[VOICE]: This [00:00:05] is mind movers [00:00:10] moving the conversation forward on mental health and [00:00:15] optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts Rhona [00:00:20] Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Rhona Eskander: Hello [00:00:25] everyone and welcome to another episode of Mind Movers. We have the privilege of speaking [00:00:30] to the incredibly talented Chinta miller. She is known around the world as a top makeup [00:00:35] artist. Chinta has created unforgettable looks for countless celebrities, but her journey goes beyond [00:00:40] the beauty industry. We actually met through a celebrity slash influencer. But anyways, she’s [00:00:45] faced some profound personal challenges, from a sudden loss in her family to overcoming difficult [00:00:50] relationships, all while building a remarkable career. Importantly as well, [00:00:55] she’s gone through her own fertility journey, which I want to talk about today. We’re here to dive deeper into his story, exploring [00:01:00] resilience, passion and strength to where she is today. Welcome, Chinta.

Cinta Miller: Hi. Hi. [00:01:05] How’s it going, guys?

Rhona Eskander: Good, good. I’m so happy to have you. So Payman [00:01:10] always asks, like, how do you know these people? What are they about, etc.. So I’ll give a little summary. Chinta and I met at [00:01:15] a birthday party from somebody who was on Love Island. That’s friends with Chinta. And she’s friends [00:01:20] with me too. And it was like love at first sight. I was like, this girl’s energy is amazing. She’s [00:01:25] infectious and she’s wonderful. And then the more I got to know you, I recognised that you were really this beacon [00:01:30] of strength and resilience from the things that have happened to you. So I like to start a little [00:01:35] bit from the beginning. But before I do, do you want to just tell everyone about I know you do your makeup artist [00:01:40] as your kind of career, but what else do you do?

Cinta Miller: Um, so my [00:01:45] career has been, um, it’s such a multifaceted role, [00:01:50] actually, because when you are a makeup artist, which I have been for 25 years, um, [00:01:55] and I predominantly work in music and TV and fashion and that kind of thing. When you [00:02:00] work with such high profile people, you’re given this level of responsibility and you, you build connections [00:02:05] very quickly and, um, a level of trust, and especially when you’re starting [00:02:10] with people from the bottom up or the ground up, I like to say ground up. Um, what [00:02:15] then happens is you then see the stepping stones of growth and [00:02:20] I’ve absorbed them, learnt them. And as the industry’s changed, like 20 [00:02:25] years ago when I started doing makeup, people weren’t posting stuff on. I didn’t even have a mobile phone 20 years ago [00:02:30] to assist people. I was going to phone boxes and harassing agencies for me to assist. [00:02:35] Um, nowadays it’s like, you know, it went from that to then working [00:02:40] and having stuff in print, in magazines, and now it’s like things aren’t very rarely, you know, a very rarely in print. Now it’s [00:02:45] on social media. Um, but still, the stepping stones of growth in my career [00:02:50] are the people’s careers have been something I’ve absorbed, and it’s something I’ve really enjoyed doing. [00:02:55] And after a lot of self-doubt, [00:03:00] um, and [00:03:05] imposter syndrome and also back [00:03:10] handed comments from other people, if I’m honest. Yeah. Um, learning to overcome all of that, [00:03:15] I was like, actually, my dream role is to be in music and in [00:03:20] music management and to learn all these skills that I’ve learned to grow an artist, a [00:03:25] music artist, but to be on the management front as well, and to have way more responsibility [00:03:30] and opinion and say, I always felt like I had opinion and sound stuff, and [00:03:35] it was kind of always overlooked because I was just the make up artist. So I’m like, actually, that’s [00:03:40] my passion, so let’s do it. And so I do that as well now.

Rhona Eskander: Amazing. So you’re actually in music [00:03:45] management now?

Cinta Miller: Yes, I’m in music management as well. Amazing.

Rhona Eskander: Before we jump to who she treats and everything like that, I know you want to jump to [00:03:50] those questions. I want to ask you a little bit about your childhood. Tell us a bit about where you grew up, what your family [00:03:55] are like.

Cinta Miller: So I grew up in a town in [00:04:00] Buckinghamshire called Aylesbury. I went to a school with the worst [00:04:05] reputation or horrendous reputation. Um, [00:04:10] state school. And I came out with all A’s. I [00:04:15] was a dork, but I was really popular at the same time. Um, I just think if [00:04:20] a child is bright, they’re going to find their way. And I [00:04:25] feel that the reason why I kind of had that fire in my belly is because I was the youngest of five as well. [00:04:30] Um, my family are Italian. My mum was a single mum, [00:04:35] um, until she remarried when I was six years old. Um, with five children. [00:04:40]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Cinta Miller: My mum was a single mum with five children. My dad actually got killed in an accident one [00:04:45] month after I was born, so I was born on the 12th of March. My dad died on the [00:04:50] 12th of April. Um, so I didn’t grow up knowing my dad at all. Although [00:04:55] I have a very good relationship with my dad’s family in Italy. My stepdad, I [00:05:00] would never say, this is my stepdad. He’s he’s my dad. He’s an amazing person. But up until the age of six [00:05:05] years old, it. My mum was a single mum and I very much remember those days. I remember [00:05:10] my sisters babysitting for me and my brothers babysitting for me. I remember my. I remember my brothers [00:05:15] being really strict with me as a kid and saying, you know, you’ve got to do good at school. You’ve got to. [00:05:20] I felt like I had more people at home to impress. So even though I loved being [00:05:25] popular at school, it was also very important to me to be popular at home [00:05:30] and made my life easier because my mum was very strict. We had a great [00:05:35] relationship with my mum, was very, very strict and I feel that that’s she had no other [00:05:40] way really. She was a mum of five children living in a [00:05:45] council house on a minimum wage. Yeah. Very proud. [00:05:50] She had to be strict to kind of do her best. Um, [00:05:55] so I did what I felt like I had to do to do my best as well. Um, did [00:06:00] very well at school. I still have a really good friendship with some of my teachers from school. Yeah. Um, [00:06:05] but, yeah, that was it.

Rhona Eskander: Did you go on to do GCSEs and A-levels?

Cinta Miller: Um, I [00:06:10] got all A’s in my GCSEs, a couple of A’s stars thrown in there, very creative courses. [00:06:15] I got the a stars for like drama, art. I was always very creative. I was one of those kids that because [00:06:20] my mum was strict, I was always in my bedroom at like 7 p.m. and so I used [00:06:25] to make my own magazines, write my own articles, cut things out of magazines, make my own fashion magazine. [00:06:30] Um, you know, write some words out. And [00:06:35] I was always thinking, oh, this is what I want to do when I’m older. I want to do some sort of makeup [00:06:40] or editing or be in fashion. And if I look at my career now, I’ve pretty much ticked [00:06:45] the boxes. I have done all of them. I’ve worked in fashion, I’ve worked in music, I’ve presented on TV [00:06:50] shows. I’ve done a bit of everything, so it kind of was definitely born there [00:06:55] for sure. Um, but yeah, [00:07:00] from and then from there I went on to, I did go to fashion college. I went to London College [00:07:05] of Fashion. Um, and from there [00:07:10] went to go on to do a degree at Saint Martins. And it was because [00:07:15] whilst I was at fashion college, I did a little bit of makeup. I did a tiny [00:07:20] makeup course and I was like, actually, I always thought makeup was something a beautician did, and then didn’t realise [00:07:25] that a beautician and a makeup artist were two different jobs. And then from there was just like [00:07:30] calling up people, messaging people to assist them, started assisting and was like, actually, [00:07:35] I could go to uni and get a job on a makeup counter at somewhere like Mac, [00:07:40] instead of getting a job at a bar or being a stripper.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I love that.

Cinta Miller: Basically, that [00:07:45] was the truth. And then I just didn’t end up going to uni. I ended up being a makeup artist, [00:07:50] going to work for Toni and Guy as a makeup artist, and then ended up learning hair. And [00:07:55] then the rest is history.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I love that. How did your mum, as a strict Italian [00:08:00] mother, cope with that?

Cinta Miller: Do you know what? One thing about my mum [00:08:05] is that my mum, as radical as she was being [00:08:10] strict, she gave the best advice. And the number one thing that she always [00:08:15] said to me was, I know it’s going to sound mental. She used to go, who cares if [00:08:20] you’re being the best version of yourself? Who cares who gives a shit? If I go to my mum [00:08:25] about a problem? I go, mum. She’d go, who gives a shit? [00:08:30] And I’d be like, you’re right. Who does give a shit? Um, and I remember saying to my mum, I don’t, I [00:08:35] don’t think I’m going to do this. I’m gonna be a hairdresser and a makeup artist. [00:08:40] And my mum was like, ah, who gives a shit about a degree? If you’re gonna go and be a hairdresser, just make sure [00:08:45] I don’t catch you down the high street Mhm. Where we live. We’re in a hairdresser. Go and be the [00:08:50] best hairdresser you can possibly be. I was like cool. And that’s what I did. My mom was just like, just go [00:08:55] and be the best version of what you can be.

Rhona Eskander: And so [00:09:00] I know as well. So did your siblings also follow suit? Did your siblings also end up doing really well? [00:09:05]

Cinta Miller: So I’m the youngest of five. My brothers and sisters are all [00:09:10] very different. You couldn’t have five more different siblings. [00:09:15] Unfortunately, my eldest sibling passed away. She [00:09:20] my, we’ve lost my mum now and I will get to that. But not long after my mum passed. [00:09:25] My sister passed quite soon after. Um, but my [00:09:30] next eldest sister, early on in her career, [00:09:35] she was a massive inspiration to me because she was she was 12 years older than me. [00:09:40] She was living in London. She was a dancer. She was, you know, I’d turn on TV, she was on top of the pops, and [00:09:45] there were shows like The Word, and she’d be on that as a dancer and I’d be like, wow, my sister’s amazing, and all my [00:09:50] friends are like, your sister was on TV. And I’d be like, yeah, I know my sister was on TV when she was like 15 on this, like [00:09:55] big dance competition, um, on the BBC. And from then she was kind of [00:10:00] like a little like local celebrity and then went on to be like a dancer and then worked at a film [00:10:05] production company, and then actually got me a summer job when I was 14 at this film production company. And [00:10:10] yeah, so I owe a lot to her. But now, you know, she moved back [00:10:15] home. She’s got a little boy, she retrained. She’s um, she retrained in, um, [00:10:20] counselling and social working. And now she is, um, she works with kids with [00:10:25] special needs and naughty kids in, in the school we went to, in the school that I went to, my sister works [00:10:30] there. So she’s there. My brother was I had one I’ve [00:10:35] got two brothers, but one brother, um, was a builder. Met [00:10:40] a girl when he was on holiday in Australia. Muslim girl changed religion [00:10:45] and is now an imam in the mosque.

Rhona Eskander: Wow.

Cinta Miller: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: What a story. [00:10:50]

Cinta Miller: I know that. And then my other brother is just [00:10:55] the brother that is just chilled, calm. Doesn’t [00:11:00] want anything. Doesn’t need to do anything. He’s happy in his own little skin. Doesn’t [00:11:05] really like going out. Just really likes being home, watching TV, having three meals a day. Making [00:11:10] sure that I’m okay. Checks in with me. Checks in with my husband. My husband’s his best [00:11:15] mate. He loves him.

Payman Langroudi: You know, they say. They say that’s it. They say billionaires tend [00:11:20] to be fourth and fifth kids. Because what ends up happening is [00:11:25] what ends up happening is the first kid they I don’t know. She says something clever [00:11:30] and the parents say, you’re you’re the clever one. Then the second kid, the clever, is taken now. Yeah. The [00:11:35] second kid comes along, kicks the ball, and they say, oh, you’re the sporty one. Third kid says something funny. Oh, you’re the [00:11:40] funny one. And by the time you get to the fourth and fifth, If all that normal stuff’s been taken. [00:11:45] And so you’ve got to kind of invent something. You’ve got to find a way. It’s not going.

Cinta Miller: To be the rich one.

Payman Langroudi: Shining, [00:11:50] and they’re going to be the rich one. Not not necessarily, but billionaires end up thinking outside of [00:11:55] the box.

Cinta Miller: The entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah, that’s definitely me.

Payman Langroudi: So does that resonate?

Cinta Miller: Definitely me. And [00:12:00] funny you should say that. Like, every single time she’s going to kill me for saying this. Or she might love it, actually. [00:12:05] Um, every single time I speak to my sister Mel, she’s [00:12:10] always like, I’ve got a business idea for you. And she’ll tell me the idea. And I know because [00:12:15] she’s she always wants to do different things. She’ll tell me the idea. Not necessarily. [00:12:20] And I think not necessarily just because it’s she. She [00:12:25] sounds the idea out because she knows. I’ll tell her straight whether it’s going to be right or wrong, [00:12:30] or whether it could be successful or not. And she’ll know that. [00:12:35] I’ll play devil’s advocate and I’ll play devil’s advocate because I’ve got her back. So like she said [00:12:40] to me the other day, oh, I’ve got a business proposition for you. What about if we do this, this and this? Well, I’ll tell you what. That’s not going to work, because I already [00:12:45] do it here, and I already do it there. And you need to think that I’ve already got this network of people, [00:12:50] and you’d need to build that network of people for yourself. But how about this? Um. [00:12:55] And I do like applying myself to different job roles, [00:13:00] and I don’t because I’m successful at other roles. If [00:13:05] I fail at others, I’ve got the safety net of the things that are working.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. I mean.

Cinta Miller: I can take [00:13:10] more of a risk.

Rhona Eskander: I think the ad thing. Right. As in, like I told you, I have to multitask [00:13:15] and do like 20 things at once. I mean, my, my, um, members of staff joke [00:13:20] because they say that Rona abandons a sentence halfway. I mean, I do that to Laura as well. Who does [00:13:25] like the enlightened abandon a sentence halfway because I’m bored of that sentence, basically. And then [00:13:30] people are left guessing, you know? But it’s the thing is, like, we get to actually today, my husband was [00:13:35] making fun of me because I had like an affirmations playlist playing on Spotify. And he [00:13:40] goes, have you sped it up? And I was like, oh yeah, I did that because, like, it was too slow to get out what [00:13:45] the person needed to get out.

Payman Langroudi: And I got some affirmations. Playlist. Um, so you’re beautiful. [00:13:50] You’re so. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So basically I’ve changed my morning routine. And I think that [00:13:55] that has really helped my mental health. Um, so what I do is the first thing that [00:14:00] I do when I get up is I take 20 breaths, um, like, you know, out, um, [00:14:05] in through the mouth, out through the nose, that kind of thing. And I don’t look at my phone. Right. So my phone’s in the other room. [00:14:10] Then I go into the bathroom and do, like, all my skin care, etc., and [00:14:15] I’ll have an affirmations playlist. So it depends on what I’m feeling. But it was like, you are [00:14:20] strong, you are beautiful, you are healthy, blah blah blah and it plays on a loop. I think it has [00:14:25] an effect on your neuroplasticity because the thing is, is I’ve been doing it for like a month or two now. Obviously, I think, [00:14:30] you know, imagine like that in the background whilst you’re doing stuff instead of like, you are fat, you [00:14:35] are ugly, you are worthless. Like surely that’s going to have an effect on your brain. And [00:14:40] then I’ll journal. Then I’ll like take my. Does that.

Payman Langroudi: Mean, does that you write what you did.

Rhona Eskander: Yesterday? No [00:14:45] not yesterday I write what has what’s coming up for me on my mind. And it’s like a stream of consciousness. [00:14:50] It’s not even something that’s super curated. Yeah. And then I get ready [00:14:55] and by the time I leave the house, from the moment I’ve woken up, I haven’t looked at my [00:15:00] phone for 40 minutes to an hour from the moment that I’ve woken up. And now I just look at my phone as I’m leaving the house [00:15:05] and it’s changed the game for me.

Cinta Miller: See, it’s funny you should say that because not [00:15:10] that I can’t do that. I can, but.

Rhona Eskander: I used to [00:15:15] think, I.

Cinta Miller: Can’t, I don’t have I genuinely from the moment I get up, [00:15:20] I feel like I don’t really have the freedom to do all of those things. [00:15:25] So I used to.

Rhona Eskander: Think that why.

Payman Langroudi: Why, why.

Rhona Eskander: I just get up earlier.

Payman Langroudi: Now. Have you got.

Cinta Miller: Kids? Right. So but no, [00:15:30] no kids. So the thing is. Yeah. So now what? I’ve started doing very [00:15:35] similar to you in some ways the trick is you have to get up earlier. [00:15:40] The only way you are not going to get intervened, [00:15:45] what I call it is what I call it is railroaded. I [00:15:50] always feel like sometimes I’m doing stuff and somebody comes in and railroads me in the middle of doing something, and [00:15:55] it’s like their situation is more important and you carry on and then this [00:16:00] person’s more like, my kid is sick or this is happening or that’s happening or, oh, I need you to do this, or can you [00:16:05] proofread this for you and you? And actually that’s ego because you feel like, oh, these people need me. So you kind of end up [00:16:10] doing that. But what you do is do a massive disservice to yourself. You need to do your own shit first. Are you [00:16:15] a people pleaser? Yes, massively. And I’m trying not to be a people pleaser because I fucking hate being [00:16:20] a people pleaser. I love people some.

Rhona Eskander: Has a massive negative effect on your immune [00:16:25] system.

Cinta Miller: I love, I love people, and I really, I really champion people, and [00:16:30] I really want people to do well. And I think there’s enough good energy, enough work, Enough [00:16:35] everything for everybody in this world, right? But [00:16:40] some I’ve noticed. I’ve realised that giving too much of myself [00:16:45] at the wrong time has been very detrimental to me. So I don’t know if you even saw I had [00:16:50] this huge operation about 6 or 7 weeks ago, and after this operation [00:16:55] I had to take some time off and I was like, actually, I’m going to start this thing [00:17:00] that’s called, I started this thing I’ve been doing on Instagram, and I haven’t even made [00:17:05] myself go on Instagram every day because I’m like, it’s okay, I don’t have to post this on Instagram [00:17:10] every day. But I did put it on there to give myself some level of accountability as I’m doing this thing called 365 [00:17:15] and 365 means for 365 days, I have to take one hour [00:17:20] a day. That is purely for me. And if it means that hour is off my phone for [00:17:25] an hour and not on social media going, it’s my 365 and I’m off my phone, then I’m not going to post it because [00:17:30] some people have messaged me going, well, we hope you haven’t posted anything for a few days. I’m like, yeah, because I’m having a digital detox [00:17:35] and that’s what I need to feel better. But, um, going [00:17:40] back to what you were saying, the trick is definitely you get up early in the morning, and I’ve.

Rhona Eskander: Been your [00:17:45] morning. I really think that, you know, um, I’m reading a book called Smarter by Emily [00:17:50] Austin. She sent me the book, and she has an incredibly successful PR agency, [00:17:55] and the book gives a smarter way to, um, [00:18:00] become successful. And it really resonates, especially for women, because she said, for [00:18:05] so many years, you know, you read books about like, just sleep for five hours or do as [00:18:10] much as you can or ram in. And she actually completely refutes all of that. And I [00:18:15] totally agree as well, because I used to be like, right, 5 a.m. club, like, you know, like exercise, [00:18:20] do this, do this, do 100 things before 9 a.m. and I’m like, no, it doesn’t work for my body. I was [00:18:25] unhappy, unhealthy and burnt out, which is pretty much what happens to a lot of women. But she says owning your morning, [00:18:30] whatever that looks like to you personally is that. And that doesn’t mean doing [00:18:35] like a crazy exercise class or doing, but it is certain little things. And [00:18:40] I think those habits for me, I will exercise every morning, but it doesn’t need to be something [00:18:45] crazy. So that helps me. For some people it doesn’t, but it helps me.

Cinta Miller: So what I’ve been doing [00:18:50] is either before I go to bed at night or when I get get up in the morning, [00:18:55] one of two things, or I do them both is I’ve been just literally going on YouTube, putting [00:19:00] in stoic meditations. Yeah. And doing, um, really listening [00:19:05] to stoicism. I don’t know if you know anything about that. So I’ve really been listening to stoicism and [00:19:10] just mantras of like and actually thinking about it now. It really [00:19:15] resonates with my mum because it’s like nothing matters. Don’t worry. It’s just like, don’t sweat the small stuff [00:19:20] and be positive about yourself and that affirmations and have that moment of calm [00:19:25] and I sometimes I like listening to it before I go to bed at night, because it will resonate [00:19:30] with things that has happened during the day, especially the Liam and I will listen to it together at night before [00:19:35] we go to bed and we’re both like, oh, actually, you know, we’re just moaning about that in the car. And actually, this is how we should approach it. [00:19:40] You know, it was just moaning about this.

Cinta Miller: And, you know, this has just taken me aback. And I feel like I get the answers. [00:19:45] I just put one on at random. I leave it to the fate, I leave it to the universe, and [00:19:50] I do that. And then in the morning I will get up early. I’ll make a herbal tea. [00:19:55] I’ll sit on my sit on my sofa, put a blanket around me, and then I’ll listen to a bit of [00:20:00] a meditation, a stoic meditation, and do breathwork. Um, and [00:20:05] it would just be for ten minutes and then I will go for a walk. [00:20:10] I live in like a beautiful little village, and it will consist of walking ten [00:20:15] times around the block or once around the block, but I will just get some steps in to get my body moving [00:20:20] and then I’ll go home, have a shower, get ready, and then plan my day. And that [00:20:25] is what I’ve been doing since I’ve had my operation. And I feel so much better. My [00:20:30] I feel like I feel like the inflammation in my body is, like, gone [00:20:35] down. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: You’ve mentioned your mom a few times. Um, tell us a little bit about your [00:20:40] mom and what happened. And, you know, you are this beacon of positivity and happiness, and obviously, your story [00:20:45] touched me, so.

Cinta Miller: So my mom, my mom was an incredible woman. She was like, as I said, [00:20:50] strict woman, tough woman. But I can categorically tell you now, [00:20:55] no one was funnier than my mum. My mum was pure jokes and that’s what I miss the most. [00:21:00] She was really funny. Um, but I literally spoke to her [00:21:05] one morning. I was going to look at a house and. And I just [00:21:10] for some reason, at one point in my life, I was like, I want to live near the beach. So I decided to go and look [00:21:15] at houses on the coast. And I was like, yeah, I’m going today. And she was like, I’ll make sure there’s a balcony [00:21:20] for me, you know, make sure there’s a room for me. I want a balcony with a sea view. And I was like, yeah, I’ll let you know. And [00:21:25] I walked into this house and it was, it wasn’t for me. And I was like, oh, my mom would hate this. And [00:21:30] as I walked out, I had a missed call from my brother and [00:21:35] my and then a message. And the moment my brother left me a message, I knew something had happened because my brother never leaves [00:21:40] me a message. He’d never phoned me during the day and he’d never leave me a message. It was always a text [00:21:45] and I was like, something’s wrong. And I called my. My brother left me a message and [00:21:50] was like, you need to come home.

Cinta Miller: And I just I knew instantly. And basically my mom had a pulmonary pulmonary [00:21:55] embolism, which basically a blood clot. And the thing was, she had [00:22:00] complained about this pain in her leg and foot about a month before, [00:22:05] and it was really bad. She was like, I’ve never felt pain like it. And we went to the doctors and the doctor was like, [00:22:10] you know, you’ve got arthritis in your knees. It’s probably that you’ve got to lose a bit of weight. And she was like, [00:22:15] yeah, but I’m trying. But this pain is different. And they were like, we’ll send you to the hospital. I went to the hospital. Oh, [00:22:20] we haven’t got the right iodine to put through to give you a scan. Come back tomorrow. Went back the next day. Oh, [00:22:25] we can’t find a vein to put the iodine in. Come back the next day. By the time my mum actually had the scan, [00:22:30] they did the scan on her leg and I haven’t got a blood clot. You’re fine. It’s your arthritis. And then three days later, [00:22:35] my mum was having breakfast with my dad, and my dad basically said that [00:22:40] he’d made her like egg and soldiers, which was very [00:22:45] rare because my mum cooks. Morning, noon and night. So my dad cooked my mum breakfast was really rare [00:22:50] and my mum had said to him that was really nice, at least I know if I die you can cook. [00:22:55]

Cinta Miller: And he and he went behave and my mum put the [00:23:00] like the plate down, went to go into the bathroom and went Paul. And then [00:23:05] my Paul had this huge bang and my mum had just hit the deck and [00:23:10] died. That was it. She was gone and my stepdad was just [00:23:15] there, didn’t know what to do, called my brother. My brother came, air ambulance came, landed [00:23:20] outside the house and my mum was gone. And by the time I got [00:23:25] there, my mum, it was awful. Like, I remember being by the coast and having [00:23:30] to drive all the way back home and it was like rush hour traffic and it was just awful. [00:23:35] And I got there and my mum was was still there and [00:23:40] I beat myself up quite a lot because actually the last time I physically [00:23:45] saw her and spent time with her was Boxing Day. She died at the beginning [00:23:50] of February was Boxing Day and Boxing Day. I left to go skiing with my friends and [00:23:55] my mum was like, why do you want to go skiing for? And I was like, I don’t know, something’s doing it. It’s a laugh. And she was like, [00:24:00] all right. And actually, I wish I’d just stayed and spent more time with my family at Christmas. [00:24:05] Um, but I guess it was just her [00:24:10] time.

Rhona Eskander: So, I mean, I know we’ve had. How did that affect you at that time [00:24:15] in your life? Kind of like emotionally and mentally.

Cinta Miller: At that time, [00:24:20] I went into fight or flight 100% I can. I [00:24:25] can categorically tell you, minus a handful of my friends. [00:24:30] No one really asked me how I was, how I was feeling because I had at [00:24:35] that point of my relationship, I had such a close relationship with my mum. There was like a few [00:24:40] family things that were going on, and as the youngest, I [00:24:45] kind of got burdened with this huge responsibility that I feel like a lot of people [00:24:50] in my family felt like I’d asked for, and I definitely didn’t ask for it. I was like, I’m [00:24:55] the youngest. I’ve had the least time with mum. Out of all of you guys, you’ve all been on this planet longer. [00:25:00] I feel too young to have lost my mum. I was [00:25:05] only 30, 31. I feel too young to be without my mum [00:25:10] and I don’t have children. I’m not married [00:25:15] and I just felt like I was going to do a lot of the things, my life, things [00:25:20] on my own, even though I had my family, but I wasn’t. I really didn’t have my biological dad. [00:25:25]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Cinta Miller: So I kind of then got burdened with this responsibility, [00:25:30] this family responsibility. And I felt like I had to step [00:25:35] up to what my mom wanted me to do. And it was like organising a funeral, organising the will, doing this, doing [00:25:40] that. And it was a lot of pressure and I didn’t really felt. I didn’t really [00:25:45] feel that. I didn’t feel looked after. [00:25:50] I felt like my safety net or this safety blanket that we all have from [00:25:55] our parents just got pulled from underneath my feet, and I felt like I was just I’d been thrown out of a plane, [00:26:00] basically. I felt like I was like, flapping my arms, trying to stay up in the air and nobody [00:26:05] could see me flapping my arms. And it was from that point there that I developed [00:26:10] anxiety. I’d never had anxiety before, but from that point then I definitely developed anxiety. [00:26:15] Um, and it wasn’t until a year [00:26:20] later when I went through another bad experience. My sister, then my eldest [00:26:25] sister, then got cancer. I then met a guy, went through an awful relationship, [00:26:30] and he put me through the mill and the stress levels and my my adrenal fatigue, the stress levels, [00:26:35] the mitochondria depletion just affected me so badly, [00:26:40] and I was so depleted that I actually remember being on my bedroom floor and my friend [00:26:45] coming in and going, like, what are you doing? And I’d been there for three days. And she was like, I’ve been trying to call [00:26:50] you. Like what? And she just burst into tears and she was like, look, we need [00:26:55] to talk. Like, what are you doing? And I was like, I, I’m really upset. And she was like, [00:27:00] oh my God. And I was like, I’m really upset that I’ve woken up. Like, I was gutted that I’d woken up. [00:27:05] I just wanted to die. I was just like, there’s nothing.

Rhona Eskander: But that’s grief. And I think that grief is a really important [00:27:10] part. Like, I think, I mean, have you ever had any grief in your life? Sure [00:27:15] you have. Yeah. I think that grief is something that we’re, I don’t know, like, I [00:27:20] think grief is something that’s so important, but as some human beings are not great at it. [00:27:25] You know, I’ve seen like like people experience loss and they it’s almost like they just go on this [00:27:30] autopilot. Right. Got to get up and go. Yeah. Especially if they have to take on that role of [00:27:35] like, like you said, the will the the actual like logistics of everything. But [00:27:40] I think that if we don’t allow grief to go through our body, it will catch [00:27:45] up with you at some point. We have got to allow that. Like grief is a healthy emotion. [00:27:50] And I remember once saying to my therapist, I’ve grieved things in a different way. Like, [00:27:55] sure, I’ve not experienced death, you know, touch wood. You know, my grandparents [00:28:00] died, but I think that was there was more acceptance with that. I wasn’t particularly [00:28:05] close to them. Um, it happened when they were pretty old, you know, it seemed like a natural [00:28:10] sort of process of life. But more recently, I had really [00:28:15] discovered what grief meant, losing relationships and [00:28:20] lovers and things like that. And I think that those things also [00:28:25] have an element of grief in it. And I said to my therapist, I was like, I feel like I want [00:28:30] to die. Why do I feel like I want to die? And she goes, that’s grief. Yeah. And then I said, so what [00:28:35] do I do? And she goes, the only way out is through. The only way out is through. [00:28:40] And that stuck by me. So now when I feel like I just want to cry all day because [00:28:45] someone has left my life, and as I said, it almost does [00:28:50] feel like death when someone leaves your life and you never see them again, right? She just said, just go [00:28:55] right through it. Yeah.

Cinta Miller: And it’s so it’s so, so true. At that point, [00:29:00] I put such emphasis. I’d been [00:29:05] in this relationship that had come to an end. I’m not going to go into what the ins and outs of it because he doesn’t [00:29:10] deserve the airtime. But, um, I really felt like I was grieving that relationship, [00:29:15] but I wasn’t I was grieving my mum because actually what I’d done is I’d replaced the safety net with [00:29:20] somebody that just wasn’t reliable. And when that person went, I was then really, really [00:29:25] faced with the grief. Um, and in the end, I [00:29:30] talk about people pleasing. Actually, this is where I think people pleasing did get me through [00:29:35] and did work in my favour, because there was a moment where things were [00:29:40] so bad that my friend’s husband called me and he was like, [00:29:45] look, my friend obviously said to her husband, I’m really worried about her. And he [00:29:50] he called me. He went, look, I’ve called a clinic. I’ve called a clinic, a rehab clinic for you. [00:29:55] You’ve got a really bad day. I think. We think you’ve got really bad depression. I’m going to pay for [00:30:00] you to go. And I was like, really? He was like, yeah, yeah, I’m going to pay for you to go. [00:30:05] He goes, whether it’s a week, four weeks, I’m paying for it. And I remember [00:30:10] thinking, oh my God, it’s so expensive. And I sat there and thought to myself, oh my God, what if I go [00:30:15] and I don’t get better? And then I then I went 80 grand.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. I was [00:30:20] like.

Cinta Miller: I can’t have that level of responsibility or burden on my shoulders. I thought the only way through this is [00:30:25] for me to pull my socks up. So I actually opened my laptop and [00:30:30] thought, right, where can I go on my own? Where I’m going to feel safe and where I’m going [00:30:35] to grow? And I basically booked a muay Thai bootcamp [00:30:40] in Thailand and I booked it. I went for a month on my own, and for the first [00:30:45] two weeks it was horrendous. I hated every day of it. I cried every day. I was in bed at like 7:00 every night [00:30:50] crying. And then one day I did this hike. [00:30:55] And this hike was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. It was like uphill incline for four hours and [00:31:00] I was like, yeah, I hike. I’ve done Runyon Canyon in L.A., I’m a I’m a, you know, a seasoned [00:31:05] hiker was I.

Rhona Eskander: Got to this.

Cinta Miller: Hike, was doing it. And then slowly, slowly, I got to the [00:31:10] back. And then I was like miles behind everybody else. And when I got to the top, everyone was [00:31:15] waiting for me and everyone applauded. And I was just like, all I did was just cry. And I sat on these [00:31:20] steps at this huge Buddha and was crying. And I looked up and all I could see was these beautiful [00:31:25] islands with like, fog. And I just got a hit with [00:31:30] like, this is going to sound really corny, but I got hit with this beauty of [00:31:35] the universe, and what it made me feel was extremely lucky for, [00:31:40] oh my God, I’m really lucky to be here. Yeah, I’m lucky that I can afford to be here. I’m [00:31:45] lucky that I can afford to take a month off work. I’m lucky that I’m breathing. I’m lucky that I’ve met these amazing people. [00:31:50] That I’ve waited two hours for me. What have I got? What have I got to be upset about? And why am [00:31:55] I crying over a loser? And actually, what I’m crying about really is my mum. [00:32:00] And that’s when I kind of went back home, met [00:32:05] somebody instantly, who I’m now married to. Better frame of mind. Went [00:32:10] to see my sister who was really sick, built bridges with my sister, and we started to get our family [00:32:15] trajectory back on track. I needed to build myself [00:32:20] back first and become my own safety net. I suppose.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, losing both parents [00:32:25] is a funny thing. I mean, I haven’t lost either parent, but.

Rhona Eskander: How [00:32:30] old are they?

Payman Langroudi: 88 and 78. Oh.

Rhona Eskander: So [00:32:35] young. They had you then?

Payman Langroudi: Oh, yeah. You’re saying that.

Cinta Miller: Like [00:32:40] he’s 75?

Rhona Eskander: I’m literally. I’m winding him up. I’m winding him.

Payman Langroudi: Up. But no, but several of my that’s [00:32:45] like.

Rhona Eskander: That’s actually my dad’s 80 and my mom’s 70. So that’s still.

Payman Langroudi: Similar. [00:32:50] Um, the I’ve got loads of friends who’ve lost both parents. And [00:32:55] that moment of losing your second parent. I’ve spoken to all of them about it. [00:33:00] And it’s this they they say stuff like, suddenly the ground feels [00:33:05] like it’s shaking.

Rhona Eskander: That’s crazy.

Cinta Miller: It’s exactly how it feels.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. And and it’s [00:33:10] a funny thing because, you know, but you could be 50 years old and and that could happen to you. [00:33:15] And, you know, your parents, by the time you get to my age, I’m looking after my parents more than they’re [00:33:20] looking after me. But there is there’s something about it that [00:33:25] that shakes you up when you haven’t got anyone to go to.

Cinta Miller: Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: In [00:33:30] a way.

Rhona Eskander: Do you think that. I know this is a bit of a weird question, but do you think no matter what age [00:33:35] you lose your parents, you’re an orphan? Do you know what I mean?

Cinta Miller: I cannot believe you just said that. [00:33:40] Do you know how many times, like in [00:33:45] my family we’ve said we’re orphans? Because we are. We are actually orphans. [00:33:50] And although I kind of think, yeah, we’re orphans, but we’re kind of not because we’ve got [00:33:55] family. I see orphans as something that don’t have anybody. But we’ve lost our parents [00:34:00] for sure. We say that all the time.

Rhona Eskander: But do you think, like, you know, like so pay. God forbid. Obviously, [00:34:05] if you lost your parents soon because, as you said, they kind of lived their [00:34:10] life and their older. Do you think you’d feel like an orphan or not?

Payman Langroudi: To the extent that you know, your [00:34:15] your parents always see you as their little kid? Mhm. You know, do you think.

Rhona Eskander: They still do.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah for [00:34:20] sure.

Rhona Eskander: Little pay.

Payman Langroudi: No they really do. They really do. And they give you advice that they used to give you when you’re [00:34:25] like 12. Like be careful on whatever. And to that same extent you always think of them [00:34:30] as your parent, you know like. Yeah. So and there’s also sort of the stories that are [00:34:35] lost and like the reason why I’m trying to spend as much time with my parents as possible is because [00:34:40] I know I will regret it when they’re gone and, and they’re still telling me things I never knew, you [00:34:45] know? Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: I think the loss of parents is something that, again, is quite stigmatised, [00:34:50] that people don’t really talk about it. The holistic psychologist, she’s my favourite. Nicole Pereira [00:34:55] I don’t know if you follow her, but she’s brilliant. And she says, you know, it’s something that people don’t like to [00:35:00] talk about because it’s almost like they just don’t ever want to have to face it.

Payman Langroudi: People don’t like to talk about death in general. [00:35:05]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. No, you’re right, you’re probably right. But I think also particularly she talks [00:35:10] about, you know, you look at your parents, you know, if you’ve had the privilege of watching them age and [00:35:15] you suddenly look at them and go, they’re getting old, or you suddenly notice they can’t do stuff for themselves [00:35:20] anymore, she said. That’s quite difficult to come to terms with, and I would say that I have [00:35:25] to totally agree with that. Tell us a little bit if it’s okay and not too heavy about then [00:35:30] the loss of your sister. So you said that happened quite quickly afterwards. Was it linked?

Cinta Miller: So no, [00:35:35] my sister had cancer. My [00:35:40] sister literally just had cancer. She had bowel cancer and it was secondary on her liver [00:35:45] and then took over her whole body. And it was it came around quite quickly. Um, [00:35:50] and she, she literally passed a year, 18 [00:35:55] months later. Wow. So that kind of happened. But that was a really [00:36:00] peculiar situation because my sister, [00:36:05] She was the eldest, I was the youngest. And for a very long time of my life, [00:36:10] a big part of my life as a kid, she wasn’t. We weren’t close. [00:36:15] Then I feel like the age gap closes. When you’re a certain age. You’re [00:36:20] into certain things. You’re discovering things, you know. I then had, like a level of respect for [00:36:25] my sister and really looked up to her. You know, she had, you know, she bought houses and I was [00:36:30] on, you know, on my career path. And she was, like, really proud of me. [00:36:35] And then it kind of split again because of the whole [00:36:40] family politics. Um, and I feel bad for that. But that [00:36:45] was a situation where I really I [00:36:50] feel bad for it. But I did have to take time out for myself to be like, I [00:36:55] have to get myself back on track, because if I don’t, I’m going to maybe [00:37:00] end up going down another way of becoming quite poorly. And [00:37:05] I saw my sister let things affect her unnecessarily. [00:37:10] And I really believe, I don’t know if, you know, there’s going to be medical experts [00:37:15] out there and they’re like, you don’t know about how this works. No, I don’t, but what I can say [00:37:20] is that mentally, things affected my sister unnecessarily, [00:37:25] and she had a choice of whether she let that affect her or not. And she did. And [00:37:30] I think that it definitely contributed to how unwell she was.

Rhona Eskander: I mean, I think [00:37:35] we’ve had this conversation before on this podcast. I think it is impossible to separate [00:37:40] the mind and the body as much as people want to separate it. There are a few psychotherapists, [00:37:45] psychiatrists that recognise that they recognise cancer, autoimmune. [00:37:50] There is an element of like mental health associated to [00:37:55] that and I think it just makes sense. It’s the story. It just it just makes sense. It’s the [00:38:00] stored toxicity, the stored stress. Of course it’s going to affect you. But I think [00:38:05] what’s remarkable about you, you know, is that you have not let that [00:38:10] stored grief, you know, affect who you are and the decisions that you make, which is absolutely [00:38:15] incredible. However, as we know, I think it did quite rightly [00:38:20] also affect your fertility, you know, which we’ve talked about. So I’m [00:38:25] interested to kind of go into that. So tell me, tell us a little bit about your fertility [00:38:30] and what happened.

Cinta Miller: So basically at that time, I think [00:38:35] my adrenal, my adrenal fatigue was at an all [00:38:40] time high. Like I was so burnt out. And [00:38:45] for those of you that know, are kind of like medically about all your mitochondria and where it’s stored. But women store most [00:38:50] of their mitochondria in their ovaries purely because it’s there as a reserve for childbirth. [00:38:55] So that’s why you get so many women that are, you know, athletes that [00:39:00] are long distance runners that are constantly on the go with [00:39:05] a shortage of energy, they lose their periods because [00:39:10] actually the mitochondria that is in their fertility system and menstrual [00:39:15] cycle kind of gets depleted and all of that jazz. So I’m not a medical expert, but I know enough [00:39:20] about it. Um, but at that time I was [00:39:25] so stressed. I was carrying so much grief, emotion, hurt, pain, [00:39:30] responsibility. Every superlative that describes [00:39:35] an emotion I had, I can categorically tell you I had to the point. [00:39:40] I even had therapy with a CBT therapist and she was like trying to give me therapy [00:39:45] and I went to her. Can I just ask you something? Have you lost your mum? And she went, um, no. And I [00:39:50] went, you’re not for me. Yeah. And I just left. Yeah. I was like, you cannot advise somebody [00:39:55] unless you actually physically know, walk the walk. And actually I [00:40:00] know people go, cognitive behavioural therapy is amazing and listen, it has its place. But [00:40:05] when people are grieving, let me tell you. Do you know what they need? They need somebody to put their arm around them and go, [00:40:10] you’re going to be okay. Yeah, you are going to be okay. I’m here for you. [00:40:15] They need love, support, comfort and emotion. They don’t need words. [00:40:20] They don’t need.

Rhona Eskander: Work.

Cinta Miller: Work. They don’t need the not to say [00:40:25] you don’t need therapy, but when somebody is grieving, just put your arms around them [00:40:30] and give them some love. You cannot honestly, you cannot [00:40:35] even begin to know how powerful that is for somebody. So [00:40:40] in that moment, I was like, I need to leave. But as I said, I had.

Payman Langroudi: But then you’re [00:40:45] a hugger.

Cinta Miller: Yeah, I’m a hugger. You are?

Payman Langroudi: It’s obvious. Yeah, I’m a hugger. Yeah, [00:40:50] but some people aren’t.

Cinta Miller: Yeah, I think that’s got to do with that.

Payman Langroudi: Maybe you need hugs in [00:40:55] that moment. I mean, I hug some people, it’s like hugging a tree. Like you just don’t want to be hugged, [00:41:00] you know? I feel I.

Cinta Miller: Think it’s a very European, Mediterranean [00:41:05] thing.

Rhona Eskander: I think also the thing is, is like hugging has literally been shown to release endorphins, serotonin, happiness. [00:41:10] I think the people that don’t enjoy being hugging or being touched, I think that’s maybe I’m making a massive [00:41:15] generalisation is some kind of like repression inside them?

Payman Langroudi: Maybe.

Rhona Eskander: Or [00:41:20] maybe trauma. Maybe trauma. Like people that also have may have been abused don’t want to be touched necessarily.

Payman Langroudi: Like but [00:41:25] but just some people’s makeup is is that way. And some people.

Rhona Eskander: You know I think you’re oversimplifying [00:41:30] it.

Payman Langroudi: Well maybe but but I remember in Covid, the thing I hated the most was not hugging [00:41:35] people, you know, like when you couldn’t get near people. Yeah. Yeah. It was it was the thing that got to me. I [00:41:40] was almost feeling down about it, you know, like culturally.

Rhona Eskander: Like Chintoo said, like for some cultures, [00:41:45] it’s more acceptable than others.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but my own brother doesn’t hug, you know what I mean? Like, he was brought up in [00:41:50] the same house you.

Rhona Eskander: Do to him.

Payman Langroudi: I think you.

Cinta Miller: Should say that. I actually saw an Instagram [00:41:55] post the other day saying, let’s normalise my friend.

Rhona Eskander: I saw the holistic psychologist. Let’s normalise children [00:42:00] that don’t want to be touched. Or is that the one?

Cinta Miller: Let’s normalise children not having to hug people. [00:42:05]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I saw that. That’s the holistic psychologist. But I follow a lot of her work.

Cinta Miller: And I [00:42:10] was like, what is that about?

Rhona Eskander: No, I think she’s saying that like, you know, that we should listen to children’s [00:42:15] intuition is basically what she’s trying to say. Like, you know, when like people, it’s the same thing that it’s like [00:42:20] pretty girls smile, like, smile for the nice, nice smile for the nice person. So [00:42:25] it’s kind of like, don’t force children because children have pretty good intuition. And if they don’t feel like hugging people, they [00:42:30] shouldn’t be forced into it. That’s kind of like the premise of it. But but I want to continue like [00:42:35] on this.

Payman Langroudi: Sorry, sorry for interrupting.

Cinta Miller: So I had long story short, I’m [00:42:40] going to really abbreviate it down. But basically at [00:42:45] that absolute point of having all of these emotions, carrying all of these [00:42:50] emotions, I was at my thinnest as well. I was I looked at a picture the other day and I was like, [00:42:55] God, I look good. I look good. I look really good. I was at my thinnest and [00:43:00] I had my periods had stopped, and I remember going to the doctors and saying, you know, my periods have stopped. And [00:43:05] he basically said, look, you’ve lost a lot of weight very quickly. You’ve got to look at it like a bank account. Imagine you’re going to a cashpoint [00:43:10] and you’re you’re.

Payman Langroudi: Drawing out drawing.

Cinta Miller: Out money, but you’re not putting [00:43:15] anything in. And that bank account is empty, but you’re still you’re still trying to draw out and you’re going into your overdraft. [00:43:20] And I was like, right, okay. And then I put a little bit of weight back on periods [00:43:25] didn’t come back. And then I went back to the doctor again and he said, oh, do you know what? I think you’ve [00:43:30] got polycystic ovaries. Let’s do a test for polycystic ovaries. Did that. And he was like, [00:43:35] you haven’t got polycystic ovaries. I think you’ve got a problem with your thyroid. Did a test for that. And I was [00:43:40] like, can I just get a test for all of them? No, we can’t do that. In the end, I was like, [00:43:45] right. How old were you? I was 32. In the end, I went [00:43:50] to I found a hormone doctor, a fertility doctor, um, gynaecologist [00:43:55] weren’t paid. It was private, paid for him. And [00:44:00] I had a test. I had a group of tests done with him, and his [00:44:05] secretary sent me an email and was like, Mr. Reginald wants to do your test again. [00:44:10] He’d like to do your test again. So I did all my test again. And then he said [00:44:15] to me, he actually called me and he went, have you got a partner? And I said, because [00:44:20] you’ve got a partner, right? And I said, yeah, I’m, you know, I’m in a relationship.

Cinta Miller: And [00:44:25] he said, how serious is your relationship? I said, very serious. I think that’s the person I’m going to marry. And [00:44:30] he went, bring him with you when you come to your appointment. Like this guy, honestly, [00:44:35] I love I love him for doing this. And I went to my appointment and he went, [00:44:40] I wanted to do your results twice because sometimes you could just it’s bad timing. And if I get it twice [00:44:45] and it’s the same results and we’ve got to go with it, he said. But basically you’re, um, it’s [00:44:50] your malaria and cell count. He saw your malaria and cell count as that of [00:44:55] a 60 year old woman. And he said, and your hormone levels are [00:45:00] your. He was like going through all my hormones. And basically he said to me, where you’re at, you would get women [00:45:05] saying they’re in perimenopause or. He goes, you’re not there. You’re out of it. You’re through it. He goes, [00:45:10] you’re you’ve got you’ve got no eggs, you’ve got zero eggs, there’s no follicles. [00:45:15] There’s no there’s none of that. He goes, there’s none. And I went.

Rhona Eskander: So you [00:45:20] were 32 and you basically were diagnosed with menopause at 32. Yeah.

Cinta Miller: And he basically and the first question [00:45:25] I said was because I’m naive, I don’t I know nothing about this. Right. [00:45:30] I went, can I have IVF? And he went, no, [00:45:35] because I don’t know if you know how IVF works. You have to take your eggs. And so no you can’t. I [00:45:40] went, can I have children? And he went and I looked at Liam and [00:45:45] I went, you don’t have to stay with me. It’s the first thing I said to him. I went, you don’t have [00:45:50] to stay with me. And he went. Are you mad?

Payman Langroudi: He’s a people.

Cinta Miller: Pleaser. [00:45:55] He went. He looked at me and he went, are you crazy? He went, just adopt. It’s [00:46:00] okay. And he was crying. He went, well, just adopt. And I was just like, this is my [00:46:05] person. It was. It’s just my person.

Payman Langroudi: Did he want kids more than you?

Cinta Miller: Well, the funny thing was, [00:46:10] when I met Liam, at that point of meeting him, because of all the [00:46:15] shit I’d been through, I basically made this. I’d been watching [00:46:20] this guy. I’d been watching this guy on YouTube called Matthew Hussey. Know how to get the guy? [00:46:25] I love.

Rhona Eskander: Him.

Cinta Miller: And I make.

Rhona Eskander: A good podcast.

Cinta Miller: I was like, I’m going to adopt his [00:46:30] mantras, right? I’m going to be I’m going to get the guy. And [00:46:35] it was like the self-worth, the no games, the no nonsense setting your boundaries. And [00:46:40] when I met Liam, I was like, oh, I’m basically looking for my husband. If you don’t want [00:46:45] to get married, don’t waste my time. I’m also wanting to start a family. If you don’t want kids. Don’t waste my [00:46:50] time. And also, I want to be someone’s number one. I don’t want to be with somebody that’s already [00:46:55] got kids and be secondary to their children. I don’t want to be with somebody [00:47:00] that’s best friends with their ex-partner and secondary to them. I don’t want to be best friends with [00:47:05] somebody that lives with their parents, because you’re secondary to the parents as well. [00:47:10] I want to be somebody’s number one. I’m nobody’s number one. All my friends have kids. Their [00:47:15] kids are their number one. I want to be the first person that somebody saves in a burning fire. I’ve [00:47:20] got so many friends. I’m so loved. But I know that I’m not first in line for a lot of things, [00:47:25] and I need that. And he just went. I feel exactly the same. I’ve [00:47:30] never, ever felt number one to anybody. And I went, well, I went, if you go out with me, you will. And [00:47:35] after that date, I literally said to my friend, I’m going to marry this guy. I knew instantly, I [00:47:40] knew. First date love. That first day I said to my friend, I’m going to marry him. Second date [00:47:45] I said to him, we’re going to get married. Third day I was at a wedding and FaceTimed him and said, [00:47:50] this is a really nice wedding venue. We should get married here. And he was like, yeah, we should. Didn’t even, didn’t [00:47:55] even, you know, push back on it. But five years [00:48:00] later, we did get married. We didn’t rush into it, but part of that journey was me [00:48:05] saying I really wanted a family and he just went, not [00:48:10] a problem. We will adopt.

Rhona Eskander: So I mean, like, this is the thing.

Payman Langroudi: Did you adopt? [00:48:15]

Rhona Eskander: Well, before we go on to that. But I’m sure she’ll she’ll tell you about what’s kind of next. But [00:48:20] this is the thing that I find, like so remarkable about Chinta. Like she lost [00:48:25] her biological father, you know, when she was so young. She lost [00:48:30] her mother when she was only 30 years old. She lost her sister, you know, when [00:48:35] she was 31, 32. And then she gets told that she can’t have children [00:48:40] because she has menopause at 32 years old, yet she’s still [00:48:45] one of the most vibrant, positive, you know, people that has created like an incredible [00:48:50] career for herself. And, you know, I think it’s quite remarkable. You know, this is [00:48:55] not the average life of the kind of person, average person you meet. So I think, no, it’s [00:49:00] true. It’s really, really true. And I think.

Payman Langroudi: I worry about the, the kind of the people pleasing [00:49:05] side of that. Do you know what’s funny? Because because like, you know, maybe she’s projecting to you that [00:49:10] perfect happiness. It’s not.

Rhona Eskander: Perfect because.

Payman Langroudi: She’s perfect, but, you know, [00:49:15] happiness, like this thing you’re saying, having gone through all that, she’s this very positive person. Maybe that’s what you’re [00:49:20] seeing, but maybe behind the curtain, you know what I mean? And people.

Rhona Eskander: Pleasers. Right?

Payman Langroudi: People pleasers do that sometimes. [00:49:25] I have to be.

Cinta Miller: Honest, there are times behind closed doors and Liam would [00:49:30] be in agreement. My husband, where I have my lulls and I think everyone has that. You [00:49:35] have to have those lulls to have those highs. I think it’s impossible to be on a constant high. It’s true. [00:49:40] It’s impossible to be on a constant high. I’ve had my lows and like going back to [00:49:45] that. At the same time as my sister passing, my best friend also passed a month [00:49:50] later the same cancer as my sister, so that was hard as well because she was like my [00:49:55] sister, my best friend. You know, your friends are your family. You pick for yourself. But um, when [00:50:00] this particular situation happened of not knowing of [00:50:05] the whole fertility thing and knowing that I couldn’t have children, and I then had [00:50:10] a massive split in friendships, the behaviour [00:50:15] of some of my friends.

Payman Langroudi: Oh, really?

Cinta Miller: At that time, and [00:50:20] the justification of other friends trying to justify other friends behaviour [00:50:25] was just like. You fucking what? [00:50:30] Yeah, but I couldn’t believe people’s behaviour.

Rhona Eskander: But I think that’s the thing. Like when you’re at your lowest [00:50:35] and over the last couple of years I’ve had some really awful low points, really shows [00:50:40] you who’s there and who’s not. It’s kind of ugly. It’s is really.

Payman Langroudi: Ugly. There’s another element to it. Yeah. When [00:50:45] you’re when you’re down, no.

Rhona Eskander: One wants to hang around you. No no, no.

Payman Langroudi: When you’re down, you amplify [00:50:50] what’s going on. So a friend who might say something a little bit hurtful because [00:50:55] you’re down, you see that as massively hurtful. And the opposite, the friend who does something a little bit nice, [00:51:00] you think, oh, they’re the most wonderful. It happens. I’ve seen it before, but.

Cinta Miller: I [00:51:05] basically I got told I couldn’t have children.

Payman Langroudi: And how [00:51:10] did you feel like.

Rhona Eskander: Like how did you feel?

Cinta Miller: I [00:51:15] felt. Useless, [00:51:20] really? Yeah. I felt like I’ve achieved all of these things. [00:51:25] And then the one thing I really [00:51:30] want, I can’t do. But what [00:51:35] I will say is that very soon. And [00:51:40] there’s always been an element of me that felt this way, but very soon I was like, there is a child [00:51:45] and I still very much believe it. There is a child on this earth that [00:51:50] I’m made for. They’re not made for me. [00:51:55] I’m made for them. They need me.

Payman Langroudi: But not having children at all isn’t an option [00:52:00] to you at all.

Rhona Eskander: So tell Payman about.

Cinta Miller: So basically the next option was because obviously I [00:52:05] can’t have children, but Liam can. So I then felt this. Maybe it’s going back to people pleasing. I [00:52:10] had this overwhelming urge of, you know, Liam’s amazing. He said, we can adopt [00:52:15] and I really do want to adopt. And there is a child out there that I’m made for, but [00:52:20] Liam can have children and he could leave me and he could go and have children with somebody else. So where how [00:52:25] do we find a way of making this work? Um, so I went to [00:52:30] a fertility clinic and spoke about ovum donation. Egg donation, the. [00:52:35] I’ll be honest with you, the the hospital that I went to here was the doctor I spoke to was [00:52:40] appalling, disgusting, rude was like, yeah, it’s going to cost, it’s really expensive and [00:52:45] there’s a three year waiting list and you need to make out, make sure you can afford it. And I was like, all right, I’m [00:52:50] not going to spend my money with you then. Um, and a good friend of mine, my friend [00:52:55] Kirsty, had messaged me and said to me, I don’t know whether you want [00:53:00] to hear this, but there is a fertility clinic in Greece.

Rhona Eskander: This is literally the most [00:53:05] famous clinic. There are so many people that have gone to this.

Cinta Miller: There’s a really there’s a clinic in Greece called New Life. [00:53:10] They are amazing. The woman there that runs it is amazing. She treats [00:53:15] you like family. She is a wonderful human. I know her personally. Do you want [00:53:20] me to introduce you to her? She did. I had a zoom with her and she basically [00:53:25] said, we can get you an egg donor. And what they literally do in Greece, [00:53:30] they have a rule where you don’t meet your egg donor. You never know who it’s come from, [00:53:35] and they never know where their eggs have gone. But they basically take your height, your weight, your hair [00:53:40] colour, your eye colour, your bra size. Not like [00:53:45] matching your bra size, your interests, your hobbies, whether [00:53:50] you’ve got rhythm or not, whether you play an instrument, whether you’re a smoker, whether you’re not a smoker, what TV shows you [00:53:55] like, what humour you have. You’re everything down to like, minuscule, [00:54:00] like you’re really. It’s like a it’s like a 15 page document. And they [00:54:05] do that and you do your blood test. We went to Greece and basically 12 [00:54:10] weeks later I got a call to say we found you the perfect match. She’s 22. [00:54:15] She’s willing to do to donate her eggs to you. Obviously you give a donation. [00:54:20] So we did that. And she produced 17 eggs, 15 [00:54:25] of which were mature. 15 were fertilised with Liam’s [00:54:30] sperm.

Rhona Eskander: Sperm embryos.

Cinta Miller: Then um, and we created and 12 [00:54:35] were perfect. We had have 12 perfect embryos on [00:54:40] ice in Greece for ready for when I want to put [00:54:45] them in. Then I then went through the journey of doing a fertility treatment plan to see if my [00:54:50] body would accept those eggs. So I went on like a series of drugs. It thickens your [00:54:55] uterus to cushion it, so when the eggs go in, it will cushion. And it was basically my way of being [00:55:00] like, okay, there’s somebody else’s eggs, but I can grow this baby. The baby will have my blood group. It would be my [00:55:05] child. Um, it would still be Liam’s. You know, it was a way of us having a family. And it’s [00:55:10] there. There. And it’s. It’s funny.

Rhona Eskander: Did you ever start it then? Did they ever implant an embryo?

Cinta Miller: So we [00:55:15] done all the. We did all the fertility drugs. It works. My body is on that. [00:55:20] It works. I know it will work. And it has a really high success rate. Um, and [00:55:25] funny enough, people say to me, why didn’t you freeze your eggs? I was like, well, I was only 30. Why was I going to freeze my eggs? One [00:55:30] and two people freeze their eggs, but when they defrost, they’re actually a lot of them die. [00:55:35] So this is the safer way round of doing it anyway, even though they’re not my eggs. But as [00:55:40] time has gone on, Liam and I are like, there is still a child [00:55:45] out there that needs us. Liam’s a music producer. I have an amazing career, amazing friends. [00:55:50] There is some child out there that whose life can be changed. [00:55:55]

Rhona Eskander: I think adoption is also something that people don’t do enough, to be honest, and I think particularly [00:56:00] in their own countries. My husband is super pro adoption. Actually. He’s really pro [00:56:05] it. Oh me too. And he’s very like, there’s so many children out there that need [00:56:10] you. And it’s really funny. Like, I think probably because I’m of an age now where I’m really [00:56:15] like thinking about the kind of like having a family thing. I have a friend, um, she’s [00:56:20] a psychotherapist, and she’s never wanted children. Like, since I was 12. [00:56:25] She did not want children. And a lot of people are like, she’ll change her mind. She’ll [00:56:30] change her mind. She’s 38 now. Still hasn’t changed her mind. She’s got two dogs. She’s very happy she found a partner. [00:56:35] Her partner? The partner doesn’t want kids either. And we had this conversation [00:56:40] over dinner, and he. He said people [00:56:45] are obsessed with their own DNA and cheated. He [00:56:50] said that this guy, this guy, her partner, he goes, people are obsessed with their own DNA. Like they have [00:56:55] an obsession with producing children because it’s like their DNA. Like they have this fear of [00:57:00] their DNA.

Rhona Eskander: Like leaving the planet. My husband was really offended by that because [00:57:05] he was like, no, like, there’s so much more joy in, like, having children. It’s like more than that, etc.. [00:57:10] And my friend who’s a psychotherapist, she said, look, at the end of the day, I’m a psychotherapist. [00:57:15] It’s not I don’t want to say it’s easy to have children, but like, people are not reinventing [00:57:20] the wheel by having children. And a lot of people have children and they don’t know how to actually [00:57:25] treat those children. And there’s so much neglect with children and there’s so much abuse and there’s so [00:57:30] much this and that. So people have children really irresponsibly, is what she said, without thinking through [00:57:35] the huge impact. You always say to me, you’re like having kids is like huge, you know? It makes it [00:57:40] changes your entire life. You said that to me several times. And, you know, she [00:57:45] also said, like adoption, you know, there’s so many children that have been left, like, neglected or [00:57:50] as orphans or whatever it is, and they need to be looked after. And they they’re also.

Payman Langroudi: Understand [00:57:55] someone who says, I don’t want to adopt.

Rhona Eskander: Don’t want to adopt. Yeah, I think I do.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:58:00] know couples where they can’t have kids. And one of them says, I don’t want to at all.

Rhona Eskander: I understand that, I understand [00:58:05] that you do. Yeah, I do. Of course I do. Do you?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Because it’s [00:58:10] only from the difficulty perspective. Right. I find having kids so hard.

Rhona Eskander: That you think [00:58:15] about if it’s not your.

Payman Langroudi: Own, someone else’s kid. My own kid I find so hard. Yeah, but hold on.

Cinta Miller: Can I pause? [00:58:20] Pause. You there? You’re saying you find your own kids being difficult? [00:58:25] Somebody else’s kid? That wouldn’t be somebody else’s. It’s your child. If you adopt, [00:58:30] that is your child, and that’s where the mindset would have to change.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not your child. It is.

Cinta Miller: Your child. [00:58:35]

Rhona Eskander: I think that’s where men and women differ though, because even so, sorry it [00:58:40] is.

Payman Langroudi: It is your child and that’s the child you’re looking after. But you know, biologically it’s not.

Cinta Miller: Biologically it’s [00:58:45] not your child. But if you choose to adopt, you have to. I think the people choosing.

Rhona Eskander: That child and.

Cinta Miller: Choosing [00:58:50] that child is.

Payman Langroudi: Yours 100% saying, I wouldn’t. I just wouldn’t have any more kids if [00:58:55] I had no kids. Yeah, I certainly prefer somewhere where [00:59:00] I think is, you know, where you get you get gay couples who who [00:59:05] bring a new child in the world. And I think there’s all these children adopt one of them, you [00:59:10] know, and they bring a new child in the world without a mother and.

Rhona Eskander: Because it’s their sperm. But I think [00:59:15] this is what I’m trying to say to you. Like there is the whole, like, DNA argument, right? Like, not from my perspective, [00:59:20] but I think what he was saying is it’s like he’s making a good point, right? Like, why don’t the gay couples adopt? Why are [00:59:25] they obsessed with their own sperm being used? Do you see what I mean? Not obsessed, but like. But what? What is that?

Cinta Miller: Like, maybe [00:59:30] it’s a way of genetically proving that they can still be in a gay relationship and still [00:59:35] have a family, because I think there’s there’s that big misconception or things, [00:59:40] you know, it’s a very dated way of thinking. Back in the day, people thought, off you go, you can’t have a family. [00:59:45] So I think now you can by adopting. But now but now they can. But biologically [00:59:50] I’m speaking because yeah, that’s maybe that’s the way round. But for [00:59:55] me, as I said before, going back to what you were saying about your [01:00:00] friend not wanting children, when I found out I couldn’t have children, my friendship [01:00:05] circle was completely split and I find it weird. I had a friend, well, I [01:00:10] had a friend. I had a friend who really, really, really was adamant she [01:00:15] did not want children. Completely adamant she didn’t want children. When I told her, she was like, oh my God, [01:00:20] there’s me not wanting children and there’s you. And I was like, listen, I don’t I don’t take [01:00:25] offence for you not wanting kids.

Rhona Eskander: Everyone’s Yeah.

Cinta Miller: Yeah. It’s everyone’s journey is their own. And I don’t take [01:00:30] offence. And then she got pregnant and has had a baby and just avoided me like the [01:00:35] plague. And our friendship is dead and gone. Like dead in the water, like she hasn’t. [01:00:40]

Payman Langroudi: She felt awkward around.

Cinta Miller: I don’t know, I had lots of different forms of justification of like, oh, maybe [01:00:45] she felt awkward around you. Maybe this, maybe that. And actually I have another friend [01:00:50] who was who wanted kids, but, you know, who wanted kids and knew what I was going through [01:00:55] and then fell pregnant. And actually I was the first person she told. And I was [01:01:00] so thrilled for her. And I cannot tell you how much joy I have from [01:01:05] my friend’s children, even if I don’t see her very often. Just seeing her kids on, [01:01:10] you know, little Instagram posts and the little videos that she sends me weekly, they bring me [01:01:15] such joy. I literally, I love kids, I find them hilarious. I find them [01:01:20] like, this is what I.

Rhona Eskander: Mean about Shinto. I don’t think this is the people pleasing side because I’m like, you can see she [01:01:25] has no resentment. There’s someone that could have incredible resentment. But that’s why I wanted, [01:01:30] like from the mental health point of view, like, what have you done to become to to put bitterness [01:01:35] and anger like away from like the world, universe, God, like you’re not [01:01:40] angry or bitter or blaming. You’re not. You don’t have that victim mentality because [01:01:45] things have happened.

Cinta Miller: There’s probably Lynn would probably beg to differ. So you probably beg to differ [01:01:50] behind closed doors. There are days where I think to myself, I [01:01:55] think we all choose what we let affect us. And I think there’s other [01:02:00] things that affect me deeper than that. I find inauthenticity [01:02:05] unauthentic people.

Rhona Eskander: But that’s because of the industry you work in, which we’ll come on [01:02:10] to.

Cinta Miller: Authentic people aren’t authentic personas, but. [01:02:15]

Rhona Eskander: That’s because of the industry you work.

Cinta Miller: In that.

Rhona Eskander: Annoys.

Cinta Miller: You, really affects me. If [01:02:20] I see someone in Instagram being a certain way and I know they’re not like that, I’m out. [01:02:25] It pisses me off if I see somebody being successful because of that. It pisses me off. Why? [01:02:30] Because I’m like, you’re. You’re not. You’re not.

Rhona Eskander: A douchebag. I [01:02:35] say this to Payman all the time.

Cinta Miller: Basically, it pisses me off because I think to myself, people are buying into [01:02:40] something. I’ll go.

Rhona Eskander: Into that.

Cinta Miller: People are buying into something that isn’t real.

Rhona Eskander: So there’s [01:02:45] somebody.

Cinta Miller: If they saw that person’s true character, they wouldn’t buy into that person. And [01:02:50] there is a person that does have that true character that deserves.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, [01:02:55] obviously. But when I say why, I don’t mean that. I mean, like, for instance, my business partner, his [01:03:00] bugbear is lying.

Cinta Miller: Oh, my God, I can’t bear it.

Payman Langroudi: Okay. But like, if [01:03:05] someone lies to him, he’s done. He’s really, really, like, hurt by it. Like [01:03:10] it’s massive. Like, I don’t like being lied to. Yeah, but it doesn’t hit me as hard [01:03:15] as it hits him. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So what hits you hard?

Cinta Miller: Yeah. [01:03:20] What hits you hard?

Rhona Eskander: Someone else using other whitening system. Kids festival. [01:03:25]

Cinta Miller: I’m joking.

Payman Langroudi: No, I don’t know. But my point, my question, my why question is why [01:03:30] does inauthenticity hit you so hard?

Rhona Eskander: I think.

Payman Langroudi: Compared to the next.

Cinta Miller: Man, I feel like because [01:03:35] I try to always be the truest version of myself. Why? Because I don’t think [01:03:40] there’s any other way to be. Why?

Rhona Eskander: He’s like this, by the way. He tries to trigger [01:03:45] you. Why? No. But why?

Cinta Miller: But why? I’ve. I feel like I’ve been [01:03:50] put on this planet to be the way I am. I’m born the way I am, and it’s. [01:03:55]

Rhona Eskander: Okay. Listen, can I.

Cinta Miller: Just.

Rhona Eskander: Can I interject? So Chinta works [01:04:00] with a huge number of celebrities. She has huge experience working in the industry, [01:04:05] famous people, musicians, etc. so from both our point of view as well. First of all, you know, [01:04:10] to a degree with the sort of people that put ourselves out there, we’ve got a platform. Et cetera. Et cetera. [01:04:15] But I think that that’s really difficult is that when you see why people are worshipped? And I think the [01:04:20] older I’ve got, I recognise that we worship celebrities. You know, I’m saying we as in like collective [01:04:25] as the world Y. Okay. And then you meet some people and you’re like, you’re not who you say you [01:04:30] are. And I think it’s, you know, there’s so many people that look up to you and so many people [01:04:35] that, you know, buy into what you’re saying, but you’re not even who you say you are. You [01:04:40] know, it’s a bit like when people say, don’t meet your heroes, you know, and it’s and that’s it’s a really difficult thing because [01:04:45] if you’re such an honest person and you convey yourself in your truest [01:04:50] form, it’s annoying and it’s upsetting. And also, from a personal point [01:04:55] of view, if you work really hard and you see somebody that is inauthentic [01:05:00] doing better than you, it’s not necessarily jealousy, I would say. But it’s like you do feel a bit hard done [01:05:05] by. It’s frustration because you’re like, I work so hard. That person is so dishonest. But people [01:05:10] buy into them more and it’s frustrating.

Cinta Miller: You know what else happens? An inauthentic person [01:05:15] likes to look at people like ourselves that are true, [01:05:20] Honest. Listen, I’m, I don’t I people think I’m an extra. I can be an extrovert in some [01:05:25] instances. Other instances. I’m a real introvert. I remember going on tour once [01:05:30] and my. He’s actually my business partner now, a guy called Ashton. And but years ago, [01:05:35] Ashton and I were going on this, this big tour with quite a famous music artist. [01:05:40] And that music artist is said to Ashton is coming on tour with us. And he went, oh. [01:05:45] I like her. She’s coming on tour with [01:05:50] us. And she was like, yeah. He was like, oh my God, we’re not going to sleep. We’re not going to sleep. [01:05:55] She’s going to talk non-stop. She’s going to do our fucking heads in. Oh my God.

Payman Langroudi: I don’t know if I can.

Cinta Miller: I [01:06:00] don’t know. Let me just tell you this. And then we got on tour and at [01:06:05] work I’m like that. And then as soon as the day was over, we were on the tour bus. I was like, I’ll just [01:06:10] let you know. I’ve made you a chicken sandwich. I’ve made you this, and I’m just going to go to bed now at night. And Ashton was like, [01:06:15] where are you going to bed? And he was like, on tour. You were like Old Mother Hubbard. He goes without [01:06:20] you on that tour would have been. It would have been so different because you were so amazing. [01:06:25] And I completely fell in love with you on that tour. And from that day, you’re one of my best friends. And now [01:06:30] he’s my business partner. Because actually, I think there’s a means. There’s a time and a place for being [01:06:35] extrovert. Right? But inauthentic people like to look at people like us [01:06:40] and go, yeah, but they’re trying to be. They’re trying to be famous. They’re trying.

Rhona Eskander: To [01:06:45] be like this in the dental industry all the.

Cinta Miller: Time. They’re trying to be famous. They can’t, you know, they just want their name up in lights. They want we [01:06:50] can’t help that. We’re good at something and are successful, and people want to be around us [01:06:55] and we’re magnetic. But the inauthentic people don’t like it. So there must be something wrong [01:07:00] with us because there’s something wrong with them. They know there’s something wrong with them, so they project that onto [01:07:05] us. That’s what pisses me off.

Payman Langroudi: I’ve got a question. It’s kind of for both of you. [01:07:10] You know, in your job and in your job, right? You’re coming across the [01:07:15] elite to some extent of our society. Yeah. And [01:07:20] and you’re kind of really it’s almost like you you’ve got like this top [01:07:25] table of society and, you know, you can see what’s going on on [01:07:30] that top table, but you’re not on it yourself. Does that frustrate you? Does that what [01:07:35] emotions go through you?

Cinta Miller: I’m going to be really honest. I look at the elite. [01:07:40] Yeah. I’m happy for them. And I’m like, you don’t want it. You stay there. And [01:07:45] it’s not jealousy. It’s not that I don’t want to do it. I’m like, if I happen to get to that point and I’m [01:07:50] there, so be it. And if I’m not, do you know what? I’m going to go home and make myself a [01:07:55] cup of tea and watch Married at First Sight.

Payman Langroudi: Because you do sometimes feel like you’re living [01:08:00] a double life, like, I don’t know.

Cinta Miller: No, not really. And I think that’s part of the reason why I’m successful. Because. [01:08:05] And when I take on youngsters as assistants, [01:08:10] one thing I say to them is like, especially at fashion week, I’m like, there’s loads of fashion week parties. Don’t [01:08:15] be the last person to leave. If you want to go, go and dip your toe in.

Rhona Eskander: When I took her to a fashion party [01:08:20] London Fashion Week, I took her to the most exclusive party. There were all these A-listers like, we’re [01:08:25] here for a good time. Not a long time. Yeah. Don’t be the last one to leave.

Cinta Miller: It’s like. I just feel like [01:08:30] if you want to be part of that world, let me tell you, the A-listers don’t want to be [01:08:35] at a big party for very long. They’re in and out. Yeah, you go and [01:08:40] you set your worth by going. Dipping your toe in and leaving. Because actually, [01:08:45] your worth is your career and your reputation. My [01:08:50] reputation isn’t built on being a party girl, so therefore I’m happy to go. And I always say to my youngsters, [01:08:55] don’t be, um, what’s the word? Gaslit, [01:09:00] blind, whatever, whatever the word is. Don’t get rose tinted glasses by thinking, [01:09:05] oh, I work in fashion now. It’s the Brits. I’m going to the after party and I’m going to go and then go and do loads of drugs [01:09:10] and then wake up the next day, because you’ll just go enjoy it a bit [01:09:15] and I promise you the next day you won’t have FOMO [01:09:20] or you won’t have that beer, fear or whatever. What you’ll be is like, I had such a [01:09:25] short, snappy point of that, like [01:09:30] time at that event that holds such value and you’ll cherish it. [01:09:35] One of my best, one of my best friends was an actress back in the day, and [01:09:40] I used to go to events with her all the time. We used to go in, take the picture, and we were out the back door and within [01:09:45] half an hour at home, face mask on and a cup of tea. Um, and I think [01:09:50] that has been the key to my success. It’s never overstaying my [01:09:55] welcome or being a place where I don’t really need to be.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not only talking about events, though, I’m talking about [01:10:00] just lives.

Cinta Miller: Um, listen, what do.

Rhona Eskander: You mean by lives?

Payman Langroudi: Like, [01:10:05] I don’t know, man. You might. You might go. You might end up at some [01:10:10] on, on some holiday with some people who whose lives are just totally different [01:10:15] to yours because they are these elite types and you feel like you’re [01:10:20] I feel like it’s on the edge of it because I can see what people are doing, but I’m not there. Or maybe I just watched [01:10:25] them eyes wide shut. Maybe that’s why.

Cinta Miller: I think there’s. I also think there’s two different [01:10:30] types of people as well. You know, when you get the elite elite that genuinely do have [01:10:35] like, I’ve got some clients that have got ridiculous amounts of wealth, probably [01:10:40] the same as you, incredibly wealthy, incredibly successful. But they with [01:10:45] that comes with them being incredibly down to earth. Yeah some are. I [01:10:50] find it I don’t find it’s the elite that I like that I feel it’s the people that [01:10:55] are here that think they’ve.

Payman Langroudi: Got to be the elite.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Listen, you get you get [01:11:00] a lot of that in dentistry. I think there is so, so much ego in dentistry. [01:11:05] And I honestly have never seen as much ego in dentistry as I have in any [01:11:10] other profession. I genuinely mean that. And like, I know people in finance, I know people, but it’s [01:11:15] it’s quite remarkable, like some dentists think. And I know that perhaps the older generation [01:11:20] dentists would say the same about me. Like they genuinely believe that they are like these crazy [01:11:25] celebrities. And, you know, I’m like, back yourself. You know.

Payman Langroudi: You can that is you. That [01:11:30] is you. No, no, no.

Rhona Eskander: Look at him, look at him. Listen, I don’t think so at all. Payman be [01:11:35] fair to me, though. Be fair to me, because you have even said to me that you [01:11:40] get shocked at my the lack of my self-esteem and my self-worth. So how can I back myself [01:11:45] if I don’t even believe that I’m good enough? Like that’s a that’s an oxymoron in itself. [01:11:50] So for me, actually, I’ve spent my whole life feeling like I am not [01:11:55] good enough, feeling that I have not made it. And as I get older, I feel old and irrelevant because [01:12:00] of the narrative that has been created around women and their worth as they get older. So [01:12:05] actually I feel more and more worthless in society I sometimes compare [01:12:10] myself to young girls online that are living these incredible lives on private islands [01:12:15] and private jets. And I’ve got this amazing friend called David, and [01:12:20] I call up David, or I go and see him. He works next to me. That’s the one that we’re doing the block party with. And [01:12:25] he goes, um, I go to look at my life. I’m like, taking the bus. Now I’m living this [01:12:30] ratchet little life and like, look at this girl. And he’s like, he knows the ins and outs of [01:12:35] some of these girls and not as all that it seems. You know, there is there is a dystopian [01:12:40] darkness to all of this. These girls that are on the private jets [01:12:45] that are wearing all the hermés bags that appear to be making lots of money online, [01:12:50] there is a darkness. You know, there’s also this entire world of money where [01:12:55] they’re actually being paid for services. You know, that they don’t talk about. And I [01:13:00] didn’t know about all of this. There is even a website called Seeking Arrangements. [01:13:05] So seeking arrangements, um, is where these beautiful women are [01:13:10] being paired up with men, and there’s different levels. No, I’m not joking.

Cinta Miller: There’s different lots [01:13:15] of clients that have been on seeking arrangements.

Rhona Eskander: There’s lots of levels so you can get paid for your company. You can get paid to [01:13:20] be a party with them. You can get paid for other things. And the tiers go on and the moneys go [01:13:25] on. And the problem is, is that once somebody has had a little taste of that kind of life and you’re [01:13:30] talking about elite life, I’m talking about private jets and private islands, right. The problem is, is that [01:13:35] you get used to that. And then on Instagram you might see like, hey, I’m on a private jet, but then there’s darkness associated that, you [01:13:40] know, how does your soul feel? How does your mind feel? And it’s this whole kind of thing.

Payman Langroudi: Even [01:13:45] the guy who owns the island. Yeah, um, his brother might be suicidal [01:13:50] and a heroin addict, or he might be this down to earth guy, you know what I mean? [01:13:55]

Cinta Miller: But it’s when I look at stuff like that, if I’m honest, I see. I [01:14:00] see that, and I’m just like, the reality is [01:14:05] those kind of situations for those kind of people don’t last forever. They have [01:14:10] to make the best out of a limited time. They’re relying on looks certain [01:14:15] you know, the way their body looks, they’re getting surgery or whatever. And listen, good luck to them if they’re happy. [01:14:20] But I know that doesn’t last forever for me. There maybe would have been a time [01:14:25] years ago when I was like, oh, you know, I want to look better. I want to, you know, I want to, [01:14:30] I want to look, I don’t know, I want to look like a Victoria. I want to look like Kim Kardashian. I don’t know, you [01:14:35] look at girls and, like, they’re really attractive and you want to better yourself. But actually, I [01:14:40] think value and wealth really comes from [01:14:45] an insight. It really is. And it’s such a big inside job. As [01:14:50] I said, I I’ve got friends that are incredibly wealthy and I go to [01:14:55] their houses and they’re, they’ve got these beautiful grounds and whatever. And then and I go there and I think to myself, [01:15:00] my eyes and your eyes are the same. You might own this, but I’m seeing it the same [01:15:05] as you, and I’m benefiting from it. I’m enjoying it. I get the same enjoyment from it. I [01:15:10] get the same enjoyment from I can go to a restaurant and I can get the same enjoyment from [01:15:15] a taste. I can get the same enjoyment from this lovely cup of herbal tea. For me, it’s the enjoyment [01:15:20] that that we have that things that money can’t buy.

Payman Langroudi: You [01:15:25] know the cliche, the best things in life are actually free. Yeah they.

Cinta Miller: Are. And I think.

Rhona Eskander: It’s finding, it’s finding [01:15:30] the extraordinary in the ordinary. Yeah. As cliche as that sounds, you know, because [01:15:35] as you said, even going through that horrific stuff that you went through, being on the top of the mountain, like genuinely, [01:15:40] sometimes when you take a moment when you’re not on your phone and you look up at something like a beautiful autumn [01:15:45] day or you know your surroundings, you can find beauty and gratitude in [01:15:50] the, in the, in the ordinary things. Like there’s some days that even when I come to this podcast and [01:15:55] I’m like, oh, I have like mad love for Payman and like what we do, do you know what I mean? It’s like we’re doing like a normal [01:16:00] thing, if that makes sense. It’s nothing extraordinary, but I think you can find it in those little [01:16:05] things.

Cinta Miller: And you know what’s funny as well? This will probably this will probably really make you laugh. [01:16:10] But you know, like you’re saying, you find beauty [01:16:15] in ordinary things. I think the day that I was in Thailand and I looked up and I was like, oh my God. And I was incredibly [01:16:20] lucky. I think that’s when my outlook really changed on things. And I, I every [01:16:25] day I’m really grateful for a lot of things. I’m like grateful. I’ve woken up, grateful. I’m breathing, grateful. I look, I open my curtains [01:16:30] and there’s trees outside my curtains.

Payman Langroudi: Do you what do you make a practice of being grateful?

Cinta Miller: I don’t [01:16:35] make a practice. I just feel that I do.

Payman Langroudi: Is it part of your morning routine to be grateful?

Rhona Eskander: I’ve [01:16:40] started doing it more and more. Like a few things have happened to me in the last couple of years, [01:16:45] and I’ve had no choice but to force myself into situations of gratitude. [01:16:50] Um, it’s.

Payman Langroudi: I was I was going to say sorry.

Cinta Miller: I was going to say something that’s going to make [01:16:55] you laugh. But it’s funny because, as I said, I’ve got friends that live in these incredible [01:17:00] houses and do really well for themselves and yada yada. And I go around there and I’m like, great. And [01:17:05] then, you know, I live in an area that’s really beautiful. I [01:17:10] live in a really beautiful part of the world. I don’t have the biggest home. I have a lovely home. It’s not [01:17:15] the biggest home. And people come to where I live and they’re [01:17:20] like, oh my God, you live inside. Wow, what a beautiful part of the world to live in. It’s like a small, humble home, [01:17:25] but it’s beautiful. And then there are some people [01:17:30] that can go to a mate’s house that have the big house and be like, jealous [01:17:35] or there are. Or you can kind of be like, you could use it to your advantage. I, [01:17:40] I always say to Liam and Liam’s like not having it. I’m like, when [01:17:45] you know, our next thing, what I’d really like to do is [01:17:50] have a by our, like, our forever home and then have like a little pad [01:17:55] in London in a certain area and Liam’s like, yeah, maybe. [01:18:00] And I’m like, well, if it was my choice, I would live in that certain area. Now he’s like, no, you [01:18:05] live in that certain area. You live on the exact road and I’ve dropped you there and I don’t go. Ronan [01:18:10] lives there and I’m not jealous. I’m like, Hallelujah, I’ve [01:18:15] got a mate that lives on that road that I can benefit from. Now I can go down that road. Why do you think.

Payman Langroudi: Some [01:18:20] people are like that and other people.

Cinta Miller: Are jealous? It’s. It comes from a place of lack. It comes from a place [01:18:25] of.

Rhona Eskander: But did you do that work, Chinta? Like with all the losses in your life? Or do you think [01:18:30] that you were like. Or do you think your mum brought you up like that? Or do you think. Because obviously going through what you’ve [01:18:35] been through, there was going to be like moments of, like such deep sadness? Or did you have therapy? [01:18:40] Like how did you get there?

Cinta Miller: Do you know what’s funny? And this is only something I realised as an adult, as a kid, [01:18:45] especially as a five year old kid, we were really poor. Super [01:18:50] poor. We lived. Not that people that live in a council house are poor, but we lived in a council house [01:18:55] in a really rough council estate. My mum didn’t have much money. She was on minimum wage working [01:19:00] at the hospital. Five kids, really poor. But do you know what my mom did? It [01:19:05] wasn’t until I was an adult that I realised we were poor. My mum made us feel like the [01:19:10] richest kids going because my mum sat us at the table, fed us a three course meal [01:19:15] every night. There was pasta, there was chicken, there was salad. She made sure we were [01:19:20] clean. We were bathed every day. We were in clean bed sheets. [01:19:25] We were fed and watered. I felt like I was the richest kid at school I went to. I [01:19:30] used to go to school with a packed lunch of lasagne and sandwiches and pasta, you know, all sorts [01:19:35] of stuff, whereas kids just had like a packet of crisps, a wafer and like [01:19:40] a dead cheese and pickle sandwich. Whereas my mum had [01:19:45] this ability to make us feel like we lived in abundance, and I feel like [01:19:50] that’s what I’ve carried with me.

Rhona Eskander: Abundance.

Cinta Miller: Abundance. And I think that people that feel [01:19:55] that way have come from a place of lack. It’s Comparison. Parents have said, oh, so-and-so’s got [01:20:00] that, bought a car. I bet they’ve got that car. And I will get a better car. I will do this. It’s comparison. And [01:20:05] I actually don’t care about that. If you get something that’s great, I’m thrilled for you. [01:20:10] If you live in the area that I want to live in, I’m coming to meet you for a coffee every Sunday. And I’m going to make [01:20:15] it work. Work to my favour.

Payman Langroudi: Comparison really is the comparison.

Cinta Miller: It’s [01:20:20] just awful.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So I could sit and talk to you for ages. [01:20:25] Thank you so much for sharing your truths and your journey for us. To us. [01:20:30] Journey to us. Um, I think you’re amazing.

Cinta Miller: And you’re amazing, and [01:20:35] I think you’re.

Rhona Eskander: Amazing. Um, and thank you for, you know, sharing everything. For those of you that want to [01:20:40] know, um, her Instagram handle is chin to London. She’s an incredible makeup artist doing music [01:20:45] as well. I have been on the iconic website for doing my makeup, [01:20:50] so she is amazing and incredible. And thank you so much for being here today.

Cinta Miller: Thank you for having me. Thank you. Cheers. [01:20:55]