Speaker1: If you can excel, it doesn’t matter on what. If you want to be a dancer, be a great dancer, right? Go to Juilliard, be a great dancer or anywhere else. But be good. Be out there and enjoy what you’re doing. And I think part of the education is very important to try a little bit of everything. Try to learn a bit more from all the subjects because that builds your general knowledge, which is important.

Speaker2: This is Dental [00:00:30] Leaders. The podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Speaker3: It gives me great pleasure to welcome Luisa Mateescu onto the podcast. I first met Luisa at a my dentist event and at Mini Smile Makeover, and what struck me about Luisa [00:01:00] was that you were so, so up for it, so into doing the best. And, you know, like someone who wanted to learn like a hunger for learning, that I sometimes see that in people’s eyes, a glint in their eye, you know. And I was very interested in your story of coming over from Romania, joining my dentist and and all the other stuff you’ve done. Massive pleasure to have you on the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. So, Lisa, take me back to your [00:01:30] backstory, sort of where you were born. Why did you even think medical, let alone dental, was what was what was the thinking as a child or you were you were you? Do you have family members in the field or no backstory?

Speaker1: Not really. So I come from Romania. It’s a small city very close to Bucharest, which is the capital of Romania. Um, we don’t have doctors in the family. We have a distant relative that [00:02:00] is a dentist. I found out about him later, but it’s simple as this. My parents and their parents were quite old school. So if you want to do something with your life, you should be either a doctor, either a lawyer. Obviously, there’s more about that. But my parents wanted me to be a doctor and they kind of implemented that to my head, so I don’t know if I want. I always wanted to be a doctor or I’ve been educated [00:02:30] that I wanted to be a doctor.

Speaker3: But yeah, I’m trying that with my daughter right now. Yeah, not very easy. Were they dropping little hints? You’re going to be a doctor, Mrs.. Doctor.

Speaker1: Well be to actually have the title as a doctor, even if I’m not like, I’m not I don’t have a PhD. I’m not a general practitioner. I’m a doctor of the teeth. Right. I’m a I’m a doctor of dental medicine. So it’s still good enough because it gives you more flexibility. So that’s why I actually chose dentistry [00:03:00] in the end, because my parents wanted me to be a surgeon, obviously, obviously a neurosurgeon or something, that you don’t have a life, you just stay in the.

Speaker3: What do your parents.

Speaker1: Do? Well, my parents, my father has a business. Well, two actually, it’s quite funny, actually. This is a interesting story. My father is actually a bodybuilder, so he loves going to the gym. He eats very, very healthy. And he won and [00:03:30] participated in multiple competitions. Well, he actually won third prize into a worldwide competition bodybuilder for his age like over 50, which was really good. He now he quit. So he’s not the same, but he’s still very good in shape. He still goes to the gym like four times, a four times a week. But he was really into it. But he’s also a businessman, so he has a business. Basically. He sells construction materials and everything [00:04:00] that deals with that and also builds houses or small numbers of houses or block of flats.

Speaker3: Was it was it not a thought of going into the family business?

Speaker1: No. Well, actually there are three brothers. So yes, I have two other uncles. So when me and my cousins, when we were little, they kind of decided that the kids will not go into the family business. So I always had that in mind. So my parents, because.

Speaker3: There’s so many of [00:04:30] you.

Speaker1: Because it would have been arguments. Yes, probably. That’s why. So we were very tiny at that point. So my parents said, okay, so no family business is fine. So she’s going to become a doctor. That’s what I’ve done lately. Like lately, almost 15 years ago, I think he opened the gym as well. So we have one of the fanciest gym in the town. So everyone goes there and it is a very good gym, so he can train and have whatever he wants for his training, like properly, because [00:05:00] no other gym was supplying with what he wanted. So yeah. Your mom.

Speaker3: Work as well or no.

Speaker1: My mom quit working when I was born and she dedicated all her time for me. Are you the only child step? Yes.

Speaker3: Are you.

Speaker1: Right? And. But now she’s helping at the gym. So basically, she’s managing the gym as much as she can. Whenever they have a new girl hired or something, she’s teaching them. It’s just. Like a manager. She goes there whenever it’s busy because it became become very busy. So she helps the family business. [00:05:30]

Speaker3: So your dad sounds like one of these sort of pure bred entrepreneur types, you know?

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker3: He can’t stand still. Yeah. Does any of that rubbed off on you? Do you feel like you’ve got a bit of that in you as well?

Speaker1: Maybe. But I’m not to the point of opening a business on my own. I don’t think I’m there yet, but I would never exclude that. So we’ll see.

Speaker3: So when you when you watch someone operate, you learn by sort of by osmosis in a way. Right. Like it’s it’s a bit like sitting on the kitchen [00:06:00] table watching your mum cooking. Yeah. She’s not necessarily teaching you.

Speaker1: But you see things.

Speaker3: You see things, you learn things you learn.

Speaker1: By watching. Yeah.

Speaker3: What did you absorb from your dad? Like? Is it the way he treats people. What is it. Well he’s.

Speaker1: Very straightforward. He’s very he’s very good at math. So he can do. He can.

Speaker3: He’s good with the numbers.

Speaker1: He’s very good with the numbers. Exactly. So he knows exactly if like because I once said, oh, I would like to open this type of business. So [00:06:30] basically it’s not very popular here in the UK, but in Romania it is. It’s called like you go to a place you put like electrodes on yourself and you do small movements. So it’s like an intense gym session linked to a machine. It’s called X body. There here, not very popular again. So I wanted that. But the machines is very expensive. And I said and he asked me a few questions like how much is going to be a session, how much you’re going to pay the trainer, how much [00:07:00] that and that. And that is like, that’s not a good business. Stop. He had the instinct in a in a second. Yeah. So are you going.

Speaker3: To open that in Romania or here.

Speaker1: In Romania? I wanted to do that in Romania. That was I was still in uni. I was thinking to do that a little bit to get, I don’t know, just to, to have something like a passive income coming and maybe he’s.

Speaker3: Definitely got the bug that means.

Speaker1: Yeah, well I do maybe, I don’t know, I’m still young, so I have time. [00:07:30]

Speaker3: Yeah. But for someone to think like that in university, in university, I wasn’t thinking at all about starting businesses. I was busy enjoying myself.

Speaker1: Why not?

Speaker3: Well, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, what I’m saying is it’s in you that you weren’t thinking like that. Wow.

Speaker1: I’ve never thought about it, but, yeah, that would be good. I hope it is so.

Speaker3: Okay. Where did you study?

Speaker1: So I studied in Bucharest at the. Not the private university. The state one is called University Carol Davila. It’s supposed [00:08:00] to be one of the best universities in Romania. So. And it was quite a close one. And it’s in the capital of the city. So it would have been like a good fun in uni. Is it is.

Speaker3: It, is it very competitive to get in to dentistry.

Speaker1: Used to, used to be when I applied. Yes and no. So you need to pass the exam. The exam in school. Yeah. So you finish high school which is you finish it at 18. Yeah. Right. So it’s like after college [00:08:30] here. Yeah. You’re 18. It doesn’t matter what you did before. If you want to go to dental school you just need to pass the exam. One the exam is very simple. You have 100 questions multiple choice choice. And you have two subjects biology. Well anatomy. And it’s either chemistry either physics. I chose physics because chemistry involved a lot of chemicals. No. Yes. But also involved a lot of things to remember that you would probably forget. [00:09:00] And also you needed to do difficult math like 2.056 multiple 5.021 and without a calculator or anything.

Speaker3: 5.13 yes.

Speaker1: Exactly. But with physics was very simple. It was more logic. It was it was more obvious. So I chose that. It was very it was simpler. It was less to to study as well, whatever reason. But the biology was the like [00:09:30] the anatomy, it was the biggest subject. So whatever you get, whatever grade you get at the end is just going to be your entrance point. So you need to pass 50. So you need to do better than 50 points. But the first 140 places would be would not pay anything, so it couldn’t be the universe. The first year of uni is going to be free. So I got 89 and I got a free spot. Oh, nice. Yeah. So every year, negative marking. [00:10:00]

Speaker3: You know what I mean by that.

Speaker1: No.

Speaker3: So here are now exams in dental school. It’s multiple choice. Yeah. If you get it wrong you get minus one.

Speaker1: No it was just simple like you get right plus 1 or 0. Yeah. We had that during uni.

Speaker3: Oh you did. Yeah. Yeah. So you know about that. All right. So then you got in.

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: And when you got there what were your impressions or what were you like as a dental student. Well top of your class or not I’ve.

Speaker1: No. So I always [00:10:30] been the top of my class until I was in high school, I was probably one of the best of the best. And then I kind of tried to relax a little bit. When high school, I wanted to have a little bit of fun, but I kept my grades quite high. When I went to uni, I had a shock because the volume of study was completely different, like what I needed to learn in a semester. I needed to learn there in a week, and I really went on top of it. Like first semester, I really dedicated my time and I [00:11:00] really like I had good grades. I wasn’t like, we don’t have A’s and B’s, we have 1 to 10. Yes. So I wasn’t maybe ten, ten, ten, ten in a line, but I had above eight. So I had good grades. So that was good. The first semester was quite hard, but then the second semester I kind of got the gist of the uni, so I was quite comfortable and I started to. I wanted to enjoy the uni life a little bit more. So I found myself that at the end of the second semester I just failed a few exams, [00:11:30] most of them because I didn’t go. Now because I didn’t study.

Speaker3: The first time. You’d ever failed anything in your life, right?

Speaker1: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So in Romania, in dental school, if you don’t manage to pass one exam, it doesn’t matter. You just need to repeat the whole year with all the subjects. So for failing.

Speaker3: One exam, for.

Speaker1: Failing one exam you have a few times you a few chances. So I managed to pass all that. And then I woke up. I was like, right, I’m not going to fail my career. For some parting, I did some [00:12:00] parting. It’s all good. I’m happy. Let’s concentrate on what is important. So I started to be on top of the things. What was.

Speaker3: The years? Which years were you in university?

Speaker1: So you do six years of university? Was it was the year starting with year two? Yeah.

Speaker3: But which year? Which year was it 20.

Speaker1: Oh, right. 2012.

Speaker3: You started.

Speaker1: I started in 2011. 2000. Yeah. 2012 was the second year when I and your.

Speaker3: System in Romania, the first 3 or 4 years [00:12:30] are very like general medical, right?

Speaker1: Yes. So first three years is mainly general medicine. You have all the modules dermatology, endocrinology, all of that. You have a bit about teeth. Like basically let’s count the teeth anatomy and how they look like what how many cusps and nothing important. But it’s mainly general dentistry. So you have the flexibility of if you want to swap in year four, you can just go and carry on and move to general medicine and you just carry on and become a doctor.

Speaker3: So you literally having the same [00:13:00] classes as the medical school.

Speaker1: More or less. It’s not that important anyway. So they don’t they don’t question if you want to move in year five you would be a year four. Yeah, yeah. So you need to go back.

Speaker3: Yeah. So then which year is it that you see your first patient year four.

Speaker1: Well that’s an interesting story. We first patient as a Dental. Yeah. Yeah. So well that’s what I thought because in the past what I thought about the universities that I’ll finish uni and I’ll know what to do with the patient. That was [00:13:30] a big lie. No. When I first started in year four, you’re supposed to start dealing with patients I’ve never touched. A patient in uni.

Speaker3: Seems late to start with patients in year four five year.

Speaker1: Course. I’ve never touched a patient during six years. I’ve never done work on a patient at all. At all. Well, because, well, it’s considered that most of our professors and everything were too scared about the the possible competition. So they just stopped [00:14:00] the work. So in the past it used to be free for the patients and then they started to put charges. Yeah. And there were not enough patients for us and for the people that were specialising in something. So they would get the patients and also all the chairs they had, most of them would have a room with 20 dental chairs, but only two of them were working, so there was no space.

Speaker3: So you qualified without doing much dentistry at all?

Speaker1: Well, I did on my own. I took care of myself [00:14:30] basically. So I went to school in year two. As I said, I started to concentrate on on the studying. But in year four you start to do dentistry. So I realised that we have a lot of subjects that. It don’t really matter, and they don’t deserve my time. So I can concentrate on what I know I’m going to use and I’m going to train myself on my own. So apart from the usual with subjects and everything, you have another exam in the summer and sorry, in autumn in September, which is not [00:15:00] that you fail something else, it’s just a different exam. So it’s like your practical exam. So you’re supposed to finish uni and then go and do shadow. Shadow. Someone wherever you want is supposed to be a specialist or like a fellow specialist, and you would learn whatever, and you go to the exam and answer all the questions and you pass the exam. That’s an easy exam. Everyone kind of passes that one. Yeah, but I did some shadowing like a month every summer or two months. Didn’t [00:15:30] really get much of that. I was just tired. And yeah, because in the first 2 or 3 years you don’t do any dentistry. You don’t know what the dentist is doing. No one has the time to explain to you. And. Yeah, but, um, I just took care of myself and basically I applied to be a dental nurse. So I went and worked in a dental practice as a well as a whatever. I was a dental nurse. I was a manager, I was the cleaner, I was everything, I was scrubbing the floors and I was driving [00:16:00] a more expensive car than the owner, you know. But it’s funny, you know, I did everything I needed.

Speaker3: To do in the Third World. I mean, I don’t know if you can call Romania Third World, but in the third World. Yeah. I mean, I’m from Iran. So, you know, in the third World, there’s many situations where you have to take it into your own hands. Yeah. Like, I don’t know, I’m thinking of family member goes to hospital, but the family make a massive difference to that care of that patient in hospital, obviously, because, you know, there’s not enough nurses [00:16:30] or not enough doctors. And so you might.

Speaker1: Get the, the, the single room and you might even get a toilet there or a clean room.

Speaker3: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker3: And many other situations like that where you have to take it into your own hands in the third world, that’s what. Yeah. So okay. Where was your first proper job?

Speaker1: Proper job as a dentist. As a dentist. Right. It was. It was in the UK. Oh really? The proper one. It was in the UK. So I’ve worked in Romania as a dental nurse. [00:17:00] I worked as a dentist as well, but I’ve never been paid for it. So when I finished university, I got a job in my hometown for a very important guy in Romania. Gdc is is not one entity, it’s one entity, but it’s split in regions. So I got a job for the president of the GDC for that region. So it was really good because I could do everything I wanted as long as he was happy with me doing that, and [00:17:30] he was close to retirement and he didn’t want to work. So he.

Speaker3: Was it your region?

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah. It was.

Speaker3: Did you know him because he knew your dad and that sort of thing?

Speaker1: I no, I actually no, I know him because my mother’s brother used to be his postman.

Speaker3: That’s even better.

Speaker4: It’s even better.

Speaker1: But he’s a lovely guy. He’s a he’s a surgeon, actually, he’s a surgeon. But he was having a general dental practice there, and he was doing a lot of things.

Speaker3: And what was he doing? Implants.

Speaker4: The whole he was doing everything.

Speaker1: He was doing the small surgeries as well. Quite [00:18:00] a lot of oral surgery impacted wisdom teeth. Removal, all the disgusting stuff. Oh love that. Implants as well obviously. But then fillings and cleans and he was doing everything. But obviously because I was there he was trying to pass that more towards me. I actually did two cases, two implant cases with him and I did them.

Speaker4: Wow. Yeah, that learning.

Speaker3: On the job.

Speaker4: But if I tell.

Speaker1: You how I did them, you know. No, no it was impeccable. [00:18:30]

Speaker4: Impeccable.

Speaker1: So the second case, it was one of his friends. But the first case, I don’t think she knows I did the implant.

Speaker4: Oh, really?

Speaker1: Because he put something on her, but she was absolutely fine. And he was my nurse, so we worked together very well in the implant. It’s beautifully placed. It was that exact ideal case.

Speaker3: So look, I’ve got an uncle who’s a dentist or who was a dentist in Iran. He went he ended up in Canada. But while I was in first year dental student, I [00:19:00] visited and he took me to the state clinic. You know where the the people queue up to have teeth taken out, right? You know, the pain clinic if you like. But basically it was an extraction.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker3: And I went there for two days. Yeah. And in two days I took out more teeth than the rest of my dental course put together. Yeah. And he basically showed me what to do. I’d never taken a tooth out. Yeah. And he was just like, keep pushing. It’s [00:19:30] interesting because. Because then I learnt that thing. Yeah. And it’s amazing how much you can learn more. Yeah.

Speaker4: Doing had a had.

Speaker1: A similar job like that. Yes because I worked for him. So he’s. I was like, I want to have more patience. It’s like in Romania you get a lot of experience if you go to the countryside and which is like a pain clinic. Yeah. So you just go there one on one morning a week. People already wait for you. So he put me in contact with the person that owned that practice. [00:20:00] He just wanted to have a cigarette or like a hundred and coffees. And I was doing everything. But he gave me a nurse, which was great. So I was going there and I worked until I finished the patients once a week. And it was brilliant.

Speaker3: I remember this, my uncle going out into the street, giving blocks and infiltrations to the queue in.

Speaker4: The street, just in the street to get them ready.

Speaker3: Get them ready so that by [00:20:30] the time they. Yeah.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Speaker3: So tell me about the move. Number one. You told me off Mike that, you know what you just told me now, your dad was an established guy. You you could have stayed there, opened your clinic. You knew loads of people. Yeah. Had a very good life there. Yeah, but you chose to move here.

Speaker1: Think about when I finished uni, we finished 300 from [00:21:00] that uni. There was another unit. Students, dentist, new dentists, 300.

Speaker3: Yeah.

Speaker4: Big year.

Speaker1: No, normally. Yeah. Another. You name the private one probably had another 200 and that was just in Bucharest. And there’s so many other dental schools everywhere in the country.

Speaker4: So there’s too many dentists.

Speaker1: Yeah, there’s too many dentists. And in Romania is very popular. You finish uni and then you need to become a specialist. But because everyone’s a specialist now they go for a second specialist, [00:21:30] they have to. Yeah. So it’s just and then they go for a PhD. But I swear to God they, most of them don’t have the clinical experience that they should for the amount of years they studied. So no thank you. And also being in uni and year four, five and six, I can’t speak for other universities, but I can speak for my year, for my personal experience. It’s not fair. You don’t get the grade fair, fair and square. It’s not fair. [00:22:00] Also, the material, the support material that you’re supposed to study and you’re going to be asked about is not the same. So if you know an older student, you might get the actual stuff. If not people.

Speaker4: Just we’re back.

Speaker3: To that same thing, aren’t we? Yeah. About having to take things into your own hands.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: So it’s not fair. You. I got a grade. I got a good grade once. Just because the professor in front of me was. It was a bit late, and she got a phone call, so. Yeah. Finished [00:22:30] nine by. I was good. You had the exams where if you, you need when you go to the exam, you need to buy the professor something to drink or something to eat. Right. But we have this specific professor that she actually become the dean at some point, that she couldn’t drink normal water. It needed to be imported Evian water. Otherwise. Aristocrat, I don’t know. And then macarons. Like she had a thing for French. Yeah. So she wanted [00:23:00] French dessert. French was everything. So.

Speaker3: So we’re getting to the crux of the matter is that inherent sort of corruption of another third world country, right? Yeah. And it’s.

Speaker4: Not fair.

Speaker3: It’s not fair. Right. And you said we we spoke about that off mic as well. But I’ve got friends who love it.

Speaker4: Oh yeah.

Speaker1: Because you, you bend the rules however you want.

Speaker3: Yeah. And also like the immediate, you know like my friend was I went to Iran the last thing I wanted to have anything [00:23:30] to do with police. Right. I did not want to meet a policeman. Right. I didn’t want to have any questions to answer. And my friend was telling me, listen, the problem. Right? Anything happens with the police, just give us some money all over. Yeah. And I was like, well, that’s terrible. What if that’s the guy who can’t afford it or whatever? Yeah.

Speaker4: What if you.

Speaker1: Give them the wrong amount and it’s too less?

Speaker4: But he was saying get upset.

Speaker3: He was saying he likes it because it means the thing is over. Then. Whereas if he was in London, he’d have to then go to court. And. Yeah, so so.

Speaker4: I like it here.

Speaker1: Because it’s fair and [00:24:00] square. It’s more fair and square for everyone. Yes. And it’s the same procedure everyone goes through. Yes, of course you get your shortcuts here as well if.

Speaker4: You but we get to this.

Speaker3: Question then. Right. And know it’s kind of a selfish way of thinking about it. You could have thrived in Romania. You could have.

Speaker4: I could have, yeah, I could have had the easy life, had the.

Speaker3: Means to pay whoever you needed to. Yeah, you had the connections, and yet you chose to go live [00:24:30] in Birmingham and find a job, you know, the first place you could, I guess. What was that? Why leave? Because. Because you inherently don’t like corruption. Is that is that what you’re saying? That.

Speaker1: Is as well. Yes. And also because I want to do things on my own. I want to prove myself, I want to. Why? Just because I know I can and I don’t need anyone to. Is it is it that?

Speaker3: Is it that somewhere along the line any anything you achieve? People said, oh yeah, she’s got a rich dad or like that you [00:25:00] didn’t get.

Speaker4: The credit did.

Speaker1: Came across a few things like this. Yes. Like, oh yeah. You got that because of your parents or you got like, do you even know how to do that? Or you look at you, you’re too young. You’re you’re a girl. What, like. No. And here my. Yes, that’s quite interesting. So one of the first patients that I’ve ever had in the UK told me that I was impressed. Well, I know they do this all the time, but that was for me was the first he said, well, what [00:25:30] would you do in my case? Because like, I don’t, I don’t know. You are the expert. They just come to you. You are a dentist. They assume you’re the best. They don’t look. They know their dentist is well prepared. It’s there in that job because they know what they’re doing.

Speaker4: They don’t question it. Yes.

Speaker1: And the patients in Romania, Romanian patients are a nightmare, especially if they’re Romanian patients. In Romania, they’re a nightmare. They don’t come for recalls. They don’t care about prevention. They don’t trust [00:26:00] you. And I actually really, really hate to sell myself in front of someone for half an hour or an hour. And in the end, well, I’m going to go to the guy that I know and I know I can do a better job. They were going for a clean to the max tax guy that I was working with. He wasn’t even doing it very. I would have taken an hour to airflow and everything sparkling clean, but they would go to him because he’s [00:26:30] a max. So that’s the Romanian patient is they go for the max box for the filling. No, that’s not right.

Speaker3: It makes me think of back home that I remember once I had a tummy ache or something. They brought a doctor in. Honestly, the guy was 85. Yeah, like he was old.

Speaker1: He knew what he was doing.

Speaker3: Yeah, but this is the thing. Like my my training told me this guy’s out of date because he’s 85, and I kind of in my pain. I brought it up with my grandmother. I said, who’s this guy? He’s an old guy. She said, exactly. You know, he’s [00:27:00] an old guy. That’s what you want, someone with experience to be old.

Speaker1: And the guy.

Speaker4: Especially if you’re.

Speaker1: Young and the lady is just not a bad combination.

Speaker3: So explain to me, when you got to England, you landed in London?

Speaker4: Yes.

Speaker1: And I landed in Birmingham, actually.

Speaker4: Why? Because my my.

Speaker1: Partner was already.

Speaker4: Here. Oh, okay. Right. Okay. Okay. So.

Speaker1: Well, the process of coming here, well, back then, like, five years ago, was way easier than it is now because England, well, UK [00:27:30] was part of the EU, so I only I registered with the GTC within a month. I just need to pay a fee, do some documents, job done. But then the problem comes when you want to become when you want to get your performance number because everyone said it’s good to have it and I agree. Yeah. So you need to find a practice. You need to have find a job that has an available mentor for you. Yeah. So I went to job fairs like every year. They were always selling finish your university. Come back. [00:28:00] Then I was going again next year finish university. And then when I finished I was like, I finished, I’m here, let’s do this. And she said, okay, we have this big corporate that I know it’s serious. And they have like 600 practices or even more all over the country. So you have flexibility. So they might have the resources for you. So I said fine. And I wanted to be a corporate because an independent might have just shut down after a month or you don’t know where you go. It’s a it’s a different country. It’s a different world. You can’t trust someone overseas. So I chose the corporate. [00:28:30] I had an online no, I had a phone interview last good. And then they said, fine, let’s start the process. You need to apply for performance number because you have a job now. Well, they found me a job in Bristol and yeah. So where I was working in Romania, I had the understanding with the owner that whenever I need to leave to the UK to do documents or something, I just go, so he doesn’t say anything. So that was good. So I had, I was working there, but when I needed to leave I just [00:29:00] needed I would have just gone. So yeah, just came to the UK, landed in Birmingham, got questioned at the airport like, yeah, what are you doing here? Because I only had one way ticket. I’ve never been questioned before.

Speaker4: Have you. No, no.

Speaker1: They asked me like was like, do you have a job? It’s like, yes, I do have a job. Like what do you do? Dentist okay. We need you here. Welcome. That was nice. And then. Yeah, I moved to Bristol, so [00:29:30] my partner was living in Birmingham and I just moved to Bristol because I’ve had the job in Bristol with a mentor available and everything, and my start was very rocky. It was a lot of mix ups and, but. In the end, I made it happen because I again actually took the matters in my own hand and called the area manager and discussed because they gave me a job, and then they said, oh, the position is not available anymore. I was like, are you kidding me? I just rented an apartment, paid three months in advance, bought a car. I’m ready. [00:30:00] You need to be ready for me because I came from Romania. Yeah, it’s far away. So it happened in the end. So it was good.

Speaker3: So then you were reflections on the difference between being a dentist here and being a dentist there. What was your initial reflection? Was it was it as you would expect it as you were expecting it to be? I mean, look, I think all of us are surprised when we go into to general practice, even even if you come from here. Yeah. First job [00:30:30] I did. Yeah. Whatever they call it. Yeah. I couldn’t believe that this was the practice that I was working in. Like, you know, in terms of and by the way, great guy. I’m still in touch with the guy. Yeah. But nonetheless, it was an NHS practice and the timings for the appointments, you know, five minute, ten minute exam. I couldn’t believe it. Could not believe it. What were your reflections.

Speaker1: So I knew all that from the beginning.

Speaker4: I knew, I.

Speaker1: Knew, yeah I did do my research properly, [00:31:00] so I knew it’s short time for any exam. I knew NHS needs to be quick, quick, quick, quick, quick and money wise to be worth it. You need to be thorough. You’re not allowed any mistakes.

Speaker4: Do you know about the legal nightmare?

Speaker3: Yeah.

Speaker4: Yes, I was intrigued.

Speaker3: Told you all that.

Speaker4: Well, was.

Speaker3: There, was there an induction where they.

Speaker1: Had an induction as well, but they didn’t tell you that at.

Speaker4: The induction.

Speaker1: They only tell you band woman to band three. You claim like that and this is the system you just click. [00:31:30]

Speaker4: On complete.

Speaker3: Research taking you to the question of British dentists sued a lot.

Speaker1: It was the company that I applied through like the recruitment company was someone from my dentist. Actually, that’s the company that I got the job with. It was someone from their recruiting department that talked with me through a lot. And then. I did speak with someone that was already working in the UK, so he told me a few [00:32:00] things I didn’t really understand at that point. But after I talked with the recruiting lady, she made me understand what was that about? And I did read a lot, and I read a lot of forums, and I knew the I knew I knew everything in Romania. I don’t have any litigation. It’s like, well, you have some, but.

Speaker4: Have you.

Speaker3: Been to the UK before that?

Speaker4: No, it was.

Speaker3: Your first time.

Speaker1: It was the. Well, yeah, it was the well it’s been once like for a London like three days but I knew I’m going to come here. So. [00:32:30] No not properly.

Speaker3: No Bristol great town I love Bristol.

Speaker4: Bristol is lovely. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker3: So all right move on. Well what happened next.

Speaker1: Right. So I started my first day was. Yeah. So the first practice I started it was in Avonmouth in Bristol. Small practice. Three Romanian dentists, including me.

Speaker4: Really? Yeah. And six nurses.

Speaker1: And. Yeah, all British nurses. Yeah. Yeah, it was okay. It was. It wasn’t very busy. So [00:33:00] the room, the surgery I was put in, it was the it was the storage room.

Speaker4: Right.

Speaker1: So they opened that surgery because I complained to the area manager that they made my contract disappear. And I came all this way like it needs to happen. And he went to the practice, said, this room is a surgery. Clear it up. We have a new dentist job done. So the practice didn’t have as many. It wasn’t that busy for three [00:33:30] dentists at a time. It was very busy for two dentists at a time. So I had more time with each patient. So I wasn’t having like five minutes and ten minutes per appointments. Yeah, it took me a while to understand when to stop dealing with a patient because I was on and on and on, and let’s do some more and more. I didn’t I didn’t know when to stop, but I got that after a week or two. I was simple. I was very slow at the beginning, didn’t understand how to operate the computer. We don’t have. In Romania [00:34:00] where I work we didn’t have a digital is nothing. It’s the nurse, right? Filling up a research done good. Not.

Speaker3: Not like the good old days.

Speaker4: Yes. Simple.

Speaker1: Yeah. But here, like I knew about the notes, I was ready. I had templates already. I’m very organised. I know exactly what I’m going to expect. I had templates for any treatment possible. I requested shadowing before two weeks so I knew how things go. I looked around the practice. I know I knew everything. I called the labs [00:34:30] to speak with them just to understand how how it works.

Speaker4: Before you. English.

Speaker3: Was it quite.

Speaker4: Good? Actually, I.

Speaker1: Wanted to say that. No, no, my my English is horrible. Like I make myself understand, but it’s not great. Do you.

Speaker3: Speak French?

Speaker4: No, I wish Spanish.

Speaker1: I understand.

Speaker4: Spanish. A lot of.

Speaker3: Romanians speak a lot of languages, don’t they?

Speaker1: Well, we can speak. Yeah, we’re good with languages.

Speaker4: Yeah, because it’s.

Speaker3: Kind of a Roman language itself, right?

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: So I can understand a lot of Spanish. I understand a bit of Italian, but because I don’t speak them, [00:35:00] I just, I can’t. No, I don’t speak Spanish. No, but I understand a bit. Yeah. Prior to coming to the UK, I actually started my own dictionary, medical terms from Romanian to English. So I was part of a lot of Facebook forums, a lot of any forums, any groups, any speciality dentistry, speciality things. I was part of them and they were posting and writing in, in English. So I was like, oh, Dental court, right. [00:35:30] Like a court. Oh, this is what is court. So I was writing in my so I had the dictionary already. I knew the terms before because I prepare myself.

Speaker4: Yeah. So I mean this.

Speaker3: This picture you’re drawing of this sort of determination and ambition. Yeah, I can see. And by the way of what I saw that day, you know. And you what do you think it comes from? What’s the origin of that?

Speaker4: I’ve always.

Speaker1: Been competitive, I don’t know, I like to.

Speaker4: To do more.

Speaker3: Only child. It’s a bit weird because normally competition [00:36:00] happens a lot between children. Well, tell me about only child reflections here, because I speak to some only children and they talk about how lonely they were and. Oh no, this. No. And then I speak to other.

Speaker4: It’s more for me. It’s okay. I speak to.

Speaker3: Other only children. They say something like they they ended up in adult conversations that other children didn’t because the children were playing together. What are your reflections about only child? Would you have an only child, for instance, or not?

Speaker4: Um, if you were thinking.

Speaker1: About having children. But if I were one, I think [00:36:30] is more than enough.

Speaker4: Really? Yeah. So you didn’t suffer.

Speaker3: With the only child syndrome?

Speaker1: No, no, no, no, not at all. No. I had a very good friend. She was living right across the street. So she was an only child. We were always together. It was fine. We go to school. We have a lot of kids around you. You go home, you like at the end of the day, it’s if you’re the only child, whatever. Sources that family has.

Speaker4: It’s all a.

Speaker1: Revolving around you. You get the first bit of everything, right.

Speaker4: But also.

Speaker3: The hopes [00:37:00] and fears and expectations. Oh yeah, Mount up right.

Speaker4: Obviously.

Speaker1: So it wasn’t a nine right? When I needed an A or an A plus here. A nine was an unacceptable. It was no.

Speaker4: In your house. Yeah.

Speaker1: No no they always wanted more like if I would bring a nine home as like right. So who got the ten. Why didn’t why didn’t you get the ten? Like. Well it was very difficult. It was like. Well was it. You could have done more.

Speaker3: Lisa, [00:37:30] do you think that that’s going to just translate straight into I know you don’t know if you’re going to have kids, but is that is that going to be you with your kids as well then.

Speaker4: Now if I would.

Speaker1: If I’ll have kids or kid child. Well, I’m going to give them a little bit more freedom, probably into choices wise. I’m going to smartly try to guide them towards what I think is best, but obviously they will do the last choice. They will have the last choice. But yeah, I would, you know, if I [00:38:00] always picture myself if I would ever have a child. He’s going to go to Harvard.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: So no pressure.

Speaker3: No, I hear you, I hear you. It’s weird because, you know, when you become a parent, these sort of things start, start happening to you, where you start thinking, hey, why not?

Speaker4: What? I would.

Speaker1: Like if I have a child, I would like the.

Speaker4: Him.

Speaker1: Or she to actually go to university abroad. Well, I’m already abroad, right.

Speaker4: So even if you continue that. Yeah.

Speaker3: So the question I’m really asking though is, you know, [00:38:30] you know, you said your your parents said doctor lawyer or failure. Right.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: If that just continues into the next generation and the next generation, there’ll be no film makers, there’ll be no musicians, there’ll be no. And the reason I’m talking about it is because, you know, I’m a first generation migrant, right? So my parents moved here. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn’t born here. Yeah. And so with us, with my group, everyone was maths, physics, chemistry, doctor, [00:39:00] engineer. But then what I would hope is the next generation to be.

Speaker4: More creative.

Speaker3: Be more creative, to have more things going on to, you know, it’s not limited by that. And we know these days with ChatGPT and all that stuff, right? That education isn’t what it used to be.

Speaker4: No, it’s that’s.

Speaker1: Where we’re heading anyway. Like now being like, know social media anything. It’s a job.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: You don’t learn that. You know, 50 years ago. No. [00:39:30] 20 years ago you would have never even imagined that like, marketing is super important. Yeah. It’s not something like nothingness or.

Speaker4: You know what I mean about.

Speaker3: Breaking that spell.

Speaker1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it depends. If you can excel, it doesn’t matter. On what? If you want to be a dancer, be a great dancer, right? Go to Juilliard, be a great dancer or anywhere else. But be good. Be out there and enjoy what you’re doing. And I think part of the education is very important [00:40:00] to try a little bit of everything, try to learn a bit more from all the subjects, because that builds your general knowledge, which is important. It’s good to go to, I don’t know, anywhere you go have a conversation you can keep up with the an important of politics, I don’t know. I would never be able to talk about politics because I have no clue about no, I’m not following politics. I’m bad at that. So no.

Speaker3: Do you have an inherent right wing or left wing swing?

Speaker4: What [00:40:30] do you mean?

Speaker3: So are you inherently more socialist or more business life?

Speaker1: Have no.

Speaker4: Opinion of.

Speaker3: I’ve got a feeling you’re more on the right wing side. Entrepreneur, dad.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: All right, fair enough. So let’s talk about how did it go to Birmingham from from Bristol. Did you just ask the company can I move?

Speaker1: Yes, yes, mainly so pandemic started. I did like it, to be honest. At the beginning I needed [00:41:00] a break. I was very tired. That practice I was working, it was quite busy and I, I loved it, it was a lovely practice. My colleagues were amazing. I loved every second of it, but it was very busy and like I remember I was leaving with a massive headache every single day and I started to have back pains as well. That’s when I bought my first loops as well. But pandemic started and everything shut down and then my partner was sent home. He could just work from home and [00:41:30] I said, well, just come to Bristol because I’m still need to go to the practice. So come here. And I had the nicer apartment anyway, and we had the sea view, and that helped a lot with our mental during pandemic because we were in proper, we were in proper lockdown. I did have my social bit because I was still going to the practice now and then like once or twice a week, and then we started to work a little bit more and more and then just back to normal. But he had a long, long period of working from home and he hated every second [00:42:00] of it. So he moved to Bristol. But then when things got back to normal, we decided on whoever gets the job first in the other city. We’ll just move there. And I just spoke with a, I think it was a business manager from my dentist and I said, look, no one knows I want to move, but is there any chances you can put me in contact with someone from Birmingham? And then the other manager from West Midlands called me and she was like, [00:42:30] yeah, we have this place there, would you like to join? I’m like, yeah, can I give my notice? Yeah, fine. Job done. That was it. It was simple. And also my partner’s an engineer, so it’s better for an engineer too. It’s more opportunities for an engineer in a in West Midlands specifically.

Speaker4: Actually because of the engineering. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker3: So so I’m interested in what you’re saying about the pandemic and the break you got in the pandemic, because the number of people who say that.

Speaker4: Oh, I loved it.

Speaker3: I mean, it’s almost the majority of people you [00:43:00] speak to.

Speaker1: I felt bad by trying like I was thinking.

Speaker4: Oh, just.

Speaker1: Just another month, please.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker3: Me too, me too. But I’m quite interested in the idea that, you know, we all need a break the whole time, right? We don’t realise it, you know, because every single person you talk to who didn’t have someone get ill during the pandemic, you know, obviously the obvious parts, right? Yeah. The business didn’t go under. Everyone says, I really enjoyed that break. It was.

Speaker4: Quiet.

Speaker3: Yeah, well, people, you know, thought about their lives. For instance, our business, the majority [00:43:30] of our people now work from home, whereas before, before if someone said, oh, can I have an. Are off to go see the would be a bit shaky now. People work from home completely. And and you know that question of what are we carrying right now. Yeah. What stress are we carrying right now that we’re not really aware of? Because we’re just running. Yeah. The whole time.

Speaker1: Well, I’m. Yeah. My week is very much concentrated around work. So I work five days a week. So.

Speaker4: Have [00:44:00] you got the.

Speaker3: Option to work four days a week?

Speaker1: I have the option of not working if I want, I just quit.

Speaker4: But yeah.

Speaker1: I can drop a day.

Speaker3: Obviously recommend it.

Speaker1: You don’t want to do it now. I feel like I can’t. You really recommend it? Yeah, I think you see, I work four days in my dentist where I’m very comfortable and comfortable in the sense that I’m comfortable enough to try new things. I can do whatever I want, like dentist who can [00:44:30] improvise. I know I have the stuff because I buy a lot of things for myself, because instead of waiting for that to come through and I just buy them and I have, I could have a day off and somehow I couldn’t leave it off. So I just got another job and I work in a private independent practice as well. There’s a lot of opportunities, but it’s a very long schedule as well. Like I work, I leave at seven eight.

Speaker3: I really recommend that everyone works four days as a dentist, because I feel.

Speaker4: Like it’s not the time yet.

Speaker3: Dentistry is really [00:45:00] hard work. Yeah. Number one, number two, it doesn’t affect earnings at all. Yeah, it’s almost well documented that you earn the same on four days as you do in five days. How come. Because you’re just so much fresher. You’re so much more.

Speaker4: You work the faster.

Speaker3: You work faster you talk better. And all of that, plus your treatment plan better because you’ve got that extra day. But I can 100% guarantee you there would be no enlightened smiles if I was working five days a week. Oh yeah, that’s because I was working [00:45:30] four days a week as a dentist. On that fifth day, I was plotting. In my case, I was plotting to open a whitening something. Yeah, yeah, but in whatever it is in your case. Yeah, that that fifth day, it just gets in the way. And, you know, there’s plenty of people who work six days. No huge.

Speaker4: Error.

Speaker1: I was asked so many times about the Saturday and I always said, no, I’m all I’m going to stick with this. No. And it is a mistake. Yeah. It’s too much.

Speaker4: I mean, I don’t know.

Speaker3: You can judge for everyone because there’s probably someone listening to this who works six [00:46:00] days a week and there’s happy good.

Speaker4: I know someone.

Speaker1: That works seven days.

Speaker4: A week. Oh, my God, it’s fine.

Speaker1: It’s okay. It’s whatever. You feel comfortable, but I feel like five days a week. I’m focussed on the work and when I come from work, I just want to relax. I don’t want to do anything else apart from whatever related to work, dinner and go to bed. But during the weekend, I want that to be either just chilling time or going out or something. Just forget about.

Speaker4: Work. Tell me about your.

Speaker3: Clinical progress [00:46:30] from okay, you weren’t very experienced. You started to get some experience. But then when I, when I sort of got in touch with you, you know, you’re doing Invisalign, you’re doing loads of composite bonding. You’re doing loads of things. Yeah. So at what rate did you take these on? Did you have a plan that, you know, you’re going to learn all these things and not necessarily.

Speaker1: So at the beginning root canals were my nightmares right.

Speaker4: Like all of us.

Speaker1: But now I love it. [00:47:00] I get referrals like I relax. No, I just did a lot. Did it I just did it. Yeah. I used to have very similar to a panic attack before I was starting. So putting the rubber down and then I needed to count to ten, do some breathing exercises. I’m not joking and then start the treatment. But now that is relaxing for me. Like when I have a root canal is like, oh okay, I can relax now for an hour and a half. I’m just me and myself. It’s all job. I sing, I am, yeah, [00:47:30] I tell the patient to ignore me. And so is that your favourite treatment? No, no not necessarily. I like composite and I like posterior composite a lot. I do a lot of anterior cosmetic work and everything, but posterior composite is just something about building by custom.

Speaker4: Oh, it’s just.

Speaker3: Like biomimetic type.

Speaker1: And I’m really good at it. And I can make mistakes. If I make a mistake, it just doesn’t look very good. That’s what I’m talking [00:48:00] about. Like mistakes. Like aesthetic mistakes. It doesn’t count. No one cares. No one sees it. It’s lovely. It’s all about the functionality and the posterior composites. And I really, really enjoy those. But I like everything I do. I’m not a fan of crowns. I do crowns and veneers and everything. It’s just I’m not a fan of things that I need to depend on. Other people like the lab. Okay, so if I do it myself, if I do a composite veneer, I know it works. I know [00:48:30] what I do, I have full control. Yeah, I have full I like to have full control.

Speaker4: I can see that.

Speaker3: See I’m the opposite, right? For me, if I’m doing something by myself, I know some aspect of it is going to drop, but I.

Speaker1: Can fix it. There’s not a problem.

Speaker4: Personally, I just can’t fix it.

Speaker3: I need partners, right? Like I can imagine you. Yeah. If you start your own business, you can do it by yourself. You’re not going to have a partner.

Speaker4: No, I will.

Speaker1: I will need, I will, I need people, but.

Speaker4: Partners.

Speaker1: Partners.

Speaker4: Yeah, but we all need to.

Speaker3: Yeah, I need partners. [00:49:00]

Speaker4: Right? I need to.

Speaker3: Rely on people for the bits that I’m terrible at. Because I’m terrible at a lot of things.

Speaker4: You can’t get my get my trust.

Speaker3: Control freak person, right?

Speaker1: Maybe a little bit and without even noticing. But like, I trust I trust my nurses now. Like, after a long time, I do.

Speaker4: Trust the.

Speaker3: Relationship with your team. Were they your team that I saw at that event in my Dental? Yeah. You seem so, so friendly with your team.

Speaker4: Well, my.

Speaker1: Nurse, well, she’s the treatment coordinator, but she [00:49:30] used to be my nurse and she still works with me whenever she she can. She’s my best friend and my manager is a very, very close friend. She is my work mom. Like, we’re very close.

Speaker3: Okay, let me let me put this to you. Yeah. I was that dentist too. Yeah, I was that. Me and my nurse. Wonderful friends, I loved it. Yeah. When you become the boss, it is a different situation. It’s different.

Speaker4: Yeah. No, it’s not the.

Speaker3: Same in a way. In a way. It’s you and your nurse in the same team. And there’s management above you. Yeah. And you know, you treat her well and she treats you [00:50:00] well when you start a practice. Which is it in the plans or what.

Speaker4: Yeah. We’ll see.

Speaker3: Oh excellent.

Speaker4: So when you to that.

Speaker3: Relationship as a boss. Yeah. And a friend is a really hard one to pull off.

Speaker1: Well if I would start a business and she would be part of it, she would not be the nurse or I. Yeah, I would be the boss, obviously. Well now she’s she’s pretty good. I know what you mean. I understand, but you never know until you try. Yeah. So if it works, it works. If not, just split it there, remain friends or just break the other one. [00:50:30] It’s whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker3: I mean, when we’re when we’re associates, it’s there’s always this issue of control. Yeah, a lot of people open their own practice because. Because of control, not necessarily because of money. Yeah. And it ends up being that you want to do things your way.

Speaker4: Well, yes.

Speaker1: But it depends. Even as an associate you can have control.

Speaker3: Well, not full control.

Speaker1: Not full, never full. But. Well, when whenever they don’t [00:51:00] want to do what I ask, which is? Go and buy it.

Speaker3: For the sake of the argument. I want amazing coffee in the in the waiting room. Right. You can’t do that in my dentist, can you? You can’t bring in amazing coffee.

Speaker4: You can bring.

Speaker1: The actual coffee, boil the.

Speaker4: Water and just mix it. You know what I mean?

Speaker3: Yeah, there are patient journey type stuff that they do.

Speaker1: No, they do respect everything you want to do.

Speaker4: I’ve been very impressed.

Speaker3: With my dentists. To tell you the truth.

Speaker4: You need to prove yourself. [00:51:30] Maybe it’s before your time.

Speaker3: Yeah, before your time. My dentist should have a quite a bad reputation as far as working for them. How? What it’s like working for them.

Speaker4: But now they’re changing a lot.

Speaker3: They turned that around. I come across dentists who say, I went to a my dentist, went to work at a my dentist from an independent. Yes, because it’s a better place to work, you know, where you stand and all of this.

Speaker4: You do know where you stand.

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: And it’s so impressive to see that, you know, [00:52:00] but, you know, you work in both.

Speaker4: Independent.

Speaker3: And corporate.

Speaker1: Full private and mixed and private, but mainly private for my, in my surgery. Yeah. In my practice.

Speaker3: What are the NHS patients. Do you sell private items to.

Speaker1: So I have my NHS list with patients that come for regular check-ups and everything and whatever it goes from the check-up like if they need a treatment, they have the option. 75% of my income comes from private, from new patients, full [00:52:30] private or from my NHS patient, which is fine because if your sound, you know how to brush, because I do insist a lot on prevention with my patient. I like do demos and I really insist on that. So once everything’s so getting better and better, they and also I have leaflets everywhere and I do mention casually like sometimes I do a long treatment and I speak with my nurse about Invisalign. It’s like, oh, do you do that? Okay. And then I have enlightened everywhere and whitening [00:53:00] is and I always give them they always leave with a leaflet with like, have you ever consider whitening? Just so you know, you are eligible for that because not everyone can.

Speaker4: It’s like, oh like that.

Speaker1: Yeah, well not everyone can have whitening straight away without other issues to consider.

Speaker3: Because I was going to ask you this question. You do a lot of whitening.

Speaker4: I do, yeah.

Speaker3: And it’s not a big surprise, is it? The people who do a lot of whitening talk about whitening a lot. Well it’s the simplest thing.

Speaker4: Yeah, but.

Speaker3: Loads of dentists have difficulty talking about whitening [00:53:30] because loads of dentists like to talk about needs rather than wants. Yeah, yeah. It’s easier. We tend to we tend to say if you don’t do this, that terrible thing will happen. Yeah. If you don’t do this, that terrible thing will happen. Whereas once the opposite, if you do do this, something brilliant is going to happen. Yeah. And we’re not really good. Most of us clinicians aren’t really good at saying that. Plus people have got this sort of embarrassing story where they don’t want the patient to think. They’re saying they’re ugly.

Speaker1: Don’t [00:54:00] say you’re ugly.

Speaker4: Yeah, I know.

Speaker3: How do you get around it? Why does it not bother you?

Speaker1: I do it so casually.

Speaker3: So like, this eligible thing is brilliant.

Speaker4: Yeah, I.

Speaker1: Do it casually, I.

Speaker4: Do I.

Speaker1: Mention composite bonding casually as well. Any chipped teeth? Or we can do bonding. Just. Just like if you ever consider we do that here, just let us know.

Speaker4: And then if.

Speaker1: They ask a second question, I give them a leaflet as well. And then we talk about finance and it’s all going there. [00:54:30] But you casually I always casually mention a few things and then there’s like, yeah, yeah that’s fine. They leave, they come back in six months, they don’t say anything. They come back again like a year later. It was like I was actually wanting to ask you about, you know, a year ago you mentioned that in that. Yes, you planned it and it’s it just comes it seems like it comes from them, but they I’m sure they, they thought about whites and why not?

Speaker3: Look, people are more interested in the colour of their teeth than everything else you talk [00:55:00] about.

Speaker1: And it can change so much. You think you want composite bonding, composite veneers. They’re like, what don’t you like about it? You. The shade is like, what about the shape? The shape is fine. So let’s do whitening. I’m saving you money.

Speaker4: Oh, okay. So when I.

Speaker3: Was a dentist, my view on whitening was if I didn’t bring it up, I was doing a disservice to the.

Speaker4: Patient.

Speaker1: That’s a good point. He as.

Speaker4: Well. Yeah.

Speaker3: And that way I’d had no problem. And the other thing was, every time I met someone outside the practice, I said, I’m a dentist. They would ask about whitening, but not that [00:55:30] many patients were asking about whitening. Yeah. And I used to think, well, there’s some sort of disconnect there. Yeah.

Speaker4: And might be a shame to.

Speaker3: Connecting it by in the UK people just do what they’re told in a dental practice. You know, they don’t necessarily come out and ask for something. Or if they do ask for it, I would class that as a red hot lead. They’re going to they’re going to take that thing if they ask for it. But most people ask for an examination and they let the dentist do the talking.

Speaker1: Also, some patients, for whatever reason, they think that their [00:56:00] routine, like, you know, the dentist, the dentist doesn’t do, so they choose to go or just Google like jokes, cosmetic plays completely. But that’s that’s wrong. They need to know we have the options. And I do like everything I do. Like you need a filling. I start from nothing to only. So I go through all NHS private, super superior private. I just give them so many options that they would definitely choose like a mid one anyway, so you get some private out of it. And it’s not [00:56:30] about the money, it’s about the it looks good and it lasts.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah yeah it lasts.

Speaker1: It just doesn’t come out.

Speaker3: So now clinically are you thinking about your sort of five year clinical plan. Are you thinking about going from single tooth to comprehensive. Like where where are you at in this in that.

Speaker4: I think I need to.

Speaker1: Go to comprehensive. So I’m not doing single teeth. So I’ve done ten [00:57:00] composite bonding at a time. I’ve done full mouth rehabilitation as well in the sense not with crowns, I’ve done it with dentures, slash composite bonding, well, root canals, whatever else. But that’s kind of it’s still full mouth rehabilitation from the.

Speaker3: Training sort of pathway perspective. Are you thinking maybe, you know for instance, spear and choice in the US.

Speaker4: No pathways never.

Speaker1: Considered that. [00:57:30]

Speaker4: You should.

Speaker3: Brilliant pathways expensive but but you know that treatment planning on the whole.

Speaker4: Mouth. Yeah.

Speaker3: Perfect. Someone like you who’s so keen. Yeah.

Speaker1: You do need to have where to apply it as well, because I’ve done a I’ve done a certificate in restorative and aesthetic dentistry.

Speaker4: Which one did you do Dominic.

Speaker1: Hustle.

Speaker3: Oh you serve. Yeah.

Speaker1: Yeah. And I was very impressed. I was very very, very good. And I was very [00:58:00] impressed by the fact that he was there with us. 1 to 1. He was eating with us the same thing. He was staying with us. He was he was checking on us and he was happy. And he’s such a charismatic guy. And. Yeah, and I do refer a lot of patients to him when I know it’s above me and I know their expectations is high. I like, go there and he’s going to tell you exactly what he can do and what it’s achievable. So go for that. But there’s things that I still can’t apply because there are so many things [00:58:30] to buy the patients. There’s so many things to buy. There’s a lot of I have probably one of the best nurses everyone can have, but it’s just so much more. My surgery is quite tiny. It’s just literally just no more space to bring more stuff and control freak. Why not? Probably yes. I just don’t like people touching my stuff. I just don’t like it. I hate when people work in my surgery and there’s one colleague, bless her, she’s so good, and her nurse as well. They only [00:59:00] go there for one afternoon and she doesn’t. She avoids doing treatment as well. It’s just my my drawers are full of different birds and different stuff. It’s just I don’t like people I have.

Speaker3: You said you buy your own stuff a lot, like give me example. What’s what’s the craziest thing you’ve bought for yourself?

Speaker1: Well, crazy. The biosphere matrix system. So I spend over £2,000 on that.

Speaker3: Is it £2,000?

Speaker1: Well, with the whole thing that they convinced me to buy. Yeah. The posterior, the interior [00:59:30] kit, you need the instruments as well. But then it’s the magic mix that’s very important. This is a polishing bird. And then those polishing little birds does £50 per barrel or something. It’s just very expensive.

Speaker4: What else?

Speaker1: I bought a camera. Well, every dentist should have a camera.

Speaker3: For instance, I’ve come across associates who’ve bought scanners.

Speaker1: I was very tempted. I was I want to buy a liqueur now, which is.

Speaker4: Again a strong one, like a.

Speaker1: £2,000 one, like a valley one. So I want that. There’s [01:00:00] a lot of there’s a lot of bits and bobs that I buy. Yeah, that work for me, that I know how to use them and they just get away with, for example, very deep broken down teeth on one side. I have some matrixes that I buy them on. Well, sometimes Amazon, sometimes eBay. But they have this extension. It just goes right under the gum line. Oh, I just know how they show how they look like I don’t know, I think they come from China so very deep.

Speaker4: Yes.

Speaker1: So they’re like sexual matrixes. They have [01:00:30] like a ring sort of.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: But the matrix is sexual. But then it has an.

Speaker4: Extension, an.

Speaker1: Extension. So it just goes underneath the gum line. It’s just brilliant. Have you come.

Speaker3: Across the greater curve matrix from my friend Sonny?

Speaker4: No.

Speaker3: You should have a great curve matrix.

Speaker1: Okay.

Speaker3: You should have a look at that. It handles a lot of different situations like.

Speaker4: Because.

Speaker1: It’s very difficult to do.

Speaker3: What’s the thing you hate about being a dentist.

Speaker1: It’s some [01:01:00] it’s just sometimes it’s it’s overwhelming. Sometimes you just have one of those days when everyone has a problem and then the lab calls and they reject your impression, and then the nurse drops everything. And it’s just sometimes you just I just want to scream. But then I calmed down and then start all over again, which is fine. But and also it’s the pressure of the notes litigation as well. I know everyone knows that, but it’s very, very, very overwhelming. [01:01:30] And I had touch wood. I’ve never had a complaint like a proper complaint. I had small ones, nothing and never ended up by being. And I only wrote a letter towards the patient. That was it. But touch wood, anything can happen and it can be really bad and but you need to create that relationship with the patient. Not saying that if you do that, they won’t see you. They might.

Speaker4: It is the key, but it helps.

Speaker3: The relationship is the key.

Speaker1: Yes, spending the time to talk with them like [01:02:00] just. And I know my patients like me because even if I’m late, if I’m 40 minutes late, they never leave. They are informed. It’s like, no, no, no, it’s fine.

Speaker4: In this way.

Speaker3: You relate a lot.

Speaker1: No, sometimes I do, because I’m not going to.

Speaker4: We all do sometimes. Yeah. No.

Speaker3: You know, there’s some, some dentists constantly run late.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: No, that or every day run late to some extent.

Speaker1: I have lazy days when I run late just because I just don’t start when [01:02:30] I’m. Yeah. And just take a longer break in between. Yeah. But like it’s a five minutes.

Speaker3: Although, you know, I don’t, I don’t think there’s any situation where it makes sense to run late. You know, even if you’re treating loads of patients here, it doesn’t make sense to run.

Speaker4: Late.

Speaker3: Because, because because if you’ve got a lot of work, it’s better to have long appointments and do the work. Yeah. Yeah. You save a lot of time. Yeah. Yeah. Because if I’ve got two fillings, deep scaling and [01:03:00] whatever to do, it’s much better to book an hour and do all that. Then book 15 minutes and do one of those. Oh, no. Late. Yeah. So? So if you’ve got loads of work, it’s better to book long appointments. Yeah. And if you haven’t got loads of work, it’s better to book long appointments. Yeah. Because then you talk to the patient, find out about you’ve got time.

Speaker4: If I run.

Speaker1: Late, it’s only for the mostly for the private work.

Speaker4: Like as in you’re.

Speaker3: Paying attention extra. Yeah, but then the next patient’s private patient you’ve left. Let that one be late.

Speaker4: Okay? He’s fine. You. Ten [01:03:30] minutes.

Speaker1: Is okay.

Speaker3: Ten minutes is okay. But I’ve been in situations where I’ve been ten minutes late and the patient’s walked out and complained.

Speaker4: Oh, yeah, it can happen. It can be.

Speaker3: Nice to work in the city. Yeah, in the city, in London.

Speaker4: Yeah. I believe that.

Speaker3: Type of patient. Yeah. The other thing is though, I if I go somewhere to a GP my GP always runs late. Yeah. So that half an hour late and anger builds up inside my tummy. Yeah. Thinking why, why, why is this time more precious than my time. Yeah. And I know the [01:04:00] answer. I know the answer to that. But nonetheless, by the way, never show him.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: No, I’m very sweet.

Speaker4: Yeah, but yeah, you.

Speaker1: Do have a good.

Speaker4: Point. You know.

Speaker3: It’s a horrible thing. Why did you tell me to come at 11 and you’re not available till 1130? Yeah. The following time you told me to come at 12. But you can.

Speaker4: Have.

Speaker1: A medical emergency.

Speaker4: Sure. I understand, understand the.

Speaker3: Reasons. Yeah, but in our situation, and sometimes it happens, isn’t it? Something breaks. And now you’ve got a situation. Of course, in that situation run [01:04:30] late. Yeah, but definitely don’t book shorter appointments than you know.

Speaker1: But sometimes you have a surprise. For example, I’ve done a posterior composite today. I was supposed to be a basically a replacement of an occlusal amalgam that chipped, and I didn’t I didn’t even think to think why the occlusal half of the amalgam came out because it was cracked underneath.

Speaker4: Of the tooth.

Speaker1: Yeah. So from an occlusal, it got to an mod. It [01:05:00] was like a massive crack in the middle. And well, I’ve done an overlay, so I drill it down. It was a complete different procedure.

Speaker3: Overlay and pray.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: But yeah, no pain, no symptoms. It’s just got discovered accidentally. The patient just lost feeling a bit. But yeah, it can happen. But I’m not lately.

Speaker4: What’s what’s.

Speaker3: Your. View on where the industry is going.

Speaker1: And you can everywhere. A more digital [01:05:30] probably.

Speaker3: How are you with all that?

Speaker4: I’m okay with the liners.

Speaker1: I trust them because I said I don’t trust the lab, and I do trust the lab that does the aligners, so I’m okay with that.

Speaker4: Have you got.

Speaker3: Into DSD or any of that digital.

Speaker4: Stuff? Not yet. I would.

Speaker1: Like to. I’m not really sure where to start from.

Speaker4: Like coachman.

Speaker3: Right. Christian.

Speaker4: Coachman okay.

Speaker1: So I just need a system first. I just want to get a little play with that before I actually do a proper training. So yeah, more digital definitely. It’s [01:06:00] going to be more, more like what you see in America because at the minute it’s a lot right. Align bleach composite. It’s going to go towards the aesthetic more and more.

Speaker4: Rather than I’m.

Speaker3: Increasingly hearing people talking about these sort of lifestyle practices where it’s not just dentistry, it’s facial. Yes, but it’s not just facial. It’s lots of machines that do things to your skin. And then there’s the idea of sauna [01:06:30] and plunge. And you know, that sounds.

Speaker4: Good.

Speaker3: Lifestyle. I’m hearing that question coming up a lot more. To me. It seems more high risk. If you’re going to open the centre, it’s going to have a sauna. Yeah. And you know, we’re not specialists at operating those those sort.

Speaker4: Of you need to have people that.

Speaker3: Have that. But what I’m hearing a lot more of that recently. So that’s a trend that looks like.

Speaker4: Yeah probably it’s.

Speaker3: It’s happening. And then question I’ve been asking a lot is dream practice. Like what would [01:07:00] it be for you.

Speaker1: Dream practice like.

Speaker4: Where like.

Speaker3: If you bumped into a billionaire and he said, listen, I trust you. Yeah, here’s here’s money. Do whatever you want. Go berserk. What would you do? You must I would.

Speaker4: Yeah, I would open.

Speaker1: A practice obviously. Yeah I would like, like a proper centre. Like a proper proper beauty centre. Like not not quite what you said, but like a bit of everything. Yeah. So you would have the radiograph room and you have everything you need there [01:07:30] like beautiful, like a hotel lounge. It should be. Yeah. A bit of parking as well I think that’s very important.

Speaker4: And that’s. You drove.

Speaker3: Here. You love your car.

Speaker4: Yeah. Well it’s convenient, isn’t it.

Speaker1: Just put everything in there.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: Yeah. And your beautiful surgeries.

Speaker4: Yeah. So Planmeca there?

Speaker3: Yeah. We talked about this before.

Speaker1: If we’re talking a billionaire. So.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: Money is not a problem.

Speaker3: So look, I don’t know if you’ve come across the idea of, like they call it blank canvas.

Speaker4: No, it’s. [01:08:00]

Speaker3: About it’s about venues. Right. Okay. If I’m, if I’m going to do a mini spa makeover, I can do it in a hotel.

Speaker4: Yeah, but I.

Speaker3: Can do it in this thing called a blank canvas. Right. A blank canvas venue means there’s nothing there. Okay? And you can put whatever you want, wherever you want. Yeah, in that place. So let’s say I want to have a bar. You can bring in a bar. Yeah, yeah. Or let’s say I want to put a wall here. I can put a wall there. It’s blank. It’s blank. So that’s becoming a thing in dentistry, right? Yeah. People, people, people getting [01:08:30] into buildings that are more from like the, the industrial side. Yeah.

Speaker4: One like an open space, a massive.

Speaker3: Open space.

Speaker4: Like uni.

Speaker3: Well, open. Just open, open. You can decide yourself where to put the walls. So you.

Speaker4: Could you used to work.

Speaker1: In a practice like that in Romania. Oh I was the shadow. Yeah. So he had like a whatever it was level five in a block of flats and he has open up like a massive apartment. Everything was open space apart from his surgery. His surgery had walls [01:09:00] and some of the offices, but the rest, it was all interconnected. It was like three dental chairs there. And then another one. There are no walls, no nothing.

Speaker3: But the interesting thing about blank canvas is you can decide if you want walls, put walls. Yeah. Or if you if you want your corridors to be wide because that’s the feeling you want. Like this hotel. Yeah.

Speaker4: Like reception. Yeah.

Speaker3: Or if you want your waiting room to be very private, because one person can sit all the way there and sit all the way. Whatever your particular dream [01:09:30] is of what makes an amazing practice, you can’t do it in a normal building, right? Because there’s walls everywhere and you have to negotiate those walls, this blank canvas, like, yeah, I’m hoping there’s going to be a lot more of them.

Speaker4: Yeah, it should be.

Speaker3: There’s been a few already. I’m really interested to see more of them.

Speaker1: We can do it. Whatever you want.

Speaker3: Let’s get to darker times. Okay? We like to talk about mistakes on this pod, right? Because of a book called Black Box Thinking, which is about plane crashes. And [01:10:00] the way they, they deal with plane crashes is they try and find out what went wrong. Yeah. Not whose fault was it, but what went wrong. And then once they figure out what went wrong, they spread that information across all the pilots to say, look, this thing went wrong system wise. We don’t. We’re not blaming anyone. The system was like, how can we improve the system? And in medical, we don’t tend to do that. We tend to run away from [01:10:30] Amazon or try and hide our mistakes because we don’t want to be blamed for them. We definitely don’t talk about our mistakes because it’s kind of a shameful story. So to buck that trend on this pod, we like to talk about mistakes.

Speaker4: Well mistakes. Yeah.

Speaker3: So let’s say clinical mistakes. What comes to mind.

Speaker1: Clinical.

Speaker4: Well I don’t.

Speaker1: Think I’ve had major mistakes that I’ve done. I’ve had well I had a lot of sleepless nights. But I usually get that just because I try a new procedure [01:11:00] and just things, even if I expect it might go wrong, it actually went wrong. And it was just I consider I was the worst day of my life. For example, first time I’ve done small, fast, simple, right? So I tried everything. I booked a long appointment, I had everything ready. I even had the instructions in front. So I knew the procedure and everything. But I had it there. Everything went well until I actually put the stent with the composite in. So they actually teach you the course at [01:11:30] one of the metal separators can just bend. Yeah. When I tried the stent first, it went perfectly in. I had like a case with receding gums as well. So the gum margin was quite high. When I tried it and it was fine, it was sitting fine. When I put the composite in one of the separators bent and it just didn’t go all the way up.

Speaker4: Did you realise it? Yeah.

Speaker1: Okay. And then I felt I get this thing. When I get annoyed, [01:12:00] my ears start burning and they get red. And I feel like, yeah, my brain is on fire and I just want to. I just want to jump off the window, but I don’t show it. No one knows. I said that to my nurse once. She’s like, really? I feel very calm, like, oh God. So I carried on like your everything took it out. And then I needed to add gingerly all the way up to the gum line, and then the upper right one and upper left two were completely [01:12:30] stuck together. Well, they actually tell you what to do. Just breathe. Finish, send the patient home, bring it back, break it, redo it. Which is fine. It’s simple. But that was that was a miss. I don’t know what went wrong. I really don’t know why that. Separated, broke, broke, bent I was, I broke.

Speaker4: I’m not clear.

Speaker3: On it with small fast. Is there an element of IPR before you put the thing?

Speaker4: I’ve done all that.

Speaker3: You’ve done that as well.

Speaker4: All was.

Speaker1: Perfect. Because then you try the stent. After you [01:13:00] prep everything, you try the stent in, you do a bit of you open up the contact. So it’s all like divergent smooth diverge. Yeah. You don’t have any undercuts or anything. So yeah I don’t know what went wrong.

Speaker4: So what did you do.

Speaker3: You send them home.

Speaker4: Or send them home.

Speaker1: And patient didn’t even notice. She was so happy when she came back and I was so stressed I couldn’t sleep for a week.

Speaker4: It’s still a lie. Tell me this as well.

Speaker3: You know. You’ve got the stent in place. Yeah. Obviously there’s no oxygen inhibition layer. So you [01:13:30] can’t add can you add composite to it after.

Speaker1: Not after.

Speaker4: Yeah. Yeah. So so you.

Speaker1: Take the stent out. So you’ve done like it’s like layering the composite. You just apply another layer.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: But because you know because the stent was on there, you haven’t got that sticky layer of composite that you have to wrap it somehow.

Speaker4: So you the.

Speaker1: Stent is clear. You like you’re.

Speaker4: Through it I know, I know, I.

Speaker3: Know, but you know, let’s say I put some composite on a tooth and I cure it. Yeah. There’s a sticky oxygen emission. Yes. Yeah. Then I can put the next layer of composite sticks to it because [01:14:00] of that sticky layer. Right. When you’ve got a stent, that sticky layer doesn’t form. Yes. Adding to it.

Speaker4: How did it work?

Speaker3: It’s different. It’s not it’s not.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: You polish the margin. It’s bone composite again.

Speaker4: Not delivering like a repair.

Speaker1: Yeah. Like a.

Speaker4: Repair. Yeah.

Speaker1: No it’s still there. It looks beautiful even now. I’ve seen the patient. You left.

Speaker4: It. No it didn’t break it up. No no no.

Speaker1: Like ask the patient to come back I said look things happen these guts together. She didn’t even notice. Not even. I don’t think she understood what [01:14:30] I said.

Speaker3: That’s a massive mistake at all, though.

Speaker4: It wasn’t. When I say you must have.

Speaker3: A more juicy mistake than that one. Come on.

Speaker4: Mistake. It went.

Speaker3: So well. Something that didn’t go well, you know.

Speaker4: Well, I did.

Speaker1: Break a of file, but I don’t consider that as a mistake either.

Speaker4: Because you just.

Speaker3: Tell the patient.

Speaker1: Yeah, of course I’ve sent her to have a second opinion. And because I was towards the end of the prep, they said, it’s fine, leave it there. Each patient is absolutely fine even though [01:15:00] there was two canals prepped. One, you’re very band like very, very band like neat like that. I don’t know how I got the other canal done properly. I don’t know, it just spent, like the rotary file broke.

Speaker3: Did you use that famous word? It’s separated.

Speaker4: No, that’s.

Speaker3: That’s what they teach you. You don’t say broke, they.

Speaker4: Don’t.

Speaker3: Separate.

Speaker4: They don’t teach it.

Speaker1: No, it just said one of the files broke. Like, [01:15:30] what do you want me to do? Want me to finish? It was like, yeah, finish that.

Speaker3: Did you never fracture a tuberosity when you took a seven out? No. Oh, wait for that one. Yeah.

Speaker4: No, I know.

Speaker1: What to expect. I know faults, I know what to expect. Oh, yes. So what I did. Yeah that was.

Speaker4: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker1: So a mistake, right? Oroantral communication and nasty one. So I had three cases [01:16:00] of that one. I’m very sure it happened. Patient never felt anything. So I reviewed him and he was absolutely fine because he had a very long teeth and I took an x ray. I was like, he was a private patient. I was like, look, if I take this tooth out, you will have a communication between your sinus and your mouth. And I said, I need to refer you. And the NHS refused to do it. Said, no, it’s fine. Do it is the sinus is not there. I [01:16:30] was like, what? Yeah. So I took the tooth out. It came out in one piece. It was an upper left six. But then I was seeing whenever he was reading. Yeah, it was obvious to connect straight like took a PG did take care of the patient until he actually got bored of coming back for reviews. I was like, look, I’m absolutely fine. Like, let me go. I was like, okay. Second one was a lady that I didn’t do the oral communication. What happened [01:17:00] was she had the upper right seven that needed to be extracted was under the gum line decay, root decay. It was it needed to come out. It was very little bone left. But because the number six, five and four were missing, the sinus was really it was tangent to the bone.

Speaker1: So I took the seven out. Everything was fine, goes out, but you got a dry socket, but the seven was angled like that and the sinus was coming right [01:17:30] very close to the angulation of the tooth. So she came back to the dry socket and she saw someone else. And the intent is to go with the alveolar straight. Not on. She didn’t maybe she didn’t check the x ray, I don’t know. She didn’t go in the proper socket. She went straight into the sinus. So I think so. Yeah. Because after that is when she started to she patient panic. She came to see me. She was like everything I eat and drink is [01:18:00] really not fine. My, my speech is different. Like I, I do a lot of screws and yeah, we reviewed everything. It healed up. I put her on antibiotics. She declined the referral. She said, look, I’m like, I’m going to be fine. As long as you know it’s going to be fine and you keep going to review me, it’s fine. I spoke with another colleague, which she works at a hospital as well. She’s very good with oral surgery, so she says going to heal up. It’s all good. And it was all good until again she said, I’m [01:18:30] okay. I don’t need to come back for reviews. The third one was a good one, so the third one.

Speaker3: Unlucky to have three, isn’t it.

Speaker1: Three cases like ever about linked to this. Yeah, the third one was an upper right six extraction broke one of the roots break the apex and then I don’t really like extractions. I’m not a fan of them. I don’t mind them. I do them all the time. But [01:19:00] I don’t like extractions. I prefer to try to save it, just build it back from nothing or orthodontically extract it or something like that. But when it breaks I get like, oh, now it’s getting interesting. So let’s nicely and nice and gentle. Yes. So I was very close to actually get the root out and I don’t know what happened. I know what happened. It went straight into the site. It’s just disappeared.

Speaker3: Yeah. The number of times I’ve heard that I’ve heard, no.

Speaker1: It gets sucked into the sinus. And I knew [01:19:30] the stories and I knew that’s going to happen. And. I run late. First of all, because I said, look, I told the patient what happened. And then I said that we need to pack it. However it is. I’m going to send you to the hospital. They will probably need to do a search. So I’ve never referred the case here, but I know in Romania what they do, they do a proper surgery. They remove the they remove the fragment completely and or sometimes they don’t find it. I’ve heard stories [01:20:00] like that, but I packed it and I sutured it and I’m very rubbish. That’s what I really rubbish at suturing. So I didn’t have enough gum to close it. So I needed to raise a flap quite bad. It was just, I think.

Speaker3: What a nightmare.

Speaker1: It was, my nurse says. And my nurse doesn’t know how to retract. Couldn’t see anything. It was just a nightmare. I felt like a butcher.

Speaker4: Tissue kept tearing.

Speaker1: I felt like a butcher [01:20:30] and it got really inflamed. Luckily, the patient was very nice, very good. He came back for the review. He was still he was still very sore because again, I was a butcher and I really, really. But he didn’t come back again. I referred him and I think it was accepted, obviously, but I think because he got an appointment with the hospital, he just never came back for a review because I said, I still want to see you just to see how everything goes. Not that I can do anything after [01:21:00] this point, but. He really needed that extraction. I sent him because I said, let’s save the tooth. I’ve sent him to a specialist, and the specialist gave him 20% chance of success with endodontic treatment. So we ended up with the extraction. So it was just. Oh, that was, uh. I’m not. I need to practice sutures more. And if I practice them, they’re beautiful. I just need to practice on a patient, which is difficult, isn’t it?

Speaker3: I did a oral surgery job, [01:21:30] my first job, so I did some suturing. But just listening to you there, it’s PTSD back of. Not that I’ve even made that mistake or done that myself, but the moment when you know something’s gone wrong in dentistry and when it goes wrong, it can suddenly go very wrong, right? That’s the problem. Yeah.

Speaker1: It’s not necessarily because I’ve never I didn’t do a yeah, probably I put the elevator in the wrong position and that. Pushed it.

Speaker3: But you can’t tell. You can’t tell when is the wrong [01:22:00] position and when it’s not. Yeah. Often we’re told to push hard, right?

Speaker4: It was the.

Speaker1: Palatal root as well. And usually it’s the medial ones that get in closer to the sign. It was the belly was very safe. The x ray didn’t show. The sign is very close or well, this is what I thought it was just everything went wrong. Yeah, but I didn’t get a complaint.

Speaker3: In your short career so far, have you ever had a time where a patient did lose confidence in me?

Speaker4: Well, I.

Speaker1: Assume this patient lost [01:22:30] because he never came back. I think this is what most patients do when they lose confidence. They just don’t show up. They don’t come.

Speaker3: Back. Some write letters and some sue and some, you know, some cause all sorts of problems, right?

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: I’ve had three complaints in all my career, but again, nothing was nothing worth mentioning.

Speaker3: I think it qualifies this latest one. This last. No.

Speaker1: That was a proper mistake.

Speaker3: Does qualify. On [01:23:00] reflection, do you think you could have done something differently or. No.

Speaker1: Yeah, I could have. Have a break. I needed a five minutes break. I could have put a gauze there. Put the patient up and myself to have a break. And then if I would have a break, I could have actually find a proper retractor or actually positioned the nurse in the right position so I can see if I could see better. It would have been way better. But EastEnders never retracted the [01:23:30] cheek. In order for you to get there to see, like to actually have the full visibility. She didn’t really know what to do and she did it with a mirror and it was okay. But when I used to assist the surgeon I used to work with, I had a proper cheek retractor. So when I was going, he would see everything. It was perfect. It was like lip. Oh, yeah. In this case was the lip. It was like the lip was never existed. I could have put a proper cheek read or an optic. I’ve never thought about that.

Speaker4: It’s actually. You see, now, that’s [01:24:00] actually a very good point.

Speaker3: Yeah, but when you’re in that situation, you just.

Speaker4: Stop.

Speaker3: Take an x ray maybe. Yeah, in that time.

Speaker4: But you don’t.

Speaker1: Want to take an.

Speaker4: X ray or whatever it is.

Speaker1: You don’t want it because you don’t want to see that. Yeah, you want it to see it, but you don’t want.

Speaker4: To see it.

Speaker3: Yeah, but but it’s a good point. It’s a good point. I mean Depeche even talks about it in composite bonding. He says look halfway through stop stop stop.

Speaker4: Sometimes you can’t see properly. Yeah.

Speaker3: Your eyes are so zoomed in sometimes.

Speaker4: And everything looks the same.

Speaker3: Yeah, yeah. It’s actually a very good point that when you’re in trouble [01:24:30] to stop because it’s the last thing you feel like doing right, you’re just trying to get out of trouble. And then.

Speaker1: You look at the clock, and then you look at the next patients are waiting and they go, because the system that we have, they go from, well, I have pink when they arrive and then they go on purple and then they go on.

Speaker4: Red.

Speaker1: And then you see red, red, red, red.

Speaker4: Which system is that. Sorry.

Speaker1: There are.

Speaker4: 404. Yeah. So that’s stressful. Yeah.

Speaker3: All right. Let’s let’s finish it off with our [01:25:00] usual final questions. Fantasy dinner party. Three guests.

Speaker1: Do they need to be like from Dentistry World? No no.

Speaker4: No. Okay. Fantasy.

Speaker3: Dead or alive.

Speaker1: Dead or alive.

Speaker4: Right. Who would.

Speaker3: You have?

Speaker1: I would have Queen Elizabeth.

Speaker4: Queen. Yeah.

Speaker1: The queen. I love the queen. I was so sad when she died. I was just getting home and I started crying. I would like to hear [01:25:30] a little bit more about what she can say. Like like a full on conversation story. Exactly. And she lived so long, she could actually tell you so much more.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: She lived so much.

Speaker4: She said so much by way of not saying.

Speaker3: Right. Not, not not giving opinion.

Speaker4: But I would.

Speaker1: Like her to just.

Speaker3: You want to get everything.

Speaker4: Yeah. But. Queen. Okay. Queen. Yeah. Um.

Speaker1: What else? Another two. You said. I [01:26:00] would be quite intrigued to find out about that area. 55. In America 51. Yeah.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: I know, maybe.

Speaker4: Someone who has.

Speaker1: Someone who has. Yeah. I don’t know, Barack Obama maybe.

Speaker4: Yeah, I doubt he has.

Speaker3: He’ll it’d be like some some CIA, FBI guy or.

Speaker4: Yeah, that would be that would be good. Yeah.

Speaker1: And what.

Speaker3: Regarding? So you think there are aliens?

Speaker1: I think there is a. Do you actually think we’re the only species? No, no. It is a very good [01:26:30] possibility. I would yeah. Yeah. Space is nice to explore. Would be nice to explore. Apparently we know less about space. No, apparently we know more about space than we know about water. Another the ocean. Another interesting subject. Yeah.

Speaker4: So we’ve had.

Speaker3: The Queen before. We’ve never had area 51 before. So who’s your third guest? The Queen. The guy from the CIA.

Speaker1: Right.

Speaker4: Who’s your third guest?

Speaker1: Third guest. I think someone [01:27:00] from the film industry. I’m really intrigued about how all that Hollywood actually works. I don’t know, like Scorsese or someone. Someone that’s. Well, I know we talked about, like, the dentists that are all there. Not necessarily, but someone old enough that went through all that change.

Speaker4: Different eras?

Speaker1: Yes.

Speaker3: So who’s your favourite director? Scorsese.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: Yeah, I’m very good with names anyway, so we’ll go with that.

Speaker4: Sure, [01:27:30] sure.

Speaker3: It’s a good combination. It’s a good. The Queen, Scorsese and.

Speaker4: The Queen is just.

Speaker3: And the dodgy guy from the.

Speaker4: Guy from the CIA. Exactly. And what about, like, a James Bond?

Speaker1: Kind of.

Speaker4: Yeah, but like.

Speaker1: Our, like, the the.

Speaker4: Actual James.

Speaker3: And the final question. It’s difficult with someone as young as you, but if it was your deathbed and you had all your family and friends and loved ones around you. And you had to give him [01:28:00] three pieces of advice on life. What would you. What would you say?

Speaker1: Be happy. Do things that makes you happy. Stay away from trouble. Like stay away from people that have problems as well, if you can. I don’t like people with problems because I take their problems into mine. And I then feel that I’m upset. I don’t want to be upset. I just want to be happy. So. Yeah. And. Life [01:28:30] is more than I know I do. I am a workaholic, but life is more than work and enjoy. Take time to go and enjoy your holidays. I love holidays and that’s it’s very difficult. It used to be very difficult for me to actually disconnect completely. So I always choose like a least two weeks off because a week I’m still thinking about work. I’m getting better now, like I it only takes me a day [01:29:00] or two. I just sometimes I just forget about my phone completely and it’s great. Just forget about your phone. Just put your phone. I leave my phone in the safe in the room. We have one phone with us for the Google maps, for pictures for something. But enjoy your holidays.

Speaker3: Take someone taught me. One of my friends taught me about this year. Once I went on a weekend away with him and I started enjoying myself on the plane on the way back because like you say, I hadn’t. I was so wound up that [01:29:30] I couldn’t really enjoy my time. And he he pointed out to me, he said, look, what you need to do is you need to slow down from around ten days before you go.

Speaker4: You can. Yeah, but you can’t. Slowing down. Very difficult.

Speaker3: Start slow, but now try and do it.

Speaker4: It’s very difficult to slow down so that on.

Speaker3: The day I get on holiday I’ve already unwound. Whereas before I used to do what you do, my my parents have got a place in Spain. I remember when I get there, when I used to get there, I used to be walking around the swimming pool with my phone.

Speaker4: Yeah, just [01:30:00] checking.

Speaker3: Answering no answering questions and doing things and and just. And then it would take me 4 or 5 days before exactly what you said, where I start forgetting where my phone is. Yeah.

Speaker1: I remember I was like two, three years ago, I went to Greece. I arrived, just arrived on the island and my manager texted me. How are you? Are you okay? No. How are you? And I was like, what happened? So I was like, I’m just wondering, how are you? It’s just a friendly [01:30:30] text. And I was like, oh my God, what happened? Who complained? Something like, you know, just you go straight there, disconnect. Because that complaint or whatever happened, it’s going to be there when you come back and you actually can, you know, take a few, like a step back and actually think about what you’re going to do next is more calculated move than just react on the spot. Yeah.

Speaker3: So that’s to enjoy yourself. Enjoy your holidays.

Speaker1: It’s all about.

Speaker4: Enjoyment.

Speaker1: And [01:31:00] to be honest, I think the third one would be don’t be afraid to try new things just to even to change career completely. Yeah, that’s fine, that’s okay. Try to consider to know, maybe relocate I think because I relocate. So I moved from Romania to UK and I’ve never regretted it. And I’m very happy with this. I would like to move again and that’s my [01:31:30] regret regarding the career I chose because I can’t go anywhere I want, just I can’t go to.

Speaker4: America or.

Speaker1: No, I can’t go to America. I can’t even go to Australia because I finished in Romania. So they don’t accept the university that I finished. I might be able to go to New Zealand, but again, you just need to start lower again and I’m not going to go and start. Just try to do the equivalent of the AWS there. Spend two years trying, spending a lot of money and find with the spiders.

Speaker4: Isn’t [01:32:00] it?

Speaker1: But I would like to have the opportunity to work from home. I would like to have the opportunity to move, to relocate. So whenever you if you if you can, if you’re thinking about if you’re not happy with the job that you’re doing, if it’s not enough, if you if you have the flexibility of maybe move towards a different domain quite easily. Yeah. Why not try? Why not? I always tell this to my nurse. You could.

Speaker3: Take six months.

Speaker4: Off, right?

Speaker1: As you see, I don’t see [01:32:30] it like that. I know I can, but I don’t see it like that. It’s like, who’s going to finish my aligner case? It’s like I.

Speaker4: Can’t finish them off yourself.

Speaker1: Yeah, and then take six months off. No, I’m not going to do that. Not not soon anyway. No, I don’t think it’s that I’m. No, because I’m, I’m not tired. Not yet I want.

Speaker4: More but you know I’m still into it. Sound.

Speaker3: Sound crazy. So you sound tired. You don’t sound tired. But you this yearning for travel. Yeah. Part of that is you’re [01:33:00] working too hard.

Speaker4: Yes. Because we only have, like, a month off.

Speaker1: A year.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: There’s another part of it that’s like discovery, right? Yeah. To see and feel what it’s like to live in San Francisco or Bali or wherever. Wherever. Yeah, yeah, there is part of that. But there is another part of it of working too hard.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: You know what? I’m afraid that if I disconnect for six months.

Speaker4: We’ll never come back.

Speaker1: Not necessarily, but I don’t know how to come back after pandemic, I forgot. Yeah, but you see, I [01:33:30] forgot how I used to do things. I forgot I needed to ask a.

Speaker4: Colleague for five.

Speaker3: Years and went back.

Speaker4: It was. Did you remember everything?

Speaker3: No, no, it was difficult. It was difficult. But that was five years.

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker3: And listen, it’s a hypothetical. Yeah. My hypothetical is you could do it.

Speaker4: Yeah, you can do it. Yeah, of course I can.

Speaker3: Yeah. And you know what we said about the pandemic, what we said about stopping in many ways. Do you have any guilt about leaving your parents? No.

Speaker4: Because you’re fine. Yeah.

Speaker1: They’re they’re they’re [01:34:00] well accomplished. They don’t need.

Speaker4: Me. Yeah.

Speaker1: They have friends. They don’t need me.

Speaker4: They can’t miss you. They do.

Speaker1: But they can visit me any time. It’s not like they can’t. I can go there as well, and I do once a year. We do usually go.

Speaker3: If you go home like four times a year and holiday six, seven times a year, like that’s, that’s what would really accomplish me.

Speaker4: I’m okay if I go home. It’s just they’re.

Speaker1: Happy to see me for [01:34:30] like.

Speaker4: Five minutes and.

Speaker1: Then.

Speaker4: They.

Speaker1: Start talking about how am I a failure.

Speaker4: So really? Yeah, it’s.

Speaker1: Never enough for them. So it’s just I can’t be bothered.

Speaker3: So we’re going to have to cut this out so you can send it to them.

Speaker4: Yeah yeah yeah. No they don’t.

Speaker1: They don’t, don’t speak English. It’s fine.

Speaker4: No no but well we.

Speaker1: Might get it translated. Okay.

Speaker3: It’s been a massive pleasure to have you.

Speaker1: Thank you so much.

Speaker4: Thank you so much.

Speaker3: For being so open as well. It’s been [01:35:00] a lovely conversation. Thanks a lot.

Speaker4: Thank you.

Speaker2: This is Dental Leaders, the podcast where you get to go one on one with emerging leaders in dentistry. Your hosts. Payman Langroudi and Prav Solanki.

Speaker5: Thanks for listening, guys. If you got this far, you must have listened to the whole thing. And just a huge thank you both from me and pay for actually sticking through and listening to what we’ve had to say [01:35:30] and what our guest has had to say, because I’m assuming you got some value out of it.

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