Since landing in London via Madrid and New York, Sandra Garcia Martin has made a name as one of cosmetic dentistry’s leading lights.

Sandra chats with Prav about the challenges of learning a new language to study dentistry, training with some of dentistry’s greatest in New York and why engaging with good causes should be on the curriculum for every clinician.



In This Episode

02.05 – Technics and artistry

11.50 – Cosmetics, composites and kudos

18.48 – Deciding on dentistry

26.34 – New York

32.51 – London

42.37 – Promotion and pricing

49.40 – Charity work

01.05.12 – Happiness and holidays

01.13.34 – Launching a course

01.22.55 – Women in dentistry

01.28.34 – Connecting with Sandra

01.30.34 – Blackbox thinking

01.36.12 – Fantasy dinner party

01.39.35 – Last days and legacy


About Sandra Garcia Martin

Sandra Garcia Martin graduated from Barcelona University in 2007. She completed master’s degrees in periodontology and dental implants and later in aesthetic dentistry at New York University. She has also trained with Larry Rosenthal and Mike Apa.

Sandra now practices in London, where she recently launched the Veneer School cosmetic dentistry course and online community.   

[00:00:00] SIf I could ask for a wish or a Dental wish, I would say every single university obliged. You know, if you think about how many dental schools we have in the world, and if every single one did, like, you know, one of the they would be called a charity. But everyone is obliged to every single year and divide it into the months that we have to do charity. It would be a different experience because we would be educating people. We wouldn’t just be treating. It’s all about prevention.

[00:00:36] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman, Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

[00:00:54] It gives me great pleasure to welcome Sandra Garcia martin onto the podcast. Sandra is an old friend of mine, one of London’s most prominent cosmetic dentists. Maybe known better to some as Sandra Big Smile, which she goes by on her social media where you can pick up and see her beautiful natural smile makeovers that she delivers. Sandra’s embraced fully. Dsd become a teacher on that, I think, and trained in Barcelona and did post-grad studies in New York, both formally in an MSC sort of setting and also with the famous Dr. APA and Rosenthal as well as that. What’s really lovely to see with Sandra is a natural way that she she sort of glides across the social scene of London into charity work. You know, a lovely to see both sides of that coin and one of for me, one of the most successful humans I know. Lovely to have you, Sandra.

[00:01:56] How much how much do I pay for that intro? The pleasure’s all mine. The pleasure’s all mine.

[00:02:05] Very nice to have you. Sandra, we know. Sandra, we tend to start these things with with where you’re born and all of that. But I want to sort of just start it with because I know you’re strong on the cosmetic dentistry, and I want to just go straight into something that I’m interested in as far as cosmetic dentistry is concerned, is the relevance of how important is the clinician, how important is the technician and you know, which bits of that can be taught?

[00:02:34] That’s a great question. I think that’s the dentist can be taught. Can better. Absolutely. And so can the technician. But the technician is an artist and I think is very difficult to develop. You either have it or you don’t. It’s like a music singer, right? You have the voice. You can improve your voice. But these incredible voices, you either have them or you don’t. Whereas I think as dentists, we have so many different ways of improving and the hand is a muscle at the end of the day, you know. But I think that’s the main difference when it comes to technician is all art from my point of view.

[00:03:15] But you know, you see some of the work of, I don’t know, Dr. Duval or someone.

[00:03:20] Yes. And it’s.

[00:03:21] So stunning. It’s so stunning. Now, I know it’s a silly question because it’s a combination of all things. It’s like someone saying to me, what’s more important in whitening the gel or the tray? Well, both of them are very important. So it’s not it’s not it’s a silly question in that sense. But but, you know, to what extent can I get the basic skills and then find out who Dr. Duval’s technician is and get results like him? You know what I mean?

[00:03:48] It’s I think it’s as a technician or as him as a clinician.

[00:03:51] He is a dentist, let’s say. I want to I want to produce work like him.

[00:03:55] I think you need if I.

[00:03:56] Had access to his technical team, would that be it or has he is he an artist who has an eye and he can’t be.

[00:04:02] Taught? Obviously, he has an eye as well. And it’s all you know, it’s teamwork, right? It’s all. I’ve spoken with many successful dentists and I say how and something that they can create that in their technicians. But I think it’s a teamwork and them understanding what you want because sometimes you can have it in your brain, but it’s so difficult to to try and create it. Right. But I think it’s possible 100%. You need the basic skills, you need the basic skills. And not everyone has soft hands and not everyone. I think that the big problem in the cosmetic world is that over prepping, I’m totally convinced this is this is a big issue.

[00:04:42] It makes life a lot easier, doesn’t it, when you have a prep to make beautiful teeth.

[00:04:48] Also can make things much more complicated with root can.

[00:04:51] Later on.

[00:04:53] Later on, as we know, every time you remove one of the restorations, you you touch again the teeth underneath. So if you have to and the less tooth structure there is, the worse, right? So so yeah, there’s no I think this you can’t overprepare nowadays. You have every single tool to plan things ahead. So if you do, it’s because clearly you don’t really care.

[00:05:19] I was I was. Well, if you if you’ve got the skills that is I was talking to Neil Gerard a couple of weeks ago and he was a technician and now he’s a dentist. And I was saying to him that, you know, as a dentist, you always want to cut less, particularly with with with porcelain. Let’s say you want to stay in enamel because you know the bone strength of enamel so much more. But as a technician, you always want your dentist to cut more, to make space for all the beautiful things you’re going to do, to make clearer margins and all that. And, you know, is there a sweet spot when you when you are a technician and you’re a dentist?

[00:05:54] Is this is.

[00:05:55] It you know, what? It where is that? And he said it’s very hard to explain it very hard.

[00:06:01] But let me tell you, like probably some of the best dentists I’ve met were technicians.

[00:06:07] Yeah. Christian, right?

[00:06:09] Yeah. Yeah. And then back home where I’m from, from Tenerife, my, my, my dentist, he was a family dentist is very successful and he’s incredibly talented. And he was he started as a technician, but he had the vision. It was for him, it was so much easier because, you know, sometimes we have doubts and we’re like, oh, they’ll figure it out. And he’s like, No, he’s like, The work will come back and it will not look like you wanted to look, you know? So maybe we should go back.

[00:06:36] And I wonder if there’s any dentists who who became dentists first and then became technician second. It’d be a very interesting person, that.

[00:06:43] Person I want to get to one maybe one day when we’re done with with interactive beings in the practice. I just want to talk to you.

[00:06:55] One other question, which I was talking to, actually, same to Neal about, is, you know, DSD. You’ve embraced DSD completely.

[00:07:01] Yes.

[00:07:02] How do you see DSD as a diagnostic thing or as a marketing thing?

[00:07:08] A bit of both. A bit of both. I think when it comes to incorporating implants in a small makeover, it’s definitely diagnostic. Definitely. When is to plan veneers? It’s more marketing, right? Because you’re doing your mock ups, you’re doing everything, but you don’t really need to go and plan it that way. You know, like the technician can do wax up and you can and you can you don’t have to do it the DSC way. It’s a method. It’s like a.

[00:07:36] Spell out the implant thing to be because you want to know where the bone is and all that.

[00:07:40] Exactly. Exactly. And the gums that you want to know how, how much grafting you’re going to have to do where because they were DSD, you work around a CT scan so you know exactly what you’re working with. Right.

[00:07:54] So you can you can layer the CT scan into the facial.

[00:07:57] Exactly.

[00:07:58] Is that right? I didn’t even know that.

[00:07:59] Laser implants. Amazing. Like like that. They will end up being with a smile that you’ve designed from the beginning. It’s amazing. That is amazing. Again, I don’t do implants, but the cases that I’ve seen, they take forever. That’s also true. But the results are outstanding. Yeah.

[00:08:17] And then this new thing that’s come a long way, they put the jig, the prep jig on the tooth. What’s that called? Sure, sure. Smile. No.

[00:08:25] What they jig on the tooth. Yes. And then what’s that called. The company will come to me. Will come to me. The thing is that I find that. That that’s for people that. Don’t they’re not comfortable with prepping, you know, because it is a guide so that you don’t over prep. So for people that are not comfortable, definitely. Yes. You know, but it’s the same as using a guide. The preparation guide is the same. It’s just silicone prep. It will not allow you to go any further. Right. So it’s yeah, it’s a way of prepping and so.

[00:09:01] Have you tried it? No.

[00:09:03] Yes, I’ve tried it, but that’s why it was really uncomfortable for me. It was like, you know, I’m faster prepping my way with with the guides and then with with the reduction handpiece that to control the margins and to control the final.

[00:09:19] It’s a funny thing.

[00:09:19] Is it’s a.

[00:09:20] Funny thing where you’re at the cutting edge of something and you know, you’ve been doing something really super successfully one way. And then a new way comes along. And maybe the new way hasn’t quite. It’s not quite there like scanning, for instance. And you think, well, I’ve been doing something perfectly up to now and that leap and and when to leap you know, because you were quite early on the DSD thing for instance. Right.

[00:09:49] Very early. I met Christian. I mean, he was working for the Salama Brothers. So, so. And it was all an idea. And I remember his presentation at the OECD in which was in was it Boston? Can’t remember. I think it was Boston. And I was like fascinated with this guy. And he was a technician and he started with his video camera recording things and talking a little bit about the whole concept. This was like when no one was really paying attention and then to see everything that he’s developed. You know, when we used to go to the courses and used to paint the things and with the teeth and and to see what he’s created now, it’s like, wow, you know, made.

[00:10:33] Me so happy. If you could tell me that he wasn’t as polished as a speaker back then.

[00:10:38] It probably his English wasn’t because.

[00:10:41] He’s so polished.

[00:10:42] Now, but it was very good he would engage with people straight away. I remember that that that main room was packed and and it was Morris presenting and then he came after. And of course it was packed because of the Salomon Brothers, but everyone stayed and. Yeah, and we were all fascinated, you know, so, so yeah. That what you were saying about, about trying new things. Yeah, I used to. I haven’t played for a long time. Every now and then I play golf, but I used to play with my, with my dad when I was little. And I remember once the teacher telling me, because I would say, no, I want to do it this way. And he said, you know, Tiger Woods when he was number one in the world. Right. That he was ready, number one. And his coach made him change the grip completely because he was getting I can’t remember what it was. It was some extra something. Yeah, something. And he had to start from zero and I was like, but why would he do that when he’s number one? And he said, Because he wants to continue being number one. And he went back to, you know, like losing everything. And because the grip had changed and I thought, wow, yeah, it’s one of those things.

[00:11:50] Tell me, tell me about when a patient comes to you, are they how often is it that they’ve looked into the work and thereafter the kind of smile that you make? Because we we hear it a lot nowadays with people wanting big teeth. I think it’s more in the in the north than than in the south. But, you know, the the trends for big teeth without embraces and I don’t see you putting any of those out. Now, have you ever had a patient that’s asked for that and, you know, you’ve talked them out of it? Is that how you do it?

[00:12:20] Well, I don’t talk them out of that. I just send them somewhere else. I don’t talk of the day. I think that people, you know, a patient wants something they might give in. And if I give something else, they’re still not going to be happy. So I think it’s important to to have that conversation where you go, okay, listen, this is not my style, like the really white teeth. I remember years ago I had this thing with the production company of All the Way Essex or one of these programmes with Chelsea. I don’t I don’t watch TV. Everyone that knows me knows I don’t watch TV, so I never watch these programmes. But it was one of these programmes and this girl came and she, she’s like, No, but I want this colour. And I said, it’s going to look terrible. I mean, you know, you’re going to walk out and you’ll smile and everyone will stare you not because you’re beautiful that you are, but because of the smile. And I was having this conversation and then it was like talking to a wall. I said, You know what? I said, experience gives you that in years, right? Because part of me was like, okay, let me do it. But then I said, No, it’s against what I believe is right. And when she goes somewhere else and they say, Who did this for you? They say, my name. I’ll be horrified. So I said, I’m so sorry. I’m going to refer you to another colleague. I will not do this. So so I think. Yeah.

[00:13:35] So who did you refer to? I don’t mean give me the name of the dentist, but like what? How did you decide who to refer to for that?

[00:13:42] Well, she had a list of people.

[00:13:44] Referred to someone up north.

[00:13:48] You would be surprised. You would be surprised. But they did it. They did it because that’s where where.

[00:13:53] Sandra, you know, you couldn’t survive up north with that attitude, though. You could you couldn’t. Listen, I’ve got I’ve got I’ve got direct experience of Liverpool and Manchester because, you know, enlightened cells up there.

[00:14:05] Yeah, of course.

[00:14:05] More than it sells down here and.

[00:14:08] They know normal.

[00:14:09] Well our biggest users were always from the north west. Never, never from London. And also we do the composites now and the super bright composite that one sells up up there. And when you go up there and you meet the people, that that question of people will be looking at your teeth. They want that. That’s what they want. They want people to know they’ve done something.

[00:14:30] Wow.

[00:14:31] It’s part of the. That’s what I’m saying. It’s part of the culture. Of course, we have we have the same types of people down here as well. And by the way, the US, I’ve noticed it’s kind of like a kudos thing. I’ve had my teeth done and in a way want people to know that they’ve had their teeth done. But that’s definitely not the work you’re showing at all. It’s it’s beautifully subtle.

[00:14:56] In aesthetic respect, comfortable with that. Right. So I think that’s yeah, that’s and I always get asked Do you have an ear? See you. And I said, no, I have, you know, I have some bond in the tooth that I that I broke but I don’t have I think yeah. Natural is, is the best way forward. This is what I believe. By the way, how good was that course that you guys do the mini or do you still do it?

[00:15:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re busy.

[00:15:22] With it. I love it. I love it. I love that.

[00:15:25] It’s a problem. It’s a problem, though, that composite composite is becoming an issue now because you see it everywhere, pasted on everyone’s teeth. And that same question. Right, the same question as we’re saying right now with composites, even a bigger issue, because, you know, you haven’t got the technicians artistic time to make things look more natural. But at the same time, this is what I’m saying to you about about certain certain cultures when I think, you know, the North and the south or wherever certain people want super, super white. And then and then we come to this question of how much of it is is the dentists sort of reputation on the line? And how much of it is it that we do what we’re told as dentists, we give the patient what they want? You know, I think it’s an important debate.

[00:16:11] Yeah. I think if you if you want to become rich, being a dentist, probably you have to you have to say yes to every single case. But for me, it’s about sleeping at night. You know, with my conscious.

[00:16:27] You’re talking about an aesthetic conscience. It’s a weird thing. It’s a weird thing because, you know, the prep could be the exact same prep.

[00:16:33] Yeah, totally. Totally. And the thing with composites, I think there’s a lack of information as well. People think that they’re going to last forever. And like you were, you were saying at your course. I remember you said, you know, you have to put the fees up because that person will break it, it will stain. And then they expect, you know, to be seen for free. So where do you draw the line?

[00:16:57] If we spend a lot of the course talking talking about how you talk people out of out of composites as well, you know, that’s a there is compound. With composite more than they do with porcelain. You know, when you’ve put a small, you know better than me, right? If you put a small little step in a composite, that’s definitely going to stay. There’s no doubt about it. Right.

[00:17:21] That’s the thing. That’s, again, down to technique, right? Yeah. And yeah, like you need to and you need to know who can do it better than you. And if it’s like a case where they want to do the whole smile and, you know, and then you’re not comfortable, just don’t do it because it will look great. Three months and then it will start. Like you say, if you leave those little edges, it will start staining.

[00:17:43] And and what about you? Are you ideological about pressed or telepathic?

[00:17:50] It depends on the case. Totally depends on the case of the occlusion. Yeah, 100%. Then then obviously talking with the technician, you know what they say? Because for example, sometimes it will be a case that I say, okay, let’s just sue everything else, and the technician will come along and say, Well, why don’t we do this one and here and this one? So it really depends. It really depends on the case. So I use a lot of zirconia as well.

[00:18:16] For composite?

[00:18:17] No, not for veneers.

[00:18:18] For veneers, sorry.

[00:18:19] But not for veneers, but for crowns.

[00:18:23] Let’s get back to some of your back story. So you grew up in the Canary Islands?

[00:18:27] Yes. Vanity Fair, Tenerife? Yeah. I have to say correctly.

[00:18:35] If I remember you, your mum’s a doctor?

[00:18:37] Yes, a gynaecologist. Well, she’s retired now, but yes. So she comes from a family of doctors and her side was only dentists.

[00:18:48] Do you remember when dentistry was on your on your sort of radar? At what age was that and why?

[00:18:56] To be honest, it was never on my radar. I was just always fascinated with the first thing I look at. People are the smiles always. Since I’m little, I would be fascinated with it with smiles. And it wasn’t until I was coming close to having to decide what to study. And then I said to my mum, Look, I’m not sure if I want to be a doctor, a vet, a dentist or a movie producer, a music producer like Och. So she said, Okay, how about you do a month and everything, you know, into shape and everything that you that you like. So of course, you know, being in a hospital and seeing people die, it was like a horrifying story. So so I said, I can’t do this. You know, this is too much responsibility. No, I can’t do this. And then I started doing all these things. I still love music. I love movies and production. I love production. But I went to I would dentists and I’ll never forget there was this lady in the waiting room and she came in and she was like, hardly, you know, she had learned how to not smile. And then, like not long after, she came out smiling and I was so fascinated. And then I started working with him, which is watching, doing over the shoulder and and the cases that he would do. He’s an immunologist as well. But I was just fascinated and I thought, wow, I want to be able to do this, you know? So I was just attracted because I said this has arts, this has teeth that I love and the power of being able to to give a smile. So this is everything together. So yeah, I hated it at first, the first probably year. I really.

[00:20:35] Dental.

[00:20:36] School. Yeah. I said I’m giving up. This is not for me.

[00:20:39] Is there? Is there a dental school in the Canary Islands?

[00:20:42] No, no, no, there isn’t.

[00:20:43] So you knew you were leaving home and.

[00:20:45] Yeah, yeah. Which I was very happy about and.

[00:20:50] Why Barcelona was was it was Barcelona for the fun of it or was it the.

[00:20:55] School I was the fun is in Madrid. I wanted to go to Madrid, but my brother, he’s an architect. He was studying already in Barcelona. So it’s just two of us. And my parents said no, both together and I was. And then I got there and I had to learn Catalan, which I didn’t even know I had to learn another language. Right. So it was like science, you know, you get always the first two years of anything you get, the worse you get the chemistry, the maths, things that you don’t really you’re like, I don’t need this become basics, the basics. And in a different language. I was like, What is this? But yeah.

[00:21:33] So it’s actually taught in Catalan.

[00:21:35] Yes, yes. They were not meant to legally. They’re not meant to write. But what happens that many people don’t know? Once you’re there, it’s their rules and that’s it. So it depended on the faculty. So the first day when they started, it was the biology teacher. Biology teacher and I literally could not understand a word. So then I put my hand up and I said, Sorry, you know, I’m from Canary Islands, I have no idea of Catalan. And he said, What’s your name? And everyone kept like, Ooh, you know, he’s going to fail this one. So I said my name, I gave him my name and he said, Och, where September, I’m going to give you till January. Whenever, after Christmas we would go back these months for you to learn Catalan. He’s like, After in January I will start again teaching Catalan. And I was like, Och, you challenging me? So I had no other way. But because it wasn’t just him, there were many other teachers and they would start talking Spanish and that they would. It’s the nature and they would.

[00:22:36] Switch in.

[00:22:37] Switching. So at the end I ended up like getting notes in Catalan because it was easier than translating, right?

[00:22:43] What did you do to learn? I guess when you’re immersed in it, you learn quickly anyway.

[00:22:48] Not so quickly because I don’t know French. I can’t speak. I can speak Italian, but not French. And it’s a mixture between French, Italian and Spanish. So. So I just had to start reading press, watching TV and Catalan going to classes of course. And it was not easy. It was not easy, but I said, I can do it. But the funny thing is that I lived with my brother and the building knew we were from Canary Islands. And no one would speak in Spanish to us. No one said. But you got to understand. So, yeah, this is this is how it is. But it’s an amazing city. And my best friends are there.

[00:23:28] Did you consider did you consider dropping out at that point?

[00:23:31] I did. But then I called my mom, I think not not there, but probably two months in because it was a lot. It was a lot. All the classes and having to translate everything and getting, you know, the Spanish person that new Catalan. So it was a lot. So and then studying on top, right. But I called my mom and she said, och, she said, But you need to have a plan B, C and Z before you quit. And I didn’t. So I said, okay. She said, What did you say.

[00:24:01] International superstar?

[00:24:05] Well, my brother was doing a lot of that behind my back. He was partying every day.

[00:24:11] And he had the same problem. He had to learn Catalan, too.

[00:24:14] Yeah, he did. He did? Yeah. That’s why it took him so long. Yeah, but we had a great time. And it’s. I mean, it’s a beautiful city apart from from that little language issue.

[00:24:28] So, you know, I’m kind of a believer in the idea that you are the same person as the kid that you were, you know? What kind of a kid were you? One of these.

[00:24:39] Never give up.

[00:24:41] Responsible?

[00:24:42] Yeah.

[00:24:42] I was the oldest.

[00:24:44] No, I’m the youngest. But I’ve always had this role of being mothering. So I was very conscious of my parents were spending. We’re working really hard to spend the money that was spending for us to study abroad. So I was not one of these that would go crazy and like spend all the money and party and not I don’t say me wrong, I would have fun, but I was very much into doing the right thing all the time. But as a kid, the same I was always, you know, and it was a later that I had to let go of that. But yeah, because I would always if something bad was done, I would feel like awful about it, you know? And I’m the youngest of both sides of the family and of course the ones above are all male, and they would always be up to no good. Well, you can’t say anything. This is really.

[00:25:36] The funny thing is stress has a way of finding its way to you, isn’t it? Because let’s say you’re you’re you, that person who needs everything in its place and discipline as soon as something goes out of place now stresses in your life. Whereas if you’re me who just let stuff slide, eventually something slides too far and stress comes in. At that point, it’s kind of like a timing issue, but stress will come in life, whoever, whoever you are.

[00:26:04] I think that’s how I started meditating, to bring the to take the stress away so nothing would bother me.

[00:26:09] How long have you been meditating? A long time or recently?

[00:26:12] No, no, long time. It’s been probably seven or eight years. Yeah. Really? Yeah, but that’s what it brought. It brought peace. I would stress a lot at work. And that’s like, it’s okay, you know, unless they do something like really, you know, there’s a big mess up or Yeah, then definitely.

[00:26:34] So then you qualify. What stopped you? Just going back to Tenerife and setting up a family practice. What made you then start looking at New York and all of that?

[00:26:44] I’m just not that person.

[00:26:46] You’re not that cat?

[00:26:47] No, I definitely I definitely wanted to go to New York. It was a city that the first time I went, I was ten, I think ten or 11. And I was fascinated. And I said at one point in my life, I’m going to live here. And then, funny enough, two of my very good friends from a different island from Canary Islands, they’re both very successful dancers now. And they they’re older than me. They’re my brother’s age. But they went to NYU and they told me, you know, they have amazing programs. You should come. So, yeah, I was I was this is what I wanted to do. So I did go back to work for like six months, more or less while I was doing my paperwork. But I also knew I had two options. I said I wait and make the money to then pay for it. But everyone kept saying, once you get into that dynamic, it’s very difficult to come out and take two years, three years off, right? Or I work for a little bit, do all my paperwork and just go and ask for a loan. So that’s the path. And then it was interesting because those six months I met my now sister in law, she was a dentist at the clinic I was working. So she always says, you came back just to introduce me to your brother.

[00:28:01] Is she an American?

[00:28:03] No, no, no, no. She’s she’s from from Tenerife. I went back.

[00:28:07] Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And the programme that you joined in NYU, what was that?

[00:28:14] So I did. I did period. And plus with Tana and then I did aesthetics after that. So it was a very expensive I ended up I don’t know how long it took me to pay for all that. A lot people were buying flats and I was paying for for my my programmes but I don’t which.

[00:28:34] You was this.

[00:28:36] This was 2006 2007.

[00:28:41] Yeah so but interesting time right for for young Sandra in New York. I guess that that was the time when actually it was after 9/11. So New York was in a bit of a down.

[00:28:55] Down trend. Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:57] Yeah, yeah. But what was your feeling? What was your feeling in New York? I mean, apart from the obvious excitement of seeing these big, big, big buildings and all that, did it live up to expectations or no?

[00:29:08] Yeah. Yeah, it was every day was was full of energy and you didn’t know where you would end up. I mean, the programme was very intense, so you would start like 730, you would start and you would probably leave at 8 p.m., you know, it was like full on, but then everything was possible. I mean it’s a city where everything is possible. The people that you meet, I had something very like I said, I don’t want to hang around. I mean, I went to hang out with Spanish, but not so much. I want to really experience what New York is. And every day, every day, I mean, many of my colleagues were there would party and then show up at the clinic without sleeping and this kind of stuff. Physically, I’m not that kind of person that can do that and then have my brain functioning. But yeah, you would all the stories and then you would get invited to this incredible place. And then with people that were your best friends and then you’ll never see them again. You know, they had a lot of that. A lot of that. Yeah. On the go. Always on the go.

[00:30:10] The Hamptons. Did you go there?

[00:30:12] Yes, yes, yes, yes. Now, every every faculty at NYU had a house in the Hamptons, so. Yeah. And they were really they’re really nice international people. So they would always invite you for weekends and everyone’s really open. Like, really. Yeah. And they all invite you to their clinics to, to, to, to watch. Everything was very, very open. They, they not as that’s what I love. American Idol. The other day with Christian, I was saying the same thing. It’s the teamwork. It’s not about you be an individual and you not sharing. It was all about sharing. It was a total opposite and and having fun while you while you work. So yeah, I loved it. I would have stayed. I would have stayed. To work. Why don’t you? My mum got ill at the time, so I had to make the decision of coming back to Europe. Otherwise I would have said. I’m pretty sure I would have. Yeah.

[00:31:05] Oh. So. So was this before, during or after the whole Larry?

[00:31:12] No, this was before. Then I. Then I came back and then I started going back to do. To do. Volunteer after the idea that that was that was interesting because at the time when I met Mike, he was no, he had finished, but he was like, you know, it was the beginning. So he was just a faculty that would just be watching around and like helping out. So another thing to see what he’s created now, it’s outstanding.

[00:31:44] It’s nice to see. It’s nice to see. I was I was talking to Larry about that. And he was saying how proud he is that he’s taken something that Larry started and then made it even more. And I remember when when when Mike was going to do that, was going to buy in, I remember thinking, you know, that’s quite a quite a big thing that he’s bought into and must have paid whatever amount that big thing was worth and whatever they did a deal. But, you know, that’s that’s quite a big thing to try and grow and look look what he’s doing.

[00:32:18] He had a vision. He had a vision. And his vision is wait, wait till you see what the next step is. It’s going to get even bigger. But yeah, he has a vision and probably everyone thought he was crazy for what he was doing. And I think he was the pioneer in all the social media, having a camera crew, like following him and all this kind of stuff. He started all that. So all the credit, you might like it a little. You might like it or not, but you have to give the credit for what what he’s achieved. Definitely.

[00:32:51] For sure. For sure. So then tell me about your move to London. Why London?

[00:32:59] Good question. So it was basically the faculties at NYU. Spain was in the big crisis when I was coming back and they said, Why don’t you try London? Cosmetic dentistry started to be. I said, London, really bad weather cloud. This is all white cold. But then I came without a plan. And look, it’s been I don’t know how many years. Many.

[00:33:22] When was it was it post-financial crisis? When Spain was in a state.

[00:33:26] Yeah.

[00:33:27] Yeah. 28.

[00:33:28] Nine around then. Yeah. No, later. No, I came later. I came 2000. It’s 2009. At the end of 2009, 2010.

[00:33:39] We come to London. Did you know anyone?

[00:33:42] Did I know anyone? I knew the ex of a very good friend in New York. Iranian guy. That he was lovely. He is lovely, gentle, wise. I knew one lady that she. I can. I can say her name and Monica Bijlani. Maybe you know her.

[00:33:59] I know Monica. I know.

[00:34:00] Yes. So Monica had found me through I don’t know who and contacted me and said, I know you’re doing you know, I know you’re studying. And I would love to come and see how it works. So I invited her to to join us the whole day in the clinic. She was exhausted. I was doing I think I was doing a graft. I think it was my first tunnel technique or something. And it took hours. I mean, what we would do with the patients for poor people. And she was like, she came to just hang out. So she was horrified after, I don’t know, 5 hours. She said, I’m going to leave now. So. So, yeah, I knew her. I knew her. And she was already I think she had her practice in Harley Street already by that time.

[00:34:48] And so but still, that’s not many people. And Monica is a very connected person herself. But that’s not that’s not a lot of people. Did you have a feeling of, you know, for me, it takes five years to settle into a new country? Did you did you have that five year bit or did you feel at home quicker?

[00:35:06] Let me tell you what I struggled. I struggled a little bit with getting used to London, getting used to the people, the things, because it’s a complete different. So that’s what I struggled with. No, I was never scared of making friends or I never do. You know, my problem many times is I don’t think I’ll just go. Let’s go. And then sometimes it’s great, but sometimes it’s like, why didn’t you step back, count to ten before you did that? Right.

[00:35:33] So because you trust your instinct maybe, huh? This is quite instinctual.

[00:35:38] Probably. I just said, yeah, fine, we’ll go. And it was a bit of a especially the energy I remember getting in the tube and no energy, no energy, nobody talks cos too loud and everyone stares at you and it’s like, whoa, this place. Not sure if I’m going to connect with anyone here. And that, that rhythm and I always had like a foot in, a foot out, know I wasn’t to. I wasn’t too sure to commit it to the city. Until until that changed? I think it was three years, probably.

[00:36:09] It’s just London’s a slow burn. Man, it is. Because especially compared to somewhere like New York, for sure. Although what you said is very true about in America, you do get sometimes someone who you think is your best friend. And then it was just a conversation they had.

[00:36:26] Here you can build community and you can build.

[00:36:29] But it’s funny because you’ve got a very, very unique perspective. You’ve got kind of the Latin perspective, if you want to call it that. The American and now the London. I’m not going to call London European at all because London is very different to other European.

[00:36:42] Yes, of course. But that Latin thing is what you see. You have that in New York and here you now there’s so many Spanish people and Latinos here. But but when I first came, it wasn’t like that. So I think that was one of the biggest struggles that I was like, I need my people. Where are they? You know? So how would you assess.

[00:37:00] How do you assess the three different societies? And I don’t mean you need to rank them or anything, but because you’ve got this kind of, you know, brilliant, you’ve lived and worked in three totally different societies. What are the what are the pros and cons? I mean, let me give you an example. I just got back from Spain myself, and I’ve been going to my parents have a place in Marbella, so I’ve been going a few years in a row. The lady who works in the cafe down the road from our house, when I was leaving, she, you know, she hugged me and kissed me and and said, boy, and, you know, see you next year and all this. And I turn around to my dad and I said, I’ve been living in London for 42 years or something. No cafe person ever hugged me.

[00:37:43] That’s my that’s my biggest struggle always, because I am a very warm person because of my background. So my biggest struggle is always that. And sometimes I’m so used to the dynamic here that when I go back home and I’ll be walking in the street and imagine there’s no one in the street and you cross someone, they’ll be like, Hi, how are you? Have a nice day. And I even get shot from it. I don’t know, you should imagine that. But that’s that’s how I grew up. So I think going back to New York, that community of Latino, they struggle so much as well because every Latino in Manhattan, for example, they either have a really awful job or the ones that made it, they kind of want to forget where they come from many times because they want to be accepted. And what do I take? I mean, they’re amazing people, but probably not the most hardworking, I must say, because of the culture. Everything’s relaxed, very relaxed. Whereas Americans are on the go, you know, you think you wake up early and it is always like thousands of people that woke up before you. They do have the teamwork that I love. And I think, as you know, to get further, you always need people, you know.

[00:38:55] The can do the can do that, the never.

[00:38:58] Ending. They’re reinventing that. Everything is possible. It was, you know, when I went there, I said, wow, I can also do like my music stuff and I can do photography or anything I want to do. Because in Spain, for example, you study law, you die being a lawyer, you study medicine, you die being a doctor, and it’s like there everyone reinvents himself all the time. Oh, no, I’m done with this. I’m going to be a painter. Great. And everything’s possible. So they really they inject that. But then.

[00:39:28] Look, basically based on what we’re saying, then on paper, you’re making America sound to be the kind of the place to be. But I’d rather live in London than.

[00:39:36] In.

[00:39:37] America.

[00:39:38] That’s right. So what are the things?

[00:39:40] Yeah, what are the things that.

[00:39:41] The downside is? It can be very fake. It can be very fake.

[00:39:47] A little bit aggressive. A little bit aggressive, too.

[00:39:50] Yes. Especially in New York. So so then, you know, it’s difficult for you to to to connect to true level with people because you never know whoever like you think is your friend. And then you turn around and they stab you in the back. So that’s that’s the they’re very friendly, very open, very this, very that. But then there’s another side. Again, this is being generalising, right? There’s another side that you’re like, whoa, I did not see that coming, you know? So obviously I don’t like that. I rather you’re cold and honest from day one that you’re really nice and then, you know, dishonest. 100%. 100%. Yeah. And then London’s mixture, I mean, of course it’s not it doesn’t reflect the UK, but in the UK there also, it depends where you go. You know, there are also people that I think the people get warmer towards towards south, maybe north like north.

[00:40:44] Oh, south London, you mean.

[00:40:46] No, no, no. I mean it. South of the country. It depends.

[00:40:49] In the north are definitely warmer, the north are definitely warmer. And in Wales I studied in Cardiff.

[00:40:55] Yes.

[00:40:55] In Wales I’m sure in Scotland there’s more of that sort of family warmth than you get in London. London is a funny town, man. I mean, it’s probably closer. Such a New York than it is to Wales national people.

[00:41:09] You know.

[00:41:10] It’s a funny town. But what I love about it is that sort of it doesn’t matter. I go out in the street, it doesn’t matter if I’m dressed up or shaved or.

[00:41:19] Yes.

[00:41:19] No one gives a damn how I look.

[00:41:22] Slim. Totally.

[00:41:23] That no one cares. And I got that feeling in Berlin, you know, it was like no one gives a damn what you look like. No one’s paying attention to you. Whereas I notice in in Spain, for instance, you know, when the families, families are gathering around in the squares and all that, which is beautiful, it’s a lovely thing, right? You see the grandparents and and the little babies and all that in the evenings. And it’s a wonderful thing, but people are kind of dressed up and people are talking a lot. I’m sure a lot of the talking is about each other, right?

[00:41:57] This is, of course, the gossip. The gossip. And if people love gossip, you know, I go back home and I and I laugh because my my friends from my childhood, friends from school and it doesn’t matter. It’s like watching one of these series that it doesn’t matter if you start an episode three or 300. Not a lot has happened. So the same thing they’ll be talking about the same neighbour, they’ll be talking about, you know what, who did this to that? And it’s like, Oh my God. That’s when you realise you say Clearly I’ve changed because you know, people just living the same way they did. It’s me that’s changed, right?

[00:42:37] So tell me about look, becoming a successful cosmetic dentist takes a lot of things, right? It takes it takes the clinical skills. It takes a bunch of psychological. So IQ things where you understand people and you have to it’s a big thing with cosmetics particularly, but then it takes some promotional skills. And I noticed, you know, I remember I don’t necessarily say, oh, that’s the year you arrived, but but I remember pre Sandra in in London and it feels like you’ve come and you’ve ingrained in society and you know, a bunch of people and you do a bunch of fun things and, and all that. And then on the social side, you’ve got a reputation for, for really beautiful work and all that. So let’s talk a little bit about the promotional let’s call it the promotional side of becoming a successful cosmetic dentist. I mean, would you say someone introverted could become a successful cosmetic dentist or or not?

[00:43:37] I’d say it’s difficult. Well, the.

[00:43:39] App is introverted.

[00:43:42] Yes and no. Yes and no. But I think you have to be extrovert to meet people. It depends what? It depends why people come to you if it’s because you’ve paid for the marketing or if it’s word of mouth. In my case, it’s always been word of mouth, which I’m grateful for. Right. So then it’s yeah, it’s it’s just it develops. And then, of course, I was lucky to have one famous person that was happy and then brought another famous actress singer or whatever it was. So then you start with that, you know, and then you meet the production company and then you meet the. The football agent. And. But but you have to. You have to interact with people. If you sit and you do nothing and expect for them to come, it’s very difficult. That didn’t work for me. You know, I had to get out there. The first thing I did when I when I moved here was get in touch with the Spanish Embassy, because I said it must be a lot of Spanish people. So, you know, Spanish people, not everyone speaks English very well, so they’ll be more comfortable speaking Spanish. That was a good way to to get in, because then they have a lot of big companies with a lot of workers and then you just you just create a contact there.

[00:44:58] Did that work? So that worked out well? Did it?

[00:45:00] That worked well. The problem is that Spanish people, when it comes to they’re quite stingy, even though they’re getting salaries from, you know, getting salaries from the UK, they’re still they still think in their back prices. Spanish prices. Yeah. So and of course when you’re not the owner of the clinic, there’s only so much you can do to help. Then the companies that were based here, even though there was Spanish, that would help them pay or have like a health insurance or something like that, then it was much easier. It was definitely much easier.

[00:45:30] And let’s talk about price objection. Then if you present a case to a to a patient.

[00:45:37] Yeah.

[00:45:38] And you can feel that they trust you. And they suddenly say, Yeah, but it’s too expensive. Do you ever do? Shift on price? You do them a deal.

[00:45:48] I should my nurses all the time. They tell me off. They like Sandra. When it comes to that, I always want to. I have this thing. I’ve always wanted to help people. I’m like, I want you to get this done. You need this. So, so I’m terrible. With the years, I’m learning to be more inflexible when it comes to price. It all depends. I think you always have to to work backwards. You have to say, okay, how much is the laptop going to be? How many visits is this person going to take? How much can I do this for? You know, and but yeah, if it’s someone complicated because as you know, there are many complicated human beings around that it’s going to take is going to be emailing you back and forward is going to take a lot of your effort then these kind of people like I’m less flexible with because I already know it’s going to be a stress, you know, but if it’s someone that yeah. That and I also depend on what it is. If it’s someone that says, oh, they need three implants and I know they’re not going to make it and they’re from another country, I say, I’m happy to refer you to your country if you go on holiday and then I’ll do, for example, an implant and I’ll do the crowns. You know, you try to help you try to help in that way. But as you know, a practice in in London and it’s expensive materials are expensive, especially now after Brexit is even more expensive. So there’s only so much you can you can do.

[00:47:12] I think working in you work in homemade and payments.

[00:47:16] Sarbanes practice it’s, it’s, it’s almost practice. Yeah.

[00:47:19] Oh it’s practice. Yeah. And I remember talking to Payman and he was saying they don’t even have a website and you know, they’re all about sort of making people happy and getting word of mouth referrals and all that said that that setting must be sort of the right setting. They let you let you do surprise and delight. Fun things for patients, I guess, right?

[00:47:41] Yeah. And he’s a wonderful he’s been like the best present I could have received being in London from from a mentor point of view. He’s just learning, watching him interacting with people. Yeah, he’s strong. He’s a great human being. He really is. And then his work is fantastic and you learn a lot from him. And he’s a person that always wants to learn from others as well, you know, and always sharing. And, and he’s yeah. Really humble. I absolutely adore him. He’s like family. I mean, it’s like family to me. So, so yeah. And I think we’re I’m very privileged because I’ve worked in other dental practices and and now I know what’s good and what’s not when it comes to to people and how they treat you and what they do to you. So having someone that just says, listen, whatever you do, I want every single patient that walks out of this clinic to have a Ferrari in the mouth. That is that says it. All right. That says it all.

[00:48:42] That’s the dream. And and the practice itself is super nice.

[00:48:45] It’s beautiful. Yes. We change location. We were at 100 for an hour, 107. And it’s beautifully done. It’s really, really nice here. And I forget. And then I’ll get patients in and they’re like, Oh, wow, what? And I keep forgetting that I’m so lucky to work in a place like this, you know? Yeah.

[00:49:04] Even the previous one was one of my favourite practices that were the movie posters and all that. It was stunning, stunning.

[00:49:10] Place had the movie places, the thing is right, which is something that, as you know, in New York, it shocks you the most famous dentists, and they’ll have like really small rooms where, yeah, they can hardly fit with a system there. And I think the experience changes a lot, especially we have a profession that the majority of people that come, they have fear of dentists. So creating a place with space and an atmosphere that is non dental, helps a lot. Helps a lot, definitely does. Yeah.

[00:49:40] Tell me about the charity work because I love seeing you with Lenny Kravitz, helping children. You know, how did that come about? What did you get out of it?

[00:49:52] Wow. What I get out of it is to. To love my profession again, that’s for sure. Because doing the majority.

[00:50:01] Difference, isn’t it? Cosmetic dentists in London.

[00:50:04] You know, helping kids, it it grounds you. I think that especially the last mission that we did hopefully this year will do one. It was I was coming to a point where I wasn’t happy anymore doing what I was doing because, you know, you treat a lot of vanity and it was like, is this really what I want to do? I love doing it. But then, you know, I’m really making a difference. And then you go to a place where, you know, you people live with pain. People you walk around people with swollen faces because they have an infected tooth that’s been there for years, you know, and the perspective just changes. And they’re so grateful for every single thing you can do to relieve that pain that you’re like, Wow, you know, with my hands, I can actually make a difference. And then I then I say, okay, this, this is what I’m meant to be doing. I want to do more charity 100%. I want to do more throughout the year because it’s my I’ve realised it’s my really happy place. And the thing with Lenny that you were saying, my mentor from New York is Dr. Jonathan Levin. And Lenny has been a patient of his for many years and they’ve developed a friendship. And he was the one that said, you know, I have a house in this little island and it’s really poor and people don’t have access to dental care.

[00:51:22] And, you know, if someone says the Bahamas and you’re like, yeah, right. Because you don’t know that there are many islands in the Bahamas and the majority and fortunately, really poor, really poor. There might be one that you can see from here and it’s like full of billionaires. And then this one is really poor. So. Yes, so he he was the one that said, you know, why don’t you bring your team? And at the beginning, it was like just a small team. And then the team has got bigger. And every year you invite like a guest. I took last time a dentist from here. He’s Spanish, but he works here in London. And my nurse, Nasim, she worked my God, she works so much. I did tell her, I said, You’re ready for this. She was like, Yeah, but she was. It makes such a difference when you work with someone in the heat. No. Ac, you’re sweating. You start really early. They were queuing up from like six in the morning and to have someone vibing in a positive way and say, yes, come on. And when your back is killing you, because obviously, you know, imagine the chair. It’s like two positions sitting and, you know, completely flat. And she made it. She made the trip. She made it worthwhile, honestly. I mean.

[00:52:37] Jonathan Levine, one of my one of my heroes with actually not not for this reason, because of the ghost smile stuff that he did with his wife. But it’s nice to hear that he’s got this side of it as well. So how does Lenny Kravitz fit into that?

[00:52:51] Well, because he’s from not from there. He has a house there and. Oh, I see. So at the beginning, it was all very under the radar. He didn’t want any publicity of him. But now they have they have a toothpaste brand, which is obviously from Jonathan, but it’s his kids with him. And now they’re trying to because every time you buy one of the it’s called twice. So every time you buy a tooth, nice percentage goes to to the charity. So now he’s much more and he just comes and hangs out. I mean, he he loves it. So that’s why it’s always very difficult because he’s either on tour or recording or and we also need a physical space because all this was done in the church. So the church was everything was removed and the dental chairs come in and and that’s why it’s quite limited, I think. I’m not sure if I told you the story that the last the last mission that we did, the last patient, everyone was wrapping up already and Lenny was hosting us at his house and I was the only one working. And then all of a sudden, the music is really loud because obviously the louder the music, the more you’re awake right after so many hours and in the heat and all of a sudden there’s this. This lady walks in and she needed five root canals mowed. And every single anterior tooth, she she couldn’t smile. She had a smile for years. She was in pain, mean one of these massive cases. And I looked at my nurses and she said, We can do this. Come on, Sandra, we can do this. I said, okay, anyway. And every time I was remove and decay, it was everything was a mess. And all of a sudden power cuts. And I thought it was a joke. I thought the lights went off. I said, okay, the.

[00:54:28] Third welcome to the third world.

[00:54:30] I said, Come on. Right, put the lights back on the light. No, there’s no power in the whole island. Once and I had just removed all the decay and the root canal, so I was ready to restore. I said, No, no, no, no, no, no, this is not happening and it’s pitch black. So everyone gathered with their loops. Everyone was giving me light, I. Really like. It was hard. It was really hard. The position I have a lot of back problems. I was, I was. And then all of a sudden when I finish, I’m like finishing polishing with a disc. All of a sudden the light comes back on. No. Seriously, we were all. I said. This is like a movie. And then. Yeah, then of course, the patient started crying. We were all crying. And it was it was one of the most beautiful moments. And she came the following. This lady had come three days in a row and she didn’t get the chance to be seen. And when she was told, Oh, sorry we missed you, we didn’t write your name down, she came from three different boats and I am really far away. And the following day she came to say goodbye to the airport. And when I saw her, oh, I started crying because I knew how long it took her to get there. The journey. She was so grateful. Yeah, just beautiful.

[00:55:52] It’s. It’s beautiful stuff. Right. But I want to just ask you about this idea that, you know, the pleasure you get from doing this work. Yeah, pleasure is a funny word, but. But the feeling you get from from doing this work, the high, you’ve got the obvious appreciation of that patient who’s, you know, it’s a different level of appreciation than a regular UK patient, obviously. Is it easy to get high on that high and then to go there for that high? And if we’re talking, you know, the benefit that you could be doing in that country, you could train ten dentists to do ten times the amount of work, but actually get there for the high. You know what I mean?

[00:56:42] This idea I 100% I agree with you.

[00:56:46] Not that I’m telling you to go train ten, ten days because you’re a dentist. Know, you go and do what you do there. Right? It’s like you need to organise a charity or something. But. But do you hear it? You hear me?

[00:56:56] Yes. Yes, I do it for my for definitely. It’s part of my mental health routine and it’s good for me. Of course I could. I don’t have to go, you know, but. But I need it. I feel like I need it. And it brings me down it. It grounds me again to to why we do this. So but yes, I 100% agree. You get the high from the high and you see it the best indigenous in New York, best dentists. We flew last time there was a technician from Brazil. He was doing denture to denture denture like I wouldn’t put his head up for hours and everyone is there just for the love of doing it. And there are people that they charge thousands and thousands. They don’t need to be there, you know.

[00:57:38] But you hear my point. My point. My point is, you know, the five of you go there and get your little high from from helping these people. But if you really wanted to help these people, you could do something other than this. You could. You could. You could pay give money. You know what I mean? I’m not I’m not saying do that, by the way. I’m not saying to do that. But but the fact that the fact that you can one can get higher from the power if, for instance, if I’m driving a truck to deliver food to a village where there is no food, I can get a high from the power of doing that. That isn’t necessarily come from the best place in my head, you know. Has that ever crossed your mind?

[00:58:19] No.

[00:58:21] Okay, then don’t let it. Don’t let it. Don’t let me pollute your beautiful mind with my disgusting thoughts.

[00:58:27] Yeah, it has. It goes on mine. Actually, I never saw it that way. But for me, what I would love is that we don’t have to. That we educate. That’s what I would love. That there’s not like, oh, I come here, extract a bunch of seeds, get rid of the pain for the majority. No. Because to extract first molars on a six year old, you know, knowing they have the whole life ahead is something that sticks in your mind. So what? The whole it’s happening. It’s already been happening for some years now. There’s there dentist from Boston University flying there and going through schools to Ed to give education. So I see it as a I don’t believe in chances it just go to the work and leave. And then the next year the same thing there has to be there has to be education because a place where a Coca Cola is cheaper than water, you’re fighting with with culture and you fight it, you know, it’s yeah. And obviously it’s cheaper to get like a burger than it is to get fish when they’re surrounded by fish. So so it’s all education. It’s all education. So I think that’s where I mean, it would be amazing that every month we could get a bunch of students in my in my ideal three. That’s how I.

[00:59:43] Should look at you should you should publicise at least the idea so that even if you haven’t got time, someone else who has got time puts it together. But but for instance, my, my, my thought is, as a young dentist, I always thought, hey, be good to do a bit of charity work. Yeah, but didn’t know where to go, what to, who to call, what to do. Okay. It was 25 years ago when it wasn’t so, so easy. Whatever. But I bet you that if we brought 100 young dentists into the room and said, Would you give a week? I bet you more than half would say yes. And so if there was a website, an organisation where and I say Young, then this doesn’t have to be young, but it’s that sort of ideal idealism of youth. If there was a place where people could go and say, okay, I want to give a week, the week of February, the second to the ninth. And the organisation could then put people in it would, it would help so many different ways it would.

[01:00:39] I tell you, if I could ask for for a wish or a Dental wish, I would say every single university obliged. You know, if you think about how many dental schools we have in the world, and if every single one did, like, you know, one of the they would be called a charity. But everyone is obliged to every single year and divide it into the months that we have to do charity. It wouldn’t be it would be a different experience because we would be educating people. We wouldn’t just be treating. It’s all about prevention. And a country like Africa did a lot in Africa as well, where a family of six shared the toothbrush. Well.

[01:01:21] Where was the.

[01:01:22] That was in Malawi. Well, yeah, and Senegal wasn’t better. But then. Then the problem with these countries is also then dealing with the politicians of the country. Right. In Senegal, we were we were stopped and they came. And because the government had changed that week, we have obviously we have no idea. But they change president the president is killed or whatever happens to the president is crazy things that happen in these countries. And then, you know, there’s a new government and they were not aware that we were there. So imagine we’re helping their people for free and they almost put us in jail, in prison.

[01:01:58] You know, unfortunately.

[01:02:00] Unfortunately, coming. Derek went to prison for one day.

[01:02:03] So coming from a third world country, myself, unfortunately, a lot of times in a in a place like that, they see a bunch of foreigners. They they just the first thing they’re thinking is, is there any money to be made out of this situation? You know, so they immediately put some put some barriers in place. And in the Third World, particularly, they’re very good at stopping stuff, you know, and very bad at starting stuff up again. You know, you should see in Iran, it’s people there’s 100 ways they can stop you. They can stop you from leaving the country. They can stop you from doing a deal. They can stop you from doing it. And then undoing that is so difficult. So it ends up, unfortunately, that the corruption of of of power I think, by the way, there is corruption of power here too. Let’s not.

[01:02:49] Of course it’s.

[01:02:50] Much more organised. Yeah, it’s much more. The numbers are even bigger.

[01:02:56] Sometimes you see resign. You see in a country everyone steals money. No one gives money back. If you’re really stupid, you go to jail, but you don’t have to give the money. And then you do it again and it’s insane. And no one resigns, you know.

[01:03:13] Even here. Even here. Test and trace. Right. You know, it’s not being talked about. Right. But billions, billions went billions went somewhere that we don’t know where it was.

[01:03:22] You like talking about that? The charity. We got our anaesthetics stolen at the airport, so we arrive. And the thing is that because many things are you either buy it because of the donations or you get you get donations from like Henry Schein or wherever the donation comes from. So we have the batch numbers and we arrive and then a setting is gone and we’re there for an hour and a half and nowhere to be seen. So then we get to the place where we’re staying and all of a sudden this guy comes up to me is his doctor, because I said, Well, tomorrow we can start working with. And the first day we worked we extracted teeth with no anaesthetic. Can you imagine? And people were putting up with that pain that was like so. So then he said, you know, we can find anaesthetic for you. And I said, Oh really? It’s like, yeah, it’s in the black market, but and then we all looked at each other and I said, You know what? Bring one of them, just bring one. And he brought it and I turn it, we check the box. So of course, because we were a bit protected, we knew some of the of the people there. I was like, tell the guy where this is from that if it’s not here by the end of the day tomorrow, you guys are going to be a big trouble. And he was shocked. I said, Because this is ours, you stole this. It was like, Oh my God, I can’t believe they’re doing this for you. It’s, you know, they need the money, so they’ll try everything. Yeah, we made them, right.

[01:04:53] Yeah. You like I say, you know, there is there is something about a developed democracy, right? Where that sort of level doesn’t happen. But it happens. It’s unfortunate. You know, Sandra, you’re such a good person, right? I feel like you’re one of the sort of people trying to be a really good person in the world. I don’t know.

[01:05:10] Why.

[01:05:12] You are. You really are. What’s. What’s what’s the key? You seem. You seem happy. Are you happy.

[01:05:17] For number one? I am. I am. What’s the key for you? Living the present. I think living the present is a big one. I think I used to not. I think I know I used to always plan and. Yeah, and then but Friday I’ll do this and then next month I’ll do that. And forgetting the most essential thing which is live the present and and be grateful for what you have, especially talking about these countries that don’t even have a piece of bread. So. So, yeah, living the present. That’s.

[01:05:50] It’s easy to say, but. But. Did you read a book like. Did you go.

[01:05:56] If you go into my house, I mean, you can have 100 different books. So, you know, gratitude. The present. The power of now. Yeah, yeah. Big books. I think meditation does a lot.

[01:06:09] It does that.

[01:06:10] It does a lot. Yes. And I always tell everyone some meditation. I mean, I’m not the best meditator. I don’t meditate every day. There’ll be days that I ran out of time, but I’ll feel it. The days that I didn’t meditate today doesn’t go the same. I can tell you that it doesn’t go the same. But yes. And and unfortunately, I’ve lived quite a few horrible personal situations, family situations. So it makes you even more like want to enjoy every moment, enjoy every moment. Yeah. So because tomorrow is not granted as you know. So, but.

[01:06:46] But if I want to live more in the present now, right now, what is it about not thinking about stopping yourself, thinking about tomorrow.

[01:06:55] Yes. And it’s about because the power of the thoughts, what you think you create. Right. So you just have to be you just have to be. And if you’re in my mum, one of the things that she does and she’s right at the beginning, we would get a bit upset with her whenever we’re, we’re home and we’re about to have breakfast, lunch, dinner or whatever it is we gather she gets a basket and everyone has to put their phone down and I and I’ll be, you know. Yeah. And everyone’s like, We’re missing something, but I’ll be at a dinner and all of a sudden I’ll be checking my phone and that’s rude. And we forgot about what manners are. And maybe many times one of them, you know, and if you’re talking with a person, you have to interact with that person. And but it’s you have to practice every day. It doesn’t you know, it’s not a formula of, oh, yeah, I’m happy. No, you have to practice as well. You have to practice. But I’m very positive that I would say I always see and if I work with, with a with a nurse, for example, I was fighting with them. They are like, oh, this hurts, that hurts. I’m not feeling well. I’m always like, Change that, change the way you’re thinking right now. I can’t have you like this. I said all the problems outside of the door here. We’re here to give that 100% that I learned a lot from Jonathan. From Jonathan Levine. I mean, he’s you know, he’s like a tiny positive. Yeah, he is. So do you do you do that a lot as well? Sports keeps your mind like this. Yeah, yeah.

[01:08:26] Like you said, like, I don’t know, when you’re skiing down a mountain, there isn’t much time to think about the past or the future is going to stay alive right now. Right?

[01:08:36] It’s the only sport I am. Resist. I had this resistance to skiing. Yes. What is the problem? Skiing in the mountain. I have fear of the incline.

[01:08:47] Yeah, but by the way, it’s not my favourite holiday being cold. Just. It isn’t.

[01:08:52] Exactly. I’ve always, always. I’m like, if you give me two days, it will not be to go to the mountain.

[01:08:59] What is your favourite holiday?

[01:09:02] Well, definitely the beach. A good book, good food, good wine and people definitely surrounded by fun times. Bye bye.

[01:09:13] Good. Do you go to the same places or do you go to different places?

[01:09:16] I go to many different places. Oh, of course. You know, back home is always a must have been going to Ibiza since I’m 17 formentera I love love a beautiful place for me is Gabby’s that here I just got back from.

[01:09:34] I just got back from Cadiz.

[01:09:36] But I love how to say Cadiz. Gabby’s just like Ibiza. So so Cadiz is, is.

[01:09:46] A fish.

[01:09:47] Market here. Yeah. You went to the town, right? So I go to this. It’s called Sora. It’s in the beach, but the beach are like kilometres and kilometres and kilometres and it’s all wild. Like I’ve never seen horses in the beach on their own, you know, it’s yeah. It’s that really grounds you that kind of holiday and it’s raw, it’s zero sophisticated. You know you go to the bar that. And it’s not like there’s zero sophistication there, but I love it. I love it. Yeah.

[01:10:17] I went to a little town outside. It is like something. De la Frontera.

[01:10:24] De la Frontera.

[01:10:26] Oh, my goodness.

[01:10:28] 15 minutes.

[01:10:29] Spain’s got so many of these little towns that, you know, you might not have heard of. Yeah, my my my marketing manager. Spanish. And she sent me that round, this little trip of the North Santander and around there. Places you would never end up in, you know. And suddenly I end up this 1000 year old village in the mountains by the. By the sea somewhere. Just. Just beautiful places.

[01:10:52] San Sebastian. I discovered San Sebastian this year. I had never been. My parents go every year and it was my first time and I was like, Wow.

[01:10:59] It’s not. I’d prefer Bilbao when I went.

[01:11:02] Yeah.

[01:11:02] Did you like Bilbao? Have you been to Bilbao?

[01:11:04] Yes, I liked it, but I just found San Sebastian like that beach is so beautiful. The food. The food. And I’m a.

[01:11:12] City guy, I think, like big city.

[01:11:16] We’re very lucky. I mean, we have a great country, but so is Italy. So is Portugal. You know, I mean, Greece, although those. Those countries are. Yeah. That I love because I love food. Again, going back to the Mediterranean thing, we just you know, I was having this conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend and he was thinking of buying property in Santo Domingo. And I said and then he was looking at the Caribbean and I said, This is the Caribbean. Only Mexico has good food. The rest is awful. Even Santo Domingo, I said it’s it’s crazy to think of a place that they have good fruit, good vegetables, but then what they serve because American, you know, it’s all full of Americans everywhere. And the cuisine is awful, like full of sauces. And I’m like, just leave the fish, leave the meats, don’t add anything to it, you know? So, yeah, I’m a foodie.

[01:12:09] Me too. Me too. So, for instance, I want to badly want to go to Philippines looking at the Instagram, but I hear the food’s not all that. Whereas Thailand.

[01:12:20] I wow, I.

[01:12:21] Love time, but I love the food in Thailand you cannot beat the food in Thailand. So when I go that way, even though I know Philippines has got these beautiful places or even Cuba. Have you been to Cuba? I heard the food in Cuba isn’t all that so.

[01:12:35] I don’t have that. They don’t have. You have to go to black market. Right. But Cuba’s very similar to Canary Islands. Very similar, but just poor really. It is like, you know.

[01:12:47] Which being culturally similar.

[01:12:49] Oh, the culture is the same, it’s the same. But I’ve never I’ve never been to a place with so much talent, dancing, singing, painting, everything, writing the just pure talent. But they invited us to this choreographer and he he’s actually he lives here. And it was quite interesting because all of a sudden in his house, the lobsters arrive. And I said, Where are these from? Oh, they’re illegal. I’m like, What? Oh, yeah, yeah. We have to close everything the house is. Because if the police sees a dinner party, they suspect they can come into your house and you get fined. What? You can’t fish? No, you’re not allowed to fish. It’s ridiculous.

[01:13:31] Contraband, huh?

[01:13:32] Think of it. Yeah.

[01:13:34] So you’ve. You’ve recently put out a course, which I’m really happy that you’ve done, because I always thought you should. You should teach. It’s an online course, right?

[01:13:45] It’s an online course here. Agnus actually that she was at your one of the teachers at your course. She sent me a really sweet message about that.

[01:13:53] And she’d been in agony.

[01:13:56] She saw the videos and yeah, so she was very happy that I did it. So it’s an online course. It’s how to do veneers from the beginning, from it’s a live patient. Everything was recorded. So from the moment of the consultation, what questions to ask red flags were to say no and then goes through photography, videography, the DSC, all the process of lab communication and the bits that I felt were missing because obviously recording everything in like in two weekends there was from like the preparation and then the fit. There were many things that I felt that were missing. So then there were bonus. There are bonus videos, everything I felt was missing, but obviously I’ll keep updating stuff as well. So of cases and it’s to build a community. This is this is mainly what it is. You know, everyone that signs up will get bonuses of what it feels to be part of a community. Because for me, I’ve done many courses and what I always found it was challenging was implementing and the and the support more than the more than implementing the support. Then you come back and you’re pretty much on your own. So then you develop all these fears and you stop doing things because. Lack of knowledge, basically. Right. So I think that’s where I want people to. Don’t be scared. Every person. That’s because we have several tiers. The tier one is just a course for the Tier two. You get access to me, to my to my WhatsApp and they don’t even I send them a message and I’m like, Hey, Sandra, if you need anything, please. And you’d be surprised, everyone. So people that are scared of asking and I said, What is it of the course that you don’t understand? Because it would be many things that you don’t ask and they’ll be scared of asking, which is fascinating.

[01:15:45] Did you I mean, this is the first time you’ve done it like a course with your name on it. Did you suffer with sort of that perfection paralysis that a lot of people suffer with?

[01:15:55] A hundred. That’s why it took so many months to launch. Yes, it was. If I go back and I’m and I’m 100% honest, I think it was the judgement, the judgement that others would have. But I’m the one judging myself more than anyone else. So I thought, Oh my God, what if people don’t like it? And this is like, Oh, this is rubbish, this and that. And commenting the comments. I remember the day we launched my, my business partner in the project. He said, Are you ready for the negativity? And I said, Really? I said, I don’t think so. He said, Well, you have to build thick skin because it will be people that know that. And I remember I yeah, I hadn’t thought about that. But yeah, it is what it is. Once you can I tell you, I haven’t watched any of the videos because he’s doing all the, the marketing aspect of it. I haven’t been able to watch any of the videos of promotional videos because I’m so embarrassed. You don’t.

[01:16:55] But I know the feeling. No, I know the feeling. I know the feeling. But I tell you, I would I would watch them, though. Yeah. Because someone that’s analytical as you as well, you’ll gain a lot by watching.

[01:17:06] Them as well. I watched it all when it was recorded. Right. And that’s why the way he’s framed them and stuff, I haven’t I said I did my part, which was a Dental part. You do your part, which is a marketing. So that’s why I didn’t want to interfere, you know, also in the ideas.

[01:17:25] But I mean, look, the the buzz, you know, the buzz you get from charity work. There’s a buzz in teaching as well that I guess you’re going to have a live element to it as well. Are you part two or three or whatever?

[01:17:39] Yes. Yes. There’s a buzz. There is. There is a buzz. There is a buzz. I think it all started I was I was with Maxime from Belgrade Academy, and I went there to hang out and see one of the courses that he did. He’s he’s a talent man. And and I was sitting down in one of the microscopes and then the person on my right, on my left. They had no idea prepping. They had no idea of nothing. And I spent the whole weekend basically teach them both. And then I thought, wow, I really liked doing this, you know? And there was super grateful because of course, when you’re in a hands on, you have to wait your turn until you know the faculty is there, helps you out. So I said, oh, I, I really liked him in this. I really like helping out and give him the mistakes, which is something that in the course I did and I was not too sure about doing, which was sharing what went wrong, it took me a second, but then I said, No, you know what? I want to show everyone how I really am. I need to show the mistakes so that they don’t they don’t do the same things I did. Right.

[01:18:48] I think that’s the most important part of a course, isn’t that the the mistakes. And, you know, and you take a lot of photographs where Dipesh does this a lot, where he’s got the final result. There’s something about the final result that isn’t perfect. And then you go backwards in the photos and and get back to the point where that error was made. And, and then that’s the learning that he had. But then but then sharing that so important. Right, because.

[01:19:18] He’s a great.

[01:19:19] People remember. People remember, don’t they. From from a story they’d remember from something like that. It’s so important. Did you go to Ukraine for the course?

[01:19:28] Yes, I did. Kiev. I did. I went before last November. Yeah. And then he invited me to to to help him in May this year. That obviously never happened. So yeah. He’s moved to Czech Republic now.

[01:19:45] Yeah. Yeah, I saw I thought.

[01:19:47] To think about how did.

[01:19:48] You feel that day when you saw the invasion of Ukraine? You must have felt that.

[01:19:52] His clinic got bombed. I just could not believe it. It is like now the parts part of it. Yeah. The building. Like he sent a picture to, to, to on WhatsApp, but I just could not believe it. But also the amount of because what we said we asked him, you know, there’s a big problem with nurses going on in well with staff in general in the UK. So I said I sent him a message and I said if any of the girls that worked for you, the work for you, if they’re willing to come to the UK, please, we’re willing to help them out because we had a problem with staff at time. And anyway, what he did, he just spread my mobile phone to everyone that asked him. So I started getting bombarded by it by dentists, some that I’ve actually met. They came to the practice and it’s shocking stories. You know, how they just walked away of everything they had, they owned and just got in a car and came here and it’s like, wow, I don’t think we I don’t think we we understand what this means and what we’re going through at the moment, you know, but that’s I think that’s humans for you. No one remembers Afghanistan now. It was this big shock and now no one remembers. Right.

[01:21:09] You also Afghanistan. I mean, obviously coming coming from the country next door. I’ve felt it a bit more than than, I guess the guy sitting in the town in Britain. But the idea that you could be an educated person with a life and and everything going for you yesterday and then today, not have a house, not have a a life and have to run away overnight. I think it resonated with with the public in a way that I’ve not seen before. And I’m not sure whether I mean, some people say, oh, it’s because the Europeans and their whites and people can I don’t know whether whether it was some sort of a social media campaign. You know, there was something behind it in terms of they wanted people to feel that way so that they could put whatever sanctions or whether it was a completely organic thing. Either way, it was the first time I’ve seen it where the public really felt it. And then now you’ve got recession and the price of oil and suddenly people remember their own lives more. And and all of those thoughts were quickly disappear as well. Yeah.

[01:22:17] Exactly. Exactly. But even your country, I mean, Iran, we are the most powerful country in the world. And how is it possible that. It is where it is now. It’s so backwards.

[01:22:26] I just. I heard last I heard malnutrition in Iran. Malnutrition, it is you know, it’s unbelievable. You know, there’s never there was always in Iran. It was way too much of everything. The idea that some people can’t eat.

[01:22:43] It’s taking it. Someone’s taking it for sure. That’s the thing. And then towards women more the fact that now you have to be completely covered. It’s like in this day and age that this thing.

[01:22:55] Let’s talk about women. Let’s talk about women in dentistry. Have you felt it if you felt outside of the obvious? I’m sure you’ve had some patient fall in love with you and say, Oh, will you marry me? Or whatever outside of that? Sort of outside of that sort of thing. Have you felt subtly that it’s more difficult being a woman than a man as a dentist?

[01:23:15] I’ve been asked this several times and I always say the same thing. Either I was very like in my own little world. I just don’t think that way. So whenever but now looking back, I, you know, situations I’ve gone through, I said, Oh, that was probably because I was a woman. But at the time I never thought about it that way. I never I’ve never seen the limitation. I just again, because of this way, I just went for it. Right. So I remember once I was asked if I had got the job because I had I had had something with the practice owner and I thought, what? And then, you know, and then the next thing that person said, well, you know, as a woman. And I thought, that’s a strange comment to make. And now looking back, I said, wow, a lot of people thought that way, but because you’re a woman, clearly you have less power and you’re not as capable as doing as doing things. In Spain, for example, male doctors are more popular than female doctors because it is a very sexist country when it comes to that. So not now. Things have changed. But, you know, the older generation, they’d rather be seen by a man, by a woman. So. So I guess, yeah, it’s everywhere. It’s just that I’ve never thought about it that way.

[01:24:35] Rather be seen by an old man in Iran. In Iran, the older your doctor is, the better he is, you know? So, like, there are some guys walking around 85 year old doctors, right? People think they’re the best doctors they must be. There’s it’s that way of thinking. But so you’re saying you’ve never felt the limitation, but looking back on it, there were some comments made or or whatever. But do you see that more as a societal thing or as in dentistry, we have a problem because there is you know, people say the industry we have a problem with not enough female role models.

[01:25:10] Which might be I think it’s I think probably as a society thing a little bit not so much in this country that it’s it’s very equal. But definitely when I go to conferences, there are not enough women. And I don’t know if it because we’re scared of lecturing or because it’s just don’t call us, you know? But it is true. Like you go to big conferences and there’ll be one female speaker and that’s it’s shocking, you know, because I can tell you several now that are amazing and they’re doing fantastic work and, you know, they’re hardly ever invited. So so yeah, I don’t know what it is. I honestly don’t know what it is. Well, but we make.

[01:25:47] This this fuel to pick from.

[01:25:51] But do you think it’s because we’re scared of just putting ourselves out there? Because, for example, for me, it’s been throughout the years that I mean, many times I’ve been asked, Why don’t you lecture? Why don’t you do this? I was always like, Oh, I’m not good enough for that. So it was coming from a place of fear.

[01:26:09] By the way, there’s many men also scared of putting themselves out there, too. But but I think you’re right. I think I think there is part of. There are some women who are eminently capable. And, you know, I noticed it. I went to a practice of one of our one of our customers. And in the practice, she was she was very strong, you know, like she said, she was saying exactly what she she she thought. I thought, you know, she was she was the boss and she was saying it. And then and then I spoke to her on on the podcast, and I found a much more reserved, much more reserved. And I wondered whether, number one, is it you know, it’s a strange situation being on a podcast, right? Or number two, is there that thing in society or as a as a woman you feel in society that you can’t be loud and and out of what’s the word, you know, like not not out of control, but, you know, like stand out outside your box, you know? But I’ve always noticed you’ve never really had that issue. But I’m I’m interested that you’re saying you do feel that and you haven’t lectured because of it. It’s interesting.

[01:27:15] Yeah. When it comes to lecturing. Yeah. When it comes to work. I’ve never had fear of being a woman at all. But when it comes to being in a public where where people can can judge. Yes, yes. Not because I’m a woman, but clearly because it’s because it’s me that is scared of doing that. Because I always feel like, oh, my God, they’re going to say this, they’re going to say that, which is a silly thing because, you know, no one’s perfect in this world.

[01:27:40] So when I think about myself or my wife in a social setting, she’s 100 times more capable than I am. You know.

[01:27:50] I’m really.

[01:27:52] Socially. Yeah. Like and like if we go to a dinner party or something, I’m a little bit awkward. I’m very shy. Very, very, very shy. And she’s not she’s she’s she’s very strong, you know. And what she’ll do is she’ll find the one person in the room who isn’t talking to anyone and go and talk to that person and, you know, be very nice and understand everyone. And but then if you ask her to stand on a stage and talk, you might as well ask her to do something. You know, to her, that’s the most difficult thing in the world. And I wonder if I tell her if that’s a man woman thing or what. You know, by the way, I don’t like standing on stage. I like this format because I don’t have to be seen. You know.

[01:28:32] You can hide.

[01:28:34] I can hide. So tell me this, Sandra. If someone wants to download your course. How does that work? To get it, let’s say I want it. What do I do?

[01:28:44] We’re has to. Yes. Veneer. Veneer, school. That’s where all the modules are. Is there a taster.

[01:28:54] Of it somewhere? Like if you want to taste it before you buy it?

[01:28:57] On my Instagram, which is. Sandra Briggs Well, there are loads of videos of like little I think there was one today about preparation. So yeah, a lot of a lot of videos where you can see the formats. It’s an interesting format because it’s a bit like a movie, you know. So it’s, it’s nice to show it. They did a great job. They really did. And the patient was was amazing because, you know, it’s not easy to be there hours and hours of recording and the mouth open and then the rubber dam. I mean, you know, because we did everything under the rubber dam as well. And then we did like a bonus of mini rubber dam course with the course. So she was the one that I picked to do everything. So and I have a funny thing halfway through the fit, isolated every single tooth. And she’s a makeup artist and she says, You know what? I have a client that really needs a makeup. Can I can I go? I said, you must be joking. Right. And this is 9:00 pm on a Sunday. No, but what do you mean you could go? She’s like, Oh, but it’s I can’t say no to the job. So I dumped her, removed everything that you know, how much it takes to rub a dam? Everything. She went to Knightsbridge, to the Mandalorian, to. To do her stuff. Then I said, okay to me, do some some food for for the the camera crew and stuff. And she came back and we finished. So it was like, wow, seriously after we put there. Yeah.

[01:30:34] I’m going, I’m going to wrap it up soon. Sandra But we always have a dark part of this podcast and it goes around the question of biggest mistakes.

[01:30:45] In dentistry, the biggest mistakes that I’ve done, like.

[01:30:50] It can be clinical, it can be tactical, it can be management or ideally something I’m going to give people something people can learn.

[01:30:57] From. Yes. Clinical. Not checking on a full composite case like veneered composite veneers. Not checking what my nurse was given to me. The shade. So I did a bit of a mismatch.

[01:31:15] Different colours on different teeth.

[01:31:17] Colours and different teeth.

[01:31:20] That was only realised after he’d finished everything, right?

[01:31:24] Yes. I said, wait a minute. Strange. That was like, whoa! Once and no, never again.

[01:31:32] What did you do? Repeat the work.

[01:31:35] I couldn’t because it was already so many hours in. So I called I called the patient to come back.

[01:31:40] And removed it all, removed the bits you had to remove, I guess.

[01:31:43] Because it was it was this bad. It was like b one against a two, you know, two or three. It was like really, you know.

[01:31:52] It was obvious when you told the patient when you when you told the patient what had happened.

[01:31:58] You know, the patient might not even realise that’s a funny thing. Yeah, probably the following day. But there she was like, Oh yeah, I can see, I can see. But it was so late as well that she was like, It’s okay, they look beautiful. And I’m like, Yeah, the wrong colour situation when you might not be. Thank God the essentials are the same. You didn’t get that wrong. It was a lateral premotor and then canine premotor as well. Yeah.

[01:32:32] And the patient was understanding.

[01:32:34] Yes. Yes. And I said, listen, I didn’t check. I must we must have run out of this. And I’m so sorry. Something else thing. You know.

[01:32:44] I’m interested if you’ve got a story where the patient wasn’t understanding, even if the mistake was a smaller mistake. Did you have any time like that?

[01:32:51] I’ve had. And now I’ve learned from this, whenever you do, of an ear case, given the expectation that it was, it was always going to be perfect in the fit. Not saying, listen, this can go wrong several times. It’s like a central right. This can go wrong several times. Many times is the most difficult truth of the matter. You have to put it on the really negative side. And if we’re so, so lucky than a second next appointment, everything’s perfect. Then we’ll fit. But it’s unlikely that that happens. That’s my talk now. My talk back then was like, Oh yeah, two weeks of fit and it was sedation case. None of the patient remove everything. Nothing fits it. Nothing fits it. Because when I took the impression, silicone impression, the patient opened a little bit and then I, you know, and then I positioned it again. So obviously it wasn’t my fault. They work on a model that had a different like the reference was completely different, not one fit that was like that patient. So my patient today what he was yeah imagine sedation and the whole trauma of having every single tooth removed temporary removed and yeah that was yeah.

[01:34:07] Was he not understanding why he was sedated so you couldn’t really argue.

[01:34:11] No. But when he when he obviously has sedation and contemporaries and he’s like, what is this? I had documented everything. What happened? He was like, What? You know, he was at the time he was was a CEO of one of these big supermarket chains. He was not having it. So he had very limited time.

[01:34:32] And so what happened?

[01:34:33] He well, I took everything, all the screams and all the nastiness. And then I said, and we have to we have to redo it. I’m really sorry. But, you know, did you like the colour?

[01:34:51] Colour was right. So. But but he didn’t take any further or anything. He didn’t?

[01:35:00] No, no, no, no. Well, he could. And he was in temporary. There was nothing I did wrong, right? Yeah, right, right, right. But but, yeah. Funny stories. Funny stories. But thanks for sharing them. Yeah, thanks. The older you get, the more cautious you are. That’s right.

[01:35:17] And thanks and thanks for sharing about. I can tell you’re uncomfortable talking about about the cause. Like, you know, you’re that kind of person who’s not a self-promoter. I can I can see that. I can see you’re uncomfortable in the self-promotion. And for listeners of this, I’m such a massive fan of Sandra’s right that I contacted her and said, Please be on the podcast. When I saw that she had a course because she she’s not the type of person to push at all. I know your your business partner looks like he knows what he’s doing. As far as pushing the opposite, the total opposite. It’s good, man. You need someone like that. You need to. You need both sides. But I could see you were uncomfortable talking about your course, and so I’m happy you shared about that. Yeah.

[01:36:01] It’s you know, I’m the kind of person that that struggles more receiving a present than make it presence. I love it so.

[01:36:08] I can see.

[01:36:09] You know, it is.

[01:36:12] So we finished this podcast with the same two questions I start with with mine fantasy dinner party. Three guests. Dead or alive. Are you going to have?

[01:36:27] They have to be famous.

[01:36:29] No. Be your grandmother’s grandmother?

[01:36:32] Yeah. Funding Whitey. I would probably sit down. My grandmother with my grandmother from my mom’s side. She was she died with 102. Say no more. How much history?

[01:36:52] Were you close?

[01:36:55] Very close. Very close. She was she was she was crazy. But she was a lot of fun. She was not for what I understand. She was not that great of a mother, but she was a great grandmother. So she was, you know.

[01:37:09] Maybe that’s why maybe that was the reason.

[01:37:11] When she was not very present with them. Because she was. Yeah. But as a grandmother, she was hilarious. I mean, she wasn’t the one that would come and my parents would go out and she would stay with us. You know, it wasn’t that kind of person. It was a person that you would just have fun. And the story she had were unbelievable. And we would learn from her every day. But she wasn’t the kind of grandmother that would cook for you and, you know, and babysit. No, that was that was the other one I had. I was lucky enough to have one of each but her 100%. I feel her very presence. She died many years ago, but I still feel her all the time. Oprah. Oprah Winfrey, I think she’s a total fan of her. And Nelson Mandela, which is another of my big idols. Big item. That would be an excellent. With a lot of amazing red wine.

[01:37:59] Yes, sure. So why Oprah?

[01:38:03] Because I. I know her story like and she’s a she’s a perfect example of everything in life is possible. When I did the Tony Robbins course, he started off by talking about this, this little girl. And he didn’t say, was Oprah. Right? And he said, you know, she was from I don’t know if you know, but she was very poor background and then her uncle raped her and then someone else in the family and she went mental. So she was sent to a mental hospital and then she got pregnant with the same age her mom had got pregnant with her, which was not wrong. I think it was 15. Well, he had an abortion. Obviously, her mom didn’t. That’s why, lucky enough, where we have, you know, so so Tony Robbins was putting you in context of how horrible this human being’s life had been. And he said and today she’s the richest woman in the world and her name is Oprah. And everyone just went, whoa, you know? And I thought, imagine. I mean, she’s she’s she’s done everything. Everything is possible. And she’s done it. And she I think I don’t know her personally, but from the outside, it looks like she’s she’s grandiose. She’s very mindful, super smart. And she keeps going. She keeps going. Has all these schools in Africa for for girls. Yeah. I really admire her. And Nelson Mandela. I mean, what person goes to jail for 20 something years and comes out and wants to make peace with white people?

[01:39:35] Sure. No, I understand. I understand. Now I understand. You want to. You want to get to know her, right? And Prav isn’t here. But his final question is.

[01:39:47] I know. I see his little thing.

[01:39:49] Yeah. The little cartoon of his final question is your last day on the planet.

[01:39:57] You go, you’re in the beach.

[01:39:59] No, but you’ve got your nearest and dearest on the beach with you.

[01:40:03] Yes.

[01:40:04] What? Three bits of advice would you give?

[01:40:07] Would I give to them?

[01:40:08] To them in the world? Yeah.

[01:40:12] 100% live the present. Yes, it would be in the beach. It would be amazing. Food, wine. Again, it sound like there’s a pattern here. I don’t do any service right away. Yes. And definitely by the sea and with my family, my loved ones. And yeah, live. The present will be one. Never hold back, always try to achieve everything because again, everything is possible. It might take time. It might take many, many skills to get wherever it is that you want to go. But I’m I’m a dreamer. I always believe everything’s possible and try not to do to the others where you don’t want to have done to you. Try to be a good human being. Yes.

[01:41:02] Very nice. Are you religious, Sandra?

[01:41:06] Well, I was raised as a Catholic. Do I go to church Sundays? No. Do I practice? I talk to God. Call him Jesus, Allah, Mohammed. Whatever you want to call him, you know. I think it’s the same. It’s the same. I think we’re all God, everything’s God. But I do believe there’s a force above us and that I talked to.

[01:41:30] What you say when you talk to do what you do, you ask for stuff.

[01:41:34] Well, me, I ask for stuff and I give thanks. I always start the morning giving thanks to just being alive. That my family’s healthy. That everyone’s healthy. Is that part.

[01:41:44] Of is that part of Catholic upbringing that most most people do that every day?

[01:41:48] Yeah. You it’s at night that you pray and in the morning you give thanks. Yet at night you pray. I sit with my grandmothers and always pray. But again, you know, it’s like Catholics, the same thing. I don’t believe in limitation. I don’t believe in dividing. So something I learned being in New York and going to I had a patient that was a priest and he was a Baptist and Baptist church. They celebrate life. They celebrate death. Yeah. Yeah. For example, you go to a Catholic, it’s very serious funeral and it’s all bad energy. Like, everyone’s sad, everyone’s crying, everyone’s in black. If you’re a widow, you have to be in black for like a year, at least. And and it’s like, this is not how it’s meant to be. Right.

[01:42:37] So how old were you? How old were you when you when you sort of saw through the I’m you know, I’m not saying you had to see through it, but know the Catholic teaching and ways of the guilt and the that sort of thing. How old were you when you when you figured, you know, I don’t know about all this, you know, organised religion as opposed.

[01:42:56] To probably when I when I moved. Yeah. When I moved out of my house probably. Yes. 17, 18.

[01:43:03] So at that point you were fully in it like when you were 16, you were like you really believed in.

[01:43:08] I did. I did. Yeah, I definitely did. And but then then it was like an eye opener of, no, this is not religion that divides, say, because you’re gay, you don’t exist because you’re you know, this race is inferior to this one. No, just just like people that kill in the name of God. I mean, what is this? You know, again, limitations. So, so and then I love studying other religions. And I asked people and I said, why do you believe this and why do you believe that? When I moved to New York the first week, there was a muslim in my class and I was never exposed to Muslims. That’s the truth, because coming from a Catholic country and all my friends were pretty much raised the same way I was, and it was Ramadan. And I remember we sat in a table and he’s like a brother to me now. But at the time I started having breakfast and then he said, How dare you have breakfast? So. So what did he say? I can’t remember what he said exactly. But but he said, this is very rude towards me because, you know, I’m fasting. And I said, Why are you fasting? And then he started explaining and I was like, Well, that’s your choice, but it’s not my life.

[01:44:22] Why do I have to, you know, but and I clashed so much with him in the beginning. And because it was all he would say, what you couldn’t do and what you could do. And I was like, Wow. But then you come to a respect, an understanding, and he’s one of my dearest friends. And then you say, okay, maybe what I believe or what I think. I believe the story I’ve been told that I believe is not a right story. And there’s so many other people in the world. And why do I am I judging everything? I’m seeing everything with my glasses. That was the first wake up call with the Muslim world. And then because it’s true, it’s in Spain, it was very racist towards other religions, you know, and you would see a guy like especially after what happened in Madrid, the bombs, you would see a guy that he was clearly Arabic with a backpack and everyone would walk away. That’s crazy, you know. So the world terrorists, you know. Yeah. And that’s that’s why I believed until I was exposed to other things and I said, okay, how come I was such so narrow minded?

[01:45:30] It’s a powerful thing. You know, what you what you get told and the way the way things are, it’s just a powerful thing. Every every country has it as well. You know, the Arabs have it, too. They have their own problems in that same respect. You know, people tell you the story I’m quite interested in, you know, the the national myths. Like, I’ll tell you, in Iran, we have a national myth that something around great civilisation from thousands of years ago and then every Iranian knows. The story. Right. And it’s I’m very proud of the story at this one, this taxi driver taking me from the airport to thing he was telling. He literally was totally believing it, saying, look, we’ve got America, you’ve got China and you have Iran. He was he really meant it. He really believed it. And, you know, the national myths of different countries. And I remember I was in Portugal and they were talking about, oh, we discovered the whole world, you know, Christopher Columbus and all of that. Which which which they did. Right. You know, if you want to look at it that way.

[01:46:34] Every virtually every country has its own.

[01:46:38] Every country has its own story. It tells itself right, its own lie. It tells itself. It’s interesting, though, to find out each country’s lie that they’re telling each other, telling themselves, you know. Anyway, it’s been such a pleasure having you, Sandra.

[01:46:52] Thank you.

[01:46:53] I do hope the course goes well for you. And like I say, you’re not the type of person to push yourself at all.

[01:47:01] And I really appreciate that message. And I really loved it. I thought, oh, man.

[01:47:07] I really hope the charity thing works out. And I really I think between us and whoever else is listening to this who thinks it’s a good idea, we should try.

[01:47:15] And reach out to.

[01:47:17] That thing, organise that thing where people say, Hey, we should get someone like someone who knows about computers. Prav, you know, to make a little website that says, Hey, I’m available this week to This Week and connect. It’s such a, it’s so it’s so it’s so what you said it’s so beneficial to the dentist, let alone to to the to the person being treated. Real pleasure to have you. Sandra, thank you so, so, so much.

[01:47:41] Oh, darling, thank you so much. Have a great evening.

[01:47:45] This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman, Langroudi and Prav. Solanki.

[01:48:01] Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this file, you must have listened to the whole thing and just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we had to say and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it. If you did get some value out of it, think about subscribing. And if you would share this with a friend who you think might get some value out of it, too. Thank you so, so, so much for listening. Thanks. And don’t forget our six star rating.


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