Payman chats with dental coach and communication expert Barry Oulton.

Barry shares his journey into dentistry, despite his artistic nature, and how his father influenced his career choice. 

He discusses his education in the UK and the US, overcoming limiting beliefs and the challenges of running a practice.



In This Episode

[00:01:10] Backstory

[00:09:05] Study

[00:11:25] Journey to practice ownership

[00:15:40] Personal life and personal development

[00:28:40] Coaching greatness

[00:33:20] Limiting beliefs

[00:42:30] Patient journey and communication

[00:51:50] Blackbox thinking

[00:55:00] Practice management

[01:07:05] NHS to private transition

[01:09:40] State of the industry

[01:15:20] Fantasy dinner party

[01:17:15] Last days and legacy


About Barry Oulton

Dr Barry Oulton is a dentist, business owner, lecturer, coach, and mentor who has worked with Henry Schein, Septodont, DMG, S4S, Biohorizons, Bupa Dental, and Colosseum on B2B sales success in dentistry.

Barry Oulton: And so once I started to deal with my limiting beliefs and you can do limiting beliefs around relationships, [00:00:05] around yourself, around clearly the list that I’ve got is around wealth and money [00:00:10] and attitude towards towards money. Once you start to remove these limiting [00:00:15] beliefs, it frees you up to be making better choices. I’m now if [00:00:20] you imagine that I saw ten patients and and nine out of them chose the filling, [00:00:25] I now know that I did not serve them well enough because I put them off the crown, knowing [00:00:30] that the crown was the best. I didn’t put them off the crown consciously, but my [00:00:35] own limiting beliefs prevented them from choosing the best because they didn’t hear me [00:00:40] say the crown is best because I negated it subconsciously for them with the word. But [00:00:45] it’s crazy, right?

[VOICE]: This [00:00:50] is Dental Leaders. The [00:00:55] podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. [00:01:00] Your hosts Payman [00:01:05] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Payman Langroudi: How we run [00:01:10] our businesses, the way we communicate with our teams, our customers, [00:01:15] the way we look at the world really makes a massive difference to our outcomes. And [00:01:20] some dentists are taking on coaches and we’ve got one of the country’s [00:01:25] original coaches, NLP expert, communication expert, the confident [00:01:30] dentist Barry Alton. Um, lovely to have you on the podcast, [00:01:35] bud.

Barry Oulton: Thanks for having me Payman. It’s very lovely to be here.

Payman Langroudi: Barry. [00:01:40] This conversation tends to be one where we’re trying to figure out, you know, what made [00:01:45] you Barry Alton and then, you know, the the direction you’ve gone. So when you think [00:01:50] back to your childhood, is there something that stands out in that [00:01:55] journey of whatever it was that makes you feel like it’s [00:02:00] informed you becoming the person you are today?

Barry Oulton: Yeah, I think that’s [00:02:05] an interesting question, Charles. I think the influencing the biggest influencing factors were [00:02:10] later on. Uh, but certainly my dad has been a huge influence. My, [00:02:15] my dad groomed me to, to be in a profession he didn’t [00:02:20] really mind what profession, but given that my dad probably couldn’t read and write until he was late 20s. [00:02:25] Um, tough, very tough upbringing in Liverpool. He [00:02:30] became the basically became, uh, almost parenting his [00:02:35] four siblings from the age of eight. And he had a very tough upbringing. So he [00:02:40] what he wanted for his sons, me and my older brother, was that we would be part of a profession. So [00:02:45] I think it was, uh, predetermined that I would go down some line of that. And so [00:02:50] that was a big influence, and he just wanted the best for us. So he was constantly pushing [00:02:55] us to do the best that we could possibly do.

Payman Langroudi: How did dentistry come on the scene? Like why dentistry? [00:03:00]

Barry Oulton: So that’s an interesting situation because I was incredibly artistic. [00:03:05] But my dad had a belief that art was a good hobby, and it was it [00:03:10] would take me in the wrong direction. And so as a kid, I wasn’t permitted to study it. I wanted [00:03:15] to do art. The art teacher wanted me to do art. So in my spare time, uh, [00:03:20] at the age of when did we choose? Probably 14. 15. I [00:03:25] would be painting, I’d be drawing. I was engraving glass. [00:03:30] I was creative at home, but I had to do sciences and I had to do, [00:03:35] you know, the things that would more likely take me into one of the professions. And so [00:03:40] I at that point, I was a bit of an odd kid. What do you want to be when you grow up? And it was I want to be a [00:03:45] dad, which is a strange answer, but I, I knew that that’s I wanted to be a [00:03:50] family man. I wanted a family. So I convinced myself that I would be a paediatric [00:03:55] doctor and went down the route. But I, I was labelled [00:04:00] as a slow learner. As a daydreamer, I struggled to remember stuff [00:04:05] at at school. I excelled in things that were practical. I’m an experiential learner. [00:04:10] I’m highly kinaesthetic. We now know from our recent last three [00:04:15] four years with my eldest son, who is currently not being accepted [00:04:20] in any school. He’s being homeschooled because of his ADHD. We now know that I’m [00:04:25] highly ADHD as well, so going back in time things start to fit [00:04:30] into place. So I was applying for medicine. I had a car crash the two days [00:04:35] before my A levels sat my A-levels.

Barry Oulton: I didn’t get the results I needed, but that gave me breathing [00:04:40] space. I went back and re sat and I decided I wanted to do dentistry and having [00:04:45] not been allowed to do art for years, it was probably eight years later [00:04:50] and like 2 or 3 years after qualifying, that it dawned on me that I’d landed [00:04:55] on my feet in terms of being an artist. And because I now hand [00:05:00] carved smiles, I became a senior instructor for Larry Rosenthal’s crew, both [00:05:05] here and in America, teaching dentists 20 years older than me how [00:05:10] to create a smiles and how to hand carve them. And so I ended [00:05:15] up being an artist. And oddly, in my practice, I [00:05:20] don’t work from surgeries. I call them studios. And so little things kind of [00:05:25] dropped into place when ADHD was presented to us as a family [00:05:30] trait. And this transition that I’m moving away from clinical dentistry and moving [00:05:35] full time into coaching has also been a real task for me, because dentistry [00:05:40] has been so beautifully organised for me and such a [00:05:45] highly productive. So I work from two studios, I have two nurses. We have [00:05:50] this beautiful systemised approach to our patient journey. I don’t know what I’m doing until [00:05:55] I walk into the room, but then I’m I’m in flow. I’m, you know, I end up having [00:06:00] great conversations and relationships with my patients. And at the end of the day, I look at [00:06:05] the finances and go, what a successful day. And I have these all these hits of dopamine. And at the [00:06:10] end of the day, I know what I’ve done and I know how how well I’ve achieved.

Barry Oulton: And you now take me out of that scenario. [00:06:15] Put me in a shed in the garden where I’m building my coaching business, and it’s [00:06:20] very different. You know, the income is feast or fallow. It’s not a daily target. And [00:06:25] so I it’s been a quite a steep learning curve and adjusting. But [00:06:30] I think ultimately getting into dentistry was partly because [00:06:35] I wanted a family. And when I was looking at any medics that we knew, they were travelling [00:06:40] wherever the jobs were, you got to remember, this is like 35 years ago and [00:06:45] all the dentists that we knew, not many, but they were doing really well, [00:06:50] ran their own business, worked under their own hours, and I thought, you [00:06:55] know, that that kind of that’s for me. And then when I, I struggled in first year because [00:07:00] it was removing histopathology, anatomy, physiology, all of this reading and having [00:07:05] to remember as soon as I got hands on into something, that’s [00:07:10] when I really hit my lane. And I went from struggling [00:07:15] to excelling. When it was hands on, I was, you know, I’d finished, I’d finished [00:07:20] doing the wax up for a gold crown before anybody, you know, put [00:07:25] in their first fissure. And then I was hand carving roses and just stuff like [00:07:30] that. So I’ve, I have I love dentistry, I [00:07:35] love the interaction with with people. I’m a people person. I love the relationships [00:07:40] I’ve been in my practice now for. Well, I’m exiting. But 25 [00:07:45] years I’ve been in that one place and it still feels like yesterday. Um, where. [00:07:50]

Payman Langroudi: Where did you study?

Barry Oulton: I’m a Leeds grad for my, um, undergrad. [00:07:55] I then did Dpd’s, which is a three year post [00:08:00] grad in, uh, attached to Bristol. And then I did most of my, [00:08:05] um, post grad studying over in the States in terms of [00:08:10] eight levels of Dawson, as with John Cranham in his practice. I was with Galit [00:08:15] Goral in his practice, where I learned my veneers. Um, I spent [00:08:20] time with Spear in Florida, in fact. And then all my [00:08:25] NLP training was in the States as well, so all over the place to be honest. Oh, and Romania, [00:08:30] Romania as well. I did some training in Romania with flooring.

Payman Langroudi: Flooring?

Barry Oulton: Yeah. [00:08:35] What a what a guy.

Payman Langroudi: So. And where had you grown up before? [00:08:40] Leeds.

Barry Oulton: So near Liverpool, on the Wirral. So the Welsh would call me a plastic Scouser [00:08:45] and the Scousers would call me a woolly back. Because the Wirral [00:08:50] is this little peninsula, so it’s got three sides of water on it between North Wales [00:08:55] and Liverpool. Um, so born and bred on the Wirral, went over to Leeds and then I did [00:09:00] my VTE year back on the Wirral before I came down south.

Payman Langroudi: And what kind of a cat [00:09:05] were you? I mean, like when you, when you got to Leeds, was it like, you know, your first taste [00:09:10] of freedom. Did you party loads or didn’t you party loads did you. What were you like? [00:09:15]

Barry Oulton: I was a village boy. My one of my my best mate. My best man is [00:09:20] one of the, uh, the heads of the police in Liverpool. And he said, you know, you’ve [00:09:25] been brought up in Disneyland and you haven’t got a clue what’s going on in the world. And, [00:09:30] you know, I used to think, well, that’s not true. And now I know absolutely it was true. So, [00:09:35] um, I was very I was shy, I was really shy, to be honest. I wouldn’t say boo to [00:09:40] a goose. And then, um, the thing that really broke the mould was, [00:09:45] uh, I met and started dating an aerobics instructor, [00:09:50] and, um, got super fit, and I became an aerobics instructor myself [00:09:55] and a presenter and actually end of university, I [00:10:00] had a decision to make whether to become, because I was working with some stuff, there was [00:10:05] some TV work offered and some international stuff offered. I was [00:10:10] I was presenting to present teaching presenters. I was basically I was pretty good at it, [00:10:15] jumping up and down. And that’s how I met my my first wife [00:10:20] teaching classes. So I was teaching aerobics, and that just brought my confidence up because [00:10:25] then it was effectively performing in front of people, creating and that creative [00:10:30] side. So I was creating routines, and then I was teaching instructors how to deliver [00:10:35] those routines. And so that really helped me to come out of my shell. So uni was great. [00:10:40] I was I lived in a house, we bought a house, me and uh, three mates [00:10:45] who were medics and uh, I had a fantastic time at university, but I [00:10:50] really got in. I got into my own personal groove of confidence. I would say, [00:10:55] um, at the point I, a point at which I qualified. And then life was just phenomenal [00:11:00] after that because I was mixing, teaching, aerobics. I was doing like 14 hours a week on top [00:11:05] of working full time. So I had. Yeah, I had plenty of money and plenty of time [00:11:10] and plenty of fun. And yeah, it was it was good.

Payman Langroudi: So then the [00:11:15] journey from that point of, you know, qualifying to starting [00:11:20] your own practice, how long was that?

Barry Oulton: Five years. So I knew I mean, my dad and. [00:11:25]

Payman Langroudi: That was this practice that you just.

Barry Oulton: Exited. Right. So he taught himself to read and write, got himself [00:11:30] kind of to university, to a level at university because he became [00:11:35] probation officer, social worker. And then he ended his career being [00:11:40] head of child protection at Liverpool, which is a goddamn awful job. But none [00:11:45] of those paid very well. And so he was also a TV engineer back in the days [00:11:50] where TVs had tubes and stuff like that. So my dad from [00:11:55] from the day that I can remember him, worked two jobs. Uh, he’d work in 9 to 5, [00:12:00] where he’d be in Chester, he’d come home, he’d have dinner, and then he’d work till, [00:12:05] I don’t know, 11 midnight, whatever. Fixing TVs, delivering, doing [00:12:10] all sorts of stuff. So I always knew that I wanted to be self-employed because I saw the difference between [00:12:15] being employed and being self-employed. So I, I consciously made a decision that I would go [00:12:20] down to London for five years and work in as many different practices as I possibly [00:12:25] could in order to find out what I wanted to do, because I had no idea. Right? I [00:12:30] qualified from uni, did my with a phenomenal man, and that was, you [00:12:35] know, I got a taste of what it’s like to work in the NHS. And so then I [00:12:40] went down to London and I didn’t work anywhere full time.

Barry Oulton: I worked in in a whole [00:12:45] range of different places part time. I think I ended up working in 10 or [00:12:50] 11 different practices to get an idea of what I wanted. And then I met a man who [00:12:55] became a phenomenal mentor to me, a guy who [00:13:00] was going to be starting up a corporate back in the day, a guy called Julian [00:13:05] Perry, who then ended up at I know, Julian Perry. So [00:13:10] he took he took me under his wing for probably ten, 12 years, [00:13:15] something like that, maybe even longer. And he taught me what private dentistry was, [00:13:20] taught me how, you know, how to have conversations with patients. And this is before I really, truly [00:13:25] learned the essence of communication. And then he was buying this [00:13:30] practice in a place called Hazelmere in Surrey, near Guildford, to be part of [00:13:35] his corporate. And that was in the day where there were like I think there was something like 12 or [00:13:40] 14, don’t remember limited company names that were allowed in dentistry. And that [00:13:45] was in the day when nobody else could set up a limited company. It was all kind of single [00:13:50] handed practitioners. Right. And these limited that.

Payman Langroudi: Was that was um, aura. [00:13:55] Right. It was.

Barry Oulton: Aura. Great memory. So he was setting up aura. Yeah. And I [00:14:00] phoned him one day because I was working for him in, um, Wandsworth. And he’d already had. [00:14:05]

Payman Langroudi: I’ve been to that practice.

Barry Oulton: He already had Thayer Street, and he was buying three practices. But [00:14:10] then he found out that the the limited company name that he was purchasing and they were swapping for crazy money [00:14:15] had been, I think, accidentally trading illegally, which meant that he [00:14:20] couldn’t buy it. And so he backed out of buying these additional practices [00:14:25] because he just wasn’t in that position. So I managed [00:14:30] to sweep in and buy Hazelmere. It wasn’t, you know, I didn’t I [00:14:35] didn’t personally go looking for it, but I know full well that if JP has [00:14:40] done his due diligence and says it’s a it’s a good opportunity, then God [00:14:45] damn it, I knew that it would be a good opportunity and it really was. So I, [00:14:50] I bought it unseen, put a deposit down on it, met the old boy and [00:14:55] and that was it. And that was 26, nearly 26 years ago, September [00:15:00] 1999. And it was a really dreary. Didn’t have a [00:15:05] motorised chair, had a pump action chair. He was an ex-army dentist. He [00:15:10] was pretty brutal with his patients. So actually, as this [00:15:15] young kid as I was, it was it was really I mean, it I didn’t find it easy, but in hindsight, it was [00:15:20] relatively easy to go in and impress the patients because I truly [00:15:25] gave us stuff. And, you know, I’m my aim was to [00:15:30] provide gentle, great quality dentistry and it just grew from there, really. [00:15:35]

Payman Langroudi: So you said when I asked you about what in your childhood informed [00:15:40] kind of the person you’ve become. You said it was stuff after your childhood. Really? That. Yeah, [00:15:45] that it was it was it in this phase?

Barry Oulton: Yeah. So I [00:15:50] bought Hazelmere, I was married, and when I bought it, my eldest [00:15:55] daughter had literally was turning one and um, yeah. [00:16:00] So I ran that my, my wife, who had met in an aerobics class, [00:16:05] my, my, my wife, um, supported me through that, but but, um, like, [00:16:10] I thought life was pretty good. I bought my what I thought at the time was my dream house. Life [00:16:15] was good. I was I was working hard. I started a squat practice in Tower Hill [00:16:20] in London. I bought another practice, um, in hazelmere and moved it to [00:16:25] me. I was working too hard seven days a week, so I actually basically [00:16:30] gave the squat practice to my. He was a friend at the time, but [00:16:35] I was there was an equal distribution of the effort. And so I just [00:16:40] gifted him and said, you take it on and he’s still there and he’s made a phenomenal success of it. [00:16:45] But what that did is that that began to give me some life work balance. Um, [00:16:50] and then I found out that my wife was having a two year affair with a friend of mine, and. [00:16:55] Whoa. Yeah, that was the point that I, uh. Yeah, that [00:17:00] was a massive, massive trauma, to be honest. It was, um. I [00:17:05] remind you that I said when I was, people said, what do you want to be? And I said, I [00:17:10] want to be a dad.

Barry Oulton: And so I had two amazing young kids, probably. How old are they then? [00:17:15] Six and three. Something like that. So the affair had started when my youngest was just [00:17:20] one. And she was like, yeah, you can see them whenever you want them. And I was like, no [00:17:25] way. I’ve seen a friend just go through this. I said, I will leave [00:17:30] my dream home when I get a legal document that says, I’ve got my children 50 over 50. And [00:17:35] what a blessing to be a dentist, because I had friends down here [00:17:40] in the South that commute. Hazem is a big commuter town and these guys are working five days [00:17:45] a week getting the train at 632, the 632 from Hazelmere [00:17:50] up to Waterloo and getting home at 9:00 at night. And so these guys [00:17:55] work frigging hard during the week, don’t really see anybody. You know, I did it two days [00:18:00] a week when I had the London practice. I’d leave in the dark when everybody was asleep. I’d come home [00:18:05] in the dark when everybody was asleep. But as a dentist with a practice that was ten minutes away from home, [00:18:10] I can be as flexible as I like because I own the damn thing. So I said, I want my kids 5050 [00:18:15] took a year, uh, of abuse. I would get ice cold water poured [00:18:20] on me in the middle of the night, told to leave the house.

Barry Oulton: I was attacked three times. It was pretty horrific. [00:18:25] But at the end of it, um, there was this one time where, you [00:18:30] know, there was a knife pulled and I got a phone call from a lawyer saying, you don’t know what’s happened, but [00:18:35] they’ve agreed to you having the kids 5050. And so that was the moment that [00:18:40] I went and became a single dad 50% of the time. Slept on a floor [00:18:45] and a flat for six months because literally they took me to the absolute cleaners and [00:18:50] I was kind of damaged and broken. I got into a relationship with a, um, a particularly [00:18:55] very good looking nutter. Uh, that took me. Took me down. Uh, every [00:19:00] other weekend I was daddy, and every other weekend it was crazy, crazy [00:19:05] party land. And I. I realised it just wasn’t working. It wasn’t good. I found [00:19:10] out that my youngest daughter was really hurting herself, self-harming, but kind of at the age [00:19:15] of six and seven, pinching herself and bleeding. And I was like, I’ve got to sort my shit out. I’ve got to get out of this relationship. [00:19:20] I’ve got to sort myself out. So that’s when I went and did some personal development. I did some training [00:19:25] with a guy called Tony Robbins and with him, uh, on Thursday, in fact. And this Thursday. [00:19:30]

Payman Langroudi: Right before you move on, I’ve got to ask you some questions about that period. I hope you don’t mind. No, [00:19:35] go for it. But so so, you know, when what was going through your [00:19:40] head regarding your wife, regarding your wife, were you I mean, [00:19:45] was there any element of it that you blamed yourself or did you just think she’s a nutter? [00:19:50] Uh, with.

Barry Oulton: My wife at the time, I felt very much cuckolded because this [00:19:55] guy would come to our front door with his designs for my website. And [00:20:00] that was a complete ruse to determine whether I was in or not. If I was in, I’d go. I brought you some designs, [00:20:05] and I’d be turning to my wife. Go, what a what? A good bloke comes out of his way to come and share with us [00:20:10] what a good bloke. No, he was, he was knocking on the door to see if he could knock her [00:20:15] up if I wasn’t there. So. I built, I beat myself up for [00:20:20] being naive and stupid. But no, I at this point in time, I [00:20:25] felt very affected by it all. Not not realising [00:20:30] that that was my doing to feel affected. Right. And I thought, [00:20:35] to be fair, I thought that all the time that I was with my ex-wife, I [00:20:40] thought that she had problems. She had a very tough childhood and I was I thought I was kind of like knight [00:20:45] in shining armour, not realising that I had my own healing, to [00:20:50] do my own stuff that I needed to go through. And so once I started this [00:20:55] personal development journey. I started to realise, you know, I felt that, [00:21:00] you know, for the first, probably 2 or 3 years of this whole thing breaking down and [00:21:05] this horrible experience of trying to defend and go through court because [00:21:10] they were trying to take everything.

Barry Oulton: And I felt very I felt the victim. [00:21:15] And then when I did some personal development and then I started to learn my NLP [00:21:20] and became a master practitioner and a hypnotherapist. What I realised is [00:21:25] that in hindsight, I was 50% responsible for the breakdown of the marriage. [00:21:30] You know, I, I didn’t I didn’t make her go and have an affair. But clearly, [00:21:35] you know, the, the scenario and the situation was created by us both [00:21:40] where we made choices. And, you know, her choice was to do that. So [00:21:45] it’s I wouldn’t be who I am today without that. That that was a horrible three years. But [00:21:50] it is apart from my children and Chloe. That’s the best thing that ever happened [00:21:55] to me because it’s made me who I am. It was the biggest trauma, but [00:22:00] also the biggest gift. And anybody you speak to, right, who’s been through any [00:22:05] level of trauma will ultimately say that at a period of time, they turn around and go, it’s [00:22:10] one of the best things that happened, because if you focus on growth, if [00:22:15] you focus on, you know, finding the silver lining in something, then actually [00:22:20] the silver lining is by far away outweighs the trauma that you felt at the time. [00:22:25]

Payman Langroudi: Not to mention you’ve been bridging the gap between Tony Robbins and [00:22:30] dentists since that time, right? You know, like you’re looking, looking for, looking for [00:22:35] the, um, personal development for yourself has led to who you’ve become now, right?

Barry Oulton: That’s exactly [00:22:40] right.

Payman Langroudi: Personal development for dentists. You know.

Barry Oulton: There are people out there at the moment that are [00:22:45] doing Tony esque things, trying to make an awful lot of money [00:22:50] in a short period of time. And, you know, I keep banging on the fact that, you know, I’m here for 20 years. [00:22:55] You know, my my whole aim is to my success [00:23:00] is based on my clients success, which is why, you know, not [00:23:05] to speak about my program, but my entry level program is a 100% [00:23:10] money back guarantee, because the one thing I’ve noticed is that [00:23:15] it’s very hard to have dentists understand and accept when it comes to communication, [00:23:20] that there’s a lot that they don’t know. You know, you speak to any dentist and they think they’re bloody [00:23:25] good at communicating. And they spend a lot of time and energy on learning their clinical [00:23:30] skills or upskilling themselves clinically. And not many really spend much time [00:23:35] and energy or finances on upskilling themselves with their communication skills. [00:23:40] And so, you know, I, I have quite a bold guarantee and [00:23:45] that is I, I have a 12 week program. Ultimately I run a 1 [00:23:50] to 3 year mastermind. Right. But that’s a high ticket, high value. And I [00:23:55] openly say that unless you know and love me, no one’s going to spend nearly 50 grand [00:24:00] with me to be with me for a year. If you know and love me, then it’s money [00:24:05] well spent, right? So I have an entry level program which is a fraction of the cost. It’s 12 [00:24:10] weeks, and I guarantee that you will double that investment in me within the 12 weeks, [00:24:15] or you get your money back, or I work with you for free until you do.

Barry Oulton: And [00:24:20] nobody, nobody has ever wanted their money back because typically [00:24:25] they more than double their income. I’ve got one guy who’s worked with me now for ten weeks, [00:24:30] and his income is up by 50%. And it’s just by implementing [00:24:35] really sensible, simple things about communication and about processes and [00:24:40] about the patient journey that work wherever you are, whatever sort of [00:24:45] practice you’ve got, whatever sort of dentistry you do, and it’s just a no brainer. So [00:24:50] for me, yes, I want to bridge that gap. I want to bring communication, personal development. [00:24:55] I want to bring all of that into dentistry, but I want it to benefit everybody. So for me, [00:25:00] I believe it’s symbiotic. It benefits the patient, mostly because [00:25:05] what I help people do is to help their patients make their best choices. But [00:25:10] by not shying away from having conversations, by asking specific [00:25:15] questions that I’ve developed and devised in order to what we call future Pace [00:25:20] patients. And they basically write their own treatment plans. And so rather than it being [00:25:25] hi, how are you? How are your teeth? Any problems? Which is what the majority of dentists [00:25:30] do. And then they’re looking for where they can use their new skills. They’re [00:25:35] looking for maybe a bonding case or they’re looking for whitening, but they can’t find a way of having [00:25:40] those conversations. So what they often do is they will market to people that [00:25:45] are knowingly wanting to get that kind of stuff and they attract them. But in actual fact, [00:25:50] the majority of the income that a dentist can make is from their existing patient [00:25:55] base.

Barry Oulton: They just need to ask them the right questions. And those patients end up basically [00:26:00] giving the opinion that they want white, they want straight, they want confidence, they want [00:26:05] everything that these dentists are learning to do. It’s just these dentists don’t know how to find that out from [00:26:10] their existing patient base. So that’s what I help them do as I help them to really have [00:26:15] different, easy, comfortable conversations with patients. Get [00:26:20] them to systemise how they’re delivering their dentistry, how they’re delivering their treatment plans. So [00:26:25] we deliver three treatment plans to every single patient colour coded. So it’s very obvious what [00:26:30] must be done, what could be done, what’s nice to be done. And then we let the patients start [00:26:35] to make their own choices. So just works an absolute treat. And in amongst that. [00:26:40] There’s a lot of personal development. Now, I can’t sell at this stage. I don’t [00:26:45] feel that I can sell a training course on personal development, because very few dentists [00:26:50] will put their hand up and go, yeah, I’d like some personal development. Unless they got a big trauma, like a divorce. I mean, I was that right? [00:26:55] I didn’t think I needed personal development. I was doing all right. Thanks very much, mate. Then the shit hit [00:27:00] the fan and I was like, I need to sort myself out. So I went and had personal development. [00:27:05] But what I know is that when I’m working with clients in the mastermind, like [00:27:10] I’ve got my mastermind coming up in three weeks and the two days that I’ve put together, it’s [00:27:15] phenomenal.

Barry Oulton: And it’s all about personal development because in order to help them [00:27:20] improve their business, I have to help them improve, particularly their their mindset, their limiting [00:27:25] beliefs, their attitudes give them tools and understanding of how they can [00:27:30] change their results. And by ultimately you want to get different. Everybody wants different results, right? [00:27:35] Everybody wants different results. Yeah. And so nobody really wants to change their [00:27:40] behaviours. What we have to do is change the interaction that caused the behaviours. So [00:27:45] it’s their physiology, their body, their thoughts and it’s the the language [00:27:50] that they use both internally and externally. It’s called the triad. And if we help them to understand the triad, [00:27:55] show them how it works, give them an example, take them through that example, completely comfortable, [00:28:00] and then giving them a formula of how they can do that themselves at home. Then they start to empower [00:28:05] themselves. So the feedback I get from these guys that I work with is, you know, yes, I made the money, [00:28:10] but that wasn’t the biggest change. The biggest change is me, my mindset, my attitude. And I’m like, that’s [00:28:15] what I wanted. But you can’t really. I don’t think in this day and age, [00:28:20] it’s particularly easy to sell that as a concept that somebody’s going to purchase. They will [00:28:25] consider a money back guarantee of doubling your investment because you’ve got nothing [00:28:30] to lose. And then when I deliver it, they get a whole lot more out of it. So it’s, [00:28:35] um, sell them what they want and then give them what they need.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. [00:28:40] Barry, you know, I’m, I, we run some education courses as well, you know, composite [00:28:45] bonding course. I do a whitening course. And education [00:28:50] for me, it’s a funny thing because, you know, the execution [00:28:55] of the skills. Is so much more important than the skills itself. [00:29:00] And, you know, like you say, hey, pay, how [00:29:05] am I going to lose weight? Well, okay, eat less crap and go to the gym, right? [00:29:10] We all know that. But it’s the execution that [00:29:15] ends up being the difficult thing. So, you know when when we have our courses, I [00:29:20] can sometimes see, you know, from the. From the work. Sometimes you can [00:29:25] see who’s going to be better and who’s going to be worse. But what are some like when you when you’ve [00:29:30] got people you’re teaching people. What are signs that your delegate is coachable [00:29:35] or isn’t coachable? I’d like to hear about the problem ones. So ones the ones that are difficult [00:29:40] to coach.

Barry Oulton: Um. What a great question. [00:29:45] I would say that everybody ultimately [00:29:50] I believe everybody is coachable. I think there are some that are [00:29:55] resistant. I would say that.

Payman Langroudi: And for the sake [00:30:00] of the argument, for the sake of the argument, you, the person who bought your course by [00:30:05] by his very nature as a self-selecting someone who’s trying to improve. But sometimes that person might get you involved [00:30:10] with the whole practice, and you get someone in the practice who’s resistant.

Barry Oulton: Generally, people [00:30:15] that are buying my course are not looking to improve themselves. They’re looking to improve their their results, [00:30:20] their business results.

Payman Langroudi: You know what I’m saying is, did you sometimes have to teach [00:30:25] or inspire someone who wasn’t the person who actually applied to be coached by [00:30:30] you like a team member, you know? Yeah, it’s someone who’s that person [00:30:35] might even be completely negative towards you because they didn’t ask to be trained in the first [00:30:40] place.

Barry Oulton: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. There’s I mean that’s common. So as part of our mastermind. [00:30:45] So the mastermind is I mean, I’ve got this sounds really [00:30:50] blowing smoke up my own backside, but it’s just really beautifully put together. [00:30:55] So we take the 12 months and we break it down into four monthly [00:31:00] sections, right? And every four months we have a two day live. [00:31:05] Where I get everybody together. Just a mastermind as their partners, whether that’s life or business, [00:31:10] and their PMS are invited to in a room in London. And we run the two days [00:31:15] and then that’s, that’s the four months we break the four months [00:31:20] down into two eight week cycles and the eight week cycles, we have an overriding topic, like leadership [00:31:25] or sales or HR or, um, whatever, overriding. [00:31:30] But then we’re working on their bespoke program. In [00:31:35] the middle of those two eight weeks, we run a team training day, and so you get to bring [00:31:40] your whole team on the day to experience. And that’s ultimately where we get [00:31:45] to break down. Part of mastermind is we have an online portal with all the training videos. So [00:31:50] they get me teaching them via video, which they can access whenever [00:31:55] they want. But where we really start to break down, um, limiting beliefs and concerns [00:32:00] and worries and it’s always fear based.

Barry Oulton: It’s always they’re fearful of something is [00:32:05] when we get into a face to face interaction. So we ran our [00:32:10] last one just a month or so ago in Manchester. We had [00:32:15] 70 just under 80 delegates. All their teams came and overwhelmingly [00:32:20] they all walked away going, oh my God, that was amazing. And that’s because then I’m able to begin to [00:32:25] expose them to some of these things that help them. So we talk about, you know, elements [00:32:30] of confidence. So yes, there’s resistance. There’s resistance from people that [00:32:35] don’t know what it is, that don’t know what to expect, that are fearful that they’re going to have [00:32:40] to stand up and talk. And so the first thing we get out there is there’s no role play. There’s no [00:32:45] icky situations. Um, and then having given the opportunity, I’m [00:32:50] able to help. I would say 99% of the people overcome their limiting beliefs [00:32:55] and their worries and actually enjoy the experience. There is always going to be somebody [00:33:00] that is kind of dragged along because they’re part of the team, that just [00:33:05] because of whatever is going on for them, they just don’t want to engage [00:33:10] or they they feel that it’s just not for them. But that is it is very rare.

Payman Langroudi: All [00:33:15] right. But then go through how what are the common limiting beliefs that people bring up [00:33:20] and what do you do to get over them.

Barry Oulton: Perfect. Okay. So [00:33:25] fundamentally for all human beings, the two [00:33:30] most common limiting beliefs that almost all other beliefs filter down to. [00:33:35] Or that I won’t be loved and I’m not good enough. Now [00:33:40] I don’t, I don’t unless I’m doing some 1 to 1 coaching. I don’t really exercise [00:33:45] into that area because that stuff that you would do therapeutically, [00:33:50] which I’ve done, you know, I used to do Breakthrough Days, so I’d take a [00:33:55] practice owner and I’d do an eight hour, 8 to 9 hour day with them where I’d help them with [00:34:00] limiting beliefs. We’d do Gestalt therapy, something called timeline release, and we’d get rid of these [00:34:05] limiting beliefs. But there are lots of surface beliefs above those limiting [00:34:10] beliefs, like, uh, selling is a dirty word or nobody. [00:34:15] I had limiting beliefs around money. I had limiting beliefs around wealth. So [00:34:20] I had beliefs like, uh, rich people are bastards and only become rich by crapping [00:34:25] on other people. That was a belief that I had. I had a belief that [00:34:30] money doesn’t grow on trees. I had a belief that money is the root of all evil. [00:34:35] And then when I did my training and did some psychology work, and I did my [00:34:40] some elements of Gestalt therapy, what I understood was that they weren’t my [00:34:45] beliefs. I believed them, but they came from witnessing things as a child. [00:34:50] And so I’ve created this. It’s called the Wealth Mindset discovery. 72 [00:34:55] questions My clients get to answer score from 1 to 10. Anything [00:35:00] over a four you want to start to deal with because they’re all limiting beliefs. And [00:35:05] there’s six questions that will get rid of a limiting belief, which is crazy. But when you go [00:35:10] through the questions and you ask yourself, you then start to challenge that limited belief because you don’t know [00:35:15] that you’ve got it because it’s there. It’s in you, right?

Payman Langroudi: Just what are they? What are they? My [00:35:20] limiting belief is I’m not, uh, worth, uh, the prices that [00:35:25] this practice charges. So what are the six questions?

Barry Oulton: Uh, okay, so I’m [00:35:30] not worth what the practice charges. Well, firstly, it would depend [00:35:35] who that is. Who setting the fees, and to a degree, what the fees [00:35:40] are. Right. Because clearly there will be occasion [00:35:45] where fees are rarely, but occasionally there’s going to be fees that are [00:35:50] ridiculously high. And it’s then not just about worth, but [00:35:55] ultimately it still is. So, um, there’s this thing called a Cartesian equation. [00:36:00] And one of the questions, I mean, I’ll go, I can go through them all. But one of them that really [00:36:05] plays with your head is what am I afraid will happen [00:36:10] if I was to not believe that belief? So the first thing is, what [00:36:15] is the belief that’s holding me back? What’s the limiting belief? Why do I believe that so effectively? [00:36:20] You present the evidence to yourself? Well, I believe that because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. [00:36:25] What am I afraid would happen if I was to not believe that? Now that’s the [00:36:30] bit that people are like, well, hang on a minute. Let me think about that for a second, because [00:36:35] then you’re what you’re doing is you’re challenging the fact that your subconscious mind, to a degree, is protecting you from [00:36:40] something. So you you uphold this belief subconsciously because [00:36:45] if you didn’t believe it, you fear something else would happen. So. So I give you an example. So [00:36:50] I had a belief that rich people were bastards and they they only came bastards by crapping [00:36:55] on people.

Barry Oulton: So what is my limiting belief? That’s the limiting belief. Why do I believe that? Well, I believe [00:37:00] that because when I was a kid, my dad had this friend who was incredibly [00:37:05] wealthy and absolutely took my dad and three other guys [00:37:10] to the cleaners, you know, he he ordered, um, [00:37:15] himself an 82 foot yacht. We’d been sailing since we were four. He [00:37:20] said to my dad and two other guys, actually, three of them. Look, if you, um, [00:37:25] I’ll pay you guys to to to take it from Southampton to the Greek islands. [00:37:30] You sail it over, we’ll get chartered. I’ll pay for your flights back and your accommodation there. I’ll do [00:37:35] this, that and the other. And, um, basically, they busted [00:37:40] their asses to get this boat to the Greek islands where they were arrested, [00:37:45] locked up. And this gentleman, Mr. Jackson, had [00:37:50] basically completely shafted them, didn’t pay for anything, didn’t do anything. And so I witnessed [00:37:55] this kind of situation with my dad and my dad, you know, I [00:38:00] guess muttering and conversations with my mum that rich people are bastards. And so that was [00:38:05] my belief, even though I’ve met many wealthy people who are philanthropists [00:38:10] and they’re generous and they’re amazing. It was a belief, right. And so it [00:38:15] was holding me back. I owned my practice at the time, and it held me back [00:38:20] because I feared becoming wealthy.

Barry Oulton: And so the next question is, [00:38:25] what do I fear? What what what would I fear if I was to [00:38:30] not believe that belief? And I thought about it and I went, well, if I was to not believe [00:38:35] that rich people are bastards, then I could become rich. And what I fear is that my dad might think that I’m a bastard [00:38:40] and write me off. And that was the underlying root belief. [00:38:45] The next question is, do I believe that? And the answer is, of [00:38:50] course not. Of course, I don’t believe that if I became wealthy, my dad would write me off. [00:38:55] Whose belief was that? Anyway? That was my dad’s belief, not mine. So what [00:39:00] is a new and empowering belief? That is your own. And that is, I can work [00:39:05] incredibly hard. I can become as wealthy as I like because that allows me to give back more, [00:39:10] to support more. And that includes my dad. And my dad would love me and be proud of me regardless. And [00:39:15] that one change in belief then allowed me to start to work in a [00:39:20] way that I was generating wealth I didn’t fear. I feared having a nice [00:39:25] car because patients would reject me. I feared talking about going on a nice holiday because patients [00:39:30] and I had the evidence because I decorate the the practice and pay some, the odd patient would [00:39:35] come in and go, oh, so, um, this is where our money’s going, is it? Now what [00:39:40] you focus on grows, right? So let’s say I’ve got 500 patients that come through the door and one says, [00:39:45] oh, so this is where my money’s going.

Barry Oulton: It’s the only one I remember because [00:39:50] it feeds that limiting belief. Because to have a belief, it’s like a tabletop. And to stand up, you need legs [00:39:55] and you need legs of evidence. And so you look for the legs of evidence subconsciously. And you find [00:40:00] it and you go see. So I’ll give you another example that played really well. Right? I had [00:40:05] a limiting belief that patients only wanted the cheapest possible dentistry. They [00:40:10] didn’t want private, they only wanted NHS. They wouldn’t choose private [00:40:15] over NHS and nobody would pay me £500 for a crown. That was my belief. And [00:40:20] so Doris would come in with a fractured lower left six. And I’d say, Doris, [00:40:25] I could crown that tooth, which is best, but I could fill it, which is cheaper [00:40:30] now. I didn’t realise at the time that my language pattern the word but [00:40:35] negates what comes before it. And so even though in my head [00:40:40] I’d gone look, we could crown it and it’s best. And then I offered the filling. Every patient [00:40:45] went, yeah, okay, let’s fill it. That became the evidence for me to go see. Nobody [00:40:50] wants private dentistry.

Barry Oulton: Nobody wants to crown the teeth. Nobody’s going to pay £500 for a crown. Then [00:40:55] I learned some Milton Erickson patterns in terms of language skills. And I learned these [00:41:00] things like cause and effect and all sorts of different things that I learned. And I learned that the word but [00:41:05] negates what comes before it. So I changed my language. Doris. I could fill that [00:41:10] which is cheaper, but I could crown it which is best. And my patients went, [00:41:15] okay, Barry, we’ll crown it. And I was like, Holy crap, I have been the problem, not my patients. [00:41:20] And so once I started to deal with my limiting beliefs and you can do limiting [00:41:25] beliefs around relationships, around yourself, around. The list that I’ve got [00:41:30] is around wealth and money and attitude towards towards money. Once you start [00:41:35] to remove these limiting beliefs, it frees you up to be making better [00:41:40] choices. I’m now if you imagine I saw ten patients and and nine out [00:41:45] of them chose the filling, I now know that I did not serve them well enough because I [00:41:50] put them off the crown, knowing that the crown was the best. I didn’t put them off the crown consciously, [00:41:55] but my own limiting beliefs prevented them from [00:42:00] choosing the best because they didn’t hear me say the crown is best because I negated it subconsciously [00:42:05] for them with the word. But it’s crazy, right? Mm.

Payman Langroudi: Very [00:42:10] interesting.

Barry Oulton: Well, I mean.

Payman Langroudi: That’s very interesting.

Barry Oulton: One of the simple things is teaching people [00:42:15] language patterns, teaching people how to have some conversations and words that impact people [00:42:20] and how you can use that. Now, for me, it has to [00:42:25] be based on evidence based dentistry. It’s got to be based on integrity. You know, if I believe [00:42:30] truly that the Crown is the best option, I owe it to my patient to present [00:42:35] it in a way that allows them to know, understand and believe the [00:42:40] same thing.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. Looking at your work, [00:42:45] I mean, when I say work, your your social media presence, the [00:42:50] there’s a, there’s a big element of your sort of way that you look at [00:42:55] this as service and blowing the socks off your patients. Yeah. And [00:43:00] and that being the focus and that being the focus, which is I think very important, [00:43:05] you know, um, in, in a similar way to, you know, you’re saying you say something like, uh, [00:43:10] people aren’t after teeth whitening thereafter. What, it gets them to have a white [00:43:15] smile, you know, the confidence and but in that same way, um, this [00:43:20] question of service. And for me, it’s almost like [00:43:25] being of service. What can you tell me? You know, around that, I mean. [00:43:30] Yeah, okay. Knock people’s socks off, do you is that is that something that is is [00:43:35] I mean, for me, it’s something that being of service is doing the right thing at the right [00:43:40] time rather than a tactic.

Barry Oulton: So the right thing at the right time. [00:43:45] I totally agree with that. And part, I believe, of being of service is determining [00:43:50] or helping that person determine what is the right thing at the right time for them. Because [00:43:55] let’s let’s assume that Doris comes in with a fractured lower F6. [00:44:00] And I know that the absolute best. So I’ve asked him my 20 year question. [00:44:05] So our future pastor at some point where she told me that it’s really important that she doesn’t lose her teeth. [00:44:10] This is really important that she keeps her own teeth. She comes in with a fractured lower [00:44:15] left. Six more than 40% of the tooth is missing. It’s got an old amalgam, and it’s got secondary decay. [00:44:20] And based on the fact that she’s told me she wants to keep them for as long as humanly possible. [00:44:25] I know that the Crown is the absolute best choice clinically. But [00:44:30] it might just be that at that point in time. Her [00:44:35] cars crashed. She didn’t have insurance or she simply doesn’t have the money. So [00:44:40] whilst it’s the best for the tooth and it’s best for her in the long run, [00:44:45] maybe at that point in time it just simply isn’t the best for her [00:44:50] and her, um, ecology and her environment. And so part [00:44:55] of my job, I believe, is to find out what’s right for her and then [00:45:00] provide a solution. So being in service, I agree, is doing the right thing [00:45:05] at the right time. And in order to do that, you have to ask different [00:45:10] questions from what we were taught to ask or not taught to ask at university. [00:45:15] So yeah, when you say but.

Payman Langroudi: But how do you teach it is my question, really, [00:45:20] how do you how do you teach that. Because that’s it’s really it’s very bespoke to the moment.

Barry Oulton: No, it’s super [00:45:25] bloody easy.

Payman Langroudi: Go on. So explain to me. So how do you make it click for someone [00:45:30] to, to have their focus a service rather than, you know, the usual thing. [00:45:35]

Barry Oulton: Okay. So first and foremost. Number one is it’s you have [00:45:40] to be completely focussed on the patient. Right. And so [00:45:45] it’s a layered approach. Number one is in order for your patient to make the best choice and [00:45:50] decision, they need to be in the best state that they could possibly be in. And [00:45:55] that’s an emotional state. I. I’m not keen on my patients making major decisions [00:46:00] when they’re in pain. Or when they are highly emotionally charged. Because [00:46:05] I believe that you will make very different decisions than when you are [00:46:10] in a positive state. Right. So firstly, I will do what I can to help my [00:46:15] patients be in a positive frame of mind. So I will build rapport. I’ll build rapport by [00:46:20] being like them physiologically. I’ll build rapport by particularly being like them with their [00:46:25] tonality. So if they speak slowly, I will speak slower. Why? Because [00:46:30] we like people who we are like, and the more I can be like them, or [00:46:35] the less I can be unlike them, the more comfortable they feel. Secondly, [00:46:40] I’m going to truly find out what’s important to them by asking specific questions. And [00:46:45] it’s not about today. It’s about it’s about 20 years and a day. Or if they’re 60, it’s [00:46:50] about ten years. And today. And so by asking a 20 year question, by future [00:46:55] pacing them. And let me ask you, if you don’t mind me asking Payman, how old are you?

Payman Langroudi: 50 [00:47:00] okay.

Barry Oulton: Two nice delay on the two. [00:47:05] So Payman, let me ask you right in 52. Right. [00:47:10] In terms of your dental health, in terms of [00:47:15] your dental health, in terms of your dental function and in terms of your dental appearance. [00:47:20] So those three things, right, your health, your function and your appearance. What’s important to you about [00:47:25] those three things in, let’s say, let’s say 20 years time, let’s [00:47:30] say Payman is 72. He’s fit. He’s healthy. [00:47:35] And let’s say that you are, you know, still doing elements [00:47:40] of what you’re doing. You’re loving life. What’s important to you at the age of 72, what’s [00:47:45] important to you about your Dental appearance, your dental health, and your dental function?

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, I can eat [00:47:50] my food. I can smile at my grandkids and so forth.

Barry Oulton: Okay, so [00:47:55] eat my food and smile at my grandkids so you can smile at your grandkids when you got teeth or not. So when you smile [00:48:00] at your grandkids. Tell me about the appearance of them at 72. Do [00:48:05] they look exactly as they are now? Are they? Are they healthy? And they do [00:48:10] they look fresh? Do they look good? Tell me.

Payman Langroudi: I hope they look [00:48:15] kind of near to what they look now.

Barry Oulton: Okay, great. So kind of. So does that mean to say, can I just [00:48:20] ask you, does that mean that right now you’re happy with the way that they look happy with the the position, [00:48:25] the orientation, the colour, the shape, the not chip, they’re not worn. They’re not damaged. Anything like that. [00:48:30] All good.

Payman Langroudi: Are you actually asking me because I recently had [00:48:35] a I recently had an accident.

Barry Oulton: Okay, so look [00:48:40] what I’ve done. If we think about it right, what I’ve done is I’ve. [00:48:45] The idea is you’re always playing with pictures and images [00:48:50] in people’s heads. And so what I want to do is if I just asked [00:48:55] you about today. Hi, how are your teeth? Any problems? You may have said I got a chip, [00:49:00] but you may have gone. No. Everything’s fine. I’m all right. But once I [00:49:05] future pace you and I ask you what’s important to you in 20 years time and what’s important [00:49:10] to you about those three things? That that allows me to then have a conversation with [00:49:15] you. If I see any signs of para function, bearing in mind, I think 95% of people para function. If [00:49:20] you para function, if you’re in the 95, which most people are, obviously, then [00:49:25] I’m going to talk to you about protecting your teeth, because if you want them to look as they are now para, functionally, [00:49:30] they’re never going to. So we would also talk about the fact that, you know, it’s worth [00:49:35] considering maintaining the whiteness of them. So it might be that you don’t want [00:49:40] to particularly go any whiter. But if you want to keep them as they are, I’m going to talk to you about a maintenance program [00:49:45] where you can maintain the whiteness by doing this initial [00:49:50] thing and then periodically keeping it topped up.

Barry Oulton: And so it starts to open up conversations [00:49:55] about other things. Right. It makes it super easy. This is [00:50:00] why people are I mean, I’ve got Andrew his incomes up 50%. Why? Because [00:50:05] he’s using simple, simple things that are easy to do that I teach him how to have [00:50:10] the conversation with a new patient and an existing patient. He goes away and does it. He comes back and he goes, [00:50:15] bloody hell, it worked. It’s like, yeah, it works, right? Because we’re all human beings. And when [00:50:20] you ask the right questions, you start to get the right answers. And I think at university, [00:50:25] you know, we were taught to be Dental firefighters. Our mission was to [00:50:30] find a fire in the mouth and put it out. And actually we weren’t taught [00:50:35] to sit down and say, you know what’s important to you? You know what’s important to you about this? How would [00:50:40] you like things to be? Let me find out a little bit more. And the worst thing that happens is [00:50:45] that you get an answer that goes, well, I don’t know nothing, I don’t care. Nobody [00:50:50] doesn’t not care.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah.

Barry Oulton: And so, you know [00:50:55] we end up giving that’s why we give three treatment plans immediate which is read preventative which is [00:51:00] orange and elective which is green. And I don’t mind whether people do the treatment or not. What [00:51:05] I mind is that they’ve been given the choice and been given the option so that they’re choosing what’s [00:51:10] right for them. Now that to me is service. Invariably, though, 68% [00:51:15] of people say yes to the preventative treatment, which more [00:51:20] than doubles that that that productivity and that time which more than eight x’s [00:51:25] the profit because the fixed costs remain the same. So it has a significant effect [00:51:30] both on the patients are saying yes, they want it, I’m not pushing it. But then the [00:51:35] business just, you know, we quadrupled our turnover simply by [00:51:40] asking the right questions.

Payman Langroudi: That’s very interesting, man. Tell [00:51:45] me if we move on to darker times. I know we’ve talked about some dark times already, but. [00:51:50] We like to talk about errors on this pod. Yes. So from that [00:51:55] black box thinking, you know, we want to learn from each other’s errors rather [00:52:00] than having to all make them ourselves. What can you what comes to mind when I say clinical errors? [00:52:05] What can you think of? Oh God, I don’t know. So the first rather than the.

Barry Oulton: First [00:52:10] thing that jumps to mind, of course, was believing the, uh, man [00:52:15] who was acquiring practices for the corporate I sold to and [00:52:20] wasn’t a clinical error, but that was an error in judgement [00:52:25] of a human being and believing the BS that was that I was [00:52:30] told that’s I think that’s the biggest error in dentistry I’ve ever made. [00:52:35] Um, when it comes to clinical stuff, I’m a big fan, so I’ve, I’ve [00:52:40] just done a, a national tour for practice plan, and one of the things that I was presenting [00:52:45] as part of it was black box thinking and was, um, Matthew Said’s [00:52:50] brilliant book that draws a parallel between medicine and aviation [00:52:55] and this attitude of, you know, if we brought that into dentistry, if we brought that into [00:53:00] medicine, then it would be a phenomenal benefit to everybody, particularly the patients. [00:53:05] Um, and so I have this belief. One, one of the NLP presuppositions [00:53:10] is there is no such thing as failure, only feedback. And so [00:53:15] every problem that I’ve ever come across since learning NLP, [00:53:20] I’ve always reframed as a learning opportunity. And [00:53:25] actually I always see it as an opportunity to build raving fans and [00:53:30] knock my patient socks off. And I use that phrase, yes, I use that phrase a lot because [00:53:35] I think when something doesn’t go to plan. That’s one [00:53:40] of the opportunities to really increase the quality of service, because it’s [00:53:45] not so much that something doesn’t work. It’s how you behave when something doesn’t work, [00:53:50] it’s how you discuss it. I, I love a UFC [00:53:55] and that’s obviously not a scrap with Conor McGregor.

Barry Oulton: It’s an upfront contract. [00:54:00] Somebody once told me that a conversation before is [00:54:05] an explanation. A conversation afterwards is an excuse. And that’s [00:54:10] why I will have conversations beforehand with patients about, you know, [00:54:15] what may or may not happen or what may or may not work. I also, this is what I teach [00:54:20] my clients is I also want, where appropriate, I want [00:54:25] my patients to own the problem. It not be mine. Because let’s [00:54:30] let’s give an example. Right. Let’s give an example of a molar Endo. Um, [00:54:35] patient comes in to me for an upper left six. We know [00:54:40] that you know maybe and I love I’m a bit weird, right? I love all sorts of dentistry and I love doing [00:54:45] endo as well. And we know that maybe 35, 40% may have an extra buckle. So [00:54:50] they’ve got four canals. I want my patient to own their biology. So first [00:54:55] and foremost I talk about biology to them. And I say, you know unfortunately [00:55:00] your biology has tripped us up. And that’s why you’ve got the infection [00:55:05] in the tooth. And we know that biology trips us up. Otherwise we wouldn’t have colds and flu. We wouldn’t have [00:55:10] had this goddamn, you know, Corona. Um, that’s biology. [00:55:15] Now I am going to do my absolute level best to work with your biology in the very [00:55:20] best possible way to get the best result. And I know that when we do root [00:55:25] canal therapy, I’m going to look for the fourth canal. I’ve got a CT scan. I’ve got a microscope. [00:55:30]

Barry Oulton: I’m going to do my level best to look for that. Uh, I’m also going to do my best to fill these routes [00:55:35] to the very tip of the canal. And despite my best efforts, around about 5% [00:55:40] of these will not be successful. There’s a 95% success rate, which means [00:55:45] there’s a 5% failure rate. And if your biology trips us up [00:55:50] and maybe there’s an extra canal that we couldn’t see, or maybe there’s a little [00:55:55] tributary that comes off the side of a canal that we couldn’t see. If your biology trips us [00:56:00] up, then I’m going to suggest that we’ve got several options then of moving forward, and that could [00:56:05] be that you go and see the specialist, or it may even be that you end up having to lose [00:56:10] the tooth. So I’ll have a conversation that to a degree [00:56:15] where it’s appropriate, I will talk about the fact that it’s biology that fails. [00:56:20] It’s not me, it’s not the dentistry and it’s not them. It’s [00:56:25] a third party called their biology. And they’re able to separate their thoughts [00:56:30] and feelings about the dentistry and me to the fact that biology can screw us over sometimes [00:56:35] and not everything works. Whereas most dentists and most [00:56:40] dentists patients put the onus of responsibility onto the dentist for [00:56:45] them when things don’t work. And firstly, I don’t think that’s fair [00:56:50] for a lot of the time. You know, if I flat out made a mistake, if I [00:56:55] let’s, God forbid, that I’d ever done anything like this. But let’s say [00:57:00] I misread notes and I took the wrong tooth out for orthodontic reasons. [00:57:05]

Barry Oulton: Somebody somewhere on the planet has done that. They must have done. You [00:57:10] know, you can’t blame biology for that, right? You’ve at that [00:57:15] stage, I guess you’ve probably got to put your hands up and you’ve got to say, do you know what? I got it wrong. [00:57:20] I need to make make it good. And I need, you know, I need to learn from this. And [00:57:25] for me, then it’s a case of how how do we learn from this? How do we improve this? How do we prevent this [00:57:30] from happening again? And so I treat every single one as a [00:57:35] every single issue that I’ve ever had, maybe as a, an opportunity to knock their socks off [00:57:40] and really make, make good. And I’ve found that when we do that, they [00:57:45] become our best referrers better than the people that love me. Is that somebody where [00:57:50] we’ve handled a situation where they’re unhappy and we’ve handled it well, they walk away [00:57:55] with feeling a greater sense of reciprocity, a greater sense of trust. [00:58:00] To the practice as a whole, so I don’t I [00:58:05] feel that I don’t shy away. From any issues or any concerns because [00:58:10] handled in the right way, they can be turned around into something hugely positive. I don’t see as a [00:58:15] problem. So I this is another thing that we do right when I share with people language. So internal [00:58:20] language talk about the triad of your physiology, your what you focus [00:58:25] on, on the language that you use. You can change.

Payman Langroudi: Yeah. But Barry, before you go, before you go any further, [00:58:30] before you go any further, I’m looking for something that went wrong. Yeah. Specifically the [00:58:35] story that you gave. I don’t know, I don’t know. I don’t know if that actually happened to you or not with the molar [00:58:40] or whatever. Yeah. But that that the way you explain that I definitely.

Barry Oulton: Had a everything’s gone very well. Didn’t [00:58:45] work. I’ve definitely had a molar endo that failed after about 18 months. [00:58:50]

Payman Langroudi: But but not not. What I’m saying is somewhere where you. Maybe the way to think about [00:58:55] this question is your most difficult patient.

Barry Oulton: Oh, my most difficult patient.

Payman Langroudi: Was yeah [00:59:00] where communication broke down rather than rather than where communication was perfect the way you were [00:59:05] saying.

Barry Oulton: Yeah. Well, firstly, it’s never perfect. We’re always doing our best. Right. We’re communication [00:59:10] broke down is without a shadow of a doubt, a recent situation [00:59:15] where a lady who’s English is a [00:59:20] second language, and there was a clear miscommunication [00:59:25] and misunderstanding between what she [00:59:30] wanted to have done, what she said she wanted to have done afterwards, and what she [00:59:35] had elected to have done at the time. And so she had [00:59:40] chosen. So what.

Payman Langroudi: Was it? What was it? What was it? Yeah.

Barry Oulton: So she elected [00:59:45] to have the lower left five crowned at the same time as the six. And [00:59:50] she’d signed the estimates and she’d agreed to it. And there on two separate estimates. [00:59:55] And then because she para functions, which [01:00:00] I knew and she had said she was wearing a [01:00:05] night time guard, but she wasn’t. It created sensitivity in [01:00:10] both of the teeth, which is usual until you’ve maybe dialled it in or, you know, protected [01:00:15] her. And the bottom line is she then flagged saying that she never wanted the five [01:00:20] in the first place. And so that’s a situation that [01:00:25] I’m in, a I’m in a position of thinking, well, you know, I’ve got a [01:00:30] question our systems now because if we’ve colour coded it and we’ve done everything we can, [01:00:35] and she’s claiming that she never wanted it in the first place. What did I miss. Where did that [01:00:40] go wrong? At what point did we not hear her. Because if she genuinely [01:00:45] didn’t want it, we have missed something. And so it’s then looking back. And honestly, [01:00:50] even when I reflect back on that, I can’t think of where we got [01:00:55] something wrong. But we clearly got something wrong because she was not a happy [01:01:00] bunny at the end of it. Now we’ve adjusted. We’ve done everything we needed to. We’ve done everything [01:01:05] we can do. But she she is one of a very few and a very rare, [01:01:10] rare person that has gone. I don’t want to see him again. So [01:01:15] I think even though, you know, I teach communication, it doesn’t make it completely [01:01:20] flawless. It doesn’t make it that you don’t get the odd situation that you, of [01:01:25] course, turn in your, in your, in your bed thinking, Jesus Christ, what can I have done better [01:01:30] there?

Payman Langroudi: But what did you do? Did you give her money back? I actually.

Barry Oulton: Did, what did.

Payman Langroudi: You do?

Barry Oulton: I [01:01:35] gave her, I gave her a complete refund. For all of the work. [01:01:40]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, not. Not just. And yet. And yet she doesn’t want to see you anymore. That’s the [01:01:45] that’s the the painful part. Well, I you know.

Barry Oulton: I have to I have [01:01:50] to.

Payman Langroudi: I get it, I get it, I get it. Yeah.

Barry Oulton: I’ve got to accept that. And that’s, it’s a shame because I pride [01:01:55] myself on being able to handle almost all those situations with a win. But [01:02:00] now and again, you know, whether it’s a personal personality clash [01:02:05] or whether it’s just a, you know, maybe she just took an absolute potentially [01:02:10] I mean, she, she seemed to really like me but then took an absolute dislike. We don’t know [01:02:15] what the conversations were at home with with her other half. I mean, you don’t [01:02:20] know what goes on. Right. And so yeah, you know, sometimes you’ve just gotta take [01:02:25] it. I can sit with my hand on my heart and say, I truly believe I did my best. And [01:02:30] then I guess sometimes it just ain’t going to work out with everybody.

Payman Langroudi: And [01:02:35] Barry, you know, the running a practice, running a successful business, especially [01:02:40] as, you know, a business like yours 25 years, [01:02:45] it’s gone from, you know, where it was to when you sold it. Things are changing [01:02:50] all the time in, in that process, right? I mean, I see it as myself with with ours, [01:02:55] like, you set a new target and it’s almost scary for everyone, including me. And [01:03:00] then years later, you look back and think, God, I was scared of that target, you know, [01:03:05] like, but what what are some hints you would give some, some tips and hints around [01:03:10] team’s recruitment keeping people happy. I find one of [01:03:15] the things in Dental practices is a real issue is that progression is quite difficult. It’s quite. There’s [01:03:20] loads of dentists who say things to me like, I want a nurse who doesn’t want to progress, [01:03:25] which is awful in a way, isn’t it? That’s the kind of person you want.

Barry Oulton: Yeah, [01:03:30] I’ve I’ve always been keen on your thoughts. I’ve always been keen on people that do [01:03:35] want to progress. I, I see it as a compliment when they leave. So I’ve had [01:03:40] three hygienists leave, two of them to go and become dentists. [01:03:45] Um, and one of them I support now she’s in her final year at Leeds, [01:03:50] and then I had another hygienist leave where I supported her and helped [01:03:55] her in buying and setting up her own practice. Now, what that does bring is it brings [01:04:00] the issue of having to recruit again. But I find [01:04:05] that the sense of achievement and the sense of community and the [01:04:10] building of that relationship is far stronger than having somebody that doesn’t [01:04:15] want to progress, because I genuinely believe that I got [01:04:20] so much more out of those people when they worked with me than I would have done [01:04:25] if I’d have kept somebody that that didn’t want to progress. And so I’m [01:04:30] surrounded by people that want to progress. I think the benefit of people being [01:04:35] uniquely different is that they want to progress at different rates. [01:04:40] So I’ve got a dental nurse I’m working with that kind of wants [01:04:45] to just stay where she is for the next few years. But I’m still supporting [01:04:50] him progressing because she’s done her impressions. She’s just [01:04:55] qualified in her radiography. She is now doing more treatment, [01:05:00] presentation, and so she’s progressing within that role and upskilling herself, [01:05:05] which means that when she’s ready maybe to step out of that particular role, [01:05:10] she’s got a skill set that will allow her to to move maybe into management or, [01:05:15] or TCO or or whatever, or even I’ve got a dental nurse [01:05:20] that I’m encouraging to go to hygiene therapy school down in Portsmouth. [01:05:25]

Barry Oulton: Um, but yeah, it presents the fact that you’ve got to recruit. I [01:05:30] have a second belief, and I guess having it’s your beliefs that support you, right? My belief is that [01:05:35] by having a progressive attitude and supporting people, then you attract those sort of people. [01:05:40] And I’ve been really blessed with the people that I’ve worked with. [01:05:45] Some. I mean, Claire’s been with me now for 24 years, and she’s done [01:05:50] she’s done all the roles, she’s done everything. But yeah, recruitment [01:05:55] has been an issue in dentistry for a number of years. And. But I also [01:06:00] find that, you know, we help. We’ve got 100% success rate in recruiting associates for [01:06:05] our clients at the moment because we do it differently. And I’m, you know, I’m proud of [01:06:10] that because. You know, a practice that is running the systems that we introduce [01:06:15] is becoming more attractive to an associate that has done my training with me, because they know [01:06:20] that they can serve their patients and make a make a really good income and [01:06:25] have a lot of fun along the way. So marrying those people up is becoming, um, is becoming [01:06:30] more regular and actually really enjoyable. So I think recruitment for the right sort [01:06:35] of practices is not as hard. But I also think location is [01:06:40] a big deal. I’ve got I’ve got practices that are on a coast, and so their pool [01:06:45] and their area to pull from is considerably smaller. It’s [01:06:50] tricky for some people. It’s without a doubt it’s a hard thing, but I think by supporting [01:06:55] the team and creating that environment, you attract a different sort of employee. [01:07:00]

Payman Langroudi: And then what’s your advice to dentists [01:07:05] when they’re thinking of going from NHS to private? Do [01:07:10] you start with the mindset piece?

Barry Oulton: Well, firstly it’s about finding out [01:07:15] why they want to go because the obvious thing you would think [01:07:20] is money. But it’s not. It’s not often the money. I’ve got top money. I’ve got a number [01:07:25] of clients where the money is irrelevant, and that’s the sort of client that I really like, [01:07:30] right? What I like is that it’s about service and that what they want is they want [01:07:35] to be able to improve the quality of the service. They want to improve the [01:07:40] time that they’re with the patient. So first and foremost, it’s finding out why do they want to exit. [01:07:45] And then it is about reframing and helping them reframe it. Because I think a lot of dentists that are [01:07:50] in the NHS struggle with the idea of leaving the NHS because of their sense of [01:07:55] service and their sense of being part of something that they’re providing for people [01:08:00] that they believe may not be able to afford their private fees. And, and [01:08:05] I you know, I believe that there is a demand [01:08:10] and a need for a core service. I believe that it’s been it’s been damaged [01:08:15] and broken for many, many years. But I believe that if if there was a [01:08:20] better way of working it out, it wouldn’t be the way that it’s been run right now. [01:08:25]

Barry Oulton: And I think that is 100% not the fault of the dentist. [01:08:30] It’s not the fault of us. It’s the fault of the providers of that system. So [01:08:35] it’s successive governments. So how do I help them? I support them in [01:08:40] understanding what their real motive is, and then how I can help [01:08:45] them to reframe in their heads the fact that. They can probably do more of [01:08:50] what it is they really want to do, which is improve their quality in their service. If they [01:08:55] are not doing as much NHS now, that might be for them that they don’t do any NHS. [01:09:00] But there’s a lot of a lot of clients that I’ve got. Don’t want to completely [01:09:05] quit the NHS because they believe in being able to provide a service to people that can’t afford [01:09:10] otherwise. So then it’s a case of supporting them and perhaps reducing their commitment to the [01:09:15] NHS and upping their their ability to, to provide private [01:09:20] dentistry, but do it in a way. That enables them [01:09:25] to be very successful as a business as well, because at the end of the day, it’s a business. You’ve [01:09:30] got to make profit, you’ve got to be able to to pay everybody, and you’ve got to be able to turn the lights [01:09:35] on.

Payman Langroudi: Barry, as a as a coach, you come across different types of dentists. [01:09:40] So here we are, April 24th. What’s what’s [01:09:45] going on out there? What are the new conversations out there that are different [01:09:50] now than they were before? What’s what’s the current state of play that you can see?

Barry Oulton: I think [01:09:55] you’re right. I think there are. I think there’s a huge wave at the moment [01:10:00] of younger dentists. Coming out with [01:10:05] high aspirations. Of a [01:10:10] belief that. What they really want to do is ortho bonding, [01:10:15] whitening, cosmetics. And I think a lot of them [01:10:20] end up somewhat disappointed with the reality of what’s going on, which is fundamentally, [01:10:25] there’s a lot of general dentistry that underpins all of that that must [01:10:30] be done. That has to be done. I believe that I’m seeing and forgive. If anybody is [01:10:35] upset by what I’m about to say. I think I’m seeing an awful lot of young dentists qualifying [01:10:40] with very little true hands on experience. With very little [01:10:45] understanding and nurturing in how to handle [01:10:50] the conversations and the communications with patients. It’s [01:10:55] more focussed on the dentistry and the teeth, and even then they’re coming out [01:11:00] of uni with very little experience of doing dentistry [01:11:05] on human beings. And I think that really undermines them. [01:11:10] And actually they, you know, they end up somewhat, um, [01:11:15] scared. I think there’s a lot of younger dentists at the moment practising, [01:11:20] um, you know, being very careful and avoiding certain bits of dentistry for [01:11:25] fear of being for fear of litigation. They call it defensive [01:11:30] dentistry, don’t they? So. I think that is, uh. I think that’s [01:11:35] commonplace. I’m seeing, uh, older dentists [01:11:40] who are toying with retiring and in certain areas, [01:11:45] finding it very difficult to realise the value of what they thought [01:11:50] their practice might be valued at because there are fewer people buying practices. [01:11:55]

Barry Oulton: I’m seeing overridingly. We, we think as a, as [01:12:00] a profession that corporates are huge and that they’re massive and that they own all [01:12:05] sorts. But actually as a percentage of the practices that are owned, corporates own [01:12:10] bugger all. And so the corporates are not as [01:12:15] big as people think they are in terms of relative ownership of practices. I [01:12:20] think independent practices are far higher in numbers, and [01:12:25] I think there’s a lot of unnecessary fear in the profession. [01:12:30] That is a shame, because I see a lot of dentists that don’t enjoy [01:12:35] their dentistry. A good number that are thinking of getting out and changing [01:12:40] dentistry for something else. And I think that’s really sad because I, I [01:12:45] genuinely my mission is my one of my taglines is I help dentists fall [01:12:50] back in love with dentistry. And I think that if you approach it from [01:12:55] a place of service. So you you brought my phrase up. You know, my aim [01:13:00] is to not my patients socks off. And that’s what I open up with a new patient. And I say to them, [01:13:05] you know, my job is is simple. I’ve got one thing to do. And that is my aim is to knock your [01:13:10] socks off. My aim is to make sure that you have the best dental experience [01:13:15] than you’ve ever had. Uh, and that’s what I set the bar at for me, [01:13:20] is to make sure that they have the best experience possible, regardless of the dentistry, [01:13:25] because, you know, anybody can do the dentistry, really.

Barry Oulton: You know, anybody could [01:13:30] get anybody in to do the dentistry, but it’s how you deliver that. It’s, you know, the [01:13:35] inject. So the injection technique that I designed, um, I think, [01:13:40] you know, we’re teaching undergraduates the wrong things. Not all the right things, I should say. [01:13:45] We’re not teaching them the wrong things. I don’t think they’re being taught all of the right things. And [01:13:50] so I think there’s a group of older dentists maybe thinking and struggling to see how [01:13:55] they can exit and get the value out of their 30 years of hard graft, [01:14:00] of being business owners. I think there’s a young, a wave of young dentists who [01:14:05] are full of and there’s a good handful that are overconfident, [01:14:10] that are full of confidence in their capabilities and then maybe struggling [01:14:15] to deliver what it is that they believe they can. But I think overwhelmingly, there’s a [01:14:20] wave of younger dentists that are just very worried about coming in to a profession where they’re told they’re [01:14:25] going to get sued and they’re going to get struck off. And I think the GDC plays [01:14:30] a huge part into that with some of their behaviours and the way that they treat people. And [01:14:35] so I think there’s a lot of fear out there, which is a real shame.

Payman Langroudi: Although I had I had Linda [01:14:40] Cruz on recently and he was saying, we don’t need to worry about the GDC anywhere near as much [01:14:45] as we used to have to worry about the GDC maybe five, six years ago. He [01:14:50] was he was saying that things are getting a lot better in that respect. So I think, you know, it’s funny because that [01:14:55] story hasn’t gone out. No. Yeah, yeah. Um, a [01:15:00] lot of young dentists haven’t heard. I mean, I hadn’t heard it before he told me that. So, you know, [01:15:05] that’s that’s one of them. I’m sure that really stresses people. Yeah. We’re coming to the end of our time. [01:15:10] Um, very, um, I’m going to end it with the usual questions. [01:15:15] Fantasy dinner party?

Barry Oulton: Yes. [01:15:20]

Payman Langroudi: Three guests.

Barry Oulton: Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Dead or alive.

Barry Oulton: So, [01:15:25] um, top of the list, uh, [01:15:30] without a shadow of a doubt would be, um, my mum. Um, [01:15:35] because I was and am and always [01:15:40] have been. A mummy’s boy and my mum [01:15:45] are very unexpectedly passed away without [01:15:50] any. Yeah. Just very suddenly my mum passed away, um, [01:15:55] probably five years ago. It feels like yesterday still, but it’s probably five years ago. [01:16:00] Yeah. There or thereabouts, uh, from a bleed on the brain. And it was very quick [01:16:05] and it was very unexpected. So I would love to have dinner with my mum. Well, [01:16:10] I would love to have. I really would enjoy to have dinner with Tony Robbins. I [01:16:15] have, yeah, I think 90% [01:16:20] of what I’ve done with him and I’ve, you know, I’ve met him. Um, and I’m, I’m [01:16:25] still part of his crew. I’m with him for, you know, five, five [01:16:30] days as of Thursday. But I’d love to be I’d love to have dinner with him. And, [01:16:35] uh, an odd one, because I just think he is one of the most interesting, [01:16:40] articulate and funny guys is I would love to have dinner with [01:16:45] Ricky Gervais. Um, yeah, I think [01:16:50] I think the way that he is not, I just, I think he’s, [01:16:55] you know, when he, when he really starts to, to talk about theology and stuff like that, I find him [01:17:00] fascinating because I resonate with his beliefs, but he’s just so articulate [01:17:05] and he’s so able to to do that. It’s um. Yeah, he’s great. So yeah, my [01:17:10] mum Tony Robbins and Ricky Gervais.

Payman Langroudi: Nice. And the final question, [01:17:15] it’s a deathbed on your on your deathbed, three pieces of advice to [01:17:20] your loved ones. What would they be? Um.

Barry Oulton: Oh [01:17:25] my God. My deathbed. Three pieces of advice. [01:17:30] And that is. It’s about. It’s about. Everything [01:17:35] is about relationships. Everything is about nurturing. [01:17:40] Those relationships that truly mean the most to you doesn’t necessarily mean family, right? [01:17:45] You can’t pick your family. Um, but I would I would encourage [01:17:50] people to be part of a community. I think what’s lacking in the [01:17:55] world over is community. And I think if we really focussed [01:18:00] on and I think maybe that’s why I really love doing what I’m doing [01:18:05] at the moment, because it’s putting together a small group of people in a community [01:18:10] that are supporting one another, that are sharing their journeys, even though they’re all on slightly different [01:18:15] journeys. Some are just started with their practice, some are wanting to exit. So number one is be part [01:18:20] of be part of a community and choose them wisely.

Payman Langroudi: Listen to your loved [01:18:25] ones like that.

Barry Oulton: Number [01:18:30] two, that remember that the language that you label things [01:18:35] determines your reality. So if you can take what you see as a problem [01:18:40] and you can change it into a challenge and then change it into an opportunity, when [01:18:45] you see a situation as an opportunity, you have a whole different set of [01:18:50] of things ahead of you than if you see it as a problem. There is no such thing as a problem. You [01:18:55] might think it is in the in the moment, and then you change it and you label it as an opportunity [01:19:00] and all sorts of doors open up. So I would say turn [01:19:05] a problem into an opportunity and everything will be okay because there’s always a [01:19:10] solution.

Payman Langroudi: Brilliant. There’s been a massive pleasure.

Barry Oulton: I thoroughly [01:19:15] enjoyed it. You’ve asked some really interesting questions for me that have that have really made [01:19:20] me think, and I appreciate that very much.

Payman Langroudi: You know, it’s, you know, how I often [01:19:25] think people at their biggest sort of strength is also their biggest vulnerability. [01:19:30] And and I think with you, you’re someone who wears your heart on your sleeve. It’s the best [01:19:35] thing about you. And it also leaves you vulnerable, you know? Yeah. It’s one of those things. I’m open. [01:19:40]

Barry Oulton: To that. I’m open to that. It’s, um, it’s one thing that my dad said, you know, when somebody says to [01:19:45] you, you know, the problem with you, Barry, is and you think, oh, here we go. My dad, when [01:19:50] I was a kid around about 12 years old, my dad said, you know the problem with you, Barry? [01:19:55] I was like, oh, here we go. What’s that? He went, you love everybody until they shit on you. [01:20:00] And I went, well don’t you? And he went, no. I was like, oh. And I think [01:20:05] that is it is that I start out where I just see the good in people. And I [01:20:10] just believe that people are fundamentally good and behaviour does not dictate [01:20:15] them. And so, yeah, I think you wear your heart on your sleeve and you might get a [01:20:20] little, little dumping on now and again, but hey, it’s an opportunity.

Payman Langroudi: It’s [01:20:25] been a lovely conversation I really enjoyed. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much. Really appreciate.

Barry Oulton: It mate. You look after yourself. [01:20:30]

Payman Langroudi: Thank you buddy.

[VOICE]: This is Dental Leaders, [01:20:35] the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in [01:20:40] dentistry. Your hosts. Payman [01:20:45] Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Prav Solanki: Thanks for listening, guys. [01:20:50] If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me [01:20:55] and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to say and what our guest has had [01:21:00] to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

Payman Langroudi: If you did get some value out of it, think [01:21:05] about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think might [01:21:10] get some value out of it too. Thank you so so, so much for listening. Thanks.

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