to be 100% amazing at every single aspect. [00:58:05] Yeah, I definitely I’ve actually just heard well, she’s been here a year now. I’ve got an amazing manager of the salon. [00:58:10] Her name’s Brooke, she’s from Australia and she’s incredible. And actually she we were talking you you touched [00:58:15] on it before about being lonely when, you know, start the job. And sometimes I feel very like [00:58:20] founder. Loneliness is a thing. I feel like I have all these decisions on me.
Rhona/Talitha: If [00:58:25] I don’t make a decision, who else is going to make a decision? If this doesn’t work, it’s not on anybody else but me. I’ve got to pay [00:58:30] all these people da da da da da. And but she’s actually been a real pillar of strength in me bouncing ideas off. [00:58:35] And it’s actually been amazing. And I really value her opinion. So she’s been really good, actually [00:58:40] for the business and good for my sanity as well. And sometimes when I go to pull out of things because I’m too overwhelmed, she’s [00:58:45] like, no, you need to do this because of X, Y, and Z. And she’s made me go forward with [00:58:50] things which I’m so glad I’ve got. Question for you. Yeah. One of the last questions. Yeah. Do you find it difficult [00:58:55] to be vulnerable? I feel like I’ve been quite vulnerable in this podcast. Yeah, yeah, [00:59:00] and you have. But do you feel like you find it difficult to be vulnerable at work or at home? Yeah. [00:59:05] Interesting. Yeah. You stopped me in my tracks. Yeah, [00:59:10] yeah, I think I.
Payman Langroudi: Think that’s weakness. It.
Rhona/Talitha: Do you see it as weakness, or do [00:59:15] you fear like.
Payman Langroudi: I feel like you see it as strength.
Rhona/Talitha: I see it as strength. It is the moment [00:59:20] that I. I will be that person that will break down at work. Will you? And I will be that person [00:59:25] that will cry and ask for help. And I feel that [00:59:30] sometimes I feel judgement and sometimes I recognise how backward it is. But I [00:59:35] also think that we’re all human beings, and shared experience of vulnerability is almost a [00:59:40] superpower, and shared experience of vulnerability makes people know and understand [00:59:45] that we are human. Yeah. Will everyone understand it? No. Will everyone break [00:59:50] down their walls? No. But I think that the old school notion of, you know, just [00:59:55] there’s no such thing as depression, there’s no such thing as anxiety. Just get on with it, okay? Sure. You know, [01:00:00] my parents grew up in the Middle East, war torn countries. I don’t think they had time to be depressed, you [01:00:05] know? But I think that there is something to be said for these shared experiences. [01:00:10] I think it’s amazing that you can do that. Yeah, for sure. And that’s exactly how [01:00:15] everybody should be. It’s not the way that I am. And sometimes I felt like I was carrying [01:00:20] the weight of the world on my shoulders. My daughter actually went through a really awful time [01:00:25] when she was very young, like ten weeks old. She was in intensive care unit. Sorry. And [01:00:30] she’s absolutely fine now. Perfect health. But like, you know, it’s a very challenging time and I still like a week later I was coming to [01:00:35] work facing work. And I was really traumatised obviously by the whole experience. And I sometimes [01:00:40] I felt like I was there, but I wasn’t present, like people were talking, but I couldn’t. I couldn’t take [01:00:45] it in. And then I just walk out of like a zombie and they God knows what my team or anyone thought of me [01:00:50] at the time like, but I never shared with them until later. I find it very hard [01:00:55] to talk about. I’ve never really even talked about this, because I find it very hard to talk about very difficult situations [01:01:00] whilst they’re happening. Yeah, I just won’t do it.
Payman Langroudi: Process.
Rhona/Talitha: First I have to process. [01:01:05] I do that usually alone. Alone. Yeah, but that’s okay. You know, [01:01:10] people process things in different ways. You know, I’m interested.
Payman Langroudi: In one other thing. Um, you know, both [01:01:15] of you are in the business of cosmetics, right? And, and we know as [01:01:20] dentists, one of the worst situations is you stick all the stuff on, the person says [01:01:25] love, it goes home, and then someone says something, and then they come back and.
Rhona/Talitha: Come back, and my partner doesn’t like [01:01:30] them. And then they.
Payman Langroudi: Say, I hate it. Yeah, yeah. And with us, it’s actually quite damaging now to remove [01:01:35] all this stuff, let alone let alone costly. Yeah. For everyone. Yeah. But damaging. But [01:01:40] you must have had some. And we sometimes call that a body dysmorphia thing where the person’s [01:01:45] sort of got a problem and they think fixing the teeth will fix that problem. You must come to a point.
Rhona/Talitha: Actually. [01:01:50] Yeah. I’ve never looked at it like that.
Payman Langroudi: It must come across that sort of situation with women in hair, right?
Rhona/Talitha: Yeah. Listen, [01:01:55] we work with all, you know, all sorts of people, all sorts of people. And of course, we’ve had [01:02:00] that happen. And I think I just have to call it at the end of the day, is it worth the brand [01:02:05] damage and what she’s going to go around saying about us saying about the hair extensions, saying [01:02:10] about everything the Google reviews, the da da da. Do we just take it, [01:02:15] take the hit, take them out, refund, walk away. It’s a lesson learnt, both [01:02:20] sides. That’s usually what I’ll do. And what will really do is to try. [01:02:25] And I’m sure you’re the exact same both of you. Like, you know, we’ll really try and safeguard that. As in like we have [01:02:30] a very strict process now and they have to sign saying say they [01:02:35] are happy this is not coming out the head. Yeah. Because they are very happy [01:02:40] to pay this amount. And now it’s very rarely happened since we’ve put that [01:02:45] we’ve we’ve actually now implemented a no refund policy. I had a very yeah [01:02:50] I’ll tell you what happened. I had a girl come in. Um, uh, God. Six, seven [01:02:55] months ago, her teeth were really in a bad, bad state. Like, really bad falling apart, like [01:03:00] bonding. Um, we talked about it, everything, etc.. Then she decided [01:03:05] to have her. So she was happy to go ahead with the treatment plan. And [01:03:10] she was really weird on the day. I was getting a bit of a bad vibe off her, so I made sure [01:03:15] to make like really like copious notes about what she had wanted with her teeth. And [01:03:20] like halfway through the appointment, she was like, oh, can I have anaesthetic? [01:03:25] Like raise the hand? And I was like, okay, yeah, of course, even though I’d offered her before, she didn’t want it.
Rhona/Talitha: And then [01:03:30] when I showed her the mirror, she was like, oh yeah, they look nice. And then she went upstairs. Five minutes later [01:03:35] my receptionist messaged me saying, X patient is not happy. So I ran upstairs and I was like, I’ve got to bring in [01:03:40] someone. But it’s bonding. You can adjust it, you know, like, so don’t panic. Like it’s not like, you know, it’s an [01:03:45] unadjustable thing. She was like, no, no, no, I think I need to live with it first. And I said, okay, sure. Because I’m numb. I’m [01:03:50] like, that’s fine, live with it. We can always come back and you can always come back in two weeks or whatever. And [01:03:55] then we basically called her a million times to try and review her, [01:04:00] and then she wasn’t coming back and she’d called Amex to take the refund. [01:04:05] We’ve had the exact same thing. And then we disputed [01:04:10] it with Amex. And then she came back. And then eventually my practice manager, my treatment coordinator [01:04:15] were like, if you. Okay, so I decided to call her bluff. I said, if she doesn’t like [01:04:20] it and she wants a refund, I’ll remove all the bonding 100% because if she doesn’t [01:04:25] like it, I can remove it because I’m very minimal with my bonding. It’s not a great big deal. And her teeth underneath weren’t [01:04:30] horrendous. So I was like, that’s fine, I could remove it all if she wants a refund. She refused to [01:04:35] come in and then eventually I just don’t feel comfortable seeing her and I don’t feel comfortable.
Rhona/Talitha: This went on for like months because [01:04:40] I was like, I’m so mortified that this has happened. Eventually we offered her to see like one of my, [01:04:45] like, best cosmetic dentists. He was like, this is a really good like, I can tweak it a bit. She’ll be happy. She [01:04:50] agreed. As soon as she walks in, she’s like, I’m not having anything removed. That’s the first thing. Imagine if you hate something [01:04:55] so much, aren’t you going to be like, get it off? So she spent five minutes in the chair and then left and then still [01:05:00] insisted, insisted, and by the end of it, I just did what you did. I said, you know what? Give her the flipping money [01:05:05] back, I don’t care. But since then we’ve now written a refund policy saying no refunds. [01:05:10] And if you if for bonding and if you want to get a refund, you have to get it removed. I think, you know, [01:05:15] it’s interesting with the Amex thing because we’ve actually had it twice and we had it twice over Christmas. And what happens is [01:05:20] people spend so much money, they panic that they then have to Christmas time. Yeah, it always happens [01:05:25] around Christmas, I swear to you. And it’ll be like they’ve spent all this money and then [01:05:30] they’ve got the teeth done and they’ve got the hair extensions done. It’s over a grand couple grand, whatever. And [01:05:35] they need the money back and they go to Amex. And I have disputed every single one with Amex and I’ve won them. Yeah. [01:05:40] Because I think one key.
Payman Langroudi: Thing though, one key thing that you should both be aware of, is [01:05:45] that it’s not worth ruining the experience for your reasonable [01:05:50] patience, patience and customers because you’re trying to protect from the one that [01:05:55] might be trying to get something over on you. So let me give you an example of that. I’ll be one [01:06:00] guarantee. Yeah, we guarantee results with our product.
Rhona/Talitha: B one is the lightest colour.
Payman Langroudi: Okay. There’s no [01:06:05] way of checking. I mean, you know someone. Yeah. Someone can take two pictures at the beginning. [01:06:10] Send us these two pictures and say it didn’t work, you know, cannot check that. Yeah. On occasion, [01:06:15] several times, three, four times a year. The team say this guy is trying it on. Yeah. [01:06:20] I’m happy for this guy to try it on so that when the, you know, [01:06:25] you, one of my top customers calls me up and say, hey, pay this. This didn’t work this time. But yeah, [01:06:30] the team were like, sort you out. Oh yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: You’re.
Payman Langroudi: Right. You’re important as [01:06:35] a top customer. Yeah. The fact that someone got one over on me isn’t [01:06:40] as painful as it should be. And it’s difficult because you don’t want anyone to get one over you and our sales team, or actually [01:06:45] in touch with the people. They feel it, you know? They feel it. Yeah. This guy thinks he got one [01:06:50] over on me. Yeah, yeah.
Rhona/Talitha: I get you. But I also think, like, it’s important to protect because you [01:06:55] work so hard and you have to remember, like, doing treatments like hair extensions and bond. It’s so much time, [01:07:00] you know, and I get it time and a time and expense. And you also don’t want to develop a reputation [01:07:05] where people think they can constantly do one over you as well. You know, I think that’s important. Now, we’d have to probably bring [01:07:10] you back for part two of like business disputes. But we have run out of time. I just want to thank [01:07:15] you so much, Talitha, for being so honest, open and vulnerable today. You are honestly such an inspiration, [01:07:20] not only an incredible mother, an incredible businesswoman, and I really appreciate you coming [01:07:25] to speak to us today. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, so did I, Fox and fam [01:07:30] guys, go have a look. It is amazing okay. Thank you so much. Thank.