Speaker1: It’s a really horrible disease that no one knows enough about. So for me, I’d lie on the floor in A&E and I’d be throwing up constantly. They’d inject me to try and stop you being sick. And one time this guy dragged me across the floor, thought I was a drunk, and I was like, I’m pregnant. But because I was so slim, I was tiny. Yeah. I remember you lost even more weight. 66 stone. And I was so unwell and I couldn’t fight my corner because I didn’t have any energy. This is mind movers. Moving [00:00:30] the conversation forward on mental health and optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts Rhona Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Speaker2: Hello. Hi. Welcome to Mind Movers. It’s so wonderful to have the incredible, beautiful Amy Neville with us today. Thanks for having me. So Amy and I met a few years ago. Amy is actually someone that I had been following online for a really long time. Um, she’s a model, uh, [00:01:00] an online influencer. She was once an estate agent. I found that out and has really taken the online world by storm because she has really sort of made modelling, I think a really sort of if you made it different, Amy, to me, because also, like, I think Archetypally people always think that like models are a certain way. But I think your journey was incredible because you started doing content without even having like a contract, yet without even being part of an agency. And, you [00:01:30] know, I mean, everyone’s talking about Tube Girl now, do you know Tube Girl? And I remember seeing you, though, in these huge ball gowns, literally on the tube and, um, you know, so you were somebody that really showed, like, confidence and what it’s like. And then obviously, as life developed, you know, becoming a mother and really balancing that. And that was something that I really like ask you about every time you’re in the dental chair, you know, what’s it like and how has it impacted your life? So really excited to have you on today, Amy. But tell us a little bit. So I [00:02:00] like to always start from the beginning. Tell us what life was like. So where you grew up and how you became an estate agent and your transition into the online world?

Speaker1: Okay, so basically I’m from Oakham, the smallest county in Rutland. It’s, um, a tiny, tiny town. It’s lovely. Everyone knows everyone. I always wanted to move to London. It was like my thing, like I was a big city girl. I wanted to do modelling. I knew I couldn’t succeed where I was, um, and I actually said to my dad, I want to move to London like I’m not the village girl. [00:02:30] Um, so I moved down at the age of 17 with my ex-partner. Um, but I actually had to go and work as a receptionist at a solicitors, which is. This is my whole journey. Um, so I was a receptionist at a solicitors. I kind of did, um, assistant work a state agency. I did loads of different jobs because obviously with modelling you have to build your portfolio. So it took me years, but, um, with the estate agency, it wasn’t really something I wanted to do. But I love people, so I was working with all different people. I worked in an office full of boys who all used to take the mick out of me all [00:03:00] the time. I was like, the blonde. Yeah, I love that. Um, but yeah, I know my journey was kind of. I really had to fight for what I wanted. Obviously, I had a good education. My dad sent me to private school. But then you’re kind of out there in the big world on your own, and it’s kind of like you actually have to work for things you want yourself. Nothing’s going to get given to you.

Speaker2: So did you go to university?

Speaker1: No, no, so I didn’t um, it was kind of a choice of my own, actually. My ex partner actually kind of talked me out of it as well. Really? Yeah. He moved to London and said, move down with me, but he was the one [00:03:30] that had the career. I didn’t, so I moved down for him. I didn’t go to university, but looking back, I’m glad I didn’t because I think I’d have spent loads of money. Yeah, I’ve always had an obsession with clothes and I’d probably got myself in loads of debt and I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I loved fashion, I was going to do something like fashion marketing, but I didn’t really know what I wanted to do specifically other than the modelling. But you can’t just go and be a model overnight, like you have to work with different brands and photographers. And it did take me a good eight years actually, to get where I was. And purely for me, it was [00:04:00] more confidence. I never really had the confidence to kind of get there with the modelling. Um, and this.

Speaker2: Is obviously pre like online. Right. So we’re talking about like this is like way before Instagram was out, I.

Speaker1: Actually remember my um manager at the time and my estate agents actually said to me, there’s a new thing called Instagram. And I was like, wow. And I remember he posted a picture of like this cup of tea. And I was like, what is this online thing? Because I was always on Facebook. Yeah. And he said to me, this is going to be the new thing. And I was like, oh, okay, maybe I should try and post some stuff. But I didn’t think anything [00:04:30] of it. And I remember at the time, my partner, we had a really pretty front door and he’d take pictures of me outside, like of all my different outfits. I used to spend all my money on clothes. Whatever job I’ve been in, I’ve spent every penny I’ve had. Yeah, yeah. And it was kind of one of the reasons I started my Instagram. At the time, I was just posting on my different outfits. Um, and then obviously the modelling kind of didn’t take off straight away, but I did a lot of like body double work for Georgia may Jagger.

Speaker2: That’s so cool.

Speaker1: I did some really cool jobs, actually, but it was never like, I basically go to loads and loads of different castings, [00:05:00] but my pure thing was confidence. I’d go in and sit with loads of girls and I never had the confidence, so I’d just walk out and looking back, it really upsets me because I’m like, do you know what? I wish I’d had that confidence to stay in that room and go, I am good enough. But I think that comes with age as well. Especially now I’m a mum of two. Like, I literally don’t care what people think of me like I am who I am. And if you don’t like me, well, it’s kind of your loss because I know I’m a good person.

Speaker3: Casting can be a real.

Speaker1: Oh, it’s horrible.

Speaker2: I had to go through that as well.

Speaker1: And I just didn’t. Now I’ve got the confidence because I’ve [00:05:30] done the jobs and I’ve got the brands have worked with me. But when you’re a young girl living in London, I was 17. I’d done no jobs, no modelling work. You’re in this room full of beautiful girls. Who’ve got confidence. And I just used to sit there and think, well, they’re never going to book me, so I might as well leave. I’m not going to sit here for hours wasting.

Speaker3: I wouldn’t even go for the casting.

Speaker1: No. Oh it’s awful. Yeah. This is like me being completely honest. I’d get in the room and they’d say, talk about yourself for ten minutes. I had nothing to say. And it’s really awful. Like I felt like I didn’t [00:06:00] have I don’t know, it’s weird.

Speaker2: But I think as well, like, looking back, like the 90s thing was different, right? As in like, you know, we’re you know, I know you’re a few years younger than me, but we grew up in the same era. So like I used to get scouted in London and my mum was a model in the 80s and my mum really didn’t want me to get into it, and especially because she knew how toxic and she didn’t want me to go down that path. It was interesting because I was watching. Have either one of you seen the documentary supermodels? And it’s got about, uh, [00:06:30] Cindy Crawford, Naomi Campbell, Christy Turlington. So what happens is it goes into ultimately their rise to fame. And they were basically asked, scouted at 15, literally 15 years old. And you think to yourself because you talk about the confidence thing. But I just think also as a woman or girl at that age, you don’t actually know who you are. No. And, you know, we’ve had these conversations because you’re in your 30s. I’m in my 30s. I’ve had this conversation Payman society [00:07:00] basically says as a woman we are more desirable the younger we are. We’ve had this conversation and then but but your confidence comes in your 30s. So it’s quite funny because you don’t actually own who you are, you know, in your 20s and your teens and then suddenly. So I think there’s like a different type of confidence and sexiness that comes with that in your 30s.

Speaker3: I think of that as like the Princess Di effect, you know, like she was a beautiful 19 year old, whatever she was when she got married. Yeah. But why is she 19? [00:07:30]

Speaker1: That’s crazy.

Speaker3: She was a teenager. Yeah, really. But then when she died, just before she died, she was 30. Whatever it was. Yeah, she was even more attractive because the confidence. Oh, yeah.

Speaker1: Confidence is everything to her. I do believe that. That’s my thing. Confidence. So let’s talk.

Speaker2: So let’s talk about that. So you were at this stage in your life you went to these castings. Did it have do you think looking back now or perhaps you didn’t know it had any effect on your mental health going in that room, especially with being like in a room where things you’re judged by the way you look?

Speaker1: Yeah. Oh, God. Massively. [00:08:00] Even now, when I meet people, I think everyone’s judging me on what I look like because of my job. And actually, it’s even now I have it. And it’s hard because you can’t get that away. I mean, I’ve been in rooms where they’ve gone. You’re not tall enough, you’re not skinny enough, you’re too skinny, your boobs aren’t big enough, your lips aren’t big enough. Like, yeah, there’s so many different things. And I’ve actually had my lips done, like, everyone knows it, so I’ll tell everyone. But I had this thing where I was on this, uh, QVC doing beauty stuff, and the guy behind the makeup was going, get her off. She’s got no lips. Get her off, get the other girl [00:08:30] on. And I was sat there and the camera was there and the lights were on. I was looking there and I was just thinking, oh my God, like. And then I got this complex about my lips. So I do think it’s hard to stay completely true to who you are, especially when they’re judging you on what you look like. It’s not a healthy industry nowadays. I think it’s better. When I started, it was harder. I was very like, they sent me to Milan and I’m a commercial model. I’m more girl next door. I’m not high end fashion runway. And I was living in this Milan model house and it just wasn’t me. So I think, um, yeah, it’s [00:09:00] tricky. Like it is a hard industry.

Speaker2: How did you then how did you then go? So, so from that period of time where you were like doing your full time job, you were modelling and then what happened? Like, how did you then kind of like, like transition into doing it full time.

Speaker1: So basically my ex’s family actually helped a little bit because I worked for his estate agency in the end because it started to pick up. So he said, why don’t you come work with me? Because I’ll allow you to do the odd job. And then it got busier and busier and then Instagram. It helped me a bit, but not loads. But then I was contacting brands myself. [00:09:30] Yeah. So like I’d contact like Lipsy and all different brands. And basically the agency I was with made me very go next door, very, very smiley. And I was like, I’ve got more to offer. They just made me very like one job, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I was like, no, I can do more. I want to do e-com. And then Silk Thread contacted me actually through Facebook, which is random because I used to just share all my pictures on Facebook, everything, and then brands. I think once you work for one brand, then it kind of all falls into one. Then I got another job and another job and it all kind of took off [00:10:00] from there. But it wasn’t easy. Like it’s been hard work and there’s been times where I’ve had no money and it hasn’t been the easiest journey for me, but I just think for young girls who message me now, I think confidence is everything. And that’s why I always say to everyone, like, if you believe in yourself, everyone else will believe in you. For me, I probably lost 5 or 6 years from not believing in myself.

Speaker2: And I and I always say that, you know, last week I was at a conference lecturing Payman was there. Um, it was it was actually he he warmed me right [00:10:30] up. Right? Because he was like, it’s a really academic crowd.

Speaker3: And I meant I wasn’t trying to wind you up so academic.

Speaker1: Oh my God. So.

Speaker2: Um. But he knows. But like, in dentistry and medicine, you’ve got the academics that are literally like we want. To talk about, like the micron like millimetre, like the really science based sort of individuals. And I was a bit intimidated because I was on a stage with some like really prolific, amazingly respected male counterpart. And I tend to stay away from the lecture arena because I don’t have confidence. And also I’ve been labelled as a social media [00:11:00] dentist because I rose to that along with that. And, um, and, you know, like, as you know, Amy, you know, you had, you know, trauma with your teeth, which you talked about, you know, an accident and like, I helped you, you know, and you you can’t get as far as I have. And I’m not tooting my own horn just by being an Instagram dentist. You’ve got to be able to do the work because there’s people in the public eye that also trust the work that you do.

Speaker1: The way the world is now, though, social media is so influential like it is everything. Like I think for any business you’re in now, if you’re on social media, [00:11:30] it’s it’s not as much word of mouth. It’s like social media is big.

Speaker3: And then, you know, you said the the pressure of looking good. Is that a daily pressure too? I mean, I see you’ve got a gigantic following.

Speaker1: It’s even going to nursery. Like I’ll go to nursery. You’ve got to.

Speaker3: Worry about the way you look in every moment.

Speaker1: Yeah. It’s quite sad isn’t it? Well, let’s.

Speaker2: Talk a little bit. Let’s take a step back. Right. Because Payman has touched on the daughter thing. Right. So first of all, was it a conscientious decision where you were like, right, I’m ready to have a baby? And how did it change your life?

Speaker1: It’s changed my life in [00:12:00] every way. The only thing I’d say is the first doesn’t change your life as much. I think the second one’s changed my life, but I’m kind of used to being a mum. I find with Harper I was a bit resentful because I was like, you’ve changed my my life so much, even though I chose to do it. Um, and it’s the best thing ever. But also it’s the hardest. And I think the one thing I’ve had a lot of hate for is being a mum that works. And I found that, yeah, it’s kind of like there was something someone said online about me recently and I kind of sat down with Will and I got a bit upset, but then I was like, I’m not going to let them upset me. [00:12:30] I’m actually working really hard to give them the best life possible, and I don’t want to live off my partner. I’m very independent. Like, I want to know that if anything happened between us, I’d be fine even with my girls. And I think too many women, especially women I know, live off their partner, and that’s fine. But I’ve never been that way. I was in a controlling relationship, um, before with by money. And I will never live like that again. Um, but everyone’s different, aren’t they? And I don’t think you can say what’s right or wrong. Like, some people love that choices. Some people don’t, and that’s fine. And I never judge. [00:13:00] I think I’m someone who will never judge other people. I think if you’re happy doing that, fine doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t affect me. But I think a lot of people judge, especially online, because I share that I’m working and I’m a mum, and sometimes I think it’s probably because they’re jealous. Do you know what way?

Speaker2: I think there’s a lot of different things that you’ve said, and I think it’s really interesting. First of all, the one thing that stood out was that you said that your mum said that you should, um, be you shouldn’t stand out. And so, as I was saying with the lecture that I did, people [00:13:30] said to me, does putting yourself online like, can you cope with the trolls? How is it putting yourself out there? And my answer was like, you just never know. And you can either be just like living life really blandly or like low key, but ultimately, the end of the day, you’ll regret not ever putting yourself out there. So I don’t have regrets. The second thing is, is that you also said you are judged for your appearance. At the end of the day, you’re a beautiful woman and I think people are so quick to judge being like, she’s got to where she has because of her looks. I get that sometimes as [00:14:00] well, you know, not that I’m beautiful, but it’s like I get that. But like, as in, like I get that where people assume that because you because you enjoy like your youth with your fashion.

Speaker3: I listen to this. I think this is important nuance. Right.

Speaker2: Go on.

Speaker3: You have both of you have gotten to where you’ve gotten partly because of your looks. I mean, she’s in the looks business. She’s in the looks business. Yeah. Do you know what she’s in? The looks business.

Speaker1: I think looks are only 10%.

Speaker3: Of. Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker1: So you think.

Speaker2: Pretty privilege is a thing.

Speaker1: Pretty does help.

Speaker3: Wait wait wait. Yeah.

Speaker2: Go on. [00:14:30] Yeah.

Speaker3: So so you’re I mean, you’re even Tom, Dick or Harry get to where they get to because of their height or whatever. Yeah. You know, your looks are part of you and they have helped you or hindered you. If you’re in, in different situations, that’s that’s you got to you got to just take that as a base, a baseline. But the important thing is it’s not only your looks. Yeah.

Speaker1: You can’t just have that.

Speaker3: That’s you know, it’s like you’re not only an Instagram dentist, you’re good at composite. You know like so veneers. [00:15:00]

Speaker2: Veneers will do that. Yeah.

Speaker1: So does mine.

Speaker3: So so similarly. And I think we’ve noticed it in podcasts before we were talking about you know Joe Rogan. He a bit of a jock but he’s very deep. Yeah. And now we’re seeing you know and it’s not you’re not one thing or the other. She’s not just a beautiful lady or just a model, just a mother. It’s many things though. Yeah, but.

Speaker2: I think the thing is, I think the lack of nuanced thinking is the thing that makes it difficult. Like, especially, especially like what I’ve found is as well, like, I’ve always thought I’d love to be the [00:15:30] American dream. Hear me out. And I think Amy will understand what I mean, because in America especially, my mum went to university in America and lived there for a long time, so she was the one that also made me aware of this. In America. It’s the American dream, right? If you want to put yourself out there, if you’re confident, if you embrace, like being different in a way, you know, again, let’s be nuanced with that.

Speaker3: Um, people, people cheer you on.

Speaker2: Cheer you on in the UK. People are like, dole yourself down. And I remember a university I [00:16:00] lived with a bunch of because obviously I lived with a lot of boarding school girls, because I know you grew up in the environment and they were literally like, you’re really exotic. And they were like, if you want to get a boyfriend, wear t shirt and jeans, don’t wear that. Don’t dye. And like, you know me, like I’m extravagant. I like my fashion. Do you know what I mean? All that kind of stuff. Did you have a boyfriend?

Speaker1: I think.

Speaker2: I didn’t. I didn’t have a boyfriend. But the thing is, I did dial myself down. No, no, I mean, I did, I did, I actually ended up I ended up going out with an English boy that, like, was obsessed with exotic girls. So it worked out in my favour. But the point is, the point is, is that, you know, it is [00:16:30] this sort of like dulling down thing.

Speaker1: I’m not about that, though. I think when you’re extra, I like to go in a restaurant and everyone look. Do you know what I mean? What you’re wearing. My partner says that he goes, you just dress the girls up and yourself up so you don’t care about the food. You just want everyone to look at you. And I’m like, so what? Yeah, that is who I am. I think being extra gets you remembered. I think if you’re someone who just wears simple things, you’re never going to get remembered.

Speaker3: Why are you that person?

Speaker1: Because I like attention.

Speaker2: Why? And she owns it.

Speaker1: Why? Um, I don’t really know. Actually. I just.

Speaker3: Love. Was there a debt of attention that you’re now trying to recover? No. [00:17:00]

Speaker1: I’ve been a child model. Like I’ve had the most attention. Probably with my.

Speaker3: Siblings.

Speaker1: You just thrive in that. I’m just. I maybe had a bit of ADHD as a kid. My mum and dad think. Yeah, my mum and dad think I probably did have ADHD, which I probably still do a bit. I just like attention and I’m not going to say I don’t because I do, and I like wearing the extra outfits and being out there because everyone looks at you like, what’s wrong.

Speaker3: With I’m the total opposite. As a podcast host, people would be thinking now, yeah, right. But I do not like he has.

Speaker2: The camera front facing. No, no.

Speaker3: I [00:17:30] don’t even like to people to turn around and notice me in a restaurant. Oh really? At all? At all I know, I.

Speaker1: Know, I do. Yeah.

Speaker3: Situations where I’m centre of attention standing on stage or whatever. Yeah, stress the hell out of me, I hate it, yeah, I do it, but I hate it.

Speaker1: Everyone’s different. I hate public speaking, though. That’s one thing I hate. I’ve got my wedding next year and I just, I don’t want to do a speech. And everyone’s like, come on, you need to say something, I hate it, I hate everyone. That’s weird on my work.

Speaker3: Like attention, but not.

Speaker1: Yeah, I don’t know, public speaking. I always worry I’m going to say the wrong thing. I’ve got like. [00:18:00]

Speaker3: Attention about the way you look rather than about what you say. Not really.

Speaker1: But I’ve got no filter and everyone in my family, all my friends, know it. I say things and I’m like, I shouldn’t have said that.

Speaker2: Well, Amy, let’s talk about this, right? Right. Because I think it’s really important. Like one thing that you do online is you’re very transparent about motherhood and identity. Yeah. And I think the one thing is, is that people do get hate. Women do get hate because they’re like, how can you be obsessed with your career or the way you look? I mean, women get so much hate even for like, losing weight after a pregnancy, you know, things like that. Yeah.

Speaker1: You’re working out.

Speaker3: I mean, we [00:18:30] can get down to getting hate because of being on Instagram. Right? But your business is Instagram.

Speaker2: Yeah, but I’m talking.

Speaker3: But it’s like it’s like me getting getting hate or worrying about, uh, complaints about my toothpaste or something. My business is toothpaste. Yeah. So yeah, along with that comes comes some, some, you know, customer service. I think I.

Speaker1: Treat my social community as like my friends. And sometimes even my family are like, Amy, you’re sharing this, but you’re sharing it. It’s that many people, like I sometimes forget.

Speaker3: That’s why you’ve [00:19:00] got this amazing flow.

Speaker1: But that’s why. Because I like to be real. And I do like my stories are more my real life. My Instagram is more because brands obviously look at it as well, and if I just shared all the real stuff, I’d be cut out of the modelling industry. I remember when I was pregnant, I got barely booked at all. Really? Yeah. I had.

Speaker2: Do you think discrimination exists for pregnant models?

Speaker1: Yes, massively. There’s girls I know who have been models and they’re probably more fashion, but they won’t even share. They’ve had the baby. Oh, there’s quite a lot of girls I know who’ve done that for me. Mine’s I share everything. It’s my fashion diaries, [00:19:30] my lifestyle, everything and modelling. I don’t model as much like this week. I’ve done a lot of e-com and website modelling. Um, but yeah, it’s. I don’t like to share. Like, if I share the girls, I’ll then go a week without sharing them because I’m like, right, I need to share more modelling stuff so brands can see that I’m back working. I’ve got to be open to everyone, and that’s what I’m finding hard at the minute. I’m like, if I share the girls too much and then I’m going to Cyprus for the swimwear thing in a few weeks, then I’m like, am I sharing too much modelling stuff? Do you know what I mean?

Speaker2: It’s like a question for you as well. So talk to us a little bit because, [00:20:00] um, obviously as medical people talk to us a little bit about your, the um, condition that you had during your pregnancy, what it’s called and what it’s about and how it affected you.

Speaker1: So hyperemesis gravidarum affects 1% of women. Um, I actually went on the news to talk about it when I was heavily pregnant a week before I had, uh, Sienna. And then I got hate again because people were like, well, if you’ve got it that bad, why are you on TV talking about it? Um, but for me, the first three months, I’m basically bedridden. So from six weeks to about 13 weeks, I’m literally in bed, like, I can’t move. [00:20:30] I’m like, in hospital. I’m drip really sick. I can’t eat like, it’s horrific, like even water. I’d throw up. And there was one night my partner, I literally lied in the bed and I threw up constantly again and again. And again, how.

Speaker2: Does the baby? So how does the hospital take care of the baby during that time?

Speaker1: Basically, the baby takes everything from you. So the baby’s fine, which is crazy. This is the thing about the disease, but there’s never going to be enough medical stuff done on it. I don’t think not enough women get it.

Speaker3: 1% is still a lot.

Speaker1: Yeah, it is, it is.

Speaker3: I heard Amy talk on another podcast. She said she [00:21:00] got to the point of wanting to terminate the pregnancy. I did, I begged.

Speaker1: The nurse at ten weeks. I said, please let me terminate.

Speaker3: That’s how ill she was.

Speaker1: And I actually.

Speaker2: And how did you push through those moments?

Speaker1: Um, I don’t really know. Do you know what? Instagram helped me a lot. And this is why I’m so thankful to my social following. Actually, for so many things in my life. Losing my Nan when I actually had a really low time, I turned to my Instagram and shared loads and I got loads of people messaging me and HG. The only way I got through is my social media following. Genuinely, it really upsets me because actually the people online helped me get [00:21:30] through that time.

Speaker2: Yeah, I know, I know, yeah. And I’m really glad because obviously I remember as well, like you were messaging me at the time and you were in hospital and I was checking in on you, you know, it’s all right. It’s all right.

Speaker1: It’s one of those times because I’m such a doer and I was in bed for so long, like, you literally can’t do anything. Yeah. Um.

Speaker3: I mean, it’s a serious thing. You said, uh, that’s, uh, one one lady committed suicide. Oh, yeah?

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: Really? Yeah. I have loads loads of people terminate the pregnancies. Yeah, yeah. No.

Speaker2: I [00:22:00] know, I know, but it’s all right. It’s all right. You know, you should talk about it because I think you’ve inspired and helped so many people. You know, I think it’s one.

Speaker1: Of the reasons I won’t go on to have any more kids as well. Yeah.

Speaker2: Were you hospitalised in this for the whole three months?

Speaker1: Oh, yeah. Uh, no, not the whole three months. I’d go back in, so like, I’d come home for a few days and then have to go back in. I think it just upsets me because it’s a really horrible disease that no one knows enough about. So for me, I’d lie on the floor in A&E and I’d be throwing up constantly. They’d inject me [00:22:30] to try and stop me being sick. And one time this guy dragged me across the floor, thought I was a drunk, and I was like, I’m pregnant. But because I was so slim, I was tiny. Yeah, I remember.

Speaker2: Because you lost even.

Speaker1: More weight. Six stone, six stone. And I was so unwell and I couldn’t fight my corner because I didn’t have any energy. Um, it’s just a really it just really affects.

Speaker3: The other thing is the mentally the situation in hospitals is they’re at breaking point. Oh, I had to be put in the whole time. I was on a.

Speaker1: Ward with all old people who were dying.

Speaker3: So I was like, sleeping in the corridor. Yeah. [00:23:00] Is normal. Oh it’s awful. This is when things are bad.

Speaker1: This is why I won’t do HG again. I think if there was the right support, I’d probably go and have one more child.

Speaker2: And there’s no specialists like gynaecologists or like, not really.

Speaker1: Really, not really. No. Like unless you pay for it and go to a private hospital.

Speaker2: And people don’t have that privilege.

Speaker1: Really. Well, exactly like but yeah, I just think there’s not enough done about it. But the amount of women, it’s the most my social media has ever gone like crazy is when I had my HG, because so many women actually had it and were messaging me, and because I’ve got, [00:23:30] um, like a big following, I think I actually did something like I helped other women and all these women messaged me now. But the kind of weird thing is, once you’ve had it, you don’t want to like, talk about it anymore. It’s like if you had like trauma, it’s yeah, it’s trauma, but it’s like dramatic. I know people like the medication I was on was for people who have got chemotherapy who are really sick. So it is like it’s not like having cancer. But they do say that it is similar because the sickness, you’re just so unwell. I know, like obviously you’re having a baby, so you’re choosing to do that. It’s very different. [00:24:00] But yeah, it’s really affected me like definitely.

Speaker2: Because I think as well, like the human bodies, I mean obviously like I’ve never gone through anything like that. But one experience that I had at um, when I was training, I had a needle stick injury. So basically there was blood on blood contact, and we used to have a prison contract, this NHS practice that I was working in. So this I was taking out teeth and then basically the instruments slipped, cut into my glove. And the first thing that the patient said was, don’t worry, I don’t take drugs. [00:24:30] And I was like, that’s a bit weird, weird thing to say. So anyway, my nurse told the receptionist, receptionist called the prison and prison were like, she’s in prison for drugs. Went occupational health. She refused to take a blood test. So basically they put me on HIV prophylaxis for three months and I got really sick. I was one of those people again. And like the 1%, I was constantly vomiting face like fainting at work and stuff. And you said it becomes like a distant memory because I think the [00:25:00] human body, when it comes to trauma, we protect ourselves in the same way that you’ll see that like people have been in car accidents and lost their families, they dissociate. Right? Because at the same time, but you’ve been such an amazing inspiration to so many people. So I think I get upset.

Speaker1: Though actually, the reason I always get upset is because of my social media following. That’s why I get upset because I think without them I wouldn’t have got through that time. I’d sit on Instagram all day in my bed from literally the minute I woke up to the minute I went to bed, just literally sharing stories, talking to people [00:25:30] like. And that’s the only way it got me through mentally. If I hadn’t have had those guys messaging me and all those women, I don’t know what I’d have done. What I feel bad about now, though, is I don’t have the time to message anyone back. Anymore, but I was in bed the whole time. I literally would be on my phone. Community.

Speaker2: Right. Because and I always say it’s an online community. It’s like it’s a community that, you know, people underestimate. And at the time, you didn’t have anyone available with you. So you had to, like, reach out to your online community. And there were women who.

Speaker1: Had gone through it. And I think that that’s the reason I get upset is because I know [00:26:00] how important my Instagram is as well. Like people say, oh, you’re just posting this and that. I’m like, no, there’s so much more than that. Like, I’m helping people and I’m not someone who will share. I’ve got a new handbag, like people look at me and they’ve said things about me, or you buy designer stuff. I’m like, I don’t just buy designer. Like, I like to inspire women that if you work hard, you can go get it. Like Will actually said to me, if he gets this deal at work, he’s like, I’ll go buy you a Chanel bag. That doesn’t get me the same. I’m like, I’ll go buy my own bag. Like I’ve always been like that. Yeah, like it’s nice to be brought something like I’ve got watches and my car and all these nice [00:26:30] things, but I like doing it myself. And actually that gives me the buzz even more.

Speaker2: Do you know what Payman said? Something. I think that really stuck with me on initial. He was like, also, when people come from a privileged background, know we like people, judge it like people love the rags to riches. But then he said, it’s unfair because if you do come from privilege, why can’t you be successful? And why can’t people be like, this person’s actually, you know, they call it like um, Neto babies or something like now, like, you know, like if you’re born. So like, if you’re a successful [00:27:00] model. Oh, well, she’s Cindy Crawford’s daughter, so obviously like, it doesn’t. Yeah, but it doesn’t mean. And also equally, there are people that are very rich and successful and they have kids that go on to do nothing. Do you see what I mean? So I think like we need to recognise and celebrate that like privilege is exists, it will give you, but it’s also what you do with that. And sometimes it’s harder to be more successful because people assume that you’ve had that just.

Speaker3: In our field. Yeah. If you’re treating a patient privately with toothache, awful toothache, his pain, he [00:27:30] could be a billionaire. Yeah. His pain is the same as if you’re treating someone who’s on the NHS and. Yeah, and unemployed. The pain is the same in that patient. Yeah.

Speaker1: The one thing for me is when I sat in A&E and I literally went in there, will packed a bag for me and I had my joggers on and normally I’m glam and got my nice watch, my jewellery and everything on. I had nothing on that day and I actually looked around the room and it actually everything was put into perspective for me because I was like, actually all those things that I’ve worked my ass off for won’t matter. [00:28:00] It won’t make me better right now. Like, I was like, literally all I want is for you to say, give me a drug and make me better for me. I sat there and I thought, I’m literally here with this Sainsbury’s bag that Will had given me this little yellow Sainsbury’s bag. I sat there so unwell, literally on a drip in the room, like so unwell and I just thought, wow, all those things I’ve worked for. It’s the thing about Steven Jobs. He put this thing on, didn’t he? Saying that when you’re on your deathbed you don’t look at all the things you’ve had. You kind of look at your family and your friends. And for me, with my career as well, I wasn’t going to have children to a lot later. And I actually said I did the two under [00:28:30] two, and I said I wasn’t going to have a second until Harper was in school so I could carry on with my career. But actually, I’m so glad I did because I’ve got my girls now and they give me purpose. I work hard and it is a massive juggle. I’m not going to lie.

Speaker3: Like, I mean, let’s talk about that because mum, guilt and having it all. I don’t have.

Speaker1: The mum guilt. No I do, I do well.

Speaker3: In the, the thing that I read about you, there was plenty of mum guilt in that one. You know.

Speaker1: I do. And I don’t like when I’m not with the girls. Like I can focus on my work because I’ve got really good people who help. [00:29:00] So I think when they’re looked after by someone you trust, it’s different. But the whole.

Speaker3: The whole having it all thing. Yeah, we see it in dentistry. Yeah. Tell us we’ve got we’ve got Rhona here. Could have it all. Yeah. But she hasn’t got kids yet.

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah. The only thing I’d say is it’s more on the woman. I don’t care if you’re the breadwinner, anything. It’s always on the woman because you have carried those children. You have this tie that you can’t switch off. Whereas men just think differently because they haven’t carried the baby. Yeah. Biologically. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like they’re your babies. Like even will. He’s like, stop micromanaging me in the [00:29:30] night because I’m like, don’t do the nappy like this. Do it like this. Dress her in this. And he’s like, oh my God. But I just think women, especially when you’re a control freak and you’re independent, you’re like me, Rona. Like like things a certain way. Yeah. Like I’m very like that. But then I put myself under so much pressure. So it is it’s a hard juggle. If you want to work as a mum, it is. But then people in. I’m lucky that I’m in a career that works around my kids. I get paid well. Do you know what I mean? So.

Speaker3: So I was, I was talking to, uh, Zainab about this. Right. Another dentist. [00:30:00] Right. If something’s got to give, which which one gives. So. And I was.

Speaker1: Saying money because you can’t. My kids come first. It works.

Speaker2: Gives.

Speaker3: Um, I found the the reality is the relationship gives.

Speaker1: Oh, God.

Speaker2: Yes. How does it impact your relationship and does that impact your mental health work?

Speaker3: If you’ve got a shoot in Dubai, you’re not going to not go to that. If you, you know, everyone’s relying on you, so you’ve got to go to that. Oh, your.

Speaker1: Relationship is the one thing that dies. No, I’m joking, it doesn’t die. I think when you’ve got [00:30:30] young children, we’ve got six month old and a two year old and it’s like a toddler and a baby, and we’re both working a lot of our friends. One of them’s at home. So for me, I’m so determined to not lose. My career, and I know that if I took my name out of the game for a year, I’d get forgotten about. Genuinely, that’s the problem.

Speaker2: With online, I think, people. But, you know, I think people don’t like. So one of my really good friends, Shivani, you know, she’s also an incredible podcast host. You know, she said to me, she sometimes calls me up and she said that she was having a conversation about with Jay Shetty. And Jay Shetty is one [00:31:00] of the most famous podcasters. He goes to her, don’t not post. You have to post every day because people will forget. Well, even you have to do it every single day because people will forget.

Speaker3: You both.

Speaker2: Know that.

Speaker1: Well, even before I was here, I was literally like, got ten minutes, I need to post something. I haven’t done it yet, but I’m like, I have to post today because I need to stay relevant. But that’s the pressure I have when I’m with my girls. It’s like, do I sit on my phone like? And sometimes I do because it is my job as well. It’s my business and I’m the only one who can do it. But I mean.

Speaker3: We’ve we’ve hired models and some of [00:31:30] them have Instagram and some of them don’t. Yeah. It’s the Instagram really important to getting.

Speaker1: It is now.

Speaker2: Listen Payman I think I think you know, you’re forgetting something like the models you’re talking about. They are soon going to be forgotten. Let’s think about this. When I was watching the documentary with the models like Cindy Crawford, Naomi Campbell, like they got scouted, they said they’d often get a photograph taken. They wouldn’t see it until it was in the magazine. It barely gets retouched. You see what I mean? Everything was done in that motion. Those were the women that were the campaigns on Versace, Dolce [00:32:00] and Gabbana. Now we’ve got Kim Kardashian that is walking the catwalk and Kendall and all this stuff. It’s influencers, their influencers. And as, as Henry said last week, people want to be influencers more than they want to actually be celebrities and other singers and actors and stuff. So actually, this world, like, I think if they don’t do online, they will get forgotten. They’re not moving all the time and they haven’t pivoted.

Speaker1: This is why I don’t work with an agent, because they put so much pressure. I’ve done the agent thing at the minute while I’ve got young kids. I’m not working with agents just because of the pressure. I [00:32:30] can’t cope with it because they’re like on you. But I think any agent like big models. The weird thing is, I looked at girls when I was growing with my career and they were like the big, big time girls, and now they come to me and go, what do I do for this? Who do I work with? And I’m like, actually, the tables have turned. Yeah.

Speaker3: Because of social.

Speaker2: Yeah.

Speaker1: Well, yeah. And also I share what I want to share. I work with photographers I want to work with, I know my angles. Like I’m going to Cyprus for a swimwear campaign. They could have paid a whole team, but they’ll pay me because they know I’ve done it 16 years. I can go work with my you know what you want. [00:33:00] I’ll get the same images. They can use them for the website. Probably cost them half as well. Like I just think the whole industry has changed. It has. But my question.

Speaker2: For you as well, does it ever cross your mind? Obviously, like you’re a beautiful woman and you will continue to be beautiful. But we know that in a way, the way that we look is a depreciating asset, right? Because we get older. And don’t get me wrong, there are older people in the modelling industry, but does it ever cross your mind? You’re like, can I do this forever? And what happens when like my time is up? Let dare [00:33:30] I say, um.

Speaker1: Yes and no. I think I want to be someone who just keeps going. Yeah. And I think actually age is. Do you know, I mean, women at 45 who look amazing. I think you just have to embrace it as well. And you move into a different genre as well with different brands. And I just think I’ll move with the times. And to be honest, I live for the moment harder with children, but I do like I’m very much this is my time right now and if something changes, I’ll change it. Like I’m not like, oh my god, if this changes because everything in life changes. People get ill, things change. [00:34:00] Money comes and goes like relationships. So actually, I’m not scared of getting older because you don’t even know if you’ll be here. Do you know what I mean? I’ve got friends who I don’t know, like lost parents recently, and I like to live for the moment. I don’t like to think about the future. Yeah, but I do invest. Like, I think you have to invest in things and property. Like maybe I’ll go into property. I love interiors, but I’m happy doing what I’m doing now. Yeah, I’m just not that person because it will stress me out otherwise. Then I’ll be like, oh my God, what am I going to do.

Speaker3: To enjoy the I mean, it doesn’t feel very enjoyable, [00:34:30] a photo shoot.

Speaker1: Um, do you know what I see?

Speaker2: I love it, I love making content.

Speaker1: I love content, I do love content, but I go through stages. Like this week I’ve just done modelling for brands and I’ll turn up, do the shots and then go home.

Speaker2: And you like it?

Speaker1: I’ve lost the love for it, I think because I’ve done it all. I’ve done the beauty camp, they’ve done long.

Speaker3: Days and.

Speaker1: Long days, and I did a TV advert that was waiting around. I used to get the buzz because I’d be like, oh my God, it’s all about me. I’m on this shoot. It’s amazing. I think because I’ve done it all, you [00:35:00] kind of don’t get it’s like anything, isn’t it?

Speaker2: It’s like Dental stress going to say. Do you remember like the first time you do a really successful composite bonding kiss? You’re amazing. You do composite bonding every day. You’re like, whatever. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, I’ve done it, you know, kick anymore.

Speaker1: But it’s a job and I’m lucky to have a job I like. I think there’s a lot of people out there who hate their jobs. They don’t like their jobs. And I feel blessed that it works around my girls. I’ve got my own business. I make them money like, and I love doing what I do. I do love my content creation.

Speaker3: I wish pivoted to TikTok as well.

Speaker1: Not yet. This is my thing. I will, [00:35:30] I will very soon, but not yet. I just think at the minute I’ve got so much pressure. We’re basically planning an abroad wedding. I’ve got a six month old baby. Most women don’t go back to work for a year. Been working since she was a week old. Dealing with the toddler I don’t. I’ve put pressure on myself a lot and then I have a breakdown. I basically like can’t cope. So I’m kind of like, I know what I can cope with at the moment and Instagram’s fine. I will come back and I’ll do more YouTube next year. Tiktok when they’re both in nursery. But at the same time, I’m not going to put pressure on myself. It makes me ill and [00:36:00] health is everything.

Speaker2: Totally. And I really relate to that because I know sometimes, like you can get physical symptoms like burnout and and the stress. I’m that kind of person. I go, go, go. And then I get really ill with flu. I get ill like once every two months. At one point I had to see an endocrinologist because also like there is this element, I’m like, do I have ADHD where you like multitask ten things at once, you know, you’re like, and then you’re just literally like, I’m so exhausted and your brain like, like in the middle of the night starts thinking about stuff. So I think it’s [00:36:30] like super, super interesting. Um.

Speaker1: Burnout is actually a thing as well. Like, I actually had it. I went to Dubai when Harper was six months old, shot this swimwear campaign because I was like, I don’t want people to forget about me. Literally took my mum. We were shooting every day, came back and I ended up in hospital and the doctor actually said to me, he goes, you’re someone who likes to just do, do, do, aren’t you? He goes, how long ago did you have your child? He goes, you’ll end up in here with sepsis. If you don’t stop, he goes, you’re going to get really bad infection.

Speaker3: So look, the mind.

Speaker1: He didn’t even know mind.

Speaker3: Body connection, right. It’s. We used to totally [00:37:00] have them as separate things.

Speaker1: I’ve been unwell a lot in hospital, so I’m like, do you know what? You can get.

Speaker3: Physical illness from.

Speaker1: Mental. Exactly.

Speaker3: And the opposite, right. And the opposite if you’re, if you’re if you’re, you know, um, got pain all the time I know, make you depressed, right.

Speaker1: Yeah. I know what I can cope with. And right now I’m coping, but I can’t cope with anymore. Yeah. So.

Speaker2: So do you think now, like, as you’ve become a mother, as you’ve become, like, more wise in the game that you’ve been able to prioritise the things that really matter to you? [00:37:30]

Speaker1: Yeah I have. Being a mum like I do, prioritise my kids, they come above everything. Um, but also it’s hard because I have this pressure of wanting to still be the girl that everyone like. I feel like at the minute I’m getting overtaken and I’m like, oh my God, but I just don’t have the physical time to actually push it as much as I want. But I know everything comes and goes. Do you know what I mean? So I know next year I’ll be able to push it more, and I don’t want that to be detriment to my girls. My children’s childhood is everything to me. Like, so what.

Speaker3: About [00:38:00] what about me time? Is that something you get tomorrow morning?

Speaker1: I’ve said to Will. I’m like, please just take the girls out for an hour. I need time to just sit and watch a film. I’ve actually said that to him because also for me, my break is like, I’ll go on the train home today, then I’ll sit on my phone and be emailing, then posting. Then I get home to my girls.

Speaker2: That’s like me. That’s my.

Speaker1: Break. It’s not a break, it’s not helping. Like, and then I’ll sit on my phone and WhatsApp with my friends, like voice notes and I’m like organising my hen do and things. And that’s not a break either. I need an hour tomorrow. I feel my body, I can my body tells me now an hour just [00:38:30] to sit there and do nothing, which I don’t do enough of. I’m a go, go go. That’s why HG in hospital I find really hard because I was just sat there and I was like, oh my God, I can’t do anything, I can’t do anything. I’ve got no energy, I’m sick. I’m just like, I find it really hard. I miss you.

Speaker4: That’s all right. I was like, what is that?

Speaker2: Um, so tell us a little bit as well. How has, um how has it been? Has it been difficult to find a partner with such an online presence? And I know we’ve talked about stuff as well. Like, as, like when you’re such a driven, ambitious woman, do [00:39:00] you think it’s also been difficult to find a man that you feels complements you what you do and and you know, the balance? Yeah.

Speaker1: It’s hard. I think when I met Will, he found it quite hard because I was travelling here, there and everywhere. And I was quite driven. Um, but he’s just more like a chilled out guy. I think my ex was very like me and we just didn’t work. I think you have to be opposite.

Speaker2: Chilled, calm. Yeah. Like my my partner’s like that.

Speaker1: He’s like, just chill out. Like he’s like the calm one. I’m like frantic, like I need to get this to this person. Or if I have a deadline, [00:39:30] I’m like, I need to do this. So I think you have to have a balance and you have to like, complement each other. Sometimes I’m like, I don’t understand how you’re so calm. Yeah. And I’m so like this. But, um, yeah, it is hard. But I met him and he didn’t know what I did. Yeah. We met.

Speaker4: Yeah, we talked about that.

Speaker2: So tell us, Amy, what is it? What’s planned for the future, you know, what do you think? You know, at the moment? I know you said you like living in the present. What do you think is going to make you feel really fulfilled and happy in the next few years?

Speaker1: Well, obviously, I’m getting married next summer, so I’m excited [00:40:00] about that. Um, to be honest, I don’t really know. Like, I love my work. Um, but I do want to push it more. I want to travel more. And that’s what is really hard with children. That’s the one thing that I haven’t been able to do as much. Um, but I do want to get back to my travels next year. I want to do more different shoots as well. Like I want to share different stuff. This is for me. I feel like I’m stuck in a rut at the minute. I’m just sharing the same thing and I’m like, okay, I need to switch this up. But I think the thing I’m finding hard is people like reality, especially Reels and Instagram now has changed. It’s [00:40:30] very real. And that’s what I find hard because I’m like, how do I mix this with being a model, sharing all my modelling content, but then also being real and authentic, real, authentic person. Then you share too much and brands are like, whoa, I’ve seen that about her. And now I don’t want to book her. So it’s really hard.

Speaker3: I think you should think about the kind of brand that’s that’s attracted to you.

Speaker1: Yeah, well, actually, the brand I shop for, I’ve shot for her for eight years on Tuesday, and she said, the reason I’ve booked you again, obviously, I sell well for her, but she goes, you’re a working mom. So you inspire women. So when they come [00:41:00] to my brand, they like you as well. They follow you. And I think.

Speaker2: There’s a space for that, like you said, like there is a space because you were talking about it. And it’s like the lack of do you know what I think controversial. We are controversial on this podcast. We don’t have a filter like me. I think women that get so angry and give hate to moms that still work are triggered in some way. In fact, anyone that gives hate is they’re triggered. And I think like the thing is, I have always been honest. Like I’m the and it’s funny because [00:41:30] people online, by the way, they like, oh, she’s obviously like a single career woman. I’m like, hun, I’ve been in a relationship for like years just because I don’t show that side of me. But it’s almost like people find it really difficult to resonate with the person that’s really ambitious and wants to work and wants to be a good mom.

Speaker3: Why you don’t? Why do you care so much, Amy? Amy says she no longer cares.

Speaker1: Are you still do a little bit. You do, you.

Speaker2: Do, you do.

Speaker3: What do you think is competitiveness?

Speaker1: It’s just, I don’t know. They probably. They must be insecure. Because why would you be like that to another woman? I am all [00:42:00] for supporting.

Speaker3: Give women give off like, you know, nasty vibes. No I’m not.

Speaker1: I’m not like that. That’s not. I’ve not been brought up to be like that. But there’s a lot of wills. Notice it. A lot of women just don’t like me.

Speaker2: But you know what? I tell you one thing. It’s I think as well, it’s literally like people get triggered by things that they see in other people that they need to work on in themselves, you know? And I’ve recently been doing them like, why is this upsetting me and why is this triggering me? You know, because actually, I need to work on this myself. Amy, we could talk to you for hours and hours [00:42:30] because, you know, you’re such a great woman. I’m so grateful that you’ve come on to this podcast. Um, you know, I think that your journey is really brave. I think you’ve inspired a lot of women, especially growing up. No, no, no, no, it’s okay. And like things.

Speaker1: In life there, isn’t it? When you talk about them and you’re like, oh gosh, every time I talk about that.

Speaker3: Yeah. I was upset when I was listening to the podcast about it.

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: I really thought your other podcast was upsetting.

Speaker1: Yeah. No it is. It’s hard, I think, unless you’ve been through it as well. It’s really hard to like my partner will say whenever I say about another kid, he’s like, no way. Because [00:43:00] it really affected him and his wife. Of course. Of course, of course.

Speaker2: But, you know, now you’ve got two beautiful daughters. You’re going to inspire them and instil them. Yeah. Um, and yeah. And thank you so much. We really enjoyed it.

Speaker4: Thank you, thank you.

Speaker3: Thank you, thank you.