Sarita Stephanie: It’s a societal problem, you know, like, it’s not that we want women [00:00:05] want to not be taken seriously or don’t ask for a pay rise. It’s a societal problem [00:00:10] that we have in our mind that, okay, I get I get a job, it’s okay enough for [00:00:15] me. You know, like we never brought into the position for centuries now to ask for more [00:00:20] while men do, you know, like we it will take years before we overcome this. [00:00:25] It’s happening, but it will take years. Because before we overcome this, and, you know, [00:00:30] like, now, if I offer a job to somebody, then negotiate with me. I will tell you, like, really? You have [00:00:35] to negotiate with me.

[VOICE]: This [00:00:45] is mind movers. Moving the conversation forward [00:00:50] on mental health and optimisation for dental professionals. Your [00:00:55] hosts Rhona Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Rhona Eskander: Hi [00:01:00] everyone. Welcome back to another episode [00:01:05] of Mind Movers. Today we have the incredible Syreeta Stephanie, [00:01:10] who I am privileged to call my friend. I originally met her through Doctor Mahi, who I’m sure a lot of [00:01:15] you know who runs global dental Collective. Sweet is my favourite one. Jo King Mahi loves [00:01:20] you. Um, but Syreeta is an absolute force and we connected immediately [00:01:25] when we met because everything that Syreeta is about is something I really stand for within [00:01:30] female empowerment. She is an incredible mother and entrepreneur, [00:01:35] um, and just an absolute star in her own right. So welcome Syreeta.

Sarita Stephanie: Hey thank [00:01:40] you Rona. That’s very kind of you.

Rhona Eskander: I know we had a bond when we first met. Syreeta even said she was just like, Rona’s [00:01:45] my favourite dentist. So here we go.

Payman Langroudi: When did you first meet?

Rhona Eskander: Was it at the. I can’t [00:01:50] remember, maybe. Like. I think it was like a couple of years ago. No, it.

Sarita Stephanie: Was at your Christmas, your [00:01:55] family Christmas party, you know.

Rhona Eskander: Christmas. And obviously everyone was like crushing being like, who is that? Like gorgeous couple, [00:02:00] you know, and mercy and to walk through the door. So anyways, love at first sight. We became closer than [00:02:05] me and Mahi. So it’s all good and the rest is history.

Payman Langroudi: We start this podcast with how did Rona meet the guest? Just [00:02:10] the normal because he.

Rhona Eskander: Thinks I have such an array of friends. Like he’s like, how do you know this [00:02:15] person? No.

Sarita Stephanie: No, you’re just a very good vibe and good energy and people get attracted to you. [00:02:20] Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Thank you. Okay, so Syreeta, the first thing is, is that I love to [00:02:25] start from the very beginning right now, so that people that are listening know. The reason why I invited [00:02:30] Syreeta is because she runs an incredible female platform [00:02:35] female business for egg freezing, and I was somebody that was an early adopter of egg freezing. [00:02:40] We had my dad on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about this, because he sat me down when I was 32 [00:02:45] and barely anyone was talking about it. He tried to have the conversation and people got really defensive. Some [00:02:50] people even got offended by the conversation. But before we go into your business, [00:02:55] can you tell us a little bit about who you are, how what career [00:03:00] you were doing before and a little bit about your background? Sure.

Sarita Stephanie: So I am Italian. [00:03:05] I was born and raised in Venice. I spent all my life [00:03:10] there. Then when I was 18, I moved to Milan. I actually studied history of art, so my [00:03:15] background is very artsy. Then I moved to London so that everybody was making money [00:03:20] in the finance space. So I decided, okay, that’s where I had to be. And I did [00:03:25] a master’s in finance, starting from scratch in English and everything. So it was quite challenging [00:03:30] as I haven’t even completed my master’s at Westminster in Finance, [00:03:35] that I got a job into the biggest brokerage firm in the world, worked [00:03:40] there for three years. He it was horrible, [00:03:45] the worst time of my life, the shittiest job somebody could have probably been a broker in. [00:03:50] Uh. Sorry, guys, but that’s true in a big brokerage firm, especially if you are a girl [00:03:55] in a trading floor with a thousand dudes. It was terrible. But [00:04:00] I always say that from there, I learned to how to be in an arena with lions [00:04:05] so and fight back. So there was a very good training for me. From there, [00:04:10] circumstances took me to work in the healthcare space, so I [00:04:15] started to work for many years after that into the big data [00:04:20] for pharmaceutical companies, biotech life science industry, which [00:04:25] is the biggest love of my life. So um, then from there, I then started Amelis. [00:04:30] I actually did an incubator that helped me a little bit to quit my very high paid job and [00:04:35] decided to do The Founder Life. And then I met my co-founder, [00:04:40] Yasmin on the way, and we started Amelie’s through our personal [00:04:45] fertility journey.

Rhona Eskander: Amazing. So there’s lots to unpack there. Now. First of all, working [00:04:50] in finance as a female, was that very you said it’s like working with a pack of lions. Would [00:04:55] you say that’s because of the way that you were treated, or do you think it’s just because the job entailed [00:05:00] you to come with sort of like a very masculine energy to the job?

Sarita Stephanie: There are [00:05:05] some elements to it, to to it. So I was [00:05:10] very good at my job and it was never enough [00:05:15] because I was because of I was one of the few girls on the trading floor. I had to fight [00:05:20] double and make double to just even being seen against like all of these [00:05:25] guys on the trading floor. So that was like very, very they prompt me to work more, [00:05:30] to do more and stuff. And then I became a bit more aggressive. And also I [00:05:35] would say when you are basically like in a very [00:05:40] male dominated environment, you start to act a bit [00:05:45] like a guy, you know, like like you start to like, okay, so yeah, let’s go out tonight and get [00:05:50] smashed. Okay. Yeah, you go with it because you have to somehow to survive. [00:05:55] So yeah, there were some elements to it that, you know, for survival have to. Be. [00:06:00] Do more. Be more. Be there earlier and everything. But at the same time also I [00:06:05] had to produce more than any other guy that was around me to earn their respect, because otherwise [00:06:10] they would have walked over me. Um.

Payman Langroudi: And you’d imagine in these situations [00:06:15] when you say you’re good at your job, it means you make more money than the next man. So [00:06:20] isn’t that what they’re looking at, how much money you’re making? Yeah, I.

Sarita Stephanie: Was not even making more money than any other [00:06:25] man because, uh, you know, sometimes, you know, it was, um, I had to do double [00:06:30] to be at the same level. So, you know, there’s some, um, something that I’m very big [00:06:35] advocate is that also, like equality at the working space is not the same [00:06:40] also in terms of salaries. Well, this.

Rhona Eskander: Is going to say I was just about to say the gender pay gap, which we’ve discussed [00:06:45] before, is the thing. I recently discovered that in dentistry there’s gender pay gap stuff, which [00:06:50] I thought was weird because I was like, well, associates and self-employed. I don’t know, it was weird. I just saw some [00:06:55] statistics. But I think what people say is like, for example, is that less females are likely [00:07:00] to own a practice. Less females are likely to do. I listen, I’m going off. The stats were shown. [00:07:05] I’m fine. I’m a boss woman. I own my own practice. We know that you know that. But [00:07:10] gender pay gap is a thing in the UK. If it was.

Payman Langroudi: Real, you’d only hire women, [00:07:15] wouldn’t we? And I’ve got 43 employees. 20 of them are men. Why wouldn’t I just hire [00:07:20] women if they’re cheaper?

Sarita Stephanie: No, but it’s real. Like in a big corporation. [00:07:25]

Payman Langroudi: In a women only.

Sarita Stephanie: Women in a big corporations, they don’t even display the salary [00:07:30] like it’s a fact in the in the corporate that was working before, I [00:07:35] was not able to disclose my salary to my colleagues because their salary [00:07:40] was double my salary. A lot of.

Payman Langroudi: Companies say that a lot of companies. No, no.

Sarita Stephanie: It’s it’s like it’s statistical. [00:07:45]

Payman Langroudi: You see what I’m saying? If, if, if, if it’s true that you can pay a woman less to do the same.

Rhona Eskander: Thing she’s saying, so.

Payman Langroudi: Why [00:07:50] wouldn’t they?

Rhona Eskander: Why wouldn’t you just.

Payman Langroudi: Hire women.

Rhona Eskander: And women? Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Why were there so many men there? They should hire [00:07:55] all women.

Sarita Stephanie: It’s also statistical proven that when you present a job to [00:08:00] a woman that has, I don’t know, 50 K salary per year, I’m just saying she will accept [00:08:05] it and men will negotiate like, it’s like statistically [00:08:10] proven as is. I don’t know why there’s in the UK government. I [00:08:15] don’t know, it’s just maybe something that we feel like okay, you know, like I, I [00:08:20] don’t deserve more like something in our minds. Okay. I’m content with that. So [00:08:25] now, you know, like I expect we are a female only team if anybody [00:08:30] doesn’t negotiate with me. Yeah. On purpose. Yes. I’m, um. Positively. [00:08:35] What was the word? Positive discriminating. I’m doing positive discrimination and I’m guilty. [00:08:40] Fuck it. I’m not. I don’t care. That’s how it is. I love her, that’s I [00:08:45] love that. That’s how it is. Also, there’s an element that, you know, like for the kind of business we’re doing [00:08:50] at the top of like the team, obviously we need to hire women [00:08:55] because they emphasise more with our mission and journey. Unless, you know, like there are very specific [00:09:00] cases which we haven’t met yet, we haven’t met yet cases of men, [00:09:05] or maybe they’re doing transgender or some changes there that emphasise [00:09:10] with the egg freezing and fertility mission. So it’s on purpose, both.

Payman Langroudi: Of your bosses. [00:09:15] I’m a boss, right. And it’s a sad truth of being a boss that the people who ask [00:09:20] for pay rises get pay rises more than people who don’t ask for pay [00:09:25] rises.

Rhona Eskander: I don’t know, like, listen to me. In my clinic everyone asks me for a pay rise, but I also. And every five [00:09:30] minutes. But like everyone. Yeah, everyone. Everywhere all the time. And the problem is as [00:09:35] well. Because what I have struggled with and unfortunately, like I think this is being a [00:09:40] female founder, which I will talk to, which will go on to Sarita, has been one of the biggest challenges in my [00:09:45] life. And I always thought to myself, naively, being a female founder, [00:09:50] if you assert your value and you are, you [00:09:55] know, you don’t have to go with aggressive work tactics, you can still [00:10:00] gain respect from your colleagues and your peers. But I’m actually wrong because also, like you said, [00:10:05] you have on purpose with the fact, with the business that you’ve built, you [00:10:10] have employed a lot of amazing, empowered females. In my job, I [00:10:15] didn’t do that in my clinic. You know, in any other businesses that I’ve been involved with, I just [00:10:20] kind of like had a team and I was like, oh, this is the way it is. And then I really understood the difficulties and the [00:10:25] power dynamics and the way that I’m spoken to is actually very different from [00:10:30] my previous boss, who was an older man. And the things they [00:10:35] say to me, the things they ask me, the way that they send messages, is completely different [00:10:40] than the way they spoke, because.

Payman Langroudi: You’re a woman.

Rhona Eskander: But I think it’s because but I have also found [00:10:45] it. And Sarita doesn’t have this problem. I’d like to have your input. I want to be liked. And [00:10:50] Jago said to me the other day, he said, get over it like you’re a boss. Like, not everyone’s [00:10:55] going to love you because sometimes I’m too afraid. So when people come and ask for. It’s [00:11:00] a go to Prav. I’m like, they’ve asked. And he goes, you don’t have to say yes. You know that. You don’t have [00:11:05] to say yes. But I find it a very difficult thing to assert my power. But also, have I been conditioned [00:11:10] as a woman to be nice and liked, which I don’t think you struggle with, but it’s certainly a struggle of mine.

Sarita Stephanie: But [00:11:15] I’ll tell you what I think about this. But also, like it’s a societal [00:11:20] problem, you know, like it’s not that we want women want to [00:11:25] not be taken seriously or don’t ask for a pay rise. It’s a societal problem that we have in our mind [00:11:30] that, okay, I get I get a job, it’s okay enough for me. You know, like we never [00:11:35] brought into the position for centuries now to ask for more while men do, you [00:11:40] know, like we it will take years before we overcome this. It’s happening, but it will [00:11:45] take years. Because before we overcome this, and, you know, like, now, if I offer a job [00:11:50] to somebody, then negotiate with me. I will tell you, like, really, you have to negotiate with me. Like, [00:11:55] for example, Dana, that, you know, like at the beginning we were like, okay, this is it. I’m like, no, I want more equities. [00:12:00] I want like a higher salary. I’m like, okay, yes. Like you get it, you know, like like just [00:12:05] because you ask you get it, you know, like and it’s fair, you know, it’s fair. But at [00:12:10] the end of the day, I don’t think it’s like we really want to I think it’s intrinsic [00:12:15] in our societal behaviour that we don’t go for more, we don’t ask for [00:12:20] more. I think it’s very intrinsic in how we behave right now as women. And [00:12:25] we are set back by by this, you know, like if you look at the statistic events that are like women [00:12:30] on the top of like big corporates, it’s increasing. Yes, but it’s still [00:12:35] very low. The numbers compared to men, which is, you know, we have a lot of work to do, but that’s how [00:12:40] it is.

Payman Langroudi: I’m not sure in my experience I’m not sure it’s a man woman issue. We have women who [00:12:45] ask and are very aggressive financially and we have men who don’t. Yeah. It’s [00:12:50] it’s it’s something that is I think it’s a character trait. And what I’m saying, as I [00:12:55] think as a teacher spawned that problem to go away in a way, somehow. Yeah. So you just think, oh, am I going [00:13:00] to lose this person? Yeah. Yeah. All of those things come into it. Um, but also.

Sarita Stephanie: Now there are some [00:13:05] rules around how, when you hire, I mean, maybe, you know, it’s, um, I’m not talking [00:13:10] in specific cases, but in a corporate, let’s say, for example, at [00:13:15] the brokerage firm I was working at, you have to when you interview [00:13:20] and you need new hires, you have to at least interview half women, half men, you [00:13:25] know, like, so like now some rules are coming up to it. You need [00:13:30] at least to interview half women, men, and then you offer the job to the most qualified candidate. [00:13:35] But you have to. So, you know, like so you offer to redress it a little. They’re trying to [00:13:40] redress this industry.

Payman Langroudi: Women women don’t don’t put themselves up as lecturers. [00:13:45]

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: But let me talk about this because I am somebody that has lived through this within [00:13:50] the Dental arena. So I don’t know if you know this. The majority of dentists are actually female. Like it’s marginal [00:13:55] difference, but I think 55% are females, right. So there’s a lot more females. [00:14:00] You look at some of the biggest institutions and academies within the dental arena, and [00:14:05] you never see women at the forefront. I spend my life challenging people and [00:14:10] big people, and I say to them, this is great. Why don’t you have a female on your panel? Why don’t you have a lecturer on your [00:14:15] panel? Why haven’t you had a female president? Do da da da da da da da. And I asked them all the time. I always ask them [00:14:20] and they get a little bit miffed. I’ve told the story before about [00:14:25] Christian Coachman. Didn’t I tell you this many years ago? So there was [00:14:30] something called like the Instagram Dental stars or something like that, and it had like some of the most [00:14:35] prominent dentists on it, and they sent me a message saying, oh, do you want to sign [00:14:40] up? And I said, this is really great, but you don’t have. It’s sad that in this day and age, you don’t have a single female on your panel. [00:14:45] And apparently my message got sent in the like, WhatsApp group of the male panellists, and [00:14:50] they were kind of like laughing at me.

Rhona Eskander: Christian turned around and he said, Keep Christian. Christian is like [00:14:55] one of the most respected dentists in the world. He turned around and goes, I know Rhona and she’s [00:15:00] got 100% a point. And they were like, yeah, well, we might put like a female lecturer next year. He goes, [00:15:05] no, no, no, you’re going to do it now and you’re going to put her on the panel with all of us. And I got it. Now [00:15:10] in terms of what you said you were, you don’t ask, you don’t get. So people are asked, do you see what I mean? [00:15:15] I made the point. But I think that it is really challenging because people don’t do [00:15:20] enough. And you might say, well, you know, you’ve just got to put yourself out there. But it’s the same way that we’ve got to create the opportunities. [00:15:25] I think you make it to black and white, like when Black Lives Matters happened. A people [00:15:30] then really, really positively integrated black people [00:15:35] into so many different things campaigns, workplaces, etc. and I think that was a really positive movement. [00:15:40] And yes, we should shine a spotlight on those people because for so many years [00:15:45] they weren’t given opportunities. And I think that that’s still to come in some elements for women across [00:15:50] the board. It’s my view. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: I mean, for sure there’s a lot of work to [00:15:55] do. And you know, like again, I think I’m positive biased, like. The one we have [00:16:00] that we hire like top, top of our executive team will be only [00:16:05] women. And it’s decided if people hate me for this, I don’t give a fuck. [00:16:10] Like, seriously, whatever. Like, you know, like on on your point. You know, like, [00:16:15] do you like me or don’t like me, I don’t care. It’s okay. You know, like, we keep head up. We’re going. [00:16:20] We we have very clear what’s our mission. If some people get offended by talking [00:16:25] about egg freezing, why you’re getting offended. Seriously? Like, why are you getting offended? [00:16:30] It’s creating options for women. It’s not for you. Okay, maybe it’s for the next one where we keep [00:16:35] closing doors to people that maybe, for example, I’m talking about, like freezing this case or fertility [00:16:40] preservation or other fertility treatments or fertility testing. Why [00:16:45] are we closing down options to other people? That is, maybe it’s not your problem, [00:16:50] but maybe it’s a problem of somebody else. It’s all about creating options nowadays. So. [00:16:55]

Rhona Eskander: So let’s take a step back. So tell us about I always struggle. Say, Amelia. [00:17:00] Amelia. Amelia. So first tell us about the name, how you came up with the name. And I want us to I [00:17:05] want you to tell us what the platform does.

Sarita Stephanie: Yes. So Emily’s, um, [00:17:10] means a meal. Sorry. A meal means mother in Elvish. And [00:17:15] at the beginning, you know, when we were trying to come up with a name, we we were trying to make [00:17:20] an association with the word mother in different languages. And, you know, obviously in the fertility space, [00:17:25] it was widely used. So we tried to be a little bit, uh, [00:17:30] more creative, but also, you know, like we wanted to add a touch of magic to it [00:17:35] to be more female sounding like so. And then we came up with families, [00:17:40] and what we do is we cover the fertility [00:17:45] preservation journey from the beginning to the end for women, from exploring [00:17:50] your options, understanding where you are at, testing with one [00:17:55] of our partner facilities across the UK to holding hands of [00:18:00] women that wants to start the treatment and then they get on board. And in one of our partner clinics across [00:18:05] the country, we’re building a lot of services around the egg freezing and [00:18:10] fertility testing options. So stay tuned. We have something new that will come up that will [00:18:15] open up the market a lot and make the treatment more affordable for women out [00:18:20] there that wants to test, simply understand their fertility or go [00:18:25] through the entire treatment. And uh, also, we are, uh, [00:18:30] doing a lot of work in the awareness space because just, you know, with a simple £50 [00:18:35] test that you can do with one of our partner facility around [00:18:40] the country, you can discover if you have underlying condition and you can take [00:18:45] very conscious decision and you can basically women out there, they can take empowered [00:18:50] decision. And everything around Emily’s is free for the patients. So every patient [00:18:55] can go on Emily’s, browse their options understanding through our [00:19:00] blogs what’s the treatment, what are the costs and so on. So everything is very transparent. [00:19:05]

Rhona Eskander: I love that.

Payman Langroudi: Explain what it is exactly.

Sarita Stephanie: The so when you go on Emily’s for [00:19:10] example, you can book one of our one of the fertility tests, which is called AMH. [00:19:15] That gives you an indication of where you are, you know, your burn reserve. That’s [00:19:20] much more to it, but it gives you essentially an idea on where you are [00:19:25] on your on your ovarian reserve. It’s not an indicator if you are [00:19:30] getting pregnant or not. It just gives you an idea of how long you have. Essentially, [00:19:35] once you do the test, what you can do through Emily’s is that you have 20 [00:19:40] minutes free chats with one of our partner clinics. We partner with Lister [00:19:45] Great Portland Equal Area. We are taking numbers also like a new clinic in [00:19:50] Manchester. And then we have another clinic coming on board in centre of London. [00:19:55] You can chat for free with one of their doctors. Let’s [00:20:00] say for example, you want you are looking at Lister or IB. Well, if [00:20:05] you want more boutique experience, you go in the platform, you book a free consultation [00:20:10] with a doctor or an embryologist of one of the first specialists that this clinic offers [00:20:15] for free to our Emily’s user.

Sarita Stephanie: And then you chat with them. You [00:20:20] can ask any question you want and then from there we onboard you. We just launch [00:20:25] our app. You will be able to track your your journey, your medication, your [00:20:30] ovulation times like period. Literally everything through the Emily’s app. [00:20:35] And this app was designed from women to women. Uh, my co-founder [00:20:40] Yasmin, is a software engineer from from Imperial with great knowledge [00:20:45] of health care products. So she’s the one that built it. We have an in-house designer, [00:20:50] too, another woman that designed the entire app. So it’s very, very, [00:20:55] very patient, friendly, user friendly build from women to women. And this [00:21:00] app is free also. So any patient even doing treatments in other hospitals [00:21:05] or clinics can use this app. We’re launching it at the end of this month, so [00:21:10] like this week or next week. And from there, you will also be [00:21:15] able soon to be able to track where you’re at, where your eggs are frozen, [00:21:20] if you want to use them, what you have to do and basically like the post process [00:21:25] of egg freezing.

Payman Langroudi: What led you to actually coming to this business? Did you have [00:21:30] fertility issues yourself or was that the reason?

Sarita Stephanie: So it’s an [00:21:35] interesting question because as soon as I turned 30, I started to be a bit of heart attacks [00:21:40] for, uh, not joking wise, not hearted real heart attacks. But I started to like anxiety. [00:21:45] Anxiety about what I’m going to do now. Like, seriously, I don’t want to have any kids soon. [00:21:50] Uh, I mean, a long terme relationship, but probably soon. I was getting married and, [00:21:55] you know, I was like, oh, he’s younger than me. And what I’m going to do and all [00:22:00] of these kind of things. So I was asking myself a lot of questions on really, when am I actually [00:22:05] going to have a kid? Am I going to have a kid? So I basically [00:22:10] had this conversation with my husband now that at the time maybe we were not even engaged or something, [00:22:15] and we decided that I should we should have looked at fertility preservation [00:22:20] option. You have to consider that May. His father, uh, is [00:22:25] a fertility expert. He has a clinic. He’s a gynaecologist and has a clinic in Spain. [00:22:30] So as soon as he met me, the first meeting with [00:22:35] my father in law, he was like, I think you should freeze your eggs. Literally.

Rhona Eskander: That’s such a middle eastern thing. Like Payman [00:22:40] met my dad. My dad sat me down at 31 and was like, time to freeze [00:22:45] the eggs. I was like, today, like literally.

Sarita Stephanie: Same, same. He was like, he met me. [00:22:50] He was like. Like we were talking a month in New Zealand, a month here, mom. There. I was like, sorry, [00:22:55] um, I think we should freeze your eggs. I’m like, why are you even talking to me about this? Seriously? [00:23:00] Like, I’m 28, 29, whatever. I’m so young, like, uh uh, you’re not that young, like, [00:23:05] whatever. And from that process to actually, when I froze my eggs, I was like 32. [00:23:10] So I froze my eggs at 32 years old, [00:23:15] just turned 32. And, um, that really had a lot of anxiety from me and [00:23:20] considered that, again, I was like in a long terme relationship, you know, so I was [00:23:25] kind of like, okay, this guy for sure is going to be the father of my kid one day. And yeah, [00:23:30] I froze my eggs. I saw that the process was unnecessarily difficult. [00:23:35] And then even if I had a lot of support and I was surrounded by [00:23:40] gynaecologists, I was still alone, injecting myself, you know, like [00:23:45] trying to feel like what’s going on with my body, I feel bloated. Am I about to [00:23:50] am I about to die? Am I surviving? What’s going on? I feel like this. I feel like that I’m having [00:23:55] discharge and this is this normal? Is this not normal? You know, like, so like you’re basically go through [00:24:00] the process and it’s still very much unknown.

Sarita Stephanie: Like you walk blindly into a [00:24:05] treatment that you’re like, okay, uh, why I never knew about my fertility. [00:24:10] And to be fair, before that moment, I didn’t even know if I could have a child. [00:24:15] I never tested my fertility. I didn’t absolutely anything like I could be like, [00:24:20] maybe I infertile. Don’t know, maybe my window was already closed. I don’t know, you know, because [00:24:25] we don’t talk about this. You know, we always think, oh, I’m healthy. I could have a child. No, it’s not exactly. [00:24:30] It doesn’t really work like this. Or even my periods, you know, like I had good periods. But actually, [00:24:35] uh, for a period of my life, I was anorexic, and I didn’t have my period, you [00:24:40] know, so maybe that could have affected my fertility. So, you know, there’s there’s [00:24:45] a lot of factors that we don’t really talk about it with women at schools or even, [00:24:50] you know, like your mom doesn’t know about it. My mom is old style. You know, like, for my mom, [00:24:55] I could have 15 kids and will be fine, you know, like, so, like, actually my mom was like, [00:25:00] super against it. And at the end, like, I went, I walked into it and I’m very chill about [00:25:05] it.

Payman Langroudi: Why are people against it?

Rhona Eskander: I mean, look, I want to interject there because I can completely relate. And I think [00:25:10] like, because now I’m 37, like there’s a huge, huge like kind of pressure. But [00:25:15] I feel now I’m like, I keep thinking to myself, I’m so happy I froze my eggs [00:25:20] because if I have any problems now, I got such a great amount of eggs in 1 in [00:25:25] 1 go. I have a lot of people because when I came out and spoke about it five years ago, so [00:25:30] many people were like, thank you so much. Lots of people found it really brave. There was like this whole [00:25:35] stigma because it was like, oh, whoops, objection. The objection is, is that people think you’re going against nature. [00:25:40] And again, a societal problem. The problem is, is that people perceive women as baby making [00:25:45] machines. Think of Handmaid’s Tale if you’ve never seen it, you know the irony. You know we’re here to produce. We’re put on this earth to [00:25:50] produce and we’re given like fertility window. Now, realistically, you [00:25:55] know, having spoken to my father growing up, of course women do have a window for fertility and. Sadly, I’ve [00:26:00] even met women that said to me, I wish I froze my eggs because I got menopause at 33. It’s [00:26:05] really rare, but it can happen. And then she had like one egg and luckily she got pregnant with [00:26:10] that okay.

Rhona Eskander: But she went through a horrific period and she could only have that one child and super anxious. [00:26:15] Yeah. And and and these things happen. I think the reality is, is that [00:26:20] there is a little bit of a disconnect. And I think the disconnect is, is that where we are mentally [00:26:25] and our minds? To have a children is so different from where our bodies are physically. Right? Because you have to think even [00:26:30] cavemen times or Victorian times, people having children at like 15, right. You get your period at like 1112 [00:26:35] and then you expected to like push out children. Now women are like really wanting to invest in their career, [00:26:40] who they are before they can provide for a child. And I think that the economic situation [00:26:45] and the environment that we live in demands so much more for us to bring up a child like you [00:26:50] want to give your child a good life, like you know how expensive children are, you know you’ve got your own. So I think that there’s like that disconnect. [00:26:55] But I think ultimately a lot of people say, especially the old school women, well, [00:27:00] you left it this long, so it’s your fault. You left it this. You made the choice to leave it [00:27:05] this long. You didn’t pick a husband.

Payman Langroudi: Follow your career. Don’t.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:27:10] You chose not to marry that person. You chose not to have this, etc. not recognising [00:27:15] that there are so many other factors. Because now having a child isn’t just about being fertile, it’s [00:27:20] about your socioeconomic status. It’s about, you know, the ability to give it [00:27:25] emotionally and love to be yourself. Like the best version of who you are, you know? And like, we [00:27:30] don’t talk about other issues, like women suffer from prenatal depression, postnatal depression, like there’s so [00:27:35] many other things. You know, we had Amy on this podcast, she suffered from hyper can [00:27:40] never say the name hyper something gravidarum. And basically she almost and some women [00:27:45] terminate the child because they get a type of sickness way worse than morning sickness the whole way through the [00:27:50] pregnancy. So she lost, I don’t know, like ten kilos, and she’s already tiny because [00:27:55] she was vomiting from start to finish, but the baby still gets all the nutrients and apparently [00:28:00] was in hospital the whole pregnancy, the whole nine months. And some women have to terminate because it gets [00:28:05] that bad, and because some of them even are so depleted from their own stuff. So there’s a lot of things [00:28:10] around it that I think that have so many stigmas. We expect women to just be okay. And I think the fact that we’re not having [00:28:15] conversations about the complexity around fertility makes things much harder. [00:28:20]

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah. And also, I tell you that this is like from our statistics, women [00:28:25] that use amylase, 80% of our patients users are single. [00:28:30] So it’s not even you just want to delay motherhood for career purposes [00:28:35] or stuff, like you just haven’t met the partner that you want to have a child from, [00:28:40] you know, like so. And I was recently looking at some stats, data [00:28:45] on medical studies, mostly more like the highest number of [00:28:50] women that were single when they froze their eggs. So, you know, like you do it just to give yourself [00:28:55] some option. Maybe in the future if you met your partner to to be [00:29:00] able to become a parent. But also like in terms of fertility, we [00:29:05] always talk about the woman. But 50% of the equation is also the men. And [00:29:10] you know, like it’s I was looking at another study. This firm [00:29:15] quality has declined of 50% in the past 50 years.

Rhona Eskander: My dad gave [00:29:20] us a statistic that, you know, after the millions of spum, they get rejected. Remember, 4% [00:29:25] are only good quality where they like, you know, the tail and the head and everything is all like, fine, it’s [00:29:30] only 4%. I was blown away, you know, by that.

Payman Langroudi: Is it half and half and. No.

Rhona Eskander: What she [00:29:35] means she’s saying there’s another person. Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: Statistically. What is it like she said.

Rhona Eskander: Like almost. [00:29:40]

Sarita Stephanie: 50 over 50. Yeah. It’s like always like a there’s a 50% [00:29:45] male in the equation. No, I know that.

Payman Langroudi: But most of the issues due to the man or the.

Sarita Stephanie: Woman, 50% [00:29:50] of IVF cases fail because of the men. So it’s like [00:29:55] we can say it’s 5050, okay, essentially. So it’s like we have to [00:30:00] look at like now they started to look at the sperme quality, mobility numbers, [00:30:05] etc., etc. but before it was like just perception that the woman was infertile, [00:30:10] you know, because families.

Payman Langroudi: Have a male section as well.

Sarita Stephanie: Not yet. We will we will start [00:30:15] hiring.

Rhona Eskander: I think that needs to be talked about because in the same, in the same way that [00:30:20] society blames the woman. I think that also for men, they can find it really [00:30:25] like Damascus dating to be like it’s my firm. That’s the issue. And I think that conversation. [00:30:30] Yeah. Look, don’t give me that scowl look like it’s like all the.

Payman Langroudi: Conversations that you say are a problem. I [00:30:35] just can’t believe they’re a problem.

Rhona Eskander: Oh, of course.

Payman Langroudi: Even even even.

Rhona Eskander: The woman will be okay with you being [00:30:40] like, it’s your problem. I don’t think a lot of men will have an issue with that or wouldn’t even want to get tested.

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah, [00:30:45] but there is. A lot of men don’t want to address that and they don’t want to get tested. And also [00:30:50] we’ve seen that usually if the man gets tested is because of the woman [00:30:55] pushing the men to test.

Payman Langroudi: But maybe he doesn’t want kids. Maybe that’s what it is. No.

Rhona Eskander: You’re making a black mark. [00:31:00] Again?

Sarita Stephanie: It’s personal reason, [00:31:05] but at the end of the day, like 50% of the equation is the men. You know, like, [00:31:10] so like of people going through IVF treatment and 1 in 6 couples as fertility problems [00:31:15] for the man or the woman, 1 in 6. So it’s a big number.

Payman Langroudi: The people who go [00:31:20] for IVF treatment, what percentage of them are successful in having a kid?

Sarita Stephanie: It really depends. Is it.

Payman Langroudi: Low? [00:31:25]

Sarita Stephanie: It depends on the age, uh, of like, uh, both of the couples [00:31:30] independence from a lot of factors. I can tell you that regarding egg [00:31:35] freezing, the success rate is widely dependent on the age of the [00:31:40] woman. So, like, egg freezing is just a woman freezing their eggs. So we have built, actually in [00:31:45] America, a fertility calculator for for the woman. And for example, [00:31:50] like if we take Kim, Kourtney Kardashian, she froze her eggs at 39 and [00:31:55] she had seven eggs.

Rhona Eskander: Can I just interject then? This is what I always say. I froze my eggs at 32 [00:32:00] and I got 19 healthy eggs in one go. Got 18 when my friend. Exactly. [00:32:05] So look. And our age was then when my friends freeze at 3839. Bumped [00:32:10] into someone the other day. Dentist. She’s 38 and she said to me, I just froze my eggs because it was horrific [00:32:15] and I only got six eggs. So the younger you do it, the younger freeze the quality and [00:32:20] the quantity is better when you do it younger. Sad truth. But tell me about.

Payman Langroudi: The actual process, [00:32:25] the treatment.

Rhona Eskander: Well, let’s just finish. Yeah, yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: So like if we take, we build [00:32:30] this in in families, you find this calculator that we built based on [00:32:35] historical data from one of the clinic we work with. So like this is like, backed [00:32:40] by 2000 cycles, even more than a thousand cycles of egg freezing. So [00:32:45] like if, for example, Kourtney Kardashian has mentioned she froze her eggs [00:32:50] of 39 and she got seven eggs and she was not able [00:32:55] to have a live birth after her exam, fortunately.

Rhona Eskander: So Kourtney Kardashian froze her [00:33:00] eggs at 39, but she didn’t end up using her frozen eggs. It wasn’t successful. [00:33:05] Did it have anything to do with her age?

Sarita Stephanie: Yes it did, and her chances of success [00:33:10] were 29% if she had frozen or eggs. At 32 years old, [00:33:15] her chances of success were 60%. At 30 years old, 80%. [00:33:20] So age is a massive factor for live births. How do you.

Payman Langroudi: Know [00:33:25] about Kourtney Kardashian’s numbers of actors?

Rhona Eskander: Well, I think according I think their website does have [00:33:30] a fertility calculator. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the fertility calculator and how you created it? Yes. [00:33:35]

Sarita Stephanie: So we created this fertility calculator based on thousands of cycle with one of our [00:33:40] partner clinic. So based on the age you should freeze [00:33:45] a minimum of 15 eggs. For example, on average women freeze [00:33:50] 9.5 eggs, which is not enough to have a successful [00:33:55] live birth depending on your age.

Rhona Eskander: So let’s talk about this, right? Because even my dad said to me, he [00:34:00] was like, if you’re not going to have children soon, we need to do another cycle. And I was like, listen, we don’t need to [00:34:05] do another cycle. So with my 19 eggs, in theory, how many [00:34:10] rounds could I have? Now you have.

Sarita Stephanie: A live birth out of your eggs at 32 for sure. Yeah, you have [00:34:15] like 80%.

Rhona Eskander: So now let’s say I have problems. Let’s just say like I’m a use by date.

Payman Langroudi: Like do [00:34:20] they.

Rhona Eskander: Hilarious. Did you hear that? Is there an expiry date on the eggs.

Sarita Stephanie: That you can store [00:34:25] them for 55 years? Storage?

Payman Langroudi: Five years?

Rhona Eskander: I have to pay storage just by, you know, like [00:34:30] every year. But my question for you is this. So if now let’s say I have a problem conceiving, [00:34:35] which could happen, it’s the reality. I’m 37 and I decide to use the eggs. [00:34:40] What’s the what would be like the chances? I know you’re saying you’ll definitely get alive, [00:34:45] but what would the statistics show? Like how many eggs should be stored to [00:34:50] ensure that you have a good chance of one live birth?

Sarita Stephanie: We start at 32 [00:34:55] with 19 eggs. You have 95% chance of a live birth. If you want [00:35:00] two kids, 81% chance of having two kids, two live births. Okay, [00:35:05] so if you if you’re 32 and you have only five eggs, you will still have 50% [00:35:10] chance of success. Based on our fertility calculator, which is show [00:35:15] the biggest impact on age when you go and freeze your eggs.

Rhona Eskander: So my other question for you is is [00:35:20] there a difference in quality?

Sarita Stephanie: Of course, when you’re younger you call the quality of the egg is higher. [00:35:25] When you get over 35, the quality deteriorates.

Rhona Eskander: I think also [00:35:30] what I find quite difficult is there’s also and again, I’m making a judgement that a lot of [00:35:35] women struggle with the concept of freezing their eggs at like 30 because they’re like, I’m going to meet someone [00:35:40] in the next five years, of course I’m going to meet someone. And they almost and they almost, [00:35:45] they almost don’t want to put a like stigma on themselves, do you know what I mean? And [00:35:50] then they reach 38 and they’re like, I still haven’t met that person. And then that’s when it becomes [00:35:55] more challenging and then it pushes them to freeze, and it’s almost like it’s not too late. Some people do it and they’re [00:36:00] fine. But your chances? It’s an insurance policy, and your chances of getting healthier [00:36:05] eggs and a better quantity and quality is better when you’re younger. Yeah, that’s [00:36:10] for sure.

Sarita Stephanie: Like age is a is a big factor. You have to consider. Another thing we talk about before [00:36:15] a lot about the stress of freezing the eggs and the journey that it can, I.

Rhona Eskander: Hate it, [00:36:20] I was so sick afterwards. Here we go.

Sarita Stephanie: For me was the same. Actually, I didn’t feel too [00:36:25] sick during the journey, but afterwards it was not cool. Like I was not feeling [00:36:30] fantastic, you know? Like it was like more the week after. I was like very heavy, [00:36:35] very tired, bloated. It was not fun at all. But, you know, still it there. [00:36:40] It could obviously, you know. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So I like you was already in a committed [00:36:45] relationship, but I was very focussed on my career and I was just felt that I wasn’t ready. Went on the recommendation [00:36:50] of my dad. I found it very empowering going for the scans and looking at my hormones. My [00:36:55] AMH was 12, so I was like on the very low end of healthy. So not like awful because I’ve [00:37:00] met friends of mine. Today I bumped into a friend of mine that’s been doing IVF for like three years, and her AMH [00:37:05] was like 0.7 or something. So it’s super, super low. And we looked [00:37:10] at like the different sides of the ovaries, etc.. And I found it really empowering knowing my numbers, [00:37:15] because I just feel like you’ve got the knowledge to know where you’re at. And then, like you, I had to [00:37:20] do the injections, work in between. Found it fine. I’m a fairly, fairly healthy person. The day they took [00:37:25] the eggs, fine. And then the next day, like the symptoms started coming up, I was really emotional. I [00:37:30] put on eight kilos. I. Can you believe it? Really? Wow. Afterwards, I don’t know when my stomach [00:37:35] was like this, like, can you imagine? And like going from having, like a flat stomach. It was really like it really damaged my [00:37:40] mental health as well, the way that I looked and felt etc. and then I actually caught Covid two weeks [00:37:45] later. So all of those symptoms made me feel a lot worse. It’s not for the light hearted. It’s [00:37:50] not like, hey, I’m just going to go and like, freeze my eggs. I think you’ve got to consider all these factors.

Payman Langroudi: How much [00:37:55] does it cost?

Sarita Stephanie: Exactly? And then another thing that I want to say is that cost, [00:38:00] it’s a big factor affecting also this anxiousness that you have because the [00:38:05] treatment is not cheap. One cycle in London is between 5500 [00:38:10] pounds to £6,000 one cycle. Considering. Again, depending [00:38:15] on your age, you need a number of eggs, depending [00:38:20] on your age, to be sure that you will have a live birth right? So you maybe have to do multiple cycles [00:38:25] depending on your age level, your age, and so on. So, you know, like it’s really [00:38:30] a game of doing it many times and getting as many eggs as you can [00:38:35] to be sure that you have a live birth, but it can go up to £10,000, £12,000 [00:38:40] per cycle.

Rhona Eskander: So imagine how many cycles you’ve got to do. So one thing I’m [00:38:45] going to say is there’s a little bit of criticism. There’s an incredible doctor influencer. I think [00:38:50] she’s got a million followers. She’s amazing. And she basically did a one year memory [00:38:55] reel about her egg freezing, which she did. And then she had to, like, put all of these warnings on [00:39:00] there to be like, I know that I’m in a place of extreme privilege, because what I was seeing was, is that [00:39:05] people were trolling her to be like, this is an extremely privileged thing to do to freeze [00:39:10] your eggs. And, you know, she obviously recognises that. Now, does amylase help [00:39:15] women that feel that they can’t afford it? What financial support do you provide? [00:39:20] What have you got to say for people that are like, I can barely feed myself, let alone freeze my eggs? My sister [00:39:25] definitely couldn’t afford it. The only reason she could do it is because of my dad.

Sarita Stephanie: Wonderful point. [00:39:30] So we are launching something like, I’m not going to say I’m not going to do [00:39:35] a spoiler alert because this is happening in the next quarter. We work very hard [00:39:40] to make sure that we open up the market with a possibility for women [00:39:45] to pay their treatment. So we’re going to really, like, be the game changers [00:39:50] in this space, because we’re going to offer this option that nobody does out there, and [00:39:55] we’re going to make the treatment affordable for women that can’t pay five, 5500 [00:40:00] pounds. So this is coming. Something else that we do today [00:40:05] is go out there like if clinics unfortunately, you know, like they have to charge [00:40:10] for their bit more for their scan and their test and they have a fertility package. [00:40:15] If you have a fertility test with us, for example, you get to pay £50. [00:40:20] £50 is pretty accessible. And this is part of our mission to make only [00:40:25] even the testing affordable. So that’s a big mission that we have. And [00:40:30] just to.

Rhona Eskander: Interject, Payman, just so you don’t know, the testing itself could cost a few hundred pounds.

Sarita Stephanie: Alone, could cost [00:40:35] like £250. And something else that we do is like get the like get to speak [00:40:40] with one of our specialists at the clinics. If this bag freezing is at the top of your [00:40:45] mind or at the back of your mind, and you know, like these people, they offer their time also [00:40:50] for free because they want to raise awareness out there. So that’s something that [00:40:55] we are our mission to make the treatment more affordable. But yeah, something that I, for example, [00:41:00] that I spend a lot of money at the beginning of my journey was understanding which clinic I wanted [00:41:05] to go to, which is something that, you know, like also why we built Emily’s to give the possibility [00:41:10] to women to get to speak to two different, uh, clinic, for [00:41:15] example, understand? Okay, have more connection with this doctor. I’m going to I want to do this treatment [00:41:20] with this doctor rather than this other doctor. And, you know, like, this is like all the clinics in London [00:41:25] that are approved by the HIV Aids are wonderful clinic. It’s just a matter of feelings of like, okay, [00:41:30] I like more, uh, doctor this rather than doctor because I feel more [00:41:35] comfortable and it’s fair, you know, like or I don’t know, I’m Italian, for example. And I was [00:41:40] very stuck in my mind that I wanted a Spanish doctor. Yeah. You know, so I was looking [00:41:45] around like, okay, do you have a Spanish doctor that I can arrange? My woman, woman Spanish doctor [00:41:50] that I can freeze my eggs with? And I know I was speaking with an English person or whatever. No, [00:41:55] no, no offence, but I was like, okay, I want a Spanish doctor. So I was going around and, you know, like shop [00:42:00] around clinics, but every time you spend £250, £300 and I spend like thousands [00:42:05] just trying to find my doctor and families, you can find your doctor for free. [00:42:10] So essentially it’s a.

Rhona Eskander: Platform that helps educate, connect and just helps make the process much easier, [00:42:15] which I think is absolutely like pivotal because a lot of people find it really challenging. [00:42:20] Um, I.

Payman Langroudi: Think all of healthcare is difficult. More difficult [00:42:25] than we realise are difficult. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: And people think the NHS is so accessible. [00:42:30] It’s so not.

Payman Langroudi: Well, let’s say we’ve got friends who are doctors [00:42:35] left, right and centre I mean we. Yeah of course dental school and, you know, um, family [00:42:40] member was having an operation. I had access to doctors in that field right [00:42:45] at the top of that field. And yet there were times where you felt in the dark, you didn’t [00:42:50] know what was, what complication was going on or whatever. So in this situation where [00:42:55] it’s so emotive as well. Yeah, you can imagine how it’s so necessary.

Sarita Stephanie: I mean, the Hfea, [00:43:00] which is the regulatory entity in this country for fertility clinics and the fertility [00:43:05] space, they recently published numbers saying that the very [00:43:10] few couples qualify. Few heterosexual couples and same sex couples [00:43:15] qualify for NHS funding to go through fertility treatments. And I think [00:43:20] the rate of accessibility from the NHS for the NHS for [00:43:25] the dropped -17% in England, 36% in [00:43:30] Wales and like minus one in Scotland. So, you know, like accessibility to fertility [00:43:35] treatment for the NHS has dropped drastically. But people in fertility treatment are increasing, [00:43:40] which means like that. People are going above and beyond to try to find money to become [00:43:45] parents. And this is like this is number from the regulatory entity [00:43:50] of the facility space. Tell us a.

Payman Langroudi: Little bit more about the entrepreneur journey for you. Yeah, [00:43:55] because I remember the first time we met in Edinburgh, you were just in [00:44:00] the incubator. You just started in the incubator.

Rhona Eskander: Yeah, we really want to know because I actually was going to ask you, Sarita, [00:44:05] I’m going to ask you now live in front of, like, our 10,000 listeners or whatever it is. Am I allowed to do, come and spend [00:44:10] the day at work with you? Because I want to come and learn from you, like, genuinely, of course, because I find, [00:44:15] you know, one thing Sarita said to me, like she supported me from day one and she was like, I’ll never support [00:44:20] businesses that actually, like, get rid of women or treat women badly. And she’s been like a huge kind of [00:44:25] like cheerleader and support for me in the background of things. And I find it really. Inspiring the way she’s done [00:44:30] this. And I think a lot of people would like to know, like, first of all, like leaving a corporate job, starting on your [00:44:35] own fundraising, etc.. So tell us a bit about that.

Sarita Stephanie: So I was in the incubator when you met me, and [00:44:40] that really helped me to quit my job because, you know, like, I mean, what.

Rhona Eskander: Is an incubator? [00:44:45]

Payman Langroudi: It’s Start-Up incubator. Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: Explain. What does it mean.

Sarita Stephanie: They help you [00:44:50] coming up with an MVP, you meet other minimum viable. Like how do you.

Rhona Eskander: Find [00:44:55] an incubator like.

Payman Langroudi: Incubators.

Rhona Eskander: Are you just Google it.

Sarita Stephanie: There are a few around London. [00:45:00] Yeah.

Payman Langroudi: So Y Combinator is the most famous one.

Rhona Eskander: Okay, fine.

Sarita Stephanie: Loads of like, uh, for example, [00:45:05] Entrepreneur First is an incubator and they’re very big in the health care space. For example, they have a lot of [00:45:10] doctors, dentists that build like companies through entrepreneurs. First [00:45:15] they wanted it was not this one was another one. But basically they help you [00:45:20] having an idea on what you need to build a Start-Up. Right? And also like they help you [00:45:25] with connection. You can meet your co-founder there if you want. If you don’t have for example, [00:45:30] like a network of founders around you and they tell you, okay, pick somebody that has complementary [00:45:35] skills to you and all these kind of things. Essentially, they help you like understanding [00:45:40] the business model, what investors are looking for, building a pitch deck that you know is appealing to [00:45:45] investors. So all of these sort of kind of things. So I finished it, I finished the incubator. [00:45:50] And then from there, you know, like I was still trying to understand what which [00:45:55] direction to take with the company because at the beginning it was like Fertility Road. And I was alone [00:46:00] because I didn’t meet my co-founder during this process. So then I did a bit of research [00:46:05] and a friend name dropped Yasmin, my actual co-founder. [00:46:10] So like I brought to her, she helped me like build an MVP. And then actually [00:46:15] at the beginning, also at the beginning of the journey, I was partnering with somebody else. Unfortunately, you know, like our, [00:46:20] uh, direction were a bit taken different. We were taking a bit different direction. So we [00:46:25] I departed from him. Obviously we’re still on good terms. And then I got into [00:46:30] more working with Yasmin full time. She quit her job, and now we are obviously [00:46:35] co-founders.

Payman Langroudi: Um, MVP, minimum viable product.

Sarita Stephanie: Minimum viable product. Yes. So [00:46:40] we had the she built Yasmin build our minimum viable product, which means, [00:46:45] you know, like that women were able to go into like sort of a platform [00:46:50] booking their chat with the doctors and everything, you know, like just to validate our [00:46:55] concept and idea and that obviously, like today we’re way bigger than that. But, uh, [00:47:00] at the beginning, you know, like it was just, uh, to see if actually there was a need in the market, a minimum viable [00:47:05] product to see people were booking through it and the clinic were using it. So there was like, [00:47:10] um, it’s a very important process before you build a product and you pull [00:47:15] resources, you see if you have traction in the market, which is like the base of building [00:47:20] a Start-Up, essentially. So after that, we did that, we decided that we needed funding [00:47:25] for marketing. Be out there more, you know, like into you can’t just do everything. So we need [00:47:30] also like to hire some people, a marketing person and so on. So we went out there and did fundraising [00:47:35] and uh, I actually was pregnant during fundraising. So [00:47:40] yeah, I got pregnant and it was December that I got pregnant. [00:47:45] And in January we started conversation for fundraising. So in March, it was official [00:47:50] actually, that, you know, like I was February March, it was official that I was pregnant. And, you know, like I started [00:47:55] sharing it with the team and everybody. And at the beginning, I was not telling any investor [00:48:00] that I was pregnant because I was scared. Um, I was scared that somebody would [00:48:05] like, judged or, you know, like that somebody could be like, oh, this woman is not is gonna have, uh, and [00:48:10] I’m quoting one investor. This woman is going to have it as a hobby [00:48:15] rather than a company, because now she’s going to have a baby. And I received this comment, [00:48:20] you know, like, so this is like this real, real, real comment I received from an [00:48:25] investor. Like, I’m like, you make sure you send everyone to be.

Payman Langroudi: Honest, be honest, be [00:48:30] honest. Yeah, yeah. If, if, if a, if a receptionist practice manager [00:48:35] job was going at your practice and someone came and said. I want the shot. But [00:48:40] I’m pregnant. I was afraid it would affect you, would affect you, would affect you would. It would affect you.

Rhona Eskander: But [00:48:45] listen. Have you seen. I don’t even think about it. Um, Payman. Because all of my, you know, the [00:48:50] first of all, my team, which, by the way, I’ve had TV channels approach me for this. Absolutely [00:48:55] love the diversity in my team. I have had diversity because I do not discriminate. You were going. [00:49:00]

Payman Langroudi: To hire someone who was going to be away very soon. That’s kind of what the investor is saying in a way. [00:49:05] I hear you, I hear you.

Sarita Stephanie: I actually will hire her just because you take. [00:49:10]

Payman Langroudi: Money from men.

Sarita Stephanie: From women. I actually.

Rhona Eskander: Mandate.

Sarita Stephanie: Pregnant [00:49:15] women out there. You can come to Emily’s and I will hire you. Yeah, okay.

Rhona Eskander: Chelsea Dental don’t [00:49:20] apply to enlighten me. I will hire.

Sarita Stephanie: You. But, you [00:49:25] know, like, so, like that’s the reality. This is, you know, also, the UK government [00:49:30] pays you for the salary that a pregnant woman is out. So, you know, like [00:49:35] this country is not bad for on this for pregnancy and [00:49:40] stuff. They don’t pay you like probably so much. But you know like a company is receive incentive [00:49:45] from the UK government when a woman is out for pregnancy and ultimately ultimately [00:49:50] pregnant women are doing a favour to the humanity to keep the the humanity [00:49:55] going because we are becoming infertile. This is a.

Payman Langroudi: Crisis right now.

Rhona Eskander: Can I ask? Yeah, so that’s a good point, [00:50:00] actually. Um, isn’t it becoming a crisis now because less women are having [00:50:05] children? And do you think that’s because of choice? And is it? But surely this is just a problem in the Western world, right. Because I’m assuming [00:50:10] places like India and Africa, like people are still having lots of children? No.

Sarita Stephanie: Well, average age [00:50:15] of women having kids is increasing every day in the [00:50:20] Western world is 31 years old for a woman and also 30 for a man. So it’s not like [00:50:25] that’s 20s in my point.

Payman Langroudi: Because the average age is going up in average. Yeah, fewer [00:50:30] people are having as many children I see. So for that reason. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: Also I cost of [00:50:35] living and societal pressures all like you know there’s.

Rhona Eskander: There’s it’s really interesting because [00:50:40] I’m seeing more and more women and like really like strong, powerful, beautiful women. One [00:50:45] I’m thinking of like she’s stunning. So like what you think is stunning. Like this beautiful, beautiful, [00:50:50] beautiful. Um, she’s this, uh, Russian influencer. And she basically [00:50:55] came out there and, like, her TikTok was like, I don’t want to have kids, and I’ve never wanted [00:51:00] to have kids. And she’s actually an only child, and she talks about the fact that she doesn’t want children. And [00:51:05] the comments are like some of the comments, they’re like, oh, save this video so that you’re crying yourself [00:51:10] to bed when you’re like 39 years old and your life has no purpose. But what’s most perplexing [00:51:15] about it, just wait for it, is that other women, especially the women that have children, [00:51:20] troll her being like, I have three children. It’s my whole purpose in life. And I’m like, that’s [00:51:25] great. But not everybody wants to follow the same journey. But again, like, people don’t [00:51:30] give space. And then there were other women that were jumping in and saying, I’m 45. I decided [00:51:35] not to have them in my 30s and I’ve never regretted the decision. Does that make sense? And I think it’s like, interesting [00:51:40] how also more and more women are saying just because I can have children doesn’t mean I want to [00:51:45] now.

Sarita Stephanie: But also I want to. Going back to the point. So would you rather [00:51:50] not hire somebody that is super qualified and be out of work for like six [00:51:55] months and hire somebody else? That’s then average? Yeah, that is, I [00:52:00] don’t know, less qualified or average that will go above and beyond in the job just because it’s [00:52:05] just hiring someone you need.

Payman Langroudi: Sometimes you need someone at that point when you’re.

Sarita Stephanie: Saying, okay, you can find a replacement for [00:52:10] six months. There are a lot of people out there that can find a replacement for six months. It would be a bit more costly, but you won’t make [00:52:15] a huge a huge impact on the society.

Payman Langroudi: You just said you’re not going to hire men.

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah, [00:52:20] I’m.

Payman Langroudi: Not going to super qualified, super qualified.

Sarita Stephanie: For the job.

Rhona Eskander: Take money from a man. As [00:52:25] he said.

Sarita Stephanie: Um, I’m going to hire a man. A certain point, not in the [00:52:30] executive team, I’m sorry, not in the executive team.

Payman Langroudi: Super qualified for the job.

Sarita Stephanie: Well, [00:52:35] I haven’t met any yet. Also that are so that knows [00:52:40] the process of egg freezing yet. We have on the board doctors gynaecologists. There are men [00:52:45] respect my dad. So yes we have doctors that are male but you know like that’s [00:52:50] a different kind of, uh, doctors. Yeah, there’s a different kind of a [00:52:55] doctor. I will hire a doctor, a male doctor. We haven’t received any application yet. But, you know, [00:53:00] in terms of business wise, like a head of marketing or a CMO, no chances [00:53:05] we were going to hire a man. But because also there’s an emphasis [00:53:10] on women and so on, like. So it’s the face of of Amelia’s [00:53:15] head of marketing. It does make a lot of sense. Tourism is a is a woman. [00:53:20] So, you know, like, yeah, we’re doing positive bias on this for sure. We’re going to hire a man, [00:53:25] but maybe for other job, maybe as uh, in the finance department when we build one [00:53:30] for sure. Uh, we have a lot of men in the as a gynaecologist in the board. [00:53:35] Yes.

Payman Langroudi: Tell us about the business model. So you take the money from the clinic?

Sarita Stephanie: Yes. Then we charge [00:53:40] clinics. It’s, uh, only the. Yeah, we just basically charge clinics [00:53:45] because for the patients is the process is all free.

Payman Langroudi: And where are you at as far [00:53:50] as funding? Yeah. Runway. Yeah. Stability.

Sarita Stephanie: So like I was mentioning, sorry I didn’t [00:53:55] finish my conversation on the fundraiser. So we did the fund raise while I was pregnant. [00:54:00] At the end of the day, we had this, uh, our lead investor is Ascension is [00:54:05] a venture capital firm that I really like, and [00:54:10] they are great supporters. Also like, when I like, actually met them when [00:54:15] I was pregnant and they couldn’t give a list back that I was pregnant. You know, like the guy that, like, all the [00:54:20] team believed, like they didn’t even notice, you know, like. And that’s how it should be, you know, like, we should [00:54:25] normalise this, you know, like, it’s gonna, like, eventually a woman has the possibility [00:54:30] or maybe, of course, to, to carry a child. We know it. That’s [00:54:35] it is 50% of the population. Let’s just go through it, you know, like it’s like how it is. It’s how it [00:54:40] is. So they are our lead investor. And the rest of the investment we’re seeing, which was in total [00:54:45] our pre-seed round, 650,000. They were angels, friends and family. [00:54:50] And our board of investors is voluntarily 50% women, 50% men. [00:54:55] And we felt very like I really felt very high for it because [00:55:00] I wanted to have women on, on in the investment team. Now [00:55:05] we’re raising a seed round and we’re [00:55:10] raising in region to 4 to 5 million. This will be for [00:55:15] expansion, geographical expansion out of the UK. And this will also be to be [00:55:20] able to implement new features, for example, the one that we’re launching, uh, to [00:55:25] integrate with our platform, the tech team and so on. So it will be a lot of other services [00:55:30] we’re gonna use to make the treatment more widespread and fertility, um, testing [00:55:35] also more, uh, accessible.

Rhona Eskander: Do you think your finance background helped [00:55:40] you run a business? Because that’s what I hear, you know, and I think, like a lot of dentists recently [00:55:45] have been going into, like, the more entrepreneurial space, [00:55:50] um, not talking about running practices per se, but, you know, doing things that are different, like more and more people are doing things like [00:55:55] The Apprentice, like, do you know, I mean, they want to be doing like these different things, but I actually think [00:56:00] that sometimes they’re totally lost on what to do because dentistry is like running [00:56:05] a practice is very different from like having a Start-Up. I think that and I hear a lot of your [00:56:10] like, finance brain kind of like really helping you. And I’m sure that you’re one of the strongest [00:56:15] on your team at, you know, doing all the investment, raising etc. side of things.

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah, [00:56:20] I’m, I, I’m currently the chief executive officer of office in [00:56:25] Amelia. So I do all the commercial side fundraising numbers and stuff, even [00:56:30] though I hate numbers. Like it’s not really, but I’m very quick in assessing [00:56:35] things, you know?

Rhona Eskander: So it’s like y’all got some. Sure. Because of like the background.

Sarita Stephanie: It’s natural, you know, like [00:56:40] it comes like, you know, like if you give me something, I, I just look at it and I know what we [00:56:45] have to do. I want to do it. It’s boring. I don’t like it, but I know what [00:56:50] to do, you know, like, so that’s how it is. And now Yasmin does all the product and technical [00:56:55] bits, coding, all that sort of thing. Which is she a developer? She’s [00:57:00] a developer.

Payman Langroudi: In that pre-seed round. How many people did you have to see before someone made [00:57:05] an investment?

Sarita Stephanie: We received like, uh, maybe 200 rejections from [00:57:10] a venture capital? Yeah, yeah, from VCs or and then [00:57:15] individuals as similar. So you [00:57:20] have to be very strong. I mean, like, I’m like, okay. Like I remember one day we like, [00:57:25] in, uh, the busy times, we were like in like eight calls per day with investors. [00:57:30] And you are back to back, back to back repeating the same thing. And you have to be convincing and all of that [00:57:35] and, you know, like, you know, immediately who’s gonna invest or not. You know, like it’s just, you know it because, [00:57:40] you know, like somebody that shows an interest, they will follow up very quickly. And [00:57:45] even, you know, like when we received the offer from Ascension, they didn’t take so much time to invest, [00:57:50] you know, like they saw potential, you know, like pre-seed, you know, we were we are [00:57:55] just at the beginning. Right. So you see, okay, there are two badass women co-founders, [00:58:00] you know, one is going to do the commercial, the other is technical. They both have experience. [00:58:05] I work in the healthcare space now in the big data for a long time. So she knows what [00:58:10] she’s doing. The other one working in the healthcare space, building product for patients. She knows [00:58:15] what she’s doing. Somewhere the company is going to go.

Payman Langroudi: So are you even at that point? Are [00:58:20] you selling the billion dollar global domination 100%. So bigger plan [00:58:25] as you can, right?

Sarita Stephanie: Yeah. So basically one thing that I like, one piece of feedback [00:58:30] that I received from a great investor in a big VC, [00:58:35] she said, you know, when you present. Your market like [00:58:40] some some time and all of these kind of things. When you present your slide with how [00:58:45] big is the market? I want to see a huge number. They’re like [00:58:50] huge, huge. Like do everything you have to do to make that [00:58:55] that number so huge that I’m like, look at it. And I’m like, whoa, [00:59:00] I have to invest in this space. It maybe it’s not like not even the company, but like, [00:59:05] this space is so big. So did you find.

Payman Langroudi: That you had to pivot a few times before you got to [00:59:10] the. Yes, the the final product 100%.

Sarita Stephanie: I actually had to calculate [00:59:15] how big was the market. How big is it, 377 billions [00:59:20] by myself.

Payman Langroudi: In order to make that [00:59:25] pitch right?

Sarita Stephanie: You know. Exactly. You know, like 300%.

Rhona Eskander: So I want to spend the day with her at work, come to work with Teresa, [00:59:30] go on.

Sarita Stephanie: Like a look at studies, looking at how much [00:59:35] time women waste. Waste, I mean, like they take out of [00:59:40] work and how much it costs for a company to go and do their fertility check-up, gynaecologist [00:59:45] visit, IVF treatment, fertility treatments and so on. How much that burden in [00:59:50] the society and for like corporates out there. So I had to calculate that manually because [00:59:55] I found all the numbers and then, you know, like you have to apply globally and all of that, those kind of things [01:00:00] to see, you know, it’s huge. The number like the cost that I’m like, [01:00:05] I don’t know, I’m going to a gynaecologist appointment. So I’m wasting four hours of my time and I take [01:00:10] four hours out of work for my company. That’s a huge loss. [01:00:15]

Payman Langroudi: And there must be a competitor. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: So we have [01:00:20] of course we have some competitors, which is good.

Payman Langroudi: Are they based here or.

Sarita Stephanie: Yes, [01:00:25] they are based here. There are some companies that we look at. For example, they have an amazing branding [01:00:30] and we respect their mission. And nobody that is really focussed only on egg freezing. [01:00:35] They’re more like or testing of or fertility treatments or IVF or, you know, [01:00:40] financing all of that. But there are some companies that we look at very much for [01:00:45] what they’re doing in the fertility space. Ultimately, we look up at everybody to be fair, [01:00:50] because, you know, like competition is always healthy to have keeps you on the toes and [01:00:55] push you. But yeah, I think like we’re quite unique in our message and the way we, we carry [01:01:00] things.

Payman Langroudi: And your proposition to the clinic is that based on like a exclusive [01:01:05] relationship that you.

Sarita Stephanie: So at the moment we have of course we have contracts [01:01:10] with the clinics. It’s most likely they work with a clinics that we partner [01:01:15] with. They work with other apps, for example, or they work with other employment [01:01:20] benefit platform. They offer fertility, so they work with other bits and pieces. But it’s still [01:01:25] like in the big fertility space rather than just online freezing. We are very [01:01:30] specific on that, and I do believe that we are the only one around. They’re very open, to [01:01:35] be honest clinics. Who’s the.

Payman Langroudi: Person who’s actually going into the Portland and saying to.

Sarita Stephanie: Myself. [01:01:40]

Payman Langroudi: Yeah, so so how do you know who to who to contact?

Rhona Eskander: And she’s [01:01:45] amazing. She, she’s literally like got her big black book. We asked her, I have a book, [01:01:50] I have a big black book.

Sarita Stephanie: I think she’s.

Rhona Eskander: Literally.

Payman Langroudi: No, no. But I’m saying with the [01:01:55] the clinics.

Sarita Stephanie: Are with the clinics. That’s my blue book. I’m [01:02:00] joking. But yes, basically we don’t. So look, also part [01:02:05] of our proposition is that we reduce the decision fatigue for women to go [01:02:10] to. Like we don’t have all the clinics in London, we have few that we partner with, [01:02:15] and they’re the ones that wants to improve their communication with the patients, that they want to do a bit of different [01:02:20] things. The other day, Diana, our head of marketing and, um, another [01:02:25] person that works in the social media, they went to a clinic and they recorded a bit of [01:02:30] content. And, you know, like the doctors are happy about it. Some clinics, they don’t want to do this kind of work. Like [01:02:35] I.

Rhona Eskander: Think my facility academy that I did with my dad.

Sarita Stephanie: Is similar.

Rhona Eskander: No, no, no, I [01:02:40] mean, I’m a social media queen. I mean, I could do it full time. Um, but the thing is, is, like with the fertility [01:02:45] academy, um, with my dad, like, they’re so not into that. Like, Gorgui is like a [01:02:50] very old school doctor, and, like, a few people messaged me and were like, where did you get it done? Because obviously I [01:02:55] had a YouTube video, which did really well because it talks about the whole process. And then I was like, listen, [01:03:00] I was like, Gorgui does not have like the bedside manner that you might want. Like he’s like very [01:03:05] scientific doctor. His results are very good with the egg freezing. But like you’re going there like, and you know, some people [01:03:10] said they want the compassion. They want the like, empathy they want. It’s like dentist, right? You could go to the best technical dentist, [01:03:15] but you’re like, if you want to get pandered to on the bedside or like, you know, really have those conversations, you’re not [01:03:20] going to get that. Do you see what I mean? I think different clinics are there for different reasons, you know. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: You know, like so like the clinics [01:03:25] that we work with are the one that wants to they also understand that [01:03:30] demographic is changing, right? Women like my age. I’m now 35. But when I did [01:03:35] it I was 32. Women under 30s or even millennials. Now they’re working and they’re in [01:03:40] their 20s.

Rhona Eskander: Imagine like 25, 27.

Sarita Stephanie: They will check out.

Payman Langroudi: Based on the stats. That’s the right. [01:03:45] That’s the right thing to do. Right. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: You know like so even like at this age, what [01:03:50] do you do is that you check a clinic on Instagram, on TikTok. If you don’t have a presence there, [01:03:55] almost. You don’t exist for some demographics. You know, some.

Rhona Eskander: Google like, you know, some.

Sarita Stephanie: Google, [01:04:00] you know. But Google reviews also like are completely out of it. How are you getting to the.

Payman Langroudi: Users, the [01:04:05] ladies? How are you getting to them?

Sarita Stephanie: So our traffic is mainly organic, meaning that [01:04:10] a woman uses. And then she tells all of her friends and all of her friends come or [01:04:15] we do.

Rhona Eskander: Like a word of mouth at the moment, more.

Sarita Stephanie: Word of mouth. We do a lot of events as well, you [01:04:20] know. Interesting. We try we tried ads in November, [01:04:25] uh, for a month, and we didn’t get the result. We wanted to. We get some traction, but [01:04:30] we didn’t get the result. We wanted to. We have, you know, like a women ambassador, for example, [01:04:35] was not.

Rhona Eskander: Meant to be an ambassador. Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: You should be one of our ambassadors. [01:04:40] You should. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, we actually had [01:04:45] a friend of mine, Sophie, that recorded her fertility.

Rhona Eskander: She was in Made in Chelsea. [01:04:50]

Sarita Stephanie: And made Sophie that made in Chelsea, you know, like we were talking [01:04:55] about one day she was like, I want to freeze my eggs. I’m like, okay, I’ll help you if you want. You know, like I’m [01:05:00] we families. So we talk about it and then, you know, like I said, I like she told me like, oh, I have [01:05:05] this clinic in my mind that I would like to go to. And I’m like, look, let me have a chat with them. Let’s see if they’re up to [01:05:10] also being recorded again. You mentioned some clinics. They don’t want to be part of this, you know, which [01:05:15] is okay. It’s fair, you know. But some others they see an opportunity of like reaching [01:05:20] a new demographic, you know.

Payman Langroudi: Is it going through the roof right now? Yes.

Sarita Stephanie: It’s freezing [01:05:25] as a.

Rhona Eskander: But my dad was talking about this 15 years ago. This is what I’m trying to say. And there was such a stigma. [01:05:30] And my dad was like, egg freezing is going to be massive. Like my dad has always been, like very visionary [01:05:35] in that sense. And now you go if you go on Instagram, people are talking [01:05:40] about Vicky Patterson was talking about it. She’s got 2 million followers. Sophie, as you said, was talking about [01:05:45] it. The doctor. There’s so many people.

Payman Langroudi: Point of view in terms of product [01:05:50] market fit. Like if she if she was in the app. Now at the time that your dad was mentioning [01:05:55] it.

Sarita Stephanie: It was a bit early.

Rhona Eskander: A bit early.

Sarita Stephanie: It was early. It was early and you know, like, yeah, there’s [01:06:00] a there’s a time for it. So if you look at what the HPA stats [01:06:05] said in 2021, we had the 4200 [01:06:10] cycle, which was a 64% increase of [01:06:15] two years before.

Payman Langroudi: Oh my goodness.

Sarita Stephanie: And this is out of the pocket. Right. [01:06:20]

Payman Langroudi: So that’s one that’s the one you want to put into your pitch deck.

Sarita Stephanie: You’re [01:06:25] not exist 64% increase in meaning that this treatment is paid [01:06:30] out of the pocket. Right. Because we discuss about the NHS and stuff unless unfortunately also like you have cancer, [01:06:35] they do not cover egg freezing. Yeah. Um, so this is a women that are out [01:06:40] of the pocket pay for their treatments.

Rhona Eskander: This is open. So fascinating. I feel like I’ve learned [01:06:45] so much. And I think this is going to be such a big help because I get messages on a weekly basis [01:06:50] about egg freezing, and now I can just refer them to this chat. Thank you so much, Sarita. [01:06:55] I’ve enjoyed every moment of it, and I think it’s been one of our more different [01:07:00] chats. Right? As in like it’s been like it’s been.

Payman Langroudi: Like a bit.

Rhona Eskander: Huh? Can we.

Payman Langroudi: Talk about me [01:07:05] or.

Rhona Eskander: Do you want to talk about your husband? Yeah, I’m happy to talk about my husband. I don’t have long, but. Go on.

Payman Langroudi: Tell [01:07:10] us about me. He’s a global Dental collective.

Sarita Stephanie: So my husband Mahi is doing [01:07:15] a wonderful job creating global Dental collective, which is a community [01:07:20] that is supporting dentists across the world, talking about different [01:07:25] things. For example, now he has an event coming up in April that will be with [01:07:30] my.

Rhona Eskander: Therapist.

Sarita Stephanie: With with Rhona’s therapist that is, uh, on [01:07:35] mental health. So talking about resilience, talking about [01:07:40] how you address stress and, you know, when you have a difficult case, a difficult patient, [01:07:45] do you show your ordinary ability to patients or not. So, you know, like or to your team. [01:07:50] So it’s going into the deep root of, you know, the profession that I’m sure you know better [01:07:55] than me guys. But he’s raising some important questions that, you know, like to support [01:08:00] dentists that will participate, for example. And he’s bringing up psychotherapists. [01:08:05] Yeah.

Rhona Eskander: So Ella’s a psychotherapist. She’s actually on our podcast as well.

Sarita Stephanie: Here we go. [01:08:10] So he’s bringing Ella to answer some questions and address how you should basically, [01:08:15] for example, be vulnerable in front of your patient. How much can you share? Uh, you know, [01:08:20] like, I’m pretty sure, you know, I always say that, you know, I think the job that [01:08:25] you do, guys, when a patient is out there and they just open their mouth, there’s a lot of energy [01:08:30] coming out and, you know, like, there’s so much energy you can take for [01:08:35] per day. So, you know, like, I feel like that, you know, like you. You have to become also like almost [01:08:40] psychotherapist yourself to address patients all the time.

Rhona Eskander: Well, the reason why Payman [01:08:45] and I started this podcast was exactly for that reason, because we recognised that dentists and dentistry [01:08:50] is such a demanding job, and that the energies that we have to take on, on a [01:08:55] daily basis within the profession is a lot. And I think that we really [01:09:00] undervalue ourselves sometimes, you know, because we are in that room, you know, you’re not in an office [01:09:05] environment. You’re literally in the room with like three people, most in one at one time. And [01:09:10] that’s intense every single day. And like when you’re ill or when you can’t be bothered, you still have to [01:09:15] talk. You still have to give, you know, to the patient and you still have to be on your A-game. So I think [01:09:20] that’s really important. And the mission that he has with Global Collective is amazing. So I’m looking but also like. [01:09:25]

Sarita Stephanie: Part of his mission at the end of the day is an artist. He’s a creative. Like he’s. Yeah, [01:09:30] exactly. You know, like he’s like reshaping how things are done [01:09:35] even for for events and conferences, you know, like how you present the content, [01:09:40] you know, like there’s a lot of work that also I can see looking the fertility space, there was so [01:09:45] little advancement in terms of like how to do things in a more [01:09:50] patient, friendly way or so on, or even like in this case, dentistry friendly way. [01:09:55] And, you know, like reshaping a bit like the discussion in the industry. I think it’s a very important [01:10:00] topic that is bringing up in the way he’s doing things in a theatrical way, a more [01:10:05] three dimensional way. Uh, experience is very important nowadays. How the perception, [01:10:10] you know, like when you walk in a space. Yeah, it’s.

Rhona Eskander: Just about to say space because that’s what my [01:10:15] sister redesigned my whole clinic. I will wait for you to come in.

Payman Langroudi: I just sort of just saw the windows. [01:10:20]

Rhona Eskander: And, um, my sister said to me, interestingly, that the space [01:10:25] the she said the the medical space is horrible. She has every time she’s an experience, a [01:10:30] dental or medical space. It has been so disconnected for the patient. And she has said that even [01:10:35] when dentists tries to do like Uber luxe clinics, she’s like, it still doesn’t feel good. And she said [01:10:40] that when she went for her fertility, her egg freezing, they actually had to stop the first time. She had a [01:10:45] very traumatic experience because they couldn’t sedate her properly, and she said that everything was so cold, [01:10:50] like the medical chair, the room. And she said that if that had failed the sedation and she was in a [01:10:55] better environment where she felt safe, the doctors and nurses made her feel safe. But it was just like the [01:11:00] space. She would have felt a lot better. And now when people come into my dental clinic because of the space that she’s [01:11:05] built with, like she’s, you know, created the space of almost like the human body, like [01:11:10] being like in kind of like sync and the different textures, colours. Exactly. [01:11:15] People come in and they’re like, I feel so calm. Imagine saying that when you come to a dental practice, that’s literally what [01:11:20] every patient says to hospital.

Payman Langroudi: But visiting someone, even the the most private hospitals. [01:11:25] Yeah, it feels awful. Still horrible. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, it’s been lovely to have you. [01:11:30] Yeah. Thank you. I always keep up with, uh, what’s going on in your biz every time I talk to Mahi. But [01:11:35] he’s he’s he’s definitely, uh, the way he said it to me is with, uh, Sarita. One [01:11:40] plus one equals seven.

Rhona Eskander: I know she’s a force. You can see that. Yeah. [01:11:45] You’ve been amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And if anyone does want to have a look [01:11:50] at the website or your social media channels, could you please spell it out for them? Yeah.

Sarita Stephanie: So it’s [01:11:55] amelie’s a m I l I s co.uk perfect. [01:12:00]

Rhona Eskander: And then the Instagram handle is just Amelia Bartlett.

Sarita Stephanie: Perfect.

Rhona Eskander: All right, guys, thank you so much. [01:12:05] Take care.