[VOICE]: This [00:00:05] is mind movers [00:00:10] moving the conversation forward on mental health [00:00:15] and optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts Rhona [00:00:20] Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Rhona Eskander: Hi [00:00:25] everyone, welcome to Mind Movers. So as always, I bring the most inspirational [00:00:30] and aspirational guests with me. Georgia meachum is an incredible advocate [00:00:35] for mental health and inclusion. As a deaf individual, she has broken barriers and inspired [00:00:40] many by sharing her unique journey and insights. George’s work focuses [00:00:45] on empowering others to embrace their mental health challenges and promoting inclusivity in every [00:00:50] aspect of life. She’s also an absolute babe. She’s a strong believer that our differences [00:00:55] make us stronger, and she’s here today to share her powerful story and expert advice. [00:01:00] Welcome, Georgia.

Georgia Meacham: Thank you for having me. First and foremost, welcome.

Rhona Eskander: And for those [00:01:05] of you watching YouTube, don’t forget to like and subscribe because I’m really trying to grow it for those who want long form. And [00:01:10] you can see how amazing Georgia’s denim jacket is and how incredible, how incredible that she looks. [00:01:15] So, Georgia, can you share a bit about your journey as a deaf individual and how that’s [00:01:20] shaped your perspective on mental health? I want to get right into it.

Georgia Meacham: Wow. I mean, it’s [00:01:25] such a big question because, um, yeah, [00:01:30] where to begin? I think I’m going to start with the fact that.

Rhona Eskander: You were born deaf.

Georgia Meacham: Right? I was [00:01:35] born deaf, and I had my first hearing aids fitted when I was 16 months old. Sorry, 17 months [00:01:40] after failing to hearing tests. Um, this kind [00:01:45] of became apparent to my mum when she was saying things, and I was only repeating part [00:01:50] of words back, and so she was like, there’s something not quite right. [00:01:55]

Rhona Eskander: Let’s just as a baby, were you crying and things like that, you know?

Georgia Meacham: Yeah, it was just [00:02:00] my mom would be, you know, saying my name, and I just wouldn’t be responding. [00:02:05] So she was there was just. And she’d. I’m the second child. So she was obviously [00:02:10] comparing to my brother, who I’m the first deaf person in the family. So there was [00:02:15] she knew that something was different. Um, but yeah, back to the mental health side [00:02:20] of things. I think I for so long was ashamed and embarrassed [00:02:25] by the devices that literally helped me get by in everyday [00:02:30] life. I wouldn’t be here today without them. And and I think [00:02:35] the point that I started to really embrace them and [00:02:40] realised that actually this is a beautiful part of who I am, and I wouldn’t [00:02:45] be who I am without that part of me. Um, it has helped my [00:02:50] mental health hugely, and I think I’ve [00:02:55] never been happier Because I can now just show up [00:03:00] whether it’s to work things, to social things as myself and not [00:03:05] have to worry about not hearing because people don’t know or not getting the right [00:03:10] help. And yeah, now I speak up for myself and I.

Rhona Eskander: So when the [00:03:15] hearing aid was fitted, um, how did it affect your learning [00:03:20] journey? So did you go to how was school? Did you get bullied? Like talk a little bit through [00:03:25] that.

Georgia Meacham: So there’s always the situation that when you find out your child is deaf, obviously it [00:03:30] was a huge thing for my parents. They were trying to navigate a whole new journey [00:03:35] as well. Um, and, you know, your child can try to learn how to talk, or [00:03:40] they can learn how to sign, or they can try and do both, and [00:03:45] they can go to a deaf school. Um, I believe in the UK there’s 22 deaf schools, or [00:03:50] they can try and go to a mainstream school. And you know, [00:03:55] my parents, obviously wanting the best opportunities for me, thought that going [00:04:00] to a mainstream school and seeing if I could learn how to talk would be the best option. [00:04:05] Um, and yeah, I think it was the best option [00:04:10] because I was pushed, um, [00:04:15] and I had to overcome so many challenges by being [00:04:20] in environments where I’m not people like me aren’t [00:04:25] necessarily thought of, um, and accessibility needs aren’t always [00:04:30] matched. So I’ve always learned how to be adaptable and I’ve. Yeah. [00:04:35]

Rhona Eskander: And did you so did you. Because obviously when I speak to you now, like [00:04:40] your speech is perfect, is that unique to your journey or is that something that, [00:04:45] um, is accessible to people that are born deaf?

Georgia Meacham: It’s actually really interesting because [00:04:50] I do have a bit of a lisp because of my hearing. Um, and [00:04:55] I have been made of made fun of that before, and a lot of people haven’t realised [00:05:00] that the way my speech is, how it is, because I’m deaf. But yeah, I do speak well, I [00:05:05] don’t have a very strong deaf accent, but that’s because I’ve had to work hard, and I think people forget [00:05:10] that I’ve had to work a bit harder than everyone else. I had speech therapy at [00:05:15] lunchtimes from the age of three.

Rhona Eskander: Um.

Georgia Meacham: And, [00:05:20] you know, instead of going out to play with other children, I was with my speech therapist [00:05:25] for half an hour every day at school. So there’s a lot of behind the [00:05:30] scenes that I don’t think people realise that deaf children have to go through to in [00:05:35] order to cope in a mainstream society. Um, so yeah, my speech [00:05:40] is good because I’ve, I’ve worked I’ve worked hard, basically. Um, and [00:05:45] also being in the entertainment industry, I’ve had to work on it even harder. [00:05:50] But something really interesting whenever I meet Voice coaches or dialect [00:05:55] coaches. They can tell straight away from the way I talk.

Payman Langroudi: Georgia, [00:06:00] you know you haven’t got kids, have you?

Georgia Meacham: No I don’t.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: So not [00:06:05] yet.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. With kids, I always thought that the one thing you can [00:06:10] do for your child is make them confident.

Georgia Meacham: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: And with [00:06:15] your disability? Yes. Is that how you refer to the disability? Yeah. [00:06:20] With your disability. Becoming an actress or [00:06:25] an influencer would be, like, one of the most difficult things to do. And yet you had the [00:06:30] confidence to want to be that person. Do you put that down to your upbringing, or [00:06:35] was there some event in childhood that sort of made you think, I’m [00:06:40] going to dominate? I’m going to watch too many. I mean, you could have been an accountant [00:06:45] or a.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Um. Oh, gosh, there’s there’s so much [00:06:50] to that question because I say it and say it again. My parents and my [00:06:55] family. I have the most incredible support system and I think that’s vital if [00:07:00] you are, if you have some sort of difference. Um, because these are the people [00:07:05] that will rally you and be behind you. Um.

Payman Langroudi: So were they overcompensating [00:07:10] and really being behind you more than.

Georgia Meacham: No, I don’t think they were, because [00:07:15] I, I had a fear that I never wanted to be treated [00:07:20] differently. So that’s why I’ve always worked hard. I’ve always pushed myself. I’ve [00:07:25] never wanted that extra help. Um, and [00:07:30] the reason that I fell into acting was because [00:07:35] I could. Forget about. I [00:07:40] could be on a stage and my difference wasn’t a thing. Does [00:07:45] that make sense? And also the the beautiful part of acting is that you can tell [00:07:50] other people’s stories for people that can’t. And I think again, [00:07:55] when when you have some sort of difference, you [00:08:00] rely on those platforms, whether it’s TV, film, we learn so [00:08:05] much, don’t we? We learn about all different disabilities, diversity [00:08:10] through film and TV. And I think that’s something that made me really connect to the entertainment [00:08:15] industry.

Rhona Eskander: Was there any discrimination though? I mean, did people say like, oh no, [00:08:20] we don’t think that she’ll be okay for the role because she’s deaf? You know, did you experience anything [00:08:25] like that?

Georgia Meacham: Well, because I hid it for so long. That’s where the.

Rhona Eskander: And [00:08:30] how did you hide it?

Georgia Meacham: Um, I was taking them out. If I had to wear my hair [00:08:35] up and I was relying on lip reading.

Rhona Eskander: Wow.

Georgia Meacham: Which is why I was [00:08:40] absolutely exhausted every single day. Um, yeah, it [00:08:45] was tiring. I was, like, carrying away every day because I was [00:08:50] trying to hide. If I had say, if I had them in and I had my [00:08:55] hair down, I was so worried that someone would notice them. So I was [00:09:00] just like working three jobs at once, hiding them, trying [00:09:05] to lip read, trying to keep this secret. It was. Yeah, it was exhausting. Even [00:09:10] my agents who were, you know, sending me towards the jobs, they didn’t have a clue. Wow. Um, [00:09:15] yeah. And do you know what? I never like to look back, because obviously [00:09:20] my journey, I think, has made me super strong. And. [00:09:25] Yeah, I’ve lost my track [00:09:30] of thought because.

Payman Langroudi: It’s an interesting thing that it’s something that you can hide and. [00:09:35]

Georgia Meacham: It’s almost an invisible disability.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: And that’s why I think it’s so hard for people [00:09:40] that do have invisible disabilities, because you have to tell people about it. [00:09:45] You know, it’s not obvious if you’re.

Rhona Eskander: Wearing the same as mental health. Right. Exactly which is. Hence [00:09:50] why. And I think that that’s still so massively stigmatised. And obviously I’m not one of these people, [00:09:55] but I would also assume that because people don’t understand what it’s like [00:10:00] to be deaf, where they sometimes can see a physical disability, it’s almost like they have more empathy [00:10:05] for things that they can see. And, you know, it just doesn’t get any better. [00:10:10] I watched I don’t know if you’ve seen it, I really recommend it. The Avicii documentary [00:10:15] yesterday. So you guys remember it.

Georgia Meacham: You know what? I really want to watch it. But the [00:10:20] thought of it already upsets me because.

Rhona Eskander: It’s so sad because he was your classic [00:10:25] creative talent that literally loved making music. He [00:10:30] wasn’t driven by fame, he wasn’t driven by money. He just loved making [00:10:35] music. And he was discovered when he was like 18 or 19. That’s when levels came out. Like, you remember that [00:10:40] song. And he grew to this, like astronomical level of fame. And again, [00:10:45] like, it might be a little bit cognisant with Amy Winehouse in a way where they [00:10:50] are such creative people. Someone sees their talent and the person that sees [00:10:55] their talent is the driving force between that kind of commercial capitalist [00:11:00] thing that pushes them and pushes them and pushes them, and when their mental health deteriorates, [00:11:05] in hindsight, they’re like, oh, we just didn’t know. And you [00:11:10] know, and we didn’t know it was that bad. And it’s like, but we keep repeating the same [00:11:15] mistakes. And I think it’s the same with like disabilities. You know, we can all say in hindsight, should have [00:11:20] done that. Shouldn’t have done that. Yeah. We’re all changing. I don’t really believe many people do actually [00:11:25] change because there’s another Avicii and there’s another Amy Winehouse and there’s another celebrity. [00:11:30]

Georgia Meacham: I think a huge part of a huge part of it with these specific [00:11:35] people as well, is that they don’t know how to voice their struggles. They don’t know how [00:11:40] to communicate to their loved ones. This is how I feel sometimes. You don’t know how to communicate [00:11:45] what you’re feeling. Um, so I think that’s why therapy. I’ll go on [00:11:50] about therapy forever, because it’s just great in, just in in order of practising these [00:11:55] types of conversations, role play, you know, pretending your therapist is your close friend and saying, [00:12:00] okay, this is what I’m feeling at the moment. How can you help me? And also [00:12:05] just asking for help. It’s still stigmatised.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes. The vocabulary [00:12:10] of therapy. Yes, I’ve learned so many words from you, just from you, but you just bring them there [00:12:15] in your sort of vernacular.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah, there we go.

Payman Langroudi: And other people.

Georgia Meacham: Don’t have that.

Payman Langroudi: People haven’t got the vocab. [00:12:20]

Rhona Eskander: But that’s the thing. Like talking about being picky like life partner thing. Like for me, it was somebody that had emotional [00:12:25] awareness and emotional intelligence. And that’s very lacking in the healthcare profession because [00:12:30] scientists and very logical people don’t necessarily have incredible. And that’s why [00:12:35] Payman Payman, you do have great empathy as well, but it’s rare, like [00:12:40] empathy is quite rare in our in our in our profession.

Payman Langroudi: I wouldn’t go that far. I wouldn’t [00:12:45] go that far.

Rhona Eskander: Well, rare. It’s not. You don’t think it’s rare? No. I think it’s incredibly rare. Not, I think. Have you [00:12:50] met lots of doctors that have empathy, would you say? No.

Georgia Meacham: Thank you. My granddad was a scientist. [00:12:55] And my mum, who is like me, she’s so sensitive, [00:13:00] so empathetic. We talked to each other about everything. She grew up with her dad. [00:13:05] Who’s this medical scientist? And just the conversations. [00:13:10] They were never on a deep level, and she really struggled with that.

Payman Langroudi: But a scientist is different [00:13:15] to a healthcare worker.

Rhona Eskander: No, I know. I think it’s all very similar. Payman. You’re wrong. Okay. For [00:13:20] example, I went on Shivani’s podcast. Um, before Christmas, I had something [00:13:25] really awful happened to me medically, um, about a few days [00:13:30] before. And Shivani said to me, do you still want to come on the podcast? And I was like, you know what? It’s fine. I’ll just get through it. Probably [00:13:35] didn’t look my best on the podcast, lost a substantial amount of weight because of what I was going through. [00:13:40] Anyways, I was on the podcast clip on TikTok and Talk and someone doctor [00:13:45] something or other. I’m not going to expose them, goes, oh my God, what the hell’s happened to Doctor Rona? [00:13:50] So I commented back, being like, what do you mean? And they didn’t reply. So then I wrote them a message saying, what do [00:13:55] you mean? And I was like, I don’t mean to be rude, but you’ve lost all of your buccal fat. [00:14:00] You’ve got temporal hollowing. Basically tore my face apart, right? And I was like, I was actually [00:14:05] going through something, man, I don’t know, to be honest, cuz it was one of those profiles that didn’t have any pictures. [00:14:10] And then I was like, do you know what? I was actually going through something pretty horrific. I think it’s really important [00:14:15] that we don’t comment on the way people look.

Georgia Meacham: And don’t judge.

Rhona Eskander: Exactly whether they lost weight, put on [00:14:20] weight, whether their face looks different, like it’s not your place, and they’ll be like, oh, now I feel really bad. [00:14:25] Come on Payman, that is such a degree of lack of empathy. The trolls on Facebook, [00:14:30] the forums that that tear down other dentists. I’ve had dentists say to me that they [00:14:35] won’t go on Facebook because of the way that other dentists talk about each other. That is such a basic lack of human [00:14:40] empathy and respect, and that’s what I think. So I’m not having this debate with you.

Payman Langroudi: Of course that [00:14:45] exists. But I’m saying to say that people are people in healthcare. It’s rare that they have empathy. There’s [00:14:50] thousands of of dentists out there.

Rhona Eskander: I’m not saying everyone, but it’s.

Payman Langroudi: Empathy with all their patients. [00:14:55]

Rhona Eskander: They’re not.

Payman Langroudi: Creative. It’s one of the one of the skills of being a good dentist. Is that right? [00:15:00]

Rhona Eskander: So because they don’t pick hence why so many dentists get so many complaints and [00:15:05] so many dentists struggle with selling treatment plans and so many they struggle with the soft [00:15:10] skills. You know that. You know that literally Prav has a course on marketing and how to be empathetic. [00:15:15] You know, I think and people focus so much on I [00:15:20] think, again, we’ve talked about this like the exterior. So for example, in dentistry, they will [00:15:25] focus on being so amazing academically, but not on the patient in front of them.

Georgia Meacham: You know, [00:15:30] empathy is part of personal skills isn’t it. Socialising. And that’s a huge part [00:15:35] of.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. And I don’t want to go off on a tangent because we’re talking about, you know, you see it gets [00:15:40] heated between us. If it gets heated, I’m feeling it. Um, but now what I [00:15:45] see, which is so incredible, is that you’re wearing your hearing aid with pride and with [00:15:50] confidence. Massive clap for that. So what was the turning point for you? Where [00:15:55] you were because you were hiding it? So what was the turning point?

Georgia Meacham: I mean, I [00:16:00] think being misunderstood, I think [00:16:05] that it got to a point where I was so fed up of being misunderstood.

Rhona Eskander: Were you?

Georgia Meacham: Oh, [00:16:10] this was only like a year and a half ago.

Rhona Eskander: Wow.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah, yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So you were hiding it for that long? [00:16:15]

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. So I hid it from. Because at school, I had to wear my hair up so I couldn’t hide [00:16:20] it. So that was. And just people accepted me. And then when I went to university [00:16:25] and I got the chance to wear my hair down, I was like, oh, I can [00:16:30] redefine myself. I don’t have to be that odd girl at school anymore. So [00:16:35] at university, I started wearing my hair down. And then the more I got to know people, [00:16:40] I was like, oh my gosh, I can’t just suddenly show them my hearing aids because they’ll be shocked [00:16:45] because obviously they’ve known me for so long. So it just became such [00:16:50] a big thing in my head.

Payman Langroudi: Even your closest friends.

Georgia Meacham: A few of my closest friends.

Rhona Eskander: How are you handling [00:16:55] dating?

Georgia Meacham: It was just so big in my head.

Rhona Eskander: And what about dating guys?

Georgia Meacham: Dating? I dated a guy for. [00:17:00] This. Was like my first relationship at university for four months. And [00:17:05] I remember even, like, if he went to hug me, I was worried that [00:17:10] his ear would touch my ear and he would be like, oh, what’s that?

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Or sometimes they [00:17:15] make a whistling noise if you go too close to them. So I lived on edge [00:17:20] in this relationship, and even in bed, just as the lights went off, I would quickly take them off [00:17:25] and hide them under my pillow and just hope that he wouldn’t talk to me as we [00:17:30] were going to sleep, otherwise I wouldn’t hear. So it was a lot. And I just, you [00:17:35] know, everything that I do from now on is because I never want anyone to feel like that. [00:17:40] You know, it’s. Life is hard enough already as it is without having [00:17:45] to do these extra things, and not just not being able to show up as just you.

Rhona Eskander: So [00:17:50] what was the turning point like? Did something significant happen where you were like, fuck this, I’m not going to do this.

Georgia Meacham: I’m seeing a bit more representation [00:17:55] on TV and film.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, because there.

Payman Langroudi: Was that other deaf people.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, there [00:18:00] was a girl also.

Georgia Meacham: Sorry, a huge thing to point out. Not just deaf people or seeing [00:18:05] hearing aids. It’s young people. Mhm. Because you [00:18:10] see you see loads of grandparents.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. [00:18:15] Older people with hearing aids but you don’t necessarily see young [00:18:20] people. Mhm. And I didn’t have, I didn’t know one other person until like [00:18:25] two years ago that um was under the age of 30 and had hearing aids.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:18:30] now do you now looking into it, is that is the evidence that there are lots of people hiding? [00:18:35] Must be.

Georgia Meacham: Do you know what the. I’m so thankful. [00:18:40] Like when I think about it, it makes me shiver. I don’t know why I’m getting emotional. Probably I’m on my [00:18:45] period. Yeah. But, um, just like the.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, I’m getting emotional. [00:18:50] I’m getting emotional. It’s okay. It’s not. Sorry. I knew I’d get like this.

Georgia Meacham: No, [00:18:55] it’s just because I had such a lovely message. Um, I think it was only the other week, and [00:19:00] it just made me realise. Oh, wow. This is why I’m doing it again, a girl.

Rhona Eskander: Oh. [00:19:05]

[TRANSITION]: Bless you. Sorry.

[TRANSITION]: That’s alright.

[TRANSITION]: I should have [00:19:10] warned you. That’s deeply emotional.

Georgia Meacham: Um. No. I had a younger girl message me. And do you know [00:19:15] what? I could read out the message.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah. Go for.

Rhona Eskander: It. Go for.

[TRANSITION]: It. You know.

Georgia Meacham: People actually take the time to [00:19:20] message and share their story. And how brave is, [00:19:25] is that this is strangers that are messaging me, and I just I think everyone’s [00:19:30] so brave. And I think that’s what really gets me because it’s so hard for, for some [00:19:35] people just to even write it. Writing. The fact that I’m [00:19:40] giving some people this little bit of confidence to share it, even if it’s just with me.

Payman Langroudi: So [00:19:45] now you think sharing, being vulnerable, sharing something about yourself that [00:19:50] you might think is a weakness?

Rhona Eskander: No, I get.

Payman Langroudi: Gets makes that [00:19:55] thing more acceptable to you? Is that.

Rhona Eskander: No. It’s just like I think, as George has said, like [00:20:00] shared experiences are really powerful. When I, when I did my 2024, um, [00:20:05] look back and I said, like, basically it’s been a bit it was a really tough year [00:20:10] for me. Like the amount of people.

Georgia Meacham: That was beautiful, by the way.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: Thank you. But I feel [00:20:15] like I’m always highlighting your thing. I’m like, yes, yes. I’m like, oh, she’s gonna think I’m crazy.

Rhona Eskander: I had a lot of people [00:20:20] message me saying, like, I just want you to know, like, it’s so refreshing because everybody [00:20:25] writes their highlight reel and how amazing their life is. And you actually were really honest and real and, like, [00:20:30] on the outside, like, you wouldn’t even think that you’re going through that stuff. So I just want to thank [00:20:35] you.

Georgia Meacham: Especially because you had such a great year as well that people probably [00:20:40] only see you and see, oh yeah, she’s the founder of the new dentist clinic, so they probably [00:20:45] don’t even think that you would even possibly go through these types of [00:20:50] things.

Rhona Eskander: I think it’s that’s the thing like with the Vichy as well. Like people were like, he’s the richest, most famous DJ [00:20:55] of his time. Why do you have depression? Why do you have anxiety? Do [00:21:00] you know what I mean? It’s just classic.

Payman Langroudi: But do you think there’s a an element of oversharing, [00:21:05] like, is that a thing you worry about?

Georgia Meacham: I think [00:21:10] oversharing is I think it’s not oversharing. [00:21:15] It’s positive toxic.

Payman Langroudi: Toxicity.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. [00:21:20] It’s being too positive.

Rhona Eskander: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Positive. Um. Toxic positivity. [00:21:25]

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. Toxic positivity.

Rhona Eskander: I can’t bear toxic positivity and explain it. Explain it.

Georgia Meacham: So I think some people that overshare. [00:21:30]

Rhona Eskander: So.

Georgia Meacham: Tend to.

Rhona Eskander: So toxic positivity is where people [00:21:35] are like, I don’t want to talk about bad things, and I don’t want to see bad images, and I don’t want to put any.

Georgia Meacham: Necessarily [00:21:40] that. But just being like, so.

Rhona Eskander: Motivated, just be like driven. It’s all in your [00:21:45] head. You’ve got to think positive. You’ve got to be abundant. And to be honest with you, I’m going to be completely [00:21:50] honest. I actually cut out quite a lot of people like that last year. And when I say cut out, it’s not the cut [00:21:55] out where I was like, you’re out of my life. I was like, do you know what?

Payman Langroudi: You just want to see less of it.

Rhona Eskander: I want to see less of them as well, [00:22:00] because what I felt that is that that my feelings weren’t being validated. And what I actually found was [00:22:05] they were unable to hold space for me. So what I mean by that is, is that my [00:22:10] discomfort made them too uncomfortable. So it was easier for them to be like babes. Just write down [00:22:15] affirmations. Life is great. Don’t put that down. And I’m like, I’m grieving something. I have [00:22:20] literally lost something. That’s what happened to me last year. And you’re telling me that I can’t be [00:22:25] upset and it’s all in my mind. And I manifested this like, no, please, toxic positivity [00:22:30] doesn’t work for me. It just doesn’t.

Payman Langroudi: But then you know how people say cut out negative people around you [00:22:35] because they bring you down. Do you subscribe to that idea?

Rhona Eskander: Absolutely as well. I think that’s [00:22:40] I think I think there’s like there is a balance. What I like to see is, is that the human, the human. [00:22:45]

Georgia Meacham: Imperfect.

Rhona Eskander: Human experience is flawed. It is wonderfully beautiful. And [00:22:50] it is intrinsically complicated as well. There are highs and there are lows, [00:22:55] and life is not a constant. And what I like to do is, is I like to feel every emotion. [00:23:00] I like to feel happy. I like to feel sad. I like to cry. And I try to [00:23:05] celebrate. So I try now not to suppress anything. So people that think that it’s okay and [00:23:10] normal. Never to be sad or never to experience discomfort. You’re not [00:23:15] having the authentic human life experience. That’s how I feel.

Georgia Meacham: I think as well you can deal with more [00:23:20] things if you are able to cope with feeling or different emotions, because [00:23:25] then if you lose someone.

Rhona Eskander: You can process.

Georgia Meacham: It. You know how to get it out, you [00:23:30] know how to deal with it. Whereas people that don’t show all these different emotions. Yeah, they’ll [00:23:35] struggle even more.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, yeah. Have you found the message?

Georgia Meacham: I found the message. Sorry it took me ages. [00:23:40] Um. Okay, so [00:23:45] this is by a younger girl saying hello. I just wanted to make. I just [00:23:50] wanted to let you know what a difference you’re making by opening up and sharing. You’re showing that it is [00:23:55] possible for young to be young, confident and strong whilst wearing visible hearing [00:24:00] aids, and it has really helped me to accept mine. I refused to wear them for a [00:24:05] long time and when I did, I kept my hair styled in a way where you couldn’t see them. See [00:24:10] them? I was told I needed a full in ear mould for one of my ears, and I genuinely [00:24:15] cried for months because I knew it would be much harder to hide. Since following [00:24:20] you, I have not only accepted it, but worn my hair back and spoken openly about my hearing [00:24:25] struggles, which practically has helped me so much. My friends now ask [00:24:30] me which would be would be best for me to sit on which side. Or if we’re in a noisy cafe [00:24:35] or restaurant, if they can. If I can hear them, I know I’ll be one in millions [00:24:40] of messages that you’ll receive each day. But just in case you do see it, I wanted you to [00:24:45] know the difference you’re making to everyday people and for life. For people like me. [00:24:50]

[TRANSITION]: I love that it’s beautiful.

Georgia Meacham: I stumbled over a few words, but.

Rhona Eskander: So when [00:24:55] you I mean obviously you’re having a huge impact on people around you now, but the representation was [00:25:00] your real turning point. And then you were like, I’m now going to wear this with pride. Yes. How did [00:25:05] it change the quality of your life?

Georgia Meacham: Hugely. As I said, especially my mental health, because [00:25:10] I’m just able to show up for things and actually enjoy my jobs [00:25:15] rather than worrying about all these other things. And and also [00:25:20] asking for the help is okay to ask for help. I was so ashamed [00:25:25] of if someone treated me differently or if, Um, [00:25:30] or if I had to actually ask someone to repeat something more than twice. [00:25:35] But now I’m like, it doesn’t matter.

Rhona Eskander: But even now, today, you were like, guys, can you come closer to [00:25:40] me?

Georgia Meacham: There we go. I wouldn’t have dared.

[TRANSITION]: Done that last year. Struggle. Like, you know, I. [00:25:45]

Georgia Meacham: Would have just been. And also, I think as well, I was just so used to struggling that I didn’t know [00:25:50] any other way. And then I found out I can. [00:25:55] There is this other way of life. And also, all the things I’ve achieved [00:26:00] have been without the full help that I’ve needed. Imagine all [00:26:05] the things I can do now with the right help. And I think that really [00:26:10] spurs me on as well.

Payman Langroudi: I think Rhona talks about sometimes for women, the 30s [00:26:15] are when they really sort of find themselves.

Georgia Meacham: And yeah, I think as well I just [00:26:20] turned 32. So when I kind of started to speak about it, [00:26:25] I was 31. So yeah, I think, I think that probably was a turning point. Coin. I was a bit more comfortable [00:26:30] in myself and feeling a bit more stronger. So then I felt that that was [00:26:35] the the right time.

Rhona Eskander: Well, I always say, and I think. Did you see the Demi Moore speech? [00:26:40] Okay, so I have to read it to you. Okay. The Demi Moore speech, because I think it’s so beautiful [00:26:45] and so amazing.

Georgia Meacham: Do you know what it is? It’s just so relatable.

Rhona Eskander: It’s just. Okay. [00:26:50] So obviously normal. There were so many things about this that I thought were incredible. [00:26:55] And she says, um, this [00:27:00] is something that I saw that I thought was so good, so beautiful. Demi Moore’s [00:27:05] speech about being told that she was just a popcorn actor is another symptom of Hollywood’s [00:27:10] women expire over 35 gaslighting. By relegating [00:27:15] beautiful women to roles that are solely about sex appeal. But there is nothing [00:27:20] sexier or more provocative than a woman realising her worth taking the reins and [00:27:25] turning the scars of her lived experience into a into a lightning bolt of sheer, unstoppable [00:27:30] radiance. Women over 40. Rise up. And I just really, really, really related [00:27:35] to that because I told you this before. Like, I do feel like the worth of women is [00:27:40] put so much on their youth and their fertility, and it’s like this sex appeal, but [00:27:45] there is nothing sexier than a confident woman that knows her worth. Like the amount [00:27:50] of women that I see, I don’t know, like he’s looking at that. I really do, but then.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:27:55] fully understand.

Rhona Eskander: You’re.

Payman Langroudi: Projecting. I brought it up [00:28:00] in the first instance. Yeah. So I think of that as the Princess Di thing.

Rhona Eskander: Oh, yes. [00:28:05]

Payman Langroudi: You said Princess Di when she died was much more attractive than the 19 year old, you know, [00:28:10] on the on the side with Charles when she got married. Right. Because of the confidence. [00:28:15] Yeah. I fully, fully get that.

Georgia Meacham: And also Prince Di, she was kind and she was [00:28:20] warm and.

Payman Langroudi: She was herself.

Georgia Meacham: She did show vulnerability. Yeah. And so it [00:28:25] made her more relatable. Yeah. And therefore she was more of [00:28:30] an inspiration because people felt connected to her 100%.

Payman Langroudi: The face you saw was [00:28:35] it was something around, you know, pretty privilege. Yeah. Insomuch as you’re, [00:28:40] you’re you’re sort of strong as a as a pretty girl, you’re [00:28:45] you get a lot of benefit from that sexual power. You get a lot of benefit from that from age [00:28:50] 19 to 39 or whatever, whatever number you want to put on it. Loads [00:28:55] of benefit. So yeah, as as you lose that benefit, it hurts, but [00:29:00] you’re getting loads of benefits. Some 19 year old girl can can really move things around because of how [00:29:05] pretty she is. She doesn’t have 19 year old guy can’t at all.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, but I think it’s different, right. [00:29:10]

Payman Langroudi: Because I important to bear that in mind.

Rhona Eskander: No, because I think the fact is, is that that 19 year old woman that [00:29:15] looks the way she does, she doesn’t actually know what to do with that. And that’s the thing that you’re forgetting. [00:29:20] And she’s easily open. She’s open to manipulation. She’s open [00:29:25] to the to the Harvey Weinsteins and the Jeffrey Epstein’s of the world because she doesn’t know what to [00:29:30] do with that. Whereas I’m saying that if you, which I truly believe, like, women, still look amazing and [00:29:35] beautiful on that physical aspect in their 30s, they have a different kind of confidence because they are beautiful and they know what [00:29:40] to do with it, and they recognise that their worth isn’t just about the physical. And I think that [00:29:45] the danger comes for women that just put the importance when I and I know that you model [00:29:50] as well. Um, so I’d love to hear your thoughts. But when I was in my, when I was a teenager and up until [00:29:55] Leeds, I used to get scouted for modelling. And my mom.

Georgia Meacham: Of course you did.

Rhona Eskander: And my mom, well, a lot of doctors wouldn’t [00:30:00] agree. Lost my buccal fat and temporal whatever. Anyway, um, but my mum used [00:30:05] to be a model. She. I told you, she’s six foot one, green eyes, etc., and my mom was like, I really don’t want you to do it because I do [00:30:10] want you to focus on dentistry. And I think that for me, a really [00:30:15] important lesson was learned. Number one, I had awareness of how insecure I [00:30:20] was at the time, and I couldn’t handle criticism. I criticism. I couldn’t handle [00:30:25] the need to lose weight. But the other thing for me was like, I don’t want my worth to be around [00:30:30] the way that I looked. And I think the danger with modelling is, is that you’re literally your [00:30:35] face and your body becomes a declining, um, [00:30:40] asset. You know, it’s basically devalues as you get older because that’s what people, unless [00:30:45] you become an older model. But essentially I was like, you know what? If I become a dentist or a doctor, I know [00:30:50] that I can help people. And it’s not just about the way I look, it’s about the way I make people feel. And that was a really important [00:30:55] thing for me that I understood and knew. And I don’t know how you feel because I know that you do modelling as well.

Georgia Meacham: I [00:31:00] mean, there’s a lot from what you said about pretty privilege, because that’s [00:31:05] a huge topic. And I think, I think it’s okay to use [00:31:10] what you have, but in the right way. For example, I feel [00:31:15] my modelling career has obviously given me a platform, but I think it’s about I think a lot of people, [00:31:20] they use their privilege, Whatever it whether it’s money, whether [00:31:25] it’s pretty privilege, irresponsibly, responsibly. You know, a lot of people, [00:31:30] a lot of people are super wealthy or they’ve got this huge platform. [00:31:35] They’re an A-list celebrity. But what do they do? Do they do enough charity work? [00:31:40] Do they do enough.

Rhona Eskander: Talking to disagree with you for someone, for one aspect?

Georgia Meacham: Okay. And then [00:31:45] we’ll go back to the modelling.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. Because one thing that it says you said responsibly and payments that irresponsibly [00:31:50] because I would agree like some people are using, they would say they’re empowered but they’re using [00:31:55] both happen. Yeah. But the thing is like something like OnlyFans, right. For example. So they’re using the body in the way that [00:32:00] they look and they say, well, who cares? Like I’m here now to exploit men. I’m [00:32:05] rich. I’m living in my penthouse in Battersea or whatever it is, because I’m [00:32:10] using the way that I look to get money. I don’t know if I fully agree, if I’m honest with [00:32:15] that, because I don’t know if that is using it the way you look for purpose.

Georgia Meacham: But I there’s, [00:32:20] you know, modelling I would say that’s using your what you have in a responsible way because [00:32:25] it’s a job. You earn money. You’re not harming anyone. Onlyfans. [00:32:30] Again, controversial. I would never do it because I don’t think [00:32:35] it’s always 100% responsible in a sense that other [00:32:40] people can be affected by it. Um, it can do damage. [00:32:45] Um, it can do damage to society and the younger generation. [00:32:50] Whereas I think if you’re doing something that’s not harming anyone, that’s okay. [00:32:55]

Rhona Eskander: It’s fine. Yeah, I get it, I get it. I think.

[TRANSITION]: A bit.

Payman Langroudi: Judgemental of both of you though, lol. [00:33:00] Insomuch as you know why. Why shouldn’t a woman be a sex worker of [00:33:05] any sort?

Rhona Eskander: I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be a sex worker.

Payman Langroudi: Whether it’s OnlyFans.

Georgia Meacham: Do whatever you want to do, [00:33:10] but as long as it’s not harming your family, as long as it’s not.

Rhona Eskander: Harming your mental health.

Georgia Meacham: Or harming your [00:33:15] mental health. And if you’re a sex worker but you’re the if you’re a sex worker [00:33:20] and the person that you’re, um, one of your clients, for example, [00:33:25] is married. You’re affecting another family and situations like that. [00:33:30]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, but if you work in a, if you’re a chef and you’re one of your clients is overweight, you know what [00:33:35] I mean? It’s not, it’s not, it’s not it’s not down to that person’s. It’s not their lookout.

Rhona Eskander: I think we’re getting into [00:33:40] such a big moral dilemma here.

Payman Langroudi: My point my point is, I wouldn’t have thought two people like you would come down so [00:33:45] judgemental on OnlyFans because.

Rhona Eskander: No, no, no, I’m not judgemental. Do what you want. I’m sure there’s [00:33:50] going to be a Dental niche. Can you imagine? Can you imagine if there’s like a dentist girl that suddenly does like dental porn [00:33:55] and there’s people that are into it? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, can you imagine there are people that [00:34:00] pay for that. Can you imagine?

Georgia Meacham: It’s like it’s like the the the new girl, Bonnie Blue. I think [00:34:05] it’s awful how much media attention she’s getting.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, but that was the thing.

Georgia Meacham: Because doing [00:34:10] so much damage.

Rhona Eskander: I mean.

Georgia Meacham: It’s it’s actually horrific.

Rhona Eskander: There is there’s also a difference between Bonnie [00:34:15] Blue and Lily Phillips because people say that, like when people look at Lily Phillips, because Lily Phillips obviously is trying to break [00:34:20] a world record. She slept with 100 guys in one day and now she wants to do 1000.

Georgia Meacham: I almost don’t want to talk about it because they’ve [00:34:25] had so much attention.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I know. I know it’s true, but I’m going to I’m going to just make a point here that they then [00:34:30] someone did a documentary and then, oh, guys, who’s the woman that used to be on the Daily Wire? Payman. [00:34:35] You know, Candace Owens. Candace Owens also like, went on like an interview and basically [00:34:40] said to, like, I don’t think you’re happy. I think that basically she’s like, why are you doing it? And she was like, I’m [00:34:45] not doing it for the money. And she was like, but why are you doing? She’s like, but it’s really nice to wake up and be able to like, buy a cup of [00:34:50] coffee and not think about it. So you’re doing it for the money like, no, no, no, I’m not. And she was like, because, like, I have enough money now. She’s like, [00:34:55] so why are you doing. You’re doing it for the infamy. And the thing is then I think I’m like.

Payman Langroudi: What’s wrong [00:35:00] with.

Rhona Eskander: That? That’s fine, that’s fine. But also when it comes down to it, like when you question further [00:35:05] and further and she she ended up like bursting into tears at the end of the documentary. Arguably [00:35:10] people were like, well, she just exhausted because she slept with 100 guys one after another, or if [00:35:15] she actually emotionally broken. And I think that begs the question because she also admitted that [00:35:20] when you go on those platforms, you’re playing a role. You’re an actress in a way. The [00:35:25] thing is about Bonnie Blue. I think the problem was, is that people thought, because she was proudly saying, [00:35:30] women are lazy if they don’t have sex with their husband and they deserve to be cheated [00:35:35] on.

Payman Langroudi: It’s just the social media game, right? I mean, there’s a woman, there’s a woman sitting, [00:35:40] but there’s a woman sitting in Morgan Stanley, right?

Georgia Meacham: But that’s not that doesn’t make it okay, even if.

Rhona Eskander: It’s.

Georgia Meacham: Okay. [00:35:45] Because the effect that it’s having on the younger generation, like imagine [00:35:50] your your son like thinking that that’s okay. And watching that video and learning [00:35:55] from that.

Rhona Eskander: Correct.

Payman Langroudi: That generation are so savvy to it. You guys are now old. That’s what it is. [00:36:00] That’s what it is. That’s what it is. That generation is so savage.

Georgia Meacham: Like, oh [00:36:05] my God.

Payman Langroudi: Back to.

Georgia Meacham: Modelling. I always think about like my children and.

Payman Langroudi: They’re [00:36:10] so savvy to it. They’re so digitally native. They get all of this stuff, you know like I know. [00:36:15]

Georgia Meacham: But we can still make some Make some changes.

Rhona Eskander: But I don’t want to give them any more airtime. That’s been concluded. [00:36:20] We’re not.

Payman Langroudi: Modelling. Back to.

Rhona Eskander: Modelling.

Georgia Meacham: We were talking about the modelling. What was your what was your point?

Rhona Eskander: So [00:36:25] my point was, is that I never wanted to.

Georgia Meacham: Because you didn’t want to be judged by.

Rhona Eskander: So [00:36:30] it’s not even that, but also I recognising that it was a depreciating asset. Because if we’re going to [00:36:35] measure beauty by youth, naturally, it’s very rare that you see people go into modelling like later [00:36:40] on in life, like sustain a career from when they were in their heyday, 17 up until 60 [00:36:45] or whatever.

Georgia Meacham: Me um, my aim was never to be a model. I was very academic at school, [00:36:50] went to a good university, studied English and that was never the [00:36:55] aim, but fell into it. And I thought, do you know what this is going to add? Life experience? Yeah, [00:37:00] to me and probably make me a better person. And I’m going to use this opportunity. [00:37:05]

Payman Langroudi: Were you?

Georgia Meacham: Uh, I got scouted when I was 18. [00:37:10] Yeah. University time. So I came out of university and I was like, I’ll just give it a [00:37:15] go for a few years. A few years became eight years later nine.

Rhona Eskander: Did you enjoy it? Overall.

Georgia Meacham: 100%. [00:37:20] I got to work with some of my close friends every day. I got to travel [00:37:25] and when I mean travel, I went to places like Iceland. Um, can’t [00:37:30] think of the.

Rhona Eskander: Catwalk or.

Georgia Meacham: Commercial.

Rhona Eskander: Were you catwalk or commercial?

Georgia Meacham: Both. Okay, I’ve [00:37:35] got a bit of a baby face, but obviously I’m six foot as well.

Payman Langroudi: And did you handle the rejection of castings. [00:37:40]

Rhona Eskander: And all of that? Like did.

Payman Langroudi: You. Because I can’t.

Rhona Eskander: Imagine.

Payman Langroudi: I can’t imagine you being very good at that.

Rhona Eskander: I was terrible.

Georgia Meacham: Well. [00:37:45]

Rhona Eskander: You’ve seen ugly all the time.

Georgia Meacham: Go on. You’ve just seen how sensitive I am. Yeah. [00:37:50] I cry like a baby. So for me, I think my, [00:37:55] my mum was like, are you going to be able to handle the rejection side of things because you take everything deeply [00:38:00] and you feel deeply, but I think it’s it’s the way [00:38:05] you respond to rejection. I respond to rejection now as it [00:38:10] was an opportunity for more growth. It wasn’t right for me. I think it’s just about the way Also, [00:38:15] you can learn that, you can learn how to respond to rejection. [00:38:20] So I think anyone can learn it, even if at the beginning you say, oh, I couldn’t go into that job [00:38:25] because I can’t handle rejection well, you can learn how to handle.

Payman Langroudi: I found interesting on this.

Georgia Meacham: Subject, isn’t. [00:38:30]

Payman Langroudi: It? Of course it’s a muscle in itself.

Georgia Meacham: It’s a muscle. There we go.

Payman Langroudi: But what I found interesting about this question that you’re saying [00:38:35] is that models then self-select for people who are interested in them, not for their looks, [00:38:40] you know.

Rhona Eskander: What do you mean? I understand that.

Payman Langroudi: Question. If you’ve got a model, you’re talking to a model about something [00:38:45] that isn’t to do with her looks. She’s much more interested in that conversation than all [00:38:50] the conversations about the way she looks. Yeah. So they end up they end up selecting themselves for those [00:38:55] conversations, finding those people more interesting. I might find models interesting because they’re pretty. Yeah, [00:39:00] they find people who are not interested in looks interesting. You know, it’s [00:39:05] like the ones I’ve spoken to that generally. That’s what ends up happening to them.

Georgia Meacham: But sorry, [00:39:10] Rayna, back to your the second point that you that you made and leading [00:39:15] off your point, um, that for me, I was only ever going. To use [00:39:20] modelling to do what I wanted to do, which was.

Payman Langroudi: Acting.

Georgia Meacham: To [00:39:25] act or to use my voice in the right way. And so for me, modelling [00:39:30] has helped me with that. Um, so it’s a blessing. And I’ve always [00:39:35] made sure that it hasn’t defined me.

Rhona Eskander: And did did they know about the hearing [00:39:40] aid?

Georgia Meacham: No.

Rhona Eskander: Do you think that in the fashion industry [00:39:45] that they would discriminate? What did you see? Any models with disabilities? [00:39:50]

Georgia Meacham: No. Um, you know, when I started, which was 9 or 10 years ago, the [00:39:55] beauty standard was ridiculous. Shocking, wasn’t it? You know, you had to be size [00:40:00] six or size eight and you had to be six foot, whereas [00:40:05] now that’s like too tall. But, um, so I think I could, I could [00:40:10] just about fit in that little, little box without showing my hearing aids. Um, [00:40:15] so I just feel like I felt enormous pressure, and I [00:40:20] just felt this huge tension, and I felt like I couldn’t compromise [00:40:25] by showing them because the box was so small.

Payman Langroudi: Have you felt have [00:40:30] you found you’ve now got the opposite happening? Are you getting jobs because of the diversity? Diversity [00:40:35] inclusion kind of agenda?

Georgia Meacham: Actually interesting you ask I actually just signed [00:40:40] with an exclusive agency. Who who you know, [00:40:45] their, their main thing is representing people with disabilities.

Rhona Eskander: I love [00:40:50] that.

Georgia Meacham: And for me, at first I wasn’t sure because I feel [00:40:55] like you can make a bigger impact, um, in, in a [00:41:00] normal agency by being.

Rhona Eskander: The only one. Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Because if you’re just [00:41:05] part of an agency that’s just focuses on disabled talent, [00:41:10] you’re kind of expanding the bridge, expanding that gap more [00:41:15] and more. Because you’re you’re compartmentalising yourself.

Payman Langroudi: Interesting way of looking at it.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. [00:41:20] So I was like, no, I want to be the only one in a, in a normal mainstream modelling agency [00:41:25] so I can make more of a difference. But now I’m just going to be part [00:41:30] of it all to, to spread myself more and to, you know, [00:41:35] I’ve got this, this little goal of the year. And I’m just going [00:41:40] to put it out there just in case it happens of I only got my ears pierced about [00:41:45] a year and a half ago, two years ago, because I didn’t want to draw any [00:41:50] attention to my ears. And, you know.

Payman Langroudi: That’s.

Georgia Meacham: Something.

Payman Langroudi: That these sort of details, [00:41:55] you know, you never think about.

Georgia Meacham: There we go. And, you know, I remember looking at all these other girls and my friends, [00:42:00] they’d always wear these lovely earrings. And I thought, oh, that’s a shame. I’ll never I [00:42:05] just accepted oh, I’ll never I’ll never be able to have earrings [00:42:10] or, you know, have that kind of glamorous element.

Rhona Eskander: But now people [00:42:15] are even decorating their hearing aids.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah, but now I make sure I wear the biggest [00:42:20] earrings and the boldest earrings. Yeah. To kind of make up for that lost time. And I’d [00:42:25] love to get a jewellery campaign where my hearing aid is visible, [00:42:30] because I’ve never seen that.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I’d love that.

Payman Langroudi: Have you played a deaf person? [00:42:35] Pardon? Have you ever played a deaf person?

Georgia Meacham: No. Because obviously [00:42:40] I wasn’t.

Payman Langroudi: So recent that you’ve come out so.

Georgia Meacham: Recently that I’ve kind of come [00:42:45] out. There’s a really interesting what you just asked. You said, have [00:42:50] I ever played a deaf person? I think something that needs [00:42:55] to be worked on in the TV [00:43:00] and film industry is that so many stories when it comes to [00:43:05] a disabled person, the story is based around their Their disability. And [00:43:10] I think we need to start changing that narrative. That their disability is just it’s just [00:43:15] there. So it’s more normal. And the storyline is about their love life [00:43:20] or.

Rhona Eskander: About.

Georgia Meacham: Anything else.

Payman Langroudi: The same with with black actors or. [00:43:25]

Rhona Eskander: But we know. But we know that as well. I mean, I’ve talked about.

Georgia Meacham: This.

Rhona Eskander: Being being Middle-Eastern. It’s always everything. [00:43:30] We’re always terrorists. Do you know what I mean? Like always, you know, that’s what I mean.

Georgia Meacham: The more changes we do [00:43:35] for for one group of people, it helps everyone else. It’s a ripple [00:43:40] effect.

Rhona Eskander: I think it’s also like that.

Georgia Meacham: We’re all bloody different, aren’t we?

Rhona Eskander: That’s different. That’s where also like, things like [00:43:45] Disney need to take massive responsibility and they thank God Disney changed the story of, [00:43:50] um, the Disney princess being saved by the prince and the Disney princess looking a certain way. And then it [00:43:55] was like, do you know what? Mona’s going to own her own island and she ain’t going to have a boyfriend and she ain’t going to be [00:44:00] saved. And it’s like, that’s changing now, you know, like the storylines are changing because [00:44:05] what impacted me as a child, which I’m sure is with you, like, I literally believe Disney and I got into university [00:44:10] and I was like, where’s the prince? Literally, you know, like he’s going to come save me on the horse, I get picked, [00:44:15] I get chosen, you know, because I’m going to be so beautiful like the Disney narrative. So I think that’s really [00:44:20] important when I think about it. I’m like, I can’t think of a single Disney film or Pixar where you have somebody with a disability [00:44:25] is there. The disability is literally braces. Like, I remember that from Finding Nemo, you know? I mean. [00:44:30]

Georgia Meacham: Do you remember that that girl, she her Finding.

Rhona Eskander: Nemo was the braces headgear. [00:44:35] That was her disability. Oh my.

Georgia Meacham: Gosh. Wow. Like, that’s so different.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. So I think that that’s really [00:44:40] important.

Georgia Meacham: So yeah, times are changing. Slowly, slowly.

Rhona Eskander: Um, the other thing that I want to know [00:44:45] is, um, what role do you think that interpreters and technology [00:44:50] play in creating a better mental health outcomes for the deaf community?

Georgia Meacham: Um, [00:44:55] a huge part because there’s we don’t have enough interpreters, [00:45:00] sign language interpreters. And if you think about if we’re having a therapy session and [00:45:05] Myself or someone else has to have a sign language interpreter. [00:45:10] Um, sorry if there isn’t a sign language interpreter [00:45:15] available. That means that either a family friend or a [00:45:20] family, a family friend, a friend, or a family member has to be there in [00:45:25] order to help with the communication barrier. And that means that [00:45:30] that person that’s attending therapy may not be able to talk about certain topics because they’ve [00:45:35] got that family member there or that friend member. Um, and I can sort of relate [00:45:40] in the same way that when I, whenever I’ve been a hospital, which [00:45:45] has been a lot um, I’ve always had my mum there because sometimes [00:45:50] I don’t always hear things the first time round. And especially with medical terminology, [00:45:55] it’s really, really.

Payman Langroudi: Hard enough when you can hear.

Georgia Meacham: Exactly. And it’s really important that you’re [00:46:00] hearing everything because it’s important advice that’s being given. So I’ve [00:46:05] always had someone else there, my mum and and sometimes when I’ve had, say, operations and certain [00:46:10] things like that, I have to I’ve had my hearing aids taken out. Um, [00:46:15] so it’s even more important that I’ve always had a person there. So, um, yeah, [00:46:20] that’s why I’m really family is a huge.

Payman Langroudi: If you haven’t got them in. Do you hear nothing?

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. [00:46:25]

Georgia Meacham: No. So I’m moderately to severe, severely deaf in both ears. So [00:46:30] I do have a bit of hearing. Hearing aids just amplify sounds. Um, [00:46:35] I think there’s a misconception that as soon as I put my hearing aids in, I can hear, like, [00:46:40] you guys. Yeah, that’s not the case. They just amplify, um, I [00:46:45] struggle, say, if I’m in a cinema because it’s technology to [00:46:50] technology, sometimes you get weird sounds. Um, [00:46:55] and that’s why when we came in this room today, I could hear. Yeah, something [00:47:00] different to you guys. Yeah. So, yeah, there’s lots of Misconceptions, I think. [00:47:05] Um, and yeah, so I do hear a bit, but I have to be close to you. I have to make sure I can [00:47:10] see your lips if it’s a dark room or late at night. I really struggle, like on holidays with [00:47:15] friends, when it starts to get late at night and everyone’s, like, chatting by the pool, I feel like I [00:47:20] don’t really get chats as much.

Rhona Eskander: What about nightclubs? Hook-ups [00:47:25] like no, no. Is it no nightclubs? Like dance clubs? Yeah. Hook-ups no, no [00:47:30] I can’t.

Payman Langroudi: I can’t hear nightclubs.

Rhona Eskander: No. So so like when there’s really loud music, [00:47:35] how is it for you?

Georgia Meacham: Hard. Hard?

Rhona Eskander: Do you actually not enjoy it? Do you know what I mean? [00:47:40] Like, you know, if there’s like a big day.

Georgia Meacham: Dj, sometimes if something’s too loud, I take my hearing [00:47:45] aids out. So it’s. Yeah, because also, you’ve got to remember, I’m not used to hearing loud sounds [00:47:50] all the time so I can get, like, a sensory overload. Um, so it’s really important that I have [00:47:55] those quiet moments. So in a nightclub, if I have my hearing aids in for the full time, I [00:48:00] would, I would just be knocked out. So even at the cinema, like sometimes [00:48:05] I have to lower the volume on my hearing aid because it’s just too loud to me because I’m not used to it. So. [00:48:10]

Rhona Eskander: So with regards to dating, obviously you’ve had relationships hook-ups [00:48:15] that we can get onto that. Have you had any discrimination? Like [00:48:20] do you feel like there have been. And obviously if those are those people, they’re not even worth [00:48:25] your time. But have you had any experience of that or not has been like [00:48:30] overwhelmingly positive, or has there been times where, like someone finds out or they see and they’re like, you feel [00:48:35] like them sort of pull back?

Georgia Meacham: Surprisingly, it’s been really positive.

Rhona Eskander: Good. [00:48:40] That’s amazing.

Georgia Meacham: I remember my second partner. Lovely. [00:48:45] Lovely guy. Um, I kind of. I [00:48:50] think we were on the third week of dating, and I was thinking, why? I need to tell him [00:48:55] soon. Soon. And just in case he thinks I’m ignoring him or, you know, we’re in a difficult situation. [00:49:00] And so I so I really, you know, I motivated myself. [00:49:05] I was like, okay, is this the right time to do it? Is this anyway? We were in the car and [00:49:10] I was like, okay, this is the moment to tell him. And I told him and it was [00:49:15] such a huge moment and I was thinking, oh my God, what’s he going to reply? How’s he going to reply? Is he going to have a [00:49:20] big reaction to this? And he turned around and he said, oh, I already [00:49:25] knew.

Rhona Eskander: Mhm.

Georgia Meacham: I saw it. Um, one morning you, you [00:49:30] just moved your hand and I saw it and. Yeah. So I already knew, I [00:49:35] couldn’t believe.

Rhona Eskander: It. Yeah.

[TRANSITION]: He was so chilled about [00:49:40] it and um.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. So I think I’ve been really lucky in that sense. Not lucky. [00:49:45] Um, yeah. It’s just. Yeah. No one’s had a big reaction about [00:49:50] it again. It’s. It was always me. It was just always a big thing for me.

Payman Langroudi: Something. [00:49:55] Something you said on Shivani’s podcast sort of struck me. It was [00:50:00] or something. She said something. The question around, you know, who’s who’s got permission [00:50:05] to ask questions like this? I mean, I don’t know. I mean, in this [00:50:10] room, I’ve had people and asked them questions and then maybe later on thought maybe I shouldn’t have [00:50:15] even asked that question. Is that is that is that a thing for you?

Georgia Meacham: I think it’s [00:50:20] the more questions you ask whether it’s, you know, how can we help or [00:50:25] those kind of questions.

Payman Langroudi: I think now in this room, of course, in this room, of [00:50:30] course, you’d say that would be good for you to get this message out, right? Yes. But in [00:50:35] in life, day to day life, when someone finds out or if you know, is there [00:50:40] an.

Georgia Meacham: You know what? I really encourage people to ask whatever questions they want or they [00:50:45] think because also some questions, no question is [00:50:50] going to be wrong. And and I will. I think we should encourage [00:50:55] people for being brave enough to even ask a question about [00:51:00] someone’s struggle or.

Rhona Eskander: The thing is, it’s interesting that you say that. So one of my best [00:51:05] friends, she’s a psychotherapist and they were having a, um, [00:51:10] they have like group therapy sessions as part of their training because she’s training to do it. [00:51:15] And one of the, um, other candidates was like talking about pronouns [00:51:20] because it’s really important for them to be addressed by they. Yeah. And one [00:51:25] of the other therapists in the group was like, oh, but, you know, like, I’m just really curious to know [00:51:30] about the whole pronoun argument. And the other person was like, not offended, [00:51:35] but they were like, it’s not my job to educate you. There is enough information on the internet about why [00:51:40] pronouns are important.

Payman Langroudi: Why are they important to you?

Rhona Eskander: And and.

Payman Langroudi: It’s.

Rhona Eskander: A different question. No, because [00:51:45] I think I think that person was like, what’s the history of it? Like how did it come about? Like asking a lot of questions. [00:51:50] Okay. But the person that wanted to be.

Georgia Meacham: Addressed really positive because they’re interested [00:51:55] and.

[TRANSITION]: They.

Rhona Eskander: Want to know the way the person because the person was like, you’re being lazy because you’re not doing [00:52:00] the work to actually, like, research it. Like you’re almost being like, ignorant. Do you know [00:52:05] what I mean? Whereas there is enough now out there for you to just go up and Google it or like, [00:52:10] watch YouTube on it or something like that. So I do think people’s views are different.

Payman Langroudi: It’s in the nuance [00:52:15] though. I mean, if she just didn’t like her, maybe that’s the way she would say it.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I think like I think it really is [00:52:20] deeply individual. Like, I once had a person that I knew and I genuinely was asking, [00:52:25] um, a question. Um, they were of Islamic faith. And I was asking a question [00:52:30] because there was another influencer of Islamic faith, faith that was like presenting [00:52:35] toxic masculinity and talking about the religion, like as a whole. And [00:52:40] I asked that person, but I think I had offended her, and I didn’t mean to, but I actually wanted to [00:52:45] ask her. I was like, this guy says this like, what would be your response to it? And she was like, that’s [00:52:50] such a minority. And I was like, oh, because to me it looks like the majority, because of the amount of engagement he’s [00:52:55] getting on his post. And I really, genuinely wanted to be educated. I wasn’t doing it to offend, but [00:53:00] that person took offence. And then I, like you, was like, oh God, maybe I shouldn’t have asked that. Do you see? I mean, I just quietly do my own research, [00:53:05] you know?

Georgia Meacham: But then I think it’s better to ask and get a response of do [00:53:10] your own research. You shouldn’t ask that or do your own research. Because the more we stop [00:53:15] people from asking certain questions, the more they’re going to stop asking [00:53:20] certain questions about other topics.

Payman Langroudi: And yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So I want [00:53:25] to ask you.

Georgia Meacham: Restricts.

Rhona Eskander: Can you share.

[TRANSITION]: Why are you doing that.

Rhona Eskander: Because I’m like looking [00:53:30] and I’m like genuinely interested in this. Can you share a moment when you felt truly heard [00:53:35] and understood in the metaphorical sense, despite the challenges that you faced? [00:53:40]

Georgia Meacham: I think I’m just going to keep it simple, not too [00:53:45] deep. Um, but I think just, you know, as I said, those those messages [00:53:50] that I’ve received from everyday people, people from all walks of life, [00:53:55] Um. Um. That keeps me. Sorry. What was your question [00:54:00] again?

Rhona Eskander: So can you share a moment when you felt truly heard and understood despite [00:54:05] challenges?

Georgia Meacham: I think it’s when I’ve just told, when [00:54:10] I started to tell people. Oh, by the way, I’ve [00:54:15] known you for this long. But did you know that I wear two hearing aids and then just have no [00:54:20] sort of reaction? I think by by them not having a reaction, [00:54:25] I felt really seen. Yeah. Which is kind of.

Rhona Eskander: Like the guy [00:54:30] you were dating, and he was like, I already knew.

[TRANSITION]: Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Like, I didn’t even have to bring it up because, like, who cares kind of thing.

Georgia Meacham: Yeah. [00:54:35] And, um, I think sometimes by not having [00:54:40] to have certain conversations with people, um, because [00:54:45] they already know you feel more seen in that way because you’re sometimes [00:54:50] you feel like you’re constantly having to speak up for yourself, advocate for yourself. So sometimes when you don’t have [00:54:55] to do it, you feel the most seen.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Which is a bit of a weird way to think about it. [00:55:00]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. No, I, I understand, that’s beautiful.

Payman Langroudi: Are you driven by you wish [00:55:05] there was someone like you when you were younger?

Georgia Meacham: 100%. I have a [00:55:10] a picture of myself as a younger girl on my mirror. Wow. And I always [00:55:15] think, wow, it would. It would have changed my life. And there’s another thing [00:55:20] that if I had learned sign language at a young age, um, [00:55:25] it would have definitely helped me accept my identity more.

Rhona Eskander: Why did you choose not [00:55:30] to?

Georgia Meacham: Um, because I only had the kind of opportunity when I was young [00:55:35] and my parents thought, let’s teach Georgia how to speak first and see how she gets on. [00:55:40] And then I actually just never had the other another opportunity to.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. [00:55:45]

Georgia Meacham: Which is a bit crazy. Um, and. Yeah, if, if I, if [00:55:50] I could sign, I would have then been able to communicate with other deaf children, [00:55:55] and I would have just felt like I belonged somewhere. I think as well, as [00:56:00] you said earlier, I speak so well. I cope so well that [00:56:05] I felt I wasn’t deaf enough and [00:56:10] I wasn’t hearing enough. So I think the fact that even [00:56:15] though I was coping so well, I was in the middle of [00:56:20] both of these worlds, so I felt more isolated.

Rhona Eskander: I [00:56:25] know it sounds really weird, and I’m going to be a little bit controversial here. Like, obviously you’re [00:56:30] ridiculously beautiful. You’re six foot, you’re slim, you’re blonde, [00:56:35] your blue eyed, your stunning confident. Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Can you, can you marry.

Rhona Eskander: Me? I [00:56:40] propose, I propose. But do you get some people that are deaf [00:56:45] and resentful? So what I mean is they consider that you might have a degree of pretty privilege [00:56:50] where they’re like, well, it’s all good for her. For her. She might be deaf, but she’s actually, like, white and beautiful [00:56:55] and tall. Do you know what I mean? And then they’re like, she doesn’t really get it. Do you ever get that?

Georgia Meacham: There’s [00:57:00] always. There’s always going to be those people.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: And, um, [00:57:05] I will continue to do what I do because.

Rhona Eskander: So you do get some of that because [00:57:10] I know I do.

Georgia Meacham: You know what I would say? It’s like 1% of people, which again, [00:57:15] maybe is surprising. Um, but it [00:57:20] nor that 1%.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: Because as I said, even if I just help [00:57:25] two people in my lifetime, I’ve done enough. Yeah. So and I think as well [00:57:30] it’s about showing up and just being just by being here today [00:57:35] and showing my hearing aids. I guess to a certain extent that already [00:57:40] is helping so many people.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah for sure.

Georgia Meacham: So yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Okay. [00:57:45] And I want to know, I want to know for [00:57:50] listeners who may not be deaf but want to support family, friends or colleagues [00:57:55] in the community. What’s the best way to show empathy and understanding? You said already. Like ask questions [00:58:00] so we know that. Is there anything else?

Georgia Meacham: Yes. So make sure you speak [00:58:05] clearly.

Rhona Eskander: And loudly.

Georgia Meacham: And loudly, but not too loudly, because that just [00:58:10] sometimes comes across as passive aggressive. Maybe would make someone [00:58:15] like myself feel a bit scared. Yeah. By the way, you’re talking [00:58:20] to me. So yeah. Speak loudly. Clearly. Don’t cover your lips. Okay, [00:58:25] so I know when people talk, sometimes they use just make sure your lips are on [00:58:30] show and that the environment that you’re in, it’s slightly lit, like today is perfect. I can see you [00:58:35] both. Um, and if there’s background noise, just try and accommodate that person. [00:58:40] You know, it’s such a simple question. Where would you like to sit? Do you need if [00:58:45] someone’s deaf in one ear? Oh, do you want me to sit that side so it’s easier or this side. It. So [00:58:50] it’s very, very simple. But it’s just things that I don’t think we think of enough.

Payman Langroudi: I [00:58:55] feel like we’ve been a bit guilty of the sort of situation about just talking about [00:59:00] your deafness. You know, we’ve done that during this part. We’ve talked [00:59:05] about other things.

Rhona Eskander: But the thing is, I know, but the thing is, is I came with that intention only in [00:59:10] the sense that I feel that I obviously know.

Georgia Meacham: Why do you feel guilty [00:59:15] about it?

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. Why do you feel guilty?

Payman Langroudi: Because, you know, because of what you said. You know, because almost. [00:59:20]

Rhona Eskander: I’m sorry. Can I just interject there? I don’t know, I might be wrong, but I think almost the fact that we are having [00:59:25] a conversation about it, a normal conversation, is exactly the purpose of why [00:59:30] we are having this. Because, as Georgia said, you know, people might feel like they want to shy away [00:59:35] from it or they want to they don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to understand it.

Georgia Meacham: And also it’s [00:59:40] it’s okay to not know, like things or not, I, [00:59:45] I came across a completely mute person. So someone that doesn’t speak at [00:59:50] all. And obviously that’s someone that’s part of my community. And I panicked [00:59:55] because I didn’t know how to communicate with them. So I think the more we just have conversations [01:00:00] and you ask people and. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I think, [01:00:05] you know, I think that this is.

Georgia Meacham: A great I think you’re right in a sense that, you know, there [01:00:10] becomes this thing where you don’t want to be like, I don’t want my deafness to define me [01:00:15] exactly. But also it’s a huge part of me.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, absolutely.

Georgia Meacham: And it’s something that [01:00:20] I never wanted to define me for so long that now I’m like, it’s new.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [01:00:25]

Georgia Meacham: Gosh.

Payman Langroudi: Like.

Georgia Meacham: It’s about bloody time. [01:00:30]

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. No. I’m so proud of you. And one thing that I [01:00:35] do want to ask you is, is that if you could leave our listeners with one powerful message about mental [01:00:40] health, what would it be?

Georgia Meacham: So there’s a quote that I love. [01:00:45] Um, and it can be taken in so many different ways, which I think is why [01:00:50] it’s so beautiful. The more you glow, the more others glow back.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, I love that. [01:00:55]

Georgia Meacham: And I think it’s whether you’re being vulnerable. So if I’m [01:01:00] vulnerable, it will encourage you to be vulnerable too. Um, and it’s, [01:01:05] it’s about inviting everyone to shine in their own [01:01:10] unique way.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah.

Georgia Meacham: And it’s a ripple effect, isn’t it? Yeah. So the kinder you are to [01:01:15] someone, they’re more likely to be kind back. Um, yeah. [01:01:20]

Rhona Eskander: I love that. And that’s why when I met you, it was love at first sight. There we go. [01:01:25] I can get on my knee like positive, positive. Just beautiful [01:01:30] energy. And you’re such an amazing advocate and amazing woman.

Georgia Meacham: It means a lot.

Rhona Eskander: And I’m so grateful [01:01:35] you could be here today.

Payman Langroudi: Susana. Huh?

Rhona Eskander: Yes, but, Georgia, you didn’t come to [01:01:40] the party of the century. Tell him how he missed out.

Georgia Meacham: Supported.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah. And, um, that’s when I [01:01:45] saw Georgia. And obviously, like, being such a powerhouse and such a beautiful woman. You know, everyone was like, who’s that [01:01:50] tall, leggy blonde?

Georgia Meacham: Well, I was more like, where’s this Queen Rhona.

Rhona Eskander: That.

Georgia Meacham: Everyone’s talking [01:01:55] about?

Rhona Eskander: So, um, and then we had a night out together in London with the girl that organised my party [01:02:00] and so on, and we just got on really well and just really connected, I think, like Soft Souls [01:02:05] connect. And that was star sign. Are you.

Georgia Meacham: Sagittarius?

Rhona Eskander: Oh, yeah. You said that. But yeah, I’m a Pisces, so I’m a [01:02:10] typical what star sign are you Taurus? Oh, that explains everything. Is it.

Georgia Meacham: March? [01:02:15]

Payman Langroudi: No.

Rhona Eskander: I’m March. Oh, my God, I really don’t like Tauruses. It’s really sad for me. [01:02:20]

Payman Langroudi: I’m more on the Knightsbridge end of Taurus.

[TRANSITION]: Oh, I love that. Okay, I love [01:02:25] that.

Rhona Eskander: Um, okay. Well, thank you, everyone for listening. Uh, Georgia, what is your Instagram [01:02:30] so people can look it up, please.

Georgia Meacham: Just simple Georgia Meecham. [01:02:35]

Rhona Eskander: So please have a look. She’s amazingly inspirational and aspirational, as I said. And please don’t forget to [01:02:40] like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. Bye everyone!