Ellie Bratt joins Payman and Rhona for a chat about generational trauma, gender dynamics in the workplace and society, and the challenges and biases faced by women. 

Ellie shares her personal and professional so far, discussing her entrepreneurial spirit and the founding of Sirens social media marketing agency.


In This Episode

02.00 – Background

03.40 – Generational trauma

09.45 – School

12.00 – Gender dynamics and societal expectations

19.00 – Entrepreneurial journey

26.05 – Gender pay gap and workplace dynamics

36.30 – Sirens

41.05 – TikTok and social media

01.02.50 – Top tips


About Ellie Bratt

Ellie Bratt is an influencer, TikTok personality and founder of Sirens social media agency.

Speaker1: So I did originally work on other channels I originally had. I originally was a social media manager for all [00:00:05] channels, and I just saw the growth on TikTok, the potential, the reach, um, [00:00:10] and just how you’re able to get into such into, you know, the hearts of billions [00:00:15] of people. It’s the first one of the fastest growing apps in the world, um, you know, almost 2 billion active [00:00:20] users. So it’s very, very, um, you know, growing at a rapid, rapid pace. So I just [00:00:25] think the the growth that I’ve seen and the potential on on app, on and [00:00:30] off app, um, is amazing.

Speaker2: This is [00:00:35] mind movers. Moving the conversation forward on mental [00:00:40] health and optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts [00:00:45] Rhona Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Speaker3: Hi [00:00:50] everyone. Welcome back to Mind Movers. Payman says I’m not allowed to call it season two, but [00:00:55] because it is a new year, I’m going to call it season two. And we are your co-hosts Payman, Langroudi [00:01:00] and Doctor Rona. Today I have an incredible woman, Eloise Bratt. [00:01:05] She looks like a Bratz doll. Have you ever seen the Bratz dolls? No. Have you never seen them? I look.

Speaker1: Like [00:01:10] a x.

Speaker4: Y, z a Gen x, Gen y, Gen z. No, Gen-X just doesn’t [00:01:15] know about Bratz dolls. Man. What is it?

Speaker3: A Bratz dolls are like those dolls. They look like Barbies, but not Barbies. They’re a little bit [00:01:20] more real edgy edgy than Barbie. Anyway, she does look like a Bratz doll.

Speaker1: It [00:01:25] was like Bratz or Barbie. You always one or the other. I was always a Bratz Bratz doll girl, to be fair.

Speaker3: So [00:01:30] we really want to continue bringing you guys things that are [00:01:35] of value. And I think today’s episode is going to be very interesting because Eloise started [00:01:40] a social media agency. We’re going to go into her whole childhood how she started [00:01:45] it, but she’s in fact my Tik Tok manager for both my personal brand and my Chelsea [00:01:50] Dental brand. And one of the big questions that I get asked is, Rona, how do you do it all? My [00:01:55] answer is I delegate and one of the delegation is outsourcing things, and so [00:02:00] I can spend my time on the things that I love. I love social media, we all know that. But you know, me and Ellie bounce off each [00:02:05] other. She comes, she takes the videos and then she posts them. Ellie has a very interesting [00:02:10] history and heritage within her own family line, and also she got to where [00:02:15] she did through determination, dedication and just really [00:02:20] believing in herself. So today’s episode is going to be about mental health, but also about how to build [00:02:25] a tick tock brand and how to do it. So welcome, Ellie.

Speaker1: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m very [00:02:30] happy to be here.

Speaker3: So, Ellie, I want you to start from the beginning. I’m getting some of my [00:02:35] sort of questions up for the prompts that I, that I wrote down because there was so much information. [00:02:40] But I want you to start from the beginning, and I want you to share a bit about your childhood, the environment that you grew up in, [00:02:45] and how you think your early years shaped who you are.

Speaker1: I, [00:02:50] I think I had quite a normal childhood, to be fair, like I there was nothing in my childhood [00:02:55] that was, you know, not normal to me that nothing. You know, my parents [00:03:00] were together. I was brought up in a loving home. And my mum, my dad, my sister, myself. [00:03:05] Um, so I always had that, you know, that close knit family growing up. My my, [00:03:10] um, parents are like one of four each. So I’ve always grown up with, like, big family [00:03:15] and everyone’s very close. And I’ve always had that nice family, uh, family [00:03:20] behind like family net behind me. Um, so, yeah, growing up, you know, it was just an Essex. [00:03:25] I went to a normal school. Nothing. You know, crazy happened. It was honestly [00:03:30] just a very normal childhood.

Speaker3: So you talk about your childhood being normal, but obviously [00:03:35] on this podcast, we go deeper and really try to spend some time and understanding the psychology of individuals [00:03:40] and how it shaped who they are. I know that your grandfather was a Holocaust victim, [00:03:45] which you’ve told me about before, and we’ve mentioned things like generational trauma. So do you want to tell [00:03:50] us a little bit about what your grandfather went through and how you felt it affected your family throughout? [00:03:55]

Speaker1: Yeah. So growing up, um, obviously, I said that we had a very, very normal childhood, [00:04:00] which we did. Um, because he never really spoke about anything for quite a [00:04:05] long time. And it wasn’t until, um, he got to his 70s, I think, that my, my [00:04:10] Nana sort of pushed him and was like, okay, you need to like, stop talking about it. Um, so growing up for [00:04:15] us, we didn’t really know too much about it. But for my parents, there was always this elephant. Sorry. [00:04:20] Like my mum and her siblings, there was always this elephant in the room. They knew something happened. They [00:04:25] knew sort of what happened, but he never spoke about it. Um, so yeah, it wasn’t until my [00:04:30] Nana sort of pushed him to speak about it that he really started, um, you know, educating about what happened to him. [00:04:35] So, um, you know, my mental health does, like, typically run in my family, my, my mum [00:04:40] and her siblings, um, they’re all sort of, like, suffered bits with mental health, um, [00:04:45] through generational trauma because of what happened to him, because he always had this thing that affected [00:04:50] him when he was younger that he never spoke about. And I think that was always there for them growing up that, um, you [00:04:55] know, he just unwillingly passed it down to them, the trauma.

Speaker1: Um, so, yeah, mental [00:05:00] health definitely runs in my family and they’ve all had things that affected them. Um, and [00:05:05] they’re very, because of that, very, very open with mental health. Um, they, [00:05:10] they all want to sort of like get rid of the stigma about it. You know, if you’re on antidepressants, if you’re seeing a [00:05:15] therapist. So what, like that shouldn’t be something that you have to hide, that you feel that you need to hide. So [00:05:20] I’ve always been brought up around that. You know, if there’s something wrong, talk about it and, you know, share your feelings [00:05:25] and, um, get help if you need it. So that’s always been there. And I’m very lucky that I’ve had [00:05:30] that. I’ve never personally felt, um, you know, that I’ve had to, to [00:05:35] get to that length to get to, you know, speaking to someone or um, or anything [00:05:40] like that. But I know that if I needed to and there was one time where I almost needed to that [00:05:45] I could just chat to my family and they’d be there. And I love that I had. Growing up because [00:05:50] I know a lot of people don’t. Um, so I’m, I guess I’m very blessed that I’ve had that with my family.

Speaker3: Yeah. [00:05:55] Thank you for sharing that. And actually, Payman, do you know what generational trauma is?

Speaker4: I can guess, but [00:06:00] go ahead.

Speaker3: But also like where you’re from, for example, Iran and where I’m from in the Middle East, there were definitely [00:06:05] elements of that generational trauma. So we talked about this with Ellie, who is my Ellie. Um, [00:06:10] Ella who is my therapist, and she talks a lot about generational trauma. So it’s [00:06:15] essentially about the history and heritage of your own ancestors that [00:06:20] has been passed on. And what they’ve recently found is, is that there’s an epigenetic element to it. [00:06:25] So although people think like, is it a psychological thing that’s passed on, how can you quantify it? More [00:06:30] and more, they’re finding in DNA that you can pass on a trauma gene. So it’s really interesting. [00:06:35] And that’s because if you just don’t get over something or something like that. Um, so what kind of things [00:06:40] did your grandfather experience.

Speaker1: In back in the Holocaust? Oh, he was. [00:06:45] Yeah, he he, um, was born in Hungary. Um, he was around 13, I think, [00:06:50] uh, when the Holocaust happened. And, yeah, he went to Auschwitz. He was in the concentration [00:06:55] camp. Um, his entire family died. He was in a quite a religious family. He was like one [00:07:00] of eight. Um, they all they all died. They all got sent to the gas chambers or murdered. Apart from [00:07:05] him and his brother, they were the only two that survived. Wow. Um, and then, yeah, they came to England and [00:07:10] started up a family here. Um, and his his brother sadly died maybe ten or so years [00:07:15] ago now. So, yeah, he’s the only only one left. And yeah, there’s not many survivors nowadays. So, [00:07:20] um, my sister’s actually doing a really amazing thing called generation. Generation to generation, [00:07:25] where she generation to generation, where she essentially goes around to um, schools, [00:07:30] universities, workplaces and speaks about, um, his story. Um, [00:07:35] just because obviously there’s not going to be many chances for him to do it, you know. Yeah. Anymore. So it’s [00:07:40] incredible. Yeah. So yeah, there’s. Yeah. He’s amazing. He’s my biggest inspiration. [00:07:45] Um, yeah. And he came to England. Didn’t know the language. No family. Um, was in like a [00:07:50] boys school, like, grew up in, like, essentially care and started his own business [00:07:55] and got very, very successful. And he is where he is today, you know, beautiful family, [00:08:00] grandkids, great grandkids.

Speaker4: Hearing his story to that change. [00:08:05] Number one, change him once. He’d sort of laid it out. And did it change who [00:08:10] you thought you were as well?

Speaker1: Yeah I think definitely at first I think, [00:08:15] you know, knowing that he was a Holocaust survivor and, you know, you at school, you know, you [00:08:20] learn about things like the Holocaust or we did. We definitely did. And then sort of understanding, [00:08:25] oh, my grandfather’s a Holocaust survivor. And no one else saying, oh, me too was a bit like, [00:08:30] oh my gosh, that’s actually a big thing. I didn’t realise, you know, I was not one of many [00:08:35] that that had a Holocaust survivor as a grandparent. Um, so for me, definitely, [00:08:40] it was like, whoa, okay, this is quite a big thing. And I think that’s why my sister decided to do the [00:08:45] generation to generation because she was like, okay, I there’s not many of us grandchildren that have [00:08:50] got grand grandparents as survivors. Um, but so I think yeah, that’s why [00:08:55] it definitely makes me like, extremely, extremely proud. I think it’s, um, amazing. Like what he’s [00:09:00] achieved despite what he’s been through. Yeah. Um, and then I think for him, I [00:09:05] think he everything that he does and speaks about, he’s a BEM now. So he, [00:09:10] he got, um, he got the medal from the Queen and he’s done all of that. And he everything [00:09:15] for him is just about education. He doesn’t he would never um, he’s got a book out now, [00:09:20] but, like, he doesn’t ever want anything to be about him. It’s all about his story and what he went through. [00:09:25] Um, and just making sure that people don’t forget the the traumas and what happened, [00:09:30] um, to the people of the Holocaust. So, yeah, for him, I think it’s it’s now just about [00:09:35] the message. And I think he’s very, very glad that he was able to finally speak up about it. Yeah. [00:09:40]

Speaker3: Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Now I want to move on [00:09:45] to your school days. So how would you describe yourself as a student? Was there any [00:09:50] subjects or activities that you were particularly drawn to, like? Talk to us a little bit, because I know you and I have spoken [00:09:55] personally about it, but I want to share it with everyone else.

Speaker1: Yeah. Um, I think at school I [00:10:00] was never really like an academic person. I was quite chatty as well, a bit [00:10:05] naughty. I was on report card for a while, if, you know, report card back in the day. Um, in [00:10:10] the early years of school, um, and I think that was just because I never saw myself [00:10:15] as, um, you know, academic. I couldn’t concentrate properly in classes. I never felt [00:10:20] that I found an academic class that I truly liked, like maths, science. [00:10:25] I was really not into any of it. Um, English. I did particularly, like, I [00:10:30] actually really liked English. Um, English language. Um, I felt I definitely excel was a little bit more [00:10:35] there and then drama as well, and when that was a subject. So I loved all of that kind of, [00:10:40] um, those kind of topics. Yeah. Um, and then drama got discontinued at my school. [00:10:45] I didn’t even know that that was a thing, so I couldn’t I couldn’t do that anymore. Um. And then [00:10:50] in in GCSEs, English Literature, English language that I actually liked [00:10:55] wasn’t even a subject you could choose. So I ended up doing, um, English literature instead, [00:11:00] which I still sort of liked, but it wasn’t.

Speaker1: Wouldn’t have been my first choice. Um, and, you [00:11:05] know, I was doing all these other subjects and, you know, you’re told, you know, you need to do maths, you need to do triple science or [00:11:10] double science or all these kind of subjects. And I just never really enjoyed any of them. I absolutely [00:11:15] hated, you know, maths. I was never a good maths person. Um, but yeah, English [00:11:20] was okay for me, I liked it. Um, and then I think for, [00:11:25] um, I got okay GCSEs, I got like an A, four B’s, three C’s, [00:11:30] that kind of thing. Maybe a D in there somewhere. I was definitely science or maths. Um, and then it came round to [00:11:35] As levels. Um, and I ended up doing English, sociology, [00:11:40] uh, psychology and politics. Really? Yes. Politics, which I never, [00:11:45] ever would have had an interest in. Politics is something I am probably the least interested [00:11:50] in, but I don’t know if you had at school, you had to choose certain subjects that were in a column, and [00:11:55] you ended up doing subjects just because it was in that column and you had it fitted into the schedule.

Speaker3: But [00:12:00] dentistry, I think, is just way more, um, it there’s way more thought going [00:12:05] into it. Right? Because you have to do chemistry and biology and then you pick the other two and then by [00:12:10] nature you don’t.

Speaker4: Have to do biology.

Speaker3: Yeah you do.

Speaker4: I didn’t do biology.

Speaker3: Well, we had to when I was applying [00:12:15] because.

Speaker4: Chemistry and two sciences. But but but it’s an interesting point and two sciences. [00:12:20]

Speaker3: So it would have to be physics and biology. No. What’s the other sciences. Maths isn’t the science I.

Speaker4: Did [00:12:25] maths, physics, chemistry. Sorry.

Speaker3: Well okay. Einstein I’m sorry. Sorry. So [00:12:30] no.

Speaker4: I wish I did biology because it really put me in a bad situation and Dental school not having done, not having looked [00:12:35] down a microscope. Oh yeah. All that.

Speaker3: Stuff. Yeah. Fine.

Speaker4: But I’m interested in. Okay. So then [00:12:40] did you, did you enjoy politics?

Speaker1: I hated it, I absolutely hated it. I was like, why [00:12:45] am I why am I here? Why am I doing a subject that I absolutely hate just because it fit into a box on a schedule? [00:12:50] Um, so it literally got to a stage where I would be going home crying to my mum, like, what have I done? [00:12:55] And she she’s the one that told me, just, just forget it and focus on the ones that you like. [00:13:00] Um, anyway. And then I, um. Yeah. So I basically failed that. And I [00:13:05] actually did quite badly in English as well, in all of my subjects. I did quite badly in As [00:13:10] levels. Um, I got du as my, [00:13:15] As levels.

Speaker4: You haven’t got kids, have you?

Speaker1: No.

Speaker3: So she’s Gen Z, she’s like, she’s a kid. [00:13:20] You know.

Speaker4: You just have to say that before you say so. Do you think if you had kids or [00:13:25] when you have kids, do you think you’ll you’ll be more of an enforcer as far as studies [00:13:30] than your parents were? No. Were your parents enforcing studies or not?

Speaker1: Um, they were they [00:13:35] always were like, I, they were quite strict in that sense. I wasn’t allowed to, you know, um, you know, go and play with [00:13:40] my friends or do anything until I had done my homework or until I’d done, you know, certain amount of reading [00:13:45] or things like that. So they they definitely made sure I did my work. But I know there’s probably parents out there [00:13:50] that push their kids a lot more. However, why? You know, I clearly wasn’t academic, [00:13:55] so if they did push me more, it would have just made me, you know, rebel. Yeah. More frustrated, [00:14:00] I think.

Speaker3: I mean, I’d be interested to hear Paimon’s view on this, but we talk a lot about, um, the [00:14:05] immigrant motivation. Have you heard about this? Um, so, for example, my parents [00:14:10] pushed me so hard, me and my sister and I remember even being at school and not being able to [00:14:15] have a sick day, ever. I had chickenpox, and my dad goes, you’re going to school. It’s a waste [00:14:20] of £400 today if you didn’t. And we got sent to school with chickenpox and then sent home for being superspreaders, [00:14:25] you know what I mean? And the point is, is because they instilled so much hard work [00:14:30] in us. But there’s also a problem with that, because you feel that the only way that you’re really loved [00:14:35] by your parents is when you’re achieving, when you’re not achieving. Yeah. It’s a conditional love that you get an [00:14:40] A, or you pass this test or you get this accolade. And I think that’s quite dangerous [00:14:45] because as a result, although it’s made me very driven in my adult life, I feel like when I’m not achieving or when [00:14:50] I’m not being validated, I’m not good enough, and I do. I don’t want to blame my parents, because I do think our parents did [00:14:55] the best that they knew. But obviously coming from countries that were war torn and they they [00:15:00] came here for opportunity essentially, and work. They just instilled that hard work. What would you do with [00:15:05] your kid? Well, before you go on to that, my question is, did you have that or were your parents, what were [00:15:10] you first, second generation or what was it?

Speaker4: Yeah, I was six when I came. Yeah. In our house, studies were the only [00:15:15] thing that happened. No, that was, that was counted like, you know, so my [00:15:20] brother was always top of his class. Um, but he was really bad at. He was he was unkind. He was [00:15:25] angry. He was really. And none of that stuff counted. It was only where you were, your studies. And [00:15:30] I felt a degree of resentment because of that.

Speaker3: How did he develop then as an adult? How did that carry him through? [00:15:35]

Speaker4: Well, he still still the same. No, no, no, I wouldn’t go that far. But but but but you [00:15:40] know, in our house points were only given to academic stuff. So this is what I’m saying. I [00:15:45] even though my kids are pretty academic because my I was.

Speaker3: Gonna say, how do you treat them? With their [00:15:50] achievements. Do you think subconsciously.

Speaker4: My wife’s taken the mantle of the studies because they go to French school and [00:15:55] she speaks French? Yeah, yeah. Um, so I can just be the fun guy.

Speaker3: But [00:16:00] do you feel that when they fails at something, whether it’s sports or, you know, whatever it [00:16:05] is, how do you handle that as a father?

Speaker4: I try to I try and be different to to my upbringing. [00:16:10] But, you know, I’ve had people sit here and say, I wish my parents pushed me harder. Yes. [00:16:15] And I’ve had the opposite and many of those. Yeah. And I’ve had the opposite of, you [00:16:20] know, especially with some Asian parents. Right.

Speaker3: And in dentistry, I think it’s rife because a lot of them go into [00:16:25] dentistry or medicine for their parents. Yeah. They don’t go into it because they wanted to. And it’s very [00:16:30] interesting when you hear these people from these very strict Asian backgrounds saying, I hate dentistry, and [00:16:35] they actually end up going off and doing other things, or they totally.

Speaker4: My own brother, my own brother wanted to do something. [00:16:40] He was very good at maths. Yeah. Um, but, uh, he’s now a doctor. Yeah. [00:16:45] He’s still blames my parents at age 54.

Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. [00:16:50] So it’s interesting how our childhood conditioned us. But back to payments. Yeah. [00:16:55] You know, would you do the same to your children? And do you think that it was helpful the way that your parents [00:17:00] treated you?

Speaker1: Definitely I think I they they were very [00:17:05] strict to an extent. So I think they knew that I wasn’t academic in that sense. [00:17:10] They knew I wasn’t going to do well in politics. They knew I wasn’t going to do well in maths. They knew I wasn’t going to do science. [00:17:15] So there, from their point of view, it was more like focus on the ones that you do like and you do think are going [00:17:20] to help you. Um, so then for, for my A levels from that I, [00:17:25] I dropped psychology, I dropped so I dropped politics obviously I got, I got, I [00:17:30] got using them um, and I essentially decided to take up [00:17:35] um media studies. So media studies was a thing at my school, but it was sort of looked down [00:17:40] upon as that my dad.

Speaker3: Would say it was a woowoo degree. There we.

Speaker1: Go. The BTec, the BTec in.

Speaker4: Media [00:17:45] Studies is the classic one that in, in, in, in that day, people used to think was [00:17:50] for people who didn’t who weren’t very bright. But it’s turned out to be. Yeah. Even the most important subjects [00:17:55] out there.

Speaker1: Yeah, exactly. There we go in today’s age. But yeah, like even much of the.

Speaker4: Media studies you did, did [00:18:00] it have anything to do with social media or was it.

Speaker1: Before? No, it was before. So it was more of actual media. But this is sort [00:18:05] of, I think where my, where my like original love for, for the media side of things [00:18:10] came out and where, where it made me realise you don’t need to have to be doing a maths class or a politics class [00:18:15] to be, to get sent to university, because I did want to go to university. You want to go? [00:18:20] I think I wanted to go more for the experience. Yeah, more for the experience. I’m not gonna lie. I’ve [00:18:25] living on my own, being with friends, that kind of thing. I went to Nottingham Trent. It wasn’t, you know, one of the redbrick universities. [00:18:30] But I did want to go. I wanted a degree and I. And at that time it [00:18:35] was still, um, you know, you had to normally go to university to get a good job at [00:18:40] the end. You know, most jobs were still then were you have to have a degree. It doesn’t matter what. [00:18:45]

Speaker4: You grown up in London.

Speaker1: Essex, Essex, Essex. Yeah. Where abouts? Um, Gants Hill originally. [00:18:50] Yeah. And then I moved to Loughton. Um, and that’s where my family are now. But yeah. So [00:18:55] I, it made me realise like, okay, you didn’t need to have, you know, the politics or the psychology [00:19:00] or the maths to, to to be able to do well and um, yeah. And even [00:19:05] with like the other subjects, you know, I, um, overheard teachers telling me, um, sorry, [00:19:10] I overheard teachers, my English teacher telling another teacher, you know, Eloise isn’t going to pass. Um, [00:19:15] she’s going to fail. She she did. She got a C last year. There’s no way she’s going to, uh. So she got a [00:19:20] D in her A-levels. There’s no way she’s going to do well in her A-levels. And that just kind of made [00:19:25] me determined to prove them wrong.

Speaker3: That was the same with me. Yeah. Um, we had a conversation [00:19:30] earlier, and Payman is probably going to disagree because he’s Payman. And, um, we [00:19:35] said actually with one of my other guests that there is also this poor conditioning [00:19:40] between boys and girls when you grow up, and that if you’re a very loud girl, you’re [00:19:45] really told off and you’re deemed to be bossy. And that was me as a child, like I was that loud [00:19:50] girl. Surprise, surprise. I’d get up in the classroom. I’d be like, like causing a little bit of [00:19:55] a a scene. But I was just like, I had like a degree of leadership. Does that make sense? [00:20:00] And that was definitely not something that was encouraged at [00:20:05] school. In a way. It was like, you have to be the good little quiet girl. And I feel that when you think of like [00:20:10] boys that were like perhaps a bit more boisterous, like maybe they didn’t get as [00:20:15] disciplined or told off as I did in that kind of school environment [00:20:20] if they were bossy. Um, I don’t know. But even just like thinking more of, like, the boisterous behaviour, [00:20:25] does that make sense? It was more like boys will be boys, that kind of thing, you know, which is quite [00:20:30] interesting.

Speaker4: Do you think it’s right that the label is controversial? The label is different [00:20:35] based on who it is that’s doing the thing, you know, like like. [00:20:40]

Speaker3: Yeah, like, go on, go on. Yeah.

Speaker4: Well, okay. Like, if a girl says [00:20:45] I was a tomboy. Yeah. Okay. What you think? What you say to that girl. [00:20:50] The way you label that girl is different to a boy. Just a boy. [00:20:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, why? I mean, there’s a difference, right? Let’s start with this. [00:21:00] Do you think it’s harder being a woman than a man? James O’Brien today. It’s on James O’Brien. [00:21:05] Today we.

Speaker3: Go. Really? What did he say?

Speaker4: He was like a shock. Horror. I can’t believe people think that it’s different. [00:21:10] It’s harder being a man than it’s.

Speaker1: I think it’s definitely harder to be a woman [00:21:15] outside.

Speaker4: Of childbirth, outside of children, just to put children completely, like, crop them out [00:21:20] of the picture. Yeah. To for a second. It’s harder to.

Speaker1: Be a woman, especially in the workplace, [00:21:25] for example, I think thank.

Speaker3: You.

Speaker1: From first hand. From first hand [00:21:30] I can I can tell you the amount of times that you’re, you’re not seemed as on the same level [00:21:35] when you’re in a group of a room with a group of men, you’re sort of looked down upon as your opinion [00:21:40] being you.

Speaker4: Work, you work at Rowena’s practice and there’s a guy who works there. Does she does [00:21:45] she treat you as if you’re not equal to that man?

Speaker1: No. Definitely not. I think it’s [00:21:50] I think it’s more, um. More, um, what’s the word? You know, in corporate, [00:21:55] I think it’s more in corporate settings. Um, you know, and you’re, [00:22:00] you know, you’re looked at as, you know, the receptionist or, you know, the receptionist should be a woman or the PA should be a woman. [00:22:05] Um, and it’s always, you know, the white men in the boardrooms and the women are outside. [00:22:10] Um, and I think it’s hard.

Speaker4: I think that’s a thing.

Speaker1: Now I do, and I do think that does [00:22:15] still happen today. I think I think there are women in in companies now. They are the reason. Just harder. [00:22:20]

Speaker3: I’m not looking right. I’m not. I wasn’t looking at my phone. I wanted to get you some stats. Right. I think it’s really [00:22:25] hard because I have this conversation a lot, even with my male peers and male colleagues, women. [00:22:30] And to be honest with you, Payman, because before I got here, he was like, I’m really worried about you, okay? And all this stuff. [00:22:35] I’m like, I struggle so much being a woman. And sometimes I actually feel a bit like [00:22:40] sad about it because I never thought it was that difficult. And I have to be honest with you, like growing up [00:22:45] with my dad, I was always like a very empowered female. Like, you’ve seen the way my dad is with me and my sister [00:22:50] and my my mom and everything like that. And I think in dentistry it’s so shocking [00:22:55] because what’s the stats? How many women are there compared to men? There’s a lot more.

Speaker4: Just not a lot more. It’s like 53%. [00:23:00]

Speaker3: So okay. And then out of that 53% in comparison, how many are [00:23:05] practice owners? How many of them like run their own thing, you know.

Speaker4: Lower than. [00:23:10]

Speaker3: Lower.

Speaker4: But yeah but that the reason for that listen.

Speaker3: Listen listen listen okay. So [00:23:15] the point is, is that I think that yes, of course, being a woman in [00:23:20] the UK is much better than being a woman in Iran, for example. Yeah, but let’s think [00:23:25] about all the things that are going like worldwide. Like, it’s so sad to think, even in Afghanistan, [00:23:30] that women are being stripped of their education. I know we’re not there. And women of Iran are being murdered [00:23:35] because they’re not wearing hijabs. Like, this is such a sad reality of the world as a whole. Yeah, within [00:23:40] the Western world we have made massive progress. But I still think there’s a lot of things that need to be [00:23:45] done. And I think that there is unfortunately, a little bit of a bias. I’ve even heard men [00:23:50] in the dental industry that say, well, yeah, of course, you know, men are going to be more suitable [00:23:55] to be in a boardroom than women because the reality is women have to have children [00:24:00] and then women have children. They have to take that time off and then the work suffers. [00:24:05] Now, you brought up the childbirth thing already, right? So I get it. I do get what you’re saying, and I understand. I want [00:24:10] to.

Speaker4: Talk about children as well. Yeah. But we starting with outside of children, is [00:24:15] it harder to be a woman in the workplace than a man? I think.

Speaker3: It’s harder being a woman in general.

Speaker4: But. [00:24:20] Well, why? Look. Yes there is. Look, my daughter was telling me three times a day she [00:24:25] has to worry for her safety as she walks down an alley. The thing is, I never considered that. Yeah, and [00:24:30] you know, if that’s a true thing. But listen, I get that.

Speaker3: But I get that. But listen here, like I’m just going to read [00:24:35] you like, this is McKinsey, right? I went on here. So McKinsey. Mckinsey have stated that women [00:24:40] represent roughly 1 in 4 C-suite leaders. And what. And women of colour just 1 [00:24:45] in 16 and saying massive progress needs to be um, massive progress needs to be [00:24:50] made. Made. Exactly. And microaggressions have a micro impact [00:24:55] reality. Microaggressions have a large and lasting impact on women. I tell you, as somebody who has suffered from [00:25:00] microaggression, it scars me and it damages me and it traumatises me. And [00:25:05] I have to sit there and be like, oh, well, don’t make a big deal of it when I know that what [00:25:10] has happened to me is a microaggression, and the way that I’ve been treated has been unfair.

Speaker4: Okay, [00:25:15] but there are certain things that being a man is hard. Totally, totally. You know, it’s [00:25:20] not like a.

Speaker1: I think as well. A lot of, um, men I’ve found are quite [00:25:25] intimidated by a woman, a successful woman. And that can also be a big thing.

Speaker3: And you [00:25:30] might not be paid. But the thing is, is that, for example, it’s really interesting because I might see an amazing [00:25:35] woman online. There’s a girl called Sarah, something she’s, I think, um, Kuwaiti [00:25:40] or she’s from Dubai or something, and she does loads of podcasts. You might have seen a hat, tattoos, [00:25:45] super attractive, lovely. She says, like really interesting, intelligent things. And she works in tech, [00:25:50] by the way, heavily male dominated and is very successful. And you’ll go on the comments and there’s all these men and [00:25:55] I know that there’s, you know, the internet’s the internet with all these men being like, oh, I hate [00:26:00] a woman like this has too much to say. Oh, there we go. Would be a headache. That’s why.

Speaker4: That’s the.

Speaker3: That’s [00:26:05] why we are. That’s why we all prefer younger women. And I’m.

Speaker4: A dick.

Speaker3: Yeah, but I [00:26:10] think.

Speaker4: I do think and there are sorry. There are dick women as well. You know what I mean? There’s good and bad people [00:26:15] around. Yeah. That’s just an idiot.

Speaker1: No, I don’t I don’t think that there’s many women that would comment on a guy [00:26:20] being like, oh, you know, oh, he needs to talk a little bit less like I think that is stereotypically [00:26:25] that does happen.

Speaker4: There’s lots of women who say things about men, right? You know, loads, [00:26:30] especially your generation. They love it. Right.

Speaker3: But the thing [00:26:35] is, is that I do agree with you, and I do think that there really lacks a strong and credible male [00:26:40] role model. I think we really lack good. Yeah. No, [00:26:45] no, but no, but but but what I was going to say was, is that I do feel sorry for men. I do, and I do think it’s hard to [00:26:50] be a young man.

Speaker4: But let’s talk about women. Let’s talk about women. This gender pay gap question. [00:26:55] Yeah. Do you feel it in your business? I don’t like in my business. If it was real [00:27:00] that I could hire women for less than men, I wouldn’t hire any men. Yeah, but I’ve got loads of men working for me. Yeah. [00:27:05] What’s going on.

Speaker3: There? Well, obviously it’s different. I own my own business.

Speaker4: Yeah. So your employees, do you [00:27:10] hire women on purpose? Because they’re cheaper than men?

Speaker3: No, no, I hire who’s good, but also I actually make [00:27:15] a conscious and active effort in my workplace that I have hired. Ellie knows [00:27:20] people from all different backgrounds, all different physicality. It [00:27:25] is so diverse. I’ve had TV channels approach me and say, we want to do a TV programme [00:27:30] about you and your clinic, and I’m like, okay, that’s really weird. They love what I do on social media, but they’re like, we [00:27:35] love what you represent in the clinic. Conversely, someone that I employed in my dental practice, she’s very attractive, [00:27:40] told me that her old boss said that he would only employ very good [00:27:45] looking Eastern Europeans because he wanted to give that vibe in his workplace. Now. [00:27:50] Okay, fine, that’s his own agenda. But that’s not really fair, is it?

Speaker4: Oh, nothing’s [00:27:55] fair, right? So if you’re if you’re if you’re hiring people because of their diversity. Yeah.

Speaker3: No, [00:28:00] I’m making.

Speaker4: You’re discriminating against other people who aren’t.

Speaker3: You didn’t have construed [00:28:05] that. You’ve misconstrued that. You kind of said that.

Speaker4: You said on purpose. I made an active I made a.

Speaker3: Conscious [00:28:10] decision to make sure that I give people of all colours, races, [00:28:15] sizes, etc. equal opportunities. Difference. I’m consciously just [00:28:20] like, I’m just going to hire them just because they’re non-binary or you know what [00:28:25] I mean? I’m hire. I’m making an active decision in my recruitment process to allow for people [00:28:30] of different physicalities backgrounds, etc., and I will employ people based on their merits and [00:28:35] their ability to do the job, whereas some people might subconsciously or consciously not interview [00:28:40] people.

Speaker4: I’ve done it myself. I’ve done it myself. If I’m being totally honest, I’ve done it myself. Okay, yeah. [00:28:45] Um, and you know, you walk into a top restaurant and a beautiful lady [00:28:50] is there greeting you. And you know, that wasn’t by mistake. You know, that was on purpose. [00:28:55] Yeah. Um, we hire models. We we hire salespeople. I’ve definitely done it. I’ve definitely done [00:29:00] it. Um.

Speaker1: I think we’ve. As a woman. Yeah. Like you think about all the things that, [00:29:05] you know, you’re brought up to, that you experience, you know, like from a young age, you’re sexualised, [00:29:10] you know, things like that happen, like, you know, from the age of 12 or 13, I get on the bus [00:29:15] and, you know, I’d have my ass slapped or something. And you just have to accept that. That’s a that’s a thing. Well, obviously you don’t. [00:29:20] But but things like that happen and you know, from young ages, you know, you you don’t realise what you’re doing. [00:29:25] But going to clubs in Mayfair when you’re, when you go, go up to London on a night out and [00:29:30] you’re queuing to go into a club and you’ve got a promoter and you’re all in your dresses, in heels [00:29:35] and you know, for some reason you’re getting in for free and then for some reason you’re getting on a table and then for some reason, [00:29:40] you’re getting free drinks all night and you’re like, you don’t actually stop for a moment and realise like, wait, why is this [00:29:45] happening? And I think females.

Speaker3: Are hyper sexualised from a young age. And if you think about it, even like Britney Spears, [00:29:50] we talk about it. I loved Britney growing up. She was 16 and hit me baby, one more time. Let’s just take that. [00:29:55] You’ve got kids. 16 and there were men in their 30s and 40s, like [00:30:00] going crazy over Britney Spears. And now Britney Spears is what, in like her 40s. [00:30:05] Now I think she’s in her 40s. I’m not sure. And you know, people are like, oh, she looks so gross. I’m like, she [00:30:10] doesn’t look gross. But, you know, at the end of the day, she was so young. And that goes for all of them. You [00:30:15] know, you watch the supermodel program with Cindy and Nicole.

Speaker4: The thing is, the flip [00:30:20] side of that sexualised thing is the oppressed thing. And [00:30:25] I’d much rather have sexualised than oppressed.

Speaker3: What do you mean when you think about your own country?

Speaker4: Just the flip. Yeah. You [00:30:30] know, uh, Iran. Anyway, I’m. You’re saying women are sexualised. [00:30:35] Yeah. All right, there’s that issue. You don’t want people sexualised only. Only sexualised. Yeah, [00:30:40] but the flip side of that is a is a place where women are held back [00:30:45] covered, you know, can’t, can’t dress as they want.

Speaker1: But why can’t women just be women? Why [00:30:50] has it got to be one or the other? Why do they have to be sexualised or oppressed? Why can’t they just [00:30:55] exist without feeling like one of those things is happening?

Speaker4: It’s a good [00:31:00] question.

Speaker5: Ha ha. It’s good. No.

Speaker4: But it’s a good question. Why do you think? [00:31:05]

Speaker1: I truly don’t know. I don’t know why.

Speaker3: I think that the value of a [00:31:10] woman is based on obsessed with women, literally. And I have to tell you that, like, [00:31:15] if I’m honest and transparent as I always am, I had a little bit of a panic attack this year [00:31:20] because I was like, oh my God, I’m going to be 37 this year. And I started feeling all this wrath of [00:31:25] judgement from society that hasn’t even happened yet. But it was like, I’m like, I’ve [00:31:30] not done enough. I’ve not had a kid yet, I’ve not done this. And I was like, I actually just got really upset [00:31:35] and I don’t know why. And I was like, I’m not good enough. And I was like, and it’s just such a sad feeling, [00:31:40] you know what I mean?

Speaker1: We have a time limit as women limit which men don’t have. You [00:31:45] can’t be. You have a kid. You have a kid.

Speaker4: We said, we said, this crop kids are okay, let’s crop kids back [00:31:50] in. Let’s let’s crop kids back in. Go on. Okay. I definitely agree that that [00:31:55] kids affect careers of women. They do? Yeah. Now you [00:32:00] can go two ways with that. You can say why should they? Why shouldn’t the man’s career be affected just as [00:32:05] much as the woman’s? I’m telling you, it’s just not the case. It’s just not.

Speaker3: But biologically, it can’t [00:32:10] be.

Speaker4: It’s just not the case. So then, are you suggesting that there should be a bias, [00:32:15] like, should women with children be paid more than women without children? And should women be paid [00:32:20] more than men? And then, you know, then where does it go. Right. Should, should, should, [00:32:25] should Simon Chard have a handicap in his pay because he’s getting benefit [00:32:30] from his height. Yeah. Do you mean it’s, you know, it’s not an equal playground [00:32:35] even within women. It’s not an equal.

Speaker3: Again, like we’re talking about like the societal [00:32:40] thing as well. Like for example, what should.

Speaker4: We do about it?

Speaker3: No. But like for example, you [00:32:45] said like coming from, you know, a sort of Iranian background, etc., you have [00:32:50] an ideal of like a female body type or like working in the or like living in the 90s. [00:32:55] No, we had this that we had this discussion and I don’t blame you. And it’s the same with my mom. And I’m sure it’s the same [00:33:00] with your parents. And it’s like you just said, like height is something that like, people are like, that’s amazing and [00:33:05] such a great thing, but like society created that. And if you look, it was really funny. Have you watched Saltburn?

Speaker4: I’ve [00:33:10] heard. No.

Speaker3: Yeah. So for example, there’s two. Yeah. Okay. There’s two main actors in it, a guy [00:33:15] called Barry Keoghan. Yeah, he is like basically Irish and I think he’s like five foot seven. [00:33:20] He’s not tall at all, came from like a really working class background. And then [00:33:25] the co-star in it is a guy that I’m obsessed with from euphoria, a guy called Jacob Elordi. I don’t [00:33:30] know if you saw me. I did a whole TikTok on him anyways, and he’s like six foot seven, for example. [00:33:35] They act together and it’s so funny. And Eddie was like, I just think Barry’s so much better looking and more attractive. [00:33:40] And I was like, oh my God, I love Jacob Elordi. But it’s funny how like now, like the great [00:33:45] thing is, is you were saying like we are, the more we start to be open to different things, like a man doesn’t need [00:33:50] to be six foot to be attractive. My fiance is not six foot, you know what I mean? He’s my height, you know? [00:33:55] So like I feel like. But we’re now understanding that like it actually comes in different shapes and [00:34:00] sizes. And although you may disagree like I know you don’t like love Kim K, for example, but she’s still [00:34:05] celebrated as one of the most beautiful women, and she broke the mould, like coming in and being like, I’ve got a [00:34:10] small waist, big hips. And people were like, wow, do you know what I mean? And like, despite that, I [00:34:15] think you’re saying like people shouldn’t. Society made this problem like it was just decided the tall, [00:34:20] white, blonde, blue eyed man was the thing, you know, like that [00:34:25] is like the chosen person. But in reality, that’s just a societal thing that was [00:34:30] put out. It’s not reality. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker4: Yeah, but so what?

Speaker3: But what I’m trying to say to you is when you’re [00:34:35] saying, like, should someone be punished for being that. No, they shouldn’t be punished, but we should be celebrating all the other differences.

Speaker5: Okay, [00:34:40] okay, okay.

Speaker4: But you know, we were talking about gender pay gap. Yeah. And is it harder [00:34:45] being a woman than a man. And you know, there are these odd areas where, you know, the strength, [00:34:50] muscle strength of a woman puts her in a disadvantage. Right. So, like we [00:34:55] were saying, down a dark alley, if there’s a guy behind you, you have to properly worry, whereas I don’t. I just [00:35:00] walk down. I don’t think about it. Yeah. So yes. That obviously. Yeah.

Speaker1: Yes [00:35:05] I could probably bench press. I could probably bench press more than, more than some [00:35:10] men.

Speaker5: Okay. All right, I hear you, I hear you.

Speaker4: But day to day in your job, in your life, [00:35:15] going and buying your coffee, asking people for money, putting things forward, [00:35:20] though, you know, I don’t feel my daughter is disadvantaged compared to my [00:35:25] son in the world. I don’t I don’t see it in that sense. Mhm.

Speaker3: Well, [00:35:30] I think you’re lucky. And let’s hope that your daughter never has to experience some of the things that we have to experience, [00:35:35] because I hadn’t experienced what I would call differences in gender until the last [00:35:40] three years, and I’ve been lucky enough not to have experienced what I thought. But I have. And I think [00:35:45] when you do, you recognise and unfortunate, as you said, Ellie said, but why can’t we just exist? [00:35:50] And I think in my experience now I’ve been like, oh, I’m being, I don’t want to [00:35:55] say used, but I’m only my value is only seen for like the way I look. Can like flogging [00:36:00] something, for example. Does that make sense? And that’s really hard as well, because it makes me [00:36:05] feel like my value will diminish once I get older or lose.

Speaker5: You know, super.

Speaker4: Successful, [00:36:10] right?

Speaker3: Yeah, but I’m.

Speaker4: Not only because of the way there are other pretty totally. There are other pretty dentists. [00:36:15]

Speaker3: Yeah, of course, he tells me all the time, I know that, yeah.

Speaker4: It’s just [00:36:20] there are other pretty dentists who are not achieving what you’re achieving. Yeah. So, you know, it’s not [00:36:25] just the way you listen.

Speaker3: I think we’re not going to sort out the gender pay gap. So I’m going to move on. Right. So so [00:36:30] okay. So I would describe you. You’re not only a social media manager, [00:36:35] but you’re also an entrepreneur. So can you tell us a little bit about the company that you’ve started, which is [00:36:40] Sia and how it was founded, what inspired you to start it and what was your vision behind it?

Speaker1: Yes. [00:36:45] So the company, the company that I founded is sirens social media marketing agency, [00:36:50] and that specialises in like personal branding. And because over the years working in social [00:36:55] media, I’ve just found that people buy from people and storytelling [00:37:00] is what is so important. So if you’re on there, um, on any social media channel talking [00:37:05] about your brand all the time, promoting a product, people just swipe on, they don’t care. But [00:37:10] if it’s people, it’s you that they want to get to know. So if you’re able to get into the hearts [00:37:15] of the people by showing who you are and talking about yourself, that’s the way that that’s the way that [00:37:20] you succeed on social media. And I think I just felt such a connection to that. And I was like, wow, there’s really something [00:37:25] here with personal branding and why was.

Speaker3: It TikTok over Instagram?

Speaker1: So I did originally work on other [00:37:30] channels I originally had. I originally was a social media manager for all channels, and I just [00:37:35] saw the growth on TikTok, the potential, the reach, um, and just how you’re [00:37:40] able to get into such into, you know, the hearts of billions of people. It’s the fast, one of the fastest [00:37:45] growing apps in the world, um, you know, almost 2 billion active users. So it’s very, [00:37:50] very, um, you know, growing at a rapid, rapid pace. So I just think the the [00:37:55] growth that I’ve seen and the potential on, on app, on and off app, um, is amazing. [00:38:00] And I think it’s so important now for everyone. Um.

Speaker4: Take us through maybe [00:38:05] three tips that are.

Speaker3: Before she goes into that though. How was siren born? Yeah. So [00:38:10] because I think one of the big jumps for people to start a business on their own, we’ve they know our story. But how did it happen [00:38:15] for you and at such a young age?

Speaker1: Yeah. So I’ve always loved social media. Always. Um, and I think, [00:38:20] um, it’s always something that I fell into. So, so when I did go to university, I ended up doing journalism. [00:38:25] Um, and I did print journalism, and obviously that was quite a dying industry. So [00:38:30] a lot, which is very sad. But yeah, a lot of, a lot of my degree focussed on, [00:38:35] um, marketing and online marketing and things like that. And social media was a small aspect of [00:38:40] that, and that was where I first understood what sort of marketing was, and I just fell and fell in love with it. And [00:38:45] I knew that was always something that I wanted to do. Um, and then, you know, that that finished [00:38:50] and the first kind of social media thing I got into was in lockdown. I started a candle business, [00:38:55] as everyone did. Yeah, on the side, a little side hustle in lockdown. And [00:39:00] apart from like selling to family and friends, I was like, how else am I going to, you know, get the word out about about this [00:39:05] candle business. And so I started up social media pages for it. So I started posting on Instagram [00:39:10] and, um, you know, then I got got into doing like advertisement, TikTok ads and, [00:39:15] um, social media ads and Facebook and Instagram and understanding what all that was. And I literally just taught myself. [00:39:20] And that was sort of how I really got into like social media thing. So yeah, then [00:39:25] I got my first job in social media, uh, from that. Um, but then, yeah, [00:39:30] I don’t want to obviously mention too many. I don’t want a specific mention.

Speaker3: About what’s.

Speaker1: Fine about [00:39:35] the situation.

Speaker3: Yeah, okay.

Speaker1: Go on. I’m trying to think how I can word it, like how I did it on my own.

Speaker3: Working for [00:39:40] another company, and then and then.

Speaker1: Realised I. Yeah, I can say actually, like, um, you know, throughout [00:39:45] school and everything, um, school and work after that, uh, where I had social [00:39:50] media, my first job in social media, um, like firstly from school being told [00:39:55] to that I was never good enough, that was never going to succeed, that I was too loud getting put on report card, [00:40:00] then going into, um, you know, working for other people. I think I always [00:40:05] had such a business mindset, you know, when I started my candle business. But then I was still working for other people, [00:40:10] and I hated that I was working my ass off for someone else’s [00:40:15] dream. I always hated that. So I knew I was I knew I was better than than [00:40:20] working for someone else. It’s absolutely fine with that. People do that and that’s absolutely fine. Do you think I just.

Speaker3: Feel like that [00:40:25] Payman that they don’t like working their asses off for other people’s dream or not? Do you think because.

Speaker4: It’s it’s the reason why [00:40:30] people start their own practices, isn’t it? Because it’s not necessarily about the the cash. [00:40:35] It’s about the control over what the thing is, right.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: And I think that’s [00:40:40] what I had. And that’s why I ended up, um, starting up siren. I just, you know, I always wanted to do something on my [00:40:45] own. I found my love of social media. I found my love for TikTok. And it got to a point where I was like, [00:40:50] I can do this on my own. And so, yeah. Then siren, would.

Speaker4: You get your first customers? [00:40:55]

Speaker1: Um, who are my.

Speaker5: Came to get [00:41:00] my teeth whitened. And so.

Speaker4: Were you. A dentist?

Speaker3: Actually, I’ll tell you now, what happened was, [00:41:05] is that for some reason, I got, you know, how you get all these generic emails and you’re like, you never respond. But for [00:41:10] some reason, I opened it and the email was literally like, we love your account. We’re a tick tock agency. [00:41:15] We help growth. La la la. We love everything you’re about. So I arranged then for a meeting with the company [00:41:20] that she was at, and then I was like, this is a massive punt. And by the way, it was a big investment. [00:41:25] Tick tock wasn’t that big at that time. It was still like a little bit early. It was just after lockdown [00:41:30] and then I just fell in love with Ellie, like everything about her. Like she was getting my receptionist [00:41:35] to do dance routines. She was like getting my staff members [00:41:40] to do, like, do you know what I mean? Like all that pointy stuff.

Speaker4: Your endodontist was telling me he trended.

Speaker3: Yeah, [00:41:45] yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you imagine? Like, I was even getting Aram, like, you know how specialists are, like, [00:41:50] I’m not doing any of that stuff. And they’re so scared of, like, the professor’s judging them. Yeah, but she got them. And I was like, wow, [00:41:55] this is incredible. And I was like, I need her in house. But the thing is, is that I would always I would never sort of want to box [00:42:00] someone up like she had to fly. And the thing is, is that she wanted to spread her wings and then the company that [00:42:05] she was with it, just like our visions didn’t align because as I said, like, and you know, with enlighten as well, [00:42:10] you either have a choice in business, like you become a big corporation and you lose [00:42:15] the personal touch and the personal relationships, or you stick with the personal people and continue [00:42:20] harnessing those relationships. And the beautiful thing about enlighten is, you know, is that you like that personability, you know, whereas like [00:42:25] your competitor brands are like about the big number at the end, for example, you know, so I think that [00:42:30] and they don’t necessarily they just care about volume necessarily companies.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker3: Yeah. But to be honest, [00:42:35] and that’s the thing that’s like with Chelsea Dental, people are like, do you want 40 Chelsea Dental don’t really want that because I like, [00:42:40] like that special touch that we give people. So as her human touch. And then when she started [00:42:45] her own thing, I was like, right. You know, I was like, I need to find her again. Um, I [00:42:50] need to find her again. And I did. And then Ellie and I started working together, and I recommended [00:42:55] her to all of my, um, friends, and they were, like, astounded [00:43:00] by the growth that they’ve had on social media. And it makes your life so easy. Payman. Because [00:43:05] all of the scripts, all of the posts, everything trending on one page, [00:43:10] done in a day, that’s it. You know what I mean? You know.

Speaker4: So when when you started [00:43:15] TikTok, when was it? What was it? Was there a particular video that [00:43:20] made you think, I can do this? Um, and also what how much of [00:43:25] it is science and how much of it is art?

Speaker1: That’s actually a very good question. So to answer the first [00:43:30] one, I think, um, what was the first one again?

Speaker4: Was there a particular video you made that trended? [00:43:35]

Speaker1: So I think the first one that we did with the first one that we did with [00:43:40] you, with the things that dentists can tell about your mouth.

Speaker3: Oh, that trended, [00:43:45] you know what I’m talking about.

Speaker1: We did too. So we did one with Sarah. And I think that got [00:43:50] that got to like 3.5 million. And then we did one with you. We did a part two because it [00:43:55] did so well. And that got to about 9 million or something. And it was a bit like, oh my gosh, okay. But [00:44:00] I think it’s not, it’s it’s not just the views. Tiktok isn’t just about the views. It’s about building [00:44:05] a community and a loyal community. And, you know, people coming in the comments and like, so yeah, [00:44:10] it’s great to go viral, but to be able to have that community and the people that follow you and come back for [00:44:15] each post and comment and interact and save and share, that’s what is so [00:44:20] great about it. And I think it’s not just the on app consequences, it’s the off app consequences too. So, [00:44:25] you know, you can do a really good video and then you open up the, um, you know, your news tab [00:44:30] on your, on Google and you’re, you’re in okay magazine.

Speaker3: Not just Stewart bags. [00:44:35] They, they did a thing called vaping tongue. Stewart was contacted by like six different national newspapers [00:44:40] and asked to go on the radio about vaping.

Speaker1: Radio vape.

Speaker4: Vape is one of those trending subjects, [00:44:45] isn’t it?

Speaker5: Yeah. Vaping people want to send.

Speaker4: It to people to say stop vaping.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: So all that [00:44:50] kind of stuff and, you know, brand partnerships that come from it and it’s it’s not just about the views [00:44:55] and going viral.

Speaker4: But so let’s talk about the science part and the art part. So, you know, in [00:45:00] my crappy little knowledge is all right. First three seconds. Yes.

Speaker1: So the first three seconds. Yeah.

Speaker4: Very important [00:45:05] I noticed when when you do your vids you don’t start with hi I’m Rona. You never start with [00:45:10] the hook. Exactly.

Speaker3: So she always gives me the hook and the negative hook because we want to tell our audience like a.

Speaker5: Like [00:45:15] a.

Speaker4: Sensational hook. So you’ll say something like, can your teeth make you [00:45:20] sexier than you are? Like, that would be the hook. Yeah, whatever. Whatever it is.

Speaker3: Or I think three things I would [00:45:25] never do.

Speaker5: As a dentist.

Speaker3: Says the negative, negative, the negative.

Speaker1: Numbers, they all work very [00:45:30] well. And then you come in with your authority. So the three seconds are the most important. You have [00:45:35] three seconds. Tick tock. The people. Yeah. Scroll exactly. They have no attention span. [00:45:40] So you have three seconds to grab them. But you also don’t want to grab them like in a clickbaity way where it’s like, [00:45:45] um, you know, oh, I’ll say something really important and then not and exactly. And then not follow up with it. So [00:45:50] saying that big hook, um, talking about what it is, introducing who you are, why [00:45:55] are you an authority to give me this piece of knowledge? Um, and then. So keeping them hanging for [00:46:00] a bit longer because the five to second seven second mark is just as important as the three seconds. [00:46:05]

Speaker4: So for the reach.

Speaker1: Yes, exactly. So yes, get them at the three seconds. But then you need to follow it up. So [00:46:10] give them the three the three second hook. Follow it up with who you are and why you’re an authority. Give [00:46:15] them a little bit more information about what you’re going to chat about and then go into, you know, your three things.

Speaker4: And [00:46:20] so I’d call all of that the science. Yeah. What about what about the art.

Speaker1: And the art? The art I guess [00:46:25] that’s the creativity side. So what’s trending and what are people talking about this week? What’s happening in [00:46:30] the news. So for example, um, you know, I did a video with a couple of clients the other week about, um, [00:46:35] Kylie Jenner showed up to the red carpet extremely naturally done with her makeup. [00:46:40] Um, you know, and everyone was talking about how her filler looked so bad. Filler was basically she looked really bad. [00:46:45] Um, and that had just happened. And I jumped on that with a client, um, Doctor [00:46:50] Divine, uh, he actually did it. Um, he did it off the back of my me and another client. So I actually did this with, [00:46:55] um, a separate client, and we jumped on it, and she, she does facial aesthetics, and she’s [00:47:00] basically spoke about how, um, Kylie Jenner has definitely had, like, under-eye filler. It could be a few other [00:47:05] things, but I think this is what it is. And we jumped on it because it was trending and it overnight got to [00:47:10] 2 million views overnight. Everyone talking about it in the comments, everyone sharing about it. So you know it’s [00:47:15] being reactive. It’s all about jumping on things that are um, on trend and being reactive. [00:47:20] And I always say for TikTok, you need to show up and you need to talk about three different. [00:47:25] It needs to you need you need to either fall into three different categories. You either need to entertain, educate [00:47:30] or, um, provide emotion. And I think the audience needs to get [00:47:35] something, get one of those three things from your video for it to do well and for it to speak to people. So you’re either, you know, [00:47:40] doing something really, really funny that’s hilarious and going to go viral and be silly. You’re going on to educate, which [00:47:45] is normally what I do with my clients. You know, they all have something to say. They all have a piece to educate about. [00:47:50] Um, or you need to draw out the emotion and that always does well the storytelling, the pulling at the heartstrings. [00:47:55] You know, you’re very good at that kind of side.

Speaker3: So one thing was obviously [00:48:00] like when I sent Ellie a couple of clients, they’re incredible dentists, really [00:48:05] talented. But, um, they were getting frustrated that they weren’t getting viral. And it was also [00:48:10] like they were too obsessed with the way other professionals would perceive [00:48:15] them. Yeah. Does that make sense? Which I think is a challenge. And it’s like, you know, I’ve got like Doctor Rona Academy now [00:48:20] and loads of like my students are amazing, um, young women and like a lot of them [00:48:25] come to me because they feel like they could relate to me and talk to me about certain things. And it’s really interesting because I’m like, have you started [00:48:30] an Instagram? And they’re like, no, I’m really scared. And I’m like, start the first post with [00:48:35] like a photo of yourself explaining who you are. Like, think like decide on a logo. Do you know what’s the one [00:48:40] thing that holds them back? Dentists from starting social media? Guess what it.

Speaker5: Is other.

Speaker4: Dentists seeing [00:48:45] their work.

Speaker3: They worried about the judgement. The judgement of what other people will think of their [00:48:50] page.

Speaker1: Yeah, that is a massive thing. That’s that’s a big thing that you see that clients. Oh, 100%, [00:48:55] 100%. That’s probably the biggest thing. I actually did a TikTok video myself about the one thing. [00:49:00] What is the one thing that’s holding people back from succeeding on TikTok? And it is themselves and not being able to get [00:49:05] over the cringe or get over the fact that they’re scared that that’s going to flop. And for me, I’ve just [00:49:10] always been that kind of person where it’s like, just post it, like, just fuck it and post it. Yeah.

Speaker3: That’s right. [00:49:15]

Speaker1: Um, just like, just post it. So what? It flops. So what, you get 300, 300, [00:49:20] 400 views, you show up again and you post again. And that is what’s so important. The consistency [00:49:25] showing up and posting. And if you can’t get over that cringe, you’re not going to succeed on TikTok. [00:49:30] You’re not going to do well.

Speaker4: You know what though, Bruno? Yeah. When I saw you start doing TikTok, I was I [00:49:35] wasn’t aware of you today.

Speaker3: But she wasn’t in the picture at the beginning. Maybe.

Speaker5: Yeah, but.

Speaker4: I [00:49:40] took my hat off to you. Yeah. Because, you know, it’s difficult when you’ve got 100,000 followers [00:49:45] on one platform to go on to another platform where you haven’t got many followers and [00:49:50] fail day after day after day and keep going. Yeah, I was.

Speaker3: Literally on like ten views and at [00:49:55] that time going.

Speaker5: At it, making more and more and more.

Speaker3: Dog doctor shady was [00:50:00] like killed it because she was like one of our the dentists first on it and she like grew astronomically overnight. [00:50:05] Like she was the one that started like the turkey teeth sort of chat. Yeah. Um, but I was and I was like, I hate [00:50:10] TikTok. So Gen Z, it’s not me. But then I was like, self-limiting belief. And also [00:50:15] like, are you being a bit competitive? Like, you’ve just got to go on and can I tell you now, I way prefer TikTok than Instagram because there’s [00:50:20] less dentists on there and there’s less of that trolling and that like weirdness on there as well.

Speaker5: Well, I.

Speaker4: Prefer [00:50:25] it as a consumer.

Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker5: Think it’s much better.

Speaker4: So the algorithm is it’s on.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: There’s [00:50:30] something about the algorithm isn’t it.

Speaker1: Yeah. It’s the algorithm is ever changing. But the how [00:50:35] do.

Speaker3: You keep up with.

Speaker1: It. So yeah, anyone that tells you that they know the algorithm or [00:50:40] they’ve cracked the algorithm is lying to you. You cannot crack the algorithm. You don’t know what the algorithm is, but [00:50:45] you can learn to adapt to it and grow with it and understand it. Um, [00:50:50] but essentially everyone’s algorithm is different. You know, what you see on your for You page is the thing that gets you all addicted. [00:50:55] So, you know, if you watch a video about dogs. And you watch the video all the way [00:51:00] through, from beginning to end. Tick tock goes straight away. Wow, they loved that video because they [00:51:05] watched it all the way through. So they’re going to start showing you more videos about dogs. If you comment [00:51:10] on the video and tag someone oh my god, check out this dog video or you share it again. Same thing [00:51:15] and you keep doing it. Things like that. So all this kind of engagement that you’re doing is telling tick tock [00:51:20] and telling the algorithm, oh, I really like that piece of content. So you’ll start seeing more of it and more of it. And [00:51:25] that’s how it gets so addictive. Um, so yeah, but the algorithm for everyone is different, [00:51:30] and it all depends on how you engage with specific content as to what you’re going [00:51:35] to see on your for you page. So yes, you can’t crack the algorithm, you can’t understand it.

Speaker4: But one of the things [00:51:40] is it defaults to the for you page. Yeah. Whereas Instagram doesn’t. Yes [00:51:45] Instagram has it discover right?

Speaker1: Yes.

Speaker4: The explore page doesn’t doesn’t. Yeah. Default [00:51:50] to it. So you might go there. Yes.

Speaker1: But I think um for me I that’s [00:51:55] why I, I love um sort of tick tock for top of the reach top of the funnel [00:52:00] marketing because Instagram for me is more about community and how you’ve got your followers and you post [00:52:05] what you’re up to and it’s lovely and it’s it’s very filtered and people can click on it and like it. [00:52:10] Whereas Tick Tock is completely raw, completely unfiltered, completely new. You’re [00:52:15] you’re defaulted to that for you page. You’re going to see things you’ve never seen before from videos.

Speaker3: But I also think [00:52:20] Gen Z are a little bit just more sassy as well as in like, I think that they like to be involved in lots of [00:52:25] different issues and have lots of different opinions, and I.

Speaker5: Think [00:52:30] it’s.

Speaker4: Still a Gen Z platform.

Speaker1: No, it’s not really.

Speaker5: Every all of.

Speaker4: My friends are on [00:52:35] it.

Speaker5: My buddies, the biggest.

Speaker1: Growing age group is like the 25 to 30s in both male and male and female. [00:52:40] Yeah, that’s like the biggest interesting. Um, yeah. There’s like it’s a very, very fast growing. [00:52:45] It’s. Yeah, definitely naive to say it’s still, you know, that dancey Tik Tok platform for [00:52:50] 18 year olds.

Speaker3: I remember those days like during lockdown. Yeah. Horrendous.

Speaker1: It’s not anymore as.

Speaker4: As [00:52:55] a, as a force for evil. So we can see as a force for good. Fine. Yes. [00:53:00] But one thing that happens to me is I go into this like death hole.

Speaker5: Yes. The rabbit hole scroll. [00:53:05] Yeah.

Speaker4: And and time just goes. Yeah. And I worry for my kids, [00:53:10] like my daughter’s not allowed it, but she’s found it on, on on YouTube anyway. Yeah. I mean YouTube shorts, [00:53:15] YouTube shorts.

Speaker5: It’s like, it’s like.

Speaker4: A crappy version of so but but you know, what does it do [00:53:20] to people’s mental health?

Speaker1: Yeah, I think any, any, any consumption of social [00:53:25] over consumption of social media is not good. I think, you know, that can be said for any social [00:53:30] media platform, not just TikTok. I think Instagram is just as damaging. It does. And the average [00:53:35] watch time is about 1.5 hours a day, so it is crazy.

Speaker3: The good [00:53:40] thing is, the good thing is about Ellie managing my TikTok. I spend a lot, lot, a lot longer on Instagram. [00:53:45] Whereas like every now and then I’m like, oh, Ellie’s just posted, let me see how that video’s done. But [00:53:50] I don’t spend hours and hours on it. Do you see what I mean? Like every now and then I might go, but I don’t get into [00:53:55] I get more into a scrolling. And also the messaging service on TikTok is [00:54:00] like a lot less. Yeah, it’s weird. So you can’t be asked, as in, like with Instagram, you can do a whole like just replying [00:54:05] to DMs situation. Yeah. Um, I want to ask you as well, do you think timing matters? Because [00:54:10] you know how people get obsessed not only with what they post, but the time they post as well? Is that important? [00:54:15]

Speaker1: No, I don’t think that’s important at all on TikTok. I’ve tried all the different times I’ve tried, ahm, [00:54:20] I’ve tried 6 p.m.. Yeah, 1 p.m., 6 p.m. I normally do, um, and [00:54:25] it doesn’t make a difference. If it’s a good piece of content, it’s going to do well. It doesn’t matter when you post [00:54:30] it. A lot of people’s, um, follower time that they’re most active is normally around 10:11 p.m. [00:54:35] because they get into bed and they’re scrolling. So people think, oh, I’ll post around 10:11 p.m. [00:54:40] because that’s when my audience is all on. But TikTok doesn’t work like that. The algorithm is slow. It can take [00:54:45] two days for a video to start popping up on people’s for you pages just because something’s [00:54:50] just been posted. When it when your followers were active, doesn’t mean it’s instantly going to do well and blow up.

Speaker5: So [00:54:55] is there a.

Speaker4: Frequency, the number of posts a day?

Speaker1: That is so people I’ve seen a lot of people [00:55:00] that are on TikTok say you need to be you need to be posting 3 to 4 times a day to do well. You know, you need to [00:55:05] be posting 3 to 4 times a day. I don’t think that that’s true. Um, I my clients, for example, you know, we [00:55:10] post like once a day or once every weekday and they still do extremely well, [00:55:15] more like go way more viral and have way more followers and have way more engaged of an engaged community. [00:55:20] Then I think.

Speaker3: When it.

Speaker1: Started, yeah, maybe.

Speaker3: When it started, not now, but.

Speaker1: Now [00:55:25] I don’t think. I think as long as you’re consistent, whether that’s, you know, showing up every day or as much [00:55:30] as you can, it’s I think it’s not taking those big breaks, you know, posting every day and then falling [00:55:35] off for two weeks because you can’t be bothered.

Speaker4: About the fact that, like when something comes up on my on [00:55:40] my thing that I like, right, I’m not going to immediately follow them. I’m going to go on to their page [00:55:45] and see if there’s more of that. Yeah. And if there is more of that, I might follow them. Yes. But [00:55:50] what that means is you end up doing to be successful. You could be quite narrow. Yep. [00:55:55]

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: That’s because if I, if I, if she says something. I like, and then I go on to a page [00:56:00] and there isn’t much else of her talking. Yeah, then I’m not going to follow that [00:56:05] page. And it means, like tactically, you’re sort of limiting each page to [00:56:10] a small amount of things. Is that right?

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker3: Well, we tried this as well, like I said to Ellie, because, [00:56:15] you know, I’m like obviously passionate about like fashion and things like that. I was like, oh, I really want to [00:56:20] do like those like, you know, styled with me and get ready with me. And like we did a few [00:56:25] and some of them did okay, but they really didn’t do as well as my Dental ones. And [00:56:30] she was like, listen, we’ve placed you as an educator. That’s why people like your page. We [00:56:35] can’t go too off piste just because you want to do it. And it’s interesting because Shivani said the same as well, [00:56:40] because when I said finally, like you’ve just thrown in 100,000 followers on Instagram, I was like, it’s amazing. She’s like, [00:56:45] oh, I’m not that bothered. She was like, you know, video is going viral. Doesn’t lead to me having more subscribers on [00:56:50] YouTube or like Spotify, which is where I’m looking for it. She’s like, because it’s a video that went viral. She’s [00:56:55] like, whereas I need people. She’s like, the reason you convert to a follower is if someone sees [00:57:00] your piece of content and then they go on your page and they’ll only follow you if they think that your page will provide [00:57:05] value. Just because they’ve interacted with your video doesn’t mean it will, like turn into a follower. [00:57:10] Does that make sense? You know, so I think it’s like important that you understand it’s that typical [00:57:15] thing. Simon Sinek know your why. Why are you building this page 100%?

Speaker1: It’s essential [00:57:20] to have a niche. You don’t want a niche down too much to to like an extreme niche, but [00:57:25] you don’t want to be too broad where you’re like tapping into different things. You’re not going to get followers because people are like, [00:57:30] I’m not interested in this. What are they even posting about? However, if you’re providing a specific amount of value [00:57:35] on a certain topic that people are interested in, you’re going to get that follower base. And [00:57:40] so it’s important to stay consistent and stick and stick within your niche like we’ve tried other things. [00:57:45] And it can work. And it’s good to show other aspects but always come back to that [00:57:50] niche, I think. And that’s I think what’s important to keep that consistency.

Speaker4: Tiktok influencers, are they different to, [00:57:55] you know, you’d imagine Instagram classic pretty girl influencer. Yeah. Oh it’s a different type [00:58:00] of influencer right.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: Because I think again, it’s that whole, you know, Instagram is all about being pretty and filters [00:58:05] and editing. And there are on TikTok.

Speaker3: I’ve seen stunning girls promote makeup.

Speaker1: Yeah, it’s more but I think it’s more [00:58:10] about, um, storytelling. Whereas Instagram, you know, you post a video. Yeah, you might do a reel, [00:58:15] but I think for TikTok it’s more unfiltered. It’s more, you know, vlogging style. Come with me today. [00:58:20]

Speaker3: There’s a girl I follow in, uh, um, New York, and she always tell us how funny dating [00:58:25] stories, and she’s, like, doing her makeup. She’s beautiful and she’s literally. So everyone asks me about [00:58:30] the dating app Raya. So I’m going to give you my opinion on Raya, but she’s also doing her makeup. And people [00:58:35] in the comments are like, where’s your foundation from? Like.

Speaker4: I even follow someone you know, she speaks [00:58:40] really quickly. Do you know her? Mad, mad, mad mad. She talks really [00:58:45] quickly, but she’s doing her makeup and she’s talking about some dates she’s been on.

Speaker5: Oh yeah, and they probably.

Speaker1: Talk about how they’ve [00:58:50] got five minutes to get ready.

Speaker3: As well. She does. Those stars don’t take chance literally.

Speaker1: That’s actually the number [00:58:55] one. Um, the number one most loved type of video on TikTok is the get ready with me one night. [00:59:00]

Speaker5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker1: So getting ready and chatting. People love it because you’re, you know, you’re telling maybe [00:59:05] a fun story, but then you’re also getting ready and people love to like, find out where your makeup is from and all that kind of stuff. And [00:59:10] it’s storytelling again.

Speaker5: Do you think.

Speaker4: You know Instagram? We know what Dental Instagram is. [00:59:15] Yeah, there’s before and afters. There’s yes, there’s there’s sort of um, [00:59:20] you know, pictures, videos, you know, dentist educating. But we’re not really [00:59:25] sure what Dental TikTok is. You know, there aren’t you know, there’s who’s been [00:59:30] successful on TikTok. Shardae.

Speaker5: Laura.

Speaker4: Laura you little right. You’ve got to put yourself [00:59:35] in it for foodie dentist.

Speaker3: She’s she surged.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: Who else. But you know what I mean. If I’ve [00:59:40] got a dental practice and I want a dental practice TikTok page. Are we just [00:59:45] talking dental.

Speaker3: We’re on 21 K now. I know.

Speaker4: But are we just talking? But it’s got to be the [00:59:50] same thing. Education from the dentist? No, no.

Speaker3: Because for example.

Speaker5: It was it wasn’t. It’s not clear [00:59:55] yet. It’s very clear in Instagram.

Speaker3: No, no it has to be. That’s the thing. That’s why Ellie is so great. And that’s why, like Payman, you and I are [01:00:00] very similar in the fact that we’ve always invested in these types of services. A lot of dentists [01:00:05] don’t want to invest in these services. They’re like, why would I pay someone to do this? They don’t see the [01:00:10] value in it. But like for example, the Chelsea Dental one everyone loves like our receptionist, our [01:00:15] TCO. So she does these videos with them, for example, showing their personality but.

Speaker4: Not teeth, right? [01:00:20]

Speaker3: No teeth as well. We show.

Speaker5: Everything afters.

Speaker3: Yeah, we’ll talk about it.

Speaker5: Do them in a different way.

Speaker1: Yes [01:00:25] we do. We normally do like a green screen that sort.

Speaker5: Of pointing to that.

Speaker1: Thing, like showing that the images behind Stuart’s. [01:00:30]

Speaker3: Work, this is Anna’s cleaning, do you know what I mean? But it will also like there’s one of my favourite [01:00:35] videos, Mary, my receptionist, who everyone loves. She gets all these dental tools and she’s like, Mary, [01:00:40] guess I’ll have to show you later. So she takes out the mirror and Mary’s like mirror. She gets out a probe and she’s [01:00:45] like, oh, she’s like, she’s like something to do with the hygienist, you know what I mean? It’s really funny, [01:00:50] really. People like watching that because it’s really funny.

Speaker1: But I what the reason why I love TikTok [01:00:55] for like dentists and in the dental world is I just think they’re. Is people are obsessed with [01:01:00] teeth, teeth whitening, bonding, veneers like people want to see the results. People [01:01:05] want to know, like what they can do at home. Um, to Hashtag Teeth Talk has got over [01:01:10] 3 billion views. Really? Yeah. It’s crazy. When I first did you know that teeth talk. I always used that that [01:01:15] in my videos. And, you know, when I first started it was on maybe like a few million. It’s now on about 3 billion views. [01:01:20] People searching for that, that hashtag turkey.

Speaker3: Teeth is like turkey.

Speaker1: Teeth. You know, when you do a video [01:01:25] about turkey teeth. Oh my gosh, the virality.

Speaker3: So how dangerous do you think it is for your business [01:01:30] not to have social media? One and number two not get on board with TikTok? [01:01:35]

Speaker1: Yeah, I think it’s essential for businesses now to be on TikTok. Both of them. [01:01:40] Both. Um, I think, you know, it’s TikTok is where everyone is at now. Like that [01:01:45] is the platform where everyone is at. If you’re going to be, you know, doing paid ads, for example, then [01:01:50] do them on TikTok. Facebook is dead for paid advertisements. So if you’re doing ads on Facebook, [01:01:55] it’s like, fine. But I think on TikTok, you know, being able to implement, [01:02:00] um, into the sort of TikTok style. So, you know, whether you’re using the TikTok influencers, as [01:02:05] you mentioned before, you know, using your product in their morning routine.

Speaker3: I literally did a parlour video that got [01:02:10] 8 million views organically. 8 million. I’ll never forget that. And why? Because [01:02:15] that cheek retractors and that was my hook, you know.

Speaker1: See, you’re you’re you’re you’re acclimatising [01:02:20] to the TikTok platform. You’re doing.

Speaker5: Something that a lot.

Speaker4: Of stuff off.

Speaker5: Really?

Speaker1: Yeah, [01:02:25] really. I’m a bit of a TikTok shocker.

Speaker5: Really?

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker4: It’s frictionless as well. [01:02:30] Like from from deciding to buy it. To buy it. It’s like one button and it arrives here.

Speaker5: You get a buyer’s [01:02:35] remorse.

Speaker4: A lot of it’s crap.

Speaker5: A lot of.

Speaker4: It is crap somehow. Yeah. And that’s the thing, [01:02:40] you know, is there a is there room for saying, hey, this thing isn’t crap, I’m selling it on TikTok, [01:02:45] you know?

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely I yeah.

Speaker3: Well, it’s been really insightful [01:02:50] having you today. Thank you so much for coming on and telling us about your journey. But I know Payman wanted [01:02:55] to ask you, um, earlier, and I think it’s a really good way to end. What are the three top things that [01:03:00] you would tell people listening about TikTok if they want to get started or if [01:03:05] they want to understand it?

Speaker1: So I would say number one is to be consistent. [01:03:10] So I think I mentioned a few of these points before. But consistency is key on TikTok. So showing [01:03:15] up whether you’re showing up once a day, if you really want to show up 3 to 4 times a day, great. It’s not [01:03:20] going to make much difference if you show up once or 3 or 4 times, but showing up and staying consistent, [01:03:25] not dropping off, um, getting over that cringe or getting over that fear [01:03:30] of I’m not going to do well. And that’s that’s the biggest, biggest thing that is holding people back [01:03:35] is I’m too scared. I’m too scared. Just fucking post it. Yeah. And and if it [01:03:40] doesn’t do well. So what you go back to the consistency, you show up and you post it again. Um, [01:03:45] and number three I think is this three tips for doing well on TikTok. I think engagement [01:03:50] is key as well. So, um, engaging with your your following and [01:03:55] the people on on the platform. So if you do a post, don’t just come off the app. Um, you know, go [01:04:00] onto your For You page, scroll through, have a look at what other people are doing. You know, whether it’s other people in your niche [01:04:05] or not. Um, interact with them. Click comments. Um, you know, like [01:04:10] it? Make a comment. You know, then they’re likely to click onto your profile and have a look. Oh, who’s this person that’s just [01:04:15] commented? Even if it’s not a viral video, even if that person’s just posted it and they’ve not got many [01:04:20] views, be the first person to comment on their video. Show them that you’re interested. Oh, this is a really cool video, [01:04:25] I love it. Um, thanks for the tips. You know, something like that. Um, so engaging. If you’ve got [01:04:30] comments, answer all the comments. Don’t just leave your followers hanging if someone’s commented on your video, [01:04:35] this is a great video. Say thank you. So interacting because they’re more.

Speaker5: Likely courtesy. [01:04:40]

Speaker4: That courtesy side of it as as sort of like like.

Speaker5: Instagram I. [01:04:45]

Speaker1: Think so Humanises you. Yeah, I don’t think I mean, some of.

Speaker3: Them are crazy. Like when I did the Jacob Elordi [01:04:50] video, this person commented and said, uh, bit gross. Aren’t you old enough to be his mum [01:04:55] or something like that? I would have to be ten years old if I had him as a child, you know what I mean? Like, that’s the kind of. [01:05:00]

Speaker5: Stuff the hate of. Is the hate.

Speaker3: Different? No, it hates worse on TikTok.

Speaker5: Yeah. You can get a lot of.

Speaker3: Melissa’s wardrobe was [01:05:05] like, it’s horrendous. Yeah.

Speaker5: The hates words.

Speaker1: Can get you can get a lot of hate. But that’s the thing I think [01:05:10] if it’s if it’s hate to a like a very, very bad level, then we can like remove the comments. [01:05:15] However, if it’s just a bit of hate, I think it’s great to have it on there, like interact with them as [01:05:20] well and show them why they’re there. Comment is hateful, you know. Don’t hide that. Hide away those negative [01:05:25] comments because you’re always going to get things like that. I think it’s important to keep that, keep them up. [01:05:30] Um, you know, unless they’re obviously very, very bad, I think it’s important to keep them up and, you know, interact [01:05:35] with them and play a bit with them as well. You know, if they say a stupid comment, make an even more stupid [01:05:40] comment back, and you start getting love from the people that follow you, that do like you, that kind of back you up [01:05:45] and it keeps the engagement going. Just thank them. Thank them for giving me the engagement. Thanks for your comment. [01:05:50] You’ve just helped boost my video to hundreds more people.

Speaker3: Yeah it’s true.

Speaker5: So yeah. Interesting. There [01:05:55] we go.

Speaker3: So thank you so much Ellie.

Speaker1: Thank you.

Speaker3: Think you’re mate. I think you’re amazing. And for dentists [01:06:00] that are scared to take that plunge, as I said, I have a fully paid service with Ellie. I bring her on because [01:06:05] I genuinely think she changed my life and managed my managers to continue to manage [01:06:10] my social media and just really like, brings the fun and energy to the team. So hope you [01:06:15] found that useful. As I said, her agency’s siren agency and you can follow her on TikTok [01:06:20] too as Ellie Bratt, thank you so much. Thank you guys.

Speaker5: Thank you.

Speaker1: Bye. [01:06:25]

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