Content creator Sophie Milner shares her journey from journalism student to online influencer, touching on themes of mental health, social media’s impact, and the challenges of online life. 

The discussion also explores the nuances of online expression, gender identity, and the complexities surrounding cosmetic procedures and mental health treatments.


In This Episode

00:30 – Backstory

02:10 – From journalism to content creation

05:45 – Social media and mental health

15:30 – Cosmetic procedures and societal expectations

22:25 – Men’s mental health and role models

29:30 – Haters

31:50 – Antidepressants and mental health treatment

38:50 – Health forums and support systems

42:10 – Going solo


About Sophie Milner

Sophie Milner is a fashion content creator and influencer. Find her on Instagram at @itssophiemilner.


Speaker1: You’ve got to kind of put yourself first because we are individuals and if you’re not operating okay up here [00:00:05] for yourself, you’re not going to be able to like, do anything else that you’re going to start falling apart. So you always [00:00:10] have to put yourself first.

Speaker2: This is mind [00:00:15] movers. Moving the conversation forward on mental [00:00:20] health and optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts [00:00:25] Rhona Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Speaker3: Sophie. [00:00:30] Hi. Hi. I’m so happy to have you here [00:00:35] today. Sophie, I’m going to give you a little bit of background. So Sophie is somebody that I followed online for a really [00:00:40] long time. I had a massive girl crush on her, actually. And then I started working with [00:00:45] the incredible Becky Knowles, who works in PR. She started playing our parlour, you know, at the beginning, and [00:00:50] we had loads of amazing press. And she said to me, I’d love to send you Sophie Milner. I was like, I have low key even [00:00:55] like girl crushing her, liking all her stuff. One of the things that drew me to [00:01:00] Sophie was that she’s incredibly brave online, and what I mean that she doesn’t hold [00:01:05] back and she’s very opinionated in that sort of, you know, in that way that makes you proud to be [00:01:10] a woman. She often expresses herself in a way that I find very difficult, and I find her [00:01:15] to be very fair online, whilst also not taking any crap from anyone, which is what I struggle [00:01:20] with all the time, because I always feel like I’m people pleasing. Sophie’s not only one of the biggest [00:01:25] content creators in the UK, she’s also an academic. Um, so she’s somebody [00:01:30] that, you know, went to university, is very successful in her own right when it came to academia, [00:01:35] was a journalist, then turned content creator. And she definitely give [00:01:40] her a follow because she always provides the most insightful posts and talks about all sorts of issues, [00:01:45] from feminism to gender, gender identity to relationships to [00:01:50] fashion. So welcome. Sophie.

Speaker1: Hi. Oh my God, that was so nice. Thank you for having me.

Speaker3: No, [00:01:55] I’m so I’m so pleased that you could be here today. So for those of for [00:02:00] those people that don’t know you or don’t follow you, I want you to basically just give a little bit of background [00:02:05] on how you started content creating a little bit of your journey from school, university to now. [00:02:10]

Speaker1: Sure. So I started off doing journalism at university in Cardiff, and then I really I, [00:02:15] you know, I had that dream that every girl has of being a fashion writer in the city. So I went [00:02:20] on to do fashion journalism at Central Saint Martins as my master’s degree, which was [00:02:25] amazing, totally different experience. And then after that, I’ll be very honest, I really [00:02:30] struggled to get a job in journalism because I went straight into doing a master’s [00:02:35] degree and I didn’t really do any interning. It was that horrible issue of, oh, [00:02:40] you’re overqualified, but under experienced, go away and intern for free someplace [00:02:45] for a little while and will maybe consider giving you a job. I was obviously living [00:02:50] in London. I’d spent 18 months doing a master’s degree. I was like, I can’t afford to work for free anymore. [00:02:55] So I ended up going into copywriting at a luxury department store for their online, [00:03:00] um, side, which was which was good. It was a it was a very it was quite creatively [00:03:05] draining job. It’s definitely one of those jobs that they would be able to do just with AI now. So I don’t even [00:03:10] know if I’d be employed anymore if I still work there. But it’s um.

Speaker3: And to.

Speaker1: Chatgpt. Yeah, [00:03:15] legit. I feel like there’d be someone just plugging things into that, but it was just like writing creative copy [00:03:20] for, um, fashion pieces, which was kind of fun for a while, but it was the same thing every [00:03:25] day. And at the time I started my original blog. So this was like back in like [00:03:30] the blogger days when it wasn’t you weren’t an influencer or content creator, you were a blogger. So I’d started [00:03:35] that doing whilst I was doing my first degree because I was like, oh, I want to show that I have some like fashion interests [00:03:40] and experience. And I kept it up through my master’s and my [00:03:45] first job, and it ended up doing better than I [00:03:50] kind of was in my actual job. And even though I was applying and freelancing for like other journalism roles, [00:03:55] I just started earning more money on sort of like my side hustle than I was in my everyday [00:04:00] job. And at that point I was like, yeah, I kind of need to leave my job. And that was seven, [00:04:05] nearly seven, eight years ago now. But back then.

Speaker3: How would people how would bloggers monetise? [00:04:10] Right. Because for me, I used to sometimes see blogs. Do you ever read blogs? Obviously on fashion? Yeah. And I thought, you can’t [00:04:15] monetise this. I mean, I just thought this was something people did, you know, for fun. Well, it was.

Speaker1: Like it was the same as you’d see a sponsored Instagram [00:04:20] post. It was a sponsored blog post. So you would write about the products. It was almost as like SEO. So [00:04:25] you would write about like the products and the brands and whatever you were being paid to promote. And usually you’d kind [00:04:30] of almost do it as a package deal where they’d be like, oh, we want one Instagram post and a blog [00:04:35] post and what would be your fee for this? And you kind of sell it as a package, and your Instagram post would [00:04:40] essentially promote your blog post. And yeah, it would just help them with SEO. So this was like the old school days. But then [00:04:45] as things were like taking off, it was all just about like Instagram promotion and like, [00:04:50] you know, this was even know this was just as Instagram Stories became a thing. Yeah. So yeah, it was [00:04:55] all around the time of like when Instagram was really booming. Youtube as well, I do YouTube. The majority [00:05:00] of my followers grew during the 2016 period, and that was like [00:05:05] I went from having like zero subscribers to 32,000, and now to this day I have 42,000, [00:05:10] but I’ve only grown that last 10,000 in the past, like, like six years. [00:05:15]

Speaker3: But you know what? It’s so funny because we had someone else, um, who was an incredible podcaster. She [00:05:20] actually boomed. So she literally gained like 100,000 followers within like six months. And she’s [00:05:25] at that stage now where she’s like, you feel it’s almost like a blank. Blessing and a curse because you’re [00:05:30] like, wow, I must be doing something right. And then you grow really slowly and you’re like, what am I not doing [00:05:35] right? And then you get into that kind of like self-critical space and start to question yourself. [00:05:40] So I think, you know, that’s the sort of danger about growing so fast, you know.

Speaker1: No, it’s [00:05:45] so true. I grew really, really fast over the space of around about a year, [00:05:50] and then everything slowed down. And then it does. You kind of go, it was, you know, what? That [00:05:55] person describing it as a blessing and a curse is so, so right. Because I when I was growing, [00:06:00] I felt so overwhelmed. I actually had the worst anxiety. My mental health was possibly nearly [00:06:05] the worst it’s probably ever been, and I felt very out of control. I also didn’t have an agent [00:06:10] back then, so I had no real support and I just moved in by myself. [00:06:15] So I was living alone and it was just very difficult to manage, and I felt like I was getting hundreds of DMs [00:06:20] a day, like people just replying to my stories and people just like sending me messages being like, oh, what [00:06:25] would you wear to like, you know, like your boyfriend’s like best friend’s dinner, like kind of thing. And I [00:06:30] just felt so overwhelmed all the time. I felt like I was suffocating. So when [00:06:35] things slowed down, even though I was there, like, oh my God, like, do people hate me? Am I doing something [00:06:40] wrong? Am I like, am I a failure? It was all those things at the same time. I was like, this [00:06:45] piece is kind of nice. Like it’s a little bit like at least I feel like I can slow down a [00:06:50] little bit and I don’t feel like I’m being overwhelmed as much. So it was like a blessing and a curse [00:06:55] for sure.

Speaker3: No, I love that. So we move on because I think, you know, a lot of people [00:07:00] also think that they cannot leave a vocational career and then move [00:07:05] on to kind of like the online world. And we’re lucky enough to have had lots of people, like in the public eye [00:07:10] and in the online world. But it’s not for the faint hearted. You speak [00:07:15] about your mental health a lot, right? I want to know, though, what who was [00:07:20] your first kind of role model online that pushed you? Because I think confidence is a massive thing, [00:07:25] right? Like even me when I was starting like now I’ve got a platform, Dental platform, etc., [00:07:30] there was definitely someone that I looked up to that was like, I want to be like you. And it was from a confidence point [00:07:35] of view more than anything. And I knew that that’s what I wanted to emulate. So who was that person for you?

Speaker1: So [00:07:40] I always really loved, um, this woman called, um, Audrey Layton Rogers, and [00:07:45] she. She’s still around. Yeah. She is, so she is. Look her up. She is. She goes [00:07:50] under the name of, uh. Well, we used to go under the name of, um, be Frassi. And that was how she started as a blog. And she was just [00:07:55] this really amazing, sassy, stylish woman. And she’s just she’s a writer as well. So the way that she communicates [00:08:00] online, even when she’s talking, or if she’s just writing Instagram stories, it’s just so smart. And she’s [00:08:05] become a friend of mine over the years, which is amazing. And I met up with her like last, [00:08:10] last September in Barcelona, where she was living at the time for the first time, having been online friends with her for years. [00:08:15] But she’s just always, I don’t know, like I she really inspired me just to kind of like, really speak my [00:08:20] mind and be a powerful woman because she is a powerful woman. She’s someone who goes to the gym and weight [00:08:25] lifts and her like aspiration is to be like really muscly. And, you know, men will send her like, messages [00:08:30] on dating apps and be like, oh, are you trans and things? Because she’s so muscly and she’s like, no, I just have bigger [00:08:35] muscles than you. So it’s like, she’s just she’s just a really amazing, inspiring woman. Like [00:08:40] she’s very like, I can be like strong, muscular, feminine, all of these things. And one, she’s an [00:08:45] incredible businesswoman. Um, owns a brand now, and she’s based in Paris. Yeah. She’s amazing. She’s really. Please [00:08:50] look her up. She’s great. But my question.

Speaker3: Is to you as well. Were you always vocal online since day one? [00:08:55]

Speaker1: I actually think. Yes, I actually, [00:09:00] to be honest, yeah. Even when I first started my blog, I would always speak about slightly more [00:09:05] controversial topics or like more opinionated, not controversial, but like [00:09:10] I would, I would share my opinions more. And I guess it kind of comes from being a writer [00:09:15] and studying writing and even this actually really funny. I even think back to when I was 14 [00:09:20] and, you know, when the MSN was a thing and you had like these little like, MSN blog things. [00:09:25] And I used to write a blog, and I remember writing a fashion report of what everyone wore to prom when I was 14, [00:09:30] and I said that I was really disappointed that one of the boys showed up wearing shorts with a tuxedo, [00:09:35] and I just thought I said that he looked messy. And then he sent me like a really mean message afterwards. So that was like my first [00:09:40] trolling experience. At 14, he said he hopes that I died. I was like, oh my God, I received my [00:09:45] first death threat. 14 so I think I’ve always been quite like, opinionated. I just I think back [00:09:50] then I wasn’t necessarily sure the weight that my opinions held because I was felt like I was shouting [00:09:55] into a empty room, whereas now I’m very aware that the room is full with a lot [00:10:00] of people. Yeah.

Speaker3: It’s so funny that because I think that, you know, especially as women, we [00:10:05] can show traits of, I want to call it leadership, right? I want to call it leadership. Like, you can be a young [00:10:10] guy, like I was a loud young girl, and I love the camera. And I used to get labelled [00:10:15] as bossy, right. Because I used to be, you know, I used to be that girl that wanted all the attention. And I [00:10:20] think we’re recognising that was probably leadership skills that I was showing from a young age. And I think, like now, if [00:10:25] I have a daughter, I would like actually want to encourage her and I’d want to [00:10:30] like harness those as well. But I think in a way, like you sort of know the woman that you are or like from [00:10:35] a young age, and it’s important about being able to kind of express yourself in a way. [00:10:40]

Speaker1: Yeah, completely. It’s really weird because I feel like I was always I had this like loud, [00:10:45] like bossy girl within me that wanted to come out, but I was always [00:10:50] quite on the surface, very shy. It took me I don’t know what it took me to bring that out, but I’m the [00:10:55] same. I’d. I think it’s a shame I was even thinking of this whole, like how women are labelled bossy [00:11:00] and men are named like labelled like assertive. To two hours ago I was thinking [00:11:05] I was just, I don’t know where my train of thought just went there and I was like, why is it that this always happens? It’s really annoying [00:11:10] because even now I catch myself still sometimes referring to women and thinking, oh yeah, she’s nice, but she’s a little bit bossy. [00:11:15] And then I’m like, oh, I just did that thing. And like, yeah, it’s kind of having that self accountability. But [00:11:20] yeah.

Speaker4: I think the sorry to interrupt, but I think the the [00:11:25] interesting question is both of you as kind of influencers, I mean, in your way and [00:11:30] in your way, that there must be a tension between what you want to say and [00:11:35] what works to say.

Speaker3: We both looked at each other.

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah. [00:11:40] Like a very knowing look like, oh yeah.

Speaker4: And, you know, to take it to its extreme, I mean, you could just walk [00:11:45] around in bikinis and you’re following, you’re following would grow, no doubt. Yeah, but that’s [00:11:50] not what you want to represent right to. Obviously you’re not going to do that. But what I’m [00:11:55] saying is how much of what you do is, is dictated by the algorithm. [00:12:00] And that worked. I’m going to do that again. And how much of it is what’s on your mind? And I guess there is this [00:12:05] perfect moment when the two things coincide.

Speaker3: I think I, you know, I like it’ll be interesting [00:12:10] to hear like Sophie’s viewpoint, because I think also an art to being a [00:12:15] successful content creator is mastering the algorithm. Because at the end of the day, if your [00:12:20] job is a full time job as a content creator, you need to monetise that as well. Let’s be honest, [00:12:25] it’s your full time job, right? It’s not just something that you do sort of on the side, which is more like me because I’m just [00:12:30] trying to gain patience. I don’t necessarily need to get paid for like ads and things like that, but when [00:12:35] I hit the algorithm, I’m like, oh, I know that this is working. So I therefore need to do that. But that doesn’t [00:12:40] sometimes align with what I want to do, because sometimes I put out something. I’m like, I love that even. It [00:12:45] might be like a sound bite of something that we’ve done. And I’m like, I love that. Me and Payman really spoke with passion [00:12:50] and it flops on the algorithm and I’m like, but why don’t people care about human rights, you know? [00:12:55] And then I might post something like, um, like you say, a sexy transition [00:13:00] and it does better. And I’m like, why is that done better? Or the opposite can happen. I want my sexy transition [00:13:05] to do well. I’m like, people aren’t validating the way that I look. So there is this internal dichotomy that goes [00:13:10] on between what I want to post and what I want to do well versus what I know does [00:13:15] well. And I think it’s interesting because sometimes I post stuff on stories first before I do on post, I’m like, oh, [00:13:20] that’s done well on stories, then I’ll post it. Does that make sense?

Speaker1: That’s really smart. See, I, I have this quite [00:13:25] a bit and I see things that obviously do very well on Instagram. And I have seen [00:13:30] creators that I follow grow like a hundred thousand followers in quite [00:13:35] a short space of time. And there is this very, very, very popular form of content right now. [00:13:40] And it is. And I you know what I’m going to say it. It’s and this is no shade at all because I think [00:13:45] it works for some people, but it doesn’t quite sit well with me. And it’s um, and I understand why it does. Well, [00:13:50] so it’s this whole form of content of, um, recreating Pinterest outfits on a size 10 [00:13:55] to 12 body or a size 12 to 14 body. And they are quite average [00:14:00] sizes for a lot of women to be in their late 20s, early 30s. [00:14:05] But we don’t necessarily see it replicated and we don’t see it on Pinterest. But these [00:14:10] kind of pieces of content tend to go viral a lot because a lot of people want to see it. [00:14:15] But for me, I don’t know. I have suffered with a lot of body issues in my in my life, [00:14:20] and I find that content that is very size specific can [00:14:25] be quite triggering.

Speaker1: And I don’t know, but that’s just very me and I, [00:14:30] I don’t know, it opens up channels of debate in the comments. And, you know, I’ve seen other people [00:14:35] do it before and people will be in the comments being like, oh my God, you’re not a size 12. You’re you’re definitely [00:14:40] way bigger than that. And oh no, no, what are you talking about? She only looks like a size ten. And I [00:14:45] just like, I could never put myself in the firing line of people dissecting my body. And I think when [00:14:50] you put out content saying, oh, recreating these outfits on a X kind [00:14:55] of body, you are instantly opening the conversation for your body to be dissected and spoken [00:15:00] about. So for me, even though I know I could probably gain a lot of followers by doing that, I [00:15:05] just can’t put myself there because once again, it will destroy my mind and [00:15:10] it will trigger me massively.

Speaker3: So what’s interesting that you say that because I don’t know if you’ve seen Sophie’s content, but Sophie’s [00:15:15] also been very open about surgery she’s had or kind of facial cosmetic procedures. [00:15:20] So when you’re so open and doing that, do you not feel like you’re putting yourself in the firing line then like, what’s [00:15:25] the difference?

Speaker1: I feel as though it’s it’s my face [00:15:30] and I feel it’s a real difficult thing that I’ve really toyed with. I remember when I had my nose [00:15:35] job and I, I didn’t want to tell anyone, I wasn’t going to tell anybody. [00:15:40] And I remember speaking to a few of my close friends and they were like, Sophie, how the hell are you going to hide it? It’s on your face. And I [00:15:45] was like, I know, but like, I’m having a very natural nose job. And I felt like I couldn’t [00:15:50] hide, hide that I had to tell the truth. And a lot of people said, oh, you know, [00:15:55] it’s better to be honest and open about getting work done than then [00:16:00] to, to hide it because, you know, like these beauty standards and, you know, it’s you’re [00:16:05] contributing to a problem by not speaking about it. And I was like, but am I not contributing [00:16:10] to a problem by speaking about it? Am I not encouraging people to go and get surgery? [00:16:15] And then I was stuck with this problem. And I’ve spoken about this so much, and it’s something that I still feel so conflicted [00:16:20] by.

Speaker1: And I flip between the two all the time, and it’s, do I tell [00:16:25] people about my cosmetic surgery, which I have, I have done or do [00:16:30] I and like, you know, risk encouraging people to go get surgery or do I just not say [00:16:35] anything? And I and like, you know, then people don’t know. But then people might look at me and be like, oh, she looks [00:16:40] so great. And oh, I wish I looked like that. And then it feels like a lie. So I don’t ever [00:16:45] know what to do. And I’ve, I’ve gone the other way now where sometimes I’m like, I actually don’t know if I want [00:16:50] to talk about it anymore, because I don’t know if it is helpful as much as [00:16:55] people like, oh no, it’s really helpful to be honest. We love transparency and influencer. I’m like, I don’t know if [00:17:00] it does help people, so I really don’t know what the answer is. And I feel conflicted all the time. It actually like makes [00:17:05] me feel really guilty.

Speaker4: The thing is, this needle that you’re dancing on is the whole problem. [00:17:10] Where in with Instagram, let’s say you can’t look at someone’s Instagram profile and no one [00:17:15] thinks you look at someone’s Instagram profile, that’s their life, because it is a sort of a highlight reel. At [00:17:20] the same time, what seems to work is authenticity. And [00:17:25] so he talks.

Speaker3: About this all the time.

Speaker4: Oh do you. So yeah. So so so you know the [00:17:30] problem is those two that tension between those two. But I noticed I was looking at your content. [00:17:35] I noticed you were doing things like uh, catcalling um, as a, as a he was.

Speaker3: Super interested [00:17:40] in this. He’s like, how often do you get catcalled? I was like, sometimes he’s like, but she gets catcalled all the time. I was like, [00:17:45] okay, fine, you know, are you feeling bad? I was like, okay, then that’s cool. Thanks for coming. [00:17:50] You know?

Speaker4: You know. So for instance, I didn’t even know it was a thing. I had no idea it was a thing, really. [00:17:55] Um, I do remember when I was 17 years old, one of my friends doing it all the time, but. [00:18:00] But I didn’t realise it was still a thing. I didn’t realise it was something that bothered you. Yeah. And there is a [00:18:05] I mean, I don’t think it’s equivalent, but there is a opposite of catcalling that I’ve [00:18:10] seen as well.

Speaker3: But with men.

Speaker4: Well, I’ve got friends who’ve got supercars and women are trying [00:18:15] to get their attention as they’re driving. Do you know, I’ve seen that many. I’ve been in the I’ve been in the car. [00:18:20]

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker4: Yeah. So that does happen too.

Speaker3: But because I think it’s really important that Sophie has [00:18:25] this conversation because when the Sophie, when the Sophie Everard thing happened, Sarah Everard [00:18:30] um, when the Sophie Sarah when the Sarah Everard thing happened, Sophie was very [00:18:35] vocal about it and felt very passionate because obviously as women we felt so much violation. [00:18:40] Um, you know, she represented so many of us and so many different ways, [00:18:45] you know, and you were really open about that. What I have found interesting, though, and I’d be interested [00:18:50] to get your view on this. I recently went out with a few girlfriends [00:18:55] and what I realised is women behave. Really? Really thirsty to men, even if men [00:19:00] have a girlfriend. I was so shocked. This has happened to me a few times, where I’ve been [00:19:05] out with my girlfriends and other women are blatantly hitting on their boyfriends blatantly, [00:19:10] blatantly. And I’m like, whoa, this is such a like boundary like. And I felt really. [00:19:15] And my girlfriends get really upset because they’re like, I’m standing here like, it’s so rude. Do you know what I mean? [00:19:20] And so I was like, this is so interesting. But obviously I asked the guys, I’m like, do you like that, guys? And they’re like, no, [00:19:25] we actually don’t like it. So, you know, you speak a lot, which is what I want to touch on [00:19:30] you on, like, you know, kind of men, you know, female energy, male energy, toxic masculinity, all these different [00:19:35] elements. So like, let’s break it down, like with with catcalling. What how does it make you feel [00:19:40] and what and do you think that we are moving more towards the side where we’re actually [00:19:45] scaring men off to make a move?

Speaker1: I mean, catcalling makes me feel naked on the street. It [00:19:50] makes me feel uncomfortable. Even earlier today, I was walking [00:19:55] up a road and I saw a group of, um, builders scaffolders. Instantly I felt anxiety [00:20:00] because I was just like, fuck sake, here we go again. Sorry. So I was just like, here we go again. Okay, good. Because [00:20:05] I was just like, because it happened so frequently. And whether it’s just whistles, whether it’s just the way they all stop and stare and put down [00:20:10] their tools and stare as you, as you walk by. And I know people will be like, it’s a compliment, but it’s not. And a really good example [00:20:15] of this is the fact that there have been times where men [00:20:20] in those environments have been have actually, genuinely paid me [00:20:25] a compliment. So there was a delivery driver, and delivery drivers can be quite notorious for catcalling and beeping [00:20:30] their horns or staring out the window. There was a delivery driver who was doing a delivery and I was walking by and he went, oh [00:20:35] my God, you’re absolutely gorgeous. Have a really lovely day. And it was so, so [00:20:40] nice. Whereas that is so different to a man like beeping their horn really aggressive at you [00:20:45] and then making you jump and then them laughing at you, that is completely different. Like [00:20:50] one is a compliment. One is not a compliment. And this is the thing. It’s how it is put [00:20:55] out there. I had this guy come up to me in the street and, you know, he sounds really bad.

Speaker1: He looked he looked [00:21:00] homeless and he came up and he was just he got he got quite close to me and then went, you’re bloody lovely, darling. Where are [00:21:05] you going tonight? I hope you have a lovely time. And I was just like, you’re so nice. That is so. And it wasn’t [00:21:10] threatening. It wasn’t horrible. He just left it as it was. And I think that’s the thing. I think a lot of people, people who [00:21:15] say like, oh, yeah, well, you know, catcalling, catcalling, it’s just a compliment. It’s not, it’s not if [00:21:20] it’s not done in a complimentary way. And I think a lot of men will hide what they’re doing [00:21:25] as a compliment, when actually it’s just them trying to impose their power dynamics. [00:21:30] I got I’ve got men fired before because I called their employers. I complained about [00:21:35] them, I called their employers, and I posted online about it, and I was just like this company. Someone called me. And then actually, [00:21:40] like the female CEO called me and were like, we are absolutely disgusted [00:21:45] by this behaviour. We want to know exactly where this happened. Do you have a photo? Send us the photos. We need the registration [00:21:50] plate. And then they ended up firing the guys like it’s happened a few times and [00:21:55] it’s. But the companies have always taken it very seriously. So this is what I’d always say. I would always say complain [00:22:00] to the company and I think they.

Speaker4: Deserve to be fired.

Speaker1: Yeah I do, they should know better. They absolutely should [00:22:05] know better. Like you shouldn’t be going around treating people like me. I don’t think so. And I think that’s the thing. I think at least [00:22:10] he should have been reprimanded. I think, okay, maybe fired was a little bit harsh, but I feel that at [00:22:15] the end of the day, it needs to be taken seriously. And I think if someone gets fired, it shows that [00:22:20] they’re taking it. Yeah, it shows that they’re taking it seriously and that other people won’t be doing it anymore.

Speaker3: So [00:22:25] my question is though, so we have a lot of we talk a lot about men’s mental health as well. [00:22:30] And you know that like the biggest cause of male death under the age of 25 is male suicide. [00:22:35] And, you know, men are massively underrepresented. I talk a lot about Andrew Tate and I shouldn’t on this [00:22:40] podcast because I feel like we’ve really failed society. If he is [00:22:45] the male, um, the person that men look up to, you know, I feel like we’ve really [00:22:50] failed them. But my question is as well, how do we I mean, [00:22:55] how can we do better? Do you know what I mean? Because also. So on the one hand, I totally agree with you. [00:23:00] Men shouldn’t treat women like me. The ones that are behaving badly, you know, should sort [00:23:05] of like be called out. We should set a precedent and a standard. But do you not think that also some guys [00:23:10] will be like, well, I don’t know how to approach a girl, like, what’s the way to do it? You know, like, how can we do [00:23:15] better for these guys? And who can be who can be, who can be like the person that they look [00:23:20] up to? Okay.

Speaker1: So this question I feel is twofold. Guys who are like, oh my God, I’m scared to approach a woman. Honestly, [00:23:25] if you’re scared to approach a woman, then you don’t know how to approach a woman. So that’s one thing that’s that’s instantly a problem. Go [00:23:30] on YouTube, you can find it out. Like, honestly, look at how look at how women find female content [00:23:35] creators who say how to approach a woman. Totally. But then the whole thing about actually [00:23:40] like men’s mental health and then not having a role model, that in itself is a very, very sad and [00:23:45] difficult issue. And the thing is, I genuinely do believe there are a lot of male role models out [00:23:50] there that are a lot healthier, but I think what we need to I don’t think it’s a case of like, oh, we don’t have them [00:23:55] because they exist. Like I always I mean, I’m a. Formula one fan. So I’m like Lewis Hamilton. [00:24:00] He’s amazing. Like, you know, he he stands up for, you know, women’s rights, LGBTQ [00:24:05] rights. He stands up for men’s rights. He stands up for. And he still.

Speaker3: Gives like an alpha.

Speaker1: Energy. Yeah. And he’s [00:24:10] like he’s a mixed race man. So he’s like you know he’s a he’s a black man. So it’s like but maybe that’s [00:24:15] part of the problem. Maybe there’s racism in there. That’s why people don’t want to look up to him. They want to look up to like a, [00:24:20] uh, someone who is a straight, very straight white man who doesn’t represent all these other things. [00:24:25] And I think that’s that’s the issue. I think there are a lot of male role models out there who [00:24:30] are good people, but for some reason, a lot of men are gravitating towards these [00:24:35] bad role models. And I think I don’t know why that is. [00:24:40] I feel I do I feel like I feel like men in society today feel, do feel quite lost. And I think, [00:24:45] I think the issue is a lot of women have gained a lot more equality, and [00:24:50] men are feeling slightly uncomfortable, like they don’t necessarily [00:24:55] know where their place is anymore because they’ve always kind of had that role of being like, oh, I’m a provider, I do this, I [00:25:00] do that well now it’s like a lot of women are outearning men in a lot of cases. And, you know, like doing better [00:25:05] than men. And I think men are a bit like, oh, well, where do I stand? And well, you know, you can buy me dinner. And I think [00:25:10] it’s kind of level the playing field and makes them feel like they don’t know where they belong. But I don’t feel like the [00:25:15] answer to that is to then make women feel like shit. Like. No. Like, you know, [00:25:20] I feel like there needs to be a a better solution. But with we don’t know what that [00:25:25] is. You know what.

Speaker3: My pet peeve is? Men that say, oh, she intimidates me. She’s intimidating. [00:25:30] Oh, and I know that you think that’s a thing. You’re like me. No, because I’m just like, it’s annoying. Like, just man [00:25:35] up. Do you know what I mean? Like, why am I intimidating you? Because I have a voice. Like, I’m sure Sophie gets all the time [00:25:40] because I have an opinion, you know? And it was so. It was so funny because I [00:25:45] was with a group of friends, and, um, one of my friends is dating a very sort of alpha [00:25:50] guy, and he was like, I want my a girlfriend. That’s [00:25:55] my plus one.

Speaker4: He’s a fool. He’s a.

Speaker3: Fool. I love that, I love that. [00:26:00]

Speaker4: Yeah, but the intimate intimidation thing is real. Insomuch as when when you’re younger, as [00:26:05] a man. I mean, you say that you should just go and find out, but it’s very, [00:26:10] very, very hard as a as a man to even approach a girl. Yeah. These [00:26:15] days when everyone’s in their phones. Yeah. It’s, you know, there’s, there’s nothing there’s, there’s, there’s [00:26:20] no way of making any connection. At the same time we’ve got swiping to the right or whatever that is. [00:26:25] Yeah. So, so that’s kind of made up for it. Yeah. But the Andrew Tate thing that we keep on talking about unfortunately [00:26:30] I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a case of what you said is right Sophie [00:26:35] that that underprivileged men. And by that I don’t mean [00:26:40] black or I mean it turns out white underprivileged men are [00:26:45] some of the most unrepresented people in society. Yeah, they’re the ones who do the worst [00:26:50] in society. And that may have been the cause of Brexit. True. [00:26:55]

Speaker3: Yeah. Fear. It’s the fear. It’s the fear that made them. Yeah.

Speaker4: It’s like right now a voice [00:27:00] is being given to women, trans people, you know, uh, different races, but white [00:27:05] underprivileged men haven’t got a voice. And so they’ve gravitated to this sort of extremes. [00:27:10]

Speaker1: I don’t know if I feel like they don’t have a voice. They’ve always had a voice. I feel like I [00:27:15] feel like if there’s a pie chart and there’s like, this much voice, [00:27:20] I feel like they’ve always had such a big percentage. But I feel like now because of, like other, like slices [00:27:25] of this pie are being handed out to, to to more minority communities. They feel like they don’t have a [00:27:30] voice anymore, but they still do have one.

Speaker4: The thing is, Sophie, so you speak for trans people. Yeah. What the percentage [00:27:35] of those compared to white men.

Speaker1: Yeah. But it’s more the fact that like they’re [00:27:40] a minority and they haven’t, they haven’t had a voice for a really long time.

Speaker4: Percentage of those in society is what [00:27:45] I don’t know what it is. What is.

Speaker1: It? I don’t know what it is either. I don’t know, I’m not a trans expert. [00:27:50] I just like advocate.

Speaker4: I’m just one less than 1%. Yeah. So if they’re less than [00:27:55] 1% are given a voice and then you’ve got men who [00:28:00] might be, I don’t know, underprivileged men might be 20% haven’t got a voice. [00:28:05] That’s where it’s come from.

Speaker3: Yeah, perhaps. Perhaps. And that’s why they gravitate towards people like Jordan Peterson [00:28:10] as well. You know, like which I know is a massively like, controversial figure and interestingly, [00:28:15] somewhat um, um, he said some really rogue things. What did he say? Oh, [00:28:20] this is not for this podcast. The rogue things, trust me. Um, basically. But who [00:28:25] is piers Morgan was actually interviewing Jordan Peterson. And I know, like the one thing about [00:28:30] Piers Morgan that I appreciate is that he just gives a platform to different voices. [00:28:35] And recently, like, I know that like a lot of people don’t like him, and I completely can see why. But I [00:28:40] think over like only very recently, I’m like the person that he put like for example, like, as you [00:28:45] know, like I’m from an ethnic minority. And he recently allowed like a big YouTuber who was like from [00:28:50] Egypt, um, to come on there, that would normally be considered quite controversial. And he has like he [00:28:55] had a voice, you know, for the Middle East anyway. So when he came on there, he said to Jordan, he’s like, you sound [00:29:00] like you’re the voice of like, sad, lonely white men. He actually said that. So as you were saying that, [00:29:05] I was like, it’s kind of true. So they do have that voice in a way. You know, I do think that there is that sort of representation. [00:29:10] Um, one thing that I wanted to ask you, though, as well, is [00:29:15] that, you know, you’re very open about your mental health online. Do you feel over the last decade [00:29:20] that your mental health has become, you know, very difficult [00:29:25] because of being online? Or do you think it’s because of the difficulties of just growing up, as it were?

Speaker1: I [00:29:30] definitely online is a big trigger, and it has been a big trigger for me, I think, especially when, [00:29:35] like I said, my platform was growing a lot and I felt very overwhelmed. And even sometimes [00:29:40] it feels I don’t really get a lot of bad comments anymore.

Speaker3: But [00:29:45] I think it’s because you call them out and I admire you for it. Because even when you get like the negative nellies, you’ll [00:29:50] screenshot it and be like, and today is like winner is.

Speaker1: You know what? I’ve actually stopped [00:29:55] doing that as much because I actually felt like I was feeding it more. And I mean, [00:30:00] very much so, like this kind of very transitional phase of my life where I usually call a lot of stuff [00:30:05] out, but now I’m a little bit like I’m very picky and choosy with it because I’m like, actually, do I really want to spend my [00:30:10] energy on that? Or do I just want to just let that go? Like, unless it’s like really bad and I feel like I really [00:30:15] need to like argue with my case. I feel a lot of people that come to you and complain about [00:30:20] things or have a go at you. It’s the thing is you’re you’re not going to change their minds. [00:30:25] And trying to change their mind is actually a total waste of your energy, and it’s not [00:30:30] worth it. So even the other day I posted about something and I got some shit [00:30:35] for it quite quickly, and I deleted the thing and I just instantly was just, I just, [00:30:40] I was like, I, I could get into an argument with this person or I could try and explain [00:30:45] myself, but I was like, there is no point because they’re never going to see my point of view.

Speaker1: They’re just not. That’s the thing. [00:30:50] And I just find in terms of my mental health, it’s really changed over the years. I’m [00:30:55] in a very good place with it now where I find it easier to let things go. But even now I find it [00:31:00] people. It’s just tick tock. People are so mean on TikTok. Like, I [00:31:05] don’t usually look at the comments either, but it’s just like when I have done, I’m like [00:31:10] are like, oh, and it takes me back to how I felt when my platform was first growing. And like, I would get [00:31:15] really mean comment about the fillers that I had back then. To be honest, my fillers were really awful back then anyway, [00:31:20] so I kind of deserved it. But it’s just it’s difficult. I recently so I, I’ve [00:31:25] gone through like bouts of depression over the years and I spent three years on [00:31:30] antidepressants, which I then, you know, came off and I’m really glad that I came off them.

Speaker3: Can you tell us a [00:31:35] little bit if you don’t mind sharing, though, do you, do you believe because we were talking about this, do you believe the antidepressants, in hindsight [00:31:40] masked your symptoms rather than got like to the root cause of them? [00:31:45] And do you think they had their place and would you take them again if you needed them?

Speaker1: Okay. Very, [00:31:50] very, very complicated. It’s a simple question but complicated answers and very conflicted feelings. So [00:31:55] I would absolutely personally try and avoid taking them again. And [00:32:00] this is simply because for me, after a while of being on them, they really numbed me out. [00:32:05] Um, I also gained a lot of weight on them, which [00:32:10] then I have, like I said, I have body image issues. And then that I went into really full blown body [00:32:15] dysmorphia where I was like then experiencing a whole different mental health issue, [00:32:20] and it was horrible. So I felt really out of control of my body. So [00:32:25] it was really difficult. So I was like, oh, what do I have? And I then actually came off them and [00:32:30] like, really? I was in Bali and I actually didn’t take enough with me and I was like, oh God, I’m going to have to [00:32:35] stop taking my antidepressants. And I was like, I’ll have them. I’ll wean myself off them. And then I just actually was fine. Like, I [00:32:40] didn’t really have any withdrawal symptoms. And I was in such a good place mentally because I’d been really doing the work, and I’d always [00:32:45] tried to do the work. I’d been in therapy for years, but I don’t know, something just felt different.

Speaker1: I [00:32:50] felt like something had shifted in me, and I really started looking into, like, more holistic ways. And I’m [00:32:55] never going to be one of those people who’s like, you’re going to heal everything holistically. But I will always try and be someone who will [00:33:00] heal something holistically first. And then after a few months of being off my [00:33:05] antidepressants, I then started noticing I was getting depressed again. But it would [00:33:10] last for like two weeks and then go away for two weeks and then would come back for two weeks and go away for two [00:33:15] weeks. And then it hit me in January last year. This, this year, um, [00:33:20] that I thought it was Pmdd, which is premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which is essentially [00:33:25] severe PMS. And it’s caused it’s not really known exactly exactly what causes it. Some [00:33:30] social and it’s like but basically it’s like having suicidal thoughts and tendencies and [00:33:35] ideations before your period. You, um, like, you can’t leave the house, you have no energy, [00:33:40] you have rage, you honestly become a monster. And it is it is like PMS [00:33:45] on steroids. And it it felt like someone just flipped a switch. One day in my brain, I’d [00:33:50] wake up and I’d be a different person.

Speaker1: And it was really scary. I used to actually feel like I was hallucinating, [00:33:55] like the walls were closing in on me and it got. A very scary to a point where my parents had to come down and [00:34:00] stay with me for a while because they were like, we can’t let you be alone. And I went and saw a specialist [00:34:05] and they were like, you know, there’s several routes of treatment. But once again, it was going to take me [00:34:10] back down to the antidepressant route. And I was just like, which actually I look back and I’m like, was [00:34:15] my antidepressants just masking Pmdd for years? Was I ever really depressed or did I [00:34:20] just have Pmdd? I don’t know, but either way, whatever happens, I just changed. Like my diet [00:34:25] and the supplements that I was taking. I started seeking holistic measures and getting acupuncture a few times a [00:34:30] month, and it completely changed everything. And it took a little while. [00:34:35] But like, I actually feel in control and even just knowing what it is, knowing like tracking [00:34:40] my cycle, knowing when it’s coming, I can feel I feel more in control of it. So if I have a I just manage my lifestyle [00:34:45] a little.

Speaker3: I totally agree, I think knowledge is power and I’m the same as well. Sorry. Pay. This is a very girly, [00:34:50] girly girly.

Speaker1: Like.

Speaker3: Route. But ultimately what I realised was is like [00:34:55] hormones. Hormones are the things that like really, really differentiate us. [00:35:00] Like it’s so it’s crazy like for women. And I’m sure you’ve seen this with your wife as [00:35:05] well. Like it really does control things. And it really even like my decision making process is completely [00:35:10] altered at like certain points now, having an app and knowing at what point I am in my [00:35:15] cycle has totally empowered me because like I said, if I’m like, why do I feel so crap today? And [00:35:20] like, the world is like caving in on me, and then I’ll look and I’ll be like, okay, I know I feel this way [00:35:25] because of this. I’m still feeling this way, but I know that this isn’t a permanent state, and I think there’s something [00:35:30] so powerful in that. It is.

Speaker1: It’s so true. And I think it’s it is one of these things that I think women’s [00:35:35] hormones have kind of been laughed off as like, oh my God, hormonal. And we do ourselves like, oh my [00:35:40] God. Yeah, I’m just pmsing. And like we, we do it to kind of like normalise it and just make it not seem like a big [00:35:45] deal, but it can be a really big deal. Do you guys.

Speaker4: Think do you guys think the stigma of talking about, [00:35:50] you know, PMS is a thing that we should get over and it should be that [00:35:55] you can you should be able to say, it’s my period and I’m not feeling like talking about this or [00:36:00] whatever. I think.

Speaker3: 100%. Do you know what you know? Like there are days I don’t know how bad Sophie’s get. Sophie’s [00:36:05] get Rs. But there are days where I really don’t want to turn up to stuff, and I almost feel like I [00:36:10] need, like if if we acknowledged it and validated it and I’m like, my PMS [00:36:15] or Pmdd is so bad today, I feel crippled. I don’t want to leave the house. That’s how I feel sometimes, but [00:36:20] I feel like I can’t say it because people will be like, get over yourself and take a paracetamol when it’s actually more complex than that. I literally [00:36:25] just want to be on the sofa doing nothing and like, brood. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker1: Like, you know, I think it’s actually really brilliant. [00:36:30] There is so much more conversations happening from, you know, like big celebrities and, you know, people [00:36:35] who are in like the medical industry talking about this and the impact of it. And I’m seeing it more and more, [00:36:40] even globally, like people speak in America, like Australia, talking about it. So it is getting [00:36:45] a lot more even like Pmdd was on it, like it had like a little feature on Emmerdale. One of the girls in Emmerdale [00:36:50] had. Yeah, I think it was Emmerdale. So it is getting more publicity, which is great.

Speaker4: Are you not conflicted about [00:36:55] it though, because you know, there’s a, there’s a misogynistic side that says, oh, women shouldn’t [00:37:00] be judges because what if they’re having a bad, you know, day? You know, in Islam it’s actually [00:37:05] written. It’s one of the things that’s written. So are you not conflicted by that? I’m quite conflicted [00:37:10] myself. Yeah. Because, you know, there are women I know, uh, very close to me who [00:37:15] I never know when, when, when it’s their period. And there’s women I know who [00:37:20] tell me every time that’s.

Speaker3: Gonna be me. Yeah.

Speaker4: But. And I’m a bit conflicted because. Because [00:37:25] to start with, I used to think, well, don’t tell me about it, you know, just handle your handle yourself. [00:37:30] Yeah. But then when you hear about the the stories of how bad it can be, like suicidal thoughts [00:37:35] once a month, I mean, it’s a ridiculous thing. Um, I didn’t know that. Yeah. And if that’s [00:37:40] a real thing that we should that should be we should accommodate. Yeah, that should be taught to boys and girls. [00:37:45] And then, you know, this is a real thing. Yeah. You know, it’s definitely such a weird.

Speaker1: It is, it is. It’s [00:37:50] my it was actually my dad who was the one who googled it and was like looking into it. My dad was like, oh my God, this is exactly what [00:37:55] Sophie has. And it was my dad who was like the biggest advocate for like me [00:38:00] seeing a specialist and seeing the right person about this and like, which really surprised [00:38:05] me because my dad’s like 70 years old. He’s like the most like typical straight white, like working [00:38:10] class guy from the Midlands ever. But it was really sweet and um, but yeah, it [00:38:15] is, but I do I feel I feel conflicted sometimes because I’ve always my mum on the other hand was always [00:38:20] there like, oh yeah, well it’s just hormones. You should be able to control your hormones and your emotions. Sophie and I just couldn’t [00:38:25] growing up. I found it really hard and like, there is a thing in my head where it’s like, [00:38:30] well, I should be able to. And I don’t like the fact that, like, I’m affected by this. Like, I [00:38:35] don’t like it and it makes me feel like a weaker person and it bothers me. Whereas now [00:38:40] it’s like I’m just like, you know what? Stop trying to fight it and just go with it. And like, if I’m having like, [00:38:45] I like I said, I don’t get the suicidal thoughts anymore.

Speaker1: Like, I don’t get this and that because there is [00:38:50] whatever I’m taking now to help. And like the acupuncture, it has just alleviated [00:38:55] everything. It’s managed it and it’s amazing and I haven’t. Had to take anything else, but a lot of women get it worse. The only thing I [00:39:00] would say about talking about it I found like people suggested forums, [00:39:05] they were like, oh, look on this forum on Reddit and look on this like join this Facebook support group. Oh my [00:39:10] God, it was hell. It was because everyone was talking about like the worst parts of it. And it made me feel [00:39:15] worse. And it made me feel scared. It made me feel really, really scared and negative. Yeah. And then if [00:39:20] someone shared a success story being like, oh, I’ve been taking these supplements and I’ve been doing this and this has helped, [00:39:25] people would kind of then like shit on it and be like, oh, well, good for you. I’m having to [00:39:30] take because HRT is one of the treatments for it. Yeah. So some people and like if it gets that bad, some people [00:39:35] have to have a hysterectomy. So it’s really severe. But like but how.

Speaker4: How far should [00:39:40] we take it? Rona, if your nurse calls in and says I can’t come in today because it’s my.

Speaker3: Listen, I’m very. [00:39:45]

Speaker4: Listen by the.

Speaker3: Way I think I think look listen it’s very different right. As in like, you know, now being [00:39:50] an employer, I have a lot of empathy because in a way it’s part of mental [00:39:55] health. And I have so much empathy for mental health because I and, you [00:40:00] know, I still struggle with being open in terms of like when I don’t want to turn up to things. I really struggle [00:40:05] with actually telling people, you know, I’m not I’m talking about social things. There are days where I’m like, I have such [00:40:10] bad anxiety, I don’t actually want to go. But I forced myself to go. And that’s again because I’ve been conditioned, [00:40:15] like you said, like pull yourself out of it sort of attitude, when actually it’s probably really healthy [00:40:20] for me to just sit with the emotions at home. Like, I’m not saying like sit there and be in a depressive state, [00:40:25] but, you know, sometimes just sitting with the emotions can be okay for you. And don’t get me wrong, sometimes [00:40:30] going out and actually that was really nice to see my friends and like, you know what I mean? Get into that. But [00:40:35] mental health in the workplace with my job. Um, some people I [00:40:40] think have been abusing it, I think because they’ve been like, they know that the conversation’s more open. [00:40:45] They’ve been like, I’m going to use this as an excuse not to come in when I know they don’t really [00:40:50] suffer with that. But obviously because I know because.

Speaker4: I hear, you know, I hear you, I hear you.

Speaker3: No, no, no, because [00:40:55] it will be a character that I’ve worked with. And I know that they’ve been binge drinking and gone [00:41:00] to like, a Hindu, and suddenly they call up for mental health when you’re like, you’re just hung over, you know what I mean? [00:41:05]

Speaker4: The thing is, the thing is, yeah, in these situations, either the employee is going [00:41:10] to get one over on the employer or the other way around, like if you’re too hard on [00:41:15] it. Yeah. There’ll be times where you, you actually make people come in or, or make but I.

Speaker3: Don’t, but I [00:41:20] don’t, but I never do, but I never do.

Speaker4: So so what I’m saying is I would rather my employee gets one [00:41:25] over on me. I would rather a few employees cheat. Yeah. Then my [00:41:30] actual suffering employee isn’t her. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Speaker3: But that’s that’s that’s already [00:41:35] it. Because I never question it is my point. You know, like, I sometimes you have a hunch because you really know sort [00:41:40] of the type of person. But I never question it because I have such a strong [00:41:45] like view. And I get frustrated because I feel people still around me don’t aren’t empathetic [00:41:50] to my own situation, you know? So I would never do that, you know, and I think that that’s like [00:41:55] really important, as I said, like people having open conversations like Sophie does all the time about this [00:42:00] stuff is always like a great comfort because I’m like conversations being open. And I know how many people you reach, you know, [00:42:05] through those conversations. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker4: Can I ask you, Sophie? Sorry. There was something you said [00:42:10] on the podcast that I listened to about travelling alone. Yeah. And [00:42:15] also about this is the one I’m really interested in eating alone in restaurants.

Speaker1: Yeah. [00:42:20]

Speaker4: And is that a worry? Like, would you not eat alone in a restaurant?

Speaker1: I would, [00:42:25] but I don’t. I don’t think I’d go out for dinner in London just because, I don’t know. I just feel like I just it’s [00:42:30] more just because, like, I like being at home and I’m like, I don’t know if I could be bothered to go out for dinner. If [00:42:35] I was out and I was hungry, I would do it, but I wouldn’t take myself out because I’m like, I like to, I [00:42:40] love, I love to cook and I’m like, why would I take myself out and spend £40 on a nice dinner and a drink?

Speaker4: Listen, [00:42:45] let’s say you were in another town or something and you, you were on your own. Would you, would you order [00:42:50] delivery to your hotel or would you go, like.

Speaker3: If you’re in Paris, for.

Speaker4: Example? Oh, let’s let’s [00:42:55] leave that to one. If you did go out by yourself in, in Manchester, how [00:43:00] is it that you feel that do you feel people are looking at you thinking, is she on her own?

Speaker1: Yeah, sometimes, yeah. [00:43:05] I feel like it feels a bit more weird in the UK. I’d feel weirder about it in Manchester than I would [00:43:10] in London. Probably so funny because honestly, no, I agree. Well, I grew up in Leicester and there was this very weird [00:43:15] judgement around, like doing anything by yourself, I remember. No, honestly, I [00:43:20] went shopping. I remember I was like, I had the afternoon off college and I went shopping and my boyfriend at the time was like, [00:43:25] oh, are you going shopping with? And I was like, oh, I’m just going by myself. And he was like, that’s so embarrassing. Why would you [00:43:30] go shopping by yourself? That’s so weird and embarrassing. So maybe obviously things like this have ingrained it [00:43:35] in my head that it’s embarrassing to do things alone. And I feel a lot of people have maybe had similar things, but [00:43:40] it’s something that I’m now like, I’m questioning a lot because it’s just like I’m the kind of [00:43:45] person that if I feel a certain way, I like to ask myself why I feel that way. Yeah. And like, challenge myself.

Speaker4: You’re [00:43:50] sitting in this restaurant by yourself, eating, reading a book. You actually thinking that person [00:43:55] thinks I’m. What?

Speaker1: No, I’m. So this is this is a thing. It’s it’s the I often [00:44:00] people, including myself, we’re more worried about the idea of something than the reality of something. [00:44:05] So that’s the thing. Like, I feel like in reality I’d be like, this is very nice. [00:44:10] This is really chill. I don’t give a fuck. Whereas like the idea of it, I’m like, oh, like, that makes me feel [00:44:15] like, oh no, what if people look at me? So yeah, it’s just kind of I’m kind of in this like period of unpicking [00:44:20] myself from caring so much about what people think, whilst also kind of having a job where [00:44:25] it’s kind of my job for people. Yes, exactly. It’s conflicting. I feel like my life is like [00:44:30] a constant conflict of what about you.

Speaker4: Um, by yourself in a restaurant?

Speaker3: Do you worry about do you know what [00:44:35] I had? It’s so funny, right? Because I have always [00:44:40] said to myself, it’s so important to be comfortable on your own. And [00:44:45] my journey was a little bit different because I had I was one of those tick box like [00:44:50] life plan people. So basically, like, I went to school and I knew I wanted to nail my A-levels and GCSEs because I needed [00:44:55] to get into dentistry. So I wasn’t interested in having a boyfriend. So like, we hung out with like boys schools, [00:45:00] but I really wasn’t distracted by boys. Does that make sense? Because I was like, I just want to like, nail my exams. [00:45:05] Then I was like, I’m going to find my boyfriend at uni and then I’m going to be married by the time I’m 30. Like, you know, like all those like [00:45:10] BS, you know, 36 now, not married. But anyway, I basically then decided, [00:45:15] um, that when I went to university I was [00:45:20] like already like so happy, like being on my own. And then I had a few heartbreaks [00:45:25] in university, and I kind of, like set out on this mission of, like, being really comfortable on your own. And one of the challenges [00:45:30] was like doing stuff on your own. I remember at university, I went to the theatre on my own because I thought that was [00:45:35] a really, like, brave thing to do, you know, kind of like towards the end of university.

Speaker3: But [00:45:40] the whole time I kept thinking, it’s so important to be on your own. It wasn’t [00:45:45] like I enjoyed the theatre on my own. I just kept thinking, you have to do this, you know what I mean? [00:45:50] Whereas now I actually don’t have a problem. But like, as Sophie said, say I’m like, [00:45:55] out and about and then I’m like, I’m hungry. I’ll go and get dinner on my own. I don’t really mind, but [00:46:00] more likely I will probably sit on my phone or call a friend whilst I’m on dinner, which is not really being on your [00:46:05] own. Would I go and sit in Nobu on my own? Probably not. You know what I mean? Because I think [00:46:10] that also those sorts of things are like shared experiences, but it’s not so much. I’m like thinking of people [00:46:15] looking at me. But you’re right, like different places in London, if you’re sat on your own in Nobu, people [00:46:20] are going to be like, oh my God, she gets stood up. That’s probably what people think, you know what I mean? In a swanky restaurant. Whereas if you’re [00:46:25] having like Pret at 6 p.m. on your own, I think people would think about it and I’d be completely fine with it. Do [00:46:30] you see what I mean?

Speaker4: I think it goes further than that. I mean, I think I think it’s like a by extension, [00:46:35] the question of should you be married by a certain age? Should you have kids?

Speaker3: I love those things [00:46:40] because Sophie’s also been like a beacon of like, truth for me in this sense.

Speaker4: You know, all of those things. I just [00:46:45] didn’t realise there was such a thing anymore. I think they.

Speaker3: Are a thing. What do you think? I mean, look, do you think [00:46:50] that women nowadays feel the pressure [00:46:55] and stigma to do things by a certain age? Or do you think it’s become less?

Speaker1: It’s definitely become less. Yeah. I don’t think [00:47:00] it is as much of a thing, but I think it comes probably more so. I think it’s a family thing [00:47:05] because I, I’m really lucky. My parents are very chill. They’re like, don’t get married, sorry, don’t have [00:47:10] children, don’t do any of that. Like, you know, they just want me to focus on myself, which is great. [00:47:15] But it’s really weird. Then when I speak to friends that are the same age of me and they’re like, [00:47:20] oh, don’t you don’t your parents are really pressurise you to get married. Aren’t your parents like, oh, when are you getting married? [00:47:25] Come on, clock’s ticking. And I’m like, no, they are the opposite. So I feel a lot of my friends. [00:47:30] The pressure comes from their family, who may be a bit more traditional, so I [00:47:35] think, but I definitely think it’s a lot. The pressure is a lot less than it was before because people are kind of [00:47:40] making their own path. So yeah.

Speaker3: And why do you think that is? Like for example, [00:47:45] from from your point of view, uh, do you want to get married? Do you care for it? No, [00:47:50] no. And why did you kind of come to that decision? It was.

Speaker1: Really weird. I found my diary from last [00:47:55] year at the start of, like last year, and it was like, oh, what my goals are in the next like ten years. And one [00:48:00] of them was like to get engaged and married to a man that I really love. This was what, like it [00:48:05] just over 18 months ago. And now I’m so anti the idea of getting married because [00:48:10] you know what? No I’m not. If I felt like it was important to my partner I’d be like it’s [00:48:15] not that I’m anti I just don’t care. I don’t see how it benefits me really like [00:48:20] that much. I don’t want to have children if it benefits me in like a guest, like a financial way, then [00:48:25] sure. Why not? Like but if I don’t really feel like I need to do it.

Speaker4: To [00:48:30] make an active decision that you don’t want children or it’s never you’ve never felt.

Speaker1: I’ve never. I’ve never wanted, [00:48:35] I never wanted them. And I just always assumed that as I got older, I would want to have them. And I get further [00:48:40] from it all the time, like further and further from it. And I just, I, I have, I [00:48:45] have a dog and that’s, that’s difficult enough and I love him, but I hate the fact that there’s something so that’s [00:48:50] so reliant on me. Um, it’s stressful. It’s very stressful, [00:48:55] and I can’t I know, I know how. How much I love and how much I give. And I give everything [00:49:00] of myself to others around me. And I the thought of having to give that to a child [00:49:05] and for for the rest of my life is actually [00:49:10] like, really a terrifying thought. Like, I just, I’m so happy in my own life, I don’t feel like I need I [00:49:15] think.

Speaker3: I think that’s really important as well. Payman because as you were saying, like, again, society has been like because [00:49:20] women can reproduce, they should reproduce. Whereas there are some women that really resent [00:49:25] having children or really resent, you know, not everyone loves, um, you [00:49:30] know, the thought of being a mother. Not everyone wants to be a mother.

Speaker4: I’ve, [00:49:35] you know, having employed a bunch of people, I’ve, I’ve had people say that and [00:49:40] now have three kids. So I’ve seen I’ve seen the transition. But you’re absolutely [00:49:45] right in that the decision to be single or the decision to [00:49:50] not have children should be put on the same status as the decision to get married and have [00:49:55] 2.4 children. Yeah. There’s no reason why one should be better than the other at all, because [00:50:00] in the time that I’m feeding my baby, you could be feeding the hungry in, in, [00:50:05] you know, wherever in Africa, you know. You know what I mean? There’s not one is not better than the other. Yeah. It’s just, you [00:50:10] know, a different choice in life, a different ways of living.

Speaker1: Definitely, definitely. And I think that’s the thing I think people need to remember. [00:50:15] Like, it is, it is. It’s a choice that people make. And like, I, I don’t want kids, [00:50:20] but I want my friends to have kids. I don’t want to have a life without children in it. I want to be able to, like, meet my friend’s children and [00:50:25] have that. Yeah, I just want to be able to give them back at the end of the day and just like, not have to worry about it. [00:50:30] So yeah, I think it’s really beautiful. But choice is important and respecting others choices is important too. [00:50:35] Yeah.

Speaker3: So tell me something, Sophie, how do you handle. We talked a little bit about [00:50:40] people giving their, like unsolicited advice and opinions. But how do you handle feedback? [00:50:45] Do you think that there is a difference between critique, criticism and feedback? And how? If [00:50:50] so, how do you handle it?

Speaker1: Absolutely. I feel you definitely put it into different boxes here. There’s people who just [00:50:55] want to criticise you and get a reaction and make you feel bad, whereas there’s people who will [00:51:00] give you feedback and you know what? There may be an element of kind of like a gotcha kind [00:51:05] of thing with it, especially if you’re a content creator or someone with a platform who speaks [00:51:10] about certain things and speaks about issues. People. I think people assume that [00:51:15] you have like you believe that you’re more morally superior. So if you say something [00:51:20] or get something wrong and they want to criticise you on it, they kind of people tend to revel in it a [00:51:25] little bit. Yeah, like I ha, I got you like you made a mistake. I’m in dentistry. Yeah, yeah I [00:51:30] bet. And I had it the other day. I said, I, um, I actually kind of like I [00:51:35] sent out an email without really thinking, um, too much. It was a newsletter and I got [00:51:40] a couple responses from it being like, oh, this was a little bit like kind of too focussed at [00:51:45] straight people.

Speaker1: It wasn’t very inclusive. And you know what? Like, even though, like that kind of bit of criticism [00:51:50] was like, oh no. Like it was like a knife in my heart. And I felt like I’d really messed up. It was actually [00:51:55] pretty fair criticism to for them to give. And I just said, like, I’m like, [00:52:00] you know, thank you for like, opening my eyes to this. Like, this was actually like, I really appreciate it. And I [00:52:05] would never, ever want to make anyone feel excluded because ultimately, as annoying as it can be when someone criticises [00:52:10] you, that kind of criticism, I know, comes from a good place of being [00:52:15] like, you know, like I want to be included. Yeah, exactly. Or I felt excluded by this. And it’s just [00:52:20] like, I’m not that kind of person that ever wants anyone to feel excluded. So I’m like, you know, I’ll take that on board. But sometimes [00:52:25] when it’s criticism, when someone’s just being mean, it’s just when it’s that kind of criticism. [00:52:30] I just I just have to ignore it.

Speaker3: I literally said earlier before you left [00:52:35] because I was saying that I was getting some hate online, um, earlier on this week, and someone said, [00:52:40] I’m unfollowing immediately. And I literally wanted to reply and say, this isn’t an airport. You [00:52:45] don’t need to announce your departure, love. You know, like, I just don’t get it. Like, you know, like, shut up, [00:52:50] you know, like and people feel that they they need to tell you that, like, as if also because [00:52:55] of.

Speaker4: Virtue signalling in it. And I think there’s virtue signalling in the comment you had as well. Right. [00:53:00] Yeah. I think even though even though you think that it might have been, you know, some, you know, okay. But you [00:53:05] know, it’s a funny thing because social media has got the comment section. Yeah. [00:53:10] That’s what makes it social. Yeah. And uh, we like the nice bits. We also don’t like [00:53:15] don’t like the criticism. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a weird situation we’re in that [00:53:20] anyone. One thing we’ve discussed a lot on, on this, uh, platform is the idea that [00:53:25] sometimes a fashion influencer isn’t allowed to [00:53:30] also be deep.

Speaker3: So true.

Speaker4: Or a dentist isn’t allowed to be shallow. [00:53:35]

Speaker3: Yeah. It’s like it’s like I can’t talk about fashion, apparently, because I’m a dentist, but it’s like, but this [00:53:40] is.

Speaker1: This is the issue. And this is what I said to a couple of my friends. I think that society [00:53:45] still has an issue with women being more than one thing. They like to put women in boxes. [00:53:50] It’s like, oh, you need to be like hot and pretty, but you don’t need to have an opinion. You need to be. You need [00:53:55] to be the smart, intelligent dentist. But. Like, not hot. I don’t want I don’t want to see your outfit and how, like, cool [00:54:00] your outfit is and your hair, like, you know, you shouldn’t be showing that. And I think even though women can be more than [00:54:05] one thing, I think I think people have an issue with it and I feel like they’re like, oh, but it makes me feel more comfortable seeing [00:54:10] you as this. So it is, it is. People think it’s just.

Speaker4: Women, you know, like I was I was I was talking about, [00:54:15] uh, I used to think a guy who’s really into sports isn’t into politics. [00:54:20]

Speaker1: It’s true. Because we have we.

Speaker3: Had we had someone on this podcast that’s really into [00:54:25] sort of like sculpting his body. Yeah. Um, but he’s actually really intelligent as well. And I think, [00:54:30] like, again, we have that stigma of like gym bros. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you’re somebody who and I think [00:54:35] that it’s really funny as well because there’s also and this is something I want to delve [00:54:40] into you as a strong woman, I’ve always been attracted [00:54:45] to strong women. So that’s why I gravitate to women like you. And it’s really funny because [00:54:50] Payman told me a few weeks ago that a certain female didn’t want [00:54:55] to come on this podcast. Look, she’s like, dying, didn’t. Okay, okay, fine, [00:55:00] fine, fine. I won’t bring up. Okay, so so so I’ve been told before, there’s certain [00:55:05] females.

Speaker4: I don’t see you as a strong, strong woman.

Speaker3: Thanks. So he winds me [00:55:10] up. He winds me up. He was.

Speaker4: What do you think? Being a strong woman is like a no.

Speaker3: But, you know, I’ve [00:55:15] been told before that like certain, certain females who I have no idea who they are, by the way, [00:55:20] will be like, oh, Rona doesn’t stand up for female rights or Rona doesn’t. And like, I’m such a kind [00:55:25] of like, cheerleader as well, by the way. And it’s and I don’t even know who they are out.

Speaker4: Of the ordinary. [00:55:30] You’re out of the ordinary. Yeah.

Speaker3: But what does that even mean? See what I mean? You know. No no, no.

Speaker4: Yeah. [00:55:35] You are you’re you’re an outlier. Yeah.

Speaker3: But I think for a dentist, for a, for a dentist because Sophie [00:55:40] doesn’t know the context. And like you said, like people want to, like box doctors and dentists into this thing. [00:55:45] They want to.

Speaker1: Box everyone up. Yeah, because it makes it easier.

Speaker3: It makes me really. But what I was going to ask you [00:55:50] as well is like, obviously like you’re a girls girl, you’ve got loads of female friends, so have I. But do you not find [00:55:55] that sometimes there’s criticism from women that feel that they don’t have a voice in a way, I don’t [00:56:00] even know how to put it. I don’t know what I mean, but I think you know what I mean. As in women that feel that they’re not like putting themselves [00:56:05] out there, and then they feel entitled to critique what we’re doing as if we’re arrogant. [00:56:10] Yeah. Do you see what I mean?

Speaker1: Yeah, I think so. I think there’s well, I guess it kind of comes down to internalised [00:56:15] misogyny. A lot of the time it feels like, you know, women, women hating on other women for being successful [00:56:20] and stuff.

Speaker4: Okay, listen. Listen to this, man. I have a son and a daughter. I drive them around. [00:56:25] Yeah. The conversations that I hear in the back of the car with my daughter and [00:56:30] her friends, and compare that to the conversation I hear in the back of the car with my son and his friends. [00:56:35] You know, women. The girl on girl sort of aggression is gigantic, [00:56:40] man. And my, my, my daughter isn’t that kind of girl. I thought, yeah, but they just [00:56:45] the girl on girl aggression is just a thing. It’s part of. It’s who we are. You know, I think that there’s an we [00:56:50] need to kind of accept that to some extent as well.

Speaker3: This is the thing I want to ask Sophie. So Sophie just, you [00:56:55] know, for people that don’t understand, can you explain what internalised misogyny is?

Speaker1: It’s basically when [00:57:00] I’m probably gonna really, like, mess up the explanation. So misogyny is obviously like the hatred of, [00:57:05] of of women. And, um, eternalised misogyny is when women hate on other [00:57:10] women, but it kind of comes from things that are essentially sort of set a lot of the time by men, but it’s essentially women [00:57:15] hating on other.

Speaker4: Women, a self-hating.

Speaker1: Woman. Yeah, it’s just women hate and women. But there is there’s [00:57:20] a lot of it. And it’s a real shame because it’s like sometimes like the issue is I the majority of criticism, [00:57:25] I get that, you know, obviously most of the people who follow me are women, like 87% [00:57:30] or something. So obviously the majority of criticism will be from women. But it is you, I [00:57:35] think I think the issue is and this this comes back to what I said not too long ago, I [00:57:40] really like to challenge the way that I see things, and if I feel a certain way, I like to challenge myself [00:57:45] and be like, well, why do I feel like that is correct? If why am I triggered? Yeah, exactly. And I remember I first did this [00:57:50] years ago. I must have been 22. I was working in a Mexican restaurant whilst doing my master’s degree and I finished [00:57:55] like two in the morning. It was a really late shift walking home and these girls are walking through Soho looking amazing. [00:58:00] Three girls, tall, beautiful, stunning. And I was there wearing like this awful, like Mexican [00:58:05] covered food everywhere, smelling badly. And these guys [00:58:10] walked by and I just went. I just said in my head I went slags. And I caught myself. And it was like, [00:58:15] why did I say that? To like, I didn’t say it to them, but I said it in my head and I was like, I [00:58:20] said that in my head because these three beautiful, confident women are going on a night out [00:58:25] and they’re going to have a really nice time.

Speaker1: They look amazing. I’ve just finished a 12 hour shift [00:58:30] and I look and feel like crap, and it’s a jealousy and an envy thing. And I was like, this is really [00:58:35] uncomfortable and horrible and I don’t like that. I did that and I started picking it apart [00:58:40] and I would notice myself doing it and then was like, no, I need to change it. And it’s something that I really changed over [00:58:45] the years. Yeah. And it’s something I really changed over this. Sometimes it even gets me now. Like if I see [00:58:50] like another influencer on a really cool press trip and I’m like, ah, bitch. But I’m like, like, that’s [00:58:55] coming from jealousy and envy. Do the work. Yes, it’s a problem, but unfortunately a lot [00:59:00] of people will do that. And they’re either they’re not self-aware enough to recognise it, or they [00:59:05] just simply won’t ever admit it because they don’t want to admit that the issue they feel triggered in themselves, and [00:59:10] that seeing someone be, I don’t know, like loud or cringey or whatever [00:59:15] online, it makes them feel this way in themselves. And that’s what I’m.

Speaker3: Trying to say to [00:59:20] you. So you might not think that, but like, I put myself out there, whatever you think. So when I get the criticism [00:59:25] from the other female dentists, I’m like, but why are you hating on me? That’s a you problem. [00:59:30] Because what I’m doing is not necessarily hugely controversial. You know, let’s put out there. So this [00:59:35] is a you problem and you may justify the you problem by inflicting and projecting on me. [00:59:40] And the thing is, I’m really good at the self reflection as well, because as Sophie was saying, when I catch [00:59:45] myself being triggered, I’m like, why am I triggered? You know, why am I triggered by that? [00:59:50] Oh, okay, I must be going through something for this reason, and I’ve got to stop. I’ve [00:59:55] got to stop myself in my tracks. Also, I’ve got enough self-awareness to know that if something [01:00:00] is triggering me, I don’t need to troll them or comment on it just to make them feel bad. To make myself feel better, [01:00:05] I will just mute the story or the post.

Speaker4: You know, there’s a positive side and a [01:00:10] negative side to everything. Yeah. And so the positive side of this thing that we’re [01:00:15] talking about is like empathy. Yeah. If you feel things [01:00:20] yeah you’ll feel bad things as well. Whereas men don’t do this because we just don’t [01:00:25] have that level of, you know, the wave going so high and so low. Sure. We’re just we’re just not feeling [01:00:30] much at all. Yeah, yeah. Feelings. Not our thing. Sure. Yeah. So maybe, maybe that’s that. But what I’m saying is [01:00:35] like because I see it in my daughter, you know, the 13. Yeah. I can see what I’m saying is [01:00:40] part of being a woman. Yeah. To have these things. And of course, [01:00:45] it shouldn’t be toxic. We should know it about ourselves. And what you said there was just beautiful, [01:00:50] the self-awareness of where is this coming from? And recognising that it’s coming from [01:00:55] a place of jealousy or or self-pity is a beautiful, beautiful way of [01:01:00] looking at it. Because you’re right. I don’t think there’s many people who don’t know, you know, just with anger, let’s say.

Speaker3: And [01:01:05] Sophie, do you feel ever pressure to talk about things [01:01:10] online? Because I think with the rise of influencers, we know that they have more weight and gravitas [01:01:15] even than certain celebrities. Um, again, we had another content creator on [01:01:20] the, um, on this platform before, and he had said, you know, like, actually most people now, [01:01:25] like, young people say that they’re people they aspire to be like or people they look up to [01:01:30] are actually content creators, which is great because I think you have the you have the ability [01:01:35] to change the narrative. But do you feel that you have to now talk about [01:01:40] every single kind of relevant issue, or do you feel that you’re pressured by your [01:01:45] audience to do so? I definitely feel.

Speaker1: Like it can be a lot of pressure. I if certain things happen, [01:01:50] I will sometimes be have people be like, oh, have you not seen about this? Have you not seen it? Like, [01:01:55] why haven’t you posted about this? And you can get a lot of pressure. But the thing is, for me, I speak about the things [01:02:00] that I’m knowledgeable about and also that I’m passionate about. And also I think people do forget [01:02:05] that creators are we’re not [01:02:10] news outlets. We’re not. And also, like, we don’t have the facilities to fact [01:02:15] check everything. And there is so much misinformation that spreads online these days. And I’ve seen so [01:02:20] many influencers post misinformation recently and like it actually is really [01:02:25] harmful. And it’s once again, this, this, this is all about like conflicting issues because [01:02:30] it’s like, I feel like there should be if you speak about something, you [01:02:35] should probably speak about things, but then also at the same time, you have the right to not speak about [01:02:40] it like it’s at the end of the day. Yes, influencers have a lot of power, [01:02:45] but what? That power can be really severely misdirected and sharing the wrong thing. [01:02:50]

Speaker3: I think there’s responsibility, which is what you’re saying, and people don’t recognise that whilst their [01:02:55] platforms carry weight and gravitas, there comes responsibility with that. And like [01:03:00] you said, if you post something that’s incorrect, it can cause more damage than good [01:03:05] and you can actually cause more harm to people. So I think that that comes that recognition and [01:03:10] I think, you know, I probably don’t get it as much as you, but I still get a lot of pressure. Rona post. This [01:03:15] Rona post is saying sometimes they want me to post about something so random in a country I haven’t even heard [01:03:20] of. Do you know what I mean? I’m like, listen, guys like and I hate. I don’t like people dictating [01:03:25] what I should and shouldn’t be posting. I consider myself to be a fair and humanitarian person. [01:03:30] But also my stance is, is that as a medical professional, I have responsibility [01:03:35] and I’ve undertaken an oath. So the way that I provide information should [01:03:40] always be somewhat fair. Does that make sense? And that’s why I like to think to myself. And it’s funny because then I get people [01:03:45] be like, you’re too neutral on this. Yeah. You’re not taking enough of a stand. Yeah. And I’m like, [01:03:50] no, hang on a second. You know, if you’re an intelligent person, you can kind of read between the lines. But just because I’m not saying [01:03:55] like this. Person is awful or this is this. You know, it doesn’t mean that [01:04:00] I’m not, you know, drawing attention. But as you said, I’ll only put out stuff that I know with [01:04:05] confidence is true.

Speaker1: Yeah, I’m completely with you on that. And I feel I also, you [01:04:10] know what, me being the kind of, like, positive person that I am, and I try and always look for the good in people. I [01:04:15] think there’s two I think there’s two sides of looking at it. I think, you know, you touched on virtue signalling earlier. [01:04:20] I think there is an element of virtue signalling, signalling in it and that can come from some [01:04:25] people. I do also think that sometimes it comes from a frustration, [01:04:30] whereas you might have somebody who has 20 followers on Instagram who works a very regular [01:04:35] job and feels very, you know, there’s something going on and they want to be able [01:04:40] to talk about it. And they’re they’re looking at me being like, why is she not speaking about this? Or if I had that [01:04:45] platform, I would, and they feel quite helpless. So it’s almost them. They’re kind of directing their [01:04:50] feelings of helplessness and frustration out on, on me and other content creators [01:04:55] for not talking about it, and that I feel like quite obviously like forgiving and understanding of like I get [01:05:00] that like so I always try and be understanding of it. But I do feel like sometimes virtue signalling [01:05:05] can come into it. But either way, I always try and post as much as I can about things that I understand [01:05:10] and that I’m aware about, but there are limits to it. And also, I do [01:05:15] feel like at the end of the day, content creators, you can’t do your job like it’s [01:05:20] not necessarily your job to share these things. It’s not. And also like you’ve got to kind [01:05:25] of put yourself first because we are individuals. And if you’re not operating okay up here for yourself, [01:05:30] you’re not going to be able to like do anything else that you’re going to start falling apart. So you do always have to put yourself [01:05:35] first. So it’s a real it’s a real difficult one. I feel really conflicted a lot of times with these things.

Speaker4: What [01:05:40] about when I mean, you’re a fashion influencer. Yeah. What about when the issue is within fashion? [01:05:45] Then do you not feel like there in that situation you have to say where you stand [01:05:50] on it? I mean, there was that thing with I don’t know. Yeah. Such a question or something.

Speaker3: Yeah. Like with Balenciaga [01:05:55] or even like environmental issues. Yeah.

Speaker1: So I you know what, if anything, it’s harder to speak [01:06:00] about it when it’s fashion because at the end of the day, my brand partnerships are with brands. So it’s like as a, as [01:06:05] a essentially like an advertiser. I have to be very careful with what I say, unless [01:06:10] it’s something obviously really bad. But you have to sort of maybe stay kind of relatively neutral [01:06:15] because you’ve got to otherwise if you’re if you’re there, like speaking really critically about a lot [01:06:20] of things, you’re not going to be good for business. It’s not good for it’s not it’s not good for if it’s obviously something that I [01:06:25] really care about. I would like the Balenciaga thing. I spoke a bit about that, but my my perspective [01:06:30] on that was just like, I just felt really like it was really bad, but I felt I just felt bad for [01:06:35] the people who had spent a lot of money and like on the designers and people who weren’t necessarily rich but had [01:06:40] saved up money to buy things. And then now they felt like, you know, their items [01:06:45] felt worthless and they felt like they, you know, dirty wearing these things, like, you know, these girls who’d [01:06:50] spent all their money on their triple S trainers and their like bags and they were like, I can’t wear it now because [01:06:55] of all the controversy.

Speaker1: And I was just like, it’s stuff like that. It’s not fair. So I kind of if I’m going to speak on those issues, [01:07:00] I’ll kind of speak about, I feel like there has to be [01:07:05] some kind of like balance. Yeah, balance to it, definitely. But then I feel like that with a lot of things sometimes [01:07:10] I’ve kind of thought about things a bit more recently and been like, I have to make sure I kind of stay [01:07:15] relatively brand safe in a way, because I don’t want to ever put myself in a situation. [01:07:20] I want to be able to stand up for the things that I care about, and I will always do that. But also sometimes it’s like, and [01:07:25] this goes across the board, whether it’s issues that I’m talking about or even just making a joke about something, [01:07:30] I’m like, I have to actually remember, I have a platform and like people see what I do and that means [01:07:35] brands. It means possible business. So like, you know, you have to be you have to really think about what [01:07:40] you’re putting out there.

Speaker3: So you know what? Sorry, from a Dental medical point of view, like recently [01:07:45] I went I got invited as a plus one with one of my friends as a content creator. She took me to an event and [01:07:50] then she was like, oh my God, there’s this girl here. She’s really awful. And I was like, okay, what’s she done? She was like, she’s the kind of person [01:07:55] that got all this free skin laser treatment because she’s got acne at this clinic and then, like, did [01:08:00] her whole journey. And then she went and slated the clinic really badly. And then she was like. And then [01:08:05] was like, oh, guys, I started a new clinic. Follow my journey. It was really transparent. It was also really [01:08:10] bad because obviously people got really angry because they were like, you’re ruining like another, a small person’s [01:08:15] business, basically. And I was like, it’s really hard because, you know, like now with the [01:08:20] type of partnerships as we know, like where like people will go and like review treatments for free, [01:08:25] right? But then you don’t know, like, but then say they do have a bad experience in a way, they [01:08:30] want to be honest with their audience. But there’s a fine line, right? But then you don’t want to ruin that small [01:08:35] person’s business. And also you want to make sure that you’re doing it in a way that’s like fair. [01:08:40] Do you know what I mean? But like you said, she did a disservice to herself because loads of people didn’t [01:08:45] want to work with her after that because they were like, if you can go and do that because I think it was the way she did it. [01:08:50]

Speaker1: Yeah, it’s quite funny because you know what? It’s the way you do. It does really, really matter. [01:08:55] And like on that. One of the place that I go and get my hair done at. They’re amazing. They do [01:09:00] incredible hair extensions, and they were one of one of the women who works the salon were like, oh yeah, we were a little bit scared to work [01:09:05] with you because you’re so honest about everything. We were like, if we mess up her hair, she’s gonna drag us online and then no one [01:09:10] will come to us. And I was like, ah, oh. I was like, I don’t know if that’s a good thing for people to [01:09:15] think about me.

Speaker3: No, you know, I mean, I think that you’re always fair because I’ve never seen you, [01:09:20] like, really sort of slay any of the services. I know that you’ve also like, you know, you had an experience [01:09:25] also with threads, for example. And I think, you know, you were you were honest, but also you didn’t drag [01:09:30] it out and out and out, you know.

Speaker1: And I never named the clinic. I never named the clinic publicly either. That did it because [01:09:35] I was like, I don’t actually know legally, like where this leaves me. And they did. They still threatened me with legal action. Yeah, they still [01:09:40] they still were like, we’re gonna we’re gonna, like, get our lawyers involved. And like, I expect to hear from our lawyer. And I was like, I’ve [01:09:45] never named you publicly, so I don’t know what you’re expecting to do. Yeah. [01:09:50] So, yeah, it’s just crazy.

Speaker3: So, Sophie, we could speak for ages. [01:09:55] I know, because you’re such a diverse, interesting person. I’m so grateful you could come today. [01:10:00] What I want to ask you as a closing is, you know, what does the future hold? You know, for you, [01:10:05] I know we should always be present, and that’s so important. But really, you know, what’s the sort of [01:10:10] the plan for the next year? Where will we be seeing Sophie? Tell us a little bit about your current adventure. [01:10:15] That’s what I’m trying to lead on to as well. Yeah.

Speaker1: So I recently launched a bit, launched a business [01:10:20] called New Cycle Society, and it’s this business for women to in their [01:10:25] late 20s, all the way through their 30s to make friends in London and do cool things and events [01:10:30] and stuff like that. And we do everything from we went out for like a really kind of like a boozy, bottomless dinner [01:10:35] on Saturday night, which was fun. I don’t even drink anymore, really. So that was interesting. And, [01:10:40] um, you know, even a big formula One fan. So we do formula one watch parties. We do like we [01:10:45] do so many things, like just like Pilates classes, like, you know, candle making. We’ve got like, you know, [01:10:50] a live country music night coming up. There’s about around about two events per week at the [01:10:55] moment. So it’s a lot uh, and the community is amazing. There’s around [01:11:00] like maybe 320 members at the moment, and it’s only been running for around 6 [01:11:05] to 7 weeks, which is incredible. Congratulations. Yeah, it’s really good. And everyone who comes to [01:11:10] it, it’s amazing. And I’ve got some really good feedback at the dinner at the weekend. The girls who were the women that were there, they [01:11:15] said a few of them were like, oh, I’ve been to other things like this. And kind of essentially, I guess, your competitors. But [01:11:20] the people were a little bit, a bit weird or I didn’t really get on with the people there, but everyone [01:11:25] at my events has got on almost like they’ve been friends for. It’s almost been like, it’s like they’re connecting [01:11:30] with old friends from years ago. And one of them pointed out they’re like, but it’s because most of them have come [01:11:35] to this through following you, so they share your values. Yeah. So that’s why instantly they have this connection. We have [01:11:40] this connection. Is it women only. It’s it’s yeah, it’s women only. It was going to be open.

Speaker3: She’s gonna pivot. [01:11:45] We talked about that.

Speaker1: No we were it was going to be open to to to men as well. But then like when I launched, [01:11:50] all the women were like, nah, I like the sisterhood. We like the community of women. So it’s [01:11:55] like, ah, okay. This is like, okay. I guess it makes it easier in terms of marketing. But you know. [01:12:00] So yeah, but it’s amazing. It it’s really great. So, uh, it just kind of building that building the community. [01:12:05] I would love to branch out in other places, but it’s currently entirely [01:12:10] self-funded by me and like, ran entirely by me, so I can’t I can’t [01:12:15] really be in like, multiple cities at once without getting investment and [01:12:20] people to help me in other countries, there’s been a big, big call for like bringing it to Dubai. [01:12:25] Dubai and Sydney are like the places to the top two places. People are like, please bring it to Dubai and Sydney. [01:12:30] Yeah, but I don’t know who knows what next year will hold.

Speaker3: Blue Sky thinking it’s gonna happen.

Speaker1: No, I’m just like, you [01:12:35] know what? Whatever. If it happens, it happens. And I’m also bringing out my own, like, clothing line in collaboration [01:12:40] with a company called Label Rail, which I designed with some designers, which is going to be really [01:12:45] cool, amazing. So that’s going to be coming out early next year. So loads of exciting things. Amazing. It’s just lots of [01:12:50] cool.

Speaker3: Watch this space Sophie Milner is the one. Yeah, but thank you so much for sharing [01:12:55] your insights. As I said, Sophie’s been a beacon for me throughout my social media [01:13:00] journey and like speaks out on most issues. I’m like, I was thinking that I couldn’t articulate [01:13:05] myself. So I really appreciate it. And I’m sure you provided a lot of insights for a lot of people.

Speaker1: Oh, guys, [01:13:10] thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Take care. Thank you.

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