This week sees the return of dentist, educator and breakdancer extraordinaire Shiraz Khan. 

Shiraz reveals how he almost chose a career in medicine before setting on dentistry. He describes starting on the first rung of the ladder as a receptionist and the joy of discovering he’d been accepted at dental school.

He also chats about family life, overcoming career challenges, and the inspiration behind his trademark sartorial elegance.



In This Episode

01.11 – Backstory

09.32 – Discovering dentistry

13.48 – Break dancing

19.28 – Dental school

22.38 – First job and taking off

36.13 – Family life and work-life balance

58.35 – Fashion

01.04.41 – Teaching

01.08.10 – Blackbox thinking

01.11.00 – Last days and legacy


About Shiraz Khan

Shiraz graduated from Birmingham Dental School in 2013 and went on study restorative dentistry at Croydon University Hospital and Guy’s and St Thomas.

He has won various awards, including Best Young Dentist 2017, Rising European Star in Dentistry 2018 and best restorative case at the Aesthetic Dentistry Awards 2019. Shiraz has also won the Fast Track 4 award, recognising the profession’s future leaders. 

He is director of the Young Dentist Academy and a prolific trainer and lecturer with IAS Academy, whose appearances include EXCIDA’s 75th national congress in Tehran, Iran. 

[00:00:00] I went into this practice, did some experience, and I was like, Listen, I’d love to work. Like, I’d love to work here in any capacity. So I started as a dental receptionist. How interesting. I started as a dental receptionist. So in 2008, they introduced GDC registration for nurses. So up until I’d finished, I worked as a nurse. What was it? So now I’m being exposed to all of the clinical stuff. And you know what? I was thinking about this the other day, that that’s exactly what I’m like. Like, if I want to do something, I throw myself so that I’m totally immersed within that subject so that I can become the best at it that is in my ability. So then I was working in a dental practice five days a week as a nurse, as a nurse receptionist for nine months before I went to dental school.

[00:00:53] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts, Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[00:01:11] Just tell us about your upbringing. Yeah. Where you grew up, what growing up or what life as a kid was like for you. Just give us a potted history. So for those that know me quite well, I have no medical background in my family. So very, very simply, my parents very much worked working class for their whole lives. Education wasn’t a prospect for them, and they worked incredibly hard to be able to provide for three kids myself, my sister and my brother. But education was quite an important thing for them, so that, as we’ve said before, they didn’t live we didn’t live the life that they had to go through to provide for us. And it was difficult, you know. There wasn’t you know, there wasn’t, you know, new clothes or trainers or phones or whatever it was literally means to getting day by day. I was in an area that wasn’t hugely populated with my ethnicity, so that had its challenges, too. He had grown over the over the last couple of decades, but I was one of a few Asian, Asian, Arabic, whatever you want to call it. Kids in my school, which had its challenges. What do you mean by challenges? Very openly. And he’s your darker skin than everyone. And all of a sudden, as children, which can be very, very mean, a difference is an opportunity to get one over on someone. So whilst a lot of my friends were really lovely, there was definitely a crowd that that weren’t fans, if you can call it that, without any reason for it.

[00:02:44] If we just dig a bit deeper into that Shiraz and just take the lid off it. All right. They weren’t fans, but what was the was day to day? I mean, there was was bullying. There was not getting picked for a football side. All of this stuff like that means so much to you as a kid. You know, like when you when you’re on the line and you’re choosing teams for football, you just want to get picked and then everyone’s like, alright, well we’ll have, we’ll have Shiraz as the goalie. Yeah, yeah. Not even the goal. I was like defending behind the goalie like, you know, I mean like it wasn’t even actually getting to play and there was a couple of years of that and it was and it was. It’s hard. The funny thing is, is I think that can put you in two directions, can it? And I think that’s applicable to adults. You can either spiral away or you can say to yourself, Now I’ll prove my worth. I’m as good as everyone here. And that’s what it does for me. If I get challenged, even this happens in modern day, I get challenged. I think, right. What can I do to better myself, to not be challenged for that same situation again or be able to come out on top and any name call it? Loads, loads.

[00:03:52] Four letter word that begins with P. You’ve probably heard of it. Yeah. All of that. And hearing that as a kid and then going back home, I guess you and your brother and sister get in a bit of that. I know as an adult you can sit there and say, Oh, well, you know, if that happens to me, I rise to the challenge and all the rest of it. Is how you felt as a kid? It’s quite it’s really demeaning. The thing is, is that sometimes you have to put ourselves back to being children because now we’ve got children and you don’t want them to feel these things. But at the time, you just sit there, think, what’s wrong with me? You know, you really delve inside, but what have I even done? And I think the real fruit of that is going through that journey to realise that nothing’s wrong and you can be a great human being. But of course you go home at days, you know, and that’s another day. And obviously because I wasn’t from a necessarily wealthy background, I wasn’t in with the cool kids because I had like cool stuff. It wasn’t even that either. It was just, Oh yeah. So it’s charades. Yeah. So then, then moving on from there, growing up, being exposed to all of that, what type of a student were you? What sort of grades were you getting and what was the overlying message from from your parents in terms of academic and what you should be doing? Was was was there a posture of strive to do to do better academically? And and that was for a better life? Was it anchored to that? What was the message then? I mean, I think there’s a lot of parts to that question.

[00:05:26] So to start with, I was never a bright individual. I wasn’t someone who would naturally perform well in exams. It did go through fluctuations. So I was a very average performer. I always wanted to play and it wasn’t play sport, it was always sport. And God bless my grandfather who died in 97. He used to say to my mum when I was like ten years old, Listen, he needs to stop playing all the time. He needs to do some work. All he wants to do is be outside and play all the time. And it was cricket, football, basketball, any sport I was up for. But invariably going to the next part of the. Question. There was a push from my parents to achieve. And the reason for that was very, very clear. They just wanted better for me. Now, the funny thing is, at the time you think people are on your case, don’t you? As a kid, you don’t think, oh, the flower that is going to blossom in the next ten years time or 20 years time, you’re like, Could you just let me go and play cricket, please? And I think not that I can give parenting advice to anyone, but I think one of the key messages is actually how frustrating it may be.

[00:06:34] Having saying the same message again and again is that message that gets repeated and repeated and repeated that will lead to great things for them in the future. And sometimes as children, maybe we think we know, but there’s a reason we have grey hairs and that experience will pay dividends for the future. And so moving forward, GCSEs, A-levels and all of that, were you hitting top grades started to ramp up then? Because frankly, I was quite tired of being told off. Like, you know, since year four, I was being told off that don’t say stop right now. I need to put my mind to it. I did. I got A’s and B’s in GCSE, so I picked myself up. I think I had the ability to know how to work hard. I just wasn’t necessarily intelligent or whatever the definition of that is. So then I put a draft in, did my thesis, A-levels, got the grades I needed to as a B and two C’s. So I did five, so I did extra. So I got all the grades that I needed to get into university. But my parents want me to do medicine, and I kind of didn’t feel like I want to do medicine, frankly.

[00:07:43] But you’re a 16 year old kid in your parents or 15 year olds personally. That’s what you’re going to do. You don’t really have the the backbone to say no at that time, do you, really? So I went ahead, applied for medicine, didn’t get in, had the grades, have anything on paper. I played sport at a level that was required. I’d done lots of things but didn’t get in, and it was really, really confusing. Did you did you get interviewed for medicine? Who went through that whole process? I got to the interviews and it’s really funny because, you know, my whole life people have told me that I interview well as an example. But it’s just like, you know, I understand when I don’t interview well and it’s when I’m completely passionless about the subject because you can’t show passion when it doesn’t exist. It’s like you can see through it. It’s like a glass glass block, isn’t it? So I’d gone to these interviews and you tell us why you wouldn’t do medicine, so seems like a good thing to do. Mum and Dad said it was a good idea. Yeah, I may as well have said that, frankly speaking. Yeah. Because it was just so unmotivated. And then what happens is you then question your own ability because getting it, getting a rejection actually is quite deflating. And when you get it multiple times, you’re like, Oh man, I’ve got everything they need.

[00:08:55] Why I’m not getting it. It’s because the choice was not truly my choice. So what I then did was I did medical science is a happy medium medium for my family, so I did it. B.s. in medical sciences. Court. You did that for three years. It was like you could apply for medicine afterwards. Finished it. And I was like, right. I’ve seen a bit of the world. No. And when she’s my own life. So and I think I’ve mentioned this to you before, I did all the different experiences that were medical health care, because that’s what I kind of wanted to do. Optometry, physio, pharmacy, medicine, dentistry. And it was dentistry that really, really took me by storm. Tell me about that dentistry work experience, because that must have been influential, right? Yeah. I mean, it was it was everything. It was the fact that you established relationships over a long time. So one thing I couldn’t get over in medicine like I didn’t want to be a GP because all I mean this is are very important people and I’m not questioning that at all. But my experience shadowing was print go, print, go. And I thought, that’s not I want to be more involved clinic like I won’t use the hands. I love that stuff. The problem with hospital side is that you don’t necessarily look after people for a long period of time.

[00:10:10] You’ll do the OP, see them for a review, then they’re done. Dentistry, you’re seeing patients. You’ve see their kids. You’ve seen their kids. Kids. You build up these relationships over a long period of time. You’re doing very manually creative work and it’s like the dream. I was like, Oh my God. Like, why have I not even thought about this before? And so tell me about the working spirit. Who was it with the work experience? Fairfield’s dental surgery in Staines. Incidentally, not all that far from from a good friend of ours practice, Rothley Lodge, which isn’t that far away. Okay. And I’d finished my medical science degree and I said to myself, Right, I’m going to I want to get a job, but I’m not going to get a job with GSK, which I had on the cards, because I don’t know how to say this without sounding inappropriate, but I don’t want to earn real money and get a taste for that and then have to leave that and then go back to eating beans on toast again. I’d rather just graft in the field that I’m going to try and achieve and just stay on beans on toast until you’re ready. Yeah. And the whole year was beans on toast. But actually I was quite lucky. I stayed with my mum and dad. Yeah, I had some cheese and eggs, mate. You know, when you’ve got eggs, cheese, beans all mate, that is gourmet cheese on toast.

[00:11:30] But I went into this practice, did some experience, and I was like, Listen, I’d love to work. Like, I’d love to work here in any capacity. So I started as a dental receptionist. How interested? I started as a dental receptionist, and this was prior. So it was 2007. So in 2008 they introduced GDC registration for nurses. So up until I’d finished. I worked as a nurse. What is it? So now I’m being exposed to all of the clinical stuff. And you know what, Prav? I was thinking about this the other day. That that’s exactly what I’m like. Like, if I want to do something, I throw myself so that I’m totally immersed within that subject so that I can become the best at it. That is in my ability. So then I was working in a dental practice five days a week as a nurse, as a nurse receptionist for nine months before I went to dental school. Had you already got your place at dental school when you were working in there? So. After three months, I had my first interview while I was working there and I got an offer letter within four days. And why was that unconditional? When I say unconditional, I already had all of what they needed. So you were in. But I was you know, I had asked the question that the interview was like, oh, you know, and he was like, you know, usually it takes about two months to find out whatever allowed.

[00:12:50] You got four days. And I remember the day, you know, that comes in, it’s like you got a letter. And obviously in those days you don’t get letters, do you? Really? It’s only if you work, you apply for university and that opens it. And I open it and I’m like, that opens it? No, no. I was like, Give me now. I’d let him open it, to be fair. And I remember opening it and I said, Dad. And he said, Oh, no. So I got in and like the elation, he jumped. He hugged me and I was like almost in tears. I was thinking about it brings it back, you know, because having gone through medical interviews and not being successful, you believe that you’re not good enough. But later on in life, it teaches you that not achieving something will make you push you to become stronger and be better, to be able to qualify and get those things or make that achievement whatever it was. And that’s an episode that’s repeated itself in your life a couple of times, doesn’t it? I’d like to think so. But I mean, you know me, I don’t like looking back at what I’ve done, but yeah, I suppose it has. Just before we go further into your dental career, when did the dancing start and was that something that was a part of your youth and then you brought it back into what you’re doing today? It’s really about that.

[00:14:01] And that was something you and your brother do. Yeah, me. Me and my brother did both of us. But no, it was nothing like Parvati left me really openly. I had, you know, I was that guy that if there was ever a dinner and dance type thing over that. No one’s looking. No one’s looking. No one’s looking. 27. I went to university for dentistry. I saw some guys dancing in a local town. I was like. That’s amazing. How did you do that? Like what? Where’d you learn to do that? Right. So I found out through some local people as class going on and I just typical Shiraz now that I’m saying it it makes sense. Beg pardon? Typical me is that I’m just going to go I’m just going to a class like well, I’m going to pretend to learn it on some YouTube tutorial and we’ll go to a class. And I do this all the time, like you said, repeats itself again. I throw myself in as deep as I can go and I want this class and you know, you’ve got a dental student and you’ve got all these quite hip hop, quite sort of people that look quite intimidating. And they’re like, Who’s this guy that’s come over here? So. And it’s simply based on. You go and get that on the footage. Look at this guy.

[00:15:23] He’s trying to look young. Come here. Let’s go. Look at this. Look at this guy. I’m having a positive response. Look at this. This guy up here. I knew he was standing there. I was like, I’ve got to cut this one short because he’s going to do some funky Newsome’s. Yeah, so we will. So. So the dancing took me by storm. That’s what I was asked. Yeah. And did you go with your brother at that time? I went to a class. And typically, as you do. Do you have brothers? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, when you’ve done something new, the first thing you do is you go home and you’re like, Look what I can do. Like, my dad was mortified and I thought, This is like, what is that rubbish you’re doing? Where did you learn this? I told you we shouldn’t send them to Birmingham. So the first thing that came my brother and he was like, Oh my God. And then obviously. Is your brother younger? Yeah. Right. So the younger brother always comes out like a 2.0, don’t they? Like you were the test dummy. And then you get this really slick looking younger, much more handsome, much more, much more. But all of that lighter skin, like wherever he picks up everything, like in 5 seconds. So it’s taken me three months to do this one move. He’s literally like 10 seconds in front of you, and a part of you is like, why did you get that so quick? Like, you know, and, and then, but then we were doing it together and I went went to Korea, taught English as a foreign language, went out there basically, so I could learn off the the pioneers of breaking in that country and stuff like that is amazing.

[00:16:58] Amazing. And has that been something that stayed with you over the years or something that you’ve dropped and come back to? It stayed with me throughout up until I would say about COVID, really. Covid obviously was a hope for everyone’s lives in every industry, but a big part of what I do, there’s two sort of ways you can do this, this dance side of things. It can be performing, arts based, theatrical, and we’ve done that. We’ve done theatre shows at Sadler’s Wells and stuff like that, or it can be competitive based and it was always competitive, so that really got me. And so how do you compete in the type of dancing that you do is I assume this judges score you on certain moves or the routine. Are you competing as part of a team, as an individual? How does that all work? Almost all of the above, actually. And what’s really funny, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but in 2024, breaking is going to be in the Olympics, right? Paris, 2024. Wow. There are going to be Olympians that will win medals.

[00:17:56] Right. So what’s really interesting is part of this process and I’m on various committees for breaking and advisory boards and stuff and we’ve been talking about how to make a clear system to be able to judge this stuff because you’re instantly accountable at this level. Now, you know, when it’s like a couple of mates and like, Yeah, I think you won. That’s all it was. Now it’s becoming much clearer and much more recognisable and recordable. In answer to the question about teams, I’ve got a team that we in fact were world champions. We won just four weeks ago. We won the world championships for breaking. I mean, I’d be very open about this. My role within the team was relatively nominal, right? But I was still there. We still did some stuff, we did routines and all of that. And some of the people that are in my team, I mean, they’re sponsored athletes by like NAC and stuff like that, like proper, you know, they’re amazing. In fact, they’re the best in the country. So I do team stuff. They do two and two with my brother as a partner, two and two with my crewmates. I do solos, so all genres actually. But I think if we make a parallel within dentistry, I think the best way to become a team player is to work on yourself to start with, right? And if you can understand what it is that rocks your world or makes you better or makes you perform better, if you explore that, you understand how you can work in a team environment better.

[00:19:19] So I think there’s a lot of parallels actually. Dentistry and I mean infinite amounts. Yeah, we could do a whole podcast on that, to be fair. And so just taking us back to your dentistry, so you done this work experience, is it fair fields to do special dental fairfield’s dental centre and then dental school in Birmingham? Tell us about dental school. What was it like? What sort of student were you? Well, student life like back then. So it was important to me to not go to university in London because I still want to have the experience of living out and becoming your own person and all those sorts of things. Again, it’s history repeating itself because I wasn’t a sparkling student in any way academically. I’d do very, very average. I’ve always passed, I’d always pass. But student life was really cool for me because I then started to get immersed into the Birmingham. Like town breaking seen, not just university, like being in university clubs. So I’d be going to competitions all around the country. And in fact, I’ll tell you one really interesting story, and I’ve got so much time for this lady. Her name is Deborah White. She was the head of school at the time. And my team, the team I was in at the time, had got selected to represent the UK in Slovakia in an international breaking competition.

[00:20:41] I had an oral surgery exam right on the day that was supposed to be travelling back and I just went to a really openly and I was like. Professor White. I don’t really know how to talk about this because it probably sounds so far fetched. My team is selected to represent the UK and is at the same time as sort of surgery exam. I want to say exam. It was like a test. Like a progress test. It wasn’t a final final. And she’s like, Well, you have to make sure you go then tell me right what I’m going to do. I’m going to go upstairs, call up all surgery elite. You can speak to him and we’ll get you a private sitting for the exam afterwards. So, like, like, just think about that for a minute. You’ll give him a pardon to reset an exam at a later date, which is an inconvenience for a lot of people. So I can go and pretend to spin on my head. I mean, that as a principle sounds pretty weird, right? Yeah, but just a sentiment to the institution that they were really about people flourishing as people as opposed to becoming robots to assist them. And the irony of that was that all surgery exam that everyone end up sitting, they got given the incorrect paper is the paper they had already done.

[00:21:56] So they cancelled that mark altogether. So didn’t even have to sit it in the end. Would you believe it? You believe it. What are the odds? But a real big shout out to the University of Birmingham, because I think that was in fourth year. And by that time they had realised, I’m a serious student, I’m not I’m not failing things. I work hard, but big shout out to them because a lot of people would say absolutely not. Yeah, yeah. And then so moving on, you qualify as a dentist. What was your first job? First job was in Gravesend Kent with a lovely gentleman call akin to Corrie. He was my first supervisor and it was a wake up call. You know, you there’s a subtle pride when you get that badge. It says Dr. Shiraz Khan or Dr. whatever. And you think, yeah, I get it now. And then you go out into the world and you get absolutely nothing. I mean, you got how to read a book, in essence, and maybe do a few procedures, but people very, very quickly work out that you’re very inexperienced and that they can probably make you do what they want they want you to do. It was in a relatively high needs area, so it’s just quite comprehensive that you should start with, which is good. But acting himself, I mean, he was he was he was a champion to me because he also had realised that I’ve got this underlying passion and drive and he just, he just you just pushed it.

[00:23:20] You just, you just kept pushing me. I’d never done a surgical extraction. Like, he was like, right, let’s do it. This one’s coming in, right? You’re going to come in? I’m going to hold your hand. We can do this. This is job done. You have done this, right? We’re going to do this. And I think the way you become in terms of the dentistry that you want to do that first year is quite critical, isn’t it? Because you can inspire the way that you work going forwards. And he was an oral surgeon by trade. Nothing to do with what I ever wanted to do, but actually just a very nice human being. And when you get that vibe of nice human beings, you just become a better person yourself. So yeah, shout out to Akin to Corrie. Dr. Akin to Corrie from eight to Corrie and Associates legend. And then so what tell me how your career moved on from from Athens practice to what what happened next? I know you worked with Nick and Martin. Yeah, yeah, quite some time. So you guys have got a lot of respect for. Yeah. In the industry and what they do. But just talk me through your journey and I’m going to come to them in a moment because I owe them a lot, actually.

[00:24:27] Nick and Martin. So after I finished that year, I did a job, so a DCT, it’s called our Dental Corps trainee, which was an oral surgery restorative, max FACS, ortho special care dentistry. So it’s a broad base of subjects went really really well I then you have to sit interviews for the next stage and on the day of the interview I was walking down the road, my trousers just ripped out of the blue, so I ran back, changed my whole suit. Everything that you’re planning to say went totally out the window, started raining on the way. They get there totally dishevelled, like not looking presentable in the slightest. And luckily I still came within the top 30 to get a job for the second year, but it was probably not the job I was hoping for. And in 2015 I decided to get married. So I thought living in dorms with my wife wasn’t a good shot. And we I decided to get a practice job. I worked in the area of Clapham. Now the interesting story about Nick Martin is that Martin, one of absolute gentleman, we were at private dentistry awards and he was looking rather dapper and everyone does as you’ve been to them a couple of times. And he comes up to me, he’s like, You’re sure? As you’re sure has called on you. Yeah. He’s like, Can I just say I love the way that you dress, that everyone’s wearing black tie, which means he’s like, no know.

[00:25:50] Senior about. I just want to say that. Have you ever read that book? What book is that? And apparently it’s a book where some really famous actors and very wealthy people had lots of Gucci and this and whatever. And what they did was they sent that all to Africa. There’s AIDS. So you’ve got these people that have got straw houses that have got the most amazing clothing, right? Like 4000 Gucci suits or whatever they called. There’s a specific name. I can’t I’m trying to remember the name because there is a name. Yeah. It’ll come back to us at some point, but there definitely is a name for and they, they the level of pride. Yeah. That they have in the way they dress and present themselves and they’re walking through. The slum streets literally head to toe looking immaculate. Right. And and their clothes are worth more than their house and their families put together, like it’s unreal. And we established a discussion about it, and that was great. And I was like, oh, he’s like, Oh, but you you work in Birmingham, don’t you? I was like, No, no, no, I live in London. You live in London? Where do you work? I was like, clap, clap, clap. We need to have a chat, son. All right, then. That led to an interview where I met Nic as well, and they offered me a job.

[00:27:06] The rest is history. And the thing about them is that I really owe them a lot because they converted me to be a dentist from just running a system or running in a system to planning cases, aesthetic, restorative, all these different aspects. So I owe them a lot. They really converted me to a what if you can call it private practitioner. And so your career there, how long were you there? Quite long. Quite a long time mentor you during that process? Clinically, yes. Soft skills, all that sort of stuff. Just talk us through that. What was it like working at ten Dental for Nic and Martin? Ten Dental is a fantastic organisation, a brand that they’ve done exceptionally well to establish himself in an area where there’s actually quite a high amount of competition. They spent a lot of time mentoring me, whether it’s understanding orthodontic aspects of treatment, there’s restorative aspects. They’re the people who ask me to start restoring implants. So they mentored me through that whole process, but they’re all around just really good people and they just want to see people succeed. And the reason I really love that practice and I always would hold it highly in my heart, in my regards, is that they really invest in everyone that goes through that surgery, everyone. And they understand that, you know, if you’re attracting an aspirational individual, maybe they’re going to want to go on and do their own thing in the future.

[00:28:30] And they certainly don’t hold people against that. You know, you know how there’s leaders that want you to stay in your lane. They’re not like that in the slightest. They want you to blossom. And, you know, when I see Nick and Martin at conferences and Congress, we were barred this year. We are we were having jokes like I was there at this clinic still. It was amazing, fantastic human beings. So moving on from there, what happened next? So I finished at ten Dental and I was working at other clinics in between whilst because that was only a couple of days a week, I had gone for an interview to work with Koori and at some stage because I felt that I had got the understanding of that level that I that I wanted to achieve. And in essence I entered a master’s program, so I entered a master’s in restorative dentistry and I wanted to be in a place where that might be more applicable day to day. And maybe it was at ten, maybe it was, maybe I didn’t see it. And I phoned the same time, roughly put up a job advert, website advert where. Yeah, well actually it was like every dissemination you can ever imagine, but I saw it on Facebook. So you put a job advert on Facebook. 5000 word job summary. What was he looking for? Everything that I wasn’t.

[00:29:47] Incidentally, he wanted more than five years experience. He wanted at least one teaching master’s degree. He wanted copious implant experience. He wanted I mean, the list of of key skills required was far beyond whatever I could do. Very specific about what you wanted. And I was absolutely not the bill. So I threw my CV in anyway. But again, see, the theme just chucked myself in, see what happens. And I was like, I’m not gonna get anything but whatever. Then I get a call for an interview and I’m like, Oh, all right, go along. The first stage, getting on like a house on fire, huh? What are the odds of this? Get called a second stage? Three people left, two jobs. Odds are in your favour. You get inside. At this point changed me. I mean, you believe that you weren’t going to get the job and now you’re plotting your route to work, you know, I mean, even though you haven’t got the job, you’re like totally in. And I didn’t get the job. Craig gives me a call rather than sending an email. It’s like, you’re a fantastic young man. You’ve got a great future ahead, but I’m not giving you the job yet. And then two years later, we can have a chat. Yeah. What’s going on? I’d love for you to come with me. What would you mean? So he rejected. You rejected me, and he said, you know. You know, I’ve said this to you before.

[00:31:03] When people sometimes deliver bad news, they like to put a nice sugar coating on the top of the bottom so you don’t feel so bad. And I thought I was doing this because I didn’t know right at this point. Shit. Sandwich. That’s exactly what it’s called. Yeah, yeah. See what I mean? So we’ll leave it to bring out the good stuff. But I was like, he’s probably just being nice. He’s probably just being really nice because he doesn’t want to doubt it. He’s a good human being. But we slowly realise is that some people, whether you met them. For a long time or a short amount of time. They just they don’t need to feed you the rubbish. They’re just telling you how it is. And then all of a sudden, two years later, he’s obviously been following what I’ve been doing, lecturing with, with me myself. Him and Asif Tatou. Yeah, we. He invited me to go and open a farce together. So it was Ramadan going over the fast together. And then we did this like biannually meet up and lunch dinner. So we still keep in touch, but, and I’ll make myself very clear on this, I wasn’t trying to force myself into his world. He instigated for us all to be well, go it, go him. But I want to just dig deeper into that rejection. Yeah. What? You know, we said I’m not going to hire you yet.

[00:32:21] What did that mean to you? And did he give you some criteria? Did he say to you, I’m not going to hire you yet, but if I do, how you in the future? No, this is what did that mean at that point? Did it give you hope? No, it genuine. The typical response for me is he’s just saying it to be nice. There was no hope. I mean, I didn’t I didn’t suspect that one day I would get there. I didn’t think not and not in any way to be discrediting to him. I just thought I’m you know, I’m from a vein of life where, you know, you sort of believe that good things don’t happen to you. Like we never get, like, lucky or whatever that means. Right? So I was just like, Oh, he’s just saying it to be nice. Oh, what a shame. I was heartbroken about it. The thought process about it, you kind of wanted it to happen, didn’t work out. Maybe they’d just be nice. So there was no there was no belief that it was going to happen. But what it did instil in me is how important that felt. So it made me think being going to the clinic, seeing how beautiful it was, seeing the waiting room, seeing the sorts of cases they’re doing, that it made me understand that that is something at that point. So that’s 2017, 2017.

[00:33:36] At that point I realised that’s something that yes, I do possibly want to achieve that in my lifetime. And then it came about as it did. It just came as we rang you randomly, but you’d been connecting socially. We had been connected. Yeah. It wasn’t like a out of the blue situation. Yeah. And I think he had certain people leaving the practice to start their own clinic. He had other people that he may have employed that didn’t work out with. So availability came up. That was a steep curve going from where I was to go into the that was I mean, COVID as much as it was the worst thing that’s ever happened in the world. There’s many beautiful things about it too. Silver linings and that break that for three months kept me going. It kept me going because, you know, you entered at 20th January 2020. You think you kind of know it and then you’re like 5000 processes extra and you’re like, Well, what was the shift in going from working where you were to working for Cory? Yeah, what changed? One thing that was really lovely was the way that his consultation process existed was still very, very much aligned to his what I trained to do, the things that changed is were genuinely the process is now. The great thing for for my career is that I was already very on top of clinical photography and that’s quite a big part of that clinic.

[00:34:54] So that was a bit that I was already ready with. Yeah, I already had that. It was just things like occlusion that I probably didn’t have the understanding to the amount that I should have. It was things like implants. I didn’t have the amount of understanding it should have. It was the level of documentation. Trial is the level of letter writing that we have to send to our patients that I was not doing anywhere near as much. And slowly but surely that starts adding up quite significantly to hours, days, weeks, months of being behind. So when you go from not doing that stuff to then start doing it, I had three months and then all of a sudden I really had time to get my feet under and understand how to do the processes. But it was it was challenging. There’s no there’s no denying it. But I don’t know if this is, again, a personality type thing. But if there’s a challenge set in front of me, I want to be able to overcome that. I think that’s just who I am as a person. If I’m not good at something, I want to become better at it. I understand you can’t do everything. I’m not I’m not trying to pretend to be that. But if there is a situation that requires me to perform and I don’t perform, I look at why. I look at what I can do to get better and then push myself to be better.

[00:36:13] So at what point you mentioned you got married. What was it about 2015, 2015, 2015? Unfortunately for my wife, she’s wonderful. Testing has been a huge support, by the way. So tell us tell us about your wife and then and then one kid to the kids. To the kids and your children. And you often sort of post on social media about what a rock you’re what your wife is and by side. And, you know, we all know the old saying behind every successful man and all of that. Right. Tell us a little bit about her. Tell us about your kids and what fatherhood is like. Okay. So so first things first. My wife is a very beautiful young lady who stumbled across my life in a way that you wouldn’t even expect. And we hit it off from the from the first day we met. What do you mean? It’s a funny story, Prav. Okay, so in my younger days, I used to do fashion modelling. Hard to believe. I know. Without the beard. Right. Without the beard. Yeah. And I’ll tell you a funny story. When I started growing the beard, the amount of booking requests quadruples that. You wouldn’t expect it, right? You’d be like, Oh, no, he looks a bit rough. It went up because he started becoming a trending thing. But we were doing the Asian Wedding Exhibition Show.

[00:37:38] Who’s we? Me testing. And there were like ten other models there. Right. So Tassie was another she’s another model there. Did you meet her there? And I’ll tell you a funny story. So we I walked in with another bloke who was quite well known within the scene and he obviously knew testing there on a high. And he went and said hello to her and I was like flipping eggs. She is absolutely beautiful. I’m not going to let her know that in the slightest. And she was. I just ask you. Hi. Sure. As lovely to meet you. Walk off. I’m not even going to give the time of day, not even cool as anything. But obviously I was like, she’s not even trying to pretend that she was absolutely the most beautiful person I’ve ever seen. And we’re doing rehearsals. I didn’t plans or whatever. We have a few exchanges, but I’m quite I thought maybe this is also a personality trait thing. If someone gets loads of love in like a and this is not a social media related at all, this is physical. Yeah, I’m not going to go and feed that. I’ll speak or converse or exchange in my own terms. Create a mean keep it key kind of. Well, it’s not intended to be that way because frankly, I didn’t think I had a chance, mate. I mean, if you saw the blokes that that show, I was definitely the lower of the pecking order.

[00:38:56] There were some pretty sharp looking people there. And then we all went to Nando’s together. We all ate and she sat across from me and then a vibe side. Like it was just we were catching so much jokes. Another really pretty girl who actually is she’s a presenter for an Indian sports channel. She’s like millions, millions of followers of whatever she’d like. Really famous. Now, she had accidentally not known that they were her fries, whatever. Me and her, we’re both just eating her food, not knowing. And they’re, like, away for us. I think you just take them. Oh, so sorry. We just. Just totally lost about the world, and we exchanged. At the time, it was Facebook obviously was a big thing. Then obviously like Instagram, exchange, Facebook, keep talking, talking, talking. And the rest is history. Your relationship with your wife started over a cheeky Nando’s, cheeky Nando’s mate, and it wasn’t even a cheeky Nando’s, just the two of us. I mean, there was like three people on this long table. Yeah, yeah. Serendipity put you in front of each other completely, completely, completely. I was like, Oh, I’m going to sit across from not even. Not even so. Yeah. And, and, you know, I think talking about it because obviously we got married in 2015. 2022 now. So we’ve been through some great times, been through some tough times. But one thing I’ll say about that lady is that sometimes when you’re a driven individual and I’d mentioned this recently on something else that was on that you make a decision to do something and you’ve got to work hard for it, right? So I decided to do a masters.

[00:40:35] I have to do that work. It’s me I’ve got. I’m going to fund it. I’m going to pay for it. I’m going to do all of that work. It’s not just you. You’re impacting your other half’s life at the same time. And I think perhaps in my earlier days of being married, I probably didn’t really realise that properly. Every decision I make has generic repercussions, not just on me. I always used to take it on me and she has been so fantastically understanding in all of the aspirations, you know, applying for awards. I mean, that’s like days and days of work, writing a dissertation that was. So black going up to Boeing and doing lecturing, going abroad to do lecturing, being invited to do all these things, in essence, breaking it takes time away from us. And she’s been such a fantastic support to that because if and you know, you’re right, it is kind of just candid commentary nowadays that I’ll find every good man. There’s a really amazing woman. But actually, if she started pulling me and saying, Why are you not spending time with me? Maybe some of these shootings wouldn’t have happened. Maybe I wouldn’t. Maybe the relationship might break.

[00:41:42] A number of things can happen. So she’s been aggressive. She tells me she must do right. I think. I hope she does. I hope she doesn’t. Listen, I know him from my relationship, right? That you know, the only thing that my wife wants more of is my time. Yeah. Yeah, the one currency. And. And I’m sure that your wife would want more review. Right. Or is expressed that to you has definitely but now when she talks about which is kids yeah so now and strangely you now start having the guilt that may maybe should have existed before. Right. But now it’s no, I need to go and see. I need to make sure that I’m home before they sleep or you kids called. So I’ve got a girl who’s now going to be three next month. Her name’s Iya Iya. And I’ve got a boy who’s ten weeks, 11 weeks old now. His name’s Xavier Avila. Xavier Xavier said av y. So can you take yourself back to the day that I was born? Yeah, man. It has gone up on your arm and you’re thinking about it was just. You know, like. You start to think that the amount of children that are born per hour and every one that comes out is nothing short of a miracle that organs move out the way, like bodily changes, like it’s just like bizarre how that happens. And by and large, most of them are healthy.

[00:43:18] I mean, it’s just yeah, man. I mean, pictures on that day and obviously it was a girl as well. So there’s an extra soft spot. I mean, I love my son to bits. There’s a lot of a lot of love for him because he’s just something amazing. But daddy’s girl, mummy’s boy, that exists for a reason, right? Of course. Of course. And are you one of those guys? The moment she came out, you were just besotted and totally in love. Yeah. I mean, weirdly, I was in love before. Like we do these city things. Like, if you can hear your daddy make, just do a little kick and you hear it and like things like that, you know, like you’d already become really attached. But yeah, of course, when you see it hold when you hold it, it’s it’s amazing. And, you know, we should never take for granted that a lot of people may or may not be able to have children. And it’s such a blessing. It’s a blessing. What changed for you when you became a dad then? How did you or life change? I think the things that I would ordinarily commit myself to. I had to start thinking twice about stuff like that. I think my empathetic nature really, really grew because ordinarily I’m quite talking about let’s just get this done. But all of a sudden I’m a bit more. How do you feel about this? I started really trying to understand those things and invariably the respect for my for my misses.

[00:44:48] I mean, it just goes up astronomically, doesn’t it? The fact that you can grow a human being, you can carry a human being. I mean, it’s just insane. Men could never handle that, right? Wherever anyone says, no man could ever handle that. So for me, just my whole outlook on life and priorities changed, right? So for me. I’m sure it’s different for everyone. Right? But prior to that, I was I was certainly a lot more selfish. And then they give you purpose. Yeah. You know, whatever. Whatever that is. Right. Whether it’s those little micro challenges of, you know, they’ve just read the first word or two steps, all these little things. And what I find hilarious, right, is she just spoke a word. Oh, my God. Do you remember the simplest? Human communication tools, things. Right. And you and your wife are blown away by that, right. And then you think it’s it’s your right to then announce it to the world that my kid just spoke. Right? Like no kid’s ever spoken history. Right. And those are special times, I think, for any parent. And there’s no there’s no there’s no other times like it. No, like, you know, your first big achievement through work or your first sporting great opportunity. Nothing. Nothing touches those moments. Nothing. Yeah. And what are they both like in terms of personality? Is one more like mom, one more like dad? Just it’s quite vocal.

[00:46:23] Certainly has dual personality types. So she has a very methodical type thing, which is 100% my wife. Like, what was it we’re trying to clear, not doubt, trying to help out clearer stuff away and I’m just chucking it in the different box. No, no, no, no. And puts that one into that box because it goes in there and she’s not even three she’s not learned that that’s ingrained from some genetic code right. When she’s sleeping is like, you know, proper start. That’s totally me, like throwing shapes in the night, you know? Like, there are definitely traits of us both. She’s. She’s special. Really special. Any son? Xavier. Xavier? Yeah. Xavier. He is. He’s a wonder child. So 14 weeks taslim was rushed to hospital because there may have been a breach. And we it was. It was. It was my brother’s wedding. But they got married at the registry office. Something changed. We got rushed to Annie, and we got told he wasn’t going to survive. So I cancel work for the week, we’re being told. On the procedure. And they come in to have the chat to say, well, look, if this is the case, we may need to instigate the the loss of of your kid. And we didn’t even look at each other. It’s like. No, not really. And of course, it was completely emotionally filled at the time.

[00:48:06] But it’s that no, let nature take its course. It’s like, yeah, you do understand it’s harder the older they are to lose and all of that. And with iron. So with I, we kept her, we kept gender neutral. We didn’t know what it was until she was born. You just kept it a secret. We didn’t even want to know. You didn’t want to know because we were just grateful for whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously that drove our families insane. Yeah. Particularly Asian families, because they’re OCD about wanting to get the colours and the themes and the schemes. And Aunty coming up, she’s like, I know what you’re doing. It’s very, very nice, but it’s a huge inconvenience to me that we don’t know the gender. And it wasn’t so, so eloquently said either. Hey, tell me what it is. I don’t know. Yeah. So we didn’t do a reveal or any of that? None of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then at the time, 14 weeks, they were like, he isn’t going to survive. So that’s when you found out? That’s how we found out. That’s how we found out. And I was really upset because even want to keep it secret but also surprise or. Yeah, well, we always wanted we always wanted to keep surprises. If we did it for the first, that was the way we were going always. Yeah, but the point was you weren’t mad, isn’t it? You weren’t attached.

[00:49:25] You had Archie, and now you’re attached. It’s a really difficult thing. And I’ll tell you about it, because I spoke to a mindfulness coach and who’s a patient and the because I don’t share my personal circumstances with with patients or whatever. But she had to get cancer and she’s really lovely lady. And we were getting to the end of a big treatment and she had to get cancelled. So I sat down to explain to her why and it turned out that she’s a mindfulness coach. And I said, Oh, you know what? And they told it, this is him. And we have no idea, because at the time I came back to work, we had no time. We had no idea about how long it was going to any day we could then rush to hospital. So I said, Yeah, and they told it it was him. And you know something I don’t want to know because don’t wanna get attached. And she’s like, That’s exactly what you need to know, because now you’re not fighting for it, now you’re fighting for him. And it was so powerful and so like motivating. Like, I was like, Yeah, yeah, we are fighting for him. And you know, again, I’ll repeat the credit to my wife. She was jabbed two times a week to check that she wasn’t getting infections or anything. She’s having to go in to get tests done, scans done three times a week.

[00:50:48] It was impossible for her to work. She was at the hospital back and forth every two, three days for six months. It’s a long time and 25th of April. Outcomes my son. So then how does how does work life balance fit into this whole, whole mixture? You’ve got two children who you obviously absolutely adore. Yeah. Your wife. You’re raising your teaching. You’re learning your dentist doing dancing. Dancing. Yeah. All of that family thing. All of it, yes. Well, what does work life balance like? Give me a typical week in the life of Shiraz, not blow by blow, but like what would your typical week look like in terms of work, teach to being taught? And then so up until recently, I stopped working Saturdays because I think that was really important for me. But in essence, I’m clinically committed Monday to Monday to Thursday practice, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Corey’s Chelsea on Tuesdays. I must admit the difficulties with those days. I don’t often finish before seven, which is very challenging. So what should what’s your clinical day like? So from what time? So I’ll be in probably 8:00. First patient. First patient is usually nine an hour before. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I want to be in the right mindset, mind frame, everything so we know what we’re doing if there’s no love. I just want to be in the zone and physical fitness is quite important as well.

[00:52:31] Before we go into physical fitness, you get an eight, you start work at nine. And what happens in that hour, if you’ve got a huddle, do you check your day list? So incidentally, I’ve tried to include a huddle because of course practice isn’t the huddle, but usually there are treatment plans, photos, daily lab work. I mean, the amount of stuff that goes on and on and on that we have to do, it just continues. There isn’t a huddle. As such. But I’ve actually made the recommendation that we do that in the morning to get team spirit up. I think I think this is really important for practice. I touched on physical fitness, so obviously it’s not time for the gym usually. So whether I leave at 645 to get to work or seven. Yeah. Or I leave at 615. It makes no bones about me seeing anyone at home makes sense. Everyone’s in bed anyway. It was in bed anyway. So I get myself up earlier so that I can get a gym session and usually before work at the gym, at home, at the gym, which is 3 minutes away from work. So I’ve signed up at the gym, which is in Marylebone Monday to Thursday, Fridays, often teaching Friday, sometimes Saturday. So Monday to Thursday you’re in work. You work of 7 p.m. gym in the morning before that if I can if you at least three times a week.

[00:53:52] Yeah. And so at seven you finish work at home. At home and then we’ll sit down for an evening meal. What’s your routine from seven onwards? It is so ad hoc Prav because it completely depends on children. Tassie may have had to catch herself eating while she was sorting one out and then sorting the other. Often she hasn’t eaten by the time I get home. I try to get home just before it’s Aya’s bedtime, which is 745 8:00. So you look at, what, 35, 40, 50 minute commute. Usually at that time on the way back, it’s quite, quite 40 minutes, I’d say. And incidentally, if I leave at six, it’ll take me an hour and 40 minutes. So get home. Same the same time. Yeah. 10 minutes apart roughly. So yeah, I’ll leave then and get home and try and at least try and get home to put my daughter to sleep. That’s non-negotiable. I’ve established a few non-negotiables, so just toy with this idea because when I was or when I’m working away and if I get home just before the little ones are due to go down. Right. I get a bit of grief. Because my kid hasn’t seen me all day. It’s a wind down time and they’re not absolutely dilated anything. Right. Do you get that as well? Sometimes. Sometimes, sometimes. And then you get the. Oh, yeah, you know, just leave him to it. Now you saw it.

[00:55:24] But I’m cool with that. Like I’m very in the sense I’m very hands on dad. I’m not like, Oh, I don’t do nappies. None of that rubbish. That’s my kids. I’m doing everything. I’m not letting anything I can bastard do whatever Mr. Best time. It’s the time that soul heals, isn’t it? You’re with your kids and then usually I try and keep a so I’m not always teaching every Friday and Saturday obviously. So that’s usually as a family time. I go to congregational prayers which are on a Friday, and then we’ll either try and plant it with the family, or if there are other activities which you’ve mentioned, it’s your home. You put it to bed. Yeah, no more. Then often it’s a scramble to either sort out what’s food or if my wife’s been able to prepare. And when I sit down, obviously my son’s very young. So usually just as soon as one is put to bed that are we never manage in that one getting him so it it’s that’s what I meant by so fluid at the moment but the aspiration is we have a meal I mean me and my wife having a meal face to face is quite an important thing to me and to her obviously. But I’m not always guaranteed. It’s not. It’s not. And sometimes it’s because of me, sometimes because of the situation. Family are both always. Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard the term passing ships.

[00:56:55] It’s a bit frustrating because. Yeah. Cards, anything. Shiraz. Shiraz, Shiraz. Wow. Okay, we. Right then see loads of people. This generation won’t even get what that was. It’s totally lost in a generation. Right. But yeah, it’s interesting what you’re saying there because, you know, we’ve had that at home where especially when the kids were younger. Right. Is that you don’t get any husband wife time. Right. And it’s for a couple of years. Right. You’re 12, ten, 12 weeks. Did you say 12 weeks, 11 weeks, ten, 12 weeks. Yeah. You got you got a good couple of years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, I find it so important to if you can, if you’ve got the support network around you to get that time where it’s just the two of you. Yeah. And remember why you fell in love. Yeah. You know, sometimes you forget and and we’re lucky that actually my parents are 10 minutes away. 20 minutes away. Her parents are in Birmingham, which is far. But in fairness to them, I mean, huge crowds of them are there. They’re down as often as that can be. You know, 120 miles isn’t anything as far as it goes to. But obviously when your grandparents like that’s that’s a drop of drop a hat 120 miles. Not much stress, is it? They’ll do anything. And they’re great with my kids as well. Both parents, both both sets of parents are just absolutely wonderful, my kids.

[00:58:20] But yeah, I think one thing that we’ve reflected on constructively over the Christmas and beginning first quarter of this year is we need to have more of that time. Yeah. And date night exists for a reason. Like, sure, it’s a thing. Yeah, absolutely. And just moving on to other topics. Yeah, yeah. You dress up. It’s obviously questionable on the best of days, whatever that is. And it’s it’s out there. It’s striking, you know, whether it’s the suits that you wear, the colour of the socks, whatever it is. But you obviously take a lot of pride in the way you present yourself. Is that something that’s been with you from a young age or is it something that you just sort of thought, you know what, I’m going to give this a go now. Like it gave my dad industry a go and like I tried to apply for medicine. Or do you know what I mean? Like all these different things, do you think, right, I’m going to get deep into fashion now. Like I’m going to get deep into breaking and and where did that start? So God bless my grandfather who died in 1997. He’s my dad’s dad. He would like wear a three piece suit to the park, you know, a three piece suit to Tesco or like he’s just immaculate. And it didn’t really at that point. It makes no difference to you, is that right? Yes.

[00:59:45] And then I started my first job was at Debenhams on a weekend. So sales system, whatever you call it. And so I was in the shop there and then I’d done that whilst I was at A-levels and then when I went to Birmingham, I need to keep up some form of work and then it from Debenhams. I went to USC. Yeah. Do you guys see? It’s sort of. I mean, it’s basically a failing organisation really, in my opinion. But it was a big thing then, wasn’t it? Like if you got some money, you’d go to USC and get some stars or whatever it was, right? So I got a job there. Then I went from there to House of Fraser. Then I worked at Ted Baker. Then I went to Selfridges throughout my university time when I when I was at Ted Baker, I got inducted and formalised for the measuring and adjustments for customising people’s suits. So I was the formal specialist, specialist, whatever, whatever you call it. And what was really interesting is I started then my whole creativity duties start flowing because I’m in a work, an educational process that’s really scientific. There’s not really any space for creativity. Frankly speaking, you need to learn and apply end of. So then I get the chance to put myself out there and start putting things together and I start putting bits of shoes together and clutch and yeah, yeah, all of it, like.

[01:01:12] And I was like, Oh, this is really cool. And very quickly, I started getting identified as being that weirdly weird guy puts dress together in a weird way, but for some reason it works for some reason. So, I mean, one of the best things about Ted Baker is that if you’re formal specialist, you get one suit at 90% off the season. So if you work there for five years, there’s two seasons a year, ten suits at 90% off. So I had a fantastic wardrobe of stuff that was ready to go and qualifying dentistry obviously started going to conferences and I was like, Oh, I’ve got some, I’ve got some pretty I’ve got some bangers in that closet. Let’s go. I must stop not using them excuse to get dressed up and excuse. Well actually everyone that goes, some of the people that I would go with would go quite formally anyway. A lot of people go casual and that’s cool, but I love the formal thing. And then it just became just started rubbing off more and more. And the funny thing was, was that I didn’t do it. And this is a really common misconception. I think people think you do it to get attention. It’s exactly the opposite. I do it because I don’t care about the attention. Quite frankly, if people like it, they loathe it. That’s entirely up to them. I’m cool. Yeah, I’m cool.

[01:02:30] And because we’re in a relatively conservative field, it happens to stand out. You know, I’ve had people say to me, Oh, what you done there was really clever. That’s not what. Yellow socks. That’s clever. That’s really smart, is it? You know, anyway, so it’s not something that I aspired for, it’s something else surrounded by. So the outfits that you put together. Are they are they outfits that you can just walk into a shop and get off the shelf? Or have you just put have you just got some combos and said, do you know what? That jacket with those trousers and that shirt and them shoes. That’s my stamp on what I bought in the shop. You see these? You’ve probably seen it on Instagram. Yeah. You buy these five shoe suits, you buy a pink shirt, blue shirt, blah, blah, and you’ve got 75 suits. Right. And you’ve seen that. Right. Is that you’re obviously not that combo, but do you sort of mix and match like the trousers from one to with a jacket from another? Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. I mean, it depends on. It’s funny, I was talking about this with an actor and I think I’m quite well write about you create your own formal style weirdly because certain certain requirements there are I need to wear the same combo because it’s quite a formal occasion. So I’ll jazz up with a particularly different pocket square and tie in different coloured socks or whatever.

[01:03:56] But if it’s like smart, casual, then actually I’ll start doing a bit more mix and match something I got into recently. Well, not recently. It’s about five years ago, really. So I think I got into his double breasted waistcoats and I love the way they look, except for the fact that every time you go out, people are asking you for their reservation or dinner requests for dinner. And I’m like, No, I’m not the waiter. But yeah, if I find a particular piece, it doesn’t have to match anything I’ve got because I know I’ll be able to make it work with something. So but I do have very, very formal like pinstripe suit and beige suit and grey suit and. But usually there’s a little twist. Yeah. And moving on to teaching. Yeah. How did you get into that? Do you remember the first time you taught, got up and spoke? Yeah. How did that feel? Felt really easy. Weirdly, the first one was really straightforward. I can remember it like it was yesterday. I had finished my foundation. Training Should Be a chef who’s the training programme director for cancer. Ssx had asked me to come back to speak to the delegates from the year the following year. What was my PhD like? And I did a very, very simple, straightforward PowerPoint times. New Roman. Yeah, very simple. And everyone had a great time and it was very much when I, when I present, it’s very much of this style.

[01:05:29] I’m trying to keep it relatively conversational. It’s got it’s packed with information. There’s formal aspects to it, but it’s not meant to be a formal proceeding. I want it to be relatively jovial. I want it to be conversational, and I want people to be engaged. That was the key should be I thought it was great. And he said, You’ve got really natural affinity for it. Let’s get you back to the whole scheme. So went from 15 to 100 people or 90, 90 people, and then I got invited to do things with the Young Dentist Academy. Remember that about in 20 1516? And they were just asking me to do more and more and I was like, and I haven’t said this before. There were opportunities that I got asked to speak that I declined and I sent to some of my mentors because I wasn’t qualified to speak at that time. I didn’t have enough information, I didn’t have enough cases. I didn’t have the understanding. And I think if I’m going to give any sentiment to anyone that maybe would like to teach or whatever, it’s okay to say no rather than go up and look like an idiot very openly. And I passed on things to Andrew, Pal, Tiff, whoever it was, because I think they were better suited to those opportunities. Yeah. Because I think it’s a really big everyone thinks it’s the high life you’re in the limelight and all that.

[01:06:50] It’s not, it’s a responsibility if you go, if you, you teach prep all the time, if you teach and you get someone that just doesn’t get it, you take that quite personally. You need to make them understand it before they leave. You give them everything. Yeah. Whereas people just want to do the thing. Get paid to see you later. That’s not how it is for me. So if I can’t make you understand, I’m not a good enough teacher. Yeah. Something wrong with my communication? Exactly. Exactly that. Yeah. And what you enjoy more the teaching or the dentistry, but definitely the dentistry without a shadow of a doubt. I’ve got a very natural ability to talk in public places and with people and try and break things down. But I don’t like talking for no reason. Yeah, and even if there was a day and age where I didn’t need to do dentistry financially anymore, you still have me there because I love the clinical and it’s what I talk about. So I never want I never want people to ever consider that actually we didn’t train as teachers. We changed as clinicians to keep that your primary and make it a fantastic secondary. Yeah, but it will always remain that people don’t want to listen to people that aren’t doing it anymore. You don’t listen to the people that aren’t on the front line anymore.

[01:08:04] You know, technology and techniques keep changing so you can’t have to be up with it. Then what was your biggest clinical mistake? Its biggest clinical mistake. Like a massive oh, shit moment. Did I just do that? I’m aware I’m at. That’s where. Well, my experience I’ve just done something wrong. There’s obviously been a few. But one thing that has happened in the past was retreats from theif they’ve been retreat necessarily. They’ve been retreated and restored, but the crown is really, really loose and the only way to keep the teeth was to do post crafts. And I think at the time, quite a few years back, there’s disgruntlement between someone and someone at the practice. And I got involved and they want to be involved. And it’s the first time that the political situation leaned into the clinical. And I was thinking about it while I was doing the procedure and I was getting more and more irate about the situation. And you tend to lose focus. And I was doing a post preparation and this perfect root canal got perforated. What did you do? I didn’t even realise this is the bad thing. I didn’t realise until I took my X-ray and sat the patient. And the only saving grace in this situation was the patient was very well aware that these teeth might not survive. So the patient took care. So let me see how your X-rays and I saw the X-ray and I’d seen that the post was at the wrong angulation.

[01:09:37] So that set the lady up and said Hi Mrs. X today gone relatively well. However, it hasn’t gone as good as it could have and there has been an error which has led to the fact that this post will not survive and the tooth will not survive. I know that we had already talked about the fact that this tooth was questionable survivability wise, but this is compromised the tooth further. I’ll tell you what we’re going to do to solve this situation. I’m going to refer you to a specialist to see if the tooth is repairable and then we will re restore the tooth. But I think we need to have that very frank discussion about replacing and replacing the tooth because there’s a risk for it. And it starts off and then you see a bit of tension and stress and then a bit of thankfulness for the openness. Because you know what it’s like if you’re telling someone you’ve done something wrong. It’s a really awful situation. Yeah. You feel embarrassed. You feel right thing to do. Yeah. No, you have to, though. I can’t. I can just say to her. Oh, everything went really well. Cheers. On your way. I won’t be able to sleep at night, perhaps. What good is it doing? Charity work if you’re going to treat people as they come before? And yeah, so I was very, very open about it.

[01:10:50] She’s really thankful for my openness and honesty. Obviously, any specialist fees that were incurred I, I covered and incidentally, we were able to save the tooth. Now she understands, but she understood from before that the chance of survivability long term is still questionable. So far we’ve been alright and I know we’ve probably asked these questions before on the podcast, but let’s, let’s get them out again, right? So imagine it was your last day on the planet and you had your loved ones around you. What three pieces of wisdom would you leave them with? The three pieces of wisdom that I’d leave people with? Always remain humble. The world has given us a lot. We need to give a lot back. If someone’s having a bad day, don’t tend to try and make their bad day worse. So if someone’s come at you with something, then go back because you have no idea about the mentality in the situation they’re in. And so I’m going to say four enjoy every day. You lost. Go for it. If there are things you want to do, take the chance. Finally, always give charity. Because that always makes you richer. And not financially. The soul, the mind, the body, everything. So always give back. Just don’t. If your success happens, don’t forget where you. Where it all started. Charity is a really big part of my life, and I want it to stay that way.

[01:12:13] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman, Langroudi and Prav. Solanki.

[01:12:29] Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this file, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it, too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks. And don’t forget our six star rating.


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