[VOICE]: This [00:00:05] is mind movers [00:00:10] moving the conversation forward on mental health and [00:00:15] optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts Rhona [00:00:20] Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Rhona Eskander: Hey [00:00:25] everyone, welcome to another episode of Mind Movers. As always, I try to bring some of the most interesting, [00:00:30] eclectic guests to you to share stories of inspiration and most [00:00:35] importantly, try to understand how these people overcame adversity. I think it’s so important [00:00:40] that we understand people’s stories, what makes them who they are. Before we [00:00:45] jump to the conclusion that it’s luck and I’ve got one of my amazing patients and an [00:00:50] incredible content creator makeup artist, Boss Woman also has her own [00:00:55] podcast, so we’ve got Adiola Boga. She’s a seasoned makeup artist, A beauty expert [00:01:00] with over a decade in the industry experience. Having collaborated with prominent beauty [00:01:05] brands, she is renowned for her skin first philosophy, emphasising the crucial role of [00:01:10] exceptional skincare in achieving flawless makeup. Through her online tutorials, she [00:01:15] shares her coveted glow techniques, fostering a devoted community of followers known as [00:01:20] glow getters. With a commitment to enhancing beauty through education, Adeola is [00:01:25] a beacon of radiant inspiration in the makeup world. So welcome! [00:01:30]

Adeola Gboyega: Thank you for having me.

Rhona Eskander: It’s so fantastic to have you. So Adeola, [00:01:35] I like to start from the beginning. Tell us, are you actually a London girl? [00:01:40]

Adeola Gboyega: No, I’m not actually. So I used to live in London. That’s like where I started, but I actually [00:01:45] live outside of London, in Hertfordshire. Now when I say Hertfordshire, everyone’s like, oh, where? Because it’s such a big area. [00:01:50] Um, so I actually live in Cheshunt. Um, but I used to live in north London, [00:01:55] so that’s kind of where I started. Um, And then we moved out of London and then kind of slowly [00:02:00] edging back in. So yeah, I love that.

Rhona Eskander: And tell us a little bit about your childhood. Yeah. [00:02:05]

Adeola Gboyega: So my mum’s a single mum. She raised my sister and I and obviously [00:02:10] like, you know, there’s been difficult aspects of my childhood and it’s not always been easy. [00:02:15] But one thing that was always, you know, at the forefront was just seeing my mum work really, really hard. [00:02:20] And she’s a teacher herself, but she’s retired now and she was always the one [00:02:25] that, you know, advised me that whatever you do, just be passionate about it. And I think because she’s a mum [00:02:30] now, I’m Nigerian and she saw what it was like when you had like parents that made you [00:02:35] do certain careers that you weren’t happy and passionate about, i.e. becoming a doctor or a lawyer. You [00:02:40] know, being Nigerian and being African, you’re kind of told and expected to kind of do certain jobs. [00:02:45] And I think my mum saw the kind of opposite side of that where, you know, people were working [00:02:50] in jobs that they weren’t happy about. So she always said, you know, I don’t mind what you do, just be happy. And [00:02:55] that’s kind of like where it all started. But she was honestly somebody that I really looked up to, and I [00:03:00] just realised that whatever I do, I know that I need to work hard to be successful.

Rhona Eskander: So obviously [00:03:05] I come from a middle eastern background. I’ve got lots of Nigerian friends, and one of the big common things [00:03:10] that we had in common is the onus on education. So you just said that your mum [00:03:15] just wanted you to kind of be happy and make sure that you work hard. Did that mean that she was okay, [00:03:20] for example, with you not being in a career that was vocational or something [00:03:25] that would have definite security?

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah, I think for me there was always [00:03:30] different things I wanted to do. At one point I wanted to be a paediatrician, and then I did work experience working in a hospital. [00:03:35] And then I realised I’m way too emotional for this. I could never do it. And especially in a role [00:03:40] like that, you have to kind of like go in and do your job and then not bring it home. And but I’m very [00:03:45] much a person that’s very empathetic and I care about people and I always want to kind of support them. And I think [00:03:50] for me, I couldn’t have like gone into a job like that. And then at one point I wanted to be [00:03:55] a TV presenter. There were so many different things that I wanted to do. But she always made me realise [00:04:00] that, you know, just do your schoolwork, get your education, go to university. That was her only thing that I [00:04:05] had to go to university. And then I studied media and communications because I wasn’t really sure exactly what I wanted [00:04:10] to do, but I knew that I wanted to work in, you know, media, magazine, print. And also I loved [00:04:15] beauty. And so I actually did my career or my sort of like, course thinking [00:04:20] I was going to like, you know, work in glossy magazines such as Vogue. And then that didn’t really happen for me. [00:04:25] Like my degree was very different for what I expected. And but I did my degree, [00:04:30] I got a tutu and I felt like I made my mum happy. But then after that, I then thought, do you know what [00:04:35] I have to do? What makes me happy? And that’s when I then retrained as a makeup artist.

Rhona Eskander: So [00:04:40] you know what’s interesting? I mean, excuse me for asking this. You should never ask a lady how old [00:04:45] she is, but are you a millennial?

Adeola Gboyega: I think I am, yeah. Yeah. When were you? 35. I’m 35, [00:04:50] so I think I’m a millennial. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So growing up, what I really remember [00:04:55] as being so prominent is beauty standards that were really unattainable for women like [00:05:00] you and I. And the reason why I say that is because there were front covers of Kate Moss and [00:05:05] skinny white women, and I remember going to university and a lot of people [00:05:10] being perplexed when I used to get asked for modelling or asked to go to castings because [00:05:15] I didn’t fit that certain type of beauty standard. I found that really, really hard [00:05:20] growing up, and for me, that deterred me from the beauty industry. It didn’t necessarily [00:05:25] want me to go into it because I just thought, I’m different. I’m not considered beautiful, so [00:05:30] why would I go into something like that? What’s your experience of that, [00:05:35] and what was your experience of black beauty and, you know, feeling inspired to go into the beauty industry. [00:05:40]

Adeola Gboyega: So I didn’t again, like see a lot of examples of, you know, um, [00:05:45] black women working in the beauty industry. And if I did see anyone, it was someone that I felt was very [00:05:50] far removed. So I know we were talking earlier about Pat McGrath. You know, she’s a successful black makeup artist, [00:05:55] probably the most influential black makeup artist in the world. But unless you’re in [00:06:00] that area and in that industry, you wouldn’t really know that who she was. And that’s why I think [00:06:05] I struggled and kind of felt found it quite difficult to kind of go into my career and went into my career quite late. [00:06:10] Um, so it wasn’t until after I did my degree that I actually then retrained as a makeup artist. And probably [00:06:15] because of that and why I think it’s so important to have representation, because maybe if I’d seen other [00:06:20] makeup artists or was in the midst of others that I felt really inspired by, I would have felt that I could [00:06:25] have gone into that career a lot earlier.

Payman Langroudi: Um, we get that in dentistry too. So I [00:06:30] had Yewande here and she was saying she never considered being a dentist until she saw [00:06:35] Uchenna. Yeah. Do you know Uchenna? Okay.

Rhona Eskander: Was it Uchenna.

Payman Langroudi: That inspired on the TV and saw [00:06:40] that someone who looks like her could be a successful dentist?

Adeola Gboyega: Absolutely.

Payman Langroudi: That’s what she went through. But [00:06:45] the when you say a black makeup artist, is it necessarily that a black make up artist [00:06:50] knows about black skin, or is that not necessarily the case?

Adeola Gboyega: I mean, I feel like as a makeup artist, the [00:06:55] key strength should be that you should be able to do every skin tone just depending on who you are and [00:07:00] what your skin type is and what your skin tone is. But unfortunately, it isn’t that case, you know, [00:07:05] and I think even when I trained as a makeup artist and I would go to school, it was literally like a small [00:07:10] like segment of our sort of syllabus was being taught about black skin. And I feel like that is again [00:07:15] the downfall of like the education and teaching in terms of like not giving us like, you know, [00:07:20] a long sort of like time and a slot to kind of understand, like skin tones, complexions and the complexities [00:07:25] of it. Um, and so again, I think it’s so, so important to have that representation [00:07:30] because to your point, it was only for me being able to be in the midst of those industries and see [00:07:35] later on in life, I thought, actually, I could do this. I didn’t feel like I could before. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Was your mum [00:07:40] strict? Nonetheless, Nigerian mums and dads tend to be. Or [00:07:45] was she not? Was she out of the box in that sense.

Adeola Gboyega: She was strict, and I did have a strict upbringing, [00:07:50] but I think it’s because we went through a lot and I felt like she had to be very protective of me. So, for example, I didn’t [00:07:55] have my dad actively in my life like looking after me. So again, there was a lot of like her making [00:08:00] sure that I was looked after on her part because I didn’t have a dad or a father figure around that could [00:08:05] support me in that sense. And so, yeah, in some elements she was, but at the same time, she was very [00:08:10] open in terms of like, if I feel like there’s a certain career that I wanted to go for. Yeah, go and explore it and see how you feel. [00:08:15]

Payman Langroudi: Because in the community, when you tell someone, I’m in beauty. Yeah. Is there still [00:08:20] stigma? Do they still sort of because.

Rhona Eskander: You know, like the the thing that my parents are so [00:08:25] proud of is, um, when you say you’re going to be a doctor and I’m sure that’s like in the Iranian, you know, like, my [00:08:30] son’s a doctor, my daughter’s a doctor, you know, they love that. And it’s very hard to deter [00:08:35] away from that. And it’s almost like above all in life, but they’re a doctor. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:08:40] someone I know fell in love with a dancer. Yeah. And she was. She was a fantastic, like, modern [00:08:45] dancer used to go all over the world like dancing, touring. And, uh, her parents said, what do you mean? You’re [00:08:50] going to marry a dancer? Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: Like social media has changed that because I think now. Because [00:08:55] now people.

Rhona Eskander: Are gonna be like, I’ve fallen in love with a YouTuber. Do you know what I mean? Like, watch out. Your kids [00:09:00] might come home and be like, dad, I’ve fallen in love with, like, a TikToker. Do you know what I mean?

Adeola Gboyega: You know, like, I feel like that is [00:09:05] like when you ask kids, now, what do you want to be when you grow up? Before it might have been, I want to be a doctor. I want to be this [00:09:10] and that. Yeah. Now it’s like I want to be a content creator.

Payman Langroudi: The new president of Romania that has [00:09:15] just become, or just about to become the president of Romania, did not exist in the political scene until [00:09:20] six months ago. And then he did a TikTok only campaign. Only on TikTok, nowhere [00:09:25] else. And he’s about to become president of Romania. Yeah, this Trump character is right winger.

Adeola Gboyega: And [00:09:30] this is literally like the power of social media and how it just changed everything. And, you know, the question that you asked me [00:09:35] earlier about is there like a stigma? I think back in the day. So I started my in the industry in about 2012, [00:09:40] and obviously I didn’t have social media then. It wasn’t like a big thing. But [00:09:45] I would obviously like get a few comments, like, I’ve gone to university and I’ve done media and communications [00:09:50] and now I want to go and become a makeup artist, kind of like, oh, where’s that come from? But then now it’s like, you [00:09:55] know, everyone refers to me, oh, Adeola, you know, I know her, but she’s on, you know, social media. So it’s definitely [00:10:00] changed now because of social media. Absolutely.

Rhona Eskander: I want to reflect [00:10:05] and rewind a little bit now because you said representation is really important. Um, [00:10:10] I had a conversation with a guy that I met on Sunday. [00:10:15] Uh, he was um, from I think he was half Chinese, half [00:10:20] Jamaican. Um, and he was saying openly, you know, he’s the one that brought up the conversation [00:10:25] that he thought that Black Lives Matter wasn’t necessarily something [00:10:30] that was helpful to the community [00:10:35] or to his representation. And I thought that was an interesting stance. And it’s always important to hear [00:10:40] other people’s stance, because from my perspective, I was so happy that that had happened. Obviously not the events, [00:10:45] but the representation, because all of a sudden I was seeing black people at the forefront [00:10:50] in fashion, beauty, other industries, and that made me really proud and really happy. And [00:10:55] I thought for all those years of oppression, you know, you can never undo what had been done. [00:11:00] But, you know, they deserve to have the limelight. They deserve [00:11:05] to have the opportunities. I want to ask you how you felt about that whole movement, [00:11:10] and whether you think it was a good thing or a bad thing, and how it affected the beauty industry in [00:11:15] particular.

Adeola Gboyega: I think it was a moment that kind of stood still for a lot of people, [00:11:20] because when you think about when it happened, it was during lockdown and I, you know, really remember [00:11:25] that time because it was just it was just such a [00:11:30] crazy time at the at the time when it all happened. I think this is why it’s [00:11:35] important to take everybody’s individual experiences into consideration, because obviously Black Lives Matter as a movement [00:11:40] is so important, and it did highlight a lot of things. But again, like each individual [00:11:45] person’s experience is different. So that person’s experience was kind of like I found it quite negative. I didn’t love it [00:11:50] and it was a very negative time, especially for black people, because again, the highlight is on you [00:11:55] and then people are coming to you for answers. So I remembered a lot of my friends that weren’t black were [00:12:00] like messaging me, being like, oh, you know, was there ever a time that I maybe did something wrong or, you [00:12:05] know, is there anything that I could have done differently? And there was a lot of pressure for me to kind of feel like I could give them [00:12:10] some sort of like, relief, because they obviously felt guilty about a lot of things that they were going through. [00:12:15] But it was good because it highlighted a lot of things. For example, you know, even to this day [00:12:20] as a black woman, makeup artist, content creator, I don’t get paid nearly enough as [00:12:25] what my white counterparts do.

Rhona Eskander: So there’s still a pay gap.

Adeola Gboyega: Even to this day, and [00:12:30] to the point where Black Lives Matter was an amazing, you know, situation because it highlighted a lot of things. [00:12:35] But even now, I still feel like the change that, you know, people say has been made or it kind [00:12:40] of like highlighted, it’s still going back. If anything, I don’t know if it even did actually change. [00:12:45] Really. 100%. Absolutely. That’s so.

Rhona Eskander: Interesting. Yeah, I think [00:12:50] I had heard as well that there was still a pay gap issue. But why do you think that is? And why do you think [00:12:55] that.

Payman Langroudi: Companies the size of the market isn’t as big?

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, the size.

Adeola Gboyega: Of the market isn’t that big. [00:13:00] Um, unfortunately, I feel like a lot of companies and brands don’t see value in, [00:13:05] you know, black content creators, black makeup artists. And I think a lot of the time people [00:13:10] feel like they’re paying for, you know, for example. Okay, well, I know that [00:13:15] it’s it’s it’s good to be seen that I’m supporting and paying a black content creator, [00:13:20] but they’re still going to pay you less than, for example, a white content creator, because they feel like they’re just [00:13:25] ticking a box and it’s something that they have to do, but they still don’t see the value. And when someone doesn’t see the value in something, [00:13:30] their actions aren’t going to change. They’re going to do it because they feel like they have to. But when you ask them at [00:13:35] the core, like, do you feel like they got paid better or the right amount? They’re probably [00:13:40] going to agree and be like, actually, no, because they would have paid another content creator that’s done exactly the same job and can pay [00:13:45] campaign that I’ve done. And the fee that they got was marginally more than what I would [00:13:50] have got paid. But at least they’re going to be like, but at least we’ve given our money, or at least we’ve paid that person. [00:13:55]

Rhona Eskander: Do you challenge the brands on that?

Adeola Gboyega: Yes and no. Because obviously there’s a [00:14:00] part of me that’s kind of like, well, at least I’m getting paid. When you’re self-employed and you’re working for yourself, there’s obviously a responsibility [00:14:05] that you have to obviously make money. Um, but then I also I do my due diligence. [00:14:10] I have some amazing friends in the industry. Um, you know, someone like Lisa Potter Dixon, who I love dearly. [00:14:15] You know, she really supported and helped me when I was coming in the industry. And we have open conversations about [00:14:20] money and finances. And I think that’s a very important thing, because when people don’t talk [00:14:25] about things, how are you meant to know? When I came into the industry, I wasn’t having conversations about pay, so [00:14:30] I was getting paid thinking, actually, I think I’m doing okay. But it was only when I started speaking to other people [00:14:35] that don’t look like me and actually seeing like, the massive pay gap, that’s when I was able [00:14:40] to kind of be like, actually, I can fight my corner now and I have a leg to stand on and have a conversation because I [00:14:45] know what other people are getting paid. But do you.

Payman Langroudi: Do you worry that, like on the other side of it, that sort of the [00:14:50] tokenism of it?

Adeola Gboyega: Absolutely. And it still happens. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: The people are including [00:14:55] you because they kind of have to from the and it still happens.

Adeola Gboyega: And there’s, you know, there’s a good and bad [00:15:00] part about it. You know, I want to show up for things because I think it’s important for people to see that I’m in those [00:15:05] spaces. But at the same time, I also got to think, well, actually, is it [00:15:10] actually helping me by being in those spaces if I don’t feel like it’s genuine? And so I won’t work with a brand [00:15:15] that’s not genuine. You know, I will go onto their page and see, have they worked with any other black and Asian [00:15:20] content creators or anyone that you know isn’t just a white person? Because I think it’s important that [00:15:25] you’re not just working with me, but are you going to be working with others throughout the line? Is it going to be consistent? Consistency [00:15:30] is key.

Payman Langroudi: And have you got access to. When I say access, do you are [00:15:35] you paying attention to the culture, the pop culture in Africa? [00:15:40] And I mean, Nigeria has got some massive music acts now. So like you’d imagine that’s [00:15:45] where there’d be beauty brands popping out of as well. Yeah, there’s.

Adeola Gboyega: A huge, huge business. I [00:15:50] went to Nigeria about two years ago now, and there’s a lady called Erica [00:15:55] Freemantle who has a platform called Airtel, and it’s basically embracing [00:16:00] all tones of women. And she actually did a, um, sort [00:16:05] of thing where she kind of invited loads of different people from the beauty industry, dentists, [00:16:10] and we all actually went to Nigeria and actually went to kind of see what businesses like out there. [00:16:15] It’s booming like it’s huge. You know, there’s a lot of people that have a lot of money. Obviously [00:16:20] there’s a lot of, you know, and.

Rhona Eskander: Nollywood is huge.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah, Nollywood is huge.

Rhona Eskander: Nollywood is so [00:16:25] there’s Hollywood, Bollywood, Nollywood. Oh really. Yeah. And Nollywood. So when I went to Nigeria, one of my best friends [00:16:30] Ceci. Her twin sister is a Nollywood actress. Wow. Um. And [00:16:35] I was like, opened up to this completely different world. But like Nollywood is absolutely huge, massive, [00:16:40] huge. It’s, you know, really, really big. And the beauty.

Adeola Gboyega: Industry is huge over there as well.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Does anything [00:16:45] manage to jump over and come into Europe from there?

Adeola Gboyega: I wouldn’t say you should be that person, [00:16:50] but I think the other way round is then there’s a lot of people that are actually like leaving the UK and going back home because they [00:16:55] see that there’s massive opportunities out there, and I even saw that myself. Yeah, yeah. But again, it’s a lot about who, you [00:17:00] know, it’s very important to have good relationships and very like strong relationships out there because, you know, [00:17:05] you can go to Nigeria and make really serious money overnight if you know the right people and make [00:17:10] the right connections. Absolutely.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, 100%. I mean, Nigeria fascinated me as well because [00:17:15] I actually went thinking it was going to be this like beautiful, untouched, like Haven. [00:17:20] And I was really disappointed because what was very stark to me was the amount [00:17:25] of corruption there was in the country. And they don’t look after their people. They don’t look after the country. [00:17:30] There was mounds of rubbish everywhere. And I was like, hang on a second. And then you go into these like incredibly [00:17:35] beautiful homes, you know, that are done up and you can really see that the government’s intentions [00:17:40] aren’t really with the people. So it was quite an interesting thing for me to see from a cultural point of view. [00:17:45] Yeah. Um, but no, I’m really, really fascinated [00:17:50] by what you’re saying. And I do think representation really matters. Dentistry is a funny [00:17:55] one, isn’t it? Because white people are like a minority in dentistry. You know, you get barely [00:18:00] any white people, so the majority would be Asian. And then like, there’s a lot of Iranians [00:18:05] and some Middle Easterns as well. Very few white people and very few [00:18:10] black people. And I think, you know, there’s also like medical societies now for that representation [00:18:15] for black doctors and dentists, which I think is super important as well. And I feel really passionate [00:18:20] about that. Obviously, you know, being a middle eastern woman, it’s really different. But [00:18:25] I remember like the bullying I got during university for being Middle Eastern [00:18:30] or even, you know, being labelled as like coming from a terrorist country or my parents, [00:18:35] you know, certain, um, prejudices against my parents. Like it was really tough for me. [00:18:40] And so for me, I’m like, yeah, you know, this stuff really matters. And I guess I’ve been a little [00:18:45] bubble because when I was seeing that representation come through, I was like, this is great. Things are [00:18:50] changing and I think things have changed, but more needs to be done. What do you think could be [00:18:55] done more?

Adeola Gboyega: Again, I think just valuing the [00:19:00] valuing the kind of content creators, the makeup artists and what they actually [00:19:05] kind of bring to the table. Um, you know, for me, I’ve really wanted to kind of give back and [00:19:10] kind of make sure that when I’m in those spaces, what can I do to kind of help the next generation? Because [00:19:15] I didn’t really have that when I was first starting. It was very much, what could I do to prove that I need to be here? [00:19:20] I didn’t really have anyone to kind of support me when I first wanted to become a makeup artist. [00:19:25] And so now it’s like, well, what can I do to kind of support anyone that’s up and coming? So I remember like for example, when [00:19:30] the Black Lives Matter movement happened, I didn’t really want to have a lot of conversations about what was going on [00:19:35] and kind of like have negative conversations. So I just said, look, if anyone’s in the industry that, you know, wants [00:19:40] to go into beauty and, you know, are from like, you know, black and ethnic minorities, [00:19:45] we can have like a one hour zoom session and I can kind of help you and support you because I just felt like, let [00:19:50] me focus my energy into the areas that are more important and where can I support? Because I think [00:19:55] that’s a really, really important thing. I don’t want to be having conversations about, woe is me. I’m not getting opportunities. [00:20:00] Yeah, victim. You know, I don’t want to be in that victim mentality. There’s so many things that have happened in my life [00:20:05] that people won’t even know about. If I kind of was in that victim mentality and mindset, [00:20:10] I’m always like, okay, well, this has happened. What can I do to kind of make it better? Um, and [00:20:15] so I think that’s a really important thing. But again, I think in the industry there needs to be more value placed on [00:20:20] black creators, on black people and what they’ve actually essentially brought to the table and how it’s so important [00:20:25] to the industry.

Rhona Eskander: So what kind of things have you overcome in your [00:20:30] childhood teenage hood that have built up your resilience?

Adeola Gboyega: So for me, my [00:20:35] mental health was something that I very much struggled with, but I didn’t realise how badly until I got a lot older. [00:20:40] And so, like we were having this conversation earlier about how I really suffered with high functioning [00:20:45] depression. So I’ve always been someone that’s very much into like working hard [00:20:50] and it’s worked in my favour. I’ve had some amazing opportunities that have arisen from it. [00:20:55] But then when, for example, things didn’t really work out in my, you know, career [00:21:00] and I was having a very difficult time and I wasn’t really kind of getting the sort of, um, [00:21:05] not necessarily like the payback, but when I wasn’t really getting the kind of experiences that I wanted [00:21:10] or felt like I deserved, I really, really suffered with my mental health because for me, it was always like, well, if I [00:21:15] give 110% in my career, I’m going to get X amount back. But it doesn’t always work that way. So [00:21:20] I had to really understand and unlearn that my value isn’t placed in like me achieving [00:21:25] things. So I was always like high achiever. Amazing opportunities. Opportunities always keep busy [00:21:30] and I’m always going to be happy. But then I would have those things and I was still chasing that happiness, [00:21:35] that quote unquote happiness that I was expecting. And it didn’t always happen that way. And so I had to really [00:21:40] unlearn that and then obviously go to therapy to kind of really help myself in that space.

Rhona Eskander: How old were you when you started therapy? [00:21:45]

Adeola Gboyega: So I had an initial, um, round of therapy when I went to my doctor’s [00:21:50] one time and I was like, I’m really struggling with my mental health. I think I was about [00:21:55] mid 20s. Um, and then obviously with that it was great. But [00:22:00] then you only get a certain amount. So there’s obviously struggling with.

Payman Langroudi: Your mental health. Just talk [00:22:05] me through it. What does that actually mean with panic attacks or.

Adeola Gboyega: No. Constantly crying. [00:22:10] Constantly crying. Yeah. Constantly crying like any little thing I would cry. Triggered. Triggered. [00:22:15] Yeah. Um, what else would it be? Always working, constantly [00:22:20] working. Like for me it was like work, work, work, work, work.

Payman Langroudi: And then if you stopped working, you’d get [00:22:25] sad. Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: So for example, lockdown. Yeah. I’d never experienced being at home for that amount of time. Every [00:22:30] job that I’ve had would be me travelling constantly. Um, so for example, when I was working at Bobbi Brown, [00:22:35] I was a pro makeup artist, so I would literally get a calendar and it would say, [00:22:40] you’ll be in this city tomorrow, you’ll be in Manchester tomorrow, you’ll be in Birmingham the next day. I was hardly ever [00:22:45] at home. And then when I worked for Pat McGrath, it was the same thing. I think I probably travelled to over like ten, [00:22:50] 15 countries in one year. Um, constantly on the go. Do you feel.

Payman Langroudi: You didn’t also enjoy [00:22:55] the bits you should have enjoyed? You were like.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah, exactly.

Payman Langroudi: Like the in like watching yourself [00:23:00] from above or something.

Adeola Gboyega: So like outside, everyone would look at me and be like, oh my God, I do always have this, like glamorous [00:23:05] experience. Like you’re travelling constantly, but then I’m coming home and I’m literally like [00:23:10] crying. Crying, like upset all the time. Wasn’t enjoying things. And it just got to the point [00:23:15] where I just felt like even my job, which is the thing that used to bring me so much joy, wasn’t making me happy [00:23:20] anymore. Um, and.

Payman Langroudi: Was it just talking that helped? Or did you take medication? [00:23:25] Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: So I was prescribed antidepressants, but then I decided against it because [00:23:30] I think, again, there was a stigma where I felt like if I then start taking medication and then I become [00:23:35] dependent on it, then there’s the fear of that. If that stops working, what’s going to be next?

Payman Langroudi: Um, [00:23:40] but therapy itself helped a lot. It did.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah. Because one thing I have to, you know, explain [00:23:45] with therapy is that it’s an ongoing thing. And I’m even thinking about going back again. I think people think that, oh, it’s [00:23:50] like a band aid that you go to therapy for ten years.

Rhona Eskander: I’m still going. I’m still going. Literally. Yeah. [00:23:55]

Adeola Gboyega: And I tell people all the time, it is a journey because you go through different stages of life. For example, [00:24:00] how I function with my depression now is very different to how I functioned with my depression five [00:24:05] years ago. You know, I could meet someone tomorrow and be married or have children. [00:24:10] How am I then going to cope with that? And so I have to kind of think about myself in different facets and how my life [00:24:15] changes and how my mental health is going to change. And so I might need to go back in and be in and out [00:24:20] of therapy to be able to kind of deal with that.

Payman Langroudi: And then what happens? The therapist talks to you and then [00:24:25] you go in the end. Does he say, does it become a in your childhood being scared thing?

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah, [00:24:30] I think.

Payman Langroudi: It gets to a point.

Adeola Gboyega: Where you then start to feel like, okay, I’ve outgrown the conversations [00:24:35] that we’re having, and I kind of feel like I’m in a good space, but then it doesn’t mean that that door is closed and [00:24:40] you can never go back again. It might even be as well that you might go to a different therapist, because they might specialise [00:24:45] in a certain thing. So for me, it might have been, for example, childhood trauma. And so I kind of [00:24:50] like worked with a therapist that really worked with that. And then next time it could just be about, okay, anxiety [00:24:55] or depression and how I’m kind of navigating life as an adult now. So again, it’s very important to kind [00:25:00] of like go to see someone that specialises in whatever it is that you’re dealing with at that time.

Rhona Eskander: I think also like, [00:25:05] look, my partner gives me a bit of a hard time because he’s like, you do so much therapy and coaching, [00:25:10] but like, what’s the point in just doing this copious amounts if you don’t have like boundless changes. And [00:25:15] I’m like, but that’s not the whole point. Because boundless like boundless change. Like you should have, like you [00:25:20] should big changes, you know, like in what you’re doing. But I’m like, that’s not really how [00:25:25] therapy works, because the therapist also has to work out things. They cannot tell you what to [00:25:30] do or how to behave. You have to sort of change your pattern of thinking. They [00:25:35] can challenge you depending on the type of therapy that you’re having. And it’s like that slow change [00:25:40] in thought patterns that can then change the behaviour.

Payman Langroudi: Do you want to talk about [00:25:45] what happens to you? I mean, yeah, she says she cries. So what happens to you?

Rhona Eskander: So what happened [00:25:50] was I first went to a therapist when I was.

Payman Langroudi: Like, what happens to you when you’re down? Like, so she cries.

Rhona Eskander: Um, [00:25:55] so what happens when I experience sense of [00:26:00] I tend to go in serious fight or flight mode. And what I recognised [00:26:05] is, is that my threat is emotional. [00:26:10] So when my threat is emotional, I go into a state of panic, and [00:26:15] I would say that a number of things can happen to me, like I can get shortness of breath, [00:26:20] but it’s also about catastrophic, like catastrophizing. Yeah, the [00:26:25] thought process. So like the emotional thing makes me feel like I’m going to die. Like, so, for example, [00:26:30] if I’ve gone through a Break-Up, I’m like, oh my God, like, this is so awful. [00:26:35] Like, I want to kill myself. Do you see what I mean? Now you see it, now.

Payman Langroudi: You see it for what it is.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. [00:26:40] Kind of. But I think I hate being in that discomfort. Yeah. So the, the [00:26:45] the one thing that I want to do is self-soothe. And the one thing that I recognised about myself [00:26:50] when I was really young is that I don’t drink or take drugs [00:26:55] because I have a addictive personality. So sobriety was always a part of who I [00:27:00] was. But I think every human being, as someone like Gabor Mate recognises, [00:27:05] has some form of addiction. You know, he says that you could be even addicted, Twilight, whatever, for argument’s [00:27:10] sake. But I think that for me, I want to self-soothe. And my addiction [00:27:15] was validation. So my addiction was people telling me that I’m good enough. I think you’ll [00:27:20] find that that’s something that a lot of people on social media have as well. It’s why you’ve [00:27:25] got you’ve got this perpetual belief that you’re not good enough. And then people say, but you put yourself [00:27:30] out there. But then the pain of feeling not good enough actually propels you to put yourself out [00:27:35] there, because you want other people to tell you that you’re good enough. You know, it’s a sort of weird cycle that goes [00:27:40] on.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s where it becomes very difficult because people see you on [00:27:45] social media being super confident, and then they can’t understand, like, how can you be like that? [00:27:50] But I think this is where there’s danger, because people then have a certain perception of you and they don’t understand that [00:27:55] you could be struggling with something like that. And the trolls come. Oh, 100%. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: And you know, [00:28:00] Payman knows like and the trolls come and the trolls will come and be like, you’re so ugly, you need this, [00:28:05] you need that. And then I’m just like.

Payman Langroudi: Just the other side of you. Yeah. You without this, this [00:28:10] pod here and we’ve all been on your page. Looks at me. Looks [00:28:15] like. Looks like fun time.

Rhona Eskander: No.

Payman Langroudi: But. But then. But then on this pod, you say, [00:28:20] oh, I’m fat or something. I’m like, you’re not fat or I’m not enough or something.

Rhona Eskander: And I [00:28:25] think, I think it’s also the other thing is that, you know, the thing is, is that the state [00:28:30] of happiness is not about having more or to search for the exterior that you believe will make [00:28:35] you happy. It’s actually being happy with what you’ve got. And I think the problem is, is that I get in [00:28:40] a real compare and despair, because I will look at other people around me. I’m really blessed to have patients [00:28:45] like Adeola, like all these amazing influencers, but sometimes I’m like, if I was as [00:28:50] successful, pretty thin, you know, fun, [00:28:55] whatever it is as them, I would be happier because more people online would notice [00:29:00] me.

Payman Langroudi: We all have something, right?

Rhona Eskander: Totally, totally. But I think, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think that your Gabor mate point. [00:29:05] Yeah, or I might eat too much or, you know, Whatever it is, we all have something that keeps us, you [00:29:10] know, on the level. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got really, like, burning question for [00:29:15] an expert in the beauty industry. Yeah. Yeah. So, look, both of us have products. Mhm. Yeah. [00:29:20] Oral care products. And oral care is nowhere near as mature as skincare. [00:29:25] Right. And I walk with my daughter in a Sephora area, and she shows me, like, [00:29:30] 15 new brands that do different things or whatever. And I love it.

Rhona Eskander: You take your daughter to Sephora? [00:29:35] Just saying no. She takes me.

Payman Langroudi: She takes me. She knows I’m involved in packaging and all that. [00:29:40] So she’s showing me the packaging of the products. But okay. And I and I [00:29:45] listened to some of your stuff, and you’ve worked for Bobbi Brown and Clarins and and many other [00:29:50] big brands. How much of it is the brand, [00:29:55] sort of what the brand stands for, and how much of it is the [00:30:00] actual product that, that, that you’re using? Because how can it be? You’ve got 300 [00:30:05] brands. More, right? Yeah. You’ve got 506 [00:30:10] step processes here. How can it be that each of these are different? And when I listen to my [00:30:15] daughter and I watch my daughter, she’s into what brand values more than the products. But [00:30:20] then there are certain products that she says, oh, these are so just just talk me through that because [00:30:25] we’re, we’re at we’re doing toothpaste. Yeah. Yeah. I [00:30:30] bet you can’t name more than four toothpaste. You know, like so toothpaste. For some reason, it stops at [00:30:35] the lips, right? Yeah. And suddenly toothpaste has become a thing, you know, with hi smile and [00:30:40] moon and those things. So talk me through how much of it is brand when you’re looking at a at [00:30:45] a at a beauty company? And how much of it is products?

Adeola Gboyega: It’s a [00:30:50] very good question. Yeah, it’s such a good question. And I think this is and you know, I always [00:30:55] talk about social media because I’m so fascinated by it. But it’s because now there’s such a [00:31:00] democracy in terms of everybody has a voice. Yeah. And everyone has a voice.

Payman Langroudi: Voice? [00:31:05] Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: Because brands can only do so much. They can obviously like, do the packaging and then obviously they’ve got their [00:31:10] marketing. But at the end of the day, if someone doesn’t have an affinity with it and doesn’t kind of bond with [00:31:15] the message or the product, they’re not going to use it. So, you know, when I think of Rona, what you’ve [00:31:20] done is that you’ve created a community, and that’s why people love you and they come to you. And like, for example, when I think [00:31:25] about the kind of people that were coming to you, I came into, you know, have my teeth done because of that. [00:31:30] And I think that’s where it’s very important. You can only go so far with a good product. It could be the best [00:31:35] product out there. But I think what people are looking for now is what does it mean when I use [00:31:40] that product? What does it signify? So for example it could be this toothpaste is [00:31:45] amazing. But then I’ve seen, for example, another celebrity that I actually really admire that’s literally vetoed [00:31:50] that thing and said, it’s an amazing thing. Oh, I now feel like I’ve got a piece of that product. And also [00:31:55] I’m kind of like slightly aligned with said person. When I first started working in the industry, [00:32:00] I remember working for a skincare brand and they didn’t even have foundations for my skin [00:32:05] tone. This was only, what, 1012 years ago? Same. And I literally [00:32:10] vowed to myself that I’m never, ever going to work with a brand that doesn’t represent me. And it’s so important because [00:32:15] there are brands out there that are making millions of money, but don’t even care to actually have a selection [00:32:20] of foundations and products that actually service everybody. And it’s still happening [00:32:25] to this day. And I think that’s where it’s very, very important. For example, I even feel like we have too much product [00:32:30] now.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I mean, the number of the.

Adeola Gboyega: Number of things that we have, it’s just overwhelming. [00:32:35] And that’s with us being in the industry and being experts and actually knowing what we’re doing. Imagine everyday consumer [00:32:40] like going into places like Sephora. Where do they even start? I mean.

Payman Langroudi: Look, you could ask the same question about clothes, [00:32:45] bags, absolutely. All of those things. Yeah, it’s I think, you.

Rhona Eskander: Know, you the [00:32:50] community piece I think is such an important thing. And I [00:32:55] sometimes feel like my messaging, for example, on Instagram is a little bit confused because [00:33:00] I don’t actually think I’ve built up a strong enough community. What I have been lucky is [00:33:05] to have very strong, incredible women behind me that helped me build a [00:33:10] certain community. You know, Melissa’s wardrobe, beauty in the blog ush. You, [00:33:15] you know, and I was really lucky. And what I loved about that community was as they [00:33:20] represented automatically diversity, authenticity and the clients that I got [00:33:25] off the back of that. And it was funny because there’s a lot of people that follow basically all of you, for, if that makes sense, [00:33:30] that then come to me like, oh, I saw your Melissa and then I saw you in Adeola, or I saw you on YouTube, or I saw you on Michelle’s, you know? And [00:33:35] so it’s kind of like, you know, that the same sort of people actually follow you guys. And so [00:33:40] I’ve been able to have that teeth is a funny one, right? Because I think it’s one of [00:33:45] the only medical professionals where it’s function and beauty. And if you think about it like [00:33:50] medicine, dentistry. Yeah, dentistry. Medicine is actually quite divisive in a way, because you’ve [00:33:55] got the aesthetic industry and then you’ve got the dentist that like save the heart and the brain and they’re like, they would never [00:34:00] do aesthetics, you know? And it’s very divisive. Whereas in dentistry, you literally [00:34:05] can’t have pretty looking teeth without having healthy, functional teeth. It’s impossible. If your gums are bad, the aesthetics [00:34:10] will fail. If you’ve got tooth decay, the aesthetics will fail. Does that make sense? It’s one of the only places [00:34:15] where you’ve got to kind of, like, marry both of them up and it’s accepted. Yeah, exactly. [00:34:20] But I also think that there.

Payman Langroudi: Is on this product’s question. Yeah. So let’s say [00:34:25] I like I like what’s that drunk elephant love drunk.

[TRANSITION]: I love that you [00:34:30] know that as well. Love it. Yeah I like.

Payman Langroudi: I like that one. The [00:34:35] ordinary.

[TRANSITION]: Okay. Yes.

Rhona Eskander: I don’t I really don’t like it for clinical for me.

Payman Langroudi: Well, you know, I [00:34:40] don’t know anything about them. Yeah, but these are, these are. I’m just throwing out urban decay. Yeah, [00:34:45] yeah. Now.

[TRANSITION]: If if me and you.

Payman Langroudi: If me and you want to make a new toothpaste [00:34:50] brand. Yeah. Which of those brands do we copy? Copy [00:34:55] in inverted commas. Yeah, I can. So what’s your favourite skincare brand and what would that toothpaste [00:35:00] look like?

Rhona Eskander: No no no. But listen, when we were.

[TRANSITION]: Skincare.

Rhona Eskander: When we were designing Parler, I’m going [00:35:05] to tell you now, when we were designing Parler, immediately, we didn’t want to be like the big conglomerates. [00:35:10] And immediately there were three brands. Me, Simon and Ardeche were copied, like, not copied, [00:35:15] but were inspired by Aesop. Yeah. Le Labo maybe it was ordinary, but you see, [00:35:20] that was a feel of.

[TRANSITION]: Like trusted.

Rhona Eskander: Clinical and beauty because you [00:35:25] don’t want to be too beauty. Yeah. The gold toothpaste. Come on. Do you know what I mean? Like, there’s a bit like. Does a dentist [00:35:30] approve of this? Yeah. Whereas you need to speak. And also there is something I’m going to put it out there, guys, [00:35:35] about Scandinavian Swiss brands that you trust. I just trust everything Scandinavian, Swiss, [00:35:40] those things like. And so again Aesop. I know Le Labo is French, but you know like you get that sense of like [00:35:45] I trust them. I trust the Scandi.

[TRANSITION]: So you went you.

Payman Langroudi: Went that route.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah we went Aesop’s Australian. [00:35:50] Is it? Yeah. Are you sure? Yeah. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Okay, fine. But you know what I mean.

Adeola Gboyega: Who [00:35:55] am.

[TRANSITION]: I? Who do.

Payman Langroudi: I mean? I know you’ve worked for, but. But for instance, Pat.

[TRANSITION]: Mcgrath, you said. Yeah. [00:36:00]

Payman Langroudi: What a new ones that you’re interested in. And tell me some of the legacy ones that you like, as.

Adeola Gboyega: In like [00:36:05] makeup or skincare?

Payman Langroudi: Both. I’m talking about brand values rather than products.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Adeola Gboyega: So there’s one brand [00:36:10] that I absolutely love. So she’s a black founder. Her name is called Danessa Myricks. I love her because [00:36:15] she again is very good at storytelling and her products are just so innovative. [00:36:20] So she’s always thinking, how can I offer solutions to people’s [00:36:25] everyday woes? And I think if you’re always working from that kind of like stance point, you’re never going [00:36:30] to fail.

[TRANSITION]: Because technically.

Adeola Gboyega: Yes, I.

[TRANSITION]: Think so. Is that no.

Payman Langroudi: Is that what you mean? Solutions.

[TRANSITION]: Technical solutions? Yeah. [00:36:35]

Adeola Gboyega: Technical solutions. But also as well, you know, if she knows, for example, people are always worried about oily skin. [00:36:40] She’s going to create a product that’s going to help with that. And I think that’s very important because if you’re just doing [00:36:45] it because you’re going to hop on a trend, which I think a lot of brands are doing now. Yeah, there’s always going to be other brands that are going to do [00:36:50] that. But if you’re making really good sort of like theoretical products that actually work. The formulations [00:36:55] are good and they’re servicing the concerns that people have. You’re always going to do well. [00:37:00] But also I just love that she is very passionate about what she does and she still does Instagram [00:37:05] lives. Like, for example, her brand is so successful that she could literally be like, it can run its course, it’s going to do well and I don’t [00:37:10] need to be here. And that’s why I admire people like yourselves, because, you know, you you don’t have to be as [00:37:15] far as front facing as you are, but you do it because you’re passionate about it. Like, I love that you still [00:37:20] do TikToks. You still do videos. Like not everybody has to do that, but I think it’s very important.

Payman Langroudi: Skincare. The one [00:37:25] I’ve noticed. Trinny. Trinny London. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Done very well.

Adeola Gboyega: She’s done really well. But again, it’s because people [00:37:30] buy into her. Yeah. People buying her.

[TRANSITION]: Community.

Adeola Gboyega: Secondary. You know, they buy into who Trinny [00:37:35] is first and then they buy into the products afterwards. And I think when you’re leading from that kind of stance point, [00:37:40] you’re always going to do well.

Rhona Eskander: I want to challenge you on that, though, because I’ve seen a lot of content creators [00:37:45] 1 million, 2 million, 3 million followers. They bring a product out and it flops. So if they’ve bought into the person, [00:37:50] why has the product flopped again?

[TRANSITION]: I think it’s difficult.

Adeola Gboyega: It’s difficult, but also as well, it’s the lack of [00:37:55] community. Just because you’ve got numbers doesn’t mean that you’re engaging with your community, doesn’t mean that you’re servicing [00:38:00] them. For example, if you’re not doing things like Instagram Lives or you’re not actually actively speaking on stories, [00:38:05] how are you going to do well? Case in point, everyone’s.

Payman Langroudi: Examples aren’t there.

[TRANSITION]: There’s examples [00:38:10] on Melissa’s wardrobe.

Adeola Gboyega: She’s in a massive you know, she’s an incredible [00:38:15] person that I really look up to. But also I really absolutely adore because she’s a really good example of somebody [00:38:20] that is just so authentic and genuine, but has a real conversation with you on her stories. [00:38:25] You know, go on her page. It’s very beautiful, it’s very aesthetic. But at the end of the day, she will literally [00:38:30] be at home, hair tied up in a bun and having a conversation with you as if she’s having [00:38:35] a face time and you know she’s talking to you about real life things. You know, when she shared her story recently about [00:38:40] the end of her? Yeah. It’s real. Everybody’s going through all of those things. Doesn’t matter how successful you are, everyone’s [00:38:45] going through real life stuff. That is what people are buying into.

Payman Langroudi: There are examples where it’s worked, [00:38:50] for sure. The other way around. Right? So Glossier was a blog before it was a product. Huda [00:38:55] was a blog before it was a product. The Kardashian stuff like. There are examples [00:39:00] where community came first and product second.

Rhona Eskander: I think now it’s a little bit more difficult. [00:39:05] I was actually listening. I don’t know if any of you had, um, have listened to the podcast date yourself. Instead, [00:39:10] there’s a content creator called Liz Date yourself instead. Okay, so it’s [00:39:15] this. It’s this content creator called Liz. Um, and I really like her because I listen to all the self-help [00:39:20] stuff, and she does a lot about, like, the kind of, like, self-love and self-care and everything like that. And [00:39:25] she was talking about how and she’s created a very successful podcast, and she was saying that when she first started the podcast [00:39:30] industry, that people she saw people that had like 7,000,008 [00:39:35] followers and their podcasts flopped because she was saying, like, you can’t just assume because you’ve got a number on one [00:39:40] platform, it translates into another. And it’s completely different on like a podcast platform. [00:39:45] And I think, yeah, I think that that is also a really interesting [00:39:50] point. Being real and being authentic, I think is really important. You two.

Payman Langroudi: You two, [00:39:55] as women, tell me, what is the mental health side of [00:40:00] looking beautiful? Making yourself pretty. Like, is that a thing?

Rhona Eskander: I think so, [00:40:05] for sure. Yeah. I don’t really get dressed up like, look, I’m.

[TRANSITION]: You don’t get dressed up, and [00:40:10] I. Listen, you don’t get dressed up, my love.

Rhona Eskander: You haven’t let me finish my sentence. I don’t get dressed up for men, per [00:40:15] se. Because, because because. Yeah, but like, women love dressing up for women all the time. Obviously. Because we [00:40:20] notice things like. Did you notice my nails today? No, but she did. Yeah, exactly. [00:40:25] So, so basically, like, we noticed those little things about each other. [00:40:30] So I think that looking good is a form of self-care in a [00:40:35] way where you think like, you get up, you do like a routine. I find it, like, quite meditative.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:40:40] again, how come that doesn’t transfer into Dental? Like, what do you mean? Like, why can’t you get like a, like a [00:40:45] water flosser with your favourite mouthwash in it and feel like you’ve looked after yourself. [00:40:50] I do.

[TRANSITION]: I love doing my oral hygiene routine.

Payman Langroudi: You’re a dentist?

[TRANSITION]: No she does.

Rhona Eskander: My patients love it [00:40:55] now.

[TRANSITION]: I love it. Oh, really?

Payman Langroudi: You see, a self-care, like in the same way. Absolutely.

[TRANSITION]: How interesting. It’s [00:41:00] changing. I love that I treat.

Rhona Eskander: I treat a lot of the beauty influencers, and they [00:41:05] will now treat their teeth care as their skincare routine. They are now. They’re invested in coming [00:41:10] in every three months for airflow.

Payman Langroudi: Guided biofilm, whatever. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: She goes and sees.

[TRANSITION]: Anna for airflow [00:41:15] all the time and then, you know.

Rhona Eskander: Flossing, brushing. She might text me, being like, oh, [00:41:20] did a tiny bit of bonding come out with my flossing, you know, and I’m.

[TRANSITION]: Like, because, you know, from the.

Payman Langroudi: From the prevention [00:41:25] side. Yeah. Like, you know, dentists job is to, you know, save teeth right from the prevention [00:41:30] message just isn’t sexy. But if it was a self-care message.

[TRANSITION]: But I’ve always said that. [00:41:35]

Payman Langroudi: No, but in the in the brushing in the in the cleaning side.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah I think it’s coming [00:41:40] to the forefront now. Yeah. But so much more.

Rhona Eskander: I don’t know if you saw we have a colleague of ours, Doctor Victoria. She was just [00:41:45] on Stephen Bartlett’s podcast talking about the oral microbiome. And, you know, Payman [00:41:50] said, like it was such a strong message because obviously with Stephen Bartlett’s platform, um, [00:41:55] now people are going to brush their teeth. Like how many millions of people are now going to brush their teeth? Like, that’s so amazing [00:42:00] because we can all get the message through to people. Even our own patients brush twice a day, every day. So [00:42:05] she was.

Payman Langroudi: Talking about.

[TRANSITION]: Diabetes, dementia, fertility, all those. But at the.

Rhona Eskander: End of the day, people are motivated [00:42:10] by selfish factors. Let’s be honest, because if they spend thousands of pounds on their bonding or veneers and [00:42:15] then you tell them they don’t brush their teeth, it’s all going to fail. They’re going to brush. Yeah. If people are told that [00:42:20] they’re infertile and that their saliva could have something to do with it, they’re going to brush. You see, people [00:42:25] have to see like feel something tangible.

Payman Langroudi: The Periodontists weren’t very happy with all of that, right?

[TRANSITION]: So we’ve got.

Payman Langroudi: Specialists [00:42:30] who say.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Tell me.

Payman Langroudi: The worst thing about being in the beauty industry. [00:42:35]

Adeola Gboyega: Um, comparison. I think it’s very important to have that conversation [00:42:40] because I think, you know, when you’re actively working in the industry, [00:42:45] especially with me being more of a content creator. Now, part of my job is to obviously like, [00:42:50] you know, be on trend and see what’s going on. But then that means that you’re consuming more social media, and then obviously you’re seeing [00:42:55] what other people are doing and you’re comparing yourself. And for someone like myself that, you know, the [00:43:00] average person might look at that and be like, oh, I’m happy within my life. But then I just dissect it and like, go into it even [00:43:05] more and then start thinking about it and overthinking. That’s when it can become very challenging.

Payman Langroudi: And also compare [00:43:10] yourself with other content creators. Is that.

Adeola Gboyega: Other content.

[TRANSITION]: Creators? Naturally. Is that what you mean? [00:43:15] Yeah, absolutely.

Rhona Eskander: Of course. Because also, like if you see someone that’s successful.

[TRANSITION]: On TikTok, [00:43:20] you have to.

Rhona Eskander: Understand what they’re doing right. And then naturally. But also like, I just hate being stuck [00:43:25] to my screen. That’s why I didn’t really when I started YouTube. And now I put the podcasts [00:43:30] on there. Youtube is a full time job, like, I don’t want to be stuck. Even like if you have an editor, you’ve got to [00:43:35] check stuff. They’ve got to check these podcasts. And like, I don’t want to be stuck forever to [00:43:40] your phone Like you’re naturally going to just be more unhappy.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah. And it’s a constant rat race that you feel [00:43:45] like if I don’t post for a certain amount of days, I then start feeling a lot of anxiety about, okay, I need [00:43:50] to post now, but then what do I post? And have I missed out on certain things? So yeah, it’s just [00:43:55] a constant thing. There’s so many different things that I can speak about, but comparison would be one of the biggest ones. Um, [00:44:00] and also just feeling like you’re not living in the moment because everything can be like an Instagram Instagrammable [00:44:05] moment. Absolutely. So you’re always thinking, oh, I need to take a picture of this, or I need to do that. And [00:44:10] some days I just don’t want to be on my phone. And it’s really difficult also as well. You know, you have [00:44:15] your social media friends and your community in that sense, but you’ve also got to realise that you have [00:44:20] your real life friends, like my childhood friends, my family, and a lot of them haven’t been on social media or are [00:44:25] not on social media by choice. And so I then have to realise that how [00:44:30] I do things is not how they do things. For example, if I’m taking pictures of food, they might not want to take pictures [00:44:35] of food or I can’t ask them always to like take my content and take pictures of me because they don’t want to. [00:44:40] They just want to, like, have a good meal and enjoy themselves.

Rhona Eskander: But it is annoying. Like, you know, sometimes when you’re with someone [00:44:45] and they want to take 700 photos, you know, before they’re happy. I’m actually not one of those people. She’ll [00:44:50] vouch for me.

[TRANSITION]: You’re not at all. But. Yeah. Do you.

Payman Langroudi: Mean creators want to get it perfect. [00:44:55]

[TRANSITION]: Before they put it?

Rhona Eskander: Like even my makeup artist, Ahmed Cookie. You’re going to meet him one day.

[TRANSITION]: Like him?

Rhona Eskander: Like, [00:45:00] sometimes it’s like 700 photos before we get the right shots. Do you see what I mean? And I’m just like. [00:45:05] I’m like, I want to enjoy the dinner.

[TRANSITION]: Or the moment.

Rhona Eskander: Or walk. You know what I mean? Or like whatever. So sometimes [00:45:10] it becomes like a little bit more difficult. And I think that that’s the only thing that I’m worried about [00:45:15] because I think, like, the more that we’re stuck to our screens, the more we’re entering this [00:45:20] like Black Mirror. Oh, yeah. Um, vortex that we’re not going to be able to get out of.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. [00:45:25] I bet.

Payman Langroudi: This this toxicity and ego.

Adeola Gboyega: All the time. But then I feel like that’s with every, [00:45:30] like, workplace. I always like I also look at social media as my job. You know, the same way that you would [00:45:35] go to a corporate job and there’s going to be toxic people and there’s going to be, you know, all that kind of stuff. It’s the same thing. [00:45:40] You know, there’s people that you meet in the industry and then you’re acquaintances. You have to realise that a lot of them are [00:45:45] not your friends. Play the game. Yeah, 100%. You have to go in there and realise that these are not my real friends. [00:45:50] My real friends are the people that will check in on me. And, you know, we’ll have like open conversations, [00:45:55] not the conversations that you have that are surface level when you go to these events, you know, and it’s the same with the corporate [00:46:00] world or any sort of like work place that you’re working in. It’s exactly the same.

Payman Langroudi: And do you think that [00:46:05] I always think with make up artists, there’s this sort of feeling that you’re on the edge of [00:46:10] the edge of the famous people and, you know, like because you must meet so many [00:46:15] famous people, right?

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Do you get that? Not so much.

Adeola Gboyega: Now, because I feel like my bread and butter and where I make the [00:46:20] majority of my income is content creation. And actually, that can be quite lonely because you’re working for yourself and by [00:46:25] yourself and you’re working at home. Um, but then you don’t get fazed by that, because when you’re [00:46:30] going into, you know, the industry. As a makeup artist, before social media, the makeup [00:46:35] artist was always behind the scenes. You were never in front of the camera. It’s different now because now you can kind of [00:46:40] forge a really great career by being camera facing and being at the forefront. Um, but before, [00:46:45] you know, you dressed in all black. You were there to be, you know, you weren’t there to be seen. [00:46:50] You were not there to be heard. You were there to do your job. Yeah. You might be privy to conversations and [00:46:55] whole point of you being asked back and actually to have those relationships, because no matter what you saw or [00:47:00] what you heard, it never goes past that room. So I’ve been privy to a lot of things, but again, [00:47:05] it was never part of my job to kind of be enamoured by the celebrity. No one that actually goes into [00:47:10] being a makeup artist is about it because of the celebrity, because you work bloody [00:47:15] hard and half of the time you don’t even get to see or or like kind of reap the benefits of all those things until [00:47:20] much later on in life.

Rhona Eskander: Question for you. Do you agree with [00:47:25] content creators that work in the beauty industry [00:47:30] being very vocal about the experiences that they’ve had with [00:47:35] clients or brands in a way that might be deemed as derogatory. [00:47:40]

Adeola Gboyega: Yes and no. Um, I think if it’s going to be [00:47:45] an opportunity for you to voice something that might incite change, then yes, but [00:47:50] you have to be very mindful that when you then do that, you can’t then turn back. There’s been loads of experiences [00:47:55] that I’ve had where I could have spoken up about it and said something, but then I also feel once [00:48:00] I kind of divulge that information and share it, can I then go back, for example, that’s [00:48:05] going to ruin that relationship with me and that person. What does that have a knock on effect in terms of like [00:48:10] brand partnerships that I might have, because a brand might look at that and think, well, she’s spoken about a brand experience [00:48:15] that she’s had with that one person.

[TRANSITION]: She’s risky.

Adeola Gboyega: She’s a risky person to work with. I’m always [00:48:20] thinking about my reputation because I always feel that reputation is that thing that’s always on that [00:48:25] kind of knife edge, whereby any little thing can happen and it can just change 100%. [00:48:30] And there’s this real cancel culture. That’s very scary at the moment, whereby something could [00:48:35] happen to someone and it could just be like a minor mistake and people can just run with it and [00:48:40] that can be someone’s career over in a flash. It’s scary.

Rhona Eskander: So I’ve got a question for both of you. [00:48:45] You might not know this. You will definitely know this because you’re on TikTok. Someone like Bonnie Blue, who’s [00:48:50] had a lot of press about Bonnie Blue.

[TRANSITION]: No, see, I knew he wouldn’t know. I’m on TikTok.

Payman Langroudi: Hours every day, [00:48:55] though.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah, so.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not with.

Rhona Eskander: Bonnie. Blue is a content creator who’s 25 [00:49:00] years old. She became very famous. She earned £600,000 [00:49:05] a month month. She started off in OnlyFans and she decided [00:49:10] to be very creative with her content, as she puts it, by going out on [00:49:15] freshers week and sleeping with as many people.

[TRANSITION]: As possible and.

Rhona Eskander: Like her parents are involved [00:49:20] and she would say that she’s empowered and that the women that are judging her are the Karens [00:49:25] at home. I don’t know if you saw the interview with Ashley James and she basically says that [00:49:30] she is providing an educational source for young boys, [00:49:35] girls, etc. and obviously Ashley made the point. But how is it educating? You know, you’re actually [00:49:40] perpetuating this belief that, you know, women are there for sex, etc.. So [00:49:45] my question for you is this. And I think about this because now there’s some [00:49:50] other girls that are also following her. They’re like 22. They’re like, I love to be sexually [00:49:55] active. If I can make money from it, then great.

Payman Langroudi: It’s important [00:50:00] that someone, a woman, should be able to say, I like to be sexually active.

[TRANSITION]: Correct. But do [00:50:05] you really think that for that question to you, is.

Rhona Eskander: This both of you, do you really think [00:50:10] that content creation has got so far that people are doing the craziest, wackiest thing? Or do you [00:50:15] really believe that we’re sleeping with 100 people a day, which is what they want? One [00:50:20] of them wanted to do not Bonnie Blue, the other girl, Lily Phillips. That is truly making [00:50:25] her happy.

Payman Langroudi: No. Look, man, it’s art.

Rhona Eskander: Is it? Yeah. Like, [00:50:30] have we become a generation of, like, where we’re living in this black, mirrored dystopian [00:50:35] reality? No.

[TRANSITION]: It’s true. Well, the answer to that is yes. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: That people don’t care [00:50:40] about ethics, morals and value because they’re like, do you know what? Like, there’s other girls, for example, in [00:50:45] OnlyFans. I need to stand out. So I’m going to do something completely shocking and different.

[TRANSITION]: But listen.

Payman Langroudi: You say ethics [00:50:50] and morals. Yeah. If she was going to campuses and taking people on a run. Yeah. [00:50:55] That would somehow be okay. But because.

[TRANSITION]: She’s going running.

Rhona Eskander: And taking people’s virginities are somewhat [00:51:00] different.

Payman Langroudi: But but you know that you’re reinforcing that we can’t talk about sex, [00:51:05] and we can’t. Not by saying that. By making that an ethical question. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: It’s not that [00:51:10] because like you said.

Payman Langroudi: It’s not an ethical.

[TRANSITION]: Question. It’s not.

Rhona Eskander: About that. Because the point is, is that she knows, [00:51:15] like with anyone, that this goes for men and women. Like you’re 18, you’re not [00:51:20] that developed maturity wise. You’re just not pay.

[TRANSITION]: This goes for men and women. You go to a [00:51:25] bar for me, but then go to a when you’re a 26 year old.

Rhona Eskander: You are far more developed. So to me, [00:51:30] whichever way it works, you know, there is a degree of vulnerability and responsibility [00:51:35] that comes with dealing with 18 year olds. That’s my view. And that’s that is an [00:51:40] ethical question. You’re right, you’re right. I’m an 18 year old.

[TRANSITION]: Not so much.

Payman Langroudi: You’re writing so much as if you said [00:51:45] 16 year old, which would still be legal. Yeah, I would have a problem with it. So there is a line. Yeah, there [00:51:50] is, of course, 16 and.

Rhona Eskander: 18 is a line. Did you.

[TRANSITION]: Hear that? Yeah, exactly. So you heard it from her. [00:51:55] You are wild. I know I’m making your point for you.

Payman Langroudi: I’m making your point for you. Yeah. If it was 16 year [00:52:00] olds, I would have a problem. But, you know, there is a line, right? I just think it’s art, man.

Rhona Eskander: If you want to go and learn from her [00:52:05] because it’s art.

[TRANSITION]: I support.

Rhona Eskander: You in your decision.

[TRANSITION]: Okay? And we.

Rhona Eskander: Can move [00:52:10] on from that.

[TRANSITION]: Conversation.

Rhona Eskander: So what is [00:52:15] your vision for the future? Adeola.

Adeola Gboyega: God, this is a really good question. I’ve [00:52:20] been thinking about potentially bringing up my own range of product. Um, I [00:52:25] mean, like, early stages, like, you know, I have a mentor now that’s helping me kind of, like, have a discussion [00:52:30] about it. Um, you know, I want to have someone to consult with me because I think it’s very important. [00:52:35] One of the things that I think is very important in terms of success is to speak to somebody that’s already done what you’re trying to do. [00:52:40] Um, because obviously everyone’s made mistakes, and I know that if I was to go in there blind and try [00:52:45] and do it myself, I’m not going to make as much impact as if I spoke to someone that’s already launched a [00:52:50] brand or somebody that’s worked in that industry. Um, for so long, I was kind of like, does anyone [00:52:55] want more product? But then I also think, again, people buy into me. People are always asking me, what’s [00:53:00] the best mascara? What’s the best skincare product? So even with the fact that we have so much choice, [00:53:05] people still want to speak to you individually because they trust you.

Rhona Eskander: It’s unbelievable because some [00:53:10] people still message me saying, what’s the best, what’s the best? And I’m like, I’m constantly talking.

[TRANSITION]: About stuff.

Rhona Eskander: And [00:53:15] tagging stuff like do a little bit of like clicking, you know what I mean?

[TRANSITION]: Like just kind of.

Payman Langroudi: This is kind [00:53:20] of why you started Paula though.

Rhona Eskander: Her How? What? Why? People always ask. Yeah. For sure. Like, people [00:53:25] were always asking us. And then, you know, when you look into the brands that pay you or like, want to do, you start looking [00:53:30] into them and you’re like, what are their ethics? What are their values? What are their ingredients? And then we recognise that we could offer something [00:53:35] like better. I mean, I bought into used enlightened. No.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah. I had it when [00:53:40] I was having my teeth done. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: This is the best Payman brand.

Rhona Eskander: So I [00:53:45] bought into enlightened as a brand because for me, like, there was another competitor on the [00:53:50] market that really tried to route me into working with them and, like, just didn’t feel aligned to [00:53:55] it. Whereas, like, enlightened isn’t your standard whitening because the big thing about it is it’s much more [00:54:00] expensive. It really is, but it just aligned with me. Whereas like the cheap brands [00:54:05] just I just felt like it. I had a problem with even like telling patients like there’s this [00:54:10] option because and I do still do that because I’m like, look, there is the cheaper option. There isn’t. Listen to me, enlightened is the best because [00:54:15] I will give them that option. But I still struggle because there’s this like lack of alignment. You know what I mean? And [00:54:20] for me, it’s it’s not just about the I know how much Payman like, puts into the branding [00:54:25] and the ingredients and things like that. And that’s something that I will always I buy into that stuff [00:54:30] with everything, with the, the food that I put in my body with, like everything that I do. So [00:54:35] I think.

Payman Langroudi: For you doing your own brand. Yeah. The I mean, you know, I [00:54:40] would say beware. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: It’s hard.

Payman Langroudi: I would say, don’t [00:54:45] even think about whether it’s worked or not for five years. Yeah, yeah. Like [00:54:50] if it works in year six, that’s still a massive success. Yeah. Yeah. Now, hey, [00:54:55] it might happen in the first year and go berserk. Yeah. Um, and I would say, you know, have [00:55:00] a financial partner. Yeah. Yeah. Like, because if it’s a six year project. Yeah. Bring [00:55:05] in someone who understands. Unless you understand how to raise money and all that. No.

[TRANSITION]: You know.

Adeola Gboyega: This [00:55:10] is why it’s really good to have, like you said, like, speak to someone that knows. And, um.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:55:15] would look at incubators. You know? You know what they are.

[TRANSITION]: No. What are they?

Payman Langroudi: So you go with your business plan to this, to [00:55:20] this incubator, and then they they either fit you up with the right people and then and [00:55:25] then show you the process right, and tell you whether they think it’s a good idea or not, take [00:55:30] you through the first few bits and get you into the sort of the whole thing of professionalising. [00:55:35]

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: I would also say one thing, like one thing that’s really important. I wondered if you ever did that. But I do [00:55:40] think a mentor is invaluable. And I’ve had several mentors and for me that [00:55:45] is I think, like you said, I really you know, my biggest bugbear is [00:55:50] people that give you advice that haven’t even done what you want to do or have achieved anything. [00:55:55] I know it sounds really weird, but someone, for example, that’s like never had a successful relationship. Let’s [00:56:00] just give that as an example and they start giving you relationship advice. I’m like, hun, why? Why would I want [00:56:05] that? Because I for me, like mentors for example, are someone that have done something. I’m not saying necessarily like you [00:56:10] don’t necessarily have had to been a huge success, but for me the value lies [00:56:15] is that they’ve like walked the walk walked before they can talk the talk, you know. So I wanted to start [00:56:20] my own product, which we did do. I’d be happy to chat to you pay because I know that you’ve done that and you’ve [00:56:25] walked down that line. I’m not going to talk to like some random dentist that’s never done it. That is my personal [00:56:30] view. That is what I think is really important about mentors. When I wanted to open up Chelsea Dental [00:56:35] Clinic, I looked at people that had built practices that I aspired to have or had built brands [00:56:40] that I aspired to have. Those were the ones I looked up to, not the kind of average person that was [00:56:45] next to me. You might disagree with me because I can see there being like, I’m going to just disagree. But she [00:56:50] agrees, and I think there’s something there is something. There is something that.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:56:55] kind of agree. I kind.

[TRANSITION]: Of agree, you know, and I think.

Rhona Eskander: That that’s but that’s why you listen to a podcast like [00:57:00] Secret Leaders because you learn from those entrepreneurs, you know, like, I think there is something to have [00:57:05] been said.

Payman Langroudi: And did you see the story of Drunk Elephant? No. There’s a brilliant how I, how I [00:57:10] built this. Yeah. Where he goes and interviews Tiffany.

Adeola Gboyega: The lady that [00:57:15] kind of founded Texas girl.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant story.

[TRANSITION]: You know how I built this?

Payman Langroudi: The podcast. [00:57:20]

Adeola Gboyega: Okay.

[TRANSITION]: So check it out.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant.

Adeola Gboyega: I love stuff like that. But it’s to your point, I [00:57:25] think it’s very important to hear and speak people’s stories, because I think that’s how you learn. [00:57:30] Absolutely.

Rhona Eskander: I think you’re amazing. How is [00:57:35] your mental health now?

Adeola Gboyega: It’s good. It’s getting better. I think it’s an ongoing thing. Um, [00:57:40] I think for me, the biggest thing that I have to learn to do is not [00:57:45] feel like when things don’t work out, it’s a massive failure. So I catastrophize [00:57:50] everything, like a little thing will go wrong and I will literally just obsess over it [00:57:55] and literally just go into this hole. Um, but there’s a really good app, actually. Can I tell [00:58:00] you something?

[TRANSITION]: Yes.

Rhona Eskander: One of my favourite sayings that I keep telling myself now, rejection [00:58:05] is redirection. That’s all it is. When something doesn’t work out, another door will [00:58:10] open. And I really love that. Someone said that to me and I wrote it out again and again. Confusion is clarity. [00:58:15] Rejection is redirection. So I really love that. You know, you think that when one [00:58:20] door closes or something doesn’t work out, it just means that you’re being redirected into something else that’s going to be more in alignment [00:58:25] with you.

Adeola Gboyega: It’s so true, and I totally agree with that. Um, so yeah, I just [00:58:30] think I’m always trying to kind of look at tools that will really, really help me. Um, there’s a lady on [00:58:35] Instagram that I follow that basically shared something. It’s called untold. It’s [00:58:40] an app where basically you speak into it and it’s like a journaling app, but then it gives you [00:58:45] like different ways that you can kind of or different perspectives of how you can like, deal with it. [00:58:50] So it would be like a cognitive thing and then it would be like exercises. And that’s really helped me because sometimes in [00:58:55] the moment you might think, oh my God, woe is me, but it just takes someone to give you a different perspective to kind of change [00:59:00] your mindset at that moment in time.

Rhona Eskander: Do you know what else you can do? You can actually tell ChatGPT your problem [00:59:05] and.

[TRANSITION]: Ask it for.

Rhona Eskander: Advice.

[TRANSITION]: I love and it.

Rhona Eskander: Actually will give you like a bit of a nuanced [00:59:10] like.

[TRANSITION]: View on it all. What are your.

Adeola Gboyega: Thoughts on ChatGPT? I always love to hear what people think about [00:59:15] it.

[TRANSITION]: I think it’s.

Rhona Eskander: Great. I use it a lot because with my ADHD brain, I work so [00:59:20] quickly, full of spelling mistakes, full of like like in like I do [00:59:25] ten things at a time. So I use ChatGPT actually for like everything. So now even with [00:59:30] like an email, I’ll like do a voice note to ChatGPT and be like, write Payman and email [00:59:35] to discuss like our next like podcast discussion. This is our guest. Have a look at her background. Here’s the [00:59:40] link of the background. Can you. And then it like does it all. And I’m really good at it. And my partner [00:59:45] who works in finance, his boss is and he was like like if people know how to use AI [00:59:50] it can be incredibly successful. And also I think we can’t stop it. The only thing that I think will be interesting [00:59:55] to see is like from an educational point of view, like we all had to do our own research, right, to like create an [01:00:00] essay or whatever. And obviously people now are going to be using ChatGPT like, how are the universities and schools [01:00:05] going to stop it?

[TRANSITION]: Do you know from your.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I find it ridiculous. Like in my in my kids school they’ve banned it. [01:00:10]

[TRANSITION]: But you should just work with it.

Payman Langroudi: It’s total madness. I’m like, they should. They should make it compulsory rather [01:00:15] than banning it like.

[TRANSITION]: But then how would they.

Adeola Gboyega: Know that they’ve used.

[TRANSITION]: It like.

Payman Langroudi: They run it through a filter. But then. But [01:00:20] then kids are clever enough. Like there’s another, there’s another filter called humanise.

Adeola Gboyega: I just [01:00:25] to kind of make it sound a bit.

Payman Langroudi: I encourage my kids to use it. Yeah, but the only danger of [01:00:30] it outside of end of the world type dangers here is that if it has a political stance [01:00:35] and that’s been an issue. Right. Where, you know, Gemini was wasn’t [01:00:40] like was a bit very, very left leaning, very woke like, um, thing [01:00:45] and you know, that’s Google’s ChatGPT version. Um, and that question of because [01:00:50] now, now this will, this will literally become our government. Let’s [01:00:55] face it. You know, in the end, you know, the politicians will be using it to and if it’s [01:01:00] nuanced, if it’s racist, if it’s whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. If it’s two right wing. Two [01:01:05] left wing. Yeah. And and how are they programming that and who owns that? And is [01:01:10] is there like regulation about to come in. That’s going to mean it has to say a certain thing. [01:01:15] And I think that would be a real shame if that happens. You know, in the same way as social media has been regulated. Um, [01:01:20] until Elon came along.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: But X has gone down since Elon came along, so I’m not. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: But [01:01:25] still the regulation piece. Yeah. Like, you know they did that thing the Twitter files. Yeah. And it was like the [01:01:30] government was constantly in at Twitter telling them what to do. Yeah I don’t want the government telling [01:01:35] I what to tell me. Let the technologists like make it. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Mhm. [01:01:40]

Rhona Eskander: Right. I can tell you this conversation forever. I’m not going to let him go down at X [01:01:45] and Twitter hole.

[TRANSITION]: Okay.

Rhona Eskander: And Elon and Trump like debate. That’s going to be another time. But [01:01:50] thank you so much for joining us. I want to ask you one final question before [01:01:55] we let you go. If there was something that you could tell your younger self, knowing what you know now, [01:02:00] what would you tell her?

Adeola Gboyega: Oh, I would say that your [01:02:05] value doesn’t lie in what you feel like you can offer, like you’re valuable as you are. [01:02:10] Because I think for so long I was always and I still struggle with it to this day. I always feel like, oh, [01:02:15] what can I offer people to feel like I’m valuable, but I’m actually having to learn that I am of value as [01:02:20] I am. And that’s.

[TRANSITION]: Perfect. You are.

Rhona Eskander: You’re amazing.

[TRANSITION]: Thank you.

Payman Langroudi: Thank you so much for this [01:02:25] as well. Go on. Your favourite day.

Adeola Gboyega: My favourite.

[TRANSITION]: Day. Describe [01:02:30] your favourite day.

Payman Langroudi: No no no. Like, what was.

[TRANSITION]: Your favourite day? Oh, what was my favourite day? What comes to.

Payman Langroudi: Mind? [01:02:35] What happened that day?

Adeola Gboyega: Wow.

Payman Langroudi: Best day of your life. And you’re [01:02:40] not allowed to say weddings, kids. None of that.

Adeola Gboyega: I have none of those.

[TRANSITION]: Not any of them yet.

Adeola Gboyega: So [01:02:45] I.

Rhona Eskander: Sitting on Dental.

[TRANSITION]: Leaders.

Rhona Eskander: No joking.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:02:50] in your 20s, man.

[TRANSITION]: Do you know.

Rhona Eskander: What are you living.

[TRANSITION]: In? No.

Payman Langroudi: Your favourite day.

[TRANSITION]: Was my 20s. [01:02:55]

Rhona Eskander: For sure. My 20s were terrible.

[TRANSITION]: Really?

Rhona Eskander: I was so insecure. And also. I [01:03:00] told.

[TRANSITION]: You this.

Payman Langroudi: What was your favourite day?

[TRANSITION]: Have a think.

Adeola Gboyega: I’m gonna say that I feel like I’m yet to experience it. And I’m [01:03:05] actually really excited.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: Because I don’t feel like I’ve had like a specific day that’s like, [01:03:10] oh my God, that stands out in my mind that I’m like, oh my gosh, that’s been the best day of my life. I feel like the [01:03:15] beauty that I feel like I’m living in the moment is that I’m yet to experience that. And that’s exciting.

Payman Langroudi: Today. [01:03:20]

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Is that what you are?

Adeola Gboyega: Is that what you wanted.

[TRANSITION]: Me to say?

Adeola Gboyega: Today is the best day.

[TRANSITION]: Listen, what’s [01:03:25] your favourite day? Your favourite day?

Rhona Eskander: My life coach said to me that one of the most [01:03:30] important things is to find the extraordinary in the ordinary. And I know it sounds so cheesy, but [01:03:35] sometimes I really appreciate mundane things now. And it would be. And I don’t know if that’s [01:03:40] come with age. Like I’m like, oh my God, I’m actually a cougar now. I mean, I have to have kids first. But I was like, whatever. But [01:03:45] like the mundane, like I look at the trees or I’ll literally look at, you [01:03:50] know, something in nature. And I’m like, this is actually really extraordinary. I was [01:03:55] even watching, um, I was really ill last week, so I was watching about a puffer fish. [01:04:00] There was this incredible documentary about, like, the life of a puffer fish and watching how [01:04:05] nature like communicates with each other. I was like, this is unbelievable. So [01:04:10] having said that, some of my most beautiful moments have been in nature. I’m a little bit of a hippie, [01:04:15] so like me and my partner go scuba diving. We went to go watch the gorillas in Rwanda. [01:04:20] I went to go release the baby turtles into the sea in Guatemala.

Rhona Eskander: That was one of the most beautiful moments of my life, releasing [01:04:25] those baby turtles. And for me, those are some of the most beautiful moments. And, you know, people are like, what [01:04:30] about the day that you got married? And like, I have a problem with that, like you said, because I feel like that’s actually such a [01:04:35] curated day. The curation of that all is, is that although it’s a day of celebration, of love, so [01:04:40] much money and planning goes into it that it’s almost contradictory to be the most amazing day of your life, [01:04:45] because you’re doing it so that everyone looks at you. Do you know what I mean? So for me, that didn’t feel like [01:04:50] the natural, and I feel that maybe I might even have like a ten year anniversary [01:04:55] or something and do it like on a beach would feel more aligned, like in nature, not necessarily with anyone around, if that makes [01:05:00] sense. So for me, some of those moments are it will be in nature, I’d say, [01:05:05] where you really feel alive. You really.

[TRANSITION]: Feel like you’re one.

Payman Langroudi: Of our other guests said, like you could pick 6 or 7 things, [01:05:10] and if those 6 or 7 things happen in a day, then you’ve had a great day. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: That’s [01:05:15] that’s that’s a really good way of doing an ice bath.

Rhona Eskander: Going for a.

[TRANSITION]: Long walk.

Rhona Eskander: Like experiencing animals. [01:05:20]

[TRANSITION]: You know what I mean?

Adeola Gboyega: I love that and I think also as well, I had that same conversation with my therapist at the time [01:05:25] because I think especially and I think you might agree with this, when you’re in the kind of mindset [01:05:30] that we have where you’re always chasing your next high of like, you know, what’s happening next, what’s happening next, [01:05:35] when those things don’t happen, you then take it very, very personally. So then you’re always on this constant sort of journey [01:05:40] of what’s going to happen next to the point that you don’t even actually, like, think about what you’ve achieved. Like just [01:05:45] last week, because you’re thinking, oh my gosh, what’s happening?

[TRANSITION]: How far you’ve come that I’m [01:05:50] the worst, that I’m going to be completely.

Rhona Eskander: Honest with you. Like celebrating the like official launch of [01:05:55] Chelsea Dental Clinic, even though we like really opened up in like June.

[TRANSITION]: July last night. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: I [01:06:00] was like, oh my God. Like I’ve been so hard on myself. I never took a moment to appreciate [01:06:05] what I built in that clinic. And Joseph and Charlie came. They were the owners that I [01:06:10] bought the clinic from.

[TRANSITION]: Joseph, and.

Rhona Eskander: They were like, what the hell have you done to this place? They couldn’t recognise it. And I was [01:06:15] like, this was literally a two surgery practice, you know, so basic. What is it [01:06:20] now? And it’s five surgeries. And like I came from the beginning, like, you know, when it was a [01:06:25] basic and I was like, I never took stock. I never took stock of what it was like. [01:06:30] Next. Hi. Next. Hi. So when the refurb was done, I was like, cool. Next.

Adeola Gboyega: Yeah. What’s next?

Rhona Eskander: Yesterday I was like, oh my God, I have [01:06:35] so many people in this room that love me, that care about me and have like, really, like shown me that they’re [01:06:40] proud of me. You know, I even had like, monarch tell me, you know, like big dentists that I’ve [01:06:45] known for years. And I was like, do you know what? I’ve actually achieved something that I can be proud of.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Adeola Gboyega: So and [01:06:50] that’s amazing.

[TRANSITION]: And on that note.

Rhona Eskander: Thank you so much for being part of that journey.

[TRANSITION]: Thank you so much. [01:06:55] Thank you for having me.