Speaker1: So I did originally work on other channels I originally had. I originally was a social media manager for all [00:00:05] channels, and I just saw the growth on TikTok, the potential, the reach, um, [00:00:10] and just how you’re able to get into such into, you know, the hearts of billions [00:00:15] of people. It’s the first one of the fastest growing apps in the world, um, you know, almost 2 billion active [00:00:20] users. So it’s very, very, um, you know, growing at a rapid, rapid pace. So I just [00:00:25] think the the growth that I’ve seen and the potential on on app, on and [00:00:30] off app, um, is amazing.

Speaker2: This is [00:00:35] mind movers. Moving the conversation forward on mental [00:00:40] health and optimisation for dental professionals. Your hosts [00:00:45] Rhona Eskander and Payman Langroudi.

Speaker3: Hi [00:00:50] everyone. Welcome back to Mind Movers. Payman says I’m not allowed to call it season two, but [00:00:55] because it is a new year, I’m going to call it season two. And we are your co-hosts Payman, Langroudi [00:01:00] and Doctor Rona. Today I have an incredible woman, Eloise Bratt. [00:01:05] She looks like a Bratz doll. Have you ever seen the Bratz dolls? No. Have you never seen them? I look.

Speaker1: Like [00:01:10] a x.

Speaker4: Y, z a Gen x, Gen y, Gen z. No, Gen-X just doesn’t [00:01:15] know about Bratz dolls. Man. What is it?

Speaker3: A Bratz dolls are like those dolls. They look like Barbies, but not Barbies. They’re a little bit [00:01:20] more real edgy edgy than Barbie. Anyway, she does look like a Bratz doll.

Speaker1: It [00:01:25] was like Bratz or Barbie. You always one or the other. I was always a Bratz Bratz doll girl, to be fair.

Speaker3: So [00:01:30] we really want to continue bringing you guys things that are [00:01:35] of value. And I think today’s episode is going to be very interesting because Eloise started [00:01:40] a social media agency. We’re going to go into her whole childhood how she started [00:01:45] it, but she’s in fact my Tik Tok manager for both my personal brand and my Chelsea [00:01:50] Dental brand. And one of the big questions that I get asked is, Rona, how do you do it all? My [00:01:55] answer is I delegate and one of the delegation is outsourcing things, and so [00:02:00] I can spend my time on the things that I love. I love social media, we all know that. But you know, me and Ellie bounce off each [00:02:05] other. She comes, she takes the videos and then she posts them. Ellie has a very interesting [00:02:10] history and heritage within her own family line, and also she got to where [00:02:15] she did through determination, dedication and just really [00:02:20] believing in herself. So today’s episode is going to be about mental health, but also about how to build [00:02:25] a tick tock brand and how to do it. So welcome, Ellie.

Speaker1: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m very [00:02:30] happy to be here.

Speaker3: So, Ellie, I want you to start from the beginning. I’m getting some of my [00:02:35] sort of questions up for the prompts that I, that I wrote down because there was so much information. [00:02:40] But I want you to start from the beginning, and I want you to share a bit about your childhood, the environment that you grew up in, [00:02:45] and how you think your early years shaped who you are.

Speaker1: I, [00:02:50] I think I had quite a normal childhood, to be fair, like I there was nothing in my childhood [00:02:55] that was, you know, not normal to me that nothing. You know, my parents [00:03:00] were together. I was brought up in a loving home. And my mum, my dad, my sister, myself. [00:03:05] Um, so I always had that, you know, that close knit family growing up. My my, [00:03:10] um, parents are like one of four each. So I’ve always grown up with, like, big family [00:03:15] and everyone’s very close. And I’ve always had that nice family, uh, family [00:03:20] behind like family net behind me. Um, so, yeah, growing up, you know, it was just an Essex. [00:03:25] I went to a normal school. Nothing. You know, crazy happened. It was honestly [00:03:30] just a very normal childhood.

Speaker3: So you talk about your childhood being normal, but obviously [00:03:35] on this podcast, we go deeper and really try to spend some time and understanding the psychology of individuals [00:03:40] and how it shaped who they are. I know that your grandfather was a Holocaust victim, [00:03:45] which you’ve told me about before, and we’ve mentioned things like generational trauma. So do you want to tell [00:03:50] us a little bit about what your grandfather went through and how you felt it affected your family throughout? [00:03:55]

Speaker1: Yeah. So growing up, um, obviously, I said that we had a very, very normal childhood, [00:04:00] which we did. Um, because he never really spoke about anything for quite a [00:04:05] long time. And it wasn’t until, um, he got to his 70s, I think, that my, my [00:04:10] Nana sort of pushed him and was like, okay, you need to like, stop talking about it. Um, so growing up for [00:04:15] us, we didn’t really know too much about it. But for my parents, there was always this elephant. Sorry. [00:04:20] Like my mum and her siblings, there was always this elephant in the room. They knew something happened. They [00:04:25] knew sort of what happened, but he never spoke about it. Um, so yeah, it wasn’t until my [00:04:30] Nana sort of pushed him to speak about it that he really started, um, you know, educating about what happened to him. [00:04:35] So, um, you know, my mental health does, like, typically run in my family, my, my mum [00:04:40] and her siblings, um, they’re all sort of, like, suffered bits with mental health, um, [00:04:45] through generational trauma because of what happened to him, because he always had this thing that affected [00:04:50] him when he was younger that he never spoke about. And I think that was always there for them growing up that, um, you [00:04:55] know, he just unwillingly passed it down to them, the trauma.

Speaker1: Um, so, yeah, mental [00:05:00] health definitely runs in my family and they’ve all had things that affected them. Um, and [00:05:05] they’re very, because of that, very, very open with mental health. Um, they, [00:05:10] they all want to sort of like get rid of the stigma about it. You know, if you’re on antidepressants, if you’re seeing a [00:05:15] therapist. So what, like that shouldn’t be something that you have to hide, that you feel that you need to hide. So [00:05:20] I’ve always been brought up around that. You know, if there’s something wrong, talk about it and, you know, share your feelings [00:05:25] and, um, get help if you need it. So that’s always been there. And I’m very lucky that I’ve had [00:05:30] that. I’ve never personally felt, um, you know, that I’ve had to, to [00:05:35] get to that length to get to, you know, speaking to someone or um, or anything [00:05:40] like that. But I know that if I needed to and there was one time where I almost needed to that [00:05:45] I could just chat to my family and they’d be there. And I love that I had. Growing up because [00:05:50] I know a lot of people don’t. Um, so I’m, I guess I’m very blessed that I’ve had that with my family.

Speaker3: Yeah. [00:05:55] Thank you for sharing that. And actually, Payman, do you know what generational trauma is?

Speaker4: I can guess, but [00:06:00] go ahead.

Speaker3: But also like where you’re from, for example, Iran and where I’m from in the Middle East, there were definitely [00:06:05] elements of that generational trauma. So we talked about this with Ellie, who is my Ellie. Um, [00:06:10] Ella who is my therapist, and she talks a lot about generational trauma. So it’s [00:06:15] essentially about the history and heritage of your own ancestors that [00:06:20] has been passed on. And what they’ve recently found is, is that there’s an epigenetic element to it. [00:06:25] So although people think like, is it a psychological thing that’s passed on, how can you quantify it? More [00:06:30] and more, they’re finding in DNA that you can pass on a trauma gene. So it’s really interesting. [00:06:35] And that’s because if you just don’t get over something or something like that. Um, so what kind of things [00:06:40] did your grandfather experience.

Speaker1: In back in the Holocaust? Oh, he was. [00:06:45] Yeah, he he, um, was born in Hungary. Um, he was around 13, I think, [00:06:50] uh, when the Holocaust happened. And, yeah, he went to Auschwitz. He was in the concentration [00:06:55] camp. Um, his entire family died. He was in a quite a religious family. He was like one [00:07:00] of eight. Um, they all they all died. They all got sent to the gas chambers or murdered. Apart from [00:07:05] him and his brother, they were the only two that survived. Wow. Um, and then, yeah, they came to England and [00:07:10] started up a family here. Um, and his his brother sadly died maybe ten or so years [00:07:15] ago now. So, yeah, he’s the only only one left. And yeah, there’s not many survivors nowadays. So, [00:07:20] um, my sister’s actually doing a really amazing thing called generation. Generation to generation, [00:07:25] where she generation to generation, where she essentially goes around to um, schools, [00:07:30] universities, workplaces and speaks about, um, his story. Um, [00:07:35] just because obviously there’s not going to be many chances for him to do it, you know. Yeah. Anymore. So it’s [00:07:40] incredible. Yeah. So yeah, there’s. Yeah. He’s amazing. He’s my biggest inspiration. [00:07:45] Um, yeah. And he came to England. Didn’t know the language. No family. Um, was in like a [00:07:50] boys school, like, grew up in, like, essentially care and started his own business [00:07:55] and got very, very successful. And he is where he is today, you know, beautiful family, [00:08:00] grandkids, great grandkids.

Speaker4: Hearing his story to that change. [00:08:05] Number one, change him once. He’d sort of laid it out. And did it change who [00:08:10] you thought you were as well?

Speaker1: Yeah I think definitely at first I think, [00:08:15] you know, knowing that he was a Holocaust survivor and, you know, you at school, you know, you [00:08:20] learn about things like the Holocaust or we did. We definitely did. And then sort of understanding, [00:08:25] oh, my grandfather’s a Holocaust survivor. And no one else saying, oh, me too was a bit like, [00:08:30] oh my gosh, that’s actually a big thing. I didn’t realise, you know, I was not one of many [00:08:35] that that had a Holocaust survivor as a grandparent. Um, so for me, definitely, [00:08:40] it was like, whoa, okay, this is quite a big thing. And I think that’s why my sister decided to do the [00:08:45] generation to generation because she was like, okay, I there’s not many of us grandchildren that have [00:08:50] got grand grandparents as survivors. Um, but so I think yeah, that’s why [00:08:55] it definitely makes me like, extremely, extremely proud. I think it’s, um, amazing. Like what he’s [00:09:00] achieved despite what he’s been through. Yeah. Um, and then I think for him, I [00:09:05] think he everything that he does and speaks about, he’s a BEM now. So he, [00:09:10] he got, um, he got the medal from the Queen and he’s done all of that. And he everything [00:09:15] for him is just about education. He doesn’t he would never um, he’s got a book out now, [00:09:20] but, like, he doesn’t ever want anything to be about him. It’s all about his story and what he went through. [00:09:25] Um, and just making sure that people don’t forget the the traumas and what happened, [00:09:30] um, to the people of the Holocaust. So, yeah, for him, I think it’s it’s now just about [00:09:35] the message. And I think he’s very, very glad that he was able to finally speak up about it. Yeah. [00:09:40]

Speaker3: Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Now I want to move on [00:09:45] to your school days. So how would you describe yourself as a student? Was there any [00:09:50] subjects or activities that you were particularly drawn to, like? Talk to us a little bit, because I know you and I have spoken [00:09:55] personally about it, but I want to share it with everyone else.

Speaker1: Yeah. Um, I think at school I [00:10:00] was never really like an academic person. I was quite chatty as well, a bit [00:10:05] naughty. I was on report card for a while, if, you know, report card back in the day. Um, in [00:10:10] the early years of school, um, and I think that was just because I never saw myself [00:10:15] as, um, you know, academic. I couldn’t concentrate properly in classes. I never felt [00:10:20] that I found an academic class that I truly liked, like maths, science. [00:10:25] I was really not into any of it. Um, English. I did particularly, like, I [00:10:30] actually really liked English. Um, English language. Um, I felt I definitely excel was a little bit more [00:10:35] there and then drama as well, and when that was a subject. So I loved all of that kind of, [00:10:40] um, those kind of topics. Yeah. Um, and then drama got discontinued at my school. [00:10:45] I didn’t even know that that was a thing, so I couldn’t I couldn’t do that anymore. Um. And then [00:10:50] in in GCSEs, English Literature, English language that I actually liked [00:10:55] wasn’t even a subject you could choose. So I ended up doing, um, English literature instead, [00:11:00] which I still sort of liked, but it wasn’t.

Speaker1: Wouldn’t have been my first choice. Um, and, you [00:11:05] know, I was doing all these other subjects and, you know, you’re told, you know, you need to do maths, you need to do triple science or [00:11:10] double science or all these kind of subjects. And I just never really enjoyed any of them. I absolutely [00:11:15] hated, you know, maths. I was never a good maths person. Um, but yeah, English [00:11:20] was okay for me, I liked it. Um, and then I think for, [00:11:25] um, I got okay GCSEs, I got like an A, four B’s, three C’s, [00:11:30] that kind of thing. Maybe a D in there somewhere. I was definitely science or maths. Um, and then it came round to [00:11:35] As levels. Um, and I ended up doing English, sociology, [00:11:40] uh, psychology and politics. Really? Yes. Politics, which I never, [00:11:45] ever would have had an interest in. Politics is something I am probably the least interested [00:11:50] in, but I don’t know if you had at school, you had to choose certain subjects that were in a column, and [00:11:55] you ended up doing subjects just because it was in that column and you had it fitted into the schedule.

Speaker3: But [00:12:00] dentistry, I think, is just way more, um, it there’s way more thought going [00:12:05] into it. Right? Because you have to do chemistry and biology and then you pick the other two and then by [00:12:10] nature you don’t.

Speaker4: Have to do biology.

Speaker3: Yeah you do.

Speaker4: I didn’t do biology.

Speaker3: Well, we had to when I was applying [00:12:15] because.

Speaker4: Chemistry and two sciences. But but but it’s an interesting point and two sciences. [00:12:20]

Speaker3: So it would have to be physics and biology. No. What’s the other sciences. Maths isn’t the science I.

Speaker4: Did [00:12:25] maths, physics, chemistry. Sorry.

Speaker3: Well okay. Einstein I’m sorry. Sorry. So [00:12:30] no.

Speaker4: I wish I did biology because it really put me in a bad situation and Dental school not having done, not having looked [00:12:35] down a microscope. Oh yeah. All that.

Speaker3: Stuff. Yeah. Fine.

Speaker4: But I’m interested in. Okay. So then [00:12:40] did you, did you enjoy politics?

Speaker1: I hated it, I absolutely hated it. I was like, why [00:12:45] am I why am I here? Why am I doing a subject that I absolutely hate just because it fit into a box on a schedule? [00:12:50] Um, so it literally got to a stage where I would be going home crying to my mum, like, what have I done? [00:12:55] And she she’s the one that told me, just, just forget it and focus on the ones that you like. [00:13:00] Um, anyway. And then I, um. Yeah. So I basically failed that. And I [00:13:05] actually did quite badly in English as well, in all of my subjects. I did quite badly in As [00:13:10] levels. Um, I got du as my, [00:13:15] As levels.

Speaker4: You haven’t got kids, have you?

Speaker1: No.

Speaker3: So she’s Gen Z, she’s like, she’s a kid. [00:13:20] You know.

Speaker4: You just have to say that before you say so. Do you think if you had kids or [00:13:25] when you have kids, do you think you’ll you’ll be more of an enforcer as far as studies [00:13:30] than your parents were? No. Were your parents enforcing studies or not?

Speaker1: Um, they were they [00:13:35] always were like, I, they were quite strict in that sense. I wasn’t allowed to, you know, um, you know, go and play with [00:13:40] my friends or do anything until I had done my homework or until I’d done, you know, certain amount of reading [00:13:45] or things like that. So they they definitely made sure I did my work. But I know there’s probably parents out there [00:13:50] that push their kids a lot more. However, why? You know, I clearly wasn’t academic, [00:13:55] so if they did push me more, it would have just made me, you know, rebel. Yeah. More frustrated, [00:14:00] I think.

Speaker3: I mean, I’d be interested to hear Paimon’s view on this, but we talk a lot about, um, the [00:14:05] immigrant motivation. Have you heard about this? Um, so, for example, my parents [00:14:10] pushed me so hard, me and my sister and I remember even being at school and not being able to [00:14:15] have a sick day, ever. I had chickenpox, and my dad goes, you’re going to school. It’s a waste [00:14:20] of £400 today if you didn’t. And we got sent to school with chickenpox and then sent home for being superspreaders, [00:14:25] you know what I mean? And the point is, is because they instilled so much hard work [00:14:30] in us. But there’s also a problem with that, because you feel that the only way that you’re really loved [00:14:35] by your parents is when you’re achieving, when you’re not achieving. Yeah. It’s a conditional love that you get an [00:14:40] A, or you pass this test or you get this accolade. And I think that’s quite dangerous [00:14:45] because as a result, although it’s made me very driven in my adult life, I feel like when I’m not achieving or when [00:14:50] I’m not being validated, I’m not good enough, and I do. I don’t want to blame my parents, because I do think our parents did [00:14:55] the best that they knew. But obviously coming from countries that were war torn and they they [00:15:00] came here for opportunity essentially, and work. They just instilled that hard work. What would you do with [00:15:05] your kid? Well, before you go on to that, my question is, did you have that or were your parents, what were [00:15:10] you first, second generation or what was it?

Speaker4: Yeah, I was six when I came. Yeah. In our house, studies were the only [00:15:15] thing that happened. No, that was, that was counted like, you know, so my [00:15:20] brother was always top of his class. Um, but he was really bad at. He was he was unkind. He was [00:15:25] angry. He was really. And none of that stuff counted. It was only where you were, your studies. And [00:15:30] I felt a degree of resentment because of that.

Speaker3: How did he develop then as an adult? How did that carry him through? [00:15:35]

Speaker4: Well, he still still the same. No, no, no, I wouldn’t go that far. But but but but you [00:15:40] know, in our house points were only given to academic stuff. So this is what I’m saying. I [00:15:45] even though my kids are pretty academic because my I was.

Speaker3: Gonna say, how do you treat them? With their [00:15:50] achievements. Do you think subconsciously.

Speaker4: My wife’s taken the mantle of the studies because they go to French school and [00:15:55] she speaks French? Yeah, yeah. Um, so I can just be the fun guy.

Speaker3: But [00:16:00] do you feel that when they fails at something, whether it’s sports or, you know, whatever it [00:16:05] is, how do you handle that as a father?

Speaker4: I try to I try and be different to to my upbringing. [00:16:10] But, you know, I’ve had people sit here and say, I wish my parents pushed me harder. Yes. [00:16:15] And I’ve had the opposite and many of those. Yeah. And I’ve had the opposite of, you [00:16:20] know, especially with some Asian parents. Right.

Speaker3: And in dentistry, I think it’s rife because a lot of them go into [00:16:25] dentistry or medicine for their parents. Yeah. They don’t go into it because they wanted to. And it’s very [00:16:30] interesting when you hear these people from these very strict Asian backgrounds saying, I hate dentistry, and [00:16:35] they actually end up going off and doing other things, or they totally.

Speaker4: My own brother, my own brother wanted to do something. [00:16:40] He was very good at maths. Yeah. Um, but, uh, he’s now a doctor. Yeah. [00:16:45] He’s still blames my parents at age 54.

Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow. [00:16:50] So it’s interesting how our childhood conditioned us. But back to payments. Yeah. [00:16:55] You know, would you do the same to your children? And do you think that it was helpful the way that your parents [00:17:00] treated you?

Speaker1: Definitely I think I they they were very [00:17:05] strict to an extent. So I think they knew that I wasn’t academic in that sense. [00:17:10] They knew I wasn’t going to do well in politics. They knew I wasn’t going to do well in maths. They knew I wasn’t going to do science. [00:17:15] So there, from their point of view, it was more like focus on the ones that you do like and you do think are going [00:17:20] to help you. Um, so then for, for my A levels from that I, [00:17:25] I dropped psychology, I dropped so I dropped politics obviously I got, I got, I [00:17:30] got using them um, and I essentially decided to take up [00:17:35] um media studies. So media studies was a thing at my school, but it was sort of looked down [00:17:40] upon as that my dad.

Speaker3: Would say it was a woowoo degree. There we.

Speaker1: Go. The BTec, the BTec in.

Speaker4: Media [00:17:45] Studies is the classic one that in, in, in, in that day, people used to think was [00:17:50] for people who didn’t who weren’t very bright. But it’s turned out to be. Yeah. Even the most important subjects [00:17:55] out there.

Speaker1: Yeah, exactly. There we go in today’s age. But yeah, like even much of the.

Speaker4: Media studies you did, did [00:18:00] it have anything to do with social media or was it.

Speaker1: Before? No, it was before. So it was more of actual media. But this is sort [00:18:05] of, I think where my, where my like original love for, for the media side of things [00:18:10] came out and where, where it made me realise you don’t need to have to be doing a maths class or a politics class [00:18:15] to be, to get sent to university, because I did want to go to university. You want to go? [00:18:20] I think I wanted to go more for the experience. Yeah, more for the experience. I’m not gonna lie. I’ve [00:18:25] living on my own, being with friends, that kind of thing. I went to Nottingham Trent. It wasn’t, you know, one of the redbrick universities. [00:18:30] But I did want to go. I wanted a degree and I. And at that time it [00:18:35] was still, um, you know, you had to normally go to university to get a good job at [00:18:40] the end. You know, most jobs were still then were you have to have a degree. It doesn’t matter what. [00:18:45]

Speaker4: You grown up in London.

Speaker1: Essex, Essex, Essex. Yeah. Where abouts? Um, Gants Hill originally. [00:18:50] Yeah. And then I moved to Loughton. Um, and that’s where my family are now. But yeah. So [00:18:55] I, it made me realise like, okay, you didn’t need to have, you know, the politics or the psychology [00:19:00] or the maths to, to to be able to do well and um, yeah. And even [00:19:05] with like the other subjects, you know, I, um, overheard teachers telling me, um, sorry, [00:19:10] I overheard teachers, my English teacher telling another teacher, you know, Eloise isn’t going to pass. Um, [00:19:15] she’s going to fail. She she did. She got a C last year. There’s no way she’s going to, uh. So she got a [00:19:20] D in her A-levels. There’s no way she’s going to do well in her A-levels. And that just kind of made [00:19:25] me determined to prove them wrong.

Speaker3: That was the same with me. Yeah. Um, we had a conversation [00:19:30] earlier, and Payman is probably going to disagree because he’s Payman. And, um, we [00:19:35] said actually with one of my other guests that there is also this poor conditioning [00:19:40] between boys and girls when you grow up, and that if you’re a very loud girl, you’re [00:19:45] really told off and you’re deemed to be bossy. And that was me as a child, like I was that loud [00:19:50] girl. Surprise, surprise. I’d get up in the classroom. I’d be like, like causing a little bit of [00:19:55] a a scene. But I was just like, I had like a degree of leadership. Does that make sense? [00:20:00] And that was definitely not something that was encouraged at [00:20:05] school. In a way. It was like, you have to be the good little quiet girl. And I feel that when you think of like [00:20:10] boys that were like perhaps a bit more boisterous, like maybe they didn’t get as [00:20:15] disciplined or told off as I did in that kind of school environment [00:20:20] if they were bossy. Um, I don’t know. But even just like thinking more of, like, the boisterous behaviour, [00:20:25] does that make sense? It was more like boys will be boys, that kind of thing, you know, which is quite [00:20:30] interesting.

Speaker4: Do you think it’s right that the label is controversial? The label is different [00:20:35] based on who it is that’s doing the thing, you know, like like. [00:20:40]

Speaker3: Yeah, like, go on, go on. Yeah.

Speaker4: Well, okay. Like, if a girl says [00:20:45] I was a tomboy. Yeah. Okay. What you think? What you say to that girl. [00:20:50] The way you label that girl is different to a boy. Just a boy. [00:20:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, why? I mean, there’s a difference, right? Let’s start with this. [00:21:00] Do you think it’s harder being a woman than a man? James O’Brien today. It’s on James O’Brien. [00:21:05] Today we.

Speaker3: Go. Really? What did he say?

Speaker4: He was like a shock. Horror. I can’t believe people think that it’s different. [00:21:10] It’s harder being a man than it’s.

Speaker1: I think it’s definitely harder to be a woman [00:21:15] outside.

Speaker4: Of childbirth, outside of children, just to put children completely, like, crop them out [00:21:20] of the picture. Yeah. To for a second. It’s harder to.

Speaker1: Be a woman, especially in the workplace, [00:21:25] for example, I think thank.

Speaker3: You.

Speaker1: From first hand. From first hand [00:21:30] I can I can tell you the amount of times that you’re, you’re not seemed as on the same level [00:21:35] when you’re in a group of a room with a group of men, you’re sort of looked down upon as your opinion [00:21:40] being you.

Speaker4: Work, you work at Rowena’s practice and there’s a guy who works there. Does she does [00:21:45] she treat you as if you’re not equal to that man?

Speaker1: No. Definitely not. I think it’s [00:21:50] I think it’s more, um. More, um, what’s the word? You know, in corporate, [00:21:55] I think it’s more in corporate settings. Um, you know, and you’re, [00:22:00] you know, you’re looked at as, you know, the receptionist or, you know, the receptionist should be a woman or the PA should be a woman. [00:22:05] Um, and it’s always, you know, the white men in the boardrooms and the women are outside. [00:22:10] Um, and I think it’s hard.

Speaker4: I think that’s a thing.

Speaker1: Now I do, and I do think that does [00:22:15] still happen today. I think I think there are women in in companies now. They are the reason. Just harder. [00:22:20]

Speaker3: I’m not looking right. I’m not. I wasn’t looking at my phone. I wanted to get you some stats. Right. I think it’s really [00:22:25] hard because I have this conversation a lot, even with my male peers and male colleagues, women. [00:22:30] And to be honest with you, Payman, because before I got here, he was like, I’m really worried about you, okay? And all this stuff. [00:22:35] I’m like, I struggle so much being a woman. And sometimes I actually feel a bit like [00:22:40] sad about it because I never thought it was that difficult. And I have to be honest with you, like growing up [00:22:45] with my dad, I was always like a very empowered female. Like, you’ve seen the way my dad is with me and my sister [00:22:50] and my my mom and everything like that. And I think in dentistry it’s so shocking [00:22:55] because what’s the stats? How many women are there compared to men? There’s a lot more.

Speaker4: Just not a lot more. It’s like 53%. [00:23:00]

Speaker3: So okay. And then out of that 53% in comparison, how many are [00:23:05] practice owners? How many of them like run their own thing, you know.

Speaker4: Lower than. [00:23:10]

Speaker3: Lower.

Speaker4: But yeah but that the reason for that listen.

Speaker3: Listen listen listen okay. So [00:23:15] the point is, is that I think that yes, of course, being a woman in [00:23:20] the UK is much better than being a woman in Iran, for example. Yeah, but let’s think [00:23:25] about all the things that are going like worldwide. Like, it’s so sad to think, even in Afghanistan, [00:23:30] that women are being stripped of their education. I know we’re not there. And women of Iran are being murdered [00:23:35] because they’re not wearing hijabs. Like, this is such a sad reality of the world as a whole. Yeah, within [00:23:40] the Western world we have made massive progress. But I still think there’s a lot of things that need to be [00:23:45] done. And I think that there is unfortunately, a little bit of a bias. I’ve even heard men [00:23:50] in the dental industry that say, well, yeah, of course, you know, men are going to be more suitable [00:23:55] to be in a boardroom than women because the reality is women have to have children [00:24:00] and then women have children. They have to take that time off and then the work suffers. [00:24:05] Now, you brought up the childbirth thing already, right? So I get it. I do get what you’re saying, and I understand. I want [00:24:10] to.

Speaker4: Talk about children as well. Yeah. But we starting with outside of children, is [00:24:15] it harder to be a woman in the workplace than a man? I think.

Speaker3: It’s harder being a woman in general.

Speaker4: But. [00:24:20] Well, why? Look. Yes there is. Look, my daughter was telling me three times a day she [00:24:25] has to worry for her safety as she walks down an alley. The thing is, I never considered that. Yeah, and [00:24:30] you know, if that’s a true thing. But listen, I get that.

Speaker3: But I get that. But listen here, like I’m just going to read [00:24:35] you like, this is McKinsey, right? I went on here. So McKinsey. Mckinsey have stated that women [00:24:40] represent roughly 1 in 4 C-suite leaders. And what. And women of colour just 1 [00:24:45] in 16 and saying massive progress needs to be um, massive progress needs to be [00:24:50] made. Made. Exactly. And microaggressions have a micro impact [00:24:55] reality. Microaggressions have a large and lasting impact on women. I tell you, as somebody who has suffered from [00:25:00] microaggression, it scars me and it damages me and it traumatises me. And [00:25:05] I have to sit there and be like, oh, well, don’t make a big deal of it when I know that what [00:25:10] has happened to me is a microaggression, and the way that I’ve been treated has been unfair.

Speaker4: Okay, [00:25:15] but there are certain things that being a man is hard. Totally, totally. You know, it’s [00:25:20] not like a.

Speaker1: I think as well. A lot of, um, men I’ve found are quite [00:25:25] intimidated by a woman, a successful woman. And that can also be a big thing.

Speaker3: And you [00:25:30] might not be paid. But the thing is, is that, for example, it’s really interesting because I might see an amazing [00:25:35] woman online. There’s a girl called Sarah, something she’s, I think, um, Kuwaiti [00:25:40] or she’s from Dubai or something, and she does loads of podcasts. You might have seen a hat, tattoos, [00:25:45] super attractive, lovely. She says, like really interesting, intelligent things. And she works in tech, [00:25:50] by the way, heavily male dominated and is very successful. And you’ll go on the comments and there’s all these men and [00:25:55] I know that there’s, you know, the internet’s the internet with all these men being like, oh, I hate [00:26:00] a woman like this has too much to say. Oh, there we go. Would be a headache. That’s why.

Speaker4: That’s the.

Speaker3: That’s [00:26:05] why we are. That’s why we all prefer younger women. And I’m.

Speaker4: A dick.

Speaker3: Yeah, but I [00:26:10] think.

Speaker4: I do think and there are sorry. There are dick women as well. You know what I mean? There’s good and bad people [00:26:15] around. Yeah. That’s just an idiot.

Speaker1: No, I don’t I don’t think that there’s many women that would comment on a guy [00:26:20] being like, oh, you know, oh, he needs to talk a little bit less like I think that is stereotypically [00:26:25] that does happen.

Speaker4: There’s lots of women who say things about men, right? You know, loads, [00:26:30] especially your generation. They love it. Right.

Speaker3: But the thing [00:26:35] is, is that I do agree with you, and I do think that there really lacks a strong and credible male [00:26:40] role model. I think we really lack good. Yeah. No, [00:26:45] no, but no, but but but what I was going to say was, is that I do feel sorry for men. I do, and I do think it’s hard to [00:26:50] be a young man.

Speaker4: But let’s talk about women. Let’s talk about women. This gender pay gap question. [00:26:55] Yeah. Do you feel it in your business? I don’t like in my business. If it was real [00:27:00] that I could hire women for less than men, I wouldn’t hire any men. Yeah, but I’ve got loads of men working for me. Yeah. [00:27:05] What’s going on.

Speaker3: There? Well, obviously it’s different. I own my own business.

Speaker4: Yeah. So your employees, do you [00:27:10] hire women on purpose? Because they’re cheaper than men?

Speaker3: No, no, I hire who’s good, but also I actually make [00:27:15] a conscious and active effort in my workplace that I have hired. Ellie knows [00:27:20] people from all different backgrounds, all different physicality. It [00:27:25] is so diverse. I’ve had TV channels approach me and say, we want to do a TV programme [00:27:30] about you and your clinic, and I’m like, okay, that’s really weird. They love what I do on social media, but they’re like, we [00:27:35] love what you represent in the clinic. Conversely, someone that I employed in my dental practice, she’s very attractive, [00:27:40] told me that her old boss said that he would only employ very good [00:27:45] looking Eastern Europeans because he wanted to give that vibe in his workplace. Now. [00:27:50] Okay, fine, that’s his own agenda. But that’s not really fair, is it?

Speaker4: Oh, nothing’s [00:27:55] fair, right? So if you’re if you’re if you’re hiring people because of their diversity. Yeah.

Speaker3: No, [00:28:00] I’m making.

Speaker4: You’re discriminating against other people who aren’t.

Speaker3: You didn’t have construed [00:28:05] that. You’ve misconstrued that. You kind of said that.

Speaker4: You said on purpose. I made an active I made a.

Speaker3: Conscious [00:28:10] decision to make sure that I give people of all colours, races, [00:28:15] sizes, etc. equal opportunities. Difference. I’m consciously just [00:28:20] like, I’m just going to hire them just because they’re non-binary or you know what [00:28:25] I mean? I’m hire. I’m making an active decision in my recruitment process to allow for people [00:28:30] of different physicalities backgrounds, etc., and I will employ people based on their merits and [00:28:35] their ability to do the job, whereas some people might subconsciously or consciously not interview [00:28:40] people.

Speaker4: I’ve done it myself. I’ve done it myself. If I’m being totally honest, I’ve done it myself. Okay, yeah. [00:28:45] Um, and you know, you walk into a top restaurant and a beautiful lady [00:28:50] is there greeting you. And you know, that wasn’t by mistake. You know, that was on purpose. [00:28:55] Yeah. Um, we hire models. We we hire salespeople. I’ve definitely done it. I’ve definitely done [00:29:00] it. Um.

Speaker1: I think we’ve. As a woman. Yeah. Like you think about all the things that, [00:29:05] you know, you’re brought up to, that you experience, you know, like from a young age, you’re sexualised, [00:29:10] you know, things like that happen, like, you know, from the age of 12 or 13, I get on the bus [00:29:15] and, you know, I’d have my ass slapped or something. And you just have to accept that. That’s a that’s a thing. Well, obviously you don’t. [00:29:20] But but things like that happen and you know, from young ages, you know, you you don’t realise what you’re doing. [00:29:25] But going to clubs in Mayfair when you’re, when you go, go up to London on a night out and [00:29:30] you’re queuing to go into a club and you’ve got a promoter and you’re all in your dresses, in heels [00:29:35] and you know, for some reason you’re getting in for free and then for some reason you’re getting on a table and then for some reason, [00:29:40] you’re getting free drinks all night and you’re like, you don’t actually stop for a moment and realise like, wait, why is this [00:29:45] happening? And I think females.

Speaker3: Are hyper sexualised from a young age. And if you think about it, even like Britney Spears, [00:29:50] we talk about it. I loved Britney growing up. She was 16 and hit me baby, one more time. Let’s just take that. [00:29:55] You’ve got kids. 16 and there were men in their 30s and 40s, like [00:30:00] going crazy over Britney Spears. And now Britney Spears is what, in like her 40s. [00:30:05] Now I think she’s in her 40s. I’m not sure. And you know, people are like, oh, she looks so gross. I’m like, she [00:30:10] doesn’t look gross. But, you know, at the end of the day, she was so young. And that goes for all of them. You [00:30:15] know, you watch the supermodel program with Cindy and Nicole.

Speaker4: The thing is, the flip [00:30:20] side of that sexualised thing is the oppressed thing. And [00:30:25] I’d much rather have sexualised than oppressed.

Speaker3: What do you mean when you think about your own country?

Speaker4: Just the flip. Yeah. You [00:30:30] know, uh, Iran. Anyway, I’m. You’re saying women are sexualised. [00:30:35] Yeah. All right, there’s that issue. You don’t want people sexualised only. Only sexualised. Yeah, [00:30:40] but the flip side of that is a is a place where women are held back [00:30:45] covered, you know, can’t, can’t dress as they want.

Speaker1: But why can’t women just be women? Why [00:30:50] has it got to be one or the other? Why do they have to be sexualised or oppressed? Why can’t they just [00:30:55] exist without feeling like one of those things is happening?

Speaker4: It’s a good [00:31:00] question.

Speaker5: Ha ha. It’s good. No.

Speaker4: But it’s a good question. Why do you think? [00:31:05]

Speaker1: I truly don’t know. I don’t know why.

Speaker3: I think that the value of a [00:31:10] woman is based on obsessed with women, literally. And I have to tell you that, like, [00:31:15] if I’m honest and transparent as I always am, I had a little bit of a panic attack this year [00:31:20] because I was like, oh my God, I’m going to be 37 this year. And I started feeling all this wrath of [00:31:25] judgement from society that hasn’t even happened yet. But it was like, I’m like, I’ve [00:31:30] not done enough. I’ve not had a kid yet, I’ve not done this. And I was like, I actually just got really upset [00:31:35] and I don’t know why. And I was like, I’m not good enough. And I was like, and it’s just such a sad feeling, [00:31:40] you know what I mean?

Speaker1: We have a time limit as women limit which men don’t have. You [00:31:45] can’t be. You have a kid. You have a kid.

Speaker4: We said, we said, this crop kids are okay, let’s crop kids back [00:31:50] in. Let’s let’s crop kids back in. Go on. Okay. I definitely agree that that [00:31:55] kids affect careers of women. They do? Yeah. Now you [00:32:00] can go two ways with that. You can say why should they? Why shouldn’t the man’s career be affected just as [00:32:05] much as the woman’s? I’m telling you, it’s just not the case. It’s just not.

Speaker3: But biologically, it can’t [00:32:10] be.

Speaker4: It’s just not the case. So then, are you suggesting that there should be a bias, [00:32:15] like, should women with children be paid more than women without children? And should women be paid [00:32:20] more than men? And then, you know, then where does it go. Right. Should, should, should, [00:32:25] should Simon Chard have a handicap in his pay because he’s getting benefit [00:32:30] from his height. Yeah. Do you mean it’s, you know, it’s not an equal playground [00:32:35] even within women. It’s not an equal.

Speaker3: Again, like we’re talking about like the societal [00:32:40] thing as well. Like for example, what should.

Speaker4: We do about it?

Speaker3: No. But like for example, you [00:32:45] said like coming from, you know, a sort of Iranian background, etc., you have [00:32:50] an ideal of like a female body type or like working in the or like living in the 90s. [00:32:55] No, we had this that we had this discussion and I don’t blame you. And it’s the same with my mom. And I’m sure it’s the same [00:33:00] with your parents. And it’s like you just said, like height is something that like, people are like, that’s amazing and [00:33:05] such a great thing, but like society created that. And if you look, it was really funny. Have you watched Saltburn?

Speaker4: I’ve [00:33:10] heard. No.

Speaker3: Yeah. So for example, there’s two. Yeah. Okay. There’s two main actors in it, a guy [00:33:15] called Barry Keoghan. Yeah, he is like basically Irish and I think he’s like five foot seven. [00:33:20] He’s not tall at all, came from like a really working class background. And then [00:33:25] the co-star in it is a guy that I’m obsessed with from euphoria, a guy called Jacob Elordi. I don’t [00:33:30] know if you saw me. I did a whole TikTok on him anyways, and he’s like six foot seven, for example. [00:33:35] They act together and it’s so funny. And Eddie was like, I just think Barry’s so much better looking and more attractive. [00:33:40] And I was like, oh my God, I love Jacob Elordi. But it’s funny how like now, like the great [00:33:45] thing is, is you were saying like we are, the more we start to be open to different things, like a man doesn’t need [00:33:50] to be six foot to be attractive. My fiance is not six foot, you know what I mean? He’s my height, you know? [00:33:55] So like I feel like. But we’re now understanding that like it actually comes in different shapes and [00:34:00] sizes. And although you may disagree like I know you don’t like love Kim K, for example, but she’s still [00:34:05] celebrated as one of the most beautiful women, and she broke the mould, like coming in and being like, I’ve got a [00:34:10] small waist, big hips. And people were like, wow, do you know what I mean? And like, despite that, I [00:34:15] think you’re saying like people shouldn’t. Society made this problem like it was just decided the tall, [00:34:20] white, blonde, blue eyed man was the thing, you know, like that [00:34:25] is like the chosen person. But in reality, that’s just a societal thing that was [00:34:30] put out. It’s not reality. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker4: Yeah, but so what?

Speaker3: But what I’m trying to say to you is when you’re [00:34:35] saying, like, should someone be punished for being that. No, they shouldn’t be punished, but we should be celebrating all the other differences.

Speaker5: Okay, [00:34:40] okay, okay.

Speaker4: But you know, we were talking about gender pay gap. Yeah. And is it harder [00:34:45] being a woman than a man. And you know, there are these odd areas where, you know, the strength, [00:34:50] muscle strength of a woman puts her in a disadvantage. Right. So, like we [00:34:55] were saying, down a dark alley, if there’s a guy behind you, you have to properly worry, whereas I don’t. I just [00:35:00] walk down. I don’t think about it. Yeah. So yes. That obviously. Yeah.

Speaker1: Yes [00:35:05] I could probably bench press. I could probably bench press more than, more than some [00:35:10] men.

Speaker5: Okay. All right, I hear you, I hear you.

Speaker4: But day to day in your job, in your life, [00:35:15] going and buying your coffee, asking people for money, putting things forward, [00:35:20] though, you know, I don’t feel my daughter is disadvantaged compared to my [00:35:25] son in the world. I don’t I don’t see it in that sense. Mhm.

Speaker3: Well, [00:35:30] I think you’re lucky. And let’s hope that your daughter never has to experience some of the things that we have to experience, [00:35:35] because I hadn’t experienced what I would call differences in gender until the last [00:35:40] three years, and I’ve been lucky enough not to have experienced what I thought. But I have. And I think [00:35:45] when you do, you recognise and unfortunate, as you said, Ellie said, but why can’t we just exist? [00:35:50] And I think in my experience now I’ve been like, oh, I’m being, I don’t want to [00:35:55] say used, but I’m only my value is only seen for like the way I look. Can like flogging [00:36:00] something, for example. Does that make sense? And that’s really hard as well, because it makes me [00:36:05] feel like my value will diminish once I get older or lose.

Speaker5: You know, super.

Speaker4: Successful, [00:36:10] right?

Speaker3: Yeah, but I’m.

Speaker4: Not only because of the way there are other pretty totally. There are other pretty dentists. [00:36:15]

Speaker3: Yeah, of course, he tells me all the time, I know that, yeah.

Speaker4: It’s just [00:36:20] there are other pretty dentists who are not achieving what you’re achieving. Yeah. So, you know, it’s not [00:36:25] just the way you listen.

Speaker3: I think we’re not going to sort out the gender pay gap. So I’m going to move on. Right. So so [00:36:30] okay. So I would describe you. You’re not only a social media manager, [00:36:35] but you’re also an entrepreneur. So can you tell us a little bit about the company that you’ve started, which is [00:36:40] Sia and how it was founded, what inspired you to start it and what was your vision behind it?

Speaker1: Yes. [00:36:45] So the company, the company that I founded is sirens social media marketing agency, [00:36:50] and that specialises in like personal branding. And because over the years working in social [00:36:55] media, I’ve just found that people buy from people and storytelling [00:37:00] is what is so important. So if you’re on there, um, on any social media channel talking [00:37:05] about your brand all the time, promoting a product, people just swipe on, they don’t care. But [00:37:10] if it’s people, it’s you that they want to get to know. So if you’re able to get into the hearts [00:37:15] of the people by showing who you are and talking about yourself, that’s the way that that’s the way that [00:37:20] you succeed on social media. And I think I just felt such a connection to that. And I was like, wow, there’s really something [00:37:25] here with personal branding and why was.

Speaker3: It TikTok over Instagram?

Speaker1: So I did originally work on other [00:37:30] channels I originally had. I originally was a social media manager for all channels, and I just [00:37:35] saw the growth on TikTok, the potential, the reach, um, and just how you’re [00:37:40] able to get into such into, you know, the hearts of billions of people. It’s the fast, one of the fastest [00:37:45] growing apps in the world, um, you know, almost 2 billion active users. So it’s very, [00:37:50] very, um, you know, growing at a rapid, rapid pace. So I just think the the [00:37:55] growth that I’ve seen and the potential on, on app, on and off app, um, is amazing. [00:38:00] And I think it’s so important now for everyone. Um.

Speaker4: Take us through maybe [00:38:05] three tips that are.

Speaker3: Before she goes into that though. How was siren born? Yeah. So [00:38:10] because I think one of the big jumps for people to start a business on their own, we’ve they know our story. But how did it happen [00:38:15] for you and at such a young age?

Speaker1: Yeah. So I’ve always loved social media. Always. Um, and I think, [00:38:20] um, it’s always something that I fell into. So, so when I did go to university, I ended up doing journalism. [00:38:25] Um, and I did print journalism, and obviously that was quite a dying industry. So [00:38:30] a lot, which is very sad. But yeah, a lot of, a lot of my degree focussed on, [00:38:35] um, marketing and online marketing and things like that. And social media was a small aspect of [00:38:40] that, and that was where I first understood what sort of marketing was, and I just fell and fell in love with it. And [00:38:45] I knew that was always something that I wanted to do. Um, and then, you know, that that finished [00:38:50] and the first kind of social media thing I got into was in lockdown. I started a candle business, [00:38:55] as everyone did. Yeah, on the side, a little side hustle in lockdown. And [00:39:00] apart from like selling to family and friends, I was like, how else am I going to, you know, get the word out about about this [00:39:05] candle business. And so I started up social media pages for it. So I started posting on Instagram [00:39:10] and, um, you know, then I got got into doing like advertisement, TikTok ads and, [00:39:15] um, social media ads and Facebook and Instagram and understanding what all that was. And I literally just taught myself. [00:39:20] And that was sort of how I really got into like social media thing. So yeah, then [00:39:25] I got my first job in social media, uh, from that. Um, but then, yeah, [00:39:30] I don’t want to obviously mention too many. I don’t want a specific mention.

Speaker3: About what’s.

Speaker1: Fine about [00:39:35] the situation.

Speaker3: Yeah, okay.

Speaker1: Go on. I’m trying to think how I can word it, like how I did it on my own.

Speaker3: Working for [00:39:40] another company, and then and then.

Speaker1: Realised I. Yeah, I can say actually, like, um, you know, throughout [00:39:45] school and everything, um, school and work after that, uh, where I had social [00:39:50] media, my first job in social media, um, like firstly from school being told [00:39:55] to that I was never good enough, that was never going to succeed, that I was too loud getting put on report card, [00:40:00] then going into, um, you know, working for other people. I think I always [00:40:05] had such a business mindset, you know, when I started my candle business. But then I was still working for other people, [00:40:10] and I hated that I was working my ass off for someone else’s [00:40:15] dream. I always hated that. So I knew I was I knew I was better than than [00:40:20] working for someone else. It’s absolutely fine with that. People do that and that’s absolutely fine. Do you think I just.

Speaker3: Feel like that [00:40:25] Payman that they don’t like working their asses off for other people’s dream or not? Do you think because.

Speaker4: It’s it’s the reason why [00:40:30] people start their own practices, isn’t it? Because it’s not necessarily about the the cash. [00:40:35] It’s about the control over what the thing is, right.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: And I think that’s [00:40:40] what I had. And that’s why I ended up, um, starting up siren. I just, you know, I always wanted to do something on my [00:40:45] own. I found my love of social media. I found my love for TikTok. And it got to a point where I was like, [00:40:50] I can do this on my own. And so, yeah. Then siren, would.

Speaker4: You get your first customers? [00:40:55]

Speaker1: Um, who are my.

Speaker5: Came to get [00:41:00] my teeth whitened. And so.

Speaker4: Were you. A dentist?

Speaker3: Actually, I’ll tell you now, what happened was, [00:41:05] is that for some reason, I got, you know, how you get all these generic emails and you’re like, you never respond. But for [00:41:10] some reason, I opened it and the email was literally like, we love your account. We’re a tick tock agency. [00:41:15] We help growth. La la la. We love everything you’re about. So I arranged then for a meeting with the company [00:41:20] that she was at, and then I was like, this is a massive punt. And by the way, it was a big investment. [00:41:25] Tick tock wasn’t that big at that time. It was still like a little bit early. It was just after lockdown [00:41:30] and then I just fell in love with Ellie, like everything about her. Like she was getting my receptionist [00:41:35] to do dance routines. She was like getting my staff members [00:41:40] to do, like, do you know what I mean? Like all that pointy stuff.

Speaker4: Your endodontist was telling me he trended.

Speaker3: Yeah, [00:41:45] yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you imagine? Like, I was even getting Aram, like, you know how specialists are, like, [00:41:50] I’m not doing any of that stuff. And they’re so scared of, like, the professor’s judging them. Yeah, but she got them. And I was like, wow, [00:41:55] this is incredible. And I was like, I need her in house. But the thing is, is that I would always I would never sort of want to box [00:42:00] someone up like she had to fly. And the thing is, is that she wanted to spread her wings and then the company that [00:42:05] she was with it, just like our visions didn’t align because as I said, like, and you know, with enlighten as well, [00:42:10] you either have a choice in business, like you become a big corporation and you lose [00:42:15] the personal touch and the personal relationships, or you stick with the personal people and continue [00:42:20] harnessing those relationships. And the beautiful thing about enlighten is, you know, is that you like that personability, you know, whereas like [00:42:25] your competitor brands are like about the big number at the end, for example, you know, so I think that [00:42:30] and they don’t necessarily they just care about volume necessarily companies.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker3: Yeah. But to be honest, [00:42:35] and that’s the thing that’s like with Chelsea Dental, people are like, do you want 40 Chelsea Dental don’t really want that because I like, [00:42:40] like that special touch that we give people. So as her human touch. And then when she started [00:42:45] her own thing, I was like, right. You know, I was like, I need to find her again. Um, I [00:42:50] need to find her again. And I did. And then Ellie and I started working together, and I recommended [00:42:55] her to all of my, um, friends, and they were, like, astounded [00:43:00] by the growth that they’ve had on social media. And it makes your life so easy. Payman. Because [00:43:05] all of the scripts, all of the posts, everything trending on one page, [00:43:10] done in a day, that’s it. You know what I mean? You know.

Speaker4: So when when you started [00:43:15] TikTok, when was it? What was it? Was there a particular video that [00:43:20] made you think, I can do this? Um, and also what how much of [00:43:25] it is science and how much of it is art?

Speaker1: That’s actually a very good question. So to answer the first [00:43:30] one, I think, um, what was the first one again?

Speaker4: Was there a particular video you made that trended? [00:43:35]

Speaker1: So I think the first one that we did with the first one that we did with [00:43:40] you, with the things that dentists can tell about your mouth.

Speaker3: Oh, that trended, [00:43:45] you know what I’m talking about.

Speaker1: We did too. So we did one with Sarah. And I think that got [00:43:50] that got to like 3.5 million. And then we did one with you. We did a part two because it [00:43:55] did so well. And that got to about 9 million or something. And it was a bit like, oh my gosh, okay. But [00:44:00] I think it’s not, it’s it’s not just the views. Tiktok isn’t just about the views. It’s about building [00:44:05] a community and a loyal community. And, you know, people coming in the comments and like, so yeah, [00:44:10] it’s great to go viral, but to be able to have that community and the people that follow you and come back for [00:44:15] each post and comment and interact and save and share, that’s what is so [00:44:20] great about it. And I think it’s not just the on app consequences, it’s the off app consequences too. So, [00:44:25] you know, you can do a really good video and then you open up the, um, you know, your news tab [00:44:30] on your, on Google and you’re, you’re in okay magazine.

Speaker3: Not just Stewart bags. [00:44:35] They, they did a thing called vaping tongue. Stewart was contacted by like six different national newspapers [00:44:40] and asked to go on the radio about vaping.

Speaker1: Radio vape.

Speaker4: Vape is one of those trending subjects, [00:44:45] isn’t it?

Speaker5: Yeah. Vaping people want to send.

Speaker4: It to people to say stop vaping.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: So all that [00:44:50] kind of stuff and, you know, brand partnerships that come from it and it’s it’s not just about the views [00:44:55] and going viral.

Speaker4: But so let’s talk about the science part and the art part. So, you know, in [00:45:00] my crappy little knowledge is all right. First three seconds. Yes.

Speaker1: So the first three seconds. Yeah.

Speaker4: Very important [00:45:05] I noticed when when you do your vids you don’t start with hi I’m Rona. You never start with [00:45:10] the hook. Exactly.

Speaker3: So she always gives me the hook and the negative hook because we want to tell our audience like a.

Speaker5: Like [00:45:15] a.

Speaker4: Sensational hook. So you’ll say something like, can your teeth make you [00:45:20] sexier than you are? Like, that would be the hook. Yeah, whatever. Whatever it is.

Speaker3: Or I think three things I would [00:45:25] never do.

Speaker5: As a dentist.

Speaker3: Says the negative, negative, the negative.

Speaker1: Numbers, they all work very [00:45:30] well. And then you come in with your authority. So the three seconds are the most important. You have [00:45:35] three seconds. Tick tock. The people. Yeah. Scroll exactly. They have no attention span. [00:45:40] So you have three seconds to grab them. But you also don’t want to grab them like in a clickbaity way where it’s like, [00:45:45] um, you know, oh, I’ll say something really important and then not and exactly. And then not follow up with it. So [00:45:50] saying that big hook, um, talking about what it is, introducing who you are, why [00:45:55] are you an authority to give me this piece of knowledge? Um, and then. So keeping them hanging for [00:46:00] a bit longer because the five to second seven second mark is just as important as the three seconds. [00:46:05]

Speaker4: So for the reach.

Speaker1: Yes, exactly. So yes, get them at the three seconds. But then you need to follow it up. So [00:46:10] give them the three the three second hook. Follow it up with who you are and why you’re an authority. Give [00:46:15] them a little bit more information about what you’re going to chat about and then go into, you know, your three things.

Speaker4: And [00:46:20] so I’d call all of that the science. Yeah. What about what about the art.

Speaker1: And the art? The art I guess [00:46:25] that’s the creativity side. So what’s trending and what are people talking about this week? What’s happening in [00:46:30] the news. So for example, um, you know, I did a video with a couple of clients the other week about, um, [00:46:35] Kylie Jenner showed up to the red carpet extremely naturally done with her makeup. [00:46:40] Um, you know, and everyone was talking about how her filler looked so bad. Filler was basically she looked really bad. [00:46:45] Um, and that had just happened. And I jumped on that with a client, um, Doctor [00:46:50] Divine, uh, he actually did it. Um, he did it off the back of my me and another client. So I actually did this with, [00:46:55] um, a separate client, and we jumped on it, and she, she does facial aesthetics, and she’s [00:47:00] basically spoke about how, um, Kylie Jenner has definitely had, like, under-eye filler. It could be a few other [00:47:05] things, but I think this is what it is. And we jumped on it because it was trending and it overnight got to [00:47:10] 2 million views overnight. Everyone talking about it in the comments, everyone sharing about it. So you know it’s [00:47:15] being reactive. It’s all about jumping on things that are um, on trend and being reactive. [00:47:20] And I always say for TikTok, you need to show up and you need to talk about three different. [00:47:25] It needs to you need you need to either fall into three different categories. You either need to entertain, educate [00:47:30] or, um, provide emotion. And I think the audience needs to get [00:47:35] something, get one of those three things from your video for it to do well and for it to speak to people. So you’re either, you know, [00:47:40] doing something really, really funny that’s hilarious and going to go viral and be silly. You’re going on to educate, which [00:47:45] is normally what I do with my clients. You know, they all have something to say. They all have a piece to educate about. [00:47:50] Um, or you need to draw out the emotion and that always does well the storytelling, the pulling at the heartstrings. [00:47:55] You know, you’re very good at that kind of side.

Speaker3: So one thing was obviously [00:48:00] like when I sent Ellie a couple of clients, they’re incredible dentists, really [00:48:05] talented. But, um, they were getting frustrated that they weren’t getting viral. And it was also [00:48:10] like they were too obsessed with the way other professionals would perceive [00:48:15] them. Yeah. Does that make sense? Which I think is a challenge. And it’s like, you know, I’ve got like Doctor Rona Academy now [00:48:20] and loads of like my students are amazing, um, young women and like a lot of them [00:48:25] come to me because they feel like they could relate to me and talk to me about certain things. And it’s really interesting because I’m like, have you started [00:48:30] an Instagram? And they’re like, no, I’m really scared. And I’m like, start the first post with [00:48:35] like a photo of yourself explaining who you are. Like, think like decide on a logo. Do you know what’s the one [00:48:40] thing that holds them back? Dentists from starting social media? Guess what it.

Speaker5: Is other.

Speaker4: Dentists seeing [00:48:45] their work.

Speaker3: They worried about the judgement. The judgement of what other people will think of their [00:48:50] page.

Speaker1: Yeah, that is a massive thing. That’s that’s a big thing that you see that clients. Oh, 100%, [00:48:55] 100%. That’s probably the biggest thing. I actually did a TikTok video myself about the one thing. [00:49:00] What is the one thing that’s holding people back from succeeding on TikTok? And it is themselves and not being able to get [00:49:05] over the cringe or get over the fact that they’re scared that that’s going to flop. And for me, I’ve just [00:49:10] always been that kind of person where it’s like, just post it, like, just fuck it and post it. Yeah.

Speaker3: That’s right. [00:49:15]

Speaker1: Um, just like, just post it. So what? It flops. So what, you get 300, 300, [00:49:20] 400 views, you show up again and you post again. And that is what’s so important. The consistency [00:49:25] showing up and posting. And if you can’t get over that cringe, you’re not going to succeed on TikTok. [00:49:30] You’re not going to do well.

Speaker4: You know what though, Bruno? Yeah. When I saw you start doing TikTok, I was I [00:49:35] wasn’t aware of you today.

Speaker3: But she wasn’t in the picture at the beginning. Maybe.

Speaker5: Yeah, but.

Speaker4: I [00:49:40] took my hat off to you. Yeah. Because, you know, it’s difficult when you’ve got 100,000 followers [00:49:45] on one platform to go on to another platform where you haven’t got many followers and [00:49:50] fail day after day after day and keep going. Yeah, I was.

Speaker3: Literally on like ten views and at [00:49:55] that time going.

Speaker5: At it, making more and more and more.

Speaker3: Dog doctor shady was [00:50:00] like killed it because she was like one of our the dentists first on it and she like grew astronomically overnight. [00:50:05] Like she was the one that started like the turkey teeth sort of chat. Yeah. Um, but I was and I was like, I hate [00:50:10] TikTok. So Gen Z, it’s not me. But then I was like, self-limiting belief. And also [00:50:15] like, are you being a bit competitive? Like, you’ve just got to go on and can I tell you now, I way prefer TikTok than Instagram because there’s [00:50:20] less dentists on there and there’s less of that trolling and that like weirdness on there as well.

Speaker5: Well, I.

Speaker4: Prefer [00:50:25] it as a consumer.

Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker5: Think it’s much better.

Speaker4: So the algorithm is it’s on.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: There’s [00:50:30] something about the algorithm isn’t it.

Speaker1: Yeah. It’s the algorithm is ever changing. But the how [00:50:35] do.

Speaker3: You keep up with.

Speaker1: It. So yeah, anyone that tells you that they know the algorithm or [00:50:40] they’ve cracked the algorithm is lying to you. You cannot crack the algorithm. You don’t know what the algorithm is, but [00:50:45] you can learn to adapt to it and grow with it and understand it. Um, [00:50:50] but essentially everyone’s algorithm is different. You know, what you see on your for You page is the thing that gets you all addicted. [00:50:55] So, you know, if you watch a video about dogs. And you watch the video all the way [00:51:00] through, from beginning to end. Tick tock goes straight away. Wow, they loved that video because they [00:51:05] watched it all the way through. So they’re going to start showing you more videos about dogs. If you comment [00:51:10] on the video and tag someone oh my god, check out this dog video or you share it again. Same thing [00:51:15] and you keep doing it. Things like that. So all this kind of engagement that you’re doing is telling tick tock [00:51:20] and telling the algorithm, oh, I really like that piece of content. So you’ll start seeing more of it and more of it. And [00:51:25] that’s how it gets so addictive. Um, so yeah, but the algorithm for everyone is different, [00:51:30] and it all depends on how you engage with specific content as to what you’re going [00:51:35] to see on your for you page. So yes, you can’t crack the algorithm, you can’t understand it.

Speaker4: But one of the things [00:51:40] is it defaults to the for you page. Yeah. Whereas Instagram doesn’t. Yes [00:51:45] Instagram has it discover right?

Speaker1: Yes.

Speaker4: The explore page doesn’t doesn’t. Yeah. Default [00:51:50] to it. So you might go there. Yes.

Speaker1: But I think um for me I that’s [00:51:55] why I, I love um sort of tick tock for top of the reach top of the funnel [00:52:00] marketing because Instagram for me is more about community and how you’ve got your followers and you post [00:52:05] what you’re up to and it’s lovely and it’s it’s very filtered and people can click on it and like it. [00:52:10] Whereas Tick Tock is completely raw, completely unfiltered, completely new. You’re [00:52:15] you’re defaulted to that for you page. You’re going to see things you’ve never seen before from videos.

Speaker3: But I also think [00:52:20] Gen Z are a little bit just more sassy as well as in like, I think that they like to be involved in lots of [00:52:25] different issues and have lots of different opinions, and I.

Speaker5: Think [00:52:30] it’s.

Speaker4: Still a Gen Z platform.

Speaker1: No, it’s not really.

Speaker5: Every all of.

Speaker4: My friends are on [00:52:35] it.

Speaker5: My buddies, the biggest.

Speaker1: Growing age group is like the 25 to 30s in both male and male and female. [00:52:40] Yeah, that’s like the biggest interesting. Um, yeah. There’s like it’s a very, very fast growing. [00:52:45] It’s. Yeah, definitely naive to say it’s still, you know, that dancey Tik Tok platform for [00:52:50] 18 year olds.

Speaker3: I remember those days like during lockdown. Yeah. Horrendous.

Speaker1: It’s not anymore as.

Speaker4: As [00:52:55] a, as a force for evil. So we can see as a force for good. Fine. Yes. [00:53:00] But one thing that happens to me is I go into this like death hole.

Speaker5: Yes. The rabbit hole scroll. [00:53:05] Yeah.

Speaker4: And and time just goes. Yeah. And I worry for my kids, [00:53:10] like my daughter’s not allowed it, but she’s found it on, on on YouTube anyway. Yeah. I mean YouTube shorts, [00:53:15] YouTube shorts.

Speaker5: It’s like, it’s like.

Speaker4: A crappy version of so but but you know, what does it do [00:53:20] to people’s mental health?

Speaker1: Yeah, I think any, any, any consumption of social [00:53:25] over consumption of social media is not good. I think, you know, that can be said for any social [00:53:30] media platform, not just TikTok. I think Instagram is just as damaging. It does. And the average [00:53:35] watch time is about 1.5 hours a day, so it is crazy.

Speaker3: The good [00:53:40] thing is, the good thing is about Ellie managing my TikTok. I spend a lot, lot, a lot longer on Instagram. [00:53:45] Whereas like every now and then I’m like, oh, Ellie’s just posted, let me see how that video’s done. But [00:53:50] I don’t spend hours and hours on it. Do you see what I mean? Like every now and then I might go, but I don’t get into [00:53:55] I get more into a scrolling. And also the messaging service on TikTok is [00:54:00] like a lot less. Yeah, it’s weird. So you can’t be asked, as in, like with Instagram, you can do a whole like just replying [00:54:05] to DMs situation. Yeah. Um, I want to ask you as well, do you think timing matters? Because [00:54:10] you know how people get obsessed not only with what they post, but the time they post as well? Is that important? [00:54:15]

Speaker1: No, I don’t think that’s important at all on TikTok. I’ve tried all the different times I’ve tried, ahm, [00:54:20] I’ve tried 6 p.m.. Yeah, 1 p.m., 6 p.m. I normally do, um, and [00:54:25] it doesn’t make a difference. If it’s a good piece of content, it’s going to do well. It doesn’t matter when you post [00:54:30] it. A lot of people’s, um, follower time that they’re most active is normally around 10:11 p.m. [00:54:35] because they get into bed and they’re scrolling. So people think, oh, I’ll post around 10:11 p.m. [00:54:40] because that’s when my audience is all on. But TikTok doesn’t work like that. The algorithm is slow. It can take [00:54:45] two days for a video to start popping up on people’s for you pages just because something’s [00:54:50] just been posted. When it when your followers were active, doesn’t mean it’s instantly going to do well and blow up.

Speaker5: So [00:54:55] is there a.

Speaker4: Frequency, the number of posts a day?

Speaker1: That is so people I’ve seen a lot of people [00:55:00] that are on TikTok say you need to be you need to be posting 3 to 4 times a day to do well. You know, you need to [00:55:05] be posting 3 to 4 times a day. I don’t think that that’s true. Um, I my clients, for example, you know, we [00:55:10] post like once a day or once every weekday and they still do extremely well, [00:55:15] more like go way more viral and have way more followers and have way more engaged of an engaged community. [00:55:20] Then I think.

Speaker3: When it.

Speaker1: Started, yeah, maybe.

Speaker3: When it started, not now, but.

Speaker1: Now [00:55:25] I don’t think. I think as long as you’re consistent, whether that’s, you know, showing up every day or as much [00:55:30] as you can, it’s I think it’s not taking those big breaks, you know, posting every day and then falling [00:55:35] off for two weeks because you can’t be bothered.

Speaker4: About the fact that, like when something comes up on my on [00:55:40] my thing that I like, right, I’m not going to immediately follow them. I’m going to go on to their page [00:55:45] and see if there’s more of that. Yeah. And if there is more of that, I might follow them. Yes. But [00:55:50] what that means is you end up doing to be successful. You could be quite narrow. Yep. [00:55:55]

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: That’s because if I, if I, if she says something. I like, and then I go on to a page [00:56:00] and there isn’t much else of her talking. Yeah, then I’m not going to follow that [00:56:05] page. And it means, like tactically, you’re sort of limiting each page to [00:56:10] a small amount of things. Is that right?

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker3: Well, we tried this as well, like I said to Ellie, because, [00:56:15] you know, I’m like obviously passionate about like fashion and things like that. I was like, oh, I really want to [00:56:20] do like those like, you know, styled with me and get ready with me. And like we did a few [00:56:25] and some of them did okay, but they really didn’t do as well as my Dental ones. And [00:56:30] she was like, listen, we’ve placed you as an educator. That’s why people like your page. We [00:56:35] can’t go too off piste just because you want to do it. And it’s interesting because Shivani said the same as well, [00:56:40] because when I said finally, like you’ve just thrown in 100,000 followers on Instagram, I was like, it’s amazing. She’s like, [00:56:45] oh, I’m not that bothered. She was like, you know, video is going viral. Doesn’t lead to me having more subscribers on [00:56:50] YouTube or like Spotify, which is where I’m looking for it. She’s like, because it’s a video that went viral. She’s [00:56:55] like, whereas I need people. She’s like, the reason you convert to a follower is if someone sees [00:57:00] your piece of content and then they go on your page and they’ll only follow you if they think that your page will provide [00:57:05] value. Just because they’ve interacted with your video doesn’t mean it will, like turn into a follower. [00:57:10] Does that make sense? You know, so I think it’s like important that you understand it’s that typical [00:57:15] thing. Simon Sinek know your why. Why are you building this page 100%?

Speaker1: It’s essential [00:57:20] to have a niche. You don’t want a niche down too much to to like an extreme niche, but [00:57:25] you don’t want to be too broad where you’re like tapping into different things. You’re not going to get followers because people are like, [00:57:30] I’m not interested in this. What are they even posting about? However, if you’re providing a specific amount of value [00:57:35] on a certain topic that people are interested in, you’re going to get that follower base. And [00:57:40] so it’s important to stay consistent and stick and stick within your niche like we’ve tried other things. [00:57:45] And it can work. And it’s good to show other aspects but always come back to that [00:57:50] niche, I think. And that’s I think what’s important to keep that consistency.

Speaker4: Tiktok influencers, are they different to, [00:57:55] you know, you’d imagine Instagram classic pretty girl influencer. Yeah. Oh it’s a different type [00:58:00] of influencer right.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker1: Because I think again, it’s that whole, you know, Instagram is all about being pretty and filters [00:58:05] and editing. And there are on TikTok.

Speaker3: I’ve seen stunning girls promote makeup.

Speaker1: Yeah, it’s more but I think it’s more [00:58:10] about, um, storytelling. Whereas Instagram, you know, you post a video. Yeah, you might do a reel, [00:58:15] but I think for TikTok it’s more unfiltered. It’s more, you know, vlogging style. Come with me today. [00:58:20]

Speaker3: There’s a girl I follow in, uh, um, New York, and she always tell us how funny dating [00:58:25] stories, and she’s, like, doing her makeup. She’s beautiful and she’s literally. So everyone asks me about [00:58:30] the dating app Raya. So I’m going to give you my opinion on Raya, but she’s also doing her makeup. And people [00:58:35] in the comments are like, where’s your foundation from? Like.

Speaker4: I even follow someone you know, she speaks [00:58:40] really quickly. Do you know her? Mad, mad, mad mad. She talks really [00:58:45] quickly, but she’s doing her makeup and she’s talking about some dates she’s been on.

Speaker5: Oh yeah, and they probably.

Speaker1: Talk about how they’ve [00:58:50] got five minutes to get ready.

Speaker3: As well. She does. Those stars don’t take chance literally.

Speaker1: That’s actually the number [00:58:55] one. Um, the number one most loved type of video on TikTok is the get ready with me one night. [00:59:00]

Speaker5: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker1: So getting ready and chatting. People love it because you’re, you know, you’re telling maybe [00:59:05] a fun story, but then you’re also getting ready and people love to like, find out where your makeup is from and all that kind of stuff. And [00:59:10] it’s storytelling again.

Speaker5: Do you think.

Speaker4: You know Instagram? We know what Dental Instagram is. [00:59:15] Yeah, there’s before and afters. There’s yes, there’s there’s sort of um, [00:59:20] you know, pictures, videos, you know, dentist educating. But we’re not really [00:59:25] sure what Dental TikTok is. You know, there aren’t you know, there’s who’s been [00:59:30] successful on TikTok. Shardae.

Speaker5: Laura.

Speaker4: Laura you little right. You’ve got to put yourself [00:59:35] in it for foodie dentist.

Speaker3: She’s she surged.

Speaker5: Yeah.

Speaker4: Who else. But you know what I mean. If I’ve [00:59:40] got a dental practice and I want a dental practice TikTok page. Are we just [00:59:45] talking dental.

Speaker3: We’re on 21 K now. I know.

Speaker4: But are we just talking? But it’s got to be the [00:59:50] same thing. Education from the dentist? No, no.

Speaker3: Because for example.

Speaker5: It was it wasn’t. It’s not clear [00:59:55] yet. It’s very clear in Instagram.

Speaker3: No, no it has to be. That’s the thing. That’s why Ellie is so great. And that’s why, like Payman, you and I are [01:00:00] very similar in the fact that we’ve always invested in these types of services. A lot of dentists [01:00:05] don’t want to invest in these services. They’re like, why would I pay someone to do this? They don’t see the [01:00:10] value in it. But like for example, the Chelsea Dental one everyone loves like our receptionist, our [01:00:15] TCO. So she does these videos with them, for example, showing their personality but.

Speaker4: Not teeth, right? [01:00:20]

Speaker3: No teeth as well. We show.

Speaker5: Everything afters.

Speaker3: Yeah, we’ll talk about it.

Speaker5: Do them in a different way.

Speaker1: Yes [01:00:25] we do. We normally do like a green screen that sort.

Speaker5: Of pointing to that.

Speaker1: Thing, like showing that the images behind Stuart’s. [01:00:30]

Speaker3: Work, this is Anna’s cleaning, do you know what I mean? But it will also like there’s one of my favourite [01:00:35] videos, Mary, my receptionist, who everyone loves. She gets all these dental tools and she’s like, Mary, [01:00:40] guess I’ll have to show you later. So she takes out the mirror and Mary’s like mirror. She gets out a probe and she’s [01:00:45] like, oh, she’s like, she’s like something to do with the hygienist, you know what I mean? It’s really funny, [01:00:50] really. People like watching that because it’s really funny.

Speaker1: But I what the reason why I love TikTok [01:00:55] for like dentists and in the dental world is I just think they’re. Is people are obsessed with [01:01:00] teeth, teeth whitening, bonding, veneers like people want to see the results. People [01:01:05] want to know, like what they can do at home. Um, to Hashtag Teeth Talk has got over [01:01:10] 3 billion views. Really? Yeah. It’s crazy. When I first did you know that teeth talk. I always used that that [01:01:15] in my videos. And, you know, when I first started it was on maybe like a few million. It’s now on about 3 billion views. [01:01:20] People searching for that, that hashtag turkey.

Speaker3: Teeth is like turkey.

Speaker1: Teeth. You know, when you do a video [01:01:25] about turkey teeth. Oh my gosh, the virality.

Speaker3: So how dangerous do you think it is for your business [01:01:30] not to have social media? One and number two not get on board with TikTok? [01:01:35]

Speaker1: Yeah, I think it’s essential for businesses now to be on TikTok. Both of them. [01:01:40] Both. Um, I think, you know, it’s TikTok is where everyone is at now. Like that [01:01:45] is the platform where everyone is at. If you’re going to be, you know, doing paid ads, for example, then [01:01:50] do them on TikTok. Facebook is dead for paid advertisements. So if you’re doing ads on Facebook, [01:01:55] it’s like, fine. But I think on TikTok, you know, being able to implement, [01:02:00] um, into the sort of TikTok style. So, you know, whether you’re using the TikTok influencers, as [01:02:05] you mentioned before, you know, using your product in their morning routine.

Speaker3: I literally did a parlour video that got [01:02:10] 8 million views organically. 8 million. I’ll never forget that. And why? Because [01:02:15] that cheek retractors and that was my hook, you know.

Speaker1: See, you’re you’re you’re you’re acclimatising [01:02:20] to the TikTok platform. You’re doing.

Speaker5: Something that a lot.

Speaker4: Of stuff off.

Speaker5: Really?

Speaker1: Yeah, [01:02:25] really. I’m a bit of a TikTok shocker.

Speaker5: Really?

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker4: It’s frictionless as well. [01:02:30] Like from from deciding to buy it. To buy it. It’s like one button and it arrives here.

Speaker5: You get a buyer’s [01:02:35] remorse.

Speaker4: A lot of it’s crap.

Speaker5: A lot of.

Speaker4: It is crap somehow. Yeah. And that’s the thing, [01:02:40] you know, is there a is there room for saying, hey, this thing isn’t crap, I’m selling it on TikTok, [01:02:45] you know?

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely I yeah.

Speaker3: Well, it’s been really insightful [01:02:50] having you today. Thank you so much for coming on and telling us about your journey. But I know Payman wanted [01:02:55] to ask you, um, earlier, and I think it’s a really good way to end. What are the three top things that [01:03:00] you would tell people listening about TikTok if they want to get started or if [01:03:05] they want to understand it?

Speaker1: So I would say number one is to be consistent. [01:03:10] So I think I mentioned a few of these points before. But consistency is key on TikTok. So showing [01:03:15] up whether you’re showing up once a day, if you really want to show up 3 to 4 times a day, great. It’s not [01:03:20] going to make much difference if you show up once or 3 or 4 times, but showing up and staying consistent, [01:03:25] not dropping off, um, getting over that cringe or getting over that fear [01:03:30] of I’m not going to do well. And that’s that’s the biggest, biggest thing that is holding people back [01:03:35] is I’m too scared. I’m too scared. Just fucking post it. Yeah. And and if it [01:03:40] doesn’t do well. So what you go back to the consistency, you show up and you post it again. Um, [01:03:45] and number three I think is this three tips for doing well on TikTok. I think engagement [01:03:50] is key as well. So, um, engaging with your your following and [01:03:55] the people on on the platform. So if you do a post, don’t just come off the app. Um, you know, go [01:04:00] onto your For You page, scroll through, have a look at what other people are doing. You know, whether it’s other people in your niche [01:04:05] or not. Um, interact with them. Click comments. Um, you know, like [01:04:10] it? Make a comment. You know, then they’re likely to click onto your profile and have a look. Oh, who’s this person that’s just [01:04:15] commented? Even if it’s not a viral video, even if that person’s just posted it and they’ve not got many [01:04:20] views, be the first person to comment on their video. Show them that you’re interested. Oh, this is a really cool video, [01:04:25] I love it. Um, thanks for the tips. You know, something like that. Um, so engaging. If you’ve got [01:04:30] comments, answer all the comments. Don’t just leave your followers hanging if someone’s commented on your video, [01:04:35] this is a great video. Say thank you. So interacting because they’re more.

Speaker5: Likely courtesy. [01:04:40]

Speaker4: That courtesy side of it as as sort of like like.

Speaker5: Instagram I. [01:04:45]

Speaker1: Think so Humanises you. Yeah, I don’t think I mean, some of.

Speaker3: Them are crazy. Like when I did the Jacob Elordi [01:04:50] video, this person commented and said, uh, bit gross. Aren’t you old enough to be his mum [01:04:55] or something like that? I would have to be ten years old if I had him as a child, you know what I mean? Like, that’s the kind of. [01:05:00]

Speaker5: Stuff the hate of. Is the hate.

Speaker3: Different? No, it hates worse on TikTok.

Speaker5: Yeah. You can get a lot of.

Speaker3: Melissa’s wardrobe was [01:05:05] like, it’s horrendous. Yeah.

Speaker5: The hates words.

Speaker1: Can get you can get a lot of hate. But that’s the thing I think [01:05:10] if it’s if it’s hate to a like a very, very bad level, then we can like remove the comments. [01:05:15] However, if it’s just a bit of hate, I think it’s great to have it on there, like interact with them as [01:05:20] well and show them why they’re there. Comment is hateful, you know. Don’t hide that. Hide away those negative [01:05:25] comments because you’re always going to get things like that. I think it’s important to keep that, keep them up. [01:05:30] Um, you know, unless they’re obviously very, very bad, I think it’s important to keep them up and, you know, interact [01:05:35] with them and play a bit with them as well. You know, if they say a stupid comment, make an even more stupid [01:05:40] comment back, and you start getting love from the people that follow you, that do like you, that kind of back you up [01:05:45] and it keeps the engagement going. Just thank them. Thank them for giving me the engagement. Thanks for your comment. [01:05:50] You’ve just helped boost my video to hundreds more people.

Speaker3: Yeah it’s true.

Speaker5: So yeah. Interesting. There [01:05:55] we go.

Speaker3: So thank you so much Ellie.

Speaker1: Thank you.

Speaker3: Think you’re mate. I think you’re amazing. And for dentists [01:06:00] that are scared to take that plunge, as I said, I have a fully paid service with Ellie. I bring her on because [01:06:05] I genuinely think she changed my life and managed my managers to continue to manage [01:06:10] my social media and just really like, brings the fun and energy to the team. So hope you [01:06:15] found that useful. As I said, her agency’s siren agency and you can follow her on TikTok [01:06:20] too as Ellie Bratt, thank you so much. Thank you guys.

Speaker5: Thank you.

Speaker1: Bye. [01:06:25]